Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[[GlassNerves] via Freedos-user]

Good talk and tips, thank you all. I will test the mentioned methods soon.

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--- Original Message ---

Em domingo, 13 de fevereiro de 2022 às 3:20 PM, Ray Davison 
 escreveu:

> Ray Davison wrote:
>
> > [GlassNerves] via Freedos-user wrote:
> >
> > > Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?
> >
> > You all work much too hard. When things were in transition I had
> >
> > multiple DOS as well as "DOS based" Win all on a single 2G FAT 16 at the
> >
> > front of the drive.
> >
> > You just need a real boot manager. I did it with System Commander. All
> >
> > I did was a normal install of each OS. I did not need to fiddle with
> >
> > anything. SC did all that for me.
>
> And, when Win got it's own OS, I gave them their own partition, but
>
> there was/is only one primary: FAT 16 at the front. Every OS/2 and Win
>
> is on a logical, including W7.
>
> My desk tops all have two Win. two OS/2, and FreeDOS. My laptops have
>
> two W7.
>
> Ray
>
> Freedos-user mailing list
>
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Ray Davison]

Ray Davison wrote:

[GlassNerves] via Freedos-user wrote:

Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?



You all work much too hard.  When things were in transition I had 
multiple DOS as well as "DOS based" Win all on a single 2G FAT 16 at the 
front of the drive.


You just need a real boot manager.  I did it with System Commander.  All 
I did was a normal install of each OS.  I did not need to fiddle with 
anything.  SC did all that for me.


And, when Win got it's own OS, I gave them their own partition, but 
there was/is only one primary: FAT 16 at the front.  Every OS/2 and Win 
is on a logical, including W7.


My desk tops all have two Win. two OS/2, and FreeDOS.  My laptops have 
two W7.


Ray





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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Ray Davison]

[GlassNerves] via Freedos-user wrote:

Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?



You all work much too hard.  When things were in transition I had 
multiple DOS as well as "DOS based" Win all on a single 2G FAT 16 at the 
front of the drive.


You just need a real boot manager.  I did it with System Commander.  All 
I did was a normal install of each OS.  I did not need to fiddle with 
anything.  SC did all that for me.


Ray


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Björn Morell]

Yes, when booting to Freedos (or DrDos) it wll be C: and my W95 will be 
D: and a logical partiton E:


booting to W95 it will be C: and freedos/drdos will be D: and te logical E:

booting to linux it will be on hd1 (swap on hda2 and backup on hda3) and 
freedos on hb1 and drdos on hb2 and w95 on hdc1


Den 2022-02-12 kl. 13:02, skrev Liam Proven:

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 01:52, Travis Siegel  wrote:

Not true.

Sometimes true.


If both of the partitions are primary partitions, and the bootable flag is 
swapped from one to the other, then when one boots, the second will be drive 
d:, and vice versa.

It depends on the OSes in use.

The formal DOS schema is:

[1 primary and then one extended containing multiple logical drives] x per drive

Letter allocation is complicated:
DOS and DOS-based OSes:
[1] iterate through physical drives assigning letters to primary
partitions in drive order, starting at C
Then
[2] iterate through all logical drives on each drive assigning letters

So if there is:

1:[(primary){extended(logical 1)(logical 2)}]
2: [(primary){extended(logical 1)(logical 2)}]

Then you will get this:

1:[(primary C:){extended(logical 1 E:)(logical 2 F:)}]
2: [(primary D:){extended(logical 1 G:)(logical 2 H:)}]

Drive letters are not in physical drive sequence.

Note: there is only 1 permitted primary per drive.

If you have >1 visible primary per drive, Win NT 3-4 would fail with a BSOD.

Win95B and on, which support FAT32, might handle it, but might also
fail to boot. I've never managed to pin down all variations.

Win2K could handle it but would BSOD if the partitions were not in
numerical order:

1:[(primary){extended(logical 1)(logical 2)}] <- fine, works
1:[(primary){extended(logical 2)(logical 1)}] <- BSOD on boot-up

XP could handle it.

Vista and on dump all the old DOS-based logic and use a new system.

But DOS is tricky these days. Many people have extracted "MS-DOS 7.1"
from Win98 and use it standalone. I *think* these variants *can*
handle >1 visible (unhidden) primary, but I have a suspicion that the
old FAT16-only versions can't.

But you're not meant to do this; it wasn't in the DOS design.
Additional primaries were for non-DOS OSes with formats that DOS can't
read: back then, Netware, Xenix, etc.

It may work in later versions, but I advise against totally relying on it.




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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Bret Johnson]

>> The problem with this approach is that the programs are almost
>> never on C:, and they may not be on D: either.  The way I manage
>> that is to set myself up an S: ("System") drive which is where the
>> programs are located.  I use whatever tools I have available in the
>> DOS I'm using to do that (usually SUBST or SWSUBST, but e.g. in
>> DOSBox I need to use MOUNT).  I have the programs and batch files
>> set up to assume S: instead of C: for the default drive.
>>
>> That's probably too complicated of a setup for most people, but is
>> how I do it.
>
> Aha. That's a good idea. Thank you -- I may try that.

Just as an FYI, if you're going to do something like that, as you're booting 
you'll also want to set up environment variable(s) to indicate which VM you're 
in and possibly which version/manufacturer of DOS you're using.  You may need 
that in some of the batch files since there are certain times when things work 
a little differently depending on the operating environment.

The main one that pops to mind right now is that I have a batch file called 
ETHERNET that sets up the LAN packet driver.  When I'm running in "real" DOS, 
the driver that needs to get loaded is the one for the real NIC in the 
computer.  In a VM the NIC is always virtualized, and exactly which NIC is 
virtualized varies by VM.  The ETHERNET.BAT file looks at the environment 
variables to determine which packet driver to load.  The ETHERNET.BAT file will 
also unload the packet driver if it is unloadable (some are and some aren't).

I know I have a few other batch files where the operating environment makes a 
difference, though most of the time it doesn't matter.  The main VM I have a 
problem with sometimes is DOSBox, since it's actually a Virtual DOS rather than 
just a Virtual Machine, so (among other things) not all of the DOS internal 
structures are there which causes problems with some programs.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Liam Proven]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 01:52, Travis Siegel  wrote:
>
> Not true.

Sometimes true.

> If both of the partitions are primary partitions, and the bootable flag is 
> swapped from one to the other, then when one boots, the second will be drive 
> d:, and vice versa.

It depends on the OSes in use.

The formal DOS schema is:

[1 primary and then one extended containing multiple logical drives] x per drive

Letter allocation is complicated:
DOS and DOS-based OSes:
[1] iterate through physical drives assigning letters to primary
partitions in drive order, starting at C
Then
[2] iterate through all logical drives on each drive assigning letters

So if there is:

1:[(primary){extended(logical 1)(logical 2)}]
2: [(primary){extended(logical 1)(logical 2)}]

Then you will get this:

1:[(primary C:){extended(logical 1 E:)(logical 2 F:)}]
2: [(primary D:){extended(logical 1 G:)(logical 2 H:)}]

Drive letters are not in physical drive sequence.

Note: there is only 1 permitted primary per drive.

If you have >1 visible primary per drive, Win NT 3-4 would fail with a BSOD.

Win95B and on, which support FAT32, might handle it, but might also
fail to boot. I've never managed to pin down all variations.

Win2K could handle it but would BSOD if the partitions were not in
numerical order:

1:[(primary){extended(logical 1)(logical 2)}] <- fine, works
1:[(primary){extended(logical 2)(logical 1)}] <- BSOD on boot-up

XP could handle it.

Vista and on dump all the old DOS-based logic and use a new system.

But DOS is tricky these days. Many people have extracted "MS-DOS 7.1"
from Win98 and use it standalone. I *think* these variants *can*
handle >1 visible (unhidden) primary, but I have a suspicion that the
old FAT16-only versions can't.

But you're not meant to do this; it wasn't in the DOS design.
Additional primaries were for non-DOS OSes with formats that DOS can't
read: back then, Netware, Xenix, etc.

It may work in later versions, but I advise against totally relying on it.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Björn Morell]

Hmm.

 I have two  primary partitions, Freedos and DrDos on a drive and only 
the active one is visible.


 I have 3 drives, first one has Damn Small Linux and LILO as boot 
manager second has Freedos and Drdos and the third Windows 95 (with Lite 
Step shell).


In DSL I can mount them all, booting to Freedos I can see Windows but 
not DrDos, if I boot to DrDos I can see Windows but not Freedos.


I have not tried regular fdisk though only xfdisk there one activates or 
deactivates and Show and Hide in fdisk there is only activate or 
deactivate so that could work, I guess you have to run fdisk and 
rebooteach time you want to change though.




Den 2022-02-12 kl. 01:50, skrev Travis Siegel:


Not true.

If both of the partitions are primary partitions, and the bootable 
flag is swapped from one to the other, then when one boots, the second 
will be drive d:, and vice versa.  I used to use the fdisk method all 
the time, I dual booted linux, and dos, so I see no reason why it 
wouldn't work with windows and dos as well.  Obviously,, I couldn't 
access the linux partition from dos, because it didn't read the linux 
file system, but linux had no trouble seeing the dos partition, and 
another friend I had used dos/windows (as requested in the original 
post), and that worked just fine, he could see both drives no matter 
which os he booted.


Obviously, I've not tried this in years, but I see no reason why 
things would have changed in this regard.



On 2/11/2022 5:08 PM, Björn Morell wrote:


If you want to access one from the other you cannot as it will be 
hidden, for that to work you need separat drives or the coplcated 
method, if not xfdisk on a bootable floppy or usb will be handy while 
installing.


Den 2022-02-11 kl. 22:14, skrev [GlassNerves] via Freedos-user:

Thanks for the answers guys. I see i have a lot of options.
I don't wanna to install FreeDOS in the same partition of Windows 98 
because this is complicated as hell. I will make two partitions and 
will be using the xfdisk method.


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--- Original Message ---
Em sexta-feira, 11 de fevereiro de 2022 às 2:36 AM, [GlassNerves] 
 escreveu:

Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Travis Siegel]

Not true.

If both of the partitions are primary partitions, and the bootable flag 
is swapped from one to the other, then when one boots, the second will 
be drive d:, and vice versa.  I used to use the fdisk method all the 
time, I dual booted linux, and dos, so I see no reason why it wouldn't 
work with windows and dos as well. Obviously,, I couldn't access the 
linux partition from dos, because it didn't read the linux file system, 
but linux had no trouble seeing the dos partition, and another friend I 
had used dos/windows (as requested in the original post), and that 
worked just fine, he could see both drives no matter which os he booted.


Obviously, I've not tried this in years, but I see no reason why things 
would have changed in this regard.



On 2/11/2022 5:08 PM, Björn Morell wrote:


If you want to access one from the other you cannot as it will be 
hidden, for that to work you need separat drives or the coplcated 
method, if not xfdisk on a bootable floppy or usb will be handy while 
installing.


Den 2022-02-11 kl. 22:14, skrev [GlassNerves] via Freedos-user:

Thanks for the answers guys. I see i have a lot of options.
I don't wanna to install FreeDOS in the same partition of Windows 98 
because this is complicated as hell. I will make two partitions and 
will be using the xfdisk method.


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--- Original Message ---
Em sexta-feira, 11 de fevereiro de 2022 às 2:36 AM, [GlassNerves] 
 escreveu:

Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?

Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.




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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Liam Proven]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 00:28, Bret Johnson  wrote:
>
> Even in Virtual machines, I always set up very small "boot drive" (usually 
> only a few MB) as C:.  It only contains the things required to boot and a few 
> basic utilities (including a simple text editor).

Yep, when I was putting in Windows NT boxes on customers' networks,
that's what I did too. Handy for BIOS reflashing, emergency recovery
and so on. I usually tried to make it big enough to hold the swap file
-- that reduced fragmentation on the NT system drive, and also FAT16's
big clusters make for good swapfile performance (faster than NTFS or
FAT32).


> All of the useful programs are on a separate drive (usually D:, but it 
> depends on the specific environment).  That way I only need to manage one 
> copy of all the programs and can use them consistently no matter how DOS 
> booted.

Good plan.

> The problem with this approach is that the programs are almost never on C:, 
> and they may not be on D: either.  The way I manage that is to set myself up 
> an S: ("System") drive which is where the programs are located.  I use 
> whatever tools I have available in the DOS I'm using to do that (usually 
> SUBST or SWSUBST, but e.g. in DOSBox I need to use MOUNT).  I have the 
> programs and batch files set up to assume S: instead of C: for the default 
> drive.
>
> That's probably too complicated of a setup for most people, but is how I do 
> it.

Aha. That's a good idea. Thank you -- I may try that.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Bret Johnson]

> Small primary FAT16 partition with FreeDOS. Bigger primary FAT32
> partition with Win9x. Then an extended partition, with some logical
> drives in it, which will be visible to both.

Even in Virtual machines, I always set up very small "boot drive" (usually only 
a few MB) as C:.  It only contains the things required to boot and a few basic 
utilities (including a simple text editor).  All of the useful programs are on 
a separate drive (usually D:, but it depends on the specific environment).  
That way I only need to manage one copy of all the programs and can use them 
consistently no matter how DOS booted.

The problem with this approach is that the programs are almost never on C:, and 
they may not be on D: either.  The way I manage that is to set myself up an S: 
("System") drive which is where the programs are located.  I use whatever tools 
I have available in the DOS I'm using to do that (usually SUBST or SWSUBST, but 
e.g. in DOSBox I need to use MOUNT).  I have the programs and batch files set 
up to assume S: instead of C: for the default drive.

That's probably too complicated of a setup for most people, but is how I do it.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Liam Proven]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 23:09, Björn Morell  wrote:
>
> If you want to access one from the other you cannot as it will be hidden, for 
> that to work you need separat drives

Not really, no.

Small primary FAT16 partition with FreeDOS. Bigger primary FAT32
partition with Win9x. Then an extended partition, with some logical
drives in it, which will be visible to both.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Björn Morell]

If you want to access one from the other you cannot as it will be 
hidden, for that to work you need separat drives or the coplcated 
method, if not xfdisk on a bootable floppy or usb will be handy while 
installing.


Den 2022-02-11 kl. 22:14, skrev [GlassNerves] via Freedos-user:

Thanks for the answers guys. I see i have a lot of options.
I don't wanna to install FreeDOS in the same partition of Windows 98 
because this is complicated as hell. I will make two partitions and 
will be using the xfdisk method.


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--- Original Message ---
Em sexta-feira, 11 de fevereiro de 2022 às 2:36 AM, [GlassNerves] 
 escreveu:

Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[[GlassNerves] via Freedos-user]

Thanks for the answers guys. I see i have a lot of options.
I don't wanna to install FreeDOS in the same partition of Windows 98 because 
this is complicated as hell. I will make two partitions and will be using the 
xfdisk method.

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

--- Original Message ---
Em sexta-feira, 11 de fevereiro de 2022 às 2:36 AM, [GlassNerves] 
 escreveu:

> Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Liam Proven]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 18:17, Bret Johnson  wrote:
>
> I still have a computer (not hooked up to a keyboard or monitor any more) 
> which uses an old commercial program called System Commander.

I remember that. It was pretty good, yeah.

I was a PowerQuest fan back in the day, so for many years I used
PowerQuest BootMagic. It came with PartitionMagic, but it was also
made freeware at some point and featured on a few magazine cover CDs.

E.g. there seems to be a copy here, but I haven't tried it.
https://powerquest-bootmagic.software.informer.com/

Do run a virus scan though!

The config tool runs under DOS, so you need a DOS bootable partition
to change its settings. It needs to run from FAT, too, but FAT16 or
FAT32 will both do. It can hide and unhide partitions so incompatible
OSes can live side-by-side. It worked with PC and DR DOS, Linux,
BeOS/Haiku, Oberon A2/Bluebottle, and some other things I've thrown at
it -- OS/2 2/3/4, NT up to about XP, and so on.

I think I even had DOS and Win9x side by side using it. I think it
predates Vista and BCD boot so it might struggle with that.

It's my personal favourite, but System Commander was also very capable.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Bret Johnson]

I still have a computer (not hooked up to a keyboard or monitor any more) which 
uses an old commercial program called System Commander.  System Commander would 
let you load several different versions of DOS on the same C: drive.  I think I 
have about 10 different versions of DOS on the same C: partition (different 
versions of MS-DOS, PC-DOS, DR-DOS, etc.).  I don't remember the exact details, 
and I don't remember if it works with FreeDOS, and it would be a hassle to get 
the system booting again to see exactly what all I have on it.

What System Commander does is make copies of the hidden system files needed to 
boot (IO.SYS & MSDOS.SYS or IBMBIO.COM & IBMDOS.COM), along with COMMAND.COM, 
CONFIG.SYS, & AUTOEXEC.BAT for each version of DOS.  When you boot, you select 
from the System Commander boot menu exactly which version you want to load and 
it does all the manipulation of the hard drive needed to accomplish that 
(backups and copies the necessary files) and then finishes booting.  If you're 
wanting to experiment with several different versions of DOS, I found that the 
best program to use.

Since you're only wanting to experiment with two DOS versions, you probably 
don't need anything as sophisticated as that.  Something like Eric's METAKERN 
might work (I've never used it), or the other suggestion of using two separate 
partitions would also work but you would probably also want some kind of boot 
manager to go along with it.  IIRC the Ranish Partition Manager would let you 
build/manipulate the partitions and also provided a simple boot loader.

I personally use a commercial program called BootIt to manage my booting with 
DOS, Windows, and sometimes Linux.  I know lots of people use *nix utilities 
GRUB or LILO but I have never used those myself.  I also know there are other 
boot managers available out there but haven't used any of them.

Bottom line is that you can do it and there are several ways it can be done, 
and you'll get lots of opinions on the "best" way to do it.  I wouldn't suggest 
doing it the way I do (with commercial programs), though.  I use commercial 
programs because at the time (many, many years ago) the available free programs 
really didn't do what I needed.  I think you can find something free today to 
do what you want.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Björn Morell]

H !

How about making 2 partitions on the drive  and use xfdisk to make the 
partitions whitch have a boot  manager that hide and shows desired 
partition  ? Install Freedos and xfdisk on the first and then hide it 
and instal windows on the second.




Den 2022-02-11 kl. 09:40, skrev Eric Auer:


Hi!


Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?


It is possible, but not easy to install. Both Win98 and FreeDOS
can use the same FAT32 C: drive, so you need a boot sector side
boot menu such as my "metakern". You can also use a MBR style
boot menu which alternately hides one of two FAT partitions,
but I have no experience with that.

To install, you first have to install Windows 98. Then you need
a tool to make a copy of the Windows boot sector and store that
as a file. I think you can use options of our SYS tool to achieve
that. Also make a backup of your config.sys, then install FreeDOS.

Metakern is then used together with the backup of your Windows
boot sector to create a "kernel" file and you use FreeDOS SYS
to change the boot sector of your C: drive to one which loads
that "meta-kernel".

Booting C: will now open a menu where you can either continue
to boot FreeDOS or switch to booting Windows. You have to use
FDCONFIG.SYS for FreeDOS (if it finds one, it will use that
instead of CONFIG.SYS, so the latter stays free for Win98: If
the FreeDOS installer has overwritten the Windows config, you
can rename the FreeDOS config and copy back your backup of the
Windows config). Also, your FDCONFIG.SYS SHELL line has to say
that you want to use FreeDOS FreeCOM instead of command.com of
Win98 with a FreeDOS batch file other than AUTOEXEC.BAT, so you
can keep the latter free for Win98 use.

If anything goes wrong, simply use our SYS to copy your backup
of the Win98 boot sector over the C: boot sector, so you remove
the menu and boot directly into Win98 again. As mentioned, make
sure to backup your config.sys, autoexec.bat, command.com and
boot sector BEFORE you install FreeDOS. So in case any of them
gets overwritten, you can rename the FreeDOS version and copy
back the Windows version.

Regards, Eric

PS: Metakern can aloso offer to continue booting into WinNT/XP/...
or Linux primary partitions if it detects those in the MBR. Patching
the FreeDOS boot sector in RAM, it should be able to work from any
partition where FreeDOS works, but SYS may have started to show some
incompatibilities at any time since 2003. Use at your own risk :-)





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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[Eric Auer]

Hi!


Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?


It is possible, but not easy to install. Both Win98 and FreeDOS
can use the same FAT32 C: drive, so you need a boot sector side
boot menu such as my "metakern". You can also use a MBR style
boot menu which alternately hides one of two FAT partitions,
but I have no experience with that.

To install, you first have to install Windows 98. Then you need
a tool to make a copy of the Windows boot sector and store that
as a file. I think you can use options of our SYS tool to achieve
that. Also make a backup of your config.sys, then install FreeDOS.

Metakern is then used together with the backup of your Windows
boot sector to create a "kernel" file and you use FreeDOS SYS
to change the boot sector of your C: drive to one which loads
that "meta-kernel".

Booting C: will now open a menu where you can either continue
to boot FreeDOS or switch to booting Windows. You have to use
FDCONFIG.SYS for FreeDOS (if it finds one, it will use that
instead of CONFIG.SYS, so the latter stays free for Win98: If
the FreeDOS installer has overwritten the Windows config, you
can rename the FreeDOS config and copy back your backup of the
Windows config). Also, your FDCONFIG.SYS SHELL line has to say
that you want to use FreeDOS FreeCOM instead of command.com of
Win98 with a FreeDOS batch file other than AUTOEXEC.BAT, so you
can keep the latter free for Win98 use.

If anything goes wrong, simply use our SYS to copy your backup
of the Win98 boot sector over the C: boot sector, so you remove
the menu and boot directly into Win98 again. As mentioned, make
sure to backup your config.sys, autoexec.bat, command.com and
boot sector BEFORE you install FreeDOS. So in case any of them
gets overwritten, you can rename the FreeDOS version and copy
back the Windows version.

Regards, Eric

PS: Metakern can aloso offer to continue booting into WinNT/XP/...
or Linux primary partitions if it detects those in the MBR. Patching
the FreeDOS boot sector in RAM, it should be able to work from any
partition where FreeDOS works, but SYS may have started to show some
incompatibilities at any time since 2003. Use at your own risk :-)





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[Freedos-user] Dual Boot winth Windows 98

[[GlassNerves] via Freedos-user]

Using only one HD, is this possible or can cause some conflit?

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot FreeDOS + WINDOWS ?

[Thomas Desi]

Hi Eric, 

inspired by your mail (and also help from others in the list! Thank you, 
folks!) I did the following: 

- I made a simple check of booting times:
(startup when I hit the computers power button till the moment the 
system is working)

FreeDOS starting from HD23 sec
FreeDOS starting from USBstick  16 sec (this is inside my editor - 
autostart - and I can type already into a text!)

Windows7 fresh install  59 sec (but not in the editor)

So I did the following:

- install Windows 7
- resize/format a separat 200 MB FAT partition (called „FDOS“)

Now I can do the following:

+ hit the computer POWER ON and start working 16 seconds later (FreeDos, 
Text-Editor)
+  d:(change drive to see the „FDOS“ partition on the HDisk)
+  COPY (or MV) files from the Stick to the HDisk or back
+ save directly to the FDOS partition on the HDisk when in my editor

…and obviously do all stuff (printing!) when I boot into Windows7

This is working nicely for me. No rocket science but a working system.
Looking at the  endless problems I encountered with trying to solve the USB/HD, 
printing issue,  the hard way (which I wouldn’t be able to do anyway)
I am quite happy with this configuration. 

Regarding the boot-time of 16 secs this is even better than booting from HD 
which doesn’t give me any advantage anyway.
So if my FreeDOS bootingstick might become corrupt one day, I just have a copy 
at hand. Files are either on HD or separate Discs save.

Thanks for your suggestions and help, 
- Thomas


> Am 18.04.2021 um 22:25 schrieb Eric Auer :
> 
> 
> Hi Thomas,
> 
>> A dual boot Windows+FreeDos would be absolutely my preferred system...
> 
> Can your Windows version resize itself? Can it create a FAT partition
> for DOS in some other way? Then I think you should do that, maybe
> already copy the contents of the DOS install disk there and boot
> the DOS installer. In the installer, you can now skip the step of
> partitioning and formatting the harddisk and just tell it to use
> the FAT partition as install target. If your Windows itself uses
> NTFS partitions, the FAT partition will be the only one visible
> to DOS and it will be used as C: by DOS after install. It might
> have another drive letter during install if C: is already used by
> the install CD or USB stick, of course.
> 
> Obviously, you should only use a Windows version of which you have
> a license. If that is not the case, it probably is not worth the
> effort to install ANY Windows at all. You can just dual-boot with
> DOS and Linux then and let your Windows apps run in Wine on Linux.
> 
> If you want a dual-boot system with Windows and Linux, the same
> strategy as above should work: Use Linux to resize itself, or
> maybe easier, tell it to create a FAT partition for DOS already
> while you install Linux. Then boot the DOS install disk (CD, DVD
> or USB stick) and tell the installer to use that FAT parttiion,
> without FDISK changing partitions and without formatting.
> 
> I have no idea what XP embedded can do or cannot do, but when
> in doubt, it probably can do a lot less than Linux, because it
> sounds like a stripped-down version of XP and XP is very old.
> 
> Regards, Eric
> 
> PS: The FAT partition for DOS should be a LBA partition and it
> must be a primary (not extended / logical) partition, because
> it is complicated to configure DOS to boot properly otherwise.
> 
> You need to keep that in mind when making / resizing partitions,
> but it should be quite feasible with GPARTED in Linux or maybe
> with built-in or 3rd party tools of more modern Windows versions.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot FreeDOS + WINDOWS ?

[Eric Auer]

Hi Thomas,

> A dual boot Windows+FreeDos would be absolutely my preferred system...

Can your Windows version resize itself? Can it create a FAT partition
for DOS in some other way? Then I think you should do that, maybe
already copy the contents of the DOS install disk there and boot
the DOS installer. In the installer, you can now skip the step of
partitioning and formatting the harddisk and just tell it to use
the FAT partition as install target. If your Windows itself uses
NTFS partitions, the FAT partition will be the only one visible
to DOS and it will be used as C: by DOS after install. It might
have another drive letter during install if C: is already used by
the install CD or USB stick, of course.

Obviously, you should only use a Windows version of which you have
a license. If that is not the case, it probably is not worth the
effort to install ANY Windows at all. You can just dual-boot with
DOS and Linux then and let your Windows apps run in Wine on Linux.

If you want a dual-boot system with Windows and Linux, the same
strategy as above should work: Use Linux to resize itself, or
maybe easier, tell it to create a FAT partition for DOS already
while you install Linux. Then boot the DOS install disk (CD, DVD
or USB stick) and tell the installer to use that FAT parttiion,
without FDISK changing partitions and without formatting.

I have no idea what XP embedded can do or cannot do, but when
in doubt, it probably can do a lot less than Linux, because it
sounds like a stripped-down version of XP and XP is very old.

Regards, Eric

PS: The FAT partition for DOS should be a LBA partition and it
must be a primary (not extended / logical) partition, because
it is complicated to configure DOS to boot properly otherwise.

You need to keep that in mind when making / resizing partitions,
but it should be quite feasible with GPARTED in Linux or maybe
with built-in or 3rd party tools of more modern Windows versions.



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[Freedos-user] Dual Boot FreeDOS + WINDOWS ?

[Thomas Desi]

Hi Eric, thanks for the great reply (again!)

Yes, indeed, this sounds very interesting:  (and maybe also to other folks, to 
work with,  try or get to know FreeDOS.)

> On Sun,20210418- week15, at 21:01, Eric Auer  wrote:
> 
> So depending on how much you want
> it, we could write some howto about how to create a dual
> boot system with Linux (or Windows) 

A dual boot Windows+FreeDos would be absolutely my preferred system for some 
reasons. 
(I guess I could access files created on FreeDOS applications also from 
Windows. Excellent!)

I am ready to start right away to reformat the HD if I could boot DOS or WIN!…
(The only question for me, what Windows to use… and where to get it. Another 
one of those silly questions! Sorry… but windows is everywhere and nowhere)

I have another HP »thin client« (from 2007) with "XP embedded" installed (no 
hd, only flash memory inside). I wonder if »XP embedded« could be used? (MS 
offers a free download 
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=26558). Is this usable?

Best regards, looking fwd what’s coming next, 
- Thomas



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[Freedos-user] dual boot

[Nils Stavlid]

Hello,
just created a FAT32 partition (alongside NTFS partition with windows xp
installed) and installed FreeDOS 1.1 from CD on that partition. However,
I´m unable to get to boot FreeDOS, win xp jumps in every time. Since I´m
totaly newbie I´m hoping for someone to help me out...

Best regards & Happy new year!
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Re: [Freedos-user] dual boot

[Felix Miata]

Nils Stavlid composed on 2016-01-02 20:52 (UTC+0100):
,
> just created a FAT32 partition (alongside NTFS partition with windows xp
> installed) and installed FreeDOS 1.1 from CD on that partition. However,
> I´m unable to get to boot FreeDOS, win xp jumps in every time. Since I´m
> totaly newbie I´m hoping for someone to help me out...

Your Windows XP boot.ini file needs an entry added for your FreeDOS so that
you'll see a boot selection menu after POST completes. Start with
http://best-windows.vlaurie.com/boot-ini.html and if that's not good enough
try http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/install-doz-after.html
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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot

[C. Masloch]

 Maybe you should reread what I wrote previously:

Right, sorry. I didn't look into that.

 grub root (hd0,0)
 grub setup (hd0,0)
 grub quit

I thought you were referring to how to *load* FreeDOS from within GRUB,  
considering how that was the topic previously. But that's of course  
installing (legacy) GRUB, presumably into a different partition then the  
primary partition that you boot FreeDOS from.

Using sys c: is indeed easy (using whatever letter currently represents  
the primary partition to boot) (more to the point would be sys c:  
/bootonly, or sys c: bootsect.bin /bootonly for chainloading the file  
and leaving the current boot sector alone), assuming you booted into a DOS  
to use the usual FreeDOS SYS.

So this set-up again has a requirement (of booting into a DOS first) that  
the GRUB 2 freedos command method doesn't have. But you would be right  
in now asserting now that the current FreeDOS installer needs that anyway,  
so overall installation might be easier using GRUB legacy. To clarify,  
switching from GRUB legacy to GRUB 2 for just one minor feature wouldn't  
be worth it usually too; I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

And there's another (definitive) disadvantage of GRUB 2: it has a slightly  
less compatible licence, GNU GPL v3+ instead of v2+. Even if one prefers  
v3, it does lessen compatibility.

Regards,
Chris

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[Freedos-user] Dual boot

[Marcos Favero Florence de Barros]

Hi,

I have a couple of friends who would like to run DataPerfect
databases in their Linux and Windows computers.


   -- Linux: I tried DosEmu, but could not make it work
  correctly with the accents (diacritics) of the Portuguese
  language. Don't know if the problem is keyboard- or
  display-related. I experimented a lot with the DosEmu
  configuration file and FDConfig.sys, but with no results
  so far.

  Is DosEmu actually capable of working with Portuguese
  diacritics and supporting a standard Brazilian keyboard in
  the first place?

  And if DosEmu can't do it, would dual boot (Grub) be a
  good idea? I read the announcement in July that Grub 2.00
  supports FreeDOS.


   -- Windows: Has the same problem with diacritics. I suppose
  there is a way of configuring that, but I'm not overly
  anxious to start struggling with Windows.

  Again, would dual boot be a good idea? If so, what could I
  use? Metakern?


My personal preference would be dual boot, but I wonder whether
it would bring its own problems. Those are other people's
computers, which I don't want to mess up.

Marcos


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Campinas, Brazil




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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot

[C. Masloch]

   Is DosEmu actually capable of working with Portuguese
   diacritics and supporting a standard Brazilian keyboard in
   the first place?

It's probably possible, but it might require configuring dosemu more, or  
maybe even patching dosemu's source.

   And if DosEmu can't do it, would dual boot (Grub) be a
   good idea? I read the announcement in July that Grub 2.00
   supports FreeDOS.

GRUB 2 indeed supports loading FreeDOS, which just means you can directly  
specify the kernel.sys file to load instead if needing to chainload a  
FreeDOS boot sector. With the current kernel and current GRUB versions,  
you still need to install FreeDOS into a primary partition, though.

   Again, would dual boot be a good idea? If so, what could I
   use? Metakern?

GRUB is possible, too.

 My personal preference would be dual boot, but I wonder whether
 it would bring its own problems. Those are other people's
 computers, which I don't want to mess up.

In older PCs, idling was not regarded as necessary; with 1990s and more  
recent (powerful) CPUs proper idling is important.

Therefore you should enable the idlehalt= setting in the FreeDOS kernel's  
config, and/or load FDAPM with some setting. [One of them might suffice,  
but using both shouldn't be particularly harmful even if unnecessary.]  
fdapm apmdos (optionally prepend lh ) should result in the highest  
savings (though it might decrease performance a bit).

Failure to enable proper idling will cause one CPU (that is at least one  
core on multi-core CPUs) to permanently be 100% loaded in polling loops,  
wasting energy and heating up the CPU a lot. Even with FDAPM and such,  
some applications' polling loops disable idling - custom patching might be  
necessary to implement proper idling then.

Regards,
Chris

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot

[Felix Miata]

On 2012-09-18 18:32 (GMT-0300) Marcos Favero Florence de Barros composed:

And if DosEmu can't do it, would dual boot (Grub) be a
good idea? I read the announcement in July that Grub 2.00
supports FreeDOS.

So does Grub Legacy, which is much simpler to install, configure and 
maintain. It requires minimal space, no scripts, and doesn't harrass you if 
you want to keep compatible legacy code on your MBR. Don't go out of your way 
to get Grub2, just accept it along with your Linux distro if it gives you no 
choice. The main people who need what Grub Legacy does not support are those 
requiring EFI boot, using HDs  2TB, or using RAID.

Again, would dual boot be a good idea?

I've been multibooting about 20 years, with DOS on a 1st HD primary included 
in most cases. It's really not difficult to set up or use any DOS version via 
multiboot.
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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote:
Again, would dual boot be a good idea?

 I've been multibooting about 20 years, with DOS on a 1st HD primary included
 in most cases. It's really not difficult to set up or use any DOS version via
 multiboot.

Vista and 7 let you resize the native NTFS partition (which typically
uses the whole physical drive). But they changed the boot manager, so
you'd have to grab (third-party, freeware-ish) EasyBCD or similar to
configure it (if and only if you've backed up your data and installed
others properly).

It might be easier to just set up a VM. Or find out why DOSEMU doesn't
work with KEYB (dunno).

You have to be very careful not to overwrite the MBR or mess up the
partition table. Dual boot (etc) is easiest with a clean computer
and physical install media (CD-ROM, floppy, etc).

Oops, almost forgot Rufus, you can install FreeDOS (or MS-DOS) to USB
and boot that:

http://rufus.akeo.ie/

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot

[C. Masloch]

 I read the announcement in July that Grub 2.00 supports FreeDOS.

 So does Grub Legacy, [...]

As opposed to GRUB 2, it additionally needs setting up the correct boot  
sector file (to be chainloaded from GRUB for loading the kernel), which is  
possible using FreeDOS's SYS.

There's a fork called GRUB4DOS which includes easier FreeDOS kernel  
loading similar to GRUB 2.

Regards,
Chris

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot

[Felix Miata]

On 2012-09-19 00:58 (GMT+0200) C. Masloch composed:

 I read the announcement in July that Grub 2.00 supports FreeDOS.

 So does Grub Legacy, [...]

 As opposed to GRUB 2, it additionally needs setting up the correct boot
 sector file (to be chainloaded from GRUB for loading the kernel)

grub root (hd0,0)
grub setup (hd0,0)
grub quit

Oh so difficult, as opposed to the shenanigans, and 5-10 times the HD space 
sprawled across several directories and/or partitions, required to make Grub2 
work. Not knowing more about specific user requirements, Grub2 to boot DOS is 
a classical example of gross overkill.
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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot

[C. Masloch]

 grub root (hd0,0)
 grub setup (hd0,0)
 grub quit

 Oh so difficult,

That also requires the boot sector to /already/ be set up correctly, just  
in the partition itself this time =)

 shenanigans, and 5-10 times the HD space sprawled across several
 directories and/or partitions, required to make Grub2 work.

I don't disagree that apart from this one feature, GRUB 2 might be more  
complicated to install or whatever.

Regards,
Chris

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot

[Felix Miata]

On 2012-09-19 02:05 (GMT+0200) C. Masloch composed:

 grub root (hd0,0)
 grub setup (hd0,0)
 grub quit

 Oh so difficult,

 That also requires the boot sector to /already/ be set up correctly, just
 in the partition itself this time =)

Another toughie:

A:\ SYS C:

Or, maybe you mean:

A:\ FDISK /MBR
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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot

[C. Masloch]

 A:\ SYS C:

 [...]

 A:\ FDISK /MBR

Yep, you successfully circumvented GRUB now =P

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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot

[Felix Miata]

On 2012-09-19 02:21 (GMT+0200) C. Masloch composed:

 A:\ SYS C:

 [...]

 A:\ FDISK /MBR

 Yep, you successfully circumvented GRUB now =P

Maybe you should reread what I wrote previously:

grub root (hd0,0)
grub setup (hd0,0)
grub quit

Grub doesn't need to be on the MBR, and I never put it there. Whether hd0,0, 
hd0,1, hd0,2 or hd0,4 is appropriate of course depends on the partitioning, 
where stage2 lives, and where C: is.
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[Freedos-user] dual boot part 5.

[kurt godel]

Eric,
actually, I tried to put the 98 on top of the FreeDos *both ways*, once from
FreeDos, and another time with a
bona fide 98 floppy boot image, which I had put on a cd (iso image, etc.).
The latest thing I tried was to first
load the fdos to 'c', reboot, then reboot again off the 98 cd boot cd. Then
I xcopied the works to the 'd'
logical drive, reformated the 'c' drive, installed 98 to that, then from 98
copied the works(fdos) back onto 'c'.
Of course, the same result: could not load the cd driver, since the drive
letters get bumped making the par-
titions.  I'm going to try again with 98, then fdos, and going to windows
with sys c command. TNX, kurt.
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Re: [Freedos-user] dual boot part 5.

[kd4d]

 -- Original message --
From: kurt godel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Eric,
 actually, I tried to put the 98 on top of the FreeDos *both ways*, once from
 FreeDos, and another time with a
 bona fide 98 floppy boot image, which I had put on a cd (iso image, etc.).
 The latest thing I tried was to first
 load the fdos to 'c', reboot, then reboot again off the 98 cd boot cd. Then
 I xcopied the works to the 'd'
 logical drive, reformated the 'c' drive, installed 98 to that, then from 98
 copied the works(fdos) back onto 'c'.
 Of course, the same result: could not load the cd driver, since the drive
 letters get bumped making the par-
 titions.  I'm going to try again with 98, then fdos, and going to windows
 with sys c command. TNX, kurt.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED].

Hi Kurt:

I've been following this thread with some interest.  I think it's simpler to 
just install
FreeDOS in its own partition.  You can use a boot manager to select which OS to
boot at startup.  My favorite, because it is very easy to install and 
configure, is
GAG (gag.sourceforge.net).

Eric disagrees of course.  :-)

You could create three primary partitions and install FreeDOS, MSDOS, and
Windows98.

Let me know if you have any questions. For partition fiddling, I usually use a 
Linux LiveCD and a program called gparted (see www.sysresccd.org if you
are interested).

Good luck.

73,

Mark, KD4D

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Re: [Freedos-user] dual boot part 5.

[Ray Davison]

If you want to boot multiple OSs you should get real boot manager.  For 
years I ran System Commander.  A couple years ago that started having 
problems with OS/2 on some mother boards.  Since then I have been using 
Acronis OS Selector.  It will run as many versions of DOS and W9X on a 
single C primary as you have space for.  During a transition period I 
had DRDOS, FREEDOS, MSDOS and two versions of W9X.  I did a similar 
thing with System Commander.  I also have Acronis Disk Director which 
has a boot manager as well as a partitioning tool.  It will also run 
multiple versions of Win32 from a single extended.  I have never needed 
more than one real primary.  None of these things cost much and they put 
you in control.

DRDOS has a boot selector that will select it or one version of W9X.  I 
am surprised if FREEDOS doesn't have such a thing.

Ray


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot recommendations ?

[Florian Xaver]

Hi,

you could use WinVista's bootloader.

two ways:
1a)install winvista on fat32 (first you have to install onto ntfs, then  
copy to fat32 etc. google for it)
1b) or make 2 partitions, one with FAT32 and one with NTFS, install Vista  
at the NTFS drive

2) boot into freedos (via CD) and type sys c: c:\kernel.bin...this will  
write the bootsector into the file kernel.bin. Kernel.sys should also be  
copied to drive C:
3)under vista copy kernel.bin onto ntfs-drive (under vista also drive c:)
4)in vista add c:\kernel.bin=freedos to boot.lst (a system file on c:\)

Now you should be able to multiboot.

bye
  Flo



On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:17:40 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi All,

 I'm going to be installing MS Vista on one of my computers soon.

 I'd like to also install freedos on the same machine. Can anyone  
 recommend a dual boot program ?

 Thanks,
 Tim




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[Freedos-user] Dual boot recommendations ?

[landson2512]

Hi All,

I'm going to be installing MS Vista on one of my computers soon. 

I'd like to also install freedos on the same machine. Can anyone recommend a 
dual boot program ?

Thanks,
Tim




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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot recommendations ?

[Dr. Geoffrey West]

If you use Vista's partition program in the administrators mode it will 
arrange the dual boot itself...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi All,

 I'm going to be installing MS Vista on one of my computers soon. 

 I'd like to also install freedos on the same machine. Can anyone recommend a 
 dual boot program ?

 Thanks,
 Tim




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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot recommendations ?

[Dr. Geoffrey West]

If you want to control your dual boot in depth it may pay you to 
download the beta version of Vista boot pro at http://www.vistabootpro.org/

Hope this helps a little more :o)

Regards Geoff

Dr. Geoffrey West wrote:
 If you use Vista's partition program in the administrators mode it will 
 arrange the dual boot itself...

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Hi All,

 I'm going to be installing MS Vista on one of my computers soon. 

 I'd like to also install freedos on the same machine. Can anyone recommend a 
 dual boot program ?

 Thanks,
 Tim




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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot document

[Johnson Lam]

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:47:58 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Mark,

It's probably time to update the screen snaps to the new version
of gparted.  The new version supposedly allows setting the LBA
flag (partition type change) from within gparted instead of
having to use the Linux fdisk, which will simplify the procedure
if it works correctly.

Great, then the document can get rid of the FDISK procedure.

The new live CD is available from gparted.sourceforge.net and contains
the xwd program.  I normally do the screen shots to a USB stick
(/dev/sda1).  I can't remember offhand whether that gets
automatically mounted or to where...I'll check when I get a
chance. Plugging in the stick and entering mount in a
terminal window will show where it is mounted.  It may be
/mnt/usbstick or /media/usbstick or something like that. :-)

I'll download and try, thanks for your information.


Rgds,
Johnson.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual boot document

[Mark Bailey]

Hi Johnson:

It's probably time to update the screen snaps to the new version
of gparted.  The new version supposedly allows setting the LBA
flag (partition type change) from within gparted instead of
having to use the Linux fdisk, which will simplify the procedure
if it works correctly.

The new live CD is available from gparted.sourceforge.net and contains
the xwd program.  I normally do the screen shots to a USB stick
(/dev/sda1).  I can't remember offhand whether that gets
automatically mounted or to where...I'll check when I get a
chance. Plugging in the stick and entering mount in a
terminal window will show where it is mounted.  It may be
/mnt/usbstick or /media/usbstick or something like that. :-)

Thanks for your help.

Mark

Johnson Lam wrote:

Hi Mark,

Sorry, got lot of work.

Now I return to improve the document, but I don't have the screen
capture program, can you send me? And please teach me how to save the
captured screen on the root directory.

Thanks.


Rgds,
Johnson.


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Re: [Freedos-user] dual boot XP/FreeDOS DJ mechanism problem

[Kenneth J. Davis]

Robert Ralston wrote:

...
But with kernel 1.1.35w Build 2035w-unstable from the 1440 ODIN 
distribution, everything works with a laptop   *if and only if* there is 
a floppy drive present.  If there is a floppy drive either in a bay or 
connected via USB, then the FreeDOS partition boots normally. However, 
if that floppy drive is missing, then we consistently get the message, 
after FreeDOS starts to load:


Error in the DJ mechanism. IO error: cyclinder  1023.  Bad or 
missing Command Interpreter. Enter the full shell command line: 
command.com /P /E:256.




There was a recent fix to the unstable kernel to better support 
floppyless systems.  If possible please try a current 2035w from 
http://www.fdos.org/kernel/ and let me know if that makes a difference.
Note: -W is the development [UNSTABLE] kernel branch (more features but 
less tested).  There are also builds of updated stable (release branch 
in cvs but not versioned releases) kernels here as well you may wish to try.




At first I thought maybe there is something wrong in the MBR.  Used 

...


QUESTIONS:

What distribution had kernel 1.1.34 on it?
Is that distribution still available?


I don't recall, probably original Beta9 or Beta8; all distributions from 
Alpha5 are still available so yes it is available; however, it sounds 
like all you need is the kernel, so I would recommended instead of 
downloading the whole distribution to check the FreeDOS sourceforge site 
and just download the kernel directly (easiest way to get a particular 
released kernel).




Any suggestions about what I may be doing wrong.  I'm not a DOS expert 
by any means.


sounds like you hit a kernel bug, testing to see if it is fixed in 
current kernels would be of great help




Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Robert



Jeremy




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Re: [Freedos-user] dual boot XP/FreeDOS DJ mechanism problem

[Johnson Lam]

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:20:30 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Jeremy,

There was a recent fix to the unstable kernel to better support 
floppyless systems.  If possible please try a current 2035w from 
http://www.fdos.org/kernel/ and let me know if that makes a difference.
Note: -W is the development [UNSTABLE] kernel branch (more features but 
less tested).  There are also builds of updated stable (release branch 
in cvs but not versioned releases) kernels here as well you may wish to try.

I got the latest kernel (386), and surprise that the date is MARCH.
Are you using CVS auto build or manually compile?

Also is there any change log?

Thanks.


Rgds,
Johnson.


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Re: [Freedos-user] dual boot XP/FreeDOS DJ mechanism problem

[Robert Ralston]

Problem Solved !!

A Giant Thank You to Eric Auer and Kenneth J. Davis. Without a floppy 
drive present, the drive numbering was wrong, giving the DJ Mechanism 
failure message.


FreeDOS install done via ODIN 1.44 floppy, then kernel.sys replaced. 
Both kernels listed below worked but I will stick with the stable one.


kernel 1.1.35(Build 2035b-cvs)
kernel 1.1.35w (Build 2035w-UNSTABLE)


The 1.1.35 kernel works on my test laptops (MPC T1200 and Dell 
Latitude D610), the former with 2 primary partitions and the latter 
with 3 primary partitions (because we are keeping the Dell 
Diagnostics partition).


We now have a completely current, scripted, easy solution for our 
software refresh procedure for the PC laptops which we loan out.


Thank you so much,

Robert


























Robert Ralston wrote:

...
But with kernel 1.1.35w Build 2035w-unstable from the 1440 ODIN 
distribution, everything works with a laptop   *if and only if* 
there is a floppy drive present.  If there is a floppy drive either 
in a bay or connected via USB, then the FreeDOS partition boots 
normally. However, if that floppy drive is missing, then we 
consistently get the message, after FreeDOS starts to load:


Error in the DJ mechanism. IO error: cyclinder  1023.  Bad or 
missing Command Interpreter. Enter the full shell command line: 
command.com /P /E:256.




There was a recent fix to the unstable kernel to better support 
floppyless systems.  If possible please try a current 2035w from 
http://www.fdos.org/kernel/ and let me know if that makes a 
difference.
Note: -W is the development [UNSTABLE] kernel branch (more features 
but less tested).  There are also builds of updated stable (release 
branch in cvs but not versioned releases) kernels here as well you 
may wish to try.




At first I thought maybe there is something wrong in the MBR.  Used

...


QUESTIONS:

What distribution had kernel 1.1.34 on it?
Is that distribution still available?


I don't recall, probably original Beta9 or Beta8; all distributions 
from Alpha5 are still available so yes it is available; however, it 
sounds like all you need is the kernel, so I would recommended 
instead of downloading the whole distribution to check the FreeDOS 
sourceforge site and just download the kernel directly (easiest way 
to get a particular released kernel).




Any suggestions about what I may be doing wrong.  I'm not a DOS 
expert by any means.


sounds like you hit a kernel bug, testing to see if it is fixed in 
current kernels would be of great help




Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Robert



Jeremy




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[Freedos-user] dual boot XP/FreeDOS DJ mechanism problem

[Robert Ralston]

We use FreeDOS on laptops for an easy software refresh procedure. 
Hard drive is 2 primary partitions, 15 and 5 GB for example, with XP 
on big one, FreeDOS on small one.


With Norton's scriptable gdisk32 on XP side, we can unhide and make 
active the FreeDOS partition, run ghost from the FreeDOS partition to 
either make a partition ghost image from the Windows partition or 
reload from an image to the XP side. With gdisk we then make the XP 
partition active and reboot.


PROBLEM:  everything works OK with FreeDOS kernel 1.1.34 (Build 
2034).   Boot with floppy and sys a: c: to the small partition. 
That's all we use, just the kernel and command.com.


But with kernel 1.1.35w Build 2035w-unstable from the 1440 ODIN 
distribution, everything works with a laptop   *if and only if* there 
is a floppy drive present.  If there is a floppy drive either in a 
bay or connected via USB, then the FreeDOS partition boots normally. 
However, if that floppy drive is missing, then we consistently get 
the message, after FreeDOS starts to load:


	Error in the DJ mechanism. IO error: cyclinder  1023.  Bad 
or missing Command Interpreter. Enter the full shell command line: 
command.com /P /E:256.



At first I thought maybe there is something wrong in the MBR.  Used 
WinHex to look at a working MBR and non-working MBR, they are 
identical.  That makes sense, nothing has been changed in the 16 byte 
partition entries.


Then thought it was the boot sector for the FreeDOS partition. 
After looking at a working and non-working boot sector, they seem 
identical except for the name of FreeDOS itself.  And FreeDOS seems 
to start loading, but without a floppy drive, cannot find (?) 
command.com.  Command.com is clearly not missing bad.  Just reboot 
with a floppy drive present and FreeDOS fully boots.


If I restore the FreeDOS partition from a ghost image from a working 
machine, which was made on a laptop which always has both an optical 
drive and a floppy, then the newer laptop again works, with or 
without a floppy drive.


QUESTIONS:

What distribution had kernel 1.1.34 on it?
Is that distribution still available?

Any suggestions about what I may be doing wrong.  I'm not a DOS 
expert by any means.


Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Robert


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers needed

[Gerry Hickman]

Hi Carl,

As far as I know SAMBA has begun to implement them, although there was 
some dispute as to reliability last time it was discussed. I agree about 
the porting too, I'm not even aware of a true FreeDOS network client, 
let alone one with these facilities? I currently have to use Microsoft's 
network client and drivers to be able to connect to corporate networks 
from FreeDOS at all.



Last I checked M$ was not hosting them.


Not sure what you mean here?


Where did you find the DOS network drivers?


About a year ago I switch our production build and test environment to 
FreeDOS; it relied on creating a boot environment which then connects to 
the Windows SMB network over TCP/IP and pulls a hardware independent 
image from the network to build the new workstation or server. The 
network part of it uses MSCLIENT 3.0 and I should have made it clear 
when I said Microsoft drivers I was meaning the IFS driver as opposed 
to the actual NIC driver! The NIC driver is of course supplied by the 
vendor of the NIC e.g. 3Com, Intel, Broadcom.


This was perfect until head office upgraded to Windows Server 2003 and 
now it doesn't work because FreeDOS can't use Kerberos, or sign the SMB 
packets:(


Looks like I'll need to use WinPE:(

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers needed

[Carl Spitzer]

On Sat, 2006-02-04 at 19:06 +, Gerry Hickman wrote:
 Hi David,
 
  1. LM authentication
  2. SMB signing
 
  Does Samba support those things?  If so then at least there is hope that one
  could port parts of the Samba code to DOS.  I suppose the encryption code
  may take up significantly more memory though?
 
 As far as I know SAMBA has begun to implement them, although there was 
 some dispute as to reliability last time it was discussed. I agree about 
 the porting too, I'm not even aware of a true FreeDOS network client, 
 let alone one with these facilities? I currently have to use Microsoft's 
 network client and drivers to be able to connect to corporate networks 
 from FreeDOS at all.
 
Last I checked M$ was not hosting them.

Where did you find the DOS network drivers?  

CWSIV



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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers needed

[David O'Shea]

Hi Gerry,

 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 23:02:26 +
 From: Gerry Hickman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 However, two recent changes to Windows networks have relegated FreeDOS
 to the recycle bin:

 1. LM authentication is no longer enabled once a corporation moves to
 Windows Server 2003. No IT manager or corporate Admin would ever agree
 to turn it on either, as it's a serious security risk. FreeDOS does not
 have a network client that can authenticate against Kerberos.

 2. SMB signing is now the default on Windows networks and FreeDOS can't
 sign SMB packets.

Does Samba support those things?  If so then at least there is hope that one
could port parts of the Samba code to DOS.  I suppose the encryption code
may take up significantly more memory though?

Regards,
David


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers needed

[Mark Bailey]

Hi Johnson:

The new machine comes with WindowsXP pre-installed
and configured.  Often, people immediately add
software and spend a lot of time configuring it...
I sure do.

My experience suggests that people would rather use an
old, dedicated machine than spend hours re-installing
WindowsXP.  I have NEVER reinstalled WindowsXP and I've
dual booted at least a dozen machines.

Using the Linux tools, you can shrink the WindowsXP partition
IN PLACE, without affecting WindowsXP at all.  (Well, WindowsXP
does run chkdisk after you do this, but that's automatic.  It
runs exactly the same way.)

I'm using a boot loader called GAG because it's the simplest to
set up that I've found.  Works great!

Takes maybe 15 minutes to do everything (other than download
and burn the Linux LiveCD that does this).

Mark

Johnson Lam wrote:


I'm not smart, so I think the target of the dual boot should be:

1) Install FreeDOS FAT32, then install WinXP, add FreeDOS to WinXP
loader (simple but I found sometimes WinXP refuse to write the boot
sector if it's not MSDOS)

2) Make FAT32 partition somewhere in the WinXP installed hard disk,
then use boot manager (WinXP boot loader or something like Robert
Riebisch's bootmgr)


Rgds,
Johnson.




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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers needed

[Mark Bailey]

Hi Johnson:

Johnson Lam wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:32:55 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Mark,


 ...Partition Magic discussion...deleted



If it's 100% reliable, still worth to pay them, but it's not!


Not if the free alternatives work and are just as easy to use...
and they are!  Grab a new WindowsXP machine and do this
procedure...you will be very happy with the result.  :-)

[...]




So, it is really worth trying to modify a Linux
installer to automatically re-partition the disk
correctly?


If you CAN do this, why not?
Every piece of software have it's own value of existence.



True, but it would be a LOT of work for me since I'm
not a Linux expert and I don't have time right now.  :-(



I'm not smart, so I think the target of the dual boot should be:

1) Install FreeDOS FAT32, then install WinXP, add FreeDOS to WinXP
loader (simple but I found sometimes WinXP refuse to write the boot
sector if it's not MSDOS)

2) Make FAT32 partition somewhere in the WinXP installed hard disk,
then use boot manager (WinXP boot loader or something like Robert
Riebisch's bootmgr)



No, reloading WindowsXP is too much work and takes too much time.
If we can get exactly the same result more easily, without doing
that, it is better that way!



Rgds,
Johnson.


Mark



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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers needed

[Johnson Lam]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:25:46 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Mark,

The new machine comes with WindowsXP pre-installed
and configured.  Often, people immediately add
software and spend a lot of time configuring it...
I sure do.

Yes, I did the same time consuming job, so I can understand adding
FreeDOS with destroying XP is a great idea.

My experience suggests that people would rather use an
old, dedicated machine than spend hours re-installing
WindowsXP.  I have NEVER reinstalled WindowsXP and I've
dual booted at least a dozen machines.

Reinstall XP is a PAIN. So if I can boot FreeDOS from hard disk and
make GHOST (any other OpenSource choice?) them into the FreeDOS
partition of flash (via USB), then I can save much time working on my
own, relax.

Using the Linux tools, you can shrink the WindowsXP partition
IN PLACE, without affecting WindowsXP at all.  (Well, WindowsXP
does run chkdisk after you do this, but that's automatic.  It
runs exactly the same way.)

I've found a guide to do this, but it seems not so easy because I'm
not familiar of Linux, also it's like disintegrate a bus for a novice
engineer, quite frightening. That why I want a program can did this
procedure automatically (at least semi-automatic).

Takes maybe 15 minutes to do everything (other than download
and burn the Linux LiveCD that does this).

If you can simplify the procedure or give choices to the users, for
example. ask them to choose 500MB, 1GB or 4GB FAT32 instead of asking
'what is the size you want? Enter in bytes'.

Some pre-defined choice is better than asking questions with size or
number. Linux is GREAT but not user friendly.


Rgds,
Johnson.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers

[Schumacher, Gordon]

Mark Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

# Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:32:55 -0500
# From: Mark Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
# To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
# Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers 
needed
#
# I was thinking a bit more about automating this.  We
# MIGHT be able to grab some stuff from a Linux installer
# to automatically, under carefully defined conditions,
# shrink the NTFS partition and create a new fat32
# partition.  AFAIK, it can't be done under DOS at all.
# Partition Magic just doesn't reliably work on NTFS
# partitions as of 8.02 and XP Service Pack 2 (or
# possibly, SP 1).  And, Partition Magic is expensive
# and has a restrictive license (use on one computer,
# blah, blah, blah...).

Why not use ntfsresize?  One could see about trying to get *that* built
under DJGPP... or have I just pretended to be 'Q' and said Simple,
change the gravitational constant of the universe! :)

# Judging from the response to Version 1.0, though,
# only one FreeDOS user was even interested in dual
# booting a new machine.  It appears everyone else
# has already figured out how to meet their
# requirements.  Most of the folks I know use
# old, dedicated machines to run DOS.

Well, I do this - in fact I'm triple-booting SuSE 10, XP, and FreeDOS -
and I even have XP recognizing its own drive as C: (which is the sneaky
part) but I personally found it to be easy, if slightly convoluted.

1) Boot off of the SuSE CD in rescue mode and create an ext3 boot
   partition as partition 1.
2) Reboot onto the Windows XP boot disk and create a FAT32 partition, being
   sure to leave space after the end of that partition for your Linux root
   and swap partitions.  Do not let it continue the install past formatting
   the partition.
3) Reboot into SuSE rescue and delete the ext3 partition.
4) Reboot into the XP installer.  Let XP install.  Since there are no other
   partitions on the disk, it will identify the single partition as C:.
5) Install FreeDOS, onto the same FAT32 partition.  FreeDOS will see that
   XP is installed, and instead of replacing the boot sector it will put
   the boot sector into a file named FREEDOS.BSS and add itself to the
   BOOT.INI file for the NT boot loader.
6) Install SuSE, recreating the boot partition as before.  For bonus points,
   remove the FreeDOS entry from BOOT.INI and add it to GRUB's menu.lst, so
   that you have a single boot menu :)

For a dual-boot XP/FreeDOS install, skip steps 1-3 and 6, and simply install
XP first.  You could I suppose install XP and FreeDOS to separate FAT32
partitions if you wanted, though I haven't done that.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers

[Mark Bailey]

Hi:

I'm using a graphical front-end to ntfsresize called
GParted.  Resizing the partition is just a few mouse clicks
and does not affect the data in the partition at all.

I had understood Johnson to want it automatic.

What I'm doing is shrinking the ntfs partition,
creating a brand new FAT32 partition, and installing
a boot loader.  No fooling with Microsoft's stuff
at all, and NO installing WindowsXP.  The new computers
already have XP installed.  Other than seeing a new
disk device (the FAT32 partition), and running chkdsk
once, WindowsXP really doesn't know this happened at all.

Takes maybe 15 minutes after you've done it once!  :-)

Mark

Schumacher, Gordon wrote:

Mark Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

# Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:32:55 -0500
# From: Mark Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
# To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
# Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers 
needed
#
# I was thinking a bit more about automating this.  We
# MIGHT be able to grab some stuff from a Linux installer
# to automatically, under carefully defined conditions,
# shrink the NTFS partition and create a new fat32
# partition.  AFAIK, it can't be done under DOS at all.
# Partition Magic just doesn't reliably work on NTFS
# partitions as of 8.02 and XP Service Pack 2 (or
# possibly, SP 1).  And, Partition Magic is expensive
# and has a restrictive license (use on one computer,
# blah, blah, blah...).

Why not use ntfsresize?  One could see about trying to get *that* built
under DJGPP... or have I just pretended to be 'Q' and said Simple,
change the gravitational constant of the universe! :)

# Judging from the response to Version 1.0, though,
# only one FreeDOS user was even interested in dual
# booting a new machine.  It appears everyone else
# has already figured out how to meet their
# requirements.  Most of the folks I know use
# old, dedicated machines to run DOS.

Well, I do this - in fact I'm triple-booting SuSE 10, XP, and FreeDOS -
and I even have XP recognizing its own drive as C: (which is the sneaky
part) but I personally found it to be easy, if slightly convoluted.

1) Boot off of the SuSE CD in rescue mode and create an ext3 boot
   partition as partition 1.
2) Reboot onto the Windows XP boot disk and create a FAT32 partition, being
   sure to leave space after the end of that partition for your Linux root
   and swap partitions.  Do not let it continue the install past formatting
   the partition.
3) Reboot into SuSE rescue and delete the ext3 partition.
4) Reboot into the XP installer.  Let XP install.  Since there are no other
   partitions on the disk, it will identify the single partition as C:.
5) Install FreeDOS, onto the same FAT32 partition.  FreeDOS will see that
   XP is installed, and instead of replacing the boot sector it will put
   the boot sector into a file named FREEDOS.BSS and add itself to the
   BOOT.INI file for the NT boot loader.
6) Install SuSE, recreating the boot partition as before.  For bonus points,
   remove the FreeDOS entry from BOOT.INI and add it to GRUB's menu.lst, so
   that you have a single boot menu :)

For a dual-boot XP/FreeDOS install, skip steps 1-3 and 6, and simply install
XP first.  You could I suppose install XP and FreeDOS to separate FAT32
partitions if you wanted, though I haven't done that.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers needed

[Mark Bailey]

Hi Johnson:

I was thinking a bit more about automating this.  We
MIGHT be able to grab some stuff from a Linux installer
to automatically, under carefully defined conditions,
shrink the NTFS partition and create a new fat32
partition.  AFAIK, it can't be done under DOS at all.
Partition Magic just doesn't reliably work on NTFS
partitions as of 8.02 and XP Service Pack 2 (or
possibly, SP 1).  And, Partition Magic is expensive
and has a restrictive license (use on one computer,
blah, blah, blah...).

Many of the Linux installers don't automate this,
since computer setups vary so widely and so do the
user requirements. And, the operations are quite
dangerous.  The last one I tried to use that
automated this was dangerous and could destroy
a disk if the user selected the wrong, cryptic,
setup option.

And, the FreeDOS SYS: command needs to be done
under FreeDOS. We could, I suppose, create a
multi-boot CD.

Obviously, writing a batch file to automate the
FreeDOS installation to a specific partition
would be almost trivial, starting with ODIN.
Creating an easy-to-use, up-to-date, ODIN
floppy image that installs FreeDOS to a
specified disk partition would be useful...I'd
use it! :-)

Judging from the response to Version 1.0, though,
only one FreeDOS user was even interested in dual
booting a new machine.  It appears everyone else
has already figured out how to meet their
requirements.  Most of the folks I know use
old, dedicated machines to run DOS.

So, it is really worth trying to modify a Linux
installer to automatically re-partition the disk
correctly?

BTW, I've found a couple of people interested in
doing this with MS-DOS, so they'll help iron out
the disk partitioning description and installation
of MS-DOS, anyway.

Mark

Johnson Lam wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:41:12 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Mark,



I am working on the next version of a procedure to add
FreeDOS to almost any WindowsXP computer in a dual-boot
configuration and WITHOUT destroying the WindowsXP



Great, on the Internet there're some guide to this, but all of them is
instructions, without a package or program to do it for you
automatically.



I'm using open source Linux tools to shrink the WindowsXP
NTFS partition.  I would like a couple of volunteers to
test the Version 2.0 Alpha procedure and provide
suggestions and corrections.



I wish I can catch up with you, in the coming month I have a 3 weeks
trip. I'll prepare a spare hard disk and install XP.



You should be comfortable with DOS commands and rebooting
your computer.  You do NOT need any Linux experience.



Good.



If you would like to dual-boot a new computer with FreeDOS,
and want to help test this, please send me an e-mail and
I'll send you the current draft of the procedure.  After a
few volunteers run through it, I'll get the updated procedure
posted on the web somewhere.



Did you have any plan to make a small utility to go through the
procedure automatically?


Rgds,
Johnson.


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[Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers needed

[Mark Bailey]

Good day, all:

I am working on the next version of a procedure to add
FreeDOS to almost any WindowsXP computer in a dual-boot
configuration and WITHOUT destroying the WindowsXP
installation.  When the computer boots, you can select
either WindowsXP or FreeDOS.

I'm using open source Linux tools to shrink the WindowsXP
NTFS partition.  I would like a couple of volunteers to
test the Version 2.0 Alpha procedure and provide
suggestions and corrections.

You should be comfortable with DOS commands and rebooting
your computer.  You do NOT need any Linux experience.

You will need a WindowsXP computer you would like to also
have FreeDOS installed on, a backup of any critical data
you have on that computer, a high-speed internet link,
and a CD burner.  A floppy disk drive will make this
easier, but is not necessary.

If you would like to dual-boot a new computer with FreeDOS,
and want to help test this, please send me an e-mail and
I'll send you the current draft of the procedure.  After a
few volunteers run through it, I'll get the updated procedure
posted on the web somewhere.

Thanks.

Mark Bailey



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Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot WindowsXP and FreeDOS - Alpha testers needed

[Johnson Lam]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:41:12 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Mark,

I am working on the next version of a procedure to add
FreeDOS to almost any WindowsXP computer in a dual-boot
configuration and WITHOUT destroying the WindowsXP

Great, on the Internet there're some guide to this, but all of them is
instructions, without a package or program to do it for you
automatically.

I'm using open source Linux tools to shrink the WindowsXP
NTFS partition.  I would like a couple of volunteers to
test the Version 2.0 Alpha procedure and provide
suggestions and corrections.

I wish I can catch up with you, in the coming month I have a 3 weeks
trip. I'll prepare a spare hard disk and install XP.

You should be comfortable with DOS commands and rebooting
your computer.  You do NOT need any Linux experience.

Good.

If you would like to dual-boot a new computer with FreeDOS,
and want to help test this, please send me an e-mail and
I'll send you the current draft of the procedure.  After a
few volunteers run through it, I'll get the updated procedure
posted on the web somewhere.

Did you have any plan to make a small utility to go through the
procedure automatically?


Rgds,
Johnson.


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