Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Richard Gerome]

   So where is the Wizard??? I would like to visit Oz!!! To see the Lion on a 
new Apple!!!

P.S. This is how they never end...




-Original Message-
>From: Bill Connelly 
>Sent: Oct 27, 2010 10:48 AM
>To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
>
>
>On Oct 27, 2010, at 12:33 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 26, 2010, at 6:53 PM, Ashgrove wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 26, 3:03 pm, Bill Connelly  wrote:
>>>> Is this thread ever going to end?
>>>
>>> I have been wondering the same thing... :-)
>>
>> "This is the thread that never ends
>>
>> It goes on and on and on, my friends...
>>
>> Someone started writing it not knowing what it was,
>>
>> and they'll continue writing it forever just because,"
>
>... because  because ... because ... because  be-cause ...
>
>because of the wonderful things he does?
>
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Scars only tell us where we have been, they do not have to dictate where we are 
going...

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Joshua Juran]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 6:52 PM, Ashgrove wrote:


On Oct 26, 4:34 pm, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
The only concrete example I can think of is at the Intel  
introduction where Jobs stated that the PowerPC was definitely  
going to be supported through the next OS version, which it was.  
10.4 to 10.5 also took a lot longer than previous iterations of OS  
X. No one official has said anything one way or another about 32- 
bit Intel systems not being supported in 10.7. All we have to go on  
is rank speculation and rampant paranoia.


Probably guilty of both. But I still think it's going to happen.


For what it's worth, every Mac OS X release after 10.2  
"Jaguar" (arguably the first viable release)  has cut off support for  
some systems supported by the previous version.  10.3 "Panther"  
requires built-in USB (i.e. NewWorld), 10.4 "Tiger" requires built-in  
FireWire, 10.5 "Leopard" requires G4 or later, and 10.6 "Snow Leopard"  
requires an Intel processor.  If 10.7 "Lion" supports every system  
supported by its predecessor, it would be the first time a successor  
to a viable OS X release did so.


I'll wager that Lion doesn't support Core Duo systems.

Josh


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 6:53 PM, Ashgrove wrote:


On Oct 26, 3:03 pm, Bill Connelly  wrote:

Is this thread ever going to end?


I have been wondering the same thing... :-)


"This is the thread that never ends

It goes on and on and on, my friends...

Someone started writing it not knowing what it was,

and they'll continue writing it forever just because,"


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[admin]

But are the operating system (reaching 64-bit) and computers really  
changing much any more?  They both seem to have matured to me.


On Oct 26, 2010, at 4:34 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

Apple has built and deliberately demolished their business several  
times: Apple II to Mac, Mac OS to OS X (and on to iOS), PowerPC to  
Intel. They even killed one of their most popular products EVER, at  
the very peak of its popularity (the original iPod Nano) to make way  
for the next version


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Jeff Bequette]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:52 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:



On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:05 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of  
portable
units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version  
of it:

netbooks.



Netbook sales have crashed since the introduction of the iPad.  
Laptop sales have dominated the industry for several years now.


--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD




I intend to buy an ipad for She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed, Christmas.   no  
3g.  Laptop would be overkill, like buying Granny Bugatti Veryon.  The  
iPad is the perfect appliance for her 'computer' needs.  I look at  
upgrading from current  '04 dpG5 1.8 to a used intel 2.66 or 3 ghz, or  
may just wait till post christmas price drops.  If i bought new, I  
would have to look very hard at the 27" iMac.




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Kris Tilford]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:53 PM, Ashgrove wrote:


Is this thread ever going to end?


I have been wondering the same thing... :-)


"there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion  
forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished"


From:


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 26, 3:03 pm, Bill Connelly  wrote:
> Is this thread ever going to end?

I have been wondering the same thing... :-)

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 26, 4:34 pm, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
> The only concrete example I can think of is at the Intel introduction where 
> Jobs stated that the PowerPC was definitely going to be supported through the 
> next OS version, which it was. 10.4 to 10.5 also took a lot longer than 
> previous iterations of OS X. No one official has said anything one way or 
> another about 32-bit Intel systems not being supported in 10.7. All we have 
> to go on is rank speculation and rampant paranoia.

Probably guilty of both. But I still think it's going to happen.

Felix

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 1:21 PM, Dan wrote:


At 2:02 PM -0600 10/26/2010, James Therrault wrote:

On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is  
booming right now,
not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances  
and the profits

too.


Here's a view of 'puter sales:

http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601


Yea.  3.8% growth is not a boom.  A few more quarters of that and  
those companies will have reorganizations.  Oh, but Americans love  
honking big ugly SUVs!  Lets keep makin 'em!


- Dan.




Heh...  Speakin' of big ugly SUVs, do a search to read about the  
current supertanker surplus and more are a-comin'!


JT




Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc752dc89c2047e7d7st02duc

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Dan wrote:

> At 2:02 PM -0600 10/26/2010, James Therrault wrote:
>> On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>>> Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right 
>>> now,
>>> not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the 
>>> profits
>>> too.
>> 
>> Here's a view of 'puter sales:
>> 
>> http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601
> 
> Yea.  3.8% growth is not a boom.  A few more quarters of that and those 
> companies will have reorganizations.  Oh, but Americans love honking big ugly 
> SUVs!  Lets keep makin 'em!

Gotta love that article, attributing the drop in low-end notebook and netbook 
sales to 'sales of the iPad and tablets like it', when were no 'tablets like 
it' shipping at the time.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Swigart, Kurt A [NTK] wrote:

> 
> I think Bruce Johnson missed the point on that last poster.  You're not 
> exercising a sense of entitlement by pointing out that a corporation has 
> abandoned their original core beliefs.

>From where are you getting "Apple's original core beliefs"?  The only such 
>statement I've ever seen is in an interview with Steve Jobs several years ago 
>(I believe it was in Time magazine) which was (paraphrased):

"Our primary goal at Apple is to make the coolest stuff on the planet, our 
secondary goal is to sell enough of that stuff to keep on making the coolest 
stuff on the planet." 

There's NEVER been ANYthing on Apple's part ever about 'avoiding forced 
obsolescence', indeed, given the pace of advancement in the computing industry, 
'forced obsolescence' is a nonsensical term. We have gone, in the space of 40 
years, from crude, character-based 8-bit systems (the Apple II) to what has 
been described as 'one of those cool hand computers you've always seen in those 
sci-fi movies' ; the iPad. 

Apple has built and deliberately demolished their business several times: Apple 
II to Mac, Mac OS to OS X (and on to iOS), PowerPC to Intel. They even killed 
one of their most popular products EVER, at the very peak of its popularity 
(the original iPod Nano) to make way for the next version.

My point about 'sense of entitlement' was about Wallace pretty much demanding 
that Apple make 'a $500 midrange tower with slots and an upgradeable CPU' which 
is something that Apple HAS NEVER MADE. For one, $500 isn't 'midrange' 
anything, it's dirt cheap. 

The only concession they've EVER made to 'cheap' is the Mini. 

>  If I offer to deliver a superior product while promising to avoid the forced 
> obsolescence shenanigans characteristic of my competitors, and then break my 
> promise, you're not displaying an entitlement complex by calling me on it.

When did Apple ever promise that? 

The only concrete example I can think of is at the Intel introduction where 
Jobs stated that the PowerPC was definitely going to be supported through the 
next OS version, which it was. 10.4 to 10.5 also took a lot longer than 
previous iterations of OS X. No one official has said anything one way or 
another about 32-bit Intel systems not being supported in 10.7. All we have to 
go on is rank speculation and rampant paranoia.

Truthfully, beyond hobbyists and specialized cases, there really ISN'T a large 
market for CPU upgrades, add-in cards, etc etc etc. They only flourished when 
Macs were hugely expensive (The G4-450 Sawtooth cost nearly $3300 in today's 
dollars) and Apple could not acquire the improved CPU's in quantity (most 
third-party add-ins were overclocked or part of the small numbers of processors 
that Motorola or IBM could produce that met the higher speed specs.) These 
things add nothing to Apple's bottom line, either.

Microsoft's long been hampered by their inability to engage in the sort of 
creative destruction that Apple does routinely; it's only this week that 
they're finally forbidding their OEM's to stop installing Windows XP. That 
'Long Tail' may suit the kind of corporate office systems that MS targets, but 
Apple has NEVER made any bones about not chasing that market.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 2:02 PM -0600 10/26/2010, James Therrault wrote:

On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming 
right now,
not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and 
the profits

too.


Here's a view of 'puter sales:

http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601


Yea.  3.8% growth is not a boom.  A few more quarters of that and 
those companies will have reorganizations.  Oh, but Americans love 
honking big ugly SUVs!  Lets keep makin 'em!


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:




On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250  
 wrote:

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N
From:Dan 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> […]  The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right
> now.  Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make
> those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales  
fall in

> to the toilet!  WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in
> that?

Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming  
right now,
not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and  
the profits

too.

Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of  
portable
units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version  
of it:
netbooks. Even electronic readers are starting to be sold in larger  
numbers.


Here's a view of 'puter sales:

http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601

JT

Mortgage Rates Hit 3.25%
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc725f6f29da4694ccst06duc

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bill Connelly]

Is this thread ever going to end?

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RE: IS the world about to change ?

[Swigart, Kurt A [NTK]]

A friend of mine responded the below and I get the point.

I think Bruce Johnson missed the point on that last poster.  You're not 
exercising a sense of entitlement by pointing out that a corporation has 
abandoned their original core beliefs.  If I offer to deliver a superior 
product while promising to avoid the forced obsolescence shenanigans 
characteristic of my competitors, and then break my promise, you're not 
displaying an entitlement complex by calling me on it.

The problem is proving that abstaining from forced obsolescence shenanigans was 
ever "promised".  Ergo, the aforementioned "marketroid gobbledegook that's 
changeble per the whims of the moment and has no legal standing whatsoever".

It is the epitome of arrogance to position yourself a certain way in the 
marketplace -and earn the trust of your customers by hewing to a certain 
ethical standard, then crap all over the standard and blame your customers for 
being upset about it.



"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." 
Jimi Hendrix
"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens" Jimi Hendrix


-Original Message-
From: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:g3-5-l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Bruce Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 1:13 PM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?


On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250 
> wrote:
>
>> ------  Original message  --
>> Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
>> Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N
>> From:Dan 
>>
>>
>> Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They
>> simply don't need *us* anymore.
>> Us being low-end-Mac owners.
>

> When I do a web search  If I do not see what I want in about 3 pages of
> links I give up because I am exhausted from wading through the mud of
> hypertext. My point is, is anyone here good at this ? At finding documents
> that are hard to find.
>
> If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ?

In the archives of the state in which Apple was incorporated, which is likely 
California. Possibly in the Investor Information on Apple's web site.

>
> Beside turning a profit is mentioned in that charter even, I would assume ir
> says something about how it Apple intends to serve the customers and the
> Nation within which it was founded. Of course charters for other countries
> will follow the customs and requirements there.


No. A corporate charter is a legal document which is 99% boilerplate stating 
who the officers of the corporation are and how the company is set up. There is 
normally zero mention of customers or any mention of the country, other than 
the legal requirement to state the location of incorporation.

What you're talking about sounds like a corporate 'mission statement' which is 
normally just marketroid gobbledegook that's changeble per the whims of the 
moment and has no legal standing whatsoever.

Perhaps old corporate charters for things like the East India Company had such 
stuff in them, but the EIC was being chartered as a quasi-government. They had 
a standing army and navy.

>
> Why should Apple make that machine I mentioned at an affordable price ? And
> why should they avoid business decisions that deteriorate the function and
> the use of machines already sold ?
>
> Because,  if they do not their whole philosophy of purpose and existence
> upon which they were founded and upon which public trust has been based
> becomes a lie.

Call the waaahmbulance for that overinflated sense of entitlement you 
have"Apple must sell me what I want or else they're EVIL!!"

All of Apple's "public trust" is based on one thing, and one thing only: they 
sell things that people happily want to exchange their money for.

They're a company, a commercial venture, selling things that you may or may not 
purchase. They're not a religion, a country, or some deeply engrained social 
construct.

A company, which sells things. No more, no less. If they don't sell you what 
you want, find someone who does, or, failing that, step into the breach 
yourself.

Sell a computer as easy to use, with as well-made an OS, for $500; this is the 
essence of capitalism. Oh yeah, do it without copying their work, because, you 
know, it's *theirs*, no fair cheating...

--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[JoeTaxpayer]

>From http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107357&p=irol-faq#corpinfo2
Q: What is Apple's mission statement?
A: Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along
with OS X, iLife, iWork, and professional software. Apple leads the
digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple
reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App
Store, and has recently introduced its magical iPad which is defining
the future of mobile media and computing devices.

You searched the wrong words. Corporate Charter may still be used, but
Mission Statement is the more common term. Although this answer,
above, is a bit underwhelming.

On Oct 26, 12:12 pm, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
 wrote:

> If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ?

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250 
> wrote:
> 
>> --  Original message  ----------
>> Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
>> Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N
>> From:Dan 
>> 
>> 
>> Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They
>> simply don't need *us* anymore.
>> Us being low-end-Mac owners.
> 

> When I do a web search  If I do not see what I want in about 3 pages of
> links I give up because I am exhausted from wading through the mud of
> hypertext. My point is, is anyone here good at this ? At finding documents
> that are hard to find.
> 
> If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ?

In the archives of the state in which Apple was incorporated, which is likely 
California. Possibly in the Investor Information on Apple's web site.

> 
> Beside turning a profit is mentioned in that charter even, I would assume ir
> says something about how it Apple intends to serve the customers and the
> Nation within which it was founded. Of course charters for other countries
> will follow the customs and requirements there.


No. A corporate charter is a legal document which is 99% boilerplate stating 
who the officers of the corporation are and how the company is set up. There is 
normally zero mention of customers or any mention of the country, other than 
the legal requirement to state the location of incorporation.

What you're talking about sounds like a corporate 'mission statement' which is 
normally just marketroid gobbledegook that's changeble per the whims of the 
moment and has no legal standing whatsoever.

Perhaps old corporate charters for things like the East India Company had such 
stuff in them, but the EIC was being chartered as a quasi-government. They had 
a standing army and navy.

> 
> Why should Apple make that machine I mentioned at an affordable price ? And
> why should they avoid business decisions that deteriorate the function and
> the use of machines already sold ?
> 
> Because,  if they do not their whole philosophy of purpose and existence
> upon which they were founded and upon which public trust has been based
> becomes a lie.

Call the waaahmbulance for that overinflated sense of entitlement you 
have"Apple must sell me what I want or else they're EVIL!!" 

All of Apple's "public trust" is based on one thing, and one thing only: they 
sell things that people happily want to exchange their money for.

They're a company, a commercial venture, selling things that you may or may not 
purchase. They're not a religion, a country, or some deeply engrained social 
construct. 

A company, which sells things. No more, no less. If they don't sell you what 
you want, find someone who does, or, failing that, step into the breach 
yourself. 

Sell a computer as easy to use, with as well-made an OS, for $500; this is the 
essence of capitalism. Oh yeah, do it without copying their work, because, you 
know, it's *theirs*, no fair cheating...

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:05 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

> Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable 
> units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it: 
> netbooks. 


Netbook sales have crashed since the introduction of the iPad. Laptop sales 
have dominated the industry for several years now.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

> --  Original message  --
> Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
> Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N
> From:Dan 
> To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>
> > […]  The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right
> > now.  Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make
> > those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales fall in
> > to the toilet!  WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in
> > that?
>
> Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right
> now,
> not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the
> profits
> too.
>
> Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable
> units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it:
> netbooks. Even electronic readers are starting to be sold in larger
> numbers.
>
>
> Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They
> simply don't need *us* anymore.
> Us being low-end-Mac owners.
>
> ___
>


When I do a web search  If I do not see what I want in about 3 pages of
links I give up because I am exhausted from wading through the mud of
hypertext. My point is, is anyone here good at this ? At finding documents
that are hard to find.

If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ?

Beside turning a profit is mentioned in that charter even, I would assume ir
says something about how it Apple intends to serve the customers and the
Nation within which it was founded. Of course charters for other countries
will follow the customs and requirements there.

Why should Apple make that machine I mentioned at an affordable price ? And
why should they avoid business decisions that deteriorate the function and
the use of machines already sold ?

Because,  if they do not their whole philosophy of purpose and existence
upon which they were founded and upon which public trust has been based
becomes a lie.

That is why.

And you would not want the Happy Mac to be a liar would you ?

Neither should Apple !

Just look at that face !
http://ihnatko.com/wp-content/2008/02/happy-mac.jpg
http://www.tuaw.com/images/2005/11/switcher.jpg



-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

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http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N
From:Dan 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> […]  The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right
> now.  Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make
> those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales fall in
> to the toilet!  WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in
> that?

Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right now, 
not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the profits 
too.

Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable 
units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it: 
netbooks. Even electronic readers are starting to be sold in larger numbers.


Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They 
simply don't need *us* anymore.
Us being low-end-Mac owners.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 25, 2:13 am, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
 wrote:
>  That department has hundreds of Macs of all ages form the early Aught's to
> present. This department was put into a refurbed historic building and is
> state of the art for 3 years ago when it was completed. It replaces the
> building where the famous pisture was taken. You know the one Bruce. ( The
> rest of you can guess. I get tired of talking about it) .

Pray tell. You can't just be mysterious and allude to famous pictures
and get away with it. Spill.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 11:13 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

The ONLY reason our college has Mac support at ALL is me, and it's  
pure

happenstance that I work where I work, because I had some experience
programming, a teensy bit of database experience and a willingness  
to dive
into terra incognita to port the College's financial and alumni  
databases
from Ingres running on a Mini-Vax to a 'modern' Sybsase 4 system  
running on

a HP/Apollo minicomputer.



Sad. no media,journalism,art,music departments? How mundane !


I work at the College of Pharmacy at the University of Arizona. Those  
others are in the College of Arts and Sciences (a new college that was  
just created by jamming together the College of Liberal Arts and the  
College of Sciences as a money-saving move ).


They do have Macs, but the University has had it's state funding cut  
by 40% per student in the last ten years; and while we get to charge a  
special tuition, as a 'professional' graduate college, plus our  
research dollars, music is largely dependent on state funding.  A lot  
of 'ownership' in those colleges, as in 'yer own yer ownership'.


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Bruce Johnson  wrote:

>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
>  I took a video project  to the talent's home tonight. They brought out an
>> early Intel Mac laptop.
>> The files were Quicktime. The small resolution overview played fine. The
>> wide screen HQ files were only 1024 wide or so but played haltingly. Yuck!
>>
>> And streaming video off youtube was a joke. I do not mess with the
>> machines
>> of others. But there are 5 year old PCs that would not flinch at this. If
>> it
>> had been my machine I would have been very embarrassed. And Apple should
>> be
>> ashamed.
>>
>>
> Huh? How in the hell should APPLE be embarrassed by something screwed up on
> some random person's laptop? Are you implying that no Apple laptop of
> similar vintage can run streaming video?


Not at all. Am saying this should not happen on any newer Mac. Period.  Did
not say Apple should be embarrassed. I said if it was my machine I would be
embarrassed. and pissed.
At myself to begin with.

>
>
>  An Intel Mac !  And too messed up to cut the mustard. Owned by the wife of
>> a
>> highly placed professor with access to a department IT guy. And Apple Care
>> too boot.
>>
>
>
> Without even SEEING the machine, I'll wager it was a first gen Macbook with
> (places envelope to head a' la the great Karnak) 512 megs of RAM, running
> Tiger.
>

I will inquire tactfully.

>
> And sorry to burst your bubble about 'access to a department IT guy', but
> 90% of the 'department IT guy's out there are MSCE types who couldn't give a
> crap about some professor's laptop.
>

This campus is heavily Mac depending on the department. This prof is from
music. What would and IT in the music building choose. What would music
department heads choose. Do you think after spouting about my class
experiences here for 6 years I would not have some inkling of what choice of
platform various departments would be inclined to make.?
Especially since 6 years ago you had to go 45 miles to find a Mac seller
unless you knew a Mac store was here on campus. That was before all the ads
and the Winblowz Macs.

>
> The ONLY reason our college has Mac support at ALL is me, and it's pure
> happenstance that I work where I work, because I had some experience
> programming, a teensy bit of database experience and a willingness to dive
> into terra incognita to port the College's financial and alumni databases
> from Ingres running on a Mini-Vax to a 'modern' Sybsase 4 system running on
> a HP/Apollo minicomputer.
>

Sad. no media,journalism,art,music departments? How mundane !

>
> At the time we were limited to 4 macs on the network, because that's the
> minimum client pack Novell sold for Macs. In fact I was once officially
> reprimanded for providing Mac support.
>
> ALL of the Mac growth on our systems has come from the ground up, from the
> users, and even with my work, or official policy is 'Mac support is ad-hoc;
> you're mostly on your own'. This is pretty much typical for the vast
> majority of campus IT.
>
> _
>

I talk to our School of Mass Media and Journalism IT director ( saying the
title backwards because I like it that way) several times a week at
Starbucks. he even has a bevy of minions.and sports a straw cowboy hat and
goatee. He is always pleased to talk Macs and kept a Sawtooth on his desk,
not because he had to but because he liked it.

 That department has hundreds of Macs of all ages form the early Aught's to
present. This department was put into a refurbed historic building and is
state of the art for 3 years ago when it was completed. It replaces the
building where the famous pisture was taken. You know the one Bruce. ( The
rest of you can guess. I get tired of talking about it) . the least of them
being iMacs. and ranging to big Mac Pro edit suites and mid range models to
do audio and various chores. "Newsies " mostly get iMacs. But a room full of
FCP machines is awe inspiring as is a RAID just for video of stdents the
size of a cubic yard and a huge room for the building/class servers. Then
there is a separate room for the TV studio. Student run ( There is another
one on campus for the PBS station) Student TV is all Mac and all digital
with an Odrade etc. Only proprietary TV studio systems which require them to
use PCs like the title server have them. All recording from the digital
cameras in the studio is to the highest def HD mac system and it's own huge
server array. Droplets and scripts divide the recordings for archive and
other uses.

There are other macs on Campus., as i said depending on department and usage
. Software APP driven. I hear the 3D CAD and animation departmet ( separate
from all others !) uses Macs. Or at least the Profs. Can't Imaging students
would have different machines as the rooms are configured so the prof can
show software techniques.

But the demand is getting too great for machines. Enrollment is at a record
high and second i

Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Bruce Johnson  wrote:

>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
>  Her use of the conversational alternatives reminds me that were rich text
>> to
>> be legitimized on LEM we could use text formatting such as font or color
>> to
>> intercut and clarify for those who are challenged by comparing the
>> response
>> to the original.
>>
>
> I can tell you've never gotten a 'rich' text email from someone who used a
> font you didn't have and it ends up rendiring as one line of 3-point
> type...or the last entry here 
>
> ->



You mentioned that before Bruce. but you work in a University environment
where people get creative. Out here most people have most of the common
ones. Linux users have even more judging by my Debian variant.( I am a sad
and reluctant Linux user at best)

> -
>
-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 24, 3:34 pm, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
> (in my case: one of each...I never use Dashboard, couldn't live  
> without Spaces).

That makes two of us. I started using Desktop Manager in Tiger before
Leopard even reared its spotted head, and was very grateful when Apple
added the multiple simultaneous desktops to the OS via Spaces. It is a
multitasker's dream come true.

I have Dashboard disabled in all my Macs except my only Intel. I have
zero use for it, other than decoration. But I know people who really
use a lot of widgets all the time, so YMMV.

Felix

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

I took a video project  to the talent's home tonight. They brought  
out an

early Intel Mac laptop.
The files were Quicktime. The small resolution overview played fine.  
The
wide screen HQ files were only 1024 wide or so but played haltingly.  
Yuck!


And streaming video off youtube was a joke. I do not mess with the  
machines
of others. But there are 5 year old PCs that would not flinch at  
this. If it
had been my machine I would have been very embarrassed. And Apple  
should be

ashamed.



Huh? How in the hell should APPLE be embarrassed by something screwed  
up on some random person's laptop? Are you implying that no Apple  
laptop of similar vintage can run streaming video?


An Intel Mac !  And too messed up to cut the mustard. Owned by the  
wife of a
highly placed professor with access to a department IT guy. And  
Apple Care

too boot.



Without even SEEING the machine, I'll wager it was a first gen Macbook  
with (places envelope to head a' la the great Karnak) 512 megs of RAM,  
running Tiger.


And sorry to burst your bubble about 'access to a department IT guy',  
but 90% of the 'department IT guy's out there are MSCE types who  
couldn't give a crap about some professor's laptop.


The ONLY reason our college has Mac support at ALL is me, and it's  
pure happenstance that I work where I work, because I had some  
experience programming, a teensy bit of database experience and a  
willingness to dive into terra incognita to port the College's  
financial and alumni databases from Ingres running on a Mini-Vax to a  
'modern' Sybsase 4 system running on a HP/Apollo minicomputer.


At the time we were limited to 4 macs on the network, because that's  
the minimum client pack Novell sold for Macs. In fact I was once  
officially reprimanded for providing Mac support.


ALL of the Mac growth on our systems has come from the ground up, from  
the users, and even with my work, or official policy is 'Mac support  
is ad-hoc; you're mostly on your own'. This is pretty much typical for  
the vast majority of campus IT.


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

--
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:40 PM, John Callahan wrote:

Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about  
"IS the world about to change ?" is and although I have read  
thousands of comments about the subject failed to receive an answer.  
Either no one knows or I have somehow done something to offend the  
Lords of the Manor (I know that the ones formerly called "Nannies"  
have a new title but don't remember what it is). Would someone  
enlighten me please.


Short answer: No.

Longer answer: Yes, because the world ALWAYS changes.

What everyone seems to forget that this was a sneak preview of  
features that were the splashiest. Apple got a load of criticism that  
10.6 was short on features, even though it was a huge upgrade from the  
standpoint of performance and internal, under the hood stuff.


This also represents a integration of iOS elements back into the Mac  
OS. I predict that many of these features will be like Dashboard or  
Spaces: some folks never run them, some folks couldn't live without.  
(in my case: one of each...I never use Dashboard, couldn't live  
without Spaces).


Apple moving to the App Store was a business no-brainer. The longer- 
term implication that all the naysayers immediately leapt to is that  
this will be the ONLY means of getting apps on the Mac despite Job's  
explicit denial of that in the keynote neglects the reason for  
exclusivity in the iPhone apps store: To make sure nothing can screw  
up the basic phone functionality and to ensure that the iPhone doesn't  
crash, something far more important in the limited resource  
environment of the iPhone than the Mac.


Note: the iTunes store is NOT the only place to get video or music for  
the iPod and iPhone.


And no, Apple is not going to reverse itself and backport to the G5's,  
any more than Apple would back port OS X to the 68k (even though it  
originally started there).


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

Her use of the conversational alternatives reminds me that were rich  
text to
be legitimized on LEM we could use text formatting such as font or  
color to
intercut and clarify for those who are challenged by comparing the  
response

to the original.


I can tell you've never gotten a 'rich' text email from someone who  
used a font you didn't have and it ends up rendiring as one line of 3- 
point type...or the last entry here 


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

--
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

I took a video project  to the talent's home tonight. They brought out an
early Intel Mac laptop.
The files were Quicktime. The small resolution overview played fine. The
wide screen HQ files were only 1024 wide or so but played haltingly. Yuck!

And streaming video off youtube was a joke. I do not mess with the machines
of others. But there are 5 year old PCs that would not flinch at this. If it
had been my machine I would have been very embarrassed. And Apple should be
ashamed.

An Intel Mac !  And too messed up to cut the mustard. Owned by the wife of a
highly placed professor with access to a department IT guy. And Apple Care
too boot.

-- 
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 9:40 PM, John Callahan wrote:

> (snip)
> Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about "IS the
> world about to change ?" is and although I have read thousands of comments
> about the subject failed to receive an answer. Either no one knows or I have
> somehow done something to offend the Lords of the Manor (I know that the
> ones formerly called "Nannies" have a new title but don't remember what it
> is). Would someone enlighten me please.
>  John Callahan
>

First I heard about your plaint and i am the original poster. If and lords
of the manor are offended I am first on their s*it list.

The title subject headlined a one word post symbolizing the dilemma.

The word was " Lion?" and was an interrogatory as to the ramifications a new
OS VERSION
as opposed to an incremental upgrade. As the last incremental upgrade has
had people scrambling to adapt non supported hardware for a year. What
torture and suffering will Lion bring. whose machine will not boot anymore.
And will Apple let Tiger run or break it mercilessly  to send users to the
Apple store tearfully submitting all forms of plastic credit?

And on top of that and implied in the title were other announcements by The
Steve as to what new edicts will be imposed. As well as a day or so before
the pronouncements about the i world pocket enslavement system and the
superiority of that to the open source Android  free world devices which are
the hopes of the opposers to The Steve.

Even though his humble beginnings were with the rebels he now renounces
those fallacious doctrines and ridicules the codes they engender.

The former list nannies ( I still call them that) are now given the title "
Most Celestial Servants of the Mac Mother " Meetings are on alternate
Tuesdays in the hall behind the rectory.

I tried to



-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Powermac]

Still have that 8500 case and the machine works great, but I have
moved on to a G4 1.25Ghz Quicksilver for my fastest hobby mac (I am
still a PC user for boring work related stuff). While I don't use the
8500 daily like I used to, that machine has been 100% reliable using
the same components I purchased for it back in 2001. Maybe I am lucky
but my hardware (even the ancient stuff) just seems to work forever,
my issues tend to be brittle plastics (cosmetic). Few computer shops
make money around here, mostly they just fix stuff other people can't
be botherd to do (and mostly software). I feel sorry for owners who
take machines to a shop to get them fixed at $50 a pop and the tech
there is as bumb as a brick mindlessly swapping things until the
machine stays on for 30 minutes then charging crazy money for cheap
(and sometimes very used) parts. Its no wonder people just buy new all
the time.

My opinion is too many people want to make money sitting at home
creating content with a computer (and willing to do it for next to
nothing undercutting people with real talent). Many people would be
much better off not going to college and learning a trade. People will
allways need their roofs redone, plumbing fixed, oil changed, etc.

On Oct 23, 2:25 pm, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
 wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac  wrote:
> > Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
> > stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
> > work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
> > tools and using google to find fixes.
>
> Teo,
>
> How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS
> fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize
> how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that
> is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money
> part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly
> enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you
> want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You
> Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have
> made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux.
>
> I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you a
> little shop on the corner.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[John Callahan]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Dan wrote:


GUI


A graphical user interface (GUI), often pronounced gooey,[1] is a  
type of user interface that allows users to interact with programs in  
more ways than typing such as computers; hand-held devices such as  
MP3 players, portable media players or gaming devices; household  
appliances and office equipment with images rather than text  
commands. A GUI offers graphical icons, and visual indicators, as  
opposed to text-based interfaces, typed command labels or text  
navigation to fully represent the information and actions available  
to a user. The actions are usually performed through direct  
manipulation of the graphical elements.


Thanks Dan.

John Callahan
jcalla...@stny.rr.com
If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they went.
--Will Rogers
extreme positive = (ybya2)

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 5:40 PM -0400 10/23/2010, John Callahan wrote:
Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about 
"IS the world about to change ?" is and although I have read 
thousands of comments about the subject failed to receive an answer. 
Either no one knows or I have somehow done something to offend the 
Lords of the Manor (I know that the ones formerly called "Nannies" 
have a new title but don't remember what it is). Would someone 
enlighten me please.


Now is the time for panic.  Yes, the world is changing.  Apple is 
preparing a new version of OS X that will include new GUI stuff. 
Shock!  Horrors!  New GUI!  OMG!  Worse yet, it turns out that when 
Lion is released, the flux capacitors in your old Macs will implode 
-- leaving you nothing but burned out hulks.


Times are bad.  Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone 
is writing a book.

  ...Marcus Tellius Cicero, statesman/orator/writer, (106-43 B.C.)

- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[John Callahan]

(snip)
Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about  
"IS the world about to change ?" is and although I have read  
thousands of comments about the subject failed to receive an answer.  
Either no one knows or I have somehow done something to offend the  
Lords of the Manor (I know that the ones formerly called "Nannies"  
have a new title but don't remember what it is). Would someone  
enlighten me please.

John Callahan
jcalla...@stny.rr.com
If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they went.
--Will Rogers
extreme positive = (ybya2)

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/20 12:55, Kris Tilford so eloquently wrote:

I went to the Apple site to watch the streaming video of the
presentation and was rudely greeted with this:

"Streaming video requires Safari 4 or 5 on Mac OS X Snow Leopard or
Safari on iOS 3 or later."

I'm on a PPC G5 with 10.5.8 and current Safari v. 5.0.2 (5533.18.5) and
I CAN'T see the streaming video because it REQUIRES Snow Leopard 10.6!!!

Sometimes Apple is so insane.


Strangely enough I'm now watching the presentation on my G5 PM in 
OmniWeb no less. Perhaps someone screwed up the system requirements?


Tina

--

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Dan  wrote:

> At 6:25 PM + 10/23/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
>  On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac wrote:
>> Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
>> stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
>> work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
>> tools and using google to find fixes.
>>
>> Teo,
>>
>> How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS
>> fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize
>> how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that
>> is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money
>> part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly
>> enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you
>> want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You
>> Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have
>> made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux.
>>
>> I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you
>> a little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more satisfying for
>> me. And a lot less
>>
>> The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they
>> need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new
>> PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is
>> usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to
>> base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines
>> because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people
>> who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and
>> go low end.
>>
> [snip]
>
> Why can't people quote properly?  Read the above.  It makes little sense.



I just read an intercut personal message from a friend.

Her use of the conversational alternatives reminds me that were rich text to
be legitimized on LEM we could use text formatting such as font or color to
intercut and clarify for those who are challenged by comparing the response
to the original.

And in so doing plain texters could still read the posts. And LEM would make
a long delayed 20 year leap in what is allowed.



-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Dan  wrote:

> At 6:25 PM + 10/23/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
>  On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac wrote:
>> Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
>> stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
>> work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
>> tools and using google to find fixes.
>>
>> Teo,
>>
>> How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS
>> fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize
>> how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that
>> is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money
>> part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly
>> enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you
>> want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You
>> Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have
>> made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux.
>>
>> I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you
>> a little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more satisfying for
>> me. And a lot less
>>
>> The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they
>> need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new
>> PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is
>> usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to
>> base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines
>> because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people
>> who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and
>> go low end.
>>
> [snip]
>
> Why can't people quote properly?  Read the above.  It makes little sense.
>
>
> ___

I use the gmail client online. if you used it you would know how hard it is
( despite much trying) to intercut a conversation and eliminate the
attribution line. The web app has a mind of it's own. And I get tired of
fighting it.

As was said to me bluntly before by someone :) GET over it!










-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 6:25 PM + 10/23/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac wrote:
Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
tools and using google to find fixes.

Teo,

How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you 
say WAS fine until you actually try to make some money with them. 
Then you realize how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is 
wasted in a machine that is still problem fraught and unproductive.I 
guess the trying to make money part and the been doing that for way 
too long parts were not stated loudly enough. Hobbyist work arounds 
are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you want to CREATE the 
constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You Know me from 
this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have made 
myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux.


I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may 
get you a little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more 
satisfying for me. And a lot less


The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they
need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new
PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is
usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to
base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines
because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people
who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and
go low end.

[snip]

Why can't people quote properly?  Read the above.  It makes little sense.

- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/20 10:50, john Carmonne so eloquently wrote:

On Oct 20, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Fluxstringer wrote:


Lion ?


Will Lion be compatible with PPC G5?


Don't we wish. On second thought, maybe not.

Tina

--

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac  wrote:

> Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
> stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
> work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
> tools and using google to find fixes.
>

Teo,

How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS
fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize
how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that
is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money
part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly
enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you
want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You
Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have
made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux.

I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you a
little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more satisfying for me.
And a lot less

>
> The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they
> need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new
> PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is
> usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to
> base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines
> because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people
> who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and
> go low end.
>
> Preaching to the choir. But if The Steve remembers his anarchist hacker
roots and has any empathy for the struggling masses and any belief at all in
the bootstrap ability of  low end capitalism ( a theory we do not hear the
Chamber of Commerce preaching anymore, WHY ?) he would put out a $ 500
upgradeable,expandable Mac Mid Tower just to put his philosophy in the right
place. And do not tell me it would be at a loss. It is all established tech.
the development is already accomplished. Such a unit could be produced more
easily than a button can be designed for an iPad app. And would sell like
hotcakes.

If other companies can see to the development of reading and communication
for the third world why can't Apple throw a sop to the aspiring capitalist
bootstrappers? I do not think this is asking too much from The Steve.

And the good will and further consumer loyalty would bring returns for
decades. I don't care anymore if a system bought new is only viable for a
year or at the outside two ( horrific statement for a boomer right?) as long
as I have made enough money to replace it. Corporations want a steadier
cash-milk flow? Then let them provide an entry point to the dairy that is
not so damned a big step at the bottom. As long as the milk is good and
healthy what does the dairyman care about the size of the cow? ( content
creators know Creative Cow analogies very well !) Apple has fostered content
providers for decades and been rewarded well. Let them continue to be
supportive. And without the need to gouge the teats. Smaller gentler demands
will keep content creators working. And they are still a goodly portion of
Apple customers.



> The only people I know who make money with computers seem to be the
> people who repair them for others who have no clue. Most people make
> money with skills, computers are just tools and recently just media
> devices.
>
> I'm sad you do not know any content creators. Not even a guy next door
editing his band footage?  Or an uncle in an attic trying to make the
perfect porn compilation! Youngstown University must have some classes and
coffee shops. Tusc campus of KSU too. Some campuses even have Apple stores
to get the tools into the hands of students with mom-dad or otherwise clean
credit records and no qualms about the costs as they have no idea how
insanely hard it is to make a dollar. I know several here who now know.
Years after graduation with a G4 'book they are paying off and a pile of
student loan notices in the drawer. Some even sold their 'books or Minis for
the price of a few pitchers of Goose Island and a lap dance. But this is a
town where big careers have been made in media by a lucky few and anyway
Macs go where the hype industry goes.



Recently just media devices? Andy Warhol did a portrait at the Amiga
inception in what 1985? Todd Rundgren did a self made animated music video
on an Amiga back then too. Oh, yeah, you mean for " recently just media
devices for users of other platforms. I keep forgetting the dichotomy. But
you are right, computers are just tools. And if Stanley priced their hammers
and other tools  like Apple prices computers far fewer carpenters could ply
those skills.

>
-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.y

Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/20 17:03, Eric Herbert so eloquently wrote:

This sounds awful since I've been an Apple user since birth (Parents
bought their first Apple 2 weeks before I was born!) but if Apple
goes ahead with this "kindergarten" approach they show on Lion, I may
consider running Windows.


Don't do it, there's always linux! ;-)

Tina

--

iMac 20" USB 2, 1.25 GHz G4, 2 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB DDR
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 6:55 AM -0700 10/23/2010, Powermac wrote:

Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems.


Back in the 68k and PPC days, "low end" to me was any Mac not 
current.  These days, "low end" to me is all 68k and PPC Macs, plus 
all Macs with x86 processors - current and previous.


The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they 
need to make money.


True, to a point.  In this economy Macs are doing well while PCs are 
floundering -- so there must be something more to it.  Selling only 
poorly made SUVs, in this decade, is perhaps not a great idea.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Powermac]

Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor
stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to
work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic
tools and using google to find fixes.

The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they
need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new
PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is
usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to
base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines
because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people
who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and
go low end.

The only people I know who make money with computers seem to be the
people who repair them for others who have no clue. Most people make
money with skills, computers are just tools and recently just media
devices.

On Oct 23, 1:51 am, Richard Gerome  wrote:
> >From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 
> When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg and 
> McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches 
> whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired , tired, tired i say. ( and the shouting 
> masses behind me) I want an affordable mac that will do the job and be 
> upgradeable in increments as I can afford them.
> At one time a used 7xoo filled that need. but the old clunker hasn't the 
> horsepower to pull the tall gears of modern software even slowly.
> And saying it again for the upteenth time, Apple now actively working to 
> break the balls of even much more recent machines demoralizes troupes more 
> well heeled than I. so what chance do I have?
> Being poor does not seem to translate well even on Low End Mac pages ( If 
> they are so poor why do they have or want computer? (TO USE AS TOOLS TO MAKE 
> MONEY SO THEY WONT BE SO DAMNEDLY POOR !  THAT'sWHY !) [apologies to the 
> sensitive. But one needs to shout when communications are not heard.
> LOW END to me means poor.
> People too poor to afford new computers.
> People too poor to afford costly repairs.
> People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.
> If poor is not translatable then NEW END Mac would be a good place rather 
> than being tortured by the rants of the relatively indigent.
> Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Asking Apple for some GD slack is more 
> like it. Asking The Steve for a crumb from the table. Appealing to his 
> beginnings.
> Get it ?
>  
>
> --
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; 
> fluxstringerfluxstrin...@gmail.comhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringerhttp://www.facebook.com/FluxStringerhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunicationshttp://flux-influx.blogspot.com/http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.comhttp://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>   
>  
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power 
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is athttp://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtmland our netiquette 
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> For more options, visit this group 
> athttp://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-listScars only tell us where we have 
> been, they do not have to dictate where we are going...

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Stephen Conrad]

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Sarge3041969 wrote:

>  I am kinda
> wondering what
> we are supposed to do with all of these old Macs now that Apple has
> deemed
> them as useless? Maybe they will go the way of the old Mac Classics
> with
> everyone trying to make aquariums out of them?


Strongest Mac project!
Anyone else remember that? They used Classic and Color Classic Macs


> LOL Heck with them and
> their
> wallets, I will run My G4 until they stop selling electricity.
>

I am on my G4 now. My Smurf and 8600/200 are on the desk as well, just not
urned on at the moment.

Nearly every old Mac I have still runs great. I think only 3 Pluses, t he
5260/100 & the 5400/180 need to be worked on. O yes, the IIcx needs to have
RAM installed

>
>


-- 
Steve Conrad
Henrietta, MO 64036

"The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go
forth and claim our place in outer space."
   - Capt. Henry Gloval


(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Help Bunny Take Over The World!

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 22, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:




On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:59 PM, glen  wrote:




	The make do's is what what life is about. Since I done the do's  
all my life (not
	just computers) , I don't know what I would do without them.  -- 
Seriously

consider it; they make  life worthwhile.

Evidently "When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work  
arounds, Goldberg and
McGivering get very old and tiresome." mean nothing to you. 64  
years of it means  I'm SICK of it to me.


Same here.  The same ol' thing just gets old.  Gotcha beat by six years!


	I have lost two loved one's during the last year (stroke and  
cancer) and going
	though that  makes you really wonder what is important on this  
planet.


	OK "fear Apple" is a bad choice of words; "don't care"  would have  
been better

choice of words.

	As far "poor" goes, I just received my first meager SS check this  
month. Still
	wonder if I can pay the heating bills. I live in New England.  
Sorry if I set you

off. I do appreciate your concerns.  --glen

PS rants are OK by me --well within reason. -- ;)

Fair enough Glen. Hope you find a way to supplement your income.


Eventually, inflation, (year it's there everytime you visit the  
supermarket), will work you into the poor farm.




But The Steve only wants to help the already affluent.


Another poster a couple of days ago suggested bringing back Wozniak  
for creativity.  I think that Jobs is the creative one whereas Woz  
was the technical wiz kid.  At any rate, ol' Steve has moved  
innovation into the marketing arena and has lost touch with what  
Apple used to be all about...


JT



Go Back to School
Grant Funding May Be Available to Those Who Qualify
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc2c452ef7e03d1d87st04duc

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Richard Gerome]

Hey Wallace, Well said!!! I started out with a 1993 Performa 475 I bought used in 1996, it had a modoem you had to put your phone on to get online back then and sometimes it would take as long as 3hrs... I wasn't able to get a new one till Sears closed out their Apple Computers and sold them for 1/2 price in 2001 I bought my first and only brand new G3 366 Indigo Clamshell, paid $1100 after taxes for it and I am still using it after reworking it to get it to run Tiger now!!! I bought a used G4 1G processor and 1G memory TiBook in 2008 for $300 in a little beatup condition from craigslist and after checking ebay for parts to bring it back to new condition and tricking it out with faster HD and Super Dive and brandnew screen for another $225 I am almost ready to run Leopard on it, I just got a Disc tonight for $20 but I think I will run Tiger for as long as I can before I install it!!! The Clamshell, I use out on the road in coffee shops and such and it still atracts a lot attn from people and they can't believe I'm running Tiger in it and using my Sprint Broadband even though Sprint says I need 750 processor, it only has 466mhz with 576mb!!! Us poor people have to get creative and keep them going, I have some serious health issues and the computer has helped me out a lot with them for the past 11yrs so I will do what ever I can to surf the net!!!  Thanks to this group and other web surfing I can do a lot with my old computers now!!!   One thing I have learned about the Apple people today is they are starting to use there technoligy like a drug (Tech Pushers)... My computer is not a toy like others with their iPhones, iPods, iPod Touches and iPads... How can they go online with one of them anyway??? I can't even see the screens let alone whats on them...P.S. Oh yeah my car is 22yrs old with almost 350,000 miles on it with original eng and trans!!! Still gets me all over the country pulling a 19' 1966 Avion camper!!!-Original Message-
From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 
Sent: Oct 22, 2010 11:22 AM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:48 PM, glen <glenst...@yahoo.com> wrote:




>
>From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <fluxstrin...@gmail.com>

When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg and McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired , tired, tired i say. ( and the shouting masses behind me) I want an affordable mac that will do the job and be upgradeable in increments as I can afford them. 

At one time a used 7xoo filled that need. but the old clunker hasn't the horsepower to pull the tall gears of modern software even slowly.And saying it again for the upteenth time, Apple now actively working to break the balls of even much more recent machines demoralizes troupes more well heeled than I. so what chance do I have?

Being poor does not seem to translate well even on Low End Mac pages ( If they are so poor why do they have or want computer? (TO USE AS TOOLS TO MAKE MONEY SO THEY WONT BE SO DAMNEDLY POOR !  THAT'sWHY !) [apologies to the sensitive. But one needs to shout when communications are not heard.

LOW END to me means poor.People too poor to afford new computers.People too poor to afford costly repairs.People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.If poor is not translatable then NEW END Mac would be a good place rather than being tortured by the rants of the relatively indigent.

Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Asking Apple for some GD slack is more like it. Asking The Steve for a crumb from the table. Appealing to his beginnings.Get it ? -- 

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringerfluxstrin...@gmail.comhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/

http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringerhttp://www.facebook.com/FluxStringerhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications

http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/     



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Scars only tell us where we have been, they do not have to dictate where we are going...



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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Chance Reecher]

I like the way everyone keeps complaining about not being able to watch 
the Keynote... Apple does have an H.264 "Apple Events" podcast in 
iTunes, you know.


On 10/22/10 8:36 PM, Jeff Bequette wrote:


It was kinda annoying I could watch the speech on the iPhone, but not 
on my Mac...


Jeff




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:59 PM, glen  wrote:

>
>
>
> >
> >From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 
>
>
> When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg
> and
> McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver
> headaches
> whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired ...
>
> LOW END to me means poor.
>
> People too poor to afford new computers.
> People too poor to afford costly repairs.
> People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.
>
> Fear Apple? That is not the subject.
> Get it ?
>
> -
>
> Nah,
>
> The make do's is what what life is about. Since I done the do's all my life
> (not
> just computers) , I don't know what I would do without them.  --Seriously
> consider it; they make  life worthwhile.
>
>
Evidently "When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds,
Goldberg and
McGivering get very old and tiresome." mean nothing to you. 64 years of it
means  I'm SICK of it to me.

>
> I have lost two loved one's during the last year (stroke and cancer) and
> going
> though that  makes you really wonder what is important on this planet.
>
> OK "fear Apple" is a bad choice of words; "don't care"  would have been
> better
> choice of words.
>
> As far "poor" goes, I just received my first meager SS check this month.
> Still
> wonder if I can pay the heating bills. I live in New England. Sorry if I
> set you
> off. I do appreciate your concerns.  --glen
>
> PS rants are OK by me --well within reason. -- ;)
>

Fair enough Glen. Hope you find a way to supplement your income.

But The Steve only wants to help the already affluent.




>  --
> >Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
> >
> >fluxstrin...@gmail.com
> >
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> >http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
> >http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> >http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> >http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> >http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com/
> >http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> >You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those
> >
> >using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
> >The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette
> >guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> >To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> >For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>



-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
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http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Jeff Bequette]

On Oct 22, 2010, at 11:42 AM, Dan wrote:


At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is


I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad.

People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery  
life.  Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power  
pig.  So replacing it with SSD makes sense.


WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel  
parts - so they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3  
years or so.  For the *average* user that is overstocked with RAM,  
paging to the SSD will be minimal.  And since those users only do a  
trivial amount of photo editing...  probably the SSD will be ok, at  
least for the life of their AppleCare contract.



At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the  
thread about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and  
hurting low enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the  
NANO cycles etc. Much more important that you poor people concerned  
about how you can make money if Apple keeps up their S*it!
SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you  
indigent B77tard!


The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG part  
of Lion's "standard" environment.


Threads drift.  Get over it.

- Dan.
--


for my 2 cents, after using an iPhone and my kids newer Macbook Pro, I  
like the finger sweep and find myself sometime reaching to the screen  
to enlage items with the finger spread.  Of course soon realize  
doesn't work with this mac.  As for keeping up with the Jones's I have  
a 2004 DP G5 1.8 that has reached its system limit, but still does  
everything I need it to do.  I am debating upgrading  to a (used) 2009  
Mac Pro to keep up my kids (Daddy! it won't work!) but am willing to  
wait while the dust settles from the latest announcements.  It was  
kinda annoying I could watch the speech on the iPhone, but not on my  
Mac...


home user with a few thumb drives, SSD cards and older macs.

Jeff


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[glen]

>
>From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 


When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg and 
McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches 
whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired ...

LOW END to me means poor.

People too poor to afford new computers.
People too poor to afford costly repairs.
People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.

Fear Apple? That is not the subject. 
Get it ?

-

Nah,

The make do's is what what life is about. Since I done the do's all my life 
(not 
just computers) , I don't know what I would do without them.  --Seriously 
consider it; they make  life worthwhile. 


I have lost two loved one's during the last year (stroke and cancer) and going 
though that  makes you really wonder what is important on this planet.

OK "fear Apple" is a bad choice of words; "don't care"  would have been better 
choice of words.

As far "poor" goes, I just received my first meager SS check this month. Still 
wonder if I can pay the heating bills. I live in New England. Sorry if I set 
you 
off. I do appreciate your concerns.  --glen

PS rants are OK by me --well within reason. -- ;)









 -- 
>Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>
>fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com/
>http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>   
>  
>
>
-- 
>You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
>those 
>
>using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
>The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
>guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
>To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>


  

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Doug McNutt]

At 17:38 + 10/22/10, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote, or perhaps quoted 
someone:
I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad.

*** From a recent question posted on the AppleScript mailing list - which I 
trimmed quite a bit.

I've written a pretty extensive Quicktime editing script.. Everything works 
when I run the app just fine, I can select one or several source movies with my 
choose file with prompt.., etc, the script just chunks along happily.

I can't drop files onto the app. Dragging a QT movie does't activate the app in 
the finder, it doesn't select, nothing.

*** An answer from a knowledgeable regular poster:

Try saving the script in a new app file, and make sure you don't remove the 
.app extension.

And that's in a current Apple OS X system that is still declared "UNIX 
underneath". It comes from Next, Inc. which was likely unable to use 
Apple-patented ideas before Apple bought it.

UNIX does not now, and never has, used filename extensions in the OS. They are 
sometimes used by applications, such as gcc, but never required. Executable 
files are distinguished by an x in the permissions.

Apple was once proud of its freedom from required filename extensions. The 
really good idea was a file system that handled resource forks and type/creator 
codes. That AppleScript application should have type APPL and a unique creator 
code maintained in the file system. The codes would be initially in a BNDL 
resource for use by an installer or first use.

How in the world can we have regressed so far? Applications are not recognized 
by Finder so they can have files dropped on them unless they have a .app 
extension in the name of the file? How DOS can you get?  Can DOS-like be 
responding to customer desires? That is a "bad" customer desire, dammit.

The OS NeXt finder has to be told to show filename extensions which are hidden 
by default. Is that consistent with requiring extensions? In 10.3 .app 
extensions are not shown even if you ask for them.

But then, my AAPL is doing fine, thank you.
-- 

-->  Halloween  == Oct 31 == Dec 25 == Christmas  <--

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Illirik Smirnov  wrote:

> This is the reason that I really don't care about new Apple products.
> I use what I use, and when something of mine breaks I look for the
> thing that does what it used to do in the nicest, cheapest, and
> fastest way possible. New apple products don't do things that my old
> Apple (and other manufacturers) products do faster, nor nicer, nor
> cheaper.
>

Illrik

When Apple's changes effect that use of your old Mac you will know it. And I
think that will be soon if you do much work on it and it calls home.


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Dan  wrote:

>  At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
> Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what this thread is about and not the
> fact that I was inspired by " LION" and Apple/Jobs going deep to the dark
> side is what this is about
>
>
> I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad.
>
> People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery life.
> Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power pig.  So
> replacing it with SSD makes sense.
>
> WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel parts - so
> they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3 years or so.  For the
> *average* user that is overstocked with RAM, paging to the SSD will be
> minimal.  And since those users only do a trivial amount of photo
> editing...  probably the SSD will be ok, at least for the life of their
> AppleCare contract.
>
>
> At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>
> Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread
> about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low
> enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much
> more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money
> if Apple keeps up their S*it!
>
> SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent
> B77tard!
>
>
> The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG part of
> Lion's "standard" environment.
>
> Threads drift.  Get over it.
>
> - Dan.
>
>

Yeah talk about drives are THAT important.  Fiidling while Rome burns. The
sky is falling and I am looking for opinions of how fast and what the impact
radius of these Apple dictates changes might be and you want to remark in
the color of the dust.
Sure go ahead. No way I can stop you.

Talk about a figure - ground schism! Sheesh!

Even after someone tried to spin off the drive discussion in a courteous LEM
user term compliant way.

I can get over top posting. But thread hijackers and thread invaders still
piss me off.
Get over it.






-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Illirik Smirnov]

This is the reason that I really don't care about new Apple products.
I use what I use, and when something of mine breaks I look for the
thing that does what it used to do in the nicest, cheapest, and
fastest way possible. New apple products don't do things that my old
Apple (and other manufacturers) products do faster, nor nicer, nor
cheaper.

On 10/22/10, Dan  wrote:
> At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what this thread is about and not the
>> fact that I was inspired by " LION" and Apple/Jobs going deep to the dark
>> side is what this is about
>
>
> I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad.
>
> People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery life.
> Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power pig.  So
> replacing it with SSD makes sense.
>
> WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel parts - so
> they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3 years or so.  For the
> *average* user that is overstocked with RAM, paging to the SSD will be
> minimal.  And since those users only do a trivial amount of photo
> editing...  probably the SSD will be ok, at least for the life of their
> AppleCare contract.
>
>
> At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
>>
>> Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread
>> about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low
>> enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc.
>> Much more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make
>> money if Apple keeps up their S*it!
>>
>> SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent
>> B77tard!
>
>
> The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG part of Lion's
> "standard" environment.
>
> Threads drift.  Get over it.
>
> - Dan.
>
> --
>
> - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
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>


-- 
Sent from a computer running either the SPARC, Itanium, or PowerPC architecture.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

Title: Re: IS the world about to change
?


At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
wrote:
Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what
this thread is about and not the fact that I
was inspired by " LION" and Apple/Jobs going deep to the
dark side is what this is about

I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or
bad.

People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery
life.  Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power
pig.  So replacing it with SSD makes sense.

WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel
parts - so they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3 years
or so.  For the *average* user that is overstocked with RAM,
paging to the SSD will be minimal.  And since those users only do
a trivial amount of photo editing...  probably the SSD will be
ok, at least for the life of their AppleCare contract.


At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio
wrote:
Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can
do with your turning the thread about the complexities of Apple going
to the dark side and hurting low enders from the real meaning of SD
versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much more important that you poor
people concerned about how you can make money if Apple keeps up their
S*it!

SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics
don't you GET it you indigent B77tard!

The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG
part of Lion's "standard" environment.

Threads drift.  Get over it.

- Dan.
-- 

- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.





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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
>>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>


 On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
 fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta 
> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
>> > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
>> > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
>> > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
>> > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a
>> well-
>> > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).
>>
>> Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
>> purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.
>>
>> The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
>> Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
>> 
>>
>
>
> Uh, will they run LION ?
>  _
>


 Frickin' DUH !

>
> -- 
>

>>> HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny !
>>>
>>
>> Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread
>> about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low
>> enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much
>> more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money
>> if Apple keeps up their S*it!
>>
>> SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent
>> B77tard!
>>
>
> Who you callin' an indigent!
>
>>
>>

Apologies to all for turning this important thread about memory storage into
an irrelevant bunch of BS.
-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
>>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>


 On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta 
 wrote:

> On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
> > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
> > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
> > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
> > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a
> well-
> > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).
>
> Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
> purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.
>
> The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
> Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
> 
>


 Uh, will they run LION ?
  _

>>>
>>>
>>> Frickin' DUH !
>>>

 -- 

>>>
>> HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny !
>>
>
> Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread
> about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low
> enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much
> more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money
> if Apple keeps up their S*it!
>
> SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent
> B77tard!
>

Who you callin' an indigent!

>
>>
>>
>>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

 fluxstrin...@gmail.com

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
 http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
 http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
 http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
 http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
 http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/




>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>>>
>>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>>> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>>> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>>> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
>>> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>>
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
>> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>
>
>
>


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

-- 
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those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta wrote:
>>>
 On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
 > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
 > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
 > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
 > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a
 well-
 > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).

 Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
 purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.

 The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
 Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
 

>>>
>>>
>>> Uh, will they run LION ?
>>>  _
>>>
>>
>>
>> Frickin' DUH !
>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>
> HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny !
>

Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread
about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low
enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much
more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money
if Apple keeps up their S*it!

SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent
B77tard!

>
>
>
>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>>>
>>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>>> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>>> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>>> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
>>> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>>
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
>> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>
>
>
>


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

-- 
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those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
>>> > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
>>> > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
>>> > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
>>> > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-
>>> > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).
>>>
>>> Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
>>> purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.
>>>
>>> The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
>>> Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>
>> Uh, will they run LION ?
>>  _
>>
>
>
> Frickin' DUH !
>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>
HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny !



> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>>
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
>> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
>> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>
>
>
>


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

-- 
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those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <
fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta wrote:
>
>> On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
>> > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
>> > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
>> > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
>> > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-
>> > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).
>>
>> Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
>> purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.
>>
>> The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
>> Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
>> 
>>
>
>
> Uh, will they run LION ?
>  _
>


Frickin' DUH !

>
> --
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>
>
>
>


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta wrote:

> On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
> > translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
> > reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
> > the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
> > finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-
> > built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).
>
> Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
> purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.
>
> The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
> Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.
> 
>


Uh, will they run LION ?


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

-- 
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what this thread is about and not
the factthat I was inspired by " LION" and Apple/Jobs going deep to
the dark side is
what this is about

-- 
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Sri Gupta]

On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, "ah...clem"  wrote:
> translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
> reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
> the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
> finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-
> built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).  

Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were
purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006.

The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi,
Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:48 PM, glen  wrote:

>
>
>
> >
> >From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 
>
> >>
> Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the
> current "style" your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of
> mimeographed
>
> political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a semaphore
> subtexting and toning whatever it expresses.
>
> Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have,
> if you
>
> cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is
> compromised.
>
> Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify
> with.
> Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old
> days.
> >>
>
> Well, the mimeograph analogy is not the best but does serve a an example of
> waning technology.
>
> In the early 70's my political friends and I produced 2 & 3 color political
> flyers on a mimeograph. Xerox was a rather low quality black and white
> substitute at at that time. Even the Gestetner mimeo techs were amazed at
> what
> we could do with their machines and took samples of our work to their
> regional
> office. We were doing duotones on a mimeograph. It took Xerox another 30
> years
> to get a decent color copier. --And we were hard pressed to buy food in
> those
> days.
>
> I guess the point, is that if we are creative enough we will find solutions
> to
> the latest technological advances we are faced with regardless of our
> budget (or
> lack of). I have no fear of Apple or any other corporate giant. Just deal
> with
> it!! --glen
>

When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg and
McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver
headaches whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired , tired, tired i say. ( and
the shouting masses behind me) I want an affordable mac that will do the job
and be upgradeable in increments as I can afford them.
At one time a used 7xoo filled that need. but the old clunker hasn't the
horsepower to pull the tall gears of modern software even slowly.

And saying it again for the upteenth time, Apple now actively working to
break the balls of even much more recent machines demoralizes troupes more
well heeled than I. so what chance do I have?

Being poor does not seem to translate well even on Low End Mac pages ( If
they are so poor why do they have or want computer? (TO USE AS TOOLS TO MAKE
MONEY SO THEY WONT BE SO DAMNEDLY POOR !  THAT'sWHY !) [apologies to the
sensitive. But one needs to shout when communications are not heard.

LOW END to me means poor.

People too poor to afford new computers.
People too poor to afford costly repairs.
People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.

If poor is not translatable then NEW END Mac would be a good place rather
than being tortured by the rants of the relatively indigent.

Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Asking Apple for some GD slack is more
like it. Asking The Steve for a crumb from the table. Appealing to his
beginnings.

Get it ?







-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

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http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 7:46 PM -0700 10/21/2010, ah...clem wrote:
a HD's reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude 
greater than the best (most expensive) SSD currently available. 
SSD's have a finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't 
compare to a well-built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).


As I recall, the write-cycle for NAND is 200 to 300k per cell.  And 
the write cycle for HD sectors is something over 100M per.   Is that 
the right magnitudes & current ballpark?


if you made a SSD your boot drive (meaning you would be reading and 
writing more or less constantly) you can expect it to have a safe 
reliable life of 2-3 years.


I think 2 to 3 years is highly optimistic.  My pile of failing usb 
flash sticks aside, already, I'm seeing modded laptops with SSD 
failures -- after just a year or so of use.


My impression is that SSD and high write-cycle usage such as paging, 
swap, scrach, photo editing, etc, just Do Not Mix.


Now, the new crop of flash memory technologies are supposed to be 
better than the previous... lol



...This is a point of failure that we're going to have to keep our 
eye on, especially since we LEMfolk tend to deal with older / used 
machines that will be especially susceptible.  I think a lot of our 
troubleshooting is based on the idea that if a drive isn't acting 
very wonky, it's fine.  We're going to have to deal more and more 
with diagnosing file corruption issues.  Mac OS X's code signing 
feature will help with that, from the OS' POV.  But that won't 
protect our user data at all!


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[ah...clem]

On Oct 21, 11:13 am, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
> On Oct 20, 2010, at 10:51 PM, Tom wrote:
>
> > I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives
> > instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will
> > eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then?
>
> That's been predicted for about 20 years now.

translation, not anytime soon.  tho' a mechanical device, a HD's
reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than
the best (most expensive) SSD currently available.  SSD's have a
finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-
built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor).  if you made a SSD your boot
drive (meaning you would be reading and writing more or less
constantly) you can expect it to have a safe reliable life of 2-3
years.  you wanna put your money and data into one of those, knock
yourself up.  i have HD's that are over 10 y old, and still do not
have a single bad sector.  only trouble is they are small.  but then
again, so are the SSD's that cost less than a used car.

and btw, from what i've read, people here are not so concerned that
their old hardware and software are becoming obsolete, as they are
concerned that the new stuff coming out is actually inferior, even if
it is able to run the latest apps and stream the latest version of
flash, it's a dumbed down, disabled version of what they've come to
rely on, eg, the intel crap that replaced the altivec processors.
after 5 years, the intel chips still lack some of the inherent design
advantages of the altivec.  and PPC was allegedly abandoned because
motorola couldn't or wouldn't invest in the clock-speed war.  contrary
to the notion that technology will continue to advance exponentially,
notice how CPU clock-speeds have more or less plateaued since the
"competition" ended, compared the the five years prior to the switch
to intel?

there will only be justice, equality, and most importantly, sanity,
when all of the gordon gecko's have been put to the sword.  even the
ones named steve.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[glen]

>
>From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 

>>
Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the 
current "style" your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of 
mimeographed 

political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a semaphore 
subtexting and toning whatever it expresses.

Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have, if 
you 

cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is compromised.

Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify with.  
Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old 
days. 
>>

Well, the mimeograph analogy is not the best but does serve a an example of 
waning technology.

In the early 70's my political friends and I produced 2 & 3 color political 
flyers on a mimeograph. Xerox was a rather low quality black and white 
substitute at at that time. Even the Gestetner mimeo techs were amazed at what 
we could do with their machines and took samples of our work to their regional 
office. We were doing duotones on a mimeograph. It took Xerox another 30 years 
to get a decent color copier. --And we were hard pressed to buy food in those 
days.

I guess the point, is that if we are creative enough we will find solutions to 
the latest technological advances we are faced with regardless of our budget 
(or 
lack of). I have no fear of Apple or any other corporate giant. Just deal with 
it!! --glen


  

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 5:26 PM, Dan wrote:


At 5:48 PM -0600 10/21/2010, James Therrault wrote:

Exactly my sentiments and Apple may pay a price for the arrogance...


Yea, all the way to the bank.

AAPL is still trading over $300.  Have you taken your profits yet?




No.  I have never really had a taste for dabling in the stock  
market.  In fact, I think that the average investor could do better  
to buy a daily racing form then bet on the nags at the local track.


That said, I do own one stock acquired nearly fifty years ago that  
pays a pretty nifty dividend every quarter.  An old conservative,  
(originally family held), company that knows their market and how to  
maximize their resources.


OTOH, if I wanna gamble, I'll spend a week in Vegas...

JT




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 5:48 PM -0600 10/21/2010, James Therrault wrote:

Exactly my sentiments and Apple may pay a price for the arrogance...


Yea, all the way to the bank.

AAPL is still trading over $300.  Have you taken your profits yet?

- Dan.
--
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 9:41 PM + 10/21/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
Does it seem strange to anyone else that in an era when we hear a 
lot of lip service about the nobility of free enterprise and 
business efforts that a big company like Apple is out of tune with 
what small businesses need in a computer.


Strange?  No.  Apple, under L'Jobs, has shown no serious interest in 
the business market, small or large.  Sure, they've tossed the 
business market a few bones (eg: Exchange support), but that's 
nothing compared to what it really takes to get into business.


At this point, Apple is quickly selling *every* device (iPod, iPhone, 
iPad, and Mac) that they can manufacture.  Adding more markets, while 
there is no capacity to build more widgets, would simply create 
back-orders -- which would hurt their bottom line.


Where the hell is that $ 500 ( not kidding Steve, that is the price 
point) mid tower Mac with slots and room for at least 2 drives. 
Upgradeable CPU and RAM too.


Apple seems to have little to no interest in the low-end or mid-range 
market.  Old news.


If you need machines for your business, and cannot afford new Macs, 
then go hit the used and refirb market.  Those machines work 
perfectly well.


Think of it as Apple's belief in the power of the masses to 
bootstrap themselves into a full out Mac Pro.


If that was the case, then Mac Pro sales would dwarf the Mini and 
iMac sales by now.  But that's just not the case.


An ideological investment by The Steve into the wellbeing of the 
ground up nature of the economy would be a good sign and give those 
on the lowest tier some cash to please the corporate SUCK.


Is such needed?  The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right 
now.  Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make 
those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales fall in 
to the toilet!  WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in 
that?


- Dan.
--
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote:


--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Donnerstag 21 Oktober 2010N
From:Bruce Johnson 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com


On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote:


If you don't like it there are  alternatives: Windows, Linux,  
Chrome, just
getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple  
becoming

your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the
latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac.



Nope, not my quote. - JT


This is a general problem. I run Linux for this very reason. It  
never let me
down. Whatever computer hardware I was giving it, it would always  
do the job
right. The upgrading is step-by-step, no great leaps, but always a  
little…


And I cannot come up with another operating system that would let  
be move from
a PC (x86, 32-bit) to a Power Mac (PowerPC, 32-bit) to a Power Mac  
(PowerPC,
64-bit) to a PC (amd64, 64-bit) without having migration trouble.  
All the
software ran, regardless of the underlying architecture [except  
closed source
stuff like Flash :-( – I'd love open standards!]. All my personal  
files and
settings – there! You couldn't even tell the difference if it was a  
PC or a

PowerPC!


When someone buys a product like a PC with Windows, or a Mac with  
Mac OS, then
(s)he agrees to the license, right? With Microsoft and Apple this  
is a right

to USE this software, not to own it.

With Linux on the other hand… well, you even get the right to  
enhance it,
participate with it, … much too technical stuff anyway. But you may  
as well

simply just use it.


Linux has never and most likely will never drop hardware support,  
as long as

you report incompatibilities at the appropriate forums/lists. A Linux
developer will always try to solve this problem for you – as long  
as you are

willing to help in this process.



Just my solution around this “business problem” some of you are  
having with

Apple.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250



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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:



...comments about the struggle on the street level I can well  
identify with.
Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in  
the old days.



Now there's a mouthful.

Exactly my sentiments and Apple may pay a price for the arrogance...

JT




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Ashgrove wrote:


On Oct 21, 3:16 pm, James Therrault  wrote:

Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the
business that requires it.

Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain.

That said, a very substantial number of Mac owners own older Macs as
do I.  My newest is a 1.25GHz PowerBook, (bought on eBay in 2007),
that does just fine with Tiger. My other Mac is a Gigabit purchased
new in 2001.

Since you mentioned automobile, well that is often the case of
"keepin' up with the Jones'."

I don't subscribe to such since I drive really old cars the newest
being a 1983.  If they run good why change a good thing?


James, you seem to have mistaken me for somebody else. My point has
nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses and everything with the
fact that things are not made to last anymore. (FWIW, I drive a 1994.)



I didn't infer that it was you but just people in general.  There is  
a minority of us that think outside the box and look at numbers  
before we jump into a major purchase.


Of course, the majority might think me just a mite crazy...

JT




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Donnerstag 21 Oktober 2010N
From:Bruce Johnson 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote:

> If you don't like it there are  alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just
> getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming
> your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the
> latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac.

This is a general problem. I run Linux for this very reason. It never let me 
down. Whatever computer hardware I was giving it, it would always do the job 
right. The upgrading is step-by-step, no great leaps, but always a little…

And I cannot come up with another operating system that would let be move from 
a PC (x86, 32-bit) to a Power Mac (PowerPC, 32-bit) to a Power Mac (PowerPC, 
64-bit) to a PC (amd64, 64-bit) without having migration trouble. All the 
software ran, regardless of the underlying architecture [except closed source 
stuff like Flash :-( – I'd love open standards!]. All my personal files and 
settings – there! You couldn't even tell the difference if it was a PC or a 
PowerPC!


When someone buys a product like a PC with Windows, or a Mac with Mac OS, then 
(s)he agrees to the license, right? With Microsoft and Apple this is a right 
to USE this software, not to own it.

With Linux on the other hand… well, you even get the right to enhance it, 
participate with it, … much too technical stuff anyway. But you may as well 
simply just use it.


Linux has never and most likely will never drop hardware support, as long as 
you report incompatibilities at the appropriate forums/lists. A Linux 
developer will always try to solve this problem for you – as long as you are 
willing to help in this process.



Just my solution around this “business problem” some of you are having with 
Apple.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Mac User #330250]

There are two categories of people. The one always puts people into a 
category, the other just knows that this doesn't work.

[As a non native speaker I have the fearful feeling that this translation 
sucks…]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
Date:Donnerstag 21 Oktober 2010N
From:Brian Christmas 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> On 21/10/2010, at 7:51 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

> Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry,
> even tho it's not planned.

No. The obsolescence this is all about is business motivated – they 
deliberately make software advances only work with new models in order to sell 
those new models in order to make more money.

It could be done also with older computers, and there is a market for it. But 
this market is not profitable enough, so Apple decided to drop it completely.

There are other market concepts, like selling hardware only (or with any 
operating system, but without support from the hardware seller), that doesn't 
have the need for combining the hard- and software into one business. Like 
computers for Windows and Linux/BSD. And, +15 years ago, DOS and OS/2.

In such markets one can see enough support for older hardware (Windows: XP and 
7 Starter, e.g. on (new) Netbooks as well as older computers) and even better 
support throu specialized distributions in the Linux/BSD world.

What does this tell us?
People don't simply trash their older hardware simply because bleeding edge 
software –and an operating system is only a place to start– doesn't run on 
their machines anymore. Instead, they want to continue using it with 
applicable software, such as an operating system that suited their machines 
_and_ their needs then and will continue to do so new – but isn't abondoned 
like Mac OS X. Having bug fixes and current standards implimented is a basic 
need, also for “older” software like Mac OS X on PowerMacs. There is technical 
reason why this wouldn't be possible, but to desliberately drop support for 
these computers out of business reasons.

Linux/BSD proves that also very modern bleeding edge (in Linux terms) software 
technology works on old and older and oldest machines.

You can run Linux/BSD even on machines from the 80's without problems except 
that performance will naturally be limited. The software look and feel will be 
limited. But it runs. And there are plenty of software solutions that make an 
Intel 80486 with 50 MHz be a surf station for the internet possible without 
the fear of being a security hazzard like it would be with Windows 95 and Mac 
OS 7-9. And almost every bug-fixed version of standard tools will be available 
for it. [The advantage of open source, I guess…]

> It's basically bought about by the inquiring minds of talented people that
> love to invent new things; in our case, it's advances in processors,
> memory, communication (in it's many varied forms), programming, storage,
> and perhaps information control (if we let it). With these advances, the
> older hardware just can't cut the mustard, and the gaps seem to be
> constantly shrinking.

For writing a letter or reading news on the internet you don't need these 
advances.

> My heart bleeds for those of us who can't, for one reason or another, keep
> up with the immediate advances, but I constantly remind myself that I'm
> glad the world of computers did not freeze up with the advent of my old
> Apple IIe.

That sentence is nonsense and you know it.

> I'm lucky enough that I own an intel 24" iMac, but I'm ashamed
> to say I lustfully look at the new i7 27" iMacs, …

Don't be ashamed. There's nothing wrong with computing power. The i7 is a very 
powerfull CPU and the 27″ display rocks – although it is a glare display 
(yak!)

> … mainly cause some
> graphics I'm trying to write for an iPad app are too slow rendering on my
> core 2 duo. I'm lucky; I earn a small amount programming for Macs, that as
> a retiree keeps my family in iMacs. If I had to justify my requirements to
> my other halfs requirements only, I'd still own my old 1.8 G5, running
> 10.3, and my kids would own Windblown PC's (shudder).

This tells it all. You are a Mac desciple. There is nothing wrong with that 
but that you are not at all openminded.
Please, try something new for a change! Why is the step from Mac OS 9 to Mac 
OS X no problem, but the step from Mac OS X 10.6 to Windows 7 such an undoable 
thing? Why not once try Linux? How about FreeBSD? OpenBSD?

> Pity the PC users
> still stuck with XP, or the graphics heavy version of it, Windows 7.

Why is it always Windows?
Please accept the fact that Microsoft supports Windows XP until the year 2015. 
This will make Windows XP being a supported operating sy

Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

Does it seem strange to anyone else that in an era when we hear a lot of lip
service about the nobility of free enterprise and business efforts that a
big company like Apple is out of tune with what small businesses need in a
computer.
Where the hell is that $ 500 ( not kidding Steve, that is the price point)
mid tower Mac with slots and room for at least 2 drives. Upgradeable CPU and
RAM too.

Think of it as Apple's belief in the power of the masses to bootstrap
themselves into a full out Mac Pro. An ideological investment by The Steve
into the wellbeing of the ground up nature of the economy would be a good
sign and give those on the lowest tier some cash to please the corporate
SUCK. ( big bald baby that it is)

In other words enabling us the tools would help us and by helping us having
a good effect on the general economy.

It would also show that Apple is socially sensitive.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:15 PM, Kyle Hansen  wrote:

>  On 10/21/10 1:58 PM, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio" 
> wrote:
>
>
> Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify
> with.
> Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old
> days.
>
> Thank you.
> ___
>

Wow, getting hard in this thread to keep track of who said what.

You are welcome Kyle.

-- 
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Kyle Hansen  wrote:

>
>
>   It's usually people who make
> minor machine jumps that b*tch.  For example going from a 4 year old
> machine
> to a 3 year old machine instead of hitting the head of the curve.  If these
> people shelled out a few more bucks they would have a top of the line
> machine that would last them a long time.  I have a Tangerine iBook here
> for
> testing RAM and OS 9 problems.  It works great.  It's not Apple that is
> hurting you.  It's developers moving on to the next and better thing.
> Programs do not run well on old hardware for a reason.  Developers are
> developing for the future.  If you were a machinist would you be working on
> a better carburetor for a 73 Buick or a hydrogen fuel cell?
>

What has been expressed by me and some others here Kyle is we do not even
have that "few more bucks" we are strapped and on the soup line ( you think
I am joking right ?)
When I bought a 604 Mac I needed the newest but the graphics and file
formats i could generate slowly could work. Now I need at least that G5 I
needed 5 years ago but might sqeak by getting a 1.6 GHz unit. and it will
not do the work either. I feel like one of those guys in India who carve a
working motorcycle out of scrap with an axe. I cannot generate money fast
enough to buy even working vintage equipment and I think of anything
pre-Intel as vintage ! Anything Pre last year I think of simply as OLD !

You are right about developers but as I noted in the Amiga era hardware and
software ( formats and protocols included) which as Brian Christmas
points out is good in itself.
BUT actively sabotaging the viability of your past customers systems and
tightly controlling the ability of a free market for apps and other software
borders on the unAmerican. Where is free enterprise supposed to be as an
ideal when developers outside the loop are forbidden from practicing that
enterprise?

Read about what The Steve says about Android phones and their market and
users the other day. A former anarchistic phone hacker is now dissing the
freedom of open source. All considerations of performance or quality aside
is The Steve afraid an open market may compete better. or is his rant simply
a class/caste system demarcator meant to position the "i"WAY as the way of
the Ubermenschen ? Or is it simply a marketing ploy. I cannot help but
wonder about the workings of the Steve's mind.

Choice, which one would assume was a good quality in the " user friendly "
Mac era
( remember that cute guy?) has now become "bad" when people need a phone or
an operating system that fits their need ( i.e. user friendly )? No, I do
not think Linux is the answer. But Linux kernels tweaked by computer and
phone makers may be better some day than systems we cannot afford.

That hackintosh idea seems better these days too !

And the fuel cell car may be where it's at but it will be the government and
NOT BUICK that will keep your '73 off the road.

But it will be Apple that kills your Mac. Ask all of those who have
struggled to get Snow Leopard onto G5s and keep everything in tune and
working.


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Kyle Hansen]

On 10/21/10 1:58 PM, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio" 
wrote:

> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Richard Gerome 
> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>    Hey Brian, I agree with you on that it is cool but: why is it we can't
>> still run our old machines too without more trouble whenever they come out
>> with faster and better stuff??? I don't care if it's slower I just want to do
>> what I always did... They force us to buy the newer stuff by making our older
>> stuff run worse... I have a friend with an old TiBook running Panther who
>> can't use it anymore and he can not afford to upgrade it to Tiger and get few
>> more yrs out of it... He lives in South America and I've been looking for a
>> Tiger disc and more memory for him cheap enough for me to afford and mail it
>> to him so we can still stay in touch by emails and Scipe (mailing him letters
>> would prob take a week from the USA) and by then the news up here to him is
>> too late... Not only are some of us retired and living on fixed incomes some
>> of us had to file for bankruptcy and are not making anything at all... In his
>> case he lost his home and business and had to move back with his relatives
>> down there...  Us poor people always have to suffer and get creative just to
>> keep up... Today you need a computer to get a job because they are now
>> online... They don't even hire you now because they do a credit check too
>> ("hey I'm here for a job not a loan") I got into this credit problem because
>> of loosing my job in the first place... WTF is this all about???
> 
> Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the
> current "style" your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of
> mimeographed political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a
> semaphore subtexting and toning whatever it expresses.
> 
> Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have, if
> you cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is
> compromised.
> 
> Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify
> with.  
> Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old
> days. 
> 
Thank you.
---
The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be
when they start making vacuum cleaners
---


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Richard Gerome
wrote:

>
>
>Hey Brian, I agree with you on that it is cool but: why is it we can't
> still run our old machines too without more trouble whenever they come out
> with faster and better stuff??? I don't care if it's slower I just want to
> do what I always did... They force us to buy the newer stuff by making our
> older stuff run worse... I have a friend with an old TiBook running Panther
> who can't use it anymore and he can not afford to upgrade it to Tiger and
> get few more yrs out of it... He lives in South America and I've been
> looking for a Tiger disc and more memory for him cheap enough for me to
> afford and mail it to him so we can still stay in touch by emails and Scipe
> (mailing him letters would prob take a week from the USA) and by then the
> news up here to him is too late... Not only are some of us retired and
> living on fixed incomes some of us had to file for bankruptcy and are not
> making anything at all... In his case he lost his home and business and had
> to move back with his relatives down there...  Us poor people always have to
> suffer and get creative just to keep up... Today you need a computer to get
> a job because they are now online... They don't even hire you now because
> they do a credit check too ("hey I'm here for a job not a loan") I got into
> this credit problem because of loosing my job in the first place... WTF is
> this all about???
>

Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the
current "style" your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of
mimeographed political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a
semaphore subtexting and toning whatever it expresses.

Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have, if
you cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is
compromised.

Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify
with.
Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old
days.


-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer

fluxstrin...@gmail.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 21, 2:27 pm, Kyle Hansen  wrote:
> Listen, I feel your pain, I have an SE-30 sitting right here.  I know this
> is Lowendmac, but the Sawtooth G4 should be considered vintage at this
> point. Back when I was nannying the PM 8500 list machines that were a three
> or so years back were considered vintage.  It's usually people who make
> minor machine jumps that b*tch.  For example going from a 4 year old machine
> to a 3 year old machine instead of hitting the head of the curve.  If these
> people shelled out a few more bucks they would have a top of the line
> machine that would last them a long time.  I have a Tangerine iBook here for
> testing RAM and OS 9 problems.  It works great.  It's not Apple that is
> hurting you.  It's developers moving on to the next and better thing.
> Programs do not run well on old hardware for a reason.  Developers are
> developing for the future.  If you were a machinist would you be working on
> a better carburetor for a 73 Buick or a hydrogen fuel cell?

Kyle, all that is good and dandy. But I'm not worried about the
obsolescence of a Gigabit, but of a Core 2 Duo, and is less that than
the fact that a lot of this obsolescence is forced on you. It has
nothing to do with your hardware, which can do things that your
software doesn't allow them to do, so you are forced to buy new...

And, by the way, Netflix envelopes are good and dandy, but what's
great about streamed video is that you can watch the movies that are
being showed in the Cannes Film Festival, right away. What worries me
is that Amazon sells you a digital movie, or a digital book, and does
not allow you to download it. You are sold the right to stream it. If
that's the future, it's downright scary.



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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 21, 3:16 pm, James Therrault  wrote:
> Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the  
> business that requires it.
>
> Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain.
>
> That said, a very substantial number of Mac owners own older Macs as  
> do I.  My newest is a 1.25GHz PowerBook, (bought on eBay in 2007),  
> that does just fine with Tiger. My other Mac is a Gigabit purchased  
> new in 2001.
>
> Since you mentioned automobile, well that is often the case of  
> "keepin' up with the Jones'."
>
> I don't subscribe to such since I drive really old cars the newest  
> being a 1983.  If they run good why change a good thing?

James, you seem to have mistaken me for somebody else. My point has
nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses and everything with the
fact that things are not made to last anymore. (FWIW, I drive a 1994.)

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Kyle Hansen]

On 10/21/10 12:16 PM, "James Therrault"  wrote:

> Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the
> business that requires it.
> 
> Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain.

Actually I work for a number of large Bay Area firms and they are switching
to Mac's.  Including the Government.  Lawrence Livermore Labs.  They want
the security and stability that the Mac OS has to offer.  Windoze may rule
that domain for now but not forever.
---
The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be
when they start making vacuum cleaners
---



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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Kyle Hansen]

On 10/21/10 10:57 AM, "Ashgrove"  wrote:

> On Oct 21, 12:21 pm, Bruce Johnson 
> wrote:
>> Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds
>> to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the
>> very thing that's  made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to
>> provide that free ride to the folks still 
> 
> The issue here --for me at least, and for several people here as
> well-- is not the natural course of life, or the too rapid pace of
> computer development.

The golden rule.  Computers processor speeds and storage space will double
approximately every 18 months.  If you are using a Mac that is 5 years old
consider it a car that has 500,000 miles on it.  I have had people tell me
as an Apple Service Technician " I just bought this" so many times I could
spit.   Then I read the serial number and tell them when their computer was
built.  Hard drives are mechanical and die after a period of time.

> I'm just talking streamed video here, which is just the top of the
> iceberg. 

My Netflix come in little red envelopes in the mail.

> Oh, well. Perhaps the whole world is just changing. People thought of
> a Mac in the same way they thought or a nice car: Buy quality, it'll
> last you forever. Nowadays people who really want quality and can
> afford it simply lease their cars...

You are aware that you can lease a Mac right?

Listen, I feel your pain, I have an SE-30 sitting right here.  I know this
is Lowendmac, but the Sawtooth G4 should be considered vintage at this
point. Back when I was nannying the PM 8500 list machines that were a three
or so years back were considered vintage.  It's usually people who make
minor machine jumps that b*tch.  For example going from a 4 year old machine
to a 3 year old machine instead of hitting the head of the curve.  If these
people shelled out a few more bucks they would have a top of the line
machine that would last them a long time.  I have a Tangerine iBook here for
testing RAM and OS 9 problems.  It works great.  It's not Apple that is
hurting you.  It's developers moving on to the next and better thing.
Programs do not run well on old hardware for a reason.  Developers are
developing for the future.  If you were a machinist would you be working on
a better carburetor for a 73 Buick or a hydrogen fuel cell?
---
The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be
when they start making vacuum cleaners
---



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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 10:54 AM -0600 10/21/2010, Doug McNutt wrote:

If we lose the optical disk what will we have for archiving?


External burners, hard drives, tape drives, and The Cloud -- just 
like we do now.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 11:57 AM, Ashgrove wrote:



The issue here --for me at least, and for several people here as
well-- is not the natural course of life, or the too rapid pace of
computer development. We're talking about "forced" obsolescence, which
Apple seems to be perfecting into a form of art. The fact that someone
could watch Job's keynote on a G4 running Ubuntu, or that I can watch
Netflix streamed movies on my pitiful old ThinkPad but not in my newer
and much more powerful 17" PowerBook, is pretty telling.

I'm just talking streamed video here, which is just the top of the
iceberg. (And I'm aware that Netflix is not exactly the best example,
because it depends on a Microsoft plugin --but who knows? Perhaps
Microsoft is in cahoots with Apple in that one.)

Oh, well. Perhaps the whole world is just changing. People thought of
a Mac in the same way they thought or a nice car: Buy quality, it'll
last you forever. Nowadays people who really want quality and can
afford it simply lease their cars, because that way they'll always
have a top of the line automobile. Perhaps the computer world has gone
full circle, and we'll end up leasing terminals to access a cloud
supercomputer hidden somewhere in California and fully under the thumb
of Jobs, or Gates, or whichever computer Big Brother we'll choose to
surround ourselves to...



Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the  
business that requires it.


Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain.

That said, a very substantial number of Mac owners own older Macs as  
do I.  My newest is a 1.25GHz PowerBook, (bought on eBay in 2007),  
that does just fine with Tiger. My other Mac is a Gigabit purchased  
new in 2001.


Since you mentioned automobile, well that is often the case of  
"keepin' up with the Jones'."


I don't subscribe to such since I drive really old cars the newest  
being a 1983.  If they run good why change a good thing?


JT


SHOCKING: Samsung 46" 3D LED TV for $84.95
SPECIAL REPORT: High ticket items are being auctioned for an incredible 90% off!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc0839db72ba39356bst04duc

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Dan]

At 9:26 AM -0700 10/20/2010, Fluxstringer wrote:

Lion ?


Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Leopard, Snow Leopard ... all cats 
known for their sleek stealthy attack speed.


Tiger ... a more full featured cat, but still a good hunter.

Lion ... hum.  Notice that the pic Apple has chosen is the male - the 
fatter one that lays around on the veldt waiting for the females to 
do hunting.


Be afraid.  Be very afraid.


At 1:55 PM -0500 10/20/2010, Kris Tilford wrote:
I went to the Apple site to watch the streaming video of the 
presentation and was rudely greeted with this:
"Streaming video requires Safari 4 or 5 on Mac OS X Snow Leopard or 
Safari on iOS 3 or later."


Typical Apple marketing stupidity.  sigh.


At 6:03 PM -0500 10/20/2010, Eric Herbert wrote:
I have to say, I think Apple's finally lost it.  Trying to turn the 
operating system into an iPad?  Someone save us.  I like their OS as 
is, and being an Intel user, I do like Snow Leopard.  That said, I 
think Lion is going to blow if they keep up all this "Fisher Price" 
nonsense.  It seems that Apple forgets that some people actually use 
their computer for more than consumer tasks!


iOS is a stripped down Snow Leopard with a new GUI.  It makes sense 
that those features should be rolled back into the original OS. 
Then, when the processors in the smaller devices catch up, they'll be 
able to run the full OS.  And by the same token, as the giant *high 
resolution* touch screens become available, the desktops running the 
full OS will need that support.


The loss of PPC support is tragic since there are so many PPC 
machines in use still (at my work there's only 1 Intel Mac in the 
whole building, the other 7 are all G4 machines) and they're all 
still perfectly functional.  My main desktop is still a G5 DP and 
it's still as usable as anything else I have.


Yea.  But there is no business case (aka profit) for Apple to 
continue to support that old platform.



At 8:38 PM -0400 10/20/2010, admin wrote:
That simple computer mouse (albeit with ever greater optical DPI, 
etc and much ingenuity behind it's apparent simplicity) is one of 
the greatest proprioceptive and information processing means ever 
devised by the mind of man.  It has to be thousands of times more 
precise-and even quicker-than flashing our finger in front of our 
face to work with a computer.


For most people, a track pad and gestures is more than ample.  Don't 
think for a moment that that means that Apple will drop support for 
other pointing devices!  The pro market still uses high-res pads and 
track balls and mice and such - and always will.


Having the multi-touch capabilities in OS X tho wow.  There are 
some great things that can be done!  Air gestures, optic (eye) 
targeting for heads-up displays, etc.  Great potential, once you have 
the primitive support built-in!


FWIW,
- Dan.
--
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 21, 12:21 pm, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
> Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds 
> to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the 
> very thing that's  made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to 
> provide that free ride to the folks still 

The issue here --for me at least, and for several people here as
well-- is not the natural course of life, or the too rapid pace of
computer development. We're talking about "forced" obsolescence, which
Apple seems to be perfecting into a form of art. The fact that someone
could watch Job's keynote on a G4 running Ubuntu, or that I can watch
Netflix streamed movies on my pitiful old ThinkPad but not in my newer
and much more powerful 17" PowerBook, is pretty telling.

I'm just talking streamed video here, which is just the top of the
iceberg. (And I'm aware that Netflix is not exactly the best example,
because it depends on a Microsoft plugin --but who knows? Perhaps
Microsoft is in cahoots with Apple in that one.)

Oh, well. Perhaps the whole world is just changing. People thought of
a Mac in the same way they thought or a nice car: Buy quality, it'll
last you forever. Nowadays people who really want quality and can
afford it simply lease their cars, because that way they'll always
have a top of the line automobile. Perhaps the computer world has gone
full circle, and we'll end up leasing terminals to access a cloud
supercomputer hidden somewhere in California and fully under the thumb
of Jobs, or Gates, or whichever computer Big Brother we'll choose to
surround ourselves to...






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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[John Callahan]

I'm confused! What is this change that so many people are talking about?
Thanks
On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Richard Gerome wrote:





Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?




I'm not as young as I used to be But
I'm not as old as I'm going to be!
SO WATCH IT!!!

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Ted Treen]

Bruce Johnson wrote:

On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote:

   

Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, "We are now in 
Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written, Apple won't be in it."  If 
one follows stocks at all, Dell's been languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the 
stratosphere.  But this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing.  Just 
look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales below expectations, 
(regardless of reason).
 

Do not EVER convolute Wall Street stock fluctuations with 'self-destructing'. 
The biggest lie in capitalism today is the concept of a 'rational market'.

Or as Kay put it succinctly in 'Men in Black": "A person is smart. People are dumb, 
panicky dangerous animals and you know it. "

A company can do things that cause it to self-destruct, and the stock market 
will notice it, but the reason that Apple didn't sell as many iPads as Wall 
Street analysts (not Apple, btw) predicted is because Apple COULD NOT MAKE THEM 
FAST ENOUGH. Apple announced their most profitable quarter EVER in the history 
of the company, and investors responded by complaining that it wasn't *enough* 
profit. (This said in the midst of the worst economic slowdown since the Great 
Depression.)

I haven't seen this much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments 
since, I don't know, the introduction of Intel macs or even the intro of OS X 
and the horrifying realization that you had a user account on your own computer.

Jeebus, get the heck over yourselves, folks.

Computing technology is a tsunami, and it always has been. You surf it or get 
off, but regardless of what you do it moves inexorably forward. No one is going 
to come stomp on your old Macs to render them inoperable the moment 10.7 comes 
out, and it's not APPLE making Adobe write Flash plugins that don't work with 
PPC macs or OS 9, etc etc etc.

Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds to 
bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the very 
thing that's  made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to provide 
that free ride to the folks still running Windows NT 2000 and such.

If you don't like it there are  alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just 
getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming your 
overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the latest and 
greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac.

You just sound like whiny brats with exaggerated senses of entitlement. If you don't 
like what Apple is doing, vote with your wallet. Vote with your feet. This is how to 
effectively do it. Wailing on and on about how Steve Jobs is oppressing you and 
shackling you into slavery is more suited to the 'Leeeave Britney Aloone" 
style of youtube drama.

   

Good grief: a rational and well-expressed argument.

Yes, I was happy with my early 2005 G5 dual 2.0. Then I found it 
essential to run CS5, and to become experienced with Snow Leopard. So I 
have a 2009 MacPro. Best beloved has the G5 now, and it is so far, more 
than adequate for her needs.


I will continue with my MacPro as long as it is viable:- note, viable 
not feasible. This takes into account time spent on 'maintenance', speed 
of operation and compatibility with my employer's Macs, for which I have 
assumed responsibility (IT are scared, if it isn't Windows...).


If I only perused the web, wrote the odd letter etc., I could still be 
running my old Beige G3 & Panther, but although there are always new 
developments to which my initial reaction is not ecstatic, it usually 
isn't too long before a bit of lateral thinking shows me where it can be 
of great use to me.


Jaguar, BMW or any other "prestige" motor manufacturer does not stay in 
business by ensuring they have a sub £5,000 offering, or that their 
newest model has most of its components interchangeable with those in a 
2002 model.


Yes, that might seem harsh to many of those of more modest means - 
believe me, acquiring my MacPro entailed lots of sacrifices - some still 
ongoing. But overall, it is and will continue to be worth it.


Just my 2 pennyworth

Ted

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:21 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:



On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote:

Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, "We  
are now in Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written,  
Apple won't be in it."  If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been  
languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the stratosphere.  But  
this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing.  Just  
look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales  
below expectations, (regardless of reason).


Do not EVER convolute Wall Street stock fluctuations with 'self- 
destructing'. The biggest lie in capitalism today is the concept of  
a 'rational market'.


And that's exactly why a company/organization can self destruct.


Or as Kay put it succinctly in 'Men in Black": "A person is smart.  
People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. "


Again, my point is verified.


A company can do things that cause it to self-destruct, and the  
stock market will notice it, but the reason that Apple didn't sell  
as many iPads as Wall Street analysts (not Apple, btw) predicted is  
because Apple COULD NOT MAKE THEM FAST ENOUGH.


Notice I did say, "regardless of reason."  I read Bloomberg too.


Apple announced their most profitable quarter EVER in the history  
of the company, and investors responded by complaining that it  
wasn't *enough* profit. (This said in the midst of the worst  
economic slowdown since the Great Depression.)


Nothing new here.  The market is irrational.


I haven't seen this much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of  
garments since, I don't know, the introduction of Intel macs or  
even the intro of OS X and the horrifying realization that you had  
a user account on your own computer.


Really?  I think that you may be drinking too much koolaid.



Jeebus, get the heck over yourselves, folks.


So nothing but the corporate line for you, eh?


Computing technology is a tsunami, and it always has been. You surf  
it or get off, but regardless of what you do it moves inexorably  
forward. No one is going to come stomp on your old Macs to render  
them inoperable the moment 10.7 comes out, and it's not APPLE  
making Adobe write Flash plugins that don't work with PPC macs or  
OS 9, etc etc etc.


Maybe Jobs will get Al Gore to do that... "render them inoperable.."


Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no  
grounds to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free  
ride. This is the very thing that's  made Microsoft the lumbering  
dinosaur it is, having to provide that free ride to the folks still  
running Windows NT 2000 and such.


Hey, NT was the last, (and maybe first), decent windoze OS.


If you don't like it there are  alternatives: Windows, Linux,  
Chrome, just getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing  
about Apple becoming your overlord and locking you down and denying  
you your right to the latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year- 
old Mac.


Wow, somebody musta really peed in you cornflakes!  I cannot recall  
anyone here demanding the latest and greatest for their old Macs.   
Just continued usability and a hint of support is all.



You just sound like whiny brats with exaggerated senses of  
entitlement. If you don't like what Apple is doing, vote with your  
wallet. Vote with your feet. This is how to effectively do it.  
Wailing on and on about how Steve Jobs is oppressing you and  
shackling you into slavery is more suited to the 'Leeeave Britney  
Aloone" style of youtube drama.


This is the most irrational post that I have seen from you Bruce.   
Entitlement has nothing to do with it. Call it the nurturing of the  
Mac culture.


As for leaving it to utube drama, you've done quite well here...

JT




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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Doug McNutt]

If we lose the optical disk what will we have for archiving? Financial data 
coming from the bank is rapidly moving to computer files. What about those 
pictures we take to help in filing a fire insurance claim? Your last decade of 
income tax filings.

Home-written CD-ROMs are not the best but they seem to be pretty good for half 
a decade and perhaps longer if protected from the environment.

Pressed optical disks are very much better but not suitable for the likes of 
personal financial records because of initial expense.

Floppies are terrible. So is magnetic tape.

Flash, which is stored charge on MOSFET gates, will never be archival.

Resistors that exhibit two crystal states have interesting possibilities but 
are quite a way off.

Off-site storage as encrypted files on a trusted server with associated charges 
is available but costly and subject to government interference.

Printed paper in a safe deposit box seems to be the best except for icons 
chiseled into granite.

Punched paper rolls of piano music are the highest fidelity source of old music.

What are Apple Entertainment, Inc. and the Lion King (Disney, Pixar) doing to 
help?
-- 

-->  Halloween  == Oct 31 == Dec 25 == Christmas  <--

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote:

> Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, "We are now in 
> Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written, Apple won't be in it." 
>  If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been languishing in the cellar while 
> Apple's in the stratosphere.  But this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from 
> self destructing.  Just look at last week's girations after Apple revealed 
> iPad sales below expectations, (regardless of reason).

Do not EVER convolute Wall Street stock fluctuations with 'self-destructing'. 
The biggest lie in capitalism today is the concept of a 'rational market'. 

Or as Kay put it succinctly in 'Men in Black": "A person is smart. People are 
dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. "

A company can do things that cause it to self-destruct, and the stock market 
will notice it, but the reason that Apple didn't sell as many iPads as Wall 
Street analysts (not Apple, btw) predicted is because Apple COULD NOT MAKE THEM 
FAST ENOUGH. Apple announced their most profitable quarter EVER in the history 
of the company, and investors responded by complaining that it wasn't *enough* 
profit. (This said in the midst of the worst economic slowdown since the Great 
Depression.)

I haven't seen this much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments 
since, I don't know, the introduction of Intel macs or even the intro of OS X 
and the horrifying realization that you had a user account on your own computer.

Jeebus, get the heck over yourselves, folks.

Computing technology is a tsunami, and it always has been. You surf it or get 
off, but regardless of what you do it moves inexorably forward. No one is going 
to come stomp on your old Macs to render them inoperable the moment 10.7 comes 
out, and it's not APPLE making Adobe write Flash plugins that don't work with 
PPC macs or OS 9, etc etc etc.

Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds to 
bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the very 
thing that's  made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to provide 
that free ride to the folks still running Windows NT 2000 and such.

If you don't like it there are  alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just 
getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming your 
overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the latest and 
greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac.

You just sound like whiny brats with exaggerated senses of entitlement. If you 
don't like what Apple is doing, vote with your wallet. Vote with your feet. 
This is how to effectively do it. Wailing on and on about how Steve Jobs is 
oppressing you and shackling you into slavery is more suited to the 'Leeeave 
Britney Aloone" style of youtube drama.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[James Therrault]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:38 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:




On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:02 AM, James Therrault  
 wrote:



snip




Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes,  
(68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes  
certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a  
creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control.  (How's  
that for a new word? )


If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may  
run smack into a brick wall.


It's just how things work...


And the " predictive logic " operating system and hardware may well  
be that brick wall. For MS too.



I think that MS has already become a mature organization.  They  
simply don't have a "Jobs" type leadership that truly innovates.


Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, "We  
are now in Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written,  
Apple won't be in it."  If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been  
languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the stratosphere.  But  
this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing.  Just  
look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales below  
expectations, (regardless of reason).


Apple with all its cash needs to take care of its customers/followers  
better.  There's only so much abuse that folks will tolerate and in  
my view, they are reaching that point...


JT






Mortgage Rates Hit 3.25%
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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:20 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

> This may help.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model
> 

You DO know that research has shown her model is as valid as the Phlogiston 
model of chemistry, right? Well-reasoned, meticulously detailed and utterly 
fractal in it's wrongness...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 20, 2010, at 10:51 PM, Tom wrote:

> I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives
> instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will
> eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then?

That's been predicted for about 20 years now. Hard drives are one of the few 
mechanical devices left on computers, and the ones most prone to catastrophic 
failure (if your optical drive, keyboard or mouse dies, you can keep working, 
if the HDD goes so does your data )

They're finally coming down in price thanks, at least in part, to Apple, whose 
ginormous purchases of flash memory have helped bring about the economies of 
scale needed.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Richard Gerome]

   Hey Brian, I agree with you on that it is cool but: why is it we can't still run our old machines too without more trouble whenever they come out with faster and better stuff??? I don't care if it's slower I just want to do what I always did... They force us to buy the newer stuff by making our older stuff run worse... I have a friend with an old TiBook running Panther who can't use it anymore and he can not afford to upgrade it to Tiger and get few more yrs out of it... He lives in South America and I've been looking for a Tiger disc and more memory for him cheap enough for me to afford and mail it to him so we can still stay in touch by emails and Scipe (mailing him letters would prob take a week from the USA) and by then the news up here to him is too late... Not only are some of us retired and living on fixed incomes some of us had to file for bankruptcy and are not making anything at all... In his case he lost his home and business and had to move back with his relatives down there...  Us poor people always have to suffer and get creative just to keep up... Today you need a computer to get a job because they are now online... They don't even hire you now because they do a credit check too ("hey I'm here for a job not a loan") I got into this credit problem because of loosing my job in the first place... WTF is this all about???-Original Message-
From: Brian Christmas 
Sent: Oct 21, 2010 5:40 AM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?

On 21/10/2010, at 7:51 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Fluxstringer <fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Lion ?
---It looks like my one word post and simple title question have hit some nerves.

Money talks and BS does not want to pay to play ( or cannot afford to ) I would step up and buy the stuff if I could afford it Steve. But you who introduced home computers at an affordable price have lost sight of those of us with modest or even less than modest means.

And your media hype rant against Android still seems way out of character for a phone hacker who now evidently does not think consumers should buy phones they can hack themselves to their own need. Are we going back to the " you can have it in any color as long as it is what we want to sell " days? ( more on that in the LEMlist group)

But yes the world needs great computers like the Mac still. But wringing the pockets of users ?  How long can that be sustained in a bad economy ? Boutique brand for elitists. Or affordable tools for everyone. What will it be Steve ?

Perhaps some control is needed to make everything work correctly. But it is looking like Apple profit is the motive rather than quality for the user when every aspect of the market has to be micromanaged.And how long will the new stuff be good for. I'm still saving for the G5 I could not afford 5 years ago. And those with G5s are crying because their machines are sitting on shelves next to 7200s albeit with much more hopeful price tags.

Can the low end consumer ( who needs a reliable machine that is not maddening more than anyone ) ever get a break from Apple ? 'That $ 500 mid tower anywhere near release date ?I think it's time to ditch the G machines and support Steve by buying iPads. It's the closest thing many here will ever get or afford  of the current Apple experience. 

I sm going to hurry to do this because in six months the new OS for that will come out. And a year from then the version after that won't run on the my year old iPad.That planned obsolescence idea is really ramping up faster these days. It must be good for business.G'day AdrianUnfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned.It's basically bought about by the inquiring minds of talented people that love to invent new things; in our case, it's advances in processors, memory, communication (in it's many varied forms), programming, storage, and perhaps information control (if we let it). With these advances, the older hardware just can't cut the mustard, and the gaps seem to be constantly shrinking.My heart bleeds for those of us who can't, for one reason or another, keep up with the immediate advances, but I constantly remind myself that I'm glad the world of computers did not freeze up with the advent of my old Apple IIe. I'm lucky enough that I own an intel 24" iMac, but I'm ashamed to say I lustfully look at the new i7 27" iMacs, mainly cause some graphics I'm trying to write for an iPad app are too slow rendering on my core 2 duo. I'm lucky; I earn a small amount programming for Macs, that as a retiree keeps my family in iMacs. If I had to justify my requirements to my other halfs requirements only, I'd still 

Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Bruce Johnson]

By default, the hard drive has been hidden on Every version of OS X.

By d

-- 
Bruce 


On Oct 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Chance Reecher  wrote:

>> 2) The demo didn't show a hard drive on the desktop, but we'd still have
>> access to it right?
> 
> By default the hard drive is hidden from the Desktop in Snow, so I'd assume 
> yes.
>> 

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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Jeff Bequette]

the bottom line Air has only the flash drive and skinny to recommend  
it.  As my high school daughter told her friend in the apple store  
one, day, "It's a poser computer  for looking pretty in coffee shops- 
no dvd, get a macbook instead."  She was glared at by the genius in  
the area.  If I was going to spend a grand on a computer, I certainly  
would not buy one slower that my current G5!



On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:51 AM, Tom wrote:


Here's a link to a Seattle Times article on the Lion operating system:


I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives
instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will
eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then?

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Jeff Bequette






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Re: IS the world about to change ?

[Brian Christmas]

On 21/10/2010, at 10:58 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:

> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Brian Christmas  wrote:
> 
> On 21/10/2010, at 10:20 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
> 
>> 
>> This may help.
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting.
> 
> I feel like I'm in a different state tho, an calm analytical one, - I don't 
> like the situation, what can I do about it?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Santa
> 
> I thought you could afford the upgrade path, sorry I misunderstood.
> 
> I ask myself the same thing every day.
> And I ask " even if I buy a G5 or a low end Mac Pro how long can I use it for 
> NLE before  the OS can no longer get online for editing updates and other 
> software duties?
> How long will Apple not kill it ? 



G'day again Adrian

Thanks. To be honest, if I get paid for several software applications I've 
written pending approval, and sell my current machine on eBay, and throw in 
some extra, and get approval from my significant other, I might be able to get 
an i7 iMac. Big might. 

My current machine is only worth 30% of what I paid for it 18 months ago, so 
devaluation hits hard. But I really need a Power Mac for the Blender graphics 
I'm trying to write, which I simply can't justify, even to myself. Software 
advances to the limit of current processors, and my Core 2 duo is not cutting 
it. I have given myself a yearly budget to put towards a new computer, and try 
not to go over it, so might squeeze it in in a few months. Yearly internet 
access costs nearly as much. Computers are expensive hobbies. Contrast that tho 
with Windoze boxes that can hardly be given away after 2 years, unless the OS 
is completely restored. (I also know golfers, drinkers and smokers who spend 
more per annum on their hobbies than I do: self justification)

The reason I'm a member of the Low End group is that over the years I've 
scrounged older machines, tricked them out, and given them to neighbours and 
friends, and still maintain them. Gets Macs into hands that appreciate them. 
The oldest is a G3 tangarine iMac, running X.3., but the best is a beige G3 
desktop I used to own, fitted with 1GB RAM and a G4 daughter card at 1.6 GHz. 
running 10.4 really well. Still runs the latest version of iWork, and iMovie 6, 
and surfs the net with aplomb. Neighbours kids love it.

How long have they got? How long's a piece of string? Certainly the webs moving 
to H264 as witness Apples videos (and Flash might survive) which use more 
processor power then older machines have, so the web experience will be 
diminished, but by the time that becomes heavily prevalent, I would hope an 
intel iMac might be had cheaply. Sorry, but the long term outlook for the net 
and existing older Macs doesn't look good. If Australias National Broadband 
Network (fibre to the node) gets off the ground, then the biggest speed 
bottleneck for the end user will be older computers.

The main situation I don't like, and am taking a calm approach to, is Apples 
continued moves towards a closed system. What can I, as one person, do about 
it? Dunno. Perhaps hope for a groundswell, tho hope is a bit irrational. 
Perhaps I'll fire a calm email off to his Steveness in the hope he'll take 
note, especially if a few others are expressing the same feelings. Is this the 
anger stage of grief? I don't think so, as I don't feel anger; perhaps 
disappointment in that such a shining star as Apple seem to be moving in this 
direction.

Regards

Santa


And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all?
And it is this..
Existence that multiplied itself
For sheer delight of being
And plunged with numberless trillions of forms
So that it might
find
itself
innumerably

Sri Aurobindo






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