Re: Processor upgrade question, follow-up: LARGEST

[Bruce Johnson]

On Aug 14, 2017, at 10:06 AM, Milton King 
> wrote:

Thank You.  I probably asked the wrong question an I was thinking largest 
single processor on a 100 bus.  This old G4 will not do much past email and a 
few web sites.  As you know, all of the browsers are not supported.  My last 
hopeful was Roccat  and not I cannot get it to run on Tiger.  At Any rate,  I 
see some reasonably priced 500 to 733 single core mhz units on some websites.  
Thank you for your informative response.

There’s a version of Firefox kept up-to-date for 10.4 here: 
http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/


--
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University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Processor upgrade question

[Mac User #330250]

On 2017-08-14 19:06, Milton King wrote:

Thank You.  I probably asked the wrong question an I was thinking largest 
single processor on a 100 bus.  This old G4 will not do much past email and a 
few web sites.  As you know, all of the browsers are not supported.  My last 
hopeful was Roccat  and not I cannot get it to run on Tiger.  At Any rate,  I 
see some reasonably priced 500 to 733 single core mhz units on some websites.  
Thank you for your informative response.

Milt King



You're welcome.Since it's about size (dimensions): yes, you can use any 
single CPU card, provided it is the original small sized one (from 
Apple, original processor). It is preferrable that the heat sink of the 
original CPU will also fit the replacement processor daughter card.If 
you WOULD replace a 7400or 7410 with a 7450, there WOULD BE a slim 
chance that the original heat sink may not be enough, since the newer 
7450-based G4 CPU generally produce more heat. BUT there are two issues 
here, that PREVENT this possibility from actually happening. ONE, the 
heat sink for this replacement CPU from the other PowerMac model will 
not fit on your older PowerMac anyway, so you WOULD BE left with only 
the chance to use the original one.TWO, and that is the real problem: 
ALL 7450-based G4 dautgher cards from Apple have larger dimensions, 
preventing any use of them in older Macs as the Digital Audio, 
Quicksilver, Quicksilver 2002. The other way around is also true: the 
larger Dual processor daugher cards of the earlier Gigabit Ethernet, 
that will fit in all early models including the AGP Graphics, will not 
fit in the later models that came with a redesigned motherboard for the 
7450 processors.


IN ANY CASE, if you use a CPU from a later model with a different bus 
speed, you need to adjust the multiplier on the CPU daughter card. E.g. 
if you use a 533 MHz CPU from a "Digital Audio" with a 133 MHz bus in a 
"AGP Graphics" with a 100 MHz bus, you only get 400 Mhz. That is due to 
the multiplier set to 4:

100 MHz x 4 = 400 MHz
133 MHz x 4 = 533 MHz (skipping the number behind the comma, e.g. 
exactly it would be 133.3 x 4 or so...)


So, using a later CPU in an earlier Mac is possible, but 1) it has to 
fit and 2) the bus multiplier has to be modified for it to work.
I myself did this once: I got a 533 MHz G4 7410 from a "Digital Audio" 
quite cheap on eBay for using it in my original Cube. The Cube had a 450 
MHz 7400. To get the 7410 running at 500 MHz, all I had to do was to 
remove one resistor from the CPU daughter card. That was easy, but it 
may well be the other way around: you might have to add a resistor (or a 
connection, like a wire) to get the correct multiplier. (It was my 
intention to run the Cube with passive cooling, so downclocking the 533 
to 500 MHz was intentional. Otherwise, 550 MHz would have been a good 
option too.)


Concerning the bus multiplier modification, this should be a good 
starting point for you:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/158931-mac-overclocking-database/

Find the correct PLL resisitors. Modify them to your system clock speed. 
You may decide to overclock the CPU a little, there is normally no harm 
in that -- except for heat reasons.


If you are more adventurous, you can also overclock the system bus from 
100 MHz to 133 MHz, but this requires more than one tweak and may be 
unstable since the motherboard hasn't been tested for this higher speed. 
Instabilities (such as freezes and crashes) may occur.

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G4ZONE/sawtooth/SawtoothCPUdesign.html

Even if this all sounds very promising, THERE HAS TO BE A WARNING: There 
is absolutely no guarantee that a 7450 series CPU works without any 
modifications to the motherboard/firmware in a Mac designed for a 
7400/7410! BUT normally they should: most third-party CPU upgrade cards 
used a 7447/7448 or 7455/7457 CPU and worked without modification, so 
why not an original Apple CPU?



So, again: All CPUs up to the single Digital Audio 533 will have the 
correct dimension for any Power Mac G4. This is the original small 
daughter card and fits in any Power Mac G4 (except the heatsink will be 
different in later models!).


The Digital Audio 733 as well as the Quicksilver (original 2001 and 
2002) use wider daughter cards, even when single-CPU. They WILL NOT fit 
in any other Power Mac except the Digital Audio and the Quicksilver 
series. The connection PINs are the same, but the dimensions don't fit 
on the motherboard. The same is true for the MDD series: only MDD 
processors (and Xserve G4) will fit into those machines!


So, actually, when going for an original single CPU from Apple, the 533 
is your only option.


A Dual-500 will fit: it is a wider daughter board, but this one will 
only fit into the original AGP Graphics up to and including the Gigabit 
Ethernet. In a Digital Audio it will not fit, as the daughter board is 
to wide on the wrong side. Like the Dual AND single CPU cards of the 
Digital 

Re: Processor upgrade question, follow-up: LARGEST

[Mac User #330250]

On 2017-08-14 18:25, Mac User #330250 wrote:

On 2017-08-14 16:51, Milt King wrote:

I have a 350 mhz Mac G4.  What is the
largest processor that I can place on this

^^

motherboard.  This is just a project that I am interested in.


Oh... "largest"...

Answering for an "AGP Graphics" Power Mac G4, I think the largest in 
dimensions are the Dual CPUs from a "Gigabit Ethernet". Starting with 
the "Digital Audio", the processor daughter card was moved on the the 
motherboard to a different location and older Dual CPU daughter cards 
don't fit anymore.


Upgrade cards are build on the smaller Single-CPU dimensioned daughter 
board, so mostly they will work on any G4 Power Mac up to the 
"Quicksilver". Some even work on MDDs ("Mirrored Drive Doors").


Sorry, I got this wrong the first time. I though "fastest"...

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Re: Processor upgrade question

[Mac User #330250]

On 2017-08-14 16:51, Milt King wrote:

I have a 350 mhz Mac G4.  What is the largest processor that I can place on this
motherboard.  This is just a project that I am interested in.

Milt King


Oh may, this is going to be expensive!

From the top of my head, the answer is: A Dual-1.8 GHz G4, but it 
depends if your motherboard has a Uni-North ASIC revision of 7 or above. 
Some older original "AGP Graphics" i.e. PowerMac3,1 had a lower revision.


If it's the predecessor "PCI Graphics" i.e. PowerMac1,2: don't bother... 
You would need a ZIF socket upgrade, and those are the rarest among the 
rare. Also I've heard that this specific motherboard design had issues 
with higher speeds, so you wouldn't want to go that route anyway. But 
maybe I'm mixing this up with the first versions of the motherboard, 
when it still used a G3 processor (with the same ZIF socket)...


Those would be your options (PCI Graphics only!): 
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/by_system/powermac_g4.html



Anyway, from "AGP Graphics" i.e. PowerMac3,1 onward, first check the 
Uni-North revision, as described here: 
http://www.newertech.com/tech_support/uni-north.php


If the Uni-North revision is lower than 7, you can always use a 
single-CPU upgrade. I believe there was a Single-2.0 GHz G4 CPU upgrade 
also (overclocked 1.8 GHz CPU), but they are very very very rare. And 
expensive too!


Also keep in mind that a fast CPU will not compensate for the general 
motherboard design. The bus speed of the G4 Power Macs was at a very 
slow 100 to 167 MHz. That is okay if the processor speed is equally low, 
like at 350 MHz. But the faster the CPU, the more you'll realize that 
the CPU will just sit there, wait for data to process but since the bus 
isn't able to shift the data to the processor quickly, the fast CPU will 
mostly be waiting on the bus.


BTW, I just did the research: a 350 MHz G4 is either a "PCI Graphics" 
PowerMac1,2 (ZIF socket!) or a "AGP Graphics" PowerMac3,1, both from 
1999 (produced and sold till 2000). All later models, like the "Gigabit 
Ethernet" PowerMac3,3 from 2000, had higher CPU speeds.


So it's either this: 
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_350.html
Or this: 
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_350_agp.html


Anyway, for an AGP based PowerMac, those are your options:
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/by_system/powermac_g4_st.html

In general, this is what everymac.com has to say about G4 CPU upgrades:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/faq/power-mac-g4-how-to-upgrade-processor-zif-agp-mdd.html

Good luck!

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Processor upgrade question

[Milt King]

I have a 350 mhz Mac G4.  What is the largest processor that I can place on 
this motherboard.  This is just a project that I am interested in.

Milt King

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Re: Upgrade question

[JOHN CARMONNE]

On Dec 6, 2011, at 6:48 AM, Martin N wrote:


Lo,

At 14:17 02/12/2011, you wrote:


On Dec 1, 2011, at 8:49 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote:



 Regarding the pumps, I think the Delphi was single pump, while  
the Panasonic
 dual pump (and this regardless of G5 model; I mean, AFAIK there  
was no

 direct correlation between G5 model and brand of LCS).
 But John Carmonne knows much more about this than me.

I hope This will clear up the LCS models. The one with the copper  
tubing is the Panasonic. This was a fast fix for the many leakers  
that Apple had early on and AFAIK some of the very last Dual 2.7's  
had them stock. The other two are Delphi's notice the one with two  
pumps it's used in the Quad Core only. The single pump model is  
also a Delphi it was used up to and including the early 2005's as  
far as I know. The Delphi's can be successfully rebuilt I've done  
it and never had another leak, But nothings perfect. The problem is  
the heat sink cover plates and those lame O rings you need to be  
extra clean and use Form-A-Gasket with new O rings.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36728487/LCS%20Mac.zip



Thanks for the effort uploading those pictures. :)

P4170004=Delphi since i cannot see any copper?
P4170001=Delphi since it is labelled as such


Yes those are Delphi's

new heat sink 3= it has a fair amount of copper - is it a Panasonic?
new heat sink= Panasonic with copper and a label.


Those are pics of the same Panasonic LCS.
I have not had a look inside a G5 so its difficult to make head or  
tail of water

cooling.

Very easy, just open the hood (side cover) and slide the G5 cover  
toward the front of the machine and take a look at the LSC you can't  
miss it.




Martin N

Running MorphOS v2.6 (Nov 2010) on Mac Mini, Moderator of  
MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups


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Re: Upgrade question

[Martin N]

Lo,

At 14:17 02/12/2011, you wrote:


On Dec 1, 2011, at 8:49 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote:



 Regarding the pumps, I think the Delphi was single pump, while 
the Panasonic

 dual pump (and this regardless of G5 model; I mean, AFAIK there was no
 direct correlation between G5 model and brand of LCS).
 But John Carmonne knows much more about this than me.

 I hope This will clear up the LCS models. The one with the copper 
tubing is the Panasonic. This was a fast fix for the many leakers 
that Apple had early on and AFAIK some of the very last Dual 2.7's 
had them stock. The other two are Delphi's notice the one with two 
pumps it's used in the Quad Core only. The single pump model is 
also a Delphi it was used up to and including the early 2005's as 
far as I know. The Delphi's can be successfully rebuilt I've done 
it and never had another leak, But nothings perfect. The problem is 
the heat sink cover plates and those lame O rings you need to be 
extra clean and use Form-A-Gasket with new O rings.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36728487/LCS%20Mac.zip



Thanks for the effort uploading those pictures. :)

P4170004=Delphi since i cannot see any copper?
P4170001=Delphi since it is labelled as such
new heat sink 3= it has a fair amount of copper - is it a Panasonic?
new heat sink= Panasonic with copper and a label.

I have not had a look inside a G5 so its difficult to make head or 
tail of water

cooling.

Martin N

Running MorphOS v2.6 (Nov 2010) on Mac Mini, Moderator of 
MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups



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Re: Upgrade question

[David W. Morris]

Martin N

Running MorphOS v2.6 (Nov 2010) on Mac Mini, Moderator of  
MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups



@Martin N,

Are you thinking of getting a G5 PowerMac because of the possibility  
that it will be able to run MorphOS in the future?  I know that was  
one of the main reasons for me when looking to purchase my Dual 2.7GHz  
G5 PowerMac, but I also wanted it to run Final Cut Pro Studio to do  
some video editing.  It sits next to my old Amiga A4000 Power Tower w/ 
CyberStorm 233Mhz PPC  NewTek Video Toaster/Flyer system inside and  
my A2000 w/GVP TekMagic 68060 accelerator and V-Lab Motion video  
editing system.  Amiga's were the first great Video Editing  
computers.  Too bad the management at Commodore didn't know how to  
market them and ran the company into the ground.


It is likely to be a long wait before MorphOS3.x that contains support  
for the G5 PowerMacs.  I am guessing at least 6 to 12 months and maybe  
as long as 18 to 24 months.  If you wait until it is released, the  
prices of G5 PowerMac's will have continued to drop and you might be  
able to find one for only $150 to $250.  They should make for great  
systems to run MorphOS on, as MorphOS2.7 already flies on my 1.42GHz  
G4 PowerMac and 1.5GHz MacMini.  All we need now is more native  
MorphOS software, so I am teaching myself to program and will begin  
writing programs just for MorphOS in the near future.


I also notice from your signature that you are running MorphOS2.6 on  
your MacMini.  Why haven't you installed the free upgrade to 2.7?  It  
is really great that all the upgrades from 2.0 to 2.7 and soon to 3.0  
have been free to registered users.  I have read that they are going  
to lower the price for MorphOS registration for all models except the  
G4 PowerBooks, but don't know when, or by how much.


Regards,
AmigaDave

Running MorphOS2.7 registered on my 1.42GHz G4 MDD PowerMac, 1.5GHz G4  
MacMini,  Efika 5200b, plus MorphOS3.0 beta on both my 15  17  
1.67GHz G4 PowerBooks, with a Dual 2.7GHz G5 PowerMac running MacOSX  
10.5.8  Ubuntu PPC 10.10 waiting for support on MorphOS3.x.


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Re: Upgrade question

[John Carmonne]

On Dec 2, 2011, at 12:50 PM, Martin N wrote:

 Lo,
 
 At 04:49 02/12/2011, you wrote:
 Il giorno 1-12-2011 23:19, Martin N ha scritto:
 
  Thanks for the archive information, it looks like i will have to ask
  a seller on ebay
  to take a photo of the inside to determine if it is the more reliable
  Panasonic.
 He will have to do some disassembly, I think, to get to the cooling unit.
 On my G5, it wasn't obvious just opening it.
 
 All you need to do is slip off the G5 processor cover and if you see copper 
tubing it's a Panasonic.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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Re: Upgrade question

[David W. Morris]

All you need to do is slip off the G5 processor cover and if you see  
copper tubing it's a Panasonic.




If I remember correctly, the copper tubing on the Panasonic Liquid  
Cooling Systems is painted, or anodized a silver color, so don't get  
confused that it isn't copper colored.  The other LCS units use rubber  
hoses, not metal tubing, so it is easy to tell them apart.


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Re: Upgrade question

[John Carmonne]

On Dec 3, 2011, at 10:29 AM, David W. Morris wrote:

 
 All you need to do is slip off the G5 processor cover and if you see copper 
 tubing it's a Panasonic.
 
 
 If I remember correctly, the copper tubing on the Panasonic Liquid Cooling 
 Systems is painted, or anodized a silver color, so don't get confused that it 
 isn't copper colored.  The other LCS units use rubber hoses, not metal 
 tubing, so it is easy to tell them apart.

Here is the one in my G5 Dual 2.7.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36728487/LCS%20Mac.zip


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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Re: Upgrade question

[John Carmonne]

On Dec 1, 2011, at 8:49 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote:

 
 
 Regarding the pumps, I think the Delphi was single pump, while the Panasonic
 dual pump (and this regardless of G5 model; I mean, AFAIK there was no
 direct correlation between G5 model and brand of LCS).
 But John Carmonne knows much more about this than me.
 
 I hope This will clear up the LCS models. The one with the copper tubing is 
the Panasonic. This was a fast fix for the many leakers that Apple had early on 
and AFAIK some of the very last Dual 2.7's had them stock. The other two are 
Delphi's notice the one with two pumps it's used in the Quad Core only. The 
single pump model is also a Delphi it was used up to and including the early 
2005's as far as I know. The Delphi's can be successfully rebuilt I've done it 
and never had another leak, But nothings perfect. The problem is the heat sink 
cover plates and those lame O rings you need to be extra clean and use 
Form-A-Gasket with new O rings.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36728487/LCS%20Mac.zip


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA
MacPro 2.66
Quad Nehalem



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Re: Upgrade question

[Martin N]

Lo,

At 04:49 02/12/2011, you wrote:

Il giorno 1-12-2011 23:19, Martin N ha scritto:

 Thanks for the archive information, it looks like i will have to ask
 a seller on ebay
 to take a photo of the inside to determine if it is the more reliable
 Panasonic.
He will have to do some disassembly, I think, to get to the cooling unit.
On my G5, it wasn't obvious just opening it.


OK it looks like the description is what i will have to rely on.



 Unless i pay the extra for a mac dealer refurb but they are a lot
 more expensive
If you're afraid about the LCS, you could go for an air cooled G5.
(you can use MacTracker to know which is which)


Yeah fair enough.
Never had a liquid cooled computer of any sort which makes be
apprehensive.


 The Panasonic unit has never leaked in my experience. Hard to find
 but worth it. The Quads have a Dual pump Delphi that's a lot better
 than the solo's... They are great machines IMHO.

 Are the quads Delphis cheaper than the dual Panasonic?
I think the OP meant Quad core G5... :-)
(it was the last G5 model, the Late 2005, with dual core processors: the top
model had two dual core 2.5 GHz processors, hence the quad core)


Yeah i know, I should be more accurate in my wording :)

thanks
Martin N

Running MorphOS v2.6 (Nov 2010) on Mac Mini, Moderator of 
MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups



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Re: Upgrade question

[JohnCarmonne]

On Nov 30, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Martin N wrote:

 Lo,
 
 At 02:15 30/11/2011, you wrote:
 
 In a message dated 11/29/11 7:21:07 PM, marti...@bluebottle.com writes:
 
 Do you know how reliable the water cooled g5s are?
 I seem to remember it being mentioned that the cooling system was not
 very well built.
 
 Probably be looking at a G5 in a years time so always good to prepare.
 
 Martin N
 
 This was recently addressed here by someone who has rebuilt leaky cooling 
 units. IIRC there were two venders (Adelphi for early units  Panasonic for 
 later models) and it was the early units that had leak issues. It was also 
 stated that no matter what they should be inspected periodically. Check the 
 list archives or google. Plenty or info.
 


The Panasonic unit has never leaked in my experience. Hard to find but worth 
it. The Quads have a Dual pump Delphi that's a lot better than the solo's. They 
are great machines IMHO.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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Re: Upgrade question

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 30-11-2011 0:57, Martin N ha scritto:

 Do you know how reliable the water cooled g5s are?
 I seem to remember it being mentioned that the cooling system was not
 very well built.

As stated before, looking on Google or this List archives will get you
plenty of info.

I got a G5 2.7 DP recently. It seems having the Delphi Liquid Cooling System
(LCS), but no leak so far. Very silent, quite fast, I think it's a very good
machine, but you have to be lucky about the LCS.
Or, get yourself an air cooled one.

Below is part of the msgs I got when talking about this:

 Apple had two different LCS's in the G5 PM 2.7 the Delphi (single pump) it was
 pretty sure to leak and need to be rebuilt the other LCS was made by Panasonic
 (two pumps) that AFAIK never has leaked yet. I replaced my Delphi after two
 rebuilds and one Power supply with the later model Panasonic,  it's a much
 better built unit and easy to service if needed.
 
 
 is there any easy way to tell which LCS I have on my G5?
 
 The easy way is to look at it with the G5 cover off and if it has
 copper tubes it's a Panasonic.
 The top of the processor has the name.
 Plus not all the Delphi's will leak but it's a real problem with these
 machines. If you need one rebuilt you can do it your self
 or Brian at  DTT will do it cheap.
 http://www.dttservice.com/

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Re: Upgrade question

[Martin N]

Lo,

At 00:09 01/12/2011, you wrote:

Il giorno 30-11-2011 0:57, Martin N ha scritto:



snip


Below is part of the msgs I got when talking about this:

 Apple had two different LCS's in the G5 PM 2.7 the Delphi (single 
pump) it was
 pretty sure to leak and need to be rebuilt the other LCS was made 
by Panasonic

 (two pumps) that AFAIK never has leaked yet. I replaced my Delphi after two
 rebuilds and one Power supply with the later model Panasonic,  it's a much
 better built unit and easy to service if needed.


 is there any easy way to tell which LCS I have on my G5?

 The easy way is to look at it with the G5 cover off and if it has
 copper tubes it's a Panasonic.
 The top of the processor has the name.
 Plus not all the Delphi's will leak but it's a real problem with these
 machines. If you need one rebuilt you can do it your self
 or Brian at  DTT will do it cheap.
 http://www.dttservice.com/



Thanks for the archive information, it looks like i will have to ask 
a seller on ebay
to take a photo of the inside to determine if it is the more reliable 
Panasonic.


Unless i pay the extra for a mac dealer refurb but they are a lot 
more expensive

than those on ebay when i was looking for my g4 mac mini.
This is in the UK so YMMV.

Martin N

Running MorphOS v2.6 (Nov 2010) on Mac Mini, Moderator of 
MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups



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Re: Upgrade question

[Martin N]

Lo,

At 20:58 30/11/2011, you wrote:


On Nov 30, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Martin N wrote:

 Lo,

 At 02:15 30/11/2011, you wrote:


snip

 This was recently addressed here by someone who has rebuilt 
leaky cooling units. IIRC there were two venders (Adelphi for early 
units  Panasonic for later models) and it was the early units that 
had leak issues. It was also stated that no matter what they should 
be inspected periodically. Check the list archives or google. Plenty or info.




The Panasonic unit has never leaked in my experience. Hard to find 
but worth it. The Quads have a Dual pump Delphi that's a lot better 
than the solo's... They are great machines IMHO.



Are the quads Delphis cheaper than the dual Panasonic?

Could be, if there is high demand for the Panasonic with the known
cooling issues.

Martin N

Running MorphOS v2.6 (Nov 2010) on Mac Mini, Moderator of 
MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups



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Re: Upgrade question

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 1-12-2011 23:19, Martin N ha scritto:

 Thanks for the archive information, it looks like i will have to ask
 a seller on ebay
 to take a photo of the inside to determine if it is the more reliable
 Panasonic.
He will have to do some disassembly, I think, to get to the cooling unit.
On my G5, it wasn't obvious just opening it.

 Unless i pay the extra for a mac dealer refurb but they are a lot
 more expensive
If you're afraid about the LCS, you could go for an air cooled G5.
(you can use MacTracker to know which is which)

 The Panasonic unit has never leaked in my experience. Hard to find
 but worth it. The Quads have a Dual pump Delphi that's a lot better
 than the solo's... They are great machines IMHO.
 
 Are the quads Delphis cheaper than the dual Panasonic?
I think the OP meant Quad core G5... :-)
(it was the last G5 model, the Late 2005, with dual core processors: the top
model had two dual core 2.5 GHz processors, hence the quad core)

Regarding the pumps, I think the Delphi was single pump, while the Panasonic
dual pump (and this regardless of G5 model; I mean, AFAIK there was no
direct correlation between G5 model and brand of LCS).
But John Carmonne knows much more about this than me.


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Re: Upgrade question

[Martin N]

Lo,

At 02:15 30/11/2011, you wrote:


In a message dated 11/29/11 7:21:07 PM, marti...@bluebottle.com writes:



snip


Skyler,
My opinion is that you go to a G5. I have a gig-e DP450  a DA with
Sonnet 1.4 GHZ upgrade. Both cost me about $200 (the DA came Dec
2010). XBench scores for the DA is in the range of 50-55.

I just got a late 2005 G5 dual core 2.3 for $208 delivered with 4GB
ram  a 6600 video card. Ebay had them for $160-300 last week
including some water cooled quad cores.


Do you know how reliable the water cooled g5s are?
I seem to remember it being mentioned that the cooling system was not
very well built.

Probably be looking at a G5 in a years time so always good to prepare.

Martin N


This was recently addressed here by someone who has rebuilt leaky 
cooling units. IIRC there were two venders (Adelphi for early units 
 Panasonic for later models) and it was the early units that had 
leak issues. It was also stated that no matter what they should be 
inspected periodically. Check the list archives or google. Plenty or info.



Ok thanks for the information.

Martin N

Running MorphOS v2.6 (Nov 2010) on Mac Mini, Moderator of 
MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups



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Re: Upgrade question

[Martin N]

Lo,

At 21:53 28/11/2011, you wrote:


In a message dated 11/28/11 5:52:36 AM, skyler.r...@gmail.com writes:


OK. Sorry I didn't mention that it's a 933 MHz chip. The chip is 
sold as an  *Apple MPU 1.25 GHz Dual Processor.  What I really 
need to know is if it will work with my 2002 Quicksilver. Sorry for 
the confusion.


On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 11:33 PM, JohnCarmonne 
mailto:carmo...@aol.comcarmo...@aol.com wrote:



On Nov 27, 2011, at 8:19 PM, Fabian Fang wrote:

 On Nov 27, 2011, at 7:14 PM, Skyler Rudd wrote:

 I have a 2002 Quicksilver that I would like to upgrade so I can 
use Photoshop CS4. I have found an Apple MPU 1.25 GHz Dual 
Processor, but I can't seem to find out if it will do the job. Any 
help would be greatly appreciated.



 A simple search would have led you to Photoshop CS4 System 
Requirements, which include PowerPC G5 or Multicore Intel Processor:
 
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/407/kb407716.html#main__Toc162848025http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/407/kb407716.html#main__Toc162848025



If this will help I installed CS4 on a 1GB TiBook today but it's 
going to run at CS3 speeds CS4's features run better on G5's.


Skyler,
My opinion is that you go to a G5. I have a gig-e DP450  a DA with 
Sonnet 1.4 GHZ upgrade. Both cost me about $200 (the DA came Dec 
2010). XBench scores for the DA is in the range of 50-55.


I just got a late 2005 G5 dual core 2.3 for $208 delivered with 4GB 
ram  a 6600 video card. Ebay had them for $160-300 last week 
including some water cooled quad cores.



Do you know how reliable the water cooled g5s are?
I seem to remember it being mentioned that the cooling system was not 
very well built.


Probably be looking at a G5 in a years time so always good to prepare.

Martin N

Running MorphOS v2.6 (Nov 2010) on Mac Mini, Moderator of 
MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups



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Re: Upgrade question

[RTOWSLEY]

In a message dated 11/29/11 7:21:07 PM, marti...@bluebottle.com writes:


 snip
 
 
 Skyler,
 My opinion is that you go to a G5. I have a gig-e DP450  a DA with
 Sonnet 1.4 GHZ upgrade. Both cost me about $200 (the DA came Dec
 2010). XBench scores for the DA is in the range of 50-55.
 
 I just got a late 2005 G5 dual core 2.3 for $208 delivered with 4GB
 ram  a 6600 video card. Ebay had them for $160-300 last week
 including some water cooled quad cores.
 
 
 Do you know how reliable the water cooled g5s are?
 I seem to remember it being mentioned that the cooling system was not
 very well built.
 
 Probably be looking at a G5 in a years time so always good to prepare.
 
 Martin N
 
This was recently addressed here by someone who has rebuilt leaky cooling 
units. IIRC there were two venders (Adelphi for early units  Panasonic for 
later models) and it was the early units that had leak issues. It was also 
stated that no matter what they should be inspected periodically. Check the 
list archives or google. Plenty or info.

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Re: Upgrade question

[Skyler Rudd]

OK. Sorry I didn't mention that it's a 933 MHz chip. The chip is sold as
an  *Apple MPU 1.25 GHz Dual Processor.  What I really need to know is if
it will work with my 2002 Quicksilver. Sorry for the confusion.

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 11:33 PM, JohnCarmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote:


 On Nov 27, 2011, at 8:19 PM, Fabian Fang wrote:

  On Nov 27, 2011, at 7:14 PM, Skyler Rudd wrote:
 
  I have a 2002 Quicksilver that I would like to upgrade so I can use
 Photoshop CS4. I have found an Apple MPU 1.25 GHz Dual Processor, but I
 can't seem to find out if it will do the job. Any help would be greatly
 appreciated.
 
 
  A simple search would have led you to Photoshop CS4 System Requirements,
 which include PowerPC G5 or Multicore Intel Processor:
  http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/407/kb407716.html#main__Toc162848025


 If this will help I installed CS4 on a 1GB TiBook today but it's going to
 run at CS3 speeds CS4's features run better on G5's.


 John Carmonne
 Yorba Linda CA
 92886 USA
 MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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-- 
Later,
Skyler

Ah but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now
Bob Dylan


*With a Les Paul you just wind up sounding like someone else; with the
Strat I finally sound like me. -Jeff Beck*

I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians.  They are so unlike
your Christ.
Ghandi

Censorship, like charity, should begin at home.  But unlike charity, it
should remain there.

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Re: Upgrade question

[David W. Morris]

The Apple 1.25GHz Dual G4 Processor will only work in the Mirror Drive  
Door PowerMac models, not your Quicksilver.


You should look for a Sonnet 1.8GHz upgrade, or there was a company  
that made a 2.0GHz upgrade for the Quicksilver, but they are extremely  
hard to find.



On Nov 27, 2011, at 7:14 PM, Skyler Rudd wrote:

I have a 2002 Quicksilver that I would like to upgrade so I can use  
Photoshop CS4. I have found an Apple MPU 1.25 GHz Dual Processor,  
but I can't seem to find out if it will do the job. Any help would  
be greatly appreciated.


--
Later,
Skyler


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Re: Upgrade question

[RTOWSLEY]

In a message dated 11/28/11 5:52:36 AM, skyler.r...@gmail.com writes:


 OK. Sorry I didn't mention that it's a 933 MHz chip. The chip is sold as 
 an  *Apple MPU 1.25 GHz Dual Processor.  What I really need to know is if 
 it will work with my 2002 Quicksilver. Sorry for the confusion.
 
 On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 11:33 PM, JohnCarmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote:
 
 
 On Nov 27, 2011, at 8:19 PM, Fabian Fang wrote:
 
  On Nov 27, 2011, at 7:14 PM, Skyler Rudd wrote:
 
  I have a 2002 Quicksilver that I would like to upgrade so I can use 
 Photoshop CS4. I have found an Apple MPU 1.25 GHz Dual Processor, but I can't 
 seem to find out if it will do the job. Any help would be greatly 
 appreciated.
 
 
  A simple search would have led you to Photoshop CS4 System Requirements, 
 which include PowerPC G5 or Multicore Intel Processor:
  http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/407/kb407716.html#main__Toc162848025
 
 
 If this will help I installed CS4 on a 1GB TiBook today but it's going to 
 run at CS3 speeds CS4's features run better on G5's.
 
 
Skyler,
My opinion is that you go to a G5. I have a gig-e DP450  a DA with Sonnet 
1.4 GHZ upgrade. Both cost me about $200 (the DA came Dec 2010). XBench 
scores for the DA is in the range of 50-55.

 I just got a late 2005 G5 dual core 2.3 for $208 delivered with 4GB ram  
a 6600 video card. Ebay had them for $160-300 last week including some water 
cooled quad cores. My 2.3 XBenched at 101 out of the box.
When you compare the G5 to the G4, even to the DP MDD, there is a huge 
difference for the money  I'm saying that as a G4 lover  holdout.
BobT

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Upgrade question

[Skyler Rudd]

I have a 2002 Quicksilver that I would like to upgrade so I can use
Photoshop CS4. I have found an *Apple MPU 1.25 GHz Dual Processor, but I
can't seem to find out if it will do the job. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.*

-- 
Later,
Skyler

Ah but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now
Bob Dylan


*With a Les Paul you just wind up sounding like someone else; with the
Strat I finally sound like me. -Jeff Beck*

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Re: Upgrade question

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 28-11-2011 4:14, Skyler Rudd ha scritto:

 I have a 2002 Quicksilver that I would like to upgrade so I can use
 Photoshop CS4. I have found an *Apple MPU 1.25 GHz Dual Processor, but I
 can't seem to find out if it will do the job.

Aside from Fabian Fang answer... you didn't mention your actual QS CPU.

If that 1.25 CPU is an original from Apple, it must come from a G4 MDD, thus
I doubt it will go straight into a QS (I might be wrong, thou).
If it would be a third-party CPU upgrade, then it might.

Adobe CS3 is compatible with G4 but, from my personal experience, even with
a 1.25 GHz DP G4, it would be slow.
I had a G4 Digital Audio (almost same architecture than your QS) upgraded
with a 1.4 GHz CPU: InDesign CS3 was pretty slow (but usable), Photoshop was
better, but working with them wasn't the best.
Now, with a G5 2.7 DP, it's much better: not blazing fast, but not crawling
anymore.

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Re: Upgrade question

[JohnCarmonne]

On Nov 27, 2011, at 8:19 PM, Fabian Fang wrote:

 On Nov 27, 2011, at 7:14 PM, Skyler Rudd wrote:
 
 I have a 2002 Quicksilver that I would like to upgrade so I can use 
 Photoshop CS4. I have found an Apple MPU 1.25 GHz Dual Processor, but I 
 can't seem to find out if it will do the job. Any help would be greatly 
 appreciated.
 
 
 A simple search would have led you to Photoshop CS4 System Requirements, 
 which include PowerPC G5 or Multicore Intel Processor:
 http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/407/kb407716.html#main__Toc162848025


If this will help I installed CS4 on a 1GB TiBook today but it's going to run 
at CS3 speeds CS4's features run better on G5's.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[faithie999]

running 9.2.2 with the Sonnet upgrade:

there are two programs on the install CD that come with the processor
upgrade.  the instructions say to first update firmware, which you
don't need to do since you're already at 4.2.8.

then it says to run the program on the CD, under OS X,  for OS X
install.  a couple of pages later, it says to run the other program
under 9.2.  i didn't discover this part of the instructions until i
had changed the processor and tried to boot to 9.2, and the boot
sequence stalled.  then i RTFM and found the OS9 part.  i put the old
processor back in, booted 9.2, ran the OS 9 install program, then put
the new processor back in, and all is well.

what the OS 9 install program does is put two extensions in the
extensions folder:   Sonnet Processor Upgrade (with a space before the
S so it loads first) and an updated version of Apple CPU Plugins,
which is in the Multiprocessing folder within Extensions folder.

then just for fun, i wanted to boot from an OS 9.2.2 install disk.  of
course it didn't boot properly due to the lack of those extensions
(actually it's when i was trying to get it to boot that i realized
that the installer must have installed extensions for the booting to
work).  i readily found the Sonnet extension  but i needed to
contact Sonnet tech support (who repllied within an hour!) to learn
about the updated CPU plugin extension.  so, i burned a new 9.2.2
install disk with Toast 5.1 after adding the sonnet extension and
replacing the old CPU extension.  boots fine--except i'm not sure when
i'll ever need!

no, i don't have enough to do with my time!!

On Jan 26, 10:04 pm, Sean Carroll cedarwaxw...@att.net wrote:
 Thanks, Ken.

  i inherited a sawtooth a few weeks ago, and decided to keep it and
  upgrade it so i could run leopard and lightroom 2.

 Being able to run Leopard would be a bonus. Ironically, an important  
 asset of more CPU firepower for me would be the ability to run some  
 *older* software (old but more recent than 450 MHz as state-of-the-
 art). Digital recording software that requires a computer with some  
 expandability, in case anyone is wondering why I'd want an old  
 computer running old software when I'm planning to get a new Mac mini  
 before too long.

  i bought a 1.6 ghz processor upgrade (Sonnet) from OWC (the link is on
  one of the low end mac Powermac upgrade pages).  it took about 5
  minutes to install--run the firmware mod utility that came with the
  new processor, remove the old processor, drop in the new one, and off
  to the races.

 Good to hear that it's as easy as advertised. Sonnet seems to get  
 mixed reviews here with other stuff, but I haven't heard many bad  
 reviews of their CPU upgrades. Maybe one.

  (in order to run the firmware updater to prepare for
  the new processor, the mac firmware needs to be at 4.2.8.

 My firmware is at 4.2.8 . I have OS 9.2.2 on a partition, and I also  
 have the OS 9 install disc. Which reminds me - are you aware of any  
 OS 9 complications involved in installing the Sonnet CPU upgrade? I  
 know that a Newer Technology requires a bit of fuss and bother with  
 removing something from some plug-ins folder (CPU. CMU, something) in  
 OS 9 prior to the upgrade. It appears that you might not be running  
 OS 9 (or at least weren't before the upgrade), but I just wondered if  
 you noticed anything about it in the documentation or while running  
 the firmware mod utility.

 Sean

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Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[Sean Carroll]

running 9.2.2 with the Sonnet upgrade:


That all sounds quite similar to the extra steps for OS 9 that I read  
about for the Newer Technology CPU upgrade. Evidently, the CPU  
upgrade (not Newer Technology) I have ordered is as Plug-n-Play as  
they come. I hope so, as this is the only part of the whole Sawtooth  
upgrade that makes me a bit nervous.


Sean


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Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[Sean Carroll]

Thanks, Ken.


i inherited a sawtooth a few weeks ago, and decided to keep it and
upgrade it so i could run leopard and lightroom 2.


Being able to run Leopard would be a bonus. Ironically, an important  
asset of more CPU firepower for me would be the ability to run some  
*older* software (old but more recent than 450 MHz as state-of-the- 
art). Digital recording software that requires a computer with some  
expandability, in case anyone is wondering why I'd want an old  
computer running old software when I'm planning to get a new Mac mini  
before too long.



i bought a 1.6 ghz processor upgrade (Sonnet) from OWC (the link is on
one of the low end mac Powermac upgrade pages).  it took about 5
minutes to install--run the firmware mod utility that came with the
new processor, remove the old processor, drop in the new one, and off
to the races.


Good to hear that it's as easy as advertised. Sonnet seems to get  
mixed reviews here with other stuff, but I haven't heard many bad  
reviews of their CPU upgrades. Maybe one.



(in order to run the firmware updater to prepare for
the new processor, the mac firmware needs to be at 4.2.8.


My firmware is at 4.2.8 . I have OS 9.2.2 on a partition, and I also  
have the OS 9 install disc. Which reminds me - are you aware of any  
OS 9 complications involved in installing the Sonnet CPU upgrade? I  
know that a Newer Technology requires a bit of fuss and bother with  
removing something from some plug-ins folder (CPU. CMU, something) in  
OS 9 prior to the upgrade. It appears that you might not be running  
OS 9 (or at least weren't before the upgrade), but I just wondered if  
you noticed anything about it in the documentation or while running  
the firmware mod utility.


Sean

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Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[skinnie]

Don't you need the latest firmware to run OSX?
I though so...

On Jan 23, 6:15 pm, faithie999 faithie...@hotmail.com wrote:
.  (in order to run the firmware updater to prepare for
 the new processor, the mac firmware needs to be at 4.2.8.  if you need
 to upgrade the firmware, it's still available on apple's download
 site.  however, the updater app only runs in OS9.  took me a couple of
 days to locate OS9 install disk and get it booted, and then to get the
 firmware updated.)

 ken

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Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[faithie999]

i inherited a sawtooth a few weeks ago, and decided to keep it and
upgrade it so i could run leopard and lightroom 2.

i bought a 1.6 ghz processor upgrade (Sonnet) from OWC (the link is on
one of the low end mac Powermac upgrade pages).  it took about 5
minutes to install--run the firmware mod utility that came with the
new processor, remove the old processor, drop in the new one, and off
to the races.  (in order to run the firmware updater to prepare for
the new processor, the mac firmware needs to be at 4.2.8.  if you need
to upgrade the firmware, it's still available on apple's download
site.  however, the updater app only runs in OS9.  took me a couple of
days to locate OS9 install disk and get it booted, and then to get the
firmware updated.)

then i erased the HD and did a clean install of leopard.  it runs
great.  if you can spring for the processor i'd highly recommend it.

ken



On Jan 23, 9:00 am, dc dbc...@verizon.net wrote:
 On Jan 23, 3:57 am, Sean Carroll cedarwaxw...@att.net wrote:

  Current system: Power Mac G4 AGP 450 MHz, 1.25 GB RAM, 160 GB  40 GB
  hard drives (PATA), Gigabit Ethernet PCI Card, Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.11
  and Mac OS 9.2.2

  I've found a great deal of useful information about Power Mac G4 AGP
  CPU upgrades through Low End Mac and scouring the archives here.

 Personally I wouldn't think a processor upgrade, even a used one,
 would be worth it if you are getting a new Mac soon. Max out the RAM
 to 1.5 GB, that should only cost $20 or so. You can also run a
 freeware utility called Monolingual which will strip out the Intel and
 G5 architectures from your OS, along with the languages you don't
 need. It will save around a gig of disk space and let Tiger run much
 more efficiently.

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Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[bittin]

Monolingual is awesome
--
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Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[dc]

On Jan 23, 3:57 am, Sean Carroll cedarwaxw...@att.net wrote:
 Current system: Power Mac G4 AGP 450 MHz, 1.25 GB RAM, 160 GB  40 GB
 hard drives (PATA), Gigabit Ethernet PCI Card, Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.11
 and Mac OS 9.2.2

 I've found a great deal of useful information about Power Mac G4 AGP
 CPU upgrades through Low End Mac and scouring the archives here.

Personally I wouldn't think a processor upgrade, even a used one,
would be worth it if you are getting a new Mac soon. Max out the RAM
to 1.5 GB, that should only cost $20 or so. You can also run a
freeware utility called Monolingual which will strip out the Intel and
G5 architectures from your OS, along with the languages you don't
need. It will save around a gig of disk space and let Tiger run much
more efficiently.

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Fwd: Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[Jack Countryman]

On 1/23/11 9:00 AM, dc wrote:


 On Jan 23, 3:57 am, Sean Carrollcedarwaxw...@att.net   wrote:

 Current system: Power Mac G4 AGP 450 MHz, 1.25 GB RAM, 160 GB   40 GB
 hard drives (PATA), Gigabit Ethernet PCI Card, Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.11
 and Mac OS 9.2.2

 I've found a great deal of useful information about Power Mac G4 AGP
 CPU upgrades through Low End Mac and scouring the archives here.

 Personally I wouldn't think a processor upgrade, even a used one,
 would be worth it if you are getting a new Mac soon. Max out the RAM
 to 1.5 GB, that should only cost $20 or so. You can also run a
 freeware utility called Monolingual which will strip out the Intel and
 G5 architectures from your OS, along with the languages you don't
 need. It will save around a gig of disk space and let Tiger run much
 more efficiently.


Along with Monolingual, I always use 'Delocalizer' which strips out the
country specific stuff to save a bit more room.  Note that you often
need to do these again after you install new software, as they (by
default) install all languages/country specific files again.

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Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[Sean Carroll]

 Personally I wouldn't think a processor upgrade, even a used one,
 would be worth it if you are getting a new Mac soon.

Part of the return on the investment would be learning to perform a
processor upgrade by doing it. A CPU upgrade would seem to go hand in
hand with bringing the computer up to speed in other ways, but I may
be overestimating the benefits and underestimating the risks, hence my
questions. In any event, the Sawtooth is becoming a hobby, and the
payoff will be in the learning and seeing what I can do. I don't
expect to recoup any money spent on it.

Thanks for mentioning Monolingual. Sounds like a good idea.

Sean

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Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Sean Carroll cedarwaxw...@att.net wrote:

  Personally I wouldn't think a processor upgrade, even a used one,
  would be worth it if you are getting a new Mac soon.

 Part of the return on the investment would be learning to perform a
 processor upgrade by doing it. A CPU upgrade would seem to go hand in
 hand with bringing the computer up to speed in other ways, but I may
 be overestimating the benefits and underestimating the risks, hence my
 questions. In any event, the Sawtooth is becoming a hobby, and the
 payoff will be in the learning and seeing what I can do. I don't
 expect to recoup any money spent on it.


Relatively speaking it should be cheap. Be sure to max the RAM. You are
shopping the LEM swap list also I hope.

Don't be afraid of the processor swap. Read up on it. Look at as many mobo
pictures and diagrams as you can find so you are oriented to the parts. And
relax and breathe so your hands are steady. Good lighting and maybe even
magnification might help too.

Never let the hardware smell your fear !  Keep saying to yourself  It's
only an appliance. ( no apologies to nervous Nellies)

-- 
Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
fluxstrin...@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/

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Re: Sawtooth to Sabretooth: The CPU upgrade question

[Sean Carroll]

Thank you, Adrian.

 Be sure to max the RAM. You are
 shopping the LEM swap list also I hope.

Yes, I just added *some* RAM as a start. Funny, and so typical of me,
is that there was a slight error in my calculations (though not a
Crucial - pun intended - one). I installed 1 GB RAM total, 2 modules,
aglow with thoughts of attaining 1.5 GB. I overlooked that I was also
removing 256 MB of RAM in order to do this. So at first, I was
wondering why the system wasn't recognizing all the RAM.

I'm aware of the LEM swap list. Haven't been there yet, as I've been
busy researching the general questions of upgrading.

 Don't be afraid of the processor swap. Read up on it.

Yes. I learned a lot just looking at the PDF instructions for one of
the Newer Technology CPU upgrades. Gave me my first real idea of what
I could be about to get into.

 Never let the hardware smell your fear !

Well, I'm certainly less afraid with good advice here to turn to. The
Sawtooth is still my one and only, so there's a bit of trepidation at
what could go wrong.

 Keep saying to yourself  It's
 only an appliance. ( no apologies to nervous Nellies)

I keep saying to myself, Don't be afraid to admit your ignorance. Ask
questions and learn. Try things and learn.

Sean

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Re: PowerMacG5 Upgrade Question

[aspirito]

Thanks to everyone for responding, much appreciated. It looks like my
best option at this point with the limited funding I have is to trade
in my old G5 and spend a couple of bucks on a new tower. Not ideal,
but will definitely help. I sent a few email feelers to a couple of
sites to see what kind of quote I would get but if anyone knows (or
has dealt with) any competitive sites for trade in's, and if you have
the time, please, let me know. Thanks again!

Anthony


On Jan 11, 4:20 pm, TVirkkala multi...@wirkman.com wrote:
 I asked some questions like this last year



  On 2011/01/11 14:24, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote:
  On Jan 11, 2011, at 2:00 PM, aspirito wrote:

  I love this machine and it's been good to me and I'm wondering
  what (if any) would be the best way to just give it a bit more
  oomph as I do video editing for a living and am about to upgrade
  everything to HD. Works rather well and quickly with the SD
  footage I've been editing for years, but I'm on a new Mac Pro 2.8
  Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon with 6 gigs of memory at work and even
  THAT can take it's sweet time with the hard core 1920x1080
  footage.
  That should tell you right away that about the only upgrade that will
  help is lashing a new Mac Pro Quad Core to the back with duct tape.

  Video editing isn't all that dependent on the video card,
  paradoxically.

  Adding more RAM is probably the best thing you can do to improve video
  editing times. That, or a 15k RPM HDD might help too. But like Bruce I
  don't think the video card is going to matter much on a PPC Mac.

  It might be a different story on a Mac Pro IF Grand Central can pass  
  off
  some of the work from the CPU to the GPU. Honestly though I don't know
  if it does/can.

 My 1.8 GHz G5 tower wouldn't handle video worth a damn. Not for editing.

 So I purchased a G5 Dual 2.3GHz PowerMac, and it does OK. I can do  
 some basic video editing.

 But, truthfully, my Intel-chipped MacBook Pro does much better. I'll  
 be using both Macs at my workstation, soon.

 Timo V
  PowerPC G5x2.3GHz
 MacBook Pro 13 / Workgroup Server 9650 / Power Macintosh 6500 /
 Power Macintosh 5500    /    Macintosh SE/30    /    Macintosh Classic

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PowerMacG5 Upgrade Question

[aspirito]

Greetings,

I did do a search for some earlier posts on this but didn't really
come across anything specifically that answered my question so I'm
hoping to find help here.

I've got a Power Mac G5, (Single) 1.8 Ghz, 1.5 Gigs of DDR SDRAM.

It's the Power PC 970 2.2

I love this machine and it's been good to me and I'm wondering what
(if any) would be the best way to just give it a bit more oomph as I
do video editing for a living and am about to upgrade everything to
HD. Works rather well and quickly with the SD footage I've been
editing for years, but I'm on a new Mac Pro 2.8 Ghz Quad-Core Intel
Xeon with 6 gigs of memory at work and even THAT can take it's sweet
time with the hard core 1920x1080 footage.

I'm broke so an Intel is out of the question. And though I don't
understand video cards that well, it seems that that may be the only
shot I have---and I've read a few posts about folks successfully using
Flashing PCI cards?? ANY info. you guys may have would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks for your time!!

I'm running FCP Studio 6.6

Best,
Anthony S.

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Re: PowerMacG5 Upgrade Question

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 11, 2011, at 2:00 PM, aspirito wrote:

 I love this machine and it's been good to me and I'm wondering what
 (if any) would be the best way to just give it a bit more oomph as I
 do video editing for a living and am about to upgrade everything to
 HD. Works rather well and quickly with the SD footage I've been
 editing for years, but I'm on a new Mac Pro 2.8 Ghz Quad-Core Intel
 Xeon with 6 gigs of memory at work and even THAT can take it's sweet
 time with the hard core 1920x1080 footage.

That should tell you right away that about the only upgrade that will help is 
lashing a new Mac Pro Quad Core to the back with duct tape.

Video editing isn't all that dependent on the video card, paradoxically.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: PowerMacG5 Upgrade Question

[Tina K.]

On 2011/01/11 14:24, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote:

On Jan 11, 2011, at 2:00 PM, aspirito wrote:


I love this machine and it's been good to me and I'm wondering
what (if any) would be the best way to just give it a bit more
oomph as I do video editing for a living and am about to upgrade
everything to HD. Works rather well and quickly with the SD
footage I've been editing for years, but I'm on a new Mac Pro 2.8
Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon with 6 gigs of memory at work and even
THAT can take it's sweet time with the hard core 1920x1080
footage.

That should tell you right away that about the only upgrade that will
help is lashing a new Mac Pro Quad Core to the back with duct tape.

Video editing isn't all that dependent on the video card,
paradoxically.


Adding more RAM is probably the best thing you can do to improve video
editing times. That, or a 15k RPM HDD might help too. But like Bruce I
don't think the video card is going to matter much on a PPC Mac.

It might be a different story on a Mac Pro IF Grand Central can pass off
some of the work from the CPU to the GPU. Honestly though I don't know
if it does/can.

Tina

--

iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB 10.4.11

PB G4 15 HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.5.8

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Re: PowerMacG5 Upgrade Question

[TVirkkala]

I asked some questions like this last year


On 2011/01/11 14:24, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote:

On Jan 11, 2011, at 2:00 PM, aspirito wrote:


I love this machine and it's been good to me and I'm wondering
what (if any) would be the best way to just give it a bit more
oomph as I do video editing for a living and am about to upgrade
everything to HD. Works rather well and quickly with the SD
footage I've been editing for years, but I'm on a new Mac Pro 2.8
Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon with 6 gigs of memory at work and even
THAT can take it's sweet time with the hard core 1920x1080
footage.

That should tell you right away that about the only upgrade that will
help is lashing a new Mac Pro Quad Core to the back with duct tape.

Video editing isn't all that dependent on the video card,
paradoxically.


Adding more RAM is probably the best thing you can do to improve video
editing times. That, or a 15k RPM HDD might help too. But like Bruce I
don't think the video card is going to matter much on a PPC Mac.

It might be a different story on a Mac Pro IF Grand Central can pass  
off

some of the work from the CPU to the GPU. Honestly though I don't know
if it does/can.


My 1.8 GHz G5 tower wouldn't handle video worth a damn. Not for editing.

So I purchased a G5 Dual 2.3GHz PowerMac, and it does OK. I can do  
some basic video editing.


But, truthfully, my Intel-chipped MacBook Pro does much better. I'll  
be using both Macs at my workstation, soon.


Timo V
 PowerPC G5x2.3GHz
MacBook Pro 13 / Workgroup Server 9650 / Power Macintosh 6500 /
Power Macintosh 5500/Macintosh SE/30/Macintosh Classic





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Re: OS X upgrade question

[Greg]

On Jun 18, 8:20 pm, Daniel Stewart daniel.stewart...@gmail.com
wrote:
 I should probably mention that it says on the Software Restore disks
 that it is compatible with OS 10.1.2 and OS 9.22.  Should that give me
 problems with 104.11?


It won't give any problems.  You install 10.4, work up to 10.4.11 and
then download TinkerTool.  You can have the Finder view invisible
files and then navigate your way through the disks to pick and choose
what you want on your Mac.  Just drop everything down in the exact
location the restore disk shows (if it says System/Library/
CoreServices that's where it goes on your Mac for example).  Then
restart so the Mac can read all the stuff you've just thrown in there.

Just be careful using this method, because you don't want to overwrite
anything important (Like the System/Library/CoreServices folder).

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OS X upgrade question

[Scotty]

This may fit under the heading of stupid newbie questions so please be
patient with me.  My Mac may be 8 years old, but I am really new to
the platform.

I have a G4 933 mhz Quicksilver.   When I bought it had a clean
install of OSX 10.5 on it, but no 10.5 disk was included with it.
Anyway.  The software that came with is the original 'grey' copy of
10.1 , all the original application disks plus a retail copy of 10.2
and I have 10.4 from my old lampshade G4 iMac.  Anyway.  What I am
wondering is if I can start by installing the original OS 10.1 and the
original application disks then can I install 10.4 as an upgrade and
without affecting the original application installs or should I try
loading the original application disks that came with 10.1 after I
have 10.4 installed or does it even matter.

Basically I want to get 10.4 Tiger installed with the original
quicksilver applications installed if possible.

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Re: OS X upgrade question

[JOHN CARMONNE]

On Jun 18, 2010, at 4:56 PM, Scotty wrote:


This may fit under the heading of stupid newbie questions so please be
patient with me.  My Mac may be 8 years old, but I am really new to
the platform.

I have a G4 933 mhz Quicksilver.   When I bought it had a clean
install of OSX 10.5 on it, but no 10.5 disk was included with it.
Anyway.  The software that came with is the original 'grey' copy of
10.1 , all the original application disks plus a retail copy of 10.2
and I have 10.4 from my old lampshade G4 iMac.  Anyway.  What I am
wondering is if I can start by installing the original OS 10.1 and the
original application disks then can I install 10.4 as an upgrade and
without affecting the original application installs or should I try
loading the original application disks that came with 10.1 after I
have 10.4 installed or does it even matter.

Basically I want to get 10.4 Tiger installed with the original
quicksilver applications installed if possible.




Just do straight 10.4 and the the updates to 10.4.11. you can skip  
all the other stuff.




JOHN CARMONNE
Yorba Linda USA
From TiBook 800




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Re: OS X upgrade question

[Daniel Stewart]

I should probably mention that it says on the Software Restore disks
that it is compatible with OS 10.1.2 and OS 9.22.  Should that give me
problems with 104.11?

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 6:59 PM, JOHN CARMONNE carmo...@aol.com wrote:

 On Jun 18, 2010, at 4:56 PM, Scotty wrote:

 This may fit under the heading of stupid newbie questions so please be
 patient with me.  My Mac may be 8 years old, but I am really new to
 the platform.

 I have a G4 933 mhz Quicksilver.   When I bought it had a clean
 install of OSX 10.5 on it, but no 10.5 disk was included with it.
 Anyway.  The software that came with is the original 'grey' copy of
 10.1 , all the original application disks plus a retail copy of 10.2
 and I have 10.4 from my old lampshade G4 iMac.  Anyway.  What I am
 wondering is if I can start by installing the original OS 10.1 and the
 original application disks then can I install 10.4 as an upgrade and
 without affecting the original application installs or should I try
 loading the original application disks that came with 10.1 after I
 have 10.4 installed or does it even matter.

 Basically I want to get 10.4 Tiger installed with the original
 quicksilver applications installed if possible.



 Just do straight 10.4 and the the updates to 10.4.11. you can skip all the
 other stuff.



 JOHN CARMONNE
 Yorba Linda USA
 From TiBook 800




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Re: OS X upgrade question

[JOHN CARMONNE]

On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Daniel Stewart wrote:


I should probably mention that it says on the Software Restore disks
that it is compatible with OS 10.1.2 and OS 9.22.  Should that give me
problems with 104.11?




Just do straight 10.4 and the the updates to 10.4.11. you can skip  
all the

other stuff.


AFAIK you should be able to get the applications from the original  
disc's. The 9.2.2 is the only thing your Tiger 10.4 for the Lamp  
Shade doesn't have. Just drag the 9.2.2 stuff to the HDD with the  
Tiger on it. 9 needs no installation.


JOHN CARMONNE
Yorba Linda USA
From TiBook 800




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Upgrade question for my Dual 533 G4

[Mark]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to upgrade by adding Tiger (replacing Panther)  CS 2.
(replacing photoshop 6)  I want to run an updated browser  web design
software compatible w/ tiger.  I know little about computers except
creating art in Photoshop,so would appreciate any suggestions.  I'm
considering a newer Mac if this isn't possible. Below are the
specs:

Dual 533 MHz Mac G4, 1.12 GB SRAM, L2 Cache: 1 MB (per cpu) - Bus
speed: 133 MHz. Memory: up to 1.5 GB Max;+ 128 SRAM
This computer is partitioned - 1. OS 9.2.2, 57.26 GB capacity; 35.14
GB available.
   2. OSX 10.3.9 Panther

Thank you!

Mark

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Re: Upgrade question for my Dual 533 G4

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 23, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Mark mjsteph...@everestkc.net wrote:


I'd like to upgrade by adding Tiger (replacing Panther)  CS 2.


Go right ahead...your system will run Tiger just fine!


--
Bruce

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Re: Upgrade question for my Dual 533 G4

[Bill Christensen]

At 11:58 AM -0700 1/23/10, Kasey Smith wrote:

On Jan 23, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Mark wrote:


Hi everyone,

I'd like to upgrade by adding Tiger (replacing Panther)  CS 2.
(replacing photoshop 6)  I want to run an updated browser  web design
software compatible w/ tiger.  I know little about computers except
creating art in Photoshop,so would appreciate any suggestions.  I'm
considering a newer Mac if this isn't possible. Below are the
specs:

Dual 533 MHz Mac G4, 1.12 GB SRAM, L2 Cache: 1 MB (per cpu) - Bus
speed: 133 MHz. Memory: up to 1.5 GB Max;+ 128 SRAM
This computer is partitioned - 1. OS 9.2.2, 57.26 GB capacity; 35.14
GB available.
   2. OSX 10.3.9 Panther

Thank you!

Mark


You could even do a little poking around and install Leo on there 
and it would run fine. :D


(Leo takes a workaround for under 876MHz G4's, but dual 533MHz might 
even be faster then an 876MHz...)


Tiger will likely run faster for you than Panther on that machine.

I have a near identical DA.

Leopard should work as well, but it may be a little slower than Tiger.



--
Bill Christensen
http://greenbuilder.com/contact/

Green Building Professionals Directory: http://directory.greenbuilder.com
Sustainable Building Calendar: http://Calendar.SustainableSources.com
Green Real Estate: http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/
Straw Bale Registry: http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/
Books/videos/software: http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/

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Re: Upgrade Question

[Doug Burton]

On Apr 2, 2009, at 12:39 PM, andre stark wrote:



 I have a very dependable G4 867 MHz machine that has A LOT of apps  
 on it. However yo upgrade to FCP6 or even Imovie 6 I need Leopard  
 on this machine. is it worth my while upgrading the processor and  
 gfx card (about 500.00) or should I get a used G5 machine.
 Thanks

 Sincerely,

 André Stark

Of all the replies I read I didn't see one which questioned why you  
can't install iMovie 6 on your machine.  I have it on my MDD dual 867  
and it runs fine.  Naturally it will be faster with a faster system  
(ask Peter Haas about his tests times), but it does run and I edited  
most of my VHS movie collection on mine and burned DVD using iDVD.  I  
believe FCP6 would require a faster processor however. HTH

Just a message from Doug...

http://groups.google.com/group/hq-a + A home for the Hackintosh  
community.

To subscribe to the HQ-A group, send email to hq-a 
+subscr...@googlegroups.com





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Re: Upgrade Question

[Al Poulin]

On Apr 2, 7:04 pm, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com
wrote:

 As a media student and semi pro I recommend the G5.  As much of one as you
 can afford.
 The upgrades are nice  and may work but the G5 has a better upgrade future.

I agree on getting a better machine.  Hard to justify spending half a
grand on the old one.  For a G5, do we include the liquid cooled
models that are beginning to leak and corrode the innards?

For the $500 or so, why not consider a used Mac Mini Intel machine, or
even a new one?

Al Poulin
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Re: Upgrade Question

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Doug Burton slu...@embarqmail.com wrote:


 On Apr 2, 2009, at 12:39 PM, andre stark wrote:



 I have a very dependable G4 867 MHz machine that has A LOT of apps on it.
 However yo upgrade to FCP6 or even Imovie 6 I need Leopard on this machine.
 is it worth my while upgrading the processor and gfx card (about 500.00) or
 should I get a used G5 machine.
 Thanks

 Sincerely,

 André Stark


 Of all the replies I read I didn't see one which questioned why you can't
 install iMovie 6 on your machine.  I have it on my MDD dual 867 and it runs
 fine.  Naturally it will be faster with a faster system (ask Peter Haas
 about his tests times), but it does run and I edited most of my VHS movie
 collection on mine and burned DVD using iDVD.  I believe FCP6 would require
 a faster processor however. HTH

 Just a message from Doug...

 http://groups.google.com/group/hq-a + A home for the Hackintosh
 community.

 To subscribe to the HQ-A group, send email to
 hq-a+subscr...@googlegroups.com

 ___


It was not a question of could it be done. Many would try to convince us
that they run FCP on a classic XBox and prove it. The OP wanted advice on
the most cost effective path for a future in a professional video business.
Sticking with an old machine is asking for a world of pain and hurt in such
an environment.

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Re: Upgrade Question

[Stephen Weber]

Thanks for the link, I've been looking for a hackintosh community, since
I've just set up my Toshiba A205-S5803 to be a hackintoshi.  Right now I'm
running 10.5.6 :)

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio 
fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Doug Burton slu...@embarqmail.com wrote:


 On Apr 2, 2009, at 12:39 PM, andre stark wrote:



 I have a very dependable G4 867 MHz machine that has A LOT of apps on it.
 However yo upgrade to FCP6 or even Imovie 6 I need Leopard on this machine.
 is it worth my while upgrading the processor and gfx card (about 500.00) or
 should I get a used G5 machine.
 Thanks

 Sincerely,

 André Stark


 Of all the replies I read I didn't see one which questioned why you can't
 install iMovie 6 on your machine.  I have it on my MDD dual 867 and it runs
 fine.  Naturally it will be faster with a faster system (ask Peter Haas
 about his tests times), but it does run and I edited most of my VHS movie
 collection on mine and burned DVD using iDVD.  I believe FCP6 would require
 a faster processor however. HTH

 Just a message from Doug...

  http://groups.google.com/group/hq-a + A home for the Hackintosh
 community.

 To subscribe to the HQ-A group, send email to
 hq-a+subscr...@googlegroups.com

 ___


 It was not a question of could it be done. Many would try to convince us
 that they run FCP on a classic XBox and prove it. The OP wanted advice on
 the most cost effective path for a future in a professional video business.
 Sticking with an old machine is asking for a world of pain and hurt in such
 an environment.


 


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Upgrade Question

[andre stark]

I have a very dependable G4 867 MHz machine that has A LOT of apps on it. 
However yo upgrade to FCP6 or even Imovie 6 I need Leopard on this machine. is 
it worth my while upgrading the processor and gfx card (about 500.00) or should 
I get a used G5 machine.
Thanks

Sincerely,

André Stark
President
BlackShark Films Inc.
23 Chilton Park
Milton, MA 02186
617-298-1591 (o)
857-544-3783(c)
(360) 242-7648(f)
http://www.blacksharkfilms.com
blacksharkfi...@yahoo.com


  

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Re: Upgrade Question

[Charles Davis]

On Apr 2, 2009, at 12:39 PM, andre stark wrote:



 I have a very dependable G4 867 MHz machine that has A LOT of apps  
 on it. However yo upgrade to FCP6 or even Imovie 6 I need Leopard  
 on this machine. is it worth my while upgrading the processor and  
 gfx card (about 500.00) or should I get a used G5 machine.
 Thanks

 Sincerely,

 André Stark
 President
 BlackShark Films Inc.
 23 Chilton Park
 Milton, MA 02186
 617-298-1591 (o)
 857-544-3783(c)
 (360) 242-7648(f)
 http://www.blacksharkfilms.com
 blacksharkfi...@yahoo.com


This is perilously close to the 'If it ain't broke' place.

A G5 would solve the Leopard, leave you with your still functional G4  
MAC.

Sounds like a Win Win, to me.

Chuck D.
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Re: Upgrade Question

[Bruce Johnson]

On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Charles Davis wrote:



 On Apr 2, 2009, at 12:39 PM, andre stark wrote:



 I have a very dependable G4 867 MHz machine that has A LOT of apps
 on it. However yo upgrade to FCP6 or even Imovie 6 I need Leopard
 on this machine. is it worth my while upgrading the processor and
 gfx card (about 500.00) or should I get a used G5 machine.
 Thanks

 Sincerely,

 André Stark
 President
 BlackShark Films Inc.
 23 Chilton Park
 Milton, MA 02186
 617-298-1591 (o)
 857-544-3783(c)
 (360) 242-7648(f)
 http://www.blacksharkfilms.com
 blacksharkfi...@yahoo.com


 This is perilously close to the 'If it ain't broke' place.

 A G5 would solve the Leopard, leave you with your still functional G4
 MAC.

 Sounds like a Win Win, to me.

More like a Mac Macrimshot

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Upgrade Question

[nestamicky]

Bruce Johnson wrote:
 On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Charles Davis wrote:

   
 On Apr 2, 2009, at 12:39 PM, andre stark wrote:

 
 I have a very dependable G4 867 MHz machine that has A LOT of apps
 on it. However yo upgrade to FCP6 or even Imovie 6 I need Leopard
 on this machine. is it worth my while upgrading the processor and
 gfx card (about 500.00) or should I get a used G5 machine.
 Thanks

 Sincerely,

 André Stark
 President
 BlackShark Films Inc.
 23 Chilton Park
 Milton, MA 02186
 617-298-1591 (o)
 857-544-3783(c)
 (360) 242-7648(f)
 http://www.blacksharkfilms.com
 blacksharkfi...@yahoo.com

   
 This is perilously close to the 'If it ain't broke' place.

 A G5 would solve the Leopard, leave you with your still functional G4
 MAC.

 Sounds like a Win Win, to me.
 

 More like a Mac Macrimshot

   
I think the advise here has been: go get a G5 and not waste money on 
upgrading a G4. Search the forum...


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Re: Upgrade Question

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:39 PM, andre stark blacksharkfi...@yahoo.comwrote:



 I have a very dependable G4 867 MHz machine that has A LOT of apps on it.
 However yo upgrade to FCP6 or even Imovie 6 I need Leopard on this machine.
 is it worth my while upgrading the processor and gfx card (about 500.00) or
 should I get a used G5 machine.
 Thanks
 __


As a media student and semi pro I recommend the G5.  As much of one as you
can afford.
The upgrades are nice  and may work but the G5 has a better upgrade future.

Another lister here uses a PC based Mac system  to do pro video those also
seem to work well at a lower entry cost.

Ideally  of course an Intel Mac would be best for FCP6.

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Re: Upgrade Question

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:39 PM, andre stark blacksharkfi...@yahoo.comwrote:



 I have a very dependable G4 867 MHz machine that has A LOT of apps on it.
 However yo upgrade to FCP6 or even Imovie 6 I need Leopard on this machine.
 is it worth my while upgrading the processor and gfx card (about 500.00) or
 should I get a used G5 machine.
 Thanks


There is a powerful G5 on the swap list right now.

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