Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
LOL. I used have a similar attitude toward school. In my Freshma and Sophomore years of High School anytime I would walk through the school corridors I would mentally hum the cave or Tartarus theme from the NES game Battle of Olympus. Then anytime I was in class with a particularly unliked teacher I would mentally hum the boss theme from the same game and consider every instance when said teacher didn't address me for the answer to a question as a strike to the boss' weak point. Of course getting out of that class when the bell rang was my victory over the boss. LOL. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:56 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters I remember after I moved to my horrible new boarding school playing the game rampage on the Amigar. For those who don't know, rampage is a game where you play as either a gorilla, a lizard or a giant wolf man and must destroy the city by tearing down buildings. Believing that I was smashing up my new school was rather good fun, particularly since it was a cracked Amigar coppy with a cheat screen I had infinite lives so couldn't be killed by the puny tanks and hellicopters sent against me! :D. Bewaree the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Shaun, I am sure games work for different people in different ways, but I do agree it does help in large part with say anger management. It is a constructive way to deal with ones anger, feelings of harming someone or something, in a way that is socially acceptable. There have been many times in my life when I was very angry, very upset, and I turned on a video game and took out my feelings of rage upon the virtual game characters. I might beat them senseless in a beat-m-up or killed everything in sight in an FPS game. Either way I was able to redirect that anger, that rage, in a way that allowed me to get rid of it without directing it at a real person. Cheers! On 12/16/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well I find that playing some of these games just gets rid of the anger I would have had if I didn't. So it must work for others in different ways. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Charles, What you say is true to a point. In professional wrestling a lot of things are staged for show rather than actually being done, but that does not mean everything is faked. There are plenty of cases where professional wrestlers have been seriously injured in matches and have suffered pulled muscles, broken bones, had separations, and other injuries which were not staged. Moreover in the WWE a lot of those professional athletes really do get hit with steel chairs, thrown off ladders, thrown through wooden tables, and it hurts just as much as you imagine it would. They are, however, trained to not hit somewhere where the blow could be fatal, and sometimes do it without putting their entire strength into it minimizing its effects. However, your basic premise is correct. If they actually did everything they show on TV a lot of athletes would be seriously injured or killed, and that is why they always have the warning for kids not to try this stuff at home because they know it is dangerous stuff if taken too seriously. Cheers! On 12/17/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Thinking of how people like violence, it makes me think of what is known as professional, wrestling, roller derby, and something I heard about the other day, in which children from as young as 5 years and older are put into a cage and they punch and kick each other. The only apparent rule is that you cannot punch or kick the head. I would not at all be interested in any such entertainment, as, to me, it would not be entertaining. If the wrestlers actually did a lot of what they supposedly do, like breaking a chair across the opponent's head, tossing them over the top rope, body slamming with everything they can muster, using illegal implements to cut the opponent, and so on, they would be killing each other. Roller Derby incorporates a lot of roughness that is also not really done, as well, from what I recall. Although it isn't shown weekly on TV anymore, it is still an organized professional sport. I didn't know this until a news report I saw about 2 years ago. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
That reminds me of my brother-in-law who, after seeing some cartoon guy electricute his buddy, hooked a wire up to a metal chair and just waited with itchy anticipation for me to sit down. Fortunately for me, he didn't know that he had to plug the other end of the wire into something for power, or I'd be toast. Also, earlier posts about violence in video games reminded me of my daughter. Before i realized how bloody Quake was, I let her play it. She was about four, and thought the nailgun was just a paper airplane launcher. The monsters with the axe freaked her out though, so she stopped playing when she saw that--for a few hours. Then she found out she could use the axe and bugged me, every day, to let her play. Mom saw how bloody the games graphics looked and wouldn't let her play though lol. Check out my games at www.ThePionEar.net and my music, and that of my band, at www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html . Also, check out, The Believer and Skeptic Show, at iTunes! If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com . - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, What you say is true to a point. In professional wrestling a lot of things are staged for show rather than actually being done, but that does not mean everything is faked. There are plenty of cases where professional wrestlers have been seriously injured in matches and have suffered pulled muscles, broken bones, had separations, and other injuries which were not staged. Moreover in the WWE a lot of those professional athletes really do get hit with steel chairs, thrown off ladders, thrown through wooden tables, and it hurts just as much as you imagine it would. They are, however, trained to not hit somewhere where the blow could be fatal, and sometimes do it without putting their entire strength into it minimizing its effects. However, your basic premise is correct. If they actually did everything they show on TV a lot of athletes would be seriously injured or killed, and that is why they always have the warning for kids not to try this stuff at home because they know it is dangerous stuff if taken too seriously. Cheers! On 12/17/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Thinking of how people like violence, it makes me think of what is known as professional, wrestling, roller derby, and something I heard about the other day, in which children from as young as 5 years and older are put into a cage and they punch and kick each other. The only apparent rule is that you cannot punch or kick the head. I would not at all be interested in any such entertainment, as, to me, it would not be entertaining. If the wrestlers actually did a lot of what they supposedly do, like breaking a chair across the opponent's head, tossing them over the top rope, body slamming with everything they can muster, using illegal implements to cut the opponent, and so on, they would be killing each other. Roller Derby incorporates a lot of roughness that is also not really done, as well, from what I recall. Although it isn't shown weekly on TV anymore, it is still an organized professional sport. I didn't know this until a news report I saw about 2 years ago. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Plus, it sounds cool and it is fun. Do totally unnecessary damage to game characters just because you can. Take the frustrations out on something, rather than someone. Have a blast, and you're less angry at people. I've done that, too. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Shaun, I am sure games work for different people in different ways, but I do agree it does help in large part with say anger management. It is a constructive way to deal with ones anger, feelings of harming someone or something, in a way that is socially acceptable. There have been many times in my life when I was very angry, very upset, and I turned on a video game and took out my feelings of rage upon the virtual game characters. I might beat them senseless in a beat-m-up or killed everything in sight in an FPS game. Either way I was able to redirect that anger, that rage, in a way that allowed me to get rid of it without directing it at a real person. Cheers! On 12/16/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well I find that playing some of these games just gets rid of the anger I would have had if I didn't. So it must work for others in different ways. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
well I find that playing some of these games just gets rid of the anger I would have had if I didn't. So it must work for others in different ways. At 05:45 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote: A recent interesting article I read (there's a link to it on the wikipedia entry for Doom), actually stated that the corrilation between committing violent crimes and playing violent games was not correct. it was true that many sterriotypical psychotic personalities tend to play games that require little interraction with other people since as psychopaths they find personal interaction difficult, and thus played fps and other games alone, however the proportion of none psychopaths who played such games was far higher and there wasn't over all a corriilation found. The big one was one of the more serious shootings that happened in an American school in the 1990's, where it was discovered the offender had played doom and it was believed that he'd created doom level mods to resembles the insides of the school where he committed the shootings and mods of the doom monsters to resemble his class mates. This however was a media fabrication, and though he had! created doom levels (like literally thousands of other people), none were of his school. To be honest these days only the ill informed and naive tend to believe that someone who plays a game about shooting people or fighting with melee weapons would do the same in real life. The worry tends to be that playing violent games increases anger and aggression, though i've seen a lot of conflicting evidence on this. Again though this is why I personally tend to believe that people treat the subject a little too simply. I grew up playing Golden axe, double dragon (I was about 6 or 7 when playing those two games), Ninja turtles arcade game, Simpsons beatemup, final fight, street fighter 2, the Mortal combat series, killer instinct, primal rage and slightly later on soul blade, and Eternal champions streets of rage (though I was 17 before I got my mega drive). My parents only ever banned me from playing games like Viz with a little mild adult humour ( about the same level of jokes as the naked gun films), when i was 9 or 10, and a couple of years later they relaxed on that since they'd explained to me enough about adult relations for those, though I think anything actually dodgy they'd have had a problem with. Though they were always of the opinion that being up front helped, indeed I only developed genophobia in my late teens. I thus grew up playing vaguely violent games at a young age, and I'm now at least mostly a pasifist! I think I passed the age of I saw it on tv so I'll do it when I was about 3! indeed I have a very early memory of my mum patiently explaining to me that the show mallet's mallet used a soft rubber mallet to bonk people on the head with so it didn't hurt, and thus I didn't attempt to replicate this with a toy mallet :D. This is why I said the simplistic, mechanistic monkey see monkey do idea just seems unreasonable to apply to adult humans. Whether however violent intentions or games that exist just! for their violent spectacle are okay is another matter as I said. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Charles, Exactly. I know times when playing Shades of doom when I went on a rampage just because I could. I blew up walls, blew up equipment, killed monsters left and right, and even had fun chasing the insane scientist around and watching him run for his life, and then when I got done playing cat and mouse I'd kill him with the chainsaw or something. All of it was a diversion from the way I was feeling at the time, redirected my anger at someone or something that didn't really exist, and nobody got hurt. It doesn't make me a psychopathic killer just because I took out my rage on a few monsters and such in a game. Cheers! On 12/17/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Plus, it sounds cool and it is fun. Do totally unnecessary damage to game characters just because you can. Take the frustrations out on something, rather than someone. Have a blast, and you're less angry at people. I've done that, too. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Shaun, I am sure games work for different people in different ways, but I do agree it does help in large part with say anger management. It is a constructive way to deal with ones anger, feelings of harming someone or something, in a way that is socially acceptable. There have been many times in my life when I was very angry, very upset, and I turned on a video game and took out my feelings of rage upon the virtual game characters. I might beat them senseless in a beat-m-up or killed everything in sight in an FPS game. Either way I was able to redirect that anger, that rage, in a way that allowed me to get rid of it without directing it at a real person. Cheers! On 12/16/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well I find that playing some of these games just gets rid of the anger I would have had if I didn't. So it must work for others in different ways. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Or smash up that virtual car. LOL. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:34 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Plus, it sounds cool and it is fun. Do totally unnecessary damage to game characters just because you can. Take the frustrations out on something, rather than someone. Have a blast, and you're less angry at people. I've done that, too. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Shaun, I am sure games work for different people in different ways, but I do agree it does help in large part with say anger management. It is a constructive way to deal with ones anger, feelings of harming someone or something, in a way that is socially acceptable. There have been many times in my life when I was very angry, very upset, and I turned on a video game and took out my feelings of rage upon the virtual game characters. I might beat them senseless in a beat-m-up or killed everything in sight in an FPS game. Either way I was able to redirect that anger, that rage, in a way that allowed me to get rid of it without directing it at a real person. Cheers! On 12/16/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well I find that playing some of these games just gets rid of the anger I would have had if I didn't. So it must work for others in different ways. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Just be careful of those mined machines on levels 1 and 8 LOL. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:43 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, Exactly. I know times when playing Shades of doom when I went on a rampage just because I could. I blew up walls, blew up equipment, killed monsters left and right, and even had fun chasing the insane scientist around and watching him run for his life, and then when I got done playing cat and mouse I'd kill him with the chainsaw or something. All of it was a diversion from the way I was feeling at the time, redirected my anger at someone or something that didn't really exist, and nobody got hurt. It doesn't make me a psychopathic killer just because I took out my rage on a few monsters and such in a game. Cheers! On 12/17/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Plus, it sounds cool and it is fun. Do totally unnecessary damage to game characters just because you can. Take the frustrations out on something, rather than someone. Have a blast, and you're less angry at people. I've done that, too. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I remember after I moved to my horrible new boarding school playing the game rampage on the Amigar. For those who don't know, rampage is a game where you play as either a gorilla, a lizard or a giant wolf man and must destroy the city by tearing down buildings. Believing that I was smashing up my new school was rather good fun, particularly since it was a cracked Amigar coppy with a cheat screen I had infinite lives so couldn't be killed by the puny tanks and hellicopters sent against me! :D. Bewaree the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Shaun, I am sure games work for different people in different ways, but I do agree it does help in large part with say anger management. It is a constructive way to deal with ones anger, feelings of harming someone or something, in a way that is socially acceptable. There have been many times in my life when I was very angry, very upset, and I turned on a video game and took out my feelings of rage upon the virtual game characters. I might beat them senseless in a beat-m-up or killed everything in sight in an FPS game. Either way I was able to redirect that anger, that rage, in a way that allowed me to get rid of it without directing it at a real person. Cheers! On 12/16/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well I find that playing some of these games just gets rid of the anger I would have had if I didn't. So it must work for others in different ways. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Interesting discussion. Thanks Teresa for that article, though I tend to agree with Dark in being of the No pseudoscientific BS, please persuasion. :) As for violence in games, well, at the risk of being controversial, recall that Ancient Rome was famous for, among other things, training people to kill each other for other peoples' entertainment. What does that say for the human condition? I'd argue that FPS games with a backstory of violence are, in a sense, simply a less murderous, more civilised renditioning of the gladiators of ancient times. If you ever did get sufficiently absorbed into a violent story, one in which you were the main source of death and destruction even for no justifiable or readily apparent reason, would you not hope that you were able to differentiate between the virtual and real world, and see an obvious problem with killing in the real world? I would. :) There are, of course, other things in life that inspire selfishness, but which we see fit as a society to embrace on the basis of mutual understanding. Which things, and whether or not it's justified, is left up to the reader to decide. :) Cheers, Sabahattin --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
This is where supervision is of key importance. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters I think part of the issue here is the time in one's life at which they play a lot of the more violent sorts of games. I do believe it is different for someone whose brain is fully developed to play such games from someone in their teens playing such games. The reason being, that a teenager's brain is still developing in key ways. So I would posit that a younger player ought not to engage in a steady diet of violent games for long periods of time, as this then becomes a really big influence on their still-developing brain. Now it is also true that adults brains are still able to grow and change, so in that sense I would agree that if an adult really just spent all their time playing violent games that this would be concerning as well. Personally while I do like the more laser-tag like aspects of playing an FPS online with friends, I really do not like the violent aspects of many FPS style games. Just my thoughts… Thanks for a great discussion. Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, I have to admit that I love horror and a certain amount of violence. It gets the adrenaline flowing and scares the crud out of me, and i get a rush. If I still get a rush from it, and I play the same amount at the same level, I suppose I’m not getting terribly desensitized. :) Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: How do you define a monster, in theory? A monster is a dehumanised creature with characteristics of evil. A zombie is a legendary creature from which a human once died. When it comes to playing things to dehumanising a creature, it allows us to feel less tender-hearted towards that creature so we can destroy it. Myself, games that entail any form of violence I steer-clear unless they have puzzles (like the ones you stated). The point here is to have as minimal amount of violence. On 12/15/2013 11:18 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Just my opinion, so here goes: Pit bulls and roosters, both bred and trained for fighting, and those spectator events, are disgusting to me, and I don't think of games like Grand Theft Auto in the same way, because it is your choice whether to let them become a factor in what you do in real life. If you blame a game on why you act as you do, it's time you get a taste of reality lesson in prison. Cock fight promoters and pit bull event participants should also be imprisoned. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Sabahattin Gucukoglu listse...@me.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 7:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Interesting discussion. Thanks Teresa for that article, though I tend to agree with Dark in being of the No pseudoscientific BS, please persuasion. :) As for violence in games, well, at the risk of being controversial, recall that Ancient Rome was famous for, among other things, training people to kill each other for other peoples' entertainment. What does that say for the human condition? I'd argue that FPS games with a backstory of violence are, in a sense, simply a less murderous, more civilised renditioning of the gladiators of ancient times. If you ever did get sufficiently absorbed into a violent story, one in which you were the main source of death and destruction even for no justifiable or readily apparent reason, would you not hope that you were able to differentiate between the virtual and real world, and see an obvious problem with killing in the real world? I would. :) There are, of course, other things in life that inspire selfishness, but which we see fit as a society to embrace on the basis of mutual understanding. Which things, and whether or not it's justified, is left up to the reader to decide. :) Cheers, Sabahattin --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Teresa, I agree with you for the most part. In a lot of my games, the ones I am working on, the enemies are unreal creatures like skeletons, centaurs, harpies, and so on. It still involves violence, but I don't think killing monsters or mythical creatures is the same as killing real people in games. That said, even when I do play games with real people I don't necessarily have any intention of going out and doing that in real life. I know that the terrorists or enemy soldiers are make believe, are just products of the developer's imagination, and don't necessarily have anything to do with the real world. So killing people even in games is not really as bad as people make it out to be. Cheers! On 12/15/13, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com wrote: I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I agree. I'd never do that. though you do wander if games ever became as real as the world outside them that would be a problem. I like playing some of those game to blow off steam but I wouldn't just get a gun and start shooting. At 09:22 AM 12/16/2013, you wrote: The decisions you make in life should not be based on those you make in a violent game. If you cannot separate the two, you shouldn't be playing the games. That's where self control and or supervision at a young impressionable age are necessary. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters I don't think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Right. As long as you know that it is a fictional game, and you know that there are consequences to killing people in real life, and you know the difference between a game and real life, and that you take the consequences for what you do in real life, and you know that what you do is your fault and nobody else's, no problem. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Teresa, I agree with you for the most part. In a lot of my games, the ones I am working on, the enemies are unreal creatures like skeletons, centaurs, harpies, and so on. It still involves violence, but I don't think killing monsters or mythical creatures is the same as killing real people in games. That said, even when I do play games with real people I don't necessarily have any intention of going out and doing that in real life. I know that the terrorists or enemy soldiers are make believe, are just products of the developer's imagination, and don't necessarily have anything to do with the real world. So killing people even in games is not really as bad as people make it out to be. Cheers! On 12/15/13, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com wrote: I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
If games become as real as the world, what would they be? They would still be games. If you can't tell the difference between them, you should go and get your mind checked out. It's time for you to learn the difference. Not you, personally, of course, but I'm speaking of anyone with the problem differentiating between games, regardless of how realistic they are, and real life. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters I agree. I'd never do that. though you do wander if games ever became as real as the world outside them that would be a problem. I like playing some of those game to blow off steam but I wouldn't just get a gun and start shooting. At 09:22 AM 12/16/2013, you wrote: The decisions you make in life should not be based on those you make in a violent game. If you cannot separate the two, you shouldn't be playing the games. That's where self control and or supervision at a young impressionable age are necessary. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters I don't think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
interesting thought on Rome Sebby, especially since I remember reading some documents that the romans had the very same debates about violent gladiatorial combat being generally bad for it's citizens psychological wellbeing as we have about computer games :D. The one major difference between the violent spectacles of Rome however (apart from the lack of people actually being killed), is interaction and intention. These days, say you used complex digital effects to create a full, absolutely realistic gladiatorial arena in which virtual gladiators sliced and diced each other just for your entertainment, well while some immature people would probably be of the h blood, oooh goood mentality, I don't think it'd satisfy most people. heck, the common cryticism of many Hollywood films is that they devolve into just this, ie, violence and action for no particularly good reason according to the plot, (and yes, some coorporations and film directors do take advantage of this). This is why I find intention as much of interest as the violence. With the Gladiatorial arena the intention was usually just spactacle for the sake of spectacle, or occasionally execution as public deterrent much as hangings or other executions were treated in western society throughout history. I'm not sure myself whether most people in society, or at least those with brains would be satisfied with just that sort of spectacle, or whether we'd want something more engaging with story and characters (remember in rome both the theatre and the novel were in their infancy). As an interesting point however, though films like Gladiator and sparticus show the gladiators outside the arena being treated with really inhuman cruelty, being beaten, starved, locked up etc, actual historical evidence is that gladiators lived a pretty good life when not fighting and many were treated as celebrities throughout roman society despite being slaves. i always find it interesting that in Rome only two groups in society had hospitals. Wealthy citizens could personally employ a surgion or a healer, and of course the poor had to make do, but only two groups got free medical care and a hospital in the modern sense with regular health checks, the army, and gladiators! Indeed, Claudius Galen one of the founding minds of western medicine, the first to construct a human skeleton, build artifician limbs and at least diagnose several diseases was a surgion in a gladiator hospital in Alexandra. So, bad as the Romans were, maybe they weren't all bad :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
A recent interesting article I read (there's a link to it on the wikipedia entry for Doom), actually stated that the corrilation between committing violent crimes and playing violent games was not correct. it was true that many sterriotypical psychotic personalities tend to play games that require little interraction with other people since as psychopaths they find personal interaction difficult, and thus played fps and other games alone, however the proportion of none psychopaths who played such games was far higher and there wasn't over all a corriilation found. The big one was one of the more serious shootings that happened in an American school in the 1990's, where it was discovered the offender had played doom and it was believed that he'd created doom level mods to resembles the insides of the school where he committed the shootings and mods of the doom monsters to resemble his class mates. This however was a media fabrication, and though he had! created doom levels (like literally thousands of other people), none were of his school. To be honest these days only the ill informed and naive tend to believe that someone who plays a game about shooting people or fighting with melee weapons would do the same in real life. The worry tends to be that playing violent games increases anger and aggression, though i've seen a lot of conflicting evidence on this. Again though this is why I personally tend to believe that people treat the subject a little too simply. I grew up playing Golden axe, double dragon (I was about 6 or 7 when playing those two games), Ninja turtles arcade game, Simpsons beatemup, final fight, street fighter 2, the Mortal combat series, killer instinct, primal rage and slightly later on soul blade, and Eternal champions streets of rage (though I was 17 before I got my mega drive). My parents only ever banned me from playing games like Viz with a little mild adult humour ( about the same level of jokes as the naked gun films), when i was 9 or 10, and a couple of years later they relaxed on that since they'd explained to me enough about adult relations for those, though I think anything actually dodgy they'd have had a problem with. Though they were always of the opinion that being up front helped, indeed I only developed genophobia in my late teens. I thus grew up playing vaguely violent games at a young age, and I'm now at least mostly a pasifist! I think I passed the age of I saw it on tv so I'll do it when I was about 3! indeed I have a very early memory of my mum patiently explaining to me that the show mallet's mallet used a soft rubber mallet to bonk people on the head with so it didn't hurt, and thus I didn't attempt to replicate this with a toy mallet :D. This is why I said the simplistic, mechanistic monkey see monkey do idea just seems unreasonable to apply to adult humans. Whether however violent intentions or games that exist just! for their violent spectacle are okay is another matter as I said. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Thinking of how people like violence, it makes me think of what is known as professional, wrestling, roller derby, and something I heard about the other day, in which children from as young as 5 years and older are put into a cage and they punch and kick each other. The only apparent rule is that you cannot punch or kick the head. I would not at all be interested in any such entertainment, as, to me, it would not be entertaining. If the wrestlers actually did a lot of what they supposedly do, like breaking a chair across the opponent's head, tossing them over the top rope, body slamming with everything they can muster, using illegal implements to cut the opponent, and so on, they would be killing each other. Roller Derby incorporates a lot of roughness that is also not really done, as well, from what I recall. Although it isn't shown weekly on TV anymore, it is still an organized professional sport. I didn't know this until a news report I saw about 2 years ago. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters interesting thought on Rome Sebby, especially since I remember reading some documents that the romans had the very same debates about violent gladiatorial combat being generally bad for it's citizens psychological wellbeing as we have about computer games :D. The one major difference between the violent spectacles of Rome however (apart from the lack of people actually being killed), is interaction and intention. These days, say you used complex digital effects to create a full, absolutely realistic gladiatorial arena in which virtual gladiators sliced and diced each other just for your entertainment, well while some immature people would probably be of the h blood, oooh goood mentality, I don't think it'd satisfy most people. heck, the common cryticism of many Hollywood films is that they devolve into just this, ie, violence and action for no particularly good reason according to the plot, (and yes, some coorporations and film directors do take advantage of this). This is why I find intention as much of interest as the violence. With the Gladiatorial arena the intention was usually just spactacle for the sake of spectacle, or occasionally execution as public deterrent much as hangings or other executions were treated in western society throughout history. I'm not sure myself whether most people in society, or at least those with brains would be satisfied with just that sort of spectacle, or whether we'd want something more engaging with story and characters (remember in rome both the theatre and the novel were in their infancy). As an interesting point however, though films like Gladiator and sparticus show the gladiators outside the arena being treated with really inhuman cruelty, being beaten, starved, locked up etc, actual historical evidence is that gladiators lived a pretty good life when not fighting and many were treated as celebrities throughout roman society despite being slaves. i always find it interesting that in Rome only two groups in society had hospitals. Wealthy citizens could personally employ a surgion or a healer, and of course the poor had to make do, but only two groups got free medical care and a hospital in the modern sense with regular health checks, the army, and gladiators! Indeed, Claudius Galen one of the founding minds of western medicine, the first to construct a human skeleton, build artifician limbs and at least diagnose several diseases was a surgion in a gladiator hospital in Alexandra. So, bad as the Romans were, maybe they weren't all bad :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Yeah, and pro wrestlers are perfectly capable of killing, but don't. Wrestling is a great combination of performance art and athletecism, IMO. teresa Sent using Alpine messaging system in Mac OS X Terminal --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Well charlse I never said some people didn't have a base desire for violence on it's own merrits, the same way people take drinking alcohol to excess, some people are just wrong! heck, I know pubs in nottingham where my parents live who regularly have bet on illegal bare knuckle fist fights, though obviously they aren't really pubs you'd want to go in. It just strikes me however assuming everyone has this desire or in some way games appeal to it is over simplifying since in the end saying everyone in the world is scummy is just as naive and ill informed as the opposite. Professional wrestling is a good case in point, since a good proportion of the fans are more interested in the sort of soap opera plot, the rivalries and the theatrics as what goes on in the ring, indeed a friend of my brothers actually reccords wwe roar, and forwards past all the actual matchs, just watching the interviews and the pre match taunting since apparently she enjoys the plot, the insults etc but doesn't really care about the boddy slams and so on. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Thinking of how people like violence, it makes me think of what is known as professional, wrestling, roller derby, and something I heard about the other day, in which children from as young as 5 years and older are put into a cage and they punch and kick each other. The only apparent rule is that you cannot punch or kick the head. I would not at all be interested in any such entertainment, as, to me, it would not be entertaining. If the wrestlers actually did a lot of what they supposedly do, like breaking a chair across the opponent's head, tossing them over the top rope, body slamming with everything they can muster, using illegal implements to cut the opponent, and so on, they would be killing each other. Roller Derby incorporates a lot of roughness that is also not really done, as well, from what I recall. Although it isn't shown weekly on TV anymore, it is still an organized professional sport. I didn't know this until a news report I saw about 2 years ago. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters interesting thought on Rome Sebby, especially since I remember reading some documents that the romans had the very same debates about violent gladiatorial combat being generally bad for it's citizens psychological wellbeing as we have about computer games :D. The one major difference between the violent spectacles of Rome however (apart from the lack of people actually being killed), is interaction and intention. These days, say you used complex digital effects to create a full, absolutely realistic gladiatorial arena in which virtual gladiators sliced and diced each other just for your entertainment, well while some immature people would probably be of the h blood, oooh goood mentality, I don't think it'd satisfy most people. heck, the common cryticism of many Hollywood films is that they devolve into just this, ie, violence and action for no particularly good reason according to the plot, (and yes, some coorporations and film directors do take advantage of this). This is why I find intention as much of interest as the violence. With the Gladiatorial arena the intention was usually just spactacle for the sake of spectacle, or occasionally execution as public deterrent much as hangings or other executions were treated in western society throughout history. I'm not sure myself whether most people in society, or at least those with brains would be satisfied with just that sort of spectacle, or whether we'd want something more engaging with story and characters (remember in rome both the theatre and the novel were in their infancy). As an interesting point however, though films like Gladiator and sparticus show the gladiators outside the arena being treated with really inhuman cruelty, being beaten, starved, locked up etc, actual historical evidence is that gladiators lived a pretty good life when not fighting and many were treated as celebrities throughout roman society despite being slaves. i always find it interesting that in Rome only two groups in society had hospitals. Wealthy citizens could personally employ a surgion or a healer, and of course the poor had to make do, but only two groups got free medical care and a hospital in the modern sense with regular health checks, the army, and gladiators! Indeed, Claudius Galen one of the founding minds of western medicine
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
How do you define a monster, in theory? A monster is a dehumanised creature with characteristics of evil. A zombie is a legendary creature from which a human once died. When it comes to playing things to dehumanising a creature, it allows us to feel less tender-hearted towards that creature so we can destroy it. Myself, games that entail any form of violence I steer-clear unless they have puzzles (like the ones you stated). The point here is to have as minimal amount of violence. On 12/15/2013 11:18 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Oh, I have to admit that I love horror and a certain amount of violence. It gets the adrenaline flowing and scares the crud out of me, and i get a rush. If I still get a rush from it, and I play the same amount at the same level, I suppose I’m not getting terribly desensitized. :) Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: How do you define a monster, in theory? A monster is a dehumanised creature with characteristics of evil. A zombie is a legendary creature from which a human once died. When it comes to playing things to dehumanising a creature, it allows us to feel less tender-hearted towards that creature so we can destroy it. Myself, games that entail any form of violence I steer-clear unless they have puzzles (like the ones you stated). The point here is to have as minimal amount of violence. On 12/15/2013 11:18 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Also love reading horror books because I enjoy foreshadowing what is going to happen next. A few years ago I got caught up on reading all of the R. L. Stine books. I still believe that we can enjoy whatever we want as long as we are open-minded. I know a few individuals who have been affected by the games they play and because of their attitudes I was forced to leave. On 12/15/2013 11:29 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: Oh, I have to admit that I love horror and a certain amount of violence. It gets the adrenaline flowing and scares the crud out of me, and i get a rush. If I still get a rush from it, and I play the same amount at the same level, I suppose I’m not getting terribly desensitized. :) Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: How do you define a monster, in theory? A monster is a dehumanised creature with characteristics of evil. A zombie is a legendary creature from which a human once died. When it comes to playing things to dehumanising a creature, it allows us to feel less tender-hearted towards that creature so we can destroy it. Myself, games that entail any form of violence I steer-clear unless they have puzzles (like the ones you stated). The point here is to have as minimal amount of violence. On 12/15/2013 11:18 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
The decisions you make in life should not be based on those you make in a violent game. If you cannot separate the two, you shouldn't be playing the games. That's where self control and or supervision at a young impressionable age are necessary. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Exactly, I enjoyed playing games like that but because my attention was distracted elsewhere, I never got addicted to those games, though I know a few who have and they say because it has a lot of replay value. On 12/15/2013 12:22 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: The decisions you make in life should not be based on those you make in a violent game. If you cannot separate the two, you shouldn't be playing the games. That's where self control and or supervision at a young impressionable age are necessary. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
In my opinion, they didn’t get addicted to them because they have a lot of replay value. They got addicted to them because those folks had little or no self-control. Teresa Slow down; you'll get there faster. On Dec 15, 2013, at 12:36 PM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: Exactly, I enjoyed playing games like that but because my attention was distracted elsewhere, I never got addicted to those games, though I know a few who have and they say because it has a lot of replay value. On 12/15/2013 12:22 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: The decisions you make in life should not be based on those you make in a violent game. If you cannot separate the two, you shouldn't be playing the games. That's where self control and or supervision at a young impressionable age are necessary. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
It really depends. Some people do indeed get hooked because they believe a game has replay value. Then of course you do have the other sort. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! -Original Message- From: Teresa Cochran Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 3:01 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters In my opinion, they didn’t get addicted to them because they have a lot of replay value. They got addicted to them because those folks had little or no self-control. Teresa Slow down; you'll get there faster. On Dec 15, 2013, at 12:36 PM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: Exactly, I enjoyed playing games like that but because my attention was distracted elsewhere, I never got addicted to those games, though I know a few who have and they say because it has a lot of replay value. On 12/15/2013 12:22 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: The decisions you make in life should not be based on those you make in a violent game. If you cannot separate the two, you shouldn't be playing the games. That's where self control and or supervision at a young impressionable age are necessary. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Interesting article, and I do like the idea relating to control and snap decision making, though i confess I always am a little suspicious of evolutionary explanations for behaviour since they can often be something of a theoretical blackbox and thus come under Karl Poppa's crytique of falsificationism, ie, an educated guess based on the pet theory of the psychologist in question which hi/sher subjects cannot refuse because the psychologist is in the position of possessing prevelidged information about the subject which the subject cannot access. Ie, we are evolved to behave like this because I happen to think this particular evolutionary story fits this behaviour Myself though I'm a little concerned by some of the comments about people going for essentially a quick fix of control and instant problem solving rather than partaking in plot and atmosphere. I enjoyed both swamp and shades of doom, but primarily for the emotional engagement of exploring an environment full of nasties, getting new places to go and never knowing when soemthing would leap out and attack, indeed even though both shades of doom and Gma tank commander are loosely speaking first person shooters, I prefer Shades of doom for it's atmosphere. likewise, while I've often wanted to play mainstream games in the fps genre like Silent Hill, Doom 3 or the Metroid Prime series it is primarily for their atmospheric sense and something like call of duty just doesn't appeal at all. Indeed it's interesting that the article referenced doom, since while the original doom was very much a horror gore fest who's plot was essentially hard as nales space marine goes to hell to blow up demons, Doom 3 took a much different approach. With doom 3 (a game a good friend of mine was a major fan of and which I've seen various bits from), things were much closer to the investigation of the research base where something bad had happened. The action sequences were interpspersed with lots of investigation and wandering around, and a good serving of adventure elements too,you even have puzzles to solve based on picking up lab reports. That tendency to disregard plot and go for action is also why there is largely now very much a polarisation between different groups of gamers in the mainstream, ie, casual and hard core. Indeed among many hard core gamers, fans of retro games etc there is sort of a disregard of fps games essentially because! of this focus of run in and slaughter all your friends rather than caring about the plot,, indeed when one of the spag magazines praised the Silent Hill series for it's plot and atmosphere and classified it in the same category of experience as an interactive fiction game, (albeit in a visual rather than textual medium), the most common comment was but it's an fps! While I do agree dissimissing all fps games as lmindless death match action fests isn't fair, at the same time I can at least to some extent understand why people do it. Beware the Grue! Dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Teresa. I'm not sure on your correlation between killing people and rpgs, while it happens in some it is by no means a staple of the genre. Entombed for example has an entire dungeon of Goblins, Orcs, harpies, centaurs, elemental magic creatures, lizard men and the like, no humans or even demi human races such as elves and dwarves at all. In the same way, a stratogy game like Lunimals your not actually fighting anyone at all! just trying to build a workable biosphere and eco system on the moon. Even in Castaways, though you have goblins and yetties attack you, it is mainly the environment that is your enemy, with you needing to build a settlement through various disasters like droubts or diseases, indeed I'd love to see a pure civilization game myself with nobody to fight at all, just the varying challenges of the environmen. Military stratogy is just one element of stratogy games. Then of course there is the intention factor. Even in something like King of Dragon pass, where you command a clan of bronze age, viking style people, though part of your life involves rading other clans for cattle, and people might occasionally get killed, your actul goal in the game is to create peace by good political negotiation with the other clans and eventually form a kingdom, indeed you can play as a peaceful clan and not do any raiding at all, (though this might upset some of your clan's warriors). Of course everyone has different game play preferences which is fair enough, but if your just avoiding rpgs and stratogy games since you don't like killing humans, well you might not have all the information on that one. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I disagree ulysses with your monster deffinition and with your idea that including different in game monsters is just a way for us to dress something up to vent our violent urges. in the past it was necessary to kill wolves and other predators as a matter of survival, heck there are still parts of britain where it is necessary for farmers to kill foxes and badgers in order for their animals to survive. That is part of that situation. A wolf or a lion or a crocadile is not evil in and of themselves, they obey their nature, unfortunately part of that conflicts with humans. The same goes with zombies, malevlolent ghosts like poltergheists, and monstrous beasts such as dinosaurs. When we play a game we are interacting with a new situation and environment and one we would not have in real life, be that controlling a bio dome on the moon, playing poker and betting thousands of dollars, or indeed traveling a zombi infested city. As such we participate in the nature of that environment, and if it includes zombiess mosnters etc, that's part of the world at that point and we're not going to survive in that world without doing what must be done the same way a poker player wouldn't survive without betting money, none are reflections of real world actions or situation, they are just elements of the games reality and only have relevence according to that reality. there is also then the fact that most intelligent fantasy creatures such as goblins, vampires, orcs, intelligent malign aliens like the Daleks, though possessing human intelligence lack the choice to act other than in a malicious way. Doctor who indeed goes into quite a lot of detail with this with the Daleks, they are a race of aliens genetically bred and deliberately created by a psychotic geaneus to hate anything and everything that is not a Dalek. In a simialr sense, Trolls, Orcs and the other dark creatures in lord of the rings are direct adjuncts to the will of Sauron. They have no ability to act independently of his will and Tolkien even states that they went off and died without him, in fact Tolkien is very careful to draw a distinction between the various groups of men such as the Haradrim who were persuaded to fight on Sauron's side, and the creatures such as orcs which were directly motivated by Sauron. So, with various intelligent fantasy races there is a good arguemnet that they are just as much an environmental force as natural predators. Finally, as regards games where you actually kill humans, again as I said before intention is the difference. I wouldn't condone a game which basically had you do mindless slaughter or harming of innocent people for no reason, but games that simulate say a war agaisnt an oppressive enemy or fighting against a criminal gang you are just again participating in that environment, and since it is a simulated and entirely artificial it doesn't have a baring on what you would do in reality. This is a reason why in reality I am very anti war in the majority of circumstances, when to protest against the War in Iraq etc, but am quite content to play Gma tank commander. I don't hate! the enemy tanks in Gma tank commander or considder that they are full of soldiers with lives and desires and friends and families, because frankly speaking they're not! indeed, it'd be easy to imagine that all the tanks in the game were just robots. If however you really! asked me to blow up someone else with a tank, well I would refuse, and I at least like to think unless it was that one in a thousand occasion where there was! a good reason to kill someone, I'd refuse even if my life was in danger though of course having not been in the situation I've yet to find out if I have that kind of courage, --- and I probably don't. BEware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Well it is true that with games, books, films, or even anything else there are people who will always be stupid and take things the wrong way, though that is likely more a failing on the part of such people than on the part of the games, films etc. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
My reply at *** Dark wrote: I’m not sure on your correlation between killing people and rpgs, while it happens in some it is by no means a staple of the genre. Entombed for example has an entire dungeon of Goblins, Orcs, harpies, centaurs, elemental magic creatures, lizard men and the like, no humans or even demi human races such as elves and dwarves at all.. *** Actually, I never meant to say that i don’t like RpGs and strategies because they involve killing people. There are other reasons (mostly lack of instant adrenaline rush) that i don’t like them. Basically, if i want something cerebral, I read a book. But I can take a certain amount of killing if it isn’t gratuitous. Teresa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I think part of the issue here is the time in one's life at which they play a lot of the more violent sorts of games. I do believe it is different for someone whose brain is fully developed to play such games from someone in their teens playing such games. The reason being, that a teenager's brain is still developing in key ways. So I would posit that a younger player ought not to engage in a steady diet of violent games for long periods of time, as this then becomes a really big influence on their still-developing brain. Now it is also true that adults brains are still able to grow and change, so in that sense I would agree that if an adult really just spent all their time playing violent games that this would be concerning as well. Personally while I do like the more laser-tag like aspects of playing an FPS online with friends, I really do not like the violent aspects of many FPS style games. Just my thoughts… Thanks for a great discussion. Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, I have to admit that I love horror and a certain amount of violence. It gets the adrenaline flowing and scares the crud out of me, and i get a rush. If I still get a rush from it, and I play the same amount at the same level, I suppose I’m not getting terribly desensitized. :) Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: How do you define a monster, in theory? A monster is a dehumanised creature with characteristics of evil. A zombie is a legendary creature from which a human once died. When it comes to playing things to dehumanising a creature, it allows us to feel less tender-hearted towards that creature so we can destroy it. Myself, games that entail any form of violence I steer-clear unless they have puzzles (like the ones you stated). The point here is to have as minimal amount of violence. On 12/15/2013 11:18 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Dark, The idea that farmers needing to kill predators in order to preserve their livelihoods, is at all comparable to shooters is actually pretty offensive. The fact is that farmers protect their livestock out of necessity. Gamers have the choice of playing games. Game developers have the choice of what styles of game they will create and what types of actions and scenarios a player will need to experience in order to achieve accomplishments in such games. So I would agree that in many cases, the game absolutely can be a veiled vehicle for channeling violence. -Or adopting a violent stance in order to move through the game. This is quite frankly an orchestrated situation. Games, like films etc, may contain particular elements strictly for the fact that those elements sell. You, yourself consistently bring up the idea of corporate greed. Sometimes games are simply used as vehicles for cash-flow. Those vehicles sometimes contain elements merely to help sales of the game. these elements may be sex, violence or some other element which is merely meant to enhance or spur sales. Obviously this is not always true, but to deny it seems unrealistic to me. -Know what I mean?… So yes, it is absolutely possible that violent games are merely a veiled approach to channeling violence. Thanks for a great post. Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 15, 2013, at 5:41 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I disagree ulysses with your monster deffinition and with your idea that including different in game monsters is just a way for us to dress something up to vent our violent urges. in the past it was necessary to kill wolves and other predators as a matter of survival, heck there are still parts of britain where it is necessary for farmers to kill foxes and badgers in order for their animals to survive. That is part of that situation. A wolf or a lion or a crocadile is not evil in and of themselves, they obey their nature, unfortunately part of that conflicts with humans. The same goes with zombies, malevlolent ghosts like poltergheists, and monstrous beasts such as dinosaurs. When we play a game we are interacting with a new situation and environment and one we would not have in real life, be that controlling a bio dome on the moon, playing poker and betting thousands of dollars, or indeed traveling a zombi infested city. As such we participate in the nature of that environment, and if it includes zombiess mosnters etc, that's part of the world at that point and we're not going to survive in that world without doing what must be done the same way a poker player wouldn't survive without betting money, none are reflections of real world actions or situation, they are just elements of the games reality and only have relevence according to that reality. there is also then the fact that most intelligent fantasy creatures such as goblins, vampires, orcs, intelligent malign aliens like the Daleks, though possessing human intelligence lack the choice to act other than in a malicious way. Doctor who indeed goes into quite a lot of detail with this with the Daleks, they are a race of aliens genetically bred and deliberately created by a psychotic geaneus to hate anything and everything that is not a Dalek. In a simialr sense, Trolls, Orcs and the other dark creatures in lord of the rings are direct adjuncts to the will of Sauron. They have no ability to act independently of his will and Tolkien even states that they went off and died without him, in fact Tolkien is very careful to draw a distinction between the various groups of men such as the Haradrim who were persuaded to fight on Sauron's side, and the creatures such as orcs which were directly motivated by Sauron. So, with various intelligent fantasy races there is a good arguemnet that they are just as much an environmental force as natural predators. Finally, as regards games where you actually kill humans, again as I said before intention is the difference. I wouldn't condone a game which basically had you do mindless slaughter or harming of innocent people for no reason, but games that simulate say a war agaisnt an oppressive enemy or fighting against a criminal gang you are just again participating in that environment, and since it is a simulated and entirely artificial it doesn't have a baring on what you would do in reality. This is a reason why in reality I am very anti war in the majority of circumstances, when to protest against the War in Iraq etc, but am quite content to play Gma tank commander. I don't hate! the enemy tanks in Gma tank commander or considder that they are full of soldiers with lives and desires and friends and families, because frankly speaking they're not! indeed, it'd be easy to imagine that all the tanks in the game were
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
It's called neuropsychiatric when that happens, and many of the fast-occurring changes take place in one's frontal lobes, where thinking and decision-making are made. Though how we know that, or even how we can feel ourselves thinking as we develop is hard to say. It is hard for us to feel how our brain develops both naturally and with expanding amounts of information. I made a mistake of befriending a particular individual who played one style of game for a very long period of time that it literally was the cause of me having to terminate our friendship. On 12/15/2013 9:43 PM, Carla Quint wrote: I think part of the issue here is the time in one's life at which they play a lot of the more violent sorts of games. I do believe it is different for someone whose brain is fully developed to play such games from someone in their teens playing such games. The reason being, that a teenager's brain is still developing in key ways. So I would posit that a younger player ought not to engage in a steady diet of violent games for long periods of time, as this then becomes a really big influence on their still-developing brain. Now it is also true that adults brains are still able to grow and change, so in that sense I would agree that if an adult really just spent all their time playing violent games that this would be concerning as well. Personally while I do like the more laser-tag like aspects of playing an FPS online with friends, I really do not like the violent aspects of many FPS style games. Just my thoughts… Thanks for a great discussion. Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, I have to admit that I love horror and a certain amount of violence. It gets the adrenaline flowing and scares the crud out of me, and i get a rush. If I still get a rush from it, and I play the same amount at the same level, I suppose I’m not getting terribly desensitized. :) Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: How do you define a monster, in theory? A monster is a dehumanised creature with characteristics of evil. A zombie is a legendary creature from which a human once died. When it comes to playing things to dehumanising a creature, it allows us to feel less tender-hearted towards that creature so we can destroy it. Myself, games that entail any form of violence I steer-clear unless they have puzzles (like the ones you stated). The point here is to have as minimal amount of violence. On 12/15/2013 11:18 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: I don’t think games have to be about killing people. Killing monsters and zombies is fine. :) Or you could make it somewhat abstract and have to react to something in a split second. Change reaction comes to mind. It has some elements of both a puzzle and a shooter. I play that game quite a bit, too. Teresa Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ulysses Garcia birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote: I am not sure how the genre of games are classified, but I do know one thing for certain, there has been a lot of controversy about violence and stuff like that over games like this, and in my previous research I discovered that the long you are exposed to it, the more hard-wired it is going to be in your brain. Also, there is an upside to this. It allows you to increase and boost your decision-making mechanisms. On a television news cast I watched one day they discovered that people who played these kinds of games had shorter reacting time to real-life threats. In conclusion, violent games should not be played to any extreme that it will force your attitudes to change, but should be played at a level of moderation. On 12/15/2013 10:49 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: This topic has come up on another thread, and it jogged my memory of seeing an interesting article while looking at some other things. I find this fascinating. http://tinyurl.com/FirstPersonPsych Teresa Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. Feynman --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I have to agree with you on that. I could never play Alter Aeon or any of the role-playing games because they too, lacked adrenaline. At the same time, however, I find relaxing role-playing games fun to play, and a fair amount of violence is okay. On 12/15/2013 8:51 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote: My reply at *** Dark wrote: I’m not sure on your correlation between killing people and rpgs, while it happens in some it is by no means a staple of the genre. Entombed for example has an entire dungeon of Goblins, Orcs, harpies, centaurs, elemental magic creatures, lizard men and the like, no humans or even demi human races such as elves and dwarves at all.. *** Actually, I never meant to say that i don’t like RpGs and strategies because they involve killing people. There are other reasons (mostly lack of instant adrenaline rush) that i don’t like them. Basically, if i want something cerebral, I read a book. But I can take a certain amount of killing if it isn’t gratuitous. Teresa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Ah, fair enough if I slightly missed your point there Teresa, it's just that when you stated you didn't like games about killing other humans and you didn't play rpgs or stratogy I assumed the two reasons were connected. While I personally enjoy rpgs and such for the exploration, I do know what you mean, sometimes it's just fun, sometimes you just want something fast! indeed sometimes you just want something fast and quick with no strings attached. It's then that I pull out something like sixth sense on my Iphone or Q9 or one of the old Bsc titles for the pc. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Through my readings, it was explained that a monster is simply any creature who has turned evil and who was once not known as such. The reason why they call it IA monster is because it has an evil side. Once it sees itself referred to as one, it will literally believe in that. But, let's take that a little bit further. Suppose we had a creature with five arms, two fingers on each hand, tendrils, and four feet, had green slimy skin, etc etc. Would you call that creature a monster? Nope. A human would say that because it is not a look that we are accustomed to, but in their world, it might be their definition of fine beauty. So it's how you look at something that you feel is best for the situation. also, why are fantasy time frames set only in medieval and futuristic time, but not in renaissance, new age, or present time? Why does it have to be only two? I once asked that about a MUD and their answer was because it would be boring and predictable, yet the answer must be a little bit more detailed and someone must have figured that out when they began fantasising. On 12/15/2013 5:41 PM, dark wrote: I disagree ulysses with your monster deffinition and with your idea that including different in game monsters is just a way for us to dress something up to vent our violent urges. in the past it was necessary to kill wolves and other predators as a matter of survival, heck there are still parts of britain where it is necessary for farmers to kill foxes and badgers in order for their animals to survive. That is part of that situation. A wolf or a lion or a crocadile is not evil in and of themselves, they obey their nature, unfortunately part of that conflicts with humans. The same goes with zombies, malevlolent ghosts like poltergheists, and monstrous beasts such as dinosaurs. When we play a game we are interacting with a new situation and environment and one we would not have in real life, be that controlling a bio dome on the moon, playing poker and betting thousands of dollars, or indeed traveling a zombi infested city. As such we participate in the nature of that environment, and if it includes zombiess mosnters etc, that's part of the world at that point and we're not going to survive in that world without doing what must be done the same way a poker player wouldn't survive without betting money, none are reflections of real world actions or situation, they are just elements of the games reality and only have relevence according to that reality. there is also then the fact that most intelligent fantasy creatures such as goblins, vampires, orcs, intelligent malign aliens like the Daleks, though possessing human intelligence lack the choice to act other than in a malicious way. Doctor who indeed goes into quite a lot of detail with this with the Daleks, they are a race of aliens genetically bred and deliberately created by a psychotic geaneus to hate anything and everything that is not a Dalek. In a simialr sense, Trolls, Orcs and the other dark creatures in lord of the rings are direct adjuncts to the will of Sauron. They have no ability to act independently of his will and Tolkien even states that they went off and died without him, in fact Tolkien is very careful to draw a distinction between the various groups of men such as the Haradrim who were persuaded to fight on Sauron's side, and the creatures such as orcs which were directly motivated by Sauron. So, with various intelligent fantasy races there is a good arguemnet that they are just as much an environmental force as natural predators. Finally, as regards games where you actually kill humans, again as I said before intention is the difference. I wouldn't condone a game which basically had you do mindless slaughter or harming of innocent people for no reason, but games that simulate say a war agaisnt an oppressive enemy or fighting against a criminal gang you are just again participating in that environment, and since it is a simulated and entirely artificial it doesn't have a baring on what you would do in reality. This is a reason why in reality I am very anti war in the majority of circumstances, when to protest against the War in Iraq etc, but am quite content to play Gma tank commander. I don't hate! the enemy tanks in Gma tank commander or considder that they are full of soldiers with lives and desires and friends and families, because frankly speaking they're not! indeed, it'd be easy to imagine that all the tanks in the game were just robots. If however you really! asked me to blow up someone else with a tank, well I would refuse, and I at least like to think unless it was that one in a thousand occasion where there was! a good reason to kill someone, I'd refuse even if my life was in danger though of course having not been in the situation I've yet to find out if I have that kind of courage, --- and I probably don't. BEware the Grue! dark. ---
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
)Hi kara. I fully agree on coorporate greed and sales value and there are undoubtedly games where as I said the intention of the violence is a little hard to fathom. My comparrison of a farmer shooting predators however wasn't to say that that makes it okay to shoot people, even in a game, it was just to illustrate the fact that while in real life there are situations where the environment itself requires a more violent response, if your game as an art form has one of those situations, as a simulation of that world a violent response isn't unreasonable. A zombie survival game like swamp for example isn't unreasonable to expect the player to shoot zombies, since obviously if they don't in that make believe situation they will end up munched. Now you are correct that because games are artificial the designer has a lot of control over the environment and the factors involved. This is why I wouldn't condone games like grand theft auto or indeed certain varieties of war games that blatantly have the player engaging in battle against other national groups in some make believe future war, often with lots of gore involved. However equally I don't think a game like Swamp is really guilty of unnecessary violence. It's rather the same way if you read a good zombie appocoalypse novel people might kill zombies at some point, but won't treat it as humourous or as a game but as an act of survival. In a bad zombie appocalypse novel (and I indeed read one last year which did this), zombie killing is treated as a sport or a game. Of course, all this is a sliding scale, but my concern with being too down on game violence is that of sensorship, and also as I said in an earlier post of confusing commical amounts of blood with real pain. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Interesting points. In real life, I try to be open-minded about unconventional-seeming beings. In games, it's a given that monsters are a personification of evil, which makes them easier to kill. I like to read urban fantasy books, which are quite popular now. I don't want to stray off-topic, but yes, I definitely look for fantasy other than medieval stuff. Teresa Sent using Alpine Messaging system in Mac OS x Terminal On Sun, 15 Dec 2013, Ulysses Garcia wrote: Through my readings, it was explained that a monster is simply any creature who has turned evil and who was once not known as such. The reason why they call it IA monster is because it has an evil side. Once it sees itself referred to as one, it will literally believe in that. But, let's take that a little bit further. Suppose we had a creature with five arms, two fingers on each hand, tendrils, and four feet, had green slimy skin, etc etc. Would you call that creature a monster? Nope. A human would say that because it is not a look that we are accustomed to, but in their world, it might be their definition of fine beauty. So it's how you look at something that you feel is best for the situation. also, why are fantasy time frames set only in medieval and futuristic time, but not in renaissance, new age, or present time? Why does it have to be only two? I once asked that about a MUD and their answer was because it would be boring and predictable, yet the answer must be a little bit more detailed and someone must have figured that out when they began fantasising. On 12/15/2013 5:41 PM, dark wrote: I disagree ulysses with your monster deffinition and with your idea that including different in game monsters is just a way for us to dress something up to vent our violent urges. in the past it was necessary to kill wolves and other predators as a matter of survival, heck there are still parts of britain where it is necessary for farmers to kill foxes and badgers in order for their animals to survive. That is part of that situation. A wolf or a lion or a crocadile is not evil in and of themselves, they obey their nature, unfortunately part of that conflicts with humans. The same goes with zombies, malevlolent ghosts like poltergheists, and monstrous beasts such as dinosaurs. When we play a game we are interacting with a new situation and environment and one we would not have in real life, be that controlling a bio dome on the moon, playing poker and betting thousands of dollars, or indeed traveling a zombi infested city. As such we participate in the nature of that environment, and if it includes zombiess mosnters etc, that's part of the world at that point and we're not going to survive in that world without doing what must be done the same way a poker player wouldn't survive without betting money, none are reflections of real world actions or situation, they are just elements of the games reality and only have relevence according to that reality. there is also then the fact that most intelligent fantasy creatures such as goblins, vampires, orcs, intelligent malign aliens like the Daleks, though possessing human intelligence lack the choice to act other than in a malicious way. Doctor who indeed goes into quite a lot of detail with this with the Daleks, they are a race of aliens genetically bred and deliberately created by a psychotic geaneus to hate anything and everything that is not a Dalek. In a simialr sense, Trolls, Orcs and the other dark creatures in lord of the rings are direct adjuncts to the will of Sauron. They have no ability to act independently of his will and Tolkien even states that they went off and died without him, in fact Tolkien is very careful to draw a distinction between the various groups of men such as the Haradrim who were persuaded to fight on Sauron's side, and the creatures such as orcs which were directly motivated by Sauron. So, with various intelligent fantasy races there is a good arguemnet that they are just as much an environmental force as natural predators. Finally, as regards games where you actually kill humans, again as I said before intention is the difference. I wouldn't condone a game which basically had you do mindless slaughter or harming of innocent people for no reason, but games that simulate say a war agaisnt an oppressive enemy or fighting against a criminal gang you are just again participating in that environment, and since it is a simulated and entirely artificial it doesn't have a baring on what you would do in reality. This is a reason why in reality I am very anti war in the majority of circumstances, when to protest against the War in Iraq etc, but am quite content to play Gma tank commander. I don't hate! the enemy tanks in Gma tank commander or considder that they are full of soldiers with lives and desires and friends and families, because frankly speaking they're not! indeed, it'd be easy to imagine that
