RE: Just in case you're curious
No, that is not correct. The point of having most committers on the PMC is not to keep discussions out of google. The point of getting them on the PMC is so that the ASF can legally protect them, and so that they are legally empowered to participate in the decisions that govern the project. Would someone please explain what protection committers expect from ASF? And what legal empowerment is being granted? /Larry Rosen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
BIG SNIP Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: ... sensitive things should be on the PMC list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list. /end Geir What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are ashamed of it, don't do open source community. For a developer ... lets have some code in open, and the bad code we will just have in a encrypted jar. Is this open source? What do I mean by that: ASF used(?) to be Libreterian: If you want code to do something, commit the code to do it. ASF used(?) to be run by commiters. Now some are trying to develop rulling class, that is carving out roles for itself and rules to legislate iteligence and integrity for commiters, but does not committ itself?. What happend to emritius commiters? People who did not CVS a chunk of code in a while lose vote rights and their berucrat office. The people that are vocal on berucracy are same people I wonder where have they CVSed latelly. ASF is still very small, $100K in the bank. It's committer volunters and users that use it. No need for a rulling class, what's wrong with peers? Some officers rotated in for admin. If commiters don't get active to make it better, it will get worse. People I know are active in CVS (via CVS posts I see) have said very little relative to people I never see in CVS. Vic (Struts user) Ex: germaine issue, why no public vote of any kind on it ever, else link it for me. I think once germaine is addressed, things go back to normal. None of this : we are not smart enough to understand. This is the only issue that is secret, AFAIK. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sign those CLAs!
Members of the Jakarta Community : With the privilege of committership in the ASF comes the requirement that each committer sign a document called the Committer License Agreement, or CLA. The CLA is a legal agreement between you, the committer, and the ASF in which you state that the contributions that you make to the ASF in form of code, documentation, etc is your work that you are free to contribute, and that you are granting an unfettered copyright license to the ASF for that work. The purpose is to allow the ASF to be sure that the code that it offers to the world is, to the best of it's knowledge, free of questions about source and ownership. To that end, it is required that every committer in Jakarta has a signed CLA on file with the ASF. In the past, we have been negligent in ensuring this document was completed and filed, and wish to immediately rectify the situation for the ASF. This is a simple procedure, generally requiring just a few minutes of your time to fill out and mail or fax to the ASF administrative office. It will be greatly appreciated if this could be taken care of immediately. To check to see if you have a CLA on file, look here : http://www.apache.org/~jim/committers.html or http://www.apache.org/~jim/projects.html and find your name on either. If it is in italics, it means the CLA has been received and is on file. If not, please get one in. If you don't have a CLA on file, the CLA form can be found here : http://www.apache.org/licenses/cla.txt and a PDF version can be found here : http://www.apache.org/licenses/cla.pdf We will be sending out gentle reminders during the upcoming week or so for those that don't have a CLA on file, so the sooner the better as there will be less follow-up work for other Jakarta community members to do - after all, this is your responsibility and we're all volunteers. If there are any questions or problems, please bring them to this list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). If you have private concerns, because of employment or otherwise, feel free to post to the Official Jakarta State Sekrets List ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), send a private message to one or more of the knowledgeable people here on general@, post to the board list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - fair warning - readership is bigger than just the board - or to one of the board members or officers directly. This is an important subject, and people will give help if asked. Thanks for looking into this serious matter. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote: BIG SNIP Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: ... sensitive things should be on the PMC list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list. /end Geir What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are ashamed of it, don't do open source community. There are lots of things. Committer votes, for example, are considered a sensitive issue. Inter-personal disputes. If you would have been fair with your attribution, you would have included what I then said next, namely that I felt it sensitive because of the confusion that it sews. My hope was for us to get our act together before we approached the rest of the community, and do it as a group. IOW, simply to get a handle on how we approach the community to make things clear and non-confusing. For a developer ... lets have some code in open, and the bad code we will just have in a encrypted jar. Is this open source? What do I mean by that: ASF used(?) to be Libreterian: If you want code to do something, commit the code to do it. ASF used(?) to be run by commiters. Now some are trying to develop rulling class, that is carving out roles for itself and rules to legislate iteligence and integrity for commiters, but does not committ itself?. What happend to emritius commiters? People who did not CVS a chunk of code in a while lose vote rights and their berucrat office. The people that are vocal on berucracy are same people I wonder where have they CVSed latelly. Vic, if you've been paying ANY attention, you'd know that what we are trying to do is just the opposite - get *every* committer in Jakarta onto the PMC, *eliminating* this needless boundary. Please re-read. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 22, 2003, at 8:05 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:38:54 -0500 Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are ashamed of it, don't do open source community. There are lots of things. Committer votes, for example, are considered a sensitive issue. Inter-personal disputes. I agree. Also, I think [PROPOSAL] As it ever were mail was very reasonable. However, just one question came to my mind. Have The Committer Votes (I mean, [VOTE] in to elect new committer) to be taken place at Jakarta PMC list? ... This is very sensitive issue (maybe causes inter-personal dispute), i guess. Could you please explain more? Committer votes haven't taken place on the Jakarta PMC list. PMC member votes have, but that's a different thing. Here in Jakarta (as well as other projects, I assume), the sub-projects do committer votes in public. Some people outside of Jakarta feel that this is improper, and should be done in private to ensure that open discussion can happen in a way that doesn't hurt peoples feelings. I can see both sides of this - do it in public because it's a good pat on the back for a person to see fellow community members supporting him or her, but on the other hand, it would be a shame for people to be unable to say how they feel about a proposed committer and have that POV understood by others w/o possibly hurting the feelings of the person being voted on. I hope this is something we take up when we have this PMC issue sorted out. geir Thanks in advance. -- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. Vic, if you've been paying ANY attention, you'd know that what we are trying to do is just the opposite - get *every* committer in Jakarta onto the PMC, *eliminating* this needless boundary. Well said. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:04:26 -0500 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Dec 21, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: You go discus your private matters wherever you like, I'd like to talk about open source projects and am quite willing to do so in the open. And you know there's a difference. :) Not to me. -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:04:26 -0500 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Dec 21, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: You go discus your private matters wherever you like, I'd like to talk about open source projects and am quite willing to do so in the open. And you know there's a difference. :) What that we've discussed so far has been SSSooo sensitive? The recipe to the secret Jakarta Eggnog? I thought Jon took that with him... I think it is: Lots of expensive Bze Cheap store-bought eggnog There... Impeach me. I've divulged the state secrets. -Andy That's the point of getting as many people as are seriously interested in the subject on the PMC. Then all can participate, and if we discuss something sensitive (as defined by the discusser), it doesn't all have to be on Google. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
YES! -- And members, and board, and incubator, and Move it into the open. -Andy -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. From: Aaron Bannert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:11:02 -0800 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 09:58:53AM -0500, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Do you feel that we'll still be an open source organization in more than name if all decisions end up being made on private PMC lists not open to the public? Do you believe there are discussions happening on PMC lists that should be happening on public dev lists? -aaron - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
Well, saying please and asking nicely had no effect. -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. From: Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: mvdb.com Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 22 Dec 2003 01:53:20 +0100 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious Sorry to hear you didn't understand my mail at all If that is the way a PMC member communicates, I can never be part of that PMC. Mvgr, Martin On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 23:10, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Now the conversation is here, that is the solution. You're welcome. -Andy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
I think the problem isn't the private list, on which we will continue to do work, such as voting, but follow up. geir Heads up, FYI, except where I feel the situation absolutely mandates it, I will be voting/discussing here. While I'm not sure I agree, out of courtesy, I will vote privately for: * PMC nominations/discussion * legally precarious issues * things too likely to cause me to get slashdotted. I favor openness, but the peanut gallery isn't helpful. Pointedly, I will not discuss the organization, structure, software, etc. of Jakarta on [EMAIL PROTECTED] I will discuss it here. This is my personal choice. I choose to work in the open. I choose to be googled. I volunteered for it in fact. -Andy -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 07:35:45 -0500 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Dec 21, 2003, at 3:51 AM, Santiago Gala wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El domingo, 21 dici, 2003, a las 02:35 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell escribió: On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Santiago Gala wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El jueves, 18 dici, 2003, a las 15:52 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell escribió: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/whoweare.html lists the PMC members up until the previous addition of 20 or so. That list has to go to the board etc and I plan to add them to the list as soon as I see them appear on the board's list [in the committers/ cvs module]. I have just discovered I'm listed as PMC member in the web page. When was I appointed? is there no notification to elected people? Ack. Sorry. Completely my mistake. I added you along with three others, thinking you'd been part of a batch vote with them. Instead your vote was separate one. This is the kind of problems that happen with private lists. I think the problem isn't the private list, on which we will continue to do work, such as voting, but follow up. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
Vic, if you've been paying ANY attention, you'd know that what we are trying to do is just the opposite - get *every* committer in Jakarta onto the PMC, *eliminating* this needless boundary. While closing out everyone else. Like those who are not yet committers. -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:38:54 -0500 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote: BIG SNIP Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: ... sensitive things should be on the PMC list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list. /end Geir What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are ashamed of it, don't do open source community. There are lots of things. Committer votes, for example, are considered a sensitive issue. Inter-personal disputes. If you would have been fair with your attribution, you would have included what I then said next, namely that I felt it sensitive because of the confusion that it sews. My hope was for us to get our act together before we approached the rest of the community, and do it as a group. IOW, simply to get a handle on how we approach the community to make things clear and non-confusing. For a developer ... lets have some code in open, and the bad code we will just have in a encrypted jar. Is this open source? What do I mean by that: ASF used(?) to be Libreterian: If you want code to do something, commit the code to do it. ASF used(?) to be run by commiters. Now some are trying to develop rulling class, that is carving out roles for itself and rules to legislate iteligence and integrity for commiters, but does not committ itself?. What happend to emritius commiters? People who did not CVS a chunk of code in a while lose vote rights and their berucrat office. The people that are vocal on berucracy are same people I wonder where have they CVSed latelly. Vic, if you've been paying ANY attention, you'd know that what we are trying to do is just the opposite - get *every* committer in Jakarta onto the PMC, *eliminating* this needless boundary. Please re-read. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
Andy wrote: FYI, except where I feel the situation absolutely mandates it, I will be voting/discussing here. snip I choose to work in the open. I choose to be googled. I volunteered for it in fact. Well said, I agree with this. But why be so confrontational about it? After all in the tradition of itch scratching you took issue with the private discussions and did something, no one is questioning that it was the right outcome and that we were being half-assed about it, but what is this argument about now? d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
I realize that arguing with you on this will have no effect, but I want to keep working to extinguish the meme you keep trying to plant. IIRC, the thread in play at the time was my note to ask the opinion of all PMC members re the CLA signing, to make sure that it was a clear message we all wanted to go out with. IRRC, you never even responded to it. Further, IIRC, there was broad consensus that things should be public (I think it was Peter's first nudge), and we were working that direction. geir On Dec 21, 2003, at 11:04 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Well, saying please and asking nicely had no effect. -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. From: Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: mvdb.com Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 22 Dec 2003 01:53:20 +0100 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious Sorry to hear you didn't understand my mail at all If that is the way a PMC member communicates, I can never be part of that PMC. Mvgr, Martin On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 23:10, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Now the conversation is here, that is the solution. You're welcome. -Andy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
While closing out everyone else. Like those who are not yet committers. I certainly think that increasing the size of the PMC makes it easier for things to get discussed on the PMC list, but if people care (and you do for one) about visibility the very nature of things mean that it won't happen for long before someone starts to get obstreperous. I know from the past that you'd favour a fully open process, but we don't have that. I don't think this should _necessarily_ be a social experiment, in open management, this isn't a political project its about software. d. -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:38:54 -0500 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote: BIG SNIP Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: ... sensitive things should be on the PMC list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list. /end Geir What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are ashamed of it, don't do open source community. There are lots of things. Committer votes, for example, are considered a sensitive issue. Inter-personal disputes. If you would have been fair with your attribution, you would have included what I then said next, namely that I felt it sensitive because of the confusion that it sews. My hope was for us to get our act together before we approached the rest of the community, and do it as a group. IOW, simply to get a handle on how we approach the community to make things clear and non-confusing. For a developer ... lets have some code in open, and the bad code we will just have in a encrypted jar. Is this open source? What do I mean by that: ASF used(?) to be Libreterian: If you want code to do something, commit the code to do it. ASF used(?) to be run by commiters. Now some are trying to develop rulling class, that is carving out roles for itself and rules to legislate iteligence and integrity for commiters, but does not committ itself?. What happend to emritius commiters? People who did not CVS a chunk of code in a while lose vote rights and their berucrat office. The people that are vocal on berucracy are same people I wonder where have they CVSed latelly. Vic, if you've been paying ANY attention, you'd know that what we are trying to do is just the opposite - get *every* committer in Jakarta onto the PMC, *eliminating* this needless boundary. Please re-read. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
You are free to do what you want. Is this then about personal google hitcount? On Dec 21, 2003, at 11:06 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: I think the problem isn't the private list, on which we will continue to do work, such as voting, but follow up. geir Heads up, FYI, except where I feel the situation absolutely mandates it, I will be voting/discussing here. While I'm not sure I agree, out of courtesy, I will vote privately for: * PMC nominations/discussion * legally precarious issues * things too likely to cause me to get slashdotted. I favor openness, but the peanut gallery isn't helpful. Pointedly, I will not discuss the organization, structure, software, etc. of Jakarta on [EMAIL PROTECTED] I will discuss it here. This is my personal choice. I choose to work in the open. I choose to be googled. I volunteered for it in fact. -Andy -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 07:35:45 -0500 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Dec 21, 2003, at 3:51 AM, Santiago Gala wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El domingo, 21 dici, 2003, a las 02:35 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell escribió: On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Santiago Gala wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El jueves, 18 dici, 2003, a las 15:52 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell escribió: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/whoweare.html lists the PMC members up until the previous addition of 20 or so. That list has to go to the board etc and I plan to add them to the list as soon as I see them appear on the board's list [in the committers/ cvs module]. I have just discovered I'm listed as PMC member in the web page. When was I appointed? is there no notification to elected people? Ack. Sorry. Completely my mistake. I added you along with three others, thinking you'd been part of a batch vote with them. Instead your vote was separate one. This is the kind of problems that happen with private lists. I think the problem isn't the private list, on which we will continue to do work, such as voting, but follow up. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 22, 2003, at 10:31 AM, Danny Angus wrote: While closing out everyone else. Like those who are not yet committers. I certainly think that increasing the size of the PMC makes it easier for things to get discussed on the PMC list, but if people care (and you do for one) about visibility the very nature of things mean that it won't happen for long before someone starts to get obstreperous. Just to save everyone the trip to dictionary.com : ob·strep·er·ous Pronunciation Key (b-str p r- s, b-) adj. 1. Noisily and stubbornly defiant. 2. Aggressively boisterous. I know from the past that you'd favour a fully open process, but we don't have that. I don't think this should _necessarily_ be a social experiment, in open management, this isn't a political project its about software. No one wants things unnecessarily private. The less the better. The less organizational conversation the better - more tech, more community. This stuff is tiring :) geir d. -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:38:54 -0500 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote: BIG SNIP Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: ... sensitive things should be on the PMC list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list. /end Geir What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are ashamed of it, don't do open source community. There are lots of things. Committer votes, for example, are considered a sensitive issue. Inter-personal disputes. If you would have been fair with your attribution, you would have included what I then said next, namely that I felt it sensitive because of the confusion that it sews. My hope was for us to get our act together before we approached the rest of the community, and do it as a group. IOW, simply to get a handle on how we approach the community to make things clear and non-confusing. For a developer ... lets have some code in open, and the bad code we will just have in a encrypted jar. Is this open source? What do I mean by that: ASF used(?) to be Libreterian: If you want code to do something, commit the code to do it. ASF used(?) to be run by commiters. Now some are trying to develop rulling class, that is carving out roles for itself and rules to legislate iteligence and integrity for commiters, but does not committ itself?. What happend to emritius commiters? People who did not CVS a chunk of code in a while lose vote rights and their berucrat office. The people that are vocal on berucracy are same people I wonder where have they CVSed latelly. Vic, if you've been paying ANY attention, you'd know that what we are trying to do is just the opposite - get *every* committer in Jakarta onto the PMC, *eliminating* this needless boundary. Please re-read. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited.
[Chair Nominations] Position statements
I invite each candidate to create a new subject thread with their position statement. I realize that this has been stated across many threads, and it would be nice to see in a single thread, devoted to each candidates: with maybe a subject such as: [Position: PMC Chair Candidate name]. A new thread for each candidate, since this is likely to result in allot of back and forth banter. A position statement would help me clarify my understanding of what each Candidate sees as their Mandate, both from the board and Jakarta. -Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs commit: jakarta-site2/docs .htaccess
ceki2003/12/22 11:24:39 Modified:docs .htaccess Log: Added a redirection from log4j/ to logging.apache.org/log4j PR: Obtained from: Submitted by: Reviewed by: Revision ChangesPath 1.13 +3 -0 jakarta-site2/docs/.htaccess Index: .htaccess === RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-site2/docs/.htaccess,v retrieving revision 1.12 retrieving revision 1.13 diff -u -r1.12 -r1.13 --- .htaccess 27 Sep 2003 07:48:35 - 1.12 +++ .htaccess 22 Dec 2003 19:24:39 - 1.13 @@ -35,6 +35,9 @@ RedirectMatch Permanent /turbine/maven(.*) http://maven.apache.org$1 Redirect Permanent /james http://james.apache.org + +Redirect Permanent /log4j http://logging.apache.org/log4j + RedirectMatch Permanent /builds/jakarta-james/latest http://cvs.apache.org/builds/james-server/test-build/ RedirectMatch Permanent /builds/jakarta-james/nightly http://cvs.apache.org/builds/james-server/ RedirectMatch Permanent /builds/jakarta-james http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/james - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:12:02 -0500 Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Here in Jakarta (as well as other projects, I assume), the sub-projects do committer votes in public. Some people outside of Jakarta feel that this is improper, and should be done in private to ensure that open discussion can happen in a way that doesn't hurt peoples feelings. Yes, HTTP Server Project / APR Project folks often feel that it is improper, it seems. (I am not a HTTPD guy ;-) I've heard such opinions on other lists before. Well, I think it that vote jakartan-way (to vote new committers in) is reasonable as well as the way other (single projects -- which do not have many subprojects under their umbrella) projects had chosen is. Only one concern. Maybe Jakarta has many *zombie* committers. I hope current (jakartan) voting rule hadn't affected to the *inflated zombies* phenomena. To eliminate *zombie* committers would be one of the critical issues for Jakarta PMC, I imagine. (This is also board members' concern, I imagine) Anyways, I think Jakarta can have Jakartan-Way. Good luck, folks. (And thanks) Sincerely, -- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Just in case you're curious
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Here in Jakarta (as well as other projects, I assume), the sub-projects do committer votes in public. Some people outside of Jakarta feel that this is improper, and should be done in private to ensure that open discussion can happen in a way that doesn't hurt peoples feelings. Well, I think it that vote jakartan-way (to vote new committers in) is reasonable as well as the way other (single projects -- which do not have many subprojects under their umbrella) projects had chosen is. There are good reasons for the guidelines. One of the other Apache projects recently had a situtation where someone proposed a new Committer in public, there was a negative reaction from some people, and it created an unfortunate situation in public. There is no reason to either subject anyone to that, or leave a public record of it. Once the PMC situation is squared away by any of a few approaches, there should be no reason to hold Committer or PMC Member votes in public. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:10:27 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I realize that arguing with you on this will have no effect, but I want to keep working to extinguish the meme you keep trying to plant. +1, Andrew seems to have boundless energy in this regard ;-) ! It seems that he/she/it is a *winter* person ;-) (Maybe, reincarnation of yeti) -- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] As it ever were
I don't think that crossposting would be good keep it here On Dec 22, 2003, at 4:52 PM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Hello, folks. I am a moderator of three -dev lists in jakarta. What should I do next? Forwardin' this Pro-forma to each -dev lists? T.I.A. -- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:07:26 -0500 (Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] As it ever were) Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: This is what I proposed some weeks ago. I think you would serve the community well if you also posted a summary of pros and cons that we had discussed. On Dec 21, 2003, at 6:14 PM, Ted Husted wrote: Re: Proposal to grandfather Active Committers to Jakarta subprojects as PMC Members. As it stands, most Jakarta committers have assumed that they already have the rights, privileges, and responsibilities granted PMC members. (Mainly because it was written that way in the Jakarta bylaws). When all these committers were elected, it was with the understanding they had binding votes and oversight responsibility, as stated by the original Jakarta bylaws. It could be said that we have been electing PMC members, rather than only committers, all along, without realizing it. Following our original bylaws and practices, there is no such thing as a committer without the rights and responsibilities of PMC membership. Accordingly, a stipulation of becoming (or remaining) a committer to a Jakarta subproject can said to be PMC membership, as it is described by the ASF bylaws. To complete the process we've already begun, I suggest a [VOTE] be brought on each [EMAIL PROTECTED] list to nominate the list of its active committers to the PMC. This vote will also serve as notice to committers who wish to opt-out. To bootstrap the process, the current moderator of each DEV list can be asked to bring the vote and report the result. If necessary, a new moderator can be installed by the Chair. The moderator of each dev list will also act as the PMC steward for the subproject. The list moderator is suggested since that individual is already suppose to be monitoring the list where this activity occurs. The steward will have the responsibility of immediately reporting any new committers/PMC members elected to a subproject, so that they can be affirmed by the chair and notice given the board. All PMC members (which is to say all active committers to jakarta-* CVS repositories) will be subscribed to the PMC list, which will be a required list for PMC membership, like [EMAIL PROTECTED] The PMC business for each subproject will continue to take place on its own dev list. The steward for each project will report to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list the status of his or her subproject, covering such points as: * What code releases have been made? * Legal issues: * Cross-project issues: * Any problems with committers, members, etc? * Plans and expectations for the next period? The chair can then summarize these reports for presentation to the board. Effectively, each dev list becomes a sub-committee of the PMC. (Divide and conquer.) The list moderator/steward becomes the subcommittee's secretary, with the additional responsibility of summarizing the result of our ongoing meetings. As appropriate, the steward or any PMC member can bring up oversight issues to the PMC list. Routine matters, such as releases, can be approved by the PMC members who are committers to a given subproject. So long as the usual 3+ quorum is met, there would be no reason to bring routine votes before the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. Of course, the result would be tabulated on the steward's report, which *is* published to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. -Ted. Pro-forma [VOTE] It has come to our attention that the Committers to a Jakarta subproject must also be members of the Jakarta Project Management Committee to have binding votes. To complete the legal process, the current PMC is asking each subproject to nominate it's active committers to the PMC. Since we have never supported the idea of non-voting committers at Jakarta, and only PMC members have binding votes, if a committer is unwilling to serve on the Jakarta PMC, we will be unable to continue to extend write access to any jakarta-* CVS to that individual. Each PMC member will also be subscribed to the Jakarta PMC list. *However, all subproject business can continue to occur on this DEV list as always!* In the future, we anticipate that the PMC list will be very low-volume. (Really, we do!) The only change is that the owner of the DEV list must also serve as the PMC steward for the subproject. The steward must submit monthly status reports for the project and immediately report any new Committers to the PMC list. But, other than that, it will be business as usual. Accordingly, we ask that the Committers to this subproject nominate the following individuals to the Jakarta PMC. Please check all that apply. [ ] $committer Any committer who wishes to opt-out may notify the Jakarta chair
Re: Just in case you're curious
Noel J. Bergman wrote: Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Here in Jakarta (as well as other projects, I assume), the sub-projects do committer votes in public. Some people outside of Jakarta feel that this is improper, and should be done in private to ensure that open discussion can happen in a way that doesn't hurt peoples feelings. Well, I think it that vote jakartan-way (to vote new committers in) is reasonable as well as the way other (single projects -- which do not have many subprojects under their umbrella) projects had chosen is. Once the PMC situation is squared away by any of a few approaches, there should be no reason to hold Committer or PMC Member votes in public. Makes sense. Thanks. I'd subscribed to all the -dev lists and downloaded all the archive messages from jakarta.apache.org/mail/**. I found it that if PMC situation would be squared away, PMC list could take over the place for committer votes, too. I had a stats of the contributors' messages and sometimes felt I do want to vote him/her in to XX subproject if I were a committer of this (sub)project where I am not a committer nor a PMC Member. (So, I often did non-binding votes -- +1 to excellent persons ... Right? Adam @ gump) I think you folks can choose the appropriate persons for the jakarta-committership, granted you won't hold Committer votes in public. -- I remember that one of the ASF members has already invented nice voting machine program @ minotaur (wrapper program for qmail, if i remember correctly) -- Maybe you/we will be able to make use of it (Then, PMC list's traffic won't be increased). Hope this helps. Cheers, -- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf of the organization. Further is it seems that the ASF does not believe this protection extends to those not in the PMC (this is my personal logical conclusion based on statements around why someone would like to join a PMC). This protection is usually referenced when people talk about IP, and I'm not sure if it extends to other areas. I'm not aware of an official statement on this, but it would be nice to have one. Happy Holidays -dain /* * Dain Sundstrom * Partner * Core Developers Network */ On Dec 21, 2003, at 9:08 PM, Lawrence E. Rosen wrote: No, that is not correct. The point of having most committers on the PMC is not to keep discussions out of google. The point of getting them on the PMC is so that the ASF can legally protect them, and so that they are legally empowered to participate in the decisions that govern the project. Would someone please explain what protection committers expect from ASF? And what legal empowerment is being granted? /Larry Rosen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf of the organization. Further is it seems that the ASF does not believe this protection extends to those not in the PMC (this is my personal logical conclusion based on statements around why someone would like to join a PMC). This protection is usually referenced when people talk about IP, and I'm not sure if it extends to other areas. I'm not aware of an official statement on this, but it would be nice to have one. I did respond. As I understand it, here is no protection for PMC members except for the chair, if he or she was acting on behalf of the corporation in good faith. And if you don't know Larry, he's a well-known attorney specializing in OSS matters. geir Happy Holidays -dain /* * Dain Sundstrom * Partner * Core Developers Network */ On Dec 21, 2003, at 9:08 PM, Lawrence E. Rosen wrote: No, that is not correct. The point of having most committers on the PMC is not to keep discussions out of google. The point of getting them on the PMC is so that the ASF can legally protect them, and so that they are legally empowered to participate in the decisions that govern the project. Would someone please explain what protection committers expect from ASF? And what legal empowerment is being granted? /Larry Rosen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 22, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf of the organization. Further is it seems that the ASF does not believe this protection extends to those not in the PMC (this is my personal logical conclusion based on statements around why someone would like to join a PMC). This protection is usually referenced when people talk about IP, and I'm not sure if it extends to other areas. I'm not aware of an official statement on this, but it would be nice to have one. I did respond. As I understand it, here is no protection for PMC members except for the chair, if he or she was acting on behalf of the corporation in good faith. Sorry missed your reply. From what I have seen there are vastly differing opinions on this matter (from ranking people in ASF). Anyway, it would be nice to see something official on this matter, but it is a legal matter and therefore unlikely to happen (at least anytime soon ;) And if you don't know Larry, he's a well-known attorney specializing in OSS matters. I know Larry. He used to a company I used to do business with. -dain - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:07 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf of the organization. Further is it seems that the ASF does not believe this protection extends to those not in the PMC (this is my personal logical conclusion based on statements around why someone would like to join a PMC). This protection is usually referenced when people talk about IP, and I'm not sure if it extends to other areas. I'm not aware of an official statement on this, but it would be nice to have one. I did respond. As I understand it, here is no protection for PMC members except for the chair, if he or she was acting on behalf of the corporation in good faith. Sorry missed your reply. From what I have seen there are vastly differing opinions on this matter (from ranking people in ASF). Anyway, it would be nice to see something official on this matter, but it is a legal matter and therefore unlikely to happen (at least anytime soon ;) Feel free to send them to me. I'm interested. I'll be happy to report back a summary or correction. And if you don't know Larry, he's a well-known attorney specializing in OSS matters. I know Larry. He used to a company I used to do business with. Ah Sorry. :) geir -dain - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:13 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:07 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf of the organization. Further is it seems that the ASF does not believe this protection extends to those not in the PMC (this is my personal logical conclusion based on statements around why someone would like to join a PMC). This protection is usually referenced when people talk about IP, and I'm not sure if it extends to other areas. I'm not aware of an official statement on this, but it would be nice to have one. I did respond. As I understand it, here is no protection for PMC members except for the chair, if he or she was acting on behalf of the corporation in good faith. Sorry missed your reply. From what I have seen there are vastly differing opinions on this matter (from ranking people in ASF). Anyway, it would be nice to see something official on this matter, but it is a legal matter and therefore unlikely to happen (at least anytime soon ;) Feel free to send them to me. I'm interested. I'll be happy to report back a summary or correction. I doubt the ASF wants me to make declarations about what legal protections they provide to PMC members. Even if they did want me to come up with a straw man, I wouldn't even know where to start. And if you don't know Larry, he's a well-known attorney specializing in OSS matters. I know Larry. He used to a company I used to do business with. Ah Sorry. :) AHHH... can't type today. Meant to write He use to *represent* a company... -dain - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:04:26 -0500 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Dec 21, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: You go discus your private matters wherever you like, I'd like to talk about open source projects and am quite willing to do so in the open. And you know there's a difference. :) Not to me. Wow ... and you say just don't get the difference! ROTFL Stephen. -- Stephen J. McConnell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] || | Magic by Merlin| | Production by Avalon | || | http://avalon.apache.org/merlin| | http://dpml.net/ | || - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
Dain Sundstrom wrote: Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf of the organization. Further is it seems that the ASF does not believe this protection extends to those not in the PMC (this is my personal logical conclusion based on statements around why someone would like to join a PMC). This protection is usually referenced when people talk about IP, and I'm not sure if it extends to other areas. This conflicts with my own understanding of the situation. I am a member of the Avalon PMC but there is nothing that I am aware of that gives me any protection at all. In fact the recent emails have suggested there is a distinction between the opinion of the chair (recognized) and the opinion of the PMC (not recognized). Basically the PMC can say what it wants - but that does not count at the level of the board. What matters is what the chair states (even if the chair states things that contradict PMC members or PMC collective opinion). I''m also interested in a clarification of the function and purpose of a PMC relative to the Board. Stephen. -- Stephen J. McConnell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] || | Magic by Merlin| | Production by Avalon | || | http://avalon.apache.org/merlin| | http://dpml.net/ | || - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Chair Nominations] Position statements
Before doing this, I'd like to see a final list of nominations on PMC. Then I'd like to see if they are accepted, as not all of them were self-nominations, before going to the General list. Hen On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I invite each candidate to create a new subject thread with their position statement. I realize that this has been stated across many threads, and it would be nice to see in a single thread, devoted to each candidates: with maybe a subject such as: [Position: PMC Chair Candidate name]. A new thread for each candidate, since this is likely to result in allot of back and forth banter. A position statement would help me clarify my understanding of what each Candidate sees as their Mandate, both from the board and Jakarta. -Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Just in case you're curious
Lawrence E. Rosen asked: Would someone please explain what protection committers expect from ASF? And what legal empowerment is being granted? I doubt that very many people can answer that question with any authority at all. Certainly not me. The most that I can do for you is provide a couple public references: http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED] .orgmsgNo=2642 http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED] .orgmsgNo=2711 Hope that helps. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
It seems that he/she/it is a *winter* person ;-) (Maybe, reincarnation of yeti) Andrew means Strong and Manly. Fairly gender specific. http://www.andythenamebender.com/name-meanings/Andrew.htm I like this: Origin: Shakespearean Meaning: 'Twelfth Night', also called 'What You Will' Sir Andrew Aguecheek. Though I like to think of myself more as Feste albeit my girth gives more truth to the former. ;-) -Andy -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. From: Tetsuya Kitahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: The Apache Software Foundation, Committer Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 07:16:44 +0900 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:10:27 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I realize that arguing with you on this will have no effect, but I want to keep working to extinguish the meme you keep trying to plant. +1, Andrew seems to have boundless energy in this regard ;-) ! It seems that he/she/it is a *winter* person ;-) (Maybe, reincarnation of yeti) -- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
