Re: [h-cost] Academic Dress
That wasn't me, but I did make my own robes. The modern master's robes are based on 16th-century loose gowns with hanging sleeves, so that's what I made (along with a cloth flat cap). My area of study is 16th-century clothing, so it seemed appropriate, and people always compliment me on it at graduation. I'm a professor, so I get to wear it once or twice a year. I don't have any photos that I can post, unfortunately. Melanie Schuessler On Jul 24, 2011, at 3:03 PM, Rickard, Patty wrote: Was'/t there someone on this list who made their own medieval academic gown (in addition to defending their dissertation)and sent a photo journal of the process? Patty ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Academic Dress
Mine are lightweight wool lined with habotai silk, and they're usually quite comfortable here in Michigan. Melanie On Jul 25, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Nordtorp-Madson, Michelle A. wrote: Good plan for linen. I have a set that is bullet-proof polyester and it is like a sweat cabinet when the weather is warm. These days, they are all made of hideous cloth, so I shall be envying you. On 7/25/11 11:30 AM, Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com wrote: On 7/25/2011 9:45 AM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: That wasn't me, but I did make my own robes. The modern master's robes are based on 16th-century loose gowns with hanging sleeves, so that's what I made (along with a cloth flat cap). My area of study is 16th-century clothing, so it seemed appropriate, and people always compliment me on it at graduation. I'm a professor, so I get to wear it once or twice a year. I don't have any photos that I can post, unfortunately. nods. And I'm in south Georgia. I have a bolt of black linen ready to go. I'll wear mine (probably the damn plastic bag) on the 14th, again in December, and again in May. I'm making a Modern Robe, and I want to make a period robe as well. Susan -- Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Academic Dress
I used cotton velveteen. Melanie On Jul 25, 2011, at 3:20 PM, Susan Farmer wrote: On 7/25/2011 1:02 PM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: Mine are lightweight wool lined with habotai silk, and they're usually quite comfortable here in Michigan. Melanie, what did you use for your velvet trim? I'm wondering about cannabalizing my plastic robe for it . Susan -- Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 16th and 17th Century Portraits
Hello all, Weiss Gallery in London specializes in historic portraiture, and to celebrate their 25th anniversary, they have put a gorgeous commemorative publication online. It includes some fabulous 16th and 17th century portraits (some of which also appear in their paper catalogs) and has closeups of some of them. You can look at it online, and you can also download the whole thing as a PDF. For free. http://www.weissgallery.com/catalogue/weiss25years.htm Enjoy! Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] coifs
Hi Bjarne, There are very few images of upper-class ladies wearing coifs, which is to say that they may have been more commonly worn at home. However, here's one from the 1560s: http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/KatherineGrey.jpg and another from 1567: http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Theophila.jpg The triangle in the front is a forehead cloth worn with the point forward over the coif. Some people have found images that they think are forehead cloths worn under coifs or forehead cloths worn over coifs with the point backward. These are mostly on lower-class women. There are some extant forehead cloths if you're interested. Cheers, Melanie Schuessler On May 23, 2011, at 4:58 PM, Leif og Bjarne Drews wrote: May i ask about the coifs. The coifs seen in Arnolds books and manny other places with blackwork are mostly as late as cirka 1600. How early did they start to use these? Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] coifs
Hi Bjarne, That's really interesting! Can you send links to some of those images? Melanie On May 24, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Leif og Bjarne Drews wrote: Thankyou Melanie, The majority of danish portraits shows coifs mostly embroidered with pearls, hats are seen, but rarely. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] coifs
Fascinating! Thanks! Melanie On May 24, 2011, at 6:14 PM, Leif og Bjarne Drews wrote: Dear Melanie, Yes the link is here: http://www.livinghistory.dk/ Its Dorothy Jones who made this with her friend Camilla Dahl. Its a little difficult to navigate there, but if you schroll down the list to the left, you will find an english translation at the bottom. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: corset and breast augmentation surgery
I've put an Elizabethan corset on an augmented figure. Once the person is healed from the surgery, there shouldn't be a problem. What you will discover, however, is that fake breasts don't compress as much as real breasts. They're much firmer and tend to retain their original shape rather than creating the lifted shelf that Elizabethan corsets often produce. It's difficult to get the front profile as flat as is possible with real breasts as well. If you're doing a Victorian corset, it should be much less of an issue due to the curvy design. If you're doing an 18th-century corset, you may have some difficulty creating a period effect, but the 18th-century aesthetic allows for a somewhat curved profile, and the lifted cleavage is more like that created by a modern push-up bra and less like the Elizabethan, so it should work well enough. Good luck, Melanie Schuessler On May 20, 2011, at 8:57 AM, Kay Shelton wrote: I'm hoping someone here will know. A friend to whom I've promised a corset is having breast augmentation surgery: a boob job. How will this affect her wearing a corset? Is it a matter of days, weeks, years? Can I fit her if she doesn't wear it long? She's planning on asking the doctor, but I fear the doctor may not have experience with costuming. Thank you for any advice you can give. Kay ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] printed reproduction of early 15th-century fabric
A textile company in Sweden has recreated the fabric of the extant golden gown of Queen Margareta and also a somewhat speculative reproduction of the gown itself. The fabric has a printed rather than woven design and will be available in silk and in cotton. Details here: http://www.durantextiles.com/newsletter/documents/news_3be_10.asp Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Asynchronous fashion photography
On Jan 6, 2010, at 4:01 AM, Kate Bunting wrote: Melanie Schuessler wrote: http://www.history.org/Foundation/journal/Holiday06/fashion_show/ fashionshow.html Great photos! Why is the girl in her underwear wearing black lipstick, though? Not a clue--I didn't even notice! I was too busy looking at the embroidery on various items and the lovely drape of the fabrics. That zoom feature is great! Melanie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Asynchronous Fashion Photography
Apologies if this has been posted before, but I don't remember seeing it here. This is a photo shoot of some of the interpreters from Colonial Williamsburg: http://www.history.org/Foundation/journal/Holiday06/fashion_show/ fashionshow.html Enjoy, Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] vintage pattern CDs
Yes. I'd love to have them, but they're not Mac-compatible last I heard. Melanie Schuessler On Nov 13, 2009, at 11:06 AM, landofoz wrote: Are any of you familiar with CoPA vintage patterns? Apparently it's a set of CDs and a subscription service on-line. It's supposed to encompass 1868 to 1968 Denise B Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] paintings of interest
Hello all, There are some lovely paintings with historic clothing in them online at Sotheby's: http://catalogue.sothebys.com/auctions/L09635/auction.html They include a scene by a Cranach follower, a Hilliard miniature of James I of Scotland, and several nummy 17th and 18th-century portraits. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Holkeboer
Yes, they are the same person. Katie retired from the job I now hold, and her second husband is my colleague Gary Evans. Melanie Schuessler Eastern Michigan University On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:10 AM, Kate Bunting wrote: Laurie Taylor wrote: Also, does anyone know if there's a connection between Katherine Strand-Evans and Katherine Strand Holkeboer? Just curious. According to the Library of Congress Authority File, they are the same person. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] hose with seams
If she wants actual nylons, try here: http://vickisnylons.com/Full_Fash/fullfash.htm If she wants modern hose, check out Victoria's Secret. http:// tinyurl.com/mk9abr Or she can search seamed hose on Google--I got lots of sites selling them like this one http://tinyurl.com/49br2b Melanie Schuessler On Aug 18, 2009, at 10:58 PM, Marjorie Wilser wrote: Does anybody know a source for hose, or even knee-highs, with back seams? A friend needs them for a historical presentation. Thanks! == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait
I wouldn't use silk chiffon. It has no body at all and will lay limp rather than in the soft ruffles shown, and silk organza is (as you say) too stiff. You'd be better off with a nice sheer cotton--back it with something more opaque for the body and sleeves. That way you'll get the airy feeling shown in the portrait. Check out some of the specialty shops that carry heirloom sewing fabrics for things like christening gowns if you can't find something suitable at your local general fabric store. Melanie Schuessler On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Laurie Taylor wrote: De, Thank you. You pretty much summed up what I thought, though I still can't help think that the silk chiffons that I've used in the past were to mushy to look like that. I had been looking at the edge treatment last night and wondering if it would be enough to make a mushy chiffon behave as Le Brun portrayed it. Silly to be so hung up on wanting to do it 'right', but I've loved it since the first time I saw it, regardless of its history. Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] comparison shopping - Tudor Shoes
On Aug 13, 2009, at 3:52 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: Our group portrays Elizabeth's court around 1575. Our costumer is VERY particular and she approves these. [Soles Thru Time] I guess I'm more particular than your costumer! I don't care for these. First, they use the worst possible sources (Norris and Peacock vie for the bottom of my list). For example, this sweet ankle strap shoe: http://www.solesthrutime.com/Images/Slippers/ Greenandyellowwithanklestrap.jpg Now, I'm not a shoe expert, but I have serious doubts that anyone was wearing a buckled ankle-strap slipper like this in the middle ages. I would, however, love to see evidence of it if anyone has some! Both Norris and Peacock drew some version of it, which makes me wonder where they got it, though I'm cynical enough to think (based on my experience with these sources) that Norris made it up and Peacock borrowed and improved it. Next, their interpretation of these sources looks modern and costumey to me. Take for example these: http://www.solesthrutime.com/Images/Slippers/TeardropSlashes.jpg They have a strange side-lacing that I've never seen in a 16th- century shoe, and instead of a straight slash, they have teardrop- shaped openings. These are probably the best ones: http://www.solesthrutime.com/Images/Slippers/Unfinishedgreenslippers.jpg though the one on the left has strange puffed leather in the slashes and the other has the pickadils way too far apart. For the money they're charging, I'd rather go with something that looks a little more accurate. Try the plain shoe at Revival: http://revival.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPRODProdID=310 It's not as fancy, but it's a much better shape and costs $100 less, too. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] comparison shopping - Tudor Shoes
If you don't mind spending more for custom shoes that will fit you *perfectly*, be unbelievably comfortable, and exactly the style and color and level of accuracy you wish, have a chat with Sarah Juniper: http://www.sarahjuniper.co.uk/ She is the most delightful lady, and the shoes she made for me years ago are still wonderful. She actually has email now as well as a price list in $US (which she didn't when I ordered). Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
On Jul 5, 2009, at 12:48 PM, Maggie wrote: Page 9 shows something the author actually calls a pill box, Perhaps Wilcox is the source of that misnomer. and gives it as Venetian about 1500. We are all aware, right, that this book is not proper documentation, being nothing but re-drawings from unidentified sources? Yes! And when a source can be identified, often the re-drawings have improved upon the originals. On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.comwrote: Wow, if you go to page 4, in the top right corner is a man wearing a hat that is almost exactly what everyone has been discussing. (hat/ caul with rolled/padded brim, even with a slight point in front)Could women have adopted a man's style? I would be very interested to see the source of this re-drawing. It looks pretty suspicious to me (which is to say that I don't recall ever seeing headwear of this type on a man in a 16th-century image). Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
On Jul 5, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Kimiko Small wrote: I know that image... it is Henri III in a color cartoon of a tapestry by Antoine Caron, c.1580. The roll shown in the drawing is actually Henri's hair, from what I can tell. It is a black hat matched with his black hair, so maybe that's where the confusion comes in. And he is wearing a ruff, not a falling band/collar. Good call on recognizing Henri III, but I wonder whether Wilcox wasn't working from this http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/joconde/0002/ m503604_87ee1701_p.jpg which the Louvre attributes to Francois Quesnel, 1582-1586. The listing from the joconde database is here: http://tinyurl.com/r87kfh This is a new one for me--it does rather look like a hat with a padded band instead of a brim. My apologies to Wilcox in absentia, though I maintain that she's not an entirely trustworthy source based on other images that she's changed in the re-drawing. I'm still not sure, however, that the women's styles we've been looking at are of this type. Some look puffy as if padded (though see my previous email for a possible explanation revolving around coiled braids and a caul), but they don't have the added height of the crown of the hat that's clearly visible on Henri. Nor do they have the profile of a puffed bit with something of a smaller circumference atop it. It's not impossible--I just think it's unlikely based on what I've seen so far. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] headwear in general
Do you mean resources for research? Resources for finding materials? Resources for purchasing finished headwear? Melanie Schuessler On Jul 5, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Susan Farmer wrote: while we're talking about hats I am decidedly milinnarily challenged. What are your favorite resources (particularly for pre-1650-ish) headwear? (Some of you may have addressed that issue on my LiveJournal, but feel free to weigh in again) Susan/ jerusha/ FlorentineScot - Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] headwear in general
On Jul 5, 2009, at 7:25 PM, Susan Farmer wrote: Sorry, that was pretty vague, wasn't it. I blame teaching an entire semester in 4 weeks. Resources for research. I don't have a very good clue as to what was appropriate when. (if that makes any sense!) It depends on your ultimate goal. If you're doing theatre costuming, and the general look is more important than historical accuracy, than redrawn overview books like Wilcox's will probably get you everything you need. For anything where more accuracy is desirable, I think it's better to go straight to images from the period in question. There are plenty of overviews of clothing history that can get you started (Boucher, Davenport, Payne), and from there you can delve into more and more specific imagery. As Kimiko points out, many times there are websites that already have a collection of images from the time and place you're researching. If you're having trouble with a specific period, odds are that someone on this list can advise you on where to look. I've never seen a single resource with images of headwear from every period aside from the (rather problematic) Wilcox one, so I'm afraid there's not a single answer. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Research problems WAS: Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
On Jul 5, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Käthe Barrows wrote: We need to remember that any redrawing is a secondary source at best. Sometimes Wilcox is not even a secondary source. My favorite example she got from Vecellio, who wasn't a primary source either. (Wilcox substituted heeled shoes and trousers where Vecellio shows a skirt and flat shoes.) She did violence to a number of Vecellio's images--I actually used Wilcox to make my very first Renaissance costume in high school and years later found out that the image I used was Vecellio's imperfect interpretation of the previous century re-drawn with improvements by Wilcox. Needless to say, it was several degrees of separation from accuracy. Luckily that costume was long since taken apart and made into something else! Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pillbox Hat
You're most welcome! Melanie Schuessler On Jun 29, 2009, at 1:00 PM, Julie wrote: Thanks so much for the great discussion and lots of pics. Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
On Jun 27, 2009, at 1:36 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: People have told me these are a type of French hood, but the effigy photos I've looked at all cover the ears, which these don't seem to do. None of these are French hoods. They're not the right shape, and French hoods have a narrow black velvet fall either hanging down the back http://www.shafe.co.uk/crystal/images/lshafe/Clouet- Francois_Catherine_de_Medici_c1555.jpg http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady7.jpg http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady29.jpg http://www.historicalportraits.com/Artworkimages/English%20School% 20Catherine%20Parr%20l.jpg http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/elizteerlinc1.jpg http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/JeanGordon.jpg http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady33.jpg or flipped up over the top http://www.historicalportraits.com/Artworkimages/English%20School% 20Catherine%20Parr%20l.jpg http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady2.jpg http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady48.jpg Of the portraits otsisto sent, these have large sheer veils pinned onto the caul or cap, but that's a different matter entirely. http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/elizanglesey.jpg http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/eliza3b.jpg http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/elizaredsieve.jpg So, how are these constructed? Are they a roll, a brim set far back on the head. Since none survive, we can only speculate. Based on other types of headwear that were worn at this time, it's likely that they are closed in back/on top rather than open. The two best models in my opinion are the caul and the cap. Consider http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/TBElizabeth1a.jpg http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Wentworth.jpg in which there's a hat on top of a caul (caul used here to mean a fairly unstructured bag on the back of the head--it should be noted that sometimes the cap I'll describe next is also called a caul by modern researchers). The caul, worn by itself, is one possibility. To get the standing shape seen in the portraits you're trying to emulate, it would either need to be padded or the hair would need to be dressed to support it in that shape. If a caul were worn over coiled braids as shown in this image, it would take the standing shape. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3289/2492974905_5baa3f7fe2_o.jpg Another possibility is what I'll call a cap to avoid confusion. Instead of being a bag like a caul, it's a band with a circular crown sewn in. For a nice side view of two caps, see Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, fig. 98. This is an image from the tomb of Richard Alington in Rolls Chapel (can't find it online). The figure on the left has a French hood with the fall flipped up, and the two others have caps. For a lower-class version of the same construction, see the central figure here: http://www.residenzgalerie.at/uploads/tx_csimageexplorer/ L_Schoenb_Beuckelaer_A5.jpg and the only figure here: http://www.univie.ac.at/romania/Sprwst4/uebungen/tdh/tdh1/5lescourses/ beuckelaer.jpg The modern pillbox is a similar construction to this cap, but with the band enlarged and the crown shrunk and lots of stiffening added in. For a teeny tiny image of a caul or cap worn by itself and seen from the back, see the lady in the red dress center front: http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Elizabeth42.jpg When I reproduce this style, I use the cap construction: http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/brown1.jpg It seems to work both with and without stiffening. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] oops Re: Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
The first example of a French hood with the fall flipped over the top was meant to be http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/elizaclopton1.jpg Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
On Jun 27, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: Thank you! When you say you use the cap construction, is the crown part larger than the band in circumference or the same? Your picture is exactly what I want to do, but I can't tell construction details from the photo. The crown is a bit bigger than the band in circumference, and it's pleated in (you could also gather it). If the crown was the same size as the band, it would be more like a modern pillbox. If you make the crown too big, it ends up looking like a floppy chef hat! You may have to experiment to get the right ratio. Good luck, Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
On Jun 26, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Helen Pinto wrote: The thing that struck me about this portrait is that it is the first one I've ever seen that didn't look like some kind of padded roll or twisted/braided arrangement. It has an edge and structure to it, Yes. See also: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/ Elizabeth_I_Steven_Van_Der_Meulen_detail.jpg [full painting at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/ Elizabeth_I_Steven_Van_Der_Meulen.jpg] and http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/elizavandermeulen1.jpg I have a couple of others that I will send privately, as I can't find them online. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
On Jun 26, 2009, at 7:02 PM, Susan Farmer wrote: Melanie, could you post the titles/artists of those paintings? We might be able to find some of them in our print resources! They are from Dress in the Age of Elizabeth I by Jane Ashelford. They're both from 1567 and are identified by Ashelford as being Mary (?) and Elizabeth (?) Boleyn by Steven van der Meulen. I found this one as well: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Claude_of_Valois1.jpg Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] men's suit size?
Sometimes more modern ones will have a tag inside the inner breast pocket. Otherwise, button the suit, flatten it out, and measure from armpit to armpit, making sure that the center front doesn't gape. Multiply that number by two and subtract four. That's basically the size chest the suit will fit, as most modern suits are built with about 4 of ease. Some period suits are designed to be closer- fitting than that, so it depends on the era. The length is from the seam at the base of the collar to the hem center back. Short suits are approximately 28-29, regular suits 30-31, and long suits 32-33. Again, period suits differ based on the style, and some modern suits are cut long for panache. You might also measure the sleeve, as whether a suit is the right length for a person really has more to do with their arms than their torso. For a generic modern suit, you generally want the relaxed fingertips of the wearer to brush the hem. So a short guy with long arms might wear a regular suit and a medium-height guy with short arms might wear a short suit (just make sure it still covers his behind). In theatre we usually take the sleeve measurement on a person from center back to wrist with the person holding their arm like they're a waiter with a towel over it. (The second number of men's dress shirt sizes is this measurement.) Measure the jacket the same way, and you'll get a much better fit than just doing the chest and the length. You can of course alter the sleeve length to a certain extent--especially if you're shortening--but it's a huge pain. Melanie Schuessler On Jun 19, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Kate Pinner wrote: On a contemporary (or for that matter, vintage) man's suit, once the tags are off, how do you tell what size it was sold as? I realize that most of them have been altered somewhat to the individual, but where do you measure the jacket for chest? length? Kate Pinner ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Working class pattern
I agree with Karen. Though I think the general outlines of this outfit are correct, it looks like an idealized genre painting. Melanie Schuessler On Jun 19, 2009, at 1:50 PM, seamst...@juno.com wrote: I don't think it's necessarily a painting of a real woman. I think it's a painting for an aristocratic audience who likes to think of the peasantry as happy and prosperous so it's an idealized image that may have never actually existed. I believe that the general style is quite accurate but the richness of the fabrics and trim may be a nod to the audiences expectations. Karen Seamstrix ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need Ruff Making Advice
Hi Penny, That's a interesting ruff. The setts are round on the top but creased on the bottom. If you want to starch it, I have instructions online at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html You would probably use the curling iron for the rounded top and, as I think someone else suggested, iron creases into the bottom. Putting it together, if you want to starch it, is the easiest thing in the world. Just gather the ruffle very tightly into the top of a neckband. It fans out when you starch it to the setts at the outer circumference. I would not recommend pleating of any kind if you intend to starch it--pleats get in the way and make life difficult. However, if what you want is a theatrical ruff that can be laundered and come out still set, use the suggestions people have sent for non- starched options (using horsehair braid inside folded fabric for the ruffle, putting fishing line in the edge), and cartridge pleat. The problem you'll have is that you want the ruff to be so tall that the height of it won't fit on the neckband. Cartridge pleats, when done on a straight strip of fabric, are the same height on the inside edge as the outside edge. So if you want to do cartridge pleats, you'll need to cut the ruffle on a curve so that it can fan out from the neck to the outer edge. I've done the math to figure this out for a neckline ruffle, and I ended up solving a quadratic equation for two variables. Maybe someone else has an easier way. As Sharon noted, starching really isn't that hard, and in this case it might be much the easier way. The only thing is that due to the size of the ruff you want to make, you'll need quite a lot of fabric gathered into the neckband. I recommend a really lightweight fabric. Also, instead of doing machine gathering, do teeny tiny itty bitty cartridge pleats (gauge it with two identical lines of hand- basting--like smocking) by hand. The stitches will probably end up being 3/16-3/8 long, but you'll have to experiment to get the right size. This is the method used in extant ruffs as described by Janet Arnold, and in my experience you can get MUCH more fabric in than when you do a machine-baste and pull the bobbin threads. Good luck, Melanie Schuessler On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:02 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: A first for me, I am making a ruff. I read the ruff advice area on Drea's website, but am confused if it is better to cartridge pleat or just gather pleats in groups. Is there a good site with illustrations about how to make the ruff? My son and I are making an anime costume http://www.geocities.com/ eyesofaclown/images/Perriot.JPG . Does anyone have advice on how to attach the ruffles to the band. I followed the ruff calculator on Drea's site and put in the measurements as follows: ruff depth: 5 inches width of each sett: 2 inches ruff height: 4 inches Will the ruff height at the band be 4 inches? If not, how high will it be at the neckband? Will it fan to 4 inches at the outer edge? I am also looking for advice on starching a ruff. Many thanks in advance. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 11 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On May 28, 2009, at 12:58 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: What would the veil be made of? Silk? Linen? And what color? Sharon In Queen Elizabeth's portraits, her veils are generally very transparent and white or pale gold. They're probably silk, but the white ones could be an extremely sheer linen. On May 28, 2009, at 1:02 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: In the second picture, I don't see any type of veiling hanging from the back. Do you think it was a caul or just that the veil can't be seen? Sharon -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sagittarius Uisce Beatha Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:15 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress I'm going by what it looks like to me. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/13.jpg in that picture the back shape looks like the QEI picture except this one covers the ears. According to the site that you just linked me to, it says later period french hoods are more often referred to as billiments because the hood itself had gotten so small. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/48.jpg This one doesn't cover the ears and you can see the crescent nicely. It's pictures like that, that make me say french hood. The second picture is of a French hood, which has a black velvet hood on the back, not a veil. If you're willing to go Spanish, French, or Italian 16th-century, you could get away with just jewels and ribbons in your hair, or jewels and ribbons plus a sheer veil. Like these: http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady45.jpg (Italian) http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElizabethAustria.jpg (French) http://www.flg.es/ficha.asp?ID=2726 (Spanish) Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On May 27, 2009, at 2:59 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: Thank you. Very interesting. Looks like what I want is a caul with a decorated billiment. Does that sound like what they were wearing in 1570's? A caul on its own is more likely. Billiments generally appeared on the front of French hoods. Images do appear of a billiment with a gathered bag on the back, like these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52219...@n00/517628674/ http://www.artsmia.org/viewer/detail.php?v=12id=548 but they generally appear on children, not adults. The exception I've found is Christina of Denmark http://www.oberlin.edu/amam/images/coxcie_michiel_fi_000.jpg http://www.studio-international.co.uk/studio-images/holbein/ Christina_b.jpg but hers lacks a decorative billiment. This one http://www.englandhistory.com/sections/government/Monarchs/ ElizabethI.jpg looks like a decorated caul with a veil pinned so that the edge makes small scallops over the top. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
While I agree with Laura on how coifs were probably worn, there is some debate about who would have worn them and under what circumstances. In the 1570s, coifs were probably worn in public mostly by the middle and lower classes, not by the upper and noble classes. The very fancy ones that survive were probably home/ sleepwear. The only exception I can think of off-hand is Theophilia, wife of the 3rd Earl of Worcester (1567): http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Theophila.jpg Please note that she's also wearing a forehead cloth. If you're doing an upper or noble class outfit, there is this one piece of evidence for coif-wearing, but you might be better served with a more formal type of headwear. Melanie Schuessler On May 27, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: On May 27, 2009, at 2:59 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: Thank you. Very interesting. Looks like what I want is a caul with a decorated billiment. Does that sound like what they were wearing in 1570's? Have you looked here yet? http://www.extremecostuming.com/articles/howtowearthecoif.html http://www.extremecostuming.com/reproductions/vacoift281975.html I suspect that this is what you want. jerusha/ susan - Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On May 27, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Alexandria Doyle wrote: Just to make sure I understand this, there is a difference between coif and caul, isn't there? Yes. At least modern people make a distinction. I've always thought the coif was the embroider (or not) little hat item that covers the top, side and back of the head, basically a shaped folded piece of cloth. It's sewn up at the top and gathered across the back of the neck. You can see images of coifs both flat and sewn up here: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/coifpics.html The distinguishing features of coifs are the shape when laid flat and the ground fabric, which was pretty much always white linen. Some are plain, some embroidered with blackwork, some with polychrome embroidery, and some even have gold thread and spangles on them. A caul was more of a cap worn on the back of the head, covering the hair that was put back in a bun/braid. It's basically a circle gathered and sewn to one side of a straight band whose short ends have been joined--at least, that is a construction that results in something that looks like what we see in the portraits. I don't know that we have any extant ones. The band is what you see in most portraits that show it, such as the one of Queen Elizabeth that has been referenced a few times in this thread. In 16th-century portraits, cauls (when the word is used to mean a cap and not a net) generally look like they are made of a fancier fabric (i.e., not white linen, and probably not linen at all) and are often decorated. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
It might be cooler, but if you are concerned with historical accuracy, be aware that this is a modern hybrid and not a historical style. What about putting a veil over it, as Elizabeth did? Melanie Schuessler On May 27, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Sagittarius Uisce Beatha wrote: I think a caul would work with the later period french hood/billiment, especially in the heat. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.comwrote: I was going to make a caul, but was looking for something different to go over/with it, hence the decorated roll/billiment/whatever. I had a hat before, but found that it gets really hot, so was hoping to find something less. Sharon ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On May 27, 2009, at 5:14 PM, Sagittarius Uisce Beatha wrote: I'm going by what it looks like to me. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/13.jpg in that picture the back shape looks like the QEI picture except this one covers the ears. According to the site that you just linked me to, it says later period french hoods are more often referred to as billiments because the hood itself had gotten so small. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/48.jpg This one doesn't cover the ears and you can see the crescent nicely. It's pictures like that, that make me say french hood. These are both definitely French hoods. The white crescent with gold on either side and black behind (the black is the hood) are a dead giveaway. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Pair of Bodies for a petite figure.
The body of my corset is boned, but the tabs are not. The farthingale goes over, and the points come through the tabs and the waistband of the farthingale. I agree that everyone's experience will be different! I've corsetted enough people to see that firsthand. Melanie On May 22, 2009, at 1:29 AM, michaela de bruce wrote: Which way were you wearing the tabs? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Pair of Bodies for a petite figure.
Right, but without straps, yes? I'm saying that the problem she had probably arose from not having straps rather than not having tabs. Also that she could add boned tabs (though not easily, as the boning has to go all the way up into the corset) and that would help some, but that adding straps would help more (and be much simpler!). My phrasing did assume that the corset already had tabs--sorry about the confusion. Melanie On May 22, 2009, at 3:23 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: I'm confused; she did bone it, just made it without tabs. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler Ah--that can cause real problems. Boning the tabs will help in that situation, but adding shoulder straps will help more. I should clarify that I'm not against boned tabs. They're great. But if you're putting a slender person in their first corset, and there's no boning in the sides and back, I think they're more work than they're worth. Melanie Schuessler On May 21, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: Hers didn't have shoulder straps. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Pair of Bodies for a petite figure.
Ah--that can cause real problems. Boning the tabs will help in that situation, but adding shoulder straps will help more. I should clarify that I'm not against boned tabs. They're great. But if you're putting a slender person in their first corset, and there's no boning in the sides and back, I think they're more work than they're worth. Melanie Schuessler On May 21, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: Hers didn't have shoulder straps. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:47 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Pair of Bodies for a petite figure. On May 20, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: My daughter is thin and made a corset without tabs. She has not been happy with it, as it transfers all the weight of the farthingale and skirts to her waist/back. She now wishes she'd made one with tabs to help distribute the weight better. Remember, thin women don't have as much padding as we not-so-thin ones. True, but if the corset isn't too long (which can be quite uncomfortable) and if it has straps (which it really should), tying the farthingale to the corset should distribute the weight of the skirts up through the torso. I had the same issue with the weight of the skirts resting on my waist and lower back until I tied the farthingale to the corset. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Pair of Bodies for a petite figure.
Either one will work, but view A will be more comfortable. If she isn't curvy, she doesn't need all the boning around the back on view B.And the boned tabs aren't so important for spreading the stress out over the upper hip if she doesn't really have hips. I would encourage you to talk to her about tying her farthingale to her corset if she's wearing a farthingale. You'll need to put in eyelet holes if she agrees (and the drawing from the pattern cover seems to show them--they were there in the original). This is especially important for figures with no hips to speak of, as the farthingale will just slide down if it's not tied to the corset. You can see how mine works here: http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/under.html Best of luck, Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Pair of Bodies for a petite figure.
Yes, but this version of the corset doesn't have boning in the sides and back--only down the front. On a slender figure, it's not really a problem unless you've got bone ends digging into your waist. And I doubt someone as slight as the client described will lace too tightly (which can cause problems, you're right). Melanie On May 20, 2009, at 2:22 PM, seamst...@juno.com wrote: I've found that boning the tabs makes a huge amount of difference in taking the pressure off the waistline and distributing it over more surface area. I've seen really nasty blisters and abrasions (at the RenFaire) from people wearing tight, tabless corsets. We call it 'corset burn'. Of course, you have to make sure that you are using really flexible boning in the tabs. Super rigid steel bones don't bend the right way to go over hips and can be painful too. Karen Seamstrix ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] possibly OT -- Academic Hoods
On Apr 18, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Kate Pinner wrote: Some British institutions use the Tudor round cap in velvet for PhDs, so I made mine in plain black wool with no tassel (since I'm a mere MFA). Melanie Schuessler Eastern Michigan University I'm an MFA, too, but Yale figured that since it was a 3 Year terminal degree, we have the right to wear PhD robes (and be called Dr) -- so that's what they gave us. Well, that's awfully nice! That makes me feel better about bending the rules to wear a Tudor cap instead of a mortarboard. I can't stand mortarboards. Melanie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] possibly OT -- Academic Hoods
On Apr 17, 2009, at 7:21 AM, Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: Master's hoods have narrower bands the color of which, I believe, tells only the type of Master's (M.A., M.S., etc.), and a lining in the institution's colors. The velvet bands on Master's hoods are color-coded by discipline. The things ARE rather counter-intuitive to put on, but if someone would explain to the kids that the little loops are meant to go around a shirt button I think they'd figur out how to get it on right-side-up eventually. Every time I walk at commencement I see full-professor PhDs who have no idea how to wear their hoods. As a professional costumer, my strong urge is to go around fixing their costumes, but since I don't know most of them, I restrain myself! the M.A. robe has bat-wing sleeves, traditionally sewn closed across the bottom and with a horizontal slit at about the elbow for the arm to come through (but cheap robes may have open sleeves that come down to the elbow in front and are angled longer in back--yes, no place for tissues, car keys, or the Times crossword) When I made mine, I made the sleeves the same shape as the modern ones, but open from the shoulder to the wrist in front like the hanging sleeve from which they are derived. It means I have to wear black sleeves underneath it, but it looks much less silly than the ones with wrist-level slits. I also did the pleats in the body of the gown like the 16th-century VA loose gown in Arnold's Patterns of Fashion. I decided that since I'm a 16th-century scholar, I should dress like a 16th-century scholar! Theoretically here only Ph.D.s are entitled to the soft square cap instead of the mortarboard (and only they get the gold tassel), but many M.A.s who own their regalia wear the soft cap too, but with a black tassel. Some British institutions use the Tudor round cap in velvet for PhDs, so I made mine in plain black wool with no tassel (since I'm a mere MFA). Melanie Schuessler Eastern Michigan University ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Thanks, Annette, for sending this image! No matter how it was done, it was a huge amount of work. It's hard for me to imagine that this could be successfully set if all those points were stitched together at the start. (Does heat damage pearls? I suppose they could be fake ones made of glass.) So I would guess that these are either pearl-headed pins, or that the lady was willing to pay to have it stitched each time after it was set. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs
As far as I can tell from the available evidence, even the huge post-1600 ruffs were not set into wide cartridge pleats at the neck edge which were then butted up against and sewn to the entire height of the neck band. Every extant piece I've ever seen has had the ruff gathered tightly or set with hundreds of teeny tiny pleats into the top edge of the neckband. There are a couple of the really wide head-on-a-platter ones surviving, and even those are constructed with the same method (see POF 4). Those portraits that show the shape of the ruff near the neck or the edge of the neckband also support this construction. I've never seen any evidence for a stiffening method for the figure-eights other than starching, though I'd be most interested to hear about it if anyone else has. In my experience, gathering into the top of the neckband and starching is the only way to get the effect seen in portraits. As others have mentioned, Arnold shows an extant piece with blobs of wax holding the sets, and she mentions the possibility of pins holding them in place. I've found that if I pin the ruff while it's drying, I can take the pins out later and the ruff will hold its shape. Instructions for the way I do mine can be found on my website at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html for those who wish to try it. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Books with scaled patterns (pre 1600)
On Mar 20, 2009, at 2:35 PM, sunshine.k.buch...@kp.org wrote: There's also the theatrical costuming books but I don't collect those... so I don't know them off the top of my head... except for: Patterns for Theatrical Costumes by Katherine Stand Holkeboer I would echo the caution of another poster on books of theatrical patterns. Katie is a lovely woman (she retired from the position I now have), but she would never claim that her patterns are anything other than what the title says--theatrical. And please don't use Hill and Bucknell. I wouldn't even use it for theatrical purposes. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mary I -- FOUND
Thanks! This is very interesting, and more convincing than the later version, though there are still some things that seem odd. And I still don't think it's Mary I or Holbein. Melanie Schuessler On Mar 4, 2009, at 3:38 AM, Patricia Dunham wrote: My dear husband is loopy tonight, too much work out in the cold today. So he was noodling around on-line, bored with his cheating cribbage program (!), and found the original Mary I painting. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHouseOfTudor still looking for an attribution. (for hours and hours and hours! no luck!!) ah, the wonder-boy does it again! I had cleaned away all the links to the engraving that started this, but he has found it http:// womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women_4.htm The caption there says after Holbein! Comparing the two, we find it very interesting how much older the monochrome looks (the person in the monochrome, I mean), vs. the child in color! The white furring in the color image looks much more reasonable, too. enjoy! Chimene Gerek ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
On Mar 3, 2009, at 8:39 AM, J A Urbik wrote: What I would like advise about would be should I put an addition layer of sturdy linen or something as an underlining on the bodice, or will the just the wool be ok? Hopefully the kirtle will be sturdy enough to hold you up, and the overgown will just lay on top of it. Mine is two layers of wool with nothing in between (and it's reversible!). The weight of the skirt keeps the bodice pulled fairly flat. http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/Flemish7.html I know I will need a strip of something sturdy down the front edges, from previous experience with the style, but I have not worked too much in wool, so i don't know how it will go. I put plastic boning (not period, but works well) just in the edges, and it works just fine. I made the seam allowances into a casing so I didn't have to stitch through the outside. It does help to have something stiff so the lacing doesn't buckle the edges when you tighten it. Hypothetically it shouldn't be a problem, what with the weight of the skirt pulling things downward and the sturdiness of the kirtle underneath smoothing everything, but if you're not entering it in a competition, it's probably better to cheat a little and be safe. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Flemish Dress
You didn't ask me, but since mine is also wool lined with wool, I'll send my answer too. I had two great pieces of wool, and I wanted it to be warm and reversible. I only wear it to cold-weather events with the woolen partlet on top and woolen sleeves pinned on. With my head covered and a pair of gloves (or my hands tucked into the overskirt), I'm toasty for long periods down to around 40 degrees F. Melanie Schuessler On Mar 3, 2009, at 9:26 PM, Rebecca Schmitt wrote: I'm curious why you decided to line with wool as well as use wool for the top fabric? Most of the extant garments I can think of (and, admittedly, my memory on this is not spectacular!) are lined with linen. I made an overgown of this sort a few years back, with the outside a mid-to-lightweight wool and the lining linen; I'm pretty sure I did not use an interlining of any sort. I it cut away in the front quite a bit, so it really doesn't come together much past the shoulder straps. It's very comfy, although it does wrinkle some. That doesn't really bother me much - the ease of movement as I chase my 3-year-old is much more important! Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence, Bristol Renn Faire * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mary I ???
I would guess that this is either an entirely Victorian construction or a Victorian redrawing of someone's posthumous portrait of Mary I (if it's not misidentified from the beginning). The style of the sleeves is certainly later than Mary and Holbein, but the whole thing is unconvincing to me as a 16th-century construction. I can find a couple of examples near this extreme sleeve shape from the 1560s and early 70s. Some of Mor's work comes close, such as: http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-a-3119.z?leftcoulisse and there's the Christina of Denmark: http://tinyurl.com/co9r4m (Maybe that's what you were remembering, Kimiko? You have it on your site as well.) The sleeve isn't quite right, but overall the best match I can find is this: http://www.faucet.net/costume/1560swoman.html Unfortunately, I don't have any attribution for it--anyone recognize it? Back to the image at hand: the partlet is bizarre, especially coupled with those undersleeves. In addition, that style of headdress generally comes in plain white. Hers looks more like some of the decorated cauls from the 1560s, like the one in the third picture. I also wonder what the decor at center front of the forepart is meant to be. It doesn't look like any sort of trim or embroidery or couching I've ever seen in the 16th. Other details are just far enough off that this whole thing looks like a pastiche or a misinterpreted redrawing to me. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] corset for a singer
I used to work in an opera costume shop, and our singers had no trouble with normal corsets. You could, however, put a small elastic panel in each side if she feels the need. On how much to reduce, it depends a lot on the person. Usually the larger a woman gets, the squishier she is and the more you have to reduce to get the right effect comfortably. Sometimes, though, even larger ladies are quite firm. I would make the corset just a bit smaller but with an eye to how you'll take it in if it's too big. If the fabric has any stretch, that will also play a role. Good luck, Melanie Schuessler On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:53 PM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Thanks for sharing your experience. Just for my imagination: what bust-waist-hip reduction would you choose in this case? (Ho many cm smaller?) I usually make the bust about 2cm smaller than the measured bust circumference, the waist...up to 10cm smaller...and the hips - no reduction. Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Velvet seller in U.S.?
On Jan 14, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: I've dealt with them for silk dupioni and taffeta. Their prices are excellent, and so is their shipping and customer service. What weight is the taffeta? Is it lining weight, or is it the heavier sort? Thanks, Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Velvet seller in U.S.?
Interesting! Thanks, Melanie On Jan 14, 2009, at 10:15 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: I used it interlined with broadcloth for a 1625 doublet. It's a medium weight, but it's got a lot of body. Carmen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
On Dec 10, 2008, at 7:38 PM, Kimiko Small wrote: Something I've been working on are the Anne of Brittany style of French hoods. They really are simple to create (a rectangle actually seems to be a workable base, or you can turn to Norris' Tudor book for a more shaped pattern), and work very well when worn attached over a simple biggin or coif, with a billiment made from a string of pearls. This is an excellent idea. I would stick with simple shapes rather than going to Norris, who is making it up. These early draped hoods are really lovely. They should actually have a tail on the back, being descended from earlier hoods with liripipes, but the style is so little-known that no one would notice the absence if you left it off and just did a plain drape. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
On Dec 11, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Kimiko Small wrote: The one image I have that showed the back having that hanging liripipe end seemed to not look exactly like the Anne of Brittany style, but a slightly larger, fuller hood, at least to my eye. http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/TudorWomen/1500/ManConfessD3.html It may be that both are descended from the same style of hood, or are just similar in style. The other AoB hoods I have images of, I don't see anything to suggest the liripipe - tho just about all of those images I have seen show front or side views, not a definitive back view where the front is clearly the AoB style. That's an earlier 15th-century style, close to the original fitted hood with liripipe. It developed in several different directions, with the tail getting wider and flatter as time went on. One style had longer versions of the lappets you see in that one with a split at the shoulder, and one had a shorter drape without lappets. There's a portrait medal of Anne of Brittany in profile that shows the tail pretty clearly. http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/21429-popup.html In a larger image of it you can see that the drape has a border, while the tail does not. There is also an illumination of Anne that shows the two different parts quite clearly. http://www.themorgan.org/collections/swf/exhibOnline.asp?id=364 Melanie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
On Dec 10, 2008, at 4:39 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: Otherwise I can't help with details on this period. This is a bit past my period of specialty; I'll refer you to E House (who's already gotten there with good info, I see), and Melanie Schuessler. Replied privately. :) Melanie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Small-scale clothing
On Nov 21, 2008, at 12:05 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: Wow indeed. Also of interest, this appears to be a promo for the upcoming movie version of Coraline, an absolutely brilliant children's novel by Neil Gaiman. (If you've never read it, I would strongly recommend the audiobook version, which captivated me on a very long car trip a few years ago.) I would add that, while brilliant, this book is pretty creepy and not really suitable for young kids. Looking forward to the movie! Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Advice on books available from Amazon.com
On Nov 21, 2008, at 8:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry I missed the original post. While I agree with the above assessment, I think Costume in Detail is a MUST HAVE for anyone who is halfway serious into study of garments of this period. They provide so many details on the interior construction, plus line drawings of sources that you can then track down elsewhere. I agree. This book shows you the details of how things are fastened on the inside, which for some of these garments is a fairly intricate process, and as Ann notes, how things are put together--where the bones are, how the linings are put in, etc. It's not a book of patterns and probably wouldn't help a beginner, but for someone who really wants to know how clothing was made in the past, this has some great information. Bradfield doesn't always show you the specific details you want to see, and she might not include exactly the style you want from exactly the year you want, but what she does include is very valuable. I'd also second a recommendation for Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines. It's true that it does not include construction information and thus might not be helpful for a beginner. But it does have scaled patterns taken from extant corsets that one can enlarge and re-size instead of starting from scratch, and the selection of dates and styles is pretty good. I've used it many, many times. I would not recommend spending money for anything Norris wrote, as he is extremely unreliable. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 2 questions, one 18th, one 19th
I second the recommendation for this place! They have real silver metal trim (you can see some of the older pieces tarnishing) for fairly reasonable prices and were very helpful to me. Melanie Schuessler On Nov 19, 2008, at 10:59 PM, Anne Moeller wrote: I went to Passamaneria Valmar in Florence last week and it was wonderful. They told me they will do mail order. Their email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] and the website is www.valmar- florence.com I sure smoked my poor old Visa there :) Anne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corsetry issues (was Looking for bad examples)
On Oct 2, 2008, at 6:12 PM, Chris Laning wrote: I also have a friend who finds that a normal 16th-century corset and fitted gown cause too much of the weight of the skirt to be carried by her hips and lower back, which she finds very painful. She does much better with something where most of the weight of the dress hangs from the shoulders (loose gowns, for instance, although she can also wear a fitted gown with a few bones but not a full corset). In her case, the medical problem is nerve damage. If there's nerve damage, anything corset-like might end up being uncomfortable, but in general, a well-fitted 16th-century corset and farthingale take the pressure *off* of the lower back and hips. That is, if you do three things: make the corset with straps, make sure the corset fits correctly (especially that it isn't too long), and tie the farthingale to the corset. I don't have any medical issues, but I did have problems with lower back pain with my Elizabethans until I started tying my farthingale to my corset. Once you do that, the pressure of the skirts should be distributed up the torso and through the shoulders rather than falling on the hips. The issue with corsets being cut too long is one that I find frequently, especially with larger figures. People gain weight differently, but for some, the apparent waistline drops as they get larger, and they tend to want the waistline of their corset to be where they wear the waistline of their clothing. This generally results in the waistline of the corset being too low--sometimes so low that it's sitting on the hipbones and throwing the whole fit off as well as causing lower back issues. For corsetry in general, the location of the waist should be judged by finding the bottom of the ribs and the top of the hipbones and aiming midway in between. On larger figures, this can result in an uncomfortable bulge of flesh below the bottom of the corset, and in that case try the styles that have tabs on the bottom and continue the boning of the body of the corset to the bottom of the tabs. That will dissipate the compression of the corset comfortably rather than creating a hard line that cuts into the midsection. Of course, if you're doing the longer 19th-century corsets, you don't have worry about it as long as you get the waistline in the right place. Melanie Schuessler (who spent four years draping for an opera company) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fwd: 16th-century Mechanical doll
Begin forwarded message: From: Jocelyn Hinkle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was browsing the Kunsthistoriches Museum collection and ran across this mechanical doll http://www.khm.at/staticE/page1808.html Mid 16th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hose lining
On Jul 30, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/ Image:Piero_della_Francesca_016.jpg. I would be thankful to Melanie if she would look some exact pictures up sometime, because my collection of manuscripts is very poor:-( As I said before, they're not joined hose, but you can see the partial lining at the top and the holes for points (lacing) very clearly. This is from Piero della Francesca's fresco cycle of the Legend of the True Cross in the San Frencesco choir chapel in Arezzo, Italy. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Piero_della_Francesca_016.jpg There's also St. Roch by Carpaccio in the Carrara Gallery, Bergamo. You can't tell how far down the lining goes, though. http://home.earthlink.net/~lizjones429/crivelli-st-roch-wallace.jpg I thought that one of Pisanello's hanged men also showed hose lining, but alas it does not. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Florence colloquium
And I. Melanie Schuessler On Jul 11, 2008, at 3:03 PM, A. Thurman wrote: I'll be there... Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Can you help me with this costume?
On Jun 1, 2008, at 11:57 PM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/object.asp? searchText=restorationx=12y=13object=74860row=36 A wide lace berthe and matching lace on the sleeves would seem to be a good start to try to get the impression across. That's great! It's very interesting to see both the painting and the dress. Aylwen, do you have any fabric scraps left from your 1830s dress? I think the lace collar and sleeves are very necessary, but adding the tabs would also help a lot, especially if your gown has a pointed waistline (can't tell under that fan). Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Boots and Shoes
I also have a pair of shoes by Sarah Juniper (1570s), and I can't say enough good things about them. She will make them as accurate as you wish, and you have never worn anything so comfortable. Two caveats: as far as I know, she does not have email, and she does not take credit cards. For those of us across the pond, it makes doing business less convenient, but it is SO worth it. Melanie Schuessler On May 12, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Gilbert wrote: I don't know whether this site will help or not, but yum: http://www.sarahjuniper.co.uk/index.html. If anyone could make you period shoes and boots, I bet this woman could... Marjorie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Norris' Medieval Costume and Fashion
I have his Tudor volume rather than the Medieval one, but the text in the Tudor volume is entirely suspect. Just as in his drawings, in his text there are some good bits of information and some that are almost entirely invented. Since he doesn't cite anything, the only way you'll know the difference is to check up on him with other sources. My favorite example from the Tudor book is a lovely drawing of Queen Elizabeth riding a horse in a black gown. When I first saw it, I thought, Neat! I don't recognize that portrait--I wonder where it is... since he often redraws from 16th-century images. Looking in the text, however, I found that he had invented the picture based on a short description from a 16th-century text. He included the description in full. Looking at the date on the description and the picture, I found that he hadn't really paid attention to what was fashionable in that year when he was drawing. Much later, I found the actual description in the original source and realized that not only had he invented the picture on rather scanty evidence (and done a fairly poor job of it), he had embellished the description in his text as well, adding in details not found in the original! I have also found the originals of some of his redrawings, and he is very prone to correcting the images so they'll be in line with his own sense of current fashion, including adding a cute little bow on top of a french hood in one redrawing of a memorial brass. I don't trust him an inch. Melanie Schuessler On May 12, 2008, at 9:28 PM, Genie Barrett wrote: Having just received Norris in a gift basket this last weekend, I am wondering how good his TEXT is. I've heard so many of you mention this as one of the least desirable of costuming books, but no one says why. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What in the world? Odd 16th C. child's skirt
On May 4, 2008, at 10:10 PM, Bella wrote: I think it's an optical illusion. What at first looked to me like an opening in the skirt, I now believe to be a blackworked handkercheif/small towel pinned to the waist. Yes, it's a muckinder. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan frog closures
On Apr 30, 2008, at 2:23 PM, Julie wrote: I made a coat dress/Spanish Surcoat which has frogs up the whole front opening. I'm trying to get documentation on the use of frogs in Elizabethan England. There are a couple of pictures in Janet Arnold. Does anyone have some links to either portraits or other primary type docs showing use of frogs and/or how the specific ones shown were tied? On May 1, 2008, at 5:39 AM, Wanda Pease wrote: I love Frog closures too but they don't seem to be standard on English Elizabethans. However, there is a painting of Elizabeth in a white dress with frogs, labeled Polish Dress and one of the fameous ones where she is much older, holding gloves, the dress of a light color with orange frogging (?). It depends on how you define frogging. We tend to think of frogs as a fancy piece of knotted cord on each side, one with a knotted ball of cord making a button, the other with a loop. The two examples you give are of a different design. Each has a flat horizontal piece of trim extending out in both directions from the center front with decorative tufts at the outer ends. At the center is a button and loop closure. This style is thought to have originated with Polish coats that had similar decorative fastenings (See Queen Eliz's Wardrobe Unlock'd pp. 136-8. She notes that the term frogging was not used in the 16th c.). The only other possibility I can think of is the portrait of Elizabeth of Valois showing knots of pearls down the center front: http://www.mystudios.com/women/abcde/sofonisba_valois.jpg It doesn't look as though the buttons and loops are integral with the knots (and I'm not sure how they could be, since the knots are strands of pearls), so it's still not quite a cognate with modern frogging in a structural sense. But it does have some of the aesthetic idea of decorative knots associated with fastenings. Can you extrapolate from this isolated example to justify modern frogging? Your call. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Where is this from again?
I can't give you any examples from the 15th century, but there are some images of this square-bottomed armscye from the 16th century, especially in Bruegel: http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/images/back.jpg http://www.dia.org/the_collection/overview/viewobject.asp? objectid=35573 (the lady in the foreground on the left in grey--zoom in as much as possible, and you can barely see the horizontal seams) If anyone with an interest in the 16th century has a chance to see this painting in person, do so. It's amazing. How the sleeve is cut is hard to say, as I've never tried it. I'd guess that it does have corners but isn't actually rectangular at the top, because if it was cut that way and as tight-fitting as these images, it would be extremely awkward and wouldn't sit right. But it was done somehow, at least in the 16th--possibly a survival from the 15th? Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Detroit Inst Art - Problems : Where is this from again?
Sorry--the object id should be part of the url and got chopped off in the message. Try http://tinyurl.com/5waqof Melanie On Apr 28, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Saragrace Knauf wrote: I can't get the second image to come up given the object id. Can you tell us what painting it is? I looked through their artist list and didn't find any from Breughel Also tried to register..that doesn't seem to be working for me either! (sad face). http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/images/back.jpg http:// www.dia.org/the_collection/overview/viewobject.asp? objectid=35573 (the lady in the foreground on the left in grey-- zoom ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sleeve construction: Was Detroit Inst Art - Problems Where was this from again.
On Apr 28, 2008, at 11:51 AM, Saragrace Knauf wrote: Got the link to work- Thanks. When studying to make my model of these (Breughel) jackets, I interpreted the sleeve to actually set into an arm hole. I see that it could also be interpreted without. I just went on the majority rules - even within this painting the similar fashion is shown with a round armhole on women's clothes. Most of the men's also are set into a round hole. It's true that some are shown with a regular round armscye, but some are clearly missing that seam, so I think the square-bottomed armscye was another option (especially if it shows up in the 15th century as well). Someday I'll try one just to see how it works. Melanie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early Tudor/medieval Fashion or Not?
On Mar 29, 2008, at 3:49 AM, Kimiko Small wrote: I have found the effigy monument that shows a short gown over very long kirtle from Dr. Jane Malcolm-Davies effigies web site. The woman: http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/sstormwatch/CostumeIdeas/? action=viewcurrent=95_main.jpg ( http://tinyurl.com/2kp5ay ) The view of her hem: http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/sstormwatch/CostumeIdeas/? action=viewcurrent=95_137_main.jpg ( http://tinyurl.com/2kwfxq ) There is an interesting little note that Jane provided with that image. The top layer (the gown) is shorter than the under layer (the kirtle). This was described as characteristic of Englishwomen's dress by the Venetian ambassador in 1554 (quoted in Carter, A [1984] “Mary Tudor’s Wardrobe” in Costume, 18, 20). This is a trifle misleading, I'm afraid. In “Mary Tudor’s Wardrobe,” Carter quotes Soranzo, the Venetian ambassador, as saying Queen Mary's garments are of two sorts; the one a gown such as men wear but fitting very close, with an underpetticoat which has a very long train; and this is her ordinary costume, being also that of the gentlewomen of England. The other garment is a gown and bodice, with wide hanging sleeves in the French fashion which she wears on state occasions. (p. 15) It is the first style that Malcolm-Davies is using as textual evidence for this shorter outer gown. But Carter presents a fairly detailed argument that this style is actually a loose gown over a trained kirtle. Her summary is Moreover, orders for French kirtles generally follow those for loose gowns, and it may be asserted that this is the combination inferred by Soranzo, with the kirtle train visible below the hem of the gown. (p. 19) It is implied here that Carter believes the loose gown on women to have been floor-length, but she states it earlier when discussing how a woman's loose gown differed from the gown such as men wear that Soranzo references. (p. 17) (There are of course shorter loose gowns on women later in the century, though the evidence for them is from France and Italy.) So using this reference as an argument that wearing a shorter fitted gown (like the one in this effigy or the other problematic examples we've seen) over a longer kirtle was a general fashion among Englishwomen at this time is a bit disingenuous. There is something of a disconnect between the idea of loose gown and the description of fitting very close, but there are some funeral brasses from the 1550s and later that show loose gowns with a girdle worn on top so that the fullness is held close to the body. If anyone has a copy of Laver's _Costume of the Western World: Early Tudor_, plate 42 is a good example from 1550. Page 96 of Ashelford's _Visual History of Costume: The Sixteenth Century_ has an almost identical look from 1578, but as Robin helpfully pointed out to me once, patterns for brasses were used long after the fashions they depicted went out of style. All that said, there do appear to be at least two English examples of a slightly shorter fitted gown over a longer kirtle that can't be explained via allegorical representation or sainthood without a bit of a stretch (the effigy and Mary Tudor's lady in waiting). Whatever it was, it doesn't seem to have been a general fashion. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What is a serious costumer?
Justine, I wouldn't worry so much about labels. All of us have different skill sets, and we all aim to improve over time. Some of us are lucky enough to make our living doing this, but there are many others who are quite serious and highly skilled but who are not technically professionals. You've already started taking the right steps to improve your knowledge and skills. You've gotten some good tips on research, so that's one thing you can do. If you're interested in the mid-19th century, look online first at some of the fashion plates from Godey's Lady's Book and some of the others from that era. Examples can be found at http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey/godeytitle.html http://www.iath.virginia.edu/utc/sentimnt/gallgodyf.html http://www.history.rochester.edu/godeys/toc-m.htm There are plenty of other places online where you can find images from the 19th century http://www.costumegallery.com/ (some content requires subscription) http://www.vintagevictorian.com/Victorian.html http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/index.html http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/index.shtml and sites that have images of extant garments: http://www.demodecouture.com/realvict/ http://www.elegantvintage.com/ http://www.meg-andrews.com/ http://www.vintagetextile.com/index.html http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau.asp http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/3timesearch/tsnineteenth/ 19.html These will give you more information on styles, details, construction, and materials. The closer you can get to those, the better your costumes will be. In fact, they'll start looking like historic clothing rather than costumes. Try choosing a specific year or two and researching the clothing of that time. Then narrow it down to a country and then a region, because there were certainly regional differences, even within countries. For example, people in New York City in 1850 were wearing very different clothing than those in rural Kansas in the same year. Then focus on a specific type of garment--evening gowns or working dresses or maternity dresses. As you narrow your research, you'll begin to see the details of cut, color, fabric, style, etc. much more clearly. Once you're ready to start on a new project, there are some places online selling fabrics and other materials for 19th-century reproductions, including http://www.corsetmaking.com/ http://www.grannd.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc? Screen=CTGYStore_Code=GSCategory_Code=CC http://www.farthingales.on.ca/ http://www.reproductionfabrics.com/index.php http://www.periodfabric.com/ http://www.colonialcrafts.com/category/Reproduction_Fabric/c41 There are of course many purveyors of reproduction patterns out there of varying qualities. Reviews of some of them can be found at http://www.gbacg.org/great-pattern-review/ If you have strong patterning skills, you can use one of the books that reproduce 19th-century patterns, like those sold at R.L. Shep http://www.rlshep.com/ As for dyes, the mid-19th century was an exciting time. I can't recommend any specific resources, but you might try some histories of textiles to start and see what their sources are for this particular period. I've taken most of the links above from my online bookmark site at http://del.icio.us/melisant which has many many other fun links. Feel free to browse. Melanie Schuessler (also a contributor to Your Wardrobe Unlock'd) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bad books:
There is a short bad books list at Jessamyn's Closet. The lady is very nice and I'm sure she would welcome suggestions for additions to the list. http://jessamynscloset.com/badbooks.html I second the recommendation against anything by John Peacock. Melanie Schuessler On Feb 22, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Barbara wrote: Just out of curiosity, does anyone maintain a list of these Bad Books for those of us in the early stages of our interest in historical costume? I don't want to look at a book and realize after I buy it that the research is suspect. I have started a list of good books to look out for, but a bad book list would be very helpful. Barbara ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
If you're planning to cover up to 1600 and not just 1500-1600, you might consider expanding your talk to include discussion of 14th and 15th-century images of saints. Robin Netherton is the expert here, but I do a little version of Jeff Foxworthy's you might be a redneck if that I call they might be a saint if in my Costume History class. Images of saints are particularly common in these centuries in Italy and the Low Countries, though they appear elsewhere as well. They tend to be wearing fanciful and/or imaginary clothing, and for some reason modern people looking for research always seem to zoom in on them. The key is that often saints are depicted holding or standing on something odd. They might be holding a severed head, a plate of breasts, an eyeball on a stick, a spiked wheel, a tower, etc. Or these elements might be somewhere else in the painting. They often relate to the way in which the saint was martyred and were meant to identify the subject to the medieval viewer. Another giveaway is of course a halo or a set of wings--biblical characters and angels can almost never be trusted for clothing research. Saints are also often depicted holding a strange green feather-looking thing, which is meant to be a palm frond. I tell my students to check out the caption first then start looking for the odd props. In addition to saints and biblical folk, mythological and classical people depicted in medieval and Renaissance paintings are often not trustworthy for research. If the person is meant to represent Honesty or some other abstract concept, they are probably not wearing real clothing either. I encourage you to work this information in, because much of the bad research that I see depicts saints, biblical, mythological, or classical people. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glowing review of *Medieval Clothing Textiles 2*
On Feb 21, 2008, at 9:06 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: Reviews seem to take a long time to catch up to publications. We publish once a year, and our third volume came out in April 2007; see http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832917.HTM for contents. That volume includes a paper by listmember Melanie Schuessler on 15th-c. children's clothing. Actually, it's 16th-century children's clothing--1530s to be specific. I just don't want any 15th-century fans to get excited, go find it, and then realize it's not what they thought. Melanie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Chris Laning wrote: For instance, Robin is fond of pointing out that elaborately decorated or jeweled bands along the hemline are usually confined to queens, saints, angels and other people who don't have to worry about getting their hems dirty. ;) I'd like to point out that in the 16th century, highly decorated bands along the hemline were actually fashionable. It's true that only certain people (the wealthy) could afford them, but they're not markers of imaginary clothing in the 16th like they might be in earlier centuries. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Cape May/Morris Co
I think it's spelled caparison, for those who want to search it online. Melanie On Feb 17, 2008, at 3:38 AM, otsisto wrote: Though I have heard it refered to as barding, I have been informed by many a horse person that it is comparisons. Supposedly, barding is in reference to horse armour and camparison is the fabric heraldic garments. But online I find horse people calling it barding. http://ilaria.veltri.tripod.com/ http://www.bayrose.org/Poppy_Run/horse_barding_web.pdf \ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Black Linen
On Feb 13, 2008, at 3:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: h I am not sure where to start or what formal techniques other costumers use! Do the majority who have made them use both patterns and techniques acquired from a hat making class? I am not familiar with historical Victorian millinery techniques, but a great book with clear instructions for theatrical techniques is _From the Neck Up_ by Denise Dreher. It's not too expensive, and it's fairly easy to use. Good luck, Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Viking Women's Dress - New Discoveries
On Feb 12, 2008, at 4:28 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: It might also depend on whether Viking women bound or otherwise wore undergarments that supported the breasts (something we really have no data on at present). Indeed. I notice that the reconstruction is worn over a modern bra. It's also interesting that the article says the brooches (called buckles in the article) were worn centrally over the breast (which presumably means right over the nipple--ouch), but the same sentence implies that the brooches were generally found at waist level. Perhaps they assume that all Viking women had very large and/or saggy breasts at death? To those who study the drawings of these grave finds: is it true that the brooches generally show up at waist level rather than farther up the torso? I have to say I don't think I've ever seen anyone in re-enacting circles wear them as high as the collarbone (cited in the article as the location that this new theory is debunking). I also wonder about Larsson's assertion that what was thought to be the front of the garment was actually the back. I know that archeology is complicated and that the passage of time obscures many things and that fabric is often ignored during excavation, making it difficult to determine where things were later on, but still... Very interesting topic! Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Viking Women's Dress - New Discoveries
Do you mean that the collarbone-location style referred to in the article is more like a peplos? Were these large brooches worn with those? The people I mentioned that I've seen were wearing dresses with straps and the brooches somewhere between the collarbone and the nipple. Thanks, Melanie On Feb 12, 2008, at 5:55 PM, otsisto wrote: That is more of a Celtic and Roman style with tubular apron and no straps. -Original Message- I have to say I don't think I've ever seen anyone in re-enacting circles wear them as high as the collarbone (cited in the article as the location that this new theory is debunking). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] seeking 15th-16th c. Portuguese Naval Officers uniforms
I would be very surprised if there were actually uniforms at that time. Most formal military uniforms started in the 18th century AFAIK. If you're interested in what Portuguese people wore to sail ships, there are some interesting images created by Japanese artists when the Portuguese got to Japan in the late 16th. If you're interested in that, let me know and I'll try to figure out where the info is. Melanie Schuessler On Jan 9, 2008, at 4:12 PM, Cynthia J Ley wrote: Images, possible sources for patterns--anything would be very helpful! Much thanks, Arlys ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Uniquely You dressform - how to remodel?
If you can't squash it sufficiently by taking in the fabric cover, take an electric knife to the foam itself and carve off the extra bits. Be prepared for a huge mess, but electric knives are generally the best thing for cutting foam rubber. Good luck, Melanie Schuessler On Dec 21, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Mary wrote: All the posts recently about dress forms, and specifically the Uniquely You, has prompted me to ask: How do I give one breast reduction surgery? I bought a petite sized one to make ballet costumes for my daughter (and other dancers), but her bust is definitely smaller -- and less pointy -- than the dress form's bust. I haven't got a clue how to reduce the size without giving it a mastectomy! Any suggestions? I assume that others have had to do this too We have been using the dress form, but it is slightly useless when nothing closes in front/back and hems end up too high in front!! LOL ~mary Proud member of an A cup family I've abandoned my search for truth, and now I'm just looking for a good fantasy. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elisabeth: The golden age
I haven't seen the movie yet, but just from looking at the stills... what is it with the fountains of feathers jetting straight up from the top of her head? http://www.costumersguide.com/elizabeth2/red4.jpg http://www.costumersguide.com/elizabeth2/white27.jpg and especially http://www.costumersguide.com/elizabeth2/gold2.jpg which moves straight past queen and right into drag queen. I see numerous other creatively-interpreted details in the stills, but no one expected the costumes in this movie to be accurate to the period. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's wearing?
I'm making one of these: http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/image.mhtml?image_id=48 But it's not nearly so fancy on the kirtle and has no spangles on the ruffs. The kirtle is of red and dull gold silk damask, and the gown is of deep red silk velvet. The partlet, sleeves, and gown lining are a white silk with sheer and flowered satin stripes. I have a French hood, but I might make a hat to wear with it instead. This is a style that was almost completely confined to 1572 and 1573. I've found about seven or eight portraits total that depict it. Someday the new outfit will make it to the website, but don't hold your breath. The only person who takes decent pictures of me lives halfway across the country, so updates are infrequent! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]sewing needle breakage
On Nov 30, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: I use milliners' straws sizes 8, 9, or 10 depending on what I'm sewing I love size 9 milliner's needles. It's true that they're not right for everything, but for most things they're great--very thin and long enough that I don't cramp my fingers trying to hold onto them. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] history of nordic costume in 16th century.
Thanks, Bjarne! That's nifty. Melanie On Nov 2, 2007, at 10:07 AM, Leif og Bjarne Drews wrote: Hi, Although it is in danish, lots of the sites has illustrations. The danish book Dagligtliv i Norden i det 16. århundrede by Troels Lund, has ben published to the internet. It is several thick books. The book about costume is here: http://runeberg.org/dagligt/4/ Manny manny interresting illustrations. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Book: NESAT 9 is out!
It does! Thanks so much, Melanie On Oct 23, 2007, at 11:19 PM, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: I haven't found a full list but these are in it: ... Hope this helps, Beth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Book: NESAT 9 is out!
Is there a table of contents somewhere online? Thanks, Melanie Schuessler On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: I know that a few of you are interested in the NESAT (Northern European Society for Archaeological Textiles) Volume 9 is now available for order. http://www.archeotex.ch/aktuell.html I have ordered mine from the Swiss online bookseller.. but given the way the post usually works, you will probably get yours before I do. The price is 48 CHF (Swiss Francs) plus shipping. Beth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fwd: Tudor costume and effigies database update
Begin forwarded message: From: Jane Malcolm-Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: October 22, 2007 3:26:33 PM GMT-04:00 To: Effigies2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: COSTUMER'S INFO: Tudor costume and effigies database update Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am pleased to announce the addition of new effigies to the Costume Research Image Library (CRIL) at a new, user-friendly web address: www.tudoreffigies.co.uk. Please visit, take a good look at the 36 new effigies (all of which are in Sussex churches) and do send me feedback. I would like to know: why are the effigies interesting to you, how you will use the information they provide, and how can the database be improved? If you are in touch with other people who would like to know about the Tudor effigies available online, please pass on this message. If you manage a links page for a relevant website, please add www.tudoreffigies.co.uk to it. Thanks for your interest and, to previous database users, thanks very much for your patience while the address change and upgrade have been happening! A third phase of research in Essex is underway (thanks to the Pasold Research Fund). Your comments help the project progress and provide sound evidence for future grant applications. The research centre at Winchester School of Art is coming to an end after five successful years. This means that the database needs new funding or rehoming! Regards, Jane M-D (Dr Jane Malcolm-Davies) [EMAIL PROTECTED] . __,_._,___ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Interesting 1890s Group Photo
On Oct 21, 2007, at 2:00 AM, Penny Ladnier wrote: The two men displaying the papers is driving my son crazy. He said that the papers contain a photo with writing underneath it. I have a photo of my great-grandmother and several other ladies from about 1897. In it, my g-gma is holding a photograph of her two young children. I don't know why these seven or eight ladies decided to have their picture taken together in their good dresses or why she's holding the photo. I don't believe that any of the other ladies are related to my family, and both children were alive at that time. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s mens' patterns
On Oct 11, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Barbara -_- M aren wrote: 1. Hill and Bucknell, The Evolution of Fashion, Pub. B.T.Batsford. I would recommend that you do not use this book for patterns. Not only are the patterns sketchy, they're sometimes completely wrong. You'll need FAR more and better information than you can get from this book to make men's clothing from the 19th century. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
For finding books online, also try http://used.addall.com/ http://www.addall.com/ http://www.bookfinder.com/ These are also meta-searches that trawl through lots of peoples' inventories. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
Interesting. I've had that happen on both, and I would think the incidence would be the same for both, as they're both simply searching through other peoples' inventories. I don't think addall or abebooks has any control over whether people actually have the books they're listing. It's a risk I'm happy to take, as these services make it so much easier, in general, to find the OOP books I always seem to be seeking. Melanie Schuessler On Oct 7, 2007, at 5:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/7/2007 4:44:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://used.addall.com/ http://www.addall.com/ I've had several disappointments with addall. Got all excited and then the book wasn't available after all. Never had that happen using abe. Ann Wass ** See what's new at http:// www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] German gown damask
On Oct 6, 2007, at 6:13 AM, Beteena Paradise wrote: The yellow looks like a damask to my eyes. Do you think it is? Or is it embroidery? Stamped velvelt? If I do it in a decent weight damask (I already have a nice golden yellow cotton damask), do you think that a silk velvet would have enough body to it to work right with the damask? Or would something else work better? The yellow could also be a figured cloth-of-gold. Silk velvet (or what's called silk velvet today) is too limp to behave well in this context, but it's possible that you could underline it with something to stiffen it up. It would be tricky to control the layers, since the velvet will want to crawl out the door when you try to sew it. If you do want to try this, I'd recommend first hand-basting the velvet to the underlining along all of the stitching lines, then hand- basting the underlined pieces to the rest before you sew it on the machine. Even better would be hand-sewing the whole thing, as you can control it much more easily that way. Best would be padstitching the velvet to the underlining, then hand-sewing the whole thing...how much time have you got?? Good luck, Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan Dressing Jackets
There's a black and white picture of this in George Wingfield Digby's _Elizabethan Embroidery_. It's plate 22B. The jacket or doublet illustrated on Pl. 22B was given to the Boston Museum of Fine Arts by Elizabeth Day McCormick. It comes from Kimberley in Norfolk where Queen Elizabeth stayed in August 1578 with Sir Roger Woodhouse (who was knighted at the time) on her way from Blickling to Cambridge. ... It is embroidered in gold and silver with spangles and is trimmed with gold lace. The design of daffodils is very unusual and it is in brilliant condition. Remodelled in James I's reign, it has recently been restored to original form. (p. 84) If the picture shown in this book was taken after it was restored to its original form, I'm very dubious that it's as early as 1578. It looks very like all the other 1605+ jackets with the little hip godets, etc. Plate 22A is also purportedly associated with Queen Elizabeth, though the styling is a bit odd. It's a cloth-of-silver bodice with relatively narrow sleeves and a V in the neckline. Pl. 22A shows the famous Devereux heirloom belonging to Viscount Hereford. This bodice with sleeves is extremely richly embroidered on a silver ground, the floral pattern being entirely worked in gold and silver thread and silks, mostly in tent, gobelin, dot, buttonhole, and detached buttonhole stitches. It is the kind of embroidery which was used for the finest of the sweet bags, as we have already seen, and as a garment to wear, this bodice seems almost unbelievably ornate. The design is made up of roses, peascods (showing their seeds), forget-me-nots, tulips, cornflowers, columbine, iris, and pansy, the flowers all intermingled with snakes, birds, caterpillars and butterflies. The floral tendrils are worked as gold chains in chain stitch with a certain amount of gold bullion and gold wire. Tradition relates that when the Earl of Essex was in the Tower awaiting execution this bodice was sent by his mother, the Countess of Leicester, to the Queen. (p. 83) Melanie Schuessler On Sep 21, 2007, at 6:28 PM, Dawn wrote: Alexandria Doyle wrote: Is that an embroidered jacket or one of the knit ones? The Boston MFA seems to have several in their collection. I'd love for this one you mention to have been an earlier version, perhaps something Elizabeth might have worn as a child or young princess, just so I can see if there was a progress in style or cut. (sigh) Wishful thinking, that's all I remember it being white linen, woven and not knit. It was a late 1500's style, I don't remember too much else about it, other than all the metallic embroidery. There may have been metal lace. I've been searching the MFA website, but have not found it in the online collection yet. I'm surprised Janet Arnold didn't find it when doing her book on Elizabeth's clothing. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: Elizabethan Dressing Jackets
Eva, You are correct! I didn't remember that one, but there it is. And a pattern as well with some interesting notes on construction. Good catch, Melanie On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:23 AM, Eva Andersson wrote: However, one of the pieces they reference might be. There's an embroidered jacket in the Boston MFA, done in silver and gold thread instead of multicolored, believed to have belonged to Elizabeth I. I remember seeing it several times when I was a student there. Unfortunately, I have never found a picture of it, in any book or online, since. I wonder if it is even still on display, given that it was 20 years ago. It was exquisite, and so tiny, looked like it was made for a 12 year old girl. Dawn I'm quite positive that one is shown in Blanche Payne's: History of Costume from 1965. Including a pattern diagram. But I may be remembering totally wrong of course. /Eva ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] French hood for Elizabeth I
Definitely black. In looking at hundreds of portraits and text references from the 16th c., I came across only a very very few images and references to hoods of another color. The bags that Kimiko mentioned are only seen on portraits of girls, and generally in France. The young Elizabeth would have been wearing a black velvet or silk hood, possibly with sewn-down knife pleats down the back. The fall of the hood should be flat, narrow (the width of the head), and rounded at the bottom. Many theatrical patterns have a flared veil in the back in the shape of a half-circle or similar, but there is no evidence for this shape that I've found. As Kimiko suggests, velvet may not work well in doll scale, so a nice silk or silk-like fabric (like taffeta) might serve you better. Melanie Schuessler On Sep 21, 2007, at 3:27 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: I am continuing my retirement by creating historical costumes in minature for a standing line of willing, naked dolls. Queen Maude (of Norway circa1906-1938) can bee seen in Doll Craft/Costuming, issue for November 2007, along with Queen MarieAntoinette. Have also been having a wonderful time recreating for Maude from the new Poiret catalogue from the Met. (Also the Wardrobe of Queen Maude of Norway) The latest project is trying to evoke the Holbein portrait of Elizabeth I,( Kestner Gibson Girl Repro). All goes well; have been leaning heavily on Hunnisett for the gown;(magically, the patterns of her books are just the size for the doll, so I only need to calculate skirt yardage.) But for the French hood...Would the veil on the back have been Black or would there have been another color suggested for a young girlof 13 yrs.? And, would this have been velvet as is suggested as the right fabric for the period? Next in line is Eleanor of Toledo. Got a marvelous fabric for the Branzino portrait on line last week. I will be using a lovely parian repro of the Grape Lady for that model. Her face and stance is so placid and partrician! Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
