Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
In cae1xxdgv1y_guhppcx5agfuy8edjqac18wby-o3o+vktzq8...@mail.gmail.com, on 09/30/2013 at 09:10 AM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com said: Moreover, I have never met a highly competent z/OS or z/VM systems programmer who was willing to devote herself or himself exclusively to security for a single shop. Probably due to corporate culture and management issues. I can see such a position being desirable in a mythological shop where the staff has made security a priority and welcomes assistance from a dedicated security group. At a more likely shop where the staff views security as a bureaucratic burden dumped on them, such a position would carry more hostility and stress than most would care for. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
In cajtoo5_ws5e7yu3assyudh+3hpfigfiqpeghhxx6c4chkcy...@mail.gmail.com, on 09/28/2013 at 10:40 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com said: I know in the Banking Industry, you have to take one whole week of vacation sometime during the year. What happens if they won't approve leave for the weeks that you want to take? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
Depends on the particular branch, but I assume seniority would decide who gets priority, and the boss would make the final decision. On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net wrote: In cajtoo5_ws5e7yu3assyudh+3hpfigfiqpeghhxx6c4chkcy...@mail.gmail.com, on 09/28/2013 at 10:40 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com said: I know in the Banking Industry, you have to take one whole week of vacation sometime during the year. What happens if they won't approve leave for the weeks that you want to take? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. My now extended observation of it in several mainframe shops has not, however, been encouraging. Exclusive preoccupation with security seems to lead ineluctably to rigid, rote, highly standardized measures that make systems increasingly awkward and unworkable without in fact making them more secure. It must be conceded that many of these deficiencies are not specific to security. Suboptimizing, a department's pursuit of its own objectives at the expense of those of the organization it serves, is ubiquitous. There is another problem too, and it is a harder to talk about politely. I have never met a fulltime computer-security person for a mainframe shop who really knew much about the operating system he or she was attempting to defend. Moreover, I have never met a highly competent z/OS or z/VM systems programmer who was willing to devote herself or himself exclusively to security for a single shop. There is a severe, all but sui generis paucity of both talent and long experience with the target operating system among these security people; and it is not at all clear how these deficiencies can be remedied. Part-time attention to security by a few talented, appropriately experienced people is all but certain to be much more effective than that given to it by a much larger group of dedicated mediocrities; but this notion is unpalatable to many CIOs for the obvious reason. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
I am a full-time mainframe (RACF) security engineer (I hate that term...) and have been for almost nine years. Prior to that, I was a zOS (MFT, SVS, MVS, OS390, XA, ESA, etc.) systems programmer for approximately 30 years (for two very large companies that each have a 3-letter name). IHMO, I was/am considered to be very good at both jobs. The big difference was changing from a 60- to 80- hour work week to a 40-hour one Amazing how one adapts when outsourcing and resource actions come into play. Randy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:10 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. My now extended observation of it in several mainframe shops has not, however, been encouraging. Exclusive preoccupation with security seems to lead ineluctably to rigid, rote, highly standardized measures that make systems increasingly awkward and unworkable without in fact making them more secure. It must be conceded that many of these deficiencies are not specific to security. Suboptimizing, a department's pursuit of its own objectives at the expense of those of the organization it serves, is ubiquitous. There is another problem too, and it is a harder to talk about politely. I have never met a fulltime computer-security person for a mainframe shop who really knew much about the operating system he or she was attempting to defend. Moreover, I have never met a highly competent z/OS or z/VM systems programmer who was willing to devote herself or himself exclusively to security for a single shop. There is a severe, all but sui generis paucity of both talent and long experience with the target operating system among these security people; and it is not at all clear how these deficiencies can be remedied. Part-time attention to security by a few talented, appropriately experienced people is all but certain to be much more effective than that given to it by a much larger group of dedicated mediocrities; but this notion is unpalatable to many CIOs for the obvious reason. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:10:00 -0400, John Gilmore wrote: I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. In fact, the rationale of dissolving collusions was suggested to me decades ago, by someone unfamiliar with IT, in the context of physical plant security; preventing pilfering of physical assets. (Among the obvious targets are model shops; one can arrange to divert *anything* from a model shop. I recall a case locally where an employee of a model shop at a highly secure Federal installation had diverted enough materials to build a spiral stairway in his house worth $15K: http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/06/us/gift-orders-filled-at-top-secret-shop-of-colorado-nuclear-weapon-plant.html?pagewanted=allsrc=pm But no maple syrup.) But the principle is the same as staggering vacations in financial institutions to dissolve collusions. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
I do not know Randall Gross personally, and it was anyway no part of my intent to impugn the competence of any particular mainframe security specialist. I indeed made it clear that I judge that the effectiveness of such groups varies widely. I am nevertheless unrepentent about my view that most of these groups are no great shakes technically, bureaucratically orient[at]ed, and ineffective. I am not sure just how 'staggering vacations in financial institutions' dissolves collusions. It may well prevent them during the interval when either of, say, two colluders is vacationing; but there would still be ample opportunity for collusive misbehavior during the the nine months (assuming six-week non-overlapping vacations for each of two colluders) when both would be present. Indeed, the historical rationale for these longish bank-officer vacations|holidays has been that they provided opportunities for the detection of fraud, not that they prevented it; and for this purpose simultaneous vacations for two colluding officers would be more effective. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
John, Actually, I do agree with you, and no offense was taken. \ Interestingly enough, when I was interviewing here, it was for a sysprog opening. After being interviewd by the sysprog manager and the VP of operations, I had a final interview with the CIO. The CIO noticed on my resume that I had some experience in the RACF arena (can you say GSD-331); he asked if I would be interested in a RACF job for the same pay - he felt that his security organizaion needed more technical mainframe knowledge - someone who could intelligently interface with the sysprogs and rest of the data center. The rest is history. Our CIO is not your run-of the-mill executive - he started professional life as an operator on a mainframe. Randy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 10:43 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) I do not know Randall Gross personally, and it was anyway no part of my intent to impugn the competence of any particular mainframe security specialist. I indeed made it clear that I judge that the effectiveness of such groups varies widely. I am nevertheless unrepentent about my view that most of these groups are no great shakes technically, bureaucratically orient[at]ed, and ineffective. I am not sure just how 'staggering vacations in financial institutions' dissolves collusions. It may well prevent them during the interval when either of, say, two colluders is vacationing; but there would still be ample opportunity for collusive misbehavior during the the nine months (assuming six-week non-overlapping vacations for each of two colluders) when both would be present. Indeed, the historical rationale for these longish bank-officer vacations|holidays has been that they provided opportunities for the detection of fraud, not that they prevented it; and for this purpose simultaneous vacations for two colluding officers would be more effective. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
John Gilmore wrote: I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. True. Exclusive preoccupation with security seems to lead ineluctably to rigid, rote, highly standardized measures that make systems increasingly awkward and unworkable without in fact making them more secure. Aka 'red tape'. I hate it. My opinion. I have never met a fulltime computer-security person for a mainframe shop who really knew much about the operating system he or she was attempting to defend. Moreover, I have never met a highly competent z/OS or z/VM systems programmer who was willing to devote herself or himself exclusively to security for a single shop. I have started as junior programmer, worked my way up to be a fulltime MVS/XA, OS/390 system programmer responsible for the operating system. I was also a storage admin amongst other duties like assisting users with languages including Assembler. Now, I'm exclusive on RACF and security, while still assisting other teams on as needed base. Granted, you have never met me personally ( good thing? ;-D hehehe ), but I'm sure many IBM-MAIN members have done multiple roles and excelled in whatever role they're fulfilling. Mind you, many IBM-MAIN members are contractors, just like you if I remember correctly. You take up what is given to you. And fix whatever problem there are including security. But you forget about security of the network too. You need security on M/F and also on network, thus 2 teams doing their own work. But for myself, I have NEVER met a network person who is ONLY with security. Did you met such a [network] person? There is a severe, all but sui generis paucity of both talent and long experience with the target operating system among these security people; and it is not at all clear how these deficiencies can be remedied. True. Remedies can only be done with buy-in of the management of the data centre. Part-time attention to security by a few talented, appropriately experienced people is all but certain to be much more effective than that given to it by a much larger group of dedicated mediocrities; but this notion is unpalatable to many CIOs for the obvious reason. Yes! Here I agree with you! You are a sharp observer! ;-) Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
John: That's typical for my experience in large shops. Unfortunately I think people in large environments get more specialized. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:10 AM Subject: Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. My now extended observation of it in several mainframe shops has not, however, been encouraging. Exclusive preoccupation with security seems to lead ineluctably to rigid, rote, highly standardized measures that make systems increasingly awkward and unworkable without in fact making them more secure. It must be conceded that many of these deficiencies are not specific to security. Suboptimizing, a department's pursuit of its own objectives at the expense of those of the organization it serves, is ubiquitous. There is another problem too, and it is a harder to talk about politely. I have never met a fulltime computer-security person for a mainframe shop who really knew much about the operating system he or she was attempting to defend. Moreover, I have never met a highly competent z/OS or z/VM systems programmer who was willing to devote herself or himself exclusively to security for a single shop. There is a severe, all but sui generis paucity of both talent and long experience with the target operating system among these security people; and it is not at all clear how these deficiencies can be remedied. Part-time attention to security by a few talented, appropriately experienced people is all but certain to be much more effective than that given to it by a much larger group of dedicated mediocrities; but this notion is unpalatable to many CIOs for the obvious reason. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
On 30 September 2013 10:43, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com wrote: I am not sure just how 'staggering vacations in financial institutions' dissolves collusions. It may well prevent them during the interval when either of, say, two colluders is vacationing; but there would still be ample opportunity for collusive misbehavior during the the nine months (assuming six-week non-overlapping vacations for each of two colluders) when both would be present. I understand that historically, many bank frauds by insiders are unsustainable; Ponzi or kiting schemes and the like that contain the seeds of their own failure, and must collapse eventually. Requiring vacations to be taken may force the collapse and ultimately save the bank money and reputation. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
wjipho...@gmail.com writes: Only one week? that must be in the US. Here in Europe it is mostly at least 2 weeks. That requires you to document your stuff so that someone else can fix any problems that may arise with your products while your are away. Scary thought - maybe they actually can do without you after all? at least early 80s, insider fraud was most common ... even after internet and poor internet attack countermeasures ... insider fraud actually very high on the list. multi-party operations were/are countermeasure to insider fraud. collusion then is/was response by crooks. staggered vacations then are a countermeasure to collusion ... periodically mixing up those required for multi-party operations. In the past, I've had discussions with the NIST role-based-access (RBAC) guys ... that one of the objectives of RBAC is to simplify permissions for establishing multi-party operations (i.e. working out permissions so that no single person has sufficient permissions to complete operation on their own). http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/SNS/rbac/ somewhat back to early thread http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#16 Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#25 Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) in the 80s, i did one summer teaching classes and giving lectures around europe, including classes south of paris (joan of arc home town). Required French worker vacation was 5weeks but IBM gave 6weeks. That summer, France increased mandated vacation to 6weeks ... and there were various work incidents because some felt then IBM should increase its vacation to 7weeks (so IBMers would still have one week more than everybody else). I would come in an hr or two early and stay for a couple hrs after the class ... using online connection email back to the states. I then asked site manager for weekend access. He explained that the guards had filed written paper work with the government that somebody was working more than 8hrs/day ... and he had to respond with lots more gov. paperwork. He said that I could have weekend access if I really wanted ... but it would be much simpler if I just spent the weekend sight seeing. -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 09:34:41 -0400, Anne Lynn Wheeler wrote: multi-party operations were/are countermeasure to insider fraud. collusion then is/was response by crooks. staggered vacations then are a countermeasure to collusion ... periodically mixing up those required for multi-party operations. Likewise, there's a rationale for using contract security personnel rather than in-house, and periodically either rotating staff or switching security contractors. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
Mike, I remember my first consulting gig was a bank, that's also what they told me. Everyone had to take their vacation. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 28, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net wrote: In 8124033304576715.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu, on 09/26/2013 at 01:19 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za said: deleted I don't have any confirmed proof, but apparently the Japanese people are FORCED to have leave to take a break every year. I really dislike the combination of forced leave and unpaid overtime. I know many banks require people to take one whole week of vacation at a time. Makes sure other people can do your job and no funny accounting is going on. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#16 Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#25 Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#31 Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) for other drift, part of the time in Europe was talking to the French BOIS (branch office information system) group on the work to deploy vm/4300 systems into IBM branch offices, first in France and then in other parts of EMEA. old email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#email820912 From just about the beginning one of my hobbies had been supporting the HONE system (online, virtual machine based world-wide sales marketing support) from the beginning back to cp67 days when it was just in the US. Then as it was propogating clones to the rest of the world, I would be asked to do the install (a decade before BOIS, IBM EMEA hdqtrs moved from the states to Paris, and I was brought in to do the install in Paris). past posts mentioning HONE http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone vm/4341s were sort of the leading edge of both large compute farms as well as the distributed computing tsunami (both at customers and inside IBM). This is old email about AFDS initially looking at 20 distributed vm/4341s ... growing to 210: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#email790404b This is doing benchmarks for LLNL looking at getting 70 vm/4341s for compute farm http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#email790220 70 vm/4341s compute farm could be considered leading edge of GRID computing (which is also a precursor to modern cloud computing) recent posts http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#18 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#52 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#83 internal vm/4341s was also major factor in the internal networking passing 1000 nodes the summer of 1983 ... old reference to some 1983 node announcements as well as list of all corporate locations that had one or more new nodes added during 1983 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#8 other past posts mentioning internal network http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet France/EMEA BOIS pioneered the branch office distributed vm/4341 systems, and then similar program starts showing up in the states ... with the VMIC machines ... starting out for USA sales/marketing regional hdqtrs. past email mentioning vm/4300s http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#43xx as an aside, the internal network had been non-SNA until the late 80s when the communication group started generating a lot of mis-information as part of push to get the internal network converted to SNA. However, their program of mis-information wasn't just limited to the internal network ... but also extended to claims that the NSFNET backbone could run over SNA ... the NSFNET backbone is the precursor of the modern internet ... discussed in the above (and other) GRID related posts ... referencing this article Grid Computing; Hook enough computers together and what do you get? A new kind of utility that offers supercomputer processing on tap. http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/401444/grid-computing/ old email mentioning NSFNET backbone ... and working with participants leading up to NSFNET backbone http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet when i was in San Jose Research ... they use to joke that I worked 4shift weeks; ... 1st shift in san jose researach, 2nd shift in the disk engineering lab, 3rd shift in STL (now silicon valley lab) and 4th shift (weekends) up in Palo Alto at the HONE system. -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
In 6628334024699272.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu, on 09/25/2013 at 06:29 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za said: Could you please be kind to give me more search limiting arguments? The S in DSW stands for Size. I wonder if it's in the jargon file? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
In cae1xxdhzl9eanjy3fwdv8i9q8d-hncq1m5czwojgia+ekiu...@mail.gmail.com, on 09/25/2013 at 04:27 PM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com said: He has a right to post here, Like the rest of us, he has been granted the privilege of posting here; UA can extend or retract their permission whether we agree or not. None of us has a right to post here absent consent from UA. and we cannot anyway stop him from doing so without using obnoxiously repressive machinery. We can certainly configure our software to drop his posts unseen without any repressive measures. Further, forcing UA to carry traffic that they don't wish to would be oppressive. Note that I am not taking a position on whether you or UA should drop his messages, just that you and they have the right to do so should you choose. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
In 8124033304576715.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu, on 09/26/2013 at 01:19 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za said: Indeed. In a mature Data Centre, such overtime may or may not be frowned on, but you know there are exceptions and of course changes needed to be done after hours. In my experience, super long shifts are expected for emergencies, either real or simulated. In that situation, sleep deprivation will impair your judgement, which is why management should step in and order you to rest even if you think that you can keep going. Providing three hots and a cut can reduce the length of an outage. Oh, and good managers will order everybody out who is not contributing to the solution[1]; they can wait until the system is back up before doing their post mortem. Changes can be scheduled to avoid excessive overtime. Typically I've seen a 4 hour window on weekdays and a longer window on weekends, but I've never been at a shop that expected a 24-hour or longer shift for routine maintenance. I don't have any confirmed proof, but apparently the Japanese people are FORCED to have leave to take a break every year. I really dislike the combination of forced leave and unpaid overtime. There's also the question of who decides when the leave is to be taken. [1] I've seen it done, and it really speeds up problem resolution when you don't have to keep explaining what happened, what you're doing about it and when the system will be back up. Are we there yet? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
I know in the Banking Industry, you have to take one whole week of vacation sometime during the year. Makes sure other people can do you job and that no funny accounting is going on. On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net wrote: In 8124033304576715.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu, on 09/26/2013 at 01:19 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za said: Indeed. In a mature Data Centre, such overtime may or may not be frowned on, but you know there are exceptions and of course changes needed to be done after hours. In my experience, super long shifts are expected for emergencies, either real or simulated. In that situation, sleep deprivation will impair your judgement, which is why management should step in and order you to rest even if you think that you can keep going. Providing three hots and a cut can reduce the length of an outage. Oh, and good managers will order everybody out who is not contributing to the solution[1]; they can wait until the system is back up before doing their post mortem. Changes can be scheduled to avoid excessive overtime. Typically I've seen a 4 hour window on weekdays and a longer window on weekends, but I've never been at a shop that expected a 24-hour or longer shift for routine maintenance. I don't have any confirmed proof, but apparently the Japanese people are FORCED to have leave to take a break every year. I really dislike the combination of forced leave and unpaid overtime. There's also the question of who decides when the leave is to be taken. [1] I've seen it done, and it really speeds up problem resolution when you don't have to keep explaining what happened, what you're doing about it and when the system will be back up. Are we there yet? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
I'm moving to a new thread. Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: Not only in South Africa, we do 18+ in NYC too, I have occassionaly done a full night work, especially during emergencies like botched installation, upgrade or big changes. One of the things that happens as you get older is that you figure out that you are not Superman. Sour you can work 72 hours, but your error rate will go way up and you'll have to put in even more time to correct the results of your sleep deprivation. A smart boss will order you to take a sleep break. Indeed. In a mature Data Centre, such overtime may or may not be frowned on, but you know there are exceptions and of course changes needed to be done after hours. Shmuel, what you said has been confirmed by an IBM-MAIN member who said that he is posting while really needing sleep and working too many after hours. He eventually said that he has gone to sleep. And he is OLD and his health is not of the very best. I'm grateful that I can claim overtime, but that must be pre-approved with formal change procedures - Excessive overtime is frowned on because of high error and fatigue rate. In fact - the laws of work conditions have improved over the years. I don't have any confirmed proof, but apparently the Japanese people are FORCED to have leave to take a break every year. True? False? I am sure many of the IBM-MAIN members can relate to loong zz work zz hours... ;-) But if your health is suffering, you need to look at your work conditions. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Scott, Possibly because English is not my native language, but I don't see what you are referring to. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 04:00 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Kees, Everyone is referring to appropriateness Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Kees, Scott owes you an apology! :-) I believe he confused you with Kerneels (aka Anton Britz) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernooij, CP - SPLXM Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 2:43 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Scott, Possibly because English is not my native language, but I don't see what you are referring to. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 04:00 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Kees, Everyone is referring to appropriateness Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Scott/Kees/Jim/Superman/Tarzan and Elvis, It's OK, you can call me anything on any given Wednesday because : We do not wet our panties or get turned up stomach when we get involved in any competition.. or call for a referee when we get some pee on our leg while standing next to peeing contest because as Arnie called it.. they teach us, NOT to be GIRLIE men .. at any stage. Interesting article this morning about the Nazis.. as in the NAZI's are coming to get us again.. and the right-wing echo chamber breeds extremism, intimidates Republican moderates and misleads people into thinking that their worldview is broadly shared http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/opinion/kristof-suffocating-echo-chamber.html?hp Kerneels (aka Tarzan) On 9/26/2013 3:41 AM, Richards, Robert B. wrote: Kees, Scott owes you an apology! :-) I believe he confused you with Kerneels (aka Anton Britz) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Get a life Abe. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Robert, Your right, sorry Kees Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 26, 2013, at 5:41 AM, Richards, Robert B. robert.richa...@opm.gov wrote: Kees, Scott owes you an apology! :-) I believe he confused you with Kerneels (aka Anton Britz) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernooij, CP - SPLXM Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 2:43 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Scott, Possibly because English is not my native language, but I don't see what you are referring to. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 04:00 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Kees, Everyone is referring to appropriateness Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Tarzan, We Irish can out crazy you dude ...lol Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 26, 2013, at 6:53 AM, AbsKerneels kerne...@absoftwareconsultants.com wrote: Scott/Kees/Jim/Superman/Tarzan and Elvis, It's OK, you can call me anything on any given Wednesday because : We do not wet our panties or get turned up stomach when we get involved in any competition.. or call for a referee when we get some pee on our leg while standing next to peeing contest because as Arnie called it.. they teach us, NOT to be GIRLIE men .. at any stage. Interesting article this morning about the Nazis.. as in the NAZI's are coming to get us again.. and the right-wing echo chamber breeds extremism, intimidates Republican moderates and misleads people into thinking that their worldview is broadly shared http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/opinion/kristof-suffocating-echo-chamber.html?hp Kerneels (aka Tarzan) On 9/26/2013 3:41 AM, Richards, Robert B. wrote: Kees, Scott owes you an apology! :-) I believe he confused you with Kerneels (aka Anton Britz) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
Elardus, Absolutely, life is short, there also is a balance with work and life Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:19 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za wrote: I'm moving to a new thread. Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: Not only in South Africa, we do 18+ in NYC too, I have occassionaly done a full night work, especially during emergencies like botched installation, upgrade or big changes. One of the things that happens as you get older is that you figure out that you are not Superman. Sour you can work 72 hours, but your error rate will go way up and you'll have to put in even more time to correct the results of your sleep deprivation. A smart boss will order you to take a sleep break. Indeed. In a mature Data Centre, such overtime may or may not be frowned on, but you know there are exceptions and of course changes needed to be done after hours. Shmuel, what you said has been confirmed by an IBM-MAIN member who said that he is posting while really needing sleep and working too many after hours. He eventually said that he has gone to sleep. And he is OLD and his health is not of the very best. I'm grateful that I can claim overtime, but that must be pre-approved with formal change procedures - Excessive overtime is frowned on because of high error and fatigue rate. In fact - the laws of work conditions have improved over the years. I don't have any confirmed proof, but apparently the Japanese people are FORCED to have leave to take a break every year. True? False? I am sure many of the IBM-MAIN members can relate to loong zz work zz hours... ;-) But if your health is suffering, you need to look at your work conditions. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za (Elardus Engelbrecht) writes: I have occassionaly done a full night work, especially during emergencies like botched installation, upgrade or big changes. as undergraduate in the 60s, the univ would shutdown the datacenter from 8am sat until 8am monday ... and let me have the whole place to myself ... initially 709/1401 ... and in transition to 360, the 1401 was replaced by 360/30 ... and then both 709 and 360/30 replaced by 360/67 (mostly ran as 360/65). after having been up for 48hrs, it was sometimes difficult to deal with monday classes. old post with Real Programmers tome http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#39 one of the items: Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers are around at 9am, it's because they were up all night. ... snip ... mentions getting complaints about tracking mud in halls of ibm san jose research (from cleats in hiking boots) ... path that I walked to work turned to mud when it rained. slightly different Real Programmers version http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#31 as bonus, also has Real Software Engineers. past post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#18 while the 360/67 mostly ran as 360/65, I did get to play a little with cp67 on the weekend ... has part of share presentation that I did fall of '68 ... references some performance measures from having re-written a lot of the cp67 kernel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP/CMS The above mentions initial cp67 release May 1968 ... however, three people from the science center came out last week of jan1968 to install cp67 at the univ ... and then I was invited to spring 1968 share meeting in houston for announcement ... I had already started to rewrite a lot of the code by that time. I also took apart os/360 stage2 sysgen and re-arranged order of all the cards to carefully place datasets and pds members for optimal arm seek motion (pds member ordering also minimized multi-track pds directory search) ... getting almost three times throughput improvement for univ. student job workload. -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
Lynn, Yep I agree worked with some oriental programs, who slept under their desks..these guys were unbelievably good programmers..the group I worked with wasn't quite that bad, no in a negative sense. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 26, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Anne Lynn Wheeler l...@garlic.com wrote: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za (Elardus Engelbrecht) writes: I have occassionaly done a full night work, especially during emergencies like botched installation, upgrade or big changes. as undergraduate in the 60s, the univ would shutdown the datacenter from 8am sat until 8am monday ... and let me have the whole place to myself ... initially 709/1401 ... and in transition to 360, the 1401 was replaced by 360/30 ... and then both 709 and 360/30 replaced by 360/67 (mostly ran as 360/65). after having been up for 48hrs, it was sometimes difficult to deal with monday classes. old post with Real Programmers tome http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#39 one of the items: Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers are around at 9am, it's because they were up all night. ... snip ... mentions getting complaints about tracking mud in halls of ibm san jose research (from cleats in hiking boots) ... path that I walked to work turned to mud when it rained. slightly different Real Programmers version http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#31 as bonus, also has Real Software Engineers. past post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#18 while the 360/67 mostly ran as 360/65, I did get to play a little with cp67 on the weekend ... has part of share presentation that I did fall of '68 ... references some performance measures from having re-written a lot of the cp67 kernel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP/CMS The above mentions initial cp67 release May 1968 ... however, three people from the science center came out last week of jan1968 to install cp67 at the univ ... and then I was invited to spring 1968 share meeting in houston for announcement ... I had already started to rewrite a lot of the code by that time. I also took apart os/360 stage2 sysgen and re-arranged order of all the cards to carefully place datasets and pds members for optimal arm seek motion (pds member ordering also minimized multi-track pds directory search) ... getting almost three times throughput improvement for univ. student job workload. -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
On 9/25/2013 5:12 AM, Richard Pinion wrote: Posts from AbsKerneels reminds me of the movie title One fly over the cuckoos nest. LOL! That's because AbsKerneels is none other than Anton Britz! He changed his identity because so many people blocked his previous email address(es). :D -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Hi, Actually , my real name is Mohammed and Ed does not like me because the Fox channel told him, we are going to take over the world.. with or without a pissing contest.. It's not my fault that his girlfriend preferred people with a darker skin color or somebody that looks like an Arab and can really get excited about LIFE.. as if they are enjoying the RIDE : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9oIDLjbwgI Kerneels On 9/25/2013 1:09 PM, Ed Jaffe wrote: On 9/25/2013 5:12 AM, Richard Pinion wrote: Posts from AbsKerneels reminds me of the movie title One fly over the cuckoos nest. LOL! That's because AbsKerneels is none other than Anton Britz! He changed his identity because so many people blocked his previous email address(es). :D -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Caught it after about the second post. Hasn't changed his meds though. Just an FYI this is a TECHNICAL List! While we all have political, religious, economic values and beliefs there are other list that can accommodate those discussions. While I'm guilty of drifting due to aging at least keep it on the mainframe scenario. Or we can talk about program drum cards on the 029vbg...I actually kept a card saw for demo purposes and found out it worked great on dot matrix printers. It might still be in a box somewhere... In a message dated 09/25/13 14:09:13 Central Daylight Time, edja...@phoenixsoftware.com writes: He changed his identity because so many people blocked his previous email address(es). :D -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Under all of his pseudonyms this fellow is a bigot. He has a right to post here, and we cannot anyway stop him from doing so without using obnoxiously repressive machinery. Let's not, however, encourage him by responding to his offensive posts. Blowing the gaff on his new identities as he assumes them, as EJ just did, is also an excellent idea. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
I can, barely, stomach the political nastiness. But the personal attack of the last message got the email address placed on the gmail autodelete filter. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:22 PM, efinnell15 efinnel...@aol.com wrote: Caught it after about the second post. Hasn't changed his meds though. Just an FYI this is a TECHNICAL List! While we all have political, religious, economic values and beliefs there are other list that can accommodate those discussions. While I'm guilty of drifting due to aging at least keep it on the mainframe scenario. Or we can talk about program drum cards on the 029vbg...I actually kept a card saw for demo purposes and found out it worked great on dot matrix printers. It might still be in a box somewhere... In a message dated 09/25/13 14:09:13 Central Daylight Time, edja...@phoenixsoftware.com writes: He changed his identity because so many people blocked his previous email address(es). :D -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- I have _not_ lost my mind! It is backed up on a flash drive somewhere. Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Humor has its benefits. I have followed this thread and been informed and sometimes LOL. Abs has not only walked over the line of reasonableness, he has run right over it with a steamroller. He needs to go someplace else with any comments that come close to what he said, even if it was meant in jest. I am not easily offended, but that turned my stomach. Chris Blaicher Principal Software Engineer, Software Development Syncsort Incorporated 50 Tice Boulevard, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677 P: 201-930-8260 | M: 512-627-3803 E: cblaic...@syncsort.com ATTENTION: - The information contained in this message (including any files transmitted with this message) may contain proprietary, trade secret or other confidential and/or legally privileged information. Any pricing information contained in this message or in any files transmitted with this message is always confidential and cannot be shared with any third parties without prior written approval from Syncsort. This message is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and/or Syncsort and destroy all copies of this message in your possession, custody or control. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Hi Chris, I do apologize that this pissing contest turned your stomach because with all due respect to these intelligent contributors around us, I did not know we have rules in a pissing contest or I have never heard of any ever ex. a) no pissing on anybodies propaganda TV/Newspaper b) no retaliation if somebody tries to piss down your neck or call you names ex. BIGOT c) No reference to the color of anybodies skin, during the pissing contest d) the pissing has to relate to an IBM issue... as if this was a requirement in the beginning of the Pissing contest Question: Can we set the rules BEFORE we decided to PISS on somebodies flowers/dog/back yard/car/wife or do we only apply rules when some of the pissing runs down your leg ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uz17TDWQlc Kerneels On 9/25/2013 2:49 PM, Blaicher, Christopher Y. wrote: Humor has its benefits. I have followed this thread and been informed and sometimes LOL. Abs has not only walked over the line of reasonableness, he has run right over it with a steamroller. He needs to go someplace else with any comments that come close to what he said, even if it was meant in jest. I am not easily offended, but that turned my stomach. Chris Blaicher Principal Software Engineer, Software Development Syncsort Incorporated 50 Tice Boulevard, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677 P: 201-930-8260 | M: 512-627-3803 E: cblaic...@syncsort.com ATTENTION: - The information contained in this message (including any files transmitted with this message) may contain proprietary, trade secret or other confidential and/or legally privileged information. Any pricing information contained in this message or in any files transmitted with this message is always confidential and cannot be shared with any third parties without prior written approval from Syncsort. This message is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and/or Syncsort and destroy all copies of this message in your possession, custody or control. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
In acdef067-c806-438e-b6cb-0708b34f3...@yahoo.com, on 09/25/2013 at 08:56 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com said: Not only in South Africa, we do 18+ in NYC too, One of the things that happens as you get older is that you figure out that you are not Superman. Sour you can work 72 hours, but your error rate will go way up and you'll have to put in even more time to correct the results of your sleep deprivation. A smart boss will order you to take a sleep break. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
In 6af0b109b5fc0b41878c42c86444164c4b3c4...@ch1prd0310mb367.namprd03.prod.outlook.com, on 09/23/2013 at 03:25 PM, Taylor, Scott scott.tay...@autozone.com said: Only on this listserv can this particular topic become a thread... Usenet. They don't really have flames on Usenet. They think they do, but that's only because they've never seen the real thing. Back in the old days, before FIDO, when men were men and sheep were scared, there were some real flames. Google for DSW (not the shoe store). -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
I hear Archie Bunker singing those were the days. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:51 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) In 6af0b109b5fc0b41878c42c86444164c4b3c4...@ch1prd0310mb367.namprd03.prod. outlook.com, on 09/23/2013 at 03:25 PM, Taylor, Scott scott.tay...@autozone.com said: Only on this listserv can this particular topic become a thread... Usenet. They don't really have flames on Usenet. They think they do, but that's only because they've never seen the real thing. Back in the old days, before FIDO, when men were men and sheep were scared, there were some real flames. Google for DSW (not the shoe store). -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: Google for DSW (not the shoe store). 'Durban Solid Waste' or 'Deutsche Stiftung Weltbevoelkerung' amongst 13,6 million Google hits? :-) H... :-D :-D :-D I'm getting too many stock related hits for that shoe shop and that shop itself... Could you please be kind to give me more search limiting arguments? Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
What ? Flaming contest with a bunch of old farts on IBM-MAIN ? NO.. that is impossible. These days.. it's more a : This is the BIG ONE... I have never had pain like this before.. Elizabeth, I am coming honey , to join you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stdi-1tIUhM Kerneels Translation for people outside the USA : Old Farts : People in the USA that still think they are 21 , can work 18 hours a day, go home , make love, before falling a sleep for 3 hours , just to rush back to work , to make sure all the production systems are up and running on a Monday morning On 9/25/2013 4:57 AM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: I hear Archie Bunker singing those were the days. Kees. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Kerneels wrote: Old Farts : People in the USA that still think they are 21 , can work 18 hours a day, go home , make love, before falling a sleep for 3 hours , just to rush back to work , to make sure all the production systems are up and running on a Monday morning From below URLs: “He apparently pulled eight all-nighters in two weeks. They get you working crazy hours and maybe it was just too much for him in the end,” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/slavery-in-the-city-death-of-21yearold-intern-moritz-erhardt-at-merrill-lynch-sparks-furore-over-long-hours-and-macho-culture-at-banks-8775917.html or (more or less same content) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/10255199/Bank-intern-who-died-after-working-for-72-hours-felt-pressure-to-excel.html Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 1:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: Google for DSW (not the shoe store). 'Durban Solid Waste' or 'Deutsche Stiftung Weltbevoelkerung' amongst 13,6 million Google hits? :-) H... :-D :-D :-D I'm getting too many stock related hits for that shoe shop and that shop itself... Could you please be kind to give me more search limiting arguments? Maybe Definition of Solid Waste (DSW) Rulemakings for RCRA Hazardous Waste Regulations: http://www.epa.gov/osw/hazard/dsw/rulemaking.htm ? :) Best Regards Thomas Berg ___ Thomas Berg Specialist zOS\RQM\IT Delivery SWEDBANK AB (Publ) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Elardus, TRUE story.. and this occurred at YOUR installation in the late 70's : We lost the main IMS database , with all the information of all the people that needed to klaar out.. .or move on , with their normal lives.. because they forced some of us, to donate two years of our lives to military service or to defend our country because the communists was about to invade or take over.. or so we were told, on a daily/weekly basis. The DBA manager at the time ? Ray Russel Why did we lose the Database ? Because of pointer errors and none of the database backups were actually working. They ran daily/weekly/monthly but nobody actually checked that they actually completed successfully. It was not important in those days, to check return codes. What then happened ? We worked the whole weekend, non stop , writing assembler programs to manually try and fix pointer errors , on the broken files, etc. etc. Summary I am digressing... so lets get back to the subject/topic... pissing contest ? The most important issue in the 2016 election in the USA and a new movie on the movie circuit this week ? http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-inequality-for-all/ Kerneels On 9/25/2013 5:40 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: Kerneels wrote: Old Farts : People in the USA that still think they are 21 , can work 18 hours a day, go home , make love, before falling a sleep for 3 hours , just to rush back to work , to make sure all the production systems are up and running on a Monday morning From below URLs: “He apparently pulled eight all-nighters in two weeks. They get you working crazy hours and maybe it was just too much for him in the end,” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/slavery-in-the-city-death-of-21yearold-intern-moritz-erhardt-at-merrill-lynch-sparks-furore-over-long-hours-and-macho-culture-at-banks-8775917.html or (more or less same content) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/10255199/Bank-intern-who-died-after-working-for-72-hours-felt-pressure-to-excel.html Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Posts from AbsKerneels reminds me of the movie title One fly over the cuckoos nest. Richard and Vickie Pinion --- kerne...@absoftwareconsultants.com wrote: From: AbsKerneels kerne...@absoftwareconsultants.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 05:56:54 -0600 Elardus, TRUE story.. and this occurred at YOUR installation in the late 70's : We lost the main IMS database , with all the information of all the people that needed to klaar out.. .or move on , with their normal lives.. because they forced some of us, to donate two years of our lives to military service or to defend our country because the communists was about to invade or take over.. or so we were told, on a daily/weekly basis. The DBA manager at the time ? Ray Russel Why did we lose the Database ? Because of pointer errors and none of the database backups were actually working. They ran daily/weekly/monthly but nobody actually checked that they actually completed successfully. It was not important in those days, to check return codes. What then happened ? We worked the whole weekend, non stop , writing assembler programs to manually try and fix pointer errors , on the broken files, etc. etc. Summary I am digressing... so lets get back to the subject/topic... pissing contest ? The most important issue in the 2016 election in the USA and a new movie on the movie circuit this week ? http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-inequality-for-all/ Kerneels On 9/25/2013 5:40 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: Kerneels wrote: Old Farts : People in the USA that still think they are 21 , can work 18 hours a day, go home , make love, before falling a sleep for 3 hours , just to rush back to work , to make sure all the production systems are up and running on a Monday morning From below URLs: “He apparently pulled eight all-nighters in two weeks. They get you working crazy hours and maybe it was just too much for him in the end,” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/slavery-in-the-city-death-of-21yearold-intern-moritz-erhardt-at-merrill-lynch-sparks-furore-over-long-hours-and-macho-culture-at-banks-8775917.html or (more or less same content) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/10255199/Bank-intern-who-died-after-working-for-72-hours-felt-pressure-to-excel.html Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
AbsKerneels wrote: TRUE story.. We lost the main IMS database , with all the information of all the people that needed to klaar out.. .or move on , with their normal lives.. because they forced some of us, to donate two years of our lives to military service or to defend our country because the communists was about to invade or take over.. or so we were told, on a daily/weekly basis. The DBA manager at the time ? Ray Russel Unfamiliar name for me. That is way before I even started worked. I never smelled/seen/touched IMS db. Why did we lose the Database? Because of pointer errors and none of the database backups were actually working. They ran daily/weekly/monthly but nobody actually checked that they actually completed successfully. It was not important in those days, to check return codes. Stupid *ssholes. Same happened about 2-4 years ago. Some *sshole put in a tape for his/her/it Unix backups, never checked that the backups are *working* and *usable*. What then happened ? We worked the whole weekend, non stop, writing assembler programs to manually try and fix pointer errors, on the broken files, etc. etc. Good messy war story. For above Unix backups, there were NOTHING to restore at all. Not my problem. ;-) I am digressing... You may. I will not stop you. ;-) Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
An even sadder story: a group made a mess of a migration scenario on some unix machine and had to roll back. Meanwhile they had put the backuptape op top of the machine, where it had become too hot and was unusable. The entire group had to work all weekend to get things up again. Were they beaten up by management for executing the migration in such a horrible way? No, they were rewarded restaurant tickets for working so hard during the weekend. Our group, with good procedures and backup scenario's which never caused a severe backup, considered for a moment to switch to the other way of working, we also wanted to 'earn' our restaurant tickets. In the end we did not, one has his pride (at least we did)... Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 14:19 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) AbsKerneels wrote: TRUE story.. We lost the main IMS database , with all the information of all the people that needed to klaar out.. .or move on , with their normal lives.. because they forced some of us, to donate two years of our lives to military service or to defend our country because the communists was about to invade or take over.. or so we were told, on a daily/weekly basis. The DBA manager at the time ? Ray Russel Unfamiliar name for me. That is way before I even started worked. I never smelled/seen/touched IMS db. Why did we lose the Database? Because of pointer errors and none of the database backups were actually working. They ran daily/weekly/monthly but nobody actually checked that they actually completed successfully. It was not important in those days, to check return codes. Stupid *ssholes. Same happened about 2-4 years ago. Some *sshole put in a tape for his/her/it Unix backups, never checked that the backups are *working* and *usable*. What then happened ? We worked the whole weekend, non stop, writing assembler programs to manually try and fix pointer errors, on the broken files, etc. etc. Good messy war story. For above Unix backups, there were NOTHING to restore at all. Not my problem. ;-) I am digressing... You may. I will not stop you. ;-) Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Getting it UP after working for 18 hours is a One fly over the cuckoos nest concept in the USA.. but if you are from South Africa, it's seen as NORMAL day to day occurrence... and they never found us dead at our DESKS ever or needed to phone 911.. ( Another TRUE story.. happened in TEXAS.. in the Database department ) Note: So, what Ted Cruz are doing in the Senate currently will not impress anybody from AFRICA .. specially, if you do know how the Senate works in the USA .. translated for Richard/Vickie Pinion ... Ted Cruz is not the coldest beer in any fridge : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLXayD6e8 Kerneels On 9/25/2013 6:12 AM, Richard Pinion wrote: Posts from AbsKerneels reminds me of the movie title One fly over the cuckoos nest. Richard and Vickie Pinion -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Dude, Not only in South Africa, we do 18+ in NYC too, a lot of us dedicated, old farts who care about their work do that I am slowing down at 63 ... Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 25, 2013, at 8:48 AM, AbsKerneels kerne...@absoftwareconsultants.com wrote: Getting it UP after working for 18 hours is a One fly over the cuckoos nest concept in the USA.. but if you are from South Africa, it's seen as NORMAL day to day occurrence... and they never found us dead at our DESKS ever or needed to phone 911.. ( Another TRUE story.. happened in TEXAS.. in the Database department ) Note: So, what Ted Cruz are doing in the Senate currently will not impress anybody from AFRICA .. specially, if you do know how the Senate works in the USA .. translated for Richard/Vickie Pinion ... Ted Cruz is not the coldest beer in any fridge : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLXayD6e8 Kerneels On 9/25/2013 6:12 AM, Richard Pinion wrote: Posts from AbsKerneels reminds me of the movie title One fly over the cuckoos nest. Richard and Vickie Pinion -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
On 09/25/2013 07:48 AM, AbsKerneels wrote: Getting it UP after working for 18 hours is a One fly over the cuckoos nest concept in the USA.. but if you are from South Africa, it's seen as NORMAL day to day occurrence... and they never found us dead at our DESKS ever or needed to phone 911.. ( Another TRUE story.. happened in TEXAS.. in the Database department ) Note: So, what Ted Cruz are doing in the Senate currently will not impress anybody from AFRICA .. specially, if you do know how the Senate works in the USA .. translated for Richard/Vickie Pinion ... Ted Cruz is not the coldest beer in any fridge : Doesn't impress the saner folks in USA either. Unfortunately there are many in Ted's flock who were asleep during their Civics/Government classes who will think a long irrelevant Senate speech which is already guaranteed to end with a vote at a scheduled time is somehow equivalent to a heroic open-ended filibuster; and who totally miss the irony of his reciting as a time-filler in this context the Dr Suess Green Eggs and Ham poem, a metaphor for the stupidity of opposing something one is unwilling to try and will like after trying. JC Ewing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLXayD6e8 Kerneels On 9/25/2013 6:12 AM, Richard Pinion wrote: Posts from AbsKerneels reminds me of the movie title One fly over the cuckoos nest. Richard and Vickie Pinion ... -- Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR jcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Ken Kesey's 1962 novel, One FLEW over the cuckoo's nest, is still eminently worth reading; and Miloš Forman's eponymous film is a classic. One fly over a cuckoo's nest is less significant and would in any case be shortlived since cuckoos are insectivores --jg -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Fletcher (John Vernon) in The Outlaw Josey Wales articulated it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=kfdpcrOgUp4 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:54 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Ken Kesey's 1962 novel, One FLEW over the cuckoo's nest, is still eminently worth reading; and Miloš Forman's eponymous film is a classic. One fly over a cuckoo's nest is less significant and would in any case be shortlived since cuckoos are insectivores --jg -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Just for the record : a) I really liked that movie.. ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOOS NEST b) When I watched this video clip again, this morning... Jack Nicholson reminded me of TED CRUZ or even Gov Rick Perry.. of Texas. c) Baseball tickets...as in the attached video.. I am heading up to BOSTON on the 1 of Oct 2013 and I will go to FENNWAY Park and Harvard University..with or without the permission of any nurse So, if you see somebody in a hospital suit in any of these places.. you have permission to come shake my hand or to push me around in my wheelchair : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI_4HtIJYDM What is Fenway park ? It's a famous sport stadium for baseball, which is like cricket .. but for whoossies because you are not allowed to touch the batter, with the ball, when pitching/bowling Kerneels On 9/25/2013 8:53 AM, John Gilmore wrote: Ken Kesey's 1962 novel, One FLEW over the cuckoo's nest, is still eminently worth reading; and Miloš Forman's eponymous film is a classic. One fly over a cuckoo's nest is less significant and would in any case be shortlived since cuckoos are insectivores --jg -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
On 9/23/2013 3:37 AM, Shane Ginnane wrote: Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Trust me, if Shane can control himself, you can too! :) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
When this thread popped up, I first was happy, so I could easily skip this subject and concentrate on useful threads, but this one is becoming so funny, I don't want to miss it either... Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Mattson Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 17:39 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) With all the heavy seriousness these days, a little levity is in order. Thanks, folks, its been fun. Now let's keep our senses (of humor) and let this matter pass. So to speak John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Taylor, Scott scott.tay...@autozone.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 08:25 AM Subject:Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Only on this listserv can this particular topic become a thread... sigh. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B. Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:24 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Agreed! In a pub in England, to get pissed means to get drunk. Right, Rob? :-) In that case, it would be a drinking contest. Much better imagery! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:11 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sounds English to me ..lol Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Mattson john_matt...@ea.epson.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) So does anyone wonder where the phrase came from anyhow? Were there such contests in the distant past? Was it an ancient Greek olympic event? What? Certainly seems like good material for Monty Python. John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 07:40 AM Subject:Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Vernooij, CP wrote: When this thread popped up, I first was happy, so I could easily skip this subject and concentrate on useful threads, ... You are NOT allowed to skip funny threads. ;-) ... but this one is becoming so funny, I don't want to miss it either... I also enjoyed this thread and learned something new (piss - alternate slang term for alcohol and alcohol usage). We have here in South Africa different slang terms for drink, alcohol, etc. I will not now plague you with it, maybe later. ;-) Kees, now you know why I am Neutral! One catch: any party will think I'm on *their* enemy's side. Sigh... :-p Ok, let us all drink on this thread... ;-D Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
On 13Sep23:2156-0400, John Gilmore wrote: The first time I encountered something like this phrase, circa 1950, it took the form of Don't get into a pissing match with a skunk! I suspect that the phrase and its variants have multiple etymologies, with much semantic cross contamination among them. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA I would expect you to prefer the micturition competition variant. :-) -- not cent from sell May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! Dave_Craig__ So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe. __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) defines a pissing contest as a competition to see who can urinate the farthest or highest and (in extended use) as any contest which is futile or purposeless especially ones pursued in a conspicuously aggressive manner. The first cited use of the phrase comes from a 1943 Study and Investigation of Federal Communications Committee hearing before the U.S. House Select Committee to Investigate F.C.C. where a politician was quoted as saying: You boys have to understand .. that I have to deal with a combination like that of Hartley-David; it is like having a pissing contest with a skunk. The OED's first citation of pissing match is from a December 1971 Washington Post story that says One Western diplomat ... discounting the significance of the Sino-Soviet arguments ... described it as 'a pissing match, and I'm glad not to be caught in the crossfire'. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David L. Craig Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) On 13Sep23:2156-0400, John Gilmore wrote: The first time I encountered something like this phrase, circa 1950, it took the form of Don't get into a pissing match with a skunk! I suspect that the phrase and its variants have multiple etymologies, with much semantic cross contamination among them. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA I would expect you to prefer the micturition competition variant. :-) -- not cent from sell May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! Dave_Craig__ So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe. __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
David, No. I in fact regret the lingering influence of 17th-century puritanism on English usage. In, say, Italian the cognate verb, pisciare, has always been usable even in what used to be called polite society. Preoccupation with avoiding four-letter words in English has had very unfortunate effects. The forced choice between sounding like a medical textbook or a guttersnipe in talking about the obvious topics is disagreeable. The word 'micturition' in fact makes me slightly uncomfortable qua latinist. It derives from micturire, to have a need/desire to urinate, rather than from mingere, to urinate. I should be a bit happier with mingurition if it existed, but it does not, and both words are anyway dispensable in English. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
On 13Sep24:0729-0400, John Gilmore wrote: David, No. I in fact regret the lingering influence of 17th-century puritanism on English usage. In, say, Italian the cognate verb, pisciare, has always been usable even in what used to be called polite society. Preoccupation with avoiding four-letter words in English has had very unfortunate effects. The forced choice between sounding like a medical textbook or a guttersnipe in talking about the obvious topics is disagreeable. The word 'micturition' in fact makes me slightly uncomfortable qua latinist. It derives from micturire, to have a need/desire to urinate, rather than from mingere, to urinate. I should be a bit happier with mingurition if it existed, but it does not, and both words are anyway dispensable in English. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA Opinion adjusted. :-) -- not cent from sell May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! Dave_Craig__ So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe. __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
MXG in ACHAP07 line 440 states, in part, 'pissing off'. :) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Barry Merrill Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:20 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) defines a pissing contest as a competition to see who can urinate the farthest or highest and (in extended use) as any contest which is futile or purposeless especially ones pursued in a conspicuously aggressive manner. The first cited use of the phrase comes from a 1943 Study and Investigation of Federal Communications Committee hearing before the U.S. House Select Committee to Investigate F.C.C. where a politician was quoted as saying: You boys have to understand .. that I have to deal with a combination like that of Hartley-David; it is like having a pissing contest with a skunk. The OED's first citation of pissing match is from a December 1971 Washington Post story that says One Western diplomat ... discounting the significance of the Sino-Soviet arguments ... described it as 'a pissing match, and I'm glad not to be caught in the crossfire'. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David L. Craig Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) On 13Sep23:2156-0400, John Gilmore wrote: The first time I encountered something like this phrase, circa 1950, it took the form of Don't get into a pissing match with a skunk! I suspect that the phrase and its variants have multiple etymologies, with much semantic cross contamination among them. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA I would expect you to prefer the micturition competition variant. :-) -- not cent from sell May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! Dave_Craig__ So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe. __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Luckily not in the OED sense. We don't our operators to do that behind the console. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Klan, Rob (RET-DAY) Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 13:47 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) MXG in ACHAP07 line 440 states, in part, 'pissing off'. :) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Barry Merrill Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:20 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) defines a pissing contest as a competition to see who can urinate the farthest or highest and (in extended use) as any contest which is futile or purposeless especially ones pursued in a conspicuously aggressive manner. The first cited use of the phrase comes from a 1943 Study and Investigation of Federal Communications Committee hearing before the U.S. House Select Committee to Investigate F.C.C. where a politician was quoted as saying: You boys have to understand .. that I have to deal with a combination like that of Hartley-David; it is like having a pissing contest with a skunk. The OED's first citation of pissing match is from a December 1971 Washington Post story that says One Western diplomat ... discounting the significance of the Sino-Soviet arguments ... described it as 'a pissing match, and I'm glad not to be caught in the crossfire'. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David L. Craig Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) On 13Sep23:2156-0400, John Gilmore wrote: The first time I encountered something like this phrase, circa 1950, it took the form of Don't get into a pissing match with a skunk! I suspect that the phrase and its variants have multiple etymologies, with much semantic cross contamination among them. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA I would expect you to prefer the micturition competition variant. :-) -- not cent from sell May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! Dave_Craig__ So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe. __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
I had hoped I could resist contributing to this thread; alas, apparently not. On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 07:29:40 -0400, John Gilmore wrote: David, No. I in fact regret the lingering influence of 17th-century puritanism on English usage. In, say, Italian the cognate verb, pisciare, has always been usable even in what used to be called polite society. Preoccupation with avoiding four-letter words in English has had very unfortunate effects. The forced choice between sounding like a medical textbook or a guttersnipe in talking about the obvious topics is disagreeable. But I have a fairly clear recollection (but can't find in the archives here; perhaps it was ASSEMBLER-LIST) of an instance where you chastised a writer who failed to bowdlerize some content. (Perhaps, but not exactly, ASSEMBLER-LIST, 2012-02-12, wherein you elected to supply a bowdlerized translation from German.) However, David was playing not on your puritanism, but on your erudition, in my perception. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
An alternative to Bowdlerizing a word or phrase that is controversial is to acronym [1] it. E.g., now we may begin using PC in addition to PKB to describe some others' posts. Or, in a rare moment of non-puerile thinking, maybe even our own. Bill Fairchild Franklin, TN [1] Theoretically, any given word can be verbed. - Original Message - From: Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:03:27 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) I had hoped I could resist contributing to this thread; alas, apparently not. On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 07:29:40 -0400, John Gilmore wrote: David, No. I in fact regret the lingering influence of 17th-century puritanism on English usage. In, say, Italian the cognate verb, pisciare, has always been usable even in what used to be called polite society. Preoccupation with avoiding four-letter words in English has had very unfortunate effects. The forced choice between sounding like a medical textbook or a guttersnipe in talking about the obvious topics is disagreeable. But I have a fairly clear recollection (but can't find in the archives here; perhaps it was ASSEMBLER-LIST) of an instance where you chastised a writer who failed to bowdlerize some content. (Perhaps, but not exactly, ASSEMBLER-LIST, 2012-02-12, wherein you elected to supply a bowdlerized translation from German.) However, David was playing not on your puritanism, but on your erudition, in my perception. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Ok, I will bite, what about being 'pissed off' Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 24, 2013, at 8:17 AM, DASDBILL2 dasdbi...@comcast.net wrote: An alternative to Bowdlerizing a word or phrase that is controversial is to acronym [1] it. E.g., now we may begin using PC in addition to PKB to describe some others' posts. Or, in a rare moment of non-puerile thinking, maybe even our own. Bill Fairchild Franklin, TN [1] Theoretically, any given word can be verbed. - Original Message - From: Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:03:27 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) I had hoped I could resist contributing to this thread; alas, apparently not. On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 07:29:40 -0400, John Gilmore wrote: David, No. I in fact regret the lingering influence of 17th-century puritanism on English usage. In, say, Italian the cognate verb, pisciare, has always been usable even in what used to be called polite society. Preoccupation with avoiding four-letter words in English has had very unfortunate effects. The forced choice between sounding like a medical textbook or a guttersnipe in talking about the obvious topics is disagreeable. But I have a fairly clear recollection (but can't find in the archives here; perhaps it was ASSEMBLER-LIST) of an instance where you chastised a writer who failed to bowdlerize some content. (Perhaps, but not exactly, ASSEMBLER-LIST, 2012-02-12, wherein you elected to supply a bowdlerized translation from German.) However, David was playing not on your puritanism, but on your erudition, in my perception. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
and how about, better to be pissed off than pissed on ? /s/ tuco bonno; Graduate, College of Conflict Management; University of SouthEast Asia; I partied on the Ho Chi Minh Trail - tiến lên !! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Tuesday, 24 September, 2013 08:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Ok, I will bite, what about being 'pissed off' Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 24, 2013, at 8:17 AM, DASDBILL2 dasdbi...@comcast.net wrote: An alternative to Bowdlerizing a word or phrase that is controversial is to acronym [1] it. E.g., now we may begin using PC in addition to PKB to describe some others' posts. Or, in a rare moment of non-puerile thinking, maybe even our own. Bill Fairchild Franklin, TN [1] Theoretically, any given word can be verbed. - Original Message - From: Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:03:27 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) I had hoped I could resist contributing to this thread; alas, apparently not. On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 07:29:40 -0400, John Gilmore wrote: David, No. I in fact regret the lingering influence of 17th-century puritanism on English usage. In, say, Italian the cognate verb, pisciare, has always been usable even in what used to be called polite society. Preoccupation with avoiding four-letter words in English has had very unfortunate effects. The forced choice between sounding like a medical textbook or a guttersnipe in talking about the obvious topics is disagreeable. But I have a fairly clear recollection (but can't find in the archives here; perhaps it was ASSEMBLER-LIST) of an instance where you chastised a writer who failed to bowdlerize some content. (Perhaps, but not exactly, ASSEMBLER-LIST, 2012-02-12, wherein you elected to supply a bowdlerized translation from German.) However, David was playing not on your puritanism, but on your erudition, in my perception. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Enjoy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pissing_contest GHC Confidentiality Statement This message and any attached files might contain confidential information protected by federal and state law. The information is intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entities originally named as addressees. The improper disclosure of such information may be subject to civil or criminal penalties. If this message reached you in error, please contact the sender and destroy this message. Disclosing, copying, forwarding, or distributing the information by unauthorized individuals or entities is strictly prohibited by law. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
I own, and in a certain sense cherish, a facsimile edition of Thomas Bowdler's 1818 edition of Shakespeare's plays, which sanitized them, eliminating 'bawdry' that he judged unsuitable for maidens. It is a disaster, and in an important sense a failure because it identifies by omission or paraphrase a good deal of antique bawdry that would otherwise have been missed by most 18th-century readers. I dislike his undertaking and others like it. (There is a bowdlerized Pushkin in Russian that is at least equally offensive and tin-eared.) A special problem does, however, arise in translating. There is, for example, a comparatively common and vulgar but not obscene German locution that suggests to someone that he would do well to get himself reconceived by his father, whose first effort leaves much to be desired. Translated literally into English it turns out to be very offensive indeed, Or again, a French phrase like 'Je me suis foutu', all but innocuous in French, is not so when translated literally into English. When something needs to be cleaned up in translating it into English the use of the verb to bowdlerize has the merit that it makes what is being done clear without offending one of those maidens. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
It becomes ever funnier: This thread often uses the verb bowdlerize, which I did not know until now. I had an idea of its meaning, but looked it up for its Dutch translation. It was translated as 'kuisen', not much used in Dutch, but a common Flemish word for 'cleaning'. Sounds reasonable. Furthermore one of the explanations in English was edit by omitting or modifying parts considered indelicate, which sounds reasonable, but one of the examples was 'to castrate'. So, after 'cleaning' the men, they were fit to work in the women's buidlings and there we are back with the maidens again... Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 15:16 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) I own, and in a certain sense cherish, a facsimile edition of Thomas Bowdler's 1818 edition of Shakespeare's plays, which sanitized them, eliminating 'bawdry' that he judged unsuitable for maidens. It is a disaster, and in an important sense a failure because it identifies by omission or paraphrase a good deal of antique bawdry that would otherwise have been missed by most 18th-century readers. I dislike his undertaking and others like it. (There is a bowdlerized Pushkin in Russian that is at least equally offensive and tin-eared.) A special problem does, however, arise in translating. There is, for example, a comparatively common and vulgar but not obscene German locution that suggests to someone that he would do well to get himself reconceived by his father, whose first effort leaves much to be desired. Translated literally into English it turns out to be very offensive indeed, Or again, a French phrase like 'Je me suis foutu', all but innocuous in French, is not so when translated literally into English. When something needs to be cleaned up in translating it into English the use of the verb to bowdlerize has the merit that it makes what is being done clear without offending one of those maidens. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
In Outback restaurants in the U.S. They have a sign Used Beer Department. On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 5:15 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za wrote: Vernooij, CP wrote: When this thread popped up, I first was happy, so I could easily skip this subject and concentrate on useful threads, ... You are NOT allowed to skip funny threads. ;-) ... but this one is becoming so funny, I don't want to miss it either... I also enjoyed this thread and learned something new (piss - alternate slang term for alcohol and alcohol usage). We have here in South Africa different slang terms for drink, alcohol, etc. I will not now plague you with it, maybe later. ;-) Kees, now you know why I am Neutral! One catch: any party will think I'm on *their* enemy's side. Sigh... :-p Ok, let us all drink on this thread... ;-D Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Hi, Seeing that the IBM world is gradually changing into discussions about the word pissing.. I suppose I have to also accept it and participate , at some stage.. but it would have been more enjoyable to have been on the other side of this conversation (as in the video ) than to read any of these postings in this thread : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNicC0ejf0U Disclaimer: There was no attempt at trying to refer to any politician or political strategic thinking in this country (USA), because doing that, confuses even more real IBM experts.. out there.. not to mention the people that are paid by all of us.. to work for all of us, because that can also be referred to as a pissing contest, at this stage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclaimer Kerneels -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Hey kerneels, That was good liked it...especially since I worked in Europe .. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 24, 2013, at 1:19 PM, AbsKerneels kerne...@absoftwareconsultants.com wrote: Hi, Seeing that the IBM world is gradually changing into discussions about the word pissing.. I suppose I have to also accept it and participate , at some stage.. but it would have been more enjoyable to have been on the other side of this conversation (as in the video ) than to read any of these postings in this thread : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNicC0ejf0U Disclaimer: There was no attempt at trying to refer to any politician or political strategic thinking in this country (USA), because doing that, confuses even more real IBM experts.. out there.. not to mention the people that are paid by all of us.. to work for all of us, because that can also be referred to as a pissing contest, at this stage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclaimer Kerneels -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
So does anyone wonder where the phrase came from anyhow? Were there such contests in the distant past? Was it an ancient Greek olympic event? What? Certainly seems like good material for Monty Python. John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 07:40 AM Subject:Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Sounds English to me ..lol Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Mattson john_matt...@ea.epson.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) So does anyone wonder where the phrase came from anyhow? Were there such contests in the distant past? Was it an ancient Greek olympic event? What? Certainly seems like good material for Monty Python. John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 07:40 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
I think you meant UK. :-) And as pissed and pissed off are movable UKUS feasts :-) here goes... Think urinals. :-) You asked for it. :-) So here's some toilet humour. :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 09/23/2013 04:11 PM Subject:Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Sounds English to me ..lol Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Mattson john_matt...@ea.epson.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) So does anyone wonder where the phrase came from anyhow? Were there such contests in the distant past? Was it an ancient Greek olympic event? What? Certainly seems like good material for Monty Python. John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 07:40 AM Subject:Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Agreed! In a pub in England, to get pissed means to get drunk. Right, Rob? :-) In that case, it would be a drinking contest. Much better imagery! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:11 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sounds English to me ..lol Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Mattson john_matt...@ea.epson.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) So does anyone wonder where the phrase came from anyhow? Were there such contests in the distant past? Was it an ancient Greek olympic event? What? Certainly seems like good material for Monty Python. John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 07:40 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Only on this listserv can this particular topic become a thread... sigh. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B. Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:24 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Agreed! In a pub in England, to get pissed means to get drunk. Right, Rob? :-) In that case, it would be a drinking contest. Much better imagery! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:11 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sounds English to me ..lol Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Mattson john_matt...@ea.epson.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) So does anyone wonder where the phrase came from anyhow? Were there such contests in the distant past? Was it an ancient Greek olympic event? What? Certainly seems like good material for Monty Python. John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 07:40 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
Yep agreed, lived in Europe so I get it ...but still fun ...life is t short not to have fun ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richards, Robert B. robert.richa...@opm.gov To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Agreed! In a pub in England, to get pissed means to get drunk. Right, Rob? :-) In that case, it would be a drinking contest. Much better imagery! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:11 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sounds English to me ..lol Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Mattson john_matt...@ea.epson.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) So does anyone wonder where the phrase came from anyhow? Were there such contests in the distant past? Was it an ancient Greek olympic event? What? Certainly seems like good material for Monty Python. John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 07:40 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
.and this is why NSA stopped monitoring us. Tony's iPhone (with toy keyboard) is responsible for this Email. Please do not snicker. On Sep 23, 2013, at 10:39 AM, John Mattson john_matt...@ea.epson.com wrote: With all the heavy seriousness these days, a little levity is in order. Thanks, folks, its been fun. Now let's keep our senses (of humor) and let this matter pass. So to speak John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Taylor, Scott scott.tay...@autozone.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 08:25 AM Subject:Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Only on this listserv can this particular topic become a thread... sigh. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B. Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:24 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Agreed! In a pub in England, to get pissed means to get drunk. Right, Rob? :-) In that case, it would be a drinking contest. Much better imagery! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:11 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sounds English to me ..lol Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Mattson john_matt...@ea.epson.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) So does anyone wonder where the phrase came from anyhow? Were there such contests in the distant past? Was it an ancient Greek olympic event? What? Certainly seems like good material for Monty Python. John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 07:40 AM Subject:Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
In Australia piss is also a slang word for alcohol. We're having a barbie Sunday arvo. Just bring your own piss. On 23/09/2013, at 11:24 PM, Richards, Robert B. robert.richa...@opm.gov wrote: Agreed! In a pub in England, to get pissed means to get drunk. Right, Rob? :-) In that case, it would be a drinking contest. Much better imagery! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:11 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sounds English to me ..lol Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Mattson john_matt...@ea.epson.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) So does anyone wonder where the phrase came from anyhow? Were there such contests in the distant past? Was it an ancient Greek olympic event? What? Certainly seems like good material for Monty Python. John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 07:40 AM Subject:Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
The first time I encountered something like this phrase, circa 1950, it took the form of Don't get into a pissing match with a skunk! I suspect that the phrase and its variants have multiple etymologies, with much semantic cross contamination among them. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
David, I like that...he someone says take a piss, it's more like leave one Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 23, 2013, at 8:01 PM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: In Australia piss is also a slang word for alcohol. We're having a barbie Sunday arvo. Just bring your own piss. On 23/09/2013, at 11:24 PM, Richards, Robert B. robert.richa...@opm.gov wrote: Agreed! In a pub in England, to get pissed means to get drunk. Right, Rob? :-) In that case, it would be a drinking contest. Much better imagery! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:11 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Sounds English to me ..lol Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Mattson john_matt...@ea.epson.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) So does anyone wonder where the phrase came from anyhow? Were there such contests in the distant past? Was it an ancient Greek olympic event? What? Certainly seems like good material for Monty Python. John Mattson, Epson America desk: 562-290-4163 cell:310-210-9152 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 09/23/2013 07:40 AM Subject:Re: Pissing contest(s) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I love it ...2 points Richard ... Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) Do the movie titles Grumpy old men and Grumpier old men come to mind? --- ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: From: Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Pissing contest(s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:37:46 -0500 Enuff already guys. There's no shortage of egos on this list, but let's keep it so we can all take something out of it. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
On 23 September 2013 21:56, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect that the phrase and its variants have multiple etymologies, with much semantic cross contamination among them. Indeed. I had imagined that any actual such contest would be engaged in only by small boys, and that the phrase is used to point out the puerile attitude of those supposedly engaged in it. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Pissing contest(s)
That's it, exactly. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 00:33:40 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Pissing contest(s) On 23 September 2013 21:56, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect that the phrase and its variants have multiple etymologies, with much semantic cross contamination among them. Indeed. I had imagined that any actual such contest would be engaged in only by small boys, and that the phrase is used to point out the puerile attitude of those supposedly engaged in it. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
