RE: [lace] Point d'Angleterre or Brussels bobbin lace

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Alex
Would I be correct in concluding from this that you favor the “Buffalo
Wings” school of thought on this? Buffalo Wings is a term that makes no
sense, but everyone knows what it is. (Buffalo Wings are a comestible
consisting of chicken wings with a spicy sauce, which may or may not have
originated in Buffalo, NY) Should I put you in the “Point d’Angleterre”
column?
One problem with Levey’s nomenclature is that she says “In general,
therefore, the names used in this book are tied as tightly as possible to the
known facts…”
As in Alex’s research, we are getting new facts all the time and some of
them are crazy. For instance, Levey deals with the fact that people in
Bedfordshire were making Maltese lace. But, now we know that people in Saxony
were making Maltese lace complete with little Maltese crosses. Would it be too
much of a stretch to say that when it comes to fashion laces they were making
everything everywhere?
It is totally unfortunate that so many technique names like Milanese are
location related. Another issue I have found is that do you label the
technique Milanese if the piece seems to have been made in Flanders, something
you surmise from the thread and the fillings?
In cataloguing the collection of the Cooper-Hewitt, they took the approach of
categorizing entirely on the basis of structure, so that you have categories
like “needle lace, hexagonal ground”. This was adapted from the
curator’s observation that there was no way that he could tell where
something was made. But, this was also an imperfect approach. I myself went
into the museum wishing to see Point de France and it took a bit of cogitating
between me and the collections manager to figure out which of the categories
this fit into.
We do have collectors, dealers and makers who come into the museum. Often they
have been reading sources on the internet which tend to predate 1923, the US
copyright free date. So, words like Alencon, rather than merely a structural
description are often on their tongues.
Devon



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From: Alex Stillwell
Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:01 AM
To: Arachne reply
Cc: devonth...@gmail.com
Subject: [lace] Point d'Angleterre or Brussels bobbin lace

Re:
From:  Subject: [lace] Point d'Angleterre or Brussels
bobbin lace

When I wrote my Illustrated Dictionary of lacemaking I had many problems like
this and spent many hours thinking about them.  Finally I came to the
conclusion that the bottom line is that words are a form of communication and
that what we say or write is correctly interpreted by the recipient.
Different
words have been used for the same variety of lace at different times, in
different countries, in different communities in the same country and whether
the name is used by a lacemaker, who knows the intimate structure of the
lace,
a dealer, who is trying to sell it or a collector who may know little about
either but thinks she does. Also, many laces have been made in many towns,
places and countries apart from the one from which the lace derived it,s
name.
We cannot ascribe any piece to a particular town or region unless there is
direct evidence. Sometimes design can be an indicator and sometimes
techniques, but even these can be unreliable. Researching Bucks point I have
found almost all the techniques, in the excellent  OIDFA book on Point Ground
Laces, in pieces in the Lace Guild Collection, most of which would have been
made in England. At best the names of the different laces should be treated
as
generic and not a statement of where the lace had been made. I have recently
been researching a well known lace with an astounding result that I will be
releasing in the May edition of the Lace Society magazine. It shows how
little
we can be sure of regarding the areas in which lace was made and how much
research needs to be done.

Happy lacemaking

Alex

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[lace] Saxony Lace-Czech?

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Many thanks to all those who are helping me with the puzzle of the Saxony
lace. I have received some very insightful replies, both privately and
publicly.
Some themes emerge. Bohemia is a confusing concept, geographically and
culturally.
Several people, Jean, and Leonard, tended to identify the lace as resembling
photographs that several books called Russian lace. Undoubtedly there are
similarities with Russian lace, for instance the floral subtext. Russian lace
itself changes over time taking on dramatically different appearances. One
thing that sort of bothers me about calling this piece Russian lace (in
medium) is that Russian lace often has a much more airy appearance, even
though it is also a tape lace that rambles around the way this one does. The
fact that the linen stitch is spread out as close to the edge of the tape as
possible and there are no decorative tapes seems to be a feature. One sees
this on Czech lace on ethnic costumes.
Lorelei focused more on the loopty-lous as I call them, but Carolina would
call them Vermicelli. This term Vermicelli also appears in Palliser. Another
term I think I have seen is occhiolini, which I believe translates to eyelet.
But this term or one like it (occhiwork) also seems to apply to tatting as
Alex’s Illustrated Dictionary of Lacemaking defines it that way. Lorelei was
kind enough to provide an entire history of laces going back in time with this
feature. Most interesting was the role it played in the development of what
would later become raised work in point d’Angleterre and Honiton. However,
most of the use of the vermicelli seems to be a specialty of Italian and
Eastern European lacemakers, at least that is my impression.
This feature, the vermicelli, is one that gives me pause also about putting
such a piece in the category of Russian lace. Ilske thinks it is very
characteristic of Czech lace. In fact, I am wondering if the term “Church”
lace was a mistaken transcription of Czech lace. Back then a lot of things
were originally handwritten and not always as clearly as one might hope.
High marks to Leonard for his memory of the work of Mincoff and Marriage. Here
the subject of Saxony lace is addressed head on, and the date of the work,
1907 corresponds directly to the date when the piece arrived in the
collection, 1908. Sadly, the examples given do not resemble the piece at all.
But, double word score for Leonard, for having found a reference to making
Mechlin in Turnhout! (However, one may interpret the word Mechlin in this
context!)
I am wondering if Czech lace can be considered a “medium” or style in
itself.
Devon




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[lace] Saxony lace

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There is a handkerchief located at
http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/215260?sortBy=Relevanceft
=08.180.911offset=0rpp=20pos=1
It says it was made in Saxony, Germany. But it looks like a tape lace of
possibly Eastern European origin. An explanation says it is “Church” lace.
It is clearly a handkerchief and there is nothing about it that would suggest
ecclesiastical use. Is “Church” lace a term of art that anyone is familiar
with, especially as it may relate to Saxony, Germany?
Devon

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Re: [lace] Snowed in?

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Dear Liz,
 
We got about 28 inches of snow. Since we finally bit the bullet and hired a 
 snow plow service, we didn't have to worry about the shoveling. Our  
responsibility was limited to selecting a fine Bordeaux to enjoy while  
binge-watching Vikings. We were dug out yesterday at 3pm and were very 
impressed  
with the job that our town had done in clearing the streets. The main roads 
were  dry pavement. So, we went to the gym and then out to dinner.
 
Devon
PS. Lace content: Vikings has many things to delight those interested in  
costume history and theatrical costuming, the one short coming being that the 
 Viking era preceded the era of lace as a fashion item.

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[lace] Tape Lace-Annette Meldrum

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I was looking at the sample provided by Nathalie and wondered if it were  
Borris Lace, an Irish needlelace that Annette Meldrum wrote a book about. 
Maybe  she could comment. The book is called The Borris Lace Collection: A 
Unique Irish  Needlelace.
Devon

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[lace] IOLI Bulletin-color pages!

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Did anyone else notice that there are 8 color pages in the center of the  
IOLI Bulletin making it the most colorful Bulletin yet? Bravo to Katrina  
Middleton, our editor.
Devon

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Re: [lace] Fashion and Virtue

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Lorelei asked about the dresses in the Fashion and Virtue exhibit.
 
The dresses date from the early 20th century. They belonged to the  
socialite Rita de Acosta Lydig. She had a strong fondness for lace and was 
known  
for wearing antique pieces. In fact, her shoe collection, owned by the  
Metropolitan Museum, has a lot of very genuine looking antique lace on the  
shoes! The dresses were produced, it is thought by Callot Souers, a French  
dressmaking enterprise run by sisters, also known for their fondness for lace.  
They were descended from lacemakers. It is unclear whether some of these 
clothes  made for Lydig incorporated pieces from her antique lace collection, 
or 
whether  Callot Souers used antique lace that they sourced, or whether they 
used lace  newly made in the many revival lace industries that existed in 
the early 20th  century. 
When my colleague and I organized the Gems of European Lace exhibit several 
 years ago, we had initially been working with the idea of putting out the  
study cards that are on the one wall of this exhibit, and then adding a few 
 things. We had selected the dress for this exhibit because it incorporated 
the  gridded patterns of the pattern books. I liked it because it showed 
how the lace  collectors of the early 20th century were really hard core, even 
choosing to  wear a lace that was historic and dramatic, but which flew in 
the face of  associations of femininity, romance, diaphanousness, etc. 
Having gone through  the difficult permissioning process, we kept the dress in 
our exhibit,  even after the entire premise of the exhibit changed. For one 
thing, people  seemed to really like that dress. 
On the subject of whether the dress is actually made of antique lace,  I 
have never really decided. The back of the dress actually has a  different 
piece of lace, similar, but not as interesting a design put into it.  So does 
this mean it was an antique piece that didn't fully fit the requirements  for 
the dress pattern? Alternatively, it is right where the wearer would be  
sitting. Maybe the lace was damaged when Rita sat on something and the  dress 
had to be repaired? In trying to figure this out, we did come  across some 
evidence that this kind of lace was being made in the 20th  century in 
Sardinia. So that argues for a 20th century origin.
The area of the exhibit with those dresses is sort of oriented  toward 
concepts of the use of the designs from the pattern books in fashion  and in 
folk costume. In fact, the designer Todd Oldham has a dress in the  exhibit. He 
is engaging in a "conversation" this Friday evening with  the curator in 
the Lehman wing where the exhibit is. My interest in the  exhibit is more 
related to historical textiles, than to fashion, but,  I am planning to attend. 
Devon

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[lace] Fashion and Virtue: Texile Patterns and the Print Revolution 1520-1620

[Dmt11home]

Dear Friends, 
Susan Hottle has been kind enough to draw attention to the new exhibit  
Fashion and Virtue, at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. I think this 
 is a very interesting exhibit. In the 16th and 17th century printing 
evolved in  the direction of printing pattern books for lace and needlework. 
The  
Metropolitan Museum of Art has an excellent collection of these early 
pattern  books which curator Femke Speelberg has paired with textiles that show 
the  patterns in use. For people who are interested in the history of lace 
and  embroidery this is really a stunning show. In the 1930s the museum put on 
an  exhibition pairing patterns with textile samples, most of them lace, 
and this  entire exhibit appears on one wall as a side light. These are very 
interesting  study cards which are frequently consulted by early lace 
enthusiasts in order to  understand the translation of the patterns to lace. 
This is an intellectually exciting exhibit in which you have to read the  
labels to get the entire effect. The textiles were chosen to demonstrate the  
patterns in the books, so they were not chosen on the basis of being world 
class  textiles, although several of them are quite nice. It is really 
incredible  that she found as many textiles as she did to match with the 
patterns. My hat is  off to her. Some of them are loan objects. 
Details of the exhibit can be found here: 
http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2015/fashion-and-virtue
Of interest to lacemakers there is a 1557 copy of Le Pompe on display. I  
counted 35 pieces of lace in the exhibit, but many are small samples on the  
study cards. There is filet, cutwork, burato, needle lace and bobbin lace.  
Notable among the bobbin laces are a gold lace around a collar, and a  
fascinating piece of bobbin lace that is a tour de force in technique that I  
dealt with in an article in the Bulletin of the International Old Lacers, Inc., 
 winter 2007-8. 
There are actually more pieces of lace in this Prints exhibit, than have  
simultaneously been on display in the museum for quite some time. The last 
major  lace display was in the 1950s and I don't know if there were that many 
then. Our  lace display several years ago in the Ratti Gallery had only 13 
pieces. My  husband, who is not a lace enthusiast found the woodblock carved 
by Durer of a  design by da Vinci to be the most interesting thing in the 
exhibit. According to  the curator, it has not been outside of Germany since 
the 18th century. 
I was lucky to be invited to the opening of the exhibit. After everyone  
else had left, I got the idea to make a video of it with my phone just as a  
memory aid to myself. It has occurred to me that posting this on youtube 
might  help some of my fellow lacemakers to decide whether they want to make  
the expensive and time consuming journey to the exhibit, which is, after all, 
a  Prints exhibit. Unfortunately, the video is of terrible quality and 
really  doesn't capture how interesting the exhibit is if you carefully read 
the 
labels.  About 4 minutes into the video, my husband who after nearly two 
hours in an  exhibit that everyone else had already left, had been pushed 
beyond his  endurance level, and who didn't realize I was taping, gave me my 
coat 
check tag  and announced he was going to the car. This certainly gives this 
otherwise very  poorly done video some pathos. When he realized what I was 
doing, he didn't  actually leave me. People who know my husband can see him 
dodging behind a  chasuble in the final seconds of the film. Hope the film 
doesn't put anyone off,  since it is an excellent exhibit. Here is the link.
 
 
https://youtu.be/5sC20kXwa1Y 
Devon

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Re: [lace] book recommendations needed

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If you are a member of the International Organization of Lace, Inc, the  
organization has a lending library and is now sending books to members outside 
 the US. You could borrow some books to preview and decide whether they are 
worth  buying.
Details here: 
http://www.internationalorganizationoflace.org/Library/library.html
Devon
 
 
In a message dated 7/17/2015 5:23:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
m...@shaw.ca writes:

Thanks  for all the recommendations of where to buy books.
But I guess I didn't  make myself clear enough. The main thing I was 
asking for what which books  I should be looking for to learn Binche, 
Mechlin, Valenciennes, Point de  Paris etc. Like, are the books by Vera 
Cockuyt any good? I have the book  on Valenciennes by Annick Staes, and I 
will see if I can figure any of it  out this weekend, but I find it hard 
to get around in the book, since it  has 4 languages, so have to page 
through quite a bit to get to the next  instructionsI guess maybe 
I'll copy the English pages and put them in  a binder, might be easier to 
find my way around.

I am probably  going to have to wait a while with buying any books, 
unless I can get them  from our one and only Canadian dealer, since our 
dollar has dropped  considerably against all currencies, like the Euro 
was worth CAD$1.32 a  month ago, now it is over 1.40, and the pound was 
around 1.90, and now is  over 2.00 (and 6 months ago it was around 
$1.60). It's the reliance on oil  export that is killing our economy 
right now.

But in the meantime I  would like to know which books are good for 
learning these laces. I have  been burned before with buying books that 
ended up being useless, one of  the detriments of not being able to see 
the actual  book.

*Marianne*

Marianne  Gallant
m...@shaw.ca
threadsnminis.blogspot.ca

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Re: [lace] Lace timeline Purls

[Dmt11home]

Glad you liked the Gwynne book. I thought that there was a simple time line
 in it, but when I looked, instead I found the more complex one about
historical  and artistic influences. So, thank you for drawing my attention to
the simple  time line. It is certainly a gem.
Devon


In a message dated 7/16/2015 5:22:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
hottl...@neo.rr.com writes:

Hello  All!  Arachne--what an embarrassment of riches!  As usual I can't
thank you enough for all the help, resources  encouragement.  Jean,  mea
culpa  déjà vu!  I vaguely remember reading the article you  referenced.  How
could I have forgotten!  It's a quick read   hits all the high spots.
Thank you for jogging my foggy brain.  It  truly deserves a professional print

spiral binding.  Devon, thank  you for introducing me to Judyth Gwynne!
The Illustrated Dictionary of  Lace text  photos are lovely but the table
showing the historical   artistic influences on lace is quite something to
behold.  Context!   And at the end, on pg222, is the simple timeline I was
seeking!  After  spending the better part of two days cross referencing the
Lace
app with  Lorelei's site  other online resources, I culled nine pages of
notes to  boil down into a useable chart.  Mine will probably be color coded
with a  legend for distinctive characteristics.  While I don't expect it to
be  particularly scholarly, I do hope it will be useful for demos etc. to
help  me ( others) visualize how we got to where we are today.  I must
have been channeling Jean because I actually subdivided the laces in a similar
way to the DATS article she mentioned.  My understanding of Venetian  
Normandy lace is much improved; other areas need more study.   Lorelei, the
Lace For Study link is fab!  One can never have too many  pictures of
exquisite
lace  these have size references.  Thank  you--how thoughtful  relevant!
Last but not least, Alex Stillwell's  Cassell Illustrated Dictionary also
arrived from interlibrary loan.  I  would describe this book as Therese de
Dillmont meets Pamela Nottingham!   Lots of terms with diagrams--oh my!  Just
flipping thru, I stumbled upon  forgotten purls.  Does this refer to a
method for fixing a piece of  lace that has lost (or forgotten) its picots?
If so, perhaps there is  hope for a piece I made many years ago.  Dare I
mention that, with these  resources alone, I now have newsletter fodder for
several months!  Every  newsletter needs an educational tidbit  I can hardly
wait to share.   Sincerely, Susan Hottle, Erie, PA USA, where it's been a
great day for  lace!

Sent from my iPad

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[lace] Lace history timeline

[Dmt11home]

Perhaps one would like something more elaborate, but there is a bit of a  
timeline in The Illustrated History of Lace by Judyth L. Gwynne, p. 212-217. 
It  is called Table Showing the Historical and Artistic Influences on the  
Development of Lace and Lace Design over the Centuries. For those who like 
maps,  the table is followed by two maps, one of Lace Making Towns in the UK, 
and the  other Lace Making Towns in Europe c1914.
Devon
PS. I note with satisfaction that it mentions: 1860 Fern Designs seen in  
lace, embroidery, etc

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[lace] Lace history timeline-correction

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It is in the Illustrated Dictionary of Lace, by Gwynne, not the  
Illustrated History of Lace. Thanks to Adele Shaak for drawing my attention to  
this 
error.
Devon

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Re: [lace] Needle lace resources?

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I would check Patricia Wardle's Victorian Lace, and Santina Levey in that  
era. Also, look for motifs on the huge triangular shawls that were made to 
fit  over the hoop skirts. Ribbon designs were very popular as were oval 
motifs and  ferns. What is the purpose of your inquiry?
Devon

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[lace] International Lace Day-purpose of question

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I was thinking of proposing that a certain museum key their object of the  
day to the International Lace Day, ie. make one of our lacemaker 
paintings, or  even a piece of lace to be object of the day. However, I am not 
convinced  that June 21st is sufficiently well accepted that a third party  
would 
find it compelling since it seems to emanate from one museum, and  that a 
rather obscure one.
In fact, the museum I have in mind is soliciting suggestions for July,  
although I don't think that there is a particular date in July that I could  
associate with lacemaking. Can anyone else think of one? Clearly there is a  
lot of art that could relate to Bastille Day, for instance, so a more obscure 
 day would be better. (An example given for object of the day is a bust of 
Julius  Caesar for March 15-the ides of March.)
But, failing to identify a day in July, I could make a general suggestion  
and perhaps they would take it into account. What day should I propose for a 
 lace theme? Possibly St. Catherine's Day? If so, when is it, and what 
argument  could be made, or documentation provided that would appeal to a 
museum?
Devon

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Re: [lace] June 21 International Lace Day

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What is the source for this information? I would like to share it, but I  
would like to know who established it, and where others could confirm it.
Devon
 
 
bespokethreadsandya...@gmail.com writes:

This is  published on facebook. The idea is to make lace in public.  

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[lace] Museum Kantfabriek in Horst-Int. Lace Day

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I have gone to the website both Sue and Carolina sent, the Museum  
Kantfabriek in Horst. Has anyone visited this museum? It looks, from the  
website, 
as though the emphasis is on machine made lace. There is a video that  has 
machines working, but also what appears to be some kind of lace day with  
lacemakers.
I am wondering how widespread the celebration of this International Lace  
Day is, and how well known it is among hand lacemakers. Are all the Dutch  
lacemakers participating in this?
Also, is it every year on June 21, or is it the fourth Sunday in June or  
some other formula?
Devon

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Re: [lace] Copying a brown pattern-clear contact paper

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Blue film is no longer being made. Vendors are offering a gray instead. The 
 gray contact paper is expensive just as the blue was. But why not switch 
to  clear matte which is very inexpensive and sold all over instead? 
 
Clear matte contact paper sells for $6.86 for an 18 inch by 9  foot roll at 
Amazon which will probably last most people for the rest of their  lives. 
This is about the same price as a single small sheet of gray  contact paper.  
Also since the contact paper is so cheap, you buy it by the  roll, not the 
piece, and it stays nice and flat on the roll so there is less  wastage.
 
Now that it is impossible to obtain blue contact paper, I wish  that 
teachers in the US would establish the practice of copying patterns for  white 
lace onto blue paper or card. Does it make any sense to continue a  practice 
that requires everyone in a class to have something that is no  longer 
manufactured? 
 
I sincerely think that the reason that blue contact paper  isn't being made 
anymore is due to the fact that copies on colored paper are so  easy and 
inexpensive to make that there is no market for it outside the  lace world. 
 
When I started making lace the teacher gave you a pricking on  brown card 
that she had pricked through another pricking. Then photocopying was  
invented but only on white paper and we put blue film over the white photocopy. 
 
Now, it is just as easy to make a colored copy as a white one, but it is  
impossible to buy blue film. I think it is time to change with technology again 
 
as lacemakers have done throughout history.
 
If I am going to search the world over for an  exotic, expensive and hard 
to obtain item, I would rather it was  thread or bobbins.
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] 1931 lace making clip

[Dmt11home]

Oops. The piece with the tallies has the 5 nine-pin motifs per  scallop.
 
 
In a message dated 5/25/2015 2:07:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
dmt11h...@aol.com writes:

Am I the only person who sees two different, although similar, pieces of  
lace being made in this clip. One of them has tallies, and 3 nine-pin  edging 
things on each head side scallop and is made on a pillow with a  strong 
strip pattern. The other has 5 nine-pin edging things on each scallop  and no 
tallies that I can see, and the pillow is light colored.
Devon

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Re: [lace] 1931 lace making clip

[Dmt11home]

Am I the only person who sees two different, although similar, pieces of  
lace being made in this clip. One of them has tallies, and 3 nine-pin  edging 
things on each head side scallop and is made on a pillow with a  strong 
strip pattern. The other has 5 nine-pin edging things on each scallop and  no 
tallies that I can see, and the pillow is light colored.
Devon

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[lace] South Devon/Colyton

[Dmt11home]

According to the Devon Lace Teachers website there was a lace called  
Colyton Chromatic, a colored lace. There is a photo of Colyton Chromatic on  
their website:
 
http://www.devonlaceteachers.co.uk/devon-laces.html
 
Wouldn't it be interesting if your ancestors made this unusual lace.  
According to the website, a piece was entered for the Great Exhibition of 1851  
and there is an example of Colyton Chromatic at the Victoria and Albert.
 
Devon
 
 
 
They lived in a village called Colyton 
Raleigh (I am not  sure how it is spelt now).  We hoped we might find out 
details of the  sort of lace she might have made but of course we never 
found 
any  information about that.  It was a lovely connection and yes we enjoyed 
 
the countryside around there.

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Re: [lace] Re Museums and other places in South Devon

[Dmt11home]

Dear Brian,
Was it Take the Children, The Life of the Lace Girls Working in Honiton and 
 the East Midlands Districts, from Evidence Given to John Edward White, 
M.A. for  the 1862 Royal Commission, published by Alan Brown. I had forgotten 
about this  book. I must reread it! 
Your trip sounds delightful. Maybe it is Beer or Sidmouth, rather than  
Ottery St. Mary that I should go to for local color.
I am totally confused about the Royal Albert Memorial Museum of Art in  
Exeter. Speaking from the stand point of a total outsider, it sounds as though  
it might not be a branch of the VA, since the name is different. I don't  
find it odd that someone as influential as Prince Albert might be honored 
with  two museums.
I, too, was surprised to read the terms of the Open Access for Scholarly  
Content initiative. Wow! The Met leads the way once again! I hope other 
museums  will follow their lead. Here are the details for those who are 
interested
http://www.metmuseum.org/research/image-resources/frequently-asked-questions
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Ottery St. Mary, UK

[Dmt11home]

Helene wrote:
I have visited All Hallows Museum in Honiton many years ago, what  a
wonderful experience. Don't know if is still available, but I bought
a  book 450 Years of Lace with its accompanying CD. Every time I
look at it I  remember the enjoyable day I had in Devon.

I agree that the All Hallows Museum in Honiton is great! I had  a wonderful 
day there several years ago. I definitely think that Meghann  McCrory 
should see if she can get down there on her travels, assuming there is  time. 
It 
is yet another example of a small museum where a lot of lace is on  display. 
Sometimes these small museums provide a much better lace experience  than 
larger museums which try to show a wider variety of artifacts.  
Unfortunately, they are often outside of the major cities that tourists are 
most  
likely to visit.
 
Unfortunately, when I visited Honiton, I drove right past the Exeter Museum 
 without realizing what I was missing. So, I am thinking about returning to 
the  area in order to see the Exeter Museum and perhaps have a cream tea. 
There are a  lot of little villages in Devon and in Cornwall that appear to 
be quite  beautiful and I was thinking to stop in at a few and wondered if 
Ottery St. Mary  had anything interesting in it. I love the name.
 
Devon Thein
(Yes, I was actually named after the county.)

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[lace] National Museum of Ireland

[Dmt11home]

Is anyone familiar with lace in the National Museum of Ireland? According  
to the website: 
 
This  collection consists of Irish and European lace accessories ranging 
from the 17th  Century to the early 20th Century. The collection of Irish lace 
and lace designs  is strong from the mid 19th to the mid 20th Century, when 
specimens were  purchased by the Museum directly from lace schools, 
co-operatives and Industrial  Exhibitions across the country
 
I would be interested to hear from anyone who has knowledge of what is on  
display or other access. I am very interested in learning about the lace  
industries of Ireland, especially the needle lace of the 19th century. 
 
Devon Thein
(in New Jersey)
 
 
.

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[lace] Exeter Museum

[Dmt11home]

I am very interested in visiting the Exeter Museum. I would like to see the 
 samples of Mrs. Treadwin's work in an effort to understand if there are 
pieces  in US museums that came from her enterprises. I would also like to 
know what  else is there.
Has anyone been there recently? Can you fill me in on what is available and 
 what the access is like?
Devon
(in New Jersey)

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Re: [lace] Trip to Europe - lace museums/centers to visit?

[Dmt11home]

Dear Janice,
Although it is not all that close to Zurich (55 minutes by car according to 
 googlemaps) there is a lace museum in St. Gallen, Switzerland that has 
been on  my bucket list for some time. It has pieces of hand made lace that  
were collected by the Ikle family who produced Schiffli lace. The books of the 
 late 19th and early 20th century have many examples from this collection 
which  had some very famous pieces. Some were sold, but some remain. The 
collection is  not online, but there was a Gros Point symposium held in St. 
Gallen a few years  ago and images from a special display were very exciting. 
Perhaps there might be the makings of an article for the IOLI  Bulletin!
Devon

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Re: [lace] Trip to Europe - Abegg Stiftung museum

[Dmt11home]

Dear Janice,
Another place that is in Switzerland, although an hour away from Zurich,  
that I would like to visit is the Abegg Stiftung 
http://www.abegg-stiftung.ch/e/museum/museum_d.html
It is not clear to me whether they have lace there, however, it is the  
place of origin of Apropos Patterns for Lace and Embroidery which deals with 
the  early lace and embroidery pattern books and shows examples, frequently of 
lace,  to illustrate them.
Devon

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Re: [lace] Trip to Europe - lace museums/centers to visit?

[Dmt11home]

Dear Meghann,

Having sent you to Laurie's site, I am surprised to see that she didn't  
include the Museum of Costume and Lace in Brussels.

http://www.brusselsmuseums.be/en/museum/76-museum-of-costume--lace-museums-
of-the-city-of-brussels

The Kantcentrum in Bruges used to have a display. I am not sure what is  
going on there since it changed hands. 
The flax museum in Kortrijk near Bruges is very good.
There was a small museum over the Rococo lace shop in Bruges. There are  
occasional lace making demos outside lace shops.

Of the Italian museums I recommend the one on Burano, recently redone, if  
you see no other. Sometimes there is a lace demo there. The Palazzo 
Davanzati in  Florence has only just redone its lace room and is very good. I 
always 
like the  Poldi Pezzoli in Milan. The lace is entirely in an 
unprepossessing metal  storage/display thing in an unvisited hallway, but once 
you find it 
you can pull  out the drawers, and leaf through the upright framed display 
items to your  heart's content. You may have to ask where it is.

Devon

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Re: [lace] Trip to Europe - V A?

[Dmt11home]

Dear Meghann
It is my impression that the V  A no longer has lace in it. Instead it  is 
in a study center not centrally located in London. I am unsure what kind of 
 access there is there.
You mention a lot of countries in your email, but it is unclear how long  
you are going to be traveling in the countries, what cities you are going to 
be  near. and what kind of transport you will have. In reality, it would  
take a very long time for someone to try to write out all the museums that  
have something to do with lace in Belgium and Italy.  Perhaps a first step  
would be to go to the Pinterest site maintained by Laurie Waters which has 
Lace  Museums by country and do a little scoping out.  
https://www.pinterest.com/LaceNews/   Things change all the time with lace 
museums, exhibits come 
down, museums close,  so it is always best to check for  the most up to date 
information and to  confirm with an email. Even when a museum has a lace 
collection, it is not at  all unusual for none of it to be on display.
Also, Laurie maintains a site: Lacenews.net where she keeps track of lace  
events all over the world which you might find useful.
Devon

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[lace] Ottery St. Mary, UK

[Dmt11home]

Is there anything to see in Ottery St. Mary for the lace enthusiast? It was 
 home to a lot of lacemakers, I know. 
Devon Thein

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[lace] Re: Cotona 50=Tanne 50

[Dmt11home]

Jane wrote:

I think, if I remember correctly from the talk Brenda  referred to, that 
the main purpose for the thread being produced is for use in  clothing 
manufacture, so the colours available at any time are mostly dictated  by the 
fashion industry. Our use, and that of quilters and machine  embroiderers, is a 
secondary opportunity for sales of the  threads.
This is why I was wondering if the colors of the threads were following  
trends set by the Pantone Colors which appear to be some kind of fashion  
industry directive about what colors will be popular in a given year. For  
instance here is what we can look forward to for Spring 2015. 
http://www.robinsclosetboutique.com/spring-2015-pantone-color-report
 
I don't know if keeping current with the Pantone colors would require  
frequent adjustment of a stock of colors or only very infrequent additions and  
subtractions, since I am not much of a fashion maven. On the internet there 
are  a few breathless announcements of newly introduced colors, and others 
that  have been discontinued.
 
However, the thread is being promoted as for quilting. From my extensive  
research into this thread it becomes apparent that, at least for purposes of  
home sewing, people are not using 100% cotton thread (as in my youth) any  
more. It is all this polyester stuff. I don't know about for clothing  
manufacturing. But it seems that cotton thread is now a specialty product,  
equivalent to Godiva chocolates, only for the very discerning client. So, is it 
 
necessarily the case that its production is following fashion industry 
trends? I  suppose that you might say that quilts are items of home decor and 
that home  quilters are quite likely calling for the colors on the Pantone 
color  report consciously or unconsciously. Also, quite likely quilt fabrics 
are 
 following these trends, although they seem timeless to me.
 
I guess the good news is that there is a new and ready supply of Madiera  
and since many of the colors are shades that are different than the ones I 
have,  there is the potential to have way more than 120 colors to play around  
with.
 
Devon

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[lace] Madiera Cotona 50=Madiera Tanne 50?

[Dmt11home]

After a tremendous amount of input from fellow arachnids, including Jacquie 
 Tinch who actually pursued the issue with a Madiera representative, it 
sounds as  though Madiera Cotona 50 is actually the same as Madiera Tanne 50. 
If so, then I  have a source for replacing threads in my Madiera Tanne set. 
The concept is that  the Cotona is on a spool, rather than the way that the 
Tanne was done wrapped  around a cardboard cylinder.
 
Interestingly, it seems from internet research that the Cotona 50 was  
introduced in 2013, which I think means there was quite a gap between when 
Tanne 
 50 disappeared and when Cotona 50 appeared. I recall trying some Cotona 30 
at  one point and thinking it was a bit too fluffy, so I never really 
investigated  further. But, now I have ordered some of the Cotona 50 and from a 
visual  inspection, and also attempting to wind it on a pencil, it seems just 
like the  Madiera Tanne. The color numbers seem to be analogous. Also, of 
the 120 or so  colors now available, many of them seem to be intervening 
numbers in the series  that I already have.
 
As an experiment, I ordered all the greens available in the Madiera Cotona  
50 that I didn't have in the Madiera Tanne 50. Now I have 25 different 
greens.  Also the green (or actually mustard) number 575 that I was concerned 
about  replacing seems to be be pretty much the same color. I  haven't worked 
with  the threads, so I don't really know if they work the same. 
 
I posted a picture of the combined Madiera Tanne and Cotona greens in  
numerical order on http://laceioli.ning.com/group/threads if  you want to see 
all 25 together. The first two are the same color, 575.
 
If anyone has any experience with Madiera Cotona 50, I would be  interested 
to hear it.
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Searching for DMC Broder Machine in colors

[Dmt11home]

What an incredible amount of help this request has generated!  I have
learned so much. Thanks to everyone who responded, many of whom responded
privately.

Although I had been pursuing the thread before, I had stepped  up my
efforts this week because I am going to a contemporary lace class this
weekend
that invited people to bring thread to experiment with.

Sifting through the information that I have received, I am  planning to
call a few stores and see if I can find the Aurifil, or failing  that, the
Mettler, although one source said the Mettler 60 sometimes untwisted  and then
shredded during sewings. Incredibly, the Aurifil website says  explicitly
under the heading lace, 50 weight is a wonder for both bobbin lace  and
machine lace.

I was wondering about the threads that are 3 ply. I once did a  piece of
needle lace with a three ply thread and it didn't turn out well. It  curled
up. I have had sort of a prejudice against 3 ply threads since then, so  the
two ply threads that Brenda confirms squash down sound more appealing to me
than the three ply ones, even though this isn't needle lace.
According to the DMC website, DMC developed a left twist  thread which is
ideally suited on all makes of sewing machine. I was wondering  if this was
a claim that had any special significance for the makers of bobbin  lace,
since everyone confirms it to be a good thread for bobbin lace. Or perhaps
all machine embroidery thread is left twist, whatever that means.

The Aurifil claims to have 270 colors, whereas the DMC claims  to have 132
according to my brochure.
An undated internet article ominously entitled The Notorious  DMC Machine
Embroidery Thread Situation...
http://www.vsccs.com/Hints-Info/MachineEmbroideryThread.htm

reveals that DMC had eliminated about half of its 250 colors  in the number
50 Cotton Machine Embroidery thread at some point.

Many of my sources confided to me that they frequent garage  sales trying
to buy second hand partially used spools of DMC Machine Embroidery  thread.
Some report delight at buying a stash at a going out of business sale  for a
quilt store or finding some while on vacation in another country.  Others
report sorrow at the closure of a store that once carried the  thread.  I find
this alarming on two fronts. One is that it looks like the  thread is
increasingly unavailable and unsupported by DMC, the other is that the  thread
is
so desirable that people are scouring garage sales, going out of  business
sales, and diving into needlework stores while on vacation to find the
thread. It must be some great thread. No one has a bad word to say about it.

I have the complete set of Madiera Tanne, much of it never  used, but some
colors, notably a particularly useful green, run out. I really  enjoy going
to this stash and experimenting with the colors. But with likely  downsizing
in the future, I was hoping to find a thread that I could, while in  the
throws of creative excitement, visually inspect in a store, not via a  printed
or digital color card,  and then buy the colors that I thought went
together and buy only them. What a novel idea, but perhaps  unrealistic.

Thanks to all for your help in this line of  inquiry!
Devon









In a message dated 3/17/2015 6:48:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
paternos...@appleshack.com writes:

Hi Devon


Madeira Tanne - 2Z-39 w/cm.
DMC Broder Machine - 2Z-42 w/cm


The only other current threads in the same sort of thickness and  available
in colours, that I know of, are:
Aurifil Mako 50wt - 2Z-40w/cm
http://www.aurifil.com/products/cotton-50


or
Superior Threads Masterpiece - which I have listed as 2Z-38 w/cm, but
according to their website only the pre-wound bobbins (sewing machine bobbins)
are 50/2.  The reels and cones are 50/3, I haven’t yet seen any of  that
http://www.superiorthreads.com/product/brand/masterpiece/


Brenda




I  have been enjoying my complete set of Madiera Tanne 50 that  I  bought
many  years ago in order to have a huge palette of colors for creative
work  in
bobbin  lace. But unfortunately, some colors are becoming depleted and
Madiera  Tanne 50  is no longer being made. I asked Holly Van Sciver about
a
replacement  that would serve the same purpose and she said that she
thought that
DMC  Cotton Machine Embroidery Thread, size 50 weight, (Broder Machine) was
what  I was looking for, but that she did not carry  it.





Brenda  in Allhallows
_paternoster@appleshack.com_ (mailto:paternos...@appleshack.com)
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk










=

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[lace] Searching for DMC Broder Machine in colors

[Dmt11home]

Fellow Spiders, 
 
I have been enjoying my complete set of Madiera Tanne 50 that  I bought 
many years ago in order to have a huge palette of colors for creative  work in 
bobbin lace. But unfortunately, some colors are becoming depleted and  
Madiera Tanne 50  is no longer being made. I asked Holly Van Sciver about a  
replacement that would serve the same purpose and she said that she thought 
that 
 DMC Cotton Machine Embroidery Thread, size 50 weight, (Broder Machine) was 
 what I was looking for, but that she did not carry it. This is a 100% 
cotton  thread in many colors. My impression from speaking to her was that the  
thread was so generic and universally available that it wasn't something 
that a  vendor who dealt in difficult to obtain specialty lace threads would 
want to  carry, so I didn't think it would be too hard to find it.
 
However, the store locater at the DMC website is useless  since it only 
tells you what stores carry any DMC product, such as the  universally available 
floss. In fact, after visiting Michael's Craft  store to see if their DMC 
offerings included DMC Cotton Machine  Embroidery Thread, it seemed to me 
that the DMC locater was more likely to  produce red herrings in the form of 
cheap craft stores, and high end embroidery  stores than to yield the thread I 
was looking for. 
 
I contacted DMC via the questions area of their website,  although they are 
physically located in Elizabeth, NJ, but a stone's throw  from my house, in 
an effort to find out if I could buy the thread locally. My  (hopelessly 
outdated?) concept was that it would be nice to walk into  a store, look at 
the thread, and buy a few spools, since what I think we are  talking about 
here is what used to be just cotton sewing thread such as we all  bought for 
sewing back in the day. Maybe I am wrong. Of course, now sewing  thread is 
polyester, so not necessarily what you want for heirloom (?) bobbin  lace. I 
was hoping that I would not have to get involved in mail order. After a  
prolonged email correspondence with DMC which included them sending to me  via 
snail mail a nice brochure with a color chart confirming that there are a  lot 
of lovely colors in the Machine Embroidery line, DMC told me to call a 
phone  number in Florida for a place called Hamburg House and that they would 
be 
able  to tell me where to buy the thread. I called the number and they were 
utterly  puzzled about why it had been given to me, since they are only 
fellow customers  of DMC. We had a good laugh.
 
Not deterred, I called a quilting  store that I know of, but they only have 
hand quilting thread. I asked the  quilting store lady about whether she 
thought Jo-Ann fabrics would have it,  and the woman at the quilting store 
said she knew for a fact that Jo-Ann didn't  carry any DMC, only Coats and 
Clark. I have tried to call Jo Ann fabrics,  the nearest one being somewhat 
farther than I want to drive on spec, but they  didn't answer the phone. Nearer 
to me, it seems that most of the fabric stores  are ones that sell only 
upholstery fabrics.
 
I would be grateful for any thoughts about where DMC Cotton  Machine 
Embroidery thread could be found, as I am beginning to think that I  am 
overlooking some obvious source. Also, if anyone has tried the  thread for 
creative 
bobbin lace, is the search actually worthwhile?
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Searching for DMC Broder Machine in colors

[Dmt11home]

Thanks for all the many good ideas. I was not really thinking  that this 
would be a grail like search. How amazing! Mind you, I live in a  highly 
populated area where almost anything is available. On top of that, I  live in 
an 
area that characterized as the Embroidery Capital of the World,  and that 
refers to the machine embroidery industry of New Jersey. It is also  home to 
the US headquarters of DMC in Kearny, NJ. Coats and Clark opened  its first 
US plant in Newark in 1866. The thought that I would have to mail  order DMC 
number 50 machine embroidery thread from the various sources, in  Colorado, 
Maine, etc. is amazing. I just called the Paramus, NJ,  Sewing  Center, a 
business specializing in machine embroidery machines, where for  the first 
time I encountered someone who actually knows of the thread. He claims  it is 
an item that I would probably have to go into the city, meaning NY, for.  
He says it is very low volume and that it wouldn't pay for him to carry it. 
One  truly wonders why it is worthwhile to DMC to publish a beautiful full 
color  brochure with all 132 colors for the thread when it is so low volume as 
to  be virtually unobtainable other than by mail order. It just seems so 
odd to have  to pay shipping costs on a spool of thread that costs about 4 
dollars and  doesn't seem all that special. 
As Bev suggests, I should probably find some 100% cotton  thread that is 
obtainable in a fabric store. Maybe I can find the Mettler that  she refers 
to. A lot of stores here seem to carry Coats and Clark. Maybe they  have a 
100% cotton thread in a lot of colors. What are other people using now  instead 
of Madiera Tanne 50 for colors?
 
Devon

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[lace] DMC Machine Embroidery thread

[Dmt11home]

In case anyone else is interested... I heard from a very  distinguished 
lace teacher and she says the DMC Machine Embroidery thread is  superior to the 
Madiera that I have, and well worth the search, but it is  practically 
impossible for her to obtain in England. I was sort of hoping that  it would 
turn out it wasn't worth the search, but she says that it is her  favorite for 
hinjosa and Idrija lace. Sigh.
Privately, I have heard that it is obtainable from  Createforless.com, and 
http://www.discountembroiderysupply.com/Dmc-Cotton-Machine-Embroidery-Thread
-Recommended-By-Sharon-Schamber.  The Createforless.com site might be 
easier to use because it shows the colors  with the numbers. 
Amazon also lists it, but when you look closely, you can see that they are  
really sending you to Create for Less.
With any of these sites it would probably help to have the lovely color  
chart brochure available from DMC because that is the only way of seeing  all 
the colors arranged by shade.
Devon

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[lace] Contemporary Lace Panel Discussion

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I  feel very honored to have been asked to participate in a panel 
discussion about  Contemporary Lace. It will be moderated by Crystal Gregory 
who is 
displaying  some contemporary lace works in the exhibit Here Whether There. A
ny  arachnids in the area are welcome to attend, details below. 
Devon 
As  a part of the programing for the exhibition Here Whether There Solo(s)  
Project House is pleased to invite you to Following a New Thread Line a 
Discussion on Contemporary Lace (NJ/NYC) 
Following  a New Thread Line 
Discussion  on Contemporary Lace (NJ/NYC)
March 28th, 2015 
3 -  5pm

_SOLO(s)  PROJECT HOUSE_ 
(https://www.facebook.com/pages/SOLOs-PROJECT-HOUSE/306936386693) 
972  Broad St. 
Newark, New Jersey 07102

#solosprojecthouse
_www.solosprojecthouse.com_ (http://www.solosprojecthouse.com/)   

A new horizon in an old tradition is taking shape. Artists are finding  new 
inspiration in the complicated systems of traditional lace making;working  
laces in an untraditional fashion, expanding on its histories, and drawing  
conceptual conclusions of an age old medium. Solo(s)House Project is pleased 
to  welcome a curated discussion of contemporary lace in and around in New 
York and  New Jersey. Following a New Thread is part of current residency 
program, HERE  WHETHER THERE. 

Participants Include:
Devon Thein, Lace Historian,  Critic, Lacemaker
Manca Ahlin, Architect, Designer, Lacemaker
Kaelyn  Garcia, Artist, Designer, Lacemaker
J Carpenter, Artist, Lacemaker
Susie  Silbert, Curator, Design Historian
Moderated by Crystal  Gregory

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[lace] What is a vectorized lace pattern?

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I have been asked what a vectorized lace pattern is. I have no  idea what 
it is. Does anyone know?
Devon

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[lace] Apolgies for not trimming

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Hit the send button too fast, sorry.
Devon

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Re: [lace] Piece for sale

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Hi All, This is lovely. In the  interest of learning more about lace, for
some reason it looks like chemical  lace to me. What do others think?
 
I agree. 
 
Devon




In a message dated 2/20/2015 9:34:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jvik...@sover.net writes:

Hi  All,  This is lovely.  In the interest of learning more about lace,  for
some reason it looks like chemical lace to me.  What do others  think?

Thanks for sharing this Maxine!

Jane in Vermont, USA  where I'm glad when it gets to 1oF!  It's been  cold.
jvik...@sover.net

 I saw this today - it looks  lovely.

  http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=849106208

 If anybody is  interested, I am willing to bid on your behalf, to your
  instructions

 Regards
 Maxine



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Re: [lace] major disaster

[Dmt11home]

It is my feeling that it is time to admit that the amount of  effort 
required to complete this piece of lace and to afix it to an antique tray  
cloth 
that has waited for 25 years to be trimmed is excessive. Clearly this is  
some kind of exercise in sentiment with huge emotional content, not the mere  
production of a tray cloth. 
 
I think that you should buy a shadow box and then artfully  arrange the 
lace, with or without the tray cloth, in the box so that  the best parts are 
prominently displayed and the worst parts are  concealed somewhere in the 
rear. Careful arranging, possibly in casual  folds (held in place with a few 
stitches if necessary) could obscure the  difference in size between the sides. 
You could have a nice card in the box,  possibly done in calligraphy, 
describing any salient facts about the piece, such  as the 25 years it took to 
produce and the fact that it was completed by a  different person than the one 
who started it. Maybe you could even put a couple  of the bobbins used to 
produce it in the box. If it were me, I would enjoy  looking at it in the box 
more than I would enjoy using a tray cloth. After all,  if the cloth has to 
be laundered all the picots will have to be pinned  out again. 
 
Devon
lazy as ever

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Re: [lace] Re: Book reviews

[Dmt11home]

By the way, I'm quoting correspondence from several lace book  authors and
one major book publisher regarding writing a positive review in  return for
having their book(s) in the library.
 
If the book has been given in  return for writing a positive review, 
shouldn't there be a disclaimer? I have  always been under the impression that 
the 
review was being written for the  benefit of those subscribing to the 
magazine, not as a paid advertisement  intended to benefit the author and 
possibly the club library. If those people  who pay for the magazine are not 
the 
intended beneficiaries of the review then  they should realize this. In 
fact, perhaps the review should appear on a page  designated for advertisements 
or the editor could box the review, with a  notation that this positive 
review was written in return for a copy of the book  to be put in our librar
y.
 
Arguably, a book donated with the explicit requirement of a  positive 
review should be returned, unread, to the author or major book  publisher with 
a 
note about the journalistic integrity of the publication.  Otherwise the 
readers of the publication have no reason to believe any of the  reviews. The 
ruse of trading a book for a positive review only works when the  readership 
thinks the process isn't rigged. The reader places greater  trust in the 
review than in an advertisement because they  believe a review is impartial and 
written for the benefit of the  reader. An advertisement has less impact.
 
When the author suggests that the book is being donated in  return for a 
positive review, the answer should be, We cannot promise a  positive review. 
Do you want us to return the book, or would you like us to  review it? I 
would imagine most authors would prefer to have the free exposure  of the book 
in the content area of the magazine rather than none, as in  there is no 
such thing as bad publicity. Even a negative review often  contains 
information in it that may signal that the book would be of  interest to some 
readers. Likewise, the presence of the book in the library is a  form of 
exposure 
in that it allows readers to evaluate it themselves and buy it  if they 
think it suits their needs. 
 
Of course, if the author doesn't want to take the chance of a  poor review, 
but does want to inform the lace community of the  book's existence, there 
is always the option of paying for an  advertisement, properly understood to 
be an advertisement, instead.
 
If people think that the content of the magazine is not  being written for 
the benefit of the readers why would they pay to  subscribe to the magazine? 
You don't pay to subscribe to an advertising  circular.
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] New York lace groups and shopping

[Dmt11home]

I feel I must correct the impression that there is a Lace  Study Center at 
the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Dawn has visited the Antonio  Ratti Textile 
Center. Perhaps Anna (from Sidney) and I could correspond  privately about 
how to view textiles there if she has something she wants to  study. 
 
Recently the Cooper-Hewitt has reopened after a massive  renovation. I went 
right over to see if any of their 2500 pieces of lace had  been put on 
display. To my pleasant surprise there are about 10 pieces on  display, which 
is 
quite a lot to have on public display in New York. There is an  exhibition 
on the second floor of the museum dealing with the collecting habits  of the 
Hewitt sisters who started the museum back in the day when lace was more  
properly prioritized. So there are a number of pieces in this exhibit, along  
with some material about the Needle and Bobbin Club. Also on the second 
floor  there is an exhibit whose educational thrust seems to be to group items 
of the  same color together. In this exhibit there is a chantilly parasol 
displayed next  to a silhouette and a collection of 17th century white tassels 
against a  white background. There is also a many time published cravat 
featuring people  playing musical instruments in very fine needle lace which 
was reputedly made  for the wedding of the Duke of Burgundy and Marie Adelaide 
of Savoy displayed  against a white background. Regrettably it is very 
difficult to see the  intricacy of the stitches and the beauty of the design 
with it displayed against  white. 
https://collection.cooperhewitt.org/objects/18444505/
 
Perhaps Anna would like to eat at the Stix restaurant at the  Indigo Hotel. 
It has recently had a lace installation, a large screen, put  in it by 
artist Manca Ahlen. You can view it here 
http://design.mantzalin.com/portfolio-items/stix-lace-screen/
 
Unfortunately, for the city that has everything, there isn't  any store 
selling lace supplies that I know about. However for people who want  to walk 
on the wild side, fiberwise, there is an exotic thread store, Habu  textiles. 
http://habutextiles.com/
 
Regarding lace groups, there are a couple in New Jersey, and I  am copying 
this to them, but it is a bit of a distance and I don't know that any  
rendezvous would be possible. 
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Preferred cloth size

[Dmt11home]

Since making lace is very time consuming, I would go for the  smallest 
cloth possible. I recommend a chalice cover on the  theory that prior to 
coasters, that was one of the smallest things you  could trim with lace. 
 
Devon
In cold New Jersey

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Re: [lace] Simple needlelace question

[Dmt11home]

Helen writes:
 
 
[I've received conflicting answers from 'experts' so I'm now  confused. 
When you are making the 'buttonhole' stitch from right to left, is it  supposed 
to look identical to when made from left to right or is it supposed to  be 
the opposite? ]

 
It is true, as several have  commented, that the stitch will look different 
when done in the opposite  direction. However, it is often the practice 
after working a row, to take the  thread back to the beginning of the row using 
a straight return or a whipped  return. This means that you don't 
stitch back in the opposite direction, you  just take the thread back. Then you 
work the next row of stitches in the same  direction as the previous one, 
often enclosing the return thread. So when you  look at a piece of needle lace 
all the stitches may appear identical because  they have all been worked in 
the same direction. 
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Kazaman Spam?

[Dmt11home]

Maybe you should try changing your password to see if that has  any impact.
Devon

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Re: [lace] Kazaman Spam?

[Dmt11home]

You are right, Ruth. The tip off to when you have actually  been hacked is 
when you start receiving all the can't deliver mail messages  from all the 
outdated email addresses in your address book. I have had that  happen to 
me and changing the password did stop it. But if, as you say, this  other 
thing is happening, that won't help. 
 
I guess it is just part of the annoyance of receiving email  that you 
receive emails that look like they are from people you know who  breathlessly 
want to acquaint you with some wonderful website. Since people I  know never 
exhibit that behavior, I just blow all those away.
 
Devon

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[lace] Opening tomorrow-Olivia Valentine lace artist

[Dmt11home]

Tomorrow night lace enthusiasts in the vicinity of Richmond,  VA will have 
the opportunity to attend an opening at Wilton House, an historic  house 
maintained by the Colonial Dames, of the exhibit, Anywhere but Now.  The 
opening, 6-8, free to the public, will usher in the exhibition which  will be 
up 
until Jan. 15th, so there will be time to see if even if you don't go  to the 
opening.
 
Details of the opening are here: 
http://www.wiltonhousemuseum.org/event/openingreception
 
Olivia Valentine was a finalist in the LoveLace exhibit in  Australia. Her 
work in the LoveLace exhibit, as well as the Wilton House exhibit  uses 
bobbin lace technique with an architectural bent. There is an interview  with 
her at the following site, and also, what I think may be the Wilton House  
work in progress. The piece is based on the architecture of Wilton  House.
 
http://www.sculpturespace.org/sculpt-summerfall-2014/
 
Perhaps somebody would be interested to attend and tell us how  the work is 
being received by the public.
 
It is an exciting time, as bobbin lace is moving into the  studio as fiber 
art. Perhaps it would be fitting to go to the Styx Restaurant,  at the 
Indigo Hotel in New York for a celebratory toast next to the lace screen  by 
Manca that we have all been discussing.
 
Devon

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[lace] Spam problem

[Dmt11home]

I think we were all hopeful that the problem was solved, at  least for 
Jeri, but alas it was not to be. 
 
One problem that I had with Drew's analysis was that it did  not seem 
possible that everyone on the Arachne list with an aol or yahoo  address had 
been 
blacklisted. Also, if I am blacklisted it doesn't seem to  affect any other 
mail that I send or receive, including another list that I am  on. 
 
I think I am just going to resign myself to life in the Spam  box which I 
check quite frequently. If some people don't receive my messages I  don't 
think that there will be any negative consequences since they aren't  usually 
very important :-)
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Scania lace

[Dmt11home]

But, if we are not talking about photocopying the pattern and  sending it 
to someone, but rather incorporating the made up lace into a holiday  
ornament, I see no reason to ask anyone for permission. 
 
Devon
 
 
In a message dated 10/29/2014 5:46:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
lynrbai...@desupernet.net writes:

While we  are figuring this out, don't forget that the rules in the US are 
not the  same as the rules in the UK.  The US has fair use principles, and 
the  UK, evidently, does not.

Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where the  weather has been raining, a 
wet fall day.  We need them, but I'd  rather have yesterday's sunny, warm 
day.


Hello All!  While  in Sacramento, I purchased a booklet on Skansk Knyppling 
prepared by Marji  Suhm for the Lace Museum in 2003.  To whom should I 
apply 
to ask  permission to share one of the patterns as part of the Arachne 
holiday  exchange?  I've used the Ljusgull pattern as part of my creation. 
Any  advice?  Many thanks.  Sincerely, Susan Hottle, Erie PA  USA

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[lace] Oops, forgot to trim

[Dmt11home]

Sorry.
Devon

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[lace] Rembrandt's mother-lacemaker?

[Dmt11home]

I have heard people say that it is thought that Rembrandt's  mother was a 
lacemaker and as a result his paintings of lace are suitably  detailed. Does 
anyone have a source identifying Rembrandt's mother as a  lacemaker?
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Rembrandt's mother-lacemaker?

[Dmt11home]

Dear Ilske,
 
These things are very hard to track down, as your experience  with the 
Goethe museum indicates. I don't know that there would even be any  point to 
asking the Rembrandt house in Amsterdam. I was wondering if perhaps  some lace 
maker, reading widely with a lace intensive focus might have seen such  a 
reference to Rembrandt. Looking at the paintings, it seems that Rembrandt was  
able to paint lace very clearly. But, for all I know, it may be the case 
that  every painter of that era would be well versed in painting lace, much as 
the  painters of the Gilded Age were renowned for their ability to paint  
pearls.
 
Another question, I suppose, is whether most Dutch housewives  of the era 
made lace and thus that Rembrandt's mother's lacemaking would be  assumed 
much as my mother made Jello, but we never talked much about it. It is  hard, 
at least for me, to understand whether this was the case. I saw a slide  show 
some years ago compiled by Lia Baumeister that showed Dutch lacemaking  
scenes and the practitioners of the craft were seated in nice interiors, 
wearing  nice clothing and even having servants. Lia's theory was that bobbin 
lace 
was  made by well off people. Of course, art historians may argue that 
composing a  painting would involve bringing many pretty images together such 
as 
luxurious  furnishings and women holding their hands in a charming way, so 
one may not be  able to derive too much from examining these paintings about 
social history. 
 
Actually, my inclination is to think that the Dutch  housewives of ample 
means made lace for pleasure with the maintenance of  household linens as a 
pretext suited to their industrious culture, much as 19th  century quilt 
making seemed to be about thriftily acquired warmth, but  actually seemed to be 
more about artistic expression. But, I realize that I am  projecting my 
20th/21st century perception back to the 17th century, so it seems  dangerous 
to 
go with my instinct.
 
Devon

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[lace] Beginner-Intermediate-Advanced

[Dmt11home]

Karen brings up a good topic regarding whether one is a  beginner, 
intermediate or advanced. A unified understanding of those terms might  be a 
good 
idea in order to avoid people signing up for the wrong class. In NJ  there 
were a lot of people who thought they were beginners, and did not have the  
courage to take a course calling for intermediate skills when I thought they  
probably were intermediates. 
 
I think of a beginner class as one where people are still  learning to wind 
bobbins, make weaver's knots, learn half stitch, linen stitch  and whole 
stitch (CTCT), possibly the rudiments of a torchon  ground, and how to make a 
sewing edge. In NJ, I would have said that after  the first three patterns 
people were probably in the intermediate level. How  would others describe an 
intermediate? 
 
I don't have a ready definition for where intermediate passes  into 
advanced, possibly it would include having experience with more than one  
bobbin 
lace discipline, like torchon plus point ground. What do others think? 
 
It would be nice if we could provide general guidelines for  convention 
classes, or failing that, if the teacher could be specific about what  skills 
the entering students were expected to have.
 
Devon

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[lace] teacher evaluation forms

[Dmt11home]

Dear Janice, 
 
I have always wondered whether a copy of the teacher  evaluation form is 
given to prospective teachers early in the hiring process so  that they can 
make sure that the format of their class conforms to the  expectations on the 
form. I just took a class at the convention which had  many, many strengths, 
but there were no paper handouts. There are two questions  on the 
evaluation form which relate to the quality of paper handouts, so,  the teacher 
really couldn't be accorded any points in those categories,  undoubtedly 
decreasing the total score. She was a teacher who was new to our  convention 
and may 
not have known exactly what the expectations were. The  question occurred 
to me that if the teachers don't have a copy of the form, way,  way in 
advance of the class, a situation is created where new teachers are  likely to 
score low on the form, while established teachers are more likely to  score 
high on the form because they know exactly what they will be evaluated on.  If 
future conventions look at the forms and choose among the high scoring  
teachers, then there is an unconscious bias being created that works against 
the 
 expansion of our teaching pool to new teachers.
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Messages not getting through

[Dmt11home]

Catherine writes:

Devon, all of your emails come through in my Junk mail too but you have  
been
able to receive replies from me in the past in response  (Miss  Channer's 
mat
and with scanned images as attachments).  However, I  notice that some of 
you
emails are lower case and some are upper  case.


Indeed, my recent posts to arachne have  even gone into my spam box. I also 
noticed that the aol was written in capitals,  which looked odd to me. When 
I write an email, I write it from my aol account  and I have no idea why it 
capitalizes (sometimes?) the aol part of the address  or how that might be 
changed. In fact, I sent a test message to myself and it  came through fine. 
It had lower case letters in it, although I sent it in the  usual way. Is 
there something happening to the letters aol that capitalizes them  as they 
pass through the Arachne software? 
 
Devon

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[lace] puzzling aol capitalization

[dmt11home]

Please be patient with me. I am trying to figure out why my mail to arachne
seems to come with capitalized aol. This is being sent from a different portal
to see if it still happens.
Devon

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Re: [lace] Lace in Paris

[Dmt11home]

Dear Pene,

I have just returned from Paris and it is singularly devoid of  lace. This
seems counter-intuitive, doesn't it?

There is none on display at the Musee des Arts Decoratifs. The  Mode Museum
occupies the same building as the Musee des Arst Decoratifs, but it  has
adopted the model of only having special theme exhibits, no permanent
collection on display. The current theme exhibit is about a modern designer,
so
while interesting to people who are not specifically looking for lace, it is a
 disappointment if you are.

There is none in the Cluny museum despite the story about how  the very
name Cluny devolves from lace at the Cluny museum. Ditto the  Orsay, although
their decorative arts were of better quality than the Musee des  Arts
Decoratifs, making us wish we hadn't wasted our time by going to there  first,
hoping for lace.

In response to my query about lace in Paris that I posted  before my trip,
the leads I got were outside of Paris, one being a small museum  in
Chantilly which is relatively near Paris. My trip also included Normandy
where
there are quite a few lace museums, and sights many of which are included  in
La
Route des Dentelles Normandes, which appears to be a listing of them made
by very astute tourism officials, also described in a book La Route des
Dentelles Normandes by Mick Fouriscot.

My one regret is that I did not force my poor husband,  after treking from
one lace museum to another on a relentless lace  tour through Normandy, to
accompany me to the Musee National de la Renaissance  Chateau d'Ecouen, like
Chantilly, also on the outskirts of Paris. The website  claims that it has
the Renaissance objects originally in the Cluny Museum. I  think that the
reason I didn't decide to risk my marriage on a visit there was  that I
detected a lack of commitment on the part of the museum to lace. It  seemed
more
interested in its other decorative arts such as furniture, ceramics,  silver,
stained glass and painted fireplaces. However, now that I am reviewing  the
website I see that they opened their Salle de Tissus, after 10 years of
closure,  June 18th, a week before I was in Paris.

http://www.musee-renaissance.fr/actualite/salle-des-tissus

Fermée au  public depuis 2004, la salle des tissus, située au dernier étage
du  pavillon nord ouest du château d'Ecouen, permet de présenter les
collections  textiles par roulement. En effet, très sensibles à la lumière,
ces
oeuvres ne  supportent pas d'être exposées trop longtemps.
Après avoir avoir valorisé les broderies  liturgiques, les broderies au
petit point et les dentelles, la  salle des tissus rouvrira en juin 2014 avec
une présentation thématique  sur les étoffes d'ameublement.
-

If my rusty French is correct it  seems that they are presenting, lace (les
dentelles) although their first big  exhibit is about materials used in
furnishing. Perhaps, though, it is like the  Mode Museum, and is only
presenting thematic exhibits, in this case, upholstery  fabric.

Another clue that an important lace  collection may be at the Chateau
d'Ecouen is a book published by the museum in  1992, by Anne Kraatz, Les
Dentelles, which seems to be a catalogue of its lace  holdings, or possibly of
an
exhibit. As it is totally in French it is not clear  to me which.

Perhaps Pene, or someone else would  like to check out the Chateau d'Ecouen
and see if the room of textiles has  opened and if there is any lace on
display. Ideally, this would result in an  article for the Bulletin :-)

Devon

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[lace] Arachne at IOLI

[Dmt11home]

Dear Janice,
 
Thanks for being the organizer of an arachne get together. I  always look 
forward to it.
 
Has anything been finalized about this? As of June 23, I see  we were 
looking at Tuesday evening at 6:30? Is that still the plan? I don't want  to 
make 
the mistake of planning something else that might conflict with the  
Arachne get together.
 
Devon

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[lace] Lace in Paris

[Dmt11home]

I am planning a trip to Paris and am wondering if there is any  lace on 
display. I am investigating the Musee des Arts Decoratifs and the Musee  de la 
Mode et du Textile. Does anyone know whether there is lace on display at  
either of these, or possibly both? 
My understanding is that the Palais Galliera, Musee de la Mode  has no 
permanent collection on view, only temporary exhibitions,  will not  reopen 
until July 12, and even then will only have a display about fashion  in France 
from 1947-1957.
Are there other museums in Paris that I should be  investigating for lace?
Devon Thein

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[lace] Lace Guild Style sheet

[dmt11home]

I would greatly appreciate it if someone could send me a copy of the Lace Guild 
style sheet. While acknowledging that English English and American English are 
different, it would be nice to see how other publications have addressed the 
problems.

Any other lace style sheets that exist would also be appreciated. 

Devon

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Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers

[Dmt11home]

Sorry, forgot to trim.
Devon


In a message dated 5/20/2014 8:36:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dmt11h...@aol.com writes:

Frequently, it is the person who has studied the language   formally who
understands it better than the native  speaker!

Regarding the plural of lace, I have wondered about that  for  a long
time. I actually did a slide show entitled The Lace of the  Robber Barons.
But
noting that the book Antique Laces of the American  Collectors, written  in
the 1920s, which I used in the research seemed  to think that the plural  of
lace was laces, I sometimes called my  slide show The Laces of the Robber
Barons.

But, The Lace of the  Robber Barons sounded better to my ear. I  know that
there is a bit of  an escape clause in Strunk and White's Elements of  Style
that claims  that if it sounds wrong, don't do it, so I relied heavily on
that. But,  that seems overly liberal.

If I were to refer to the many different  kinds of lace in  France, I would
say the laces of France as in The  laces of France are many  and
exquisite. If I were to buy an auction  lot of different pieces of lace, I
would say
I bought a box of  lace.

Thoughts?

Devon






In a message  dated 5/20/2014 7:59:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight  Time,
ilske.l.thom...@t-online.de writes:

Devon,
in German we are  lucky to have the hyphen. We can write  Klöppel-Spitzen
and so  on.
In English I wrote till today
lace maker/s,
lace  making,
needle lace,
bobbin lace,
crochet lace,
knitted   lace,
lace is in my opinion singular and plural but if I am speaking  of
different techniques of lace I am writing laces.
But I am not born  with an  English tongue so I am not competent to say
wich is right.  For me in that  way it sounds understandable.
Perhaps there are  English teachers on the  list who could explain this
after the rules  of English/american  language.
That would have be a wonderful question  for  Aurelia.

Ilske


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Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers

[Dmt11home]

Frequently, it is the person who has studied the language  formally who
understands it better than the native speaker!

Regarding the plural of lace, I have wondered about that for  a long
time. I actually did a slide show entitled The Lace of the Robber Barons.  But
noting that the book Antique Laces of the American Collectors, written  in
the 1920s, which I used in the research seemed to think that the plural  of
lace was laces, I sometimes called my slide show The Laces of the Robber
Barons.

But, The Lace of the Robber Barons sounded better to my ear. I  know that
there is a bit of an escape clause in Strunk and White's Elements of  Style
that claims that if it sounds wrong, don't do it, so I relied heavily on
that. But, that seems overly liberal.

If I were to refer to the many different kinds of lace in  France, I would
say the laces of France as in The laces of France are many  and
exquisite. If I were to buy an auction lot of different pieces of lace, I
would say
I bought a box of lace.

Thoughts?

Devon






In a message dated 5/20/2014 7:59:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ilske.l.thom...@t-online.de writes:

Devon,
in German we are lucky to have the hyphen. We can write  Klöppel-Spitzen
and so on.
In English I wrote till today
lace maker/s,
lace making,
needle lace,
bobbin lace,
crochet lace,
knitted  lace,
lace is in my opinion singular and plural but if I am speaking of
different techniques of lace I am writing laces.
But I am not born with an  English tongue so I am not competent to say
wich is right. For me in that  way it sounds understandable.
Perhaps there are English teachers on the  list who could explain this
after the rules of English/american  language.
That would have be a wonderful question for  Aurelia.

Ilske


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[lace] more topics for style sheet

[Dmt11home]

I would also like some clarification about Point de Gaze, or  point de Gaze 
or point de gaze or point de gaze. 
Also, is it reticello or reticella?
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers

[Dmt11home]

I say it is for the lace writing community to set the  usage, and the 
Oxford Spelling Dictionary to follow our lead! As soon as we  develop our style 
sheet we can send them a copy :-)
 
 
In a message dated 5/20/2014 11:22:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
elizabeth.p...@tesco.net writes:

When in  doubt I consult the Oxford Spelling Dictionary (it has British and
American  spelling) , which lists the  following:

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Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers

[Dmt11home]

Hi All, Ilske's note made sense to me  - I would never write knittedlace
maker. But I would go for knitted lace  maker.
 
Wouldn't you be a lace knitter, not a knitted lace  maker?
 
Oddly enough, though, it seems as though bobbin lace is never  one word, 
whereas needlelace sometimes is.
 
Devon

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[lace] Re: lace style sheet, was lace proof readers

[Dmt11home]

I for one would like a lace Style Sheet for lacemaking  terms.
 
lace making, lace-making or lacemaking?
lace makers or lacemakers?
needle lace or needlelace?
plural of lace? lace or laces?
needlelace makers? needle lacemakers? needle lace  makers?
bobbin lace makers? Bobbin lacemakers? 
I am sure there are other words that cause agita to lace  writers and proof 
readers, but these come to my mind immediately. 
 
Devon
 
 
In a message dated 5/19/2014 12:18:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
jeria...@aol.com writes:

Dear  Lovers of Lace,

It has occurred to me that we need to thank the people  who bring lace  
publications to members of various lace guilds all  over the world.  These  
publications, and their distribution,  usually cost more than any other  
budgeted 
expense of our  guilds.  The Editors and Proofreaders can never be  thanked 
 
enough for their labor-intensive work, always with a  fixed deadline  that 
can 
be inconvenient for various reasons.

Occasionally, a  publication will come through without being proofread, and 
 
then we  see the value of the persons with that volunteer responsibility.

When  we read Lace publications of 100 or more years ago, we must  marvel 
at  
how well writers and editors did.  Back then, few women  attended  colleges 
or universities, and many did not finish high  school.  They had to  
consult 
with each other by surface mail or  expensive long-distance  telephone, 
when 
writing about this  specialized field - Lace.  

We have so many advantages today,  starting with a much larger body of  
people with advanced  educations.  All the more reason to pass quality  
publications  (or similar, like web sites) on to the lace makers of 100  
years in the  
future.

You may send this to your favorite Lace Editors and  Proofreaders - with a  
personal note, of course!

Jeri Ames in  Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center

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Re: [lace] Footside on left

[Dmt11home]

I think it is the same reason why the English drive on the  left, while 
everyone else drives on the right. But, I don't know what that  reason is.
Devon
 
 
In a message dated 4/23/2014 4:37:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
alexstillw...@talktalk.net writes:

Hi  Arachnids

I have been asked a question. ‘Which laces have the  footside on the 
left and
which on the right?’ As far as I know only the  English laces Bucks 
Point and
Bedfordshire have the footside on the left.  Even the English Downton has 
it on
the right. Does anyone know of any other  laces with it on the right?

As for why I have several ideas.  1)  Someone with little experience or who 
had
not made it for some time  introduces lacemaking in England. 2) The person
introducing the lace wanted  to put her ‘stamp’ on it. 3) The 
person 
who
introduced the lace worked  it out how it was made by examining the lace.

Any information, comments  and discussion is going to be very interesting.

Happy  lacemaking

Alex

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Re: [lace] Footside on left

[Dmt11home]

_j...@myhawkins.co.uk_ (mailto:j...@myhawkins.co.uk)   writes:

England isn't the only country that drives on the left.  Japan is  another 
place, and Malta as well as the US Virgin Islands and there are  others.

Where are the footsides of the laces of these countries? 
Interestingly, Lyn says that the Swedish footside was on the  left. Sweden 
only switched to right hand driving in 1967.
One might speculate about Island Effect, which results in  animals 
becoming smaller, for instance, so why not lace with the footside on the  left? 
(Doesn't account for Sweden, though.)
Of course, Malta was once part of the United Kingdom, which  explains why 
they drive on the left. The US Virgin Islands were originally  Danish 
territory, but I can't find any indication that the Danes drove on the  left. 
Perhaps, the US Virgin Islands are trying to be consistent with the  British 
Virgin Islands that are nearby.
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Footside

[Dmt11home]

I am not sure that I buy the heel ball theory, because  wouldn't that 
result in the footside switching every single time the pattern was  copied? In 
that case, wouldn't every country make lace with footsides on the  right and 
left interchangeably? I think the fact that they were copying with  heel 
ball, which might result in reversal,  and yet the footside was always  on the 
left indicates a conscious decision to always put the footside on the  left. 
 
I am inclined to agree with Jane that right handedness has a  lot to do 
with the general preference for right handed footsides. 
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Care of fabrics

[Dmt11home]

Regarding time honored methods for dealing with stains, I was  at a Thai 
restaurant and the waiter spilled some oily substance on my silk  blouse. The 
restaurant staff felt terrible and the hostess ran to get some  seltzer, 
which they applied to the spot, assuring me that all would be well. I  wasn't 
terribly concerned about the blouse because it had been successfully dry  
cleaned in such cases before, but I let them put on the seltzer because it  
seemed to make them feel better. When I took the silk blouse to the cleaner he  
shook his head sadly saying that the oily spot would have been removable  
but the seltzer had ruined the blouse. The cleaner tried to get the seltzer  
spot out, but it remained. I had to throw the blouse away. 
I guess the lesson from this is, restaurant staff are not  experts on stain 
removal. Of course, as restaurant staff their greater aim was  to project 
the image that they had solved the problem they had created, so they  got 
high marks for that.
Costly for me, though.
 
Devon

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[lace] Foreign Language books, online translation

[Dmt11home]

Jacquie wrote:
 
Unfortunately, if you want to read a book in a different language, you have 
 to either learn the language, pay for a translation or use an on line  
translator, which is something we couldn't do 25 years ago. 
 
Pursuing the concept of on-line translation, what are other  people using? 
I have software that came with my scanner which is called Abbyy  Finereader. 
This can take a scan of a page and turn it into essentially a Word  
Document. Then I copy and paste the text from the document into Google  
Translate. 
Sometimes it is helpful. Sometimes it is gibberish. I am wondering if  there 
is a better way of doing this.
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Milanese

[Dmt11home]

Lorelei wrote:
But what I could see in the  2nd group is the
tapes changed width beyond what could be accounted for by  fancy stitches
inside the tape. And these usually also had motifs that  started and ended. 
In
other words they were actually part laces (sectional  laces) rather than 
tape
laces (braid laces). The museum labeled these part  laces exactly the same 
as
the pure Milanese or Flemish tape  laces.
 
There is a school of thought that the  Milanese laces that start and stop a 
lot indicate a Flemish origin, while the  ones that go up the side of one 
leaf and down the other side, never ending the  tape are Italian in origin. I 
don't know whether anything in lace is actually  that straight forward, but 
it is something to keep in mind.
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] philosophical questions re: Milanese

[Dmt11home]

I do not claim to be a Milanese expert, but in my opinion you  see this 
adding and tossing out in older pieces such as one of my favorites, 
http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/227653?rpp=20pg
=1ao=onft=53.162.2pos=1
 
In this piece you have a lot of crazy things happening,  including tapes 
that separate into two and then rejoin each other. 
 
In fact, Milanese generally provides a lot of potential  for 
experimentation, often being used as the basis for delightful animals. There  
are some 
peacocks to the right of this picture. Also there are quite a few other  
animals in parts of this piece that are not shown in the picture. 
 
At the very least, you can usually add some extra pairs to the  number of 
pairs running down the sides of the Milanese braid, if that  facilitates you 
moving from one braid to another.
 
Devon

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[lace] Miss Channer's Mat, newest

[Dmt11home]

As a result of our internet discussion, Nigel Bean has  contacted Pat Bury 
and provided the following information:
Ruth Bean has been purchased by 
Crowood Press, Ltd
Ramsbury,
Marlborough,
Wilts SN8 2HR
Tel 01672 520 320
 
_www.crowood.com_ (http://www.crowood.com) 
 
The contact is Ken Hathaway.
They are interested in keeping the titles in print so interest  in Miss 
Channer's mat can be directed to them. 
 
It was very nice of Pat Bury to provide this  information.
 
I suppose that in that if Crowood cannot find  the art work for the mat, it 
might be necessary for someone to send them  one of the original unused 
copies if they were to reprint it. 
 
Devon 

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Re: [lace] Stunned

[Dmt11home]

Interesting question.
In a sense, I think you feel a little violated because it  seems that a 
design you gave to the magazine appears as though it is being used  
commercially. However, as you say, the low price implies that commercial making 
 of 
handmade lace is not really viable.
My theory on this is that the piece passed into the hands of  the ebay 
auctioneer via an estate. So, projecting a bit, perhaps the maker made  this as 
a labor of love for someone important to him, who cherished it. I am  sure 
that you intended this to be the use of your design.
However, when the piece goes to auction, it is devoid of the  sentimental 
value, and finds a buyer who is evaluating it entirely on the basis  of 
comparable ebay items, possibly simply as wall decoration. (It may even be  the 
case that the piece is being bought for the frame.)
I had a conversation with a man who was a blacksmith at a  historic village 
one time. He told me that he would make a nail at the village,  and then 
sell it for $5. However, at a garage sale it would sell for only about  50 
cents. The people who bought the nail were buying the experience of seeing it  
made, was his explanation.
I think that this shows that for hand made lace to achieve any  value on 
the market place, it has to be presented in the context of some kind of  
demonstration, or educational setting with loads of history thrown in, so that  
the buyer is buying the history, the cultural tradition, etc. 
Generally speaking, the public is not knowledgeable about  lace, so they 
don't have any basis for critical evaluation of a piece of  handmade lace. In 
fact, it is hard to perceive the difference between handmade  and machine 
made lace, and machine made lace is quite inexpensive. 
Of course, without a lot of study, and understanding of  technique, oil 
paintings are just color on canvas.
Handmade lace in our era is at historically low values. In the  1920s when 
there was a lot being written about making and collecting lace the  prices 
were rather high, especially for exceptional pieces.
 
I suppose, in a way, you could consider that for the people  who appreciate 
handmade lace, today's market place presents an incomparable  buying 
opportunity, totally devoid of investors running up the price. 
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] 1000th post on LaceNews

[Dmt11home]

If you haven't discovered LaceNews yet, you have a treat in  store.
http://lacenews.net/
Many thanks to Laurie for this incredibly comprehensive site  or sites.
 
Devon
 
 
What is  LaceNews?

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[lace] Dermatological irritation, lacemaking

[Dmt11home]

Here is a question I haven't seen dealt with before. I am  experiencing 
patches of itchiness, inflammation and irritation on the skin on  the inside of 
both my thumb joints, but slightly worse on the right hand. I use  bulbed 
bobbins, often of guatambo, which is palm. My dermatologist seems to be  
puzzled by this situation which, although it has improved, is not resolving  
despite constant application of an eczema cream. 
Has anyone else had this? Could it be lacemaking related? I  don't actually 
make bobbin lace everyday, so it seems a little odd, but now I am  
beginning to wonder.
Devon

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Re: [lace] Dermatological irritation, lacemaking

[Dmt11home]

Malvary wrote:
 
I remember a few years ago, someone  mentioning that she was reacting to 
the 
exotic woods of her bobbins. She had  to put them all aside and just use 
the 
hard temperate woods i.e. oak, maple,  fruit woods.
 
Thanks, Malvary. I think I remember that posting. I have been  using the 
guatambo because they are less expensive than other woods, but  maybe I 
should, as you say switch woods. I actually did a bit of a search on  allergies 
to 
palm today, but it seems that if I had such an allergy I would be  
experiencing digestive issues due to the fact that many foods, medications, 
etc.  
have palm oil hidden in them, often described as vegetable oil. But, another 
 culprit could be the finish on the bobbins, I suppose. You never really 
know how  things have been treated.
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Linen thread and winter

[Dmt11home]

My first teacher advised taking a paper towel, wetting it,  wringing it out 
and sort of arranging it in a three dimensional shape  with lots of 
surfaces, under the cover cloth which is held up with  pins. This creates sort 
of a 
vapor chamber that is not air tight and that does  not have the damp towel 
directly in contact with threads or pricking. You leave  it that way over 
night.
Another teacher that I had like to place a more absorptive  disposable 
towel product, (handi wipes?) under the area where the threads  were  
diagonally 
suspended in air going from the bobbins laid flat on the  apron of a roller 
pillow to the elevated roller. The advantage of this was  that the towel 
could provide a constant low humidity drifting up to the threads  while you 
were working. 
When not following this advice, and instead trying more heavy  handed 
methods,  I have experienced the color transferring from an orange  cardboard 
pricking and also mustiness and discoloration. So, extreme moderation  is now 
my watchword.
One teacher advised taking the pillow into the bathroom and  running the 
shower or hot water to create a high humidity situation and leaving  it there 
for a few hours. I have tried this, but I think it might be deleterious  to 
the pillow as a whole. 
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Animals in lace

[Dmt11home]

I think that you find animals in lace when they are associated  with 
religious subjects, for instance you might find one that is a Saint's  
attribute. 
Or you might see a horse or a donkey in some kind of religious  tableau. We 
have a St. George and dragon piece at the museum. 
Also, hunting scenes were very popular and you sometimes see  deer and 
dogs, and men on horses. Milanese often has these themes. We also have  a point 
de france with a hunting scene that has dogs and a fox.
Somewhat similarly, you may see them in the context of a lace  with a 
mythical theme. For instance, you may see a Diana and some dogs and  stags. We 
have a cap back in Mechlin with Orpheus surrounded by animals. 
Sometimes pastoral themes have shepherdesses and sheep and  occasionally 
dogs. We have a lappet featuring a shepherdess and sheep. 
Birds are very popular, as are butterflies and dragon flies. I  think that 
some of these themes were taken from Chines porcelain that was  popular in 
the 18th century.
Bees, of course, are popular on Napoleonic era lace. 
Even on non-Napoleonic lace animals appear if they are related  to the coat 
of arms of some noble, or even pope, for whom the lace was made.  Lace made 
for the Belgian royal family, a royal family that may have had a  
disproportionate amount of lace made for it, often has the Belgian lion. I am  
thinking of a beautiful veil I saw at the Museum of Art and History in Brussels 
 
that was dotted all over with lions. 
 
That is off the top of my head!
 
Devon

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[lace] Miss Channer's Mat

[Dmt11home]

There has been a reply from Pat Bury about the copyright  status of the 
pricking for Miss Channer's Mat.
 
She writes:
I do not have the copyright as I was paid for my work by Ruth  Bean.
I worked from an actual size photocopy of the mat supplied by  Ruth. The or
iginal lace being in the Bedford Museum. 
When published a number of lacemakers altered the overlaid  leaf filling to 
honeycomb and mayflowers for ease of working.
I am sorry I cannot help you more. Ruth died a while ago and I  do not know 
what Nigel has done about the business.
 
So, perhaps her answer has moved the discussion forward, a  little,
Devon

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Re: [lace] Re: 2015/Iowa/Czech-Slovak Museum

[Dmt11home]

The potentials for lace within the Czech  Slovak Museum  are really vast. 
For one thing, all areas of the Austro Hungarian empire seemed  to be 
engaged in Art Nouveau lace. There was an exhibit about Alphonse Mucha at  the 
Czech  Slovak museum. I wonder if he designed any lace. 
Also, the Czechs and Slovaks have been at the forefront of  contemporary 
lace. I wonder if the museum has any of that.
 
Devon

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[lace] Re: 2015 IOLI convention July 27 - Aug 2: Hoover Library

[Dmt11home]

I know that the Hoover Library in Iowa is the repository for  many of the 
embroidered flour sacks, presented in gratitude by the women of  Belgium. 
Does it a actually have any of the lace from the Bobbins of Belgium  lace 
initiative in it? 
I find this entire enterprise to have been fascinating, and  not the least 
of the fascination is that major Symbolist artists were supporting  the 
project by designing lace works of great artistic beauty. I would love to  see 
more of it.
Devon

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Re: [lace] Embroidered flour sacks - history

[Dmt11home]

The provision of the aid and the food did happen on your side  of the 
Atlantic, since it happened in Belgium. What is interesting is that I  have 
never 
heard of any Belgians that were aware of the effort prior to hearing  about 
it from us :-)
 
This is really interesting. I had never heard of it. I guess  it
didn't happen on this side of the Atlantic. I must ask my parents
about  it.
Karen in Malta

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[lace] 2015/Iowa/Czech-Slovak Museum

[Dmt11home]

Is there any ethnic lace in the Czech Slovak Museum in Cedar  Rapids?
Devon

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Re: [lace] 2015 IOLI convention July 27 - Aug 2

[dmt11home]

Dear Lin,

I am looking forward to the Sacramento convention and think that it will be a
great deal of fun. The location, just where our Gold Rush started is very
interesting historically, and that theme will yield very interesting entries
in its contest. I can't wait to get my Bulletin and find out who the teachers
will be and the details of the trips! I already know that there will be some
very interesting exhibits.

However I am also glad that an effort is being made to acquaint us with the
details of the 2015 convention in Coralville, IA. Usually conventions are
planned many years in advance, as the Sacramento one has been and there is
chatter and chit- chat for several years as people familiarize themselves with
the location and make determinations about whether they want to go. In the
case of the 2015 convention, there was a serious fear that no one would step
forward to host the convention. In fact some groups who might have been
interested in hosting found that all the potential hotels were booked up two
years in advance, and instead chose to ask for years farther out. So, it was a
tremendous relief when the Doris Southard group stepped up to the plate and
heroically offered to put on a convention with a very short lead time. Not
only do they have to put everything in place super quick, but there hasn't
been the usual opportunity for consciousness of the location to evolve within
the group. So this is rather an exceptional situation where the normal process
has already been disrupted.

I don't know about other people, but my vacation time and money are in such
short supply that I am usually thinking several years in advance about it. I
confess, I don't know much about Iowa, and I would like to know more. I have
never taken a vacation in Iowa before. What is there to do? What is there to
see? What is the hotel going to be like? What special things are going to
happen there? How do I present the idea of vacationing in Iowa to my spouse
who also gets to weigh in on decisions? Although initially cool to the idea of
vacationing in Sacramento, he has researched the area and identified
activities that he enjoys. Now we are both looking forward to it with (almost)
equal enthusiasm. At this point I need to know what activities might be
available to him in Iowa.

I would like to know as much as possible about the Iowa convention and as soon
as possible. It would be a real shame if the Coralville Convention were to be
poorly attended because they did not have enough lead time to acquaint the
lace community with what it had to offer.

Devon

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[lace] Channer mat-copyright

[Dmt11home]

Copyright law is different in the US versus Britain, and I  don't know 
anything about British copyright law.
Is it the case that Miss Channer went through the formal  process of 
copyrighting the design of the mat? If so at what date?
Devon

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Re: [lace] Channer mat-copyright

[Dmt11home]

It is undoubtedly the case that the heirs of Mrs. Channer own  copyright to 
the photo in the book published in 1928. However, there appear to  be some 
photo copies of patterns/prickings which are in the hands of Diana  Trevor 
that do not have Miss Channer's name or mark on them and don't appear  ever 
to have been published by her. In fact, they are not even exactly the same  
as the photo in the book. One may be part of a collection of patterns given 
by  Pat Payne to the Alby museum, and one comes from the archive of Vi 
Bullard. Is  there any reason to believe that the rights to these unpublished 
works are owned  by her heirs? Is it possible to exert rights to a technical 
drawing, by  publishing a photograph of an object, not having published or 
registered the  original drawing?
 
Devon
 
 
In a message dated 1/7/2014 12:32:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
thelace...@btinternet.com writes:

It is  the act of publishing that causes written work to be copyrighted and 
for craft  it is the exhibition or selling of the work that copyrights 
this.  From  the research that I have seen this is the same for all legal 
systems based on  the UK or European systems or which have origins in the UK 
system or European  systems (such as The US and Australia)

Certainly the fact that the  pricking has been published would cause it to 
come under  copyright.

Creative works do not have to necessarily be published to  fall under 
copyright protection.  If I write a sing and play it to you  and yeas later a 
major part of your song happens to be the same or reasonably  similar to my 
original I can claim infringement. I have to prove earlier  authorship and that 
you had access to my material. In addition there would be  liability of 
your friend wrote a piece based on my work but had not head mine  directly but 
had heard a version from you that you sang remembering  mine.  There would 
be a joint but not equal liability  there.

Imitation may be the best form of flattery but it also carries  liability.

By published a photograph of her work in the 1920s and it  being clearly 
stated that she was they designer of the work, Miss Channer  deminstrated 
copyright

Kind Regards

Liz Baker

 On 7  Jan 2014, at 16:08, dmt11h...@aol.com wrote:
 
 Copyright law is  different in the US versus Britain, and I  don't know 
 anything  about British copyright law.
 Is it the case that Miss Channer went  through the formal  process of 
 copyrighting the design of the  mat? If so at what date?
 Devon

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[lace] Miss Channer's mat, copyright

[Dmt11home]

Do we really have any idea who the rights holder is to the  original 
pattern? Did Miss Channer do the work for hire for a school, in which  case 
they 
or their successors own the copyright. Or did she leave her  estate including 
copyrights to her children, or other family members, since  she is known as 
Miss Channer? Or did she perhaps leave her possessions to an  institutions?
 
I do not have a copy of the Ruth Bean publication, but perhaps  someone who 
does could check to see if there is any adapted with permission  of.. 
or adapted under an exclusive license to publish from on it  
anywhere. That would give some indication as to who owns the original design 
and  
what the terms of the permission are. Then one could try to  contact whomever 
the rights holder was who granted the right to adapt the  mat to Ruth Bean 
Publishers.
 
It is entirely possible that her heirs would be more  interested in seeing 
her legacy live on in the enjoyment of the mat than they  would be in going 
to court to prevent anyone from using the design.
 
Devon

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[lace] Torn veil

[Dmt11home]

A small hole in a veil, but a world of trouble for an amateur  who might 
try to help. In my experience, when I try to do such a mend, the  minute I 
start to work on such a thing all the surrounding thread disintegrates  because 
it is very old and cannot withstand much handling. Then you are trying  to 
mend a larger hole and have made the item much worse than it was when it was 
 given to you and you feel a moral obligation to continue on with a job 
where the  job is becoming bigger and worse at every moment. 
 
Chances are that when you finally come up with a brilliant  solution to the 
larger hole, resulting in a massive investment in time, the  bride will be 
horrified at the appearance of the veil and will feel that you  have ruined 
it. So, you will have spent a lot of time and  ingenuity, and you will have 
a bride who feels that you should reimburse  her for the cost of the veil.
 
Sue has rightly concluded that she should not volunteer for  this.
 
It is with this thought in mind that I mention that there are  some textile 
conservation laboratories. The one that is well know in NY is the  Textile 
Conservation Laboratory at the Cathedral of the Church of Saint John the  
Divine where, despite the name, they take in private work. 
 
http://www.stjohndivine.org/about/textile-conservation-lab
 
Sue is not here in the NY area, but perhaps she could contact  them and ask 
if they know of a place in her neck of the woods. This will not be  cheap. 
First there will be a charge for evaluating the work needed and  when the 
bride signs the contract she will be acquainted with the idea  of holding 
harmless the lab in the event that the item is impaired during the  mending 
process. When last I checked, probably ten years ago, work at a  different lab 
which has subsequently gone out of business was in the vicinity of  over $90 
an hour. This will really put the bride to the test of how much value  she 
places on the veil. But, it will be up to her to decide whether she wants to  
invest a lot of money in the project.
 
One problem with this kind of thing is that the person asking  about the 
mend thinks that a knowledgeable lacemaker can do an invisible mend in  about 
five minutes. If they realized that they were discussing a situation where  
they are essentially asking a stranger to do a $500 job for them for free, 
they  would be horrified.
 
Devon

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[lace] Pat Bury email address?

[Dmt11home]

Liz writes:
 

I think  that Jean has just told us where to go for information on 
copyright of the  pricking. If it has been adapted by Pat Bury then the 
copyright 
will have  started for that pricking, with her.  She may have sold it to Ruth 
Bean,  or licensed it to her but this should be, as others have said, our 
starting  point

Kind Regards

Liz Baker

Does anyone have contact information for Patricia Bury? She  seems to be 
actively teaching at Missenden Abby, Knuston Hall, Dillington and  Alston 
Hall, in what appear to be delightful events- how I wish I lived in  England- 
but I don't see an email address there.
 
Devon

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[lace] Channer Mat

[Dmt11home]

Is there any reason to believe that Miss Channer designed the  mat? When I 
started lace there were several patterns that were associated with  my 
teacher, but she did not design them. She made and sold the  prickings.
 
In fact, when I started making lace in the 1970s the concept  of copyright 
was not widely understood among lacemakers. Many considered every  pattern 
to be traditional and in the public domain. Others exerted some kind of  
proprietary ownership in patterns that was based on nothing but habitual use. 
 
Devon

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[lace] Channer Mat

[Dmt11home]

I think that the Cecil Higgins Museum is missing a bet when  they don't 
sell a high def scan of this mat. Where is their  initiative?
 
Is there any evidence that Ruth Bean actually obtained  ownership of the 
original design when they did the work of pricking and having  someone make 
the piece? If not, then they own the copyright to their work, the  pricking 
and the interpretation of it by Patricia Bury, assuming that she didn't  keep 
the right to that. I think that the working up of the pattern is a lot more  
of a bit of creative work than the making of the pricking. In fact, where 
is  Mrs. Dixon in all this, since she worked the original mat circa  1926.
 
Perhaps, Ruth Bean obtained the right to make and publish  the pricking 
from Miss Channer or her heirs, but not exclusive rights to  the original 
design, much as in my writing I grant the right of first  publication to the 
IOLI, but retain the copyright. The IOLI has copyright to the  font and the 
layout only, because those are the things they added to my  work.
 
If the copyright to the design resided in Miss  Channer, I suppose it would 
have passed to her heirs when she died.  Does anyone know who her heirs 
are, and whether they have any interest in  suppressing the use of her designs. 
Perhaps, if asked, they would feel that she  would have wanted to share the 
work. (They might even want to give it to  Creative Commons.) 
 
 In the event of a court case regarding who owns the  rights to a design, I 
believe it is customary to present work that shows the  development of the 
design through various stages, rather than to simply accept a  verbal claim 
to the design. As such, I doubt that anyone has a portfolio of  Miss 
Channers's design development that they could use to support a claim that  she 
developed the design. In fact, if you had such a portfolio it might actually  
illuminate a different scenario, that she may have adapted it from a  
traditional design or someone else's design, possibly even a piece of lace she  
purchased. 
 
Another issue, is whether in fact Miss Channer owned the  copyright. 
According to Diana:
 
A picture of the original mat appeared
in Miss Channers book 'Practical  Lacemaking' published in 1928. Worked by 
a
student at the Bedford Technical  Institute. Design by C.C. Channer. 
 
If Miss Channer was an employee of the Bedford Technical  Institute the 
design might well be work for hire in which case it is the  Bedford Technical 
Institute or its successors who owns the copyright. (At least  that is how 
it would be in the US.)
 
Devon

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[lace] Reprint of In the Cause of English lace, 2012

[Dmt11home]

Interestingly, Crowood Press appears to have reprinted In the  Cause of 
English Lace in 2012 and they claim 
Although published 90 years ago, this book has few modern  rivals, and is 
reprinted here for the first time within a more extensive work by  Anne 
Buck.
 
http://www.crowood.com/details.asp?isbn=9780903585262t=In-the-Cause-of-Engl
ish-Lace---The-Life-and-Work-of-Catherine-C-Channer-1874-1949
 
Would I be correct in assuming that someone has checked out  this new 
publication and ascertained that there is no mat pattern in it? 
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Leslie Lohman exhibit, was sourcing threads Basel

[Dmt11home]

Dear Pierre,
 
I don not have the answer to your question, but I have a  question for you.
 
Are you on your way to New York to be at the exhibit of your  piece at the 
Queer Threads, Crafting Identity and Community exhibit at the  Leslie Lohman 
Museum, Jan. 17- March 16? 
 
http://www.leslielohman.org/about/press-release/2013/queer-threads-pr.html
 
Personally, I am pretty excited that your work is being  exhibited in New 
York and am planning to go see it. 
 
Devon Thein

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[lace] continuing Miss Channer discussion

[Dmt11home]

Sherry wrote:
Do you know of a
design that would be just as  challenging as Miss Channer's Mat and where is
the pattern. Be descriptive as  to its appearance...maybe were we can see it
done up online, who is the  designer..
 
There is a book called Fine Buckinghamshire Point Lace  Patterns belonging 
to the Misses Pope and Misses Sivewright, Introduction by  Christine 
Springett,  that contains prickings that the workers of Bucks  Point will find 
quite challenging. The fan pictured on the front of the book is  very pretty, 
birds flanking a flower pot, with other pots on either side.  Personally, I 
much prefer the appearance of this fan to the appearance of the  notorious 
mat. 
You can see the photo of the fan on the cover of the book on  
_www.vansciverbobbinlace.com_ (http://www.vansciverbobbinlace.com)  in  books, 
under 
category 5, Bucks Point, etc. 
 
Devon

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[lace] Bonhams sale

[Dmt11home]

I have been searching without success for the Susan Cox lace  in the 
Bonhams Sale. However, there are a number of pieces with the provenance  of the 
Ann Collier collection. Ann Collier is a well known to us because of  her 
books, often about the lace fans she designed.
 
Devon

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[lace] National Women's History Museum

[Dmt11home]

Jeri wrote:

I think this is a job for The Smithsonian, which is paid for by the  taxes 
paid by everyone (about 1/2 of us being female). They think nothing of  
spending billions on a Space museum. Most other museums under them are  
focused on a male-dominated society. An exception might be the American  
Textile 
Museum in Lowell MA which was rescued recently by The Smithsonian.  
However, men owned/operated the textile businesses; women worked for the  
men. 
Textiles have been a major force in our economic history and they have  
been 
neglected terribly in museums - from the Colonial period until we now  
permit 
(blame Washington) cheap imports to dominate. Here we sit.  Stalled.
 
This got me to wondering why we don't have a women's museum through the  
Smithsonian, and I thought I had heard something about such a thing. In fact, 
it  seems like we do have one, http://www.nwhm.org/ but it exists in some  
form other than physical reality. We are all urged to write Congress to give 
it  a building. So, as it exists now, I guess it is not a solution to where 
one  might send artifacts requiring storage. Hmmm. 
 
Devon

.

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Re: [lace] what to see/visit in Nice, France or the nearby area

[Dmt11home]

Of course the best way to travel to Le Puy is not by train or  car, but by 
foot with a scallop shell slung around your neck :-)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_St._James#Medieval_route

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Re: [lace] what to see/visit in Nice, France or the nearby area

[Dmt11home]

Arlene's question was: 
 
Anything possible to see as a day trip via train/bus that  a
not-so-brave traveler who does not speak French could possibly get to? 
 
I am afraid that my true feeling  about this is that the  answer is no, 
especially now that Susan has told us that Lyon is 4 1/2 hours  away. I think 
that it would be much nicer to explore the non-lace related sites  around 
Nice, kicking back on the Corniche, than to take courage in hand and ride  a 
train for 4 1/2 hours to seen a single display window of lace in Lyon. For 
one  thing, as a veteran of many trips to museums with lace collections, the 
chances  that the point of the trip will be totally frustrated by 
circumstances beyond  your control is always very present. For instance, there 
was a 
transit strike in  Lyon the day I was attempting to visit. On the day I went 
to the V  A, the  lace room was closed, at another museum the curator had a 
cold and hadn't come  in. So a pilgrimage that involves 9 hours of train 
riding could very likely  result in Arlene arriving just as the museum closes 
for some unknown purpose,  and she finds herself standing outside it 
thinking about how she could have  enjoyed another day in the environs of Nice. 
I 
usually think it is best if you  time these kinds of museum visits with an 
extra day so that if things go  sideways on the first try you can have another 
bite at the apple. 
One example of the kind of minor blip that can throw off an  ambitious trip 
is that, as I recall, it took a while to realize that taxis in  Lyon are 
all radio cabs, so you can't hail one, and in fact would have  to equip 
yourself ahead of time with the phone number of a radio cab  service, telephone 
a 
number to tell someone in French where you are so they  can pick you up, 
which means you have to be able to describe the location in  French. I have a 
vivid memory of my husband and myself walking to the point of  exhaustion in 
Lyon, then spotting the actual office of a radio taxi business,  staggering 
in and pleading for a cab. This was not the day of the transit  strike, by 
the way, but a normal day.
 
Devon

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