Re: old pictures
On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: just looking at some old pictures of london.pm meetings and YAPC::Europe and i came across the classic, London.pm drinking in a hair dressing salon, http://217.34.97.146/~gem/pics/london.pm/2000/july/DSCF0036.JPG Toilet seats don't make as good props as skateboards - we need to somehow smuggle an inflatable dinghy into a pub. A. -- A HREF = http://termisoc.org/~betty; Betty @ termisoc.org /A As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: bad greg
On Wed, 30 May 2001, Chris Ball wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 08:27:19AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: i'm sorry about asking this, but i've purged too many old archives of london.pm to find this one - someone one once mentioned a domain name registry with a neat web based management system for handling the dns wizardry afterwards - could they please remind me of the url? 123-reg.co.uk is my favourite at the moment.. I found gandi.net to be the nicest for TLDs, most of my IRL friends use them. A. -- A HREF = http://termisoc.org/~betty; Betty @ termisoc.org /A As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: SQL statements to DB Schema (dia ?)
On Wed, 30 May 2001, Leo Lapworth wrote: You might want to check out: Arron's Autodia - http://autodia.cuckoo.org/ It's not quite at the stage I think you are after but I've lost track of what it can and can't do. Last I heard they were putting it up to be an candidate in the elections (actually, it's probably more intelligent than one of them!). Though the DB stuff might have been a conversation about GraphViz.. woo.. so many choices :) hmm... SQL to Dia. Shouldn't be too hard to add the only issue would be which shapes to use, I've never drawn a database scheme in Dia - anybody care to reccomend some shapes and how they shoudl map to stuff - then I'll code some DB handling magic into autodia. btw - the current version of autodia (0.9) now handles c++ (if its very simple) and perl (extracts *most* info) and has lots of lovelly commad line options. A. -- A HREF = http://termisoc.org/~betty; Betty @ termisoc.org /A As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Python beats perl to dia plugin..
*grump* There is a python plugin to Gnome Dia allowing you to write scripts for dia. I don't know if it is like GIMPS scripting or more of a macro type thing but its a little disapointing there isn't a perl one. Dia 0.88 has an experiemental pyhton plugin capability. I would be interested in finding out hpw hard it would be to do the equivilent for perl - a la The Gimp. Anyone know much about how the GIMP script -fu stuff works on the inside, or shall I hunt through the gimp dev list which I have a feeling could be mentally scarring. A. -- A HREF = http://termisoc.org/~betty; Betty @ termisoc.org /A As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: re-release of autodial
On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 02:03:59PM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote: Q: Why is AutoDIAL so rubbish. A: Because Trelane told me to 'just release it' although blame is automatically deferred to Muttley because everything is his fault. HEY! Actually I think it was me who told him to "release early, release often". But he's right, it is muttley's fault. yes but trelane told me to just release it, but then i was drunk and it seemed like a good idea at the time, m'lord. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
re-release of autodial
the new version of autodial - codenamed DiaKiller, is available at http://droogs.org/autodial/ it no longer kills dia, in fact it works quite well with a few caveats - it is much easier to test with Dia, rather than parsing the xml in my head. :) A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Disclaimer
On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Robert Shiels wrote: A lot of you write and distribute free perl code. What do you do about copyright and disclaimers in the code itself. I've had a look at a few examples and it seems you don't really bother. I think it is probably worth doing, and we will need one for the NotMattsScripts project, so does anyone have a good concise copyright and disclaimer notice for free Perl code? I've googled around and can't find anything I like. The simplist would be # Name - brief description. (c) Copyright 2001 A Nother # # This is free software available under the same license as perl itself # This sofwate comes with NO WARRANTY. For more information see URL or FILE. The NO WARRANTY bit is fairly important, as is specifiying uunder what license it is made availab.e - common are Public Doman (not teh default, default is all rights reserved), BSD artistic license (fairly similar) and the GNU GPL and LGPL. I habitually use the GPL, I have only recently realised how much of a pig it can be to keep a derived work compliant. It will now take as long to audit the changes made to mny derived work of mwforum as it did to do some of the debugging. This is a good thing and a bad thing - It does mean you keep more control over your work, but at the same time it means that there is little reward for doing a major piece of work on somebody elses code, even if you replace 99% of it, its still entirely their copyright and not yours, so you essentially hand over your moral rights to waht you have done. I could be wrong of course - buit that is how it seems. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Dia diagrams from your perl!
I have uploaded AutoDIAL to my site where it can now be downloaed. It creates UML class diagrams showing relationshiops, methods, attributes, etc for a bunch of scripts/modules and lays them out ready for autodial to use, although I think the relationship line plotting is a little broken. It requires template toolkit and perl base, it doesn't need dia. It might not work on windows. Hopefully it should be easy to modify to handle other languages such as C, or python, or god forbid, Java. and it can be found at http://droogs.org/autodial/ yeay! A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Dia diagrams from your perl!
On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote: and it can be found at http://droogs.org/autodial/ The download link is b0rked though fixed A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
RE: Disclaimer
On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote: [broken quoting snipped] You want the GPL for that. Which means that you can't use my copyright message as it includes the Artisitc License - which doesn't disallow your point 2. The GPL doesn't stop you selling the derived work. What it *does* do, however is to say that the derived work must be under a GPL-compatible license, which makes it, in general, uneconomical to sell the work. The common mis-perception about the GPL is that you can't sell or profit from selling GPL software. You can sell at any price you like, the software with or without nice pakcaging and manuals, you can sell the support at any price you like and you can sell the manuals at any price you like. All you have to do is publish it under the GPL and make the source available at cost price or reasonabley close. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
pix of legend?
do we still have the pictures from the night of award winning drunkeness? I'sd d certainly be interested at having another look. Also the website has a few gaps picture wise.. did nobody bring a camera on that many times? btw the trophy cabinet will get done once I have a job again. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: from ntk
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, James Powell wrote: RANDAL SCHWARTZ slams London.pm's "Perl is my bitch" T-Shirt - odd, considering: http://www.stonehenge.com/perl/amihooternot/ ... thats a bit slow for ntk or is squackers lagging behind (void) where all the action happened yonks ago. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Buffycode (was Re: That book)
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:44:07 +0100, Robin Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 11:35:33AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: Would this be an appropriate time to point out that my TPC talk proposes the creation of a Parse::Perl::Approx module :) What does it do? It, er... parses Perl. ooh! I though only perl parsed perl.. how exactly does it parse perl... no its okay I'll look at the pod.. /me cpan's. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Job: I'm looking for one..
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, alex wrote: easier said than done - it's a lot easier to hire good people than convince clients that perl is the way forward - i may be wrong but i think there are less and less big Perl projects out there available to perl consultancies. once you get to a particular price bracket (necessary to afford and retain uber perl hackers) people start wanting to hear the corporate technology buzzwords - j2ee, open market, bea, sap, siebel etc This does appear to be true, mind you many companies are recruiting perl developers for themselves. This is healthy. I think a lot of companies see j2ee, weblogic, etc as 'safe' despite quite catastrophic failures and the high cost (the price of a consultant or contractor for any of these buzz technologies is 2 or 3 times the price for less trendy technologies). I think java is likely to be associated with a load of spectacular failures. I don't think any project has failed because of cost or flaws in perl, and major companies are migrating towards perl and oss in general. many vendors like weblogic are claiming sites liek amazon use technology when they have migrated to perl. perhaps its time to beat these vendors at their own game with a list of their clients who have migrated. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Job: I'm looking for one..
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Aaron Trevena ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I think its partially the vendors fault - they are pushing java as a solution for things it clearly isn't right for. out of curiousity - such as (i.e. which vendors are pushing java for inappropriate problem sapces)? Plain and simply I don't think java is the right technology for e-commerce, plain and simple. Accounting, some business processes map well to java but not all and certainly not anything involving parsing and suchlike of any kind. I don't think java is suitable for client/server systems either - having both written and used java client/server apps, the networking classes in 1.2 and 1.3 suck badly and make the code long, slow and unclear. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Job: I'm looking for one..
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Robin Houston wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:23:01PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: I concur. There is simply too much of the important stuff missing from Java to make it useable for web content delivery as far as I can tell. I just couldn't do half of what I do without regexes Since excellent regex libraries are freely available, this is akin to claiming that Perl is useless for writing HTTP clients because LWP isn't in the core ;-) any regex that requires 8 lines to do what perl does in 1 is hardly excellent. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Matt's Scripts Projects
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 05:48:25PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 05:38:09PM +, David Cantrell wrote: Then they deserve to be hurt. Really. We can't possibly support dribbling idiots, and frankly, I have no wish to do so. If someone is scared by a .tar.gz extension then they have no business installing software. Even if just for their own use. I thought one of the goals of this project was to support "dribbling idiots"? Idiots maybe, but not those who are sooo lacking in necessary skills that they are scared by gzipped tarballs. Don't forget, these morons are going to have to know how to get the files to their server, do the appropriate chmodding, tweak config variables in the script - if you're clueless enough to be scared off by .tar.gz then you're guaranteed to fail anyway. I don't know - maybe in your inexperience you have a windowsy perl book (there are some out there) or a poor cgi book to work from that never mentions tgz or .tar.gz - its an additional obstacle - they'd only go an use MSA. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: wasn't someone looking for some diagramming - SQL stuff recently?
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Mark Fowler wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, James Powell wrote: http://freshmeat.net/projects/dia2sql/ I was looking for some tools to create diagrams with but Ooooh! Anyhow, now all we need is a GraphViz to dia tool ;-). Which reminds me, how's things going with your Perl-UML Aaron? Ah! It is going rather well - I've just cme back from my holiday in stratford upon avon and should have a nice OO perl module working by midweek, then I will get back to work on what i was working on before I got sidetracked (I have an excuse).. My TT'd mwforum is stalled atm due to a sudden realisation that repeating the dull but quite hairy job of replacing all the intermangled html/sql in mwforum needs to be repeated several more times before I would dare show it to anybody, other than mstevens who hopefully will receive a less godawful version before he looks at the current hack I mailed him. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Strange Request
### warning - creature feep ### On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote: this question defines the archive of scripts a little. is the collection of scripts specifically aimed at the lowest commond denominator and tackling the MW problem directly, or is that just its core mission, and other scripts are welcome. I don't think we actually need to lower to teh lowest common denominator - by applying the ROPE idea it should be possible to provide some easy bundles with their own namespace that the user can just unzip and ftp to their own local_modules/rope. If you provide scripts that work with perl5.x base but also provide scripts that use rope::lite, or rope::intermediate bundles the user will still be interested in using the bundle and we can encourage them to use modules and set them on the path to rightesusness. I think something like this would be the ultimate test of the ROPE concept. Given that there will be idiot proof scripts replacing msa ones, these will be limited greatly by not using modules, assuming a simple web based layout you can hive nice icons saying that Script N is **ready to run**, **requires rope::lite**, **requires rope::intermediate**, **requires quite a lot**, **requires apache**, **requires a little know how**, etc. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: DJ jabbers on the O'Reilly Network
On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:24:10 -, "Robert Shiels" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.oreillynet.com/ DJ Adams, yet another famous London Perl Monger! With a photo as well no less. Not just _any_ photo, but one of him drinking beer at a london.pm meeting. http://london.pm.org/MeetPics3.html Well done DJ. Seconded. suggestion for website: How about a page of our acheivments? ie CPAN modules, Books, credits, talks and drinking feats? A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: DJ jabbers on the O'Reilly Network
On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Dean wrote: On Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 10:39:43AM +, Aaron Trevena wrote: suggestion for website: How about a page of our acheivments? ie CPAN modules, Books, credits, talks and drinking feats? If you were going to do this shouldn't they just go under the member pages on london.pm.org? could do - but I like the idea of a trophy cabinet type thing.. people can be proud to have added something to the london.pm trophy cabinet. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Graphical Documentation
On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Mark Fowler wrote: On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Marcel Grunauer wrote: 1. Thingys showing SQL tables. Have a look at http://www.codewerk.com. On the projects page, download GraphViz::DBI and dbigraph.pl. See the sample database table graph linked from that page. I'm working on making it more flexible and pretty. Oooh, ahhh. Looks really nice. Now the only problem with this is that it requires me to actually have created the database. We're not at this stage yet (though I will see if I can knock up a diagram of our current old database schema so we can have some reference.) Gnome Dia has been quite good for designed classes and database tables. Also worth a look is gnome-db which provides a nice UI to the database. Only problem is that there doesn't appear to be anything that offers Visio's reverse engineer database option. I am looking for some dia scripts to generate dia xml from perl classes or databases thru dbi/odbc. I might have to write an xml generator by reusing code from GraphViz::DBI or just from scratch. Anyone else been working on something like that before I start? Oh, there seems to be something odd with that server set up. Because my copy of Gnome-Terminal does url catching I can Ctrl-Click on any url and it pops up in netscape. However, being a good url catcher it matches the '.' at the end of the url (as it should do.) Now this is really odd, as 'http://www.codewerk.com./' does not show the same thing as 'http://www.codewerk.com/' (which it should do as 'www.codewerk.com.profero.com' or 'www.codewerk.com.loc0.profero.com' doesn't exist on our network.) This is most odd. I've tried it from other locations (via the wonders of ssh tunnelling) and I get the same thing. I had that problem - try http:://www.codewerk.com/projects.html A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: good job there weren't any base belongs to us t-shirts printed
On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, James Powell wrote: Might have ended up like the last programme here (not for the easily offended) http://www.tvgohome.com/ cafepress have some aybabtu tees. There is a nice page of reworked cartoons and images with aybabtu worked in. Also totl.net has an aybabtu style whelk in its whelk page. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Amazon (was: RE: DMP Availability)
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote: Since I gave up Amazon, I've found myself going into bookshops more. Browsing in a bookshop is still _by far_ the best way to buy books. AOL And I end up buying more books. Because for each book that I got into the shop looking for, I find another two that seem really interesting. Amazon's "readers who bought this book..." feature really doesn't achieve the same thing. /me spent 100 quid on books last weekend in skoob books, PC bookshop and Books etc (walked from goswell road to charing cross street where I spent another 30 quid on prints and postcard prints, via holborn - quite pleseant walk as the city and its outskirts are nice and quiet at the weekend). A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Alternative to bad perl resources
Following the general feelings of the professional perl mongers on the list towards certain authors and script archives, I thought the perl mongers could build their own script recipebook on the net and provide secure but clear and simple and well explained example and instant cgi scripts as an alternative to Matt and other resources. Given that there are quite a few scripts out there, we could concentrate on having secure, well written and explain perl for key tasks like - search engine, forum, shopping cart and checkout (alternatives for mason, tt, etc). This would be something good to point beginners at - particularly if ORA give it some support. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Alternative to bad perl resources
On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: the best way to get this started, is simply to do it and then others will lend in their support, just put up a webpage with the first few candidates and let others comment That would make the large assumption that my perl is a good example. I hope that DragonForum (soon to be released, watch this space) will make a good alternative to wwwthreads and ubbs, but although it is now cleaner and template based it isn't really an example of good perl. Ditto the search engine based on the DDJ one. Hopefully I can bring it up to scratch as it is fairly simple. Of course I could put them up with a disclaimer saying that they aren't GOOD perl but are cleaner and easier to understand than most of the scripts on the web. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Alternative to bad perl resources
On 19 Feb 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Aaron Trevena [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That would make the large assumption that my perl is a good example. I hope that DragonForum (soon to be released, watch this space) will make a good alternative to wwwthreads and ubbs, but although it is now cleaner and template based it isn't really an example of good perl. I'm using mwf, and someone hereabouts threatened to TTify it, I think. yes - that were me. It is a quiet horrid job. I am splitting the thing into 3 layers and the templates. so far I have managed to greatly simplify things like forum_show.pl and make it much cleaner by removing a lot of presentation related code that really should be in the templates rather than embedded in perl code. It will take more work to make it a good example of code, in fact that may not even be possible if I want to keep it compatible (which I do) so that you can use the same DB and plugins. I estimate it will take 3 more weeks before I can release it. (because I have very little spare time at the mo). A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Alternative to bad perl resources
On 19 Feb 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Aaron Trevena [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is indeed, but this tends to require a fair amount of rewriting or be a horrible horrible kludge. Hmmm...there was one subroutine that did all the sandwich things...oh, no two. printHeader and printFooter. I done those. easy. but for it to work you want to be able to design the table layouts and stuff otherwise you are stuck with a horrid mix of mw's embedded html and templates. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Perl Books
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Greg Cope wrote: Aaron Trevena wrote: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: No, there wasn't even something I could buy for it sadly. It's a simple CGI, I would have paid $15 for a quickie 'here's your simple cgi just plug in your variables here' code. Been there - more often than not, the cookbook fills any holes. I had a particular problem with web forums - slashcode being a bit OTT and wwwthreads cotsing money and then hundreds of PHP and java and asp forums, then I found mwforum and now I am rewriting it big time to get back into coding after sitting on my arse for weeks waiting for work or chasing people up or editing html. If anybody is interested I hope to have a TT'd version of mwforum on the web some time next week. After that I will totally hack it apart and rework it to fit my own twisted needs. Are you going to send the patches back to the authors ? Patches? they are big - essentially you replace most of most of the files - not really worth patching. However yes it will be released and all orginal copyright notices are left intact and whenever I think appropriate I point out that it is derived from mwforum. and that all mwforum bits are copyright mw although to be honest I don't think a single line of the original will remain. I plan to 'do the right thing' and email mw before I post it anywhere so that I'm not stepping on his toes - I point out in the documenentaion how much I learnt from his work and stuff and that it works very well for what he designed it to do. Hopefully he will like it, that would make me very happy. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Perl Books
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:21:57AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: :) I think you are missing my point here. The plumber who is skilled in a trade probably thinks you are an idiot when you manage to mangle your own pipes and have to call him to fix it for you. However, I don't question the plumber's competence, or indeed pretend to anyone including myself that I can do a good job of it. The same should apply to programming. If I were to try my hand at re-plumbing my kitchen, I know I'd make a god-awful mess, and I am intelligent enough to not attempt it. The great unwashed should approach programming the same way. My old mans a catering lecture and pub landlord but just did all teh electrics and plumbing in the gutted cottage he bought in redruth in conrwall. He did so well that the gasman was surprised with the negligable drop in pressure when he tested. Now he is going to learn dreamweaver and I talked him into learning perl instead of java - because it would suit what he wants to do (mostly matts script kind of stuff) and pointed him at ora. I wish more people are like that, rather than people who believe that because they can write a word macro they are a programmer. I have been training at kung fu for 6 months and I still am not ready to take the first grading, I know I'm not good at it yet but I also know that I have a good instructor and that I can and will be good at it and I'll get it right, not just learn a couple of 10 minute self defense class rubbish. bah! This is more (void) than (void) A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Bad programming considered harmless
There is nothing wrong with bad programming. Sure, don't pay for it, sure don't use it for anything important or anything that will affect other people's lives. But lots of people get satisfaction and reward from making bad programs, just like they get satisfaction from singing badly in the shower, doing some bad gardening on a Sunday, and putting up a set of wonky shelves. Let's have more people programming badly! That is beautiful. I may have to put it somewhere on a page and let the meme spread freely.. Expertism is a dangerous trend. A little knowledge is _not_ a dangerous thing. The only dangerous thing is not knowing the _extent_ of your (little) knowledge. Definately. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Perl Books
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: No, there wasn't even something I could buy for it sadly. It's a simple CGI, I would have paid $15 for a quickie 'here's your simple cgi just plug in your variables here' code. Been there - more often than not, the cookbook fills any holes. I had a particular problem with web forums - slashcode being a bit OTT and wwwthreads cotsing money and then hundreds of PHP and java and asp forums, then I found mwforum and now I am rewriting it big time to get back into coding after sitting on my arse for weeks waiting for work or chasing people up or editing html. If anybody is interested I hope to have a TT'd version of mwforum on the web some time next week. After that I will totally hack it apart and rework it to fit my own twisted needs. If I wanted Java or PHP however, I could take my pick or reasonably quickly useful stuff. I didn't have the same results for Perl it is just not out there or my standards are too high and I was looking in the wrong place. A lot of programming is knowing where to look, If I hadn't been given a good lowdown on where to get decent Notes information I would have spent months getting anywhere but I was given the course notes for a notes course, a stack of Notes Magazines and a list of urls. Also bought myself the SAMs book on Notes Unleashed. I told my old man he'd learn pretty much all he needed to know from learning perl and perl cgi by ORA. Its much better than wasting tiem learning java or getting muddled with loads of crappy shareware or budget perl software. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: TPC5
On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote: (update on the OScon in Europe thing--London in August seems to be a bad idea, so we're looking elsewhere and elsewhen ...) In case anybody is interested the Devon Cornwall LUG will be helping organise a S/West UK OSS Conference for local businesses and academia. Anybody interested should contact myself and cc [EMAIL PROTECTED] or subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to join the discussion. We are also taking part in the linuxday nationwide installfest and if anybody is in the area they are more than welcome to come and join in (same contact details as above) rgds, A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: I know some people here had some experience with wwwthreads, but are there any alternatives? No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. With a little work wmforum is quite nice (easy enough to understand and therefore make more modular and port to templatetoolkit) also its GPL so you can fork it into something decent and release/use how you like. If you have used forum software before its pretty easy to bang a decent ofrum out of it. slashcode and kuro5hins code are fairly heavy and un-necessary (also wmforu works fine with mod_perl). http://www.mawic.de/mwforum/ A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. go on dave, it cant be that hard Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. Aside from all the inline HTML. ARGH! When will people learn! I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Aaron Trevena [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). Don't you hate it when that happens? I've managed to hack in the requisite headers and footers (a containing, constraining table) so I'm in business. Don't spose you could bang it on line once you've done a bit so I don't have to reapeat both of our work? A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At 18 Jan 2001 10:09:04 +, Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. Sounds good to me. Anyone else up for it? I would join but I appear to be jinxed at the moment. so it would be unfair on the rest ;) A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: PIMB T-shirts
On a tangentially related point - I've just overheard someone in the office mention the rumour that "Puff, the magic dragon" was "written by someone who was smoking a joint". I guess I'm just surprised that there are people to whom this fact isn't obvious. I thought it was about 'chasing the dragon' - ie heating a resinous substance on tinfoil with a lighter and inhaling the fumes, this is probably less bad for you than smoking stuff in a cigarette form. Although hookah pipes with resin are probably healthier still. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: PIMB T-shirts
On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Robin Houston wrote: On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 04:25:26PM +, Aaron Trevena wrote: ingestion has several downsides - lack of control of dosage (assuming you eat it at a significant lump at a time), longer effects, stronger effects (making it hard to get dosage right) and also slow absorbtion. Though all of those could be advantages too :-) yes - perfect for that ozrics or hawkwind gig. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Kung Foo and PIMB
On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, Mark Fowler wrote: On the back use Wutan::Style; This reminds me of the conversation Case, norm I had after crouching tiger.. we came to the conclusion that "no, neo, you **don't** know kung fu.". A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Mailman in Perl (Re: the list is dead, long live the list)
Following the interest in rope/pope, etc perhaps it would be an idea for some of the more perl / oss oriented companies in london (or wherever) to agree to take part in the project on a semi official basis - much of what the work that the london and UK companies do is replicated because of lack of comunications and worry over company secrets and competition. If a handful of london companies can put together a press release saying that they are supporting or backing the project with time, money, services in lieu, etc then it would be a publicity coup and get the ball rolling. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Mailman in Perl (Re: the list is dead, long live the list)
On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 08:28:25PM +, David Cantrell wrote: lynx -source http://go-gnome.com/ | sh that would rock. also what would be very valuable would be the ability to install from one config for a cluster or synchronise config changes (using a version control system of course). A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Simon Wistow wrote: Simon [who *lives* fro the 12 minute freebie of the Adult Channel at midnight] Ah - Myself and a housemate once lived the 'free porn' episode of friends - when we flicked thru he chennels and there was porn at 1am, I think we got bored about 1:30am and from there flicked channels until we got sucked into a painfully bad movie (apalling script, apalling dialogue) it was truly awful (imagine red shoe diaries but much longer and without the production script or acting quality)... we a re both suckers for a bad film we keep on telling ourselves it could be realy good any minute now that really banal script will turn into a beautifully crafted dialogue of wildesque prose but usually we are bitterly disapointed. Beast of war was a pleasent surprise though. A. obPMRef: buffy -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
irc again
erm.. whats the irc channel for london.pm again. I spose I'll have to download bitchx as well now. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: new years eve
On Sun, 31 Dec 2000, David Cantrell wrote: DAV-U-CRO wrote: Twas me. But a) I'm already doing stuff tonight and b) as you point out, I couldn't organise it at such sort notice. Yeah, and now that Greg's had to pull out as well it looks like it won't happen. But let's sort out a date for some time in January. Around the middle of the month. How are Friday the 12th and/or 19th for people? scuse the slow response but have been offline since dec 21st: mid jan sound good for paranois sesh - haven't played it in a while. I would offer to GM it but I'm not very good. Raining concrete slabs didn't go down well nor did the slippery slimey slope of salamanders. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
