[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi Lute Concerto

[Edward C. Yong]

Hi Michael,

Yes please, if you can find it. 

Thank you!

Best,

Edward

> On 15 Apr 2019, at 10:25 PM, Michael Vollbrecht  wrote:
> 
> Hello Edward,
> I made a quick tab of that concerto for Ren. Lute; if you still
> need it, I can send it to you -once I've found it...
> 
> All the Best
> 
> Michael Vollbrecht
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2019-04-11 at 16:39 +0800, Edward C. Yong wrote:
>> Dear Lute Collective,
>> 
>> Would anyone have the Vivadi Lute Concerto in D major RV 93 in tablature for 
>> G tuning?
>> 
>> Thank you in advance from Singapore!
>> 
>> Edward C. Yong
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> τούτο ηλεκτρονικόν ταχυδρομείον εκ είΦωνου εμεύ επέμφθη.
>> Hæ litteræ electronicæ ab iPhono missæ sunt.
>> 此電子郵件發送于自吾iPhone。
>> This e-mail was sent from my iPhone.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi Lute Concerto

[Michael Vollbrecht]

Hello Edward,
I made a quick tab of that concerto for Ren. Lute; if you still
need it, I can send it to you -once I've found it...

All the Best

Michael Vollbrecht


On Thu, 2019-04-11 at 16:39 +0800, Edward C. Yong wrote:
> Dear Lute Collective,
> 
> Would anyone have the Vivadi Lute Concerto in D major RV 93 in tablature for 
> G tuning?
> 
> Thank you in advance from Singapore!
> 
> Edward C. Yong
> 
> 
> 
> τούτο ηλεκτρονικόν ταχυδρομείον εκ είΦωνου εμεύ επέμφθη.
> Hæ litteræ electronicæ ab iPhono missæ sunt.
> 此電子郵件發送于自吾iPhone。
> This e-mail was sent from my iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[howard posner]

   I could not have said it better.

 On Oct 12, 2016, at 3:58 AM, Ralf Mattes  wrote:

 Doesn't it seem a little ironic that those who champion a technique
 that's 400 years old are calling Segovia's technique "old
 fashioned".
 Gary

 No. Unless you miss the subtle difference between "old" and "old
 fashioned".


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[howard posner]

If thumb out bothers you, you’ve been asleep the last 30 years.

> On Oct 12, 2016, at 9:26 AM, John Mardinly  wrote:
> 
>  Thumb out, nails, nylon strings, metal wound basses, metal frets, bone
>   saddle in bridge (Rubio lute), big sound, very hip.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[John Mardinly]

   Thumb out, nails, nylon strings, metal wound basses, metal frets, bone
   saddle in bridge (Rubio lute), big sound, very hip.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   But don't call the lab….I won't be there!

   On Oct 12, 2016, at 3:03 AM, Diego Cantalupi <[3]tio...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   Some very HIP thumb out Vivaldi.
   [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com
   _watch-3Fv-3DqyY5pB2a0cU=CwICbA=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4
   A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=Uvwpn9S28N1Ou3
   _jJVK7LoMzllyUfc7hp8CrLZjA8rw=Z7T0l9y-FbAll94HDsczkd6xvDHPOJ7EZcPJoWG
   a5Fc=
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=CwICbA=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Eji
   z41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=Uvw
   pn9S28N1Ou3_jJVK7LoMzllyUfc7hp8CrLZjA8rw=0muR66fCjmmqBcFCkn33nFVP3BN5
   _XesfPp8ZrzDbwU=

References

   1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   2. tel:408-921-3253
   3. mailto:tio...@gmail.com
   4. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DqyY5pB2a0cU=CwICbA=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=Uvwpn9S28N1Ou3_jJVK7LoMzllyUfc7hp8CrLZjA8rw=Z7T0l9y-FbAll94HDsczkd6xvDHPOJ7EZcPJoWGa5Fc=
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=CwICbA=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=Uvwpn9S28N1Ou3_jJVK7LoMzllyUfc7hp8CrLZjA8rw=0muR66fCjmmqBcFCkn33nFVP3BN5_XesfPp8ZrzDbwU=

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Robert Gallagher]

I would call that a “thumbs-up” performance.  Wonderful.  Larger orchestra 
than I would have liked but you can always count on Bream to put musicality 
first.  All best, Robert

Robert Gallagher
Tour Béryl BAL 68-3
40, avenue d’Italie
75013 Paris FRANCE

+33 (0) 983 79 70 48

> On 12 Oct 2016, at 12:03, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:
> 
> Some very HIP thumb out Vivaldi.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyY5pB2a0cU
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Diego Cantalupi]

Some very HIP thumb out Vivaldi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyY5pB2a0cU



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[gary]

Doesn't it seem a little ironic that those who champion a technique
that's 400 years old are calling Segovia's technique "old fashioned".

Gary

On 2016-10-11 05:04, Ron Andrico wrote:

> As a musician who did NOT come to the lute via classical guitar, I am
> alternately amused and discouraged that the argument of guitar
> technique versus an approved "authentic" lute technique is still an
> issue.  This argument is an unfortunate artifact of the late 20th lute
> fad, and those who are still banging away on this issue are overlooking
> information in the historical sources.
>
> For the record, I do not play single-strung lutes, and I understand
> from reading historical source material that single-strung theorbos
> were just as rare as single-strung archlutes.  But they are an accepted
> modern compromise.  Likewise, I do not use nails, but Alessandro
> Piccinini and other historical figures did.
>
> The truth is that there were and are many ways to approach historical
> music.  Until we learn to live without all modern conveniences -
> electronic tuners, photocopied or digital scores, electric lights,
> indoor plumbing - the idea that we can today decide on narrow
> parameters that describe historical performance is a rather ludicrous
> exercise in fantasy.
>
> I have increasingly moved toward an attempt to perform only in
> appropriate-sized spaces and I tend to put an enormous amount of effort
> in producing historically integrated programs using the proper
> instruments.  Taste is a subjective and individual phenomenon but some
> of us have traversed beyond the old guitar versus lute argument and
> have come to listen with an open mind and judge a performance based
> upon its musicality.
> RA
> __
>
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
> of Jarosław Lipski <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 8:47 AM
> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
>
> Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca's
> performance was very successful. On the other hand one may ask
> questions like: why someone plays single strung archlute if there is
> little evidence for this type of instrument, why someone uses
> fingernails if the evidence speaks against using them, and why someone
> uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who'll find any evidence
> for this :)) And if all of this is used simultaneously, then one may
> assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much more
> guitar-like, and most of lute players started their musical education
> as guitarists. Another problem is the fear of not being heard by an
> audience especially when playing in a group .
> Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out that
> there are 2 ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone who has
> no experience in early music may feel a little bit confused.
> Best
> JL
>> On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
>>> Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is 
>>> another
> version of RV93 played by Luca here
> [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog
> <[2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog>
> [3][th?id=OVP.Va5d2ebab5ddfdd8da4e4d0cbe68b82dapid=Api]
> [4]Vivaldi RV93 Luca Pianca
> www.youtube.com [1]
> Vivaldi RV93 played by Il Giardino Armonico with a Swiss born solo
> lutenist Luca Pianca.
> [5][th?id=OVP.Va5d2ebab5ddfdd8da4e4d0cbe68b82dapid=Api]
> [6]Vivaldi RV93 Luca Pianca
> www.youtube.com [1]
> Vivaldi RV93 played by Il Giardino Armonico with a Swiss born solo
> lutenist Luca Pianca.
>>> The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for
> this type of archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly
> noticed. Luca uses fingernails, so this is another factor that
> influences the overall sound (not only mics).
>>> JL
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> on a good authority of RT.
>>>> Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
>>>> RT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, JarosÃ...âEURšaw Lipski wrote:
>>>>> Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
>>>>> JL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute
> by Luc Bret

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Jarosław Lipski]

> On 12 Oct 2016, at 01:00, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, where will it end?  I'll end my commentary by clearing up a few points.  
> I don't believe I even mentioned the term historically-informed performance 
> in my discussion.  HIP is not necessarily a hard and fast objective measure 
> because whenever the term is mentioned, you must ask the question, 
> "...according to whom?"  
> 

Here is a quotation from your original post which triggered this discussion:

Hmm...Historically-informed must have taken on a different meaning
  while I wasn't paying attention.  I should think Luca Pianca and his
  Italian compatriots might have a bit more of a secure connection with
  Vivaldi's music than the American's you name.  O'Dette recorded this
  music with a silly little chirpy mandolino playing with a rather stiff
  sounding band.  McFarlane's interpretation is vibrant and lovely but
  what we hear in this video with Luca Pianca has everything to do with a
  microphone placement that allows the lute to be heard above the rest of
  the band, as is certainly the case in the other recordings mentioned.
  As far as I can tell, single stringing was sometimes used by the old
  ones but Luca Pianca's hand position is definitely
  historically-accurate for Vivaldi's era.  The under thumb approach
  ceased to exist with the advent of many additional basses, circa 1600,
  and those who use that hand position in baroque music today are
  not using an historically-informed approach.  So unless
  historically-informed now has something to do with microphone
  placement, I think the video example is compelling and musical.



> Speedy O'Dette's use of a mandolino is a serious stretch of imagination.  I 
> happen to know McFarlane has pickups installed in his lutes.  Diego C's 
> performance was very nice but he did use some unhistorical variation 
> techniques in his decorated repeats, plus added uncommonly long pauses at the 
> ends of some phrases, plus the unhistorical mega-band.  Luca's performance 
> incorporated transposition and a single-strung archlute but I can tell you 
> without hesitation that historical theorbos were NOT single-strung either. 

See Howard’s comment

> He also used a floating hand position with thumb out.  So does Nigel North.  
> He also used nails.  So did Piccinini, and so does Stephen Stubbs. 
> 

I can’t see anything wrong with a floating hand position. Finger marks on 
original old lutes show that it was used quite often. Nigel doesn’t use 
nails, and this is why his tone is so beautiful.


> I am sorry to say that the guitar-lute controversy lives on whether people 
> would like to admit it or no.


There is no guitar-lute controversy. There is only a style problem which some 
consciously ignore.


>   I don't happen to carry that baggage, but I do take care to inform myself. 

So do I and quite a lot of us

> Taste is indeed subjective but if the idea of HIP is popped out of its ugly 
> socket, it must be applied evenly to all involved in comparison.
> 

No problem, the only thing is that it’s not a very best idea to construct a 
theory on a precedent. And I say again, I don’t want to judge someone’s 
performance, my only concern is that people use HIP term with some care.

JL

> 
> 
> 
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of 
> Jarosław Lipski <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 7:28 PM
> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
>  
> My, my…were will it all end? ;)
> The discussion diverged from a simple question to a very complicated topic, 
> and I won’t go into details as this is not the best place for this kind of 
> discussion, and so many books were written about it, however I just would 
> like to point out some problems in this train of thought. Before doing this I 
> have to stress again that we are not talking about assessing someone’s 
> performance. There aren’t in fact 2 camps - inherently musical 
> interpretation versus historically accurate one. One may, or may not like 
> Luca’s performance. This is personal and irrelevant. This is much broader. 
> Firstly there is nothing amusing in talking about authenticity providing that 
> it is understood properly. Authentic does not mean identical to what old ones 
> did. On the other hand I can sense here a lute player-syndrome. When a 
> cellist begins training as a gamba player in a music school he/she is taught 
> how to bow and phrase in accordance with a present knowledge of a given style 
> (be it Rena!
 is!
>  sance or Baroque). Then, providing that education is of high quality a style 
> becomes somehow ones second nature (hopefully). Have you ever heard a well 
> educated gamba player that would us

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[howard posner]

> On Oct 11, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
>   HIP is not
>   necessarily a hard and fast objective measure because whenever the term
>   is mentioned, you must ask the question, "...according to whom?"
> 
>   Speedy O'Dette's use of a mandolino is a serious stretch of
>   imagination.  

When O’Dette (whose first name is Paul, by the way) made the recording, much of 
the lute world believed that the lute part should sound at violin pitch, 
requiring a small instrument. It was the latest in HIP.  Paul actually 
concluded that the violin-pitch theory was wrong not long after the recording 
came out.

> Luca's performance incorporated transposition

well, no.

>   and a single-strung archlute but I can tell you without hesitation that
>   historical theorbos were NOT single-strung either.  

Someone should have told Praetorius.

And Joseph Langenwalder, who made the single-strung theorbo in the Vienna 
Kunsthistorisches Museum.

And Pietro Railich, who made the single-strung theorbos in the Brussels Musee 
Instrumental and the Rome Museo degli Strumenti Musicale.  He also made the 
double-strung theorbo in the Hessisches Landesmuseum.

And the 4 anonymous makers of the single-strung theorbos in the Musei e 
Gallerie di Milano, Stockholm Musikhistoriska Museet, Oberosterreichisches 
Landesmuseum and the Burg Seebenstein collection.

And Mattheus Buchenberg (Lisbon Museu da Musica, and Brussels Musee 
Instrumental), Matthias Alban and Magnus Steger (Uneo Gakuen Collection in 
Tokyo), and Wendelio Venere (Musee de la Musique, Paris) and a few others.

There are at least a dozen surviving single-strung theorbos.  Given the small 
size of the theorbo fossil record, that number indicates that single-strung 
theorbos were common, particularly since players could single-string 
instruments that had pegs for double stringing.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Jarosław Lipski]

My, my…were will it all end? ;)
The discussion diverged from a simple question to a very complicated topic, and 
I won’t go into details as this is not the best place for this kind of 
discussion, and so many books were written about it, however I just would like 
to point out some problems in this train of thought. Before doing this I have 
to stress again that we are not talking about assessing someone’s 
performance. There aren’t in fact 2 camps - inherently musical interpretation 
versus historically accurate one. One may, or may not like Luca’s 
performance. This is personal and irrelevant. This is much broader. Firstly 
there is nothing amusing in talking about authenticity providing that it is 
understood properly. Authentic does not mean identical to what old ones did. On 
the other hand I can sense here a lute player-syndrome. When a cellist begins 
training as a gamba player in a music school he/she is taught how to bow and 
phrase in accordance with a present knowledge of a given style (be it Renais!
 sance or Baroque). Then, providing that education is of high quality a style 
becomes somehow ones second nature (hopefully). Have you ever heard a well 
educated gamba player that would use a modern bow, modern or romantic phraising 
claiming he/she is HIP? I haven’t. And this is due to the fact that lute 
history is a little bit more complicated than gamba’s, and not everything is 
absolutely clear untill the present day, and musicologists can not agree on 
various important details. Some use this  as an excuse for unrestricted 
interpretations. And so far I wouldn’t object. The only problem I have is to 
accept the situation when someone plays  or interprets the way which is not in 
line with widespread knowledge and claims being HIP. “I” should stand for 
INFORMED not IGNORED. So if one doesn’t insist on using this magic label I 
feel happy and can listen solely to musical performance even if it’s a 
Vivaldi's amplified ukulele concerto accompanied by a symphonic orch!
 estra dressed in space outfits ;) If performance is convincing!
 …fantastic! But shouldn’t we use HIP label a little bit more carefully? It 
means “in accordance with a present knowledge”, nothing more, nothing less. 
You do not have to live without all modern conveniences in order to be HIP. You 
cannot enter the same river twice as they say, so don’t even try, but you can 
play in accordance to the available knowledge musically, and give phenomenal 
performances,  which I wish us all :)
JL



> On 11 Oct 2016, at 14:04, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> As a musician who did NOT come to the lute via classical guitar, I am 
> alternately amused and discouraged that the argument of guitar technique 
> versus an approved "authentic" lute technique is still an issue.  This 
> argument is an unfortunate artifact of the late 20th lute fad, and those who 
> are still banging away on this issue are overlooking information in the 
> historical sources.
> 
> For the record, I do not play single-strung lutes, and I understand from 
> reading historical source material that single-strung theorbos were just as 
> rare as single-strung archlutes.  But they are an accepted modern compromise. 
>  Likewise, I do not use nails, but Alessandro Piccinini and other historical 
> figures did. 
> 
> The truth is that there were and are many ways to approach historical music.  
> Until we learn to live without all modern conveniences - electronic tuners, 
> photocopied or digital scores, electric lights, indoor plumbing - the idea 
> that we can today decide on narrow parameters that describe historical 
> performance is a rather ludicrous exercise in fantasy.  
> 
> I have increasingly moved toward an attempt to perform only in 
> appropriate-sized spaces and I tend to put an enormous amount of effort in 
> producing historically integrated programs using the proper instruments.  
> Taste is a subjective and individual phenomenon but some of us have traversed 
> beyond the old guitar versus lute argument and have come to listen with an 
> open mind and judge a performance based upon its musicality.
> 
> RA
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of 
> Jarosław Lipski <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 8:47 AM
> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
>  
> Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca’s 
> performance was very successful. On the other hand one may ask questions 
> like: why someone plays single strung archlute if there is little evidence 
> for this type of instrument, why someone uses fingernails if the evidence 
> speaks against using them, and why someone uses amplification (Noble prize 
> for someone who’ll find any evid

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Charles Mokotoff]

   I agree with John, I'd probably take that a little further as I am a
   big fan of Segovia, but lets leave it at that. Segovia was entirely
   capable of playing rhythmically precise when he was in an ensemble. I
   wish some of that carried over to his solo playing, but it was a
   different time.
   I am with the camp that prefers an inherently musical interpretation to
   a necessarily historically accurate one, if you can do both, so much
   the better!

   On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 12:23 PM, John Mardinly
   <[1]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:

Not true!
 "Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc." for
 his
solo playing, but when he played with an ensemble, he was forced
 to be
disciplined and musical, like it or not. Just listen to his
 recordings
of Rodrigo's Fantasia para un Gentlehombre, Ponce's Concerto del
 Sur,
and Castelnuovo-Tedesco's Guitar Quintet.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
On Oct 11, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Roman Turovsky
 <[1][2]r.turov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
There is really nothing Segovian about it.
A Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc.
RT
On 10/11/2016 5:09 AM, Diego Cantalupi wrote:
  The question is different:
  why one should play a baroque lute concerto on a lute-shaped
 guitar
  using an old fashon Segovian style?
  Il 11/10/2016 10:47, JarosÅaw Lipski ha scritto:
  On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky
 <[2][3]r.turov...@gmail.com>
  wrote:
  Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that
 are
  absent is this.
  Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some
 without.
  Stephen Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov
  without.
  RT
  Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said
 Luca's
  performance was very successful. On the other hand one may ask
  questions like: why someone plays single strung archlute if
 there is
  little evidence for this type of instrument, why someone uses
  fingernails if the evidence speaks against using them, and why
  someone uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who'll find
 any
  evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used
 simultaneously,
  then
  one may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much
 more
  guitar-like, and most of lute players started their musical
  education
  as guitarists. Another problem is the fear of not being heard
 by an
  audience especially when playing in a group .
  Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out
 that
  there are 2 ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone
 who
  has
  no experience in early music may feel a little bit confused.
  Best
  JL
  On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, JarosÅaw Lipski wrote:
  Name it as you like, for me itââ¬â¢s a Liuto forte. There is
 another
  version of RV93 played by Luca here
  [3][4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
 3A__www.youtube.
  com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog=CwIFaQ=
 AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41
  FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3N
 w-61ygSK-LNEQ=3P9
  QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0=
 lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBTy
  y2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U=
  <[4][5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
 3A__www.youtube
  .com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog=CwIFaQ=
 AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz4
  1FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3N
 w-61ygSK-LNEQ=3P
  9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0=
 lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBT
  yy2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U= >
  The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence
 for
  this type of archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard
 rightly
  noticed. Luca uses fingernails, so this is another factor that
  influences the overall sound (not only mics).
  JL
  On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky
 <[5][6]r.turov...@gmail.com>
  wrote:
  on a good authority of RT.
  Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
  RT
  On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, JarosÃâaw Lipski wrote:
  Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
  JL
  On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky
 <[6][7]r.turov...@gmail.com>
  wrote:
  It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute
  by Luc Breton.
  RT
  On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, JarosÃâaw Lipski wrote:
  The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto
  attiorbato, 

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[John Mardinly]

   Not true!
"Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc." for his
   solo playing, but when he played with an ensemble, he was forced to be
   disciplined and musical, like it or not. Just listen to his recordings
   of Rodrigo's Fantasia para un Gentlehombre, Ponce's Concerto del Sur,
   and Castelnuovo-Tedesco's Guitar Quintet.
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Oct 11, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   There is really nothing Segovian about it.
   A Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc.
   RT
   On 10/11/2016 5:09 AM, Diego Cantalupi wrote:

 The question is different:
 why one should play a baroque lute concerto on a lute-shaped guitar
 using an old fashon Segovian style?
 Il 11/10/2016 10:47, Jarosław Lipski ha scritto:

 On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky <[2]r.turov...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that are
 absent is this.
 Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some without.
 Stephen Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov
 without.
 RT

 Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca's
 performance was very successful. On the other hand one may ask
 questions like: why someone plays single strung archlute if there is
 little evidence for this type of instrument, why someone uses
 fingernails if the evidence speaks against using them, and why
 someone uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who'll find any
 evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used simultaneously,
 then
 one may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much more
 guitar-like, and most of lute players started their musical
 education
 as guitarists. Another problem is the fear of not being heard by an
 audience especially when playing in a group .
 Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out that
 there are 2 ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone who
 has
 no experience in early music may feel a little bit confused.
 Best
 JL

 On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

 Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another
 version of RV93 played by Luca here
 [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.
 com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog=CwIFaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41
 FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=3P9
 QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0=lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBTy
 y2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U=
 <[4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube
 .com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog=CwIFaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz4
 1FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=3P
 9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0=lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBT
 yy2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U= >
 The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for
 this type of archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly
 noticed. Luca uses fingernails, so this is another factor that
 influences the overall sound (not only mics).
 JL

 On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky <[5]r.turov...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 on a good authority of RT.
 Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
 RT
 On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

 Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
 JL

 On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky <[6]r.turov...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute
 by Luc Breton.
 RT
 On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

 The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto
 attiorbato, but a liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca
 Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use it,
 however I would be far from saying that this is a historical
 instrument - see here
 [7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-2Dforte
 .com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html=CwIFaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZF
 k4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=3P9QDlxbO
 gfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0=JQXm-pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UAt
 sertUf4NRHJ0=
 <[8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-2Dfort
 e.com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html=CwIFaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZ
 Fk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=3P9QDlxb
 OgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0=JQXm-pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UA
 tsertUf4NRHJ0= > It’s easier to
 play and was specially created with guitarists in mind.
 Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque.
 Having said that, his performance from musical point of view
 was successful, and I am glad to see people talking 

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[jmpoirier2]

   So do I ! Well done Diego !

   Jean-Marie

   Envoyé depuis mon appareil Samsung

    Message d'origine 
   De : Jarosław Lipski <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl>
   Date : 11/10/2016 2:31 PM (GMT+01:00)
   À : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
   Very nicely played Diego, with taste. I like your version. My
   congratulations ;)
   JL
   > On 11 Oct 2016, at 09:10, Diego Cantalupi <tio...@gmail.com> wrote:
   >
   > Here's my version:
   >
   > https://youtu.be/dkPp4pDWGQI
   >
   > I used an 'ordinary' archlute. In my opinion there are no problems
   about single or double strings, but mainly about good taste and
   esthetic.
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Jarosław Lipski]

Very nicely played Diego, with taste. I like your version. My congratulations ;)
JL


> On 11 Oct 2016, at 09:10, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:
> 
> Here's my version:
> 
> https://youtu.be/dkPp4pDWGQI
> 
> I used an 'ordinary' archlute. In my opinion there are no problems about 
> single or double strings, but mainly about good taste and esthetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Daniel Shoskes]

I love this thread. Started as an open ended question about wadyathinkaboutthis 
and has become a Rorschach test for HIP interpretation. 

First off, the I in HIP is informed, not identical. As our musicological and 
historical lutherie evidence grows, we can try to recreate and imitate aspects 
of original performance within modern limitations (maybe the sound was heard 
differently if half the audience had tertiary syphilis?!). Many of these things 
will impact the sound a lot, others minimally or not at all. If a piece was 
written for a 12 course lute and you play it on a 13 course instrument I don’t 
think you are losing its essence. For solo music I think the sound is quite 
different between single and double strung lutes, for continuo in a large band, 
maybe not so perceptible. Of course gut is a different sound to synthetic but 
if you don’t have the luxury of a humidity controlled hall and you are running 
from the airport to the gig with a 1 hour rehearsal, there’s no point having 
that better gut sound if everything goes out of tune every 5 minutes. 

What clearly is HIP is using the resources at hand for the gig of the day. I’m 
sure Weiss didn’t worry about finding a re-entrant theorbo to play continuo in 
an Italian opera (did he even play those?) when he had his d minor tuned German 
Theorbo at hand. If a continuo player got arthritis and couldn’t twist their 
wrist to play thumb out, I’m sure they did just fine recreating the sound thumb 
under. I’ve heard Sylvan Bergeron play continuo with his single strung archlute 
thumb under in anachronistic rep and it was both highly musical and audible. 
I’m relying on memory of reading concert notes or perhaps a CD booklet but I 
THINK the type of lute Vivaldi had in mind for this concerto is unclear or 
perhaps controversial. Given that it’s mostly single line alternating with 
chords, it’s not a stretch to play it on a Ren or Baroque tuned instrument. 

To the performance, listening with my eyes closed, there are things I like and 
things I don’t. I really don’t like the playing of the bowed strings. I do like 
the improvisational ornaments added to the solo line (although I think there 
were a couple trills starting on the lower note). Listening to some of the 
recordings I own, which of course is not a direct comparison with a live 
performance, I do prefer O’Dette, Lindberg, Lislevand and McFarlane to this, 
both for the solo playing and for the accompaniment but these are great players 
and all the performances (including the video) are good. With my eyes open 
watching the video, the right hand is very guitaristic with the thumb playing 
very un-baroque free stroke and a few finger rest strokes I thought I saw. For 
me, falls in the category of “they didn’t do it that way” but given the single 
strung instrument I don’t think it really changes the sound much. 

Danny

> On Oct 11, 2016, at 6:16 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:
> 
> Let's say that his playing is quite irritating for me.
> 
> Inviato da iPhone
> 
>> Il giorno 11 ott 2016, alle ore 11:46, Roman Turovsky  
>> ha scritto:
>> 
>> 
>> There is really nothing Segovian about it.
>> 
>> A Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc.
>> 
>> RT
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/11/2016 5:09 AM, Diego Cantalupi wrote:
>>> The question is different:
>>> 
>>> why one should play a baroque lute concerto on a lute-shaped guitar
>>> using an old fashon Segovian style?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Il 11/10/2016 10:47, Jarosław Lipski ha scritto:
> On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
> 
> Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that are
> absent is this.
> 
> Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some without.
> Stephen Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov without.
> 
> RT
> 
 Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca’s
 performance was very successful. On the other hand one may ask
 questions like: why someone plays single strung archlute if there is
 little evidence for this type of instrument, why someone uses
 fingernails if the evidence speaks against using them, and why
 someone uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who’ll find any
 evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used simultaneously, then
 one may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much more
 guitar-like, and most of lute players started their musical education
 as guitarists. Another problem is the fear of not being heard by an
 audience especially when playing in a group .
 Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out that
 there are 2 ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone who has
 no experience in early music may feel a little bit confused.
 Best
 JL
 
 
>> On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
>> Name it as you like, for me 

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Jarosław Lipski]

…so now you’re talking ;) It’s all about mixing aesthetics - old and modern. 
Why then do you insist on calling it HIP? 
I played this concerto on several occasions on various historical double strung 
instruments and we never felt any problems with a proper balance between an 
ensemble and a lute. It depends on attitude of all instrumentalists in a group.
JL


> On 11 Oct 2016, at 12:06, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
> 
> there are plenty of reasons to use a single-strung archlute, the most obvious 
> of these are the volume, precision and speed that are required by the
> standards of 21st century HIP orchestral playing.
> RT
> 
> 
> On 10/11/2016 4:48 AM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
>> Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca’s 
>> performance was very successful. On the other hand one may ask questions 
>> like: why someone plays single strung archlute if there is little evidence 
>> for this type of instrument, why someone uses fingernails if the evidence 
>> speaks against using them, and why someone uses amplification (Noble prize 
>> for someone who’ll find any evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used 
>> simultaneously, then one may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it 
>> is much more guitar-like, and most of lute players started their musical 
>> education as guitarists. Another problem is the fear of not being heard by 
>> an audience especially when playing in a group .
>> Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out that there are 
>> 2 ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone who has no experience in 
>> early music may feel a little bit confused.
>> Best
>> JL
>>> On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that are absent is 
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some without. Stephen 
>>> Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov without.
>>> 
>>> RT
>>> 
>>> On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
 Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another version 
 of RV93 played by Luca here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog 
 
 The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for this 
 type of archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly noticed. Luca 
 uses fingernails, so this is another factor that influences the overall 
 sound (not only mics).
 JL
 
 
> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
> 
> on a good authority of RT.
> Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
> RT
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
>> Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
>> JL
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by Luc 
>>> Breton.
>>> RT
>>> 
>>> On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
 The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but 
 a liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, 
 Eric Bellocq and many others use it, however I would be far from 
 saying that this is a historical instrument - see here 
 http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
  It’s easier to play and 
 was specially created with guitarists in mind.
 Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having 
 said that, his performance from musical point of view was successful, 
 and I am glad to see people talking about music on this list :)
 Best
 
 
> On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and 
>> not. in D.
>> It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the 
>> violins.
> Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino 
> Armonico plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on 
> the Youtube video we’re talking about.  This is commonly done 
> to avoid detection by copyright bots.
> 
> Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same 
> concerto, sounding in D at A 415:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM
> 
> Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this 
> one.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list 

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Diego Cantalupi]

Let's say that his playing is quite irritating for me.

Inviato da iPhone

> Il giorno 11 ott 2016, alle ore 11:46, Roman Turovsky  
> ha scritto:
> 
> 
> There is really nothing Segovian about it.
> 
> A Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc.
> 
> RT
> 
> 
>> On 10/11/2016 5:09 AM, Diego Cantalupi wrote:
>> The question is different:
>> 
>> why one should play a baroque lute concerto on a lute-shaped guitar
>> using an old fashon Segovian style?
>> 
>> 
>> Il 11/10/2016 10:47, Jarosław Lipski ha scritto:
 On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
 
 Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that are
 absent is this.
 
 Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some without.
 Stephen Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov without.
 
 RT
 
>>> Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca’s
>>> performance was very successful. On the other hand one may ask
>>> questions like: why someone plays single strung archlute if there is
>>> little evidence for this type of instrument, why someone uses
>>> fingernails if the evidence speaks against using them, and why
>>> someone uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who’ll find any
>>> evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used simultaneously, then
>>> one may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much more
>>> guitar-like, and most of lute players started their musical education
>>> as guitarists. Another problem is the fear of not being heard by an
>>> audience especially when playing in a group .
>>> Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out that
>>> there are 2 ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone who has
>>> no experience in early music may feel a little bit confused.
>>> Best
>>> JL
>>> 
>>> 
> On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
> Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another
> version of RV93 played by Luca here
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog
> 
> The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for
> this type of archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly
> noticed. Luca uses fingernails, so this is another factor that
> influences the overall sound (not only mics).
> JL
> 
> 
>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> on a good authority of RT.
>> Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
>> RT
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
>>> Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
>>> JL
>>> 
>>> 
 On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky 
 wrote:
 
 It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute
 by Luc Breton.
 RT
 
> On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
> The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto
> attiorbato, but a liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca
> Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use it,
> however I would be far from saying that this is a historical
> instrument - see here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html
>  It’s easier to
> play and was specially created with guitarists in mind.
> Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque.
> Having said that, his performance from musical point of view
> was successful, and I am glad to see people talking about music
> on this list :)
> Best
> 
> 
>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C,
>>> and not. in D.
>>> It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange
>>> for the violins.
>> Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe
>> Giardino Armonico plays at A 415. I’m guessing the
>> pitch is lowered on the Youtube video we’re talking
>> about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by copyright
>> bots.
>> 
>> Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same
>> concerto, sounding in D at A 415:
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM
>> 
>> Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up
>> on this one.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> 

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Roman Turovsky]

there are plenty of reasons to use a single-strung archlute, the most
obvious of these are the volume, precision and speed that are required
by the
standards of 21st century HIP orchestral playing.
RT


On 10/11/2016 4:48 AM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca’s performance 
was very successful. On the other hand one may ask questions like: why someone 
plays single strung archlute if there is little evidence for this type of 
instrument, why someone uses fingernails if the evidence speaks against using 
them, and why someone uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who’ll find 
any evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used simultaneously, then one 
may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much more guitar-like, 
and most of lute players started their musical education as guitarists. Another 
problem is the fear of not being heard by an audience especially when playing 
in a group .
Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out that there are 2 
ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone who has no experience in 
early music may feel a little bit confused.
Best
JL

On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that are absent is 
this.

Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some without. Stephen 
Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov without.

RT

On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another version of RV93 
played by Luca here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog 

The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for this type of 
archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly noticed. Luca uses 
fingernails, so this is another factor that influences the overall sound (not 
only mics).
JL



On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

on a good authority of RT.
Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
RT


On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
JL



On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by Luc Breton.
RT

On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a liuto forte. 
Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use 
it, however I would be far from saying that this is a historical instrument - see 
here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
 It’s easier to play and was 
specially created with guitarists in mind.
Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said that, 
his performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am glad to see 
people talking about music on this list :)
Best



On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  wrote:



On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:

The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in D.
It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the violins.

Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino Armonico 
plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on the Youtube video 
we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by 
copyright bots.

Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, 
sounding in D at A 415:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM

Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

--

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Roman Turovsky]

There is really nothing Segovian about it.

A Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc.

RT


On 10/11/2016 5:09 AM, Diego Cantalupi wrote:

The question is different:

why one should play a baroque lute concerto on a lute-shaped guitar
using an old fashon Segovian style?


Il 11/10/2016 10:47, Jarosław Lipski ha scritto:

On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that are
absent is this.

Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some without.
Stephen Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov without.

RT


Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca’s
performance was very successful. On the other hand one may ask
questions like: why someone plays single strung archlute if there is
little evidence for this type of instrument, why someone uses
fingernails if the evidence speaks against using them, and why
someone uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who’ll find any
evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used simultaneously, then
one may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much more
guitar-like, and most of lute players started their musical education
as guitarists. Another problem is the fear of not being heard by an
audience especially when playing in a group .
Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out that
there are 2 ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone who has
no experience in early music may feel a little bit confused.
Best
JL



On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another
version of RV93 played by Luca here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog

The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for
this type of archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly
noticed. Luca uses fingernails, so this is another factor that
influences the overall sound (not only mics).
JL



On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky 
wrote:

on a good authority of RT.
Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
RT


On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
JL



On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky 
wrote:

It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute
by Luc Breton.
RT

On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto
attiorbato, but a liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca
Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use it,
however I would be far from saying that this is a historical
instrument - see here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html
 It’s easier to
play and was specially created with guitarists in mind.
Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque.
Having said that, his performance from musical point of view
was successful, and I am glad to see people talking about music
on this list :)
Best



On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner
 wrote:



On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi
 wrote:

The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C,
and not. in D.
It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange
for the violins.

Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe
Giardino Armonico plays at A 415. I’m guessing the
pitch is lowered on the Youtube video we’re talking
about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by copyright
bots.

Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same
concerto, sounding in D at A 415:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM

Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up
on this one.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

--

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Diego Cantalupi]

The question is different:

why one should play a baroque lute concerto on a lute-shaped guitar 
using an old fashon Segovian style?



Il 11/10/2016 10:47, Jarosław Lipski ha scritto:

On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that are absent is 
this.

Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some without. Stephen 
Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov without.

RT


Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca’s performance 
was very successful. On the other hand one may ask questions like: why someone 
plays single strung archlute if there is little evidence for this type of 
instrument, why someone uses fingernails if the evidence speaks against using 
them, and why someone uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who’ll find 
any evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used simultaneously, then one 
may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much more guitar-like, 
and most of lute players started their musical education as guitarists. Another 
problem is the fear of not being heard by an audience especially when playing 
in a group .
Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out that there are 2 
ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone who has no experience in 
early music may feel a little bit confused.
Best
JL



On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another version of RV93 
played by Luca here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog 

The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for this type of 
archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly noticed. Luca uses 
fingernails, so this is another factor that influences the overall sound (not 
only mics).
JL



On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

on a good authority of RT.
Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
RT


On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
JL



On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by Luc Breton.
RT

On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a liuto forte. 
Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use 
it, however I would be far from saying that this is a historical instrument - see 
here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
 It’s easier to play and was 
specially created with guitarists in mind.
Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said that, 
his performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am glad to see 
people talking about music on this list :)
Best



On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  wrote:



On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:

The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in D.
It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the violins.

Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino Armonico 
plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on the Youtube video 
we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by 
copyright bots.

Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, 
sounding in D at A 415:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM

Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

--

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Jarosław Lipski]

> On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
> 
> Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that are absent is 
> this.
> 
> Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some without. Stephen 
> Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov without.
> 
> RT
> 

Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca’s performance 
was very successful. On the other hand one may ask questions like: why someone 
plays single strung archlute if there is little evidence for this type of 
instrument, why someone uses fingernails if the evidence speaks against using 
them, and why someone uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who’ll find 
any evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used simultaneously, then one 
may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much more guitar-like, 
and most of lute players started their musical education as guitarists. Another 
problem is the fear of not being heard by an audience especially when playing 
in a group . 
Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out that there are 2 
ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone who has no experience in 
early music may feel a little bit confused.
Best
JL


> On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
>> Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another version 
>> of RV93 played by Luca here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog 
>> 
>> The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for this type 
>> of archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly noticed. Luca uses 
>> fingernails, so this is another factor that influences the overall sound 
>> (not only mics).
>> JL
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
>>> 
>>> on a good authority of RT.
>>> Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
>>> RT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
 Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
 JL
 
 
> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
> 
> It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by Luc 
> Breton.
> RT
> 
> On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
>> The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a 
>> liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric 
>> Bellocq and many others use it, however I would be far from saying that 
>> this is a historical instrument - see here 
>> http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
>>  It’s easier to play and 
>> was specially created with guitarists in mind.
>> Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said 
>> that, his performance from musical point of view was successful, and I 
>> am glad to see people talking about music on this list :)
>> Best
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:
 
 The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. 
 in D.
 It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the 
 violins.
>>> Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino 
>>> Armonico plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on 
>>> the Youtube video we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to 
>>> avoid detection by copyright bots.
>>> 
>>> Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, 
>>> sounding in D at A 415:
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM
>>> 
>>> Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this 
>>> one.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> --
 
>> 
>> --
> 

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Diego Cantalupi]

Here's my version:

https://youtu.be/dkPp4pDWGQI

I used an 'ordinary' archlute. In my opinion there are no problems about 
single or double strings, but mainly about good taste and esthetic.





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Roman Turovsky]

Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that are absent 
is this.


Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some without. 
Stephen Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov without.


RT

On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another version of RV93 
played by Luca here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog 

The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for this type of 
archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly noticed. Luca uses 
fingernails, so this is another factor that influences the overall sound (not 
only mics).
JL



On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

on a good authority of RT.
Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
RT


On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
JL



On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by Luc Breton.
RT

On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a liuto forte. 
Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use 
it, however I would be far from saying that this is a historical instrument - see 
here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
 It’s easier to play and was 
specially created with guitarists in mind.
Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said that, 
his performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am glad to see 
people talking about music on this list :)
Best



On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  wrote:



On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:

The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in D.
It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the violins.

Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino Armonico 
plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on the Youtube video 
we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by 
copyright bots.

Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, 
sounding in D at A 415:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM

Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--




--

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Robert Gallagher]

Greetings all.  I’m not even the last guy you would ask for an opinion on 
historical authenticity, but I have several times played this concerto on 
classical guitar, accompanied by both piano and string ensemble.  My read is 
that this is a musically very satisfying performance.  I really enjoyed the way 
that the lute was able to take the principal role as the solo instrument 
should.  It’s true that the single stringing on the instrument gives it a 
certain resonance that approaches the sonority of the guitar, but that poses 
absolutely no problem for me.  On the contrary, that “single-mindedness” 
really helps the lute stand out against a very busy background.  Truth be told, 
though I’m very interested in the historical integrity of an interpretation, 
that aspect is, for me, secondary to the musical satisfaction.  Sometimes the 
historically correct version is the most musically satisfying; other times it 
is not.  But I do feel that the intellectual exercise of authent!
 icity is a secondary concern to the aesthetic satisfaction of a performance, 
one that can make the listener vibrate.  All best, Robert

Robert Gallagher
Tour Béryl BAL 68-3
40, avenue d’Italie
75013 Paris FRANCE

+33 (0) 983 79 70 48

> On 10 Oct 2016, at 23:33, Jarosław Lipski  wrote:
> 
> Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another version of 
> RV93 played by Luca here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog 
>  
> The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for this type 
> of archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly noticed. Luca uses 
> fingernails, so this is another factor that influences the overall sound (not 
> only mics).
> JL
> 
> 
>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
>> 
>> on a good authority of RT.
>> Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
>> RT
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
>>> Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
>>> JL
>>> 
>>> 
 On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
 
 It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by Luc 
 Breton.
 RT
 
 On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
> The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a 
> liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric 
> Bellocq and many others use it, however I would be far from saying that 
> this is a historical instrument - see here 
> http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
>  It’s easier to play and 
> was specially created with guitarists in mind.
> Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said 
> that, his performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am 
> glad to see people talking about music on this list :)
> Best
> 
> 
>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. 
>>> in D.
>>> It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the 
>>> violins.
>> Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino 
>> Armonico plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on 
>> the Youtube video we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to 
>> avoid detection by copyright bots.
>> 
>> Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, 
>> sounding in D at A 415:
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM
>> 
>> Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this 
>> one.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> --
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --


--

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Jarosław Lipski]

Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another version of 
RV93 played by Luca here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB101T_sVog 
 
The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for this type of 
archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly noticed. Luca uses 
fingernails, so this is another factor that influences the overall sound (not 
only mics).
JL


> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
> 
> on a good authority of RT.
> Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
> RT
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
>> Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
>> JL
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by Luc 
>>> Breton.
>>> RT
>>> 
>>> On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
 The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a 
 liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric 
 Bellocq and many others use it, however I would be far from saying that 
 this is a historical instrument - see here 
 http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
  It’s easier to play and was 
 specially created with guitarists in mind.
 Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said 
 that, his performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am 
 glad to see people talking about music on this list :)
 Best
 
 
> On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:
>> 
>> The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in 
>> D.
>> It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the 
>> violins.
> Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino 
> Armonico plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on the 
> Youtube video we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to avoid 
> detection by copyright bots.
> 
> Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, 
> sounding in D at A 415:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM
> 
> Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
>> 
>> 
> 


--

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Matthew Daillie]

On 10/10/2016 22:28, Roman Turovsky wrote:

on a good authority of RT.
Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
RT


On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
JL



On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by 
Luc Breton.

RT

On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, 
but a liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano 
Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use it, however I would be 
far from saying that this is a historical instrument - see here 
http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
 It’s easier to play and 
was specially created with guitarists in mind.
Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said 
that, his performance from musical point of view was successful, 
and I am glad to see people talking about music on this list :)

Best


On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  
wrote:



On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  
wrote:


The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and 
not. in D.
It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for 
the violins.
Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino 
Armonico plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on 
the Youtube video we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to 
avoid detection by copyright bots.


Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, 
sounding in D at A 415:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM

Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--



Luc Breton used to make lutes for Julian Bream. Probably not a million 
miles away from a liuto forte. HIP?


For those of you who understand French (or enjoy the absurd translations 
of simultaneously generated sub-titles):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WpYuLmUYqk

Best,

Matthew

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Roman Turovsky]

on a good authority of RT.
Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
RT


On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
JL



On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by Luc Breton.
RT

On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a liuto forte. 
Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use 
it, however I would be far from saying that this is a historical instrument - see 
here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
 It’s easier to play and was specially 
created with guitarists in mind.
Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said that, his 
performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am glad to see 
people talking about music on this list :)
Best



On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  wrote:



On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:

The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in D.
It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the violins.

Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino Armonico 
plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on the Youtube video 
we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by copyright 
bots.

Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, sounding in 
D at A 415:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM

Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[G. C.]

   I must say, the sound was more guitar than lute like
   G.

   On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:29 PM, fournierbru <[1]fournier...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

Hello all
I would like your opinions on this interpretation of the Vivaldu
 lute
concerto I found on YouTube.
[2]https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
BRUNO
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:fournier...@gmail.com
   2. https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Jarosław Lipski]

Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
JL


> On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
> 
> It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by Luc Breton.
> RT
> 
> On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
>> The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a 
>> liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric 
>> Bellocq and many others use it, however I would be far from saying that this 
>> is a historical instrument - see here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
>>  It’s easier to play and was 
>> specially created with guitarists in mind.
>> Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said that, 
>> his performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am glad to 
>> see people talking about music on this list :)
>> Best
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:
 
 The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in D.
 It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the violins.
>>> 
>>> Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino Armonico 
>>> plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on the Youtube video 
>>> we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by 
>>> copyright bots.
>>> 
>>> Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, sounding 
>>> in D at A 415:
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM
>>> 
>>> Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>> --
> 

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Roman Turovsky]

It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute by Luc 
Breton.

RT

On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a liuto forte. 
Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use 
it, however I would be far from saying that this is a historical instrument - see 
here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
 It’s easier to play and was specially 
created with guitarists in mind.
Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said that, his 
performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am glad to see 
people talking about music on this list :)
Best



On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  wrote:



On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:

The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in D.
It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the violins.


Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino Armonico 
plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on the Youtube video 
we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by copyright 
bots.

Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, sounding in 
D at A 415:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM

Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Richard Brook]

Great I thought. Very lute-like, and I’ve heard all the others.

Dick Brook

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Matthew Daillie  wrote:
> 
> On 10/10/2016 15:29, fournierbru wrote:
>> Hello all
>> 
>>I would like your opinions on this interpretation of the Vivaldu lute
>>concerto I found on YouTube.
>> 
>>https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
>> 
>>BRUNO
> 
> Not my cup of tea. He's using what looks like a single strung 13-course liuto 
> forte, very guitar like and not particularly enticing.
> 
> Paul O'Dette and Ronn McFarlane have both recorded this work. I suspect their 
> interpretations are rather more subtle and historically informed.
> 
> Best
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Richard Brook]

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Matthew Daillie  wrote:
> 
> On 10/10/2016 15:29, fournierbru wrote:
>> Hello all
>> 
>>I would like your opinions on this interpretation of the Vivaldu lute
>>concerto I found on YouTube.
>> 
>>https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
>> 
>>BRUNO
> 
> Not my cup of tea. He's using what looks like a single strung 13-course liuto 
> forte, very guitar like and not particularly enticing.
> 
> Paul O'Dette and Ronn McFarlane have both recorded this work. I suspect their 
> interpretations are rather more subtle and historically informed.
> 
> Best
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Sean Smith]

But, … doubled gut frets!

I was struck by how classical guitar-like the fretboard was. Then I kept 
thinking the extension would probably have to be longer on a HIP instrument. 
Now I know. Thanks. Hull and spars notwithstanding, am I right in imagining the 
rigging isn’t very different from a harp guitar?

Sean


On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:06 AM, Jarosław Lipski  wrote:

> The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a 
> liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric 
> Bellocq and many others use it, however I would be far from saying that this 
> is a historical instrument - see here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
>  It’s easier to play and was specially 
> created with guitarists in mind.
> Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said that, his 
> performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am glad to see 
> people talking about music on this list :)
> Best
> 




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Jarosław Lipski]

The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a liuto 
forte. Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and 
many others use it, however I would be far from saying that this is a 
historical instrument - see here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
 It’s easier to play and was specially 
created with guitarists in mind.
Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said that, his 
performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am glad to see 
people talking about music on this list :)
Best


> On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:
>> 
>> The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in D.
>> It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the violins.
> 
> 
> Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino Armonico 
> plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on the Youtube video 
> we’re talking about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by copyright 
> bots.
> 
> Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, sounding 
> in D at A 415:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM
> 
> Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Bernd Haegemann]

Some years ago I was so lucky as to listen to Luca Pianca on this 
instrument accompanying Chr. Prégardien with Schumann songs.

I can assure you, that was HIP!






To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Paolo Busato]

   Am I wrong or in the first movement, sixth bar, second beat "piano",
   they play on the downbeat instead of playing on the upbeat (as also did
   J. Bream on an old recording)?

   Paolo Busato lute maker
   [1]www.busatolutes.com

   ___
   __
   Il contenuto di questa e-mail e dei file allegati è RISERVATO e da
   considerarsi utilizzabile solamente dalla persona o dall'ente cui è
   indirizzato. Se avete ricevuto questa e-mail per errore, siete pregati
   di
   eliminarla e di contattare il mittente (Legge italiana 196/2003).  The
   content of this e-mail and any files is CONFIDENTIAL and intended
   solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is
   addressed.
If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email
   and any attachments and contact the sender. (Italian Law 196/2003)
   ___
   __

   Il 10/10/2016 17:44, Edward Martin ha scritto:

   I have performed this concerto in the past, a few times.   Firstly, I
   observed his fingerings, and it is apparent that he is playing in C -
   major.   The composition is in D - major, so I think the ensemble
   recorded it a step down from how it was actually composed.
   Actually those fingerings are easier in C major than in D major.   I
   once performed it with an ensemble in D major, but used an alto lute in
   "a", so it had the same relative tuning as he used.

   On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ron Andrico
   [2]<[1]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:

The only bit of opinion in my previous message was that I thought
 Luca
Pianca's performance was musical.   The rest is supported by
 factual
information.
  
 __
From: Matthew Daillie [3]<[2]dail...@club-internet.fr>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 3:11 PM
To: Ron Andrico
Cc: fournierbru; [[4]3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
    Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

  I'm not in the least bit surprised that our opinions and tastes
   differ
  Ron.
  Matthew
  > On Oct 10, 2016, at 16:51, Ron Andrico [5]<[4]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:
  >
  >Hmm...Historically-informed must have taken on a different
   meaning
  >while I wasn't paying attention.   I should think Luca Pianca
   and
  his
  >Italian compatriots might have a bit more of a secure
   connection
  with
  >Vivaldi's music than the American's you name.   O'Dette
   recorded
  this
  >music with a silly little chirpy mandolino playing with a
   rather
  stiff
  >sounding band.   McFarlane's interpretation is vibrant and
   lovely
  but
  >what we hear in this video with Luca Pianca has everything to
   do
  with a
  >microphone placement that allows the lute to be heard above the
  rest of
  >the band, as is certainly the case in the other recordings
  mentioned.
  >As far as I can tell, single stringing was sometimes used by
   the
  old
  >ones but Luca Pianca's hand position is definitely
  >historically-accurate for Vivaldi's era.   The under thumb
   approach
  >ceased to exist with the advent of many additional basses,
   circa
  1600,
  >and those who use that hand position in baroque music today are
  >not using an historically-informed approach.   So unless
  >historically-informed now has something to do with microphone
  >placement, I think the video example is compelling and musical.
  >
  >RA
  >
  __
  >
  >From: [[6]5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [7]<[6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
  behalf
  >of Matthew Daillie [8]<[7]dail...@club-internet.fr>
  >    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 1:54 PM
  >To: fournierbru; [[9]8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
  >
  >>On 10/10/2016 15:29, fournierbru wrote:
  >> Hello all
  >>
  >> I would like your opinions on this interpretation of the
   Vivaldu
  >lute
  >> concerto I found on YouTube.
  >>
  >> [1][9][10]https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
  >[2][maxresdefault.jpg]
  >[3]Vivaldi - Lute Concerto in D major, RV 93 - Il Giardino
   Armonico
  >[10]youtu.be
  >Antonio Vivaldi Lute Concerto in D major, RV 93 1 Allegro 2
   Largo 3
  >Allegro Luca Pianca, lute Il Giardino Armonico
  >>
  >> BRUNO
  >Not my cup o

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[John Mardinly]

   Excellent "Thumb Out" playing.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   But don't call the lab….I won't be there!

   On Oct 10, 2016, at 6:29 AM, fournierbru <[3]fournier...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 Hello all
 I would like your opinions on this interpretation of the Vivaldu lute
 concerto I found on YouTube.
 [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_u9m3
   ghjN0RE=CwIBAg=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvn
   WTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=X7jBhpsSCZTNDftdYvaK4xC4t8-hv95
   RQH564yADdwc=eyzmvoYmFQqIEr4RSSZboTqF8wgThEdm_kcTWi0F1c4=
 BRUNO
 Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=CwIBAg=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Eji
   z41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=X7j
   BhpsSCZTNDftdYvaK4xC4t8-hv95RQH564yADdwc=iucsHDMF4PhmB-2FGtxjS7pz9yIT
   bC9RovK7VGftOOw=

References

   1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   2. tel:408-921-3253
   3. mailto:fournier...@gmail.com
   4. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_u9m3ghjN0RE=CwIBAg=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=X7jBhpsSCZTNDftdYvaK4xC4t8-hv95RQH564yADdwc=eyzmvoYmFQqIEr4RSSZboTqF8wgThEdm_kcTWi0F1c4=
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=CwIBAg=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=X7jBhpsSCZTNDftdYvaK4xC4t8-hv95RQH564yADdwc=iucsHDMF4PhmB-2FGtxjS7pz9yITbC9RovK7VGftOOw=

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Charles Mokotoff]

   I like it! :)

   On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 12:23 PM, howard posner
   <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:

 > On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi <[2]tio...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >
 > The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and
 not. in D.
 > It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the
 violins.
 Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.   I believe Giardino
 Armonico plays at A 415.   I'm guessing the pitch is lowered on the
 Youtube video we're talking about.   This is commonly done to avoid
 detection by copyright bots.
 Here's a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto,
 sounding in D at A 415:
 [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM
 Of course, it's possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   2. mailto:tio...@gmail.com
   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[howard posner]

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 7:51 AM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
> As far as I can tell, single stringing was sometimes used by the old
>   ones

I’ve always assumed that someone in the 1600’s and 1700’s must have 
single-strung their lutes for the same reasons some modern players do, but I 
was unaware of any actual evidence for the practice.  Do you know of any?



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[howard posner]

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi  wrote:
> 
> The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in D.
> It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the violins.


Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe Giardino Armonico 
plays at A 415.  I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on the Youtube video we’re 
talking about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by copyright bots.

Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, sounding in D 
at A 415:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM

Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Edward Martin]

   I have performed this concerto in the past, a few times.   Firstly, I
   observed his fingerings, and it is apparent that he is playing in C -
   major.   The composition is in D - major, so I think the ensemble
   recorded it a step down from how it was actually composed.
   Actually those fingerings are easier in C major than in D major.   I
   once performed it with an ensemble in D major, but used an alto lute in
   "a", so it had the same relative tuning as he used.

   On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ron Andrico
   <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:

The only bit of opinion in my previous message was that I thought
 Luca
Pianca's performance was musical.   The rest is supported by
 factual
information.
  
 __
From: Matthew Daillie <[2]dail...@club-internet.fr>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 3:11 PM
To: Ron Andrico
Cc: fournierbru; [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
    Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

  I'm not in the least bit surprised that our opinions and tastes
   differ
  Ron.
  Matthew
  > On Oct 10, 2016, at 16:51, Ron Andrico <[4]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:
  >
  >Hmm...Historically-informed must have taken on a different
   meaning
  >while I wasn't paying attention.   I should think Luca Pianca
   and
  his
  >Italian compatriots might have a bit more of a secure
   connection
  with
  >Vivaldi's music than the American's you name.   O'Dette
   recorded
  this
  >music with a silly little chirpy mandolino playing with a
   rather
  stiff
  >sounding band.   McFarlane's interpretation is vibrant and
   lovely
  but
  >what we hear in this video with Luca Pianca has everything to
   do
  with a
  >microphone placement that allows the lute to be heard above the
  rest of
  >the band, as is certainly the case in the other recordings
  mentioned.
  >As far as I can tell, single stringing was sometimes used by
   the
  old
  >ones but Luca Pianca's hand position is definitely
  >historically-accurate for Vivaldi's era.   The under thumb
   approach
  >ceased to exist with the advent of many additional basses,
   circa
  1600,
  >and those who use that hand position in baroque music today are
  >not using an historically-informed approach.   So unless
  >historically-informed now has something to do with microphone
  >placement, I think the video example is compelling and musical.
  >
  >RA
  >
  __
  >
  >From: [5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   <[6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
  behalf
  >of Matthew Daillie <[7]dail...@club-internet.fr>
  >    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 1:54 PM
  >To: fournierbru; [8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
  >
  >>On 10/10/2016 15:29, fournierbru wrote:
  >> Hello all
  >>
  >> I would like your opinions on this interpretation of the
   Vivaldu
  >lute
  >> concerto I found on YouTube.
  >>
  >> [1][9]https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
  >[2][maxresdefault.jpg]
  >[3]Vivaldi - Lute Concerto in D major, RV 93 - Il Giardino
   Armonico
  >[10]youtu.be
  >Antonio Vivaldi Lute Concerto in D major, RV 93 1 Allegro 2
   Largo 3
  >Allegro Luca Pianca, lute Il Giardino Armonico
  >>
  >> BRUNO
  >Not my cup of tea. He's using what looks like a single strung
  13-course
  >liuto forte, very guitar like and not particularly enticing.
  >Paul O'Dette and Ronn McFarlane have both recorded this work. I
  suspect
  >their interpretations are rather more subtle and historically
  informed.
  >Best
  >Matthew
  >To get on or off this list see list information at
  >[4][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  >[5]Frequently Asked Technical Questions about the lute mail
   list

>[1][12]www.cs.dartmouth.edu
[2]Department of Computer Science
[13]www.cs.dartmouth.edu
Assistant Professor in Machine Learning. We are inviting
 applications
for a tenure-track faculty position at the level of assistant
 professor
in the area of machine ...
>Frequently Asked Technical Questions about the lute mail
 list.
getting
>on and off the list; How do I get on the lute

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Matthew Daillie]

On 10/10/2016 17:14, Ron Andrico wrote:
The only bit of opinion in my previous message was that I thought Luca 
Pianca's performance was musical.  The rest is supported by factual 
information.


I'll let you have the last word



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Diego Cantalupi]

The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in D.
It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the violins.


Inviato da iPad

> Il giorno 10 ott 2016, alle ore 17:14, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> ha 
> scritto:
> 
>   The only bit of opinion in my previous message was that I thought Luca
>   Pianca's performance was musical.  The rest is supported by factual
>   information.
> __
> 
>   From: Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr>
>   Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 3:11 PM
>   To: Ron Andrico
>   Cc: fournierbru; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
> 
>   I'm not in the least bit surprised that our opinions and tastes differ
>   Ron.
>   Matthew
>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 16:51, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  Hmm...Historically-informed must have taken on a different meaning
>>  while I wasn't paying attention.  I should think Luca Pianca and
>   his
>>  Italian compatriots might have a bit more of a secure connection
>   with
>>  Vivaldi's music than the American's you name.  O'Dette recorded
>   this
>>  music with a silly little chirpy mandolino playing with a rather
>   stiff
>>  sounding band.  McFarlane's interpretation is vibrant and lovely
>   but
>>  what we hear in this video with Luca Pianca has everything to do
>   with a
>>  microphone placement that allows the lute to be heard above the
>   rest of
>>  the band, as is certainly the case in the other recordings
>   mentioned.
>>  As far as I can tell, single stringing was sometimes used by the
>   old
>>  ones but Luca Pianca's hand position is definitely
>>  historically-accurate for Vivaldi's era.  The under thumb approach
>>  ceased to exist with the advent of many additional basses, circa
>   1600,
>>  and those who use that hand position in baroque music today are
>>  not using an historically-informed approach.  So unless
>>  historically-informed now has something to do with microphone
>>  placement, I think the video example is compelling and musical.
>> 
>>  RA
>   __
>> 
>>  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
>   behalf
>>  of Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr>
>>  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 1:54 PM
>>  To: fournierbru; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
>> 
>>>  On 10/10/2016 15:29, fournierbru wrote:
>>> Hello all
>>> 
>>>   I would like your opinions on this interpretation of the Vivaldu
>>  lute
>>>   concerto I found on YouTube.
>>> 
>>>   [1]https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
>>  [2][maxresdefault.jpg]
>>  [3]Vivaldi - Lute Concerto in D major, RV 93 - Il Giardino Armonico
>>  youtu.be
>>  Antonio Vivaldi Lute Concerto in D major, RV 93 1 Allegro 2 Largo 3
>>  Allegro Luca Pianca, lute Il Giardino Armonico
>>> 
>>>   BRUNO
>>  Not my cup of tea. He's using what looks like a single strung
>   13-course
>>  liuto forte, very guitar like and not particularly enticing.
>>  Paul O'Dette and Ronn McFarlane have both recorded this work. I
>   suspect
>>  their interpretations are rather more subtle and historically
>   informed.
>>  Best
>>  Matthew
>>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>>  [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>  [5]Frequently Asked Technical Questions about the lute mail list
>>  [1]www.cs.dartmouth.edu
>   [2]Department of Computer Science
>   www.cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Assistant Professor in Machine Learning. We are inviting applications
>   for a tenure-track faculty position at the level of assistant professor
>   in the area of machine ...
>>  Frequently Asked Technical Questions about the lute mail list.
>   getting
>>  on and off the list; How do I get on the lute mail list? How do I
>   get
>>  off the lute mail list?
>> 
>>  --
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>  1. [3]https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
>   [4][maxresdefault.jpg]
>   [5]Vivaldi - Lute Concerto in D major, RV 93 - Il Giardino Armonico
>   youtu.be
>   Antonio Vivaldi Lute Concerto in D major, RV 93 1 Allegro 2 Largo 3
>   Allegro Luca Pianca, lute Il Giardino Armonico
>>  2. [6]https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
>   [7]YouTube
>   youtu.be
>   and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
>>  3. [8]https://youtu.be/u9m3ghj

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Matthew Daillie]

I'm not in the least bit surprised that our opinions and tastes differ Ron.
Matthew



> On Oct 10, 2016, at 16:51, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   Hmm...Historically-informed must have taken on a different meaning
>   while I wasn't paying attention.  I should think Luca Pianca and his
>   Italian compatriots might have a bit more of a secure connection with
>   Vivaldi's music than the American's you name.  O'Dette recorded this
>   music with a silly little chirpy mandolino playing with a rather stiff
>   sounding band.  McFarlane's interpretation is vibrant and lovely but
>   what we hear in this video with Luca Pianca has everything to do with a
>   microphone placement that allows the lute to be heard above the rest of
>   the band, as is certainly the case in the other recordings mentioned.
>   As far as I can tell, single stringing was sometimes used by the old
>   ones but Luca Pianca's hand position is definitely
>   historically-accurate for Vivaldi's era.  The under thumb approach
>   ceased to exist with the advent of many additional basses, circa 1600,
>   and those who use that hand position in baroque music today are
>   not using an historically-informed approach.  So unless
>   historically-informed now has something to do with microphone
>   placement, I think the video example is compelling and musical.
> 
>   RA
> __
> 
>   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
>   of Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr>
>   Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 1:54 PM
>   To: fournierbru; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
> 
>>   On 10/10/2016 15:29, fournierbru wrote:
>> Hello all
>> 
>>I would like your opinions on this interpretation of the Vivaldu
>   lute
>>concerto I found on YouTube.
>> 
>>[1]https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
>   [2][maxresdefault.jpg]
>   [3]Vivaldi - Lute Concerto in D major, RV 93 - Il Giardino Armonico
>   youtu.be
>   Antonio Vivaldi Lute Concerto in D major, RV 93 1 Allegro 2 Largo 3
>   Allegro Luca Pianca, lute Il Giardino Armonico
>> 
>>BRUNO
>   Not my cup of tea. He's using what looks like a single strung 13-course
>   liuto forte, very guitar like and not particularly enticing.
>   Paul O'Dette and Ronn McFarlane have both recorded this work. I suspect
>   their interpretations are rather more subtle and historically informed.
>   Best
>   Matthew
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>   [5]Frequently Asked Technical Questions about the lute mail list
>   www.cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Frequently Asked Technical Questions about the lute mail list. getting
>   on and off the list; How do I get on the lute mail list? How do I get
>   off the lute mail list?
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
>   2. https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
>   3. https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE
>   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Matthew Daillie]

On 10/10/2016 15:29, fournierbru wrote:

Hello all

I would like your opinions on this interpretation of the Vivaldu lute
concerto I found on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/u9m3ghjN0RE

BRUNO


Not my cup of tea. He's using what looks like a single strung 13-course 
liuto forte, very guitar like and not particularly enticing.


Paul O'Dette and Ronn McFarlane have both recorded this work. I suspect 
their interpretations are rather more subtle and historically informed.


Best

Matthew



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html