Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
I think it's a 5 year sentence in the UK. Either that or they're considering changing it to 5. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
on 5/7/08 17:56, Jeff Zedic at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, like most French peoples, they're pretty left...one of the things I like about them! They are left on most social policy except for language and immigration. Separatism (and in its milder form, what is generally called Quebec nationalism, which is more concerned with preserving French language and culture but stops short of full succession) will always be around in Quebec. It merely ebbs and flows in waves that many say come in 20-year cycles. Right now I would say its on the rise again after about 10 years of calm. The peak of the last wave happened to intersect the international revulsion at what went on in the former Yugoslavia -- key there being that the separatist rhetoric was uncomfortably similar to in particular the ravings of the Serb hardliners. Wonderful how a spot of nationalist-inspired atrocity across the big pond can calm down the ranting close to home. However even though lately I've heard more, I don't expect it will get legs and go anywhere. This whole question is hard for Americans to appreciate because my country and 'yours' (I being a dual citizen as it happens) were formed in very different ways. Canada was sewn together from a patchwork of nation-states (provinces), some of which have bugger-all in common. You could merge Maine with New Brunswick and Nova Scotia tomorrow and hardly anyone would notice. Same for Alberta and North Dakota. Maybe similar geography breeds similar people? The arguing within our confederation has really been ongoing since day one, but you only hear about Quebec because it's the 'bleeder' where international news is concerned. For example, right now Newfoundland (flexing its new muscles from offshore oil revenues) is far more hostile to the central government (and the prime minister in particular) than Quebec. Cheers Mac ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Our countries were not formed so differently. The United States was originally made from 13 very different colonies, each with its own currency, governments goals. And anyone who believes that these colonies were pulled together peacefully needs to study their history. Also, Canada was one battle short of being the 14th colony! Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve MacSween Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green on 5/7/08 17:56, Jeff Zedic at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, like most French peoples, they're pretty left...one of the things I like about them! They are left on most social policy except for language and immigration. Separatism (and in its milder form, what is generally called Quebec nationalism, which is more concerned with preserving French language and culture but stops short of full succession) will always be around in Quebec. It merely ebbs and flows in waves that many say come in 20-year cycles. Right now I would say its on the rise again after about 10 years of calm. The peak of the last wave happened to intersect the international revulsion at what went on in the former Yugoslavia -- key there being that the separatist rhetoric was uncomfortably similar to in particular the ravings of the Serb hardliners. Wonderful how a spot of nationalist-inspired atrocity across the big pond can calm down the ranting close to home. However even though lately I've heard more, I don't expect it will get legs and go anywhere. This whole question is hard for Americans to appreciate because my country and 'yours' (I being a dual citizen as it happens) were formed in very different ways. Canada was sewn together from a patchwork of nation-states (provinces), some of which have bugger-all in common. You could merge Maine with New Brunswick and Nova Scotia tomorrow and hardly anyone would notice. Same for Alberta and North Dakota. Maybe similar geography breeds similar people? The arguing within our confederation has really been ongoing since day one, but you only hear about Quebec because it's the 'bleeder' where international news is concerned. For example, right now Newfoundland (flexing its new muscles from offshore oil revenues) is far more hostile to the central government (and the prime minister in particular) than Quebec. Cheers Mac ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1419 - Release Date: 5/7/2008 7:46 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1419 - Release Date: 5/7/2008 7:46 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
There's no way that would ever happen. It would be a bloodbath and you would be defeated just like in 1812! hehe You ever want to see Canadians get really riled up, then tell them that the US will invade. We go from meek and mild to menacing in a picosecond! I believe the US tried three times to invade and were beaten back each time, luckily for us. Mind you, we had a coalition of Brits, Canucks and natives and the advantage of height. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Jeff Zedic wrote: I believe the US tried three times to invade and were beaten back each time, luckily for us. Mind you, we had a coalition of Brits, Canucks and natives and the advantage of height. And back then, Brits and Canucks had guns. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Actually, didn't Bowling for Columbine say that Canada had more guns per capita, or a similar amount, than the US? The Brits have guns too. Unfortunately their standard issue wep in Afghanistan/Iraq tends to jam in the heat and doesn't like dust...go figure. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
The citizens of UK were disarmed a few years ago - and the crime rate went up. but we don;t want to start one of *those* threads ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green Actually, didn't Bowling for Columbine say that Canada had more guns per capita, or a similar amount, than the US? The Brits have guns too. Unfortunately their standard issue wep in Afghanistan/Iraq tends to jam in the heat and doesn't like dust...go figure. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Long guns, not handguns, IIRC, however never a good idea to accept The Big One's statistical assertions at face value. Mac on 5/8/08 8:25, Jeff Zedic at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, didn't Bowling for Columbine say that Canada had more guns per capita, or a similar amount, than the US? The Brits have guns too. Unfortunately their standard issue wep in Afghanistan/Iraq tends to jam in the heat and doesn't like dust...go figure. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
The Brits never had a big gun culture, obviously the baddies had shooters but didn't really use em. I don't know where you got the info that the crime rate went up because of disarming but the reason the crime rate is going up is due to drugs, with Carribean and, more so now, Eastern European crime gangs fighting over turf. Obviously the stakes are getting higher and thus more illegal hand guns are on the street. Hendrik LarryT wrote: The citizens of UK were disarmed a few years ago - and the crime rate went up. but we don;t want to start one of *those* threads ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
The gun laws are extremely effective then! (That is sarcasm if you don't notice) I don't think he stated the cause of crime increase was the new gun laws, he pointed out that crime increased after new gun laws were implemented, the point of which were apparently were to decrease (gun-related) crime. Point is, criminals do not respect laws, including those related to guns. Duh. Hence, laws restricting gun ownership have little or no restrictive effect on criminals, but do restrict law-abiding citizens, and do little to diminish crime. In fact, gun restriction laws do correlate very strongly with an increase in crime (and concealed-carry laws correlate very strongly with a decrease in crime, at least in the US). The reason is very simple -- criminals do not like to confront a possibly-armed law-abiding citizen, because that has a high negative incentive to committing a crime, and when law-abiding citizens are allowed to protect themselves with guns, they do, to the detriment of the criminals (who are stupid in a lot of ways, but many of them do have a rudimentary survival instinct despite their chosen profession). I believe that the criminals in the UK are illegally importing guns from outside the country, once again circumventing the restrictive gun laws that law-abiding citizens must follow, and using them in the increasing crimes in that country. Clearly the answer is to pass more restrictive gun laws! Not to pick a fight, those are just the facts, readily available if you have an open mind to review them. --R Hendrik Fay wrote: The Brits never had a big gun culture, obviously the baddies had shooters but didn't really use em. I don't know where you got the info that the crime rate went up because of disarming but the reason the crime rate is going up is due to drugs, with Carribean and, more so now, Eastern European crime gangs fighting over turf. Obviously the stakes are getting higher and thus more illegal hand guns are on the street. Hendrik LarryT wrote: The citizens of UK were disarmed a few years ago - and the crime rate went up. but we don;t want to start one of *those* threads ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Obviously criminals aren't gonna worry about gun laws unless those gun laws are tough tough, like 10 years in the big house for carrying an illegal weapon. At the moment the big thing here is bikers and their hangers on shooting each other for control of the drug trade. Government is bumbling and stumbling coming up with all sorts of stupid laws that will be hard to enforce, rather than just toughening up existing laws. When someone is looking at a 30 year stretch for discharging a firearm in a public place they may stop and think about their future, rather than the current wrist slap and counseling because of their childhood and the influence of others. Hendrik Rich Thomas wrote: The gun laws are extremely effective then! (That is sarcasm if you don't notice) I don't think he stated the cause of crime increase was the new gun laws, he pointed out that crime increased after new gun laws were implemented, the point of which were apparently were to decrease (gun-related) crime. Point is, criminals do not respect laws, including those related to guns. Duh. Hence, laws restricting gun ownership have little or no restrictive effect on criminals, but do restrict law-abiding citizens, and do little to diminish crime. In fact, gun restriction laws do correlate very strongly with an increase in crime (and concealed-carry laws correlate very strongly with a decrease in crime, at least in the US). The reason is very simple -- criminals do not like to confront a possibly-armed law-abiding citizen, because that has a high negative incentive to committing a crime, and when law-abiding citizens are allowed to protect themselves with guns, they do, to the detriment of the criminals (who are stupid in a lot of ways, but many of them do have a rudimentary survival instinct despite their chosen profession). I believe that the criminals in the UK are illegally importing guns from outside the country, once again circumventing the restrictive gun laws that law-abiding citizens must follow, and using them in the increasing crimes in that country. Clearly the answer is to pass more restrictive gun laws! Not to pick a fight, those are just the facts, readily available if you have an open mind to review them. --R Hendrik Fay wrote: The Brits never had a big gun culture, obviously the baddies had shooters but didn't really use em. I don't know where you got the info that the crime rate went up because of disarming but the reason the crime rate is going up is due to drugs, with Carribean and, more so now, Eastern European crime gangs fighting over turf. Obviously the stakes are getting higher and thus more illegal hand guns are on the street. Hendrik LarryT wrote: The citizens of UK were disarmed a few years ago - and the crime rate went up. but we don;t want to start one of *those* threads ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Danny is pretty fed up with the idiots running the schools here as well. Due to labor unions a large ($12.6 million) grant was rescinded that would have paid for extra science and math teaching. The teacher union thought it smacked of merit pay, since the teachers who produced students able to pass the math and science standardized tests would be paid for the effort. We also have a coloreds only child welfare agency that just got shut down. It was instituted to deal with the peculiar problems faced by colored children in the system. It was deemed racist and not egalitarian. Seattle is a very egalitarian society, and all must suffer and produce at the lowest common denominator. clay On 4 May 2008, at 19:56, Craig McCluskey wrote: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/ 2004391337_danny04.html Danny Westneat Seattle Times staff columnist I thought I was going green. Instead, I was committing a crime against humanity. Recently our family car was totaled in a wreck (no one was hurt). So I figured: Here's a chance to green up. To leave gas guzzling behind. To go off the oil grid.I'm talking biodiesel. Instead of running your car on noxious petroleum, you cruise about town powered by veggie oil ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Just watched a Modern Marvels show on corn. The ethanol corn is being genetically manipulated to produce more starch to better procure more energy than is needed to make the stuff. Might be ok for food crops, but is hybridized to be a fuel crop. Just because it is corn and makes ethanol, does not mean it is all used up. All the left over mush is very rich in protein and oils. This distillers waste is prime animal feed, so there is extended use of the product into nice little steaks, chicken strips and bacon. It may not be feeding all the poor little black people in africa, but it is fully used. And the food price thing is a hoax. If there were such a huge need for corn here, we could just reduce the excess corn we have going to all the poor folks in africa and elsewhere. Bound to be whole ships full of that stuff could be better used here to make corn flakes and high fructose corn syrup. Which is not really good for you. clay On 4 May 2008, at 20:07, Tom Hargrave wrote: Yep, the truth is coming out. Bio Diesel is causing a serious third world food shortage. Wait till they figure out the real impact that Ethanol production has on the world. We are already experiencing record food inflation, partly due to higher oil prices but more directly related to the fact that so much corn is going to Ethanol! Then there's the long term impact of compact florescent bulbs. Every one contains a bit of mercury. I don't know about you but I throw mine out when they burn out and I bet that 99% of the county does the same. So, do mercury tainted landfills appeal to you? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:mercedes- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig McCluskey Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:56 PM To: mercedes Subject: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/ 2004391337_danny04.html Danny Westneat Seattle Times staff columnist I thought I was going green. Instead, I was committing a crime against humanity. Recently our family car was totaled in a wreck (no one was hurt). So I figured: Here's a chance to green up. To leave gas guzzling behind. To go off the oil grid.I'm talking biodiesel. Instead of running your car on noxious petroleum, you cruise about town powered by veggie oil ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
The big issue is not local forests or grasslands being denuded, but that we are going into the amazon and asian rain forests and planting soy and palm oil crops. Well, not we, but the locals in those areas are using their land in a manner best suited to increasing their economies. This then is shipped to america where it is made into fuel or pig feed. The quote that the palm oil produced by Imperium is being sent to Europe is fallacious. The plant in Grays Harbor is actually producing 100 million gallons of B100 for use by consumers within 500 miles. Unless there are a few grey ships headed to europe that are not nuke powered, this is the only way that B100 is headed to the old world. clay On 5 May 2008, at 04:47, Mitch Haley wrote: I think they are stretching things quite a bit: The reason is that it takes land to grow fuel. That inevitably leads to the destruction of forests and grasslands, the studies say. When was the last time you heard of somebody clear-cutting land so they could grow soybeans and corn? Do these people have any idea how much cropland the government is currently paying farmers to not grow crops on? Or is that what they mean by grasslands? 60 acres of those grasslands were bought by my family 30 years ago as croplands. Since then, I've seen it used as cropland, hayfields, pasture, and now wild grasses. The local wildlife (especially deer, pheasant, and turkey) liked it best when it was planted in corn. These days they sleep in the grass and do a lot of their eating in the neighbors' corn. I'm not sure how large the deer herd would be without hunting pressure. We had 30 cattle and 25-30 deer 15 years ago, now we have 15-20 deer. Clearly, land that can support 30 or more cattle could easily support 100 deer, but that sort of deer population (1000 deer per square mile) would quickly be deemed a nuisance. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
You are right Lee. Around my neighborhood, we have small lots, so any spare space will soon be planted with food crops to off set the huge increase in grocery bills. Local and in season crops. WE do have some issue with the chickens roaming the streets doing weeding of our farms. clay On 5 May 2008, at 05:20, Lee Einer wrote: Mitch Haley wrote: When was the last time you heard of somebody clear-cutting land so they could grow soybeans and corn? Do these people have any idea how much cropland the government is currently paying farmers to not grow crops on? Or is that what they mean by grasslands? Grasslands? I got yer grasslands, right here! There are few things more foolish or wasteful than the grass lawn. Because a grass lawn is a monoculture with the majority of ecological niches vacant, it requires a great deal of human effort (and petrochemicals) to maintain. And for what? Every week, the suburbanoids come forth with their riding mowers to harvest their grass lawn crop, mowing it down. But they have no use for what they harvest, it goes into (petrochemical based) garbage bags and is sent off to the landfill. An outside observer would have to conclude that we are all daft. If a whole suburban neighborhood rose up against the tyranny of the lawn, and planted their yards and medians with a diverse and full ecosystem with fruit trees and bushes, perennial veggies, grapevines, and edible groundcovers, how much of their food needs would they meet? They would probably be only a few chickens and goats away from complete food security. Lee ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
You can't say colored you have to say people of color. I'm not sure what the difference is, but the former is racist and the latter is PC. Word. --R Redghost wrote: Danny is pretty fed up with the idiots running the schools here as well. Due to labor unions a large ($12.6 million) grant was rescinded that would have paid for extra science and math teaching. The teacher union thought it smacked of merit pay, since the teachers who produced students able to pass the math and science standardized tests would be paid for the effort. We also have a coloreds only child welfare agency that just got shut down. It was instituted to deal with the peculiar problems faced by colored children in the system. It was deemed racist and not egalitarian. Seattle is a very egalitarian society, and all must suffer and produce at the lowest common denominator. clay On 4 May 2008, at 19:56, Craig McCluskey wrote: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/ 2004391337_danny04.html Danny Westneat Seattle Times staff columnist I thought I was going green. Instead, I was committing a crime against humanity. Recently our family car was totaled in a wreck (no one was hurt). So I figured: Here's a chance to green up. To leave gas guzzling behind. To go off the oil grid.I'm talking biodiesel. Instead of running your car on noxious petroleum, you cruise about town powered by veggie oil ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Rich Thomas wrote: You can't say colored you have to say people of color. My grandmother learned that negro was politically incorrect and colored was the PC euphemism of the day. By the time she finally adjusted from colored to black, the PC crowd had moved on to African-American. I loathe all the hyphenated euphemisms. If you're going to label people, at least try to avoid calling natural born USA citizens African, European, or Asian. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Yeah, I really hate all the unnaturally born folks. they freak me out. clay On 7 May 2008, at 08:54, Mitch Haley wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: You can't say colored you have to say people of color. My grandmother learned that negro was politically incorrect and colored was the PC euphemism of the day. By the time she finally adjusted from colored to black, the PC crowd had moved on to African-American. I loathe all the hyphenated euphemisms. If you're going to label people, at least try to avoid calling natural born USA citizens African, European, or Asian. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Sensitive people, delete this message now!! With that said, my grandmother used to call black people darkies My grandfather used to call them spooks No, they were not raciest, that was just how things were in their day. They didnt mean anything by it. Now days, they would get shot or something for saying things like that Rich Thomas wrote: You can't say colored you have to say people of color. My grandmother learned that negro was politically incorrect and colored was the PC euphemism of the day. By the time she finally adjusted from colored to black, the PC crowd had moved on to African-American. I loathe all the hyphenated euphemisms. If you're going to label people, at least try to avoid calling natural born USA citizens African, European, or Asian. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
The best rememdy to counteract racist tendencies is to actually get to know people well who are different. This was the biggest benefit I acquired from being a Peace Corps volunteer. My contact with dark-skinned people on a daily basis illustrated to me how prejudiced I was without realizing it. Up until then I had lived in a basically lily-white world and had very liberal leanings. IMO, the experience of sending young Americans overseas yields more dividends to the USA than to the host countries. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sensitive people, delete this message now!! With that said, my grandmother used to call black people darkies My grandfather used to call them spooks No, they were not raciest, that was just how things were in their day. They didnt mean anything by it. Now days, they would get shot or something for saying things like that Rich Thomas wrote: You can't say colored you have to say people of color. My grandmother learned that negro was politically incorrect and colored was the PC euphemism of the day. By the time she finally adjusted from colored to black, the PC crowd had moved on to African-American. I loathe all the hyphenated euphemisms. If you're going to label people, at least try to avoid calling natural born USA citizens African, European, or Asian. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
except when the young Americans all dress alike and carry weapons! On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:30 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMO, the experience of sending young Americans overseas yields more dividends to the USA than to the host countries. -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ apt-get update apt-get upgrade The following packages will be replaced Prez Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Hear hear! There is as much misinformation on biofuels as there is actual information. I'm glad to see somebody else is actually paying attention, the media surely are not. -Curt Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 08:36:46 -0700 From: Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Just watched a Modern Marvels show on corn. The ethanol corn is being genetically manipulated to produce more starch to better procure more energy than is needed to make the stuff. Might be ok for food crops, but is hybridized to be a fuel crop. Just because it is corn and makes ethanol, does not mean it is all used up. All the left over mush is very rich in protein and oils. This distillers waste is prime animal feed, so there is extended use of the product into nice little steaks, chicken strips and bacon. It may not be feeding all the poor little black people in africa, but it is fully used. And the food price thing is a hoax. If there were such a huge need for corn here, we could just reduce the excess corn we have going to all the poor folks in africa and elsewhere. Bound to be whole ships full of that stuff could be better used here to make corn flakes and high fructose corn syrup. Which is not really good for you. clay - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
My concern is sort of the opposite. In Canada, we seem to have so many special benefits for minorities that we are the ones discriminated against. Our native people want to have separate programs for every conceivable thing. I cannot help but suspect that one day they will turn around and accuse us of segregating them. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:31 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green The best rememdy to counteract racist tendencies is to actually get to know people well who are different. This was the biggest benefit I acquired from being a Peace Corps volunteer. My contact with dark-skinned people on a daily basis illustrated to me how prejudiced I was without realizing it. Up until then I had lived in a basically lily-white world and had very liberal leanings. IMO, the experience of sending young Americans overseas yields more dividends to the USA than to the host countries. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sensitive people, delete this message now!! With that said, my grandmother used to call black people darkies My grandfather used to call them spooks No, they were not raciest, that was just how things were in their day. They didnt mean anything by it. Now days, they would get shot or something for saying things like that Rich Thomas wrote: You can't say colored you have to say people of color. My grandmother learned that negro was politically incorrect and colored was the PC euphemism of the day. By the time she finally adjusted from colored to black, the PC crowd had moved on to African-American. I loathe all the hyphenated euphemisms. If you're going to label people, at least try to avoid calling natural born USA citizens African, European, or Asian. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
The media is seldom interested in the truth. It is just not exciting enough to be newsworthy. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:14 PM To: Diesel List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green Hear hear! There is as much misinformation on biofuels as there is actual information. I'm glad to see somebody else is actually paying attention, the media surely are not. -Curt Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 08:36:46 -0700 From: Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Just watched a Modern Marvels show on corn. The ethanol corn is being genetically manipulated to produce more starch to better procure more energy than is needed to make the stuff. Might be ok for food crops, but is hybridized to be a fuel crop. Just because it is corn and makes ethanol, does not mean it is all used up. All the left over mush is very rich in protein and oils. This distillers waste is prime animal feed, so there is extended use of the product into nice little steaks, chicken strips and bacon. It may not be feeding all the poor little black people in africa, but it is fully used. And the food price thing is a hoax. If there were such a huge need for corn here, we could just reduce the excess corn we have going to all the poor folks in africa and elsewhere. Bound to be whole ships full of that stuff could be better used here to make corn flakes and high fructose corn syrup. Which is not really good for you. clay - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
No no, especially true in that case! America is reaping great oil dividends from Mr. Bush's War for Oil, aren't we? Max -- Message: 19 Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 13:06:26 -0500 From: Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 except when the young Americans all dress alike and carry weapons! On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:30 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMO, the experience of sending young Americans overseas yields more dividends to the USA than to the host countries. -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ https://webmail.nmci.navy.mil/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ apt-get update apt-get upgrade The following packages will be replaced Prez Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4101 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20080507/e1efefe8/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Yeah, and then there are those darn Quebecois, too. grin Aren't you guys going to let them secede and be done with them? grin Dan --- R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My concern is sort of the opposite. In Canada, we seem to have so many special benefits for minorities that we are the ones discriminated against. Our native people want to have separate programs for every conceivable thing. I cannot help but suspect that one day they will turn around and accuse us of segregating them. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:31 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green The best rememdy to counteract racist tendencies is to actually get to know people well who are different. This was the biggest benefit I acquired from being a Peace Corps volunteer. My contact with dark-skinned people on a daily basis illustrated to me how prejudiced I was without realizing it. Up until then I had lived in a basically lily-white world and had very liberal leanings. IMO, the experience of sending young Americans overseas yields more dividends to the USA than to the host countries. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sensitive people, delete this message now!! With that said, my grandmother used to call black people darkies My grandfather used to call them spooks No, they were not raciest, that was just how things were in their day. They didnt mean anything by it. Now days, they would get shot or something for saying things like that Rich Thomas wrote: You can't say colored you have to say people of color. My grandmother learned that negro was politically incorrect and colored was the PC euphemism of the day. By the time she finally adjusted from colored to black, the PC crowd had moved on to African-American. I loathe all the hyphenated euphemisms. If you're going to label people, at least try to avoid calling natural born USA citizens African, European, or Asian. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
You would not want to get me started on that subject. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of LWB250 Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:45 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green Yeah, and then there are those darn Quebecois, too. grin Aren't you guys going to let them secede and be done with them? grin Dan --- R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My concern is sort of the opposite. In Canada, we seem to have so many special benefits for minorities that we are the ones discriminated against. Our native people want to have separate programs for every conceivable thing. I cannot help but suspect that one day they will turn around and accuse us of segregating them. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:31 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green The best rememdy to counteract racist tendencies is to actually get to know people well who are different. This was the biggest benefit I acquired from being a Peace Corps volunteer. My contact with dark-skinned people on a daily basis illustrated to me how prejudiced I was without realizing it. Up until then I had lived in a basically lily-white world and had very liberal leanings. IMO, the experience of sending young Americans overseas yields more dividends to the USA than to the host countries. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sensitive people, delete this message now!! With that said, my grandmother used to call black people darkies My grandfather used to call them spooks No, they were not raciest, that was just how things were in their day. They didnt mean anything by it. Now days, they would get shot or something for saying things like that Rich Thomas wrote: You can't say colored you have to say people of color. My grandmother learned that negro was politically incorrect and colored was the PC euphemism of the day. By the time she finally adjusted from colored to black, the PC crowd had moved on to African-American. I loathe all the hyphenated euphemisms. If you're going to label people, at least try to avoid calling natural born USA citizens African, European, or Asian. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
As long as they are well armed, have body armour and AWAC, this is a great way to expose our youth to the wide world. Get to know all sorts of people and see they are just as screwy as the folks back home. Then you get home and wonder just how close is the good old USA to going bonkers like the rest of the world. Thin veneer. very thin veneer. and much longer to fall clay On 7 May 2008, at 10:30, andrew strasfogel wrote: The best rememdy to counteract racist tendencies is to actually get to know people well who are different. This was the biggest benefit I acquired from being a Peace Corps volunteer. My contact with dark-skinned people on a daily basis illustrated to me how prejudiced I was without realizing it. Up until then I had lived in a basically lily-white world and had very liberal leanings. IMO, the experience of sending young Americans overseas yields more dividends to the USA than to the host countries. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sensitive people, delete this message now!! With that said, my grandmother used to call black people darkies My grandfather used to call them spooks No, they were not raciest, that was just how things were in their day. They didnt mean anything by it. Now days, they would get shot or something for saying things like that Rich Thomas wrote: You can't say colored you have to say people of color. My grandmother learned that negro was politically incorrect and colored was the PC euphemism of the day. By the time she finally adjusted from colored to black, the PC crowd had moved on to African-American. I loathe all the hyphenated euphemisms. If you're going to label people, at least try to avoid calling natural born USA citizens African, European, or Asian. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
We can Hope that might Change! Or Change what we Hope for? I am so confused. --R Redghost wrote: As long as they are well armed, have body armour and AWAC, this is a great way to expose our youth to the wide world. Get to know all sorts of people and see they are just as screwy as the folks back home. Then you get home and wonder just how close is the good old USA to going bonkers like the rest of the world. Thin veneer. very thin veneer. and much longer to fall clay On 7 May 2008, at 10:30, andrew strasfogel wrote: The best rememdy to counteract racist tendencies is to actually get to know people well who are different. This was the biggest benefit I acquired from being a Peace Corps volunteer. My contact with dark-skinned people on a daily basis illustrated to me how prejudiced I was without realizing it. Up until then I had lived in a basically lily-white world and had very liberal leanings. IMO, the experience of sending young Americans overseas yields more dividends to the USA than to the host countries. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sensitive people, delete this message now!! With that said, my grandmother used to call black people darkies My grandfather used to call them spooks No, they were not raciest, that was just how things were in their day. They didnt mean anything by it. Now days, they would get shot or something for saying things like that Rich Thomas wrote: You can't say colored you have to say people of color. My grandmother learned that negro was politically incorrect and colored was the PC euphemism of the day. By the time she finally adjusted from colored to black, the PC crowd had moved on to African-American. I loathe all the hyphenated euphemisms. If you're going to label people, at least try to avoid calling natural born USA citizens African, European, or Asian. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Not to stir things up, but in the interest of being better informed, what's the latest with those wacky pseudo-Frenchmen? Having traveled extensively in Quebec, I seemed to find a wide range of attitudes towards the whole thing, from hard-core right-wing rabid secessionists, to those who don't really seem to give a darn. Just curious... Dan --- R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You would not want to get me started on that subject. Randy Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Right now it seems as though they're hibernating againmust be building up more foam. We tried to get rid of the centuries ago when we forced the Acadians out of here. They went to Loisiana and became the cajuns. I guess we thought we'd share the pain. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
The Quebec secessionists are right-wing? I thought they were the ones who found the rest of Canada too far right for their tastes. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Yes, like most French peoples, they're pretty left...one of the things I like about them! Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Tom, you hit on 'the dark side' of much of the recycle and green movement. My first real kick in the seat on this came from an engineer friend who had to deal with land use issues. His comment was that prior to the recycle push when you put stuff into a landfill most of it stayed there. After so many items started to be made biodegradable suddenly runoff became a major problem as these items don't necessarily breakdown into pleasant stuff for drinking water. I don't suppose we who drive ancient MB's need to be talked at too much about the problem of a 'throw away society', but it does need to be preached loud and long. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:08 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green Yep, the truth is coming out. Bio Diesel is causing a serious third world food shortage. Wait till they figure out the real impact that Ethanol production has on the world. We are already experiencing record food inflation, partly due to higher oil prices but more directly related to the fact that so much corn is going to Ethanol! Then there's the long term impact of compact florescent bulbs. Every one contains a bit of mercury. I don't know about you but I throw mine out when they burn out and I bet that 99% of the county does the same. So, do mercury tainted landfills appeal to you? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig McCluskey Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:56 PM To: mercedes Subject: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2004391337_danny04.html Danny Westneat Seattle Times staff columnist I thought I was going green. Instead, I was committing a crime against humanity. Recently our family car was totaled in a wreck (no one was hurt). So I figured: Here's a chance to green up. To leave gas guzzling behind. To go off the oil grid.I'm talking biodiesel. Instead of running your car on noxious petroleum, you cruise about town powered by veggie oil ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
I think they are stretching things quite a bit: The reason is that it takes land to grow fuel. That inevitably leads to the destruction of forests and grasslands, the studies say. When was the last time you heard of somebody clear-cutting land so they could grow soybeans and corn? Do these people have any idea how much cropland the government is currently paying farmers to not grow crops on? Or is that what they mean by grasslands? 60 acres of those grasslands were bought by my family 30 years ago as croplands. Since then, I've seen it used as cropland, hayfields, pasture, and now wild grasses. The local wildlife (especially deer, pheasant, and turkey) liked it best when it was planted in corn. These days they sleep in the grass and do a lot of their eating in the neighbors' corn. I'm not sure how large the deer herd would be without hunting pressure. We had 30 cattle and 25-30 deer 15 years ago, now we have 15-20 deer. Clearly, land that can support 30 or more cattle could easily support 100 deer, but that sort of deer population (1000 deer per square mile) would quickly be deemed a nuisance. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
The real issue is that the push for bio-diesel is causing a serious food crises in some third world countries. Clearing land planting more palm oil trees may solve this problem which leads back to the point the author was making. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 6:48 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green I think they are stretching things quite a bit: The reason is that it takes land to grow fuel. That inevitably leads to the destruction of forests and grasslands, the studies say. When was the last time you heard of somebody clear-cutting land so they could grow soybeans and corn? Do these people have any idea how much cropland the government is currently paying farmers to not grow crops on? Or is that what they mean by grasslands? 60 acres of those grasslands were bought by my family 30 years ago as croplands. Since then, I've seen it used as cropland, hayfields, pasture, and now wild grasses. The local wildlife (especially deer, pheasant, and turkey) liked it best when it was planted in corn. These days they sleep in the grass and do a lot of their eating in the neighbors' corn. I'm not sure how large the deer herd would be without hunting pressure. We had 30 cattle and 25-30 deer 15 years ago, now we have 15-20 deer. Clearly, land that can support 30 or more cattle could easily support 100 deer, but that sort of deer population (1000 deer per square mile) would quickly be deemed a nuisance. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1415 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 6:01 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1415 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 6:01 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Mitch Haley wrote: When was the last time you heard of somebody clear-cutting land so they could grow soybeans and corn? Do these people have any idea how much cropland the government is currently paying farmers to not grow crops on? Or is that what they mean by grasslands? Grasslands? I got yer grasslands, right here! There are few things more foolish or wasteful than the grass lawn. Because a grass lawn is a monoculture with the majority of ecological niches vacant, it requires a great deal of human effort (and petrochemicals) to maintain. And for what? Every week, the suburbanoids come forth with their riding mowers to harvest their grass lawn crop, mowing it down. But they have no use for what they harvest, it goes into (petrochemical based) garbage bags and is sent off to the landfill. An outside observer would have to conclude that we are all daft. If a whole suburban neighborhood rose up against the tyranny of the lawn, and planted their yards and medians with a diverse and full ecosystem with fruit trees and bushes, perennial veggies, grapevines, and edible groundcovers, how much of their food needs would they meet? They would probably be only a few chickens and goats away from complete food security. Lee ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Where would we play Jarts? Pete -- Original message -- From: Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mitch Haley wrote: When was the last time you heard of somebody clear-cutting land so they could grow soybeans and corn? Do these people have any idea how much cropland the government is currently paying farmers to not grow crops on? Or is that what they mean by grasslands? Grasslands? I got yer grasslands, right here! There are few things more foolish or wasteful than the grass lawn. Because a grass lawn is a monoculture with the majority of ecological niches vacant, it requires a great deal of human effort (and petrochemicals) to maintain. And for what? Every week, the suburbanoids come forth with their riding mowers to harvest their grass lawn crop, mowing it down. But they have no use for what they harvest, it goes into (petrochemical based) garbage bags and is sent off to the landfill. An outside observer would have to conclude that we are all daft. If a whole suburban neighborhood rose up against the tyranny of the lawn, and planted their yards and medians with a diverse and full ecosystem with fruit trees and bushes, perennial veggies, grapevines, and edible groundcovers, how much of their food needs would they meet? They would probably be only a few chickens and goats away from complete food security. Lee ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
At the pre-school playground. --R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where would we play Jarts? Pete -- Original message -- From: Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mitch Haley wrote: When was the last time you heard of somebody clear-cutting land so they could grow soybeans and corn? Do these people have any idea how much cropland the government is currently paying farmers to not grow crops on? Or is that what they mean by grasslands? Grasslands? I got yer grasslands, right here! There are few things more foolish or wasteful than the grass lawn. Because a grass lawn is a monoculture with the majority of ecological niches vacant, it requires a great deal of human effort (and petrochemicals) to maintain. And for what? Every week, the suburbanoids come forth with their riding mowers to harvest their grass lawn crop, mowing it down. But they have no use for what they harvest, it goes into (petrochemical based) garbage bags and is sent off to the landfill. An outside observer would have to conclude that we are all daft. If a whole suburban neighborhood rose up against the tyranny of the lawn, and planted their yards and medians with a diverse and full ecosystem with fruit trees and bushes, perennial veggies, grapevines, and edible groundcovers, how much of their food needs would they meet? They would probably be only a few chickens and goats away from complete food security. Lee ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Not legal at school anymore - someone's kid might get hurt. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 7:45 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green At the pre-school playground. --R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where would we play Jarts? Pete -- Original message -- From: Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mitch Haley wrote: When was the last time you heard of somebody clear-cutting land so they could grow soybeans and corn? Do these people have any idea how much cropland the government is currently paying farmers to not grow crops on? Or is that what they mean by grasslands? Grasslands? I got yer grasslands, right here! There are few things more foolish or wasteful than the grass lawn. Because a grass lawn is a monoculture with the majority of ecological niches vacant, it requires a great deal of human effort (and petrochemicals) to maintain. And for what? Every week, the suburbanoids come forth with their riding mowers to harvest their grass lawn crop, mowing it down. But they have no use for what they harvest, it goes into (petrochemical based) garbage bags and is sent off to the landfill. An outside observer would have to conclude that we are all daft. If a whole suburban neighborhood rose up against the tyranny of the lawn, and planted their yards and medians with a diverse and full ecosystem with fruit trees and bushes, perennial veggies, grapevines, and edible groundcovers, how much of their food needs would they meet? They would probably be only a few chickens and goats away from complete food security. Lee ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1415 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 6:01 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1415 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 6:01 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
I'll start to get nervous about the food shortage when somebody is renting the 2 fields I have open and clamoring for the rest that we're planing in trees... Corn grows well in northern Maine, labor costs are low, shipping is always a problem... I think most of the food worries in this country (read some of survivalblog.com) are manufactured (that stupid rice ration comes to mind) to help agribusiness come out better in the farm bill... -Curt Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 07:47:58 -0400 From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think they are stretching things quite a bit: The reason is that it takes land to grow fuel. That inevitably leads to the destruction of forests and grasslands, the studies say. When was the last time you heard of somebody clear-cutting land so they could grow soybeans and corn? Do these people have any idea how much cropland the government is currently paying farmers to not grow crops on? Or is that what they mean by grasslands? 60 acres of those grasslands were bought by my family 30 years ago as croplands. Since then, I've seen it used as cropland, hayfields, pasture, and now wild grasses. The local wildlife (especially deer, pheasant, and turkey) liked it best when it was planted in corn. These days they sleep in the grass and do a lot of their eating in the neighbors' corn. I'm not sure how large the deer herd would be without hunting pressure. We had 30 cattle and 25-30 deer 15 years ago, now we have 15-20 deer. Clearly, land that can support 30 or more cattle could easily support 100 deer, but that sort of deer population (1000 deer per square mile) would quickly be deemed a nuisance. Mitch. - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Because a grass lawn is a monoculture with the majority of ecological niches vacant, it requires a great deal of human effort (and petrochemicals) to maintain. You haven't been to our house! We don't do anything but water and mow. Once it gets hot, we can mostly dispense with the latter. Our clippings are mulched right back into the grass. Well, at least _some_ of it is grass. It serves many purposes for us. Firebreak, security buffer, killing field (aka the dog's dismemberment shop of Randomly Found Dead Things), car washing area... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Water? You water yours? Mine gets watered (and you can tell) where I drag the hose out to water the garden... If I get around to installing drip irrigation this year even that will stop. I'm pretty crusty when it comes to lawns, why do I want to pay big money to grow grass? -Curt Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 06:44:47 -0700 From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Because a grass lawn is a monoculture with the majority of ecological niches vacant, it requires a great deal of human effort (and petrochemicals) to maintain. You haven't been to our house! We don't do anything but water and mow. Once it gets hot, we can mostly dispense with the latter. Our clippings are mulched right back into the grass. Well, at least _some_ of it is grass. It serves many purposes for us. Firebreak, security buffer, killing field (aka the dog's dismemberment shop of Randomly Found Dead Things), car washing area... -- Jim - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 06:44:47 -0700 From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Because a grass lawn is a monoculture with the majority of ecological niches vacant, it requires a great deal of human effort (and petrochemicals) to maintain. You haven't been to our house! We don't do anything but water and mow. Once it gets hot, we can mostly dispense with the latter. Our clippings are mulched right back into the grass. Well, at least _some_ of it is grass. It serves many purposes for us. Firebreak, security buffer, killing field (aka the dog's dismemberment shop of Randomly Found Dead Things), car washing area... -- Jim -- To add to Jim's fine response, here in SC a lawn also acts as 'hurricane break' so that when the trees start falling, hopefully the bigger parts won't reach my house Very respectfully, /s/ LCDR Max Dillon '87 300TD 308k miles Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Tom Hargrave wrote: Then there's the long term impact of compact florescent bulbs. Every one contains a bit of mercury. I don't know about you but I throw mine out when they burn out and I bet that 99% of the county does the same. So, do mercury tainted landfills appeal to you? Metal-halide, low-pressure sodium, and normal (tube) fluorescent bulbs also have mercury in them... I have no numbers, but I think the use of those bulbs far outnumber CFL usage. This has been an ongoing thing for quite some time now... its not a new problem. Eventually Joe Public will be made aware of the problem, and recycling centers for the public will be popularized. It also depends on the area. In the rural south it isn't as likely to be a problem as it would be for more urbanized areas with significantly denser populations (and thus much larger and more concentrated landfills). http://www.p2pays.org/mercury/lights.asp John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
I'm pretty crusty when it comes to lawns, why do I want to pay big money to grow grass? No big money for us, we're on a well. The water is nearly free. Couple of gallons of gasoline a year for the mower. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
LWB250 wrote: I haven't seen Jarts in years. I figured the potential for product liability ran then out of business years ago. I think CPSC banned them. There were non-penetrating substitutes for a while, but I haven't seen those in years either. I'll have to dig mine out (Jarts) and read the rules and safety instruction. Can't remember if some players were supposed to stand near the target area and then throw them back in the next round, or was everybody supposed to stand behind the thrower at all times? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Mitch Haley wrote: Can't remember if some players were supposed to stand near the target area and then throw them back in the next round, or was everybody supposed to stand behind the thrower at all times? I was watching some old (50's 60's) home movies with my Mom the other night... you threw it right next to the other kids... then they would throw them back to your side, etc. With my aim, somebody would've got one planted on their head. It does look like an awesome game though! John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Water? You water yours? Mine gets watered (and you can tell) where I drag the hose out to water the garden... If I get around to installing drip irrigation this year even that will stop. Ditto. Jim and I are both in the Pacific NW; he's on the dry side of the mountains, so I guess he has an excuse, but I'm on the wet side where the grass gets naturally watered from September through May but has to fend for itself the rest of the time. It turns brown, but comes back from dormancy just fine. (The only problem is if you live somewhere with neighborhood association bylaws, gated community covenants, or some such that forbid any vegetation other than green lawn year-round.) Nevertheless, my long-term plan is less grass, more edible permaculture. Alex Chamberlain ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: Water? You water yours? Mine gets watered (and you can tell) where I drag the hose out to water the garden... If I get around to installing drip irrigation this year even that will stop. Ditto. Jim and I are both in the Pacific NW; he's on the dry side of the mountains, so I guess he has an excuse, but I'm on the wet side where the grass gets naturally watered from September through May but has to fend for itself the rest of the time. It turns brown, but comes back from dormancy just fine. (The only problem is if you live somewhere with neighborhood association bylaws, gated community covenants, or some such that forbid any vegetation other than green lawn year-round.) Nevertheless, my long-term plan is less grass, more edible permaculture. Alex Chamberlain Here are a number of ground covers suggested as substitutes for grass. Anyone had experience with any of them? I'd plant a vegetable garden in the front yard but this restricted subdivision, which is fairly reasonable, wouldn't go for that. Thanks, Gerry .. Low-growing ground covers Many of these ground huggers can withstand light foot traffic. In other words, you can walk on them periodically, and they're ideal for planting around stepping stones or in the narrow planting strip between the sidewalk and street. All the following plants are evergreen, meaning they have leaves all year. (Deciduous plants lose their leaves in the fall.) a.. Wooly yarrow (Achillea tomentosa): This tough, hardy ground cover reaches to about 6 to 9 inches high and can take foot traffic. In the summer, yellow flowers complement the ferny, gray-green foliage. The leaves are also aromatic, a fragrant bonus when you walk on it (that is, if you like the smell). a.. Carpet bugle (Ajuga reptans): Carpet bugle grows 2 to 6 inches high with handsome, deep green or purplish leaves. This hardy plant sports blue flowers that grow on spikes in spring and early summer. a.. Chamomile (Chamaemelum nobile): This plant's fine-textured, aromatic foliage reaches about 6 inches high. Chamomile has yellow flowers (herbal tea is made from the dried flowers) and can withstand light traffic. The ground cover is hardy to about 0 degrees F. a.. English ivy (Hedera helix): This widely adapted, sprawling foliage plant sometimes has variegated leaves. Generally, this hardy plant grows 12 to 18 inches high and can climb. a.. Aaron's Beard, St. John's Wort (Hypericum calycinum): Sunny yellow flowers highlight this hardy plant, which grows 12 inches high. a.. Iceplant (Lampranthus):This large group of low-growing succulents has bright flowers. Most of these drought-tolerant plants are not very hardy and are best adapted to mild-winter climates. a.. Mondo grass or lily turf (Liriope or Ophiopogon): Grassy leaves and summer flowers identify these two similar, hardy plants. They also thrive in shade. a.. Japanese spurge (Pachysandra terminalis): This attractive foliage plant is ideal for shady, moist situations. Japanese spurge grows to about 10 inches high and is hardy. a.. Spring cinquefoil (Potentilla tabernaemontana): Spring cinquefoil has neatly lobed leaves and yellow flowers and grows 3 to 6 inches high. This hardy plant can withstand foot traffic. a.. Creeping thyme (Thymus praecox): A spreading herb with aromatic foliage and white to pink flowers, this plant grows 3 to 6 inches high. Creeping thyme is hardy and can withstand traffic. a.. Dwarf periwinkle (Vinca minor): This ground cover displays dark green leaves and violet blue flowers. Growing 6 to 12 inches high, dwarf periwinkles thrive in shade and are hardy. http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/Choose-Ground-Covers-as-a-Lawn-Alternative.id-2951.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
I like the Von Braun solution - pave it over and paint it green. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of archer Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:05 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: Water? You water yours? Mine gets watered (and you can tell) where I drag the hose out to water the garden... If I get around to installing drip irrigation this year even that will stop. Ditto. Jim and I are both in the Pacific NW; he's on the dry side of the mountains, so I guess he has an excuse, but I'm on the wet side where the grass gets naturally watered from September through May but has to fend for itself the rest of the time. It turns brown, but comes back from dormancy just fine. (The only problem is if you live somewhere with neighborhood association bylaws, gated community covenants, or some such that forbid any vegetation other than green lawn year-round.) Nevertheless, my long-term plan is less grass, more edible permaculture. Alex Chamberlain Here are a number of ground covers suggested as substitutes for grass. Anyone had experience with any of them? I'd plant a vegetable garden in the front yard but this restricted subdivision, which is fairly reasonable, wouldn't go for that. Thanks, Gerry .. Low-growing ground covers Many of these ground huggers can withstand light foot traffic. In other words, you can walk on them periodically, and they're ideal for planting around stepping stones or in the narrow planting strip between the sidewalk and street. All the following plants are evergreen, meaning they have leaves all year. (Deciduous plants lose their leaves in the fall.) a.. Wooly yarrow (Achillea tomentosa): This tough, hardy ground cover reaches to about 6 to 9 inches high and can take foot traffic. In the summer, yellow flowers complement the ferny, gray-green foliage. The leaves are also aromatic, a fragrant bonus when you walk on it (that is, if you like the smell). a.. Carpet bugle (Ajuga reptans): Carpet bugle grows 2 to 6 inches high with handsome, deep green or purplish leaves. This hardy plant sports blue flowers that grow on spikes in spring and early summer. a.. Chamomile (Chamaemelum nobile): This plant's fine-textured, aromatic foliage reaches about 6 inches high. Chamomile has yellow flowers (herbal tea is made from the dried flowers) and can withstand light traffic. The ground cover is hardy to about 0 degrees F. a.. English ivy (Hedera helix): This widely adapted, sprawling foliage plant sometimes has variegated leaves. Generally, this hardy plant grows 12 to 18 inches high and can climb. a.. Aaron's Beard, St. John's Wort (Hypericum calycinum): Sunny yellow flowers highlight this hardy plant, which grows 12 inches high. a.. Iceplant (Lampranthus):This large group of low-growing succulents has bright flowers. Most of these drought-tolerant plants are not very hardy and are best adapted to mild-winter climates. a.. Mondo grass or lily turf (Liriope or Ophiopogon): Grassy leaves and summer flowers identify these two similar, hardy plants. They also thrive in shade. a.. Japanese spurge (Pachysandra terminalis): This attractive foliage plant is ideal for shady, moist situations. Japanese spurge grows to about 10 inches high and is hardy. a.. Spring cinquefoil (Potentilla tabernaemontana): Spring cinquefoil has neatly lobed leaves and yellow flowers and grows 3 to 6 inches high. This hardy plant can withstand foot traffic. a.. Creeping thyme (Thymus praecox): A spreading herb with aromatic foliage and white to pink flowers, this plant grows 3 to 6 inches high. Creeping thyme is hardy and can withstand traffic. a.. Dwarf periwinkle (Vinca minor): This ground cover displays dark green leaves and violet blue flowers. Growing 6 to 12 inches high, dwarf periwinkles thrive in shade and are hardy. http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/Choose-Ground-Covers-as-a-Law n-Alternative.id-2951.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1415 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 6:01 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1415 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 6:01 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
This was in the NYTimes the other day, I forgot to save a link but you can find it. --R May 1, 2008 In the Garden Moss Makes a Lush, No-Care Lawn By JANCEE DUNN Solebury, Pa. DAVID BENNER hasn't watered his lawn since the Kennedy administration. He hasn't mowed it, either. And it's doing just fine. On a late-April afternoon, the two-acre property surrounding his ranch house in Bucks County was a carpet of green, uniformly lush and velvety under a canopy of shade trees. Mr. Benner, 78, a retired professor of ornamental horticulture, is also a longtime practitioner and advocate of what he calls the moss approach to lawn maintenance. Every time I give a lecture, I go into this spiel: get rid of your grass, and grow moss, he said. And now it's finally gaining momentum. For more than a century, moss has been anathema to homeowners and gardeners. Type moss and lawn on an Internet search engine and you'll find more ways to kill it than create it. MORE ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Rich Thomas wrote: Moss Makes a Lush, No-Care Lawn http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/garden/01moss.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
On Mon, 5 May 2008 13:04:38 -0400 archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a.. Iceplant (Lampranthus):This large group of low-growing succulents has bright flowers. Most of these drought-tolerant plants are not very hardy and are best adapted to mild-winter climates. These were used quite frequently in the beach areas near Los Angeles. They were used to stabilize sandy slopes. They are not suitable to walk on since they are 8 high or so. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
I'm on the wet side where the grass gets naturally watered from September through May but has to fend for itself the rest of the time. It turns brown, but comes back from dormancy just fine. And my first year with a lawn here I treated it like we did on the wet side. Figured it would come back from brown with the fall rains. It didn't. That's OK, tilling and seeding it again was hardly any effort! (And putting in the watering system, etc.) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2004391337_danny04.html Danny Westneat Seattle Times staff columnist I thought I was going green. Instead, I was committing a crime against humanity. Recently our family car was totaled in a wreck (no one was hurt). So I figured: Here's a chance to green up. To leave gas guzzling behind. To go off the oil grid.I'm talking biodiesel. Instead of running your car on noxious petroleum, you cruise about town powered by veggie oil ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Yep, the truth is coming out. Bio Diesel is causing a serious third world food shortage. Wait till they figure out the real impact that Ethanol production has on the world. We are already experiencing record food inflation, partly due to higher oil prices but more directly related to the fact that so much corn is going to Ethanol! Then there's the long term impact of compact florescent bulbs. Every one contains a bit of mercury. I don't know about you but I throw mine out when they burn out and I bet that 99% of the county does the same. So, do mercury tainted landfills appeal to you? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig McCluskey Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:56 PM To: mercedes Subject: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2004391337_danny04.html Danny Westneat Seattle Times staff columnist I thought I was going green. Instead, I was committing a crime against humanity. Recently our family car was totaled in a wreck (no one was hurt). So I figured: Here's a chance to green up. To leave gas guzzling behind. To go off the oil grid.I'm talking biodiesel. Instead of running your car on noxious petroleum, you cruise about town powered by veggie oil ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green
Nothing wrong with biodiesel. :) Everything wrong with big business and/or government:( Keep biodiesel local! Use waste feedstock when available! Biodiesel The answer to all of our fuel challenges? Not only NO but H _ _ _ NO! It was never intended to be the omnipresent answer. Future looks good concerning biodiesel from algae though. Keep your eyes, ears and mind open.:) Dave H... -- From: Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:56 PM To: mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] Feeling blue over trying to be green http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2004391337_danny04.html Danny Westneat Seattle Times staff columnist I thought I was going green. Instead, I was committing a crime against humanity. Recently our family car was totaled in a wreck (no one was hurt). So I figured: Here's a chance to green up. To leave gas guzzling behind. To go off the oil grid.I'm talking biodiesel. Instead of running your car on noxious petroleum, you cruise about town powered by veggie oil ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
