[No Thirst Software] Re: Credit Card Buckets for Finance Charges???

[The Watkinson Family]

For me, it depends on my primary card that I use for almost all my  
purchases and pay off every month, if I get an interest charge  
(because of a cash advance or a late payment), I assign the interest  
charge to a bucket.  However, for loan accounts and credit cards I'm  
paying off over time (and that I generally do not use to make new  
purchases), I do not assign the interest to a bucket.  These latter  
accounts aren't part of my cash flow.  In other words, I did not  
include the balances on these accounts in my starting cash flow and I  
do not use the equity or credit in them to execute my  spending plan.

For a credit card that is part of your cash flow/spending plan  
(meaning you use it on a recurring basis to make purchases that you  
account for in your spending plan), I think you could run into  
problems if you do not assign the interest charge to a bucket.  Over a  
period of time (a long period it the interest amount is small, or  
shorter if the interest amount is larger) if you didn't assign these  
transactions to a bucket, you would think that you had more money than  
you actually do.

Suppose you go through the year and you accumulate $500 worth of  
interest charges on your credit card.  If you don't assign these  
interest charges to buckets, you reduce the cash you have available by  
increasing the balance on your credit card without reducing the amount  
of money in your buckets.  This will create a $500 difference between  
the cash you actually have on hand and the amount that your buckets  
are telling you that you have.  Given a long enough period of time, or  
large enough interest charges, you could end up with a situation where  
your cash available doesn't cover the amount in your buckets.

Grace to you,
Blair


On Jun 9, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Dave wrote:


 Hello! I am wondering what everyone does for their finance charges. Do
 you put them in a bucket or not? Technically, you wouldn't have to b/c
 you are paying the charge and the payment at the same time. But I
 could see the other side too.

 What is the gist?

 Thanks!
 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Allocating Income, I had to do 12 times

[The Watkinson Family]

Michael,

If I understand you correctly, I think that you would want to set the  
allocation for 1st Half.  This will ensure that when you want to  
allocate on the 1st of the month, all your money will be allocated in  
the 1st half (which is the half that you're in on the 1st of the  
month).  I hope this makes sense.

If you were to select second half on all of your buckets, they would  
not be allocated unless you selected Allocate Income sometime during  
the second half of the month.

Grace to you,
Blair

On Jun 8, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Jason wrote:


 Thanks everybody for the helpful responses!

 On Jun 8, 6:09 am, bazcurtis bazm...@bazmac.co.uk wrote:
 Hi all,

 This is what I was trying to achieve, just for clarity.

 All my direct debits come out of Moneywell on the 1st of the month. I
 am paid on the first on the month. I want to fill my buckets in one  
 go
 at that time. From what I am reading I need to set the allocate  
 income
 to the 2nd half of the month and all will be well. Looking forward to
 next month :-)

 Best wishes

 Michael

 On Jun 8, 3:13 am, Druzyne drew.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 Jason,

 I just wanted to make sure you understand that the Timing of an
 allocation is specified in two places: once on your Spending Plan,
 where you specify First Half/Second Half/All Month for each bucket;
 and second on the Allocate Income panel (after you click the  
 Allocate
 Income icon) where you specify that the allocation is for the First
 Half or Second Half of the month.

 The setting on the Allocate Income panel seems to adjust  
 automatically
 based on the current date, but it can be changed. So, for those like
 myself who are paid once a month, and want to allocate once a month,
 we must specifically choose a Second Half allocation on the  
 first of
 a month for all of our income to be allocated (since it's already
 there). I believe this was what Michael was trying to achieve.

 You really should try to see a difference between the timing of a
 bucket, and the priority of a bucket. Priority means deciding that
 if there are limited funds, the electric bill should always win out
 against a vacation fund. This setting is best for those that have
 variable or unpredictable income. Timing means that if you're paid  
 bi-
 weekly or semi-monthly, you can hold off on allocating to your
 electricity bucket until the second paycheck, because the bill is  
 due
 at the end of the month. These settings have different purposes for
 different situations.

 I'm glad, however, that Kevin shared how priority figures into  
 timing
 and allocation. For those that allocate twice a month, it shows how
 beneficial it would be to always set the timing of low-priority
 buckets to Second Half (in the Spending Plan). It's not a big  
 deal,
 though, since you can always flow money out of low-priority buckets.

 //Drew
 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Money left in account, but no cash available for flowing?

[The Watkinson Family]

No problem... another way to summarize all the rules would be:

Always assign deposits/withdrawals in accounts that are above the line  
to a bucket.  Never assign deposits/withdrawals in accounts that are  
below the line to buckets.

This general rule would apply whether the transaction is a part of a  
transfer or simple debit or credit.

Grace to you,
Blair Watkinson


On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:00 AM, HenrikWL wrote:


 Wow... I can't tell you how much I appreciate you putting all that
 effort into such an excellent and informative post. Things are, very
 much, crystal clear now.

 Your setup is conceptually similar to what I was trying to achieve,
 but I got confused by all the buckets and I most certainly violated
 some of the rules you stipulated. I know for certain that I on at
 least one occasion transferred money from below the line to above
 the line without assigning the transaction to any buckets. Too late
 to fix now, what with all the juggling I performed in order to align
 things again (I wouldn't know where to even begin to undo it all), but
 now that everything's aligned I'll most definitely keep this in mind
 going forward.

 So, once again, thanks! :D

 On 9 Jun, 13:13, The Watkinson Family thewatkins...@mac.com wrote:
 There must be something else going on here

 Adding money to a savings expense bucket has the same net effect as
 adding money to an income bucket.

 Look at this way...  I could unspend Savings and put the money back
 into the Savings bucket that I took out.  Or I could put the money
 into an income bucket and then move it to the Savings bucket--either
 way has the same net effect.

 Here's another area where the problem may lie.  There are two sides  
 to
 each transfer--the withdrawal, and the deposit.  In MoneyWell, it is
 possible to assign either side of the transfer (or even both sides)  
 to
 a bucket.  While each transfer presents three options for assigning
 the transfer to a bucket (withdrawal side, deposit side, and both
 sides), these three options do not produce the same results.

 Let me try to step through the process that you should be using to
 track your Savings:
 When Allocating Income each month, you should be assigning money to
 your Savings bucket.  This bucket represents the amount of money that
 you plan to transfer into your Savings account.
 When you are ready to transfer funds from checking to savings, you'll
 create a transfer  from Checking to Savings, assigning the withdrawal
 side of the transfer to your Savings bucket.  At this point, your
 Savings bucket should be at 0 (you don't have any more money to
 transfer to Savings)
 If you need to use money from Savings, you'll transfer the money from
 your Savings account back into Checking, assigning the deposit side  
 of
 the transfer to a bucket.  There are merits to using income buckets  
 or
 expense buckets, but the choice is up to you.  Using an income bucket
 allows you to use the Allocate Income feature to disburse the money  
 to
 expense buckets.

 Here's how I set up my MoneyWell document in order to keep all this
 stuff straight:
 First, I decide how much cash I have on hand to fund my spending
 plan.  Some people might prefer to include Savings accounts balances
 in this formula, others may not.  You would also include the balance
 on certain kinds of credit cards.  Any credit card that you use on a
 recurring basis each month, paying the balance each month should be
 included in this formula as well.  I refer to these as Spending Plan
 Accounts.  I might also refer to it as cash on hand/cash available.
 Second, I decide how many other accounts I want to track in
 MoneyWell.  This could include additional Savings accounts, money
 market accounts, credit cards (accounts I don't pay off each month),
 auto loan balances, retirement accounts, home mortgage, etc.  These
 accounts affect my net worth and are of enough concern to me to track
 on a monthly basis, but they do not contribute to the money that I
 have on an on-going basis to pay for groceries and other monthly
 expenses.
 I'll set up the MoneyWell document like this:

 Spending Plan Accounts
 -
 Other Accounts

 Note:  The -- above is an account  
 that I use
 as a divider between the two types of accounts that I simply provide
 the name of multiple dashes.

 Setting up MoneyWell in this way provides a quick reminder to me  
 how I
 should assign to transfers to buckets.  There are three rules to  
 follow:
 When transferring funds on the same side of the line, do not assign
 the money to a bucket on either side of the transfer
 When a transfer crosses the line in a downward direction (from a
 Spending Plan Account to an Other Account), assign the withdrawal  
 side
 of the transaction to an bucket.  This money is treated as though it
 is being spent by your cash available on your other other accounts
 When

[No Thirst Software] Re: Buckets track all accounts, or just checking account?

[The Watkinson Family]

Daniel,

You would select which accounts to use for buckets based on their  
type.  Those accounts that provide money to you to spend on a monthly  
basis should be included in the bucket system.  These accounts would  
include:

Checking accounts
Cash accounts

As far as credit cards are concerned, some you might include, and some  
you might not include.  If the card you use is used for your spending  
throughout the month, and you pay off the card each month, you would  
include the credit card in your bucket system.  If it's a card you  
don't use anymore and that you're paying off over time, you would not  
include this card in your bucket system.  I do not personally  
recommend having a hybrid card which you continue to use but are not  
paying off the balance.  Using the bucket system to track the expenses  
on this card can get complicated.  However, it is doable, and if this  
is your situation, let me know.

As far as savings and money market accounts go, some people include  
them, and some do not.  To explain the advantages/disadvantages of  
each approach requires me to back up just a little bit.

Using the bucket system assures you that when you make a purchase and  
do not exceed the bucket amount for the category purchase you are  
making that you actually have the money to spend on that purchase.   
This guarantee is different that just checking the account balance to  
see if you have money in the account before buying something, because  
having money in an account is not guarantee that it is available--it  
may be needed for insurance, mortgage payments, bills, or groceries  
later that month.  Using the bucket/envelope system allows you take  
all the cash you have on hand (including money in certain kinds of  
accounts) and dedicate it toward certain kinds of purchases.  If you  
don't exceed the bucket amount, you can be assured that the money is  
available for that type of purchase without encroaching on other  
planned expenses.

What the bucket system does not guarantee, however, is that you  
actually have money in a given account.  Because you are combining  
your cash accounts and your checking account, and perhaps others, as  
well, it could be the case that the bucket money is not actually in  
the account you're spending from.  Let me provide a simple, but absurd  
example.

Cash: $5000
Checking: $50

The total money you have available is $5050, which you can distribute  
between your buckets.  Suppose you decide to allocate $500 in  
groceries.  As you can see, this money is not actually in your  
checking account, and if you were to pay using your debit card, you  
would over draw the account.  While it is true that you have the money  
to pay for $500 worth of groceries this month, you do not actually  
have the money in a particular account.  While this example borders on  
the absurd, you can see how adding multiple accounts can provide a  
practical example where you can't just look at bucket balances, but  
you would also need to be aware of or check your account balance  
before making a purchase.

So, back to why some people choose to include a Savings account in the  
bucket system and others do not.

First, the case for/against including the Savings account in your  
bucket system.  When you include your savings accounts and money  
market accounts in your bucket system, you're able to track the money  
that is in the account with buckets.  This setup avails itself to  
setting aside money that is for future or infrequent purchases where  
it can accrue a greater return rate than it can in a checking  
account.  The case against this setup is that you do need to be aware  
of your checking account balance prior to spending money to be sure  
that you are not going to overdraw the checking account.  It's  
possible that if you have multiple payments in December, including  
your insurance premium, Christmas presents, vehicle registration and  
taxes, etc, you could use a significant amount of money from checking  
and you would need to make a hefty transfer before finishing the month.

Now, the case for/against not including your Savings account in your  
bucket totals.  The case for should be pretty obvious.  Typically, the  
bulk of the money in your buckets would be stored/saved in a single  
checking account if you don't include a savings account.  Generally,  
if you don't run your balances to close, then you wouldn't need to  
concern yourself with the checking account balance before you made  
purchases.  You would only need to know what the bucket balance is.   
Since spending less than your bucket balance guarantees you won't  
exceed the money you have available, and since most of the money you  
have available is in your checking account, it follows that you  
probably won't exceed your checking account balance when you make a  
purchase that doesn't exceed the bucket balance.  The case against  
this type of account is that it is difficult to use the 

[No Thirst Software] Re: Optimal savings setup

[The Watkinson Family]

Looks good to me

The crux of your setup lies in the fact that you have multiple savings  
accounts, each intended for a specific purpose.  Furthermore, it  
appears that you treat all of your Savings accounts as omitted  
accounts.  In other words, money that is in these savings accounts  
isn't made available for usage in buckets.  The fact that you have  
three savings accounts with three different purposes helps answer the  
question, What's all the saved money for?  It helps you know what  
money has been allocated for gifts, summer expenses and rainy days.

For those that maintain only one savings account, it may be necessary  
to include the savings account in the bucket system and use the  
buckets to categorize money that has been saved in the savings  
account.  Though this setup has its own disadvantages.

I create an account that I use as a placeholder to divide my bucket- 
accounts and my omitted accounts, that I name with all dashes:

Checking
Credit Card 1
Credit Card 2
-
Summer Savings
Infrequent Savings
Rainy Day Fund

I use this to serve as a visual reminder as to whether I need to make  
the bucket optional or whether I should include the transfer in the  
bucket system.

Thanks for sharing your setup...

Grace to you,
Blair
On May 15, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Dave Hirsch wrote:


 I have been using MoneyWell for a few months now, and have tried a
 number of different ways of dealing with savings.  I've read a great
 many ways to handle this, and none have given me everything I wanted,
 but now I've found a good solution, I think.

 Here's my basic picture:  I have two credit card accounts, checking,
 and a number of savings accounts (described more here:
 http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software/browse_frm/thread/9d41a0f0aea0044f?hl=entvc=1)
  
 .
 The savings accounts are for unexpected expenses, summer income, and
 other goals, and are real accounts managed by my credit union.

 I want a solution that satisfies these constraints:
 - Lets me quickly see that my bucket balance is equal to my non-
 savings account balance (to ensure I haven't made some stupid mistake)
 - Doesn't require me to have any expense buckets that are designed to
 go permanently negative.
 - Allows me to omit selected accounts from bucket-based consideration,
 such as Summer Savings (so I don't think that I have that money to
 budget and spend)

 Here's what I'm doing now:
 1) Any transactions that put money directly into an omitted account
 get no bucket (right-click on transaction for Make Bucket Optional).
 2) Any transactions that transfer money from checking into a bucket-
 optional account get classified as a Savings bucket, and then income
 gets immediately flowed into that Savings bucket to cover it.
 3) Any transactions that transfer money from an omitted account into
 checking get classified as an income bucket (Other Income).
 4) In the summer, I will periodically give myself a paycheck by
 transferring money from Summer Savings account to Checking, and this
 will be bucketed as Other Income.
 5) In order to cover unexpected expenses, I will transfer money into
 checking, and call it Other Income as in (4).
 6) Payments to credit cards have no buckets.

 I think this will work for me.  Perhaps the description will help
 others.

 -Dave
 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Bucket Question (How do you do it?)

[The Watkinson Family]

 So here's my question. If you have one Home category which includes
 regularly occurring expenses (such as lawn care, cleaning, etc) how do
 you account for one-time unexpected expenses such as fix-the-roof?
 Do you over allocate money to the home bucket for just-in-case things,
 or just pour extra money into it should these expenses occur?

Rahul,

Have you considered an Emergency bucket into which you allocate money  
until you have about 3-6 months expenses saved?  This would provide  
for money for all sorts of expenses, home, car or otherwise.

This approach also allows you to keep your categories/buckets separate  
from your planned purchase.  If you were to over allocate the money  
into Home, you could inadvertently spend more than you had planned  
without actually exceeding your bucket amount.

Grace to you,
blair

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[No Thirst Software] Re: Stupid Question: Bucket Balance vs. Balance

[The Watkinson Family]

Lance,

You raise some good points, and I started to realize that simple Smart  
Buckets wouldn't be the ideal solution as I was typing it out;  
however...

Rather than querying money flows, which would probably be rather  
complex, I think that the same thing could be achieved if Smart  
Buckets allowed you to add or subtract selected bucket totals (buckets  
could be selected by name or by dollar amount) to the displayed Smart  
Bucket total.  This should capture the desired money flows, and would  
likely be easier to use.

So, the Smart Bucket would allow you to select which transactions you  
want displayed, and if you want to adjust the total of those  
transactions by a specified amount or specified bucket balances, or  
both.  This would allow a person to check their document (accounts  
balances = bucket balances) as well as check for how much you have  
overspent.  You could verify that this is less than a Buffer or  
savings bucket, or a preplanned buffer that you included when first  
setting up the initial cash flow.

In any case, I think you're right, even Smart Buckets (without  
displaying totals that can be adjusted by bucket balances or  
moneyflows) wouldn't completely automate the process of ensuring the  
document is in balance, but it would eliminate several steps.

Blair

On Apr 19, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Lance wrote:


 On Apr 18, 10:57 pm, The Watkinson Family thewatkins...@mac.com
 wrote:
 Lance,

 Would it need to be anything more complicated than this? Or is there
 something I'm missing?


 Ok, I see what you're saying now but I'm not sure that's much of an
 improvement over what we currently have. I'd like a smart bucket that
 shows the difference between the sum of my cash flow accounts and my
 bucket balances (which will always be $0 for me) so I can immediately
 see if I have any errors without having to visually compare two
 numbers or click anywhere.

 Since real buckets have both a list of associated transactions and a
 list of associated money flows, perhaps each smart bucket could have
 two separate queries and would sum the amounts together. Then you
 could still easily create simple transaction only based queries, but
 if you wanted, you could also flip to a Money Flow query tab as well.

 I see smart buckets as being really useful to combine multiple
 physical buckets you already have. For example, I could create a smart
 bucket that combines my bills into a single smart bucket, or even
 create discretionary and non-discretionary buckets. Maybe even
 first half and second half of the month expense buckets. Lots of
 possibilities here.

 All of these would require the ability to query on money flows to make
 them useful and work similar to existing buckets. If I were limited to
 transaction only queries, there are one or two I might use (sum of
 open transactions), but overall I wouldn't find the feature very
 useful. But perhaps others see usages I don't.

 -Lance


 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Stupid Question: Bucket Balance vs. Balance

[The Watkinson Family]

 What else is tripping people up?

I suppose it could be a variety of things.  I, for instance, want to  
use only one financial application.  While MoneyWell is intended to  
control cash flow, I also want to track non-cash flow accounts, such  
as loans, debts, and investments.  I'll use the term cash-flow  
account throughout to refer to an account, that if I were to use  
actual buckets, I would liquidate it to put cash in my buckets.  They  
include accounts like checking, savings, credit cards (which reduces  
the amount of money that I have to put in a bucket), and cash.

Transfers can be a big challenge to figure out how to interact with  
buckets. When transferring money between cash-flow accounts, no bucket  
should be assigned.  When transferring money from a cash-flow account  
to another account, the withdrawal should be assigned to a bucket.   
Conversely, when transferring money from a non-cash flow account to a  
cash-flow account, the deposit should be assigned to a bucket.  This  
is non-intuitive without giving the whole process some thought and is  
easily confused during execution.  Getting it wrong however, can  
easily mislead you into thinking you have more money than you actually  
have for expenses.  That's at least one of several ways to get tripped  
up.

Another way would be if you started using MoneyWell sometime in a  
given month, say,Mar, and started tracking your cash flow on 1 April,  
using the cash you had at the time by adding up all your cash-flow  
accounts, and then realizing later that you forgotten a transaction  
back in Mar.  When you go to add the transaction, you might forget to  
apply the correction to your starting cash flow amount.  This  
transaction, being before the cash flow date, will not affect bucket  
totals, but it will change cash available and account balances,  
effectively reducing the amount you should have put in the buckets.   
You could inadvertently overspend this way without realizing it.

I implemented a tool using Excel several years ago that basically used  
a bucket/envelope method and tracked all my accounts.  I found two  
calculations extraordinarily useful after using the system for nearly  
two years.

The first was the total of all my cash flow accounts minus the total  
of all buckets with positive balances (this could be calculated using  
a smart bucket if the appropriate logic were in place).  This amount  
told me how much money I had overdrawn my buckets/envelopes.  While it  
is ideal to never have to overdraw a bucket, sometimes a person might  
make an intentional choice to spend next month's money now, or it is  
near the end of the month and you buy groceries on the 31st instead of  
the 1st.  Also, folks who travel for business might have a negative  
bucket until they are reimbursed.  As long as a recovery plan is in  
place, it is not critical when a person overdraws a bucket, and a  
money flow may not be desirable.  However, the deficit has to be  
covered by other buckets or by a hidden buffer not accounted for in  
the bucket/envelope system.  If you were to overdraw a bucket, and  
then spend all the money from the other buckets, you won't have enough  
money to cover your expenses (or you'll dip into the hidden buffer).   
This number told me that I needed to reserve a certain amount of money  
to cover the expenses.  If the number was smaller than my Savings  
bucket/envelope (or another one used for reserve), no immediate  
problem.  I just needed a plan to get fixed, whether it was the next  
paycheck or the reimbursement, or whatever.  I occasionally received  
extra money that I would choose not allocate, this sometimes this  
calculation was positive.  Meaning I had more money in accounts than I  
had planned to spend.  Consequently, I called this calculation my  
Buffer.

The second was a balance checker similar to what has been exhaustively  
discussed.  This could also be implemented by users if the appropriate  
logic were added to smart buckets (in particular being able to exclude  
certain transaction types).

I don't remember if smart buckets were being added in 1.5, but in any  
case, it seems that increased smart bucket functionality has great  
potential to allow folks to double check their bucket integrity  
whenever they do arrive.  This could provide a non-intrusive solution  
for everyone.  Lance, Dave, et al, what do you think?



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[No Thirst Software] Re: Stupid Question: Bucket Balance vs. Balance

[The Watkinson Family]

Danno,

I think that there is a mathematical relationship--it's just not  
enforced by the software.  With several steps you could verify that  
your document is mathematically sound.  In that sense, I think that  
the software and your document should be trustworthy.  I'd be happy to  
enumerate the steps if you need them...

blair


On Apr 18, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Mr. Danno Sullivan wrote:


 Yes. The fact that there's not a mathematical connection between bank
 balance and bucket balance is the one thing that keeps me from using
 MoneyWell--it boils down to simply not trusting it!

 (The fact that I'm still reading this forum shows that I really would
 like to have it be my One True Solution!)

 ds

 On Apr 16, 2009, at 3:34 PM, Lance wrote:


 On Apr 16, 11:46 am, Druzyne drew.k...@gmail.com wrote:
 My suggestion to you, and others, is to only worry if the Bucket
 Balance exceeds your account balances. If the Bucket Balance is  
 less,
 and you only focus on your bucket balances, that simply means you're
 spending less money than you have available, which should be your
 goal
 anyways. So don't worry!! You're doing yourself a favor and saving!
 If
 you want to find out how much you have saved, just subtract the
 Bucket
 Balance from your account balances.


 I disagree. Ensuring your bucket balances equal your account balances
 is the money flow equivalent of reconciling your bank accounts. Sure,
 if the bank says I have more money in my account than I think I
 should, I'm happy, but that's still not a good place to be in. It
 means some mistake was made somewhere and it may come back to bite me
 eventually. Yes we should all spend less than we earn, but that  
 should
 be a conscience decision, not an artifact of mistakes we've made in
 data entry.

 I still think MoneyWell should enforce this check by default as it is
 a huge stumbling block for new users. There could be a preference
 option for turning it off if you really want to, although I have yet
 to hear a compelling case for why you'd intentionally let your  
 account
 balances diverge from your bucket balances.

 -Lance





 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Stupid Question: Bucket Balance vs. Balance

[The Watkinson Family]

 into a black hole. By not accounting for my savings, I am taking on
 the risk of losing some of my savings without intending to, which I
 realize is not for everyone. This is an automatic compensation for
 errors, however, and I'm making the risky assumption that screw-ups
 are equal-opportunity, and I'll add about as much as I take out. Yet I
 set myself up to spend a bit less than I make, so this buffer is
 always growing, and it would take a rather magnificent error to wipe
 out my savings. I consider myself very good about measuring twice and
 cutting once, though.

Drew,

Thanks for your continued discussion.  I did have a question How  
does your buffer keep growing?  Is it because you create some deposits  
and don't assign them to buckets?  It seems like the buffer should  
remain relatively static, assuming errors are equal opportunity, or  
not made at all, unless somehow you intentionally bring money in to  
your cash-flow accounts that you don't make available to a bucket.

Even if you leave some of the money in an income bucket, it's still  
accounted for--in fact this is how I ensure I have a buffer--I just  
allocate to my expense buckets less than I bring in each month.  How  
do you ensure that your buffer grows?

Thanks!

blair

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[No Thirst Software] Re: How can I easily see my current net worth?

[The Watkinson Family]

Ben,

You've got the steps down correctly.  Currently there is not a quicker  
way.  Kevin has promised better tools for net worth calculations in  
future iterations.  Also, this is something that could probably be  
calculated using smart buckets when MoneyWell's smart bucket  
functionality is expanded.

Grace to you,
Blair

On Apr 18, 2009, at 4:41 PM, Ben wrote:


 When I am trying to find my current net worth (i.e. the current
 balance of all my accounts), do I really have to select all accounts,
 select the smart folder all transactions and deselect any month I
 might have selected - and then look at the bottom of the window? What
 am I missing?

 Thank you.

 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Stupid Question: Bucket Balance vs. Balance

[The Watkinson Family]

Lance,

My hope is that smart buckets would allow you to display either bucket  
balance or the number of transactions (only the latter is displayed  
now).

A smart bucket which included all reconciled, cleared, open, and  
pending transactions from my selected cash-flow accounts will reflect  
the total projected balance of all my accounts at the end of the month  
(based on future pending transaction entered).  If my document is  
balanced, this bucket should also reflect the same value that is  
depicted at the bottom of the screen buckets balance.

Would it need to be anything more complicated than this? Or is there  
something I'm missing?

Alternatively, if the smart bucket were to include all transactions  
from cash-flow accounts that weren't assigned to buckets as well as  
non-cash flow account transactions that are assigned to a bucket, a  
balanced document would have a $0 smart bucket total -- this method  
won't detect errors in initial setup, but it should detect accrued  
errors since the initial cash flow was established.  At least, I think  
i should.

Blair

On Apr 18, 2009, at 10:53 PM, Lance wrote:


 On Apr 18, 1:18 pm, The Watkinson Family thewatkins...@mac.com
 wrote:

 Was there another situation where you would want to query  money  
 flows?


 Hey Blair,

 Maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting in an earlier post. How
 do you propose we could use smart buckets to display the difference
 between account balances and bucket balances if we don't have the
 ability to query money flows?

 -Lance
 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Stupid Question: Bucket Balance vs. Balance

[The Watkinson Family]

If all transactions have been assigned to buckets, if you do not have  
any transfers (transfers require special consideration), and you do  
not have any Future Pending transactions, then the problem must be  
with your cash flow.  You can add up all the money that you had in  
your buckets vs the money that you had in accounts on the day that you  
started tracking cash flow (always the beginning of the month).  These  
two sums will most likely differ by 59 cents.

To fix the difference adjust your Initial Cash Flow amount by 59 cents  
(Edit - Change Cash Flow Start Date, change the Amount field).

Blair

On Apr 15, 2009, at 10:12 PM, Dave wrote:


 I know it's not the cash account. And, I have gone through all my
 transactions and all of them are assigned to a bucket, what would
 reflect properly? And how would I find that.

 Lastly, what would indicate that I made a mistake on my starting cash
 flow?

 Thanks!

 On Apr 15, 10:55 pm, Dave oneblessed...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is there a good way to track which of those it could be?

 Thanks!





 Dave,

 Usually these are caused by transaction that has not been assigned
 properly to a bucket or a starting cash flow amount that didn't
 exactly match with your total account balances at that time.  
 Sometimes
 this has to do with your cash account.

 Peace,

 Kevin Hoctor
 ke...@nothirst.com
 No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.comhttp:// 
 kevinhoctor.blogspot.com
 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Starting cash flow balance when you have credit cards you pay in full every month

[The Watkinson Family]

 n my case, I actually need to include the credit card balances in my
 starting cash flow balance. This effectively negates part of my
 checking account as those funds are reserved for future credit card
 payments and should not be available for spending.

 In addition, when I download my transactions and see the credit card
 payment, I do NOT assign it to a bucket on either side and therefore
 have no need for a Debt Repayment bucket (since I track my credit
 card accounts in MoneyWell).

 For anyone else in this same situation, did you handle it the same
 way?

Lance,

I do it exactly the same.  When I first set everything up, I decided  
which accounts would be my cash flow.  For me, it was a Checking  
account, Credit Card, Savings account, and two Cash Accounts.  I  
assigned each starting balance to an income bucket which effectively  
reduced my cash available by my outstanding balance on the credit card.

I have many other accounts--Loans to businesses, IRAs, ESAs, Home  
mortgage, Money Market account that I do not treat as cash flow, but  
that I nonetheless track in MoneyWell.

All that said, I want to be very certain that the accounts I listed  
above (Checking, Credit, Savings, and Cash) equal the total money  
assigned to buckets (income and expense).  I've found it relatively  
non-intuitive to do that--in the past that's resulted in me having to  
run a calculator, spreadsheet, or the spotlight--it's been so tedious  
that I don't always check it now.  But, I've given it some thought and  
ran some tests, and I came up with some simple steps that might get it  
every time...

Hide Future Pending Transactions
In MoneyWell, Future Pending transactions only affect bucket totals  
when you are Showing Future Pending Transactions (regardless of how  
many pending transactions are actually visible).  Future Pending  
Transactions affect bucket totals, but they obviously do not affect  
account totals.  Hiding Future Pending Transactions ensures that the  
buckets only include Cleared, Open, and Reconciled Transactions
Select the All Transactions smart bucket
Select the Cash Flow accounts
Now select all non-pending transactions
The sum and buckets balance values at the bottom of the page  
should be equal if all transactions are assigned to buckets and  
transfers are properly assigned
The sum value is the total of all the transactions, which is also  
the total of the selected accounts
The buckets balance value is the total of all bucket values  
(Cleared, Open, and Reconciled since the Pending transactions aren't  
included)

Does anyone have a simpler way?

It seems like an option to designate certain accounts as Cash Flow  
could allow this process be almost automatic if some logic were added  
to compare these totals automatically without hiding the Pending  
transactions and selecting transactions all the others for the purpose  
of the calculation.

 Thanks,
 Lance

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[No Thirst Software] Re: Usage model and meaning of Open/Cleared/Reconciled/Pending status?

[The Watkinson Family]

 Here's a simplified example to clarify what I'm talking about:
 - I deposit a $1000 bonus check into my checking account, but mark it
 as bucket optional so it doesn't affect my cash flow (and artificially
 inflate my income graphs)
 - At this point my checking account balance is larger than my bucket
 balance as my buckets are not accounting for everything
 - I transfer $600 of this bonus into a savings account to earn
 interest
 - A few months later I decide to transfer the remainder of my bonus to
 savings but I mistakenly transfer $500 thinking that is what was left
 - I now have a shortfall of $100 in my checking account relative to my
 bucket balances but I don't know it
 - I respect my bucket balances yet I manage to drain my checking
 account and get an overdraft fee
 - I go back and try to figure out where I went wrong, but since the
 daily balance reported by MoneyWell never matched my bank statements
 to begin with, I have no sync points I can start out to see where I
 started diverging.

Lance,

While I do agree that there is little additional utility in the  
cleared flag, I think that your example is a little artificial.  By  
depositing a bonus check and not assigning it to a bucket, you are  
creating for yourself a problem.  If you want to remain synchronized  
you have to obey certain rules:

1) Setup MoneyWell correctly by ensuring that cash available in  
buckets equals cash available in accounts
2) Appropriately assign all transactions to buckets
3) Appropriately assign all transfers to buckets

If you break any of the rules, then you cannot count on buckets to  
keep you out of trouble.  If you obey the rules, then you know that  
when you go out and spend money and you spend less than you have in  
one of your buckets, you are guaranteed to have the cash available.   
However, these rules do not help you in knowing where the money is,  
and it is still possible to overdraft your account without violating  
the rules or creating artificial scenarios.

If you have a relatively simple setup that just involves a checking  
account, then it would be relatively difficult to overdraft the  
checking account, since at all times the total money in the checking  
account equals the total money in buckets.  However, add in a credit  
card, a savings account like Druzyne suggested earlier, a few cash  
accounts and the money that is available to you in buckets is  
scattered across several accounts.  In this case, it is still true  
that you have the money available when you spend from a bucket, but  
now when you spend, you have to be somewhat aware of your account  
balances.  Some banks allow you to overdraft from one account to  
another.  If this is your case, you can spend freely knowing that  
there is a pipe running between your accounts, and when you overdraft  
one, the money comes from another.

This is why it is important to track Open transactions.  If you write  
a check at Church and one at the Grocery store, how can you possibly  
know that the money is available in your checking account?  The  
buckets tell you that the money is available, but it is possible that  
the money is in your Savings account, not your Checking.

Consider this:
Bucket total$1000
Checking$500
Savings $800
Credit Card ($300)

In this case, your cash available equals your bucket total.  You could  
spend whatever you wanted to up to your bucket total and have the  
money available.  You write a $100 check at church, and a $300 check  
at the grocery store.  If you don't take note of these transactions as  
Open, and if MoneyWell didn't account for them in your checking  
account balance, you wouldn't know that you would overdraft your  
account when you pay your credit card bill when these checks  
eventually post.

My opinion on the Cleared flag?  First, I do not download transactions  
(this currently is the primary use of the Cleared flag-mark  
transactions as downloaded)--for me, it creates a mess and I have had  
to spend more time fixing the transactions than I would have if I had  
just entered them manually.  Therefore, I flag transactions as Cleared  
after they have posted to the account. In this way, I differentiate  
between Open and Cleared transactions.  Open transactions are  
primarily checks or other transactions I have made but there is a  
delay in posting

I think that a Cleared total at the bottom of the page would be more  
useful than an Open+Cleared+Reconciled total (Reconciled Transactions  
are by definition also Cleared).  This way, I can write a check and  
see that my checking balance has been appropriately reduced in the top  
left, but also verify that my account matches what my bank is  
reporting on a daily basis.

MoneyWell is used in a variety of ways by different people.  I still  
reconcile my accounts once a month, so sometimes I let small errors go  
until the statement comes--it's easier than trying to sift through  
$1.00 pre-approval 

[No Thirst Software] Re: Income Allocation Question (Redux)

[The Watkinson Family]

Kevin,

Is there a way then to do manual money flows without throwing out the  
allocate income feature?  Has the behavior always been like this?  I  
hadn't noticed it before, but since I'm taking a more proactive  
approach to our money (budget changes each month based on  
circumstances, etc), I think that it will be much more common for  
things to be changing.  If a manual money flow overrides or  
contributes to the Allocate Income amount, I think that doing manual  
money flows is probably all I be doing.

When the allocate income panel pops up, it shows a bunch of values  
that will be added to the buckets... are these the real values that  
will be added to the buckets, or are the going to be adjusted by other  
money flows that have been added during the month?  How do I know what  
is really going to be added when I allocate income?

Thanks for your time!

Blair

On Apr 2, 2009, at 3:05 PM, Kevin Hoctor wrote:


 On Apr 2, 2009, at 12:19 PM, Jay wrote:

 I have a clearer example... I have a bucket for monthly parking
 expenses.  Generally, I allocate $175 a month and write a check that
 drains that bucket.

 One month, I had an extra parking-related expense for $100.  I
 assigned that transaction to the Parking bucket (which left the
 balance at -$100).  It was a work-related expense, so I got  
 reimbursed
 as part of my pay during the next month.  I manually moved $100 from
 my Salary bucket to the Parking bucket to zero out that expense.
 Then, when I went to allocate my income, MoneyWell calculated that it
 only needed to put $75 into the Parking bucket.

 My question is: Did I use this software incorrectly? I expected MW to
 allocate $175 for Parking since the bucket was at $0 and not include
 that other transfer.

 Thanks for clearing this up.


 Hi Jay,

 You did it all correctly but MoneyWell doesn't see the difference
 between a manual money flow and a money flow created via the Allocate
 Income panel right now so it only added $75. A future version will be
 more intelligent about this process. Thanks.

 Peace,

 Kevin Hoctor
 ke...@nothirst.com
 No Thirst Software LLC
 http://nothirst.com
 http://kevinhoctor.blogspot.com


 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Bucket balance is greater than Account balance

[The Watkinson Family]

Kevin and Daniel,

One thing that I didn't like about the export and import is that the  
export and import functions aren't fully reversible (at least not when  
I did this a few months ago since Jan 1).

It may be pretty obscure, but I had been using Alt + Enter in order to  
use multiple lines in my memos.  If I remember right, any data that  
wasn't on the first line was lost.  I think that I also had problems  
with splits, but I could be remembering incorrectly.

Anyway, Daniel, when starting a new, I would leave the Initial Cash  
Flow at 0.  Then, I would assign each of my accounts' Starting  
Balances to an Income bucket.  This will ensure that you don't have  
any more money in your buckets than you actually have in your  
account.  I'll expand on your illustration on how I might setup your  
accounts.

Personal Checking   $500
Credit Card $0
Business Checking   $500
Cash$0
---
Personal Savings$500

The - above is actually an account name.  I  
named it that way in my document to serve as a divider between two  
different types of accounts.  The accounts above the line are my cash  
accounts.  They are accounts from which I would put money into  
envelopes and spend money from envelopes if I were using an envelope  
system.  The accounts below the line include savings, investments,  
loans, etc.  These are both assets and liabilities that I'd like to  
track, but that I do not use for cash flow.  The money in Personal  
Savings, or a Mortgage, or a car loan or Retirement Account would not  
be used to fund my groceries bucket.  These types of accounts I put  
below the dashed line.

Now, when assigning the starting balance for any account above the  
line, I assign it to an income bucket.  If you do that in this case,  
you'll have $1000 in the Income bucket.  On the other hand, for any  
account below the line, you do not assign the Starting Balance to an  
Income bucket.

Now, observe the following rules:
Whenever you spend money or deposit money from/into an account above  
the line, you assign the transfer to a bucket (again, this is just  
like spending money from your envelopes).
Whenever you spend money or deposit money directly from/into an  
account below the line, you do not assign the transfer to a bucket.
When you transfer money between accounts and you do not cross the  
dashed line, you do not assign the transfer to a bucket (this is just  
moving around).
When you cross the dashed line with a transfer, assign the transfer on  
the account on the side of the dashed line to a bucket.  Two examples  
offered below:
Assume you are investing money in your Savings account from your  
Personal Checking account.  This is treated as an expense, even  
though the money remains yours.  It's as if you took money from your  
Savings envelope and walked down to the bank and put it in a Savings  
account.  You would need to deduct the money from the envelope.  A  
transfer has two sides--the withdrawal side and the transfer side.   
You can toggle between them in MoneyWell with the Show Matching  
button.  In this scenario, you would assign the transfer that's in the  
account above the line to a bucket--in other words, assign the  
withdrawal from Personal Checking to the expense bucket Savings.   
This will decrease the bucket amount as we decrease the amount we have  
in Personal Checking.
Now, assume you are moving money from Savings to your Personal  
Checking account so that you can pay for Emergency Car Repairs.  This  
is as if you went to the bank and withdrew money from Savings to put  
into your Emergency envelope.  Again, following the general rule  
above, you'll assign the transaction that's in the account above the  
line to a bucket.  In this case, the transaction in  Personal Checking  
is a deposit.  We'll assign that deposit to your Emergency bucket,  
thus increasing the bucket as we increase the amount in Checking.

If you setup MoneyWell the way I suggested above, and your account  
balances are in fact accurate, and you assign the Start Date  
correctly, and follow the four rules above (which, hopefully, are  
fairly intuitive if you understand the types of accounts above and  
below the line), the total money you have in your cash accounts will  
always equal the total money in your buckets.

Please let me know if something doesn't make sense.

Grace to you,
Blair Watkinson

On Mar 26, 2009, at 4:20 PM, Kevin Hoctor wrote:


 On Mar 26, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Daniel wrote:

 Thanks to Lance,Blair, Trish, and Kevin for your responses.  I tried
 Trish's approach with the transfers.  It helped, but then created a
 new negative balance in my credit card account (which really is  
 0).  I
 appreciate Lance's comments but they really don't apply as I never  
 use
 the download feature (I did once, but found that I wanted to go
 through each item anyway and check for duplicates 

[No Thirst Software] Re: Should paychecks be assigned buckets?

[The Watkinson Family]

Tony,

I wouldn't recommend having unassigned transactions, though if you use  
it for income it won't create anything other than an accounting problem.

Imagine the following envelope scenario.  When you receive your  
paycheck, you divide all of your money between envelopes.  When you  
don't leave something unassigned in MoneyWell, it's like sticking  
money under the mattress and not making it available to your  
envelopes.  While this can create a buffer for you and help keep you  
out of trouble with cash flow, it also makes it difficult to know how  
much money you actually have to spend.  You could also forget about  
it, since it's not in your envelopes, and you may need it but not  
realize you have the money.

That's the basic effect of not assigning all your income to buckets.   
Your checking account will report that you have more money that you  
actually have divided between all your buckets.

The converse problem is even worse--spending money without assigning  
it to a bucket.  If you have all you money divided between envelopes,  
but then you spend money without assigning it to a bucket (or without  
removing it from an envelope), you have reduced the amount of money  
that you have, but not changed how much you say you have in  
envelopes.  The net effect of this is that if you were to spend all  
your money from the envelopes, you would overdraft your checking  
account.

For this reason, I assign all transactions to a bucket.  I have a  
bonus income bucket, and I have a bank fees bucket in which I put my  
interest.

There are some situations that you would not assign a transaction to a  
bucket (and it would also not mess up your cash flow as I described  
above), but I think that it's beyond the scope of your question...

Grace to you,
Blair Watkinson

On Mar 25, 2009, at 8:59 PM, Tony wrote:


 When depositing paychecks, bonuses, interest, etc, into a checking
 account, should a bucket be assigned to them?  I don't want to
 automatically send them to the salary bucket.  If I don't assign them
 a bucket, then they show up as Unassigned.  Is having unassigned items
 not good practice?  I found I can also right click and make the bucket
 optional for these kinds of transactions.  What are others doing and/
 or what is recommended?  Thanks

 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Newbie Question: Input on Payday

[The Watkinson Family]

Scott,

Masochism or not, it's been important to me track all my expenses,  
deductions, and allotments.

For this reason, I track all of these with MoneyWell.  Here's how I do  
it.

I have a monthly income, that although is a single deposit, it has  
several sources and different parts are taxed differently.

Additionally, I have multiple deductions.

Because of this, I need to both split deposits as well as expenses on  
a single transaction.

Your situation may be a little less complex if you don't have to track  
multiple kinds of income, but let me provide an example and you should  
be able to simplify as necessary.

Suppose you have your Base Salary ($4,000), a Bonus ($1,000) and a  
Housing Allowance ($1,500).  Gross income is $6,500.

You have several deductions: Federal Taxes ($500), Social Security  
($200), Medicare ($100), and State Taxes ($300), Charity ($100) and  
Investments ($100) and Insurance ($200).

Therefore, your net income is $5,000.  Here's how you can account for  
all of this in MoneyWell.  I will not go into assigning each split  
into buckets, but will assume that you have the appropriate buckets  
created.

First, create a transaction of $6,500.  Then, split the transaction  
according to your income sources and assign each split item to its  
appropriate income bucket.

Now, adjust your split total to $5,000.  This will give you negative  
$1,500 to work with.  You should be able to add each deduction as a  
split and assign it to it's appropriate bucket.

When you reconcile your account, you will see a single transaction of  
$5,000 which will correspond with your bank statement.  Additionally,  
if necessary, you can assign the transactions as transfers (as in the  
case of your investments) and you would be able to track the amount  
you have deposited into an investment or savings account if you allot  
that from your income.

Finally, when you are getting ready to Allocate Income, you can either  
use the automatic Combined Income tool by selecting your multiple  
income buckets to be included in the Combined Income, or you can  
manually combine the income by dragging the buckets to a Combined  
Income you have created yourself.

I hope this helps.

Grace to you,
Blair Watkinson


On Mar 22, 2009, at 4:51 PM, Scott H wrote:


 Thank you very much for your reply, Tanja.

 Why do I want to track gross and tax withholding?  I guess it's just
 habit and curiosity.  You're right; it doesn't have any impact on
 day-to-day spending, but in the past I've always tracked it.

 For reasons I don't need to explain to anyone here, I'm sure, I have
 no desire to use the more famous Mac personal finance program which
 can probably track this easily.  I guess I'm thinking if I do this,
 plus use that tax related checkbox that MoneyWell is going to spit
 out some great reports that will be really helpful at tax time.  Other
 than that, I guess I'm just masochistic wanting to see how much money
 has been sucked out of my pay, (usually) never to be seen again!

 Thanks,

 Scott
 

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[No Thirst Software] Re: split transaction w/ cash

[The Watkinson Family]

I think that you may have misunderstood...

Creating the deposit transaction as Kevin suggested isn't a fake  
transaction.  You said that your original purchase was on the debit  
card.  I'll assume that you spent $200 on the 10th of the months and  
were eventually credited back $57.75 on the 12th.

When you receive your bank statement, or you see your statement on- 
line, you should see a charge for $200 on the 10th.

Even if the store credited the money back to your credit card, this  
original transaction wouldn't change.  You would have a credit on the  
12th for $57.75 (this credit you should assign to your clothing bucket  
which will reduce the amount MoneyWell shows you spent for clothing).

In the example above (which is a little different from yours), you  
wouldn't go back and change the original transaction to $142.75.   
While the net change in your account is the same, that $142.75  
wouldn't match any receipts that you have, and it wouldn't match any  
bank records.  Instead, you should have two transactions.  One on the  
10th for $200 and one on the 12th for ($57.75), both assigned to the  
clothing bucket.

In the same way, since you actually received the $57.75 in cash, you  
would still have two transactions, it's just that the second one is  
credited to your cash account rather the checking/debit account (but  
both are assigned to your clothing bucket).  While you could go back  
and edit the original transaction, and make a split from the $200 into  
two $142.25 for clothing and $57.75 transfered to cash, this could  
make life complicated.  For one thing, you don't have any receipts  
that show $142.75.  Instead, you have a receipt for the first  
transaction of $200, and a second receipt for the second transaction  
of $57.75.

A second reason your approach could get complicated is because it  
doesn't work consistently.  Consider the situation where you tend to  
return things a lot.  It's much more complicated to go back and  
continually edit the original transactions.  Instead, you would want  
to actually show how the money came in to your hands--as a credit back  
from the store a few days later from the clothing that you returned.

A third reason would be if you waited a long time after your original  
transaction to return the item.  In this scenario,  you will have  
already likely reconciled the original transaction.  Would you want to  
edit a reconciled transaction?  I wouldn't think so.  Instead, if you  
receive the money back a month later on the 15th, you would leave the  
Mar 10th transaction alone and then show a deposit into your cash  
account on April 15th.  Also, this would show that you actually  
overspent your clothing in Mar, and had a change of heart and received  
your credit in April.

You could probably take whatever approach you wanted to.  I think that  
what Kevin initially described and what I have tried to explain is  
more common in the banking/accounting world and would ensure  
consistency between your records, the bank's records, and the store's  
records.  Creating the second transaction isn't creating a fake  
transaction--it's simply showing a transaction a few days after the  
original purchase where the store gave you money in exchange for  
returned merchandise.

How you suggested reconciling the account below with MoneyWell or  
Quicken will probably not cause your financial documents to get out of  
whack, but it may be difficult a few weeks from now to understand what  
actually happened, especially if you were to try and investigate using  
bank records or receipts.  I have no doubt it makes sense now, but  
since it doesn't actually match the documents you have, it could be  
difficult later on.

Anyway, the choice is really up to you whether you'd want to go with  
what is more of a standard (which I'd really recommend) or take a  
different approach that you're comfortable with.

Grace to you,
Blair

On Mar 21, 2009, at 5:44 AM, ciara belle wrote:


 nope sorry dont want to start creating 'fake' transactions... sigh
 then when i look at a month from now i will be like what? where'd that
 come from...
 the original transaction is already removed - and reconciled... in the
 q program i would have just added a line for misc -- so i guess i will
 just do that :)  also - if i Dont change the original split it looks
 like i spent 57.75 MORE in that bucket (for which i returned items)
 than i actually did.

 ml


 On Mar 20, 5:08 pm, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote:
 On Mar 20, 2009, at 3:36 PM, ciara belle wrote:

 HI there;

 question for ya...

 I spent around 200 at a store but some of the items didnt fit --
 so i brought them back - 57.75... but the store doesnt credit back  
 to
 the debit card - they give back cash... so i need to change that
 original transaction split to show i have that amount in cash now...

 how do i do this? it has not yet been allotted...
 thanks

 I wouldn't touch the original transaction 

[No Thirst Software] Re: Two people using Moneywell.

[The Watkinson Family]

Fred,

While I haven't tried this with a recent version, the following was  
true for the 1.4 version.  If you do try to open the document when it  
is already open on another computer, the document is corrupted, and  
you'll have to roll back to a previous back-up, so it is very  
important that you deconflict with one another and close the file  
before someone else opens it.  I had played around with an apple  
script that would create a lock file in the directory and prevent a  
second user from opening the file, but I didn't get very far with it  
before I had to devote my time to other things.

Grace to you,
Blair Watkinson

On Mar 18, 2009, at 7:47 PM, Frederick Yocum wrote:


 Thanks for the prompt response.

 Fred

 On Mar 18, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Kevin Hoctor wrote:


 There's no way of locking the document so you'll just have to make
 sure only one of you is in at once.

 Peace,

 Kevin Hoctor
 No Thirst Software LLC
 http://nothirst.com

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Fred D theyo...@dejazzd.com wrote:


 I noted somewhere on the site that having two copies of Moneywell
 with
 the same license was possible, good, my wife and I can use Moneywell
 on our separate computers. It would be good for us to be able to
 access the same account data so that we can add entries or check on
 our 'buckets'.

 I guess I can put the data on a shared drive. Our computers live in
 different areas of the house and often we may well want to open
 Moneywell at the same time. We may not know whether the other is
 trying open the account data file. Is this a problem?

 Does Moneywell have a way of locking the data file one of us is
 working in it?

 Cheers






 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Unassigned to Assigned Transactions not going away

[The Watkinson Family]

 hey, i resemble that comment! ;)  It seems to me to be a great way to
 see what transactions I haven't assigned to a bucket (this is after
 downloading new transactions that need to be assigned)  Not sure I
 understand what you mean by flip around too much, but it seems to be a
 good way to update the info and would love to know if there is a
 better/more effective way to do it.

You can highlight multiple transactions (Shift or Cmd select or use  
arrow keys) and assign them all to the same bucket at once, it that  
helps.  What Kevin was referring to was flipping back and forth  
between buckets.  As soon as you assigned the transaction to the Auto  
bucket, the transaction would disappear, even if you still wanted to  
put in a memo or other information. You'd have to track the  
transaction down to finish updating it.

Grace to you,
Blair

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[No Thirst Software] Re: Running Balances in Register View

[The Watkinson Family]

Hi Mark!

 In reality, all I want to see is how a big payment will affect my
 balance, and if I need to move money from my savings, as my checking
 account pays no interest.


The way that you want to use MoneyWell is exactly how I've been using  
it, which is only slightly different from how the videos suggest the  
setup.

First, you have to decide which accounts you want to use to fund  
your spending plan.  These accounts will be the primary accounts from  
which you will purchase things you plan for in your monthly plan.   
Generally, they will include, 1 or more checking accounts, 1 or more  
cash accounts, and 1 or more credit cards.  I also include a savings  
account in order to do exactly what you're saying.  But this list  
should not include car loans, home mortgages, investment accounts that  
you pay into or pay down over time (you can track these with  
MoneyWell, but don't treat them as an account that funds your spending  
plan).  Personally, I choose to list these spending plan accounts  
first in my account list, then I have created a bogus Cash account  
with a name that is a series of dashes.  My non-spending plan accounts  
are below this artificial line I have created.  It helps me to  
remember when I need to assign a bucket and when I shouldn't.

When you first start using MoneyWell, you'll want to ensure that your  
starting amount in your Income bucket is the sum of these accounts.   
There are two ways to do this.

1) Add up the balances of each of the above accounts, and enter this  
value as the Cash Flow Start Amount (Edit-Change Cash Flow Start Date)

- or -
2) When setting the starting balances for each of these accounts,  
assign the starting balance to your desired income bucket.

Doing this will establish the equality:
Sum of cash in buckets = Sum of cash in accounts

Now, you follow three rules:
1) Whenever you spend/deposit money from/into one of your spending  
plan accounts, you'll assign the transaction to a bucket.
2)  Whenever you transfer money to/from one of the accounts to an  
account that isn't in this group, you'll assign the transaction to a  
bucket.
3)  Whenever you transfer money between accounts in this group, you  
will not assign the transaction to a group.

Following these three rules preserves the equality expressed above.

 So... lets say my checking balance today is $3,000 and I get paid on
 the 14th and my Amex bill is on due on the 12th and a choose to pay
 $2,500, I want to see the immediate effect in the register. I can see
 that my effective running balance is $500 as at the 12th. If at any
 time between now and then, my value balance for the 12th goes below
 $0, I can transfer the difference from my savings on that day. However
 that may never happen, it may depend on the size of my phone bill, or
 Con Ed bill which cannot be predicted month in advance by a bucket.

Here's the problem.  If you never exceed your bucket balance for that  
month, use of MoneyWell assures that you have the money to pay for the  
expense.  However, because you have split a significant portion of  
your spending plan cash into an account other than checking, it's  
possible that much of your monthly expenses could be hidden in  
savings, not checking.

Ideally, MoneyWell would include a visual aid that shows a projected  
future balance of selected accounts or buckets over time to help you  
identify trouble areas.

Nonetheless, using MoneyWell with today's features, you can do what  
you want, if you schedule all your transactions when you become aware  
of them.  By adjusting the future pending transaction period so that  
you can see all of the scheduled transactions, you can then  
individually select each transaction and cycle through them using the  
down arrow key, watching the bottom of the screen for a negative  
value.  This approach is certainly less than ideal, but it does allow  
you to identify trouble areas.

Grace to you,
Blair

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[No Thirst Software] Re: A few more questions

[The Watkinson Family]

 From what it sounds like to me, you don't need software to help  
control your spending.  How much is the investment of time in money  
software (learning and maintaining) actually worth?  The only other  
thing to look at is the proportion of your savings for short and long  
term goals--are you saving enough and is it being saved the right way  
(college and retirement savings using the most advantageous incentives/ 
tax breaks for your situation).

It seems like you are doing really well!

Blair


On Feb 3, 2009, at 10:33 PM, lterenzi wrote:


 Don't mind me... I have to remember to not try and tackle these things
 after a long day at work. Let me revisit it again  after some rest.
 Thanks again foir the help!

 On Feb 3, 9:05 pm, lterenzi ltere...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks for the detailed response you have given me (and many  
 others!).

 I am getting to the point where I am ready to bail on this and return
 to my normal life and try again some other day. We save plenty of our
 check, have no real debts anymore, a decent emergency fund, we don't
 use (or even have) credit cards...

 We pay our bills, slide everything else over to savings, keep a bit  
 in
 checking for daily expenses. If we need a bit more I transfer over.  
 We
 don't buy or spend impulsively and we certainly do not splurge  
 without
 all of our bills and commitments having been met.

 I have spent so much time just trying to figure this out instead of
 doing other things that don't frustrate the heck out of me...

 Maybe revisiting this down the road would be best for me.

 On Feb 4, 7:51 pm, The Watkinson Family thewatkins...@mac.com  
 wrote:

 Hello!

 I thought I'd offer a response since no one else has...  I've been
 teaching a financial class over the last few weeks, and one of the
 important lessons I've learned is that there is no perfect month.
 Every month is different, with different priorities, challenges and
 expenses.  Therefore, I've learned that it is important to look at  
 the
 finances every month, before I receive any money and spend every
 dollar on paper, before the month even begins.  Every dollar has a
 name--that's the exercise you're doing with the Monthly Spending  
 Plan
 by assigning all of your income to buckets.  So, I've started to  
 have
 a monthly discussion with my wife about the finances--just 15  
 minutes
 or so, just to make sure were still on track and that I haven't
 overlooked any of the needs that are on the horizon.  It also  
 gives us
 a chance to reassess the previous month's spending pattern as well.

 Regarding your concern about things popping up  There will  
 always
 be these things, and just like there is no perfect month, there is  
 no
 perfect plan.  Therefore, it might be a good idea to allocate a  
 small
 portion toward a bucket called Miscellaneous or as one person puts  
 it,
 Blow Money.  This will allow for those unexpected trips to a fast  
 food
 restaurant without ruining your plan.  Of course, you'll want to  
 keep
 this amount relatively small, consistent with your income, so that
 it's not a vacuum for money.

 Also, you'll want to build up an emergency fund.  Initially, save  
 for
 a $1,000 emergency fund.  This will help keep you from having to go
 into debt to pay for bona fide emergencies.  After you have this
 emergency fund, aggressively pay off your debt using a snowball-
 method, then, once you have everything paid off except your  
 mortgage,
 come back and build up your emergency fund to 3-6 months of you
 expenses.  The emergency fund will help keep emergencies from  
 breaking
 your spending plan and to give your family some security, and give  
 you
 freedom to change jobs or seek out new opportunities, if  
 appropriate.

 That being said, it is important to have a bucket for everything.
 Now, you might have general buckets, like Recreation, which could
 include a whole bunch of things from eating out, to movies,  
 vacations,
 etc.  And Auto, which includes fuel, service, insurance,  
 registration
  property taxes.  Though I might suggest including the car  
 payment in
 your debt reduction bucket instead of Auto.  If you don't have a
 bucket for everything, then you'll have some expenses that are  
 outside
 of your plan, and you won't be able to do all that you want to do  
 with
 your money.

 Regarding your specific question about day care.  I'm assuming that
 since you say reimbursed that you have to front the money yourself
 for day care, and then your employer pays you back at a later date  
 for
 the money that you spent.  Based on this fact, and that you are not
 sure whether or not you will use the program as you receive your
 paycheck, I'd recommend that you allocate the average cost of  
 daycare
 expenses in every paycheck you receive.  The money will grow in the
 bucket paycheck to paycheck until you need it.

 Here's how it would work:  Suppose that the 4-weeks of day care  
 costs
 $1,000.  Suppose also that you earn

[No Thirst Software] Re: A few more questions

[The Watkinson Family]

Hello!

I thought I'd offer a response since no one else has...  I've been  
teaching a financial class over the last few weeks, and one of the  
important lessons I've learned is that there is no perfect month.   
Every month is different, with different priorities, challenges and  
expenses.  Therefore, I've learned that it is important to look at the  
finances every month, before I receive any money and spend every  
dollar on paper, before the month even begins.  Every dollar has a  
name--that's the exercise you're doing with the Monthly Spending Plan  
by assigning all of your income to buckets.  So, I've started to have  
a monthly discussion with my wife about the finances--just 15 minutes  
or so, just to make sure were still on track and that I haven't  
overlooked any of the needs that are on the horizon.  It also gives us  
a chance to reassess the previous month's spending pattern as well.

Regarding your concern about things popping up  There will always  
be these things, and just like there is no perfect month, there is no  
perfect plan.  Therefore, it might be a good idea to allocate a small  
portion toward a bucket called Miscellaneous or as one person puts it,  
Blow Money.  This will allow for those unexpected trips to a fast food  
restaurant without ruining your plan.  Of course, you'll want to keep  
this amount relatively small, consistent with your income, so that  
it's not a vacuum for money.

Also, you'll want to build up an emergency fund.  Initially, save for  
a $1,000 emergency fund.  This will help keep you from having to go  
into debt to pay for bona fide emergencies.  After you have this  
emergency fund, aggressively pay off your debt using a snowball- 
method, then, once you have everything paid off except your mortgage,  
come back and build up your emergency fund to 3-6 months of you  
expenses.  The emergency fund will help keep emergencies from breaking  
your spending plan and to give your family some security, and give you  
freedom to change jobs or seek out new opportunities, if appropriate.

That being said, it is important to have a bucket for everything.   
Now, you might have general buckets, like Recreation, which could  
include a whole bunch of things from eating out, to movies, vacations,  
etc.  And Auto, which includes fuel, service, insurance, registration  
 property taxes.  Though I might suggest including the car payment in  
your debt reduction bucket instead of Auto.  If you don't have a  
bucket for everything, then you'll have some expenses that are outside  
of your plan, and you won't be able to do all that you want to do with  
your money.

Regarding your specific question about day care.  I'm assuming that  
since you say reimbursed that you have to front the money yourself  
for day care, and then your employer pays you back at a later date for  
the money that you spent.  Based on this fact, and that you are not  
sure whether or not you will use the program as you receive your  
paycheck, I'd recommend that you allocate the average cost of daycare  
expenses in every paycheck you receive.  The money will grow in the  
bucket paycheck to paycheck until you need it.

Here's how it would work:  Suppose that the 4-weeks of day care costs  
$1,000.  Suppose also that you earn a paycheck every month for  
$5,000.  Since you have to pay for day care approximately once every  
three months, set aside $335 every paycheck, then after your third  
paycheck, you'll have $1,005 saved up.  At this point, you can turn  
off the allocation to your day care plan and put the money somewhere  
else.

If you use day care, great!  You have the money saved up in your  
checking account, and you can pay for the full cost.  Then, when your  
employer reimburses you, make the deposit into your account and put it  
in your day care expense bucket.  This money will just sit in that  
bucket until you need it next time.

If you don't use day care, that works great, too!  Just leave the  
money you have saved up until the next time that you do.

You need to save the $335 initially to be sure that you have the money  
and you don't have to put day care on the credit card, however, once  
you have saved up for it once, since your employer reimburses you when  
you pay for daycare, you can use that $335 for some other purpose.

Hope this is helpful!

Grace to you,
Blair

On Feb 2, 2009, at 7:22 PM, lterenzi wrote:


 My daughter is in a year round school program. She goes for 9weeks and
 is off for 3 to 4 year round. On some of those off weeks she goes to a
 day camp. Can I create a bucket for this and just turn it on and off
 as I need it? I never know what months we will use the camp until they
 arrive.

 Now the second part is we get reimbursed the cost of this from our
 Flexible Dependent Care through my wife's employer. Should I just
 deposit them and slide them over to Savings, count them as income?

 This is my biggest issue (and it's mine NOT 

[No Thirst Software] Re: Bucket Detail Report

[The Watkinson Family]

Excellent!  Thank you.

On Feb 1, 2009, at 12:24 PM, Kevin Hoctor wrote:


 On Jan 30, 2009, at 8:07 PM, The Watkinson Family wrote:

 What's the purpose of the MoneyWell Bucket Summary?  It looks like it
 just reports the transactions for the selected buckets in the  
 selected
 accounts for the desired period, but it does not include Money Flows,
 which means that it doesn't report how much money is actually in the
 bucket.  While this report is useful, is there also a way to see what
 the bucket amounts are?  If not, is it on the feature request  
 list?  I
 think this tool would be very helpful as my wife and I try to spend
 more time discussing the status of our finances.


 Hi Blair,

 It's just a way to report on historic spending. A new report is being
 produced to give you a snapshot of your current spending so you can
 print it and discuss what's left to spend.

 Peace,

 Kevin Hoctor
 ke...@nothirst.com
 No Thirst Software LLC
 http://nothirst.com
 http://kevinhoctor.blogspot.com


 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: deposits don't count as money allocated?

[The Watkinson Family]

Tanja,

 ps. I have noticed that when I press ⌘-= to show future pending
 transactions, the amount in my bucket changes to what it would be on
 the last day of the month taking all those pending transactions in
 account (only for the current month though). Should it work like this?
 I very much like it, so I'm hoping this is not a bug but intended
 behaviour... :)

The behavior you have observed is the intended one--it's great that  
you can look forward to the end of the month and determine, based on  
previous as well as future expenses, that you have enough money in  
your buckets to pay for them.

Blair
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[No Thirst Software] Re: Treatment of savings

[The Watkinson Family]

Hi, Holly!


 I like to transfer $100 a month from a Checking Account to a Money
 Market Account. I have set this up in my Spending Plan and allocated
 the income accordingly. When the automatic transfer is initiated by my
 bank I record it in the Savings Bucket.

 Next I record the transfer from the checking account to the Money
 Market Account, leaving the Bucket field empty.

 Question: Is there any way I can avoid this being recorded as an
 Unassigned Transaction?

Holly, it is possible to prevent this transaction from being recorded  
as unassigned, but I'm not sure that's really what you want to do.   
But I think that I'm confused in general about what's going on.

Normally, transfers from one account to another don't show up as  
unassigned transactions, because many, but not all, transfers should  
not be assigned to buckets.

If you have created a transfer from checking to the money market  
account in MoneyWell, then the transaction shouldn't be flagged as  
unassigned.  Instead, you should see it in your Transfers smart  
bucket.  Is this not the case?

If you have, in fact, created a transfer, I would think that you would  
want the transaction to be assigned to your Savings bucket, unless I'm  
misunderstanding what you're trying to do.  When you allocate the $100  
from your salary to the Savings bucket, that money then needs to be  
spent from your Savings bucket when you move the money to your Money  
Market account.  But like I said, I think that I am misunderstanding  
something about what you're doing... do you have more details to offer  
about what you're doing?  For instance, what did you mean by:

  When the automatic transfer is initiated by my
 bank I record it in the Savings Bucket.

And how is that different from:
 Next I record the transfer from the checking account to the Money
 Market Account, leaving the Bucket field empty.

Hope I can help!

Grace to you,
Blair


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[No Thirst Software] Re: deposits don't count as money allocated?

[The Watkinson Family]

Hi, Tanja,

See my comments below...


 Hello,

 I got paid again (yay ;) ) so I went to allocate money and it went
 very nice and smooth. I do have a question, to clear something up that
 I think does not work as I expected.

 A little background info that may or may not clear things up:
 I get paid on the 25th, and then pay my mortgage on the 28th. On the
 3rd of the following month I pay the life-insurance linked to my
 mortgage and on the 15th I get a monthly refund because I can deduct
 part of the interest of my mortgage. I have both the mortgage and
 lifeinsurance set up as costs in my 'mortgage' bucket. I have the tax-
 return set up as a scheduled deposit on that same bucket.
 When I go to allocate my income, MoneyWell seems to ignore the deposit
 and shows only the previously allocated money in the 'allocated'
 column in the Allocate Income window.

MoneyWell doesn't consider deposits throughout the month as  
allocations.  The allocations in your Allocate Money panel are blind  
deposits--I say blind because they do not look at or care what the  
amount is that is in the bucket.  If you said allocate $1000 into  
Mortgage, it will do so, every month, as long as you have money to do  
when you allocate money, regardless of how much you have.  So, I would  
reduce your monthly Mortgage allocation by your monthly refund (make  
you allocation = Mortgage payment - refund).  This is your out of  
pocket expense for you mortgage.

 This does make sense, but counting my refund as an amount
 automatically allocated to the bucket also makes sense (to me, at
 least ;) )

 I could ofcourse have these deposits (I have several) go into some
 income bucket and allocate the full amount of my mortgage, but I kinda
 see them as a negative spending of the appropriate bucket.

You could do this, but it may complicate your document, and may be  
unnecessary.  I think that it's natural to have negative spending.   
When I return an item I bought, I don't put the deposit in an income  
bucket and then move back to the appropriate expense bucket, I just  
credit the refund back to the appropriate expense bucket directly.   
Your mortgage refund seems similar to this situation.

 Then again, I probably should get into the state where it functions as
 a buffer on the bucket. As I still am in the process of paying down
 debt, I'm not entirely sure how to handle this so I appreciate
 anyone's thoughts on this.

I have found that when trying to prioritize buffers, paying down debt,  
and maximizing savings it is best to tackle one at a time--in the  
order of most urgent to least.  I've been facilitating Dave Ramsey's  
Financial Peace University at my church for the last few weeks, and he  
recommends starting with a $1000 buffer.  Then pay down your debt  
using a snowball approach (be aggressive about debt payments/reduction  
so you can be out of debt as soon as practical).  Then work toward  
savings (3-6 months of expenses).

Here's how I'd approach your situation.  As we start February, ensure  
that the amount of money in your Mortgage bucket is the amount of your  
full Mortgage payment.   When you make the Mortgage payment, your  
bucket will go to 0.  Then, you'll receive your refund, and you will  
have an amount available in the bucket as we go into March.  Before  
allocating the March income, reduce your Mortgage allocation to the  
difference between the Mortgage payment and the refund.  Then when you  
allocate your income in March, the full amount of your Mortgage  
payment will again be available to you as you begin the month (the  
reduced allocation plus the refund forwarded from the previous month).

I think it will help to not try and use your Mortgage bucket to create  
a buffer.  Instead, use an Emergency Savings bucket, and grow your  
buffer in that bucket.  You can use the extra money available in your  
monthly allocation from reducing your Mortgage allocation and put it  
into Emergency Savings and build your buffer.  When you are  
comfortable with your buffer, don't grow it anymore, but instead apply  
the extra money toward paying down your debt using a snowball method.   
When you have no debt left (credit cards, car loans, and in some  
cases, home equity loans) excluding your mortgage, take the big chunk  
of money you have (from debt payments, plus what you had from  
Mortgage) and build your Emergency fund to 3-6 months savings  
(depending on the volatility of your income and the potential for  
emergencies on the horizon).  After you have a fully-funded emergency  
fund, invest that money toward retirement, then college, then your  
house payment.

One note about Emergency Savings bucket--I prefer to make it an  
expense bucket.  Some say, and they think more conceptually, that it  
should be an income bucket.  However, making it an expense bucket  
allows me to automatically allocate money towards it using the  
Allocate Income tool in MoneyWell.

Grace to you,
Blair

[No Thirst Software] Re: how to deposit 'cash'

[The Watkinson Family]

Mary Lou,

When you use a split for a cash transaction, don't use the checkbox.   
 From what I understand, the checkbox is a shortcut to allow you  
transfer money from one account to cash.  One common application would  
be an ATM withdrawal.  I so rarely have cash only transactions, that  
I never use this button--I just create the transfer my self using the  
drop downs further down in the panel.

Since you are sending money in two different directions, you would  
need to uncheck this box.

Overall, you have two approaches... One approach would be to start  
with a deposit into cash of 150 and 425 and assign each deposit to an  
income bucket.  Then transfer 550 from cash into your checking  
account.  This will allow you to keep the payee data with with the  
cash transaction and have a single deposit so that your checking  
account matches your statement.

The second approach would involve a complicated split transaction that  
also included transfers, somewhat similar to what you did--I won't go  
into that, since I don't think that would be as ideal given your  
situation, unless you don't think the first approach would work for you.

Grace to you,
Blair


On Jan 25, 2009, at 7:01 AM, ciara belle wrote:


 And keep some for myself :)

 I had 575... since i sold two items i put it as two separate items in
 moneywell.. 150 and 425...  but my husband decided keep 25 for
 himself...  so now its 550..
 so on the 1 transactions i entered it as 425... and split it - 400 to
 one bucket - and 25 i left w/ no bucket and checked the checkbox on
 the left (which i thought was for cash)... but the transaction remains
 at 425 (total)... I put the other amount as a separate line item of
 150 (i had intended to delete the 550 deposit and check off the two
 which added up to that total (since i need to keep payee for each -
 and the bank always deposits as a lump sum... pet peeve that is)...
 anyways -- i had to in the end delete the 25.. off the 425 since it
 was not putting the 25 in cash...

 did i do this wrong?  i wanted to show that i had Recieved 425 - but
 kept 25 for me... to spend .. so it didnt end up in the bank...
 ?

 mary lou
 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: how to deposit 'cash'

[The Watkinson Family]

Mary Lou,

Your use of your money may dictate whether or not you have a separate  
cash account.  For me, a very small number of my transactions are for  
cash, but enough to merit a separate cash account.

If you are withdrawing money (say $40) from a checking account for  
cash, and then spending all of that cash on the same type of expense  
(same bucket--say Groceries), it may not be worth tracking those  
individual cash expenses, and you can call the single withdrawal from  
your checking account a Grocery expense and assign it accordingly.

On the other hand, if you withdraw cash, and then spend the cash on  
hand on different types of expenses (say some on Groceries, some on  
haircuts, some on children's allowances), each of which you want to  
track via buckets, you would need a separate Cash account.  To make  
the withdrawal, you would create a transfer from checking to your cash  
account.  Then, when you spend the cash, you would assign the cash  
transaction to appropriate buckets.

I use this latter method, but sometimes, if I am just making a quick  
withdrawal and then spending it all right away, I may not bother with  
the transfer to cash and then the expense from cash--I'll just create  
the expense right out of checking and assign it to a bucket from  
there.  This is often my approach on business trips where I am  
allotted a daily amount for meals--I won't track each meal via cash,  
but just call the singular ATM withdrawal Business Meals, even though  
it may have served for multiple meals, plus admission to a museum,  
etc, which I am paying for from my per diem.

Grace to you,
Blair

On Jan 25, 2009, at 1:58 PM, ciara belle wrote:


 ok i see - a 3rd transaction for the 25i was hoping to keep that
 25 w/ the rest of the 400 (425) to show the entire amount i
 received... curiosity here -- do i need to create the basic cash
 account?  (i have several that *i* created for savings and such -
 which are really just fake accounts - but i am not sure if moneywell
 creates a basic default cash accounts for this sort of thing)..
 thanks
 mary lou

 On Jan 25, 9:33 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote:
 On Jan 25, 2009, at 7:01 AM, ciara belle wrote:



 And keep some for myself :)

 I had 575... since i sold two items i put it as two separate items  
 in
 moneywell.. 150 and 425...  but my husband decided keep 25 for
 himself...  so now its 550..
 so on the 1 transactions i entered it as 425... and split it - 400  
 to
 one bucket - and 25 i left w/ no bucket and checked the checkbox on
 the left (which i thought was for cash)... but the transaction  
 remains
 at 425 (total)... I put the other amount as a separate line item of
 150 (i had intended to delete the 550 deposit and check off the two
 which added up to that total (since i need to keep payee for each -
 and the bank always deposits as a lump sum... pet peeve that is)...
 anyways -- i had to in the end delete the 25.. off the 425 since it
 was not putting the 25 in cash...

 did i do this wrong?  i wanted to show that i had Recieved 425 - but
 kept 25 for me... to spend .. so it didnt end up in the bank...
 ?

 Hi Mary Lou,

 If you are entering a deposits in your bank account of cash in the
 amounts of 150 and 400, then those are the amount you should use
 because that's the money that went into your account. If you kept 25
 out of it for spending as cash, then you would put that as a deposit
 in your cash account.

 You can still flag both deposits (in the bank account and your cash
 account) as going to a specific bucket if you want to show them as a
 special kind of income.

 Peace,

 Kevin Hoctor
 ke...@nothirst.com
 No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.comhttp:// 
 kevinhoctor.blogspot.com
 


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[No Thirst Software] Split Data Entry Change Request

[The Watkinson Family]

Kevin,

When entering a split, after selecting Create Split the first active  
field is still the amount field for the Split Transaction detail.  If  
you change this amount, but no bucket has been assigned to the  
transaction, yet, the effort is lost because the data is reset and the  
active field becomes the bucket field.

I'd recommend that if no bucket has been assigned to the transaction,  
yet, after selecting the Create Split button, the first active field  
would be the bucket field, rather than the amount field.  When  
splitting a transaction, my normal approach is to not assign a bucket,  
but rather enter Date, Payee, Type, and Amount, then proceed below to  
split the data.  This seems like it would be a common approach.

Thank you for your consideration.

Blair Watkinson

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[No Thirst Software] Re: Cash Flow tracking start date changing behind my back

[The Watkinson Family]

 Chris,

 Actually, the amount is optional but the cash flow start date is
 always attached to a bucket. This will be taken care of in the 1.4.3
 patch so it should be a non-issue.

 Most people will need to use this amount entry. The two main
 exceptions are:

  1. Your starting balance is also your available cash, but this means
 you only are dealing with a single account for your spending, or

This one account restriction doesn't seem right to me... unless I'm  
misunderstanding.  I have five accounts that I used for my initial  
available cash.  I just assigned the starting balances of each of  
these five accounts to an income bucket.  Doing this, I didn't need to  
use the amount entry.

  2. Your first deposit after your start date is all the cash you have
 to spend

 Peace,

 Kevin Hoctor
 ke...@nothirst.com
 No Thirst Software LLC
 http://nothirst.com
 http://kevinhoctor.blogspot.com


 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total

[The Watkinson Family]

Ciara,

I thought I'd add an alternative explanation that may maximize your  
use of MoneyWell's split transaction feature.

When you create a split, in the split detail area, called Split  
Transaction on the MoneyWell panel, and you've referred to as  
transaction screen, Kevin is explaining that the first split item will  
be called the Split Parent.  All other split items are split children  
(although no reference to children exists in the program--I'm using  
that for discussion sake here).

Now in the Transactions panel, in the center of the screen, you are  
correct in stating that the split order appears random--the Split  
Parent item can be anywhere among the split transactions, sometimes,  
splits even overlap.  However, the Split Parent is always the first  
item when you were initially creating the split in the split detail  
panel.  Kevin has said that he will fix the orders of the splits in  
1.5.  Presumably, the Split Parent will always be listed first  
followed by its respective children after this update in the  
Transaction panel.

There are two ways to view splits in the main Transaction panel:
Hide Split Transaction Totals
Show Split Transaction Totals

In either view, the split parent is always the one with the  
transaction status showing next to it (Open, Cleared, Reconciled, or  
Pending).  The children will have have three lines next to it,  
indicating that it is a split child.  When you select a split child,  
you can click a button over in the Split Transaction detail area that  
will take you to the Split Parent--this will show you how the money is  
divided.

When you hide split transaction totals, each transaction that is part  
of the split shows the individual amount allocated to the split--even  
the parent shows it's split amount, which is less than the total  
transaction amount.

When you show split transaction totals, only the parent shows an  
amount in the Transaction panel, and it is the total amount of the  
transaction.  To see the individual split amounts, you would need to  
click on each split transaction.

Now, your final concern was changing the information in the splits.   
Like you have observed, when you select different split items in the  
Split Transaction area, it does not change the information at the top  
of the Transaction Detail.  The Transaction Detail always shows the  
information from the split parent.

The easiest way to change the buckets for an individual split item is  
to select the split child in the Transactions panel in the main part  
of the screen, rather than in the Split Transaction area.  I would  
caution, you, though, not to change the amount in this way, though,  
because there appears to be a bug which allows you to change a split  
child amount, and the transaction total doesn't change.  Neither is  
there an additional transaction added to account for the difference  
you've created.  In other words, the sum of the split items doesn't  
equal the total transaction amount.  It appears that after reopening  
the document, the split transaction corrects itself and adds a split  
transaction to cover the difference--leaving you wondering why an  
unexplained, unallocated transaction is all of a sudden showing up in  
your document.

Instead, if you must change a split item amount, change it in the  
Split Transaction area, not by selecting the split child.  I hope this  
helps--if something requires more clarity, let me know!

Grace to you,
Blair

On Jan 20, 2009, at 7:22 AM, ciara belle wrote:


 i understand what your saying - but its not the case... perhaps its
 not working properly.. but in some transactions it chooses the first
 split to display... in others it chooses the last... others again the
 middle... so it seems random to me...
 Not sure what your saying about the parent - i will take your word for
 it - but i personally don't think the feature is very useful if you
 cant change the items viewed by selecting another split item.  As i
 said i think we need a way to see more detail on the splits - as the
 transaction screen is not wide enough to see all the info.
 thanks

 ciara

 On Jan 19, 7:48 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote:
 The amount is not picked at random. If you see the split table then
 this is the split parent and also the first split line. The selection
 in the split table cannot drive the upper entries or it would also
 take you off the parent.

 The split children can be selected in the Transaction list to the  
 left.

 Peace,

 Kevin Hoctor
 No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.com

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 19, 2009, at 6:02 AM, ciara belle ciaraswe...@gmail.com  
 wrote:



 there are two marked total -- split total - which i understand
 completely... and the total closer to the top of the screen..  
 which is
 actually to correct myself (sigh) called Amount..   That amount  
 field
 is easily understood when there are no splits.. however when there  
 ARE
 splits.. the amount 

[No Thirst Software] Re: Money Left to Allocate does not match money in account after credit transfer

[The Watkinson Family]

Jaysen,

Yes, you would split the amount paid to the credit card.  You wouldn't  
two write two checks (you could, but there is no need to).  One part  
of the split would be assigned to Debt Repayment, and the other part  
would not be assigned.

The trick would be to figure out what's Debt Repayment, and what has  
been spent according to my spending plan this month?  MoneyWell can  
help determine this.  If you go to your credit card account, and  
select all transactions from a given month, the total of those  
transactions appear in the lowest part of the window.  This amount  
should be the amount that is not assigned in the split.

Anything you pay to the credit card company beyond that is Debt  
Repayment.

Does this make sense?

Blair

On Jan 2, 2009, at 7:51 AM, Jaysen wrote:


 If I buy an gas with my credit card, then I assign that transaction  
 in
 my credit card account to my automobile bucket. When I pay that off
 with my checking account (using a transfer assuming I track both
 accounts), I don't assign a bucket to either side of the transfer. If
 I did, I'd be spending the same amount twice.

 If I have a balance on my credit card when I start using MoneyWell,
 then I assign a bucket (mine is Debt Repayment) only to the
 transaction on the checking account side. This is done because I am
 spending the money on debt reduction.

 Still working on wrapping my head around this. Let me ask another
 question about the actual payment. When I write a check to the CC
 company, how would you account for it the various amounts? Do you
 split XXX from debt repayment and not categorize the rest? Are you
 writing 2 checks?

 Not questions the theory, but looking for implementation.

 Thanks.

 Jaysen
 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: New user questions feedback :-)

[The Watkinson Family]

Daren,

 Last (for now), I couldn't figure out how to set an initial balance
 for my Cash Account. Do I just enter a transaction labeled Initial
 Balance without a transfer, or ... ?

To enter your initial balance for your cash account, just change the  
starting balance for the account.

The starting balance may not always be visible.  To ensure that it is  
visible, select your cash account, and select all transactions smart  
bucket.  This will allow you to see the Starting Balance in the  
transaction panel.  Changing this amount will change your initial  
balance.  Think of the Accounts and Buckets section as filters,  
selecting them filters away other transactions.  You can also select  
multiple accounts to see the transactions in two different accounts.

Blair

On Jan 2, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Daren Johnson wrote:


 I'm a Quicken 2K5 user looking to move on, and after some evaluation
 of Moneywell in December, I'm doing a serious trial starting
 yesterday. Watched all the tutorials, worked on setting up my accounts
 last night, etc.

 First, I love the interface. It's a major step forward from what I'm
 used to - kudos. I'm interested in the bucket-priority scheme, but
 didn't have time to play with it last night - when you rate a bucket
 as a higher priority, does the bucket's color change too? :-) If you
 wanted to do so, can MW auto-arrange your buckets into priority
 groups, within which you can drag them around at will?

 Since all my old transaction-download passwords are locked in
 Quicken's password vault, I'm contacting my banks today to have them
 send me new ones. Does Moneywell use the Keychain to store online bank
 passwords, or are they stored internally to the program? If they're
 not in the Keychain, I might have to store them there as an additional
 record, just to make sure I can get to them in the future.

 Speaking of banks, I couldn't find one of mine (e.g. GE Money Bank) in
 the list of available institutions. Where does this list come from?
 How does one set up an account for which the institution is missing?

 Last (for now), I couldn't figure out how to set an initial balance
 for my Cash Account. Do I just enter a transaction labeled Initial
 Balance without a transfer, or ... ?

 Thanks for creating such a cool program; as I gain experience, I look
 forward to further satisfaction and becoming an owner shortly!

 - Daren

 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Car Loan

[The Watkinson Family]

Hi, Mark,

I take a different approach to loans than the others that have  
responded.  I like that MoneyWell helps me spend only the money that I  
have by allocating it to specific purposes.  However, as your example  
demonstrates, finance software should do more than that.  I refuse to  
keep two money softwares to track overall net worth as well as keep  
spending under control, and I have found that MoneyWell will actually  
do both.

Consider the fact that both your interest payment as well as the  
principal payment are Car Loan expenses.

Here's what I do.  When I first pay the bill every month, I don't know  
how much I am paying towards interest and how much towards  
principal... I'm just paying the bill.  I create this expense as a  
single transfer from my Checking account to my Car loan account.  I  
put this transfer in the Car Loan bucket.

Later, when I receive my loan statement, or look at it on-line, I can  
see how much of my payment was for interest and how much was for  
principal.

I edit the original transaction, creating a split.  I put Interest  
and Principal in the memo of the two split items.  The Interest  
item should not be a transfer, but it should be assigned to the Car  
Loan bucket.  Principal should be a transfer from Checking to Car  
loan, and it should also be assigned to your Car Loan bucket.

This way, your Car loan account will show approximately what you owe  
on your car loan as far as the principal is concerned (of course this  
amount changes every day), and you will be able to track your spending  
with buckets, as well.

Hope this helps.  Please let me know if you need further detail.

Grace to you,
Blair

On Dec 22, 2008, at 10:08 PM, mhadja...@gmail.com wrote:


 My monthly payment from the bank is lets say 200 bucks. Each month, I
 pay a different amount, sometimes 225, sometimes 250, sometimes even
 300. Now any extra over the 200 goes towards principle.

 So I can't track a steady cash flow because depending on how much
 extra money I have left is what I put in towards the car payment.

 So my 60 month loan should be paid off within 48 months hopefully.
 Which makes having to do more work in MW to see my remaining loan
 balance as well as track cash flow.

 Mark


 On Dec 22, 9:59 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote:
 On Dec 21, 2008, at 7:01 PM, mhadja...@gmail.com wrote:

 Maybe i'm missing something, but my interest goes down each  
 payment as
 I'm paying more towards principle. It also changes depending on how
 many days sooner my payment clears. The reason for tracking is to  
 see
 how much money is leaving my checking account each month, as well as
 the remaining principle left to pay my auto loan.

 When I receive my statement, it tells me the prior months interest
 payment, which I tack on to the remaining auto loan balance. So the
 actual amount owed for my vehicle isn't exact, but its within 100
 bucks typically.

 But your loan payments are the same all the time, correct? And this  
 is
 what comes out of your checking account each month so this is what  
 you
 are trying to track to control cash flow, right?

 What I am saying is, tracking the principal and interest is fine but
 excessive work because you are not affecting it unless you decide to
 pay more than you calculated loan payment. If you are going to do
 that, then you still will have a static amount going to your loan  
 each
 month and you just have to check with the bank to see what you  
 balance
 is prior to your last payment because it will get paid off early.

 I'm trying to learn this program and use it to my advantage, but I
 feel like i'm struggling more to figure this out and having to hold
 back from a lot of the 2.0 features.

 MoneyWell 2.0 will have some great additions but the core process of
 managing your cash flow better is already in place. If this is what
 you're trying to accomplish or you just enjoy a cleaner register
 manager, then MoneyWell 1.4 should be helpful.

 Peace,

 Kevin Hoctor
 ke...@nothirst.com
 No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.comhttp:// 
 kevinhoctor.blogspot.com
 


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[No Thirst Software] Re: Requested Feature - Handling Loans

[The Watkinson Family]

Ken,

With my loans, this how I work the process:

1. Transfer a payment from a checking account to the loan account (the  
amount of this payment includes both the principal, interest, plus any  
management fees).
2. Split the transfer, ensuring that the Interest and Management Fees  
are not set up for transfer.  I assign all parts of the split to the  
appropriate buckets.

I manage all my accounts manually, and I do not import files.  I do  
not know how this process would work if you were to import the files.

Personally, I don't really like putting the final payout of the loan  
(that is, on the first day of the loan, listing the actual loan value  
as the Principle plus all future Interest payments).  To me, this  
obscures the notion of future value and present value and makes net  
worth calculations extremely difficult, especially if the loan allows  
an early payoff option.  Having the remaining principal amount listed  
as the loan amount helps me to know when/whether I can pay off the  
loan with other assets.

Blair

On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:02 AM, Ken wrote:


 Is there a better way of handling loans?

 When you import of QIF loan file, you get the interest and principal
 amounts, but only the principal amounts would be subtracted from the
 initial loan balance. It seems currently both interest and principal
 is being subtracted.

 Any suggestions on how to manage loans?

 Thanks, Ken



 

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[No Thirst Software] Re: Allocate money from one Paycheck to multiple accounts?

[The Watkinson Family]

I think that Patrick's suggestion is the right idea whether it's  
scheduled or just entered as a normal transaction--in other words,  
your single paycheck would be represented by three deposits in  
MoneyWell, one into each of your accounts (or four accounts if you  
intend to track your 401K as an account)--you'd take a similar  
approach to your wife's check.  The only thing that I would add is  
that you'd want to be sure that each deposit was assigned to an income  
bucket of some sort so that the money would be available when it is  
time to allocate.

Given how you manage your money through the use of separate accounts,  
as an alternative, you might consider only tracking the one account  
for your general spending (and possibly your flexible bills).  You  
see, MoneyWell was designed to help you control your spending.  You  
obviously wouldn't need a tool to help control your spending when it  
comes to your property tax and homeowners insurance, or your savings  
account, for that matter. The place where you'd want to use a tool to  
ensure you're not overspending is in that general spending checking  
account.  If you wanted too, you could simply create buckets and track  
expenses just in this one account.  This could simplify the work and  
time required (though Kevin has created an easy-to-use product) in  
managing and tracking this account with the MoneyWell software while  
still accomplishing the goals you intend.

However, if your goals also include using a software to have a  
holistic perspective on your finances and maybe tracking tax  
deductions for the end of the year, not just to control spending when  
it comes to general expenses, then you might want to go ahead and  
track all the accounts like was mentioned in the first paragraph above.

Blair

On Sep 18, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Jeremy wrote:


 I'm terribly sorry!! I meant Moneywell. Is there a moneydance? Deepest
 apologies. If I could edit the post I would.

 Maybe I'm getting all too hung up on Paychecks and not looking at the
 bigger picture. moneyWELL does seem to come at things from a different
 angle. I just feel like Ill be losing something by doing it that way.
 I'll try it out.

 Thanks for the quick response.




 On Sep 18, 10:29 am, Simon Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 18 Sep 2008, at 16:13, Jeremy wrote:

 My question is: how do I set this up in MoneyDance

 No idea! ;) Actually I do since I used MoneyDance a few years back  
 but
 that's beside the point.

 What I would do it MoneyWell (or any other finance package) it simply
 set up multiple repeating transactions, one for each deposit into  
 each
 account.

 Simon
 


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