Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
La Leche League is about to publish a book on tandem feeding and breastfeeding in pregnancy. The author is Hilary Flower but Im not sure of the title. I'm pretty sure the 'launch' is at the LLLI conference in San Diego in July, don't know when it will be available in Australia. Meanwhile ABA might have some information for you Kirsten Blacker - Original Message - From: Maternity Ward Mareeba Hospital [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 2:00 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Jane, If you or any one else is interested, could you tell me more about your experience with establishing tandem feeding. I expect to be doing it in the none to distant future. My email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/06/2003 2:37:22 pm Dear Pinky I am breastfeeding my 2 year old (who will be 3 in August) and my 4 week old baby. So let me know if I can be of any assistance. By the way - I don't think I have posted to this list that I had another wonderful homebirth. I now have a daughter called Lia Rose (such a surprise - I fully expected to have another boy). Cheers Jane Palmer Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of jo hunter Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 11:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Pinky wrote Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Hi Pinky, Jo Hunter here - I'm still breastfeeding my 20 month old daughter and know of a few other women breastfeeding their toddlers who I'm sure would be willing to be interviewed! Love your work! Jo HAS Coordinator Homebirth mum to 4 INNATE BIRTH CBEducator and doula -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. ** This e-mail, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this e-mail is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this e-mail in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone or by return e-mail. You should also delete this e-mail message and destroy any hard copies produced. ** -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Hi, Megan, I tandem fed Zac (now 10) and Daniel (now 8) Although Zac and Daniel are 2 years apart, they share the same birthday. Zac was always a very sucky baby, and fed every 1- 11/2 hrs as a baby. When my milk supply diminished during my pregnancy he kept on going. And got a pleasant surprise when there was a bountiful supply of milk when Daniel was born. Zac, on his second birthday, assisted us at Daniel's birth centre birth. Rubbed my back, gave me drinks and wasn't at all perturbed by labour and his brother's birth. They happily shared their titty. Zac was relegated to *his* side. Daniel, the baby, had his own side, plus whatever was left over. Daniel grew slowly outside the womb, and my milk supply was questioned by the experts, and weaning Zac was encouraged.. But, I think it was his growth pattern rather than any lack of milk. His wet and dirty nappies told us he was getting plenty. I can certainly vouch for the value of a toddler for draining an engorged breast. The only down side was that when Zac weaned (with encouragement, and the bribe of a light sabre) at 4.2 yrs, Daniel weaned shortly after. Daniel thinks of himself as the very independent one in the family. Proudly telling people that he weaned at a very young age, only 2 and a half! Zac and Daniel have always been the best of friends, always happy to share their belongings. And of course, I put it down to their tandem feeding experience! Love, Barb -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Jane, If you or any one else is interested, could you tell me more about your experience with establishing tandem feeding. I expect to be doing it in the none to distant future. My email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/06/2003 2:37:22 pm Dear Pinky I am breastfeeding my 2 year old (who will be 3 in August) and my 4 week old baby. So let me know if I can be of any assistance. By the way - I don't think I have posted to this list that I had another wonderful homebirth. I now have a daughter called Lia Rose (such a surprise - I fully expected to have another boy). Cheers Jane Palmer Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of jo hunter Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 11:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Pinky wrote Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Hi Pinky, Jo Hunter here - I'm still breastfeeding my 20 month old daughter and know of a few other women breastfeeding their toddlers who I'm sure would be willing to be interviewed! Love your work! Jo HAS Coordinator Homebirth mum to 4 INNATE BIRTH CBEducator and doula -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. ** This e-mail, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this e-mail is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this e-mail in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone or by return e-mail. You should also delete this e-mail message and destroy any hard copies produced. ** -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Hi Pinky, I tandem fed my children back in the 1970's and would be very happy to be interviewd if it would assist your research. I lived in a small conservative rural community and was regarded as the local sexual deviant and witch!! Jeannie Minnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Have just been speaking to Larissa on the phone - mentioned I may need to interview her - her most vivid 'mammary' is having conjunctivitis when she was little and me squirting breastmilk into her sticky eye! Pinky - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:16 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Pinky Thank you for this I it made me chuckle denise - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Barb, Thanks, Ive just accepted the other offers for PP -what a scream! - an interview of breastfed kids - I might do that for a natural parenting mag -will check out some of the more avant guard mainstreamers too (Junior magazine have asked if I would like to write for them - www.juniormagazine.co.uk -they've had some controversial/ unusual articles ) - My daughter Larissa (now almost 23 and almost a psychologist) was around 51/2 when she tried to have a booby to help ease the pain of an ear infection (she hadnt nursed for a few weeks -Sarah -then 2 was still nursing as well so there was plenty of milk) . As she tried to nibble she looked up matter-of- factly and said I think I've lost my sucking reflex -that was her 'weaning'. She would be a great expert. Now that is food for thought! Pinky - Original Message - From: barbara glare chris bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Dear Pinky, I'm still breastfeeding Cassie who is 5 and a half. You could interview her! She speaks quite eloquently about breastfeeding and breastmilk. I could easily set you up with a few longer term breastfeeders for interviews, and have some great photos of toddlers breastfeeding. Love, Barb ABAPoster and Calendar orders [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neretlis, Bethany [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:08 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep pinky, i have fed both my girls for 2 years each. unfortunately, i ceased feeding 10 months ago. i am also a midwife. if there is any way i can help you with any breastfeeding articles, please leet me know. bethany -Original Message- From: Pinky McKay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 19:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Yeah - how about Extending the Breast -reckon they'd cop that? (Im sure there has to be an angle -??soft and round - squished between grasping little fingers?) Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Ill check with Mara (the ed) -I bet they havent done one about THAT in the recent (or distant) past. Pinky. - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and astounds me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some common-sense mothering with your advice. They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies over the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I think the last one ended up FTP and C/S. Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of breast-feeding soon?? Cheryl From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called Joined at The Hip -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for babies. August is co-sleeping
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Hi Jeanie - thats so sad but I can relate - I got a bit famous in our local community in the 70s I was a La Leche Group Leader in Nz in the 70s and the dear local Mormon girls came to see me about breastfeeding. When it had the desired -for them - natural child spacing effects, they were all in deep poo at their church (a baby was expected every year) - we lived in Hamilton near a large Mormon temple. I also worked weekends in a postnatal ward while I was still breastfeeding a then 4 year old and there was a lot of birth activism going on -the same women were in LLL and Parents centres / home birth movement etc so I often heard how weird we all were- hey but the fight was worth it -things did change - from rooming in to lots of birth options. My girls tandem nursed (born 80 and 83) - during pregnancy Larissa 'favoured' one side and said 'that is the babys booby' - as she stopped drinking from that side it produced colostrum while 'her' side continued to produced milk right through the pregnancy -then there was colostrum from both breasts after birth - milk in within 12 hours - 3 year old definitely helpful! It wasnt alwasy easy -there were days when I felt like a piece of meat being chewed on by two voracious puppies - At first, Larissa developed very severe middle ear infection and runny nose while I was in hospital (induction the works) and she drank some cow milk at home (allergy)although bfed when she came to visit me. Then as soon as I was home again Larissa nursed on her side when Sarah Nursed and then had Sarahs side by herself' later. Sarah was a very chubby baby and I felt she must have got a very good dose of hind milk -I really allowed them to nurse whenever either wanted. The importnat thing for me was to eat much more -I was a much faster burner then and often became quite lightheaded or tired . Rick used to say when did you last eat? which was helpful -after a good protein snack I was fine again. I will add you all to my Breastfeeders file -as soon as I get my head around it I will contact you. Has anyone read teh Contented little baby book of weaning?? I havent but have seen it on shelves Thanks Pinky - Original Message - From: Jeannie Minnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Pinky, I tandem fed my children back in the 1970's and would be very happy to be interviewd if it would assist your research. I lived in a small conservative rural community and was regarded as the local sexual deviant and witch!! Jeannie Minnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Have just been speaking to Larissa on the phone - mentioned I may need to interview her - her most vivid 'mammary' is having conjunctivitis when she was little and me squirting breastmilk into her sticky eye! Pinky - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:16 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Pinky Thank you for this I it made me chuckle denise - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Barb, Thanks, Ive just accepted the other offers for PP -what a scream! - an interview of breastfed kids - I might do that for a natural parenting mag -will check out some of the more avant guard mainstreamers too (Junior magazine have asked if I would like to write for them - www.juniormagazine.co.uk -they've had some controversial/ unusual articles ) - My daughter Larissa (now almost 23 and almost a psychologist) was around 51/2 when she tried to have a booby to help ease the pain of an ear infection (she hadnt nursed for a few weeks -Sarah -then 2 was still nursing as well so there was plenty of milk) . As she tried to nibble she looked up matter-of- factly and said I think I've lost my sucking reflex -that was her 'weaning'. She would be a great expert. Now that is food for thought! Pinky - Original Message - From: barbara glare chris bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Dear Pinky, I'm still breastfeeding Cassie who is 5 and a half. You could interview her! She speaks quite eloquently about breastfeeding and breastmilk. I could easily set you up with a few longer term breastfeeders for interviews, and have some great photos of toddlers breastfeeding. Love, Barb ABAPoster and Calendar orders [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message
RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Just in case you need anymore Pinky, and it doesn't sound as though you do, I breastfed both my girls, one to 2 and one to 4 and 1/2 years after unsuccessfully trying to breastfeed my son Cheers Tina -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pinky McKay Sent: Friday, 27 June 2003 8:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Jeanie - thats so sad but I can relate - I got a bit famous in our local community in the 70s I was a La Leche Group Leader in Nz in the 70s and the dear local Mormon girls came to see me about breastfeeding. When it had the desired -for them - natural child spacing effects, they were all in deep poo at their church (a baby was expected every year) - we lived in Hamilton near a large Mormon temple. I also worked weekends in a postnatal ward while I was still breastfeeding a then 4 year old and there was a lot of birth activism going on -the same women were in LLL and Parents centres / home birth movement etc so I often heard how weird we all were- hey but the fight was worth it -things did change - from rooming in to lots of birth options. My girls tandem nursed (born 80 and 83) - during pregnancy Larissa 'favoured' one side and said 'that is the babys booby' - as she stopped drinking from that side it produced colostrum while 'her' side continued to produced milk right through the pregnancy -then there was colostrum from both breasts after birth - milk in within 12 hours - 3 year old definitely helpful! It wasnt alwasy easy -there were days when I felt like a piece of meat being chewed on by two voracious puppies - At first, Larissa developed very severe middle ear infection and runny nose while I was in hospital (induction the works) and she drank some cow milk at home (allergy)although bfed when she came to visit me. Then as soon as I was home again Larissa nursed on her side when Sarah Nursed and then had Sarahs side by herself' later. Sarah was a very chubby baby and I felt she must have got a very good dose of hind milk -I really allowed them to nurse whenever either wanted. The importnat thing for me was to eat much more -I was a much faster burner then and often became quite lightheaded or tired . Rick used to say when did you last eat? which was helpful -after a good protein snack I was fine again. I will add you all to my Breastfeeders file -as soon as I get my head around it I will contact you. Has anyone read teh Contented little baby book of weaning?? I havent but have seen it on shelves Thanks Pinky - Original Message - From: Jeannie Minnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Pinky, I tandem fed my children back in the 1970's and would be very happy to be interviewd if it would assist your research. I lived in a small conservative rural community and was regarded as the local sexual deviant and witch!! Jeannie Minnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Have just been speaking to Larissa on the phone - mentioned I may need to interview her - her most vivid 'mammary' is having conjunctivitis when she was little and me squirting breastmilk into her sticky eye! Pinky - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:16 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Pinky Thank you for this I it made me chuckle denise - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Barb, Thanks, Ive just accepted the other offers for PP -what a scream! - an interview of breastfed kids - I might do that for a natural parenting mag -will check out some of the more avant guard mainstreamers too (Junior magazine have asked if I would like to write for them - www.juniormagazine.co.uk -they've had some controversial/ unusual articles ) - My daughter Larissa (now almost 23 and almost a psychologist) was around 51/2 when she tried to have a booby to help ease the pain of an ear infection (she hadnt nursed for a few weeks -Sarah -then 2 was still nursing as well so there was plenty of milk) . As she tried to nibble she looked up matter-of- factly and said I think I've lost my sucking reflex -that was her 'weaning'. She would be a great expert. Now that is food for thought! Pinky - Original Message - From: barbara glare chris bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Here here Julie, I'll second that!! My milk was in on day 2, and by that afternoon any sense of discomfort had been alleviated by a very excited, and somewhat surprised (but very grateful) 2 1/2 year old lolol!!! Tania - Original Message - From: Judy Giesaitis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 3:21 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I can still remember my grandson, then almost 2 assisting his mum with the yumps (lumps)after his little sister was bor. My daughter said that a breast feeding toddler should be standard issue with any new baby! Judy Giesaitis -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Hi Pinky, Pnky wrote: Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? My breastfeeding times grow longer with each child. I am not currently feeding an older child, but did feed my third child until 3 years 1 month. We weaned because I was approx. 4 mths pregnant suffering with fatigue morning sickness. We weaned in Oct / Nov last year. If this is recent enough feel free to contact me. Tina H. Brisbane. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Dear Pinky Your book must be the one! Is it on sale through Ace graphics? As far as breastfeeding goes, I have been breastfeeding since March 2001 when my son was born. I breastfed him all throughout my pregnancy and I have only weaned him when I was 8 months pregnant and a month later I started again with my baby girl who is now 8 months old. I will continue to breastfeed her for as long as we want, hopefully for a long time :) Hey Tina, well done Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of M T Holroyd Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2003 1:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Pinky, Pnky wrote: Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? My breastfeeding times grow longer with each child. I am not currently feeding an older child, but did feed my third child until 3 years 1 month. We weaned because I was approx. 4 mths pregnant suffering with fatigue morning sickness. We weaned in Oct / Nov last year. If this is recent enough feel free to contact me. Tina H. Brisbane. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Hi Jackie, Yes Ace are selling my books, but you can also down load an order form at my website (I can also send out nice coloured fliers if anyone wants some to leave lying around -free and free postage) I offer a discount for orders of both books (at my site) and postage is free in Australia. I will also file you under Breastfeeders -I am thinking where I can now do a longer article on extended breastfeeding -its so good to hear of all these lucky babies - and their mums are all healthy and happy - I so often used to hear -it must be taking a lot out of you - mostly just milk?? Pinky www.pinky-mychild.com - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:28 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Dear Pinky Your book must be the one! Is it on sale through Ace graphics? As far as breastfeeding goes, I have been breastfeeding since March 2001 when my son was born. I breastfed him all throughout my pregnancy and I have only weaned him when I was 8 months pregnant and a month later I started again with my baby girl who is now 8 months old. I will continue to breastfeed her for as long as we want, hopefully for a long time :) Hey Tina, well done Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of M T Holroyd Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2003 1:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Pinky, Pnky wrote: Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? My breastfeeding times grow longer with each child. I am not currently feeding an older child, but did feed my third child until 3 years 1 month. We weaned because I was approx. 4 mths pregnant suffering with fatigue morning sickness. We weaned in Oct / Nov last year. If this is recent enough feel free to contact me. Tina H. Brisbane. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Hi Pinky, I'll be happy to place around your flyers, send them to Birth Matters, PO Box 611, Brighton SA 5048. Megan Resch -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pinky McKay Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2003 11:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Jackie, Yes Ace are selling my books, but you can also down load an order form at my website (I can also send out nice coloured fliers if anyone wants some to leave lying around -free and free postage) I offer a discount for orders of both books (at my site) and postage is free in Australia. I will also file you under Breastfeeders -I am thinking where I can now do a longer article on extended breastfeeding -its so good to hear of all these lucky babies - and their mums are all healthy and happy - I so often used to hear -it must be taking a lot out of you - mostly just milk?? Pinky www.pinky-mychild.com - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:28 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Dear Pinky Your book must be the one! Is it on sale through Ace graphics? As far as breastfeeding goes, I have been breastfeeding since March 2001 when my son was born. I breastfed him all throughout my pregnancy and I have only weaned him when I was 8 months pregnant and a month later I started again with my baby girl who is now 8 months old. I will continue to breastfeed her for as long as we want, hopefully for a long time :) Hey Tina, well done Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of M T Holroyd Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2003 1:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Pinky, Pnky wrote: Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? My breastfeeding times grow longer with each child. I am not currently feeding an older child, but did feed my third child until 3 years 1 month. We weaned because I was approx. 4 mths pregnant suffering with fatigue morning sickness. We weaned in Oct / Nov last year. If this is recent enough feel free to contact me. Tina H. Brisbane. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and astounds me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some common-sense mothering with your advice. They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies over the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I think the last one ended up FTP and C/S. Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of breast-feeding soon?? Cheryl From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called Joined at The Hip -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame approach (or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 breech births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies that I havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones. Pinky - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I must agree with Pinky as well And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they call it controlled crying so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them anyway. Sad. I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and there it was: BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night (in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad. And the worst thing is that these people have plenty of room in the media, I always hear them talking on the radio as specialists or experts in sleep methods, experts in parenting And they do have an audience! May God have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship are these people creating by establishing that pattern? Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pinky McKay Sent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see Saturdays Age -re 25 year olds and the stress these women are under - career/ study etc -not at all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with unrealistic expectations, to this scenario and it would all be a slippery downhill slide. I have several friends at the grandmother end who are wearing this stress (as well as trying to live their own lives) and actually being diagnosed with depression -as their young daughters are struggling with mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we all need to learn to slow up somehow and reach out to each other more. It seems prescriptions (which I am not knocking either, as they are a definite lifeline, just the irony that they are offered as the 'fix') are needed to cope with things that should be helped by support - yet the community for honoring mothering isnt really there and our life pace is getting so fast. Or could it be these new mums are part of a generation who missed out on nurturing themselves? There is a saying - happiness is not in things it is in us but perhaps it really isnt in us if we are stressed from birth and as infants -and possibly predisposed to react more sensitively to work/life stress. There is evidence that excess stress hormones -iecortisol can shrink/ alter parts of the brain - at any age (I am just waiting for a new desk to arrive so all my stuff is inaccessible but had some interesting notes from a neuro psychologist at Monash on this). So if women were already living under stress, then they would be close to the 'edge' and a baby could be the final 'straw' . I am not sure how much of this stress is due to perception and expectations - surely mothers/ people in general havent always been so unhappy. Pinky - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I totally agree with both Darren
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Yeah - how about Extending the Breast -reckon they'd cop that? (Im sure there has to be an angle -??soft and round - squished between grasping little fingers?) Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Ill check with Mara (the ed) -I bet they havent done one about THAT in the recent (or distant) past. Pinky. - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and astounds me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some common-sense mothering with your advice. They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies over the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I think the last one ended up FTP and C/S. Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of breast-feeding soon?? Cheryl From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called Joined at The Hip -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame approach (or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 breech births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies that I havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones. Pinky - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I must agree with Pinky as well And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they call it controlled crying so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them anyway. Sad. I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and there it was: BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night (in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad. And the worst thing is that these people have plenty of room in the media, I always hear them talking on the radio as specialists or experts in sleep methods, experts in parenting And they do have an audience! May God have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship are these people creating by establishing that pattern? Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pinky McKay Sent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see Saturdays Age -re 25 year olds and the stress these women are under - career/ study etc -not at all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with unrealistic expectations, to this scenario and it would all be a slippery downhill slide. I have several friends at the grandmother end who are wearing this stress (as well as trying to live their own lives) and actually being diagnosed with depression -as their young daughters are struggling with mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we all need to learn to slow up somehow and reach out to each other more. It seems prescriptions (which I am not knocking either, as they are a definite lifeline, just the irony that they are offered as the 'fix') are needed to cope with things that should be helped by support - yet the community for honoring mothering isnt really there and our life pace is getting so fast. Or could it be these new mums are part of a generation who missed out on nurturing themselves? There is a saying - happiness is not in things it is in us but perhaps it really isnt in us if we are stressed from birth and as infants -and possibly predisposed to react more sensitively to work/life stress. There is evidence that excess stress hormones -iecortisol can shrink/ alter parts of the brain - at any age (I am just waiting for a new desk to arrive so all my
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
PS -Thankyou for your lovely feedback Cheryl Pinky - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and astounds me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some common-sense mothering with your advice. They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies over the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I think the last one ended up FTP and C/S. Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of breast-feeding soon?? Cheryl From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called Joined at The Hip -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame approach (or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 breech births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies that I havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones. Pinky - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I must agree with Pinky as well And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they call it controlled crying so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them anyway. Sad. I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and there it was: BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night (in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad. And the worst thing is that these people have plenty of room in the media, I always hear them talking on the radio as specialists or experts in sleep methods, experts in parenting And they do have an audience! May God have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship are these people creating by establishing that pattern? Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pinky McKay Sent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see Saturdays Age -re 25 year olds and the stress these women are under - career/ study etc -not at all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with unrealistic expectations, to this scenario and it would all be a slippery downhill slide. I have several friends at the grandmother end who are wearing this stress (as well as trying to live their own lives) and actually being diagnosed with depression -as their young daughters are struggling with mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we all need to learn to slow up somehow and reach out to each other more. It seems prescriptions (which I am not knocking either, as they are a definite lifeline, just the irony that they are offered as the 'fix') are needed to cope with things that should be helped by support - yet the community for honoring mothering isnt really there and our life pace is getting so fast. Or could it be these new mums are part of a generation who missed out on nurturing themselves? There is a saying - happiness is not in things it is in us but perhaps it really isnt in us if we are stressed from birth and as infants -and possibly predisposed to react more sensitively to work/life stress. There is evidence that excess stress hormones -iecortisol can shrink/ alter parts of the brain - at any age (I am just waiting for a new desk to arrive so all my stuff is inaccessible but had some interesting notes from a neuro psychologist at Monash on this). So if women were already living under stress, then they would be close to the 'edge' and a baby could be the final 'straw' . I am not sure how much of this stress is due to perception and expectations - surely mothers
RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
pinky, i have fed both my girls for 2 years each. unfortunately, i ceased feeding 10 months ago. i am also a midwife. if there is any way i can help you with any breastfeeding articles, please leet me know. bethany -Original Message- From: Pinky McKay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 19:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Yeah - how about Extending the Breast -reckon they'd cop that? (Im sure there has to be an angle -??soft and round - squished between grasping little fingers?) Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Ill check with Mara (the ed) -I bet they havent done one about THAT in the recent (or distant) past. Pinky. - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and astounds me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some common-sense mothering with your advice. They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies over the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I think the last one ended up FTP and C/S. Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of breast-feeding soon?? Cheryl From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called Joined at The Hip -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame approach (or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 breech births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies that I havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones. Pinky - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I must agree with Pinky as well And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they call it controlled crying so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them anyway. Sad. I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and there it was: BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night (in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad. And the worst thing is that these people have plenty of room in the media, I always hear them talking on the radio as specialists or experts in sleep methods, experts in parenting And they do have an audience! May God have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship are these people creating by establishing that pattern? Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pinky McKay Sent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see Saturdays Age -re 25 year olds and the stress these women are under - career/ study etc -not at all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with unrealistic expectations, to this scenario and it would all be a slippery downhill slide. I have several friends at the grandmother end who are wearing this stress (as well as trying to live their own lives) and actually being diagnosed with depression -as their young daughters are struggling with mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we all need to learn to slow up somehow and reach out to each other more. It seems prescriptions (which I am not knocking either, as they are a definite lifeline, just the irony that they are offered as the 'fix') are needed to cope with things that should be helped by support - yet the community for honoring mothering isnt really there and our life pace is getting so fast. Or could it be these new mums are part of a generation who missed out on nurturing
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Pinky wrote Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Hi Pinky, Jo Hunter here - I'm still breastfeeding my 20 month old daughter and know of a few other women breastfeeding their toddlers who I'm sure would be willing to be interviewed! Love your work! Jo HAS Coordinator Homebirth mum to 4 INNATE BIRTH CBEducator and doula -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Dear Pinky, I'm still breastfeeding Cassie who is 5 and a half. You could interview her! She speaks quite eloquently about breastfeeding and breastmilk. I could easily set you up with a few longer term breastfeeders for interviews, and have some great photos of toddlers breastfeeding. Love, Barb ABAPoster and Calendar orders [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neretlis, Bethany [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:08 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep pinky, i have fed both my girls for 2 years each. unfortunately, i ceased feeding 10 months ago. i am also a midwife. if there is any way i can help you with any breastfeeding articles, please leet me know. bethany -Original Message- From: Pinky McKay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 19:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Yeah - how about Extending the Breast -reckon they'd cop that? (Im sure there has to be an angle -??soft and round - squished between grasping little fingers?) Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Ill check with Mara (the ed) -I bet they havent done one about THAT in the recent (or distant) past. Pinky. - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and astounds me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some common-sense mothering with your advice. They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies over the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I think the last one ended up FTP and C/S. Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of breast-feeding soon?? Cheryl From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called Joined at The Hip -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame approach (or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 breech births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies that I havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones. Pinky - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I must agree with Pinky as well And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they call it controlled crying so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them anyway. Sad. I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and there it was: BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night (in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad. And the worst thing is that these people have plenty of room in the media, I always hear them talking on the radio as specialists or experts in sleep methods, experts in parenting And they do have an audience! May God have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship are these people creating by establishing that pattern? Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pinky McKay Sent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see Saturdays Age -re 25 year olds and the stress these women are under - career/ study etc -not at all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with unrealistic expectations, to this scenario and it would all be a slippery downhill slide. I have several friends at the grandmother end who are wearing this stress (as well as trying to live their own lives) and actually being diagnosed with depression -as their young daughters are struggling
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Pinky wrote Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Hi there Pinky, It seems you're being swamped by us deviant life forms who continue to put our babe's to our breast long after society thinks we should have stopped!! I'm in Adelaide, so not sure if that helps you :), am breastfeeding my 23 month old, and tandem fed with my now 4 1/2 year old for about 8 months. Love to help you if I can. Tania Smallwood -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Hi Barb, Thanks, Ive just accepted the other offers for PP -what a scream! - an interview of breastfed kids - I might do that for a natural parenting mag -will check out some of the more avant guard mainstreamers too (Junior magazine have asked if I would like to write for them - www.juniormagazine.co.uk -they've had some controversial/ unusual articles ) - My daughter Larissa (now almost 23 and almost a psychologist) was around 51/2 when she tried to have a booby to help ease the pain of an ear infection (she hadnt nursed for a few weeks -Sarah -then 2 was still nursing as well so there was plenty of milk) . As she tried to nibble she looked up matter-of- factly and said I think I've lost my sucking reflex -that was her 'weaning'. She would be a great expert. Now that is food for thought! Pinky - Original Message - From: barbara glare chris bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Dear Pinky, I'm still breastfeeding Cassie who is 5 and a half. You could interview her! She speaks quite eloquently about breastfeeding and breastmilk. I could easily set you up with a few longer term breastfeeders for interviews, and have some great photos of toddlers breastfeeding. Love, Barb ABAPoster and Calendar orders [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neretlis, Bethany [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:08 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep pinky, i have fed both my girls for 2 years each. unfortunately, i ceased feeding 10 months ago. i am also a midwife. if there is any way i can help you with any breastfeeding articles, please leet me know. bethany -Original Message- From: Pinky McKay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 19:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Yeah - how about Extending the Breast -reckon they'd cop that? (Im sure there has to be an angle -??soft and round - squished between grasping little fingers?) Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Ill check with Mara (the ed) -I bet they havent done one about THAT in the recent (or distant) past. Pinky. - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and astounds me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some common-sense mothering with your advice. They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies over the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I think the last one ended up FTP and C/S. Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of breast-feeding soon?? Cheryl From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called Joined at The Hip -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame approach (or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 breech births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies that I havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones. Pinky - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I must agree with Pinky as well And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they call it controlled crying so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them anyway. Sad. I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and there it was: BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night (in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Hi Tania and all you other deviates -I now have started a file - Breastfeeders -and plopped all your emails into it -My wee small brain is ticking very loudly -I think people do need to hear that babies really, actually benefit from breastfeeding as long as it goes on (and on).And why shouldnt we have a voice, that all is well and sure there are some challenges (mostly from other people), but we arent all martyrs or co-dependents or the one i 'love' - doing it for ourselves! I had a disagreement with a GP some years ago when she scoffed that I was breastfeeding James at 3 - and told me there was no goodness after 3 MONTHS! (We were also having a debate about immunisation -I was scared she would call welfare by the time I finished but I couldnt sit quietly and listen to such rot) Many years later (her clinic is conveniently close and she is otherwise a good doctor/ we dont get sick often -I didnt need baby advice any more) I took Sarah along with tonsilitis -This dr looked up her charts -to discover Sarah hadnt been sick at all for several years -in fact only had a couple of minor illnesses at all -ever. She said, your children really are very healthy arent they -she now has a poster for my crying book in her waiting room and a copy out for mums to look at. Pinky - Original Message - From: Tom, Tania and Sam Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Pinky wrote Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Hi there Pinky, It seems you're being swamped by us deviant life forms who continue to put our babe's to our breast long after society thinks we should have stopped!! I'm in Adelaide, so not sure if that helps you :), am breastfeeding my 23 month old, and tandem fed with my now 4 1/2 year old for about 8 months. Love to help you if I can. Tania Smallwood -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Tania Love your response deviant life forms indeed Denise - Original Message - From: Tom, Tania and Sam Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Pinky wrote Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Hi there Pinky, It seems you're being swamped by us deviant life forms who continue to put our babe's to our breast long after society thinks we should have stopped!! I'm in Adelaide, so not sure if that helps you :), am breastfeeding my 23 month old, and tandem fed with my now 4 1/2 year old for about 8 months. Love to help you if I can. Tania Smallwood -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Pinky Thank you for this I it made me chuckle denise - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Barb, Thanks, Ive just accepted the other offers for PP -what a scream! - an interview of breastfed kids - I might do that for a natural parenting mag -will check out some of the more avant guard mainstreamers too (Junior magazine have asked if I would like to write for them - www.juniormagazine.co.uk -they've had some controversial/ unusual articles ) - My daughter Larissa (now almost 23 and almost a psychologist) was around 51/2 when she tried to have a booby to help ease the pain of an ear infection (she hadnt nursed for a few weeks -Sarah -then 2 was still nursing as well so there was plenty of milk) . As she tried to nibble she looked up matter-of- factly and said I think I've lost my sucking reflex -that was her 'weaning'. She would be a great expert. Now that is food for thought! Pinky - Original Message - From: barbara glare chris bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Dear Pinky, I'm still breastfeeding Cassie who is 5 and a half. You could interview her! She speaks quite eloquently about breastfeeding and breastmilk. I could easily set you up with a few longer term breastfeeders for interviews, and have some great photos of toddlers breastfeeding. Love, Barb ABAPoster and Calendar orders [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neretlis, Bethany [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:08 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep pinky, i have fed both my girls for 2 years each. unfortunately, i ceased feeding 10 months ago. i am also a midwife. if there is any way i can help you with any breastfeeding articles, please leet me know. bethany -Original Message- From: Pinky McKay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 19:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Yeah - how about Extending the Breast -reckon they'd cop that? (Im sure there has to be an angle -??soft and round - squished between grasping little fingers?) Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Ill check with Mara (the ed) -I bet they havent done one about THAT in the recent (or distant) past. Pinky. - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and astounds me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some common-sense mothering with your advice. They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies over the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I think the last one ended up FTP and C/S. Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of breast-feeding soon?? Cheryl From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called Joined at The Hip -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame approach (or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 breech births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies that I havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones. Pinky - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I must agree with Pinky as well And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they call it controlled crying so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them anyway. Sad. I went to this website
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Have just been speaking to Larissa on the phone - mentioned I may need to interview her - her most vivid 'mammary' is having conjunctivitis when she was little and me squirting breastmilk into her sticky eye! Pinky - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:16 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Pinky Thank you for this I it made me chuckle denise - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Hi Barb, Thanks, Ive just accepted the other offers for PP -what a scream! - an interview of breastfed kids - I might do that for a natural parenting mag -will check out some of the more avant guard mainstreamers too (Junior magazine have asked if I would like to write for them - www.juniormagazine.co.uk -they've had some controversial/ unusual articles ) - My daughter Larissa (now almost 23 and almost a psychologist) was around 51/2 when she tried to have a booby to help ease the pain of an ear infection (she hadnt nursed for a few weeks -Sarah -then 2 was still nursing as well so there was plenty of milk) . As she tried to nibble she looked up matter-of- factly and said I think I've lost my sucking reflex -that was her 'weaning'. She would be a great expert. Now that is food for thought! Pinky - Original Message - From: barbara glare chris bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Dear Pinky, I'm still breastfeeding Cassie who is 5 and a half. You could interview her! She speaks quite eloquently about breastfeeding and breastmilk. I could easily set you up with a few longer term breastfeeders for interviews, and have some great photos of toddlers breastfeeding. Love, Barb ABAPoster and Calendar orders [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neretlis, Bethany [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:08 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep pinky, i have fed both my girls for 2 years each. unfortunately, i ceased feeding 10 months ago. i am also a midwife. if there is any way i can help you with any breastfeeding articles, please leet me know. bethany -Original Message- From: Pinky McKay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 19:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Yeah - how about Extending the Breast -reckon they'd cop that? (Im sure there has to be an angle -??soft and round - squished between grasping little fingers?) Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Ill check with Mara (the ed) -I bet they havent done one about THAT in the recent (or distant) past. Pinky. - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and astounds me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some common-sense mothering with your advice. They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies over the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I think the last one ended up FTP and C/S. Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of breast-feeding soon?? Cheryl From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called Joined at The Hip -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame approach (or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 breech births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies that I havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones. Pinky - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I must agree
RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Dear Pinky I am breastfeeding my 2 year old (who will be 3 in August) and my 4 week old baby. So let me know if I can be of any assistance. By the way - I don't think I have posted to this list that I had another wonderful homebirth. I now have a daughter called Lia Rose (such a surprise - I fully expected to have another boy). Cheers Jane Palmer Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of jo hunter Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 11:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Pinky wrote Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Hi Pinky, Jo Hunter here - I'm still breastfeeding my 20 month old daughter and know of a few other women breastfeeding their toddlers who I'm sure would be willing to be interviewed! Love your work! Jo HAS Coordinator Homebirth mum to 4 INNATE BIRTH CBEducator and doula -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Hugs and Congratulations Jane -I didnt realise you were pregnant. I will contact you offlist -and you are in my file too. Pinky - Original Message - From: Jane Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:37 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Dear Pinky I am breastfeeding my 2 year old (who will be 3 in August) and my 4 week old baby. So let me know if I can be of any assistance. By the way - I don't think I have posted to this list that I had another wonderful homebirth. I now have a daughter called Lia Rose (such a surprise - I fully expected to have another boy). Cheers Jane Palmer Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of jo hunter Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 11:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Pinky wrote Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old right now) willing to be interviewed? Hi Pinky, Jo Hunter here - I'm still breastfeeding my 20 month old daughter and know of a few other women breastfeeding their toddlers who I'm sure would be willing to be interviewed! Love your work! Jo HAS Coordinator Homebirth mum to 4 INNATE BIRTH CBEducator and doula -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
I can still remember my grandson, then almost 2 assisting his mum with the yumps (lumps)after his little sister was bor. My daughter said that a breast feeding toddler should be standard issue with any new baby! Judy Giesaitis -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see
Saturdays Age -re 25 year olds and the stress these women are under - career/
study etc -not at all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with
unrealistic expectations,to this scenario and it would all be a slippery
downhill slide.
I have several friends at the grandmother end who
are wearing this stress (as well astrying to live their own
lives)and actually being diagnosed with depression -as their young
daughters are struggling with mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we
all need to learn to slow up somehow and reach out to each other more. It
seems prescriptions (which I am not knocking either, as they are a definite
lifeline, just the irony that they are offered as the 'fix') are needed to cope
with things that should be helped by support - yet the community for honoring
mothering isnt really there and our life pace is getting so fast. Or could it be
these new mums are part of a generation who missed out on nurturing
themselves?
There is a saying - "happiness is not in things it
is in us" but perhaps it really isnt "in us" if we are stressed from birth and
as infants -and possibly predisposed to react more sensitively to work/life
stress. There is evidence that excess stress hormones -iecortisol can "shrink"/
alterparts of the brain - at any age(I am just waiting for a new
desk to arrive so all my stuff is inaccessible but had some interesting notes
from a neuro psychologist at Monash on this). So if women were already living
under stress, then they would be close to the 'edge' andababy could
be the final 'straw'.
I am not sure how much of this stress
is due to perception and expectations - surely mothers/ people in
generalhavent always been so unhappy.
Pinky
- Original Message -
From:
Marilyn
Kleidon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:18
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby
Sleep
I totally agree with both Darren and Pinky as I
am sure most everyone on the list does. However if you go to the Forums on
that website, you see a whole other experience. It seems many new
mothers have a very unrealistic expectation about being a mother, and not much
has changed in 30 years of the expectations of many men. Of course these
expectations are reinforced by family and friends.
The sad thing that seems to be hitting me
over the head as I work on the postnatal ward is that I think many women are
latently (is that the right word) depressed: I mean just marginally below the
surface of true clinical depression. And so it doesn't take much to tip them
over the edge of not coping. They are not happy, they are barely coping with
life, in short they are doing it tough. Maybe I am over reacting, I hope so.
AndI don't think a mental health referral would help any more than a
sleep baby sleep program. HoweverI do think these baby sleep marketeers
are taking advantage of a climate of unhappiness.
marilyn
- Original Message -
From:
Darren Sunn
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:21
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby
Sleep
I agree with Pinky,
Sleep managment masqurades as
many forms (controlled crying etc.)
There exits undue pressure not
only from your own family but from relatives and friends to implement some
form of sleep modification. Especially when bith of you have had no sleep
for days , your moody and feeling distressed.
Our beautiful child is 12 months
now and he recently went through a 2 week period of waking every hour.
Needless to say we spent a lot of time supporting each other and I explained
to my work collegues that i wasn't going to be much use..(ha ha).
That was only a few weeks back
and now he is sleeping with only one or 2 wakes a night.(ps he does sleep
with us also).
He did have his molars
comming through and I definately believe they effected his sleeping
patterns.
Babies and their families need
support and reassurance, not systems of behaviour modification.
Darren
- Original Message -
From:
Pinky McKay
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:06
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby
Sleep
YUk!!!
Sounds cruel and a rip off to me - have you
seen the Australian association of Infant mental health policy on
controlled crying (settling techniques included) -I have a copy if anyone
wants to email me offlist (so I can attach). I will try and get it onto my
website soon.
BTW - they recommend my books as an
alternative to CC.
I had a mum at my infant massage class last
week - with a beautiful 3 month old - very
RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
I must agree
with Pinky as well
And I call it
the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they call it
"controlled crying" so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the old CRY
IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry , cry, cry
until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a very stressful
cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or not, since mum and
dad won't come to comfort them anyway. Sad.
I went to
this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and there it was:
BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that promotes this
CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut the night feeds and
even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night (in case they wake
up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad.
Andthe
worst thingis that these people have plenty of room in the media, I always
hear them talking on the radio as "specialists" or "experts in sleep methods",
"experts in parenting"
And they do
have an audience!
May God have
mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship are these people
creating by establishing that pattern?
Jackie
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Pinky
McKaySent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby
Sleep
I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see
Saturdays Age -re 25 year olds and the stress these women are under - career/
study etc -not at all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with
unrealistic expectations,to this scenario and it would all be a slippery
downhill slide.
I have several friends at the grandmother end who
are wearing this stress (as well astrying to live their own
lives)and actually being diagnosed with depression -as their young
daughters are struggling with mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we
all need to learn to slow up somehow and reach out to each other more.
It seems prescriptions (which I am not knocking either, as they are a definite
lifeline, just the irony that they are offered as the 'fix') are needed to
cope with things that should be helped by support - yet the community for
honoring mothering isnt really there and our life pace is getting so fast. Or
could it be these new mums are part of a generation who missed out on
nurturing themselves?
There is a saying - "happiness is not in things
it is in us" but perhaps it really isnt "in us" if we are stressed from birth
and as infants -and possibly predisposed to react more sensitively to
work/life stress. There is evidence that excess stress hormones -iecortisol
can "shrink"/ alterparts of the brain - at any age(I am just
waiting for a new desk to arrive so all my stuff is inaccessible but had some
interesting notes from a neuro psychologist at Monash on this). So if women
were already living under stress, then they would be close to the 'edge'
andababy could be the final 'straw'.
I am not sure how much of this stress
is due to perception and expectations - surely mothers/ people in
generalhavent always been so unhappy.
Pinky
- Original Message -
From:
Marilyn
Kleidon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:18
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby
Sleep
I totally agree with both Darren and Pinky as I
am sure most everyone on the list does. However if you go to the Forums on
that website, you see a whole other experience. It seems many new
mothers have a very unrealistic expectation about being a mother, and not
much has changed in 30 years of the expectations of many men. Of course
these expectations are reinforced by family and friends.
The sad thing that seems to be hitting me
over the head as I work on the postnatal ward is that I think many women are
latently (is that the right word) depressed: I mean just marginally below
the surface of true clinical depression. And so it doesn't take much to tip
them over the edge of not coping. They are not happy, they are barely coping
with life, in short they are doing it tough. Maybe I am over reacting, I
hope so. AndI don't think a mental health referral would help any more
than a sleep baby sleep program. HoweverI do think these baby sleep
marketeers are taking advantage of a climate of unhappiness.
marilyn
- Original Message -
From:
Darren Sunn
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:21
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby
Sleep
I agree with
Pinky,
Sleep managment masqurades as
many forms (controlled cryin
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Hi Jackie,
Yes they certainly do have an audience - the
avoiding eye contact is an integral part of sleep training - it is "justified'
as reducing stimulation - ie put the baby facing away from you even as a tiny
infant - how does this inspire trust?
It seems such an uphill battle against these
underminers of mothers confidence - it so goes against every crumb of parents
instinct to ignore a baby's distress, but each letter from a parent spurs me on
. I have just receivd an email from a mum of a 17 month old whose MIL gave her a
copy of Parenting By Heart when her bub was younger - she has been down the CIO
path and now keeps referring to my book -the sleep section - her bub goes
to bed happilyin his cot but wakes and sleeps the rest of the night with
his parents - she loves this and is sad she bothered to struggle with controlled
crying - also called controlled comforting - now thats a euphimism!
I am having a stand at KIDSEXPO in Melb (*11-13
July)- Robin Barker is the "drawcard"parenting expert speaker - last year
her entire talk was how to control cry your baby - the ABA counsellor who had a
stand next to mine came back from listening utterly furious - the ABA stand was
between TWeddle and mine - Tweddle -sold heaps of copies of their book -"Sleep
Right Sleep Tight" which is a recipe for CC -charts and all. I felt like
offering parents a swap as I saw these books and was so tempted to say - 'go and
get a refund -your baby will thank you' - most were pregnant so they didnt even
have babies yet were already influenced.
Have decided I will get a big sign that says
Recommended by Australian Association of Infant mental Health and see iof it
stirs any discussion - did you know that large booksellers (AR and
Dymocks)have a "core list" - and the CC books feature very
strongly.
Gr.
Pinky
- Original Message -
From:
Jaqueline
Marwick
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby
Sleep
I must
agree with Pinky as well
And I call
it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they
call it "controlled crying" so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the
old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry ,
cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a
very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or
not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them anyway.
Sad.
I went to
this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and there it was:
BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that promotes
this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut the night
feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night (in case they
wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad.
Andthe worst thingis that these people have plenty
of room in the media, I always hear them talking on the radio as "specialists"
or "experts in sleep methods", "experts in parenting"
And they do
have an audience!
May God
have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship are these
people creating by establishing that pattern?
Jackie
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Pinky
McKaySent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep
Baby Sleep
I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see
Saturdays Age -re 25 year olds and the stress these women are under -
career/ study etc -not at all about mothers, but add mothering, especially
with unrealistic expectations,to this scenario and it would all be a
slippery downhill slide.
I have several friends at the grandmother end
who are wearing this stress (as well astrying to live their own
lives)and actually being diagnosed with depression -as their young
daughters are struggling with mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe
we all need to learn to slow up somehow and reach out to each other
more. It seems prescriptions (which I am not knocking either, as they
are a definite lifeline, just the irony that they are offered as the 'fix')
are needed to cope with things that should be helped by support - yet the
community for honoring mothering isnt really there and our life pace is
getting so fast. Or could it be these new mums are part of a generation who
missed out on nurturing themselves?
There is a saying - "happiness is not in things
it is in us" but perhaps it really isnt "in us" if we are stressed from
birth and as infants -and possibly predisposed to react more sensitively to
work/life stress. There is evidence that excess stress horm
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of
Practical Parenting is I Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out
(July)is called "Joined at The Hip" -about Velcro babies and why
carrying is good for babies. August isco-sleeping. I only get 500 words so
its a tame approach (or I mightnt get it past)but the seeds are
sown.
The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an
article about 3 breech births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about
episiotomies that I havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on
these ones.
Pinky
- Original Message -
From:
Jaqueline
Marwick
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby
Sleep
I must
agree with Pinky as well
And I call
it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they
call it "controlled crying" so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the
old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry ,
cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a
very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or
not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them anyway.
Sad.
I went to
this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and there it was:
BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that promotes
this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut the night
feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night (in case they
wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad.
Andthe worst thingis that these people have plenty
of room in the media, I always hear them talking on the radio as "specialists"
or "experts in sleep methods", "experts in parenting"
And they do
have an audience!
May God
have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship are these
people creating by establishing that pattern?
Jackie
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Pinky
McKaySent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep
Baby Sleep
I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see
Saturdays Age -re 25 year olds and the stress these women are under -
career/ study etc -not at all about mothers, but add mothering, especially
with unrealistic expectations,to this scenario and it would all be a
slippery downhill slide.
I have several friends at the grandmother end
who are wearing this stress (as well astrying to live their own
lives)and actually being diagnosed with depression -as their young
daughters are struggling with mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe
we all need to learn to slow up somehow and reach out to each other
more. It seems prescriptions (which I am not knocking either, as they
are a definite lifeline, just the irony that they are offered as the 'fix')
are needed to cope with things that should be helped by support - yet the
community for honoring mothering isnt really there and our life pace is
getting so fast. Or could it be these new mums are part of a generation who
missed out on nurturing themselves?
There is a saying - "happiness is not in things
it is in us" but perhaps it really isnt "in us" if we are stressed from
birth and as infants -and possibly predisposed to react more sensitively to
work/life stress. There is evidence that excess stress hormones -iecortisol
can "shrink"/ alterparts of the brain - at any age(I am just
waiting for a new desk to arrive so all my stuff is inaccessible but had
some interesting notes from a neuro psychologist at Monash on this). So if
women were already living under stress, then they would be close to the
'edge' andababy could be the final 'straw'.
I am not sure how much of this
stress is due to perception and expectations - surely mothers/ people in
generalhavent always been so unhappy.
Pinky
- Original Message -
From:
Marilyn Kleidon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:18
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby
Sleep
I totally agree with both Darren and Pinky as
I am sure most everyone on the list does. However if you go to the Forums
on that website, you see a whole other experience. It seems many new
mothers have a very unrealistic expectation about being a mother, and not
much has changed in 30 years of the expectations of many men. Of course
these expectations are reinforced by family and friends.
The sad thing that seems to be hitting
me over the hea
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
Interesting conversations about this. I keep on thinking about the ideal of the superwoman, as I believe someone has mentioned before. Is our society creating permanent anxiety for everyone - especially women? The norms and values of our society seem to be geared toward the unattainable. The perfect everything - body, couple, career, house, and children (lets throw in the car and pets as well). In our strive to be part of this society - to attain the norms and values - we constantly fail. Yet, if someone were to offer an answer (most likely scientifically or managerially based) we seem to snap it up. The answer that allows us to still pursue perfection. We are frustrated with people who are only conforming to the norms and values of our society. I guess that is the most frustrating part! - The understanding of what our society is. Just a thought- not especially well formulated - but a thought nevertheless Take care everyone Alphia At 09:07 AM 24/06/03 +1000, you wrote: Hi Jackie, Yes they certainly do have an audience - the avoiding eye contact is an integral part of sleep training - it is justified' as reducing stimulation - ie put the baby facing away from you even as a tiny infant - how does this inspire trust? It seems such an uphill battle against these underminers of mothers confidence - it so goes against every crumb of parents instinct to ignore a baby's distress, but each letter from a parent spurs me on . I have just receivd an email from a mum of a 17 month old whose MIL gave her a copy of Parenting By Heart when her bub was younger - she has been down the CIO path and now keeps referring to my book -the sleep section - her bub goes to bed happily in his cot but wakes and sleeps the rest of the night with his parents - she loves this and is sad she bothered to struggle with controlled crying - also called controlled comforting - now thats a euphimism! I am having a stand at KIDSEXPO in Melb (*11-13 July)- Robin Barker is the drawcardparenting expert speaker - last year her entire talk was how to control cry your baby - the ABA counsellor who had a stand next to mine came back from listening utterly furious - the ABA stand was between TWeddle and mine - Tweddle -sold heaps of copies of their book -Sleep Right Sleep Tight which is a recipe for CC -charts and all. I felt like offering parents a swap as I saw these books and was so tempted to say - 'go and get a refund -your baby will thank you' - most were pregnant so they didnt even have babies yet were already influenced. Have decided I will get a big sign that says Recommended by Australian Association of Infant mental Health and see iof it stirs any discussion - did you know that large booksellers (AR and Dymocks) have a core list - and the CC books feature very strongly. Gr. Pinky - Original Message - From: Jaqueline Marwick To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I must agree with Pinky as well And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. Now they call it controlled crying so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them anyway. Sad. I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and there it was: BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night (in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad. And the worst thing is that these people have plenty of room in the media, I always hear them talking on the radio as specialists or experts in sleep methods, experts in parenting And they do have an audience! May God have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship are these people creating by establishing that pattern? Jackie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Pinky McKay Sent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see Saturdays Age -re 25 year olds and the stress these women are under - career/ study etc -not at all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with unrealistic expectations, to this scenario and it would all be a slippery downhill slide. I have several friends at the grandmother end who are wearing this stress (as well as trying to live their own lives) and actually being diagnosed with depression -as their young daughters are struggling with mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we all need to learn to slow up somehow and reach out to each other more. It seems prescriptions
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
YUk!!! Sounds cruel and a rip off to me - have you seen the Australian association of Infant mental health policy on controlled crying (settling techniques included) -I have a copy if anyone wants to email me offlist (so I can attach). I will try and get it onto my website soon. BTW - they recommend my books as an alternative to CC. I had a mum at my infant massage class last week - with a beautiful 3 month old - very upset and confused as her MCH had told her her baby a) should be sleepinglonger (and alone - she co-sleeps) b) she shouldnt allow him to fall asleep in the sling and c) if he breastfeeds to sleep this will cause insomnia as he will wake -ALL NIGHT - seeking a breast.Thankfully there was a wonderfully sensible mum of a seven month old whose baby had just gently weaned off bedtime booby who was able to reinforce that the baby knows what it is ready for - without force. We talked about how mothers can nurture themselves/ pressures/ make life simpleretc -then I gave homework - a "jarmy/ cocoonday" - feedback was very positive about how much they struggled with pressure to be superwoman - and how much it really didnt matter that they left the dishes etc - it was all still there or not important once they did getback into things. I am sure many of these mums are just very pressured that their babies are not behaving "properly" -there is a lot of performance anxiety rather than actual exhaustion, and if exhaustion is the case - why? What is the mother trying to do as well as mother and bond with her baby? -especially when many of these bubs are less than 6 weeks old - the traditional lying in time. Could the mother have PND and all theblame is being laid on the baby? How can the mum nurture herself and could she try some gentle techniques to help baby sleep a bit "better" - ie massage/ relaxation bath/ 'topup feed' last thing before she goes to bed -without waking baby(breastmilk if bub is breastfed), minimising stimulation at bedtime - how many mums have TV on -this is a bombardmernt of new-born senses? Examine mums diet - ??high in salicylates/ caffeine etcwhich could make bub restless. ?Food intolerance. There are lots of simple commonsense things that should be passed on mother to mother without charging $500 - It really shows that not only birth and breastfeeding, but infant sleep management is medicalised as well - Im not having a go at LCs here -I just feel we can see things as problematic when it should all be a natural process; I feel the need for breastfeeding interventionis real butlikelydue toissues surrounding birth - ?? are all these things a follow-on from managed birth -are we all that desperate for control? - and, would surrendering at birth help mothers surrender to the natural forces of mothering? I believe it would. Pinky www.pinky-mychild.com - Original Message - From: hplerchbacher To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Dear Wise Listers, Has anyone heard of this program called "Sleep Baby Sleep". One of the woman emailed someone and had quote of this superb course to positive routine management for $500. Please check out the website www.sleepbabysleep.net I told the woman and her husband to utilise local support instead. Is this a scam? Ping ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: 16/06/2003
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
I agree with Pinky, Sleep managment masqurades as many forms (controlled crying etc.) There exits undue pressure not only from your own family but from relatives and friends to implement some form of sleep modification. Especially when bith of you have had no sleep for days , your moody and feeling distressed. Our beautiful child is 12 months now and he recently went through a 2 week period of waking every hour. Needless to say we spent a lot of time supporting each other and I explained to my work collegues that i wasn't going to be much use..(ha ha). That was only a few weeks back and now he is sleeping with only one or 2 wakes a night.(ps he does sleep with us also). He did have his molars comming through and I definately believe they effected his sleeping patterns. Babies and their families need support and reassurance, not systems of behaviour modification. Darren - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep YUk!!! Sounds cruel and a rip off to me - have you seen the Australian association of Infant mental health policy on controlled crying (settling techniques included) -I have a copy if anyone wants to email me offlist (so I can attach). I will try and get it onto my website soon. BTW - they recommend my books as an alternative to CC. I had a mum at my infant massage class last week - with a beautiful 3 month old - very upset and confused as her MCH had told her her baby a) should be sleepinglonger (and alone - she co-sleeps) b) she shouldnt allow him to fall asleep in the sling and c) if he breastfeeds to sleep this will cause insomnia as he will wake -ALL NIGHT - seeking a breast.Thankfully there was a wonderfully sensible mum of a seven month old whose baby had just gently weaned off bedtime booby who was able to reinforce that the baby knows what it is ready for - without force. We talked about how mothers can nurture themselves/ pressures/ make life simpleretc -then I gave homework - a "jarmy/ cocoonday" - feedback was very positive about how much they struggled with pressure to be superwoman - and how much it really didnt matter that they left the dishes etc - it was all still there or not important once they did getback into things. I am sure many of these mums are just very pressured that their babies are not behaving "properly" -there is a lot of performance anxiety rather than actual exhaustion, and if exhaustion is the case - why? What is the mother trying to do as well as mother and bond with her baby? -especially when many of these bubs are less than 6 weeks old - the traditional lying in time. Could the mother have PND and all theblame is being laid on the baby? How can the mum nurture herself and could she try some gentle techniques to help baby sleep a bit "better" - ie massage/ relaxation bath/ 'topup feed' last thing before she goes to bed -without waking baby(breastmilk if bub is breastfed), minimising stimulation at bedtime - how many mums have TV on -this is a bombardmernt of new-born senses? Examine mums diet - ??high in salicylates/ caffeine etcwhich could make bub restless. ?Food intolerance. There are lots of simple commonsense things that should be passed on mother to mother without charging $500 - It really shows that not only birth and breastfeeding, but infant sleep management is medicalised as well - Im not having a go at LCs here -I just feel we can see things as problematic when it should all be a natural process; I feel the need for breastfeeding interventionis real butlikelydue toissues surrounding birth - ?? are all these things a follow-on from managed birth -are we all that desperate for control? - and, would surrendering at birth help mothers surrender to the natural forces of mothering? I believe it would. Pinky www.pinky-mychild.com - Original Message - From: hplerchbacher To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep Dear Wise Listers, Has anyone heard of this program called "Sleep Baby Sleep". One of the woman emailed someone and had quote of this superb course to positive routine management for $500. Please check out the website www.sleepbabysleep.net I told the woman and her husband to utilise local support instead. Is this a scam? Ping ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: 16/06/2003
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
I totally agree with both Darren and Pinky as I am sure most everyone on the list does. However if you go to the Forums on that website, you see a whole other experience. It seems many new mothers have a very unrealistic expectation about being a mother, and not much has changed in 30 years of the expectations of many men. Of course these expectations are reinforced by family and friends. The sad thing that seems to be hitting me over the head as I work on the postnatal ward is that I think many women are latently (is that the right word) depressed: I mean just marginally below the surface of true clinical depression. And so it doesn't take much to tip them over the edge of not coping. They are not happy, they are barely coping with life, in short they are doing it tough. Maybe I am over reacting, I hope so. AndI don't think a mental health referral would help any more than a sleep baby sleep program. HoweverI do think these baby sleep marketeers are taking advantage of a climate of unhappiness. marilyn - Original Message - From: Darren Sunn To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep I agree with Pinky, Sleep managment masqurades as many forms (controlled crying etc.) There exits undue pressure not only from your own family but from relatives and friends to implement some form of sleep modification. Especially when bith of you have had no sleep for days , your moody and feeling distressed. Our beautiful child is 12 months now and he recently went through a 2 week period of waking every hour. Needless to say we spent a lot of time supporting each other and I explained to my work collegues that i wasn't going to be much use..(ha ha). That was only a few weeks back and now he is sleeping with only one or 2 wakes a night.(ps he does sleep with us also). He did have his molars comming through and I definately believe they effected his sleeping patterns. Babies and their families need support and reassurance, not systems of behaviour modification. Darren - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep YUk!!! Sounds cruel and a rip off to me - have you seen the Australian association of Infant mental health policy on controlled crying (settling techniques included) -I have a copy if anyone wants to email me offlist (so I can attach). I will try and get it onto my website soon. BTW - they recommend my books as an alternative to CC. I had a mum at my infant massage class last week - with a beautiful 3 month old - very upset and confused as her MCH had told her her baby a) should be sleepinglonger (and alone - she co-sleeps) b) she shouldnt allow him to fall asleep in the sling and c) if he breastfeeds to sleep this will cause insomnia as he will wake -ALL NIGHT - seeking a breast.Thankfully there was a wonderfully sensible mum of a seven month old whose baby had just gently weaned off bedtime booby who was able to reinforce that the baby knows what it is ready for - without force. We talked about how mothers can nurture themselves/ pressures/ make life simpleretc -then I gave homework - a "jarmy/ cocoonday" - feedback was very positive about how much they struggled with pressure to be superwoman - and how much it really didnt matter that they left the dishes etc - it was all still there or not important once they did getback into things. I am sure many of these mums are just very pressured that their babies are not behaving "properly" -there is a lot of performance anxiety rather than actual exhaustion, and if exhaustion is the case - why? What is the mother trying to do as well as mother and bond with her baby? -especially when many of these bubs are less than 6 weeks old - the traditional lying in time. Could the mother have PND and all theblame is being laid on the baby? How can the mum nurture herself and could she try some gentle techniques to help baby sleep a bit "better" - ie massage/ relaxation bath/ 'topup feed' last thing before she goes to bed -without waking baby(breastmilk if bub is breastfed), minimising stimulation at bedtime - how many mums have TV on -this is a bombardmernt of new-born senses? Examine mums diet - ??high in salicylates/ caffeine etcwhich could make bub restless. ?Food intolerance. There are lots of simple commonsense things that should be passed on mother to mother without charging $500 - It really shows that not only birth and breastfeeding, but infant sleep management is medicalised as well - Im not having a
