Re: GESO: Blueswoman Ana Popovic
Thanks to all those who commented and made choices. So the most liked pictures are 12, 7 and 14. OK, I shall not fail to include them into my book. Thanks again. Dario - Original Message - From: Tim Øsleby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:20 PM Subject: Re: GESO: Blueswoman Ana Popovic Dario Bonazza wrote: Hi folks, Here's a gallery of concert pictures of Ana Popovic band, shot by me a few months ago: http://www.dariobonazza.com/anae.htm Is there any picture you like? Which ones would you pick? Thanks. Dario A nice collection Dario. I prefer #12 MaritimTim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
December PUG Theme?
Must have missed it. What is the December PUG theme? Cheers Mike -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
Boris Liberman escribió: Brand new Tamron costs here order of $450, which considering that I already have it shipped, taxes paid and also covered with at least 1 year warranty, I reckon is a good price. Here it costs more or less the same, VAT included. If I remember well, you were interested in reading a review of the DA 17-70. I have found one: http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=3676review=pentax+17-70mm Carlos -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Dodge Challenger Race Package
Cotty escribió: On 15/11/08, Carlos Royo, discombobulated, unleashed: Was the SR on? The manuals in Pentax cameras advise against using SR in panning shots, as it can malfunction and cause strange effects. What? Pentax SR does not have *2 modes* like 'all-your-eggs-in-one- basket' Canon IS lenses do?!?!? I think it is the usual disclaimer, in case you find any problems. I haven't seen such problem in real photography with my K10D, but who knows... Carlos -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: December PUG Theme?
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 04:26:36 -0500, Beaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Must have missed it. What is the December PUG theme? Cheers Mike Landscape and Nature The themes are published here: http://pug.komkon.org/general/themes.html Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
Thanks, Carlos. Unfortunately, this review only supports the same issues that had been stated on the list earlier. And it seems that the sharpness fall off towards the borders of the frame is indicative of certain degree of field curvature of this lens. Tamron 17-50/2.8 is both cheaper, faster and probably not significantly worse in other respects. Although it does not have SDM and full time manual focus override. Otherwise, Tamron 17-50/2.8 seems not worse of a choice to me. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Carlos Royo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here it costs more or less the same, VAT included. If I remember well, you were interested in reading a review of the DA 17-70. I have found one: http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=3676review=pentax+17-70mm Carlos -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
Boris, Why not wait for the Tamron 10-24 and pair it with the 28-75? I believe it's been released in Canon and Nikon mounts with Pentax and Sony to follow soon. I've yet to find a review of the 10-24 but if it's as good as my 28-75 Di I'm in the market for one...anyone looking to buy a lightly used Sigma 10-20 EX? lol. John From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 16 November 2008 04:11 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux Well, Christine, I suppose I ought to clarify here. Christine Aguila wrote: Boris: I don't mean to nit-pick here, and maybe I'm just reading your post wrong, but you seem to assess any drawback as a serious drawback. You'd agree, wouldn't you, that some drawbacks are more serious than others? If so, it seems to me the DA 16-45 would fair fairly well in lens assessment. Maybe I'm reading your post wrong. If so, just ignore. :-) Cheers, Christine I've a Tamron 28-75/2.8 that I bought from a fellow PDMLer (well, PDMLeress, in fact, but that's beside the point). It is just shines. It has certain problems as well, but they are minor. If Pentax comes up with full frame body, all my problems will be solved then. I will have moderate wide to moderate tele walk around lens at the ready. Above Tamron is the only 3rd party zoom lens that I'd be willing to put on my bodies knowing that I'd get superb image quality from it. We had a company fun day just several days ago. Unfortunately the other photo fellow ;-) couldn't bring his wide angle lens (Nikon 12-24 or something like that) due to battery problems with his camera. So I shot some very fine images, but no wide ones. That's why I am started again on my search for a wider lens. So in a sense, I am looking to replicate speed, sharpness, low distortion (at 28 mm cropped it is not difficult though) and AF precision of Tamron 28-75/2.8. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
I choose bodies for the ergonomics and what's available in the mount, not what's available in 1st party form. Note that most of the currently available FF primes in K mount are not from Pentax, and most of the best of them aren't either (the Zeiss ZK and Voigtlander SLII lines are both at least as good as the equivalent pentax's). I've found that 3rd party lenses can offer superior performance to the 1st party options. And thus I use a mix of 1st and 3rd party lenses (Right now, Sigma, Voigtlander, Kiron and Nikon) -Adam On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 9:21 PM, David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see no point in using Pentax bodies if you are just going to buy 3rd party lenses. I have both the DA 16-45mm the DA* 16-50mm. I was never a big fan of the 16-45 when the 16-50 became available I got one. I've never regretted the decision. My other advice is quit reading lens review sites. They fuck with your head find faults that 99% of the time you will never notice. Cheers, Dave 2008/11/16 Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi! So here is the list of some lenses that I thought about recently and the considerations that may prevent me from buying them. 1. SMCP DA* 16-50/2.8 - serious distortions at wide end, quality control issues still there 2. SMCP DA 17-70/4 SDM - some say it is a sibling of SMCP DA 10-17 fish eye wide end distortion-wise. Perfect otherwise. 3. SMCP DA 16-45/4 - slightly less distortions at wide end, basically ok, though the CAs could be a problem. 4. Tamron 17-50/2.8 - suffers from curvature of field, rather good otherwise 5. Sigma 18-50/2.8 - well, I just don't quite like Sigma, and certain people call Sigma really nasty names 6. SMCP DA 21/3.2 AL Limited - excellent lens, just not wide enough 7. Tamron 17-35/2.8-4 - covers full frame, but also suffers from curvature of field 8. Sigma 17-70/2.8-4.5 - well, another Sigma 9. SMCP FA 20-35/4 - said to be excellent, but expensive and starting to become quite rare these days. No matter how strange this sounds, but it seems that there is no decidedly good lens in 16(17,18)-45(50, 70) range for modern Pentax DSLR. Each lens has some serious drawbacks. So here you have it - a short summary. Please don't kill the scribe. Boris P.S. I already have 21 ltd, it is listed here just for sake of completeness. P.P.S. I should watch for reviews of DA 17-70/4 and some sample shots as well. P.P.P.S. The price on (even brand new) DA 16-45/4 has gone down considerably now... 4P.1S. I have placed an order for Tamron 17-50/2.8 and I may still buy one for lack of better alternative due to its speed and sharpness. Having excellent sample of Tamron 28-75/2.8 has its impact on my reasoning... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
We had a company fun day contradiction in terms. Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman Sent: 16 November 2008 04:12 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux Well, Christine, I suppose I ought to clarify here. Christine Aguila wrote: Boris: I don't mean to nit-pick here, and maybe I'm just reading your post wrong, but you seem to assess any drawback as a serious drawback. You'd agree, wouldn't you, that some drawbacks are more serious than others? If so, it seems to me the DA 16-45 would fair fairly well in lens assessment. Maybe I'm reading your post wrong. If so, just ignore. :-) Cheers, Christine I've a Tamron 28-75/2.8 that I bought from a fellow PDMLer (well, PDMLeress, in fact, but that's beside the point). It is just shines. It has certain problems as well, but they are minor. If Pentax comes up with full frame body, all my problems will be solved then. I will have moderate wide to moderate tele walk around lens at the ready. Above Tamron is the only 3rd party zoom lens that I'd be willing to put on my bodies knowing that I'd get superb image quality from it. We had a company fun day just several days ago. Unfortunately the other photo fellow ;-) couldn't bring his wide angle lens (Nikon 12-24 or something like that) due to battery problems with his camera. So I shot some very fine images, but no wide ones. That's why I am started again on my search for a wider lens. So in a sense, I am looking to replicate speed, sharpness, low distortion (at 28 mm cropped it is not difficult though) and AF precision of Tamron 28-75/2.8. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: FA 1.4/50mm tested by DPReview
On Nov 16, 2008, at 3:13 AM, drew wrote: So, at the end of the day, after all the arguing over semantics is done ;-) Is the damn thing worth the £160 it sells for in the UK? I mean should I ask my wife to get me one for Christmas or look out an older manual focus version? Yes, if a fast 50mm lens is what you would like. It's an excellent portrait tele with the digital bodies. Having had and used the M50/1.4, A50/1.4 and FA50/1.4 lenses, I would take the FA50/1.4 over the other two without question for use on the Pentax DSLR bodies. It provides the best functionality with these bodies due to the FA lens mount and is the same, optically, as the A50/1.4. Both the A and FA series models are better performers, particularly wide open, compared to the M50/1.4. Godfreyu -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
On Nov 16, 2008, at 3:31 AM, Adam Maas wrote: I choose bodies for the ergonomics and what's available in the mount, not what's available in 1st party form. I differ from that in that I don't trust the quality control of third party lens manufacturers on the whole. Carl Zeiss lenses are a notable exception to that generalization, and the Cosina/Voigtländer lenses have proven to be very good as well. I consider those two to be on par with original manufacturers' lens offerings or better. I particularly detest Sigma lenses for their utter lack of consistency. Get a good one and they're likely decent performers, but the odds are stacked against getting a good one in my experience. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: FA 1.4/50mm tested by DPReview
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of drew [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 16 November 2008 11:13 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: FA 1.4/50mm tested by DPReview So, at the end of the day, after all the arguing over semantics is done ;-) Is the damn thing worth the £160 it sells for in the UK? Yes, absolutely! I mean should I ask my wife to get me one for Christmas Sounds like a plan hatching there! or look out an older manual focus version? Cheers, Drew. Jos from Holland wrote: What about depency of eyesight quality? People with reduced eyesight will always enjoy deeper depth of field? :-) Maybe we just have to accept that there is only one subject to lens distance sharp and we are lucky we can choose that point ourselfs (or leave it to the camera) Greetz, Jos Joseph McAllister wrote: Hey dudes, JC is correct on DoF. Chill. Mixing CoC and DoF is a no win argument unless a value of CoC is fixed before you start. You can achieve a deeper DoF from any projected image if you decide after the fact that a sloppier focus (larger CoC) is acceptable in your resultant print or negative, but that is not changing the DoF, only your eyesight. On Nov 14, 2008, at 05:32 , JC OConnell wrote: B.S. in capitols. DOF is format and print size independent. JC O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joseph McAllister Pentaxian -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: FA 1.4/50mm tested by DPReview
So, at the end of the day, after all the arguing over semantics is done ;-) Is the damn thing worth the £160 it sells for in the UK? I mean should I ask my wife to get me one for Christmas or look out an older manual focus version? Cheers, Drew. Jos from Holland wrote: What about depency of eyesight quality? People with reduced eyesight will always enjoy deeper depth of field? :-) Maybe we just have to accept that there is only one subject to lens distance sharp and we are lucky we can choose that point ourselfs (or leave it to the camera) Greetz, Jos Joseph McAllister wrote: Hey dudes, JC is correct on DoF. Chill. Mixing CoC and DoF is a no win argument unless a value of CoC is fixed before you start. You can achieve a deeper DoF from any projected image if you decide after the fact that a sloppier focus (larger CoC) is acceptable in your resultant print or negative, but that is not changing the DoF, only your eyesight. On Nov 14, 2008, at 05:32 , JC OConnell wrote: B.S. in capitols. DOF is format and print size independent. JC O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joseph McAllister Pentaxian -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
Its kinda like TVs. If you get far away enough or go to a tiny screen they eventually will look sharp enough, that's because the circle of confusion changes shape. but no matter how far away or how small a screen you use, you can always see bad color. I'm colourblind. Doesn't matter to me. Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JC OConnell Sent: 16 November 2008 03:04 To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux oh, and never foget, depending on the subject, image size and and print size, the loss of resolution of a zoom compared to a prime may be meaningless, but better contrast/less flare is always visible no matter what size image or print you do. Its kinda like TVs. If you get far away enough or go to a tiny screen they eventually will look sharp enough, but no matter how far away or how small a screen you use, you can always see bad color. JC O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pennington Barn
Thanks, Christine, for taking the time to check out your monitor and report back as I had asked. Even though I don't plan to keep this image very long, I'll desaturate the blue a bit based on your comments. Jack --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Christine Aguila [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Christine Aguila [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pennington Barn To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 9:13 PM Hi Jack: Just calibrated. I still see quite a bit of blue in the shadows. It's a nice picture though, Jack. Just when I saw it, I was a little surprised to see that much blue in the shadows thought my monitor is off--though I don't have a really high end monitor I use the Pro Huey calibrator, not the spyder, so take my comments with a grain of salt . . . :-) Cheers, Christine - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:56 PM Subject: Re: Pennington Barn It is a very blue scene what with sky and water filling so much space. I'd appreciate your commenting after calibrating. Thanks, Christine for commenting. Jack --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Christine Aguila [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Christine Aguila [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pennington Barn To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:43 PM Jack: I'm going to calibrate then look at this again. The composition and reflection is very nice, but the overall color looks very blue on my monitor. After calibration, I'll look again. Cheers, Christine - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:59 PM Subject: PESO: Pennington Barn The Mrs and I took a fall drive around the area earlier today. We went by a barn I've been eying. The adjacent harvested rice field had been flooded in order to rot the rice stubble. Burning is now done on a very limited basis and will be completely discontinued in the near future. The reflection added just enough to make me pull over and do the standard drive by. Jack Comments welcome. http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=347 K20D, FA28~70 f/2.8, f/8, 1/750, ISO 100, hand held -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Geso: The Paris Wall Calendar
Great Calendar. Love the title. Good luck with it. Paul On Nov 16, 2008, at 12:02 AM, ann sanfedele wrote: LInk right to just the wall calendar and selected short subjects is http://www.cafepress.com/annsanstuff/6200804 JUST the wall calendar can be gotten to directly by clicking here: http://www.cafepress.com/annsanstuff.330292282 the smugmug gallery with the 12 that are on the first calendar and more beyond it http://annsan.smugmug.com/gallery/2538645_CM59k God, I hope SOME of this stuff sells! ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Dodge Challenger Race Package
I use the IR remote:-). On Nov 16, 2008, at 1:03 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote: If you do forget to turn the SR off, then don't forget to bump the tripod as you release the shutter. :-)) Joseph McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Nov 15, 2008, at 18:38 , Christine Aguila wrote: And same here. Gosh. I didn't even know I should be turning if off for panning. I know about shutting it off when using a tripod, but I forget to do that too. Cheers, Christine - Original Message - From: Ken Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Same here. - Original Message - From: PN Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] I leave it on when panning. I've also left it on mistakenly when shooting off a tripod. Doesn't seem to make a difference there either, although I try to remember to turn it off. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
You can't get further away from a room interior or the passenger cabin of a car. Sometimes an ultra-wide is a necessity. And if the budget doesn't allow for several, a zoom is a great answer. What's more, today's best zooms compare favorably to most primes. Paul On Nov 16, 2008, at 2:07 AM, Tim Bray wrote: On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:23 PM, JC OConnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see no point is using Pentax bodies if you are just going to buy Pentax Zooms. Go prime young man! :) What he said. The 21mm Limited is so obviously the class of that list, on top of which it's smaller and lighter and indestructible. You'll just have to get a little further away from your subject. -Tim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Hey, I'm 39...
Congrats on your exhibition and your birthday. Your photos look as interesting as always. Carlos Gianfranco Irlanda escribió: Hi everybody! I'll try to put apart my lurking status for a while... It looks like I'm growing older every year (most of us do...) Among the good news, yesterday was the opening of my new exhibition, several years after the last one. A good crowd for an opening, but strangely I didn't take a single shot when the people were there (well, not that strangely, I was constantly shaking hands and hugging friends...) Luckily others took pictures, I hope to have them pretty soon. If you want to have a look at the exhibition shots (a few of them are well known here) not in the same shape as the prints on show, of course - good ol' silver based prints - I have them on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2009813l=e2183id=1283751350 ) So, that's all for now. Ciao, Gianfranco -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
- Original Message - From: Boris Liberman Subject: Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux Bill, I've DA 21/3.2 which is excellent as well. I am looking for a quality every-day most-situations-covered moderate wide to moderate tele reasonably fast zoom lens. Probably the 16-45 then. I've only used one once, and was impressed enough with it's optical quality. I wouldn't buy a 16-50 unless I could go to a store and try it first. They still haven't fixed the assembly problems, so the end user seems to be the first stage of quality control. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
David Savage wrote: In general I agree with that sentiment, but the older FA* and newer the DA* zooms aren't too bad. The FA* 28-70 and 80-200 are friggin' amazing lenses as is the DA*16-50. They're at a disadvantage compared to primes in size and weight (thought they make up for this to an extent because a single zoom replaces several primes). The only real disadvantage is speed; sometimes only a really wide aperture will do. But barring those relatively rare (for me) instances, top tier zooms match all but a rarefied few primes these days. I can see the superiority of my Limited series lenses in close examination under critical circumstances, but I've never had a shot taken with an FA* or DA* zoom that failed to cut the mustard because of optical shortcomings of the lens. My main reason for shooting primes is usually because I love the different shooting/thinking style they necessitate. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
Bill, here in Israel the following is very common practice. You walk in a store and ask for something. They walk away and return with the box which they put on the counter. You ask to open it and actually try it before you commit your money. They respond that by doing so they risk so many shekels worth of goods. You parry by saying that you cannot buy something that may not work. They respond in turn that whatever is the problem you will have it resolved by the warranty and that they'd be happy to assist you should invocation of warranty become necessary. What hides behind all this exchange is the fact that proving that the lens such as DA* 16-50/2.8 malfunctions is going to be non-trivial process. What you will claim is soft they will claim is normal. Usually there is an indignant frown attached to it saying something like - this is professional gear, you just don't know how it works for 'us' professionals. My nephew is also Pentaxian and he has this lens and he loves it. I know personally a guy who bought one of the first Nikon D2Xs here (five digit sum in local currency, something like 3-4 times average monthly salary) and couldn't actually prove to local Nikon dealership that some of AF sensors of his camera malfed. He even wrote some letters to Nikon Japan or whatever high authority outside Israel there is. Ultimately, the firmware upgrade solved the problem, but I am sure poor fellow lost some hair on the way. Trust me, I've been through this story more than once. Unless I develop a deep friendly (as in drinking beer together) relationship with the dealer, the game is extremely risky. And unfortunately there are no enough reaons for me to start developing such a relationship (though I do like drinking beer, thanks to Thibouille ;-) ). Nor are there any considerably reliable and long-lasting photo gear dealers that also work with Pentax. *Deep sigh*. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:29 PM, William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Probably the 16-45 then. I've only used one once, and was impressed enough with it's optical quality. I wouldn't buy a 16-50 unless I could go to a store and try it first. They still haven't fixed the assembly problems, so the end user seems to be the first stage of quality control. William Robb -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: December PUG Theme?
On 11/16/08, Beaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Must have missed it. What is the December PUG theme? http://pdmlpug.org/?page_id=40 -- Scott Loveless New Cumberland, Pennsylvania, USA http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
- Original Message - From: Boris Liberman Subject: Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux Bill, here in Israel the following is very common practice. You walk in a store and ask for something. They walk away and return with the box which they put on the counter. You ask to open it and actually try it before you commit your money. They respond that by doing so they risk so many shekels worth of goods. You parry by saying that you cannot buy something that may not work. They respond in turn that whatever is the problem you will have it resolved by the warranty and that they'd be happy to assist you should invocation of warranty become necessary. What hides behind all this exchange is the fact that proving that the lens such as DA* 16-50/2.8 malfunctions is going to be non-trivial process. What you will claim is soft they will claim is normal. Usually there is an indignant frown attached to it saying something like - this is professional gear, you just don't know how it works for 'us' professionals. My nephew is also Pentaxian and he has this lens and he loves it. I know personally a guy who bought one of the first Nikon D2Xs here (five digit sum in local currency, something like 3-4 times average monthly salary) and couldn't actually prove to local Nikon dealership that some of AF sensors of his camera malfed. He even wrote some letters to Nikon Japan or whatever high authority outside Israel there is. Ultimately, the firmware upgrade solved the problem, but I am sure poor fellow lost some hair on the way. Trust me, I've been through this story more than once. Unless I develop a deep friendly (as in drinking beer together) relationship with the dealer, the game is extremely risky. And unfortunately there are no enough reaons for me to start developing such a relationship (though I do like drinking beer, thanks to Thibouille ;-) ). Nor are there any considerably reliable and long-lasting photo gear dealers that also work with Pentax. Doesn't Israel have any sort of consumer protection laws? Here's how it works in Canada: I go into a store and ask for a lens. They will probably have to order it in, unless it is consumer glass. When it arrives, I go to the store and mount it to my camera. I go out to the parking lot and take a few snapshots of the brick wall of the store across the lot. If it looks good on the review screen I buy the lens. Now this is where it gets nice for the buyer. We have a set of consumer laws that state that if the product isn't usable for the purpose for which it was sold, the seller must give a refund within a reasonable time frame (several days at least). So, if in the course of using my new lens, I notice a defect which compromises it's usability, it goes back to the store, I get a refund, and they order me a new lens, which then repeats the process. It sounds like Israeli consumer laws favour protecting the merchant over the buyer. There is probably a cliche or two in there someplace. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
On 16/11/08, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: Bill, here in Israel the following is very common practice. You walk in a store and ask for something. They walk away and return with the box which they put on the counter. You ask to open it and actually try it before you commit your money. They respond that by doing so they risk so many shekels worth of goods. You parry by saying that you cannot buy something that may not work. They respond in turn that whatever is the problem you will have it resolved by the warranty and that they'd be happy to assist you should invocation of warranty become necessary. I can see both sides. I once went into a well-known photographic shop in London with the intention of buying a lens (I think it was a Canon 24mm f 1.4 IIRC) and it was not cheap. I had made my decision and marched in. I asked if I could please see (said) lens as I would like to buy one (eg - I made my intention clear). I was stunned when the proprietor refused and said I would have to pay first before he would even open the box. I tried to make him understand that I was fully intending to purchase there and then. He explained that he could not take the chance that I would not buy the lens once opened - and he certainly would not mount it on a camera (I had my 1DmII with me). He said that 'people were ever so anal and wouldn't buy a lens if it had been handled or mounted already', and that 'people come in and try things out and then go buy them on the internet...' I explained that the idea of a camera shop was so that customers could indeed try before buying, rather than purchasing site unseen on the net. He still would not open the box! At this point I had decided on a matter of principle not to buy from him. I informed him that as he was indeed emulating an online web store by not letting me see my intended purchase first, that I would indeed wait and use an online store instead and save another 60 quid in the bargain (we're talking about 900 GBP here). He was unrepentant, and I left the shop. My only thoughts were that I would not enter a camera shop again. I would seek out a colleague or acquaintance in future to 'try out' a lens. I would buy from an online dealer in future. I have not changed my opinion. YMMV. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
- Original Message - From: Cotty Subject: Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux On 16/11/08, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: Bill, here in Israel the following is very common practice. You walk in a store and ask for something. They walk away and return with the box which they put on the counter. You ask to open it and actually try it before you commit your money. They respond that by doing so they risk so many shekels worth of goods. You parry by saying that you cannot buy something that may not work. They respond in turn that whatever is the problem you will have it resolved by the warranty and that they'd be happy to assist you should invocation of warranty become necessary. I can see both sides. I once went into a well-known photographic shop in London with the intention of buying a lens (I think it was a Canon 24mm f 1.4 IIRC) and it was not cheap. I had made my decision and marched in. I asked if I could please see (said) lens as I would like to buy one (eg - I made my intention clear). I was stunned when the proprietor refused and said I would have to pay first before he would even open the box. The question is, if the lens had turned out to be defective, would you have gotten an over the counter exchange from the vendor, presuming you discovered the defect fairly soon? One of the nice things about Canadian vendors is that (and I think this is because of consumer protection laws), if you discover a defect in a product within a few days to a few weeks of purchasing, the vendor will replace the product rather than making you deal with it as a warranty issue. The vendor replaces the product and sends it back to the distributor, and it gets dealt with in the supply chain rather than putting the customer out any more than is necessary. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: Dodge Challenger Race Package
Holy moly. That's fast. I worked for a time at a Dodge dealership in San Diego. Ralph Pearson, the old sand dragger, was a servicewriter there. His son, Ralph, Jr., had a 1967 Belvedere with an aluminum block 440, dual Holly 4-barrel double pumpers with nitrous. It was a door slammer but it was all decked out with wheel tubs, fuel cell and a parachute. He used to run the car at Carlsbad all the time. That car never ran a 10 flat. That's one fast Mopar. Nice shot, too ;-] -Brendan --- PN Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I shot this car for Dodge PR and Mopar Action magazine about a month ago. The embargo has been lifted now, so I can show a pic. Another frame from the shoot is going on the cover, so I'll hold off on showing that. The car itself is quite remarkable. It's a basically stock Dodge Challenger with a different third member and a slightly modified 6.1 liter version of their hemi engine. You can buy it from the factory on special order. It's engineered for drag racine. i photographed it during prototype testing, so I couldn't choose the time of day for best light. This shot was in early afternoon. Performance? The car ran 10.01 at 132 mph in a quarter mile. That's faster than any exotic you can buy today. Not bad for a basically off-the-shelf piece of Detroit iron. http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=8226674size=lg -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
The question is, if the lens had turned out to be defective, would you have gotten an over the counter exchange from the vendor, presuming you discovered the defect fairly soon? One of the nice things about Canadian vendors is that (and I think this is because of consumer protection laws), if you discover a defect in a product within a few days to a few weeks of purchasing, the vendor will replace the product rather than making you deal with it as a warranty issue. The vendor replaces the product and sends it back to the distributor, and it gets dealt with in the supply chain rather than putting the customer out any more than is necessary. it works the same way here. The contract that takes place at the point of sale is between the customer and the dealer, not between the customer and the dealer's supplier, so the dealer has to sort out any crap. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Dodge Challenger Race Package
HAR! :-) - Original Message - From: Joseph McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you do forget to turn the SR off, then don't forget to bump the tripod as you release the shutter. On Nov 15, 2008, at 18:38 , Christine Aguila wrote: And same here. Gosh. I didn't even know I should be turning if off for panning. I know about shutting it off when using a tripod, but I forget to do that too. Cheers, Christine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
I'm not sure if merchants in the US are legally bound to offer a replacement, but the better one's do. BH replaced my DA* 16-50 without question. Paul On Nov 16, 2008, at 11:28 AM, Bob W wrote: The question is, if the lens had turned out to be defective, would you have gotten an over the counter exchange from the vendor, presuming you discovered the defect fairly soon? One of the nice things about Canadian vendors is that (and I think this is because of consumer protection laws), if you discover a defect in a product within a few days to a few weeks of purchasing, the vendor will replace the product rather than making you deal with it as a warranty issue. The vendor replaces the product and sends it back to the distributor, and it gets dealt with in the supply chain rather than putting the customer out any more than is necessary. it works the same way here. The contract that takes place at the point of sale is between the customer and the dealer, not between the customer and the dealer's supplier, so the dealer has to sort out any crap. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
William Robb wrote: Doesn't Israel have any sort of consumer protection laws? Here's how it works in Canada: I go into a store and ask for a lens. They will probably have to order it in, unless it is consumer glass. When it arrives, I go to the store and mount it to my camera. I go out to the parking lot and take a few snapshots of the brick wall of the store across the lot. If it looks good on the review screen I buy the lens. Now this is where it gets nice for the buyer. We have a set of consumer laws that state that if the product isn't usable for the purpose for which it was sold, the seller must give a refund within a reasonable time frame (several days at least). So, if in the course of using my new lens, I notice a defect which compromises it's usability, it goes back to the store, I get a refund, and they order me a new lens, which then repeats the process. It sounds like Israeli consumer laws favour protecting the merchant over the buyer. There is probably a cliche or two in there someplace. William Robb Of course we have laws that are supposed to protect the consumer. However, like Cotty explained in his example, too many people have abused these laws and they have been 'changed' to 'protect' the seller from 'anal' buyers. You see, the same moment I walk out of the store and return, say on the next day, for whatever it is worth, I could've abused the lens all the way through, cleaned it up some and come to the seller saying that it is defective. There were cases when I would explicitly agree with the seller (of non-photographic items) that I shall be sure to thoroughly try the item during a day, at most two and then either I come and they replace it, or I accept that it is fully ok with all the consequences. Like I said, I placed an order for the Tamron 17-50/2.8 with one of the stores and I will see how it works out. I am going to have to discuss this issue with this shop anyway. If anything interesting turns out, I'd report it to the list just for sake of curiosity. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
- Original Message - From: Bob W Subject: RE: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux it works the same way here. The contract that takes place at the point of sale is between the customer and the dealer, not between the customer and the dealer's supplier, so the dealer has to sort out any crap. I suppose it is only logical, since so much of Canadian law is based on British Common Law. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
California fires
Some good photos of the fires in CA here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7731706.stm I particularly like #5, which confirms all our prejudices about Californians :o) Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT PESOs: Global Warming
Cotty wrote: On 15/11/08, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Women that hot are often cold as ice. Take my wife. Henny that you? -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: Tired Mailbox (color)
David J Brooks wrote: On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 1:54 PM, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David J Brooks wrote: On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:41 AM, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No problem, we shot similar things.:-) I mean shoot.:-( Funny some people use shoot instead of sh*t... I;m not some people. Dave True, Dave, we could never mistake you for some people ;-) Dave I'm always looking for mailboxes to shoot. Its a Fair catagory. Dave On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Appreciated, David. Jack --- On Sat, 11/15/08, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PESO: Tired Mailbox (color) To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 6:15 AM Very nice. Dave On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A more 'reserved' presentation: :( Jack http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=346 K20D, [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1/500, ISO 200 Comments welcome. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: Pennington Barn
Unfortunately it gives the impression of being not sharp even in the small image on my monitor. The composition is very nice. This is one of those times that a line down the exact middle of the image (at the water line), would have looked good. Though there's nothing wrong with with this. Jack Davis wrote: The Mrs and I took a fall drive around the area earlier today. We went by a barn I've been eying. The adjacent harvested rice field had been flooded in order to rot the rice stubble. Burning is now done on a very limited basis and will be completely discontinued in the near future. The reflection added just enough to make me pull over and do the standard drive by. Jack Comments welcome. http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=347 K20D, FA28~70 f/2.8, f/8, 1/750, ISO 100, hand held -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
PN Stenquist wrote: I'm not sure if merchants in the US are legally bound to offer a replacement, but the better one's do. BH replaced my DA* 16-50 without question. Paul That's the whole problem here. That guy I wrote about with D2X in another message in this thread - he dealt with the official, the biggest, allegedly the best dealer - still no cigar ;-). Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT PESOs: Global Warming
God is a joker; society is an ass. Men reach their sexual peak at 18, women at 30. Joseph McAllister wrote: On Nov 15, 2008, at 15:14 , John Francis wrote: (personally I think it's just fine to allow women to be that hot; I just don't think they should be allowed to be that young). Future. The Klingons have been been defeated. Science rules the universe. When you spy someone of the opposite sex whom you find attractive, you quickly morf into a body of approx. the same age. If the other body morfs as well, well, that's love!! Just something I forget I cannot do yet when I am behind an attractive well dressed 19 year old in the grocery line. Damn.. Fortune presents gifts not according to the book Fortune presents gifts not according to the book When you expect whistles it's flutes When you expect flutes it's whistles. words by Louis De Gongora (1581) On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:19:18PM -, Bob W wrote: You're a bitter man, Bill Robb! If they want to stop global warming they shouldn't allow women to be that hot. Women that hot are often cold as ice. It evens out. William Robb Joseph McAllister Pentaxian -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
PESO - Boris, weeks 42-45
Hi! http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/10/paw-2008-week-42.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-43.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-44.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-45.html Have your say! Thanks. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO - Boris, weeks 42-45
the flower pictures are very nicely done. That negative clarity trick is quite useful. Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman Sent: 16 November 2008 17:41 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List; PAW Project Discussions Subject: PESO - Boris, weeks 42-45 Hi! http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/10/paw-2008-week-42.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-43.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-44.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-45.html Have your say! Thanks. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO -- Asocial Climber.
Paul, I prefer the vertical one. Now, does it mean that I am more asocial than you or that on the contrary I am social? ;-) Boris PN Stenquist wrote: I've been told that I'm asocial. Anyway, I like the horizontal a lot. The light is great, and the composition is in some ways more interesting. Paul On Nov 11, 2008, at 1:35 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Opinion
You look somewhat preoccupied on that picture, Sir Frank ;-). Boris frank theriault wrote: A new genre: The candid self-portrait! ;-) Here I am on the weekend, looking at my partner (who's not in the pic, she's on the other side of the woman with the handbag) as she models a new sweater for me whilst shopping. Apparently my opinion matters... http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.com/2008/11/weekend-shopping.html cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO: Blueswoman Ana Popovic
Dario, here are my picks: #6 #7 #10 - probably the best of the whole bunch #16 Generally, Dario, I am left with the distinct impression that you framed (cropped???) your pictures too tight. Boris-who-also-likes-tight-crops. Dario Bonazza wrote: Hi folks, Here's a gallery of concert pictures of Ana Popovic band, shot by me a few months ago: http://www.dariobonazza.com/anae.htm Is there any picture you like? Which ones would you pick? Thanks. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Out of the Tunnel - Check Your i-Phone!
It works. Modern gadgets have too many GPSes in them, so that checking your location on your own GPS unit may become a habit of homo citydwellerus... Boris frank theriault wrote: This isn't my best subway shot ever, probably not even my best subway shot this week, but it's why I love shooting underground. There are a few places along our subway lines where the trains come out of tunnels and ride in the open for several minutes. It's funny nowadays: many people reach for their cellphones (and now i-Phones and Blackberries) for truncated conversations and surfing. One day I'll catch a bunch of people on camera doing just that, but last weekend it was just this fellow. What I really like about this sort of ultra-wide shot is taking a look at what everyone else is doing in the car. Some sleeping (or at least with their eyes shut). Some reading. Some in conversation. Some just staring blankly into space. It may not be great photography, but it says something about human nature, IMHO. Hope you enjoy: http://knarf-underground.blogspot.com/2008/11/out-of-tunnel-check-your-i-phone.html cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
Point taken! great, haunting shots. ann Bob W wrote: Some good photos of the fires in CA here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7731706.stm I particularly like #5, which confirms all our prejudices about Californians :o) Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: Last Night Shuttle Launch
Very memorable indeed. Though I wonder if there were any sound of any importance to be recorded along with the picture... Boris Walter Hamler wrote: Less than an hour ago Endeavor went up successfully. http://walthamler.smugmug.com/gallery/4592986_mrB5J#417112348_xNWeL-L-LB Walt -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: a PPG surprise...
Bong, I am thinking about Star Gate looking at this picture... Boris Bong Manayon wrote: Boredom pays off: a photo with no reason and it found itself in PPG... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/3030792833/ I was not thinking of Autumn, we don't have that season here in the Philippines. Bong -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO: San Francisco
We visited SF back in 2001. You easily managed to evoke some great memories of that time. Thanks! Boris Amita Guha wrote: Just put up the gallery from my San Francisco trip a month ago. Sorry, it's all Nikon gear except for the crappy waterproof Oly I use for kayaking. :) http://sunny16.zenfolio.com/p249448256/ I just got a new Wacom tablet and I used it and the trial version of Lightroom 2 (along with PS) to edit this batch. They both made processing a lot easier and more fun. I'd actually love to hear opinions on this photo: http://sunny16.zenfolio.com/p249448256/h2a323a66#h2a323a66 I like the composition but I can't decide if it's too backlit to be a successful shot. Thanks, Amita -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO: Red Bull Air Race - Perth 2008
Hmmm, do you live in Perth, David? Pretty impressive piloting, I must say. I recall when I was young, almost little, I had a chance to play Flight Simulator of that era. I recall that I chose some simple plane (not a jet) and tried to fly between the twins in New York. I got a building crash message which for some reason was very funny and I remembered it ever since. Clarification: The above is purely emotional and has nothing to do with the sad events of September 2001. Boris David Savage wrote: G'day All. Well the season is now over the winner has been crowned. I have no idea who the winner is, but I did have fun shooting the final race of the season :-) Here is a gallery of 16 of my better Pentax shots from the day: http://www.amnet.net.au/~savage/GESO/GESO_017/index.html For all but the first shot I was using the FA* 300mm f4.5 (with without the 1.7x AF adapter). The first shot was using the DA* 16-50mm f2.8. Any all comments welcome. Cheers, Dave PS, I'll put up a gallery of Nikon shots later in the week for those interested. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: GESO: 3200
Luka, I am absolutely certain that fellows from the local camera club would give you quite a few words of praise. These pictures look different and very very emotional! I had great pleasure looking at them. Boris Luka Knezevic-Strika wrote: It's been a while since I shot bw film, so I thought i'd share. It's a pan 400 ilford developed as 3200 in micorphen (it turned out well - at least i like it). anyway, here's the link to the gallery, since i think these are some of the nicer photos i've took lately http://www.flickr.com/photos/tamoneki/sets/72157608332450752/ btw. i also invented a new quasiscanning method: you use the enlarger and put the film in, then focus the image directly onto a dslr sensor (without any lense on) and capture (with my enlarger, i was able to capture half a frame with each shot) the entire film in about 100 shots. than, with some ps knowledge, it takes about two hours to get all the wanted images processed (this case, more than 20). and if you're into stiching, it's great - because you can get as much resolution as you want, since you can enlarge the negative to much more than the size of your sensor cheers, luka -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: Pennington Barn
Yes, I agree. The fine tree limbs and vertical roof corrugations are not sharp in the small jpeg file. It disappointed me when I put it up, but I left it so as not to impose on the download time of the list. Detail is definitely present in the 23+ RAW version. Thanks, Peter. Jack --- On Sun, 11/16/08, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PESO: Pennington Barn To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Sunday, November 16, 2008, 9:10 AM Unfortunately it gives the impression of being not sharp even in the small image on my monitor. The composition is very nice. This is one of those times that a line down the exact middle of the image (at the water line), would have looked good. Though there's nothing wrong with with this. Jack Davis wrote: The Mrs and I took a fall drive around the area earlier today. We went by a barn I've been eying. The adjacent harvested rice field had been flooded in order to rot the rice stubble. Burning is now done on a very limited basis and will be completely discontinued in the near future. The reflection added just enough to make me pull over and do the standard drive by. Jack Comments welcome. http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=347 K20D, FA28~70 f/2.8, f/8, 1/750, ISO 100, hand held -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PUG themes
Cool set of themes. I particularly like #11. Boris Scott Loveless wrote: Here's the list for 2009 unless a bunch of people really don't like something. 1. Posed 2. Monochrome 3. Abstract 4. Water 5. Roots 6. Travel 7. Aviation 8. Night and Astro-photography 9. Transportation 10. Vernacular or snapshot 11. Pentax Kids! (pictures your kids have taken) 12. Film Opinions most welcome. The November PUG will be up in a couple hours. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO 2008 - 167 - GDG (related pics from SF)
From the No On Proposition 8 rally today in San Jose ... http://homepage.mac.com/godders/167-rights.jpg Rights! - San Jose 2008 There were Gay Rights rallies all across the US and around the world today, and I went to the one in San Francisco. It was the biggest political event I've ever been to! Here are some of my snaps: http://www.neovenator.com/2008/11/went-to-big-san-francisco-gay-rights.html The one with the Lincoln statue strikes me, but I'm not sure in what context. Neither am I, which is partly why I posted it. I was hoping someone could find meaning in it. :) John -- http://www.neovenator.com http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
I have to agree with Dave, since the days of the MX and LX there hax been little reason to use Pentax bodies other than the glass, which has always been reason enough IMHO. There are a few classic lenses that I use such as the Vivitar 70-210 S1 (version 2 3), and a couple of others but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to buy modern 3rd party lenses. If I was going to be satisfied by them I'd switch to Nikon. David Savage wrote: I see no point in using Pentax bodies if you are just going to buy 3rd party lenses. I have both the DA 16-45mm the DA* 16-50mm. I was never a big fan of the 16-45 when the 16-50 became available I got one. I've never regretted the decision. My other advice is quit reading lens review sites. They fuck with your head find faults that 99% of the time you will never notice. Cheers, Dave 2008/11/16 Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi! So here is the list of some lenses that I thought about recently and the considerations that may prevent me from buying them. 1. SMCP DA* 16-50/2.8 - serious distortions at wide end, quality control issues still there 2. SMCP DA 17-70/4 SDM - some say it is a sibling of SMCP DA 10-17 fish eye wide end distortion-wise. Perfect otherwise. 3. SMCP DA 16-45/4 - slightly less distortions at wide end, basically ok, though the CAs could be a problem. 4. Tamron 17-50/2.8 - suffers from curvature of field, rather good otherwise 5. Sigma 18-50/2.8 - well, I just don't quite like Sigma, and certain people call Sigma really nasty names 6. SMCP DA 21/3.2 AL Limited - excellent lens, just not wide enough 7. Tamron 17-35/2.8-4 - covers full frame, but also suffers from curvature of field 8. Sigma 17-70/2.8-4.5 - well, another Sigma 9. SMCP FA 20-35/4 - said to be excellent, but expensive and starting to become quite rare these days. No matter how strange this sounds, but it seems that there is no decidedly good lens in 16(17,18)-45(50, 70) range for modern Pentax DSLR. Each lens has some serious drawbacks. So here you have it - a short summary. Please don't kill the scribe. Boris P.S. I already have 21 ltd, it is listed here just for sake of completeness. P.P.S. I should watch for reviews of DA 17-70/4 and some sample shots as well. P.P.P.S. The price on (even brand new) DA 16-45/4 has gone down considerably now... 4P.1S. I have placed an order for Tamron 17-50/2.8 and I may still buy one for lack of better alternative due to its speed and sharpness. Having excellent sample of Tamron 28-75/2.8 has its impact on my reasoning... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
In a zoom, f2.8 isn't moderately fast it's blazing. I don't know of any faster off hand. Boris Liberman wrote: Bill, I've DA 21/3.2 which is excellent as well. I am looking for a quality every-day most-situations-covered moderate wide to moderate tele reasonably fast zoom lens. Boris William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Boris Liberman Subject: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux I noticed the very excellent DA14/2.8 is not on your list. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO 2008 - 167 - GDG (related pics from SF)
On Nov 16, 2008, at 11:29 , John Celio wrote: From the No On Proposition 8 rally today in San Jose ... http://homepage.mac.com/godders/167-rights.jpg Rights! - San Jose 2008 There were Gay Rights rallies all across the US and around the world today, and I went to the one in San Francisco. It was the biggest political event I've ever been to! Here are some of my snaps: http://www.neovenator.com/2008/11/went-to-big-san-francisco-gay-rights.html The one with the Lincoln statue strikes me, but I'm not sure in what context. Neither am I, which is partly why I posted it. I was hoping someone could find meaning in it. :) John The best I can come up with is that Lincoln freed the slaves, and we can equate that to freeing the same sex community from the oppression of laws based loosely on religious concepts. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
Olympus Digital Zuiko 14-35 f2.0 and 35-100 f2.0, Angenieux/Tokina 28-70 f2.6-2.8 are pretty much the only zooms faster than f2.8 in 35mm SLR mounts. -Adam On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 3:00 PM, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a zoom, f2.8 isn't moderately fast it's blazing. I don't know of any faster off hand. Boris Liberman wrote: Bill, I've DA 21/3.2 which is excellent as well. I am looking for a quality every-day most-situations-covered moderate wide to moderate tele reasonably fast zoom lens. Boris William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Boris Liberman Subject: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux I noticed the very excellent DA14/2.8 is not on your list. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
Another option is the forthcoming DA 15 F4 Limited. Joe Nor is the very excellent DA 12-24/4 On Nov 15, 2008, at 1:59 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Boris Liberman Subject: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux I noticed the very excellent DA14/2.8 is not on your list. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
I'll be in a position to quite possibly give you a first hand account of the U.S. process when I receive my DA* 16-50 this next week or so from BH. I have to determine if it's acceptably sharp across the field of view. If not, then I return it to BH. Complicated by the fact that the lens was ordered and paid for by Liberty Mutual's Insurer's World division. I am getting unpriced BH receipts with me as the Ship to: entity, but Nicky Breitstein, Home Entertainment Distributor in Canton, Mass. as the Sold To. I'm concerned that the gap twixt BH and me might be a hurdle. We'll see! Joe On Nov 16, 2008, at 08:37 , PN Stenquist wrote: I'm not sure if merchants in the US are legally bound to offer a replacement, but the better one's do. BH replaced my DA* 16-50 without question. Paul On Nov 16, 2008, at 11:28 AM, Bob W wrote: The question is, if the lens had turned out to be defective, would you have gotten an over the counter exchange from the vendor, presuming you discovered the defect fairly soon? One of the nice things about Canadian vendors is that (and I think this is because of consumer protection laws), if you discover a defect in a product within a few days to a few weeks of purchasing, the vendor will replace the product rather than making you deal with it as a warranty issue. The vendor replaces the product and sends it back to the distributor, and it gets dealt with in the supply chain rather than putting the customer out any more than is necessary. it works the same way here. The contract that takes place at the point of sale is between the customer and the dealer, not between the customer and the dealer's supplier, so the dealer has to sort out any crap. Bob Joseph McAllister Pentaxian -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO 2008 - 167 - GDG (related pics from SF)
Joseph McAllister wrote: On Nov 16, 2008, at 11:29 , John Celio wrote: From the No On Proposition 8 rally today in San Jose ... http://homepage.mac.com/godders/167-rights.jpg Rights! - San Jose 2008 There were Gay Rights rallies all across the US and around the world today, and I went to the one in San Francisco. It was the biggest political event I've ever been to! Here are some of my snaps: http://www.neovenator.com/2008/11/went-to-big-san-francisco-gay-rights.html The one with the Lincoln statue strikes me, but I'm not sure in what context. Neither am I, which is partly why I posted it. I was hoping someone could find meaning in it. :) John The best I can come up with is that Lincoln freed the slaves, and we can equate that to freeing the same sex community from the oppression of laws based loosely on religious concepts. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian Sounds like that is jsut right to me ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
I cant comment on modern third party lenses, but back in the 80's-90's the Tamron SP and Tokina AT-X series made a few real doozies in lengths /ranges / speeds that Pentax didnt. I wouldnt dismiss third parties altogether JC O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of P. J. Alling Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 2:47 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux I have to agree with Dave, since the days of the MX and LX there hax been little reason to use Pentax bodies other than the glass, which has always been reason enough IMHO. There are a few classic lenses that I use such as the Vivitar 70-210 S1 (version 2 3), and a couple of others but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to buy modern 3rd party lenses. If I was going to be satisfied by them I'd switch to Nikon. David Savage wrote: I see no point in using Pentax bodies if you are just going to buy 3rd party lenses. I have both the DA 16-45mm the DA* 16-50mm. I was never a big fan of the 16-45 when the 16-50 became available I got one. I've never regretted the decision. My other advice is quit reading lens review sites. They fuck with your head find faults that 99% of the time you will never notice. Cheers, Dave 2008/11/16 Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi! So here is the list of some lenses that I thought about recently and the considerations that may prevent me from buying them. 1. SMCP DA* 16-50/2.8 - serious distortions at wide end, quality control issues still there 2. SMCP DA 17-70/4 SDM - some say it is a sibling of SMCP DA 10-17 fish eye wide end distortion-wise. Perfect otherwise. 3. SMCP DA 16-45/4 - slightly less distortions at wide end, basically ok, though the CAs could be a problem. 4. Tamron 17-50/2.8 - suffers from curvature of field, rather good otherwise 5. Sigma 18-50/2.8 - well, I just don't quite like Sigma, and certain people call Sigma really nasty names 6. SMCP DA 21/3.2 AL Limited - excellent lens, just not wide enough 7. Tamron 17-35/2.8-4 - covers full frame, but also suffers from curvature of field 8. Sigma 17-70/2.8-4.5 - well, another Sigma 9. SMCP FA 20-35/4 - said to be excellent, but expensive and starting to become quite rare these days. No matter how strange this sounds, but it seems that there is no decidedly good lens in 16(17,18)-45(50, 70) range for modern Pentax DSLR. Each lens has some serious drawbacks. So here you have it - a short summary. Please don't kill the scribe. Boris P.S. I already have 21 ltd, it is listed here just for sake of completeness. P.P.S. I should watch for reviews of DA 17-70/4 and some sample shots as well. P.P.P.S. The price on (even brand new) DA 16-45/4 has gone down considerably now... 4P.1S. I have placed an order for Tamron 17-50/2.8 and I may still buy one for lack of better alternative due to its speed and sharpness. Having excellent sample of Tamron 28-75/2.8 has its impact on my reasoning... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
I have the AT-X Pro series of Tokina ; 20-28, 28-70, and 80-200, all ƒ2.8 except the 20-28, of course, it being a ƒ2.6-2.8. I found all three to be great in 35mm film like the LX and PZ-1p. But their mass makes them pretty slow to auto-focus and tending towards out of focus on a digital body. In manual focus they are still great. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian On Nov 16, 2008, at 12:30 , JC OConnell wrote: I cant comment on modern third party lenses, but back in the 80's-90's the Tamron SP and Tokina AT-X series made a few real doozies in lengths /ranges / speeds that Pentax didnt. I wouldnt dismiss third parties altogether JC O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of P. J. Alling Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 2:47 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux I have to agree with Dave, since the days of the MX and LX there hax been little reason to use Pentax bodies other than the glass, which has always been reason enough IMHO. There are a few classic lenses that I use such as the Vivitar 70-210 S1 (version 2 3), and a couple of others but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to buy modern 3rd party lenses. If I was going to be satisfied by them I'd switch to Nikon. David Savage wrote: I see no point in using Pentax bodies if you are just going to buy 3rd party lenses. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
In Tokina AT-X, I still kept my 80-200/2.8, 100-300/4 and 60-120/2.8, all exceptional. Manual focus. The 60-120/2.8 is rare, its an incredible lens for portrait usage that nobody else ever made. In Tamron SP, I still have my 80-200/2.8 and 90mm/2.5 Macro, both exceptional. I also have the 17mm/3.5 which is really good, but I wouldnt call it exceptional. Manual focus, Adaptall mounts. There were others. JC O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph McAllister Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 3:51 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux I have the AT-X Pro series of Tokina ; 20-28, 28-70, and 80-200, all ƒ2.8 except the 20-28, of course, it being a ƒ2.6-2.8. I found all three to be great in 35mm film like the LX and PZ-1p. But their mass makes them pretty slow to auto-focus and tending towards out of focus on a digital body. In manual focus they are still great. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian On Nov 16, 2008, at 12:30 , JC OConnell wrote: I cant comment on modern third party lenses, but back in the 80's-90's the Tamron SP and Tokina AT-X series made a few real doozies in lengths /ranges / speeds that Pentax didnt. I wouldnt dismiss third parties altogether JC O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of P. J. Alling Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 2:47 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux I have to agree with Dave, since the days of the MX and LX there hax been little reason to use Pentax bodies other than the glass, which has always been reason enough IMHO. There are a few classic lenses that I use such as the Vivitar 70-210 S1 (version 2 3), and a couple of others but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to buy modern 3rd party lenses. If I was going to be satisfied by them I'd switch to Nikon. David Savage wrote: I see no point in using Pentax bodies if you are just going to buy 3rd party lenses. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO 2008 - 167 - GDG (related pics from SF)
Silliness. The law is based on a majority vote. That's how it works in a democracy. And it isn't about rights, it's about terminology. Marriage vs. Civil Union. Much ado about nothing. Paul On Nov 16, 2008, at 3:05 PM, Joseph McAllister wrote: On Nov 16, 2008, at 11:29 , John Celio wrote: From the No On Proposition 8 rally today in San Jose ... http://homepage.mac.com/godders/167-rights.jpg Rights! - San Jose 2008 There were Gay Rights rallies all across the US and around the world today, and I went to the one in San Francisco. It was the biggest political event I've ever been to! Here are some of my snaps: http://www.neovenator.com/2008/11/went-to-big-san-francisco-gay-rights.html The one with the Lincoln statue strikes me, but I'm not sure in what context. Neither am I, which is partly why I posted it. I was hoping someone could find meaning in it. :) John The best I can come up with is that Lincoln freed the slaves, and we can equate that to freeing the same sex community from the oppression of laws based loosely on religious concepts. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
Shouldn't be a problem BH deals honestly. Paul On Nov 16, 2008, at 3:24 PM, Joseph McAllister wrote: I'll be in a position to quite possibly give you a first hand account of the U.S. process when I receive my DA* 16-50 this next week or so from BH. I have to determine if it's acceptably sharp across the field of view. If not, then I return it to BH. Complicated by the fact that the lens was ordered and paid for by Liberty Mutual's Insurer's World division. I am getting unpriced BH receipts with me as the Ship to: entity, but Nicky Breitstein, Home Entertainment Distributor in Canton, Mass. as the Sold To. I'm concerned that the gap twixt BH and me might be a hurdle. We'll see! Joe On Nov 16, 2008, at 08:37 , PN Stenquist wrote: I'm not sure if merchants in the US are legally bound to offer a replacement, but the better one's do. BH replaced my DA* 16-50 without question. Paul On Nov 16, 2008, at 11:28 AM, Bob W wrote: The question is, if the lens had turned out to be defective, would you have gotten an over the counter exchange from the vendor, presuming you discovered the defect fairly soon? One of the nice things about Canadian vendors is that (and I think this is because of consumer protection laws), if you discover a defect in a product within a few days to a few weeks of purchasing, the vendor will replace the product rather than making you deal with it as a warranty issue. The vendor replaces the product and sends it back to the distributor, and it gets dealt with in the supply chain rather than putting the customer out any more than is necessary. it works the same way here. The contract that takes place at the point of sale is between the customer and the dealer, not between the customer and the dealer's supplier, so the dealer has to sort out any crap. Bob Joseph McAllister Pentaxian -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
Olympus do 2: ED 14-35mm 1:2.0 SWD ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 35-100mm 1:2.0 These have the same fov as 135 format 28-70 and 70-200mm respectively. Bob In a zoom, f2.8 isn't moderately fast it's blazing. I don't know of any faster off hand. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Boris, weeks 42-45
Boris, I like the beach shot as well. Regards, Bob S. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the flower pictures are very nicely done. That negative clarity trick is quite useful. Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman Sent: 16 November 2008 17:41 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List; PAW Project Discussions Subject: PESO - Boris, weeks 42-45 Hi! http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/10/paw-2008-week-42.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-43.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-44.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-45.html Have your say! Thanks. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO 2008 - 167 - GDG (related pics from SF)
Silliness. The law is based on a majority vote. That's how it works in a democracy. And it isn't about rights, it's about terminology. Marriage vs. Civil Union. Much ado about nothing. Separate but equal is never equal. John -- http://www.neovenator.com http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Old paper - to what use?
Lasse Karlsson wrote: Hi all, I have a number of boxes of various old paper (for photocopying). They are really old - some 15 years, but also very, very old, like 40-50 years old that I got after my amateur photographer uncle died. I guess they are useless for any photocopying. However I hestitate to throw them away, simply because they still kind of look good with a nice surface and some weight to them. Any suggestions on any particular use that you can make of them? (Except for using the boxes, which are nice.) Do you know if they can be used for printing by an inkjet printer? Thanks, Lasse Are you talking about photographic paper? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
On 16/11/08, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Some good photos of the fires in CA here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7731706.stm I particularly like #5, which confirms all our prejudices about Californians I would **love** a Segway. Sadly not legal to use on public highways or footpaths here, and as my estate only measures 60 feet by 20, probably not quite large enough to make use of its raison d'etre. Good fore pics - my heart goes out to those that have lost their homes. It must be terrifying. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: California fires
I would **love** a Segway. Why? It looks like just another way to get fat, and a ridiculous misapplication of technology. Walk or cycle. Bob Some good photos of the fires in CA here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7731706.stm I particularly like #5, which confirms all our prejudices about Californians I would **love** a Segway. Sadly not legal to use on public highways or footpaths here, and as my estate only measures 60 feet by 20, probably not quite large enough to make use of its raison d'etre. Good fore pics - my heart goes out to those that have lost their homes. It must be terrifying. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: Last Night Shuttle Launch
On 16/11/08, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: Very memorable indeed. Though I wonder if there were any sound of any importance to be recorded along with the picture... You can do the sound yourself. Turn on a fawcet (tap) and let the water fall from some height into a plastic bucket. Try it :-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Peso Erin at the Royal Winter Fair today
Hi all. Just getting back from the fair, and thought i would post this shot. The Royal is a big deal around here. Championships for the National riders. Erin qualified in a Sport Pony suitablity program, hunter/jumper and dressage on her students large pony. She won a 4th out of 12 entries in Hunter/Jumper and a 2nd in dressage. http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=8242569 Needless to say, rider and owners are thrilled. D200, 35-70F2.8 in Av mode, at F4. Light was from a skylight roof, but it was very cloudy and snowing today, so not much to work with. Everything panned at around 1/60 and iso at 1250. Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: Last Night Shuttle Launch
: On 16/11/08, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: Very memorable indeed. Though I wonder if there were any sound of any importance to be recorded along with the picture... You can do the sound yourself. Turn on a fawcet (tap) and let the water fall from some height into a plastic bucket. Try it :-) Oh yeah, forgot to say, you have to cut a hole in the bottom - it can't fill up!! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: Last Night Shuttle Launch
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very memorable indeed. Though I wonder if there were any sound of any importance to be recorded along with the picture... David Bowie, ground control to Major Tom.:-) Dave Boris Walter Hamler wrote: Less than an hour ago Endeavor went up successfully. http://walthamler.smugmug.com/gallery/4592986_mrB5J#417112348_xNWeL-L-LB Walt -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: Last Night Shuttle Launch
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : On 16/11/08, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: Very memorable indeed. Though I wonder if there were any sound of any importance to be recorded along with the picture... You can do the sound yourself. Turn on a fawcet (tap) and let the water fall from some height into a plastic bucket. Try it :-) Oh yeah, forgot to say, you have to cut a hole in the bottom - it can't fill up!! Your lucky to have a bucket, all we had was two used Dixie cups. Dave -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: November PUG is up
Jos from Holland wrote: Thanks Scott, for the work done! All are nice, but the four that work best for me are: [ ... ] -- Høst (= Autumn I guess?) by Toralf Thanks. Glad you like it. The title is slightly off on the web page, of course, most likely due to an encoding issue; it's supposed to be Høst (now, let's see if the list gets it right...) And yes, that just means autumn. - Toralf -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
On 16/11/08, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Why? It looks like just another way to get fat, and a ridiculous misapplication of technology. Walk or cycle. It's a transport mode. It looks fun. I've only ever applied those two criteria to every form of transport I've ever used in my life ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO 2008 - 167 - GDG (related pics from SF)
On Nov 16, 2008, at 1:07 PM, PN Stenquist wrote: Silliness. The law is based on a majority vote. That's how it works in a democracy. And it isn't about rights, it's about terminology. Marriage vs. Civil Union. Much ado about nothing. Without want to delve too deeply into the politics of the thing, Proposition 8 is posed as an amendment to the California State Constitution. It's passage by a (slim) simple majority contradicts the due process by which an amendment to the state constitution is permitted, and a well-founded legal action against it on that basis is now making its way through the California State courts. (The government of the United States and its member States is not a democracy either ... it's a representative republic ... but that's more technical political science than I feel like going to the books and studying up on at the moment. :-) Which is all beside the point anyway. Your notion of terminology citing that Marriage and Civil Union are synonymous is a simplistic and ill-founded judgement, not supported by the facts. A Civil Union does not carry the civil rights, provisos and protections of Marriage in the eye of the law ... that's why the LBGT community is so up in arms about this issue. Were I to be taken terminally ill, simple things like my partner's capability to assist me in the hospital in my dying days are not provided by a Civil Union because, under the law, he would not be granted the rights and capabilities as a member of my family. In some cases, he might not even be permitted to be at my bedside until a brother or other family member arrived and provided a legal release for his presence. Or even not at all. That is unconscionable discrimination in my view. So to characterize this issue as 'much ado about nothing', given the difference in status and rights conferred on supposedly equal citizens under the law by Civil Union and Marriage, is wholly incorrect. If you feel that these two instruments of the law are equal synonyms, put your money where your mouth is by obtaining a divorce and engaging your partner in a Civil Union instead. I'm sure you will be less than delighted with the difference in taxation, benefits and rights you receive from doing that. Proposition 8 was presented by its proponents in salacious fashion as an attack upon the holy sacrament of marriage, which has nothing to do with the LEGAL entity of Marriage under the civil law. Massive contributions to its promotion were funded by the Mormon Church and other fundamentalist radicals who felt it a *political* threat in the name of religious jurisprudence. It won its slim majority vote by a combination of subterfuge and scurrilous promotion practices ... like thousands of 'bot calls in the 24 hours of election day which presented misinformation and misdirection (I know this for a fact ... I received 13 of these 'bot calls myself on Election Day many of which used carefully edited clips from Barack Obama's campaign speeches spliced together to seem like he supported the passage of Prop 8, which he most certainly did not). It is discrimination by the politically fearful against a minority community. These facts and the fact that it is an attempt yet once again to overthrow the due process of constitutional governance by jimmying the rules of the game show just how afraid, desperate and hateful these so-called religious political institutions are... It will fail, they will fail. It may take more years of those affected by this discrimination suffering pain, greed, stupidity and hate, but it will fail. Getting back to photography, I think I need to do some adjustment to the rendering of my photo. Looked at 24 hours later, it seems a bit too harsh on the bright end of the spectrum. I'll be working on it a bit more... along with a few other snaps from the event. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Boris, weeks 42-45
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/10/paw-2008-week-42.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-43.html Like the flower shot and the fnece and twine shot Dave http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-44.html http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2008/11/paw-2008-week-45.html Have your say! Thanks. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: California fires
On 16/11/08, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Why? It looks like just another way to get fat, and a ridiculous misapplication of technology. Walk or cycle. It's a transport mode. It looks fun. I've only ever applied those two criteria to every form of transport I've ever used in my life ;-) Fair enough. You could try putting pram wheels and a 2-stroke engine on a Zimmer frame. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
On 16/11/08, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Fair enough. You could try putting pram wheels and a 2-stroke engine on a Zimmer frame. Chances are, I will. ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO 2008 - 167 - GDG (related pics from SF)
Hear hear, Godfrey. I wish I could be as eloquent as you. This issue only makes my temper flare hotter than the fires of a thousand suns. I look forward to your other related photos. John -- http://www.neovenator.com http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
Cotty wrote: On 16/11/08, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Some good photos of the fires in CA here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7731706.stm I particularly like #5, which confirms all our prejudices about Californians I would **love** a Segway. Sadly not legal to use on public highways or footpaths here, and as my estate only measures 60 feet by 20, probably not quite large enough to make use of its raison d'etre. Good fore pics - my heart goes out to those that have lost their homes. It must be terrifying. I had a go on one about two years ago. As a legally certified child, it took me about 30seconds to be able to use and held my attention for only slightly longer. Far, far too slow to be fun and, at the price they are, would not garner a second glance in a shop. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
Too old school, Bob. Pollutes. Noisy. Heavy. Think electric. Balance exercise for the elderly. Quiet. Does not pollute (depending on what the rider had for lunch). Why else would the government choose them for mail delivery and parking meter enforcement? Joseph McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Nov 16, 2008, at 13:56 , Bob W wrote: On 16/11/08, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Why? It looks like just another way to get fat, and a ridiculous misapplication of technology. Walk or cycle. It's a transport mode. It looks fun. I've only ever applied those two criteria to every form of transport I've ever used in my life ;-) Fair enough. You could try putting pram wheels and a 2-stroke engine on a Zimmer frame. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
I tend to agree with you Bob, but the other night we were in a parking structure moving vey slowly toward the exit. Made the mistake of returning to the car from dinner at the same time a local theater was letting out. A parking attendant came zipping up the ramp on a Segway, against the flow of traffic, checked on the length of the line or whatever, went zipping back down. Very shortly thereafter we started moving much more quickly; I believe he had confirmed that the backup was sufficient to call in a second or third or fourth attendant to take payments at the exit. Or maybe it was a coincidence. In any case, using a Segway to move quickly around a multistory structure like that, and presumably similar usage on the street-level, seems an efficient way to provide more service with fewer people. stan On Nov 16, 2008, at 3:31 PM, Bob W wrote: I would **love** a Segway. Why? It looks like just another way to get fat, and a ridiculous misapplication of technology. Walk or cycle. Bob Some good photos of the fires in CA here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7731706.stm I particularly like #5, which confirms all our prejudices about Californians I would **love** a Segway. Sadly not legal to use on public highways or footpaths here, and as my estate only measures 60 feet by 20, probably not quite large enough to make use of its raison d'etre. Good fore pics - my heart goes out to those that have lost their homes. It must be terrifying. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
On Nov 16, 2008, at 14:06 , mike wilson wrote: Cotty wrote: On 16/11/08, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Some good photos of the fires in CA here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7731706.stm I particularly like #5, which confirms all our prejudices about Californians I would **love** a Segway. Sadly not legal to use on public highways or footpaths here, and as my estate only measures 60 feet by 20, probably not quite large enough to make use of its raison d'etre. Good fore pics - my heart goes out to those that have lost their homes. It must be terrifying. I had a go on one about two years ago. As a legally certified child, it took me about 30seconds to be able to use and held my attention for only slightly longer. Far, far too slow to be fun and, at the price they are, would not garner a second glance in a shop. Mary-Louise Parker was able to make a getaway on one in last seasons Weeds finale! :-) Joseph McAllister Lots of gear, not much time -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
On 16/11/08, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed: I had a go on one about two years ago. As a legally certified child, it took me about 30seconds to be able to use and held my attention for only slightly longer. Far, far too slow to be fun and, at the price they are, would not garner a second glance in a shop. Yeah but Mike, you like motorbikes which certifies you as insane ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
Based on their newsprint results I hope they got a bad copy. For the premium you pay over the kit lens I'd expect sharper results at wider apertures. Carlos Royo wrote: Boris Liberman escribió: Brand new Tamron costs here order of $450, which considering that I already have it shipped, taxes paid and also covered with at least 1 year warranty, I reckon is a good price. Here it costs more or less the same, VAT included. If I remember well, you were interested in reading a review of the DA 17-70. I have found one: http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=3676review=pentax+17-70mm Carlos -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
On 16/11/08, Joseph McAllister, discombobulated, unleashed: Think electric. Balance exercise for the elderly. Quiet. Does not pollute (depending on what the rider had for lunch). Why else would the government choose them for mail delivery and parking meter enforcement? I saw one used by a security guard in a shopping mall in NJ last summer. I was mesmerised (I'll grant you it doesn't take much to impress me though!) and wanted one immediately! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: FA 1.4/50mm tested by DPReview
It's a tried true and solid design. It's thee least expensive option, and if you don't use it to it's limits you'll not be disappointed. Shooting absolutely wide open will not give optimum results, but then at least you'll get the shot. If you worry about the not particularly deeply recessed front lens element, get a lens hood. drew wrote: So, at the end of the day, after all the arguing over semantics is done ;-) Is the damn thing worth the £160 it sells for in the UK? I mean should I ask my wife to get me one for Christmas or look out an older manual focus version? Cheers, Drew. Jos from Holland wrote: What about depency of eyesight quality? People with reduced eyesight will always enjoy deeper depth of field? :-) Maybe we just have to accept that there is only one subject to lens distance sharp and we are lucky we can choose that point ourselfs (or leave it to the camera) Greetz, Jos Joseph McAllister wrote: Hey dudes, JC is correct on DoF. Chill. Mixing CoC and DoF is a no win argument unless a value of CoC is fixed before you start. You can achieve a deeper DoF from any projected image if you decide after the fact that a sloppier focus (larger CoC) is acceptable in your resultant print or negative, but that is not changing the DoF, only your eyesight. On Nov 14, 2008, at 05:32 , JC OConnell wrote: B.S. in capitols. DOF is format and print size independent. JC O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joseph McAllister Pentaxian -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] I choose bodies for the ergonomics and what's available in the mount, not what's available in 1st party form. Note that most of the currently available FF primes in K mount are not from Pentax, and most of the best of them aren't either (the Zeiss ZK and Voigtlander SLII lines are both at least as good as the equivalent pentax's). I've found that 3rd party lenses can offer superior performance to the 1st party options. And thus I use a mix of 1st and 3rd party lenses (Right now, Sigma, Voigtlander, Kiron and Nikon) Particularly when the 3rd party offers a lens that has no Pentax equivalent; e.g. FILM lenses. Some of us have not abandoned film to the extent Pentax has. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 16/11/08, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: Bill, here in Israel the following is very common practice. You walk in a store and ask for something. They walk away and return with the box which they put on the counter. You ask to open it and actually try it before you commit your money. They respond that by doing so they risk so many shekels worth of goods. You parry by saying that you cannot buy something that may not work. They respond in turn that whatever is the problem you will have it resolved by the warranty and that they'd be happy to assist you should invocation of warranty become necessary. I can see both sides. I once went into a well-known photographic shop in London with the intention of buying a lens (I think it was a Canon 24mm f 1.4 IIRC) and it was not cheap. I had made my decision and marched in. I asked if I could please see (said) lens as I would like to buy one (eg - I made my intention clear). I was stunned when the proprietor refused and said I would have to pay first before he would even open the box. I tried to make him understand that I was fully intending to purchase there and then. He explained that he could not take the chance that I would not buy the lens once opened - and he certainly would not mount it on a camera (I had my 1DmII with me). He said that 'people were ever so anal and wouldn't buy a lens if it had been handled or mounted already', and that 'people come in and try things out and then go buy them on the internet...' I explained that the idea of a camera shop was so that customers could indeed try before buying, rather than purchasing site unseen on the net. He still would not open the box! At this point I had decided on a matter of principle not to buy from him. I informed him that as he was indeed emulating an online web store by not letting me see my intended purchase first, that I would indeed wait and use an online store instead and save another 60 quid in the bargain (we're talking about 900 GBP here). He was unrepentant, and I left the shop. My only thoughts were that I would not enter a camera shop again. I would seek out a colleague or acquaintance in future to 'try out' a lens. I would buy from an online dealer in future. I have not changed my opinion. YMMV. So how long has it been since that well-known photographic shop in London went out of business? I'd have had to make a few pungent comments to him on my way out the door. There are two good independent dealers in town, and both seem more than willing to allow you to try a lens you're considering. One of them has rental equipment, so you can sometimes even give an intended purchase an extended workout ... at least a similar lens you can try before plopping down your credit card for the new-in-the-box lens. Both USED to be Pentax dealers. One still has a marginal relationship with Pentax, but has stopped stocking because they told me, they can't get the Pentax rep to come around and it takes forever to get orders fulfilled. They WILL order from Pentax for you, but have on more than one occasion advised me to order from BH because they have no idea if or when Pentax will fill their orders. But even the Wolf/Ritz Camera chain will allow you to get your hands on the camera/lens to test it in the store. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: California fires
He could have looked at the CCTV cameras. Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stan Halpin Sent: 16 November 2008 22:16 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: California fires I tend to agree with you Bob, but the other night we were in a parking structure moving vey slowly toward the exit. Made the mistake of returning to the car from dinner at the same time a local theater was letting out. A parking attendant came zipping up the ramp on a Segway, against the flow of traffic, checked on the length of the line or whatever, went zipping back down. Very shortly thereafter we started moving much more quickly; I believe he had confirmed that the backup was sufficient to call in a second or third or fourth attendant to take payments at the exit. Or maybe it was a coincidence. In any case, using a Segway to move quickly around a multistory structure like that, and presumably similar usage on the street-level, seems an efficient way to provide more service with fewer people. stan On Nov 16, 2008, at 3:31 PM, Bob W wrote: I would **love** a Segway. Why? It looks like just another way to get fat, and a ridiculous misapplication of technology. Walk or cycle. Bob Some good photos of the fires in CA here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7731706.stm I particularly like #5, which confirms all our prejudices about Californians I would **love** a Segway. Sadly not legal to use on public highways or footpaths here, and as my estate only measures 60 feet by 20, probably not quite large enough to make use of its raison d'etre. Good fore pics - my heart goes out to those that have lost their homes. It must be terrifying. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Wide zoom (and not zoom) lenses redux
From: PN Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm not sure if merchants in the US are legally bound to offer a replacement, but the better one's do. BH replaced my DA* 16-50 without question. Paul It's taking care of the customer that MAKES them the better ones. Some places see that as an incentive to get customers to shop there again. Other places see it as an additional COST to be avoided in any way possible. Guess which sort of place is likely to get my business. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
Cotty wrote: It's a transport mode. It looks fun. I've only ever applied those two criteria to every form of transport I've ever used in my life ;-) Come over at the right time and we'll put you behind the wheel of something spiffy on a race track. :-) The 'Busa Grande' ought to do well ... 1200 pound tube frame with 210 HP Hayabusa driveline. At Road Atlanta, ought to top out well north of 150 mph. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO: a PPG surprise...
You know... Worm Hole came into mind ... :-D On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bong, I am thinking about Star Gate looking at this picture... Boris Bong Manayon wrote: Boredom pays off: a photo with no reason and it found itself in PPG... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/3030792833/ I was not thinking of Autumn, we don't have that season here in the Philippines. Bong -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Bong Manayon http://www.bong.uni.cc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
Cotty wrote: On 16/11/08, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed: I had a go on one about two years ago. As a legally certified child, it took me about 30seconds to be able to use and held my attention for only slightly longer. Far, far too slow to be fun and, at the price they are, would not garner a second glance in a shop. Yeah but Mike, you like motorbikes which certifies you as insane ;-) Only in this country. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: California fires
Doug Franklin wrote: Cotty wrote: It's a transport mode. It looks fun. I've only ever applied those two criteria to every form of transport I've ever used in my life ;-) Come over at the right time and we'll put you behind the wheel of something spiffy on a race track. :-) The 'Busa Grande' ought to do well ... 1200 pound tube frame with 210 HP Hayabusa driveline. At Road Atlanta, ought to top out well north of 150 mph. IOW, slower than the over-the-counter motorcycle 8-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO 2008 - 167 - GDG (related pics from SF)
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 16, 2008, at 1:07 PM, PN Stenquist wrote: Silliness. The law is based on a majority vote. That's how it works in a democracy. And it isn't about rights, it's about terminology. Marriage vs. Civil Union. Much ado about nothing. Without want to delve too deeply into the politics of the thing, Proposition 8 is posed as an amendment to the California State Constitution. It's passage by a (slim) simple majority contradicts the due process by which an amendment to the state constitution is permitted, and a well-founded legal action against it on that basis is now making its way through the California State courts. (The government of the United States and its member States is not a democracy either ... it's a representative republic ... but that's more technical political science than I feel like going to the books and studying up on at the moment. :-) Which is all beside the point anyway. Your notion of terminology citing that Marriage and Civil Union are synonymous is a simplistic and ill-founded judgement, not supported by the facts. A Civil Union does not carry the civil rights, provisos and protections of Marriage in the eye of the law ... that's why the LBGT community is so up in arms about this issue. Were I to be taken terminally ill, simple things like my partner's capability to assist me in the hospital in my dying days are not provided by a Civil Union because, under the law, he would not be granted the rights and capabilities as a member of my family. In some cases, he might not even be permitted to be at my bedside until a brother or other family member arrived and provided a legal release for his presence. Or even not at all. That is unconscionable discrimination in my view. So to characterize this issue as 'much ado about nothing', given the difference in status and rights conferred on supposedly equal citizens under the law by Civil Union and Marriage, is wholly incorrect. If you feel that these two instruments of the law are equal synonyms, put your money where your mouth is by obtaining a divorce and engaging your partner in a Civil Union instead. I'm sure you will be less than delighted with the difference in taxation, benefits and rights you receive from doing that. Proposition 8 was presented by its proponents in salacious fashion as an attack upon the holy sacrament of marriage, which has nothing to do with the LEGAL entity of Marriage under the civil law. Massive contributions to its promotion were funded by the Mormon Church and other fundamentalist radicals who felt it a *political* threat in the name of religious jurisprudence. It won its slim majority vote by a combination of subterfuge and scurrilous promotion practices ... like thousands of 'bot calls in the 24 hours of election day which presented misinformation and misdirection (I know this for a fact ... I received 13 of these 'bot calls myself on Election Day many of which used carefully edited clips from Barack Obama's campaign speeches spliced together to seem like he supported the passage of Prop 8, which he most certainly did not). It is discrimination by the politically fearful against a minority community. These facts and the fact that it is an attempt yet once again to overthrow the due process of constitutional governance by jimmying the rules of the game show just how afraid, desperate and hateful these so-called religious political institutions are... It will fail, they will fail. It may take more years of those affected by this discrimination suffering pain, greed, stupidity and hate, but it will fail. Getting back to photography, I think I need to do some adjustment to the rendering of my photo. Looked at 24 hours later, it seems a bit too harsh on the bright end of the spectrum. I'll be working on it a bit more... along with a few other snaps from the event. Godfrey I'll note that the major reason the Church of Latter Day Saints backed the measure was the strong use of the singular in the wording of Proposition 8, not the fact that it outlawed Same-Sex marriages since it banned any form of polygamy at the constitutional level. The LDS is extremely wary of polygamy, for very good historical and recent reasons and Proposition 8's wording is a major win for them irrespective of the Same-Sex marriage issue. Note the LDS have not, as a rule, become heavily involved in the Same-Sex marriage debate anywhere else. It was the particular wording of Prop 8 and its applicability to one of the Churches major bugaboos that predicated the levl of support involved. Needless to say, the LDS are not proponents of Same-Sex marriage but that was not the reason they suddenly came out of the woodwork this time. As a personal take, I'm against the government being involved in marriage in the first place. but I'm a Libertarian sort (I know, odd for someone in Soviet Canuckistan) and think the
