[PHP-DEV] Re:[PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
About the Microsoft documentation of SOAP-RPC ... see SoapRpcMethodAttributeClass and the example, go to: HYPERLINK http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/cpref/ html/frlrfsystemwebservicesprotocolssoaprpcmethodattributeclasstopic.asp http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/cpref/ html/frlrfsystemwebservicesprotocolssoaprpcmethodattributeclasstopic.asp M.Adamov --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 19.9.2002
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
I think it's important to have a main stream soap implementation bundled with PHP and not a zillion different implementations floating around. If there is enough interest we could setup a Soap mailing list where interested people could cooperate possibly basing the official PHP Soap implementation on existing work, for example, Brad's work. As I personally don't have the knowledge nor the time I'm just making the suggestion :) It's up to people who are interested in this topic to move it forward. I think it would be extremely beneficial to PHP. Andi At 17:52 23/05/2002 +0200, phpsurf wrote: hi brad lafountain is working on a Soap extension which is not far from being stable. he made a good use of WSDL ... you should have look to http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/phpsoap/ -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: jeudi 23 mai 2002 15:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 14:57:45 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is the current status in terms of SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL in php? How mature are the solutions? When will they be ready for primetime? Does anyone already use them in production (that can be used to show off how great the support is) or are there any other prominent examples? (I know the pear installer uses XMLRPC and Sebastian did something with Googles Webservices) We´ve been trying to make a PEAR::SOAP webservice talk to a VB.NET SOAP client. It does work very well when you stick to passing most primitive datatypes around: Strings, Integers, Floats, Booleans ... It stops being fun when you´re trying more complex structures like resultsets from SQL-Queries. Those could be represented and passed via SOAP as two-dimensional arrays, and in theory you could either use a loosely typed two-dimensional array or an array of struct to represent that data in the VB.NET client - but we did not yet manage to make the client recognize and deserialize the SOAP data from the PHP script. I have not the slightest idea where to start looking. I´ve read tons of articles on SOAP and WSDL, but all in all, the quality of documentation on this topic sucks. PEAR::SOAP itself is as good as undocumented (at least the server part) and the documentation for .NET webservices mostly talks about connecting an ASP.NET webservice to a C# or VB.NET client. When it comes to making SOAP calls to a client/server on another software platform, or even if you just want to use SOAP-RPC encoding instead of the default Document/Literal encoding that .NET does, the documentation is very uncomplete. Thing is, you _have_ to use SOAP-RPC encoding because PEAR::SOAP does not yet support Document/Literal (in fact, Microsoft seem to be the only ones who use this encoding method by default or even fully support it). I guess when it comes to maturity, all available implementations in any language still have a long way to go. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php __ ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet ! vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP... http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DybNet Internet Solutions GbR Reuchlinstr. 10-11 Gebäude 4 1.OG Raum 6 (4.1.6) 10553 Berlin Germany Tel. : +49 30 83 22 50 00 Fax : +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andi Gutmans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 5:53 PM To: phpsurf; Markus Wolff; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL I think it's important to have a main stream soap implementation bundled with PHP and not a zillion different implementations floating around. If there is enough interest we could setup a Soap mailing list where interested people could cooperate possibly basing the official PHP Soap implementation on existing work, for example, Brad's work. As I personally don't have the knowledge nor the time I'm just making the suggestion :) It's up to people who are interested in this topic to move it forward. I think it would be extremely beneficial to PHP. Andi At 17:52 23/05/2002 +0200, phpsurf wrote: hi brad lafountain is working on a Soap extension which is not far from being stable. he made a good use of WSDL ... you should have look to http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/phpsoap/ -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: jeudi 23 mai 2002 15:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 14:57:45 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is the current status in terms of SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL in php? How mature are the solutions? When will they be ready for primetime? Does anyone already use them in production (that can be used to show off how great the support is) or are there any other prominent examples? (I know the pear installer uses XMLRPC and Sebastian did something with Googles Webservices) We´ve been trying to make a PEAR::SOAP webservice talk to a VB.NET SOAP client. It does work very well when you stick to passing most primitive datatypes around: Strings, Integers, Floats, Booleans ... It stops being fun when you´re trying more complex structures like resultsets from SQL-Queries. Those could be represented and passed via SOAP as two-dimensional arrays, and in theory you could either use a loosely typed two-dimensional array or an array of struct to represent that data in the VB.NET client - but we did not yet manage to make the client recognize and deserialize the SOAP data from the PHP script. I have not the slightest idea where to start looking. I´ve read tons of articles on SOAP and WSDL, but all in all, the quality of documentation on this topic sucks. PEAR::SOAP itself is as good as undocumented (at least the server part) and the documentation for .NET webservices mostly talks about connecting an ASP.NET webservice to a C# or VB.NET client. When it comes to making SOAP calls to a client/server on another software platform, or even if you just want to use SOAP-RPC encoding instead of the default Document/Literal encoding that .NET does, the documentation is very uncomplete. Thing is, you _have_ to use SOAP-RPC encoding because PEAR::SOAP does not yet support Document/Literal (in fact, Microsoft seem to be the only ones who use this encoding method by default or even fully support it). I guess when it comes to maturity, all available implementations in any language still have a long way to go. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php ___ __ _ ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet ! vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP... http://www.ifrance.com
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Am Thu, 23 May 2002 18:03:43 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Great, let´s build the ultimate guide to SOAP using PHP - I can contribute a collection of links to articles on the topic and also some code snippets of PEAR::SOAP server-scripts, WSDL files and VB.NET clients that do work together (with simple datatypes). If wanted, I can also set up a mailinglist - although I guess it would be best to host such a list on php.net to make it look more official. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DybNet Internet Solutions GbR Reuchlinstr. 10-11 Gebäude 4 1.OG Raum 6 (4.1.6) 10553 Berlin Germany Tel. : +49 30 83 22 50 00 Fax : +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andi Gutmans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 5:53 PM To: phpsurf; Markus Wolff; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL I think it's important to have a main stream soap implementation bundled with PHP and not a zillion different implementations floating around. If there is enough interest we could setup a Soap mailing list where interested people could cooperate possibly basing the official PHP Soap implementation on existing work, for example, Brad's work. As I personally don't have the knowledge nor the time I'm just making the suggestion :) It's up to people who are interested in this topic to move it forward. I think it would be extremely beneficial to PHP. Andi At 17:52 23/05/2002 +0200, phpsurf wrote: hi brad lafountain is working on a Soap extension which is not far from being stable. he made a good use of WSDL ... you should have look to http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/phpsoap/ -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: jeudi 23 mai 2002 15:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 14:57:45 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is the current status in terms of SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL in php? How mature are the solutions? When will they be ready for primetime? Does anyone already use them in production (that can be used to show off how great the support is) or are there any other prominent examples? (I know the pear installer uses XMLRPC and Sebastian did something with Googles Webservices) We´ve been trying to make a PEAR::SOAP webservice talk to a VB.NET SOAP client. It does work very well when you stick to passing most primitive datatypes around: Strings, Integers, Floats, Booleans ... It stops being fun when you´re trying more complex structures like resultsets from SQL-Queries. Those could be represented and passed via SOAP as two-dimensional arrays, and in theory you could either use a loosely typed two-dimensional array or an array of struct to represent that data in the VB.NET client - but we did not yet manage to make the client recognize and deserialize the SOAP data from the PHP script. I have not the slightest idea where to start looking. I´ve read tons of articles on SOAP and WSDL, but all in all, the quality of documentation on this topic sucks. PEAR::SOAP itself is as good as undocumented (at least the server part) and the documentation for .NET webservices mostly talks about connecting an ASP.NET webservice to a C# or VB.NET client. When it comes to making SOAP calls to a client/server on another software platform, or even if you just want to use SOAP-RPC encoding instead of the default Document/Literal encoding that .NET does, the documentation is very uncomplete. Thing is, you _have_ to use SOAP-RPC encoding because PEAR::SOAP does not yet support Document/Literal (in fact, Microsoft seem to be the only ones who use this encoding method by default or even fully support it). I guess when it comes to maturity, all available implementations in any language still have a long way to go. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Markus Wolff wrote: Am Thu, 23 May 2002 17:12:34 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So feature-wise is PHP on par with SOAP::Lite? From what I have heard people seemed to have talked quite favourably about SOAP::Lite. I assume documentation-wise PHP lags behind. I have no knowledge of Perl which is why I have no clue what features are/aren´t included in SOAP::Lite. Maybe Shane knows more about it? Regards, Markus SOAP::Lite has the same problem, in fact with simple stuff we've done at work it's proven to be less interoperable that PEAR::SOAP when it comes to dealing with .Net. Python is also very lacking in the SOAP arena. None of the scripting languages do realy well with WSDL, esp. when it comes to XML Schema. Deitrich's NuSOAP probably does better with WSDL/Schema than PEAR::SOAP, but I haven't tried to stress it to find out. Shane -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Am Thu, 23 May 2002 10:44:36 -0700 schrieb Shane Caraveo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: SOAP::Lite has the same problem, in fact with simple stuff we've done at work it's proven to be less interoperable that PEAR::SOAP when it comes to dealing with .Net. Python is also very lacking in the SOAP arena. None of the scripting languages do realy well with WSDL, esp. when it comes to XML Schema. Deitrich's NuSOAP probably does better with WSDL/Schema than PEAR::SOAP, but I haven't tried to stress it to find out. Briefly browsing the mailing list archives for PHP SOAP (which has some great information in it, I´d really like to see an official SOAP list on php.net!) I have discovered quite a neat feature: In PEAR::SOAP you need to specifically create SOAP_Value objects for all return values. In PHP SOAP it´s possible to bind a WSDL file to the service which then analyses the file and takes care of proper encoding for return values. This is extremely helpful ´cause you don´t have to scratch your head anymore on how to create the SOAP_Value objects so that they match your WSDL definition (something that still causes headaches for me). Here´s the message that I found: http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/SourceForge/21431/0/8578899/ I´ll probably try it out this weekend. If it works well, this would make a great addition to PEAR::SOAP. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;). There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap stuff as well. Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
So do we want a [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list? I can set it up if you say the word. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Shane Caraveo wrote: I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;). There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap stuff as well. Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
It sounds to me like something like webservices.php.net would be in order. I don't have a huge deal of time to really push this forward. I will provide a simple list to start and that will just be a static page for now and that people can expand as things go on (dunno how permissions for php.net subdomains is handled). It would however be great if someone steps up and dedicates some long term time to this and makes this THE resource for webservices for php. This would be a great opportunity for a php novice to gain some fame because a large chunk would be just compiling links and comments. But in the long run it will obviously be a great opportunity to become really knowledgeable in webservices in php. But I dont know how the process of setting up something like webservices.php.net would go. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DybNet Internet Solutions GbR Reuchlinstr. 10-11 Gebäude 4 1.OG Raum 6 (4.1.6) 10553 Berlin Germany Tel. : +49 30 83 22 50 00 Fax : +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 7:58 PM To: Shane Caraveo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 10:44:36 -0700 schrieb Shane Caraveo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: SOAP::Lite has the same problem, in fact with simple stuff we've done at work it's proven to be less interoperable that PEAR::SOAP when it comes to dealing with .Net. Python is also very lacking in the SOAP arena. None of the scripting languages do realy well with WSDL, esp. when it comes to XML Schema. Deitrich's NuSOAP probably does better with WSDL/Schema than PEAR::SOAP, but I haven't tried to stress it to find out. Briefly browsing the mailing list archives for PHP SOAP (which has some great information in it, I´d really like to see an official SOAP list on php.net!) I have discovered quite a neat feature: In PEAR::SOAP you need to specifically create SOAP_Value objects for all return values. In PHP SOAP it´s possible to bind a WSDL file to the service which then analyses the file and takes care of proper encoding for return values. This is extremely helpful ´cause you don´t have to scratch your head anymore on how to create the SOAP_Value objects so that they match your WSDL definition (something that still causes headaches for me). Here´s the message that I found: http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/SourceForge/21431/0/8578899/ I´ll probably try it out this weekend. If it works well, this would make a great addition to PEAR::SOAP. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
I want one (but should this not be a bit more generic as in [EMAIL PROTECTED]) .. plus webservices.php.net Or webservicetools ... dunno Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DybNet Internet Solutions GbR Reuchlinstr. 10-11 Gebäude 4 1.OG Raum 6 (4.1.6) 10553 Berlin Germany Tel. : +49 30 83 22 50 00 Fax : +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 8:05 PM To: Shane Caraveo Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL So do we want a [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list? I can set it up if you say the word. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Shane Caraveo wrote: I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;). There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap stuff as well. Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
I would say go for it, but I want to hear from some others first to know that I wont be talking to myself on an email list ;) Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: So do we want a [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list? I can set it up if you say the word. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Shane Caraveo wrote: I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;). There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap stuff as well. Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Ugh, can't stand 'web services'. But anyway, I think this information needs to go into regular documentation on php.net and pear.php.net first, then if there is realy a need for it expand into an additional site. Shane Lukas Smith wrote: It sounds to me like something like webservices.php.net would be in order. I don't have a huge deal of time to really push this forward. I will provide a simple list to start and that will just be a static page for now and that people can expand as things go on (dunno how permissions for php.net subdomains is handled). It would however be great if someone steps up and dedicates some long term time to this and makes this THE resource for webservices for php. This would be a great opportunity for a php novice to gain some fame because a large chunk would be just compiling links and comments. But in the long run it will obviously be a great opportunity to become really knowledgeable in webservices in php. But I don't know how the process of setting up something like webservices.php.net would go. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Ugh, can't stand 'web services' I know what you mean. I just think that soap would sort of imply it's not xml-rpc etc ... which would not make sense ... On the other hand since there is no php-xmlrpc@ people will probably try php-soap@ anyways But anyway, I think this information needs to go into regular documentation on php.net and pear.php.net first, then if there is realy a need for it expand into an additional site. Ok, I will just compile my little thingi and then we will see where it finds a home. Shane Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DybNet Internet Solutions GbR Reuchlinstr. 10-11 Gebäude 4 1.OG Raum 6 (4.1.6) 10553 Berlin Germany Tel. : +49 30 83 22 50 00 Fax : +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Shane Caraveo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 8:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Ugh, can't stand 'web services'. But anyway, I think this information needs to go into regular documentation on php.net and pear.php.net first, then if there is realy a need for it expand into an additional site. Shane Lukas Smith wrote: It sounds to me like something like webservices.php.net would be in order. I don't have a huge deal of time to really push this forward. I will provide a simple list to start and that will just be a static page for now and that people can expand as things go on (dunno how permissions for php.net subdomains is handled). It would however be great if someone steps up and dedicates some long term time to this and makes this THE resource for webservices for php. This would be a great opportunity for a php novice to gain some fame because a large chunk would be just compiling links and comments. But in the long run it will obviously be a great opportunity to become really knowledgeable in webservices in php. But I don't know how the process of setting up something like webservices.php.net would go. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
+1 :-) On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 11:21:39AM -0700, Shane Caraveo wrote : I would say go for it, but I want to hear from some others first to know that I wont be talking to myself on an email list ;) Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: So do we want a [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list? I can set it up if you say the word. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Shane Caraveo wrote: I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;). There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap stuff as well. Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. GnuPG Key: http://guru.josefine.at/~mfischer/C2272BD0.asc - I mean When in doubt, blame mcrypt is more often right than wrong :) Always right, never wrong :) - Two PHP developers who want to remain unnamed -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
i'm under contract. i'd definitely contribute as much as possible on the list though :) i think these are excellent steps for PHP in this area. i get an amazing amount of NuSOAP-related email every day from developers who (for whatever reason) think that SOAP is the shiznit, and are creating all kinds of crazy web services. Most are trying to talk to other SOAP toolkits (mostly .NET Apache). suggestions: 1. interop is key. get an endpoint up for brad's extension, and register it w/ soapbuilders list. 2. implement solid document-oriented messaging support (doc/lit) into brad's extension. dietrich -Original Message- From: Shane Caraveo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;). There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap stuff as well. Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Ok here I am
I do already have some email lists up for my extension.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I've been doing ALOT of work with my extension. And i currently do use it live
at work. We have a java interface talking to SoapObjects on the server. This
is extremly powerfull cause it take advantage of php seralization and php
sessions to persist php-soap objects. So basicall you have a php-soap
application server that can commiuncate with any client. Run a php object in
any language that supports soap.
here are some snipplits that explain what im doing
?
$client = new SoapObject(http://serverendpoint.com/somescript.php;,
urn:Test);
$client-setData(someData);
echo $client-getData();
$client-destroy();
?
?
$server = new SoapServer(urn:Test);
$server-setClass(myClass);
$server-setPersistence(SOAP_PERSISTENCE_SESSION);
$server-handle();
class myClass
{
var $data;
function setData($data)
{
$this-data = $data;
}
function getData()
{
return $this-data;
}
function destroy()
{
session_destroy();
}
}
?
now with the above example you can see how you can have persitiant php
objects running on a remote server. I use this type of functionality in my
java gui. All of my database objects are writtin in php they do the data
extract. Then the java gui can fetch the data. Now if i don't like java i can
create php-gtk appliation use php-soap and i don't need to re-write my database
objects or MFC or VB etc etc. And now you can give this gui application to
customers and have them run it... and if you ever want to change your
underlaying db structure or any business logic you don't need to release a new
application you can control it thru your phpsoapobjects.
Since the perstited object is using php-session handling you can control
where the objects go. So i take it a step further i use msession to handle my
objects. Now i can have a cluster of php-soap application servers each soap
call method call can run on a different server or if you want pure speed you
can set up your session handling to use mod_mm but you don't have the whole
clustering part.
My extension is very young. it still needs alot of work but it also includes
alot of functionality.
the website is
http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/
- Brad
--- Dietrich Ayala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i'm under contract. i'd definitely contribute as much as possible on the list
though :)
i think these are excellent steps for PHP in this area. i get an amazing
amount of NuSOAP-related email every day from developers
who (for whatever reason) think that SOAP is the shiznit, and are creating
all kinds of crazy web services. Most are trying to talk
to other SOAP toolkits (mostly .NET Apache).
suggestions:
1. interop is key. get an endpoint up for brad's extension, and register it
w/ soapbuilders list.
2. implement solid document-oriented messaging support (doc/lit) into brad's
extension.
dietrich
-Original Message-
From: Shane Caraveo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a
bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the
last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure
whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we
could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;).
There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap
stuff as well.
Shane
Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that
know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him
spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if
enough people are interested.
-Rasmus
On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote:
Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages
everywhere.
But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are
simply redundant.
I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist.
As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR
DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would
wish on this topic.
For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little
static page with the content.
Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any
comments people send regarding that package underneath.
Best regards,
Lukas Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/
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--
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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
__
Do You Yahoo
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
As I mentioned earlier I am a big +1 for it. Probably php-webservices@ is even better as it covers more and sounds good :) Andi At 11:05 23/05/2002 -0700, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: So do we want a [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list? I can set it up if you say the word. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Shane Caraveo wrote: I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;). There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap stuff as well. Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Then go for soap, that's fine too. The most important thing is that we manage to get good SOAP support into PHP which will work out of the box and can be documented officially in the manual. Andi At 14:08 23/05/2002 -0700, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: I really don't like the term Web Services. SOAP is an RPC mechanism and has nothing to do with the web despite what M$ would like to have you think. -Rasmus On Fri, 24 May 2002, Andi Gutmans wrote: As I mentioned earlier I am a big +1 for it. Probably php-webservices@ is even better as it covers more and sounds good :) Andi At 11:05 23/05/2002 -0700, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: So do we want a [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list? I can set it up if you say the word. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Shane Caraveo wrote: I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;). There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap stuff as well. Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
PHP already has SOAP support bundled in the xmlrpc extension, which is built upon the xmlrpc-epi library that we bundle. Why can't people improve that instead of re-inventing more wheels in all shapes and sizes? When we bundle a library, we should use it. - Stig On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 17:52, Andi Gutmans wrote: I think it's important to have a main stream soap implementation bundled with PHP and not a zillion different implementations floating around. If there is enough interest we could setup a Soap mailing list where interested people could cooperate possibly basing the official PHP Soap implementation on existing work, for example, Brad's work. As I personally don't have the knowledge nor the time I'm just making the suggestion :) It's up to people who are interested in this topic to move it forward. I think it would be extremely beneficial to PHP. Andi At 17:52 23/05/2002 +0200, phpsurf wrote: hi brad lafountain is working on a Soap extension which is not far from being stable. he made a good use of WSDL ... you should have look to http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/phpsoap/ -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: jeudi 23 mai 2002 15:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 14:57:45 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is the current status in terms of SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL in php? How mature are the solutions? When will they be ready for primetime? Does anyone already use them in production (that can be used to show off how great the support is) or are there any other prominent examples? (I know the pear installer uses XMLRPC and Sebastian did something with Googles Webservices) We´ve been trying to make a PEAR::SOAP webservice talk to a VB.NET SOAP client. It does work very well when you stick to passing most primitive datatypes around: Strings, Integers, Floats, Booleans ... It stops being fun when you´re trying more complex structures like resultsets from SQL-Queries. Those could be represented and passed via SOAP as two-dimensional arrays, and in theory you could either use a loosely typed two-dimensional array or an array of struct to represent that data in the VB.NET client - but we did not yet manage to make the client recognize and deserialize the SOAP data from the PHP script. I have not the slightest idea where to start looking. I´ve read tons of articles on SOAP and WSDL, but all in all, the quality of documentation on this topic sucks. PEAR::SOAP itself is as good as undocumented (at least the server part) and the documentation for .NET webservices mostly talks about connecting an ASP.NET webservice to a C# or VB.NET client. When it comes to making SOAP calls to a client/server on another software platform, or even if you just want to use SOAP-RPC encoding instead of the default Document/Literal encoding that .NET does, the documentation is very uncomplete. Thing is, you _have_ to use SOAP-RPC encoding because PEAR::SOAP does not yet support Document/Literal (in fact, Microsoft seem to be the only ones who use this encoding method by default or even fully support it). I guess when it comes to maturity, all available implementations in any language still have a long way to go. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php __ ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet ! vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP... http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Stig, I am not keeping up with which PHP SOAP implementations are complete and which are not. I guess I am confused like many of our users. I didn't say we should reinvent the wheel. All I said is that everyone should get together and standardize PHP's SOAP support and get it documented and advertised. If the best base will be xmlrpc-epi (time for a name change? :) then that's fine. Andi At 23:15 23/05/2002 +0200, Stig S. Bakken wrote: PHP already has SOAP support bundled in the xmlrpc extension, which is built upon the xmlrpc-epi library that we bundle. Why can't people improve that instead of re-inventing more wheels in all shapes and sizes? When we bundle a library, we should use it. - Stig On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 17:52, Andi Gutmans wrote: I think it's important to have a main stream soap implementation bundled with PHP and not a zillion different implementations floating around. If there is enough interest we could setup a Soap mailing list where interested people could cooperate possibly basing the official PHP Soap implementation on existing work, for example, Brad's work. As I personally don't have the knowledge nor the time I'm just making the suggestion :) It's up to people who are interested in this topic to move it forward. I think it would be extremely beneficial to PHP. Andi At 17:52 23/05/2002 +0200, phpsurf wrote: hi brad lafountain is working on a Soap extension which is not far from being stable. he made a good use of WSDL ... you should have look to http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/phpsoap/ -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: jeudi 23 mai 2002 15:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 14:57:45 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is the current status in terms of SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL in php? How mature are the solutions? When will they be ready for primetime? Does anyone already use them in production (that can be used to show off how great the support is) or are there any other prominent examples? (I know the pear installer uses XMLRPC and Sebastian did something with Googles Webservices) We´ve been trying to make a PEAR::SOAP webservice talk to a VB.NET SOAP client. It does work very well when you stick to passing most primitive datatypes around: Strings, Integers, Floats, Booleans ... It stops being fun when you´re trying more complex structures like resultsets from SQL-Queries. Those could be represented and passed via SOAP as two-dimensional arrays, and in theory you could either use a loosely typed two-dimensional array or an array of struct to represent that data in the VB.NET client - but we did not yet manage to make the client recognize and deserialize the SOAP data from the PHP script. I have not the slightest idea where to start looking. I´ve read tons of articles on SOAP and WSDL, but all in all, the quality of documentation on this topic sucks. PEAR::SOAP itself is as good as undocumented (at least the server part) and the documentation for .NET webservices mostly talks about connecting an ASP.NET webservice to a C# or VB.NET client. When it comes to making SOAP calls to a client/server on another software platform, or even if you just want to use SOAP-RPC encoding instead of the default Document/Literal encoding that .NET does, the documentation is very uncomplete. Thing is, you _have_ to use SOAP-RPC encoding because PEAR::SOAP does not yet support Document/Literal (in fact, Microsoft seem to be the only ones who use this encoding method by default or even fully support it). I guess when it comes to maturity, all available implementations in any language still have a long way to go. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php ___ ___ ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet ! vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP... http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Shane also did not like the term and I can see where you all are coming from. But I think the mailinglist should cover a broader scope than just soap and this is usually done under the name web services php-xml-based-rpc@ this could mislead to making it sound xml-rpc centric and its not really php-rpc@ either and this would maybe not be a name that people would immediately point their soap answers to ... all in all web services maybe a non programmers choice (maybe even marketing guys choice), but do we have a better name to wrap these technologies into? php-webservice-tools@ might be better to make clear that this list is more about the tools than about discussing actual web services .. anyways I can live with php-soap@ as well .. so who ever is in charge make the call or let the head honchos about this topic (like shane or brad) deside what the prefer :-) Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DybNet Internet Solutions GbR Reuchlinstr. 10-11 Gebäude 4 1.OG Raum 6 (4.1.6) 10553 Berlin Germany Tel. : +49 30 83 22 50 00 Fax : +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:08 PM To: Andi Gutmans Cc: Shane Caraveo; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL I really don't like the term Web Services. SOAP is an RPC mechanism and has nothing to do with the web despite what M$ would like to have you think. -Rasmus On Fri, 24 May 2002, Andi Gutmans wrote: As I mentioned earlier I am a big +1 for it. Probably php-webservices@ is even better as it covers more and sounds good :) Andi At 11:05 23/05/2002 -0700, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: So do we want a [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list? I can set it up if you say the word. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Shane Caraveo wrote: I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;). There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap stuff as well. Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
At 00:08 24/05/2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: I really don't like the term Web Services. SOAP is an RPC mechanism and has nothing to do with the web despite what M$ would like to have you think. I think that's kind of like saying HTML has nothing to do with the web, but anyway, perception is everything. If people look for web services, then IMHO, that's what they should find. Just wondering though, why not use the wonderful idea of aliases and have both? Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
One reason is xmlrpc doesn't have everything that goes along with soap. meaning WSDL UDDI WebServiceSecurity. and as far as i understand that xmlrpc doesn't work on windows. and with some benchmarks phpsoap so far was 3 times as fast as xmlrpc. - Brad --- Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PHP already has SOAP support bundled in the xmlrpc extension, which is built upon the xmlrpc-epi library that we bundle. Why can't people improve that instead of re-inventing more wheels in all shapes and sizes? When we bundle a library, we should use it. - Stig On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 17:52, Andi Gutmans wrote: I think it's important to have a main stream soap implementation bundled with PHP and not a zillion different implementations floating around. If there is enough interest we could setup a Soap mailing list where interested people could cooperate possibly basing the official PHP Soap implementation on existing work, for example, Brad's work. As I personally don't have the knowledge nor the time I'm just making the suggestion :) It's up to people who are interested in this topic to move it forward. I think it would be extremely beneficial to PHP. Andi At 17:52 23/05/2002 +0200, phpsurf wrote: hi brad lafountain is working on a Soap extension which is not far from being stable. he made a good use of WSDL ... you should have look to http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/phpsoap/ -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: jeudi 23 mai 2002 15:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 14:57:45 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is the current status in terms of SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL in php? How mature are the solutions? When will they be ready for primetime? Does anyone already use them in production (that can be used to show off how great the support is) or are there any other prominent examples? (I know the pear installer uses XMLRPC and Sebastian did something with Googles Webservices) We´ve been trying to make a PEAR::SOAP webservice talk to a VB.NET SOAP client. It does work very well when you stick to passing most primitive datatypes around: Strings, Integers, Floats, Booleans ... It stops being fun when you´re trying more complex structures like resultsets from SQL-Queries. Those could be represented and passed via SOAP as two-dimensional arrays, and in theory you could either use a loosely typed two-dimensional array or an array of struct to represent that data in the VB.NET client - but we did not yet manage to make the client recognize and deserialize the SOAP data from the PHP script. I have not the slightest idea where to start looking. I´ve read tons of articles on SOAP and WSDL, but all in all, the quality of documentation on this topic sucks. PEAR::SOAP itself is as good as undocumented (at least the server part) and the documentation for .NET webservices mostly talks about connecting an ASP.NET webservice to a C# or VB.NET client. When it comes to making SOAP calls to a client/server on another software platform, or even if you just want to use SOAP-RPC encoding instead of the default Document/Literal encoding that .NET does, the documentation is very uncomplete. Thing is, you _have_ to use SOAP-RPC encoding because PEAR::SOAP does not yet support Document/Literal (in fact, Microsoft seem to be the only ones who use this encoding method by default or even fully support it). I guess when it comes to maturity, all available implementations in any language still have a long way to go. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php __ ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet ! vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP... http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Well lets not drift off into a discussion which solution is more feasible. I think it can't be disputed that xmlrpc also has its followers and therefore should see some support that would fit best into a mailinglist with soap. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DybNet Internet Solutions GbR Reuchlinstr. 10-11 Gebäude 4 1.OG Raum 6 (4.1.6) 10553 Berlin Germany Tel. : +49 30 83 22 50 00 Fax : +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: brad lafountain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:29 PM To: Stig S. Bakken; Andi Gutmans Cc: phpsurf; Markus Wolff; Lukas Smith; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL One reason is xmlrpc doesn't have everything that goes along with soap. meaning WSDL UDDI WebServiceSecurity. and as far as i understand that xmlrpc doesn't work on windows. and with some benchmarks phpsoap so far was 3 times as fast as xmlrpc. - Brad --- Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PHP already has SOAP support bundled in the xmlrpc extension, which is built upon the xmlrpc-epi library that we bundle. Why can't people improve that instead of re-inventing more wheels in all shapes and sizes? When we bundle a library, we should use it. - Stig On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 17:52, Andi Gutmans wrote: I think it's important to have a main stream soap implementation bundled with PHP and not a zillion different implementations floating around. If there is enough interest we could setup a Soap mailing list where interested people could cooperate possibly basing the official PHP Soap implementation on existing work, for example, Brad's work. As I personally don't have the knowledge nor the time I'm just making the suggestion :) It's up to people who are interested in this topic to move it forward. I think it would be extremely beneficial to PHP. Andi At 17:52 23/05/2002 +0200, phpsurf wrote: hi brad lafountain is working on a Soap extension which is not far from being stable. he made a good use of WSDL ... you should have look to http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/phpsoap/ -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: jeudi 23 mai 2002 15:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 14:57:45 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is the current status in terms of SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL in php? How mature are the solutions? When will they be ready for primetime? Does anyone already use them in production (that can be used to show off how great the support is) or are there any other prominent examples? (I know the pear installer uses XMLRPC and Sebastian did something with Googles Webservices) We´ve been trying to make a PEAR::SOAP webservice talk to a VB.NET SOAP client. It does work very well when you stick to passing most primitive datatypes around: Strings, Integers, Floats, Booleans ... It stops being fun when you´re trying more complex structures like resultsets from SQL-Queries. Those could be represented and passed via SOAP as two-dimensional arrays, and in theory you could either use a loosely typed two-dimensional array or an array of struct to represent that data in the VB.NET client - but we did not yet manage to make the client recognize and deserialize the SOAP data from the PHP script. I have not the slightest idea where to start looking. I´ve read tons of articles on SOAP and WSDL, but all in all, the quality of documentation on this topic sucks. PEAR::SOAP itself is as good as undocumented (at least the server part) and the documentation for .NET webservices mostly talks about connecting an ASP.NET webservice to a C# or VB.NET client. When it comes to making SOAP calls to a client/server on another software platform, or even if you just want to use SOAP-RPC encoding instead of the default Document/Literal encoding that .NET does, the documentation is very uncomplete. Thing is, you _have_ to use SOAP-RPC encoding because PEAR::SOAP does not yet support Document/Literal (in fact, Microsoft seem to be the only ones who use this encoding method by default or even fully support it). I guess when it comes to maturity, all available implementations in any language still have a long way to go. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
I guess I am confused like many of our users. Yeah this is a huge problem. Most likely this is also why we have so many separate efforts, because everyone felt this area was lacking and felt this area needed some serious effort. Thats why I also think we need a place where all efforts are linked from and people can get information what each implementation can do. This way each of the efforts can also benefit from each other and in the long term people will hopefully agree one implemtation, or atleast for new users there will be a clear choice. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DybNet Internet Solutions GbR Reuchlinstr. 10-11 Gebäude 4 1.OG Raum 6 (4.1.6) 10553 Berlin Germany Tel. : +49 30 83 22 50 00 Fax : +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andi Gutmans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:19 PM To: Stig S. Bakken Cc: phpsurf; Markus Wolff; Lukas Smith; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Stig, I am not keeping up with which PHP SOAP implementations are complete and which are not. I guess I am confused like many of our users. I didn't say we should reinvent the wheel. All I said is that everyone should get together and standardize PHP's SOAP support and get it documented and advertised. If the best base will be xmlrpc-epi (time for a name change? :) then that's fine. Andi At 23:15 23/05/2002 +0200, Stig S. Bakken wrote: PHP already has SOAP support bundled in the xmlrpc extension, which is built upon the xmlrpc-epi library that we bundle. Why can't people improve that instead of re-inventing more wheels in all shapes and sizes? When we bundle a library, we should use it. - Stig On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 17:52, Andi Gutmans wrote: I think it's important to have a main stream soap implementation bundled with PHP and not a zillion different implementations floating around. If there is enough interest we could setup a Soap mailing list where interested people could cooperate possibly basing the official PHP Soap implementation on existing work, for example, Brad's work. As I personally don't have the knowledge nor the time I'm just making the suggestion :) It's up to people who are interested in this topic to move it forward. I think it would be extremely beneficial to PHP. Andi At 17:52 23/05/2002 +0200, phpsurf wrote: hi brad lafountain is working on a Soap extension which is not far from being stable. he made a good use of WSDL ... you should have look to http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/phpsoap/ -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: jeudi 23 mai 2002 15:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 14:57:45 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is the current status in terms of SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL in php? How mature are the solutions? When will they be ready for primetime? Does anyone already use them in production (that can be used to show off how great the support is) or are there any other prominent examples? (I know the pear installer uses XMLRPC and Sebastian did something with Googles Webservices) We´ve been trying to make a PEAR::SOAP webservice talk to a VB.NET SOAP client. It does work very well when you stick to passing most primitive datatypes around: Strings, Integers, Floats, Booleans ... It stops being fun when you´re trying more complex structures like resultsets from SQL-Queries. Those could be represented and passed via SOAP as two-dimensional arrays, and in theory you could either use a loosely typed two-dimensional array or an array of struct to represent that data in the VB.NET client - but we did not yet manage to make the client recognize and deserialize the SOAP data from the PHP script. I have not the slightest idea where to start looking. I´ve read tons of articles on SOAP and WSDL, but all in all, the quality of documentation on this topic sucks. PEAR::SOAP itself is as good as undocumented (at least the server part) and the documentation for .NET webservices mostly talks about connecting an ASP.NET webservice to a C# or VB.NET client. When it comes to making SOAP calls to a client/server on another software platform, or even if you just want to use SOAP-RPC encoding instead of the default Document/Literal encoding that .NET does, the documentation is very uncomplete. Thing is, you _have_ to use SOAP-RPC encoding because PEAR::SOAP does not yet support Document/Literal (in fact, Microsoft seem to be the only ones who use
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Well my extension i was going for a solid implmentation of soap that could run out of the box. With many features and tightly intergrated with zend and other extensions like domxml and php-streams. I think my extension has some value here. I would like to see my soap be the soap implementation that you speak of. Again, I have cvs accounts and a php look-a-like website all hosted on sourceforge.net. I don't mind converting everything to php cvs and php site. When i first started working on this extension, the list didn't seem to interested so i went of on my own and built a website and put it up on sourceforge. More people are obvisouly interested now maybe i can put this in the right place. - Brad --- Andi Gutmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then go for soap, that's fine too. The most important thing is that we manage to get good SOAP support into PHP which will work out of the box and can be documented officially in the manual. Andi At 14:08 23/05/2002 -0700, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: I really don't like the term Web Services. SOAP is an RPC mechanism and has nothing to do with the web despite what M$ would like to have you think. -Rasmus On Fri, 24 May 2002, Andi Gutmans wrote: As I mentioned earlier I am a big +1 for it. Probably php-webservices@ is even better as it covers more and sounds good :) Andi At 11:05 23/05/2002 -0700, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: So do we want a [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list? I can set it up if you say the word. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Shane Caraveo wrote: I would be happy to lead the effort on the soap front. I've spoken a bit with Brad about combining our efforts but got sidetracked over the last couple weeks so haven't followed up on that. I'm also not sure whether Deitrich is tied to NuSphere with his work, it'd be nice if we could get him to work on this also (I'm sure he's lurking here ;). There have been a couple others contacting me about working on the soap stuff as well. Shane Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: pear/SOAP seems to work pretty well. There are few people out there that know more about SOAP than Shane and I am quite comfortable having him spearheading this effort. We can easily set up a php-soap mailing list if enough people are interested. -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lukas Smith wrote: Yeah, I keep seeing PHP SOAP and XMLRPC being announce packages everywhere. But incompatible API's will not benefit PHP much and the efforts are simply redundant. I think it would make sense to create such a mailinglist. As I am still fairly busy with working on a merge of Metabase and PEAR DB called MDB (blatant plug :-) ) I can't spend as much time as I would wish on this topic. For now I will try to order the feedback I get and put together a little static page with the content. Basically I will take every package I find and list it there and put any comments people send regarding that package underneath. Best regards, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php __ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Stig S. Bakken said: PHP already has SOAP support bundled in the xmlrpc extension, which is built upon the xmlrpc-epi library that we bundle. Why can't people improve that instead of re-inventing more wheels in all shapes and sizes? When we bundle a library, we should use it. - Stig Unfortunately, not all (in fact, very few) providers install that extension - as well as they don´t install many other useful but not-so- common extensions. They´ll keep it this way unless enough people ask for it. But as long as only few people know these extensions exist (in part because so few providers install them), not enough people will ask for them. The best thinkable solutions would be: a) Bundle a library like PEAR::SOAP with PHP that is modified in a way that it automatically detects if the xmlrpc-epi extension is installed. If so, PEAR::SOAP only acts as a wrapper class around the calls to the extension. Else, it uses its own, slower PHP routines. b) Integrate xmlrpc-epi support as a standard extension that is installed by default. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Stig S. Bakken said: PHP already has SOAP support bundled in the xmlrpc extension, which is built upon the xmlrpc-epi library that we bundle. Why can't people improve that instead of re-inventing more wheels in all shapes and sizes? When we bundle a library, we should use it. - Stig Unfortunately, not all (in fact, very few) providers install that extension - as well as they don´t install many other useful but not-so- common extensions. They´ll keep it this way unless enough people ask for it. But as long as only few people know these extensions exist (in part because so few providers install them), not enough people will ask for them. The best thinkable solutions would be: a) Bundle a library like PEAR::SOAP with PHP that is modified in a way that it automatically detects if the xmlrpc-epi extension is installed. If so, PEAR::SOAP only acts as a wrapper class around the calls to the extension. Else, it uses its own, slower PHP routines. b) Integrate xmlrpc-epi support as a standard extension that is installed by default. Sounds like the way to go. This way everybody can use it and gain optimal performance from their environment and developers don't have to worry about it either. Hopefully someday we will be able to do the same with MDB (or atleast with large chunks of it) Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DybNet Internet Solutions GbR Reuchlinstr. 10-11 Gebäude 4 1.OG Raum 6 (4.1.6) 10553 Berlin Germany Tel. : +49 30 83 22 50 00 Fax : +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 23:28, brad lafountain wrote: One reason is xmlrpc doesn't have everything that goes along with soap. meaning WSDL UDDI WebServiceSecurity. WSDL can be implemented through the introspection stuff in ext/xmlrpc. It's just about describing/documenting the available interfaces, right? UDDI is just a catalog service AFAIK, so that would fit better on top of the SOAP stuff. and as far as i understand that xmlrpc doesn't work on windows. and with some benchmarks phpsoap so far was 3 times as fast as xmlrpc. Really? What XML parser are you using? - Brad --- Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PHP already has SOAP support bundled in the xmlrpc extension, which is built upon the xmlrpc-epi library that we bundle. Why can't people improve that instead of re-inventing more wheels in all shapes and sizes? When we bundle a library, we should use it. - Stig On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 17:52, Andi Gutmans wrote: I think it's important to have a main stream soap implementation bundled with PHP and not a zillion different implementations floating around. If there is enough interest we could setup a Soap mailing list where interested people could cooperate possibly basing the official PHP Soap implementation on existing work, for example, Brad's work. As I personally don't have the knowledge nor the time I'm just making the suggestion :) It's up to people who are interested in this topic to move it forward. I think it would be extremely beneficial to PHP. Andi At 17:52 23/05/2002 +0200, phpsurf wrote: hi brad lafountain is working on a Soap extension which is not far from being stable. he made a good use of WSDL ... you should have look to http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/phpsoap/ -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: jeudi 23 mai 2002 15:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 14:57:45 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is the current status in terms of SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL in php? How mature are the solutions? When will they be ready for primetime? Does anyone already use them in production (that can be used to show off how great the support is) or are there any other prominent examples? (I know the pear installer uses XMLRPC and Sebastian did something with Googles Webservices) We´ve been trying to make a PEAR::SOAP webservice talk to a VB.NET SOAP client. It does work very well when you stick to passing most primitive datatypes around: Strings, Integers, Floats, Booleans ... It stops being fun when you´re trying more complex structures like resultsets from SQL-Queries. Those could be represented and passed via SOAP as two-dimensional arrays, and in theory you could either use a loosely typed two-dimensional array or an array of struct to represent that data in the VB.NET client - but we did not yet manage to make the client recognize and deserialize the SOAP data from the PHP script. I have not the slightest idea where to start looking. I´ve read tons of articles on SOAP and WSDL, but all in all, the quality of documentation on this topic sucks. PEAR::SOAP itself is as good as undocumented (at least the server part) and the documentation for .NET webservices mostly talks about connecting an ASP.NET webservice to a C# or VB.NET client. When it comes to making SOAP calls to a client/server on another software platform, or even if you just want to use SOAP-RPC encoding instead of the default Document/Literal encoding that .NET does, the documentation is very uncomplete. Thing is, you _have_ to use SOAP-RPC encoding because PEAR::SOAP does not yet support Document/Literal (in fact, Microsoft seem to be the only ones who use this encoding method by default or even fully support it). I guess when it comes to maturity, all available implementations in any language still have a long way to go. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php __ ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet ! vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP... http
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
--- Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 23:28, brad lafountain wrote: One reason is xmlrpc doesn't have everything that goes along with soap. meaning WSDL UDDI WebServiceSecurity. WSDL can be implemented through the introspection stuff in ext/xmlrpc. It's just about describing/documenting the available interfaces, right? UDDI is just a catalog service AFAIK, so that would fit better on top of the SOAP stuff. and as far as i understand that xmlrpc doesn't work on windows. and with some benchmarks phpsoap so far was 3 times as fast as xmlrpc. Really? What XML parser are you using? libxml2... - Brad - Brad --- Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PHP already has SOAP support bundled in the xmlrpc extension, which is built upon the xmlrpc-epi library that we bundle. Why can't people improve that instead of re-inventing more wheels in all shapes and sizes? When we bundle a library, we should use it. - Stig On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 17:52, Andi Gutmans wrote: I think it's important to have a main stream soap implementation bundled with PHP and not a zillion different implementations floating around. If there is enough interest we could setup a Soap mailing list where interested people could cooperate possibly basing the official PHP Soap implementation on existing work, for example, Brad's work. As I personally don't have the knowledge nor the time I'm just making the suggestion :) It's up to people who are interested in this topic to move it forward. I think it would be extremely beneficial to PHP. Andi At 17:52 23/05/2002 +0200, phpsurf wrote: hi brad lafountain is working on a Soap extension which is not far from being stable. he made a good use of WSDL ... you should have look to http://phpsoaptoolkit.sourceforge.net/phpsoap/ -Original Message- From: Markus Wolff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: jeudi 23 mai 2002 15:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL Am Thu, 23 May 2002 14:57:45 +0200 schrieb Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is the current status in terms of SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL in php? How mature are the solutions? When will they be ready for primetime? Does anyone already use them in production (that can be used to show off how great the support is) or are there any other prominent examples? (I know the pear installer uses XMLRPC and Sebastian did something with Googles Webservices) We´ve been trying to make a PEAR::SOAP webservice talk to a VB.NET SOAP client. It does work very well when you stick to passing most primitive datatypes around: Strings, Integers, Floats, Booleans ... It stops being fun when you´re trying more complex structures like resultsets from SQL-Queries. Those could be represented and passed via SOAP as two-dimensional arrays, and in theory you could either use a loosely typed two-dimensional array or an array of struct to represent that data in the VB.NET client - but we did not yet manage to make the client recognize and deserialize the SOAP data from the PHP script. I have not the slightest idea where to start looking. I´ve read tons of articles on SOAP and WSDL, but all in all, the quality of documentation on this topic sucks. PEAR::SOAP itself is as good as undocumented (at least the server part) and the documentation for .NET webservices mostly talks about connecting an ASP.NET webservice to a C# or VB.NET client. When it comes to making SOAP calls to a client/server on another software platform, or even if you just want to use SOAP-RPC encoding instead of the default Document/Literal encoding that .NET does, the documentation is very uncomplete. Thing is, you _have_ to use SOAP-RPC encoding because PEAR::SOAP does not yet support Document/Literal (in fact, Microsoft seem to be the only ones who use this encoding method by default or even fully support it). I guess when it comes to maturity, all available implementations in any language still have a long way to go. Regards, Markus -- *21st Media*| Consulting, Konzeption, Produktion für die Bereiche: Markus Wolff| Internet, Intranet, eCommerce, Content Management, Hamburg,Germany | Softwareentwicklung, 3D-Animation, Videostreaming http://21st.de | Tel. [+49](0)40/6887949-0, Fax: [+49](0)40/6887949-1 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 23:38, Markus Wolff wrote: Stig S. Bakken said: PHP already has SOAP support bundled in the xmlrpc extension, which is built upon the xmlrpc-epi library that we bundle. Why can't people improve that instead of re-inventing more wheels in all shapes and sizes? When we bundle a library, we should use it. - Stig Unfortunately, not all (in fact, very few) providers install that extension - as well as they don´t install many other useful but not-so- common extensions. They´ll keep it this way unless enough people ask for it. But as long as only few people know these extensions exist (in part because so few providers install them), not enough people will ask for them. The best thinkable solutions would be: a) Bundle a library like PEAR::SOAP with PHP that is modified in a way that it automatically detects if the xmlrpc-epi extension is installed. If so, PEAR::SOAP only acts as a wrapper class around the calls to the extension. Else, it uses its own, slower PHP routines. b) Integrate xmlrpc-epi support as a standard extension that is installed by default. I think this is a good approach. It's the same thing we did with PEAR DB: make a good API first. The only thing that worries me with the PEAR SOAP and PEAR XML_RPC APIs is that they use objects for everything, even a boolean is represented by a freaking object, both slow and very cumbersome. The beauty of xmlrpc-epi is that you deal with native PHP types (with some extra hacks for binary and date strings). This means exporting existing functions through xmlrpc is as easy as can be. - Stig -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Unless some work has been done on it, I found it very lacking. Many things are hardcoded in C that would make it hardly interoperable with other implementations. Shane In fact, xmlrpc-epi also supports SOAP: ---[SNIP]--- As of Sept. 27, 2001, experimental support for SOAP v 1.1 has been added to the library. This support is implemented transparently to the application such that a single API can be used for manipulation of values, yet both SOAP and XML-RPC can be read or written. ---[/SNIP]--- However, I did not yet have the possibility to try it out so I don´t know whether things like WSDL and UDDI are supported. Also, the last file release is from September 26th - doesn´t look like a very active project. Regards, Markus -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
On Thu, 23 May 2002 20:08:48 +0200, Lukas Smith wrote: It sounds to me like something like webservices.php.net would be in order. I don't think that having yet another subdomain does make much sense. Actually I prefer to have documentation for whatever comes out of this discussion in the PHP or in the PEAR manual. - Martin -- Martin Jansen, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.martin-jansen.de/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
--- Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2002-05-24 at 00:10, brad lafountain wrote: --- Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2002-05-23 at 23:28, brad lafountain wrote: One reason is xmlrpc doesn't have everything that goes along with soap. meaning WSDL UDDI WebServiceSecurity. WSDL can be implemented through the introspection stuff in ext/xmlrpc. It's just about describing/documenting the available interfaces, right? UDDI is just a catalog service AFAIK, so that would fit better on top of the SOAP stuff. and as far as i understand that xmlrpc doesn't work on windows. and with some benchmarks phpsoap so far was 3 times as fast as xmlrpc. Really? What XML parser are you using? libxml2... I'd really like stuff like this to build out of the box in PHP. Bundling expat was great because we didn't have to think about it anymore. My impression is that libxml2 is rarely installed by default (GNOME still uses 1.8 for instance). But I guess we'll have to deal with that sooner or later anyway, since libxml2 looks like the best xml library out there and more extensions want to use it. Could we bundle libxml2, or does the LGPL prevent us from doing that? I don't know about the LGPL but i would love to see it bundled. This would also help the domxml extension cause it requires a newer version than most people have. - Brad - Stig -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php __ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
On Thu, 23 May 2002 15:27:00 -0700, Shane Caraveo wrote: Markus Wolff wrote: The best thinkable solutions would be: a) Bundle a library like PEAR::SOAP with PHP that is modified in a way that it automatically detects if the xmlrpc-epi extension is installed. If so, PEAR::SOAP only acts as a wrapper class around the calls to the extension. Else, it uses its own, slower PHP routines. This is exactly what I've wanted to do. Just for the records: I like this plan and I think that we should try to push this forward. Brad: Without knowing very much about your SOAP project: Do you think that it is possible to merge your code with the xmlrpc-epi extension? - Martin -- Martin Jansen, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.martin-jansen.de/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
At 00:08 24/05/2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: I really don't like the term Web Services. SOAP is an RPC mechanism and has nothing to do with the web despite what M$ would like to have you think. I think that's kind of like saying HTML has nothing to do with the web, but anyway, perception is everything. If people look for web services, then IMHO, that's what they should find. Well, HTML is an intrical part of the Web and I don't see how that can be compared to SOAP at all. In order for SOAP to be part of the Web it needs to conform to the HTTP protocol and to the concepts that defines the Web. It doesn't do that at all today. It has taken the URL and other HTTP header control data and completely mangled it by pushing content and commands over it that do not match the semantics of the HTTP header control data. Just because you tunnel something over port 80 to avoid being blocked by firewalls doesn't suddenly mean you are now a web protocol. This argument is a current battle within the W3C where a lot of people would like to see SOAP kicked out of the organization. Nobody has ever threatened to kick the HTML working groups out of the W3C. -Rasmus -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
I think the point Zeev was making is that in real life these days many decision makers are looking for the web services buzz word when choosing a technology. Telling them PHP supports web services can only be a good thing in the fight against MS and other giants. In many people's perception SOAP is part of web services. We're not going to educate the whole software industry *even* if there are inaccuracies out there. And as far as I see it PHP is going to be in a battle with .NET and J2EE. Anyway, it's not worth getting into a long discussion about it I just wanted to explain that perception, as Zeev put it, everything or almost everything. Andi At 15:39 23/05/2002 -0700, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: At 00:08 24/05/2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: I really don't like the term Web Services. SOAP is an RPC mechanism and has nothing to do with the web despite what M$ would like to have you think. I think that's kind of like saying HTML has nothing to do with the web, but anyway, perception is everything. If people look for web services, then IMHO, that's what they should find. Well, HTML is an intrical part of the Web and I don't see how that can be compared to SOAP at all. In order for SOAP to be part of the Web it needs to conform to the HTTP protocol and to the concepts that defines the Web. It doesn't do that at all today. It has taken the URL and other HTTP header control data and completely mangled it by pushing content and commands over it that do not match the semantics of the HTTP header control data. Just because you tunnel something over port 80 to avoid being blocked by firewalls doesn't suddenly mean you are now a web protocol. This argument is a current battle within the W3C where a lot of people would like to see SOAP kicked out of the organization. Nobody has ever threatened to kick the HTML working groups out of the W3C. -Rasmus -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
At 02:04 24/05/2002 +0300, Andi Gutmans wrote: I think the point Zeev was making is that in real life these days many decision makers are looking for the web services buzz word when choosing a technology. Telling them PHP supports web services can only be a good thing in the fight against MS and other giants. In many people's perception SOAP is part of web services. We're not going to educate the whole software industry *even* if there are inaccuracies out there. And as far as I see it PHP is going to be in a battle with .NET and J2EE. Anyway, it's not worth getting into a long discussion about it I just wanted to explain that perception, as Zeev put it, everything or almost everything. That was supposed to say is everything or almost everything :) Andi -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
So this is what I propose... setup [EMAIL PROTECTED] for further conversation. As a starting point PEAR::SOAP is a script wrapper around a C level extension. It's available in absence of the C extension, and for additional features that don't make sence to implement in C, or for fast extendability. Brad's C extension is far more advanced than what is in xmlrpc-epi so I would go for using it. Move Brad's extension into PECL or the main PHP distribution (???) Get everyone involved/interested to go through the features of PEAR::SOAP and ext/soap, and lets come up with a common API for both to use. Getting them using the same API will allow for the wrapping of the C classes and other things like test harness and the interop scripts in PEAR::SOAP to work with ext/soap. Shane -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
At 16:21 23/05/2002 -0700, Shane Caraveo wrote: So this is what I propose... setup [EMAIL PROTECTED] for further conversation. Yep. As a starting point PEAR::SOAP is a script wrapper around a C level extension. It's available in absence of the C extension, and for additional features that don't make sence to implement in C, or for fast extendability. Brad's C extension is far more advanced than what is in xmlrpc-epi so I would go for using it. Move Brad's extension into PECL or the main PHP distribution (???) I think it'd be nice to have an ext/soap in the main distribution. It also sounds to me that Brad's work is more advanced but I guess that'll be up to soap@ to decide :) Get everyone involved/interested to go through the features of PEAR::SOAP and ext/soap, and lets come up with a common API for both to use. Getting them using the same API will allow for the wrapping of the C classes and other things like test harness and the interop scripts in PEAR::SOAP to work with ext/soap. I agree. Andi -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Ok, [EMAIL PROTECTED] now exists. If it turns out that a general web services list is needed, we'll create that, but for more let's simply move all the SOAP-specific discussion to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list. Subscribe to it by sending a subscribe request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Rasmus On Thu, 23 May 2002, Shane Caraveo wrote: So this is what I propose... setup [EMAIL PROTECTED] for further conversation. As a starting point PEAR::SOAP is a script wrapper around a C level extension. It's available in absence of the C extension, and for additional features that don't make sence to implement in C, or for fast extendability. Brad's C extension is far more advanced than what is in xmlrpc-epi so I would go for using it. Move Brad's extension into PECL or the main PHP distribution (???) Get everyone involved/interested to go through the features of PEAR::SOAP and ext/soap, and lets come up with a common API for both to use. Getting them using the same API will allow for the wrapping of the C classes and other things like test harness and the interop scripts in PEAR::SOAP to work with ext/soap. Shane -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
At 01:39 24/05/2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: Well, HTML is an intrical part of the Web and I don't see how that can be compared to SOAP at all. In order for SOAP to be part of the Web it needs to conform to the HTTP protocol and to the concepts that defines the Web. It doesn't do that at all today. It has taken the URL and other HTTP header control data and completely mangled it by pushing content and commands over it that do not match the semantics of the HTTP header control data. Just because you tunnel something over port 80 to avoid being blocked by firewalls doesn't suddenly mean you are now a web protocol. This argument is a current battle within the W3C where a lot of people would like to see SOAP kicked out of the organization. Nobody has ever threatened to kick the HTML working groups out of the W3C. Much like you can use HTML in stuff that has nothing to do with the web, you can use SOAP in stuff that has nothing to do with the web, and vice versa. HTML has no inherent features that make it web specific, and the same is true for SOAP, and yet, they were both born on the web, even if they have other usages. The specifics of SOAP are really beside the point here, for all practical purposes, SOAP has everything to do with the web. Anyway, it was just an anecdote, if you think it has nothing to do with the web, it's your right. Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: Ok, [EMAIL PROTECTED] now exists. If it turns out that a general web services list is needed, we'll create that, but for more let's simply move all the SOAP-specific discussion to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list. Subscribe to it by sending a subscribe request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Rasmus Could anyone make it available to news.php.net? -- Yasuo Ohgaki -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PEAR-DEV] SOAP, XMLRPC and WSDL
I'd really like stuff like this to build out of the box in PHP. Bundling expat was great because we didn't have to think about it anymore. My impression is that libxml2 is rarely installed by default (GNOME still uses 1.8 for instance). But I guess we'll have to deal with that sooner or later anyway, since libxml2 looks like the best xml library out there and more extensions want to use it. Could we bundle libxml2, or does the LGPL prevent us from doing that? I don't know about the LGPL but i would love to see it bundled. This would also help the domxml extension cause it requires a newer version than most people have. The easiest thing is to contact the author and ask him for permission. Then you don't have to worry about licenses. We did the same thing with other code which was included. libxml and libxslt are both under the MIT license, which are probably the freest of the opensource licenses... I think that they should be the bundled default *instead of* expat (not in addition to, things just get too messy :) I put some thoughts up (relating to this) a bit ago: http://bumblebury.com/phptodo/xmsl.html... -Sterling -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
