Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
Richard, you obviously can't read, or maybe you just have cognition problems. Danny Lomax quite explicitly stated that the reason for his bid was to stop someone else from getting it for less than he might have paid otherwise. it's the old game of water rights. You buy the land upriver, dam it off, and jack the price for water. Hold on long enough, and you can permanently alter the pricing structure...If you're one who believes that's a valid moral position, then you're no better than Danny-boy. -Original Message- From: Richard Sumner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Mr. Lomax placed his bid and was ready to buy it at that price. Someone else was willing to pay a bit more. If I needed another license, I would have made a bid myself, possibly much higher (it went rather cheaply compared to what I paid for 3.5 and upgrades to 99se), but I don't and I didn't. That's called an auction, and I have no argument with it. Richard Sumner At 03:52 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: 'Abd ul-Rahman Lomax' said: I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). I (and others may) still think that the attitude; I see someone on Ebay selling the same product that I do. It is now at a very low price, maybe lower that what I pay. I do not want anyone to get this product for this low a price because of how it may effect me and the market. I have no desire to buy this product myself right now, but I will bid a significantly higher price to prevent anyone else from getting a lower price, and if I get that price, I am willing to pay for it. ...as being quite selfish, and against the basic principal of auctions. I know that this probably happens all the time, and that there is little that can be done about it. I would also point out that if the seller engages in this kind of activity, that this is explicitly against the bidding policies, and can be reacted to quite vigorously by the auctioneer. I would also consider this behavior contrary to the free market, and could even be considered market manipulation - ala Enron, etc. Now, if you wanted to get into a typical bidding competition, this is exactly the spirit of auctions, and may have resulted is a similar or higher ending price - whether you won or not. I would recommend it may be safer not share your participation in this kind of activity in the future - regardless how benevolent or 'fair' you may consider your motivations to be. Cheesecote Mountain CAMAC, 24 Halley Drive; Pomona, NY 10970 voice: 845 364 0211, fax: 845 362 6947, www.cmcamac.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
Andrew, you shouldn't really attack Richard; it's below you. He can read perfectly well because Mr. Lomax stated: But I'd have been very happy to buy the license at the $2025 I bid. You may not like what he did, but your analogy is way out of wack. If no one else outbid Mr. Lomax then he would have owned it for $2025. Period. No cheating or screwing anyone out of anything. Even if he bid the extreme price of $5999 (which is $1 below a non-sale, upgrade-to-DXP seat would cost from Altuim directly) and some fool outbid him by $100 (putting it above the direct-from-Altuim price, it still isn't Mr. Lomax's fault for cheating anyone out of anything. The fool that outbid in this scenario is simply a fool. I have purchased most of my lab at auction (not ebay but traditional auctions here in layoff Silicon Valley) and I see morons bidding for stuff that can be purchased NEW FROM AGILENT for less. What is that all about?? They are fools too. Tony -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:00 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay Richard, you obviously can't read, or maybe you just have cognition problems. Danny Lomax quite explicitly stated that the reason for his bid was to stop someone else from getting it for less than he might have paid otherwise. it's the old game of water rights. You buy the land upriver, dam it off, and jack the price for water. Hold on long enough, and you can permanently alter the pricing structure...If you're one who believes that's a valid moral position, then you're no better than Danny-boy. -Original Message- From: Richard Sumner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Mr. Lomax placed his bid and was ready to buy it at that price. Someone else was willing to pay a bit more. If I needed another license, I would have made a bid myself, possibly much higher (it went rather cheaply compared to what I paid for 3.5 and upgrades to 99se), but I don't and I didn't. That's called an auction, and I have no argument with it. Richard Sumner At 03:52 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: 'Abd ul-Rahman Lomax' said: I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). I (and others may) still think that the attitude; I see someone on Ebay selling the same product that I do. It is now at a very low price, maybe lower that what I pay. I do not want anyone to get this product for this low a price because of how it may effect me and the market. I have no desire to buy this product myself right now, but I will bid a significantly higher price to prevent anyone else from getting a lower price, and if I get that price, I am willing to pay for it. ...as being quite selfish, and against the basic principal of auctions. I know that this probably happens all the time, and that there is little that can be done about it. I would also point out that if the seller engages in this kind of activity, that this is explicitly against the bidding policies, and can be reacted to quite vigorously by the auctioneer. I would also consider this behavior contrary to the free market, and could even be considered market manipulation - ala Enron, etc. Now, if you wanted to get into a typical bidding competition, this is exactly the spirit of auctions, and may have resulted is a similar or higher ending price - whether you won or not. I would recommend it may be safer not share your participation in this kind of activity in the future - regardless how benevolent or 'fair' you may consider your motivations to be. Cheesecote Mountain CAMAC, 24 Halley Drive; Pomona, NY 10970 voice: 845 364 0211, fax: 845 362 6947, www.cmcamac.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
Tony, I read Danny's post quite clearly. He did what he did in order to screw someone else, period. That he was willing to purchase the software in order to accomplish that task is irregardless. That he satated his intention is, however, of great meirt in determinjning whether his behavior was simply that of an auction participant or classic slime-ball behavior. And frankly, as you should know by now, I don't care whether anyone else agrees with my stance, even though it's quite clear that there are enough others within the group who already do (and who pre-empted my post on the subject) that if I did, I would not feel isolated in saying so... aj * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
Yes - he was willing to pay the price - if he had to. But, the motivation was not that he wanted it, not that he needed it, but to raise the price so others would no longer be able to win at a lower price, and hope that someone would outbid him so he wouldn't have to pay. -Original Message- From: Richard Sumner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 6:01 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay Mr. Lomax placed his bid and was ready to buy it at that price. Someone else was willing to pay a bit more. If I needed another license, I would have made a bid myself, possibly much higher (it went rather cheaply compared to what I paid for 3.5 and upgrades to 99se), but I don't and I didn't. That's called an auction, and I have no argument with it. Richard Sumner At 03:52 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: 'Abd ul-Rahman Lomax' said: I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). I (and others may) still think that the attitude; I see someone on Ebay selling the same product that I do. It is now at a very low price, maybe lower that what I pay. I do not want anyone to get this product for this low a price because of how it may effect me and the market. I have no desire to buy this product myself right now, but I will bid a significantly higher price to prevent anyone else from getting a lower price, and if I get that price, I am willing to pay for it. ...as being quite selfish, and against the basic principal of auctions. I know that this probably happens all the time, and that there is little that can be done about it. I would also point out that if the seller engages in this kind of activity, that this is explicitly against the bidding policies, and can be reacted to quite vigorously by the auctioneer. I would also consider this behavior contrary to the free market, and could even be considered market manipulation - ala Enron, etc. Now, if you wanted to get into a typical bidding competition, this is exactly the spirit of auctions, and may have resulted is a similar or higher ending price - whether you won or not. I would recommend it may be safer not share your participation in this kind of activity in the future - regardless how benevolent or 'fair' you may consider your motivations to be. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
I agree. So without further comment, I point out that one can see the bidding history on ebay. The 3 higher (than windsand) bids all arrived in the last minute. The winning bid arrived 8 seconds before the end (he probably used a sniping service). At 05:20 PM 1/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: Ok guys this has been beat to death here, lets talk technical and leave the business ethics for elsewhere. - Original Message - From: Bruce Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay Yes - he was willing to pay the price - if he had to. But, the motivation was not that he wanted it, not that he needed it, but to raise the price so others would no longer be able to win at a lower price, and hope that someone would outbid him so he wouldn't have to pay. -Original Message- From: Richard Sumner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 6:01 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay Mr. Lomax placed his bid and was ready to buy it at that price. Someone else was willing to pay a bit more. If I needed another license, I would have made a bid myself, possibly much higher (it went rather cheaply compared to what I paid for 3.5 and upgrades to 99se), but I don't and I didn't. That's called an auction, and I have no argument with it. Richard Sumner At 03:52 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: 'Abd ul-Rahman Lomax' said: I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). I (and others may) still think that the attitude; I see someone on Ebay selling the same product that I do. It is now at a very low price, maybe lower that what I pay. I do not want anyone to get this product for this low a price because of how it may effect me and the market. I have no desire to buy this product myself right now, but I will bid a significantly higher price to prevent anyone else from getting a lower price, and if I get that price, I am willing to pay for it. ...as being quite selfish, and against the basic principal of auctions. I know that this probably happens all the time, and that there is little that can be done about it. I would also point out that if the seller engages in this kind of activity, that this is explicitly against the bidding policies, and can be reacted to quite vigorously by the auctioneer. I would also consider this behavior contrary to the free market, and could even be considered market manipulation - ala Enron, etc. Now, if you wanted to get into a typical bidding competition, this is exactly the spirit of auctions, and may have resulted is a similar or higher ending price - whether you won or not. I would recommend it may be safer not share your participation in this kind of activity in the future - regardless how benevolent or 'fair' you may consider your motivations to be. Cheesecote Mountain CAMAC, 24 Halley Drive; Pomona, NY 10970 voice: 845 364 0211, fax: 845 362 6947, www.cmcamac.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
the last minute. The winning bid arrived 8 seconds before the end (he probably used a sniping service). Actually, I didn't use a sniping service. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
- Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. As Sargent Shultz used to say: I know nothink! :-) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
Ok guys this has been beat to death here, lets talk technical and leave the business ethics for elsewhere. Seriously! It's Ebay--Caveat emptor. End of story. If you think $2K is an unfair price, don't bid. Stupid question--is one's license to use Protel actually legally transferable? Most software licenses (esp. for CAD stuff) I've seen seem to prohibit selling the license to another party. (apologies if this starts another war!) - Original Message - From: Bruce Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay Yes - he was willing to pay the price - if he had to. But, the motivation was not that he wanted it, not that he needed it, but to raise the price so others would no longer be able to win at a lower price, and hope that someone would outbid him so he wouldn't have to pay. -Original Message- From: Richard Sumner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 6:01 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay Mr. Lomax placed his bid and was ready to buy it at that price. Someone else was willing to pay a bit more. If I needed another license, I would have made a bid myself, possibly much higher (it went rather cheaply compared to what I paid for 3.5 and upgrades to 99se), but I don't and I didn't. That's called an auction, and I have no argument with it. Richard Sumner At 03:52 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: 'Abd ul-Rahman Lomax' said: I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). I (and others may) still think that the attitude; I see someone on Ebay selling the same product that I do. It is now at a very low price, maybe lower that what I pay. I do not want anyone to get this product for this low a price because of how it may effect me and the market. I have no desire to buy this product myself right now, but I will bid a significantly higher price to prevent anyone else from getting a lower price, and if I get that price, I am willing to pay for it. ...as being quite selfish, and against the basic principal of auctions. I know that this probably happens all the time, and that there is little that can be done about it. I would also point out that if the seller engages in this kind of activity, that this is explicitly against the bidding policies, and can be reacted to quite vigorously by the auctioneer. I would also consider this behavior contrary to the free market, and could even be considered market manipulation - ala Enron, etc. Now, if you wanted to get into a typical bidding competition, this is exactly the spirit of auctions, and may have resulted is a similar or higher ending price - whether you won or not. I would recommend it may be safer not share your participation in this kind of activity in the future - regardless how benevolent or 'fair' you may consider your motivations to be. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
Yes it's completely transferable (at least it says so in the 99SE license), and it's the most generous policy I've seen with a s/w vendor. People shouldn't go buying ones on ebay if they truly are not transferable because this will be taken away if abused. -Original Message- From: Peter W. Richards [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:03 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay Ok guys this has been beat to death here, lets talk technical and leave the business ethics for elsewhere. Seriously! It's Ebay--Caveat emptor. End of story. If you think $2K is an unfair price, don't bid. Stupid question--is one's license to use Protel actually legally transferable? Most software licenses (esp. for CAD stuff) I've seen seem to prohibit selling the license to another party. (apologies if this starts another war!) - Original Message - From: Bruce Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay Yes - he was willing to pay the price - if he had to. But, the motivation was not that he wanted it, not that he needed it, but to raise the price so others would no longer be able to win at a lower price, and hope that someone would outbid him so he wouldn't have to pay. -Original Message- From: Richard Sumner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 6:01 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay Mr. Lomax placed his bid and was ready to buy it at that price. Someone else was willing to pay a bit more. If I needed another license, I would have made a bid myself, possibly much higher (it went rather cheaply compared to what I paid for 3.5 and upgrades to 99se), but I don't and I didn't. That's called an auction, and I have no argument with it. Richard Sumner At 03:52 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: 'Abd ul-Rahman Lomax' said: I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). I (and others may) still think that the attitude; I see someone on Ebay selling the same product that I do. It is now at a very low price, maybe lower that what I pay. I do not want anyone to get this product for this low a price because of how it may effect me and the market. I have no desire to buy this product myself right now, but I will bid a significantly higher price to prevent anyone else from getting a lower price, and if I get that price, I am willing to pay for it. ...as being quite selfish, and against the basic principal of auctions. I know that this probably happens all the time, and that there is little that can be done about it. I would also point out that if the seller engages in this kind of activity, that this is explicitly against the bidding policies, and can be reacted to quite vigorously by the auctioneer. I would also consider this behavior contrary to the free market, and could even be considered market manipulation - ala Enron, etc. Now, if you wanted to get into a typical bidding competition, this is exactly the spirit of auctions, and may have resulted is a similar or higher ending price - whether you won or not. I would recommend it may be safer not share your participation in this kind of activity in the future - regardless how benevolent or 'fair' you may consider your motivations to be. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
Abdul: That was not nice of you to bid up the price if you didn't want it for yourself. You just made somebody pay more than he should have. Stunts like this are why I have never bought anything by e-bay. Last year I had my assistant (who is an e-bay junkie) bid on some test equipment items for me. At the last minute some bozo outbid us. So it was a big waste of time. Then I said, screw this, and I picked up the phone and ordered some new equipment which ended up being of equivalent quality and about the same price as Mr. bozo paid for the used stuff. BTW, $2500 is what I think a brand new full Protel suite should cost (from Protel), not $8000, or $9000, or whatever the heck it is now. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay At 04:28 PM 1/8/2003, JaMi Smith wrote: For those that may have missed it, the going price for the P99SE at auction on ebay this morning was US $2,328.00. That's more like it! Ebay is not a great place to sell Protel licenses, not great for the seller, that it. Buyers aren't usually looking there I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). ($4500 is about 25% off of the new value, figuring $8000 less the $2000 DXP upgrade price; 25% discount is the number I've tried to maintain as a used license price. I've had discussions with Altium sales, they too would like to see that level, actually, of course, they would prefer higher :-) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:16:29 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: ..snip... BTW, $2500 is what I think a brand new full Protel suite should cost (from Protel), not $8000, or $9000, or whatever the heck it is now. Ivan, Funny how a truly open market does that to pricing, isn't it? ;-) Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
At 12:16 PM 1/9/2003, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: That was not nice of you to bid up the price if you didn't want it for yourself. You just made somebody pay more than he should have. More than he should have. What is that? I was not aware that there was any fixed standard for the resale price of Protel software I don't think it is true that my bid caused anyone to pay more than a fair price. I bid low, not high. I just thought that below $2000 was not only a steal, it might have the effect of depressing the market, as other buyers discovered that such a low price was paid. They would then wait for someone else to auction their license on ebay, and they might wait forever. There were several bidders after me, but it is true that, if I had not bid, they might have gone back and forth at a lower price. But I'd have been very happy to buy the license at the $2025 I bid. True, I'd be buying it for resale. Got a problem with that? I would only do this if I felt that the going price was way below market value, i.e., I could make, I'd expect, a profit reselling it. If you found yourself with a surplus license, I think you'd be happy to see higher resale prices! Stunts like this are why I have never bought anything by e-bay. I'd suggest rethinking the matter. Last year I had my assistant (who is an e-bay junkie) bid on some test equipment items for me. At the last minute some bozo outbid us. So it was a big waste of time. You were irritated that you were outbid, thus the bidder is a bozo. You probably know nothing else about him. He might have paid too much, but the social harm of this is counterbalanced by the benefit to the seller, who probably still did not recoup his or her cost (unless, perhaps, he or she was a reseller). And in this case he did not pay way too much, because: Then I said, screw this, and I picked up the phone and ordered some new equipment which ended up being of equivalent quality and about the same price as Mr. bozo paid for the used stuff. Yes, ebay prices are often too high, because of ignorant buyers. But they are also often too low because of a paucity of buyers for the item in question, which is a real risk when selling expensive software on ebay. Waste of time? Once one is set up to bid on ebay, it takes a minute to place a bid. You don't have to watch the bidding, which can really be a waste of time. If you know the value of a thing, bid what you are willing to pay and let ebay be your proxy. If you want to learn the value of a thing, then watching the bidding can give you some idea, but it is better to search for closed auctions as well as doing independent research, such as finding the best price you can get off-the-shelf. Buyers who watch the auctions can definitely pay too much, because they think they must win the auction Winning an auction, really, is paying a fair price, not more. BTW, $2500 is what I think a brand new full Protel suite should cost (from Protel), not $8000, or $9000, or whatever the heck it is now. Perhaps. It is now $7995; but that is for DXP. The upgrade from 99SE is $1995, so one might set a maximum value for 99SE at $6000. Actually, one could argue that 99SE is worth a little more, because one can choose when to upgrade and $1995 later costs less than $1995 now. Protel might also offer an upgrade special, though I wouldn't hold my breath. but buyers of used software still expect to get some discount. I've tried to support the price at 25% off of full price, which would suggest $4500, but wholesale pricing -- i.e., what people seem to be willing to sell the software for if they are selling to me as an erstwhile dealer, is at about 50% off. If they have to find the buyer, they could expect to get more, but then again they have to put in the effort and there are some possible complications that can arise in the transaction. I hope the buyer of the ebay license realizes that the sale should be cleared through Altium I can imagine the buyer even paying for escrow, which is then cleared when the seller can prove he received the physical package, which is worth about $100. I also hope the seller doesn't just send off the software and order Altium to transfer the license without having been paid, it could be an expensive mistake unless the buyer is known. But it will probably work out okay, most people are honest. The buyer got a tremendous deal, paying less than I have recently paid for a 99Se license. If the license includes DXP -- the listing was a tad vague and I had no time to find out more -- it was *really* a steal. If anything I bid too little, not too much. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
'Abd ul-Rahman Lomax' said: I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). I (and others may) still think that the attitude; I see someone on Ebay selling the same product that I do. It is now at a very low price, maybe lower that what I pay. I do not want anyone to get this product for this low a price because of how it may effect me and the market. I have no desire to buy this product myself right now, but I will bid a significantly higher price to prevent anyone else from getting a lower price, and if I get that price, I am willing to pay for it. ...as being quite selfish, and against the basic principal of auctions. I know that this probably happens all the time, and that there is little that can be done about it. I would also point out that if the seller engages in this kind of activity, that this is explicitly against the bidding policies, and can be reacted to quite vigorously by the auctioneer. I would also consider this behavior contrary to the free market, and could even be considered market manipulation - ala Enron, etc. Now, if you wanted to get into a typical bidding competition, this is exactly the spirit of auctions, and may have resulted is a similar or higher ending price - whether you won or not. I would recommend it may be safer not share your participation in this kind of activity in the future - regardless how benevolent or 'fair' you may consider your motivations to be. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
Mr. Lomax placed his bid and was ready to buy it at that price. Someone else was willing to pay a bit more. If I needed another license, I would have made a bid myself, possibly much higher (it went rather cheaply compared to what I paid for 3.5 and upgrades to 99se), but I don't and I didn't. That's called an auction, and I have no argument with it. Richard Sumner At 03:52 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: 'Abd ul-Rahman Lomax' said: I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). I (and others may) still think that the attitude; I see someone on Ebay selling the same product that I do. It is now at a very low price, maybe lower that what I pay. I do not want anyone to get this product for this low a price because of how it may effect me and the market. I have no desire to buy this product myself right now, but I will bid a significantly higher price to prevent anyone else from getting a lower price, and if I get that price, I am willing to pay for it. ...as being quite selfish, and against the basic principal of auctions. I know that this probably happens all the time, and that there is little that can be done about it. I would also point out that if the seller engages in this kind of activity, that this is explicitly against the bidding policies, and can be reacted to quite vigorously by the auctioneer. I would also consider this behavior contrary to the free market, and could even be considered market manipulation - ala Enron, etc. Now, if you wanted to get into a typical bidding competition, this is exactly the spirit of auctions, and may have resulted is a similar or higher ending price - whether you won or not. I would recommend it may be safer not share your participation in this kind of activity in the future - regardless how benevolent or 'fair' you may consider your motivations to be. Cheesecote Mountain CAMAC, 24 Halley Drive; Pomona, NY 10970 voice: 845 364 0211, fax: 845 362 6947, www.cmcamac.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
Abdul: More than he should have. What is that? I was not aware that there was any fixed standard for the resale price of Protel software There isn't. More than he should have in this context means the price was bid up by you because you thought it wasn't at fair value - not in any consideration of what the price should have been if the only folks bidding were ones that really wanted to buy it. It's your right to do this, and it's legal (if it's not part of a fraud scheme), but it's not nice. The buyer might have been able to buy it for a few hundred dollars less if you hadn't meddled. If I ever see you in person at a car lot, don't get angry at me if I walk up and offer to buy the car you are negotiating about for $1000 more! If you really want that car, my antics will just make it cost you more! If you are acting as a middleman or finder, I can understand tacking a markup or finder's fee onto any re-sale. But in the case of this auction, all you did was make it cost more to the buyer, without adding any value - he had already found the Protel item and was bidding on it, without your help. price. I bid low, not high. I just thought that below $2000 was not only a steal, it might have the effect of depressing the market, as other buyers discovered that such a low price was paid. They would then wait for someone else to auction their license on ebay, and they might wait forever. Maybe the market should be depressed to the point where it fits reality. Protel s/w is too expensive anyway, IMO. If someone has a real immediate need for the s/w, they can't wait forever, and will buy it from Protel at or near full price - like I did for the test equipment I needed. If not enough people buy to keep Altium afloat at that price, Altium will just have to adjust their pricing. It's called supply and demand. It's not called market manipulation. probably know nothing else about him. He might have paid too much, but the social harm of this is counterbalanced by the benefit to the seller, who Social harm? So now we are social engineers too? Hey, I dig this engineer stuff - one degree to rule them all! Oh wait, that's a law degree. Never mind... Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay At 12:16 PM 1/9/2003, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: That was not nice of you to bid up the price if you didn't want it for yourself. You just made somebody pay more than he should have. More than he should have. What is that? I was not aware that there was any fixed standard for the resale price of Protel software I don't think it is true that my bid caused anyone to pay more than a fair price. I bid low, not high. I just thought that below $2000 was not only a steal, it might have the effect of depressing the market, as other buyers discovered that such a low price was paid. They would then wait for someone else to auction their license on ebay, and they might wait forever. There were several bidders after me, but it is true that, if I had not bid, they might have gone back and forth at a lower price. But I'd have been very happy to buy the license at the $2025 I bid. True, I'd be buying it for resale. Got a problem with that? I would only do this if I felt that the going price was way below market value, i.e., I could make, I'd expect, a profit reselling it. If you found yourself with a surplus license, I think you'd be happy to see higher resale prices! Stunts like this are why I have never bought anything by e-bay. I'd suggest rethinking the matter. Last year I had my assistant (who is an e-bay junkie) bid on some test equipment items for me. At the last minute some bozo outbid us. So it was a big waste of time. You were irritated that you were outbid, thus the bidder is a bozo. You probably know nothing else about him. He might have paid too much, but the social harm of this is counterbalanced by the benefit to the seller, who probably still did not recoup his or her cost (unless, perhaps, he or she was a reseller). And in this case he did not pay way too much, because: Then I said, screw this, and I picked up the phone and ordered some new equipment which ended up being of equivalent quality and about the same price as Mr. bozo paid for the used stuff. Yes, ebay prices are often too high, because of ignorant buyers. But they are also often too low because of a paucity of buyers for the item in question, which is a real risk when selling expensive software on ebay. Waste of time? Once one is set up to bid on ebay, it takes a minute to place a bid. You don't have to watch the bidding, which can really be a waste of time. If you know the value of a thing, bid what you are willing to pay and let ebay be
[PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
For those that may have missed it, the going price for the P99SE at auction on ebay this morning was US $2,328.00. JaMi - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:35 AM Subject: [PEDA] Last chance for P99SE on Ebay Last chance to bid on 1 copy of Protel 99 SE being offered on Ebay. Auction ends at 8:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, Wed Jan 8, 2003. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=1251item=2085655314 JaMi * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
At 04:28 PM 1/8/2003, JaMi Smith wrote: For those that may have missed it, the going price for the P99SE at auction on ebay this morning was US $2,328.00. That's more like it! Ebay is not a great place to sell Protel licenses, not great for the seller, that it. Buyers aren't usually looking there I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). ($4500 is about 25% off of the new value, figuring $8000 less the $2000 DXP upgrade price; 25% discount is the number I've tried to maintain as a used license price. I've had discussions with Altium sales, they too would like to see that level, actually, of course, they would prefer higher :-) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay
Abd, Ok, that explains why the price shot up so high, I wondered if you might not be in there trying to boost the price a bit, precisely to keep the market inflated as you state below. JaMi - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay At 04:28 PM 1/8/2003, JaMi Smith wrote: For those that may have missed it, the going price for the P99SE at auction on ebay this morning was US $2,328.00. That's more like it! Ebay is not a great place to sell Protel licenses, not great for the seller, that it. Buyers aren't usually looking there I placed a bid on that license even though I'm short of cash (I bid $2025) simply because I couldn't stand to see it go for under $2,000. I'm trying to sell an extra 99SE license for $4500! (OBO). ($4500 is about 25% off of the new value, figuring $8000 less the $2000 DXP upgrade price; 25% discount is the number I've tried to maintain as a used license price. I've had discussions with Altium sales, they too would like to see that level, actually, of course, they would prefer higher :-) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
