Re: [RBW] Re: Are bikes becoming too complicated?

[Chris Halasz]

I have to wonder whether the increased cost per square area of the ever 
popular e-bike vs, say, a simple bike that most folks used to purchase for 
around town has improved the bottom line of many a bike ship. Of course, we 
also see the trend of big box bike brands buying out many a good local 
shop. 

I also have to wonder whether the increased complexity of disc-brake 
suspension e-bikes doesn't keep more bike mechanics busy, and busy with 
keeping up the high volume of technical change in the industry, whether 
electronic shifting or otherwise. 

All that said, the simplicity of the pre-electronic, pre-index shifting, 
pre-brifter configuration is so much of what appeals to me in a bike. I 
think the late Danny Kahneman and Amos Tversky identified that we humans 
prefer utility to value. Maybe that's why I like my Clem so much? 

Besides, don't we obsess enough over the simple stuff? Can't imagine the 
investment of time debating the details of a carbon electronic wonder 
gadget. Sheesh. 

- Chris 

On Friday, May 24, 2024 at 3:38:54 PM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

> I always appreciated solid designs, but definitively stepped off the train 
> in the late 90's. 
> I'd been reading GP's writings and spent a lot of time on Sheldon's site. 
> Slowly realizing that simple and dependable beat flashy and light every day 
> of the week. 
> I was riding a ton through a California El Nino winter, and the 
> combination of muddy trails and mileage had me grinding up drivetrains 
> about every month. Most of my disposable income was going to chains, 
> chainrings, and cassettes. All those shift-assisting bits and narrow/short 
> teeth just evaporated in those conditions. The only reason I switched to 
> XTR cranks was that the (ridiculously expensive) chainrings were about 3x 
> thicker than everything else. But --- ooof! -- when those had to be 
> replaced. ugh. 
> Then I came into possession of an MB1, took off all the shifty bits and 
> bought a BMX sprocket and a Surly tensioner. Those long, thick teeth on the 
> back wheel refused to grind down, and the chunky chainring worked fine no 
> matter how much grit got ground into it. 
> The penny dropped, and I embraced the simple drivetrain lifestyle. 
>
> Jim
>
> On Friday, May 24, 2024 at 10:17:33 AM UTC-7 Mathias Steiner wrote:
>
>> please please please let it be an April-Fool's joke
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 24, 2024 at 1:09:04 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> SaaS -- Shifting-as-a-Service, and "your personal power assistant." I 
>>> love it.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 10:41 AM Robert Calton  wrote:
>>>
>>>> To add an amusing, cynical thought: can you imagine 
>>>> Shifting-as-a-Service? New fully integrated wireless 5G groupsets charge 
>>>> you $10/month for 1,000 shifts and then you're stuck with a fixie. Or pony 
>>>> up $40/month for unlimited shifts and get your shifting analytics pushed 
>>>> to 
>>>> the latest Shimano E-Tube app 
>>>> <https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/e-tube/project.html>. 
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Craigslist, etc 2024

[Chris Halasz]

Nice 58cm bullmoose'd Nitto racked mustard Homer in Modesto ($2300): 

https://modesto.craigslist.org/bik/d/modesto-rivendell-homer-hilson/7748616636.html

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[RBW] Re: Sam Riders - help me pick the right size! 88 pbh

[Chris Halasz]

Michael 

One more note: I had acquaintances my size who were riding 56cm Sams, and I 
was tempted by that size as well, and I typically size up! 

On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 5:42:51 PM UTC-7 Chris Halasz wrote:

> Michael
>
> If it helps, I had a 60cm (double top tube) Sam, and sold it because I 
> thought it was just a bit big *for my* 89cm pbh. While I regret selling 
> now, I know I'd have preferred the then optional 58cm Sam. 
>
> Now that I'm riding more off-road, and appreciate the clearance, I'd 
> likely go for the 57cm size (and am so tempted to, if I wasn't just 
> finishing building a Clem L). 
>
> The new Sams are so nice. Enjoy!
>
> - Chris 
>
> On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 10:28:30 AM UTC-7 Michael wrote:
>
>> New to Rivendell bikes and looking to snag a sam; will most likely use 
>> albastache or albatross bars, possibly road but not initially.  PBH is 88 
>> and im thinking size 57. What is your experience? 
>> Thank you! 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sam Riders - help me pick the right size! 88 pbh

[Chris Halasz]

Michael

If it helps, I had a 60cm (double top tube) Sam, and sold it because I 
thought it was just a bit big *for my* 89cm pbh. While I regret selling 
now, I know I'd have preferred the then optional 58cm Sam. 

Now that I'm riding more off-road, and appreciate the clearance, I'd likely 
go for the 57cm size (and am so tempted to, if I wasn't just finishing 
building a Clem L). 

The new Sams are so nice. Enjoy!

- Chris 

On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 10:28:30 AM UTC-7 Michael wrote:

> New to Rivendell bikes and looking to snag a sam; will most likely use 
> albastache or albatross bars, possibly road but not initially.  PBH is 88 
> and im thinking size 57. What is your experience? 
> Thank you! 
>

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[RBW] Re: Sam Hillbornes Go Live Tomorrow

[Chris Halasz]

Ditto to what Jim said: sorely tempted, and I'm still doing final touch-up 
on my Clem build. 

The new Sams are as ideal an expression of a Rivendell as the Clem. And I 
love the new colors.

- Chris 

On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 9:36:50 AM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

> I have to say that I haven't looked at a bike and felt a strong impulse to 
> buy in a long time. 
>
> But both of those colors tripped the switch for me. Unique and yet wholly 
> Riv. Very fine choices. There are going to be some lucky owners looking 
> back on this day and smiling.
>
> Found myself looking at them, thinking "y'know, I don't really have a 
> swept back bar setup"
>
> Temptingtempting
>
> J
>
> On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 6:09:21 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> I like the colors coming this go-round. The Sam seems like the perfect 
>> all-rounder and I would get one had I not just bought a Roadini. Who's 
>> planning to get a Sam Hillborne?
>> Doug
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Chris Fly]

Well, between this thread and some others on other forums I've read, I see
no reason to stray away from my latex tubes in my Serotta or my butyl tubes
in my other bikes.. and, honestly, I can't see TPU riding any better than
latex.. and I don't mind pumping my tires, gives me a reason to use that
Silca pump I got for Christmas.. ;^)

Maybe I'll try the sealant in tube thing at some point if I start needing
to..

Chris

On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 7:58 AM John Dewey  wrote:

> Only one data point for sure…but I’ve had terrible ‘luck’ with TPU. And my
> last puncture occurred JRA on smooth pave and the startling thing was how
> fast the tire deflated—instantaneously. Boom gone 
>
> That’s it for me, for now anyway. Perhaps the tech will evolve and then
> I’ll try again. I’d certainly love to ride that supple with complete
> confidence.
>
> Jock
>
> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Chris Fly]

Patrick,

How is it to take a tube with sealant out of the tire after the sealant has 
fixed a hole? Do they stick to each other?

Chris 

Make a space for people to come as they are and not have to just “fit in”

> On May 11, 2024, at 2:11 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've used sealant in inner tubes since about 2013, when after years of using 
> ~utility tires (Paselas, Kojaks, Fatboys, City Slickers, Tom Slicks, Avocets) 
> and fixing >150 flats per year I tried a pair of new "open tubular" Paris 
> Roubaix and got 5 goathead flats within 10 or 15 miles. Stan's worked in my 
> 700C X 28 standard road tubes and, after a couple of years, Orange Seal 
> worked even better.
> 
> I use Orange Seal in the lightest-weight butyls I can find; notable 100 gram 
> actual 650B/559 X 1.8 Schwalbes and 70 gram actual Schwalbe 650C X 20/559X1", 
> as well as Conti 650C/559 ditto, Specialized 26X1" ditto,  and (IIRC) 
> lightweight Vittoria ditto. 
> 
> OS in tubes at 30 to 60 psi works I'd guess a metaphorical 905 or 95% as well 
> as OS in fat tubeless low pressure tires.
> 
> OS Regular Formula! OS Endurance, wonderful in fat lp tubeless tires, does 
> not work for me in road tubes at 30 to 60 psi.
> 
> The penetrants I face are almost always goatheads. I get the very occasional 
> (<1X/year for 2-3K miles across 3 bikes) larger hole that OS Regular won't 
> seal, but even those are 9 times out of 10 slow leaks and let me get home 
> before the tire goes flat (short rides, =/<30 miles). I carry 2 spare tubes, 
> either containing 2 fl oz of OS Regular or -- now prefer -- dry + 4 fl oz 
> bottle of OS Regular, and on the very rare occasions I have to stop mid ride 
> for a puncture I change the tube and repair the puncture with a Rema once 
> back home. 
> 
> You can patch tubes with sealant as long as you clean all sealant off the 
> area to be patched (I use alcohol just to be sure), then rough it, glue, and 
> patch as usual.
> 
> Stan's used to leave rubber octopuses of dried sealant in tubes after 12 or 
> 18 months; OS regular does not do that; I only add more -- 1X year or less 
> often -- when my tubes start deflating and not sealing immediately -- due, I 
> think, to many small punctures over 12-18 months that leak very small amounts 
> of sealant into the tire carcase, so that eventually there is no longer 
> enough left in the tube to do its job. This compares to replacing OS 
> Endurance every 3 or 4 months in lp tubeless tires in our dry climate; in 
> very dry hot weather ~3 months, in colder, more humid weather, ~4 months.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
> ---
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
> ---

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[RBW] Will's weekly emails?

[Chris Dresden]

I've haven't seen Will's weekly Rivendell news lately. Maybe I missed an 
update.

Chris

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell (Roadini) Geometry

[Chris Fly]

for sure.. I would guess if you can swing your arms back and have no
feeling of falling forward for a while, probably too far back.. but also,
many folks talk about feeling your feet are "reaching" when the saddle is
too far back.. I've read you can also tell by glute activation, but I'm not
that perceptive to know about that one.. ;)

On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 3:07 PM Jason Noonievut 
wrote:

> Hey Chris - I’ve watched a lot of Neill’s videos.  I can ride on the road
> and take my hands off the bars comfortably.  Here the thing, when the
> saddle is far set back, I can do this, when it’s perfect fore/aft, I can
> also do this.  When it’s too far forward yes I would fall.  So this alone
> only tells you you’re not too far forward.  That’s been my experience
> anyways.  But I always try this.
>
> This afternoon I spent adjusting the fore/aft, riding around and tweaking
> it until it felt good.  I ended up pushing it 7mm forward.  Still well
> balanced on the saddle, and pedal stroke fees better.  I then swapped the
> 70mm stem for an 80mm.  Feeling better.  Now I need a couple rides to
> confirm.
>
> Jason
>
> On Apr 28, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Chris Fly  wrote:
>
> 
> I think the one thing that fore and aft on a spreadsheet (meaning the nose
> of the saddle should be xxcm behind the saddle based on xx leg measurement)
> is how heavy you are from the waist up.. the heavier your torso and/or head
> is, the further back your saddle will probably have to be to ensure you
> aren't putting too much pressure on the hands.. of course bar height can
> mitigate some of this as well, but we all are still, effectively, a
> cantilever when we are sitting on the bike and must account for that
> balance point.. I'm at the heaviest I've ever been currently and I assume
> as I lose body mass up top (where most men carry their fat), I will be able
> to bring the saddle forward a bit (to a point, of course).. Steve Hogg and
> Neill Stanbury (bike fitters, both in Australia I believe) are big
> believers in getting riding at a moderately hard pace on a trainer (or
> outside if you are a good bike handler) and gently swinging your arms back
> behind you from the hoods (or drops depending on fitter).. if you
> immediately start to fall forward, your saddle is probably too far
> forward.. if you can maintain your torso position (you might start to fall
> after 15-30 sec, core probably plays into this as well), you are probably
> in a good position.. I assume this would work with a Brooks-type saddle as
> well, but can't confirm..  **if you are running alt bars, I don't imagine
> this is relevant..
>
> Here is Steve Hogg's take on it:
> https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes/
>
> Chris, needing to lose some fat in Sonoma County..
>
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 12:26 PM Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 8:23 PM Jay  wrote:
>>
>>> ... I measure setback on both bikes and the Fargo is coming out as
>>> saddle 5.5cm setback from BB, 7cm on the Roadini.
>>>
>>
>> There's the reason for the difference. I've always (well, since Grant
>> taught me to do this 30 years ago) started assembly and fit with saddle
>> height, setback, and angle, then, after getting the saddle in place, put
>> the bar a more or less standard distance from and height below the saddle
>> nose. I do modify  bar reach and height for bikes used off road but my body
>> position is much the same on all my bikes even if my bar is higher but
>> further forward.
>>
>> Sometimes a more reward position can be *more comfortable* because
>> it takes weight off your shoulders, etc, because when butt-back and bent
>> forward sufficiently your torso muscles carry more of the weight.
>>
>> Of course, you have to decide what a good setback is for comfort
>> (including weight off your shoulders, arms, and hands) and power and
>> handling -- also, how you'll use the bike: see below -- but in my case bb
>> setback is about the same for all my bikes.
>>
>> Peter Jon White has an excellent article on bike setup starting with
>> saddle setback: https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.php
>>
>> ... Now we get to what I think is the most important part of fitting a
>> bicycle, the fore-aft position of the saddle. Once you get this right,
>> everything else is easy. This position is determined more by how you intend
>> to use your bike than by anything else. If you look at a typical bike, the
>> saddle is behind the crank center, or bottom bracket. There's a frame tube
>> (the seat tube) running from the cranks to the saddle, and it's at an
>> angle. That angle partly determines th

Re: [RBW] Rivendell (Roadini) Geometry

[Chris Fly]

I think the one thing that fore and aft on a spreadsheet (meaning the nose
of the saddle should be xxcm behind the saddle based on xx leg measurement)
is how heavy you are from the waist up.. the heavier your torso and/or head
is, the further back your saddle will probably have to be to ensure you
aren't putting too much pressure on the hands.. of course bar height can
mitigate some of this as well, but we all are still, effectively, a
cantilever when we are sitting on the bike and must account for that
balance point.. I'm at the heaviest I've ever been currently and I assume
as I lose body mass up top (where most men carry their fat), I will be able
to bring the saddle forward a bit (to a point, of course).. Steve Hogg and
Neill Stanbury (bike fitters, both in Australia I believe) are big
believers in getting riding at a moderately hard pace on a trainer (or
outside if you are a good bike handler) and gently swinging your arms back
behind you from the hoods (or drops depending on fitter).. if you
immediately start to fall forward, your saddle is probably too far
forward.. if you can maintain your torso position (you might start to fall
after 15-30 sec, core probably plays into this as well), you are probably
in a good position.. I assume this would work with a Brooks-type saddle as
well, but can't confirm..  **if you are running alt bars, I don't imagine
this is relevant..

Here is Steve Hogg's take on it:
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes/

Chris, needing to lose some fat in Sonoma County..

On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 12:26 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 8:23 PM Jay  wrote:
>
>> ... I measure setback on both bikes and the Fargo is coming out as saddle
>> 5.5cm setback from BB, 7cm on the Roadini.
>>
>
> There's the reason for the difference. I've always (well, since Grant
> taught me to do this 30 years ago) started assembly and fit with saddle
> height, setback, and angle, then, after getting the saddle in place, put
> the bar a more or less standard distance from and height below the saddle
> nose. I do modify  bar reach and height for bikes used off road but my body
> position is much the same on all my bikes even if my bar is higher but
> further forward.
>
> Sometimes a more reward position can be *more comfortable* because
> it takes weight off your shoulders, etc, because when butt-back and bent
> forward sufficiently your torso muscles carry more of the weight.
>
> Of course, you have to decide what a good setback is for comfort
> (including weight off your shoulders, arms, and hands) and power and
> handling -- also, how you'll use the bike: see below -- but in my case bb
> setback is about the same for all my bikes.
>
> Peter Jon White has an excellent article on bike setup starting with
> saddle setback: https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.php
>
> ... Now we get to what I think is the most important part of fitting a
> bicycle, the fore-aft position of the saddle. Once you get this right,
> everything else is easy. This position is determined more by how you intend
> to use your bike than by anything else. If you look at a typical bike, the
> saddle is behind the crank center, or bottom bracket. There's a frame tube
> (the seat tube) running from the cranks to the saddle, and it's at an
> angle. That angle partly determines the fore-aft position of the saddle
> relative to the cranks and pedals. That fore-aft position determines how
> your body is balanced on the bicycle. Your balance determines how
> comfortable you are, and how efficiently you can pedal the bike.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell (Roadini) Geometry

[Chris Fly]

sorry to say you may have bought the wrong size bike (esp if you put drop 
bars on it).. the Riv sizing recommendations are, and always have been, to 
put someone on the biggest size frame they think will work from what I can 
tell.. I'm sure that works for some folks, but it doesn't work for me.. 
Rivs are bigger bike to begin with, IMHO.. 

On Sunday, April 28, 2024 at 3:43:50 AM UTC-7 Jay wrote:

> Cranks on my Riv are 172.5, 175 on the Fargo, but my road bike also has 
> 172.5 (5.5cm setback).
>
> I still have room on the rails of the Riv, just have to change my saddle 
> bag (to one without a quick release).  I’ll report back in a week or so!
>
> Jason
>
> On Apr 28, 2024, at 1:56 AM, Brenton Eastman  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Yep. 170 sugino XD2 triple on both bikes. 
>
> On Apr 27, 2024, at 9:16 PM, Jim in Mpls  wrote:
>
> Is your crank length the same on both bikes?
>
> On Saturday, April 27, 2024 at 10:01:24 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> On my Hillborne and Roadini I am running brooks B17 almost at the max fwd 
>> position. Not sure what to compare it to but both are super comfy. I also 
>> have 57cm (both bikes) but I'm 6'1"
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, April 27, 2024 at 7:23:08 PM UTC-7 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> I've been enjoying my first Riv, a Roadini, since getting it in 
>>> February.  Just one thing I feel like I'm struggling with, saddle set back.
>>>
>>> It's a size 57, I'm 5'11 and my PHB meant a 57 or 54 would work.  It 
>>> came with the setback seat post and that put me really far behind the BB 
>>> compared to my other bikes, so I got a zero offset post and that helped 
>>> things, but I'm still running my Brooks C17 pushed 3/4 of the way forward 
>>> on the rails.  Funny thing is my Salsa Fargo, which has a 73 degree ST 
>>> angle, vs. 72 on the Roadini, running the same saddle, and less set back 
>>> (also on a zero offset post).  I can feel the difference when I'm pedaling; 
>>> on the Fargo, my pedal stroke feels really good.  On the Roadini it feels 
>>> like the pedals are out in front and I'm over-using posterior chain in an 
>>> unnatural pedal stroke.  I measure setback on both bikes and the Fargo is 
>>> coming out as saddle 5.5cm setback from BB, 7cm on the Roadini.
>>>
>>> Anyone else notice this?  I may try pushing the saddle all the way 
>>> forward on the rails, then maybe set post up a bit, but wanted to ask this 
>>> question first.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/546157AB-7362-4A6D-8374-29045A6FD3EE%40gmail.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne Caliper vs Canti

[Chris Halasz]

Are all keeping in mind whether a caliper brake that accommodates wider 
tires may may introduce the inconvenience of having to deflate a tire for 
wheel removal, which may not be the case for cantilevers? 

On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 10:43:36 AM UTC-7 Nathan Mattia wrote:

> My 51 cm 650b w the Tektro side-pulls runs the 41-ish Fatty Rumpkins right 
> now. 
>
> I am curious if the Paul Racers would allow me to go bigger as well. 
>
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 11:14:36 AM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I’ve had the 48 file tread without issue. I’ve seen people run the 48 
>> knobbies on side pull Sams as well. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 8:23:48 AM UTC-7 Drew Fitchette wrote:
>>
>>> @brenton were the RH slicks or knobby?
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 9:37:12 PM UTC-4 Brenton Eastman wrote:
>>>
 Definitely would need to know your frame/wheel size. My 57cm Sam with 
 tektro side pulls and 700c Velocity Dyad hoops clears a 47 teravail, 48 
 Rene herse, and 50 gravel king. Not sure how much bigger you’d need. 

 On Saturday, April 13, 2024 at 11:36:44 PM UTC-7 
 bcu...@cullensfoods.com wrote:

> Would also love to know this exact question! Did you ever find out? 
>
> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 2:08:59 AM UTC-5 eliot...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> How much more tire and fender clearance does the Canti version have 
>> compared to say a Paul Racer side pull ? 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Chris Fly]

Steve,
roger on the rotational weight for sure.. I guess where I see TPUs falling
down compared to latex tubes is a quality latex tube is around 75-80 grams,
compared to 35-45 grams for a TPU.. so not quite double, but we're also not
talking double like 100 vs 200 here.. guess I'm just not convinced I'd
notice 40 paperclip's worth of weight when spinning up my wheels.. esp when
we are talking the larger tires that most Riv riders roll with (or even my
30mm Vittorias on my Anderson).. but, hey, I'd never begrudge someone
buying something they wanted.. ;) the other issue, as I understand it, with
TPU tubes is once you inflate them, they will always maintain that size
they are when they are inflated, meaning they don't shrink back down to the
small packed size they were out of the package.. since that is one of the
biggest perks I've seen folks tout for TPUs (smaller footprint in the
saddlebag), it seems as it that would be negated when you go to put your
TPU tube back in your kit for next time? This is what I've read/seen on
videos, so I could be wrong since I've never tried them yet.. YMMV :)

Chris in Sonoma Co

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 4:36 PM Steve  wrote:

> Fourflys, I get your' comment regarding weight savings - heck, I'm
> planning to try TPUs on my full fendered and front racked Platypus which
> tips the sales around  32 lbs. *However* - my experience has always
> been that reducing the rotational weight of the wheels/tires yields a
> noticeable  dividend in performance, especially when climbing or
> accelerating.  It's the same reason that I've long considered a primo wheel
> set to be a worthwhile upgrade.
>
> Steve in AVL
>
> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 5:23:39 PM UTC-4 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> seems like a lot of faff for a tube, esp to save a few grams on, mostly,
>> bike that are not weight weenie builds (I mean we're riding Rivs!!).. I
>> think I'll stick with latex if I want a fast rolling, lightish tube.. and
>> butyl as backup in the bar bag..
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 2:00 PM Peter Adler  wrote:
>>
>>> My hunch is that the plastic (rubber?) donut is acting as a spacer for
>>> the valve stem, so that the tube isn't rubbing directly against the
>>> often-rough edge of the valve hole. On the recommendation of otherBOBs,
>>> i've been threading a second dork nut onto my valve stems for the last few
>>> years, to push the rubber outboard at an unpatchable spot. I'd bee
>>> wondering whether the RH valve stems were threaded all the way down; sounds
>>> like they've obviated the need with the rubber donut.
>>>
>>> For general knowledge, if anyone wanted to produce a similar effect
>>> without the extra weight of a dork nut, the little rubber donuts used to
>>> keep cables from rubbing against finish look like they'd work.
>>>
>>> Peter Adler
>>> Berkeley, California
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round
>>> piece of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little
>>> collar, that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached
>>> to the tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it
>>> probably would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes
>>> - is that collar attached or flapping around?
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Chris Fly]

seems like a lot of faff for a tube, esp to save a few grams on, mostly,
bike that are not weight weenie builds (I mean we're riding Rivs!!).. I
think I'll stick with latex if I want a fast rolling, lightish tube.. and
butyl as backup in the bar bag..

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 2:00 PM Peter Adler  wrote:

> My hunch is that the plastic (rubber?) donut is acting as a spacer for the
> valve stem, so that the tube isn't rubbing directly against the often-rough
> edge of the valve hole. On the recommendation of otherBOBs, i've been
> threading a second dork nut onto my valve stems for the last few years, to
> push the rubber outboard at an unpatchable spot. I'd bee wondering whether
> the RH valve stems were threaded all the way down; sounds like they've
> obviated the need with the rubber donut.
>
> For general knowledge, if anyone wanted to produce a similar effect
> without the extra weight of a dork nut, the little rubber donuts used to
> keep cables from rubbing against finish look like they'd work.
>
> Peter Adler
> Berkeley, California
>
> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>
> Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece
> of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar,
> that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the
> tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably
> would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that
> collar attached or flapping around?
>
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> .
>


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[RBW] Re: TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Chris Fly]

Hi Ted,

I'd be curious if you came off butyl or latex tubes prior? guess I'm just 
not that convinced the TPUs are worth the extra price over latex (at least 
the price of the RH versions)..

Thanks,
Chris 

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 12:49:27 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> I just received a box of tubes that I ordered from Rene Herse, so here's 
> my 1-ride review.
>
> Bike and rider weight is about 70kg/150lbs.
>
> First impression ... they are crazy small and light. Clear plastic tubes 
> with shiny metal valve stems and "Rene Herse blue" caps - nice touch! 
> Unfolding them they seem fragile, especially the valve stem junction.
>
> I ordered some 700x20-32 and 650x45-68. I installed the 700c tubes on my 
> Waterford, which has 32mm Stampede Pass EL tires on DT TK-540 rims with 
> Velox rim tape. The rear tire is fairly new and had a bit over 500km on it. 
> It had been reinstalled a few times (March is a bad time for flats in WI!). 
> The front tire is a year old, probably has 3-4000km on it. Both tires come 
> off the rim and go back on without tire levers. The tubes are a tight fit 
> on the rim and have to be stretched a bit to get around the rim. The tires 
> popped right back on, and I inflated to 60 psi to seat the beads, then 
> backed off to 45psi. On the second wheel the tube/stem interface 
> immediately cracked and I had to grab a 3rd tube. I don't know if that was 
> a bad tube or user error. No tire lever, but it's possible I didn't push 
> the stem up into the tire enough to ensure the tube wasn't trapped by the 
> bead. Given how fragile they feel, it seems it won't take much to cause 
> that to happen.
>
> First subjective observation - I can really feel the weight reduction 
> handling the wheels. Noticeably less inertia around the perimeter.
>
> First ride was 100km of road riding across the north side of Milwaukee 
> (urban riding) through the western suburbs and exurbs to some rural roads 
> around Holy Hill. At 900m of climbing, it's a pretty hilly ride but not 
> crazy. Some of the road surfaces are beautiful, freshly paved goodness. 
> Others are, well, lunar. I often take my Breadwinner out there for its 48mm 
> tires. 
>
> Immediate second subjective observation is that the tires sound different. 
> There's a "whoosh whoosh" that sounds like nice tubulars. Third subjective 
> observation is that the bumps feel and sound different, more "thwip thwhip" 
> than "thump thump". Third subjective observation is that it FEELS like the 
> tires return more energy from deflection, whether from bumps or, 
> especially, when swerving suddenly to avoid an obstacle or making a quick 
> acceleration. I have no idea if there really is less hysteresis loss, but 
> it feels that way.
>
> No flats today, but clear dry roads, even crossing the north side of the 
> city, aren't usually an issue. 
>
> So, I very much like the lightness and the feel of them, and the light 
> blue stem caps are a nice touch that will look good on most of my bikes. 
> I'm concerned about the fragility of the valve stem interface. No data or 
> anecdotes, yet, on durability and ease of repair.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem Chainstay Ding Peer Review Request

[Chris Halasz]

Patrick, 

If Grant can ride a 64cm with an 85cm PBH 
<https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/staff-bikes/grants-64cm-clem-l-85cm-pbh>, 
you should be fine on a 59cm frame (assuming you can do so without drop 
bars). 

I'm happily on the 64cm with an 89cm PBH; I used to ride a 62cm Rivendell 
Road Standard, a 61 Bleriot, and a 60cm Bombadil. 

- Chris 

On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 2:55:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Dave. I think I might fall between sizes, between the 52 and the 
> 59 and, inclined to go small, the 52 alas is spec'd for 650B instead of my 
> preferred 700C. But perhaps a 59 would be alright as long as I don't want a 
> drop bar.* I don't know my PBH but a 60 X 56 c-c fits perfectly with 9 cm 
> stem and fistful of seatpost -- 4/3 scale Asian build with more of height 
> in torso.
>
> But if the 52 and 650B, good to know that it can take ~58s with fenders.
>
> * And my daydreams of a Clem have it built with some sort of sweepback 
> bar, but that too is a question as every bar I've used except standard 
> drops hurts my left palm.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 11:25 AM DavidP  wrote:
>
>> ... Patrick, the Clem can do tires up to 2.6 or ~2.25 fendered. The 
>> Platypus can do ~2.1-2.2"; mine's running VO 63mm fenders over those 2" 
>> GravelKings.
>>
>> -Dave
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Chris Halasz]

I see many here of the relatively long torso to short inseam chromosomal 
group recommending square frames (top tube similar to seat tube) 
geometries. I wonder if that will work for Leah. 

This never worked for my 5' 5" wife. The only non-custom dropped bar bike 
she ever fit decently on was the smallest of the Bleriots (49cm?) with 650b 
wheels to limit toe clip overlap (TCO), and that only worked with a 
maximally extended 50mm Technomic stem. 

We at one point purchased a Gunnar 50cm frame with nice short top tube. 
Upon receiving the frame, I realized it had something like a 75 degree seat 
tube, which would not work with my wife's long femurs, no matter the then 
available setback seat posts. 

So I recommend the *smallest* (i.e. shortest) sloping top tubed frame that 
will elevate the bars as much as possible, and discount threadless 
ahead-type forks and stems, allowing for plenty of elevation of the bars, 
and recommend no larger that 650b wheels and not-too-chunky (38mm max) 
tires to limit TCO. 

(I also don't recommend a cyclocross frame unless you really like standing 
over exposed top tube cables that are wiped clean by your shorts.)

Unless, Leah, you have a long torso compared to your inseam, then you may 
ignore! 

And we all are anxious to see what you end up with. Personally? I'd love to 
hear how you drop the whole pack on a custom-painted Roaduno. 

Cheers 

Chris
SB, CA

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 2:20:57 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> As someone else said, skip the scruples and just try drop bars. They're 
> *comfortable*, which is (I assert) the reason why they've been used for 
> well over 100 years. 
>
> Riders don't use drops because their bars are positioned far too low; the 
> hoods position on modern bikes is like the hooks position on "traditional" 
> road bikes. 
>
> I've not used Albastaches but I've used many, many, Moustache bars and 
> nope, not like drops. You might end up hating drops, but please try a few.
>
> Patrick "38 cm Maes Parallel road, 42 cm Maes Parallel dirt" Moore
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:07 PM Leah Peterson  wrote:
>
>> I promise not to be offended by a great wave of advice coming my way here 
>> - I have asked for it and you all have kindly delivered. 
>>
>> Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says 
>> they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands 
>> on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions? 
>>
>> Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of the 
>> bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar 
>> offers? 
>>
>> I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. 
>> It felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or 
>> shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of 
>> advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large 
>> amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.
>>
>> I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right 
>> road bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that 
>> you enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a 
>> perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up 
>> traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find 
>> with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative 
>> positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is 
>> *more* comfortable, *more* natural, *more* pleasant for energetic riding 
>> than other setups; at least, I've always found it so, and there's a reason 
>> why the traditional road bike was developed so quickly after the 
>> chain-driven safety was invented and why it has remained largely the same 
>> for going on for 150 years.
>>
>> Note: I don't say that *everyone* who rides energetically should have a 
>> road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give one 
>> a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit" like 
>> that of a custom suit or perfect tool -- offered by an intelligently spec'd 
>> and set up road bike that, you don't -- or at least, *I don't,* -- get 
>> with any other sort of bike.
>>
>> Me, based on my experience, I'd certainly start by keeping my eye out for 
>> a used Roadeo or Riv Road or LongLow or Ram or Heron. But for the final and

Re: [RBW] Re: Clem Chainstay Ding Peer Review Request

[Chris Halasz]

Patrick 


I almost, and probably should have, refrained from comparing the Clem with 
the Platypus. 


I built the 60cm Platypus with 42mm Graveling SS tires and Crust Juan 
Martin bars, front rack, often with a beloved little dog in the front 
basket rack. The Clem is a 64cm with Tosco bars, 48mm Oracle Ridge tires, 
and no racks. Surely all of that is part of the change. 


It feels a little more sure - to me - with the type of riding I’m doing 
now: a little less road, a few more rocky trails (images to follow in 
another thread). 


I’m highly visual, and while I couldn’t argue that the Platypus is the more 
objectively beautifully built frame, there’s something downright compelling 
to me about the largest Clem and the way the top and down tubes diverge at 
the steerer tube, and the way my somewhat dyslexic brain works, that 
translate to *me* finding myself more at home on this build; it feels a bit 
more like an extension of me, or maybe I just feel more sure with the Clem 
in the type of riding I’m doing now. I’ve grown more accustomed to riding 
upright, and maybe that extra inch or so of chainstay suits the riding I’m 
doing now.  


- Chris 
On Wednesday, April 17, 2024 at 10:34:35 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Good cosmetic job on the dent, and good on ya for the equanimity about the 
> slight defect.
>
> You say that the Clem "feels unique to the Platypus." I take it that you 
> mean that the Clem feels sufficiently different to the Platypus that you 
> can perceive, and appreciate, the difference. Can you describe that 
> difference? As someone who has vague hankerings after a Clem I'd be 
> interested to hear what others feel makes it "unique."
>
> Oracle Ridges: lovely tires. I recently got a 2nd wheelset for my Matthews 
> "road bike for dirt" and shod it with ORs regular casings, this to get 
> decent pavement handling and rolling with better traction, float, and 
> stability in sand than I got with the Soma Supple Vitesse SLs on the first 
> wheelset. For this bike, I believe that the ORs are the Goldilocks tire: 
> roll surprisingly well on pavement -- better than any other knobby I've 
> used, if not as well as the Somas, corner on pavement as well as the Somas, 
> and very definitely give me more float and directional control than the 
> Somas, which sink and plough. 
>
> If anyone has any Oracle Ridges for sale (Regular or Extralight; not 
> interested in Endurance) please contact me offlist.
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 5:17 PM Chris Halasz  wrote:
>
>> The Clem chain stay ding on the Clem I received, you may recall, looked 
>> like this: 
>>
>>
>> [image: Clem_Chainstay.jpeg]
>>
>>
>> And is now touched up with a heart-shaped tint and shade of pink in an 
>> homage to the Platypus lugs: 
>>
>>
>> [image: Clem_Chainstay_Painted.jpeg]
>>
>>
>> The bike is now built and was ridden a few times in the hills and along 
>> the coast, and on a couple group rides, now that the generous West Coast 
>> rains (may) have passed. The only Clem I rode previous to this was Grant’s, 
>> a couple years ago, and I’ve wanted one ever since. I thought mine would be 
>> an unnoticed change since my previous group rides. I was surprised by how 
>> much people on their e- and carbon bikes took to the Clem’s appearance: 
>>
>>
>> [image: Clem_Side.jpeg]
>>
>>
>> The 64cm Clem build includes a Brooks B68 with 60mm Toscos on a 70mm 
>> Nitto stem (that's a 90mm Nitto Pearl in the photos, but I went with the 
>> shorter option), XT hubs on Alex rims with Oracle Ridge tires, Deore 
>> brakes, no-name crank with RBW chainguard, c.1990 Jannd saddle bag that has 
>> been on many, many nice Rivendells since then, and a new Arkel ’Signature’ 
>> handlebar bag that quickly transforms into a(n over-the-) shoulder bag. I'm 
>> about an 88cm PBH, and weigh in at about twelve stone. Saddle is at about 
>> 78cm. Bars top out a little over 3" above the saddle mid-section, and I may 
>> raise the bars another quarter inch or so. 
>>
>>
>> [image: Clem_Perspective.jpeg]
>>
>>
>> I have never ridden a more comfortable bike, and the only one as 
>> comfortable, to me, is the Platypus, but the Clem feels unique to the 
>> Platy. The Oracle Ridge tires feel and appear a bit slower than a set of 
>> 35mm Contis while climbing a section of paved road, judging by who passed 
>> me at the top of the climb on their e- and carbon bikes, but a worthwhile 
>> trade for having the traction and the wider tread while off-road on rougher 
>> stuff, which is why I wanted a Clem in the first place. Cheers to Grant, 
>> Will, Mark, James, Roman, and ever

[RBW] Re: LA Craigslist bike purchase assist?

[Chris Halasz]

I did not know that "26 marathon plus scwable (sic) tires" fit a 56cm MIT 
Atlantis. 

I emailed the seller. Have not heard back. 

- Chris 

On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 9:08:59 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:

> Yeah, insanely good price. I am actually wondering if it's "hot"  
>
> - Max "caution" in A2
>
> On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 11:32:24 AM UTC-4 EGNolan wrote:
>
>> I can't help you, but I bet some locals will be all over that thing, it's 
>> a beaut and an insane price. Better be quick with your payment!
>> Eric
>> On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 11:18:11 AM UTC-4 Max S wrote:
>>
>>> Riv Folk, 
>>>
>>> Anyone could potentially assist with lobbing this to Michigan?.. 
>>>
>>>
>>> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/d/santa-monica-touring-bike-lugged-steel/7735511488.html
>>>  
>>>
>>> - Max "my RTP ship has come in?" in A2
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Chainstay Ding Peer Review Request

[Chris Halasz]

Thanks all so much for your thoughtful and generous input! The consistent 
nature of the responses was welcomed. 

The frame is a keeper, and the seller is sending a refund. The seller 
offered for the frame and fork to be returned, but that would've incurred 
losses on all sides, including my return of the parts I was receiving from 
RBW for the build. 

Off to find some primer and paint today to cover the dings, and will be 
sure to post photos of that build once complete! 

 - Chris 

On Sunday, March 31, 2024 at 4:53:02 AM UTC-7 ascpgh wrote:

> Tough scenario...
>
> I agree with Patrick, it's a new to you item damaged from when you put 
> your money  into the bike you wanted but is now different of condition. A 
> detail that kicking in your buyer's foothold includes is the seller's 
> option to refund you and take it back. I'm thinking that may not be the 
> resolution that best suits your interest in this purchase.
>
> I agree with Josiah that this is essentially a cosmetic fault at this 
> time, it's close enough to a weld that there is plenty of metal in that 
> tube's wall thickness. Being at the low end of the frame, if it was mine, 
> I'd pick the flaked paint until I reached the margin of the firmly intact 
> and execute a DYI spot refinish/repaint to protect the bare metal and ride 
> on. 
>
> Once you mount the BB and your crank, the spot of that ding and the 
> degradation to the nice Clem you found will be difficult to see. This is on 
> par with chainsuck damage occurring to folks who subsequently had no issues 
> with for many miles and years of riding.  I think you could touch up the 
> fork crown ding with adequate fill and finish to make it easily get lost in 
> the enjoyment of the riding. 
>
> I'd land in the middle and ask the seller for a little perk for the fork 
> and stay damage, dress the paint nicks appropriately, build it up and ride. 
> I don't think anyone would consider my Rambouillet's patina-ed condition in 
> comparison, it would probably rank as salvage under the 20 years' 
> "beausage" as Grant defined. I think it's next level, what I think of as 
> beausavage. Nothing structural (broken rear dropout replaced with a new 
> pair and the  brake bridge re-brazed) but definitely aesthetically 
> detrimental, and I love it still.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 2:47:17 PM UTC-4 Chris Halasz wrote:
>
>> Received a used XL Clem frame, and the removed fork separated from its 
>> packaging, and nestled into the chainstay. 
>>
>> The ding is about a third of an inch long, a quarter inch wide, and 
>> 0.023" deep. 
>>
>> Curious to know whether others have experienced similar, and whether 
>> there's consensus for repair. 
>>
>> I'll refrain from biasing the jury. 
>>
>> The interface: 
>>
>> [image: Clem_Fork_Ding.jpeg]
>>
>> Closeup of the damage. 
>>
>> [image: Clem_Chainstay.jpeg]
>>
>> Thanks all! 
>>
>> Chris 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: How do I know when a saddle fits?

[Chris Halasz]

How I know a saddle fits, triangulated: 

i. First off, the most comfortable saddle for hours-long rides is not 
*necessarily* (in fact, rarely) plush and comfortable as soon as I sit on 
it. My favorite saddles (B68 for upright, B17 Champion Special for when 
less than upright) feel just OK when I get on the bike, and my sitbones are 
in the 13cm range, and I weigh around 165lbs. Raced bikes in the 70s and 
80s; now I stop and smell the flowers. 

ii. Because it fells just OK, I'm led to think "should I be trying out that 
other saddle someone else recommended"? Then I remember I've tried just 
about every major brand out there in the past several decades, and then, 
after an hour or so, I completely forget about the saddle. 

iii. After the ride - shortly thereafter, and the next day following a 
several-hours long ride: no latent issues - no discomfort, chafing, 
whatever. Just nirvana of the nether region. 

I always give a new saddle at *least* a few weeks of riding before 
judgment. Say, a minimum dozen good rides. I keep an Allen key magnetically 
attached to the frame for quick and easy tip/tilt adjustments while on a 
ride, and experiment with extremes! My B68 tilt looks pretty much like the 
photo on the RBW site for the same saddle, maybe angled just a bit more. 

Agree with all that an objective bike fit peer review is not a bad idea. 
Hope you can find someone who understands bike fit from a not necessarily 
racy bike shop, unless it's racy you want! 

Cheers 

Chris 

On Tuesday, March 26, 2024 at 4:45:12 PM UTC-7 Wesley wrote:

> On my most comfortable saddle, I generally start noticing irritation of 
> the skin over my sit bones after about 5 hours. Obviously, that's only an 
> issue on long rides. This is a well-broken-in Brooks, but it was fairly 
> comfortable since new (I worked some flex into the sit bone areas by 
> massaging it with mink oil.) I am not expecting to ever have a saddle that 
> is painless no matter how long I ride, and I generally don't wear padded 
> shorts.
> -Wes
>
> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 1:00:24 PM UTC-7 Emily Guise wrote:
>
>> Hello folks, I come to the group with a dilemma. I've never had a saddle 
>> that I could ride for longer than 20 miles comfortably. I've always ended 
>> up with sore sit bones, numb soft tissue, or both. This has really limited 
>> my ability to go on longer trips and after my five day ride on the C 
>> canal trail last Sept, it was more apparent than ever I need to find a 
>> saddle that won't hurt. 
>>
>> I've tried dozens of saddles over the last 15 years- leather, plastic, 
>> cutouts, no cutouts, wide, medium, softer, harder, you name it. :( Most of 
>> the saddles that have stayed on my bikes for longer than a month have a 
>> central cut out, are on the wider side, and plastic. They're good for 
>> around town, but that's it. I've never had my sit bones measured. 
>>
>> It occurred to me recently that because I've never had a truly 
>> comfortable long-distance saddle, I have no idea how one feels. So I 
>> figured I'd ask the group. How did The One saddle feel for you? Did it 
>> "disappear"? Was it love at first sit? Did it need to be adjusted a lot 
>> before finding the ideal position? Is there a certain amount of miles you 
>> ride before it becomes uncomfortable? 
>>
>> I'd love to hear the group's collective wisdom so I know what to look for 
>> in the next saddle I try out. Thanks! 
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] I have questions

[Chris Halasz]

Leah

I posted a separate thread announcing the arrival of the new (at least to 
me!) and updated versions of the ubiquitous Gravelkings 
<https://www.panaracerusa.com/collections/2024-gravelkings>. 

More choices - but some look nice! 

Cheers, 

Chris 

On Tuesday, March 26, 2024 at 8:01:40 AM UTC-7 anthony@gmail.com wrote:

> Oh, man. Those wheels are gonna look ACE!!
>
> I'll chime in anecdotally that the difference between 42-48 isn't super 
> noticeable as long as you get your PSI where it feels comfy for you. Have 
> an amazing time on that 2-day ride.
>
> As for front rack security, I don't use a strap, but I also check bolt 
> tension fairly regularly. The straps are ugly, but are great for peace of 
> mind if you don't check your bolts always before getting out on a ride.
>
> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 9:21:08 AM UTC-7 J wrote:
>
>> You don't say which Gravel King model you are using, but I see in your 
>> Philly post that you have Ultradynamico Cava tires on your bike. So maybe 
>> you run the file tread GK? Anyhow, I rode through 2 sets of 700x42 Gravel 
>> King SK on my old Sam Hillbourne before moving up to 700x50 which just 
>> barely fit. I thought I'd notice a big difference but it turned out not to 
>> be true, as long as I kept the air pressure up. I only have 650b bikes now, 
>> and don't ride Gravel King SK after discovering the Rene Herse file tread 
>> much smoother and faster "feeling". I've switched back and forth from 42 
>> and 48mm RH file treads as well as 42 Gran Bois and have settled on 48mm RH 
>> (Switchback Hill) which measures quite a bit over 48mm on my wheels. The 
>> 42mm tires gave the perception that I was faster but the strava data did 
>> not corroborate, and the 48mm have so much lovely float over gravel 
>> compared to anything narrower or with tooth, I figured why bother? YMMV but 
>> I think 48s won't be an issue. If my words sway you at all towards RH, just 
>> keep in mind that they are not great in wet conditions with steep descents 
>> combined with rim brakes. I learned this twice this fall, and kept RH 
>> knobbies on until a few days ago. 
>>
>> mysterious J
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 11:42:19 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> The 60 mm Schwalbe Big Ones that used to be on my dirt road Matthews 
>>> were among the very fastest-rolling tires I've used, including various 
>>> "racing" tires and 2 extralight RH models. I'd say that the right 48 mm 
>>> tire will roll plenty fast. 
>>>
>>> I've not used any Gravel Kings.
>>>
>>> Patrick "it's not my tires that make me slow" Moore
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 7:10 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace? I have 42 on all my 
>>>> other bikes. Would 48s be slow? The ride is a 2 day event, 100 miles 
>>>> total. 
>>>> I’d like to keep the tires if I could, because they’re new and they are 
>>>> fat 
>>>> enough to also double as gravel tires, should I decide to do a gravel ride 
>>>> again. But I do more road rides than anything else, and if those 48s will 
>>>> cripple me, I’ll go back to 42s. What’s the consensus?
>>>>
>>>

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[RBW] New Gravelkings for 2024

[Chris Halasz]

Hadn't seen anything about this earlier: looks as if there's updates to the 
Gravelking 
lineup for 2024 <https://www.panaracerusa.com/collections/2024-gravelkings>
. 

The EX and the SK look different for 2024, and there's (new to me, anyway) 
an X1 variant - a little more of a straight knobby version. 

What's also new, at least to me, is a 50mm SK in that updated tread. Hoping 
to see those available from Riv. 

Cheers, 

Chris

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Re: [RBW] Ride Report--'24 Diablo Summit #3 and first big ride on RoadeoRosa

[Chris Halasz]

Great report Bill, and saw the first photos on Flickr. The bike is great, 
and looks to be sized perfectly to you. No verification yet of matching 
socks. Please correct! 

The report promotes growing suspicion that the elusive 'planing' is a 
property of a bike's fastidious brakes selection, in particular those 
requiring detailed installation, and not related to frame material, 
geometry, or construction type. 

Cheers, 

Chris 

On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 6:41:01 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> …but did it even happen if there’s no photos to show everyone?? :)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho... stem question

[Chris Kannen]

Seems to be good agreement on the clamp mismatch.

Ron replied to a query about it with "the 4 bolt will meld to the slightly
larger diameter just fine -- if not a little better than a 1 or 2 bolt."



On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 10:23 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> +1 for the Ritchey Force stems; IME they clamp bars more immovably than
> single-bolt Nitto stems possibly because of their wider clamps.
>
> And +1 for using 25.4 mm steel stems with 26.0 bars. I used to regularly
> install 26.4 ("point 4") mm Cinelli Giro d'Italias into Salsa and Tioga
> mountain bike stems with 25.4 clamps in order to get them high enough on
> low-stack mountain bikes and XO-1. I never had problems getting the bar's
> curves around the wide, square clamps, or afterward while riding the
> combination. I do think that, as I did later, Nitto Dirt Drop stems or
> customs -- I had a couple made by Salsa -- are better.
>
> And +1 for not prying wider a forged aluminum stem.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 10:11 PM iamkeith  wrote:
>
>> FWIW, from many years of doing so, I'll second the suggestion (not a
>> promise or recommendation - disclaimer and all that) that 25.4 stems CAN
>> work ok with 26.0 bars.  But the only ones Ive had scuccess with are
>> high-end steel stems with a single bolt clamp.  They tend to have thinner
>> steel that can bend and conform to the larger diameter bars.  Especially
>> the Salsa ones, but also the Ritchey Force ones being discussed here.  I
>> don't want to discourage you from trying - and it's a relatively cheap
>> experiment - but I'm less certain it'll work with a removable faceplate
>> construction.  Less of the material around the clamp circumference is
>> un-restrained and free to flex.  It might work BETTER - I just don’t know.
>> Tighten slowly and methodically, and watch to make sure that it's the steel
>> stem that gets deformed, and not the aluminum handlebar.  I know it's not
>> your current plan, but don't pry open a forged aluminum stem to fit a
>> bigger bar.  Lastly,  the safe option is still a 31.8 faceplater stem with
>> a 26.0 shim.  I get it if you want to try a 26.0 stem first though.  Just
>> please let us know how it works out.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho... stem question

[Chris Kannen]

Again, thanks much for all the replies and info. I think I'll get the 135
Faceplater. The reason for getting the Nitto Riv version instead of one of
these awesome Ritchie's is I need the extra height.

FWIW, Ron says a 25.4 clamp works with the 26.0 bar if you pry it open just
a touch to fit it in. Bit of a hack I suppose, but I'm gonna give it a shot.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 3:27 PM Brian McDermott <
brianmarkmcderm...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I went from Billies to orthos on my Appaloosa, had to go from a 120 to 130
> for the extra sweep. Finding a suitable 26.0 stem was a challenge, ended up
> with a Miyata pantographed stem from eBay.
> On Sunday, March 10, 2024 at 10:03:24 AM UTC-7 Chris K wrote:
>
>> Hey all, I've got some Ortho Bars in my cart and looking for stem advice
>> from those who use this bar. Obv there are multiple fit and frame factors
>> that play into something like this, but curious what people are generally
>> going with. Here are the options I'm deciding between:
>>
>> - Faceplater 110mm
>> - Faceplater 135mm
>> - Tallux 12cm
>>
>> Will the 110 Faceplater be too short?
>>
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[RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho... stem question

[Chris K]

Thank you all for the pics and advice! Very helpful.

I'm putting these bars on a 1985 Trek 870. As Riv says on their cardboard 
geo charts "don't obsess", but geometrically this old frame is not terribly 
far off some Riv models, setting aside, of course, bb drop and stack (1985 
Trek 870: 21.8" frame, 71º hta, 71.5º sta, 58.0 tt, 48.5 cs, 5.0 drop, 52.7 
stack, 40.6 reach).

My current set-up is Choco bars and an 8cm Dirt Drop. The height feels 
fine, just slightly above saddle height, and the reach isn't bad either but 
could be ~1" longer. I'm fairly upright but can lean in and grip forward as 
needed. I just like the idea of more width and more flare.

Are these details helpful? I'm maybe leaning toward the 135mm Faceplater 
based on your replies, but that does seem long!
On Sunday, March 10, 2024 at 5:48:02 PM UTC-6 Dan wrote:

> [image: IMG_9267.jpeg]I’ve got these bars lined up for my Appaloosa 
> build. 
> My local bike shop had a NOS Velo Orange Grand Cru stem in 120mm that 
> looks pretty perfect. It’s 26.0, and having no rise should be slightly 
> longer in reality than its length number suggests. I’m hoping that the 
> wider clamp section will help it to grip the bars well too, despite the 
> single bolt. 
>
>
> On Monday 11 March 2024 at 03:33:24 UTC+10:30 Chris K wrote:
>
>> Hey all, I've got some Ortho Bars in my cart and looking for stem advice 
>> from those who use this bar. Obv there are multiple fit and frame factors 
>> that play into something like this, but curious what people are generally 
>> going with. Here are the options I'm deciding between:
>>
>> - Faceplater 110mm
>> - Faceplater 135mm
>> - Tallux 12cm
>>
>> Will the 110 Faceplater be too short?
>>
>

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[RBW] Ron's Ortho... stem question

[Chris K]

Hey all, I've got some Ortho Bars in my cart and looking for stem advice 
from those who use this bar. Obv there are multiple fit and frame factors 
that play into something like this, but curious what people are generally 
going with. Here are the options I'm deciding between:

- Faceplater 110mm
- Faceplater 135mm
- Tallux 12cm

Will the 110 Faceplater be too short?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Chris Fly]

 how light is your Roadini?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More general question to the audience: How does the current Roadini
>>>>>> differ from the original Sam Hillborne? I owned one of the latter and it
>>>>>> would be interesting to use this Sam as a gauge for understanding the
>>>>>> Roadini.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aside: I'm thinking (just thinking; action may come but later) of
>>>>>> turning that Libertas into an on-and-offroad beater because I think it 
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> take a 38 mm tire. The original issue Sam was limited to IIRC 38 or 40 mm
>>>>>> tires so I hope that this might be a more nimble handling and lighter 
>>>>>> (and
>>>>>> beater-sh) Sam surrogate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 8:44 PM Piaw Na  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I
>>>>>>> treat my Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the 
>>>>>>> road
>>>>>>> so shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're
>>>>>>> in. But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift 
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> the lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> light as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able 
>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>> hard climbs. It hasn't disappointed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:06:45 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated
>>>>>>>> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT
>>>>>>>> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I 
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super 
>>>>>>>> nice!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple
>>>>>>>> group I have on it..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this
>>>>>>>>> sounds like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada
>>>>>>>>> that sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks 
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> I'll be visiting Montreal.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.
>>>>>>>>> For now though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so 
>>>>>>>>> I'll be
>>>>>>>>> using those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some
>>>>>>>>> handbill wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my 
>>>>>>>>> Fargo
>>>>>>>>> in the winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and 
>>>>>>>>> Tektro
>>>>>>>>> RRL brake levers, and Tektro brakes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is
>>>>>>>>> paved, but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used 
>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>> on local mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current 
>>>>>>>>> road
>>>>>>>>> bike will be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Photos to come in February.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c7c5a6a8-47f6-4e66-ba7e-73872cad2208n%40googlegroups.com
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>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patrick Moore
>>>>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other
>>>>>> writing services
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>>>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone else not a fan of the very long chainstays?

[Chris Halasz]

I'll chime in that while the very long (54cm?) chainstays on some of the 
frames introduce some storage concerns, they (the Platypus, for instance) 
ride very, very nicely. 

That said, I dislike the common (what, 41cm?) short chainstays far more 
than I dislike the extended variety. 

My chainstay sweet spot compromise may be more like 46cm, but I find myself 
drawn to even longer. 

What I haven't yet come to appreciate are large tires for road use, say, 
anything over 35mm. The longer chainstay bikes, to me, start to look 
nervous with narrower tires. I really like the looks of the Clem H, though. 

Maybe there's more learning for me to appreciate the wider, heavier, 
bouncier tread. But that's another topic. 

- Chris 
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 8:30:45 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Ian thinks "there's a heaping good portion of "I got mine" in your 
> perspective."  
>
> You are allowed to think whatever you like about me and my motives.  Are 
> you in the market for a new (to you) bike now?  What is your build concept?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 4:02:18 PM UTC-8 ian m wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 12:26:11 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> All those wanting Rivendell to re-release bikes they made 10 years ago do 
>> NOT have to turn in their Riv card, but they ARE outing themselves as PAWNS 
>> of the T IC.  Resist the pressures of the Time and Date Industrial 
>> Complex!  
>>
>>
>> BL I feel like I understand where you're coming from in this thread and 
>> largely I don't disagree with much of what you're saying but I think 
>> there's a heaping good portion of "I got mine" in your perspective. Yes, I 
>> do have whatever the reverse of FOMO is when it comes to Riv bikes (Sad I 
>> Missed Out, SIMO?). I learned about Riv circa the late aughts while working 
>> at Amoeba in Berkeley and riding my POS fixed gear bike (with Wald 808 bars 
>> and front basket) everywhere. Dreamt of virtually every model at the time, 
>> all of which were firmly out of reach with a record store employee 
>> paycheck. Had I been able to afford a couple twos threes of their bikes at 
>> the time I'd probably be hang up free about their current designs. But I 
>> think we all want what we can't have, and (for a terrible comparison) I 
>> lament plenty of other unfortunate changes like the reality of modern 
>> pickup trucks as opposed to my first two, the Datsun 720 and Toyota 22RE. 
>> Change may be constant but it's not always beneficial
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hub recommendations for Velocity Cliffhangers

[Chris Copeland]

I second all the recommendations for bitex. 

On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 11:28:27 AM UTC-8 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:

> It really just comes down to what your disposale income looks like, I 
> think.  Freehubs and endcaps are all replaceable on Bitex.  I now find DT 
> Swiss to be a happy medium (and I prefer the reliability / 
> interchangeability of the star ratchet + rebuildable nature of DT hubs).  
> But you're not getting silver.
>
> Will
>
> On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 2:19:43 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> The Bitex definitely seem to be the best bang for the buck, but I'm not 
>> crazy about the indirect implication that if you spend top dollar for White 
>> Industries, you're paying for hype, advertising, and pro sponsorships.  In 
>> my view it's mostly the economics of a medium sized Taiwanese factory vs a 
>> small boutique California machine shop.  
>>
>> On the feature side, I like the feature of being able to change freehub 
>> bodies on my White Industries hubs.  I have both SRAM XD and Shimano HG "in 
>> stock" to give myself flexibility in my stable.  Can we do that on Bitex?
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 11:08:36 AM UTC-8 Will Boericke wrote:
>>
>>> 100%.  I've built a number of wheels around them and all are still going 
>>> strong, some not in my possession anymore.  This includes several sets of 
>>> mtb hubs that are not coddled.  The only thing I've ever had to do to them 
>>> is replace bearings on a front hub.  Well, and occasionally clean and 
>>> relube the pawls.
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 1:24:19 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 I find the Analog review of the Bitex hub to be very accurate. They are 
 very close to the WI hubs at a small fraction of the cost. Amazing at 
 quality and price but with zero hyper around them.

 On Monday, March 4, 2024 at 11:43:54 AM UTC-5 gril...@gmail.com wrote:

> My Appaloosa is being built up with a Bitex rear touring hub. 
> Wheels are being built up this week - I'll report back once they (and 
> the bike) are ready!
>
> On Sunday 3 March 2024 at 09:56:15 UTC+10:30 Josh C wrote:
>
>> I'd recommend a set of white industries hubs if you are looking for 
>> something more high-end. Smoothest hubs I've seen. 
>>
>> On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 6:04:12 PM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>
>>> I second Deore LX! I had those front & rear until I laced up a front 
>>> wheel with a Kasai FS dynamo hub.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 2:11:58 PM UTC-8 aeroperf wrote:
>>>
 I like the Deore LX trekking equipment.  A rear hub would be 
 FH-T670.
 Quiet and bulletproof.  I’ve laced them to Velocity Atlas and 
 Velocity Dyads.
 For a front hub, I tend to use Shimano 105s because they are 
 reliable and reasonably cheap.



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[RBW] Re: FS: Roadini 50CM

[Chris Fly]

I have to assume it's this 
one: 
https://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/bik/d/el-cajon-rivendell-radini-50cm/7719401355.html

On Saturday, February 24, 2024 at 12:00:44 PM UTC-8 Dorothy C wrote:

> What color?
>
> On Saturday, February 24, 2024 at 8:48:20 AM UTC-8 James B wrote:
>
>> I recently purchased this Roadini but due to circumstances of life, I 
>> must pare down my fleet.  $1800 for local pickup in the San Diego area.  I 
>> am willing to ship but buyer will be responsible for shipping. 
>> 50 cm frame  PBH range of 77-83
>> 9 cm Nitto stem
>> 46cm Nitto bars
>> Silver 2 shifters
>> Nitto Seatpost
>> Shimano Nexave Rear Derailleur
>> Microshift Front Derailleur
>> Velocity RIms laced to Shimano 105 hubs 32 hole
>> Panaracer 700x38 Gravelkings
>> Tektro R559 Brakes
>> Silver 2 crankset
>> Berthound Aravis Saddle (ti Rails)
>> The bike is in perfect condition with 0 scratches. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB 50cm Roadini

[Chris Fly]

Thanks, I'll check it out!

I wonder if this is anyone on here?

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 7:15 AM Doug H.  wrote:

> Here is one on craigslist...
> https://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/bik/d/el-cajon-rivendell-radini-50cm/7719401355.html
> Doug
>
> On Friday, February 23, 2024 at 10:06:09 PM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hey all, still searching for a 50cm Roadini.. I know I can still get a
>> new frameset, but hoping to get in with a bit cheaper route.. frameset or
>> complete..
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
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[RBW] WTB 50cm Roadini

[Chris Fly]

Hey all, still searching for a 50cm Roadini.. I know I can still get a new 
frameset, but hoping to get in with a bit cheaper route.. frameset or 
complete.. 

Thanks!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Chris Fly]

Agree with Patrick on the seat setback, you don’t want to futz with that once it’s set where you need it based on only the saddle and not the reach.. And the Specialized bars are nice, I run those on two of my non-Riv bikes.. Ritchey also makes the Ergomax bars that are similar to the Spec. bars, but have a bit of backsweep that could help bring the hoods a little bit closer.. Chris Make a space for people to come as they are and not have to just “fit in”On Feb 10, 2024, at 11:27 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:Ethan: Two suggestions:1. Don't use saddle adjustment to adjust your bar. Get your saddle where it should be for greatest comfort and pedaling efficiency -- saddle height and setback in relation to the bottom bracket or crank axle is where I start my setup -- and then determine from saddle position where your bar should be, and choose stem and bar to suit.2. For the ultimate in shortness and shallowness in a drop bar (narrowness too, it seems), take a look at the Specialized Hover bar: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001It's ugly but it has essentially no ramps because the reach is so short and it has a very shallow drop with a 15 mm rise at the stem clamp. I used one of these on my erstwhile Medium 2012 Monocog (gave it to a friend) to get a drop bar more or less comfortable on a frame with (by my road standard) an immensely too long top tube (59.6 cm versus my preferred 56 or 57 cm). I tried it with several stems (expensive even with generic MVS or whatever they were stems), going from 17* 9 cm to 30 or 35* 7 cm. Still a wee bit far but much, much better. I went thru this bar and stem contortion because even a Hover bar (mine was 44 cm) a cm or 2 too far away was better than any non-drop bar I could find.On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:...  I already have the seat forward on the rails, btw. I will swap the stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next  would be  handlebars, going shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like I shouldn't be afraid of going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm Noodle, which feels wide in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the Breezer, I went with shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of those changes helped a lot.



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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Chris Fly]

not sure I'd call the Noodles short reach with a 92mm (per Riv site) 
reach.. maybe shorter than some older school bars, but current bar design 
has much shorter reaches.. the Salsa Cowbells I use on my Homer have a 
reach of 68mm and drops of 115mm.. the Noodles have a much deeper drop at 
140mm that, for me, is far to deep to really be useful.. but everyone has 
their own preferences.. the other bars I like are the Ritchey Butano bars 
that have a 73mm reach and 115mm drops.. 

Chris in Sonoma County 

On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 5:48:02 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

> Ethan
>
> I suggest you measure your AHH and Breezer as I suggested.  This will give 
> you a good idea of how much each change on the AHH goes to meeting the 
> distance you have on the Breezer.  Your Noddle bars are already short 
> reach, 96mm comes to mind changing bars may not give you much.   
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:
>
>> Hi all, thank you so much for the replies. To answer some questions and 
>> provide additional info: 
>> Joe you are correct: 55 Cheviot, 54.5 Homer. I had thought about getting 
>> a purple Apaloosa when they went on sale last year, but after talking to 
>> Rivendell, realized that the Homer was a better fit for my use case. Once I 
>> saw they were offering the butternut/mustard/classic Datsun color, I was 
>> in. 
>>
>>  It's tough picking a size without getting a chance to try the bikes 
>> first, so I utilized the PBH sizing Riv recommends--but I do think the 
>> frame is a bit large, all things considered. Standover does work for me, so 
>> I'm hopeful I can get it to work.  I already have the seat forward on the 
>> rails, btw. I will swap the stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next 
>>  would be  handlebars, going shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like 
>> I shouldn't be afraid of going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm 
>> Noodle, which feels wide in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the 
>> Breezer, I went with shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of 
>> those changes helped a lot. . Oh, and Chris, thanks for reminding me about 
>> handlebar diameter. I forgot about the different standards. I think between 
>> bar and stem, I can make it work for me. This bike is beautiful (way more 
>> than my pic), and I put a lot of thought into the build. In retrospect, I 
>> would have gotten the bike fit first, with the Breezer, to get all the #s I 
>> need. 
>>
>> Also, thank you Liz for the detailed fit info and the suggestion 
>> regarding quill/threadless adapters for the bike fit. I was wondering how 
>> that would work.
>>
>> --Eitan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:21:47 AM UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed, I used to run a 30mm extension (w)right stem from Analog Cycles 
>>> paired with a short reach SimWorks Co-Misirlou Bar on my 61 Toyo AHH. I 
>>> think a shorter 5cm or even 30mm extension stem will do the trick if you're 
>>> set on dropbars 
>>> Max 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 11:18:41 AM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> so I have a first gen Homer with drop bars and I totally get your point 
>>>> on reach, they do seem to be long bikes.. at least with drop bars fitted. 
>>>> Plus, I firmly believe the Riv folks tend to skew to putting folks a bike 
>>>> one size too large for them (at least in my experience).. 
>>>>
>>>> What I did was get the Velo Orange quill stem with removable faceplate. 
>>>> This stem allows you to use 31.8 bars (or smaller with shims) and opens up 
>>>> a TON more bar options than a traditional quill stem with the smaller 
>>>> diameters. I'm currently using Salsa Cowbell bars as they have a shorter 
>>>> reach and shorter drop that I MUCH prefer over something like a Noodle.. 
>>>> another point is the wider the bars, the longer the reach will feel.. 
>>>>
>>>> Chris in Sonoma County
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 7:31:28 AM UTC-8 ian m wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If the standover height is acceptable, then I would argue the larger 
>>>>> frame is going to lead to a better fit. I have a hard time with just the 
>>>>> raw data which is why I like using bike insights. Comparing the 54.5 and 
>>>>> 51 
>>>>> Homers, we can see a few important points: the stack is much higher 
>>>>> meaning 
>>>>&g

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Chris Fly]

so I have a first gen Homer with drop bars and I totally get your point on 
reach, they do seem to be long bikes.. at least with drop bars fitted. 
Plus, I firmly believe the Riv folks tend to skew to putting folks a bike 
one size too large for them (at least in my experience).. 

What I did was get the Velo Orange quill stem with removable faceplate. 
This stem allows you to use 31.8 bars (or smaller with shims) and opens up 
a TON more bar options than a traditional quill stem with the smaller 
diameters. I'm currently using Salsa Cowbell bars as they have a shorter 
reach and shorter drop that I MUCH prefer over something like a Noodle.. 
another point is the wider the bars, the longer the reach will feel.. 

Chris in Sonoma County

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 7:31:28 AM UTC-8 ian m wrote:

> If the standover height is acceptable, then I would argue the larger frame 
> is going to lead to a better fit. I have a hard time with just the raw data 
> which is why I like using bike insights. Comparing the 54.5 and 51 Homers, 
> we can see a few important points: the stack is much higher meaning the 
> bars are already starting higher. Even with an effective top tube increase 
> of 15mm, the reach is only 1mm more on the 54.5. Easily mitigated with a 
> stem. Seat is going to land on the same axis with either size, so fit 
> should be very similar with less seatpost and stem showing. 
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:20:54 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I don't know your frame sizes so I'll do some wild guessing based on 
>> photos: I believe you have a 55cm Cheviot and a 54.5 Homer. If this is 
>> accurate the effective toptube numbers should be about the same and you're 
>> happy with the pullback bars on the Chev. Conclusion: the Homer may be a 
>> bit big for you, which is why the reach to drops is too long. I agree with 
>> Riv that a 7cm stem should help but I'm concerned that you'll still find 
>> the Homer kinda big-ish. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard, who fits a 55 Chev with pullbacks and would need a 51 Homer 
>> for drops 
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:34:08 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> What are the sizes of your Riv frames? 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I used 
>>>> to bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently gotten 
>>>> back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional bike 
>>>> fit 
>>>> sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended and 
>>>> reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck bike 
>>>> "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
>>>> with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics per 
>>>> se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  day-long 
>>>> rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
>>>> adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
>>>> comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. 
>>>> I 
>>>> was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I am 
>>>> thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have about 
>>>> a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here are a few thoughts:
>>>>>
>>>>> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long 
>>>>> time with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so 
>>>>> they 
>>>>> can know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for 
>>>>> them. 
>>>>>  It sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is 
>>>>> that 
>>>>> a reasonable assumption?
>>>>>
>>>>> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves 
>>>>> are usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
>>>>> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you 
>>>>> had 
>>>>> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  
>>>>>
>>>>> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you 
>

Re: [RBW] Re: ISO 54 cm Roadini

[Chris Fly]

HI Doug,

I would really reconsider Will's advice.. In my experience, Riv bikes ride 
big.. the Bleriot Grant put me on back in the day always felt too large and 
the AHH I got from my Dad doesn't feel any too large (with drop bars) for 
me.. I say that as it should have been sized for my Dad and he was a good 
2" shorter than me.. at 5'9" (31" PBH and 68cm seat height normally), I 
wouldn't consider anything larger than a 50cm and I don't think that will 
feel small by any means.. 

BTW- anyone have a 50cm Roadini they want to move on? :) 

Chris 

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 6:05:25 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

> Will from Rivendell would recommend a 50 for you as he did for me. I'm 
> 5'10" (almost) with an 83 PBH. My saddle height is 71.5 cm. But, I'm still 
> thinking I would prefer a 54.
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:21:17 PM UTC-5 Judd Levy wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the link, I saw that one as well, unfortunately too big.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 1, 2024 at 4:51:21 PM UTC-5 Lucky wrote:
>>
>>> I was just thinking I had seen one recently but it’s a 57. Nonetheless 
>>> here’s the link:
>>>
>>> [image: 418748400_7019085838173016_3719984432333502610_n.jpg]
>>>
>>> Rivendell Leo Roadini 
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/947484313436277/?mibextid=HHaHfI>
>>> facebook.com 
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/947484313436277/?mibextid=HHaHfI>
>>>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/947484313436277/?mibextid=HHaHfI>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 1, 2024, at 13:30, Doug H.  wrote:
>>>
>>> Judd,
>>>
>>> I was in the same boat recently, actually still am. Can I ask what your 
>>> height and PBH is for reference?
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 1, 2024 at 4:20:19 PM UTC-5 Judd Levy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello fine folks 
>>>>
>>>> I am looking for a 54cm Roadini, no preferences for year or color. 
>>>>  Prefer complete but open to frame as well, thanks.
>>>>
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/85738bba-a399-45e7-8a1b-ac5fbf7646bcn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Why baskets and front bags instead of rear panniers or perfect Rivendell saddlebags?

[Chris Halasz]

A hack I now use that may be obvious to others on this list for unexpected 
pop-up bike storage, such as for stopping for one small item at the store 
and walking out with five or six items: 

I stow a thin, light, nylon musette-type bag stuffed inside a small bar or 
saddle bag. That way the musette is expandable, and once removed from the 
small bar or saddle bag, I've got that cavity available to fill as well. 

More and more I try to carry less and less on longer rides, and longer 
rides for me typically include a half hour ascent from the front door. I 
don't typically use a rack any longer, or even a large bag front or rear. 
Fortunate to live within walking distance of many nice grocery stores. 

- Chris 

On Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 11:35:08 AM UTC-8 velomann wrote:

> I've done quite a bit of self-supported touring over the years, mostly 
> solo, and I pretty quickly transitioned away from using a rear rack and 
> rear panniers as soon as I started riding a low-trail 650b bike (my Ocean 
> Air Cycles Rambler, RIP). I don't imagine I'll ever go back now. Both of my 
> overnight touring bikes (Bantam Adventure bike and Bantam disc tourer) are 
> designed for - and handle superbly with - most of the baggage weight 
> forward. On the tourer I use an Acorn rando bag and front lowrider panniers 
> (Swift Short stack), with either a Swift Zeitgeist or Carradice Nelson 
> Longflap saddlebag. this set-up equalizes the fore/aft weight distribution 
> and I can easily ride no-hands fully loaded.
>
> For my Adventurebike, I don't use any panniers. I can fit everything I 
> need in the front Fabio's Chest (sits on a custom front rack) and a Jack 
> Supply Slugger mounted as a saddlebag 
> https://www.jacksupplyco.com/shop/p/yolbwkp5ijyayzoys6p6rtzbhm1ws2
>
> But I've got 5 other bikes set up for front load carrying as well. My Riv 
> Hillborne, My Univega Via Carrisma (converted to Singlespeed) and my 89 
> Rock hopper all have Wald 137 baskets, with either an Outershell Basket Bag 
> or a Swift Sugarloaf. The Hillborne also  has a Swift Zeitgeist saddlebag.
>
> Another possibility for front loading that I HIGHLY recommend is the Jack 
> The Bike Rack from Wholegrain Cycles https://wholegraincycles.com/
> I got in on the 2-for-1 Kickstarter, and have one mounted on my fixie and 
> the other on my beater Diamondback Apex, and they are fantastic. I just use 
> the straps to mount a big tote bag, but they work just as well for a Wald 
> 137, or strapping on firewood, or whatever you want to carry.
>
> Mike M
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 1, 2024 at 2:14:32 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I'm curious why so many Rivendell-listers prefer baskets to rear 
>> saddlebags or panniers -- saddlebags in particular because Rivendell has 
>> perfected the rear saddlebag -- I've owned a dozen at least of Riv 
>> saddlebags over the years as well as probably 2 dozen Carradices and Acorns 
>> and what have you's -- currently have a late-model Rivendell 9 liter or so 
>> saddlebag that replaced an already very nice 9 liter Carradice Junior, and 
>> it is slightly more practical and much more nicely built and prettier (main 
>> reason I got it) than the Junior.
>>
>> I've tried front and rear baskets, in the rear single rack-mounted 
>> baskets and pannier baskets, in front as large as the Wald Newsboy; and 
>> I've tried huge porteur front racks; but none, rear and especially front, 
>> at least on medium trail frames, allowed the sort of straight-stable, 
>> quick-cornering handling I like -- I sold my old Herse because it didn't 
>> handle as I liked ("like" defined by my Rivendell Roads) with either 
>> sizable rear or front loads.
>>
>> But for real, practical carrying -- groceries, errand loads, commuting -- 
>> I've gone back over and over again to a light rack and panniers; just so 
>> much more capacious and versatile, IME. I've carried 50 lb with aplomb in 
>> thinwall, normal-gauge frames, all in the rear (not ideal but on at least 1 
>> old frame very doable) or, better, 35 rear 15 front (current Matthews IGH 
>> Riv Road clone).
>>
>> I can see light front loads for very long rides where you want to be able 
>> to easily get at the bag's contents, and I am open to being convinced that 
>> very heavy loads (50 lb of newspapers) do better on very sturdy, low-trail 
>> fork-mounted front platforms, but for ordinary Everyman riding on 
>> non-low-trail Rivendells?
>>
>> 49 lb:
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> Longboard:
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbi

Re: [RBW] Re: Why baskets and front bags instead of rear panniers or perfect Rivendell saddlebags?

[Chris Halasz]

I concur with Patrick's assessment for his criteria. 

Popping off and on a set of Ortliebs is so quick and clean, and they carry 
so much, and roll up so nicely, and the handy shoulder straps make them 
great for shopping, farmer's market or otherwise. 

As for weight, our little ten-pound Dorkie loved a bike ride, and while she 
preferred the front basket, when we transition her basket to the rear rack, 
the stability (she loved to move around, especially side-to-side on 
corners) improvement was significant. 

Cheers

Chris

On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 7:02:44 AM UTC-8 Shoji Takahashi wrote:

> I, too, have tried many iterations. My go-to for my commute is saddlesack 
> and front basket. I can fit almost all my stuff in the saddlesack. The 
> front basket is for taking off my jacket or occasional stops to the library 
> or grocery. 
>
> When I've ridden in and stopped at a place where I'm not sure about bike 
> safety, the saddlesack is a bummer, though. Panniers are good for that 
> use... The saddlesack is so large and out of the way if one's not worried 
> about it getting stolen.
>
> Shoji
> arlington MA
>
> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 8:57:07 AM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I think a bike looks and feels incredibly unbalanced with just two big 
>> stuffed rear panniers. Like many here have stated, the super noodly 
>> rear-end just isn't desirable. And, if you're carrying so much stuff that 
>> you're filling two big panniers, why not balance the load a bit more and 
>> carry some gear up front? Like Samwise Gamgee says, "share the load".
>>
>> -Brian
>> Lex KY 
>>
>> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 7:54:54 AM UTC-5 Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>>> If we're comparing front loads, poppers and ribs
>>>
>>> [image: wVRl7xH.jpg] [image: 4MaD0iL.jpg]
>>> [image: hws6znn.jpg] [image: Sn20Bp4.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 12:15:37 AM UTC-6 kiziria...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Best is both worlds! A 137 up front with either my swift sugarloaf or 
>>>> shopsack and 1 or 2 panniers in the rear. About all one could ask for with 
>>>> nearly all day-long commuting or utilitarian purposes. I scored the most 
>>>> recent version of an Ortlieb Vario off eBay. That has been the ultimate 
>>>> solution. As much as I despise the hyper-engineered materials and 
>>>> manufacturing processes, they have come up with a design so good that it 
>>>> has reduced my resistance to some rides previously (needing a backpack, 
>>>> but 
>>>> not wanting to carry one, and not wanting to put it awkwardly in a basket, 
>>>> or another pannier). I've gotten it down to maybe 3-5 seconds to switch 
>>>> between pannier and backpack. What seals the deal, is that it holds weight 
>>>> *exceptionally 
>>>> well* as a backpack and is very comfortable, which I think no other 
>>>> convertible backpack/panniers previously do very well. I use it every day 
>>>> and carry significant weight of a mobile office into a co-working space. 
>>>> Even if I paid full price, the value is very much there for me. 
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, February 1, 2024 at 7:51:20 PM UTC-8 ack...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There's no right or wrong way to carry your gear. Front baskets and 
>>>>> bags are convenient for quick-grab city use. I also prefer the way bikes 
>>>>> handle with front weight. A lot of us can't stand that tail-wiggle that 
>>>>> comes from overloaded rear panniers. I know that I would rather do a 
>>>>> Costco 
>>>>> run or carry my cornhole boards on a front rack with bungee cords. I have 
>>>>> tried it all and I will never ride with rear saddlebags again unless I'm 
>>>>> on 
>>>>> a long tour and my my handlebar-mounted Large Fabios's Chest, Swift 
>>>>> Industries Jr. Ranger Panniers attached to my Pass and Stow rack, Rogue 
>>>>> Panda Frame bag and BagsXBird Goldback medium saddlesack don't provide 
>>>>> enough storage space for me. 
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems like the OP is quite attached to rear panniers because it 
>>>>> suits his personal riding style. From the tone of the responses to some 
>>>>> of 
>>>>> the replies, OP is looking for either validation or to be convinced that 
>>>>> there is a BETTER way to ride/load. But bikes are so deeply personal. 
>>>>> That's why we ride and tinker and co

Re: [RBW] Re: Ride Report - Santa Monica to Santa Barbara Century

[Chris Halasz]

Keith 

Did you return the same day? 

There is a small contingent of Rivbike cyclists in Santa Barbara. 

May have to organize a ride someday so folks can experience a Mountain 
Drive ride. 

- Chris 

On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 6:42:18 AM UTC-8 SallyG wrote:

> Wonderful story! Love your writing:)
>
> On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 6:04 AM ian m  wrote:
>
>> Lovely looking ride. Many years ago I lived in Ventura and commuted to 
>> SB, I still regularly think about how beautiful that stretch of the 101 was.
>>
>> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 1:05:50 AM UTC-5 kiziria...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Congrats! Love seeing people knocking out centuries with swept back 
>>> bars. Looking forward to seeing what I can do on my Platypus (almost done 
>>> building!). There is the LA Rivendell ride planned on the 17th, come by! 
>>>
>>> Armand
>>> Also in Santa Monica
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 1, 2024 at 9:30:41 PM UTC-8 Keith P. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Part 2:
>>>>
>>>> 50 miles turned into 60, and 60 inched toward 70, and I knew if I got 
>>>> to 80 I'd be too close to 100 to stop.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It was hoot. I felt good. Tired but not exhausted. Sore, but with none 
>>>> of the chaffing and agony I thought I might expect.
>>>>
>>>> More a matter of not stopping than pushing through a wall.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_3390.jpg]
>>>>
>>>> I was also surprised by how much of the distance was covered on 
>>>> dedicated bike paths along the way. They were numerous and well isolated 
>>>> for long stretches, and when they were non existent, they were most often 
>>>> connected by a frontage road.
>>>>
>>>> I ate some bugs. I ate some almond croissants.
>>>>
>>>> The coast gave way to foothills just before dropping down into Santa 
>>>> Barbara, and just as the mini van pulled up behind me. I sent them on 
>>>> ahead 
>>>> to meet up with me after the last 8 miles of the ride.
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_3364.jpg]
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_3393.jpg]
>>>>
>>>> (That's 103 not 3)
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_3408.jpg]
>>>>
>>>> Here I am, proud of myself. I don't think I expected to go the full 
>>>> distance really.
>>>>
>>>> Always feels good to accomplish something new.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_3435.GIF]
>>>>
>>>> The cheering crowds were of course overwhelming.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No flats or slow leaks on the Snoqualmie Passes.
>>>>
>>>> The Hillborne preformed like the absolute champ we know it to be.
>>>>
>>>> I have insoles in my vans, but could feel how a stiffer soled shoe 
>>>> would help on long trips like this one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Overall a fantastic Southern California ride.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Keith Paugh
>>>>
>>>> Los Angeles, CA
>>>> On Thursday, February 1, 2024 at 9:26:56 PM UTC-8 Keith P. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 1.27.24
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps excepting an invitation to a Century ride was overly 
>>>>> optimistic. I haven’t ridden more than 35 miles at once in recent memory 
>>>>> - 
>>>>> Maybe the proposition should have given me pause, but a foolhardy 
>>>>> challenge 
>>>>> is just what we need to feel slightly nervous about from time to time.
>>>>>
>>>>> The plan was to ride from our homes here in Los Angeles to Santa 
>>>>> Barbara on a route exactly 100 miles away. A “Pier to Pier” ride, from 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> Santa Monica Ferris Wheel to Stearns Wharf on the other end.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hugging the coast, we would follow a “mostly” flat course, with about 
>>>>> 2,900 ft of elevation gain over the entire distance. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Not without any climbing, but predominantly gradual climbing, of 
>>>>> short, and rolling hills along the Pacific Coast Highway.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was fun to think about what food to bring for an average of 200 - 
>>>>> 300 calories per hour of riding. 
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried out Tailwind, a hydration drink mix "with ele

Re: [RBW] SPD pedal recomendation

[Chris Matta]

I recently got a set of MKS Solution pedals, big platform on one side., spd
clips on the other. They're nicely weighted, so you can easily pick the
side you want. I got mine from blue lug:
https://global.bluelug.com/mks-solution-pedal-siver.html

C h r i s


On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:13 PM Bernard Duhon 
wrote:

> I am in the hunt for a set of dual sided SPD pedals.
> I'm going flat on my touring bike but there is too much total overlap on
> one of my bikes to do anything but a clip .
> I have been riding the old  Onza elastomer SPD's.
>
> any suggestions?
>
> Benard
>
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Mainstream press article pushing steel bike?

[Chris Halasz]

I overheard that a big box bike brand is entertaining introducing a small 
tubed steel road bike. 

The concept would be in response to those desiring to segregate themselves 
from cyclists on very high end e-bikes that nearly camouflage the motor and 
battery within their respective carbon frame, which are similar in shape 
with many common high-end carbon fiber bikes. 

Not sure why that market sector wouldn't just be going retro with some nice 
steel European Bowlachili frame from the 80s. Maybe they need compact 
geometry and internal cables and the latest in derailer and gravel 
accommodations? 

Maybe they just buy a Roadeo? I'd love an Albatross-equipped Roadeo. 

- Chris 
On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 7:07:07 PM UTC-8 cz...@sonic.net wrote:

> I think Eben Weiss is mainstream. He's owned and ridden carbon bikes. And 
> he rides a lot. I think "mainstream" in the context of cylcing encompasses 
> a broad spectrum from racer wanna-be's to parents with kids in trailers or 
> child seats to people carrying heavy loads on all kinds of bikes.
>
> I don't think of myself as mainstream because I have never and will never 
> consider riding carbon. Not that I'm a snob - just that I prefer my steel 
> bikes.
>
> Regards,
>
> Corwin
>
> On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 6:41:31 PM UTC-8 ttoshi wrote:
>
>> My favorite quote:
>>
>> Unless you spend more time carrying your bike than riding it, a slight 
>> weight reduction is utterly meaningless, and foregoing a nice steel bike 
>> because the carbon one is lighter is like choosing a single $50 bill over 
>> twenty $5 bills because the fifty is easier to fit in your wallet.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 12:13 PM Piaw Na(藍俊彪)  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/opinion/theres-no-good-reason-to-buy-a-carbon-bike/?fbclid=IwAR2uIwBwz29AqiFhiVs5TTjdXw2HDNApUOMVh51foKzayEp1u_vB5UMltqU
>>>
>>> Never thought I'd see this.
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[Chris Halasz]

I've owned many B17 saddles, and there is variability, and in my 
experience, less variability in the Special than in the Standard. So if you 
don't like the B17 you try, it may just be you don't like *that* particular 
B17. 

I've always thought that Brooks should do a little pressure test mid-way on 
the saddle to address the variability in the leather. In my experience, 
some seem made for more robust torsos, and some for much less. I regret 
selling a just right one to a very nice person here in town, but am more 
pleased to know how well it suits him. 

For starters, I always adjust a B17 to nose up by a tip of the thumb 
thickness at the back from level. That gets me good enough. 

If further micro-adjustment is needed, I have a small round magnet that Riv 
provided with my Hobson Zingo (is that right?) Allen key that remains on 
the bike's head tube and then temporarily set my 4 or 5mm key handy and 
(ideally) have a seat post with a fore and aft screw for the adjustment. 

I recall an old video of Eddy Merckx micro adjusting his saddle height 
while out on a ride. Makes me feel just like Eddy. 

- Chris 

On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 9:26:36 AM UTC-8 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> I believe that it all depends on your riding posture in the angle of which 
> your pelvis and your seat bones rest on the saddle. See attachment diagram. 
>
> It is a personal choice and preference as much as one's bum is different 
> from the next person's. 
>
> I ride in an upright riding position my Clem with my B66S saddle's nose 
> titled up slightly. I wear padded cycling shorts. 
>
> Kim Hetzel
>
> On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 7:28:13 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I was going to speak along similar lines, perhaps not as forthrightly. 
>> But I found angle more critical on Brookses for some reason than on any 
>> other saddle, including other leather makes.
>>
>> After trying several B 17s, a B 17N, a Champion Flyer, and a Pro, the one 
>> Brooks that I found comfortable *(very* comfortable except for tilt 
>> adjustment) was the Pro -- the others chafed or pressed or obtruded. I 
>> positioned the Pro tilted slightly up on a bike with drop bar below saddle. 
>> But I could never get the tilt just right, and I had a rather nice seatpost 
>> with separate angle adjustment bolt that allowed stepless adjustment. With 
>> the slippery surface I was either sliding forward onto the bar or feeling 
>> pressure, and after I had commuted on it for 18 or 24 months or so I went 
>> back to original issue Flites which I now have on all my bikes.
>>
>> I almost never ride in padded shorts and the lined shorts I occasionally 
>> use have very thin chamoises or (1 pair) a very thin synthetic layer just 
>> to prevent seam chafing -- I *hate* thick pads. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 6:04 AM Eric Daume  wrote:
>>
>>> My technique for dialing in a Brooks:
>>>
>>> 1. Loosen seat post bolt
>>> 2. Remove Brooks saddle
>>> 3. Replace with any other plastic saddle I happen to have nearby
>>> 4. Enjoy the better comfort, less slipperiness, lighter weight, and zero 
>>> maintenance.
>>>
>>> YMMV :)
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: B17 alternatives

[Chris Halasz]

I've enjoyed many a B17 Champion Special, and a few not, and only a few B17 
standards. 

NOTE: I'm six foot tall, 165lbs, with a 13cm sit bone width. I run a few 
times a week and do a couple of 25 mile rides each week, and shorter rides 
for errands, etc. Long way of saying I'm not real wide and there's not much 
mass on me. 

I've also got an Ideale Daniel Rebour in my stash, which is said to have 
superior water resistance. Never tried the water resistance, though. It is 
also very nice. 

I never had good luck with the Berthouds. Like sitting on granite. Hard 
hard hard. No break-in. Tried three different ones. Gave up. Ditto for the 
Brooks C67 (the Cambium version of the B68). The C67 also had a very wide 
nose, which did not work for me - I guess I've got developed adductors or 
something. 

 I recently bought an LHT and have a more Albatross/Tosco-type upright 
position on the bike. I tried a bunch of Brooks and Specialized and Ergon 
saddles, all 155+mm width. 

There is one that I settled on, that is really fantastic for me: The Ergon 
Mountain SMC in a women's medium/large. I think it's about 160mm at its 
widest, and weighs 300g, so maybe a half pound lighter than a B17, and to 
me,  just as nice. It was about $70. There's a picture on the Rivbike site 
with what I think is the same saddle on Roman's Sequoia: 

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/romans-59cm-sequoia-86-5cm-pbh

A note about saddle width: leather saddles have those beautiful rivets. The 
rivets, for me, reduce the functional width of a saddle. Here's a photo of 
a 155mm saddle mated to a 220mm wide saddle. Their 65mm difference is 
minimized by the rivets, and their functional width is similar: 

[image: IMG_0051.jpg]

Both those saddles (Brooks B68 and Ergon SR3-L) are available for purchase 
if anyone's interested! 

- Chris 

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 8:55:33 PM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have a B17 on my Sam that I love. 12 years old and showing very little 
> wear. It's the last thing I think about on all-day rides.
>
> I bought a pre owned "broken in" C17 for my Roadini build and I think I'll 
> pass it along. Just feels like it will never be comfortable.
>
> Anyone here have other saddles they enjoy? Maybe something lighter weight 
> and/or more modern looking, while still having all day comfort.
>
> If not I'll just get another B17 and be content!
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Chris Fly]

I can see that.. 

Looking forward to the build! 

Chris

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 3:04:04 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> I hear you 'fourflys', I was undecided before going with the DT and the 
> RRSL levers.  My Fargo has brifters and on the mixed-surface, often 
> technical trails I ride, it's very handy.  My road bike has brifters.  I 
> decided I wanted to try something different, plus I like the idea of them 
> being friction, and the simplicity of them (oh, and the lower cost, as I 
> didn't have brifters on hand, like I did other parts).  I had DT shifters 
> on a bike I built up around 10 years ago and liked them.  This bike will 
> mainly be ridden on paved roads, and occasional gravel roads and rail 
> trails (80/20), so I'm sure it will be fine.  But once I ride it, we'll see 
> how I adjust.
>
> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 5:06:45 PM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
>> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
>> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't 
>> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 
>>
>> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I 
>> have on it.. 
>>
>> Chris 
>>
>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
>>> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>>>
>>> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
>>> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
>>> be visiting Montreal.
>>>
>>> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
>>> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
>>> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
>>> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
>>> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake 
>>> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>>>
>>> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, 
>>> but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local 
>>> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
>>> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>>>
>>> Photos to come in February.  
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Chris Fly]

Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't 
even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 

I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I 
have on it.. 

Chris 

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>
> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
> be visiting Montreal.
>
> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake 
> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>
> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, but 
> there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local 
> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>
> Photos to come in February.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Leo Roadini on Brevet--SFR Del Puerto Canyon 200k ride report

[Chris Fly]

Bill,

Thank for the concise, informative replies! I really mean that.. and do get 
what you mean, for the most part.. I have my Dad's AHH I inherited that, I 
think, comes in around 25# (typical 2010ish RIV build) and it certainly 
doesn't ride heavy.. 

I can get totally wrapped around the axle on the perception of weight for 
sure.. :) Appreciate the grounding truth! 

Chris 

On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 10:29:02 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> "what I don't want is a bike that feels "heavy" or "sluggish" when being 
> ridden.. I think we all know what that means"
>
> I think this is where I'm the outlier because I *don't* know what that 
> means.  Or, to be more specific, what I think that means is something 
> different from what other people mean.  The way I always express it is that 
> all my bikes go faster when I pedal harder.  I always pedal as hard as I 
> want to go and the bike goes as fast as it does.  I do know what it means 
> to ride a crappy bike, but there are crappy 20 pound bikes and great 35 
> pound bikes.  I don't think there is anything objectively connecting bike 
> weight to sluggishness, but A LOT of people do, and it seems you may be one 
> of those normal people.  I'm the abnormal one.  Maybe what "normal" people 
> mean is that they insist on riding up HILL X at precisely 12 MPH, and a 
> "sluggish" bike requires you to pedal harder to get to objectively 12MPH? 
>  Maybe "normal" people are all on club-rides and just want to keep up with 
> the speedy group?  I am neither of those people.  
>
> Being really specific about it, on these group boards, there was a poster 
> who claimed he can tell how full his water bottles are just by how fast his 
> bike goes up a hill.  I cannot tell how full my water bottles are by riding 
> my bike up a hill.  Two full water bottles is four pounds.  I would say the 
> majority of cyclists claim there's a massive difference between a 17 pound 
> bike and a 21 pound bike.  I agree there's a difference, but I don't think 
> it's massive.  That;s what makes me a weirdo.  There are posters here who 
> may refer to a 24 pound road bike as "a tank".  I'm not one of them.  I 
> hate picking up my 30+ pound bikes, but I don't hate riding them.  I'm sure 
> my sub 20 pound bikes go a hair faster, but I still pedal in the gear that 
> I feel like pedaling in.  In no circumstances am I under some deadline 
> where I have to average 18.75MPH or I get fired.  
>
> One other way normal people justify their "need" for a light bike is using 
> language like "it's just more fun to throw the bike around".  Even Jan 
> Heine uses language like this.  I think I know what "throwing the bike 
> around" is, and I agree that if doing that was something I did a lot, I 
> guess I'd develop more of a taste for very very light bikes, but the fact 
> is that I don't "throw the bike around" all that much.  I love doing weight 
> weenie builds, but the evaluation of the lightness happens on the scale, 
> not on the road.  It's fun to shave a pound of unnecessary weight off a 
> build, full stop.  I can't feel the difference.  Others claim they can, and 
> I can't prove them wrong.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 9:28:25 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> fair enough, I can see why you got that from what I had put in my initial 
>> inquiry.. 
>>
>> I'm certainly NOT looking for a race bike, I already have a couple of 
>> those kind of bikes, if that is what I'm looking for.. what I don't want is 
>> a bike that feels "heavy" or "sluggish" when being ridden.. I think we all 
>> know what that means.. of course, much of that can often be attributed to 
>> heavy wheels/tires, but a 35# bike HAS to feel heavier than 21# bike to 
>> ride, either accelerating from a stop or on a 5% extended climb.. (using 
>> these weight numbers just to illustrate a point)
>>
>> But back to my search for info- yes I like Rivs, every since around 
>> 2008.. yes, I want a bike that will take a larger tire.. and yes, I would 
>> like the bike to not feel like a pig when I ride it. I generally like to 
>> have my bars at or even a bit above my saddle, so a Riv certainly ticks 
>> that box normally. 
>>
>> Appreciate it! 
>> Chris 
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 9:14:23 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> fourflys wanted feedback on maybe buying a Leo.  
>>>
>>> My general impression of your search for info is that you want it to be 
>>> a racing bike that takes wide tires.  That's not what the Leo Roadini 

[RBW] Re: Leo Roadini on Brevet--SFR Del Puerto Canyon 200k ride report

[Chris Fly]

makes sense! and I totally get what you mean.. while I certainly wear "kit" 
when riding.. my days of wearing stuff that has logos all over it are 
mostly gone.. I do have a couple of classic Salsa jerseys I still like to 
wear.. and i also have some more MTBish stuff for those days when I want to 
be a bit more "under the radar".. :) 

thanks Bill! 

On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 9:23:44 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

"A big part of my "presence" on this board is to counterpoint the 
contrarians."

...and what I mean by that is that there are a number of people who 
badmouth the Leo because they bought it, thinking it was a racing bike, 
wanted it to be a racing bike, and then got mad that it isn't a racing 
bike.  It's totally fine to not like a bike, but it's a little lame to say 
that a row boat is crap because it isn't a motor boat.  

Anyway, some of the voices badmouthing the Leo for not being a race bike 
went so far as to claim that the Leo couldn't be ridden fast.  Those 
threads that you read were my reports that even though the Leo is not a 
racing bike, it still can be ridden fast.  That period, 2017 - 2019 was 
when I was in my best racing shape, because I was coaching a high school 
racing team.  That anecdote comes up a lot.  "It doesn't matter which bike 
that pro rides, because at that level it's the rider".  Several "voices" on 
these boards sort of anticipate that by claiming "I need ultralight tubing 
because I'm so weak and slow, I need all the help I can get", etc.  In 
those threads you read, I was trying to make clear that you can get a lot 
out of a Leo Roadini if you want to.  

I think the best summary was that I felt a little weird in full-kit on my 
Leo.  I felt a little weird NOT being in full kit on my Black Mountain. 
 That's what I mean by "traditional racing bike" vs "evolved road bike". 

Bill Lindsay

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[RBW] Re: Leo Roadini on Brevet--SFR Del Puerto Canyon 200k ride report

[Chris Fly]

fair enough, I can see why you got that from what I had put in my initial 
inquiry.. 

I'm certainly NOT looking for a race bike, I already have a couple of those 
kind of bikes, if that is what I'm looking for.. what I don't want is a 
bike that feels "heavy" or "sluggish" when being ridden.. I think we all 
know what that means.. of course, much of that can often be attributed to 
heavy wheels/tires, but a 35# bike HAS to feel heavier than 21# bike to 
ride, either accelerating from a stop or on a 5% extended climb.. (using 
these weight numbers just to illustrate a point)

But back to my search for info- yes I like Rivs, every since around 2008.. 
yes, I want a bike that will take a larger tire.. and yes, I would like the 
bike to not feel like a pig when I ride it. I generally like to have my 
bars at or even a bit above my saddle, so a Riv certainly ticks that box 
normally. 

Appreciate it! 
Chris 

On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 9:14:23 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> fourflys wanted feedback on maybe buying a Leo.  
>
> My general impression of your search for info is that you want it to be a 
> racing bike that takes wide tires.  That's not what the Leo Roadini is, in 
> my opinion.  The Leo Roadini is an evolved road bike.  It seemed to me you 
> want a traditional or mainstream road bike, just one that takes wide tires 
> and maybe says Rivendell on it.  In other words, you want a Roadeo, which 
> is a lot more of a traditional or mainstream road racing bike that takes 
> wide-ish tires.  
>
> A big part of my "presence" on this board is to counterpoint the 
> contrarians.  
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 8:27:44 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> edit to my above reply- just read through Bill's post when he initially 
>> built up Leo.. good stuff and good comparisons.. 
>>
>> Thanks! 
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 8:10:08 AM UTC-8 Chris Fly wrote:
>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> Good Stuff! I had pretty much written a Leo off as I really couldn't 
>>> find much feedback on it to be honest.. I got a few replies to my question, 
>>> but not a lot.. your report has it back on my radar! 
>>>
>>> Having been a big supporter of the Black Mountain Cycles brand and 
>>> having had a V1 Road and MC, I'd be curious how you would compare the BMC 
>>> Road and your Leo (in drop bar mode)? 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 7:18:17 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>>> I posted a photo of the drop bar build that I had on that bike in 2018. 
>>>>  This thread links to that thread, and in that thread I posted a photo. 
>>>>  You should be able to find it. It doesn't look like I made a Flickr album 
>>>> for that build so the detailed build photos are buried. 
>>>>
>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 3:06:34 PM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Got a pic of your setup? I'm building a roadini at the moment and love 
>>>>> seeing others' builds. Would love to see it in it's brevet mode if it has 
>>>>> multiple modes.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 7:32:05 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yesterday was the Del Puerto Canyon 200k brevet, hosted by San 
>>>>>> Francisco Randonneurs. Luckily for me the day remained conflict-free and 
>>>>>> I 
>>>>>> was able to do it.  It was the 26th RUSA event of my career of 200k or 
>>>>>> greater, and I logged my best time ever: 8 hours 18 minutes.  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I woke up a little earlier than I needed to, at 4:45AM.  I was able 
>>>>>> to pack light because of the amazing weather forecast.  The Del Puerto 
>>>>>> Canyon 200k starts and finishes in Pleasanton, CA, just south of Mount 
>>>>>> Diablo.  The ride goes out and over the hills that make up the Altamont 
>>>>>> Pass,meanders through the flat farm roads around Tracy and Wesley, and 
>>>>>> then 
>>>>>> returns out and over the same hills via Del Puerto Canyon.  The forecast 
>>>>>> called for temps in the low 50s to start and venturing into the high 70s 
>>>>>> in 
>>>>>> some places.  So I wore bib-shorts, a light base layer, short sleeve 
>>>>>> jersey, arm warmers and a reflective v

[RBW] Re: Leo Roadini on Brevet--SFR Del Puerto Canyon 200k ride report

[Chris Fly]

edit to my above reply- just read through Bill's post when he initially 
built up Leo.. good stuff and good comparisons.. 

Thanks! 

On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 8:10:08 AM UTC-8 Chris Fly wrote:

> Bill,
>
> Good Stuff! I had pretty much written a Leo off as I really couldn't find 
> much feedback on it to be honest.. I got a few replies to my question, but 
> not a lot.. your report has it back on my radar! 
>
> Having been a big supporter of the Black Mountain Cycles brand and having 
> had a V1 Road and MC, I'd be curious how you would compare the BMC Road and 
> your Leo (in drop bar mode)? 
>
> Thanks,
> Chris 
>
> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 7:18:17 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I posted a photo of the drop bar build that I had on that bike in 2018. 
>>  This thread links to that thread, and in that thread I posted a photo. 
>>  You should be able to find it. It doesn't look like I made a Flickr album 
>> for that build so the detailed build photos are buried. 
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 3:06:34 PM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Got a pic of your setup? I'm building a roadini at the moment and love 
>>> seeing others' builds. Would love to see it in it's brevet mode if it has 
>>> multiple modes.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 7:32:05 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yesterday was the Del Puerto Canyon 200k brevet, hosted by San 
>>>> Francisco Randonneurs. Luckily for me the day remained conflict-free and I 
>>>> was able to do it.  It was the 26th RUSA event of my career of 200k or 
>>>> greater, and I logged my best time ever: 8 hours 18 minutes.  
>>>>
>>>> I woke up a little earlier than I needed to, at 4:45AM.  I was able to 
>>>> pack light because of the amazing weather forecast.  The Del Puerto Canyon 
>>>> 200k starts and finishes in Pleasanton, CA, just south of Mount Diablo.  
>>>> The ride goes out and over the hills that make up the Altamont 
>>>> Pass,meanders through the flat farm roads around Tracy and Wesley, and 
>>>> then 
>>>> returns out and over the same hills via Del Puerto Canyon.  The forecast 
>>>> called for temps in the low 50s to start and venturing into the high 70s 
>>>> in 
>>>> some places.  So I wore bib-shorts, a light base layer, short sleeve 
>>>> jersey, arm warmers and a reflective vest.  The ride started at 8AM, which 
>>>> would be light enough to not require any lighting.  Sunset would come at 
>>>> about 6PM, so I did bring lights just in case I went over 10 hours.  I 
>>>> carried a little Cygolite Dart (from Riv), a battery taillight, and two 
>>>> elastic head lamps that could serve as backup head or tail lights. I also 
>>>> carried a USB battery stick in case I needed to boost my phone, Wahoo, or 
>>>> headlight.  In my Ruthworks rackless Brevet bag went those lighting bits, 
>>>> a 
>>>> few bars, and a travel size sunscreen for when the armwarmers came off and 
>>>> the guns came out.  I made coffee and breakfast, got lubed up and dressed 
>>>> and I was a good 25 minutes ahead of schedule.  I had planned to catch the 
>>>> 6:20AM Bart train, and it's a 5-minute bomb down the hill to get to the 
>>>> Bart station.  I went ahead and decided to grab the 6:00AM train instead 
>>>> and left early, and still had to wait on the platform for several minutes. 
>>>>  
>>>> The Fremont Train takes me down past Oakland to the transfer station at 
>>>> Bay 
>>>> Fair, where I transfer to a Pleasanton train to head over the hills in 
>>>> Castro Valley out to the start. There was a delay due to track repair, and 
>>>> a chilly wait for my Pleasanton train, but I was still at the start with 
>>>> my 
>>>> card in plenty of time.  
>>>>
>>>> The turnout for this event was huge; the biggest ever for this event 
>>>> which was first run in 2011.  ~150 randos had signed up, partially because 
>>>> of the great weather forecast, partially because there is always an uptick 
>>>> in participation the year before a PBP year, and partially because this is 
>>>> SFRs flattest 200k, with "only" 5300 ft of climbing. It was a huge bunch 
>>>> that started off. I didn't want to get sucked up with any of the 'too 
>>>> fast' 
>>>> groups, so I looked for fami

[RBW] Re: Leo Roadini on Brevet--SFR Del Puerto Canyon 200k ride report

[Chris Fly]

Bill,

Good Stuff! I had pretty much written a Leo off as I really couldn't find 
much feedback on it to be honest.. I got a few replies to my question, but 
not a lot.. your report has it back on my radar! 

Having been a big supporter of the Black Mountain Cycles brand and having 
had a V1 Road and MC, I'd be curious how you would compare the BMC Road and 
your Leo (in drop bar mode)? 

Thanks,
Chris 

On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 7:18:17 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I posted a photo of the drop bar build that I had on that bike in 2018. 
>  This thread links to that thread, and in that thread I posted a photo. 
>  You should be able to find it. It doesn't look like I made a Flickr album 
> for that build so the detailed build photos are buried. 
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 3:06:34 PM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Got a pic of your setup? I'm building a roadini at the moment and love 
>> seeing others' builds. Would love to see it in it's brevet mode if it has 
>> multiple modes.
>>
>> On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 7:32:05 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Yesterday was the Del Puerto Canyon 200k brevet, hosted by San Francisco 
>>> Randonneurs. Luckily for me the day remained conflict-free and I was able 
>>> to do it.  It was the 26th RUSA event of my career of 200k or greater, and 
>>> I logged my best time ever: 8 hours 18 minutes.  
>>>
>>> I woke up a little earlier than I needed to, at 4:45AM.  I was able to 
>>> pack light because of the amazing weather forecast.  The Del Puerto Canyon 
>>> 200k starts and finishes in Pleasanton, CA, just south of Mount Diablo.  
>>> The ride goes out and over the hills that make up the Altamont 
>>> Pass,meanders through the flat farm roads around Tracy and Wesley, and then 
>>> returns out and over the same hills via Del Puerto Canyon.  The forecast 
>>> called for temps in the low 50s to start and venturing into the high 70s in 
>>> some places.  So I wore bib-shorts, a light base layer, short sleeve 
>>> jersey, arm warmers and a reflective vest.  The ride started at 8AM, which 
>>> would be light enough to not require any lighting.  Sunset would come at 
>>> about 6PM, so I did bring lights just in case I went over 10 hours.  I 
>>> carried a little Cygolite Dart (from Riv), a battery taillight, and two 
>>> elastic head lamps that could serve as backup head or tail lights. I also 
>>> carried a USB battery stick in case I needed to boost my phone, Wahoo, or 
>>> headlight.  In my Ruthworks rackless Brevet bag went those lighting bits, a 
>>> few bars, and a travel size sunscreen for when the armwarmers came off and 
>>> the guns came out.  I made coffee and breakfast, got lubed up and dressed 
>>> and I was a good 25 minutes ahead of schedule.  I had planned to catch the 
>>> 6:20AM Bart train, and it's a 5-minute bomb down the hill to get to the 
>>> Bart station.  I went ahead and decided to grab the 6:00AM train instead 
>>> and left early, and still had to wait on the platform for several minutes.  
>>> The Fremont Train takes me down past Oakland to the transfer station at Bay 
>>> Fair, where I transfer to a Pleasanton train to head over the hills in 
>>> Castro Valley out to the start. There was a delay due to track repair, and 
>>> a chilly wait for my Pleasanton train, but I was still at the start with my 
>>> card in plenty of time.  
>>>
>>> The turnout for this event was huge; the biggest ever for this event 
>>> which was first run in 2011.  ~150 randos had signed up, partially because 
>>> of the great weather forecast, partially because there is always an uptick 
>>> in participation the year before a PBP year, and partially because this is 
>>> SFRs flattest 200k, with "only" 5300 ft of climbing. It was a huge bunch 
>>> that started off. I didn't want to get sucked up with any of the 'too fast' 
>>> groups, so I looked for familiar SFR riders who I knew were in my time-zone 
>>> and hung with them for the first ~15 miles through the urban streets of 
>>> Pleasanton and Livermore before the first climb began. That first climb was 
>>> around 1200ft, with a gradually increasing grade all along its length, 
>>> topping off at around 10% at the peak. This did a good job of stretching 
>>> out the riders, and there was essentially no traffic so it was a great time 
>>> to move up. I was feeling good, so I left the familiar group behind and 
>>> passed a lot of slower riders. I was aimi

Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Chris Fly]

if you just look at the numbers, you can go down a long rabbit hole and 
certainly justify a heavy bike.. I agree 1mph isn't anything.. what you 
can't justify with numbers is what a heavy bike *feels* like when riding.. 
some heavier bikes certainly can "ride light", but many don't in my 
experience.. same with heavier wheels or tires, my 650b Hilsen with 
Rich-built wheels and 42mm Compass tires do NOT feel like they spin up as 
well as my Serotta with HED Belgium tires with 28mm Vittoria Corsas on it.. 

I would never begrudge someone riding what they want to ride, but often, 
heavy is just that.. heavy..

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 4:49:18 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

> During a appearance on The Opiniated Cyclist, Richard Schwinn stated the 
> following:  Reducing the bike weight by 12 lbm, increases your speed by 1 
> mph, given the same power input from testing Schwinn did.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:11:36 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> 
>> It will always have a dyno hub. I just can’t give up that kind of 
>> practicality. I didn’t know Paul components would save me any weight but 
>> I’m glad if they do. My Velo Orange levers were pretty feather-light 
>> already though. 
>>
>> I probably do have the Platy set up as light as I dare, save the 
>> drivetrain stuff from White Industries. And Richard has a good point that 
>> all that money would only save me a third of a pound.
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2024, at 8:40 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>
>> Does the raspberry Platy still have a dyno hub? If so that would be a 
>> big gain as far as weight loss and lessening drag. Otherwise you have it 
>> set up fairly light from what I remember about your posts. Paul components 
>> will sure help shave some grams.
>>
>>
>> When weight is brought up the first thing Grant would say is take weight 
>> off the engine. Well I just took a massive amount of weight off the engine 
>> so I feel that I am now free and clear to be a weight weenie about the 
>> bike. :)
>>
>> -- 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/eReNb9qsX94/unsubscribe
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fd92245f-6eec-4430-b9c2-c4f2996b8b8bn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Chris Fly]

I think weight matters and one of the main reasons I LOVE looking at the 
Riv site and Riv bikes. but currently only own my Dad's AHH that was given 
to me when he passed.. I would never quibble over a couple pounds here or 
there, but reading through this thread and seeing the OP's 
frame/fork/wheels weigh 18# (if I read it correctly) is insane to me.. I 
fully believe a 15# weight difference WILL make a fairly big difference on 
a ride, esp one with hills.. at least for how I like to ride. I got my 
first Riv back in 2008ish and Grant certainly wasn't worrying about weight 
then as my Bleriot I had was certainly overbuilt for sure, but it wasn't 
too crazy.. 

Anyway, I'm certain I'm the outlier here in my thinking and that's ok, I 
still love looking at the classic Rivs and enjoy riding my Dad's AHH. 

Chris in Sonoma County 

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 7:49:52 AM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Which circles back to original post. Having disassembled my Silver crank I 
> have a new appreciation for it. It’s quite beautifully manufactured and now 
> lighter thanks to the aluminum chainring. White Industries square taper 
> crank in comparison is also beautiful & MUSA. But, complete with chainrings 
> weighs 624 grams & cost $521.00. Silver crank complete with chainguard 
> weighs 781 grams & cost $280.00. So for your extra $241.00 you save 157 
> grams or .346 lb.
> At the end of the day (kind of hate that phrase, not sure why?) as Riv 
> owners our frames are heavy especially in my case (Clem & Gus) as are our 
> wheels particularly if you are running larger tires & dynamo hubs. That 
> leaves the remainder of the components where any marginal gains are 
> expensive.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 14, 2024, at 9:09 AM, Sarah Carlson  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Leah,  now you will probably chime in with me and Joe on the conversations 
> when we discuss how a crank can also be beautiful. Because once you 
> recognize it you won't be able to unsee it!
>
> Sarah
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 4:04:25 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> You guys are going to make me want to fall down the rabbit hole again and 
>> find little ways to lighten up my raspberry Platypus. And I have now just 
>> practically sent an invitation for people to tell me that weight doesn’t 
>> matter and I should think about the engine (me) and so on  but not even 
>> they can discourage me! I can have one bike to be irrational about.
>>
>> I did do a version of this of the Formerly Mine Clem. I got aluminum bars 
>> and new wheels and tires, got rid of the basket rack and it did make a 
>> difference. I was riding that thing for all purposes, including for fast 
>> exercise kind of rides. Dumb, but whatever. 
>>
>> I don’t know about this White Industries stuff but I suppose I’ll go read 
>> about them now.
>> Thanks a lot you guys. Yikes.
>> Leah
>>
>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:13:09 AM UTC-5 brendonoid wrote:
>>
>>> This thread made me finally weigh my 59cm Susie and it came in 15.9kg. 
>>> which is more than I thought tbh. It would be 17kg normally I guess but 
>>> currently doesn't have front rack and basket.
>>> There are a lot of places I could save weight I suppose. I have straight 
>>> guage spokes, and b17 flyer, dyno with rear light. The R14 weighs over 
>>> 800grams, the old M565 LX hub is hefty...
>>> Oh dear...
>>>
>> -- 
>
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>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/69b71767-24b3-4479-8016-25db4c3769e5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

Hi Maggie,

I sent you an email with some questions. 

Thanks!
Chris 

On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 4:27:19 PM UTC-8 Maggie Zhou wrote:

> I have contemplated selling my 50cm roadini that has a modern brifter 
> build (all Shimano 105). It's the first production batch circa 2017, so 
> only has spacing for ~35s, and I've personally never succeeding at running 
> larger than 28s with fenders + 105 mid reach brakes. It kinda sounds like 
> this wouldn't fit your desires anyway, since you want to run wider tires. 
> Email me directly if you want to talk? I haven't really thought about 
> pricing...it has felt a little extravagant to sell to just turn around and 
> buy a new Roadini for the wider tires.
>
>  I don't keep good track of my rides, but I have at least 10k miles on it. 
> It's a great bike, and I can't imagine wanting anything different if I 
> wanted a fast steel road bike. 
> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 1:22:36 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Oh shoot, I didn't realize the Crust was 650b in smaller sizes. Velo 
>> Orange Rando frameset <https://velo-orange.com/products/rando-frameset> 
>> is the only other production road frame that comes to mind, but I haven't 
>> read/heard much about it's ride quality. The modular dropouts are a really 
>> neat idea though. 
>>
>> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 11:32:26 AM UTC-6 eddietheflay wrote:
>>
>>> As I wrote earlier and it looks like Ron is going in this direction:
>>>
>>> " I'd like to see a Columbus Spirit tubed frameset just like the 
>>> Malocchio with tigs, slanted top tube, threaded fork, and a nice powder 
>>> coat at a reasonable price. Kinda like a BMW 2002 from the olden days." I'd 
>>> want threaded fork cuz I need the rise offered by long quill stems.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:27:46 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A Riv may not be the bike for me this time.. I'm also considering a 
>>>> Litespeed Arenberg (the new one, seems like some good numbers) or maybe 
>>>> even splash out on a custom Fitz or Sycip here in Sonoma County.. 
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:23:21 AM UTC-8 Chris Fly wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> the issue with the Crust for me is the three smallest sizes seem to be 
>>>>> 650b and I don't really want a 650b bike.. plus the brake thing might bug 
>>>>> me if I did want to run larger tires in the future.. thanks Eddie! 
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:38:49 PM UTC-8 eddietheflay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have the same brakes front and rear and there is no issue with 35mm 
>>>>>> tires. The OP wants a quick road bike so he'd  be fine too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:21:46 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the 
>>>>>>> manufacturing so it takes different brakes front and rear which is 
>>>>>>> bizarre. 
>>>>>>> Even more bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> front. Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then 
>>>>>>> do 
>>>>>>> the repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of 
>>>>>>> my 
>>>>>>> mind and cause me not to enjoy the bike.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent 
>>>>>>>> clearance. Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that 
>>>>>>>> most 
>>>>>>>> Rivs are and without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put 
>>>>>>>> some 
>>>>>>>> blocks on my pedals and you could try it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one 
>>>>>>>>> reason you like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't 
>>>>>>>>> fit in 
>>>>>>>>> my tr

Re: [RBW] Advantages of triple drivetrains (VO post)

[Chris Halasz]

I'm planning on going from 3x to 1x on my all-around Tosco'd LHT. Maybe 
even do that today, and replace the big ring with the Rivendell chainring 
guard. 

I haven't used the 48 in a long, long time. As for the 26 inner: there was 
a t-shirt from the 80s from a bike shop in Ketchum that read, "if you ain't 
hikin', you ain't mountain bikin'". If it gets that low, I appreciate the 
change in blood circulation by just walking those few minutes. 

- Chris

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 12:30:47 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
NJ wrote:

> Bill L stated:   " If it were me, I'd experiment with a 42-tooth big ring 
> before going to a triple"
>
> Question to Bill:   Will a 42T large ring result in the FD hitting the 
> chain stay in the inner ring of a triple (say 24T or 26T) ???
>
> PS  I agree with your comment on the 46-11 being a very high gear.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 3:21:33 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Ben
>>
>> You run a 46/30 with an 11-34 11sp cassette.  If it were me, I'd 
>> experiment with a 42-tooth big ring before going to a triple.  46x11 is 
>> pretty darn high for a commuter/city bike.  Anything higher than a 4:1 in 
>> my book is for the sole purpose of pedaling at >>40mph.  That is a real 
>> use-case in hilly areas, but not for me, and especially not for a 
>> commuter/city bike.  That's just a suggestion.  The jump from 42 to 30 is 
>> much less dramatic.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 11:25:39 AM UTC-8 bunny...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been kind of triple-curious again. I live in a hilly part of L.A. 
>>> My commuter/city bike has an 11-34 11s with a 46/30 front. I've been 
>>> finding the 46 to 30 jump to feel pretty large. It feels much more dramatic 
>>> than 50-34. For instance, if I switch big to small in the from, I'll sift 
>>> down at least 3 cogs on the back to totally avoid spinning out immediately. 
>>> I sometimes find myself mildly cross chaining in either direction to find 
>>> the right gear.
>>>
>>> So I've been thinking of either going 1x, or 3x. My other bike is 1x, 
>>> and it's a carbon all-road/gravel thing. I like the setup for rougher 
>>> terrain. Also, I just don't like the idea of having duplicate bikes. I also 
>>> romanticize the bike I had about 20 years go, which had an 11-27 9 speed 
>>> with 24/36/46. At the time, it felt luxurious, natural, and easy. But I 
>>> didn't know then what I know now, and many times when I've set up a modern 
>>> bike like this one from my past, I get quickly disillusioned and undo that 
>>> change.
>>>
>>> I kinda feel like the headline should be "triples: still fun and useful 
>>> for hands on bike nerds who like to tinker."
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-8 captaincon...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I dissent.  Front derailers are unnecessarily complicated to setup, and 
>>>> so are triple chainrings, especially on XD2s.  I have 1X 10 one two bikes, 
>>>> and love it, and I just specced a 1X 11 with a Deore 5100 derailer and 
>>>> 11-51 cassette for my BMC Monstercross.  The whole drivetrain cost less 
>>>> than a nice triple crankset, it's all lighter too.  Check out Analog 
>>>> Cycles 
>>>> for inspiration.
>>>> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 11:45:17 AM UTC-6 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For years Grant/Rivendell argued against lots of gears in the rear 
>>>>> because people didn't need to shift that much. The message was to push 
>>>>> through if its too hard or even get off and push the bike up the hill. 
>>>>> Now 
>>>>> its shifting to a new argument...why not have those extra gears 
>>>>> available. 
>>>>> Honestly its all marketing to me. I like the simplicity of a 1x because I 
>>>>> get the bulk of the gears I need with less maintenance. For me 
>>>>> (personally 
>>>>> mind you) the front derailer has always been the sketchiest part of the 
>>>>> setup. Dropping chains, chain rubits all a balancing act. I am happy 
>>>>> to 
>>>>> have that all go away with a sacrifice of the granny gear. I see what VO 
>>>>> is 
>>>>> saying and I think its probably a practical opinion but for me?? 1x just 
>>>>> works.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, J

[RBW] Re: FS: Craigslist, etc 2024

[Chris Halasz]

Sad way to start off the year: 

STOLEN: Rivendell Rambouillet - $200 (Santa Barbara)


Nice 54cm Rambouillet, nicely built. 

Not mine, just saw in on CL. 

https://santabarbara.craigslist.org/bik/d/santa-barbara-stolen-rivendell/7705846559.html

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 10:20:00 AM UTC-8 maxcr wrote:

> Time for a new FS thread?
>
> I saw this 63 Roadeo on the Crust classifieds and thought a tall member 
> here might be interested: https://crustbikes.com/a/shopicial/topics/179734
>
> Good price at $1,500 for the frameset but the seller indicates it has been 
> repainted by D Cycles.
>
> [image: roadeo.jpeg]
>
> No connection to the seller.
>
> Max
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Why do some bikes just feel consistently faster?

[Chris Halasz]

The video depicts "simulated displacement of the bicycle frame when excited 
at a natural frequency of 446.54Hz. The motion is magnified five times."

Requesting some help with my simple mind on this. 446.54Hz? And magnified 
five times. I can't help be reminded of the wreck.bikes.tech Jobst days, 
when data showed no measurable deflection with large mass placed on steel 
vs. aluminum frames. 

Still wondering whether 'planing' (just resonance?) isn't all in the head, 
like fancy labels on wine bottles actually affecting 'taste'. If it's in 
the head, the dopamine release will find its way to the pedals, and cranks. 
It's still real. Next thing you know, you're traveling at ... 4446.54Hz. 

I'm reminded of Sam Maloof's take on chair design: the better chair invites 
(compels?) you to sit.  

Also reminded of the Richard Sachs axiom: 'The bike is not the frame, the 
bike is the bike.' Or something like that. It's a system of frame, wheels, 
spoke tension, tires, seat post and stem protrusion and length. How that 
all feels, and looks, affects the brain and body. 

And Patrick, that is one fine system of a bike.

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 9:40:37 AM UTC-8 Ron Mc wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxxhoKVVCvg
>
> I don't know how to embed this, or whether good will embed it, but the 
> youtube link is the mode shape that produces planing from the rear 
> triangles.  
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 10:02:55 AM UTC-6 Keith P. wrote:
>
>> Really interesting points Ted.
>> Thanks for writing them up!
>> k.
>>
>> On Jan 9, 2024, at 6:12 AM, Bill Schairer  wrote:
>>
>> Ted,
>>
>> I love your explanation!  My niece is a college crew coach and she also 
>> cycles.  I will have to ask her about "swing."
>>
>> Bill S
>> San Diego
>>
>> On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 7:15:31 AM UTC-8 Ted Durant wrote:
>>
>> Not to be overly contrarian, but ...
>>
>> Planing is a terrible word for the phenomenon in question, which is when 
>> the flex characteristics of the bike are such that the energy stored in 
>> deformation (of the frame and all the attached parts) is efficiently 
>> returned to power the rear wheel during the lower power part of the 
>> pedaling cycle. When a boat planes, it rises out of the water, resulting in 
>> a large reduction in coefficient of drag. The equivalent on a bicycle would 
>> be the development of a vacuum around the bike and rider at a certain 
>> speed. That would be fun, but it's certainly not what's happening on earth. 
>> Ironically, there is a well-known and used term in Jan's back yard, for the 
>> exact phenomenon he is trying to describe. Rowers have long used the word 
>> "swing" to describe a shell and oars whose flex characteristics synchronize 
>> well with their strokes, allowing them to go faster for a given power 
>> output. Jan claims that bikes that "plane" magically increase a rider's 
>> power output, but the reality is that bikes that swing well waste less of 
>> the rider's  power. A better way to put it might be that such a bike puts 
>> more of the rider's power to the back wheel. 
>>
>> The flex characteristics of the frame are important, of course, but the 
>> entire bicycle (and its rider) is a system of springs and in such a system 
>> the softer springs affect flex first, with the stiffer springs becoming 
>> more relevant as the forces increase. For most of us on this list, we don't 
>> spend a lot of time putting enough power into the pedals to get to the 
>> point where frame flexibility is significantly tested. At 57kg, I can tell 
>> you that I rarely put out that kind of power. I have a brevet bike made of 
>> .7/.4/.7 standard diameter tubing, and I can make that frame flex, but not 
>> for very long. That bike rides on 42mm tires at about 33 psi, and the tires 
>> are definitely the soft springs in that system.
>>
>> I don't attribute aluminum, or stiffer frames in general, to an increased 
>> focus on cadence. Track cyclists have always been obsessed with cadence. 
>> With the introduction of multiple gear systems for road biking came the 
>> opportunity to develop notions of "ideal" cadence. Note that when Jan talks 
>> about frames "planing" for him, he almost always talks about it working for 
>> his preferred cadence. Stiff frames, in fact, reduce the importance of 
>> cadence, as they reduce the contribution of the frame to swing (for a given 
>> power input). For me, cadence is only important when going uphill or into a 
>> headwind. It is important because I need enough momentum in my feet to keep 
>> a steady speed. Without that momentum, I am repeatedly accelerating during 
>> the power phase and decelerating during the non-power phase. That is 
>> terribly inefficient. And that is why, as discussed in the recent thread on 
>> gearing, it is so important to have low gears in steep hills. Long before 
>> aluminum frames were a twinkle in Gary Klein's eyes, cyclists talked about 
>> "staying on top of a gear" when climbing. It meant 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

A Riv may not be the bike for me this time.. I'm also considering a 
Litespeed Arenberg (the new one, seems like some good numbers) or maybe 
even splash out on a custom Fitz or Sycip here in Sonoma County.. 

On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:23:21 AM UTC-8 Chris Fly wrote:

> the issue with the Crust for me is the three smallest sizes seem to be 
> 650b and I don't really want a 650b bike.. plus the brake thing might bug 
> me if I did want to run larger tires in the future.. thanks Eddie! 
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:38:49 PM UTC-8 eddietheflay wrote:
>
>> I have the same brakes front and rear and there is no issue with 35mm 
>> tires. The OP wants a quick road bike so he'd  be fine too.
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:21:46 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the manufacturing 
>>> so it takes different brakes front and rear which is bizarre. Even more 
>>> bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on the front. 
>>> Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then do the 
>>> repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of my mind 
>>> and cause me not to enjoy the bike.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent clearance. 
>>>> Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that most Rivs are and 
>>>> without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put some blocks on my 
>>>> pedals and you could try it.
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one reason 
>>>>> you like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit in my 
>>>>> travel bike box.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike 
>>>>>> purchased from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to 
>>>>>> Napa. I 
>>>>>> wanted a RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps 
>>>>>> like 
>>>>>> you), hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had previously 
>>>>>> visited HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the cusp 
>>>>>> between 54 and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later 
>>>>>> concluded 
>>>>>> that I should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 in 
>>>>>> "Old Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire size 
>>>>>> that the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I 
>>>>>> considered 
>>>>>> investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized 
>>>>>> that I 
>>>>>> didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first place.  
>>>>>> And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it 
>>>>>> didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up 
>>>>>> locally, 
>>>>>> and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike 
>>>>>> that I 
>>>>>> love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some 
>>>>>> Noodles 
>>>>>> and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The 
>>>>>> Roadini 
>>>>>> felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to 
>>>>>> acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on 
>>>>>> flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on it. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But 
>>>>>> you're close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike and 
>>>>>> see 
>>>>>> what you think. The newsletter that came out today says they discovered 
>>>>>> one 
>>>>>> Gold 50 in stock...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends 
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

the issue with the Crust for me is the three smallest sizes seem to be 650b 
and I don't really want a 650b bike.. plus the brake thing might bug me if 
I did want to run larger tires in the future.. thanks Eddie! 

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:38:49 PM UTC-8 eddietheflay wrote:

> I have the same brakes front and rear and there is no issue with 35mm 
> tires. The OP wants a quick road bike so he'd  be fine too.
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:21:46 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the manufacturing 
>> so it takes different brakes front and rear which is bizarre. Even more 
>> bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on the front. 
>> Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then do the 
>> repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of my mind 
>> and cause me not to enjoy the bike.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  wrote:
>>
>>> Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent clearance. 
>>> Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that most Rivs are and 
>>> without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put some blocks on my 
>>> pedals and you could try it.
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one reason 
>>>> you like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit in my 
>>>> travel bike box.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike 
>>>>> purchased from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to Napa. 
>>>>> I 
>>>>> wanted a RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps 
>>>>> like 
>>>>> you), hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had previously 
>>>>> visited HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the cusp 
>>>>> between 54 and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later 
>>>>> concluded 
>>>>> that I should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 in 
>>>>> "Old Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire size 
>>>>> that the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I considered 
>>>>> investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized that 
>>>>> I 
>>>>> didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first place.  
>>>>> And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it 
>>>>> didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up 
>>>>> locally, 
>>>>> and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike that 
>>>>> I 
>>>>> love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some Noodles 
>>>>> and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The 
>>>>> Roadini 
>>>>> felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to 
>>>>> acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on 
>>>>> flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on it. 
>>>>>
>>>>> If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But you're 
>>>>> close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike and see what 
>>>>> you think. The newsletter that came out today says they discovered one 
>>>>> Gold 
>>>>> 50 in stock...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends 
>>>>>> already claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes 
>>>>>> like 
>>>>>> crazy when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 
>>>>>> pounds. 
>>>>>> If I was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 200 
>>>>>> pounds I still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I 
>>>>>> don't consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the road. 
>>>>>> I 
>>>>>> want 80mm or 85mm drop for a bike built for modern style giant 

[RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. I'm 
looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger tires.. 
Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning the 
tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy.. 

Thoughts? 

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:15:25 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have about 1300 miles on my Roadini: 
> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html. 
> With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not 
> built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with pedals, 
> bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have probably 
> shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said that, 
> it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993 
> Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents (the 
> higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). What I do find is that with 38mm 
> tires it is an excellent gravel bike and I have no issues taking it down 
> single track  trails that others would consider MTB trails. The Tektro 559s 
> outperform any disc brakes I've ever found and never make noise (unlike any 
> disc brakes I've ever ridden).
>
> I did buy another 50cm Roadini to build up for my son when he's tall 
> enough to ride it (which won't take a year), so that tells you that I think 
> it's the best general purpose bike in the Rivendell stable. The bike is so 
> versatile I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere except a dedicated 
> downhill MTB park.
> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Howdy all,
>>
>> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be 
>> some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I 
>> got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a 
>> Ram for a short time. 
>>
>> So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? 
>> I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can 
>> weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I 
>> like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at 
>> my, fast for me, 18-19 mph.. 
>>
>> I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish 
>> group.. 
>>
>> Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are looking 
>> to move? 
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris is Sonoma County, CA :) 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

Thanks Tony!

I do have the Homer set up with drop bars, but since it was my Dad's, it's 
not exactly my perfect size and it's a 650b model (not sure if they all 
were) and I don't want to change much of the bike as it was my Dad's (he 
had Alt bars on it). 

Good to know you are enjoying your Roadini.. I don't mind welds and they 
don't look too bad from the pics.. :) 

Thanks.
Chris 

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 3:02:27 PM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> Thanks for sharing your story. I’m sorry to hear about your dad’s passing 
> however I’m happy to hear that his bike is being put to good use. 
>
> To answer your question, I’ll verify that the Leo is fast(ish), as you put 
> it. I just bought one and have about 150 miles on it. 
>
> Having run a hundred different setups on my Sam during the past 14 years, 
> I’ll just add that you can set up your Homer to be fast(ish). But if you’re 
> itching for a new bike, the Roadini is great. Definitely less flex in the 
> rear triangle with out of the saddle climbs. If you’ve got a type A 
> personality, you’ll think the welds in the Leo look sloppy. Nothing beats a 
> gorgeous, lugged frame….but if you care about something reliable and fun, 
> definitely not sluggish, and beautifully quirky, the Roadini is the way to 
> go. 
>
> Happy trails, Tony
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Howdy all,
>>
>> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be 
>> some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I 
>> got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a 
>> Ram for a short time. 
>>
>> So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? 
>> I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can 
>> weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I 
>> like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at 
>> my, fast for me, 18-19 mph.. 
>>
>> I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish 
>> group.. 
>>
>> Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are looking 
>> to move? 
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris is Sonoma County, CA :) 
>>
>

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[RBW] Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

Howdy all,

So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be some 
bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I got 
from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a Ram 
for a short time. 

So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? I'm 
sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can weigh a 
bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I like a 
bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at my, fast 
for me, 18-19 mph.. 

I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish group.. 

Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are looking 
to move? 

Thanks,
Chris is Sonoma County, CA :) 

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Re: [RBW] Riv's new handlebar bag

[Chris Halasz]

Nick

Does the Routeworks bag rattle? 

- Chris 

On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 11:57:18 AM UTC-8 Nick Payne wrote:

> On Thursday 21 December 2023 at 3:41:18 am UTC+11 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
> My biggest issue with handlebar bags of this type is that most designs 
> have a tendency to sway forward and back and rely on complicated (and, IMHO 
> ugly) systems of cords or straps lashed to the frame or handlebars to 
> prevent sway.
>
>
> I've been pretty impressed with the Routewerks handlebar bag that I bought 
> about 18 months ago. It's well thought out and made, totally stable in use, 
> and attaches and detaches from the mount in a couple fo seconds with a cam 
> action similar to a quick release. I got two mounts with it, so I can 
> easily swap it between bikes.
>
> https://routewerks.cc/
>
> Nick Payne
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Brooks B68, Paul Cantis, DA Barcons, Gravelkings, Nitto Stem, Tektro Levers

[Chris Halasz]

UPDATES BELOW 


*Brooks B68*, Brown - $120 

SOLD - Paul Touring Cantis Silver - $90/set (two sets)  

SOLD - Shimano Dura-Ace 9-Speed Barcons - $80 

PENDING - Gravelking SS 650b x 48mm black (set) - $50 

*Nitto UI-5GX hreadless stem* 12cm 7deg silver 1-1/8 25.4mm t - $40 

PENDING - T*ektro Drop Bar Brake Levers* (set) - $30 


Photos here: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sea-fisherman/albums/72177720313362957/with/53397069665


Will split most efficiently packed USPS shipping from Santa Barbara, CA


If interested, please do not attempt PayPal transactions without verifying 
my account ID! 


PS: I'll stop the updates here, and if anyone's interested in a trade for 
the saddle or stem, I might be interested in some 55-60cm Toscos or Loscos, 
or 165-170mm 130/74BCD triples, and maybe some nice flat pedals, and we can 
negotiate what's fair in the trade. 


Thanks, 


Chris 


On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:07:08 AM UTC-8 Chris Halasz wrote:

> UPDATES BELOW 
>
>
> *Brooks B68*, Brown - $120 
>
> SOLD - Paul Touring Cantis Silver - $90/set (two sets)  
>
> *Shimano Dura-Ace* 9-Speed Barcons - $80 
>
> *Gravelking SS* 650b x 48mm black (set) - $50 
>
> *Nitto UI-5GX hreadless stem* 12cm 7deg silver 1-1/8 25.4mm t - $40 
>
> PENDING - T*ektro Drop Bar Brake Levers* (set) - $30 
>
>
> Photos here: 
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/sea-fisherman/albums/72177720313362957/with/53397069665
>
>
> Will split most efficiently packed USPS shipping from Santa Barbara, CA
>
>
> If interested, please do not attempt PayPal transactions without verifying 
> my account ID! 
>
>
> Thanks, 
>
>
> Chris 
>
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 8:57:00 PM UTC-8 Chris Halasz wrote:
>
>> In an effort to clear out some space in storage: 
>>
>> *Brooks B68*, Brown - $120 
>>
>> *Paul Touring Cantis* Silver - $90/set (two sets) 
>>
>> *Shimano Dura-Ace* 9-Speed Barcons - $80 
>>
>> *Gravelking SS* 650b x 48mm black (set) - $50 
>>
>> *Nitto UI-5GX hreadless stem* 12cm 7deg silver 1-1/8 25.4mm t - $40 
>>
>> *Tektro Drop Bar Brake Levers* (set) - $30 
>>
>>
>> Photos here: 
>>
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/sea-fisherman/albums/72177720313362957/with/53397069665
>>
>>
>> Will split most efficiently packed USPS shipping from Santa Barbara, CA
>>
>>
>> If interested, please do not attempt PayPal transactions without 
>> verifying my account ID! 
>>
>>
>> Thanks, 
>>
>>
>> Chris 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: HUGE Rivendell archive update: Catalogs, flyers, brochures and more

[Chris L]

I think the Hunqapillar was first offered around 2011 and I have one from 
the first batch, bought from the original owner a few years ago.  

Just as an interesting observation, I've been following RBW since 2011 and 
for much of that time, most of the opinions I encountered outside this 
small community were not overwhelmingly positive.  Now that the whole 
gravel thing has taken off, I've found a ton of respect and admiration for 
Rivendell.  Bike shop employees actually get excited when they see mine and 
a couple have expressed interest, if I ever consider parting with it.  One 
guy, who owns some very cool bikes and even started his own bike company, 
said he knows several guys with Hunqapillars and that would be interested 
in mine. 

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 5:56:44 PM UTC-5 johnny@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I've been trolling through old Riv Reader's, some fun reading I remember 
> doing a long time ago when those were new. Thanks for sharing and archiving!
>
> Question though, and it's probably an easy one. I own a Hunqapillar and 
> love it. When was the Hunq offered? What years and how many years? Any idea 
> how many frames were sold? 
>
> On Friday, July 8, 2022 at 7:28:27 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone. Small update: Reed added the Hunqapillar brochure to the 
>> archive. 
>>
>>
>> http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Hunqapillar.pdf
>>
>> On Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 8:59:16 AM UTC-5 John A. Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> Great to see this again, Eric. I *might* have a copy...somewhere. 
>>>
>>> Thanks! 
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 10:08:47 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've spent the last several months scanning my collection of Rivendell 
 catalogs, flyers, ads and brochures. 

 Reed, who hosts the archive of Rivendell Readers at 
 http://notfine.com/rivreader/, kindly added all of my scans to the 
 site. Now there is quite a trove of Rivendell ephemera. 

 He created a new link (the old one still works!): 
 http://notfine.com/rivendell/

 Enjoy reading! All of the files are text searchable. If you have 
 anything that we haven't included please send me a DM. 


- All 20 Rivendell catalogs
   -  Catalogs from 1996-2018
- Frame brochures
   - 1995 frames mailer
   - Atlantis and Atlantis 2
   - Rambouillet
   - Romulus
   - Rivendell Frame Brochure
   - An early frame paint chart
   - *I'm missing the Cheviot brochure*
- Flyers
   - Nine flyers from 2002–2009
   - *I'm missing Hiawatha Holidays No. 1 *
- Ads
   - An add for the reader from Vintage Bicycle Quarterly
   - A 2014 Cheviot ad




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[RBW] Re: FS: Brooks B68, Paul Cantis, DA Barcons, Gravelkings, Nitto Stem, Tektro Levers

[Chris Halasz]

*Brooks B68*, Brown - $120 

SOLD - Paul Touring Cantis Silver - $90/set (two sets)  

SOLD - Shimano Dura-Ace 9-Speed Barcons - $80 

*Gravelking SS* 650b x 48mm black (set) - $50 

*Nitto UI-5GX hreadless stem* 12cm 7deg silver 1-1/8 25.4mm t - $40 

SOLD - T*ektro Drop Bar Brake Levers* (set) - $30 


Photos here: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sea-fisherman/albums/72177720313362957/with/53397069665


Will split most efficiently packed USPS shipping from Santa Barbara, CA


If interested, please do not attempt PayPal transactions without verifying 
my account ID! 


Thanks, 


Chris 


On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:07:08 AM UTC-8 Chris Halasz wrote:

> UPDATES BELOW 
>
>
> *Brooks B68*, Brown - $120 
>
> SOLD - Paul Touring Cantis Silver - $90/set (two sets)  
>
> *Shimano Dura-Ace* 9-Speed Barcons - $80 
>
> *Gravelking SS* 650b x 48mm black (set) - $50 
>
> *Nitto UI-5GX hreadless stem* 12cm 7deg silver 1-1/8 25.4mm t - $40 
>
> PENDING - T*ektro Drop Bar Brake Levers* (set) - $30 
>
>
> Photos here: 
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/sea-fisherman/albums/72177720313362957/with/53397069665
>
>
> Will split most efficiently packed USPS shipping from Santa Barbara, CA
>
>
> If interested, please do not attempt PayPal transactions without verifying 
> my account ID! 
>
>
> Thanks, 
>
>
> Chris 
>
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 8:57:00 PM UTC-8 Chris Halasz wrote:
>
>> In an effort to clear out some space in storage: 
>>
>> *Brooks B68*, Brown - $120 
>>
>> *Paul Touring Cantis* Silver - $90/set (two sets) 
>>
>> *Shimano Dura-Ace* 9-Speed Barcons - $80 
>>
>> *Gravelking SS* 650b x 48mm black (set) - $50 
>>
>> *Nitto UI-5GX hreadless stem* 12cm 7deg silver 1-1/8 25.4mm t - $40 
>>
>> *Tektro Drop Bar Brake Levers* (set) - $30 
>>
>>
>> Photos here: 
>>
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/sea-fisherman/albums/72177720313362957/with/53397069665
>>
>>
>> Will split most efficiently packed USPS shipping from Santa Barbara, CA
>>
>>
>> If interested, please do not attempt PayPal transactions without 
>> verifying my account ID! 
>>
>>
>> Thanks, 
>>
>>
>> Chris 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Brooks B68, Paul Cantis, DA Barcons, Gravelkings, Nitto Stem, Tektro Levers

[Chris Halasz]

UPDATES BELOW 


*Brooks B68*, Brown - $120 

SOLD - Paul Touring Cantis Silver - $90/set (two sets)  

*Shimano Dura-Ace* 9-Speed Barcons - $80 

*Gravelking SS* 650b x 48mm black (set) - $50 

*Nitto UI-5GX hreadless stem* 12cm 7deg silver 1-1/8 25.4mm t - $40 

PENDING - T*ektro Drop Bar Brake Levers* (set) - $30 


Photos here: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sea-fisherman/albums/72177720313362957/with/53397069665


Will split most efficiently packed USPS shipping from Santa Barbara, CA


If interested, please do not attempt PayPal transactions without verifying 
my account ID! 


Thanks, 


Chris 

On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 8:57:00 PM UTC-8 Chris Halasz wrote:

> In an effort to clear out some space in storage: 
>
> *Brooks B68*, Brown - $120 
>
> *Paul Touring Cantis* Silver - $90/set (two sets) 
>
> *Shimano Dura-Ace* 9-Speed Barcons - $80 
>
> *Gravelking SS* 650b x 48mm black (set) - $50 
>
> *Nitto UI-5GX hreadless stem* 12cm 7deg silver 1-1/8 25.4mm t - $40 
>
> *Tektro Drop Bar Brake Levers* (set) - $30 
>
>
> Photos here: 
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/sea-fisherman/albums/72177720313362957/with/53397069665
>
>
> Will split most efficiently packed USPS shipping from Santa Barbara, CA
>
>
> If interested, please do not attempt PayPal transactions without verifying 
> my account ID! 
>
>
> Thanks, 
>
>
> Chris 
>

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[RBW] FS: Brooks B68, Paul Cantis, DA Barcons, Gravelkings, Nitto Stem, Tektro Levers

[Chris Halasz]

In an effort to clear out some space in storage: 

*Brooks B68*, Brown - $120 

*Paul Touring Cantis* Silver - $90/set (two sets) 

*Shimano Dura-Ace* 9-Speed Barcons - $80 

*Gravelking SS* 650b x 48mm black (set) - $50 

*Nitto UI-5GX hreadless stem* 12cm 7deg silver 1-1/8 25.4mm t - $40 

*Tektro Drop Bar Brake Levers* (set) - $30 


Photos here: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sea-fisherman/albums/72177720313362957/with/53397069665


Will split most efficiently packed USPS shipping from Santa Barbara, CA


If interested, please do not attempt PayPal transactions without verifying 
my account ID! 


Thanks, 


Chris 

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[RBW] Re: Has anyone else tried the new Riv seat?

[Chris K]

Chris - I wanna say my Ergon saddle is the SR Allroad Comp. Nice basic 
saddle.

On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 7:58:55 AM UTC-7 Steven Seelig wrote:

> I replaced a Brooks Flyer Curved on my Xtracycle now Bafang E-bike that is 
> about as upright as it gets.  Agree that at first I wasn't sure where this 
> part of my sit bone connected to that part of the saddle.  After a few more 
> rides, I simply forgot it was on the bike at all.  Given that with e-bikes 
> you are constantly shifting the assist and the 9 speed derailleur to hit 
> the perfect sweet spot, and I ride in City traffic, perhaps I was not as 
> in-tune as i would be on a quiet country road.  I prefer it to the Brooks 
> and don't miss the absence of the spring in the least.  
>
> My experience is likely comparing persimmons to cumquats for someone 
> riding unupright on an analog bike.
>
> On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 1:53:12 PM UTC-5 Tom Wyland wrote:
>
> I have it on my Platy currently. It replaced a Selle Anatomica H2 (at 
> least for the winter). The SA was a tad too narrow since I swapped to 
> slighly more upright bars. I haven't yet decided if the Riv saddle is too 
> wide (by 1-2cm).  I don't really care for the wide nose of the Riv saddle, 
> but I suppose I'll get used to it. I do like the flat shape and the amount 
> of padding (minimal). It's good for a more upright ride due to the width.  
> I may use it on my wife's bike to swap out the Bontrager commuter saddle 
> (wide).  When viewed from the side, the Bontrager commuter saddle has 
> shoulders that slope down where the Riv saddle is a flat profile. We both 
> prefer saddles that have a flat profile.  I've also ridden a VO wide 
> touring saddle and the Riv saddle is wider both in the nose and the rear.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Has anyone else tried the new Riv seat?

[Chris Halasz]

Chris

Which Ergon did you use that has a narrower horn? 

Curious if it's one of the wider Ergons for more upright riding. 

On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 7:19:28 AM UTC-8 Chris K wrote:

> Just put one on and I'm not sure I like it... yet. The material is comfy 
> but I can't tell where I should be sitting on it, if that makes any sense. 
> Coming from an Ergon saddle the nose of the Riv saddle is super wide. 
> That's my least favorite part of the shape.
>
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 10:13:58 AM UTC-7 modemm...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Huh - I'm curious.  Did you ever have the black plastic one they included 
>> with the 2016 Sam completes?  If so, how does it compare?
>>
>> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 4:41:29 PM UTC-5 Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>
>>> Riv shipment just delivered, including the new seat, which I mounted 
>>> right away for a neighborhood spin.  I find it immediately comfortable and 
>>> am eager to try it on a longer ride; first impressions are very positive.  
>>> Have any of you ridden it yet?
>>>
>>> Now for that new derailer/derailleur!
>>>
>>> Tom
>>> Miami, FL, where it is currently 82ºF
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho vs. Nitto Albatross

[Chris Halasz]

Thanks to all for the great input on different bars and their applications. 

When I first tried Albatross bars on my Bleriot, I could not get 
comfortable with them. Fifteen years later the Albatross bars are my 
favorite. I use them on a 58cm LHT. 

I recently experienced shoulder pain when I tried (much) wider upright 
bars. I swam long distances for decades and am now careful with my worn 
shoulders. Somewhere I read that it's important to keep the arms 'in the 
box' (i.e. within the width of the box established by the shoulders) during 
exercise. It seems to work very well with this scrawny six-foot-tall 
person. I'm fairly upright on the LHT, with the bars about 2.5" above the 
B68 saddle. 

I'm curious to try some of the narrower Toscos sometime. The way the bars 
can be tilted so that the grips tilt toward the downtube is intriguing. No 
rush, but someday. 

On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 1:02:28 PM UTC-8 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> If you were to overlay Toscos (the 650mm version) over top of some Orthos 
> like that, you would find them nearly the same in just about every way... 
> for anyone pining for some unobtainable Ortho bars.
>
> On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 3:46 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>
>> I am late to this party & I may not be much help but… I’ve been running 
>> Bosco bars on my two bikes - a Clem & a Gus. They are pretty much perfect. 
>> Except that the Gus begs to be ridden harder on singletrack than I was 
>> comfortable with. After much deliberation I took a flyer & installed a 
>> “Albacore” handlebar from Hope Cyclery. It’s wide @ 785. It has a forward 
>> sweep before coming back & a very comfortable & confidence inspiring 50-60 
>> degrees. It necessitated ditching my 90mm stem for a 35mm one. These 
>> changes transformed the Gus. The part of this that might apply to your 
>> situation; wide bars feel great on the trails, experimentation can be fun & 
>> rewarding.
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 4, 2023, at 1:35 PM, Chris K  wrote:
>>
>> J, question about your mothbars - do you find yourself ever using other 
>> hand positions?
>>
>> Intrigued by this bar but it looks like holding on anywhere but the ends 
>> would be awkward with such a wide bar.
>>
>> On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 4:20:31 PM UTC-6 J wrote:
>>
>>> I've always had problems with swept back bars, tried many over the years 
>>> from Riv, Velo O, Soma and the Albatross bar lasted the longest (6 months?) 
>>> on any bike but they were never really comfortable either. Everything 
>>> always felt too narrow for my shoulder width and gave me neck pain. I had 
>>> an opportunity to try the Tumbleweed Persuader bars on my hardtail, and 
>>> even though the back sweep threw the fit off it still got my gears turning 
>>> about wider swoopy bars. I widened some Albatross bars in a vice and really 
>>> felt like I was getting somewhere but started having saddle comfort issues 
>>> from riding upright again, an issue I've always had. Last year I got to try 
>>> Ron's Ortho bars on his Atlantis and they felt ridiculous in the moment, 
>>> but a day later I was still thinking about them. They'd been sold out for 
>>> so long I gave up and sourced some Magic Components Mothbars, and they've 
>>> been great! They turned an old aluminum mtb I wasn't riding into a bike I'd 
>>> happily take for a casual ride under 30 miles. 
>>>
>>> [image: 2xzuKpol[1].jpg]
>>> [image: JMRTj5Ql[1].jpg]
>>> [image: 6ySLdfsl[1].jpg]
>>> [image: TPvZVebl[1].jpg]
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 3:01:00 PM UTC-4 exliontamer wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Albatross is my favorite upright bar. I'm a fairly tall guy with 
>>>> fairly big hands and it really only has 1 1/2 hand positions for me but I 
>>>> love the feel of it. It's stiff enough for trails, upright enough to 
>>>> commute on, etc. They live on my older Toyo Atlantis. I do think the newer 
>>>> revisions like the Billie work a lot better for newer Rivs with longer top 
>>>> tubes. The Billie in particular is incredible. It would just have too much 
>>>> sweepback for me on the Atlantis without using a comically long stem and I 
>>>> would lose that forward bend position without having to lean a lot.
>>>> As to Ortho bars I don't know how well they work for smaller statured 
>>>> riders. I just put a pair on my Cheviot and they feel good out of the gate 
>>>> but for someone who doesn't have broad shoulders they could be overkill. 
>>>> On Saturday

[RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho vs. Nitto Albatross

[Chris K]

J, question about your mothbars - do you find yourself ever using other 
hand positions?

Intrigued by this bar but it looks like holding on anywhere but the ends 
would be awkward with such a wide bar.

On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 4:20:31 PM UTC-6 J wrote:

> I've always had problems with swept back bars, tried many over the years 
> from Riv, Velo O, Soma and the Albatross bar lasted the longest (6 months?) 
> on any bike but they were never really comfortable either. Everything 
> always felt too narrow for my shoulder width and gave me neck pain. I had 
> an opportunity to try the Tumbleweed Persuader bars on my hardtail, and 
> even though the back sweep threw the fit off it still got my gears turning 
> about wider swoopy bars. I widened some Albatross bars in a vice and really 
> felt like I was getting somewhere but started having saddle comfort issues 
> from riding upright again, an issue I've always had. Last year I got to try 
> Ron's Ortho bars on his Atlantis and they felt ridiculous in the moment, 
> but a day later I was still thinking about them. They'd been sold out for 
> so long I gave up and sourced some Magic Components Mothbars, and they've 
> been great! They turned an old aluminum mtb I wasn't riding into a bike I'd 
> happily take for a casual ride under 30 miles. 
>
> [image: 2xzuKpol[1].jpg]
> [image: JMRTj5Ql[1].jpg]
> [image: 6ySLdfsl[1].jpg]
> [image: TPvZVebl[1].jpg]
>
> On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 3:01:00 PM UTC-4 exliontamer wrote:
>
>> The Albatross is my favorite upright bar. I'm a fairly tall guy with 
>> fairly big hands and it really only has 1 1/2 hand positions for me but I 
>> love the feel of it. It's stiff enough for trails, upright enough to 
>> commute on, etc. They live on my older Toyo Atlantis. I do think the newer 
>> revisions like the Billie work a lot better for newer Rivs with longer top 
>> tubes. The Billie in particular is incredible. It would just have too much 
>> sweepback for me on the Atlantis without using a comically long stem and I 
>> would lose that forward bend position without having to lean a lot.
>> As to Ortho bars I don't know how well they work for smaller statured 
>> riders. I just put a pair on my Cheviot and they feel good out of the gate 
>> but for someone who doesn't have broad shoulders they could be overkill. 
>> On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 11:22:34 AM UTC-5 Glen wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a Billie Bar convert thanks to a kind list member and prefer them 
>>> for the extra hand position in front of the brake levers. Yes they could 
>>> look nicer with some extra rise, I'd prefer to look at a swooped up bar 
>>> than a tall stem but that doesn't impact my ride only my gaze when looking 
>>> at my bike instead of riding it. 
>>>
>>> Regarding the usability of the front hand position. I find myself there 
>>> when I need one of two things, getting out of the wind while fighting a 
>>> head wind or giving myself a good long stretch while still seated. With a 
>>> 13cm stem and Billies I can get a really good stretch without getting off 
>>> the bike. 
>>>
>>> FWIW my Billies are on a 64cm Atlantis
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 6:00:25 PM UTC+2 kirkebc...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've been riding Billie bars on my 90s Novara mtb for about two years 
 and absolutely love them for all the reasons Eric mentioned. 
 I have two critiques: I wish they had a little bit more rise and they 
 just aren't quite as aesthetically appealing as Albatross bars, which just 
 seem to have a smoother overall curvature and shape. I'd love it if 
 someone 
 made a handlebar that was an Albatross with essentially the same width and 
 extended sweep back of the Billie bars. 
 On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 2:34:41 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi David — I've run Albatross, Billie and Ortho bars on different 
> bikes and have enjoyed them all. I think that the Billies are the sweet 
> spot, more sweep back and wider than the Albatross and not out there in 
> mutant territory like the Orthos. 
>
> All three bars have a similar shape but each has more sweep back than 
> the next and they get wider along the scale as well. I do like having 
> more 
> sweep back to accommodate levers, thumb-mounted shifters *and *to 
> have a nice long grip position in the hooks which I find good for 
> spirited 
> riding and climbing out of the saddle. 
>
> I don't think I'll run *Albatross* bars again, despite their beauty 
> and the classic shape. Just not enough room for levers, thumb shifters 
> and 
> the hooks grip position for me. I'd consider it with bar end shifters but 
> don't see myself running swept back bars and bar-ends together anytime 
> soon. The image below, from Rivendell Catalog No. 20, is how I fell in 
> love 
> with the Albatross bar. 
>
> [image: Screenshot 2023-08-25 at 3.12.33 PM.png]
>

Re: [RBW] Re: Has anyone else tried the new Riv seat?

[Chris K]

With several more rides and miles, I am liking it more and more. I like the 
ability to move around on it. No soreness. Currently set up in a fairly 
upright position, around 60º or so.

The horn is still a little wider than I would prefer, but I guess I'm 
getting used to it.

On Saturday, November 18, 2023 at 12:49:07 PM UTC-7 cramer@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Didn't. Looks comfortable. If it was a little bit narrower I'd keep it.  
> NWT. Never mounted. 
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023, 10:14 AM Jon Craig (Vendraen)  
> wrote:
>
>> Huh - I'm curious.  Did you ever have the black plastic one they included 
>> with the 2016 Sam completes?  If so, how does it compare?
>>
>> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 4:41:29 PM UTC-5 Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>
>>> Riv shipment just delivered, including the new seat, which I mounted 
>>> right away for a neighborhood spin.  I find it immediately comfortable and 
>>> am eager to try it on a longer ride; first impressions are very positive.  
>>> Have any of you ridden it yet?
>>>
>>> Now for that new derailer/derailleur!
>>>
>>> Tom
>>> Miami, FL, where it is currently 82ºF
>>>
>> -- 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Long chainstay content: Esker Hayduke LVS review at The Radavist

[Chris K]

Thanks for the link.

I saw a solo rider on a tandem the other night. Rally long 
chainstay on that ride, haha

On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 2:07:31 PM UTC-7 Jeremy Till wrote:

> I thought some on here might be interested in The Radavist's review of 
> the Esker Hayduke LVS 
> , 
> which they posted last week. The Hayduke LVS is a new titanium hardtail 
> mountain bike with long (600mm) chainstays. 
>
> I though it would be of interest for a number of reasons: 
>
>1. Another company (aside from Rivendell and Jeff Jones) thinks long 
>chainstays are a good enough idea to build a production model around them.
>2. The reviewer, John Watson (owner of the Radavist), gives Grant his 
>due credit for some of the thinking behind long chainstays, although it's 
>unclear to me if Esker themselves credit him for influencing the design. 
>3. The review is favorable (to put it mildly) and everything John says 
>about riding the Hayduke LVS reflects my feelings about riding my 59cm 
> Clem 
>H (with 56cm chainstays) off-road. I don't do it much anymore, but back 
>before I had a kid I did a fair amount of mountain biking on it and I 
> loved 
>the sure-footed feeling on climbs and the long wheelbase stability on the 
>descents, compared to other hardtails and full-suspension bikes I had 
>ridden with more "standard" MTB geometry (read: short chainstays). In 
> fact, 
>I would argue that the fact that the Esker is completely otherwise a 
>standard hardtail with suspension fork, disc brakes, and dropper seatpost 
>points to the fundamental soundness of the long-chainstay design, given 
>that it seems to work even if you don't buy into all of Grant's 
>particularities when it comes to component selection.  
>
> I hope others enjoy reading it too! The accompanying video of the 
> bikepacking trip they took is also fun.  
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Sacramento, CA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Has anyone else tried the new Riv seat?

[Chris K]

Just put one on and I'm not sure I like it... yet. The material is comfy 
but I can't tell where I should be sitting on it, if that makes any sense. 
Coming from an Ergon saddle the nose of the Riv saddle is super wide. 
That's my least favorite part of the shape.

On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 10:13:58 AM UTC-7 modemm...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Huh - I'm curious.  Did you ever have the black plastic one they included 
> with the 2016 Sam completes?  If so, how does it compare?
>
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 4:41:29 PM UTC-5 Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
>> Riv shipment just delivered, including the new seat, which I mounted 
>> right away for a neighborhood spin.  I find it immediately comfortable and 
>> am eager to try it on a longer ride; first impressions are very positive.  
>> Have any of you ridden it yet?
>>
>> Now for that new derailer/derailleur!
>>
>> Tom
>> Miami, FL, where it is currently 82ºF
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hillborne fork on a Heron?

[Chris Dedinsky]

Jason - I know in my heart that's the smart decision, especially with 
regard to the design considerations. It's probably fortuitous that nobody 
has gotten in touch with a possible fork as of yet. With any luck, I'll be 
distracted with other bike notions sooner than later. 

On Sunday, November 12, 2023 at 4:07:12 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> For what it's worth, one of my riding pals runs the 700x38 Rene Herse 
> knobbies and they're delightful as well, so if you choose to size down to 
> address the issue I don't think you'll be missing out a whole lot.  Plus, 
> that keeps the BB height, etc closer to the design values. 
>
> On Thursday, 9 November 2023 at 16:44:06 UTC-8 h...@chrisdedinsky.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the kind words! It's really a delightful unit.  
>>
>> On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 4:15:56 PM UTC-8 brok...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I just want to chime in to say, that’s the sexiest Heron I’ve ever seen. 
>>> So well done! 落
>>>
>>> On Nov 9, 2023, at 7:10 PM, Chris Dedinsky  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Appreciate the threadless insight too Wes. I wouldn't have considered 
>>> that as an option. Bit I'll keep it in mind as I do a bit more research. 
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 7:52:34 AM UTC-8 Wesley wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just FYI, you have more choices than you might think with the fork. If 
>>>> you find a fork you like but the steerer is too long, you can still use it!
>>>>
>>>> If the upper race can't thread all the way down to the cup, you can 
>>>> swap your headset for a 1" threadless headset, and screw the top nut not 
>>>> the fork threads to provide preload to the headset without having to use 
>>>> the typical internal nut of a treadless headset. This means you can still 
>>>> use a quill stem with a threadless headset! I did this recently with a 
>>>> threaded fork having a vry long steerer in order to get my handlebars 
>>>> higher. Happy to provide ics later if that would be helpful.
>>>> -Wes
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 12:22:21 PM UTC-8 
>>>> h...@chrisdedinsky.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This week I was commuting home from work on my Heron. I got a flat on 
>>>>> my Challenge Strada Bianca 36 tires and on a whim—certainly inspired by 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> recent 'Rondini' episode of Ron's bikes YouTube episode—decided to stuff 
>>>>> in 
>>>>> a pair of much too large 700x42 Hurricane Ridge tires to enjoy until the 
>>>>> snow falls. Which should be pretty quick here in British Columbia's 
>>>>> southern interior.
>>>>>
>>>>> The fork clearance is decidedly too tight and perhaps irresponsible, 
>>>>> if not dangerous. I'm gonna keep my fenders on as I'm not sure how long 
>>>>> this experiment will last. So far a couple of sporting trips back and 
>>>>> forth 
>>>>> to work. 
>>>>>
>>>>> It has got me thinking though, has anyone out there modified their 
>>>>> Heron to have more modern Riv tire clearances? In the vein of a Sam 
>>>>> Hillborne. I was daydreaming about putting a more tolerable fork and 
>>>>> crimping the chainstays, so I could run up in the +45 range. Although the 
>>>>> rear wheel has much more than a few sheets of paper in clearance and the 
>>>>> irrevesability of crimping makes me nervous. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Would love to hear any thoughts on the pro's/con's. And if there are 
>>>>> any extra hillborne forks out there for a ~57 frame, I may be interested. 
>>>>> If so, I can give specs. I know I should leave a perfectly wonderful 
>>>>> frameset alone, but I can't help but wonder about it. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are some pics that make the fit seem even more dramatic on that 
>>>>> front fork. 
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: IMG_4368.jpg]
>>>>> [image: IMG_4363.jpg]
>>>>> [image: IMG_4364.jpg]
>>>>> [image: IMG_4365.jpg]
>>>>> [image: IMG_4366.jpg]
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a8dd316e-0bd3-4f64-ade3-1d3e78e30e4en%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a8dd316e-0bd3-4f64-ade3-1d3e78e30e4en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hillborne fork on a Heron?

[Chris Dedinsky]

Thank you for the kind words! It's really a delightful unit.  

On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 4:15:56 PM UTC-8 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> I just want to chime in to say, that’s the sexiest Heron I’ve ever seen. 
> So well done! 落
>
> On Nov 9, 2023, at 7:10 PM, Chris Dedinsky  wrote:
>
> Appreciate the threadless insight too Wes. I wouldn't have considered 
> that as an option. Bit I'll keep it in mind as I do a bit more research. 
> Thank you!
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 7:52:34 AM UTC-8 Wesley wrote:
>
>> Just FYI, you have more choices than you might think with the fork. If 
>> you find a fork you like but the steerer is too long, you can still use it!
>>
>> If the upper race can't thread all the way down to the cup, you can swap 
>> your headset for a 1" threadless headset, and screw the top nut not the 
>> fork threads to provide preload to the headset without having to use the 
>> typical internal nut of a treadless headset. This means you can still use a 
>> quill stem with a threadless headset! I did this recently with a threaded 
>> fork having a vry long steerer in order to get my handlebars higher. 
>> Happy to provide ics later if that would be helpful.
>> -Wes
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 12:22:21 PM UTC-8 
>> h...@chrisdedinsky.com wrote:
>>
>>> This week I was commuting home from work on my Heron. I got a flat on my 
>>> Challenge Strada Bianca 36 tires and on a whim—certainly inspired by the 
>>> recent 'Rondini' episode of Ron's bikes YouTube episode—decided to stuff in 
>>> a pair of much too large 700x42 Hurricane Ridge tires to enjoy until the 
>>> snow falls. Which should be pretty quick here in British Columbia's 
>>> southern interior.
>>>
>>> The fork clearance is decidedly too tight and perhaps irresponsible, if 
>>> not dangerous. I'm gonna keep my fenders on as I'm not sure how long this 
>>> experiment will last. So far a couple of sporting trips back and forth to 
>>> work. 
>>>
>>> It has got me thinking though, has anyone out there modified their Heron 
>>> to have more modern Riv tire clearances? In the vein of a Sam Hillborne. I 
>>> was daydreaming about putting a more tolerable fork and crimping the 
>>> chainstays, so I could run up in the +45 range. Although the rear wheel has 
>>> much more than a few sheets of paper in clearance and the irrevesability of 
>>> crimping makes me nervous. 
>>>
>>> Would love to hear any thoughts on the pro's/con's. And if there are any 
>>> extra hillborne forks out there for a ~57 frame, I may be interested. If 
>>> so, I can give specs. I know I should leave a perfectly wonderful frameset 
>>> alone, but I can't help but wonder about it. 
>>>
>>> Here are some pics that make the fit seem even more dramatic on that 
>>> front fork. 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_4368.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_4363.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_4364.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_4365.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_4366.jpg]
>>>
>>> -- 
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[RBW] Re: Hillborne fork on a Heron?

[Chris Dedinsky]

Appreciate the threadless insight too Wes. I wouldn't have considered that 
as an option. Bit I'll keep it in mind as I do a bit more research. Thank 
you!

On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 7:52:34 AM UTC-8 Wesley wrote:

> Just FYI, you have more choices than you might think with the fork. If you 
> find a fork you like but the steerer is too long, you can still use it!
>
> If the upper race can't thread all the way down to the cup, you can swap 
> your headset for a 1" threadless headset, and screw the top nut not the 
> fork threads to provide preload to the headset without having to use the 
> typical internal nut of a treadless headset. This means you can still use a 
> quill stem with a threadless headset! I did this recently with a threaded 
> fork having a vry long steerer in order to get my handlebars higher. 
> Happy to provide ics later if that would be helpful.
> -Wes
>
> On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 12:22:21 PM UTC-8 h...@chrisdedinsky.com 
> wrote:
>
>> This week I was commuting home from work on my Heron. I got a flat on my 
>> Challenge Strada Bianca 36 tires and on a whim—certainly inspired by the 
>> recent 'Rondini' episode of Ron's bikes YouTube episode—decided to stuff in 
>> a pair of much too large 700x42 Hurricane Ridge tires to enjoy until the 
>> snow falls. Which should be pretty quick here in British Columbia's 
>> southern interior.
>>
>> The fork clearance is decidedly too tight and perhaps irresponsible, if 
>> not dangerous. I'm gonna keep my fenders on as I'm not sure how long this 
>> experiment will last. So far a couple of sporting trips back and forth to 
>> work. 
>>
>> It has got me thinking though, has anyone out there modified their Heron 
>> to have more modern Riv tire clearances? In the vein of a Sam Hillborne. I 
>> was daydreaming about putting a more tolerable fork and crimping the 
>> chainstays, so I could run up in the +45 range. Although the rear wheel has 
>> much more than a few sheets of paper in clearance and the irrevesability of 
>> crimping makes me nervous. 
>>
>> Would love to hear any thoughts on the pro's/con's. And if there are any 
>> extra hillborne forks out there for a ~57 frame, I may be interested. If 
>> so, I can give specs. I know I should leave a perfectly wonderful frameset 
>> alone, but I can't help but wonder about it. 
>>
>> Here are some pics that make the fit seem even more dramatic on that 
>> front fork. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_4368.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_4363.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_4364.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_4365.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_4366.jpg]
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Hillborne fork on a Heron?

[Chris Dedinsky]

Wow - that's really generous Ted, thank you kindly. I'll let you know how 
things proceed. Smart advice about paying attention to the axle/bearing 
seat distance and to the rake. I should take stock and note that a new fork 
won't necessarily be plug-and-play. No matter how much I would like that to 
be the case. 

On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 7:49:37 AM UTC-8 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 2:22:21 PM UTC-6 h...@chrisdedinsky.com 
> wrote:
>
> This week I was commuting home from work on my Heron. I got a flat on my 
> Challenge Strada Bianca 36 tires and on a whim—certainly inspired by the 
> recent 'Rondini' episode of Ron's bikes YouTube episode—decided to stuff in 
> a pair of much too large 700x42 Hurricane Ridge tires to enjoy until the 
> snow falls. 
>
>
> Yeah, the 40mm internal width of the original Heron fork crown puts an 
> unfortunate limit on tire size. For my ST-22 I requested that fork crown 
> because I wanted the round blades, as I was essentially trying to make a 
> Heron Road with a bit more clearance and fork rake. I have 45mm fenders and 
> 32mm tires on that bike, and the clearances are pretty tight. On the 
> Touring frame we added more vertical clearance, and that gets you only so 
> much additional horizontal clearance.   
>
> When looking at swapping forks, pay close attention to the distance from 
> the axle to the top of the bearing seat. If that is significantly different 
> from the original, you'll change the head tube angle and therefore the 
> steering geometry. Also, of course, the amount of fork rake will affect 
> steering. I have the all the original Heron shop drawings, but they're in 
> storage. Let me know if you want any specific dimensions.
>
> Ted Durant
>

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[RBW] Re: Bag options on an Albastache bar?

[Chris Dedinsky]

This is tangental to a Ron's Chest, but I saw this image in a Craigslist ad 
and took a screengrab cause I thought it looked good with the Albastache 
bars:
[image: 00I0I_eIxUWD3gGlz_0t20CI_600x450.jpeg]


On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 8:22:12 AM UTC-8 modemm...@gmail.com wrote:

> So I'm wondering what my options are for bags on an Albastache setup. I 
> currently have a Mark's rack with an Acorn Bags boxy Random, but I'd rather 
> run something like a Ron's Bikes Fabio's Chest. Has anyone done this? Is it 
> possible?!?!? :)

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[RBW] Re: Hillborne fork on a Heron?

[Chris Dedinsky]

That's very nice - I like the sloping fork crown on there and was a good 
idea to have Waterford put one together for you when you did. 

On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 1:14:19 PM UTC-8 CJ wrote:

> I didn't care for the original fork on my Heron Touring, so I contacted 
> Todd Kuzma somewhere around 2001 and he had Waterford make me a new fork 
> using their "Adventure Bike" fork crown. Attached is the only pic I have 
> handy at the moment. Tire clearance isn't huge, but it's somewhat better 
> than stock. My bike is limited to an ~38mm tire at the chainstays, so I 
> never tried going wider than that.
>
> CJ
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 3:22:21 PM UTC-5 h...@chrisdedinsky.com 
> wrote:
>
>> This week I was commuting home from work on my Heron. I got a flat on my 
>> Challenge Strada Bianca 36 tires and on a whim—certainly inspired by the 
>> recent 'Rondini' episode of Ron's bikes YouTube episode—decided to stuff in 
>> a pair of much too large 700x42 Hurricane Ridge tires to enjoy until the 
>> snow falls. Which should be pretty quick here in British Columbia's 
>> southern interior.
>>
>> The fork clearance is decidedly too tight and perhaps irresponsible, if 
>> not dangerous. I'm gonna keep my fenders on as I'm not sure how long this 
>> experiment will last. So far a couple of sporting trips back and forth to 
>> work. 
>>
>> It has got me thinking though, has anyone out there modified their Heron 
>> to have more modern Riv tire clearances? In the vein of a Sam Hillborne. I 
>> was daydreaming about putting a more tolerable fork and crimping the 
>> chainstays, so I could run up in the +45 range. Although the rear wheel has 
>> much more than a few sheets of paper in clearance and the irrevesability of 
>> crimping makes me nervous. 
>>
>> Would love to hear any thoughts on the pro's/con's. And if there are any 
>> extra hillborne forks out there for a ~57 frame, I may be interested. If 
>> so, I can give specs. I know I should leave a perfectly wonderful frameset 
>> alone, but I can't help but wonder about it. 
>>
>> Here are some pics that make the fit seem even more dramatic on that 
>> front fork. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_4368.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_4363.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_4364.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_4365.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_4366.jpg]
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2023

[Chris Dedinsky]

Anybody know more details about this Hunq: 
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/7682361768.html?lang=fr=ca

On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 8:58:27 AM UTC-7 Drew Henson wrote:

> I had the chance to buy that legolas and I just don't have the funds to 
> pull it off right now. whoever gets it please show us that eventual build!
>
> On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:32:40 PM UTC-7 mmille...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Pretty Legolas frame over at Crust Trader. 
>> https://crustbikes.com/a/shopicial/topics/179172
>> Matt in STL
>>
>> On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:45:45 PM UTC-5 RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>>
>>> 59cm Legolas over on internet-BOB.  $400, with a backstory.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:09 PM UTC-7 jerry...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Rivendell SimpleOne Frame 60 cm w/Fork And Headset (not mine, nor 
 seller known to me)

 $425 plus shipping - or Best Offer


 [image: Riv-ebay.jpg]

 On Thursday, 19 October 2023 at 11:51:08 UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
 wrote:

> I know that seller. He’s a good man and I hope he finds an equally 
> nice buyer.
>
> On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 2:14:30 PM UTC-4 greenteadrinkers 
> wrote:
>
>> Nice NOS Hunqapillar frame set:
>>
>>
>> https://lansing.craigslist.org/bik/d/okemos-rivendell-hunqapillar-frameset/7678319217.html
>>
>> On Monday, October 16, 2023 at 11:23:35 AM UTC-4 RBW Owners Bunch 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rosco Bubbe
>>> 58cm
>>> eBay auction
>>> Lake Linden, MI
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/335072976787
>>>
>>> [image: roscobubbe.jpg]
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What shoes does your Riv wear?

[Chris L]

*" felt like the front just flipped over on itself"*

That's a good description for what mine feels like.  I also notice they get 
really loud on sharp turns/curves when the tire is inflated to the psi that 
causes the bad handling.  The front tire doesn't do that when it's aired up 
very hard, but that largely negates the benefit of having a fat, supple 
tire.  I could run Big Apples at a much lower pressure and get the cushion 
effect without the squirrely front end handling, but they are just so heavy 
and both had a wobble in them, from the day I got them.  Not the first 
Schwalbe tires I've owned that wobbled, so I'm wary of the entire brand, 
now. 

On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 10:44:23 PM UTC-5 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> That squirrelly feeling is another thing I noticed with the Naches Pass on 
> my Surly. It was actually the cause of a crash I had on that bike. Front 
> end got all squirrelly on me mid corner and it felt like the front just 
> flipped over on itself... I always attributed it to having stretched out 
> the fit on a too-small frame (I’m 6’1” and bought a 54cm Long Haul Trucker 
> to be able to have it in 26” wheels) and the us having shifted my center of 
> gravity too far off the where the frame intended but having now heard a 
> couple people here mention the feeling on the same slick tires, I’m 
> wondering if it’s not the tires on more “touring” geometry frames, that 
> pneumatic vs geometric trail thing that was mentioned earlier. Very 
> interesting indeed!
>
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 5:42 PM Chris L  wrote:
>
>> RH Antelope Hill in the Endurance casing on my 54cm Hunqapillar.  I'm a 
>> heavier rider and have to inflate the front to the max of 55 psi to keep it 
>> from feeling squirrely in turns and even then, it sometimes feels off.  Jan 
>> has talked about the effect of psi on cornering with supple tires and that 
>> it's more pronounced with wider tires, so I may try the 48's or even 44's, 
>> next.  
>>
>> I need to get an updated photo with the black grips.  Looks SO MUCH 
>> better than the clear ones.  
>>
>> [image: 54 Hunqapillar.jpg]
>>
>> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 9:16:53 PM UTC-5 DavidP wrote:
>>
>>> Paul - From 
>>> https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/supple-vitesse-ex-700c-clincher-tire,
>>>  
>>> original SV sizes were 23, 28, 33, 38, and 42. My interpretation is that 
>>> Soma is continuing to make the 42mm SV and the statement you quoted should 
>>> be read as the available sizes are now 28c to 42c, (23c no longer being 
>>> made).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> -Dave
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 9:06:07 PM UTC-4 Paul in Dallas wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm running Soma Supple Vitesse EX in the 700 x 42 on my Sam Hillborne 
>>>> and like them a lot.
>>>>
>>>> I think 380 g's for that size tire is not bad and the price is good.
>>>>
>>>> I just saw on the Soma site they are no longer making that size. Here's 
>>>> their verbiage.
>>>> (Sizes: 28c to 42c 23c (no longer made)
>>>>
>>>> I haven't had any flats yet on them after around 300 to 400 miles.
>>>>
>>>> In my area I'm always dodging glass.
>>>>
>>>> I can't figure the mindset of the goofballs that through glass out on 
>>>> the pavement.
>>>> Makes me want to cuss. Well, I do if I roll over it.
>>>>
>>>> Someone else mentioned the Continental Contact Speed tires.
>>>> I used them on other bikes in a 26" and 700c size and liked them.
>>>> I guess they are discontinued now or at least hard to find. They wore 
>>>> very well for me.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the Continental Contact Urban took over that spot.
>>>>
>>>> I'm running the Contact Urban on bikes in a 26 x 2.20 and a 700c x 42 
>>>> and they roll really well.
>>>> No flats after several hundred miles.
>>>>
>>>> I only run with inner tubes in all my bikes ... haven't tried tubeless 
>>>> yet.
>>>>
>>>> This rolling resistance review guy gave them pretty good marks and a 
>>>> highly recommend status.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews/continental-contact-urban
>>>>
>>>> Paul in Dallas 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Chris L]

I had the same issue and fixed it by going back to Deore V-brakes.  Haven't 
had a single issue with brake squeal since. 

On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 7:54:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I bought Paul brakes for my Atlantis and initially loved them. Now, 
> however, they squawk like a stuck goose. I’ve cleaned the rims, sanded the 
> pads but with no success. They were installed by a bike shop so I don’t 
> think that’s the problem. It’s embarrassing to ride at times. I’m looking 
> for suggestions to ease the noise. Thanks in advance. Bill
>
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:
>
>> I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased 
>> used off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how 
>> easy it is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel 
>> removal and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full 
>> retail they were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't regret 
>> my purchases at all.
>>
>> Bill S
>> San Diego
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Paul brakes are worth it. 
>>>
>>> If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for 
>>> close to what you paid!
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:
>>>
 PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
 They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, as 
 opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.


 Jay

 Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>


 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:

> "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me 
> back to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in hilly 
> and mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with moderate 
> loads (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than 
> ol' 
> fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and 
> modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop 
> just fine w'cable brakes.  
>
> Jay
>
> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore  
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, good to know.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock 
>>> on new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on 
>>> the 
>>> road but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable 
>>> Pauls. 
>>> Your results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
 Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
 just 
 talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
 would 
 be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.

 The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
 philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
> woot!). 
>

> Philip 
> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>
 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
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>> 

[RBW] Re: Ride Report + Film photos

[Chris Manke]

Wonderful shots! I also have had many rides cut short due to wildfire smoke 
here in Canada. This summer has been one of the worst on record! It seems 
like this fall I will have to get most of my riding done. 
I hope you are able to get out again when its less smokey!

On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 5:39:53 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote:

> Thanks Jamin and John! Also appreciate your recent ride report John, and 
> feeling envious of all those swimming holes.
>
> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 11:40:20 AM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:
>
>> Sorry to hear your ride was cut short, especially since your bike looks 
>> perfectly set for a long, comfortable ride. Very nice! I really love that 
>> last photo of the reservoir's edge. Makes me want to walk that lip to its 
>> end. Thanks for sharing these.
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 7:49:24 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Want to share some film photos from a recent bikepacking (mis)adventure. 
>>> I departed from brooklyn, ny early June with the intention of getting to 
>>> poultney, VT for the analog 4x4 ride in about 4 days. Due to bad luck, this 
>>> was right when canadian wildfire smoke rolled in super heavily to ny. By 
>>> the evening of my first day the smoke was pretty thick, and on day 2 it was 
>>> so intense that you couldn't see across the hudson. After sleeping out in 
>>> that mess I was feeling pretty unwell on day 2 and decided to ditch the 
>>> ride, head to the metro north in Beacon and get home. 
>>>
>>> Despite the disappointment, I really enjoyed that first day of riding 
>>> and had a nice little overnighter adventure. My route followed the old 
>>> croton aqueduct trail north from the city, cut through peekskill and 
>>> finished up high in Fahnestock state park. 
>>>
>>> I'm new to film, using a rollei 35 led with fuji 400 color, slowly 
>>> figuring it out. Each roll I get developed there are happy surprises and 
>>> let downs, but I like how it makes me more intentional than using a phone 
>>> camera. Didn't take as many photos as I could've, these are mostly from the 
>>> OCA and finish off at the reservoir itself which was quite impressive.
>>>
>>> [image: 14990001.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: 14990002.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: 14990003.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: 14990004.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: 14990007.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: 14990008.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: 14990009.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: 14990010.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: 14990011.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: 14990012.jpg]
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Thinking about Roadini

[Chris Fly]

This, for me, is a great wrap-up.. had a couple Rivs, have my Dad's AHH now 
that I will never part with.. as much as I love the marketing and look of a 
Roadini, just not sure it's the right bike for what it appears to be.. they 
do look great though! 

Chris 

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 6:44:32 AM UTC-7 Tim Bantham wrote:

> I'm going to share my opinion on this but it is just thatmy opinion. 
> With that caveat in mind here is how I arrived at the conclusion not to buy 
> a Roadini. My first Rivendell, a Sam Hillborne, is now my only Riv in the 
> current stable. This is my absolute favorite bike in the world. I have done 
> so much on this bike that it is now part of my life story. It was my first 
> entry into the "Just Ride" mentality. It broke me out of the mold and 
> allowed me to experience the joy of being an Unracer. I've configured it 
> multiple ways. I've camped with it, I've climbed some of the toughest 
> mountain in Vermont with it, I've explored some of the best gravel roads 
> the Northeast has to offer. It has done everything well and has never let 
> me down. However, in my experience the one thing the Sam does not do well 
> is to hang with the fast guys on my weekend group ride. The bike is simply 
> not optimized for that. All of that said, I have never loved a bike. more 
> then I love my Sam Hillborne. I will never part with it. 
>
> When I first saw the photos of the Sergio's green Roadini Riv's marketing 
> strategy worked exactly as it was designed to do. Convince me that I needed 
> to have one. I have other bikes that do not fit the Rivendell ethos. I have 
> a carbon fiber road bike with carbon wheels, hydraulic disc brakes and 
> electronic shifting. The antithesis of what Riv promotes. Yet this bike 
> still has its purpose that suits my riding needs/desires.  If I want to go 
> ride with my fellow middle age men in Lycra on a weekend go fast ride I'm 
> going to take the carbon bike. I want this bike in my stable but there is 
> no soulful connection to this carbon machine.  Nothing like my love for the 
> Sam.  
>
> The Roadini was going to scratch an itch that I had to build up a classic 
> steel frame with rim brakes and mechanical brifters. I wanted Campagnolo 
> parts because I've never owned a bike with Campy. The vision I had for the 
> Roadini was to take it on my weekend group ride with my fellow MAMIL 
> friends. Sure I could have done this on a Roadini but I question if I would 
> have been happy with it.  I had doubts that the geometry would be too 
> upright and the chainstays too long. I simply had a hunch that a Roadini 
> would not meet my expectation of having the snappy road feel that I look 
> for in a bike like this. I was afraid it would feel dull and sluggish. 
>
> Everyone's needs will be different. I've had a Appaloosa and a Clem H. 
> Regret selling the Appaloosa all the time but don't regret letting going of 
> the Clem H. 
>
> A Roadini would be a great bike for someone under the right circumstances. 
> Compared to anything that Surly makes I'd say it would be a marked 
> improvement. 
>
> As for me I ultimately bought a used steel Serotta frame in mint condition 
> that I will build up with Campy parts. I will scratch the itch that I had 
> for a classic rim brake road bike with mechanical shifting but this time it 
> won't be another Riv. 
>
>
> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 9:03:15 AM UTC-4 Davey Two Shoes wrote:
>
>> Have you considered anything from Crust? I too am interested in a Roadini 
>> (Although I dont plan to get one since I just built a Sam and have a 
>> Waterford) but I wonder if the Riv philosophy and tubing really is the best 
>> choice for a light feeling road bike. Mostly I'm refrrring to the tubing.
>>
>> My Sam is probably my favorite bike I've owned.
>>
>> On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 1:49:40 AM UTC-4 R. Scott Lake wrote:
>>
>>> Intrigued by the Roadini release tomorrow.
>>>
>>>
>>>- Current stable is 61cm Cheviot for commutes, groceries- my 
>>>favorite ride.
>>>- I have.a relatively new 58 Surly Straggler that I am using as my 
>>>road bike.
>>>- Has always felt a bit aggressive. Get a little sore and numb after 
>>>a while.
>>>- 90% of my riding is on flat, SC Lowcountry roads- 10-20 miles at a 
>>>clip.
>>>- 55 years old. PBH=89, 6' 175#
>>>
>>>
>>> Question is whether I will notice a large comfort difference in Roadini 
>>> compared to current Straggler.
>>>
>>> Wish I could do a test ride.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Asheville Riv Rendesvous Recap

[Chris Clodfelter]

Looks like it was a great get together.

On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 8:31:50 AM UTC-5 Gary L wrote:

> Just a quick recap from our fantastic Riv weekend in Asheville.
>
> It was a blast. Almost 25 riders from Indiana to FL, including 10 local 
> folks. Everyone was great and the bikes were, as you can imagine, almost 
> all rivs, but we did let in a bridgestone :).  A Hunq, 5 Appaloosas, a 
> couple of Atlanti, 3 or 4 gorgeous customs, the famous Betty Foy ridden 
> 72.000 miles by Pam (yes 72K!), a purple Rosco Platypus, a pumpkin 
> platypus, a couple of Sams, and two Salukis, a Gus, and probably some more 
> that I'm forgetting.
>
> Some highlights:
> The River Arts District greenway ride followed by beer and dinner at New 
> Belgium Brewing, where our bikes took up and spilled over the entire bike 
> rack system.
>
> Our Bent Creek Gravel rides - three groups had a splendid day with not too 
> hot temps, no rain, and perfect fire roads.
>
> Two friendly bears who realized they were in the poster and better make an 
> appearance.
>
> Our bike parts garage sale, where everyone realized that we were all 
> trying to get rid of lots of tires, stems, handlebars, bags, etc. that 
> everyone else there already had. We all have a bike parts hoarding problem.
>
> Beer and dinner at The Wedge brewery Saturday night.
>
> The fabulous poster from Brian.
>
> All of the fun people that came together with amazing bikes, great 
> personalities, and brought all of their fun to the weekend.
>
> Enthusiastic agreement that we should do it all again, maybe in during a 
> fall or spring timeframe.
>
> And thanks to a very gracious offer from Leah, she put our pics and videos 
> together into one of her great videos - THANK YOU, LEAH!  A link to her 
> video is below if you'd like to watch it.
>
> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0xG1CvrSGHQ6um
>

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Re: [RBW] 650b Gravel Bikes?

[Chris L]

Because I prefer really wide tires and no toe overlap, I would prefer 650B 
for my bike.  I looked into having disk tabs added to my Hunqapillar and I 
could buy a different (non-RIV, of course) frameset for what that 
modification would cost, and that's not including paint.  I could have them 
chop off the canti studs and install new ones for 650B, but I would rather 
not do that.  

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 8:58:10 AM UTC-5 john...@gmail.com wrote:

> My 'gravel bike' is a Rivendell Atlantis with 650B wheels. It is a 2018 
> model I think, which has long chainstays but a shortish top tube
> that allows for drop bars. There was a choice between 650B and 700c in 
> that size in that year. The bike rides really nicely on a variety of 
> unpaved surfaces, and descends fantastically well. I currently run 50mm 
> tyres with fenders, but I have some 57mm G-ones that I might try some time 
> without fenders.
>
> Cheers,
> Johnny in Belgium
>
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 04:02:50 UTC+2 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> I looked to 650B as a solution to my particular fit issues for an all 
>> road bike the other year. Grant was very frame size dependent in his 
>> support of 650B and felt that above a certain size (several below mine) the 
>> utility of the wheel size ended its utility. Those considerations are fair 
>> for stock geometry. 
>>
>> The problem for me and my ideal under square (2-3cm) frame dimensioning 
>> is that I get into toe overlap with 700c wheels with fatter tires. I wanted 
>> broader capacity for rougher road riding and load carrying so 650B was my 
>> way to go. I still would rather ride smarter than fasteron unpaved surfaces 
>> and 650Bx42 has provided all the envelope I need without tapping my Walter 
>> Mitty thoughts.
>>
>> I made many purchases and gone down bicycle and equipment rabbit holes 
>> chasing more "performance" only to find out the lease expensive component 
>> of my bike is where the greatest capacity to upgrade resides...me. 
>>
>> I had my 650B bike built and ride it hundreds of miles off pavement, with 
>> fenders, on RH Babyshoe Pass tires set up tubeless on Pacenti Brevet rims, 
>> three years so far without reason to look back or second guess the formula. 
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>> On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 8:03:47 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t know about a bike dedicated to 650B in all sizes but some 
>>> smaller Rivs come as a 650B and the Susie is 650B… but what is a gravel 
>>> bike, after all, but a bike ridden on gravel or hard-pack dirt roads? I 
>>> would classify most of the bikes made by Riv as gravel or gravel adjacent. 
>>> They’ve almost all got generous tire clearance. The only thing modern 
>>> gravel bikes have that Rivs lack are expensive electronics and disc brakes, 
>>> really…
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 1, 2023 at 4:47 PM George Schick  wrote:
>>>
 There has been a lot of discussion about "gravel bikes" on this blog 
 lately, but has there been any consideration given to a 650B gravel bike, 
 so to speak?  IOW, are there any bikes set up like a 650B and with 
 available "gravel accommodating" tires available?  Maybe I've missed 
 something in the discussion threads, but I can't recall seeing this.

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 .

>>> -- 
>>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Atlantis touch up paint?

[Chris Balaschak]

Anyone have a bottle of Testors 2135 they would be willing to part with? 
Can't seem to find any available - if you've got a source, let me know!

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[RBW] Re: Max tire size on Bleriot?

[Chris Dedinsky]

Ok - appreciate your confirmation of the 48s fitting in there comfortably!

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 10:41:49 AM UTC-7 tob...@gmail.com wrote:

> I run 650bx48 Ultradynamicos on Velocity Synergy rims with paul racers on 
> my Bleriot. While I wouldn't go any bigger on the tires, the 48s fit fine. 
> If you want to run fenders, 42s would be better.
>
> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:06:56 AM UTC-7 h...@chrisdedinsky.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings gang,
>>
>> Wondering if any of ya'll have run ~650bx47ish tires on your Bleriot and 
>> what kind of clearance that leaves you with (granted this is rim dependent, 
>> in part). I've seen some images online with folks running Paul Racers and 
>> Ultradynamico Rose (650bx47.99) and Gravelkings (650bx48). Would love to 
>> hear any insight/experience.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>

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[RBW] Max tire size on Bleriot?

[Chris Dedinsky]

Greetings gang,

Wondering if any of ya'll have run ~650bx47ish tires on your Bleriot and 
what kind of clearance that leaves you with (granted this is rim dependent, 
in part). I've seen some images online with folks running Paul Racers and 
Ultradynamico Rose (650bx47.99) and Gravelkings (650bx48). Would love to 
hear any insight/experience.

Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: Los Angeles Riv Ride

[Chris Buzzini]

I'm interested. If the date happens to fall in the second half of the
month, I'll do my best to be there! First one was a great time. Thanks
again to Houston and everyone who came out.

On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 9:42 AM Keith Paugh  wrote:

> Definitely!
> I was just thinking we should do this again this summer.
> I've met some new, not-on-the-google-group L.A. Riv riders to add to the
> mix this next time too.
> k.
>
> On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 6:41 AM Bryce Dwyer  wrote:
>
>> I am! Saturday mornings are best for me but can swing a Friday now and
>> then. There’s also July 3rd, a Monday that se folks may have off.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 10:13 PM Tony Lockhart 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anybody available for a group ride in July?
>>>
>>> @Houston - Thanks for sharing the folder with photos.
>>> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 5:08:28 PM UTC-7 tellyoutoday wrote:
>>>
>>>> This was a great time, thanks for putting it together, Houston. Really
>>>> nice meeting everyone!
>>>>
>>>> Neale
>>>> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 2:37:54 PM UTC-7 Keith P. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So sorry to have missed this!
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like it was a hoot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let plan another ride soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> k.
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 28, 2023, at 10:26 AM, Ben Adrian  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Super fun!
>>>>>
>>>>> A good pile of Rivs. A number of other cool bikes. Even two e-bikes.
>>>>> Great conversation, everyone was super positive. Total type 1 fun.
>>>>>
>>>>> See you all at the next one!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 9:28:47 PM UTC-7 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Great photos! I’ll definitely be at the next one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 7:08:04 PM UTC-7 mma...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was really nice meeting everyone today. Thanks for putting this
>>>>>>> together, Houston! -Matt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [image: 52930629896_37f8dac6c8_k.jpg]
>>>>>>> [image: 52931014820_aa47186b7d_k.jpg]
>>>>>>> [image: 52931069163_9fa788d6e4_k.jpg]
>>>>>>> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 8:27:54 AM UTC-7 chris@gmail.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same here, see you all in a bit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 27, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Bryce Dwyer 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all — on my way but will likely arrive right at 9:00
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 9:56:23 AM UTC-7 Houston Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm looking forward to seeing y'all this Saturday at Griffith for
>>>>>>>>> our LA Riv meet-up! All riders are welcome, Riv bike owners or not.
>>>>>>>>> Originally, the meet-up was for 8 AM, but I want to push it back an 
>>>>>>>>> hour to
>>>>>>>>> start in some warmer weather. If anyone isn't cool with this, we can 
>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>> go back to the og time, just LMK.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *As a reminder, here are the details:*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When: 9 AM
>>>>>>>>> Where: Franklin's Cafe across from the Greek at 2650 N Vermont
>>>>>>>>> Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90027
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2650+N+Vermont+Ave,+Los+Angeles,+CA+90027?entry=gmail=g>
>>>>>>>>> Route: Loop around Vista del Valle to the Observatory around 10 mi
>>>>>>>>> with 1k ft. of climbing
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Optional Extras: If people want, we can throw in a pie stop at
>>>>>>>>> House of

Re: [RBW] Re: Los Angeles Riv Ride

[chris . buzzini]

Same here, see you all in a bit. Sent from my iPhoneOn May 27, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Bryce Dwyer  wrote:Hi all — on my way but will likely arrive right at 9:00On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 9:56:23 AM UTC-7 Houston Wilson wrote:Hi everyone,I'm looking forward to seeing y'all this Saturday at Griffith for our LA Riv meet-up! All riders are welcome, Riv bike owners or not. Originally, the meet-up was for 8 AM, but I want to push it back an hour to start in some warmer weather. If anyone isn't cool with this, we can always go back to the og time, just LMK.As a reminder, here are the details:When: 9 AM Where: Franklin's Cafe across from the Greek at 2650 N Vermont Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90027Route: Loop around Vista del Valle to the Observatory around 10 mi with 1k ft. of climbingOptional Extras: If people want, we can throw in a pie stop at House of Pies after the Observatory &/or add on the Hollywood Sign climb for folks who want to do some more climbing!-HoustonOn Friday, April 28, 2023 at 3:55:01 PM UTC-7 dwyer...@gmail.com wrote:I'm planning on attending as well. Also thinking about the "single scoop" for the LA Invitational. On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 2:04 PM David Person  wrote:I've marked my calendar.On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:49 AM UTC-7 Houston Wilson wrote:On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 7:56:40 AM UTC-7 Houston Wilson wrote:Hi y'all,Thank you for all of your feedback/responses! It's looking like May 27th has the highest level of availability! We can always adjust specifics closer to the date, but for now let's keep the morning/afternoon of the 27th open. As a tentative plan, let's meet at Franklin's Cafe across from the Greek at 8 am. Isaac and Matt, I'm gonna try to make it out to the Cub House that weekend...it looks so sick! So excited to meet everyone! -HoustonOn Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 7:48:04 AM UTC-7 mma...@gmail.com wrote:Valley head checking in; I can't commit to any May dates but wanted rep the set.For awareness, Isaac is talking about the 2023 Los Angeles Invitational (Everyone's invited) 5/20 - 5/21. John Prolly's write 2022 write-up: A Weekend at The Cub House’s 2022 LA InvitationalI signed up for the 55 mile ride on Saturday and reserved a spot at the swap. It's a great event and everyone is super nice. The swap is really good too because sellers usually have interesting or high end items.-MattOn Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 9:14:29 PM UTC-7 Tony Lockhart wrote:@isaac -- The Cub House events are right around the corner from meexcellent bike shop. And their community events are a blast. Definitely a great opportunity for a Pasadena ride especially since there are a ton of good coffee shops in the area.@bryce -- Yep, that was orange Sam at Palomares Adobe. What a great location. My daughter and I were attending the 626 event and happened upon the grounds. Will definitely go back there with the rest of the family in the future. BTW, your Atlantis looks dialed in. Really love the handlebar setup, and will probably go that route once the Roaduno frames come out.On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 2:03:38 PM UTC-7 cycli...@gmail.com wrote:Griffith Park would be doable for me 20th or 27th. David Black & Tan SamThousand OaksOn Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:54:53 AM UTC-7 dwyer...@gmail.com wrote:Hi all –– Atlantis rider in the Pomona Valley here. I could likely make the 20th or the 27th, with a preference for the 27th.Tony: I think that was my Atlantis you saw! I'd guess that was your parked orange Riv at the Palomares Adobe that I saw too. What a coincidence!The Mt. Hollywood route is definitely a climb but it has some great payoff! I usually just take a break or two on my way up.On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 9:00:35 PM UTC-7 Tony Lockhart wrote:I can make it on the 13th or 27th. Also, I teach for a living so the schedule's wide open during the summer.On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 10:21:18 AM UTC-7 Keith P. wrote:I am available on the 13th, but might be flexible on the 20thk.On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:35 AM, Brian Cunningham  wrote:Of those 3 dates, I’m only available on the 27th, but my tricky schedule is not everyone else’s problem. I’ll join you if that ends up being the best date for all parties involved.Brian Sent from my iPhoneOn Apr 25, 2023, at 8:10 AM, Houston Wilson  wrote:Yay, I'm loving hearing from y'all!1. Anyone have a preference for May 13th, 20th, or 27th?2. Regarding the route, it seems like most folks are out east, so Griffith seems like the best option. Ted D.--point taken about Griffith + Hollywood sign not being very chill. So, probably best to just stick to griffith, but if anyone wants to ride to the Hollywood sign after, I'd be super down! So, I'm thinking meet by the Greek and do a little loop up to Vista del Valle and around to the Observatory. This would be about 8 mi with ~1000 ft. of elevation. I don't ride in griffith a ton, so if anyone has route suggestions/food spots to hit up 

[RBW] Re: FS / WTT - Nitto R10 for Nitto Campee R20

[Chris Copeland]

Bump

On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 11:47:34 AM UTC-7 Chris Copeland wrote:

> Hi all, I've got a Nitto R10 bag support that has some signs of use. 
> Really enjoyed using this as a large saddle bag support/rest. However, I 
> want to be able to run a pannier on the Bassi Hog's Back this is mounted 
> on. If you're interested in the R10, great! Here's the link so you can see 
> a photo. 
> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bop/d/seattle-nitto-r10/7615851017.html
>
> If you're interested in a trade, lets talk! thanks, hope something can 
> work out
>
> -Chris
> Seattle
>

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Re: [RBW] forthcoming Hillibike "combo" predictions?

[Chris L]

The Hunqapillar does have a certain forbidden fruit mystique.  I don't 
think I've heard any other Riv model mentioned as often in the context of 
wishing it would come back.   

For me, the ultimate Riv would have been a 54 or 55 cm, 650b, single 
top-tube Bombadil.  I remember the 52 would have been my size, and too 
small, and the next largest size was way too big, and probably 700c, to 
boot.  I still may 650b my 54 Hunqapillar some day.  I'm guessing it 
wouldn't be hard to mostly hide disk brake tabs in elephant gray paint.

On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 8:03:24 PM UTC-5 Michael Baquerizo wrote:

> *If they didn't make major changes to the Hunqapillar, a newer version 
> would just be an Appaloosa.*
>
> this is what i tell myself all the time. always wanted a hunq, but ended 
> up with an appa. i used to hate the long chain stays and i still *prefer *the 
> hunq, but I i really like my appaloosa.
>
>
> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 8:39:49 PM UTC-4 Chris L wrote:
>
>> RBW have stated at least once that the Hunqapillar will come back, but in 
>> a different form.  I hope that's what is coming in October.  
>>
>> If they didn't make major changes to the Hunqapillar, a newer version 
>> would just be an Appaloosa.  Other than longer chainstays and probably 
>> heavier tubes, the Appaloosa is very, very similar to the old Hunqapillar, 
>> at least in the mid-sizes (ie, 54 Hunq, 55 Appaloosa).   I would love to 
>> ride my 54 Hunqapillar and the closest to the same size Appaloosa, back to 
>> back, to see how much difference the longer chainstays make.  
>>
>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 7:27:36 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Two biggest differences (in my opinion) between a Clem L and either a 
>>> Gus or Susie; the latter are not step through frames & they both have a 
>>> significantly higher bottom bracket than the Clem. I think the Clem is 
>>> accurately described as a “Hillibike”. Gus & Susie are legit mountain 
>>> bikes. Love them both!
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 15, 2023, at 8:10 PM, ssimarsawhney  wrote:
>>>
>>> My guess would have been 1in threaded with thicker tubing, which feels 
>>> like a clem. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Can someone speak a bit more about the differences between the two? 
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 4:44:08 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't think anyone said Susie and Clem are alike, we said Clem L 
>>>> covers the same territory. Gus is more specifically its own thing, there's 
>>>> no other Riv in the category. 
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:59:28 PM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Owning both a Susie and a Clem, I do agree with Garth that they are 
>>>>> almost nothing alike.  On the other hand, I guess I don't see as much 
>>>>> distinction between the Susie and the Gus as some do, and think of them 
>>>>> as 
>>>>> interchangeable.  Just slightly clunkier and stiffer tubing on one.  
>>>>> Assuming it will still have the not-quite-step-through swoopy top tube 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> that lugs could be shared with Charlie, it would be hard  to Imagine 
>>>>> Rivendell having a new set made for 1 1/8" threadless headtubes and 
>>>>> larger 
>>>>> diameter downtubes, but who knows.  It sounds like the scare of losing a 
>>>>> lug supplier has receded for now, too.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 4:24:58 PM UTC-6 Andrew Letton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The one feature that I see the Gus/Susie just begging for is a set of 
>>>>>> triple bottle bosses on the *rear* side of the seat tube. With those 
>>>>>> long chainstays, it seems the perfect place for another big (1 - 2 
>>>>>> liter) 
>>>>>> waterbottle for those of us in hot, dry locations.
>>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>> Andrew in Sydney
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 02:35:56 AM GMT+10, Brian Turner <
>>>>>> brok...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone know anything specific about this new Hillibike iteration 
>>>>>> scheduled for October? Care to make any speculations or predictions? 
>>>>>> According to the latest Riv IG post, it only says "lugged, green and 

Re: [RBW] forthcoming Hillibike "combo" predictions?

[Chris L]

RBW have stated at least once that the Hunqapillar will come back, but in a 
different form.  I hope that's what is coming in October.  

If they didn't make major changes to the Hunqapillar, a newer version would 
just be an Appaloosa.  Other than longer chainstays and probably heavier 
tubes, the Appaloosa is very, very similar to the old Hunqapillar, at least 
in the mid-sizes (ie, 54 Hunq, 55 Appaloosa).   I would love to ride my 54 
Hunqapillar and the closest to the same size Appaloosa, back to back, to 
see how much difference the longer chainstays make.  

On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 7:27:36 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Two biggest differences (in my opinion) between a Clem L and either a Gus 
> or Susie; the latter are not step through frames & they both have a 
> significantly higher bottom bracket than the Clem. I think the Clem is 
> accurately described as a “Hillibike”. Gus & Susie are legit mountain 
> bikes. Love them both!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 15, 2023, at 8:10 PM, ssimarsawhney  wrote:
>
> My guess would have been 1in threaded with thicker tubing, which feels 
> like a clem. 
>
>
> Can someone speak a bit more about the differences between the two? 
>
> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 4:44:08 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I don't think anyone said Susie and Clem are alike, we said Clem L covers 
>> the same territory. Gus is more specifically its own thing, there's no 
>> other Riv in the category. 
>>
>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:59:28 PM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> Owning both a Susie and a Clem, I do agree with Garth that they are 
>>> almost nothing alike.  On the other hand, I guess I don't see as much 
>>> distinction between the Susie and the Gus as some do, and think of them as 
>>> interchangeable.  Just slightly clunkier and stiffer tubing on one.  
>>> Assuming it will still have the not-quite-step-through swoopy top tube and 
>>> that lugs could be shared with Charlie, it would be hard  to Imagine 
>>> Rivendell having a new set made for 1 1/8" threadless headtubes and larger 
>>> diameter downtubes, but who knows.  It sounds like the scare of losing a 
>>> lug supplier has receded for now, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 4:24:58 PM UTC-6 Andrew Letton wrote:
>>>
 The one feature that I see the Gus/Susie just begging for is a set of 
 triple bottle bosses on the *rear* side of the seat tube. With those 
 long chainstays, it seems the perfect place for another big (1 - 2 liter) 
 waterbottle for those of us in hot, dry locations.
 cheers,
 Andrew in Sydney

 On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 02:35:56 AM GMT+10, Brian Turner <
 brok...@gmail.com> wrote: 


 Does anyone know anything specific about this new Hillibike iteration 
 scheduled for October? Care to make any speculations or predictions? 
 According to the latest Riv IG post, it only says "lugged, green and dark 
 gold".

 My main questions are:
 Will it have a straight top tube like the Platy / Roscoe Bubbe, or the 
 nice graceful swoopy one like Gus / Susie / Charlie?

 1" threaded or 1-1/8" threadless (like Gus)?

 Heavier tubing (like Gus), or lighter duty (like Susie)?

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 .

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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] FS / WTT - Nitto R10 for Nitto Campee R20

[Chris Copeland]

Hi all, I've got a Nitto R10 bag support that has some signs of use. Really 
enjoyed using this as a large saddle bag support/rest. However, I want to 
be able to run a pannier on the Bassi Hog's Back this is mounted on. If 
you're interested in the R10, great! Here's the link so you can see a 
photo. 
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bop/d/seattle-nitto-r10/7615851017.html

If you're interested in a trade, lets talk! thanks, hope something can work 
out

-Chris
Seattle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Los Angeles Riv Ride

[Chris Buzzini]

Great idea. I'll do my best to join as well. Looking forward to it. 
On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 9:00:35 PM UTC-7 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> I can make it on the 13th or 27th. Also, I teach for a living so the 
> schedule's wide open during the summer.
>
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 10:21:18 AM UTC-7 Keith P. wrote:
>
>> I am available on the 13th, but might be flexible on the 20th
>>
>> k.
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:35 AM, Brian Cunningham  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Of those 3 dates, I’m only available on the 27th, but my tricky schedule 
>> is not everyone else’s problem. I’ll join you if that ends up being the 
>> best date for all parties involved.
>>
>>
>> Brian 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2023, at 8:10 AM, Houston Wilson  wrote:
>>
>> Yay, I'm loving hearing from y'all!
>>
>> 1. *Anyone have a preference for May 13th, 20th, or 27th?*
>>
>> 2. Regarding the route, it seems like most folks are out east, so 
>> Griffith seems like the best option. 
>>
>> Ted D.--point taken about Griffith + Hollywood sign not being very chill. 
>> So, probably best to just stick to griffith, but if anyone wants to ride to 
>> the Hollywood sign after, I'd be super down! 
>>
>> So, I'm thinking meet by the Greek and do a little loop up to Vista del 
>> Valle and around to the Observatory. This would be about 8 mi with ~1000 
>> ft. of elevation. *I don't ride in griffith a ton, so if anyone has 
>> route suggestions/food spots to hit up before/after...please share haha! *
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 7:24:40 AM UTC-7 Bryan wrote:
>>
>>> Hi! I might be able to make it, schedule permitting. Sounds fun!
>>>
>>> Bryan Edgar 
>>> Valley Village
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:18:43 PM UTC-7 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>>>
 Count me in. 

 I'm in South Pasadena (orange Hillborne bought in 2009). Haven't 
 browsed this forum in a few years, but decided to check in because I 
 wanted 
 to go on a group ride. Oddly enough, I saw a parked Atlantis at the 626 
 Golden Streets event yesterday. Seems like the perfect time to meet up 
 with 
 some other folks, especially since some of the newer Rivs look drastically 
 different.

 Cheers,
 Tony

 On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:08:22 AM UTC-7 bunny...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Hey all!
> I will be out of the country for about two weeks in MAY, but would 
> love to join if I am in town. By no means should the scheduling be done 
> around my availability.
>
> Cheers!
> Ben
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 10:34:17 AM UTC-7 Keith P. wrote:
>
>> I remember Ben/bunnyadrian planning a local ride last year.
>> Has he seen this yet?
>>
>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 10:17:19 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 4:40:12 PM UTC-5 Houston Wilson wrote:
>>>
>>> Depending on where most folks are located, I think it could be cool 
>>> to do the Will Rogers inspiration loop in the Western Santa Monica's or 
>>> a 
>>> Griffith Park/Hollywood Sign moment. Regardless, it'd be a chill pace 
>>> with 
>>> a cafe stop or two thrown in. 
>>>
>>> I don't think I'm going to make it out that way in May. In fact, my 
>>> LA daughter is planning to come here for a week. I'll watch the thread 
>>> with 
>>> interest, though. As for the route ... I can't imagine Griffith 
>>> Park/Hollywood Sign being a very "chill" ride - that's a lot of 
>>> climbing! 
>>> But it's beautiful and fun.
>>>
>>> Ted Durant
>>> Milwaukee, WI (and occasionally Alhambra, CA) 
>>>
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To 

Re: [RBW] rack for Wald 139

[Chris Clodfelter]

I use the Sunlite and the Soma Champs Elysees for my 139.

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 7:29 PM J Schwartz  wrote:

> Greetings
> I'm interested in racking my Wald 139 big basket and am curious what ppl
> are using for a rack.
> I just got an email that the basket rack is back in stock at RBW, and I'm
> considering just buying it but I'm really just not onboard with spending
> $288 on a front rack despite how well it's made and special it is..  I may
> pull the trigger on it anyway but wanted to check here to see what users of
> the 139 are doing to attach it to the fronts of their bikes.
> I already have an old Nitto R14 "Top Rack" that I know some people have
> used in the front and zipped a 139 on top.  Mine is older and doesn't have
> any diving board provisions so it's only 4 struts but I assume it's strong
> enough if installed well.   My intention was to use that rack on the rear
> of the bike though.
> Any suggestions for a support for the 139 that isn't $288?
> thanks
> JS
>
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