Re: [RBW] FS: 59cm Clem H "Hillibike" with Jones, Thomson, Shimano XT, etc.

[Jeremy Till]

Bike is sold! Thanks all. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 5:28:28 AM UTC-8 brycel...@gmail.com wrote:

> messaged! beautiful bike
>
>
> On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 4:33:37 PM UTC-5 Tim Tetrault wrote:
>
>> Someone should grab this. A great deal with a solid setup. Good luck 
>> Jeremy. If I had the space I'd be all over it.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 1:27 PM Jeremy Till  wrote:
>>
>>> Bumping again
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 23, 2024 at 5:24:01 PM UTC-8 Jeremy Till wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bump! New bike for the weekend?
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 12:45:33 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dang what a great deal, cheers fellow Sacramentan. 
>>>>> (If you part it out I am interested in the stem-Liz) 
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2024, at 12:39, Jeremy Till  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got some exciting adventures on the horizon that would be best 
>>>>> suited to having a slightly different bike in my stable, so I've decided 
>>>>> to 
>>>>> part ways (amicably) with my first-gen (2016) 59cm Clem Smith Jr, in the 
>>>>> no-longer-available "H-type." This has been a great bike that I've really 
>>>>> enjoyed riding, but I don't do it enough and I'm excited to pass it on to 
>>>>> someone who will enjoy it.  
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to toot my own horn, but I was riding hillibikes before they were 
>>>>> cool, or at least before Grant had thought up the term. When I bought 
>>>>> this 
>>>>> in 2016, I was mountain biking a lot and built this up from the start as 
>>>>> a 
>>>>> rim brake mountain bike, using things like wide, tubeless compatible 
>>>>> rims, 
>>>>> strong V-brakes, and trigger shifters. When VO brought out their 31.8mm 
>>>>> quill stem in 2017 it got 710mm Jones Loop bars, which really tied the 
>>>>> whole thing together, and that has been the basic setup with relatively 
>>>>> minor modifications since then. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Overall it's in good shape, never been crashed (that I can remember), 
>>>>> and I've proactively replaced consumable parts before they've worn out. 
>>>>> There's a couple of places where the green paint has chipped exposing the 
>>>>> white primer below. Pictures are here <https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBeyNv>. 
>>>>> The build: 
>>>>>
>>>>> Frame/fork: 59cm Clem H, Green. Geometry here 
>>>>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160109235823/http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-clemsmith.htm>
>>>>> Headset: FSA Duron
>>>>> Wheels: Prototype Rivendell "Silver" hubs, laced to Velocity 
>>>>> Cliffhangers (700c/29") with 36 double butted spokes each. Currently 
>>>>> running ~1 year old Specialized Fast Trak 2.2" tires with tubes. Rims are 
>>>>> tubeless compatible, but the rim tape is the original from when I built 
>>>>> it 
>>>>> up in 2016 so it could probably use a refresh if you are going to try to 
>>>>> run them tubeless. 
>>>>> Handlebars: Jones 710mm Loop H-Bar, butted aluminum, Jones Kraton 
>>>>> grips 
>>>>> Stem: Velo-Orange Removable Faceplate Quill Stem, 90mm
>>>>> Seatpost: Thomson Elite (zero setback)
>>>>> Saddle: Will come with a WTB Pure (pictured with WTB Deva), or will 
>>>>> sell sans saddle
>>>>> Brake Levers: Shimano Deore "touring" (BL-T611)
>>>>> Brakes: Shimano XT v-brakes
>>>>> Shifter: Shimano Sora 9spd Rapidfire w/ two-way release
>>>>> Rear Derailleur: Shimano XT 9spd "Shadow" (RD-M772)
>>>>> (No front shifter or derailleur)
>>>>> Cranks: CODA-Branded Sugino 94/58mm BCD, 175mm, square taper w/ 36-22 
>>>>> Dimension 9spd alloy chainrings
>>>>> Bottom Bracket: sealed cartridge unit, 107mm, I think it's a Tange?
>>>>> Pedals: Shimano Saint platform pedals
>>>>> Cassette: Shimano XT 9spd, 11-34
>>>>> Chain: SRAM PC 991
>>>>>
>>>>> Sale does not include the King Iris bottle cages pictured. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Craigslist price is $1,600, happy to sell to a list member for $1,400. 
>>>>> I'm in Sacram

Re: [RBW] FS: 59cm Clem H "Hillibike" with Jones, Thomson, Shimano XT, etc.

[Jeremy Till]

Bumping again

On Friday, February 23, 2024 at 5:24:01 PM UTC-8 Jeremy Till wrote:

> Bump! New bike for the weekend?
>
> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 12:45:33 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:
>
>> Dang what a great deal, cheers fellow Sacramentan. 
>> (If you part it out I am interested in the stem-Liz) 
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2024, at 12:39, Jeremy Till  wrote:
>>
>> I've got some exciting adventures on the horizon that would be best 
>> suited to having a slightly different bike in my stable, so I've decided to 
>> part ways (amicably) with my first-gen (2016) 59cm Clem Smith Jr, in the 
>> no-longer-available "H-type." This has been a great bike that I've really 
>> enjoyed riding, but I don't do it enough and I'm excited to pass it on to 
>> someone who will enjoy it.  
>>
>>
>> Not to toot my own horn, but I was riding hillibikes before they were 
>> cool, or at least before Grant had thought up the term. When I bought this 
>> in 2016, I was mountain biking a lot and built this up from the start as a 
>> rim brake mountain bike, using things like wide, tubeless compatible rims, 
>> strong V-brakes, and trigger shifters. When VO brought out their 31.8mm 
>> quill stem in 2017 it got 710mm Jones Loop bars, which really tied the 
>> whole thing together, and that has been the basic setup with relatively 
>> minor modifications since then. 
>>
>> Overall it's in good shape, never been crashed (that I can remember), and 
>> I've proactively replaced consumable parts before they've worn out. There's 
>> a couple of places where the green paint has chipped exposing the white 
>> primer below. Pictures are here <https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBeyNv>. The 
>> build: 
>>
>> Frame/fork: 59cm Clem H, Green. Geometry here 
>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160109235823/http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-clemsmith.htm>
>> Headset: FSA Duron
>> Wheels: Prototype Rivendell "Silver" hubs, laced to Velocity Cliffhangers 
>> (700c/29") with 36 double butted spokes each. Currently running ~1 year old 
>> Specialized Fast Trak 2.2" tires with tubes. Rims are tubeless compatible, 
>> but the rim tape is the original from when I built it up in 2016 so it 
>> could probably use a refresh if you are going to try to run them tubeless. 
>> Handlebars: Jones 710mm Loop H-Bar, butted aluminum, Jones Kraton grips 
>> Stem: Velo-Orange Removable Faceplate Quill Stem, 90mm
>> Seatpost: Thomson Elite (zero setback)
>> Saddle: Will come with a WTB Pure (pictured with WTB Deva), or will sell 
>> sans saddle
>> Brake Levers: Shimano Deore "touring" (BL-T611)
>> Brakes: Shimano XT v-brakes
>> Shifter: Shimano Sora 9spd Rapidfire w/ two-way release
>> Rear Derailleur: Shimano XT 9spd "Shadow" (RD-M772)
>> (No front shifter or derailleur)
>> Cranks: CODA-Branded Sugino 94/58mm BCD, 175mm, square taper w/ 36-22 
>> Dimension 9spd alloy chainrings
>> Bottom Bracket: sealed cartridge unit, 107mm, I think it's a Tange?
>> Pedals: Shimano Saint platform pedals
>> Cassette: Shimano XT 9spd, 11-34
>> Chain: SRAM PC 991
>>
>> Sale does not include the King Iris bottle cages pictured. 
>>
>> Craigslist price is $1,600, happy to sell to a list member for $1,400. 
>> I'm in Sacramento, CA and would prefer a local sale, but if you're 
>> elsewhere and are willing to pay for boxing and shipping, let me know. 
>>
>> -Jeremy Till
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a439586f-16b1-4729-8c8e-8381c44d61a4n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a439586f-16b1-4729-8c8e-8381c44d61a4n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] FS: 59cm Clem H "Hillibike" with Jones, Thomson, Shimano XT, etc.

[Jeremy Till]

Bump! New bike for the weekend?

On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 12:45:33 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:

> Dang what a great deal, cheers fellow Sacramentan. 
> (If you part it out I am interested in the stem-Liz) 
>
> On Feb 17, 2024, at 12:39, Jeremy Till  wrote:
>
> I've got some exciting adventures on the horizon that would be best 
> suited to having a slightly different bike in my stable, so I've decided to 
> part ways (amicably) with my first-gen (2016) 59cm Clem Smith Jr, in the 
> no-longer-available "H-type." This has been a great bike that I've really 
> enjoyed riding, but I don't do it enough and I'm excited to pass it on to 
> someone who will enjoy it.  
>
>
> Not to toot my own horn, but I was riding hillibikes before they were 
> cool, or at least before Grant had thought up the term. When I bought this 
> in 2016, I was mountain biking a lot and built this up from the start as a 
> rim brake mountain bike, using things like wide, tubeless compatible rims, 
> strong V-brakes, and trigger shifters. When VO brought out their 31.8mm 
> quill stem in 2017 it got 710mm Jones Loop bars, which really tied the 
> whole thing together, and that has been the basic setup with relatively 
> minor modifications since then. 
>
> Overall it's in good shape, never been crashed (that I can remember), and 
> I've proactively replaced consumable parts before they've worn out. There's 
> a couple of places where the green paint has chipped exposing the white 
> primer below. Pictures are here <https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBeyNv>. The 
> build: 
>
> Frame/fork: 59cm Clem H, Green. Geometry here 
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160109235823/http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-clemsmith.htm>
> Headset: FSA Duron
> Wheels: Prototype Rivendell "Silver" hubs, laced to Velocity Cliffhangers 
> (700c/29") with 36 double butted spokes each. Currently running ~1 year old 
> Specialized Fast Trak 2.2" tires with tubes. Rims are tubeless compatible, 
> but the rim tape is the original from when I built it up in 2016 so it 
> could probably use a refresh if you are going to try to run them tubeless. 
> Handlebars: Jones 710mm Loop H-Bar, butted aluminum, Jones Kraton grips 
> Stem: Velo-Orange Removable Faceplate Quill Stem, 90mm
> Seatpost: Thomson Elite (zero setback)
> Saddle: Will come with a WTB Pure (pictured with WTB Deva), or will sell 
> sans saddle
> Brake Levers: Shimano Deore "touring" (BL-T611)
> Brakes: Shimano XT v-brakes
> Shifter: Shimano Sora 9spd Rapidfire w/ two-way release
> Rear Derailleur: Shimano XT 9spd "Shadow" (RD-M772)
> (No front shifter or derailleur)
> Cranks: CODA-Branded Sugino 94/58mm BCD, 175mm, square taper w/ 36-22 
> Dimension 9spd alloy chainrings
> Bottom Bracket: sealed cartridge unit, 107mm, I think it's a Tange?
> Pedals: Shimano Saint platform pedals
> Cassette: Shimano XT 9spd, 11-34
> Chain: SRAM PC 991
>
> Sale does not include the King Iris bottle cages pictured. 
>
> Craigslist price is $1,600, happy to sell to a list member for $1,400. I'm 
> in Sacramento, CA and would prefer a local sale, but if you're elsewhere 
> and are willing to pay for boxing and shipping, let me know. 
>
> -Jeremy Till
>
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>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a439586f-16b1-4729-8c8e-8381c44d61a4n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>
>

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[RBW] FS: 59cm Clem H "Hillibike" with Jones, Thomson, Shimano XT, etc.

[Jeremy Till]

I've got some exciting adventures on the horizon that would be best suited 
to having a slightly different bike in my stable, so I've decided to part 
ways (amicably) with my first-gen (2016) 59cm Clem Smith Jr, in the 
no-longer-available "H-type." This has been a great bike that I've really 
enjoyed riding, but I don't do it enough and I'm excited to pass it on to 
someone who will enjoy it.  

Not to toot my own horn, but I was riding hillibikes before they were cool, 
or at least before Grant had thought up the term. When I bought this in 
2016, I was mountain biking a lot and built this up from the start as a rim 
brake mountain bike, using things like wide, tubeless compatible rims, 
strong V-brakes, and trigger shifters. When VO brought out their 31.8mm 
quill stem in 2017 it got 710mm Jones Loop bars, which really tied the 
whole thing together, and that has been the basic setup with relatively 
minor modifications since then. 

Overall it's in good shape, never been crashed (that I can remember), and 
I've proactively replaced consumable parts before they've worn out. There's 
a couple of places where the green paint has chipped exposing the white 
primer below. Pictures are here <https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBeyNv>. The build: 

Frame/fork: 59cm Clem H, Green. Geometry here 
<https://web.archive.org/web/20160109235823/http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-clemsmith.htm>
Headset: FSA Duron
Wheels: Prototype Rivendell "Silver" hubs, laced to Velocity Cliffhangers 
(700c/29") with 36 double butted spokes each. Currently running ~1 year old 
Specialized Fast Trak 2.2" tires with tubes. Rims are tubeless compatible, 
but the rim tape is the original from when I built it up in 2016 so it 
could probably use a refresh if you are going to try to run them tubeless. 
Handlebars: Jones 710mm Loop H-Bar, butted aluminum, Jones Kraton grips 
Stem: Velo-Orange Removable Faceplate Quill Stem, 90mm
Seatpost: Thomson Elite (zero setback)
Saddle: Will come with a WTB Pure (pictured with WTB Deva), or will sell 
sans saddle
Brake Levers: Shimano Deore "touring" (BL-T611)
Brakes: Shimano XT v-brakes
Shifter: Shimano Sora 9spd Rapidfire w/ two-way release
Rear Derailleur: Shimano XT 9spd "Shadow" (RD-M772)
(No front shifter or derailleur)
Cranks: CODA-Branded Sugino 94/58mm BCD, 175mm, square taper w/ 36-22 
Dimension 9spd alloy chainrings
Bottom Bracket: sealed cartridge unit, 107mm, I think it's a Tange?
Pedals: Shimano Saint platform pedals
Cassette: Shimano XT 9spd, 11-34
Chain: SRAM PC 991

Sale does not include the King Iris bottle cages pictured. 

Craigslist price is $1,600, happy to sell to a list member for $1,400. I'm 
in Sacramento, CA and would prefer a local sale, but if you're elsewhere 
and are willing to pay for boxing and shipping, let me know. 

-Jeremy Till

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[RBW] Re: Seat lug crack

[Jeremy Till]

Replying not as a frame expert, but I did work as a mechanic for a while 
and was often customers' first line of inquiry about frame issues. Take my 
advice with a grain of salt. The only authoritative source of information 
on this would be a framebuilder who has been able to inspect the frame in 
person.  

All that being said: 
-I would agree that that looks like a cracked seat lug. If my understanding 
of frame construction is correct, that also means the top of the seat tube 
is cracked, since it extends through the seat lug and is cut off even with 
the top of the lug. 
-A crack there would be a big deal in that it would eventually cause the 
frame to no longer be able to clamp the seatpost. The tension of tightening 
the seatpost binder bolt would tend to expand the crack, and eventually the 
seatpost would start to slip. Riding it in this condition would probably 
accelerate the process. 
-I'll let you evaluate what is an acceptable amount of danger for yourself, 
given the failure mode I've described above. 
-I would imagine that something like this could be repaired by a skilled 
framebuilder, but the questions would be whether you could find one that 
was willing to take on the work, and, depending on what they charged, 
whether the repair would make sense financially. It's a tricky repair being 
at the seat cluster joint, where four tubes come together, rather that at a 
joint with only two tubes, or better yet in the middle of a single tube. 
Given that the crack is also through the seat tube, a repair might 
necessitate replacing that tube as well, although a framebuilder might be 
able to cut it off somewhere in the middle of the tube and splice in a new 
section to run through the seat lug. I don't know where you're located, but 
as always, finding a local builder who could look at it would be ideal. 

Good luck!

-Jeremy Till (former orange QB owner myself)
Sacramento, CA

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 11:07:41 PM UTC-8 eil...@umich.edu wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am seeking information about what looks to be a small crack in the seat 
> lug of an orange Quickbeam. The reason I think it’s a crack in the lug and 
> not just the paint is that it is visible from both inside and outside the 
> seat tube. Pictures attached below.
>
> Some questions I have are:
> - Am I diagnosing this correctly as a cracked seat lug?
> - Is a crack this size and in this location a big deal (I’m assuming yes), 
> and if so, how big of a deal?
> - Does this render the frame dangerous to ride?
> - Can something like this be repaired? Is there anyone that’s had 
> something similar repaired who can share their experience?
>
> Thank you for any information anyone can share or point me toward.
>
> Logan
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Ultegra 9spd long cage range

[Jeremy Till]

Generally, with Shimano road derailleurs the short and long cage versions 
usually had about the same max cog specification, around 27 or 28t. The 
difference was that the longer cage one had enough capacity that it could 
handle a triple in front. 

The general consensus around here is that Shimano derailleur capacity/max 
cog specifications are usually a little bit on the conservative side, and 
many have successfully used them with larger rear cogs than those for which 
they were specified. If it were mine, I'd be tempted to see if it could 
shift something like an 11-32 cassette. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA


On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 3:14:12 PM UTC-8 dylantho...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I have a 6500 series Ultegra RD with a long cage. Anyone know the range of 
> cassette I should be able to work with? I believe the short cage can take 
> 28, but I can't find the long cage max anywhere...any help is appreciated!

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[RBW] Long chainstay content: Esker Hayduke LVS review at The Radavist

[Jeremy Till]

I thought some on here might be interested in The Radavist's review of the 
Esker Hayduke LVS 
<https://theradavist.com/esker-cycles-hayduke-lvs-longtail-review/>, which 
they posted last week. The Hayduke LVS is a new titanium hardtail mountain 
bike with long (600mm) chainstays. 

I though it would be of interest for a number of reasons: 

   1. Another company (aside from Rivendell and Jeff Jones) thinks long 
   chainstays are a good enough idea to build a production model around them.
   2. The reviewer, John Watson (owner of the Radavist), gives Grant his 
   due credit for some of the thinking behind long chainstays, although it's 
   unclear to me if Esker themselves credit him for influencing the design. 
   3. The review is favorable (to put it mildly) and everything John says 
   about riding the Hayduke LVS reflects my feelings about riding my 59cm Clem 
   H (with 56cm chainstays) off-road. I don't do it much anymore, but back 
   before I had a kid I did a fair amount of mountain biking on it and I loved 
   the sure-footed feeling on climbs and the long wheelbase stability on the 
   descents, compared to other hardtails and full-suspension bikes I had 
   ridden with more "standard" MTB geometry (read: short chainstays). In fact, 
   I would argue that the fact that the Esker is completely otherwise a 
   standard hardtail with suspension fork, disc brakes, and dropper seatpost 
   points to the fundamental soundness of the long-chainstay design, given 
   that it seems to work even if you don't buy into all of Grant's 
   particularities when it comes to component selection.  

I hope others enjoy reading it too! The accompanying video of the 
bikepacking trip they took is also fun.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Re: Expert level bike commuting strategies?

[Jeremy Till]

Long time bike commuter here. For the past seven years, I've worked in a 
city (Davis, CA) that's about 16 miles by bike from where I live 
(Sacramento, CA). That's just a little bit longer than I can, or have the 
motivation to do, 100% of the time while also having enough energy for my 
job and being present for my wife and 5 year old at home. It's also not the 
most pleasant bike ride--while the cities at either end are pleasant places 
to ride, in the middle there are many miles of frontage road and somewhat 
sketchy bike path along a freeway. So, most days I ride my bike to transit, 
either bus or train. I'm lucky to have both options. The morning bike ride 
to the bus is actually in the opposite direction from my work, but it goes 
through a pleasant neighborhood and is just long enough (~3.5 miles) to 
help me feel like I've ridden a bit and got some exercise. 

So, my first advice would be to explore multi-modal options. Is there a 
transit option that can cut out the worst part of your commute? Is there a 
transit option where riding to the transit is actually more enjoyable than 
riding straight to work?

If you're a tinkerer and enjoy riding different bikes, like I am, then I 
would say that switching things up and using the commute to try new setups 
is a good way to keep things fresh and motivating. I ride different bikes 
depending on if I'm multi-modal commuting or riding the whole way, and the 
opportunity to ride a different bike helps me get excited about choosing 
one option or another. The daily repetition can also help with comparison 
between setups to help you try new things and dial them in. Multi-modal may 
also put different demands on your setup that might lead you in the 
direction of a different bike. For instance, while I have a Clem, I don't 
commute on it because its length makes it difficult to use with the bike 
racks on the bus and train. 

I go through periods of higher motivation where I get in the habit of doing 
the full commute, most recently in 2021-2022 when I returned to the office 
after the pandemic, but then life intervenes and I fall out of the habit 
and it's hard to get back in to it. I rode all the way home on Tuesday, and 
while the freeway-adjacent parts were as unpleasant as ever, the other 
parts helped me to remember why I enjoy it, and it felt good to get the 
miles in. So my last piece of advice would be to take it easy on 
yourself--even long time bike commuters can struggle with motivation. Don't 
get down on yourself for wanting to take it easy sometimes, but also 
embrace the good feelings when they do occur.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 7:26:25 AM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> Lately I have been biking to work again, from my home in Queens to work in 
> Manhattan. Unfortunately, my commute is less than ideal. There are few bike 
> lanes in my neighborhood. I leave at 6:30, when it’s dark and cold outside. 
> There are lots of big trucks and fast drivers. It’s hilly. Then, when I get 
> to the bike lane section of the ride, it’s crowded with electric bikes, 
> deliveristas, and stand-up electric scooters. 
>
> My commute is 7.8 miles point to point, and I make it in about 53 minutes. 
> I started keeping track of my times on Strava. I like looking at my records 
> (eastbound across Central Park in 1:40!) but I feel Strava is mostly a 
> record of how long I get stuck at red lights. There are so many stoplights 
> that I struggle to raise my average speed over 11 MPH. 
>
> I use one Ortlieb bag, and I’ve tried to lighten my load as much as 
> possible. Yet, I still feel like I am carrying a lot to work. One thing 
> I’ve been doing is rolling my work clothes and putting rubber bands around 
> them. That helps with the organization.
>
> I’m riding my Rivendell Appaloosa with a big back rack and fenders. 
> Fortunately, even after riding it for about 7 years, the bike still feels 
> amazing. I also feel great getting so much exercise, and I find I feel I 
> have more energy on days I ride compared to when I take the subway.
>
> I was wondering if anyone has any bike commuting advice? I’m finding it 
> hard to stay motivated. I want advanced level advice - not just “keep your 
> tires pumped up,” but more along the lines of “Buy 5 Bromptons and have 
> your wife drop them off at work every Sunday so you can ride one home per 
> day.” One thing I might try is a lighter wheelset on the same bike. As Bill 
> Lindsay said, “If everybody had a gravity knob on their bike, we would all 
> peg it to the minimum.”
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What shoes does your Riv wear?

[Jeremy Till]

I doubt that Grant was intentionally designing his bikes specifically to 
handle better with knobbier tires. I think it's more a product of his own 
views of how a bike should handle and the tires that were available/common 
at the time he designed the bike. On the first point, he's written a few 
times defending the virtues of geometric trail, perhaps as a response to 
challenges from Jan-Heine-o-philes who wanted him to design a low trail 
bike. On the second point, most of the tires we're discussing were nothing 
but a twinkle in Jan Heine or Panaracer's eyes when the Rambouillet was 
designed, and I think it probably handles best with 28-32mm road tires 
because that was considered downright obese for a road bike at the time. 
For the Clem, certainly that was designed closer to the contemporary golden 
age of fat tires, but I still remember most of the prototypes wearing 
something like a Schwalbe Big Ben, which has more of a blockier tread that 
probably reduces pneumatic trail compared to something like an RH slick. 

Jeremy Till 
Sacramento, CA

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 6:46:34 PM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> Jeremy,
>
> You make a good point about the geometric and pneumatic trail and the 
> possibility that Grant designed his frames around a knobbier, more general 
> purpose, tire thus building the frames with more geometric trail. I’d love 
> to ask Grant that question to know if it was happy coincidence that they 
> ended up that way or if the design choice was really that intentional.
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 4:22 PM Jeremy Till  wrote:
>
>> On my Rivendells I've noticed that, irrespective of the surface I'm 
>> riding on, I actually prefer the handling with larger knobby tires than 
>> with larger slick tires. This is true on both my Clem H (2016, first-gen) 
>> with 45-55mm tires and my Rambouillet (green, ~2006 as far as I can tell) 
>> with 36-38mm tires. My explanation for this is that Grant tends to design 
>> bikes with larger geometric trail. When you add in the pneumatic trail of 
>> larger slick tires, the whole thing can feel harder to turn. Knobby tires 
>> give you the same shock absorption while putting less rubber on the 
>> pavement, thus reducing the pneumatic trail. Jan Heine has noted this 
>> effect himself when comparing knobby and slick versions of his tires. 
>>
>> My Rambouillet current wears RH (actually Compass, they're a few years 
>> old) Steilacoom 700x38 knobbies. My Clem H has 29x2.2 Specialized Fast 
>> Traks with the "Control" casing, which is an XC-oriented MTB tire with 
>> relatively minimal knobs that rolls well on pavement. In my experience 
>> there is no free lunch when it comes to supple casings and flats. Certainly 
>> the ride is better with things like the RH standard casing but my rate of 
>> flatting from glass and thorns goes up. Sealant and tubeless haven't been 
>> the solution, in my experience, and I run both of my Rivendells with 
>> tubes.  
>>
>> Since Patrick was also mentioning them I will say that I've used both the 
>> 700x42 and 700x38 versions of the Soma Supple Vitesse EX on my Long Haul 
>> Trucker, which seems to handle better with large slicks than my Rivendells. 
>> Those are good tires with an acceptable flat rate for me. I also tried the 
>> 700x38 SL version on my Rambouillet and found that not only did I not like 
>> the handling, but the flat rate was excessive for me. Note that the only 
>> difference between the EX and SL Supple Vitesses is the thickness of the 
>> tread, with the EX having thicker treads. Unlike RH and other brands there 
>> is no difference in the casing between the lightweight and longer wearing 
>> versions. I believe that the Shikiro is the same tread as the Supple 
>> Vitesse EX with a heavier duty casing.  
>>
>> Jeremy Till
>> Sacramento, CA
>>
>> On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 8:26:17 AM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve had tires on the brain this last week. I was thinking I might want 
>>> to try something a little narrower on my Appaloosa so I’ve been a bit 
>>> absorbed with that thought.
>>>
>>> At the moment I run the SimWorks Super Yummy tire with the black 
>>> sidewall in 29x2.25”. I previously had their 26x2.25” tan wall tires on a 
>>> 26” build and absolutely loved them on that bike. Unfortunately, in the 
>>> larger size, with the sort of riding I do (spirited, urban, all-road) I 
>>> find the tires sluggish and a bit unpredictable at times. Combined with the 
>>> 25mm wide rim I use, the tires measure to close to 60mm wide.
>>>
>>> I was thinking about trying to find a tire with a more round

[RBW] Re: What shoes does your Riv wear?

[Jeremy Till]

On my Rivendells I've noticed that, irrespective of the surface I'm riding 
on, I actually prefer the handling with larger knobby tires than with 
larger slick tires. This is true on both my Clem H (2016, first-gen) with 
45-55mm tires and my Rambouillet (green, ~2006 as far as I can tell) with 
36-38mm tires. My explanation for this is that Grant tends to design bikes 
with larger geometric trail. When you add in the pneumatic trail of larger 
slick tires, the whole thing can feel harder to turn. Knobby tires give you 
the same shock absorption while putting less rubber on the pavement, thus 
reducing the pneumatic trail. Jan Heine has noted this effect himself when 
comparing knobby and slick versions of his tires. 

My Rambouillet current wears RH (actually Compass, they're a few years old) 
Steilacoom 700x38 knobbies. My Clem H has 29x2.2 Specialized Fast Traks 
with the "Control" casing, which is an XC-oriented MTB tire with relatively 
minimal knobs that rolls well on pavement. In my experience there is no 
free lunch when it comes to supple casings and flats. Certainly the ride is 
better with things like the RH standard casing but my rate of flatting from 
glass and thorns goes up. Sealant and tubeless haven't been the solution, 
in my experience, and I run both of my Rivendells with tubes.  

Since Patrick was also mentioning them I will say that I've used both the 
700x42 and 700x38 versions of the Soma Supple Vitesse EX on my Long Haul 
Trucker, which seems to handle better with large slicks than my Rivendells. 
Those are good tires with an acceptable flat rate for me. I also tried the 
700x38 SL version on my Rambouillet and found that not only did I not like 
the handling, but the flat rate was excessive for me. Note that the only 
difference between the EX and SL Supple Vitesses is the thickness of the 
tread, with the EX having thicker treads. Unlike RH and other brands there 
is no difference in the casing between the lightweight and longer wearing 
versions. I believe that the Shikiro is the same tread as the Supple 
Vitesse EX with a heavier duty casing.  

Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 8:26:17 AM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’ve had tires on the brain this last week. I was thinking I might want to 
> try something a little narrower on my Appaloosa so I’ve been a bit absorbed 
> with that thought.
>
> At the moment I run the SimWorks Super Yummy tire with the black sidewall 
> in 29x2.25”. I previously had their 26x2.25” tan wall tires on a 26” build 
> and absolutely loved them on that bike. Unfortunately, in the larger size, 
> with the sort of riding I do (spirited, urban, all-road) I find the tires 
> sluggish and a bit unpredictable at times. Combined with the 25mm wide rim 
> I use, the tires measure to close to 60mm wide.
>
> I was thinking about trying to find a tire with a more rounded profile and 
> something that would be a bit narrower, somewhere in the 44-48mm range to 
> start.
>
> I’ve been looking primarily at the Rene Herse tires. I have a friend who 
> runs the Pumpkin Ridge (650x42) tire on his bike of a similar purpose and 
> absolutely loves them. I’ve used the Naches Pass (26x1.8) on another build 
> and also liked them a lot, but found that despite being the “endurance” 
> casing, they were very prone to small punctures and didn’t handle the 
> typical road debris around where I ride very well; this is one of the 
> reasons I’ve typically stuck with knobbier tires.
>
> The ones on my short list are currently the  Manatash Ridge (700x42) and 
> Oracle Ridge (700x48) tires from RH.
>
> I’m curious to know and see what others on the list use and have liked. If 
> you have pictures, I’d also love to see what they look like (particularly 
> 42mm on frames like the Appaloosa).
>
> — Ted
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Trigger Shifter Question

[Jeremy Till]

To agree and be get a bit more specific, when it comes to Shimano trigger 
(aka "RapidFire") shifters, 7-9 speeds is the sweet spot for 
interchangeability between shifters and derailleurs. I've got one bike 
shifting a 9spd cassette with 9spd shifters and a 7spd derailleur, and 
another doing the same with an 8spd derailleur. There are some potential 
compatibilities outside of this range (10spd road and 9spd mountain, for 
instance) and third party companies like Microshift have made some shifters 
to fill in gaps left by Shimano, but in general, anything in the 7-9 speed 
range is going to play well.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 7:44:44 AM UTC-7 Justin Kennedy wrote:

> Awesome, this is the answer I was hoping for. Thanks JJ!
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 10:16 AM J J  wrote:
>
>> Hi Justin. You can definitely mix and match. You can use pretty much any 
>> Shimano trigger shifter with any Shimano rear derailleur as long as the 
>> number of shifter speeds corresponds to the number of cassette gears. There 
>> are a few exceptions, like vintage Shimano or too low or too high number of 
>> speeds. But for the stuff Rivendell sells, the various shifters are 
>> compatible with the various derailleurs. They do not have to be part of the 
>> same group. The derailleurs themselves don't care about which mechanism is 
>> actuating the cable travel. Just be sure the number of speeds on the 
>> shifters matches the number of cassette sprockets: 8-speed shifter with 
>> 8-speed cassette, 9-speed shifter with 9-speed cassette, etc. for proper 
>> indexing. And if you happen to run the trigger shifter with a Rapid Rise 
>> derailleur, the numbers on the shifter indicators will be reversed relative 
>> to non-Rapid Rise (1 will be 9, 2 will be 8, etc.), but otherwise the 
>> shifting will function the same. 
>> On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 9:39:21 AM UTC-4 Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, 
>> NY) wrote:
>>
>>> I've always used friction shifters but am thinking about putting a 
>>> trigger shifter on a new cargo bike build. So apologies in advance if this 
>>> is a stupid question, but...Do you have to use the corresponding rear 
>>> derailleur/groupset for a particular shifter? Or can you mix and match? 
>>>
>>> For instance, Riv sells 5-6 different shifters 
>>> <https://www.rivbike.com/products/kljs-gl46sgg> (Sora, Alivio, Acera, 
>>> Altus, Claris, etc.). If I buy, say, the Altus, can I only use it with an 
>>> Altus RD? 
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance-
>>>
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/599290a2-4399-4aa5-91e6-3fbe608f9ce5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> (c) 347-325-2640 <(347)%20325-2640>
> justink...@gmail.com
> www.justin-kennedy.com
>

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[RBW] Re: 1947 French touring bike — Bombadil/Hunqapillar inspiration?

[Jeremy Till]

Such "Twin Lateral" reinforcements were fairly common on taller and 
heavier-duty French touring bikes of the mid-to-late 20th century, and have 
been featured in Bicycle Quarterly. They're generally found on bikes 
intended for carrying heavy camping loads (hence "Campeur") rather than, 
say, a "Randonneur" intended for more moderate loads and more "spirited" 
riding. It's not unheard of to see lighter-duty bikes with reinforcements, 
however, especially if they're intended for bigger/stronger bikes. I even 
recall seeing a racing frameset from an Italian builder of a very large 
size that featured Bombadil-esque reinforcements.

Here's another example of a French Campeur: 
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjuLmnvw

Hard to say if such bikes were an inspiration for Breezer #1, maybe 
somebody can ask Joe Breeze next time they're at the Marin Museum. It 
wouldn't be impossible, given cycling's popularity in the Bay Area, that he 
might have encountered such a bike before building his own. 

Grant designed a custom with true twin lateral reinforcements back in 2014, 
except they were "tentacular" in that one curved up to the seatstay and the 
other curved down to the chainstay:

https://flic.kr/p/mjNfJc

It was for a relatively short rider who wouldn't normally have warranted 
such reinforcement on their frame but I recall it was a specific request 
from the customer, who was enamored with the "tentacular" diagatube setup 
on the Proto-Appaloosa/"Mystery Bikes" (which were the genesis of the whole 
"long chainstay" ethos, but that's another thread). She was a former list 
member who went by the handle "Riv Chica Warrior," IIRC, and she had won 
the frame in some kind of raffle that they held back then. Grant didn't 
feel there was enough room on the headtube to braze in a full diagatube so 
he went with the smaller diameter twin laterals.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA 


On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 6:38:03 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:

> I'm starting a new thread here instead of pushing Eric M's epic 
> mid-December thread "Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive 
> thread <https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/8k2ulNQVpUk>" 
> further afield.
>
> I have assumed that Joe Breeze's Breezer 1 
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/8k2ulNQVpUk/m/OEPrZCvxAAAJ> 
> was 
> the main inspiration for Bombadill and Hunqapillar designs. But after 
> stumbling upon this fascinating *Bombapillar-like* French bike on eBay 
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/304828227941>, I'm not so sure. The seller says 
> it's a 1947 650b model, but info about it is scarce.The eBay page has a few 
> other pics, too. The middle diagonal tube looks super cool to me.
>
> Is anyone here familiar with this bike? I'd love to hear about it if 
> you've got info or history to share. I wonder if it was an actual 
> production model or more of a one-off custom. 
>
> It looks robust, and has wide tires, a lugged stem (I think?), funky brake 
> and shift levers, clean welds, racks, hammered fenders, generator lighting. 
> I think it would be familiar in a crowd of Rivs, not a total oddball, 
> anyway. 
>
> Curious what others think.
>
> Thanks! 
> Jim
>
> (This photo would've been apropos on the cool thread "Celebrating 
> Triangulation 
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/kcA27mpMF5k/m/4WWO0rx-BwAJ>" 
> from Sept. 24.)
>
> [image: 1947 French Bombapillar s-l1600-2.jpeg]
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone running RH Steilacoom on a Canti-Rom?

[Jeremy Till]

Not exactly the data point you were looking for, but I run nominal 700x40 
WTB Nanos on my green Rambouillet. I use Paul Racer M brakes on that bike 
to achieve max clearance, so it may be similar to what you have on a 
Canti-rom. The tires measure out around 37.5mm on narrow Velocity Aerohead 
rims. The limiting point on the tire clearance is the chainstay bridge. I 
picked up a pair of Steilacooms at a bike swap last year and plan to 
replace the Nanos with them soon so I will have more specific data then. 

Picture of the current setup:

https://flic.kr/p/2mXmCj6

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA 
On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 8:20:48 AM UTC-8 J Schwartz wrote:

> Yes, sorry , I meant Canti-braked Romulus.
>
> On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 10:29:43 AM UTC-5 Dave C wrote:
>
>> Canti-Romulus, not Romanceur
>>
>> On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 6:19:30 AM UTC-8 charlie...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi JS, 
>>>
>>> The canti Romanceur fits 650b wheels and the Steilacoom tires are 700c.
>>>
>>> Maybe try the Juniper Ridge. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Charlie in Maine 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 4, 2023 at 12:45:05 PM UTC-5 J Schwartz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think these will fit , but wanted to check here first to see if 
>>>> anyone has tried.
>>>> thank you
>>>> JS
>>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Jeremy Till]

Wow, I work on the UC Davis campus and pass by the USBHOF regularly but had 
no idea that they had acquired Jobst's bike. I'll have to go pay homage one 
of these days.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 9:41:19 PM UTC-8 Jeff B wrote:

> As an aside to what modern bike Jobst might ride, here are some photos of 
> Jobst's bike at the US Bicycling Hall of Fame in Davis, CA. I'm not sure if 
> this was his final or second to last bike. I don't know if it is still 
> there and having it hanging from the ceiling makes it hard to photograph 
> and inspect but still very cool to see in person.
> Jobst's Bike <https://photos.app.goo.gl/HrzkBpxGP7s62w4S7>
>
> Jeff Burke
> Woodland, CA
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 2:11:00 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Not yet. I've gotten at least three email notifications this year that 
>> closure was imminent (*buy up now while you can*).
>>
>> A note: On several occasions in the past year, John has posted sales with 
>> 10%/15%/20% off all remaining items. The alleged discount does not appear 
>> online, but is supposed to be applied in the shopping basket at checkout. 
>> I've jumped in for two of these sales, and no general discount was applied 
>> to my shopping basket, using Safari 14/macOS. I don't know what browser his 
>> shopping mechanism is keyed to; I'm guessing it's Google Chrome. I don't 
>> know whether the discounted prices work with any browser at all.
>>
>> I could have phoned him and complained about it, but it felt petty. I 
>> like the stuff I bought, but it still sticks in my craw that I paid more 
>> than I was promised. If I order any of the scraps, I think I'm just going 
>> to phone the order in.
>>
>> Peter "aggressive shopping is a contact sport" Adler
>> Berkeley, CA/USA
>>
>> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 4:16:50 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik 
>> closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Jeremy Till]

Loved the Radavist article today, been a long time admirer of JB, used to 
loving pouring over his rec.bicycles.tech postings archived on yarchive.net 
<https://yarchive.net/bike/>. In terms of the thought experiment of what he 
would be riding today, as far as I know this 
<http://www.bikecult.com/works/archive/04bicycles/pjohnsonJB04.html> was 
his last bike that he rode up to his death in 2015, and features the few 
technological advances of the last ~50 years that he found valuable: 
lightweight clinchers, freehub rear wheel (although specifically Shimano 
freehubs, he felt the HuGi/DT Swiss design was flawed), clipless pedals, 
and threadless headset/stem (the latter two of which Tom Ritchey discusses 
in the Radavist article and takes credit for). I sincerely doubt that any 
of the "advances" of the last 7-8 years would have changed JB's views much. 
Even the "gravel" trend and the move towards wider tires on road bikes--he 
rode 28mm tires everywhere and felt that wider tires really weren't 
necessary for his style of riding.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA 

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to 
> current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>
> Today's Radavist 
> <https://theradavist.com/conversations-with-tom-ritchey-part-two-the-influence-of-jobst-brandt/>
>  article 
> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>
> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot 
> of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>
> Take it away if you wish, 
> Andrew
>

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[RBW] Re: Red Toyo Atlantis?

[Jeremy Till]

I *think* this bike was formerly owned by (former list member?) Gino Zahnd, 
as evidenced by this photo from 2013, which I faved at the time: 

https://flic.kr/p/f8fyGT

Gino does reference selling it in the comments on the photo.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:27:02 AM UTC-8 homer...@gmail.com wrote:

> I very curious about this bike. Honestly, I’ve just never seen a red 
> Atlantis?
> Does Anyone know what year this bike was made?
>
> Thanx folks 
>
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/vallejo-rivendell-atlantis-58/7578102714.html
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Very short reach drop bar, not too wide, gives a relatively normal hood position, and has anormal (not anatomic) bend?

[Jeremy Till]

The Salsa Cowbell is the shortest drop bar I've found (and used) at 68mm 
reach. Contemporary "short and shallow" type hooks. If you're used to any 
kind of real estate behind the brake lever, however, you might find these 
lacking. Fully on the brake lever hoods is about the only hand position 
they offer in that region. I recently used some for about a year before 
swapping for the VO "Nouveau Randonneur," which has significantly more room 
behind the hoods but is also longer reach. I liked the angle and position 
of the drops on the Cowbells better, though.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:39:28 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thank you, Elizabeth; both those look very possible -- and yes, I should 
> have mentioned that I do want a 31.8mm clamp area.
>
> The Specialized website also showed these with a 15 mm rise: perhaps even 
> better: 
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise-plus-flare/p/155205?color=231077-155205=21018-3044
>
> I suppose all of these have 128 mm -- 130 mm drop; then the Hover with the 
> 15 mm rise is even better with a net 115 mm drop. Excellent.
>
> Nick: Thanks for referring the Fairweather, but the 2 Specialized bars 
> suit better.
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 3:54 PM Elisabeth Sherwood  
> wrote:
>
>> As long as you don't mind a 31.8mm clamp area and a black finish, both 
>> Specialized's Shallow Bend handlebar and Zipp's 70 Ergo bars have a darn 
>> short reach and are super comfortable.  (Specialized has a round top; Zipp 
>> has a slightly flatter top...)  The Zipps have a 70mm reach; Specialized's 
>> is either the same, or 75mm...
>>
>> I'm linking to the base-price versions...
>>
>>
>> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/expert-alloy-shallow-bend-handlebars/p/155634?color=230897-155634
>>
>> https://www.sram.com/en/zipp/models/hb-dbsc-7e-b2
>>
>> If you're looking for a silver finish and a 26.0 clamp area, the only 
>> thing I've found to be nice is the Soma Hwy One...  Would love to hear of 
>> others!
>>
>> Liz
>> Washington, DC
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 5:06:34 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Is there any bar that is not more than about 44 cm at hoods, has a 
>>> regular hook, gives more or less a regular hoods position, and that has a 
>>> very short reach? And a very shallow drop? I think of replacing the 
>>> cut-down Aherne MAP bar with something that gives me the ever comfortable 
>>> hood position but doesn't stretch me out much more than the Aherne bar. I 
>>> realize that I can buy a shorter stem too, but I want to know what the 
>>> shortest reach, etc., option/s is/are.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5b14015a-357d-46bb-8436-7662e1c8e4b9n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5b14015a-357d-46bb-8436-7662e1c8e4b9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Flood Season Riding in CA

[Jeremy Till]

I've lived in Sacramento for most of the past 13 years and have lived 
through a few of these flood seasons and the drought years in between. The 
flood years always feel like welcome relief from the drought but also drive 
home just how reliant we are on the levees and infrastructure like the 
weirs and the Yolo Bypass to prevent floods. Impressive when it's working, 
but scary when it fails, as it did in the south part of the county last 
weekend. 

Flood control infrastructure is also of particular interest for the 
cyclists in the region because the levees also end up providing some of the 
best places to ride in the region. Some are topped with relatively quiet 
country roads with good views, being elevated over the surrounding areas. 
Others have gravel roads/paths that are off limits to motor vehicles, 
providing a great place to get your recommended dosage of vitamin G. The 
American River bike trail, the our region's most widely used and well known 
bike infrastructure, lies completely within the limits of the levees that 
control that river. Most of my recreational rides spend at least some time 
on or around a levee, and when they are closed for maintenance and 
upgrading some of my favorite routes are off-limits.

Here are some pictures (with bike content) of one of the weirs and the Yolo 
Bypass after they flooded it during the 2017 winter season, taken on a ride 
out there with some friends. This is not the Fremont Weir but the 
Sacramento Weir, which is further downstream, just north of West 
Sacramento. The big concern that year was the failure of the spillway on 
the Oroville Dam (upstream on the Sacramento) and the potential impacts to 
the region if the dam itself were to fail, which luckily it never did: 

https://flic.kr/s/aHskNRXT2L

>From the year before, the flooded Yolo Bypass from the I-80 causeway (which 
also has a bike lane). I work in Davis and commute across the causeway most 
days, so have always tracked the water levels in the bypass with interest: 

https://flic.kr/p/EQeANj

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento (obvs), CA

On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 6:54:00 PM UTC-8 Wesley wrote:

> Oh, and further to Collin's point about the flood risk from channelizing 
> the river: the Sacramento River is expected to overtop the Fremont weir 
> starting tomorrow for the first time since 2019, which was before I moved 
> to town. This causes the river to flow into the Yolo bypass rather than 
> flooding the city. Interstate 80 crosses the bypass on a causeway and I've 
> heard descriptions of the 2017 flow through there that sound apocalyptic. 
> Nothing in the forecast indicates that we will see even a third of that 
> flow, but it is going to get wetter and wetter over the next few weeks, so 
> who knows?
>
> Bike content: a week ago I rode out into the bypass on some gravel roads - 
> it was so refreshing to find a local ride that doesn't involve cars! Looks 
> like that'll be impossible for a little while.
> -Wes
>
> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 6:43:38 PM UTC-8 Wesley wrote:
>
>> Its true about the consternation from the public! I was out a few nights 
>> ago to see what conditions looked like on the American River, and at an 
>> intersection some car pulled up next to me, pointed a camera at me and 
>> started in with a bunch of questions about why I was out riding in the 
>> rain. It's a bike thing, you wouldn't understand.
>> -Wes
>>
>> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 4:36:51 PM UTC-8 Collin A wrote:
>>
>>> Brunchers,
>>>
>>> Happy "Storm" Season from Sacramento, currently sitting at a lovely 30 
>>> ft (average, NAVD88) with the nearby American River potentially cresting at 
>>> 40 ft if the current forecasts hold. This post may be a bit off-topic, but 
>>> it is riv/bike related because I have been doing some inspection rounds of 
>>> the levees on my Appaloosa, much to the confusion of my coworkers and the 
>>> public I see out there!
>>>
>>> Some Background:
>>> Like most of the rivers in California, the American River (and 
>>> Sacramento that the American feeds) is not a "natural" river and instead 
>>> dammed at several locations along it's length and constrained for hundreds 
>>> of miles by levees of varying levels of 'integrity.' The levees tend to 
>>> contribute to flood risk, somewhat counterintuitively, because they 
>>> constrain and limit how wide a river can go, thereby making the river run 
>>> narrower, taller, and faster and causing more flooding if (or rather when) 
>>> a levee breaks. The dams, specifically the Folsom Dam, serve to capture the 
>>> more erratic rainfall and stream flows and later release them over a longer 
>>> period to avoid damaging the levees 

Re: [RBW] Re: Clem H curious

[Jeremy Till]

I have a first-gen, 59cm Clem H, and my experience follow's Alex's. I have 
an Xtracycle Edgerunner that fills the Dutch-bike-upright, low step-thru, 
big-load-and-kid hauling niche for me, so my Clem is a unloaded, light and 
zippy MTB, with Jones Loop bars, WTB saddle, and 2x9 MTB drivetrain with no 
front derailleur. It feels fast and fun in this configuration, even with 
relatively heavy wheels built around 36 hole Cliffhanger rims (natch). The 
times that i've taken it on proper MTB trails I've been impressed by its 
climbing ability on steep technical sections, although between kid, COVID, 
and general lack of fitness, it's been quite some time since I've been able 
to do a "real" MTB ride. Still plenty of fun on the gravel levees and 
semi-legal riverside singletrack around here.  

I haven't ridden a Susie or Clem L and have only ridden a prototype Gus a 
couple of years ago. My impression was that the Gus was stiffer and beefier 
than the Clem. The Clem hasn't ever had any weight guidelines, but I think 
given my weight and use case Riv would probably recommend a Gus for me now. 

Most recent picture of my Clem from last weekend: 

https://flic.kr/p/2nCkKpx

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA



On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:37:22 AM UTC-7 ack...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> I have a Clem L and a Clem H.  The L has 18 speeds (2X9) and the L has 11 
> (1X11).  The L was a stock build and cost me $1750 from Riv direct, though 
> I later added an Atlas wheel set with Deore hubs.  The H cost me about 
> $4000 all told, built up with nicer parts, dynolights, and the frame cost 
> me a little extra as I had to source it from a shop in San Jose (Silva) 
> which was holding on to the last unbuilt-up 52 H remaining in the world 
> (that's my story and I'm sticking to it.)   My H is super zippy and, at 
> times, I feel like it is pushing me up the gravel fire roads in the Marin 
> Headlands.  The bike feels alive.  My L is reliable and, outfitted with a 
> Pass and Stow 5-rail rack, can carry 50lb. loads from Costco with very 
> little wobble.  I use it as my city commuter, and I enjoy every minute 
> riding it, but it is definitely more Cadillac than Porsche.  Were I to 
> switch out the parts and ride my L with my H setup, I might be singing a 
> different song, but my experience is that the H is much zippier, and the L 
> a bit more of a workhorse.  That's all I got.
>
> Alex
> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 7:12:44 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like the idea 
>> of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while pulling my 
>> daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a leg over but 
>> sometimes it could be a benefit.
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only standing 
>>> still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex disappears. Of course any 
>>> frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I sold mine & have 
>>> invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it though as the 
>>> step through is my favorite feature of the many features I love about this 
>>> bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just so nice.
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a smidge of 
>>> flex in the frame that shows up if you load a bunch of weight on it (some 
>>> folks I've mentioned this to say they don't notice it, YRMV). Grab that H, 
>>> it's a good frame! 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 9:02:34 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never ridden a 
>>>> bike like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to an all time high 
>>>> for me! I do however find it to be almost too nice! 
>>>>
>>>> I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock to use 
>>>> as my grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and haul more stuff. I 
>>>> found a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in though so I was hoping for 
>>>> some opinions about the differences here! From what I can tell, the H just 
>>>> has a sleeper head tube angle and everything else seems to be about the 
>>>> same. Do they ride similar? The H is a better deal as far as parts go than 
>>>> a complete. I’m also almost certain the complete will get a decent price 
>>>>

[RBW] WTT/FS: Soma Clarence/Cletus for 610mm Ahearne/MAP Handlebar

[Jeremy Till]

(x post with iBOB, apologies to those that see it twice)
Hey folks, 

A few weeks ago Soma brought out a new edition of their Clarence bar that 
included a pair of bar "ends" or extensions. The extensions utilize 
oversize clamps with shims so they can be mounted inboard of the forward 
curves on the bar. The extensions can also be rotated on their mounts. All 
of this adjustability means that you could set up everything from something 
resembling a Jones bar to something resembling a Velo-Orange Crazy Bar, or 
pretty much anything in between. You could also move run them as more 
traditional bar ends but with an angle that is more appropriate for a 
swept-back bar like the Clarence. They call the extensions "Cletus" and are 
selling the combo as the "Clarence/Cletus," and you can only get the 
extensions by buying the bar combo:

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/product/280113-soma-handlebar-clarence-w-cletus-ends-6383

When I saw them I thought they were pretty nifty, so I ordered a pair, but 
didn't really have an immediate intention of mounting them on anything. I 
pulled them out of the package to look at them, but they are still sitting 
in the original shipping box in my garage.  

Now, a few weeks later, I find myself curious to try something narrower 
than the 710mm Jones bars I have mounted on my Clem. I have narrower bars 
on a couple of other bikes and they seem to work well for me. 
Unfortunately, the Clarence isn't substantially narrower, especially since 
the way I have my grips set up, I tend to grip the bar well inwards from 
the ends. Thus, I find myself eyeing the Ahearne/MAP handlebar, whose grips 
are at a similar angle to Jones bars but are narrower, at 610mm. I do think 
I would want the wider of the two versions of the Ahearne/MAP, since I have 
large hands and still need to mount brake levers, a shifter, and grips.  

Thus, I'm looking to trade my new-in-box Clarence/Cletus for a pair of the 
610mm Ahearne/MAP bars. My ideal would be the 31.8mm version in black, but 
I'm open to either color or clamp diameter as long as they are the 610mm 
version.  

Alternatively, I would sell my Clarence/Cletus for basically the cost of a 
new Ahearne/MAP, so $100, including shipping in the lower 48.  

Let me know if you're interested either way!

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA 

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[RBW] Re: Drop bar - Fit question

[Jeremy Till]

You also don't mention which saddle are you are using, which in my 
experience is a key determinant in how much setback you need to achieve 
through frame and seatpost setback. The Nitto Lugged post was developed by 
Riv when most of their designs used a 72 degree seat angle, and some people 
had trouble getting a Brooks B.17 far back enough to be well balanced and 
comfortable. I've also seen it used to get Brooks saddles in a better 
position on older steel road bikes with 73 degree or steeper seat angles. 
Brooks leather saddles have very short usable rail adjustments which is 
biased towards the rear of the saddle, meaning it can be hard to get it far 
enough back on bikes with steeper seat angles. However, on the newer 
Rivendells with slacker seat angles, like your Homer, the lugged post might 
be overkill.

Personally, I use a zero setback Thomson seatpost on my 59cm Clem H, which, 
if I remember correctly, also has a 71.5 degree seattube. However, I also 
use a WTB Pure saddle, which in my experience has a lot more "built-in" 
setback--it's rails are longer, and more biased towards the middle of the 
saddle, so I have no problem getting enough setback with that post. If 
you're currently using a Brooks and the Nitto lugged post, you might try 
one of the Nitto posts with a more moderate amount of setback (the S65 or 
S83) before going to a zero setback. 

After many years of trial and error and recently getting more precise about 
the way I measure and set up my saddles, I've come to the conclusion that I 
need a similar amount of setback whether I am sitting upright or using drop 
bars. As others have said, it's best to figure out what that setback is for 
you before adjusting the reach to the handlebars to get comfortable. If you 
have another bike that on which you are basically comfortable, measuring 
its setback and replicating it on your Homer (assuming the same or similar 
saddles) might be a good starting point.  

Also, setback should be adjusted in conjunction with saddle height. The 
farther back your saddle is, the lower it should be to keep your leg 
extension relatively constant. If you're experiencing tight hamstrings, 
that might be part of it. I've heard fitters say the ratio is roughly 3:1, 
that is, for every 3mm of increased saddle setback, the seat needs to come 
down 1mm, and vice versa.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 8:24:22 PM UTC-8 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:

> Group , need your thoughts on drop bar fit . I recently bought homer 
> Hilsen ( most recent batch ) . I have short torso but long legs and arms . 
> My height is 5’8.5 ish and pbh is 86.5. I have homer in 54.5 , which has tt 
> of 57.5. I am running a short stem 50mm and nitto m151(75 mm reach) . I am 
> also using nitto lugged seat post , which I understand has a lot of set 
> back.The reach seems to be working fine , however I do find my hamstrings 
> are getting taxed way more than I like compared to my quads especially on 
> climbs in the saddle . My understanding is that homer has a slack seat tube 
> angle of 71.5. Will running a zero set back seatpost help ? Has anybody run 
> zero setback posts on rivs. I understand that general recommendation is to 
> have more set back .
>

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[RBW] Re: Just noticed 2021 Homers have much steeper top tube than older models?

[Jeremy Till]

The updated geometry probably isn't noted on the current website because 
it's actually been in place for a few years--since 2018 at least, since the 
2018 
print catalog 
<https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/2018_Rivendell_Frame_Catalog.pdf?18216627747902060761>
 shows 
the new geometry. The change to the top tube slope isn't the only change, 
the biggest other change being longer chainstays, especially the larger 
sizes. It's part of a general revamp of Rivendell's geometries across the 
board--the same thing happened with the Atlantis, which along with the 
Homer is pretty much the only "legacy" model they still make, albeit with a 
lot of changes.

I, for one, see the reasoning behind the changes (better stability and 
weight distribution, especially when sitting upright), and would encourage 
you to give the new geometry a try. At the same time, I own bikes with both 
the "new" Riv geometry (Clem Smith Jr) and the "classic" Riv geometry 
(Rambouillet), and can understand that if you were expecting the latter and 
got the former, how that would be a bit shocking. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 7:35:13 AM UTC-8 J. W. wrote:

>
> Hi everyone, this is my first post to this forum. After years of coveting 
> a Riv, I ordered a Homer and my dealer expects delivery this spring. As I 
> was just checking geometry to make sure I have a stem of the right length 
> ready for my reach, I noticed that the 2021 model has a considerably 
> steeper slope to the top tube (looks like almost 12 degrees, compared to 6, 
> if bikeinsights has it right). I'm a bit shocked, as I hadn't realised 
> there would be such a difference, and I hadn't read anything about any big 
> changes (I know they posted the measurements, and it's on me for not doing 
> due diligence, but I would have thought such a big change would have 
> warranted mention on the Riv site, with maybe their thinking on why, and 
> perhaps some comparison photos). All my visual reference for what I had to 
> look forward to is now out of date and of course I'm second-guessing 
> myself, maybe I should have ordered a Sam instead -- I'm mostly a 
> one-bike-at-a-time guy and my current bike, which I've ridden for a long 
> time, has a horizontal tube, and I felt 6 degrees was already a big step 
> for me. But, by looking at and admiring a lot of people's builds I came to 
> see the slight slope as a good thing and I embraced my 6-degree-slopey 
> future, step boldly into the future etc.
>
> Looking at the current photos on the Riv site, the Homer and the Sam have 
> exactly the same top-tube slope (if you compare the pictures taken in 
> profile they have models that line up perfectly -- switching back and forth 
> between tabs, once I got them lined up, shows that they are close to 
> identical), and they say there that the photos represent the 2021 geometry. 
> So what's going on? If the stack has been increased by as much as the 
> dimensions in the chart say, there's no way that those photos represent the 
> 2021 geometry accurately. I don't know what to do now! 
>
> What do you think? 
>
> Jon
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell "Shiny" rear rack?

[Jeremy Till]

I bought one for my Clem H and posted my impressions of it on this thread: 

https://groups.google.com/u/0/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/_QuMo5rGQ7E/m/sO9CKEliAAAJ

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 6:46:30 AM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:

> I have not found any opinions / reviews of this rear rack after searching 
> here. Anyone using this rack? Looks a good value.

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[RBW] WTB: Short 31.8mm Quill Stem

[Jeremy Till]

(apologies for the x-post with iBOB)

Hi All, 

I'm in need of a short (50-60mm) extension, tall 1" quill stem for 31.8mm 
bars with a two or four bolt removable faceplate. Currently running a 90mm 
Velo Orange but want something shorter. Something like the Nitto x Crust UI 
Quill stem 
<https://crustbikes.com/collections/stems/products/nitto-x-crust-ui-stem> or 
the Rivendell/Nitto FacePlater 
<https://www.rivbike.com/products/stem-546aah-l982kr>, but the number of 
SKU's in this segment seem to be proliferating so I'm open to other options 
as well. Pretty much every retailer I can think of seems to be out of such 
an item, but if you can point me to an in-stock item I'm happy to buy 
retail as well. Or if you have experience with a custom builder who does 
stand-alone stem orders, I'd be interested in that information also. Black 
is preferred but beggars/choosers etc. so I'm open. 

Thank you!

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA
  

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[RBW] Re: Suggestions for better braking?

[Jeremy Till]

Unfortunately the VO Grand Cru brakes are 47-57mm reach and the sidepull 
Sams were designed for 55-76mm reach brakes. The nomenclature gets 
confusing because for a while the former was the spec for "long reach" 
caliper brakes, until the latter came along. Following Paul Components, who 
used to make versions of the Racer brake for both reach specifications, I 
usually refer to 47-57mm brakes as "medium" or "mid reach" and 55-76mm as 
"long reach" now, but I'm sure that's not universal across the industry. 

As others have noted, in 55-76mm reach the options are very limited, with 
the longer-reach Paul Racer (distinguished from the mid-reach Racer M) 
being the usual upgrade if Tektros aren't cutting it. Unfortunately, the 
longer-reach Racers are now out of production so you're looking for used or 
NOS ones. I think Dia-Compe also makes some centerpull options but I'm 
skeptical if they would be an upgrade over Tektros. 

Personally, as much as I respect Grant, my feeling is that 47-57mm is 
pretty much the reach limit for center-mount caliper brakes; anything 
longer than that and you're really battling flex in the long arms, and 
would be better off going to cantilevers or brazed-on long reach 
centerpulls like the Rene Herse or Grand Bois MAFAC clones.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 8:24:37 AM UTC-8 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ryan,
> Thanks for that...if Jan likes them, I'm sure I would, too. His one gripe, 
> though, is that they don't open up wide enough to clear a 31mm tire. I take 
> off my front wheel to transport my bike to trails...I guess I could just 
> deflate/inflate when I do that. I'll give it some thought.
>
> Thanks again,
> Ben
>
> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 10:11:32 AM UTC-6 Ryan wrote:
>
>> VO Grand Cru brakes are good. Jan Heine reviewed them very favorably 
>> here. Not dead cheap but they're good looking and they work well. I 
>> replaced some Super Record brakes with these paired with TRP RRL's  and I 
>> have no complaints.
>>
>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/product-test-velo-orange-grand-cru-brakes/
>>  
>>
>> I 
>>
>> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 9:24:34 AM UTC-6 Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ben,
>>> For rim brakes, it's hard to beat the power of V-brakes. 
>>>
>>> Side-pull R559 is at a further disadvantage because of the arm length. 
>>> They worked ok on my AHH, but I changed to Paul centerpulls, which seem to 
>>> have more power. I recall reading that VO's Grand Cru brakes work well-- 
>>> perhaps because they're beefier than R559. 
>>>
>>> (Also consider the brake pads. Riv seems to like the "ebike" Kool Stop 
>>> pad.)
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>> shoji
>>> Arlington MA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 10:02:43 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good morning!
>>>> I picked up a 2013 Sam in late October and LOVE it for a billion 
>>>> different reasons.
>>>>
>>>> However...one area where I really prefer my Atlantis is braking. I have 
>>>> the Shimano DXR MX70 levers and v-brakes on the Atlantis and I feel like 
>>>> the stopping power is incredible. This is my commuter bike, set up with 
>>>> chocos for upright riding with lots of stops.
>>>>
>>>> Sam has Shimano Tiagra levers and the Tektro r559 brakes. They just 
>>>> feel a million times weaker. I can stop, but it's a much more gradual 
>>>> experience than the v-brakes. The braking feels squishy. Like...I pull the 
>>>> levers and the pads hit the rims, but I can keep pulling the levers and 
>>>> there's just not much that happens in terms of stopping. It's almost as if 
>>>> not enough force gets transferred into the pads.
>>>>
>>>> The brakes are set up correctly, slight toe-in, arm that moves up 
>>>> toward the rim has pad touching at bottom of braking surface, arm that 
>>>> moves down toward rim has pad at top of braking surface. I think they 
>>>> contact the rim with the appropriate amount of movement of the lever, too.
>>>>
>>>> I'm about to re-do all cables and housings (even though it kind of 
>>>> kills me to undo one of Mark's bar wrap jobs). Any tips on getting a 
>>>> little 
>>>> better braking out of this setup, or are the r559s just going to not be as 
>>>> good as v-brakes no matter how nicely they're set up?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any and all thoughts!
>>>>
>>>> Ben in Omaha 
>>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Show me some bikes with black components

[Jeremy Till]

My Clem H with black bars/stem/seatpost/rims/chainrings:

https://flic.kr/p/2mELwX1

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 11:33:58 AM UTC-8 Patch T wrote:

> I second both these sentiments. Very nice indeed.
>
> On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 1:53:21 PM UTC-5 cycli...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Nice Roadini, Bones.  I'm becoming very partial to black rims with 
>> machined (silver) sidewalls.
>>
>> On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 10:08:35 AM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:
>>
>>> Not a Rivendell but here’s my Kelly Roshambo (now with black pedals). 
>>> The bike itself is kind of a coffee bean color. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 10, 2021, at 09:49, Patch T  wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe Bill Lindsay will show his Amethyst Smoke Legolas with black 
>>> components. I love that bike and the build he chose for it. (I love most of 
>>> Bill's bikes and the builds he chooses for them.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Patch, in NYC, who somehow feels inappropriate linking to someone else's 
>>> Flickr, so won't
>>>  
>>> On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 12:41:12 PM UTC-5 cycli...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reverse order.
>>>> [image: DSCF0130 copy.jpeg]
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 9:40:29 AM UTC-8 David Person wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> [image: DSCF0133 copy.jpeg]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One of each.  Hillborne with mostly silver components (though I really 
>>>>> like the black Dyad Rims with silver braking surface) and Surly Disc 
>>>>> Trucker with a mix of black/silver components.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
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>>>
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0343185e-54d5-497c-af95-0c88f62b0624n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0343185e-54d5-497c-af95-0c88f62b0624n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Looking for Rim Advice

[Jeremy Till]

As others have pointed out, there are ways to try to make mounting a tire 
easier, and if your main goal is a wider tire, there is absolutely no 
problem with putting a 35mm tire on a rim the width of the open pro. On my 
Rambouillet I've maximized the tire size by running Paul Racer M brakes and 
700x40 nominal (37.5mm actual) tires. A 35mm tire would be a great setup, I 
think, and a good balance between tire volume and clearance. Picture 
here: https://flic.kr/p/2kSZxh9 

My rims are Velocity Aeroheads, which are very close in width to Open Pros 
and DT RR 1.1's, if memory serves correctly. I don't experience any 
handling issues with the wide tire/narrow rim combination. I run the 
pressures 40 psi front/55 psi rear, and I've weighed between 225 and 235 
lbs with this setup.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 10:39:16 AM UTC-8 bunny...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey all!
>
> I recently picked up a Rambouillet. I'm really liking it except for the 
> rims. It has an Open Pro and a DT RR 1.1. The DT especially is VERY 
> difficult to mount and unmount tires. Mainly, though, I'd just like to run 
> 35mm tires.
>
> I really like the hubs, and I've built wheels before. I'm looking for rims 
> that I can easily swap out. Not switching spokes is a plus. Right now it 
> seems like Velocity A23 and Mavic A316 both have the same ERD, so I should 
> be able to just swap them on. Any reviews, pros/cons of these rims. Also, 
> is there anything else I should check out?
>
> Cheers!
> Ben
>

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[RBW] Re: Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Jeremy Till]

Great thread Leah! I too love my Clem (first gen "H" frame in green for me) 
and everything it represents about the evolution of Rivendell's designs. I 
became a Rivendell devotee during the "classic" era, lusting after 
Quickbeams, Rambouillets, Atlanti, early Homers, etc. During the later 
aughts and early teens they were already making smaller departures from 
their lugged, level top tube road bike aesthetic (the mixtes, sloping top 
tubes on the Sam, diagatubes on the Bombadil and Hunqapillar, etc.), each 
one decried by the wool jerseyed diehards who had been following Grant 
since the Bridgestone days. I bought my first Rivendell, the classic 
Quickbeam, the same fall they brought out the "Mystery Bikes," the original 
long chainstay bikes, and I have to say I was really intrigued by those 
designs. So much so, in fact, that I spent the next four years trying 
various upright bars on the Quickbeam, but it never seemed to ride as well 
as the Mystery Bikes (two of which, belonging to others, I was lucky enough 
to ride).  

I agree with Leah that with its long chainstays, swoopy tubes, tig welding, 
and really fat tires, the Clem probably represents the biggest single 
departure from Rivendell's "classic" aesthetics, and its success paved the 
way for everything that's come after it in terms of a general opening up of 
what was possible with a Rivendell. For me, that came together in a build 
using mostly black components, including a Thomson seatpost and Jones loop 
h-bar. With this build <https://flic.kr/p/2mELwX1>, it encompasses and goes 
beyond everything I had loved about the Mystery Bikes and had tried to 
replicate unsuccessfully with my Quickbeam. It's no surprise that shortly 
after I built up the Clem, the Quickbeam left my life. Aside from the 
occasional wistful glance over its current owner's Instagram, I don't 
regret it. 

However, to those that see the recent designs as nothing but a fundamental 
departure from what made Grant's designs attractive in the first place, I 
would say that there is one unifying feature running through all of them, 
and that is great handling *for the intended fit of the bike.* As anyone 
who has ridden albatross bars on racing bike can tell you, good handling is 
not just about steering geometry but also how the bike's geometry works 
with your weight distribution and fit. Grant's Bridgestone designs had a 
good reputation for handling, but were pretty much racing bikes that 
assumed low handlebars and a stretched out fit. My feeling is that the 
early Rivendell designs were attempting to replicate these handling 
characteristics but with a fit that was more achievable for non-racers; so 
things like (slightly) longer chainstays went along with drop bars roughly 
even with the saddle. As Grant got older and continued to experiment with 
things like Albatross bars, I'm sure he realized that "classic" Rivendell 
geometry didn't produce the handling characteristics he wanted with a much 
more upright posture, and thus began the experiments with longer chainstays 
that led to the Clem and more recent designs. His success in replicating 
those handling characteristics was evident to me the first time I chased 
friends on road and cross bikes down steep paved descents on Mt. Tam. I had 
never felt so confident in my bike's handling while sitting upright.  

Don't get me wrong, I still love the classic designs as well. A couple of 
years after the Quickbeam left, a green Rambouillet came into my life 
<https://flic.kr/p/2kSZxh9>, and it's built up following the rules, with 
drop bars and lots of silver Nitto and Sugino. With the drop bars and a 
more "athletic" fit than the Clem, it also handles great and is the most 
comfortable "road bike" (in the traditional sense) that I have ever owned. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 9:14:04 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> [image: 84256557-932F-4AD7-99B6-8BE9DC178396.jpeg]Can we talk about the 
> Rivendell Clems for a minute? I hesitate as I write this, because opinions 
> on here tend to be strong, but I see this as a fun topic and worth 
> exploring. We can be nice, even if we disagree. I have been seeing Clems in 
> several colors, in a variety of configurations, all over Instagram. Blue 
> Lug and Helmet Kids are two of my favorite bike Instagram accounts, and 
> they frequently feature Clems on their group rides. Calling In Sick, a bike 
> magazine you’ve likely heard of, did an entire issue on the magic of the 
> Clem, which is also all over Instagram. I suppose it could be that Clem 
> popularity is imagined by me; I personally love Clems and therefore notice 
> them, so I’ll add that caveat here. But I really do think the Clems are 
> having their moment.
>
> When I first discovered Rivendell in 2012 the only social media I knew 
> about w

[RBW] Re: Longshot WTB: Nitto "Longboy" Rear Rack

[Jeremy Till]

Thanks to Garth and others who contacted me off-list with suggestions. To 
close the loop on this thread, after talking to Antonio @ Rivendell and 
confirming that the LongBoy was long gone, I ended up buying one of the new 
"Shiny Rear Racks" when they came into stock last week, and it fits my 
needs perfectly. Its design has the bottom rack tang (where it connects to 
the braze-on near the dropout) centered along the length of the platform, 
so the platform ends up sitting much farther forward that it does on 
something like the 33R. Plus, when using the M6 braze-on slightly up the 
seat stay on the Clem and the upper of the two holes on the bottom rack 
tang, it still has plenty of clearance over 29x2.25" tires. The flat steel 
upper struts aren't as nice as the aluminum struts on a Nitto or Tubus, but 
having installed dozens, maybe hundreds, of racks of this type when I was a 
mechanic, the installation was straightforward. Did my first commute on it 
this morning and it felt totally solid, albeit with a relatively light load 
(my laptop and laptop stand in one Ortlieb pannier). 

Picture: https://flic.kr/p/2mELwX1

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 2:17:39 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> If you can't find a Longboy Jeremy, have you considered using some 
> p-clamps mounted higher on the seatstays with a 32R or any other rack to 
> raise it high enough to clear the tires ? Sure, it won't look "clean" if 
> that matters to you, but it would work. Also, a Tubus rack extension kit 
> may work to raise a rack up and forward. From the image of it, you'd mount 
> it upside down, with the slotted portion at the bottom of the lowest frame 
> eyelet so it would curve up and in. 
> https://www.tubus.com/en/products/accessories-rear-carriers/tubus-product/foot-extension-set
>
> On Monday, October 11, 2021 at 11:56:17 AM UTC-4 Jeremy Till wrote:
>
>> Hey folks, 
>>
>> This is a longshot as WTB posts go but I've had pretty good success 
>> before on the lists before so I thought I'd give it a try. I'm find myself 
>> wanting to put a rear rack on my 59cm Clem. In the past it's worn my 
>> standard Nitto Big Back Rack (33R) but that rack is currently on my LHT and 
>> I'd like to have racks on both bikes. I really like the idea of a rack that 
>> tucks the load closer to the frame and thus more within the wheelbase on 
>> the long chainstay bikes, as I know from experience with longtail cargo 
>> bikes that that is one of the great advantages of such a design. 
>>
>> Rivendell sold such as rack for a short time, the so-called "LongBoy" Big 
>> Rear Rack, basically a modified 33R with a more angled front so it sat 
>> farther forward. If you have one that you no longer need, please let me 
>> know!
>>
>> I think a similar thing could be achieved with the Medium Back Rack (32R) 
>> but I measured last night and it wouldn't be tall enough to clear the 
>> 29x2.25" tires I have on the Clem. 
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -Jeremy Till
>> Sacramento, CA
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Longshot WTB: Nitto "Longboy" Rear Rack

[Jeremy Till]

Hey folks, 

This is a longshot as WTB posts go but I've had pretty good success before 
on the lists before so I thought I'd give it a try. I'm find myself wanting 
to put a rear rack on my 59cm Clem. In the past it's worn my standard Nitto 
Big Back Rack (33R) but that rack is currently on my LHT and I'd like to 
have racks on both bikes. I really like the idea of a rack that tucks the 
load closer to the frame and thus more within the wheelbase on the long 
chainstay bikes, as I know from experience with longtail cargo bikes that 
that is one of the great advantages of such a design. 

Rivendell sold such as rack for a short time, the so-called "LongBoy" Big 
Rear Rack, basically a modified 33R with a more angled front so it sat 
farther forward. If you have one that you no longer need, please let me 
know!

I think a similar thing could be achieved with the Medium Back Rack (32R) 
but I measured last night and it wouldn't be tall enough to clear the 
29x2.25" tires I have on the Clem. 

Thanks!
-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA


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[RBW] Re: LF: Sam Hillborne & Rambouillet Decals

[Jeremy Till]

It looks like Rivendell has a page about repaints and decals, although it's 
not linked in their current website structure so it may be a work in 
progress?

https://www.rivbike.com/pages/repaints-repairs-re-brazeons

Unfortunately, it says that Rambouillet decals are no longer available. I 
also have a Rambouillet with less-than-perfect paint. Generally that kind 
of thing doesn't bother me so I'm not that worried about it, but I have 
thought it would be fun to get it repainted somewhere down the line.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA 

On Saturday, October 2, 2021 at 10:07:49 AM UTC-7 Jurgen Estanislao wrote:

> Looking for spare decals for my SAM and RAM, most especially for my RAM as 
> I am planning on restoring it. 
>
> If anyone happens to have an extra set, please do let me know!
>

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[RBW] Re: FT: 700x50 Soma Cazaderos for something wider

[Jeremy Till]

Hi Matthew, 

Thanks for the offer, but I actually had already found another member to 
whom I traded the Cazaderos for a pair of Schwalbes. The Ardents look like 
great tires (especially love the tan sidewall) but I'm trying not to hoard 
too much at the moment.   

Best,

Jeremy

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 3:54:34 PM UTC-7 Matthew P wrote:

> Hey Jeremy,
>
> Sorry for the delay. I hope I didn't lag too long.
> I scored some 29x2.4" Maxxis Ardents, off David Banzer from Treetop Bags I 
> believe. Had'em on his Clem, doing what you say, maxing out the tire 
> clearance.
> I was going to try them on my Atlantis but I already see they won't fit 
> without shaving'em bald or something.
> It'd make a lot more sense to trade with you. Wanna trade? Pic included. 
> They're a little dirty but appear to be in darn good shape (as I received 
> them).
> If you (or anyone else) wants these but don't have the Cazaderos anymore, 
> I'd be interested in other tires. Basically anything 48 mm wide and above, 
> in 26", 27.5", or 29".
>
> -Matthew
> Kinda wishing all wheels & tires were one size (27.5" or 26")
> and my Atlantis could fit that size at 2.4" wide or maybe even 2.6"
> in San Diego, CA
>
> [image: IMG_20210826_073736.jpg]
>
> On Thursday, July 29, 2021 at 10:51:17 AM UTC-7 Jeremy Till wrote:
>
>> Probably a long shot, but up for trade is one used pair of Soma Cazaderos 
>> in the 700x50 size with tan sidewalls (tubeless compatible). I bought these 
>> used from a list member thinking they'd be good knobbies for my erstwhile 
>> early Hunqapillar. Now that that bike is sold I'd like to trade them for 
>> something that more fully utilizes my Clem's more generous tire clearances, 
>> something in the 700x55-60mm/29x2.2-2.3" range with an XC or gravel type 
>> tread pattern and tubeless compatibility. I'm somewhat agnostic on 
>> suppleness vs. protective casing, especially with tubeless tires.
>>
>> As far as I can tell the previous owner had these set up tubeless so 
>> there is some sealant residue inside the tire and mild tread wear, more 
>> noticeable on one tire than the other (I assume that was on the rear). I 
>> only seated one tire on my rim to check out the sizing but never added 
>> sealant, a tube, or rode them.
>>
>> If you have a pair of tires in as-new condition that you'd be willing to 
>> trade I'd be happy to throw in some cash or other extras into the deal to 
>> make it fair.  
>>
>> Picture here: https://flic.kr/p/2mdYjaw
>>
>> -Jeremy Till
>> Sacramento, CA
>>
>

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[RBW] FT: 700x50 Soma Cazaderos for something wider

[Jeremy Till]

Probably a long shot, but up for trade is one used pair of Soma Cazaderos 
in the 700x50 size with tan sidewalls (tubeless compatible). I bought these 
used from a list member thinking they'd be good knobbies for my erstwhile 
early Hunqapillar. Now that that bike is sold I'd like to trade them for 
something that more fully utilizes my Clem's more generous tire clearances, 
something in the 700x55-60mm/29x2.2-2.3" range with an XC or gravel type 
tread pattern and tubeless compatibility. I'm somewhat agnostic on 
suppleness vs. protective casing, especially with tubeless tires.

As far as I can tell the previous owner had these set up tubeless so there 
is some sealant residue inside the tire and mild tread wear, more 
noticeable on one tire than the other (I assume that was on the rear). I 
only seated one tire on my rim to check out the sizing but never added 
sealant, a tube, or rode them.

If you have a pair of tires in as-new condition that you'd be willing to 
trade I'd be happy to throw in some cash or other extras into the deal to 
make it fair.  

Picture here: https://flic.kr/p/2mdYjaw

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62cm Hunqapillar f/f/hs + extras -- 1st gen, grey/kidney bean, $1,500

[Jeremy Till]

Hunqapillar is sold! Thanks for all the interest. 

-Jeremy Till 
Sacramento, CA 

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 4:19:49 PM UTC-7 duh...@gmail.com wrote:

> Jeremy,
>
> I'll take it, PM incoming.
>
> Jared
>
> On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 10:15:24 AM UTC-7 Jeremy Till wrote:
>
>> One more bump, to say that I'm open to offers. 
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 12:25:08 PM UTC-7 Jeremy Till wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Jim and Chris for the unsolicited chimes-in. Definitely a great 
>>> bike, I just have too many at the moment.
>>>
>>> More data points for the tire kickers: 
>>> -I measured ETT two ways this morning. Using a level to measure straight 
>>> back from the HT/TT junction to the middle of the seatpost, I get a hair 
>>> under 65cm as the ETT. Measuring forward from the seatlug to the headtube 
>>> on the level gets closer to 64cm. I think Rivendell was still figuring out 
>>> sloping TT geometry at the time and there is some confusion about how they 
>>> actually measured ETT. Either way, it's longer than stated in the geometry 
>>> chart.
>>> -Standover with 700x50 Big Bens is 89.5cm at the middle of the TT.
>>>
>>> -Jeremy Till
>>> Sacramento, CA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 6:40:02 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>>>
>>>> Another unsolicited chime-in:  I have a 1st generation gray Hunqapillar 
>>>> and I can confirm that  in the 54cm size, RBW's listed "effective top 
>>>> tube" 
>>>> is the "actual top tube length".  I think the 54 cm is listed at something 
>>>> like a 584 mm ETT when it is in fact, 599.2.   
>>>>
>>>> Also, my 54cm easily accommodates RH Antelope Hill 700 x 55 tires and 
>>>> my frameset is from the very first batch.
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 2:31:23 PM UTC-5 Jeremy Till wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I find myself with one too many bicycles and it's a last in, first out 
>>>>> kind of situation. For sale is a 62cm Hunqapillar frame, fork, and FSA 
>>>>> Orbit headset, and I will throw in the Thomson Elite seatpost and Velo 
>>>>> Orange 63mm fluted fenders. I bought the frame/fork/headset used last 
>>>>> summer, built it up and rode it occasionally for the past ~9 months. The 
>>>>> seatpost and fenders were new as of last Fall. The fenders are basically 
>>>>> installed, and include a hole in the front fender that lines up with the 
>>>>> eyelet on a Nitto 32F front rack for more support. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Stated geometry can be found here: https://flic.kr/p/7NnxMg
>>>>> That also links to the Hunqapillar group on Flickr, which has a number 
>>>>> of shots from the original flyer with other useful information. I suspect 
>>>>> that the top tube is slightly longer than the stated geometry, just from 
>>>>> comparing its fit against my other similarly sized bikes. Being a first 
>>>>> generation, its tire clearance is more limited than the later 
>>>>> generations. 
>>>>> I would say it fits 700x52/29x2.1" without fenders, 700x45 or maybe 
>>>>> slightly wider with fenders, depending on rim width. 
>>>>>
>>>>> It's biggest imperfection is a large chainsuck scar on the drive side 
>>>>> chainstay, which was preexisting when I acquired it. Before building it 
>>>>> up 
>>>>> I sanded it smooth and hit with some spray on clear coat to discourage 
>>>>> rust. In my formerly professional opinion it's not structural concern, 
>>>>> but 
>>>>> like most things, good to keep an eye on. See picture at the link below 
>>>>> below. Aside from that there are a couple of very small shellac drips on 
>>>>> the top and diagatube, otherwise in really good shape.  
>>>>>
>>>>> Pictures of what's for sale here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmW5Fche
>>>>> Pictures of it built up: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQUkEX8 
>>>>> My saddle height is around 790mm for reference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Asking $1,500 for everything pictured. I'm located in Sacramento, CA 
>>>>> and would be happy to do a local exchange here or in the SF Bay Area. Can 
>>>>> also ship at buyer's expense.  
>>>>>
>>>>> Missed out on an Appaloosa? Curious about older, shorter-chainstayed, 
>>>>> fat tire Rivs? Now's your chance. 
>>>>>
>>>>> -Jeremy Till
>>>>> Sacramento, CA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62cm Hunqapillar f/f/hs + extras -- 1st gen, grey/kidney bean, $1,500

[Jeremy Till]

One more bump, to say that I'm open to offers. 

Best,

Jeremy

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 12:25:08 PM UTC-7 Jeremy Till wrote:

> Thanks Jim and Chris for the unsolicited chimes-in. Definitely a great 
> bike, I just have too many at the moment.
>
> More data points for the tire kickers: 
> -I measured ETT two ways this morning. Using a level to measure straight 
> back from the HT/TT junction to the middle of the seatpost, I get a hair 
> under 65cm as the ETT. Measuring forward from the seatlug to the headtube 
> on the level gets closer to 64cm. I think Rivendell was still figuring out 
> sloping TT geometry at the time and there is some confusion about how they 
> actually measured ETT. Either way, it's longer than stated in the geometry 
> chart.
> -Standover with 700x50 Big Bens is 89.5cm at the middle of the TT.
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 6:40:02 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>
>> Another unsolicited chime-in:  I have a 1st generation gray Hunqapillar 
>> and I can confirm that  in the 54cm size, RBW's listed "effective top tube" 
>> is the "actual top tube length".  I think the 54 cm is listed at something 
>> like a 584 mm ETT when it is in fact, 599.2.   
>>
>> Also, my 54cm easily accommodates RH Antelope Hill 700 x 55 tires and my 
>> frameset is from the very first batch.
>>
>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 2:31:23 PM UTC-5 Jeremy Till wrote:
>>
>>> I find myself with one too many bicycles and it's a last in, first out 
>>> kind of situation. For sale is a 62cm Hunqapillar frame, fork, and FSA 
>>> Orbit headset, and I will throw in the Thomson Elite seatpost and Velo 
>>> Orange 63mm fluted fenders. I bought the frame/fork/headset used last 
>>> summer, built it up and rode it occasionally for the past ~9 months. The 
>>> seatpost and fenders were new as of last Fall. The fenders are basically 
>>> installed, and include a hole in the front fender that lines up with the 
>>> eyelet on a Nitto 32F front rack for more support. 
>>>
>>> Stated geometry can be found here: https://flic.kr/p/7NnxMg
>>> That also links to the Hunqapillar group on Flickr, which has a number 
>>> of shots from the original flyer with other useful information. I suspect 
>>> that the top tube is slightly longer than the stated geometry, just from 
>>> comparing its fit against my other similarly sized bikes. Being a first 
>>> generation, its tire clearance is more limited than the later generations. 
>>> I would say it fits 700x52/29x2.1" without fenders, 700x45 or maybe 
>>> slightly wider with fenders, depending on rim width. 
>>>
>>> It's biggest imperfection is a large chainsuck scar on the drive side 
>>> chainstay, which was preexisting when I acquired it. Before building it up 
>>> I sanded it smooth and hit with some spray on clear coat to discourage 
>>> rust. In my formerly professional opinion it's not structural concern, but 
>>> like most things, good to keep an eye on. See picture at the link below 
>>> below. Aside from that there are a couple of very small shellac drips on 
>>> the top and diagatube, otherwise in really good shape.  
>>>
>>> Pictures of what's for sale here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmW5Fche
>>> Pictures of it built up: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQUkEX8 
>>> My saddle height is around 790mm for reference.
>>>
>>> Asking $1,500 for everything pictured. I'm located in Sacramento, CA and 
>>> would be happy to do a local exchange here or in the SF Bay Area. Can also 
>>> ship at buyer's expense.  
>>>
>>> Missed out on an Appaloosa? Curious about older, shorter-chainstayed, 
>>> fat tire Rivs? Now's your chance. 
>>>
>>> -Jeremy Till
>>> Sacramento, CA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62cm Hunqapillar f/f/hs + extras -- 1st gen, grey/kidney bean, $1,500

[Jeremy Till]

Thanks Jim and Chris for the unsolicited chimes-in. Definitely a great 
bike, I just have too many at the moment.

More data points for the tire kickers: 
-I measured ETT two ways this morning. Using a level to measure straight 
back from the HT/TT junction to the middle of the seatpost, I get a hair 
under 65cm as the ETT. Measuring forward from the seatlug to the headtube 
on the level gets closer to 64cm. I think Rivendell was still figuring out 
sloping TT geometry at the time and there is some confusion about how they 
actually measured ETT. Either way, it's longer than stated in the geometry 
chart.
-Standover with 700x50 Big Bens is 89.5cm at the middle of the TT.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA



On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 6:40:02 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:

> Another unsolicited chime-in:  I have a 1st generation gray Hunqapillar 
> and I can confirm that  in the 54cm size, RBW's listed "effective top tube" 
> is the "actual top tube length".  I think the 54 cm is listed at something 
> like a 584 mm ETT when it is in fact, 599.2.   
>
> Also, my 54cm easily accommodates RH Antelope Hill 700 x 55 tires and my 
> frameset is from the very first batch.
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 2:31:23 PM UTC-5 Jeremy Till wrote:
>
>> I find myself with one too many bicycles and it's a last in, first out 
>> kind of situation. For sale is a 62cm Hunqapillar frame, fork, and FSA 
>> Orbit headset, and I will throw in the Thomson Elite seatpost and Velo 
>> Orange 63mm fluted fenders. I bought the frame/fork/headset used last 
>> summer, built it up and rode it occasionally for the past ~9 months. The 
>> seatpost and fenders were new as of last Fall. The fenders are basically 
>> installed, and include a hole in the front fender that lines up with the 
>> eyelet on a Nitto 32F front rack for more support. 
>>
>> Stated geometry can be found here: https://flic.kr/p/7NnxMg
>> That also links to the Hunqapillar group on Flickr, which has a number of 
>> shots from the original flyer with other useful information. I suspect that 
>> the top tube is slightly longer than the stated geometry, just from 
>> comparing its fit against my other similarly sized bikes. Being a first 
>> generation, its tire clearance is more limited than the later generations. 
>> I would say it fits 700x52/29x2.1" without fenders, 700x45 or maybe 
>> slightly wider with fenders, depending on rim width. 
>>
>> It's biggest imperfection is a large chainsuck scar on the drive side 
>> chainstay, which was preexisting when I acquired it. Before building it up 
>> I sanded it smooth and hit with some spray on clear coat to discourage 
>> rust. In my formerly professional opinion it's not structural concern, but 
>> like most things, good to keep an eye on. See picture at the link below 
>> below. Aside from that there are a couple of very small shellac drips on 
>> the top and diagatube, otherwise in really good shape.  
>>
>> Pictures of what's for sale here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmW5Fche
>> Pictures of it built up: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQUkEX8 
>> My saddle height is around 790mm for reference.
>>
>> Asking $1,500 for everything pictured. I'm located in Sacramento, CA and 
>> would be happy to do a local exchange here or in the SF Bay Area. Can also 
>> ship at buyer's expense.  
>>
>> Missed out on an Appaloosa? Curious about older, shorter-chainstayed, fat 
>> tire Rivs? Now's your chance. 
>>
>> -Jeremy Till
>> Sacramento, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62cm Hunqapillar f/f/hs + extras -- 1st gen, grey/kidney bean, $1,500

[Jeremy Till]

Hi All, 

Just bumping this. A lot of interest but no takers yet. To answer one 
common question: my PBH, as best as I can remember (it's been about 10 
years since I measured it), is ~96cm, but I run my saddle lower than the 
Rivendell recommendation. Let me know if I can answer any other questions!

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 12:31:23 PM UTC-7 Jeremy Till wrote:

> I find myself with one too many bicycles and it's a last in, first out 
> kind of situation. For sale is a 62cm Hunqapillar frame, fork, and FSA 
> Orbit headset, and I will throw in the Thomson Elite seatpost and Velo 
> Orange 63mm fluted fenders. I bought the frame/fork/headset used last 
> summer, built it up and rode it occasionally for the past ~9 months. The 
> seatpost and fenders were new as of last Fall. The fenders are basically 
> installed, and include a hole in the front fender that lines up with the 
> eyelet on a Nitto 32F front rack for more support. 
>
> Stated geometry can be found here: https://flic.kr/p/7NnxMg
> That also links to the Hunqapillar group on Flickr, which has a number of 
> shots from the original flyer with other useful information. I suspect that 
> the top tube is slightly longer than the stated geometry, just from 
> comparing its fit against my other similarly sized bikes. Being a first 
> generation, its tire clearance is more limited than the later generations. 
> I would say it fits 700x52/29x2.1" without fenders, 700x45 or maybe 
> slightly wider with fenders, depending on rim width. 
>
> It's biggest imperfection is a large chainsuck scar on the drive side 
> chainstay, which was preexisting when I acquired it. Before building it up 
> I sanded it smooth and hit with some spray on clear coat to discourage 
> rust. In my formerly professional opinion it's not structural concern, but 
> like most things, good to keep an eye on. See picture at the link below 
> below. Aside from that there are a couple of very small shellac drips on 
> the top and diagatube, otherwise in really good shape.  
>
> Pictures of what's for sale here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmW5Fche
> Pictures of it built up: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQUkEX8 
> My saddle height is around 790mm for reference.
>
> Asking $1,500 for everything pictured. I'm located in Sacramento, CA and 
> would be happy to do a local exchange here or in the SF Bay Area. Can also 
> ship at buyer's expense.  
>
> Missed out on an Appaloosa? Curious about older, shorter-chainstayed, fat 
> tire Rivs? Now's your chance. 
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] FS: 62cm Hunqapillar f/f/hs + extras -- 1st gen, grey/kidney bean, $1,500

[Jeremy Till]

I find myself with one too many bicycles and it's a last in, first out kind 
of situation. For sale is a 62cm Hunqapillar frame, fork, and FSA Orbit 
headset, and I will throw in the Thomson Elite seatpost and Velo Orange 
63mm fluted fenders. I bought the frame/fork/headset used last summer, 
built it up and rode it occasionally for the past ~9 months. The seatpost 
and fenders were new as of last Fall. The fenders are basically installed, 
and include a hole in the front fender that lines up with the eyelet on a 
Nitto 32F front rack for more support. 

Stated geometry can be found here: https://flic.kr/p/7NnxMg
That also links to the Hunqapillar group on Flickr, which has a number of 
shots from the original flyer with other useful information. I suspect that 
the top tube is slightly longer than the stated geometry, just from 
comparing its fit against my other similarly sized bikes. Being a first 
generation, its tire clearance is more limited than the later generations. 
I would say it fits 700x52/29x2.1" without fenders, 700x45 or maybe 
slightly wider with fenders, depending on rim width. 

It's biggest imperfection is a large chainsuck scar on the drive side 
chainstay, which was preexisting when I acquired it. Before building it up 
I sanded it smooth and hit with some spray on clear coat to discourage 
rust. In my formerly professional opinion it's not structural concern, but 
like most things, good to keep an eye on. See picture at the link below 
below. Aside from that there are a couple of very small shellac drips on 
the top and diagatube, otherwise in really good shape.  

Pictures of what's for sale here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmW5Fche
Pictures of it built up: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQUkEX8 
My saddle height is around 790mm for reference.

Asking $1,500 for everything pictured. I'm located in Sacramento, CA and 
would be happy to do a local exchange here or in the SF Bay Area. Can also 
ship at buyer's expense.  

Missed out on an Appaloosa? Curious about older, shorter-chainstayed, fat 
tire Rivs? Now's your chance. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA




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[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Jeremy Till]

Assuming your bike hasn't been repainted or got a custom paint job, I think 
the easiest way to tell it's age is from the paint colors. The first couple 
of runs had the grey main tubes with either "kidney bean" red or orange 
head tubes/accents. The later ones were a green color with cream headtubes. 
The early ones also had more limited tire clearance and maxed out around 
2.1" tires, whereas later ones could fit wider than that. I think the early 
ones used the same fork crowns as the Atlantis at the time while later ones 
got a wider dedicated crown and wider stays.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA


On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-7 Nikko in Oakland wrote:

> Hey y’all,
>
> Just out of curiosity... How do I know what year and location my Hunq was 
> manufactured in? Any particular details I should look at? Is there a Hunq 
> manufacturing timeline somewhere? 
>
> Nikko in Oakland 

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[RBW] Re: Clem H sizing, availability

[Jeremy Till]

I have pretty much exactly the same PBH as you and I ride a 59cm first-gen 
Clem H. However, I ride my saddle a few cm lower than the Rivendell 
recommendation--around 78.5-79cm from crank bolt to top of saddle, 
depending on crank length. I have tight hamstrings and use a mid-foot 
pedaling position with flat pedals, and this saddle height has worked well 
for me for a number of years. Here's a picture of my Clem H to give you a 
sense of seatpost and stem extension. Where the bars clamp to the stem, 
they are ~4cm above the saddle nose

https://flic.kr/p/2iaCxSi

All that being said, my understanding is that Rivendell has no intention of 
doing another run of Clem H's. I don't think they ever sold as well as the 
L models. So at this point you're probably looking for one on the used 
market.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:28:41 PM UTC-7 Kevin wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I am semi in the market for a Clem H and am looking for some first person 
> thoughts on fit. I worry I am in between the 59 and the massive 65. Can 
> anybody who has ridden either or both of those chime in with their 
> measurements and how the bikes felt? I think the proper solution to this 
> problem is to just get the 64 L but I am just not sympatico with the 
> aesthetics there.
>
> I'm about a 95-96 PBH and ride a 62 Sam pretty comfortably with drops, 
> would prefer more reach every time I've set it up with flats.
>
> Also, the bike seems to have been excised from the models section of Riv's 
> site. Anyone know if they are planning on only offering the step through 
> model moving forward?
>
> Thanks!
>

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Re: [RBW] Fattest Tire on a QB?

[Jeremy Till]

Like John G I maxed out my orange QB with 700x45 Specialized Fatboys 
shortly before I sold it. Here's a set of pictures I took for the buyer 
showing the clearance: 

https://flic.kr/s/aHskJEmRH3

It looks like chainstay clearance was the limiting factor. If I remember 
correctly these measured a little narrower than marked on H Plus Son TB14 
rims.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 10:13:08 AM UTC-7 John G wrote:

> Specialized Fatboy 45s, although I've recently gone back to 32s
> https://flic.kr/p/2hFGfWf
>
> John G
> Union Bridge, MD
>
> On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 9:52:45 AM UTC-4 Patch T wrote:
>
>> Edit: by ROSE I meant RACE. The names are confusing to me still.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 9:45:11 AM UTC-4 Patch T wrote:
>>
>>> The largest I've confidently fit on my orange 56 were Soma Cazadero 42s, 
>>> Dyad rims, wheel around the back-middle of the dropouts. 
>>> I never tried any wider, as the chainstay clearance looks like the max 
>>> for my piece of mind. (I like riding it on rougher stuff than paved stuff, 
>>> so a hairline clearance is not an option for me)
>>>
>>> I'd be willing to bet that the UDs will fit. AND I may end up doing the 
>>> same move once I put the QB back together. I have the 650b ROSE "mullet" 
>>> set-up on my custom Bantam and the combination of knobs in front and file 
>>> tread in back is super fun on trails, good enough on pavement.
>>>
>>> Patch
>>> BK/NY
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 11:03:46 PM UTC-4 Jim M. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I had Big Apple 50s on mine. Fit was maybe a little tight but no paint 
>>>> rubbed off, so I think it was good.
>>>>
>>>> jim m
>>>> walnut creek, ca
>>>>
>>>> [image: 3448531380_84086b5829_c (1).jpg]
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 3:56:33 PM UTC-7 mkernan...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> RG,   I used to be able to fit BG rock n roads ( 700x43) on my Orange 
>>>>> 64 QB a few years back with the wheel in the middle to rear of the 
>>>>> dropouts.   And the RnRs have some decent side knobs to take into 
>>>>> account. 
>>>>>  Not sure of exact mm clearance on each side but it was fine.-Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 11:56 AM, Robert Gardner  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone --
>>>>>
>>>>> I recently saw a post on Instagram (which I have subsequently 
>>>>> lost track of) that showed a QB rocking Ultradynamico 700ccs (I think 
>>>>> they 
>>>>> were the Rosè racers). 
>>>>>
>>>>> As I am in the market for some new rubber I thought -- WOWZA -- that 
>>>>> would be fun. So, I'm throwing myself at the mercy of the few the proud 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> QB riders on this list. What's the fattest you've been able to go on a QB 
>>>>> (if it helps, I ride a 58...)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks all --
>>>>>
>>>>> RGinDC
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAO1DKXtqvXAQ%2BUpWPC3s%2Br82b_K2jfB-Wo24j_E0PFhmSAkhFQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>  
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAO1DKXtqvXAQ%2BUpWPC3s%2Br82b_K2jfB-Wo24j_E0PFhmSAkhFQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Basically new MUSA Pants/BYK-R-SLAX, size XL, $60

[Jeremy Till]

Pants are sold.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 9:34:16 AM UTC-8 Jeremy Till wrote:

> For sale is one pair of the current Rivendell/MUSA Pants, now renamed 
> BYK-R-SLAX, size XL, as described here: 
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/clothing/products/musa-pants
>
> I'd been curious to try these out for a long time so ordered a pair when 
> they were recently restocked, but it turns out they're not for me. 
> Unpacked, worn for a hike, then washed. Pics of the actual pants here: 
>
> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmUyqJNk
>
> Asking $60, plus actual shipping if we're doing that. I'm located in 
> Sacramento, CA and would also do a local sale, and could probably drop them 
> off in the East Bay next weekend (3/6-7).  
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Sacramento, CA
>
>

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[RBW] FS: Basically new MUSA Pants/BYK-R-SLAX, size XL, $60

[Jeremy Till]

For sale is one pair of the current Rivendell/MUSA Pants, now renamed 
BYK-R-SLAX, size XL, as described here: 

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/clothing/products/musa-pants

I'd been curious to try these out for a long time so ordered a pair when 
they were recently restocked, but it turns out they're not for me. 
Unpacked, worn for a hike, then washed. Pics of the actual pants here: 

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmUyqJNk

Asking $60, plus actual shipping if we're doing that. I'm located in 
Sacramento, CA and would also do a local sale, and could probably drop them 
off in the East Bay next weekend (3/6-7).  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Re: Rambouillet bottom bracket?

[Jeremy Till]

As Garth notes, the difference between the 107mm and 110mm Shimano bottom 
brackets is only on the non-drive side, so it shouldn't make an difference 
in terms of chainring clearance and chainline/front derailleur function. 
For a while Harris cyclery had a table showing the drive side lengths of 
the various Shimano UN sizes which was very useful for these types of 
questions. A while back I was having trouble finding it so I swiped it from 
the internet wayback machine and put it in my google docs. I've made it 
available here: 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P_vtPEYTCqiFONC7WQU8ISvvrAwQ-gc9__lNECxlqgs/edit?usp=sharing
 

Theory aside, I have both a Rambouillet and a early (Grey/Kidney Bean) 
Hunqapillar with XD2 triples. I've never pulled the BB on the Rambouillet 
so I don't know it's length, but if I had to guess I'd say it was 110mm. 
The Hunqapillar, which I built up recently, has a Tange 107mm BB and that 
works fine. Given that the Hunqapillar has much wider spaced chainstays 
than the Rambouillet, I think it's safe to assume that if the 107mm bb 
works with the XD2 triple on the Hunqapillar, it'd work on the Rambouillet. 

I'm kind of agnostic when it comes to things like Q factor and crank 
length. I'm not going to say I can't feel a difference, but it doesn't 
really seem to have an effect on my riding experience. That being said I 
have relatively long legs so it may be more of an issue for people with 
shorter legs.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 10:02:08 PM UTC-8 robert peterson wrote:

> I am building up a Rambouillet frame that I bought a couple of months ago. 
> The seller kindly included a Dura Ace crankset but I don’t see my 65 year 
> old legs spinning that 53 tooth ring for very long. I have a Sugino XD2 
> triple with 48/36/24 rings that I pulled off my Saluki a couple of years 
> ago in favor of a 46/30 double. I was getting some knee and hip pain on 
> longer rides and the narrower tread width seemed to cure that. I have a 
> Rambouillet brochure that indicates Riv shipped them with a 110mm BB. In  a 
> Rivendell catalog they state the XD2 works on a road bike with a 107 or 
> 110mm BB. Has anyone on this list used a 107mm BB on a Ram with this common 
> crankset? Since I seem to do better with a narrower tread width this is of 
> interest to me.
> Thanks,
> Robert
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bizarre Winter Weather

[Jeremy Till]

Good stuff! I myself was able to get my first shot on Wednesday here in 
California. I used my car for the drive-through mass vaccination site at 
our state fairgrounds, but wondered if they would have let me through on a 
bicycle. 

-Jeremy Till 
Sacramento, CA

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 9:34:36 AM UTC-8 philipr...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Today's Dallas' exploit was the unexpected email that I could get a COVID 
> vaccine. Of course I was the only bike in line, some consternation about 
> whether they could allow it but a Dallas Police Officer decided that I was 
> a vehicle in their eyes & could go ahead! Of course, all the staff 
> volunteers wanted to chat about it too.
>
> [image: PXL_20210224_160700384.jpg]
>
> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 11:32:02 AM UTC-6 Philip Barrett wrote:
>
>> There's another great brewery on the island - https://skyeale.com/ale/
>>
>> Started by 2 friends who realized they were spending way too much on 
>> other brewer's beer & they should do something about it!
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 10:17:15 AM UTC-6 ericf3 wrote:
>>
>>> One of my favorite radio comedies, Cabin Pressure, has several 
>>> references to Talisker...
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_Pressure_(radio_series)
>>>
>>> https://www.comedy.co.uk/radio/cabin_pressure/
>>>
>>> Riv-related content: none, sorry
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] 19-year old Riv

[Jeremy Till]

Short answer: they do. 

https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/brake-levers/long-pull/love-lever/

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 9:16:21 AM UTC-8 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Those PAUL brake levers are just plain dope. Wowza. 
>
> Ben "Checking to See if Paul Makes those for V-Brakes" in Omaha
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 11:11 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Forgot to add that my Joe Starck 26" wheel fixie gofast road custom is 
>> getting on for 22 years next April. It gets ridden less these days than the 
>> dirt road bikes or the new Matthews fixed/3 speed road bike, but I took it 
>> out yesterday and man, once again as always over the years, it just feels 
>> (1) comfortable like well broken in, high-quality shoes, and (2) just is 
>> easy to pedal. Like coming home.
>>
>> James: Your custom is getting on for 18 years. 2021 - 2003 = 18. That's 
>> all right, it will grow up.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:08 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> Very nice!
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:13 AM James Valiensi  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I’ve had my Rivendell custom since Feb 2003. It’s been thru several 
>>>> iterations. I just fitted the Losco handle bars and long stem. The red 
>>>> pedals are hideous, don’t you think? 
>>>>
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>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
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>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgtd6C6MGxK8sGTm7JUCb-skLo02oPD7xO0xiDHiZFiR0Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
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>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Reverse Levers with Linear-Pull Brakes?

[Jeremy Till]

I can confirm that those are the Paul levers with two pivot positions that 
can be set for long-pull brakes. Both pictures show them in the short pull 
setting, the lower hole would be used for long pull. The pivots are secured 
with little c-clips that allow removal and repositioning.  

Back when I was working as a mechanic I did a custom build of a Surly Disc 
Trucker with Porteur bars for a customer. We kept the stock long-pull Avid 
BB7 brakes and decided to go with these for the levers (they were still in 
production at the time). Like everything Paul they were super high quality 
and relatively easy to set up. My only memory is that it was hard to get 
the "bite point" right where I wanted it--the pads hit the rotor when the 
lever was just a little closer to the bar than I would prefer, but they 
offered fine braking once they did and the customer was happy with them. 
That issue may or may not present itself with v-brakes.  

Paul Components definitely do their part to support tiny niches (142mm thru 
axle fixed gear hubs, anyone?) but I think these were probably fringe even 
for them. They probably only made sense right at the height of the fixie 
boom when bullhorn handlebars were more popular and reverse levers of all 
types probably sold better. Even then how many bikes with reverse levers 
use long-pull brakes? 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA 

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 9:36:16 AM UTC-8 Matthew Williams wrote:

> Thanks very much, everyone. Jay--are these the dual-pivot Paul levers to 
> which you're referring?
>
> 1: 
> [image: lever_silver.jpg]
>
> 2:
> [image: lever_black.jpg]
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 9:52:59 PM UTC-8 Jay Lonner wrote:
>
>> I never owned a pair, but as I recall they had a dual pivot design that 
>> would accommodate both short- and long-reach brakes. I actually wrote Paul 
>> directly and asked whether he had any kicking around, or would consider 
>> making them again. The answer was "no" to both questions, so the used 
>> market is really the only option.
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 9:10:18 PM UTC-8 Matthew Williams wrote:
>>
>>> Will the Paul reverse levers work with linear-pull/v-brakes?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:50 AM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>>
>>> I used to run reverse levers with ‘cross-style interrupters on Boscos on 
>>> my Hunq. I liked this setup ok - to me the Achilles’ heel was that the 
>>> non-moosey Boscos were too flexy. The Tektro levers that I had (and still 
>>> have, somewhere in my parts stash) don’t work with V-brakes though. Paul 
>>> used to make reverse levers that I think were adjustable, but they’ve been 
>>> out of production for years - no doubt available at a premium on eBay. 
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>>
>>> On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:28 AM, Matthew Williams  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> I've been looking into using reverse levers with linear-pull brakes. I 
>>> want to mount the levers on the ends of a Bullmoose or Boscomoose bar, and 
>>> run the cables inside the handlebars.
>>>
>>> Is this possible? Can reverse levers be used with linear-pull brakes? If 
>>> you have this setup, or you've ridden a bike with reverse levers, did you 
>>> like it?
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> .
>>>
>>>
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>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Weirdest Rivendell ideas?

[Jeremy Till]

My two nominations would be: 

1. For a while they were selling a wind "shield" that was essentially a 
vest without any back, just weights (IIRC) that hung over the top of your 
shoulders. The idea was that the wind would do most of the work holding it 
in place. Seems like it was designed around a fairly narrow use case, that 
being descending Mt. Diablo on a chilly morning after a S240. One step 
above stuffing newspaper down your jersey.
2. Wood grips, which I think they sold around 2007 or so. Not cork, not 
faux wood, just plain carved hardwood, no shock absorption to speak of. I 
think they had a vaguely ergonomic shape.  

I'm not saying either of these was a bad idea per se, just the kind of 
out-of-left field stuff for which Rivendell is known. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 4:59:41 AM UTC-7 John Hawrylak wrote:

> Half Mitts may be weird but they really work.  I bought a pair of Half 
> mitts (with thumb) from a list member.  Use then in cooler weather and 
> winter, and they work GREAT.  Hands stay nice and warm and are easier than 
> regular gloves to take off..  I think the wind blocking goes a long way to 
> helping hands stay warm and the inside fur is a nice touch, not technical 
> like most riding gloves have.
>
> If anyone has another pair (weird or not) and not using, I'm an interested 
> buyer.
>
> John hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>
> On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 10:35:26 AM UTC-4, Edwin W wrote:
>>
>> Splats and Half Mitts have to be up there.
>> Half mitts with the thumb I find are actually pretty useful things to 
>> have around, take up little space and weigh very little. Never got the 
>> splats, but I see their (dorky) practicality!
>>
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>> On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 6:43:36 PM UTC-5 J L wrote:
>>
>>> Remember Foss tubes? I like that Riv has always tried to be out of the 
>>> box. Stick shifting? 
>>>
>>> What are some of the other head scratcher ideas and products from 
>>> yesteryear? None of them have ever been dumb. 
>>>
>>> This is in praise of creative thinking and taking chances. 
>>>
>>> Cheers 
>>> Jason
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62 CM Hunqapillar and other goodies.

[Jeremy Till]

Hi Zack, 

I'm interested in the frame/fork and probably the seatpost. It seems PM's 
are disabled in this wonderful new google groups interface so please email 
me at jeremy dot till at gmail dot com. 

Thanks,

Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 3:14:41 PM UTC-7 Zack wrote:

> I am FINALLY getting around to selling my 62 cm hunq frame and fork. Let 
> me know if you know anyone who might be interested. Enough wear and tear 
> and beausage so that you know someone actually rode it, but pretty amazing 
> shape. I dripped some shellac on one of the downtubes. *$1500.*
>
> Also have a Nitto big front rack, same thing, a few dings here and there 
> but p great shape. *$150*
>
> Nitto S83 Seat Post, not sure the exact size, but it fit the Hunq,* $85*
>
> Paul Touring Canti Brake, Silver* $75*
>
> Paul Neo Retro Brake, Silver* $75*
>
> These prices don't include shipping, will figure out whatever shipping 
> costs are and pass them along to you. If you want the Hunq and don't live 
> in Portland, I will try and find a place to box and ship. More pics, but 
> couldn't figure out how to get them to post. [image: IMG_1895.jpg]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem L arrived, couple of thoughts and questions

[Jeremy Till]

I'd agree that the twitchyness was from riding too small a bike. I'm taller 
than you and have a first generation 59cm Clem H and find it to be one of 
the most planted (but still nimble) bikes I've ridden; that being said the 
front end geometry has changed slightly in the most recent generations.  

My thought with the the multiple rack mounts is probably that the dropouts 
are a standard item, not specific to Clems, that come with rack mounts cast 
in, but Rivendell also wanted to include a more forward rack mounting 
location that allows you to take more advantage of the long stays and have 
the weight on the rack more centered within the wheelbase of the bike, 
instead of hanging off the back (see also: "longtail" cargo bikes). Thus 
they added the mounts on the stays. At that point you do have more 
braze-ons than needed but there's no point in having the factory cut off 
the extra ones, and you could use them for creative uses (light mounts?).  

Wheels such as this are generally built at a factory by a machine. I think 
they just load the nipple hopper with multiple colors when they build these 
ones.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA


On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 8:30:38 AM UTC-7 Kurt Henry wrote:

> I asked a while back about a small bike suggestion for my son's mom, 
> followed by a WTB for a 45cm Clem-L.  No leads turned up, so I got in line 
> for the presale.  And it finally showed up today!
>
> We went with the green, which I had read was a very interesting color that 
> doesn't photograph well.  I'll second (third?  fourth?) that comment.  Such 
> a cool bronzey-browney-green that seems to change color in different 
> light.  I got it put together and took it for a short spin to make sure the 
> shifting and braking were all set before I handed it over.  Shifting was 
> great and the braking was as well once I cleared a minor hurdle: the front 
> brake cable was fine for length, but was routed behind the fork.  I thought 
> maybe I'd managed to loop it under the fork leg when I got the bars out.  
> But for the life of me I couldn't get it looped back around.  No big deal, 
> loosen clamp, move cable to correct side, reattach, and ready to roll.
>
> The bike is definitely too small for me at almost 5'10". On the road it 
> was very smooth and well behaved.  The steering was really light, but 
> that's probably not helped by the extended seatpost and slack seat tube 
> pushing me back out toward the back.  I did take it through some gravel at 
> the park behind our house before looping around.  Slow speed in the gravel 
> was really dicey and twitchy.  I was about to hop off to avoid taking a 
> spill and scratching it before she got to ride it it.  Not at all what I 
> was expecting!  But back out on the road, it was a very nice ride.
>
> After the quick shakedown, the key item of the day was dropping the seat 
> back down to Jenni's height and letting her take it for a spin.  She LOVED 
> it!!  So, end of the day, mission accomplished.
>
> Now, a couple of questions.  Just when I think I've been around the block 
> a few times around bikes, this one has a few braze-ons I did not expect.  
> There are tabs on the front of the seat stays, going straight into the stay 
> (vs. hourglasses).  What are those for?  And the rear dropouts have more 
> eyelets than I can imagine a use for.  I can see the ones part way up the 
> seatstays as intended for a rack, to stay out of the way of fenders (or 
> perhaps I have that backwards).  But what are the extra eyelets behind the 
> rear dropout intended for?
>
> Finally, who builds the wheels for the production bikes?  I'm assuming 
> they're machine built to hit the price point.  But I was surprised to find 
> a rainbow of colors for the nipples.  Totally unexpected, and a very nice 
> surprise!
>
> Thanks all!
> Kurt Henry
> Lancaster, Pennsylvania USA
>
> P.S. Yes, I know, the bike is turned the wrong way, should be drive side.  
> I was about to set the kickstand on the downhill side (toward me), realized 
> it was too steep, so let it rest the other way against Jenni's jeep for a 
> quick picture.  Had to get inside and get dinner going!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 61cm Bleriot

[Jeremy Till]

Hi Daniel, 

Out of curiosity, what is the saddle height in your pictures? 61cm is 
probably too small for me but as a former aviation buff the idea of a 
airplane-themed Rivendell has always intrigued me. I do run my saddle on 
the low side for my height so I'm wondering if I could make it work.  

Thanks,

Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA 

On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 9:26:24 AM UTC-7 Daniel wrote:

> I'm selling my 61cm Bleriot which is set up as a fast all arounder. It's a 
> beautiful bike and a lovely build. For my PBH (91cm), I have more than the 
> requisite fistful of seatpost, but the fit works for me. There are some 
> signs of wear on the frame, but not dents or areas I'm worried about. It's 
> interesting to note that the write up in RR37 makes mention of fitting 46mm 
> Golden Boy knobbies and recent experiments (not mine) have fit the 47mm 
> WTBs and 48mm Rene Herse tires.
>
> Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/yQMH6RsVTBWYidqu6
>
> Asking $1,500 complete (details below on build and a few discounts if you 
> forgo a few components) + actual shipping (via ShipBike, insured). Or no 
> shipping if we can meet in SoCal. I have a bike box and packing supplies on 
> hand, plus a good friend who's an expert bike packer that I can enlist for 
> help.
>
> Thank you for looking! 
>
> Daniel
> Yorba Linda, CA 
>
> Details:
>
> Frameset:
> 61cm Bleriot
> A few paint nicks, not dents
>
> Full geo:
> Seat tube: 61cm CTT / 59cm CTC
> Top tube: 59 CTC
> 67mm BB drop
> 2* TT upslope
> 85.1cm standover @ middle of TT (approx.)
> 72* STA
> 71* HTA
> 50mm rake - if you're playing along at home, that's 57mm of trail on 42mm 
> tires
> 44.5cm chainstays
>
> Cockpit:
> Nitto stem (measures 9.5cm CTC)
> Nitto 115 bars (measures 40cm CTC)
> Cane Creek SCR-5 aero brake levers with gum hoods
> Newbaums cloth tape with twine, shellaced
>
> Drivetrain:
> Suntour barcons
> Shimano Deore LX rear derailleur
> Shimano CS-HG40 11-32T 8 speed cassette...nearly NOS
> Nearly new chain
> Suntour Cyclone front derailleur
> Sugino AT 110/74 BCD triple crank (drilled for triple; set up as 48-36 
> double)
> IRD bottom bracket (which I know because I can see that through the hole 
> in the BB shell!)
> MKS Grip King/Lambda pedals
>
> Lounge:
> VO Grand Cru seatpost
> Brooks Swallow saddle - If you don't want it, I'll knock off $100 (these 
> are running $200ish new) and put a white Ritchey saddle on in its place.
>
> Wheels/Tires
> Handbuilt & nearly new
> Ambrosio rims
> Deore M525 hubs (large flanges for stronger wheels, also 6-bolt-disc 
> compatible…so this wheelset can do double duty on a QR-disc bike)
> Wheelsmith butted spokes
> Soma 'Grand Randonneur' tires. White, nearly new. (look great with the 
> cream headbadge. If you're willing to replace these for some all black 42mm 
> Panaracers, I'll knock off $60.)
>
> Braking:
> Cane Creek SCR-5 levers
> 'Silver' long reach (same/similar as Tektro R559) with KoolStop Salmon pads
>
> Accessories:
> Velo Orange porteur rack with rail included. If you don't want the rack, 
> I'll knock off $100 since these are running $165 new. For non-local (SoCal) 
> buyers, I'd prefer to sell without the rack due to the rack width and the 
> box dimensions. I guess I could pull the rack of and ship that in a 2nd 
> box, but I don't think I have a box on hand that the rack will fit.
>
> Not included:
> Water bottle cages
>
>

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[RBW] Are there different sizes of 1" threaded headset?

[Jeremy Till]

This is the only 1" Fairweather headset I could find, and it's threadless, not 
threaded. Is this the headset you bought?

https://global.bluelug.com/fairweather-headset-1inch-matt-black.html

To answer your original question, there are a number of 1" threaded headset 
sizes:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-headsets.html

These days the ISO standard is by far the most common and to my knowledge 
that's what all Rivendells with threaded headsets use. But you can still buy 
headsets in other standards (most commonly JIS) so it's important to know your 
frame and fork dimensions when buying one.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] WTB: Nitto 32f Campee Mini Front Rack (and use with V-Brakes?)

[Jeremy Till]

I used a 32f with Shimano v brakes on the front of my Clem for a while, which 
to my understanding has basically the same fork as the Hunqapillar. It worked 
with no problems, but the clearance was exceedingly tight between the 
transverse cable and the bottom of the center rack strut. The cable never 
rubbed but the rubber boot that goes over the end of the noodle did. If it were 
a different model fork with slightly less tire clearance I could see the cable 
and strut interfering with each other.

Old picture from Riv's Instagram showing my bike with the rack installed:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJWQx7JgrYp/?igshid=1c6vz7fgn9bwl

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

[Jeremy Till]

Masmojo, can you point to a source that describes the tubing differences you 
mention? Or is it something you experienced from riding both? I've been 
following Riv bikes pretty closely since the Hunqapillar came out and don't 
remember such differences being mentioned, but I could have missed it.

I've got an interest in this thread as I have a Clem H which I've ridden as an 
off-road bike for the last 4 years or so, and honestly it's the best bike in 
terms of ride quality I've ever owned. I've got a chronic case of upgrade-itis, 
however, and I've wondered if an Appaloosa or used Hunq would fit the bill. 
Given how smooth the Clem rides I'd want to make sure its replacement shared 
its ride quality. I've never ridden a Hunq but I did work on a couple of 
Waterford built Bombadils and I remember them being way stout. I had an 
opportunity to buy an Appaloosa frame locally but it had less tire clearance 
than the Clem and it would have been a tight fit with my preferred tires.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Was the Hunqapillar designed for Albatross bars?

[Jeremy Till]

The flat bullmoose bars (i.e. not the Bosco- or choco-moose) came out around 
the same time as the Hunqapillar and I remember those featuring prominently 
among many of the early builds.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Re: Shifter cable exit

[Jeremy Till]

That's the case with big frames and bar end shifters whether you route the 
cables outside the tape (as I prefer) or wrap it all the way to the middle. 
I ride 64cm frames with bar ends and have always needed tandem cables on 
the rear.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 10:18:33 AM UTC-7, Friend wrote:
>
> Good point.  Also, as I'm discovering with frustration, shifter cables 
> don't come long enough to reach the rear derailleur on 63cm frames.
>
> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 3:37:01 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> The only potential (not likely) problem is all those bends will cause 
>> enough friction to screw up the shifting. This is a bigger concern with 
>> indexed, but will probably be fine either way. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Jeremy Till]

I think the mechanical explanation with the sleeve would be that the joint 
between the sleeve and bar is not uniform for the length of the sleeve and 
thus there is some portion where it is not tight, so the sleeve and bar can 
move ever so slightly in relation to one another under stress, producing a 
creaking sound. To be honest I'm not familiar with the manufacturing 
methods, whether the sleeve is crimped into place or bonded or both. But it 
seems reasonable that either way there was some small area, probably near 
the ends of the sleeve, where small movements might be possible. That would 
explain why people have been successful in addressing the creak by either 
dripping lubricant or adhesive (loctite or similar) into the sleeve/bar 
joint. That it was able to penetrate at all suggests there might looser 
areas and that lubricating the two surfaces or adhering them to reduce 
movement suggests that small displacements in these areas would be the 
cause of the noise.  

Again, I still trust the quality of Nitto products and the small amount of 
creaking I've experienced doesn't make me fear that my bar or stem is going 
to fail.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 7:18:29 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Leah
>
> When you install the bolt & triangular nut, can you post a picture of the 
> "shelf" without any bolt or nut present??   If the shelf shows no signs of 
> missing metal where the hex bolt contacted it, then the hole for the bolt 
> was drilled lower than it should have been drilled.   This is a possible 
> source of the less than adequate tightening of the stem clamp
>
> I still do not see a mechanistic explanation of why the sleeve on the bar 
> is a source of the ticking noise.I have used a B177 (Noddle) and a B132 
> (radonnuer) in 225mm quill technomics without any sounds.
>
> Without an explanation, other than it happened to others, I would be weary 
> of ruling out use of sleeved bars.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ. 
>
>
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 7:03:04 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, Jeremy, I think I’m doing 52 steel Boscos on the Platypus. I don’t 
>> want bars with sleeves anymore. 
>>
>> For anyone who needs to know: If you want to rid the Technomic stem of 
>> the hex nut and replace it with the triangular nut from Riv, make sure you 
>> also order the bolt. Neither Mark nor I thought I’d need the bolt, but you 
>> do, because the threads are different from one another. Get both bolt and 
>> stem. I just placed my order for the bolt, so hopefully it comes in a few 
>> days and this is the end of the matter! 
>>
>> Leah 
>>
>> Sent from my iPad 
>>
>> > On Jun 20, 2020, at 1:05 PM, Jeremy Till  wrote: 
>> > 
>> > I can't say that I've read every post in the thread but just to echo 
>> something Benz said: in my experience creaking is endemic with all of the 
>> various sleeved Nitto bars, so if the bar in question is of the sleeved 
>> variety that's probably the culprit in my mind. If I remember correctly the 
>> sleeved aluminum Boscos that I rode from 2014-2016 creaked, and those were 
>> clamped in a 4 bolt removable faceplate threadless stem of the appropriate 
>> size, so one of the most solid bar/stem connections out there. The M151 
>> drop bars i currently have on my Rambouillet with a Technomic Deluxe creak 
>> when I pedal out of the saddle. I've always just lived with it because it 
>> didn't really bother me and didn't seem to get worse or otherwise make me 
>> feel like something was about to fail. YMMV, of course, but if avoiding the 
>> creak was a priority and the other solutions suggested didn't work, I'd 
>> consider going back to the steel Boscos (which I assume weren't sleeved) or 
>> other non sleeved bars. 
>> > 
>> > -Jeremy Till 
>> > Sacramento, CA 
>> > 
>> > -- 
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>>
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Jeremy Till]

I can't say that I've read every post in the thread but just to echo something 
Benz said: in my experience creaking is endemic with all of the various sleeved 
Nitto bars, so if the bar in question is of the sleeved variety that's probably 
the culprit in my mind. If I remember correctly the sleeved aluminum Boscos 
that I rode from 2014-2016 creaked, and those were clamped in a 4 bolt 
removable faceplate threadless stem of the appropriate size, so one of the most 
solid bar/stem connections out there. The M151 drop bars i currently have on my 
Rambouillet with a Technomic Deluxe creak when I pedal out of the saddle. I've 
always just lived with it because it didn't really bother me and didn't seem to 
get worse or otherwise make me feel like something was about to fail. YMMV, of 
course, but if avoiding the creak was a priority and the other solutions 
suggested didn't work, I'd consider going back to the steel Boscos (which I 
assume weren't sleeved) or other non sleeved bars.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Center pull/Herse Brake Help

[Jeremy Till]

You mention pad holders so I assume the brake shoes are of the type with a 
replaceable pad. I'd try one piece shoes as the next experiment. I've wondered 
if pads of that type not being fully seated in their holders could be a source 
of vibration or resonance that contributes to squealing. I've had a couple of 
instances of brakes with such shoes squealing after pad replacement that was 
fixed by switching to a one piece pad. Of course, you could try to better seat 
the pads, but sometimes it's not trivial to get the pads to fully seat and 
aside from aesthetics I see little advantage to them, so I tend to just go for 
the one piece shoes. I find I often need to readjust the shoe's angle and 
position over the life of the pad or when replacing them anyways.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento CA

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[RBW] Clem H + Xtracycle

[Jeremy Till]

Which size is your Clem H? Since the chainstay lengths vary by size, how much 
flex you will get with a Leap attached would probably vary. The 45cm one 
probably isn't that different from the old MTB's that Xtracycle attachments 
work best with. The 52 and 59 are quite a bit longer, making a really long bike 
with quite a bit of flex if you were to add a Xtracycle kit to it. 

I own both a 59cm Clem H and an Xtracycle Edgerunner (another great cargo bike 
option to consider) and like to point out with humor that the Clem is only an 
inch or two shorter overall than the Edgerunner. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Re: 650b clearance on Rambouillet?

[Jeremy Till]

I follow the Instagram user linked by Reid and while it's a cool bike, i'm 
not entirely certain it is a Rambouillet. For one thing, it looks like it 
uses the Homer/Roadeo head lugs, not the Rambouillet ones. It also seems to 
have shorter chainstays than other Rambouillets I've seen (including my 
own). Roadeo in Rambouillet drag? One of those "unauthorized" Rambouillet 
frames that was available from a Japanese retailer for a while? Who knows.  

Art's experience reinforces my own feelings about sticking with 700c wheels 
on my Rambouillet: it seems like there would be a lot of compromises 
involved in the conversion (low BB and excessive brake reach would be the 
hardest for me), which makes it hard to justify when the bike rides so well 
with 700c wheels. Mine has Ruffy Tuffys (700x27) and I've done mellow 
gravel and all-day rides on it, always perfectly comfortable. However, I 
have the benefit of having a small stable of bikes, all of which have wider 
tires than the Ram. If were my only bike or my only road-ish bike I might 
feel differently.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 9:27:41 AM UTC-8, Reid Echols wrote:
>
> Following with interest, as I’ve thought of doing the same on my Ram. This 
> recent photo would suggest it is indeed possible: 
>
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B89GYbSlVxe/?igshid=10xp9jnzm2p44 
>
> Reid in Austin 

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Re: [RBW] Chain rubbing rear tire on Clem.

[Jeremy Till]

I'm not sure it's totally down to the crankset, as the demo bike my wife 
owned had Sugino XD2 cranks, but still had the tire clearance issues: 

https://flic.kr/p/V8eVgF

It's worth mentioning that Riv's commitment to square taper cranks does 
allow a relatively simple solution to the problem, i.e swapping in a wider 
BB spindle. If the Clem were spec'ed with "modern" two-piece cranks we'd be 
SOL, since they don't allow for spindles to be swapped.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Tuesday, February 25, 2020 at 9:37:45 AM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> The conflict is the bike was originally spec'd with Sugino cranks, then 
> Riv switched to the very low Q Silver. The ones I've ridden were so "off" 
> to me that I kept missing the pedals because I expected them to be wider 
> apart. If I owned one now I would swap the stock BB (I think it's 110) for 
> a longer one. 

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[RBW] Re: Chain rubbing rear tire on Clem.

[Jeremy Till]

The long chainstays on the Clem mean that the chain is closer to the tire 
in lowest gear than it would be on an equivalent bike with shorter 
chainstays. My wife briefly owned one of the first gen 52cm Clem demo bikes 
that had 2.3" Schwalbe Super Moto tires and it had this issue. The chain 
occasionally got sucked between the tire and chainstay. Accordingly, when I 
built up my 59cm Clem with 2.2" tires I used a wider BB than was intended 
for my crankset to avoid the issue (I think the crankset was intended for a 
113mm BB, and I'm using a 118mm). I'm not particularly sensitive to Q 
factor so the wider stance of the pedals doesn't bother me. I'm also not 
using a front derailleur, I shift manually between the two front 
chainrings, so I can't speak to how this might affect front derailleur 
operation. YMMV. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA 

On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 6:40:38 AM UTC-8, Jim Whorton wrote:
>
> Hi--
>
> I have noticed on my Clem that the chain rubs the rear tire slightly when 
> the bike is in lowest gear (small ring in front, big cog in back).  It's a 
> 59cm Clem H, which I bought complete, so the bottom bracket, etc are as 
> installed by Riv.  The tire is a 2" Kenda Kwick Nine and the cassette is a 
> 9 speed.
>
> Anybody seen this before, or have advice on it?  I don't see any weird 
> wear on the side of the tire--and of course I don't use that gear much, 
> only briefly on a steep incline--so maybe Riv set it up this way 
> deliberately, rather than going with a wider BB to avoid the rub in that 
> gear.
>
> So maybe it's not a big deal.  On the other hand, I'd rather not have the 
> chain rubbing the tire
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Jeremy Till]

My long chainstay bike (Clem) definitely planes.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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Re: [RBW] Rene Herse Triple

[Jeremy Till]

As Steve's experience suggests, I think that 48-36-24 is close enough to 
the chainring gaps on "standard" triple cranks that you should have no 
problem running a road or mountain triple. I run exactly those chainrings 
on a Sugino XD crank on my Rambouillet, and it shifts perfectly with a 
10-spd era Shimano 105 triple front derailleur (FD-5603, I think) and 
Dura-Ace bar end shifter (friction). 

I have another Sugino XD triple with a "half-step + granny" setup, so 
46-42-26, on my Long Haul Trucker. When I first switched to those rings I 
tried a standard triple front derailleur but didn't even take it out of the 
stand. In the middle chainring especially, the chainring just didn't match 
up with where their derailleur expected the chain to be, and there was 
excessive rubbing. I switched to a double front derailleur and that setup 
has served me well, most optimally with an older Shimano 600 double front 
derailleur with a wide cage and flat plates.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 11:21:19 PM UTC-8, John Rinker wrote:
>
> Thank you Steve. First, that's a beautiful bicycle. Wow! Lemme know when 
> you're ready to trade it in ;).
>
> I appreciate you sharing your experience, and I'm sure it will help me 
> move forward. Right now I'm running 9-speeds with a Deore rear derailleur 
> and an older XT front triple. I may just try it out with this and keep your 
> suggestion of the Tiagra triple for future reference. I'm assuming the Rene 
> Herse chainrings are not ramped and pinned.
>
> Cheers,
> John
>
>
> On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 8:37:45 PM UTC+5:45, Steve Palincsar 
> wrote:
>>
>> My JP Weigle has a Herse triple.  10 speeds: SRAM PG1070 12-32 cassette, 
>> 24/34/36 crankset, bar end shifters and a Deore XT rear derailleur.
>>
>> Initially it was built with a Campagnolo double front derailleur that 
>> only reluctantly and unreliably shifted to the inner ring, which was then 
>> replaced with a Tiagra double.  
>>
>> That was OK, and then after a thousand miles (to establish a baseline for 
>> comparison purposes) I took part in an experiment for BQ, replacing the 
>> outer 46T ring with a ramped and pinned 11 spd 46T outer ring.  
>>
>> I didn't have high expectations of the ramped and pinned ring. I've 
>> ridden tens of thousands of miles on Shimano XTR M900 triples with ramped 
>> and pinned SG and SGX rings, and although they shift just fine, I found no 
>> magic in the ramps and pins, and the Herse triple shifted better than all 
>> the XTR M900s.  
>>
>> Also, I started out prejudiced against 11 speed: a bad Spinal Tap joke, 1 
>> more useless speed provided at the cost of hundred dollar chains and a 
>> three hundred dollar chain tool.   
>>
>> On the other hand, this was Jan Heine's idea and he's been right so often 
>> in the past flying in the face of conventional wisdom that anything he 
>> suggests automatically gets the benefit of my doubt -- even an 11-speed 
>> ramped and pinned chain ring. 
>>
>> No idea what they did, but once the shop replaced the outer ring the 
>> Tiagra double no longer would shift to the inner ring at all.  I tried 
>> adjusting the yaw and then it would shift briskly to the inner ring but no 
>> longer was reliable on the two outermost rings: sometimes it would 
>> spontaneously shift from the 46T outer to the 34 inner, and every single 
>> rear shift required trimming to avoid rubbing.
>>
>> They tried various adjustments and cage bending tricks for an hour while 
>> I watched, all to no avail.  Whatever happened when they replaced the outer 
>> ring certainly screwed up that Tiagra double.
>>
>> They replaced it with a *Tiagra FD4603F triple*.  This derailleur 
>> appears to be made for compact-sized chain rings.  The specification sheet 
>> says it's for a front chain ring difference of 20 teeth or less and a 
>> minimum difference of 11T between the middle and outer chain rings - a 
>> perfect match for my  setup.  And what a difference it made!
>>
>> Shifting was now perfect to all chain rings, and better than anything I 
>> have ever experienced before in 48 years of using triples.  Astounding.  
>> Amazing.  Incredible.  
>>
>> Basically, friction shifting in front has in my experience always been 
>> some kind of variation on "The Old Bump and Grind."  The original Herse 46 
>> and 34 shift was very nice -- indeed, I was very doubtful the ramped and 
>> pinned 46T ring would make any difference, since with the original outer 
>> ring shifting was as good as, if not even better than all the ramped and 
>> pinned ring

[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Jeremy Till]

o San Francisco. It was a big ride 
for a flatlander like me but the bike performed wonderfully the whole day. 
Apologies for the hand gesture, it's a bit of an inside joke between me and 
the photographer.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7M4vXTlfVj/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA


On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 9:52:28 AM UTC-8, Pancake wrote:
>
> Leah's discussion about long wheel base led to a lot of interesting 
> discussions about how people found Rivendell. I'd like to know:
>
>- How you first found out about Rivendell?
>- What caused you to actually get your first Rivendell frame or 
>component (or something Riv inspired) ... and what was that first buy?
>- And could you add a photo of that first?
>
> Personally, I was overweight and looking to make my biking more 
> comfortable back in 2004 in Berkeley. Searching online led me to look at 
> Brooks saddles and sweptback handlebars and ultimately to Rivendell to buy 
> some steel Albatross bars ... which I still use today! On a student budget, 
> I attached them to a Jamis Coda Sport (steel frame) with beefed up wheels 
> from The Missing Link bike co-op. Then about 2 years ago my friend Ronnie 
> gave me a Cheviot frame to build up as a distraction while waiting to 
> adopt. The moment I finished building the bike, as I was attaching the 
> pedals my wife pulled into the garage, jumped out of the car and with tears 
> and a huge smile and told me to get plane tickets to Kansas because our 
> daughter was about to be born! Now our daughter is almost 2 years old and I 
> have the Cheviot, a Sam Hillborne, and the same friend is lending me a 
> Rosco Baby frame until that we built a couple weeks ago for front kid seat 
> rides. 
>
> When Grant met my daughter, he noticed the "Baby Muggle On Board" sticker 
> on our car window ... he was rightfully concerned that we didn't know if 
> she was a muggle or not!
>
> Ride on,
> Abe
>
> Some pics of my other Rivendell bikes (and the Rosco Baby with those 
> original Albatross bars) here - https://imgur.com/a/wWgiDmh
>
> [image: IMG_4021.jpg]
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: rebuilding the SimpleOne

[Jeremy Till]

Bromptons that have the "Superlight" or SON front hubs come with a 74mm 
allen bolt skewer, so they should be available from a Brompton dealer. I 
don't know who sells Brompton parts online (Clever Cycles, maybe?) but I'm 
sure there are few out there.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Tuesday, October 22, 2019 at 9:27:45 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I forgot to add that, at least a few years ago, many bike shops had clots 
> of old "10 speed" skewers hidden away in boxes and under workbenches; a 
> couple of years ago I sold about 5 lb of these that I'd collected over the 
> years.
>
> Tangent, but related: Does anyone know of an *allen head *skewer that 
> works with the narrow, 74 mm hub on folders?
>
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 10:07 AM Jeremy Till  > wrote:
>
>> For a while Merry Sales/Soma was selling a good quality 120mm skewer with 
>> an enclosed cam and stainless steel faces. I bought one when I had my 
>> Quickbeam (circa 2014) but they seem to have disappeared since then. 
>> Probably rarer then hen's teeth but there are a few out there. Other than 
>> that, finding a skewer from a good old 120mm road hub might be your best 
>> bet. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: rebuilding the SimpleOne

[Jeremy Till]

For a while Merry Sales/Soma was selling a good quality 120mm skewer with 
an enclosed cam and stainless steel faces. I bought one when I had my 
Quickbeam (circa 2014) but they seem to have disappeared since then. 
Probably rarer then hen's teeth but there are a few out there. Other than 
that, finding a skewer from a good old 120mm road hub might be your best 
bet. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Tuesday, October 22, 2019 at 7:56:51 AM UTC-7, j.schwartz wrote:
>
> Follow up on the Simpleone build
> Just finished this yesterday 
>
> At this point it appears that I'm able (barely) to use the 8-tooth spread 
> with the following components 
> 38/30 chainrings 
> 20-tooth freewheel
> 700x43 tires 
>
> On the 38t ring , the tire has just enough room up near the chain stay 
> bridge to not be concerning and on the 30t ring, the axel is nearing the 
> end of the track ends.
>
> on my test ride yesterday , it didn't seem like the high end was missing 
> too much in terms of gearing.
>
>
> I am currently using a very lousy old Suntour QR on the rear that is 
> slippy ...so need to get a good strong 120mm rear QR skewer to fully make 
> sure I'm good, but so far, it seems like this is working .
> Thinking of getting a 135mm Paul skewer and cutting it down.
>
> The front is a Paul bolt-on.
> Anyone have any suggestions for an appropriate QR for the rear?
>
> If it all ends up being too much for the spread, I may need to size down 
> in the tires.
>
> Lastly, I'm planning on putting a dingle cog on the other side if I can 
> find one.
>
> Also testing out these Nitto B812 bars from Blue Lug on a nice high rise 
> stem.  The area just in front of the levers where they curve to the flat 
> portion is a very comfy 2nd hand positi
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Offroad Mountain Clem-L’s

[Jeremy Till]

Not an L, but my 59cm Clem H is my primary offroad machine: 

https://flic.kr/p/24FBzeV

Old picture but the setup hasn't changed: Jones Loop bars on 31.8mm VO 
quill stem, Cliffhanger rims and 2.2" knobbies, 2x9 drivetrain with no 
front derailleur (I call it my "double 1x").

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 5:31:01 AM UTC-7, j.schwartz wrote:
>
> Who has their Clem L set up as a true off-roader ?
>

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[RBW] Hollowtech Homer

[Jeremy Till]

Just to be clear, are you trying to shift the Deore triple crankset with the 
Sora front derailer? If so, I would switch it out for a Shimano mountain triple 
front derailer such as the XT one that Riv sells:

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/derailers/products/shimano-deore-xt-front-derailer-17160
 

The mountain front derailer will be a better match for the chainline and 
chainring sizes of the mountain bike crankset than the Sora, which is intended 
for Road cranks.

No accusations of heresy here! I like clicky Shimano shifters and derailers and 
use them on my Clem for offroading. A couple of recent builds out of Riv have 
when featured that high zoot 1x11 or 12 stuff.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Dropbar width

[Jeremy Till]

I'm 6'3", ~95cm PBH IIRC, and use 46cm Nitto M151's on my 64cm Rambouillet. The 
M151's are pretty square (no flare to the drops) so the hoods are probably 
close to 46cm apart. This is perfect for a road bike fit. If I were setting up 
a drop bar off road bike I may consider something wider and/or more flared, but 
I think I would also make the stem reach shorter and higher. I find that wider 
bars tend to pull my torso forward since my arms more angled and thus 
effectively shorter.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Re: Rearranging 8/9 Speed Cassette Cogs

[Jeremy Till]

Well, there's one issue, which is apparent looking at the picture Steve posted. 
Most (all?) last position cogs don't have splines that go all the way through 
the cog, they're meant to cap the ends of the splines on the freehub body. You 
wouldn't be able to slide them farther onto the freehub body.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Steel bike in last stage of TDF

[Jeremy Till]

Saw this on Instagram as I was watching today's final stage of the TdF:

https://road.cc/content/news/264688-oliver-naesen-rides-steel-eddy-merckx-bike-champs-elysees
 

I tried to catch a glimpse of the rider in question among the peleton, but was 
not successful. He was only mentioned once by the commentators, as having a 
very outside chance of winning the stage.

I did however, as the race was approaching downtown, catch a glimpse of a 
spectator with a beautiful randonneur bike with metal fenders, front racks, 
etc. It was right around 63km to go. I wonder if it was a Singer.

Anyone know the last time a steel bike was ridden in the tour? One of the 
Bianchis from the Pantani era, maybe?

Also, on that steel Eddy Merckx: holy saddle to bar drop, Batman!

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Re: Swapping derailer cable on a Deore XT SL M-8000

[Jeremy Till]

I haven't worked on that particular shifter, but on most Shimano shifters 
of the type there is a little cap opposite where the cable enters with a 
Philips head fitting. Shift into the highest gear (lowest cable tension), 
disconnect the cable, remove the cap by unscrewing it (it only takes a turn 
or two), and then push the cable into the shifter. The cable head should 
exit through the hole vacated by the cap. A new cable can be inserted 
through the hole and the process reversed to hook it up.  

Manual describing the process here: 

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-MASL001_01-ENG.pdf

Page 20. si.shimano.com is where to go for all of their manuals.  

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 9:13:42 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I searched the interwebs and can't find a diagram or how-to. Shimano's 
> unhelpful owner's manual says if we don't show it here take it to your LBS. 
> Seriously? To change a cable? I've tried unscrewing the plates, to no 
> avail. My LBS is also slammed and said he'd need it for 3 days (I'm not 
> high on his priority list as he never has what I need anyway.). 
>
> Suggestions? 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick 
>
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org 
> www.DeaconPatrick.org 
> www.CatholicHalos.org 
>
>

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[RBW] Servicing Silver hubs?

[Jeremy Till]

One follow up (sorry, working from memory): there may also be a small seal 
between the freehub body and the pawls. It can be gently pried up to access the 
pawls and pressed back into place before reassembly.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Servicing Silver hubs?

[Jeremy Till]

I have one of the prototype Silver hubs and I'm pretty sure the production ones 
have the same internals. I've had mine open a few times and it's pretty 
straightforward. You don't even necessarily have to remove the cassette.

-The freehub body is held in place by the drive side axle end cap, which 
threads onto the axle.
-You can remove either end cap by inserting 5mm allen wrenches into both ends 
of the axle and holding one steady while turning the other counter clockwise. 
However, it's kind of a crapshoot which end cap loosens first. If the non drive 
starts turning, unscrew that one and remove it. The axle itself then has a 
fitting for a 10mm allen which can be used to hold the axle while you unscrew 
the other end cap.
-Once you have removed the end cap, you can slide the freehub body straight off 
the axle. Make sure you have the wheel on its side with the drive side up so 
you don't lose any parts. The axle is captured between the bearings in the main 
hub shell and will stay in place.
-This will expose the pawl mechanism. The hubs are somewhat unique in that the 
drive ring is on the freehub body and the pawls are contained in the hub shell 
-usually it's the other way round. Take a minute or two to grok how the pawls 
and springs go together, and then you can slide each pawl and spring out to 
clean and lube them. If you want to quiet things down you might put a little 
lube on the drive ring where the pawls run over it (see my commentary below).
-Reassemble everything just as it came apart. IIRC there's a spacer that goes 
on the axle between the freehub body and hub shell, make sure that's there. If 
the freehub body doesn't drop right into place when you slide it onto the axle, 
slowly rotate counter clockwise until it drops down into the pawls.
-thread the axle ends back on and tighten them against each other. The bearings 
aren't adjustable so it's just a matter of threading them on until they stop 
and then torquing them appropriately. If the axle isn't turning smoothly after 
the end caps go on then something is assembled wrong.

Commentary: my silver hub had occasional skipping issues under high pedaling 
loads (think steep single track climbs). The first time I opened it i 
discovered that it was missing one of the pawls springs. I've been unable to 
source replacements, but was able to fabricate my own pawl spring that's been 
working well. However, in my various attempts at addressing the skipping issue 
it was my experience that lubricating the pawl/drive ring interface exacerbated 
the issue, even with all 6 pawls and springs in place. My best results have 
been lightly lubing each pawl so that it rotates freely in its seat in the hub 
shell but leaving its interface with the drive ring dry. Yes, the hub is on the 
loud side but its engagement works well. YMMV.

- Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Re: Converting a triple to a low/low

[Jeremy Till]

I've removed teeth from a chainring without power tools. I clamped it in a vice 
and used a pair of channel lock pliers to bend each tooth until it snapped off. 
It was easier than I thought it would be (with an aluminum chainring, I doubt 
it would work for steel). After removing the teeth I used a file to smooth down 
the stubs.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] Re: Black cyclists

[Jeremy Till]

I'm also interested in a discussion of race in cycling, but I don't have 
the time at the moment to lay out my thoughts in an effective manner, so 
I'll just post some links that might be helpful: 

http://www.aquickbrownfox.com/ 
The website of Ayesha McGowan, a black woman who is a pro road racer.  

Justin Williams, the current US National Champion, is a black cyclist, and 
races for Legion of Los Angeles, a team promoting inclusion and diversity 
in cycling: 
https://www.instagram.com/juswilliamz/?hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/l39ion.la/?hl=en

https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/books/7833
http://www.urbanadonia.com/p/about_22.html
Adonia Lugo, Ph.D. is a cultural anthropologist who wrote *Bicycle/Race*, a 
book about cycling and culture in Los Angeles. She's a friend of a friend 
and I've seen her speak.  

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 9:05:00 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I anticipate that some people may find this controversial, but I'll bet 
> they aren't black. I have no compunctions about my interest in black 
> cyclists and in black African culture generally, so hoping the interest 
> will outweigh the sensitivity:
>
> Black people seem to be relatively few in cycling; I say "seem" -- the 
> reality may be different.
> At any rate, this is an interesting article: 
>
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/07/nyregion/black-cyclists-red-caps-brooklyn.html
>
> I sometimes come across news of cycling in Kenya and other parts of 
> Africa; I recall a feature about the history of cycling in -- was it Rwanda 
> or was it Burundi? But a history going back decades and continuing despite 
> the vicissitudes of war and politics. 
>
> There's a off-and-on-and-mostly-off blog, She Cycles Nairobi, that has 
> some interesting bits. 
>
> Patrick Moore, who cut his cycling teeth on the hilly roads around Nairobi 
> in the '60s and '70s.
>
> ... Not to mention Peter Tosh and his unicycle (and the best ever version 
> of Johnny B Goode) ...
>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>
>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And 
> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the 
> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
> --- J.R.R. Tolkien
> ---
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
> Other professional writing services
> Expensive! But good.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>
>

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[RBW] Re: SRAM quick link release, g-r-r-r-r-r

[Jeremy Till]

https://www.parktool.com/product/master-link-pliers-mlp-1-2

My go to when I was a mechanic and when I'm at home. I view trying to 
release them by hand as an emergency-only option, for when you're on the 
side of the road with a busted derailleur or similar. 

In my experience, the 8 and 9 speed ones were easier to open by hand, the 
10 and 11's pretty much needed the pliers. 12 speed was coming in just as I 
stopped wrenching so no first-hand experience. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 2:37:58 PM UTC-7, George Schick wrote:
>
> This afternoon I struggled to get a easy-link (or whatever SRAM calls it) 
> to "release" so I could clean the chain on one of my bikes.  Granted, this 
> chain has been in use for quite a few years before I got around to removing 
> and cleaning it, but sheesh you'd think it would still come apart 
> relatively easily.  Nope, I tried dosing it with TriFlow, then with Liquid 
> Wrench, and finally with good old reliable PB Blaster, but none of them 
> loosened it up enough to allow the easy link to be squeezed together to the 
> point where it would come apart.  I wound up resorting to the use of a 
> chain tool to forcefully get it apart.  Anyone have any recommendations of 
> either a solvent or a tool that will aid in the removal of these so-called 
> easy links?
>

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Re: [RBW] RD compatible with index shifters?

[Jeremy Till]

That is definitely a M771 rear derailleur and is 9spd compatible: 

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=19237 

Like others, I have two bicycles which run the 7700-series bar ends with 
mountain derailleurs, so they are compatible. To work through the other 
possibilities: 

-Are you sure you have the 9 speed bar-end shifters? Shimano also has an 8 
spd version, and 8 speed cog spacing is different than 9 spd.
-Are you sure you have a 9 speed cassette?
-Probably highly unlikely, but is there any chance your cassette is a 
Campagnolo cassette? Campagnolo also uses a different cog spacing. 
-Are the shift cable and housing in good shape?


On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 8:43:42 PM UTC-7, Dave Redmon wrote:
>
> Here's a photo of my Shimano XT RD
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini fendering at 32mm?

[Jeremy Till]

I don't think Bill is spreading falsehoods about metal fenders. He is not 
saying that plastic fenders absolutely have more clearance than metal 
fenders. I think that he is saying in the situation of trying to cram as 
large a tire as possible and a fender into a given frame/brake combination, 
and considering the stock hardware that comes with most fenders (which, on 
metal fenders, often involves darumas or bolts with nuts on the inside of 
the fender), it may be easier to achieve the desired result with the 
current SKS fenders than the current commonly available metal fenders. 

I certainly agree that with metal fenders, especially those that aren't 
pre-drilled for hardware, are much more adaptable in terms of how you mount 
them. If you have access to riveting tools you can rivet L-brackets to 
them. You can bolt them to dedicated mounts on the frame and racks 
(assuming your frame and racks were built with them) with button head 
bolts. My wife's bike (Heron Touring) has some Honjo fenders that came to 
me with special plates to attach the fender stays rather than darumas, and 
those definitely take up relatively little space on the inside of the 
fender (I see them now on the SimWorks website, listed as the "Stay Band 
Set": https://sim.works/collections/small-parts-simworks-by-honjo). But all 
of this is a lot more customization and effort when compared to what it 
takes to install a pair of SKS fenders.  

I am in a similar situation to the OP: my Rambouillet (an older Rivendell 
road bike that also used 47-57mm reach brakes) came with 28mm tires and 
hammered Honjo fenders. The fenders are the narrowest Honjos I've seen but 
the daruma bolts at the fork crown and stay mounts are definitely the 
limiting factor. I could cut down threaded ends of the darumas and maybe 
use thinner nuts, but I'd still probably be hesitant to run anything much 
wider than 28mm. I've thought about switching the fenders out for some 45mm 
longboards I have and seeing if I could run 32-33mm tires. At the same 
time, my primary motivation for going to larger tires is riding gravel and 
dirt, so maybe it's better to just ditch the fenders entirely and run tires 
in the 35mm range. I live in California and rain isn't a year-round 
phenomenon here.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 11:01:07 AM UTC-7, lconley wrote:
>
> I mount my own fenders. I can put a metal fender on any of my bikes and 
> equal or better the clearance of a plastic fender. You can use crimp on 
> mounts anywhere on a metal fender - you can even cut off the crimp and 
> rivet them to the outside of the fender and presto! - more clearance than a 
> plastic. Through bolts are NOT required.  
>
> I rode plastic fenders in the 70s and 80s. I prefer metal, but I have a 
> lot of tools and have been collecting fender hardware for years and I have 
> been working on bikes for 50 years. If you prefer to have plastic fenders 
> good for you, but don't spread falsehoods about metal fenders.
>
> Laing
> Cocoa, FL
>
> On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 12:37:18 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> The idea that metal fenders have less clearance than SKS generally stems 
>> from the fact that most metal fenders have bulky hardware that you run 
>> inside the fender to attach the stays.  SKS fenders have that flat plate 
>> riveted to the fender, so there's almost nothing inside the fender in the 
>> way of hardware.  In virtually all cases, the stay is held in place by a 
>> daruma bolt.  There's a nut inside at least.  Some people run a washer 
>> inside as well.  Some run the daruma cups inside.  The stack up of that 
>> standard hardware is at least 4mm tall.  In my experience Velo Orange 
>> daruma bolts are over-long, so if you don't scrub off the excess, that 
>> stack up could be taller.  
>>
>> Additionally, the rolled edge of most metal fenders can be another issue, 
>> particularly through the fork crown.  That edge in a SKS fender is much 
>> flatter.  People like Jan recommend a 10mm gap (or more) from the fender 
>> surface to the tire, everywhere.  Bulky hardware eats into that 10mm in 
>> spots.  The rolled edge may drop that 10mm to 7mm, but that's OK.  
>>
>> People who don't actually care about fender clearance and instead want to 
>> find the larger possible tire they can run with fenders with no rubbing, 
>> generally find that combination with plastic fenders.  I don't think I've 
>> ever heard a mechanic claim they could make room for fatter tires by 
>> swapping from plastic fenders to metal.  
>>
>> On my 57cm Leo Roadini, I run 28mm tires when the bike has metal fenders 
>> on it.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 6:20:03 AM UTC-7, lc

[RBW] Re: PSA: Slick go-fast Rambouillet on Seattle CL

[Jeremy Till]

I'm guessing it's the original fork (w/ canti bosses added) and quill to 
threadless adapter for the stem.  

Neat bike. I love my Rambouillet but I think I would love it even more with 
canti bosses. This also makes me want to put some Bon Jon Passes on it.  

On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 5:23:36 AM UTC-7, eddietheflay wrote:
>
> that fork has lock nuts on it so would that not suggest it is threaded? 
> but what about the threadless stem.
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2019 at 10:31:40 PM UTC-7, DarinM wrote:
>>
>> Pretty slick Ram on CL here: 
>> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/d/seattle-rivendell-rambouillet/6857239982.html
>>
>> Looks like a really fun go-fast build at a good price. Did they ever come 
>> with canti brakes or was this customized?
>>
>> Darin
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Need help with front derailleur adjustment

[Jeremy Till]

First, some basic notes about derailleur adjustments. By "the adjustment 
screws" I assume you mean the two small screws on top of the derailleur. 
Their proper names is the limit screws, and they control how far in either 
direction the derailleur can travel. Once they are set properly they 
shouldn't really need re-adjustment. If the derailleur was working properly 
prior to your cable swap, their positions should work fine after the cable 
swap. Here are the shimano guidelines for setting their position on your 
front derailleur.

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/si/SI-5MW0A-002-ENG.pdf

The cable is what pulls the derailleur towards the big ring, so if the 
derailleur isn't moving the chain onto the big ring well the first thing to 
check is if you have enough cable tension. In the low gear position for the 
shifter and derailleur, the cable just be just taught--no slack. With a 
friction shifter like you have, that's the main thing to look for in cable 
adjustment--it doesn't need to be super precise.  

If there is slack in the low gear position, that could account for some of 
the housing issues you are having. If the cable is tight the cable tension 
should hold everything in place. If there is slack then the housing might 
be able to move some in the low gear position then get bowed out once the 
cable tension is applied. 

Here are the steps I would follow to address the issue: 

1. Disconnect the cable from the derailleur, and loosen both limit screws 
by turning counter clockwise a ways.
2. Undo the twine holding the housing to the grip
3. Make sure the housing is seated fully and properly in the shifter (it 
may be the that the groove in the grip needs to be deeper to allow that to 
happen).
4. Set the low limit screw following the Shimano guidelines (step 1 in the 
document)
5. Make sure the shifter is set in the full low gear position
6. Pull the cable tight and secure.
7. Their should be adequate cable tension now to shift into the big 
ring--do so. Be careful not to over-shift, since the high limit screw isn't 
set. 
8. Set the high limit screw following the shimano guildelines (Step 4 in 
the document). 
9. Shift back and forth between the big ring and small ring at least 10 
times. With new cables and housing, the cables will stretch and the housing 
will seat a little bit more over the first few times you use them. 
10. Re-check that there's no slack in the cable in the full low-gear 
position.If there is, undo the cable, pull it tight, and re-secure. 

Only once you are happy with the derailleur function, then I would twine 
the housing in place. Perhaps aside from slightly more friction on the 
cable, the twine shouldn't make any change in the shifter/derailleur 
function.  

On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 8:56:33 AM UTC-7, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm finally getting around to one of my winter bike projects.  I've got a 
> Cheviot with albatross bars and bar-end shifters.  I noticed at the end of 
> last year that there were sharp wire fragments hitting my fingers when i 
> shifted the front lever.  To me, it looked like the derailleur cable had 
> somehow started to fray - perhaps from friction between the shifter and the 
> housing.   It seemed odd, but possible.
>
> In any event, I ordered new cable that I attempted to install earlier this 
> morning.  When taking out the old cable, I noticed that it was not the 
> cable that had frayed.  Rather, what I believed to be frayed cable was 
> actually the inside of the cable housing.  I cut out the bad section of 
> housing, and went about installing the new cable.
>
> When I got everything back together, I noticed even after playing with the 
> adjustment screws I was having a hard time getting the chain to jump up to 
> the large chain-ring. (using Sugino XD2 wide-low double).  After playing 
> around a bit I noticed what may be the problem.  Here is where I need some 
> help.
>
> My cheviot has albatross bars, using Meisha's cork grips.  I noticed that 
> when I was trying to shift into the large chain-ring, that the derailleur 
> cable was flexing near the very end of the cork grip - just before the grip 
> met the shifter.  For those of you who have this set-up, there is a grooved 
> area where the cable and housing is supposed to run.  I'm all set - 
> lined-up perfectly with that.  There is also an area designed for twine; 
> wrapping twine around the cable housing and grip.  I've done that and 
> varnished it up.  What I am finding is that the cable and housing is 
> flexing (bowing-out) in the space between this twined-area and the spot 
> where the grip meets the shifter.  I am thinking that this flexing is at 
> the root of both my shifting difficulty and the fraying of my cable housing.
>
> Do you think I have correctly diagnosed the issue?  If so, any suggestions 
> about how to fix it?  My first thought is that perhaps the housing is a bit 
> too long, and that if I cut the housing so that it is a bit shorter it 
> 

[RBW] Best smallish rear rack for long chainstay models?

[Jeremy Till]

What kind of bags are you thinking about using? Kind of determines which rack 
is best. I've had my Nitto Big Back rack on my Clem to carry panniers and it 
worked well. I'd say it's a touch flexier than the same rack on a shorter chain 
stay bike (like my Long Haul Trucker) because the upper stays are more extended 
to reach the upper mounts on the seat stays. Most of the long chain stay models 
have a second set of M6 eyelets mounted a few cm up from the dropouts which 
helps center the load within the wheelbase more.

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[RBW] Re: aluminum under front derailleur clamp

[Jeremy Till]

As Laing says, those are shims used to adapt front derailleurs with larger 
clamps to narrower seat tubes. If your derailleur is properly matched to the 
tube I wouldn't recommend using anything under it, just be judicious when 
tightening the clamp bolt.

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[RBW] Why do Riv mixtes have 70 Degree HT angles?

[Jeremy Till]

I've also noticed that myself and have wondered about it. I'm not sure of GP's 
original design intention but my guess is that the consistency comes from the 
fact that the Rivendell mixtes are the only lugged mixtes in production, and 
thus their lugs are the only ones available. The upper head lug, which would be 
mixte-specific, probably is only made in one set of angles, so increasing the 
HTA would correspondingly reduce standover height. This also probably explains 
why on smaller sizes the middle set of stays don't form a straight line with 
the top tube. The cost to try a new set of angles or have size-specific 
geometry would thus be high (new lug molds) and probably leads to a "if it 
ain't broke, don't fix it" approach, at least with these models. You don't hear 
a lot of customers complaining about the handling of their cheviots.

Do the lugless Riv step throughs (Clem L and the various Rosco mixtes) have 
different head angles?

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[RBW] Re: NAHBS iBOB/Riv list Get-Together and Garage Sale, Sat 3/16

[Jeremy Till]

Hey folks, just bumping this to remind folks attending NAHBS that I'll be 
hosting a little get together and garage sale Saturday morning. Details 
below. The weather's looking good for Saturday so after the get-together 
I'll lead a ~45 min social paced ride along the Sacramento river and 
through Downtown, ending at the Convention center.  

FYI, since I had a couple of questions about it, NAHBS sent out an email 
this morning confirming that SABA (our local bike advocates) will once 
again be hosting valet bike parking at the convention center. So if you're 
coming along for the ride, no worries about parking your bike once we get 
there.  

Send me a personal message to RSVP and I'll send you my address. Hope to 
see you there!

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 2:25:43 PM UTC-8, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> NAHBS is once again in my town this year (Sacramento) so I thought I'd 
> host a little get together for people on the iBOB and Rivendell Owner's 
> Bunch lists. Like Rob Perks did in 2016, I'm doing it as a morning coffee 
> time on Saturday morning, which is when I figure most people will be 
> attending the show. The details: 
>
> What: NAHBS iBOB/Riv list Coffee Get-Together and Garage Sale
> When: Saturday, March 16 9-10:30 a.m. 
> Where: My garage and driveway, in the Land Park neighborhood of 
> Sacramento, 1.8 miles from the Convention Center where NAHBS is being held. 
> In the interests of not posting my home address online, if you are 
> interested in coming, please RSVP to me and I will send you my address 
> directly. 
>
> As the title says, in keeping with the Marie Kondo craze and the interest 
> of downsizing my parts collection, I'm hosting it at my place and will be 
> throwing a garage sale at the same time. Basically anything that's not 
> already on a complete bike will be up for grabs at what I hope are 
> "everything must go" prices. It's an eclectic collection but includes 
> various flared drop bars, a 7spd Nexus wheel/shifter, a few bags from Riv 
> and VO, Time ATAC pedals, some SKS fenders, etc. 
>
> I'll have a couple of boxes of hot coffee from local roasters Temple 
> Coffee and maybe some donuts and/or pastries as well. Feel free to bring 
> some treats to share, or if you want to show off your coffee outside setup 
> feel free to brew up on the driveway. If there's interest as things are 
> winding down, I can lead a "scenic route" ride of 45 mins - 1 hour starting 
> from my place and ending at the convention center for the show.  
>
> Hope to see you there!
>

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[RBW] Re: simple question about XD2's?

[Jeremy Till]

Spacers are used on cranks where the spider arms are drilled and tapped for 
inner chainring mounting but standoffs are not forged into the arms 
themselves. Older Sugino triple cranks such as the AT and GT are examples 
of such cranks. They are also used on "tripleized" cranks where the inner 
chainring mounts to a second set of holes on the middle chainring rather 
than directly to the crank.  

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 11:37:44 AM UTC-7, jandrews wrote:
>
> Do they require chainring bolt space era for either of the 100bcd or the 
> 74bcd mounts?  Aren't they already integrated in to the forged crank?
> When, if ever, would extra bolt spacers be used?
> Thanks
> Jason 
>

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[RBW] MicroShift’s New $125 drivetrain

[Jeremy Till]

Interesting. I may have to try it out on my CleMTB (I had been thinking about 
replacing the shifter anyways). Price point aside, this is the first 9spd rear 
derailleur that I'm aware of with a clutch. Are there any others? I wonder if 
the cable pull ratios are compatible with Shimano stuff.

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[RBW] Re: NAHBS iBOB/Riv list Get-Together and Garage Sale, Sat 3/16

[Jeremy Till]

Hi Neil, 

I hadn't considered inviting others to bring their wares, and my 
garage/driveway space is pretty limited so I don't think I'd be able to do 
it properly, sorry. Would still love you to have you come by!

Thanks,

Jeremy

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 8:44:15 PM UTC-8, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> Are you inviting listers to bring their wares to sell/trade? 

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[RBW] NAHBS iBOB/Riv list Get-Together and Garage Sale, Sat 3/16

[Jeremy Till]

NAHBS is once again in my town this year (Sacramento) so I thought I'd host 
a little get together for people on the iBOB and Rivendell Owner's Bunch 
lists. Like Rob Perks did in 2016, I'm doing it as a morning coffee time on 
Saturday morning, which is when I figure most people will be attending the 
show. The details: 

What: NAHBS iBOB/Riv list Coffee Get-Together and Garage Sale
When: Saturday, March 16 9-10:30 a.m. 
Where: My garage and driveway, in the Land Park neighborhood of Sacramento, 
1.8 miles from the Convention Center where NAHBS is being held. In the 
interests of not posting my home address online, if you are interested in 
coming, please RSVP to me and I will send you my address directly. 

As the title says, in keeping with the Marie Kondo craze and the interest 
of downsizing my parts collection, I'm hosting it at my place and will be 
throwing a garage sale at the same time. Basically anything that's not 
already on a complete bike will be up for grabs at what I hope are 
"everything must go" prices. It's an eclectic collection but includes 
various flared drop bars, a 7spd Nexus wheel/shifter, a few bags from Riv 
and VO, Time ATAC pedals, some SKS fenders, etc. 

I'll have a couple of boxes of hot coffee from local roasters Temple Coffee 
and maybe some donuts and/or pastries as well. Feel free to bring some 
treats to share, or if you want to show off your coffee outside setup feel 
free to brew up on the driveway. If there's interest as things are winding 
down, I can lead a "scenic route" ride of 45 mins - 1 hour starting from my 
place and ending at the convention center for the show.  

Hope to see you there!

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[RBW] Re: Comments on 1x12'd MIT Atlanti Or Other Riv's?

[Jeremy Till]

Not to derail (hah!) this thread, but I had also briefly considered an MIT 
Atlantis as something to work towards as a replacement for my current 
CleMTB. I was at Riv HQ a couple of weekends ago and got a chance to look 
more closely at the demo bike that's built up pretty closely to my Clem, as 
pictured here: 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtFHpw8jt5s/

The Atlantis is definitely a dirt-capable allrounder and I wouldn't 
hesitate to take if off-roading. However, comparing it to my Clem (which 
uses a Hunqapillar fork, and I assume has similar clearance to the Hunqs, 
at least the later ones), the Atlantis doesn't have quite as much tire 
clearance for big knobbies or mud, if either of those things are important 
to your off-roading experience. The demo pictured above has 2.2 Continental 
Race Kings on relatively narrow rims (Atlases, if I remember correctly), 
and they are close to the seat stays and fork crown. My Clem takes 2.2's on 
wider rims (Cliffhangers) with a lot more clearance. The Hunqapillar fork 
crown is definitely wider than the Atlantis one, and at least on my 
first-gen Clem with the fixed-angle seat lug, the stays are wider set. I 
love my Clem setup and definitely wouldn't want to go any narrower, either 
on the rim or the tire, so I think I'll be sticking with it for now as my 
MTB.  

No comment on the 12 speed stuff specifically but I will note that any 
chainline issues are made less severe by long chainstays. I run a mountain 
double (36/22) setup on my Clem with no front derailleur and a wide bottom 
bracket to help the chain clear the tire in the granny gear. That puts the 
bigger ring pretty far out and I expect it would be problematic, especially 
in the big x big combinations, on a bike with shorter chainstays. As it is 
I have no problems with derailment, even using a ramped and pinned 
chainring (i.e. not narrow-wide or even SS specific) while bouncing around 
off road. 

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 7:20:21 AM UTC-8, tc wrote:
>
> Bill, Colin, Adam - all great info!  Thank you. I was also thinking of 
> raiding my Clem drivetrain, if I go forward with an Atlantipillar ... but 
> this 12-spd Gx setup is so intriguing, and not as expensive as I thought it 
> was. 
>
> Tom
>

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[RBW] Re: Quickbeam angled dropouts - first principles?

[Jeremy Till]

Yes, the end result should be the brake pads parallel to the axle 
adjustment path, but stay angles and lengths do matter (at least to the 
framebuilder) in that they determine the point on the rim at which the 
brake pads will hit and thus the angle between the ground (or a line drawn 
between axle centers) and a line tangential to the rim at that point, 
parallel to which the brake pads will be set.  

Note that the QB concept of not having to adjust brake shoes between 
different axle positions is facilitated by the relatively large radius of 
700c rims.  A smaller wheel will have a larger change in tangent angle at 
the braking point for a given change in axle position. I wonder if this was 
noticeable in the 650b bikes that came in the last batch. I expect it would 
be impossible with small wheels (e.g. 20" or smaller).

On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 4:38:16 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> Nope. Just making sure. 
> I know there were several prototypes on the angle, so "parallel to the 
> brake shoes" may not be the whole story. 
>
> Philip 
> Santa Rosa, CA 
>
> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 4:22:44 PM UTC-8, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>>
>> Philip-
>> To argue the counter factual: can you think of any reason or way that 
>> they would matter? 
>>
>> -J
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Ultra Romance and his Rivendell Atlantis.

[Jeremy Till]

Lester, no, it's a drainage channel leading to the American River, just off 
the bike trail that parallels it, in Sacramento, CA. 

On Tuesday, January 8, 2019 at 2:11:47 PM UTC-8, Lester Lammers wrote:
>
> Jeremy. Is that the LA River in your bike pic? 
>
> On Monday, January 7, 2019 at 5:27:50 PM UTC-5, Jeremy Till wrote:
>>
>> I've been riding a long chainstay Rivendell 
>> <https://www.instagram.com/p/BHlRIMQD1pp/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet>
>>  
>> with fancy Shimano v-brakes, double chainrings, and no front derailleur as 
>> an MTB for the past 2.5 years. Guess I'm just ahead of the curve. 
>>
>> On Monday, January 7, 2019 at 10:22:38 AM UTC-8, Ryan M. wrote:
>>>
>>> Check out this Radavist article. 
>>>
>>>
>>> https://theradavist.com/2019/01/ultra-romance-and-his-rivendell-atlantis-mountain-bike/?no_cache=1=IwAR2wUcRjIMLbddCD5n4U4xA6rikEuINj9y-XjlIZfnJOQgsysE7OwTA6N4o#1
>>>
>>> Yes, you can ride a Rivendell like an MTB and have a ton of fun doing 
>>> it. Man, I wish I were tall enough to get a second top tube Riv, because I 
>>> think they look awesome. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a great setup for an off road Rivendell, but I would go with a 
>>> Cambium saddle instead of a leather one, personally, but whatever. I 
>>> haven't used drop bars on an off road bike except for cyclocross stuff, and 
>>> those bars I've always felt were too narrow. Not these; check out the width 
>>> of the bars...just wonderful. I have to try and get a similar bike together 
>>> as I just bought a set of these bars in 615 length. I was thinking about 
>>> installing them on my Appaloosa but I'm really digging the Bullmoose bars I 
>>> have on it right now. 
>>>
>>> Huh, might need another frame now. 
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Ultra Romance and his Rivendell Atlantis.

[Jeremy Till]

I've been riding a long chainstay Rivendell 
 
with fancy Shimano v-brakes, double chainrings, and no front derailleur as 
an MTB for the past 2.5 years. Guess I'm just ahead of the curve. 

On Monday, January 7, 2019 at 10:22:38 AM UTC-8, Ryan M. wrote:
>
> Check out this Radavist article. 
>
>
> https://theradavist.com/2019/01/ultra-romance-and-his-rivendell-atlantis-mountain-bike/?no_cache=1=IwAR2wUcRjIMLbddCD5n4U4xA6rikEuINj9y-XjlIZfnJOQgsysE7OwTA6N4o#1
>
> Yes, you can ride a Rivendell like an MTB and have a ton of fun doing it. 
> Man, I wish I were tall enough to get a second top tube Riv, because I 
> think they look awesome. 
>
>
>
> This is a great setup for an off road Rivendell, but I would go with a 
> Cambium saddle instead of a leather one, personally, but whatever. I 
> haven't used drop bars on an off road bike except for cyclocross stuff, and 
> those bars I've always felt were too narrow. Not these; check out the width 
> of the bars...just wonderful. I have to try and get a similar bike together 
> as I just bought a set of these bars in 615 length. I was thinking about 
> installing them on my Appaloosa but I'm really digging the Bullmoose bars I 
> have on it right now. 
>
> Huh, might need another frame now. 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Mixed bag results: Fenders on my Leo

[Jeremy Till]

I ran into a similar issue with the super skinny Honjos over Ruffy Tuffies 
that came on the used Rambouillet I bought over the summer: 



When first had the bike, the front fender would rattle over everything. I 
spent some time in the garage in September and now it doesn't, although I 
can't say exactly why. I changed two things: 

1. I tweaked the fender line and alignment so that it followed the wheel 
better and was straight over the tire (when I first got it, the front part 
of the fender curved off to one side).
2. I put a couple of layers of electrical tape over the fender right where 
it passed under the brake, figuring it might help to dampen vibrations if 
there was contact there.  

The fender is quiet now. I can't say if 1 or 2 made the difference. Knowing 
Bill, he's probably already done #1 as much as possible.  Maybe #2 might 
help?

The only thing that still rattles on the Rambouillet are my preferred Klean 
Kanteens in the beautiful but flimsy Nitto bottle cage. It may get swapped 
for a King Iris at some point but it's a shame not to use such a nice 
looking cage on a nice looking bike.  

I might still try a second set of stays for the fender forward of the fork, 
as there's a lot of overhang there and the fender still vibrates a lot over 
bumps even if it's quiet.  The fender already has a hole up there 
suggesting somebody did so, or attached it to a front rack, before.  

On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 11:02:58 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> [image: IMG_1240.jpg]
>
>
> The rain has finally come to California, which triggered a couple new 
> aluminum fender installations in my stable.  My 57cm Leo Roadini was one of 
> the bikes to get new aluminum fenders.  Velo Orange has their really skinny 
> ones on clearance, so I gave it a shot.  In order to maximize tire 
> clearance I also switched to skinny Soma New Express tires, which measure a 
> true 27mm on really narrow rims.  The tires are labelled 700x28.  The 
> fender lines turned out well, and they were silent in the stand.  I'm 
> really happy with how the bike looks with black aluminum fenders.  
>
> But...The front fender is super noisy.  In order to get good tire 
> clearance, I needed to run it way up close to the brake caliper, and every 
> little vibration caused that tiny gap from fender to brake caliper to 
> rattle.  It was pretty annoying.  It had me thinking that since my stable 
> of bikes is pretty huge, not every bike has to have fenders.  I could 
> afford to have a stripped down road bike without fenders and use it only on 
> dry days.  It also had me thinking that skinny fenders are just not very 
> good.  I've also got a couple modification ideas.  That front extension of 
> the front fender doesn't really get me anything, and it really is kind of a 
> floppy diving board in this flimsy narrow width.  I could modify the 
> fenders to make that extension a lot shorter.  I think I could shorten it a 
> fair bit in back as well and elevate where the stay mounts to stiffen up 
> that section a little bit more.  
>
> The good news from this 40 mile commute this morning is that the skinny 
> 700x28 New Express tires rode just fine for me.  I was worried that my fat 
> Compass Tire leanings were going to make me hate skinny tires.  They seemed 
> fine.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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[RBW] Re: Putting My Foot Down

[Jeremy Till]

In my experience, riding with a saddle lower than "the optimal" is has led 
to significant knee pain while pedaling. I have plenty of experience doing 
so, as guy with long legs who has worked as a mechanic, and thus spent a 
fair bit of time test riding bikes with saddles lower than mine. I don't 
see it as a racer thing, but rather a element of a high quality cycling 
experience whether you're"just riding," riding to the store, or out for a 
century. 

What's optimal? I used to tell people that they're shooting for about 80% 
leg extension at the bottom of the stroke, but that was just to give them a 
starting place. My real rule of thumb is this: if the front of your knee 
(i.e. under the kneecap) is hurting while you ride, your saddle is probably 
too low.  If the back of your knee (i.e. your hamstrings) is hurting while 
you ride, your saddle is probably too high.  No pain around the knees? 
You're probably in good shape.  

All that being said, I've come to discover that "the optimal" seat height 
for me is significantly lower than most systems based on measuring inseam 
or PBH would recommend for me. My current saddle height, which has worked 
well for at least the last 5 years and plenty of long rides, is 5-6 cm 
shorter than my Rivendell-recommended seat height. I have a few theories as 
to why.  The first is that I have very tight hamstrings, as I am reminded 
at every single yoga class I attend. The other is that I've gone completely 
over to riding flat pedals, and riding with my foot farther forward on the 
pedal than I did when I was using retention systems (I've used clips and 
straps, power grips, and clipless pedals). Doing so effectively shortens my 
leg, requiring a lower saddle height.  

To the OP, I would say that I think that riding with your seat "too low" 
for any kind of significant distance is probably a recipe for pain and 
injury. However: 

1. You might be able to get by with a lower saddle than you think, or is 
recommended for you.  Some experimentation based on the front/back of knee 
rule of thumb might help here. 
2. There are ways to setup your bike to achieve both a lower overall saddle 
height while maintaining good leg extension: flat pedals with a midfoot 
positioning, sliding your saddle farther back on the rails, thinner pedals, 
thinner shoes, etc. If your braking system and frame allows it, fitting 
smaller wheels than those for which your bike is designed will lower you 
down, but potentially at the risk of increased pedal strikes. 

If you look at the bikes ridden around European cities, you'll see that 
they incorporate many of these design features: flat pedals, very slack 
seat tube angles, and low bottom bracket heights, so a bike like that also 
makes it easier to put a foot down while riding with a good leg extension.  
There have been some bikes marketed here in the U.S. for the same purpose: 
the RANS referenced above, Electras, Day 6 bikes, etc. Although since we're 
on the RBW forum I'm guessing your talking about it in the context of 
riding a Rivendell bike. They tend to have low BB's and slacker seat tube 
angles (but maybe not Dutch-bike-slack), so they are definitely easier than 
some other bikes in this context. 
 
Finally, and depending on what bike you're riding with what kind of 
seatpost extension, there's always the high tech solution: a dropper post. 
There are a few 27.2mm dropper posts out there and I've seen a picture of 
at least one Clem (set up for mountain biking) with one. Roll up to the 
beer stop, hit the lever on your handlebars, and the ground is instantly 
80-175mm closer, depending on the model of dropper post.  


On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 3:27:14 AM UTC-8, Garth wrote:
>
>
>   Lower your saddle and/or take no thought about it.   Take a look at your 
> "average" European cyclist you see in the streets... the people for whom 
> cycling is simple a part of everyday living. The men and women who ride in 
> everything business suits and loafers to full dresses and high heels.  What 
> I see is no one adhering to any such subjective "rule" about saddle height 
> and leg bend angle and all the techno mumbo jumbo that really has no basis 
> in truth because if it did, everyone who didn't adhere to it would "suffer 
> the dire consequences" that  "saddle position theories" claims will happen 
> if you don't worship it.  Tell that to grandma in Amsterdam who's been 
> riding here whole life her saddle is too low, that she can ride 
> better/faster/stronger ... that what she's doing is "wrong" and can be 
> "improved",  and see how that goes !   
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 4:21:53 PM UTC-5, Marty Gierke, 
> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>>
>> Literally. I want to be able to put my foot down from my "in the saddle" 
>> position and not have to lean over at all, or maybe just a little, and not 
>> have to do a full ballerina pointe. Like many of you I'm guessing, I have 
>> an ancient echo in my head that tells my how 

[RBW] Re: Whoah! 1 x 12?????

[Jeremy Till]

This was especially funny to me as recently I have been reading the early 
Readers (thanks, Reed!) and there are many instances of Grant lamenting the 
unavailability of quality 6spd freewheels.  Now here's an Atlantis with 
double that number of cogs out back!

Living in the flatlands, I've come to appreciate more closely spaced gears 
than the 1x systems can offer, at least without greatly sacrificing overall 
range. 9 speeds out back with two or three chainrings up front seems to be 
the sweet spot for me.  

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 3:36:53 PM UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> The industry has gone to 12 now?
>
> They have a 1 x 12 on an Atlantis. Far out!.
>
>
> I also wonder if, with the existing 11 and 12 cogset setups if you are 
> tied in to a certain manufacturer, component-wise, like with indexing.
>

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[RBW] Re: Favorite grips for bar end shifters?

[Jeremy Till]

Oury! They come pre-grooved!  Seen here on my LHT (picture is old, the bike 
currently has drop bars):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/85709120@N07/9067518433/in/album-72157634176408215/
 

On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 8:20:44 PM UTC-7, Eric Myers wrote:
>
> Went for a 30 mile ride today on the Albatross bars, and somewhere between 
> 20 and 25 miles I found myself wishing for some part of the grip with more 
> padding.  Right now the main grip area is just a wrap of Neubaum's tape and 
> the rest is bare metal.  I didn't have great luck with the last cork grips 
> I tried, but maybe the new ones are better.  I just put something like the 
> Dutch Paddle grips on my son's bike and was about to get some for me but 
> I'm not sure how to make them work with bar ends.  I'm tempted to try the 
> silicone ones that Riv sells, but I'd love to hear about other solutions.
>

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[RBW] Re: Bike sizing by PBH, and wanting to give drop bars one more chance

[Jeremy Till]

My experience closely mimics yours. I'm 6'3" with long legs, and I think 
the couple of times Riv has measured my PBH it's been somewhere around 
95cm, for which they would recommend a seat height around 85cm, but over 
many years of riding I've arrived at 79-80 cm being the ideal seat height 
for me, depending on crank length. I think it's most because of tight 
hamstrings/glutes and preferring a midfoot riding position with flat 
pedals. 

When I bought my Surly LHT, I followed the Riv sizing recommendations and 
bought a 64cm one. Like your Sam, I originally had Albatrosses on it, then 
Boscos, and it was great with both of those bars. About 2.5 years ago I 
swapped in drops, and found that short-ish reach drops (Ritchey Biomax) 
with a short reach stem (70mm, +17 deg) worked well with that setup. I've 
since done some really long rides on that bike, including some 100+ mile 
days. I'd say it's probably one of the better fitting drop bar bikes I've 
ever owned. It doesn't hurt that in the same time I've done a fair bit of 
yoga, working on my core strength and flexibility. Recently, I've been 
thinking about swapping in some bars with a flatter ramp.  Noodles are a 
natural choice but I think their reach would be a bit much. I've got a pair 
of Salsa Cowbells in the bin that I'll probably try next. 

If I were designing a drop bar bike from scratch I could see that something 
with a shorter top tube might open up the reach a bit more and allow for 
longer bars like Noodles, Rando bars, or Maes Parallel bars. I've recently 
bought a used 64cm Rambouillet that might fit the bill (it's got a 60cm TT 
versus the LHT's 62cm), but it came with Albatross bars and I really like 
that setup. I doubt that I'd want to go to a smaller stock frame, as I 
don't think that I'd want the bars any lower than they currently are.  My 
eroica bike, a 1980's Medici racing frame, was 62cm and that required a 
short and high Technomic stem to get the bars up where I wanted them.  


On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 11:08:22 AM UTC-7, Eric Myers wrote:
>
> Up until about a month ago I rode 58cm sized bikes, in varying degrees of 
> (dis)comfort.  Then I started riding my new significantly larger Sam 
> Hillborne and realized all my older bikes are too small, so I've basically 
> decided to replace one of my old bikes with something similar (mid-80s 
> sport tourer) in a larger size, and sell the rest.  Now I'm trying to 
> figure out that sizing.
>
>  
>
> I'm a little over 6'1" (187cm) and long in the torso but with only normal 
> length arms, according to my dress shirts.  So to paraphrase an old joke, 
> my arms aren't quite long enough to reach the handlebars, and I need an 
> extra couple cm of handlebar/stem height to compensate. 
>
>  
>
> My PBH is 89.5 cm.  According to Rivendell, my saddle height should be 
> 78-79cm, and my starting frame size should be 62-64 cm (The Sam is 
> different because it is an expanded frame).  For whatever reason, that 
> saddle height is not comfortable and I tend to use something a couple cm 
> shorter.  (Possibly because I keep my feet further forward on the pedal?) 
>
>  
>
> On the Sam I have Albatross bars and love them, but would like to have a 
> second bike with a different cockpit.  Stretching forward has generally not 
> been as comfortable to me as riding in the drops against a headwind, so I 
> am hoping that a larger frame, plus a short reach stem (I'd try one of 
> Analog's w(Right) stems if they were cheaper), and short reach drops like 
> the Soma Highway 1 bar might add up to something comfortable.
>
>  
>
> If you have a similar body challenges, or a preference for a slightly 
> shorter saddle height, I'd love to hear about your thoughts and experience 
> on bike sizing.  Ditto for drop bars.  I know I'm going to have to try 
> riding a number of different bikes, but I'd like to start out trying the 
> right size.
>
>  
>
> Best regards,
>
> Eric
>

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