RE: [RCSE] Maple Leaf Design - New Site
Craig, Adam Weston flew one at Poway, and placed in the top 10, and then flew one in the German Open and placed fairly well also. Heck, he beat you at Poway! Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Maple Leaf Design - New Site From: Craig Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, August 22, 2008 9:23 pm To: soaring@airage.com soaring@airage.com Just curios ... Does anyone know anyone who has bought an Encore in the last couple of years And an Icon 2 at $2,200.. I'm rolling on the floor :-)) --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Joe Nave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Joe Nave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] Maple Leaf Design - New Site To: soaring@airage.com Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 7:35 PM Greetings... Maple Leaf Design, the makers of the Encore DLG and the Icon2 have a new site up. Check it out: www.mapleleafdesign.com Joe RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Removing old covering, more info
Craig, If it is dope based, then acetone will work fine. However, any color in the dope will probably remain in the wood or seep into the wood. I might try nail polish remover, as it has some MEK, which like acetone, works but is less volatile and may contain some nitromethane. You might try methylene chloride or chloroform. I do not thin isopropyl alcohol will work, but perhaps some mineral spirits. Do remember that if there is any foam, then all this stuff is useless. I have a Friend who works alot with nitrate dope and tissue who I will try to contact for more info. He is a free flighter from 40 years ago! Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Removing old covering, more info From: Craig Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, August 18, 2008 7:49 am To: soaring@airage.com soaring@airage.com It's hard to tell what type of covering it is... It's over 40 years old so it can't be any type of iron on, Its not silk, but does apear to be dope based Craig RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Gordy's Sand Dollars
Gordy, What is the cut you get for all the diamond rings, jewelry, watches, and money you find when your machines filter the sand I saw them do a blurb last night on them for the Men's Beach Volleyball event. Are the machines Made in China and do the Radio Controls use 2.4 GHz Inquiring minds want to know! Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Gordy's Sand Dollars From: Paul Rickie Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, August 16, 2008 7:36 am To: Soaring@airage.com Gordy!! For heavens sake WHAT has making dollars with radio control beach cleaners have to do with Radio Control Soaring--have you lost your creativity !!?? What a bummer! This post!? I am announcing I am going to be slope soaring my tired/ Blushing /Taboo up the west coast of Japan as well as a L.A. /Scrappy /(mini zagi like wing made from scraps--now that is creativity, Gordy) that my son Jonathan built and gave me for a Father's Day past! So there, Gordy. From the Isles BEYOND Hawaii, Gordy!! (Gordy doesn't know Japan from Hawaii any more than he knows the difference between beer and barley pops! Skypilot RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Several DLG questions
Dan, Many of your questions have answers and much more info on RCgroups.com on the Handlaunch forums. See:http://www.rcgroups.com/hand-launch-96/ As for the other questions, most are using composite winged planes because of their stiffness, airfoil accuracy, and ease of building. There are many built up plane kits out there, of which the DL50 is nice. there are build logs for it as well as others Whig you might find helpful. As for the separate rudder and elevator, sub-rudders assist with reducing boom bending, hence building a rudder and not having to split it for an elevator is nice. As for elevators, again, you have a much lighter and stronger structure. However, one of the best real reasons is transporting the plane. You can remove the elevator and the fuse then lies flat in a box, or whatever. The tailfeathers are quite light and delicate, so this prevent hanger rash! As for aerodynamics, you still have the intersections of the surfaces, so drag is not really that much different. In some cases you can uses an all moving stab, and that helps with obtaining the best incidence for launching and thermaling. There are other reasons, so again, I invite you to look at RCgroups, and you can pour through all the old posts and questions. There are lots of pictures, so that helps alot too. Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Several DLG questions From: Dan Ashenfelter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, August 12, 2008 5:00 pm To: soaring@airage.com Gentlemen: Before flying season fades into the sunset, I would like to build a DLG. At this point in my life I have more time than money, so I am looking at a built-up entry level kit rather than spending $300+ for an ARF or a high-performance kit. I have been researching quite a bit over the last several days, and the conventional built-up kit selection is rather sparse. Right now, the most likely candidates are the QF2 from Mountain Models and the Gambler AF from Wright Brothers RC. I have also considered the relatively low cost ARF Apache from SoaringUSA.com As I researched built-up DLG's it seemed that most of them were 50 span or less rather than the usual 1.5m span that dominates the higher end models. Is this for structural integrity or mostly for personal convenience/choice? As a novice DLG flyer should I look toward shorter span models or stick with the 1.5m ships? I am also curious to understand why the vertical and horizontal tail surfaces are separated on most DLG's. Aerodynamically I know that fewer intersections helps with drag, but are there other reasons for doing so? I have been flying r/c for 36+ years so I am not a novice to model flight but DLG is a whole new world for me. If anyone on the exchange has experience with the models named above (or similar kits) or can offer a novice DLG pilot some practical advise on span choice, Rudder/Elevator vs Rudder/Aileron/Elevator, polyhedral vs dihedral models or any other area that might prove helpful, I would be very grateful. Thanks Dan Ashenfelter Fort Dodge, Iowa RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Re: testing Missing posts???
I am unsure if this is response to an old post, but if it is not and old post, then: Darwin, good proposal for thought! After reading Darwin’s comment, I have to agree with his suggestion to combine the modern RES class with Open. Back when Visalia first proposed an RES class, before the AVA and its equivalents, RES was touted by many to be the builder class as well as the partially the woody-nostalgia class. Those of us that were not as quick with our thumbs, or relished a somewhat less stressful class, welcomed it. The class is like other classes in the AMA schedule, it represents a way for upcoming pilots to have fun, as well as permit older or less competitive pilots to still participate. But as in nearly all types of RC soaring, technology breeds advancement, design, and this necessitates advanced composites, and we get to the point where to be competitive, at least in some fashion, you have to have deep pockets. Obviously, there are those of us who still build, only with CF now rather than wood, but the majority of competitors nowadays just buy the best they can afford. Really, to be competitive, just buy a known ship and fly. However, Darwin, how about bringing back a strict “builder of the model” rule event? What was a “true modeler” anyway? This opens it all up to variety, yet might retain the idea and some excitement. None of this glue servos in, trim and fly stuff, but perhaps require the builder to bring the mold to show. Wood, well, wood is wood, but still not prebuilt wood like an AVA. Those who obviously build composites from mold would probably want to be in the Open class anyway, but those who want to build, experiment and enjoy might find an event not something that really is being placed on the back burner of a contest. We encourage differences between juniors, seniors and open in the AMA, but is there really a difference there either? Buy a hot ship and place it in the hands of a upcoming junior and he or she becomes a major contender. We do not have separate events, that lead up to the top, like dirt cars, sprint cars, Bush series, then NASCAR, probably because of numbers. On the other hand, we do have a “grey cup” for those of us not as quick with our thumbs, or sight. What is really the intent here, an old RES equivalent? I might also like to ask why so many classes? Is it for money making purposes of the clubs, or is it to increase the pilot’s flying opportunities if they travel? Recent posts here and in other groups mention that some contests will not become prominent until they are of sufficient day duration and flying opportunities to make them attractive. For myself, I find that DLG/HLG offer me the opportunity to fly much more than any of the other TD events. These contests off more of other items as well. OK, for all those who expect this, or disagree, or even think I am complaining, back to my regular Thorazine treatments. ;-) Chris Adams From Darwin: Come on guys, lay off 2 Meter. I'll bet most have not even given it a serious try. If you did, I believe you'd like the challenge. It will improve all aspects of your flying. I remember years ago when RES was envisioned. It was supposed to be a simple class with simple airplanes for those not interested in spending big $$$ on Open class planes. Well look what happened. It actually became a 3 channel Open class, called RES. For the most part, you have to have the high dollar RES moldie to be competitive. As a result, we had to add another Class, Woody. This is a true modelers Class. You want a solution, dump RES and combine it with Open. After all, they are 3 channel Open class planes, launch as high and can range out quite far. The only real difference is landing. I see the better RES guys whooping the Open class guys anyway, so lump them all together. Just some thoughts. Now, my second cup of coffee!!! Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: testing From: Darwin Barrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, July 27, 2008 11:17 am To: Jeff Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Soaring@airage.com The tests are going through but my post regarding 2 Meter must be being blocked for some reason. The post is nothing in the scheme of things. I'm getting pissed. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZOn Jul 27, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Jeff Reid wrote: Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:24:01 -0700 From: Darwin Barrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: Testing Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've attempted 2 posts over the past couple of days and they haven't posted. What's up? I've had the same issue. I've posted a few times and nwever see the posts show up. I'm receiving the archived version if this makes any difference. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent
RE: [RCSE] German Open F3K Finals
Steve, I asked a AMA official about the status of F3K as a WC event supported by the AMA. I was told that it would not be supported unless one of the F3B or F3J was dropped. I guess soaring is getting popular. F3K all over s growing very rapidly. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] German Open F3K Finals From: S Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, August 03, 2008 5:45 pm To: Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com soaring@airage.com Ben Wilson wrote: ... That's out of 112 participants. Someone (who shall remain nameless) at the US F3K NATS said to me they have 112 people at a *handlaunch* contest? Yes, (name), handlaunch is popular everywhere else in the world except the US Nationals. There's a good reason why 8 (almost 10) of our top pilots went to Germany instead of the NATS - though it might have been the draught beer on tap on the field! (When can we get that at Muncie?) I witnessed quite a few beers, though nothing on tap. You have to bring your own. BYOB. Bubba, the number 1 beer connoisseur, was seen clutching a vintage pint most evenings. There were also mojitos, wine, cheese, guacamole, hamburgers, brats, steaks, pork tenderloin, bean casserole, and much more. You just need to stay more than one day and hang out with the right people. :-) Voice your opinions to your LSF officials that you would like a 2 day HL contest and that you will attend. We don't want HL to go the way of Scale, Scale CC, and soon F3B. Steve Meyer LSF IV RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] RES vs UNL vs DLG
Ah Yes, and... If God wanted us to build fiberglass (and Carbon and Kevlar) wings, he would have given us Fiberglass trees! Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] RES vs UNL vs DLG From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, August 04, 2008 3:25 pm To: Bill's Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: RCSE soaring@airage.com Friends don't let friends build with balsa!!! :^) Mark Mech www.aerofoam.com - Original Message - From: Bill's Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: RCSE soaring@airage.com Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] RES vs UNL vs DLG I think it is abundantly clear the path that is needed to be taken in soaring to restore it to all its glory. Yes, I am talking about the complete prohibition of all but one aircraft from soaring competition. The one and only aircraft that shall be used is the venerable Skeeter, and it MUST be built by the pilot. This will restore the need for building skills and also positively determine who the best pilot is. Anyone who can keep a Skeeter aloft from more than a few minutes truly is a a soaring God!! So there it is, the salvation of soaring is the Skeeter. Who'd a thunk it?? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Apology to Ben
Ben, I have to apologize for my rapid and quite offensive response to your post. I believe, as you do, that F3K/DLG is one of the most rapidly expanding forms of RC soaring, much like what park flyers and EPP did for the RC arena. The recognition of F3K and DLG is increasing as larger TD sites become unavailable in some localities. I was taken back about comments about the German Open because there were other US pilots there, not just the quoted names of the top US pilots. It seems that the others get relegated to background noise. Reporting for the German Open is extensively done on the Handlaunch glider forum of RCgroups, and I as well as others have posted pictures and comments. Peoples say Go US Team not know that there were three (3) US teams since the team signups were open to anybody. USA Team 2 had Bruce Davidson, Mike Seid, and Adam Weston grouped together, while USA Team 3 contained the remainder of us, Jeff Carr, Bret Carr, and myself. Obviously our groupings were decided by us to put forth the best team USA team 1 3rd), but indeed Team 2 (8th) faired very well, and Team 3 was not last (LOL 25th). My goals are much like yours, to disseminate plane design information, and I am trying to do this on RCgroups with my posts and views. I hope we can propagate the sport of F3K /DLG because I know it will become big, very fast. Once again, I apologize for my response and taking the issue the wrong way. Thermals, Chris Adams Original Message Subject: RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 9:00 pm To: Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com, LASS Soaring List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ben, I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here. Perhaps Jeff and Bret are just as insulted. I have been flying HLG longer than you are probably old, old enough for me to be your father and grandfather! Just so you know, there were three other US pilots at the German Open, yet you never acknowledge US!! I have flown HLG long before anybody ever thought about HLG contests. I flew in Dave Thornburg's HLG contest, and even designed a 66 HLG for it which parallels what we fly today. I fly HLG/DLG because it gives me the enjoyment and independence of not having to wait for winch lines or frequency control. Jeff Carr, Bret Carr and I supported our US group and flew. We may not be the creme of the crop that Oleg, Bruce, Paul or Phil may be, but we participate for each of our own reasons. You make it sound like we are invisible to the rest of the group. I think you are somewhat lost. I design and build DLGs because I enjoy the opportunity that they offer me. Of the US group, besides Oleg who flew his 5 year old Taboo designs, I was the only US guy there flying My Own design!!! DLG pilots fly DLG for one basic reason, it allows each of us to fly independently and to not depend on waiting for winches or any other complaints from others. I can go out and fly in the AM, Noon hour, or PM, and enjoy my time hunting the elusive thermal. Contests are not the only thing that matters in this world when it comes to flying. Some of us design, others fly, but in the end we fly fly fly!. In my opinion, the AMA does not know what DLG is doing for the world of soaring. TD contests will be going by the wayside. Bruce Davidson put it quite plainly at the German Open to me, why should he travel 10 hours, fly three or 4 flights then drive back from a TD contest, when he can fly DLG, many rounds and many flights and have the enjoyment of not having to just do spot landings. I will go to more DLG contests than TD contests this year and I am perhaps giving up TD contest entirely. I can do the social event at HLG/DLG contests and still get the technical and design satisfaction of DLG flying. After all What is DLG but a subclass of TD. Perhaps we should be saying that TD is really a subclass of HLG/DLG because we used to thermal out TD ships from Hand launches when we test glided TD ships! Personally I see DLG support by the AMA replacing F3B and even perhaps F3J, as a world class group. So I think you owe Jeff, Bret and Me an apology for not recognizing us as participants at the German Open at the same level as Oleg, Bruce, Paul, Phil and the rest. Don't forget, Bret did make the Junior flyoffs and did place in that realm! Please come back when you realize there are others who fly also. Thermals, Chris Adams LSF 348 Lvl V (#8) Original Message Subject: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch. From: Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 7:15 pm To: soaring@airage.com, LASS Soaring List [EMAIL PROTECTED] So y'all have probably heard my whining about the lack of 2 days of handlaunch at the NATS, so let me pitch you my argument for it and for better attention paid to handlaunch by soaring in general. This is the product of a number
RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
Oh Yes, please send me an applications. LOL Chris Original Message Subject: RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch. From: TG Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, July 30, 2008 8:05 am To: Mark Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com Bravo Mark, Now on to something that I SHOULD be upset about. I just got an email from AARPHOLY CRAP...isnt that the sign of the coming apocalypse? Oh man, it's just prostrate exams and midnight trips to the bathroom from here on out. So whose going to Visalia this year? Tom Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:31:53 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch. To: soaring@airage.com Ben, I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here. Perhaps Jeff and Bret are just as insulted. I went to the NATS last year. Came in 33rd. in Unlimited. No one mentioned my name as attending. Should I be insulted? I'm not, as I do not need the pat on the back from my fellow man to be happy. I am plenty happy in my own mind with 33rd. Usually I am down about 100 more places. Bravo to everyone who took the time, effort and expense to attend in the German F3K event. Mark RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format _ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_family_safety_072008 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
Ben, I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here. Perhaps Jeff and Bret are just as insulted. I have been flying HLG longer than you are probably old, old enough for me to be your father and grandfather! Just so you know, there were three other US pilots at the German Open, yet you never acknowledge US!! I have flown HLG long before anybody ever thought about HLG contests. I flew in Dave Thornburg's HLG contest, and even designed a 66 HLG for it which parallels what we fly today. I fly HLG/DLG because it gives me the enjoyment and independence of not having to wait for winch lines or frequency control. Jeff Carr, Bret Carr and I supported our US group and flew. We may not be the creme of the crop that Oleg, Bruce, Paul or Phil may be, but we participate for each of our own reasons. You make it sound like we are invisible to the rest of the group. I think you are somewhat lost. I design and build DLGs because I enjoy the opportunity that they offer me. Of the US group, besides Oleg who flew his 5 year old Taboo designs, I was the only US guy there flying My Own design!!! DLG pilots fly DLG for one basic reason, it allows each of us to fly independently and to not depend on waiting for winches or any other complaints from others. I can go out and fly in the AM, Noon hour, or PM, and enjoy my time hunting the elusive thermal. Contests are not the only thing that matters in this world when it comes to flying. Some of us design, others fly, but in the end we fly fly fly!. In my opinion, the AMA does not know what DLG is doing for the world of soaring. TD contests will be going by the wayside. Bruce Davidson put it quite plainly at the German Open to me, why should he travel 10 hours, fly three or 4 flights then drive back from a TD contest, when he can fly DLG, many rounds and many flights and have the enjoyment of not having to just do spot landings. I will go to more DLG contests than TD contests this year and I am perhaps giving up TD contest entirely. I can do the social event at HLG/DLG contests and still get the technical and design satisfaction of DLG flying. After all What is DLG but a subclass of TD. Perhaps we should be saying that TD is really a subclass of HLG/DLG because we used to thermal out TD ships from Hand launches when we test glided TD ships! Personally I see DLG support by the AMA replacing F3B and even perhaps F3J, as a world class group. So I think you owe Jeff, Bret and Me an apology for not recognizing us as participants at the German Open at the same level as Oleg, Bruce, Paul, Phil and the rest. Don't forget, Bret did make the Junior flyoffs and did place in that realm! Please come back when you realize there are others who fly also. Thermals, Chris Adams LSF 348 Lvl V (#8) Original Message Subject: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch. From: Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 7:15 pm To: soaring@airage.com, LASS Soaring List [EMAIL PROTECTED] So y'all have probably heard my whining about the lack of 2 days of handlaunch at the NATS, so let me pitch you my argument for it and for better attention paid to handlaunch by soaring in general. This is the product of a number of discussions I've had with a number of people involved with soaring at different levels over the past couple of years, so here goes: AN INTRODUCTION I've been in soaring since 2003, and have been to the NATS the last 4 years in some capacity or another. My first love is handlaunch, but I'm also a big fan of RES and Unlimited stuff. I also got the international-style bug last year towing for an F3J team at the NATS. Second, let me state that I have helped Denny Maize over the last 3 years organize his Polecat Challenge. In those years, it's gone from a pretty well attended contest (40 pilots) to last year, which had 93 registered and paid pilots. Around 80 or so flew. (Yes, we managed to top the IHLGF this year, but that might just be a statistical wobble, or it could be the Red Bull girls, pig roast or huge soaring raffle). As I was intimately involved with the registration of the pilots and the gathering and reporting of information about that contest as well as the NATS last year, I've got a somewhat unique perspective into handlaunch and soaring. I stress handlaunch and soaring there, because the crossover between HL and TD is pretty well delineated. There are a lot of people doing HL and more doing TD, but there is only modest intersection between the two. SOME NUMBERS At the Polecat Challenge, out of the 80-some pilots: 13 of them were Novices, meaning that they hadn't flown a contest before. 29 of them were Sportsmen. The rest were experts. The average age for handlaunch competitors skews much younger than soaring in general (this is empirical) Last year at the NATS when I did the coverage for the NATSNews, I had to hunt and peck for guys who were new to soaring or the NATS
[RCSE] RE: I say we find Ben and Crach his throwing peg!!!!
Good try Gordy, I know that is something your would do! ;-) I don't care that he took time to post, we all post and some of use do posts on RCgroups. There were 9 of us there, Oleg, Phil Paul, Adam, Jeff, Bret, Mike, Bret, and myself, Yet the only ones recognized were what appears to be the top. In 25 years, Oleg, Phil, Paul, Mike will be the the old group who no one recognizes or care about. But if they show up will anybody recognize them??? It is funny to see someone who was not there, who did not see the planes, nor other competitors, report Postumously. I have plenty of photos, and started my report. Phil, Bruce, and others saw the contests one way, the rest of us saw it another. I will post in good time, but not here, rather on RC groups. Ben may be working on LSF V, but Been there Done that, and I perhaps even force Steve and John to get theirs!! Chris Original Message Subject: I say we find Ben and Crach his throwing peg From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 9:07 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Got you Chris! I told him to leave you off knowing it would piss you off :-) In any case it wasn't who was left out of his post...its that he took the time to post something at all! You'll note no one else did. Nice report Ben. For those of you who don't know Ben, he is one of Louisville's top thermal pilots. He's been an official Nats reporter and one of our Little Lee's soaring mentors...(yeah the little guy who won the MidSouth Soaring Champs...and ugh is headed toward taking over DLG in the near future...and shortly LSF4! Ben is working on his LSF 5 tasks with meand someone I count as a best buddy in the hobby. Gordy Asheville NC tonite..you? In a message dated 7/29/2008 11:01:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben, I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here. Perhaps Jeff and Bret are just as insulted. I have been flying HLG longer than you are probably old, old enough for me to be your father and grandfather! Just so you know, there were three other US pilots at the German Open, yet you never acknowledge US!! I have flown HLG long before anybody ever thought about HLG contests. I flew in Dave Thornburg's HLG contest, and even designed a 66 HLG for it which parallels what we fly today. I fly HLG/DLG because it gives me the enjoyment and independence of not having to wait for winch lines or frequency control. Jeff Carr, Bret Carr and I supported our US group and flew. We may not be the creme of the crop that Oleg, Bruce, Paul or Phil may be, but we participate for each of our own reasons. You make it sound like we are invisible to the rest of the group. I think you are somewhat lost. I design and build DLGs because I enjoy the opportunity that they offer me. Of the US group, besides Oleg who flew his 5 year old Taboo designs, I was the only US guy there flying My Own design!!! DLG pilots fly DLG for one basic reason, it allows each of us to fly independently and to not depend on waiting for winches or any other complaints from others. I can go out and fly in the AM, Noon hour, or PM, and enjoy my time hunting the elusive thermal. Contests are not the only thing that matters in this world when it comes to flying. Some of us design, others fly, but in the end we fly fly fly!. In my opinion, the AMA does not know what DLG is doing for the world of soaring. TD contests will be going by the wayside. Bruce Davidson put it quite plainly at the German Open to me, why should he travel 10 hours, fly three or 4 flights then drive back from a TD contest, when he can fly DLG, many rounds and many flights and have the enjoyment of not having to just do spot landings. I will go to more DLG contests than TD contests this year and I am perhaps giving up TD contest entirely. I can do the social event at HLG/DLG contests and still get the technical and design satisfaction of DLG flying. After all What is DLG but a subclass of TD. Perhaps we should be saying that TD is really a subclass of HLG/DLG because we used to thermal out TD ships from Hand launches when we test glided TD ships! Personally I see DLG support by the AMA replacing F3B and even perhaps F3J, as a world class group. So I think you owe Jeff, Bret and Me an apology for not recognizing us as participants at the German Open at the same level as Oleg, Bruce, Paul, Phil and the rest. Don't forget, Bret did make the Junior flyoffs and did place in that realm! Please come back when you realize there are others who fly also. Thermals, Chris Adams LSF 348 Lvl V (#8) Original Message Subject: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch. From: Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 7:15 pm To: soaring@airage.com, LASS Soaring
[RCSE] Flying in Maryland
I'm thinking of taking a job out in Princess Anne Maryland and was wondering if there were any DLGers or just plane glider folk in that area? Thanks, Chris Rose
RE: [RCSE] Spare LSF5 Wins For Sale
Hey, I have an extra LSF5 goal and return from 1978 that might be usable. I do not know the condition. Let me know. Chris Adams LSF 348 Lvl V (#8) Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Spare LSF5 Wins For Sale From: Me [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, July 19, 2008 12:48 pm To: RCSE soaring@airage.com Hi guys I just picked up a couple more spare LSF 5 wins Contact me off line if youd like to buy a few, I think ihave I have at least 6 I can spare :-) Gordy A good had by all in Lansing today,ended before the rain. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Contest idea....Time on tow penalty for TD?
Craig, What is with messing around with winch time All minimizing winch time does is make planes go up faster, and have them built like composite bullets. Why not do something simple, like take the weight of the plane, mulitply it by seconds and get a max time you have to fly?? We once talked about this , way back, when people used to fly scale, or really stand off scale in the LSF tounaments and SSOAR NAT (that dates me!) Pilots often chose unique projects that could not compete with the slicker ships. A Schul Glider had a L/D of 15: or so. If you took the L/D and multiply it by say 10 seconds, that meant that your max time had to be 150 seconds (2.5 minutes), which was reasonable for draggy, early gliders. If you had a Kestral, with an L/D of 36:1, that meant 360 seconds, or 6 minutes. That was reasonable for a slick glider. That kept scale gliders of all vintages competitive. So...let me ask this: What happens if the launch is a discus launch of a 100 glider NO TOW TIME Think about it. If you know you can hand launch into a thermal, why loose 4-5 seconds every time Hello JW!! Personally, any time you try to do this stuff, it always ends up with a conclusion no one wants to fly! Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest ideaTime on tow penalty for TD? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, July 15, 2008 6:03 am To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com In a message dated 07/14/2008 8:21:54 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After watching the World F3J I had an idea for a contest... Incorporate the time penalty on tow that they have in F3J but in a TD format. You would have a timer at each winch who would time your launch and write that time down on your card... For example if it were a 10 min task and you towed for 6 sec the best time you could get would be a 9:54 even though you flew a perfect 10... Or even better... Double the time on tow penalty, so if it was a 6 sec tow the best time you could get would be 9:48. Seems to me it would throw more strategy and fun into a normal TD contest Suggestions ? Comments? Craig Having read the other replies, I think the solution would be to have a device that timed the length of time the winch motor was on for the launch and deduct that from the score. That would allow a woody to tap up to the top and take their time doing so without incurring the time on tow penalty. The penalty would then be for time using power on tow. Bill Wingstedt **Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus0005000112) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Johnny Berlin's 8 hour task
Congratulations!! So when are you starting to do it again??? Thermals, Chris Adams LSF 348 LvL V (#8) Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Johnny Berlin's 8 hour task From: Dennis Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, July 13, 2008 4:12 pm To: soaring@airage.com soaring@airage.com I just got a call from Harry and Johnny Berlin successfully completed his 8 hour Level V task today along the lake Michigan shoreline with perfect sloap conditions and has now completed all level V requirements. 8 hrs, 1 minute, 20 seconds. Harry De Boer and Ted Grossner witnessed the flight. Congratulations Johnny! Dennis Hoyle WMSS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Could CD's Please Collect Plane's Flown By Whom?....
Gordy, As a designer, I look at the overall list as more of a Manufacturer's advertising list. Think about it, each plane costs over $2500 to have in flying condition, and each is like a Formula 1/Indy racer in it's own regard. For information on planes, I would be interested in 3 views (probably already available), weights, airfoils, etc. However, are any of the planes Original Designs? DP mentioned he was building a moldie a while back, and I was looking forward to hearing of it's results. Are the planes so close in performance that differences do not matter? Years ago, F3B Worlds used to distribute data on ships, new approaches to old problems etc. I compiled a DVD back in 2001 of IHLGF data and it was distributed. I an going to the German Open and home to take alot of pictures because how we address design issues for US conditions is alot different from the design conditions in Europe. I would love to see more regarding planes, setups, etc. Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Could CD's Please Collect Plane's Flown By Whom?Thanks! (F3J World Planes) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, July 01, 2008 3:40 am To: Soaring@airage.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _http://www.f3x.no/f3j/2008/models08.htm_ (http://www.f3x.no/f3j/2008/models08.htm) Here's the kind of list that we have all dreamed would be posted after every USA TD contest ever held in history! :-). Take a look guys, it will show you whats considered hot in F3J right now...or at least what was available :-). Gordy **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut000507) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] July MA Mag..
I hope Middle America can send some of that water over here to Northern Calif to fight the fires, as Reno (downwind) is engulfed in the smoke from them. It makes it hard on the eyes, as well as needing to build in the garage! I know the pain the firefighters are having. It is amazing the differences a mountain range makes! Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] July MA Mag.. From: Darwin Barrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, June 25, 2008 2:37 pm To: Mark Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED],Soaring@airage.com I feel for all of you guys in Middle America. Darwin On Jun 25, 2008, at 12:24 PM, Mark Miller wrote: Maybe if you did a column about gliders flying off of water it would have made it. Since our sod farm is currently flooded we could have been the subject club. Mark Miller MVSA - Original Message From: Darwin Barrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:03:00 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] July MA Mag.. Hi Brian, I don't know what happened. I'll have to call them. I have 2 into them now. Due to the Nationals the next one will be Sept. There should be one there now though. Darwin On Jun 25, 2008, at 9:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey !! No soaring column?? Brian RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] 9303 aileron to rudder coupling
I am trying to set up my 9303 to turn off the aileron rudder coupling via the right back Mix switch. I have been unable to locate the setup as I had on my 8103. Can some help with a pointer on how to do it? Thanks Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] 9303 aileron to rudder coupling
Mike, you are quite right, old habits. I was trying to use the Aileron to Rudder standard mix rather than using a separate programming mix. I guess I have to set the pre-programmed mix to 0 and go to the programmed mix. I use on/off on my DLG so I can practice rudder with my left thumb. I prefer coupling, but I wanted to see a good roll with a new DLG just built. I set my rudder up exponentially, so that my rudder kicks in fast before the aileron takes over. I like more top-rudder ( believe that is what that is). I found recently I was cross-coupling the aileron and rudder for flatter turns. My old habits go back to just rudder elevator on planes with more dihedral. Thanks for the help. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] 9303 aileron to rudder coupling From: Mike Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, June 04, 2008 2:46 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com soaring@airage.com Some old habits don't go away... Normally aileron to rudder coupling is set up by flight mode. Flight modes make it possible to have more than two mixes. In fact for aileron to rudder, you should set the mix to 100% in launch mode in case you forget to use the correct stick. My suggestion if you want on/off mixing would be to use one of the programmable mixers. Configure aileron to rudder. Have the mix switch change you to position 1. Set the aileron to rudder mix rates you want for position 0 and then leave the mixes for position 1 at 0. In reality you probably don't want to go to 0, just a very low value. So you could set position 1 to some small numbers like 6 or 7. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am trying to set up my 9303 to turn off the aileron rudder coupling via the right back Mix switch. I have been unable to locate the setup as I had on my 8103. Can some help with a pointer on how to do it? Thanks Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Gordy IN Poway, WOW, wonders do happen (?)
Gordy, WOW, Poway, isn't that out of your league?? No doubt, you will be flying the World's Heaviest DLG, and I thought I was the only one to be doing that! Really, I do not see you listed on the Pilot's Roster??? Let's NOT see you fly Senior class! I'll be there! Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] JR Aero Tow, blown out today :-( From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, May 30, 2008 9:59 am To: Soaring@airage.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi guys, I just happened to have had an appointment on Lake Michigan yesterday morning, then one on a golf course construction site in Illinois not far from Monticello yesterday afternoon :-) So here I am in my motel, just finish giving my new girl a full body rub down, yes even some of the cavities got creamed but no worries, I picked some extra terry towels! Her name is Sharon and I can tell you that she is absolutely glowing bright red after a very vigorous buffing! (I picked up some amazing polish at the local AutoZone) I was going to head over to the field when TK gave me a call letting me know that the day was called due to the wild weather heading this way today. Tomorrow is supposed to be perfect so I may stay over to play. Tonite it will be steaks and beers and lots of stories for sure. Wish you were here! Gordy See you at Poway next weekend at the DLG International. PS. Anyone flying sailplanes in China, Malaysia, or Korea two or three weeks? **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch Cooking with Tyler Florence on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?NCID=aolfod000302) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] 2.4
Darwin, While I am listed on Ch 17, I had Ron switch me to 2.4. I will be flying it in my old Encore variant, and my New Spider DLG. My Original Fuselages are all Kevlar. Chris Adams Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] 2.4 From: John Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, May 29, 2008 8:33 am To: Darwin Barrie [EMAIL PROTECTED], Soaring List Soaring@airage.com Darwin, I'm flying the Lightspeed and the Vandal on the FASST system. I have my Taboo on a 72 mhz channel, hence my name on the roster that way. My 2.4 receivers have been flawless to date. The Futaba is an easier install than the competitors; you don't have a satellite receiver with all it's associated wiring. All you need to do is find a good resting spot for the ends of the antennae. On both pods there are bands of carbon and Kevlar. I glue a little soda straw on the Kevlar portion and that in turn receives the antennae end. I also try to orient the other antennae at 90º of the first, in a balsa fairing on the Lightspeed and on the little deck under the canopy on the Vandal. Why aren't there more? Because we're a cheap group! We have receivers that work, so why jump across? I see it as a gradual change. 10 years from now they will be universally used. JE -- Erickson Architects John R. Erickson, AIA From: Darwin Barrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 07:14:07 -0700 To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] 2.4 I thought 2.4 was all the rage. People abandoning 72 and ham band en masse to use 2.4 and selling everything off. So, why are we not seeing it as much in the sailplane world? At the SW Classic there were not nearly as many as I expected. I did not get the count but it was far less than we thought we'd get. Now, I was reviewing the pilot list for the IHLGF and see that there are only 4 pilots using 2.4, myself included (53 total entries). I am using the Futaba Fasst System. I have the 9C Super transmitter with the 2.4 Fasst Module and the 607 Fasst receivers in my Blaster, Blaster 2 and Vandal. These small receivers fit nicely and the two whisker antennas are easily exited from the fuselage. So far they are working great with no range issues. Admittedly, I have not used the system in a crowded environment, but I have no doubt it will work fine. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Mikey and 60 Acres
Mikey, You and the electric fliers are entitled to your own opinion, but the undisputable fact, yes fact that remains is this. You and your electric associates are only able to fly at 60 Acres for one reason and one reason only. That reason happens to be the monumental pro bono work lead by non other than Sherman Knight. You said you signed the petition, twice no less! Thanks a lot, Dude! Many SASS members and others have spent hours cranking out letters well past midnight on work nights, in addition to other activities. And the postage really can add up. In general the electric fliers have been so silent for so long. Now they are dissing General Sherman! How can you guys even show your faces at the field? Chris _ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008
RE: [RCSE] Re: written communication nuances
I agree, but most do not read, but rather skim the text, read what they think they are reading, and then answer without knowing even their side. My addage: It is better to not answer and let people think you are an idiot, than to reply, and remove all doubt. Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Re: written communication nuances From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, April 28, 2008 3:50 pm To: Soaring@airage.com That's what education was for. We're supposed to know how to read and write effectively. If we can't write with nuances, we can't write jokes. If someone is reading one of my posts and steam starts coming out of their ears, most of the time they can most easily remedy this by reading it again, carefully. It's not that I don't make a big mistake once in a while, but generally I'm just trying to lead the reader a ways down the garden path before revealing the punchline. Also, generally, I read the messages over several times before sending them. (hint: If you see words like organic, idiot, goat, vegan, cannibal, unobtainium, bozo, etc., be suspicious. Chances are I'm pulling your leg. Unless I'm talking about CJD, kuru, etc. Or politics. Come to think of it, is there much difference?) Carlos Reyes wrote: This is a surprisingly common problem. I read a research report once that studied the effectiveness of written communication. I forget the exact details, but a major finding was that most of the time the reader *thinks* they understood the intended meaning and emotion, when in fact they didn't. I've learned to be careful in jumping to conclusions and to be very clear in what I write. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] JR/Specktrum 2.4 Stuff, Bet You Didn't Know This!
Gordy, I guess what all this means is that the TX trnansmits your screw-ups faster to the plane? Gee, now everyone will see the plane swerve faster left and right as it approaches the spot. I'm glad I got the new 9303. Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] JR/Specktrum 2.4 Stuff, Bet You Didn't Know This! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, April 18, 2008 12:47 pm To: Soaring@airage.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have owned an XPS conversion for my 9303 for some time and used it at the SWC in my Woody, the same carbon fuse challenges apply to their system but not much has been done by sailplaners to solve the install to make it work I'm new to the JR Spektrum systems so spending more time and thought on it right nowand like the rest of us, I've been nagging the experts with questions, so to minimize FAQ's I'll keep sharing what I find out.:-) I asked if there was a difference between a dedicated 2.4 9303 and a 9303 with a Spektrum 2.4 module, cuz you knowlike all sailplaners I'm cheap! :-) I had heard some thing on the fields about one being faster or some such so didn't pay much attention, but there really is a reason to get the dedicated 2.4 TX. Take a look, Integrated 2.4 has 2048 resolution and lower latency (faster response time) then the module system which reads the PPM data stream coming off the pins into the module. With the module the speed and feeling is the same as a PCM system. Also the integrated X9303 gives you Model Match (model is linked to the model number in the tx so if you're not on the correct model it don't work) and Servo Sync (data stream is changed so servos on the same surface receive data at the same time: most noticeable on heli collective and elevators on GS models). So there you go! :-) Gordy **Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp0030002851) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Sailplane items For Sale
I am interested in buying the DLG boom. I assume they are from Denny or tailbooms.com. Let me know how you want to handle the exchange. Chris Adams Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Sailplane items For Sale From: marshall5686 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, April 06, 2008 7:41 pm To: soaring@airage.com Sailplane stuff for sale. Items are posted on Craigslist-Salt Lake City. Thanks for looking. Contact me if you have any questions, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Custom TD Competition Sailplane - Esprit by Jaro Muller http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/spo/589483011.html Falcon 880 Sailplane http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/spo/589475489.html Sailplane Winch http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/spo/589439720.html Airtronics Stylus - RC Radio - Glid Memory Cards, 2 Modules http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/sys/589452325.html 3 Power Slope Scale (PSS) Airplanes Gliders Fiberglass http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/spo/589466254.html RC Airplane Floats http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/tag/589402647.html BagLady wing bag http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/spo/593584781.html HLG Carbon Booms http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/spo/593582072.html -- marshall5686 marshall5686's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=127822 View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=845803 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Fixer upper Pike Perfect
Hey, That looks like DP's Old F3B plane from the finals in Sacramento, 6 or so years back. I thought he had it fixed on the field Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Fixer upper Pike Perfect From: Tom Koszuta [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, April 08, 2008 5:51 pm To: tony estep [EMAIL PROTECTED], Soaring@airage.com Tony, Hey, In that picture I think I see a goodnever mind. Tom Koszuta - Original Message - From: tony estep To: Soaring@airage.com Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Looking for a contest plane Here's a Pike Perfect, a little bit of a fixer-upper: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1806429 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: FW: Re: [RCSE] New Level V: ...Task! April Fools
Craig, Jim, Bob, It is nice to know that you can get someone, even the top guys, on a April Fool's Day! Somehow, I couldn't resist! ;-) Chris Original Message Subject: Re: FW: Re: [RCSE] New Level V: ...Task! April Fools From: Craig Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, April 01, 2008 9:51 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com soaring@airage.com Is it just me or did you all not notice the calender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Forwarded Message: -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] New Level V: ...Task! Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 04:28:17 + Gordy, Thank you for helping me tune up my Supra. Brian and I flew it today and it goes great! Congratulations on your level V flight! You have certainly fought the good fight to achieve all the requirements. You are definitely on my Good Guy List. Regards, Bob Brown -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm waiting for the actual documentation but it looks like Chris is going to be the first LSF member to achieve his LSF April Fools Task Win for 2008! Nice work Chris, I'm jealous! Gordy Minnesota today :-( In a message dated 4/1/2008 2:42:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: New Level V: Gordy Gets Final Flight for LSF Level 5 Congratulations to Gordy Stahl for finally accomplishing the unexpected. Gordy, flying his new heavy uranium-enriched Suprah, managed to put aside all those wearing the I Beat Gordy button to finally claim a place in the anals of the soaring community. Unwittingly, well maybe so, Gordy climbed on his beach tractors, braved the winds of hot air emanating from himself, to force his new Suprah down the 10 km course. Gordy, unaccustomed to the long duration, hooked up his new Kennedy Pacemaker battery, using the new Battery Under Long Life technologies (BULL) to extend his penetration qualities, and overcome the multiple shifts in wind direction, to complete the task . For those who have the I Beat Gordy button on prominent display on the flight boxes, shirts and jackets, don't fret, their history value will not diminish. Reports are coming in that the AMA has found out about his accomplishments and is asking Gordy to donate his new heavy Suprah to their building committee for incorporation as the cornerstone of a new basement facility for the storage of items from tornado damage. From this reporter's perspective, we will need to see what new things develop from the bowels of such great accomplishments. Way to GO GORDY!!! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format **Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15ncid=aolhom00030 1) From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: [RCSE] New Level V: ...Task! Date:Wed, 02 Apr 2008 04:28:17 + From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:Soaring@airage.com Subject:[RCSE] New Level V: ...Task! Date:Wed, 2 Apr 2008 01:46:35 + I'm waiting for the actual documentation but it looks like Chris is going to be the first LSF member to achieve his LSF April Fools Task Win for 2008! Nice work Chris, I'm jealous! Gordy Minnesota today :-( In a message dated 4/1/2008 2:42:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: NewLevel V: Gordy Gets Final Flight for LSF Level 5 Congratulationsto Gordy Stahl for finally accomplishing the unexpected. Gordy, flying hisnew heavy uranium-enriched Suprah, managed to put aside all those wearingthe I Beat Gordy button to finally claim a place in the anals of thesoaring community. Unwittingly, well maybe so, Gordy climbed on hisbeach tractors, braved the winds of hot air emanating from himself, toforce his new Suprah down the 10 km course. Gordy, unaccustomed to thelong duration, hooked up his new Kennedy Pacemaker battery, using the newBattery Under Long Life technologies (BULL) to extend his penetrationqualities, and overcome the multiple shifts in wind direction, to completethe task . For those who have the I Beat Gordy button on prominentdisplay on the flight boxes, shirts and jackets, don't fret, their historyvalue will not diminish. Reports are coming in that the AMA has foundout about his
[RCSE] New Level V: Gordy Gets Final Flight for LSF Level 5
New Level V: Gordy Gets Final Flight for LSF Level 5 Congratulations to Gordy Stahl for finally accomplishing the unexpected. Gordy, flying his new heavy uranium-enriched Suprah, managed to put aside all those wearing the I Beat Gordy button to finally claim a place in the anals of the soaring community. Unwittingly, well maybe so, Gordy climbed on his beach tractors, braved the winds of hot air emanating from himself, to force his new Suprah down the 10 km course. Gordy, unaccustomed to the long duration, hooked up his new Kennedy Pacemaker battery, using the new Battery Under Long Life technologies (BULL) to extend his penetration qualities, and overcome the multiple shifts in wind direction, to complete the task . For those who have the I Beat Gordy button on prominent display on the flight boxes, shirts and jackets, don't fret, their history value will not diminish. Reports are coming in that the AMA has found out about his accomplishments and is asking Gordy to donate his new heavy Suprah to their building committee for incorporation as the cornerstone of a new basement facility for the storage of items from tornado damage. From this reporter's perspective, we will need to see what new things develop from the bowels of such great accomplishments. Way to GO GORDY!!! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Stab mount and stab
Bud Elder make them. Bud Elder ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) I will forward an email under a separate thread to you. Chris Adams Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Stab mount and stab From: Buzz Averill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, March 31, 2008 11:37 am To: RCSE soaring@airage.com Anyone know of an after-market source for a stab and stab mount to fit on a Supra tailboom? I know Barry sells them but I'm hoping to find a less expensive source. I have broken two Supra stabs and one Supra stab mount while winch launching. Not every timebut it has happened twice. Buzz Averill RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Re: Hinge Tape
Burt, I used to work for a company that was associated with tapes. Try http://www.azcoat.com I have used some sample polyester films on my F3B (small) ship a while back, and on my Current DLG hinges. It is polyester, fairly thin, clear. I have not been disappointed. If they won't give you a sample, ping me and I'll send a sample as I have alot. You can then ask then for a quote. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Hinge Tape From: Burt Pickard-Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, March 27, 2008 3:31 pm To: soaring@airage.com http://www.hilaunch.com/ At 05:07 PM 3/27/2008, Phil Barnes wrote: - Original Message - From: Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I suggest the hinge tape sold by Don Richmond. It's good stuff, quite strong and adhesive. I'm sure that tape is great stuff, but is Don Bullet proof? I think the poster was asking for a bullet proof manufacturer :-) Phil I am looking for a bullet proof hinge tape manufacturer. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Burt Pickard-Richardson 710 Augusta Oak Park, IL 60302-1616 Home Phone 708 848 9266 Cell Phone 708 703 7290 In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] JR 9303 Flap Programming Question
I just got a 9303 for an incredible price, and have run into a wall trying to convert all my gliders over to it. I've followed this post as a guide from rcgroups: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347609 My problem is that I try adjusting the flaps in the flap rates and camber mix menus, but I don't see any change in the flaps as I move the various switches for the various flight modes. I'm trying to program a Berg 4l, berg 7 channel, and a jr700 rx. Is there something that I'm missing? I've tried to program this like I would my JR 6102, but this is an entirely different beast. FYI, I'm trying to program three DLGs, and a 3M Trio, as well as a couple of 2Ms. Thanks for the help, Chris Rose RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] test
test RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] covering
I just got a new color of Monokote its a Neon Yellow and thought it would be a great color for my Genie Pro's tail feathers I'm building. But the result was not what I wanted. Ive used the other opac colors from them and they shrank much better than this type. Also is there better covering out there you guys have tried that is more forgiving. I'd like some feed back if possible. Thanks Chris Hallquist PBSS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Seriously offended - A common occurrence
Hi Ira, Per the comments below from the rest of the posting gang, I have to also agree with them. Emails often are hard to read the way the author writes them. Likewise, if you post, like I have, you will get the same reply. You will be slapped down. Turn the other cheek, and realize we are all have a bit of idiot in us all. Heaven knows, everyone will tell us so. In general, you have to be thick skinned (as noted below), you have to learn to use you delete key, and you have to know that is it just water rolling off a turtle's back. In many cases, those who reply only see what they want to see and read, and have their ways set in stone. I, too, feel the same many times. What all this does is make you sit back and not reply. That is not to say that sitting back is good, but it does make you realize that flying is alot better than being an armchair pilot. Then againyou could switch to a Woody class to get your LSF V wins when you strike out in the Open class. Woodies are for Old Timers LOL. Chris Adams Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Seriously offended From: Ira Faberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, February 28, 2008 9:37 am To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Soaring@airage.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks guys. At least I am not alone in taking offense. It now remains to be seen how magnanimous a man Gordy is. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 9:58 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ira, Welcome to RCSE! Gordy Offends Everyone it's his job! Although I have to admit he gets to grow on you when you figure him out. LJ Oooh.. Now you can expect a private email from the G-dude himself correcting you of your ways. :) - Original Message - From: Ira Faberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring Soaring@airage.com, gordysoar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:48:13 -0700 Subject: [RCSE] Seriously offended Gordy- You said Come on you guys, get involved and share! and when I took your invitation to share, you call my carefully thought out work silly and wacky and claim it has nothing to do with reality? Your behavior is offensive to me. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Dedicated to Gordy!
I don't see a problem...Just hop on the Snowmobile and go trolling. Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Dedicated to Gordy! From: Chuck Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, February 13, 2008 9:32 am To: soaring@airage.com At 10:21 AM 2/13/2008, you wrote: I guess I don't understand the problems most people have with winter. Sure sunny weather is great but if its sunny all the time when do you build? Here in the PNW it was another great day. It rained all day so I got lots of building done before I headed out to the slope. It was fantastic. One of the best days I've had on the slope in a while. The seenery was beautiful, the conditions were near perfect with moderate winds and temps in the upper 20's. Tomorrow night I'm going back to the slope for some more turns. I just can't get enough of skiing. and you? But the ski boat has trouble with the ice flows. :) Chuck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Tree story, actually a helicopter
In another 1970's story, Rick Norwood, of the Soaring Union of Los Angles (SULA), launched a Javelin Open class ship and did an active zoom-type launch at the top. For those unaware of the Javelin series, these were rolled plywood fuselage R/E planes with straight dihedral wings and up-swept curved tips to help thermaling. The wings of these planes used a center mount with a single main wingpin and small alignment pins in the rear of the root airfoil. The wing then was held in place with rubber bands internally. Anyway, when the plane zoomed off the top the wing flexed and shifted and the alignment pin disengaged, and one wing panel flipped over (rotated) so that the airfoil was now inverted for the panel. The plane promptly went into a kind of flat spin. Application of rudder one way, slowed the spin and application of rudder the other way increased the spin rate. The plane looked OK until it caught a thermal in this spinning mode and we watched it climb out. Elevator did nothing. We started to chase it in cars and followed it nearly 3/4 of a mile as it disappeared into an industrial park. Catching up with we expected to see it in a re-kittable form, but to our surprise, it was sitting pretty, unharmed between two industrial warehouses. I guess the helicopter action was not like a spiral death to the ground. Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Tree story, actually a pipe From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, January 31, 2008 12:46 pm To: soaring@airage.com In the late 70's/early 80's at one of the early Visalia Fall Soaring Festivals at the high school site, Don Doe (past NCSL Champion) was flying a Paragon on yellow and white, a frequency that was also an emergency CHP channel. Suddenly during a nice flight well above launch height Don lost control of the plane. It came all the way down in a series of spirals and dives finally disappearing from sight when it dove into a large drainage ditch with a ten foot berm on both sides, and near a culvert under a road that bordered the field. Don started walking to retreive the werckage when suddenly to everyone's shock and awe the Paragon appeared in a near vertical climb ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD. Don regained control and landed the plane safely. Unbelievably, the plane had flown through the culvert (I remember that it was about 12' diameter) without hitting anything. Mike Clancy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
Tom, Larry, All: The Munich F3K German Open had entries starting 12/1/2007 per the spreadsheet. It was only this Monday that a note was sent by Phil Barnes telling us that there were 85 entries already and if you wanted to go, you needed to submit an app ASAP. The US/world frenzie started and luckily I was able to get in. I will have to say that DLG is more Competitor-friendly versus F3B/J events. I think that the simplicity of DLG with regard to launching, as well as MOM competition rounds, are some of the main reasons US DLG pilots are more interested. Additionally, flying areas are more available and two or more people can fly together. DLG is alot like whatparkflyers are for electrics. Personally, when I am at the local park flying my DLG I have many people come over to see it and wonder how I am getting it up so high. Electric parkflyer pilots often get jealous when I can fly for 2 hours while they have to sit around and wait for a charge and then buzz around for only 10 minutes. Think about it. Look at Visalia, for example and the 20 or more DLG pilots that fly after the contest, no waiting around. Do I see alot of pilots coming into soaring, yes. It's only that they are choosing DLG versus the social TD waiting contests. I agree with Tom that we need to play hardball and not do cushy contests. Like I have been doing for the IHLGF contests the past 5 years, I am going to try to take pictures of each plane and pilot and alot more when I attend the German Open. If I do not do well, I will at least inject myself with the design and flying enthusiasm they have over there. We need to share technology and flying skills, not have them softened by waiting around. I know I will be drinking alot of beer with those guys like we do here. Chris Adams Original Message Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format From: Tom Copp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, January 11, 2008 9:44 am To: Soaring@airage.com Yes, I see the same thing too. The Europeans make F3J and F3B the F1 of soaring and because they do they bring in the new guys. You will get your butt kicked when you start out and what do they do to help you? Nothing.its sink or swim. The best teacher I ever had was a good ass kicking! Getting old? Can't see? Tough, move over old man there are 50 new guys waiting to replace you. No one is complaining about buying a winch or model and in many cases it's more difficult over there to come up with Toy Money plus the cost to travel to a comp is expensive. Yes sure Europe is small but have you ever drove from Spain/France to Germany? Shoot the toll fees will exceed the cost of fuel (at 8.00+ a gallon!) yet contests are full and the parties are well worth the effort. The USA TD contest pilots are dieing. I mean literally dieing (RIP) no new blood. The writing has been on the wall for years.. Its time to read the wall. Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format A note in support of Tom's comments, I noticed that the Munich F3k Contest registration opened up last week. I was considering going over and was trying to organize it with some friends. The competition was full in 3 days 110 confirmed 15 on a back up list. I have seen this over and over in European Events. I have also noticed a younger crowd showing up. My Best regards Larry Wow lots of stuff here. In general contests outside the USA are well attended. Contests attendance inside the USA is diminishing. Why? Outside the USA they typically fly F3J or a local version of F3J with F3B winches that the pilots supply btw. They are strict about being on the line in time; they don't soften the task for anyone. They play hardball over there and their attendance is thriving. snip RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. After all, isn't that what it's about? Why not give bonus points for landing if they are within 2 seconds over the time. If they are short of 10 minutes then zero flight points. Isn't that what all the top experts do in each contest. If you can't make the time, what makes you think you are good enough to get landing points either? BTW, DLG contests do MOM all the time. The thought pattern is TOTALLY different in DLG contests. There is a set task, either you make it or you don't. The only thing I constantly hear is how many points did you DROP, not how many points did you achieve. This is not basketball, it is more like Golf. The course is rated and you know the task (par value) and you are being measured on what you can or cannot achieve. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
This is Match play, just like they do in FF. You either max the time, or you are out! It does not matter what time you set, just that it has to be maxed. If you want to add difficulty, then just increase the flight time 1 or 2 minutes per round. We did a type of this contest in DLG at Visalia in 2006. I was CD. I had an airhorn. Everyone launched, and when 10 seconds had passed, the horn blew, and every pilot had to do a loop, then the first pilots down were eliminated. Next I made them do a loop at 10 second, then another at 30 seconds. It went on. Would you believe it that we got up to 4 loops then wait 20 seconds and then 4 more loops. Scoring was obvious, you made it or you didn't. The last round was tough as pilots pulled out with about 4 inches to spare. Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Contest Format From: tony estep [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, January 10, 2008 2:16 pm To: soaring@airage.com Original message: ...short of 10 minutes then zero flight points. Isn't that what all the top experts do in each contest. If you can't make the time, what makes you think you are good enough to get landing points either? === Which suggests a slight variation on the 10-9-8 etc. scheme: Only the maxers or round-winners get to go on to the next round -- everybody else is eliminated. That would really move things along. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
Nope, I MEAN no flight points because you never made the 10 minutes to be able to qualify for any sort of landing. Well..I guess it eliminated landing points too. Brutal! Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format From: Jeff Steifel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, January 10, 2008 2:23 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: RCSE (E-mail) soaring@airage.com I think you meant zero the landing points, not the flight points. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. After all, isn't that what it's about? Why not give bonus points for landing if they are within 2 seconds over the time. If they are short of 10 minutes then zero flight points. Isn't that what all the top experts do in each contest. If you can't make the time, what makes you think you are good enough to get landing points either? BTW, DLG contests do MOM all the time. The thought pattern is TOTALLY different in DLG contests. There is a set task, either you make it or you don't. The only thing I constantly hear is how many points did you DROP, not how many points did you achieve. This is not basketball, it is more like Golf. The course is rated and you know the task (par value) and you are being measured on what you can or cannot achieve. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Best 2 Meter for NATS
Once again, the winch requirement excludes the development of new 2M designs and defaults the designs to the main requirement that they only be able to haul the lines up. This requirement only favors those planes that are commercially built or those that have so much wing area and airfoil thickness that we get back into the old design arguments of years past. One of these days a plane will be able to take into account other design factors besides this limited one. IMHO Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Best 2 Meter for NATS From: Barry Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, January 04, 2008 6:00 am To: RCSE soaring@airage.com Gentleman, Go with the winner... a Organic 2M. Craig Greening won 2007 NATS flying the Organic 2M. Regards, Barry Kennedy Composites www.kennedycomposites.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Brain Fart : Definitely a FART
I can't believe that the response of Gordy's is a Joke or What? Hey Gordy, you propose that we get rid of Winch altogether. WOW, what a novel Idea! You design a plane that you can grab by a wingtip and throw with all your might. Gee...maybe you can do some running to get more speed up and then twist around like a ballet dancer and then let go of the plane. I know, I know, it's been years since your Arther Murray dancing lessons were completed and you are a bit rusty. But heck, it gets you out of the house. And can anyone thermal out with a plane after throwing it Hey, I heard of this guys who went to Japan and convinced them that he should be able to use his big TD plane, I think it was a Icon, and throw it. There were guys there who were doing something like you suggest, that is, taking a smaller plane and throwing it. In fact, I think they developed tasks that were challenging for them, but maybe not for your expertise. It's always great to hear the ideas of experts and LSF Level V aspirants like yourself when they come up with these new flying classes and tasks. Keep the ideas coming! Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Brain Fart or Challenge? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, January 04, 2008 10:23 am To: Soaring@airage.com Wow Jack , You are really on to it with this shortening lines thing ! I sat around for quite a few minutes before I thought of something even dumber ...but I managed! :-) I'm thinking with us getting older and the cost of fuel to lug winches around, and if its really about pilot skill and thermal reading/working...lets just hand toss the damn things and call for 20min tasks. We'd be able to get in about 40 rounds per day so that would make contests that much more attractive to attend, and of course set up would be minimal, also no hassles with changing turnarounds for wind direction, and those mysterious bastards who you all seem to know are out there who take advantage of line breaks and pop offs, well 'they' will be out of luck with no lines to break and no pop offs. Setting up the models will be easier because there will be no need to agonize over tow hook placement, elevator comps or camber switch programming. Those of you who haven't figured out how to program your JR radios so that there's no need to flip a switch to make the throttle stick camber or landing lever in mid flight, again no worries, not needed any more. Dang it makes so much sense, so logical, can't figure out why you guys didn't think of this sooner! That new 150 SupraDurpraIcon will devour the soaring scene! I mean it will have to have a glide advantage and no worries about clogging up contests with broken line concerns. (and will provide fodder to RC Groups about it having an unfair advantage demanding that owners leave its tips off). 300'? I laugh! Lets show 'those' guys at contest that us real men want a true soaring eventlets get rid of winches all together! What do you think Chicago? You guys seem to have been sitting around thinking up good ideas :-) Shorten the lines and you can bet the line will get shorter. Gordy :-) In a message dated 1/4/2008 10:46:19 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree with you Jack, but I think the distance to the turnaround should be even shorter, maybe 300ft Buzz Averill On Jan 1, 2008, at 8:48 PM, schrederman wrote: Well I posted this under Best wishes for 2008... but not too many looked at it... So here goes :eek: For this year, I'd like to issue a challenge to the soaring community. For 30 years, we've been launching as high as possible, trying to stay aloft for 10 minutes, and coming down on a spot, carrying a skeg that many times arrests on the line rather than the ground. That gets old... in fact it got old a long time ago... My challenge is to standardize the American TD winch, including line strength, and to do away with landing skegs. I also think the turnaround should be no more than 600' from the launch point. Let's put some challenge back into this. Flame suit ON! Jack (Darth) Womack -- schrederman --- - schrederman's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=13218 View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794683 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only
[RCSE] RE: Icon 2: Lines in a Twist
This is all Bogus, What is everyone getting their lines in a Twist? No where does it say that a CD must provide launching mechanisms for specific plane designs. What is the problem??? A CD provides a launch method that can launch all planes. Just because the same launching system cannot get 2Meter planes launched high is not his problem. The Airbus is only the Airbus because GE, or whomever, makes a engine that can power the plane. So what if the little planes cannot travel across the great herring pond as efficiently as the big ones. Heck, if the line breaks, just get bigger lines or stronger lines. In Fishing they use wire lines to met the stronger requirements. What's the problem here, can't the old Icon 1 or the Sharon , or perhaps the High End have better winches for them to use? You can also use clothesline rope if you want. There is nothing in any rule book that says lighter lines need be provided. So, buck it up and get a better launching plane. Get rid of that old NOS or woodie class and come into the REAL world. I am sick of everyone thinking that we have to cater to the lighter planes. If the Icon 1 can't launch on the new winches, then get off your tails and get a plane that can launch. This is so bogus to hear everyone complain. Look at all the aerodynamic and composite advancements, and use them. Duu. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Icon 2 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, December 20, 2007 9:08 am To: soaring@airage.com In a message dated 12/20/2007 8:48:45 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm sure this will be a very dynamic plane and competitive with the Euro models. My concern is the launching equipment. With the current crop of moldies, line breaks and winch bogging and ultimate failure are becoming more prevelant. Heavy enough line for these new super ships, will be a burden for the lighter planes. Yes, I've CD'd lots of contests and a few big ones. We've tried some heavy line and it is great for the heavier planes but the lighter planes and 2 meters have a helluva time overcoming the line drag and weight. Where do we draw the line? Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ It could be that the wing area is not more than the Sharon, just a higher aspect ratio, and that it won't generate more lift, but will just have less drag and be more efficient. Bill Wingstedt **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Icon 2
Why not just get rid of the pulley system and go to a single man tow? Or maybe, the pilot should run to launch the plane like a kite`while the plane is on autopilot??? Just creative suggestions! Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Icon 2 From: Mike Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, December 20, 2007 9:45 am To: tony estep [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Go to a weaker winch motor. If the winch motor can't break the line, then the motor stops turning. For anyone who has used a F3b winch, you know what happens. The F3b winch motors will only draw roughly 500 Amps stalled while a Ford winch will go to 1000 amps or more. Then you live with the lower input power. tony estep wrote: The 2-man tow setup puts a practical limit on F3J, but apparently that limit is not fully compatible with the standard U.S. winch setup; that is, it seems that the F3J scheme can launch bigger planes than our typical winches like to handle. One imagines a nightmare scenario where the planes keep getting bigger, and eventually as clubs need to replace their launch gear, they'll turn to super-power Injoy or similar winches, and the cycle will repeat, and finally we'll be flying models 40% of full-scale like the gas-power boys. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] 2008 Nats Schedule
Oh Mighty Carnac: Do not knock DLG just because you do not fly it! CA Original Message Subject: [RCSE] 2008 Nats Schedule From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, December 11, 2007 1:19 pm To: soaring@airage.com No Tom (B), its shoving RES (HL on Steroids) down the throats of anyone that cares to fly any/all of the other TD events. Great for Chuck, crappy for those that don't play hyper-HL. Seems to me that RES should follow UNL in this schedule, so the traditional multi-function events flow one after the other. JT Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:09:37 -0500 From: TJB [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE Soaring Exchange Soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] 2008 Nats Dates/Schedule (R/C Soaring R/C Electric) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interesting arrangement. Making those NOS guys fly two meter : ) T - Original Message - From: Tom Kallevang [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE Soaring Exchange Soaring@airage.com; Balsa Sailplanes Exchange [EMAIL PROTECTED]; USA_FAI_Soaring Exchange [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:43 AM Subject: [RCSE] 2008 Nats Dates/Schedule (R/C Soaring R/C Electric) To all: 2008 Nats forms should be available on the AMA site shortly after January 1, 2008. Soaring Dates are: Sun July 27: NOS on Stage Center and HLG on the 600x600 Mon-Tue July 28-29:2Meter Wed July 30: RES Thu-Fri July 31-Aug 1: Unlimited Sat-Sun Aug 2-3: XC on Stage Center and F3B on the 600x600 Electric Nats Dates: Monday Aug 4: X5J Extreme Tuesday Aug 5: 1/2A LMR Sailplane Wednesday Aug 6: A LMR Sailplane Thursday Aug 7: B LMR Sailplane NEAC Sport Sailplane and 1/2A Texaco will be held as after hours events. LSF website will be updated shortly. Tom Kallevang Wheeling, IL LSF President Webmaster LSF #303 Level V #103 AMA L292 SOAR (Chicago) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] 2008 Nats Schedule
Gee Denny, I thought winter started with the Gordy Equinox and the changing of the moons? BTW, When is the official starting weekend of Gordy Bashing Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] 2008 Nats Schedule From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, December 11, 2007 2:07 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com Thus we have the official beginning of winter on RCSE Denny Maize www.polecataero.com 717-789-0146 -Original Message- From: John Diniz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill's Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]; soaring@airage.com Sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 5:00 pm Subject: RE: [RCSE] 2008 Nats Schedule Again this Nat's thing is being held in the MID-WEST!!! Gosh Dernnit I ain't gonna fly it until it's on the west coast. You know some of the best flyers are on the west coast so it really isn't a true National Championship unless it's on the west coast. Wait.. I live 3 hrs from the Nat's... Please disregard my previous statement. JD -Original Message- From: Bill's Email [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 3:55 PM To: soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] 2008 Nats Schedule What?? No Open Scale hand launch cross country?? Kurt Zimmerman wrote: Gives us entertainment for the up and coming year :-) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
FW: [RCSE] DLGs = Bang for the Buck, NO WAY; Benchmarks- Get Real.
Too bad Brian Smith does not live over here, he could fly my planes for me while I drink beer! Cheers!!! Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:31:10 -0600 To: soaring@airage.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [RCSE] DLGs = Bang for the Buck, NO WAY; Benchmarks- Get Real. That is about how long it takes me to get my 132 inch span RES model ready to fly after I get to the field. The model fits in my van ready to fly except that the outer wing panels have to be plugged in and taped on. The model was designed with a 3 piece wing with a 48 inch center wing that will fit in my van when bolted to the fuselage. If someone has a winch set up, it takes me longer that that to get from my van to the winch. If Brian Smith is there, he often has my model assembled by the time I get out of the van. :) Chuck At 01:29 AM 12/3/2007, you wrote: Everybody has good points but listen to this. I place my 2 or 3 DLG's in the back of my minivan, assembled and ready to fly. The one I want to fly first is charging as I drive to the field. I get to the field, put my card on the board and am flying 180 seconds later. Admitedly, sometimes there is very little low level lift, but other than that, Beat that! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format _ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i’m Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM
RE: [RCSE] DLGs = Bang for the Buck, NO WAY; Benchmarks- Get Real.
Everybody has good points but listen to this. I place my 2 or 3 DLG's in the back of my minivan, assembled and ready to fly. The one I want to fly first is charging as I drive to the field. I get to the field, put my card on the board and am flying 180 seconds later. Admitedly, sometimes there is very little low level lift, but other than that, Beat that! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] DLGs = Bang for the Buck, NO WAY; Benchmarks- Get Real. Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 19:22:18 + I have to disagree with Buzz regarding DLG being the best value. I agree that DLG has made HL more accessible to all pilots due it the ergonomics of launching them. But value, for that lets take a step back and look at it from a distance. When evaluated analytically, DLG is absolutely the worst value in soaring today. Lets take the recent example of the $1000 Vandal (all up ready to fly) that was snapped up off of RCSE recently. For simplicity assume that the plane weighs 10 oz all up. A simple calculation yields $100/oz. Now lets take a Supra at $2000 (all up: plane plus radio gear) at 65 oz. Same simple calculation yields $31/oz. OK, next up on the list is an SBXC at $2500 (all up, plane plus radio plus vario) at 176 oz. Crank, crank, the calculator tells me $14.25/oz. Getting the drift here? Now lets take Sagitta 900 at $350 (kit plus gear) weighing 40 oz. Push the little beads on the abacus and what comes out: $8.75/oz. Disclaimer- this doesn't assign any value for building, enjoying, etc. Then again, nobody really makes money out of the hobby, we all do it for fun, no? So, what is really more cost effective, soaring gold (DLG), or history (Sagitta)? On a kind of related topic, I've been having a great laugh about all this benchmark garbage. What a bunch of subjective tripe. All I really see is reminiscing about what gets an individual's attention and represents progress to them. I've been in the technology business for 40 years, and if I've learned anything, true paradigms define themselves without any help. By their very nature, the direction that technology goes after the paradigm emerges will change because of the paradigm. As my buddy Bubba would say, Y'all have a ball getting yer undies twisted with this one. Jim Thomas RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format _ Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate. Join in. www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline
RE: [RCSE] First Euro Moldie to win a USA major
Gordy, Moldie does not mean that it had to have flap or ailerons. That is not what makes a moldie. The Cumulus, not Cirrus, had foam cores that were covered, pressed for a wing airfoil and washout, and the fuse was plastic molded. But that is still molded. Cirruses never had flaps. The German vellum plans had them withairlerons, and the poster paper type plans did nothave them with ailerons. LOL Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] First Euro Moldie to win a USA major From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, December 01, 2007 1:13 am To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Soaring@airage.com How about the first Euro moldie to win a USA major? Know what it was, who flew it and where it won? Pretty sure it was the first Euro moldie to have bottom hinged flaps too. I'd love to see a Cirrus with bottom hinged flaps :-). So does this mean, there was a bench mark event in rc soaring history and you guys didn't notice? Gordy **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Want a bench mark plane example??
SNIP How about the first Euro moldie to win a USA major? Know what it was, who flew it and where it won? Pretty sure it was the first Euro moldie to have bottom hinged flaps too. Here's a hint, it was produced by the maker of the current 2m, 3m and RES ships flying in the USA today.:-) Gordy SNIP Gordy, Nope...ding, ding, ding, ding, wrong answer for Jepordy! For that you need to go WAY back before your time! It was Dr. Barbara Henon, flying a molded, composite Graupner Cumulus, in an LSF tournament in 1973 (?) at Miles Square Park in Southern Calif. Yes, a woman in a man's sport. She was also president of the LSF. The Model fits all the requirements for moldies and composites of today. Think about it. LOLOLOL Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] RE: Benchmarks? RADS? Refinements? Designing?
Well Stated. Chris Original Message Subject: Benchmarks? RADS? Refinements? Designing? From: Harley Michaelis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, November 29, 2007 4:23 pm To: soaring@airage.com soaring@airage.com I'm sitting here with nothing to do while waiting on some supplies. I've been reading the current batch of messages and wondering how to make some meaningful contribution. A little history. . . I've been involved in modeling since age 6 when Lindbergh's flight to Paris got me inspired. When the big Depression hit shortly thereafter, money for discretionary spending became non-existent. For building materials, I cut up wood apple boxes, cedar shingles, fence posts, bamboo rakes, lumber yard scrap and cedar cigar boxes. Balsa? . .what was that? Glues were leftover paste and mucilage from school and oh yeah, Lepage's 48 Hour Iron Glue. Covering material was common tissue paper. I later discovered modeling tissue, banana oil, silk and aircraft dope to make free flight stuff. I never heard of a kit until I was in high school, but who had cash for those? Well, I did save my pennies for a year and once spent $3 for a rubber-powered cabin model kit. It had a folding prop and flew out of sight one day on a thermal. Bummer. My point is that to have a model, it was necessary to be resourceful and creative. I have since continually experimented and learned things, always doing original work. The joy and satisfaction of making new discoveries is as compelling as it ever was. After high school, college, the military, family and my then wife's resentment of models, I got sidetracked from modeling for 20 years.. I picked it up again in the mid-1960's after hearing about some guys in California slope soaring with accompaniment by eagles. RC was in its commercial beginnings. Knowing rudimentary design I started doing my own RC stuff and soon began offering construction articles to the magazines. With RC kits a rarity, these went over well and all total some 17 original design construction articles were published. Some of you may remember the older ones such as the Duoflex, Tri-Belle, Miskeet, Hi-Pro, Mod-Pod, Spirit of Freedom, Atrix, Keetah, Buzzbat, Jouster, etc. All were different with many innovations. Modeler-builders built these ships from scratch. Other modeler-designers contributed to the magazines and ideas freely flowed through the pages. I see Dodgson Designs often mentioned with affection. I attended many a contest where virtually all would have one. I'd have an unkitted original.By virtue of superior numbers, whether Dodgson or other kits, kitted designs became prominent in competition circles. Well, sure. They are what was being flown the most and by capable fliers. After a season ended up here in the NWSS, Bob would run ads pointing out that our Season Champ flew some Dodgson design, which was rightfully good publicity. An amusing instance took place in 1990. I was Season champ in both Open and 2M flying my Jouster, the predecessor to the big Genie and the 2M version. It did not go over well with Bob that I was Season Champ. Of course, had I been flying a Dodgson Design, it would have been just fine. BTW, I did build and fly a big Maestro a few times, but sold it, preferring my own stuff. As sailplane kits became abundant, guys went for them and things began to change. The magazines no longer wanted state-of-the-art scratch-builder construction articles. Capable designer-builders gave up and quit contributing. The magazines began dumbing down airframe development content. With the advent of the ARF, this trend has only been exacerbated. I see comments to the effect that only minor refinements have been offered to ARF designs, but nothing really new or different. I agree. Stagnation has taken over as the creative capabilities of those who used to be real builder-modelers have been left to wither away from lack of use. I may be one of very few who remains motivated to do original thinking about scratch-buildable airframe design. As ever more sophisticated ARF's have appeared, I keep finding ways to make my designs simpler, lighter, stronger, prettier, more practical and more capable. In case you haven't noticed, I do not offer airframes for sale. My thrust is to encourage and support whose who want to learn to scratch build sophisticated airframes that can compete with the ARFs. Build one of mine for starters and you will have acquired knowledge and techniques to design and build designs of your own. Go to my website http://genie.rchomepage.com. Different features? Read the file What's A Genie? Look at the pictures in the Gallery. Look at File 12 and get busy building a Smooth Genie Pro. Since mentioned about a month ago that Genie line plans could be viewed on line at my website, over 1600 new views have occurred. Interest
RE: [RCSE] Re: Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
Mark, I like your comments. Obviously, a Mirage would not compare to today's floaters, but it was designed more than 30 years ago. It might still give the current RES ships a bit of competiton. At the time, Blaine addressed both the lightness of structure as well as the strength of a thick one piece center section. What also can be noted is that the large wing was more transportable as a 3-piece wing. Please recall that Blaine also wrote a well received article about dihedral angles for the wings that have been often quoted by designers to this day. BTW, I have a few other pictures of the plane I used in Dave Thornburg's contest that is on your website. I still have the plane I used and was thinking of recovering it and flying it in nostalgia at Poway! Thermals, Chris Adams Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs From: Mark Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, November 30, 2007 11:33 am To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Soaring@airage.com History states that Mark Drela built a Mirage a few years back and liked it so much that he decided to build a modern version. Thus was born the Bubble Dancer. Of course you would fly a Bubble Dancer against a Mirage and feel confident you would win. It has 30 years head start in technology advancement. I would say both were benchmarks and they are both related. They both took the status quo and changed it to status not so quo. Mark MIller Isthmus Models - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:16:59 PM Subject: [RCSE] Re: Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs Afraid I must disagree with you about floaters. While I'll grant that the Mirage may have been a benchmark, I'd be willing to fly a good Bubble Dancer vs. you with a Mirage any day. (Not that I'd necessarily win, we all know it's the pilot, and I don't know you so you may fly a lot better than I do.) If it was a bit breezy and we had the same airframe weight I'd even spot you a few points. Actually, I think the Allegro Lite did some of it first, but the Bubble Dancer is a combination of full pedal strength with very light weight, balsa construction, low moment of inertia, and refined aerodynamics. I don't recall seeing that before the Allegro Lite. The Bubble Dancer turns very quickly for a 3 meter. My impression was that it did this quicker than the aileron jobs. I hadn't seen anything quite like it before. Certainly not a 3 meter that you could full pedal launch and also be comfortable doing a couple of circles from a hand launch. Watching Mark launch the Allegro Lite was surreal. Like playing a 33 at 45, or even 78, for those of you who remember vinyl. I don't know what the imitations fly like yet, though I hope to soon. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, I agree with your opinion. I read the threads and had to take a larger overview to what a benchmark actually means. In my opinion, Benchmark planes, means some plane to which other planes are compared to so that a noticeable advancement in performance, building, transport, and flying can be measured. They should be unique and contribute unique characteristics. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
Hi Mike, First of all, I presented my opinions as to what is a benchmark, and specifically stated my qualifications. They can differ from the thoughts of others, and on this exchange everyone had the ability to express their views. This is a philosophical discussion. Are you just trying to give me a rough time for my opinions?? LOLOLOL However, in regard to what my opinions are, I would love to express why I chose the examples that I did, and group together others. Let's take for example a few items. First, most designers attempt to take the best feature of each plane and try to merge it together into an overall better plane. Is this a real improvement per se? Perhaps it is. It is not in my benchmarks. Second, I believe that changing just the airfoil does not necessarily represent a benchmark. Mark Drela has done exceptional work which I admire, as have many other designers like JW, DP, many Europeans, among others. However, does using an airfoil and then modeling a new wing planform constitute a benchmark? My benchmarks were something that produced a significant trend. The planes themselves might not have survived because their features were rapidly incorporated into other models, but they were pioneers. I do not think the Supras or Onyx, or some of the others are just that much different (IMHO). With that said, I look the difference or similarities between the following planes: The Photon and the Ava: Hmmm, the AVA is just a scaled up Photon with a little more wing taper, dihedral, but it is of the same construction. There are others from the Eastern European manufacturers that have similar designs and structural features. The Super Gee I and the Supra: Hmmm, again the Supra is an enlarged Super Gee. It uses the same basic tailgroup, the same and beefier stab mount, light weight construction, specific wing planforms and airfoils. They seem alike, but does size matter when they are used for two separate events? We see designers using features that fit their specific requirements. Obviously, this is quite evident when MacCready built a large Microfilm indoor model because it performed the functions he required. Consider SpaceShip One, the shuttlecock wing feature is not much more than a dethermalizer for freeflight planes used for over 50 years. Thank goodness our modeling experiences go to good uses. But does that take away from the achievements of these great men? No. What I see is that they took what they knew, added their take and came up with a plane that performed the function they required. In our sport, the F3B/F3J planes are taking minor variations and trying to group them together. The variations are not major. The Sharons', Supras, Schpotdorkers, Milleniums, and many other composite ships are designed trying to optimize a specific task. We are eventually going to reach a point of diminishing returns. However, why do new planes come out, if not for their new aerodynamics? They come out routinely, in perhaps 9 month intervals, because of the market. People and pilots always want the latest and greatest, and pay for that. So IMHO, which I believe I can express, I am waiting for that significant improvement to come out. Is the improvement out there? I really hope so. It will become the benchmark. But is the Wright Flyer with wing warping any different than the dynamic wing warping using electrochemical induced composites that are currently being explored? The mechanics are different, but the aerodyamincs is the same. I wonder. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs From: Mike Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, November 29, 2007 5:41 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Fred Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED], RCSE soaring@airage.com Can you tell me what model the Supra is a refinement of? Wright flyer? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, I agree with your opinion. I read the threads and had to take a larger overview to what a benchmark actually means. In my opinion, Benchmark planes, means some plane to which other planes are compared to so that a noticeable advancement in performance, building, transport, and flying can be measured. They should be unique and contribute unique characteristics. With that said, the Onyz, or Sharon, or Supra, in fact nearly 99% of the planes on the market currently are really just refinements to existing designs, and really are not improvements. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe
[RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
design whose influences are seen in the Bird of Time. 15) JW Wing: Here is one of the first planes that permitted Dynamic Soaring to take hold. It permitted every DS pilot to home their skills prior to the current developments. OK, So you guys want to flame me for trying to set benchmarks. Personally, most of the planes we fly today are not too distinct, and certainly do not have any real improvements that make them better than any others. I would venture to characterize today's planes as Mutts, as in referring to the dog world. They are not purebred for their characteristics, and none of the planes really are a species that contributes new and unique characteristics. Think back, what plane really had something unique for the sport? Those, in my opinion, are the benchmarks, even though they way now be by the wayside. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Supra or Onyx JW?? From: Fred Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, November 28, 2007 11:48 pm To: RCSE soaring@airage.com I've got to quickly get closer to my toilet...I think I'm going to PUKE~ JW? Onyx? Benchmarks You gotta be kiddin' me. PUKE damn it! Weav Pat McCleave wrote: Brian, That could be said of about any model Joe flys then. I have watched him successfully HLG several different models out. One fairly heavy old beater looking thing he was flying several years ago in Tulsa, I saw him launch out several times in a row while shooting landing practice. Basically that anoits Joe as one of the Master Pilots and does not really say a whole lot about the plane. Don't get me wrong I think the Supra is one of best planes out there but I do not necessarily consider it the bench mark for all other designs. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS Brian Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Wurts who could fly any model he chooses, winning the Nats, coming to Tullahoma and hand launching into a sky out 95% of the time did not hurt the Supras anointing any too much.. YUP..Gordy knows!! (grin) Brian - Original Message - From: Joe Rodriguez To: soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Supra or Onyx JW?? What I find interesting why is the Supra considered the bench mark ? who is the soaring lord who made this decree? The Supra is the most documented sailplane since it's release to the public, with it's many issues depending what serial number you have. I can not agree that fits a standard for bench mark status. j - Original Message - From: Gordysoar To: soaring@airage.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:03 PM Subject: [RCSE] Re: Supra or Onyx JW?? -I went with the Onyx Jw because I thought it performed about like a Supra - Jack What I find interesting is that the Supra is considered the 'bench mark' and then there are the others...cheaper, but with some feature that makes them...better? worth more? almost as good for the cost? There are a lot of reasons to chose something other than the ships that are most proven and popluar, cost being one but in fact the cost is a few lawn mowings or driveway shovelings extra cash away from each other. The number one reason to get something other than the 'bench mark' ship? Because you want to try something else...it makes the hobby that much more fun for you. Second best reason...because IF you enter a contest flying the same ship as the majorityyou are left with one less excuse for not having done as well as they all did. Flying the same design as the group can make Man On Man more about the pilot. Maybe takes a little more guts :-) Third Reason...because you still believe that a certain model's foil or weight or span offers some advantage that will tip the time or landing points your way over the other poor saps stuck with that that 'bench mark' sailplane. Gordy -- Gordysoar Gordysoar's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=12801 View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772985 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.8
RE: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs
Ryan, Correct, The Uplink was Dick's plane. Fiberglass wings, T-Tail, Tip launched. The Upstart was a foamie by Dave Robelyn, I believe, manufactured for Ace, I think. Apologies to Dick. If someone want to see a pictire of the UpLink Click here: http://www.spieltek.com/images/DB-Uplink10.jpg Additionally, my list is not exclusive. There are many more planes that one can say contributed as benchmarks. Obviously we can go on. Thanks. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Supra or Onyx JW, these are Me-Too Designs From: rdwoebke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, November 29, 2007 10:53 am To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: other HLGs, in my opinion, just refinements. 8) The Upstart: The Upstart was the first DLG used in competition. Tip launching was first pioneered by Dick Barker and Harold Locke, in Seattle, and Dick Barker used the launching method to be able to keep up with the overhand throws of Joe Wurts and the rest. When EVERYONE else realized that they could use this method, most effectively by adding a gyro to their current planes, DLG became the only method for launching. Gyros are now gone by good DLG design and airfoiled tailgroups, but overall the UpStart was the benchmark. It did not last long. Hey Chris, I think you meant Uplink, not upstart... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Mountain Extreme Gliding - These Guys Take Big Risk
I think their next goal is to DS at Parker with radar gun. They can DS all afternoon on one jump! Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Mountain Etreme Gliding - These Gys Take Big Risk From: Scott [US], Millard C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, November 28, 2007 5:37 am To: soaring@airage.com Check out this video: http://www.biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=4262 M. Scott RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Benchmark Sailplanes
It flies like a Cirrus (in the 70's), and I still fly mine as it still is my benchmark. Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Benchmark Sailplanes From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, November 28, 2007 11:53 am To: soaring@airage.com When sitting around discussing a new or different sailplane design, often one will hear phrases like, It launches like a __. Or, It ranges out like a _. Or, It hangs like a _. Or even, It lands like a _. Once a sailplane is mentioned in one of those scenarios, that sailplane becomes a benchmark. Here is a possible list of benchmark sailplanes through the years: Sailaire Aquila Sagitta Falcon Thermal Eagle Icon Supra Super V RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Extending an Antenna
I want to put one of my DLG's antenna down the wing, and was wondering what wire I should use to accomplish this? Also, what wire can I use to extend a JR600 receiver as well, which is in my 3M? Thanks Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Mythbusters: Concrete Glider? We built Lead Sleds
Concrete is light! We used to build "Lead Sleds" for the RCM Trophy Races. We couldn't get the planes heavy enough for racing. That was in the days when Planes were raced liked NASCAR rather than the chicken time trials where it is like slalom ski racing. And yes, Gordy, I knew a Level V who broke his wrist trying to stophis lead sled trophy racer, in fact, I beleive he was #1. The only problems we had were getting the planes launched, never much of a lift issue. ChrisBTW Gordy "Real Men Know Thermals!" Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Mythbusters: Concrete Glider -- the result]From: Martin Usher [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Mon, November 13, 2006 9:01 pmTo: "soaring@airage.com" soaring@airage.comThere is already a good bit of chatter about it already:http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9401967776 (Ben Wilson)Interesting reference, disappointing threads. Only one thread addedanything to the discussion (IMO)http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9401967776/m/8751951358To me the 'concrete' bit was unimportant. The designs were 19th century(Cayley?) so they were unlikely to perform that well even if they weremade of appropriate materials.I'm pretty sure I could get a slope glider to work with a concrete wingbut the big question would be "Why?" -- both heavy and fragile (madethin to keep the weight down using a brittle material -- not even properconcrete (no aggregate)). Papier mache with a small amount of cementbinder, OTOH, may be just the job..h... (don't laugh --people used to make slope wings from foam cores and Christmas wrappingpaper, apparently the result is very strong).Martin UsherRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] stuck on mandrel
Tony: When I make these type of ballast holders, I do the following: I use 4 mil polyethylene painter's dropcloth. I cut a piece that will make 2 or so wraps around the dowel. I thake separate piece of plastic, lay out the Fiberglass, add resin, squeegee off the excess, and carefull wrap it around the mandrel. Vac bag and let cure. Afterwards I can plea the plasctic apart and you basically have a rolled piece of fiberglass. Then I place this around whatever I will be using as ballast, and CA closed, or even epoxy closed. If you wrap plactic around the ballast, I find that the plastic will permit the madrel to slip out. It all depends on how much play you want around the ballast. Good Luck Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] stuck on mandrelFrom: tony estep [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Tue, November 14, 2006 12:19 pmTo: soaring@airage.comCc: MVSA MVSA [EMAIL PROTECTED] I needed a fiberglass ballast tube, 1/2" i.d. x 18" long. I rolled some mylar around a 1/2" dowel and fiberglassed it -- it came out looking great. However, I can't get the doggone thing off the mylar. I can get the mylar off the dowel, but can't get any farther. Next time, more wax on mylar. But can anybody tell me if I can save this one, or do I have to throw it away and try again? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] stuck on mandrel
Tony: When I make these type of ballast holders, I do the following: I use 4 mil polyethylene painter's dropcloth. I cut a piece that will make 2 or so wraps around the dowel. I thake separate piece of plastic, lay out the Fiberglass, add resin, squeegee off the excess, and carefull wrap it around the mandrel. Vac bag and let cure. Afterwards I can plea the plasctic apart and you basically have a rolled piece of fiberglass. Then I place this around whatever I will be using as ballast, and CA closed, or even epoxy closed. If you wrap plactic around the ballast, I find that the plastic will permit the madrel to slip out. It all depends on how much play you want around the ballast. Good Luck Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] stuck on mandrelFrom: tony estep [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Tue, November 14, 2006 12:19 pmTo: soaring@airage.comCc: MVSA MVSA [EMAIL PROTECTED] I needed a fiberglass ballast tube, 1/2" i.d. x 18" long. I rolled some mylar around a 1/2" dowel and fiberglassed it -- it came out looking great. However, I can't get the doggone thing off the mylar. I can get the mylar off the dowel, but can't get any farther. Next time, more wax on mylar. But can anybody tell me if I can save this one, or do I have to throw it away and try again? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] I Beat Gordy Buttons will be around a long time
After all the hype I keep hearing regarding Gordy's attempts to get Level 5, I have to provide him with a few insights: 1) You can have any number of contests, as long as they exceed 20 people, to make the points for the level. Thus, with all the contests Gordy has attempted to win at, surely he has enough for all levels in Total. 2) Gordy, you have to learn how to fly man to even get to level 5! 3) A careful choice of airplanes and design will get you much farther than you are getting now, will all those wanting to get Buttons! 4) You have to avoid the Shotgun and attrition approach to getting the Contest win. You have to practice, practice, practice. I would imagine you have had enough of that through all the contest travels, but really now 5) You do know that it might be easier to set a F3* record attempt, or perhaps an AMA record to get your win, they are accepted. Try for one of those Maynard Hill records, just do it with a glider! 6) With all those great planes on the market, getting a win should be very easy! You can open your eyes while you land. 7) You might wait a few years more and then enter the "Senior" class at Visalia or the like, when there will be more of us there, if you think you can beat us with our canes. 8) Have you ever thought of the Rudder Elevator woody class??? Wood is still stuff! Besides, you only have to learn how to use the "right stick". 9) I think we should get a new T-shirt ready for Gordy that says " I have been to 50 acceptable Level 5 qualifying contests, and all I got is this lousy T-Shirt!" 10) Don't try DLG, it is way over your head. 11) Has anyone told him that his thermal, slope and cross country flights expire after 50 contests? Now I just wonder what those Buttons look like? Can someone out there please post a closeup??? I have my own ideas for a button! Keep working, I know of many who have been to as many contests as you! Thermals, Chris Adams Original Message Subject: [RCSE] "I Beat Gordy - Tangerine 06" ButtonsIF"Huntsville, Tullahom...From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Mon, November 06, 2006 7:48 pmTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com Do I get a button if I beat Gordy in a round? or does it have to be the whole contest?I sure would like to get me one of them "I Beat Gordy Buttons" :-)Raed (Orlando Buzzard) The price has gone up on those buttons, its got to be a 20+ man contest to qualify...I'm on the LSF5 trail :-)BUT you can feel free to dance around me going "nah nah, nah-nah, nah!" should that happen :-)So be warned, I'm not planning on making those buttons easy to earn til I get those dang contest points out of the way :) See you in a couple of weeks! Gordy PS what are you bringing to fly? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] 2M Pulsar for sale
2Meter Pulsar for Sale Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (off exchange) View plane and details at : http://www.spieltek.com/Pulsar2M.htm Includes RTF Plane, 2 DS 60 servos in fuselage for R/E, 4 HS-55 servos in wings, (No RX or Battery) $400 plus SH Thanks for the bandwidth, Chris Adams RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] lithium AA bateries
I has to do with design of the cell chemistry, and obviously in addition to manufacturing, current output, recharging, among other things. Take a look at the Li-Fe versus Li - ion chemistry at http://www.powerstream.com/BatteryFAQ.html Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] lithium AA bateriesFrom: "Robert Samuels" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Fri, October 27, 2006 10:39 amTo: soaring@airage.comI just bought some lithium AA bateries for use in my digital camera. They are 1.5 volt cells. I don't understand how they can be 1.5 volts when lithiums are 3 volts. Can anyone explain it to me?Robert Samuels ... St. Louis_Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp007001msn/direct/01/?href="">RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] EverReady's Answer to the Lithium 1.5 V Cell Question
In proper terms, the Lithium ion, Li+, is chelated by the "Organic" compounds. Lithium disulfide and Lithium Sulfide are properly termed "Inorganic" unless you are from a different planet with alternate element based Life forms (LOL). As mentioned below, the propylene carbonate, dioxane, and dimethoxyethane are really carriers and do not themselves have a charge. In theory, these compounds would not be electrolytes because they themselves are not charged. They may be polar, and that characteristic permits them to solubilize polar compunds as well as charged ions. The electrodes, e.g. carbon or other related metals are just the location where electrons are given up or accepted by the oxidation or reduction reactions. It is the combinatin oxidation and reduction reaction that gives a cell it's overall potential (voltage). In order for Lithium to give up it's electrons the Fe (iron) must accept the electron. Only when all the FeS2 is used up, or likewise all the Li available releases the electrons will the cell reaction hit an equilibrium and the battery be "Used Up". Rechargingis thereverse the reaction, however due to the content of the cell components, reversal may not be the reverse of the electricity generating process. Batteries are made with the electrolytes as a "Paste" for a variety of reasons, and ion diffusion in the paste is controlled by temperature and hence time. That is why if you leave a battery for a while after discharge it seems to come to life again, but not for long. The solvents, dioxane, propylen carbonate and dimethoxyethane are used for their low toxicity and solubility for dispersion, in water if you are an environmental person. BTW, water, which we say is an electrolyte is both a polar as well as producesions. Within water as a solvent, water dissociates into solublized (H2O solvent) H+ (protons, an acid) and OH- ions (hydroxide base) to a large enough extent to conduct electricity. If the reader will consult the URL for Li polymer descriptions, they will see the the 3.0+ volt reduction potentials. As an aside, what we really should be using is room temperature molten salt batteries. Their elements and reactions are so flamable that they are extremely dangerous. However, due to their extremely high energy density, as well as their flamablilty and explosive nature, they are used in relatively short duration electronic applications, i. e. cruise missles. When they explode the battery itself becomes part of the explosive and flamable destructive power. If you think the Li polymer batteries we have explode, you should see these electrolytes go up when exposed to air. Grins! Chris SNIP from my previous post URIThe Lithium-Iron chemistry deserves a separate section because it is one of a handful of lithium metal systems that have a 1.5 volt output (others are lithium/lead bismuthate, lithium/bismuth trioxide, lithium/copper oxide, and lithium/copper sulfide). Recently consumer cells that use the Li/Fe have reached the market, including the Energizer. These have advantage of having the same voltage as alkaline batteries with much more energy storage capacity, so they are called "voltage compatible" lithiums. They are not rechargeable. They have about 2.5 times the capacity of an alkaline battery of the same size, but only under high current discharge conditions (digital cameras, flashlights, motor driven toys, etc.). For small currents they don't have any advantage. Another advantage is the low self-discharge rate10 years storage is quoted by the manufacturer. The discharge reactions are: Type Reaction Nominal Voltage Range FeS2 Version 2 FeS2 + 4 Li Fe + 2Li2S 1.6 Volts 1.6-1.4 V FeS Version FeS + 2Li Fe + Li2S 1.5 Volts 1.5-1.2 VBoth Iron sulfide and Iron disulfide are used, the FeS2 is used in the Energizer. Electrolytes are organic materials such as propylene carbonate, dioxolane and dimethoxyelthane Original Message Subject: [RCSE] EverReady's Answer to the Lithium 1.5 V Cell QuestionFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Fri, October 27, 2006 2:05 pmTo: soaring@airage.com To confirm my earlier post that lithium was probably a component of the electrolyte and not truly a controlling element of the electrochemical reaction (which determines voltage), I contacted EverReady's help line. They confirmed that the lithium in their AA batteries was part of an "organic lithium based electrolyte, specifically lithium disulfide". There you have it, it is part of the electrolyte, not electrode, thus the conventional electrodes determine the 1.5 V per cell, and the electrolyte just allows the electrodes to last much longer than conventional (more corrosive) electrolytes before it wears out. As a side note, I have used the lithium AA's in a scanner I use for my XC vario. Those batteries clearly outlived anything else I have put in the scanner, by an (estimated) 10 x lifetime of an alkaline. Well worth t
RE: [RCSE] EverReady's Answer to the Lithium 1.5 V Cell Question
John, What?? Are you diabetic? It's called "recharging", Sirius(ly) ;-) Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] EverReady's Answer to the Lithium 1.5 V CellQuestionFrom: John Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Fri, October 27, 2006 3:31 pmTo: Chris Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED], Soaring List soaring@airage.comCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Chris and Jim,Will you two please cover the Calvin Cycle next? I sat in on my daughter'sAP Biology class and I swear out of 20 questions on a pre test I got 1right. Humbling experience when your kids shoot way ahead of your knowledgelevel.Of course she knows very little about downwind turns with a Skeeter.JE--Erickson ArchitectsJohn R. Erickson, AIA From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:44:09 -0700 To: soaring@airage.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [RCSE] EverReady's Answer to the Lithium 1.5 V Cell Question In proper terms, the Lithium ion, Li+, is chelated by the "Organic" compounds. Lithium disulfide and Lithium Sulfide are properly termed "Inorganic" unless you are from a different planet with alternate element based Life forms (LOL). As mentioned below, the propylene carbonate, dioxane, and dimethoxyethane are really carriers and do not themselves have a charge. In theory, these compounds would not be electrolytes because they themselves are not charged. They may be polar, and that characteristic permits them to solubilize polar compunds as well as charged ions. The electrodes, e.g. carbon or other related metals are just the location where electrons are given up or accepted by the oxidation or reduction reactions. It is the combinatin oxidation and reduction reaction that gives a cell it's overall potential (voltage). In order for Lithium to give up it's electrons the Fe (iron) must accept the electron. Only when all the FeS2 is used up, or likewise all the Li available releases the electrons will the cell reaction hit an equilibrium and the battery be "Used Up". Recharging is the reverse the reaction, however due to the content of the cell components, reversal may not be the reverse of the electricity generating process. Batteries are made with the electrolytes as a "Paste" for a variety of reasons, and ion diffusion in the paste is controlled by temperature and hence time. That is why if you leave a battery for a while after discharge it seems to come to life again, but not for long. The solvents, dioxane, propylen carbonate and dimethoxyethane are used for their low toxicity and solubility for dispersion, in water if you are an environmental person. BTW, water, which we say is an electrolyte is both a polar as well as produces ions. Within water as a solvent, water dissociates into solublized (H2O solvent) H+ (protons, an acid) and OH- ions (hydroxide base) to a large enough extent to conduct electricity. If the reader will consult the URL for Li polymer descriptions, they will see the the 3.0+ volt reduction potentials. As an aside, what we really should be using is room temperature molten salt batteries. Their elements and reactions are so flamable that they are extremely dangerous. However, due to their extremely high energy density, as well as their flamablilty and explosive nature, they are used in relatively short duration electronic applications, i. e. cruise missles. When they explode the battery itself becomes part of the explosive and flamable destructive power. If you think the Li polymer batteries we have explode, you should see these electrolytes go up when exposed to air. Grins! ChrisSNIP from my previous post URI The Lithium-Iron chemistry deserves a separate section because it is one of a handful of lithium metal systems that have a 1.5 volt output (others are lithium/lead bismuthate, lithium/bismuth trioxide, lithium/copper oxide, and lithium/copper sulfide). Recently consumer cells that use the Li/Fe have reached the market, including the Energizer. These have advantage of having the same voltage as alkaline batteries with much more energy storage capacity, so they are called "voltage compatible" lithiums. They are not rechargeable. They have about 2.5 times the capacity of an alkaline battery of the same size, but only under high current discharge conditions (digital cameras, flashlights, motor driven toys, etc.). For small currents they don't have any advantage. Another advantage is the low self-discharge rate10 years storage is quoted by the manufacturer. The discharge reactions are: Type Reaction Nominal Voltage Range FeS2 Version 2 FeS2 + 4 Li Fe + 2Li2S 1.6 Volts 1.6-1.4 V FeS Version FeS + 2Li Fe + Li2S 1.5 Volts 1.5-1.2 VBoth Iron sulfide and Iron disulfide are used, the FeS2 is used in the Energizer. Electrolytes are organic materials such as propylene carbonate, dioxolane and dimethoxyelthane Original Message Subject: [RCSE] EverReady's Answer to the Lithium 1.5 V Cell Question From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, Oc
RE: [RCSE] Re: Blah Blah Blah
Nah, They are blue. He is a quart (liter) low. Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Re: Blah Blah BlahFrom: schrederman [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Sat, October 21, 2006 8:13 amTo: soaring@airage.comAren't Gordy's eyes brown... reportedly because he's full of somethingor another... but I heard something other than BBQ.Someone finally got him to fly RES and he seems to like it!Jack Womack-- schredermanschrederman's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=13218View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585938RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Stopwatch Recommendation
Having been at the IHLGF 5 years, I took a specific look at all the stopwatches as well as timing methodssince my original CD. I have one of the Robotics, and unless you are always using all the functions, the best function I have used is clear to wipe all the times out of the Memory. Easily done in the "Heat of Battle". As for ease of use, the Sieko (originally the Lorus) has been the best all arouind watch. It switches between count down and count up, and mimics the old non-digital stopwatches. I still like my old 30 year old hand watch, you can switch between count up and count down at a glance, i. e. no buttons! LOL As for IHLGF or related DLG competions, the best set up I have seen is with 3 stopwatches on the clipboard. The main one, countdown, is set to 10 seconds longer than the event window. You start it during the countdown to the start and it will give you the remaining window time at a glance. This is great if you have a flight which will end, or could, at the buzzer. The second 2 watches alternate. This gives the timer full control on recording of times, counting the number of flights, knowing the longest flights, and knowing if you should take another launch. When the pilot launches, the first watch is started. When he lands, it stops, the timer switches to the next watch, and starts it on the 1.5 second launch. The timer can now write down the time at leasure, for knowing if you should launch again, clear it and have it ready for the next relight. All this repeats. If you have the watches velcro-ed or clipped to the clipboard, you can remove them between rounds. Also, contestants laminate a copy of the event order on the clipboard. So this helps to remind you of what the next event, round will be, if you do not look at the scorecards. Go with the Seiko (lorus) and you will not be disappointed and have to learn the workings of the Robotics each time. The KISS priciple works well here. Someone want to by my Robotics Chris Adams LSF 348 LvL V (#8) Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Stopwatch RecommendationFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Tue, October 17, 2006 10:46 amTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Soaring@airage.com In a message dated 10/17/2006 12:08:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why would you need lap time for TD work? Not for TD, but for HLG! A practiced HLG competitor can catch and re-launch his plane in 1.5sec, the timer needs the lap recording capability to keep up! Good Lift! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Flaperon Programing for Encore-Type DLG With JR8103
Hi All, I am trying to set up a Flaperon DLG using a JR8103/R610. I believe I can do it with this RX. I am trygin to figure out if it is easest using the Sailplane full house setup with the ailerons as flaperons in the mixes, or if it is better to use the airplane Flaperon wingtype in the airplane section? I have read over the internet instructions for the setups, but still am confused. Can someone provide me with assistance for what their setup is, if possible? Thanks. Now I know why I like R/E so much and why I don't do video games! LOL. Chris Adams Thanks to those who provided input for the full house ship. Got one of those new fangled R720 freq detecting RXes. Still tryign to set everything up. I often wonder how you keep track of the single servo direction that seems to confuse everything. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] For Sale
What is it that your selling a stylus? your message didnt state. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Need answer for JR610 versus R600 Programming for Flap Aileronmodel
Help: I need to know if I can program a aileron flap ship using a JR R610M RX versus a JR R600 Rx. I can split off the Battery/channel requirements, but need on know if Aux2 can be programmed to another of the available channels. I have a 8103. Is there a link to a reference for programming somone can send me? Otherwise I have to sweeze in an R600 into a very tight 2M ship fuse. Thanks in advance. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Re: OT: Can anything be done with frosted headlight covers?
Gentleman: The simplest thing to try with in house stuff is a soft fine weave cotton cloth and toothpaste. Use the paste to wet out the cloth, don't add much water, if any, unless the paste dries as it does. Many toothpastes have a very fine grit, whether is be silica base or titanium dioxidepigment, and I use it all the time for polishing crystals on watches (when plastic), and canopies. I also use toothpast to remove the tarnish on silver necklaces. Just put the closed necklace in the palm of your hand, add paste and rub. All simple stuff learned from and old jewelr boss. Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Re: OT: Can anything be done with "frosted" headlightcovers?From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Fri, September 22, 2006 8:49 amTo: Soaring@airage.com Stan, This topic came up recently on one of the car forums I frequent. One guy had success using very fine wet/dry sandpaper (used wet), the same stuff they use in auto body painting, progressively finer, and finally polishing compound. The sandpaper is available in Pep Boys and the like, and grit rating is in the thousands (don't rememberthe exactvalues).Mine are etched from our desert sun so I was going to try this soon, and I figure the worst that will happen is I screw them up and have to replace with new ones anyway! There are products available at the auto stores for polishing plastic headlight lenses, but they are not aggressive enough to get rid of the etching. Just so Gordy doesn't blast me for a non-soaring post, I suppose you can use this technique for getting rid of frosted canopies on your scale sailplanes ;-) The other Stan In a message dated 09/21/2006 4:37:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Soaring@airage.com writes: Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:18:03 -0500From: Stan Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Soaring Digest soaring@airage.comSubject: OT: Can anything be done with "frosted" headlight covers?Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]My headlights on 98 Audi A6 are almost completely frosted. Any help out there?ThanksStan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Need Apprx CG/Towhook Location for a Pulsar 2M
To All, I am looking for an approximate CG location (inches/mm from LE) and a towhook location. If anyone can assist that has one I woudl appreciate it. thanks, Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] non soaring content
Cool, nice 1/4 scale ship. I am very surpised the guy let his friend fly the plane while he sat in it. That's courage! Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] non soaring contentFrom: Bill Johns [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Wed, September 13, 2006 5:24 pmTo: Soaring Yahoo Soaring@airage.comOK, it ain't a sailplane. It's still cute:http://flight.cz/cricri/vids/v2.wmvCheers,Bill---Out beyond ideas of wrong doing and right doing there is a field. I'll meet you there. RumiBill JohnsColton, WARCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #8144
creature in the soaring world who wa= s one hundred percent liked by everyone who knew him. Sincere sympathi= es to Johnny -- we'll all miss Butch.=0D=0A=0D=0A Tony Estep.=0D=0A= =0D=0A=0D=0A RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane === message truncated === Tnx 73 CHRIS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re David zucker
Hey David ping me back. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] re: Rudder Stalls and Turns
Blaine: I can see this effect on a moderate sized glider where the plane has inertia, however what happens when using a DLG? I am trying to understand the observations we see when a light plane is used. A DLG appears to be nearly at it's stall speed when rudder deflection is added. Hence from a "Physical" view, my plane appears to stall. I am using one of Watson's foam tailgroups on my Photon I. When a rudder stalls due to AoA deflection, what would a pilot see?Is there less rudder response? If the plane is moving significantly, I can see how all the Rudder yaw/roll is overcome by the KE. When slow the mass of the wings etc appears to enter into the observations. Additionally, with the cruciform tailsgroups in DLG versus the standard rudder/E config of say the Supra, I expect that the twist induced by the tail of the Supra versus the twist balance of the cruciform rudder there is more yaw induced in the DLG. Am I looking at this incorrectly? Thanks, Chris Adams Original Message Subject: [RCSE] re: Rudder Stalls and TurnsFrom: Blaine Beron-Rawdon [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Wed, August 02, 2006 2:06 pmTo: Soaring Soaring@airage.comCc: Mark Drela [EMAIL PROTECTED]Gents,It is worth being wrong by two orders of magnitude when it draws Mark Drela into the conversation!I stand corrected. Thanks a lot, Mark.Blaine Beron-RawdonEnvision DesignSan Pedro, CADate: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 17:56:05 -0400From: Mark Drela [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: soaring@airage.comSubject: [RCSE] re: Rudder Stalls and TurnsMessage-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is a tendency for R/E models to pitch up when a turn is initiated due to gyroscopic precession.Yes. But this precession effect is very very weak. In my simulationof a BD being given a fast 30 degree rudder input, the nose pitches upby only 0.03 degrees.Nevertheless, in this ruddering maneuver of a r/e glider, there isindeed a sudden large AoA increase of about 3 degrees (more than enoughto cause a "rudder stall"). But the cause is simply due to the linearinertia of the glider, not to precession. Imagine this sequenceduring a rudder turn, with the rotation angles exaggeratedto show the effect:1) Glider is flying level in a straight line.2) Glider yaws to the right 45 degrees (while still moving along the straight line)3) Glider rolls to the right 45 degrees along its now-yawed fuselage axis (while still moving along the straight line)You will see that the glider's belly now faces the oncoming wind along theoriginal direction of motion, which constitutes an Angle of Attack increase.In reality, the glider's yaw, roll, and turn motions will all blend togetherwith some lags between them, but the effect to cause the AoA increasewill still be there.RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Re: Rudder Stalls and turns.
Hi Jay, I have been flying my Photon 1 in the IHLGF for 4 years. I have a Watson tailgroup on it (Spyderfoam/FG) which is close to the type the Photon II has. I use alot of rudder throwand use the rudder for tight thermals, as well as using it for drag breaking and stalling. You have to use the rudder in many ways, in order to get down fast, especially close to the ground. Rudders may not stall themselves but they DO STALL THE PLANE. You can go to the Drela sites and read about how tail surfaces stall. Here are my observation and use. 1) I use ALOT of rudder throw. My desire is to up end the wing ASAP if I want to core a tight thermal. 2) I use Exponential on my Rudder, mainly to create the ability to put in minor changes when first moving the stick, and major throws on the extremes. 3) If I need to use it, especially at high altitudes, I have my dual rates set up to be 40-50% fo my normal throws. I use this when I need to fly smoothly high, as well as letting some others fly the plane. 4) Rudders do stall. However, if you are experincing Rudder stalls from level flight, then your CG is back to far. Basically, you need to increase your glide speed slightly, as you are right at the point where any drag slows the entire wing down and it stalls. Be aware, that your slowest glidespeed may not be your best L/D speed. Often you need to add down elevator to speed the plane up then initiate the turn. 5) When flying rudder/Elevator, you do need to add up elevator in your turns. You will find that once you initiate a bank, only the elevator is required. The rudder is then only used to keep the plane in the bank when required, and level when it attempts to tuck in tighter in the turn. 6) I use rudder as a Spoiler/Brake all the time. There are 2 methods. 7) Method 1: If you oscillate your rudder fast, the plane does not respond, BUT the rudder acts as drag and brakes the airplane. It is like a swing/pendulum/harmonic thing. Try it when you are close to the ground apparoaching for a catch. Basically a rudder drag brake. 8) Method 2: If you move the rudders slowly, you can get a wings oscillation set up. Big Throws make is so you can respond to making the plane turn back fast. Doing this, you can essentially induced a s-turn and after 3 turns, like right, left, right, the wing tips will stall and you can getthe plane to drop 10 feet or so. 9) There are methods to do elevator stalls coming in. You pull upp elevator up to a stall, let the nose drop, then pull up for a stall, but just as it peaks give down to level the plane then pull full up, which essentially mushes the wing in a flying level stall and the plane drops vertically while still flying. All these methods do require practice. Bill Watson often said that for R/E ships 1 ft = 1 sec of flight time, so you can basically gauge how high you need to be to make a time. 10) While most now do not do it, I like to fly a gyro on a poly ship. I tune down the gyro so that the rudder does ge affected when thermaling. Try to tune it down as low as possible as required for the throw, but so it does not affect thermal turns. 11) My Rudders are fairly thick, and the LEs blunted. the Drella sites will talk about airfoil deadband, as well as stalling. 12) As for the Rudder stick, are you right handed or left handed. As a right handed person I have flown with R/E on the right stick.This is like most. I have been flying R/E HLGs for a very long time and basically those who fly aileron ships never realize the handicaps R/E ships have. Sometimes I ask a aileron flyer to try a R/E ship because it does require a blend of R/E that shows a aileron pilot the need to add more rudder in turns. I envy the aileron giys alot too, they fly their planes well. Good Luck, Chris Adams LSF 348 LvL 5 (#8) Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Re: Rudder Stalls and turns.From: "Jay Hunter" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Mon, July 31, 2006 9:20 amTo: RCSE soaring@airage.comRudder stalls this is where I found the concept. In the building instructions of the photon II there is mention of having too much deflection, and having too much deflection may 'stall the rudder'.http://www.netmeister.net/%7Ejerry/bldgp2.htmLook in the cg section of the instructions.The consensus seems to be:1. No one has heard of a rudder stall2. A rudder turn requires some banking other wise you will just 'slide'3. Most people who use RES ships use the rudder on the right stick, not the left stick as I am doing at the present.Jay On 7/28/06, Jay Hunter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am trying to figure out if my rudder turns are accurate. I think I am experienceing rudder stalls with my photon, from either too much deflection or from holding the deflection too long. In other word do I ever want the rudder to cause my plane to roll?Can someone explain to me what a rudderstall is and how to prevent it?Should all rudder turns remain flat?Also is a roll a rudder stall of sorts?Thanks, Jay RCSE-List facilitie
[RCSE] Another set of Still more two meter thoughts
Jim and All: I appreciate and concur withthe comments that you made regarding the challenges for 2M designers. The Hand Launch Glider community has had this issue for over 10 years. With the development of the Discus Launch by Dick Barker, a whole new set of design requirements came into play. However, the 1.5 meter wingspan rule is the same. For 2 Meters planes, there has been considerable development since the original 2 Meter World Cup contests of the 70's-80's. Having considered designing a 2M plane, there is one overriding comment I must interject here, that is the launch system. I flew my Flapped Photon DLG in Open Class in Sacramento for the Spring Fling a couple of years ago. While I used their 6 volt winch and retriever, I popped off on nearly every launch. Additionally, I could only get a few hundred feet on the launch. There were problems. After a great suggestion by Jim Thomas, I walked the retriever slip swivel/ring 3/4 of the way down the winch line toward the turn around. This took about 5 minutes, but since no on else used the winch, I could do this prior to each flight. All launches after that used the swivel positon on the line as the focal point of the winch system, as if it were the turn around. The basic problems as you can seeare 3-fold: 1) The lighter, smaller, 2M meters have to be strong enough to use the SAME winches and retrievers as the 3.7 meters ships. 2) The same 2 Meters have to haul up ALL the weight of the winch line. The line is especially heavy considering the big ships need stronger winch lines and the retrievers need stronger lines just to return the higher drag lines over the ground. 3) The 2Meters have to be over-designed to take the stresses. In effect, you are not designing for aerodynamic performance, rather you are designing for the winch. Some may say this is the same, but it is not. Over the years, having been involved with the high launch/zoom controversies, it really does no matter whether the design is aerodynamically good, all that matters is that the plane can survive the zoom and haul up the line and still fly average. Oh how reminencent of the Old F3B and 2 Meter World cup days. Obviously, a 2 Meter can be accelerated to a higher speed because of it's size and weight, this translates to 600-700 ft launches. With a sink rate of 1.3 ft/sec (which is alot compared to a DLG which is well below 1 ft/sec), a pilot should be able to stay up in normal conditions over 8 minutes, well above most duration contests. You might think this simplistic, but round numbers appear within the range. When they provide a winch system that removes the handicap, perhaps more 2 Meter designers may emerge. Right now, the heavier composites have to be left to the manufacturers. This is also reminds me of the woody classes at Visalia, same things are in effect. So forget the 2 meter, go to the bigger ships. When there is just a 2 meter contest of note, akind to the IHLGF/ECHLGF/Polecat challenge, 2 M development might florish. Thermals, Chris Adams LSF 348 Lvl 5 (#8) Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Still more two meter thoughtsFrom: "Jim Deck" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Mon, July 31, 2006 1:22 pmTo: "RCSE" soaring@airage.comOK, so two R/C sailplane designers sit down to create the next world beater, one a two meter, the other an unlimited. At some point in time, the unlimited designer can simply say, "I'll increase the span." (Perhaps DP did this with his "Insanity") while the two meter designer does not have this luxury. Thus the two meter class sailplane is a challenge at every stage: design, construction, and flying. These challenges continue, IMHO, to make two meter a viable class. Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] news story
It's not that Gordy did not see it, it is just that he doesn't want to admit that he forgot to put his name and AMA numberon the plane so it could be returned to him after sucha long time. Please recall that back then his Max server had square output gears and he he had to grease them up with mammoth oil. You should see his stone toolbox and lightning rod. Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] news storyFrom: Dana Flemming [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Mon, July 31, 2006 6:08 pmTo: soaring soaring@airage.com it was great to see everyone at the NATS again, even if it was just for one day. a few weeks ago, i posted a fictional news story of archaeologists finding a plane in the ice of the Himalayas. I just found out at the NATS that Gordy never saw it. Does anyone still have it in an old folder somewhere? Thanks DanaFlemming RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] RE: Visalia Woody Class
Original Message Subject: RE: Visalia Woody ClassFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Mon, July 24, 2006 11:33 amTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Kevin, Sorry to take so long to reply. The reponses I received from Phil Hill, the CD, aregiven below. Basically it is an RES class without any molded stuff. Personally: This is a STUPID new class. It is a crutch for those who can't buy Composite RES ships, as still rules out every wood ship that ever had flaps/ailerons in nostalgia class.If you look at Question 6, you can see that most do not know anything about nostalgia/wood ships.Question 12 indicates thata concensus is that ALL oldnostalgia ships ONLYWERE RES. Not So. I know I will be on the "HIT list" once this reply is received by all, but it no different than those who complain that molded RES class ships are taking over. It might have been better to just place all molded ships greater than 2M in open class. I have flown my Graupner Cirrus for more than 5 years at Visalia, both in Open as well as RES, so I am well aware of the issues. Additionally, the Cirrus is a straight winged, dihedral RES ship, so I also have wondered whether is could even compete in the "Bent Wing" RES class too. Straight wings do not equal bent wing polys. You never know. If the "Woody" Class was open for designs, I was looking into building a very large, flapped RES ship. Now I will probably just build a wood ship, and fly it in OPEN. What the heck, if I can do well in that class with a wood ship designed for floating and landing, it may open a few eyes. Good Luck with your new designs. Thermals, Chris AdamsLSF 348 LvL 5 (#8) SNIP See the answer at the end of each question. The Woody class is for the guy whowants to fly like it was before the hi-tech crap ruined the affordablesailplane. I retained the OPEN RES for those who want to fly RES but still throwlots of bucks at it. I think you can figure it out as you go. Just think back tothe early eighties type of sailplane and you will be OK. I will be the finaljudge. Phil Can you please give us some guidelines for the Woody Class? 1) No wood sheeted foam wings? YES 2) Built-up wings with CF spar reinforcments only? YES 3) Can you CF reinforce a Balsa Leading and Trailing Edge? NO 4) Wing ribs can't be CF capped? NO 5) Are all Czech-type designed planes, e. g. Ava's, Ravins, Photons, not permitted in the class? CORRECT 6) Can you fly a woody Todi, Maestro? Do they meet the requirements? 7) All functions permitted? RES ONLY 8) Fuselages can be CF, FG, Pod and Boom, etc? YES 9) R/E's must be built up and of wood? Same types of construction as wings?YES 10) Is there some kind of Builder of the model rule? I. E. Can perkins buy his ARF ship from Hobby lobby? As long as it meets the woody calssificationit's OK 11) Who is going to measure/police the models? The biggest assholes at CVRC,ME Claude Turner 12) What other limitations? No water ballast?? Come on lets get real herethis is for the guy who just wants to compete like it used to be. If you wantthis type of crap fly RES OPEN Are you trying to get people to once again design and build wood planes?YES,Is it not obvious. Inquiring minds want to know! Thanks, Chris Adams LSF 348 LvL 5 (#8) Original Message ----Subject: Re: VisaliaFrom: "Chris Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Mon, July 24, 2006 11:09 amTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]From: "Kevin Webb" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "Chris Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: VisaliaDate: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:21:41 -0700Chris:Did you ever get an answer from Phil? Also, do you know if one flies multiple events if they can use different frequencies? I emailed Phil but haven't got an answer.Kevin WebbLSVF V- Original Message - From: "Chris Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 4:17 PMSubject: Re: VisaliaPhil,Can you please give us some guidelines for the Woody Class?1) No wood sheeted foam wings?2) Built-up wings with CF spar reinforcments only?3) Can you CF reinforce a Balsa Leading and Trailing Edge?4) Wing ribs can't be CF capped?5) Are all Czech-type designed planes, e. g. Ava's, Ravins, Photons, not permitted in the class?6) Can you fly a woody Todi, Maestro?7) All functions permitted?8) Fuselages can be CF, FG, Pod and Boom, etc?9) R/E's must be built up and of wood? Same types of construction as wings?10) Is there some kind of Builder of the model rule? I. E. Can perkins buy his ARF ship from Hobby lobby?11) Who is going to measure/police the models?12) What other limitations? No water ballast??Are you trying to get people to once again design and build wood p
RE: [RCSE] First Sailplane
My first R/C saiplane was Dave Robelen's Kestral rudder-only plane which I beleive was in Model Airplane News, approx 1970. The sheeted hollow core wing had no spars, T-Tail, 6 ft, tissue doped over balsa. I used a Controlaire Galloping ghost TX on 27.145, single channel RX with transistor switching powering a Adams Actuator (no relation). Still have the entire RC system. Wish I could find the schematics for the switching unit. That was followed by Mark Smith's Windward with a Kraft KP3C ratio (still have it too), and then a Graupner Cirrus. The Cirrus served me well enough all the way through my LSF 5 Slope flight (4 C alkalines near the CG). I have been flying a more "robust" Cirrus (my second, but I still have the original at 35 years) for 5 years and it is going STRONG. If you guys have been to Visalia the last 4-5 years, you will have seen the Yellow Bird appearing to nearly fold the wings on the current launch winches, then flatten the wings on a so-call zoom. Everyone generally yells at me not to fold the wings! After 30 years, I think I know how to fly it by now. Besides, it is probably the oldest flying plane there both in actual age as well as design. Working on molds to reproduce the fuse, and have the clear canopy pulled. It doesn't do well in the wind, but it sure outclimbs most current ships. As for Gordy and HLG, I have my original 66" HLG I flew in Dave Thronburg's 1979 HLG contest. Guys, if I show up with it at anyDLG contest, can I get it "grandfathered" in as an exception to fly it as having been a pioneer in HLG contests? It originally had a Themral sensor in it too! Chris Adams LSF 348 Lvl 5 (#8) Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] First SailplaneFrom: Fritz Bien [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Fri, June 30, 2006 12:04 pmTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.comAt 01:16 PM 6/30/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Thornburg's (all sheet balsa) Zephyr (initially with one-channel escapement) circa 1968. Any other older-than-dirt contemporaries still alive out there? Good Lift!Hi Skip, I'm still flying a Graupner Clou, though I no longer use my Kraft Custom reed set. My Ecktronics Nomad needs new tissue, and its Kraft K3VK has long given up the (galloping) ghost. -Fritz RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] VINDACATOR AIL. DIFF.
Ive got 2 slopers I've got questions about aileron differenial.One is a 60 Vindacator and a Northeast Sailplane Sparrowhawk 2m do the use the same amount of differential? Ive just got a new Stylus and am trying to set up all my palne in it. Also I've got a Art Hobby Hybrid DL hand launch same question. Chris Hallquist RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Computer Guided Thermaling
Thermal sensors in HLG, you are 30 years t late my friend! I had one inmy 66" HLG in the plane I used in Dave Thornburg's HLG contest back in the 70's. The thermal sensor responded like a bouncing Mozart tune. Found that the wingtips showed more than the mechanical assistance. All thermal sensors do is give you a false sense of thermal security. For TD , very bad. However at 60-70 MPH going cross country, at 2500-3000 feet, that is a different story. So guys, keep flying with them and you will soon learn that they really help you stay in sink. That reminds me of Ken Bates' sink detector. He put a stuff rat in his wing, covered it with monokote. When the plane flies through sink the rat jumps out and you know you should leave the area. Because we all know a Rat always leaves a sinking ship! Chris, Lsf348 Lvl 5 #8 Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Computer Guided ThermalingFrom: Daryl Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thu, January 19, 2006 10:44 pmTo: "James V. Bacus" [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.comI am lucky to get out and soar the old fashioned waywhen I can.The old fashioned way? With a picolario stuck in yourear? I'm sorry... but i don't remember that from theold daysfunny thing is... the best I've ever seen Jim fly wasat this past Nats, F3J when nothing was stuck inhis earPlease people... since it's allowed in AMAcompetition... PLEASE use your picolarios sinceAMA allows it... and cuz you guys forget to fly themodel while you're intently listening for lift;-)I'm sorry... but I feel the things should bedisallowed in competition... Should we use them inhand launch too?D__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
FW: [RCSE] hlg bagging question
If you do it all as one piece you only need to do it once. Chris From: Douglas, Brent [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] hlg bagging question Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:59:26 -0500 Just a quickie - say you're doing an aileron HLG wing, no dihedral (or minimal) Question is, do you bag it as one piece, or would you bag left and right halves to join later? I could see arguments for both, but I'm just looking for the logic I'm overlooking. Thanks and Happy Holidays, Brent _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Off Topic - Voice Recognition s/w
My lawyer uses Dragon for the prep of documents. Seems to to well. Chris From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 1-Soaring List soaring@airage.com, 1-IMAC [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1-E Zone [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1-GSAL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] Off Topic - Voice Recognition s/w Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:48:44 -0700 Curious whether anyone has enough experience to recommend a package. Trying to help a modeler who has some mobility issues. Simon Van Leeuwen PnP Systems - The E-Harness of Choice Radius Systems Cogito Ergo Zoom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] soaring stuff
Hey thanks for the heads up about this site. I.Ive been flying gliders my whole life I started with a reed set when I was in High School. Now i'am flying with a Micro pro 8000 which by the way Iam having problems with. it starting glitching the servos, and now it says there is no Ram installed.? If any body Knows about this let me know. I'am presently building a hand launch glider from Art hobby called the hybrid DL. I have a few others that I've flown Quite a bit the saguitta,vindicator,gentle lady, sparrow hawk a couple of combat foamies etc. The ones I like best are the slope gliders the faster the Better. I live in California central coast and fly on a Hill facing the ocean so we get a lot of lift on a good day coming off the water.The hang gliders also fly on this hill so the air space sometimes can get crowded.I'am Probably going to be in the market for a computer Radio neg shift or a stylus so if anybody has anything used give me a Shout. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] soaring
well I subscribed to this list now what happens? Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Subject: RC and airports
Daryl, I totally understand your position and the positions all have taken with regard to full size aircraft. We all need to be more aware, and if possible, communicate these items to our club members and on, eventually getting to pilots out there who are not easily reached through standard methods. Reminds me of the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon". I would also like to add one note for you not to get too upset with the pilot standing in line behind you on the flight line when you break the 250 pound test winchlines with your huge Insanity 3.7 and it comes screaming back over our heads. The next time the line breaks I might expect the CD (or pilot/competitor) to say, hey dude, we provide perfectly good winches, which you take beyond expectations, so fly it out. There are always sides to take, some more dangerous and expensive, and we all must be aware. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Subject: RC and airportsFrom: Daryl Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Tue, October 11, 2005 2:03 pmTo: soaring@airage.comI'm sorry people. I didn't mean to stir up this much[EMAIL PROTECTED] When it happened, I really didn't think much ofit. Just a flash of a toy airplane, "damn that wasclose...what the [EMAIL PROTECTED] is that doing there?" and Icontinued with my 25 degree bank base to final turn.Ya seeI was kinda busy at the time. I didn't getpissed until after... I don't know how close that hill is to the end of therunway 25R. At 120 kts, it sure seems pretty close.The first time I went in there, my thought was, "Whatan odd place to put a hill..." It is EXACTLY where Iwould normally turn base. Ya see, I have just replaced my windshield at 12K, anda new engine at 70K. I doubt our infamous Zagi pilothas insurance that will cover stupidity, or mywrongful but somewhat pleasing death (for some ofyou)... Or... if he'd even be there when I returned tokick his a@@... ;-)I was just sending a note to ask some of us to use ourheads. Take care and please be smart...D__ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Subject: RC and airports
Oh, yes, My favorite saying is from Einstein There are two things that are infinite, the Universe and Human Stupidity. I am unsure about the Universe. C Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Subject: RC and airportsFrom: "Randy Bullard" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Tue, October 11, 2005 10:43 pmTo: soaring@airage.com I haven't seen foam wings collide with aircraft but I've seen them hit other vehicles and they don't seem to do noticeable damage.And how many of those vehicles were doing 120kts or more? Because of their construction and speed, planes are tremendously more vulnerable to strike damage than any ground based "vehicle."The comparison with birds is ridicules. Birds don't carry lead ballast and nose weight. Lead, you know, the stuff bullets are made out of. Birds are also not under human control and don't understand planes. Foam planes are suppose to be in control of a thinking human. Obviously some are not."Over-reaction." Ok Martin. Let somebody put your life in danger and see how you over-react.RandyRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] DLG contest at Visalia
Gordy, Having run the DLG contest at Visalia, I want to correct you on a few items: 1) It is not "tradition" to run an all up last down event. Having run this contest before, the CD can run anything. I have seen speed, laps, limbo, and now the one I did. 2) The Blaster while being popular wasNOT anywhere close to be 90% of the planes flown. Not even close. I take exception to the comment you make as itsound more advertsing than anything else. Please be truthful. I have found that the choice of the event is related to the KISS principle. Hence putting in a manuever which could disrupt the flat glides of an all up last down flight was the attempt. Personally, when we were practicing on Friday night we were getting 2 loops and times of 1 minute 6 seconds dead air. Clearly in the first round where one loop was done I knew that two loops could more easily be done with some of the ships. As you noticed, we increased the loop numbers as the better and better pilots moved to the top. This should be the case because all most all up last down contests generally are won by the highest launching pilot. In this case, conservation of energy and smoothness of loops added just one more factor. BTW, at the end if both pilots had not done 3 loops, there would have been another flyoff flight. Personally, the 4 loops at 15 seconds, then wait 10 seconds and fly 3 more loops was a bit nervey. And in all, it said if you want to win you will not chicken out and not do a loop. For those of you who are interested, the rounds went 1 loop at 15 seconds and firts two down elimiated. All flight had to end back on the grass, or the pilots was out, no matter when the plane landed. The rounds continued with 2 loops at 15 seconds, then 3 loops at 15 seconds, then 2 loops at 15 seconds followed by 2 loops at 30 seconds. Then we did 3 loops at 15 and 2 loops at 30 seconds. The eventual end, with 2 pilots going at it was 4 loops at 15, then 3 loops at 10 seconds after the completion of the 4 loops, together. I had anticipated a few more midairs, when actually there were none during the contest. So it was, simple, not scorecards required, everyone, I beleive, laughed and had fun, and in the end we had some really great flying. Thanks to all who participated. Chris Adams Original Message Subject: [RCSE] "Visalia...Pikes and Sharons, and well...Pikes andSharons"From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Sat, October 01, 2005 9:52 pmTo: Soaring@airage.com snip Tradition dictates an all up last down DHLG contest(something I have been officially banned from since I seldom get enough time per toss to register on a stop watch and the rest of the pilots get embarrassed!). In the end it was JW and one other. I would say that 90% of the DLGs were Kennedy Composite Blasters, including JWs. The final launch put the other guy's plane slightly higher than JWs. But this year they threw in a hookon a cue of an air horn, a loop had to be made...the last flight had 4 in a row after a couple of two's I think...both planes were together, but JW was slightly lower. JW is the king of energy and after the 4 loop he had about 20' more than the other, which sealed the fate...and left JW with plenty of time and altitude to do a style behind the back catch. snip Gordy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] RE:Fall Fest Requencies? Larry Taylor - CVRC
Hey Guys, You are vicious! It's like a feeding frenzie of sharks in a bloodbath! To let you know, the question was simple and quite fair. I do not envy the job Larry is doing, no one ever realizes the efforts and the thankless job. I did it for a LSF tournament and back then there were no computers to use like nowadays. However, I would like to know if my registration had been received. A few years back I sent it in and it never got to Larry until 2 months AFTER the contest. So when it sounded like we would know sometime mid-late August, that is nice. I followed the comments here about two weeks ago, when someone asked then, and I waited. So now at 2 weeksbeforeit would be nice to know if I should cancel my reservations or just risk it to come. And yes, one year I showed up and was asked to change by the CD the night before. Luckily, I was able to do so. So I do not think I was asking too much, I was just calmly asking. With people entering 2 or 3 classes when one was advertised is OK, I don't blame the contest officials for adding people as it helps the overall coffers, but does this hold up the notice? Are the second and third classes an issue with scheduling?Just wondering. Chris Adams Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] RE:Fall Fest Requencies? Larry Taylor - CVRCFrom: George Gillburg [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thu, September 15, 2005 7:02 pmTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.comAt 05:32 PM 9/15/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:BTW, Has anyone know of the frequencies we are on??It's 2 weeks away, and I don't want to be changing them in the hotel before the meet.thanks,ChrisAs I understand it, Larry is having to do all the data entry himself to get the entry info ready for flight group assignment. The flight groups are assigned by two volunteers from the SSJSS who do it so all the pilots are separated from their timers. As soon as we get the info, we'll get it sorted out and back to Larry. If they had cut off the entries on August 1 like they used to do, this would all be done by now.RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] T/D flying for $$$$$
Maybe, but we took home all the rest of the hardware, and did so several times Original Message Subject: RE: [RCSE] T/D flying for $From: Chuck Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thu, September 15, 2005 6:54 pmTo: soaring@airage.comAt 08:06 PM 9/15/2005, you wrote:Don't give up on the West!Long ago, in 1974, the East coast complained that no-one from the West Coast came to the Soar Nats in Chicago.So in 1974, we had a contingent from the San Fernando Valley Silent Flyers(in LA) and the area, make the pilgramage.We got into alot of trouble when the Trophy display table items were moved to our banquet table in mass.So, I don't give up on anybody.Chris AdamsYes but I beat most of the west coast fliers that year with a first in standard class precision duration and 8th overall.Chuck Anderson RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] RE:Fall Fest Requencies? Larry Taylor - CVRC
BTW, Has anyone know of the frequencies we are on?? It's 2 weeks away, and I don't want to be changing them in the hotel before the meet. thanks, Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] Larry Taylor - CVRCFrom: Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thu, September 15, 2005 4:02 pmTo: soaring@airage.com Larry - please ping me. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dan __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] travel boxes
As a suggestion, go to Home Depot, or local Hardware store, and get one of those Cardboard Cement post pouring tubes. Fairly inexpensive, and all you have to do is make sure the diameter fits the wing chord or tailfin, and you can cut some plywood ends and screw them in as inserts. Kinda a one use item, but might work. Mark Smith , and thatis along time ago, used stovepipe exhausts to do the same thing for his old windfrees. BTW, I use the tubes in my 4-runner to side my wings and fuses in when I am on the road. Cheap, and you can pile stuff on top while still not crushing the plane parts. Chris Original Message Subject: [RCSE] travel boxesFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thu, September 15, 2005 5:15 pmTo: Soaring@airage.com I am going to fly to cape cod for business but somehow i want to take a sloper with me. What works on airplanes? Some mag article wrote that a local boxes would do it cheap. Wrongs, not for a 2 meter sailplane. They just dont do it after 15 calls made.One firm in chicago would do it for about $50 becasue they have a cadcam system to cut the cardboard. Im not looking for alum cases yet. The skiboard carriers are expensive. Any ideas helpful Dr Bill Snow Cleveland Ohio RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] T/D flying for $$$$$
Don't give up on the West! Long ago, in 1974, the East coast complained that no-one from the West Coast came to the Soar Nats in Chicago. So in 1974, we had a contingent from the San Fernando Valley Silent Flyers(in LA) and the area, make the pilgramage. We got into alot of trouble when the Trophy display table items were moved to our banquet table in mass. So, I don't give up on anybody. Chris Adams Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] T/D flying for $From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thu, September 15, 2005 3:24 pmTo: soaring@airage.comIn a message dated 9/15/2005 4:13:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The EAST is LEAST (likely to lose!) I'll see your crummy $20 and bump to $50! Kiesling, Lachowski, Glaab, pack your bags! (Gordy will be snuck in to make smoke other distractions) Good Lift!RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Retro winch
Jim, It's the "Darwin Award" equivalent for true F3B and F3J pilots in Europe. The "Gorilla" and Flywheel winches were descendants. Somehow, someone made it through their first launch. Chris Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Retro winchFrom: "James V. Bacus" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Mon, September 12, 2005 4:44 pmTo: soaring@airage.comWhere's the pedal? 8-)At 06:38 PM 9/12/2005, S Meyer wrote:That's great! ROTFLAt 10:07 AM 9/12/2005, Arne Ansper wrote:http://nakotne.com/e107_plugins/kig_menu/index.php?view=imageimageId=795The engine is from old Russian chainsaw "Druzhba" (Friendship).regards,ArneJimDowners Grove, ILMember of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JRAMA 592537 LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.netRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
FW: [RCSE] Tripping modern airfoils, and why do flaps and spoilers do what they do?
Let me start a Jihad here. I have experienced what tripping an airfoil can do on the two best planes I have ever had and beleive in tripping. I have seen other people acting like it is the best thing since sliced bread after checking it out. It turbulates the air so there is less seperation thereby reducing drag. My DLG's launch higher and have less tendancy to tip stall. Now, people who think I have chasing Squirrels in my brain are goint to say things like, I checked it out on X-Foil and it will not work, period What I would ask of them is how many positions, thicknesses, and lengths did you evaluate? See how hard it gets! Plus, I would propose that no two wings, even from the best craftsman are identical, especially if they are bagged. You need to fiddle with it and don't expext positive results on your first try. Try it, you will like it if you give it a little time. From: Scott and Jennifer Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Tripping modern airfoils, and why do flaps and spoilers do what they do? Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 16:52:39 -0700 Bob Dodgson tripped his E214-equipped wings to achieve better performance. I'm not aware of any other sailplane designers who recommend this. Does anyone today recommend this as a way to improve airfoil performance? Was it ever a legitimate idea in the first place? If it's something that actually works, what kinds of airfoils benefit most from it? Spoilers reduce lift and pitch the nose down; flaps increase lift and pitch the nose up. This we all know. What I don't understand is why the nose pitches the way it does. Does the center of gravity somehow shift? Why doesn't the nose maintain the attitude it had before the flaps or spoilers were activated? Scott Martin Chandler, Ariz. _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Warning to all LSF Level II and above
Don't worry, he can't sit still for 8 hours, nor chew gum and thermal for the GR at the same time! Chris Adams Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Warning to all LSF Level II and aboveFrom: "Ed Berris" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thu, September 08, 2005 2:40 pmTo: "Jim Deck" [EMAIL PROTECTED], "RCSE" soaring@airage.comGood Lord! If Gordy achieves his level 5 we'll never hear the end of it.If you think he's hard to live with now just wait until he acomplishes allthe tasks of this demanding challenge. I think I'll be able to hear himbragging all the way to Minneapolis.I've got to leave now to get sound proofing supplies for my house. Maybe ifI work hard I'll be able to seal out all the noise that I know will follow.Oh ya, one more thing. GOOD LUCK, GORDY.Ed- Original Message - From: "Jim Deck" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "RCSE" soaring@airage.comSent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:14 PMSubject: [RCSE] Warning to all LSF Level II and above Attention all LSF Level II through V: I have just processed Mr. Gordy Stahl's Level IV voucher and his LevelV voucher is in the mail. As a result, you may find yourself approached by this gentleman and perhaps invited to join him for some soaring. Bewarned that he only wants you to stand by for two hours while he completes the thermal task. Be really suspicious if he invites you slope soaring as he will expect you to stand by for 8 hours while he completes the slopetask!! Good luck to you, Gordy. Jim DeckLSF Secretary RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note thatsubscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format withMIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOLare generally NOT in text formatRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] digest
Anybody, how do I get my RCSE mail into digest form? TNX Chris Tnx 73 CHRIS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
