Re: H14 is out !
Houdini comes with way more extensive ways.you can work with one mantra node for each pass. where in the mantra node you can put what are the objects you want to see, witch ones to matte. or phantoms (matte but reflect and refract). with the mantra node you can Split the channels as color, diffuse, gi, shadows, reflection, custom shaders etc.. (you can pass an object attribute to the render) the other way to work. that will be similar to xsi is using takes. takes are a basically a list of parameters in the hole scene that get override at render time. and you can make you own settings, copy them, you can even have one take and extend that take just like a programming class. and they are very easy to use them, just turn the check box on the top right interface autotakes, create a take, give it a name in the take tab, and start moving parameters, each one of this will change color to a light Brown letting you know that in that particular take that you are working on as been modify. modo took the same approach of doing takes. (a Little more convoluted i think.) or you can go hardcore and mix and match takes with mantra nodes =) El Jueves, 22 de enero, 2015 16:59:48, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com escribió: You have a very good passes system but you don’t have Overrides like you have in Softimage although you can simulate some of that behaviour using takes and other approaches. Also at shader level you can setup quite a sophisticated passes system so it is not as simple and beautiful/elegant as Soft but is the best you can get. The Softimage to Houdini guide I wrote has quite a long chapter on the subject; http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=2711Itemid=166 hope it helps jb On 22 Jan 2015, at 22:08, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.com wrote: What's the status of Houdini and/or other apps in terms of render passes, etc.? I just love me some passes and overrides and have been using them insanely for years. I'm terrified to try and work without them. Kris On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Be ready to have someone write some help if you ever do, without a decent system to reduce them to sparse data and to work do the work GPU side 800 shapes move at the speed of a brick chained to a column, especially in Maya :) XSI 5 however was managing it respectably well already on Pentium III and 4s back then :) On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Thanks Raff, I have used both techniques but never heard some of those terms ICE made doing this work much easier for me. I have never ended up with 800 shapes but give me the time and the budget and that sounds like a blast :) On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: You can blame Bay Raitt for some of the names being thrown around, and the LISP community he grew up in :) Combination sculpting comes in two flavors, FACS based, with expressions tabled out and combinations being largely corrective and flattened out, and twitch based, with shapes representing individual muscles as roots, combinations of nearby muscles in couples or triplets as first branch, and so on to full face compensation, usually you stop at tier three or four, which can easily get you hundreds of shapes (Charlotte in Charlotte's web was twitch combinations and amounted to 802 shapes, Gollum in return of the kind was FACS and I think Bay ended up in the 820 or so range in the end). You can use something like stretch mesh (or ideally better) equalisation process after that to reduce drift if you're in a hurry with the broad strokes. Combinatorics are shapes that bridge two other shapes by correcting their conflict (additive) rather than by replacing them (you can combine with C = abs(A-B) in the former, or suplant with C = abs(A-B) and then subtract C's intensity from A and B). On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: We (Brad did all the ICE magic) worked up some pretty niffy tricks for our head tech demo. We could pose our head which was a slightly enhanced FR rig export a reference head into ZB... bring it back into soft the subtract the the deforms of the mesh and reapply only the differences from the corrective shape. Point drift is caused most of the time by subdividing the model in Zbrush. If you do a subdivision in Z all your base point will shift. In our case the mesh was dense enough that was not an issue, we could still clearly see the forms without subdividing while in Zbrush. Brad wired up a ICE tree for the imported corrective shapes to be triggered by pulling different distances from the rig. Of course drift can happen from someone moving points they have no business of moving, or even worse they move points in the wrong direction for the correction or shape. I always work in a stepped process to avoid
Re: H14 is out !
Hi Kris, It's very powerful indeed, check this out: http://vimeo.com/98484834 On Thursday, 22 January 2015, Eric Turman i.anima...@gmail.com wrote: It was a different mindset compared to Softimage, but even back in 2006 on The Ant Bully the ROPs were very powerful and easy to transfer between scenes. I haven't looked into them lately though. On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Chris Johnson chr...@topixfx.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','chr...@topixfx.com'); wrote: It's been a while and I didn't use them extensively but Houdini has quite a robust render pass element to it. On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','krisri...@gmail.com'); wrote: What's the status of Houdini and/or other apps in terms of render passes, etc.? I just love me some passes and overrides and have been using them insanely for years. I'm terrified to try and work without them. Kris -- -=T=-
Re: H14 is out !
You have a very good passes system but you don’t have Overrides like you have in Softimage although you can simulate some of that behaviour using takes and other approaches. Also at shader level you can setup quite a sophisticated passes system so it is not as simple and beautiful/elegant as Soft but is the best you can get. The Softimage to Houdini guide I wrote has quite a long chapter on the subject; http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=2711Itemid=166 hope it helps jb On 22 Jan 2015, at 22:08, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.com wrote: What's the status of Houdini and/or other apps in terms of render passes, etc.? I just love me some passes and overrides and have been using them insanely for years. I'm terrified to try and work without them. Kris On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Be ready to have someone write some help if you ever do, without a decent system to reduce them to sparse data and to work do the work GPU side 800 shapes move at the speed of a brick chained to a column, especially in Maya :) XSI 5 however was managing it respectably well already on Pentium III and 4s back then :) On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com mailto:g...@janimation.com wrote: Thanks Raff, I have used both techniques but never heard some of those terms ICE made doing this work much easier for me. I have never ended up with 800 shapes but give me the time and the budget and that sounds like a blast :) On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: You can blame Bay Raitt for some of the names being thrown around, and the LISP community he grew up in :) Combination sculpting comes in two flavors, FACS based, with expressions tabled out and combinations being largely corrective and flattened out, and twitch based, with shapes representing individual muscles as roots, combinations of nearby muscles in couples or triplets as first branch, and so on to full face compensation, usually you stop at tier three or four, which can easily get you hundreds of shapes (Charlotte in Charlotte's web was twitch combinations and amounted to 802 shapes, Gollum in return of the kind was FACS and I think Bay ended up in the 820 or so range in the end). You can use something like stretch mesh (or ideally better) equalisation process after that to reduce drift if you're in a hurry with the broad strokes. Combinatorics are shapes that bridge two other shapes by correcting their conflict (additive) rather than by replacing them (you can combine with C = abs(A-B) in the former, or suplant with C = abs(A-B) and then subtract C's intensity from A and B). On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com mailto:g...@janimation.com wrote: We (Brad did all the ICE magic) worked up some pretty niffy tricks for our head tech demo. We could pose our head which was a slightly enhanced FR rig export a reference head into ZB... bring it back into soft the subtract the the deforms of the mesh and reapply only the differences from the corrective shape. Point drift is caused most of the time by subdividing the model in Zbrush. If you do a subdivision in Z all your base point will shift. In our case the mesh was dense enough that was not an issue, we could still clearly see the forms without subdividing while in Zbrush. Brad wired up a ICE tree for the imported corrective shapes to be triggered by pulling different distances from the rig. Of course drift can happen from someone moving points they have no business of moving, or even worse they move points in the wrong direction for the correction or shape. I always work in a stepped process to avoid this for shapes, whether I sent to Zbrush or not. I am at first only focused on how the point mass moves first. I try to get this done with as few proportional moves as possible. Then I test the motion in Soft and on the rig., take a look at what it looks like with the jaw open etc. Then I slowly massage the shapes into place checking the sculpt in action I don't remember if the zbrush link busts your rig, in our case the workflow was to use separate reference geo. It is better if it when done all under one roof but if my point count goes high enough I will jump through a few hoops to get to a better point manipulator. Raf I have never heard the term combinatorics before, and when I looked it up I could not find any references that clearly showed me how it applied to shape animation or rigging. Can you point me to a reference that might help fill in my knowledge gap : ) Also Eric, I had heard of folks having a different neutral vs skinning pose but I have not really seen a good explanation of the idea. I have
Re: H14 is out !
What's the status of Houdini and/or other apps in terms of render passes, etc.? I just love me some passes and overrides and have been using them insanely for years. I'm terrified to try and work without them. Kris On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Be ready to have someone write some help if you ever do, without a decent system to reduce them to sparse data and to work do the work GPU side 800 shapes move at the speed of a brick chained to a column, especially in Maya :) XSI 5 however was managing it respectably well already on Pentium III and 4s back then :) On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Thanks Raff, I have used both techniques but never heard some of those terms ICE made doing this work much easier for me. I have never ended up with 800 shapes but give me the time and the budget and that sounds like a blast :) On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: You can blame Bay Raitt for some of the names being thrown around, and the LISP community he grew up in :) Combination sculpting comes in two flavors, FACS based, with expressions tabled out and combinations being largely corrective and flattened out, and twitch based, with shapes representing individual muscles as roots, combinations of nearby muscles in couples or triplets as first branch, and so on to full face compensation, usually you stop at tier three or four, which can easily get you hundreds of shapes (Charlotte in Charlotte's web was twitch combinations and amounted to 802 shapes, Gollum in return of the kind was FACS and I think Bay ended up in the 820 or so range in the end). You can use something like stretch mesh (or ideally better) equalisation process after that to reduce drift if you're in a hurry with the broad strokes. Combinatorics are shapes that bridge two other shapes by correcting their conflict (additive) rather than by replacing them (you can combine with C = abs(A-B) in the former, or suplant with C = abs(A-B) and then subtract C's intensity from A and B). On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: We (Brad did all the ICE magic) worked up some pretty niffy tricks for our head tech demo. We could pose our head which was a slightly enhanced FR rig export a reference head into ZB... bring it back into soft the subtract the the deforms of the mesh and reapply only the differences from the corrective shape. Point drift is caused most of the time by subdividing the model in Zbrush. If you do a subdivision in Z all your base point will shift. In our case the mesh was dense enough that was not an issue, we could still clearly see the forms without subdividing while in Zbrush. Brad wired up a ICE tree for the imported corrective shapes to be triggered by pulling different distances from the rig. Of course drift can happen from someone moving points they have no business of moving, or even worse they move points in the wrong direction for the correction or shape. I always work in a stepped process to avoid this for shapes, whether I sent to Zbrush or not. I am at first only focused on how the point mass moves first. I try to get this done with as few proportional moves as possible. Then I test the motion in Soft and on the rig., take a look at what it looks like with the jaw open etc. Then I slowly massage the shapes into place checking the sculpt in action I don't remember if the zbrush link busts your rig, in our case the workflow was to use separate reference geo. It is better if it when done all under one roof but if my point count goes high enough I will jump through a few hoops to get to a better point manipulator. Raf I have never heard the term combinatorics before, and when I looked it up I could not find any references that clearly showed me how it applied to shape animation or rigging. Can you point me to a reference that might help fill in my knowledge gap : ) Also Eric, I had heard of folks having a different neutral vs skinning pose but I have not really seen a good explanation of the idea. I have modified a sculpt to be better for rigging, but that shape then becomes my base shape. What is the difference? On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: If you're doing combinatorics you don't model the shapes in isolation, you tweak a base and need to see the result on the combination, which might be one to four tiers of combinations away. You don't do combination sculpting without the rig because you don't do combination sculpting on the final shape half the time if you're sensible and can't waste a lot of time in kickbacks. Doing shapes in ZBrush is doable, but they all need a lot of work after coming back in because by the nature of ZBrush you will have shit drifting all over the place. When
Re: H14 is out !
It was a different mindset compared to Softimage, but even back in 2006 on The Ant Bully the ROPs were very powerful and easy to transfer between scenes. I haven't looked into them lately though. On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Chris Johnson chr...@topixfx.com wrote: It's been a while and I didn't use them extensively but Houdini has quite a robust render pass element to it. On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.com wrote: What's the status of Houdini and/or other apps in terms of render passes, etc.? I just love me some passes and overrides and have been using them insanely for years. I'm terrified to try and work without them. Kris -- -=T=-
Re: H14 is out !
It's been a while and I didn't use them extensively but Houdini has quite a robust render pass element to it. On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.com wrote: What's the status of Houdini and/or other apps in terms of render passes, etc.? I just love me some passes and overrides and have been using them insanely for years. I'm terrified to try and work without them. Kris On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Be ready to have someone write some help if you ever do, without a decent system to reduce them to sparse data and to work do the work GPU side 800 shapes move at the speed of a brick chained to a column, especially in Maya :) XSI 5 however was managing it respectably well already on Pentium III and 4s back then :) On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Thanks Raff, I have used both techniques but never heard some of those terms ICE made doing this work much easier for me. I have never ended up with 800 shapes but give me the time and the budget and that sounds like a blast :) On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: You can blame Bay Raitt for some of the names being thrown around, and the LISP community he grew up in :) Combination sculpting comes in two flavors, FACS based, with expressions tabled out and combinations being largely corrective and flattened out, and twitch based, with shapes representing individual muscles as roots, combinations of nearby muscles in couples or triplets as first branch, and so on to full face compensation, usually you stop at tier three or four, which can easily get you hundreds of shapes (Charlotte in Charlotte's web was twitch combinations and amounted to 802 shapes, Gollum in return of the kind was FACS and I think Bay ended up in the 820 or so range in the end). You can use something like stretch mesh (or ideally better) equalisation process after that to reduce drift if you're in a hurry with the broad strokes. Combinatorics are shapes that bridge two other shapes by correcting their conflict (additive) rather than by replacing them (you can combine with C = abs(A-B) in the former, or suplant with C = abs(A-B) and then subtract C's intensity from A and B). On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: We (Brad did all the ICE magic) worked up some pretty niffy tricks for our head tech demo. We could pose our head which was a slightly enhanced FR rig export a reference head into ZB... bring it back into soft the subtract the the deforms of the mesh and reapply only the differences from the corrective shape. Point drift is caused most of the time by subdividing the model in Zbrush. If you do a subdivision in Z all your base point will shift. In our case the mesh was dense enough that was not an issue, we could still clearly see the forms without subdividing while in Zbrush. Brad wired up a ICE tree for the imported corrective shapes to be triggered by pulling different distances from the rig. Of course drift can happen from someone moving points they have no business of moving, or even worse they move points in the wrong direction for the correction or shape. I always work in a stepped process to avoid this for shapes, whether I sent to Zbrush or not. I am at first only focused on how the point mass moves first. I try to get this done with as few proportional moves as possible. Then I test the motion in Soft and on the rig., take a look at what it looks like with the jaw open etc. Then I slowly massage the shapes into place checking the sculpt in action I don't remember if the zbrush link busts your rig, in our case the workflow was to use separate reference geo. It is better if it when done all under one roof but if my point count goes high enough I will jump through a few hoops to get to a better point manipulator. Raf I have never heard the term combinatorics before, and when I looked it up I could not find any references that clearly showed me how it applied to shape animation or rigging. Can you point me to a reference that might help fill in my knowledge gap : ) Also Eric, I had heard of folks having a different neutral vs skinning pose but I have not really seen a good explanation of the idea. I have modified a sculpt to be better for rigging, but that shape then becomes my base shape. What is the difference? On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: If you're doing combinatorics you don't model the shapes in isolation, you tweak a base and need to see the result on the combination, which might be one to four tiers of combinations away. You don't do combination sculpting without the rig because you don't do combination sculpting on the final shape half the time if you're sensible and can't waste a lot
Re: H14 is out !
Be ready to have someone write some help if you ever do, without a decent system to reduce them to sparse data and to work do the work GPU side 800 shapes move at the speed of a brick chained to a column, especially in Maya :) XSI 5 however was managing it respectably well already on Pentium III and 4s back then :) On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Thanks Raff, I have used both techniques but never heard some of those terms ICE made doing this work much easier for me. I have never ended up with 800 shapes but give me the time and the budget and that sounds like a blast :) On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: You can blame Bay Raitt for some of the names being thrown around, and the LISP community he grew up in :) Combination sculpting comes in two flavors, FACS based, with expressions tabled out and combinations being largely corrective and flattened out, and twitch based, with shapes representing individual muscles as roots, combinations of nearby muscles in couples or triplets as first branch, and so on to full face compensation, usually you stop at tier three or four, which can easily get you hundreds of shapes (Charlotte in Charlotte's web was twitch combinations and amounted to 802 shapes, Gollum in return of the kind was FACS and I think Bay ended up in the 820 or so range in the end). You can use something like stretch mesh (or ideally better) equalisation process after that to reduce drift if you're in a hurry with the broad strokes. Combinatorics are shapes that bridge two other shapes by correcting their conflict (additive) rather than by replacing them (you can combine with C = abs(A-B) in the former, or suplant with C = abs(A-B) and then subtract C's intensity from A and B). On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: We (Brad did all the ICE magic) worked up some pretty niffy tricks for our head tech demo. We could pose our head which was a slightly enhanced FR rig export a reference head into ZB... bring it back into soft the subtract the the deforms of the mesh and reapply only the differences from the corrective shape. Point drift is caused most of the time by subdividing the model in Zbrush. If you do a subdivision in Z all your base point will shift. In our case the mesh was dense enough that was not an issue, we could still clearly see the forms without subdividing while in Zbrush. Brad wired up a ICE tree for the imported corrective shapes to be triggered by pulling different distances from the rig. Of course drift can happen from someone moving points they have no business of moving, or even worse they move points in the wrong direction for the correction or shape. I always work in a stepped process to avoid this for shapes, whether I sent to Zbrush or not. I am at first only focused on how the point mass moves first. I try to get this done with as few proportional moves as possible. Then I test the motion in Soft and on the rig., take a look at what it looks like with the jaw open etc. Then I slowly massage the shapes into place checking the sculpt in action I don't remember if the zbrush link busts your rig, in our case the workflow was to use separate reference geo. It is better if it when done all under one roof but if my point count goes high enough I will jump through a few hoops to get to a better point manipulator. Raf I have never heard the term combinatorics before, and when I looked it up I could not find any references that clearly showed me how it applied to shape animation or rigging. Can you point me to a reference that might help fill in my knowledge gap : ) Also Eric, I had heard of folks having a different neutral vs skinning pose but I have not really seen a good explanation of the idea. I have modified a sculpt to be better for rigging, but that shape then becomes my base shape. What is the difference? On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: If you're doing combinatorics you don't model the shapes in isolation, you tweak a base and need to see the result on the combination, which might be one to four tiers of combinations away. You don't do combination sculpting without the rig because you don't do combination sculpting on the final shape half the time if you're sensible and can't waste a lot of time in kickbacks. Doing shapes in ZBrush is doable, but they all need a lot of work after coming back in because by the nature of ZBrush you will have shit drifting all over the place. When they will add more than a single morph and a few simple vector operations to wire the morphs it will then be the ultimate tool for it, right now it's like trying to drive a truck out of a parking lot with a small gate. Blindfolded. On iced out ground. With a monkey hitting you on the head with a baseball bat
Re: H14 is out !
I didn't think you could send a rigged mesh back and forth between Softimage and Zbrush, or when you send to zbrush, I didn't think it'd replace the rigged mesh in your scene. Always thought it had to be a stand alone mesh, or when it did come back, it'd be one. I do think you need to have the rigged mesh in the same app you're doing your blend shapes in. Otherwise, you're sculpting shapes that will work in a neutral pose and when you go to deform it with your skinning in a pose you may end up with artifacts. One cool thing about Soft, is that you can set one viewport to show you results of the stack in modeling, then in one that is the full deform. Pushing and pulling points in the neutral and seeing the results of that in the pose. Since the final character deformation is the conglomeration of different deformers, you can get better mileage out of each one if you do edits on them while seeing the final results. The consequence of not, is that you have to sculpt many in-between shapes and pose by pose correctives that you may not have needed to if you front load the work and iterations when building them up in the first place. Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Raff while what you say is true about needing to check the results of your sculpts in combination with with other shapes and deformers. There is no reason those edits should not be done in the tool-set best suited to sculpt. Using something like Zaplink or a few scripts can make the back and forth seamless. ICE made it so much easier to to pose based deformations and corrective shapes using Zbrush to edit. That being said I still do a great bit of my shape work in soft, unless its a very dense mesh, then I whip out the Z
Re: H14 is out !
If you're doing combinatorics you don't model the shapes in isolation, you tweak a base and need to see the result on the combination, which might be one to four tiers of combinations away. You don't do combination sculpting without the rig because you don't do combination sculpting on the final shape half the time if you're sensible and can't waste a lot of time in kickbacks. Doing shapes in ZBrush is doable, but they all need a lot of work after coming back in because by the nature of ZBrush you will have shit drifting all over the place. When they will add more than a single morph and a few simple vector operations to wire the morphs it will then be the ultimate tool for it, right now it's like trying to drive a truck out of a parking lot with a small gate. Blindfolded. On iced out ground. With a monkey hitting you on the head with a baseball bat every five seconds. Technically doable, but not worth the bother unless you get to show the mental breakdowns on TV and cash them in :) If you're doing cartoony or largely procedurally shaded stuff you can take a fair amount of drift. if you're doing something that has hundreds of rigid scales or precisely styled hair bound to the UV space it's an unmitigated disaster when you don't have something like Soft (or a shitton of stuff piled on top of Maya) around to do the work. On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Raff while what you say is true about needing to check the results of your sculpts in combination with with other shapes and deformers. There is no reason those edits should not be done in the tool-set best suited to sculpt. Using something like Zaplink or a few scripts can make the back and forth seamless. ICE made it so much easier to to pose based deformations and corrective shapes using Zbrush to edit. That being said I still do a great bit of my shape work in soft, unless its a very dense mesh, then I whip out the Z On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: The problem with ZBrush, or any modelling app that doesn't have your full rig in it, is that for things like combination sculpting they are useless, because you need to see multiple timelines of the shapes converging as you refine them for the result to be any good. It's also a ton easier to get combinatorics started in Soft since you can start any shape from any number of others with ICE. I so miss that in any other app (that last bit is literally the only one where Houdini could compete or even surpass Soft, actually, though it's somewhat painful to wrangle the shit together when you hit a certain degree of complexity and you end up spending more time making an uber rig than you do working the shapes' alignment). On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:27 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the notes, there has been quite a lot of changes but it is true there are a few of your comments still pending, the most pressing to me is speed and the viewport needs still lots of love. BTW, I was not advocating to use Houdini for modelling though, rather use Zbrush to be honest and now that Zbrush is getting closer to a full set of traditional modelling tools it is pretty obvious it is the route to go. My feeling is that character work is certainly more painful but at least you get some serious gains and unfortunately there are no options so we are in a transition moment. So far they are listening and moving forward so I will stick to Houdini for the time being and keep an eye on others. :-) jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 21:28, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: A lot of quality rigging, despite piles of papers trying to sell the public on the contrary, is still manually tweaked. Taking things out of the app where you have the full rig makes authoring a major pain. The most basic example is shapes, doing shapes work in XSI for something like a combination sculpting setup was as easy as it got, especially after ICE. The way data is presented and accessible, the speed on large meshes, the modelling toolkit, it all lent itself to that kind of work in a perfect storm scenario. Doing the same in Maya, comparatively, is beyond painful and requires a pretty big staging effort to separate work and write accessory tools, in Houdini you don't even have a particularly intuitive modelling toolkit, and the handling of large meshes was pretty meh with it (at least up to 12, it seems to be getting better and promising to be getting better again). The toolkit in general is pretty hard to impossible to give to a modeller with little inclination to learn something like Houdini, while with both Maya and Soft that's not a big challenge. I haven't tried the muscle system in a while, so my comment might be dated to the point of not being valid, but the last time I did it was a bit of a joke. No arbitrary topology for the deformers unless you
Re: H14 is out !
We (Brad did all the ICE magic) worked up some pretty niffy tricks for our head tech demo. We could pose our head which was a slightly enhanced FR rig export a reference head into ZB... bring it back into soft the subtract the the deforms of the mesh and reapply only the differences from the corrective shape. Point drift is caused most of the time by subdividing the model in Zbrush. If you do a subdivision in Z all your base point will shift. In our case the mesh was dense enough that was not an issue, we could still clearly see the forms without subdividing while in Zbrush. Brad wired up a ICE tree for the imported corrective shapes to be triggered by pulling different distances from the rig. Of course drift can happen from someone moving points they have no business of moving, or even worse they move points in the wrong direction for the correction or shape. I always work in a stepped process to avoid this for shapes, whether I sent to Zbrush or not. I am at first only focused on how the point mass moves first. I try to get this done with as few proportional moves as possible. Then I test the motion in Soft and on the rig., take a look at what it looks like with the jaw open etc. Then I slowly massage the shapes into place checking the sculpt in action I don't remember if the zbrush link busts your rig, in our case the workflow was to use separate reference geo. It is better if it when done all under one roof but if my point count goes high enough I will jump through a few hoops to get to a better point manipulator. Raf I have never heard the term combinatorics before, and when I looked it up I could not find any references that clearly showed me how it applied to shape animation or rigging. Can you point me to a reference that might help fill in my knowledge gap : ) Also Eric, I had heard of folks having a different neutral vs skinning pose but I have not really seen a good explanation of the idea. I have modified a sculpt to be better for rigging, but that shape then becomes my base shape. What is the difference? On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: If you're doing combinatorics you don't model the shapes in isolation, you tweak a base and need to see the result on the combination, which might be one to four tiers of combinations away. You don't do combination sculpting without the rig because you don't do combination sculpting on the final shape half the time if you're sensible and can't waste a lot of time in kickbacks. Doing shapes in ZBrush is doable, but they all need a lot of work after coming back in because by the nature of ZBrush you will have shit drifting all over the place. When they will add more than a single morph and a few simple vector operations to wire the morphs it will then be the ultimate tool for it, right now it's like trying to drive a truck out of a parking lot with a small gate. Blindfolded. On iced out ground. With a monkey hitting you on the head with a baseball bat every five seconds. Technically doable, but not worth the bother unless you get to show the mental breakdowns on TV and cash them in :) If you're doing cartoony or largely procedurally shaded stuff you can take a fair amount of drift. if you're doing something that has hundreds of rigid scales or precisely styled hair bound to the UV space it's an unmitigated disaster when you don't have something like Soft (or a shitton of stuff piled on top of Maya) around to do the work. On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Raff while what you say is true about needing to check the results of your sculpts in combination with with other shapes and deformers. There is no reason those edits should not be done in the tool-set best suited to sculpt. Using something like Zaplink or a few scripts can make the back and forth seamless. ICE made it so much easier to to pose based deformations and corrective shapes using Zbrush to edit. That being said I still do a great bit of my shape work in soft, unless its a very dense mesh, then I whip out the Z On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: The problem with ZBrush, or any modelling app that doesn't have your full rig in it, is that for things like combination sculpting they are useless, because you need to see multiple timelines of the shapes converging as you refine them for the result to be any good. It's also a ton easier to get combinatorics started in Soft since you can start any shape from any number of others with ICE. I so miss that in any other app (that last bit is literally the only one where Houdini could compete or even surpass Soft, actually, though it's somewhat painful to wrangle the shit together when you hit a certain degree of complexity and you end up spending more time making an uber rig than you do working the shapes' alignment). On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:27
Re: H14 is out !
On 17 Jan 2015, at 21:59, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Also Eric, I had heard of folks having a different neutral vs skinning pose but I have not really seen a good explanation of the idea. I have modified a sculpt to be better for rigging, but that shape then becomes my base shape. What is the difference? Animation transfer between characters is my main reason.
Re: H14 is out !
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Have any of the Softy Houdini converts noticed new features you requested ? They already put a lot of our soft requests in there many years ago like netview, similarities to rendertree, etc. ;) -- Graham D Clark, VP/Head of Stereography, Stereo D, Deluxe phone: why-I-stereo http://www.linkedin.com/in/grahamclark
Re: H14 is out !
I am preparing a list as many of these come from direct feedback from some of us. To name a few, animator editor has been revamped in quite a major way, animation layers, viewport enhancements, manipulation enhancements (edge loops, etc…) shortcuts and interaction. color picker, etc… Regarding the net view, there has been one similar and also pretty left behind the times net view-like tool but I think you want to invest in the new QT interface, just check the tutorial on characters. enjoy jb On 17 Jan 2015, at 22:16, Graham D. Clark mailgrahamdcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Have any of the Softy Houdini converts noticed new features you requested ? They already put a lot of our soft requests in there many years ago like netview, similarities to rendertree, etc. ;) -- Graham D Clark, VP/Head of Stereography, Stereo D, Deluxe phone: why-I-stereo http://www.linkedin.com/in/grahamclark
Re: H14 is out !
I am in the same camp, I don’t see Houdini as my modeller, the same way I don’t see Maya nor Softimage as my modeller although IMHO Softimage is certainly the best in breed for this kind of work. jb On 17 Jan 2015, at 21:59, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: We (Brad did all the ICE magic) worked up some pretty niffy tricks for our head tech demo. We could pose our head which was a slightly enhanced FR rig export a reference head into ZB... bring it back into soft the subtract the the deforms of the mesh and reapply only the differences from the corrective shape. Point drift is caused most of the time by subdividing the model in Zbrush. If you do a subdivision in Z all your base point will shift. In our case the mesh was dense enough that was not an issue, we could still clearly see the forms without subdividing while in Zbrush. Brad wired up a ICE tree for the imported corrective shapes to be triggered by pulling different distances from the rig. Of course drift can happen from someone moving points they have no business of moving, or even worse they move points in the wrong direction for the correction or shape. I always work in a stepped process to avoid this for shapes, whether I sent to Zbrush or not. I am at first only focused on how the point mass moves first. I try to get this done with as few proportional moves as possible. Then I test the motion in Soft and on the rig., take a look at what it looks like with the jaw open etc. Then I slowly massage the shapes into place checking the sculpt in action I don't remember if the zbrush link busts your rig, in our case the workflow was to use separate reference geo. It is better if it when done all under one roof but if my point count goes high enough I will jump through a few hoops to get to a better point manipulator. Raf I have never heard the term combinatorics before, and when I looked it up I could not find any references that clearly showed me how it applied to shape animation or rigging. Can you point me to a reference that might help fill in my knowledge gap : ) Also Eric, I had heard of folks having a different neutral vs skinning pose but I have not really seen a good explanation of the idea. I have modified a sculpt to be better for rigging, but that shape then becomes my base shape. What is the difference? On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: If you're doing combinatorics you don't model the shapes in isolation, you tweak a base and need to see the result on the combination, which might be one to four tiers of combinations away. You don't do combination sculpting without the rig because you don't do combination sculpting on the final shape half the time if you're sensible and can't waste a lot of time in kickbacks. Doing shapes in ZBrush is doable, but they all need a lot of work after coming back in because by the nature of ZBrush you will have shit drifting all over the place. When they will add more than a single morph and a few simple vector operations to wire the morphs it will then be the ultimate tool for it, right now it's like trying to drive a truck out of a parking lot with a small gate. Blindfolded. On iced out ground. With a monkey hitting you on the head with a baseball bat every five seconds. Technically doable, but not worth the bother unless you get to show the mental breakdowns on TV and cash them in :) If you're doing cartoony or largely procedurally shaded stuff you can take a fair amount of drift. if you're doing something that has hundreds of rigid scales or precisely styled hair bound to the UV space it's an unmitigated disaster when you don't have something like Soft (or a shitton of stuff piled on top of Maya) around to do the work. On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com mailto:g...@janimation.com wrote: Raff while what you say is true about needing to check the results of your sculpts in combination with with other shapes and deformers. There is no reason those edits should not be done in the tool-set best suited to sculpt. Using something like Zaplink or a few scripts can make the back and forth seamless. ICE made it so much easier to to pose based deformations and corrective shapes using Zbrush to edit. That being said I still do a great bit of my shape work in soft, unless its a very dense mesh, then I whip out the Z On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: The problem with ZBrush, or any modelling app that doesn't have your full rig in it, is that for things like combination sculpting they are useless, because you need to see multiple timelines of the shapes converging as you refine them for the result to be any good. It's also a ton easier to get
Re: H14 is out !
Hey Greg, What I was referring to is to sculpt shapes on the base (neutral) model, and be able to see it at the same time in the rigged pose. Each view port in Softimage has the ability to change Construction Mode Display. Set to current and make sure you're in modeling mode and that viewport will be looking at the non-deformed model. Create your shapes there and tweak as needed. On another viewport keep it set to Result (top) and pose the character and you'll see the full deformed / posed rig. Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com Raf I have never heard the term combinatorics before, and when I looked it up I could not find any references that clearly showed me how it applied to shape animation or rigging. Can you point me to a reference that might help fill in my knowledge gap : ) Also Eric, I had heard of folks having a different neutral vs skinning pose but I have not really seen a good explanation of the idea. I have modified a sculpt to be better for rigging, but that shape then becomes my base shape. What is the difference?
Re: H14 is out !
You can blame Bay Raitt for some of the names being thrown around, and the LISP community he grew up in :) Combination sculpting comes in two flavors, FACS based, with expressions tabled out and combinations being largely corrective and flattened out, and twitch based, with shapes representing individual muscles as roots, combinations of nearby muscles in couples or triplets as first branch, and so on to full face compensation, usually you stop at tier three or four, which can easily get you hundreds of shapes (Charlotte in Charlotte's web was twitch combinations and amounted to 802 shapes, Gollum in return of the kind was FACS and I think Bay ended up in the 820 or so range in the end). You can use something like stretch mesh (or ideally better) equalisation process after that to reduce drift if you're in a hurry with the broad strokes. Combinatorics are shapes that bridge two other shapes by correcting their conflict (additive) rather than by replacing them (you can combine with C = abs(A-B) in the former, or suplant with C = abs(A-B) and then subtract C's intensity from A and B). On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: We (Brad did all the ICE magic) worked up some pretty niffy tricks for our head tech demo. We could pose our head which was a slightly enhanced FR rig export a reference head into ZB... bring it back into soft the subtract the the deforms of the mesh and reapply only the differences from the corrective shape. Point drift is caused most of the time by subdividing the model in Zbrush. If you do a subdivision in Z all your base point will shift. In our case the mesh was dense enough that was not an issue, we could still clearly see the forms without subdividing while in Zbrush. Brad wired up a ICE tree for the imported corrective shapes to be triggered by pulling different distances from the rig. Of course drift can happen from someone moving points they have no business of moving, or even worse they move points in the wrong direction for the correction or shape. I always work in a stepped process to avoid this for shapes, whether I sent to Zbrush or not. I am at first only focused on how the point mass moves first. I try to get this done with as few proportional moves as possible. Then I test the motion in Soft and on the rig., take a look at what it looks like with the jaw open etc. Then I slowly massage the shapes into place checking the sculpt in action I don't remember if the zbrush link busts your rig, in our case the workflow was to use separate reference geo. It is better if it when done all under one roof but if my point count goes high enough I will jump through a few hoops to get to a better point manipulator. Raf I have never heard the term combinatorics before, and when I looked it up I could not find any references that clearly showed me how it applied to shape animation or rigging. Can you point me to a reference that might help fill in my knowledge gap : ) Also Eric, I had heard of folks having a different neutral vs skinning pose but I have not really seen a good explanation of the idea. I have modified a sculpt to be better for rigging, but that shape then becomes my base shape. What is the difference? On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: If you're doing combinatorics you don't model the shapes in isolation, you tweak a base and need to see the result on the combination, which might be one to four tiers of combinations away. You don't do combination sculpting without the rig because you don't do combination sculpting on the final shape half the time if you're sensible and can't waste a lot of time in kickbacks. Doing shapes in ZBrush is doable, but they all need a lot of work after coming back in because by the nature of ZBrush you will have shit drifting all over the place. When they will add more than a single morph and a few simple vector operations to wire the morphs it will then be the ultimate tool for it, right now it's like trying to drive a truck out of a parking lot with a small gate. Blindfolded. On iced out ground. With a monkey hitting you on the head with a baseball bat every five seconds. Technically doable, but not worth the bother unless you get to show the mental breakdowns on TV and cash them in :) If you're doing cartoony or largely procedurally shaded stuff you can take a fair amount of drift. if you're doing something that has hundreds of rigid scales or precisely styled hair bound to the UV space it's an unmitigated disaster when you don't have something like Soft (or a shitton of stuff piled on top of Maya) around to do the work. On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Raff while what you say is true about needing to check the results of your sculpts in combination with with other shapes and deformers. There is no reason those edits should not be
Re: H14 is out !
Thanks Raff, I have used both techniques but never heard some of those terms ICE made doing this work much easier for me. I have never ended up with 800 shapes but give me the time and the budget and that sounds like a blast :) On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: You can blame Bay Raitt for some of the names being thrown around, and the LISP community he grew up in :) Combination sculpting comes in two flavors, FACS based, with expressions tabled out and combinations being largely corrective and flattened out, and twitch based, with shapes representing individual muscles as roots, combinations of nearby muscles in couples or triplets as first branch, and so on to full face compensation, usually you stop at tier three or four, which can easily get you hundreds of shapes (Charlotte in Charlotte's web was twitch combinations and amounted to 802 shapes, Gollum in return of the kind was FACS and I think Bay ended up in the 820 or so range in the end). You can use something like stretch mesh (or ideally better) equalisation process after that to reduce drift if you're in a hurry with the broad strokes. Combinatorics are shapes that bridge two other shapes by correcting their conflict (additive) rather than by replacing them (you can combine with C = abs(A-B) in the former, or suplant with C = abs(A-B) and then subtract C's intensity from A and B). On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: We (Brad did all the ICE magic) worked up some pretty niffy tricks for our head tech demo. We could pose our head which was a slightly enhanced FR rig export a reference head into ZB... bring it back into soft the subtract the the deforms of the mesh and reapply only the differences from the corrective shape. Point drift is caused most of the time by subdividing the model in Zbrush. If you do a subdivision in Z all your base point will shift. In our case the mesh was dense enough that was not an issue, we could still clearly see the forms without subdividing while in Zbrush. Brad wired up a ICE tree for the imported corrective shapes to be triggered by pulling different distances from the rig. Of course drift can happen from someone moving points they have no business of moving, or even worse they move points in the wrong direction for the correction or shape. I always work in a stepped process to avoid this for shapes, whether I sent to Zbrush or not. I am at first only focused on how the point mass moves first. I try to get this done with as few proportional moves as possible. Then I test the motion in Soft and on the rig., take a look at what it looks like with the jaw open etc. Then I slowly massage the shapes into place checking the sculpt in action I don't remember if the zbrush link busts your rig, in our case the workflow was to use separate reference geo. It is better if it when done all under one roof but if my point count goes high enough I will jump through a few hoops to get to a better point manipulator. Raf I have never heard the term combinatorics before, and when I looked it up I could not find any references that clearly showed me how it applied to shape animation or rigging. Can you point me to a reference that might help fill in my knowledge gap : ) Also Eric, I had heard of folks having a different neutral vs skinning pose but I have not really seen a good explanation of the idea. I have modified a sculpt to be better for rigging, but that shape then becomes my base shape. What is the difference? On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: If you're doing combinatorics you don't model the shapes in isolation, you tweak a base and need to see the result on the combination, which might be one to four tiers of combinations away. You don't do combination sculpting without the rig because you don't do combination sculpting on the final shape half the time if you're sensible and can't waste a lot of time in kickbacks. Doing shapes in ZBrush is doable, but they all need a lot of work after coming back in because by the nature of ZBrush you will have shit drifting all over the place. When they will add more than a single morph and a few simple vector operations to wire the morphs it will then be the ultimate tool for it, right now it's like trying to drive a truck out of a parking lot with a small gate. Blindfolded. On iced out ground. With a monkey hitting you on the head with a baseball bat every five seconds. Technically doable, but not worth the bother unless you get to show the mental breakdowns on TV and cash them in :) If you're doing cartoony or largely procedurally shaded stuff you can take a fair amount of drift. if you're doing something that has hundreds of rigid scales or precisely styled hair bound to the UV space it's an unmitigated disaster when you don't have
Re: H14 is out !
Raff while what you say is true about needing to check the results of your sculpts in combination with with other shapes and deformers. There is no reason those edits should not be done in the tool-set best suited to sculpt. Using something like Zaplink or a few scripts can make the back and forth seamless. ICE made it so much easier to to pose based deformations and corrective shapes using Zbrush to edit. That being said I still do a great bit of my shape work in soft, unless its a very dense mesh, then I whip out the Z On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: The problem with ZBrush, or any modelling app that doesn't have your full rig in it, is that for things like combination sculpting they are useless, because you need to see multiple timelines of the shapes converging as you refine them for the result to be any good. It's also a ton easier to get combinatorics started in Soft since you can start any shape from any number of others with ICE. I so miss that in any other app (that last bit is literally the only one where Houdini could compete or even surpass Soft, actually, though it's somewhat painful to wrangle the shit together when you hit a certain degree of complexity and you end up spending more time making an uber rig than you do working the shapes' alignment). On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:27 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the notes, there has been quite a lot of changes but it is true there are a few of your comments still pending, the most pressing to me is speed and the viewport needs still lots of love. BTW, I was not advocating to use Houdini for modelling though, rather use Zbrush to be honest and now that Zbrush is getting closer to a full set of traditional modelling tools it is pretty obvious it is the route to go. My feeling is that character work is certainly more painful but at least you get some serious gains and unfortunately there are no options so we are in a transition moment. So far they are listening and moving forward so I will stick to Houdini for the time being and keep an eye on others. :-) jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 21:28, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: A lot of quality rigging, despite piles of papers trying to sell the public on the contrary, is still manually tweaked. Taking things out of the app where you have the full rig makes authoring a major pain. The most basic example is shapes, doing shapes work in XSI for something like a combination sculpting setup was as easy as it got, especially after ICE. The way data is presented and accessible, the speed on large meshes, the modelling toolkit, it all lent itself to that kind of work in a perfect storm scenario. Doing the same in Maya, comparatively, is beyond painful and requires a pretty big staging effort to separate work and write accessory tools, in Houdini you don't even have a particularly intuitive modelling toolkit, and the handling of large meshes was pretty meh with it (at least up to 12, it seems to be getting better and promising to be getting better again). The toolkit in general is pretty hard to impossible to give to a modeller with little inclination to learn something like Houdini, while with both Maya and Soft that's not a big challenge. I haven't tried the muscle system in a while, so my comment might be dated to the point of not being valid, but the last time I did it was a bit of a joke. No arbitrary topology for the deformers unless you cloth collided (and the cloth solver was anything but acceptable), only some weak superset of metaballs, rather slow, but at least it was relatively stable, and overall clunky and requiring the lot a lot of micromanagement and a lot of SOPs that often refused to play nicely with the rest of the app. Mind, I haven't found a single commercial muscle system I would use if they paid me for it, which is pretty embarrassing given when we needed one for WWD we got a rather intuitive one done in just a few weeks that worked for over 99% of the show meshes without manual intervention of any sort on the sim, and literally only a dozen mesh fixes across over 800 shots. On top of all that, and again this is pre-14, most pre-13, it's slow. Mind boggingly slow to articulate a decent animation rig. I suspect this last point has been, or is about to be, superseded though since the viewport has been getting some love. The main issue though remains that preparing an asset in Houdini remains a long and involved process which very few people from other departments, some times nobody, can be recruited into, it's born, lives and dies in the hands of TDs. I've always had a soft spot for Houdini, and I'd give my money to SideFX rather than many other companies any day of the year, but as a company their commitment to character work of artistic or hybrid nature has always been patchy (and I don't
Re: H14 is out !
Very cool update, that's an impressive 'What's New'. And those short videos are great. The Indie and Education versions are perfectly priced to dive in and start testing. The future looks bright. ;-) Rob \/-\/\/ On 16-1-2015 7:19, Gerbrand Nel wrote: Did they drop the price too? I'm sure indie and indie engine was about $600 yesterday. Anyway, I never spent $300 s easily!! Anyone else have weird interaction in 14 though? I use a wacom in mouse mode, and the navigation is totaly broken in 14, still fine in 13. Anyone? G On 16/01/2015 07:14, Matt Lind wrote: Not only did Autodesk not update Lagoa, Polygonizer, etc..., but they also cited those tools specifically as reasons to kill Softimage claiming they required 5 developers to maintain those tools plus mental ray per release. Matt Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 01:31:20 +0100 From: Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de Subject: RE: H14 is out ! To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Exactly Mr. Fregtman. The Polygonizer stayed in its initial release at ADSK. The tremendous work, Eric Mootz did with the Polygonizer to develop it further and make it a really outstanding work in that area was of no attention for ADSK. Not to mention the other plugins he developed. ADSK bought or licensed some of it in an early stage, incorporated it in a giving software and that's it. Polygonizer was kept in version 1.0 for Softimage by ADSK. Same happenend to Lagoa at version 1.0 as well. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4260/8933 - Release Date: 01/15/15
Re: H14 is out !
Hi Gerbrand, the price hasn't changed it's always been the same for indie. There used to be an HD version for $100 (before indie) but that didn't allow commercial work. On 16 January 2015 at 08:55, Rob Wuijster r...@casema.nl wrote: Very cool update, that's an impressive 'What's New'. And those short videos are great. The Indie and Education versions are perfectly priced to dive in and start testing. The future looks bright. ;-) Rob \/-\/\/ On 16-1-2015 7:19, Gerbrand Nel wrote: Did they drop the price too? I'm sure indie and indie engine was about $600 yesterday. Anyway, I never spent $300 s easily!! Anyone else have weird interaction in 14 though? I use a wacom in mouse mode, and the navigation is totaly broken in 14, still fine in 13. Anyone? G On 16/01/2015 07:14, Matt Lind wrote: Not only did Autodesk not update Lagoa, Polygonizer, etc..., but they also cited those tools specifically as reasons to kill Softimage claiming they required 5 developers to maintain those tools plus mental ray per release. Matt Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 01:31:20 +0100 From: Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de sixsi_l...@imagefront.de Subject: RE: H14 is out ! To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Exactly Mr. Fregtman. The Polygonizer stayed in its initial release at ADSK. The tremendous work, Eric Mootz did with the Polygonizer to develop it further and make it a really outstanding work in that area was of no attention for ADSK. Not to mention the other plugins he developed. ADSK bought or licensed some of it in an early stage, incorporated it in a giving software and that's it. Polygonizer was kept in version 1.0 for Softimage by ADSK. Same happenend to Lagoa at version 1.0 as well. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4260/8933 - Release Date: 01/15/15
Re: H14 is out !
Rob Wuijster schreef op 16-1-2015 om 9:55: The future looks bright. ;-) You just had to jinx it... :D Greetz Leendert -- Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
Re: H14 is out !
Very tempted to learn also Houdini! it looks great! I would strongly suggest to extend as soon as possible the integration with Unreal Engine 4, in my opinion your sales of the indie lincese will increase a lot, since from what I've seen the integration with Unity is pretty darn good and totally usefull ;) 2015-01-16 10:59 GMT+01:00 Leendert A. Hartog hirazib...@live.nl: Rob Wuijster schreef op 16-1-2015 om 9:55: The future looks bright. ;-) You just had to jinx it... :D Greetz Leendert -- Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
Re: H14 is out !
modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution..
Re: H14 is out !
Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution..
Re: H14 is out !
Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com mailto:nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution..
Re: H14 is out !
heheh sounds good, I mean yea in Maya I always felt like walking on glass feets, and f you make a slight move in wrong direction everything falls apart and no way to put it together again :) thanks On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution..
Re: H14 is out !
I particularly like the procedural nature of your rig and how you can “assetize” the various components to be reused later, and they have their own built in code and logic so it becomes like lego. Also the skinning process is really really flexible and allows for a lot of experimentation and transfer of data which is a pleasure. And of course if you update the geometry things just work in a very elegant way so having a “factory” scene that creates characters is pretty much trivial, something you will be pressed to do in Maya or XSI without lots of code. All in all the issue I had in the past is that H13 had a weak animation system and H14 sorts that (surely can be improved) but right now it is no longer a major issue like before. The process of animating/review/animating with multiple is not as fast as XSI or Maya but I am sure will get there. hope it helps jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 12:28, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com mailto:nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution..
Re: H14 is out !
So true… how many times I have seen it happening and no-one, literally no-one knew what was going on... jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 12:40, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: heheh sounds good, I mean yea in Maya I always felt like walking on glass feets, and f you make a slight move in wrong direction everything falls apart and no way to put it together again :) thanks On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com mailto:nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com mailto:nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution..
Re: H14 is out !
Question, I saw the term of the indie version is 365 days from purchase, is the Houdini/Houdini FX licensing annual as well or perpetual? Not that I can afford the full workstation license as a hobbyist, but the EULA stated no particular length. I'm also curious if a crossgrade would be allowed if a project were to be picked up, such as a cartoon done on spec, so assets could be used if income suddenly becomes +100k. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: So true… how many times I have seen it happening and no-one, literally no-one knew what was going on... jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 12:40, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: heheh sounds good, I mean yea in Maya I always felt like walking on glass feets, and f you make a slight move in wrong direction everything falls apart and no way to put it together again :) thanks On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution..
Re: H14 is out !
Yes, indie version is per year, as well as Houdini Engine indie and commercial. I think SideFX can do a one time conversion of your scenes if you need to go from indie to commercial. On 16-Jan-15 11:15, Patrick Neese wrote: Question, I saw the term of the indie version is 365 days from purchase, is the Houdini/Houdini FX licensing annual as well or perpetual? Not that I can afford the full workstation license as a hobbyist, but the EULA stated no particular length. I'm also curious if a crossgrade would be allowed if a project were to be picked up, such as a cartoon done on spec, so assets could be used if income suddenly becomes +100k. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: So true… how many times I have seen it happening and no-one, literally no-one knew what was going on... jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 12:40, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: heheh sounds good, I mean yea in Maya I always felt like walking on glass feets, and f you make a slight move in wrong direction everything falls apart and no way to put it together again :) thanks On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution..
Re: H14 is out !
You pay 4495$ for Houdini FX and you get that version and 1 year of annual upgrade plan. When that expires you can pay additional 2400$ (HoudiniFX) for Annual upgrade plan or just stay with version you bought. https://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=385Itemid=190 -- Micic Srecko --- Mail: srecko.mi...@gmail.com Skype:srecko.micic --- 3D/Graphic Portfolio: http://www.coroflot.com/SreckoM On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 5:15 PM, Patrick Neese patrickne...@gmail.com wrote: Question, I saw the term of the indie version is 365 days from purchase, is the Houdini/Houdini FX licensing annual as well or perpetual? Not that I can afford the full workstation license as a hobbyist, but the EULA stated no particular length. I'm also curious if a crossgrade would be allowed if a project were to be picked up, such as a cartoon done on spec, so assets could be used if income suddenly becomes +100k. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: So true… how many times I have seen it happening and no-one, literally no-one knew what was going on... jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 12:40, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: heheh sounds good, I mean yea in Maya I always felt like walking on glass feets, and f you make a slight move in wrong direction everything falls apart and no way to put it together again :) thanks On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution..
Re: H14 is out !
It's only true for some definitions of rigging. If you need proceduralism of course it does spectacularly well, and assets are simply best of breed in the industry and have been for years, end of story. For the hand-crafted complex character rig and tuned deformation kind of job though, no, it's not nicer than Soft, and I'd be hard pressed to make an argument for it over Maya (which I consider pretty bottom barreling already without a ton of custom work). Some of the upgrades in H14 and some of the future roadmap do bode well for that though. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution.. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: H14 is out !
May I ask you to elaborate the “complex character rigging and tuned deformation”, I may be missing something. To start with you have muscles in Houdini which you don’t, let alone FEM simulations and a universal physics engine to cope with pretty sophisticated things… Certainly it is easier in Softimage and more artist friendly to setup but I see the rigging side as one very strong point. If you are talking about screen space corrections, blend shapes and advanced contact collision its certainly doable with the toolset. :-| thx jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 16:59, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: It's only true for some definitions of rigging. If you need proceduralism of course it does spectacularly well, and assets are simply best of breed in the industry and have been for years, end of story. For the hand-crafted complex character rig and tuned deformation kind of job though, no, it's not nicer than Soft, and I'd be hard pressed to make an argument for it over Maya (which I consider pretty bottom barreling already without a ton of custom work). Some of the upgrades in H14 and some of the future roadmap do bode well for that though. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com mailto:nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com mailto:nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution.. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: H14 is out !
Jordi, why did they choose not to allow enveloping to Null Objects ? Do you always use a bone instead ? Or do you go for something more abstract like machting/ transferring PointPosition attributes ? thanks in advance :) 2015-01-16 18:45 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com: May I ask you to elaborate the “complex character rigging and tuned deformation”, I may be missing something. To start with you have muscles in Houdini which you don’t, let alone FEM simulations and a universal physics engine to cope with pretty sophisticated things… Certainly it is easier in Softimage and more artist friendly to setup but I see the rigging side as one very strong point. If you are talking about screen space corrections, blend shapes and advanced contact collision its certainly doable with the toolset. :-| thx jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 16:59, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: It's only true for some definitions of rigging. If you need proceduralism of course it does spectacularly well, and assets are simply best of breed in the industry and have been for years, end of story. For the hand-crafted complex character rig and tuned deformation kind of job though, no, it's not nicer than Soft, and I'd be hard pressed to make an argument for it over Maya (which I consider pretty bottom barreling already without a ton of custom work). Some of the upgrades in H14 and some of the future roadmap do bode well for that though. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and enveloping is huge crap and biggest reason that I don't wanna ago back int othat hell at first place. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: After trying to learn maya for about 6 months, learning houdini is a breath of fresh air!! It is not softimage, but I think its the only thing that will come close to the flexibility and power of soft for small studios and freelancers. Once you get into it, It is even more power. I tried learning it about 2 years ago, and gave up because I thought my time would be better spent getting better in soft (the future was still bright back then) Back then it seemed complicated, but after dealing with maya, it feels sooo much friendlier. The way I see it, you get the operator stack, and ice tree, all in one place, the network view So its one thing to learn. In Maya I feel like I have to learn new software every time I do something else. Rigging I found nicer than soft, and the animation editor in houdini feels like a polished version of the soft one. Houdini engine is still blowing my mind.. like it doesn't stop!! At $300 you cannot ignore this as a piece of your pipeline! I'll probably do allot of work in maya because I need to fit into teams of Mayans, but with the houdini engine, I can do the work in the software best suited for it, without forcing the rest of the team to conform. G On 16/01/2015 12:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: modeling and character riga nd animation wise it is I assume sitill nt as suser friendly as SI right? how us ievrall generalist and smalls tudio experience? SI is more or less out of the box great steramlined solution.. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: H14 is out !
A lot of quality rigging, despite piles of papers trying to sell the public on the contrary, is still manually tweaked. Taking things out of the app where you have the full rig makes authoring a major pain. The most basic example is shapes, doing shapes work in XSI for something like a combination sculpting setup was as easy as it got, especially after ICE. The way data is presented and accessible, the speed on large meshes, the modelling toolkit, it all lent itself to that kind of work in a perfect storm scenario. Doing the same in Maya, comparatively, is beyond painful and requires a pretty big staging effort to separate work and write accessory tools, in Houdini you don't even have a particularly intuitive modelling toolkit, and the handling of large meshes was pretty meh with it (at least up to 12, it seems to be getting better and promising to be getting better again). The toolkit in general is pretty hard to impossible to give to a modeller with little inclination to learn something like Houdini, while with both Maya and Soft that's not a big challenge. I haven't tried the muscle system in a while, so my comment might be dated to the point of not being valid, but the last time I did it was a bit of a joke. No arbitrary topology for the deformers unless you cloth collided (and the cloth solver was anything but acceptable), only some weak superset of metaballs, rather slow, but at least it was relatively stable, and overall clunky and requiring the lot a lot of micromanagement and a lot of SOPs that often refused to play nicely with the rest of the app. Mind, I haven't found a single commercial muscle system I would use if they paid me for it, which is pretty embarrassing given when we needed one for WWD we got a rather intuitive one done in just a few weeks that worked for over 99% of the show meshes without manual intervention of any sort on the sim, and literally only a dozen mesh fixes across over 800 shots. On top of all that, and again this is pre-14, most pre-13, it's slow. Mind boggingly slow to articulate a decent animation rig. I suspect this last point has been, or is about to be, superseded though since the viewport has been getting some love. The main issue though remains that preparing an asset in Houdini remains a long and involved process which very few people from other departments, some times nobody, can be recruited into, it's born, lives and dies in the hands of TDs. I've always had a soft spot for Houdini, and I'd give my money to SideFX rather than many other companies any day of the year, but as a company their commitment to character work of artistic or hybrid nature has always been patchy (and I don't necessarily blame them for it) and subpar. They have a lot of work to make up for it, but they seem to be slowly doing it while making sure they don't lose their core business with FX and end-to-end clients. I will certainly be looking at H14 as soon as some space for it in the stash of stuff I need and want to do before clears up :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 6:45 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: May I ask you to elaborate the “complex character rigging and tuned deformation”, I may be missing something. To start with you have muscles in Houdini which you don’t, let alone FEM simulations and a universal physics engine to cope with pretty sophisticated things… Certainly it is easier in Softimage and more artist friendly to setup but I see the rigging side as one very strong point. If you are talking about screen space corrections, blend shapes and advanced contact collision its certainly doable with the toolset. :-| thx jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 16:59, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: It's only true for some definitions of rigging. If you need proceduralism of course it does spectacularly well, and assets are simply best of breed in the industry and have been for years, end of story. For the hand-crafted complex character rig and tuned deformation kind of job though, no, it's not nicer than Soft, and I'd be hard pressed to make an argument for it over Maya (which I consider pretty bottom barreling already without a ton of custom work). Some of the upgrades in H14 and some of the future roadmap do bode well for that though. On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Well I say nicer, because there are allot of toys to play with. I think rigging is the part where you need a non destructive procedural work flow the most. In Maya it feels like you have to make damn sure you are done with step A before moving onto step B. Houdini is flexible to the point where you become reckless with your work flow :) Bit more complex when you get started, but worth it. The auto rig at the very least doesn't break like the soft one used to in 2011 :) G On 16/01/2015 14:08, Mirko Jankovic wrote: Riggin nicer then Soft? Will have to check it out then.. In maya rigging and
Re: H14 is out !
Thanks for the notes, there has been quite a lot of changes but it is true there are a few of your comments still pending, the most pressing to me is speed and the viewport needs still lots of love. BTW, I was not advocating to use Houdini for modelling though, rather use Zbrush to be honest and now that Zbrush is getting closer to a full set of traditional modelling tools it is pretty obvious it is the route to go. My feeling is that character work is certainly more painful but at least you get some serious gains and unfortunately there are no options so we are in a transition moment. So far they are listening and moving forward so I will stick to Houdini for the time being and keep an eye on others. :-) jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 21:28, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: A lot of quality rigging, despite piles of papers trying to sell the public on the contrary, is still manually tweaked. Taking things out of the app where you have the full rig makes authoring a major pain. The most basic example is shapes, doing shapes work in XSI for something like a combination sculpting setup was as easy as it got, especially after ICE. The way data is presented and accessible, the speed on large meshes, the modelling toolkit, it all lent itself to that kind of work in a perfect storm scenario. Doing the same in Maya, comparatively, is beyond painful and requires a pretty big staging effort to separate work and write accessory tools, in Houdini you don't even have a particularly intuitive modelling toolkit, and the handling of large meshes was pretty meh with it (at least up to 12, it seems to be getting better and promising to be getting better again). The toolkit in general is pretty hard to impossible to give to a modeller with little inclination to learn something like Houdini, while with both Maya and Soft that's not a big challenge. I haven't tried the muscle system in a while, so my comment might be dated to the point of not being valid, but the last time I did it was a bit of a joke. No arbitrary topology for the deformers unless you cloth collided (and the cloth solver was anything but acceptable), only some weak superset of metaballs, rather slow, but at least it was relatively stable, and overall clunky and requiring the lot a lot of micromanagement and a lot of SOPs that often refused to play nicely with the rest of the app. Mind, I haven't found a single commercial muscle system I would use if they paid me for it, which is pretty embarrassing given when we needed one for WWD we got a rather intuitive one done in just a few weeks that worked for over 99% of the show meshes without manual intervention of any sort on the sim, and literally only a dozen mesh fixes across over 800 shots. On top of all that, and again this is pre-14, most pre-13, it's slow. Mind boggingly slow to articulate a decent animation rig. I suspect this last point has been, or is about to be, superseded though since the viewport has been getting some love. The main issue though remains that preparing an asset in Houdini remains a long and involved process which very few people from other departments, some times nobody, can be recruited into, it's born, lives and dies in the hands of TDs. I've always had a soft spot for Houdini, and I'd give my money to SideFX rather than many other companies any day of the year, but as a company their commitment to character work of artistic or hybrid nature has always been patchy (and I don't necessarily blame them for it) and subpar. They have a lot of work to make up for it, but they seem to be slowly doing it while making sure they don't lose their core business with FX and end-to-end clients. I will certainly be looking at H14 as soon as some space for it in the stash of stuff I need and want to do before clears up :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 6:45 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: May I ask you to elaborate the “complex character rigging and tuned deformation”, I may be missing something. To start with you have muscles in Houdini which you don’t, let alone FEM simulations and a universal physics engine to cope with pretty sophisticated things… Certainly it is easier in Softimage and more artist friendly to setup but I see the rigging side as one very strong point. If you are talking about screen space corrections, blend shapes and advanced contact collision its certainly doable with the toolset. :-| thx jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 16:59, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: It's only true for some definitions of rigging. If you need proceduralism of course it does spectacularly well, and assets are simply best of breed in the industry and have been for years, end of story. For the hand-crafted complex character rig and tuned
Re: H14 is out !
The problem with ZBrush, or any modelling app that doesn't have your full rig in it, is that for things like combination sculpting they are useless, because you need to see multiple timelines of the shapes converging as you refine them for the result to be any good. It's also a ton easier to get combinatorics started in Soft since you can start any shape from any number of others with ICE. I so miss that in any other app (that last bit is literally the only one where Houdini could compete or even surpass Soft, actually, though it's somewhat painful to wrangle the shit together when you hit a certain degree of complexity and you end up spending more time making an uber rig than you do working the shapes' alignment). On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:27 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the notes, there has been quite a lot of changes but it is true there are a few of your comments still pending, the most pressing to me is speed and the viewport needs still lots of love. BTW, I was not advocating to use Houdini for modelling though, rather use Zbrush to be honest and now that Zbrush is getting closer to a full set of traditional modelling tools it is pretty obvious it is the route to go. My feeling is that character work is certainly more painful but at least you get some serious gains and unfortunately there are no options so we are in a transition moment. So far they are listening and moving forward so I will stick to Houdini for the time being and keep an eye on others. :-) jb On 16 Jan 2015, at 21:28, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: A lot of quality rigging, despite piles of papers trying to sell the public on the contrary, is still manually tweaked. Taking things out of the app where you have the full rig makes authoring a major pain. The most basic example is shapes, doing shapes work in XSI for something like a combination sculpting setup was as easy as it got, especially after ICE. The way data is presented and accessible, the speed on large meshes, the modelling toolkit, it all lent itself to that kind of work in a perfect storm scenario. Doing the same in Maya, comparatively, is beyond painful and requires a pretty big staging effort to separate work and write accessory tools, in Houdini you don't even have a particularly intuitive modelling toolkit, and the handling of large meshes was pretty meh with it (at least up to 12, it seems to be getting better and promising to be getting better again). The toolkit in general is pretty hard to impossible to give to a modeller with little inclination to learn something like Houdini, while with both Maya and Soft that's not a big challenge. I haven't tried the muscle system in a while, so my comment might be dated to the point of not being valid, but the last time I did it was a bit of a joke. No arbitrary topology for the deformers unless you cloth collided (and the cloth solver was anything but acceptable), only some weak superset of metaballs, rather slow, but at least it was relatively stable, and overall clunky and requiring the lot a lot of micromanagement and a lot of SOPs that often refused to play nicely with the rest of the app. Mind, I haven't found a single commercial muscle system I would use if they paid me for it, which is pretty embarrassing given when we needed one for WWD we got a rather intuitive one done in just a few weeks that worked for over 99% of the show meshes without manual intervention of any sort on the sim, and literally only a dozen mesh fixes across over 800 shots. On top of all that, and again this is pre-14, most pre-13, it's slow. Mind boggingly slow to articulate a decent animation rig. I suspect this last point has been, or is about to be, superseded though since the viewport has been getting some love. The main issue though remains that preparing an asset in Houdini remains a long and involved process which very few people from other departments, some times nobody, can be recruited into, it's born, lives and dies in the hands of TDs. I've always had a soft spot for Houdini, and I'd give my money to SideFX rather than many other companies any day of the year, but as a company their commitment to character work of artistic or hybrid nature has always been patchy (and I don't necessarily blame them for it) and subpar. They have a lot of work to make up for it, but they seem to be slowly doing it while making sure they don't lose their core business with FX and end-to-end clients. I will certainly be looking at H14 as soon as some space for it in the stash of stuff I need and want to do before clears up :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 6:45 PM, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: May I ask you to elaborate the “complex character rigging and tuned deformation”, I may be missing something. To start with you have muscles in Houdini which you don’t, let alone FEM simulations and a
Re: H14 is out !
Lot's of xsi in there. Shortcuts very similar, edge loop quasi similar. even the LMB RMB and MMB to use X,Y or Z axis remembers of the original SI. Animation layers too. Position solver makes me thinks of lagoa. Still watching the videos. The guys at SideFX did serious homeworks imho. Le 15/01/2015 22:44, Sebastien Sterling a écrit : Have any of the Softy Houdini converts noticed new features you requested ? On 15 January 2015 at 21:08, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=3042Itemid=66
H14 is out !
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=3042Itemid=66
Re: H14 is out !
Have any of the Softy Houdini converts noticed new features you requested ? On 15 January 2015 at 21:08, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask= viewid=3042Itemid=66
Re: H14 is out !
:-) love it jb On 15 Jan 2015, at 22:00, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Lot's of xsi in there. Shortcuts very similar, edge loop quasi similar. even the LMB RMB and MMB to use X,Y or Z axis remembers of the original SI. Animation layers too. Position solver makes me thinks of lagoa. Still watching the videos. The guys at SideFX did serious homeworks imho. Le 15/01/2015 22:44, Sebastien Sterling a écrit : Have any of the Softy Houdini converts noticed new features you requested ? On 15 January 2015 at 21:08, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=3042Itemid=66 http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=3042Itemid=66
Re: H14 is out !
Maya has recently got pretty close to catching up to XSI 5 and in less than another five or six years Bifrost should be on par with Moondust, and now Houdini has almost caught up to XSI of Lagoa times. By this pace in less than 74 years for Maya, and only a dozen or so for Houdini, we'll be where we would have been next year had Soft not been killed! Totally looking forward to 2026 and 2089! The snow is pretty cool though :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Snow and sand reminds me of lagoa in Softimage on steroids. Go Houdini!
Re: H14 is out !
Love those 2mn videos that makes you up and running in ...2mn. That changes from the 4 hours video tutorials that makes me fall asleep :) Le 15/01/2015 23:36, Jordi Bares Dominguez a écrit : :-) love it jb On 15 Jan 2015, at 22:00, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: Lot's of xsi in there. Shortcuts very similar, edge loop quasi similar. even the LMB RMB and MMB to use X,Y or Z axis remembers of the original SI. Animation layers too. Position solver makes me thinks of lagoa. Still watching the videos. The guys at SideFX did serious homeworks imho. Le 15/01/2015 22:44, Sebastien Sterling a écrit : Have any of the Softy Houdini converts noticed new features you requested ? On 15 January 2015 at 21:08, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr mailto:olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=3042Itemid=66
RE: H14 is out !
Exactly Mr. Fregtman. The Polygonizer stayed in its initial release at ADSK. The tremendous work, Eric Mootz did with the Polygonizer to develop it further and make it a really outstanding work in that area was of no attention for ADSK. Not to mention the other plugins he developed. ADSK bought or licensed some of it in an early stage, incorporated it in a giving software and that's it. Polygonizer was kept in version 1.0 for Softimage by ADSK. Same happenend to Lagoa at version 1.0 as well. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alan Fregtman Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 12:59 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: H14 is out ! As I recall when Lagoa's ICE-based multiphysics simulator first released with Softimage it was not bought, but licensed. Same thing with Mootz's Polygonizer that AD bundled with Soft. That said, this year AD bought Lagoa Technologies, so now I'd assume they most certainly own it now. On Thu Jan 15 2015 at 6:48:54 PM Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Yeah, Bifrost will never come close to ICE because it's ADSK. Remember what happenend to Lagoa. It was a bomb when it came out in 2010. Thiago Costa did amazing work to release version 1.0 of Lagoa. ADSK bought it and it never get any further attention. It was kept at version 1.0! No further development and Lagoa got buried. I'm not saying that Lagoa is on par with Houdini, it's surely not. But the power of Lagoa got wasted. sven From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Raffaele Fragapane Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 12:34 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: H14 is out ! Maya has recently got pretty close to catching up to XSI 5 and in less than another five or six years Bifrost should be on par with Moondust, and now Houdini has almost caught up to XSI of Lagoa times. By this pace in less than 74 years for Maya, and only a dozen or so for Houdini, we'll be where we would have been next year had Soft not been killed! Totally looking forward to 2026 and 2089! The snow is pretty cool though :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Snow and sand reminds me of lagoa in Softimage on steroids. Go Houdini!
RE: H14 is out !
Snow and sand reminds me of lagoa in Softimage on steroids. Go Houdini! -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of olivier jeannel Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 10:09 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: H14 is out ! http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=3042Itemid=66
RE: H14 is out !
Yeah, Bifrost will never come close to ICE because it's ADSK. Remember what happenend to Lagoa. It was a bomb when it came out in 2010. Thiago Costa did amazing work to release version 1.0 of Lagoa. ADSK bought it and it never get any further attention. It was kept at version 1.0! No further development and Lagoa got buried. I'm not saying that Lagoa is on par with Houdini, it's surely not. But the power of Lagoa got wasted. sven From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Raffaele Fragapane Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 12:34 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: H14 is out ! Maya has recently got pretty close to catching up to XSI 5 and in less than another five or six years Bifrost should be on par with Moondust, and now Houdini has almost caught up to XSI of Lagoa times. By this pace in less than 74 years for Maya, and only a dozen or so for Houdini, we'll be where we would have been next year had Soft not been killed! Totally looking forward to 2026 and 2089! The snow is pretty cool though :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Snow and sand reminds me of lagoa in Softimage on steroids. Go Houdini!
Re: H14 is out !
As I recall when Lagoa's ICE-based multiphysics simulator first released with Softimage it was not bought, but licensed. Same thing with Mootz's Polygonizer that AD bundled with Soft. That said, this year AD bought Lagoa Technologies, so now I'd assume they most certainly own it now. On Thu Jan 15 2015 at 6:48:54 PM Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Yeah, Bifrost will never come close to ICE because it's ADSK. Remember what happenend to Lagoa. It was a bomb when it came out in 2010. Thiago Costa did amazing work to release version 1.0 of Lagoa. ADSK bought it and it never get any further attention. It was kept at version 1.0! No further development and Lagoa got buried. I'm not saying that Lagoa is on par with Houdini, it's surely not. But the power of Lagoa got wasted. sven *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Raffaele Fragapane *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:34 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: H14 is out ! Maya has recently got pretty close to catching up to XSI 5 and in less than another five or six years Bifrost should be on par with Moondust, and now Houdini has almost caught up to XSI of Lagoa times. By this pace in less than 74 years for Maya, and only a dozen or so for Houdini, we'll be where we would have been next year had Soft not been killed! Totally looking forward to 2026 and 2089! The snow is pretty cool though :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Snow and sand reminds me of lagoa in Softimage on steroids. Go Houdini!
Re: H14 is out !
Yeah, great to see XSI characteristics finding a dignified environment to streamline productivity. On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan Fregtman alan.fregt...@gmail.com wrote: As I recall when Lagoa's ICE-based multiphysics simulator first released with Softimage it was not bought, but licensed. Same thing with Mootz's Polygonizer that AD bundled with Soft. That said, this year AD bought Lagoa Technologies, so now I'd assume they most certainly own it now. On Thu Jan 15 2015 at 6:48:54 PM Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Yeah, Bifrost will never come close to ICE because it's ADSK. Remember what happenend to Lagoa. It was a bomb when it came out in 2010. Thiago Costa did amazing work to release version 1.0 of Lagoa. ADSK bought it and it never get any further attention. It was kept at version 1.0! No further development and Lagoa got buried. I'm not saying that Lagoa is on par with Houdini, it's surely not. But the power of Lagoa got wasted. sven *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Raffaele Fragapane *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:34 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: H14 is out ! Maya has recently got pretty close to catching up to XSI 5 and in less than another five or six years Bifrost should be on par with Moondust, and now Houdini has almost caught up to XSI of Lagoa times. By this pace in less than 74 years for Maya, and only a dozen or so for Houdini, we'll be where we would have been next year had Soft not been killed! Totally looking forward to 2026 and 2089! The snow is pretty cool though :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Snow and sand reminds me of lagoa in Softimage on steroids. Go Houdini!
RE: H14 is out !
Not only did Autodesk not update Lagoa, Polygonizer, etc..., but they also cited those tools specifically as reasons to kill Softimage claiming they required 5 developers to maintain those tools plus mental ray per release. Matt Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 01:31:20 +0100 From: Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de Subject: RE: H14 is out ! To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Exactly Mr. Fregtman. The Polygonizer stayed in its initial release at ADSK. The tremendous work, Eric Mootz did with the Polygonizer to develop it further and make it a really outstanding work in that area was of no attention for ADSK. Not to mention the other plugins he developed. ADSK bought or licensed some of it in an early stage, incorporated it in a giving software and that's it. Polygonizer was kept in version 1.0 for Softimage by ADSK. Same happenend to Lagoa at version 1.0 as well.
Re: H14 is out !
Did they drop the price too? I'm sure indie and indie engine was about $600 yesterday. Anyway, I never spent $300 s easily!! Anyone else have weird interaction in 14 though? I use a wacom in mouse mode, and the navigation is totaly broken in 14, still fine in 13. Anyone? G On 16/01/2015 07:14, Matt Lind wrote: Not only did Autodesk not update Lagoa, Polygonizer, etc..., but they also cited those tools specifically as reasons to kill Softimage claiming they required 5 developers to maintain those tools plus mental ray per release. Matt Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 01:31:20 +0100 From: Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de Subject: RE: H14 is out ! To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Exactly Mr. Fregtman. The Polygonizer stayed in its initial release at ADSK. The tremendous work, Eric Mootz did with the Polygonizer to develop it further and make it a really outstanding work in that area was of no attention for ADSK. Not to mention the other plugins he developed. ADSK bought or licensed some of it in an early stage, incorporated it in a giving software and that's it. Polygonizer was kept in version 1.0 for Softimage by ADSK. Same happenend to Lagoa at version 1.0 as well.
Re: H14 is out !
where are the 2 min videos ? On 16 January 2015 at 00:31, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Exactly Mr. Fregtman. The Polygonizer stayed in its initial release at ADSK. The tremendous work, Eric Mootz did with the Polygonizer to develop it further and make it a really outstanding work in that area was of no attention for ADSK. Not to mention the other plugins he developed. ADSK bought or licensed some of it in an early stage, incorporated it in a giving software and that’s it. Polygonizer was kept in version 1.0 for Softimage by ADSK. Same happenend to Lagoa at version 1.0 as well. *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Alan Fregtman *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:59 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: H14 is out ! As I recall when Lagoa's ICE-based multiphysics simulator first released with Softimage it was not bought, but licensed. Same thing with Mootz's Polygonizer that AD bundled with Soft. That said, this year AD bought Lagoa Technologies, so now I'd assume they most certainly own it now. On Thu Jan 15 2015 at 6:48:54 PM Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Yeah, Bifrost will never come close to ICE because it's ADSK. Remember what happenend to Lagoa. It was a bomb when it came out in 2010. Thiago Costa did amazing work to release version 1.0 of Lagoa. ADSK bought it and it never get any further attention. It was kept at version 1.0! No further development and Lagoa got buried. I'm not saying that Lagoa is on par with Houdini, it's surely not. But the power of Lagoa got wasted. sven *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Raffaele Fragapane *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:34 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: H14 is out ! Maya has recently got pretty close to catching up to XSI 5 and in less than another five or six years Bifrost should be on par with Moondust, and now Houdini has almost caught up to XSI of Lagoa times. By this pace in less than 74 years for Maya, and only a dozen or so for Houdini, we'll be where we would have been next year had Soft not been killed! Totally looking forward to 2026 and 2089! The snow is pretty cool though :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Snow and sand reminds me of lagoa in Softimage on steroids. Go Houdini!
Re: H14 is out !
THX Perry ;) On 16 January 2015 at 01:12, Perry Harovas perryharo...@gmail.com wrote: https://vimeo.com/goprocedural On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 8:07 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: where are the 2 min videos ? On 16 January 2015 at 00:31, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Exactly Mr. Fregtman. The Polygonizer stayed in its initial release at ADSK. The tremendous work, Eric Mootz did with the Polygonizer to develop it further and make it a really outstanding work in that area was of no attention for ADSK. Not to mention the other plugins he developed. ADSK bought or licensed some of it in an early stage, incorporated it in a giving software and that’s it. Polygonizer was kept in version 1.0 for Softimage by ADSK. Same happenend to Lagoa at version 1.0 as well. *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Alan Fregtman *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:59 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: H14 is out ! As I recall when Lagoa's ICE-based multiphysics simulator first released with Softimage it was not bought, but licensed. Same thing with Mootz's Polygonizer that AD bundled with Soft. That said, this year AD bought Lagoa Technologies, so now I'd assume they most certainly own it now. On Thu Jan 15 2015 at 6:48:54 PM Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Yeah, Bifrost will never come close to ICE because it's ADSK. Remember what happenend to Lagoa. It was a bomb when it came out in 2010. Thiago Costa did amazing work to release version 1.0 of Lagoa. ADSK bought it and it never get any further attention. It was kept at version 1.0! No further development and Lagoa got buried. I'm not saying that Lagoa is on par with Houdini, it's surely not. But the power of Lagoa got wasted. sven *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Raffaele Fragapane *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:34 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: H14 is out ! Maya has recently got pretty close to catching up to XSI 5 and in less than another five or six years Bifrost should be on par with Moondust, and now Houdini has almost caught up to XSI of Lagoa times. By this pace in less than 74 years for Maya, and only a dozen or so for Houdini, we'll be where we would have been next year had Soft not been killed! Totally looking forward to 2026 and 2089! The snow is pretty cool though :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Snow and sand reminds me of lagoa in Softimage on steroids. Go Houdini! -- Perry Harovas Animation and Visual Effects http://www.TheAfterImage.com http://www.theafterimage.com/ -25 Years Experience -Member of the Visual Effects Society (VES)
Re: H14 is out !
https://vimeo.com/goprocedural On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 8:07 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: where are the 2 min videos ? On 16 January 2015 at 00:31, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Exactly Mr. Fregtman. The Polygonizer stayed in its initial release at ADSK. The tremendous work, Eric Mootz did with the Polygonizer to develop it further and make it a really outstanding work in that area was of no attention for ADSK. Not to mention the other plugins he developed. ADSK bought or licensed some of it in an early stage, incorporated it in a giving software and that’s it. Polygonizer was kept in version 1.0 for Softimage by ADSK. Same happenend to Lagoa at version 1.0 as well. *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Alan Fregtman *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:59 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: H14 is out ! As I recall when Lagoa's ICE-based multiphysics simulator first released with Softimage it was not bought, but licensed. Same thing with Mootz's Polygonizer that AD bundled with Soft. That said, this year AD bought Lagoa Technologies, so now I'd assume they most certainly own it now. On Thu Jan 15 2015 at 6:48:54 PM Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Yeah, Bifrost will never come close to ICE because it's ADSK. Remember what happenend to Lagoa. It was a bomb when it came out in 2010. Thiago Costa did amazing work to release version 1.0 of Lagoa. ADSK bought it and it never get any further attention. It was kept at version 1.0! No further development and Lagoa got buried. I'm not saying that Lagoa is on par with Houdini, it's surely not. But the power of Lagoa got wasted. sven *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Raffaele Fragapane *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:34 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: H14 is out ! Maya has recently got pretty close to catching up to XSI 5 and in less than another five or six years Bifrost should be on par with Moondust, and now Houdini has almost caught up to XSI of Lagoa times. By this pace in less than 74 years for Maya, and only a dozen or so for Houdini, we'll be where we would have been next year had Soft not been killed! Totally looking forward to 2026 and 2089! The snow is pretty cool though :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Snow and sand reminds me of lagoa in Softimage on steroids. Go Houdini! -- Perry Harovas Animation and Visual Effects http://www.TheAfterImage.com http://www.theafterimage.com/ -25 Years Experience -Member of the Visual Effects Society (VES)
RE: H14 is out !
That was part of their agreement, this way he could continue to develop it, continue to make money off of it and license the newer version in the future. It would be different if autodesk hired him and said he couldnt develop the software anymore. We got best of both, a usable tool with basic functionality for our maintenance costs and if we needed more power we pay a little more to Eric *written with my thumbs On Jan 15, 2015 4:31 PM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Exactly Mr. Fregtman. The Polygonizer stayed in its initial release at ADSK. The tremendous work, Eric Mootz did with the Polygonizer to develop it further and make it a really outstanding work in that area was of no attention for ADSK. Not to mention the other plugins he developed. ADSK bought or licensed some of it in an early stage, incorporated it in a giving software and that’s it. Polygonizer was kept in version 1.0 for Softimage by ADSK. Same happenend to Lagoa at version 1.0 as well. *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Alan Fregtman *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:59 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: H14 is out ! As I recall when Lagoa's ICE-based multiphysics simulator first released with Softimage it was not bought, but licensed. Same thing with Mootz's Polygonizer that AD bundled with Soft. That said, this year AD bought Lagoa Technologies, so now I'd assume they most certainly own it now. On Thu Jan 15 2015 at 6:48:54 PM Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Yeah, Bifrost will never come close to ICE because it's ADSK. Remember what happenend to Lagoa. It was a bomb when it came out in 2010. Thiago Costa did amazing work to release version 1.0 of Lagoa. ADSK bought it and it never get any further attention. It was kept at version 1.0! No further development and Lagoa got buried. I'm not saying that Lagoa is on par with Houdini, it's surely not. But the power of Lagoa got wasted. sven *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Raffaele Fragapane *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:34 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: H14 is out ! Maya has recently got pretty close to catching up to XSI 5 and in less than another five or six years Bifrost should be on par with Moondust, and now Houdini has almost caught up to XSI of Lagoa times. By this pace in less than 74 years for Maya, and only a dozen or so for Houdini, we'll be where we would have been next year had Soft not been killed! Totally looking forward to 2026 and 2089! The snow is pretty cool though :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Sven Constable sixsi_l...@imagefront.de wrote: Snow and sand reminds me of lagoa in Softimage on steroids. Go Houdini!
