RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
No problem. I can fully appreciate where you are. I remember stepping right out of Soft3D into Maya back in the late 90s setting up my scene the same way I did in Soft3D. It was stressful. Nothing seemed to make sense. I was generating move files at one point to export ascii transform data back and forth to SI3D and you could see the real numbers and nothing lined up like it was supposed to. At some point you get to an understanding of what pivots are in Maya but conclude it is just not worth the hassle to try and translate or even use them. Incidentally you deal with other issues because of it, solely inside Maya, namely the replacement of geometry or other object with new structures and realize quickly having everything zeroed out is faster and easier than trying to leverage Maya pivots in any way. So you end up building all your objects at world center, null parent and reposition, etc. Need to fix a deep subobject? Just modify it, replace the old geometry with the new, zero out all transforms and it goes right where it belongs. Simple as that. -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 12:10 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I do concur on the sheer insanity bit - total madness. When I think of the countless hours I have wasted on this gem trying to fix pivots so I could get proper subframe positions/rotations for various purposes my mind goes numb. You would think that Maya would reinterpret the numbers for export to more sane packages I will relay your advice to our Maya artist who will have to fix this one - it is way beyond me. Thanks for the indepth explanation - this has really bugged me on many occasions. Morten Den 8. april 2015 kl. 18:02 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.govmailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: -- -- Yeah, unfortunately you have to build your initial rig to insure that all rotate or scale pivots remain 1:1. You can use minimal null hierarchy to accomplish this. The idea is that if you leave Maya, it has to be prepped in a way that prevents the “Maya paradigm” from clubbing it. You learn very quickly to complete toss the “Maya pivot” concept because few other apps work this way. Maya pivots work fine and it’s safe to alter pivots if you remain in Maya, but you have to accept this Maya “reality”. People who have only ever worked in Maya are insulated. They figure out the path of least resistance if they use pivots and understand it the Maya way. But for just about everyone else, it’s sheer insanity. Cascade the nulls (empty groups) and you have full unfettered control and it’s never a problem physically or conceptually. Incidentally there are other reasons to do this, in particular Maya rotation order which can be changed. Its an older TAV concept that continued on to Maya. While it’s possible to understand this if you do it all the time, mentally switching back and forth between different apps and then trying to decipher Maya pivots isn’t worth the wasted brain cells. -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:51 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I get the idea, thanks. So to fix this I will have to build a new rig where locators are translated and then parented!? Is there no way to get proper world positions for pivots that are moved the way you described? MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:45 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.govmailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov : -- -- To ty to explain better Create a new scene in Maya Create a locator Make sure it is selected Hit the W key (for transform) Hit the Insert key (you are now editing the pivot) Move the pivot around Note that the object XYZ position is still the same in the channel box even after you moved the pivot. This is how Maya works. Position remains the same, pivot rotation is isolated from transform position. When other app try to interpret this they get confused and can’t really always translate
RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
I think I understand what you are saying, but I am not sure I get the cascade thing. Do you mean rebuild the hierarchy properly? MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:37 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: Maya pivots are not like Soft Centres. They don’t equate and aren’t really the same thing. In Maya when you alter pivot “position” is seems much like a hack. The pivot can be moved but it still says that it is zero local to the geometry. Regerdless where you put the pivot, its always zero to the geometry. Soft is reading it right. Yeah I know, you can move the pivot and all that but’s not a 1:1 relationship to position like Soft is. That’s why its always a really bad idea to move the pivot in Maya. Best way to set of the same thing in Maya is cascade nulls or locators. Things will always be relative meaning pivots will always reflect exactly where the object is. -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: Morten Bartholdy [mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk] Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:29 AM To: Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions There you got me - it was animated by an offsite Maya artist so I don't know but will ask. I don't know enough Maya to check. MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:21 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov : -- -- Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [ mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com ] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
Re: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
One thing would be to make sure the rigger doesn't change the pivots from the data that he gets from you. Either that or you need to update the assets that you're applying the cache on, to match. Eric T. On 4/8/2015 12:02 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] wrote: Yeah, unfortunately you have to build your initial rig to insure that all rotate or scale pivots remain 1:1. You can use minimal null hierarchy to accomplish this. The idea is that if you leave Maya, it has to be prepped in a way that prevents the “Maya paradigm” from clubbing it. You learn very quickly to complete toss the “Maya pivot” concept because few other apps work this way. Maya pivots work fine and it’s safe to alter pivots if you remain in Maya, but you have to accept this Maya “reality”. People who have only ever worked in Maya are insulated. They figure out the path of least resistance if they use pivots and understand it the Maya way. But for just about everyone else, it’s sheer insanity. Cascade the nulls (empty groups) and you have full unfettered control and it’s never a problem physically or conceptually. Incidentally there are other reasons to do this, in particular Maya rotation order which can be changed. Its an older TAV concept that continued on to Maya. While it’s possible to understand this if you do it all the time, mentally switching back and forth between different apps and then trying to decipher Maya pivots isn’t worth the wasted brain cells. -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. *From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Morten Bartholdy *Sent:* Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:51 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I get the idea, thanks. So to fix this I will have to build a new rig where locators are translated and then parented!? Is there no way to get proper world positions for pivots that are moved the way you described? MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:45 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: -- -- To ty to explain better Create a new scene in Maya Create a locator Make sure it is selected Hit the W key (for transform) Hit the Insert key (you are now editing the pivot) Move the pivot around Note that the object XYZ position is still the same in the channel box even after you moved the pivot. This is how Maya works. Position remains the same, pivot rotation is isolated from transform position. When other app try to interpret this they get confused and can’t really always translate -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. *From: *Morten Bartholdy [mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk] *Sent:* Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:29 AM *To:* Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] *Subject:* RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions There you got me - it was animated by an offsite Maya artist so I don't know but will ask. I don't know enough Maya to check. MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:21 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: -- -- Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. *From: *softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Morten Bartholdy *Sent: *Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM *To: *softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject: *Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour
Re: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
Well the geometry is some 55 millions tris taking 1,3 GB so I am actually only trying to move the animated rig and reconstrain to a refmodel in Soft. The animated rig consists of locators and curves with shapes showing how they are supposed to move - translate and rotate. So I guess the first scenario you mention applies. MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:32 skrev Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com: geometry in Softimage or are you pulling geometry and point / transform caches in? Eric T. On 4/8/2015 11:28 AM, Mirko Jankovic wrote: IM right now rendering BUNCH of scenes from Maya in SI, and alembic is your friend! On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov wrote: Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com ] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
Yes, make a new null for every position/pivot offset you need. Leave the actual pivots alone. Null_Position Null_position_offset Null_Rotate Null_whatever Null_geometry Animate null position directly to the curve. As long as all pivots are unaffected or unchanged everything remains 1:1 -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:44 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I think I understand what you are saying, but I am not sure I get the cascade thing. Do you mean rebuild the hierarchy properly? MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:37 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.govmailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: -- -- Maya pivots are not like Soft Centres. They don’t equate and aren’t really the same thing. In Maya when you alter pivot “position” is seems much like a hack. The pivot can be moved but it still says that it is zero local to the geometry. Regerdless where you put the pivot, its always zero to the geometry. Soft is reading it right. Yeah I know, you can move the pivot and all that but’s not a 1:1 relationship to position like Soft is. That’s why its always a really bad idea to move the pivot in Maya. Best way to set of the same thing in Maya is cascade nulls or locators. Things will always be relative meaning pivots will always reflect exactly where the object is. -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: Morten Bartholdy [mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk] Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:29 AM To: Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions There you got me - it was animated by an offsite Maya artist so I don't know but will ask. I don't know enough Maya to check. MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:21 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.govmailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov : -- -- Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [ mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com ] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
I get the idea, thanks. So to fix this I will have to build a new rig where locators are translated and then parented!? Is there no way to get proper world positions for pivots that are moved the way you described? MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:45 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: To ty to explain better Create a new scene in Maya Create a locator Make sure it is selected Hit the W key (for transform) Hit the Insert key (you are now editing the pivot) Move the pivot around Note that the object XYZ position is still the same in the channel box even after you moved the pivot. This is how Maya works. Position remains the same, pivot rotation is isolated from transform position. When other app try to interpret this they get confused and can’t really always translate -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: Morten Bartholdy [mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk] Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:29 AM To: Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions There you got me - it was animated by an offsite Maya artist so I don't know but will ask. I don't know enough Maya to check. MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:21 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: -- -- Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
Right - I guess I will have to bug our Maya artist for this one. Thanks Joey. MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:47 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: Yes, make a new null for every position/pivot offset you need. Leave the actual pivots alone. Null_Position Null_position_offset Null_Rotate Null_whatever Null_geometry Animate null position directly to the curve. As long as all pivots are unaffected or unchanged everything remains 1:1 -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:44 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I think I understand what you are saying, but I am not sure I get the cascade thing. Do you mean rebuild the hierarchy properly? MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:37 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov : -- -- Maya pivots are not like Soft Centres. They don’t equate and aren’t really the same thing. In Maya when you alter pivot “position” is seems much like a hack. The pivot can be moved but it still says that it is zero local to the geometry. Regerdless where you put the pivot, its always zero to the geometry. Soft is reading it right. Yeah I know, you can move the pivot and all that but’s not a 1:1 relationship to position like Soft is. That’s why its always a really bad idea to move the pivot in Maya. Best way to set of the same thing in Maya is cascade nulls or locators. Things will always be relative meaning pivots will always reflect exactly where the object is. -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: Morten Bartholdy [ mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk ] Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:29 AM To: Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions There you got me - it was animated by an offsite Maya artist so I don't know but will ask. I don't know enough Maya to check. MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:21 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov : -- -- Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [ mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com ] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
Yeah, unfortunately you have to build your initial rig to insure that all rotate or scale pivots remain 1:1. You can use minimal null hierarchy to accomplish this. The idea is that if you leave Maya, it has to be prepped in a way that prevents the “Maya paradigm” from clubbing it. You learn very quickly to complete toss the “Maya pivot” concept because few other apps work this way. Maya pivots work fine and it’s safe to alter pivots if you remain in Maya, but you have to accept this Maya “reality”. People who have only ever worked in Maya are insulated. They figure out the path of least resistance if they use pivots and understand it the Maya way. But for just about everyone else, it’s sheer insanity. Cascade the nulls (empty groups) and you have full unfettered control and it’s never a problem physically or conceptually. Incidentally there are other reasons to do this, in particular Maya rotation order which can be changed. Its an older TAV concept that continued on to Maya. While it’s possible to understand this if you do it all the time, mentally switching back and forth between different apps and then trying to decipher Maya pivots isn’t worth the wasted brain cells. -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:51 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I get the idea, thanks. So to fix this I will have to build a new rig where locators are translated and then parented!? Is there no way to get proper world positions for pivots that are moved the way you described? MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:45 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.govmailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: -- -- To ty to explain better Create a new scene in Maya Create a locator Make sure it is selected Hit the W key (for transform) Hit the Insert key (you are now editing the pivot) Move the pivot around Note that the object XYZ position is still the same in the channel box even after you moved the pivot. This is how Maya works. Position remains the same, pivot rotation is isolated from transform position. When other app try to interpret this they get confused and can’t really always translate -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: Morten Bartholdy [mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk] Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:29 AM To: Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions There you got me - it was animated by an offsite Maya artist so I don't know but will ask. I don't know enough Maya to check. MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:21 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.govmailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: -- -- Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
I do concur on the sheer insanity bit - total madness. When I think of the countless hours I have wasted on this gem trying to fix pivots so I could get proper subframe positions/rotations for various purposes my mind goes numb. You would think that Maya would reinterpret the numbers for export to more sane packages I will relay your advice to our Maya artist who will have to fix this one - it is way beyond me. Thanks for the indepth explanation - this has really bugged me on many occasions. Morten Den 8. april 2015 kl. 18:02 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: Yeah, unfortunately you have to build your initial rig to insure that all rotate or scale pivots remain 1:1. You can use minimal null hierarchy to accomplish this. The idea is that if you leave Maya, it has to be prepped in a way that prevents the “Maya paradigm” from clubbing it. You learn very quickly to complete toss the “Maya pivot” concept because few other apps work this way. Maya pivots work fine and it’s safe to alter pivots if you remain in Maya, but you have to accept this Maya “reality”. People who have only ever worked in Maya are insulated. They figure out the path of least resistance if they use pivots and understand it the Maya way. But for just about everyone else, it’s sheer insanity. Cascade the nulls (empty groups) and you have full unfettered control and it’s never a problem physically or conceptually. Incidentally there are other reasons to do this, in particular Maya rotation order which can be changed. Its an older TAV concept that continued on to Maya. While it’s possible to understand this if you do it all the time, mentally switching back and forth between different apps and then trying to decipher Maya pivots isn’t worth the wasted brain cells. -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:51 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I get the idea, thanks. So to fix this I will have to build a new rig where locators are translated and then parented!? Is there no way to get proper world positions for pivots that are moved the way you described? MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:45 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov : -- -- To ty to explain better Create a new scene in Maya Create a locator Make sure it is selected Hit the W key (for transform) Hit the Insert key (you are now editing the pivot) Move the pivot around Note that the object XYZ position is still the same in the channel box even after you moved the pivot. This is how Maya works. Position remains the same, pivot rotation is isolated from transform position. When other app try to interpret this they get confused and can’t really always translate -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: Morten Bartholdy [ mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk ] Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:29 AM To: Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] Subject: RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions There you got me - it was animated by an offsite Maya artist so I don't know but will ask. I don't know enough Maya to check. MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:21 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov : -- -- Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [ mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com ] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM
Re: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
Is this using Alembic? Eric T. On Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08:09 AM, Morten Bartholdy wrote: I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
Re: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
Yea would say the same as Eric. Try using Alembic instead. 2015-04-08 17:17 GMT+02:00 Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com: Is this using Alembic? Eric T. On Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08:09 AM, Morten Bartholdy wrote: I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
Re: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
IM right now rendering BUNCH of scenes from Maya in SI, and alembic is your friend! On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov wrote: Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Morten Bartholdy *Sent:* Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
Re: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
Are you applying a cache to existing geometry in Softimage or are you pulling geometry and point / transform caches in? Eric T. On 4/8/2015 11:28 AM, Mirko Jankovic wrote: IM right now rendering BUNCH of scenes from Maya in SI, and alembic is your friend! On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov mailto:j.ponthi...@nasa.gov wrote: Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. *From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Morten Bartholdy *Sent:* Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
RE: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
I am not familiar with Maya - an offsite Maya artist rigged and animated this, but when I look in Maya and select a child node which is clearly offset in space from its parent, only preselected SRT values are visible in the panel on the right, and they say zero for x and y for instance when the object is clearly elsewhere in global space. I guess this is some Maya version of having zeroed values for initial positions and rotations, and it might be the culpit. It makes sense for animation, but how do I get proper global values over so the pivot stays where it need to be? MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:21 skrev Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] j.ponthi...@nasa.gov: Are your locator pivots at zero local to the pivot geometry? Or have you modified them in some way? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) MYMIC Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Morten Bartholdy Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions I am moving a number of scenes animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
Re: Maya to Soft f*cks up pivot positions
Alembic does the same thing - all pivots at the parent pivot. MB Den 8. april 2015 kl. 17:20 skrev Mario Reitbauer cont...@marioreitbauer.at: Yea would say the same as Eric. Try using Alembic instead. 2015-04-08 17:17 GMT+02:00 Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com mailto:ethivie...@hybride.com : Eric T. On Wednesday, April 08, 2015 11:08:09 AM, Morten Bartholdy wrote: animated in Maya to Soft for shading and rendering, but am running into the old problem of hierarchial rig having all pivots on child nodes moving to the center of the parent locator/Null. I thought this behaviour was when using groups instead of proper hierarchy in Maya, but now I see it with hierarchy too. Does some smart Maya savvy person here perhaps know how to fix this one? I have tried FBX and Collada with same dismal results. The rig is really simple - just curves and locators - no fancy bones, expressions or constraints. Thanks. Morten
