Re: Password Manager in SeaMonkey 2.53.2

[Frog]

On 5/19/2020 2:47 PM, mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote:

Frog wrote:

On 5/18/2020 10:00 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

Frog wrote:
How do you make SeaMonkey ask whether or not your want Password 
Manager to save a password?


Frog


You aren't getting asked when you log into a site for the first time?

I just logged into my mozillaZine account for the first time and was 
asked if I wanted to save the username and password.



I should have told you where I was having my problem in my earlier 
message.  The problem is...the first time I previously used a new 
password on my system it would ask me if I wanted to save my password 
(subsequently recorded in Password Manager if I click yes).  The 
asking about saving new passwords no longer occurs. I'm trying to 
understand why this is occurring and how to fix this problem.


FYI, Password Manager is a lifesaver to me when it comes my 
forgetfulness of many things including passwords.


Saving passwords doesn't work for some websites, depending on how 
they're coded.  Some web developers seem to consider that a feature and 
deliberately do everything they can to stop password managers 
recognising and filling in their password fields - it's almost like they 
want you to reuse a short, easily remembered (and easily guessed) 
password rather than one which is unique, complex and difficult to guess!


Thanks to all for your help.  I believe I know one such web site that 
does not want you to use a Password Manager for your 
password...Facebook.  I am ready to say Uncle on this one and put up 
with what I have to do in order to use their software.


Frog
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Re: Password Manager in SeaMonkey 2.53.2

[mozilla-lists . mbourne]

Frog wrote:

On 5/18/2020 10:00 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

Frog wrote:
How do you make SeaMonkey ask whether or not your want Password 
Manager to save a password?


Frog


You aren't getting asked when you log into a site for the first time?

I just logged into my mozillaZine account for the first time and was 
asked if I wanted to save the username and password.



I should have told you where I was having my problem in my earlier 
message.  The problem is...the first time I previously used a new 
password on my system it would ask me if I wanted to save my password 
(subsequently recorded in Password Manager if I click yes).  The asking 
about saving new passwords no longer occurs. I'm trying to understand 
why this is occurring and how to fix this problem.


FYI, Password Manager is a lifesaver to me when it comes my 
forgetfulness of many things including passwords.


Saving passwords doesn't work for some websites, depending on how 
they're coded.  Some web developers seem to consider that a feature and 
deliberately do everything they can to stop password managers 
recognising and filling in their password fields - it's almost like they 
want you to reuse a short, easily remembered (and easily guessed) 
password rather than one which is unique, complex and difficult to guess!


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Re: Password Manager in SeaMonkey 2.53.2

[WaltS48]

On 5/19/20 5:12 AM, Daniel wrote:

WaltS48 wrote on 19/05/2020 2:47 AM:

On 5/18/20 12:41 PM, EE wrote:

Frog wrote:
How do you make SeaMonkey ask whether or not your want Password 
Manager to save a password?


Frog

When you log in somewhere, it does that auromatically.


Aromatically?


Was your differently mis-spelling of EE's mis-spelt word deliberate, 
Walt?? ;-P




Of course!

Just trying to get a clarification of what EE meant by auromatically 
which my spell checker flags as a misspelled word.;)


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Re: Password Manager in SeaMonkey 2.53.2

[Daniel]

WaltS48 wrote on 19/05/2020 2:47 AM:

On 5/18/20 12:41 PM, EE wrote:

Frog wrote:
How do you make SeaMonkey ask whether or not your want Password 
Manager to save a password?


Frog

When you log in somewhere, it does that auromatically.


Aromatically?


Was your differently mis-spelling of EE's mis-spelt word deliberate, 
Walt?? ;-P


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Re: Password Manager in SeaMonkey 2.53.2

[Frog]

On 5/18/2020 10:00 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

Frog wrote:
How do you make SeaMonkey ask whether or not your want Password 
Manager to save a password?


Frog


You aren't getting asked when you log into a site for the first time?

I just logged into my mozillaZine account for the first time and was 
asked if I wanted to save the username and password.



I should have told you where I was having my problem in my earlier 
message.  The problem is...the first time I previously used a new 
password on my system it would ask me if I wanted to save my password 
(subsequently recorded in Password Manager if I click yes).  The asking 
about saving new passwords no longer occurs. I'm trying to understand 
why this is occurring and how to fix this problem.


FYI, Password Manager is a lifesaver to me when it comes my 
forgetfulness of many things including passwords.


Frog
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Re: Password Manager in SeaMonkey 2.53.2

[WaltS48]

On 5/18/20 12:41 PM, EE wrote:

Frog wrote:
How do you make SeaMonkey ask whether or not your want Password 
Manager to save a password?


Frog

When you log in somewhere, it does that auromatically.



Aromatically?
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Re: Password Manager in SeaMonkey 2.53.2

[EE]

Frog wrote:
How do you make SeaMonkey ask whether or not your want Password Manager 
to save a password?


Frog

When you log in somewhere, it does that auromatically.

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Re: Password Manager in SeaMonkey 2.53.2

[WaltS48]

Frog wrote:
How do you make SeaMonkey ask whether or not your want Password Manager 
to save a password?


Frog


You aren't getting asked when you log into a site for the first time?

I just logged into my mozillaZine account for the first time and was 
asked if I wanted to save the username and password.

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Re: Password manager New, Edit, Clone

[Rubens via support-seamonkey]

Ray Davison wrote on 06/05/2020 01:59:

Password manager New, Edit, Clone

I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

It seems to me that a long time ago at least one or more of those functions did work.  
For a long time now, "New" is a active button, but there doesn't seem to be any 
code behind it.  It just clicks, and nothing.  Edit and Clone are greyed out.

Is this thing supposed to work?

TY

Ray



I am using the "Classic Password Editor 1.1.2" extension, converted 
(chrome://amobrowsing/content/versions.html?host=addons.thunderbird.net=866823=false)
in Seamonkey 2.49.5 and it is working perfectly.

RF

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Re: Password manager New, Edit, Clone

[Daniel]

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote on 7/05/2020 8:04 PM:

Daniel wrote:




That's what I suspected (the problem was with the Add-on, not with SM 
2.49.5 itself), but thanks for confirming, FRG.


As Ray is, apparently, still using 2.49.5, would you really bother 
putting out a fix (2.49.6??) or just check if the Add-on, Saved 
Passwords, works with 2.53.2 or whatever the latest is??


Meant more an easy fix in the add-on code. 2.49.5 is and will be the 
last ESR52 based version. It is dead Jim. But might also be a problem 
carried over to 2.53.x so this might be fixed if the defect is in the 
SeaMonkey code.


FRG


(I was going to tell you 'I'm not "Jim"", but then I remember that that 
was a line from a film .. or was it Startrek??)


I did read, one of the other responders (Mr Ed or Don, was it??) stated 
that it was functional in 2.53.2, though a later Add-on version!


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Re: Password manager New, Edit, Clone

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

Daniel wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote on 6/05/2020 8:24 PM:

Daniel wrote:

Ray Davison wrote on 6/05/2020 9:59 AM:

Password manager New, Edit, Clone

I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

It seems to me that a long time ago at least one or more of those 
functions did work.  For a long time now, "New" is a active button, but 
there doesn't seem to be any code behind it.  It just clicks, and 
nothing.  Edit and Clone are greyed out.


Is this thing supposed to work?

TY

Ray


Ray, where are these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons that you refer to??

In my Win7 SM 2.49.5 (check sig file), if I go to Tools -> Password Manager 
-> Manage Stored Passwords, I don't see these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons.


Are they something installed by your "Saved Password" add-on??



 > I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

Seems the add-on no longer works. I would look into the error log and see if 
messages are logged there for it during startup on when you click a button. 
Might be an easy fixer or not.


FRG
That's what I suspected (the problem was with the Add-on, not with SM 2.49.5 
itself), but thanks for confirming, FRG.


As Ray is, apparently, still using 2.49.5, would you really bother putting out 
a fix (2.49.6??) or just check if the Add-on, Saved Passwords, works with 
2.53.2 or whatever the latest is??




Meant more an easy fix in the add-on code. 2.49.5 is and will be the last 
ESR52 based version. It is dead Jim. But might also be a problem carried over 
to 2.53.x so this might be fixed if the defect is in the SeaMonkey code.


FRG
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Re: Password manager New, Edit, Clone

[Daniel]

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote on 6/05/2020 8:24 PM:

Daniel wrote:

Ray Davison wrote on 6/05/2020 9:59 AM:

Password manager New, Edit, Clone

I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

It seems to me that a long time ago at least one or more of those 
functions did work.  For a long time now, "New" is a active button, 
but there doesn't seem to be any code behind it.  It just clicks, and 
nothing.  Edit and Clone are greyed out.


Is this thing supposed to work?

TY

Ray


Ray, where are these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons that you refer to??

In my Win7 SM 2.49.5 (check sig file), if I go to Tools -> Password 
Manager -> Manage Stored Passwords, I don't see these "New, Edit, 
Clone" buttons.


Are they something installed by your "Saved Password" add-on??



 > I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

Seems the add-on no longer works. I would look into the error log and 
see if messages are logged there for it during startup on when you click 
a button. Might be an easy fixer or not.


FRG
That's what I suspected (the problem was with the Add-on, not with SM 
2.49.5 itself), but thanks for confirming, FRG.


As Ray is, apparently, still using 2.49.5, would you really bother 
putting out a fix (2.49.6??) or just check if the Add-on, Saved 
Passwords, works with 2.53.2 or whatever the latest is??


--
Daniel

Win7 User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) 
Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.5 Build identifier: 20190609032134


Linux User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) 
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Re: Password manager New, Edit, Clone

[ Mr . Ed  via support-seamonkey]

  
  
On 5/6/2020 1:22 PM, Don Spam's
  Reckless Son wrote:

 Mr. Ed
   wrote:
  
  On 5/6/2020 6:24 AM, Frank-Rainer Grahl
wrote:

Daniel wrote:
  
  Ray Davison wrote on 6/05/2020 9:59
AM:

Password manager New, Edit, Clone
  
  
  I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.
  
  
  It seems to me that a long time ago at least one or more
  of those functions did work.  For a long time now, "New"
  is a active button, but there doesn't seem to be any code
  behind it.  It just clicks, and nothing.  Edit and Clone
  are greyed out.
  
  
  Is this thing supposed to work?
  
  
  TY
  
  
  Ray
  
  

Ray, where are these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons that you
refer to??


In my Win7 SM 2.49.5 (check sig file), if I go to Tools
-> Password Manager -> Manage Stored Passwords, I
don't see these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons.


Are they something installed by your "Saved Password"
add-on??


  
  
  > I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.
  
  
  Seems the add-on no longer works. I would look into the error
  log and see if messages are logged there for it during startup
  on when you click a button. Might be an easy fixer or not.
  
  
  FRG
  


I'm using


* Saved Password Editor 2.9.6
(https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/saved-password-editor/)


Seems to work on with SM 2.53.2


-- 
"This is America!  You can't make a horse

  testify against himself!"  -Mister Ed


  
  
  Ray D is using Seamonkey 2.49.5 (under Windows 7, not that that
  matters).
  
  


  I've been using it since June 2016 - A number of previous versions
  of SM without problems - still working.

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Re: Password manager New, Edit, Clone

[Don Spam's Reckless Son]

 Mr. Ed  wrote:

On 5/6/2020 6:24 AM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Ray Davison wrote on 6/05/2020 9:59 AM:

Password manager New, Edit, Clone

I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

It seems to me that a long time ago at least one or more of those 
functions did work.  For a long time now, "New" is a active button, 
but there doesn't seem to be any code behind it.  It just clicks, 
and nothing.  Edit and Clone are greyed out.


Is this thing supposed to work?

TY

Ray


Ray, where are these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons that you refer to??

In my Win7 SM 2.49.5 (check sig file), if I go to Tools -> Password 
Manager -> Manage Stored Passwords, I don't see these "New, Edit, 
Clone" buttons.


Are they something installed by your "Saved Password" add-on??



> I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

Seems the add-on no longer works. I would look into the error log and 
see if messages are logged there for it during startup on when you 
click a button. Might be an easy fixer or not.


FRG


I'm using

* Saved Password Editor 2.9.6 
(https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/saved-password-editor/)

Seems to work on with SM 2.53.2

--
"This is America!  You can't make a horse
  testify against himself!"  -Mister Ed



Ray D is using Seamonkey 2.49.5 (under Windows 7, not that that matters).

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Re: Password manager New, Edit, Clone

[ Mr . Ed  via support-seamonkey]

  
  
On 5/6/2020 6:24 AM, Frank-Rainer Grahl
  wrote:

Daniel
  wrote:
  
  Ray Davison wrote on 6/05/2020 9:59 AM:

Password manager New, Edit, Clone
  
  
  I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.
  
  
  It seems to me that a long time ago at least one or more of
  those functions did work.  For a long time now, "New" is a
  active button, but there doesn't seem to be any code behind
  it.  It just clicks, and nothing.  Edit and Clone are greyed
  out.
  
  
  Is this thing supposed to work?
  
  
  TY
  
  
  Ray
  
  

Ray, where are these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons that you refer
to??


In my Win7 SM 2.49.5 (check sig file), if I go to Tools ->
Password Manager -> Manage Stored Passwords, I don't see
these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons.


Are they something installed by your "Saved Password" add-on??


  
  
  > I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.
  
  
  Seems the add-on no longer works. I would look into the error log
  and see if messages are logged there for it during startup on when
  you click a button. Might be an easy fixer or not.
  
  
  FRG
  


I'm using 
* Saved Password Editor 2.9.6 (https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/saved-password-editor/)

Seems to work on with SM 2.53.2

-- 
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 testify against himself!"  -Mister Ed
  

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Re: Password manager New, Edit, Clone

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

Daniel wrote:

Ray Davison wrote on 6/05/2020 9:59 AM:

Password manager New, Edit, Clone

I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

It seems to me that a long time ago at least one or more of those functions 
did work.  For a long time now, "New" is a active button, but there doesn't 
seem to be any code behind it.  It just clicks, and nothing.  Edit and Clone 
are greyed out.


Is this thing supposed to work?

TY

Ray


Ray, where are these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons that you refer to??

In my Win7 SM 2.49.5 (check sig file), if I go to Tools -> Password Manager -> 
Manage Stored Passwords, I don't see these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons.


Are they something installed by your "Saved Password" add-on??



> I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

Seems the add-on no longer works. I would look into the error log and see if 
messages are logged there for it during startup on when you click a button. 
Might be an easy fixer or not.


FRG
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Re: Password manager New, Edit, Clone

[Daniel]

Ray Davison wrote on 6/05/2020 9:59 AM:

Password manager New, Edit, Clone

I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

It seems to me that a long time ago at least one or more of those 
functions did work.  For a long time now, "New" is a active button, but 
there doesn't seem to be any code behind it.  It just clicks, and 
nothing.  Edit and Clone are greyed out.


Is this thing supposed to work?

TY

Ray


Ray, where are these "New, Edit, Clone" buttons that you refer to??

In my Win7 SM 2.49.5 (check sig file), if I go to Tools -> Password 
Manager -> Manage Stored Passwords, I don't see these "New, Edit, Clone" 
buttons.


Are they something installed by your "Saved Password" add-on??

--
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Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.5 Build identifier: 20190609032134


Linux User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) 
Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171015235623

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Re: Password manager New, Edit, Clone

[WaltS48]

On 5/5/20 7:59 PM, Ray Davison wrote:

Password manager New, Edit, Clone

I have the built in plus the Saved Passwords add-on.

It seems to me that a long time ago at least one or more of those 
functions did work.  For a long time now, "New" is a active button, but 
there doesn't seem to be any code behind it.  It just clicks, and 
nothing.  Edit and Clone are greyed out.


Is this thing supposed to work?

TY

Ray



What thing are you asking about?

I don't have New, Edit or Clone in the built-in password manager.

So the thing doesn't work.

If you mean the Saved Password Editor extension you need version 1.0.1.



Good Luck!

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Re: Password Manager Quick Question - SM 2.49.1 W10 Pro

[WaltS48]

On 11/14/17 1:05 PM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 11/13/17 4:31 PM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Ray Davison wrote:

bo1953 wrote:

Hello all, I have the above on my desktop and lt, the embedded password manager 
loses PW's at most
upgrades of SM.

I wish to find out what others use for PWM's that are compatible with SM or is 
it I need to look
for one which will work with W10 Pro instead?


I have what is included with SM, but I mostly use Saved Password Editor.

I never loose passwords, or anything else, during an upgrade.  But then I never 
do an upgrade.  I
copy the new version to a new tree, have it share all the previous data, and if 
at some point I
decide I like the new better, I delete the older.

Ray


I use Quick Passwords but it may not work anymore after the major changes that 
are coming to SM.
Does anyone know if Quick Passwords will continue to work in SM in the future.



What major changes?


I don't know. I thought SM was switching over to a new release and some add-ons 
would no longer work
or is that just for Firefox?



Just Firefox for now.

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Re: Password Manager Quick Question - SM 2.49.1 W10 Pro

[Arnie Goetchius]

WaltS48 wrote:
> On 11/13/17 4:31 PM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
>> Ray Davison wrote:
>>> bo1953 wrote:
 Hello all, I have the above on my desktop and lt, the embedded password 
 manager loses PW's at most
 upgrades of SM.

 I wish to find out what others use for PWM's that are compatible with SM 
 or is it I need to look
 for one which will work with W10 Pro instead?
>>>
>>> I have what is included with SM, but I mostly use Saved Password Editor.
>>>
>>> I never loose passwords, or anything else, during an upgrade.  But then I 
>>> never do an upgrade.  I
>>> copy the new version to a new tree, have it share all the previous data, 
>>> and if at some point I
>>> decide I like the new better, I delete the older.
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>> I use Quick Passwords but it may not work anymore after the major changes 
>> that are coming to SM.
>> Does anyone know if Quick Passwords will continue to work in SM in the 
>> future.
>>
> 
> What major changes?
> 
I don't know. I thought SM was switching over to a new release and some add-ons 
would no longer work
or is that just for Firefox?
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Re: Password Manager Quick Question - SM 2.49.1 W10 Pro

[Hawker]

David - are others having this issue as well?
Sounds like for the OP and myself (I am on Win7 not Win10) The built in 
password manager broke on the 2.49 update.
I can go to the password manager and they are all still there, but the 
auto complete is broken.


Does the OP also find the passwords are still in the manage stored 
passwords interface just not auto completing?


On 11/11/2017 12:38 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:


I use the Password Manager that is inherent in SeaMonkey. Some of
the third-party applications store the user's passwords in the cloud,
which I feel is quite risky. Others, I am just not sure of their
integrity and security. Since I have to trust SeaMonkey to handle
logins with both security and integrity, I must then trust SeaMonkey
to store my passwords.


Doesn't really address the OP's question. He's concerned by several 
posts we've seen here about SM forgetting passwords after recent 
upgrades. I, too, would be greatly inconvenienced if SM forgot all those 
nuisance logins that I entrust to it.



As much as I trust SeaMonkey, I still use a lengthy pass-phrase (not
merely a password) as my master password. I also periodically
change the individual passwords for the Web sites of my financial
accounts and certain other critical Web sites.


As a policy, I don't save logins and passwords for financial 
institutions in SM or anywhere else my computer. However, in a separate 
file with a nonobvious name and location, I do save fragments or clues 
to those logins and passwords along with a slew of other unrelated data.


So for a simple example (this isn't a real case), for one of my banks I 
may save the fragment "Yankees," which reminds me to add the fragment 
"rule!!" when I enter it in the website. For another example (again, not 
a real case), I may save "hIOdnV7QT9A_aJvHnZ2dnUU7" (I grabbed this just 
now from your message id) and remember that the login is "hIOdnV7QT9A" 
(the first part) and the password is "_aJvHnZ2dnUU7" (the second part). 
Nothing in the file mentions the institutions or their websites, so it's 
not obvious to anyone else which parts of the mass of data go with what. 
And since what is there is incomplete (the rest being saved in wetware), 
cracking it won't help without the other part.


There are many ways of saving useful reminders (not complete logins or 
passwords) without assuming unreasonable risks.






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Re: Password Manager Quick Question - SM 2.49.1 W10 Pro

[WaltS48]

On 11/13/17 4:31 PM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Ray Davison wrote:

bo1953 wrote:

Hello all, I have the above on my desktop and lt, the embedded password manager 
loses PW's at most
upgrades of SM.

I wish to find out what others use for PWM's that are compatible with SM or is 
it I need to look
for one which will work with W10 Pro instead?


I have what is included with SM, but I mostly use Saved Password Editor.

I never loose passwords, or anything else, during an upgrade.  But then I never 
do an upgrade.  I
copy the new version to a new tree, have it share all the previous data, and if 
at some point I
decide I like the new better, I delete the older.

Ray


I use Quick Passwords but it may not work anymore after the major changes that 
are coming to SM.
Does anyone know if Quick Passwords will continue to work in SM in the future.



What major changes?

--
Go Bills, Steelers, Pitt, Pens and Sabres!
Coexist 
National Popular Vote 
Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop
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Re: Password Manager Quick Question - SM 2.49.1 W10 Pro

[Arnie Goetchius]

Ray Davison wrote:
> bo1953 wrote:
>> Hello all, I have the above on my desktop and lt, the embedded password 
>> manager loses PW's at most
>> upgrades of SM.
>>
>> I wish to find out what others use for PWM's that are compatible with SM or 
>> is it I need to look
>> for one which will work with W10 Pro instead?
> 
> I have what is included with SM, but I mostly use Saved Password Editor.
> 
> I never loose passwords, or anything else, during an upgrade.  But then I 
> never do an upgrade.  I
> copy the new version to a new tree, have it share all the previous data, and 
> if at some point I
> decide I like the new better, I delete the older.
> 
> Ray
> 
I use Quick Passwords but it may not work anymore after the major changes that 
are coming to SM.
Does anyone know if Quick Passwords will continue to work in SM in the future.
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Re: Password Manager Quick Question - SM 2.49.1 W10 Pro

[Ray Davison]

bo1953 wrote:
Hello all, I have the above on my desktop and lt, the embedded password 
manager loses PW's at most upgrades of SM.


I wish to find out what others use for PWM's that are compatible with SM 
or is it I need to look for one which will work with W10 Pro instead?


I have what is included with SM, but I mostly use Saved Password Editor.

I never loose passwords, or anything else, during an upgrade.  But then 
I never do an upgrade.  I copy the new version to a new tree, have it 
share all the previous data, and if at some point I decide I like the 
new better, I delete the older.


Ray

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Re: Password Manager Quick Question - SM 2.49.1 W10 Pro

[David E. Ross]

On 11/11/2017 9:38 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
> David E. Ross wrote:
> 
>> I use the Password Manager that is inherent in SeaMonkey. Some of
>> the third-party applications store the user's passwords in the cloud,
>> which I feel is quite risky. Others, I am just not sure of their
>> integrity and security. Since I have to trust SeaMonkey to handle
>> logins with both security and integrity, I must then trust SeaMonkey
>> to store my passwords.
> 
> Doesn't really address the OP's question. He's concerned by several 
> posts we've seen here about SM forgetting passwords after recent 
> upgrades. I, too, would be greatly inconvenienced if SM forgot all those 
> nuisance logins that I entrust to it.
> 
>> As much as I trust SeaMonkey, I still use a lengthy pass-phrase (not
>> merely a password) as my master password. I also periodically
>> change the individual passwords for the Web sites of my financial
>> accounts and certain other critical Web sites.
> 
> As a policy, I don't save logins and passwords for financial 
> institutions in SM or anywhere else my computer. However, in a separate 
> file with a nonobvious name and location, I do save fragments or clues 
> to those logins and passwords along with a slew of other unrelated data.
> 
> So for a simple example (this isn't a real case), for one of my banks I 
> may save the fragment "Yankees," which reminds me to add the fragment 
> "rule!!" when I enter it in the website. For another example (again, not 
> a real case), I may save "hIOdnV7QT9A_aJvHnZ2dnUU7" (I grabbed this just 
> now from your message id) and remember that the login is "hIOdnV7QT9A" 
> (the first part) and the password is "_aJvHnZ2dnUU7" (the second part). 
> Nothing in the file mentions the institutions or their websites, so it's 
> not obvious to anyone else which parts of the mass of data go with what. 
> And since what is there is incomplete (the rest being saved in wetware), 
> cracking it won't help without the other part.
> 
> There are many ways of saving useful reminders (not complete logins or 
> passwords) without assuming unreasonable risks.
> 

I have never seen SeaMonkey forget a saved password.  I have indeed seen
this problem with Thunderbird.  (I do not use SeaMonkey's mail-news
capability.)  However, I think the problem in Thunderbird was fixed
several versions ago.

-- 
David E. Ross


Am I the only one who noticed the following?
*  President Trump issued executive orders
   that increase health-care costs.
*  The Republicans in Congress propose to
   eliminate itemized deductions for
   health-care costs.
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Re: Password Manager Quick Question - SM 2.49.1 W10 Pro

[Paul B. Gallagher]

David E. Ross wrote:


I use the Password Manager that is inherent in SeaMonkey. Some of
the third-party applications store the user's passwords in the cloud,
which I feel is quite risky. Others, I am just not sure of their
integrity and security. Since I have to trust SeaMonkey to handle
logins with both security and integrity, I must then trust SeaMonkey
to store my passwords.


Doesn't really address the OP's question. He's concerned by several 
posts we've seen here about SM forgetting passwords after recent 
upgrades. I, too, would be greatly inconvenienced if SM forgot all those 
nuisance logins that I entrust to it.



As much as I trust SeaMonkey, I still use a lengthy pass-phrase (not
merely a password) as my master password. I also periodically
change the individual passwords for the Web sites of my financial
accounts and certain other critical Web sites.


As a policy, I don't save logins and passwords for financial 
institutions in SM or anywhere else my computer. However, in a separate 
file with a nonobvious name and location, I do save fragments or clues 
to those logins and passwords along with a slew of other unrelated data.


So for a simple example (this isn't a real case), for one of my banks I 
may save the fragment "Yankees," which reminds me to add the fragment 
"rule!!" when I enter it in the website. For another example (again, not 
a real case), I may save "hIOdnV7QT9A_aJvHnZ2dnUU7" (I grabbed this just 
now from your message id) and remember that the login is "hIOdnV7QT9A" 
(the first part) and the password is "_aJvHnZ2dnUU7" (the second part). 
Nothing in the file mentions the institutions or their websites, so it's 
not obvious to anyone else which parts of the mass of data go with what. 
And since what is there is incomplete (the rest being saved in wetware), 
cracking it won't help without the other part.


There are many ways of saving useful reminders (not complete logins or 
passwords) without assuming unreasonable risks.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
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Re: Password Manager Quick Question - SM 2.49.1 W10 Pro

[David E. Ross]

On 11/11/2017 5:05 AM, bo1953 wrote:
> Hello all, I have the above on my desktop and lt, the embedded password 
> manager loses PW's at most upgrades of SM.
> 
> I wish to find out what others use for PWM's that are compatible with SM 
> or is it I need to look for one which will work with W10 Pro instead?
> 
> TIA - bo1953
> 
> 

I use the Password Manager that is inherent in SeaMonkey.  Some of the
third-party applications store the user's passwords in the cloud, which
I feel is quite risky.  Others, I am just not sure of their integrity
and security.  Since I have to trust SeaMonkey to handle logins with
both security and integrity, I must then trust SeaMonkey to store my
passwords.

As much as I trust SeaMonkey, I still use a lengthy pass-phrase (not
merely a password) as my master password.  I also periodically change
the individual passwords for the Web sites of my financial accounts and
certain other critical Web sites.

-- 
David E. Ross


Am I the only one who noticed the following?
*  President Trump issued executive orders
   that increase health-care costs.
*  The Republicans in Congress propose to
   eliminate itemized deductions for
   health-care costs.
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Re: Password manager crashes SeaMonkey

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

> Something has been changed .

Access to storage was broken in previous versions so naturally its 
slower now because it actually accesses it again.


Doesn't help that every time Data Manager is opened the complete list is 
refreshed 2 times. I looked at it briefly but I think it needs a rewrite 
and switch to asynchronous processing. If SeaMonkey weathers the XUL 
removal storm I will look into it. Not worth it now.


FRG

Ray_Net wrote:

Bob Minchin wrote on 06-02-17 22:29:

As per subject.



I don't have a crash BUT:

When I was in SM 2.40 "data manager" access was in les than a second.
Now with SM 2.46 "data manager" is usuable only after 7 seconds.

Something has been changed .


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Re: Password manager crashes SeaMonkey

[Ray_Net]

Bob Minchin wrote on 06-02-17 22:29:

As per subject.

Seamonkey 2.46
Win XP SP3

As soon as I open up password manager, the application locks up and I 
have to kill it using Cntl Alt Del


Any clues please?

Tia
Bob


I don't have a crash BUT:

When I was in SM 2.40 "data manager" access was in les than a second.
Now with SM 2.46 "data manager" is usuable only after 7 seconds.

Something has been changed .
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Re: [webappsstore.sqlite files ] Re: Password manager crashes SeaMonkey

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

Usually this is used by websites to store offsite data. Sometimes also 
something called supercookies just used to track you.


Under preferences-> Advanced->Offline Web Application you should see if 
something is stored. That can undermine you privacy pretty fast so I 
usually have it disabled. You usually can delete the file. Any needed 
data will be stored again. If unsure move it out of the profile and only 
restore it if you experience problems.


FRG


Ray_Net wrote:
I don't have this problem ...however I see in the profile directory 
those files:

webappsstore.sqlite   43 MB dated 07-02-17 18:33
webappsstore.sqlite-shm 32KB dated 07-02-17 21:59
webappsstore.sqlite-wl 3KB dated 07-02-17 23:35

It looks that those files are used, BUT I never use SM offline.

So what ? Is it a good idea, when SM is not running to delete those 3 
files to gain 43MB ?  I dont know what's inside those files ... So 
better avoid the deletion ?


Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote on 06-02-17 22:55:
So far most problems with a hung data manager (which password manager 
is a part of) seem to point to an obsolete and bloated 
webappsstore.sqlite in your profile. Please close SeaMonkey and rename 
(or delet if you are sure you don't need the data in it) this file. It 
contains offline website storage. Then check again.


FRG


Bob Minchin wrote:

As per subject.

Seamonkey 2.46
Win XP SP3

As soon as I open up password manager, the application locks up and I 
have to kill it using Cntl Alt Del


Any clues please?

Tia
Bob






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Re: Password manager locks up Seamonkey 2.46

[PhillipJones]

Bob Minchin wrote:

As per subject really.

I'm running SM 2.46 which when it checks for updates there are none
reported. (although I see references to 2.48?)
I'm using Win XP SP3 and not proposing to change OS.

Every time I open Password manager it opens with a minimum size new
window and just locks up all SM windows and the only way out is Crtl Alt
Delete.
Rebooting the machine has no effect on the problem.

Any ideas Please

Bob


Don't download it I downloaded the Mac version the other and it crashed 
almost as soon as I clicked the icon and send error reports. So I went 
and download 2.46 and reinstalled and haven't had an issue since.


--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.  "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjones...@comcast.net
http://phillipjones-cet.net/
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Re: [webappsstore.sqlite files ] Re: Password manager crashes SeaMonkey

[Verwayne Greenhoe]

I was having this issue with the SM 2.48 version. If I went to check on a
password, it would lock the browser up tight for several minutes. After
reading about the issue with the 'webappsstore.sqlite' issue, I went into
my profile, opened it, closed down SM, and then changed the name to
webappsstorea.sqlite and the issue went away. If I should ever need it,
it's still there. Other than that, I've little other problems.

Thanks!
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[webappsstore.sqlite files ] Re: Password manager crashes SeaMonkey

[Ray_Net]

I don't have this problem ...however I see in the profile directory 
those files:

webappsstore.sqlite   43 MB dated 07-02-17 18:33
webappsstore.sqlite-shm 32KB dated 07-02-17 21:59
webappsstore.sqlite-wl 3KB dated 07-02-17 23:35

It looks that those files are used, BUT I never use SM offline.

So what ? Is it a good idea, when SM is not running to delete those 3 
files to gain 43MB ?  I dont know what's inside those files ... So 
better avoid the deletion ?


Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote on 06-02-17 22:55:
So far most problems with a hung data manager (which password manager 
is a part of) seem to point to an obsolete and bloated 
webappsstore.sqlite in your profile. Please close SeaMonkey and rename 
(or delet if you are sure you don't need the data in it) this file. It 
contains offline website storage. Then check again.


FRG


Bob Minchin wrote:

As per subject.

Seamonkey 2.46
Win XP SP3

As soon as I open up password manager, the application locks up and I 
have to kill it using Cntl Alt Del


Any clues please?

Tia
Bob




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Re: Password manager crashes SeaMonkey

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

So far most problems with a hung data manager (which password manager is a 
part of) seem to point to an obsolete and bloated webappsstore.sqlite in your 
profile. Please close SeaMonkey and rename (or delet if you are sure you don't 
need the data in it) this file. It contains offline website storage. Then 
check again.


FRG


Bob Minchin wrote:

As per subject.

Seamonkey 2.46
Win XP SP3

As soon as I open up password manager, the application locks up and I have to 
kill it using Cntl Alt Del


Any clues please?

Tia
Bob


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Re: Password Manager improvement request

[David E. Ross]

On 3/22/2016 9:45 AM, Gilles CARINATO wrote:
> May I advise that the "passwords manager" is not operative for the two 
> last versions of Seamonkey 2.39 and 2.40...
> Apparently the "remember" function works, but there is no more display 
> available of the identification codes and  passwords stored.
> 
> Gilles

Since SeaMonkey 2.38 and possibly since SeaMonkey 2.35, the inherent
Password Manager has worked for me with the same functionality that the
Remember Passwords extension gave me in SeaMonkey 2.26.1 (before changes
in Password Manager broke the extension).

-- 
David E. Ross

While many tributes to the late Supreme Court Associate Justice
Antonin Scalia now fill the news media, his legacy was not
necessarily positive.  See my "What Price Order, Mr. Justice Scalia?"
at .
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Re: Password Manager improvement request

[EE]

Gilles CARINATO wrote:

May I advise that the "passwords manager" is not operative for the two
last versions of Seamonkey 2.39 and 2.40...
Apparently the "remember" function works, but there is no more display
available of the identification codes and  passwords stored.

Gilles


It works for me.  I use a bookmark for:
chrome://passwordmgr/content/passwordManager.xul
I do that for convenience to get at the passwords quickly.

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Re: Password Manager improvement request

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

It's likely bad entries in the permissions database. The migration of them in 
2.39 
and 2.40 sometimes didn't work well. You can also currently kill the Data 
Manager 
by adding a permission for an about: page or a similar uri. And if you do not 
have 
a default dictionary entry the passworts won't work either. The later one is 
already fixed in 2.41+ but the Data Manager changes have not been checked in 
yet. 

Anway. I would suggest useing a a new profile after 2.38. So much junk got 
migrated. Even with the fixed Data Manager I junked mine and never looked back. 
Cleared a few problems.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:25:48 -0400, Bill Spikowski wrote:

>>Gilles CARINATO wrote:
>>> May I advise that the "passwords manager" is not operative for the two last 
versions of Seamonkey 2.39 and 2.40...
>>> Apparently the "remember" function works, but there is no more display 
available of the identification codes and  passwords stored.
>>
>>
>>That's not my experience -- the password manager works the same for me in 
>>2.40 
as it has for years.
>>
>>


 Regards
 Frank-Rainer Grahl


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Re: Password Manager improvement request

[Bill Spikowski]

Gilles CARINATO wrote:

May I advise that the "passwords manager" is not operative for the two last 
versions of Seamonkey 2.39 and 2.40...
Apparently the "remember" function works, but there is no more display 
available of the identification codes and  passwords stored.



That's not my experience -- the password manager works the same for me in 2.40 
as it has for years.


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Re: Password Manager improvement request

[Jim Dell]

Gilles CARINATO wrote:

May I advise that the "passwords manager" is not operative for the two
last versions of Seamonkey 2.39 and 2.40...
Apparently the "remember" function works, but there is no more display
available of the identification codes and  passwords stored.

Gilles


Giles
It works for me.
What OS are you using?
Jim

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Re: Password Manager improvement request

[Gilles CARINATO]

May I advise that the "passwords manager" is not operative for the two 
last versions of Seamonkey 2.39 and 2.40...
Apparently the "remember" function works, but there is no more display 
available of the identification codes and  passwords stored.


Gilles


David E. Ross a écrit :

On 3/22/2016 8:17 AM, no...@nonospam.org wrote:

I had been using the "Remember Passwords 1.1" add-on from Stanimir
Stamenkov because of its ability to store passwords from many sites that
don't work with the built-in Password Manager.

The most recent releases of SeaMonkey are incompatible with this add-on,
and it is no longer available.

I would like to see the capability of the built-in Password Manager
improved to make it more universally functional. I have tried LastPass,
but I don't care for it and in any case it is not fully supported for
SeaMonkey.

John


Upgrade your version of SeaMonkey.  You are using SeaMonkey 2.22.1.  By
SeaMonkey 2.38, the functionality of the Remember Passwords extension
was significantly incorporated into the "vanilla" SeaMonkey.  The
current version is SeaMonkey 2.40.


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Re: Password Manager improvement request

[David E. Ross]

On 3/22/2016 8:17 AM, no...@nonospam.org wrote:
> I had been using the "Remember Passwords 1.1" add-on from Stanimir 
> Stamenkov because of its ability to store passwords from many sites that 
> don't work with the built-in Password Manager.
> 
> The most recent releases of SeaMonkey are incompatible with this add-on, 
> and it is no longer available.
> 
> I would like to see the capability of the built-in Password Manager 
> improved to make it more universally functional. I have tried LastPass, 
> but I don't care for it and in any case it is not fully supported for 
> SeaMonkey.
> 
> John
> 

Upgrade your version of SeaMonkey.  You are using SeaMonkey 2.22.1.  By
SeaMonkey 2.38, the functionality of the Remember Passwords extension
was significantly incorporated into the "vanilla" SeaMonkey.  The
current version is SeaMonkey 2.40.

-- 
David E. Ross

While many tributes to the late Supreme Court Associate Justice
Antonin Scalia now fill the news media, his legacy was not
necessarily positive.  See my "What Price Order, Mr. Justice Scalia?"
at .
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Re: Password Manager improvement request

[Ed Mullen]

On 3/22/2016 11:17 AM, no...@nonospam.org's fingers rattled off:

I had been using the "Remember Passwords 1.1" add-on from Stanimir
Stamenkov because of its ability to store passwords from many sites that
don't work with the built-in Password Manager.

The most recent releases of SeaMonkey are incompatible with this add-on,
and it is no longer available.

I would like to see the capability of the built-in Password Manager
improved to make it more universally functional. I have tried LastPass,
but I don't care for it and in any case it is not fully supported for
SeaMonkey.

John


I've been using LastPass in SeaMonkey and Firefox and it works fine.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
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Re: What does sender support-seamonkey-bounces.... mean? (WAS:Re: New message. WAS Re: Password Manager)

[Rainer Bielefeld]

... that sender uses an invalid sender mail address


Hi,

I am afraid it might be some more complicated. I also see such 
dev-apps-seamonkey-bounces+rainerbielefeld_nurng=bielefeldundbuss...@lists.mozilla.org, 
even in the confirmation mail that I am a subscriber for that list. I 
will ask mailmanager 


Best Regards

Rainer Bielefeld

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Re: What does sender support-seamonkey-bounces.... mean? (WAS:Re: New message. WAS Re: Password Manager)

[mozilla-lists . mbourne]

Rainer Bielefeld wrote:



... that sender uses an invalid sender mail address


Hi,

I am afraid it might be some more complicated. I also see such
dev-apps-seamonkey-bounces+rainerbielefeld_nurng=bielefeldundbuss...@lists.mozilla.org,
even in the confirmation mail that I am a subscriber for that list. I
will ask mailmanager 

Best Regards

Rainer Bielefeld


I think any bounce messages from subscriber addresses (e.g. if an 
address doesn't exist, or mailbox is full, etc.) go to that address, 
instead of to the original sender. The list manager might just ignore 
such messages, or some mailing lists I've seen automatically unsubscribe 
addresses which continually bounce for more than a certain time.


The copy of a message sent to you has the address you mention in its 
headers. If it couldn't be delivered for some reason, your mail server 
(or an intermediate server if it didn't even get that far) would send a 
message to that address describing the problem. The list software can 
then deal with the problem, without bothering the original sender who 
probably doesn't want to be bothered with a whole pile of delivery 
failure messages every time they post to the list.


Mark.

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Re: Password Manager

[Bill Spikowski]

SameulS wrote:

Bill Spikowski wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 08/03/2015 09:34 AM, Bill Spikowski wrote:

SameulS wrote:

Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

Hi,

may I ask your to read and consider
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/QA/Bug_writing_guidelines?


All those hints also are relevant for support requests here.

has stopped working is too meaningless, and it's a question of
courtesy not to burden other helping volunteers research in your mail
header to find out that you use something like Windows 8.1 or
Windows RT
8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2.

Best regards

Rainer Bielefeld


I apologize for my transgression in posting to the board. Thank you
for pointing this out to me.

Warmest regards.



Samuel -- What version of Seamonkey are you using? Have you updated it
recently? Those factors can affect saved passwords too.



It helps to read original posts.

My PW Manager has stopped working for some strange reason on SM
2.33.1 on a W 8.1pro machine.



The additional information I requested would help too.

If the OP recently upgraded from say SM 2.26, then his is a well-known
problem.

If his problem began after updating from say SM 2.31, or unrelated to an
update, that's a different matter.







This started after down grading from 2.35 or some such version that did not 
work well for me, so I reverted to 2.33.1 as the newer version was still a test.

I did post about the challenges with that version, but most likely did not do 
in a fashion which the testers/SM gurus could answer or respond to. For this I 
do apologize as well.

Thank you all for your invaluable input and assistance.



Thanks for the additional info. Afraid I can't help; I've reverted to 2.26 
because of several problems with newer versions (not just passwords), so I 
don't know what factors between 2.35 and 2.33.1 might be causing this problem.

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Re: Password Manager

[Bill Spikowski]

WaltS48 wrote:

On 08/03/2015 09:34 AM, Bill Spikowski wrote:

SameulS wrote:

Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

Hi,

may I ask your to read and consider
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/QA/Bug_writing_guidelines?

All those hints also are relevant for support requests here.

has stopped working is too meaningless, and it's a question of
courtesy not to burden other helping volunteers research in your mail
header to find out that you use something like Windows 8.1 or Windows RT
8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2.

Best regards

Rainer Bielefeld


I apologize for my transgression in posting to the board. Thank you
for pointing this out to me.

Warmest regards.



Samuel -- What version of Seamonkey are you using? Have you updated it
recently? Those factors can affect saved passwords too.



It helps to read original posts.

My PW Manager has stopped working for some strange reason on SM 2.33.1 on a W 
8.1pro machine.



The additional information I requested would help too.

If the OP recently upgraded from say SM 2.26, then his is a well-known problem.

If his problem began after updating from say SM 2.31, or unrelated to an 
update, that's a different matter.


 


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New message. WAS Re: Password Manager

[Keith Whaley]

I have a question to ask of the list.
Recently I've noticed the address bar contains
the words Sender : support-seamonkey 
support-seamonkey-bounces+keith_w=dslextreme@lists.mozilla.org

Why bounces? Is there something I should do?

keith whaley




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What does sender support-seamonkey-bounces.... mean? (WAS:Re: New message. WAS Re: Password Manager)

[Rainer Bielefeld]

Keith Whaley schrieb:

the words Sender : support-seamonkey 
support-seamonkey-bounces+keith_w=dslextreme@lists.mozilla.org


Hi Keith Whaley,

please do not hijack other threads for your questons.

Concerning your question: I think reason for such a bounces-address is 
that sender uses an invalid sender mail address in his account settings 
for that news server.


Best regards

Rainer Bielefeld
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Re: Password Manager

[WaltS48]

On 08/03/2015 09:34 AM, Bill Spikowski wrote:

SameulS wrote:

Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

Hi,

may I ask your to read and consider
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/QA/Bug_writing_guidelines?

All those hints also are relevant for support requests here.

has stopped working is too meaningless, and it's a question of
courtesy not to burden other helping volunteers research in your mail
header to find out that you use something like Windows 8.1 or Windows RT
8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2.

Best regards

Rainer Bielefeld


I apologize for my transgression in posting to the board. Thank you
for pointing this out to me.

Warmest regards.



Samuel -- What version of Seamonkey are you using? Have you updated it
recently? Those factors can affect saved passwords too.



It helps to read original posts.

My PW Manager has stopped working for some strange reason on SM 2.33.1 
on a W 8.1pro machine.


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Re: Password Manager

[SameulS]

Bill Spikowski wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 08/03/2015 09:34 AM, Bill Spikowski wrote:

SameulS wrote:

Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

Hi,

may I ask your to read and consider
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/QA/Bug_writing_guidelines?


All those hints also are relevant for support requests here.

has stopped working is too meaningless, and it's a question of
courtesy not to burden other helping volunteers research in your mail
header to find out that you use something like Windows 8.1 or
Windows RT
8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2.

Best regards

Rainer Bielefeld


I apologize for my transgression in posting to the board. Thank you
for pointing this out to me.

Warmest regards.



Samuel -- What version of Seamonkey are you using? Have you updated it
recently? Those factors can affect saved passwords too.



It helps to read original posts.

My PW Manager has stopped working for some strange reason on SM
2.33.1 on a W 8.1pro machine.



The additional information I requested would help too.

If the OP recently upgraded from say SM 2.26, then his is a well-known
problem.

If his problem began after updating from say SM 2.31, or unrelated to an
update, that's a different matter.







This started after down grading from 2.35 or some such version that did 
not work well for me, so I reverted to 2.33.1 as the newer version was 
still a test.


I did post about the challenges with that version, but most likely did 
not do in a fashion which the testers/SM gurus could answer or respond 
to. For this I do apologize as well.


Thank you all for your invaluable input and assistance.

bo1953


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Re: Password Manager

[SameulS]

Bill Spikowski wrote:

SameulS wrote:

Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

Hi,

may I ask your to read and consider
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/QA/Bug_writing_guidelines?

All those hints also are relevant for support requests here.

has stopped working is too meaningless, and it's a question of
courtesy not to burden other helping volunteers research in your mail
header to find out that you use something like Windows 8.1 or Windows RT
8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2.

Best regards

Rainer Bielefeld


I apologize for my transgression in posting to the board. Thank you
for pointing this out to me.

Warmest regards.



Samuel -- What version of Seamonkey are you using? Have you updated it
recently? Those factors can affect saved passwords too.


Bill - the version is 2.33.1. I do apologize as I thought it was 
included in the original post...



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Re: Password Manager

[SameulS]

Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

Hi,

may I ask your to read and consider
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/QA/Bug_writing_guidelines?
All those hints also are relevant for support requests here.

has stopped working is too meaningless, and it's a question of
courtesy not to burden other helping volunteers research in your mail
header to find out that you use something like Windows 8.1 or Windows RT
8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2.

Best regards

Rainer Bielefeld


I apologize for my transgression in posting to the board. Thank you for 
pointing this out to me.


Warmest regards.
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Re: Password Manager

[Bill Spikowski]

SameulS wrote:

Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

Hi,

may I ask your to read and consider
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/QA/Bug_writing_guidelines?
All those hints also are relevant for support requests here.

has stopped working is too meaningless, and it's a question of
courtesy not to burden other helping volunteers research in your mail
header to find out that you use something like Windows 8.1 or Windows RT
8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2.

Best regards

Rainer Bielefeld


I apologize for my transgression in posting to the board. Thank you for 
pointing this out to me.

Warmest regards.



Samuel -- What version of Seamonkey are you using? Have you updated it 
recently? Those factors can affect saved passwords too.
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Re: Password Manager

[Rainer Bielefeld]

Hi,

may I ask your to read and consider 
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/QA/Bug_writing_guidelines? 
All those hints also are relevant for support requests here.


has stopped working is too meaningless, and it's a question of 
courtesy not to burden other helping volunteers research in your mail 
header to find out that you use something like Windows 8.1 or Windows RT 
8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2.


Best regards

Rainer Bielefeld
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Re: Password Manager

[David E. Ross]

On 3/14/2015 9:23 AM, William wrote:
 David E. Ross wrote:
 Having encountered too many Web sites where Password Manager no longer
 fills in user IDs and passwords that were already saved, I have reverted
 (again) to SeaMonkey 2.26.1 with the Remember Passwords extension.

 I wanted better control of my passwords and came across a program called 
 Last Password (at Lastpass.com).  It stores my passwords in encrypted 
 format, and does a pretty good job of entering them, and user names, 
 when needed.  It has other features, including a formfill capacity, that 
 keeps your data, including credit card data, again in encrypted form.  I 
 particularly like this, as I am congenitally incapable of memorizing 
 credit card data, and didn't want to try to hide it in my computer where 
 someone might find it.
 
 I make contributions yearly to quite a few charities, and this is a lot 
 easier when LastPass kicks in and completes the forms, then asks me if I 
 really want it to enter the credit card information.  I've been using it 
 a little over a year and am happy, but lately I have noticed that I am 
 forgetting some userIDs and passwords because of reliance on LastPass 
 and even as my own administrater I can't get them from LastPass in other 
 than encrypted form, and cutting and pasting an encrypted password 
 doesn't work.
 
 I have no affiliation with LastPass, other than as a user.  I'm just 
 posting this as information.  Whoever is interested can look it over and 
 make your own decision.
 

I created a test profile where I installed the Last Password extension.
 From only a brief test, I get a strong impression that it saves my
passwords externally, on some remote server.  Is this true?  That is
definitely NOT what anyone should want.

Even if I encrypt my passwords using Password Manager's master password,
I still want to restrict the storage of my passwords to my own PC.
Password Manager stores the encrypted passwords in the user's profile.
I have four profiles, two of which have passwords.  All four passwords
are in a non-standard location.

-- 
David E. Ross

I am sticking with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 until saved passwords can
be used when autocomplete=off.  See
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433238.
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Re: Password Manager

[William]

David E. Ross wrote:

Having encountered too many Web sites where Password Manager no longer
fills in user IDs and passwords that were already saved, I have reverted
(again) to SeaMonkey 2.26.1 with the Remember Passwords extension.

I wanted better control of my passwords and came across a program called 
Last Password (at Lastpass.com).  It stores my passwords in encrypted 
format, and does a pretty good job of entering them, and user names, 
when needed.  It has other features, including a formfill capacity, that 
keeps your data, including credit card data, again in encrypted form.  I 
particularly like this, as I am congenitally incapable of memorizing 
credit card data, and didn't want to try to hide it in my computer where 
someone might find it.


I make contributions yearly to quite a few charities, and this is a lot 
easier when LastPass kicks in and completes the forms, then asks me if I 
really want it to enter the credit card information.  I've been using it 
a little over a year and am happy, but lately I have noticed that I am 
forgetting some userIDs and passwords because of reliance on LastPass 
and even as my own administrater I can't get them from LastPass in other 
than encrypted form, and cutting and pasting an encrypted password 
doesn't work.


I have no affiliation with LastPass, other than as a user.  I'm just 
posting this as information.  Whoever is interested can look it over and 
make your own decision.

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Re: Password Manager

[Michael Ströder]

David E. Ross wrote:

On 3/13/2015 8:57 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:


My problem with SeaMonkey 2.33 is not about storing passwords.  The
problem is that passwords that have been stored are not being
filled-in on login pages.  This is not a problem with SeaMonkey
2.26.1 when I also have installed the Remember Passwords extension,
which cannot be used with SeaMonkey 2.33.


For the moment, the workaround seems to be to type the first character
of the username and SeaMonkey will wake up and fill in the rest.


This does not work in SeaMoneky 2.33 when the user ID is entered on one
Web page and the password is entered on the next page, especially if
autocomplete=off.


Since 2.32 autocomplete=off is ignored and therefore you don't need the 
Remember Passwords extension anymore.


I had the very same setup like you on Linux with 2.26.1 and the Remember 
Passwords extension and I successfully upgraded to 2.33 with all my old 
passwords. I removed the extension before doing the upgrade (have backup of 
profile!).


Note that the auto-fill behaviour is indeed a bit clumpsy:
It seems you have to first click into the password field once and then the 
username field raises possible stored values as usual.


Ciao, Michael.

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Re: Password Manager

[Mike C]

David E. Ross wrote:

Having encountered too many Web sites where Password Manager no longer
fills in user IDs and passwords that were already saved, I have reverted
(again) to SeaMonkey 2.26.1 with the Remember Passwords extension.


Ever try RoBoForm?
It works great for me. Been using it for about 10 years.

*RoboForm is completely free to use for up to 10 saved logins.
Otherwise it's $9.95 for first year.
http://www.roboform.com/
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Re: Password Manager

[David E. Ross]

On 3/13/2015 9:47 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
 David E. Ross wrote:
 
 On 3/13/2015 8:57 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
 David E. Ross wrote:

 My problem with SeaMonkey 2.33 is not about storing passwords.
 The problem is that passwords that have been stored are not
 being filled-in on login pages.  This is not a problem with
 SeaMonkey 2.26.1 when I also have installed the Remember
 Passwords extension, which cannot be used with SeaMonkey 2.33.

 For the moment, the workaround seems to be to type the first
 character of the username and SeaMonkey will wake up and fill in
 the rest.

 This does not work in SeaMonkey 2.33 when the user ID is entered on
 one Web page and the password is entered on the next page, especially
 if autocomplete=off.
 
 Sure. But when has that ever worked?
 

It worked (and still works) in SeaMonkey 2.26.1 with the Remember
Passwords extension.

-- 
David E. Ross

I am sticking with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 until saved passwords can
be used when autocomplete=off.  See
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433238.
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Re: Password Manager

[Hb]

David E. Ross wrote:
 Having encountered too many Web sites where Password Manager no longer
 fills in user IDs and passwords that were already saved, ...

Those web sites may have changed their login forms. So you need to
actively adapt the stored form data in Seamonkey for those websites.

Some websites try to prohibit the storing of usernames and passwords in
the browser. Try the following bookmarklet to override this.

javascript:(function(){var%20ca,cea,cs,df,dfe,i,j,x,y;function%20n(i,what){return%20i+%20+what+((i==1)?:s)}ca=cea=cs=0;df=document.forms;for(i=0;idf.length;++i){x=df[i];dfe=x.elements;if(x.onsubmit){x.onsubmit=;++cs;}if(x.attributes[autocomplete]){x.attributes[autocomplete].value=on;++ca;}for(j=0;jdfe.length;++j){y=dfe[j];if(y.attributes[autocomplete]){y.attributes[autocomplete].value=on;++cea;}}}alert(Removed%20autocomplete=off%20from:\n+n(ca,form)+\n+n(cea,form%20element)+\n\nRemoved%20onsubmit%20from:\n+n(cs,form)+\n\nAfter%20you%20type%20your%20password%20and%20submit%20the%20form,%20the%20browser%20will%20offer%20to%20remember%20your%20password.)})();

Hb

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Re: Password Manager

[David E. Ross]

On 3/13/2015 4:19 AM, Hb wrote:
 David E. Ross wrote:
 Having encountered too many Web sites where Password Manager no longer
 fills in user IDs and passwords that were already saved, ...
 
 Those web sites may have changed their login forms. So you need to
 actively adapt the stored form data in Seamonkey for those websites.
 
 Some websites try to prohibit the storing of usernames and passwords in
 the browser. Try the following bookmarklet to override this.
 
 javascript:(function(){var%20ca,cea,cs,df,dfe,i,j,x,y;function%20n(i,what){return%20i+%20+what+((i==1)?:s)}ca=cea=cs=0;df=document.forms;for(i=0;idf.length;++i){x=df[i];dfe=x.elements;if(x.onsubmit){x.onsubmit=;++cs;}if(x.attributes[autocomplete]){x.attributes[autocomplete].value=on;++ca;}for(j=0;jdfe.length;++j){y=dfe[j];if(y.attributes[autocomplete]){y.attributes[autocomplete].value=on;++cea;}}}alert(Removed%20autocomplete=off%20from:\n+n(ca,form)+\n+n(cea,form%20element)+\n\nRemoved%20onsubmit%20from:\n+n(cs,form)+\n\nAfter%20you%20type%20your%20password%20and%20submit%20the%20form,%20the%20browser%20will%20offer%20to%20remember%20your%20password.)})();
 
 Hb
 

My problem with SeaMonkey 2.33 is not about storing passwords.  The
problem is that passwords that have been stored are not being filled-in
on login pages.  This is not a problem with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 when I also
have installed the Remember Passwords extension, which cannot be used
with SeaMonkey 2.33.

-- 
David E. Ross

I am sticking with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 until saved passwords can
be used when autocomplete=off.  See
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433238.
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Re: Password Manager

[David E. Ross]

On 3/13/2015 8:57 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
 David E. Ross wrote:
 
 My problem with SeaMonkey 2.33 is not about storing passwords.  The
 problem is that passwords that have been stored are not being
 filled-in on login pages.  This is not a problem with SeaMonkey
 2.26.1 when I also have installed the Remember Passwords extension,
 which cannot be used with SeaMonkey 2.33.
 
 For the moment, the workaround seems to be to type the first character 
 of the username and SeaMonkey will wake up and fill in the rest.
 

This does not work in SeaMoneky 2.33 when the user ID is entered on one
Web page and the password is entered on the next page, especially if
autocomplete=off.

-- 
David E. Ross

I am sticking with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 until saved passwords can
be used when autocomplete=off.  See
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433238.
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Re: Password Manager

[Paul B. Gallagher]

David E. Ross wrote:


My problem with SeaMonkey 2.33 is not about storing passwords.  The
problem is that passwords that have been stored are not being
filled-in on login pages.  This is not a problem with SeaMonkey
2.26.1 when I also have installed the Remember Passwords extension,
which cannot be used with SeaMonkey 2.33.


For the moment, the workaround seems to be to type the first character 
of the username and SeaMonkey will wake up and fill in the rest.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Password Manager

[David H. Durgee]

WaltS48 wrote:

On 03/12/2015 06:57 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

Having encountered too many Web sites where Password Manager no longer
fills in user IDs and passwords that were already saved, I have reverted
(again) to SeaMonkey 2.26.1 with the Remember Passwords extension.



Switch to Firefox and use the Secure Login extension.


Is this extension offered for SeaMonkey?  If not, can it be converted 
for use with SeaMonkey?  Does it operate as simply as the Remember 
Passwords extension that can no longer be used did?  I would be 
interested in checking this out if it can restore the functionality lost 
since SM 2.26.1 in dealing with passwords.


Dave
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Re: Password Manager

[Paul B. Gallagher]

David E. Ross wrote:


On 3/13/2015 8:57 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:


My problem with SeaMonkey 2.33 is not about storing passwords.
The problem is that passwords that have been stored are not
being filled-in on login pages.  This is not a problem with
SeaMonkey 2.26.1 when I also have installed the Remember
Passwords extension, which cannot be used with SeaMonkey 2.33.


For the moment, the workaround seems to be to type the first
character of the username and SeaMonkey will wake up and fill in
the rest.


This does not work in SeaMonkey 2.33 when the user ID is entered on
one Web page and the password is entered on the next page, especially
if autocomplete=off.


Sure. But when has that ever worked?

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
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Re: Password Manager

[WaltS48]

On 03/12/2015 06:57 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

Having encountered too many Web sites where Password Manager no longer
fills in user IDs and passwords that were already saved, I have reverted
(again) to SeaMonkey 2.26.1 with the Remember Passwords extension.




Switch to Firefox and use the Secure Login extension.

--
Kubuntu 14.10 | KDE 4.14.1 | Thunderbird 38.0a2(Earlybird)
[Coexist - Understanding Across Divides](https://www.coexist.org/)
Proofreader wanted - apply online. ;)
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Re: Password Manager stops working

[Daniel]

On 12/11/14 02:55, David H. Durgee wrote:

I am running 2.30 on linux Mint 17 qiana x64 and just had something
strange happen.  My system has been up 11 days and I believe I have had
SM 2.30 opened the entire time.  Given the bad behavior with passwords
since the upgrade from 2.26.x I keep a tab with the data manager open
so I can copy passwords when the don't fill in.  This has worked for me
as well as it can until this morning.

This morning when I attempted to logon to my bank web site there was no
password entry to be found for them!  I went through their procedure to
reset the password, but although that got me logged in I did NOT get the
prompt to remember the password.  I tried everything I could think of to
get this to work without success.

Finally I decided to shut SM down and open it again.  When it opened the
passwords were back.

This was a totally disconcerting experience.  Anyone else had this happen?

Dave


Dave, I've had a similar occurrence as you but mine was with loosing my 
bookmarks file. Reloaded an old version of bookmarks.htlm and things are 
working again, although I've lost a couple of newer bookmarks!


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:32.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.29 Build identifier: 20140829003846

or
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:33.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.30 Build identifier: 20141009214701

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Re: Password Manager stops working

[Daniel]

On 12/11/14 19:43, Daniel wrote:

On 12/11/14 02:55, David H. Durgee wrote:

I am running 2.30 on linux Mint 17 qiana x64 and just had something
strange happen.  My system has been up 11 days and I believe I have had
SM 2.30 opened the entire time.  Given the bad behavior with passwords
since the upgrade from 2.26.x I keep a tab with the data manager open
so I can copy passwords when the don't fill in.  This has worked for me
as well as it can until this morning.

This morning when I attempted to logon to my bank web site there was no
password entry to be found for them!  I went through their procedure to
reset the password, but although that got me logged in I did NOT get the
prompt to remember the password.  I tried everything I could think of to
get this to work without success.

Finally I decided to shut SM down and open it again.  When it opened the
passwords were back.

This was a totally disconcerting experience.  Anyone else had this
happen?

Dave


Dave, I've had a similar occurrence as you but mine was with loosing my
bookmarks file. Reloaded an old version of bookmarks.htlm and things are
working again, although I've lost a couple of newer bookmarks!


s/htlm/html

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:32.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.29 Build identifier: 20140829003846

or
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:33.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.30 Build identifier: 20141009214701

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Re: Password Manager Problem

[stan pierce]

David E. Ross wrote:

Since updating to SeaMonkey 2.29, Password Manager does not fill-in my
passwords where my user ID is input on a separate page.  Has anyone else
seen this problem?

This has never worked for me. It happens, I notice, with banks and a few 
other places.


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Re: Password Manager Problem

[cyberzen]

Le 09/09/2014 00:50, David E. Ross a écrit :

Since updating to SeaMonkey 2.29, Password Manager does not fill-in my
passwords where my user ID is input on a separate page.  Has anyone else
seen this problem?



I do

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Re: Password Manager Problem

[WaltS48]

On 09/08/2014 06:50 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

Since updating to SeaMonkey 2.29, Password Manager does not fill-in my
passwords where my user ID is input on a separate page.  Has anyone else
seen this problem?




If you are using the Remember Passwords extension, try disabling it.

It is no longer needed, because of the improvements to the password manager.

Passwords can now be saved via the password manager even when 
autocomplete=off was used to prevent it (see bug 956906).


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Re: Password Manager Problem

[SamuelS]

On 08-Sep-14 18:50, David E. Ross wrote:

Since updating to SeaMonkey 2.29, Password Manager does not fill-in my
passwords where my user ID is input on a separate page.  Has anyone else
seen this problem?



This is a known issue, I believe, as outlined in the 'Known Issues' 
section of the Release Notes.

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Re: Password Manager Problem

[David E. Ross]

On 9/8/2014 4:52 PM, cyberzen wrote:
 Le 09/09/2014 00:50, David E. Ross a écrit :
 Since updating to SeaMonkey 2.29, Password Manager does not fill-in my
 passwords where my user ID is input on a separate page.  Has anyone else
 seen this problem?

 
 I do
 

I just now submitted bug #1064639.  See
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1064639.

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Re: Password Manager Problem

[David E. Ross]

On 9/8/2014 5:44 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
 On 09/08/2014 06:50 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
 Since updating to SeaMonkey 2.29, Password Manager does not fill-in my
 passwords where my user ID is input on a separate page.  Has anyone else
 seen this problem?

 
 
 If you are using the Remember Passwords extension, try disabling it.
 
 It is no longer needed, because of the improvements to the password manager.
 
 Passwords can now be saved via the password manager even when 
 autocomplete=off was used to prevent it (see bug 956906).
 

I removed the Remember Passwords extension as soon as I installed
SeaMonkey 2.29, before I hit this problem.

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Re: Password Manager Problem

[David E. Ross]

On 9/8/2014 5:41 PM, SamuelS wrote:
 On 08-Sep-14 18:50, David E. Ross wrote:
 Since updating to SeaMonkey 2.29, Password Manager does not fill-in my
 passwords where my user ID is input on a separate page.  Has anyone else
 seen this problem?

 
 This is a known issue, I believe, as outlined in the 'Known Issues' 
 section of the Release Notes.
 

The only mention of passwords in the Known Issues is the following:
 The Remember Passwords add-on breaks password handling. Please
 disable or uninstall this add-on using the Add-ons Manager.

Since the functionality of the Remember Passwords extension is
supposedly implemented in Toolkit's Password Manager component, I
removed the Remember Passwords extension when I installed SeaMonkey
2.29.  In any case, that extension was supposed to involve only the
saving of new passwords, not the retrieval and filling-in of passwords
in a login page.

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The Ukraine will be Putin's Czechoslovakia.
See http://www.rossde.com/editorials/edtl_PutinUkraine.html.
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Re: password manager

[Zeb Carter]

William Brown wrote:

Windows7, SM 2.24.

I was happily memorizing usernames and passwords with SeaMonkey.

I have F-Secure Internet Security.  They sent me an email saying they
had a new free product (F-Secure Key) that they said would store my
passwords in encrypted form.  I misread it to say that it would also
store data (I've been looking for a way to store my credit card
information securely)  So I installed it.  Alas, it only stores
passwords and user names, and has some language problems (it kept
requesting my bank password, I entered what I and my bank call my
password, but it was rejected.  Eventually, I realized they wanted my
PIN, bur only after being locked out of my bank.  Due to too many
similar problems, I uninstalled F-Secure Key.

Unfortunately, when I had installed it, it had apparently turned of the
password manager capture feature, so now when I go to a new site that
needs a password, SeaMonkey doesn't ask if I want to memorize the
password, and doesn't memorize it.

Is there an easy way to turn this feature back on, or should I just
reinstall SeaMonkey?



I found this link on Ed Mullen's site: 
https://www.squarefree.com/bookmarklets/forms.html


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Re: password manager

[MCBastos]

Interviewed by CNN on 06/03/2014 23:09, William Brown told the world:
 Windows7, SM 2.24.
 
 I was happily memorizing usernames and passwords with SeaMonkey.
 
 I have F-Secure Internet Security.  They sent me an email saying they 
 had a new free product (F-Secure Key) that they said would store my 
 passwords in encrypted form.  I misread it to say that it would also 
 store data (I've been looking for a way to store my credit card 
 information securely)  So I installed it.  Alas, it only stores 
 passwords and user names, and has some language problems (it kept 
 requesting my bank password, I entered what I and my bank call my 
 password, but it was rejected.  Eventually, I realized they wanted my 
 PIN, bur only after being locked out of my bank.  Due to too many 
 similar problems, I uninstalled F-Secure Key.

I would suggest KeePass for storing your more critical passwords. It's
free, GPL-licensed, uses strong crypto, is regularly maintained and has
been around for years, so it's fairly well-tested too.



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use will be prosecuted under the DMCA.

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Re: Password manager peculiarity

[cmcadams]

Neglected to mention: I did try deleting that password/username and starting again, 
several times. Same result.


cmcadams wrote:

A few days ago I set up a new Gmail account and contrived to type my actual name
(rather than my User Name) in Server Settings, telling Password Manager to
remember. Didn't work, of course; I fixed the slip and now it does. The 
weirdness is
that now when I bring up Password Manager and look at my Gmail passwords I see 
my
original mistake in the Username column. As I said, it DOES work correctly, now.

With SM 2.21, Windows.

So, not hurting, not yelping...but I thought this was strange.


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Re: Password manager

[Daniel]

EE wrote:

Daniel wrote:

lsq2...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:57:40 PM UTC-7, Ed Mullen wrote:

Not@home wrote:


I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.







For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the



passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look
it up.







However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer
works.  It



still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to look



one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing all
the



cookies that have been installed.







Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?




This might help:



chrome://passwordmgr/content/passwordManager.xul



Put that into your location bar and press Enter.  Then filter on the

domain in question.



--

Ed Mullen

http://edmullen.net/

They show you how detergents take out bloodstains. I think if you've
got

a T-shirt with bloodstains all over it, maybe your laundry isn't your

biggest problem.


Ed, why can't you read?


As I understand it, if you select the site you are trying to locate a
password for, one of the column headers will be for the Passwords for
that site.

At least, that's how it works for me!!


Preferences/Options  Privacy  Security  Passwords  Manage Stored
Passwords  choose the domain  click Show Passwords


Yeap, that'll do but I prefer Tools-Data Manager and select the site of 
interest!


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User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:21.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/21.0 SeaMonkey/2.18 Build identifier: 20130418192405


or

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/24.0 SeaMonkey/2.21 Build identifier: 20130827183508

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Re: Password manager

[Daniel]

lsq2...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:57:40 PM UTC-7, Ed Mullen wrote:

Not@home wrote:


I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.







For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the



passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look it up.







However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer works.  It



still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to look



one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing all the



cookies that have been installed.







Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?




This might help:



chrome://passwordmgr/content/passwordManager.xul



Put that into your location bar and press Enter.  Then filter on the

domain in question.



--

Ed Mullen

http://edmullen.net/

They show you how detergents take out bloodstains. I think if you've got

a T-shirt with bloodstains all over it, maybe your laundry isn't your

biggest problem.


Ed, why can't you read?


As I understand it, if you select the site you are trying to locate a 
password for, one of the column headers will be for the Passwords for 
that site.


At least, that's how it works for me!!

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:21.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/21.0 SeaMonkey/2.18 Build identifier: 20130418192405


or

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/24.0 SeaMonkey/2.21 Build identifier: 20130827183508

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Re: Password manager

[EE]

Daniel wrote:

lsq2...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:57:40 PM UTC-7, Ed Mullen wrote:

Not@home wrote:


I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.







For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the



passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look
it up.







However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer
works.  It



still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to look



one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing all the



cookies that have been installed.







Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?




This might help:



chrome://passwordmgr/content/passwordManager.xul



Put that into your location bar and press Enter.  Then filter on the

domain in question.



--

Ed Mullen

http://edmullen.net/

They show you how detergents take out bloodstains. I think if you've got

a T-shirt with bloodstains all over it, maybe your laundry isn't your

biggest problem.


Ed, why can't you read?


As I understand it, if you select the site you are trying to locate a
password for, one of the column headers will be for the Passwords for
that site.

At least, that's how it works for me!!

Preferences/Options  Privacy  Security  Passwords  Manage Stored 
Passwords  choose the domain  click Show Passwords


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Re: Password manager

[lsq2536]

On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:57:40 PM UTC-7, Ed Mullen wrote:
 Not@home wrote:
 
  I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.
 
 
 
  For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the
 
  passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look it up.
 
 
 
  However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer works.  It
 
  still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to look
 
  one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing all the
 
  cookies that have been installed.
 
 
 
  Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?
 
 
 
 This might help:
 
 
 
 chrome://passwordmgr/content/passwordManager.xul
 
 
 
 Put that into your location bar and press Enter.  Then filter on the 
 
 domain in question.
 
 
 
 -- 
 
 Ed Mullen
 
 http://edmullen.net/
 
 They show you how detergents take out bloodstains. I think if you've got 
 
 a T-shirt with bloodstains all over it, maybe your laundry isn't your 
 
 biggest problem.

Ed, why can't you read?
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Re: Password manager

[Achim Woellgens]

Am Donnerstag, 22. August 2013 02:10:55 UTC+2 schrieb Not@home:
 I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.
 
 
 
 For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the 
 
 passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look it up.
 
 
 
 However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer works.  It 
 
 still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to look 
 
 one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing all the 
 
 cookies that have been installed.
 
 
 
 Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?

Hi there,

not sure what the actual status on that is but I encountered the same probs 
with hidden passwords and only cookies on Linux with SM 2.20...
now it s even weirder cause I downloaded the german 2.20 (final) version once, 
when guided by SM notice there but NOW there are only beta versions of the 
german version for Linux!
So I switched back to 2.19 cause I am not sure IS there a final 2.20 version 
now and WHY did 2.19 work with passwords and 2.20 not? (beta bug or security 
feature? etc.)
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Re: Password manager

[A Williams]

Achim Woellgens wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 22. August 2013 02:10:55 UTC+2 schrieb Not@home:

I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.



For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the

passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look it up.



However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer works.  It

still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to look

one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing all the

cookies that have been installed.



Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?


Hi there,

not sure what the actual status on that is but I encountered the same probs 
with hidden passwords and only cookies on Linux with SM 2.20...
now it s even weirder cause I downloaded the german 2.20 (final) version once, 
when guided by SM notice there but NOW there are only beta versions of the 
german version for Linux!
So I switched back to 2.19 cause I am not sure IS there a final 2.20 version now and WHY 
did 2.19 work with passwords and 2.20 not? (beta bug or security feature? 
etc.)




Es ist nicht wirklich ein Problem.
Der 'Password Manager' setzt den Filter nicht (oder nicht richtig) und 
man bekommt ein unfiltrierten about:data
Um die Passwörter für Domain prism.nsa.gov (*) anzuschauen, gehe erst 
dorthin auf der linke Seite (Search Domains - oder wie es in Deutsch 
übersetzt wird - funktioniert), und dann kann man die Passwörter sehen.


* - bei prism.nsa.gov frage den Sysadmin, ein Sonderfall.
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Re: Password manager

[Phillip M Jones CET]

Trane Francks tr...@gol.com wrote:
 On 8/25/13 3:51 AM +0900, Geoff Welsh wrote:
 
 That machine /is/ set to boot into 64 bit mode always.  When it was
 released, the option to boot into 32 was default to accommodate possible
 older software, but I set it to 64 always after a year or so.
 
 My Early 2008 MacBook4,1 can only use the 32-bit kernel and extensions.
 That said, SM is running in 64-bit mode and I wouldn't expect that to be an 
 issue.


try switching to 32 bit mode. see what happens
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Re: Password manager

[Trane Francks]

On 8/26/13 9:40 PM +0900, Phillip M Jones CET wrote:

Trane Francks tr...@gol.com wrote:

On 8/25/13 3:51 AM +0900, Geoff Welsh wrote:


That machine /is/ set to boot into 64 bit mode always.  When it was
released, the option to boot into 32 was default to accommodate possible
older software, but I set it to 64 always after a year or so.


My Early 2008 MacBook4,1 can only use the 32-bit kernel and extensions.
That said, SM is running in 64-bit mode and I wouldn't expect that to be an 
issue.



try switching to 32 bit mode. see what happens

No, thanks. While I was able to replicate the problem for the OP, it 
doesn't bother me at all.


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Re: Password manager

[BIll Spikowski]

Trane Francks wrote:
 On 8/25/13 9:06 AM +0900, Ray Davison wrote:
 Ed Mullen wrote:


 You're not intstalling anything, it's a link that invokes the old-style
 password manager.  No installation, no looking for a file in the
 profile, just click that link.  I've got it saved as a bookmark so it's
 easy to get to.

 That is what I said, with
 chrome://passwordmgr/content/passwordManager.xul there is nothing to
 install/add.

 ray

 Yep. I've bookmarked it, too. Much cleaner than the Data Manager 
 interface. :)



I've bookmarked it too -- but it reminds me of the shortcoming of the
old approach, where you often had to scroll through the entire list to
find a particular domain, since it lists the http domains separately
from https, etc. etc.

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Re: Password manager

[Trane Francks]

On 8/23/13 6:59 PM +0900, Daniel wrote:

Trane Francks wrote:

On 8/23/13 12:38 PM +0900, Geoff Welsh wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

A Williams wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Not@home wrote:

I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.

For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the
passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look it
up.

However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer
works.  It
still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to
look
one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing
all the
cookies that have been installed.

Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?


They're there, but sometimes you have to give SM a little guidance.

The Data Manager has five tabs on the right
(Cookies/Permissions/Preferences/Passwords/Storage). If Passwords
isn't white, click it to select it.

Alternately, above the list of domains is a button that should say
Passwords only. If not, click the down-pointing triangle at the
end of
the button and choose that option.

In either case, once you have the list of password-enabled sites,
click
Show Passwords at the lower right to see what you need.



There is a change between the 2.19 and 2.20 behaviour here, possibly a
bug but probably a policy decision.
Under 2.19, Tools - Password Manager brought up a list of all
domains
*which had passwords saved*.
Under 2.20, Tools - Password Manager brings up a list of all domains
which have any Cookies/Permissions/Preferences/Passwords/Storage saved.

Now you go to the domain required (there are just a lot more of them
that before) and then Passwords will be clickable.


Perhaps there's a difference between the Windows and Linux versions. On
my Windows version of SM 2.20, Tools | Password Manager | Manage
Passwords does bring up the Data Manager, but it's open to the Passwords
tab, ...


Here on SM 2.20 in OSX it brings up the Data Manger, with Passwords
Only selected on the left side drop-down menu, and it seems to work
fine.

GW


SM 2.20 on OS X here brings up the cookies tab. Obviously, the code is
buggy since it can't reliably execute.


Perhaps Geoff and Trane need to be more specific  OS X.x.x??


10.6.8 Snow Leopard here.

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Re: Password manager

[Daniel]

Trane Francks wrote:

On 8/23/13 6:59 PM +0900, Daniel wrote:

Trane Francks wrote:

On 8/23/13 12:38 PM +0900, Geoff Welsh wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:


Snip


Perhaps there's a difference between the Windows and Linux
versions. On
my Windows version of SM 2.20, Tools | Password Manager | Manage
Passwords does bring up the Data Manager, but it's open to the
Passwords
tab, ...


Here on SM 2.20 in OSX it brings up the Data Manger, with Passwords
Only selected on the left side drop-down menu, and it seems to work
fine.

GW


SM 2.20 on OS X here brings up the cookies tab. Obviously, the code is
buggy since it can't reliably execute.


Perhaps Geoff and Trane need to be more specific  OS X.x.x??


10.6.8 Snow Leopard here.


So you're both on SM 2.20 and OS 10.6, but getting different results!

Is OS X.6 all 64 bit or all 32 bit or either??

Hang on, Trane you are showing as Macintosh, Intel Mac OS X 10.6, whilst 
you, Geoff, are showing as PPC Mac OS X 10.4 and SM 2.0.14, so I guess 
this (posting) machine is not the one Geoff is having problems with!


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:21.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/21.0 SeaMonkey/2.18 Build identifier: 20130418192405


or

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.20 Build identifier: 20130709211044

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Re: Password manager

[Geoff Welsh]

Daniel wrote:

Trane Francks wrote:

On 8/23/13 6:59 PM +0900, Daniel wrote:

Trane Francks wrote:

On 8/23/13 12:38 PM +0900, Geoff Welsh wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:


Snip


Perhaps there's a difference between the Windows and Linux
versions. On
my Windows version of SM 2.20, Tools | Password Manager | Manage
Passwords does bring up the Data Manager, but it's open to the
Passwords
tab, ...


Here on SM 2.20 in OSX it brings up the Data Manger, with Passwords
Only selected on the left side drop-down menu, and it seems to work
fine.

GW


SM 2.20 on OS X here brings up the cookies tab. Obviously, the code is
buggy since it can't reliably execute.


Perhaps Geoff and Trane need to be more specific  OS X.x.x??


10.6.8 Snow Leopard here.


So you're both on SM 2.20 and OS 10.6, but getting different results!

Is OS X.6 all 64 bit or all 32 bit or either??

Hang on, Trane you are showing as Macintosh, Intel Mac OS X 10.6, whilst
you, Geoff, are showing as PPC Mac OS X 10.4 and SM 2.0.14, so I guess
this (posting) machine is not the one Geoff is having problems with!



I'm not having any problem, (see seems to work fine above)...  But, 
yes, I rarely post from that machine, just test for all the problems I 
read about via this old G5 at my desk in the den.


Ever since I got the mini-display-port-to-HDMI cable, the 10.6 machine 
has been mostly a fancy movie player, but I do enjoy the volunteer 
aspect of the SM user community, so I try-out (try for) the problems I 
read about.


That machine /is/ set to boot into 64 bit mode always.  When it was 
released, the option to boot into 32 was default to accommodate possible 
older software, but I set it to 64 always after a year or so.

GW
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Re: Password manager

[Trane Francks]

On 8/25/13 3:51 AM +0900, Geoff Welsh wrote:


That machine /is/ set to boot into 64 bit mode always.  When it was
released, the option to boot into 32 was default to accommodate possible
older software, but I set it to 64 always after a year or so.


My Early 2008 MacBook4,1 can only use the 32-bit kernel and extensions. 
That said, SM is running in 64-bit mode and I wouldn't expect that to be 
an issue.


--
/
// Trane Franckstr...@gol.comTokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
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Re: Password manager

[Ray Davison]

Ed Mullen wrote:



You're not intstalling anything, it's a link that invokes the old-style
password manager.  No installation, no looking for a file in the
profile, just click that link.  I've got it saved as a bookmark so it's
easy to get to.

That is what I said, with 
chrome://passwordmgr/content/passwordManager.xul there is nothing to 
install/add.


ray

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Re: Password manager

[Trane Francks]

On 8/25/13 9:06 AM +0900, Ray Davison wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:



You're not intstalling anything, it's a link that invokes the old-style
password manager.  No installation, no looking for a file in the
profile, just click that link.  I've got it saved as a bookmark so it's
easy to get to.


That is what I said, with
chrome://passwordmgr/content/passwordManager.xul there is nothing to
install/add.

ray

Yep. I've bookmarked it, too. Much cleaner than the Data Manager 
interface. :)


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Re: Password manager

[Trane Francks]

On 8/23/13 12:38 PM +0900, Geoff Welsh wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

A Williams wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Not@home wrote:

I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.

For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the
passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look it
up.

However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer
works.  It
still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to look
one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing all the
cookies that have been installed.

Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?


They're there, but sometimes you have to give SM a little guidance.

The Data Manager has five tabs on the right
(Cookies/Permissions/Preferences/Passwords/Storage). If Passwords
isn't white, click it to select it.

Alternately, above the list of domains is a button that should say
Passwords only. If not, click the down-pointing triangle at the end of
the button and choose that option.

In either case, once you have the list of password-enabled sites, click
Show Passwords at the lower right to see what you need.



There is a change between the 2.19 and 2.20 behaviour here, possibly a
bug but probably a policy decision.
Under 2.19, Tools - Password Manager brought up a list of all domains
*which had passwords saved*.
Under 2.20, Tools - Password Manager brings up a list of all domains
which have any Cookies/Permissions/Preferences/Passwords/Storage saved.

Now you go to the domain required (there are just a lot more of them
that before) and then Passwords will be clickable.


Perhaps there's a difference between the Windows and Linux versions. On
my Windows version of SM 2.20, Tools | Password Manager | Manage
Passwords does bring up the Data Manager, but it's open to the Passwords
tab, ...


Here on SM 2.20 in OSX it brings up the Data Manger, with Passwords
Only selected on the left side drop-down menu, and it seems to work fine.

GW

SM 2.20 on OS X here brings up the cookies tab. Obviously, the code is 
buggy since it can't reliably execute.


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Re: Password manager

[Daniel]

Trane Francks wrote:

On 8/23/13 12:38 PM +0900, Geoff Welsh wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

A Williams wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Not@home wrote:

I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.

For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the
passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look it
up.

However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer
works.  It
still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to
look
one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing
all the
cookies that have been installed.

Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?


They're there, but sometimes you have to give SM a little guidance.

The Data Manager has five tabs on the right
(Cookies/Permissions/Preferences/Passwords/Storage). If Passwords
isn't white, click it to select it.

Alternately, above the list of domains is a button that should say
Passwords only. If not, click the down-pointing triangle at the
end of
the button and choose that option.

In either case, once you have the list of password-enabled sites,
click
Show Passwords at the lower right to see what you need.



There is a change between the 2.19 and 2.20 behaviour here, possibly a
bug but probably a policy decision.
Under 2.19, Tools - Password Manager brought up a list of all
domains
*which had passwords saved*.
Under 2.20, Tools - Password Manager brings up a list of all domains
which have any Cookies/Permissions/Preferences/Passwords/Storage saved.

Now you go to the domain required (there are just a lot more of them
that before) and then Passwords will be clickable.


Perhaps there's a difference between the Windows and Linux versions. On
my Windows version of SM 2.20, Tools | Password Manager | Manage
Passwords does bring up the Data Manager, but it's open to the Passwords
tab, ...


Here on SM 2.20 in OSX it brings up the Data Manger, with Passwords
Only selected on the left side drop-down menu, and it seems to work
fine.

GW


SM 2.20 on OS X here brings up the cookies tab. Obviously, the code is
buggy since it can't reliably execute.


Perhaps Geoff and Trane need to be more specific  OS X.x.x??

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:21.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/21.0 SeaMonkey/2.18 Build identifier: 20130418192405


or

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.20 Build identifier: 20130709211044

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Re: Password manager

[A Williams]

Not@home wrote:

Not@home wrote:

I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.

For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the
passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look it up.

However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer works.  It
still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to look
one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing all the
cookies that have been installed.

Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?


Problem solved.  I went to Password manager and opened it, and observed
that a huge number of sites are listed.  I highlighted one that I new
had a password memorized, and noted that the Password column activated,
and I was able to read my password.

I don't want to print a list of my passwords; I'm happy having a place
in the pc that keeps them, as I would probably misplace a printed list.

Thanks for pointing out how password manager, and data manager, now
work.  It would be nice if password manager limited it's display to
sites that have passwords, as I noted a lot of sites with similar names
in my list under data manager.



umm, I wrote that in this thread yesterday morning.
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Re: Password manager

[WaltS]

On 08/21/2013 08:10 PM, Not@home wrote:

I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.

For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the
passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and look it up.

However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer works.  It
still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to look
one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing all the
cookies that have been installed.

Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?




Select Passwords only from the drop down list above the Domain column.
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Re: Password manager

[Ed Mullen]

Ray Davison wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:


chrome://passwordmgr/content/passwordManager.xul

Put that into your location bar and press Enter.  Then filter on the
domain in question.


That seems to provide the same information as the add-on Edit saved
passwords, and without having to install anything.

Ray




You're not intstalling anything, it's a link that invokes the old-style 
password manager.  No installation, no looking for a file in the 
profile, just click that link.  I've got it saved as a bookmark so it's 
easy to get to.


--
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http://edmullen.net/
Stable relationships are for horses.
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Re: Password manager

[Geoff Welsh]

Daniel wrote:

Trane Francks wrote:

On 8/23/13 12:38 PM +0900, Geoff Welsh wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

A Williams wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Not@home wrote:

I have SeaMonkey 2.20 on a Vista machine.

For sites I don't consider vital, I have SeaMonkey remember the
passwords, and when I forget one, I open Password Manager and
look it
up.

However, with the latest version of SeaMonkey, this no longer
works. It
still acts like it is remembering the passwords, but when I go to
look
one up, the Password manager option opens Data Manager, showing
all the
cookies that have been installed.

Is there a way to look up my forgotten passwords?


They're there, but sometimes you have to give SM a little guidance.

The Data Manager has five tabs on the right
(Cookies/Permissions/Preferences/Passwords/Storage). If Passwords
isn't white, click it to select it.

Alternately, above the list of domains is a button that should say
Passwords only. If not, click the down-pointing triangle at the
end of
the button and choose that option.

In either case, once you have the list of password-enabled sites,
click
Show Passwords at the lower right to see what you need.



There is a change between the 2.19 and 2.20 behaviour here, possibly a
bug but probably a policy decision.
Under 2.19, Tools - Password Manager brought up a list of all
domains
*which had passwords saved*.
Under 2.20, Tools - Password Manager brings up a list of all
domains
which have any Cookies/Permissions/Preferences/Passwords/Storage
saved.

Now you go to the domain required (there are just a lot more of them
that before) and then Passwords will be clickable.


Perhaps there's a difference between the Windows and Linux versions. On
my Windows version of SM 2.20, Tools | Password Manager | Manage
Passwords does bring up the Data Manager, but it's open to the
Passwords
tab, ...


Here on SM 2.20 in OSX it brings up the Data Manger, with Passwords
Only selected on the left side drop-down menu, and it seems to work
fine.

GW


SM 2.20 on OS X here brings up the cookies tab. Obviously, the code is
buggy since it can't reliably execute.


Perhaps Geoff and Trane need to be more specific  OS X.x.x??



requirement for SM 2.20 on Mac is  OS X v10.6  which I have.  Past that 
is irrelevant as the exact same SM is installed on all of them.


GW
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Re: Password manager

[Arne]

Paul B. Gallagher skriver:

The Data Manager has five tabs on the right
(Cookies/Permissions/Preferences/Passwords/Storage).


I have six tabs on my SM 2.20 on Vista. Apart from those you 
mentioned, I also have a Form History tab.


In SM 2.19 the Form History contained everything I had added to any 
form fields on websites, like my name, address, so I don't need to 
write it again when/if I need to fill the form again. The form history 
was helpful for me also for other things, not only to fill in my 
address. ;)


Now, the Form History does not work any more and I wonder why?

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