Re: [Talk-hr] Terminologija
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:41:23 +0200, Dražen Odobašić wrote: često koriste izraz kao 'mapiranje' ili 'trejesanje' što je samo po sebi ok, ali ako želite napisati članak ili objaviti neki rad, to postaje problem jer znanstvena zajednica ne trpi te ružne izraze. Ima li Moglo bi kartiranje i trasiranje (od trasa). Ja sam preveo dio wiki na HR, pa sam stavljao recimo oznaka/tag da bi se bolje snašli novi korisnici. E sad kako su svi programi za kartiranje i trasiranje :-) na engleskom trebalo bi možda u zagrade staviti i eng. naziv. ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
[talk-ph] to anthony balico (Re: please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries)))
anthony, (sending this to the talk-ph list because your mail server tagged my message as spam) I see you have been editing again. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits Your edits seems valid (according to your changeset comment), however, I appeal that you first remove all your previous edits coming from roadguide.ph data. I offered help in removing your edits, but you have not answered any of my messages. Some of us are cleaning your previous edits which should have been devoted to more worthwhile mapping session. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/edits A collaborative volunteer project (like osm) revolves around trust, how can we respect your contributions if you haven't redeemed yourself by cleaning your previous mistakes? On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I mentioned this issue already to the talk-ph For instance this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=8.50999lon=125.9716zoom=15layers=B000FTTT I've already asked him to remove edits coming from roadguide.ph data. But he does have some personal trace in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Basically, Anthony Balico has been adding data coming from roadguide.ph. I flagged his attention over this and he has stopped doing it and started reverting his edits (since August 17, 2009). see the log of his edits here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits The problem is, it's over a month now and this user haven't removed everything. I am concerned because the longer the data stays in the database the more difficult it is to remove. May I request everyone to help anthony remove the data he added since april 15 and earlier. He added more data after april 15, I am assuming this data didn't come from roadguide already because he has traces uploaded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Normally I encourage newbies to correct their own mistakes (I send them messages provately) and don't pass the burden to others. However, anthony's contributions is so extensive and I believe this requires special attention to the rest of group. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] looking for local distributor of GPS data loggers
Guys, I've been using my iBlue 747A+ for a while now and it works generally very well. As a receiver I've had no issues whatsoever. As a logger, it's sometimes a bit tricky, but I can make it work when I rally want to :) Unfortunately our recent trip to the Phils was crippled somewhat by non-functional cars (Mitsubishi is a pile of rubbish - never again!), but I managed to get some good traces anyway (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ronny%20Ager-Wick/traces/). Some are from places without existing satellite images, which was nice. Virgin territory :) Most of the time (since I had some issues with downloading logs) I used it as a receiver and brought my eee PC running eeebuntu everywhere, even on a very bumpy trip to bunduk with a 4wd jeep (SSD instead of hard drive is practical). Anyway, I bought my GPS logger here: http://electronics.shop.ebay.co.uk/GPS-/139835/i.html?_catref=1_fln=1_ipg=_ssn=higheststandardultimate_trksid=p3911.c0.m282 I ended up paying £23 + £3 postage for it, which I think is reasonable. If this item is difficult to get hold of in the Phils and you want one, I'm happy to get you one and either ship it to you directly, or if you're not in a hurry and want to save on postage and customs charges, I can put it in the next balikbayan box for you, and my family can just send it from the local post office in Magalang. This will take a while though, as we're planning on having one box arrive some time before xmas. Ronny. maning sambale wrote: Can you refer some people I can purchase data loggers in Manila? ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] to anthony balico (Re: please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries)))
Maning, To Anthony's credit, he has been deleting some of his contributions that were sourced from roadguide.ph. An example is this changeset from yesterday: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2542850 Eugene On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 7:06 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: anthony, (sending this to the talk-ph list because your mail server tagged my message as spam) I see you have been editing again. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits Your edits seems valid (according to your changeset comment), however, I appeal that you first remove all your previous edits coming from roadguide.ph data. I offered help in removing your edits, but you have not answered any of my messages. Some of us are cleaning your previous edits which should have been devoted to more worthwhile mapping session. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/edits A collaborative volunteer project (like osm) revolves around trust, how can we respect your contributions if you haven't redeemed yourself by cleaning your previous mistakes? On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I mentioned this issue already to the talk-ph For instance this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=8.50999lon=125.9716zoom=15layers=B000FTTT I've already asked him to remove edits coming from roadguide.ph data. But he does have some personal trace in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Basically, Anthony Balico has been adding data coming from roadguide.ph. I flagged his attention over this and he has stopped doing it and started reverting his edits (since August 17, 2009). see the log of his edits here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits The problem is, it's over a month now and this user haven't removed everything. I am concerned because the longer the data stays in the database the more difficult it is to remove. May I request everyone to help anthony remove the data he added since april 15 and earlier. He added more data after april 15, I am assuming this data didn't come from roadguide already because he has traces uploaded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Normally I encourage newbies to correct their own mistakes (I send them messages provately) and don't pass the burden to others. However, anthony's contributions is so extensive and I believe this requires special attention to the rest of group. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] to anthony balico (Re: please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries)))
Good to know that Eugene. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Maning, To Anthony's credit, he has been deleting some of his contributions that were sourced from roadguide.ph. An example is this changeset from yesterday: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2542850 Eugene On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 7:06 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: anthony, (sending this to the talk-ph list because your mail server tagged my message as spam) I see you have been editing again. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits Your edits seems valid (according to your changeset comment), however, I appeal that you first remove all your previous edits coming from roadguide.ph data. I offered help in removing your edits, but you have not answered any of my messages. Some of us are cleaning your previous edits which should have been devoted to more worthwhile mapping session. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/edits A collaborative volunteer project (like osm) revolves around trust, how can we respect your contributions if you haven't redeemed yourself by cleaning your previous mistakes? On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I mentioned this issue already to the talk-ph For instance this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=8.50999lon=125.9716zoom=15layers=B000FTTT I've already asked him to remove edits coming from roadguide.ph data. But he does have some personal trace in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Basically, Anthony Balico has been adding data coming from roadguide.ph. I flagged his attention over this and he has stopped doing it and started reverting his edits (since August 17, 2009). see the log of his edits here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits The problem is, it's over a month now and this user haven't removed everything. I am concerned because the longer the data stays in the database the more difficult it is to remove. May I request everyone to help anthony remove the data he added since april 15 and earlier. He added more data after april 15, I am assuming this data didn't come from roadguide already because he has traces uploaded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Normally I encourage newbies to correct their own mistakes (I send them messages provately) and don't pass the burden to others. However, anthony's contributions is so extensive and I believe this requires special attention to the rest of group. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] MAJOR PROBLEM in San Fernando, Pampanga portion
This morning, as I was about to edit a newly uploaded tracklog for San Fernando Subdivision in San Fernando, Pampanga, I noticed that some nearby roads had been shifted away from their correct position. I have edited/corrected several roads but as I did, I realized that all the adjoining roads had been shifted away from their correct positions (!), and so I have stopped editing/correcting. Anybody know how this BULK shifting happened? Can somebody undo it, please, to save us from the tedious task of having to correct all the errors? Jun ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] MAJOR PROBLEM in San Fernando, Pampanga portion
There are two active editors around this area: junsamboy - I assume thats you ingguana Looking at the history: http://www.openstreetmap.org/history?bbox=120.4879%2C14.8881%2C120.8574%2C15.2011 It seems ingguana edited yesterday with the changeset comment more accurate ways in san fernando Moreover, I didn't see any uploaded gps traces from both users. I suggest you upload your traces as a basis if you think this is more updated and accurate than the yahoo imagery. Of course, you should send ingguana a message. On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:18 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: send me the tracklog, I'll look at it tonight On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Jun Martin jun.mar...@gmail.com wrote: This morning, as I was about to edit a newly uploaded tracklog for San Fernando Subdivision in San Fernando, Pampanga, I noticed that some nearby roads had been shifted away from their correct position. I have edited/corrected several roads but as I did, I realized that all the adjoining roads had been shifted away from their correct positions (!), and so I have stopped editing/correcting. Anybody know how this BULK shifting happened? Can somebody undo it, please, to save us from the tedious task of having to correct all the errors? Jun -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS map copyright expiry dates, FOI request
Good work! This must mean that if we see Ordnance Survey maps in secondhand shops with a copyright date of 1958 or earlier, we should buy them and start scanning them in. (I know about the npemaps site; is there some other collection of out-of- copyright maps to contribute to?) -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
John Smith writes: verifiable, if I go to ny county, ny, us I won't know the difference to the adjcent county etc, we're not supposed to embed symbol information for the renderer and this is exactly what you are suggesting we do. I agree. You wouldn't. However, everybody else would look at OSM and see the New York State county route shield. Oops, this other county route lacks the shield. H what's the difference? A, I see! This other one needs network=us_ny_ny_co. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
2009/9/21 Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com: John Smith writes: verifiable, if I go to ny county, ny, us I won't know the difference to the adjcent county etc, we're not supposed to embed symbol information for the renderer and this is exactly what you are suggesting we do. I agree. You wouldn't. However, everybody else would look at OSM and see the New York State county route shield. Oops, this other county route lacks the shield. H what's the difference? A, I see! This other one needs network=us_ny_ny_co. What you guys are suggesting is just as bad as tagging each way with the file name of the shield, you don't do it and you don't tag these ways with the state or country either what's so specical that these ways need not only the same information that other tags have been made redundent but a super duper special new tag to do the same thing. The country, state and county is rendundent information, it just needs the specific shield type, eg US, I, etc, the rest can be pulled from boundary polygons. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
Anthony wrote: On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com mailto:waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org mailto:o...@inbox.org wrote: Because that's the primary purpose for which maps are created. To inform us how to get from place to place. Be careful...big assumption. You're right, I'm assuming too much. In some parts of the world simply having a route from a to b would be nice to have, and I'm including areas of the world where a lot of detail has already been mapped. BUT in a large area of the world we now have much of the coarse detail mapped, and it IS the fine detail which is now needed. While a single way CAN be used in a lot of places, it has reached the point where expanding a way into multiple parallel elements is actually essential to add the fine detail. Not just for vehicle 'carriageways' on a road, but also to add sidewalk details for pedestrians and bikes. In the case of bridges, where the main function is moving vehicles, there may be a pedestrian way as well, or this may take an alternative route. Trying to decipher what traffic is allowed down a way and what has to take an alternative track when producing a pedestrian or cycle route as opposed to a vehicle route ( and adding lorry restrictions to that ) could be handled by complex tagging of a single way. The fact that pedestrians can simply run across a motorway if they feel inclined does complicate the routing question, and on roads where simply crossing anywhere is practical, this needs to be catered for. Once a route becomes a complex set of linked ways, then tagging each element with 'bridge' DOES become questionable, and a separate bridge element makes sense as well. Should the tagging handle both situations - macro and micro mapping - YES Does it currently - NO We are now at a point where the data needs a number of levels of complexity, and ideas like having the editors display ways as multiple parallel tracks makes perfect sense - especially when you add sidewalk and other detail to that. We have perhaps reached the point where the level of complexity returned should depend on the zoom selected? Taking a large zoom returns single track ways, while small scale maps return all the fine detail of footpaths, road widths and location of road markings like visually impaired persons crossing markers AND if the fine detail has not been specifically mapped yet, it is inferred from the information available in the larger scale tags. In my own case, mapping the footpaths down the side of the roads around here, the problem is showing which side of the road the walkway is, and where it takes an alternative route to the actual road route, perhaps even taking a completely different track. The tags to add these details to a single way are not currently documented, and neither are the guidelines for creating a multiple way route and flaging it as a single element :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?
Hi, I haven't seen billiard and snooker tags. Have you tagged any billiard club, and if you have how have you done it? Cheers! -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Evolution of a map
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:25:37 +0300, Eddy Petrișor wrote: I've done something primitive based on some shell scripting and the mapnik render; the code isn't published yet, but I can publish it, if you want. Please do. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] get the way/node history in josm
maning sambale wrote: possible? Works for me. Not sure what version working history was added, but its fine for me in the current tested version 1981. * make sure you have the History pane enabled. * Select the ways and/or nodes you want history on. * Click reload button on history pane to download history for selected items. * Select any one of the items you have downloaded in the history pane and click Show to browse the history. Cheers rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] NoName layer not updating?
Anyone have any info on the status of the NoName layer? Seems to be at least 3 weeks out of date at the moment. Not showing changes I made 28th Aug: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4831948/history Cheers rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: US is meant for US highway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Highways They uses signs with US printed on it. So the symbol needs the same which is different from US interstates where only a capital I is printed on the shield Ok, that would make sense, better than here where we have apparently random letter combinations on shields which don't occur on the signs at all eg NR NH S with a numeral which does appear on the highway marker ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers inthe wiki or list archives
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Mike N. wrote: In the US, an St prefix abbreviation is always Saint; an St suffix is always street. Are you sure of that? The French could still have left some Sainte behind in the south ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - last_checked
On 16/09/09 13:09, John Smith wrote: This came up before and this should probably be stored in the changeset meta information, not directly against elements within the changeset. Surely changesets should only be created when something changes. What if I mapped a bus route in 2009-03-02, I set the last_checked to that. Then this month I check the same bus route, and see that it hasn't been changed. I should edit that relation and set the last_checked to 2009-09-21. This is easy to do if last_checked is on the relation. But how could I do it on the changeset? Rory signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] NaPTAN bus stop import
Hi Can someone expand a little on what is happening with the NaPTAN bus stop import apparently ongoing in some UK areas? I have taken a look at the wiki but am still a little unsure about a couple of things and don't want to cause any problems with what appears to be a potentially valuable addition to OSM. Pity it wasn't announced on this talk group? 1. What are the basic import and rendering rules? Bus stops seem to appear in various places - all as a relation with two members but rendered variously (but different from the usual bus stop rendering, least in JOSM, my main editor), sometimes only one is rendered, creating the risk that one tag of the pair gets accidentally deleted as an orphan node. 2. If the two members of the relation are supposed to be two stops either side of the road, how does NaPTAN handle where there is physically only one - i.e. one stop on one side of the road is for both directions? Is this the reason for the un-rendered nodes? 3. Where a bus stop has already been manually added prior to the import do we just leave well alone at the moment until the merge process is more advanced? i.e. there will be 3 or 4 bus stops where there should be one or two. Messy - but I can understand the need for consistency in the longer run. 4. The positioning of the NaPTAN-imported bus stops seems generally to be very good vis-à-vis GPS surveyed manually entered bus stops (at least the ones I've stumbled across so far) - but where there is a discrepancy are we allowed to correct yet or not? The bigger issue seems to be where there is only a NaPTAN import but it is out of line with the relevant way - this seems to be much more common in my limited experience. I suspect that the ways may be off (e.g. created from NPE or Yahoo tracing - or simply surveyed at speed from a bike or even a car - which I find significantly less accurate than walking surveys). But I am reluctant to move ways unless I have a GPS survey in which I have confidence (e.g. I know the data point recording frequency and the reported error re the satellite reception). Sorry to ask so many questions but like all innovations - and this one seems potentially very powerful - there are bound to be teething troubles and while I don't want to meddle unnecessarily there are a few issues arising. Cheers - and congratulations to those ho have facilitated this import. Mike Harris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] alt_name tag
Hi, I have edited wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:alt_name should this first go through some suggestion process? -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] get the way/node history in josm
Thanks! On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Rob r...@robreid.co.nz wrote: maning sambale wrote: possible? Works for me. Not sure what version working history was added, but its fine for me in the current tested version 1981. * make sure you have the History pane enabled. * Select the ways and/or nodes you want history on. * Click reload button on history pane to download history for selected items. * Select any one of the items you have downloaded in the history pane and click Show to browse the history. Cheers rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
2009/9/21 Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com: Hi, I have edited wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:alt_name should this first go through some suggestion process? Isn't this what loc_name is for? -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] NaPTAN bus stop import
Mike asked a few questions about the NaPTAN import. There is information on the wiki here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data about surveying (Short: http://is.gd/3w8tv ) I've just been updating some stops that I surveyed on the way to Tesco this morning, and a few I verified when out and about yesterday. I'll try and summarise answers to your questions, based on my limited understanding. The relation is where two stops are known by NaPTAN as a stop area, and is a relation containing related stops. Usually these are pairs of stops on opposite sides of the road I believe, though bus stations (for example) may contain more. As you pointed out sometimes the stops are only one side of the road, and the stop the opposite side is known as a customary stop, naptan:BusStopType=CUS. As per the link above, those CUS stops I've encountered where I've seen a bus stop (or where the opposite stop is labelled buses stop here and opposite) I've been tagging physically_present=no, highway=bus_stop. Where I'd already added bus stops before the import I've been moving tags to the NaPTAN one (such as shelter=yes, layby=yes, route_ref=whatever), then deleting my node, and positioning the NaPTAN node based on the original survey, the verification survey and the NaPTAN location, averaging the three. Your last point, where bus stops import to the wrong side of ways I've been checking all the public traces available in JOSM and repositioning the OSM way to the average of those. If the bus stop is still the wrong side, I nudge it across presuming sufficient inaccuracy in the NaPTAN data to be the width of a road out. All my verification surveys of bus stops though are done standing still under the bus stop flag (where present, or where there is both a flag and an electronic sign, somewhere between them). There is more information about NaPTAN on the wiki, and discussions on the talk-transit list. I believe that the import would happen was announced on this list (or maybe talk-gb) some time ago before talk-transit was started to discuss how it was to be done. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:29:08 +0100, Matt Williams wrote: Isn't this what loc_name is for? Do you have some examples for loc_name usage? It could be that we could use loc_name instead of alt_name. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
Hi, I have edited wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:alt_name should this first go through some suggestion process? It should probably have been redirecting to Key:name like int_name, nat_name, reg_name etc do, especially as alt_name on Map Features links to Key:name. However Key:name only mentions the existence of alt_name (with another mention on the discussion page). An example on Key:name of where alt_name may be used would be a good addition (in my opinion). Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
On 20 Sep 2009, at 20:27, Timothy C Litwiller wrote: county highway = residential surface=paved smoothness=good poor county highway = residential surface=paved smoothness=bad Please don't use smoothness=* as it is not a descriptive tag. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] USB Serial converters - any recommendations?
Hello everyone, I have a MacBook Pro dual-booting Mac OS X 10.5 and Linux (Ubuntu 9.04, kernel 2.6.28). Can use it for most things I need to do but the one thing lacking is a serial port. I got hold of a USB Serial converter and drivers but it didn't work well, sometimes it read data, sometimes it didn't. GPS is the Etrex Legend. So at the moment I have to go back to my older laptop to read GPS tracks, as it has a serial port, which is a bit of a pain (though I can live with it, at least until the older laptop dies...) Can anyone recommend a decent, reliable, USB to serial converter that will be compatible with this hardware? Thanks, Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] NaPTAN bus stop import
Ed Thanks a lot - that is all very clear and helpful and makes perfect sense. I will follow your example. I already tend to average ways where necessary in similar manner to your description and, as I almost always am doing walking surveys, any bus stops that I have manually added have indeed been done stationary at the stop. Kind regards and thanks for the good information Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Ed Loach [mailto:e...@loach.me.uk] Sent: 21 September 2009 10:30 To: 'Mike Harris'; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] NaPTAN bus stop import Mike asked a few questions about the NaPTAN import. There is information on the wiki here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Mergin g_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data about surveying (Short: http://is.gd/3w8tv ) I've just been updating some stops that I surveyed on the way to Tesco this morning, and a few I verified when out and about yesterday. I'll try and summarise answers to your questions, based on my limited understanding. The relation is where two stops are known by NaPTAN as a stop area, and is a relation containing related stops. Usually these are pairs of stops on opposite sides of the road I believe, though bus stations (for example) may contain more. As you pointed out sometimes the stops are only one side of the road, and the stop the opposite side is known as a customary stop, naptan:BusStopType=CUS. As per the link above, those CUS stops I've encountered where I've seen a bus stop (or where the opposite stop is labelled buses stop here and opposite) I've been tagging physically_present=no, highway=bus_stop. Where I'd already added bus stops before the import I've been moving tags to the NaPTAN one (such as shelter=yes, layby=yes, route_ref=whatever), then deleting my node, and positioning the NaPTAN node based on the original survey, the verification survey and the NaPTAN location, averaging the three. Your last point, where bus stops import to the wrong side of ways I've been checking all the public traces available in JOSM and repositioning the OSM way to the average of those. If the bus stop is still the wrong side, I nudge it across presuming sufficient inaccuracy in the NaPTAN data to be the width of a road out. All my verification surveys of bus stops though are done standing still under the bus stop flag (where present, or where there is both a flag and an electronic sign, somewhere between them). There is more information about NaPTAN on the wiki, and discussions on the talk-transit list. I believe that the import would happen was announced on this list (or maybe talk-gb) some time ago before talk-transit was started to discuss how it was to be done. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
2009/9/21 Liz ed...@billiau.net: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: US is meant for US highway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Highways They uses signs with US printed on it. So the symbol needs the same which is different from US interstates where only a capital I is printed on the shield Ok, that would make sense, better than here where we have apparently random letter combinations on shields which don't occur on the signs at all eg NR NH S with a numeral which does appear on the highway marker I don't recall seeing I and US on signs in the US, although it might have been the case where I've been. I-270 shield can be seen in this street view shot: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8ll=40.107159,-83.090973spn=0,359.855804z=14layer=ccbll=40.107047,-83.090972panoid=ICjdA1-PhqqvaAIU0LrLdAcbp=12,20.45,,0,-12.46 US route 33 and state route 161 can be seen here: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8ll=40.101448,-83.132343spn=0,359.927902z=15layer=ccbll=40.101653,-83.132123panoid=fbvnitKC4m487VmCt3QlGQcbp=12,237.87,,0,3.5 None of them have lettered prefixes on signs, the lettering occurs when you refer to them etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] USB Serial converters - any recommendations?
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Nick Whitelegg wrote: Hello everyone, I have a MacBook Pro dual-booting Mac OS X 10.5 and Linux (Ubuntu 9.04, kernel 2.6.28). Can use it for most things I need to do but the one thing lacking is a serial port. I got hold of a USB Serial converter and drivers but it didn't work well, sometimes it read data, sometimes it didn't. GPS is the Etrex Legend. So at the moment I have to go back to my older laptop to read GPS tracks, as it has a serial port, which is a bit of a pain (though I can live with it, at least until the older laptop dies...) Can anyone recommend a decent, reliable, USB to serial converter that will be compatible with this hardware? Thanks, Nick The Belkin model works fine with my lInux stuff Manuf No: F5U409-CU and this one did not Brand: ATEN Manuf No: UC-232-4 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - last_checked
2009/9/21 Rory McCann r...@technomancy.org: On 16/09/09 13:09, John Smith wrote: This came up before and this should probably be stored in the changeset meta information, not directly against elements within the changeset. Surely changesets should only be created when something changes. What if I mapped a bus route in 2009-03-02, I set the last_checked to that. Then this month I check the same bus route, and see that it hasn't been changed. I should edit that relation and set the last_checked to 2009-09-21. This is easy to do if last_checked is on the relation. But how could I do it on the changeset? With the latest JOSM you can set arbitary tags on changesets, then you just add that tag on future changesets if you update it etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new proposals for k:shop
2009/9/20 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: Yeah...I think at this stage, it's useful to input as much detail as possible +1. I agree, though it might be better for some stuff to be put in a separate (more appropriate) db (openyellowpages or something like this, where you (or even the person running the restaurant/shop/company) can put their whole menu, special offers, opening hours, happy hours, complete contacting information and maybe even the possibility to reserve a table), cinema-programm, goods available, etc. even if you have to make up tags along the way, provided their meaning is explicit and self-explanatory. They must be self-explanatory to facilitate a possible future move to a more coordinated scheme, to get that last 5% of value without having to re-survey (highway=footway/cycleway/path should serve as a warning against non-explicit tag names!). which part of footway or cycleway is not self-explanatory? Or landuse=forest? Without definition any tag will remain as ambivalent as language can be (and even more as most mappers are non-native English speakers). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] NaPTAN bus stop import
You'll find that this has been talked about on the talk-gb and the talk-transit mailing lists as they are not of global importance, rather just nation UK importance. Shaun On 21 Sep 2009, at 10:06, Mike Harris wrote: Hi Can someone expand a little on what is happening with the NaPTAN bus stop import apparently ongoing in some UK areas? I have taken a look at the wiki but am still a little unsure about a couple of things and don't want to cause any problems with what appears to be a potentially valuable addition to OSM. Pity it wasn't announced on this talk group? 1. What are the basic import and rendering rules? Bus stops seem to appear in various places - all as a relation with two members but rendered variously (but different from the usual bus stop rendering, least in JOSM, my main editor), sometimes only one is rendered, creating the risk that one tag of the pair gets accidentally deleted as an orphan node. 2. If the two members of the relation are supposed to be two stops either side of the road, how does NaPTAN handle where there is physically only one - i.e. one stop on one side of the road is for both directions? Is this the reason for the un-rendered nodes? 3. Where a bus stop has already been manually added prior to the import do we just leave well alone at the moment until the merge process is more advanced? i.e. there will be 3 or 4 bus stops where there should be one or two. Messy - but I can understand the need for consistency in the longer run. 4. The positioning of the NaPTAN-imported bus stops seems generally to be very good vis-à-vis GPS surveyed manually entered bus stops (at least the ones I've stumbled across so far) - but where there is a discrepancy are we allowed to correct yet or not? The bigger issue seems to be where there is only a NaPTAN import but it is out of line with the relevant way - this seems to be much more common in my limited experience. I suspect that the ways may be off (e.g. created from NPE or Yahoo tracing - or simply surveyed at speed from a bike or even a car - which I find significantly less accurate than walking surveys). But I am reluctant to move ways unless I have a GPS survey in which I have confidence (e.g. I know the data point recording frequency and the reported error re the satellite reception). Sorry to ask so many questions but like all innovations - and this one seems potentially very powerful - there are bound to be teething troubles and while I don't want to meddle unnecessarily there are a few issues arising. Cheers - and congratulations to those ho have facilitated this import. Mike Harris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] USB Serial converters - any recommendations?
On Mon, September 21, 2009 18:48, Nick Whitelegg wrote: snip Can anyone recommend a decent, reliable, USB to serial converter that will be compatible with this hardware? Don't have exactly the same setup, but I can recommend the BAFO BF-810 device. I run Linux on an Acer Aspire One netbook, and the drivers for this device (pl2303) were already present. I use it to get data with gpsbabel from a Garmin Geko 201. HTH, Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
If we were just gathering data for routers, we would map every lane as a separate way, with relations for moving between each pair of adjacent lanes. If we were just gathering data for rendering a single-scale street map, we'd add tags to a single way, and probably not bother with lane info. I think routers ought to be able to cope with a single-way structure with extended tags. I think renderers would struggle (even more) to produce a good-looking multi-scale map if the data is held as multiple ways. I think the most generally-usable structure is a single way with lane info. This could be done with tags (and probably needs to be, to start with), though you might hope that editors would find a way of presenting it so that it looks like a set of parallel ways with tied nodes. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Valent Turkovic wrote: Hi, I have edited wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:alt_name should this first go through some suggestion process? Just to make this somewhat clearer for others In the Balkans there are numerous examples of government and language change, together with complete alteration in the social order. So the street or place might be known locally by an old communist-era name (say Tito Street) but have been officially renamed after some other international dignitary (say Mother Teresa). So while I might say you'll find me in Tito Street, when I'd put my address on an envelope it would have to be Mother Teresa Street. This is in addition to the Croatian examples where the abbreviations of the street name are in common use. A place like Kosovo has streets named in the Serbian language with communist- era labels, then those streets named in Serbian with newer names, and the same streets named in Albanian which are different again. Then these names may be in roman or cyrillic script for Serbian, and Albanian script could be roman or roman with added Turkish letters http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/help.htm gives a large variety (eleven) of name types ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
2009/9/21 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: If we were just gathering data for routers, we would map every lane as a separate way, with relations for moving between each pair of adjacent lanes. If we were just gathering data for rendering a single-scale street map, we'd add tags to a single way, and probably not bother with lane info. Not everything is tagged for the purpose of being rendered, nor should it. I think the most generally-usable structure is a single way with lane info. This could be done with tags (and probably needs to be, to start with), though you might hope that editors would find a way of presenting it so that it looks like a set of parallel ways with tied nodes. We basically need to treat ways as a special type of relation, one that has a number of lanes which can be tagged independent of the way otherwise inherent the tags of the way. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
2009/9/21 Liz ed...@billiau.net: So the street or place might be known locally by an old communist-era name (say Tito Street) but have been officially renamed after some other international dignitary (say Mother Teresa). So while I might say you'll find me in Tito Street, when I'd put my address on an envelope it would have to be Mother Teresa Street. Isn't this just a case of name=* name:official=* name:formal=* I forget which of the above has been used for country names, eg name=Australia, name:official=Commonwealth of Australia or something to that effect ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, John Smith wrote: 2009/9/21 Liz ed...@billiau.net: So the street or place might be known locally by an old communist-era name (say Tito Street) but have been officially renamed after some other international dignitary (say Mother Teresa). So while I might say you'll find me in Tito Street, when I'd put my address on an envelope it would have to be Mother Teresa Street. Isn't this just a case of name=* name:official=* name:formal=* I forget which of the above has been used for country names, eg name=Australia, name:official=Commonwealth of Australia or something to that effect No, it's even bigger as there may be more than 3 names so the example I was given on irc TURBOVTSE lat='42.526111' lon='21.28' 2 albanian spellings 5 serbian ones (without gross name changes as well) TURBOVCE TERBUC Tërbuc TRBOVCE TRBUVCE TERBUFC Tërbufc and two others I can't reproduce as I haven't got any non-Roman script on my computer making 9 names / spellings of the name ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
2009/9/20 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/9/21 Anthony o...@inbox.org: Irrelevant. I never said you had to use relations. In fact, I said you don't. Others have suggested otherwise, to group ways that are on the same physical bridge. why should that be abusing relations? There are several proposals which suggest exactly that (bridge and tunnels, street, collected way). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
2009/9/21 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: and two others I can't reproduce as I haven't got any non-Roman script on my computer making 9 names / spellings of the name Sounds like a fun thing to try and tag, most apps would only expect name=* some would also deal with name:en=* etc I have no idea how to tag this, I doubt alt_name would be the best solution. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
2009/9/21 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: Simple answer to that BULLSHIT. I agree even if maybe I would have put it in less harsh words ;-) The only way to produce fine detail maps is with the correct information. Adding a footpath at the side of a road which along the length of the road meandering from one side to the other, is adjacent to the road in places, or separated by a grass verge, or isolated by bushes can not easily be managed by tags added to the road. Add the pull off for a bus stop, with the changes in the path of the pavement for that. The changes as a footpath merges with other obstructions at road junctions ... and so on. Getting the renderer to guess what the real situation is even with quite complex tags does not make sense. +1 A single way simply does not work at the micro level unless you make the tagging so complex that only a computer could understand it? And it would have to have distances as part of the tags so you know how far the edge of the path is from the arbitrary center line of the base way. +1 cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
Just to make this somewhat clearer for others
In the Balkans there are numerous examples of government and language change,
together with complete alteration in the social order.
So the street or place might be known locally by an old communist-era name
(say Tito Street) but have been officially renamed after some other
international dignitary (say Mother Teresa). So while I might say you'll
find
me in Tito Street, when I'd put my address on an envelope it would have to
be
Mother Teresa Street.
The same happened in East Germany after the Wall came down. Many streets had
their names changed to what it was before 1949, or to something different
altogether.
You should go by the street signs. Whatever they indicate is the official name
('name='). The former socialist name would then be 'old_name'. Currently, there
is no 'old2_name=' or 'very_old_name='. I'd be terribly surprised if the same,
renamed road still has some of the old street signs, in which case there would
be two official names. If the Balkan states were as thorough in wiping out the
last 40 years as they were in East Germany, none of the socialist street signs
will have survived, though.
There was an interesting presentation titled 'Mapping History' at this year's
SoTM which sheds some light on this dilemma and proposes possible ways of
dealing with it, but for now we have to live with name= and old_name=
http://www.vimeo.com/5843154
Oh, and of course you also have the localisations of names 'name:hr='
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name
Cheers
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Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
I think that alt_name is useful to add variants of the name for searching. Often there is an abbreviated and a full version of the same name, and one is not any more 'official' than the other. This is often the case with churches. For streets that have been renamed, I would prefer a former_name or old_name tag, which should also be read by search engines. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Axel Jacobs wrote:
You should go by the street signs. Whatever they indicate is the official
name ('name=').
This assumes there are street signs.
sometimes the wiping our process removes all the signs but fails to put up new
ones
(and this week, our street signs have disappeared. I am unaware of any coup
d'etat in the local council, so I don't know if it is vandalism or if the
council is providing newer signs at normal australian council speed)
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Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
Problem is rather simple with this actually right on target aproach - current practice and it is too damn boring and difficult or is also known as death by thousand paper cuts. I like micromapping - I hate current quality of routing software and I think there is whole posibility to have it more precise and smarter. For that we need precise maps (for all kind of traffic at least). However let's admit - it is currently available only on selected regions, cities or even districts of cities or towns. So move from highway tag (who only last year have found solid ground to work on) to seperate lines + relation ASAP wouldn't be very smart for now. Maybe this need a vision bigger than one proposal? I would suggest a plan with points to move slowly forward to posibility to have maximum features to do micromapping. I would vote for using highway as usual for places where is no difference, and where it comes to split, split off seperate lines (tagged as lines=1) with clear indication which is which. Then we could go futher with discussing how to reform ways/lanes. However, it doesn't change a original topic - I would like to see bridges as seperated physical entities with different ways on the top of it. It *is* wierd when two lines on the bridge are seperated. Just my thoughts, Cheers, Peter 2009/9/21 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2009/9/21 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: Simple answer to that BULLSHIT. I agree even if maybe I would have put it in less harsh words ;-) The only way to produce fine detail maps is with the correct information. Adding a footpath at the side of a road which along the length of the road meandering from one side to the other, is adjacent to the road in places, or separated by a grass verge, or isolated by bushes can not easily be managed by tags added to the road. Add the pull off for a bus stop, with the changes in the path of the pavement for that. The changes as a footpath merges with other obstructions at road junctions ... and so on. Getting the renderer to guess what the real situation is even with quite complex tags does not make sense. +1 A single way simply does not work at the micro level unless you make the tagging so complex that only a computer could understand it? And it would have to have distances as part of the tags so you know how far the edge of the path is from the arbitrary center line of the base way. +1 cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- mortigi tempo Pēteris Krišjānis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
2009/9/21 Axel Jacobs blum...@yahoo.co.uk:
You should go by the street signs. Whatever they indicate is the official
name ('name=').
no, it is an indeece for the official name, but they can have errors
as well, are sometime abbreviated, etc. The official name in Germany
is the one the street is officially named in a legislational act
(usually in the town assembly), and I guess most other countries have
similar procedures...
cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
My Lord! What happened to my question?!? You lot don't half go on. :-) Back to basics: Are we all agreed that, in principle, it would be better to be able to have a single bridge to carry multiple ways? http://osm.org/go/eukOONRtk-- http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8ll=51.380995,-2.350388spn=0.075105,0.16531z=13 To answer Martin's query about a bridges independence: When editing, if you selected a bridge moved it, it wouldn't move any of the ways going over. It was more an off the top of my head comment really. Would having it independent make it easier for the renderers? Would it affect routers? Would a route be described as cross this bridge, then turn left in 200 metres? It would certain save time splitting the ways. If there are reasons why the bridge needs to be tagged with the different types of ways please let me know. The bridge would have a width tag which the mapper would adjust to suit all ways, thus saving the renderer the calculation. Can I check? Are there people here who are suggesting that, in my case, they want to draw all four ways (yes, I know the footpath hasn't been mapped yet) as a single way specify the differences with lane tags? Also I thought street was a band word anybody quoting it was given a slap on the wrist told to go stand on the naughty step :-) Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] get the way/node history in josm
2009/9/21 maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com: Thanks! or simply select and hit CTRL+H cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
Oh dear, I, of course, meant banned not band. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
d f wrote: My Lord! What happened to my question?!? You lot don't half go on. :-) It's the same problem ;) micro mapping requires detail macro model requires everything linked to the ways Back to basics: Are we all agreed that, in principle, it would be better to be able to have a single bridge to carry multiple ways? http://osm.org/go/eukOONRtk-- http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8ll=51.380995,-2.350388spn=0.075105,0.16531z=13 http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8ll=51.380995,-2.350388spn=0.075105,0.16531z=13 To answer Martin's query about a bridges independence: When editing, if you selected a bridge moved it, it wouldn't move any of the ways going over. It was more an off the top of my head comment really. Would having it independent make it easier for the renderers? Would it affect routers? Would a route be described as cross this bridge, then turn left in 200 metres? It would certain save time splitting the ways. If there are reasons why the bridge needs to be tagged with the different types of ways please let me know. The bridge would have a width tag which the mapper would adjust to suit all ways, thus saving the renderer the calculation. THAT is the key point here Width tags and other flags - against accurate mapping of details Can I check? Are there people here who are suggesting that, in my case, they want to draw all four ways (yes, I know the footpath hasn't been mapped yet) as a single way specify the differences with lane tags? Camp one is - single way with lanes=4 + bridge section Camp two would prefer all elements mapped in which case the bridge WOULD be a separate element. At the moment we have a hoch podge somewhere in between, with people splitting ways and adding detail and others putting extra tags that identify the situation without providing the detail. Also I thought street was a band word anybody quoting it was given a slap on the wrist told to go stand on the naughty step :-) Lots of streets around here, but the only things banned would be vehicles on the pedestrian only ones ;) Anyway Top down view - single way with lots of tags such as 'bridge'. Bottom up view - every detail mapped and 'linked' in some way but each with it's own structural element. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: If we were just gathering data for routers, we would map every lane as a separate way, with relations for moving between each pair of adjacent lanes. I disagree with that. Dealing with relations when mapping a route is an unnecessary burden. If we were just gathering data for rendering a single-scale street map, we'd add tags to a single way, and probably not bother with lane info. Depends how micro you want to get. With the detail people seem to want, you'd probably be best off with a paint program :). I think routers ought to be able to cope with a single-way structure with extended tags. I think renderers would struggle (even more) to produce a good-looking multi-scale map if the data is held as multiple ways. I think the most generally-usable structure is a single way with lane info. This could be done with tags (and probably needs to be, to start with), though you might hope that editors would find a way of presenting it so that it looks like a set of parallel ways with tied nodes. John seems to combine everything into a single way and treat the individual lanes (some of the substructures aren't even really lanes) as substructures. Some people want to break every lane into a separate way, and combine them into superstructures. Frankly, these two plans are essentially equivalent. Personally, I don't want either of those. I want the way to be whatever logical unit is used for routing. Then, you can take those ways and break them into lanes (so long as the lanes do not have their own geometries except maybe one node per lane at each endpoint). *Or* you can combine those ways into multiway structures like bridges. As long as you keep all the detail provided by that, I don't really care how you implement it, though. If you implement it in a way which is burdensome to routing software, the routing software can just reformat it before processing, so long as you have all the data. I think it's silly to combine multiple ways into one and then create a structure to break them apart again. And I think it's silly to break ways apart and then create a structure to put them back together again. But if you want to go through that process, so long as you keep the information that's currently there, I'm not going to object. I will object to any plan to combine multiple ways into one which *doesn't* maintain the information provided by having multiple ways. And the pseudocode John last presented did that, plus my discussion with him indicates that he doesn't understand the purpose of keeping ways separate in the first place (the contradictory comments about a bridge being a single way and a physically separated road being more than one way indicate this clearly). On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:21 AM, d f fac63te...@yahoo.com wrote: Back to basics: Are we all agreed that, in principle, it would be better to be able to have a single bridge to carry multiple ways? http://osm.org/go/eukOONRtk I'm not totally convinced that this isn't just a software issue. If the renderers drew the ways as the proper width, they could avoid drawing bridge indicators in places where there isn't any space between the roadways. It wouldn't hurt to add this information even if it's redundant. But I'm not convinced it isn't redundant. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Guenther Meyer d@sordidmusic.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 07:16:45AM +, Valent Turkovic wrote: Hi, I haven't seen billiard and snooker tags. Have you tagged any billiard club, and if you have how have you done it? I would use sport = billard as general description and add a second tag for the specific type: like sport = billard billard = pool or sport = billard billard = snooker There are currently no such tags in OSM Wiki, should we suggest these tags ot is it ok to just start using them? How will then other people know how to tag their billiard clubs? -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, msn: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [josm-dev] New JOSM Address Interpolation plugin
Seems the layout of your plugin dialog got mixed up a bit. Using version 17721 the Optional information: box doesn't include the following lines and fields (city, state, etc.) This was an attempt to create a titled horizontal rule. Is there a native Swing component for this? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?
On 21 Sep 2009, at 14:34, Valent Turkovic wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Guenther Meyer d@sordidmusic.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 07:16:45AM +, Valent Turkovic wrote: Hi, I haven't seen billiard and snooker tags. Have you tagged any billiard club, and if you have how have you done it? I would use sport = billard as general description and add a second tag for the specific type: like sport = billard billard = pool or sport = billard billard = snooker There are currently no such tags in OSM Wiki, should we suggest these tags ot is it ok to just start using them? How will then other people know how to tag their billiard clubs? Just start using them. You don't need to have a vote on a tag to be able to use it. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009, Richard Weait wrote: Excellent start. Changing arterial streets to highway=secondary will help give the city some context. I prefer marking arterials as highway=tertiary. There are exceptions, of course. Some arterials are part of highways connecting cities. No point in demoting the way just because the state took it's number off when it turned maintenance over to a city or county. -- - Joseph Scanlan +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in The Lady Lies ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:21 AM, d f fac63te...@yahoo.com wrote: It was more an off the top of my head comment really. Would having it independent make it easier for the renderers? I think the important question is, does it add information? Probably so. A bridge really is more than just a collection of ways. It might be significantly larger than the ways on it. A bridge should probably have its own geometry. And if a bridge has its own geometry (polygon or line and width) and a layer tag you don't even need the relation, do you? Anything in the area of the bridge with the same layer is located on the bridge. The only issue I see is when when a bridge only consists of a single way, it'd be a pain to add *another* way, with the same geometry, to represent the bridge. So the renderers would have to special case this. Maybe Okay, I have a proposal. I can bet some people are going to hate me for it, but I'm going to propose it anyway... amenity=bridge (or would it be landuse=bridge?), to be attached to a way or polygon. layer tag is used to indicate the layer. If a bridge is equivalent to a single way, you can attach amenity/landuse=bridge to the way (after splitting) instead of creating a separate way. bridge=yes could, and probably should, still be attached to the way. It will indicate that the way is *on* (over?) a bridge, not that the way *is* a bridge. No relations, unless you want to add them as redundant information to make it easier to calculate which ways are on which bridges (but this can be obtained from the geometry, the layer tag, and the bridge tag). Would it affect routers? Would a route be described as cross this bridge, then turn left in 200 metres? I doubt most routers are going to bother with information that isn't part of the way or the nodes directly on the way. It would certain save time splitting the ways. The way should probably still be split, at least to add the layer tag, and arguably to add the bridge=yes, which indicates that the way is indeed on a bridge. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?
Shaun McDonald wrote: sport = billard billard = pool or sport = billard billard = snooker There are currently no such tags in OSM Wiki, should we suggest these tags ot is it ok to just start using them? How will then other people know how to tag their billiard clubs? Just start using them. You don't need to have a vote on a tag to be able to use it. Right, no vote is needed. But I would recommend some entry in the Wiki, where the semantic of this tag is explained. Else we will have the problem in the future that we have them in the db - but nobody knows if it is billard clubs or only the billard table in my cellar (just beside my winecellar and the swimming pool :). Norbert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?
On 21 Sep 2009, at 15:22, Norbert Hoffmann wrote: Shaun McDonald wrote: sport = billard billard = pool or sport = billard billard = snooker There are currently no such tags in OSM Wiki, should we suggest these tags ot is it ok to just start using them? How will then other people know how to tag their billiard clubs? Just start using them. You don't need to have a vote on a tag to be able to use it. Right, no vote is needed. But I would recommend some entry in the Wiki, where the semantic of this tag is explained. Else we will have the problem in the future that we have them in the db - but nobody knows if it is billard clubs or only the billard table in my cellar (just beside my winecellar and the swimming pool :). The documentation comes after some significant usage of the tag. There is no need to spend time documenting everything straight away. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 5:54 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/21 Liz ed...@billiau.net: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: US is meant for US highway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Highways They uses signs with US printed on it. So the symbol needs the same which is different from US interstates where only a capital I is printed on the shield Ok, that would make sense, better than here where we have apparently random letter combinations on shields which don't occur on the signs at all eg NR NH S with a numeral which does appear on the highway marker I don't recall seeing I and US on signs in the US, although it might have been the case where I've been. Oh, signs are cool. US Routes. (the US is invisible on modern signs, but often spoken as Take US-23 south to Marion Ohio or Take Hugh-Ass Twanny-thray sah-owth tah Marion Ohio.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_shield Here is a large collection of Interstate, US Route and some other shields. This hints at the diversity of shields. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_auxiliary_Interstate_Highways As an indication of scope, here is a list of State highways in New York, just one densely populated state of fifty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_State_Routes_in_New_York Putnam county is one of sixty-two counties in New York state. Here is a list of their county roads. Putnam uses a common default county shield. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_county_roads_in_Putnam_County,_New_York Here you can see a few of the non-default county road shields used in some states. Similar defaults and special county road shields are used in Canada as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_highway I've been operating under the presumption that incremental improvements of shield branding across North America would be a good thing. So if initially all county roads show a default county shield until the custom, local county shield is included, I think that is an improvement over the generic UK shield. Thus a tag that supports the beauty of increasingly specific categories leading ultimately to the right shield. Now everything I know about Australian highways I learned from Mel Gibson in _The Road Warrior_ so I have much to learn. What is the shield landscape like in Australia? Relying on polygons for countries / states / counties may encourage both proper ref tagging, and including the right shield graphic. Having the correct polygon is a benefit however we get folks to provide them. Some highways have historic or other cultural weight that earns special signs that may resist selection by polygon. How do polygons help with the special cases like Route 66 and Santa Fe Trail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Trail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_66 Are there special case shields in Australia that you are able to address with boundary polygons and postgres? Best regards, Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Newbie - questions I didn't find definate answers in the wiki or list archives
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Joseph Scanlan n7...@arrl.net wrote: On Sun, 20 Sep 2009, Richard Weait wrote: Excellent start. Changing arterial streets to highway=secondary will help give the city some context. I prefer marking arterials as highway=tertiary. There are exceptions, of course. Some arterials are part of highways connecting cities. No point in demoting the way just because the state took it's number off when it turned maintenance over to a city or county. Sorry, Joseph, I was talking about suburban arterials, which I prefer as secondary. I use tertiary to distinguish the preferred route into and out of the subdivision. Often these are wider or have turn lanes and or traffic signals to aid access to the intersecting secondary road. I sometimes use tertiary as arterial roads in rural areas as you suggest. Best regards. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
2009/9/22 Richard Weait rich...@weait.com: US Routes. (the US is invisible on modern signs, but often spoken as Take US-23 south to Marion Ohio or Take Hugh-Ass Twanny-thray sah-owth tah Marion Ohio.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_shield Only half of Ohio is hicks and from what I'm told they migrated from Kentucky :) *ducks* I've been operating under the presumption that incremental improvements of shield branding across North America would be a good thing. So if initially all county roads show a default county shield until the custom, local county shield is included, I think that is an improvement over the generic UK shield. Thus a tag that supports the beauty of increasingly specific categories leading ultimately to the right shield. Now everything I know about Australian highways I learned from Mel Gibson in _The Road Warrior_ so I have much to learn. What is the shield landscape like in Australia? There is essentially 2 systems, depending on which state you are in and how far they've progressed towards an alphanumeric MABC system. The major of the country has shields similar to the US, we have NH (National Highway) shields that just have a number on them for routes funded by both state and federal governments, we also have NR (National Routes) state funded, but cross state borders, we also have S (state highways) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Australia Relying on polygons for countries / states / counties may encourage both proper ref tagging, and including the right shield graphic. Having the correct polygon is a benefit however we get folks to provide them. I'm pretty sure this info, at least to some extent, can be extracted or extrapolated from TIGER data. In any case as long as the ref/network is tagged sanely it can be a graceful change over, rather than requiring a bunch of images all at once. Some highways have historic or other cultural weight that earns special signs that may resist selection by polygon. How do polygons help with the special cases like Route 66 and Santa Fe Trail? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Trail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_66 Probably similar to our T routes (tourist) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Australian_Tourist_Route_2.svg Are there special case shields in Australia that you are able to address with boundary polygons and postgres? We should be able to address all shields in Australia using polygons and meta information, shields only vary here based on state. Local governments here don't bother shielding routes they fund. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: I've been operating under the presumption that incremental improvements of shield branding across North America would be a good thing. So if initially all county roads show a default county shield until the custom, local county shield is included, I think that is an improvement over the generic UK shield. I don't know where you get the idea that a) there is a UK shield or b) that the mapnik layer is using one. Road references are being shown with a rectangle with heavily rounded corners, which AFAIK is not the shape of a shield in any country, especially not the UK. Now as for the discussion over whether it's preferable to show road numbers superimposed on specific funny shapes on the map, that's one I'll leave for cartographers to decide; personally I think it looks naff but that doesn't stop other people from doing so. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
2009/9/21 Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: I've been operating under the presumption that incremental improvements of shield branding across North America would be a good thing. So if initially all county roads show a default county shield until the custom, local county shield is included, I think that is an improvement over the generic UK shield. I don't know where you get the idea that a) there is a UK shield or b) that the mapnik layer is using one. Road references are being shown with a rectangle with heavily rounded corners, which AFAIK is not the shape of a shield in any country, especially not the UK. Now as for the discussion over whether it's preferable to show road numbers superimposed on specific funny shapes on the map, that's one I'll leave for cartographers to decide; personally I think it looks naff but that doesn't stop other people from doing so. Indeed. I remember this discussion coming up a year or two ago when talking about the colouring of roads in the default Mapnik renderer. Some people wanted each country's roads to be rendered in the style (colouring etc.) that the locals in that country typically display it (cueing discussions about how to transition at country boundaries). However, it was argued (and mostly agreed upon) that we don't want that. If an American wants to create an American-style map with the whole world coloured their way, then that's fine. Likewise for a German or British coloured map. Each map rendering should be uniform across the world and we should avoid having geographically localised differentiated rendering schemes within one map. This is of course just general advice and means nothing about what you do with your own home-grown renderings. The default Mapnik map, however should remain homogeneous. I realise that differently styles road shields are different to rainbow roads but it's worth keeping in mind. -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
2009/9/22 Matt Williams li...@milliams.com: Indeed. I remember this discussion coming up a year or two ago when talking about the colouring of roads in the default Mapnik renderer. Some people wanted each country's roads to be rendered in the style (colouring etc.) that the locals in that country typically display it (cueing discussions about how to transition at country boundaries). However, it was argued (and mostly agreed upon) that we don't want that. If an American wants to create an American-style map with the whole world coloured their way, then that's fine. Likewise for a German or British coloured map. Each map rendering should be uniform across the world and we should avoid having geographically localised differentiated rendering schemes within one map. This is of course just general advice and means nothing about what you do with your own home-grown renderings. The default Mapnik map, however should remain homogeneous. If we want to encourage others to be involved those others expect maps to look a certain way, and if we can do it why shouldn't we to encourage more people to participate, a world wide bland map is a turn off. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Parcel data
I've got parcel data for my county from the property appraiser's office. It's in shp format, which I have converted to osm format. The data lines up with what's already there nicely - there don't seem to be any projection issues and the accuracy appears to be excellent. It is public domain with no use restrictions: There are no use restrictions, other than removing all references to the Property Appraisers Office from any redistributed data. For starters, I want to add the parcels which represent residential parcels (this info is available: I'll include vacant residential, vacant townhome, vacant condo, single family r, townhouse/villa, new res permit, mobile home, mobile family units, retirement communities, miscellaneous residential, and perhaps some others after looking at the code manual) as landuse=residential. I have all the addresses for all of these parcels, so I will also tag the polygons with addr:housenumber and addr:street. I know this isn't strictly the way addr is supposed to work - you're supposed to tag buildings rather than parcels, but I don't have the polygons for the buildings and this is just too good of information to not add at all. I will match up the street names in this shapefile with the street names in the OSM db to make sure there is already a street with the same name somewhere nearby (maybe I'll even ensure the parcel is lined up with the street and there are no streets in between, but I'm not sure how difficult that's going to be). If there are any discrepancies I'll fix them manually or leave those parcels out. I'll identify locations where highway=*s overlap with parcels and verify/fix them manually or leave those parcels out. I'll identify locations where other landuse polygons overlap with parcels and verify/fix them manually or leave those parcels out. I'd also like to include the folio numbers as a unique key so that I can tie this up with the rest of the database (it includes property tax values, heated square footage, owner name, and lots of other goodies which I assume aren't wanted in OSM). I guess I'll use proptax_folio_numb=* for this. Any other suggestions? Objections? The data is at ftp://209.26.172.71/. The documentation is called !Documentation.doc, and the DOR Code Manual.pdf describes all the different land use codes and gives pretty pictures as examples (eventually I'd like to import more than just residential; there are all kinds of goodies in here, but I'm worried about overlap when it comes to the non-residential parcels). There are also polygons for bodies of water which is very detailed down to the pond level and is up to date as of 2008. I can probably add this relatively easily as well - there will be some overlap issues but I think it'll be doable. There are other files there which seem too complicated to bother with. And I believe this information is available for most or all counties in Florida. So if anyone is interested in sharing expertise on this regarding other counties, please let me know. I'm focusing solely on my county, at least for the foreseeable future (I assume no one wants to pay me to do this work, so I'm going to be selfish and stick to my county:). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
Andy Allan writes: I'll leave for cartographers to decide; personally I think it looks naff but that doesn't stop other people from doing so. Sorry, I don't speak English. Is naff good or bad? I hope good. Anyway, US maps are often rendered with the shape of the sign, and I'd like to see them on OSM. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel data
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: The data is at ftp://209.26.172.71/. Username: public Password: access ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?
2009/9/21 Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk: The documentation comes after some significant usage of the tag. There is no need to spend time documenting everything straight away. yes, and if different approaches for the same thing arise, we just a) use both b) define different meaning for one or both of them (see landuse=forest, natural=forest, landuse=wood, natural=wood). Actually it is not a must to document, but I wouldn't discourage people who want to do it: it helps not creating ambiguities which are hard to get rid off, as the OSM-history has proven. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel data
Hi Anthony, I saw your post and noticed that you are from Florida, then checked the documentation to see that you are working with the Hillsborough County data. I am definitely interested in learning about what you come up with and how to do this kind of upload for other counties (although I suspect that most counties do things differently enough that the process will never be as smooth as we would like). One of my colleagues here at USF and I anticipate starting a research project later this fall which could make effective use of address data. We may be able to help a bit as part of the project, once that becomes official, but until then, we'll need to do this on our own time (which in my case means a Mac at home). Neither of us has started working with uploading existing files into OSM, although I've done a fair amount of work using traces, observation, and the Yahoo imagery to map the area around USF. Anyway, I would like to learn more about your interest in OSM and what ways we may be able to cooperate. Please feel free to contact me. Ed Hillsman Edward L. Hillsman, Ph.D. Senior Research Associate Center for Urban Transportation Research University of South Florida 4202 Fowler Ave., CUT100 Tampa, FL 33620-5375 813-974-2977 (tel) 813-974-5168 (fax) hills...@cutr.usf.edu http://www.cutr.usf.edu From: Anthony o...@inbox.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Parcel data To: openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: 71cd4dd90909210834v2e0851e4oce44037716d15...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I've got parcel data for my county from the property appraiser's office. It's in shp format, which I have converted to osm format. The data lines up with what's already there nicely - there don't seem to be any projection issues and the accuracy appears to be excellent. It is public domain with no use restrictions: There are no use restrictions, other than removing all references to the Property Appraisers Office from any redistributed data. For starters, I want to add the parcels which represent residential parcels (this info is available: I'll include vacant residential, vacant townhome, vacant condo, single family r, townhouse/villa, new res permit, mobile home, mobile family units, retirement communities, miscellaneous residential, and perhaps some others after looking at the code manual) as landuse=residential. I have all the addresses for all of these parcels, so I will also tag the polygons with addr:housenumber and addr:street. I know this isn't strictly the way addr is supposed to work - you're supposed to tag buildings rather than parcels, but I don't have the polygons for the buildings and this is just too good of information to not add at all. I will match up the street names in this shapefile with the street names in the OSM db to make sure there is already a street with the same name somewhere nearby (maybe I'll even ensure the parcel is lined up with the street and there are no streets in between, but I'm not sure how difficult that's going to be). If there are any discrepancies I'll fix them manually or leave those parcels out. I'll identify locations where highway=*s overlap with parcels and verify/fix them manually or leave those parcels out. I'll identify locations where other landuse polygons overlap with parcels and verify/fix them manually or leave those parcels out. I'd also like to include the folio numbers as a unique key so that I can tie this up with the rest of the database (it includes property tax values, heated square footage, owner name, and lots of other goodies which I assume aren't wanted in OSM). I guess I'll use proptax_folio_numb=* for this. Any other suggestions? Objections? The data is at ftp://209.26.172.71/. The documentation is called !Documentation.doc, and the DOR Code Manual.pdf describes all the different land use codes and gives pretty pictures as examples (eventually I'd like to import more than just residential; there are all kinds of goodies in here, but I'm worried about overlap when it comes to the non-residential parcels). There are also polygons for bodies of water which is very detailed down to the pond level and is up to date as of 2008. I can probably add this relatively easily as well - there will be some overlap issues but I think it'll be doable. There are other files there which seem too complicated to bother with. And I believe this information is available for most or all counties in Florida. So if anyone is interested in sharing expertise on this regarding other counties, please let me know. I'm focusing solely on my county, at least for the foreseeable future (I assume no one wants to pay me to do this work, so I'm going to be selfish and stick to my county:). -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090921/55681376/attachment-0001.htm -- Message: 8
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
On 09/21/2009 09:20 AM, Anthony wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:21 AM, d f fac63te...@yahoo.com wrote: amenity=bridge (or would it be landuse=bridge?), to be attached to a way or polygon. manmade=bridge? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?
On 21 Sep 2009, at 16:46, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2009/9/21 Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk: The documentation comes after some significant usage of the tag. There is no need to spend time documenting everything straight away. yes, and if different approaches for the same thing arise, we just a) use both b) define different meaning for one or both of them (see landuse=forest, natural=forest, landuse=wood, natural=wood). Speak to someone from the forestry commision or similar and they'll tell you difference between all of the above. Actually it is not a must to document, but I wouldn't discourage people who want to do it: it helps not creating ambiguities which are hard to get rid off, as the OSM-history has proven. I'm not saying it shouldn't be documented. What I don't like seeing is people proposing lots of things that no one has started to tag. It's better to have a few ways to tag something and then decide which is the best method after you have tried a few. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
From: Anthony o...@inbox.org To: d f fac63te...@yahoo.com Cc: OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, 21 September, 2009 15:20:43 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways? I think the important question is, does it add information? Probably so. A bridge really is more than just a collection of ways. It might be significantly larger than the ways on it. A bridge should probably have its own geometry. And if a bridge has its own geometry (polygon or line and width) and a layer tag you don't even need the relation, do you? Anything in the area of the bridge with the same layer is located on the bridge. +1 The only issue I see is when when a bridge only consists of a single way, it'd be a pain to add *another* way, with the same geometry, to represent the bridge. So the renderers would have to special case this. Maybe +1 Okay, I have a proposal. I can bet some people are going to hate me for it, but I'm going to propose it anyway... amenity=bridge (or would it be landuse=bridge?), to be attached to a way or polygon. layer tag is used to indicate the layer. If a bridge is equivalent to a single way, you can attach amenity/landuse=bridge to the way (after splitting) instead of creating a separate way. bridge=yes could, and probably should, still be attached to the way. It will indicate that the way is *on* (over?) a bridge, not that the way *is* a bridge. No relations, unless you want to add them as redundant information to make it easier to calculate which ways are on which bridges (but this can be obtained from the geometry, the layer tag, and the bridge tag). Would it affect routers? Would a route be described as cross this bridge, then turn left in 200 metres? I doubt most routers are going to bother with information that isn't part of the way or the nodes directly on the way. To be clearer I should have said Turn left 200 metres after crossing this river To answer my own question, I think they would use such vernacular. It would certain save time splitting the ways. The way should probably still be split, at least to add the layer tag, and arguably to add the bridge=yes, which indicates that the way is indeed on a bridge. I've spent so much time splitting ways for bridges so it's with regret that I agree they need to be split to define layers. +1 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Guenther Meyer d@sordidmusic.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 07:16:45AM +, Valent Turkovic wrote: Hi, I haven't seen billiard and snooker tags. Have you tagged any billiard club, and if you have how have you done it? I would use sport = billard as general description and add a second tag for the specific type: like sport = billard billard = pool or sport = billard billard = snooker There are currently no such tags in OSM Wiki, should we suggest these tags ot is it ok to just start using them? How will then other people know how to tag their billiard clubs? I tagged a billiard bar a while ago. I've revised my tagging based on this thread: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/315158528 I don't like stuff which forces me to split thing with ;. It's unsemantic. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel data
Hi, Anthony wrote: I've got parcel data for my county from the property appraiser's office. It's in shp format, which I have converted to osm format. [...] Any other suggestions? Objections? Just my usual one: Please make sure that where you have polygons sharing a common border, create an individual way in OSM for this border and use a multipolygon relation for each of the neighbouring parcels so that they may share the same way and nodes, rather than importing two sets of nodes on top of each other (one for parcel A, the other for parcel B). Shapefiles do this but it is a waste of space and actually a loss of information (loss of the info that these are not two borders that happen to coincide but one border). Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel data
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Hi Antony, Here in France, we also have access to the land registry WMS for the whole country (only raster images, not the shapefiles excepted for one county who released also the parcels as shapefiles). We use this source for buildings, street names and addresses but the data are not always up-to-date. We decided to not import parcels because we don't see the interest for the project. It is difficult to maintain (many parcels are modified daily - merged or split at the scale of the country), it is not verifiable (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability) and it does not say anything about the landuse in our case (excepted for the buildings footprints and cemeteries). But I can only speak for my country. I can understand the temptation to import everything when you have a bunch of geodata available but ask yourself if it is really valuable for OSM (I don't have the answer). Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?
Am Montag 21 September 2009 schrieb Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Guenther Meyer d@sordidmusic.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 07:16:45AM +, Valent Turkovic wrote: Hi, I haven't seen billiard and snooker tags. Have you tagged any billiard club, and if you have how have you done it? I would use sport = billard as general description and add a second tag for the specific type: like sport = billard billard = pool or sport = billard billard = snooker There are currently no such tags in OSM Wiki, should we suggest these tags ot is it ok to just start using them? How will then other people know how to tag their billiard clubs? I tagged a billiard bar a while ago. I've revised my tagging based on this thread: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/315158528 looks good! compared with my proposal it has the advantage, that one could use other values then yes, to specifiy the number of tables: sport = billiard billiard:pool = 5 billiard:snooker = 2 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel data
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Hi Antony, Here in France, we also have access to the land registry WMS for the whole country (only raster images, not the shapefiles excepted for one county who released also the parcels as shapefiles). We use this source for buildings, street names and addresses but the data are not always up-to-date. This data is definitely very up-to-date. It is used by the county to impose property taxes, so it has to be up-to-date. They offer new files weekly. But I can only speak for my country. I can understand the temptation to import everything when you have a bunch of geodata available but ask yourself if it is really valuable for OSM (I don't have the answer). I basically just want the address info. Having the parcel polygons is a bonus, but if it proves to be too difficult to maintain I could just move the data to the ways as an interpolation. Also, remember, keeping all of France (population 61 million) up to date is much harder than keeping Hillsborough County, Florida (population 1 million) up to date :). I don't know, I hope I can run a script regularly to provide a list of changes, and take it from there. But worst case scenario I guess I can just remove everything. Which gives me an idea. I guess I should add a hcparcel:verified=no tag to everything I import. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Anthony wrote: Any other suggestions? Objections? Just my usual one: Please make sure that where you have polygons sharing a common border, create an individual way in OSM for this border and use a multipolygon relation for each of the neighbouring parcels so that they may share the same way and nodes, rather than importing two sets of nodes on top of each other (one for parcel A, the other for parcel B). Thanks. I was planning on matching up the shared nodes (they are duplicated in the source data), but I didn't realize you could create a shared way. I'll figure out how to do that before the import. Good suggestion. This leads me to a question. If I mark the addr:housenumber on the multipolygon relation (that's where it would go, right?), will that show up on the map in the two main renderers? Or should I add a node for this? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel data
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: I basically just want the address info. One of these days I want to be able to get door-to-door driving directions which I can *correct* when they're wrong! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?
Valent Turkovic schrieb: Hi, I haven't seen billiard and snooker tags. Have you tagged any billiard club, and if you have how have you done it? http://osmdoc.com/de/tag/sport/billiard - 11 uses http://osmdoc.com/de/tag/sport/snooker - 17 uses Use the one you personally like better. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Patch to render names from routes and custom highway shields on a per country basis
I don't recall seeing I and US on signs in the US, although it might have been the case where I've been. Verified on the way to work today. Even this is not consistent. Some shields have some don't. At least in california. the large overhead signs have only the number but the signs along the highway have it. maybe these are older designs which haven't been replaced. But it doesn't really matter for a map rendering. Even google maps uses the same shield across US. State HW shields are completely different than on the signs. they don't render county HW shields at all. Yahoo renders the county ref numbers but no special shields. Garmin maps are same as google maps. If someone can come up with a workable solution it's fine. I won't spend much time on it it's not really worth all the effort to make it work on a global scale. Doing it for country maps is a different story and can be done on local servers. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] XAPI down?
Hello, Is XAPI working? When I try http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.6/map?bbox=-83.56,42.17,-83.5599,42.1701, I get redirected to http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.6/map?bbox=-83.56,42.17,-83.5599,42.1701which turns to be an empty page. Thanks, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: If we were just gathering data for rendering a single-scale street map, we'd add tags to a single way, and probably not bother with lane info. Depends how micro you want to get. With the detail people seem to want, you'd probably be best off with a paint program :). I'd love to one day see an open source map that looks like this: http://www.mytbi.com/urs/content/design/linksstagei/images/aerials/v8-pr.jpg(minus the part that's a photograph). That's got lane information and much much more, and it's probably pretty much doable in theory. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel data
This data is definitely very up-to-date. It is used by the county to impose property taxes, so it has to be up-to-date. They offer new files weekly. problem is how can you convert the weekly updates into osm updates? You can't delete all data and upload again the next week. I basically just want the address info. Having the parcel polygons is a bonus, but if it proves to be too difficult to maintain I could just move the data to the ways as an interpolation. just address data seems reasonable. It shouldn't change that much and easier to maintain. I don't know, I hope I can run a script regularly to provide a list of changes, and take it from there. But worst case scenario I guess I can just remove everything. Which gives me an idea. I guess I should add a hcparcel:verified=no tag to everything I import. adding a tag like that is useless. everyone can change tags but doesn't have to when data is changed. It has zero information value as soon as others work on the data. same problem with tiger_reviewed=no some mappers use it others don't. any way modified if kind of reviewed but no one can tell how much of a review was done. If you need anything locked add a tag to a changeset. this can't be changed. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.orgwrote: Anthony wrote: Any other suggestions? Objections? Just my usual one: Please make sure that where you have polygons sharing a common border, create an individual way in OSM for this border and use a multipolygon relation for each of the neighbouring parcels so that they may share the same way and nodes, rather than importing two sets of nodes on top of each other (one for parcel A, the other for parcel B). another suggestion. don't make the same mistake as tiger, Massgis, PGS coastline ... imports and tag individual nodes if they are members of a way. don't add too many tags which have no use for osm and can be easily looked up in the source data. also consider to add some less useful tags to the changeset instead. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] XAPI down?
To me it gives an FEHLER 501: Internal Server Error: pe...@peter-desktop:~$ wget -O - http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.6/node[place=country] --2009-09-21 21:09:41-- http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.6/node[place=country] Auflösen des Hostnamen »osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org« 137.110.119.130 Verbindungsaufbau zu osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org|137.110.119.130|:80... verbunden. HTTP Anforderung gesendet, warte auf Antwort... 501 Internal Server Error 2009-09-21 21:10:10 FEHLER 501: Internal Server Error. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] USB Serial converters - any recommendations?
Hi I use: # HARDWARE: # Garmin eTrex (yellow basic model), firmware version 3.60 # Garmin eTrex H, firmware version 3.10 using a # standard generic serial connection also, Prolific Technology, Inc. # PL2303 based chipset USB to serial DB9 converter # TESTED ON: # The script has been used successfully on EeePC with the following OS: # 1. Ubuntu 8.10 Linux, kernel 2.6.24-21-eeepc # 2. CrunchBang 8.10.02 Linux, kernel 2.6.27-8-eeepc-lean # 3. Ubuntu 8.10 Linux desktop edition, kernel 2.6.28-11-generic # 4. Ubuntu 9.04 Linux desktop edition, kernel 2.6.28-13-generic # 4. Ubuntu 9.04 Linux desktop edition, kernel 2.6.28-15-generic the converter works really works really well cheers .dave 2009/9/21 Andrew Errington a.erring...@lancaster.ac.uk: On Mon, September 21, 2009 18:48, Nick Whitelegg wrote: snip Can anyone recommend a decent, reliable, USB to serial converter that will be compatible with this hardware? Don't have exactly the same setup, but I can recommend the BAFO BF-810 device. I run Linux on an Acer Aspire One netbook, and the drivers for this device (pl2303) were already present. I use it to get data with gpsbabel from a Garmin Geko 201. HTH, Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel data
Hi Anthony, One other possibility would be to calculate and upload parcel centroids (points) instead of whole parcels. Someone has done something like this for the City of Albuquerque, New Mexico (as far as I can tell, it's almost the only work that has been done with the data in that are). I stumbled onto this when I did a bit of mapping from a short visit there in August. If you go to edit view, you will see POIs for what appears to be each parcel, with an address. The source tags suggest this probably came from the City of Albquerque's city GIS database. Ed Hillsman -- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:54:36 -0400 From: Anthony o...@inbox.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel data To: Pieren pier...@gmail.com Cc: openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: 71cd4dd90909211054h69662471q6b3deb465fce1...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Hi Antony, Here in France, we also have access to the land registry WMS for the whole country (only raster images, not the shapefiles excepted for one county who released also the parcels as shapefiles). We use this source for buildings, street names and addresses but the data are not always up-to-date. This data is definitely very up-to-date. It is used by the county to impose property taxes, so it has to be up-to-date. They offer new files weekly. But I can only speak for my country. I can understand the temptation to import everything when you have a bunch of geodata available but ask yourself if it is really valuable for OSM (I don't have the answer). I basically just want the address info. Having the parcel polygons is a bonus, but if it proves to be too difficult to maintain I could just move the data to the ways as an interpolation. Also, remember, keeping all of France (population 61 million) up to date is much harder than keeping Hillsborough County, Florida (population 1 million) up to date :). I don't know, I hope I can run a script regularly to provide a list of changes, and take it from there. But worst case scenario I guess I can just remove everything. Which gives me an idea. I guess I should add a hcparcel:verified=no tag to everything I import. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Anthony wrote: Any other suggestions? Objections? Just my usual one: Please make sure that where you have polygons sharing a common border, create an individual way in OSM for this border and use a multipolygon relation for each of the neighbouring parcels so that they may share the same way and nodes, rather than importing two sets of nodes on top of each other (one for parcel A, the other for parcel B). Thanks. I was planning on matching up the shared nodes (they are duplicated in the source data), but I didn't realize you could create a shared way. I'll figure out how to do that before the import. Good suggestion. This leads me to a question. If I mark the addr:housenumber on the multipolygon relation (that's where it would go, right?), will that show up on the map in the two main renderers? Or should I add a node for this? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090921/296cf 538/attachment-0001.htm -- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:56:21 -0400 From: Anthony o...@inbox.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Parcel data To: openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: 71cd4dd90909211056y6f526ffcpd34a834704fac...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: I basically just want the address info. One of these days I want to be able to get door-to-door driving directions which I can *correct* when they're wrong! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: If we were just gathering data for rendering a single-scale street map, we'd add tags to a single way, and probably not bother with lane info. Depends how micro you want to get. With the detail people seem to want, you'd probably be best off with a paint program :). I'd love to one day see an open source map that looks like this: http://www.mytbi.com/urs/content/design/linksstagei/images/aerials/v8-pr.jpg(minus the part that's a photograph). Osmarender does a pretty good job of those bridges: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=27.95907lon=-82.53907zoom=17layers=0B00FTF Notice how it combines the two ways heading south into one bridge even without any additional information besides the fact that the two ways are close together. Mapnik, not as much: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=27.95873lon=-82.53908zoom=17layers=B000FTF I don't believe either renderer factors in width or lane information, but I haven't added that (unfortunately, I apparently can't use the image from mytbi as a source for the number of lanes, because it isn't public domain). Add in lane information, and width information (which is already supported by the current api), and we're getting close to what I see as ideal. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] planet-090916.osm.bz2 - inconsistent dump?
I tried to import planet-090916.osm.bz2 into the postgres database using osmosis, using empty schema from: URL: http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/osmosis/trunk/script/contrib/apidb_0.6.sql Revision: 17698 The dump process: time bzip2 -dc $HOME/import/planet-090916.osm.bz2 | \ $HOME/osmosis/trunk/bin/osmosis \ --read-xml file=-\ --write-apidb-0.6 authFile=$HOME/import/planet-authfile.txt failed after taking 26 hours and 415GB of space with: org.openstreetmap.osmosis.core.OsmosisRuntimeException: Unable to load current way nodes. (...) Caused by: org.postgresql.util.PSQLException: ERROR: insert or update on table current_way_nodes violates foreign key constraint current_way_nodes_node_id_fkey Detail: Key (node_id)=(497587545) is not present in table current_nodes. My current_nodes contains now 434807934 rows and current_ways 12050. The highest numbered node is 497541099 and way is 1999800. Is this inconsistency of the planet.osm file or am I doing something wrong? Is there any way to recover from this or should I restart the whole process from scratch? Which dump would you recommend? -- Marcin Cieslak // sa...@saper.info ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] XAPI down?
Hello, Is XAPI working? When I try http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.6/map?bbox=-83.56,42.17,-83.5599,42 .1701, I get redirected to http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.6/map?bbox=-83.56,42.17,-83. 5599,42.1701which turns to be an empty page. The bounding box you have specified _is_ empty. By the way, it is very small, only 11 x 7 meters. Are you sure that you have specified the right bounds? Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] landuse=meadow = natural=meadow ?
Hello, Why in the tree specified tag landuse=meadow, but not natural=meadow? How is landuse=meadow used by people? This tag looks completely usable! So in Russia all meadows are tagged in different ways, from landuse=village_green to natural=heath/fell. Should we decide the tag landuse=meadow obsolete and replace it with natural=meadow? Same problem in wiki: 1. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:landuse%3Dmeadow 2. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:natural%3Dmeadow ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] planet-090916.osm.bz2 - inconsistent dump?
There is more information available on this wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm/FAQ Shaun On 21 Sep 2009, at 20:33, Marcin Cieslak wrote: I tried to import planet-090916.osm.bz2 into the postgres database using osmosis, using empty schema from: URL: http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/osmosis/trunk/script/contrib/apidb_0.6.sql Revision: 17698 The dump process: time bzip2 -dc $HOME/import/planet-090916.osm.bz2 | \ $HOME/osmosis/trunk/bin/osmosis \ --read-xml file=-\ --write-apidb-0.6 authFile=$HOME/import/planet-authfile.txt failed after taking 26 hours and 415GB of space with: org.openstreetmap.osmosis.core.OsmosisRuntimeException: Unable to load current way nodes. (...) Caused by: org.postgresql.util.PSQLException: ERROR: insert or update on table current_way_nodes violates foreign key constraint current_way_nodes_node_id_fkey Detail: Key (node_id)=(497587545) is not present in table current_nodes. My current_nodes contains now 434807934 rows and current_ways 12050. The highest numbered node is 497541099 and way is 1999800. Is this inconsistency of the planet.osm file or am I doing something wrong? Is there any way to recover from this or should I restart the whole process from scratch? Which dump would you recommend? -- Marcin Cieslak // sa...@saper.info ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] landuse=meadow = natural=meadow ?
Hi Aleksandr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadow It may be cut for hay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hay or grazed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grazing by livestock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestock such as cattle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle, sheep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep or goats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat. As you can see a meadow can be farmed by man. Cheers Dave F. Aleksandr Dezhin wrote: Hello, Why in the tree specified tag landuse=meadow, but not natural=meadow? How is landuse=meadow used by people? This tag looks completely usable! So in Russia all meadows are tagged in different ways, from landuse=village_green to natural=heath/fell. Should we decide the tag landuse=meadow obsolete and replace it with natural=meadow? Same problem in wiki: 1. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:landuse%3Dmeadow 2. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:natural%3Dmeadow ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] landuse=meadow = natural=meadow ?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:58:32PM +0400, Aleksandr Dezhin wrote: Hello, Why in the tree specified tag landuse=meadow, but not natural=meadow? How is landuse=meadow used by people? This tag looks completely usable! So in Russia all meadows are tagged in different ways, from landuse=village_green to natural=heath/fell. Should we decide the tag landuse=meadow obsolete and replace it with natural=meadow? For me a meadow is something actively used for agricultural purposes. Either to generate hay for cows etc - So typically i use it together with a barrier=fence on the way ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen. - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] alt_name tag
2009/9/21 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/9/21 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: and two others I can't reproduce as I haven't got any non-Roman script on my computer making 9 names / spellings of the name Sounds like a fun thing to try and tag, most apps would only expect name=* some would also deal with name:en=* etc I have no idea how to tag this, I doubt alt_name would be the best solution. I'd normally stuff one name that is both easy enough to display and official enough into name= and all the other names in alt_name=, loc_name=, old_name= separated by semicolons, this way they're searchable and there's no confusion about which names are colloquial or official. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
Dave F. wrote: Anthony wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org mailto:o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org mailto:o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: If we were just gathering data for rendering a single-scale street map, we'd add tags to a single way, and probably not bother with lane info. Depends how micro you want to get. With the detail people seem to want, you'd probably be best off with a paint program :). I'd love to one day see an open source map that looks like this: http://www.mytbi.com/urs/content/design/linksstagei/images/aerials/v8-pr.jpg (minus the part that's a photograph). Osmarender does a pretty good job of those bridges: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=27.95907lon=-82.53907zoom=17layers=0B00FTF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=27.95907lon=-82.53907zoom=17layers=0B00FTF Notice how it combines the two ways heading south into one bridge even without any additional information besides the fact that the two ways are close together. Not saying you mapped it but it appears to be missing a trunk_link to the north-west. Also, shouldn't the S.R.589 be a bridge directly below it label in that image. And the link to the North East, doesn't that pass over a river of some sorts? Any idea what that aeroway-bridge is for? Ah! just overlayed Yahoo. Is the interchange going or gone through a major redevelopment? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] XAPI down?
XAPI is running. It just appears to be very busy serving lots of requests at the moment. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Nakor nakor...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Is XAPI working? When I try http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.6/map?bbox=-83.56,42.17,-83.5599,42.1701, I get redirected to http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.6/map?bbox=-83.56,42.17,-83.5599,42.1701which turns to be an empty page. Thanks, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] landuse=meadow = natural=meadow ?
Why not landuse=farm? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dfarm 2009/9/22 Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org For me a meadow is something actively used for agricultural purposes. Either to generate hay for cows etc - So typically i use it together with a barrier=fence on the way ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Can I check? Are there people here who are suggesting that, in my case, they want to draw all four ways (yes, I know the footpath hasn't been mapped yet) as a single way specify the differences with lane tags? Camp one is - single way with lanes=4 + bridge section Camp two would prefer all elements mapped in which case the bridge WOULD be a separate element. Camp three: multiple ways representing paths of travel, grouped with a bridge relation to indicate they share a common bridge. This could probably be seen as a compromise, and is (I think) a good interim solution, if not a very-long-term solution. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] landuse=meadow = natural=meadow ?
Following this logic (may be ...), a lot of things can bring to landuse. Cows can drink from the lake, but we do not tag it as a landuse. Of course I understand that the meadow can somehow be farmed, but this is entirely optional. In the first meadow is a natural formation, which is usually formed by itself, without human intervention. 2009/9/22 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadow It may be cut for hay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hay or grazed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grazing by livestock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestock such as cattle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle, sheep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep or goats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat. As you can see a meadow can be farmed by man. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
