Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

how do i fix a local mistake, as a local, that goes on for miles.

  
>Tuesday, March 10, 2020 5:13 AM -05:00 from Volker Schmidt :
> 
> 
>  Fixing stuff in OSM purely from imagery may not be good.
>
>A local mapper who sees something may add it before any satellite imagery has 
>it.
>
>If you then 'fix' this back to the satellite imagery you will have committed 
>an error,
>and that error may dissuade our most important resource from ever making any 
>further changes- the local mapper.
>
>Be very careful!
 
I second this last line !
 
I am observing an influx of mixed-quality remote edits from Amazon Logistics in 
my area.
I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or potential 
changes (=suspected errors).
What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of being 
able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be armchair-mapping 
efforts.
I do not have a specific proposal, but I would appreciate a tool that helps me, 
as local mapper,  find these edits, and, more importantly we need a new 
approach to organise digesting these massive distributed armchair-mapping 
interventions on OSM data.
I don't realistically think that banning these activities is good for OSM. Not 
dealing in a systematic way with it at all presents, however, a big risk of 
deteriorating the map for two reasons:
(1) bad armchair edits by Amazon and Facebook (and others)
(2) demotivating non-armchair mappers
 
I repeat I do not have a proposal how to handle that. My main concern is that 
the required work for locally checking even only those edits that need checking 
(I am assuming that at least FB has good algorithms to sort out the 
dead-certain corrections beforehand. I am more sceptical with Amazon's changing 
local access tagging to, essentially, "yes" everywhere they have delivered 
something by delivery van. I came across a good number of them, and in most 
cases they were at least dubious)
 
Volker
(Padova, Italy)
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Mikel Maron]

I heard Mapbox is working on this and divide data spatially not as
a sequence of changeset. My impression would be that this way
you could produce a "nice looking map" but most likely it will
break for routing purposes in most horrible ways where ways suddenly
are not connected anymore as some changeset inbetween has been
withdrawn/rejected.

Mapbox Streets Review groups data for review by feature type and spatial 
proximity, for a single day. There’s some complexities but it does maintain the 
routing graph.
I understand Facebook does something similar, but yes their use case does not 
involve routing but only visible map. Nothing wrong with that, fit the process 
to purpose.

> So i'd guess the way you and IIRC Mapbox try to solve the vandalism/bad
edit issue is a labour and machine learning intensive task which you cant win. 
Once you eliminate changesets you fall behind and you pile up inconsistencie
That’s not the case. It is labor intensive, but with well designed processes 
it’s manageable, and you can stay on pace and consistent.
I’d say one issue is not missing problems but being overly conservative, and 
flagging false positives. So flags in OSMCha from Mapbox shouldn’t be 
interpreted as a definite problem, but a suspicion. That’s by design, but it 
would be good to get even more accurate.
> So i'd love to hear more thoughts about long term ideas how to solvethis in a 
>collaborative manner. OSMCha is probably not the final solution but currently 
>it brings together analysis, be it human
or machine learning in a transparent way, not that it currently has an impact 
on the main OSM database.
100%. OSM and OSM validation needs to be collaborative to work. One idea, 
OSMCha could be more integrated into OSM.org, could provide more insightful 
insight in the history view. 
Mikel

On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 5:52 PM, Florian Lohoff  wrote:

On Mon, Mar 09, 2020 at 05:08:10PM -0700, Michal Migurski wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I’m writing to let you know about a new OpenStreetMap project Facebook
> just released. It’s called Daylight Map Distribution. Daylight is a
> complete, downloadable preview of OpenStreetMap data we plan to start
> using in a number of our public maps:

I think its a humble approach to try to identify (un)intentional bad
edits. A lot of people try to deal with this.

I am doing a lot of QA myself and i look at OSMCha changesets in 
my greater surrounding on a daily basis.

I fail to see a sane technical way of producing consistent map data
out of some intermingled data of which some changesets have been 
flagged/removed.

I heard Mapbox is working on this and divide data spatially not as
a sequence of changeset. My impression would be that this way
you could produce a "nice looking map" but most likely it will
break for routing purposes in most horrible ways where ways suddenly
are not connected anymore as some changeset inbetween has been
withdrawn/rejected.

So i'd guess the way you and IIRC Mapbox try to solve the vandalism/bad
edit issue is a labour and machine learning intensive task which you
cant win. Once you eliminate changesets you fall behind and you
pile up inconsistencies. This is, i guess, the reason for
your "one shot" dump of your current internal state.

So from my perspective the vandalism/bad edit issue will only be
fixable if we have some review process (Not that i would suggest one)
for strictly sequential changesets where review must be in order
and a once rejected/withdrawn changeset can only be requeued not
put in that sequential place again. And even then you'll see 
vandalism sneak by with innocent looking edits or intentional
3rd party validation.

So i'd love to hear more thoughts about long term ideas how to solve
this in a collaborative manner. OSMCha is probably not the final
solution but currently it brings together analysis, be it human
or machine learning in a transparent way, not that it currently
has an impact on the main OSM database.

Flo
-- 
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[Talk-it] facebook rilascia la sua versione del planet di OSM

[Maurizio Napolitano]

Immagino abbiate visto anche voi che facebook ha rilasciato una sua
versione del planet.
In pratica, attraverso una serie di strumenti di intelligenza
artificiale, vanno ad individuare possibili errori nei dati inseriti
in osm che, a loro volta, vengono corretti manualmente.
Questo dataset creato finisce poi nei loro sistemi per creare le mappe
integrate in facebook.
Tutta la storia è raccontata qui
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/migurski/diary/392416
Io ne ho fatto una sintesi qua
https://de.straba.us/2020/03/10/daylight-map-distribution-il-dataset-openstreetmap-di-facebook/

-- 
Maurizio "Napo" Napolitano
http://de.straba.us

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[stevea]

On Mar 10, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Michal Migurski  wrote:
> Thanks Mikel for your followup!
> 
> In response to your recommendation that we publish what *didn't* make it 
> through the filter process, we released an OSC diff file:
> 
>   
> https://daylight-map-distribution.s3.amazonaws.com/pbf/planet-2020-03-06_v0.1.osc.bz2
> 
> At this early stage of trying to determine what’s useful for the community, 
> it’s pretty raw. The OSC does not yet differentiate between things we 
> filtered out categorically because we don't show them on our maps, vs. things 
> we filtered out individually because we found a problem with them. Individual 
> tree nodes are an example of the former: they don't get shown or labeled so 
> they’re not in Daylight.
> 
> I appreciate everyone’s questions about this data release. The FB team behind 
> Daylight and our other mapping efforts is well aware that OSM is a tough and 
> curious community!
> 
> -mike.

I realize that OSMCha (as Mapbox describes its use) and the compressed planet 
file extract (as Facebook publishes and begins to describe its use) are 
(respectively) ways to "flag changesets/features with reasons" and are 
characterizable as in "early stages of trying to determine what's useful for 
the community (pretty raw)."

I'd call both of these a reasonable start, especially as Mapbox's pipeline 
seems a bit further along in its development and Facebook's data is in an early 
state, still needing more feedback from the community.

I encourage the community to provide this feedback, perhaps on an 
ongoing/continual basis, and thank both Mapbox and Facebook (well, Mikel and 
Michal) for their participation and good communication here.

Good QA improvement can and does work:  in a project like OSM with corporate 
participants endeavoring on major sub-projects, it is usually based on very 
open communication with very wide community like this.  Yay!  (And conversely, 
as these get better established and "tightened up" into what the community 
expects and can participate in improving, the volume knob here can be turned 
down as these discussions don't have to be quite so public).

SteveA
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Re: [Talk-ca] Grand-Montréal Utilisation de sidewalk pour cartographier pistes multi-usage

[Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais]

Effectivement, ce sont des “faux” trottoirs sans séparation physique ou 
dénivelé avec la rue. Je vais les joindre au way de la rue sans problème!

> On Mar 10, 2020, at 16:49, Pierre Béland  wrote:
> 
> Bonjour Pierre-Léo
> 
> oui on voit bien le trottoir et je ne vois pas de problème à cet endroit pour 
> la piste vélo sur la voie publique, et la piste piéton sur le trottoir. 
> 
> Les problèmes sont plutôt à partir de la Rue Antoine De La Fresnaye. Pour 
> distinguer la piste vélo/piéton de la rue,  deux chemins parallèles sont 
> tracés. Le premier représentant la rue, highway=tertiary (id=42304636) réfère 
> avec une série d'attributs don use_sidepath au deuxième chemin (id=) qui lui 
> décrit la section en bordure de la rue pour les  piéton/vélos. 
> 
> Ce schéma est lourd et pourrait  être simplifié en enlevant les références 
> piéton/velo sur le chemin principal et indiquant sur le deuxième chemin 
> highway=footway, foot=designated, bicycle=designated de façon similaire à ce 
> que l'on retrouve sur le chemin, rue Saint-Joseph.  De même sur la rue 
> Saint-Joseph, on devrait enlever sur le chemin principal les références au 
> sentier piéton/vélo. 
> 
> Il serait aussi possible de tout garder sur un seul chemin. Mais je peux 
> comprendre que l'on préfère dissocier et utiliser deux chemins même si 
> ceux-ci se partagent la même chaussée.
> 
> 
> 
> rue Antoine De La Fresnaye
> 
> Chemin : Rue Antoine De La Fresnaye (42304636)
>   Attributs : 
> "sidewalk"="separate"
> "sidewalk:left"="separate"
> "lanes"="2"
> "maxspeed"="40"
> "name"="Rue Antoine De La Fresnaye"
> "sidewalk:right"="no"
> "highway"="residential"
> "foot"="use_sidepath"
> Et en parrallèle
> Chemin : 766531240
>   Attributs : 
> "highway"="footway"
> "maxspeed"="40"
> 
> Boulevard Saint-Joseph
> ---
> Chemin : Boulevard Saint-Joseph (683782639)
>   Attributs : 
> "sidewalk"="separate"
> "bicycle"="use_sidepath"
> "sidewalk:left"="no"
> "surface"="asphalt"
> "lanes"="2"
> "maxspeed"="60"
> "name"="Boulevard Saint-Joseph"
> "sidewalk:right"="separate"
> "highway"="tertiary"
> "foot"="use_sidepath"
> Et en parrallèle
> Chemin : Boulevard Saint-Joseph (766027404)
>   Attributs : 
> "name"="Boulevard Saint-Joseph"
> "bicycle"="designated"
> "highway"="cycleway"
> "cycleway"="lane"
> "foot"="designated"
> 
>  
> Pierre 
> 
> 
> Le mardi 10 mars 2020 13 h 36 min 03 s UTC−4, Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais 
>  a écrit :
> 
> 
> ___
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> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca 
> 
> Voici une photo aérienne haute résolution de l’endroit pour mieux évaluer le 
> contexte. C’est vraiment un cas particulier, car il y a aussi un trottoir à 
> droite. J’ai ajouté une note sur ce way.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Y0CsomNZLCEEVlX-CDHsv4yplKWxkLOJ 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Michal Migurski]

Thanks Mikel for your followup!

In response to your recommendation that we publish what *didn't* make it 
through the filter process, we released an OSC diff file:


https://daylight-map-distribution.s3.amazonaws.com/pbf/planet-2020-03-06_v0.1.osc.bz2
 


At this early stage of trying to determine what’s useful for the community, 
it’s pretty raw. The OSC does not yet differentiate between things we filtered 
out categorically because we don't show them on our maps, vs. things we 
filtered out individually because we found a problem with them. Individual tree 
nodes are an example of the former: they don't get shown or labeled so they’re 
not in Daylight.

I appreciate everyone’s questions about this data release. The FB team behind 
Daylight and our other mapping efforts is well aware that OSM is a tough and 
curious community!

-mike.


michal migurski- contact info and pgp key:
sf/cahttp://mike.teczno.com/contact.html

> On Mar 10, 2020, at 1:20 PM, Mikel Maron  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Mike and Facebook for doing this. I commented on your diary post, but 
> also adding to the coversation here. It's great to have this insight out and 
> available. There's a good tradition of downstream data processing and 
> redistribution in the community (you could call them packages I supposed) -- 
> from GeoFabrik's regional and country downloads, to OSMQATiles, etc.
> 
> 
> In this case (and I focused on this when we spoke), I'm not sure that the 
> most valuable thing to distribute is what made it through Facebook filters, 
> but rather what didn't make it through and why. That insight is valuable to 
> identify problems that need fixing on a faster basis, notify local 
> communities and other editors, and to build up a corpus of understanding of 
> what problematic edits in OSM look like.
> 
> 
> The most actionable way to do this distribution will be through OSMCha. 
> Through the OSMCha API, you can flag changesets/features with reasons, and 
> can be set up so that any reason tag by Facebook has a "Facebook:" prefix.
> 
> 
> This is what Mapbox has set up. The Mapbox Streets Review team looks at edits 
> every day, and problems are flagged and surfaced in OSMCha. You can see all 
> of this [with this OSMCha 
> filter](https://osmcha.org/?aoi=083b147b-a72c-4026-9db5-b70761a6795c). You'll 
> see the most recent flag as about 3 days ago -- that's the typical time 
> between OSM edit and review / publishing in Mapbox Streets.
> 
> 
> Adding in Facebook flagged problems to OSMCha would provide even stronger 
> signal of problems, and hope to explore implementing it with you all.
> 
> -Mikel
> 
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, March 9, 2020, 08:10:29 PM EDT, Michal Migurski  
> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I’m writing to let you know about a new OpenStreetMap project Facebook just 
> released. It’s called Daylight Map Distribution. Daylight is a complete, 
> downloadable preview of OpenStreetMap data we plan to start using in a number 
> of our public maps:
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/migurski/diary/392416
> 
> Facebook uses maps to let our users find friends, businesses, groups and 
> more. OpenStreetMap (OSM) has a substantial global footprint of map data 
> built and maintained by a dedicated community of global mappers and it’s a 
> natural choice for us. Every day, OSM receives millions of contributions from 
> the community. Some of these contributions may have intentional and 
> unintentional edits that are incompatible with our needs. Our mapping teams 
> work to scrub these contributions for consistency and quality. 
> 
> What’s Included in the Daylight Map Distribution:
> 
> • A PBF planet file composed of 100% OSM data, released under the terms 
> of the Open Database License.
> • Only those edits which have been validated to contain no malicious 
> vandalism or unintentional errors so we can show them in our display maps
> 
> This is just an initial first release, and we’re looking for feedback from 
> the community to decide what would be useful to release in the future and how 
> frequently. I’d be interested to hear any response you might have about it!
> 
> -mike.
> 
> 
> michal migurski- contact info and pgp key:
> sf/cahttp://mike.teczno.com/contact.html
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] BIPT antennas

[Vucodil via Talk-be]

Hi,

@Midgard

> Vucodil, where can I find the source for the advanced data about the 
> antennas, like the reference
> codes? In the list I downloaded from BIPT, I only find the coordinates.

I'm accessing a kind of endpoint/api (via javascript). When you click on 
"search for a site", insert nothing and search, you get a list of IDs.
In this case, you are accessing the same endpoint.

@Lionel

> One solution could be to map everything as telecom=antenna if they don't 
> match a mast/tower (already mapped), and put a "fixme=check if a mast or 
> tower is present". Note that on a rooftop, you generally don't have a mast 
> (it > is a small support structure that we can just consider being 
> "telecom=antenna" and maybe in the future, we could use a "antenna:support=*" 
> tag ;-) ).

ok so we could also check if the antenna is located on a osm building. If it is 
the case, the fix me should not be needed.

I will adapt the import proposal with what Lionel suggested and with the other 
suggestions. And then, I will bring it back to the mailing list.

Best regards

Vucodil

March 10, 2020 11:50:31 AM CET Lionel Giard  wrote:
@ Vucodil :
One solution could be to map everything as telecom=antenna if they don't match 
a mast/tower (already mapped), and put a "fixme=check if a mast or tower is 
present". Note that on a rooftop, you generally don't have a mast (it is a 
small support structure that we can just consider being "telecom=antenna" and 
maybe in the future, we could use a "antenna:support=*" tag ;-) ). [1]

For mast and tower, use the obvious existing one, or map it if it is visible 
(some of them can be easily seen on imagery), and use the man_made=mast or 
tower tag like usual and change it later on if needed (if a future proposal is 
done for it). :-p 

For man_made=antenna, i don't think it is better than telecom=antenna (neither 
one or the other was ever approved formally). The telecom key was created to 
refine the telecom tagging following the same idea that was used for the power 
infrastructure (with the power key). I'm completely in favor of redesigning the 
telecom infrastructure tagging like the french community started to push 
(especially focused on cable and fiber infrastructure at the moment), as they 
seem quite experienced with infrastructure tagging as they were involve in 
power tagging... :-p 
So using telecom=antenna seems more logical in order to already start using a 
"proper" tag instead of a general tag like man_made=antenna (that we could 
regret later on). And it can always be changed if/when someone do a proper 
proposal and approval process later on (as that would be the only difference, 
as the subkey will probably be identical).

antenna:use seems functionally equivalent to the subtag communication:*=yes/no 
(like communication:mobile_phone=yes/no). I don't see an improvement as the 
communication:*=yes/no is already used for all mast/tower (including 
power=tower ! As they can have antenna on them (i don't know if that's the case 
in Belgium)), so we should maybe use it for antenna too. ^_^ One example that i 
did map like that for an antenna (on top of a watertower here) was 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5968512028 .  

[1] I work at one of our telecom company and i can see their structure data 
(pylons, mast, ...) and it is very detailed but unfortunately it is closed 
data.  :D But antenna on rooftop have a structure type : "self-supported roof 
structure". ;-) 
We should push BIPT to open more infrastructure data. :-D *dreaming* 

Le lun. 9 mars 2020 à 22:18, Vucodil via Talk-be  a 
écrit :

Hello everyone,

Already thanks for all the feedback! I answer some of your questions in the 
following topics:

Continuous update (@Midgard and @rodeo.be )

It was in the back of my head but I didn't want to plan it yet. I will probably 
work on that but not soon.
Note that the list of BIPT antennas is updated monthly. Is there server for 
scheduled scripts within OSM BE ?

Workflow (@Midgard)

The distance triggering manual review has been changed to 25m.

> 3) And even then, just dumping elements in OSM without manual review is not 
> considered best
   > practice, but since it's only nodes, things are relatively simple and I 
won't object. I would
   > just like to see that they're not placed too close to any other existing 
node, but that can be
   > checked automatically.

Like one meter? Is there JOSM tool for that?

BIPT (@Thibault Rommel)

I agree. I updated the proposal

Latitude and longitude as tag (@s8evq and @Midgard)

That's a mistake. I only wanted to explain that I use the longitude and 
latitude provided in the dataset. It has been updated.

Open data Portal (@rodeo.be)

Good idea. I will inform BIPT of the positive feedback of the OSM BE community 
and I will kindly push them to do so.

Precision of the localisation

Looking alone at 9000 nodes for manual review is quite some work. Would it be 
acceptable to have a FIXME tag stating that the 

Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Florian Lohoff]

On Mon, Mar 09, 2020 at 05:08:10PM -0700, Michal Migurski wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I’m writing to let you know about a new OpenStreetMap project Facebook
> just released. It’s called Daylight Map Distribution. Daylight is a
> complete, downloadable preview of OpenStreetMap data we plan to start
> using in a number of our public maps:

I think its a humble approach to try to identify (un)intentional bad
edits. A lot of people try to deal with this.

I am doing a lot of QA myself and i look at OSMCha changesets in 
my greater surrounding on a daily basis.

I fail to see a sane technical way of producing consistent map data
out of some intermingled data of which some changesets have been 
flagged/removed.

I heard Mapbox is working on this and divide data spatially not as
a sequence of changeset. My impression would be that this way
you could produce a "nice looking map" but most likely it will
break for routing purposes in most horrible ways where ways suddenly
are not connected anymore as some changeset inbetween has been
withdrawn/rejected.

So i'd guess the way you and IIRC Mapbox try to solve the vandalism/bad
edit issue is a labour and machine learning intensive task which you
cant win. Once you eliminate changesets you fall behind and you
pile up inconsistencies. This is, i guess, the reason for
your "one shot" dump of your current internal state.

So from my perspective the vandalism/bad edit issue will only be
fixable if we have some review process (Not that i would suggest one)
for strictly sequential changesets where review must be in order
and a once rejected/withdrawn changeset can only be requeued not
put in that sequential place again. And even then you'll see 
vandalism sneak by with innocent looking edits or intentional
3rd party validation.

So i'd love to hear more thoughts about long term ideas how to solve
this in a collaborative manner. OSMCha is probably not the final
solution but currently it brings together analysis, be it human
or machine learning in a transparent way, not that it currently
has an impact on the main OSM database.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
UTF-8 Test: The  ran after a , but the  ran away


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[Talk-de] Vergleichsplugin Amt/OSM ? e: Datenqualität open data NRW und OSM

[Ludwig Baumgart]

Hallo Otto,

wenn Du als QGIS-ler-Spezialist mit einem Plugin etwas für uns OSM-ler 
entwickeln könntest, fände ich das sehr gut.


Ganz im gleichen Sinn wie Florian und Martin:

Hier in BaWü sind zwar nicht einmal die amtlichen Luftbilder für OSM 
freigegeben, aber es gibt in nahezu jeder Kommune (über deren 
Rahmenvertrag mit dem LGL-BW) die umfänglichen amtlichen Datensätze 
(NAS-Format für PostgisDB) incl. Luftbild. Da wäre ein solcher 
"Gebäude-Vergleichs-Plugin" zwischen OSM-Gebäuden und amtlichen Gebäuden 
sehr wertvoll.


Denn der Vergleich

1.) der ALKIS-Gebäude auf der ATKIS-Karte www.geoportal-bw.de einerseits 
und


2.) der OSM-Gebäuden andererseits mit

3.) der Realität vor Ort in der Kommune   zeigt noch viel mehr Mängel 
beider Systeme als die von Dir beschriebenen Ungenauigkeiten in NRW.    
Schlecht für uns? Nein, eher eine große Herausforderung für Aktive und 
Kommunen in BW!


Denn durch einen solchen Vergleichs-Plugin mit QGIS als vermittelnder 
Software (als Zweitsystem) ließen sich die Fehler durch Prüfung an der 
einen einzigen Realität vor Ort finden und in beiden(?!) Systemen 
beseitigen(?!).  Danach könnten beide Systeme in ihren jeweiligen 
Stärken besser für die Kommune genutzt werden.


mhG ludwig

p.s. übrigens sind die "Stadtwerke" STL-Lüdenscheid ja  äusserst 
aufgeschlossen gegenüber OSM und Opensource und nutzen diese stark. 
Glückwunsch!


On 06.03.20 22:52, Florian Lohoff wrote:

On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 10:19:16PM +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

im Prinzip, in einem Land mit hoher Mapperdichte wie Deutschland,
sicherlich ja, aber zunächst sind es ja nur Abweichungen, die man
durch den Vergleich der Daten feststellen kann, um rauszubekommen,
welche Version richtiger ist, muss man vor Ort nachschauen.
“Integrieren“ ist sicherlich gut, aber das heißt natürlich nicht blind
ersetzen von allem was wir gemappt haben durch amtliche Daten...

Das kann ich nur unterschreiben. Auch das ALKIS hat definitiv
Abweichungen von der Realität. Ich sehe die jeden Tag.

Was aber Spaß macht ist das ALKIS und derer Veränderungen als Indikator
zu benutzen zu sehen wo sich etwas ändert.

Zugeteilte Adressen, veränderte, neue, abgerissene Gebäude.

Flo

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[stevea]

Similar to what Mikel described as "what Mapbox has set up," I humbly suggest 
that Facebook offer the wider OSM community (here on OSM-talk is a good place 
to do so) something similar.  As we (here) better understand what, exactly, 
Facebook's QA processes are as they use (and improve) OSM data, the wider OSM 
community can offer a critique of them, suggest more robust improvements to 
workflow (if we see that there are any to offer) and everybody wins:  both OSM 
and Facebook together.  If "better data" are the ultimate goal (and aren't 
they?!) there should be no argument with these suggestions.  Facebook might say 
"our QA process are proprietary" (and they'd be correct), but in the spirit of 
"Open" being OSM's first name, I hope not.

I say this as a professional software and data quality 
scientist/engineer/analyst (since the 1980s) and long-time contributor to OSM 
(for most of its history).  It is nearly always true that improvements to 
"quality process" can be made, especially as these are opened up to the wider 
scrutiny of a knowledgable and experienced community, as we are here.  Indeed, 
"quality process improvement" is itself correctly a near-constant process.  
Whether at the level of individual contributor or corporate behemoth, such 
wider scrutiny in a project like OSM should be par for the course (expected, 
"business as usual").

SteveA
California


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ajouter des objets à une relation ?

[Shohreh]

Jean-Christophe Becquet wrote
> Par exemple pour rechercher les points d'eau dans un rayon de 500m autour
> d'un itinéraire cyclable, j'utilise la requête suivante :
> 
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Rte


Merci.



--
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Re: [Talk-ca] Grand-Montréal Utilisation de sidewalk pour cartographier pistes multi-usage

[Pierre Béland via Talk-ca]

Bonjour Pierre-Léo
oui on voit bien le trottoir et je ne vois pas de problème à cet endroit pour 
la piste vélo sur la voie publique, et la piste piéton sur le trottoir. 

Les problèmes sont plutôt à partir de la Rue Antoine De La Fresnaye. Pour 
distinguer la piste vélo/piéton de la rue,  deux chemins parallèles sont 
tracés. Le premier représentant la rue, highway=tertiary (id=42304636) réfère 
avec une série d'attributs don use_sidepath au deuxième chemin (id=) qui lui 
décrit la section en bordure de la rue pour les  piéton/vélos. 

Ce schéma est lourd et pourrait  être simplifié en enlevant les références 
piéton/velo sur le chemin principal et indiquant sur le deuxième chemin 
highway=footway, foot=designated, bicycle=designated de façon similaire à ce 
que l'on retrouve sur le chemin, rue Saint-Joseph.  De même sur la rue 
Saint-Joseph, on devrait enlever sur le chemin principal les références au 
sentier piéton/vélo. 

Il serait aussi possible de tout garder sur un seul chemin. Mais je peux 
comprendre que l'on préfère dissocier et utiliser deux chemins même si ceux-ci 
se partagent la même chaussée.


rue Antoine De La Fresnaye

Chemin : Rue Antoine De La Fresnaye (42304636)  Attributs : 
    "sidewalk"="separate"
    "sidewalk:left"="separate"
    "lanes"="2"
    "maxspeed"="40"
    "name"="Rue Antoine De La Fresnaye"
    "sidewalk:right"="no"
    "highway"="residential"
    "foot"="use_sidepath"
 Et en parrallèleChemin : 766531240
  Attributs : 
    "highway"="footway"
    "maxspeed"="40"
Boulevard 
Saint-Joseph---
Chemin : Boulevard Saint-Joseph (683782639)
  Attributs : 
    "sidewalk"="separate"
    "bicycle"="use_sidepath"
    "sidewalk:left"="no"
    "surface"="asphalt"
    "lanes"="2"
    "maxspeed"="60"
    "name"="Boulevard Saint-Joseph"
    "sidewalk:right"="separate"
    "highway"="tertiary"
    "foot"="use_sidepath"
Et en parrallèle
Chemin : Boulevard Saint-Joseph (766027404)  Attributs : 
    "name"="Boulevard Saint-Joseph"
    "bicycle"="designated"
    "highway"="cycleway"
    "cycleway"="lane"
    "foot"="designated"

 
Pierre 
 

Le mardi 10 mars 2020 13 h 36 min 03 s UTC−4, Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais 
 a écrit :  
 
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  Voici une photo aérienne haute résolution de l’endroit pour mieux évaluer le 
contexte. C’est vraiment un cas particulier, car il y a aussi un trottoir à 
droite. J’ai ajouté une note sur ce way.
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] {Disarmed} Re: #AttributionIsNotAnOption

[Cédric Frayssinet]

Le 10/03/2020 à 15:42, Vincent Bergeot a écrit :
> Le 10/03/2020 à 15:15, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :
>> Ils ont précisé :
>>
>> "Il nous faudra ensuite un temps avec notre prestataire pour
>> effectuer cette modification sur l’annuaire de l’éducation nationale."
>
> Peut-être rappeler que c'est au programme de seconde depuis septembre
> 2019, une compétence obligatoire définie par l'Éducation Nationale
> "Contribuer de manière collaborative à OpenStreetMap"  -> ok je sors !
>
> Merci Arnaud d'avoir noté cela, je suis pourtant passé plus d'une fois
> sur cet annuaire.
>
>
Il semblerait que cet annuaire ait été changé très récemment, car il
n'embarquait pas de carte de localisation.

Vincent, faut pas sortir, au contraire ;)

Cédric


-- 

Sur Mastodon : @bristow...@framapiaf.org 

Promouvoir et soutenir le logiciel libre 

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] tile.osm.be

[Marc M.]

Le 10.03.20 à 20:51, Jonathan Beliën a écrit :
> I need to start a powerful server to run the database update 
> and then the tiles update

this part is scripted ? a cloud server ?
what's the hd size, type (hdd<>sdd) and number of cpu cores  needed
to update all tiles in one day ?

Regards,
Marc

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] recycling ou waste_disposal

[osm . sanspourriel]

Le 10/03/2020 à 21:07, Stéphane Péneau - stephane.pen...@wanadoo.fr a
écrit :


je pense rester sur "waste_disposal"

+1


La palme de l'écoblanchiment revient à EDF/Orano qui parce de recyclage
alors que 99,5 % du combustible usé n'est pas recyclé et quand il l'est
c'est une fois.


Comme Marc je pense que c'est une poubelle point barre.

Dans l'agglo de Lorient, alors qu'il existe des poubelles jaunes
(recyclable) et vertes (compostable) il y en a aussi une destinée à
l'enfouissement. Comme elle comporte de la matière organique, ils font
(ou envisagent de) récupérer ces 10-15%. Il n'empêche, ça reste la
poubelle "ultimes". Il va de soi par ailleurs que de cette poubelle sont
retirés les métaux, a minima les métaux ferreux.

Marc : x est inférieur à 1 en France puisque la Bretagne est la région
française où les bouteilles sont les mieux recyclées et ça tourne autour
de 70 %. Pour obtenir un meilleur taux tu prends le modèle allemand :
bouteilles y compris PET avec consigne. Comme ça déjà tu as un taux de
99 % et plus.

Petit gag : sur un site de production de produit typiquement allemand et
faiblement alcoolisé, certaines bouteilles sont mal imprimées. Alors les
bouteilles sont ouvertes, le produit remis dans le réacteur (afin de ne
pas payer la taxe sur l'alcool !). Quant à la bouteille de verre soit
elle est consignée et repart au lavage soit elle ne l'est pas et est
jetée dans les conteneurs à verre.

Jean-Yvon

Le 10/03/2020 à 20:36, Marc M. - marc_marc_...@hotmail.com a écrit :

Bonjour,

je n'ai pas compris ta question :
- veux tu faire la différence entre ceux brûlés et ceux enfouis ?
si oui, hormis inscription sur le conteneur, cela me semble
difficilement vérifiable, et la destination à mon avis ne change rien au
tag osm.
. ou veux tu un tag pour les 2, et tu hésites entre poubelle et
recyclage ? si oui, si un objet osm n'est que d'un type, je trouve que
recycling:waste est du greenwhasing : récupérer un peu d'énergie
ou récupérer les bouts de fer dans des cendres, ce n'est pas du
recyclage... déjà que le recyclage conventionnel n'est quasi jamais un
cycle (après x fois, le PET devient un vetement qui serra ensuite brulé,
il est plus correcte de parler de sous-cyclage).

Cordialement,
Marc

Le 10.03.20 à 18:48, Stéphane Péneau a écrit :

Salut,

dans ma communauté d'agglo, après avoir pris quelques renseignements,
j'ai appris que les déchets "tout venant", sont :

- envoyés dans un incinérateur qui produit de l'énergie

ou

- triés grossièrement (plastique, métaux ferreux) puis enfouis pour ce
qui reste.

La question est donc comment tagger les conteneurs pour ces déchets :

amenity=recycling + recycling:waste=yes

ou bien

amenity=waste_disposal


J'avais choisi waste_disposal, mais maintenant j'ai un doute.


A+

Stf

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Sören Reinecke via talk]

> But "you don't really know what you're talking about" is a rude thing to say. And expressing a belief that FB is not capable of doing this to a small, or even large degree, is not based on any factual inquiry of what they've done.Thank you. We cannot really know how Facebook is working on Quality Assurance. Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map DistributionFrom: Mikel Maron To: talk@openstreetmap.org,"Marc M." CC: It's fair to point out that "no malicious vandalism or unintentional errors" is overdoing it, no one can claim 100% on this. But "you don't really know what you're talking about" is a rude thing to say. And expressing a belief that FB is not capable of doing this to a small, or even large degree, is not based on any factual inquiry of what they've done.* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaronOn Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 04:06:05 PM EDT, Marc M.  wrote: Michal Migurski wrote> Only those edits which have been validated to contain no malicious vandalism or unintentional errors so we can show them in our display mapsI get the impression that you don't really know what you're talkingabout. There are many "complaints" that FB does not respond enoughtto community feedback. So to believe that FB is capable of validatingeven the slightest change is naive at best.I spend a lot of time checking every changeset in 2 comfort zones, Iregularly detect anomalies, but to know if it is correct or not takes time.Regards,Marc___talk mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk___talk mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Mikel Maron]

Thanks Mike and Facebook for doing this. I commented on your diary post, but 
also adding to the coversation here. It's great to have this insight out and 
available. There's a good tradition of downstream data processing and 
redistribution in the community (you could call them packages I supposed) -- 
from GeoFabrik's regional and country downloads, to OSMQATiles, etc.


In this case (and I focused on this when we spoke), I'm not sure that the most 
valuable thing to distribute is what made it through Facebook filters, but 
rather what didn't make it through and why. That insight is valuable to 
identify problems that need fixing on a faster basis, notify local communities 
and other editors, and to build up a corpus of understanding of what 
problematic edits in OSM look like.


The most actionable way to do this distribution will be through OSMCha. Through 
the OSMCha API, you can flag changesets/features with reasons, and can be set 
up so that any reason tag by Facebook has a "Facebook:" prefix.


This is what Mapbox has set up. The Mapbox Streets Review team looks at edits 
every day, and problems are flagged and surfaced in OSMCha. You can see all of 
this [with this OSMCha 
filter](https://osmcha.org/?aoi=083b147b-a72c-4026-9db5-b70761a6795c). You'll 
see the most recent flag as about 3 days ago -- that's the typical time between 
OSM edit and review / publishing in Mapbox Streets.


Adding in Facebook flagged problems to OSMCha would provide even stronger 
signal of problems, and hope to explore implementing it with you all.

-Mikel

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron






On Monday, March 9, 2020, 08:10:29 PM EDT, Michal Migurski  
wrote: 





Hi everyone,

I’m writing to let you know about a new OpenStreetMap project Facebook just 
released. It’s called Daylight Map Distribution. Daylight is a complete, 
downloadable preview of OpenStreetMap data we plan to start using in a number 
of our public maps:

    https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/migurski/diary/392416

Facebook uses maps to let our users find friends, businesses, groups and more. 
OpenStreetMap (OSM) has a substantial global footprint of map data built and 
maintained by a dedicated community of global mappers and it’s a natural choice 
for us. Every day, OSM receives millions of contributions from the community. 
Some of these contributions may have intentional and unintentional edits that 
are incompatible with our needs. Our mapping teams work to scrub these 
contributions for consistency and quality. 

What’s Included in the Daylight Map Distribution:

    • A PBF planet file composed of 100% OSM data, released under the terms of 
the Open Database License.
    • Only those edits which have been validated to contain no malicious 
vandalism or unintentional errors so we can show them in our display maps

This is just an initial first release, and we’re looking for feedback from the 
community to decide what would be useful to release in the future and how 
frequently. I’d be interested to hear any response you might have about it!

-mike.


michal migurski- contact info and pgp key:
sf/ca            http://mike.teczno.com/contact.html


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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Mikel Maron]

It's fair to point out that "no malicious vandalism or unintentional errors" is 
overdoing it, no one can claim 100% on this. 

But "you don't really know what you're talking about" is a rude thing to say. 
And expressing a belief that FB is not capable of doing this to a small, or 
even large degree, is not based on any factual inquiry of what they've done.

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron






On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 04:06:05 PM EDT, Marc M. 
 wrote: 





Michal Migurski wrote
> Only those edits which have been validated to contain no malicious vandalism 
> or unintentional errors so we can show them in our display maps

I get the impression that you don't really know what you're talking
about. There are many "complaints" that FB does not respond enought
to community feedback. So to believe that FB is capable of validating
even the slightest change is naive at best.
I spend a lot of time checking every changeset in 2 comfort zones, I
regularly detect anomalies, but to know if it is correct or not takes time.

Regards,
Marc


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Re: [Talk-de] Gesuch: Trufi Association sucht Mapper und Städte #öpnv

[Christoph Hanser]

Hallo zusammen,

letzten Juli hatten wir hier eine Diskussion, ob es eine gute Idee ist, OSM
mit Busrouten in Entwicklungsländern zu füllen, oder ob dadurch die Karten
unleserlich werden, weil die vielen Routen alles schlechter lesbar machen.

Morgen darf ich auf der FOSSGIS2020 einen Vortrag über Trufi halten und
würde mich freuen, wenn wir im Anschluss darüber übre diese Frage,
diskutieren könnten.

Viele Grüße,
Christoph



Christoph Hanser
Hans-Sander-Str. 3, 21107 Hamburg, 0163/4791397


El dom., 21 de jul. de 2019 a la(s) 16:23, Christoph Hanser (
christoph.han...@gmail.com) escribió:

> Hi Martin,
>
> das war noch mal eine gute Zusammenfassung:
>
> - Wenn es eine starke lokale Community gibt, dann bringen wir die Routen
> nach OSM.
> - Wenn wir keine lokale Community haben (aber aus irgendeinem Grund doch
> Routen), dann bringen wir sie nicht gezwungenermaßen nach OSM.
>
> Alles andere wäre auch merkwürdig, weil wir ja die App meistens für Städte
> zur Verfügung stellen, die schon ihre Routen nach OSM gebracht haben (wie
> jetzt in Accra).
>
> In La Paz können wir die Routen also gut nach OSM bringen, weil wir Locals
> fürs Review haben.
>
> Im Grunde ist das allerdings auch immer unser Wunsch, weil unsere App ja
> nur so gut ist wie die Routen, die in der App benutzt werden. Deshalb haben
> wir in Cochabamba die OSM-Community erweitert (von 1 auf 5 ;)).
>
> Wenn wir Routen nach OSM bringen und in der App nutzen, sollte das sowieso
> noch einen Verbesserungs-Effekt haben: In der App kann man eine Änderung
> der Route vorschlagen. Zurzeit per Feedback-Mail, in Zukunft per getracktem
> Geo-Schnippsel. Den müssen wir uns anschauen und dann, wenn es mehrere
> Wünsche dieser Art gibt, nach OSM mergen. Insofern haben wir dort m.E.
> groundtruth vom Feinsten.
>
> Weiß denn jemand von euch von Städten und Communities, in denen formeller
> public transport vorherrscht und die eine solche App gerne hätten?
>
> Viele Grüße,
> Christoph
>
> Viele Grüße,
> Christoph
>
>
>
> El sáb., 20 de jul. de 2019 a la(s) 15:53, Martin Koppenhoefer (
> dieterdre...@gmail.com) escribió:
>
>>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>> > On 20. Jul 2019, at 09:19, Christoph Hanser 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Wir dachten nur bisher, dass sich
>> > alle freuen, wenn wir die Routen nach OSM bringen, insofern war das
>> bisher
>> > unser "open data"-Ansatz. Ist das nicht so?
>>
>>
>> Kommt drauf an.
>> wenn vor Ort eine Community entsteht oder es sonst einen backchannel
>> gibt, um die Daten bei Fehlern zu korrigieren, und Updates zu machen, dann
>> ist es ggf. besser, die Sachen in OpenStreetMap zu haben, wenn das aber
>> sowieso nicht stattfindet bzw. die Qualität nicht den Standards entspricht,
>> dann lieber parallel ;-)
>>
>> Unsere Stärke ist groundtruth, Menschen die dort wo sie sich auskennen
>> (oder wo sie hinkommen) das eintragen, was ihnen wichtig vorkommt.
>>
>> Gruß Martin
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Changeset Governance [was: Announcing Daylight Map Distribution]

[Sören Reinecke via talk]

> aerial imagery would point to armchairing?no. Changesets made during armchair mapping need to include the hashtag "#armchair" and the source the mapper used in the `source` changeset tag.> happened to the good old source tagwhere source=survey would point to mappers on the groundin my recent commit I changed the idea to include `source=survey` for changesets made during surveys.CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Changeset Governance [was: Announcing Daylight Map Distribution]From: Frederik Ramm To: talk@openstreetmap.orgCC: Hi,On 3/10/20 18:48, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:> *Spirit of Changeset Governance:* Basically it introduces a way to> distinguish a changeset made during a survey from a changeset made> during armchair mapping using information received from imagery or> external data. In the spirit of more professional Quality Assurance a> way for us and the performers to better control validation processes and> to take actions more precisely.Nothing against the idea but what happened to the good old source tagwhere source=survey would point to mappers on the ground, and source=XYZaerial imagery would point to armchairing?ByeFrederik-- Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"___talk mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk___
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[Daniel @jfd553]

Cool, thanks!

Sent from Galaxy S7


From: James 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 1:56:16 PM
To: Daniel @jfd553 
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

Project #173. I've set you as an experienced mapper and you should be able to 
see it.

http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/173

On Tue., Mar. 10, 2020, 1:05 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
mailto:jfd...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Sounds good to me. Can we try it as if I don't have the data? I might then be 
able to clearly document the procedure in the wiki.



Daniel



From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 10:38
To: Daniel @jfd553
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada



The task is setup in task manager, it was just more convenient serving data via 
the service. I can publish the task and invite those that have enough 
experience (they would need the orthoganalized data though) Which I could 
provide over slack(osm-ca.slack.com)



On Tue., Mar. 10, 2020, 10:33 a.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
mailto:jfd...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Hi James,

That is too bad, but there is no rush at this stage because we are simply 
refining the import procedure. In the meantime, I propose to act as “Task 
manager”. I can provide some tiles (task frame and orthogonalized buildings’ 
footprint) to those who wish to try the import procedure.

I should start importing today with a first tile. If changes/additional 
information are needed to adjust the procedure, I suggest we discuss it on the 
import Talk page [1]



Daniel



[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Canada_-_The_Open_Database_of_Buildings





From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2020 20:13
To: Daniel @jfd553
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada



Ok so I have some bad news, the data.osmcanada.ca 
server that was being hosted by a friend on AWS was shutdown and wiped. I will 
need to get time to get things setup on another server to host the 
microinstance: https://github.com/osmottawa/micro-data-service
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] recycling ou waste_disposal

[Stéphane Péneau]

Le 10/03/2020 à 20:36, Marc M. a écrit :

Bonjour,

je n'ai pas compris ta question :
tu hésites entre poubelle et recyclage ?


C'est ça, j'hésite entre les 2 solutions pour qualifier les conteneurs à 
déchets ménagers.


Mais la lecture de la page wikipedia sur le recyclage me donne une piste:

Le terme /recyclage/ fait l'objet d'une définition réglementaire dans le 
Code de l'Environnement : « Recyclage : toute opération de valorisation 
 par 
laquelle les déchets, y compris les déchets organiques, sont retraités 
en substances, matières ou produits aux fins de leur fonction initiale 
ou à d'autres fins. Les opérations de valorisation énergétique 
 
des déchets, celles relatives à la conversion des déchets en combustible 
 et 
les opérations de remblaiement ne peuvent pas être qualifiées 
d'opérations de recyclage^1 
 . »


Donc on oublie la partie production d'énergie. Il ne reste que 
l'opération de triage/recyclage (fer, plastique) qui pourrait entrer 
dans cette catégorie. Ce qui représente une faible partie du volume 
initiale. A priori, et sauf si je lis des arguments contraires, je pense 
rester sur "waste_disposal"



Stf


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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Marc M.]

Michal Migurski wrote
> Only those edits which have been validated to contain no malicious vandalism 
> or unintentional errors so we can show them in our display maps

I get the impression that you don't really know what you're talking
about. There are many "complaints" that FB does not respond enought
to community feedback. So to believe that FB is capable of validating
even the slightest change is naive at best.
I spend a lot of time checking every changeset in 2 comfort zones, I
regularly detect anomalies, but to know if it is correct or not takes time.

Regards,
Marc

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Re: [OSM-talk] Changeset Governance [was: Announcing Daylight Map Distribution]

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 3/10/20 18:48, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:
> *Spirit of Changeset Governance:* Basically it introduces a way to
> distinguish a changeset made during a survey from a changeset made
> during armchair mapping using information received from imagery or
> external data. In the spirit of more professional Quality Assurance a
> way for us and the performers to better control validation processes and
> to take actions more precisely.

Nothing against the idea but what happened to the good old source tag
where source=survey would point to mappers on the ground, and source=XYZ
aerial imagery would point to armchairing?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Changeset Governance [was: Announcing Daylight Map Distribution]

[Sören Reinecke via talk]

> a changeset with survey info is source=survey, not source=local knowleadgePerdon. It is a mistake> Apart from that, are you suggesting that the main tag become a hashtagor is there a more fundamental idea in the page?Sry, I work with hashtags mostly. Didn't realize the tags for changesets. We could use tags thenCheersSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Changeset Governance [was: Announcing Daylight Map Distribution]From: "Marc M." To: talk@openstreetmap.orgCC: Hello,Sören Reinecke wrote :> created a wikipage for it. See > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Changeset/Governance .a changeset with survey info is source=survey, not source=localknowleadge and putting a source on the changeset is not mandatory but avery good praticeApart from that, are you suggesting that the main tag become a hashtagor is there a more fundamental idea in the page?At the very least, such a non-consensual idea should be found somewhereother than in a namespace that might think it's a good practice sharedby the community.Regards,Marc___talk mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk___
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] tile.osm.be

[Jonathan Beliën]

Hello Maarten,

Indeed, I'm the one maintaining https://tile.openstreetmap.be/
And indeed, it hasn't been updated since a few months now.

I've put that tileserver online for the use of the company I work for (SPRL 
GEO-6 BVBA) and I convinced my boss to make it publicly available and make it 
the official OSMBE tileserver (thus the copyright referencing GEO-6).

The update process is indeed not fully automated : I need to start a powerful 
server to run the database update and then the tiles update (in 3 versions : 
`name` + `name:fr` + `name:nl`) and the whole process takes a whole day to 
complete.
The update is not live because we (GEO-6) decided not to invest such a "big" 
amount of money in a server that could handle a live (or at least regular) 
automated update (and the current tilserver is still one of the biggest - 
meaning more expensive - server we manage and pay for).
Unfortunately, those last few months have been quite busy and I didn't have (or 
at least didn't take) the time to run the update.

So, yes, the service *will stay online* and we are not planning to discontinue 
it !
The update is a "best-effort" update and I'll try to update it as regularly as 
possible (but without any guarantee).

That being said, I'm also investigating some other solutions for the OSMBE 
tileserver to simplify the update but didn't find any suitable solution so far 
(adding vector tiles is also part of my research).

Any suggestion or proposal of help is more than welcome !

Have a nice evening.

Jonathan Beliën
OpenStreetMap Belgium


Mar 10 mars 2020, à 11:35, Tim Couwelier a écrit :
> As I understood from Jonathan, the process isn't fully automated yet. Was 
> supposedly to get updated on a near-weekly basis, but it must've slipped from 
> attention.
> I'd guess that moving on towards a full automation of the process would go a 
> long way?
> 
> Op di 10 mrt. 2020 om 11:05 schreef rodeo .be :
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> I see this tile server has not been updated the last months. Is the future 
>> of that tile service unsure?
>> 
>> Btw, we asked several organiations to use those tiles in the past (see here 
>> ): "*Met 
>> OpenStreetMap Belgium hebben we in samenwerking met een sponsor een 
>> tile-server optgezet die wel expliciet bedoeld is om te gebruiken in uw 
>> situatie.*" 
>> 
>> I think it would be worth it to keep that service! How can we help?
>> 
>> KR
>> Maarten
>> ___
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>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
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Re: [OSM-talk] Changeset Governance [was: Announcing Daylight Map Distribution]

[Marc M.]

Hello,

Sören Reinecke wrote :
> created a wikipage for it. See 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Changeset/Governance .

a changeset with survey info is source=survey, not source=local
knowleadge and putting a source on the changeset is not mandatory but a
very good pratice
Apart from that, are you suggesting that the main tag become a hashtag
or is there a more fundamental idea in the page?
At the very least, such a non-consensual idea should be found somewhere
other than in a namespace that might think it's a good practice shared
by the community.

Regards,
Marc

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Services BANO v2 indisponibles

[Vincent de Château-Thierry]

Bonsoir,

Le 10/03/2020 à 20:28, Marc M. a écrit :


Le 10.03.20 à 18:53, Samy Mezani a écrit :

J'ai remarqué qu'il était impossible de mettre à jour la correspondance
entre FANTOIR et OSM sur https://cadastre.openstreetmap.fr/fantoir.


je vais discuter avec Jocelyn de la mise en place d'une redirection de
bano v1 vers bano v2 ou l'ajout d'un énorme avertisement "bano v1 n'est
plus maintenanu, les bugs connu le resteront car bano v2 est proche de
la sortie et est dispo (sauf export) sur
https://dev.cadastre.openstreetmap.fr;


Merci Marc mais ça n'est pas si binaire, sinon ça serait fait depuis 
longtemps. On peut en parler plus précisément via un ticket et/ou une PR.
Pour répondre à Samy (et à Jean-Yvon dans le fil d'à côté) : la mise à 
jour "à la demande" est désactivée sur la version dite v2, qui est mise 
à jour chaque nuit. La fonction est cassée sur la v1 en effet, mais va 
réapparaître sur la v2, dont j'aimerais faire coïncider la "sortie" avec 
le WE toulousain de début avril ;)


vincent

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] recycling ou waste_disposal

[Marc M.]

Bonjour,

je n'ai pas compris ta question :
- veux tu faire la différence entre ceux brûlés et ceux enfouis ?
si oui, hormis inscription sur le conteneur, cela me semble
difficilement vérifiable, et la destination à mon avis ne change rien au
tag osm.
. ou veux tu un tag pour les 2, et tu hésites entre poubelle et
recyclage ? si oui, si un objet osm n'est que d'un type, je trouve que
recycling:waste est du greenwhasing : récupérer un peu d'énergie
ou récupérer les bouts de fer dans des cendres, ce n'est pas du
recyclage... déjà que le recyclage conventionnel n'est quasi jamais un
cycle (après x fois, le PET devient un vetement qui serra ensuite brulé,
il est plus correcte de parler de sous-cyclage).

Cordialement,
Marc

Le 10.03.20 à 18:48, Stéphane Péneau a écrit :
> Salut,
> 
> dans ma communauté d'agglo, après avoir pris quelques renseignements,
> j'ai appris que les déchets "tout venant", sont :
> 
> - envoyés dans un incinérateur qui produit de l'énergie
> 
> ou
> 
> - triés grossièrement (plastique, métaux ferreux) puis enfouis pour ce
> qui reste.
> 
> La question est donc comment tagger les conteneurs pour ces déchets :
> 
> amenity=recycling + recycling:waste=yes
> 
> ou bien
> 
> amenity=waste_disposal
> 
> 
> J'avais choisi waste_disposal, mais maintenant j'ai un doute.
> 
> 
> A+
> 
> Stf

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Services BANO v2 indisponibles

[Marc M.]

Bonjour,

Le 10.03.20 à 18:53, Samy Mezani a écrit :
> J'ai remarqué qu'il était impossible de mettre à jour la correspondance
> entre FANTOIR et OSM sur https://cadastre.openstreetmap.fr/fantoir.

je vais discuter avec Jocelyn de la mise en place d'une redirection de
bano v1 vers bano v2 ou l'ajout d'un énorme avertisement "bano v1 n'est
plus maintenanu, les bugs connu le resteront car bano v2 est proche de
la sortie et est dispo (sauf export) sur
https://dev.cadastre.openstreetmap.fr;

Cordialement,
Marc

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Re: [Talk-it] Digest di Talk-it, Volume 160, Numero 21

[cxc]

Meglio sarebbe che in ogni comune qualcuno creasse il progetto

e si facesse referente delle eventuali mancanze e/o aggiornamenti e 
magari qualcuno che coordinasse una  pagina principale con l'elenco dei 
comuni ed il relativo link


il tutto tramite overpass per estrarre, UMAP per produrre ed aggiornare.

potrebbe anche essere dinamica, ma credo che andrebbe in sofferenza 
overpass.


grazie a voi per esserci e per crederci...

Carlo

Il 10/03/20 20:10, Fra Mauro ha scritto:

È molto bella, complimenti.

Se fosse semplice "localizzarla" per tutti i comuni italiani, forse 
potrebbe essere proposta a qualcuno (ANCI, Regioni, Protezione Civile, 
... ).


In questo momento la probabilità di successo è molto bassa, ma se 
qualcuno è interessato potrebbe diffondersi rapidamente.


Il 10 Marzo 2020 15:42:31 CET, cxc  ha scritto:

Buongiorno,

in previsione della possibile (e per mio pensiero unica alternativa)
chiusura totale di tutti i servizi non necessari, per il comune dove
lavoro che ho curato abbastanza in OSM.. ho impostato questa
mappa..inviata ai colleghi che sono al lavoro...

ma sono certo che non sara' mai utilizzata



https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/it/map/negozi-di-alimentari-e-farmacie_429732#13/44.0661/10.1072


saluti... e salute a tutti!

Carlo A. Nicolini

Il 10/03/20 15:14, talk-it-requ...@openstreetmap.org ha scritto:

Invia le richieste di iscrizione alla lista Talk-it
all'indirizzo talk-it@openstreetmap.org Per iscriverti o
cancellarti attraverso il web, visita
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it oppure, via
email, manda un messaggio con oggetto `help' all'indirizzo
talk-it-requ...@openstreetmap.org Puoi contattare la persona
che gestisce la lista all'indirizzo
talk-it-ow...@openstreetmap.org Se rispondi a questo
messaggio, per favore edita la linea dell'oggetto in modo che
sia più utile di un semplice "Re: Contenuti del digest della
lista Talk-it..." Argomenti del Giorno: 1. Servizio di
consegna a domicilio (Francesco Ansanelli) 2. Re: nuovo modulo
ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al 10/3/2020) (Damjan Gerl)
3. Re: nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al
10/3/2020) (Lorenzo Rolla) 4. Re: Servizio di consegna a
domicilio (Cascafico Giovanni) 5. Re: Servizio di consegna a
domicilio (Francesco Ansanelli) 6. Re: Servizio di consegna a
domicilio (Alessandro Sarretta)

Message: 1 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:39:25 +0100 From:
Francesco Ansanelli  To: openstreetmap
list - italiano  Subject: [Talk-it]
Servizio di consegna a domicilio Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Buongiorno lista,
vista la situazione di crisi sto cercando come dare maggiore
visibilità alle attività che offrono il servizio in oggetto. E
chiedo consiglio a tutti Ovviamente, "delivery" è il tag
che oggi può essere di aiuto a tutti coloro che non si possono
spostare. Nel mio comune stiamo cercando di censire i luoghi
che fanno (o che si stanno organizzando) per le consegne.
Facciamo qualcosa a livello nazionale? Oppure ognuno si fa il
suo umap? ;) Grazie a chi mi risponderà Francesco
-- parte successiva -- Un allegato
HTML è stato rimosso... URL:

<http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/attachments/20200310/1755d71c/attachment-0001.htm>

Message: 2 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:39:54 +0100 From: "Damjan
Gerl"  To: talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti
(aggiornato al 10/3/2020) Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Direi che sarebbe
utile un form pdf. A noi sul lavoro hanno dato un modulo
leggermente differente, questo:
https://www.damjan.net/tmp/modulo(2).pdf Damjan --
Original Header --- From : "Lorenzo Rolla"
rolla.l...@gmail.com To : "openstreetmap list - italiano"
talk-it@openstreetmap.org Cc : Date : Tue, 10 Mar 2020
12:10:36 +0100 Subject : [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale
spostamenti (aggiornato al 10/3/2020)

Gentilissimi, allego il link che rimanda al modulo
ufficiale del ministero per gli spostamenti (aggiornato
all'intero territorio nazionale). Chiedo, se opportuno e
fattibile, l'opportunità di creare un pdf editabile a
disposizione della cittadinanza, visto la lunga
"quarantena" imposta dalle au

Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Alan Mackie]

I would personally prefer it if a certain bit of software said "GPX traces"
or similar for the public traces rather than "survey" when autofilling
sources, but I never remember to raise it in the bug tracker.

On Tue, 10 Mar 2020, 18:09 Volker Schmidt,  wrote:

> My personal approach: when I map I routinely use three sources in
> parallel: survey,  GPX track, Mapillary images, satellite photos (picking
> the one with the most up-to -date pictures in the area, and aligning them
> to the Italian PCN2006 pictures, which are by our experience the
> best-aligned pictures available here).
> As a consequence (I am not always consistent, to be honest) I would have
> something like "source=survey; GPX tracks; Mapillary; Esri Images aligned
> with PCN2006"
> But my mapping is often not anything near to armchair mapping, I am using
> the images in addition to the other tools.
> I would not consider the fact that sattellite images are used, on its own
> as an indication that the date need to taken with caution.
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 15:54, Sören Reinecke 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I thought also about this and planned it to integrate in my concept.
>>
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution
>> From: Joseph Eisenberg
>> To: Sören Reinecke
>> CC: Volker Schmidt ,talk@openstreetmap.org
>>
>>
>> My understanding is that the common way to describe armchair mapping,
>> based on aerial imagery, is to identify the imagery source. So I often
>> write:
>>
>> Changeset Comment: "Added and adjusted streams and rivers near Oksibil
>> with ESRI"
>> Changeset Source: "Esri world imagery"
>>
>> This makes it clear that I used Esri imagery to map the streams and
>> rivers, right?
>>
>> - Joseph Eisenberg
>>
>> On 3/10/20, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:
>> > Hey
>> >
>> > some ideas about identifying such changes:
>> >
>> >
>> > Example changeset comment where a mapper did armchair mapping:
>> > Data updated, added amenity=restaurant
>> > #armchair
>> >
>> > In addition if the mapper works for a company:
>> > #
>> > e.g. #facebook
>> > #amazon
>> > #microsoft
>> > #apple
>> >
>> > Example changeset comment where a mapper did a survey and added data as
>> > (s)he saw it (from the ground):
>> > #survey
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > This way we can organize our changes and Facebook and other companies
>> and
>> > the community as well know how to validate and can distinguish
>> changesets
>> > from another. I could create a wikipage where we think about this
>> "changeset
>> > governance"
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
>> >
>> >
>> >  Original Message 
>> > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution
>> > From: Volker Schmidt
>> > To: talk@openstreetmap.org
>> > CC:
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Fixing stuff in OSM purely from imagery may not be good.
>> >>>
>> >>> A local mapper who sees something may add it before any satellite
>> imagery
>> >>> has it.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you then 'fix' this back to the satellite imagery you will have
>> >>> committed an error,
>> >>> and that error may dissuade our most important resource from ever
>> making
>> >>> any further changes- the local mapper.
>> >>>
>> >>> Be very careful!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I second this last line !
>> >>
>> >> I am observing an influx of mixed-quality remote edits from Amazon
>> >> Logistics in my area.
>> >> I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or
>> potential
>> >> changes (=suspected errors).
>> >> What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of
>> >> being able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be
>> >> armchair-mapping efforts.
>> >> I do not have a specific proposal, but I would appreciate a tool that
>> >> helps me, as local mapper,  find these edits, and, more importantly we
>> >> need a new approach to organise digesting these massive distributed
>> >> armchair-mapping interventions on OSM data.
>> >> I don't realistically think that banning these activities is good for
>> OSM.
>> >> Not dealing in a systematic way with it at all presents, however, a big
>> >> risk of deteriorating the map for two reasons:
>> >> (1) bad armchair edits by Amazon and Facebook (and others)
>> >> (2) demotivating non-armchair mappers
>> >>
>> >> I repeat I do not have a proposal how to handle that. My main concern
>> is
>> >> that the required work for locally checking even only those edits that
>> >> need checking (I am assuming that at least FB has good algorithms to
>> sort
>> >> out the dead-certain corrections beforehand. I am more sceptical with
>> >> Amazon's changing local access tagging to, essentially, "yes"
>> everywhere
>> >> they have delivered something by delivery van. I came across a good
>> number
>> >> of them, and in most cases they were at least dubious)
>> >>
>> >> Volker
>> >> (Padova, Italy)
>> >
>>
>> ___
> talk mailing list
> 

Re: [Talk-it] Digest di Talk-it, Volume 160, Numero 21

[Fra Mauro]

È molto bella, complimenti.

Se fosse semplice "localizzarla" per tutti i comuni italiani, forse potrebbe 
essere proposta a qualcuno (ANCI, Regioni, Protezione Civile, ... ).

In questo momento la probabilità di successo è molto bassa, ma se qualcuno è 
interessato potrebbe diffondersi rapidamente.

Il 10 Marzo 2020 15:42:31 CET, cxc  ha scritto:
>Buongiorno,
>
>in previsione della possibile (e per mio pensiero unica alternativa) 
>chiusura totale di tutti i servizi non necessari, per il comune dove 
>lavoro che ho curato abbastanza in OSM.. ho impostato questa 
>mappa..inviata ai colleghi che sono al lavoro...
>
>ma sono certo che non sara' mai utilizzata
>
>
>https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/it/map/negozi-di-alimentari-e-farmacie_429732#13/44.0661/10.1072
>
>
>saluti... e salute a tutti!
>
>Carlo A. Nicolini
>
>Il 10/03/20 15:14, talk-it-requ...@openstreetmap.org ha scritto:
>> Invia le richieste di iscrizione alla lista Talk-it all'indirizzo
>>  talk-it@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> Per iscriverti o cancellarti attraverso il web, visita
>>  https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>> oppure, via email, manda un messaggio con oggetto `help'
>all'indirizzo
>>  talk-it-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> Puoi contattare la persona che gestisce la lista all'indirizzo
>>  talk-it-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> Se rispondi a questo messaggio, per favore edita la linea
>dell'oggetto
>> in modo che sia più utile di un semplice "Re: Contenuti del digest
>> della lista Talk-it..."
>>
>>
>> Argomenti del Giorno:
>>
>> 1. Servizio di consegna a domicilio (Francesco Ansanelli)
>> 2. Re: nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al
>>10/3/2020) (Damjan Gerl)
>> 3. Re: nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al
>>10/3/2020) (Lorenzo Rolla)
>> 4. Re: Servizio di consegna a domicilio (Cascafico Giovanni)
>> 5. Re: Servizio di consegna a domicilio (Francesco Ansanelli)
>> 6. Re: Servizio di consegna a domicilio (Alessandro Sarretta)
>>
>>
>>
>--
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:39:25 +0100
>> From: Francesco Ansanelli 
>> To: openstreetmap list - italiano 
>> Subject: [Talk-it] Servizio di consegna a domicilio
>> Message-ID:
>>  
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Buongiorno lista,
>>
>> vista la situazione di crisi sto cercando come dare maggiore
>visibilità
>> alle attività che offrono il servizio in oggetto. E chiedo consiglio
>a
>> tutti
>>
>> Ovviamente, "delivery" è il tag che oggi può essere di aiuto a tutti
>coloro
>> che non si possono spostare.
>>
>> Nel mio comune stiamo cercando di censire i luoghi che fanno (o che
>si
>> stanno organizzando) per le consegne.
>>
>> Facciamo qualcosa a livello nazionale? Oppure ognuno si fa il suo
>umap? ;)
>>
>> Grazie a chi mi risponderà
>> Francesco
>> -- parte successiva --
>> Un allegato HTML è stato rimosso...
>> URL:
><http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/attachments/20200310/1755d71c/attachment-0001.htm>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:39:54 +0100
>> From: "Damjan Gerl" 
>> To: talk-it@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: Re: [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato
>>  al  10/3/2020)
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Direi che sarebbe utile un form pdf. A noi sul lavoro hanno dato un
>modulo leggermente differente, questo:
>> https://www.damjan.net/tmp/modulo(2).pdf
>>
>> Damjan
>>
>>
>> -- Original Header ---
>>
>>  From  : "Lorenzo Rolla" rolla.l...@gmail.com
>> To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano"
>talk-it@openstreetmap.org
>> Cc  :
>> Date  : Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:10:36 +0100
>> Subject : [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al
>10/3/2020)
>>
>>> Gentilissimi, allego il link che rimanda al modulo ufficiale del
>ministero
>>> per gli spostamenti (aggiornato all'intero territorio nazionale).
>>>
>>> Chiedo, se opportuno e fattibile, l'opportunità di creare un pdf
>editabile
>>> a disposizione della cittadinanza, visto la lunga "quarantena"
>imposta
>>> dalle autorità.

[OSM-talk-fr] Détection de bâti manquant à partir de la Carte des déploiements fibre ?

[Yves P.]

Bonsoir,

En consultant la carte des déploiements fibre 

 on voit qu’il manque des maisons dans ce lotissement.

Est-ce possible de détecter le bâti manquant à partir des points FTTH ?
Ces derniers semblent très précis (du moins sur cette zone).

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Re: [Talk-it] Altra violazione di licenza

[Marcello]

Il 10/03/20 19:15, Volker Schmidt ha scritto:

Mi sembra tutto apposto:
Sulla mappa c'è il solito "i" da cliccare per avere le informazioni 
sulla mappa e poi c'è il copyright separato sul contenuto del sito, 
che non utilizza OSM.


On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 19:10, Marcello > wrote:


Trovato un altro sito che utilizza OSM senza nessuna citazione:
http://www.parks.it/mappe/ap.php

Sotto c'è il bel copyright di Parks.it e cliccandoci si apre una
pagina
nella quale dichiarano che tutti i contenuti sono di 250 autori:
Federparchi, ministero dell'ambiente, i singoli gestori delle aree
protette ma nessun cenno a OSM. Dato che è un sito di rilevanza
nazionale forse è il caso che scriva Wikimedia Italia?

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Marcello


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Ops, scusate, mi era sfuggita la "i" sulla sinistra.

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Re: [Talk-it] Altra violazione di licenza

[mbranco2]

Ciao Marcello,
se clicchi la "i" in basso a sinistra esce "openstreetmap contributors".

Comunque io, quando vedo una mancanza di attribuzione, gli scrivo due righe
(gentili) e di solito risolvono velocemente.
Si tratta quasi sempre di ignoranza, non di malafede...


Mail
priva di virus. www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Il giorno mar 10 mar 2020 alle ore 19:10 Marcello  ha
scritto:

> Trovato un altro sito che utilizza OSM senza nessuna citazione:
> http://www.parks.it/mappe/ap.php
>
> Sotto c'è il bel copyright di Parks.it e cliccandoci si apre una pagina
> nella quale dichiarano che tutti i contenuti sono di 250 autori:
> Federparchi, ministero dell'ambiente, i singoli gestori delle aree
> protette ma nessun cenno a OSM. Dato che è un sito di rilevanza
> nazionale forse è il caso che scriva Wikimedia Italia?
>
> --
> Ciao
> Marcello
>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Altra violazione di licenza

[Volker Schmidt]

Mi sembra tutto apposto:
Sulla mappa c'è il solito "i" da cliccare per avere le informazioni sulla
mappa e poi c'è il copyright separato sul contenuto del sito, che non
utilizza OSM.

On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 19:10, Marcello  wrote:

> Trovato un altro sito che utilizza OSM senza nessuna citazione:
> http://www.parks.it/mappe/ap.php
>
> Sotto c'è il bel copyright di Parks.it e cliccandoci si apre una pagina
> nella quale dichiarano che tutti i contenuti sono di 250 autori:
> Federparchi, ministero dell'ambiente, i singoli gestori delle aree
> protette ma nessun cenno a OSM. Dato che è un sito di rilevanza
> nazionale forse è il caso che scriva Wikimedia Italia?
>
> --
> Ciao
> Marcello
>
>
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[Talk-it] Altra violazione di licenza

[Marcello]

Trovato un altro sito che utilizza OSM senza nessuna citazione: 
http://www.parks.it/mappe/ap.php


Sotto c'è il bel copyright di Parks.it e cliccandoci si apre una pagina 
nella quale dichiarano che tutti i contenuti sono di 250 autori: 
Federparchi, ministero dell'ambiente, i singoli gestori delle aree 
protette ma nessun cenno a OSM. Dato che è un sito di rilevanza 
nazionale forse è il caso che scriva Wikimedia Italia?


--
Ciao
Marcello


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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Volker Schmidt]

My personal approach: when I map I routinely use three sources in parallel:
survey,  GPX track, Mapillary images, satellite photos (picking the one
with the most up-to -date pictures in the area, and aligning them to the
Italian PCN2006 pictures, which are by our experience the best-aligned
pictures available here).
As a consequence (I am not always consistent, to be honest) I would have
something like "source=survey; GPX tracks; Mapillary; Esri Images aligned
with PCN2006"
But my mapping is often not anything near to armchair mapping, I am using
the images in addition to the other tools.
I would not consider the fact that sattellite images are used, on its own
as an indication that the date need to taken with caution.


On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 15:54, Sören Reinecke 
wrote:

> Yes, I thought also about this and planned it to integrate in my concept.
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution
> From: Joseph Eisenberg
> To: Sören Reinecke
> CC: Volker Schmidt ,talk@openstreetmap.org
>
>
> My understanding is that the common way to describe armchair mapping,
> based on aerial imagery, is to identify the imagery source. So I often
> write:
>
> Changeset Comment: "Added and adjusted streams and rivers near Oksibil
> with ESRI"
> Changeset Source: "Esri world imagery"
>
> This makes it clear that I used Esri imagery to map the streams and
> rivers, right?
>
> - Joseph Eisenberg
>
> On 3/10/20, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:
> > Hey
> >
> > some ideas about identifying such changes:
> >
> >
> > Example changeset comment where a mapper did armchair mapping:
> > Data updated, added amenity=restaurant
> > #armchair
> >
> > In addition if the mapper works for a company:
> > #
> > e.g. #facebook
> > #amazon
> > #microsoft
> > #apple
> >
> > Example changeset comment where a mapper did a survey and added data as
> > (s)he saw it (from the ground):
> > #survey
> >
> >
> >
> > This way we can organize our changes and Facebook and other companies and
> > the community as well know how to validate and can distinguish changesets
> > from another. I could create a wikipage where we think about this
> "changeset
> > governance"
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution
> > From: Volker Schmidt
> > To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> > CC:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> Fixing stuff in OSM purely from imagery may not be good.
> >>>
> >>> A local mapper who sees something may add it before any satellite
> imagery
> >>> has it.
> >>>
> >>> If you then 'fix' this back to the satellite imagery you will have
> >>> committed an error,
> >>> and that error may dissuade our most important resource from ever
> making
> >>> any further changes- the local mapper.
> >>>
> >>> Be very careful!
> >>
> >>
> >> I second this last line !
> >>
> >> I am observing an influx of mixed-quality remote edits from Amazon
> >> Logistics in my area.
> >> I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or
> potential
> >> changes (=suspected errors).
> >> What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of
> >> being able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be
> >> armchair-mapping efforts.
> >> I do not have a specific proposal, but I would appreciate a tool that
> >> helps me, as local mapper,  find these edits, and, more importantly we
> >> need a new approach to organise digesting these massive distributed
> >> armchair-mapping interventions on OSM data.
> >> I don't realistically think that banning these activities is good for
> OSM.
> >> Not dealing in a systematic way with it at all presents, however, a big
> >> risk of deteriorating the map for two reasons:
> >> (1) bad armchair edits by Amazon and Facebook (and others)
> >> (2) demotivating non-armchair mappers
> >>
> >> I repeat I do not have a proposal how to handle that. My main concern is
> >> that the required work for locally checking even only those edits that
> >> need checking (I am assuming that at least FB has good algorithms to
> sort
> >> out the dead-certain corrections beforehand. I am more sceptical with
> >> Amazon's changing local access tagging to, essentially, "yes" everywhere
> >> they have delivered something by delivery van. I came across a good
> number
> >> of them, and in most cases they were at least dubious)
> >>
> >> Volker
> >> (Padova, Italy)
> >
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ar] Retos de MapRoulette en Argentina

[Andrew Wiseman via Talk-ar]

Hola,

Las retos de ángulos agudos, cruces y carreteras superpuestas ya han terminado, 
¡muchas gracias a quienes participaron! Si alguien quería seguir mapeando, 
todavía quedan algunos otros como la conectividad (caminos que están cerca de 
otros pero no conectados), caminos flotantes y problemas de restricción de 
giro. Gracias.

https://maproulette.org/browse/projects/39170 


Andrew 


Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | iPhone: +1.202.270.4464 | andrew_wise...@apple.com 


> On Feb 26, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Andrew Wiseman via Talk-ar 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hola a todos,
> 
> Este es Andrew de Apple. Acabamos de actualizar los desafíos de la red de 
> carreteras MapRoulette en Argentina con nuevos datos de OSM.
> 
> Puede encontrar los retos en este proyecto de MapRoulette: 
> https://maproulette.org/browse/projects/39170 
> , e incluyen cosas como 
> ángulos de carretera demasiado afilados, carreteras que se cruzan pero no 
> están conectadas, carreteras que no están conectadas a nada, carreteras 
> superpuestas, restricciones de giro, carreteras cercanas pero no conectadas a 
> otras, y otros problemas similares. Planeo trabajar en algunos de ellos 
> también.
> 
> Si no lo ha usado antes, MapRoulette le permite analizar problemas 
> potenciales en los datos de OSM uno por uno y corregirlos o indicar que no 
> son un problema. Los desafíos se crearon con nuestra herramienta de análisis 
> de datos Atlas: https://github.com/osmlab/atlas 
> .
> 
> Si no está seguro de qué desafío intentar, los ángulos agudos o el cruce de 
> carreteras son probablemente los más fáciles, pero todos deberían ser 
> bastante sencillos.
> Avíseme si tiene alguna sugerencia o comentario. ¡Gracias!
> 
> Andrew 
> 
> 
> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | iPhone: +1.202.270.4464 | andrew_wise...@apple.com 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2019, at 2:11 PM, Andrew Wiseman > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hola,
>> 
>> Recientemente actualizamos los desafíos de MapRoulette con datos nuevos y 
>> agregamos algunos más desafíos. Aquí hay nuevos enlaces a ellos. Por favor 
>> hazme saber si tienes alguna pregunta.
>> 
>> Argentina caminos y vías cruzados: https://maproulette.org/challenge/9460 
>> 
>> Argentina caminos y vías flotantes y desconectadas: 
>> https://maproulette.org/challenge/9461 
>> 
>> Argentina restricciones de giro no válidas: 
>> https://maproulette.org/challenge/9466 
>> 
>> Argentina rotondas malformadas: https://maproulette.org/challenge/9464 
>> 
>> Argentina comprobación de conectividad vial: 
>> https://maproulette.org/challenge/9459 
>> 
>> Argentina líneas superpuestas: https://maproulette.org/challenge/9457 
>> 
>> Argentina enrutamiento imposible: https://maproulette.org/challenge/9458 
>> 
>> Saludos,
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>> 
>> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | iPhone: +1.202.270.4464 | andrew_wise...@apple.com 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2019, at 11:47 AM, Andrew Wiseman via Talk-ar 
>>> mailto:talk-ar@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hola,
>>> 
>>> He publicado otro reto de MapRoulette, para las líneas de costa en 
>>> Argentina. Esta reto busca partes de la costa que están muy largas o con 
>>> esquinas agudos, que pueden deberse a digitalización inexacta o a muy pocos 
>>> vértices o esquinas como sea necesario. Hay más detalles y instrucciones en 
>>> el reto: https://maproulette.org/challenge/8252 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Por favor, hágamelo saber si tiene alguna pregunta o comentario. 
>>> 
>>> Saludos,
>>> 
>>> Andrew
>>> 
>>> Andrew Wiseman |  Maps | iPhone: +1.202.270.4464 | 
>>> andrew_wise...@apple.com 
>>> 
 On Dec 12, 2018, at 6:46 PM, Andrew Wiseman >>> > wrote:
 
 Hola OSM Argentina,
 
 Esto es Andrew del equipo de mapas de Apple. Llevamos algún tiempo 
 trabajando en el red vial (https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/34 
 ) y recientemente usado 
 nuestro herramienta Atlas para análisis de datos 
 (https://github.com/osmlab/atlas ) para 
 buscar algunos tipos de posibles problemas, como carreteras con ángulos 
 agudos, intersecciones de edificios y carreteras, y lugares donde la 
 clasificación de “highway_link” no coincide con la clasificación más alta 
 de las carreteras. Pongo los resultados de los retos en MapRoulette, un 
 herramienta que te permite pasar los problemas uno por uno y 

Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

Project #173. I've set you as an experienced mapper and you should be able
to see it.

http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/173

On Tue., Mar. 10, 2020, 1:05 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Sounds good to me. Can we try it as if I don't have the data? I might then
> be able to clearly document the procedure in the wiki.
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> *From:* James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2020 10:38
> *To:* Daniel @jfd553
> *Cc:* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada
>
>
>
> The task is setup in task manager, it was just more convenient serving
> data via the service. I can publish the task and invite those that have
> enough experience (they would need the orthoganalized data though) Which I
> could provide over slack(osm-ca.slack.com)
>
>
>
> On Tue., Mar. 10, 2020, 10:33 a.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
> wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
> That is too bad, but there is no rush at this stage because we are simply
> refining the import procedure. In the meantime, I propose to act as “Task
> manager”. I can provide some tiles (task frame and orthogonalized
> buildings’ footprint) to those who wish to try the import procedure.
>
> I should start importing today with a first tile. If changes/additional
> information are needed to adjust the procedure, I suggest we discuss it on
> the import Talk page [1]
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Canada_-_The_Open_Database_of_Buildings
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2020 20:13
> *To:* Daniel @jfd553
> *Cc:* talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada
>
>
>
> Ok so I have some bad news, the data.osmcanada.ca server that was being
> hosted by a friend on AWS was shutdown and wiped. I will need to get time
> to get things setup on another server to host the microinstance:
> https://github.com/osmottawa/micro-data-service
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Services BANO v2 indisponibles

[Samy Mezani]

Bonjour,


J'ai remarqué qu'il était impossible de mettre à jour la correspondance 
entre FANTOIR et OSM sur https://cadastre.openstreetmap.fr/fantoir.


Impossible de mettre à jour avec les données OSM.


Cordialement,


Samy



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Re: [OSM-talk] Changeset Governance [was: Announcing Daylight Map Distribution]

[Sören Reinecke via talk]

Hey,

created a wikipage for it. See 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Changeset/Governance .

Spirit of Changeset Governance: Basically it introduces a way to
distinguish a changeset made during a survey from a changeset made
during armchair mapping using information received from imagery or
external data. In the spirit of more professional Quality Assurance a
way for us and the performers to better control validation processes
and to take actions more precisely.


Feel free to improve and comment

Cheers

Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram

-Original Message-
From: Mario Frasca 
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 08:35:15 -0500


  

  
  
that would be VERY nice, if you managed to achieve this.



On 10/03/2020 06:46, Sören Reinecke via
  talk wrote:




> In
>   addition if the mapper works for a company:
> 
>   #
> 
> e.g. #facebook
> 
> #amazon
> 
> #microsoft
> 
> #apple

I've been asking about the '#apple' hashtag, for quite a while,
  straight from Andrew Wiseman, but I don't seem to be able to make
  myself understood, or heard.

they have their team, you can find their edits matching changeset
  timestamp with historic team composition, if you really insist.



  

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[OSM-talk-fr] recycling ou waste_disposal

[Stéphane Péneau]

Salut,

dans ma communauté d'agglo, après avoir pris quelques renseignements, 
j'ai appris que les déchets "tout venant", sont :


- envoyés dans un incinérateur qui produit de l'énergie

ou

- triés grossièrement (plastique, métaux ferreux) puis enfouis pour ce 
qui reste.


La question est donc comment tagger les conteneurs pour ces déchets :

amenity=recycling + recycling:waste=yes

ou bien

amenity=waste_disposal


J'avais choisi waste_disposal, mais maintenant j'ai un doute.


A+

Stf


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] {Disarmed} Re: #AttributionIsNotAnOption

[Arnaud Champollion]

http://www.inforoute04.fr et https://www.inforoutefrance.fr/ ont été 
contactés en janvier, a priori ils s'en occupaient, mais la situation 
n'a pas évolué.


Je peux relancer inforoute04 localement au titre du groupe OsmDigne de 
Linux Alpes. Ont-ils été prévenus spécifiquement ou bien c'est seulement 
Inforoute France (en fait tous ne sont pas logés à la même enseigne, par 
exemple Inforoute05 est OK).








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[Talk-ca] Grand-Montréal Utilisation de sidewalk pour cartographier pistes multi-usage

[Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais]

Voici une photo aérienne haute résolution de l’endroit pour mieux évaluer le 
contexte. C’est vraiment un cas particulier, car il y a aussi un trottoir à 
droite. J’ai ajouté une note sur ce way.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Y0CsomNZLCEEVlX-CDHsv4yplKWxkLOJ 
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[Daniel @jfd553]

Sounds good to me. Can we try it as if I don't have the data? I might then be 
able to clearly document the procedure in the wiki.

Daniel

From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 10:38
To: Daniel @jfd553
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

The task is setup in task manager, it was just more convenient serving data via 
the service. I can publish the task and invite those that have enough 
experience (they would need the orthoganalized data though) Which I could 
provide over slack(osm-ca.slack.com)

On Tue., Mar. 10, 2020, 10:33 a.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
mailto:jfd...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Hi James,
That is too bad, but there is no rush at this stage because we are simply 
refining the import procedure. In the meantime, I propose to act as “Task 
manager”. I can provide some tiles (task frame and orthogonalized buildings’ 
footprint) to those who wish to try the import procedure.
I should start importing today with a first tile. If changes/additional 
information are needed to adjust the procedure, I suggest we discuss it on the 
import Talk page [1]

Daniel

[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Canada_-_The_Open_Database_of_Buildings


From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2020 20:13
To: Daniel @jfd553
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

Ok so I have some bad news, the data.osmcanada.ca 
server that was being hosted by a friend on AWS was shutdown and wiped. I will 
need to get time to get things setup on another server to host the 
microinstance: https://github.com/osmottawa/micro-data-service
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mise à jour BANO

[osm . sanspourriel]

Il y a espoir que ce soit finalisé avant le 10 mai 2020
 ?

Je dis ça, je dis rien^^ mais je crois qu'on serait nombreux à être
heureux de voir ça dans la catégorie "cartographie" ou "communauté".

Jean-Yvon

Le 03/03/2020 à 15:06, Vincent de Château-Thierry - osm.v...@free.fr a
écrit :

Salut Pierre-Yves,


De: "Pierre-Yves Mevel via Talk-fr" 

Désolé de remettre le sujet sur la table mais, après avoir parcouru
les différents échanges sur le sujet, il me semble qu'un point n'a
pas été abordé concernant la BANO. Depuis de nombreuses années, je
contribue à la création de points adresse sur OSM et je m'en sers
pour alimenter la base adresse de ma communauté d'agglo grâce aux
extractions quotidiennes que l'on peut trouver sur
http://bano.openstreetmap.fr/data/ . A priori, ces fichiers sont mis
à jour quotidiennement. Si je lis correctement le très complet
message que Vincent (dct) a écrit sur cette liste le 11 novembre
dernier, le passage en v2 ne devait pas changer cela.

Oui dans mon message je disais que les exports ne changeaient pas. J'aurais du dire : 
"pas pour l'instant". L'objectif est bien que tout bascule sur une seule 
instance de BANO (celle qu'on appelle V2). Les exports depuis cette nouvelle instance 
sont un gros chantier, sur lequel je suis pile actuellement (cf le dernier commit en date 
[1]). Lorsque ce ticket sera terminé, alors on basculera l'alimentation de 
http://bano.openstreetmap.fr/data/ sur la V2, mise à jour quotidiennement.


Cependant, je constate que les fichiers concernant l'Ille-et-Vilaine
(et sans doute les autres départements) n'évoluent guère depuis le
début de l'année. Ainsi, si des changements faits le 18 décembre
sont bien intégrés dans le SHP (par exemple,
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7066812399 ), d'autres, faits le
6 février, n'y apparaissent pas (cf.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7191078724 ) et ils ne figurent
pas non plus en vert sur
http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/leaflet/bano.html .

J'avoue ne pas trop surveiller au jour le jour la V1, mais ton message laisse 
penser que la base OSM qui l'alimente a du retard (litote). Et comme c'est 
jusque là cette V1 qui alimente aussi le rendu carto BANO, on y constate le 
même retard. C'est sur la pile de trucs à faire de Christian que de brancher le 
rendu carto sur la V2.


Ai-je loupé un épisode concernant le lieu où trouver ces données ?
Dans ce cas, ne serait-il pas souhaitable de l'indiquer sur la page
dédiée de data.gouv.fr (
https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/datasets/base-d-adresses-nationale-ouverte-bano/
) ?
Ou bien y a-t-il un problème de moissonnage qui empêche l'extraction
quotidienne de se dérouler correctement ?

Non tu n'as pas loupé de message, la comm' sur BANO est loin d'être au top  j'avoue /o\. En tout 
cas ce sujet des exports est le dernier "gros" sujet qui empêche la bascule de tout le 
système BANO sur une version unique, c'est bien ce qui me motive pour que ça ne s'éternise pas 
trop. Donc j'y travaille et je compte bien annoncer cette vrai v2 complète rapidement. Je n'ose pas 
dire "fin de ce mois" car c'est le meilleur moyen de ne pas tenir le délai. Donc non je 
l'ai pas dit :)

vincent

[1] 
:https://github.com/osm-fr/bano/commit/ba496b90a1ba37a919d9576694fd89a1c0cf0428

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Michal Migurski]

Thanks for your feedback, Christoph.

The “100%” is accurate because there’s no data released in Daylight that hasn't 
previously passed through the OSM.org  database. When we 
observe errors and fix them manually, we make our edits to OpenStreetMap like 
any other editor.

I’m not sure I fully understand your second question, hopefully you can 
elaborate!

-mike.


michal migurski- contact info and pgp key:
sf/cahttp://mike.teczno.com/contact.html

> On Mar 10, 2020, at 3:44 AM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday 10 March 2020, Michal Migurski wrote:
>> 
>>  • A PBF planet file composed of 100% OSM data, released under the
>> terms of the Open Database License. • Only those edits which have
>> been validated to contain no malicious vandalism or unintentional
>> errors so we can show them in our display maps
> 
> Could someone maybe do an analysis of the diff regarding numbers of 
> features removed/changed/added for various types of objects?
> 
> Regarding
> 
>>  • A PBF planet file composed of 100% OSM data
> 
> that is probably an incorrect characterization because any time you 
> modify OSM data without uploading the results to OSM what you get is no 
> more 100% OSM data.
> 
> Thinking this further - the real question is if there is other data used 
> in production of the maps using this that constitutes a derivative 
> database according to the ODbL or in other words:  Does Facebook claim 
> that this is the only derivative database they are using?
> 
> -- 
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Sören Reinecke via talk]

Yes, I thought also about this and planned it to integrate in my concept. Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map DistributionFrom: Joseph Eisenberg To: Sören Reinecke CC: Volker Schmidt ,talk@openstreetmap.orgMy understanding is that the common way to describe armchair mapping,based on aerial imagery, is to identify the imagery source. So I oftenwrite:Changeset Comment: "Added and adjusted streams and rivers near Oksibilwith ESRI"Changeset Source: "Esri world imagery"This makes it clear that I used Esri imagery to map the streams andrivers, right?- Joseph EisenbergOn 3/10/20, Sören Reinecke via talk  wrote:> Hey>> some ideas about identifying such changes:>>> Example changeset comment where a mapper did armchair mapping:> Data updated, added amenity=restaurant> #armchair>> In addition if the mapper works for a company:> #> e.g. #facebook> #amazon> #microsoft> #apple>> Example changeset comment where a mapper did a survey and added data as> (s)he saw it (from the ground):> #survey This way we can organize our changes and Facebook and other companies and> the community as well know how to validate and can distinguish changesets> from another. I could create a wikipage where we think about this "changeset> governance">> Cheers>> Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram>>>  Original Message > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution> From: Volker Schmidt> To: talk@openstreetmap.org> CC:> Fixing stuff in OSM purely from imagery may not be good.>> A local mapper who sees something may add it before any satellite imagery>>> has it.>> If you then 'fix' this back to the satellite imagery you will have>>> committed an error,>>> and that error may dissuade our most important resource from ever making>>> any further changes- the local mapper.>> Be very careful!>> I second this last line ! I am observing an influx of mixed-quality remote edits from Amazon>> Logistics in my area.>> I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or potential>> changes (=suspected errors).>> What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of>> being able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be>> armchair-mapping efforts.>> I do not have a specific proposal, but I would appreciate a tool that>> helps me, as local mapper,  find these edits, and, more importantly we>> need a new approach to organise digesting these massive distributed>> armchair-mapping interventions on OSM data.>> I don't realistically think that banning these activities is good for OSM.>> Not dealing in a systematic way with it at all presents, however, a big>> risk of deteriorating the map for two reasons:>> (1) bad armchair edits by Amazon and Facebook (and others)>> (2) demotivating non-armchair mappers I repeat I do not have a proposal how to handle that. My main concern is>> that the required work for locally checking even only those edits that>> need checking (I am assuming that at least FB has good algorithms to sort>> out the dead-certain corrections beforehand. I am more sceptical with>> Amazon's changing local access tagging to, essentially, "yes" everywhere>> they have delivered something by delivery van. I came across a good number>> of them, and in most cases they were at least dubious) Volker>> (Padova, Italy)>___
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Re: [Talk-it] Digest di Talk-it, Volume 160, Numero 21

[cxc]

Buongiorno,

in previsione della possibile (e per mio pensiero unica alternativa) 
chiusura totale di tutti i servizi non necessari, per il comune dove 
lavoro che ho curato abbastanza in OSM.. ho impostato questa 
mappa..inviata ai colleghi che sono al lavoro...


ma sono certo che non sara' mai utilizzata


https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/it/map/negozi-di-alimentari-e-farmacie_429732#13/44.0661/10.1072


saluti... e salute a tutti!

Carlo A. Nicolini

Il 10/03/20 15:14, talk-it-requ...@openstreetmap.org ha scritto:

Invia le richieste di iscrizione alla lista Talk-it all'indirizzo
talk-it@openstreetmap.org

Per iscriverti o cancellarti attraverso il web, visita
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
oppure, via email, manda un messaggio con oggetto `help' all'indirizzo
talk-it-requ...@openstreetmap.org

Puoi contattare la persona che gestisce la lista all'indirizzo
talk-it-ow...@openstreetmap.org

Se rispondi a questo messaggio, per favore edita la linea dell'oggetto
in modo che sia più utile di un semplice "Re: Contenuti del digest
della lista Talk-it..."


Argomenti del Giorno:

1. Servizio di consegna a domicilio (Francesco Ansanelli)
2. Re: nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al
   10/3/2020) (Damjan Gerl)
3. Re: nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al
   10/3/2020) (Lorenzo Rolla)
4. Re: Servizio di consegna a domicilio (Cascafico Giovanni)
5. Re: Servizio di consegna a domicilio (Francesco Ansanelli)
6. Re: Servizio di consegna a domicilio (Alessandro Sarretta)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:39:25 +0100
From: Francesco Ansanelli 
To: openstreetmap list - italiano 
Subject: [Talk-it] Servizio di consegna a domicilio
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Buongiorno lista,

vista la situazione di crisi sto cercando come dare maggiore visibilità
alle attività che offrono il servizio in oggetto. E chiedo consiglio a
tutti

Ovviamente, "delivery" è il tag che oggi può essere di aiuto a tutti coloro
che non si possono spostare.

Nel mio comune stiamo cercando di censire i luoghi che fanno (o che si
stanno organizzando) per le consegne.

Facciamo qualcosa a livello nazionale? Oppure ognuno si fa il suo umap? ;)

Grazie a chi mi risponderà
Francesco
-- parte successiva --
Un allegato HTML è stato rimosso...
URL: 
<http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/attachments/20200310/1755d71c/attachment-0001.htm>

--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:39:54 +0100
From: "Damjan Gerl" 
To: talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato
al  10/3/2020)
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Direi che sarebbe utile un form pdf. A noi sul lavoro hanno dato un modulo 
leggermente differente, questo:
https://www.damjan.net/tmp/modulo(2).pdf

Damjan


-- Original Header ---

 From  : "Lorenzo Rolla" rolla.l...@gmail.com
To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Cc  :
Date  : Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:10:36 +0100
Subject : [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al 10/3/2020)


Gentilissimi, allego il link che rimanda al modulo ufficiale del ministero
per gli spostamenti (aggiornato all'intero territorio nazionale).

Chiedo, se opportuno e fattibile, l'opportunità di creare un pdf editabile
a disposizione della cittadinanza, visto la lunga "quarantena" imposta
dalle autorità... magari da mettere sul sito di openstreetmaps. Un cordiale
saluto. Lorenzo.


https://www.interno.gov.it/sites/default/files/allegati/modulo_autodichiarazione_10.3.2020.pdf

--
Lorenzo Rolla




--

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:54:18 +0100
From: Lorenzo Rolla 
To: openstreetmap list - italiano 
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato
al 10/3/2020)
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

È un modello superato... ora la zona “rossa” è su tutto il territorio
nazionale...

Il giorno mar 10 mar 2020 alle 13:41 Damjan Gerl  ha
scritto:


Direi che sarebbe utile un form pdf. A noi sul lavoro hanno dato un modulo
leggermente differente, questo:
https://www.damjan.net/tmp/modulo(2).pdf

Damjan


-- Original Header ---

 From  : "Lorenzo Rolla" rolla.l...@gmail.com
To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Cc  :
Date  : Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:10:36 +0100
Subject : [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al
10/3/2020)


Gentilissimi, allego il link che rimanda al modulo ufficiale del

ministero

per gli spostamenti (aggiornato all'intero territorio nazionale).

Chie

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] {Disarmed} Re: #AttributionIsNotAnOption

[Christian Quest]

Le 10/03/2020 à 15:15, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :

Le 10/03/2020 à 14:07, Christian Quest a écrit :


Un simple "(C) OpenStreetMap" avec un lien vers osm.org/copyright suffit

C'est vers ça que la nouvelle guideline d'attribution se dirige...



OK, c'est envoyé.

Ils ont précisé :

"Il nous faudra ensuite un temps avec notre prestataire pour effectuer 
cette modification sur l’annuaire de l’éducation nationale."




Rien d'étonnant venant d'une administration qui n'a plus (ou jamais eu) 
de compétence interne pour directement gérer ce genre de choses :(


Par contre, j'ai eu un retour du même genre d'une entreprise pas bien 
grosse, ce qui m'a bien plus étonné !



--
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] {Disarmed} Re: #AttributionIsNotAnOption

[Vincent Bergeot]

Le 10/03/2020 à 15:15, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :

Ils ont précisé :

"Il nous faudra ensuite un temps avec notre prestataire pour effectuer 
cette modification sur l’annuaire de l’éducation nationale."


Peut-être rappeler que c'est au programme de seconde depuis septembre 
2019, une compétence obligatoire définie par l'Éducation Nationale 
"Contribuer de manière collaborative à OpenStreetMap" -> ok je sors !


Merci Arnaud d'avoir noté cela, je suis pourtant passé plus d'une fois 
sur cet annuaire.


à plus

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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

The task is setup in task manager, it was just more convenient serving data
via the service. I can publish the task and invite those that have enough
experience (they would need the orthoganalized data though) Which I could
provide over slack(osm-ca.slack.com)

On Tue., Mar. 10, 2020, 10:33 a.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Hi James,
>
> That is too bad, but there is no rush at this stage because we are simply
> refining the import procedure. In the meantime, I propose to act as “Task
> manager”. I can provide some tiles (task frame and orthogonalized
> buildings’ footprint) to those who wish to try the import procedure.
>
> I should start importing today with a first tile. If changes/additional
> information are needed to adjust the procedure, I suggest we discuss it on
> the import Talk page [1]
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Canada_-_The_Open_Database_of_Buildings
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2020 20:13
> *To:* Daniel @jfd553
> *Cc:* talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada
>
>
>
> Ok so I have some bad news, the data.osmcanada.ca server that was being
> hosted by a friend on AWS was shutdown and wiped. I will need to get time
> to get things setup on another server to host the microinstance:
> https://github.com/osmottawa/micro-data-service
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Servizio di consegna a domicilio

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Interessante! Peccato che ci vorrebbe OsmAnd Live...

Il mar 10 mar 2020, 15:15 Alessandro Sarretta 
ha scritto:

> Su OsmAnd è possibile impostare dei filtri per visualizzare POI con il tag
> delivery in modo abbastanza semplice (tramite i custom filters:
> https://osmand.net/features/find-something-on-map#Find_Points_of_Interest_A
> )
>
> Ale
> On 10/03/20 14:36, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:
>
> Ciao cascafico,
>
> forse non mi sono spiegato bene... Un nuovo utilizzatore OSM come fa a
> trovare velocemente le attività?
> Con umap + overpass ad esempio è possibile far vedere i dati ricavati
> dalla query: nwr[delivery][delivery!=no]
> Però penso che la nostra comunità possa fare anche qualcosa in più se ci
> attiviamo
>
> Francesco
>
> Il giorno mar 10 mar 2020 alle ore 14:24 Cascafico Giovanni <
> cascaf...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> Perché disperdere l'informazione? Mapparlo correttamente su osm! Poi ci
>> puoi fare tutte le mappe che vuoi.
>>
>> Il mar 10 mar 2020, 13:41 Francesco Ansanelli  ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>> Buongiorno lista,
>>>
>>> vista la situazione di crisi sto cercando come dare maggiore visibilità
>>> alle attività che offrono il servizio in oggetto. E chiedo consiglio a
>>> tutti
>>>
>>> Ovviamente, "delivery" è il tag che oggi può essere di aiuto a tutti
>>> coloro che non si possono spostare.
>>>
>>> Nel mio comune stiamo cercando di censire i luoghi che fanno (o che si
>>> stanno organizzando) per le consegne.
>>>
>>> Facciamo qualcosa a livello nazionale? Oppure ognuno si fa il suo umap?
>>> ;)
>>>
>>> Grazie a chi mi risponderà
>>> Francesco
>>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[Daniel @jfd553]

Hi James,
That is too bad, but there is no rush at this stage because we are simply 
refining the import procedure. In the meantime, I propose to act as “Task 
manager”. I can provide some tiles (task frame and orthogonalized buildings’ 
footprint) to those who wish to try the import procedure.
I should start importing today with a first tile. If changes/additional 
information are needed to adjust the procedure, I suggest we discuss it on the 
import Talk page [1]

Daniel

[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Canada_-_The_Open_Database_of_Buildings


From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2020 20:13
To: Daniel @jfd553
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

Ok so I have some bad news, the data.osmcanada.ca 
server that was being hosted by a friend on AWS was shutdown and wiped. I will 
need to get time to get things setup on another server to host the 
microinstance: https://github.com/osmottawa/micro-data-service
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Re: [OSM-talk] 3D OSM with terrain

[Tobias Knerr]

Hi Nick,

On 06.03.20 18:13, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> Anyway, I was wondering if there was any active development on
> open-source 3D OSM renderers with terrain?

among the open source options, at least the Blender plugin blender-osm²
and the OSM2World renderer have terrain support.

As maintainer of the latter, I feel I should point out the current
limitations, though: While OSM2World has support for terrain based on
SRTM, that feature is still very experimental. In particular, there is
no level of detail mechanism for terrain (which makes it not scale well
to wide open terrain in the countryside) and the workflow in the desktop
software is inconvenient (need to download SRTM data manually and update
a config file with the path pointing to the dataset).

Due to these quality and performance issues, the first version of our
still-not-finished WebGL client¹ will most likely not include 3D
terrain. But the goal is to eventually get there, so if you see
potential synergies, please reach out!

Tobias

¹ https://wiki.osm.org/OSM2World/WebGL_client
²
https://wiki.osm.org/Blender#blender-osm:_OpenStreetMap_and_Terrain_for_Blender

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] {Disarmed} Re: #AttributionIsNotAnOption

[Arnaud Champollion]

Le 10/03/2020 à 14:07, Christian Quest a écrit :


Un simple "(C) OpenStreetMap" avec un lien vers osm.org/copyright suffit

C'est vers ça que la nouvelle guideline d'attribution se dirige...



OK, c'est envoyé.

Ils ont précisé :

"Il nous faudra ensuite un temps avec notre prestataire pour effectuer 
cette modification sur l’annuaire de l’éducation nationale."















Le 10/03/2020 à 12:21, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :

Le 09/03/2020 à 22:37, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :

Message envoyé ce soir depuis le formulaire de contact


Réponse ce matin :

Pouvons-nous indiquer exactement « ©Les contributeurs d’OpenStreetMap 
sous licence ODbL – A propos 
 ». sur le modèle de ce qui 
est fait par le ministère de transition écologique et solidaire la 
mention (mais en français)

https://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv.fr/services-deconcentres-du-ministere

J'ai failli répondre :


En effet, cette attribution est correcte :

© les contributeurs OpenStreetMap 
, sous licence ODbL


Mais cette mention est pour l'utilisation de la base de données.


Pour la carte elle-même, sur https://www.openstreetmap.fr/open-data/ 
je lis :


fond de carte par OpenStreetMap France 
, sous licence CC 
BY-SA 



Donc, quelle est la bonne licence ?

Merci

Arnaud


--
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Re: [Talk-it] Servizio di consegna a domicilio

[Alessandro Sarretta]

Su OsmAnd è possibile impostare dei filtri per visualizzare POI con il 
tag delivery in modo abbastanza semplice (tramite i custom filters: 
https://osmand.net/features/find-something-on-map#Find_Points_of_Interest_A)


Ale

On 10/03/20 14:36, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:

Ciao cascafico,

forse non mi sono spiegato bene... Un nuovo utilizzatore OSM come fa a 
trovare velocemente le attività?
Con umap + overpass ad esempio è possibile far vedere i dati ricavati 
dalla query: nwr[delivery][delivery!=no]
Però penso che la nostra comunità possa fare anche qualcosa in più se 
ci attiviamo


Francesco

Il giorno mar 10 mar 2020 alle ore 14:24 Cascafico Giovanni 
mailto:cascaf...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:


Perché disperdere l'informazione? Mapparlo correttamente su osm!
Poi ci puoi fare tutte le mappe che vuoi.

Il mar 10 mar 2020, 13:41 Francesco Ansanelli mailto:franci...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:

Buongiorno lista,

vista la situazione di crisi sto cercando come dare maggiore
visibilità alle attività che offrono il servizio in oggetto. E
chiedo consiglio a tutti

Ovviamente, "delivery" è il tag che oggi può essere di aiuto a
tutti coloro che non si possono spostare.

Nel mio comune stiamo cercando di censire i luoghi che fanno
(o che si stanno organizzando) per le consegne.

Facciamo qualcosa a livello nazionale? Oppure ognuno si fa il
suo umap? ;)

Grazie a chi mi risponderà
Francesco

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ajouter des objets à une relation ?

[Jean-Christophe Becquet]

Le 10/03/2020 12:56, Marc M. a écrit :
> Le 10.03.20 à 12:51, Shohreh a écrit :
>> marc marc wrote
>>> si quelqu'un veux récupérer "quelque chose" à une distance de son choix
>>> de la relation, c'est facile à faire (on récupère la relation, les ways
>>> donc les noeuds de ceux-ci et on demande "ce qu'on veux" à distance X
>>> mètres de ceux-ci.
>>
>> Ok.
>>
>> Comment fait-on ? JOSM ?
> 
> josm permet de télécharger le long d'un tracé.
> sinon la commande overpass api arround

Bonjour,

Par exemple pour rechercher les points d'eau dans un rayon de 500m
autour d'un itinéraire cyclable, j'utilise la requête suivante :

(
relation(10135436);
)->.boucle;

out body;
>;
out skel;

node[amenity=drinking_water](around.boucle:500); out;
way[amenity=drinking_water](around.boucle:500); out center;

node[drinking_water=yes](around.boucle:500); out;
way[drinking_water=yes](around.boucle:500); out center;


http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Rte

Bonne journée

JCB
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Nouveau : Synthèse Données ouvertes, OpenStreetMap et mobilité
http://www.apitux.com/medias/apitux-p2a-donnees-ouvertes-openstreetmap-et-mobilite-synthese-20-01-31.pdf

==APITUX : le choix du logiciel libre==

APITUX - Jean-Christophe Becquet
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06 25 86 07 92 - j...@apitux.com - http://www.apitux.com
SIRET : 452 887 441 00031 - APE : 6202A

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ajouter des objets à une relation ?

[Shohreh]

marc marc wrote
> josm permet de télécharger le long d'un tracé. sinon la commande overpass
> api arround

Merci.

==
[out:json][timeout:25];

//Coulée verte du sud parisien 2646085
rel(2646085);

(
   node[amenity="bicycle_repair_station"](around:10);
);

out body;
>;
out skel qt;
==



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] BIPT antennas

[Gert Van Oost]

Hey,

I’m new at OSM so I don’t know if this is an usfull contribution but the 
BIPT-antennes or updated in de WMS /WFS of the flemish governement at Mercator 
WMS /WFS at the layer ‘Zendantennes’

Wms : 
https://www.mercator.vlaanderen.be/raadpleegdienstenmercatorpubliek/ows?SERVICE=WMS

wfs : 
https://www.mercator.vlaanderen.be/raadpleegdienstenmercatorpubliek/ows?SERVICE=WFS

download –zip-shape : 
https://www.mercator.vlaanderen.be/raadpleegdienstenmercatorpubliek/us/ows?service=WFS=2.0.0=GetFeature=us_zndant_pnt=4=SHAPE-ZIP

metadata :
https://www.mercator.vlaanderen.be/zoekdienstenmercatorpubliek/apps/tabsearch/index.html?uuid=00b8c6b6-437d-4d35-9b39-7ad300f11b94=dut

best regards

Gert

Van: Lionel Giard [mailto:lionel.gi...@gmail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 10 maart 2020 11:51
Aan: Vucodil; OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] BIPT antennas

@ Vucodil :
One solution could be to map everything as telecom=antenna if they don't match 
a mast/tower (already mapped), and put a "fixme=check if a mast or tower is 
present". Note that on a rooftop, you generally don't have a mast (it is a 
small support structure that we can just consider being "telecom=antenna" and 
maybe in the future, we could use a "antenna:support=*" tag ;-) ). [1]

For mast and tower, use the obvious existing one, or map it if it is visible 
(some of them can be easily seen on imagery), and use the man_made=mast or 
tower tag like usual and change it later on if needed (if a future proposal is 
done for it). :-p

For man_made=antenna, i don't think it is better than telecom=antenna (neither 
one or the other was ever approved formally). The telecom key was created to 
refine the telecom tagging following the same idea that was used for the power 
infrastructure (with the power key). I'm completely in favor of redesigning the 
telecom infrastructure tagging like the french community started to push 
(especially focused on cable and fiber infrastructure at the moment), as they 
seem quite experienced with infrastructure tagging as they were involve in 
power tagging... :-p
So using telecom=antenna seems more logical in order to already start using a 
"proper" tag instead of a general tag like man_made=antenna (that we could 
regret later on). And it can always be changed if/when someone do a proper 
proposal and approval process later on (as that would be the only difference, 
as the subkey will probably be identical).

antenna:use seems functionally equivalent to the subtag 
communication:*=yes/no
 (like communication:mobile_phone=yes/no). I don't see an improvement as the 
communication:*=yes/no is already used for all mast/tower (including 
power=tower ! As they can have antenna on them (i don't know if that's the case 
in Belgium)), so we should maybe use it for antenna too. ^_^ One example that i 
did map like that for an antenna (on top of a watertower here) was 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5968512028 .

[1] I work at one of our telecom company and i can see their structure data 
(pylons, mast, ...) and it is very detailed but unfortunately it is closed 
data. :D But antenna on rooftop have a structure type : "self-supported roof 
structure". ;-)
We should push BIPT to open more infrastructure data. :-D *dreaming*


Le lun. 9 mars 2020 à 22:18, Vucodil via Talk-be 
mailto:talk-be@openstreetmap.org>> a écrit :
Hello everyone,

Already thanks for all the feedback! I answer some of your questions in the 
following topics:

Continuous update (@Midgard and @rodeo.be )

It was in the back of my head but I didn't want to plan it yet. I will probably 
work on that but not soon.
Note that the list of BIPT antennas is updated monthly. Is there server for 
scheduled scripts within OSM BE ?

Workflow (@Midgard)

The distance triggering manual review has been changed to 25m.

> 3) And even then, just dumping elements in OSM without manual review is not 
> considered best
> practice, but since it's only nodes, things are relatively simple and I won't 
> object. I would
> just like to see that they're not placed too close to any other existing 
> node, but that can be
> checked automatically.

Like one meter? Is there JOSM tool for that?

BIPT (@Thibault Rommel)

I agree. I updated the proposal

Latitude and longitude as tag (@s8evq and @Midgard)

That's a mistake. I only wanted to explain that I use the longitude and 
latitude provided in the dataset. It has been updated.

Open data Portal (@rodeo.be)

Good idea. I will inform BIPT of the positive feedback of the OSM BE community 
and I will kindly push them to do so.

Precision of the localisation

Looking alone at 9000 nodes for manual review is quite some work. Would it be 
acceptable to have a FIXME tag stating that the localization could be a few 
meters offset? Or is it considered to pollute the OSM db to do so?

Tagging (@Lionel, @Karel Adams, 

Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Mario Frasca]

that would be VERY nice, if you managed to achieve this.

On 10/03/2020 06:46, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:

In addition if the mapper works for a company:
#
e.g. #facebook
#amazon
#microsoft
#apple


I've been asking about the '#apple' hashtag, for quite a while, straight 
from Andrew Wiseman, but I don't seem to be able to make myself 
understood, or heard.


they have their team, you can find their edits matching changeset 
timestamp with historic team composition, if you really insist.


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Re: [Talk-it] Servizio di consegna a domicilio

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Ciao cascafico,

forse non mi sono spiegato bene... Un nuovo utilizzatore OSM come fa a
trovare velocemente le attività?
Con umap + overpass ad esempio è possibile far vedere i dati ricavati dalla
query: nwr[delivery][delivery!=no]
Però penso che la nostra comunità possa fare anche qualcosa in più se ci
attiviamo

Francesco

Il giorno mar 10 mar 2020 alle ore 14:24 Cascafico Giovanni <
cascaf...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Perché disperdere l'informazione? Mapparlo correttamente su osm! Poi ci
> puoi fare tutte le mappe che vuoi.
>
> Il mar 10 mar 2020, 13:41 Francesco Ansanelli  ha
> scritto:
>
>> Buongiorno lista,
>>
>> vista la situazione di crisi sto cercando come dare maggiore visibilità
>> alle attività che offrono il servizio in oggetto. E chiedo consiglio a
>> tutti
>>
>> Ovviamente, "delivery" è il tag che oggi può essere di aiuto a tutti
>> coloro che non si possono spostare.
>>
>> Nel mio comune stiamo cercando di censire i luoghi che fanno (o che si
>> stanno organizzando) per le consegne.
>>
>> Facciamo qualcosa a livello nazionale? Oppure ognuno si fa il suo umap? ;)
>>
>> Grazie a chi mi risponderà
>> Francesco
>>
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Re: [Talk-it] Servizio di consegna a domicilio

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Perché disperdere l'informazione? Mapparlo correttamente su osm! Poi ci
puoi fare tutte le mappe che vuoi.

Il mar 10 mar 2020, 13:41 Francesco Ansanelli  ha
scritto:

> Buongiorno lista,
>
> vista la situazione di crisi sto cercando come dare maggiore visibilità
> alle attività che offrono il servizio in oggetto. E chiedo consiglio a
> tutti
>
> Ovviamente, "delivery" è il tag che oggi può essere di aiuto a tutti
> coloro che non si possono spostare.
>
> Nel mio comune stiamo cercando di censire i luoghi che fanno (o che si
> stanno organizzando) per le consegne.
>
> Facciamo qualcosa a livello nazionale? Oppure ognuno si fa il suo umap? ;)
>
> Grazie a chi mi risponderà
> Francesco
>
> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] {Disarmed} Re: #AttributionIsNotAnOption

[Christian Quest]

Un simple "(C) OpenStreetMap" avec un lien vers osm.org/copyright suffit

C'est vers ça que la nouvelle guideline d'attribution se dirige...


Le 10/03/2020 à 12:21, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :

Le 09/03/2020 à 22:37, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :

Message envoyé ce soir depuis le formulaire de contact


Réponse ce matin :

Pouvons-nous indiquer exactement « ©Les contributeurs d’OpenStreetMap 
sous licence ODbL – A propos 
 ». sur le modèle de ce qui 
est fait par le ministère de transition écologique et solidaire la 
mention (mais en français)

https://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv.fr/services-deconcentres-du-ministere

J'ai failli répondre :


En effet, cette attribution est correcte :

© les contributeurs OpenStreetMap 
, sous licence ODbL


Mais cette mention est pour l'utilisation de la base de données.


Pour la carte elle-même, sur https://www.openstreetmap.fr/open-data/ 
je lis :


fond de carte par OpenStreetMap France 
, sous licence CC BY-SA 




Donc, quelle est la bonne licence ?

Merci

Arnaud


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Re: [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al 10/3/2020)

[Lorenzo Rolla]

È un modello superato... ora la zona “rossa” è su tutto il territorio
nazionale...

Il giorno mar 10 mar 2020 alle 13:41 Damjan Gerl  ha
scritto:

> Direi che sarebbe utile un form pdf. A noi sul lavoro hanno dato un modulo
> leggermente differente, questo:
> https://www.damjan.net/tmp/modulo(2).pdf
>
> Damjan
>
>
> -- Original Header ---
>
> From  : "Lorenzo Rolla" rolla.l...@gmail.com
> To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> Cc  :
> Date  : Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:10:36 +0100
> Subject : [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al
> 10/3/2020)
>
> > Gentilissimi, allego il link che rimanda al modulo ufficiale del
> ministero
> > per gli spostamenti (aggiornato all'intero territorio nazionale).
> >
> > Chiedo, se opportuno e fattibile, l'opportunità di creare un pdf
> editabile
> > a disposizione della cittadinanza, visto la lunga "quarantena" imposta
> > dalle autorità... magari da mettere sul sito di openstreetmaps. Un
> cordiale
> > saluto. Lorenzo.
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.interno.gov.it/sites/default/files/allegati/modulo_autodichiarazione_10.3.2020.pdf
> >
> > --
> > Lorenzo Rolla
> >
>
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Re: [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al 10/3/2020)

[Damjan Gerl]

Direi che sarebbe utile un form pdf. A noi sul lavoro hanno dato un modulo 
leggermente differente, questo:
https://www.damjan.net/tmp/modulo(2).pdf

Damjan


-- Original Header ---

From  : "Lorenzo Rolla" rolla.l...@gmail.com
To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Cc  : 
Date  : Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:10:36 +0100
Subject : [Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al 10/3/2020)

> Gentilissimi, allego il link che rimanda al modulo ufficiale del ministero
> per gli spostamenti (aggiornato all'intero territorio nazionale).
> 
> Chiedo, se opportuno e fattibile, l'opportunità di creare un pdf editabile
> a disposizione della cittadinanza, visto la lunga "quarantena" imposta
> dalle autorità... magari da mettere sul sito di openstreetmaps. Un cordiale
> saluto. Lorenzo.
> 
> 
> https://www.interno.gov.it/sites/default/files/allegati/modulo_autodichiarazione_10.3.2020.pdf
> 
> -- 
> Lorenzo Rolla
> 

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[Talk-it] Servizio di consegna a domicilio

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Buongiorno lista,

vista la situazione di crisi sto cercando come dare maggiore visibilità
alle attività che offrono il servizio in oggetto. E chiedo consiglio a
tutti

Ovviamente, "delivery" è il tag che oggi può essere di aiuto a tutti coloro
che non si possono spostare.

Nel mio comune stiamo cercando di censire i luoghi che fanno (o che si
stanno organizzando) per le consegne.

Facciamo qualcosa a livello nazionale? Oppure ognuno si fa il suo umap? ;)

Grazie a chi mi risponderà
Francesco
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ajouter des objets à une relation ?

[Shohreh]

Je vais regarder, merci.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Joseph Eisenberg]

My understanding is that the common way to describe armchair mapping,
based on aerial imagery, is to identify the imagery source. So I often
write:

Changeset Comment: "Added and adjusted streams and rivers near Oksibil
with ESRI"
Changeset Source: "Esri world imagery"

This makes it clear that I used Esri imagery to map the streams and
rivers, right?

- Joseph Eisenberg

On 3/10/20, Sören Reinecke via talk  wrote:
> Hey
>
> some ideas about identifying such changes:
>
>
> Example changeset comment where a mapper did armchair mapping:
> Data updated, added amenity=restaurant
> #armchair
>
> In addition if the mapper works for a company:
> #
> e.g. #facebook
> #amazon
> #microsoft
> #apple
>
> Example changeset comment where a mapper did a survey and added data as
> (s)he saw it (from the ground):
> #survey
>
>
>
> This way we can organize our changes and Facebook and other companies and
> the community as well know how to validate and can distinguish changesets
> from another. I could create a wikipage where we think about this "changeset
> governance"
>
> Cheers
>
> Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution
> From: Volker Schmidt
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> CC:
>
>
>>
>>
>>> Fixing stuff in OSM purely from imagery may not be good.
>>>
>>> A local mapper who sees something may add it before any satellite imagery
>>> has it.
>>>
>>> If you then 'fix' this back to the satellite imagery you will have
>>> committed an error,
>>> and that error may dissuade our most important resource from ever making
>>> any further changes- the local mapper.
>>>
>>> Be very careful!
>>
>>
>> I second this last line !
>>
>> I am observing an influx of mixed-quality remote edits from Amazon
>> Logistics in my area.
>> I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or potential
>> changes (=suspected errors).
>> What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of
>> being able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be
>> armchair-mapping efforts.
>> I do not have a specific proposal, but I would appreciate a tool that
>> helps me, as local mapper,  find these edits, and, more importantly we
>> need a new approach to organise digesting these massive distributed
>> armchair-mapping interventions on OSM data.
>> I don't realistically think that banning these activities is good for OSM.
>> Not dealing in a systematic way with it at all presents, however, a big
>> risk of deteriorating the map for two reasons:
>> (1) bad armchair edits by Amazon and Facebook (and others)
>> (2) demotivating non-armchair mappers
>>
>> I repeat I do not have a proposal how to handle that. My main concern is
>> that the required work for locally checking even only those edits that
>> need checking (I am assuming that at least FB has good algorithms to sort
>> out the dead-certain corrections beforehand. I am more sceptical with
>> Amazon's changing local access tagging to, essentially, "yes" everywhere
>> they have delivered something by delivery van. I came across a good number
>> of them, and in most cases they were at least dubious)
>>
>> Volker
>> (Padova, Italy)
>

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] parking

[Philippe Verdy]

Les routes, tant qu'on les représente en filaire, peuvent avoir déjà
une surface estimée correctement (on a le nombre de lanes, et
possibilité aussi de taguer leur largeur et aussi d'ndiquer les
transition et le numéro de voie de séparation du tracé et sa position
à droite au centre ou à gauche).
Une conversion du filaire au surfacique a déjà lieu pour les routes
pour leur rendu: coller le parking à la route convient pour indiquer
la latéralité du parking, qui sera réduit d'autant que la route
s'élargit...

Le mar. 10 mars 2020 à 12:55, Marc M.  a écrit :
>
> Le 10.03.20 à 12:25, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :
> > la surface en terre est bien collée à la route
>
> elle est côlé à la route (area:highway=* serrait collé au parking)
> mais le parking en terre ne va pas jusqu'au milieu de la largeur de la
> route (comme dirait La Palice si c'est le milieu de la route, ce n'est
> pas le bord de la route).
>
> ceci dit, vu qu'il n'y a aucune modélisation parfaite de ce cas,
> je trouve que c'est pas très pertinent de basculer de l'un à l'autre
> même si pour ma part je prèfère aussi la version voie fictive
> parce qu'elle me permettra un jour de sortir les stats de la commune X%
> de la surface occupé par tel chose (donc avoir une fausse surface de
> parking ne me convient pas)
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ajouter des objets à une relation ?

[Marc M.]

Le 10.03.20 à 12:51, Shohreh a écrit :
> marc marc wrote
>> si quelqu'un veux récupérer "quelque chose" à une distance de son choix
>> de la relation, c'est facile à faire (on récupère la relation, les ways
>> donc les noeuds de ceux-ci et on demande "ce qu'on veux" à distance X
>> mètres de ceux-ci.
> 
> Ok.
> 
> Comment fait-on ? JOSM ?

josm permet de télécharger le long d'un tracé.
sinon la commande overpass api arround

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Andrew Harvey]

On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 21:14, Volker Schmidt  wrote:

> I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or potential
> changes (=suspected errors).
> What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of
> being able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be
> armchair-mapping efforts.
>

OSMCha has a ticket for integrating with OSM teams
https://github.com/mapbox/osmcha-frontend/issues/390 it would allow you to
open up OSMCha and filter for changesets by a given editing team in a given
area for you to review. There is a PR implementing this in OSMCha but it's
yet to be merged.
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] parking

[Marc M.]

Le 10.03.20 à 12:25, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :
> la surface en terre est bien collée à la route

elle est côlé à la route (area:highway=* serrait collé au parking)
mais le parking en terre ne va pas jusqu'au milieu de la largeur de la
route (comme dirait La Palice si c'est le milieu de la route, ce n'est
pas le bord de la route).

ceci dit, vu qu'il n'y a aucune modélisation parfaite de ce cas,
je trouve que c'est pas très pertinent de basculer de l'un à l'autre
même si pour ma part je prèfère aussi la version voie fictive
parce qu'elle me permettra un jour de sortir les stats de la commune X%
de la surface occupé par tel chose (donc avoir une fausse surface de
parking ne me convient pas)

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ajouter des objets à une relation ?

[Shohreh]

marc marc wrote
> si quelqu'un veux récupérer "quelque chose" à une distance de son choix
> de la relation, c'est facile à faire (on récupère la relation, les ways
> donc les noeuds de ceux-ci et on demande "ce qu'on veux" à distance X
> mètres de ceux-ci.

Ok.

Comment fait-on ? JOSM ?



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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Sören Reinecke via talk]

Heysome ideas about identifying such changes:Example changeset comment where a mapper did armchair mapping:Data updated, added amenity=restaurant#armchairIn addition if the mapper works for a company:#e.g. #facebook#amazon#microsoft#appleExample changeset comment where a mapper did a survey and added data as (s)he saw it (from the ground):#surveyThis way we can organize our changes and Facebook and other companies and the community as well know how to validate and can distinguish changesets from another. I could create a wikipage where we think about this "changeset governance"CheersSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map DistributionFrom: Volker Schmidt To: talk@openstreetmap.orgCC: Fixing stuff in OSM purely from imagery may not be good.

A local mapper who sees something may add it before any satellite imagery has it.

If you then 'fix' this back to the satellite imagery you will have committed an error,
and that error may dissuade our most important resource from ever making any further changes- the local mapper.

Be very careful!I second this last line !I am observing an influx of mixed-quality remote edits from Amazon Logistics in my area. I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or potential changes (=suspected errors).What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of being able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be armchair-mapping efforts.I do not have a specific proposal, but I would appreciate a tool that helps me, as local mapper,  find these edits, and, more importantly we need a new approach to organise digesting these massive distributed armchair-mapping interventions on OSM data.I don't realistically think that banning these activities is good for OSM. Not dealing in a systematic way with it at all presents, however, a big risk of deteriorating the map for two reasons: (1) bad armchair edits by Amazon and Facebook (and others)(2) demotivating non-armchair mappersI repeat I do not have a proposal how to handle that. My main concern is that the required work for locally checking even only those edits that need checking (I am assuming that at least FB has good algorithms to sort out the dead-certain corrections beforehand. I am more sceptical with Amazon's changing local access tagging to, essentially, "yes" everywhere they have delivered something by delivery van. I came across a good number of them, and in most cases they were at least dubious)Volker(Padova, Italy)
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ajouter des objets à une relation ?

[Marc M.]

Bonjour,

Le 10.03.20 à 12:09, Shohreh a écrit :
> Ce pied de réparation de vélo se trouve sur la Coulée verte du sud parisien
> Est-ce une bonne ou une mauvaise idée ?

une relation n'est pas une collection/guide touristique des environs.
ce n'est pas une bonne idée parce que c'est arbitraire/subjectif.
toi tu souhaites ajouter les points de réparation vélos proche disons de
10m. un autre considérerait qu'un point à 100m est aussi interessant
quand on en a besoin. un autre trouvera que le magasin de réparation
est dans le même cas, puis le banc et le point de vue, ensuite le café,
le parking vélo, le restaurant pour le midi, l'hotel pour un itinéraire
de plusieurs jours, le parking voiture de l'hôtel, la gare déservant cet
hôtel, etc

si quelqu'un veux récupérer "quelque chose" à une distance de son choix
de la relation, c'est facile à faire (on récupère la relation, les ways
donc les noeuds de ceux-ci et on demande "ce qu'on veux" à distance X
mètres de ceux-ci.

Cordialement,
Marc

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] #AttributionIsNotAnOption

[Jacques Lavignotte]

C'est-y bon :

https://www.semaines-sante-mentale.fr/agenda/

??


Le 04/03/2020 à 09:37, Christian Quest a écrit :
Depuis avant hier, j'ai modifié notre cache de tuiles pour qu'il affiche 
quelque tuiles "L'attribution n'est pas une option" parmi les fonds de 
carte qu'il sert sur les domaines utilisant les fonds produits par OSM 
France et où l'attribution est absente.


Cette petite campagne a commencé sur twitter avec ce tweet: 
https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234516075695525888


Ici c'était les pages jaunes marocaines... et en moins de 24h, 
l'attribution est apparue :)


Un premier mail reçu d'un autre site hier, et depuis j'ai ajouté une 
adresse mail (ti...@openstreetmap.fr) dans la tuile et ce matin deux 
mail reçus demandant comment les retirer !



Bref, ça fonctionne et plutôt pas mal :)


La liste des domaines est gérée manuellement, je vais tenter 
d'automatiser ça. L'idée est de récupérer la liste des referer depuis 
les logs du cache et de consulter la page en question avec selenium pour 
détecter la présence d'un "OpenStreetMap" quelque part sur la page. 
Cette liste permettra aussi de repérer les gros consommateurs pour une 
éventuelle deuxième campagne sur l'usage abusif de ressources limitées.


En attendant, la page du wiki avec les attributions manquantes est le 
meilleur moyen de signaler ces "oublis":


- https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
- 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Manque_d%27attribution_appropri%C3%A9e 



Indiquez bien si possible l'URL de la page concernée...



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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Florimond Berthoux]

My proposal :

survey > aerial imagery.

So its the aerial imagery mapper who has to check that its aerial imageries
are more recent than the last changes made with survey sources.
That’s something I do often when I see weird differences.
(So we put the load on the big companies instead of the free local mappers
;)

Regards.

Le mar. 10 mars 2020 à 11:14, Volker Schmidt  a écrit :

>
>
> Fixing stuff in OSM purely from imagery may not be good.
>>
>> A local mapper who sees something may add it before any satellite imagery
>> has it.
>>
>> If you then 'fix' this back to the satellite imagery you will have
>> committed an error,
>> and that error may dissuade our most important resource from ever making
>> any further changes- the local mapper.
>>
>> Be very careful!
>>
>
> I second this last line !
>
> I am observing an influx of mixed-quality remote edits from Amazon
> Logistics in my area.
> I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or potential
> changes (=suspected errors).
> What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of
> being able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be
> armchair-mapping efforts.
> I do not have a specific proposal, but I would appreciate a tool that
> helps me, as local mapper,  find these edits, and, more importantly we need
> a new approach to organise digesting these massive distributed
> armchair-mapping interventions on OSM data.
> I don't realistically think that banning these activities is good for OSM.
> Not dealing in a systematic way with it at all presents, however, a big
> risk of deteriorating the map for two reasons:
> (1) bad armchair edits by Amazon and Facebook (and others)
> (2) demotivating non-armchair mappers
>
> I repeat I do not have a proposal how to handle that. My main concern is
> that the required work for locally checking even only those edits that need
> checking (I am assuming that at least FB has good algorithms to sort out
> the dead-certain corrections beforehand. I am more sceptical with Amazon's
> changing local access tagging to, essentially, "yes" everywhere they have
> delivered something by delivery van. I came across a good number of them,
> and in most cases they were at least dubious)
>
> Volker
> (Padova, Italy)
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>


-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] parking

[Arnaud Champollion]

Le 10/03/2020 à 12:15, Stéphane Péneau a écrit :
Dans 1 cas, on "invente" une voie d'accès, et la représentation 
surfacique du parking est correcte.
Dans l'autre, on fausse la surface du parking en l'agrandissant pour 
venir se coller à l'axe de la route.


En même temps dans le deuxième cas, on ne fausse pas tant que ça, car 
ici la surface en terre est bien collée à la route. On peut y entrer par 
n'importe quel endroit, il n'y a pas de fossé, ni terre plein.



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] #AttributionIsNotAnOption

[Arnaud Champollion]

Le 09/03/2020 à 22:37, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :

Message envoyé ce soir depuis le formulaire de contact


Réponse ce matin :

Pouvons-nous indiquer exactement « ©Les contributeurs d’OpenStreetMap 
sous licence ODbL – A propos 
 ». sur le modèle de ce qui est 
fait par le ministère de transition écologique et solidaire la mention 
(mais en français)

https://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv.fr/services-deconcentres-du-ministere

J'ai failli répondre :


En effet, cette attribution est correcte :

© les contributeurs OpenStreetMap 
, sous licence ODbL


Mais cette mention est pour l'utilisation de la base de données.


Pour la carte elle-même, sur https://www.openstreetmap.fr/open-data/ je 
lis :


fond de carte par OpenStreetMap France 
, sous licence CC BY-SA 




Donc, quelle est la bonne licence ?

Merci

Arnaud































Le 09/03/2020 à 19:39, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :

En tout cas ce sont bien des tuiles OSM qu'ils utilisent, avec leaflet.

Sans qu'aucune mention n'apparaisse nulle part, même pas leaflet.

Si on regarde de près le code de la page on trouve par exemple :


src="https://b.tile.openstreetmap.org/13/4238/2975.png; 
class="leaflet-tile leaflet-tile-loaded" style="width: 256px; height: 
256px; transform: translate3d(247px, -16px, 0px); opacity: 1;">







Le 09/03/2020 à 19:25, Philippe Verdy a écrit :

J'ajouterais aussi cette page concernant les mentions légales du site
de l'éducation nationale:

https://www.education.gouv.fr/mentions-legales-du-site-educationgouvfr-4526 



Il est fait mention des crédits photographiques (agences commerciales
comme Getty), mais pratiquement tout le reste est sous copyright
réservé, cette longue page de restrictions doit être revue pour les
autres catégories d'attributions ! En tout cas dans l'état on ne peut
rien utiliser sur OSM venant de ce site.

Le lun. 9 mars 2020 à 19:20, Philippe Verdy  a 
écrit :

Argh! même le gouvernement français nous impose ses cookies traceurs
de réseaux sociaux commerciaux (on peut les enlever mais je trouve
quand même qu'on est déjà trop suivi et je pense que c'est mal venu
que ces réseaux suivent les visites des sites officiels
gouvernementaux alros que ce sonts des sites de plus en plus imposés
pour plein de démarches privées que les réseaux sociaux n'ont pas à
connaitre!)

Sur cette page concernant les licences il y a un lien évident qui
pourrait traiter les deux problèmes (vie privée et respect du droit
d'auteur): "contacter le délégué à la protection des données" (je ne
vois pas d'autres moyens de contact évidents sur cette page)

https://www.education.gouv.fr/contactez-nous-41633/category/taxonomy/term/113264 



Le lun. 9 mars 2020 à 19:09, Arnaud Champollion
 a écrit :

Bonjour,

Soit j'ai mal vu, soit on a une grosse boîte qui utilise OSM sans
attribution : l'Éducation Nationale.

Exemple :

https://www.education.gouv.fr/annuaire/04-alpes-de-haute-provence/digne-les-bains/etab/ecole-primaire-le-pigeonnier.html 



Je mets à jour le Wiki.

Arnaud



Le 04/03/2020 à 09:37, Christian Quest a écrit :

Depuis avant hier, j'ai modifié notre cache de tuiles pour qu'il
affiche quelque tuiles "L'attribution n'est pas une option" parmi 
les

fonds de carte qu'il sert sur les domaines utilisant les fonds
produits par OSM France et où l'attribution est absente.

Cette petite campagne a commencé sur twitter avec ce tweet:
https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234516075695525888

Ici c'était les pages jaunes marocaines... et en moins de 24h,
l'attribution est apparue :)

Un premier mail reçu d'un autre site hier, et depuis j'ai ajouté une
adresse mail (ti...@openstreetmap.fr) dans la tuile et ce matin deux
mail reçus demandant comment les retirer !


Bref, ça fonctionne et plutôt pas mal :)


La liste des domaines est gérée manuellement, je vais tenter
d'automatiser ça. L'idée est de récupérer la liste des referer 
depuis

les logs du cache et de consulter la page en question avec selenium
pour détecter la présence d'un "OpenStreetMap" quelque part sur la
page. Cette liste permettra aussi de repérer les gros consommateurs
pour une éventuelle deuxième campagne sur l'usage abusif de 
ressources

limitées.

En attendant, la page du wiki avec les attributions manquantes 
est le

meilleur moyen de signaler ces "oublis":

- https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
-
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Manque_d%27attribution_appropri%C3%A9e 



Indiquez bien si possible l'URL de la page concernée...



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] parking

[Stéphane Péneau]

Je ne suis pas trop fan de coller le parking à l'axe de la route.

Malheureusement, je ne crois pas qu'il y a de solution parfaite 
lorsqu'on mélange du surfacique et du filaire.


Dans 1 cas, on "invente" une voie d'accès, et la représentation 
surfacique du parking est correcte.
Dans l'autre, on fausse la surface du parking en l'agrandissant pour 
venir se coller à l'axe de la route.


Perso, je suis plutôt partisan de la première solution.

Stf


Le 09/03/2020 à 21:30, Romain MEHUT a écrit :

Bonsoir,

J'ai annulé ma modification.

Romain

Le lun. 9 mars 2020 à 16:23, Bernard Lefrançois 
mailto:bernard.lefranc...@free.fr>> a écrit :


Bonjour,
Je partage plutôt la vision de Jean-Yvon.
Sur ta dernière version:
- tu laisses un espace vide qui n'existe pas entre le parking et
la route.
- tu crées à un emplacement aléatoire une voie qui n'existe pas
non plus.

Lorsque je cartographie un parking, j'applique la règle suivante:
- le parking est séparé réellement de la route (par un fossé, une
bande d'herbe, un trottoir etc.), je le trace en surfacique avec
ses limites réelles. Et dans ce cas, il y a forcément une voie
pour y accéder et je la représente à sa place.
- ou bien:  le parking borde la route sans séparation et dans ce
cas une partie du polygone représentant le parking est commune
avec le linéaire de la route. Inutile de rajouter ici une voie
d'accès puisque cet accès est possible sur toute la longueur.

Le 08/03/2020 à 21:38, Romain MEHUT a écrit :

J'ai proposé une autre version toute simple.
Romain

Le dim. 8 mars 2020 à 11:53, mailto:osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com>> a écrit :

Oui voir : http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/byuser/ririahp

L'erreur c'est d'avoir fait coller le parking au dessin de la
route au
lieu de le faire coller au fil de la route : mélange
représentation
filaire/représentation surfacique. J'ai corrigé.

Jean-Yvon

Le 08/03/2020 à 08:36, Arnaud Champollion -
arnaud.champoll...@linux-alpes.org
 a écrit :
> Bonjour,
>
> Question suite aux contributions du groupe OSMDigne réuni hier
> après-midi.
>
> Quand on trace un parking comme surface, faut-il nécessairement
> ajouter une voie de type highway pour le connecter à la route ?
>
> Le cas se trouve ici :
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/43.81467/6.24606
>
> Sur la vue aérienne il est visible qu'il n'y a pas
réellement de voies
> pour entrer / sortir, ni de voies de parking, seulement une
aire en
> terre battue qui borde la route.
>
> Merci de vos avis,
>
> Bonne journée,
>
> Arnaud
>
>
>
>
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[Talk-it] nuovo modulo ufficiale spostamenti (aggiornato al 10/3/2020)

[Lorenzo Rolla]

Gentilissimi, allego il link che rimanda al modulo ufficiale del ministero
per gli spostamenti (aggiornato all'intero territorio nazionale).

Chiedo, se opportuno e fattibile, l'opportunità di creare un pdf editabile
a disposizione della cittadinanza, visto la lunga "quarantena" imposta
dalle autorità... magari da mettere sul sito di openstreetmaps. Un cordiale
saluto. Lorenzo.


https://www.interno.gov.it/sites/default/files/allegati/modulo_autodichiarazione_10.3.2020.pdf

-- 
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[OSM-talk-fr] Ajouter des objets à une relation ?

[Shohreh]

Bonjour,

Ce pied de réparation de vélo se trouve sur la Coulée verte du sud parisien
:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7252484977

Il me semble pratique de l'ajouter à la relation de cette piste
cyclable/véloroute, d'autant qu'il existe déjà des nœuds dont le rôle est
"guidepost" : https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2646085

C'est un moyen simple de récupérer une route et des éléments qui lui sont
liés.

Est-ce une bonne ou une mauvaise idée ?

Merci.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] BIPT antennas

[Lionel Giard]

*@ Vucodil :*
One solution could be to map everything as telecom=antenna if they don't
match a mast/tower (already mapped), and put a "fixme=check if a mast or
tower is present". Note that on a rooftop, you generally don't have a mast
(it is a small support structure that we can just consider being
"telecom=antenna" and maybe in the future, we could use a
"antenna:support=*" tag ;-) ). *[1]*

For mast and tower, use the obvious existing one, or map it if it is
visible (some of them can be easily seen on imagery), and use the
man_made=mast or tower tag like usual and change it later on if needed (if
a future proposal is done for it). :-p

For man_made=antenna, i don't think it is better than telecom=antenna
(neither one or the other was ever approved formally). The telecom key was
created to refine the telecom tagging following the same idea that was used
for the power infrastructure (with the power key). I'm completely in favor
of redesigning the telecom infrastructure tagging like the french community
started to push (especially focused on cable and fiber infrastructure at
the moment), as they seem quite experienced with infrastructure tagging as
they were involve in power tagging... :-p
So using telecom=antenna seems more logical in order to already start using
a "proper" tag instead of a general tag like man_made=antenna (that we
could regret later on). And it can always be changed if/when someone do a
proper proposal and approval process later on (as that would be the only
difference, as the subkey will probably be identical).

antenna:use seems functionally equivalent to the subtag
communication:*=yes/no

(like communication:mobile_phone=yes/no). I don't see an improvement as the
communication:*=yes/no is already used for all mast/tower* (including
power=tower ! *As they can have antenna on them (i don't know if that's the
case in Belgium)*)*, so we should maybe use it for antenna too. ^_^ One
example that i did map like that for an antenna (on top of a watertower
here) was https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5968512028 .

*[1]* I work at one of our telecom company and i can see their structure
data (pylons, mast, ...) and it is very detailed but unfortunately it is
closed data. :D But antenna on rooftop have a structure type :
"self-supported roof structure". ;-)
We should push BIPT to open more infrastructure data. :-D **dreaming* *


Le lun. 9 mars 2020 à 22:18, Vucodil via Talk-be 
a écrit :

> Hello everyone,
>
> Already thanks for all the feedback! I answer some of your questions in
> the following topics:
>
> *Continuous update (@Midgard and @*
> *rodeo.be  )*
>
> It was in the back of my head but I didn't want to plan it yet. I will
> probably work on that but not soon.
> Note that the list of BIPT antennas is updated monthly. Is there server
> for scheduled scripts within OSM BE ?
>
> *Workflow (@Midgard)*
>
> The distance triggering manual review has been changed to 25m.
>
> > 3) And even then, just dumping elements in OSM without manual review is
> not considered best
> > practice, but since it's only nodes, things are relatively simple and I
> won't object. I would
> > just like to see that they're not placed too close to any other existing
> node, but that can be
> > checked automatically.
>
> Like one meter? Is there JOSM tool for that?
>
> *BIPT (@**Thibault Rommel)*
>
> I agree. I updated the proposal
>
> *Latitude and longitude as tag (@s8evq and **@Midgard**)*
>
> That's a mistake. I only wanted to explain that I use the longitude and
> latitude provided in the dataset. It has been updated.
>
> *Open data Portal (@rodeo.be )*
>
> Good idea. I will inform BIPT of the positive feedback of the OSM BE
> community and I will kindly push them to do so.
>
> *Precision of the localisation*
>
> Looking alone at 9000 nodes for manual review is quite some work. Would it
> be acceptable to have a FIXME tag stating that the localization could be a
> few meters offset? Or is it considered to pollute the OSM db to do so?
>
> *Tagging (@Lionel**, @Karel Adams, @midgard)*
>
> If I had found the discussion from 2018 before, I would have maybe not
> prepared the import :-D.
>
> *What to map?*
>
> The BITP dataset include a list of sites used in our mobile phone network.
> Each site can include multiple supports for antennas. And each support can
> include multiple directional antennas.
> There is no info on the support in the dataset. That's why I focused on
> mapping the antennas (or the group of antennas). Are they enough visible in
> our landscape?
> I think so. On rooftop in cities, those groups of antennas are often
> visible. Their white color is often even more visible than the support
> itself.
> On other structures like tower, @lionel already mentioned that the
> antennas could be tagged with telecom=antenna
> 

Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Christoph Hormann]

On Tuesday 10 March 2020, Michal Migurski wrote:
>
>   • A PBF planet file composed of 100% OSM data, released under the
> terms of the Open Database License. • Only those edits which have
> been validated to contain no malicious vandalism or unintentional
> errors so we can show them in our display maps

Could someone maybe do an analysis of the diff regarding numbers of 
features removed/changed/added for various types of objects?

Regarding

>   • A PBF planet file composed of 100% OSM data

that is probably an incorrect characterization because any time you 
modify OSM data without uploading the results to OSM what you get is no 
more 100% OSM data.

Thinking this further - the real question is if there is other data used 
in production of the maps using this that constitutes a derivative 
database according to the ODbL or in other words:  Does Facebook claim 
that this is the only derivative database they are using?

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] tile.osm.be

[Tim Couwelier]

As I understood from Jonathan, the process isn't fully automated yet. Was
supposedly to get updated on a near-weekly basis, but it must've slipped
from attention.
I'd guess that moving on towards a full automation of the process would go
a long way?

Op di 10 mrt. 2020 om 11:05 schreef rodeo .be :

> Hey all,
>
> I see this tile server has not been updated the last months. Is the future
> of that tile service unsure?
>
> Btw, we asked several organiations to use those tiles in the past (see
> here ):
> "*Met OpenStreetMap Belgium hebben we in samenwerking met een sponsor een
> tile-server optgezet die wel expliciet bedoeld is om te gebruiken in uw
> situatie.*"
>
> I think it would be worth it to keep that service! How can we help?
>
> KR
> Maarten
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Volker Schmidt]

Fixing stuff in OSM purely from imagery may not be good.
>
> A local mapper who sees something may add it before any satellite imagery
> has it.
>
> If you then 'fix' this back to the satellite imagery you will have
> committed an error,
> and that error may dissuade our most important resource from ever making
> any further changes- the local mapper.
>
> Be very careful!
>

I second this last line !

I am observing an influx of mixed-quality remote edits from Amazon
Logistics in my area.
I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or potential
changes (=suspected errors).
What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of
being able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be
armchair-mapping efforts.
I do not have a specific proposal, but I would appreciate a tool that helps
me, as local mapper,  find these edits, and, more importantly we need a new
approach to organise digesting these massive distributed armchair-mapping
interventions on OSM data.
I don't realistically think that banning these activities is good for OSM.
Not dealing in a systematic way with it at all presents, however, a big
risk of deteriorating the map for two reasons:
(1) bad armchair edits by Amazon and Facebook (and others)
(2) demotivating non-armchair mappers

I repeat I do not have a proposal how to handle that. My main concern is
that the required work for locally checking even only those edits that need
checking (I am assuming that at least FB has good algorithms to sort out
the dead-certain corrections beforehand. I am more sceptical with Amazon's
changing local access tagging to, essentially, "yes" everywhere they have
delivered something by delivery van. I came across a good number of them,
and in most cases they were at least dubious)

Volker
(Padova, Italy)
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[OSM-talk-be] tile.osm.be

[rodeo .be]

Hey all,

I see this tile server has not been updated the last months. Is the future
of that tile service unsure?

Btw, we asked several organiations to use those tiles in the past (see here
): "*Met
OpenStreetMap Belgium hebben we in samenwerking met een sponsor een
tile-server optgezet die wel expliciet bedoeld is om te gebruiken in uw
situatie.*"

I think it would be worth it to keep that service! How can we help?

KR
Maarten
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Projet du mois de mars - #balanceTaBorne - problème des prise type3 <> type3c

[Noémie Lehuby via Talk-fr]

Bonjour,

tu as raison Marc, il y a une confusion entre le T3 et le T3c :
je ne crois pas avoir déjà vu de T3, mais en effet, j'ai moi-même taggé 
quelques prises T3c en socket:type3 par erreur.


L'édition de masse me semble risquée, mais on pourra peut-être 
l'envisager par réseau ou opérateur une fois qu'on aura avancé dans la 
qualification des bornes de recharge existantes.


Autre question : On a également des prises T3 mentionnées dans les 
données open data (réseaux Révéo, Alterbase, SIEGE 27, Watt else?, 
SYDEV, etc). Est-ce que ce sont également des T3c ?


--
Noémie Lehuby
Jungle Bus - http://junglebus.io

Le 09/03/2020 à 15:56, Marc M. a écrit :

Bonjour,

J'allais modifier le wiki pour déplacer le type de socket 3c dans la
catégorie "courant en France" et voulant sourcer mon avis, j'ai regarder
pour confirmation. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.fr/search?q=socket%3A
et là je vois que le type3 surpasse le type3c.
la page du projet renseigne aussi type3 et non type3c

Mais à ma connaissance, ce n'est pas le même type de prise.
j'avais même ajouté la photo type3c sur le wiki l'an passé
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Socket.type3c.jpg
a comparer avec la photo du type3
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Colonnine.jpg

Du coup quid ?
on continue à renseigner un type de prise pas exact ?
on vérifie les prises type3 pour voir si sont des type3c mal renseigné ?
on fait une édition de masse si personne n'a jamais vu de "type3" autre
que les type3c ?

Cordialement,
Marc

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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet torrents...

[Maarten Deen]

On 2020-03-07 09:36, Christian Quest wrote:


This week was the first one I had nothing to do (or fix) :)


Do you have scripts for this? (have to ask before I go make one myself)


Do not hesitate to share your own findings if you have tested the
planet torrents !


I've been seeding now for 2 days, 21 hours and have a ratio of 0.43.

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: [talk-au] Burn area mapping

[Ewen Hill]

Hi, I would not be going anywhere near the burnt area datasets as others
have said. There maybe in places new deserts created due to the vegetation
being susceptible unfortunately (wetlands that never deal with fire) but
the rest will grow back. Burnt areas can be just ground, tame back-burning
or the entire canopy with catastrophic results so it's hard to map anyway.

With regard to dams, I would make the dry ones intermittent. If the farm
and dam look derelict or the dam has a clear break in it, then perhaps not
but otherwise I see it as a way to assist with water catchments.


On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 17:33, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 16:29, Phil Wyatt  wrote:
>
>> No, I wouldn’t map them,
>>
>
> Any particular reason why not, Phil?
>
> Or do you mean just not map them while they're dry?
>
>   Thanks
>
> Graeme
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-- 
Warm Regards

Ewen Hill
Internet Development Australia
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Re: [talk-au] Burn area mapping

[cleary]

In regard to mapping reservoirs without water:

In rural areas, I have mapped some reservoirs with "intermittent=yes" where 
that is appropriate. While they are correctly mapped as reservoirs, it is 
probably helpful to show that there is not always water in them.  If some 
imagery shows water and some doesn't, then I am comfortable to conclude that 
the water is intermittent.




On Tue, 10 Mar 2020, at 6:20 AM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 16:13, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Past fires have not been mapped, I see no reason to start doing it.  
> > Thoughts? 
> 
> Agree with you entirely.
> 
> On a related note, I've been working through the Blue Mountains 
> challenge area mapping every POI I can spot - buildings, tracks, water 
> tanks & reservoirs, amongst others. With regard to reservoirs, a lot of 
> them are showing as dry, due to the drought, but I've still been 
> mapping them, as, after the last few weeks, they're probably full 
> again! :-)
> 
> Again, the right way to do it?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Burn area mapping

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 16:29, Phil Wyatt  wrote:

> No, I wouldn’t map them,
>

Any particular reason why not, Phil?

Or do you mean just not map them while they're dry?

  Thanks

Graeme
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[talk-ph] Invitation to MAPAbabae2020 at UP Diliman on March 16, 2020

[Arnalie Faye Vicario via talk-ph]

[Hi! It's me again! XD]
MAPAbabae goes to UP Diliman! 
Our second event for MAPAbabae will be hosted by DSWD, GeoladiesPH and UP Dept. 
of Geography, in cooperation with the UP Diliman Gender Office. The event will 
also formally open this year's Geography Week (March 16-20, 2020).
The target participants for the activity are faculty members, students, and 
volunteer mappers who can help in populating the Violence Against Women and 
Children (VAWC) Resources Map.
Kindly fill out this registration form to confirm your attendance on 16 March 
2020, Monday, 1:00PM at the Geography Conference Room, Palma Hall Pavilion 
2248, UP Diliman: http://bit.ly/MAPAbabae2020atUPDiliman.
Thanks for the support and we hope to see you there! :)
=Nalie 
t.me/arnalielsewhere


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Re: [Talk-it] Ref per farmacie

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Il lun 9 mar 2020, 22:36 Andrea Albani  ha scritto:

>
>
> Il giorno lun 9 mar 2020 alle ore 21:33 Francesco Ansanelli <
> franci...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> Buonasera a tutti,
>>
>> ho aggiornato i tag ref delle farmacie:
>>
>> Se qualcuno ha un po' di tempo sarebbe molto apprezzato l'aiuto per i
>> controlli manuali e per una eventuale query per verificare che non ci siano
>> doppioni (stesso ref per oggetti diversi su OSM), viceversa farò uno script
>> di qualche riga.
>>
>>
> Con questo trovi gli id msal con numerosità>1. Ci sono solo 7 duplicati.
>
> Ciao
>
> [out:csv(ref,count)];
> {{geocodeArea:Italia}}->.searchArea;
> nwr["amenity"="pharmacy"]["ref:msal"](area.searchArea);
> for (t["ref:msal"])
>  {
>   if ((count(nodes) + count(ways) + count(relations))>1){
>   make stat ref=_.val,count=(count(nodes) + count(ways) +
> count(relations));
> out;
>   }
>  }
>

Grazie molte Andrea! Più tardi la provo

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Re: [talk-au] Burn area mapping

[Warin]

On 10/3/20 5:20 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:



On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 16:13, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


Past fires have not been mapped, I see no reason to start doing it.

Thoughts?


Agree with you entirely.

On a related note, I've been working through the Blue 
Mountains challenge area mapping every POI I can spot - buildings, 
tracks, water tanks & reservoirs, amongst others. With regard to 
reservoirs, a lot of them are showing as dry, due to the drought, but 
I've still been mapping them, as, after the last few weeks, they're 
probably full again! :-)


Again, the right way to do it?



 I think so. Sydney dams are now 82% full with  the Nepean overflowing last 
week (?), so I'd expect them to be fairly full now.

They should show up on the LPI Base Map if you not certain of the extents.


Presently I'm trying to separate state forests from a tree area in the Oxley 
area. Then I'll add some tree extent detail.

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Re: [talk-au] Feedback to ARA on their SA bushfire imagery made available to OSM

[Andrew Harvey]

As far as I can tell I've loaded up all the flights they've done.

On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 17:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> That imagery is amazing!
>
> Is it available for anywhere else? :-)
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Burn area mapping

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 16:13, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Past fires have not been mapped, I see no reason to start doing it.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
Agree with you entirely.

On a related note, I've been working through the Blue Mountains challenge
area mapping every POI I can spot - buildings, tracks, water tanks &
reservoirs, amongst others. With regard to reservoirs, a lot of them are
showing as dry, due to the drought, but I've still been mapping them, as,
after the last few weeks, they're probably full again! :-)

Again, the right way to do it?

Thanks

Graeme
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