Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Jernej Simončič]

On Wednesday, June 10, 2020, 13:26:00, Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA wrote:

>> - set Windows to High Contrast Black colour scheme, and fix all
>>   elements that retain light background (status bar and tabs in main
>>   window, some icons in status bar of message editor)

> Noted, thanks!

Another really annoying one: every time a new .msi is released, the
pinned icon in taskbar stops working. I've been skipping .msi releases
for this reason, because I then have to unpin the old icon and pin the
new one (and move it to the beginning of taskbar, so my Win+number
order remains the same).

And here's one not so much a PITA, but a would-be-nice-to-have: when
there are deep threads, TB currently expands the Subject column (see
attached thebat.png) - I'd like it better if it did the same thing as
my newsreader, which simply restarts too deep threads at the beginning
of the column, and indicates that it did this by changing the colour
of the tree lines (see dialog.png; I had to make the window very
narrow to show the effect, since I couldn't find any deep enough
thread there).

-- 
< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< https://eternallybored.org/ >

Estimating a figure may be enough to catch an error.
   -- Berkeley's Fifteenth Law

TheBat! Version 9.1.18.7 (BETA) (64-bit), Windows 10.0.19041 
'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[mse]

Hello Stefan,

STvT> - within next few weeks, we will try to fix with top PITAs (please
STvT> feel free to name your favourite ones), make some minor additions and
STvT> facelifting, then release a new v9.x.x update.

welcome back!
I appreciate your work I am happy to see future developments. 

In another mail you indicated to move the GUI to a more open and less 
dense state. I welcome a modern and sleek look.

Please also consider HighDPI-users. The GUI has some glitches in some 
areas related to a high zoom factor in Windows (I use 150% on a 4k 
screen). 

Thanks and best regards,
mse
-- 
Using The Bat! Version 9.1.18.7 (BETA) (32-bit) Pro on
Windows 10 (Build 18363) (64-bit) without OTFE



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stuart Cuddy]

Hello Andrew,
Wednesday, June 10, 2020, 9:15:58 AM, you wrote:

> ...Isn't anyone concerned about the concept of "rich HTML" messages 
> here? Remote content, embedded 1px images and JS...

> Good HTML parser - simple HTML parser.

Yes, however, my preference would be that messages by default open with The Bat
viewer, unless it is from a trusted source. Currently that is the way I operate,
but it would be nice if I could automatically have selected trusted sources open
with the new viewer so I don't have to switch on every second message. Some
messages are unreadable unless you use non-internal viewer.

-- 
Best regards,
 Stuartmailto:skcu...@fastmail.fm



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Re[3]: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Andrew Savchenko]

Hello Paul,

Wednesday, June 10, 2020, 11:35:45 PM, you wrote:

> I  have  been opening html messages with a browser since v. 1.1. Nothing
> like  using  the right tool for the job. This policy has never failed me
> yet...

...Isn't anyone concerned about the concept of "rich HTML" messages 
here? Remote content, embedded 1px images and JS...

Good HTML parser - simple HTML parser.


-- 
Regards,
A



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Re[2]: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Paul Van Noord]

6/10/2020  10:05 AM

On 6/10/2020 The Bat Beta wrote:

>> Except...  not even Microsoft use the IE engine any more. Edge browser
>> on  Win10  uses Chrome. I am not enthusiastic about keeping ties to an
>> API that the maker no longer uses.

>> The  TB  native rendering engine doesn't do a great job for me. A tiny
>> percentage of HTML mails show correct formatting at my end so I end up
>> reluctantly  relying  on the system HTML renderer (despite the lack of
>> obedience to the download manager).

TF> Fully agree. I could make a long lsit of problems with TB's internal
TF> HTML rendering engine, but that is moot if we will get a compeltely
TF> new one anyway.

TF> Cheers,
TF> Thomas.

I  have  been opening html messages with a browser since v. 1.1. Nothing
like  using  the right tool for the job. This policy has never failed me
yet...

- --
Paul

32bit TB 9.1.18.3 (BETA)  Windows 7 Pro 7600 
No IMAP  No OTFE



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Marck,

On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 09:59:22 +0100 GMT (10-Jun-20, 15:59 +0700 GMT),
Marck Pearlstone wrote:


> On 10 June 2020 at 09:36 Jernej Simončič wrote and made these points

JS>> On Monday, June 1, 2020, 23:48:18, Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA wrote:

>>> - after that, we're going to remove the outdated built-in HTML
>>> renderer and IE-based system's one and use Chromium-based renderer
> ... 

JS>> Oh great, another copy of Chromium running :)

JS>> I really wouldn't mind if IE stays, as long as it'd respect the Image
JS>> Download Manager (it currently doesn't).

> Except...  not even Microsoft use the IE engine any more. Edge browser
> on  Win10  uses Chrome. I am not enthusiastic about keeping ties to an
> API that the maker no longer uses.

> The  TB  native rendering engine doesn't do a great job for me. A tiny
> percentage of HTML mails show correct formatting at my end so I end up
> reluctantly  relying  on the system HTML renderer (despite the lack of
> obedience to the download manager).

Fully agree. I could make a long lsit of problems with TB's internal
HTML rendering engine, but that is moot if we will get a compeltely
new one anyway.

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit)
under Windows 10.0 Build 18362



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA]

Hello Jernej,

> Welcome back :)

Thank you! :)

> - set Windows to High Contrast Black colour scheme, and fix all
>   elements that retain light background (status bar and tabs in main
>   window, some icons in status bar of message editor)

Noted, thanks!

> Oh great, another copy of Chromium running :)

Yeah, it's going to become a part of any Desktop OS soon, I guess. This would 
actually save terabits of bandwidth worldwide... :)


-- 
Best regards,
Stefan Tanurkov



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA]

Hello Jernej,

Wednesday, June 10, 2020, 1:23:45 PM, you wrote:

> IE engine should suffice for e-mails - pretty much all newsletters are
> designed with Outlook in mind, and that uses Word to render HTML
> (which is even more limited than IE).

Outlook has its own rendering engine, it's quite different from IE. IE
become outdated long time ago, I have seen a lot of examples where it
renders messages in a really weird way. Another thing is - on
different systems of different people, different versions of IE are
used and this also creates another department of hell. 

-- 
Best regards,
Stefan Tanurkov



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Jernej Simončič]

On Wednesday, June 10, 2020, 10:59:22, Marck Pearlstone wrote:

> Except...  not even Microsoft use the IE engine any more. Edge browser
> on  Win10  uses Chrome. I am not enthusiastic about keeping ties to an
> API that the maker no longer uses.

IE engine should suffice for e-mails - pretty much all newsletters are
designed with Outlook in mind, and that uses Word to render HTML
(which is even more limited than IE).

-- 
< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< https://eternallybored.org/ >

Much work, much food; little work, little food; no work, burial at sea.
   -- Cook's Law

TheBat! Version 9.1.18.6 (ALPHA) (64-bit), Windows 10.0.19041 



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA]

Hello NetVicious,

> Welcome back Stefan.

Thank you!

>  - Allow translating the new customizer.
>  
> -  Finish  it.  I loved when I can edit all the menus of TB! and leave
> only things what I use and hide other ones.

We'll need to review both of these in light of dropping the DevExpress 
interface.

> -  The  option  for "ignore changes" on Column Views changed a lot of 
> versions ago...

Noted, thank you! :-)


> PD: The Bat! for Android sounds very good ;-)

I tend to agree, even though I'm an Apple addict :-)   I don't want to be too 
fast on promises - it's better to eat this elephant by small portions...


-- 
Best regards,
Stefan Tanurkov



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA]

Hello Johannes,

OK, I see. Thank you for explanation!

> RitLabs publishes, as many others, a DMARC setting for their domain
> (v=DMARC1; p=reject; rua=mailto:dmarc-...@ritlabs.com; ruf=mailto:
> dmarc-...@ritlabs.com). This mailing list thus cannot generate a mail from
> you @ritlabs.com without this mail being rejected at all sites performing a
> DMARC check (it all started with Yahoo's p=reject a long time ago). We then
> updated Mailman and setit so that for domains with such settings, the From:
> domain ist rewritten to the mailing list.


-- 
Best regards,
Stefan Tanurkov



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Marck Pearlstone]

On 10 June 2020 at 09:36 Jernej Simončič wrote and made these points

JS> On Monday, June 1, 2020, 23:48:18, Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA wrote:

>> - after that, we're going to remove the outdated built-in HTML
>> renderer and IE-based system's one and use Chromium-based renderer
... 

JS> Oh great, another copy of Chromium running :)

JS> I really wouldn't mind if IE stays, as long as it'd respect the Image
JS> Download Manager (it currently doesn't).

Except...  not even Microsoft use the IE engine any more. Edge browser
on  Win10  uses Chrome. I am not enthusiastic about keeping ties to an
API that the maker no longer uses.

The  TB  native rendering engine doesn't do a great job for me. A tiny
percentage of HTML mails show correct formatting at my end so I end up
reluctantly  relying  on the system HTML renderer (despite the lack of
obedience to the download manager).

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.7 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18363 

pgp99cCqmjdhP.pgp
Description: PGP signature

'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Jernej Simončič]

On Monday, June 1, 2020, 23:48:18, Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA wrote:

> I beg your pardon for keeping you waiting for so long. The deal on
> Ritlabs was a bit unexpected by me and I could not believe in it
> completely until the last Monday when I received a state certificate
> of   ownership.  Then, I started taking things over and there is a lot
> of them, so we're still in the transition process.

Welcome back :)

> - within next few weeks, we will try to fix with top PITAs (please
> feel free to name your favourite ones), make some minor additions and
> facelifting, then release a new v9.x.x update.

Here's mine:

- set Windows to High Contrast Black colour scheme, and fix all
  elements that retain light background (status bar and tabs in main
  window, some icons in status bar of message editor)

> - after that, we're going to remove the outdated built-in HTML
> renderer and IE-based system's one and use Chromium-based renderer
> for displaying and handling messages. We already have a PoC for
> internal testing and it is very promising - it's working lightning
> fast and renders everything without a problem. So, it's going to be
> next v9 update.

Oh great, another copy of Chromium running :)

I really wouldn't mind if IE stays, as long as it'd respect the Image
Download Manager (it currently doesn't).

-- 
< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< https://eternallybored.org/ >

No matter which way you ride, it's uphill and against the wind.
   -- First Law of Bicycling

TheBat! Version 9.1.18.6 (ALPHA) (64-bit), Windows 10.0.19041 



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[NetVicious]

lunes, 1 jun. 2020 at 23:48, it seems you wrote:

> - within next few weeks, we will try to fix with top PITAs (please
> feel free to name your favourite ones), make some minor additions and
> facelifting, then release a new v9.x.x update.  

Welcome back Stefan.

My  votes go to:

 - Allow translating the new customizer.
 
-  Finish  it.  I loved when I can edit all the menus of TB! and leave
only things what I use and hide other ones.

-  The  option  for "ignore changes" on Column Views changed a lot of 
versions ago. Before that change one Column View did not change until 
you modify columns and save it another time. Now if you change columns 
order  or  size in one folder, and go to another folder with the same 
Column  View it doesn't returns to the saved preferences. You need to 
change  to  a  folder  with a different column view and return to the 
previous folder to recover the saved config. This option it's not bad, 
but  IMHO  I  will  suggest  to add a new option like "ignore changes 
hybrid"  to  the current behaviour, and recover the old "hard" ignore 
changes option.


PD: The Bat! for Android sounds very good ;-)



-- 
  /\   /  Using  The Bat!  x64 9.1.18 Professional + OTFE 
with iKey1000
 /  \  / \  / Windows (10.0.19041 )
/\/ e t   \/ i c i o u s  Plugins: AntiSpamSniper 3.3.4.4
   
Spanish Translator of The Bat!



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Johannes Posel]

Dear Stefan,

Am Di., 9. Juni 2020 um 08:19 Uhr schrieb Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA <
tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com>:

> Hmmm. Just noticed the difference between sending messages to TBBETA from
> different accounts. In the Sent folders, they look the same, but messages
> sent from the ritlabs.com account are coming to the list with "via
> TBBETA" in the To line. Could someone please remind me what the nuance is?
>

RitLabs publishes, as many others, a DMARC setting for their domain
(v=DMARC1; p=reject; rua=mailto:dmarc-...@ritlabs.com; ruf=mailto:
dmarc-...@ritlabs.com). This mailing list thus cannot generate a mail from
you @ritlabs.com without this mail being rejected at all sites performing a
DMARC check (it all started with Yahoo's p=reject a long time ago). We then
updated Mailman and setit so that for domains with such settings, the From:
domain ist rewritten to the mailing list.

Best regards
Johannes

'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA]

Hello Stefan,

> Yes, I'm pretty sure - yesterday, I ran into a similar problem on
> my GMail accounts. Then, I changed the browser engine in the OAUTH
> window and everything worked just fine :)

Hmmm. Just noticed the difference between sending messages to TBBETA from 
different accounts. In the Sent folders, they look the same, but messages sent 
from the ritlabs.com account are coming to the list with "via TBBETA" in the To 
line. Could someone please remind me what the nuance is?

-- 
Best regards,
Stefan Tanurkov



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stefan Tanurkov]

Hello Daniel,

S>> This one must be resolved when we start using Chromium engine. Both
S>> rendering engines used in The Bat! now are outdated beyond repair, I'm 
afraid.

> Thanks, but are you sure that the rendering engine is involved here?

Yes, I'm pretty sure - yesterday, I ran into a similar problem on my GMail 
accounts. Then, I changed the browser engine in the OAUTH window and everything 
worked just fine :)

Actually, this drove me to the decision to switch to Chromium in this Beta 
circle thus fix most of browser-related problems by one shot.


-- 
Best regards,
 Stefan



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Daniel van Rooijen]

Hi Stefan,

>>  https://www.ritlabs.com/en/auth-forums/forum4/topic14455/

S> This one must be resolved when we start using Chromium engine. Both
S> rendering engines used in The Bat! now are outdated beyond repair, I'm 
afraid.

Thanks, but are you sure that the rendering engine is involved here?

The problem, in short, is this: When a person adds a Gmail account to
The Bat, and he chooses OAuth authentication, Internet Explorer will
show a screen in which the user must press an 'Allow' button. The
problem is that this Allow button is greyed-out and cannot be pressed.

Best,

-Daniel-



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Stefan,

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 08:47:57 +0300 GMT (08-Jun-20, 12:47 +0700 GMT),
Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA wrote:

> Hello Daniel,

>>  https://www.ritlabs.com/en/auth-forums/forum4/topic14455/

> This one must be resolved when we start using Chromium engine. Both
> rendering engines used in The Bat! now are outdated beyond repair, I'm afraid.

> Implementing Chromium engine is planned for the next Beta circle, i.e. a few 
> weeks from now.

This is good news! The current HTML implementation certainly leaves
room to desire.

Tip of the iceberg: https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1479

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18 (64-bit)
under Windows 10.0 Build 19041



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA]

Hello Daniel,

>  https://www.ritlabs.com/en/auth-forums/forum4/topic14455/

This one must be resolved when we start using Chromium engine. Both rendering 
engines used in The Bat! now are outdated beyond repair, I'm afraid. 

Implementing Chromium engine is planned for the next Beta circle, i.e. a few 
weeks from now.

-- 
Best regards,
Stefan Tanurkov



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Ira]

Title: Re: Kinda roadmap ;)


Something is hinky in this version, This message from Daniel indicated it was from me.  I've put the header as it showed up in Mailwasher at the bottom. You can see that the reply shows "Hello Ira" even though it's not from me. I made the "From:" line bold to make it easier to find. Maybe it's not The Bat, but it's weird no matter what.


Hello Ira,

Sunday, June 7, 2020, 4:34:20 PM, you wrote:






Hi Stefan, good to see you return to the bat's nest and I'm glad that
The Bat's development will get a new impulse.

I've seen quite a few fixes of inconveniences and annoyances requested,
but I think the pita that deserves priority is the one that, for quite
a few people, causes The Bat to not work at all with Gmail:

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/auth-forums/forum4/topic14455/

Best of luck, kind regards,

-Daniel-



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Kinda roadmap ;)

[Daniel van Rooijen]

Hi Stefan, good to see you return to the bat's nest and I'm glad that
The Bat's development will get a new impulse.

I've seen quite a few fixes of inconveniences and annoyances requested,
but I think the pita that deserves priority is the one that, for quite
a few people, causes The Bat to not work at all with Gmail:

 https://www.ritlabs.com/en/auth-forums/forum4/topic14455/

Best of luck, kind regards,

-Daniel-



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[MAU]

Hello Stefan,

> - within next few weeks, we will try to fix with top PITAs (please
> feel free to name your favourite ones)

I forgot to mention my favourite PITA:

-  Smartspace  reading  (Preferences/Message  List) does not work with
HTML messages.

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (Zarzalejo (Madrid) - Spain)
Using The Bat!  Version 9.1.18.7 (BETA) (64-bit) on Windows 10.0  18363




'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Luca via TBBETA]

MAU:

> Hello Luca,
> 
> > What about refurbishing the text editor? I've been coping with no undo/redo
> > function for... how long? maybe 15 years? I'm fed up with it.
> 
> There  is  certainly  an Undo action in the Edit menu (or Ctrl+Z), and
> you may try Ctrl+Y for Redo, it does work many times.

The keyword here being 'many times'. What kind of software feature is it, if
it works "many times"? As a matter of facts, Ctrl+Y works no times, while
Ctrl+Z - 'many times' - can't properly reconstruct the previous actions,
leaving you with garbled text. So that you have to completely rewrite
everything.

So, in the end, MicroEd not only lacks any Redo function, but doesn't even
have a reliable Undo. Is this acceptable? I say it's not, it's lacking a basic
indispensable feature. Any attempt to deny this is pointless.
-- 
Windows 10 Professional 64
The Bat! Voyager Professional Edition 9.1.10.1 (OTFE) 

Luca - e-mail: p.stevens at libero.it




'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stuart Cuddy]

Hello Stuart,
Sunday, June 7, 2020, 7:07:49 AM, you wrote:

>> There  is  certainly  an Undo action in the Edit menu (or Ctrl+Z), and
>> you may try Ctrl+Y for Redo, it does work many times.

> You can even add it as an icon in the Edit Mail Message window.

Oddly you can also add the Redo button, but as soon as you save the 
customization it disappears.

-- 
Best regards,
 Stuartmailto:skcu...@fastmail.fm



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stuart Cuddy]

Hello MAU,
Sunday, June 7, 2020, 3:59:47 AM, you wrote:

> There  is  certainly  an Undo action in the Edit menu (or Ctrl+Z), and
> you may try Ctrl+Y for Redo, it does work many times.

You can even add it as an icon in the Edit Mail Message window.

-- 
Best regards,
 Stuartmailto:skcu...@fastmail.fm



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[MAU]

Hello Luca,

> What about refurbishing the text editor? I've been coping with no undo/redo
> function for... how long? maybe 15 years? I'm fed up with it.

There  is  certainly  an Undo action in the Edit menu (or Ctrl+Z), and
you may try Ctrl+Y for Redo, it does work many times.


-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (Zarzalejo (Madrid) - Spain)
Using The Bat!  Version 9.1.18.6 (ALPHA) (64-bit) on Windows 10.0  18363




'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Gleason]

Luca,

> Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA:

>> - within next few weeks, we will try to fix with top PITAs (please
>> feel free to name your favourite ones), 

> What about refurbishing the text editor? I've been coping with no undo/redo
> function for... how long? maybe 15 years? I'm fed up with it.

The list is getting long.  I suspect there are reasons why some of
these have persisted so long.
1)  there is no easy solution within the framework of the way TB
works
2)  Rit has been unable to duplicate the problem

So let's not expect big results in a few weeks, and resist the
temptation to get fed up.  That doesn't help.

-- 

Gleason
TheBat! 9.1.18.3 (BETA) Pro (64bit, no OTFE) on Windows 10.0 18363 



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Luca via TBBETA]

Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA:

> - within next few weeks, we will try to fix with top PITAs (please
> feel free to name your favourite ones), 

What about refurbishing the text editor? I've been coping with no undo/redo
function for... how long? maybe 15 years? I'm fed up with it.
-- 
Windows 10 Professional 64
The Bat! Voyager Professional Edition 9.1.10.1 (OTFE) 

Luca - e-mail: p.stevens at libero.it




'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[MAU]

Hello Stefan,

> The past is water under the bridge

You are very right.


-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (Zarzalejo (Madrid) - Spain)
Using The Bat!  Version 9.1.18.6 (ALPHA) (64-bit) on Windows 10.0  18363




'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[MFPA]

Hi


On Monday 1 June 2020 at 10:48:18 PM, in
, Stefan Tanurkov wrote:-


> - within next few weeks, we will try to fix with top
> PITAs (please
> feel free to name your favourite ones)

1. 0001239: You receive an openPGP-encrypted and signed email. You
have a key to decrypt but not a key to verify the signature. TB! won't
show you the decrypted message.

2. 839: You have "Confirm unencrypted sending" selected under
account properties. TB! makes you confirm for every message sent from
that account, including the encrypted ones.

3. 724: TB! won't decrypt openPGP notifications from Facebook. When you
try, a dialog box appears requesting a filename to save an attachment.

4. 0001665: Can't highlight and copy just the version number from
Help/About pop-up. 

5. 0001435: Incorrect display of "From" column in message list for 
Yahoo Group messages [and messages from certain other mailing lists]

6. 0001242: TB! gives useless error message when OpenPGP key that
signed a message cannot be found.

7. 0001832: PGP: Internal implementation still visible in "Select 
OpenPGP implementation" dialogue This one should be a quick win.

8. [0002443 in 2004 and 0006182 in 2007, can't reference in current
bug tracker]: You are composing a message that you have set to be openPGP-signed
and/or encrypted on completion. You save your message as a draft. When
you return to editing it later, the requirements to sign or encrypt on
completion are no longer set.

Also, the bt.ritlabs.com logon page asks for only the username and
loads a new page before allowing me to enter the password. This is an
irritating waste of time.

-- 
Best regards

MFPA  

Was time invented by an Irishman named O'Clock?

Using The Bat! Version 9.1.18 (64-bit) on Windows 10.0 Build 18362  



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA]

Hello MAU,

> Welcome  back  Stef.  I just wish you and Max had not been so stubborn
> four years ago and you had not left Ritlabs then.

Thank you MAU! Let's look at the brigh side - I have learned a lot in
those four years and I'm sure it'll help us to boost TB! development
now. The past is water under the bridge and we need to concentrate
more on today and leave something for tomorrow :)


-- 
Best regards,
Stefan Tanurkov



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[MAU]

Hello Stefan,

> I was missing you badly since I left Ritlabs office back in 2016 and
> was dreaming to get back to The Bat! development all those years.

Welcome  back  Stef.  I just wish you and Max had not been so stubborn
four years ago and you had not left Ritlabs then.

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (Zarzalejo (Madrid) - Spain)
Using The Bat!  Version 9.1.18.6 (ALPHA) (64-bit) on Windows 10.0  18363




'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Joerg Schiermeier]

Ira wrote:

> when editing an email address in the To field The Bat assumes you're
> entering it from scratch and erases what your doing. For example. I'm
> replying to j...@somecompany.com and I jighlight "jane" and type
> "bob". The Bat (...)

Could you please tell us which number has your bug report in Ritlabs
bug tracker?
So we can check and comment your problem as beta testers.
Thanks.

-- 
Best regards,

Joerg Schiermeier
Bielefeld, Germany
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
productive: The Bat! pro v8.8.9.0 (32bit) - wine(at)Debian64
test environment (32bit + 64bit): The Bat! pro - latest beta
wine: v5.9 - Debian64/bullseye: v5.4.19-1 (2020-02-13)
emulated windows version (build number): v10.0 64bit (17134)




'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Marck,

On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 09:10:32 +0100 GMT (04-Jun-20, 15:10 +0700 GMT),
Marck Pearlstone wrote:


> On 04 June 2020 at 04:27 Thomas Fernandez wrote and made these points

> ... 
Thomas Then your editor behaves different from mine. I use MicroEd, and you
Thomas can see my Windows and TB version in my sig. How about yours?

>>> It's been broken since V9 was released. I've reported it before and
>>> it's been confirmed by others. It sadly does not matter to me if you
> ... 

TF>> I wasn't aware this has already been confirmed. Is there a BT entry
TF>> which may specify the editor, so I can check whether it happens here
TF>> too?
> ... 

> Just  to  clarify - Ira is talking about the recipient address line in
> the message header, which is completely separate from which editor you
> are  using and uses a standard windows edit field. The fact of whether
> you  use MicroEd or another to edit the message body is not related to
> the problem.

> This is a not actually a bug but it is a very annoying behaviour.

As mentioned, it does not happen over here. I highlighted "Bat" in the
TO line above and typed "Marck", and TB behaved as expected, like any
Windows application.

It is the same on my home PC from which I replied in the morning, and
my laptop, which I am using now.

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18 (64-bit)
under Windows 10.0 Build 18363



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Marck Pearlstone]

On 04 June 2020 at 04:27 Thomas Fernandez wrote and made these points

... 
Thomas>>> Then your editor behaves different from mine. I use MicroEd, and you
Thomas>>> can see my Windows and TB version in my sig. How about yours?

>> It's been broken since V9 was released. I've reported it before and
>> it's been confirmed by others. It sadly does not matter to me if you
... 

TF> I wasn't aware this has already been confirmed. Is there a BT entry
TF> which may specify the editor, so I can check whether it happens here
TF> too?
... 

Just  to  clarify - Ira is talking about the recipient address line in
the message header, which is completely separate from which editor you
are  using and uses a standard windows edit field. The fact of whether
you  use MicroEd or another to edit the message body is not related to
the problem.

This is a not actually a bug but it is a very annoying behaviour.

For  example: a message is being written to freder...@domain.com and I
want  to change that to fr...@domain.com. I highlight "erick" and type
an 'a'. 'erick' disappears, but then the auto-address look up kicks in
and  deletes  everything  after  the  'a'  I just typed so it can list
matching addresses.

IMHO  TB  should  be  able  to  perform an address lookup using cursor
position without having to truncate the remainder of the field content
so  that  I can accept "fr...@domain.com" without having to retype the
remainder (or hope the lookup finds it).

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.6 (ALPHA) on Windows 10.0.18362 

pgp30iDYDSbLO.pgp
Description: PGP signature

'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Ira,

On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 09:59:50 -0700 GMT (03-Jun-20, 23:59 +0700 GMT),
Ira wrote:

Thomas>> Then your editor behaves different from mine. I use MicroEd, and you
Thomas>> can see my Windows and TB version in my sig. How about yours?

> It's been broken since V9 was released. I've reported it before and
> it's been confirmed by others. It sadly does not matter to me if you
> can't duplicate it. Stefan asked for what our most pressing issues are,
> that's one of mine and so I told him. I'm using 9.1.18.3. Don't know
> anything about MicroEd. I just use The Bat.

I wasn't aware this has already been confirmed. Is there a BT entry
which may specify the editor, so I can check whether it happens here
too?

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit)
under Windows 10.0 Build 18362



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Ira]

Hello Thomas,

Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 6:22:15 AM, you wrote:


Thomas> Then your editor behaves different from mine. I use MicroEd, and you
Thomas> can see my Windows and TB version in my sig. How about yours?

Thomas> --


It's been broken since V9 was released. I've reported it before and
it's been confirmed by others. It sadly does not matter to me if you
can't duplicate it. Stefan asked for what our most pressing issues are,
that's one of mine and so I told him. I'm using 9.1.18.3. Don't know
anything about MicroEd. I just use The Bat.

-- Ira 



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Ira,

On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 00:23:44 -0700 GMT (03-Jun-20, 14:23 +0700 GMT),
Ira wrote:

> Hello Thomas,

> Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 8:14:14 PM, you wrote:

>>> when editing an email address in the To field The Bat assumes you're
>>> entering it from scratch and erases what your doing. For example. I'm
>>> replying to j...@somecompany.com and I jighlight "jane" and type
>>> "bob". The Bat replaces that with a list of all my email address that
>>> start with "bob", erasing "somecompany.com" which is the part I cared
>>> about.

Thomas>> This is standard Windows behaviour. When you have the whole email
Thomas>> address highlighted and type something, all of the highlighted text is
Thomas>> deleted. Instead, highlight only the part you want to change.

Thomas>> -


> No, it's not. I specifically I only highlighted "jane" or more
> correctly I said I jightlighted "jane", but I assume that error would
> be obvious.

Then your editor behaves different from mine. I use MicroEd, and you
can see my Windows and TB version in my sig. How about yours?

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit)
under Windows 10.0 Build 18362



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Ira]

Hello Thomas,

Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 8:14:14 PM, you wrote:

>> when editing an email address in the To field The Bat assumes you're
>> entering it from scratch and erases what your doing. For example. I'm
>> replying to j...@somecompany.com and I jighlight "jane" and type
>> "bob". The Bat replaces that with a list of all my email address that
>> start with "bob", erasing "somecompany.com" which is the part I cared
>> about.

Thomas> This is standard Windows behaviour. When you have the whole email
Thomas> address highlighted and type something, all of the highlighted text is
Thomas> deleted. Instead, highlight only the part you want to change.

Thomas> -


No, it's not. I specifically I only highlighted "jane" or more
correctly I said I jightlighted "jane", but I assume that error would
be obvious.

-- Ira 



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Ira,

On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 11:03:47 -0700 GMT (03-Jun-20, 1:03 +0700 GMT),
Ira wrote:

> when editing an email address in the To field The Bat assumes you're
> entering it from scratch and erases what your doing. For example. I'm
> replying to j...@somecompany.com and I jighlight "jane" and type
> "bob". The Bat replaces that with a list of all my email address that
> start with "bob", erasing "somecompany.com" which is the part I cared
> about.

This is standard Windows behaviour. When you have the whole email
address highlighted and type something, all of the highlighted text is
deleted. Instead, highlight only the part you want to change.

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit)
under Windows 10.0 Build 18362



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Ira]

Hello Stefan,

Monday, June 1, 2020, 2:48:18 PM, you wrote:

Stefan> - within next few weeks, we will try to fix with top PITAs (please
Stefan> feel free to name your favourite ones), make some minor additions and
Stefan> facelifting, then release a new v9.x.x update.


Glad to here there's hope going forward. Thanks so much. I'm one of
the short timers, only been using The Bat since 2013.

But, to answer your question:

when editing an email address in the To field The Bat assumes you're
entering it from scratch and erases what your doing. For example. I'm
replying to j...@somecompany.com and I jighlight "jane" and type
"bob". The Bat replaces that with a list of all my email address that
start with "bob", erasing "somecompany.com" which is the part I cared
about.

Incoming emails show attachments that don't actually exist or at least
shouldn't be shown as attchments. If someone embeds their business
card image as their signature, it's an embeded image, not an
attachment. And often for reasons I don't understand there's an
attachment called message.html that really shouldn't exist.

When replying, the quoted text is often put in some massively nested
table making it near impossible to edit or delete the noise.

I think and I might be in a minority, that reply of any sort should
always respect selected text. Now I need to use two different replies,
one if I want the whole message and a different one if I only want
selected text.

Anyway, thanks so much for asking. It's nice to hear development will
continue.

-- Ira 



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Richard Newman]

Hello Stefan,

Welcome back!

I'm sure we each have a thing or two that we would like to see working better. 
I'd add the address-book system to your list. Currently it is quite clunky and 
lacks the sophistication and reliability of the rest of TB. 

Looking forward to working with you again.

--
Best regards,
 Richardmailto:newmangroup@gmail.com
--
Using The Bat!  v9.1.18.6 (ALPHA)  on  Windows v10 18363 
'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Curt at Down in the Country]

Hello Stefan,

This  couldn't  have  come  at a better time. My little corner of this
dismal world has suddenly brightened up. A big "welcome back." 

 Curt
 Sent from my office desktop by The Bat!
 Using The Bat! Version 9.1.18.6 (ALPHA) (64-bit) Windows 7  (32)
 with HughesNet Gen5 Satellite Internet
 Duetomajor   policy   disagreements,   we   no   longer   use
 turnkeyinternet.net

Monday, June 1, 2020, 5:48:18 PM, you wrote:

> Then, I started taking things over and there is a lot
> of them, so we're still in the transition process.



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Andrew Savchenko]

Hello Stefan,

Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 7:18:18 AM, you wrote:

> - within next few weeks, we will try to fix with top PITAs (please
> feel free to name your favourite ones), make some minor additions and
> facelifting, then release a new v9.x.x update.

Seeing "RitLabs" and "roadmap" in one sentence makes me shed a tear.

Humble list of the top PITAs, as requested:

1. Lack of the responsive UI and tabs. Switching between full-screen and
   windows modes is clearly not a user-friendly experience, mostly due to
   the how different columns get scaled, etc. Have you tried Zimbra? Ticket
   ID #0001826
   
2. False advertisement as ASLR & DEP-capable application.
   Support ticket ID #86392 (not in Mantis)
   In a nutshell: https://i.imgur.com/rrLA9uG.png
   
> -- Unusable GPG starts here -->

3. TheBat! does not work work properly with the GnuPG keychain.
   Ticket ID #0001799
   
4. Signature is stripped from the encrypted AND signed message.
   Ticket ID #0001807 and #0001795
   
5. Message corruption if private key is not available for automatic
   decryption.
   Ticket ID #0001793
   
6. *Obligatory* "decrypted" being added to the subject-line of the
   encrypted message. Why not to make this optional is beyond me.
   Ticket ID #0001792
   
7. Messages signed using inline signature are not recognized as such in
   the messages list.
   Ticket ID #0001798

> -- Unusable GPG ends here -->
   
8. No "Plug-n-Play" way to sync contacts with the file-system. Currently 
   the least painful way for a single-user setup seems to be a VM with 
   CardDAV server of choice. Can we sync to the ~/Contacts for example?
   Ticket ID #0001856
   
9. Various "Access Violation" reports.
   Ticket ID #0001978

10. Impossible to define several "from" addresses under the one account. 
One can edit manually though, which is somewhat tedious to do every 
time.


11. No "regular" HTML-capable editor.  is hard-coded, etc.
Discussed at great length at the RitLabs forum and in this list.
   
12. Tangentially related: www.ritlabs.com is using outdated Bitrix with
forums functionality way below what vBulletin/phpBB/nodeBB/etc.
have to offer.

> - after that, we're going to remove the outdated built-in HTML
> renderer and IE-based system's one and use Chromium-based renderer
> for displaying and handling messages.

Sensible, offload security to Chromium. Good choice. Might be worth
looking at the patch-set applied by 
https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium

> - then, we are going to shift research focus to multi-platform
> development to make it possible to have same email setup on different
> platforms and switch between OSes and devices seamlessly

That escalated quickly. Do you think it's a little too ambitious for
now? Have you had a chance to touch-base with Embarcadero re. your
current scope of components vs multi-OS compatibility.

There is no shortage of _excellent_ e-mail clients on *nix.

> Of course, it's quite a general plan, but we tried many things that
> are coming to play already, so we are very sure we're able to fulfill
> it to a high degree. We're just praying that the Universe has reached
> its limit of black swans for this year at least :)

Maybe try leveraging community to some extend? Open development process 
where possible, active triage of bug-reports, etc.

Jira instance, GitHub/Lab, Phabricator... List goes on.

> Thank you very much for being with us, helping us to make The Bat!
> better and please be assured we are going to deliver a lot of stuff
> for you to test and enjoy! :)

Looking forward to it!


-- 
Regards,
A



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Gunivortus Goos]

Hello Stefan,

> Now, it's time to reveal our development plans. At least, what I think
> our current plan is.
> So, here it goes:

Looks like a plan, and
"I love it when a plan comes together"
   John "Hannibal" Smith
;-)

-- 
Kind regards,
Gunivortus Goos

The Bat! Professional 64 bit, version 9.1.18.3 (BETA)
Windows Pro 64 bit version 10, build nr. 18363
NordVPN vs. 6.30.8.0



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Stefan,

Thanks for the roadmap. Looking forward to things to come!

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit)
under Windows 10.0 Build 18362



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA]

Hello Marek,

> Hi Stef,
> same for me, I missed You too :-)

I'm already thinking of a way to add reactions in email.  Before that,
I'm doing it in writing - big smile and soulful hug :-)


-- 
Best regards,
Stefan Tanurkov



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stuart Pye]

Hello Stefan,

The Bat! is the best-kept secret in all of email-clientdom. All any of
the few reviewers that comment ever mention is how secure it is. I
think its best attribute is the sheer volume of mail that it can
handle; the Sorting Office has no equal.

Welcome back. Long live The Bat!



Best regards,

Stuart Pye


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



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Re: Kinda roadmap ;)

[Marek Mikus]

Hi Stef,
same for me, I missed You too :-)

-- 
S pozdravem,
 Marek Mikus
 mailto:marek.mi...@gmail.com



'Using TBBETA' information:
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Kinda roadmap ;)

[Stefan Tanurkov via TBBETA]

Dear TBBETAers,

I beg your pardon for keeping you waiting for so long. The deal on
Ritlabs was a bit unexpected by me and I could not believe in it
completely until the last Monday when I received a state certificate
of   ownership.  Then, I started taking things over and there is a lot
of them, so we're still in the transition process.

I was missing you badly since I left Ritlabs office back in 2016 and
was dreaming to get back to The Bat! development all those years. So,
the last few weeks were full of emotions and the main one was
happiness. I am very happy to lay my hands on The Bat! code and start
again making you people satisfied with the product I started about 23
years ago and I feel nothing but deep gratitude towards all of you for
staying with us all these years and really hope our team is going to
keep you happy in future.

Now, it's time to reveal our development plans. At least, what I think
our current plan is. Sure enough, it may change slightly on the way
it's being implemented, but I think the essence of it should not change
much.

So, here it goes:

- within next few weeks, we will try to fix with top PITAs (please
feel free to name your favourite ones), make some minor additions and
facelifting, then release a new v9.x.x update.

- after that, we're going to remove the outdated built-in HTML
renderer and IE-based system's one and use Chromium-based renderer
for displaying and handling messages. We already have a PoC for
internal testing and it is very promising - it's working lightning
fast and renders everything without a problem. So, it's going to be
next v9 update.

- then, we are going to shift research focus to multi-platform
development to make it possible to have same email setup on different
platforms and switch between OSes and devices seamlessly

Of course, it's quite a general plan, but we tried many things that
are coming to play already, so we are very sure we're able to fulfill
it to a high degree. We're just praying that the Universe has reached
its limit of black swans for this year at least :)

Thank you very much for being with us, helping us to make The Bat!
better and please be assured we are going to deliver a lot of stuff
for you to test and enjoy! :)


-- 
Best regards,
   Stefan Tanurkov
   CEO @ RITLABS  SRL

  http://www.ritlabs.com



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