Re: Empty Mail
Hi On Tuesday, 19 October, 2004, at 12:12:34 AM, Julian Beach (Lists) wrote: I have not seen TB empty a mail exactly, but I have problems with TB! (or something along the way that affects only TB!) changing the Part boundaries of messages so the file names do not appear correctly. snip The problem is that the name should actually be Draft Cheshire Supporting People Eligibility Criteria v2.8.doc, but it gets chopped at the first space in the file name snip I created a bug report at the time this started affecting me: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=2043 I reported that too,as https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=3396. I have added a note to both reports indicating that they appear to be reporting the same behaviour -- Best regards, MFPAmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v2.12.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
ON Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 6:15:57 PM, you wrote: MDP Not only is it your machine, but it is a *piece of software* on your MDP machine listening on TCP/IP port 110 (the POP3 port) to your requests MDP for your email from The Bat! That software then digs it out of the MDP folder and sends it to you. It is software. It is software that MDP opens an email message from the folder and sends it to TB. MDP *THAT* is the software that is eating your messages. Sorry, but you MDP don't seem to be understanding this basic and fundamental point I (and MDP others) are making here. Marck, I fully agree with your interpretation but I would like to remark that the email used as an example is clearly spam and there for most likely is being mangled by some antispam software. It could even be add blocking software from Kerio. It has this for website (aka HTML processor). I wrong setup of the software could possibly cause this. -- Best regards, Gerard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ey say golf is like life, but don't believe them. golf is more complicated than that. --Gardner Dickinson Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Marck, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 10:02:31 PM, you wrote: snipped The stripped message is what the folder (it is *not* a folder) gives to The Bat!. The folder does not store the message stripped. It strips it *while passing it to The Bat!*. The Bat! does not strip it. Please stop saying it is The Bat! and you might start moving towards a solution. Downloading direct from the ISP server instead of this silly folder (it is NOT a folder - it is just a poorly written local email server) should prove that once and for all. more snipping M Your logic to me at least makes no sense. It makes a great deal of sense. Please think a bit deeper and try to understand what I (and many others) have been trying to explain to you about how this works. Your calling it a folder and looking in the temporary message store is doing nothing but confusing you. Even if you don't know what we're talking about, accept that we actually do. It gives me no pleasure to report that requesting the emails direct has made no difference at all to the appearance of some emails, they are still being stripped. I will not bore you or anyone else withis any further as it is obviously something specific to my set up or ISP so I will live with it for a while and C. The only other option to try is to have my mails routed through a completely different MailServer to see if that makes a difference which I will try. I will only report if I find an answer to the mystery so you can put your kill file filters away :-) -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Morpheus, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 9:43:56 PM, you wrote: Now, I don't know much about satellite technique, but I assume it is some sort of proxy. Who configured the machine for you when you got that satellite connection? There was no config the CD software did it all for me illieterate as I am. OK, so you actually did install something to get that thing working, aye? -- Best regards, Alexandermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
On Wednesday, October 20, 2004 at 1:21:44 AM [GMT -0500], Morpheus wrote: It gives me no pleasure to report that requesting the emails direct has made no difference at all to the appearance of some emails, they are still being stripped. Have you tried another e-mail client to see what happens? -- -= Allie =- . Kids-They're not sleeping, they're recharging! __ The Bat! v3.0.1.33 - IMAP mail Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Peter, On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:35:49 +0200 GMT (19/10/2004, 21:35 +0700 GMT), Peter Fjelsten wrote: PF This is the closest I have found for an empty mail. PF | X-SmartMax-AuthUser: PF | Received: zbp[2 PF It looks very strange. I would think that the spammer doesn't have a clue how to use his spamming software, so I wouldn't be surprised if the mail was indeed without a body. -- Cheers, Thomas. Mit einem Kostuemball kann man keine Tore schiessen. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.1.33 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Morpheus, On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:40:49 +0100 GMT (20/10/2004, 02:40 +0700 GMT), Morpheus wrote: M Using my language I can see inside 'the folder' the raw messages so if M anything was going to 'mangle' it as you poetically put it, would it M not have done so already? Yet when I look at the raw message in my M TEXTEDITOR I see the whole and not the stripped message TheBat! M offers up to me. How do you open the messages in the text editor? Over here, the mails are downloaded into the .tbb files, and these show garbage in the text editor. So what file are you opening? From there, we'll look which software accesses the message before it goes to TB. Let's go step-by-step. With regards to another message of yours, yes, it is obviously unique to your system, but you got me hooked and I want to see whether we can fix it. Even though I understand that we are only talking about spam messages, you have not lost real messages, have you? M When I open TheBat! and ask to see my messages it pulls them from M the folder and does its thing. If the satellite software was going M to strip the emails why would it not have done so already. No apparently it is not your satellite software, you do have the full message on your computer. But where, I wonder. The message body gets lost on the way from that file which you can open in the text editor to the import into TB. -- Cheers, Thomas. Erst starb mein Mann, dann alle 28 Kakteen. * Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.1.33 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Thomas, @20-Oct-2004, 20:20 +0700 (20-Oct 14:20 UK time) Thomas Fernandez [TF] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Morpheus: M Using my language I can see inside 'the folder' the raw messages so if M anything was going to 'mangle' it as you poetically put it, would it M not have done so already? Yet when I look at the raw message in my M TEXTEDITOR I see the whole and not the stripped message TheBat! M offers up to me. TF How do you open the messages in the text editor? The Satellite software is downloading the messages into a holding folder external to TB and driver by its own virtual POP handler. The holding folder is a simple disk folder that contains .msg files. These files can be viewed with a text editor. TF Over here, the mails are downloaded into the .tbb files, and these TF show garbage in the text editor. So what file are you opening? The satellite offline message folder contents external to TB - prior to receiving the messages in TB. ... snip TF No apparently it is not your satellite software, Actually - it seem that there is possibly something amiss with the message body format before it even arrives in the offline folder. Although the whole message can be seen in a text editor, once it is transmitted by POP protocol to TB, the body has been removed. Morpheus has said this happens with or without the middle-man offline folder's intervention. Telling TB to grab the messages from the Satellite ISP's POP server directly by changing the account settings in TB still resulted in truncated messages. Unless, of course, Morpheus simply opened the connection and downloaded, expecting the messages to come direct from the ISP without changing any settings... in which case, we still don't know. TF you do have the full message on your computer. But where, I TF wonder. The message body gets lost on the way from that file which TF you can open in the text editor to the import into TB. Yes - and POP3 is the import method. -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgpVN6DA5XrKl.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Marck, On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:34:09 +0100 GMT (20/10/2004, 20:34 +0700 GMT), Marck D Pearlstone wrote: TF How do you open the messages in the text editor? MDP The Satellite software is downloading the messages into a holding MDP folder external to TB and driver by its own virtual POP handler. The MDP holding folder is a simple disk folder that contains .msg files. These MDP files can be viewed with a text editor. I didn't know that. So that's what satellite download software does. TF Over here, the mails are downloaded into the .tbb files, and these TF show garbage in the text editor. So what file are you opening? MDP The satellite offline message folder contents external to TB - prior to MDP receiving the messages in TB. Yes, but does TB receive directly from there? Does the satellite software place it on localhost, accessible at port 110? Does TB connect to localhost:110? Like you, I think there is something in between, and since you have answered my first question, we need to identify what is in between. Morpheus said that he is not an IT expert, so my suggestion for the next step is that we now look at port numbers. TF No apparently it is not your satellite software, MDP Actually - it seem that there is possibly something amiss with the MDP message body format before it even arrives in the offline folder. MDP Although the whole message can be seen in a text editor, once it is MDP transmitted by POP protocol to TB, the body has been removed. I'm not with you yet. If he can see the body in the .msg file, this should be imported into TB and he can see it when hitting F9. This is not the case. MDP Morpheus has said this happens with or without the middle-man MDP offline folder's intervention. Telling TB to grab the messages MDP from the Satellite ISP's POP server directly by changing the MDP account settings in TB still resulted in truncated messages. There can still be an anti-virus/spam software in between. Some of them are transparent, so he would still connect to port 110, but let's wait for his reply before going down that road. -- Cheers, Thomas. A duck walks into a drugstore and ask the clerk for Chapstick. The clerk puts the Chapstick on the counter and says, That will be $2. The duck replies, Just put it on my bill. (true story) Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.1.33 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Allie, Wednesday, October 20, 2004, 12:03:42 PM, you wrote: On Wednesday, October 20, 2004 at 1:21:44 AM [GMT -0500], Morpheus wrote: It gives me no pleasure to report that requesting the emails direct has made no difference at all to the appearance of some emails, they are still being stripped. Have you tried another e-mail client to see what happens? I recently transferred my mail from Poco Mail to TheBat! I had not experienced this problem with mail before this exchange... however there is more to this than this simple statement..if I may explain- When I heard about the wondrous things TheBat! could do with handling spam I decided to lift all my redirection email addresses which were currently going into an account at mailinator.com and have them once again bombard me with spam so that I could try and teach BayesIT how to recognise an avalanche of spam. 95% of my spam was going unseen but there were odd iems that kept getting through the net and as I like to tinker I thought I could get TheBat! to spamate them once and for all. So to tell the truth Poco Mail has never received any spam mail so I cannot say for certain that it did not have this problem before the installation. I have had my domain name for several years and as such I am have been found by up to 50 spammers a day so TheBat! gets a good workout :-) I have only lost one email that I did not want to lose all the rest that have been stripped have been crap mail. Bonafide mail does not seem to be affected at all. In fact I opened a hotmail account and sent myself a message to see if it was stripped and it was not so I suspect it is those emails that contain only a HREF to an external image and no content. And this leads me to suspect BayesIT is the guilty party with some internal flag to render this type of email harmless. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Marck, Wednesday, October 20, 2004, 2:34:09 PM, you wrote: Dear Thomas, @20-Oct-2004, 20:20 +0700 (20-Oct 14:20 UK time) Thomas Fernandez [TF] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Morpheus: M Using my language I can see inside 'the folder' the raw messages so if M anything was going to 'mangle' it as you poetically put it, would it M not have done so already? Yet when I look at the raw message in my M TEXTEDITOR I see the whole and not the stripped message TheBat! M offers up to me. TF How do you open the messages in the text editor? The Satellite software is downloading the messages into a holding folder external to TB and driver by its own virtual POP handler. The holding folder is a simple disk folder that contains .msg files. These files can be viewed with a text editor. TF Over here, the mails are downloaded into the .tbb files, and these TF show garbage in the text editor. So what file are you opening? The satellite offline message folder contents external to TB - prior to receiving the messages in TB. .. snip TF No apparently it is not your satellite software, Actually - it seem that there is possibly something amiss with the message body format before it even arrives in the offline folder. Although the whole message can be seen in a text editor, once it is transmitted by POP protocol to TB, the body has been removed. Morpheus has said this happens with or without the middle-man offline folder's intervention. Telling TB to grab the messages from the Satellite ISP's POP server directly by changing the account settings in TB still resulted in truncated messages. Unless, of course, Morpheus simply opened the connection and downloaded, expecting the messages to come direct from the ISP without changing any settings... in which case, we still don't know. TF you do have the full message on your computer. But where, I TF wonder. The message body gets lost on the way from that file which TF you can open in the text editor to the import into TB. Yes - and POP3 is the import method. No I am stupid but not that stupid :-) I changed my settings from pop3server 127.0.0.1 to mail.skydsl.de and this requires an open internet connection to pull (did I say that right) the mail to my PC. I said in an earlier email that this stripping appears to be very selective and far more intelligent than I. It only appears to strip spam but I do recall the emails I viewed intact before DID contain text and not just an external reference to an image or site elsewhere. Something on my computer seems to be leaping in at the transfer stage from localhost folder to TheBat! to kill the content. Could it be SPYBOT? It is not designed to do this as far as I know but apart from that and AVG and Kerio is the only stuff I have running except of course my satellite software which always running. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
PF On 19-10-2004 00:44, you [MDP] wrote in PF mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: MDP HEY!! Anyone else reading this thread who's seen TB empty a mail on MDP delivery? I've not seen that happen. Nobody's leaping in to say MDP yeah, TB always does that. is it a HTML email ? various betas had trouble displaying html email and would just show a blank page. What do you see when you hit F9, do you see the source of the message ? cheers, davidp. -- David Pascoe, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Western Australia Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Peter, @19-Oct-2004, 07:57 +0200 (19-Oct 06:57 UK time) Peter Fjelsten [PF] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: MDP HEY!! Anyone else reading this thread who's seen TB empty a mail on MDP delivery? I've not seen that happen. Nobody's leaping in to say MDP yeah, TB always does that. PF I have had this a couple of times - empty preview pane and empty header PF pane. I'll see if I can find an example when I come home from work. No - that's not the one. That's a failure to display. That says nothing of the content. This is a report of TB emptying the content while retaining all headers. You need to look at the message source to determine the truth of the matter. -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgphNuyJjllp5.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hi Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 10:37:34 AM, you wrote: PF On 19-10-2004 00:44, you [MDP] wrote in PF mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: MDP HEY!! Anyone else reading this thread who's seen TB empty a mail on MDP delivery? I've not seen that happen. Nobody's leaping in to say MDP yeah, TB always does that. is it a HTML email ? various betas had trouble displaying html email and would just show a blank page. What do you see when you hit F9, do you see the source of the message ? cheers, davidp. -- David Pascoe, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Western Australia Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html I see the headers only with the rest of the email stripped out by TheBat! and not by any third party spam filters at my ISP. It is ridiculous I am now scanning every email using a text editor before TheBat gets hold of it in case it is a reply from my friend cos I told him I had lost his email. What a laborious task and if I do not find an answer then TheBat! is not for me. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Tbudl, @19-Oct-2004, 12:35 TBUDL [T] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to David: T I see the headers only with the rest of the email stripped out by T TheBat! This is simply not true. TB is not stripping your mail. It doesn't. It won't. Nobody has come forward yet to support your reported experience. If TB were capable of doing this we would all have seen it happen at some time or another. Nobody here has. Whatever is sat on your 127.0.0.1 delivery system is doing it. You didn't tell us what you have on that. TB may fail to /display/ content, but a view of the message source always shows an intact receipt. Whatever TB is sent, it stores. Anything else is the influence of something external to TB. And please use a better alias than TBUDL. And please trim your replies to context - your last included a list footer! -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgplAxDhRbpco.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hi Marck Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 12:51:08 PM, you wrote: Dear Tbudl, @19-Oct-2004, 12:35 TBUDL [T] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to David: T I see the headers only with the rest of the email stripped out by T TheBat! This is simply not true. TB is not stripping your mail. It doesn't. It won't. Nobody has come forward yet to support your reported experience. If TB were capable of doing this we would all have seen it happen at some time or another. Nobody here has. Whatever is sat on your 127.0.0.1 delivery system is doing it. You didn't tell us what you have on that. TB may fail to /display/ content, but a view of the message source always shows an intact receipt. Whatever TB is sent, it stores. Anything else is the influence of something external to TB. And please use a better alias than TBUDL. And please trim your replies to context - your last included a list footer! Seems like I have touched a nerve? First of all there has already been support from others commenting on a similar thing happening to them. My delivery system is a folder which receives my email from a satellite connection and there it sits until I use an email client to fetch it from the folder. When I view the raw message for the ones that HAVE been stripped they are intact until TheBat! loads them so by simple means of elimination it can only be either TheBat! and my settings or BayesIT. I have changed my alias to something more appropriate and I agree it is confusing but never realised until I started to see my messages in the list. Hopefully I have trimmed my list footers as well :-) My thoughts now are that something has become corrupted and before I scrap TheBat! perhaps I should uninstall and then reinstall to see if I can eliminate the problem that way. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Morpheus, @19-Oct-2004, 13:07 Morpheus [M] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: T I see the headers only with the rest of the email stripped out by T TheBat! TB may fail to /display/ content, but a view of the message source always shows an intact receipt. Whatever TB is sent, it stores. Anything else is the influence of something external to TB. ... snip M Seems like I have touched a nerve? Not at all. Just got me and other pretty much confused. M First of all there has already been support from others commenting M on a similar thing happening to them. I haven't seen any and I've been following this thread from the start. One user (Peter) stated that entire messages *and* headers got blanked but he was replied to stating that he was probably seeing a display bug. Nobody else has had a single word of support for your claim. M My delivery system is a folder which receives my email from a M satellite connection and there it sits until I use an email client M to fetch it from the folder. Excuse me - this is a delivery mechanism. No folder can be fetched from on 127.0.0.1 without it responding to a POP3 or IMAP request. That puts you at the mercy of its protocol implementation. M When I view the raw message for the ones that HAVE been stripped M they are intact until TheBat! loads them so by simple means of M elimination it can only be either TheBat! and my settings or M BayesIT. And yet you fail to eliminate the delivery protocol? Even when there is no support for your position that TB will censor mails on receipt? Very strange. M I have changed my alias to something more appropriate and I agree M it is confusing but never realised until I started to see my M messages in the list. Thank you for doing that - much appreciated! :-D M Hopefully I have trimmed my list footers as well :-) Yes. M My thoughts now are that something has become corrupted ... this is a possibility. M and before I scrap TheBat! perhaps I should uninstall and then M reinstall to see if I can eliminate the problem that way. Yes, but you should also verify that the protocol implementation on whatever it is sitting on your mysterious folder is bona-fide. -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgpuv8JScZjxl.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Marck, On 19-10-2004 14:41, you [MDP] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: MDP I haven't seen any and I've been following this thread from the MDP start. One user (Peter) stated that entire messages *and* headers MDP got blanked but he was replied to stating that he was probably MDP seeing a display bug. If I am the Peter you are talking about, I will be home in half an hour and I will see if I can find a message with displays the (other another) problem. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.0.2.1 /thebat version os Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1/os Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Empty Mail Update
Hello I have uninstalled everything and removed all traces (that I can find) from the Register. Reinstalled everything and fed BayesIT with 500 good and 500 bad emails. I will let you know (if you are interested) if I find any further email stripping. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Morpheus, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 2:07:26 PM, you wrote: My delivery system is a folder which receives my email from a satellite connection and there it sits until I use an email client to fetch it from the folder Sorry to jump in here but I can't bear reading this any longer. :-) The IP address 127.0.0.1 is also called *localhost* - it (usually) is your OWN machine! Ping 127.0.0.1 will have your own computer answer your ping request. You *must* have something sitting in between TheBat! and your POP3/IMAP server, there's no way around that. Are you using a virus scanner that scans your email, or an additional local spam filter, or message mangling program (like xrayapp), or whatever. In essence, when you look up mails it may be something like TheBat! - virus scanner - POP3 server Or whatever... -- Best regards, Alexandermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Alexander, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 4:10:33 PM, you wrote: Hello Morpheus, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 2:07:26 PM, you wrote: My delivery system is a folder which receives my email from a satellite connection and there it sits until I use an email client to fetch it from the folder Sorry to jump in here but I can't bear reading this any longer. :-) The IP address 127.0.0.1 is also called *localhost* - it (usually) is your OWN machine! Ping 127.0.0.1 will have your own computer answer your ping request. You *must* have something sitting in between TheBat! and your POP3/IMAP server, there's no way around that. Are you using a virus scanner that scans your email, or an additional local spam filter, or message mangling program (like xrayapp), or whatever. In essence, when you look up mails it may be something like TheBat! - virus scanner - POP3 server Or whatever... Very pleased to have you jump in. Thank you for converting my message to something Techies can understand rather than the IT illiterate idiots like me ;-) The only application that divides me from incoming mail is Kerio Personal Firewall and I use AVG Anti Virus which is not capable of recognising my incoming mail unless I try to open it and it contains a virus it will then intercept. I collect my mail by using 127.0.0.1 which you quite rightly point out is my own machine. My satellite connection downloads mail without my PC being directly connected to the internet via my ISP and dumps the mail into a personal folder and using 127.0.0.1 successfully locates this folder and gives me email. There are NO additional local spam filters nor message mangling programs although I have never heard of one of these and would surely know if I had downloaded and installed one presumably. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Morpheus, @19-Oct-2004, 16:23 Morpheus [M] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Alexander: ... snip Sorry to jump in here but I can't bear reading this any longer. :-) The IP address 127.0.0.1 is also called *localhost* - it (usually) is your OWN machine! Ping 127.0.0.1 will have your own computer answer your ping request. Correct. You *must* have something sitting in between TheBat! and your POP3/IMAP server, there's no way around that. 100% true. M Very pleased to have you jump in. Thank you for converting my M message to something Techies can understand rather than the IT M illiterate idiots like me ;-) Well, you are clearly missing something that I have been trying to say and has now been said by someone else. M The only application that divides me from incoming mail is Kerio M Personal Firewall and I use AVG Anti Virus which is not capable of M recognising my incoming mail unless I try to open it and it contains a M virus it will then intercept. ... but wait ... there's more that *you* (clearly and sadly) don't realize about your own computer system ... M I collect my mail by using 127.0.0.1 which you quite rightly point M out is my own machine. Not only is it your machine, but it is a *piece of software* on your machine listening on TCP/IP port 110 (the POP3 port) to your requests for your email from The Bat! That software then digs it out of the folder and sends it to you. It is software. It is software that opens an email message from the folder and sends it to TB. *THAT* is the software that is eating your messages. Sorry, but you don't seem to be understanding this basic and fundamental point I (and others) are making here. M My satellite connection downloads mail without my PC being directly M connected to the internet via my ISP downloads? By magic? Not really. It uses the POP3 protocol on an open TCP/IP connection. And it's not the satellite connection that does it. It is software that uses the open connection to do it. Software provided by your ISP. Faulty software, IMHO. M and dumps the mail into a personal folder and using 127.0.0.1 M successfully locates this folder and gives me email. That is not correct. It seems to me that you don't understand the process quite enough. 127.0.0.1 is the IP address of a *Mail Server* - a mail server program running on your computer itself. Your satellite software includes a local mail server and tries to blind you with non-science by calling it a folder. It's not a folder. It's a local mail server - a piece of software (whether or not you previously knew that). M There are NO additional local spam filters nor message mangling M programs But there is. It's the software from your satellite ISP. The one that calls itself a mail folder. I believe that is what is mangling your mail on delivery. I have no idea why it should do that. Contact your ISP and check that you have the latest version and start ranting to them about POP3 compatibility, because IMHO you are calling the wrong kettle black. M although I have never heard of one of these and would surely know M if I had downloaded and installed one presumably. Well, it seems to me that you actually don't know ... and without realising it ... you did! -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgpJNYLOmxXzt.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail Update
Hello Group On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 4:05:20 PM, wrote: Hello I have uninstalled everything and removed all traces (that I can find) from the Register. Reinstalled everything and fed BayesIT with 500 good and 500 bad emails. I will let you know (if you are interested) if I find any further email stripping. Let us know if you want any of us to send you test emails of any type. -- Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK :Jeff_Gaines: Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Morpheus everyone else 19-Okt-2004 17:23, you wrote: Very pleased to have you jump in. Thank you for converting my message to something Techies can understand rather than the IT illiterate idiots like me ;-) I just felt that you and Marck could not connect somehow... :) Sorry, only to germans: Hölle, was heisst aneinander vorbeireden auf Englisch? (it is only a question on how to express a certain phrase so any non-germans do not miss a thing, no hidden jokes, no nothing, promised!) I collect my mail by using 127.0.0.1 which you quite rightly point out is my own machine. My satellite connection downloads mail without my PC being directly connected to the internet via my ISP and dumps the mail into a personal folder and using 127.0.0.1 successfully locates this folder and gives me email. So, as Marck already said, some sorta software *must* be installed on your PC. It listens on port 110 for any POP3 requests and then feeds the mail that it temporarily stored, whichever way, to the program that made the POP3 request - that program happens to be TheBat!, and it gets something that is already on your system, and possibly got mangled somehow on its way there, either on the satellite route, or by the software that buffers the content locally on your end. Now, I don't know much about satellite technique, but I assume it is some sort of proxy. Who configured the machine for you when you got that satellite connection? -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 without smilies :-P Deliplayer2 is playing: Higher Access by Cosmosis from the 1998 album 'Synergy' Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Alexander, On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:37:46 +0200 GMT (19/10/2004, 23:37 +0700 GMT), Alexander S. Kunz wrote: ASK Sorry, only to germans: Hölle, was heisst aneinander vorbeireden auf ASK Englisch? Talking about different things. I side with Marck. I receive messages in the office that fit the description posted by Morpheus, and they were cleaned by NAV. (Sorry Marck, that's what the IT people decided to use.) Morpheus, what happens if you make TB not connect to localhost but directly to the ISP's POP server? -- Cheers, Thomas. Die Sztahlfabriken von Birmingham verbrauchen so viel Stahl, das aller Stahl, welcher fabricirt wird, dazu nicht ausreichen wuerde. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.1.33 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Thomas Fernandez everyone else 19-Okt-2004 18:59, you wrote: Morpheus, what happens if you make TB not connect to localhost but directly to the ISP's POP server? I'd that this cannot work on a satellite connection: the upstream to his ISP goes on a regular phoneline, the downstream over his satellite connection. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 without smilies :-P Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. -- Albert Einstein Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Marck, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 5:15:57 PM, you wrote: Dear Morpheus, @19-Oct-2004, 16:23 Morpheus [M] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Alexander: .. snip Sorry to jump in here but I can't bear reading this any longer. :-) The IP address 127.0.0.1 is also called *localhost* - it (usually) is your OWN machine! Ping 127.0.0.1 will have your own computer answer your ping request. Correct. You *must* have something sitting in between TheBat! and your POP3/IMAP server, there's no way around that. 100% true. M Very pleased to have you jump in. Thank you for converting my M message to something Techies can understand rather than the IT M illiterate idiots like me ;-) Well, you are clearly missing something that I have been trying to say and has now been said by someone else. M The only application that divides me from incoming mail is Kerio M Personal Firewall and I use AVG Anti Virus which is not capable of M recognising my incoming mail unless I try to open it and it contains a M virus it will then intercept. .. but wait ... there's more that *you* (clearly and sadly) don't realize about your own computer system ... M I collect my mail by using 127.0.0.1 which you quite rightly point M out is my own machine. Not only is it your machine, but it is a *piece of software* on your machine listening on TCP/IP port 110 (the POP3 port) to your requests for your email from The Bat! That software then digs it out of the folder and sends it to you. It is software. It is software that opens an email message from the folder and sends it to TB. *THAT* is the software that is eating your messages. Sorry, but you don't seem to be understanding this basic and fundamental point I (and others) are making here. M My satellite connection downloads mail without my PC being directly M connected to the internet via my ISP downloads? By magic? Not really. It uses the POP3 protocol on an open TCP/IP connection. And it's not the satellite connection that does it. It is software that uses the open connection to do it. Software provided by your ISP. Faulty software, IMHO. M and dumps the mail into a personal folder and using 127.0.0.1 M successfully locates this folder and gives me email. That is not correct. It seems to me that you don't understand the process quite enough. 127.0.0.1 is the IP address of a *Mail Server* - a mail server program running on your computer itself. Your satellite software includes a local mail server and tries to blind you with non-science by calling it a folder. It's not a folder. It's a local mail server - a piece of software (whether or not you previously knew that). M There are NO additional local spam filters nor message mangling M programs But there is. It's the software from your satellite ISP. The one that calls itself a mail folder. I believe that is what is mangling your mail on delivery. I have no idea why it should do that. Contact your ISP and check that you have the latest version and start ranting to them about POP3 compatibility, because IMHO you are calling the wrong kettle black. M although I have never heard of one of these and would surely know M if I had downloaded and installed one presumably. Well, it seems to me that you actually don't know ... and without realising it ... you did! I have decided not to snip as I dont know what bits would be best to snip :-) You really are very abrupt Marck. We or should I say I am not as literate in these matters as you so obviously are but that does not mean I am a dunce, nor does it prevent me from wishing to learn more so chill dude. Using my language I can see inside 'the folder' the raw messages so if anything was going to 'mangle' it as you poetically put it, would it not have done so already? Yet when I look at the raw message in my TEXTEDITOR I see the whole and not the stripped message TheBat! offers up to me. When I open TheBat! and ask to see my messages it pulls them from the folder and does its thing. If the satellite software was going to strip the emails why would it not have done so already. Your logic to me at least makes no sense. After my uninstall and reinstall the problem has not disappeared but I may well do so you will be pleased to know. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail Update
Hello Jeff, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 5:18:35 PM, you wrote: Hello Group On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 4:05:20 PM, wrote: Hello I have uninstalled everything and removed all traces (that I can find) from the Register. Reinstalled everything and fed BayesIT with 500 good and 500 bad emails. I will let you know (if you are interested) if I find any further email stripping. Let us know if you want any of us to send you test emails of any type. Thanks for the offer Jeff but the problem still persists and 99.9% of the emails it does this with are SPAM sp perhaps I should just let it get on with it and thank my lucky stars I dont have to look at the crap they are sending to me. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Alexander, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 5:37:46 PM, you wrote: Hello Morpheus everyone else 19-Okt-2004 17:23, you wrote: Very pleased to have you jump in. Thank you for converting my message to something Techies can understand rather than the IT illiterate idiots like me ;-) I just felt that you and Marck could not connect somehow... :) Sorry, only to germans: Hölle, was heisst aneinander vorbeireden auf Englisch? (it is only a question on how to express a certain phrase so any non-germans do not miss a thing, no hidden jokes, no nothing, promised!) I collect my mail by using 127.0.0.1 which you quite rightly point out is my own machine. My satellite connection downloads mail without my PC being directly connected to the internet via my ISP and dumps the mail into a personal folder and using 127.0.0.1 successfully locates this folder and gives me email. So, as Marck already said, some sorta software *must* be installed on your PC. It listens on port 110 for any POP3 requests and then feeds the mail that it temporarily stored, whichever way, to the program that made the POP3 request - that program happens to be TheBat!, and it gets something that is already on your system, and possibly got mangled somehow on its way there, either on the satellite route, or by the software that buffers the content locally on your end. Now, I don't know much about satellite technique, but I assume it is some sort of proxy. Who configured the machine for you when you got that satellite connection? There was no config the CD software did it all for me illieterate as I am. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Thomas, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 5:59:05 PM, you wrote: Hello Alexander, On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:37:46 +0200 GMT (19/10/2004, 23:37 +0700 GMT), Alexander S. Kunz wrote: ASK Sorry, only to germans: Hölle, was heisst aneinander vorbeireden auf ASK Englisch? Talking about different things. I side with Marck. I receive messages in the office that fit the description posted by Morpheus, and they were cleaned by NAV. (Sorry Marck, that's what the IT people decided to use.) Morpheus, what happens if you make TB not connect to localhost but directly to the ISP's POP server? Aha thanks Thomas a man with a sensible suggestion and yes I can connect directly with the satellite ISP for my mail it is just very convenient not to have to connect to collect mail but it is worth trying this option to see if it makes a difference. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Morpheus, @19-Oct-2004, 20:40 Morpheus [M] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: M Using my language I can see inside 'the folder' the raw messages so M if anything was going to 'mangle' it as you poetically put it, M would it not have done so already? No. It gets changed as it is *sent* from the folder you can see inside (and it is not a folder - it is the pre-transmission mail store). M Yet when I look at the raw message in my TEXTEDITOR I see the whole M and not the stripped message TheBat! offers up to me. The stripped message is what the folder (it is *not* a folder) gives to The Bat!. The folder does not store the message stripped. It strips it *while passing it to The Bat!*. The Bat! does not strip it. Please stop saying it is The Bat! and you might start moving towards a solution. Downloading direct from the ISP server instead of this silly folder (it is NOT a folder - it is just a poorly written local email server) should prove that once and for all. M When I open TheBat! and ask to see my messages it pulls them from M the folder and does its thing. No it doesn't do its thing. It receives. It doesn't pull anything from any folder like you do with your TEXTEDITOR. It asks the silly folder thing to send it the messages. The silly folder thing sends. It doesn't sit back and say here's my folder, help yourself. It sends. That's where it goes wrong. The silly folder thing is *sending it wrong*. I'm not being condescending rude or abrupt here but I'm finding it very hard to put this in terms you are likely to understand. M If the satellite software was going to strip the emails why would M it not have done so already. Why? It hasn't *sent* them yet. M Your logic to me at least makes no sense. It makes a great deal of sense. Please think a bit deeper and try to understand what I (and many others) have been trying to explain to you about how this works. Your calling it a folder and looking in the temporary message store is doing nothing but confusing you. Even if you don't know what we're talking about, accept that we actually do. -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgplIDxt3E38w.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Marck, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 10:02:31 PM, you wrote: Dear Morpheus, @19-Oct-2004, 20:40 Morpheus [M] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: M Using my language I can see inside 'the folder' the raw messages so M if anything was going to 'mangle' it as you poetically put it, M would it not have done so already? No. It gets changed as it is *sent* from the folder you can see inside (and it is not a folder - it is the pre-transmission mail store). M Yet when I look at the raw message in my TEXTEDITOR I see the whole M and not the stripped message TheBat! offers up to me. The stripped message is what the folder (it is *not* a folder) gives to The Bat!. The folder does not store the message stripped. It strips it *while passing it to The Bat!*. The Bat! does not strip it. Please stop saying it is The Bat! and you might start moving towards a solution. Downloading direct from the ISP server instead of this silly folder (it is NOT a folder - it is just a poorly written local email server) should prove that once and for all. M When I open TheBat! and ask to see my messages it pulls them from M the folder and does its thing. No it doesn't do its thing. It receives. It doesn't pull anything from any folder like you do with your TEXTEDITOR. It asks the silly folder thing to send it the messages. The silly folder thing sends. It doesn't sit back and say here's my folder, help yourself. It sends. That's where it goes wrong. The silly folder thing is *sending it wrong*. I'm not being condescending rude or abrupt here but I'm finding it very hard to put this in terms you are likely to understand. M If the satellite software was going to strip the emails why would M it not have done so already. Why? It hasn't *sent* them yet. M Your logic to me at least makes no sense. It makes a great deal of sense. Please think a bit deeper and try to understand what I (and many others) have been trying to explain to you about how this works. Your calling it a folder and looking in the temporary message store is doing nothing but confusing you. Even if you don't know what we're talking about, accept that we actually do. Eureka now I understand what you are trying to force down my illiterate throat and I thank you for being so patient. I will now as you suggest switch to direct download and see if that cures it. Still at least we got off the subject of installing 3.001 for a few minutes. Thanks Marck :-) -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Marck! On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 4:02 PM, you wrote: MDP ... Even if you don't know what we're talking about, accept that MDP we actually do. Marck, you are so patient and so carefully trying to re-word your explanation until it is understood. Even I--dense as I usually am--believe that I understand it now. Just tangential to this thread, but tell me if I should be making a new, separate thread for the query: When I see my messages on the Mail Dispatcher, is part of them already on my machine, being called from Local Host (although until now I did not think of my machine as having an internal server and perhaps I am still confused)? That is, are the subject line and info, and the first 15 lines that I have the Message Dispatcher configured to show me, already on my machine before I tell The Bat! to fetch that particular mail? -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.1 (Professional Edition) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Mary, @19-Oct-2004, 16:18 -0500 (19-Oct 22:18 UK time) Mary Bull [MB] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: MDP ... Even if you don't know what we're talking about, accept that MDP we actually do. MB Marck, you are so patient and so carefully trying to re-word your MB explanation until it is understood. MB Even I--dense as I usually am--believe that I understand it now. I think Morpheus understood this time too. MB Just tangential to this thread, but tell me if I should be making MB a new, separate thread for the query: It's okay - it shouldn't last too long ... MB When I see my messages on the Mail Dispatcher, is part of them MB already on my machine, being called from Local Host (although MB until now I did not think of my machine as having an internal MB server and perhaps I am still confused)? You are. Slightly. POP3 includes the ability for the client software to request the server to send the TOP (n) lines of a message. That and the headers. TB's dispatcher uses these POP3 features to fuel the message dispatcher. All communication still takes place between TB and the POP3 server. -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgp8JM2S9T50Y.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Marck! On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 4:25 PM, you wrote: MDP POP3 includes the ability for the client software to request the MDP server to send the TOP (n) lines of a message. That and the MDP headers. TB's dispatcher uses these POP3 features to fuel the MDP message dispatcher. All communication still takes place between MDP TB and the POP3 server. Okay. Thanks. I think I got it now! :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.1 (Professional Edition) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Peter, On 19-10-2004 07:57, you [PF] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: PF I have had this a couple of times - empty preview pane and empty PF header pane. I'll see if I can find an example when I come home from PF work. This is the closest I have found for an empty mail. ,- [ ] | Received: from [68.35.97.25] by server131.net-server.dk [80.80.7.214] with SmartMax MailMax for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 24 May 2004 05:02:47 +0200 | Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | X-SmartMax-AuthUser: | Received: zbp[2 | X-Bayesian-Result: Clean (0) | X-Bayesian-Words: -Unknown- | X-P2P: PASS | X-SpamPal: SPAM SPBAG 68.35.97.25 | | `- It looks very strange. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.0.2.1 Pro /thebat version env. ~18 POP3, 1 IMAP (MailMax 5.5) 1 IMAP (Exchange 5.5), 150K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 /os Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Empty Mail
Can anyone explain why it is that when I receive an email that appears to be HTML only does TheBat! offer me an empty email? From what I can see it appears to be stripping out the HTML code that would link externally and provides me with a stripped email of everything except the headers. I find this not the least bit annoyoing that TheBat has made the decision on my behalf not to show me the content of these emails. Please can anyone offer me a solution. I have today received an email from a friend that has no content! -- Morpheus The Bat! 2.12.00 O/S Windows 2000 5 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Tbudl, @18-Oct-2004, 20:07 TBUDL [T] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to TBUDL: T Can anyone explain why it is that when I receive an email that T appears to be HTML only does TheBat! offer me an empty email? From T what I can see it appears to be stripping out the HTML code that T would link externally and provides me with a stripped email of T everything except the headers. TB strips nothing. Nothing was sent. The message is nothing but a link to an external message. TB will not download any external content since this would amount to a security breach. This is probably why you think the message is Empty. Have you checked the source data of the message? Is the content purely external or is the message, in fact, comprised of invalid / un-displayable HTML? If so it might be the result of a bug in either the sender's client or in TB's rendering system. -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgpSLyIQYrcll.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hi Monday, October 18, 2004, 8:17:10 PM, you wrote: Dear Tbudl, @18-Oct-2004, 20:07 TBUDL [T] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to TBUDL: T Can anyone explain why it is that when I receive an email that T appears to be HTML only does TheBat! offer me an empty email? From T what I can see it appears to be stripping out the HTML code that T would link externally and provides me with a stripped email of T everything except the headers. TB strips nothing. Nothing was sent. The message is nothing but a link to an external message. TB will not download any external content since this would amount to a security breach. This is probably why you think the message is Empty. Have you checked the source data of the message? Is the content purely external or is the message, in fact, comprised of invalid / un-displayable HTML? If so it might be the result of a bug in either the sender's client or in TB's rendering system. Below is the actual 'view source' of the said email. Can you unravel the problem? TheBat displays a grey page of nothing. Looking at the content of the mail there is of course nothing too display but I am sure there was before TheBat got hold of it. It has been doing this a lot with SPAM mail but I was not worried about those emails. I thought it might be the BayesIt filter stripping code without me knowing about it. By the way just for the record this email was not recognised as JUNK:: X-Envelope-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Envelope-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Delivery-Time: 1098112653 Received: from uk2mxarray2-2.uk2.net (uk2mxserver2-2.uk2.net [83.170.64.207]) by mail.skydsl.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04939 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:17:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from host-132-244-27-217.poboxhosting.net ([217.27.244.132] helo=nsi-server2.modoracle) by uk2mxarray2-2.uk2.net with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CJY4s-0004Jc-QP for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:01:35 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by nsi-server2.hardtoforget.co.uk (GMS 8.01.3088/NY8415.01.a508cfd1) with ESMTP id wgtjmfaa for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:59:05 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:59:04 + To: Kevin Bridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 217.27.244.132 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re[2]: RoSPA Test 28 Sept X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on uk2mxarray2-2.uk2.net X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=5.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG,MIME_HEADER_CTYPE_ONLY, MIME_HTML_NO_CHARSET,MIME_HTML_ONLY,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.64 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_4173CCBF.D9B0C8A4 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.0 (built Sat, 24 Jul 2004 09:53:34 +0200) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on uk2mxarray2-2.uk2.net) =_4173CCBF.D9B0C8A4-- -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Tbudl, @18-Oct-2004, 20:31 TBUDL [T] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: T would link externally and provides me with a stripped email of T everything except the headers. TB strips nothing. Nothing was sent. ... snip T Below is the actual 'view source' of the said email. Can you unravel T the problem? Yes. You received an empty message. T TheBat displays a grey page of nothing. That because it's what TB was sent. T Looking at the content of the mail there is of course nothing too T display Correct. T but I am sure there was before TheBat got hold of it. Why are you sure of that? I have never seen TB remove a single thing from a message. It's not something it is supposed to do. T It has been doing this a lot with SPAM mail but I was not worried T about those emails. I thought it might be the BayesIt filter T stripping code without me knowing about it. Nope. T By the way just for the record this email was not recognised as T JUNK:: Yes it was. SpamAssassin decided it was spam: T X-Spam-Status: Yes Perhaps SpamAssassin stipped out the HTML. TB wouldn't. T X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on uk2mxarray2-2.uk2.net) Also, Exim had a go at the message before TB got to see it. -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgpgvDKtEdyRb.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hi Monday, October 18, 2004, 8:55:07 PM, you wrote: Dear Tbudl, @18-Oct-2004, 20:31 TBUDL [T] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: T would link externally and provides me with a stripped email of T everything except the headers. TB strips nothing. Nothing was sent. .. snip T Below is the actual 'view source' of the said email. Can you unravel T the problem? Yes. You received an empty message. T TheBat displays a grey page of nothing. That because it's what TB was sent. T Looking at the content of the mail there is of course nothing too T display Correct. T but I am sure there was before TheBat got hold of it. Why are you sure of that? I have never seen TB remove a single thing from a message. It's not something it is supposed to do. T It has been doing this a lot with SPAM mail but I was not worried T about those emails. I thought it might be the BayesIt filter T stripping code without me knowing about it. Nope. T By the way just for the record this email was not recognised as T JUNK:: Yes it was. SpamAssassin decided it was spam: T X-Spam-Status: Yes Perhaps SpamAssassin stipped out the HTML. TB wouldn't. T X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on uk2mxarray2-2.uk2.net) Also, Exim had a go at the message before TB got to see it. Ok here is a prime example of the before and after TheBat has brought the email in - following is the before i.e. sitting in my 127.0.0.1 folder before being requested by TheBat! X-Envelope-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Envelope-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Delivery-Time: 1098135622 Received: from uk2mxserver2-3.uk2.net (uk2mxserver2-3.uk2.net [83.170.64.208]) by mail.skydsl.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18976 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:40:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [210.127.79.162] (helo=83.170.64.208) by uk2mxserver2-3.uk2.net with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CJfEk-0008Iu-GP for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:40:16 +0100 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from 164.110.36.149 by law0-hs22.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:31:15 -0300 Reply-To: Taylor Jaramillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Taylor Jaramillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 02:37:15 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 210.127.79.162 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Vãlium and X.anax SuperSavings X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on uk2mxserver2-3.uk2.net X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=9.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_10, HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_BOUND_DD_DIGITS,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO,SUBJECT_DRUG_GAP_X autolearn=no version=2.64 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_41743840.F88CE9F3 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.0 (built Sat, 24 Jul 2004 09:53:34 +0200) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on uk2mxserver2-3.uk2.net) 823241037052079 Content-Type: text/plain; !-- addressee latvia wrathful chloride dr newsmen sinai ask joystick rhine cozen casebook costa gunny aperture dusky caterpillar wakeful shield bette butyl crock approach claudio external incarnate competitive booty harvest evaporate adjective spy hey jules dowager issue gall surreptitious devious shuck fourteenth serpens paulus cyclotomic rica abrupt propaganda apostle !-- 823241037052079 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable html head titlePha. rma/title meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3Dtext/html; charset=3Diso-8859= -1 /head body table width=3D450 height=3D447 border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 cellspa= cing=3D0 align=3Dcenter tr td a href=3Dhttp://www.cizhder.info/110/;img src=3Dhttp://a6.flatly9leng= thy.info/m/0f.gif border=3D0/td /tr tr td align=3Dcenter Safont style=3Dfont-size:1px;/fontve 7font style=3Dfont-size:1px_/f= ont0% ordfont style=3Dfont-size:1px./fontering onlfont style=3Dfont-= size:1px//fontine Tofont style=3Dfont-size:1px`/fontday!brbr ba href=3Dhttp://www.cizhder.info/110/;Vifont style=3Dfont-size:1px= !/fontsit our Site and Safont style=3Dfont-size:1px!/fontve Big/a= /bbrbr /font font style=3Dfont-size:1px external canada bald coastal erect indenture philology repeal vulnerable b= odice gill egghead baylor doughnut prove drought pickup transposition gsa = hopscotch vestigial chatham frenchmen inescapable ductwork lange calcify t= wenty=20deject metabole tibet telltale commodity adjudge handel molal talc= um coat dutchman discrete gifford wash bogey pinsky radiant rocco snail cr= itter bogey christie dale drumhead worksheet ephraim hollister culture=20t= attoo antiquarian avoid knutson lecture ire excusable berserk defocus homu= nculus advisee skullduggery boat rockaway christoffel=20buyer alienate str= addle umber rogers brushfire circle amelia establish cecilia hitachi harmo= nious mitten restaurant seductive urge anyway villain abacus obituary broo= dy composition degrade ambitious permeable brisk=20imposture arrogate ralp= h
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Tbudl, You are NOT TBUDL - at least a recognisable name, albeit an alias may help to get some extra input from others. Right now, it's not easy to take such ill conceived anonymity seriously. @18-Oct-2004, 23:24 TBUDL [T] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: ... snip T TheBat displays a grey page of nothing. That because it's what TB was sent. ... snip T Ok here is a prime example of the before and after TheBat has brought T the email in - following is the before i.e. sitting in my 127.0.0.1 T folder before being requested by TheBat! Your 127.0.0.1 folder? On what? Whatever is handing the message to TB my be stripping it. I've seen blank messages come in to TB but they start out that way at source. I've never seen TB tamper with mail in any way (unless by fault of a rare bug during a beta). One of TB's points of pride is its data integrity when it comes to received mail. 127.0.0.1 is a localhost IP address. So that would seem to imply that have a local proxy that is intercepting your email before TB sees it. Do you think that could be what's emptying the content before you see it? HEY!! Anyone else reading this thread who's seen TB empty a mail on delivery? I've not seen that happen. Nobody's leaping in to say yeah, TB always does that. If somebody can support one or other side of this debate it would help. ... snip T Now as you can see this is not an email I want to see anyway but T that is not the point here. I should be choosing what I wish to see T and not a piece of software that has yet to learn my tastes in T email. You may need to look deeper than just TB. T This was not identified by BayesIt as JUNK by the way. I believe that would be because by the time TB saw it, it was blank. T At this rate I am going to need some Vãlium ;-0 Lol -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgponvboDGt0z.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
On Monday, October 18, 2004, 11:44:19 PM, Marck D Pearlstone wrote: HEY!! Anyone else reading this thread who's seen TB empty a mail on delivery? I've not seen that happen. Nobody's leaping in to say yeah, TB always does that. If somebody can support one or other side of this debate it would help. I have not seen TB empty a mail exactly, but I have problems with TB! (or something along the way that affects only TB!) changing the Part boundaries of messages so the file names do not appear correctly. For example, I got the following message which when the source is viewed shows the following boundary: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL PROTECTED]@13161 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=Draft Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 The problem is that the name should actually be Draft Cheshire Supporting People Eligibility Criteria v2.8.doc, but it gets chopped at the first space in the file name, so in the Attachment panel it appears as Draft and I have to rename it before I can open it. This only happens with one organisation, which suggests a peculiarity with their setup, but notwithstanding this, Outlook, OE and Popcorn all report the file name properly. Unfortunately I do not have an example downladed in another email client at the moment - I will test it again when one next arrives - but I recall that this content boundary only appeared to be truncated in TB!, that it is either TB! or the interaction of TB! and something else that is causing the problems. I created a bug report at the time this started affecting me: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=2043 Julian -- Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Marck! On Monday, October 18, 2004, 5:44 PM, you wrote: MDP HEY!! Anyone else reading this thread who's seen TB empty a mail MDP on delivery? I've not seen that happen. Nobody's leaping in to MDP say yeah, TB always does that. If somebody can support one or MDP other side of this debate it would help. I have been using The Bat! for two years now and have been a subscriber to TBUDL for the same amount of time. I have never seen a modified or empty message come in to any of the three TB! lists to which I am subscribed, nor to TBOT. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.1 (Professional Edition) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Hello Marck, Monday, October 18, 2004, 3:44:19 PM, you wrote: If somebody can support one or other side of this debate it would help. I have received empty e-mails but they have always been junk. I just assumed they were sent empty. I have never received an empty or modified valuable e-mail. -- Thanks, Terry Using the Bat! 3.0.1 RC4 under Windows XP Service Pack 2 2600 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Dear Julian, @19-Oct-2004, 00:12 Julian Beach (Lists) [JB] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: ... snip JB The problem is that the name should actually be Draft Cheshire JB Supporting People Eligibility Criteria v2.8.doc, ,--/ The name parameter \-- RFC 1341 also defined the use of a NAME parameter which gave a suggested file name to be used if the data were to be written to a file. This has been deprecated in anticipation of a separate Content-Disposition header field, to be defined in a subsequent RFC. `--\ End /-- However, the content of the name parameter will be legitimate provided it is a token (no spaces or specials) or a Quoted String (which can contain spaces). ... snip So this relates to TB's improper interpretation of a deprecated header parameter rather than the complete excision of body data. -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgpdZ2H9gu20f.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Empty Mail
Marck, On 19-10-2004 00:44, you [MDP] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: MDP HEY!! Anyone else reading this thread who's seen TB empty a mail on MDP delivery? I've not seen that happen. Nobody's leaping in to say MDP yeah, TB always does that. I have had this a couple of times - empty preview pane and empty header pane. I'll see if I can find an example when I come home from work. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.0.2.1 /thebat version os Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1/os Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
