Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[lukefromdc]

There is one limitation to "If the community prefers to use Google Hangouts, it 
would be highly 
counterproductive if you did not, particularly if you are a involved in the 
work being discussed."
That is that some people do not have Google accounts and in fact some people 
cannot make
them due to the "real names" policy and the Google policy of asking for SMS 
verification in
cases where they don't like the browser, the IP address, or think the personal 
information isn't
someone's real name. 

That may not apply if all those who would be actually participating in the 
discussion already
have Google accounts, but would apply to a discussion including one or more 
persons who 
do not have or want Google accounts for other reasons, or simply cannot make 
them. That's
not a matter of whether or not to oppose non-free services, but rather a matter 
of picking
a communications method that is physically usable by all participants. 

This is not about me, as most of my work these days is on MATE plus testing 
kdenlive git.
Don't worry about me not being on Google. Instead my advice is to  figure out 
if all the folks 
who would be using the  "hangout" already have accounts or not and go forward 
from there. 

Yes, Google has issues-but if that led to ad networks using Ubuntustudio 
instead of Windows
to make their ads, or to the NSA using UbuntuStudio to make their presentations 
to politicans
I don't see how that would harm the project.

On 7/10/2016 at 6:42 AM, "Kaj Ailomaa"  wrote:
>
>On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
>> On 2016-07-10 11:48, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
>> > It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who 
>is not
>> > ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of 
>the team.
>> 
>> I'm affraid it is not up to you to decide. And i find it 
>ironcial that
>> you of all past project leads invoke flexibility.
>> 
>> But sure, set up a vote: Who is the villain that should be 
>fired? Good
>> Ubuntu Studio spirit my friend.
>
>Not sure what you are talking about here. So, I will not comment on
>this.
>
>Also, though I can agree that I'm overly harsh with my words (as I 
>so
>often am), I would still rather focus on the issue at hand. Which 
>is
>about Google Hangouts.
>
>So, let me say this one last thing about the discussion whether we
>should or should not use Google Hangouts.
>
>1. Ubuntu Studio does not have a policy for/against Google 
>services.
>Historically we have used them plenty. So, historically it is 
>something
>we use. This means, though it is not in writing we actually do 
>have a
>policy for using Google services.
>2. It is your personal opinion that we should not use Google 
>Hangouts.
>If you prefer not to use them, start a discussion about it, and 
>see who
>is for/against. Since, in fact, it is no one who chooses that but 
>the
>community.
>3. If the community prefers to use Google Hangouts, it would be 
>highly
>counterproductive if you did not, particularly if you are a 
>involved in
>the work being discussed. And, you already knew coming to Ubuntu 
>Studio
>that we are not a political movement against non-free services 
>(where
>Google Hangouts can hardly be deemed as a threat against free and 
>open
>communication, rather the opposite). So, logic dictates that you 
>should
>use the services if the community wishes it.
>
>Jimmy knew this, out of experience. So, naturally, he would suggest
>using something like Google Hangouts for live communication.
>
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
> On 2016-07-10 11:48, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> > It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who is not
> > ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of the team.
> 
> I'm affraid it is not up to you to decide. And i find it ironcial that
> you of all past project leads invoke flexibility.
> 
> But sure, set up a vote: Who is the villain that should be fired? Good
> Ubuntu Studio spirit my friend.

Not sure what you are talking about here. So, I will not comment on
this.

Also, though I can agree that I'm overly harsh with my words (as I so
often am), I would still rather focus on the issue at hand. Which is
about Google Hangouts.

So, let me say this one last thing about the discussion whether we
should or should not use Google Hangouts.

1. Ubuntu Studio does not have a policy for/against Google services.
Historically we have used them plenty. So, historically it is something
we use. This means, though it is not in writing we actually do have a
policy for using Google services.
2. It is your personal opinion that we should not use Google Hangouts.
If you prefer not to use them, start a discussion about it, and see who
is for/against. Since, in fact, it is no one who chooses that but the
community.
3. If the community prefers to use Google Hangouts, it would be highly
counterproductive if you did not, particularly if you are a involved in
the work being discussed. And, you already knew coming to Ubuntu Studio
that we are not a political movement against non-free services (where
Google Hangouts can hardly be deemed as a threat against free and open
communication, rather the opposite). So, logic dictates that you should
use the services if the community wishes it.

Jimmy knew this, out of experience. So, naturally, he would suggest
using something like Google Hangouts for live communication.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

On 2016-07-10 11:48, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
>> On 2016-07-10 11:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
>>> Just want to mention a couple of things.
>>>
>>> The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left
>>> our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active
>>> members of this community, currently).
>>>
>>> Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped
>>> by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation.
>>
>> Ok, he took an initiative, and formulated it as an initiative on behalf
>> of the group. It was a miscommunication, ok, we get that now.
>>
>> Why not just correct the shot instead of tacitly call a fellow team-mate
>> narrowminded contraproductive.
> 
> Perhaps your own words describe it best. Or, if I rewrite it to
> "narrowmindedly counterproductive".
> 
> At least, it is clear that you are very stubborn and not ready to back
> one inch from your original position - which in itself is not the Ubuntu
> Studio position, but your own personal position. You don't actually
> promote discussion. Just that you are prepared to fire more words at it,
> if someone is ready to listen to them - since you clearly are not ready
> to reevaluate your role in this project and what the project is actually
> about.

Sure, flaming someone up publicly like you do now is a good way to make
someone back down. FTR, i've expressed countless of times that i came to
understand that jimmy did NOT talk on behalf of a group. The only one
who took things personaly in this case is Jimmy. However, since you now
make this your own personal issue publicly: if anyone has a record in
bad conflict-management enabling them to be judgemental about this kind
of attitude, i don't think it is you, zequence.

> 
>>
>>>
>>> Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu
>>> Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a
>>> very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools
>>> would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the
>>> solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so.
>>
>> No, it was jimmy's initiative. If HE wants to help with video HE should
>> set up a sollution for video conference. Using hangouts or skype would
>> exclude major part of the team from taking part.
> 
> It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who is not
> ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of the team.

I'm affraid it is not up to you to decide. And i find it ironcial that
you of all past project leads invoke flexibility.

But sure, set up a vote: Who is the villain that should be fired? Good
Ubuntu Studio spirit my friend.

> 
>>
>> And like i said MANY times, i don't care what jimmy does in his
>> freetime. However, being a member of the team, if jimmy writes "we" to a
>> 3rd part in the context of this list then he has to assume to be read as
>> taking an initiative on behlaf of the group. This is basic
>> communciation. Had that mail of his been sent off-list directly to Devin
>> nothing of this would have been necessary. There was already clear signs
>> of confusion in the discussion regarding what the team could do for NEC
>> or not, i felt Jimmy's freelance shot had the potential to build uppon
>> that confusion and corrected that.
>>
>> Believe it or not, i have regards concerning Jimmy. I do enjoy him as a
>> person. But this drama number has severely affected me personaly and the
>> way i perceive him. Trying to look back i wonder what he has done, but i
>> sure know it is the 3rd time he calls me out for being a conservative
>> freesoftware extremist. And Last time someone slammed the door on me
>> over a simple disagreement, i was a teenager.
>>
>>>
>>> Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free
>>> software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination
>>> with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free
>>> software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway
>>> already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free
>>> solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or
>>> the developer. It's just an impossibility.
>>> That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu
>>> Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in
>>> order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also
>>> the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will
>>> just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order
>>> for people to discover the free software world.
>>>
>>> We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such
>>> services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are
>>> *for* free software. It's a big difference.
>>
>> Exactly, we are FOR free 

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
> On 2016-07-10 11:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> > Just want to mention a couple of things.
> > 
> > The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left
> > our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active
> > members of this community, currently).
> > 
> > Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped
> > by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation.
> 
> Ok, he took an initiative, and formulated it as an initiative on behalf
> of the group. It was a miscommunication, ok, we get that now.
> 
> Why not just correct the shot instead of tacitly call a fellow team-mate
> narrowminded contraproductive.

Perhaps your own words describe it best. Or, if I rewrite it to
"narrowmindedly counterproductive".

At least, it is clear that you are very stubborn and not ready to back
one inch from your original position - which in itself is not the Ubuntu
Studio position, but your own personal position. You don't actually
promote discussion. Just that you are prepared to fire more words at it,
if someone is ready to listen to them - since you clearly are not ready
to reevaluate your role in this project and what the project is actually
about.

> 
> > 
> > Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu
> > Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a
> > very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools
> > would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the
> > solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so.
> 
> No, it was jimmy's initiative. If HE wants to help with video HE should
> set up a sollution for video conference. Using hangouts or skype would
> exclude major part of the team from taking part.

It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who is not
ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of the team.

> 
> And like i said MANY times, i don't care what jimmy does in his
> freetime. However, being a member of the team, if jimmy writes "we" to a
> 3rd part in the context of this list then he has to assume to be read as
> taking an initiative on behlaf of the group. This is basic
> communciation. Had that mail of his been sent off-list directly to Devin
> nothing of this would have been necessary. There was already clear signs
> of confusion in the discussion regarding what the team could do for NEC
> or not, i felt Jimmy's freelance shot had the potential to build uppon
> that confusion and corrected that.
> 
> Believe it or not, i have regards concerning Jimmy. I do enjoy him as a
> person. But this drama number has severely affected me personaly and the
> way i perceive him. Trying to look back i wonder what he has done, but i
> sure know it is the 3rd time he calls me out for being a conservative
> freesoftware extremist. And Last time someone slammed the door on me
> over a simple disagreement, i was a teenager.
> 
> > 
> > Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free
> > software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination
> > with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free
> > software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway
> > already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free
> > solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or
> > the developer. It's just an impossibility.
> > That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu
> > Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in
> > order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also
> > the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will
> > just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order
> > for people to discover the free software world.
> > 
> > We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such
> > services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are
> > *for* free software. It's a big difference.
> 
> Exactly, we are FOR free software. That means we should first look for
> freesoftware alternatives. If you come with a plan, than make it happen.
> 

There was already a good plan. But, there was only one person in the
team who was against it, and it was you.

> Now i understand Jimmy did NOT speak on behalf of the group. Why is
> that? Maybe he hasn't felt like a member for a long time? I don't know,
> i can just speculate. His departue sure is a loss, and i wish things
> would have worked out differently. But they didn't. I understand you
> stand up for your buddy, but reviving this discussion is not going to
> sort anything out.
> 
> If anyone has a problem with with my attitude in this discussion and
> think there is something i should learn, i welcome them to bring it up
> with either me or jimmy off-list.
> 
> 

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

On 2016-07-10 11:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> Just want to mention a couple of things.
> 
> The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left
> our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active
> members of this community, currently).
> 
> Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped
> by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation.

Ok, he took an initiative, and formulated it as an initiative on behalf
of the group. It was a miscommunication, ok, we get that now.

Why not just correct the shot instead of tacitly call a fellow team-mate
narrowminded contraproductive.

> 
> Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu
> Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a
> very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools
> would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the
> solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so.

No, it was jimmy's initiative. If HE wants to help with video HE should
set up a sollution for video conference. Using hangouts or skype would
exclude major part of the team from taking part.

And like i said MANY times, i don't care what jimmy does in his
freetime. However, being a member of the team, if jimmy writes "we" to a
3rd part in the context of this list then he has to assume to be read as
taking an initiative on behlaf of the group. This is basic
communciation. Had that mail of his been sent off-list directly to Devin
nothing of this would have been necessary. There was already clear signs
of confusion in the discussion regarding what the team could do for NEC
or not, i felt Jimmy's freelance shot had the potential to build uppon
that confusion and corrected that.

Believe it or not, i have regards concerning Jimmy. I do enjoy him as a
person. But this drama number has severely affected me personaly and the
way i perceive him. Trying to look back i wonder what he has done, but i
sure know it is the 3rd time he calls me out for being a conservative
freesoftware extremist. And Last time someone slammed the door on me
over a simple disagreement, i was a teenager.

> 
> Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free
> software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination
> with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free
> software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway
> already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free
> solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or
> the developer. It's just an impossibility.
> That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu
> Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in
> order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also
> the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will
> just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order
> for people to discover the free software world.
> 
> We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such
> services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are
> *for* free software. It's a big difference.

Exactly, we are FOR free software. That means we should first look for
freesoftware alternatives. If you come with a plan, than make it happen.

Now i understand Jimmy did NOT speak on behalf of the group. Why is
that? Maybe he hasn't felt like a member for a long time? I don't know,
i can just speculate. His departue sure is a loss, and i wish things
would have worked out differently. But they didn't. I understand you
stand up for your buddy, but reviving this discussion is not going to
sort anything out.

If anyone has a problem with with my attitude in this discussion and
think there is something i should learn, i welcome them to bring it up
with either me or jimmy off-list.

Thank you.


-- 
Set Hallstrom aka sakrecoer



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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 11:10 AM, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> Just want to mention a couple of things.
> 
> The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left
> our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active
> members of this community, currently).
> 

..though I'm sure Jimmy has probably pondered about quitting before (I
can't really speak for Jimmy), and I should not put the entire blame on
this discussion.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

Just want to mention a couple of things.

The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left
our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active
members of this community, currently).

Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped
by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation.

Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu
Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a
very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools
would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the
solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so.

Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free
software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination
with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free
software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway
already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free
solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or
the developer. It's just an impossibility.
That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu
Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in
order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also
the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will
just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order
for people to discover the free software world.

We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such
services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are
*for* free software. It's a big difference.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Devin Ulibarri]

Hi all,

I have access to reliable Jitsi channel (and am willing to use other solutions 
if need be).

I will limit further communication on this topic off-list.

Thanks for everything to get this started.

Devin

On July 9, 2016 7:08:06 AM EDT, "Jimmy Sjölund"  wrote:
> Original Message 
>
>Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be
>Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
>Local Time: July 9, 2016 12:53 PM
>UTC Time: July 9, 2016 10:53 AM
>From: s...@ubuntustudio.org
>To: ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>
>
>it is very hard and confusing to read your emails, jimmy. you do not
>quote
>properly.
>
>I have filed a bug to ProtonMail. Not much more I can do unfortunately
>other than to edit > myself.
>
>
>
>> when you write 'we' in the context of the list you have to expect
>being
>> read as speaking on behalf of the team. for personal matters please
>use
>> email off-list.
>
>I wrote "we" as in Devin and me and last I checked I was still
>considered a member of the team. In all my years in the Ubuntu Studio
>community have I heard that we were not allowed to continue a
>discussion in the thread on the mailing list. I did not know that as a
>member of the team I would need approval from anyone to talk to someone
>else. That's not a community I would support.
>
>
>
>> as for your implication of narrow minded attitude, i reckon that is a
>> matter of POV. However, as you may know, this is a foss mailing list.
>
>> Of course we should listen to NEC, non the less to use the teams
>sparse
>> ressources to set up specialized ressources is detrimental to our
>focus.
>> Given it is used properly, email is an excellent format to develop
>ideas
>> and concepts, o is IRC. Ubuntu Studio is in itself proof of this
>statement.
>
>
>How I use my own time and resources is up to me. I did not suggest
>anyone else would join a potential talk or put in time unless they
>wanted to or that Ubuntu Studio should set up any special resources for
>any party. I think you have misunderstood the whole point of my
>suggestion to have a chat with NEC.
>
>Further, if the OP feels email is limiting their way to express
>themselves, why would it be an issue to communicate in any other way?
>Email and IRC is not the best way for everyone.
>
>This thread is getting ridiculous. I'm out.
>
>/Jimmy
>
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

On 2016-07-09 13:08, Jimmy Sjölund wrote:
>  Original Message 
>> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be 
>> Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory? Local Time:
>> July 9, 2016 12:53 PM UTC Time: July 9, 2016 10:53 AM From:
>> s...@ubuntustudio.org To: ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>> 
>> 
>> it is very hard and confusing to read your emails, jimmy. you do
>> not quote properly.
> 
> I have filed a bug to ProtonMail. Not much more I can do
> unfortunately other than to edit > myself.

Fair enough. I didn't know protonmail dose not allow Mail-clients.

>>> when you write 'we' in the context of the list you have to expect
>>> being read as speaking on behalf of the team. for personal
>>> matters please use email off-list
> 
> I wrote "we" as in Devin and me

No, You wrote

> _We_ could set up a video call or Google Hangout if you would like to
> discuss a bit more easily.

In the context of the list, being the devel-team member that you are,
that sounds like "we, the team" to me... Maybe i'm the only one, but i
can't read your mind, sorry about that. I also apologize if i
anticipated Devin misunderstanding your statement as if "we", the team,
would set up a video conference for his project.

> and last I checked I was still considered a member of the team. 

Nobody is questioning your membership. (except maybe you in this
response and your launchpad karma page, but we all now launchpad isn't
necessarily representative)

> In
> all my years in the Ubuntu Studio community have I heard that we were
> not allowed to continue a discussion in the thread on the mailing
> list. I did not know that as a member of the team I would need
> approval from anyone to talk to someone else. That's not a community
> I would support.

Nobody suggested you are not allowed to continue discussions. All _i_
did was to correct/question what you ment by "we" and ask you if you
could set up video conferences using tools aligned with our philosophy:
http://ubuntustudio.org/about-ubuntustudio/

>> 
>>> as for your implication of narrow minded attitude, i reckon that
>>> is a matter of POV. However, as you may know, this is a foss
>>> mailing list.
>> 
>>> Of course we should listen to NEC, non the less to use the teams
>>> sparse ressources to set up specialized ressources is detrimental
>>> to our
>> focus.
>>> Given it is used properly, email is an excellent format to
>>> develop
>> ideas
>>> and concepts, o is IRC. Ubuntu Studio is in itself proof of this
>> statement.
>> 
> 
> How I use my own time and resources is up to me. I did not suggest 
> anyone else would join a potential talk or put in time unless they 
> wanted to or that Ubuntu Studio should set up any special resources
> for any party. I think you have misunderstood the whole point of my 
> suggestion to have a chat with NEC.

No jimmy: you missunderstood me. I think you need to read my mails a
couple of more times: all i did was to say you may use your time however
you want with whatever software you want, but to underline that you may
use your own personal tools for your own personal agenda. Basicaly,
exactly what you state here above.

> 
> Further, if the OP feels email is limiting their way to express 
> themselves, why would it be an issue to communicate in any other
> way? Email and IRC is not the best way for everyone.
> 

Sure thing! However, at this point, there is nothing much we can do
since the issue should be addressed to canonical. But like i wrote and
write again: you are welcome to give your personal assistance to anyone.
And If you do so using the group's tools, please be wary to pinpoint
that it is your own personal initiative, and avoid generalizing terms
such as "we", when you in fact mean "he/her and me".

> This thread is getting ridiculous. I'm out.
> 
> /Jimmy
> 

I agree, by taking everything personally you made it so. I understand
from previous discussion between you and me that you have a personal
issue with my ethics. I hereby kindly invite you to take those issues up
with me personally off-list. Letting your frustration roll out on the
list makes us all look bad.

Devin: i'm sorry this thread took the appearance of you ending up in the
middle of this. But you aren't the cause for anything here. You are
doing the right thing by asking for guidance and motivating everyone
with your constructive ways. Like i said previously: Rest assured you
are welcome to ask any question to the list or team and we will do our
best to help you to the possible extend.

However, and i repeat, canonical is your channel, they might indeed be
able to set-up a conference with hang-outs, i've only talked to them via
IRC.


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Jimmy Sjölund]

 Original Message 

Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in 
Partnering with New England Conservatory?
Local Time: July 9, 2016 12:53 PM
UTC Time: July 9, 2016 10:53 AM
From: s...@ubuntustudio.org
To: ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com


it is very hard and confusing to read your emails, jimmy. you do not quote
properly.

I have filed a bug to ProtonMail. Not much more I can do unfortunately other 
than to edit > myself.



> when you write 'we' in the context of the list you have to expect being
> read as speaking on behalf of the team. for personal matters please use
> email off-list.

I wrote "we" as in Devin and me and last I checked I was still considered a 
member of the team. In all my years in the Ubuntu Studio community have I heard 
that we were not allowed to continue a discussion in the thread on the mailing 
list. I did not know that as a member of the team I would need approval from 
anyone to talk to someone else. That's not a community I would support.



> as for your implication of narrow minded attitude, i reckon that is a
> matter of POV. However, as you may know, this is a foss mailing list.

> Of course we should listen to NEC, non the less to use the teams sparse
> ressources to set up specialized ressources is detrimental to our focus.
> Given it is used properly, email is an excellent format to develop ideas
> and concepts, o is IRC. Ubuntu Studio is in itself proof of this statement.


How I use my own time and resources is up to me. I did not suggest anyone else 
would join a potential talk or put in time unless they wanted to or that Ubuntu 
Studio should set up any special resources for any party. I think you have 
misunderstood the whole point of my suggestion to have a chat with NEC.

Further, if the OP feels email is limiting their way to express themselves, why 
would it be an issue to communicate in any other way? Email and IRC is not the 
best way for everyone.

This thread is getting ridiculous. I'm out.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

lördagen den 9:e juli 2016 kl. 12:02:02 CEST, Jimmy Sjölund 
 skrev:

 Original Message 

Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be 
Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

Local Time: July 9, 2016 11:06 AM
UTC Time: July 9, 2016 9:06 AM
From: s...@ubuntustudio.org
To: ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com

fredagen den 8:e juli 2016 kl. 19:31:14 CEST, Jimmy Sjölund
 skrev:


We could set up a
video call or Google Hangout if you would like to discuss a bit
more easily.


Have you joined canonical Jimmy?
No.


Afaik, ubuntu studio has no tools for video conference available.
No, not really.


I'm no one to tell you if you should or not join efforts with NEC to help
them free their computing, but if you do; please do so on your own behalf.
If you want to include the team to spend time and energy in a video
conference to help a third part, at least make sure you discuss the options
with- and set up the tools for the team first.
No, of course I wouldn't set up a meeting for someone else. If 
Devin would be interested to discuss open source with someone in 
the community I would try to make that happen, within my own 
schedule. As he wrote it was difficult through email I suggested 
another form of communication that might be easier.



Misunderstand me right, I'd love to see you point us to existing tools or
set freesoftware video conferences up so that the devel team can discuss
internal issues more easily. However, hangouts or skype are no options.
How the devel team discuss internal things was not in scope. I 
suggested using a video conference or Google Hangout with 
another person, hence the "we". Not "we" as everyone on the 
list.
As Canonical (or anyone else) has not found any good 
alternative so far, all Ubuntu conferences have used Google 
Hangout for years. Unfortunate yes, but until good alternatives 
are available that is what they have chosen. As I suggested a 
call with someone outside of the open source world a hangout 
might be the best way to start as it much more likely that they 
have used it before or at least will be able to easily set it up 
to discuss matters. At a later stage other means of 
communication might be used.


Saying that it's not an option to use anything other than free 
software it's quite narrow minded and not very productive. What 
you chose to use for internal discussions within the devel team 
is up to you and the team. Besides, what I use as a person to 
help someone out, who is considering trying to use open source, 
is up to me.


Surely, I would not make any promises or speak on behalf of the 
whole community or Canonical or anything. But to listen to NEC 
and their questions and perhaps point them in a direction to get 
answers. That's how the community works.


/Jimmy


it is very hard and confusing to read your emails, jimmy. you do not quote 
properly.


when you write 'we' in the context of the list you have to expect being 
read as speaking on behalf of the team. for personal matters please use 
email off-list.


as for your implication of narrow minded attitude, i reckon that is a 
matter of POV. However, as you may know, this is a foss mailing list.


Of course we should listen to NEC, non the less to use the teams sparse 
ressources to set up specialized ressources is detrimental to our focus. 
Given it is used properly, email is an excellent format to develop ideas 
and concepts, o is IRC. Ubuntu Studio is in itself proof of this statement.





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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Off-topic:

This mail is addressed to Jimmy :).

Jimmy, some of us don't view the HTML part of your mails, we see your
mails with the same formatting as it is shown by the mailing list
archive:

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2016-July/007883.html

If you sent multipart with HTML, please at least ensure that the plain
text part of the mails use proper quoting style, too.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:10:57 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>Hi Jimmy,

Oops, the OP is "Devin" :). My apologies, my preceding reply is
addressed to the OP.

Hi Devin ;)

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:06:25 +0200, Set Hallstrom wrote:
> [snip]
>Afaik, ubuntu studio has no tools for video conference available. 
> [snip]
>However, hangouts or skype are no options.

Hi Jimmy,

I don't know if "video conference" could be done with open source. I'm
not a friend of Google, but since it's a giant search engine, it could
be helpful to get more information. There are explanations, how to
install Skype, but the ethics link might explain, why Skype likely is
no option. Audio conference seems to be possible with Ubuntu and perhaps
"video chat" means that a video conference is also possible, but
perhaps it only means that two ports and not a group can use it.

A few links I didn't completely read, so they might or might not be
helpful:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SkypeEthics
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Videoconferencing
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ekiga
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ekiga/FAQ
https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Apps/Empathy?action=show=Empathy

Conferences could be an issue, not only regarding different time zones.
If people are willing to spend time on a video conference, first have a
longer test conference with friends, to ensure that there will be no
troubles.

If you can't present at least one Ubuntu Studio computer that runs
trouble-free, you leave a bad impression.

Consider to set up a long time tested stable workstation with Ubuntu
Studio for all tasks that are wanted. To get help with this join the
appropriate mailing lists.

This list and
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users are good,
but als consider to get help from

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users

and assumed you're using Xfce, I guess it's still the default desktop
environmentfor Ubuntu Studio, also consider to join

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-users

For learning purpose also consider to at least install a backup of your
install as a virtualbox guest and test upgrades, especially release
upgrades. Also check backwards compatibility of data, after using
copies of data with new software versions. Linux usually is the better
choice, but it isn't without pitfalls. If you want convince somebody to
use Ubuntu Studio, you should be able to avoid and resolve issues. Be
careful to change anything within a school year, better test it during
holidays.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Jimmy Sjölund]

 Original Message 

Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in 
Partnering with New England Conservatory?
Local Time: July 9, 2016 11:06 AM
UTC Time: July 9, 2016 9:06 AM
From: s...@ubuntustudio.org
To: ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com

fredagen den 8:e juli 2016 kl. 19:31:14 CEST, Jimmy Sjölund
 skrev:

>> We could set up a
>> video call or Google Hangout if you would like to discuss a bit
>> more easily.

Have you joined canonical Jimmy?
No.


Afaik, ubuntu studio has no tools for video conference available.
No, not really.


I'm no one to tell you if you should or not join efforts with NEC to help
them free their computing, but if you do; please do so on your own behalf.
If you want to include the team to spend time and energy in a video
conference to help a third part, at least make sure you discuss the options
with- and set up the tools for the team first.
No, of course I wouldn't set up a meeting for someone else. If Devin would be 
interested to discuss open source with someone in the community I would try to 
make that happen, within my own schedule. As he wrote it was difficult through 
email I suggested another form of communication that might be easier.


Misunderstand me right, I'd love to see you point us to existing tools or
set freesoftware video conferences up so that the devel team can discuss
internal issues more easily. However, hangouts or skype are no options.
How the devel team discuss internal things was not in scope. I suggested using 
a video conference or Google Hangout with another person, hence the "we". Not 
"we" as everyone on the list.
As Canonical (or anyone else) has not found any good alternative so far, all 
Ubuntu conferences have used Google Hangout for years. Unfortunate yes, but 
until good alternatives are available that is what they have chosen. As I 
suggested a call with someone outside of the open source world a hangout might 
be the best way to start as it much more likely that they have used it before 
or at least will be able to easily set it up to discuss matters. At a later 
stage other means of communication might be used.

Saying that it's not an option to use anything other than free software it's 
quite narrow minded and not very productive. What you chose to use for internal 
discussions within the devel team is up to you and the team. Besides, what I 
use as a person to help someone out, who is considering trying to use open 
source, is up to me.

Surely, I would not make any promises or speak on behalf of the whole community 
or Canonical or anything. But to listen to NEC and their questions and perhaps 
point them in a direction to get answers. That's how the community works.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

fredagen den 8:e juli 2016 kl. 19:31:14 CEST, Jimmy Sjölund 
 skrev:


We could set up a 
video call or Google Hangout if you would like to discuss a bit 
more easily.


Have you joined canonical Jimmy? 
Afaik, ubuntu studio has no tools for video conference available. 

I'm no one to tell you if you should or not join efforts with NEC to help 
them free their computing, but if you do; please do so on your own behalf. 
If you want to include the team to spend time and energy in a video 
conference to help a third part, at least make sure you discuss the options 
with- and set up the tools for the team first.


Misunderstand me right, I'd love to see you point us to existing tools or 
set freesoftware video conferences up so that the devel team can discuss 
internal issues more easily. However, hangouts or skype are no options.


*Set


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Jimmy Sjölund]

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 16:58, Devin <'pikur...@yahoo.com'> wrote:
I am just doing my best to get a feel for my options, and it is a little
awkward (for me) doing it all through email. We could set up a video call or 
Google Hangout if you would like to discuss a bit more easily.


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Devin]

On 07/08/2016 02:29 AM, Jimmy Sjölund wrote:
>> Also I still think that a clear, "official-ish" message from the
>> > core team of Ubuntu Studio would be a great asset. So far, I have
>> > been telling people that "If NEC students provide bug reports,
>> > Ubuntu developers will respond to fix them". Does that sound
>> > correct?
>> >
> No, it doesn't sound correct. We are a small team of volunteers working
> for the love of Art under the Ubuntu (canonical) umbrella, and we
> haven't given you any such promises. Have you talked to Canonical? They
> are the only ones that may pronounce themselves on this level. The
> Ubuntu Studio developer team is dedicated to package multimedia software
> into an Ubuntu flavor for multimedia production. You *cannot* expect
> Ubuntu _Studio_ to prioritize your schools matter over any other user.

Understood!

I have now contacted Canonical and am awaiting a response.

Thanks,
Devin


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Devin]

On 07/08/2016 05:12 AM, Set Sakrecoer wrote:
> 
> I believe that, when you take your condition in your own hands, things
> happen twice: once in the mind and than in reality. But if what happens
> in the mind is based on clouds, the happening in reality cannot take
> place on earth. :)
> 
> Rest assured i am personally 700% enthusiastic about your plan.

Thank you!

I am just doing my best to get a feel for my options, and it is a little
awkward (for me) doing it all through email. Of course I want to be
realistic about it--if I am not, it defeats the purpose of even trying.
That being said, I have to be a little outgoing in my efforts, otherwise
the status quo will remain persistent.

Thanks for pointing me to the right direction!

Devin

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Sakrecoer]

On 2016-07-08 03:37, Devin wrote:

On 07/07/2016 05:58 PM, Set Hallstrom wrote:

Also I still think that a clear, "official-ish" message from the
> core team of Ubuntu Studio would be a great asset. So far, I have
> been telling people that "If NEC students provide bug reports,
> Ubuntu developers will respond to fix them". Does that sound
> correct?
>
No, it doesn't sound correct. We are a small team of volunteers 
working

for the love of Art under the Ubuntu (canonical) umbrella, and we
haven't given you any such promises. Have you talked to Canonical?


Okay, I get it now. Thanks!

I am trying to get in contact with Canonical.

It is just that the "Studio" in Ubuntu Studio is a much more promising
sell for a music school that is generally fearful of venturing into the
unfamiliar world of technology.

I will start communicating with Canonical about partnership stuff. 
Thanks!


If I get students, I will say that they can join the Ubuntu Studio
community and show them where to go (mail list, IRC, website)--I think 
I

can promise that (with no other promises).



Hi Devin!

Glad to see you got me alright. Crossing fingers for you! It may be 
something benefiting for US too anyways if canonical gets motivated in 
helping out a little closer to the flavor. And your students are welcome 
to join the community.


I feel i came off a little harsh because I thought better safe than 
sorry. I would have hated to see you come out wrong in your own context, 
there for i put my foot down harder than maybe necessary, to make sure 
your thing would not be build upon false positives. What would have 
happened to your word if a student relying on a bug fix to meet a 
deadline realizes that bug is not likely to be fixed sometime soon? But 
like Jimmy says, we will most likely respond, just like we respond to 
any bug repports. We can just not guarantee fixes or determine deadlines 
for the fixes.


I believe that, when you take your condition in your own hands, things 
happen twice: once in the mind and than in reality. But if what happens 
in the mind is based on clouds, the happening in reality cannot take 
place on earth. :)


Rest assured i am personally 700% enthusiastic about your plan.

Stay creative!

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Jimmy Sjölund]

 Original Message 

Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in 
Partnering with New England Conservatory?
Local Time: July 7, 2016 11:58 PM
UTC Time: July 7, 2016 9:58 PM
From: s...@ubuntustudio.org
To: ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Also I still think that a clear, "official-ish" message from the
> core team of Ubuntu Studio would be a great asset. So far, I have
> been telling people that "If NEC students provide bug reports,
> Ubuntu developers will respond to fix them". Does that sound
> correct?
>

No, it doesn't sound correct. We are a small team of volunteers working
for the love of Art under the Ubuntu (canonical) umbrella, and we
haven't given you any such promises. Have you talked to Canonical? They
are the only ones that may pronounce themselves on this level. The
Ubuntu Studio developer team is dedicated to package multimedia software
into an Ubuntu flavor for multimedia production. You *cannot* expect
Ubuntu _Studio_ to prioritize your schools matter over any other user.

It is sort of correct. If you file a bug, if anyone file a bug, an Ubuntu 
developer will take a look and evaluate. There is no guarantee the bug will be 
fixed, just as for anyone, and it will most likely not be anyone in the Ubuntu 
Studio team as most of the current members are not developers. However, we and 
the Ubuntu flavours work to get bug fixed by getting help upstream either in 
Ubuntu or even Debian. The great thing by using open source is that NEC can 
also help out solving bugs, by reporting them, testing or even contribute to 
the code (if possible).

So, IMHO, if NEC students provide bug reports Ubuntu contributors will respond. 
I can't make any promises about fixes though and prioritization is done 
concerning the bug itself, how many are affected etc, not depending on who does 
the actual report. There won't be any special process for handling bugs from 
NEC. If NEC students and employees would become active in the communities you 
have greater possibilities to make your wishes and needs heard and be able to 
bring changes forward.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Devin]

On 07/07/2016 05:58 PM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
>> Also I still think that a clear, "official-ish" message from the
>> > core team of Ubuntu Studio would be a great asset. So far, I have
>> > been telling people that "If NEC students provide bug reports,
>> > Ubuntu developers will respond to fix them". Does that sound
>> > correct?
>> > 
> No, it doesn't sound correct. We are a small team of volunteers working
> for the love of Art under the Ubuntu (canonical) umbrella, and we
> haven't given you any such promises. Have you talked to Canonical?

Okay, I get it now. Thanks!

I am trying to get in contact with Canonical.

It is just that the "Studio" in Ubuntu Studio is a much more promising
sell for a music school that is generally fearful of venturing into the
unfamiliar world of technology.

I will start communicating with Canonical about partnership stuff. Thanks!

If I get students, I will say that they can join the Ubuntu Studio
community and show them where to go (mail list, IRC, website)--I think I
can promise that (with no other promises).

Thank you!
Devin

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[lukefromdc]

Maybe they should be reminded that they are using Linux every
time they connect to a webserver, fire up an Android phone, or
even use some embedded systems.  In some markets MS has
little more market share than Apple had in 1999-and even OSx
is just a proprietary Unix with a custom DE and window system;

On 7/7/2016 at 9:31 PM, "Devin"  wrote:
>
>On 07/07/2016 09:16 PM, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
>> Why on Earth are they first going out of their way to buy Ubuntu 
>machines,
>> then installing Windows?
>
>When I asked, they said it is b/c those machines are cheaper. They
>already have a school license with Windows (perhaps 500 machines 
>or so)
>and they just use that to install school-wide on the (cheaper) 
>Ubuntu
>machines.
>
>Yeah, I think it is insane.
>
>What is making this even more difficult is the IT team has no idea 
>what
>GNU/Linux is--the guy said, "yeah, [One thing I regret as part of 
>my
>profession is that] I don't really know much about Linux."
>
>So, these people have gone their whole lives/careers without much
>hacking AT. ALL.
>
>...so, I am doing my best to get them up to speed. I gave them a 
>little
>GNU history lesson to begin with.
>
>Devin
>
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>
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Devin]

On 07/07/2016 09:16 PM, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> Why on Earth are they first going out of their way to buy Ubuntu machines,
> then installing Windows?

When I asked, they said it is b/c those machines are cheaper. They
already have a school license with Windows (perhaps 500 machines or so)
and they just use that to install school-wide on the (cheaper) Ubuntu
machines.

Yeah, I think it is insane.

What is making this even more difficult is the IT team has no idea what
GNU/Linux is--the guy said, "yeah, [One thing I regret as part of my
profession is that] I don't really know much about Linux."

So, these people have gone their whole lives/careers without much
hacking AT. ALL.

...so, I am doing my best to get them up to speed. I gave them a little
GNU history lesson to begin with.

Devin

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[lukefromdc]

Why on Earth are they first going out of their way to buy Ubuntu machines,
then installing Windows? Is it an attempt to avoid preinstalled crapware or
vendor-provided malicious extras perhaps?  Maybe the Lenovo crapware
with UEFI driven reinstallation got their attention and they simply don't
want any vendor provided OS? Hell, with some vendors if you want to run
Linux starting with Windows machines might be safer for the same reason,
save for the risk of getting unbootable crap.

On 7/7/2016 at 5:58 PM, "Set Hallstrom"  wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>On 2016-07-07 23:15, Devin Ulibarri wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> This is my update:
>> 
>> I just found out that the IT team at New England Conservatory 
>(NEC) 
>> is purchasing DELL computers with "Ubuntu" pre-installed, but 
>wiping 
>> their hard drives and installing Windows instead.
>> 
>> The IT team said they are willing to consider making some 
>computers 
>> available with Ubuntu (or Ubuntu Studio) on them, but they need 
>a 
>> educational reason before they commit themselves to providing 
>these 
>> computers to NEC.
>> 
>> I am working with other teachers to see if we can bring Ubuntu
>> Studio to the school.
>> 
>> Also I still think that a clear, "official-ish" message from the
>> core team of Ubuntu Studio would be a great asset. So far, I have
>> been telling people that "If NEC students provide bug reports,
>> Ubuntu developers will respond to fix them". Does that sound
>> correct?
>> 
>
>No, it doesn't sound correct. We are a small team of volunteers 
>working
>for the love of Art under the Ubuntu (canonical) umbrella, and we
>haven't given you any such promises. Have you talked to Canonical? 
>They
>are the only ones that may pronounce themselves on this level. The
>Ubuntu Studio developer team is dedicated to package multimedia 
>software
>into an Ubuntu flavor for multimedia production. You *cannot* 
>expect
>Ubuntu _Studio_ to prioritize your schools matter over any other 
>user.
>
>> Is there anything else I can add without over-reaching any 
>promises?
>
>I'm sorry if i wasn't clear enough when i wrote to you On 2016-05-
>30
>09:17, Set Hallstrom wrote:
>> 
>>> TBH our "brand" belongs to Canonical. Hence we cannot provide 
>you 
>>> with any such support officially without the benediction of 
>>> Canonical. So if you need the backup of a corporation, your 
>best 
>>> bet is to talk to canonical directly. But like Autumna says, it 
>>> isn't necessary. After all GNU/Linux is (not limited to, but 
>also)
>>>  about computing /by/ the people /for/ the people.
>>> 
>
>If you want to use Ubuntu Studio in your classes, you are welcome 
>to do
>so on your own behalf. If you expect official statements and 
>support
>guarantees, please reach out to Canonical.
>http://partners.ubuntu.com/contact-us
>
>However, and *no promisses attached* , i will personaly try my 
>best to
>forward your intentions in order to put you on the right path 
>within
>that organisation.
>
>-- 
>Set Hallstrom aka sakrecoer


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

Hi,

On 2016-07-07 23:15, Devin Ulibarri wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> This is my update:
> 
> I just found out that the IT team at New England Conservatory (NEC) 
> is purchasing DELL computers with "Ubuntu" pre-installed, but wiping 
> their hard drives and installing Windows instead.
> 
> The IT team said they are willing to consider making some computers 
> available with Ubuntu (or Ubuntu Studio) on them, but they need a 
> educational reason before they commit themselves to providing these 
> computers to NEC.
> 
> I am working with other teachers to see if we can bring Ubuntu
> Studio to the school.
> 
> Also I still think that a clear, "official-ish" message from the
> core team of Ubuntu Studio would be a great asset. So far, I have
> been telling people that "If NEC students provide bug reports,
> Ubuntu developers will respond to fix them". Does that sound
> correct?
> 

No, it doesn't sound correct. We are a small team of volunteers working
for the love of Art under the Ubuntu (canonical) umbrella, and we
haven't given you any such promises. Have you talked to Canonical? They
are the only ones that may pronounce themselves on this level. The
Ubuntu Studio developer team is dedicated to package multimedia software
into an Ubuntu flavor for multimedia production. You *cannot* expect
Ubuntu _Studio_ to prioritize your schools matter over any other user.

> Is there anything else I can add without over-reaching any promises?

I'm sorry if i wasn't clear enough when i wrote to you On 2016-05-30
09:17, Set Hallstrom wrote:
> 
>> TBH our "brand" belongs to Canonical. Hence we cannot provide you 
>> with any such support officially without the benediction of 
>> Canonical. So if you need the backup of a corporation, your best 
>> bet is to talk to canonical directly. But like Autumna says, it 
>> isn't necessary. After all GNU/Linux is (not limited to, but also)
>>  about computing /by/ the people /for/ the people.
>> 

If you want to use Ubuntu Studio in your classes, you are welcome to do
so on your own behalf. If you expect official statements and support
guarantees, please reach out to Canonical.
http://partners.ubuntu.com/contact-us

However, and *no promisses attached* , i will personaly try my best to
forward your intentions in order to put you on the right path within
that organisation.

-- 
Set Hallstrom aka sakrecoer



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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Devin Ulibarri]

Hi,

This is my update:

I just found out that the IT team at New England Conservatory (NEC) is
purchasing DELL computers with "Ubuntu" pre-installed, but wiping their hard 
drives
and installing Windows instead. The IT team said they are willing to
consider making some computers available with Ubuntu (or Ubuntu Studio) on 
them, but they
need a educational reason before they commit themselves to providing
these computers to NEC.

I am working with other teachers to see if we can bring Ubuntu Studio to the 
school.

Also I still think that a clear, "official-ish" message from the core team of 
Ubuntu Studio would be a great asset. So far, I have been telling people that 
"If NEC students provide bug reports, Ubuntu developers will respond to fix 
them". Does that sound correct? Is there anything else I can add without 
over-reaching any promises?

Thanks again!
Devin



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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 30 May 2016 09:17:01 +0200, Set Hallstrom wrote:
>In your case, you don't really need to install a development release,
>since you will probably be more interested in documenting your process.
>And for that we can offer you to use our wiki. All you need for that is
>a launchpad account.

Hi Set,

the Ubuntu One/Launchpad Account is not all you need to edit the Help
Wiki, you additionally need to register to a group. It's explained by
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide#Contributing .

>To allow your students to feedback and report bugs, they will also need
>a launchpad account.

I doubt that artists should subscribe to launchpad, they even might not
have root privileges and perhaps want to use the computer and not
report bugs. Artist should join the user communities. Most computer
users nowadays are used to forums, but it doesn't take long to prefer
mailing lists over forums.

Actually subscribing to
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
is all they need to do.

However, it's not required, but could be useful to join additional
mailing lists.

Regarding general requests about Ubuntu user space
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users

Regarding general request about the default Ubuntu Studio desktop
environment
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-users

Regarding general support for Linux audio
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user

Most important software projects provide their project specific mailing
list. Sometimes the development lists are for users too, e.g. for
Qtractor.

Ubuntu provides a list "between" the Ubuntu developer and user lists,
the development discuss list. This list might not be from interest for
students, but likely for the original poster
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

>trying to make it fun for the tech-team

It could be fun, but not necessarily is fun for computer experts. It's
better to point this out, to avoid unpleasant surprises. You should
assume that staff of tech-teams is used to work with Linux distros, BSD
and similar unixoid operating systems, but they are not necessarily
used to the Ubuntu attitude, e.g. the unusual usage of the bug tracker.
Anyway, one argument to reduce concerns of tech-teams and school
administration is to point out hat Ubuntu (Studio) provides "Long Term
Support" releases, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS .

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

As usual, Autumna comes with some really pertinent and well put ideas.

> On 2016-05-29 21:31, Devin Ulibarri wrote:
>> Main question is, as I look for ways to bring free software (and
>> free culture) to NEC, can I count on the backing/support of the
>> Ubuntu Studio team? If so, I will look for grants etc. with this in
>> mind.
> 

TBH our "brand" belongs to Canonical. Hence we cannot provide you
with any such support officially without the benediction of Canonical.
So if you need the backup of a corporation, your best bet is to talk to
canonical directly. But like Autumna says, it isn't necessary. After all
GNU/Linux is (not limited to, but also) about computing /by/ the people
/for/ the people.

On 2016-05-29 16:15, Devin Ulibarri wrote:

>>> I would *not* ask for work that distracts you from the goal of
>>> development.
>>>
>>> I think just some "veil of support" would be enough--just a
>>> general backing of the idea and permission to go to the higher
>>> ups at the school and tell them that we have the backing of
>>> "Ubuntu Studio". They will not recognize the name, so it will be
>>> up to convince them that this is big opportunity for NEC.

You can count on our support to the extend that any user can.
Furthermore, you can attract some of us to get a personal interest in
your goals. But be careful of how you present Ubuntu Studio as your
candidate distribution to your deans: we are cherishing our
transparency, it would take very little research to understand the
actual size of our organization. So again, if you feel you really need a
corporate spine in your presentation; talk to canonical directly. You
can however feel free to present U-S as the distribution of choice for
your project, and you don't need any special permission to do that AFAIK.

>>> I had a difficult time wording the above, but one of the benefits
>>> for an institution like NEC in the world of free software as I
>>> can see it is the potential for leaving a greater legacy. So,
>>> under a free license, yes no one makes royalties, but the name of
>>> the original author is spread far and wide (e.g. Richard
>>> Stallman, Linus Torvalds, etc). So, if , the musicians of NEC
>>> were to help with what they could help with (I think recording
>>> sound fonts, mainly), then what they would get in return would be
>>> acknowledgement for being the one who created the "awesome sound
>>> font". (Additionally, if I did this aforementioned project of 
>>> sound fonts, I would fund it with a grant to pay the musicians a 
>>> one-time stipend for their work. If I did not get grant funding
>>> to pay musicians the one time fee, I would not do it. So, this
>>> plan/dream is contingent on possible grant funding.)

If you chose a Creative Commons license that caries Attribution, the
name of the licensor will remain.

 Change is scary for many, and a change in OS is ultimately
 vowed to put the current computer administrators of your school
 in a position where they are going to feel threatened: what
 will they do if their skill-sets become obsolete? A good way
 forward could be to find a way to include them into this change
 and to engage any eventual detractor into a constructive
 process. How to do that, i don't really know yet but i'd gladly
 brainstorm with you about it. :)
>>> This is the potential issue I *really do* worry about. Our tech
>>> team is not one for change or taking risks. Therefore, I think I
>>> really need to get it right with the higher-ups of the school
>>> (they can tell the IT team that this is an education-based
>>> decision, which would trump their complaints).
>>> 
>>> Strategically, if we try to bring the OS into NEC on the ground,
>>> I would propose to start with a "one computer" program where we
>>> have one computer running Ubuntu Studio in each of the two
>>> computer lab (small school). I could also get help from MIT,
>>> which the admin would appreciate because it would be a good
>>> partnership.

I would keep that trump as a last resort and begin by trying to make it
fun for the tech-team. I reckon they wouldn't want to allow an ubuntu
studio computer to log into their LAN. So, why not set-up a lan just for
the project? The students could use a bootable USB which is very much
like regular installation except it doesn't change anything to the
students computer. They could then collaboratively save their work on
the LAN you set up. A raspi with a wifi dongle would be enough for that,
and with a little luck, some of the tech-team actually have fun solving
this kind of technical challenges. :)

 Last but not least: we are open for you to become a part of
 Ubuntu Studio. [snip]
>>> Okay, just let me know what you need.

We need you to fulfill these steps:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/JoinTheTeam

In your case, you don't really need to install a development release,
since you will probably be more interested in documenting your process.
And for that we can offer you to 

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[lukefromdc]

A "Monsanto sound font" could simply create the sound of someone dying and
falling off the toilet from terminal diarrhea with their last words being a 
reference
to corn chips.

On 5/29/2016 at 9:18 AM, "Ralf Mardorf"  wrote:
>
>On Sun, 29 May 2016 15:15:47 +0300, autumna wrote:
>>Unlike a nestle soundfont where somebody else would be creating 
>the
>>soundfont, the New England conservatory would be actually making 
>the
>>said soundfont.
>
>I mentioned the monsanto-sound-font and nestle-sound-font 
>regarding a
>discrepancy with the humanist philosophy of Ubuntu.
>
>http://www.sigwatch.com/ isn't the measure of all things, anyway, 
>number
>2 is Monsanto and number 5 is Nestle. Apart from this chart show, 
>many
>people most likely consider those two companies to some of the
>most dangerous criminals on this planet, especial regarding crimes
>against humanity, ethics.
>
>There unlikely is such a discrepancy with the New England 
>conservatory,
>but at some point any cooperation with for-profit organisations 
>becomes
>borderline. However, if they should provide a sound-font, unlikely
>anybody would be against including it to a repository, if it fits 
>to
>the Debian/Ubuntu Creative Commons requirements and the sound font
>should provide useful sounds. Hence my question, if somebody from 
>this
>conservatory already could provide such a sound font.
>
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[brian]

  

Yes; but you don't need to be logged in to see the thread. 

Go to
linuxmusicians.com and to the "samplers and samples" subforum. It's
about the 12th thread down. 

brian 

On Sun, 29 May 2016 12:57:42
+0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: 

> On Sun, 29 May 2016 12:53:46 +0200,
br...@linuxsynths.com [1]wrote:
> 
>> Strange.. Try this: SFZ [3] (It
works for me.)
> 
> The same issue. Are you registered and logged in?

 


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Devin Ulibarri]

On 05/29/2016 04:32 AM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
> Dreams, ideas and visions are the mandatory ingredients to any change.
> Many of us share this dream with you, i for one do. It is a steep path
> upwards you are taking, but i believe it is absolutely possible to reach
> your goal! Or put differently, thanks for reviving that hopeful nerve in
> me by reaching out to the list like this :)
Wonderful. :)
> Ubuntu and ultimately Ubuntu Studio is backed by Canonical [1]. Before i
> got involved in the project, i turned to Ubuntu Studio with a similar
> vision to yours [2], thinking that there would be lots of potential,
> energy and will available. But now that i have insight i must inform you
> that, while all those ingredients are here, Ubuntu Studio in itself is
> _very_ small team. 
I realize that you are backed by Canonical and a small team.
> In fact, as the team looks right now, if we dedicated
> ourselves to a project like you are proposing, we would have little to
> no time to release new versions. Please rest assured i am not trying to
> discourage you, but i also have to be realistic. Most of the team
> resides in Europe ATM, it might not be much of a problem thanks to how
> Internet works, but meeting with the president/deans of your school will
> become logistically difficult. Especially if there is no promise of
> outcome yet. However, i am sure that if you can arrange such a meeting
> in a way that would allow some of us to go ±0 on expenses, many of us
> will come with pleasure.
I would *not* ask for work that distracts you from the goal of development.

I think just some "veil of support" would be enough--just a general
backing of the idea and permission to go to the higher ups at the school
and tell them that we have the backing of "Ubuntu Studio". They will not
recognize the name, so it will be up to convince them that this is big
opportunity for NEC.
>> > Things NEC would be interested in:
>> > * Pedagogical Implications (I can help with this greatly. I helped
>> > develop Music Blocks software with Sugar Labs, for example. 
>> > musicblocks.net)
>> > * Price savings (of course)
>> > * Having their name on something (maybe copyright on some sound-fonts
>> > that faculty help to create)
>> > * A greater association that their school is "with the times" tech-wise
>> > (unlike Berklee, NEC is stuck in middle-ages tech-wise and struggles
>> > with its image in this area to a great degree)
> All this is nice and probably achievable. I would be very prudent with
> what kind of copyright you want to involve and how you present it.
> Copyright is a seemingly vague yet scalpel sharp but strange legal
> territory. FOSS and GNU/Linux is forged in a quite new and
> ground-breaking vision of how copyright should operate. I'm underlining
> this because how you let them
>> > * Having their name on something
> could have very counter productive effects on your plan, or make it
> plain incompatible with FOSS on a legal level.

I had a difficult time wording the above, but one of the benefits for an
institution like NEC in the world of free software as I can see it is
the potential for leaving a greater legacy. So, under a free license,
yes no one makes royalties, but the name of the original author is
spread far and wide (e.g. Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds, etc). So, if
, the musicians of NEC were to help with what they could help with (I
think recording sound fonts, mainly), then what they would get in return
would be acknowledgement for being the one who created the "awesome
sound font". (Additionally, if I did this aforementioned project of
sound fonts, I would fund it with a grant to pay the musicians a
one-time stipend for their work. If I did not get grant funding to pay
musicians the one time fee, I would not do it. So, this plan/dream is
contingent on possible grant funding.)
>> > 
>> > Any Additional thoughts? Is this a project that Ubuntu Studio would be
>> > interested in taking on?
> Change is scary for many, and a change in OS is ultimately vowed to put
> the current computer administrators of your school in a position where
> they are going to feel threatened: what will they do if their skill-sets
> become obsolete? A good way forward could be to find a way to include
> them into this change and to engage any eventual detractor into a
> constructive process. How to do that, i don't really know yet but i'd
> gladly brainstorm with you about it. :)
This is the potential issue I *really do* worry about. Our tech team is
not one for change or taking risks. Therefore, I think I really need to
get it right with the higher-ups of the school (they can tell the IT
team that this is an education-based decision, which would trump their
complaints).

Strategically, if we try to bring the OS into NEC on the ground, I would
propose to start with a "one computer" program where we have one
computer running Ubuntu Studio in each of the two computer lab (small
school). I could also get help from MIT, which the 

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 29 May 2016 15:15:47 +0300, autumna wrote:
>Unlike a nestle soundfont where somebody else would be creating the
>soundfont, the New England conservatory would be actually making the
>said soundfont.

I mentioned the monsanto-sound-font and nestle-sound-font regarding a
discrepancy with the humanist philosophy of Ubuntu.

http://www.sigwatch.com/ isn't the measure of all things, anyway, number
2 is Monsanto and number 5 is Nestle. Apart from this chart show, many
people most likely consider those two companies to some of the
most dangerous criminals on this planet, especial regarding crimes
against humanity, ethics.

There unlikely is such a discrepancy with the New England conservatory,
but at some point any cooperation with for-profit organisations becomes
borderline. However, if they should provide a sound-font, unlikely
anybody would be against including it to a repository, if it fits to
the Debian/Ubuntu Creative Commons requirements and the sound font
should provide useful sounds. Hence my question, if somebody from this
conservatory already could provide such a sound font.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[autumna]

I have been part of partnerships and similar things involving students 
contributing to open source, or using them. This is actually not as hard 
as everyone is making it to be. :D To me important things are:


1) Ubuntu studio wouldn't have their label (obviously)
2) they could contribute (as already said) sound files and works that 
are labeled to be NES, as well as tutorials. (MOOCs or videos of 
lectures anyone?) Assuming everything being creative commons. preferably 
CC-SA. I don't see that as advertisement. Unlike a nestle soundfont 
where somebody else would be creating the soundfont, the New England 
conservatory would be actually making the said soundfont.
3) Their students can have experience creating music that is in creative 
commons, and optionally give feedback and file bugs so that contributing 
back to the community is part of the experience.
4) I assume the whole talking to the dean, aspect that they see this as 
a making a business deal with a commercial company to use their 
software. In this case, it is completely unnecessary. Ubuntu studio is 
open source and free. They don't need to make a business deal with us to 
use it.
5) I do actually wonder if this couldn't begin small. E.g. one class on 
open source music software, then gradually move from there, rather than 
trying to switch suddenly. (If I am understanding this correctly)


Just some thoughts on the topic.

autumna

On 05/29/2016 12:18 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Sun, 29 May 2016 10:32:33 +0200, Set Hallstrom wrote:

FOSS and GNU/Linux is forged in a quite new and
ground-breaking vision of how copyright should operate. I'm underlining
this because how you let them

* Having their name on something

could have very counter productive effects on your plan, or make it
plain incompatible with FOSS on a legal level.

Copyright could mean Creative Commons copyright licenses. I didn't
reply on Friday, but read the OP's mail and read both, the Debian and
Ubuntu policies regarding creative commons requirements, for e.g. sound
fonts. The copyright shouldn't be an issue, if just the name should be
mentioned, e.g. new-england-conservatory-sound-font. Camouflaged
advertising might be an issue or at least ethical aspects could be
a problem, I doubt that monsanto-sound-font or nestle-sound-font are
wanted, but a new-england-conservatory-sound-font might be ok.

However, is there such a sound font already available?

Data bases with sounds could be helpful, but there are already several
data bases with needed sounds available and nobody has the time to make
a sound font from the available sounds.

I'm not an Ubuntu (Studio) team member, just interested in sharing
help, software, whatsoever ...

Has anybody ever made a sound font? If so, what software did you use
to make the sound font?

Regards,
Ralf




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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[brian]

  

Strange.. 

Try this: SFZ [3]  

(It works for me.) 

brian 

On
Sun, 29 May 2016 12:15:10 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: 

> On Sun, 29 May
2016 11:54:02 +0200, br...@linuxsynths.com [2]wrote:
> 
>>
Samples-to-SFZ https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=50
[1]=15637=70582=sfz#p70582
> 
> Hi,
> 
> the link results in
"The requested topic does not exist".
> 
> Regards,
> Ralf

 


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mailto:br...@linuxsynths.com
[3]
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=50|+|amp|+|t=15637
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 29 May 2016 11:54:02 +0200, br...@linuxsynths.com wrote:
>Samples-to-SFZ 
>https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=50|+|amp|+|t=15637|+|amp|+|p=70582|+|amp|+|hilit=sfz#p70582

Hi,

the link results in "The requested topic does not exist".

Regards,
Ralf




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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 29 May 2016 10:32:33 +0200, Set Hallstrom wrote:
>FOSS and GNU/Linux is forged in a quite new and
>ground-breaking vision of how copyright should operate. I'm underlining
>this because how you let them
>> * Having their name on something  
>could have very counter productive effects on your plan, or make it
>plain incompatible with FOSS on a legal level.

Copyright could mean Creative Commons copyright licenses. I didn't
reply on Friday, but read the OP's mail and read both, the Debian and
Ubuntu policies regarding creative commons requirements, for e.g. sound
fonts. The copyright shouldn't be an issue, if just the name should be
mentioned, e.g. new-england-conservatory-sound-font. Camouflaged
advertising might be an issue or at least ethical aspects could be
a problem, I doubt that monsanto-sound-font or nestle-sound-font are
wanted, but a new-england-conservatory-sound-font might be ok.

However, is there such a sound font already available?

Data bases with sounds could be helpful, but there are already several
data bases with needed sounds available and nobody has the time to make
a sound font from the available sounds.

I'm not an Ubuntu (Studio) team member, just interested in sharing
help, software, whatsoever ...

Has anybody ever made a sound font? If so, what software did you use
to make the sound font?

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

Hi Devin Ulibarri!

On 2016-05-27 21:38, Devin Ulibarri wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am a music teacher and one of my gigs is teaching for New England
> Conservatory (NEC) in Boston, MA.
> 
> I dream of bringing free/libre software to the school for a number of
> reasons, and am coming up with a strategy for what would be most
> effective. My thought is a partnership of some sort between Ubuntu
> Studio and NEC might be worth looking into. My colleagues are willing to
> listen to me an the idealogical reasons why bringing software libre to
> the school would be nice, but the conversation always ends with "Okay,
> that was a great talk, but now what? How do we actualize all these great
> ideas you preach?"
> 
> Does anyone have ideas on how to do this?

Dreams, ideas and visions are the mandatory ingredients to any change.
Many of us share this dream with you, i for one do. It is a steep path
upwards you are taking, but i believe it is absolutely possible to reach
your goal! Or put differently, thanks for reviving that hopeful nerve in
me by reaching out to the list like this :)

> 
> If we can get a game plan together, I am confident that I could get an
> in-person meeting with the president or one of the deans at the school.
> 

Ubuntu and ultimately Ubuntu Studio is backed by Canonical [1]. Before i
got involved in the project, i turned to Ubuntu Studio with a similar
vision to yours [2], thinking that there would be lots of potential,
energy and will available. But now that i have insight i must inform you
that, while all those ingredients are here, Ubuntu Studio in itself is
_very_ small team. In fact, as the team looks right now, if we dedicated
ourselves to a project like you are proposing, we would have little to
no time to release new versions. Please rest assured i am not trying to
discourage you, but i also have to be realistic. Most of the team
resides in Europe ATM, it might not be much of a problem thanks to how
Internet works, but meeting with the president/deans of your school will
become logistically difficult. Especially if there is no promise of
outcome yet. However, i am sure that if you can arrange such a meeting
in a way that would allow some of us to go +/-0 on expenses, many of us
will come with pleasure.

> Things NEC would be interested in:
> * Pedagogical Implications (I can help with this greatly. I helped
> develop Music Blocks software with Sugar Labs, for example. musicblocks.net)
> * Price savings (of course)
> * Having their name on something (maybe copyright on some sound-fonts
> that faculty help to create)
> * A greater association that their school is "with the times" tech-wise
> (unlike Berklee, NEC is stuck in middle-ages tech-wise and struggles
> with its image in this area to a great degree)

All this is nice and probably achievable. I would be very prudent with
what kind of copyright you want to involve and how you present it.
Copyright is a seemingly vague yet scalpel sharp but strange legal
territory. FOSS and GNU/Linux is forged in a quite new and
ground-breaking vision of how copyright should operate. I'm underlining
this because how you let them
> * Having their name on something
could have very counter productive effects on your plan, or make it
plain incompatible with FOSS on a legal level.

> 
> Any Additional thoughts? Is this a project that Ubuntu Studio would be
> interested in taking on?

Change is scary for many, and a change in OS is ultimately vowed to put
the current computer administrators of your school in a position where
they are going to feel threatened: what will they do if their skill-sets
become obsolete? A good way forward could be to find a way to include
them into this change and to engage any eventual detractor into a
constructive process. How to do that, i don't really know yet but i'd
gladly brainstorm with you about it. :)
When it comes to:
> * Price savings
Put the numbers flat on paper for your people to see.

Last but not least: we are open for you to become a part of Ubuntu
Studio.[3] We can provide you with a like-minded community, tools,
brain-craft, encouragements, ideas and a platform to shape and sharpen
your plan. Basically what i am saying is that you could become a member
of the PR-[4] and documentation teams, working on a master-strategy for
the implementation of Ubuntu Studio in schools.

> 
> Thanks,
> Devin
> 

Welcome to Ubuntu Studio Devin! And feel free to bounce ideas here!

-- 
Set Hallstrom aka sakrecoer

[1] http://www.canonical.com/
[2]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-users/2013-November/009665.html
[3]
https://ubuntustudio.org/2015/11/want-to-help-making-ubuntu-studio-a-great-os-for-creative-humans/
[4] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-public-relations
[5] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-documentation



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