Re: activation and login broken?

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Something is wrong... We are looking into it now.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 02/02/2024, 19:56, "use-livecode on behalf of David Wood via use-livecode" 
mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


Same here


In my case just on Mac but also as you say trying to log into the Livecode 
website.


> On 3/02/2024, at 8:24 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> hmmm. i just tried to fire up LC on both mac and pc. i ran into an
> activation dialog, so i tried to log in, and got an error. so, i tried to
> log into the livecode website, and hit the same thing.
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
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Re: We lost an Angle

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

So very sorry to hear that Ralph. My thoughts are with you.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 11/01/2024, 01:54, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via 
use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


Many of you knew Margaret from the conferences. We lost her today. She spent
her life as a nurse in the oncology department. She gave her love and
empathy to all her patients. She was so full of life and gave it a gallant
try, but was not to be. We just celebrated our 40th anniversary in December.


You all were so kind and welcoming to her. I thank you for that.






Ralph DiMola


IT Director


Evergreen Information Services


rdim...@evergreeninfo.net <mailto:rdim...@evergreeninfo.net>


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Re: Training the AI to write better LiveCode

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Ethics are very important to me as you know. I'm a passionate believer in 
working to increase fairness as we grow and evolve as a species. We're making 
great progress at that at the moment. For example, the number of people living 
in extreme poverty globally has more than halved in the last 20 years. Over 
half of the world's population has a smartphone, giving them access to what 
would once have been a supercomputer, and an online world that just 25 years 
ago the majority could not access.

I think it takes time after something new emerges before we sort out the 
societal implications fully. Such implications are rarely well understood at 
the start. I don't think the questions these lawsuits raise have easy answers. 
It certainly does not seem clear cut to me on reading them what is even right 
or in the ultimate best interests of artists, creators or our species. I would 
need to dig into this for a lot longer to truly form an opinion.

I don't underestimate the potential for technology to continue at breath-taking 
rate and solve the problem of writing in assembler. I get the exponential 
growth of technology and the improvements of algorithms that lead to further 
growths - in fact I'm quite excited about it. I'm just not sure that this is a 
problem that really needs solved next. We already have a technology that takes 
human readable code and creates machine instructions, i.e. compliers. Until 
technology completely eliminates humans in the making of software (which may of 
course happen one day) I don't think we need to worry (too much!) about the 
exit of scripting languages. It's a useful medium for a human to understand and 
edit in until such time as we are truly defunct. If and when that happens I 
doubt there will be any sort of jobs in any industry.

We also have to be careful we don't try to cut off our nose to spite our face. 
Leaving a language like ours behind in the dust rather than finding ways to 
work with new opportunities like this one is a high price to pay, particularly 
as such a protest would have little or no impact on the course of the evolution 
of such technology. Obviously we need to stand up for our rights as we go 
forward, I am not advocating sticking our collective heads in the sand. This 
could go in a negative direction, particularly depending on who owns it and has 
access to it and we can re-evaluate things if necessary in the future.

As to the first industrial revolution, I think it's easy to forget what it was 
actually like to live a couple of hundred years ago compared to now. I'm with 
Geoff, overall it came out extremely well. That gives one a little cautious 
optimism that the second one might also do so, though as ever the future is not 
guaranteed.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 



On 21/01/2023, 22:40, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon via 
use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


Those only interested in LiveCode, click "next" now.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 10:40 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

>
> After all, the Codex had been trained on billions of
> publicly available source code lines – including code
> in public repositories on GitHub. That included, among
> other things, all of the Apache Foundation's many
> projects' code.
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/11/githubs_copilot_opinion/ 
> <https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/11/githubs_copilot_opinion/>
>
>
> Stability Diffusion, Midjourney, and DreamUp were
> trained on copyrighted materials without credit,
> compensation, or consent, according to a new lawsuit.
>
> https://www.pcmag.com/news/artists-sue-ai-art-generators-for-copyright-infringement
>  
> <https://www.pcmag.com/news/artists-sue-ai-art-generators-for-copyright-infringement>

My not-a-lawyer understanding is that this lawsuit is almost guaranteed to
fail. Just from a conceptual perspective, human artists have access to the
same copyrighted material (albeit not the ability to ingest *all* of it)
and even the ability to mimic it for their own edification. It's the act of
publishing similar work that is problematic. And it's going to be fun for
the lawyers to sort out who's at fault if I use Stable Diffusion to create
a corporate christmas card that happens to resemble the Coca-Cola polar
bears.

> We're a very long way from attempting to write all apps in assembler
> > using this sort of AI.
>
> Are we? As late as my teens I was still reading science mags saying
> "Well, AI is going to be a big deal, but no machine will ever beat a
> human at something as complex as chess."
>
> Big Blue beat

Re: Training the AI to write better LiveCode

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

An interesting point of view. We're a very long way from attempting to write 
all apps in assembler using this sort of AI. And humans are going to want to go 
on reading, editing and understanding code to create whole programs, whether 
produced by machine or a human, for a long time yet. When AI really is advanced 
enough to be creating an entire complex program in perfect assembler I think 
the world will change in so many ways that we'll have far bigger societal 
implications to consider than just its impact on scripting languages.

At the moment I see this as potentially heading towards a position where it 
could be quite an aid to scripting languages, both in terms of learning and 
helping write code. It might also take the shine out of some no-code 
environments as its probably easier to describe what you want your code to do 
and get back some nice clear English-like instructions (LiveCode script) than 
click on 100 boxes with menus and connectors to set up actions. Used in the 
hands of a skilled programmer it may become a particularly productive 
combination.

At the end of the day, this sort of AI is clearly going to happen and get 
better -  whether it comes from OpenAI or someone else. We will have about as 
much luck stopping that as stopping a change in the weather. When the wind 
changes, it's time to adjust your sails.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 



On 20/01/2023, 19:22, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin via 
use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


If ChatGPT can write script, it can write machine code.

If it can write machine code, scripting is unnecessary.

If scripting goes, so goes scripting tools.

So before we donate much time to providing index fodder for the owners 
of ChatGPT, we might ask whether this is an investment we want to make, 
or perhaps at least ask for compensation for having provided the data 
that makes ChatGPT valuable for its owners.


-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


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Re: Training the AI to write better LiveCode

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Its far more than a search engine. It can edit copy, write articles and analyse 
multiple inputs for similarities and differences and a lot more. Like all such 
new technologies this is going to be here to stay. So its not a case of trying 
not to train it in order to preserve programmer jobs. There will be plenty left 
for a human to do in building an app, we are just going to get more productive 
as this gets better. What is important is ensuring that LiveCode, which is 
supported already, is not left behind and that you can generate LiveCode code 
at the same standard as other languages. At present its coding abilities in any 
language are interesting but a bit ropy, lets ensure that as it gets better as 
it inevitably will, its LiveCode skills improve too.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 



On 12/01/2023, 17:45, "use-livecode on behalf of harrison--- via use-livecode" 
mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


ChatGPT has been called a search engine without the search engine.
I would tend to agree with that. It seems to find bits and pieces of code
or articles that others have written before and tries to put them together.
It uses a text typing output mode to give it the appearance of an
intelligence/person typing at the keyboard, but that is part of the illusion.


ChatGPT claims that it isn’t connected to the internet, but it is, or it 
wouldn’t
be able to respond to your questions over the internet. The database
that it accesses for answers is however compartmentalized, as far as
we have been told.


If by some miracle we were able to train it to be super intelligent at
writing computer code, do we as programmers really want to shoot
ourselves in the foot by giving it the tools to replace our talent?
That’s food for thought. Just because something may be technologically
possible, doesn’t mean we should necessarily do that thing.


Just my two cents.


Enjoy your day!


Rick


> On Jan 12, 2023, at 9:02 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> yesterday was not a good session for me. all responses were irrelevant, and
> sometimes seemed random.
> we'll see what we find, the next time.


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Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

I'm sorry to hear this very sad news. Swami was a warm, helpful and 
enthusiastic member of our community for about as long as I can remember. He 
will be missed by our community and by many in the LiveCode team. Rest in peace.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 


On 25/12/2022, 17:00, "use-livecode on behalf of Andre Garzia via 
use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Dear LiveCoders,

Many of you here remember Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami (some of you met him as 
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami many years ago). Swami has always been a champion for 
LiveCode and together with other other monks in Kaua’i Hindu Monastery built 
what is probably the largest LiveCode-backed website available on the net. He’s 
been a constant fixture here on the list for many years and many here been at 
some time or another worked with him on various projects. I’m sad to say that 
Brahmanathaswami passed away this week on Hawaii. His life has been full of joy 
among his beloved monks in a paradise Island full of love and sunshine. 

I’ve worked with him there on and off for the best part of maybe 18 years 
(we’re not exactly sure when I started), he’s been a great friend and together 
we built many wondrous things with LiveCode. I’ll forever cherish those years, 
and I hope you all remember him fondly today as well.

Kind regards
Andre
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Re: A few issues with web apps

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Don't worry the goal is for zero workarounds by the time we're ready to ship 
GM. These things are just there to keep you going in the mean time.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 19/08/2022, 18:16, "use-livecode on behalf of Tweedly via use-livecode" 
 wrote:


> On 19 Aug 2022, at 16:01, panagiotis m via use-livecode 
 wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> BTW, I just wrote a lesson on how to scroll a LC text field on Web using
> :
>> 
Thank you. 
But at the risk of sounding ungrateful - please don’t.
Please just make basic functionality like resizing, scrolling, etc. Work 
properly and nicely out of the box.
Alex.

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Re: Sharing a desktop app, or with beta testers

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

While this may not be applicable in all cases, the Web deployment options in 10 
should resolve this for a great many sorts of LC apps. 

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On 26 Jan 2022, 20:40, at 20:40, Keith Martin via use-livecode 
 wrote:
>If only it was easier to do. 
>I've actually stopped using LC much because the process of making apps
>that people can run without fuss has become ridiculous. I'm still
>hoping for a solution that isn't so aggressively hostile! The current
>situation feels like a direct threat to LiveCode the company, as it
>must be putting off more than a few people from becoming or staying
>customers.
>
>k
>
>Keith Martin
>360 media specialist http://PanoramaPhotographer.com
>Contact and info http://thatkeith.com
>+44 (0)7909541365
>
>
>
>> On 26 Jan 2022, at 20:24, matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> wrote:
>> 
>> If you have an Apple Developer Account membership you could code
>sign and notarize your app. 
>> This should prevent the security issue.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>>> Am 26.01.2022 um 20:29 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode
>:
>>> 
>>> Folks:
>>> Sorry for this question which probably has been answered many times,
>but …. I’m trying not to waste my day searching around.
>>> 
>>> What’s the best way to send a desktop app on Apple OS 12.1 to a
>friend or beta tester? I sent an app and a security issue came up.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bill P
>>> 
>>> William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
>>> University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences
>(Emeritus)
>>> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
>>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
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>> 
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Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content in 
there but it has the issues you list.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 06/09/2021, 14:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Alex Tweedly via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

In the main thread, I mentioned that I found revOnline (aka "Sample 
Stacks"), but didn't say how or why. Here the answer to that ...

It has:

- no differentiation between 'libraries' and 'examples'

- it has no support for script-only stacks, which is surely the way most 
libraries will be done nowadays.

- a left hand scrolling box with ~90 'categories', in no particular 
order, no grouping

- grid vs list view - list shows you a list, which is basically the same 
as a 1-wide grid rather than 2-wide, plus a larger view of some random 
other item (OK, it's not random - it simply doesn't update when it should)

- updates when you click on the picture - but gives no cursor hint that 
you can do that

- a drop-down list for sort order - which isn't sized adequately when 
you first open revonline

- a 'search' box which must search something, but I don't know what. 
There is a sample stack called "Compare stack scripts", and which is 
tagged as "compare" - but isn't found if you search for "compare".

- and I usually find things via "browser + google" (or similar) and the 
stuff in samples stacks isn't visible that way.

H - maybe I've just found my next project :-)

Alex.


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Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

The direction is broadly the one we are following, however we are always open 
to tweaking things.

With regard to the conversation on free starter kit/ non-standalone building 
etc, I'll copy what I said on the forums:

We have dabbled with a number of low cost /entry level offerings in the past. 
There used to be a starter kit that allowed only a certain number of lines of 
code per object. We had non-standalone building products e.g. 
DreamCard/revMedia. None of these models have worked well for a long list of 
reasons - indeed they caused huge issues for us. This problem is much harder to 
solve than you might think. Will we continue to refine our entry level 
offering? Yes definitely. Specific suggestions in this area are welcome, 
particularly directly to me rather than on here.

A number of you quite successfully outlined a number of the problem we had with 
these various models in the past. I'm not going to go into it further, but 
thanks to those that contributed.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 04/09/2021, 17:48, "use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

David, thats an interesting model to bring up.
I wonder how much of this new direction is considered to be etched in
stone, and how much is up for tweaking still.  Very happy to see signs that
the team is listening to all the feedback.






On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 10:37 AM David Bovill via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The clearest example of a free-forever development licence which you pay
> for when you wish to release your app is obviously Unity 3D. I remember
> when this project was a small developer community supported by a company
> and community of keen early adopters. I asked then why Livecode Ltd didn’t
> adopt a model close to that - sure there are differences between the game
> market and Livecode’s market but still?
>
> So the question here is why not do the same here - keep a free-to-develop
> “trial version” without the compilation framework and tools. I’m curious 
to
> the reasoning. The cynic in me would say that the assumption is that there
> are too few developers in this (non-game) market who would need the
> compilation / stand-alone-builder functions - so while game developers and
> companies might pay for commercial Unity 3D licenses - that is not true 
for
> Livecode developers? I don’t / like / buy that argument - so I would love
> to here good reasons or not adopting a Unity 3D style licensing model?
>
>     Schedule a call with me
> On 3 Sep 2021, 15:07 +0100, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > What I liked about your email to me Tom was that it was extremely
> specific. You had just a handful of issues you considered absolutely key
> and offered to Zoom to show that to me. I look forward to scheduling that
> once I finish getting unburried __
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >
> > On 02/09/2021, 22:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Lagi,
> >
> > I wrote to Kevin earlier and gave the exact same advice. those exact 2
> > points needing to be addressed.
> >
> > Give long trial, fix the most obvious IDE issues ASAP.
> >
> > Without those two things how is any new developer going to join the
> > platform?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
> > > something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in
> the
> > > way
> > > so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
> > >
> > > You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an 
extension,
> > > and by the time they answer
> > > you get cheesed off and remove the program.
> > >
> > > The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6
> months
> > > (whichever comes first).
> > >
> > > This stops the clever SOD who decides to keep it running without
> exiting
> > > for 6 months but it times out anyway.
> > > Even better if 

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

What I liked about your email to me Tom was that it was extremely specific. You 
had just a handful of issues you considered absolutely key and offered to Zoom 
to show that to me. I look forward to scheduling that once I finish getting 
unburried __ 

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 22:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

Lagi,

I wrote to Kevin earlier and gave the exact same advice. those exact 2
points needing to be addressed.

Give long trial, fix the most obvious IDE issues ASAP.

Without those two things how is any new developer going to join the
platform?



On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
> something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
> way
> so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
>
>  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
> and by the time they answer
> you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
>
> The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
> (whichever comes first).
>
> This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
> for 6 months but it times out anyway.
> Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice so
> it will last 30 days.
>
> This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
> rushing.
>
> The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
> customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
> who want to give it a good try.
>
> You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
> button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
> brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
>
> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on 
a
> 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
> treacle.
>
> If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in 
less
> than 30 minutes.
>
> You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"  to
> schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
>
> It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
> some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
> student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid 
idea
> of the lot so far)
>
>
> Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
> stupid and not workable suggestions?.
>
> Lagi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give 
a
> > longer trial a shot at some point.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >
> > On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
> > use-livecode"  > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > True, true.
> >
> > There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around
> > but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
> > programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
> > supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I
> would
> > not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.
> >
> > Ralph DiMola
> > IT Director
    > > Evergreen Information Services
> > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> > Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
    > > To: How to use LiveCode
> > Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> > Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community E

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

There are some good suggestions here around the Lagi, thank you. We will 
certainly be exploring ways to make that experience just right in the coming 
days.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 22:33, "use-livecode on behalf of Lagi Pittas via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the way
so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.

 You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
and by the time they answer
you get cheesed off and remove the  program.

The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
(whichever comes first).

This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
for 6 months but it times out anyway.
Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice so
it will last 30 days.

This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
rushing.

The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
who want to give it a good try.

You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).

But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a
16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
treacle.

If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in less
than 30 minutes.

You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"  to
schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.

It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid idea
of the lot so far)


Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
stupid and not workable suggestions?.

Lagi







On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give a
> longer trial a shot at some point.
>
    > Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> True, true.
>
> There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around
> but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
> programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
> supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I would
> not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
    >
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
    > Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free
    > non-app building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just
> download that.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen
> via use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there
>
> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>
> Michael
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubsc

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give a 
longer trial a shot at some point.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

True, true.

There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around but 
you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a programming IDE 
and explain how to run the stack along with any other supporting files, SW or 
plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I would not dismiss this 
out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
    Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app 
building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi there

I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.

Michael

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Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app 
building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi there

I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.

Michael

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Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

I meant Bernard of course, apologies.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 11:22, "use-livecode on behalf of Kevin Miller via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Thanks Devin, I do appreciate the words of support. Change is always hard, 
and this particular one was something we were not looking forward to. But it 
had to be done and we will find our way through it.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 10:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Bernard Devlin via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi Kevin

I've read your various interactions with people here and on the forum 
and I
think you're handling this superbly  In the last 5 years my house 
insurance
has doubled in price (the house has remained the same size and the
insurance offers no more features). At no point has my insurance company
said "contact us if you can't afford this and we'll work something out".

Regards,

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.
>
> Kind regards,
    >
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to
> contact
> support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.
>
> It's true that open source has made things difficult for the 
company,
> but
> they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. 
Please
> do
> write to Heather.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> >> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, 
use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com
> wrote:
> >>
> >> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that
> were
> >> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as 
the
> Startert
> >> Plan subscription expires.
> >
> > Not even Apple is that rapacious.
> >
> > I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling 
stuff
> (although
> > the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I 
have
> been
> > “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only 
LC
> uses
> > being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating 
software
> I
> > wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and 
occasionally
> > contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC 
to
> move to
> > a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made 
sense
> for
> > our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford 
US$1000
> every
> > year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even 
the
> Server
> > is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that
> means the
> > app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since
> Hypercard
> > day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has 
come to
> an end.
> > A great pity, but I guess times move on.
> >
> > I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and
> generous
> > community for many years.
> >
> > Neville Smythe
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/m

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Thanks Devin, I do appreciate the words of support. Change is always hard, and 
this particular one was something we were not looking forward to. But it had to 
be done and we will find our way through it.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 10:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Bernard Devlin via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi Kevin

I've read your various interactions with people here and on the forum and I
think you're handling this superbly  In the last 5 years my house insurance
has doubled in price (the house has remained the same size and the
insurance offers no more features). At no point has my insurance company
said "contact us if you can't afford this and we'll work something out".

Regards,

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.
>
> Kind regards,
    >
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to
> contact
> support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.
>
> It's true that open source has made things difficult for the company,
> but
> they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. Please
> do
> write to Heather.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> >> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com
> wrote:
> >>
> >> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that
> were
> >> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the
> Startert
> >> Plan subscription expires.
> >
> > Not even Apple is that rapacious.
> >
> > I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff
> (although
> > the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have
> been
> > “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC
> uses
> > being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software
> I
> > wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally
> > contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC to
> move to
> > a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made sense
> for
> > our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford US$1000
> every
> > year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even the
> Server
> > is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that
> means the
> > app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since
> Hypercard
> > day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to
> an end.
> > A great pity, but I guess times move on.
> >
> > I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and
> generous
> > community for many years.
> >
> > Neville Smythe
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to contact 
support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.

It's true that open source has made things difficult for the company, but 
they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. Please do 
write to Heather.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode 
 wrote:

>> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>
>> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that were 
>> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the 
Startert 
>> Plan subscription expires.
>
> Not even Apple is that rapacious.
>
> I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff 
(although 
> the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have been 
> “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC uses 
> being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software I 
> wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally 
> contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC to move 
to 
> a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made sense for 
> our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford US$1000 every 
> year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even the 
Server 
> is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that means 
the 
> app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since Hypercard 
> day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to an 
end. 
> A great pity, but I guess times move on.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and generous 
> community for many years.
>
> Neville Smythe
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
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Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

We are of course incredibly grateful for the contributions we have received, 
all of which were spent on the project over many years. However I would note 
that 90%+ of all crowd funding campaign support came from license holders, the 
majority in the form of future license purchases. Commercial license revenue, 
whether crowd funded or not, was always the biggest source of funding for the 
open source project.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 01/09/2021, 16:44, "use-livecode on behalf of Dan Brown via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

"I can only assume
many of them used LC simply because it was free of charge, disliking that
doing so in future will entail them making some contribution to the cost of
progress."

That's a bit harsh, are you forgetting the amount of money that was
contributed by users to the fund raisers over the years?  > $600k

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 2:30 PM Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> FWIW over on the forums the sentiment seems to be mostly hostile to these
> changes. Many are talking of collecting and hosting past "community"
> installers to get around these changes by LC Ltd, others talking of 
jumping
> ship.  Over there the attitude is "the sky is falling".  I can only assume
> many of them used LC simply because it was free of charge, disliking that
> doing so in future will entail them making some contribution to the cost 
of
> progress.
>
> Regards, Bernard
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Re: Licensing model change

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Thanks Curry, we appreciate the feedback. Hope you feel better soon!

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 31/08/2021, 22:28, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via 
use-livecode"  wrote:


Kevin:

 > After 8 years with an open source offering we have come to
 > the conclusion this is not the way forward for LiveCode.

I agree. In 2013 I was on-the-record as an OSSLC skeptic.
I urged caution, but my input was summarily brushed aside;
"we've already decided with our VIPs" was the mindset.
There were many cheerleaders and nobody wanted analysis.

I seem to be vindicated, by time and facts.
My logic was not clouded by cliques or politiques.
Some of my worries came true, despite popular mantras.

Now as then, I offer some clear-headed thoughts in kindness.
Feel free to accept or ignore them; again time will tell.

To save us all another 8 years of issues, my advice now is:

1. Get the pricing right!

Dropping open-source is the first step, and that's right.
Pricing per platform is probably right, but needs tweaking.
Standard plan starts off right, but ends up too expensive.
The discount should increase per addon platform.

You will find that many people can't afford what they need.
Probably +1 platform per price tier would be nearer the mark.
Neither extreme is good; all freeloaders or all Cadillac.
Let's not jump from one mistake right to the other.

2. Get the code right!

A. We build software on LiveCode.
B. Foundations must be stable and solid.
C. The goal is to be easier and save dev time.
D. Therefore LiveCode must offer a solid foundation,
that is quite stable over time. (Moreso than Apple.)

LC 7 and 8 introduced tons of bugs. Buggy is bad.
Performance also dropped dramatically. Not good.

Today's roadmap looks like a step the right direction.
Some solid engine improvements.

For many years I've seen newbies unable to tell
whether a bug was LC's fault or their own.
That usually shouldn't be a tossup; firm foundation!
And LC needs to perform well to be competitive.

When an underlying API changes, our top-level code shouldn't.
Sometimes maybe, but usually not. Understand LC's paradigm.
Think how expensive client-side code changes were from 7 to 9.

3. Get the listening right!

I've warned about cliques and ever-changing inner circles.
Yep, there's a reason why group-think has a bad reputation. :)

Also about pre-biased poll designs and cherry picked focus groups.
Yep, you hear what you expect, but you don't get true feedback.

Diversity of opinion is good, and objectivity is rare.
But logic is a firm foundation, and emotion is not.
You won't recruit a new user generation by limiting the narrative.
Listen and learn. It always goes both ways. That's the beauty of it.

4. Happy coding!

I'm stick sick (fever too at the moment) so just pitching in
right now with my observations out of kind timely consideration.
So no flame wars at me please; time will verify what I've said.

Looks like we're entering a promising new chapter. Back to rest!
(More news of my own eventually, after I shake this illness)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Licensing model change

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

I don't know your specific license plan and Heather has left for the evening, 
however generally if we promised something in the past we do honour it. 
Licensing emails are going out, if you don't have yours by tomorrow feel free 
to drop us a line in support.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 31/08/2021, 18:00, "use-livecode on behalf of Sean Cole (Pi) via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

What has happened to price lock-ins though? Will they get honoured? I'm
still paying for a web deployment that still doesn't work properly yet.
What is happening to that?

On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 at 17:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I did not mean that we could get it to another firm for commercial use, I
> meant that we could potentially limp through, ourselves, with the 
exception
> of the pieces that were not OSS'd.
> Most of the time when we ask for source escrow, the fees are insane, if 
the
> developer will even discuss it.
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 12:39 PM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > So I am disappointed that the code will not be out in the open 
in
> > the event of a business failure
> >
> > The GPL open source license we used never provided this sort of
> protection
> > due to the terms of the GPL. For that reason, we continued to sell 
source
> > code escrow licenses to some commercial users, even as an open source
    > > company.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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-- 
Pi Digital
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Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

You can only buy one plan time per person. Or if you are an organization, again 
you all need to be on the same plan. You can't buy two $9.99 platforms - 
Starter pricing is intended to be just that, to make it easy and accessible to 
get started.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 31/08/2021, 18:38, "use-livecode on behalf of Kaveh via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

OK. Price per month:

   - Starter plan Mac – £7.99
   - Starter plan Windows – £7.99
   - Starter Mac + Windows – £24.99

What am I missing?

On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 at 18:03, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Don't forget the discount for however long that's good for
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 1:00 PM Kaveh via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Now I have to work out the new maze of pricing!
> >
> > On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 at 17:07, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > here is the announcement: https://livecode.org/
> > >
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kaveh Bazargan PhD
> > Director
> > River Valley Technologies <http://rivervalleytechnologies.com/> ●
> Twitter
> > <https://twitter.com/rivervalley1000> ● LinkedIn
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/bazargankaveh/> ● ORCID
> > <https://orcid.org/-0002-1414-9098>
> > *Accelerating the Communication of Research*
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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-- 
Kaveh Bazargan PhD
Director
River Valley Technologies <http://rivervalleytechnologies.com/> ● Twitter
<https://twitter.com/rivervalley1000> ● LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/bazargankaveh/> ● ORCID
<https://orcid.org/-0002-1414-9098>
*Accelerating the Communication of Research*
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Re: Can't reach license server...

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Nothing will change until the end of your current term. Emails are gradually 
going out to licensed customers at the moment so if you hang fire a few more 
minutes that information will be with you.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 31/08/2021, 17:30, "use-livecode on behalf of Andre Garzia via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Dear Heather,

Can you clarify what will happen to our current licenses? For example, I 
have an Indy license that goes into March 2022, how does that translate to the 
new offering? What features do I get?

It would be great if the Pricing FAQ could include some text on that topic.

Best
A

> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:51, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
 wrote:
> 
> There was a temporary license problem which should now be fixed. If you 
are still seeing it please let me know in support.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:49, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
 wrote:
>> 
>> That’s why I use the manual license method.
>> 
>> Hopefully they are aware of the problem and are working on it.
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> When trying to launch LiveCode, I keep getting errors contacting the 
license server and I see that Livecode.com is currently down for maintenance, 
so hopefully, this is a very temporary issue.
>>> 
>>> However, is anyone else having problems running LC due to not getting a 
license validated?
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Licensing model change

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

So I am disappointed that the code will not be out in the open in the 
event of a business failure

The GPL open source license we used never provided this sort of protection due 
to the terms of the GPL. For that reason, we continued to sell source code 
escrow licenses to some commercial users, even as an open source company.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself




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All new Kognition beta - LiveCode all-in Knowledgebase

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Hi Folks,

 

As some of you may be aware, LiveCode has a stake in a start-up business, 
Kognition. Kognition have a very small team building an artificially 
intelligent way of working with information (using LiveCode).

 

We have a beta/demo version which we thought could be interesting to share with 
you. What we’ve done is connected it up to the various sources of LiveCode 
information we have, including the mailing list, forums, documentation etc so 
you can find answers to a LiveCode related question as you are scripting or 
building an app. Everything is cloud based so it stays up to date as new posts 
occur or documentation becomes available.

 

You can see how it works in this tour here:

https://youtu.be/Iu5KpZVhwrM

 

If you’re interested in trying it and have a little time to give us some 
feedback, the beta/demo program is free. We don’t allow you to import your own 
files in this version, just use the LiveCode data set that we have set up. Drop 
a line to supp...@livecode.com and we will get you signed up to try it out. At 
the end of the beta program this may potentially become a paid resource or 
integrated in some way if there is sufficient interest. And of course we are 
very interested in hearing about ways you might be able to use something like 
this in your own business or with clients, accessing other knowledge bases or 
bringing together specific sources of information. Kognition has the potential 
to be used in a wide variety of settings, anywhere where there is a information 
sitting in one or more system that you need to find answers from regularly.

 

Many thanks,

 

Kevin

 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/

LiveCode: Develop Yourself

 

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Re: [OT] Personal project

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Sean, thanks so much for this heartfelt response. BPD and Autism are 
particularly tough nuts to crack and I really feel for you. I've got plenty to 
say relevant to both believe it or not. I'll get there in time. And I agree 
that making others around you happy is a very important part of the meaning of 
life.

Thanks also to those others of you who wrote such positive responses today. I 
was a little nervous launching this and felt it was something that I needed to 
do nonetheless. It's clear this is something that has touched many of you or 
those around you. The friendly responses to this effort are so encouraging.

I don't want to lead this list deeply off topic by posting in a great deal of 
detail here. However if you want to engage on the channel itself with comments, 
feedback and questions either now or on future videos, I'll be very happy to 
respond on there as much as I can.

Thanks again for the feedback and for being the community that you are.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 24/10/2019, 15:47, "use-livecode on behalf of Sean Cole (Pi) via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Dearest Kevin,

Massive respect to you for choosing, against the advice of your associates,
to make this public. I just watched the intro video and will continue to
follow the channel with deep interest.

As you are very likely aware, I have battled, often unsuccessfully, with
'clinical' depression and more recently been diagnosed with BPD (Borderline
Personality Disorder) and Autism. I recently found out that BPD is the most
discriminated against condition on the planet - which is nice! Health
Insurance costs up to 10 times more than any other condition. The stigma
behind these conditions is what can perpetuate them if not checked or
fought.

The NHS just wrote me off their books a year on since my last big incident.
They have to do that though, I understand it's not their fault. But, in the
last year, I have learnt a lot. I have learned the Meaning of Life! It is
simply 'To Make Others Around You Happy'. Helping others is helping
yourself. Showing interest in and care for others is really important. And
so-called 'social media' is deadly and abusive. It is far, far better to
get to know people up close and personal than via a corrupt intermediatory.

I am extremely grateful to all those on this group who supported me and put
up with my behaviour. It will never be forgotten. Also to those closest to
me for all they have done, especially my wife of 24 years, Judith.

I wish you all the success you deserve for both overcoming your conditions
and in maintaining your business. A good example to follow!

All the very best

Sean Cole
*Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
www.pidigital.co.uk
+44(1634)402193
+44(7702)116447
'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
box!'
'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
but it is yourself!'

eMail Ts & Cs <http://pidigital.co.uk/emailTCs.rtf>   Pi Digital
Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609


On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 13:56, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> This is initial launch of a new personal project of mine, not strictly
> LiveCode related. I hope you'll indulge this one time me if I post a link
> to it here. Perhaps some of you might be interested in it.
>
> Annihilate Depression is a practical guide to overcoming depression based
> on my experiences:
> http://annihilatedepression.com
    >
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
>
>
>
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[OT] Personal project

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Hi folks,

This is initial launch of a new personal project of mine, not strictly LiveCode 
related. I hope you'll indulge this one time me if I post a link to it here. 
Perhaps some of you might be interested in it.

Annihilate Depression is a practical guide to overcoming depression based on my 
experiences:
http://annihilatedepression.com 

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself
 



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Re: Livecloud Bundle Offer

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Hi folks,

I¹m glad there is excitement about this offer.

However a little note of caution. At various points we make offers that
target specific groups for all sorts of reasons. For example, we might
offer a bundle to someone who has been on our mailing list for a long time
and who has never ever bought a license from us. In those cases it makes
sense for us to try to help move you up to the commercial version, in the
hope that as you use the commercial features and enjoy a level of success,
you may become a full price subscriber to at least one of the various
things we offer subscriptions to.

Clearly it would be completely unsustainable for us as a business to do
something like that if you weren¹t in such a category as our bread and
butter is revenue of all sorts from our subscriber base. The purpose of
this type of offer is increase the odds we ultimately grow full price
subscribers and purchasers. The Simulcast is certainly not available for
less than the list price to anyone, the conference is very expensive to
run and packed with valuable content.

If you get such an offer it states clearly it is personal to you and not
transferable. So posting it on the list puts us in the difficult position
of potentially having to decline a purchase from individuals who did not
receive it. That's not a situation we ever want to be in as it leads to
disappointment all round, but we don¹t really have a choice. This was not
a general offer open to everyone.

In general if you have questions about offers, pricing, licensing etc we
greatly appreciate it if you post them to supp...@livecode.com. This list
is about using LiveCode, and as such I would like to declare an end to
this thread.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself




On 28/04/2019, 16:06, "use-livecode on behalf of Rick Harrison via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>Hi Matthias,
>
>Nice one, but no thanks.
>
>Sometimes bundling isn¹t the best option for LiveCode vets.
>Individual offerings might be better for some of us.
>
>I don¹t think the mothership should leave money
>on the table by not offering other options.
>
>Just my 2 cents for the day.
>
>Enjoy your day! :-)
>
>Rick
>
>> On Apr 28, 2019, at 9:17 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
>> wrote:
>> 
>> You can order just the Simulcast here
>>https://livecode.com/california19/simulcast/
>> 
>> for 149$. ;)
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 28.04.2019 um 04:35 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode
>>>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mark,
>>> 
>>> I have a Lifetime Indy LiveCode license.  So I don¹t need that.
>>> I have a Lifetime On-Rev license.
>>> I run my own servers with Postgresql as my database.
>>> (I really don¹t need LiveCloud yet.)
>>> I do not want to attend the conference in person.
>>> 
>>> So yes, in my case, the deal isn¹t good enough for me.
>>> I might only have interest in just the simulcast and recordings.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for asking.
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 27, 2019, at 10:13 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/27/19 6:45 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Is there a way to just get full access to the 2019 Simulcast
>>>>>streaming and recordings?
>>>> 
>>>> Because $149 for that PLUS a LiveCloud subscription AND a permanent
>>>>9.0 license isn't a good enough deal for you?
>>>> 
>>>> If you buy a $199 ticket to attend the conference and want to add
>>>>just the simulcast and recordings, that alone will add $149.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Mark Wieder
>>>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>>>> 
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>>>>subscription preferences:
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>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: URGENT: MergGoogle no longer works on iOS: CLIENTS VERY UNHAPPY

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Hi Sean,

I¹m very sorry to hear your demo went wrong today.

If its any consolation I¹ve been there and probably most of us have been
in that situation at some point in our careers. Even Steve Jobs had the
occasional demo that didn¹t work out! How you recover from that situation
is probably more important than the fact that it happened. Most customers
and clients understand that tech demos are fraught with potential issues
and will accept that if you can keep a level head and talk to them. One of
the techniques I have for doing demos - in common with many in this
industry - is to practice the whole thing 3 times the day before from
beginning to end. As this change occurred 20th April that would have given
us a few hours to respond Š rather than it being ³too late² now.

Could we have done a better job here? Possibly. We have hundreds and
hundreds of components in LiveCode and we generally try to maintain
compatibility within a couple of weeks of major upgrades and changes. For
whatever reason this change wasn¹t flagged by the processes we use to stay
on top here - and as a result we can review that process going forward. At
present Monte is asleep - yes even he needs sleep sometimes - and as he
wrote this component we really need him to chime in here and take a look
at what needs to be updated.

Generally its faster post to support than this list, though we do require
a support contract in place to help you. Nonetheless given how important
this is for you we will look at this issue when Monte gets up.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself




On 02/05/2018, 15:27, "use-livecode on behalf of Andre Garzia via
use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>Sean,
>
>Do you have a support package? They don't monitor this list close, it
>might
>be better to call them over the phone while sending a direct email to
>Heather. At least this is somewhat fixable on their side. I remember when
>I
>lost a ton of money when Apple decided that only Obj-C/Cocoa apps would be
>allowed on the store at the same time I was supposed to deliver a project.
>
>This kind of setback happens to everyone in the long run when we're using
>APIs outside our control. My advise would be to ping RunRev directly while
>calling the client, explaining that google deprecated a technology used in
>the project and thus it requires an extension.
>
>On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> It's all too late now. I'm walking with egg on my face. No response
>>from LC
>> still. despite being marked as urgent. To use the browser widget I would
>> have had to write the whole wrapper from scratch rather than use merg
>> dependance. If it had been written properly in the first place it would
>>not
>> have been an issue. Had it had a warning on it (and not suppressed) I
>>would
>> have been aware. Now my life is over. Worst Day Ever! Miserable. Rained
>>on
>> and soaked through. Insurance doesn't cover for events like this and not
>> one person at LC or on here will be able to help me out of this hole. I
>> guess this is goodbye.
>>
>> Sean Cole
>> *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
>> www.pidigital.co.uk
>> +44(1634)402193
>> +44(7702)116447
>> 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is
>>no
>> box!'
>> 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside
>>of,
>> but it is yourself!'
>>
>> eMail Ts & Cs <http://pidigital.co.uk/emailTCs.rtf>   Pi Digital
>> Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
>>
>> On 2 May 2018 at 15:00, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I wonder if using the browser widget would be a temporary workaround
>>so
>> > that you get the flow the way google is asking for it.
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 9:38 AM Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > If he had then it would also be in 8.1.10 or 8.2 (but it is not).
>>v9 is
>> > > basically still a beta (a GM beta!) as is incredibly buggy and
>> virtually
>> > > unusable for client projects. I wouldn't dare touch it yet till it
>>is
>> > > actually fully operational.
>> > >
>> > > Sean Cole
>> > > *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
>> > > www.pidigital.co.uk
>> > > +44(1634)402193
>> > > +44(7702)116447
>> > > 'Don't try to think outside the 

Re: Digital Pomegranate

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Man that sounds rough. I hope things become ok over there.

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself




On 23/04/2018, 12:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Todd Fabacher via
use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>There are few moments in life that are more important than business and
>coding, this is one of them. All of Digital Pomegranate is our on the
>street rejecting the former president who had grabbed power after his term
>limits and has become a dictator in the former Soviet country. As you
>would
>expect, lots of arrests and the hospitals are full. Let's just hope they
>don't start shooting as have threatened to do.
>
>This has been going on for 10 days now and will continue. It is now
>starting to hit the nightly news cycle, so you will see it in the next few
>days. The internet has been on and off and now the entire company is on
>the
>streets asking for a free election and better government, so we will not
>be
>providing support for our new widgets for a few days.
>
>https://www.rferl.org/a/armenia-fresh-protests-sarkisian-yerevan-pashinian
>/29186416.html
>
>--Todd Fabacher
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Re: LiveCode Widget Factory

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

In my LiveCode Global team report in January.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 22/02/2018, 15:42, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin via
use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>Todd Fabacher wrote:
>
> > As Kevin announced before...
>
>Where was this announced?
>
>-- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>
>
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Re: Livecode.com server down

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Unfortunately we¹ve been the subject of a spate of sustained, intensive
hacking attempts. We had a series of incidents the other week and the last
couple of days has been a new round of attempts from a different angle.
We¹ve fought them off yet again, but some of our team are very tired.
Heather for one was up half the night. The systems are well designed and
no customer data has been affected.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 15/02/2018, 07:57, "use-livecode on behalf of Dave Kilroy via
use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>What Heather told me the last time this happened was to:
>
>a) disconnect your development machine from the internet
>b) launch LiveCode (it opens in offline mode)
>c) reconnect your development machine to the internet
>d) continue making awesome apps with LC
>
>
>
>-
>"The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes
>the other 90% of the time."
>Peter M. Brigham 
>--
>Sent from: 
>http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.htm
>l
>
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Re: Datagrid 2

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

I gave a demo of the progress on it in the last LCG. Its still on track
for completion in the last DP before Christmas.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 05/12/2017, 18:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via
use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>Hi folks, I'm bidding on a project and would like to get a sense as to the
>eta of datagrid 2 especially on mobile. I would love to buy a LC Indy
>License and do the job.
>
>During Campaign the eta was oct/november, but i get they are just
>estimates.  Is there a more up to date eta?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tom
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Yes you can. I'm at a conference just now but hopefully someone knowledgable on 
our team can jump in with more info.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Jul 2017, at 13:07, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Kevin,
> 
> Can you have a structure similar to having multiple stacks controlled by an 
> LC engine?
> 
> I am really curious how you guys set that up? Using localstorage and cookies 
> are the only methods I know of for doing that in regular html5 with multiple 
> tabs/windows.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Go in window of stack works
>> 
>> You can download stacks just fine
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 25 Jul 2017, at 12:46, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is 
>>> possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for 
>>> communicating between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to 
>>> use localstorage and storage events.
>>> 
>>> This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, 
>>> but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work 
>>> to make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your 
>>> mouth.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or 
>>>> write to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack 
>>>> approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in 
>>>> RAM at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the 
>>>> standalone, which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are 
>>>> opened.
>>>> 
>>>> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack 
>>>> standalones.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access 
>>>>> many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>>>>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>>>>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>>>>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is 
>>>>> easily 10 times faster for me.
>>>>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>>>>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>>>>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around 
>>>>> that with datamaps.
>>>>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>>>>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is 
>>>>> not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to 
>>>>> spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully 
>>>>> slow bug fixes.
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some 
>>>>>> doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently 
>>>>>> possible and what is not?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads 
>>>>>> content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a 
>>>>>> networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many 
>>>>>> hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks 
>>>>>> held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>> HyperActive Software   |

Re: HTML5 limitations?

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Go in window of stack works

You can download stacks just fine

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Jul 2017, at 12:46, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is 
> possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for communicating 
> between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to use localstorage 
> and storage events.
> 
> This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, 
> but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work to 
> make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or write 
>> to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack 
>> approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in RAM 
>> at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the standalone, 
>> which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are opened.
>> 
>> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack 
>> standalones.
>> 
>>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many 
>>> things that LC can access in the user's system.
>>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is 
>>> easily 10 times faster for me.
>>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that 
>>> with datamaps.
>>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is 
>>> not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to 
>>> spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow 
>>> bug fixes.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some 
 doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently 
 possible and what is not?
 
 This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content 
 on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked 
 database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of 
 cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. 
 There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
 
 Thoughts?
 
 -- 
 Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
 HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
 
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.6 RC-1

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Is it something perhaps you could get used to?

We are working hard to attract new users to the platform. This has come up
again and again in user testing. This evening we tested this new handler
list on new users for the first time. It went over very well.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 11/07/2017, 23:05, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe via
use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
>Matthias Rebbe
>+49 5741 31
>?matthiasrebbe.eu <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/>?
>> 
>> 
>> A new feature in the script editor has been added, this is the ability
>>to
>> choose from a list of default handlers to add to the object script.
>
>I am not sure if i like this new handler list. At least at that place. I
>find it somehow disturbing. I am not sure if this is the correct
>expression.
>Is there a way to hide that list in the editor? Or is there a way to make
>at least the height of that list smaller?
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Re: Fat widgets

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

I haven't encountered this because our widgets are a library. But - I'm 
guessing - you could try the revert command?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 8 Jul 2017, at 15:49, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thank you very much. :)
> 
> This makes it so much easier to test stacks between 8 and 9.
> 
> I had to make some adjustments, because the source of my extensions is stored 
> somewhere else and the updateMessage is also not present.
> I get the widget recompiled when i load the stack, but the widget in the 
> stack still does not show up correctly. I have to unload and reload the stack 
> again.
> Can i somehow refresh the stack w/o having to unload and load again?


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Re: Fat widgets

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

I don¹t see why not:

on openStack
   -- Build widgets and libraries
   if the environment is "development" then
  _checkExtension _rootFolder() & "/extensions/com.library.folder.here"
-- insert any others here
end if

end openStack

--
-- Remove all the files with the extension pExtension in the
-- current directory
--
command _removeExtension pExtension
   get "find . -depth 1 -name " & quote & "*." & pExtension & quote && "
-exec rm {} \;"
   get shell(it)
end _removeExtension
--
-- _checkExtension pFolder
--
-- Proceed to build and install the extension in pFolder if need be
--
command _checkExtension pFolder
   local tOldFolder, tFiles
   local tExtensionFolder
   
   set the itemDel to slash
   
   put item -1 of pFolder into tExtensionFolder
   
   put the defaultFolder into tOldFolder
   set the defaultFolder to pFolder
   
   put the detailed files into tFiles
   
   set the itemDel to comma
   
   local tPackageTime, tLcbTime, tPackageName
   
   repeat for each line tFile in tFiles
  local tFilename
  put urlDecode(item 1 of tFile) into tFilename
  
  if tFilename ends with ".lce" then
 -- Get the last modification date of the package
 put item 5 of tFile into tPackageTime
 put urlDecode(tFilename) into tPackageName
 
  else if tFilename ends with ".lcb" then
 -- LCB file we want to check
 put item 5 of tFile into tLcbTime
  end if
   end repeat
   
   -- Guess the extension name from the folder - only take the
   -- first 4 segments, as orientabletext folder, for instance,
   -- also has the version appended to the widget name
   local tExtensionName
   set the itemDel to "."
   put item 1 to 4 of tExtensionFolder into tExtensionName
   
   if tPackageTime is empty or tPackagetime < tLcbTime or \
 tExtensionName is not among the lines of the loadedExtensions then
  -- Missing or outdated extension package, or extension not loaded
  updateMessage "Building and installing extension" && tExtensionFolder
  
  _removeExtension "lci"
  _removeExtension "lce"
  _removeExtension "lcm"
  _removeExtension "xml"
  
  -- Make sure to remove the extension beforehand, installation does
not
  -- work properly if the extension already exists
  revIDEDeveloperExtensionUninstall pFolder
  
  wait 500 milliseconds with messages
  
  revIDEDeveloperExtensionInstall pFolder
  
  load extension from file tPackageName
  
  -- Let the IDE load the extension
  wait 500 milliseconds with messages
   end if
   
   set the defaultFolder to tOldFolder
end _checkExtension

--
-- _rootFolder
--
-- Return the root folder of the application
--
function _rootFolder
   if the environment is "development" then
  set the itemDel to slash
  return item 1 to -3 of the filename of me
  
   else
  return specialFolderPath("engine")
   end if
end _rootFolder


Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 08/07/2017, 14:30, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe via
use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>Kevin,
>
>is it possible to get that script or is it not for the public?
>
>Regards,
>Matthias
>
>Matthias Rebbe
>+49 5741 31
>matthiasrebbe.eu <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/>
>



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Re: Fat widgets

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

What we do one one large project that uses widgets and moves between 8 and
9 is to automatically recompile them on startup using a script. The logic
is simple - if a try determines the widget library functions are not
running and available, uninstall the widget, recompile it and reinstall
it. Its pretty much instant to do that and its mean that (in this project
at least) we¹ve stopped thinking about this issue.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 08/07/2017, 11:22, "use-livecode on behalf of hh via use-livecode"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>This is the current situation:
>[*] A stack that contains a widget that is compiled with LC 8.1.5
>can not be used with any other LC version than LC 8.1.5,
>[*] A stack that contains a widget that is compiled with LC 9.0.0
>can not be used with any other LC version than LC 9.0.0
>
>Mark Waddingham did recently already post thoughts to that here (see
>below).
>
>Option (1) below is the build of "fat widgets" that contain several
>binaries,
>one for each currently valid widget format. Would be great, thus one
>could be
>"downward compatible" in LC 8/9.
>
>Is there any chance to enable such "fat widgets" in the short future?
>[And how is this solved for the current company-widgets (Clock etc.)?]
>
>> On Jun 16, 2017; 11:10 Mark wrote:
>> > [MatthiasRebbe wrote:] Mark,
>> > regarding to recompiling widget for newer LC version:
>> > If i use LC 8 and 9, do i have to recompile it every time i use the
>> > other version?
>> 
>> Right now - yes - the lcm (compiled LCB) formats are not compatible.
>> 
>> There are a couple of potential solutions:
>> 
>> 1) Make it so that multiple LCM versions can sit in the same extension.
>> We can package up the lcb toolchain for each version as a distinct
>> download to help with this.
>> 
>> 2) Have a plugin in the IDE which fetches a git repo containing a widget
>> (or widgets) and compiles them locally. lc-compile is really lightweight
>> and bundled into the IDE so doing this automatically is quite
>> straight-forward.
>> 
>> Case (1) would work for people wanting to distribute lce files which
>> people can just install on their machine. Case (2) is suitable
>> particularly for community widgets - it would mean that anyone
>> subscribing to a particular 'widget repo' could get updates as soon as
>> they are pushed by the maintainer.
>> 
>> I think it is worth doing (1) regardless - it is a simple matter of
>> having say 'module.8.lcm' and 'module.9.lcm' files. The 9 format is
>> unstable until we go GM, but the 8 format is now 'stable' - i.e. won't
>> change ever again.
>
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Re: Feature Race: Pick Your Project

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

I¹m not sure if its apathy or more likely just the holiday weekend. That
said...

I¹m sorry its taken so long to do Infinite LiveCode. As I¹ve said in my
keynote, in the comments section and on the blog, we wouldn¹t be funding a
new project if it that one wasn¹t in the last stages of being wrapped up.
Android has been mostly delivered and the other platforms and stretch
goals are a small piece now. We really have finally cracked this project,
getting it into a build is the last step.

The reality is that we now need to look at what we are doing next and what
is affordable. If we don¹t fund this project, the knock on effects for the
platform will be very significant. We¹re already a very small team that
punches well above our weight. We have the potential for a very bright
future with the rather amazing stuff that you can now do. Check out Ali¹s
blog post on Android and wait a few more days for more. We can build on
everything we¹ve just created and maintain the considerable momentum we
have built or we can shrink.


Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 05/07/2017, 18:24, "use-livecode on behalf of Dan Brown via
use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>The comments section on the pledge page gives a good insight as to why
>there may be a feeling of apathy towards this fundraiser
>
>The infinite livecode campaign from last year was not handled well in
>terms
>of communicating progress to the community, with questions about the
>sqlite
>library rewrite remaining unanswered
>
>On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Wow.  I'm surprised we aren't closer to getting this funded.  c'mon
>>y'all
>> let's get this funded!
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
>> use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I had similar feelings, (I have taken almost every pitch to "pay in
>> > advance for X number of years for this discount or thatŠ ) so when we
>>get
>> > hit up again for development that one would hope would be just part of
>> the
>> > product road map, it does indeed seem odd. Even "advanced smooth
>> scrolling
>> > graphics" seems odd to be funding, since all this is doing is bring
>>the
>> LC
>> > mobile on parity with any other smooth flowing app.
>> >
>> > This is terribly obvious, but just to say it all again:
>> >
>> > Thinking about it, one has to appreciate the challenge the company
>>faces.
>> > Having gone open source, Livecode moves to a world where everyone and
>>his
>> > kid sister thinks programming is free. PHP, Javascript, python,
>> CSSŠpeople
>> > living in those world just don't pay for their tools.
>> >
>> > So if open source users are going up (which apparently they are)Š that
>> > doesn't help us (to say the obvious)
>> >
>> > If not enough of them are using LC to build products for sale to
>>support
>> > themselves, OR are not using the tools in-house inside Enterprise
>>(like
>> we
>> > do here, even though we are non -profit we do have software budgets)
>> where
>> > budgets are such that the ROI on paid license(s) is well worth it.
>>And it
>> > would be easy enough for some unscrupulous for-profit company to have
>>5
>> > coders on community and only one license and pretty much get away with
>> > itŠ(which is cheating of course)Š
>> >
>> > So  If the user "pie" of those whose are paying  <> equal $ to support
>> the
>> > company and + hours for features, how does LC handle this, to stay
>>alive?
>> >  And we all want it to stay aliveŠright?
>> >
>> > I was hoping to talk to Kevin about some other ideas for solutionsŠ
>>but
>> he
>> > is busy. Perhaps I need to fly to Scotland for tea. In the meantime, I
>> > voted/pledged for the DataGrid2/GraphicsUpgrade.
>> >
>> > Brahmanathaswamai
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 6/24/17, 7:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Alex Tweedly via
>> > use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > So the Feature Race lets me choose between "Hosting debugger" and
>> > Datagrid 2.
>> >
>> > 

Re: Preference for Keeping Saved Empty Button Scripts Empty

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Sooner would have been better. However just in case you missed it, the
architecture has been available to play with for many months and a native
field for Android is doable in 9-dp-7 posted last week. You have to change
a few words in Ali¹s native button LCB file - he explained which ones in
his talk. We¹ll follow with a blog post on that too shortly. There is a
widget course available https://livecode.com/topic/introduction-2/ now
which covers getting started with widgets. We will add in the info about
the FFI layer to that course shortly. We will also modify the object Ali
supplied to cover a whole variety of other native controls from the tools
palette given each is just a tweak to that LCB. Its all in there and open
source right now. Objective-C (and thus iOS) will be in DP 8.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 20/06/2017, 16:13, "use-livecode on behalf of Andrew Bell via
use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>I'd have a little more faith in crowd funding app features if the
>Native Field Object that I contributed for a year ago was available.
>
>https://livecode.com/project/infinite-livecode-native-field-object/
>
>--Andrew Bell
>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:57:30 -0400
>> From: Mike Kerner <mikeker...@roadrunner.com>
>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
>> Subject: Re: Preference for Keeping Saved Empty Button Scripts Empty
>> Message-ID:
>>  <cadcoycohgntezjx8voym6ywjhnznenvjghjzuxhkezxeflp...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> and another case where we should have a little crowd fund setup.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> > On Jun 19, 2017, at 12:49 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Right, but every time you open the script and then close it again, it
>>> keeps asking if you want to save the default. It gets irritating.
>>> >
>>> > I sometimes just replace the default entry with a single space and
>>>save
>>> it that way. Then it doesn't ask me again.
>>> >
>>> > I wouldn't mind a preference to turn off the default scripts.
>>> > --
>>> > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>> > HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>>>
>>
>
>
>
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Kognition Beta Test - call for volunteers

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Hi Everyone,

A slightly unusual post from me today. For those of you that don¹t know,
LiveCode has been working in partnership with a new company as a joint
venture, to build an app to help manage information. We have built a system
that uses artificial intelligence techniques to help organize, sort and work
with documents. While this is an entirely separate company, the app has been
built in LiveCode (and utilizes a wide range of other technologies too).

Kognition is intended to help you manage the increasing volumes of
information that you create or receive, as well as being a tool to help
researchers conduct research or businesses to collect and analyze
information such as customer enquiries or bug reports. It presents an
artificially intelligent front-end that lets you relate documents together,
as well as organize, cluster and discover information in the relationships.
For example, if you are working on a project and receive an email with an
attachment, it can show you what other documents on your hard drive relate
to that attachment or are relevant to the project. If you have a customer
enquiry asking for a particular feature you can explore all the other
questions to find out how many others are asking about similar topics. The
system goes far beyond simple keyword analysis, for example it can relate
documents together that do not have the same words in them.

Today we have our very first beta available. Its a private beta, so if you
are interested in trying it out please drop me a note off list. Please
include a very short description of your company or you together with what
you might potentially use the system for. The first beta is Mac only and
requires a recent, high-end machine. Subsequent betas will extend to other
platforms and reduce system requirements. If you don¹t have a high end Mac
available today but are still interested, let me know and I can still send
you the videos to look at and include you in subsequent betas. Thanks in
advance for your interest.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps


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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Of course we listen. We read what comes in here and on many other venues.
We just don¹t always agree or have time to respond on every point. As far
as the marketing goes, as with all these things we will test different
approaches over time.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 14/04/2017, 09:45, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via
use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>My interest is primarily for the .com site, and I'm comfortable sharing
>my opinion. Of course they have every right to their own decision too
>and I have the deepest respect for that. In my experience LiveCode is a
>company that does listen over time, so it's always interesting to have a
>discussion, whatever the venue and final result, always in a friendly
>spirit.



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Re: Sharing widgets (was Re: Type on an angle)

[Kevin Miller]

As it happens we¹ve been talking about that very issue internally today
within our marketing team. This is a key priority for us, it has taken us
longer than we would have liked but it needs to be moved up the queue and
we will be doing that. I¹ll post something concrete on this next week. We
did start a sharing solution, its not quite ready to launch yet.

In the mean time, you can use the forum here as a stopgap
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93=28020

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 22/11/2016, 16:03, "use-livecode on behalf of Paul Dupuis"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of p...@researchware.com>
wrote:

>Could someone from the Mothership (i.e. LiveCode) weigh in on where
>people should publish LCB widgets?
>
>If Kevin really wants a 1000 widgets, then LiveCode really should
>designate an "official" place to put them or at least put links to them
>(if not the actual widgets themselves). As has been illustrated in this
>thread, some people want to host their widgets themselves and other want
>a place to upload them to, so both should be supported.
>
>I have no preference for whether this is a board on the Forum or the
>Sample Stacks or a web based repository or where ever, but before lots
>of widgets organically get deposited all over everywhere, where would
>LiveCode like them placed?
>
>
>
>
>On 11/22/2016 10:04 AM, zryip theSlug wrote:
>> Done with number 50. Thanks for the link.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 4:38 PM, hh <h...@hyperhh.de> wrote:
>>>>>> zyrip wrote: Where can I share it?
>>>>> Ben wrote: What is a good answer to zryip's question below,
>>>>> where should interesting third-party widgets be shared?
>>>> Andy wrote: The widget could be uploaded as a zip to the
>>>> Sample Stacks. There are a couple there already.
>>> If you mean snippets or widgets for the community, then
>>> you could write a post here (please number it as I did,
>>> so it's **easier to refer** to it):
>>>
>>> Community Snippets:
>>>http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93=28225
>>> Community Widgets:
>>>http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93=28020
>>>
>>> If the zip is less than 256 KByte you can also upload it to
>>> the forum.
>>> In "Sample Stacks"/livecodeshare there is currently one single
>>> _LCB widget_ (there are more LCS groups, also called 'widgets').
>>>
>>> This is my proposal:
>>> No matter where you upload it if not the forum: Please number the
>>> widget/snippet in a forum post in Community Widgets/Snippets and
>>> link there to the download location.
>>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3

[Kevin Miller]

The new URL library is licensed with per-user costs so it can¹t go into
OSS. There are libraries out there. The platform is open source. That
means that you can add any one you choose free of charge.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 30/07/2016, 13:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Roger Eller"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
roger.e.el...@sealedair.com> wrote:

>> * SFTP, SMTP, and SMTPS support (synchronous in Indy, async in Business)
>> * SFTP key-based authentication (Business-only)
>
>Why handicap the performance for all but the high-rollers?
>What does the open-source version get; the old half-baked libUrl?
>Was there no open-source FTP libs out in the expanse of the interwebs that
>could benefit all LC users?
>
>~Roger
>On Jul 29, 2016 12:15 PM, "panagiotis merakos"
><panos.mera...@livecode.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Dear list members,
>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0-dp-3, a
>> development preview of LiveCode 8.1.
>>
>> Developer Preview Release
>> =
>> Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up
>>your
>> stacks before testing them.
>>
>> Getting the Release
>> ===
>> You can get the release at
>>https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/#8_1_0
>> or via the automatic updater.
>>
>> Release Contents
>> 
>> Full release notes:
>> 
>>https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_0_dp_3.pd
>>f
>>
>> tsNet external
>> --
>> LiveCode Indy and Business Editions now include the Tech Strategies
>>tsNet
>> external!
>> * Faster than libURL (like, way faster... WAY FASTER)
>> * Multiple simultaneous asynchronous requests to the same server
>> * SFTP, SMTP, and SMTPS support (synchronous in Indy, async in Business)
>> * SFTP key-based authentication (Business-only)
>> * Seamless integration
>>
>> files() and folders() functions take an argument
>> 
>> Avoid setting "the defaultFolder" by using "files()".
>>
>> LiveCode "Infinite" improvements to LCB
>> ---
>> * The deprecated "undefined" keyword has been "nothing"-ed.
>>
>> Graph widget upgrades
>> -
>> * Show points as well (or instead of) lines
>> * Choose a variety of exciting point markers (circles, squares, etc.)
>>
>> More!
>> -
>> * Support for field paragraphs with > 32767 characters
>> * New "tokenOffset()" function finds the offset of tokens
>> * 26 LiveCode 8.1-specific bugs fixed
>>
>> Known issues
>> 
>> * HTML5 standalones don't obey standalone builder settings (bug 18103)
>> * HTML5 standalones do not currently work when they contain extensions
>>with
>> dependencies
>> * 64-bit standalones for Mac OS X do not have support for audio
>>recording
>> or the revVideoGrabber external
>> * The default video is in .mov format which is not supported by the new
>> Windows player (bug 17696)
>>
>> Feedback
>> 
>> Please report any bugs encountered either to our support team <
>> supp...@livecode.com> or on our Bugzilla at http://quality.livecode.com/
>>
>> Have fun!
>> The LiveCode Team
>> ___
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>> subscription preferences:
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Re: Licensing AGAIN [was: Sharing FontLab Plugin]

[Kevin Miller]

Hi folks,

We do review our licensing from time to time and I will at some point look
again at whether we can clarify this further or introduce changes that
make it clearer to our end users. I¹m not a lawyer and until this stuff
gets tested in court it seems hard to say what will and won¹t stand up.

A few comments on the statements below though. Firstly, the article Mark
helpfully references is based on USA law. LiveCode is based in the UK.
There isn¹t the same concept of ³fair use² over here, and various other
aspects of copyright law are different. It would be hard to say that the
statements in that article, if correct in the USA (and as I say they
haven¹t been tested) would apply here.

Secondly, LiveCode is very different from Wordpress. Stacks are executable
binaries that incorporate aspects of the engine. That's even more the case
now when they start to use and include widgets. There isn¹t a good
comparison with other text based languages. I personally doubt our script
only components are GPL, but as I¹ve said this hasn¹t been tested in court
and its not up to me.

GPL does not alter the copyright assignment of the work that you create.
Nor does it kick in at all on work on your own machine, it only applies at
the point you distribute. When it applies, it simply requires that your
work be distributed with certain additional freedoms. That does not remove
your copyright, it just adds some rights for other people. You can change
that any time by buying a commercial license.

If all stacks were not GPL, then there would be far less need for
standalones any more. Just build a commercial product and ship it, let the
user install the IDE to run it. Maybe fork the source to add in password
protection. That impact wouldn¹t apply as quickly to iOS but it would take
another chunk of our revenue away overnight on all other platforms. Which
means less features for you, less bug fixes, less engineers and less
progress on the platform. There are other ways to encourage commercial
license use (e.g. by adding features) but we aren¹t there yet to the
extent we would need to be. Maybe when we get further down that path this
sort of change might start to stack up economically. In the mean time it
is surely in everyone¹s interests that we are strong and healthy.

Mark I¹m very happy to sit down with you (and anyone else) over a whisky
and debate all of this. If we can find a clearer license that continues to
bring in sufficient revenue for our core team to develop the platform and
grows our community even better, I¹d be truly delighted. In order to have
that debate, you would need to be more aware of the actual economics of
our specific situation and that not something we can do on list. As yet I
haven¹t come up with a better license combination for where we are today
and its not for lack of thought on the subject.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 22/07/2016, 02:52, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wilcox"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
m...@sorcery-ltd.co.uk> wrote:

>On Fri, Jul 22, 2016, at 03:38 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Mark Wilcox wrote:
>>
>>  > My concern around LiveCode over-reaching with their derivative
>>  > work claims (which are significantly stronger than those made
>>  > by WordPress and Drupal)
>>
>> In what way(s)?
> 
>OK, it's not wise to pull too hard on this thread, because LiveCode does
>potentially have an issue with people distributing stackfiles
>commercially, separate from a copy of the engine.
> 
>That said, several noteworthy points exist in this regard:
>1) First, the Software Freedom Law Centre - which tends to be rather
>   biased in attempting to push copyright law interpretations in a way
>   that strengthen's copyleft licenses - has only given an opinion on
>   WordPress themes, not plugins. That analysis suggested that the PHP
>   code in themes was essentially trivial, just calling a fixed set of
>   APIs to enable the CSS and images to be used in the right places.
>   It's debatable but not unreasonable to suggest that the PHP code in
>   themes is subject to the GPL. The SFLC specifically said that the CSS
>   and images were not subject to the GPL.
> 
>2) A core WordPress contributor, Mark Jaquith, publicly stated at the
>   time of the SFLC statement on themes that the same argument applied
>   to plugins as well. He has since reconsidered that opinion and isn't
>   so convinced about themes any more either (see his comment on this
>   blog:
>   
>https://enriquesthoughts.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/wordpress-is-gpl-must-yo
>ur-plugin-be-as-well/
>   - specifically:
>"Very well argued. My thinking on this matter has evolved since I wrote
>my post, 3+ years ago. The thing about the GPL is that it is a legal
>

Re: Slightly OT: Exam results for students using LiveCode in Norway

[Kevin Miller]

This is great news Tore. We have seen similarly good results here in Scotland. 

Richmond, it can be done. LC has become something of a standard here in, it is 
in the main textbook and exams. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 18 Jun 2016, at 19:03, Richmond  wrote:
> 
> I only wish I could persuade the Ministry of Education of that in Bulgaria 
> (here schools have almost no individual curricular control).
> 
> Very good news indeed: Bravo!
> 
> Richmond Mathewson.
> 
>> On 18.06.2016 20:17, Tore Nilsen wrote:
>> The results from national and local exams in the subject “Information 
>> technology” in Norwegian Upper Secondary schools are now in. I am happy to 
>> say that my students scored well in their exams, with an average of 4.4 out 
>> of 6 for all students who had to either sit through the national written 
>> exam or the local oral/practical exam assessed by external teacher.
>> 
>> 60% of the students scored 5 or better, which puts them at the top of the 
>> scale. Compared to last years national results, the overall average would 
>> put our school at a fine top 6 spot nationally. With a top 5 spot for the 
>> national written exam and a top 6 spot for the oral/practical exam.
>> 
>> These results are unprecedented at our school, and in my opinion, very much 
>> a result of our choice to use LiveCode as our programming environment.
> 
> The next sentence says exactly what is so good about Livecode from a 
> pedagogical point of view.
> 
>>  Due to the nature of LiveCode we have been able to focus on the principles 
>> behind good coding, and use both time and resources to become better at 
>> problem solving rather than to learn the intricacies of a specialised 
>> programming language.
> 
> 
>> As far as I know, we are the only school in Norway to use LiveCode as the 
>> preferred tool in this subject.
>> 
>> On behalf of my students, I am very happy with the results, and I very much 
>> look forward to teach programming with LiveCode to yet another group of 
>> students next year.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Tore Nilsen
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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[Kevin Miller]

Yes absolutely. Thanks. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 May 2016, at 19:08, Jim Byrnes  wrote:
> 
>> On 05/13/2016 04:34 PM, stephen barncard wrote:
>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:35 AM, Dave Kilroy 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> My regards to all who have pledged or who intend to pledge, no matter how
>>> little or how much - and I'll see you on the sunny side of the street some
>>> day!
>>> 
>>> Kind regards
>>> 
>>> Dave
>> 
>> Just pledged. I'm in.
>> 
>> sqb
> 
> I just looked at the site and I see an invoice will be sent but I don't see 
> any mention of a payment method.  I don't have or want a Paypal account, so 
> will credit cards be accepted?
> 
> Regards,  Jim
> 
> 
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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[Kevin Miller]

Well if we want a really useful version of this feature that everyone can
use, we need to build as many of those examples as possible and do the
documentation around them. Lets define what is attainable at the end of
the campaign, rather than today.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 17/05/2016, 14:14, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Kerner"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
mikeker...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

>The page is misleading, and I think that should be corrected.  $76k isn't
>the target.  That is three stretch goals in.  $40k is the target.  One of
>these two numbers looks attainable, the other does not, so if one wants to
>get pledges, maybe one should consider tweaking the page.
>



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Re: HTML 5 out of isolation...

[Kevin Miller]

Yes - that's what Peter means by a REST API (one way to do it anyway).

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 16/05/2016, 12:24, "use-livecode on behalf of John Dixon"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of dixo...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

>Mmm... 
>
>Peter Brett wrote...
> It's unlikely that you'll be able to connect an LiveCode HTML5 app to a
>MySQL server in the foreseeable future
>
>Will it though be possible to send to an .lc script and then have the .lc
>script send the query to the database, returning the data to the stack
>running in the browser ?
>
>
>
>> Subject: Re: HTML 5 out of isolation...
>> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> From: peter.br...@livecode.com
>> Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 12:07:15 +0100
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 16/05/2016 11:53, John Dixon wrote:
>> > It was in the latest webinar, I think.. it was mentioned that
>> > database connectivity will be coming to HTML5, but rather than
>> > guess... Is it possible to know when this will actually arrive..
>> >
>> > It would be nice to know in which quarter of the year, if its
>> > introduction can't be nailed doen to a particular month ...:-)
>> 
>> Database connectivity in the way that "normal" LiveCode apps have
>> _can't_ be provided on the HTML5 platform because JavaScript apps can't
>> open raw sockets.  It's unlikely that you'll be able to connect an
>> LiveCode HTML5 app to a MySQL server in the foreseeable future, for
>>example.
>> 
>> In the future, the plan involves improving the networking and URL
>> operations available in HTML5 standalones to allow you to use REST APIs
>> to persist data (e.g. using FireBase).  However, there's no current
>> schedule for doing this work, so I'm not able to answer your question.
>> 
>>   Peter
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dr Peter Brett <peter.br...@livecode.com>
>> LiveCode Open Source Team
>> 
>> LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>> 
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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[Kevin Miller]

Hi Rick,

1. Sometimes the data is blind, sometimes it is not. When analyzing the
survey for most purposes we strip out any identifying data so this is
irrelevant to the person doing the analysis.

2. Sometimes we indicate the number of questions and sometimes we do not.
It depends on what the survey is for, who it is going to and how it has
been designed.

3. Some surveys do things like that depending on what the user answers,
most do not. Sometimes this is the right approach if we are fairly sure we
want to go in a particular direction for some other reason and want to pin
down some specifics. Other times we do large independent surveys entirely
separate from this sort of analysis. You will get different surveys
depending on your demographics within our user base. And we do sample
widely enough to get representative results.

Rick just so you know my dad, Dr Miller used to play a major role in
organizing the EU young people drug and alcohol survey for the UK. He
regularly provided support to students learning how to design surveys so
as to avoid bias and how to apply statistics to survey analysis. My mum,
also Dr Miller, used to lecture in experimental design at university
level. I have also had the pleasure and privilege of working with CEOs and
product managers of far larger organizations than ours and been able to
discuss at length our survey strategy with them. While there is always
room for improvement, I am extremely confident the for the most part we
get good data, ask good questions and make better decisions as a result of
these surveys.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 13/05/2016, 22:00, "use-livecode on behalf of Rick Harrison"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
harri...@all-auctions.com> wrote:

>Hi Richard,
>
>These surveys could be a lot better than they are.
>
>1.  The data collected is not blind.  It is traceable to the
> participant who filled out the survey.
>
>2.  The questions are not all available at once so that one
> can decide if they want to participate or not.  The
> participant has no idea how many questions there are,
> what the questions are that will be asked, or how much time
> he/she will have to devote to answering the questions.
>
>3.  The survey when it asks questions like: Would you like
> to see project XYZ implemented?, then almost immediately
> asks: If so, how much money would you be willing to
> pledge to this project right now?  This seems more like
> an attempt to bully people out of their money, rather than
> an attempt to collect some blind data about support for a project.
>
>The approach for money should take place separately from the
>survey which should be blind only data collected.
>
>I think a lot of people in our community have caught onto this unfair
>approach, and may have given up on responding to such surveys.
>Consequently, LiveCode Ltd., isn¹t getting enough data to make
>correct assessments with their surveys.
>
>Just my 2 cents. :-|
>
>Rick
>
>
>> On May 13, 2016, at 12:36 PM, Richard Gaskin <rich...@livecode.org>
>>wrote:
>> 
>> To help turn myriad list posts into actionable information, LiveCode
>>conducts several surveys of the user base each year...
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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[Kevin Miller]

These are valid points. I covered a great deal of ground in that
presentation however this was an angle that I missed. I certainly didn¹t
intend any offense with that omission and if I gave any then I do
apologize for that. We are all extremely grateful for the many ways the
community contributes.

I¹m also pleased to see a number of new contributions this week which is
wonderful.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 13/05/2016, 17:52, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of rich...@livecode.org>
wrote:

>-hh wrote:
>
> > I can't forget this community-trivializing pie chart
> > "The Story of community"(see webinar at 6:37), based on
> > pull requests: 2% community, 98% LiveCode (ignoring
> > the fact that many pull requests of the LC-team are
> > essentially based on time-consuming community LC QC
> > reports).
>
>Pull requests are a seductive focus for measuring community engagement
>because the stats are automatically provided by Github.
>
>But I agree that it's a mistake for any project to measure by that
>single index, as so many do.
>
>In addition to bug reporting and triage, there are also many other
>categories where the community plays a strong supporting role for the
>project.
>
>A few days ago I listed some of the outstanding work being done by so
>many educators in our community to introduce LiveCode to teachers and
>students around the world, and in areas like community technical support
>we see Bernd and Klaus and yourself making very significant
>contributions throughout the forums to help newcomers feel more
>empowered as they learn LiveCode.
>
>One of the reasons I advocated using the livecode.org domain exclusively
>for the Community Edition is so that we can do a better job of providing
>acknowledgment for the full scope of community contributions.
>
>If you have any thoughts on how we might track those better I would be
>keen to hear them.  Unlike pull requests, which are tallied
>automatically for us, other forms of community contributions are more
>difficult to track, often relying on subjective assessment (and without
>sufficient coffee too easy to forget something important).
>
>Any ideas you or others here have for better assessing and acknowledging
>community contributions would be very welcome.
>
>-- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  LiveCode Community Liaison
>  rich...@livecode.org
>
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Re: Infinite LiveCode - Message from CEO

[Kevin Miller]

Thanks very much for your support Roland.

I¹m sorry if the campaign timing doesn¹t line up well for you. We¹ve tried
various campaign lengths and longer doesn¹t materially improve the outcome
overall. If it was a massive campaign we might consider 30 days but its
not so large that there is a benefit to doing that. Now we are post 8 we
need to plan with certainty what our path is as quickly as possible. And
bear in mind that if this campaign funds this feature will be with you in
around 3 months, rather than coming to the end of a campaign then!

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 13/05/2016, 10:10, "use-livecode on behalf of Roland Huettmann"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
roland.huettm...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I pledged, but the dates given are by far too short - May 23 is just
>around
>the corner. I could pledge more given more time, but currently away on a
>trip. I think 3 months pledge time should be normal.
>
>Roland
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Re: How to Force Group to Show on Top of Browser Widget

[Kevin Miller]

The workaround for the moment is to use a borderless window that floats on
top with a handler to keep it in place if you resize the underlying stack.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 13/05/2016, 09:26, "use-livecode on behalf of Peter TB Brett"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
peter.br...@livecode.com> wrote:

>On 13/05/2016 04:14, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>> Our new app design will show video in the browser widget, streamed from
>>YouTube.
>>
>> Because we need to use the entire card (almost) to maximize the videoŠ
>>the browser widget is set 16 X 9 but inset from top and sides  to 686w X
>>385 tallŠ bottom is 414 (flush to the bottom of the card)
>>
>> The browser widget is set to layer 1, the lowest/farthest back "bottom"
>>layer
>>
>> So, we have to hide the bottom tool bar from the user to show the video.
>>
>> The Nav bar is set to the top layer of the card
>>
>> So we do this on open card:
>>
>> on preopencard
>>setOrientation
>>hide grp "homeScreensBottomNav"
>> end preopencard
>>
>> by the side of the video, the 25px open space I have the 3 Vertical Dot
>>icon which has this script.
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>  show group "homeScreensBottomNav"
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> But if the video is activeŠ  the group will appear. Its as if the
>>browser widget commands all the pixels of it's rect, regardless of what
>>other object may have a higher layerŠ
>>
>> Any solutions?
>
>There aren't any solutions yet.  This is due to the way the browser
>widget works.  All LiveCode controls are drawn in a single "native"
>(i.e. operating system) layer, and the browser view is drawn in an
>additional "native" layer.  In order to layer the browser behind
>LiveCode controls, it would be necessary to teach the engine to split
>the LiveCode controls between as many "native" layers as necessary.
>
>This would be a lot of work, and drawing LiveCode controls on top of
>browser widgets isn't something that many people seem to be able to need
>to do, so it hasn't been done yet.
>
>You may want to monitor bug 17614, which tracks this very problem.
>
>   Peter
>
>-- 
>Dr Peter Brett <peter.br...@livecode.com>
>LiveCode Open Source Team
>
>LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>
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Re: Speed of LCB

[Kevin Miller]

Measuring speed in the context of LCB is a bit different to measuring the
speed in LiveCode script.

If you are calling a lower level library then the speed of LCB is almost
irrelevant as the lower level code will be doing heavy lifting fully
compiled.

When it comes to things like the speed of rendering objects, there are so
many advantages to the way that LCB does it - e.g. the widgets written to
paint just the viewable area (the early prototype list example we did had
10K elements and scrolled smoothly on the very lowest end devices) that I
doubt the speed of execution comes into play.

Where it does matter a bit more are for things like JSON processing. That
said lets see if even as it stands it is an issue for the main use cases
of that library. If it is, it is a new language and there is a great deal
of optimization that we can and will do over time.

And in answer to the machine code compilation question, yes we designed it
like that from the outset so one day in the future that is a possibility!

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 10/05/2016, 16:58, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
ambassa...@fourthworld.com> wrote:

>David Bovill wrote:
>
> > Richard mentioned that LCB can be / is magnitudes slower than Livecode
> > script for certain tasks?
>
>I don't believe I have sufficient data to have made such a specific
>claim.  If I did I was mistaken, as I've not seen enough scripts
>offering equivalent functionality written in both LC Script and LC
>Builder to have been able to provide guidance that precise.
>
>A few weeks ago I did reply to Monte's question here about whether to
>write a library in Script or Builder, and I noted that if the primary
>consideration were execution speed (development speed had already been
>addressed) LC Script would seem the favorable choice.
>
>This was based on two pieces of anecdotal information, one of which I've
>learned is questionable in terms of direct comparison:
>
>- "LiveCode Builder performance improvements" is in the "Planned"
>section of the Roadmap, a good place for it given that Builder
>just premiered in v8 and there's the old adage about premature
>optimization.
>
>- I had run one test in a field validation library which is available
>   as both LC Builder and LC Script:
>   <http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=16=26653>
>
>I was discussing the latter with Peter recently and he reminded me that
>LC Builder doesn't yet have regex support.  So while some chunk
>expressions in LC Script outperform some regex operations, in that case
>it seems likely that regex may play a strong role in the measurable
>performance benefit of LC Script in the one function I benchmarked from
>that library.
>
>So until someone writes a set of tests that are truly equivalent in LS
>Script and LC Builder, any performance benefit one way or another is
>unknowable.
>
>Since optimization of LC Builder is already on the Roadmap, and the need
>for optimization of LC Script is both more pervasive in terms of
>affected users and well known by the team, for myself I'd wait until
>both optimization efforts are completed before spending too much time
>with benchmark comparisons between them.
>
>That said, if someone has an immediate need for such a comparison I'd be
>curious to see the scripts and the results.
>
>
> > Perhaps it's time to look at a speed comparison between various ways
> > to encode and decode JSON in Livecode.
>
>Neither LC Script nor LC Builder will likely outperform the C++ used in
>available JavaScript engines.
>
>Ideally that optimized code in machine-compiled form would become
>available to us, both for rebustness and performance as JSON's role in
>daily work continues to expand.
>
>I would imagine Monte's external will outperform any scripted
>implementation.
>
>
> > I thought jsonImport would wrap a C library - but looking at the code
> > on GitHub
> > 
><https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/extensions/libraries/js
>on/json.lcb>it's
> > all native LCB I think. That would make no sense if LCB was slow?
>
>My (likely naive) hope is that LC Builder's tighter internal structure
>will one day lend itself to becoming machine compilable.  I can dream,
>can't I? :)
>
>
> > Does anyone have a speed testing app / framework - in the spirit of
> > open source I'd rather not keep rollin my own :)
>
>I do a lot of benchmarking, but my needs are modest so I have no
>framework per se beyond a simple script I reuse, similar to the variant
>in this post:
>
>Project: Perfor

Re: IPv6 for iOS??

[Kevin Miller]

Much of the dev team is having time off now that the launch is out,
however I¹ll escalate this issue next week. I¹m sure they will be
delighted!

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 05/05/2016, 20:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Todd Fabacher"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of tfabac...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I know this was on the feature thing once, but was funded. But Now it
>seems
>that Apple will NOT accept anything but IPv6 starting June 1. So what are
>our options because the Internet lib for LiveCode only supports IPv4:
>
>http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-drops-ipv4-internet-support/
>
>Will LiveCode be able to replace the internet lib so fast??
>
>--Todd
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Re: Community PDF Project (was Revenue and the Open Source edition)

[Kevin Miller]

If you need something more on Android and want to write it we would be
more than happy to support you doing that in LCB.

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 05/05/2016, 19:20, "use-livecode on behalf of Todd Fabacher"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of tfabac...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Actually Kevin, sorry but...
>
>users need to be aware about Android. The statement "Bear in mind however
>that basic display is already possible with the browser included in all
>editions of LC." is not 100% accurate. A PDF does NOT display within the
>web browser in Android. We ended up having to use the Android mergExt
>external to display a PDF. This is an Android issue, not LiveCode, but
>this
>is all the more reason the community should band together and get a PDF
>viewer created. I will be happy to contribute some resources!!!
>
>But I agree with Kevin. Everyone shouts Open Source, but few are willing
>to
>put in the time and efforts it takes to make it happen. Send me an email
>if
>you are interested in the PDF viewer. I will get one of my C guys to start
>looking into it. We just need to learn LiveCode Builder.
>
>--Todd
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Re: First experience with LC 8.0's Interactive Welcome

[Kevin Miller]

We will be doing this. We had intended to do it already but just didn¹t
have time before launch. Thanks.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 06/05/2016, 15:15, "use-livecode on behalf of Earthednet-wp"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
proth...@earthednet.org> wrote:

>Quentin's feedback is indeed fabulous. It is very difficult for
>experienced coders to write tutorials that work for newbies. This was a
>huge problem in the create-it course. My oceanography students schooled
>me in this and it was a mind-opening experience to look over their
>shoulder as they tried to use my creations. Also, the kind of feedback
>that Quentin is writing could be much more easily gotten by getting a
>high school student or other newbie who will work for cheap, and simply
>watch them go through the tutorials. You will soon become more familiar
>with these issues and will get better at anticipating their challenges.
>This is a case where you really don't want to rely on user feedback for
>refinements.
>



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Re: LC8 Geometry Manager with DataGrid

[Kevin Miller]

Deprecated? Did I miss the memo?

I does not appear to be working with data grids for me either though. I
would file a bug report.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 05/05/2016, 19:27, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Kerner"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
mikeker...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

>I believe the GM has been deprecated, unfortunately.  You have to do it
>manually, or set up substacks with different layouts.  If you use tmc, the
>job is a bit easier.  What are you working on, T?
>
>On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Terence Heaford <t.heaf...@icloud.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> The Geometry Manager does not work with a DataGrid?
>>
>> Not for me?
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Terry Heaford
>>
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>
>
>
>-- 
>On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>On the second day, God created the oceans.
>On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
>And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Community PDF Project (was Revenue and the Open Source edition)

[Kevin Miller]

Almost right. We were aiming for complete parity for the heavier weight
browser renderer in the widget to provide perfect cross platform
compatibility and for exactly these sorts of reasons but it wasn't
possible due to some platform specific issues we found integrating the
framework.

However PDF should still work on all platforms because:

Windows & Linux are CEF (Chromium)
Mac is WebView (WebKit based)
iOS is UIWebView (WebKit based)
Android is Android WebView


Mac & iOS WebKit can handle it (we had originally planned to use Chromium
on everything to get a completely consistent experience but had to
withdraw it due to Mac specific CEF bugs).

On Android there is an extra step:

If your PDF is at:
http://livecode.com/mydoc.pdf


You need to wrap it with the Google doc viewer by setting the widget URL
on Android to:
http://docs.google.com/gview?embedded=true=http://livecode.com/mydoc.pd
f


Chromium should be able to handle PDF on Windows/Linux. That said I did
just see a crash when trying it just now on Windows (avoidable for now by
using the same method as for Android). Panos has filed a bug :)


Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 05/05/2016, 16:56, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
ambassa...@fourthworld.com> wrote:

>Kevin Miller wrote:
>
> > On 05/05/2016, 16:10, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >
> >>Kevin Miller wrote:
> >>
> >> > ...basic display is already possible with the
> >> > browser included in all editions of LC.
> >>
> >> That's kind of a big deal. I'm not sure how so many of us missed
> >> that, but basic display on a card is all most people have been
> >> asking for. Super cool.
> >>
> >> Anyone here using that? Working well on the platforms you're
> >> deploying to?
> >
> > I am, and have been for some time as it happens!
>
>Seems most missed that in whatever Release Notes that was mentioned in.
>
>It never would have occurred to me that a browser engine would also
>include its own embedded PDF renderer, separate from any that might be
>included in the OS (and IIRC Windows doesn't include one out of the box).
>
>Providing a PDF renderer along with the rest of the HTML rendering with
>that browser engine is definitely something work noting in a bullet
>point somewhere.
>
>-- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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Re: Community PDF Project (was Revenue and the Open Source edition)

[Kevin Miller]

I am, and have been for some time as it happens!

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 05/05/2016, 16:10, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
ambassa...@fourthworld.com> wrote:

>Kevin Miller wrote:
>
> > ...basic display is already possible with the
> > browser included in all editions of LC.
>
>That's kind of a big deal.  I'm not sure how so many of us missed that,
>but basic display on a card is all most people have been asking for.
>Super cool.
>
>Anyone here using that?  Working well on the platforms you're deploying
>to?
>
>-- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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Re: Community PDF Project (was Revenue and the Open Source edition)

[Kevin Miller]

I think its worth a quick chime in here. The total development costs for
XPDF ran into the tens of thousands of dollars. Our acquisition/trade cost
for them was not cheap either. It is unlikely we could recoup that
investment or invest in them further (as we plan to do) selling these as
low cost add ons. They need to within the Business license. That isn¹t to
say that from time to time some features might trickle down but we have no
immediate plans to do that at the moment.

Of course we¹d welcome a community project to display PDF and if you want
support and pointers on how to do that with a widget we¹ll be happy to
help. Bear in mind however that basic display is already possible with the
browser included in all editions of LC.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 04/05/2016, 18:28, "use-livecode on behalf of Paul Dupuis"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of p...@researchware.com>
wrote:

>On 5/4/2016 12:13 PM, RM wrote:
>> I would suppose the ideal thing would be both something that allows
>> one to render a PDF document,
>> and extract all or part of an embedded text layer (if one exists in
>> the original PDF).
>
>The XPDF external from LiveCode for OSX and Win is based on Google's
>PDFium library. I can say this because I know something about the
>details of XPDF. Researchware (my company) development XPDF and recently
>transferred the rights to LiveCode.
>
>Richard is correct in that the XPDF external not only opens and displays
>a PDF, but allows zooming, navigation, layout, hyperlinks, selection of
>text (for PDFs with editable text) or any potion of any page as an image
>selection, and allows you to extract text or images. It also supports
>password protected PDFs and more. Therefore, if ALL you want is just to
>display pages from a PDF it is certainly more than you may need. The
>same could be said about the feature set of LiveCode itself.
>
>Richmond just showed that some people want more - in his case,
>extraction of all of part of the text. If you ONLY want to do that under
>script control, then that would be an incremental effort over just
>displaying a PDF.
>
>If you want the USER to be able to select text (or images), then that is
>a significant chunk of work beyond just displaying a PDF as the PDFium
>library contains NO APIs for user selection and that must be original
>code added by the external. A large amount of effort went into making
>sure user selection of text was as good as Adobe or Preview or Foxit's
>PDF viewers, which was definitely not as easy as one might expect (or
>hope)!
>
>I can tell you that a LOT of developer time (i.e money) went into the
>creation, QA testing, and refinement of XPDF.
>
>Obviously, since Google PDFium is open source, anyone can create an
>alternative to XPDF, perhaps an even better version. If people want to
>build one, I encourage it. A competitive market of LiveCode PDF widgets
>just gives me more choice for my company's PDF needs ;-) However,  I
>offer the caution of experience that there are a lot more little
>"gotchas" in working with PDFium that anyone may realize, even after
>reading the APIs, and making another from scratch may be much more work
>than people might expect.
>
>I think those interested in PDF might be better off continuing to lobby
>for LiveCode to offer XPDF as an add-on (like so many other excellent LC
>add-ons from Chartmaker to Wordlib to RRP Spell) for a appropriate
>price. It seems only logical that eventually they would convert it to an
>LC8 Widget as well.
>
>
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Re: Revenue and the Open Source edition

[Kevin Miller]

On 04/05/2016, 13:38, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Kerner"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
mikeker...@roadrunner.com> wrote:


>It also bears repeating that I have told Kevin, and others, that I think
>there is not enough bang for the buck for the Business edition, so we
>don't
>buy it.

That will be changing very fast now that 8 is done.

>LCC is FOSS.  Take it, fork it, run with it.  Hell, there is nothing
>stopping me from fixing the things in the SE that I want fixed, or added.
>We paid whatever it was into the KS because we wanted the security of
>knowing that in the event that LC ever dies, the code will still be there,
>should we, or someone else, choose to pick it up and go with it, without
>having to go through all the hogwash of Administration to get it.

Absolutely. I¹m sure we would all love to see more contributions, whether
that be to the core, the IDE or the documentation.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



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Re: Revenue and the Open Source edition

[Kevin Miller]

We can either prioritize bug fixes for the good of the user base as a
whole, or we can prioritize a bug that affects your project today. The
former we do automatically, the latter has a cost for us and a benefit for
you, thus the service. We¹ve had great feedback from our commercial
customers who have chosen to use that service periodically.

I do appreciate the input on licensing. It is never possible to please
everyone. We will do what works for the majority and provides sufficient
resource for us to continue to work on this platform we all rely on. Lets
move on.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 04/05/2016, 11:12, "use-livecode on behalf of Kaveh Bazargan"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
ka...@rivervalleytechnologies.com> wrote:

>It's all getting too complicated...
>
>On 4 May 2016 at 10:39, RM <richmondmathew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> To this I would just like to point out that in my "other" email I have
>>been
>> offered the chance to PAY Livecode to fix THEIR bugs:
>>
>> https://livecode.com/services/priority-bug-fixes/
>>
>> That seems a bit odd.
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>>
>> On 4.05.2016 09:53, Terence Heaford wrote:
>>
>>> It seems to me as a ³community² user that there is no community.
>>>
>>> There only appears to be those that want to pay, those that can¹t
>>>afford
>>> to pay and those that don¹t want to pay for ideological reasons.
>>>
>>> I, personally do not feel part of a community.
>>>
>>> When I read the discussions (not just this thread) the majority seem to
>>> revolve around how to monetise the ³community² for the benefit of LC
>>>and
>>> how can we convert a ³community² user to a paid user.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that there are a number of people who subscribe to this
>>> mailing list who want to own the product (rather than rent) and that is
>>> understandable (I am probably one of those).
>>>
>>> But, to put it quite simply, I cannot afford it, it is to expensive for
>>> me ( a loss for me and a loss for live code).
>>>
>>> If I were to produce a fantastic product that I thought would be useful
>>> to a great many people, I may want to give it away for free but under
>>>the
>>> present arrangement I would not
>>>
>>> bother because I would not want to give away my coding effort.
>>>
>>> Could probably go on forever but I think that¹s enough.
>>>
>>> The end of my 2 pence worth.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Terry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>-- 
>Kaveh Bazargan
>Director
>River Valley Technologies
>@kaveh1000
>+44 7771 824 111
>www.rivervalleytechnologies.com
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Windows Media

[Kevin Miller]

I intended to provide an update on this a little while back but forget,
apologies. The new player for Windows, which uses DirectShow within the
existing player object instead of QuickTIme will be in 8.1, with a DP
build either next week or in three weeks time depending on how various
things go.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



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Re: 8.0.0 RC 1 Text Properties all gone?

[Kevin Miller]

I had the same question yesterday but forgot to ask while I was in the
office today. I¹ll look forward to your documentation :)

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 18/04/2016, 18:42, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
jac...@hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

>On 4/18/2016 5:15 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>> For example, on OS X, the system font to be used in user text fields
>> (Styled Text) is different from the system font to be used on Buttons
>> (Message).
>
>Do you have a list of what each pseudo-font name relates to, so I can
>attempt documentation? For example, I wouldn't have guessed that a
>button would use a style named "Messages". And if a field uses "Styled
>text" then what would plain "Text" be for?
>
>-- 
>Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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Re: US government tells Windows users to uninstall QuickTime

[Kevin Miller]

Thanks Tiemo, we¹ve seen this issue appear in the news. We¹re actively
working on an interim solution now and I¹ll aim to update you on what that
looks like early next week.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 15/04/2016, 12:37, "use-livecode on behalf of Tiemo Hollmann TB"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of toolb...@kestner.de>
wrote:

>I have the first customers following this advice and tell me that my
>software is completely out of date. I am loosing customers.
>
> 
>
>When will LiveCode provide the new Mac & Windows compatible media player?
>
>It was one of the crowdfunding aims and I haven't heard much about it
>anymore.
>
> 
>
>Tiemo
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
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Re: Licensing questions again (was: Glen Bojsza "LC 8 hard question...")

[Kevin Miller]

Your language is completely unacceptable on this list.

I find in life it is generally far more productive and and conducive to
pleasant stress-free living to assume another party does not have negative
intentions unless proven otherwise. I do not believe in our long years of
history we have given you evidence that supports the idea that we take
away rights of customers after the fact. And I do not believe you are
privy to the conversation that has taken place between support and this
customer.

I¹ve reviewed the thread between Heather and Wilhelm and I can see that no
such withdrawal of rights after the fact has taken place. Wilhelm simply
does not yet appear to fully understand the extensive explanation that
Heather supplied. Perhaps we can improve the way we communicate these
complexities in the future.

This list is definitely not the place to discuss this. I¹m sure Heather
and Wilhelm will reach a point of understanding through normal channels.
And in the mean time I would expect no repeat of this sort of language
here.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 01/03/2016 17:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
matthias_livecode_150...@m-r-d.de> wrote:

>>This view is not being supported by "Livecode Support". They claim that
>>since the licensing scheme changed to "subscription" in April 2013, my
>>perpetual license at that time was somehow affected and mutated to
>>subscription style, too, as it were "on the fly". I was never informed
>>about such a change during the Kickstarter campaign and I doubt that
>>such a silent change could be legally justified.
>Sorry for that expression, but if that is the view of the support team ,
>then that is bullshit. If you bought a perpetual license, then this
>license allows you to use at least the version that was current at the
>time when you purchased that license for ever. There was also the
>possibility to purchase an ³additional year of upgrades². All new
>released versions within that year were added to your license. That might
>be the reason why your perpetual license in your account shows the range
>4.5.x to 6.1.0.
>
>I am not a lawyer, but i am pretty sure they cannot change your perpetual
>license to a subscription license without your confirmation and without
>any notification.
>
>I am confident that they will find a satisfying solution for you. I´ve
>had always good experiences with them discussing license questions.
>



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Re: leap to future

[Kevin Miller]

Sorry if it wasn¹t clear in the article. HTML5 remains a separate license.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 18/02/2016 21:47, "use-livecode on behalf of -hh"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of h...@livecode.org> wrote:

>Kevin M. wrote:
>> see in detail https://livecode.com/leap-to-future/
>
>Yes, LC is great, worth its pricing, even if one is not using
>any of Monte's iOS externals: The other core-developers will
>have more time for their valuable work by that personal expanding.
>
>But sadly your explanations to the Indy license are quite unclear
>relating to HTML5.
>
>1. You argue with HTML5 development for the raise of Indy pricing.
>2. Recently we had to buy *separate* licenses for HTML5 deploying.
>
>Please explain the issue "HTML5" in detail for the example of a
>locked $499 Indy license.
>
>===
>Hermann 
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/leap-to-future-tp4701170.ht
>ml
>Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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mergExt Acquisition

[Kevin Miller]

Dear All,

As Monte mentioned on this list yesterday, we are delighted to announce a
very exciting acquisition for LiveCode: we have purchased the full suite of
the invaluable mergEXT externals for iOS. These will shortly be included
with your Indy or Business license purchase. We will also be hiring Monte to
work for us full time. Over time our team will work with Monte over the
course of the coming months to turn the mergEXT suite into integrated
widgets that work cross platform where appropriate.

You can read all about this acquisition here:

https://livecode.com/merging-with-mergext/

You guys don't need to be told just how valuable Monte is going to be to our
team! We can't wait to start working with him.

The addition of mergEXT adds a huge amount of value to the license packages.
We also have a staggering list of new features and benefits coming with
LiveCode 8, in the near, medium and longer term future. We are adjusting our
pricing strategy to account for this added value, incrementally over time.
You can read all about this here:

https://livecode.com/leap-to-future/

Right now, you can still get everything including the mergEXT addons for the
current price of Indy, and you can lock in at that price.

Footnote: For those of you with an Indy or Business license already, we need
to ask for your patience. It is going to take us a little time to drop the
mergEXT suite into your accounts retrospectively. Please don't write to
support to ask why its not there yet, for at least a week! :) We will send
out an announcement when it is all done and you can go look for it in your
account. We are working on that now.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps


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Re: [ANN] mergExt News

[Kevin Miller]

Indeed, we are super delighted by this and to be welcoming Monte. The plan
is to turn the best of these externals into widgets and make them cross
platform over the course of the year.

The ink is literally only dry on this deal minutes ago, we were planning
to take another day or so to button up the Q around this and carefully
announce it to you all. We are doing that now! :) We¹ll answer your
question(s) when that is done.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 17/02/2016 11:21, "use-livecode on behalf of Ben Rubinstein"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of benr...@cogapp.com>
wrote:

>This is great news for LiveCode.
>
>Thank you Monte for your incredible work.
>
> > exclusively licensed
>
>How does that effect existing licensees?
>
>Ben
>
>On 17/02/2016 11:01, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> Hi LiveCoders and in particular mergExt users!
>>
>> Today I have a rather large announcement to make about mergExt. mergExt
>>Externals are now exclusively licensed to LiveCode Ltd. The intention is
>>for most or all of the externals to be available to LiveCode Indy
>>licensed users.
>>
>> We will aim to have little or no interruption of access to the
>>externals for exisiting users. I will continue to maintain the suite,
>>however, the support queue will now be via supp...@livecode.com. I will
>>be joining the development team soon and look forward to being able to
>>work on the platform and extensions full time.
>>
>> Thanks to all those that have supported mergExt over the years!
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Monte
>
>
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Re: Multiple Mobile Shutdown Messages?

[Kevin Miller]

You might also be interested to know that the whole issue with background
apps/suspend/resume will be much improved in LC 8. All this time working
on the various architecture projects is letting us address all kinds of
longstanding issues! There will still be some work to do on the part of
the developer to use this properly, we'll document what you need to do and
think about when this is ready.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 02/02/2016 23:18, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
sc...@tactilemedia.com> wrote:

>Actually, openStack seems to work the same -- not sent after resuming from
>being backgrounded.  So several options to be had :-)
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Scott Rossi
>Creative Director
>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>
>
>
>
>On 2/2/16, 3:11 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi"
><use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>sc...@tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>
>>OK, it looks like the "startup" message is indeed the way to go: sent
>>when
>>launching fresh, not sent when launching after suspended.
>>
>>Thanks guys.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Scott Rossi
>>Creative Director
>>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 2/2/16, 2:25 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi"
>><use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>>sc...@tactilemedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks for the suggestions.  The pList option could work, but what
>>>message
>>>is sent when launching the stack from the backgrounded state?  Resume?
>>>
>>>Thanks & Regards,
>>>
>>>Scott Rossi
>>>Creative Director
>>>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On 2/2/16, 1:19 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Kerner"
>>><use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>>>mikeker...@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I haven't played with this, but thinking aloud:
>>>>1) Set the plist so the app doesn't exit on suspend
>>>>2) Therefore, you won't get an exit message unless the app is quit.
>>>>Set
>>>>a
>>>>flag
>>>>3) on preOpenStack check for the flag.
>>>>
>>>>On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Scott Rossi <sc...@tactilemedia.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm wondering if there are different messages sent on mobile (iOS)
>>>>>when
>>>>>an
>>>>> app is backgrounded versus when the app is swipe-dismissed (removed
>>>>>from
>>>>> the list of backgrounded apps).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm trying to set up a sort of "reset" behavior in an app that allows
>>>>> starting from screen 1 instead of starting from the last saved point.
>>>>>I'm
>>>>> saving user settings normally in a on shutDown handler, but I can't
>>>>>figure
>>>>> out it there's some way to detect when the app has been "fully
>>>>>closed"
>>>>> (removed), so when the user relaunches the app it knows to start
>>>>>fresh
>>>>> from screen 1.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only thing that comes to mind is a time stamp and setting an
>>>>>arbitrary
>>>>> session time threshold, like 10 minutes: if the user relaunches
>>>>>within
>>>>>the
>>>>> time limit they go back to where they left off, but if relaunching
>>>>>outside
>>>>> the time limit, they start over.  Obviously this isn't ideal as it
>>>>>forces
>>>>> a 10 minute wait to really start over.  Is there another message
>>>>>besides
>>>>> shutDown that I'm missing?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd prefer not to use a reset button as this is never done on iOS --
>>>>>when
>>>>> apps are removed from the backgrounded apps list, they usually "know"
>>>>>to
>>>>> start over.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks & Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Rossi
>>>>> Creative Director
>>>>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
>
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Re: [On-Rev] TIO: again all index files were overwritten

[Kevin Miller]

Its been a fairly concerted attack, we’ve been stretched dealing with it.
To my knowledge we were on top of the tickets today, I will follow up with
David again now.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 18/01/2016 20:16, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
matthias_livecode_150...@m-r-d.de> wrote:

>Kevin,
>
>the index files have a changed date 17.01.2016 7:00 GMT+1. That was
>yesterday.
>When were the things restored? I informed support today morning by
>emergency request at 08:15 GMT+1.
>Did not hear back from support. So i phoned Heather at 10:00GMT+1.
>But nothing changed. Until now i did NOT get an answer to my emergency
>request. 11 hours later ! ! !
>And my data is still broken. Btw. that´s the 2nd time that i have to
>restore it on my own. The last time i had also to restore the data on my
>own. because there was a problem with your backup.
>
>And why is no one able to inform customers about this incident, so the
>customers can check if their data is broken or not?
>
>Matthias
>
>
>
>
>> Am 18.01.2016 um 21:00 schrieb Kevin Miller <ke...@livecode.com>:
>> 
>> Yes, the attacker returned again and used a different vector to achieve
>> the very same task. We responded within minutes and were able to stop
>>the
>> attack fairly rapidly. Mostly things have been restored, if you¹re not
>> back to normal let us know through the usual channels.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 18/01/2016 18:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Jim Lambert"
>> <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of j...@netrin.com>
>>wrote:
>> 
>>> Matthias,
>>> 
>>> It is not just your account. I can confirm that the TIO index files
>>>have
>>> been overwritten on my account too.
>>> 
>>> Jim Lambert
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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Re: [On-Rev] TIO: again all index files were overwritten

[Kevin Miller]

Yes, the attacker returned again and used a different vector to achieve
the very same task. We responded within minutes and were able to stop the
attack fairly rapidly. Mostly things have been restored, if you¹re not
back to normal let us know through the usual channels.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 18/01/2016 18:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Jim Lambert"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of j...@netrin.com> wrote:

>Matthias,
>
>It is not just your account. I can confirm that the TIO index files have
>been overwritten on my account too.
>
>Jim Lambert
>
>
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Re: Happy Christmas!

[Kevin Miller]

Merry Christmas everybody. Thanks for making the LiveCode community what it is. 
I hope you are all having a wonderful holiday. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Dec 2015, at 10:42, Peter TB Brett  wrote:
> 
> Happy Christmas to all our users and contributors!
> 
>   Peter
> 
> -- 
> Dr Peter Brett 
> LiveCode Open Source Team
> 
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Re: Motif look...

[Kevin Miller]

Correct.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 03/12/2015 16:02, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Schonewille"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com> wrote:

>Hi Glen,
>
>I think not. It looks like widgets are going to be the main road for GUI
>elements.
>
>Kind regards,
>
>Mark Schonewille
>http://economy-x-talk.com
>https://www.facebook.com/marksch
>
>Buy the most extensive book on the
>LiveCode language:
>http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com
>
>Op 12/3/2015 om 16:37 schreef Glen Bojsza:
>> I was wondering if there is a plan or timeline when the Motif look for
>>iOS
>> applications will be replaced with something else?
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Glen
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Re: On-Rev Support not responding ?

[Kevin Miller]

I¹m not aware of any particular delays in processing on-rev support at the
moment. I¹ll investigate this question for you.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 03/12/2015 17:03, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
matthias_livecode_150...@m-r-d.de> wrote:

>I received answers that way in the past.
>
>But in recent months, this does not seem to work very satisfactorily.
>I am pretty sure it´s not David´s fault. The problem seems to be that
>David is actually the only one who is fixing the bigger on-rev problems.
>I mean that kind of problems Heather cannot solve.
>
>It´s  a lack of manpower at the moment.
>
>I really hope that Livecode Ltd. will change this asap.
>
>Matthias
>
>
>
>> Am 03.12.2015 um 15:33 schrieb j...@souslelogo.com:
>> 
>> Hi list
>> I sent a support request to on-rev by email to   supp...@on-rev.com,
>> on nov. 24th, then got the automatic response, but nothing after that...
>> When I send urgent requests (using the online form at on-rev.com)
>> I always get an answer, but when the request isn't urgent it seems
>> logical to send normal messages...
>> Did anyone ever get an answer that way ?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> jbv
>> 
>> 
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Re: Dinner's on me

[Kevin Miller]

You should be able to set the quantity during purchase? I¹ll bug report it
against the store though I don¹t think we¹ll be able to fix it until
tomorrow now.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 30/11/2015 18:31, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Talluto"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use...@canelasoftware.com> wrote:

>Sounds great! How do we purchase more than one ticket?
>
>-Mark
>
>
>> On Nov 30, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kevin Miller <ke...@livecode.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I greatly enjoy our conferences as an opportunity to meet and really
>>talk
>> with you. So I'm delighted that the next 12 purchasers of a LiveCode
>> Conference ticket will get an invite to dinner with me. Get your ticket
>> today and join me for drinks in my flat followed by dinner in a local
>> restaurant I really like. It'll be a blast! And I'll do my best to
>>persuade
>> Mark Waddingham to join us. This is your opportunity to talk shop and
>>tell
>> me what you do with LiveCode, what you want us to do next, and discuss
>>how
>> we can collaborate to make LiveCode ever better.
>> 
>> Edinburgh 2016. August. See you there!
>> 
>> https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> 
>> 
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Dinner's on me

[Kevin Miller]

Hi all,

I greatly enjoy our conferences as an opportunity to meet and really talk
with you. So I'm delighted that the next 12 purchasers of a LiveCode
Conference ticket will get an invite to dinner with me. Get your ticket
today and join me for drinks in my flat followed by dinner in a local
restaurant I really like. It'll be a blast! And I'll do my best to persuade
Mark Waddingham to join us. This is your opportunity to talk shop and tell
me what you do with LiveCode, what you want us to do next, and discuss how
we can collaborate to make LiveCode ever better.

Edinburgh 2016. August. See you there!

https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps


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Re: Dinner's on me

[Kevin Miller]

Ok, you are penciled in. Apologies for the store issue.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 30/11/2015 19:20, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Talluto"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
use...@canelasoftware.com> wrote:

>Ok. Please pencil me in for two more. I do not want to miss out on the
>deal for spouses/partners.
>
>-Mark
>
>
>> On Nov 30, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Kevin Miller <ke...@livecode.com> wrote:
>> 
>> You should be able to set the quantity during purchase? I¹ll bug report
>>it
>> against the store though I don¹t think we¹ll be able to fix it until
>> tomorrow now.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 30/11/2015 18:31, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Talluto"
>> <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
>> use...@canelasoftware.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Sounds great! How do we purchase more than one ticket?
>>> 
>>> -Mark
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 30, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kevin Miller <ke...@livecode.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I greatly enjoy our conferences as an opportunity to meet and really
>>>> talk
>>>> with you. So I'm delighted that the next 12 purchasers of a LiveCode
>>>> Conference ticket will get an invite to dinner with me. Get your
>>>>ticket
>>>> today and join me for drinks in my flat followed by dinner in a local
>>>> restaurant I really like. It'll be a blast! And I'll do my best to
>>>> persuade
>>>> Mark Waddingham to join us. This is your opportunity to talk shop and
>>>> tell
>>>> me what you do with LiveCode, what you want us to do next, and discuss
>>>> how
>>>> we can collaborate to make LiveCode ever better.
>>>> 
>>>> Edinburgh 2016. August. See you there!
>>>> 
>>>> https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Kevin
>>>> 
>>>> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ___
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>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Edinburgh Conference In August

[Kevin Miller]

We made the timing right before the festival starts, the idea being it
should be possible to get reasonable accommodation for the event before
the city gets super busy. Those that want to can then stay longer. I would
recommend booking ahead though it does get busy here. It is for sure the
best time of year to visit Edinburgh. There is a real buzz about the city
with just about anything you can imagine to go see at the worlds largest
arts festival!

We wanted to get the ticket price as low as possible to encourage as many
as possible to attend. To do that we¹re keeping things super simple this
year in order to keep the administration costs to an absolute minimum. So
we won¹t handle the hotel bookings this time. However I expect in the
coming days we¹ll put up a list of possible venues and recommendations for
you all to help you choose where to stay. I¹m sure Alex¹s flat will book
up fast :)

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 28/11/2015 12:05, "use-livecode on behalf of Dave Kilroy"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
d...@applicationinsight.com> wrote:

>Very much looking forward to this shindig! I booked a place last night and
>since then have been hitting airbnb trying to get a reasonably priced
>place
>to stay. Accommodation will indeed be trickier because of the festival -
>but
>Edinburgh mid-festival is a great place to be :)
>
>
>
>-
>"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
>- Albert Einstein
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Edinburgh-Conference-In-Aug
>ust-tp4699146p4699158.html
>Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: Death of the Application Browser

[Kevin Miller]

Richmond,

Real people work at LiveCode. Often they work long hours and are here late
into the evenings. We care a great deal about our community.

I was out of the office yesterday and returned today to find two team
members stressed and demotivated. I enquired as to the cause. They felt
that your posts were a personal attack on their good work and wholly
unrepresentative of their intentions. Considering the intensity of the
work undertaken of late I must say that strikes me as very unfair.

I have reviewed your posts and they fall way below an acceptable standard
of politeness or respect. Would you really like to be on the receiving end
of some of the comments you wrote? Will you consider an apology?

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 26/11/2015 20:24, "use-livecode on behalf of Richmond"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
richmondmathew...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 26/11/15 22:02, Mark Wieder wrote:
>> On 11/26/2015 10:36 AM, Richmond wrote:
>>
>>> Although I would still like to know why it has been downgraded to a
>>> Plug-in.
>>
>> Actually, I don't see that as a downgrade at all.
>> Making it a plugin allows it to be more malleable, fixable,
>> replaceable. Taking it out of the IDE hierarchy should give us more
>> options to work on the Application Browser. Since the team wants to do
>> other things,
>
>Aah, so the team isn't going to bother to listen to the Community
>because it wants to do other things;
>so it is chucking the Application Browser out to grass.
>
>> it's up to the community to fix the AB, and making it a plugin makes
>> it easier to do so.
>
>Makes me wonder, again, again, about that word: "community".
>
>R.
>
>
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Re: LiveCode support

[Kevin Miller]

We never ignore support emails and queues are not backed up at the moment.
Have you checked your spam filter? If not then sure, give us a call and
I¹m sure we can sort it out.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 20/11/2015 08:47, "use-livecode on behalf of David V Glasgow"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of dvglas...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Hello folks
>
>My Indy license stopped working in September (should be good until 2017),
>and Heather was actively trying to sort the problems out.
>
>Then it all went silent.  There has been no response to my last 4 emails
>(ticket number is in subject line).  I haven¹t been cross or offensive,
>and there is no dispute about whether I have a license, so I don¹t think
>I am being ignored intentionally!
>
>Does anyone know if there an alternative address I can try, or should I
>just give them a ring?
>
>Cheers,
>
>David G
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Re: A different take on directorywalking

[Kevin Miller]

Indeed he has. However I suspect that it may be this patch in fact goes
into DP10 as it is still undergoing final refinements. We are keen to keep
the momentum up with 8 and would like to get a DP9 out imminently to
resolve some other issues that have come up. We will be aiming for a DP10
only days behind though, so not long to wait (touchwood!).

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 11/11/2015 15:47, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
ambassa...@fourthworld.com> wrote:

>Better still: Mark recently revamped the lineoffset function to greatly
>improve its performance.  In v7 the Unicode libraries afforded an
>opportunity to add a very valuable feature to lineoffset, the ability to
>use even a multi-character string as the lineDel.  However, the
>pattern-matching needed for multi-char strings is much more complex than
>for a single char which has slowed it down for the most common
>single-char use case, so now the engine uses a different method for
>single- and multi-byte chars to optimize each usage.
>
>When these get folded into a delivered build (v8DP9 I presume) it would
>be helpful to re-check earlier benchmarks.
>



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Re: QT/Win vulnerability and strutting Builder's stuff

[Kevin Miller]

Indeed, that is a big part of the point of all this work on the widget
architecture. Multimedia will of course be a widget and a lot of the
groundwork is now there with the work done for the browser. We can also do
other things very quickly now, like wrap the existing mobile controls you
create using syntax as widgets.

It seems my non-coding pensioner parents are finally getting the point of
widgets too. Tonight they came round to deliver some meals they had made
for me, with a dish labeled ³a widget of apple sauce, to be reused for
different meals².

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 04/11/2015 18:42, "use-livecode on behalf of Trevor DeVore"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
li...@mangomultimedia.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, November 4, 2015, Richard Gaskin
><ambassa...@fourthworld.com>
>wrote:
>>
>>
>> A new player-like control wouldn't need editable text, so if it's within
>> the scope of what Builder can do today perhaps it's not only a good use
>> case for showing off Builder but also knocks one of the most desirable
>> Kickstarter goals, yes?
>>
>
>Hopefully the work that was done to create the browser widget in
>DP-8 laid the necessary foundation for the multimedia control. Given my
>(limited) understanding, it appears that displaying a browser in a widget
>and sending callbacks uses the same underlying widget features that
>displaying a media player would require. I could be at off though.
>
>-- 
>Trevor DeVore
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Re: QT/Win vulnerability and strutting Builder's stuff

[Kevin Miller]

Good question. We do have an answer. We¹ll think through carefully how
best to set expectations here and post a more detailed response on this in
the morning.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 04/11/2015 20:46, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
ambassa...@fourthworld.com> wrote:

>Kevin Miller wrote:
>
>> Indeed, that is a big part of the point of all this work on the widget
>> architecture. Multimedia will of course be a widget and a lot of the
>> groundwork is now there with the work done for the browser. We can also
>>do
>> other things very quickly now, like wrap the existing mobile controls
>>you
>> create using syntax as widgets.
>
>Very exciting.
>
>What is the release date for v8.0 Stable, and in which version might we
>expect the new player-like control?
>
>-- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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Re: Open Language and stability

[Kevin Miller]

We did not promise a cherry. We are not going to promise a cherry. No cherry is 
planned. We will not be held accountable for non-delivery of said item. 

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 16:23, Richmond <richmondmathew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 25/10/15 17:45, Kevin Miller wrote:
>> Absolutely. Open Language is at the very end of the list. The cake has to
>> be fully risen before we add icing.
> 
> Aah: super, at last; but "by Gum" it takes a lot of 'heavy-lifting' to get 
> this sort of definite statement.
> 
> Love, Richmond.
> 
> P.S. What's the cherry, then?
> 
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 25/10/2015 13:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon"
>> <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of gcan...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> As someone who *really* wants open language, I completely agree with
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> gc
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Graham Samuel <livf...@mac.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may
>>>> well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the
>>>> actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on
>>>> all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking
>>>> about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the
>>>> use list?
>>>> 
>>>> Graham
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Re: Open Language and stability

[Kevin Miller]

Absolutely. Open Language is at the very end of the list. The cake has to
be fully risen before we add icing.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 25/10/2015 13:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of gcan...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>As someone who *really* wants open language, I completely agree with
>this. 
>
>gc
>
>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Graham Samuel <livf...@mac.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The discussion about Open Language is interesting, and the idea may
>>well be a good thing. But I for one would rather hear that for the
>>actual development team, delivering a rock-solid version of LiveCode on
>>all supported platforms is taking a massive priority over even thinking
>>about this stuff. Peter Brett, can you reassure me, as a member of the
>>use list?
>> 
>> Graham
>
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Re: IPV6...

[Kevin Miller]

Yes, noted thanks. We¹ll have an announcement on this in the coming weeks.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 29/09/2015 14:07, "use-livecode on behalf of Glen Bojsza"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of gboj...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I would assume that the Livecode team is already aware of this and has a
>delivery plan without it they wouldn't be able to claim to be able to make
>iOS apps.
>
>True? Not True?
>
>Kevin can maybe comment.
>
>On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Malte Brill <revolut...@derbrill.de>
>wrote:
>
>> Well, I just stumbled upon this:
>>
>> https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=08282015a <
>> https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=08282015a>
>>
>> this might get serious even earlier than I thoughtŠ
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Malte
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Re: Feature Exchange Process

[Kevin Miller]

We will fix it! It definitely ends tomorrow.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 27/09/2015 18:45, "use-livecode on behalf of Kaveh Bazargan"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of
ka...@rivervalleytechnologies.com> wrote:

>Is the clock wrong on this page:
>
>https://livecode.com/project/
>
>Looks like it is mistaking Sunday for Monday, i.e. 75 mins to go now.
>​
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Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card

[Kevin Miller]

I think this is a really important principal. Always use the highest level
language you can for any given project. Offering that very high level
language option is a big part of LiveCode's reason for being.

Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a lower
level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an intermediate
LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. It is
going to excel at certain tasks. However we should always choose to use it
only when it offers clear advantages above LiveCode Script for the project
that outweigh the extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its very
tempting having added a whole new language to build everything in that,
but we must carefully resist that temptation and use it judiciously, only
for what it is best at.

That pragmatic point out of the way, I haven¹t dug into the ins and outs
of the Script Editor since LCB originated to know what the arguments are
on either side. So I¹m not saying I know the right answer here. I know the
tech team have done some more work looking on that but I haven¹t seen any
definite conclusions from that effort as yet as we have other priorities
in getting the first version of 8.0 out the door just now.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 20/08/2015 16:49, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote:

Ali Lloyd wrote:
 I doubt we will be writing a whole new script editor from scratch in one
 go.

Wise, for all the reasons Joel talks about here (good link, Scott):
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog69.html


 More likely we will replace individual elements with widgets (as has
 been done with the variables pane) to make sure all the components work
as
 expected.

LiveCode 8's Builder language will be an exciting addition to the
platform, at long last allowing the dev team to enjoy the same benefit
the rest of us choose LiveCode for: not having to work in C++, able to
use a high-level scripting language for much greater productivity.

With the IDE things are even better:  it's already written in a
high-level scripting language.  Why not use LiveCode Script?

If we can't build a good text editor in LiveCode, what are any of us
doing here?

Fortunately we can.  Indeed LiveCode is an excellent tool to build such
things with, as it is right now.

LiveCode Builder is a great alternative to C++, but there's no true need
to replace LiveCode Script elements with new LiveCode Builder
implementations.

Doing so merely overloads the already-laden v8 dev cycle, and worse it
prevents backporting solutions to the product that is currently the
company's sole source of revenue, v7.  Conversely, everything written
for v7 goes along for the ride seamlessly to v8, the clearly winning
option for things already in script.

The ROI of writing things in LC Builder that might otherwise have
required C++ is unquestionable.  And similarly unquestionable is the
benefit of using the current scripting language for things already
written in the current scripting language.

Somewhere down the road there might be a reason to rewrite those, but
right now the downsides seem so clearly outweighing the upsides on every
level, from technical to revenue to marketing (do we really intend to
convey the message that LiveCode can't be used to build a text editor?),
it would seem optimal to just dive in an optimize what we have.

This thread began with a sober realization of the difficulty of
estimation vs. actual delivery times.  I'm a programmer too, so I
appreciate the seductive attraction of greenfield projects; no one like
working in other people's code.  But most programming is exactly that,
and as Joel points out it's extremely rare that a working system can
benefit from a complete rewrite, when all that's needed are some
optimizations and a very small number of new and rather discrete features.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  
  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card

[Kevin Miller]

Yes. I was talking about developer productivity. 

 On 20 Aug 2015, at 18:32, Colin Holgate colinholg...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I imagine you meant that it’s faster to program in, as opposed to faster 
 performance.
 
 
 On Aug 20, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Kevin Miller ke...@livecode.com wrote:
 
 Now we have a third choice, an intermediate
 LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script.
 
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Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card

[Kevin Miller]

There is documentation up in the DP of 8 that is out there.

We will be having a Global Jam shortly so everyone can get together to
learn how to create Widgets. Stay tuned for more details.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 20/08/2015 18:51, JB sund...@pacifier.com wrote:

One thing that would really help with
developing in LCB would be to have
some examples of C++ code and the
same code showing how you write it
using LCB.

John Balgenorth


On Aug 20, 2015, at 10:39 AM, Roger Eller roger.e.el...@sealedair.com
wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Kevin Miller ke...@livecode.com
wrote:
 
 I think this is a really important principal. Always use the highest
level
 language you can for any given project. Offering that very high level
 language option is a big part of LiveCode's reason for being.
 
 
 Or primary (if not sole) reason for being, right?  If not for the ease
of
 HyperCard, I would not be here today, using LC.
 
 
 
 Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a lower
 level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an intermediate
 LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. It is
 going to excel at certain tasks. However we should always choose to
use it
 only when it offers clear advantages above LiveCode Script for the
project
 that outweigh the extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its
very
 tempting having added a whole new language to build everything in that,
 but we must carefully resist that temptation and use it judiciously,
only
 for what it is best at.
 
 
 Will there be a list, or guide to help a LC script user to know when to
use
 LCB?
 
 
 
 That pragmatic point out of the way, I haven¹t dug into the ins and
outs
 of the Script Editor since LCB originated to know what the arguments
are
 on either side. So I¹m not saying I know the right answer here. I know
the
 tech team have done some more work looking on that but I haven¹t seen
any
 definite conclusions from that effort as yet as we have other
priorities
 in getting the first version of 8.0 out the door just now.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 Kevin
 
 Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
 LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
 
 
 Thanks.
 ~Roger
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Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card

[Kevin Miller]

As we've said, we aren't removing anything. You've always been able to build 
for iOS in Community. The fact you can't deploy to the store is down to Apple's 
licensing incompatibility with the GPL, nothing to do with us and no change 
there on our part. 

 On 17 Aug 2015, at 20:18, Thomas McGrath III mcgra...@mac.com wrote:
 
 I haven’t posted in a long long time and I have a question.
 
 I just reread the entire Kickstarter Campaign promises and they state very 
 clearly that IOS deployment is included in the open source edition It will 
 run on every popular platform and device.” and “...running on six platforms - 
 Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android and Server” but on the new livecode pricing 
 page it states that “Note: IOS deployment is not included in the open source 
 edition”.
 
 I am really confused by this and was wondering which is true. I have always 
 paid for and had the biggest commercial version available and will probably 
 buy into the Indie version once they are up, but I convinced a lot of people 
 to contribute to the Campaign and am wondering if I owe them all apologies.
 
 Tom McGrath
 
 
 
 On Aug 17, 2015, at 2:47 PM, William Prothero proth...@earthednet.org 
 wrote:
 
 Terry:
 This was my concern.
 
 Richard:
 Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if I spread mis-information. But I did read it, 
 so the clarification is helpful, and appropriate (at least for me).
 Regards,
 Bill
 
 On Aug 17, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Terence Heaford t.heaf...@icloud.com wrote:
 
 
 On 17 Aug 2015, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com 
 wrote:
 
 and I don't recall seeing it on either the Kickstarter stretch goals
 
 
 Are we to conclude form all these type of comments that if it was not in 
 the KickStarter Stretch goals then it’s fair game to be omitted from future 
 Open Source releases and included in future Commercial releases?
 
 
 All the best
 
 Terry
 
 
 
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Re: Business Application Framework

[Kevin Miller]

Thank you to everyone for all your input so far.

Kickstarter was never intended to cover all development costs for
everything we do. Software moves on, platforms move on, development
continues at an astonishing speed in the digital world. Kickstarter was
intended to fund extra developers to help deliver the clearly defined
Kickstarter goals. It was also intended to allow you, the community, to
contribute more, directly, to the development of LiveCode.

We¹ve gone Open Source, done the refactor project, the last major piece
needed to fulfill the remaining stretch goals is the extensibility of 8.
That is maturing rapidly. We¹ve spent well over 2x the total we raised in
getting to where we are now. A big component of that is the funds that
come from our commercial licensing revenue. So from an Open Source backer
perspective, you should be aware that we¹ve more than match funded the
entire campaign so far! Yes, its taken longer than projected. This does
not lessen our commitment to any of it. Be comforted by this calculation:
delivering everything we've done so far *without* the crowdfunding
campaigns we estimate would have taken us around 15 years. We've done it
in two. Thank you.

We said during Kickstarter that the product would be dual licensed. That
means we have an Open Source Community Edition and a closed source
Commercial Edition. We made it clear we would continue to have a
commercial product. At no stage did we ever imply otherwise.

We¹ve tweaked the product lineup periodically as lots of tech companies
do. The Business License is an iteration on the Pro license which has been
in the store for a long time. The Business Framework and the other
business features we¹re working on have nothing to do with the Kickstarter
goals. Indeed success with these initiatives simply mean we¹re in a
position to further invest in Open Source, bringing many features that go
beyond the original Kickstarter goals. And with the extensibility coming
in 8, we expect to see far more code contributions and community created
widgets. That whole process will be far easier and offer much greater
flexibility to those of you that want to get more involved in the
Community side of things.

Anyone who knows us knows that we wouldn¹t do something like going Open
Source if it wasn¹t something we believed in. The fact that we have
delivered, and will continue to deliver, the vast majority of our effort
in that way speaks for itself and will continue to do so. You chose to
back a commercial company, and we have a responsibility to everyone to run
a viable organization that properly services the needs of our whole user
base. There is never a perfect way to please absolutely everyone,
compromises have to be made along the way. We continue to consult our user
base very widely, listen to feedback and carefully weigh things up so we
can balance the needs of as many in our community as we possibly can.
We¹ve done that, for the most part successfully for many years. That is
what we are going to continue to do.


Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




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Re: Business Application Framework

[Kevin Miller]

Yes.

Perhaps it would help to understand this in context if you look some more
at how some other dual licensed open source projects are run.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 13/08/2015 14:15, Terence Heaford t.heaf...@icloud.com wrote:


 On 13 Aug 2015, at 13:58, Kevin Miller ke...@livecode.com wrote:
 
 We said during Kickstarter that the product would be dual licensed. That
 means we have an Open Source Community Edition and a closed source
 Commercial Edition. We made it clear we would continue to have a
 commercial product. At no stage did we ever imply otherwise.


I for one have never doubted this butŠ.

Did you advise the Open Source backers at any point prior to or during
the KickStarter campaign that the Commercial product would be different
than the Open Source product except in the area of code protection?

I think this is the area where people are doubting the future of the Open
Source product.

You may have said nothing about this and this is the ³naivety referred
to in a number of posts.


All the best


Terry
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Re: Business Application Framework

[Kevin Miller]

Hi Brahmanathaswami,

Thank you for all your support, we really appreciate it.

Let me clarify a few things here.

The Business Application Framework is a framework for writing more serious
applications in LiveCode. It is far more than simply adding ³GitHub to
LiveCode. It brings in advanced concepts such as object-orientation, a
model-view controller architecture and hooks into data sync and other
heavyweight features. It is not for everyone. If you are an individual
building an application then you might want to evaluate whether its worth
the extra effort, level of complexity and abstractions associated with
using it.

If you want VCS in the Open Source Community or Indy edition, there is
already lcVCS out there, together with various other solutions we¹ve seen
people using. I would also remind you that LiveCode is Open Source (one of
the biggest goals of the KS campaign, delivered a month after). What this
means is that if you want you can build whatever features you like for it
and make them available. If you need features along these lines then you
can add them yourself. If you want features for free then you can make
them, or look to see if they are part of our extensive crowd-funded road
map and thus either being provided or coming shortly. If you want us to
provide things outside of that then yes, it costs money for us to make
them.

The Business License also comes with things like the ability to build
closed source applications for larger organizations and priority tech
support. If you are building a serious application in a team then you¹re
probably receiving considerable value from LiveCode. Options like this
framework, together with things like the technical support options, might
be a big help in getting additional value and productivity advantages from
the platform.

As far as your point about having a subscription into the future with
Indy, we are still delivering that. Nothing has changed. These business
features are brand new. They have not been mentioned in Kickstarter, in
the HTML5 campaign or indeed in any other public announcement that I¹m
aware of. 

We¹ve advertised a road map against these campaigns and are a good way
through on delivering the largest, most extensive, most capable versions
of LiveCode you¹ve ever seen. You¹re getting value from that road map with
LiveCode today, last year, next year and you¹ve paid a fair sum for that
value. I don¹t see what the problem is here. We do need to provide
solutions for different markets. In a model where the vast majority of
customers are using Open Source, we need to be providing good value to our
higher end customers in order to be viable and thrive. That lets us
continue to develop and support the platform proactively for everyone -
including the Open Source users, the Indy users like yourself and the
bigger business users who need these new features.

It is even possible that some of these new business oriented features will
filter down into Open Source at some point in the future. But for now,
they are aimed carefully at the needs of our more serious business
customers.


Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 12/08/2015 15:52, Brahmanathaswami, Sannyasin bra...@hindu.org
wrote:

Where did this announcement appear? I haven't seen it in my email and it's
not in my spam.

I have to agree.



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Re: Livecode Javascript Compiler

[Kevin Miller]

This is definitely an area we¹re looking at - its on the strategy list.
Just can¹t say yet whether it will be during the initial beta cycle or in
a v ³1.1² as it were. It will certainly be early in the evolution of this
technology.

In terms of LCB, remember we designed that from the start to capable
(eventually) of compiling directly to JavaScript. That opens up the
possibility of doing some lighter weight HTML5 specific frameworks down
the line. Right now though as Peter said, the priority for the first
version is to get as much as possible of the platform we already have
working.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 16/07/2015 11:53, Peter TB Brett peter.br...@livecode.com wrote:

On 2015-07-16 11:05, David Bovill wrote:
 Thanks Peter. What i am keen to get a grip on is how we can interface
 Livecode exported Javascritp with existing Javascript in a web page.
 Are we
 going to be stuck with an isolated blob of all Livecode-Javascript in a
 page? Or can I make Livecode-Javascript widget that talk to existing
 pages?
 
 My thought would be if the core Livecode C++ engine has now been
 refactored
 so that the language element - separate from all the GUI and even
 message
 stuff - and that this bit was easy and fast to get exported - then that
 would be what we need to create interface independent Javascript
 libraries
 - let's say a library that takes some JSON and exports some JSON with
 the
 webpage handling all the rest of the interactions?
 
 How well will these exported Livecode-Javascript apps play within a web
 page - what sort of bi-directional communication is being looked at?

Hi David,

We're not actively working towards any of these things at the moment.
*In principle*, they're all ideas that we'd love to get working!  In
practice, at the moment we're just trying to get stacks to run properly,
and we're going to think about branching out to these other exciting
possibilities once we get towards that point.

I'm personally quite keen on the idea of figuring out how to compile
LiveCode Builder programs directly to JavaScript, for example!

This is definitely the sort of thing that enthusiastic community members
could play with, once we release the Community edition of HTML5 support.

Peter

-- 
Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com
LiveCode Engine Development Team


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Re: Status of on-rev restore?

[Kevin Miller]

Almost all the accounts have been restored, there are a small handful of
issues remaining which as I understand it should be getting worked through
today. I am very sorry for the inconvenience that has been caused to those
affected. Once the issue has been fully resolved I will be leading a full
investigation into what happened and what procedures and processes can be
changed to prevent anything like this happening again.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 12/05/2015 10:06, Keith Clarke keith.cla...@me.com wrote:

I¹ve been waiting since the 7th on the promise of files and resources to
be recovered into my empty account.

There was a suggestion that it may be a permissions issue rather than
missing resources, but radio-silence since then, so I¹ve just chased
again. Worryingly, I didn¹t receive an auto-response email, so I hope
their ticketing system is not down, too!

Meanwhile, I can¹t recreate folders or databases that used to exist and
so I¹m stuck until my ticket comes up in the queue.

I¹ve transferred what I can to alternative hosting arrangements and it
looks like I¹ll need to recreate my LC server environment elsewhere, too.

Hopefully, others have been more lucky - or been more prepared with their
own backup  DR strategies to mitigate the on-rev.com platform / service
as a single point of failure!  :-(
Best,
Keith.. 
 
 On 12 May 2015, at 09:38, j...@souslelogo.com wrote:
 
 Hi list
 Just curious : is anyone still waiting for his/her account on pancake to
 be restored ?
 Thanks
 jbv
 
 
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Re: HTML5...

[Kevin Miller]

Should have something more to announce in this soon. 

 On 29 Apr 2015, at 20:06, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On 29/04/15 19:17, Glen Bojsza wrote:
 Can someone outline what version and approximately when in the development
 timeline we will start being able to generate HTML5 from LC.
 
 thanks,
 
 Glen
 ___
 
 It is very odd that having run that Kickstarter campaign we have heard nothing
 about the HTML5 thing at all.
 
 http://www.google.com/url?sa=trct=jq=esrc=ssource=webcd=3cad=rjauact=8ved=0CC0QFjACurl=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTake_the_Money_and_Runei=gytBVc_MJoXsmAW00oGICAusg=AFQjCNEevVZQoPBsvRM45zUz2Gbx7ZHBNQbvm=bv.92189499,d.dGY
 
 But, Hey, I'm waiting for a good few things from the Open Source Kickstarter 
 which seem to have fallen by the wayside . . .
 
 Richmond.
 
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Re: Keynote

[Kevin Miller]

Yes - will do. 

Sent from my iPhone

 On 13 Mar 2015, at 12:03, Colin Holgate colinholg...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 If you have the time, maybe while traveling, can you let us know what the 
 reaction is like at SXSW?
 
 
 On Mar 13, 2015, at 12:00 PM, Kevin Miller ke...@livecode.com wrote:
 
 On my way to Austin for SXSW just now.
 
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