Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
At 01:16 AM 1/3/2013, Jojo Jaro wrote: OK, why can't the President of the United States make a special request to get his long form. You say there was no legal way, but in fact there is. Abercrombie has enough authority by himself as governor to do this. Obama could make a 2 minute phone call and the Bither issue would be resolved once and for all. Why not do this simple thing? Over 60% of America want it, why not do it. This question has been answered many times. I'll do it again. Since Abercrombie has been mentioned, let's let him respond: http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf As can be seen, unless Abercrombie is *lying through his teeth*, the President *did* make a special request to get his long form. I never said there was no legal way to get a *copy*. I said there was no legal way to get the *actual long form original* out of the vault for public display. It can be taken out and copied upon a request by certain legally interested individuals. Abercrombie is not one of them. If over 60% of the American people want it, they are sadly misinformed, because it was done in 2011, the certified copy was displayed at a press conference, reporters got direct copies of it (not scans) and a scan was released on the internet so that everyone can see it and read it. Birthers, however, have kept repeating old and thoroughly discredited claims, I've seen many of them recently. It goes to show
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
That is where you are wrong my friend. A TRUE Christian will not find a call to Idolatry beautiful. A muslim call to prayer is a call to pray to a false god (allah the moon god) in front of an idol (kabah - a meteroite stone.) Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Jojo, you do not speak for true Christians. I know many Christians and others who find the Muslim call to prayer beautiful. On Jan 1, 2013, at 12:44 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Other than what he wrote in his autobiography, no. But his autobiography is a revealing work into his psyche. He mentioned that the muslim call to prayer was the most beautiful sound he has heard. High praise from a supposed Christian. Beautiful in that the music or melody is beautiful, but beautiful in the sense of worship it inspires. I can tell you now that a true Christian will NOT find a call to prayer to a moon god beaustiful and inspiring. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies This is incorrect, Jojo. Do you have any evidence for your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 30, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
I've already said, you can not enroll into this muslim school that Obama enrolled in if you were not registered as a muslim. And any adoption of a child by an Indonesian muslim man automatically makes the child a muslim. That was the law. Research it my friend. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Your statements about nationality and about adoption and nationality are incorrect. What is your evidence for Obama being registered as a Muslim? On Jan 1, 2013, at 1:11 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: While what you are saying about Indonesian schools may be true today - I am not knowledgeable about the current school system in Indonesia, so I will not debate that. While that may be true, it surely wasn't true in the 70's when Obama went there. Records show he was registered in that school as a muslim. One more thing, he was adopted by an Indonesian muslim. If he was adopted to be an Indonesian, he would have automatically lost his U.S. citizenship and gained Indonesian citizenship and automatically became a muslim. In Indonesia, you gain the religion of your adoptive father. Indonesia does not have and never had a Dual Citizenship program with the US. Which means that he would have had to reacquire his US citizenship when he reached 18. He had to do something to gain back his US citizenship. Which automatically made him a naturalized US citizen, not a Natural-Born US citizen required by our constitution. One of my cousins was in the same boat and he was born about the same time as Obama. He was born in U.S. soil (New York) but his parents brought him back to the Philippines. By US law, as a minor, he has no official citizenship status if there is a question as to his citizenship. In my cousin's case, he was born on US soil to Filipino parents. Hence, his citizenship status was in limbo, until he can make a decision when he turns 18. He can choose to be Filipino or US citizen.When my cousin turned 18, he had to go to the US Embassy to choose US citizen and get his papers (passport). He is considered a Naturalized US citizen. A person that has to take action to gain US citizenship is not a Natural Born US citizen. This is the status of Obama even if he was indeed born in Hawaii. He would still be a Naturalized US citizen and hence unqualified. So, as you can see, Obama is unqualified to be POTUS on many fronts. The argument about whether he was born in Hawaii or not is just one aspect of his qualification (non-qualification) to be POTUS. In a free society like America, such questions about his qualifications should have been vetted openly. If there was even a hint as to his qualifications, it should have been settled publicly and openly. Why don't people take this issue seriously. Even if people think that his BC was original and valid, people should still be calling for it to be settled once and for all. Open up the vault copy. No other steps or half measures will do. Great controversies require great measures to settle. Let the Birthers see it and it they are wrong, you get the chance to humiliate them to your heart's content. If I am wrong about this, I'm sure I will have great shame and tuck my tail between my legs and go away quietly. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies The earlier posting on muslim schools is confused. Some Muslim schools have a curriculum that is based solely on the Qur'an. This kind of school would only attract non-Muslim students interested in the Qur'an, or in the culture of Islam. Some Muslim schools have a standard secular curriculum, and are attended mostly by Muslims, thus confusing some into calling them Muslim schools. Some Muslim schools are merely called such because they operate in a Muslim country, like Indonesia. This is like calling US public schools Christian because they operate in a predominantly Christian country. To suggest that President Obama must be a Muslim because he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia is a statement that at best is meaningless. On Dec 31, 2012, at 4:37 AM, Nigel Dyer wrote: Indeed. There is a Catholic school in Birmingham, UK, where the majority of pupils are Muslim http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birminghams-catholic-school-where-90-of-the-pupils-231115 Nigel On 31/12/2012 04:40, Jojo Jaro wrote: Yes, Christian catholic schools are more tolerant of other faiths, but not muslims. You can not go to a muslim school like the one Obama went to unless you are a muslim. Before
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Chuck, if you believe that Obama is a Natural-Born US citizen, then why not just open up access to a innocuous piece of document. Why not show all brithers the vault BC. It's simple my friend. It will end the controversy. Instead of doing that, you resort to accusations about treason because I will not swallow the bambi propaganda. You know, that's what they did in Naxi Germany. Anyone who would not swallow the propaganda was a traitor. I am loyal to my country, my Constitution. I have sworn an oath to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. The illuminati and their puppet bambi, are DOMESTIC enemies of our Constitution. They treat that sacred law as a piece of toilet paper but continuing to ignore its clear specific requirement. The POTUS MUST be a natural-born US citizen. Jojo PS. I see you have employed a tactic that many have employed. Instead of saying natural-born US citizen, you say Native born citizen. There is no such thing as a Native Born citizen. That is not a legal classification. The proper classification is a Natural-Born US citizen. I believe you do this intentionally to add confusion to the issue. NO one reads my posts. Really? LOL. Do you want me to tell you how many private emails I get about my posts? Do you want me to tell you how many offline discussions I am having with some vortex members? - Original Message - From: Chuck Sites To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies I'm sorry to break from scientific debates on Cold Fusion, but to be honest, JoJo has dominated this mailing list for several weeks now with very little response and light response from the Vortex-L mail list. If I may, I would like to suspend the rules and use 4 letter words If that is OK with you all, good old JoJo will get an insult so low, his shins might hurt from all of the fish bites. so Jojol You know, all I can say is your beliefs are treasonous. You say Obama is unqualified to be POTUS on many fronts. President Obama is certainly qualified to be POTUS on all levels. In fact he has been one of the best POTUS's since Clinton. You might as well say, I hate the USA. You obviously a birther, since you seem to believe the notion that Obama is not a native born citizen. That is just goofy thinking. Only a dingbat righty would take that as fact. You have been attacking Lomax for his religion. Why don't you tell us right here and right now what your religion is if you have one. We can then pick on every odd thing that your religion believes. Based on everything you have said, it probably involves eating little babies (sarcasm). Bottom line Jojo, is no one on this email lists likes your posts or even reads them. You message is irrelevant and always Off Topic! Go away an hassle some body on huffington post, On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 1:11 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Obama is unqualified to be POTUS on many fronts.
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Again, Jojo, you are neither representative of Christianity, nor able to speak for Christians. It is arrogant -- and revealing -- for you to suggest that you do. On Jan 2, 2013, at 4:11 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: That is where you are wrong my friend. A TRUE Christian will not find a call to Idolatry beautiful. A muslim call to prayer is a call to pray to a false god (allah the moon god) in front of an idol (kabah - a meteroite stone.) Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Jojo, you do not speak for true Christians. I know many Christians and others who find the Muslim call to prayer beautiful. On Jan 1, 2013, at 12:44 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Other than what he wrote in his autobiography, no. But his autobiography is a revealing work into his psyche. He mentioned that the muslim call to prayer was the most beautiful sound he has heard. High praise from a supposed Christian. Beautiful in that the music or melody is beautiful, but beautiful in the sense of worship it inspires. I can tell you now that a true Christian will NOT find a call to prayer to a moon god beaustiful and inspiring. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies This is incorrect, Jojo. Do you have any evidence for your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 30, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
I repeat, what is your evidence for these bizarre statements, Jojo? On Jan 2, 2013, at 4:13 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: I've already said, you can not enroll into this muslim school that Obama enrolled in if you were not registered as a muslim. And any adoption of a child by an Indonesian muslim man automatically makes the child a muslim. That was the law. Research it my friend. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Your statements about nationality and about adoption and nationality are incorrect. What is your evidence for Obama being registered as a Muslim? On Jan 1, 2013, at 1:11 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: While what you are saying about Indonesian schools may be true today - I am not knowledgeable about the current school system in Indonesia, so I will not debate that. While that may be true, it surely wasn't true in the 70's when Obama went there. Records show he was registered in that school as a muslim. One more thing, he was adopted by an Indonesian muslim. If he was adopted to be an Indonesian, he would have automatically lost his U.S. citizenship and gained Indonesian citizenship and automatically became a muslim. In Indonesia, you gain the religion of your adoptive father. Indonesia does not have and never had a Dual Citizenship program with the US. Which means that he would have had to reacquire his US citizenship when he reached 18. He had to do something to gain back his US citizenship. Which automatically made him a naturalized US citizen, not a Natural-Born US citizen required by our constitution. One of my cousins was in the same boat and he was born about the same time as Obama. He was born in U.S. soil (New York) but his parents brought him back to the Philippines. By US law, as a minor, he has no official citizenship status if there is a question as to his citizenship. In my cousin's case, he was born on US soil to Filipino parents. Hence, his citizenship status was in limbo, until he can make a decision when he turns 18. He can choose to be Filipino or US citizen.When my cousin turned 18, he had to go to the US Embassy to choose US citizen and get his papers (passport). He is considered a Naturalized US citizen. A person that has to take action to gain US citizenship is not a Natural Born US citizen. This is the status of Obama even if he was indeed born in Hawaii. He would still be a Naturalized US citizen and hence unqualified. So, as you can see, Obama is unqualified to be POTUS on many fronts. The argument about whether he was born in Hawaii or not is just one aspect of his qualification (non-qualification) to be POTUS. In a free society like America, such questions about his qualifications should have been vetted openly. If there was even a hint as to his qualifications, it should have been settled publicly and openly. Why don't people take this issue seriously. Even if people think that his BC was original and valid, people should still be calling for it to be settled once and for all. Open up the vault copy. No other steps or half measures will do. Great controversies require great measures to settle. Let the Birthers see it and it they are wrong, you get the chance to humiliate them to your heart's content. If I am wrong about this, I'm sure I will have great shame and tuck my tail between my legs and go away quietly. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies The earlier posting on muslim schools is confused. Some Muslim schools have a curriculum that is based solely on the Qur'an. This kind of school would only attract non-Muslim students interested in the Qur'an, or in the culture of Islam. Some Muslim schools have a standard secular curriculum, and are attended mostly by Muslims, thus confusing some into calling them Muslim schools. Some Muslim schools are merely called such because they operate in a Muslim country, like Indonesia. This is like calling US public schools Christian because they operate in a predominantly Christian country. To suggest that President Obama must be a Muslim because he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia is a statement that at best is meaningless. On Dec 31, 2012, at 4:37 AM, Nigel Dyer wrote: Indeed. There is a Catholic school in Birmingham, UK, where the majority of pupils are Muslim http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birminghams-catholic-school-where-90-of-the-pupils-231115 Nigel On 31/12/2012 04:40, Jojo Jaro wrote: Yes, Christian catholic schools are more tolerant of other faiths, but not muslims. You can not go to a muslim school
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Fine, if you do not want to accept it, then don't. I've already said it. Do your own research. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies I repeat, what is your evidence for these bizarre statements, Jojo? On Jan 2, 2013, at 4:13 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: I've already said, you can not enroll into this muslim school that Obama enrolled in if you were not registered as a muslim. And any adoption of a child by an Indonesian muslim man automatically makes the child a muslim. That was the law. Research it my friend. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Your statements about nationality and about adoption and nationality are incorrect. What is your evidence for Obama being registered as a Muslim? On Jan 1, 2013, at 1:11 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: While what you are saying about Indonesian schools may be true today - I am not knowledgeable about the current school system in Indonesia, so I will not debate that. While that may be true, it surely wasn't true in the 70's when Obama went there. Records show he was registered in that school as a muslim. One more thing, he was adopted by an Indonesian muslim. If he was adopted to be an Indonesian, he would have automatically lost his U.S. citizenship and gained Indonesian citizenship and automatically became a muslim. In Indonesia, you gain the religion of your adoptive father. Indonesia does not have and never had a Dual Citizenship program with the US. Which means that he would have had to reacquire his US citizenship when he reached 18. He had to do something to gain back his US citizenship. Which automatically made him a naturalized US citizen, not a Natural-Born US citizen required by our constitution. One of my cousins was in the same boat and he was born about the same time as Obama. He was born in U.S. soil (New York) but his parents brought him back to the Philippines. By US law, as a minor, he has no official citizenship status if there is a question as to his citizenship. In my cousin's case, he was born on US soil to Filipino parents. Hence, his citizenship status was in limbo, until he can make a decision when he turns 18. He can choose to be Filipino or US citizen.When my cousin turned 18, he had to go to the US Embassy to choose US citizen and get his papers (passport). He is considered a Naturalized US citizen. A person that has to take action to gain US citizenship is not a Natural Born US citizen. This is the status of Obama even if he was indeed born in Hawaii. He would still be a Naturalized US citizen and hence unqualified. So, as you can see, Obama is unqualified to be POTUS on many fronts. The argument about whether he was born in Hawaii or not is just one aspect of his qualification (non-qualification) to be POTUS. In a free society like America, such questions about his qualifications should have been vetted openly. If there was even a hint as to his qualifications, it should have been settled publicly and openly. Why don't people take this issue seriously. Even if people think that his BC was original and valid, people should still be calling for it to be settled once and for all. Open up the vault copy. No other steps or half measures will do. Great controversies require great measures to settle. Let the Birthers see it and it they are wrong, you get the chance to humiliate them to your heart's content. If I am wrong about this, I'm sure I will have great shame and tuck my tail between my legs and go away quietly. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies The earlier posting on muslim schools is confused. Some Muslim schools have a curriculum that is based solely on the Qur'an. This kind of school would only attract non-Muslim students interested in the Qur'an, or in the culture of Islam. Some Muslim schools have a standard secular curriculum, and are attended mostly by Muslims, thus confusing some into calling them Muslim schools. Some Muslim schools are merely called such because they operate in a Muslim country, like Indonesia. This is like calling US public schools Christian because they operate in a predominantly Christian country. To suggest that President Obama must be a Muslim because he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia is a statement that at best is meaningless. On Dec 31
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
At 04:13 AM 1/2/2013, Jojo Jaro wrote: I've already said, you can not enroll into this muslim school that Obama enrolled in if you were not registered as a muslim. And any adoption of a child by an Indonesian muslim man automatically makes the child a muslim. That was the law. Research it my friend. Jojo has obviously not researched this, or he's lying. When the story came out, it was in a Moonie publication that attributed the claim to the Clinton campaign in 2008. Clinton denied it. So CNN and another major media source sent reporters to the school itself. It's a public school with students from every major religion present in Jakarta. There was a different school involved, a Catholic school, where Obama seems to have been registered as a Muslim. Jojo was actually asked for a source here, but he did not provide it, he simply repeated his claim, that's his normal practice. I recall seeing a story that Obama was indeed registered as a muslim student. Things like this happen. His mother's husband, the head of household, was Muslim, and he has a Muslim name, so the school may have merely assumed he was Muslim. It actually means very little about his actual religion, and he was a young child at the time. The adoption would make the child eligible to be treated as a muslim, I think that Jojo might be correct about that. So what? Jojo's claims about U.S. citizenship are idiosyncratic, common among birthers, and legally invalid. If someone is a U.S. citizen by right of birth, they are not a naturalized citizen. There is no case law on renounced citizenship on this, to my knowledge, but an automatic renouncement would clearly not apply. One can be a dual citizen, it does not negate natural born citizen. These are arguments that have been *demolished* elsewhere, being brought here. For coverage of birther issues, in general, I now refer to http://www.thefogbow.com/ On the adoption issue, see http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/three-theories/adopted-in-indonesia/ On the dual citizen issue, see http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/three-theories/two-citizen-parents/ Suppose, however, the one non-Catholic school at the time was only open to muslim students. Suppose that it was only opened to others later. This would have just about zero implication as to Obama's present religious affiliation. I forget how old he was, but it was certainly before the age at which people make informed decisions about religion. There is no sign that the school was a madrassa, a religious school. That was something simply alleged without evidence in the original story, apparently an assumption that a muslim school, in a majority muslim nation, would be religious. On the adoption claim, from Fogbow: Claim: There's evidence Obama was adopted in Indonesia. The only evidence is a http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/gallery/100312/GAL-10Mar12-4044/media/PHO-10Mar12-211335.jpghandwritten school http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/24/AR2007012400371_pf.htmlregistration page from the Santo Fransiskus Assisi (Saint Francis of Assisi) Catholic School in Jakarta, Indonesia, that refers to Obama as Barack Soetoro. However, according to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQPXVJuT2vYfeature=player_embeddedschool officials at the Assisi School, it was customary for students to be enrolled with their father's last name and religion. (That would mean that a male head of household was considered the father, whether or not there was a formal adoption. This is routine here, by the way, if the actual parent informs the school that he's to be treated that way. It can be complicated.) None of this has any legal significance whatever. If the birth certificates and legally-binding statements of Hawai'ian state officials are fake, that would be a real issue. But this wouldn't make a difference. Natural born citizen, it is totally clear, refers to place of birth. Period. There are exceptions under some circumstances for people born outside the U.S. There is some issue about children who lived outside the U.S. up to the age of 25. That didn't apply to Obama. And *none of this belongs on this list.* It's here only because Jojo has continued to make his off-topic and highly disruptive claims. No more original text below. Jojo - Original Message - From: mailto:ldebiv...@gmail.comde Bivort Lawrence To: mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.comvortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Your statements about nationality and about adoption and nationality are incorrect. What is your evidence for Obama being registered as a Muslim? On Jan 1, 2013, at 1:11 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: While what you are saying about Indonesian schools may be true today - I am not knowledgeable about the current school system in Indonesia, so I will not debate that. While that may
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Is there any beauty in your life? Harry On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:11 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: That is where you are wrong my friend. A TRUE Christian will not find a call to Idolatry beautiful. A muslim call to prayer is a call to pray to a false god (allah the moon god) in front of an idol (kabah - a meteroite stone.) Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Jojo, you do not speak for true Christians. I know many Christians and others who find the Muslim call to prayer beautiful.
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Lomax, please read up on the case of the Nordyke twins. They were born within a few days of Obama and they were able to obtain a long form copy of their BC. You lie once again by claiming that there is no legal way. Quite obviously there is, cause the Nordyke twins were able to do it. Please my friend, stop the lies. Where is Obama's long form BC. Not computer generated scans which are obviously fake. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 4:26 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 04:28 AM 1/2/2013, Jojo Jaro wrote: Chuck, if you believe that Obama is a Natural-Born US citizen, then why not just open up access to a innocuous piece of document. Why not show all brithers the vault BC. It's simple my friend. It will end the controversy. It's been shown to anyone who wants to see it, in the only legal way possible. By making copies available. What Jojo demands, with other birthers who have remained True to the Cause, is legally *impossible.* It would require removing an archive document from the archive. Not just one document, the entire book. Instead of doing that, you resort to accusations about treason because I will not swallow the bambi propaganda. Since Jojo goes into Bambi, I'll go into Idiot! Jojo claimed to want to end the cycle of insults. If that were true, it would be his obligation to end his own insulting, and Bambi is an insult, in context. You know, that's what they did in Naxi Germany. Anyone who would not swallow the propaganda was a traitor. The comment was unfortunate. However, there have been military personnel who, taken in by birther claims, refused lawful orders and who were court-martialed for that. That's military justice and only applies to those under a legal obligation to obey the President. That is an example of real damage done by birther claims. Naxi -- Nazi -- is totally irrelevant. One is free, in the U.S., to be a total idiot. It's not a crime, in itself. It may, sometimes, lead to criminal activity, that's another issue. Treason requires more than Bad Thinking. I am loyal to my country, my Constitution. I have sworn an oath to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. When did you do this, Jojo? I'm a natural-born citizen, I've never taken that oath. We know that you reside in the Philippines. Where were you born? Why do you call the U.S. my country? You don't live here, and, I assume, you don't pay taxes here. The illuminati and their puppet bambi, are DOMESTIC enemies of our Constitution. They treat that sacred law as a piece of toilet paper but continuing to ignore its clear specific requirement. The POTUS MUST be a natural-born US citizen. And all evidence points to the fact that he is. The birther claims have been totally trashed, and what is left is mere suspicion and innuendo. Few reputable birthers are left, it's only nuts and fruitcakes still beating the drum. In a few days, it is *totally over* as a legal issue. After the U.S. Congress certifies the election, even if it developed that Obama was actually smuggled into Hawaii as a baby, and had no right of citizenship by birth (there are details to be addressed there), it's *over.* The legal doctrine is *res judicata.* I somewhat doubt that Jojo understands the term, but he could resolve that doubt. At that point, to raise a successful challenge would require a showing that Obama committed a crime. Not merely a technical violation of a regulation, even if it is a constitutional one. The *only* institution with the power to consider such a claim is Congress, through impeachment, once the President is accepted by certification of the election. It's end-game time. A claim that no one reads Jojo's posts was naive polemic. So what? No more original text below. Jojo PS. I see you have employed a tactic that many have employed. Instead of saying natural-born US citizen, you say Native born citizen. There is no such thing as a Native Born citizen. That is not a legal classification. The proper classification is a Natural-Born US citizen. I believe you do this intentionally to add confusion to the issue. NO one reads my posts. Really? LOL. Do you want me to tell you how many private emails I get about my posts? Do you want me to tell you how many offline discussions I am having with some vortex members? - Original Message - From: mailto:cbsit...@gmail.comChuck Sites To: mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.comvortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies I'm sorry to break from scientific debates on Cold Fusion, but to be honest, JoJo has dominated this mailing list for several weeks now with very little response and light response from the Vortex-L mail list. If I may, I would like
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
A Hillary Clinton insider has claimed that Chelsea was threatened if Hillary made it public that he believed Obama was not Natural-Born US Citizen. Bill Clinton was prepared to cross the illuminati but he decided that Chelsea's life was more important than Hillary's presidency. Tell me, who was the first person to file a court case against Obama's ineligibility? Hint: http://obamacrimes.com/ The first person was a Hillary supporter. Not a Republican or a Birther. There was no Birther movement yet. He started the Birther movement and he was a Democrat supporter of Hillary. For sure, Hillary knew of Obama's ineligibility. But the illuminati promised her the Sec. of State post with the option to be World Bank President if she ceded POTUS to Obama; plus Chelsea's life. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 4:10 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 04:13 AM 1/2/2013, Jojo Jaro wrote: I've already said, you can not enroll into this muslim school that Obama enrolled in if you were not registered as a muslim. And any adoption of a child by an Indonesian muslim man automatically makes the child a muslim. That was the law. Research it my friend. Jojo has obviously not researched this, or he's lying. When the story came out, it was in a Moonie publication that attributed the claim to the Clinton campaign in 2008. Clinton denied it. So CNN and another major media source sent reporters to the school itself. It's a public school with students from every major religion present in Jakarta. There was a different school involved, a Catholic school, where Obama seems to have been registered as a Muslim. Jojo was actually asked for a source here, but he did not provide it, he simply repeated his claim, that's his normal practice. I recall seeing a story that Obama was indeed registered as a muslim student. Things like this happen. His mother's husband, the head of household, was Muslim, and he has a Muslim name, so the school may have merely assumed he was Muslim. It actually means very little about his actual religion, and he was a young child at the time. The adoption would make the child eligible to be treated as a muslim, I think that Jojo might be correct about that. So what? Jojo's claims about U.S. citizenship are idiosyncratic, common among birthers, and legally invalid. If someone is a U.S. citizen by right of birth, they are not a naturalized citizen. There is no case law on renounced citizenship on this, to my knowledge, but an automatic renouncement would clearly not apply. One can be a dual citizen, it does not negate natural born citizen. These are arguments that have been *demolished* elsewhere, being brought here. For coverage of birther issues, in general, I now refer to http://www.thefogbow.com/ On the adoption issue, see http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/three-theories/adopted-in-indonesia/ On the dual citizen issue, see http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/three-theories/two-citizen-parents/ Suppose, however, the one non-Catholic school at the time was only open to muslim students. Suppose that it was only opened to others later. This would have just about zero implication as to Obama's present religious affiliation. I forget how old he was, but it was certainly before the age at which people make informed decisions about religion. There is no sign that the school was a madrassa, a religious school. That was something simply alleged without evidence in the original story, apparently an assumption that a muslim school, in a majority muslim nation, would be religious. On the adoption claim, from Fogbow: Claim: There's evidence Obama was adopted in Indonesia. The only evidence is a http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/gallery/100312/GAL-10Mar12-4044/media/PHO-10Mar12-211335.jpghandwritten school http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/24/AR2007012400371_pf.htmlregistration page from the Santo Fransiskus Assisi (Saint Francis of Assisi) Catholic School in Jakarta, Indonesia, that refers to Obama as Barack Soetoro. However, according to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQPXVJuT2vYfeature=player_embeddedschool officials at the Assisi School, it was customary for students to be enrolled with their father's last name and religion. (That would mean that a male head of household was considered the father, whether or not there was a formal adoption. This is routine here, by the way, if the actual parent informs the school that he's to be treated that way. It can be complicated.) None of this has any legal significance whatever. If the birth certificates and legally-binding statements of Hawai'ian state officials are fake, that would be a real issue. But this wouldn't make a difference. Natural born citizen, it is totally
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Lomax claims that it matters not what allah's origins were. OK. Because it is clear from archeological evidence that allah (al-ilah) was the pagan moon god of arabs. He had 3 daughters that the koran initially said should be worshipped. Later muhammed abrogated those verses saying that he was deceived by Satan. Funny, can't allah, the supposed almighty god, protect his prophet from deception. Can't allah keep his word (koran) pure from error? The kabah was where these pagans worshipped al-ilah. The pagans walked around kabah stone just like the muslim do today. My friends, if you are reading this, please research this yourself. Don't believe me, check it out yourself. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 04:11 AM 1/2/2013, Jojo Jaro wrote: That is where you are wrong my friend. A TRUE Christian will not find a call to Idolatry beautiful. A muslim call to prayer is a call to pray to a false god (allah the moon god) in front of an idol (kabah - a meteroite stone.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman Is the call to prayer a call to idolatry? This brings up the Moon God Allah argument, recognized immediately here, over six months ago, as bigotry. The claim is that Allah is a Moon God, allegedly because it was a name for a pre-Islamic god of the moon. That is arguing that the referent of a word is controlled by its etymology. So if someone says, Hey, Dennis is a great guy! they are praising Dionysius, the Greek God. Idolatry! No, Allah, *regardless of origin* -- and we don't care about origin, we care about *present meaning* -- is God, and that's not in controversy among Christians who speak Arabic, *except for those afflicted by the present claims.* Very modern. And we do not have an idol in mind when we face Mecca, and the verse that commands this only refers to the *direction*. It does not command worship of the Ancient House. It says to face the direction of the Sacred Masjid. (Mosque is not an Arabic word, Masjid means, place of prayer. I once had a prayer carpet, given to me by a Pakistani Muslim to whom it was a beloved object, and it had a picture of the House on it. I had this carpet for years, but it always, when I used it, didn't feel right. So, years later, because I knew it was important to him, he had prayed with it all over the world, I gave it back to him. He was insulted, it was part of an unfortunate sequence of events. This was over thirty years ago, by the way. We don't worship the House, we don't even worship the direction, we merely face it, as best we know. We seek direction from God, and we respond to what God has commanded. Ka'aba does not mean a stone. It means cube, and refers to the overall shape of the whole House. There is an ancient stone set in a corner of the Ka'aba. It performs no central role in Islam. Because there is a tradition that the stone was *reset* in the corner of the Cube by action of the Prophet -- he didn't actually do it himself, rather he arbitrated a dispute on who would be allowed to do it, *before his mission* -- there are those who touch this stone, to touch a place where Muhammad may have touched. That's a traditional practice, and could be considered a kind of worship, but they would never do this as part of the prayer, it would be forbidden. We don't worship the stone. I do not recall *ever* thinking of the stone while in prayer. So, again, Jojo is just tossing mud. He's actually claiming that many of my friends, people I've known well, who are Christian and who even disagree with me on theology, greatly, are actually *not Christians,* but only because they don't agree with Jojo. That is, in fact, such an un-Christian position that I'm going to assert: Jojo is not a TRUE Christian. And that's been totally obvious for a long time. Jojo is not following Jesus, he's not imitating Jesus, he's not teaching what Jesus taught, he's not demonstrating what Jesus demonstrated, he is, by pretending to be a Christian, *defaming* the Christian religion. That he may be pretending this even to himself would only demonstrate the depth of his denial. (As certain Muslims do with Islam through their own extremities.)
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
This should have been tagged OT from the beginning. However, changing a subject header after it has started screws up threading, and the whole point of my responding at all to Jojo is to keep sane information in his threads, for future readers who find this through Google. I would never inititate this discussion here. At 05:21 PM 1/2/2013, you wrote: Lomax, please read up on the case of the Nordyke twins. They were born within a few days of Obama and they were able to obtain a long form copy of their BC. You lie once again by claiming that there is no legal way. I read all this months ago. Joho seems to not realize something. I actually research what I write, when it enters controversy. I check my facts. Quite obviously there is, cause the Nordyke twins were able to do it. Please my friend, stop the lies. Where is Obama's long form BC. Not computer generated scans which are obviously fake. Have you seen the Nordyke twin's long form BC? When was it issued? If you haven't seen it, look at: http://www.biasedmediaboycott.com/index.php?topic=80.0 Just the first I could find. The Nordyke certificate was issued in 1966, you can see the date. It's a negative copy, and I received copies like that of birth records -- my own, for example --, it's how it used to be done, the copying machines made a negative. So Ms. Nordyke requested a birth certificate copy in 1966, and that is what she got. A copy of the original, the long form. If you look carefully at the picture, you can see the lines starting to bend from where the original is bound in a volume, as you can see this same bending in the long form image that has been issued by Obama. (Looking at some of the birther pages, the arguments they come up with are a *scream!*) Referring to the Hawai'i later computerized their records, and started to issue short-form certificates, with only the legally important data. Apparently getting a long form requires special permission, and it's not clear that it's automatic that you can get one at all. And *who* can get one? Can I write to Hawai'i and get a copy of, say, that Nordyke BC? Or Obama's, and will they be treated *any differently*? (Answer: to do this I'd have to commit a crime, I'd have to impersonate them. Or be representing them, and be able to show that. However, people to obtain birth certificates under false pretenses. For a $10 fee, they obviously can't do a lot of investigation! On the other hand, if they get a letter from Barack Obama, P.O. Box blah blah, Philippines, do you think they'd fall for it? Now, what Jojo had actually demanded was to see the vault copy itself, not some copy on the internet. Well, did he see the Nordyke twins BC? Or just a copy on the internet? Now, some people may have visited Ms. Nordyke and may have seen the certified copy. And some people have seen certified copies of Obama's short form and the vault certificate, the long form. The page I pointed to made a big fuss about how different the long form was from Obama's short form. Much ado about *nothing*. They are quite distinct, obviously, but the short form includes all the legally important data, and is how Hawai'i stopped handling the vault copies. The entered the important data into a computer, and they print copies out by computer. My guess is that it's a secure computer system, not connected to a network, and that the clerk issuing a BC doesn't actually look at the vault copy. But that's a guess. It is difficult to believe that Jojo is unaware of these arguments, unless he's really new to the field and just has a habit of asserting what he *just learned* as certain fact. He *has* done that, at least once, because he acknowledged just having read it. So what is it that Jojo is demanding, he who does not even live in the U.S.? Does he want a courier to arrive with the bound volume? Does he want a copy mailed to him with the certification? He has to be eligible to recieve one, and there is a $10 fee if he's eligible. The State of Hawai'i does not issue the original to *anyone*. It's called a vault copy because that's where it's kept! And it doesn't issue certified copies except to eligible persons. Read the application information: http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/elig_vrcc.html Jojo has demanded to know who has seen the original long form. I gave him a list by position or circumstance. He demanded the names. All of this could be found in a few minutes on the internet. I gave the names of two Hawai'ian officials who had certified that they had seen the original. Jojo then simply claims I'm lying. But all this can quickly and easily be verified. I found more, since I wrote that. It appears that state Secretaries of State, having a legal need for birth information, can request it from Hawai'i. Hawai'i does not send them the certificate, it sends, instead, a letter under official seal and signed as a testimony
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
But El is not the name of the God of Israel. El is a generic word, not a proper name. The proper name of the God of Israel is Jehovah. Jojo - Original Message - From: Daniel Rocha To: John Milstone Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies The god El, has also very polytheistic origins. Not that its also related to the name Allah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity) There are plenty of bibliography in that page to corroborate with that information. 2013/1/2 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com Lomax claims that it matters not what allah's origins were. OK. Because it is clear from archeological evidence that allah (al-ilah) was the pagan moon god of arabs. He had 3 daughters that the koran initially said should be worshipped. Later muhammed abrogated those verses saying that he was deceived by Satan. Funny, can't allah, the supposed almighty god, protect his prophet from deception. Can't allah keep his word (koran) pure from error? The kabah was where these pagans worshipped al-ilah. The pagans walked around kabah stone just like the muslim do today. My friends, if you are reading this, please research this yourself. Don't believe me, check it out yourself. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 04:11 AM 1/2/2013, Jojo Jaro wrote: That is where you are wrong my friend. A TRUE Christian will not find a call to Idolatry beautiful. A muslim call to prayer is a call to pray to a false god (allah the moon god) in front of an idol (kabah - a meteroite stone.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman Is the call to prayer a call to idolatry? This brings up the Moon God Allah argument, recognized immediately here, over six months ago, as bigotry. The claim is that Allah is a Moon God, allegedly because it was a name for a pre-Islamic god of the moon. That is arguing that the referent of a word is controlled by its etymology. So if someone says, Hey, Dennis is a great guy! they are praising Dionysius, the Greek God. Idolatry! No, Allah, *regardless of origin* -- and we don't care about origin, we care about *present meaning* -- is God, and that's not in controversy among Christians who speak Arabic, *except for those afflicted by the present claims.* Very modern. And we do not have an idol in mind when we face Mecca, and the verse that commands this only refers to the *direction*. It does not command worship of the Ancient House. It says to face the direction of the Sacred Masjid. (Mosque is not an Arabic word, Masjid means, place of prayer. I once had a prayer carpet, given to me by a Pakistani Muslim to whom it was a beloved object, and it had a picture of the House on it. I had this carpet for years, but it always, when I used it, didn't feel right. So, years later, because I knew it was important to him, he had prayed with it all over the world, I gave it back to him. He was insulted, it was part of an unfortunate sequence of events. This was over thirty years ago, by the way. We don't worship the House, we don't even worship the direction, we merely face it, as best we know. We seek direction from God, and we respond to what God has commanded. Ka'aba does not mean a stone. It means cube, and refers to the overall shape of the whole House. There is an ancient stone set in a corner of the Ka'aba. It performs no central role in Islam. Because there is a tradition that the stone was *reset* in the corner of the Cube by action of the Prophet -- he didn't actually do it himself, rather he arbitrated a dispute on who would be allowed to do it, *before his mission* -- there are those who touch this stone, to touch a place where Muhammad may have touched. That's a traditional practice, and could be considered a kind of worship, but they would never do this as part of the prayer, it would be forbidden. We don't worship the stone. I do not recall *ever* thinking of the stone while in prayer. So, again, Jojo is just tossing mud. He's actually claiming that many of my friends, people I've known well, who are Christian and who even disagree with me on theology, greatly, are actually *not Christians,* but only because they don't agree with Jojo. That is, in fact, such an un-Christian position that I'm going to assert: Jojo is not a TRUE Christian. And that's been totally obvious for a long time. Jojo is not following Jesus, he's not imitating Jesus, he's not teaching what Jesus taught, he's not demonstrating what Jesus demonstrated, he is, by pretending to be a Christian, *defaming* the Christian religion. That he may be pretending this even to himself
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
OK, why can't the President of the United States make a special request to get his long form. You say there was no legal way, but in fact there is. Abercrombie has enough authority by himself as governor to do this. Obama could make a 2 minute phone call and the Bither issue would be resolved once and for all. Why not do this simple thing? Over 60% of America want it, why not do it. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies This should have been tagged OT from the beginning. However, changing a subject header after it has started screws up threading, and the whole point of my responding at all to Jojo is to keep sane information in his threads, for future readers who find this through Google. I would never inititate this discussion here. At 05:21 PM 1/2/2013, you wrote: Lomax, please read up on the case of the Nordyke twins. They were born within a few days of Obama and they were able to obtain a long form copy of their BC. You lie once again by claiming that there is no legal way. I read all this months ago. Joho seems to not realize something. I actually research what I write, when it enters controversy. I check my facts. Quite obviously there is, cause the Nordyke twins were able to do it. Please my friend, stop the lies. Where is Obama's long form BC. Not computer generated scans which are obviously fake. Have you seen the Nordyke twin's long form BC? When was it issued? If you haven't seen it, look at: http://www.biasedmediaboycott.com/index.php?topic=80.0 Just the first I could find. The Nordyke certificate was issued in 1966, you can see the date. It's a negative copy, and I received copies like that of birth records -- my own, for example --, it's how it used to be done, the copying machines made a negative. So Ms. Nordyke requested a birth certificate copy in 1966, and that is what she got. A copy of the original, the long form. If you look carefully at the picture, you can see the lines starting to bend from where the original is bound in a volume, as you can see this same bending in the long form image that has been issued by Obama. (Looking at some of the birther pages, the arguments they come up with are a *scream!*) Referring to the Hawai'i later computerized their records, and started to issue short-form certificates, with only the legally important data. Apparently getting a long form requires special permission, and it's not clear that it's automatic that you can get one at all. And *who* can get one? Can I write to Hawai'i and get a copy of, say, that Nordyke BC? Or Obama's, and will they be treated *any differently*? (Answer: to do this I'd have to commit a crime, I'd have to impersonate them. Or be representing them, and be able to show that. However, people to obtain birth certificates under false pretenses. For a $10 fee, they obviously can't do a lot of investigation! On the other hand, if they get a letter from Barack Obama, P.O. Box blah blah, Philippines, do you think they'd fall for it? Now, what Jojo had actually demanded was to see the vault copy itself, not some copy on the internet. Well, did he see the Nordyke twins BC? Or just a copy on the internet? Now, some people may have visited Ms. Nordyke and may have seen the certified copy. And some people have seen certified copies of Obama's short form and the vault certificate, the long form. The page I pointed to made a big fuss about how different the long form was from Obama's short form. Much ado about *nothing*. They are quite distinct, obviously, but the short form includes all the legally important data, and is how Hawai'i stopped handling the vault copies. The entered the important data into a computer, and they print copies out by computer. My guess is that it's a secure computer system, not connected to a network, and that the clerk issuing a BC doesn't actually look at the vault copy. But that's a guess. It is difficult to believe that Jojo is unaware of these arguments, unless he's really new to the field and just has a habit of asserting what he *just learned* as certain fact. He *has* done that, at least once, because he acknowledged just having read it. So what is it that Jojo is demanding, he who does not even live in the U.S.? Does he want a courier to arrive with the bound volume? Does he want a copy mailed to him with the certification? He has to be eligible to recieve one, and there is a $10 fee if he's eligible. The State of Hawai'i does not issue the original to *anyone*. It's called a vault copy because that's where it's kept! And it doesn't issue certified copies except to eligible persons. Read the application information: http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/elig_vrcc.html Jojo has demanded to know who has seen the original long form. I
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Jojo, you do not speak for true Christians. I know many Christians and others who find the Muslim call to prayer beautiful. On Jan 1, 2013, at 12:44 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Other than what he wrote in his autobiography, no. But his autobiography is a revealing work into his psyche. He mentioned that the muslim call to prayer was the most beautiful sound he has heard. High praise from a supposed Christian. Beautiful in that the music or melody is beautiful, but beautiful in the sense of worship it inspires. I can tell you now that a true Christian will NOT find a call to prayer to a moon god beaustiful and inspiring. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies This is incorrect, Jojo. Do you have any evidence for your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 30, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Your statements about nationality and about adoption and nationality are incorrect. What is your evidence for Obama being registered as a Muslim? On Jan 1, 2013, at 1:11 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote: While what you are saying about Indonesian schools may be true today - I am not knowledgeable about the current school system in Indonesia, so I will not debate that. While that may be true, it surely wasn't true in the 70's when Obama went there. Records show he was registered in that school as a muslim. One more thing, he was adopted by an Indonesian muslim. If he was adopted to be an Indonesian, he would have automatically lost his U.S. citizenship and gained Indonesian citizenship and automatically became a muslim. In Indonesia, you gain the religion of your adoptive father. Indonesia does not have and never had a Dual Citizenship program with the US. Which means that he would have had to reacquire his US citizenship when he reached 18. He had to do something to gain back his US citizenship. Which automatically made him a naturalized US citizen, not a Natural-Born US citizen required by our constitution. One of my cousins was in the same boat and he was born about the same time as Obama. He was born in U.S. soil (New York) but his parents brought him back to the Philippines. By US law, as a minor, he has no official citizenship status if there is a question as to his citizenship. In my cousin's case, he was born on US soil to Filipino parents. Hence, his citizenship status was in limbo, until he can make a decision when he turns 18. He can choose to be Filipino or US citizen.When my cousin turned 18, he had to go to the US Embassy to choose US citizen and get his papers (passport). He is considered a Naturalized US citizen. A person that has to take action to gain US citizenship is not a Natural Born US citizen. This is the status of Obama even if he was indeed born in Hawaii. He would still be a Naturalized US citizen and hence unqualified. So, as you can see, Obama is unqualified to be POTUS on many fronts. The argument about whether he was born in Hawaii or not is just one aspect of his qualification (non-qualification) to be POTUS. In a free society like America, such questions about his qualifications should have been vetted openly. If there was even a hint as to his qualifications, it should have been settled publicly and openly. Why don't people take this issue seriously. Even if people think that his BC was original and valid, people should still be calling for it to be settled once and for all. Open up the vault copy. No other steps or half measures will do. Great controversies require great measures to settle. Let the Birthers see it and it they are wrong, you get the chance to humiliate them to your heart's content. If I am wrong about this, I'm sure I will have great shame and tuck my tail between my legs and go away quietly. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies The earlier posting on muslim schools is confused. Some Muslim schools have a curriculum that is based solely on the Qur'an. This kind of school would only attract non-Muslim students interested in the Qur'an, or in the culture of Islam. Some Muslim schools have a standard secular curriculum, and are attended mostly by Muslims, thus confusing some into calling them Muslim schools. Some Muslim schools are merely called such because they operate in a Muslim country, like Indonesia. This is like calling US public schools Christian because they operate in a predominantly Christian country. To suggest that President Obama must be a Muslim because he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia is a statement that at best is meaningless. On Dec 31, 2012, at 4:37 AM, Nigel Dyer wrote: Indeed. There is a Catholic school in Birmingham, UK, where the majority of pupils are Muslim http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birminghams-catholic-school-where-90-of-the-pupils-231115 Nigel On 31/12/2012 04:40, Jojo Jaro wrote: Yes, Christian catholic schools are more tolerant of other faiths, but not muslims. You can not go to a muslim school like the one Obama went to unless you are a muslim. Before Lomax spins this again; may I simply ask readers to research this on their own to see which of us both is lying. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
I'm sorry to break from scientific debates on Cold Fusion, but to be honest, JoJo has dominated this mailing list for several weeks now with very little response and light response from the Vortex-L mail list. If I may, I would like to suspend the rules and use 4 letter words If that is OK with you all, good old JoJo will get an insult so low, his shins might hurt from all of the fish bites. so Jojol You know, all I can say is your beliefs are treasonous. You say Obama is unqualified to be POTUS on many fronts. President Obama is certainly qualified to be POTUS on all levels. In fact he has been one of the best POTUS's since Clinton. You might as well say, I hate the USA. You obviously a birther, since you seem to believe the notion that Obama is not a native born citizen. That is just goofy thinking. Only a dingbat righty would take that as fact. You have been attacking Lomax for his religion. Why don't you tell us right here and right now what your religion is if you have one. We can then pick on every odd thing that your religion believes. Based on everything you have said, it probably involves eating little babies (sarcasm). Bottom line Jojo, is no one on this email lists likes your posts or even reads them. You message is irrelevant and always Off Topic! Go away an hassle some body on huffington post, On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 1:11 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Obama is unqualified to be POTUS on many fronts.
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Indeed. There is a Catholic school in Birmingham, UK, where the majority of pupils are Muslim http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birminghams-catholic-school-where-90-of-the-pupils-231115 Nigel On 31/12/2012 04:40, Jojo Jaro wrote: Yes, Christian catholic schools are more tolerant of other faiths, but not muslims. You can not go to a muslim school like the one Obama went to unless you are a muslim. Before Lomax spins this again; may I simply ask readers to research this on their own to see which of us both is lying. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
my wife know that school. it is a Jakarta dowtown secular state school... the country is muslim, yet there is 6 religion allowed, yet mandatory (you have to believe in one single god, with a paradise... that is the rule... whichever it is is your choice, even if like US there are political group using religion to reach power, and some increasing discrimination against minorities, nationally or locally) until recently when liberalisation inspired by humanrightists develop, the hijab (woman head scarf, which is much more sexy in indonesia than in saudi arabia) was forbidden in state school... and whatever you can say, it is clear Obama speak more like an evangelist priest... A bit shocking for a secular French, but if american love that style, it is their own freedom... Our choices since 10 years are criticized by more than 50% of the population, so we cannot give lessons... ah ah ;-) note also that what is evident from France is that US president is very weak because of the constitution, by design ... parliament rules and is republican... It is clear that US fear their government... whether it is good or not is not to be discussed... I just remind facts. 2012/12/31 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
ah ah... good professors and very strict say my (muslim) step-child... my (muslim) wife confirm , and me too... if catholic religion disappear, we have to keep the schools... in Indonesia like in france, religious schools have to enforce mixing and non-segregation except madrassa in indonesia which are too religious to allow that... noboby's perfect... 2012/12/31 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com At 10:17 PM 12/30/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Who says that? Muslims go to Christian schools all the time.
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
This is incorrect, Jojo. Do you have any evidence for your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 30, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary. But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order that blocks public access to the vault birth certificate. That access is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records (as is true, I think, in all states). Some access to records is blocked by HIPAA, a federal law relating to the privacy of medical records, and there are other laws protecting the privacy of certain records, but no relevant Executive Order that does what Jojo claims. He lied, and he is continuing to lie. But ... his turn. THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release January 21, 2009 EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - - PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
This is incorrect, Jojo. Do you have any evidence for your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 30, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary. But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order that blocks public access to the vault birth certificate. That access is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records (as is true, I think, in all states). Some access to records is blocked by HIPAA, a federal law relating to the privacy of medical records, and there are other laws protecting the privacy of certain records, but no relevant Executive Order that does what Jojo claims. He lied, and he is continuing to lie. But ... his turn. THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release January 21, 2009 EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - - PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
The earlier posting on muslim schools is confused. Some Muslim schools have a curriculum that is based solely on the Qur'an. This kind of school would only attract non-Muslim students interested in the Qur'an, or in the culture of Islam. Some Muslim schools have a standard secular curriculum, and are attended mostly by Muslims, thus confusing some into calling them Muslim schools. Some Muslim schools are merely called such because they operate in a Muslim country, like Indonesia. This is like calling US public schools Christian because they operate in a predominantly Christian country. To suggest that President Obama must be a Muslim because he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia is a statement that at best is meaningless. On Dec 31, 2012, at 4:37 AM, Nigel Dyer wrote: Indeed. There is a Catholic school in Birmingham, UK, where the majority of pupils are Muslim http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birminghams-catholic-school-where-90-of-the-pupils-231115 Nigel On 31/12/2012 04:40, Jojo Jaro wrote: Yes, Christian catholic schools are more tolerant of other faiths, but not muslims. You can not go to a muslim school like the one Obama went to unless you are a muslim. Before Lomax spins this again; may I simply ask readers to research this on their own to see which of us both is lying. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Salut, Alain. Bonne nouvelle année. Most Americans do not fear our government. A few do, and are viewed by the rest of Americans as paranoid and living in an alternative Tea-party reality. That reality is so bizarre, and the people who advocate it as so bizarre that they do get a lot of publicity and attention. They do have a political impact, especially on the Republican party, where some republican leaders want to rid themselves of the Tea-Party members knowing that association with them will reduce the Republican party to fringe status, and other republican leaders want to embrace the Tea-Party knowing that it may be the last stronghold of the republican party. It is a fascinating trap and I am curious to see how the Republicans (who include some pretty decent and smart people) will work this out. Like people everywhere, most Americans want lower taxes and more government services. They want the government to stop telling them what to do with laws and regulations, but they at the same time want the government to stop others from doing things they disapprove of. As I said, like people everywhere. For myself, I appreciate our government greatly. By and large, it is efficient, economic, responsive, and transparent. Of course, there are many things the government does that I disagree with (especially in foreign affairs), but generally I appreciate and support our government. Generally! Laurent On Dec 31, 2012, at 10:34 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote: my wife know that school. it is a Jakarta dowtown secular state school... the country is muslim, yet there is 6 religion allowed, yet mandatory (you have to believe in one single god, with a paradise... that is the rule... whichever it is is your choice, even if like US there are political group using religion to reach power, and some increasing discrimination against minorities, nationally or locally) until recently when liberalisation inspired by humanrightists develop, the hijab (woman head scarf, which is much more sexy in indonesia than in saudi arabia) was forbidden in state school... and whatever you can say, it is clear Obama speak more like an evangelist priest... A bit shocking for a secular French, but if american love that style, it is their own freedom... Our choices since 10 years are criticized by more than 50% of the population, so we cannot give lessons... ah ah ;-) note also that what is evident from France is that US president is very weak because of the constitution, by design ... parliament rules and is republican... It is clear that US fear their government... whether it is good or not is not to be discussed... I just remind facts. 2012/12/31 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd
RE: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
The fact that many or most Americans do not fear the government is not something to celebrate. The erosion of rights under the Constitution is shocking - if most people understood or cared - and Obama has become worse than Bush. While Congress hotly debates budgets, just hours away from a fiscal cliff, they have no trouble at all passing a bill (twice) that allows for indefinite imprisonment without trial by a bipartisan majority (NDAA). Don't waste your time protesting to your elected representative, they won't bother answering ( my experience). And they easily pass a bill to search your email without a warrant - take note of the fact that no one even bats an eye that the FBI went thru tens of thousands of emails from the most prominent military leaders in the country recently. Not even their position saves them.. And most astounding of all? Take a good look at the track record of people crying for gun confiscation and note how disgusted and aggrieved they normally are in preaching that the government is corrupt and unresponsive. Like Michael Moore and his 9/11 work. The government is evil but let's give up our guns? Really? Oh, and the US now puts a higher % of its people in prison than Russia does.
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 9:10 AM, de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.comwrote: Most Americans do *not* fear our government. I think Alain has in mind the system of checks and balances in US government -- the veto of the President, the Supreme Court striking down legislation, etc. By and large, US government is quite decentralized, especially in comparison to the French government. This has the effect of raising barriers to one group's making drastic changes for which there is no consensus (see the recent constitution story in Egypt) at the cost of making it difficult to get things done when agreement can't be found. Many countries do not have governments that are as easily paralyzed as that of the US. Advocates for this kind of governmental decentralization are worried about tyranny. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Other than what he wrote in his autobiography, no. But his autobiography is a revealing work into his psyche. He mentioned that the muslim call to prayer was the most beautiful sound he has heard. High praise from a supposed Christian. Beautiful in that the music or melody is beautiful, but beautiful in the sense of worship it inspires. I can tell you now that a true Christian will NOT find a call to prayer to a moon god beaustiful and inspiring. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies This is incorrect, Jojo. Do you have any evidence for your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 30, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary. But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order that blocks public access to the vault birth certificate. That access is blocked by Hawaiian law
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
While what you are saying about Indonesian schools may be true today - I am not knowledgeable about the current school system in Indonesia, so I will not debate that. While that may be true, it surely wasn't true in the 70's when Obama went there. Records show he was registered in that school as a muslim. One more thing, he was adopted by an Indonesian muslim. If he was adopted to be an Indonesian, he would have automatically lost his U.S. citizenship and gained Indonesian citizenship and automatically became a muslim. In Indonesia, you gain the religion of your adoptive father. Indonesia does not have and never had a Dual Citizenship program with the US. Which means that he would have had to reacquire his US citizenship when he reached 18. He had to do something to gain back his US citizenship. Which automatically made him a naturalized US citizen, not a Natural-Born US citizen required by our constitution. One of my cousins was in the same boat and he was born about the same time as Obama. He was born in U.S. soil (New York) but his parents brought him back to the Philippines. By US law, as a minor, he has no official citizenship status if there is a question as to his citizenship. In my cousin's case, he was born on US soil to Filipino parents. Hence, his citizenship status was in limbo, until he can make a decision when he turns 18. He can choose to be Filipino or US citizen.When my cousin turned 18, he had to go to the US Embassy to choose US citizen and get his papers (passport). He is considered a Naturalized US citizen. A person that has to take action to gain US citizenship is not a Natural Born US citizen. This is the status of Obama even if he was indeed born in Hawaii. He would still be a Naturalized US citizen and hence unqualified. So, as you can see, Obama is unqualified to be POTUS on many fronts. The argument about whether he was born in Hawaii or not is just one aspect of his qualification (non-qualification) to be POTUS. In a free society like America, such questions about his qualifications should have been vetted openly. If there was even a hint as to his qualifications, it should have been settled publicly and openly. Why don't people take this issue seriously. Even if people think that his BC was original and valid, people should still be calling for it to be settled once and for all. Open up the vault copy. No other steps or half measures will do. Great controversies require great measures to settle. Let the Birthers see it and it they are wrong, you get the chance to humiliate them to your heart's content. If I am wrong about this, I'm sure I will have great shame and tuck my tail between my legs and go away quietly. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies The earlier posting on muslim schools is confused. Some Muslim schools have a curriculum that is based solely on the Qur'an. This kind of school would only attract non-Muslim students interested in the Qur'an, or in the culture of Islam. Some Muslim schools have a standard secular curriculum, and are attended mostly by Muslims, thus confusing some into calling them Muslim schools. Some Muslim schools are merely called such because they operate in a Muslim country, like Indonesia. This is like calling US public schools Christian because they operate in a predominantly Christian country. To suggest that President Obama must be a Muslim because he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia is a statement that at best is meaningless. On Dec 31, 2012, at 4:37 AM, Nigel Dyer wrote: Indeed. There is a Catholic school in Birmingham, UK, where the majority of pupils are Muslim http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birminghams-catholic-school-where-90-of-the-pupils-231115 Nigel On 31/12/2012 04:40, Jojo Jaro wrote: Yes, Christian catholic schools are more tolerant of other faiths, but not muslims. You can not go to a muslim school like the one Obama went to unless you are a muslim. Before Lomax spins this again; may I simply ask readers to research this on their own to see which of us both is lying. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Are you saying your wife knows the exact school Obama went to? What's the name of the schoold and its address please? Can she descirbe what it looks like? When was the last time you wife has physically seen that school? Jojo Careful now, your next answer will reveal if you are lying about this or telling the truth as an actual witness of the school. Note, this is not an insult. I am forewarning you that I am attempting to set up a bait trap for you. - Original Message - From: Alain Sepeda To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies my wife know that school. it is a Jakarta dowtown secular state school... the country is muslim, yet there is 6 religion allowed, yet mandatory (you have to believe in one single god, with a paradise... that is the rule... whichever it is is your choice, even if like US there are political group using religion to reach power, and some increasing discrimination against minorities, nationally or locally) until recently when liberalisation inspired by humanrightists develop, the hijab (woman head scarf, which is much more sexy in indonesia than in saudi arabia) was forbidden in state school... and whatever you can say, it is clear Obama speak more like an evangelist priest... A bit shocking for a secular French, but if american love that style, it is their own freedom... Our choices since 10 years are criticized by more than 50% of the population, so we cannot give lessons... ah ah ;-) note also that what is evident from France is that US president is very weak because of the constitution, by design ... parliament rules and is republican... It is clear that US fear their government... whether it is good or not is not to be discussed... I just remind facts. 2012/12/31 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary. But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order that blocks public access to the vault birth certificate. That access is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records (as is true, I think, in all states). Some access to records is blocked by HIPAA, a federal law relating to the privacy of medical records, and there are other laws protecting the privacy of certain records, but no relevant Executive Order that does what Jojo claims. He lied, and he is continuing to lie. But ... his turn. THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release January 21, 2009 EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - - PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order: (a) Archivist refers to the Archivist of the United States
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies On what evidence do you base your assertion that President Obama is a Muslim? On Dec 29, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary. But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order that blocks public access to the vault birth certificate. That access is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records (as is true, I think, in all states). Some access to records is blocked by HIPAA, a federal law relating to the privacy of medical records, and there are other laws protecting the privacy of certain records, but no relevant Executive Order that does what Jojo claims. He lied, and he is continuing to lie. But ... his turn. THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release January 21, 2009 EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - - PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
From: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:17:09 PM His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. http://www.thefogbow.com THE source for birther-watching and birther debunking. (I post there under a pseudonym)
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
At 10:17 PM 12/30/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Who says that? Muslims go to Christian schools all the time.
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Yes, Christian catholic schools are more tolerant of other faiths, but not muslims. You can not go to a muslim school like the one Obama went to unless you are a muslim. Before Lomax spins this again; may I simply ask readers to research this on their own to see which of us both is lying. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 10:17 PM 12/30/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Who says that? Muslims go to Christian schools all the time.
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
At 10:46 PM 12/30/2012, Alan Fletcher wrote: From: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:17:09 PM His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. http://www.thefogbow.com THE source for birther-watching and birther debunking. (I post there under a pseudonym) Yes, a valuable resource, very thorough. So far, what I've seen from Fogbow checks out. But this is not the place to debate this. I would personally not object at all if Jojo posted a link to an equivalent site, say as an authoritative site showing what birthers consider the strongest evidence. I thought of posting a link to Orly Taitz, but you can find a link to her site from the Wikipedia article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orly_Taitz (Jojo claims that he is only responding to propaganda. Arguing propaganda here is ultimately disruptive, but placing a link to a place where information can be found on some off-topic subject is rarely harmful. Someone else can post a link that corrects bias, etc. It's when we start calling each other liars that it becomes a problem. If there had only been a link here on Moon God or any of many other issues, I'd never have taken the time to write detailed responses.)
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
At 11:40 PM 12/30/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Yes, Christian catholic schools are more tolerant of other faiths, but not muslims. You can not go to a muslim school like the one Obama went to unless you are a muslim. Before Lomax spins this again; may I simply ask readers to research this on their own to see which of us both is lying. Jojo let me help readers out, if they care about this. I found no evidence that the school was a Muslim school, though *most of the students were Muslim,* it appears. The original story was on a now-defunct web site, the following link is dead: http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm For coverage of Insight Magazine, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insight_on_the_News Coverage by Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,245079,00.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,245582,00.html Coverage of the issue in detail: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16813267/ns/politics/t/obama-debunks-claim-about-islamic-school/#.UOEqLFK9qmw http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/ I don't see a source for the claim other than the Insight Magazine article. I found the Insight article on the wayback machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20081104013719/http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 10:17 PM 12/30/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: His own autobiography says that he went to muslim school in Indonesia. You can't go to muslim school unless you're muslim. Who says that? Muslims go to Christian schools all the time.
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary. But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order that blocks public access to the vault birth certificate. That access is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records (as is true, I think, in all states). Some access to records is blocked by HIPAA, a federal law relating to the privacy of medical records, and there are other laws protecting the privacy of certain records, but no relevant Executive Order that does what Jojo claims. He lied, and he is continuing to lie. But ... his turn. THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release January 21, 2009 EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - - PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order: (a) Archivist refers to the Archivist of the United States or his designee. (b) NARA refers to the National Archives and Records Administration. (c) Presidential Records Act refers to the Presidential Records Act, 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207. (d) NARA regulations refers to the NARA regulations implementing the Presidential Records Act, 36 C.F.R. Part 1270. (e) Presidential records refers to those documentary materials maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, including Vice Presidential records. (f) Former President refers to the former President during whose term or terms of office particular Presidential records were created. (g) A substantial question of executive privilege exists if NARA's disclosure of Presidential records might impair national security (including the conduct of foreign relations), law enforcement, or the deliberative processes of the executive branch. (h) A final court order is a court order from which no appeal may be taken. Sec. 2. Notice of Intent to Disclose Presidential Records. (a) When the Archivist provides notice to the incumbent and former Presidents of his intent to disclose Presidential records pursuant
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary. But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order that blocks public access to the vault birth certificate. That access is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records (as is true, I think, in all states). Some access to records is blocked by HIPAA, a federal law relating to the privacy of medical records, and there are other laws protecting the privacy of certain records, but no relevant Executive Order that does what Jojo claims. He lied, and he is continuing to lie. But ... his turn. THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release January 21, 2009 EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - - PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order: (a) Archivist refers to the Archivist of the United States or his designee. (b) NARA refers to the National Archives and Records Administration. (c) Presidential Records Act refers to the Presidential Records Act, 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207. (d) NARA regulations refers to the NARA
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
I recommend you this story, specially the animated version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urotsukid%C5%8Dji http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRfLQIjxvq8 BTW, this is not safe for work. It's very gruesome, although, it's just animation. 2012/12/30 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Oh, damn. This is a sequel. But the original is not hard to find. 2012/12/30 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com I recommend you this story, specially the animated version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urotsukid%C5%8Dji http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRfLQIjxvq8 BTW, this is not safe for work. It's very gruesome, although, it's just animation. 2012/12/30 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
“This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces.” This accusation is categorically true for G. W. Bush. His election was notorious for a controversy over the awarding of Florida's 25 electoral votes, and the subsequent recount process in that state, fourth election in U.S. history in which the eventual winner failed to win a plurality of the popular vote. Later studies have reached conflicting opinions on who would have won the recount if it had been allowed to proceed. On December 12, the partisan Supreme Court ruled in a 7–2 vote that the Florida Supreme Court's ruling requiring a statewide recount of ballots was unconstitutional, and in a 5–4 vote that the Florida recounts could not be completed before a December 12 safe harbor deadline, and should therefore cease and the previously certified total should hold. It is my belief that G. W. Bush was not validly elected president of the U.S. in contravention of the will of the majority. Fortunately, all such injustices are remedied by the passage of time and a beneficent providence. Cheers: axil On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary. But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order that blocks public access to the vault birth certificate. That access is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records (as is true, I think
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Yes, Axil, I am honest enough to acknowledge that I have been wrong about GW Bush. I was a strong supporter of G.W. Bush at that time but have since changed my view. His membership in the Skull and Bones secret society should have tipped me off sooner, but I was preoccupied with partisanship at that time. Though I still think that he won Florida. But how about Obama? Do you think that his Birth Certificate have been vetted properly and openly? Do you think Obama is a legitimately qualified president? Can you conclude that he is a Natural-Born U.S. Citizen based on the scanned BC he has put up of the Internet? Cause other than this scanned BC, there is no other proof he was born in Hawaii. I take that back, there could possibly be proof he was born in Hawaii that is in his vault BC. But alas, for some unknown inexplicable reason, he has blocked access to that. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies “This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces.” This accusation is categorically true for G. W. Bush. His election was notorious for a controversy over the awarding of Florida's 25 electoral votes, and the subsequent recount process in that state, fourth election in U.S. history in which the eventual winner failed to win a plurality of the popular vote. Later studies have reached conflicting opinions on who would have won the recount if it had been allowed to proceed. On December 12, the partisan Supreme Court ruled in a 7–2 vote that the Florida Supreme Court's ruling requiring a statewide recount of ballots was unconstitutional, and in a 5–4 vote that the Florida recounts could not be completed before a December 12 safe harbor deadline, and should therefore cease and the previously certified total should hold. It is my belief that G. W. Bush was not validly elected president of the U.S. in contravention of the will of the majority. Fortunately, all such injustices are remedied by the passage of time and a beneficent providence. Cheers: axil On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
“But how about Obama? Do you think that his Birth Certificate have been vetted properly and openly? Do you think Obama is a legitimately qualified president? Can you conclude that he is a Natural-Born U.S. Citizen based on the scanned BC he has put up of the Internet? Cause other than this scanned BC, there is no other proof he was born in Hawaii.” The supporters of G. W, Bush took their case to court and won. The same should be done for the supporters of the Birther theory. First find the convincing evidence, the smoking gun, that supports their case, and then take it to the courts. It is not productive to appeal to the court of public opinion to advance their case. I suspect an ulterior motive; that efforts in this regard are directed to fill talk show air time and raise revenue from higher viewer ratings. Obama was recently reelected with a majority of 53% of the vote, so it is an uphill fight to change all those minds and if accomplished…so what. Cheers: axil On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Yes, Axil, I am honest enough to acknowledge that I have been wrong about GW Bush. I was a strong supporter of G.W. Bush at that time but have since changed my view. His membership in the Skull and Bones secret society should have tipped me off sooner, but I was preoccupied with partisanship at that time. Though I still think that he won Florida. But how about Obama? Do you think that his Birth Certificate have been vetted properly and openly? Do you think Obama is a legitimately qualified president? Can you conclude that he is a Natural-Born U.S. Citizen based on the scanned BC he has put up of the Internet? Cause other than this scanned BC, there is no other proof he was born in Hawaii. I take that back, there could possibly be proof he was born in Hawaii that is in his vault BC. But alas, for some unknown inexplicable reason, he has blocked access to that. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:36 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies “This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces.” This accusation is categorically true for G. W. Bush. His election was notorious for a controversy over the awarding of Florida's 25 electoral votes, and the subsequent recount process in that state, fourth election in U.S. history in which the eventual winner failed to win a plurality of the popular vote. Later studies have reached conflicting opinions on who would have won the recount if it had been allowed to proceed. On December 12, the partisan Supreme Court ruled in a 7–2 vote that the Florida Supreme Court's ruling requiring a statewide recount of ballots was unconstitutional, and in a 5–4 vote that the Florida recounts could not be completed before a December 12 safe harbor deadline, and should therefore cease and the previously certified total should hold. It is my belief that G. W. Bush was not validly elected president of the U.S. in contravention of the will of the majority. Fortunately, all such injustices are remedied by the passage of time and a beneficent providence. Cheers: axil On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: No, I am not stating that the President is a muslim. I am stating that the Usurper is a muslim. We currently don't have a legitimate president; we have a usurper sitting on the throne. Why doesn't he just come clean? He could do this with a single 2 minute phone call to the Hawaiian authorities to open access to his vault BC. He can quickly end this controversy, establish his legitimacy, kill the Birther movement and start the healing of the nation. He can do all that in 2 minutes, yet he spends over 4 million dollars of Tax payer's money to block access to this vault BC. Why block access to such an innocuous document? WHY indeed? He won't because he can't. This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces. Jojo - Original Message - From: de Bivort Lawrence ldebiv...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies Are you stating that the President is Muslim? On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote: Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Axil, court battles have been inititated to force the revelation of Obama's vault BC, but it has always been dismissed on technicality. Supposedly, no American citizen can bring a charge against Obma because he has not been specifically aggrieved or hurt by the elevation of an unqualified POTUS. In other words, unless you can prove that you have been hurt more than the rest of the people, you have no specific standing to bring a court case. This is how Obama has been able to escape from justice. It does not hurt that the shadow government demons are also threatening all those you would try. It seems to me that if he is legit and has nothing to hide, he would simply allow the openning of his vault BC and not spend over 4 million tax payer dollars to defend it. What is the rational of defending a vault BC? Why spend all the attorney's efforts and all the money that does not even belong to him? Don't you find that unusual? I have said before. The Birther movement will die a quick death and I will apologize in shame and go away if Obama can do this. Fact is, he won't because he can't. He either does not have a vault BC or his vault BC must indicate he was not born in Hawaii. During that time, parents and grandparents can register a birth by writing to the authorities. But the BC thus created would not contain hospital or doctor's information, or midwife information. That is likely what Obama's BC is missing. But we will never find out because of the veil of corruption. Axil, I don't care if Obama was releceted with 99% of the popular vote. The Constitution ought be be stronger that mere popularity. We must be a nation of laws if we are to survive as a nation. Bullying, ingnoring the law, and/or making up the rules as we go will not cut it. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies “But how about Obama? Do you think that his Birth Certificate have been vetted properly and openly? Do you think Obama is a legitimately qualified president? Can you conclude that he is a Natural-Born U.S. Citizen based on the scanned BC he has put up of the Internet? Cause other than this scanned BC, there is no other proof he was born in Hawaii.” The supporters of G. W, Bush took their case to court and won. The same should be done for the supporters of the Birther theory. First find the convincing evidence, the smoking gun, that supports their case, and then take it to the courts. It is not productive to appeal to the court of public opinion to advance their case. I suspect an ulterior motive; that efforts in this regard are directed to fill talk show air time and raise revenue from higher viewer ratings. Obama was recently reelected with a majority of 53% of the vote, so it is an uphill fight to change all those minds and if accomplished…so what. Cheers: axil On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Yes, Axil, I am honest enough to acknowledge that I have been wrong about GW Bush. I was a strong supporter of G.W. Bush at that time but have since changed my view. His membership in the Skull and Bones secret society should have tipped me off sooner, but I was preoccupied with partisanship at that time. Though I still think that he won Florida. But how about Obama? Do you think that his Birth Certificate have been vetted properly and openly? Do you think Obama is a legitimately qualified president? Can you conclude that he is a Natural-Born U.S. Citizen based on the scanned BC he has put up of the Internet? Cause other than this scanned BC, there is no other proof he was born in Hawaii. I take that back, there could possibly be proof he was born in Hawaii that is in his vault BC. But alas, for some unknown inexplicable reason, he has blocked access to that. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies “This is the pattern of a corrupt leader proped up by a corrupt shadow government strengthened by corrupt demonic forces.” This accusation is categorically true for G. W. Bush. His election was notorious for a controversy over the awarding of Florida's 25 electoral votes, and the subsequent recount process in that state, fourth election in U.S. history in which the eventual winner failed to win a plurality of the popular vote. Later studies have reached conflicting opinions on who would have won the recount if it had been allowed to proceed. On December 12, the partisan Supreme Court ruled in a 7–2 vote that the Florida Supreme Court's ruling requiring a statewide recount of ballots was unconstitutional, and in a 5–4 vote that the Florida recounts could
[Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. I'm not surprised as the continued presidency of a muslim would serve islam and muhammed, so it is OK to lie, to deceive, by outright lying or guile. I'm not surprised. Goodness my friend, you have been exposed as a liar on 3 occasions now. (A'isha age during consumation with muhammed. The obligatory requirement of FGM in Sharia,. and now this.) Don't you have some shame? Are you going to continue your lies, because you lies would serve islam and muhammed? Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release January 21, 2009 EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - - PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order: (a) Archivist refers to the Archivist of the United States or his designee. (b) NARA refers to the National Archives and Records Administration. (c) Presidential Records Act refers to the Presidential Records Act, 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207. (d) NARA regulations refers to the NARA regulations implementing the Presidential Records Act, 36 C.F.R. Part 1270. (e) Presidential records refers to those documentary materials maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, including Vice Presidential records. (f) Former President refers to the former President during whose term or terms of office particular Presidential records were created. (g) A substantial question of executive privilege exists if NARA's disclosure of Presidential records might impair national security (including the conduct of foreign relations), law enforcement, or the deliberative processes of the executive branch. (h) A final court order is a court order from which no appeal may be taken. Sec. 2. Notice of Intent to Disclose Presidential Records. (a) When the Archivist provides notice to the incumbent and former Presidents of his intent to disclose Presidential records pursuant to section 1270.46 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist, using any guidelines provided by the incumbent and former Presidents, shall identify any specific materials, the disclosure of which he believes may raise a substantial question of executive privilege. However, nothing in this order is intended to affect the right of the incumbent or former Presidents to invoke executive privilege with respect to materials not identified by the Archivist. Copies of the notice for the incumbent President shall be delivered to the President (through the Counsel to the President) and the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel). The copy of the notice for the former President shall be delivered to the former President or his designated representative. (b) Upon the passage of 30 days after receipt by the incumbent and former Presidents of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records, the Archivist may disclose the records covered by the notice, unless during that time period the Archivist has received a claim of executive privilege by the incumbent or former President or the Archivist has been instructed by the incumbent President or his designee to extend the time period for a time certain and with reason for the extension of time provided in the notice. If a shorter period of time is required under the circumstances set forth in section 1270.44 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist shall so indicate in the notice. Sec. 3. Claim of Executive Privilege by Incumbent President. (a) Upon receipt of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records, the Attorney General (directly or through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel) and the Counsel to the President shall review as they deem appropriate the records covered by the notice and consult with each other, the Archivist, and such other executive agencies as they deem appropriate concerning whether invocation of executive privilege is justified. (b) The Attorney General and the Counsel to the President, in the exercise of their discretion and after appropriate review
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary. But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order that blocks public access to the vault birth certificate. That access is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records (as is true, I think, in all states). Some access to records is blocked by HIPAA, a federal law relating to the privacy of medical records, and there are other laws protecting the privacy of certain records, but no relevant Executive Order that does what Jojo claims. He lied, and he is continuing to lie. But ... his turn. THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release January 21, 2009 EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - - PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order: (a) Archivist refers to the Archivist of the United States or his designee. (b) NARA refers to the National Archives and Records Administration. (c) Presidential Records Act refers to the Presidential Records Act, 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207. (d) NARA regulations refers to the NARA regulations implementing the Presidential Records Act, 36 C.F.R. Part 1270. (e) Presidential records refers to those documentary materials maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, including Vice Presidential records. (f) Former President refers to the former President during whose term or terms of office particular Presidential records were created. (g) A substantial question of executive privilege exists if NARA's disclosure of Presidential records might impair national security (including the conduct of foreign relations), law enforcement, or the deliberative processes of the executive branch. (h) A final court order is a court order from which no appeal may be taken. Sec. 2. Notice of Intent to Disclose Presidential Records. (a) When the Archivist provides notice to the incumbent and former Presidents of his intent to disclose Presidential records pursuant to section 1270.46 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist, using any guidelines provided by the incumbent and former Presidents, shall identify any specific materials, the disclosure of which he believes may raise a substantial question of executive privilege. However, nothing in this order is intended to affect the right of the incumbent or former Presidents to invoke executive privilege with respect to materials not identified by the Archivist. Copies of the notice for the incumbent President shall be delivered to the President (through the Counsel to the President) and the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel). The copy of the notice for the former President shall be delivered to the former President or his designated representative. (b) Upon the passage of 30 days after receipt by the incumbent and former Presidents of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records, the Archivist may disclose the records
Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything related to previous and current presidents. Anything about this current president is covered by this order. IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential counsel; for approval. This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim president. Jojo - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote: Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically require his approval before release of any information, obstensively because of Executive Privelege. Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly. Release of any information. Sure. Any information of what type, where located, and by whom? Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly have you debunked? you blatant liar. No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically. [...] Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll come up next. You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a dramatic image. That's spin. But I'll give you a fair chance here. You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar. Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary. But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order that blocks public access to the vault birth certificate. That access is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records (as is true, I think, in all states). Some access to records is blocked by HIPAA, a federal law relating to the privacy of medical records, and there are other laws protecting the privacy of certain records, but no relevant Executive Order that does what Jojo claims. He lied, and he is continuing to lie. But ... his turn. THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release January 21, 2009 EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - - PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order: (a) Archivist refers to the Archivist of the United States or his designee. (b) NARA refers to the National Archives and Records Administration. (c) Presidential Records Act refers to the Presidential Records Act, 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207. (d) NARA regulations refers to the NARA regulations implementing the Presidential Records Act, 36 C.F.R. Part 1270. (e) Presidential records refers to those documentary materials maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, including Vice Presidential records. (f) Former President refers to the former President during whose term or terms of office particular Presidential records were created. (g) A substantial question of executive privilege exists if NARA's disclosure of Presidential records might impair national security (including the conduct of foreign relations), law enforcement, or the deliberative processes of the executive branch. (h) A final court order is a court order from which no appeal may be taken. Sec. 2. Notice of Intent to Disclose Presidential Records. (a) When the Archivist provides notice to the incumbent and former Presidents of his intent to disclose Presidential records pursuant to section 1270.46 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist, using any guidelines provided by the incumbent and former Presidents, shall identify any specific materials, the disclosure
