[Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 * Andrea Rossi January 16th, 2012 at 7:09 AM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 Dear Roger: Another “rumorist” has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 * Andrea Rossi January 16th, 2012 at 7:09 AM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 Dear Roger: Another “rumorist” has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R. Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. Given back implies that a refund will be requested. Jones implicated that there will be no such request. Rossi has admitted elsewhere that he is presently repairing the first Mega-eCat with new gaskets and controls. And it's scions should be much improved. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Isn't that 1st costomer that is helping him build the small e-cats? I remember that by the end of last december, Rossi said he had a great breakthrough due to the collaboration with the customer. 2012/1/16 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 * Andrea Rossi January 16th, 2012 at 7:09 AM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 Dear Roger: Another “rumorist” has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R. Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. Given back implies that a refund will be requested. Jones implicated that there will be no such request. Rossi has admitted elsewhere that he is presently repairing the first Mega-eCat with new gaskets and controls. And it's scions should be much improved. T -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
-Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Another rumorist has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R. Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. That is correct. Not only that, Rossi has all the characteristics of a pathological liar, and liars like to use tense to advantage. You know: the meaning of is. In this case he uses has or the past tense - when the BBB would be in transit, if the 'rumorist' is right. Technically, it has not back *yet* but that does not mean it is not on the way back Given back implies that a refund will be requested. Jones implicated that there will be no such request. Yes, but AFAIK Rossi IS contractually obligated to eliminate the quiescence problem. Can he do that now? If so, hats-off to Rossi ! But even if he can do this with better controls, and proves himself to be close to the great inventor he imagines himself to be, he is still a liar. We knew that back when Rossi invented a Board member, George Kelly, which is a complete lie, one of hundreds, even borrowing the name of a deceased faculty member at UNH. This is one of many needless fabrications, and needless is a reason why this personality defect is pathological. Side note: Edison too was both a great liar and a great inventor; and also shared Rossi's habit of borrowing ideas without attribution. He famously promised Nikola Tesla the equivalent of over a $million to significantly improve his DC generator, and when Tesla delivered, TAE reneged, saying: Tesla, you dont understand our American humor... leading Tesla to invent AC. Poetic justice. But Tesla was factually challenged himself, so this could be a common trait of many great inventors. Rossi has admitted elsewhere that he is presently repairing the first Mega-eCat with new gaskets and controls. Are you calling the first Mega-eCat the BBB? If so, you have inadvertently caught him in the lie already, no? Even if he is saying that he is repairing it on the customer's premises, the gist of the rumor, and the reason it pains Rossi so severely - is that the BBB presently has zero economic value. Not to mention that this is also the reason that he missed out on the DGT payment. Now we know there is a good reason for Rossi's ill-humor - 100,000,000 million reasons. If he is repairing BBB on the customer's premises, and it has not been returned, then yes I am guilty of spreading a partly inaccurate rumor on that detail only. But not on the main point that E-Cat does NOT work for extended periods running - and moreover, has zero economic value until it does work for more than a day or two. It never worked continuously for weeks or months to heat a factory - that is another big lie. In the end, Rossi is still no more than a pathological liar on most of his absurd claims, like the million unit factory. And if he wants to sue me for libel - then all the better. (I understand the situation - his wife is an Italian attorney). Unlike Italy, however, we have this little detail in the US court system call Discovery and the aftermath of discovery for Rossi would completely crush this man's gigantic over-inflated ego. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones Beene wrote: But even if he can do this with better controls, and proves himself to be close to the great inventor he imagines himself to be, he is still a liar. Many great inventors were accomplished liars. See Edison's quote about batteries: When a man gets on to accumulators [batteries] his inherent capacity for lying comes out. We knew that back when Rossi invented a Board member, George Kelly, which is a complete lie . . . No, it turns out that is a real person, but he spelled the name of the institution incorrectly. I don't recall the name, but anyway, Kelly is real. . . . one of hundreds, even borrowing the name of a deceased faculty member at UNH. This is one of many needless fabrications, and needless is a reason why this personality defect is pathological. Don't exaggerate. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
By the way, this quiescence problem does not exist as far as I know. Reliable people have observed Rossi's devices run continuously for days, and the one at the factory did run for months, as claimed. Rossi gives the appearance of lying more than he actually lies. He has difficulty telling the truth in a way that does not make it look like a lie. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
-Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell Rossi gives the appearance of lying more than he actually lies. LOL ! That is about the lamest defense of AR I have heard. Hilarious really, this makes my day. He has difficulty telling the truth in a way that does not make it look like a lie. Now why would that be? And, as to the factory being heated continuously, this is still only his word for it, or visitors who saw it running when they were there on occasion. It probably went into quiescence every night, and Rossi restarted it first thing in the morning. It does come back from quiescence, reportedly, but it does take knowledgeable staff to bring it back. That factor ruins its economic value. If Rossi could have gotten it to run continuously, DGT would not be the massive thorn in Rossi's foot that they are. He is hobbled by DGT, and they claim that they had the biggest part of the payment ready for Rossi, if he could pass the 48 hour test. When he could not pass that test (rumor is 12 hours only) then they were all smiles. It probably has something to do with why they chose the name Defkalion. All DGT had to do, once Rossi failed, was to sit back and wait for the egotist to publicly disavow the contract; and at that point - they could go out and hire the 40+ scientist that are now on their staff. That is where the 100 million is being spent, as we speak. Yes - you will counter that DGT is not honest either, but recent visitors have seen the staff and the facilities and are favorably impressed. Few are nearly as impressed with Rossi. Does he even have a competent staff? DGT is preparing to eat Rossi's lunch... as they say. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
I've limited my skeptical Rossi criticisms awaiting a new test or any sort of verifiable information. I commend maryyugo for pulling back (a bit) on her repeated arm waving of proof and independent testing, when no new information has been revealed. But, I agree with her that some of the fanbois need to pull back a little, too. This is one of the funniest things I've seen posted in a while: Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 11:13:54 -0500 From: jedrothw...@gmail.com Rossi gives the appearance of lying more than he actually lies. He has difficulty telling the truth in a way that does not make it look like a lie. - Jed I've seen Rossi compared to Einstein, Edison, and Tesla: he's been called a genius more times than I can believe. Actions of fraud are dismissed as mafia conspiracies, and gold smuggling and money laundering is just ignored, because they're difficult. Let me be clear: Rossi, and his crew, have made erroneous and misleading statements. They should not be dismissed or ignored, but should be rightly considered in weighing the veracity of his claims. In the absence of reliable, independent tests, we are limited as to what evidence can be weighed. Where personal details would be irrelevent in most technical discussions, reliance upon the man's word has caused the man's character to be a weighting factor. I do not want to be accused of deceased-equine battery, but his past indiscretions make any contemporary misstatements all the more relevant. If, when subjected to harsh light, there is indeed a visible pathology... such evidence should be mentioned for the benefit of those that are still waiting for the scales to balance. To make repeated, and often ridiculous, excuses for his actions is to do a great disservice to those trying to make an informed analysis of his actions.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. That is correct. Not only that, Rossi has all the characteristics of a pathological liar, and liars like to use tense to advantage. You know: the meaning of is. I have to speak up here. I have never read a Rossi lie, and I kept thinking that maybe I was just missing them, but if this is what you call a lie, then No, he is not lying. He's answering the question the way I would answer it, which is in the context of the question. If the question is Was it sent back?, then the implication is that it was returned as unusable with the sale revoked. Any other context in which it may have been returned is not relevant to the question and no other answer is correct. Craig
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Ok. Yes it is true that DGT chose their name before Rossi failed the test, as I have been reminded just now. From previous post: When Rossi could not pass that test... [DGT] were all smiles. It probably has something to do with why they chose the name Defkalion. For those who are not aware: Deucalion = Defkalion = Noah Δευκαλίων - Deucalion or Defkalion. The two English translated names: Deucalion and Defkalion are the same individual, the son of Prometheus. Defkalion/Noah survived a great deluge or flooding, which had threatened all of Civilization by virtue of what can best be described as a container or box. A deluge is common in many oral traditions. Starting to sound familiar, metaphorically ? For Noah it was a large Ark. For Defkalion it is a smaller chest. It is not clear from Ovid if Defkalion's box was colored blue or not g Defkalion's aunt, notoriously, was a woman you have all heard of before - a curious gal named Pandora... the magic box shtick kinda runs in that family, no? Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. That is correct. Not only that, Rossi has all the characteristics of a pathological liar, and liars like to use tense to advantage. You know: the meaning of is. I have to speak up here. I have never read a Rossi lie, It's not so much proven lies as it is constant inconsistencies, vagueness, tangential answers to obviously relevant and harmless questions, spouting off about snakes and clowns, and general avoidance of credible answers. In a recent post on Moletrap, Alsetalokin again raises the issues. Here are a few he mentions ( here: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2292page=32#Comment_163596) First there are gammas, then there are no gammas, then there are. First the COP is 20 or more, then it's six, then it's three or less. First there's a lot of lead, then the lead isn't necessary, then it's the main way heat is produced from the gammas. He keeps his hydrogen behind ordinary stainless steel fittings which are cycled to (claimed) high temperatures. Gahh... next we'll be told that the weird construction -- core inside, then water jacket, THEN the lead shielding -- is necessary to keep the hot lead from melting down. That is, the water cools the lead. Since the heat is produced in the lead, not the core itself wait a minute safety heater insulation... isotopes. Somebody hand me a #3 trepanning drill, quick, before my head umplodes. The more Rossi writes on his misnamed blog, the less credible he becomes.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: It's not so much proven lies as it is constant inconsistencies, vagueness, tangential answers to obviously relevant and harmless questions, spouting off about snakes and clowns, and general avoidance of credible answers. In a recent post on Moletrap, Alsetalokin again raises the issues. Here are a few he mentions ( here: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2292page=32#Comment_163596 ) First there are gammas, then there are no gammas, then there are. First the COP is 20 or more, then it's six, then it's three or less. First there's a lot of lead, then the lead isn't necessary, then it's the main way heat is produced from the gammas. He has always said that there are gamma rays. He shields them with lead. There are no gamma rays leaving the device. This is all consistent. The COP can be either 20 or 6 or whatever he chooses. This is an arbitrary number determined by his ability to keep the reaction stable. This is consistent. If he said that the lead wasn't necessary, then that may be an inconsistency, but I didn't see him write that. If you can remember where it was, please post the link -- not that this really matters. The only thing that will matter is when and if Rossi starts selling more of these devices. But the more I read Rossi, the more consistent his actions are appearing to me to that of an engineer trying to deliver a new product. If you're looking for some world-revealing epiphany, you're not going to find it from him. That is not something he will deliver. Perhaps, last year, he was pondering some sort of independent test, but I think that fell apart when his deal with Defkalion fell apart. A business strategy is always a work-in-progress. Craig
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
From: Mary Yugo It's not so much proven lies as it is constant inconsistencies, vagueness, tangential answers to obviously relevant and harmless questions, spouting off about snakes and clowns, and general avoidance of credible answers. Well, Mary - inconsistencies may be what it is about most recently, but early-on, it was about big lies. Are you saying his denial of culpability in the sordid Petrodragon affair is not a big lie? Or the money laundering - or the claim that he did not know that he had a mail order degree? Or the many lies about the TEG project? And, as for Rothwell's rationalization about George Kelly - that is one lie to cover up another one. Did he misspell Frank Smith as George Kelly? Mass production in Miami is a lie. The million unit robotic factory is a lie. The list goes on and on. I am a bit surprised that Mary has not made a more thorough listing of them by now, even if some of them are only inconsistencies, and even if JR is correct that Rossi has the unique capacity to make the truth sound like a lie. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Are you saying his denial of culpability in the sordid Petrodragon affair is not a big lie? Or the money laundering - or the claim that he did not know that he had a “mail order” degree? Or the many lies about the TEG project? And, as for Rothwell’s rationalization about George Kelly – that is one lie to cover up another one. Did he misspell Frank Smith as George Kelly? Mass production in Miami is a lie. The million unit robotic factory is a lie. The list goes on and on. We found George Kelly. Did you miss that post? How do you know that Rossi is not gearing-up for production in Florida? He may be doing that. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Good grief. What is it with the Windom-Larson crowd? I mean while I'm skeptical that anyone has the theory to explain any of this yet, I will admit that Windom-Larson may be right. But still, why the religious wars? What's wrong with these people? On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Another “rumorist” has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R. Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. That is correct. Not only that, Rossi has all the characteristics of a pathological liar, and liars like to use tense to advantage. You know: the meaning of is. In this case he uses has or the past tense - when the BBB would be in transit, if the 'rumorist' is right. Technically, it has not back *yet* but that does not mean it is not on the way back Given back implies that a refund will be requested. Jones implicated that there will be no such request. Yes, but AFAIK Rossi IS contractually obligated to eliminate the quiescence problem. Can he do that now? If so, hats-off to Rossi ! But even if he can do this with better controls, and proves himself to be close to the great inventor he imagines himself to be, he is still a liar. We knew that back when Rossi invented a Board member, George Kelly, which is a complete lie, one of hundreds, even borrowing the name of a deceased faculty member at UNH. This is one of many needless fabrications, and needless is a reason why this personality defect is pathological. Side note: Edison too was both a great liar and a great inventor; and also shared Rossi's habit of borrowing ideas without attribution. He famously promised Nikola Tesla the equivalent of over a $million to significantly improve his DC generator, and when Tesla delivered, TAE reneged, saying: “Tesla, you don’t understand our American humor”... leading Tesla to invent AC. Poetic justice. But Tesla was factually challenged himself, so this could be a common trait of many great inventors. Rossi has admitted elsewhere that he is presently repairing the first Mega-eCat with new gaskets and controls. Are you calling the first Mega-eCat the BBB? If so, you have inadvertently caught him in the lie already, no? Even if he is saying that he is repairing it on the customer's premises, the gist of the rumor, and the reason it pains Rossi so severely - is that the BBB presently has zero economic value. Not to mention that this is also the reason that he missed out on the DGT payment. Now we know there is a good reason for Rossi's ill-humor - 100,000,000 million reasons. If he is repairing BBB on the customer's premises, and it has not been returned, then yes I am guilty of spreading a partly inaccurate rumor on that detail only. But not on the main point that E-Cat does NOT work for extended periods running - and moreover, has zero economic value until it does work for more than a day or two. It never worked continuously for weeks or months to heat a factory - that is another big lie. In the end, Rossi is still no more than a pathological liar on most of his absurd claims, like the million unit factory. And if he wants to sue me for libel - then all the better. (I understand the situation - his wife is an Italian attorney). Unlike Italy, however, we have this little detail in the US court system call Discovery and the aftermath of discovery for Rossi would completely crush this man's gigantic over-inflated ego. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Having said all that - let me be clear that good evidence still indicates Rossi has invented a robust energy anomaly. That is where myself and Yugo part company. She believes that the dishonesty extends to everything, but that is wrong. At the bottom of it all, there is enough proof from other honest sources, and from 22 years of positive RD - that this energy anomaly is now ready for prime time - that we should not abandon Rossi altogether. Thank Zeus for DGT and the other unnamed Labs that are on this. In effect, this conundrum (of what is true and what is not) is precisely why Rossi's inherent dishonesty is so devastating to those of us who have followed this field for all these years. Were it not for Defkalion, society could be on the verge of losing this technology altogether. From: Mary Yugo It's not so much proven lies as it is constant inconsistencies, vagueness, tangential answers to obviously relevant and harmless questions, spouting off about snakes and clowns, and general avoidance of credible answers. Well, Mary - inconsistencies may be what it is about most recently, but early-on, it was about big lies. Are you saying his denial of culpability in the sordid Petrodragon affair is not a big lie? Or the money laundering - or the claim that he did not know that he had a mail order degree? Or the many lies about the TEG project? And, as for Rothwell's rationalization about George Kelly - that is one lie to cover up another one. Did he misspell Frank Smith as George Kelly? Mass production in Miami is a lie. The million unit robotic factory is a lie. The list goes on and on. I am a bit surprised that Mary has not made a more thorough listing of them by now, even if some of them are only inconsistencies, and even if JR is correct that Rossi has the unique capacity to make the truth sound like a lie. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: LOL ! That is about the lamest defense of AR I have heard. Hilarious really, this makes my day. I am not defending him. I am describing him. He has difficulty telling the truth in a way that does not make it look like a lie. Now why would that be? It is his personality. I have met other like that. And, as to the factory being heated continuously, this is still only his word for it, or visitors who saw it running when they were there on occasion. I have heard from reliable people who observed it operate over long periods of time. I have a photo of the machine and a description of it. It probably went into quiescence every night, and Rossi restarted it first thing in the morning. No, it did not. You should not speculate so freely. You are wrong about this, and you are making yourself look silly. Yes - you will counter that DGT is not honest either, but recent visitors have seen the staff and the facilities and are favorably impressed. I was the one who reported that! I have spoken to those visitors at length. DGT is preparing to eat Rossi's lunch... as they say. Probably they will. I think they still hope to reconcile with him, and I hope they can. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* Mary Yugo It's not so much proven lies as it is constant inconsistencies, vagueness, tangential answers to obviously relevant and harmless questions, spouting off about snakes and clowns, and general avoidance of credible answers. ** ** Well, Mary – “inconsistencies” may be what it is about most recently, but early-on, it was about big lies. Yes, you're right. I was speaking only about recently. After all, what honest person would name a silly, heavily censored blog The Journal of Nuclear Science?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: And, as to the factory being heated continuously, this is still only his word for it, or visitors who saw it running when they were there on occasion. I have heard from reliable people who observed it operate over long periods of time. I have a photo of the machine and a description of it. Even so, that does not prove it operated at all, much less continuously. As to those who observed it operate, it would be easy to bamboozle them if they did not do independent tests. Yes - you will counter that DGT is not honest either, but recent visitors have seen the staff and the facilities and are favorably impressed. I was the one who reported that! I have spoken to those visitors at length. Please tell us what independent tests they performed on Defkalion equipment. Also see my questions to Defkalion and the COMPLETELY NONRESPONSIVE EVASIVE REPLY here: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23t=865p=5389#p5389 DGT is preparing to eat Rossi's lunch... as they say. Probably they will. I think they still hope to reconcile with him, and I hope they can. I doubt very much that Defkalion is going to eat anyone's lunch. They can't even respond properly to simple direct questions of what should be entirely public information.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: But, I agree with her that some of the fanbois need to pull back a little, too. This is one of the funniest things I've seen posted in a while: Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 11:13:54 -0500 From: jedrothw...@gmail.com ** *Rossi gives the appearance of lying more than he actually lies. He has* *difficulty telling the truth in a way that does not make it look like a lie. * - Jed . . . To make repeated, and often ridiculous, excuses for his actions is to do a great disservice to those trying to make an informed analysis of his actions. What the hell is that supposed to mean?! You and Beene are both off your rockers on this. I am saying that Rossi cannot help making himself look like a liar. If that is defending what could I say that would be attack? If that is a compliment, what would an insult be? Rossi cannot bring himself to tell a simple truth in a way that is convincing. Even when he has the truth on his side, he makes it look like a lie. He also makes careless mistakes such as misidentifying where George Kelly works. He is an annoying person. However, as far as I know, he has not told many lies. I have not caught him telling any about the technical capabilities of his machines. As far as I know he has not lied, although it is obvious from the compendium of his statements that I compiled that he has contradicted himself, he is confused, and his statements do not conform to conventional theory. He has lied about various things, including me, so I am well aware that he does sometimes lie. He is too clever by half. The statements made by Beene may not be lies. He probably believes them. But some of them are completely wrong. I suppose it is pure speculation or unfounded rumors. It is irresponsible to post such things. It is tantamount to a lie, and no better than what Rossi does. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Craig - Did you catch Rossi's interview Friday? He said straight out: we are in mass production in Miami. Problem is, efforts have been ongoing for some time to locate any factory with the proper permits from OSHA or other agencies, anywhere in Florida - and there are none that come up. You cannot easily hide such a facility in the USA, especially not Miami, due to tourism. There are strict regulations on toxic metals and on welding in general. Nanometric nickel is considered toxic by OSHA. And does Rossi really think he can cover up a US factory in mass production that produces a product the emits gammas? It does NOT matter how well it is shielded. You still must go through NRC and get a permit. And I do not necessarily agree that you found George Kelly... In looking at the post, you seem to admit there is a mystery guy at DoE with that name who has no connection to UNH, but did you contact him to ask him if he knows Rossi? In effect, someone (probably Cassarino) found one of a 100,000 George Kelly's in the USA (common name) - and this one works for DoE, so magically - this solves the problem. Is there more? If this Kelly works for DoE - taxpayer funded - there is no reason he should not be interviewed. My apologies if I missed another post somewhere; but a guy at DoE named George Kelly who says that yes, I am the one Rossi's Board that is what solves the problem, not the name alone. IOW we the taxpayers, funded the TEG fiasco at UNH, and we deserve answers to where that money disappeared to, with little to show. And were the two fires investigated ??? That has the stink of Petrodragon written all over it. Moreover, there was a famous George Kelly at UNH, now deceased, whose name Rossi would have heard, when he was there. This is more probable, without asking the new GK for confirmation. Hey look, you may want Rossi the man to be real, instead of just the technology - but please do not be so gullible as to overlook a mountain of contrary evidence. These problems - if there were only one of two - are a forgivable molehill. This one seems more like a volcano ready to blow. Jones -Original Message- From: Craig Haynie On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Are you saying his denial of culpability in the sordid Petrodragon affair is not a big lie? Or the money laundering - or the claim that he did not know that he had a mail order degree? Or the many lies about the TEG project? And, as for Rothwell's rationalization about George Kelly - that is one lie to cover up another one. Did he misspell Frank Smith as George Kelly? Mass production in Miami is a lie. The million unit robotic factory is a lie. The list goes on and on. We found George Kelly. Did you miss that post? How do you know that Rossi is not gearing-up for production in Florida? He may be doing that. Craig attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Also see my questions to Defkalion and the COMPLETELY NONRESPONSIVE EVASIVE REPLY here: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23t=865p=5389#p5389 LOL. I got this response from Defkalion: You have been permanently banned from this board. Please contact the Board Administrator for more information. A ban has been issued on your IP address. How Steornish can they get? What did I do to merit this ban? I asked them pointed questions about their certification process. I told them to stop patronizing me with that stupid grasshopper thing Jed started and that's about all. I guess they got enough truth for one day. Oh yeah. I told them they're not a bit credible. And they're even less so now. Only miscreants, who are lying, ban polite critics. It's a hallmark of fraud. Keep that in mind. Bans don't work and they serve mainly to make the outfit doing the ban look bad. Seems to me, talking about excess heat, Defkalion can't take any.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
He has always said that there are gamma rays. He shields them with lead. There are no gamma rays leaving the device. This is all consistent. Actually no. It is impossible. You can't shield gamma rays completely. You could shield them enough to be so few that they would be undetectable. But if Rossi says he generates the heat by thermalizing them, then the e-cats don't have anywhere near enough mass to accomplish that. 1ev equals 1.6 × 10-19 joules. The supposedly 30 mm of lead would catch a little less than 99%. The devices generate about 10 kW. Rossi is alive. It just doesn't make any sense - unless... well... maybe thermalizing gamma is just a second job or doesn't happen at all.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Yamali is exactly right. You simply CANNOT shield this kind of gamma radiation well with lead. Some always escapes. There is essentially ZERO chance of selling this kind of reactor in the USA without NRC permit. EEC would be similar. From: Yamali Yamali He has always said that there are gamma rays. He shields them with lead. There are no gamma rays leaving the device. This is all consistent. Actually no. It is impossible. You can't shield gamma rays completely. You could shield them enough to be so few that they would be undetectable. But if Rossi says he generates the heat by thermalizing them, then the e-cats don't have anywhere near enough mass to accomplish that. 1ev equals 1.6 × 10-19 joules. The supposedly 30 mm of lead would catch a little less than 99%. The devices generate about 10 kW. Rossi is alive. It just doesn't make any sense - unless... well... maybe thermalizing gamma is just a second job or doesn't happen at all.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: You simply CANNOT shield this kind of gamma radiation well with lead. Some always escapes. That is what experts in radiation say. Actually, you could stop them with enough lead. I believe it takes ~10 cm. If you had 1 m there would be no measurable radiation on the other side. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Hey look, you may want Rossi the man to be real, instead of just the technology - but please do not be so gullible as to overlook a mountain of contrary evidence. What does this mean? How could he be fake, and yet the technology is real? Are you suggesting he stole the idea? That is the only way he could not be real as far as I can imagine. As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. Focardi and everyone else who has worked with him say he discovered it. Therefore he is real in every sense that matters. His personal habits and proclivities have nothing to do with it. Robert Stroud was a homicidal lunatic and a pathological liar, imprisoned in solitary confinement for 54 years until his death. As an individual, he was probably the most notorious and evil famous biologist in history. But his personality and criminal record have *absolutely no bearing* on his scientific claims. Those claims are real, important, and justifiably celebrated. No one disputes them. His book is still in print: http://www.amazon.com/Strouds-Digest-Diseases-Robert-Stroud/dp/0866227318/ I cannot understand why Rossi's personality, his problems, and alleged problems are an issue here in this forum. Why do you -- Jones -- have such difficulty separating the person from the claim!?? Why do you have this weird obsession with Rossi's business deals?? It makes no sense to me. It is like being obsessed with a scientist's sex life or the kind of food he eats. Rossi has been independently replicated by Defkalion. I have no doubt about that. I hope they will make public some of independent tests soon. Since Rossi has passed that test, all discussion of his personality should be off the table. This is a science forum, not the *National Enquirer*. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I cannot understand why Rossi's personality, his problems, and alleged problems are an issue here in this forum. Why do you -- Jones -- have such difficulty separating the person from the claim!?? Why do you have this weird obsession with Rossi's business deals?? It makes no sense to me. It is like being obsessed with a scientist's sex life or the kind of food he eats. So, if I understand you correctly, if a car dealership had been convicted of fraud in two major cases over the years, that would be your choice of a source for a used car?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
That depends on how many gamma rays you're dealing with. Its just stochastics. A certain fraction will allways get through. All the shielding does is to reduce the likelihood for each one. So even 1 m solid lead won't reduce radiation to unmeasurable levels if there's enough of it inside. Jed Rothwell wrote: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: You simply CANNOT shield this kind of gamma radiation well with lead. Some always escapes. That is what experts in radiation say. Actually, you could stop them with enough lead. I believe it takes ~10 cm. If you had 1 m there would be no measurable radiation on the other side.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of energy when reassociating into molecular hydrogen. This is a HUGE amount of energy. The energy released is in the form of 277 nm photons which are absorbed by almost any matter. It sure isn't cold fusion. And it might explain what goes on inside the Rossi Reactor. T
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Defective analogy. The cars for sale are real and functional, aren't they? Even if the business is dishonest. From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:09 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.commailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I cannot understand why Rossi's personality, his problems, and alleged problems are an issue here in this forum. Why do you -- Jones -- have such difficulty separating the person from the claim!?? Why do you have this weird obsession with Rossi's business deals?? It makes no sense to me. It is like being obsessed with a scientist's sex life or the kind of food he eats. So, if I understand you correctly, if a car dealership had been convicted of fraud in two major cases over the years, that would be your choice of a source for a used car?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: All the shielding does is to reduce the likelihood for each one. So even 1 m solid lead won't reduce radiation to unmeasurable levels if there's enough of it inside. I meant the most you can get with a 10 kW hot fusion reaction. A few might get through but they would be hidden in the background noise from other sources. They could not cause health problems. Obviously if the reactor is as powerful as the sun, 1 m is not enough. I visited an underground linear accelerator on the campus at Hokkaido U. They have doors of 1 m thick lead. The door is mounted on railroad tracks. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On 12-01-16 04:15 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jed Rothwelljedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of energy when reassociating into molecular hydrogen. This is a HUGE amount of energy. The energy released is in the form of 277 nm photons which are absorbed by almost any matter. It sure isn't cold fusion. And it might explain what goes on inside the Rossi Reactor. Say what? Where's all that atomic hydrogen coming from? Are we back to splitting molecules using ZPE, or is there some other energy source breaking the bond?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of . . . Okay, Rossi discovered this Langmuir Torch, or whatever the heck it is. Who cares? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote: ** Defective analogy. The cars for sale are real and functional, aren't they? Even if the business is dishonest. Sorry, I miss your point. I was noting that Jed would likely not buy from someone convicted multiple times of fraud but he's buying the claims from Rossi who has been similarly convicted and who, by Jed's own admission, lies all the time. How is that a defective analogy exactly? The cars may be real and even functional but because there are many fraudulent ways to make a car appear newer and more functional than it is, it would be unwise to trust a used car dealer who has been previously convicted of doctoring his odometers or cars or whatever. Perhaps you haven't shopped for a used car. Not to get too far off on a tangent like Jed likes to, you should try to visit a chop shop. In one not far from where I live, you can peek into cracks in the tall fence and watch sweaty grubby people who look like they live on the street, assembling vehicles from scraps and chunks of other (wrecked) vehicles. When they're done, they just shove stray and excess parts and wiring harnesses anywhere they can. Then, the misaligned and dangerous, unreliable messes that result are given Mexican upholstery and a meticulous paint job, and sold to unwary people at discounts, usually masquerading as private sales to avoid having to provide a salvage title. I realize this may not mean much to our out of country friends-- it applies to the Southwestern US mainly but I bet the principle applies widely.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: 1. Tests on his device. Despite the handwaving and nonsense published here by Yugo and others, these tests are irrefutable. There is not slightest chance of fraud. I refuse to rehash that with you. If you believe that those tests were irrefutable, no rational discussion about it is possible with you. 2. Independent tests by Ampenergo and others. Unpublished, unverified and if done, likely by friends of Rossi's. Ampenergo has no meaningful web or other presence that anyone knows about and has never shown a single product or test. What if anything they have done, other than claim publicly in NyTeknik that they gave considerable money to Rossi, is unclear. They are certainly not a reliable source of test information. Same with others. What is the value is citing anonymous others? 3. Independent replication by Defkalion. Who are most likely not telling the truth and who have shown no working product whatever. Great source they are. They recently banned me from their forum and removed both my question and their answers when I reminded them that a Greek Minister had directly contradicted them in an interview about their supposed submission of a device for testing or an application of any sort to the Greek authorities. That minister's interview, by the way, was discussed on Vortex previously here: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51035.html You can't ask for better proof. I mean that literally: there is no such thing as better proof. Only more of the same. You're really getting way way out there now!. No such thing as better proof? A test by a major university would not be better proof? A test by Oak Ridge National Lab or Sandia or CERN would not be better? Hell, even a woowoo-ite like Josephson could provide more reliable data if he tested Rossi's kludges independently. I am starting to think you've lost it when you argue that there is no better proof than the patchwork of equivocation, bad experiments, lengthy if amusing arguments, and wildly incredible Rossi evasion we have now. This is so misguided . . . Yugo has no concept of separating a person from a claim. So then, you would buy a used car from a person twice convicted of used car fraud? Great -- you must have an interesting purchase history. I am s glad I put her on my auto-delete list! I believe in your case, that is called the Ostrich Syndrome. In Defkalion's case, banning me from their forum is very very Steornish. Truth to a scammer is like sunlight to a vampire.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
The calculation in the link below appears to be in large error because the conversion from kWH to MeV is wrong by 1E19 (1 kWH = 2.25E19 MeV). What I get is that the association energy of 1g of H to 1g of H2 would be 60 wH (0.06 kWH), which would be way lower than the magnitude of energy reported by Rossi. Anyone else get a different answer? Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of . . . -- Regards, Bob Higgins
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of . . . Okay, Rossi discovered this Langmuir Torch, or whatever the heck it is. Who cares?] I'll tell you why you should care. It is a proven fact that the surface of metals cause the dissociation of H2 and D2. It has also been observed that CF reactions occur near the surface of Pd and seems to be related to defects in the crystalline structure. If such a void exists, it is conceivable that enough recombination energy is released in these voids that hot fusion of D2 could literally occur within these voids when hundreds or thousands of D atoms recombine into molecular deuterium. This idea is not unlike what happens in sonoluminescence. Look, McKubre says that he does not find the transmutations in his samples other than He and tritium. If thousands of 277 nm photons are suddenly released within a void of the crystal of Pd, you could have the creation of a little sun for a brief period with enough energy to cause fusion. This could be an extremely trivial explanation for cold fusion. T
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Even if it is assembled from stolen parts, or has excess miles or has a salvage title ( I've restored seven salvage cars to legal, functional status in NYS), or whatever, we're still dealing with a real, functional car. It exists. I think there is a remarkable real effect underlying all this Rossi stuff. From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:34 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.commailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote: Defective analogy. The cars for sale are real and functional, aren't they? Even if the business is dishonest. Sorry, I miss your point. I was noting that Jed would likely not buy from someone convicted multiple times of fraud but he's buying the claims from Rossi who has been similarly convicted and who, by Jed's own admission, lies all the time. How is that a defective analogy exactly? The cars may be real and even functional but because there are many fraudulent ways to make a car appear newer and more functional than it is, it would be unwise to trust a used car dealer who has been previously convicted of doctoring his odometers or cars or whatever. Perhaps you haven't shopped for a used car. Not to get too far off on a tangent like Jed likes to, you should try to visit a chop shop. In one not far from where I live, you can peek into cracks in the tall fence and watch sweaty grubby people who look like they live on the street, assembling vehicles from scraps and chunks of other (wrecked) vehicles. When they're done, they just shove stray and excess parts and wiring harnesses anywhere they can. Then, the misaligned and dangerous, unreliable messes that result are given Mexican upholstery and a meticulous paint job, and sold to unwary people at discounts, usually masquerading as private sales to avoid having to provide a salvage title. I realize this may not mean much to our out of country friends-- it applies to the Southwestern US mainly but I bet the principle applies widely.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: Say what? Where's all that atomic hydrogen coming from? Are we back to splitting molecules using ZPE, or is there some other energy source breaking the bond? Geeze, Stephen, don't you pay attention? Molecular hydrogen IS dissociated at the surface of metals. There's hundreds of accepted papers on this. It's how metal crystals are loaded. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: The calculation in the link below appears to be in large error because the conversion from kWH to MeV is wrong by 1E19 (1 kWH = 2.25E19 MeV). What I get is that the association energy of 1g of H to 1g of H2 would be 60 wH (0.06 kWH), which would be way lower than the magnitude of energy reported by Rossi. Anyone else get a different answer? No, thanks for checking my math. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On 12-01-16 04:55 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Stephen A. Lawrencesa...@pobox.com wrote: Say what? Where's all that atomic hydrogen coming from? Are we back to splitting molecules using ZPE, or is there some other energy source breaking the bond? Geeze, Stephen, don't you pay attention? Molecular hydrogen IS dissociated at the surface of metals. There's hundreds of accepted papers on this. It's how metal crystals are loaded. Sure, sure, but you still can't do it, *and* free the hydrogen from the metal surface again again so it can re-associate, without getting the energy to split the bond from SOMEPLACE. COE, and all that. A catalyst can reduce the *barrier* to a reaction taking place but can't change the net energy balance of (reactants-in) -- (reaction-products-out). (Or at least, the kind of catalysts they teach about in schools can't do that.)
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. Werner Von Braun was a Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball. I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their achievements. If Rashomon Rossi gets it all together, I have my Home Depot credit card ready. Then, I can stop buying 40lb bags for my pellet stove there.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote: Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. Werner Von Braun was a Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball. I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their achievements. AND you believe them, because science works. Because we separate the person from the idea. My point exactly. While we are denigrating great scientists, Galileo was a jerk and a political animal according to Arthur Koestler. And those Cardinals *did*look through the telescope, says Koestler. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones, So you are OK with DFG taking Rossi's invention and in effect stealing it from him? You do admit it worked. But not for long enough. So what? IT WORKED. What part of IT WORKED don't you understand? And now your saying DFG will eat the lunch Rossi prepared and you think they are OK in do this and you are OK to publish statements that you can't back up? Apparently both you and DFG are damaged goods that can't be trusted. Thanks for making that very clear to me. You just saved me a trip to Greece. Go Rossi GO. AG On 17/01/2012 3:03 AM, Jones Beene wrote: DGT is preparing to eat Rossi's lunch... as they say. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote: Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. Werner Von Braun was a Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball. I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their achievements. If Rashomon Rossi gets it all together, I have my Home Depot credit card ready. Then, I can stop buying 40lb bags for my pellet stove there. Misses the point. If Edison repeatedly lied about his inventions and/or was jailed because of they didn't work as he said they did, and he described a new invention, you wouldn't trust him. Or if you did, you'd be a fool. It doesn't matter that he might be vindicated about the issue later. You'd get proper independent testing and replication which is exactly what has been asked again and again for more than a year of Rossi and Defkalion. There is no cost or risk involved any more and neither will do it. Their pretexts are flimsy and defy credibility. That's the problem.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On 12-01-16 05:11 PM, Zell, Chris wrote: Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. I've read Poincare's papers Einstein supposedly plagiarized. In a word ... he didn't. Poincare had a lot of the pieces but it was Einstein who put them together. (And if that's plagiarism, then every mathematician who ever wrote a paper is guilty of it, with the possible exception of some Greek whose name we've all forgotten.) Can't comment on the rest of these, save to note that there are an awful lot of little men who want to tear down big men running around writing stuff. You can't always believe what you read when someone claims so-and-so really wasn't so great after all. Werner Von Braun was a Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball. I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their achievements. If Rashomon Rossi gets it all together, I have my Home Depot credit card ready. Then, I can stop buying 40lb bags for my pellet stove there.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: Jones, So you are OK with DFG taking Rossi's invention and in effect stealing it from him? You do admit it worked. How can we possibly know that anything from Defkalion ever worked? They've never shown any testing in public, they have not allowed private results to come out (not that they would be trustworthy anyway) and they have never allowed independent tests. All we have is their claims. It defies my imagination that people believe them after so much time has passed and they have missed so many obvious and easy opportunities to prove their claims.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
His name was Thales of Miletus. g Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:25:53 -0500 From: sa...@pobox.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement On 12-01-16 05:11 PM, Zell, Chris wrote: Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. I've read Poincare's papers Einstein supposedly plagiarized. In a word ... he didn't. Poincare had a lot of the pieces but it was Einstein who put them together. (And if that's plagiarism, then every mathematician who ever wrote a paper is guilty of it, with the possible exception of some Greek whose name we've all forgotten.) Can't comment on the rest of these, save to note that there are an awful lot of little men who want to tear down big men running around writing stuff. You can't always believe what you read when someone claims so-and-so really wasn't so great after all. Werner Von Braun was a Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball. I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their achievements. If Rashomon Rossi gets it all together, I have my Home Depot credit card ready. Then, I can stop buying 40lb bags for my pellet stove there.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Mary, My statement was directed to Beene and not you. It was based on that of Beene, who claimed Rossi's reactor WORKED during the DFG tests but not for the required 48 hours. My statement to you is: So was Beene lying about the IT WORKED statement? If so then he may also be lying about the IT WAS RETURNED statement? As Jed has, as I have, as others here have, information that I/we trust that the E-Cat does work as claimed. As you know I have disclosed a commercial interest in bringing FPE devices to market, so please don't expect me to disclose confidential information on this forum. Mary, who ever you really are, you are wrong about Rossi and his E-Cat. Soon you and all the other deniers will know you are wrong. AG On 17/01/2012 8:56 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Jones, So you are OK with DFG taking Rossi's invention and in effect stealing it from him? You do admit it worked. How can we possibly know that anything from Defkalion ever worked? They've never shown any testing in public, they have not allowed private results to come out (not that they would be trustworthy anyway) and they have never allowed independent tests. All we have is their claims. It defies my imagination that people believe them after so much time has passed and they have missed so many obvious and easy opportunities to prove their claims.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Edison cheated Tesla on a flimsy pretext ('just joking') and 'repeatedly lied'
about DC vs AC. Tesla was vindicated, not Edison. Edison didn't even invent
the electric lightbulb ( OK, he made it last longer).
Testing without cost or risk? Not in any way that I would risk, if I was him.
What defies credibility to me are academics who believe corporations and
governments won't neutralize people who get in the way. The sign guarding Area
51 says, 'use of deadly force authorized'. President Obama orders the killing
of US citizens without trial.
As with an iceberg, if this is what you can see openly, how much is below the
surface that is hidden from your sight? Did Karen Silkwood just have an
'unfortunate accident'? Did JFK ride thru Dallas in an open vehicle after the
Secret Service knew about multiple plots on his life? How about the silver
trade whistleblower who was rammed by a car, not so long ago? How many
Americans know about a plot to overthrow FDR in the '30's and replace him with
a military junta - that Congress took seriously? Can major politicians be
bought off - to help corporations - by faking commodity transactions? (Hilliary)
Maybe Rossi goes nowhere. but don't be naive about risk
From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:24 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Zell, Chris
chrisz...@wetmtv.commailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:
Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a
bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. Werner Von Braun was a
Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball.
I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their
achievements.
If Rashomon Rossi gets it all together, I have my Home Depot credit card
ready. Then, I can stop buying 40lb bags for my pellet stove there.
Misses the point. If Edison repeatedly lied about his inventions and/or was
jailed because of they didn't work as he said they did, and he described a new
invention, you wouldn't trust him. Or if you did, you'd be a fool. It doesn't
matter that he might be vindicated about the issue later.
You'd get proper independent testing and replication which is exactly what has
been asked again and again for more than a year of Rossi and Defkalion. There
is no cost or risk involved any more and neither will do it. Their pretexts
are flimsy and defy credibility. That's the problem.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote: ** Testing without cost or risk? Not in any way that I would risk, if I was him. What is the risk beyond any risk Rossi already assumed when he did some 8 or 10 public demonstrations already? And he still gives regular interviews and meets with lawmakers and scientists, most recently in Massachusetts. What defies credibility to me are academics who believe corporations and governments won't neutralize people who get in the way. The sign guarding Area 51 says, 'use of deadly force authorized'. Area 51 is where secret and stealth weapon systems are developed for the Armed Forces. They don't make house heating units there. Where they do, they rarely use deadly force if you sneak into the factory! President Obama orders the killing of US citizens without trial. Perhaps but irrelevant even if true. As with an iceberg, *if this is what you can see openly, how much is below the surface that is hidden from your sight? *Did Karen Silkwood just have an 'unfortunate accident'? Did JFK ride thru Dallas in an open vehicle after the Secret Service knew about multiple plots on his life? How about the silver trade whistleblower who was rammed by a car, not so long ago? How many Americans know about a plot to overthrow FDR in the '30's and replace him with a military junta - that Congress took seriously? Can major politicians be bought off - to help corporations - by faking commodity transactions? (Hilliary) I don't know the answer to any of those conspiracies but they have nothing to do with Rossi. If every inventor who had a radical new technology that would upset someone's apple cart were to be assassinated, the grave yards would overflow with them and we'd have no Salk Institutes, Microsofts, IBM's, Oracles, Googles, Groupons, Facebooks, solar and windmill power, new medical discoveries and so on. Rossi is running no unusual risk by allowing his invention to be properly tested. In any case, he has said clearly on his blog that the invention is protected by his giving many anonymous friends secret access to the formula should anything happen to him. There is no valid reason to give equivocal and badly designed demonstrations instead of proper tests. It's been argued that this was to mislead. I find that proposal absurd because if Rossi didn't want people to believe him, he would not have given public demos at all.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Yes AG I am completely OK with DGT's strategy because essentially Thermacore invented the device, Mills explained some of it, Rossi improved it but failed to get a usable patent for what he added. Rossi wrote the contract and could have claimed the benefits but only if he could deliver what the contract specified - but he could not. Why should anyone feel sorry for him? He failed to deliver on a contract he wrote. DGT is completely within their rights to pursue this independently. -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat Mary, My statement was directed to Beene and not you. It was based on that of Beene, who claimed Rossi's reactor WORKED during the DFG tests but not for the required 48 hours. My statement to you is: So was Beene lying about the IT WORKED statement? If so then he may also be lying about the IT WAS RETURNED statement? As Jed has, as I have, as others here have, information that I/we trust that the E-Cat does work as claimed. As you know I have disclosed a commercial interest in bringing FPE devices to market, so please don't expect me to disclose confidential information on this forum. Mary, who ever you really are, you are wrong about Rossi and his E-Cat. Soon you and all the other deniers will know you are wrong. AG On 17/01/2012 8:56 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Jones, So you are OK with DFG taking Rossi's invention and in effect stealing it from him? You do admit it worked. How can we possibly know that anything from Defkalion ever worked? They've never shown any testing in public, they have not allowed private results to come out (not that they would be trustworthy anyway) and they have never allowed independent tests. All we have is their claims. It defies my imagination that people believe them after so much time has passed and they have missed so many obvious and easy opportunities to prove their claims.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Craig - Did you catch Rossi's interview Friday? He said straight out: we are in mass production in Miami. I thought he said 'Florida', but it doesn't matter. When I heard this, my initial thought was that he is planning mass production for this year, not that he is already producing. I frequently come across people who do not speak native English, who use the current tense instead of a future tense. I think you are holding Rossi to a higher standard in language than you would hold the average person. Craig
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Bob, An error you seem to be making, leading to your conclusion of way lower than the magnitude of energy reported by Rossi is an underlying assumption. You assume a symmetrical, chemical, or one-way reaction. What is not being factored into the equation, nor do we know, is the most important detail in any hypothesis involving suprachemical protons - which can been called for lack of a better term - the transaction rate for the asymmetry. If reaction is not a chemical reaction of valence electrons, but is a see-saw reaction where proton mass is converted into energy, repeatable in a short time frame and asymmetric, then the kind of energy reported by Rossi is easily possible with any recombination hypothesis. The ultimate energy source is like nuclear but not really to be a known nuclear reaction, and the reaction must happen sequentially - over and over many times per second. There is lots of excess mass in a proton, since the quarks are the only quantized mass. It might well happen that protons can donate surplus mass at a rate which is a function of surface interaction of phonons with protons, which can be at a very high rate - many THz and higher. Obviously, this rationale is not possible with chemical reactions which are largely symmetric - Lamb shift not included. If you want to plug in the numbers of having one gram of hydrogen in a reactor and providing 6 kWhr, you need only find a transaction rate (for the high gain regime) of 1000/sec. but even if the Lamb shift is the only asymmetry, a very low gain per iteration - you can still get there. That is essentially the teaching of the Moddel patent (it is a hypothesis on paper and not demonstrated, unless Rossi is the demonstration.) In short - with phonons moving in the terahertz range of blackbody radiation - then it is quite easy to imagine this as pumping some kind of sequential asymmetry. The problem as always is defining the ultimate energy source of the asymmetry. I think it is the strong force, not the weak force. A large transaction rate may itself be dependent on the extraordinary surface area of nanopowder. From: Bob Higgins The calculation in the link below appears to be in large error because the conversion from kWhr to MeV is wrong by 1E19 (1 kWH = 2.25E19 MeV). What I get is that the association energy of 1g of H to 1g of H2 would be 60 wH (0.06 kWhr), which would be way lower than the magnitude of energy reported by Rossi. Anyone else get a different answer? Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of . . . -- Regards, Bob Higgins
