Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Has energetics technology ever achieved any success? No, unless your criteria for success includes 'raising money from Sidney Kimmel' and publishing papers. The lab they opened at the University of Missouri in 2009 has closed, according to the UM website at http://muincubator.com/clients.html. Their Internet domains are defunct (http://www.energeticstechnologies.com and http://superwavefusion.com). As far as I can see, several of the co-authors on the paper that Jed quoted have moved on or are unemployed according to LinkedIn (e.g. B Khachaturov,V Krakov, T Zilov). Arik El-Boher, the lead author of that paper after Dardik himself is now at SKINR at UM, again funded by Kimmel. As far as I can tell, Dardik's company has gone. Anyone have info to the contrary? Is there any recent activity by Dardik on his 'superwave' theory at all? AF
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Many of us are saying that. I think it's the primary criticism. - Original Message - From: Robert Lynn To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 1:00 AM Subject: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? This has only just occurred to me, but in my mind is a bit of a red flag: The reactor vessel is a sealed metal container, no electrical or magnetic signal of any frequency will penetrate it (It is a faraday cage). And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. All of these configurational details were revealed to the testers by Rossi. So why did Rossi feel the need to prevent detailed analysis of the input power to these resistors that are no more than resistive heaters? We know he ran it in at least a partially pulsed 35% on 65% off mode with period of about 6 minutes from the thermography. So what possible harm could have come from allowing continuous measurement of voltage drop and current flow through the resistors? As such preventing that measurement serves no sensible purpose that I, or any other engineer/scientist could see, it is a pointless obfuscation. All it achieves is raising suspicion about just what electrical power is really flowing through those resistors.
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. All of these configurational details were revealed to the testers by Rossi. My guess is that it is some sort of pulsation, perhaps similar to the Energetics Technology superwaves. On the other hand, that might be detected by monitoring power between the wall socket and the power supply. I think there can be secrets even with this configuration. Not everything that Rossi does makes sense. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Has energetics technology ever achieved any success? 2013/5/24 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. All of these configurational details were revealed to the testers by Rossi. My guess is that it is some sort of pulsation, perhaps similar to the Energetics Technology superwaves. On the other hand, that might be detected by monitoring power between the wall socket and the power supply. I think there can be secrets even with this configuration. Not everything that Rossi does makes sense. - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Has energetics technology ever achieved any success? Yes, they have many positive experiments, confirmed by Duncan and others. See, for example: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DardikIultrasonic.pdf - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Yes, pulsing the current across a loaded sample is often useful. I find that pulses in the 0.1 to 400 Hz region with a fast rise time often stimulates excess. But then I am using metal in carbon materials and don't have anything like the power densities that Rossi has. (pure metal powders quickly sintered on me once above 350 C), I think that Defkalion uses spark like systems onto surfaces where I use current through the material). Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:13:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? From: jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. All of these configurational details were revealed to the testers by Rossi. My guess is that it is some sort of pulsation, perhaps similar to the Energetics Technology superwaves. On the other hand, that might be detected by monitoring power between the wall socket and the power supply. I think there can be secrets even with this configuration. Not everything that Rossi does makes sense. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Robert Lynn wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. There is still confusion on that point. From Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing -of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/ They described the E-Cat HT as a cylinder having a silicon nitride ceramic outer shell, 33 cm in length, and 10 cm in diameter. A second cylinder made of a different ceramic material (corundum) was located within the shell... It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Because when he DOES finally allow it, and its fine, people will look stupid. Its never what the magician tells you NOT to look at thats important, its what he tells you to look at. On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 1:00 AM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: This has only just occurred to me, but in my mind is a bit of a red flag: The reactor vessel is a sealed metal container, no electrical or magnetic signal of any frequency will penetrate it (It is a faraday cage). And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. All of these configurational details were revealed to the testers by Rossi. So why did Rossi feel the need to prevent detailed analysis of the input power to these resistors that are no more than resistive heaters? We know he ran it in at least a partially pulsed 35% on 65% off mode with period of about 6 minutes from the thermography. So what possible harm could have come from allowing continuous measurement of voltage drop and current flow through the resistors? As such preventing that measurement serves no sensible purpose that I, or any other engineer/scientist could see, it is a pointless obfuscation. All it achieves is raising suspicion about just what electrical power is really flowing through those resistors.
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
It is more than remotely possible - that if the HotCat reactor is ceramic and not steel, that at least the inner capsule could be influenced by a special waveform - and that explains why Rossi does not want it to be known. not so much that it is HIS trade secret, but that he borrowed the idea from Energetics. Good point - Daniel. After all, the Superwave concept does have merit on its own. Dardik's book is highly recommended (on Amazon) Dardik is another one of those characters with a checkered past, but who is a great inventor, nevertheless. Jones From: Jed Rothwell Daniel Rocha wrote: Has energetics technology ever achieved any success? Yes, they have many positive experiments, confirmed by Duncan and others. See, for example: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DardikIultrasonic.pdf - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no? Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel. End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310:15.5x10-6 316:16.5x10-6 For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both a faraday cage to shield outside EM, and to complete a magnetic flux circuit which channels the flux from internal permanent mags. Since stainless is only about 50% Fe, a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not. In that case, is he using magnetic properties to help control the reaction? Is it causing alignment of grains, or forcing dipole oscillations to be aligned? -Mark From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 7:31 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Robert Lynn wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. There is still confusion on that point. From Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing -of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/ They described the E-Cat HT as a cylinder having a silicon nitride ceramic outer shell, 33 cm in length, and 10 cm in diameter. A second cylinder made of a different ceramic material (corundum) was located within the shell... It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Mark, In the end - it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a trade secret per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S- 314.pdf From: MarkI-ZeroPoint It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no? Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel. End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310:15.5x10-6 316:16.5x10-6 For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both a faraday cage to shield outside EM, and to complete a magnetic flux circuit which channels the flux from internal permanent mags. Since stainless is only about 50% Fe, a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not. In that case, is he using magnetic properties to help control the reaction? Is it causing alignment of grains, or forcing dipole oscillations to be aligned? -Mark From: Jones Beene Robert Lynn wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. There is still confusion on that point. From Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing -of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/ They described the E-Cat HT as a cylinder having a silicon nitride ceramic outer shell, 33 cm in length, and 10 cm in diameter. A second cylinder made of a different ceramic material (corundum) was located within the shell... It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Looks like Dardik's superwave tech is an application - not a granted patent http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardik http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardikei=LJufUbH wM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en ei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en Mark, In the end - it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a trade secret per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S- 314.pdf From: MarkI-ZeroPoint It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no? Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel. End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310:15.5x10-6 316:16.5x10-6 For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both a faraday cage to shield outside EM, and to complete a magnetic flux circuit which channels the flux from internal permanent mags. Since stainless is only about 50% Fe, a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not. In that case, is he using magnetic properties to help control the reaction? Is it causing alignment of grains, or forcing dipole oscillations to be aligned? -Mark From: Jones Beene Robert Lynn wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. There is still confusion on that point. From Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing -of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/ They described the E-Cat HT as a cylinder having a silicon nitride ceramic outer shell, 33 cm in length, and 10 cm in diameter. A second cylinder made of a different ceramic material (corundum) was located within the shell... It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Well, it certainly has many properties that make it a good candidate to house the core, so is it just a coincidence that it also happens to be non-magnetic, and what’s inside is ferromagnetic… You know what they say about coincidences! ;-) The electrical resistivity units I do not recognize; it’s usually reported in Ω⋅m (Ohm*m)… Still intrigued by your revelations about ~300eV… you put some puzzle pieces together and there seems to be a picture developing. Hope you continue to travel down that path, Sherlock! -Mark Iverson From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 9:35 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Mark, In the end – it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a “trade secret” per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S-314.pdf From: MarkI-ZeroPoint “It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?” Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: “The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel.” End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310:15.5x10-6 316:16.5x10-6 For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both a faraday cage to shield outside EM, and to complete a magnetic flux circuit which channels the flux from internal permanent mags. Since stainless is only about 50% Fe, a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not. In that case, is he using magnetic properties to help control the reaction? Is it causing alignment of grains, or forcing dipole oscillations to be aligned? -Mark From: Jones Beene Robert Lynn wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. There is still confusion on that point. From Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing-of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/ They described the E-Cat HT as a cylinder having a silicon nitride ceramic outer shell, 33 cm in length, and 10 cm in diameter. A second cylinder made of a different ceramic material (corundum) was located within the shell... It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no? image001.png
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves are very weak anyway. (not that many turns). If he wanted or needed magnetic fields to penetrate the reactor then he would not be using spiral wound resistors arrayed around the reactor vessel, he would have a coil wound around the reactor vessel. As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. On 24 May 2013 17:56, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Looks like Dardik’s superwave tech is an application – not a granted patent ** ** http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardikei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en ** ** ** ** Mark, ** ** In the end – it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a “trade secret” per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. ** ** ** ** Would you agree? ** ** SS spec sheet: ** ** http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S-314.pdf ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* MarkI-ZeroPoint ** ** “It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?” Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. ** ** An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: ** ** “The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel.” ** ** End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310:15.5x10-6 316:16.5x10-6 ** ** For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both a faraday cage to shield outside EM, and to complete a magnetic flux circuit which channels the flux from internal permanent mags. ** ** Since stainless is only about 50% Fe, a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not. In that case, is he using magnetic properties to help control the reaction? Is it causing alignment of grains, or forcing dipole oscillations to be aligned? ** ** -Mark ** ** ** ** *From:* Jones Beene ** ** Robert Lynn wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. ** ** ** ** There is still confusion on that point. From Forbes article: ** ** http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing-of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/ ** ** They described the E-Cat HT as a cylinder having a silicon nitride ceramic outer shell, 33 cm in length, and 10 cm in diameter. A second cylinder made of a different ceramic material (corundum) was located within the shell... ** ** It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Well, Mark - there is one more detail about the 300 eV value which could also be coincidental … or not. Less than a month ago we talked about serendipity and hexavalency. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg78698.html … and now it turns out that the release of 6 electrons from Nickel will provide the 300 eV Millsean energy “hole” which is necessary to force hydrogen into deep redundancy. It may be “all Greek” to some vorticians but “hexa” does imply the magic number here since that is where the Rydberg value lines up almost exactly.. Nickel has 10 valence electrons and taking 6 of them all at once seems unlikely – but what about the situation where there is a chemical see-saw in which 6 electrons move back-and-forth at a rapid resonant rate and the on occasion, this allows hydrogen to be forced into this kind of redundancy. From: MarkI-ZeroPoint Well, it certainly has many properties that make it a good candidate to house the core, so is it just a coincidence that it also happens to be non-magnetic, and what’s inside is ferromagnetic… You know what they say about coincidences! ;-) The electrical resistivity units I do not recognize; it’s usually reported in Ω⋅m (Ohm*m)… Still intrigued by your revelations about ~300eV… you put some puzzle pieces together and there seems to be a picture developing. Hope you continue to travel down that path, Sherlock! -Mark Iverson From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 9:35 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Mark, In the end – it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a “trade secret” per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S-314.pdf From: MarkI-ZeroPoint “It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?” Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: “The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel.” End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310:15.5x10-6 316:16.5x10-6 For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both a faraday cage to shield outside EM, and to complete a magnetic flux circuit which channels the flux from internal permanent mags. Since stainless is only about 50% Fe, a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not. In that case, is he using magnetic properties to help control the reaction? Is it causing alignment of grains, or forcing dipole oscillations to be aligned? -Mark From: Jones Beene Robert Lynn wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. There is still confusion on that point. From Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing-of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/ They described the E-Cat HT as a cylinder having a silicon nitride ceramic outer shell, 33 cm in length, and 10 cm in diameter. A second cylinder made of a different ceramic material (corundum) was located within the shell... It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no? image001.png
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Robert, I agree to the extent that the emphasis should be on what is significant. Yes natural gas has been used according to AR - so only the heat is absolutely necessary -- but an additional EM resonance, even if it is from eddy currents, could be helpful to maintain control. It is not either/or. Here is kind of the reverse situation where eddy currents are actually used in leak detection of SS. http://www.olympus-ims.com/en/ms-5800-tube-inspection/ . And also - in the images I saw - the resistor wires are spiral wound around each other so there could be more magnetic field than expected. Maybe Dave will run a sim on this in spice. Jones From: Robert Lynn To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves are very weak anyway. (not that many turns). If he wanted or needed magnetic fields to penetrate the reactor then he would not be using spiral wound resistors arrayed around the reactor vessel, he would have a coil wound around the reactor vessel. As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. On 24 May 2013 17:56, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Looks like Dardik's superwave tech is an application - not a granted patent http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardik http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardikei=LJufUbH wM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en ei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en Mark, In the end - it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a trade secret per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S- 314.pdf From: MarkI-ZeroPoint It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no? Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel. End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310:15.5x10-6 316:16.5x10-6 For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both a faraday cage to shield outside EM, and to complete a magnetic flux circuit which channels the flux from internal permanent mags. Since stainless is only about 50% Fe, a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not. In that case, is he using magnetic properties to help control the reaction? Is it causing alignment of grains, or forcing dipole oscillations to be aligned? -Mark From: Jones Beene Robert Lynn wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. There is still confusion on that point. From Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing -of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/ They described the E-Cat HT as a cylinder having a silicon nitride ceramic outer shell, 33 cm in length, and 10 cm in diameter. A second cylinder made of a different ceramic material (corundum) was located within the shell... It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. . . . As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. And let me repeat myself. It is possible that the pattern of heating and cooling somehow triggers the reaction and this pattern is what Rossi is trying to hide. This pattern may not be complicated. Suppose it is simple. Suppose you heat the sample sharply at first, and then back off the input power. That is how Fleischmann and Pons triggered their boil off events. Even if it is simple, it is still worth a great deal of money if he can file a patent on it before the secret gets out. Fleischmann and Pons did not use RF at all. It was purely thermal stimulation. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
From: Jed . It is possible that the pattern of heating and cooling somehow triggers the reaction and this pattern is what Rossi is trying to hide. That kind of thermal pulsation could also be accomplished with natural gas as the heat source. Many experimenters have notice a ratcheting effect in Ni-H, where there is gradual gain in increasing steps - which exceeds constant heat input. The steps can be fractional hertz (several seconds long). Jones
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
The conductivity of stainless steel is about the same as Nichrome.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity This means that the RF that Rossi is feeding into the reactor through the heating elements will get into the reaction chamber. He uses this RF to stimulate the production of nano-particles in the form of Rydberg matter. What is the purpose of the preparatory high frequencies pumped into the Rossi reaction chamber over the power lines? Explanation follows: http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During_Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/transcription.htm Transcription of the Anniversary E-Cat Interview Regarding the Radio frequency generator. S. Also, while we are talking about the function of the technology, there is also been talk both from you and others about some kind of a frequency that is used to impose on the system, some kind of electromagnetic radio... some kind of vibrational frequency. Could you talk about that for a minute? A. I am very sorry. I am very sorry, but this is a confidential issue. Yes, we use... I can say you this... That we use a system that is similar to what happens in the martial arts, oriental martial arts. Sorry, my pronunciation is a bit shaky. The effect is based on the fact the forces that theoretically should fight against us, and I mean the Coulomb forces, are used to help us. This is the principle. And this is the issue. This effect is an effect where we have turned to our advantage what theoretically has to be to our disadvantage. That is all I can tell you my friend. The enticing clue for the disbelieving set is the proprietary radio frequency generator that has emissions to interact with the reactions inside of the core. Along with the catalysts this is information that will stay secret as long as possible. What did slip is Mr. Rossi compared the use of the radio frequencies to martial arts. Rossi explained that the radio frequency generator allows the forces that would normally prevent the fusion process from taking place (Coulomb forces) to work for you, and not against you. Rossi offers that the full theory of how the system works will be revealed, as he put it, “soon.” Reference: http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0607/0607193.pdf Precision bond lengths for Rydberg Matter clusters KN (N = 19, 37, 61 and 91) in excitation levels n = 4 - 8 from rotational radiofrequency emission spectra Clusters of the electronically excited condensed matter Rydberg Matter (RM) are planar and six-fold symmetric with magic numbers N = 7, 19, 37, 61 and 91. The bond distances in the clusters are known with a precision of ± 5% both from theory and Coulomb explosion experiments. Long series of up to 40 consecutive lines from rotational transitions in such clusters are now observed in emission in the radio-frequency range 7-90 MHz. The clusters are produced in five different vacuum chambers equipped with RM emitters. The RF is forming potassium clusters in the reaction chamber.. On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. . . . As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. And let me repeat myself. It is possible that the pattern of heating and cooling somehow triggers the reaction and this pattern is what Rossi is trying to hide. This pattern may not be complicated. Suppose it is simple. Suppose you heat the sample sharply at first, and then back off the input power. That is how Fleischmann and Pons triggered their boil off events. Even if it is simple, it is still worth a great deal of money if he can file a patent on it before the secret gets out. Fleischmann and Pons did not use RF at all. It was purely thermal stimulation. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Mr. Lynn, You're a bit too quick on the trigger. Let me repeat myself, a *magnetic* field WILL penetrate most austenitic stainless steels. However, I know that a static mag-field is not the same as the magnetic component of an oscillating EM field, so I called a colleague who worked for Varian for 40 years, and who has a lot of magnetics expertise. He said that static, and possibly VLF, magnetic fields will penetrate nonmagnetic stainless steels, but that the magnetic component of EM waves of any significant frequency will probably not. Another consideration, and I think this was mentioned in the Collective two (or was it three) years ago right after Rossi's first January demonstration, is that when the electrical resistance heaters are energized (with DC), they will generate a mag-fld around them. This can probably be considered a static mag-field, and will likely penetrate the non-magnetic 310 stainless cylinder, so the internal core of the reactor may very well feel this PWM-modulated field. -Mark Iverson From: Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:57 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves are very weak anyway. (not that many turns). If he wanted or needed magnetic fields to penetrate the reactor then he would not be using spiral wound resistors arrayed around the reactor vessel, he would have a coil wound around the reactor vessel. As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. On 24 May 2013 17:56, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Looks like Dardik's superwave tech is an application - not a granted patent http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardik http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardikei=LJufUbH wM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en ei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en Mark, In the end - it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a trade secret per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S- 314.pdf From: MarkI-ZeroPoint It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no? Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel. End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310:15.5x10-6 316:16.5x10-6 For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both a faraday cage to shield outside EM, and to complete a magnetic flux circuit which channels the flux from internal permanent mags. Since stainless is only about 50% Fe, a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not. In that case, is he using magnetic properties to help control the reaction? Is it causing alignment of grains, or forcing dipole oscillations to be aligned? -Mark From: Jones Beene Robert Lynn wrote: And all of the resistive heating elements are positioned around it, so they do nothing but deliver heat to the reactor contents - no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. There is still confusion on that point. From Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing -of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/ They described the E-Cat HT as a cylinder having a silicon nitride
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
A steady state magnetic field will penetrate the stainless steel. A time changing one will be attenuated as eddy currents induced within the metal generate a reverse field that counters the source field to an extent that depends upon the rate of change of that field. The metal thickness is also crucial to the ultimate level of shielding. Mark, as you say the changes in the PWM waveform that occur at a slow rate will find their way inside. I am not confident that this is a mechanism that Rossi uses, but it might have some effect. It appears strange that Rossi does not wish to reveal the resistor drive waveforms. Perhaps he is using a moderate frequency drive signal for some reason that we are unaware of, only he knows. One thing is obvious, he likes to keep us guessing. Dave -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, May 24, 2013 5:18 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Mr. Lynn, You’re a bit too quick on the trigger… Let me repeat myself, a *magnetic* field WILL penetrate most austenitic stainless steels. However, I know that a static mag-field is not the same as the magnetic component of an oscillating EM field, so I called a colleague who worked for Varian for 40 years, and who has a lot of magnetics expertise. He said that static, and possibly VLF, magnetic fields will penetrate nonmagnetic stainless steels, but that the magnetic component of EM waves of any significant frequency will probably not. Another consideration, and I think this was mentioned in the Collective two (or was it three) years ago right after Rossi’s first January demonstration, is that when the electrical resistance heaters are energized (with DC), they will generate a mag-fld around them. This can probably be considered a static mag-field, and will likely penetrate the non-magnetic 310 stainless cylinder, so the internal core of the reactor may very well feel this PWM-modulated field. -Mark Iverson From: Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:57 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves are very weak anyway. (not that many turns). If he wanted or needed magnetic fields to penetrate the reactor then he would not be using spiral wound resistors arrayed around the reactor vessel, he would have a coil wound around the reactor vessel. As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. On 24 May 2013 17:56, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Looks like Dardik’s superwave tech is an application – not a granted patent http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardikei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en Mark, In the end – it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a “trade secret” per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S-314.pdf From: MarkI-ZeroPoint “It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?” Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: “The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel.” End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310:15.5x10-6 316:16.5x10-6 For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both a faraday cage to shield outside EM, and to complete a magnetic flux
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Axils reference states: emission in the radio-frequency range 7-90 MHz. Well, 7 (40 meter band) to 90Mhz (~3 meters) is smack in the amateur radio (ham) bands: http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Hambands_color.pdf So, if anyone lives in the area of Rossis office, find and talk to the ham operators in the area and see if theyve been experiencing any significant interferences in the last few years! And on what bands? 0.5 J -Mark Iverson From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 1:07 PM To: vortex-l Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? The conductivity of stainless steel is about the same as Nichrome.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity This means that the RF that Rossi is feeding into the reactor through the heating elements will get into the reaction chamber. He uses this RF to stimulate the production of nano-particles in the form of Rydberg matter. What is the purpose of the preparatory high frequencies pumped into the Rossi reaction chamber over the power lines? Explanation follows: http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During_ Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/transcription.htm Transcription of the Anniversary E-Cat Interview Regarding the Radio frequency generator. S. Also, while we are talking about the function of the technology, there is also been talk both from you and others about some kind of a frequency that is used to impose on the system, some kind of electromagnetic radio... some kind of vibrational frequency. Could you talk about that for a minute? A. I am very sorry. I am very sorry, but this is a confidential issue. Yes, we use... I can say you this... That we use a system that is similar to what happens in the martial arts, oriental martial arts. Sorry, my pronunciation is a bit shaky. The effect is based on the fact the forces that theoretically should fight against us, and I mean the Coulomb forces, are used to help us. This is the principle. And this is the issue. This effect is an effect where we have turned to our advantage what theoretically has to be to our disadvantage. That is all I can tell you my friend. The enticing clue for the disbelieving set is the proprietary radio frequency generator that has emissions to interact with the reactions inside of the core. Along with the catalysts this is information that will stay secret as long as possible. What did slip is Mr. Rossi compared the use of the radio frequencies to martial arts. Rossi explained that the radio frequency generator allows the forces that would normally prevent the fusion process from taking place (Coulomb forces) to work for you, and not against you. Rossi offers that the full theory of how the system works will be revealed, as he put it, soon. Reference: http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0607/0607193.pdf Precision bond lengths for Rydberg Matter clusters KN (N = 19, 37, 61 and 91) in excitation levels n = 4 - 8 from rotational radiofrequency emission spectra Clusters of the electronically excited condensed matter Rydberg Matter (RM) are planar and six-fold symmetric with magic numbers N = 7, 19, 37, 61 and 91. The bond distances in the clusters are known with a precision of ± 5% both from theory and Coulomb explosion experiments. Long series of up to 40 consecutive lines from rotational transitions in such clusters are now observed in emission in the radio-frequency range 7-90 MHz. The clusters are produced in five different vacuum chambers equipped with RM emitters. The RF is forming potassium clusters in the reaction chamber.. On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. . . . As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. And let me repeat myself. It is possible that the pattern of heating and cooling somehow triggers the reaction and this pattern is what Rossi is trying to hide. This pattern may not be complicated. Suppose it is simple. Suppose you heat the sample sharply at first, and then back off the input power. That is how Fleischmann and Pons triggered their boil off events. Even if it is simple, it is still worth a great deal of money if he can file a patent on it before the secret gets out. Fleischmann and Pons did not use RF at all. It was purely thermal stimulation. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
I think we are getting somewhere in this investigation by looking at the subtle and not so subtle effects of low frequency waves. A search of the Dardik superwave information shows that many of the carrier waves are low frequency. Some are very low. The classic example is the “rogue wave” in the Ocean which is not just subhertz but a few per year. And yes the trouble with “deconstructing Andre” is that he is fond of mixing truth, half-truth, and intentional decoy information… sometimes in the same sentence. From: David Roberson A steady state magnetic field will penetrate the stainless steel. A time changing one will be attenuated as eddy currents induced within the metal generate a reverse field that counters the source field to an extent that depends upon the rate of change of that field. The metal thickness is also crucial to the ultimate level of shielding. Mark, as you say the changes in the PWM waveform that occur at a slow rate will find their way inside. I am not confident that this is a mechanism that Rossi uses, but it might have some effect. It appears strange that Rossi does not wish to reveal the resistor drive waveforms. Perhaps he is using a moderate frequency drive signal for some reason that we are unaware of, only he knows. One thing is obvious, he likes to keep us guessing. Dave -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, May 24, 2013 5:18 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Mr. Lynn, You’re a bit too quick on the trigger… Let me repeat myself, a *magnetic* field WILL penetrate most austenitic stainless steels. However, I know that a static mag-field is not the same as the magnetic component of an oscillating EM field, so I called a colleague who worked for Varian for 40 years, and who has a lot of magnetics expertise. He said that static, and possibly VLF, magnetic fields will penetrate nonmagnetic stainless steels, but that the magnetic component of EM waves of any significant frequency will probably not. Another consideration, and I think this was mentioned in the Collective two (or was it three) years ago right after Rossi’s first January demonstration, is that when the electrical resistance heaters are energized (with DC), they will generate a mag-fld around them. This can probably be considered a static mag-field, and will likely penetrate the non-magnetic 310 stainless cylinder, so the internal core of the reactor may very well feel this PWM-modulated field. -Mark Iverson From: Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com? ] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:57 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves are very weak anyway. (not that many turns). If he wanted or needed magnetic fields to penetrate the reactor then he would not be using spiral wound resistors arrayed around the reactor vessel, he would have a coil wound around the reactor vessel. As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. On 24 May 2013 17:56, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Looks like Dardik’s superwave tech is an application – not a granted patent http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardik http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardikei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en ei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en Mark, In the end – it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a “trade secret” per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S-314.pdf From: MarkI-ZeroPoint “It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?” Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Dave states regarding Rossi: “One thing is obvious, he likes to keep us guessing.” I hope so… if he didn’t, we’d be really bored! J -mark From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 2:38 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? A steady state magnetic field will penetrate the stainless steel. A time changing one will be attenuated as eddy currents induced within the metal generate a reverse field that counters the source field to an extent that depends upon the rate of change of that field. The metal thickness is also crucial to the ultimate level of shielding. Mark, as you say the changes in the PWM waveform that occur at a slow rate will find their way inside. I am not confident that this is a mechanism that Rossi uses, but it might have some effect. It appears strange that Rossi does not wish to reveal the resistor drive waveforms. Perhaps he is using a moderate frequency drive signal for some reason that we are unaware of, only he knows. One thing is obvious, he likes to keep us guessing. Dave
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
If we’re talking about ON/OFF mag-fields making it inside the reactor, and the presence of very small ferromagnetic particles, I could easily see the particles becoming aligned with the field, and *equally spaced* and perhaps even suspended(?)… we all know that geometry has something to do with it! Man, all sorts of images are flooding in now… like, do NAEs within the aligned/equally-spaced/suspended particles undergo the reaction, but then one has to let them all fall to the floor to distribute the heat to reactor walls? -Mark Iverson From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 2:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? I think we are getting somewhere in this investigation by looking at the subtle and not so subtle effects of low frequency waves. A search of the Dardik superwave information shows that many of the carrier waves are low frequency. Some are very low. The classic example is the “rogue wave” in the Ocean which is not just subhertz but a few per year. And yes the trouble with “deconstructing Andre” is that he is fond of mixing truth, half-truth, and intentional decoy information… sometimes in the same sentence. From: David Roberson A steady state magnetic field will penetrate the stainless steel. A time changing one will be attenuated as eddy currents induced within the metal generate a reverse field that counters the source field to an extent that depends upon the rate of change of that field. The metal thickness is also crucial to the ultimate level of shielding. Mark, as you say the changes in the PWM waveform that occur at a slow rate will find their way inside. I am not confident that this is a mechanism that Rossi uses, but it might have some effect. It appears strange that Rossi does not wish to reveal the resistor drive waveforms. Perhaps he is using a moderate frequency drive signal for some reason that we are unaware of, only he knows. One thing is obvious, he likes to keep us guessing. Dave -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, May 24, 2013 5:18 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Mr. Lynn, You’re a bit too quick on the trigger… Let me repeat myself, a *magnetic* field WILL penetrate most austenitic stainless steels. However, I know that a static mag-field is not the same as the magnetic component of an oscillating EM field, so I called a colleague who worked for Varian for 40 years, and who has a lot of magnetics expertise. He said that static, and possibly VLF, magnetic fields will penetrate nonmagnetic stainless steels, but that the magnetic component of EM waves of any significant frequency will probably not. Another consideration, and I think this was mentioned in the Collective two (or was it three) years ago right after Rossi’s first January demonstration, is that when the electrical resistance heaters are energized (with DC), they will generate a mag-fld around them. This can probably be considered a static mag-field, and will likely penetrate the non-magnetic 310 stainless cylinder, so the internal core of the reactor may very well feel this PWM-modulated field. -Mark Iverson From: Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com? ] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:57 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves are very weak anyway. (not that many turns). If he wanted or needed magnetic fields to penetrate the reactor then he would not be using spiral wound resistors arrayed around the reactor vessel, he would have a coil wound around the reactor vessel. As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. On 24 May 2013 17:56, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Looks like Dardik’s superwave tech is an application – not a granted patent http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardik http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardikei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en ei
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
The heat distribution inside the cat is superfluidic. On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 6:04 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: If we’re talking about ON/OFF mag-fields making it inside the reactor, and the presence of very small ferromagnetic particles, I could easily see the particles becoming aligned with the field, and **equally spaced** and perhaps even suspended(?)… we all know that geometry has something to do with it! ** ** Man, all sorts of images are flooding in now… like, do NAEs within the aligned/equally-spaced/suspended particles undergo the reaction, but then one has to let them all fall to the floor to distribute the heat to reactor walls? ** ** -Mark Iverson ** ** *From:* Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] *Sent:* Friday, May 24, 2013 2:54 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? ** ** I think we are getting somewhere in this investigation by looking at the subtle and not so subtle effects of low frequency waves. ** ** A search of the Dardik superwave information shows that many of the carrier waves are low frequency. Some are very low. ** ** The classic example is the “rogue wave” in the Ocean which is not just subhertz but a few per year. ** ** And yes the trouble with “deconstructing Andre” is that he is fond of mixing truth, half-truth, and intentional decoy information… sometimes in the same sentence. ** ** ** ** *From:* David Roberson ** ** A steady state magnetic field will penetrate the stainless steel. A time changing one will be attenuated as eddy currents induced within the metal generate a reverse field that counters the source field to an extent that depends upon the rate of change of that field. The metal thickness is also crucial to the ultimate level of shielding.*** * Mark, as you say the changes in the PWM waveform that occur at a slow rate will find their way inside. I am not confident that this is a mechanism that Rossi uses, but it might have some effect. It appears strange that Rossi does not wish to reveal the resistor drive waveforms. Perhaps he is using a moderate frequency drive signal for some reason that we are unaware of, only he knows. One thing is obvious, he likes to keep us guessing. Dave -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, May 24, 2013 5:18 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Mr. Lynn, You’re a bit too quick on the trigger… Let me repeat myself, a **magnetic** field WILL penetrate most austenitic stainless steels. However, I know that a static mag-field is not the same as the magnetic component of an oscillating EM field, so I called a colleague who worked for Varian for 40 years, and who has a lot of magnetics expertise. He said that static, and possibly VLF, magnetic fields will penetrate nonmagnetic stainless steels, but that the magnetic component of EM waves of any significant frequency will probably not. Another consideration, and I think this was mentioned in the Collective two (or was it three) years ago right after Rossi’s first January demonstration, is that when the electrical resistance heaters are energized (with DC), they will generate a mag-fld around them. This can probably be considered a static mag-field, and will likely penetrate the non-magnetic 310 stainless cylinder, so the internal core of the reactor may very well feel this PWM-modulated field. -Mark Iverson *From:* Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.comrobert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com?] *Sent:* Friday, May 24, 2013 10:57 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves are very weak anyway. (not that many turns). If he wanted or needed magnetic fields to penetrate the reactor then he would not be using spiral wound resistors arrayed around the reactor vessel, he would have a coil wound around the reactor vessel. As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Axil, This addresses an earlier post you made. The boiling point of nickel is about 2700 C and the melting is about 1400 C. Ecat fuel never reaches temperatures close to the boiling point so you don't need to suppose bubble formation is suppressed because the fuel behaving a like a superfluid. harry On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The heat distribution inside the cat is superfluidic. On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 6:04 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: If we’re talking about ON/OFF mag-fields making it inside the reactor, and the presence of very small ferromagnetic particles, I could easily see the particles becoming aligned with the field, and **equally spaced** and perhaps even suspended(?)… we all know that geometry has something to do with it! ** ** Man, all sorts of images are flooding in now… like, do NAEs within the aligned/equally-spaced/suspended particles undergo the reaction, but then one has to let them all fall to the floor to distribute the heat to reactor walls? ** ** -Mark Iverson ** ** *From:* Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] *Sent:* Friday, May 24, 2013 2:54 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? ** ** I think we are getting somewhere in this investigation by looking at the subtle and not so subtle effects of low frequency waves. ** ** A search of the Dardik superwave information shows that many of the carrier waves are low frequency. Some are very low. ** ** The classic example is the “rogue wave” in the Ocean which is not just subhertz but a few per year. ** ** And yes the trouble with “deconstructing Andre” is that he is fond of mixing truth, half-truth, and intentional decoy information… sometimes in the same sentence. ** ** ** ** *From:* David Roberson ** ** A steady state magnetic field will penetrate the stainless steel. A time changing one will be attenuated as eddy currents induced within the metal generate a reverse field that counters the source field to an extent that depends upon the rate of change of that field. The metal thickness is also crucial to the ultimate level of shielding.** ** Mark, as you say the changes in the PWM waveform that occur at a slow rate will find their way inside. I am not confident that this is a mechanism that Rossi uses, but it might have some effect. It appears strange that Rossi does not wish to reveal the resistor drive waveforms. Perhaps he is using a moderate frequency drive signal for some reason that we are unaware of, only he knows. One thing is obvious, he likes to keep us guessing. Dave -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, May 24, 2013 5:18 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Mr. Lynn, You’re a bit too quick on the trigger… Let me repeat myself, a **magnetic** field WILL penetrate most austenitic stainless steels. However, I know that a static mag-field is not the same as the magnetic component of an oscillating EM field, so I called a colleague who worked for Varian for 40 years, and who has a lot of magnetics expertise. He said that static, and possibly VLF, magnetic fields will penetrate nonmagnetic stainless steels, but that the magnetic component of EM waves of any significant frequency will probably not. Another consideration, and I think this was mentioned in the Collective two (or was it three) years ago right after Rossi’s first January demonstration, is that when the electrical resistance heaters are energized (with DC), they will generate a mag-fld around them. This can probably be considered a static mag-field, and will likely penetrate the non-magnetic 310 stainless cylinder, so the internal core of the reactor may very well feel this PWM-modulated field. -Mark Iverson *From:* Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.comrobert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com?] *Sent:* Friday, May 24, 2013 10:57 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. My impression is that the only proprietary waveform would have been in the current going into the resistive elements in the body of the E-Cat, fed by power cables going into it. There doesn't seem to have been much speculation this time around about RF being beamed into the device from outside, although this has been a topic of speculation in the past. It seems like any special waveform going into the joule heating would be an irrelevant detail to the testing if proper, full spectrum measurements were made of the power coming in from the wall; whether and to what extent this was done remains to be clarified by the authors. If I had to speculate, the pulses are not all that special -- they're just to maximize the heat of the system without relying on an unstable T^4 law. I get the impression that this is what Defkalion are trying to do as well. Sort of like integrating the area under a curve by slicing it up into a bunch of pulses that are easy to control. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
Mark, please note I have design experience in electromagnetics (postgrad degree in EE machine design) so as I said excepted DC (in common electrical engineering parlance that is the non-time varying portion) and possibly some very attenuated low frequency (100's of Hz) EM my point remains. Rossi is (to me worryingly) needlessly obfuscating/preventing measurement of voltage current and so power in resistive heaters, because they do no more than supply heat to the reactor, there is no other magic in what they contribute. Many here would do well to spend a minute or two reading up on the simple concept of AC EM field exclusion via skin effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect On 24 May 2013 22:18, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Mr. Lynn, You’re a bit too quick on the trigger… ** ** Let me repeat myself, a **magnetic** field WILL penetrate most austenitic stainless steels. ** ** However, I know that a static mag-field is not the same as the magnetic component of an oscillating EM field, so I called a colleague who worked for Varian for 40 years, and who has a lot of magnetics expertise. He said that static, and possibly VLF, magnetic fields will penetrate nonmagnetic stainless steels, but that the magnetic component of EM waves of any significant frequency will probably not. ** ** Another consideration, and I think this was mentioned in the Collective two (or was it three) years ago right after Rossi’s first January demonstration, is that when the electrical resistance heaters are energized (with DC), they will generate a mag-fld around them. This can probably be considered a static mag-field, and will likely penetrate the non-magnetic 310 stainless cylinder, so the internal core of the reactor may very well feel this PWM-modulated field. ** ** -Mark Iverson ** ** *From:* Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, May 24, 2013 10:57 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? ** ** To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves are very weak anyway. (not that many turns). ** ** If he wanted or needed magnetic fields to penetrate the reactor then he would not be using spiral wound resistors arrayed around the reactor vessel, he would have a coil wound around the reactor vessel. ** ** As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. ** ** On 24 May 2013 17:56, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Looks like Dardik’s superwave tech is an application – not a granted patent http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardikei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en Mark, In the end – it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a “trade secret” per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. ** ** Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S-314.pdf *From:* MarkI-ZeroPoint “It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no?” Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: “The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically. Cap adherence was obtained by exploiting the higher thermal expansion coefficient of AISI 316 with respect to AISI 310 steel.” End caps are made of 316 due to greater coef of thermal expansion: 310:15.5x10-6 316:16.5x10-6 For our noninvasive glucose sensor, we used a Ni-plated soft iron housing which acts as both
Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The boiling point of nickel is not related to superfluidity. The polaritron condensate is where superfluidity come from. Any condensate will be superfluidic in the volume that it covers. I know, but in the other post you said a superfluid can't boil (i.e. produce bubbles) when heated. My point is ordinary fluids don't bubble either until they reach their boiling point, so an absence of bubbles doesn't prove a fluid is a superfluid. Harry On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.comwrote: Axil, This addresses an earlier post you made. The boiling point of nickel is about 2700 C and the melting is about 1400 C. Ecat fuel never reaches temperatures close to the boiling point so you don't need to suppose bubble formation is suppressed because the fuel behaving a like a superfluid. harry On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The heat distribution inside the cat is superfluidic. On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 6:04 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: If we’re talking about ON/OFF mag-fields making it inside the reactor, and the presence of very small ferromagnetic particles, I could easily see the particles becoming aligned with the field, and **equally spaced** and perhaps even suspended(?)… we all know that geometry has something to do with it! ** ** Man, all sorts of images are flooding in now… like, do NAEs within the aligned/equally-spaced/suspended particles undergo the reaction, but then one has to let them all fall to the floor to distribute the heat to reactor walls? ** ** -Mark Iverson ** ** *From:* Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] *Sent:* Friday, May 24, 2013 2:54 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? ** ** I think we are getting somewhere in this investigation by looking at the subtle and not so subtle effects of low frequency waves. ** ** A search of the Dardik superwave information shows that many of the carrier waves are low frequency. Some are very low. ** ** The classic example is the “rogue wave” in the Ocean which is not just subhertz but a few per year. ** ** And yes the trouble with “deconstructing Andre” is that he is fond of mixing truth, half-truth, and intentional decoy information… sometimes in the same sentence. ** ** ** ** *From:* David Roberson ** ** A steady state magnetic field will penetrate the stainless steel. A time changing one will be attenuated as eddy currents induced within the metal generate a reverse field that counters the source field to an extent that depends upon the rate of change of that field. The metal thickness is also crucial to the ultimate level of shielding. Mark, as you say the changes in the PWM waveform that occur at a slow rate will find their way inside. I am not confident that this is a mechanism that Rossi uses, but it might have some effect. It appears strange that Rossi does not wish to reveal the resistor drive waveforms. Perhaps he is using a moderate frequency drive signal for some reason that we are unaware of, only he knows. One thing is obvious, he likes to keep us guessing. Dave -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, May 24, 2013 5:18 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Mr. Lynn, You’re a bit too quick on the trigger… Let me repeat myself, a **magnetic** field WILL penetrate most austenitic stainless steels. However, I know that a static mag-field is not the same as the magnetic component of an oscillating EM field, so I called a colleague who worked for Varian for 40 years, and who has a lot of magnetics expertise. He said that static, and possibly VLF, magnetic fields will penetrate nonmagnetic stainless steels, but that the magnetic component of EM waves of any significant frequency will probably not. Another consideration, and I think this was mentioned in the Collective two (or was it three) years ago right after Rossi’s first January demonstration, is that when the electrical resistance heaters are energized (with DC), they will generate a mag-fld around them. This can probably be considered a static mag-field, and will likely penetrate the non-magnetic 310 stainless cylinder, so the internal core of the reactor may very well feel this PWM-modulated field. -Mark Iverson *From:* Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.comrobert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com?] *Sent:* Friday, May 24, 2013 10:57 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement
RE: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input?
I did not get down far enough in your first reply and was writing mine when your next one came in. Many here are quite familiar with the skin effect. and my previous work was noninvasive glucose measurement using RF/MW frequencies from 300Khz to 20Ghz, so this is nothing new. As I said in my first response to this issue: a mag fld should penetrate it, but due to its electrical conductivity, an E-fld would not. What I took issue with was this statement of yours: no special magnetic or electrical excitation can pass through the reactor vessel. If by 'special' you mean oscillating, then yes, but I was referring to a static B-fld. Good to have your expertise in the Collective! -Mark From: Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 5:53 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? Mark, please note I have design experience in electromagnetics (postgrad degree in EE machine design) so as I said excepted DC (in common electrical engineering parlance that is the non-time varying portion) and possibly some very attenuated low frequency (100's of Hz) EM my point remains. Rossi is (to me worryingly) needlessly obfuscating/preventing measurement of voltage current and so power in resistive heaters, because they do no more than supply heat to the reactor, there is no other magic in what they contribute. Many here would do well to spend a minute or two reading up on the simple concept of AC EM field exclusion via skin effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect On 24 May 2013 22:18, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Mr. Lynn, You're a bit too quick on the trigger. Let me repeat myself, a *magnetic* field WILL penetrate most austenitic stainless steels. However, I know that a static mag-field is not the same as the magnetic component of an oscillating EM field, so I called a colleague who worked for Varian for 40 years, and who has a lot of magnetics expertise. He said that static, and possibly VLF, magnetic fields will penetrate nonmagnetic stainless steels, but that the magnetic component of EM waves of any significant frequency will probably not. Another consideration, and I think this was mentioned in the Collective two (or was it three) years ago right after Rossi's first January demonstration, is that when the electrical resistance heaters are energized (with DC), they will generate a mag-fld around them. This can probably be considered a static mag-field, and will likely penetrate the non-magnetic 310 stainless cylinder, so the internal core of the reactor may very well feel this PWM-modulated field. -Mark Iverson From: Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:57 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why did Rossi prevent detailed measurement of the power input? To repeat myself, there will be no significant em field penetrating the reactor. So don't try to fool yourself that there is some special secret about using em fields to instigate or promote the reaction, also Rossi has claimed in past to have it running using gas heating. Rossi's setup only allows for heat to get in. The skin depth of the 3mm thick SS vessel will exclude all fields above probably about 100-200Hz entirely, and will greatly attenuate lower frequencies as well (DC would get through) but the surrounding magnetic fields in the resistors themselves are very weak anyway. (not that many turns). If he wanted or needed magnetic fields to penetrate the reactor then he would not be using spiral wound resistors arrayed around the reactor vessel, he would have a coil wound around the reactor vessel. As such preventing measurement of current and voltage through the heating resistors looks very suspicious - as there is nothing there to be sensibly hidden if we take him at his word. On 24 May 2013 17:56, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Looks like Dardik's superwave tech is an application - not a granted patent http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardik http://www.google.com/patents/US20080316782?dq=energetics+dardikei=LJufUbH wM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en ei=LJufUbHwM8XsiwLe5oDgDgcl=en Mark, In the end - it looks to me like the secrecy about the wave-from was probably due to similarity to the Energetics patent and not a trade secret per se; and that Rossi is using the magnetic properties of the waveform to stimulate the nickel powder, which is itself ferromagnetic. Would you agree? SS spec sheet: http://www.northamericanstainless.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Grade-310S- 314.pdf From: MarkI-ZeroPoint It is possible that RF would pass through these ceramics, no? Yes, more than likely that RF could pass thru a ceramic, however, if electrically conductive, then probably not. An E or B field will most likely go thru the ceramics, but the reactor vessel is stainless steel: The most important
