from:"H LV"

If the instrumentation was so contentious then IH should not have allowed
the year long test to go forward, or at least they should have formally
told Rossi that they would not respect the results of the test even if
Rossi insisted on performing the test.

harry

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> a.ashfield  wrote:
>
>
>> My point to Jed earlier was why "expert" IH would allow improper
>> instrumentation (if that were the case) to begin with.  It doesn't make
>> sense.
>>
>
> They did not want to allow this. It was a bone of contention. Rossi wanted
> one set of instruments and procedures, and I.H. wanted another. They were
> arguing about it for a long time. (I do not know how long, and I do not
> know whether the instruments were changed out at some point, but anyway,
> the dispute began early.)
>
> It "doesn't make sense" because what you are describing did not happen.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

2016-06-03 Thread H LV

Peter, this is how private R works. Neither Leonardo Corp. nor IH owe the
public any information.

Harry

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> *dear Jed,*
> *i have just been writing my answer to this assertion:*
>
> *Announced a year ago this could be an argument but even then how could
> Rossi depart from the test plan; how many reactors were "inoperable" and in
> which sense? Flawed measurements have to be reported immediately and what
> unsuitable measuring instruments were used- for a long year for
> temperature, pressure, flow- seismometers, dynamometers, microscopes?*
>
> *Now post-factum after 4 reports of the ERV, after alternative
> measurements by IH employees. such arguments are dead.*
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> a.ashfield  wrote:
>>
>>> IH has apparently sent Krivit a copy of their legal response to the
>>> court case.
>>>
>> I expect he found it by some other means.
>>
>> From a quick scan it doesn’t look like they have stated the E-Cat doesn’t
>>> work . . .
>>>
>>
>> It says this on p. 2, in the footnote:
>>
>> "Guaranteed Performance Test" that the Complaint purposely ignores (such
>> as departing from the purported test plan, ignoring inoperable reactors,
>> relying on flawed measurements, and using unsuitable measuring devices).
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:The most mysterious star in the universe

2016-06-03 Thread H LV

On May 30, 2016 6:38 PM,  wrote:
>
> In reply to  H LV's message of Mon, 30 May 2016 15:11:52 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
>
> 1) I wonder if they have considered the possibility that the output of
the star
> itself is simply variable?

Given what is known about how stars work they probably consider such a
possibility even less likely  than an alien structure blocking the light.
On the other hand perhaps an alien civilisation is tinkering with the
star's internal reactions.
Harry

>
> >The most mysterious star in the universe
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gypAjPp6eps
> >
> >Published on Apr 29, 2016
> >
> >Something massive, with roughly 1,000 times the area of Earth, is
blocking
> >the light coming from a distant star known as KIC 8462852, and nobody is
> >quite sure what it is. As astronomer Tabetha Boyajian investigated this
> >perplexing celestial object, a colleague suggested something unusual:
Could
> >it be an alien-built megastructure? Such an extraordinary idea would
> >require extraordinary evidence. In this talk, Boyajian gives us a look at
> >how scientists search for and test hypotheses when faced with the
unknown.
> >
> >?Harry?
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>

Re: [Vo]:Running on lava

2016-06-03 Thread H LV

"Welcome to Hell"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ETCM90yHiY

A British view of Hell ;-)

Harry

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence 
wrote:

> I particularly like the bit toward the end, where he steps off the flow,
> and as he's taking the last step, he lifts up his foot, and the sole of his
> shoe is flaming.  (Easier to see in the slo-mo replay.)
>
> On 06/01/2016 11:51 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
> See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumUw0lNOz0
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 9:00 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If the instrumentation was so contentious then IH should not have allowed
>> the year long test to go forward . . .
>>
>
> Apparently they could not stop it. I do not know why. I know nothing at
> all about the contract or agreements or why Rossi ended up in charge.
>
>
>
>> . . .  or at least they should have formally told Rossi that they would
>> not respect the results of the test even if Rossi insisted on performing
>> the test.
>>
>
> I am sure they did tell him that!
>



You know they did, or you presume they did?

Harry



> They also told to the general public on March 10, before the lawsuit was
> filed, in this statement:
>
>


> http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?p=1741
>
> No one in his right mind would respect the results of this test.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi and Leonardo Corp legal position improves

2016-06-06 Thread H LV

Oh F***. I don't give a Sh*T one way or the other.

Harry



On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Steve High <diamondweb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why presume that the Court suspects IH as being the party who has
> committed economic crime?
>
> On Monday, June 6, 2016, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> from
>>
>>
>> https://thenewfire.wordpress.com/good-prospects-for-rossi-and-leonardo-corp-lawsuit/
>> 
>>
>> <<
>> The reassignment of the lawsuit to the District Court Judge Cecilia
>> Altonaga and the consulting of the economic crime specialist Magistrate
>> John O’Sullivan, indicates that the court already has an initial suspicion
>> towards economic crime and therefore the lawsuit will not be rejected on
>> the basis of technicalities.
>> >>
>>
>> Harry
>>
>>

[Vo]:Gears in 4-Dimensions?

2016-06-10 Thread H LV

This video shows how three interlocking gears in 2-D cannot turn each
other, but three interlocking gears in 3-D can. Some of the commentators
wondered if interlocking gears could work in  4-D? I did a quick google
search and could not find anything on the concept of gears in 4-D. It would
be interesting to know if the question has been explored mathematically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mf0JpTI_gg

Harry

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> +Jed, I have not seen much entrepreneurial spirit in your comments here. I
> did not know you were an entrepreneur - you hide that well. You are a
> believer in the governments ability to innovate and run business. Sorry,
> but it sounds to me as the opposite.
> However, I might be wrong about your entrepreneurial skills. I am sure
> that you are dead wrong when it comes to Rossi's entrepreneurial spirits. I
> might not know much about caliometry but I know an entrepreneur when I see
> one in action. Suddenly I thought maybe you are as poor judging the other
> information you have? Well, that is speculation as you keep your info
> secret.
> If that info is as bad as your constant repeating that Rossi padlocked the
> door. Then you have nada. IH was not allowed to customer's site already in
> agreement.
> Take a look at Rossi - a real entrepreneur and as such pron to be
> overoptimistic and even overstate his accomplishment. No, it is not as
> prudent as required by academic standard. However, that is why
> entrepreneurs rather than professors take as a giant step here and there.
> Judgement of Rossi is certainly still too early. I hope he has much more
> than you give him credit for. I am not going to be disappointed if he did
> not achieve the numbers he has claimed.I admit there are several not so
> clear messages from Rossi but that is to be expected. It is too little info
> to make judgement.
> Wait and see. The reality is what it is and the value in labeling people
> is close to zero.
>
>


 "real entrepreneur" is also a label.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Dear Johannes

2016-05-25 Thread H LV

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 6:08 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:

> Woah! I didn't expect to see so much commentary on this particular
> thread.  I had to re-subscribe a while longer.
>
>
>
> Harry, the link you supplied on Feynman's Lost Lecture on Motions around
> the Sun did the trick for me. I finally get what your animated GIF was
> trying to tell me. I like what Feynman did with the empty foci. That is
> cool! Thanks!
>
>
>
> It will be interesting to see if I can find any linkages with what Feynman
> did and what I'm trying to work out with my own velocity vector work.
>
>
>
> You're working on a third way?
>
>
>

Feynman's way appears to be the same as my own, but there are differences.
Notice that Feynman's large circle or velocity circle, which contains the
ellipse, is centred on the Sun. I don't use a velocity circle but I do use
 a large circle which appears to be the same thing as the velocity circle.
However, the centre of my large circle is located at the empty focus (Fe).

I see gravitational motion as a dance of circles rather than as a force
acting on inertial motion. In my opinion the law of inertia should only
apply to motions which are clearly caused by collisions or forces of
contact. In this respect I am granting circles a power they have not had
since before Newton.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

Those qualities aren't unique to entrepreneurs. They can be found in other
creative people. What makes an entrepreneur special is their need to
succeed in the marketplace.

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Lennart Thornros <lenn...@thornros.com>
wrote:

> Harry,
> You are right.
> However, that label does not say anything about the persons character or
> mental capacity.
> Entrepreneurship does not come down to good or bad.
> I base it on :
> Determination.
> Optimism.
> Stubborn.
> Unpredictable.
> Result oriented before money oriented.
> and a few other things I think we mostly agree on and have seen over the
> years.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:54 AM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Lennart Thornros <lenn...@thornros.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> +Jed, I have not seen much entrepreneurial spirit in your comments here.
>>> I did not know you were an entrepreneur - you hide that well. You are a
>>> believer in the governments ability to innovate and run business. Sorry,
>>> but it sounds to me as the opposite.
>>> However, I might be wrong about your entrepreneurial skills. I am sure
>>> that you are dead wrong when it comes to Rossi's entrepreneurial spirits. I
>>> might not know much about caliometry but I know an entrepreneur when I see
>>> one in action. Suddenly I thought maybe you are as poor judging the other
>>> information you have? Well, that is speculation as you keep your info
>>> secret.
>>> If that info is as bad as your constant repeating that Rossi padlocked
>>> the door. Then you have nada. IH was not allowed to customer's site already
>>> in agreement.
>>> Take a look at Rossi - a real entrepreneur and as such pron to be
>>> overoptimistic and even overstate his accomplishment. No, it is not as
>>> prudent as required by academic standard. However, that is why
>>> entrepreneurs rather than professors take as a giant step here and there.
>>> Judgement of Rossi is certainly still too early. I hope he has much more
>>> than you give him credit for. I am not going to be disappointed if he did
>>> not achieve the numbers he has claimed.I admit there are several not so
>>> clear messages from Rossi but that is to be expected. It is too little info
>>> to make judgement.
>>> Wait and see. The reality is what it is and the value in labeling people
>>> is close to zero.
>>>
>>>
>> 
>>
>>  "real entrepreneur" is also a label.
>>
>> Harry
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

If it is true that IH offered to pay Rossi a sum of money to the cancel the
test then that implies IH considered Rossi's IP to be valuable at that
time.

Harry

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 10:41 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> Eric & Jed,
>
> Consider the time line
>
> Summer 2015  Rossi was offered a sum to cancel the test
> Rossi's counter offer was to return the $11.5 million paid and cancel IH's
> license.
> Feb 18 test of a one megawatt heat plant completed
> Apr 05 Rossi sues.  Rossi et al v. Darden et al
> May 15 date Penon report given to Rossi and D/IH  (hard to pin down exact
> date)
> June 2 Leonardo Corp terminated license with IH
>
> So Rossi sued Darden before either party had received the Penon's report.
> Rossi would not sue IH without getting a strong indication that IH were
> not going to pay him
>
> As for IH  then feeding critics propaganda about how Penon's report was
> rubbish see Sifferkoll for names like Dewey Weaver (& possibly Jed)
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

Lennart,
If you were making a tacit distinction between entrepeneurs and investors
then I agree.

Harry

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:41 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Those qualities aren't unique to entrepreneurs. They can be found in other
> creative people. What makes an entrepreneur special is their need to
> succeed in the marketplace.
>
> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Lennart Thornros <lenn...@thornros.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Harry,
>> You are right.
>> However, that label does not say anything about the persons character or
>> mental capacity.
>> Entrepreneurship does not come down to good or bad.
>> I base it on :
>> Determination.
>> Optimism.
>> Stubborn.
>> Unpredictable.
>> Result oriented before money oriented.
>> and a few other things I think we mostly agree on and have seen over the
>> years.
>>
>> Best Regards ,
>> Lennart Thornros
>>
>>
>> lenn...@thornros.com
>> +1 916 436 1899
>>
>> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
>> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:54 AM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Lennart Thornros <lenn...@thornros.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> +Jed, I have not seen much entrepreneurial spirit in your comments
>>>> here. I did not know you were an entrepreneur - you hide that well. You are
>>>> a believer in the governments ability to innovate and run business. Sorry,
>>>> but it sounds to me as the opposite.
>>>> However, I might be wrong about your entrepreneurial skills. I am sure
>>>> that you are dead wrong when it comes to Rossi's entrepreneurial spirits. I
>>>> might not know much about caliometry but I know an entrepreneur when I see
>>>> one in action. Suddenly I thought maybe you are as poor judging the other
>>>> information you have? Well, that is speculation as you keep your info
>>>> secret.
>>>> If that info is as bad as your constant repeating that Rossi padlocked
>>>> the door. Then you have nada. IH was not allowed to customer's site already
>>>> in agreement.
>>>> Take a look at Rossi - a real entrepreneur and as such pron to be
>>>> overoptimistic and even overstate his accomplishment. No, it is not as
>>>> prudent as required by academic standard. However, that is why
>>>> entrepreneurs rather than professors take as a giant step here and there.
>>>> Judgement of Rossi is certainly still too early. I hope he has much
>>>> more than you give him credit for. I am not going to be disappointed if he
>>>> did not achieve the numbers he has claimed.I admit there are several not so
>>>> clear messages from Rossi but that is to be expected. It is too little info
>>>> to make judgement.
>>>> Wait and see. The reality is what it is and the value in labeling
>>>> people is close to zero.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  "real entrepreneur" is also a label.
>>>
>>> Harry
>>>
>>
>>
>

[Vo]:Rossi and Leonardo Corp legal position improves

from

https://thenewfire.wordpress.com/good-prospects-for-rossi-and-leonardo-corp-lawsuit/


<<
The reassignment of the lawsuit to the District Court Judge Cecilia
Altonaga and the consulting of the economic crime specialist Magistrate
John O’Sullivan, indicates that the court already has an initial suspicion
towards economic crime and therefore the lawsuit will not be rejected on
the basis of technicalities.
>>

Harry

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

I was just looking for some clarification.

Harry

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:48 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I am sure they did tell him that!
>>>
>> 
>>
>> You know they did, or you presume they did?
>>
>
> They told me they did. Why wouldn't they?
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

Come on down!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmyV_dBZHU0

Harry

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> The 200th post is mine!
>
> 2016-06-05 21:43 GMT-03:00 Eric Walker :
>
>> On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 7:31 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>

Re: [Vo]:Neuglu - the newly discovered boson

2016-05-28 Thread H LV

More examples of programmable magnets

https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=2m14s

Harry

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 2:46 PM, H Ucar  wrote:

> This demonstation of 'correlated magnetic phenomenon' is not working
> as explained. Obviously if magnets allowed to move freely they arrange
> their positions for attraction only and they will stick. Otherwise
> they had found a way to circumvent the Earnshaw theorem.
>
> On 5/28/16, Jones Beene  wrote:
> > -Original Message-
> > From: H Ucar
> >
> >> I experimentally show oscillatory magnetic interaction between dipole
> >> bodies exhibits strong repulsion at short distance therefore provides
> >> eqilibrium for the bound state in presence of attractive magnetic or
> >> electric forces... This mechanism could be the origin of weak and strong
> >> interactions without requiring new forces or glue particles Since
> the
> >> bound states through magnetic interactions are fully dynamic, it might
> be
> >> possible to disturb or break it easier than if based on static
> forces
> >
> >
> > This is insightful - and I agree with the general conclusion despite the
> > vast difference in scale, when moving from centimeters to angstroms. The
> > same point is also made by the "correlated magnetic" phenomenon, in which
> > "repel" and "attract" functions are coded into a single magnet, which
> does
> > both depending on relative position.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POc32aioLFE
> >
> > The strong and weak force could be a similar situation - with the
> so-called
> > 5th force being a relic of one or the other.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Neuglu - the newly discovered boson

2016-05-28 Thread H LV

Interesting how they are able to design a pair of magnets to either attract
until they repel or to repel until they attract.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLZMJYqEdQw

Harry

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 3:31 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:

> More examples of programmable magnets
>
> https://youtu.be/IANBoybVApQ?t=2m14s
>
> Harry
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 2:46 PM, H Ucar <jjam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This demonstation of 'correlated magnetic phenomenon' is not working
>> as explained. Obviously if magnets allowed to move freely they arrange
>> their positions for attraction only and they will stick. Otherwise
>> they had found a way to circumvent the Earnshaw theorem.
>>
>> On 5/28/16, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: H Ucar
>> >
>> >> I experimentally show oscillatory magnetic interaction between dipole
>> >> bodies exhibits strong repulsion at short distance therefore provides
>> >> eqilibrium for the bound state in presence of attractive magnetic or
>> >> electric forces... This mechanism could be the origin of weak and
>> strong
>> >> interactions without requiring new forces or glue particles Since
>> the
>> >> bound states through magnetic interactions are fully dynamic, it might
>> be
>> >> possible to disturb or break it easier than if based on static
>> forces
>> >
>> >
>> > This is insightful - and I agree with the general conclusion despite the
>> > vast difference in scale, when moving from centimeters to angstroms. The
>> > same point is also made by the "correlated magnetic" phenomenon, in
>> which
>> > "repel" and "attract" functions are coded into a single magnet, which
>> does
>> > both depending on relative position.
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POc32aioLFE
>> >
>> > The strong and weak force could be a similar situation - with the
>> so-called
>> > 5th force being a relic of one or the other.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

[Vo]:The most mysterious star in the universe

2016-05-30 Thread H LV

The most mysterious star in the universe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gypAjPp6eps

Published on Apr 29, 2016

Something massive, with roughly 1,000 times the area of Earth, is blocking
the light coming from a distant star known as KIC 8462852, and nobody is
quite sure what it is. As astronomer Tabetha Boyajian investigated this
perplexing celestial object, a colleague suggested something unusual: Could
it be an alien-built megastructure? Such an extraordinary idea would
require extraordinary evidence. In this talk, Boyajian gives us a look at
how scientists search for and test hypotheses when faced with the unknown.

Harry

[Vo]:Olli - a self-driving 3D printed bus

2016-06-19 Thread H LV

Local Motors Debuts "Olli", the First Self-driving Vehicle to Tap the Power
of IBM Watson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K564rXrlZbc


Olli - based on IBM Waston AI Self-driving Technology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HtGsrzSpII

Harry

[Vo]:Powerful Shot Against Believers In "No Safe Dose" Of Radiation

2016-06-25 Thread H LV

Powerful Shot Against Believers In "No Safe Dose" Of Radiation


On Friday, Biological Theory published the equivalent of a “bunker buster”
salvo in a decades-long war of words between scientists.

On one side are people who believe that there is no safe dose of radiation.
They assert that radiation protection regulations should continue using a
linear, no threshold model.

The other side includes those who say that sufficient evidence has been
gathered to show there are dose levels below which there is no permanent
damage. They say the evidence indicates the possibility of a modest health
improvement over a range of low doses and dose rates. They believe that the
LNT model is obsolete and does not do a good job of protecting people from
harm.



(more at link)



http://www.forbes.com/sites/rodadams/2016/06/19/powerful-shot-against-believers-in-no-safe-dose-of-radiation

Re: [Vo]:LENR has roots, needs wings

2016-02-09 Thread H LV

I am talking about more the severe operation of deliberately concealing
from a child their cultural roots.

Harry

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Lennart Thornros <lenn...@thornros.com>
wrote:

> Harry, how about laser roots?
> Children need to test their wings early, rather sooner than later. Laser
> roots can always find them.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 10:37 AM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Some people in positions of authority mistakenly believe it is necessary
>> to cut children off from their roots before they can fly.
>>
>> Harry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Peter Gluck <peter.gl...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 'Flying roots' is an oxymoron I like much
>>>
>>> think about it, please  when reading:
>>>
>>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/02/feb-09-2016-lenr-has-roots-but-needs.html
>>>
>>> peter
>>> --
>>> Dr. Peter Gluck
>>> Cluj, Romania
>>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR has roots, needs wings

2016-02-09 Thread H LV

Some people in positions of authority mistakenly believe it is necessary to
cut children off from their roots before they can fly.

Harry

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

>
>
> 'Flying roots' is an oxymoron I like much
>
> think about it, please  when reading:
>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/02/feb-09-2016-lenr-has-roots-but-needs.html
>
> peter
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:LIGO Gravity Waves... So what?

2016-02-12 Thread H LV

Dave, I think that link was posted by H Ucar.

Harry

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 11:21 AM, David Roberson  wrote:

> That paper is damaged according to my computer but I found the one that
> Harry posted.
>
> Do you have information concerning the filtering that the signal plus
> noise is subjected to before it is interpreted?   Also,  do these events
> only take place at at low rate throughout the universe?  I suppose that is
> true for super nova explosions and this is likely to be just as rare of an
> event.
>
> These teams need to be congratulated if the detections continue to be
> confirmed.  I remain weary of announcements that are produced so quickly.
>
> Dave
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Giovanni Santostasi 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Fri, Feb 12, 2016 11:08 am
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:LIGO Gravity Waves... So what?
>
> Here is the paper:
> https://journals.aps.org/prl/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.061102
>
> The detection statistics is 5.1 sigma, that corresponds to a p value of
> 3x10-7 or 1 in 3.5 million that the signal is due to chance. In the paper
> they discuss the background noise and what to expect from it.
> But what is more astounding is the waveform itself as detected by both
> detectors (with a small time shift expected by the fact the waves travel at
> the velocity of light).
> You have a beautiful time evolution of the signal. In fact you can
> separate the detected signal in 3 parts: inspiraling, merger and ring down.
> They use relativistic approximate equations (basically an expansion with
> correction at many decimal places) to find a model that fits the observed
> data and only a merger of black holes with certain masses, orientation
> towards the detector, spin and distance fits with high accuracy the data.
> It is almost incredible how well the model actually fits the data. Besides
> some non Gaussian noise that is always present in the detector the observed
> waveforms look like the solution of a GR graduate textbook end of chapter
> exercise problem.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 10:57 AM, David Roberson 
> wrote:
>
>> How can we be confident that this is not just a false alarm?  It seems a
>> bit premature to make this announcement since the claimed event is a
>> billion light years away from Earth.  Are we to assume that this particular
>> event at that great distance is the only one that is showing up on the
>> instrument?  What proof is there that millions more are not present at
>> closer distances which would be noise to filter out?
>>
>> Has anyone released information concerning the signal to noise for this
>> discovery?  Also, it is a bit difficult to believe that the device can tell
>> the actual distance and direction of the black hole collision.
>>
>> Has this been replicated?  There is much more evidence for cold fusion
>> than for this discovery and I have a strong suspicion that it will be
>> overturned one day.  Big science making big claims again...I hope it is
>> true but it is unlikely.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Giovanni Santostasi 
>> To: vortex-l 
>> Sent: Thu, Feb 11, 2016 9:28 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:LIGO Gravity Waves... So what?
>>
>> By the way, gravitational waves were the topic of my dissertation so feel
>> free to ask any question about the topic. It is very fascinating.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Giovanni Santostasi <
>> gsantost...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It opens a complete different window on the Universe.
>>> The analogy that is often given is imagine the cosmic show is like a TV
>>> show. Until now we had video but not audio. Finally we turned the audio on.
>>> Gravitational waves are a different but complementary way to observe the
>>> universe.
>>> We already learning things we could not learn before just using EM
>>> radiation. For example that there are black holes systems with such large
>>> masses.
>>> This has consequences in terms of galaxy evolution and how stars were
>>> formed.
>>> And this is just the beginning.
>>> The ultimate price is when we will see the gravitational waves from Big
>>> Bang.
>>> While the Microwave Cosmic Background tell us abut the universe at a
>>> very early stage (500 K years) we cannot receive any earlier information
>>> about the universe using EM radiation.
>>> The equivalent gravitational wave background when detected will tells
>>> information from a fraction of a second after the Big Bang. Only
>>> gravitational radiation can give us a picture of the universe that early.
>>>
>>> Also information from events like the one just observed eventually would
>>> give us clues on how gravity and quantum mechanics work together.
>>> The consequences of this discovery are enormous.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Russ George 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It seems the announcement of showing gravity

Re: [Vo]:Re: LIGO Gravity Waves... So what?

2016-02-12 Thread H LV

If seismic events include resonances on a continental or a global scale
such resonances could also be used to explain the signal.

In the case of SETI an observed signal must be confirmed as
extra-terrestrial in origin before it is considered significant. However,
even if LIGO detected a terrestrial signal it would still be significant.

Harry


>

Re: [Vo]:OT: trolling taken to a new level

2016-02-11 Thread H LV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5ZDJrJsnYw

Harry

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Reddit, there's a subreddit that follows the exploits of "Ken M", who
> comments on Yahoo! News and similar forums that focus on general news.
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/KenM/
> http://i.imgur.com/8h8sgrq.png
> http://imgur.com/QpSJ5Og
>
> Sometimes he can be uninformed in several ways, all in the same sentence.
> What motivated him to start doing this was the indignation and
> self-righteousness of some of the commenters on these sites.
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]:maybe the best account and video of first LIGO gravity wave 2015.09.14: The New Yorker: Rich Murray 2016.02.11

2016-02-11 Thread H LV

I think it is more likely the Earth burped.

Harry

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Rich Murray  wrote:

> maybe the best account and video of first LIGO gravity wave 2015.09.14:
> The New Yorker: Rich Murray 2016.02.11
>
> http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2016/02/maybe-best-account-and-video-of-first.html
>
>
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/gravitational-waves-exist-heres-how-scientists-finally-found-them
>
> [ about 1 minute video, time slowed down about 100X -- the two black holes
> spiral around each other, making 11 half-turns before merging suddenly
> the black holes are invisible, so we see their twisted space-time showing
> highly distorted swirling views of their far away galactic background --
> this happened
> 1.3 billion years away ( 1.3 billion years ago -- our nearest neighbor
> galaxy Andromeda is about 2.2 million lightyears away ( 2.2 million years
> old from us -- our galaxy is about 0.1 million lightyears wide... ]
>
> TODAY 10:30 AM
> Gravitational Waves Exist: The Inside Story of How Scientists Finally
> Found Them
> BY NICOLA TWILLEY
>
> "Just over a billion years ago, many millions of galaxies from here, a
> pair of black holes collided.
> They had been circling each other for aeons, in a sort of mating dance,
> gathering pace with each orbit, hurtling closer and closer.
> By the time they were a few hundred miles apart, they were whipping around
> at nearly the speed of light, releasing great shudders of gravitational
> energy.
> Space and time became distorted, like water at a rolling boil.
> In the fraction of a second that it took for the black holes to finally
> merge, they radiated a hundred times more energy than all the stars in the
> universe combined. They formed a new black hole, sixty-two times as heavy
> as our sun and almost as wide across as the state of Maine.
> As it smoothed itself out, assuming the shape of a slightly flattened
> sphere, a few last quivers of energy escaped.
> Then space and time became silent again."
>
> [ Another source says they reached a top speed of half the speed of light
> as they merged... ]
>
> "On  Sunday, September 13th, Effler spent the day at the Livingston site
> with a colleague, finishing a battery of last-minute tests.
> “We yelled, we vibrated things with shakers, we tapped on things, we
> introduced magnetic radiation, we did all kinds of things,” she said. “And,
> of course, everything was taking longer than it was supposed to.”
> At four in the morning, with one test still left to do — a simulation of a
> truck driver hitting his brakes nearby — they decided to pack it in.
> They drove home, leaving the instrument to gather data in peace.
> The signal arrived not long after, at 4:50 A.M. local time, passing
> through the two detectors within seven milliseconds of each other.
> [ In Louisiana and in Oregon, 1,865 miles apart ]
> It was four days before the start of Advanced LIGO’s first official run."
>
> "Since the September 14th detection, LIGO has continued to observe
> candidate signals, although none are quite as dramatic as the first event.
> “The reason we are making all this fuss is because of the big guy,” Weiss
> said. “But we’re very happy that there are other, smaller ones, because it
> says this is not some unique, crazy, cuckoo effect.”
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIGO
>
>
> "These sites are separated by 3,002 kilometers (1,865 miles).
> Since gravitational waves are expected to travel at the speed of light,
> this distance corresponds to a difference in gravitational wave arrival
> times of up to ten milliseconds."
>
> "After an equivalent of approximately 75 trips down the 4 km length to the
> far mirrors and back again, the two separate beams leave the arms and
> recombine at the beam splitter."
>
> "Based on current models of astronomical events, and the predictions of
> the general theory of relativity, gravitational waves that originate tens
> of millions of light years from Earth are expected to distort the 4
> kilometer mirror spacing by about 10E−18 m, less than one-thousandth the
> charge diameter of a proton. Equivalently, this is a relative change in
> distance of approximately one part in 10E 21.
> A typical event which might cause a detection event would be the late
> stage inspiral and merger of two 10 solar mass black holes, not necessarily
> located in the Milky Way galaxy, which is expected to result in a very
> specific sequence of signals often summarized by the slogan chirp, burst,
> quasi-normal mode ringing, exponential decay."
>
>
>
> http://www.nature.com/news/einstein-s-gravitational-waves-found-at-last-1.19361
>
> "One black hole was about 36 times the mass of the Sun, and the other was
> about 29 solar masses.
> As they spiraled inexorably into one another, they merged into a single,
> more-massive gravitational sink in space-time that weighed 62 solar masses,
> the LIGO team estimates."
> [ So, 3 solar masses was radiated away as invisible

Re: [Vo]:LIGO Gravity Waves... So what?

2016-02-11 Thread H LV

In another report I heard black hole collisions are thought to occur only
once in a million years.
Is that true?

Also how can they know for certain that this not a seismic event? After all
there is a great deal we do not know about the Earth's interior.

Harry

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 9:27 PM, Giovanni Santostasi 
wrote:

> By the way, gravitational waves were the topic of my dissertation so feel
> free to ask any question about the topic. It is very fascinating.
>
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Giovanni Santostasi <
> gsantost...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It opens a complete different window on the Universe.
>> The analogy that is often given is imagine the cosmic show is like a TV
>> show. Until now we had video but not audio. Finally we turned the audio on.
>> Gravitational waves are a different but complementary way to observe the
>> universe.
>> We already learning things we could not learn before just using EM
>> radiation. For example that there are black holes systems with such large
>> masses.
>> This has consequences in terms of galaxy evolution and how stars were
>> formed.
>> And this is just the beginning.
>> The ultimate price is when we will see the gravitational waves from Big
>> Bang.
>> While the Microwave Cosmic Background tell us abut the universe at a very
>> early stage (500 K years) we cannot receive any earlier information about
>> the universe using EM radiation.
>> The equivalent gravitational wave background when detected will tells
>> information from a fraction of a second after the Big Bang. Only
>> gravitational radiation can give us a picture of the universe that early.
>>
>> Also information from events like the one just observed eventually would
>> give us clues on how gravity and quantum mechanics work together.
>> The consequences of this discovery are enormous.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Russ George 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It seems the announcement of showing gravity waves are real is only of
>>> value to obscure academic discussions. Unless someone here might illuminate
>>> us about some practical derivatives that might be revealed due to the
>>> findings.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

from
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OAcb975m_AXMFz25zcl07kllERqVjSbZsWv_P1A3xQc/edit?pref=2=1
Bob Higgins writes:
"There was a significant gamma outburst measured in GS5.2 whose
broadband high energy spectrum is not only unexplainable by known
chemistry and physics, but may also not be explainable by many of the
present theories for LENR!"

He also says the the spectrum on figure 6 probably continues to rise
on the left side but it drops off due to the detector's sensitivity
limit.

Harry

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Roarty, Francis X
 wrote:
> Yes a little underwhelming but if they truly have a hands down recipe to
> repeatable anomalous heat it will probably get a number of industry labs and
> their funding off the fence wrt LENR. Now researchers can prove to their
> management this is real.
>
> Fran
>
> From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:44 AM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?
>
>
>
> Where is the big surprise?
>
> I woke this morning with anticipation - expecting to see proof from MFMP of
> a 5 hour self-sustained reaction. Instead, we get graphs of modest gain at
> the noise level and radiation counts peaking in the few hundred per second –
> when we need to seeing a million times more - if the radiation does indeed
> relate to excess heat at kilowatt level. Yawn. Let’s hope there is much more
> forthcoming than this.
>
> What am I missing?

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

>From a nuclear science perspective the spectrum is something to get
excited about.
If a famous laboratory produced this spectrum I think it would be in the news.

Harry

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Well - OK... there is a tiny signal - but let's look at the counts per minute 
> or per second.
>
> We are talking about 20 per second or so instead of a background of 4 or so. 
> This is really "banana level" (bananas are slightly radioactive).
>
> You would need to see trillions of times this level if there was 5 hours of 
> SSM - being produced by nuclear fusion.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: H LV
>
> from
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OAcb975m_AXMFz25zcl07kllERqVjSbZsWv_P1A3xQc/edit?pref=2=1
> Bob Higgins writes:
> "There was a significant gamma outburst measured in GS5.2 whose broadband 
> high energy spectrum is not only unexplainable by known chemistry and 
> physics, but may also not be explainable by many of the present theories for 
> LENR!"
>
> He also says the the spectrum on figure 6 probably continues to rise on the 
> left side but it drops off due to the detector's sensitivity limit.
>
> Harry
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Roarty, Francis X 
> <francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:
>> Yes a little underwhelming but if they truly have a hands down recipe
>> to repeatable anomalous heat it will probably get a number of industry
>> labs and their funding off the fence wrt LENR. Now researchers can
>> prove to their management this is real.
>>
>> Fran
>>
>> From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:44 AM
>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Where is the big surprise?
>>
>> I woke this morning with anticipation - expecting to see proof from
>> MFMP of a 5 hour self-sustained reaction. Instead, we get graphs of
>> modest gain at the noise level and radiation counts peaking in the few
>> hundred per second – when we need to seeing a million times more - if
>> the radiation does indeed relate to excess heat at kilowatt level.
>> Yawn. Let’s hope there is much more forthcoming than this.
>>
>> What am I missing?
>

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

How about the Maxwell-boltzmann distribution?
http://ibchem.com/IB/ibnotes/full/sta_htm/Maxwell_Boltzmann.htm

Lower temperatures have higher peaks which is the opposite of a
blackbody distribution.

Harry

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Bob Higgins  wrote:
> One of the researchers that I discussed this with suggested that the
> spectrum looked like a blackbody radiation.  I did some analysis and can
> tell you that it does NOT look like blackbody radiation.  Blackbody
> radiation cuts off very sharply on the high energy side.  At 100 million
> degrees, there would be some energy at 100keV, but by the time it got to
> 1MeV, the blackbody radiation would have declined by 40 orders of magnitude.
> That is not what is seen here.
>
> It is really hard to explain a continuous spectrum that looks like it
> probably spans at least 2 orders of magnitude in photon energy with maximum
> energies over 1MeV.  The best explanations so far (and there has not been a
> chance for widespread vetting) are that it is due to:  1) Bremsstrahlung
> from really high energy light charged particles [electrons, positrons] with
> a distribution of energy, or 2) interference in the NaI detector by a flux
> of neutral particles causing the apparent spectrum by activation of the Na,
> I, and Th in the detector crystal.
>
> Thank you for the links.  I will have a look these papers.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Daniel Rocha 
> wrote:
>>
>> The peak is at least 10x more than that of you provided...
>>
>> Bob Higgins, in my work with Akito, I proposed that in cold fusion you
>> have, unlike the conventional fusion, the fusion of more than 2 nuclei.
>> There are not experiments with more than 2 nuclei fusioning (C12 is formed
>> by B8, which is stable for 10^-15s, I am talking here of something less than
>> 10^-23s in coincidence). This will form an excited ball that will shine at a
>> few kev. There will surely be brehmstralung, from this weak gama rays.
>>
>> http://vixra.org/abs/1209.0057
>>
>> http://vixra.org/abs/1401.0202
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

An energy distribution whose peak becomes higher at lower temperatures
might help to explain
why the Lugano reactor's surface temperature appeared to be too high
for how it looked visually.

Harry

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:20 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How about the Maxwell-boltzmann distribution?
> http://ibchem.com/IB/ibnotes/full/sta_htm/Maxwell_Boltzmann.htm
>
> Lower temperatures have higher peaks which is the opposite of a
> blackbody distribution.
>
> Harry
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>> One of the researchers that I discussed this with suggested that the
>> spectrum looked like a blackbody radiation.  I did some analysis and can
>> tell you that it does NOT look like blackbody radiation.  Blackbody
>> radiation cuts off very sharply on the high energy side.  At 100 million
>> degrees, there would be some energy at 100keV, but by the time it got to
>> 1MeV, the blackbody radiation would have declined by 40 orders of magnitude.
>> That is not what is seen here.
>>
>> It is really hard to explain a continuous spectrum that looks like it
>> probably spans at least 2 orders of magnitude in photon energy with maximum
>> energies over 1MeV.  The best explanations so far (and there has not been a
>> chance for widespread vetting) are that it is due to:  1) Bremsstrahlung
>> from really high energy light charged particles [electrons, positrons] with
>> a distribution of energy, or 2) interference in the NaI detector by a flux
>> of neutral particles causing the apparent spectrum by activation of the Na,
>> I, and Th in the detector crystal.
>>
>> Thank you for the links.  I will have a look these papers.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Daniel Rocha <danieldi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The peak is at least 10x more than that of you provided...
>>>
>>> Bob Higgins, in my work with Akito, I proposed that in cold fusion you
>>> have, unlike the conventional fusion, the fusion of more than 2 nuclei.
>>> There are not experiments with more than 2 nuclei fusioning (C12 is formed
>>> by B8, which is stable for 10^-15s, I am talking here of something less than
>>> 10^-23s in coincidence). This will form an excited ball that will shine at a
>>> few kev. There will surely be brehmstralung, from this weak gama rays.
>>>
>>> http://vixra.org/abs/1209.0057
>>>
>>> http://vixra.org/abs/1401.0202
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

2016-02-22 Thread H LV

Hi Matt,

The general expectation among Rossi supporters is that he is going to
supply the world with a super fuel. Among his detractors the general
expectation is that he is engaged in fraud. However,
I take 
Rossi
's ambiguous remarks as
 hint
 to his supporters that
 their
 expectations
 need an adjustment

. With this in mind, I think the expectations which inform research into
"cold fusion" phenomena also need
 an adjustment
.

In broad terms, there are three domains of energy research: Energy
production, energy storage and energy conversion.
The view of the nucleus as a super fuel places it in the research domain of
energy production. This view underwrites the claims of "excess heat" every
time an anomalous heat effect occurs. Every claim of "excess heat" is a
claim of energy gain, but it is assumed that the energy used during the
_
preparation
_
 of the experiment is irrelevant to the claim of energy gain. However, I
think the preoccupation with "excess heat" has been blinding us to the true
significance of the anomalies. The anomalies point to new forms of energy
storage and conversion instead of a new form of energy production.

Furthermore, if
 the overriding aim of all nuclear
energy 
research is to give humanity a super fuel then the values of the fossil
fuel age will just continue under a different name with a different set of
environmentally unsustainable practices. In order to let go of the fossil
fuel age a new energy role for the very small
needs to be imagined 
that doesn't involve energy production.

(This critique applies to all the variants of the hydrino hypothesis as
well.)

Harry

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 6:41 PM, Mats Lewan <m...@matslewan.se> wrote:
> Harry, regarding heat into electricity conversion, Professor Eli
> Yablonovitch of the University of California seems to be doing some
> interesting stuff, as a side effect of having found a way to throw out
> photons with sub bandgap energy from photovoltaics.
>
> I’ve seen some hints, like this poster from last year:
>
http://www.zeplerinstitute.ac.uk/sites/www.zeplerinstitute.ac.uk/files/yablonovitch_lecture_poster_web_0.pdf
>
> "Thus the effort to reflect band-edge luminescence in solar cells has
> serendipitously created the technology to reflect all infrared
wavelengths,
> which can revolutionize thermo-photovoltaics. We have never before had
such
> high rear reflectivity for sub-bandgap radiation, permitting step-function
> spectral control of the unused infrared photons for the first time. This
> enables conversion from heat[iii] to electricity with >50% efficiency.
Such
> a lightweight “engine” can provide power to electric cars, aerial
vehicles,
> spacecraft, homes, and stationary power plants.”
>
> I couldn’t find the full paper though.
>
> Mats
> www.animpossibleinvention.com
>
>
>
> On 20 Feb 2016, at 19:30, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A typical goal of energy conversion is to convert heat into electricity
and
> to do it as efficiently as possible. However, if the goal is to convert
> electricity into heat the issue of efficiency also arises.
>
>
> An LED is efficient at converting electricity into light but it is
> inefficient at converting electricity in to heat. So if you wanted heat
and
> only had an LED how would you make it more efficient at producing heat?
>
> Harry
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re: the expected LENR Surprise Rossi's long time test over!

2016-02-22 Thread H LV

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Bob Higgins  wrote:

>
> Rossi is known to have purchased 62Ni a few years back from an isotope
> producer.  Also, another source claims to have provided some amount of 62Ni
> to Rossi.  So we know that Rossi obtained some 62Ni.  This does not mean
> that the 62Ni is not bred in Rossi's reactions - it may be that the reaction
> breeds 62Ni and that could be why Rossi has no need any longer to buy 62Ni.
>

Didn't Rossi say in 2011 or 2012 that he found an old man who could
supply him with enriched 62Ni
and at good price? I guess that old man was himself. ;-)

Harry

[Vo]:Bremsstrahlung radiation

2016-02-27 Thread H LV

Mathieu Valat of MFMP made this comment on the youtube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtTeHU4vBmc

Mathieu Valat14 hours ago
Bob gave a lot of himself in the last week. Big cheers up for this
video! For the record, my friends are retired nuclear scientists. What
they hypothesised is Bremsstrahlung radiation, right of the bat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremsstrahlung

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: H LV
>
> MFMP performed a great service by collecting and tabulating this data 
> What story do you read when you compare the active and null data sets over 
> time? My reading of the active data set begins with the storage of energy for 
> the first 19 hrs and ends with the periodic release of energy for the last 
> 9hrs.  'Excess Heat' is not evidentBased on this reading, is it possible 
> to explain the amount of energy stored and released using just chemistry?
>
> Harry,
>
> MFPF is most definitely providing a valuable role in this research, but as 
> you imply - they appear to have "jumped the gun" on this announcement. The 
> end result is that the lack of convincing evidence feeds into the agenda of 
> the Mary Yugo's of the world - just the opposite of what was intended.
>
> And the skeptics are right this time - there is nothing at all to get excited 
> about here... yet. The heat is in the noise level and the radiation has been 
> known for over a decade. Anyone can make a much better case for LENR by using 
> Rothwell's Library.
>
> We respect Greenyer's efforts. We hope that he is correct that there will be 
> more to come shortly. I think that there will be better evidence coming to 
> light shortly. It's just too bad that he raised expectations high 
> prematurely... and then had to scurry around to explain the fizzle. Mary 
> gloats.
>
> Jones


My impression is the *range* of the spectrum is new.
Harry

Re: [Vo]:Bremsstrahlung radiation

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Russ George  wrote:
> The photo of the detector placement has helped to understand this mystery
>
> As far as 'breaking radiation' aka Bremstrahlung, any form of energetic 
> particle coming to a halt produces that characteristic signal, whether they 
> are crazy heavy muons or speeding electrons...or ??? Neutron clusters or 
> tetraquarks or Rydberg hydrogen perhaps as they are rare but on the cold 
> fusion flavor of the day menus.
>
> The present situation with not even a dental x-ray worth of radiation being 
> observed is one thing as it derives from an infinitely small fraction of a 
> joule of nuclear activity, if hundreds of joules of cold fusion nuclear 
> activity are seen in similar x-rays the dose would be multiplied by a very 
> large number.

from
http://teachers.web.cern.ch/teachers/archiv/hst2000/teaching/expt/muons/cascades.htm
"As the mass of the muon is some 200 times that of the electron then
it can be expected to have a radiation length much greater than that
of the electron. This explains why muon energy loss by bremsstrahlung
is negligible compared with that of electrons and hence the muons are
capable of traversing much greater lengths of absorbing material
before being brought to rest."

So if the bremsstrahlung radiation were caused just by muons, the
energy loss would be negligible. Could this be why the heat produced
*appears* so small?

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Bremsstrahlung radiation

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: H LV
>
>> In the Lugano test dosimeters were used to check for gamma/xray emissions at 
>> more than 50 cm from the reactor... over the 32 day duration test it looks 
>> like the dosimeters didn't record anything above background... If the MFMP 
>> reactor resembles the Lugano reactor why didn't the dosimeters register any 
>> radiation?
>
>
> I may sound like a broken record on this but it is fairly obvious: remove the 
> lead bricks - the "apparent" radiation goes away. No lead at Lugano.
>
> The operative difference was the bricks. The lead captures muons which are 
> documented by the adjoining scintillator as gamma radiation. Some of the 
> muons are cosmic but some can be produced in the Holmlid effect.
>
> This can be easily tested next time around: remove the lead - the apparent 
> radiation goes away. In a thesis which was referenced earlier on the known 
> muon interaction with lead:
>

If it is do due cosmic rays then it is quite a coincident that it
happens just when the reactor enters phase 7.
Also if it is due to muons then it supports some of Holmlid research.
Nobody loses here.

Harry

> "overall the study has demonstrated that effects such as neutron production 
> in Pb shielding from muon interaction is an important effect in sensitive GRS 
> experiments as the
> secondary/tertiary neutrons produced may interact with target nuclei to 
> produce γ-ray events which could not be accounted for otherwise"
>
> https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OzhUEPLFX44J:https://researchbank.rmit.edu.au/eserv/rmit:161164/Turnbull.pdf+=11=en=clnk=us#87
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Bremsstrahlung radiation

If the  spectrum from the MFMP experiment really does come from the
reactor, and if MFMP reactor could run for 32 days
without lead shielding would one have to sit right next to it for the
entire time for it to be harmful?

Harry

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The sensors were placed relatively far away, and the total "dose" was low.
> For the electronic rate meters, they did not report what they detected,
> simply that it was below the alarm level that they had set (set where?).
> There was no spectrometry.
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 4:12 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> In the Lugano test dosimeters were used to check for gamma/xray
>> emissions at more than 50 cm from the reactor. (see Appendix 1)
>> http://amsacta.unibo.it/4084/1/LuganoReportSubmit.pdf
>> I don't understand all the jargon but over the 32 day duration test it
>> looks like the dosimeters didn't record anything above background.
>> If the MFMP reactor resembles the Lugano reactor why didn't the
>> dosimeters register any radiation?
>>
>> harry
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Bremsstrahlung radiation

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: H LV
>
>> In the Lugano test dosimeters were used to check for gamma/xray emissions at 
>> more than 50 cm from the reactor... over the 32 day duration test it looks 
>> like the dosimeters didn't record anything above background... If the MFMP 
>> reactor resembles the Lugano reactor why didn't the dosimeters register any 
>> radiation?
>
>
> I may sound like a broken record on this but it is fairly obvious: remove the 
> lead bricks - the "apparent" radiation goes away. No lead at Lugano.
>
> The operative difference was the bricks. The lead captures muons which are 
> documented by the adjoining scintillator as gamma radiation. Some of the 
> muons are cosmic but some can be produced in the Holmlid effect.
> This can be easily tested next time around: remove the lead - the apparent 
> radiation goes away. In a thesis which was referenced earlier on the known 
> muon interaction with lead:
>
> "overall the study has demonstrated that effects such as neutron production 
> in Pb shielding from muon interaction is an important effect in sensitive GRS 
> experiments as the
> secondary/tertiary neutrons produced may interact with target nuclei to 
> produce γ-ray events which could not be accounted for otherwise"
>
> https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OzhUEPLFX44J:https://researchbank.rmit.edu.au/eserv/rmit:161164/Turnbull.pdf+=11=en=clnk=us#87
>

This paper might be a good resource so here is a link which displays
all the charts and pictures.
https://researchbank.rmit.edu.au/eserv/rmit:161164/Turnbull.pdf

It is just my opinion, but I doubt that muons interacting with lead
would be capable of generating the observed the spectrum.
However, couldn't muons and electrons could both generate
Bremsstrahlung radiation?

harry

Re: [Vo]:Bremsstrahlung radiation

In the Lugano test dosimeters were used to check for gamma/xray
emissions at more than 50 cm from the reactor. (see Appendix 1)
http://amsacta.unibo.it/4084/1/LuganoReportSubmit.pdf
I don't understand all the jargon but over the 32 day duration test it
looks like the dosimeters didn't record anything above background.
If the MFMP reactor resembles the Lugano reactor why didn't the
dosimeters register any radiation?

harry

Re: [Vo]:Re: Bremsstrahlung radiation

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>
>> In the Lugano test dosimeters were used to check for gamma/xray
>> emissions at more than 50 cm from the reactor. (see Appendix 1)
>> http://amsacta.unibo.it/4084/1/LuganoReportSubmit.pdf
>> I don't understand all the jargon but over the 32 day duration test it
>> looks like the dosimeters didn't record anything above background.
>> If the MFMP reactor resembles the Lugano reactor why didn't the
>> dosimeters register any radiation?
>>
>> harry
>
>
> Because the fuel had been pre-processed and the gamma was produced during
> that pre-processing step.
>

If that is true then wonder how much energy was used to pre-process the fuel.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

Also if Bob higgins and MFMP could determine how the curve continues
to rise at lower energies then they could use it to calculate the
"excess heat".
This method would be far more sensitive than bulk calorimetry.

Harry

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 11:16 AM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Stefan Israelsson Tampe
> <stefan.ita...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why can't the peak be at 100eV or 10eV and many order of magnitude more
>> intense.
>
> Yes.
>
>>There is not much in the shown signal
>> that indicates a peak in teh extreme spectra near the seen peak in the
>> background. I think it looks like a 1/X^n curve that continues
>> way below the cutof of the instrument. The seen peak in the extreme spectra
>> is way to strange to be a normal peak, clearly an artefact of the
>> filtering of the instrument. So, if this is not an artefact, what we are
>> seeing can very well be something that is rare and the bulk of the
>> show is perhaps a result of much lower energetic electrons if we assume that
>> the brehmstrahlung is from a distribution of electrons with different
>> speeds. This does however indicate unexplained high energy releases and is a
>> clear signal of nuclear origin as stated.
>
> I think the entire spectrum is produced by nuclei.
> Harry

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

Ok. Presumably they would have caught their error had they succeeded
in attaching a thermocouple to the surface
of the reactor right over the reaction chamber.

Harry

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> AFAIK, the Lugano team never publicly commented on the errors found in their
> analyses.  Tom Clarke makes a good case for some portions of the surface
> envelope to be at 780C.  If this were the whole story, the reactor would
> have been seen as a barely detectable red glow.  MFMP found in its replica
> that the roots of the ridges were 50C hotter than the tips of the ridges.
> But, even this doesn't explain the appearance.  Alumina is well known to
> transmit a lot of light in the visible, and we see that in the visible light
> pictures.  I think this is a case like the incandescent light bulb, where
> you cannot use the 1 surface temperature to characterize anything but the
> convection which was a small part of the overall output power.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:31 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> If I remember correctly, the Lugano team did not provide any internal
>> temperatures. They only reported the surface temperatures which were
>> high enough that the reactor should have glowed white hot if it
>> behaved like an incandescent body. However, as Jed pointed out, the
>> pictures they provided were more consistent with an incandescent body
>> at a lower surface lower temperature. Most people decided this was a
>> consequence of their camera's settings. Did the Lugano team say this
>> was reason?
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I don't think that is the reason for the Lugano appearance.  The Lugano
>> > reactor was like an incandescent light bulb and it was not analyzed that
>> > way.  If you analyzed an incandescent light bulb, the appearance and its
>> > radiated power would not be represented by the temperature of the glass
>> > envelope.  Yes, the glass envelope temperature will be what you want to
>> > use
>> > for the envelope convection power and envelope contribution to the
>> > radiation
>> > power.  However, you must use the temperature of the filament and the
>> > transmission response of the glass envelope to determine the radiated
>> > power.
>> > At the Lugano temperatures, radiated power dominated and the
>> > transparency of
>> > the alumina was unknown and not factored into the equation.
>> >
>> > Back to the light bulb, the glass envelope temperature may only be 80C,
>> > but
>> > you would hardly ascribe its heat + light energy output or visual
>> > appearance
>> > to be that of a blackbody radiator at 80C.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:47 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> An energy distribution whose peak becomes higher at lower temperatures
>> >> might help to explain
>> >> why the Lugano reactor's surface temperature appeared to be too high
>> >> for how it looked visually.
>> >>
>> >> Harry
>> >>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

The long view

https://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject/photos/p.1126094137421284/1126094137421284/?type=3

Harry

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Bob Higgins 
> wrote:
>
>> The detection count was not as low as you seem to believe.  In spectrum 07
>> there were almost 300,000 counts in a signal that we believe probably lasted
>> only a minute or two. Suppose it was 2 minutes or 120 seconds.  That would
>> come out to 2500 counts/second.  Compare that to ~55,000 counts of
>> background in 14,160 seconds which is <4 counts per second.  That is a huge
>> difference.
>
>
> I think we are in agreement.  I had in mind that the absolute counts were
> low in comparison to the excess heat that was being reported at one point
> (COP 1.2), rather than that the counts were insignificant or at the
> threshold of noise.
>
>> Also, the solid angle of the detector which was sufficiently removed so as
>> to not suffer bad heating means that the overall total flux integrated over
>> 4pi was sizeable.
>
>
> This gets to the challenge of needing to show that the photons were sourced
> from the live cell.  This would be made easier with time resolution of the
> counts (which you mention) and a correlation with another dependent or
> independent variable.  If not excess power, then perhaps something else.
> (Input power?)
>
> Eric
>

Re: [Vo]:New paper from Jiang in Chinese

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

 >for the second run, shows a similar pattern, with T1 falling
> steadily and monotonically after the power is turned off, while T2 goes
> bananas. However, this graph also shows T4 increasing after the power turns
> off. T4 is mounted on the outside of the MgO insulation. It rises from 110°C
> up to 167°C. That could not be the effect of room temperature changes. It
> does look like anomalous heat being generated inside the cell.

Notice the delayed rise in T4 at the beginning of the experiment. The
rise in T4 after power is turned off might just be the delayed
dissipation of heat from inside to the outside.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:New paper from Jiang in Chinese

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Notice the delayed rise in T4 at the beginning of the experiment. The
>>
>> rise in T4 after power is turned off might just be the delayed
>> dissipation of heat from inside to the outside.
>
>
> I do not think so. Look closely as the power is being reduced, at around
> time 14:00, shortly before "Power off." (About 7 minutes before.) T4
> suddenly pops up, from 110°C up to around 120°C.
>
> Maybe that is just noise, but if it is real, it does not look like delayed
> dissipation to me.
>
> Unless the configuration of the cell is changed, I do not see how the
> dissipation could increase suddenly like that. By "changed" I mean for
> example, suppose the MgO insulation is wrapped around and attached with
> adhesive tape. Suppose you loosen the tape. The outside temperature might
> change suddenly. I doubt anyone would make such changes to the cell during a
> test.
>
> If there were heat left in the cell that had to be dissipated after the
> power is turned off, I suppose the T4 curve would continue rising at a
> steady pace for a while, then it would drop off. It would not have leveled
> off after 13:20. It seems the temperature inside the cell continued in a
> stable condition if we can believe that either T1 or T2 was working
> correctly. So there was no large increase in the internal temperature.
>
> Granted there was a sudden increase in temperature in T1 and T2. It happens
> at time 14:20. I just drew some lines on the graph, and I think that T1 and
> T2 go up and reach a peak about 6 minutes before T4 suddenly increased. T1
> continues for 26 minutes at the higher temperature.
>
> I would not expect T4 to pop up like that in response to the increase shown
> by T1 and T2. I would expect T4 to gradually rise in response to that
> increase. Perhaps it might continue after T1 peaks, but it would be a
> continual, gradual rise. That kind of slow rise is what T4 does after the
> initial jump, followed by a gradual decay.

Ok, but if there was so much more heat being produced in the reactor
why is T1 dropping so quickly while T4 is gradually rising?
Maybe the surface (see the diagram) on which the sensor was mounted
was warmed by a burst of xrays.

harry

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

MFMP performed a great service by collecting and tabulating this data.

https://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject/photos/p.1126094137421284/1126094137421284/?type=3

What story do you read when you compare the active and null data sets over time?

My reading of the active data set begins with the storage of energy
for the first 19 hrs and ends with the periodic release of energy for
the last 9hrs.  'Excess Heat' is not evident.

Based on this reading, is it possible to explain the amount of energy
stored and released using just chemistry?

Harry

[Vo]:Think Pink

2016-02-22 Thread H LV

NASA's Pink X-15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-dtqDirCS0

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

Jack,

Okay that would explain it. Were the active and null sides both
calibrated empty?

Harry

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Jack Cole <jcol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Harry,
>
> I can see where you would think that based on the active side being lower
> than null to start and later higher.  However, there was already the
> differential with the active side reading lower than the null side even
> during the calibration.  Also, chemistry effects in these types of
> experiments are fairly clear when they happen and usually don't last more
> than 30 mins (certainly less than 1 hour).  I base that on numerous
> experiments I have conducted, and the chemistry effects are seen at the
> temperatures where you expect them to occur.
>
> Were I to imagine a scenario where the excess heat was not real in this
> case, it would go like the following: at lower temperature, the heating coil
> has more space between the windings; at higher temperature, it pulls
> together beneath the TC producing a higher temp at that spot.  Then it
> relaxes when it cools off.  Of course that is imaginary, but a plausible
> alternative.  That is why it would be good to do at least conduction
> calorimetry.
>
> Jack
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 8:37 AM H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> MFMP performed a great service by collecting and tabulating this data.
>>
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject/photos/p.1126094137421284/1126094137421284/?type=3
>>
>> What story do you read when you compare the active and null data sets over
>> time?
>>
>> My reading of the active data set begins with the storage of energy
>> for the first 19 hrs and ends with the periodic release of energy for
>> the last 9hrs.  'Excess Heat' is not evident.
>>
>> Based on this reading, is it possible to explain the amount of energy
>> stored and released using just chemistry?
>>
>> Harry
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

Jack,
thanks for the links.
The calibration curves seem to indicate that the temperature
difference is significantly smaller then the temperature difference
which occurs during the experimental run so my interpretation is still
valid.

Harry

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Jack Cole <jcol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Harry,
> Here is an animated chart of the calibrations.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxxJkjesxe4kZ295dXF0cTVLSW8/view
>
> It doesn't appear that it was calibrated empty, but rather had an alumina
> rod inserted.  It's not completely clear to me what they did, but they did
> do 4 calibrations it appears.
> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/515-glowstick-5-2
>
> Jack
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 9:29 AM H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jack,
>>
>> Okay that would explain it. Were the active and null sides both
>> calibrated empty?
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Jack Cole <jcol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Harry,
>> >
>> > I can see where you would think that based on the active side being
>> > lower
>> > than null to start and later higher.  However, there was already the
>> > differential with the active side reading lower than the null side even
>> > during the calibration.  Also, chemistry effects in these types of
>> > experiments are fairly clear when they happen and usually don't last
>> > more
>> > than 30 mins (certainly less than 1 hour).  I base that on numerous
>> > experiments I have conducted, and the chemistry effects are seen at the
>> > temperatures where you expect them to occur.
>> >
>> > Were I to imagine a scenario where the excess heat was not real in this
>> > case, it would go like the following: at lower temperature, the heating
>> > coil
>> > has more space between the windings; at higher temperature, it pulls
>> > together beneath the TC producing a higher temp at that spot.  Then it
>> > relaxes when it cools off.  Of course that is imaginary, but a plausible
>> > alternative.  That is why it would be good to do at least conduction
>> > calorimetry.
>> >
>> > Jack
>> >
>> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 8:37 AM H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> MFMP performed a great service by collecting and tabulating this data.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> https://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject/photos/p.1126094137421284/1126094137421284/?type=3
>> >>
>> >> What story do you read when you compare the active and null data sets
>> >> over
>> >> time?
>> >>
>> >> My reading of the active data set begins with the storage of energy
>> >> for the first 19 hrs and ends with the periodic release of energy for
>> >> the last 9hrs.  'Excess Heat' is not evident.
>> >>
>> >> Based on this reading, is it possible to explain the amount of energy
>> >> stored and released using just chemistry?
>> >>
>> >> Harry
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> My reading of the active data set begins with the storage of energy
>> for the first 19 hrs and ends with the periodic release of energy for
>> the last 9hrs.  'Excess Heat' is not evident.
>
>
> I doubt there is a mechanism that would allow significant energy storage in
> this system.

In principle the nucleus has a tremendous capacity for absorbing energy.

>I think you seeing a deficit in the first 19 hours because the
> calorimetry does not capture all of the heat.

>
>>
>> Based on this reading, is it possible to explain the amount of energy
>> stored and released using just chemistry?
>
>
> What chemistry? Why hasn't it been seen before?

I just want to be sure that it is impossible.

Harry

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

If I remember correctly, the Lugano team did not provide any internal
temperatures. They only reported the surface temperatures which were
high enough that the reactor should have glowed white hot if it
behaved like an incandescent body. However, as Jed pointed out, the
pictures they provided were more consistent with an incandescent body
at a lower surface lower temperature. Most people decided this was a
consequence of their camera's settings. Did the Lugano team say this
was reason?

Harry

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think that is the reason for the Lugano appearance.  The Lugano
> reactor was like an incandescent light bulb and it was not analyzed that
> way.  If you analyzed an incandescent light bulb, the appearance and its
> radiated power would not be represented by the temperature of the glass
> envelope.  Yes, the glass envelope temperature will be what you want to use
> for the envelope convection power and envelope contribution to the radiation
> power.  However, you must use the temperature of the filament and the
> transmission response of the glass envelope to determine the radiated power.
> At the Lugano temperatures, radiated power dominated and the transparency of
> the alumina was unknown and not factored into the equation.
>
> Back to the light bulb, the glass envelope temperature may only be 80C, but
> you would hardly ascribe its heat + light energy output or visual appearance
> to be that of a blackbody radiator at 80C.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:47 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> An energy distribution whose peak becomes higher at lower temperatures
>> might help to explain
>> why the Lugano reactor's surface temperature appeared to be too high
>> for how it looked visually.
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:20 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > How about the Maxwell-boltzmann distribution?
>> > http://ibchem.com/IB/ibnotes/full/sta_htm/Maxwell_Boltzmann.htm
>> >
>> > Lower temperatures have higher peaks which is the opposite of a
>> > blackbody distribution.
>> >
>> > Harry
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> One of the researchers that I discussed this with suggested that the
>> >> spectrum looked like a blackbody radiation.  I did some analysis and
>> >> can
>> >> tell you that it does NOT look like blackbody radiation.  Blackbody
>> >> radiation cuts off very sharply on the high energy side.  At 100
>> >> million
>> >> degrees, there would be some energy at 100keV, but by the time it got
>> >> to
>> >> 1MeV, the blackbody radiation would have declined by 40 orders of
>> >> magnitude.
>> >> That is not what is seen here.
>> >>
>> >> It is really hard to explain a continuous spectrum that looks like it
>> >> probably spans at least 2 orders of magnitude in photon energy with
>> >> maximum
>> >> energies over 1MeV.  The best explanations so far (and there has not
>> >> been a
>> >> chance for widespread vetting) are that it is due to:  1)
>> >> Bremsstrahlung
>> >> from really high energy light charged particles [electrons, positrons]
>> >> with
>> >> a distribution of energy, or 2) interference in the NaI detector by a
>> >> flux
>> >> of neutral particles causing the apparent spectrum by activation of the
>> >> Na,
>> >> I, and Th in the detector crystal.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you for the links.  I will have a look these papers.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Daniel Rocha <danieldi...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The peak is at least 10x more than that of you provided...
>> >>>
>> >>> Bob Higgins, in my work with Akito, I proposed that in cold fusion you
>> >>> have, unlike the conventional fusion, the fusion of more than 2
>> >>> nuclei.
>> >>> There are not experiments with more than 2 nuclei fusioning (C12 is
>> >>> formed
>> >>> by B8, which is stable for 10^-15s, I am talking here of something
>> >>> less than
>> >>> 10^-23s in coincidence). This will form an excited ball that will
>> >>> shine at a
>> >>> few kev. There will surely be brehmstralung, from this weak gama rays.
>> >>>
>> >>> http://vixra.org/abs/1209.0057
>> >>>
>> >>> http://vixra.org/abs/1401.0202
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Big surprise or big dud ?

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Stefan Israelsson Tampe
 wrote:
> Why can't the peak be at 100eV or 10eV and many order of magnitude more
> intense.

Yes.

>There is not much in the shown signal
> that indicates a peak in teh extreme spectra near the seen peak in the
> background. I think it looks like a 1/X^n curve that continues
> way below the cutof of the instrument. The seen peak in the extreme spectra
> is way to strange to be a normal peak, clearly an artefact of the
> filtering of the instrument. So, if this is not an artefact, what we are
> seeing can very well be something that is rare and the bulk of the
> show is perhaps a result of much lower energetic electrons if we assume that
> the brehmstrahlung is from a distribution of electrons with different
> speeds. This does however indicate unexplained high energy releases and is a
> clear signal of nuclear origin as stated.

I think the entire spectrum is produced by nuclei.
Harry

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Researcher illegally shares millions of science papers free online to spread knowledge

2016-02-14 Thread H LV

I don't think she does much archiving. She has collected keys and pass
words (from anonymous donors) to other journal sites and her site applies
them automatically so you can download the paper for free.

Harry

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Russ George <russ.geo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I surely hope that there are mirrors of that data being created and saved
> everywhere. Paywalls in science have always been deplorable and have been
> avariciously supported by the vast majority of the scientific community.
> Once upon a time that is no longer there were costs associated with
> publication of science. There can be no reason to allow and sustain the
> billion dollar science journal banksters game.
>
>
>
> *From:* Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 14, 2016 10:49 AM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Researcher illegally shares millions of science
> papers free online to spread knowledge
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 11:57 AM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> A researcher in Russia has made more than 48 million journal articles -
> almost every single peer-reviewed paper every published - freely available
> online. And she's now refusing to shut the site down, despite a court
> injunction and a lawsuit from Elsevier, one of the world's biggest
> publishers.
>
>
>
> Interesting finding. I was unaware of this site.
>
>
>
> I am sympathetic with Alexandra Elbakyan's cause.  It is frustrating not
> to have ready access to a number of cold-fusion-related papers that one
> sees reference to from time to time.  But I don't see this case going the
> way she hopes it will.
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re: LIGO Gravity Waves... So what?

2016-02-12 Thread H LV

I thought about it some more. I will have to agree that the signal is most
likely produced by gravitational wave distortions of spacetime. I was
thinking LIGO was behaving like a supersized siesmometer. However, if it
behaved like siesmometer it would be incapable of generating such a signal.

Harry

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 12:39 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If seismic events include resonances on a continental or a global scale
> such resonances could also be used to explain the signal.
>
> In the case of SETI an observed signal must be confirmed as
> extra-terrestrial in origin before it is considered significant. However,
> even if LIGO detected a terrestrial signal it would still be significant.
>
> Harry
>
>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 10:57 AM, a.ashfield  wrote:

>
>
>
> Many prominent European social scientists have now come out in favor of
> basic income - among them two Nobel laureates in economics.  Alaska has a
> modest UBI instituted by a Republican governor, based on the profits from
> oil from Prudhoe Bay.  This amounts to $300 - $2000 a year for every
> resident of more than six months. Switzerland will have a referendum on
> whether to have a $2,400/month UBI in 2015 that looks unlikely to pass.  
> Perhaps
> a full UBI could be tried experimentally in a State or even a city,
> substituting for all welfare payments, to find out the problems.
>
>
If you haven't heard already, the Netherlands and Finland are going to
conduct basic income trials in the near future. 

> The main objection to UBI is how to pay for it.  Savings could come from 
> replacing
> the present 80 government welfare departments, that has the advantage of
> requiring little administration.  Legalizing drugs to drop the prison
> population. A one payer medical system and of course, getting out of the
> habit of wars.  That alone will not provide enough money, so perhaps
> changing the sales tax to manufacturers, rather than sellers, would capture
> some of the profits from advanced technology instead of it being winner
> takes all.
>
>
>

Covering the cost of a BI program will likely require a variety of
methods, but they can be divided into two main approaches. The funding
approach is usually considered first. This involves various cost saving
measures and taxation schemes for the redistribution of wealth. However
there is also a finance approach which would involve the reform of the
central banks. See _Economic Sustainability of Basic Income Under a
Citizen-centered Monetary Regime_

http://www.basicincome.org/bien/pdf/munich2012/Inoue.pdf 

Abstract: This paper outlines the historical transformation from
“administration-centered monetary regimes” to “bank-centered monetary
regimes.” It reveals three defects in the latter: (1) difficulty overcoming
recessions, (2) a tendency to create bubbles, and (3) opaque distribution
of seigniorage. This study proposes a “citizen-centered monetary regime”
and confirms that providing citizens a basic income financed by seigniorage
is sustainable under the citizen-centered regime. 

Harry

Re: [Vo]: Orbo power packs

All I want is a clock that I never need to wind.
At this stage I think Steorn is overreaching by trying to make and sell a
self-charging cell phone.

Harry

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

> It appears from the Steorn video description pointed to by Jones below
> that the the "power packs" behave as an unusual capacitor.  The device
> appears to have separate charge and discharge modes.  In charge mode the
> capacitor-like "power-packs" are "charged" from a high voltage source (2x9V
> battery with series 1Mohm resistor).  While charging, the capacitance
> appears to be very low, call it Cc, and it doesn't take much Coulombic
> charge (not many electrons) to reach a voltage of, say 5V.  Then the
> capacitor-like "power pack" is switched to a load.  In discharge, the
> capacitance, Cd, appears to be much higher than Cc, allowing more Coulombic
> charge (more electrons) to be taken out before the device reaches its
> minimum discharge voltage.  This is a quite unusual [classically impossible
> over-unity] device, which still may be related to an electret.  It appears
> that the capacitor-like "power pack" elements are of "jelly roll"
> construction due to their cylindrical form factor.
>
> If the "power pack" devices truly work in this fashion, I can easily see
> how over-unity energy is delivered.
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> Prototypes have been shown. Not sure of current status as there were
>> legal disputes involved. Eye witnesses under NDA have seen it producing
>> electrical power. There is a chance that “something like this” is
>> involved in the Steorn device (to the extent that either device actually
>> works over an extended period) but I doubt it - since Steorn doesn’t seem
>> to work, firstly - and secondly doesn’t have a magnetic field. Here is
>> an update:
>>
>>
>> *http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/02/new-video-reveals-ocube-components-describes-problems/*
>> 
>>
>>
>

[Vo]:Physicists create first photonic Maxwell's demon

Phys.org)—Maxwell's demon, a hypothetical being that appears to violate the
second law of thermodynamics, has been widely studied since it was first
proposed in 1867 by James Clerk Maxwell. But most of these studies have
been theoretical, with only a handful of experiments having actually
realized Maxwell's demon.

Now in a new paper, physicists have reported what they believe is the first
photonic implementation of Maxwell's demon, by showing that measurements
made on two light beams can be used to create an energy imbalance between
the beams, from which work can be extracted. One of the interesting things
about this experiment is that the extracted work can then be used to charge
a battery, providing direct evidence of the "demon's" activity.

Read more at

http://phys.org/news/2016-02-physicists-photonic-maxwell-demon.html

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
>
>> See the licensing system for different trades, which is close to medieval
>> rules for trade.
>>
>
> Not just close; they are the same in many instances, for good reason.
> People in medieval times were not fools. In another example, many building
> codes in Pennsylvania are the same today as they were in 1790.
>
>
> I understand that there need to be requirements for certain services. The
>> question is who is capable of judging - I for sure know government is
>> totally incapable.
>>
>
> All of these standards are set by industry, not by government. The
> government enforces standards which are set by organizations such as the
> ASME. Many laws simply reference ASME publications saying that products
> "will meet these standards." So this statement makes no sense. It is a
> tautology:
>
>

This seems like an appropriate moment to bring up an important and
neglected men's issue. In the US, men comprise  93% of workplace deaths. (I
think it is even higher if you include suicides triggered by work related
problems). Why is this considered socially acceptable? When I ask the
question I am not calling for more women to endure jobs where they are more
likely die. Evidently society regards men's lives as less valuable then
women's lives. I will argue that this is a case of systematic sexism
towards men.

Not so long it was common for women to die during child birth. However, it
was decided that it was socially unacceptable for women to endure such
risks so money and time was invested on reducing fatalities. Before this
change of attitude, I suspect most people were resigned to accept the rate
fatalities as part of the natural order or an expression of God's will. I
think most people have similar attitude regarding work related deaths among
men. Arguments about evolution
are usually trotted out to justify the difference. The argument is men
evolved to take such risk takers and women evolved to avoid such risks so
it is part of the natural order that men should die at such a high rate.
But this is a naturalistic fallacy. It would be like saying that since
pregnancy evolved to be dangerous nothing should be done to reduce the
risk. In the case of male work related deaths a great deal can and should
be done. For starters a lot more money should be spent on the enforcement
of workplace standards. Are men worth it? Hell yeah!

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 4:34 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> This seems like an appropriate moment to bring up an important and
>> neglected men's issue. In the US, men comprise  93% of workplace deaths.
>>
>
> I do not think this has anything to do with a bias against men. It is a
> bias against women working in certain industries.
>

You have provided the usual feminist opinion and ignored my argument.



> The two most dangerous jobs in the U.S. are working on fishing boats, and
> working as a nighttime gas station or convenience store cashier. Other
> dangerous jobs include things like working in mines, heavy industry,
> slaughterhouses, building trades and so on. People I know who have been in
> building trades for decades all have scars to show for it, and most of them
> have seen people maimed or killed. Women seldom work on fishing boats, or
> in heavy industry, mining etc.
>
>
It takes a very strong person to work on a fishing boat. Women on average
> are somewhat less strong than men so you would not expect to see as many
> women on fishing boats even if there were no bias and even if it were not
> awkward for them to be crammed into small boats for weeks.
>
>

> Modern industry is nowhere near as dangerous as it used to be. In the
> 1930s, my father was a fireman in the merchant marine, shipping out of New
> York to South America. He said there was not one voyage where he did not
> see someone at the docks killed or maimed. He himself was maimed after 6
> years, nearly losing his life. His arm was crushed. It kept him out of
> combat in WWII, so I guess in a sense it saved his life. The ship he was on
> is now at the bottom of the Atlantic, sunk by a German U Boat. He would
> have gone down with it.
>
>
Thank you for providing the anecdotal evidence that men actually do
suffer. Is women's suffering some how more important?

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

I am not responding until you go back address the argument I made defending
my assertion that it is sexism against men.
All you have done is attack my assertion.

Harry



On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
> I do not think this has anything to do with a bias against men. It is a
>>> bias against women working in certain industries.
>>>
>>
>> You have provided the usual feminist opinion and ignored my argument.
>>
>
> That's silly. Everyone knows that it would be impractical for women to
> work on most small fishing boats. For that matter, most men are incapable
> of it. I would be killed in about 5 minutes at sea on a small boat. You
> have to grow up doing it. My late father grew up with boats and ships in
> Freeport Long Island and Bermuda, and he knew dozens of ways to kill
> yourself or drown. Without that kind of background you are a dead duck in a
> small boat. If you have ever been on a small boat in a rough sea you will
> know what I mean.
>
> What we need to do is abolish fishing. It is a dance with death. It will
> never be safe. I mean abolish doing it by people. Only robots should do it.
> Better yet, grow fish in fish farms.
>
> We need to gradually automate all dangerous jobs, including jobs in
> construction.
>
> This has nothing to do with being a man or woman *per se*. It has to do
> with having years of experience doing tough, dangerous jobs. In Japan,
> women do a lot of the farming and fishing, especially diving in the Inland
> Sea. I have seen 70-year-old women handle heavy equipment, chains saws,
> small ferry boats, tractors and so on, and do many things that would kill
> you in no time if you tried to do them.
>
> The most dangerous thing that most of us do is drive cars. Self driving
> cars should greatly reduce accidents. On Saturday, on Route 78 in
> Pennsylvania there was a terrible multiple car accident, with 64 vehicles,
> 3 people killed and 74 injured. It was caused by whiteout conditions. I
> think self driving cars would have avoided this, because they would "see"
> through the snow with their radar (I hope). See:
>
>
> http://www.nj.com/somerset/index.ssf/2016/02/nj_woman_killed_73_injured_in_major_pileup_in_pa.html
>
>
>
>> Thank you for providing the anecdotal evidence that men actually do
>> suffer. Is women's suffering some how more important?
>>
>
> Your statements are preposterous. No one wants men or women to suffer. We
> have made tremendous progress in reducing industrial accidents. Thanks to
> OSHA, common sense, and automation.
>
> No one in the industry wants people to suffer or have accidents. Even in
> 1936 it was bad for business. It was expensive for industry even then. My
> father got several years off and a paid college education because his arm
> was mangled on the ship. He got Workmen's Compensation, which he used to go
> to school.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

John,

Recently it occurred to me that Google Ngram could be used gauge societal
attitudes about men and women over time.   This Google Ngram graphs the
usage of the words "feminist", "feminine" and "masculine" from 1700 to 2008
as they are used in English books.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=feminism%2Cfeminine%2Cmasculine_start=1700_end=2008=15=3=_url=t1%3B%2Cfeminism%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cfeminine%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cmasculine%3B%2Cc0

Notice the cross over around 1836 for "feminine" and "masculine" and how
the usage of "feminist" begins to rise sharply around 1970.

Harry

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 7:47 PM, John Berry  wrote:

> The point that I believe Harry and I am making is not that women have
> always had safer jobs than men.
>
> But rather that in modern western feminist society this is the case.
>
> There are just as many men battered by women apparently.
> And did you even know that men being raped by women actually happens
> despite obvious challenges, the some stats sow the incidences might be far
> closer to parity that we could conceive.
>
> Of course more men are raped, by men in prison.
> And many prisoners are not guilty, or are not being punished in an
> even-handed manner.
>
> Pendulums can swing too far sometimes in the other direction.
>
> But I must just be a stupid man, because that's funny as the Simpsons,
> Family Guy, Beer commercials, sitcoms and other media points out.
>
> A woman can slap a man and it is seen as ok, can a man slap a woman?
>
> There is an idea that sexism is only discrimination against women, and
> that's the problem.
>
> Same is true of racism, it isn't always white people being the
> perpetrators and black (brown, yellow) people are not always the victims.
> Though the US still has a bg problem with racist white cops and a
> biased 'injustice' system, but these things are not all one way.
>
> And inequality is inequality no matter which way it is pointed.
>
> John
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> John Berry  wrote:
>>
>> I think if as many women were killed at jobs, especially if it was the
>>> same but reverse of the actual m/f ratio, there would have long ago been a
>>> massive push to make these jobs safer.
>>>
>>
>> There *has been* a massive push to make *all* jobs safer! Read history,
>> for goodness sake. Read about mining. Look at ships, heavy equipment,
>> factories, farming. Injuries and fatalities are far rarer than they used to
>> be.
>>
>> Women working in 19th century factories died at a higher rate than men do
>> nowadays. For that matter, children working in factories and mines were
>> killed so often that some British mines had a rubber-stamp form to fill in
>> the names and pay off the parents. A rubber-stamp!
>>
>> Look up "19th century child labor" images on Google, and you will see
>> things like this of both boys and girls doing dangerous heavy labor in
>> mines and elsewhere:
>>
>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Childlabourcoal.jpg
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_childhood#/media/File:Coaltub.png
>>
>> Obviously, in Europe and the U.S. it was traditional for men to do
>> dangerous jobs. The tradition lives on because, as I said, you have to grow
>> up doing these things or you are likely to be killed. No one can just walk
>> up and start working in a farm or on construction. You will cut your arm
>> off with a power tool.
>>
>> In countries where women traditionally did some kinds of dangerous work
>> in some industries, such as Japan, the fatality rate was worse than men.
>>
>> Even today, women in U.S. industry suffer a great deal, although they are
>> no longer in as much danger of being killed. In Georgia and South Carolina,
>> most chicken processing plants are staffed mainly by women. Their lives are
>> not at risk, but they suffer horribly from repetitive stress syndrome. They
>> are poor because these jobs don't pay a living wage. Many are illegal
>> immigrants. So nothing is done about this problem. Also, Members of
>> Congress and state government elected officials are on record saying that
>> repetitive stress syndrome does not exist, and these women are malingering
>> and trying to get free money. I expect such elected officials have never
>> worked a day in their life at any manual job in a factory, farm or kitchen.
>> I wish I could subject them to a month working in these places -- or I wish
>> I could subject their wives and daughters to that. You would see new laws
>> and improvements overnight!
>>
>> Again, it will be a better world when robots do that sort of work. The
>> only problem is that people will go from having inadequate jobs that do not
>> pay a living wage to having no jobs at all.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

You are using the naturalistic fallacy. It is like saying that because
child birth evolved to be risky, we shouldn't intervene with science, but I
already said this.


harry

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am not responding until you go back address the argument I made
>> defending my assertion that it is sexism against men.
>>
>
> I pointed out that related phenomena -- such as body weight and male
> aggressiveness -- are observed in chimpanzees and other primates. So what
> you are talking about is at least 13 million years. That predates feminism
> and "sexism against men" by a considerable margin. It predates men, for
> that matter.
>
> This is called human nature. "Primate nature" to be more scientifically
> accurate. Ascribing it to trendy modern ideas is preposterous.
>
>
> All you have done is attack my assertion.
>>
>
> All I have done is point out well know facts from anthropology, history,
> and animal behavior.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 10:21 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You are using the naturalistic fallacy. It is like saying that because
>> child birth evolved to be risky, we shouldn't intervene with science . . .
>>
>
> I never said anything REMOTELY like that! That is absurd. I listed the
> reasons why some male occupations tend to be more dangerous than female
> occupations, at least in Europe and the U.S. (But not in India, for
> example, where elderly women weed the median in highways with cars whizzing
> by a meter away at 60 mph.)
>
>
Do you have statistics on male and females in India? Citing one example of
a woman working in a dangerous environment is just a rhetorical tactic to
take attention away from men's suffering.




> The reasons go back to history, tradition, the physical differences and
> body strength difference between men and women. They go back to what people
> are trained to do, and grow up doing. No one can just hop onto a small
> fishing boat and survive. You have to do that for years while growing up.
> Traditionally in Europe, only men did that. A women who has never done that
> -- or you or I having never done that -- is likely to be drowned the first
> day out.
>
>
 So it is a combination of "tradition" and "nature".  One is sexist and
the other is a naturalistic fallacy that men should be expected to take
greater risks with their lives just for money.





> There are also natural reasons basic to our primate nature, going back at
> least 13 million years. Every portrayal of warriors in ever culture on
> record always shows men. You can't just erase our biology. This did not
> begin in 1970 with the word "feminist." This is how most human societies
> have worked for millions of years.
>

I never said anything about erasing biology. I suspect men will always be
more likely to place themselves in dangers way but to place men at greater
harm then women simply for the sake of money is unjust. Money is a cultural
artifact it is not a big cat. There is nothing natural about risking ones
life money and men should have the freedom to say "no" to such risk taking.
Similarly the decision to have a baby is more than an evolutionary strategy
for reproducing a species. I am sure "family planning" began in prehistory
and that we stopped reproducing for the sake of reproducing a long time ago.



>
> My father grew up knowing how to handle small motor craft and sailboats,
> and how to fire up a triple expansion steam engine, like the one on the
> Titanic. Firing up was a tricky and dangerous thing to do! The sailors had
> to climb a scaffold and lubricate those engines while they were in motion,
> which was another dance with death. There will never be another generation
> of young people, men or women, who are capable of doing that. It is a lost
> art. There may be a few people who can do that but we will never again see
> thousands of them, enough to man all the freighters and troop transport
> ships of WWII. You can't just pick up such skills overnight. For that
> matter there will never be another generation of people who can write
> assembly language or Pascal code the way I can. Every generation masters
> one technology and loses another.
> 
> I
> t happens that for all of history down to the present day, men have always
> taken the lead in mastering the most dangerous occupations. One obvious
> reason is that such jobs payed better.
>
>
>

I am not judging your father's choices. He did what he thought was right
for him and his family at the time. However, today's generation of men and
boys are faced with vastly different set of cultural circumstances and
technological challenges.
Do you have any boys?





> Women also did incredibly dangerous things by our standards, not long ago.
> I mentioned the photo of the 6-foot-tall Japanese fishing woman working a
> windlass in 1949. I said "she was running as many risks as any male
> fisherman." If you don't see that, look carefully at the photo and think
> about what she is doing:
>
> 
> https://library.osu.edu/projects/bennett-in-japan/images/full/13/12.jpg
>
> The caption says: "The young woman on the left was nearly six feet tall!
> The elderly woman on the right is calling the chant to maintain the rhythm
> of movement."
>

There are 4 to 8 people turning the windlass, hauling a fishing boat out of
> the surf onto the sand. They are walking barefoot in the sand pushing heavy
> logs (handles). Think of what might happen if one or two of these people
> slips in the sand or accidentally lets go of a handle, or if a wave jerks
> the fishing boat back into the surf. The handles may whi

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

The media frames almost every worrying social measure in terms of people,
women or children.
Rarely do you hear the data just for men or boys. Two generation of
journalists have
lectured on how to think about society by feminist academia.

For example you hear about the glass ceiling but there is also glass floor
in the cellar. You will find more homeless men down there than women. Boys
and girls commit suicide at roughly equal rates as children but the rate
begins to diverge in the teen years. The average suicide rate for men is 3
to 4 times that of women, and it increases with age. I think it is at least
10 times higher for men over age 80. But of course these inequalities
reveal nothing significant about the status of men in society. And even if
they did, we first need to get more women into math.

Harry

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 10:58 PM, Jed Rothwell 
wrote:

> John Berry  wrote:
>
>
>> Rather the fact that men have continued to be seen as more disposable is
>> in large part because of the focus of the rights women have, with a
>> simultaneous subjugation of men.
>>
>
> I see no sign of that in Japan or the U.S. On the contrary, in both
> countries more money is spent on medical problems that primarily affect
> men. Heart attacks in men are more often treated with intense care; women
> are told to go home. Traditionally, a Japanese family would feed and care
> for a boy more than a girl if they had to choose. In the 1930s they were
> sometimes forced to sell their daughters into sexual slavery. They would
> not do anything so harsh to a son. The law did not allow it, as far as I
> know. My 80-year-old widowed mother-in-law used to climb up on a steep roof
> to fix the tiles because, she said, "I wouldn't want my son to do such a
> dangerous thing."
>
> (Mind you, that drove my brother-in-law crazy. "For crying out loud DON'T
> DO THAT mom!!!" That was typical of the self abnegation of 20th century
> Japanese women. Passive-aggressive behavior was not invented by Jewish
> mamas.)
>
> Needless to say, there is zero sign that men are being subjugated in
> Japan. I don't see any sign of it in the U.S. either. It sounds like
> someone's overwrought imagination, or some nitwit who thinks taking out the
> garbage once in a while is being oppressed. Or like one of these Christian
> fundamentalists who thinks *he* is being oppressed because some guy wants
> to marry some other guy in another part of town.
>
> There is plenty of feminism these days in both counties.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

2016-02-16 Thread H LV

A basic income will be nice for women because it will give them more
options, but it will have a profound effect on the male psyche. A basic
income for men will affirm that a man's life is just as valuable as a
woman's life. This will foster healthier relationships between men and
women.

harry

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> What a gang of pessimists!
>
> Yes, there will be well paid jobs in the future. However, that is not the
> immediate problem. We need to spread the resources so everybody is given a
> fair chance to a life with no lack of the essentials.
> It is only one way to do so. To make sure people less fortunate will
> receive there benefit with a feeling of entitlement. Us old guys with
> another upbringing will have a hard time accepting it. It still is required.
> Then we need to find a reward system for those that take responsibility
> and initiative to move our society forward. I think that will fall into
> place more or less by default once we accept this new reality and our
> attitude has changed.
>
> Seen away from meteor hits and other catastrophes - I am convinced we will
> move toward a better society. Perfect is still far away.
>
> The debate about feminism I refrain to comment on. I know on Venus things
> are different but as I never been there I cannot figure the difference.:)
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Russ George 
> wrote:
>
>> But surely they cannot replace Vanna White
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 16, 2016 6:59 AM
>> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank Znidarsic  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> The last good paying jobs remain in healthcare.  How long will that hold
>> up?
>>
>>
>>
>> Not long. When computers can drive cars better than people, and when they
>> can win at Jeopardy better than the world's experts, it is only a matter of
>> time before they take all remaining manual labor jobs.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent Robots

2016-02-17 Thread H LV

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Chris Zell  wrote:

>
> It’s too bad Startrek isn’t around anymore because it got people to think
> about these future challenges.
>
>
>


Star Trek "Money doesn't exist in the 24th Century"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wqSDupcxY

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent Robots

2016-02-17 Thread H LV

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 12:26 AM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Chris Zell <chrisz...@wetmtv.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> It’s too bad Startrek isn’t around anymore because it got people to think
>> about these future challenges.
>>
>>
>>
>
> 
> Star Trek "Money doesn't exist in the 24th Century"
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wqSDupcxY
>
> Harry
>
>
The great transformation is underway now. It is not going to happen in the
future. It is happening now.

More Star Trek clips

Star trek Economy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQYbKT_rMg

Samuel Clemens in the 24th century
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7mmjxkL5X0

Harry

Re: [Vo]:the same trend in LENR info. & about its sacred cows

2016-02-18 Thread H LV

Some of the heat inside the Earth is left over from its formation. The
remaining heat is thought to be generated by radioactive decay, however, I
remember reading somewhere that the actual particle flux due to radioactive
decay is less than what is required. I am not sure if this discrepancy has
been explained yet.

Harry

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 1:48 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Unless science understands how LENR produces heat inside planets, they
> will be faced with mounting numbers of unsolvable cosmological conundrums.
>
> Scientists shocked to find Mercury has liquid metal core and a magnetic
> field like Earth
> MAY 13, 2015 BY DAN TAYLOR
>
> Scientists shocked to find Mercury has liquid metal core and a magnetic
> field like Earth
>
> NASA's MESSENGER spacecraft smashed into the planet's surface on April 30
> after four years in orbit, but not before sending back some amazing data.
>
> Scientists were floored recently after getting back data from NASA’s
> MESSENGER space probe that showed that Mercury has a core filled with
> sloshing liquid metal, much like Earth — and they’re scratching their heads
> as to how that’s possible.
>
> Mercury had been thought to be too small to have a liquid core, as
> scientists believed the metal would have cooled relatively quickly in its
> history, but the MESSENGER space probe sent back data before slamming into
> the planet on April 30 that indicated that yes, its core still contains
> molten metal, and that metal is creating a magnetic field similar to that
> of Earth, according to a Space.com report.
>
> It’s nowhere near as powerful — scientists estimate that it is 100 times
> weaker than Earth’s. But the findings still surprised scientists who
> thought they would find a solid rock core much like the other rocky planets
> in our solar system. The findings shed new light on the evolution of
> Mercury, the closest planet to the sun and the smallest planet in the solar
> system, and will force scientists to rethink how it developed.
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> It has proven for the first time that the deepest part of the lunar
>> mantle is soft, based upon the agreement between observation results and
>> the theoretical calculations.
>> The research team also clarified that heat is efficiently generated by
>> the tides in the soft part, deepest in the mantle.
>>
>> In general, a part of the energy stored inside a celestial body by tidal
>> forces (caused by being pushed and pulled by its partner, in this case
>> Earth, as it orbits) is changed to heat.
>> The heat generation depends on the softness of the interior.
>>
>> Whereas previous research also suggests that some part of the energy
>> inside the moon due to the tidal forces is changed to heat, the present
>> research indicates that this type of energy conversion does not uniformly
>> occur in the entire moon, but only intensively in a soft layer.
>> The research team believes that the soft layer is now warming the core of
>> the moon as the core seems to be wrapped by the layer, which is located in
>> the deepest part of the mantle, and which efficiently generates heat.
>>
>> They also expect that a soft layer like this may efficiently have warmed
>> the core in the past as well.
>>
>>
>> Read more:
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2719809/Is-moon-s-core-MOLTEN-Centre-satellite-wrapped-layer-soft-rock-claim-scientists.html#ixzz40SvO0v6m
>>
>>
>> The moon's core could well be heated by cold fusion. The assumptions made
>> about the moons molten core sound far fetched. A soft layer would not has
>> formed when the moon cooled. All less dense stuff would have risen upward
>> during the cooling process.
>>
>> Without cold fusion science does not make sense.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Peter Gluck 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Good surprises are necessary.
>>>
>>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/02/feb-17-2016-lenr-sacred-cow-candidates.html
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Peter
>>> --
>>> Dr. Peter Gluck
>>> Cluj, Romania
>>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

2016-02-18 Thread H LV

from

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/welfare/2016/02/how-i-learnt-stop-worrying-and-love-basic-income

How I learnt to stop worrying and love Basic Income

John McDonnell's decision to consider moving to the benefit is the right
one, says Jonathan Reynolds.

The
first time Basic Income was pitched to me I have to admit I thought it
sounded completely unrealistic. An unconditional payment to each
individual, to support their full lives, whether working, studying, caring
or being cared for? I remember sitting in Stalybridge Labour Club with a
beer after a meeting, when my friend Gordon introduced me to the concept.
“How else,” asked Gordon, “will we ensure sufficient support for people as
they have to retrain throughout their working lives - not just for several
different jobs, but for several different careers?”.

Gordon’s question is the right one, and it stuck with me. My outlook on
politics is fundamentally shaped by my experience of growing up in the
North East in the 1980s. The closure of entire industries, like coal and
shipbuilding, had dramatic and fundamental consequences for the areas built
around them. The same is true of the tragic situation in the steel industry
today. I still believe the Thatcher Government’s abject response to
deindustrialisation lies at the heart of many of the problems the UK faces
today, such as low skills, worklessness, poor public health and so on. The
UK spent a fraction of what a country like Sweden spent on education and
retraining as traditional industries declined, and we have suffered the
consequences.

But what should the left’s response be to this sort of seismic economic
change? The traditional response, calling for the nationalisation of
failing industries, doesn’t solve the problem. Running an industry at a
loss because it is subsidised by the taxpayer is not a long-term answer.
Globalisation means it was inevitable that the UK would have to exit some
traditional industries – I wouldn’t fancy bringing back the cotton mills to
Stalybridge, for instance – and education and retraining to take part in
new economic opportunities is the only solution. But as technology and the
growth of the MINT countries brings ever more economic disruption, as well
as opportunity, we must have a mechanism to provide people with both
security and a platform from which to be able to access these new
opportunities. Basic Income would do just that. This is the first of my
three justifications for backing it – as a policy to cope with inevitable
but fundamental economic change.

The second justification concerns our existing welfare state. I have
always been taken aback by the bewildering complexity of our welfare
system. The Child Poverty Action Group Benefits Handbook, which like many
MPs I use to help constituents, is bigger than my copy of the Bible. The
modern evolution of the welfare state – conditionality, sanctions, and
adults being forced to fill in job search diaries as if they were in
primary school – I find unconscionable. I don’t deny there are a small
group of people who do need a kick up the arse. There are also people who
definitely need to access some support to get back into work, especially
with numeracy and literacy. But why should this be punitive? A system
which sanctions war veterans for selling poppies, or a person for attending
job interview, is both ridiculous and counter-productive. And that’s
before we consider the fundamental problem of our current benefits system –
how to taper off benefits when someone does return to work to ensure there
is an incentive to work and not a “benefits trap”.

The Government’s answer is universal credit. Having been one of the
pathfinder areas for universal credit, I’m afraid they will be
disappointed. Thanks to George Osborne, universal credit will not now offer
the kind of work incentives it was hoped it would, but the real problem is
that it still cannot cope with the real nature of people’s working lives.
There is not, as much as some Tory MPs would claim there is, a big group of
people who never work and then a larger group who pay their taxes to
support these people. Instead, many people move frequently into and out of
work, because the work they can get is short-term, or insecure, or because
the other responsibilities in their lives cause complications. The benefits
system simply cannot cope with these people, and nothing I have seen
suggests universal credit will be a solution to that. As an example, not
only is universal credit designed to be paid four weeks after a claim is
made (on the huge assumption that everyone is paid monthly in arrears and
so will have four weeks wages to tide them over), if a claim for universal
credit is made too early, and the claimant receives their final pay packet
after lodging the claim, they can wait as much as 11 weeks before receiving
a penny. It is not surprise that foodbanks are booming. There are also
huge questions regarding conditionality as the nature of

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent Robots??

2016-02-18 Thread H LV

I agree that future technology is not going to save us. We have to rectify
the injustices that exist now.

Kirk reading the constitution.
 "...These words... must apply to everyone or they mean nothing."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsRo-m9muFE


Harry



On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Chris Zell  wrote:

> My God,  military/prison robot applications signal a world rushing
> headlong into a Terminator/Skynet situation.   Ray Kurzweil seems to think
> an Age Of Spiritual Machines awaits us but that looks as naïve as every
> other
>
> hope that technology would save us from war and oppression.   And who’s
> going to be liable for mistakes within the well-developed legal
> boiler-plate for software presently – that basically says, ‘you can’t sue
> us if it doesn’t really work’.
>
>
>
> At one time, there were jokes made about ‘what if cars ran about as well
> as some operating systems’ ( turn off your car and reboot it).  Now, that’s
> exactly where we seem to be headed.
>
>
>
> Automated phone response systems might just as well be run by an autistic
> person with a low IQ.  Websites leave out critical specifics or fail to
> deal with emergencies – exactly what AI should be capable of handling and
> isn’t.
>
> E-mail is a wonderful thing (as here) but customer service types can often
> freely ignore pleas for help without consequence ( my experience).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

2016-02-19 Thread H LV

On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 3:18 AM, Alain Sepeda 
wrote:

>
>
> the good way to judge policy is not through morality, but through
> incentive network.
>
>
>>
A similar judgement can be made about slavery: it is bad for the economy
because it is inefficient.
The argument sounds good, but slave owners are more concerned about their
personal loss of status
in the new order. On the other hand they don't want to be viewed as
selfish, so they make arguments
about the moral inferiority of black people.

Making sure basic income remains low enough to incentivise paid work is
about reassuring the rich they can still
have broad social control over those on the basic income. However, the rich
do not want to be viewed as selfish, so
paid work must be portrayed as morally superior to any other
notion
 of work.

(For example being in school is not considered work. It
 is only considered preparation for work. No wonder why
so many young people hate school.)

However, basic
income 
should be high enough so that paid work does not need to be incentivized by
money. Paid work
occurs in the marketplace according the values of the marketplace. A desire
to work in the marketplace should
be incentive enough. The extra income one receives is just a pleasant side
effect of working in the marketplace.
It should not be the rai·son d'ê·tre
for 
participati
on
in the marketplace.

Harry

Harry

Re: [Vo]:the expected LENR Surprise Rossi's long time test over!Re:

This report probably involves an audit as well.

Harry

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Jed Rothwell 
wrote:

> I think this report is odd because --
>
> 1. As I said before, it should not take a year to test the machine. Any
> HVAC engineer can confirm it is producing heat in a few hours. Perhaps it
> takes a year to determine reliability, but as I said before, reliability is
> not an issue with a first-generation prototype machine. It is bound to be
> unreliable.
>
> 2. If someone was testing a machine for a whole year, they would be
> writing the report during that time and it would be ready as soon as the
> test ends. I do not see why it would take a month. Perhaps I am missing
> something. Perhaps I am thinking of how long it takes to prepare a manual
> for a new commercial product. (The manual better be ready when production
> begins, or you should fire your tech writer.)
>
> The Lugano report took a long time to write. As I recall they did not
> finish writing it until long after the test ended. That was symptomatic of
> their problems. I mean that the test was poorly done, and the report was
> poorly written, and both took far too long.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:the expected LENR Surprise Rossi's long time test over!Re:

BTW, last December Rossi said on his blog that he was selling heat to the
customer. For some reason this statement didn't seem to raise any eyebrows.
It must mean the customer was not spending any money on energy to run the
reactor and that Rossi could potentially sell the heat at a loss to keep
the customer satisfied.

Harry

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 10:52 AM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This report probably involves an audit as well.
>
> Harry
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think this report is odd because --
>>
>> 1. As I said before, it should not take a year to test the machine. Any
>> HVAC engineer can confirm it is producing heat in a few hours. Perhaps it
>> takes a year to determine reliability, but as I said before, reliability is
>> not an issue with a first-generation prototype machine. It is bound to be
>> unreliable.
>>
>> 2. If someone was testing a machine for a whole year, they would be
>> writing the report during that time and it would be ready as soon as the
>> test ends. I do not see why it would take a month. Perhaps I am missing
>> something. Perhaps I am thinking of how long it takes to prepare a manual
>> for a new commercial product. (The manual better be ready when production
>> begins, or you should fire your tech writer.)
>>
>> The Lugano report took a long time to write. As I recall they did not
>> finish writing it until long after the test ended. That was symptomatic of
>> their problems. I mean that the test was poorly done, and the report was
>> poorly written, and both took far too long.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>

[Vo]:Heat and electricity

A typical goal of energy conversion is to convert heat into electricity and
to do it as efficiently as possible. However, if the goal is to convert
electricity into heat the issue of efficiency also arises.


An LED is efficient at converting electricity into light but it is
inefficient at converting electricity in to heat. So if you wanted heat and
only had an LED how would you make it more efficient at producing heat?

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

In my question I said if you only had an LED. That implies a resistor is
not available.

Whether or not something is valued as a tool depends on the situation and
the user. A blind man will not value an LED as a tool for illuminating a
braille book.

Harry

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> An LED is efficient at converting electricity into light but it is
>> inefficient at converting electricity in to heat. So if you wanted heat and
>> only had an LED how would you make it more efficient at producing heat?
>>
>
> You wouldn't! Use a resistor. It converts 100% of the electricity into
> heat. Nothing can be more efficient than that.
>
> Perhaps I misunderstand the question, but this seems like asking how to
> use hammer in place of screwdriver. It is a bad idea. Although after
> stripping several wood screws while assembling a shelf, my father once
> picked up a hammer and pounded them down, saying "this is what we call a
> Chicago screw driver."
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 3:58 PM, Eric Walker <eric.wal...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 1:30 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>  In my question I said if you only had an LED. That implies a resistor is
>> not available.
>>
>
> One thought is to surround the LED by a material that emits a blackbody
> spectrum. That 10 W that goes to light the LED will be perfectly converted
> to the blackbody spectrum.
>
>
I thought of painting the LED black  which is a crude way of altering the
spectrum.



> There's a remaining ambiguity about what "heat" means. It's often used
> synonymously with "energy." But energy can be radiated or transmitted with
> a nonthermal spectrum, while one expects heat to have a thermal spectrum.
>
>
There might be more sophisticated ways of altering the spectrum through
the application of magnetic fields and/or by varying the electrical input.
Maybe the ambient temperature could have an effect as well.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In my question I said if you only had an LED. That implies a resistor is
>> not available.
>>
>
> Well, in that case, you simply prevent any light from leaving the LED.
> Cover it with something. Then put it in a box with a very sensitive light
> meter to conform that nothing is escaping from it.
>
> You can generate heat from a mechanical device such a wind-up toy with
> similar methods. That is a classic 19th century experiment.
>
> I don't see how this would arise in the real world, but perhaps it might.
> Similar problems arose with the development of silicon integrated circuits.
> Silicon is not a good choice of materials for many cell components such as
> resistors. It had to be used, because it is a semiconductor, but it did not
> lend itself to that purpose.
>
> - Jed
>
>
Suppose Rossi's Ecat is an inefficient heater, which he made more
efficient by employing electrical, magnetic and temperature tricks.
It still might be remarkable if it involves nuclear activity of some sort.

Harry

[Vo]:Researcher illegally shares millions of science papers free online to spread knowledge

2016-02-14 Thread H LV


Researcher illegally shares millions of science papers free online to
spread knowledge

A researcher in Russia has made more than 48 million journal articles -
almost every single peer-reviewed paper every published - freely available
online. And she's now refusing to shut the site down, despite a court
injunction and a lawsuit from Elsevier, one of the world's biggest
publishers.

http://www.sciencealert.com/this-woman-has-illegally-uploaded-millions-of-journal-articles-in-an-attempt-to-open-up-science

Harry

[Vo]:OT: Restorative Justice

Three minute video explaining the difference between Restorative
Justice and Criminal Justice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE8TDzlR2tg

Some key points:

Restorative justice represents a paradigm change from thinking about
justice as a mechanism for social control to thinking about justice as
a mechanism for social engagement.

In a criminal justice process the questions that get asked are: what
happened? who did it? what do they deserve?

In a restorative justice process the questions that get asked are:
what happened?
whose obligations are these? what do we need to do to right the wrongs?

Injustice creates social and emotional harms to people and
relationships, and so restorative justice is about repairing the harm
done.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:New paper from Jiang in Chinese

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 9:23 AM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: H LV
>
>> The 'self-sustaining' phase that follows represents the release of energy 
>> which was being stored while the power was on.
>
> Harry - If you are talking about Fig2 - the May run, that conclusion is not 
> supported by the facts, since --- when the power was turned off - the heat 
> first increased for hours, which cannot easily happen from a stored source, 
> and then continued on for ~60 more hours at a significant rate - without the 
> slightest reduction. (according to the chart).
>
>
> OTOH - it was brain-dead for the Jiang team to then try to restart the heater 
> at that point - if the experimenters knew the unpowered gain was continuing. 
> They should have let the gain subside first before restarting.
>
>
> By not letting the gain subside, they tacitly could be admitting that it was 
> a relic of measurement, instead of reliable data.

Maybe. The problem is they don't explain why they restarted it.
Perhaps they were anxious to repeat the  'excess heat' phase.

You seem to approach scientific 'wrong doing' according to the
principles and procedures of criminal justice. There is another
approach
to approach to 'wrong doing' known as restorative justice.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's tiny 100W quarks

Maybe he means the E-Cat X will will be sold with an electrical
voltage like a battery.

Harry

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 2:18 PM, David Roberson  wrote:
> I just read Rossi's answer to a question where he is asked if a quark can be
> built that only puts out electricity with no heat.  Frank Acland asked the
> question and Rossi responded yes with his f9 key active.  The answer was
> fairly clear to me and extremely difficult to believe!  I hope his response
> was due to a missunderstanding of what was asked.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Axil Axil 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2016 1:35 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's tiny 100W quarks
>
> What Rossi wants to do is produce the most basic LENR module that is
> possible and do it as efficiently as possible using economies of scale.
> It will be up to the systems integrator to design the backplane and heat
> transfer system to meet the spec that is required.
> A factory steam boiler, a railroad locomotive, a ship engine, a steel blast
> furnace, a cement plant, or a jet engine will all use the Quark as the basic
> module. How the Quark is put together it its thousands will be the
> responsibility of the systems developer.
> The Quark will be the lowest common denominator of all LENR based systems.
> How it is configured to produce heat and/or light, and/or electricity are
> defined by how it is configured.
> For example, an existing 200 megawatt pebble bed reactor might be configured
> by encasing a single Quark inside a carbon ball and placing that ball inside
> an existing pebble bed reactor. It is up to the Chinese reactor designer to
> test each ball for status and replace it when its operational life is over
> as it goes through its daily inspection cycle.
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:20 PM, David Roberson  wrote:
>>
>> That is what I recall.   Perhaps it is time to recheck this fact within
>> his blog.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Axil Axil 
>> To: vortex-l 
>> Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2016 12:50 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's tiny 100W quarks
>>
>> Was it stated somewhere that the quark produces little or no heat?
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:34 PM, David Roberson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I read his postings and remain quite skeptical.  I especially find it
>>> difficult to believe that the output of one of these devices can be entirely
>>> electrical with no residual heat.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: a.ashfield 
>>> To: vortex-l 
>>> Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2016 11:19 am
>>> Subject: [Vo]:Rossi's tiny 100W quarks
>>>
>>> Rossi has made several comments about a tiny version of the E-Cat X. He
>>> says he is thinking of using it as a basic module for larger units. How
>>> would he control it? Unless it is much more stable in the smaller size
>>> the cost of the control system would be a disadvantage.
>>> Interesting that it can be made that small though, There are many
>>> portable devices that could be powered by it.
>>>
>>> See E-CatWorld
>>>
>>> http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/02/29/rossi-small-e-cat-prototype-units-are-100-w-called-quarks/
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:New paper from Jiang in Chinese

Wow! How many languages do you know?
harry

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Bob Higgins  wrote:
> I was interested enough in Dr. Jiang's latest paper that I went to the
> trouble to do a proper translation from Chinese to English.  Google
> translate just wasn't good enough.  If you read through the Google translate
> version, you skip over things that Google didn't translate well enough - and
> in fact, there were some gems hidden in there.
>
> For your reading pleasure ... on my Google Drive
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Pc25a4cOM2bV9DLUp1MTkwU1U
>
> Bob Higgins
>

Re: [Vo]:New paper from Jiang in Chinese

The term x-ray covers a wide range of em energies. The softest x-rays
are stopped by air.

Harry

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Russ George <russ.geo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If x-ray "warming" is taking place then we are at the very simple 'dead 
> graduate student' test phase.. a dose of radiation capable of warming 
> anything is surely lethal so just look into the lab and count the number of 
> dead grad students lying on the floor, any number greater than 0 means a 
> dramatic nuclear process in hand :(
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: H LV [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 5:15 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:New paper from Jiang in Chinese
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Notice the delayed rise in T4 at the beginning of the experiment. The
>>>
>>> rise in T4 after power is turned off might just be the delayed
>>> dissipation of heat from inside to the outside.
>>
>>
>> I do not think so. Look closely as the power is being reduced, at
>> around time 14:00, shortly before "Power off." (About 7 minutes
>> before.) T4 suddenly pops up, from 110°C up to around 120°C.
>>
>> Maybe that is just noise, but if it is real, it does not look like
>> delayed dissipation to me.
>>
>> Unless the configuration of the cell is changed, I do not see how the
>> dissipation could increase suddenly like that. By "changed" I mean for
>> example, suppose the MgO insulation is wrapped around and attached
>> with adhesive tape. Suppose you loosen the tape. The outside
>> temperature might change suddenly. I doubt anyone would make such
>> changes to the cell during a test.
>>
>> If there were heat left in the cell that had to be dissipated after
>> the power is turned off, I suppose the T4 curve would continue rising
>> at a steady pace for a while, then it would drop off. It would not
>> have leveled off after 13:20. It seems the temperature inside the cell
>> continued in a stable condition if we can believe that either T1 or T2
>> was working correctly. So there was no large increase in the internal 
>> temperature.
>>
>> Granted there was a sudden increase in temperature in T1 and T2. It
>> happens at time 14:20. I just drew some lines on the graph, and I
>> think that T1 and
>> T2 go up and reach a peak about 6 minutes before T4 suddenly
>> increased. T1 continues for 26 minutes at the higher temperature.
>>
>> I would not expect T4 to pop up like that in response to the increase
>> shown by T1 and T2. I would expect T4 to gradually rise in response to
>> that increase. Perhaps it might continue after T1 peaks, but it would
>> be a continual, gradual rise. That kind of slow rise is what T4 does
>> after the initial jump, followed by a gradual decay.
>
> Ok, but if there was so much more heat being produced in the reactor why is 
> T1 dropping so quickly while T4 is gradually rising?
> Maybe the surface (see the diagram) on which the sensor was mounted was 
> warmed by a burst of xrays.
>
> harry
>
>

Re: [Vo]:New paper from Jiang in Chinese

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 9:47 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Bob Higgins  wrote:
>
>> I was interested enough in Dr. Jiang's latest paper that I went to the
>> trouble to do a proper translation from Chinese to English.
>
>
> That's very helpful. Thank you!
>
> I did not know you speak Chinese. I suppose that is more in demand in the
> 21st century than Japanese. I should have known! Japan's population is
> gradually falling, falling, falling . . .
>
> http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/japan-population/

Median age of 53 by 2050?!

Harry

Re: [Vo]:New paper from Jiang in Chinese

>From Jiang's paper (courtesy Bob Higgins translation):

"How could T1 and T2 temperatures differ by so much? This is because
thermocouple T1 is in
the atmosphere, and is easily equilibrated to room temperature. T2 is
located in a sealed stainless
steel vessel, and the gas inside the vessel is at a very low pressure,
near vacuum, having better
insulating properties like a thermos."

Jiang wrote this to explain the temperature difference during the
phase labeled 'self-sustaining' in the first run,
but I think it also explains the temperature difference during the
phase labeled 'excess heat' when the power was on.
T2 is hotter in the 'on' phase because it is located in a vessel where
heat can't escape to the air by convection. Therefore, the reactor
is not generating heat at this time so it would be incorrect to call
this 'excess heat'.

The 'self-sustaining' phase that follows represents the release of
energy which was being stored while the power was on.
When the power is on I would call this the charging phase. The large
fluctuations in T2 during the charging phase indicate the storage
process is volatile. (All this assumes T2 is reliable throughout the run.)

Harry

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Bob Higgins  wrote:
> I was interested enough in Dr. Jiang's latest paper that I went to the
> trouble to do a proper translation from Chinese to English.  Google
> translate just wasn't good enough.  If you read through the Google translate
> version, you skip over things that Google didn't translate well enough - and
> in fact, there were some gems hidden in there.
>
> For your reading pleasure ... on my Google Drive
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Pc25a4cOM2bV9DLUp1MTkwU1U
>
> Bob Higgins
>

Re: [Vo]:Events at the end of Jiang's run #2, Fig. 3

I think you interchanged T1 and T2.

Harry

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> I printed out the graph and measured the elapsed time between events toward
> the end of the run, starting around hour 14:00. I measured some temperatures
> on the right Y axis. I assume T2 and T4 are correct. I do not trust T1.
> Times are approximate:
>
> Minute 0. T1 and T2 begin rising. T4 stable.
>
> Minute 14. T4 suddenly rises from 110°C up to around 120°C.
>
> Minute 30. T1 falls abruptly. Becomes erratic.
>
> Minute 34. Power off. T2 begins falling. T4 still rising.
>
> Minute 41. T2 begins falling much faster.
>
> Minute 68. T4 reaches a peak temperature of 167°C. This is 34 minutes after
> the power has cut off.
>
> Note that from ~9:00 to 13:15, T4 rose from ~20°C and stabilized at 110°C,
> in response to internal power levels that raised T1 and T2 up to around
> 1100°C. In other words, T4 goes up 90°C, or 1 degree for each 12 degree
> increase in T1 and T2.
>
> Then when T1 and T2 rose only about 100°C more, up to around 1200°C, T4 rose
> proportionally much more than before. It should have gone up ~8°C. Instead,
> it jumped up by around 24°C initially, then it gradually climbed to a peak
> of 167°C, a 57°C increase, even though T1 and T2 had already fallen
> drastically when it peaked.
>
> I cannot make head or tail of this behavior. If there is heat after death,
> it should show up on T2, but I don't see it. T1 is probably damaged, but T2
> seems intact.
>
> - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Cellani replication 'flea bitten' lenr radiation NOT

2016-03-10 Thread H LV

Since the apparatus was not enclosed in a calorimeter, Thermacore's
estimate for excess heat production depends on the assumption that the
"heat loss to the environment"  is the same for the calibration runs
and the active runs.

Harry

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
> Here is the relevant citation from the LENR-CANR library – it is one of the
> strongest demonstrations of Ni-H out there, in the sense of the credibility
> of the High Technology company doing the work, and acceptance by the funder
> (USAF - WRIGHT-PATTERSON) and the fact they ran a similar experiment for
> over a year of gain. Modest gain but solid proof.
>
> http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GernertNnascenthyd.pdf
>
> I would be extremely happy if Rossi’s result was the same range of COP (1.5)
> as long as the proof was as verifiable as this.
>
> One has to wonder about the credibility of an anonymous poster who claims to
> get excess heat in a Celani experiment, publishes no data, and instead of
> using Constantin wire as does Celani – he uses nickel. Or is the data and
> other details posted somewhere?
>
> At best - that makes it a Thermacore experiment, which actually gives it
> more credibility than Celani. But it should not be confused with Celani
> where the wire treatment is said to be critical.
>
> There is no doubt that Thermacore had about the same gain using nickel and
> also could not make it go higher than about COP ~1.5.
>
> From: Jack Cole
>
> me356 seems fairly certain about getting excess heat repeatedly in Celani
> type experiments (up to 1.5x).  He does mention using 30ft of wire!  Maybe
> that matters.
>
> https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2850-me356-Celani-Ni-Wire-replication/?pageNo=1
>
> Andrew Hrischanovich also reports achieving 1.5x in Celani type experiments
> and notes higher pressure seemed to help ~10 bar.  In personal
> communication, he indicates being unable to push it beyond that and is
> currently focused on TiH2.
>
> http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/02/05/tales-from-the-laboratory-of-experimental-physics-lenr-research-in-ukraine-and-russia-by-andrew-hrischanovich-alan-smith/
>
> Of course as we have seen time and again, there is often something
> discovered which invalidates the results.
>
> Jack
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Progress in humanoid robots

2016-03-10 Thread H LV

Great. Here is an American interviewing a Canadian about an upcoming
Basic income experiment in Ontario, Canada.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okx60F3eHpo

Harry

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Lennart Thornros <lenn...@thornros.com> wrote:
> Harry,
> I liked the discussion.
> There was much to take from this debate.
> Just as important is to change the tax  system and the power distribution.
> Obviously a progressive tax system but a smooth progress. Take away all
> deductions and tax all type of income equally.
> Eliminate all double taxation.
> The definition of work needs to be looked upon with reality in mind.
> When the garbage workers go on strike it is an emergency after a week or
> two.
> When the bankers went on strike in Ireland everything went on as usual and
> after six months the bankers began work again.
> There is work and then there is work.
> Finland an Switzerland are considering seriously to implement the idea.
> I suppose the US should try at least to look into the issue. We certainly
> have a more complicated social system than most European countries.
> The debate showed that there are not without problem to implement something
> like basic income.
> Unfortunately there is a lot of people that think a step wise change would
> be good.
> It reminds me of the proposal when Sweden went from left to right side
> driving in -67; "why don't we start with the trucks?"
> We have a tendency to overthink things. In Switzerland they talk about 2,500
> CH franken (CHF) per adult and 800 CHF for children.
> I think that type of complication will open up for complications.
> Anyhow, the debate was good. I think we need something to make things more
> equal all over the world.
> I think the timing is ripe. Just like all changes it has resistance.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 5:23 PM, H LV <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03kptyk
>> BBC audio
>> What if governments paid all their citizens a basic income? Whether
>> rich or poor, you would receive the same amount of money, and you
>> would keep it whether you went out to work and received a salary or
>> not. It is an idea that has been around for centuries, but one that
>> has been gaining traction in recent times as welfare payments become
>> ever more complex and expensive to administer. Proponents also argue
>> that it would remove the 'poverty trap' where people are dissuaded
>> from seeking work because they would lose their benefits if they did
>> so. There is also the issue of machines taking over many of the jobs
>> that we all do to earn a living - not just basic manual tasks, but
>> increasingly 'intelligent' work that will in the future be carried out
>> by robots. Join Owen Bennett Jones and his panel of expert guests as
>> they discuss the future of work and how we pay for it. Should we give
>> free money to everyone and let robots take the strain?
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

2016-03-14 Thread H LV

The common wisdom is that the laws of motion are not necessarily in
effect when a mind is moved. In this situation a given action does not
necessarily result in an equal and opposite reaction. Action
instigates a response which from the point of view of the action
appears as an under or an over reaction or a "misdirected" reaction.
However, material reductionists hold that mind is ultimately
explainable in terms of the laws of motion so any apparent
inconsistency with the laws of motion is just apparent and not real.
Can measurement show this object does not conform with the laws of
motion. If it can then there is case to be made that the mathematics
of mind are not reducible to the laws of motion.

Harry

Harry

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 7:03 AM, Vibrator !  wrote:
> Yes, and this is why KE = 1/2 MV^2 - ie., why the acceleration unit cost
> escalates; a given force has to be applied over an ever-greater distance as
> velocity (time rate of change of position) increases.  Alternatively, we
> could hold displacement constant and progressively raise the force
> magnitude.
>
> Yet Craig still seems to have a point - without some kind of corporeal
> reaction mass, what is an EM drive's velocity actually relative to?  What's
> its reference frame, if not the thing it's pushing against?
>
> To illustrate the conundrum, suppose i have an EM drive aboard a train, and
> you the observer are standing on the platform as the train passes through
> the station:  I fire the engine, and it accelerates by 1 meter / sec.
>
> Suppose the engine weighs 10 kg.  From my perspective, its KE has increased
> by 5 Joules - ie. it's perrformed 5 J of mechanical work, regardless of how
> much more energy may have been wasted to heat.
>
> But if the train was already travelling at 10 m/s, and the drive accelerated
> in the same direction, then from your stationary perspective the drive has
> accelerated up from 10 to 11 m/s - and for a 10 kg mass that's a workload of
> 105 J - bringing its KE up from 500 J to 605 J.
>
> So, has the drive burned 5 J or 105 J?
>
>
> If i cheated - the drive doesn't really work, and i just gave it a
> surreptitious shove - this same paradox is resolved by a corresponding
> deceleration of the train - ie. if i accelerate a small mass against the
> inertia of a larger mass, the latter is decelerated and net momentum is
> conserved.
>
> Except here, the drive ISN'T pushing against the train.  Yet it still
> benefits from its ambient velocity.  Net momentum is NOT conserved, and
> neither is energy.
>
>
> And so the question arises, how does the EM drive "know" what its reference
> frame is?  Shawyer claims (or seems to imply) that the unit cost of
> acceleration increases as we would normally expect (distance over which a
> given force is applied keeps rising) - but how does it measure "distance"?
> Relative to what, exactly?   Without physical reaction mass, such a system
> has its own unique reference frame - from within which, energy may be
> conserved, but which from without, cannot be.
>
> I mean this not as a crtitique against the plausibility of such systems, and
> share the prevailing cautious optimism.  But if they do work, then we also
> have an energy anomaly.
>
> In the many years i've been researching classical symmetry breaks, one thing
> has become clear - the only way to explain away a real symmetry break is to
> invoke another somewhere else up or downstream (it's a standard recourse for
> pseudoskeptics).  As much as i'd welcome free energy, momentum and FTL
> travel, and despite Shawyer's assurances everything's classically
> consistent, these enigmatic implications remain..   for me, at least.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:17 AM,  wrote:
>>
>> In reply to  Craig Haynie's message of Sun, 13 Mar 2016 21:08:43 -0400:
>> Hi,
>> [snip]
>>
>> Note the use of the word "acceleration".
>>
>> Acceleration produces a force. Force times distance = energy.
>>
>> >This doesn't make any sense:
>> >
>> >"For a given acceleration period, the higher the mean velocity, the
>> >longer the distance travelled, hence the higher the energy lost by the
>> >engine."
>> >
>> >Since we're not talking about relativistic speeds, then the idea that a
>> >device will consume more energy, over a given period of time, simply
>> >because it's moving, would violate Einstein's Special Relativity which
>> >says there's no preferred frame of reference. The moving object cannot
>> >be said to be moving at all.
>> >
>> >Craig
>> Regards,
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>>
>

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

2016-03-18 Thread H LV

Relative to its initial state it has gained kinetic energy. If the
Emdrive needs and external source of energy then it may work by
preserving CoE but by violating CoM.

Harry

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 11:58 AM, David Roberson  wrote:
> Of course the EM drive ship that remains in this extreme case(actually
> nothing at all if zero exhaust is present) is at rest which means it has
> zero kinetic energy relative to itself.  Again, this is not a problem for a
> normal rocket that spits out reaction mass.  In that case all the missing
> mass and energy can be located by analyzing the exhaust stream.  This is
> true regardless of what reference frame you choose.  A normal rocket obeys
> CoE and CoM whereas the EM Drive ship does not.
>
> If it can be shown that the EM drive emits its mass in the form of radiation
> out the exhaust then all is well.  But thus far it is suggested that nothing
> is performing that function.
>
> Dave
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mixent 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Wed, Mar 16, 2016 9:29 pm
> Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)
>
> In reply to David Roberson's message of Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:19:13 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
>>When might somehow be important but if you take the process to the extreme
>> you get a result that doesn't make any sense. For example, if the spaceship
>> continues to use up its mass in a constant acceleration process that
>> requires power and thus energy to be expended for the drive, then eventually
>> there will be no mass left at all. All of the original mass is lost if this
>> takes place. That does not make sense.
>
> The process stops, when all the mass has been converted into kinetic energy.
>
> The only thing I know of that only has kinetic energy and no mass is EM
> radiation.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Another interpretation regarding the EmDrive is that the thrust is
real but the effect (for whatever reason) requires an external source
of electricity. On the plus side the thrust could not be explained
away as an artifact of the electrical forces between the input wires,
but on the down side it would mean the EmDrive could not power itself.

Harry

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

I wrote:
> Another interpretation regarding the EmDrive is that the thrust is
> real but the effect (for whatever reason) requires an external source
> of electricity. On the plus side the thrust could not be explained
> away as an artifact of the electrical forces between the input wires,
> but on the down side it would mean the EmDrive could not power itself.

Well not necessarily an external source of electricity, although it
would need an external source of energy. So would a solar powered
EmDrive yield more thrust then a conventional solar powered ion drive?

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

2016-03-14 Thread H LV

The description of how the EM drive should move makes me think of a
movie of a rocket played backwards.
The movie-in-reverse-rocket would initially accelerate a lot and then
the rate of acceleration would decrease until it stops accelerating
and is at rest or coasting.
I have also read that the EM drive accelerates in the opposite
direction that is normally expected and a movie-in-reverse-rocket
would behave similarly.
Note: The movie-in-reverse-rocket is a metaphor rather than an analogy
since matter is not literally following into the drive.

CoE is preserved through the conversion of energy into mass. The
second LoT is broken and so is CoM, but how many laws does the
universe need?

Or maybe the measured thrust is only artifact.

Harry



On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM, David Roberson  wrote:
> Good argument.  I just wanted to add one thought.
>
> From the EM drive's point of view the CoE must be violated because as it
> accelerates in space a portion of it's mass must be converted into energy
> that is used to power the drive.  When it ceases to use the drive it begins
> to remain motionless in space from its point of view.   Where did that mass
> go which was converted into energy that powered the drive?  Did it simply
> vanish?
>
> This problem does not exist for normal rocket engines that expel a reaction
> mass.  In that case, the energy is accounted for by the mass that is
> speeding rapidly away from the rocket.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Vibrator ! 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Mon, Mar 14, 2016 7:03 am
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)
>
> Yes, and this is why KE = 1/2 MV^2 - ie., why the acceleration unit cost
> escalates; a given force has to be applied over an ever-greater distance as
> velocity (time rate of change of position) increases.  Alternatively, we
> could hold displacement constant and progressively raise the force
> magnitude.
>
> Yet Craig still seems to have a point - without some kind of corporeal
> reaction mass, what is an EM drive's velocity actually relative to?  What's
> its reference frame, if not the thing it's pushing against?
>
> To illustrate the conundrum, suppose i have an EM drive aboard a train, and
> you the observer are standing on the platform as the train passes through
> the station:  I fire the engine, and it accelerates by 1 meter / sec.
>
> Suppose the engine weighs 10 kg.  From my perspective, its KE has increased
> by 5 Joules - ie. it's perrformed 5 J of mechanical work, regardless of how
> much more energy may have been wasted to heat.
>
> But if the train was already travelling at 10 m/s, and the drive accelerated
> in the same direction, then from your stationary perspective the drive has
> accelerated up from 10 to 11 m/s - and for a 10 kg mass that's a workload of
> 105 J - bringing its KE up from 500 J to 605 J.
>
> So, has the drive burned 5 J or 105 J?
>
>
> If i cheated - the drive doesn't really work, and i just gave it a
> surreptitious shove - this same paradox is resolved by a corresponding
> deceleration of the train - ie. if i accelerate a small mass against the
> inertia of a larger mass, the latter is decelerated and net momentum is
> conserved.
>
> Except here, the drive ISN'T pushing against the train.  Yet it still
> benefits from its ambient velocity.  Net momentum is NOT conserved, and
> neither is energy.
>
>
> And so the question arises, how does the EM drive "know" what its reference
> frame is?  Shawyer claims (or seems to imply) that the unit cost of
> acceleration increases as we would normally expect (distance over which a
> given force is applied keeps rising) - but how does it measure "distance"?
> Relative to what, exactly?   Without physical reaction mass, such a system
> has its own unique reference frame - from within which, energy may be
> conserved, but which from without, cannot be.
>
> I mean this not as a crtitique against the plausibility of such systems, and
> share the prevailing cautious optimism.  But if they do work, then we also
> have an energy anomaly.
>
> In the many years i've been researching classical symmetry breaks, one thing
> has become clear - the only way to explain away a real symmetry break is to
> invoke another somewhere else up or downstream (it's a standard recourse for
> pseudoskeptics).  As much as i'd welcome free energy, momentum and FTL
> travel, and despite Shawyer's assurances everything's classically
> consistent, these enigmatic implications remain..   for me, at least.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:17 AM,  wrote:
>>
>> In reply to  Craig Haynie's message of Sun, 13 Mar 2016 21:08:43 -0400:
>> Hi,
>> [snip]
>>
>> Note the use of the word "acceleration".
>>
>> Acceleration produces a force. Force times distance = energy.
>>
>> >This doesn't make any sense:
>> >
>> >"For a given acceleration period, the higher the mean velocity, the
>> >longer the distance travelled, hence the higher the

Re: [Vo]:Cellani replication 'flea bitten' lenr radiation NOT

2016-03-12 Thread H LV

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: H LV
>
>> Since the apparatus was not enclosed in a calorimeter, Thermacore's estimate 
>> for excess heat production depends on the assumption that the "heat loss to 
>> the environment"  is the same for the calibration runs and the active runs.
>
> Yes, but that parameter can be accurately controlled and measured by skilled 
> experts.
>
> Thermacore is possibly the leading expert in the world at heat measurement. 
> They invented the heat pipe, for instance. Thermal engineering is their 
> specialty.
>

Even if calorimetry established there was no excess heat, the thermal
anomaly would survive. All claims of excess of heat (including P's)
are based on observations of thermal anomalies plus the hypothesis
that the storage of input energy is either irrelevant or impossible.
There has never been an energy audit that proves the effect yields
more energy produced than all the energy used through out the *entire*
history of an experiment.

quoting Mckubre
<> from the wikipedia page on Martin Fleishman.

In other words, the possibility of "unknown" storage effect has never
been ruled out.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Statement from Industrial Heat

2016-03-12 Thread H LV

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Lennart Thornros  wrote:

> The COP is a canard. It is of no importance at this stage in the research.
> Worrying about the COP now is like fretting about the need for retractable
> landing gear on airplanes in 1904, six months after the first flight at
> Kitty Hawk. There are a thousand issues more important than this, and when
> the other issues are solved -- especially control -- we will have any COP we
> want.
>

I posses a device that has an effective COP of infinity.
Can I have a million dollars to bring Candle Power to the world?

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Cellani replication 'flea bitten' lenr radiation NOT

2016-03-12 Thread H LV

On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: H LV
>
> Ø   All claims of excess of heat (including P's) are based on
> observations of thermal anomalies plus the hypothesis that the storage of
> input energy is either irrelevant or impossible. There has never been an
> energy audit that proves the effect yields more energy produced than all the
> energy used throughout the *entire* history of an experiment.
>
> That’s not accurate, Harry. P ran a cell for 6 months of continuous gain
> in France, and Thermacore ran for over a year. No way was the startup delay
> which was not over a couple of days in either case - commensurate with the
> net output over the long runtime.
>
> Ø   In other words, the possibility of "unknown" storage effect has
> never
> been ruled out.
>
> That is partially true, since in one sense there probably is always a
> “storage effect,” within the process. It would be ongoing, however, and is
> already factored into the net gain in situations like the above – in the two
> long runs, one of P and the other Thermacore.

In the case of P & F has the energy spent loading the Pd before the
excess heat event
been included in calculations of gain? And by that I don't mean the
energy used in theory to the load the Pd,
I mean the actual energy used.
As I said in the case of Thermocore their claim of gain still involves
an assumption about energy loss to the environment.
The assumption might be a reasonable working hypothesis but that
doesn't guarantee it is accurate.

> If Rossi has proved net gain
> over a year, he would be the third instance of very long gain.
>

I think it will average out to no gain.

>
> This ongoing storage would be the situation where dense hydrogen or
> deuterium must be made in situ, before being use for gain. However, in a
> well-controlled system, the manufacture and use are in sync and after the
> startup delay - there is continuity of gain despite the ongoing storage.

A research emphasis on gain has meant LENR's potential for energy
storage and conversion has been overlooked.
So even if it proves impractical or impossible for LENR to serve as a
source of cheap and clean energy, LENR can still shine in other
respects.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Statement from Industrial Heat

2016-03-11 Thread H LV

If there is no "excess heat" but still something useful like the
conversion of heat into electricity or light,  Industrial Heat will
have to undergo a name change.
Maybe Industrial Light and Magic? ;-)

Harry

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:
> Too unclear and this has allowed Krivit to publish his variant of the story-
> IH- Rossi divorce.
>
> Peter
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
>>
>> Craig Haynie  wrote:
>>
>>> Reading between the lines... Does it sound like they're preparing us for
>>> a negative report on Rossi's one year test?
>>
>>
>> It does sound that way.
>>
>> The statement is oblique, but clearly it is intended to reduce excitement
>> and dial back people's expectations.
>>
>> I think the statement also clearly says: "if you do not hear something
>> from us, don't believe it." It says that here:
>>
>> "That’s why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should
>> only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat . . ."
>>
>>
>> In other words, Rossi does not speak for Industrial Heat. I.H. does not
>> affirm Rossi's statements on his blog. It probably also means that if Rossi
>> issues a report which has not been cleared by I.H. and published by them,
>> they do not affirm it. Meaning endorse it.
>>
>> The statement is unclear but I think that part is clear.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Rewind

Rocket launch play backwards.
https://youtu.be/dGf4iXK95SY

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Rewind