Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Ralph wrote: whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] High Gain 8186HP CPE
Deliberant has a nice cpe now in the 2714 model. Using it in a few places - more stable / better throughput than the tranzeo equivs -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Gain 8186HP CPE Mike - I've had horrible luck with the High Gain products in the past. Also ran into some customer service issues when we had a problem with them.. I won't rehash on here but feel free to contact me offlist... I'd highly suggest to continue using Mikrotik or Tranzeo - I've had problems with Tranzeo products too, as well as some versions of MT software, but nothing compares to the aggrivation I had in dealing with High Gain. The out of the box Tranzeo CPEs for the price have seemed to be the most stable / reliable low cost CPE we've used thus far. JohnnyO - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] High Gain 8186HP CPE I have a stack of High-Gain CPEs that don't work. Just a FYI. We also waited a bit over a MONTH to get the first order. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] High Gain 8186HP CPE Has anyone used this before? I normally use MT units everywhere, but I figured that I could save my customers money when they want to repeat to other buildings of theirs. Instead of setting up a 5 GHz AP with N-Streme and 5 GHz N-Streme clients, I'm looking at moving to 802.11g for everything. Someone suggested to me the High Gain 8186HP CPE and it looks like a good deal. What sort of mounting options does it have (can't tell from the pictures)? Normally I put up a UM and U-bolt it on, but my customer would like a flat-mount solution. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] MT Babble
Well, it will be a non issue because there will be certified option. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike, That is a big IF there. As I said before I don't see that every single hardware configuration deployed using Mikrotik will be covered. So to say that Mikrotik FCC System Certification will be a non issue is not a reasonable statement to make. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: IIRC, if everything is the same, you can label it as containing X, Y, Z and be compliant. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I have to agree that even if there is a certified system in the works this will not make ALL Mikrotik installations certified. There will most likely be some uncertified gear left in the field as I don't believe that some wireless providers will rip out there existing hardware to comply with system certification. I also don't think it will be a non issue anytime soon. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
If a radio had a design like listen before transmit for clear airspace and only transmit when the clock says I can then it could be used in any band including all of 3650. What would keep this out of all of 3650? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: The N-Streme protocol has been around for a while and supports polling and resolves many disadvantages in WIFI. N-Streme may not be able to work in 3.6 GHz as it may not be wifi enough. They could couple the GPS sync with the N-Streme at least for other bands. MT systems have the among (if not the best) performance out there for among the lowest pricing. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael J. Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike Hammett wrote: I know Mikrotik has been getting beat up over not having it. I guess I wasn't paying attention. Pretty much any reason they stated why they couldn't do it was refuted by seemingly knowledgeable people. As typical, when Mikrotik was proved incorrect, they acted like a bunch of 5 year olds. I have yet to see them do any such thing. It might be useful here to explain that Mikrotik is a vendor of router platforms. It is nice that they have these cool little boards which can accept, *among other things* cool little radios. That does not make them a wireless vendor. For example, we are only marginally interested in using MT at the edge or our network but we are very interested in replacing our existing NOC with a something almost completly MT based. So you see, it may well be that there is no real reason for MT to try to compete in the TDM arena. They don't build radios. They don't have their systems FCC certified but anyone who so chooses could probably make money doing that and then reselling their product. All of that said, do you know of a TDM radio card that comes in a format which can be installed in a MT router? For that matter do you know of a TDM radio which comes as any kind of card even PCI? There really is no point to GPS sync on a CSMA/CA based system such as 802.11x. So the question I have is what sort of system components would one combine with an MT to start doing GPS based TDM communications and the second part is when would I use GPS sync in I was not running a TDM system? Thanks -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
[WISPA] Ethereal/WireShark Scans
All, Anyone that is familiar,very familiar, with Ethereal Please contact me. I need some help. Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
I just don't know enough about the innerworkings of N-Streme to know if it is WIFI enough to use the whole thing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. If a radio had a design like listen before transmit for clear airspace and only transmit when the clock says I can then it could be used in any band including all of 3650. What would keep this out of all of 3650? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: The N-Streme protocol has been around for a while and supports polling and resolves many disadvantages in WIFI. N-Streme may not be able to work in 3.6 GHz as it may not be wifi enough. They could couple the GPS sync with the N-Streme at least for other bands. MT systems have the among (if not the best) performance out there for among the lowest pricing. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael J. Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike Hammett wrote: I know Mikrotik has been getting beat up over not having it. I guess I wasn't paying attention. Pretty much any reason they stated why they couldn't do it was refuted by seemingly knowledgeable people. As typical, when Mikrotik was proved incorrect, they acted like a bunch of 5 year olds. I have yet to see them do any such thing. It might be useful here to explain that Mikrotik is a vendor of router platforms. It is nice that they have these cool little boards which can accept, *among other things* cool little radios. That does not make them a wireless vendor. For example, we are only marginally interested in using MT at the edge or our network but we are very interested in replacing our existing NOC with a something almost completly MT based. So you see, it may well be that there is no real reason for MT to try to compete in the TDM arena. They don't build radios. They don't have their systems FCC certified but anyone who so chooses could probably make money doing that and then reselling their product. All of that said, do you know of a TDM radio card that comes in a format which can be installed in a MT router? For that matter do you know of a TDM radio which comes as any kind of card even PCI? There really is no point to GPS sync on a CSMA/CA based system such as 802.11x. So the question I have is what sort of system components would one combine with an MT to start doing GPS based TDM communications and the second part is when would I use GPS sync in I was not running a TDM system? Thanks -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for
Re: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..the lawyers win most
Only if all radios were required to use the same time slot assignments. That would make full duplex links impossible (or at least hinder them greatly since they would have to have a down time not to step on another radios RX period) On 6/9/07, Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WiMAX, scheduled Canopy, and any other system that can be synchronized -- i.e. automatically cooperate -- with like systems, but cannot sense and deal with other resident systems are confined to the lower 25 MHz. If all units were required to use GPS sync I think the band would be a much better option. Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
I...I give up talking to you. You take what I say and twist it horribly as if I am some renegade pioneer of MT. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Mike, This does not make everyone using a Mikrotik system legal though. It is not just as easy as saying I use the same components in my system as the one certified so I am legal. In case you are unaware, this would also include the enclosure and the power supply even then you still need the documentation from the entity that certified the system. The system must be exactly the same soup to nuts. Again for you to say that an FCC Certified Mikrotik System would make any Mikrotik legality a non issue is an unreasonable statement. Below is a link that might be helpful; http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-56A1.pdf Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: Well, it will be a non issue because there will be certified option. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike, That is a big IF there. As I said before I don't see that every single hardware configuration deployed using Mikrotik will be covered. So to say that Mikrotik FCC System Certification will be a non issue is not a reasonable statement to make. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: IIRC, if everything is the same, you can label it as containing X, Y, Z and be compliant. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I have to agree that even if there is a certified system in the works this will not make ALL Mikrotik installations certified. There will most likely be some uncertified gear left in the field as I don't believe that some wireless providers will rip out there existing hardware to comply with system certification. I also don't think it will be a non issue anytime soon. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
I bet Mike meant to say As long as there's a Mikrotik 3.6 GHZ certified system out there that people can buy to use with this band, it's a non-issue. :) I'm willing to bet that will be soon. - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Mike, This does not make everyone using a Mikrotik system legal though. It is not just as easy as saying I use the same components in my system as the one certified so I am legal. In case you are unaware, this would also include the enclosure and the power supply even then you still need the documentation from the entity that certified the system. The system must be exactly the same soup to nuts. Again for you to say that an FCC Certified Mikrotik System would make any Mikrotik legality a non issue is an unreasonable statement. Below is a link that might be helpful; http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-56A1.pdf Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: Well, it will be a non issue because there will be certified option. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike, That is a big IF there. As I said before I don't see that every single hardware configuration deployed using Mikrotik will be covered. So to say that Mikrotik FCC System Certification will be a non issue is not a reasonable statement to make. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: IIRC, if everything is the same, you can label it as containing X, Y, Z and be compliant. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I have to agree that even if there is a certified system in the works this will not make ALL Mikrotik installations certified. There will most likely be some uncertified gear left in the field as I don't believe that some wireless providers will rip out there existing hardware to comply with system certification. I also don't think it will be a non issue anytime soon. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
I don't really understand this MT thread at all. Why use MT over all the other certified systems available? Further, why spend time and money trying to get MT certified? Why not just use certified gear that is available from vendors that are actually interested in participating in this market? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Was [WISPA] MT Babble -- Now who is strictly legal?
Mike; She is making perfectly good sense and she is not trying to make you look like anything. When you deal with legal issues things are usually pretty black and white for the little guy. Now if your name is Paris Hilton usually things are pretty much white all the time, except yesterday ;) HAAHH! As for legality and legal systems. Ninety five percent of operators are mixing and matching antennas which are of higher gain than the factory approved antennas, so ninety five percent of operators have crossed the strict line at one point or another. So let's have a show of hands. Who can honestly say they are a 100% FCC approved shop? No fair lying! -m- Mike Hammett wrote: I...I give up talking to you. You take what I say and twist it horribly as if I am some renegade pioneer of MT. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Mike, This does not make everyone using a Mikrotik system legal though. It is not just as easy as saying I use the same components in my system as the one certified so I am legal. In case you are unaware, this would also include the enclosure and the power supply even then you still need the documentation from the entity that certified the system. The system must be exactly the same soup to nuts. Again for you to say that an FCC Certified Mikrotik System would make any Mikrotik legality a non issue is an unreasonable statement. Below is a link that might be helpful; http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-56A1.pdf Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: Well, it will be a non issue because there will be certified option. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike, That is a big IF there. As I said before I don't see that every single hardware configuration deployed using Mikrotik will be covered. So to say that Mikrotik FCC System Certification will be a non issue is not a reasonable statement to make. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: IIRC, if everything is the same, you can label it as containing X, Y, Z and be compliant. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I have to agree that even if there is a certified system in the works this will not make ALL Mikrotik installations certified. There will most likely be some uncertified gear left in the field as I don't believe that some wireless providers will rip out there existing hardware to comply with system certification. I also don't think it will be a non issue anytime soon. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
Cheaper / Better. Faster would remain to be seen. I like having filtering / queuing / all the mikrotik routing features, etc right behind the radio instead of one hop inside the antenna. And it doesn't matter whether Mikrotik's really interested or not in the market - Ubiquity Networks IS, and they have the card that we'll all be using - SR/XR3 - all built on the existing Atheros implementations in Mikrotik R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble I don't really understand this MT thread at all. Why use MT over all the other certified systems available? Further, why spend time and money trying to get MT certified? Why not just use certified gear that is available from vendors that are actually interested in participating in this market? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Mike, If this is what you think I am trying to do then you are sorely mistaken. I just don't want others to think that if there is any Mikrotik FCC Certified System in the works then all Mikrotik systems are legal in any way shape or form. Which is what I took you to say with your statement. If I am wrong in that interpretation then I apologize. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: I...I give up talking to you. You take what I say and twist it horribly as if I am some renegade pioneer of MT. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Mike, This does not make everyone using a Mikrotik system legal though. It is not just as easy as saying I use the same components in my system as the one certified so I am legal. In case you are unaware, this would also include the enclosure and the power supply even then you still need the documentation from the entity that certified the system. The system must be exactly the same soup to nuts. Again for you to say that an FCC Certified Mikrotik System would make any Mikrotik legality a non issue is an unreasonable statement. Below is a link that might be helpful; http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-56A1.pdf Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: Well, it will be a non issue because there will be certified option. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike, That is a big IF there. As I said before I don't see that every single hardware configuration deployed using Mikrotik will be covered. So to say that Mikrotik FCC System Certification will be a non issue is not a reasonable statement to make. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: IIRC, if everything is the same, you can label it as containing X, Y, Z and be compliant. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I have to agree that even if there is a certified system in the works this will not make ALL Mikrotik installations certified. There will most likely be some uncertified gear left in the field as I don't believe that some wireless providers will rip out there existing hardware to comply with system certification. I also don't think it will be a non issue anytime soon. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Smith, Rick wrote: Cheaper / Better. Faster would remain to be seen. I figured that would be the answer, but how does that help people who have no idea why MT might be cheaper or better? I'm not trying to start an argument; I would just like to know what about MT makes it worth risking one's business vs the other solutions out there. I like having filtering / queuing / all the mikrotik routing features, etc right behind the radio instead of one hop inside the antenna. Does that make any technical difference or is it just a preference? And it doesn't matter whether Mikrotik's really interested or not in the market - Ubiquity Networks IS, and they have the card that we'll all be using - SR/XR3 - all built on the existing Atheros implementations in Mikrotik Ubiquity would have to produce the complete the system and certified it, which may be what they want, but seems a good bit away from what they currently do. I know they have a complete system now, but that one system is a long way away from what other certified vendors provide. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
From what I've seen to date; Alvarion / Canopy / Trango backhaul equipment - they are merely (sometimes fancy) bridges. I prefer to route. Everything. Let's not start a war there, either pls. Ubiquity does NOT have to certify the whole system - they have to cert the miniPCI card - which I believe is already done. The whole system is up to whoever wants to certify it and then sell it as a system. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Smith, Rick wrote: Cheaper / Better. Faster would remain to be seen. I figured that would be the answer, but how does that help people who have no idea why MT might be cheaper or better? I'm not trying to start an argument; I would just like to know what about MT makes it worth risking one's business vs the other solutions out there. I like having filtering / queuing / all the mikrotik routing features, etc right behind the radio instead of one hop inside the antenna. Does that make any technical difference or is it just a preference? And it doesn't matter whether Mikrotik's really interested or not in the market - Ubiquity Networks IS, and they have the card that we'll all be using - SR/XR3 - all built on the existing Atheros implementations in Mikrotik Ubiquity would have to produce the complete the system and certified it, which may be what they want, but seems a good bit away from what they currently do. I know they have a complete system now, but that one system is a long way away from what other certified vendors provide. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Smith, Rick wrote: From what I've seen to date; Alvarion / Canopy / Trango backhaul equipment - they are merely (sometimes fancy) bridges. I don't know about all vendors, but Canopy APs certainly can be configured to route. Additionally, the Deliberant radios I have seen do routing as well. I only bring them up because they make use of miniPCI cards for their radios as well. I prefer to route. Everything. Let's not start a war there, either pls. Not looking for a war; just an answer to my earlier question in regard to choosing an uncertified MT system vs a certified system. Ubiquity does NOT have to certify the whole system - they have to cert the miniPCI card - which I believe is already done. The whole system is up to whoever wants to certify it and then sell it as a system. Alright, but then you are still stuck waiting on someone to certify a system. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] I repeat, Who is STRICTLY legal 100%?
It looks like the list is about to go down the finger pointing exercise of legalities, perceptions of legality, and interpretations of minutia. That is probably not a good idea so in the true tradition of casting the first stone, let me say this: If you are absolutely certain that you are absolutely legal and you are willing to make that assertion on list then you have a dog in this fight. Otherwise you probably done have a dog in this fight. :) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I repeat, Who is STRICTLY legal 100%?
Ok... we've been down this road before. STOP NOW, There is no need to rip WISPA apart AGAIN over this issue. This is the general list and all of these messages are open to everyone through Google search. This continued debate on certification will only in the end destroy WISPA. I ask again STOP IT NOW. Tim CV-Access, Inc. - Original Message - From: Michael Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: [WISPA] I repeat, Who is STRICTLY legal 100%? It looks like the list is about to go down the finger pointing exercise of legalities, perceptions of legality, and interpretations of minutia. That is probably not a good idea so in the true tradition of casting the first stone, let me say this: If you are absolutely certain that you are absolutely legal and you are willing to make that assertion on list then you have a dog in this fight. Otherwise you probably done have a dog in this fight. :) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] High Gain 8186HP CPE
I currently use both Deliberant and Highgain products without any issues. I mean, don't get me wrong, I have had some very simple problems with both vendors, but all of it was corrected ASAP. The only way I will use Tranzeo is for their 5Ghz units, as I have a bunch of them deployed as backhauls. I had tried Tranzeo units in the past for CPE's, but the firmware issues drove me nuts. The Deliberant units have all been rock solid and do what they are supposed to do, keep my customers online. The Highgain units have been great too. The OSBridge gear he sells works really well, as I have a few 5Gxi units in place for both backhaul in the 5.8Ghz range and PtmP in the 5.2Ghz range. These units are small and light weight , almost to the point of looking and feeling cheesey , but yet they keep right on rolling along, so I guess looks are deceiving?. The price point from these two vendors is also hard to beat. The DLB units are around $150 each and the HighGain units can be had for $99 each. I guess each person has their own opinion about how things work. My luck is usually really bad, as most everything I touch seems to fall apart and break (Maybe that was just a SmartBridges curse?, LOL!) I have a pair of the OSBridge full duplex backhaul units on order, and I am anxious to see how well they perform?. I am hoping to get around 30Mb each way with them, so I guess we will see how they do?. http://www.highgainantennas.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=5GXTShow=TechSpecs Smith, Rick wrote: Deliberant has a nice cpe now in the 2714 model. Using it in a few places - more stable / better throughput than the tranzeo equivs -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Gain 8186HP CPE Mike - I've had horrible luck with the High Gain products in the past. Also ran into some customer service issues when we had a problem with them.. I won't rehash on here but feel free to contact me offlist... I'd highly suggest to continue using Mikrotik or Tranzeo - I've had problems with Tranzeo products too, as well as some versions of MT software, but nothing compares to the aggrivation I had in dealing with High Gain. The out of the box Tranzeo CPEs for the price have seemed to be the most stable / reliable low cost CPE we've used thus far. JohnnyO - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] High Gain 8186HP CPE I have a stack of High-Gain CPEs that don't work. Just a FYI. We also waited a bit over a MONTH to get the first order. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] High Gain 8186HP CPE Has anyone used this before? I normally use MT units everywhere, but I figured that I could save my customers money when they want to repeat to other buildings of theirs. Instead of setting up a 5 GHz AP with N-Streme and 5 GHz N-Streme clients, I'm looking at moving to 802.11g for everything. Someone suggested to me the High Gain 8186HP CPE and it looks like a good deal. What sort of mounting options does it have (can't tell from the pictures)? Normally I put up a UM and U-bolt it on, but my customer would like a flat-mount solution. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I repeat, Who is STRICTLY legal 100%?
Thank you, Tim for agreeing with me. -m- Tim Kerns wrote: Ok... we've been down this road before. STOP NOW, There is no need to rip WISPA apart AGAIN over this issue. This is the general list and all of these messages are open to everyone through Google search. This continued debate on certification will only in the end destroy WISPA. I ask again STOP IT NOW. Tim CV-Access, Inc. - Original Message - From: Michael Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: [WISPA] I repeat, Who is STRICTLY legal 100%? It looks like the list is about to go down the finger pointing exercise of legalities, perceptions of legality, and interpretations of minutia. That is probably not a good idea so in the true tradition of casting the first stone, let me say this: If you are absolutely certain that you are absolutely legal and you are willing to make that assertion on list then you have a dog in this fight. Otherwise you probably done have a dog in this fight. :) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Mike, I see no evidence of anyone twisting your words. As I see it, problems of mis-interpretation of your words have come up because your statement that there will be certified option is so general that it omits specific details thereby almost guaranteeing that the unmentioned specific details will be misunderstood and/or mis-interpreted. I respectfully suggest that you consider one of the following three options. 1. Provide specific details about FCC certified Mikrotik-based systems that you know for a fact will soon be offered by one of more vendors. 2. If you are a WISPA member, let's take this discussion over WISPA's Certification email list which is a members-only list. 3. Contact me via phone or email (off-list) and we can discuss more specific details about the process of obtaining FCC 3650 MHz certification. Best Regards, jack Mike Hammett wrote: I...I give up talking to you. You take what I say and twist it horribly as if I am some renegade pioneer of MT. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Mike, This does not make everyone using a Mikrotik system legal though. It is not just as easy as saying I use the same components in my system as the one certified so I am legal. In case you are unaware, this would also include the enclosure and the power supply even then you still need the documentation from the entity that certified the system. The system must be exactly the same soup to nuts. Again for you to say that an FCC Certified Mikrotik System would make any Mikrotik legality a non issue is an unreasonable statement. Below is a link that might be helpful; http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-56A1.pdf Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: Well, it will be a non issue because there will be certified option. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike, That is a big IF there. As I said before I don't see that every single hardware configuration deployed using Mikrotik will be covered. So to say that Mikrotik FCC System Certification will be a non issue is not a reasonable statement to make. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: IIRC, if everything is the same, you can label it as containing X, Y, Z and be compliant. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I have to agree that even if there is a certified system in the works this will not make ALL Mikrotik installations certified. There will most likely be some uncertified gear left in the field as I don't believe that some wireless providers will rip out there existing hardware to comply with system certification. I also don't think it will be a non issue anytime soon. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
[WISPA] 3.65 radio wish list
I thought it might be interesting for all involved to discuss what we as WISPs are looking for in 3.65 radios. As I see it, we can expect to either get radios that are much the same as we currently have, but operate in a different spectrum or something different that makes best use of this unique spectrum. In our case, we have had an experimental 3.65 license for some time and had a chance to understand the propagation properties of the spectrum and how it relates to the existing spectrum we have access to. In our markets, trees are a huge factor limiting our LOS coverage. Unfortunately, we found that 3.65 doesn't get us much help when it comes to NLOS through foliage. We did however find that NLOS through buildings worked significantly better than with 5.8. This can be a combination of factors that I might not fully understand, but nevertheless these findings make us very interested in an urban NLOS 3.65 radio. What I would like to see is for a radio vendor to provide a PtMP system that operates in 3.65 and has CPE radios designed for indoor NLOS deployment. I already have a solution for outdoor urban use. And, through the use of equipment like what is offered by Orthogon we have the ability to deploy indoor NLOS using 5.8, but it is expense and less than ideal. If any vendors are looking along these lines let me know. As I stated previously, we have a 3.65 experimental license that we could beta test the equipment with. Additionally, we are planning a large 3.65 deployment throughout our markets as soon as equipment becomes available, so we can commit to large qualities of radios. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Matt The reason we like stuff MT and Star, it works and we like it. The future is arriving, there will be lots of new certified Star and MT products to choose from. http://forums.star-os.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67stc=1d=1180571824 That one is called the Can-O-War. See it looks like a canopy, but is actually a Star War board. hence, can of war! Matt Liotta wrote: Smith, Rick wrote: From what I've seen to date; Alvarion / Canopy / Trango backhaul equipment - they are merely (sometimes fancy) bridges. I don't know about all vendors, but Canopy APs certainly can be configured to route. Additionally, the Deliberant radios I have seen do routing as well. I only bring them up because they make use of miniPCI cards for their radios as well. I prefer to route. Everything. Let's not start a war there, either pls. Not looking for a war; just an answer to my earlier question in regard to choosing an uncertified MT system vs a certified system. Ubiquity does NOT have to certify the whole system - they have to cert the miniPCI card - which I believe is already done. The whole system is up to whoever wants to certify it and then sell it as a system. Alright, but then you are still stuck waiting on someone to certify a system. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
George Rogato wrote: Matt The reason we like stuff MT and Star, it works and we like it. I'm glad it works and that you like it because you like it. That doesn't really help me understand why one would choose MT over something else. I mean there has to be something beyond that you like it if you are willing to use it in favor of something else that is certified. I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? In a word, horsepower. I am considering taking a collection for the fee required to have the a Microtik based system certified. I wish one of the bigger players out there would just DO this. I would pay a PREMIUM for an AP with the horsepower and features that the Microtik offers. ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
I said this several months ago and I'll say it again MT and Star-OS are used because of price. Period. If the certified systems come out and are double the price (so $400 for a RB532 type solution compared with $200 now) how many people are going to start using the certified ones? Very few. Even if it's only $50 extra, are people really going to pay that much extra when so far they haven't worried about it? Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: George Rogato wrote: Matt The reason we like stuff MT and Star, it works and we like it. I'm glad it works and that you like it because you like it. That doesn't really help me understand why one would choose MT over something else. I mean there has to be something beyond that you like it if you are willing to use it in favor of something else that is certified. I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Ryan, Currently a typical MT AP with wireless card, outdoor case, pigtails, etc. with an RB532 board is going to be about $350ish without antenna. Can you give an example of what this PREMIUM price is that you are willing to pay for the same system certified? Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? In a word, horsepower. I am considering taking a collection for the fee required to have the a Microtik based system certified. I wish one of the bigger players out there would just DO this. I would pay a PREMIUM for an AP with the horsepower and features that the Microtik offers. ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
Ok. I've said this before. On a home PC, I don't need to certify a Dell computer running Win2k and a Netgear wireless card to be FCC legal, so why is Mikrotik any different? Almost everything computerized is ALL modular certified. What makes homebrewed any different? Is a Dell/HP/clone PC running Linux and a Netgear wireless card breaking the law? Does that Netgear need a cert for every OS supported? I remember this FCC modular computer battle in the early 90s. Also, many brands of wireless cards actually ask what governing domain is to be installed, again not unlike Mikrotik. I believe everything Mikrotik is running on as long as the components meet modular FCC cert , would be governed as PCs and not as dedicated electronics like Canopy or Trango. In the case of a laptop running a miniPCI card, if the local Best Buy puts a different brand in on a Linux OS, did they break the law and should be fined for violating Part 15? Is running Linux illegal by the FCC? -Original Message- From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 7:17 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: RE: [WISPA] MT Babble I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? In a word, horsepower. I am considering taking a collection for the fee required to have the a Microtik based system certified. I wish one of the bigger players out there would just DO this. I would pay a PREMIUM for an AP with the horsepower and features that the Microtik offers-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
I will pay $500 over the price of an unlicensed Microtik if I can get one with the cute little FCC sticker on it. Did you hear that kids? $500 over the MSRP! I have 8 APs (only one is a Microtik at this time) that I would like to replace. I think I paid $185 for the RB500 with the software pre-installed, $8 for the pigtail and $45 for the small electrical box it is sealed in. So around $250 for the whole thing including shipping and tax. I am offering to pay $750 (300% markup based on MSRP!) for this item with the cute little FCC sticker on the box. I will buy 8 from whomever can present this to me. And I am a SMALL operator! Who wants to sell this to me? My credit card is standing by. ryan - The troll trying to kill this thread. :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Ryan, Currently a typical MT AP with wireless card, outdoor case, pigtails, etc. with an RB532 board is going to be about $350ish without antenna. Can you give an example of what this PREMIUM price is that you are willing to pay for the same system certified? Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? In a word, horsepower. I am considering taking a collection for the fee required to have the a Microtik based system certified. I wish one of the bigger players out there would just DO this. I would pay a PREMIUM for an AP with the horsepower and features that the Microtik offers. ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost?
? ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost?
Depends on the amount of lab-time testing needed. You can minimize test time (and cost) when you use a wireless card that has already received a modular approval from the card manufacturer along with a clean single-board computer (SBC) motherboard, a clean power supply plus software that dis-allows operation (or excess radiation) outside of the U.S. band. That combination costs about $3219 to certify. I recommend certifying with a range of antennas (the entire range of antenna types that you're likely to use). Hit me off-line for more detailed info. jack D. Ryan Spott wrote: ? ryan -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
I found the FCC document regarding the modular certifications. If Mikrotik would submit (or someone submitted on their behalf, for them) their boards and representative power supplies, for FCC testing, and passed (no peripheral cards, they are SEPARATELY tested for FCC compliance by the manufacturer, it's in this document), they would become PCs and fall under the 1996 FCC order listed below. If we used VIA, or any number of already modular certified FCC motherboards, it would all fall under this order. Cases are not FCC certified only motherboards, peripherals and power supplies. So take a motherboard, power supply and a peripheral wireless card, put it into a NEMA enclosure, add an antenna that's certified for use with that wireless card. How is that not FCC legal? It mentions an FCC DoC sticker some of us may be familiar with: Trade NameModel Number FCC Assembled from Tested Components (Complete System Not Tested) I have a Compaq Presario 5100NX, Dell Dimension 8100 and Dimension 2400 in my repair department right now, NO FCC stickers on the cases. Part 15 as of May 4, 2007: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/part15-5-4-07.pdf Listed on these pages: Page 12-15: Regarding labelling for Declaration of Conformity, home-build and kit computers. Page 28 - Section 15.101 Equipment authorization of unintentional radiators. See type of device, class B personal computers and peripherals: Declaration of Conformity. Page 29 subsections C and D - Personal Computers shall be authorized in accordance with one of the following methods And of course, on page 86 the very vague modular transmitter section regarding unique antenna connectors, shielded RF components (I believe Ubiquity has cards like this). I did a search in this document for the following words: operating system 0 results. software 2 results - neither of which have to do with operating systems. Maybe this will be dismissed as a bad interpretation, but Mikrotik looks suspiciously like a PC operating system, much like Windows or Linux. Not a modular transmitter device like an AP. I can put a CD in my home computer and load Mikrotik on it. So how is the device a Mikrotik OS runs on not considered a PC? Just some food for thought; with the information that backs it up right from the FCC site. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
One correction, I had originally specified the 1996 order regarding this, but further research lead me to the full updated part 15. So disregard the 1996 rule amendment reference below, it was a referring to a 1996 order that amended part 15. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Ratcliffe Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:58 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] MT Babble I found the FCC document regarding the modular certifications. If Mikrotik would submit (or someone submitted on their behalf, for them) their boards and representative power supplies, for FCC testing, and passed (no peripheral cards, they are SEPARATELY tested for FCC compliance by the manufacturer, it's in this document), they would become PCs and fall under the 1996 FCC order listed below. If we used VIA, or any number of already modular certified FCC motherboards, it would all fall under this order. Cases are not FCC certified only motherboards, peripherals and power supplies. So take a motherboard, power supply and a peripheral wireless card, put it into a NEMA enclosure, add an antenna that's certified for use with that wireless card. How is that not FCC legal? It mentions an FCC DoC sticker some of us may be familiar with: Trade NameModel Number FCC Assembled from Tested Components (Complete System Not Tested) I have a Compaq Presario 5100NX, Dell Dimension 8100 and Dimension 2400 in my repair department right now, NO FCC stickers on the cases. Part 15 as of May 4, 2007: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/part15-5-4-07.pdf Listed on these pages: Page 12-15: Regarding labelling for Declaration of Conformity, home-build and kit computers. Page 28 - Section 15.101 Equipment authorization of unintentional radiators. See type of device, class B personal computers and peripherals: Declaration of Conformity. Page 29 subsections C and D - Personal Computers shall be authorized in accordance with one of the following methods And of course, on page 86 the very vague modular transmitter section regarding unique antenna connectors, shielded RF components (I believe Ubiquity has cards like this). I did a search in this document for the following words: operating system 0 results. software 2 results - neither of which have to do with operating systems. Maybe this will be dismissed as a bad interpretation, but Mikrotik looks suspiciously like a PC operating system, much like Windows or Linux. Not a modular transmitter device like an AP. I can put a CD in my home computer and load Mikrotik on it. So how is the device a Mikrotik OS runs on not considered a PC? Just some food for thought; with the information that backs it up right from the FCC site. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/832 - Release Date: 6/4/2007 6:43 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Doug, You have to certify the system as a whole INCLUDING THE ENCLOSURE and the power supply and you cannot deviate from the configuration that was certified. This cannot be compared to a PC because that is a different certification. PC's are unintentional radiators the systems in question are intentional radiators. Here is the link for more info on Modular Transmitters; http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-56A1.pdf Here is a link to ADI and their certified system; http://www.adiengineering.com/products/data/FCC-Whitepaper-R100.pdf Regards, Dawn DiPietro Doug Ratcliffe wrote: I found the FCC document regarding the modular certifications. If Mikrotik would submit (or someone submitted on their behalf, for them) their boards and representative power supplies, for FCC testing, and passed (no peripheral cards, they are SEPARATELY tested for FCC compliance by the manufacturer, it's in this document), they would become PCs and fall under the 1996 FCC order listed below. If we used VIA, or any number of already modular certified FCC motherboards, it would all fall under this order. Cases are not FCC certified only motherboards, peripherals and power supplies. So take a motherboard, power supply and a peripheral wireless card, put it into a NEMA enclosure, add an antenna that's certified for use with that wireless card. How is that not FCC legal? It mentions an FCC DoC sticker some of us may be familiar with: Trade NameModel Number FCC Assembled from Tested Components (Complete System Not Tested) I have a Compaq Presario 5100NX, Dell Dimension 8100 and Dimension 2400 in my repair department right now, NO FCC stickers on the cases. Part 15 as of May 4, 2007: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/part15-5-4-07.pdf Listed on these pages: Page 12-15: Regarding labelling for Declaration of Conformity, home-build and kit computers. Page 28 - Section 15.101 Equipment authorization of unintentional radiators. See type of device, class B personal computers and peripherals: Declaration of Conformity. Page 29 subsections C and D - Personal Computers shall be authorized in accordance with one of the following methods And of course, on page 86 the very vague modular transmitter section regarding unique antenna connectors, shielded RF components (I believe Ubiquity has cards like this). I did a search in this document for the following words: operating system 0 results. software 2 results - neither of which have to do with operating systems. Maybe this will be dismissed as a bad interpretation, but Mikrotik looks suspiciously like a PC operating system, much like Windows or Linux. Not a modular transmitter device like an AP. I can put a CD in my home computer and load Mikrotik on it. So how is the device a Mikrotik OS runs on not considered a PC? Just some food for thought; with the information that backs it up right from the FCC site. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
Hey Michael, Dawn's right. Don't get into an argument on all this here, again. In order to be a LABELLED CERTIFIED system, you take antennas, jumpers, pigtails, minipci cards (already separately cert'd most likely), RB's, ENCLOSURE, POE device, and anything else that's necessary to that system running, and they throw it in a quiet room and put it through its paces. If all falls within the proper bands for operation as you intended, you get the right to copy that device and slap pretty fcc labels on it and sell it as certified. If not, fix it, resubmit it and try again. Repeat until certified. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Erskine Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Dawn; I think you are reading the letter of the law and not understanding the reality. An RB153 is *NOT* an intentional radiator any more than the PC you mention is an intentional radiator. The cards which are placed in the RB153 are intentional radiators just like the cards you put in that PC you mention. You are trying to make an Apples vs Oranges comparison out of an Apples to Apples situation. In other words you are incorrect in your reading of the rules. -m- Dawn DiPietro wrote: Doug, You have to certify the system as a whole INCLUDING THE ENCLOSURE and the power supply and you cannot deviate from the configuration that was certified. This cannot be compared to a PC because that is a different certification. PC's are unintentional radiators the systems in question are intentional radiators. Here is the link for more info on Modular Transmitters; http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-56A1.pdf Here is a link to ADI and their certified system; http://www.adiengineering.com/products/data/FCC-Whitepaper-R100.pdf Regards, Dawn DiPietro Doug Ratcliffe wrote: I found the FCC document regarding the modular certifications. If Mikrotik would submit (or someone submitted on their behalf, for them) their boards and representative power supplies, for FCC testing, and passed (no peripheral cards, they are SEPARATELY tested for FCC compliance by the manufacturer, it's in this document), they would become PCs and fall under the 1996 FCC order listed below. If we used VIA, or any number of already modular certified FCC motherboards, it would all fall under this order. Cases are not FCC certified only motherboards, peripherals and power supplies. So take a motherboard, power supply and a peripheral wireless card, put it into a NEMA enclosure, add an antenna that's certified for use with that wireless card. How is that not FCC legal? It mentions an FCC DoC sticker some of us may be familiar with: Trade Name Model Number FCC Assembled fromTested Components (Complete System Not Tested) I have a Compaq Presario 5100NX, Dell Dimension 8100 and Dimension 2400 in my repair department right now, NO FCC stickers on the cases. Part 15 as of May 4, 2007: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/part15-5-4-07.pdf Listed on these pages: Page 12-15: Regarding labelling for Declaration of Conformity, home-build and kit computers. Page 28 - Section 15.101 Equipment authorization of unintentional radiators. See type of device, class B personal computers and peripherals: Declaration of Conformity. Page 29 subsections C and D - Personal Computers shall be authorized in accordance with one of the following methods And of course, on page 86 the very vague modular transmitter section regarding unique antenna connectors, shielded RF components (I believe Ubiquity has cards like this). I did a search in this document for the following words: operating system 0 results. software 2 results - neither of which have to do with operating systems. Maybe this will be dismissed as a bad interpretation, but Mikrotik looks suspiciously like a PC operating system, much like Windows or Linux. Not a modular transmitter device like an AP. I can put a CD in my home computer and load Mikrotik on it. So how is the device a Mikrotik OS runs on not considered a PC? Just some food for thought; with the information that backs it up right from the FCC site. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost?
So are we saying that it would be under 5K to get MT certified with different antennas? If thats the case why wouldnt they have done it? Seems like they would have a much bigger market if the stuff was certified. Joe-Original Message-From: "Jack Unger" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent 6/10/2007 7:17:42 PMTo: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.orgSubject: Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost?Depends on the amount of lab-time testing needed.You can minimize test time (and cost) when you use a wireless card that has already received a modular approval from the card manufacturer along with a "clean" single-board computer (SBC) motherboard, a clean power supply plus software that dis-allows operation (or excess radiation) outside of the U.S. band. That combination costs about $3219 to certify.I recommend certifying with a range of antennas (the entire range of antenna types that you're likely to use).Hit me off-line for more detailed info.jackD. Ryan Spott wrote: ? ryan -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.FCC License # PG-12-25133Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-TroubleshootingFCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service ProvidersPhone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
The problem is the current RB532 will NEVER pass FCC certifications. It emits too much noise in the 150mHz and 400mHz areas to ever pass any certification. Maybe their new boards are different? Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: I will pay $500 over the price of an unlicensed Microtik if I can get one with the cute little FCC sticker on it. Did you hear that kids? $500 over the MSRP! I have 8 APs (only one is a Microtik at this time) that I would like to replace. I think I paid $185 for the RB500 with the software pre-installed, $8 for the pigtail and $45 for the small electrical box it is sealed in. So around $250 for the whole thing including shipping and tax. I am offering to pay $750 (300% markup based on MSRP!) for this item with the cute little FCC sticker on the box. I will buy 8 from whomever can present this to me. And I am a SMALL operator! Who wants to sell this to me? My credit card is standing by. ryan - The troll trying to kill this thread. :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Ryan, Currently a "typical" MT AP with wireless card, outdoor case, pigtails, etc. with an RB532 board is going to be about $350ish without antenna. Can you give an example of what this PREMIUM price is that you are willing to pay for the same system certified? Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? In a word, horsepower. I am considering taking a collection for the fee required to have the a Microtik based system certified. I wish one of the bigger players out there would just DO this. I would pay a PREMIUM for an AP with the horsepower and features that the Microtik offers. ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost?
The current 532 board will NOT pass FCC certs. Too much noise coming directly off the board at 150mHz and 400mHz ranges. Thus the reason it has never been FCC tested. Travis Microserv joelaura wrote: So are we saying that it would be under 5K to get MT certified with different antennas? If thats the case why wouldnt they have done it? Seems like they would have a much bigger market if the stuff was certified. Joe -Original Message- From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent 6/10/2007 7:17:42 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost? Depends on the amount of lab-time testing needed. You can minimize test time (and cost) when you use a wireless card that has already received a modular approval from the card manufacturer along with a clean single-board computer (SBC) motherboard, a clean power supply plus software that dis-allows operation (or excess radiation) outside of the U.S. band. That combination costs about $3219 to certify. I recommend certifying with a range of antennas (the entire range of antenna types that you're likely to use). Hit me off-line for more detailed info. jack D. Ryan Spott wrote: ? ryan -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost?
well yeah, but aren't those Ethernet emissions? I had trouble interfering with HAM repeaters until I went to 10 mbps... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost? The current 532 board will NOT pass FCC certs. Too much noise coming directly off the board at 150mHz and 400mHz ranges. Thus the reason it has never been FCC tested. Travis Microserv joelaura wrote: So are we saying that it would be under 5K to get MT certified with different antennas? If thats the case why wouldnt they have done it? Seems like they would have a much bigger market if the stuff was certified. Joe -Original Message- From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent 6/10/2007 7:17:42 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost? Depends on the amount of lab-time testing needed. You can minimize test time (and cost) when you use a wireless card that has already received a modular approval from the card manufacturer along with a clean single-board computer (SBC) motherboard, a clean power supply plus software that dis-allows operation (or excess radiation) outside of the U.S. band. That combination costs about $3219 to certify. I recommend certifying with a range of antennas (the entire range of antenna types that you're likely to use). Hit me off-line for more detailed info. jack D. Ryan Spott wrote: ? ryan -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost?
No. It is emissions from the DC to DC converter on the board. With no cards and no ethernet connection, using just a power supply, it can emit up to +30db of noise in both of those bands. I have setup several tests with our spectrum analyzer. The board uses a very cheap DC to DC converter. We shut down several HAM operators and even the regional ambulance two-way radio system (and our tower was 300ft away from their tower). We switched to 18v PoE instead of 48v PoE and that stops 90% of the noise at 450mHz. However, there is still substantial noise at 145mHz, but the HAM guys can work around that. The board will never pass FCC certs. Mikrotik knows it, thus the reason they never responded to emails and they _deleted_ the message thread on their forum that I created over a year ago. :( Travis Microserv Smith, Rick wrote: well yeah, but aren't those Ethernet emissions? I had trouble interfering with HAM repeaters until I went to 10 mbps... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost? The current 532 board will NOT pass FCC certs. Too much noise coming directly off the board at 150mHz and 400mHz ranges. Thus the reason it has never been FCC tested. Travis Microserv joelaura wrote: So are we saying that it would be under 5K to get MT certified with different antennas? If thats the case why wouldnt they have done it? Seems like they would have a much bigger market if the stuff was certified. Joe -Original Message- From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent 6/10/2007 7:17:42 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost? Depends on the amount of lab-time testing needed. You can minimize test time (and cost) when you use a wireless card that has already received a modular approval from the card manufacturer along with a clean single-board computer (SBC) motherboard, a clean power supply plus software that dis-allows operation (or excess radiation) outside of the U.S. band. That combination costs about $3219 to certify. I recommend certifying with a range of antennas (the entire range of antenna types that you're likely to use). Hit me off-line for more detailed info. jack D. Ryan Spott wrote: ? ryan -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 3.65 radio wish list
Matt, What gear have you tested Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 6:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 radio wish list I thought it might be interesting for all involved to discuss what we as WISPs are looking for in 3.65 radios. As I see it, we can expect to either get radios that are much the same as we currently have, but operate in a different spectrum or something different that makes best use of this unique spectrum. In our case, we have had an experimental 3.65 license for some time and had a chance to understand the propagation properties of the spectrum and how it relates to the existing spectrum we have access to. In our markets, trees are a huge factor limiting our LOS coverage. Unfortunately, we found that 3.65 doesn't get us much help when it comes to NLOS through foliage. We did however find that NLOS through buildings worked significantly better than with 5.8. This can be a combination of factors that I might not fully understand, but nevertheless these findings make us very interested in an urban NLOS 3.65 radio. What I would like to see is for a radio vendor to provide a PtMP system that operates in 3.65 and has CPE radios designed for indoor NLOS deployment. I already have a solution for outdoor urban use. And, through the use of equipment like what is offered by Orthogon we have the ability to deploy indoor NLOS using 5.8, but it is expense and less than ideal. If any vendors are looking along these lines let me know. As I stated previously, we have a 3.65 experimental license that we could beta test the equipment with. Additionally, we are planning a large 3.65 deployment throughout our markets as soon as equipment becomes available, so we can commit to large qualities of radios. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost?
I wonder if the new revision 5 RB 532's addressed this issue? On 6/10/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No. It is emissions from the DC to DC converter on the board. With no cards and no ethernet connection, using just a power supply, it can emit up to +30db of noise in both of those bands. I have setup several tests with our spectrum analyzer. The board uses a very cheap DC to DC converter. We shut down several HAM operators and even the regional ambulance two-way radio system (and our tower was 300ft away from their tower). We switched to 18v PoE instead of 48v PoE and that stops 90% of the noise at 450mHz. However, there is still substantial noise at 145mHz, but the HAM guys can work around that. The board will never pass FCC certs. Mikrotik knows it, thus the reason they never responded to emails and they _deleted_ the message thread on their forum that I created over a year ago. :( Travis Microserv Smith, Rick wrote: well yeah, but aren't those Ethernet emissions? I had trouble interfering with HAM repeaters until I went to 10 mbps... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost? The current 532 board will NOT pass FCC certs. Too much noise coming directly off the board at 150mHz and 400mHz ranges. Thus the reason it has never been FCC tested. Travis Microserv joelaura wrote: So are we saying that it would be under 5K to get MT certified with different antennas? If thats the case why wouldnt they have done it? Seems like they would have a much bigger market if the stuff was certified. Joe -Original Message- From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent 6/10/2007 7:17:42 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much does FCC certification cost? Depends on the amount of lab-time testing needed. You can minimize test time (and cost) when you use a wireless card that has already received a modular approval from the card manufacturer along with a clean single-board computer (SBC) motherboard, a clean power supply plus software that dis-allows operation (or excess radiation) outside of the U.S. band. That combination costs about $3219 to certify. I recommend certifying with a range of antennas (the entire range of antenna types that you're likely to use). Hit me off-line for more detailed info. jack D. Ryan Spott wrote: ? ryan -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
George Rogato wrote: Matt there is a tool for every job. Just because someone uses MT or Star does not mean they don't use canopy, trango or alvarion as well. And nobody needs to explain why. I am well aware of that, which is why we use so many different vendors' radios. We first started with Canopy on a recommendation and over time various operators (mostly WISPA members) introduced us to other vendors' radios. Every time we learned about a new vendor from the experiences of others. I respect the experience of my peers and find it quite useful in vendor selection. Why everyone is so defensive about MT I don't know. I personally don't care what equipment anyone uses. I am just curious why people use it in case it would be useful for us. But, no one seems willing to answer that. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 radio wish list
Gino Villarini wrote: Matt, What gear have you tested We were asked not to share any vendor information as part of our testing. However, one could always read the last update to our experimental license and see it was for use with Aperto equipment. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Travis Johnson wrote: I said this several months ago and I'll say it again MT and Star-OS are used because of price. Period. Thats right, MT and Star are priced to the point a wisp can make the market happen a whole lot faster than other more expensive solutions. The guys that cherry pick T-1 prices will never understand the pressures the wisp who is trying to bring broadband to the 40.00 market has. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
The issue of certification is a simple one. Certs are only good for the assembler or complete system manufacturer. If you assemble your own, you need to get your own certs. MT and Star do not sell assembled products, yet. hence you can't buy their certified system, you have to make your own. We do have a cert list at wispa, contact Jack Unger if your a paid wispa member. George D. Ryan Spott wrote: I will pay $500 over the price of an unlicensed Microtik if I can get one with the cute little FCC sticker on it. Did you hear that kids? $500 over the MSRP! I have 8 APs (only one is a Microtik at this time) that I would like to replace. I think I paid $185 for the RB500 with the software pre-installed, $8 for the pigtail and $45 for the small electrical box it is sealed in. So around $250 for the whole thing including shipping and tax. I am offering to pay $750 (300% markup based on MSRP!) for this item with the cute little FCC sticker on the box. I will buy 8 from whomever can present this to me. And I am a SMALL operator! Who wants to sell this to me? My credit card is standing by. ryan - The troll trying to kill this thread. :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Ryan, Currently a typical MT AP with wireless card, outdoor case, pigtails, etc. with an RB532 board is going to be about $350ish without antenna. Can you give an example of what this PREMIUM price is that you are willing to pay for the same system certified? Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? In a word, horsepower. I am considering taking a collection for the fee required to have the a Microtik based system certified. I wish one of the bigger players out there would just DO this. I would pay a PREMIUM for an AP with the horsepower and features that the Microtik offers. ryan -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
Depends on how much the FCC's Notice Of Apparent Liability (aka fine) is for those of you who are rolling your own. If it is enough, and the word gets around, I'll bet most of you will realize that the certification thing isn't a joke like many treat it. The FCC doesn't play around. I know one operator who was fined $8,000.00 for having his tower light out. His flasher device had been smoked by lightning. I have also seen them circulating at computer shows inspecting custom built PCs and issuing notices for builders using uncertified assemblies (mostly those flip top cases when they first came out). I'm glad to see at least one WISP I know who was rolling his own starting to talk about using certified equipment. Personally, I think MT makes pretty decent router software and it is reasonably priced. We have it at all our hotspots, however it is running on a real, store-bought PC. I wouldn't touch any MT radio with a 10 foot pole. The total cost of building an MT access point or CPE isn't really much less than some of the FCC Certified Deliberant gear that is out now. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 6:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble If the certified systems come out and are double the price (so $400 for a RB532 type solution compared with $200 now) how many people are going to start using the certified ones? Very few. Even if it's only $50 extra, are people really going to pay that much extra when so far they haven't worried about it? Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: George Rogato wrote: Matt The reason we like stuff MT and Star, it works and we like it. I'm glad it works and that you like it because you like it. That doesn't really help me understand why one would choose MT over something else. I mean there has to be something beyond that you like it if you are willing to use it in favor of something else that is certified. I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
How was it in the 118-136 band? That is the one that FAA considers most critical. (FAA has their own folks and control their own band) It isn't taken very lightly when anything interferes in that band. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble The problem is the current RB532 will NEVER pass FCC certifications. It emits too much noise in the 150mHz and 400mHz areas to ever pass any certification. Maybe their new boards are different? Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: I will pay $500 over the price of an unlicensed Microtik if I can get one with the cute little FCC sticker on it. Did you hear that kids? $500 over the MSRP! I have 8 APs (only one is a Microtik at this time) that I would like to replace. I think I paid $185 for the RB500 with the software pre-installed, $8 for the pigtail and $45 for the small electrical box it is sealed in. So around $250 for the whole thing including shipping and tax. I am offering to pay $750 (300% markup based on MSRP!) for this item with the cute little FCC sticker on the box. I will buy 8 from whomever can present this to me. And I am a SMALL operator! Who wants to sell this to me? My credit card is standing by. ryan - The troll trying to kill this thread. :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Ryan, Currently a typical MT AP with wireless card, outdoor case, pigtails, etc. with an RB532 board is going to be about $350ish without antenna. Can you give an example of what this PREMIUM price is that you are willing to pay for the same system certified? Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? In a word, horsepower. I am considering taking a collection for the fee required to have the a Microtik based system certified. I wish one of the bigger players out there would just DO this. I would pay a PREMIUM for an AP with the horsepower and features that the Microtik offers. ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
So if I buy all of the parts for a fully functioning AP and get it certified and then sell this complete system to other people I am good to go? (like could I buy a Zcomax card and throw it in an attractive radome and certify that system I would legal!) Cool. ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble The issue of certification is a simple one. Certs are only good for the assembler or complete system manufacturer. If you assemble your own, you need to get your own certs. MT and Star do not sell assembled products, yet. hence you can't buy their certified system, you have to make your own. We do have a cert list at wispa, contact Jack Unger if your a paid wispa member. George D. Ryan Spott wrote: I will pay $500 over the price of an unlicensed Microtik if I can get one with the cute little FCC sticker on it. Did you hear that kids? $500 over the MSRP! I have 8 APs (only one is a Microtik at this time) that I would like to replace. I think I paid $185 for the RB500 with the software pre-installed, $8 for the pigtail and $45 for the small electrical box it is sealed in. So around $250 for the whole thing including shipping and tax. I am offering to pay $750 (300% markup based on MSRP!) for this item with the cute little FCC sticker on the box. I will buy 8 from whomever can present this to me. And I am a SMALL operator! Who wants to sell this to me? My credit card is standing by. ryan - The troll trying to kill this thread. :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Ryan, Currently a typical MT AP with wireless card, outdoor case, pigtails, etc. with an RB532 board is going to be about $350ish without antenna. Can you give an example of what this PREMIUM price is that you are willing to pay for the same system certified? Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? In a word, horsepower. I am considering taking a collection for the fee required to have the a Microtik based system certified. I wish one of the bigger players out there would just DO this. I would pay a PREMIUM for an AP with the horsepower and features that the Microtik offers. ryan -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
I disagree with that. I can get a nice Teletronics AP for about $220. My last MT solution ran closer to $500. I tried MT (lost one of two out there in the first big storm we got) because I was going to try a solution that would do routing at the ap. Glad I didn't go that route! I'd still be working to get customers back online. It was sure nice to have all of the test modes that the MT has though. Pretty cool stuff. marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble I said this several months ago and I'll say it again MT and Star-OS are used because of price. Period. If the certified systems come out and are double the price (so $400 for a RB532 type solution compared with $200 now) how many people are going to start using the certified ones? Very few. Even if it's only $50 extra, are people really going to pay that much extra when so far they haven't worried about it? Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: George Rogato wrote: Matt The reason we like stuff MT and Star, it works and we like it. I'm glad it works and that you like it because you like it. That doesn't really help me understand why one would choose MT over something else. I mean there has to be something beyond that you like it if you are willing to use it in favor of something else that is certified. I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Yes, if you send an AP to the lab and get it certified then you can use it yourself and sell it to others. You will be legal and everyone who buys it from you and uses it would be legal. The FCC could drop in and inspect your equipment and you would simply point to the sticker which shows your FCC ID number and they should congratulate you and go away; no nasty fines and no embarrassing shutdowns of your WISP. jack D. Ryan Spott wrote: So if I buy all of the parts for a fully functioning AP and get it certified and then sell this complete system to other people I am good to go? (like could I buy a Zcomax card and throw it in an attractive radome and certify that system I would legal!) Cool. ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble The issue of certification is a simple one. Certs are only good for the assembler or complete system manufacturer. If you assemble your own, you need to get your own certs. MT and Star do not sell assembled products, yet. hence you can't buy their certified system, you have to make your own. We do have a cert list at wispa, contact Jack Unger if your a paid wispa member. George D. Ryan Spott wrote: I will pay $500 over the price of an unlicensed Microtik if I can get one with the cute little FCC sticker on it. Did you hear that kids? $500 over the MSRP! I have 8 APs (only one is a Microtik at this time) that I would like to replace. I think I paid $185 for the RB500 with the software pre-installed, $8 for the pigtail and $45 for the small electrical box it is sealed in. So around $250 for the whole thing including shipping and tax. I am offering to pay $750 (300% markup based on MSRP!) for this item with the cute little FCC sticker on the box. I will buy 8 from whomever can present this to me. And I am a SMALL operator! Who wants to sell this to me? My credit card is standing by. ryan - The troll trying to kill this thread. :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Ryan, Currently a typical MT AP with wireless card, outdoor case, pigtails, etc. with an RB532 board is going to be about $350ish without antenna. Can you give an example of what this PREMIUM price is that you are willing to pay for the same system certified? Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? In a word, horsepower. I am considering taking a collection for the fee required to have the a Microtik based system certified. I wish one of the bigger players out there would just DO this. I would pay a PREMIUM for an AP with the horsepower and features that the Microtik offers. ryan -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
SR2 AP: SR2 - 100 532a - 160 enclosure - 30 POE - 25 Ethernet passthru - $7 Pigtail - $15 Jumper - $10 Antenna - omni - $35 Total - About $400. BUT you've got PPPOE / VPN / Routing / everything else built right into the AP. Radius server / client now too... filtering... queueing... QOS... If you're losing them due to storms, it's either weatherproofing trouble on your part or grounding problem (again your part)... I've not lost an MT AP or CPE in a long time due to a storm - previous ones were weatherproofing lessons... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble I disagree with that. I can get a nice Teletronics AP for about $220. My last MT solution ran closer to $500. I tried MT (lost one of two out there in the first big storm we got) because I was going to try a solution that would do routing at the ap. Glad I didn't go that route! I'd still be working to get customers back online. It was sure nice to have all of the test modes that the MT has though. Pretty cool stuff. marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble I said this several months ago and I'll say it again MT and Star-OS are used because of price. Period. If the certified systems come out and are double the price (so $400 for a RB532 type solution compared with $200 now) how many people are going to start using the certified ones? Very few. Even if it's only $50 extra, are people really going to pay that much extra when so far they haven't worried about it? Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: George Rogato wrote: Matt The reason we like stuff MT and Star, it works and we like it. I'm glad it works and that you like it because you like it. That doesn't really help me understand why one would choose MT over something else. I mean there has to be something beyond that you like it if you are willing to use it in favor of something else that is certified. I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Can you use nice and Teletronics in the same sentence? ;) Travis Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I disagree with that. I can get a nice Teletronics AP for about $220. My last MT solution ran closer to $500. I tried MT (lost one of two out there in the first big storm we got) because I was going to try a solution that would do routing at the ap. Glad I didn't go that route! I'd still be working to get customers back online. It was sure nice to have all of the test modes that the MT has though. Pretty cool stuff. marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble I said this several months ago and I'll say it again MT and Star-OS are used because of price. Period. If the certified systems come out and are double the price (so $400 for a RB532 type solution compared with $200 now) how many people are going to start using the certified ones? Very few. Even if it's only $50 extra, are people really going to pay that much extra when so far they haven't worried about it? Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: George Rogato wrote: Matt The reason we like stuff MT and Star, it works and we like it. I'm glad it works and that you like it because you like it. That doesn't really help me understand why one would choose MT over something else. I mean there has to be something beyond that you like it if you are willing to use it in favor of something else that is certified. I don't really care for the whole discussion of whether certified gear should be used or not. Every piece of gear has advantages and disadvantages as well as pricing considerations. Regardless of whether someone is willing to use uncertified gear, I am sure that given the choice between uncertified and certified everyone would choose certified every time. Therefore, uncertified gear is at a disadvantage to other gear, so it must make up for this disadvantage some other way or no one would choose it. What is MT's advantage? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Rick; I think that your opinion is like mine, both informed and experienced. I am perfectly comfortable with my opinion. And I did not get into an argument, or even suggest one was somehow a good idea. That said, let me also say this. If I don't have to have my router boards certified without radios because they are not intentional radiators, then when I add an FCC certified card to them I still don't have to have them certified because they are still what they were. If you tell me that every PC running a pci wireless card has to be certified then I'll go with suggesting that a single board computer, which is designed to be a router, should also be certified like all those PC's otherwise, Rick, I think that both you and Dawn are incorrect. Like I said, I think your opinion is like mine, both informed and experienced. I don't think you, or I, or Dawn, have the last word in this matter and I'd be happy to take the issue up with the FCC to get a reading from them. -m- Smith, Rick wrote: Hey Michael, Dawn's right. Don't get into an argument on all this here, again. In order to be a LABELLED CERTIFIED system, you take antennas, jumpers, pigtails, minipci cards (already separately cert'd most likely), RB's, ENCLOSURE, POE device, and anything else that's necessary to that system running, and they throw it in a quiet room and put it through its paces. If all falls within the proper bands for operation as you intended, you get the right to copy that device and slap pretty fcc labels on it and sell it as certified. If not, fix it, resubmit it and try again. Repeat until certified. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Erskine Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Dawn; I think you are reading the letter of the law and not understanding the reality. An RB153 is *NOT* an intentional radiator any more than the PC you mention is an intentional radiator. The cards which are placed in the RB153 are intentional radiators just like the cards you put in that PC you mention. You are trying to make an Apples vs Oranges comparison out of an Apples to Apples situation. In other words you are incorrect in your reading of the rules. -m- Dawn DiPietro wrote: Doug, You have to certify the system as a whole INCLUDING THE ENCLOSURE and the power supply and you cannot deviate from the configuration that was certified. This cannot be compared to a PC because that is a different certification. PC's are unintentional radiators the systems in question are intentional radiators. Here is the link for more info on Modular Transmitters; http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-56A1.pdf Here is a link to ADI and their certified system; http://www.adiengineering.com/products/data/FCC-Whitepaper-R100.pdf Regards, Dawn DiPietro Doug Ratcliffe wrote: I found the FCC document regarding the modular certifications. If Mikrotik would submit (or someone submitted on their behalf, for them) their boards and representative power supplies, for FCC testing, and passed (no peripheral cards, they are SEPARATELY tested for FCC compliance by the manufacturer, it's in this document), they would become PCs and fall under the 1996 FCC order listed below. If we used VIA, or any number of already modular certified FCC motherboards, it would all fall under this order. Cases are not FCC certified only motherboards, peripherals and power supplies. So take a motherboard, power supply and a peripheral wireless card, put it into a NEMA enclosure, add an antenna that's certified for use with that wireless card. How is that not FCC legal? It mentions an FCC DoC sticker some of us may be familiar with: Trade Name Model Number FCC Assembled fromTested Components (Complete System Not Tested) I have a Compaq Presario 5100NX, Dell Dimension 8100 and Dimension 2400 in my repair department right now, NO FCC stickers on the cases. Part 15 as of May 4, 2007: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/part15-5-4-07.pdf Listed on these pages: Page 12-15: Regarding labelling for Declaration of Conformity, home-build and kit computers. Page 28 - Section 15.101 Equipment authorization of unintentional radiators. See type of device, class B personal computers and peripherals: Declaration of Conformity. Page 29 subsections C and D - Personal Computers shall be authorized in accordance with one of the following methods And of course, on page 86 the very vague modular transmitter section regarding unique antenna connectors, shielded RF components (I believe Ubiquity has cards like this). I did a search in this document for the following words: operating system 0 results. software 2 results - neither of which have to do with operating systems. Maybe this will be dismissed as a bad
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Matt Liotta wrote: George Rogato wrote: Matt there is a tool for every job. Just because someone uses MT or Star does not mean they don't use canopy, trango or alvarion as well. And nobody needs to explain why. I am well aware of that, which is why we use so many different vendors' radios. We first started with Canopy on a recommendation and over time various operators (mostly WISPA members) introduced us to other vendors' radios. Every time we learned about a new vendor from the experiences of others. I respect the experience of my peers and find it quite useful in vendor selection. Why everyone is so defensive about MT I don't know. I personally don't care what equipment anyone uses. I am just curious why people use it in case it would be useful for us. But, no one seems willing to answer that. -Matt Matt, We use it because: 1) I have a passing familiarity with Linux. 2) It is infinitely configurable sort of like IOS but you don't have to spend two days in the manual to do a thirty minute configuration. 3) Give me MT on a router board and I will build you whatever network appliance you want in maybe half a day, but then I have never studied the device. 4) Efficient, it is as efficient as any other device out there. We fully intend to rip out an eight year old network and replace with with 90% MT, hanging on a plywood board on the wall. Why? Well we figure we can cut our power bill by about fifty percent, and when you have two dozen servers in a room, that is a pretty hefty recurring. I can not do that with anything but routerboards and MT, that I know of... I hope that you note my willingness to answer your question. I wouldn't want you to think that MT users were cowards. I'd rather have you believe that they just don't care if your question gets answered. :) -m- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Mike, Your offer to take this issue up with the FCC sounds like a *GREAT *idea. If you do that, I think the information gained would be a very valuable asset to the WISP community. jack Michael Erskine wrote: Rick; I think that your opinion is like mine, both informed and experienced. I am perfectly comfortable with my opinion. And I did not get into an argument, or even suggest one was somehow a good idea. That said, let me also say this. If I don't have to have my router boards certified without radios because they are not intentional radiators, then when I add an FCC certified card to them I still don't have to have them certified because they are still what they were. If you tell me that every PC running a pci wireless card has to be certified then I'll go with suggesting that a single board computer, which is designed to be a router, should also be certified like all those PC's otherwise, Rick, I think that both you and Dawn are incorrect. Like I said, I think your opinion is like mine, both informed and experienced. I don't think you, or I, or Dawn, have the last word in this matter and I'd be happy to take the issue up with the FCC to get a reading from them. -m- Smith, Rick wrote: Hey Michael, Dawn's right. Don't get into an argument on all this here, again. In order to be a LABELLED CERTIFIED system, you take antennas, jumpers, pigtails, minipci cards (already separately cert'd most likely), RB's, ENCLOSURE, POE device, and anything else that's necessary to that system running, and they throw it in a quiet room and put it through its paces. If all falls within the proper bands for operation as you intended, you get the right to copy that device and slap pretty fcc labels on it and sell it as certified. If not, fix it, resubmit it and try again. Repeat until certified. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Erskine Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble Dawn; I think you are reading the letter of the law and not understanding the reality. An RB153 is *NOT* an intentional radiator any more than the PC you mention is an intentional radiator. The cards which are placed in the RB153 are intentional radiators just like the cards you put in that PC you mention. You are trying to make an Apples vs Oranges comparison out of an Apples to Apples situation. In other words you are incorrect in your reading of the rules. -m- Dawn DiPietro wrote: Doug, You have to certify the system as a whole INCLUDING THE ENCLOSURE and the power supply and you cannot deviate from the configuration that was certified. This cannot be compared to a PC because that is a different certification. PC's are unintentional radiators the systems in question are intentional radiators. Here is the link for more info on Modular Transmitters; http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-56A1.pdf Here is a link to ADI and their certified system; http://www.adiengineering.com/products/data/FCC-Whitepaper-R100.pdf Regards, Dawn DiPietro Doug Ratcliffe wrote: I found the FCC document regarding the modular certifications. If Mikrotik would submit (or someone submitted on their behalf, for them) their boards and representative power supplies, for FCC testing, and passed (no peripheral cards, they are SEPARATELY tested for FCC compliance by the manufacturer, it's in this document), they would become PCs and fall under the 1996 FCC order listed below. If we used VIA, or any number of already modular certified FCC motherboards, it would all fall under this order. Cases are not FCC certified only motherboards, peripherals and power supplies. So take a motherboard, power supply and a peripheral wireless earlier dis-cussin pruned -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 01:09 -0400, Michael Erskine wrote: Rick; I think that your opinion is like mine, both informed and experienced. I am perfectly comfortable with my opinion. And I did not get into an argument, or even suggest one was somehow a good idea. That said, let me also say this. If I don't have to have my router boards certified without radios because they are not intentional radiators, then when I add an FCC certified card to them I still don't have to have them certified because they are still what they were. If you tell me that every PC running a pci wireless card has to be certified then I'll go with suggesting that a single board computer, which is designed to be a router, should also be certified like all those PC's otherwise, Rick, I think that both you and Dawn are incorrect. 1) drivers for the wireless card do not allow you to adjust power. 2) comes with a small rubber ducky ant, not a 15db sector. This discussion has come up on this list at probably least a dozen times since I have joined (less than a year ago). MT is not certified, end of chapter. Ask MT they will, most likely, tell you the same thing. Like I said, I think your opinion is like mine, both informed and experienced. I don't think you, or I, or Dawn, have the last word in this matter and I'd be happy to take the issue up with the FCC to get a reading from them. Do this, I would like to read the next chapter, if they can get certified though the PC method, I would take a look at their product. Ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
