date:20070910


Travis Johnson wrote:
And, right now, we have more business than we can keep up with. We did 
114 installs last month and could have done 140+ if we could find 
installers to hire.


While we don't do residential and therefore don't share the same 
concerns mentioned in this thread, the amount of customers we can 
install each month is limited by our installers; not sales. Has anyone 
figured out the magic in getting more installers? From our perspective, 
getting competent installers takes a significant amount of training time 
on what amounts to non-skill based work.


-Matt


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] IPTV


Clint Ricker wrote:

If there was a fairly turnkey solution to providing television service
over your networks (ie IPTV), would you be interested?

We would like to provide business TV services where we would only carry 
a few channels on an ala carte basis. Specifically, we would like to 
offer CNN, MSNBC, FOX News, and CNBC.


-Matt


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] IPTV

We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came to
a conclusion years ago.  Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish?

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 7:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Clint Ricker wrote:
 If there was a fairly turnkey solution to providing television service
 over your networks (ie IPTV), would you be interested?
 
We would like to provide business TV services where we would only carry 
a few channels on an ala carte basis. Specifically, we would like to 
offer CNN, MSNBC, FOX News, and CNBC.

-Matt



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] IPTV

IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold.  You can offer 
thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources.  It doesn't even 
have to be in the traditional channel format.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV



Brad Belton wrote:
We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came 
to

a conclusion years ago.  Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish?

For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with 
you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to 
multiple customers using IP provides different economics.


-Matt


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] IPTV

Correct, we see the same requests.  However, why try re-inventing the wheel
when DirecTV already has a solution in place?  Every time this issue has
popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if
they only wanted CNN or FOX.

It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg
into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we
already have rights.

Granted a cheaper news/weather only channel lineup would be a benefit, but
how much of a benefit?  In our experience the client would just as soon have
the basics from DirecTV that include the channels they are after and be done
with it.

Best,


Brad



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Brad Belton wrote:
 We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came
to
 a conclusion years ago.  Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish?
 
For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with 
you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to 
multiple customers using IP provides different economics.

-Matt



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] IPTV

Agreed, but IMO just not quite ready for prime time . yet.  grin

Best,

Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold.  You can offer 
thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources.  It doesn't even 
have to be in the traditional channel format.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV


 Brad Belton wrote:
 We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came 
 to
 a conclusion years ago.  Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish?

 For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with 
 you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to 
 multiple customers using IP provides different economics.

 -Matt




 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **




 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] IPTV


Brad Belton wrote:

Correct, we see the same requests.  However, why try re-inventing the wheel
when DirecTV already has a solution in place?  Every time this issue has
popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if
they only wanted CNN or FOX.


Are you reselling DirecTV now?


It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg
into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we
already have rights.

Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. 
If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building.


In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle 
the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use 
more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their 
commit.


-Matt


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Not ready for prime time...?  There's already several hundred thousand
subscribers on IPTV platforms in the US alone, so I'm not sure what
you're waiting for...  what shortcomings are you seeing?

The technology IS being deployed in prime time scenarios already
(ATT, which is not known for being adventuresome with technology is
the biggest, but not the only domestic example; internationally, it is
being deployed much more widely).

The main problem that WISPs face is that you may have to do some
network overhauls to handle that sort of traffic...

When you resell DirectTV (unless they have changed their model since
2005, which is the last I looked at their agreements), it is more of a
referral/outsourced installation crew than reselling.  It does let you
offer triple play to a point, but (again, unless it's changed), you
can't do single bill and you can't really generate any reoccuring
revenue (which, as a service provider, is where your real profit tends
to be)

Although you do have increased costs in doing your own in terms of
network buildout and so forth, you also effectively (if done right,
profitably) subsidize the buildout of a better network

It probably is not quite viable for ultra-rural WISPs because of
really low densities and so forth.  In areas with higher densities
(definitely MDU), it is viable and deployable

-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies





On 9/10/07, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Agreed, but IMO just not quite ready for prime time . yet.  grin

 Best,

 Brad


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:23 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

 IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold.  You can offer
 thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources.  It doesn't even
 have to be in the traditional channel format.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV


  Brad Belton wrote:
  We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came
  to
  a conclusion years ago.  Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish?
 
  For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with
  you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to
  multiple customers using IP provides different economics.
 
  -Matt
 
 
 
 
  ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
  ISPCON **
  ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
  ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
  ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
  ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
  http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 

 
 

 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 

 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:

Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do
this, you'd definitely be interested?  Is anyone else out there
potentially interested?

This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and
the technology is there and deployable.

There are two main obstacles, however.
1. Getting programming
2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not cheap...)

Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale
 I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized
level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers.  I'm
interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase
through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for
those customers...


-Clint Ricker




On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Brad Belton wrote:
  Correct, we see the same requests.  However, why try re-inventing the wheel
  when DirecTV already has a solution in place?  Every time this issue has
  popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if
  they only wanted CNN or FOX.
 
 Are you reselling DirecTV now?

  It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg
  into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we
  already have rights.
 
 Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops.
 If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building.

 In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle
 the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use
 more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their
 commit.

 -Matt
 

 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] IPTV

I guess most of us would want to know what would be required of us 
(infrastructure wise) to be able to do this kind of service.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Clint Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV



Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do
this, you'd definitely be interested?  Is anyone else out there
potentially interested?

This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and
the technology is there and deployable.

There are two main obstacles, however.
1. Getting programming
2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not 
cheap...)


Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale
I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized
level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers.  I'm
interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase
through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for
those customers...


-Clint Ricker




On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Brad Belton wrote:
 Correct, we see the same requests.  However, why try re-inventing the 
 wheel
 when DirecTV already has a solution in place?  Every time this issue 
 has
 popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even 
 if

 they only wanted CNN or FOX.

Are you reselling DirecTV now?

 It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the 
 IP leg
 into a building when the service is already available from the roof 
 where we

 already have rights.

Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops.
If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building.

In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle
the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use
more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their
commit.

-Matt


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] IPTV


Clint Ricker wrote:

Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do
this, you'd definitely be interested?  Is anyone else out there
potentially interested?

This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and
the technology is there and deployable.

There are two main obstacles, however.
1. Getting programming
2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not cheap...)

The first obstacle is by far the biggest one. The head-end 
infrastructure is really not that bad. In fact, in our case where we 
only want 4 channels it is pretty cheap.



Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale
 I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized
level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers.  I'm
interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase
through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for
those customers...

We are ready for the solution should it present itself. We have our own 
fiber backbone that we operate at 10gig currently. Further, we are 
multicast enabled and have all the traffic separation technologies 
needed as part of providing our existing VoIP service.


Again, just waiting on the solution to present itself.

-Matt


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] IPTV

2007-09-10 Thread Brandon Brownlee

I'd be interested. I've checked a few, and so far have been unable to find a
solution with programming that allows you to broadcast wirelessly due to
license agreements. Not to mention one channel is approximately 4megs, and
HD is 20megs, at TV quality anyway. These two things are large technical
hurdles, especially for WISPs. 3 TVs in the home on different channels?
12megs.

There are a few turnkey solutions deploying for small businesses now, with
break-evens set around a 1000 customer base, that will allow ala-carte to
a point. The ala-carte programming is foiled by the networks and their
contracts, not necessarily the cable/aggregate companies. If you get 1
channel from a company, they want to serve all their channels to you (You
can't get HBO without HBO2, HBO-West, HBO-Family, etc.). That is setup in
the carrier agreements with whomever is brokering the aggregate deals.

I agree with your #2 below, yep!

If you come up with something, please hit me up with the info as we would
definitely be interested.

Brandon


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Clint Ricker
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do
this, you'd definitely be interested?  Is anyone else out there
potentially interested?

This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and
the technology is there and deployable.

There are two main obstacles, however.
1. Getting programming
2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not
cheap...)

Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale
 I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized
level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers.  I'm
interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase
through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for
those customers...


-Clint Ricker




On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Brad Belton wrote:
  Correct, we see the same requests.  However, why try re-inventing the
wheel
  when DirecTV already has a solution in place?  Every time this issue has
  popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even
if
  they only wanted CNN or FOX.
 
 Are you reselling DirecTV now?

  It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP
leg
  into a building when the service is already available from the roof
where we
  already have rights.
 
 Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops.
 If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building.

 In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle
 the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use
 more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their
 commit.

 -Matt




 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **




 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at

Re: [WISPA] IPTV

MPEG-4 systems can provide much better bitrates.  Most of DirecTV's HD is in 
MPEG-4.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Brandon Brownlee [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV


I'd be interested. I've checked a few, and so far have been unable to find 
a

solution with programming that allows you to broadcast wirelessly due to
license agreements. Not to mention one channel is approximately 4megs, and
HD is 20megs, at TV quality anyway. These two things are large technical
hurdles, especially for WISPs. 3 TVs in the home on different channels?
12megs.

There are a few turnkey solutions deploying for small businesses now, with
break-evens set around a 1000 customer base, that will allow ala-carte 
to

a point. The ala-carte programming is foiled by the networks and their
contracts, not necessarily the cable/aggregate companies. If you get 1
channel from a company, they want to serve all their channels to you (You
can't get HBO without HBO2, HBO-West, HBO-Family, etc.). That is setup in
the carrier agreements with whomever is brokering the aggregate deals.

I agree with your #2 below, yep!

If you come up with something, please hit me up with the info as we would
definitely be interested.

Brandon


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Clint Ricker
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do
this, you'd definitely be interested?  Is anyone else out there
potentially interested?

This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and
the technology is there and deployable.

There are two main obstacles, however.
1. Getting programming
2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not
cheap...)

Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale
I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized
level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers.  I'm
interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase
through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for
those customers...


-Clint Ricker




On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Brad Belton wrote:
 Correct, we see the same requests.  However, why try re-inventing the

wheel
 when DirecTV already has a solution in place?  Every time this issue 
 has

 popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even

if

 they only wanted CNN or FOX.

Are you reselling DirecTV now?

 It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the 
 IP

leg

 into a building when the service is already available from the roof

where we

 already have rights.

Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops.
If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building.

In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle
the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use
more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their
commit.

-Matt






** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at

ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at

http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/






WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] IPTV

2007-09-10 Thread CHUCK PROFITO

How much better?

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV


MPEG-4 systems can provide much better bitrates.  Most of DirecTV's HD is in

MPEG-4.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Brandon Brownlee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV


 I'd be interested. I've checked a few, and so far have been unable to 
 find
 a
 solution with programming that allows you to broadcast wirelessly due to
 license agreements. Not to mention one channel is approximately 4megs, and
 HD is 20megs, at TV quality anyway. These two things are large technical
 hurdles, especially for WISPs. 3 TVs in the home on different channels?
 12megs.

 There are a few turnkey solutions deploying for small businesses now, 
 with break-evens set around a 1000 customer base, that will allow 
 ala-carte to a point. The ala-carte programming is foiled by the 
 networks and their contracts, not necessarily the cable/aggregate 
 companies. If you get 1 channel from a company, they want to serve all 
 their channels to you (You can't get HBO without HBO2, HBO-West, 
 HBO-Family, etc.). That is setup in the carrier agreements with 
 whomever is brokering the aggregate deals.

 I agree with your #2 below, yep!

 If you come up with something, please hit me up with the info as we 
 would definitely be interested.

 Brandon


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 On Behalf Of Clint Ricker
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:37 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

 Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do 
 this, you'd definitely be interested?  Is anyone else out there 
 potentially interested?

 This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and 
 the technology is there and deployable.

 There are two main obstacles, however.
 1. Getting programming
 2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not
 cheap...)

 Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale 
 I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized 
 level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers.  I'm 
 interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase 
 through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for 
 those customers...


 -Clint Ricker




 On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Brad Belton wrote:
  Correct, we see the same requests.  However, why try re-inventing 
  the
 wheel
  when DirecTV already has a solution in place?  Every time this 
  issue
  has
  popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even
 if
  they only wanted CNN or FOX.
 
 Are you reselling DirecTV now?

  It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on 
  the
  IP
 leg
  into a building when the service is already available from the roof
 where we
  already have rights.
 
 Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various 
 drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each 
 building.

 In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but 
 bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. 
 As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive 
 to upgrade their commit.

 -Matt

 --
 --
 

 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 
 at
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


 --
 --
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 --
 --
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe: 
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 --
 --
 

 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 
 at ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)

2007-09-10 Thread Sam Tetherow

Forrest, I didn't mean to be offensive in my email, or imply that you
are doing anything bad with your billing/usage model. I was just
stating my opinion concerning the increased usage of bandwidth by
customers and the WISP industry in general.

I'm pretty sure that everyone agrees that bandwidth usage will always go
up, just like processor speed and memory requirements and we as an
industry need to be ready to deal with it. The telcos and the cable
providers seem to be doing a better job of it right now mostly because
the medium that they have supports better upload speeds that most WISP
infrastructure can.

While we would all like to have customers that pay for our fastest
packages so they can check their email at blazingly fast speeds the
reality is that just like any over subscription model, we subsidize the
higher end users with the lower end users.

All I'm saying is that we are going to see the lower end users raising
the bar with uploads to youtube, flickr, jumpcut and other sites that
require larger uploading. And as the users age, the p2p kiddies of
today become the customers of tomorrow and while they may not be as
interested in downloading every episode of south park any more they are
growing up in a culture that expects more bandwidth.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

Forrest W. Christian wrote:

Sam Tetherow wrote:
As ISPs in general I think we are going to have to be able to provide
for this type of traffic. P2P is not all illegal movies. If we want
to be providers for our community we need to be able to provide for
the bandwidth hungry applications as well.
I want to be clear... The limits I was talking about are in the tens
of GByte/month range. 2Mb/s continous for days. I don't care whether
it's P2P or a Web Server, or 100 Audio streams or Open Source .iso's
being shared by Bittorrent. The Residential service we provide for
$55/month is supposed to be intermittent, not 2Mb/s continuous. If
someone wants 2Mb/s continous I'm more than happy to charge them
$250/month for it. A typical customer on the $55/month service can
download 2-3 full length, DVD quality, no additional compression
movies without me even blinking an eye. Start sucking (or pushing)
2Mb/s continuous, then I get a little irritated.

To me, the loss of a 2Mb/s continous customer is actually a good
thing. 2Mb/s continuous is almost impossible to provide at $55/month
in my neck of the woods. Any provider he goes to is going to cost
them more money than they are charging them. How much are *you*
paying for your upstream?

-forrest

** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007
at ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

a
href=http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=historyuser=tetherowretrain=spamsignatureID=16,46e4d101183331336712104;!DSPAM:16,46e4d101183331336712104!/a

** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] IPTV

I've heard of 768 kb SD and HD under 5 megs, though I forget how far under 5 
megs.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV


How much better?

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Providing High Speed Broadband
to Rural Central California


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV


MPEG-4 systems can provide much better bitrates.  Most of DirecTV's HD is in

MPEG-4.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Brandon Brownlee [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV



I'd be interested. I've checked a few, and so far have been unable to
find
a
solution with programming that allows you to broadcast wirelessly due to
license agreements. Not to mention one channel is approximately 4megs, and
HD is 20megs, at TV quality anyway. These two things are large technical
hurdles, especially for WISPs. 3 TVs in the home on different channels?
12megs.

There are a few turnkey solutions deploying for small businesses now,
with break-evens set around a 1000 customer base, that will allow
ala-carte to a point. The ala-carte programming is foiled by the
networks and their contracts, not necessarily the cable/aggregate
companies. If you get 1 channel from a company, they want to serve all
their channels to you (You can't get HBO without HBO2, HBO-West,
HBO-Family, etc.). That is setup in the carrier agreements with
whomever is brokering the aggregate deals.

I agree with your #2 below, yep!

If you come up with something, please hit me up with the info as we
would definitely be interested.

Brandon


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Clint Ricker
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do
this, you'd definitely be interested?  Is anyone else out there
potentially interested?

This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and
the technology is there and deployable.

There are two main obstacles, however.
1. Getting programming
2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not
cheap...)

Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale
I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized
level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers.  I'm
interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase
through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for
those customers...


-Clint Ricker




On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Brad Belton wrote:
 Correct, we see the same requests.  However, why try re-inventing
 the

wheel

 when DirecTV already has a solution in place?  Every time this
 issue
 has
 popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even

if

 they only wanted CNN or FOX.

Are you reselling DirecTV now?

 It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on
 the
 IP

leg

 into a building when the service is already available from the roof

where we

 already have rights.

Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various
drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each
building.

In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but
bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP.
As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive
to upgrade their commit.

-Matt


--
--



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007
at

ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at

http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **




--
--


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


--
--



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


--
--


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007
at ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall

Re: [WISPA] IPTV

2007-09-10 Thread Jeromie Reeves

My research show that the main cost is the STB more so then the head
end. VLS makes a pretty decent head-end depending on what you want to
serve out. I had setup VLS with access to current IPTV stations as
well as HD stored media. The streaming was very simple to to, albeit
network intensive. I would be very interested in learning more about
the purposed solution

On 9/10/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I've heard of 768 kb SD and HD under 5 megs, though I forget how far under 5
 megs.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:22 AM
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV


 How much better?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV


 MPEG-4 systems can provide much better bitrates.  Most of DirecTV's HD is in

 MPEG-4.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Brandon Brownlee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:04 AM
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV


  I'd be interested. I've checked a few, and so far have been unable to
  find
  a
  solution with programming that allows you to broadcast wirelessly due to
  license agreements. Not to mention one channel is approximately 4megs, and
  HD is 20megs, at TV quality anyway. These two things are large technical
  hurdles, especially for WISPs. 3 TVs in the home on different channels?
  12megs.
 
  There are a few turnkey solutions deploying for small businesses now,
  with break-evens set around a 1000 customer base, that will allow
  ala-carte to a point. The ala-carte programming is foiled by the
  networks and their contracts, not necessarily the cable/aggregate
  companies. If you get 1 channel from a company, they want to serve all
  their channels to you (You can't get HBO without HBO2, HBO-West,
  HBO-Family, etc.). That is setup in the carrier agreements with
  whomever is brokering the aggregate deals.
 
  I agree with your #2 below, yep!
 
  If you come up with something, please hit me up with the info as we
  would definitely be interested.
 
  Brandon
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  On Behalf Of Clint Ricker
  Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:37 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV
 
  Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do
  this, you'd definitely be interested?  Is anyone else out there
  potentially interested?
 
  This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and
  the technology is there and deployable.
 
  There are two main obstacles, however.
  1. Getting programming
  2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not
  cheap...)
 
  Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale
  I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized
  level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers.  I'm
  interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase
  through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for
  those customers...
 
 
  -Clint Ricker
 
 
 
 
  On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Brad Belton wrote:
   Correct, we see the same requests.  However, why try re-inventing
   the
  wheel
   when DirecTV already has a solution in place?  Every time this
   issue
   has
   popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even
  if
   they only wanted CNN or FOX.
  
  Are you reselling DirecTV now?
 
   It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on
   the
   IP
  leg
   into a building when the service is already available from the roof
  where we
   already have rights.
  
  Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various
  drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each
  building.
 
  In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but
  bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP.
  As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive
  to upgrade their commit.
 
  -Matt
 
  --
  --
  
 
  ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007
  at
  ISPCON **
  ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
  ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
  ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
  ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at

[WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

I was a WISP in the late 90s and early 00s. Some of you may know
me. It's good to see many familiar faces still here. In recent
years, I have pursued new interests but I keep thinking back on my
experiences as a WISP. I had a lot of good times back then. I'm
thinking about creeping back into the WISP business.

After I sold in 2004, I followed a new trend in wireless in the press
called muni wireless promoted by manufacturers such as Strix and
Tropos. This concept has taken some major blows in the press this month:

http://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.htmlhttp://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20521155/
http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=41788id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10view=newshttp://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?ne...2a10view=news

http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp...ng_sitedefault
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/as-earthlink-el.htmlhttp://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/...thlink-el.html

http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/6120

This hits close to home because the company who bought my WISP
(ShreveNet) boasted being the largest WISP with the largest muni WIFI
network in the nation in Tempe AZ (NeoReach aka Kite aka MobilePro)
which sold these properties recently to Gobility. (Big Yawn)..

http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/

I'm certainly am not posting this thread to defend or even discuss
the somewhat failed muni wireless concept. Some say it was a failure
because of the model rather than technology, caused by giving away
free service to the anchor tenant (the city) and so
forth. Whatever... I couldn't care less about the past or Earthlink
or Google, or MobilePro or huge muni wifi networks.

However I am fascinated by the mesh technology in general, especially
after witnessing the old Nokia collapsible bridged mesh networks of
the 90s. LOL, a lot has changed since then. I often wonder how Dave
Peterson and Ultramesh/locustworld turned out. Once upon a time, he
sold product to a WISP near me in Vivian LA to build the first mesh
network in the US. He ended up with some heavy debt. Also I knew of
a WISP in Leesville LA using Wave Wireless (Speedcom) mesh gear with
pretty good technical results, that is, for a single radio
system. I'm thinking more along the lines of multiple radio systems.

I am brainstorming a new WISP model and I am seeking feedback and
advice. The concept goes something like this. The muni network
model touted in the press had many flaws as I see it. Coming into an
urban market after DSL and Cable has to be a steep uphill climb. Yet
in 2007 there are still rural areas with no high speed solution in
sight, particularly in the wooded Southeast where the old wireless
models don't always work. I posted the following statistics to the
wireless boards nearly a decade ago as the results of my first 2.4GHz network.

In my area (Shreveport LA) 65 out of 100 business surveys came back
positive (35 negative) for LOS. This was made possible by multistory
buildings and large parking lots (lack of trees) Yet for residential
service, only 5 came back positive while 95 came back
negative. Clearly there is a tree issue in many residential parts of
the country. This is the market that has few if any options as many
keep hoping for DSL and cablemodem. Chainsaw jokes grow old fast around here.

Traditionally the tools for Foliar NLOS have been (a) the use of low
frequency spectrum to penetrate through the offending object, and (b)
route around the offending object by hopping around it, (c) increase
the power to try and punch through the offending objects. Add to
these maybe OFDM to use multipath interference to our advantage but I
see that as an Urban solution (reflections off buildings) more than a
foliar solution (reflections off trees) The 700mw SR9 combined with
a cheap SBCs and appropriate TCP routing protocols appears to go a
long way to make new things possible.

Please imagine a muni wireless mesh network that utilizes 900MHz
cards instead of 5.8 and 2.4 cards. Instead of nodes being 1000 feet
apart atop light poles, they are now spread 1 or 2 miles
apart. Instead of it taking 15 or 20 nodes to cover one square mile,
perhaps one node could cover 1 to 4 square miles. Could this be a
solution for wooded areas with low to moderate population
densities? In other words, do you know anyone who has ever built a
mesh network using SR9s and SBCs with multiple radios to achieve
redundancy and ubiquitous coverage for small towns in the
Southeast? And using no towers by the way, LOL? As I see it, the
SR9 has 4 non-overlapping channels at 5MHz each. Thats all I need. (I think)

No hub and spoke POPs off towers, please. Been there done that. I
don't think I could take that anymore. I'm not a climber and don't
wish to hire any climbers unless it is for aggregate backhaul PtP
which is fine. This post has nothing

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Wow, I think the last time I saw this guy was WISPCON-Dallas...  the first 
one if there was more than one.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Allen Marsalis [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 11:16 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


I was a WISP in the late 90s and early 00s. Some of you may know me.  It's 
good to see many familiar faces still here.  In recent years, I have 
pursued new interests but I keep thinking back on my experiences as a WISP. 
I had a lot of good times back then.  I'm thinking about creeping back into 
the WISP business.


After I sold in 2004, I followed a new trend in wireless in the press 
called muni wireless promoted by manufacturers such as Strix and Tropos. 
This concept has taken some major blows in the press this month:


http://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.htmlhttp://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20521155/
http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=41788id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10view=newshttp://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?ne...2a10view=news
http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp...ng_sitedefault
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/as-earthlink-el.htmlhttp://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/...thlink-el.html
http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/6120

This hits close to home because the company who bought my WISP (ShreveNet) 
boasted being the largest WISP with the largest muni WIFI network in the 
nation in Tempe AZ (NeoReach aka Kite aka MobilePro) which sold these 
properties recently to Gobility.  (Big Yawn)..


http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/

I'm certainly am not posting this thread to defend or even discuss the 
somewhat failed muni wireless concept.  Some say it was a failure because 
of the model rather than technology, caused by giving away free service to 
the anchor tenant (the city) and so forth.  Whatever... I couldn't care 
less about the past or Earthlink or Google, or MobilePro or huge muni wifi 
networks.


However I am fascinated by the mesh technology in general, especially 
after witnessing the old Nokia collapsible bridged mesh networks of the 
90s.  LOL, a lot has changed since then.  I often wonder how Dave Peterson 
and Ultramesh/locustworld turned out.  Once upon a time, he sold product 
to a WISP near me in Vivian LA to build the first mesh network in the US. 
He ended up with some heavy debt.  Also I knew of a WISP in Leesville LA 
using Wave Wireless (Speedcom) mesh gear with pretty good technical 
results, that is, for a single radio system.  I'm thinking more along the 
lines of multiple radio systems.


I am brainstorming a new WISP model and I am seeking feedback and advice. 
The concept goes something like this.  The muni network model touted in 
the press had many flaws as I see it.  Coming into an urban market after 
DSL and Cable has to be a steep uphill climb. Yet in 2007 there are still 
rural areas with no high speed solution in sight, particularly in the 
wooded Southeast where the old wireless models don't always work.  I 
posted the following statistics to the wireless boards nearly a decade ago 
as the results of my first 2.4GHz network.


In my area (Shreveport LA) 65 out of 100 business surveys came back 
positive (35 negative) for LOS. This was made possible by multistory 
buildings and large parking lots (lack of trees) Yet for residential 
service, only 5 came back positive while 95 came back negative.  Clearly 
there is a tree issue in many residential parts of the country.  This is 
the market that has few if any options as many keep hoping for DSL and 
cablemodem. Chainsaw jokes grow old fast around here.


Traditionally the tools for Foliar NLOS have been (a) the use of low 
frequency spectrum to penetrate through the offending object, and (b) 
route around the offending object by hopping around it, (c) increase the 
power to try and punch through the offending objects.  Add to these maybe 
OFDM to use multipath interference to our advantage but I see that as an 
Urban solution (reflections off buildings) more than a foliar solution 
(reflections off trees)  The 700mw SR9 combined with a cheap SBCs and 
appropriate TCP routing protocols appears to go a long way to make new 
things possible.


Please imagine a muni wireless mesh network that utilizes 900MHz cards 
instead of 5.8 and 2.4 cards.  Instead of nodes being 1000 feet apart atop 
light poles, they are now spread 1 or 2 miles apart.  Instead of it taking 
15 or 20 nodes to cover one square mile, perhaps one node could cover 1 to 
4 square miles.  Could this be a solution for wooded areas with low to 
moderate population densities?  In other words, do you know anyone who has 
ever built a mesh network using SR9s and SBCs with multiple radios to 
achieve redundancy and ubiquitous coverage for small towns in the 
Southeast?  And using no

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread lakeland

OMG!

I guess you dont love me anymore because you dont return my emails

:-(


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Allen Marsalis [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:16:57 
To:wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


I was a WISP in the late 90s and early 00s. Some of you may know 
me.  It's good to see many familiar faces still here.  In recent 
years, I have pursued new interests but I keep thinking back on my 
experiences as a WISP.  I had a lot of good times back then.  I'm 
thinking about creeping back into the WISP business.

After I sold in 2004, I followed a new trend in wireless in the press 
called muni wireless promoted by manufacturers such as Strix and 
Tropos.  This concept has taken some major blows in the press this month:

http://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.htmlhttp://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20521155/
http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=41788id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10view=newshttp://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?ne...2a10view=news
 

http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp...ng_sitedefault
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/as-earthlink-el.htmlhttp://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/...thlink-el.html
 

http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/6120

This hits close to home because the company who bought my WISP 
(ShreveNet) boasted being the largest WISP with the largest muni WIFI 
network in the nation in Tempe AZ (NeoReach aka Kite aka MobilePro) 
which sold these properties recently to Gobility.  (Big Yawn)..

http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/

I'm certainly am not posting this thread to defend or even discuss 
the somewhat failed muni wireless concept.  Some say it was a failure 
because of the model rather than technology, caused by giving away 
free service to the anchor tenant (the city) and so 
forth.  Whatever... I couldn't care less about the past or Earthlink 
or Google, or MobilePro or huge muni wifi networks.

However I am fascinated by the mesh technology in general, especially 
after witnessing the old Nokia collapsible bridged mesh networks of 
the 90s.  LOL, a lot has changed since then.  I often wonder how Dave 
Peterson and Ultramesh/locustworld turned out.  Once upon a time, he 
sold product to a WISP near me in Vivian LA to build the first mesh 
network in the US. He ended up with some heavy debt.  Also I knew of 
a WISP in Leesville LA using Wave Wireless (Speedcom) mesh gear with 
pretty good technical results, that is, for a single radio 
system.  I'm thinking more along the lines of multiple radio systems.

I am brainstorming a new WISP model and I am seeking feedback and 
advice.  The concept goes something like this.  The muni network 
model touted in the press had many flaws as I see it.  Coming into an 
urban market after DSL and Cable has to be a steep uphill climb. Yet 
in 2007 there are still rural areas with no high speed solution in 
sight, particularly in the wooded Southeast where the old wireless 
models don't always work.  I posted the following statistics to the 
wireless boards nearly a decade ago as the results of my first 2.4GHz network.

In my area (Shreveport LA) 65 out of 100 business surveys came back 
positive (35 negative) for LOS. This was made possible by multistory 
buildings and large parking lots (lack of trees) Yet for residential 
service, only 5 came back positive while 95 came back 
negative.  Clearly there is a tree issue in many residential parts of 
the country.  This is the market that has few if any options as many 
keep hoping for DSL and cablemodem. Chainsaw jokes grow old fast around here.

Traditionally the tools for Foliar NLOS have been (a) the use of low 
frequency spectrum to penetrate through the offending object, and (b) 
route around the offending object by hopping around it, (c) increase 
the power to try and punch through the offending objects.  Add to 
these maybe OFDM to use multipath interference to our advantage but I 
see that as an Urban solution (reflections off buildings) more than a 
foliar solution (reflections off trees)  The 700mw SR9 combined with 
a cheap SBCs and appropriate TCP routing protocols appears to go a 
long way to make new things possible.

Please imagine a muni wireless mesh network that utilizes 900MHz 
cards instead of 5.8 and 2.4 cards.  Instead of nodes being 1000 feet 
apart atop light poles, they are now spread 1 or 2 miles 
apart.  Instead of it taking 15 or 20 nodes to cover one square mile, 
perhaps one node could cover 1 to 4 square miles.  Could this be a 
solution for wooded areas with low to moderate population 
densities?  In other words, do you know anyone who has ever built a 
mesh network using SR9s and SBCs with multiple radios to achieve 
redundancy and ubiquitous coverage for small towns in the 
Southeast?  And using no towers by the way, LOL?  As I see it, the 
SR9 has 4

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread Bob Moldashel

YeahThat was him  And yes..it was the first one. Because I was 
at the second one ( I think) and he banged in sick for the show  (or 
something...)


:-)

-B-




Mike Hammett wrote:
Wow, I think the last time I saw this guy was WISPCON-Dallas...  the 
first one if there was more than one.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: Allen Marsalis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 11:16 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


I was a WISP in the late 90s and early 00s. Some of you may know me.  
It's good to see many familiar faces still here.  In recent years, I 
have pursued new interests but I keep thinking back on my experiences 
as a WISP. I had a lot of good times back then.  I'm thinking about 
creeping back into the WISP business.


After I sold in 2004, I followed a new trend in wireless in the press 
called muni wireless promoted by manufacturers such as Strix and 
Tropos. This concept has taken some major blows in the press this month:


http://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.htmlhttp://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.html 


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20521155/
http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=41788id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10view=newshttp://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?ne...2a10view=news 


http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp...ng_sitedefault
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/as-earthlink-el.htmlhttp://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/...thlink-el.html 


http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/6120

This hits close to home because the company who bought my WISP 
(ShreveNet) boasted being the largest WISP with the largest muni WIFI 
network in the nation in Tempe AZ (NeoReach aka Kite aka MobilePro) 
which sold these properties recently to Gobility.  (Big Yawn)..


http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/ 



I'm certainly am not posting this thread to defend or even discuss 
the somewhat failed muni wireless concept.  Some say it was a failure 
because of the model rather than technology, caused by giving away 
free service to the anchor tenant (the city) and so forth.  
Whatever... I couldn't care less about the past or Earthlink or 
Google, or MobilePro or huge muni wifi networks.


However I am fascinated by the mesh technology in general, especially 
after witnessing the old Nokia collapsible bridged mesh networks of 
the 90s.  LOL, a lot has changed since then.  I often wonder how Dave 
Peterson and Ultramesh/locustworld turned out.  Once upon a time, he 
sold product to a WISP near me in Vivian LA to build the first mesh 
network in the US. He ended up with some heavy debt.  Also I knew of 
a WISP in Leesville LA using Wave Wireless (Speedcom) mesh gear with 
pretty good technical results, that is, for a single radio system.  
I'm thinking more along the lines of multiple radio systems.


I am brainstorming a new WISP model and I am seeking feedback and 
advice. The concept goes something like this.  The muni network model 
touted in the press had many flaws as I see it.  Coming into an urban 
market after DSL and Cable has to be a steep uphill climb. Yet in 
2007 there are still rural areas with no high speed solution in 
sight, particularly in the wooded Southeast where the old wireless 
models don't always work.  I posted the following statistics to the 
wireless boards nearly a decade ago as the results of my first 2.4GHz 
network.


In my area (Shreveport LA) 65 out of 100 business surveys came back 
positive (35 negative) for LOS. This was made possible by multistory 
buildings and large parking lots (lack of trees) Yet for residential 
service, only 5 came back positive while 95 came back negative.  
Clearly there is a tree issue in many residential parts of the 
country.  This is the market that has few if any options as many keep 
hoping for DSL and cablemodem. Chainsaw jokes grow old fast around here.


Traditionally the tools for Foliar NLOS have been (a) the use of low 
frequency spectrum to penetrate through the offending object, and (b) 
route around the offending object by hopping around it, (c) increase 
the power to try and punch through the offending objects.  Add to 
these maybe OFDM to use multipath interference to our advantage but I 
see that as an Urban solution (reflections off buildings) more than a 
foliar solution (reflections off trees)  The 700mw SR9 combined with 
a cheap SBCs and appropriate TCP routing protocols appears to go a 
long way to make new things possible.


Please imagine a muni wireless mesh network that utilizes 900MHz 
cards instead of 5.8 and 2.4 cards.  Instead of nodes being 1000 feet 
apart atop light poles, they are now spread 1 or 2 miles apart.  
Instead of it taking 15 or 20 nodes to cover one square mile, perhaps 
one node could cover 1 to 4 square miles.  Could this be a solution 
for wooded areas with low to moderate population densities?  In

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread Gino Villarini

Wow! Im witnessing the return of a pioneer!

Welcome back

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Allen Marsalis
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:17 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

I was a WISP in the late 90s and early 00s. Some of you may know 
me.  It's good to see many familiar faces still here.  In recent 
years, I have pursued new interests but I keep thinking back on my 
experiences as a WISP.  I had a lot of good times back then.  I'm 
thinking about creeping back into the WISP business.

After I sold in 2004, I followed a new trend in wireless in the press 
called muni wireless promoted by manufacturers such as Strix and 
Tropos.  This concept has taken some major blows in the press this
month:

http://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.htmlhttp://wifinetnews.com/arch
ives/007869.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20521155/
http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=41788id=e9381817-0593-417a-86
39-c4c53e2a2a10view=newshttp://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?ne...2a10vi
ew=news 

http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp...ng_sitedefault
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/as-earthlink-el.htmlhttp://www.all
eyinsider.com/2007/08/...thlink-el.html 

http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/6120

This hits close to home because the company who bought my WISP 
(ShreveNet) boasted being the largest WISP with the largest muni WIFI 
network in the nation in Tempe AZ (NeoReach aka Kite aka MobilePro) 
which sold these properties recently to Gobility.  (Big Yawn)..

http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/http://www.bbwexchange.com/wir
eless_isp/

I'm certainly am not posting this thread to defend or even discuss 
the somewhat failed muni wireless concept.  Some say it was a failure 
because of the model rather than technology, caused by giving away 
free service to the anchor tenant (the city) and so 
forth.  Whatever... I couldn't care less about the past or Earthlink 
or Google, or MobilePro or huge muni wifi networks.

However I am fascinated by the mesh technology in general, especially 
after witnessing the old Nokia collapsible bridged mesh networks of 
the 90s.  LOL, a lot has changed since then.  I often wonder how Dave 
Peterson and Ultramesh/locustworld turned out.  Once upon a time, he 
sold product to a WISP near me in Vivian LA to build the first mesh 
network in the US. He ended up with some heavy debt.  Also I knew of 
a WISP in Leesville LA using Wave Wireless (Speedcom) mesh gear with 
pretty good technical results, that is, for a single radio 
system.  I'm thinking more along the lines of multiple radio systems.

I am brainstorming a new WISP model and I am seeking feedback and 
advice.  The concept goes something like this.  The muni network 
model touted in the press had many flaws as I see it.  Coming into an 
urban market after DSL and Cable has to be a steep uphill climb. Yet 
in 2007 there are still rural areas with no high speed solution in 
sight, particularly in the wooded Southeast where the old wireless 
models don't always work.  I posted the following statistics to the 
wireless boards nearly a decade ago as the results of my first 2.4GHz
network.

In my area (Shreveport LA) 65 out of 100 business surveys came back 
positive (35 negative) for LOS. This was made possible by multistory 
buildings and large parking lots (lack of trees) Yet for residential 
service, only 5 came back positive while 95 came back 
negative.  Clearly there is a tree issue in many residential parts of 
the country.  This is the market that has few if any options as many 
keep hoping for DSL and cablemodem. Chainsaw jokes grow old fast around
here.

Traditionally the tools for Foliar NLOS have been (a) the use of low 
frequency spectrum to penetrate through the offending object, and (b) 
route around the offending object by hopping around it, (c) increase 
the power to try and punch through the offending objects.  Add to 
these maybe OFDM to use multipath interference to our advantage but I 
see that as an Urban solution (reflections off buildings) more than a 
foliar solution (reflections off trees)  The 700mw SR9 combined with 
a cheap SBCs and appropriate TCP routing protocols appears to go a 
long way to make new things possible.

Please imagine a muni wireless mesh network that utilizes 900MHz 
cards instead of 5.8 and 2.4 cards.  Instead of nodes being 1000 feet 
apart atop light poles, they are now spread 1 or 2 miles 
apart.  Instead of it taking 15 or 20 nodes to cover one square mile, 
perhaps one node could cover 1 to 4 square miles.  Could this be a 
solution for wooded areas with low to moderate population 
densities?  In other words, do you know anyone who has ever built a 
mesh network using SR9s and SBCs with multiple radios to achieve 
redundancy and ubiquitous coverage for small towns in the

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread Gino Villarini

You 900 idea souns interesting, but youll need a 900 muni client and/or
900 pcmcia card for customers

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Allen Marsalis
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:17 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

I was a WISP in the late 90s and early 00s. Some of you may know 
me.  It's good to see many familiar faces still here.  In recent 
years, I have pursued new interests but I keep thinking back on my 
experiences as a WISP.  I had a lot of good times back then.  I'm 
thinking about creeping back into the WISP business.

After I sold in 2004, I followed a new trend in wireless in the press 
called muni wireless promoted by manufacturers such as Strix and 
Tropos.  This concept has taken some major blows in the press this
month:

http://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.htmlhttp://wifinetnews.com/arch
ives/007869.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20521155/
http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=41788id=e9381817-0593-417a-86
39-c4c53e2a2a10view=newshttp://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?ne...2a10vi
ew=news 

http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp...ng_sitedefault
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/as-earthlink-el.htmlhttp://www.all
eyinsider.com/2007/08/...thlink-el.html 

http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/6120

This hits close to home because the company who bought my WISP 
(ShreveNet) boasted being the largest WISP with the largest muni WIFI 
network in the nation in Tempe AZ (NeoReach aka Kite aka MobilePro) 
which sold these properties recently to Gobility.  (Big Yawn)..

http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/http://www.bbwexchange.com/wir
eless_isp/

I'm certainly am not posting this thread to defend or even discuss 
the somewhat failed muni wireless concept.  Some say it was a failure 
because of the model rather than technology, caused by giving away 
free service to the anchor tenant (the city) and so 
forth.  Whatever... I couldn't care less about the past or Earthlink 
or Google, or MobilePro or huge muni wifi networks.

However I am fascinated by the mesh technology in general, especially 
after witnessing the old Nokia collapsible bridged mesh networks of 
the 90s.  LOL, a lot has changed since then.  I often wonder how Dave 
Peterson and Ultramesh/locustworld turned out.  Once upon a time, he 
sold product to a WISP near me in Vivian LA to build the first mesh 
network in the US. He ended up with some heavy debt.  Also I knew of 
a WISP in Leesville LA using Wave Wireless (Speedcom) mesh gear with 
pretty good technical results, that is, for a single radio 
system.  I'm thinking more along the lines of multiple radio systems.

I am brainstorming a new WISP model and I am seeking feedback and 
advice.  The concept goes something like this.  The muni network 
model touted in the press had many flaws as I see it.  Coming into an 
urban market after DSL and Cable has to be a steep uphill climb. Yet 
in 2007 there are still rural areas with no high speed solution in 
sight, particularly in the wooded Southeast where the old wireless 
models don't always work.  I posted the following statistics to the 
wireless boards nearly a decade ago as the results of my first 2.4GHz
network.

In my area (Shreveport LA) 65 out of 100 business surveys came back 
positive (35 negative) for LOS. This was made possible by multistory 
buildings and large parking lots (lack of trees) Yet for residential 
service, only 5 came back positive while 95 came back 
negative.  Clearly there is a tree issue in many residential parts of 
the country.  This is the market that has few if any options as many 
keep hoping for DSL and cablemodem. Chainsaw jokes grow old fast around
here.

Traditionally the tools for Foliar NLOS have been (a) the use of low 
frequency spectrum to penetrate through the offending object, and (b) 
route around the offending object by hopping around it, (c) increase 
the power to try and punch through the offending objects.  Add to 
these maybe OFDM to use multipath interference to our advantage but I 
see that as an Urban solution (reflections off buildings) more than a 
foliar solution (reflections off trees)  The 700mw SR9 combined with 
a cheap SBCs and appropriate TCP routing protocols appears to go a 
long way to make new things possible.

Please imagine a muni wireless mesh network that utilizes 900MHz 
cards instead of 5.8 and 2.4 cards.  Instead of nodes being 1000 feet 
apart atop light poles, they are now spread 1 or 2 miles 
apart.  Instead of it taking 15 or 20 nodes to cover one square mile, 
perhaps one node could cover 1 to 4 square miles.  Could this be a 
solution for wooded areas with low to moderate population 
densities?  In other words, do you know anyone who has ever built a 
mesh network using SR9s and SBCs with multiple radios to achieve 
redundancy and

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


At 11:29 AM 9/10/2007, you wrote:
Wow, I think the last time I saw this guy was WISPCON-Dallas...  the 
first one if there was more than one.


That was me.  There is only one me, that's for sure.  :)Dallas 
WISPCON was my last convention.


Allen



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


At 11:42 AM 9/10/2007, Bob Moldashel wrote:
YeahThat was him  And yes..it was the first one. Because I 
was at the second one ( I think) and he banged in sick for the 
show  (or something...)


Bob I remember missing you in Chicago but not Dallas.  If I ever knew 
you were in Dallas, I'd be there just to meet you face to face for 
the first time.


Allen



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


At 11:42 AM 9/10/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

OMG!

I guess you dont love me anymore because you dont return my emails

:-(



I do love you Bob and I'm truly sorry about that.   Around '04 I used 
to spend about 4 to 6 hours a day on email and my new boss put an end 
to all that.  After I quit, I bounced around between many email 
addresses and fell into an email funk.  My old shreve.net address 
seems to be working now so I dusted it off to give it a try.  Last 
month I accidently wiped out my bandwise account..  Not making 
excuses, its my fault.  I tried to call you a few weeks ago to chat 
but dropped the ball again.  I've made many mistakes lately.


But I just can't stop thinking about wireless!  ;)

Allen



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


At 11:49 AM 9/10/2007, you wrote:

You 900 idea souns interesting, but youll need a 900 muni client and/or
900 pcmcia card for customers



Thanks much for the reply Gino.  My idea is like muni wireless in 
that there really is no CPE per se.  With muni wifi, each node is on 
top of a light pole or building.  With my idea, I would place a pole 
in the yard (or rooftop) of select customers to form the NLOS 
mesh.  Each box would have at least two 900MHz cards plus one wifi 
card for the customer to access using a laptop (or desktop with cheap 
wifi adapter).  Like with muni wifi, I would own all the rooftop and 
poletop outdoor gear.


But in a sense you are correct.  In fact it would be more like two 
900 cards per customer if you are not at the edge of the mesh.  I'm 
able to get 0.1 miles of NLOS using wifi so in theory, next door 
neighbors may not need any 900 (not be a node in the mesh)


One goal is to reduce the need for towers.  A climber fell to his 
death here only a few months ago, and I can't afford expensive tower 
space and climbers anyway.  I'd rather put that capital in to more 
gear to grow the mesh organically.


I take it that nobody has ever built a 900MHz NLOS mesh network 
before.  Which is not a good sign to me.  That's a sign that my idea 
probably won't work.


Allen





** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Allen:

Metricom did.

Thanks,

Steve

On 9/10/07, Allen Marsalis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

snip

 I take it that nobody has ever built a 900MHz NLOS mesh network
 before.  Which is not a good sign to me.  That's a sign that my idea
 probably won't work.

 Allen



-- 

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

So does this mean that you now agree with me that little wireless cards 
can be used for wireless broadband?


George

:)


Allen Marsalis wrote:

At 11:49 AM 9/10/2007, you wrote:

You 900 idea souns interesting, but youll need a 900 muni client and/or
900 pcmcia card for customers






** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


At 12:56 PM 9/10/2007, Steve Stroh wrote:

Allen:

Metricom did.

Thanks,

Steve


Thanks for the reply Steve.  Can you share if they were able to make 
it work or not?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.


Allen



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread Joel White

Alan,

There is a second manufacture of 900 Mini-Pci cards which is Zcomax. The two
(ubnt and Zcomax don't talk because of different center frequencies. Zcomax is
what Tranzeo is using in there 900 products, so this may be a good way to go,
with the ability to have pre-manufactured client radios. What I have found
with any Atheros card running 5Mhz channels, is that if you scan from another,
you will see the first card transmitting on a channel about 20mhz away. This
transmit is about 20dB less than the primary, but still prevalently there. I
think you could see some issues because of this, and I wonder what frequency
that ends up being when the 900 card is a re-badge of 2.4. To explain this
better, channel 6 on 2.4 is 906 on the ubiquity cards I believe. If I then
scan and see a signature at 2457, what frequency is that on the 900
conversion? It is probably in the high 800 range by my estimate. There are
definitely some issues there.

Also, I have seen better connections with Motorola 900 than with the put
togethers. I do think your idea is something worth while, and I've thought
about something similar myself. I am also familiar with the Muni-market, and
the downfalls, and the good ideas of it. If you remember me, you know I worked
for one of them. In fact, I worked under you I believe!!

Good to see you back.

Joel White
NexGenAccess Inc.
www.nexgenaccess.com
740-513-4122

NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com


-- Original Message ---
From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:49:35 -0400
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

 You 900 idea souns interesting, but youll need a 900 muni client and/or
 900 pcmcia card for customers
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 On Behalf Of Allen Marsalis Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:17 
 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks
 
 I was a WISP in the late 90s and early 00s. Some of you may know 
 me.  It's good to see many familiar faces still here.  In recent 
 years, I have pursued new interests but I keep thinking back on my 
 experiences as a WISP.  I had a lot of good times back then.  I'm 
 thinking about creeping back into the WISP business.
 
 After I sold in 2004, I followed a new trend in wireless in the 
 press called muni wireless promoted by manufacturers such as Strix 
 and Tropos.  This concept has taken some major blows in the press 
 this month:
 
 http://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.htmlhttp://wifinetnews.com/arch
 ives/007869.html
 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20521155/
 http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=41788id=e9381817-0593-
 417a-86 
 39-c4c53e2a2a10view=newshttp://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?ne...2a10vi
 ew=news
 
 http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp...ng_sitedefault
 http://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/as-earthlink-el.htmlhttp://www.all
 eyinsider.com/2007/08/...thlink-el.html
 
 http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/6120
 
 This hits close to home because the company who bought my WISP
 
 (ShreveNet) boasted being the largest WISP with the largest muni 
 WIFI network in the nation in Tempe AZ (NeoReach aka Kite aka 
 MobilePro) which sold these properties recently to Gobility.  (Big 
 Yawn)..
 
 http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/http://www.bbwexchange.com/wir
 eless_isp/
 
 I'm certainly am not posting this thread to defend or even discuss 
 the somewhat failed muni wireless concept.  Some say it was a 
 failure because of the model rather than technology, caused by 
 giving away free service to the anchor tenant (the city) and so 
 forth.  Whatever... I couldn't care less about the past or Earthlink 
 or Google, or MobilePro or huge muni wifi networks.
 
 However I am fascinated by the mesh technology in general, 
 especially after witnessing the old Nokia collapsible bridged mesh 
 networks of the 90s.  LOL, a lot has changed since then.  I often 
 wonder how Dave Peterson and Ultramesh/locustworld turned out.  Once 
 upon a time, he sold product to a WISP near me in Vivian LA to build 
 the first mesh network in the US. He ended up with some heavy debt.  
 Also I knew of a WISP in Leesville LA using Wave Wireless (Speedcom) 
 mesh gear with pretty good technical results, that is, for a single 
 radio system.  I'm thinking more along the lines of multiple radio systems.
 
 I am brainstorming a new WISP model and I am seeking feedback and 
 advice.  The concept goes something like this.  The muni network 
 model touted in the press had many flaws as I see it.  Coming into 
 an urban market after DSL and Cable has to be a steep uphill climb. 
 Yet in 2007 there are still rural areas with no high speed solution 
 in sight, particularly in the wooded Southeast where the old 
 wireless models don't always work.  I posted the

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread David E. Smith


Allen Marsalis wrote:

I take it that nobody has ever built a 900MHz NLOS mesh network before.  
Which is not a good sign to me.  That's a sign that my idea probably 
won't work.


I'd be very skeptical just because of what I lovingly call the Tropos 
Effect.


Obviously, all these nodes eventually have to come back to... somewhere 
that has a big bad Internet connection. Your office, a central tower, 
whatever. If you're near that tower, you don't have much of a problem, 
as your laptop is talking to a node that's talking directly to that 
point of origin. If you're a few blocks away, where your laptop talks to 
a node that's two or three hops away, there's cumulative bandwidth loss 
and added latency, and just more things that can go wrong generally.


Your proposal gets rid of the worst part of how Tropos does things. They 
use the same radio both for inter-node communication and for customers, 
same SSID, same everything; by using separate radios for backhaul and 
customer access, you're already coming out ahead.


There will still be added overhead and latency, the more nodes you have 
to go through, and the folks at the farthest reaches of the network 
won't have as good an experience as the folks close to your point of origin.


I'm a bit skeptical. The expense of 900MHz gear, and the sheer number of 
units you'd need to for a wide coverage area, makes this seem like a 
really difficult idea to pull off. Nevertheless, I wish you luck, if you 
do choose to deploy something like that.


David Smith
MVN.net


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


At 01:02 PM 9/10/2007, George Rogato wrote:
So does this mean that you now agree with me that little wireless 
cards can be used for wireless broadband?


George

:)



Yes George I do.  In fact I used pcmcia cards back in '03 and '04 at 
ShreveNet for residential pops with good results after we got the 
bugs out.  I'm sure there was a time I felt differently about 
cards.  Sorry if I ever gave you a hard time about it.


Allen



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread Joel White

Metricom was one of the ones that we were uninstalling in Tempe. i.e. out of
business.

I don't know if that was technical issues or management or a combo of both.

Joel White
NexGenAccess Inc.
www.nexgenaccess.com
740-513-4122

NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com


-- Original Message ---
From: Allen Marsalis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:05:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

 At 12:56 PM 9/10/2007, Steve Stroh wrote:
 Allen:
 
 Metricom did.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Steve
 
 Thanks for the reply Steve.  Can you share if they were able to make 
 it work or not?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.
 
 Allen
 
 
 
 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 
 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA 
   www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE 
 Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use 
 Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--- End of Original Message ---



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Wow thanks for the info Joel.  I bought a couple of SR9's last week 
and I'm experimenting now.  I might need a 900MHz range spectrum 
analyzer for this one.  :)


Re: In fact, I worked under you I believe!!

LOL, well sort of.  There was no budget, so my job was pretty weird 
while it lasted.  Bruce S. sniped my position which I always thought 
was a good thing given the circumstances surrounding the death spiral 
toxic financing deals.  Doesn't look like he was able to save the day 
with his muni wifi program.


Did you move to Tempe?  Are you back in Ohio?  I should probably call 
Paul this week and see what's happening.  I hope he isn't too 
depressed over the deal like I am (or was)  :)


Allen



At 01:05 PM 9/10/2007, Joel White wrote:

Alan,

There is a second manufacture of 900 Mini-Pci cards which is Zcomax. The two
(ubnt and Zcomax don't talk because of different center frequencies. Zcomax is
what Tranzeo is using in there 900 products, so this may be a good way to go,
with the ability to have pre-manufactured client radios. What I have found
with any Atheros card running 5Mhz channels, is that if you scan from another,
you will see the first card transmitting on a channel about 20mhz away. This
transmit is about 20dB less than the primary, but still prevalently there. I
think you could see some issues because of this, and I wonder what frequency
that ends up being when the 900 card is a re-badge of 2.4. To explain this
better, channel 6 on 2.4 is 906 on the ubiquity cards I believe. If I then
scan and see a signature at 2457, what frequency is that on the 900
conversion? It is probably in the high 800 range by my estimate. There are
definitely some issues there.

Also, I have seen better connections with Motorola 900 than with the put
togethers. I do think your idea is something worth while, and I've thought
about something similar myself. I am also familiar with the Muni-market, and
the downfalls, and the good ideas of it. If you remember me, you know I worked
for one of them. In fact, I worked under you I believe!!

Good to see you back.

Joel White
NexGenAccess Inc.
www.nexgenaccess.com
740-513-4122

NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com


-- Original Message ---
From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:49:35 -0400
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

 You 900 idea souns interesting, but youll need a 900 muni client and/or
 900 pcmcia card for customers

 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Allen Marsalis Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:17
 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

 I was a WISP in the late 90s and early 00s. Some of you may know
 me.  It's good to see many familiar faces still here.  In recent
 years, I have pursued new interests but I keep thinking back on my
 experiences as a WISP.  I had a lot of good times back then.  I'm
 thinking about creeping back into the WISP business.

 After I sold in 2004, I followed a new trend in wireless in the
 press called muni wireless promoted by manufacturers such as Strix
 and Tropos.  This concept has taken some major blows in the press
 this month:

 http://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.htmlhttp://wifinetnews.com/arch
 ives/007869.html
 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20521155/
 
http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=41788id=e9381817-0593-http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=41788id=e9381817-0593- 
417a-86 
39-c4c53e2a2a10view=newshttp://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?ne...2a10vi

 ew=news

 http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp...ng_sitedefault
 http://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/as-earthlink-el.htmlhttp://www.all
 eyinsider.com/2007/08/...thlink-el.html

 http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/6120

 This hits close to home because the company who bought my WISP

 (ShreveNet) boasted being the largest WISP with the largest muni
 WIFI network in the nation in Tempe AZ (NeoReach aka Kite aka
 MobilePro) which sold these properties recently to Gobility.  (Big
 Yawn)..

 http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/http://www.bbwexchange.com/wir
 eless_isp/

 I'm certainly am not posting this thread to defend or even discuss
 the somewhat failed muni wireless concept.  Some say it was a
 failure because of the model rather than technology, caused by
 giving away free service to the anchor tenant (the city) and so
 forth.  Whatever... I couldn't care less about the past or Earthlink
 or Google, or MobilePro or huge muni wifi networks.

 However I am fascinated by the mesh technology in general,
 especially after witnessing the old Nokia collapsible bridged mesh
 networks of the 90s.  LOL, a lot has changed since then.  I often
 wonder how Dave Peterson and Ultramesh/locustworld turned out.  Once
 upon a time, he sold product to

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)

2007-09-10 Thread Forrest W Christian


Sam Tetherow wrote:
Forrest, I didn't mean to be offensive in my email, or imply that you 
are doing anything bad with your billing/usage model.  I was just 
stating my opinion concerning the increased usage of bandwidth by 
customers and the WISP industry in general.
If I came accross defensive, I apologize..  That wasn't my intent.  I 
just wanted to clarify that, in general, we're trying to rid ourselves 
of exactly the same people that the cable companies are ridding 
themselves of - those which expect a full bore pipe for less than it 
costs us to purchase the bandwidth.
I'm pretty sure that everyone agrees that bandwidth usage will always 
go up, just like processor speed and memory requirements and we as an 
industry need to be ready to deal with it.  The telcos and the cable 
providers seem to be doing a better job of it right now mostly because 
the medium that they have supports better upload speeds that most WISP 
infrastructure can.
We provide symmetrical service to our customers.   2Mb/s down and up...  
show me a typical Cable or DSL provider who can do that.  In fact, most 
cable plants are severely limited in the upload direction just because 
of how the return path is configured (it all lives below channel 2).


-forrest


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] IPTV

2007-09-10 Thread Mike Bushard, Jr

I would like to look at the bandwidth per channel your system would use.
Around here there are multiple tv's per household, and very few are ever on
the same channel. That is where I see the issue, even at 1 meg per feed X 3
STB's kills my 900Mhz Canopy AP.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Clint Ricker
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:31 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Not ready for prime time...?  There's already several hundred thousand
subscribers on IPTV platforms in the US alone, so I'm not sure what
you're waiting for...  what shortcomings are you seeing?

The technology IS being deployed in prime time scenarios already
(ATT, which is not known for being adventuresome with technology is
the biggest, but not the only domestic example; internationally, it is
being deployed much more widely).

The main problem that WISPs face is that you may have to do some
network overhauls to handle that sort of traffic...

When you resell DirectTV (unless they have changed their model since
2005, which is the last I looked at their agreements), it is more of a
referral/outsourced installation crew than reselling.  It does let you
offer triple play to a point, but (again, unless it's changed), you
can't do single bill and you can't really generate any reoccuring
revenue (which, as a service provider, is where your real profit tends
to be)

Although you do have increased costs in doing your own in terms of
network buildout and so forth, you also effectively (if done right,
profitably) subsidize the buildout of a better network

It probably is not quite viable for ultra-rural WISPs because of
really low densities and so forth.  In areas with higher densities
(definitely MDU), it is viable and deployable

-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies





On 9/10/07, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Agreed, but IMO just not quite ready for prime time . yet.  grin

 Best,

 Brad


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:23 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

 IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold.  You can offer
 thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources.  It doesn't
even
 have to be in the traditional channel format.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV


  Brad Belton wrote:
  We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we
came
  to
  a conclusion years ago.  Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish?
 
  For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with
  you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to
  multiple customers using IP provides different economics.
 
  -Matt
 


 
 
  ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
  ISPCON **
  ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
  ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
  ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
  ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
  http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **
 
 


 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 


 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 



 

 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)

 We provide symmetrical service to our customers.   2Mb/s down and up...
 show me a typical Cable or DSL provider who can do that.  In fact, most
 cable plants are severely limited in the upload direction just because
 of how the return path is configured (it all lives below channel 2).

You can on cable, but it is much costlier in terms of equipment and
bandwidth usage (but is done for some business class connections over
HFC).

Still, for a residential customer, does it really matter?  Personally,
I'd take a 1Mb/s symetrical over a 10Mb/s down, 384Kb/s up, but I'm
quite atypical on my network usage.  For most customers, asymetrical
is perfectly fine, especially for residential...


-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] OT: rural WISP testers needed

Hi folks,

We are looking for a handful of WISPs to do some product testing on an
entirely new WISP multipoint product line from Alvarion. You need not be
a current Alvarion WISP (and this is not intended for those with
BreezeACCESS VL networks). The line is intended for the most cost
sensitive markets, especially on the residential side. No big strings
attached, but testers would be required to provide detailed feedback on
performance as well as overall value. I am looking for testers who are
in deep rural areas and I am interested in a sampling which could
include U.S., Canada and the Caribbean. Please contact me OFFLIST, but
only if you are serious. I can't offer more detail on the product in
this mail, but the whole WISP market will know about it in short order.

Again, please reach out offlist.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World
Chicago, September 25-27
Booth #409






 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp 
Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer viruses(84). 









This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer 
viruses.





** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

I'm glad your still around the industry Allen, every one in a while 
someone says, Where's Allen M? Makes us wonder.
Myself, I would only look at 900 as a temporary frequency to use. Maybe 
a couple years, more in the very rural areas and less urban wise.


Too many others are using 900 or starting to use it. Electric and water 
companies for meter reading, walmart and other bigbox for id and our 
portable phones still use 900 even when their 2.4 or 5.8.


So if building something out and realizing it has a short time span 
works. Then 900 is workable.



George


Allen Marsalis wrote:

At 01:02 PM 9/10/2007, George Rogato wrote:
So does this mean that you now agree with me that little wireless 
cards can be used for wireless broadband?


George

:)



Yes George I do.  In fact I used pcmcia cards back in '03 and '04 at 
ShreveNet for residential pops with good results after we got the bugs 
out.  I'm sure there was a time I felt differently about cards.  Sorry 
if I ever gave you a hard time about it.


Allen

 



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
 



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)


Forrest W Christian wrote:

we're trying to rid ourselves of exactly the same people that the cable 
companies are ridding
themselves of - those which expect a full bore pipe for less than it 
costs us to purchase the bandwidth.


I just had a guy who wanted to sign up but wanted to define what speeds 
I was going to give him and what exactly he was expecting.

He said, when I buy a 3 meg connection I expect 3 megs all the time.

I asked him if he thought 3 megs all the time meant that when he hit the 
speed test button, that it was going to come back every single time at 3 
megs or if he meant 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at 
3megs a second.


He chose 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at 3megs a 
second.


And he wanted a public ip address and no ports blocked.

So I asked him if he thought it was feasible for me to buy bandwidth at 
$60+ per meg on a dedicated internet connection and then sell him 3x $60 
for $40.00 per month and then to boot buy him a public ip and configure 
my routers to his specification.


How long will I stay in business doing that.

We argued a bit about bit caps and consumer broadband connection verses 
dedicated business class connectivity. I kept my cool and was even keel, 
the guy was getting pissed and disagreeing the deeper I got into 
explaining what I was going to be providing and he was going to be 
buying. Finally I sent him on his way to google and told him he should 
search out comcast and bit caps and give me a call back when he thinks 
he can operate on my network with my terms of service.


The guy called back, apologized and explained he misunderstood and and 
he expected to pay what he should be paying and would give me a call 
back when he was ready.


I hooked him up a couple weeks ago and we're both happy.

He knows the rules. He even offered to pay more for his public ip. I 
didn't and generally don't charge extra for ip addresses. And he knows 
to be reasonable about usage.
Heck I could care less if he used 50 gigs every now and then, but not 
all-the-time


Now how to explain it to the rest of the market place is going to be the 
hard thing.


George


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread John Valenti


Allen,

It sounds as if you might be proposing this for a suburban or even  
tree filled urban environment. One problem you might run into is  
clear spectrum in 900MHz.  I've use Trango gear out in rural areas,  
where it works OK. I've only done a few scans in the city (East  
Lansing and Lansing, specifically). Both of those scans were so  
depressing I never tried making any links with 900 in town. All the  
channels were what the Trango manual calls unsuitable.


I have a few of the SR9 cards and am just starting to work with them.  
I read somewhere that Trango (for example) rejects interference  
better than the SR9. No personal experience one way or another yet.


My new rule of thumb with Trango is that I can go 2 miles.  This is  
with AP's at 80 - 130' AGL, pretty flat ground, but quite a few  
trees. However, I have been struggling to make a link that is only  
one mile, unfortunately the path follows a heavily wooded riverbed.  
So you just never know. I think I've solved this connection by  
relaying off the house next door (tenth of a mile closer, but with an  
open field for 1/4 mile toward the AP). But I did notice that there  
is heavy noise at the relay house in what Trango calls channel 2.   
Noise level about -67. No idea what is doing that.


You might consider a modified mesh structure that uses 2.4 or 5GHz  
(or even 900 after testing) to those few LOS houses, then something  
like Meraki mesh to connect close neighbors.


Otherwise, I think your idea is great, if you could get clear  
spectrum.   :-)



On September 10, at 12:16 PM September 10, Allen Marsalis wrote:

Please imagine a muni wireless mesh network that utilizes 900MHz  
cards instead of 5.8 and 2.4 cards.  Instead of nodes being 1000  
feet apart atop light poles, they are now spread 1 or 2 miles  
apart.  Instead of it taking 15 or 20 nodes to cover one square  
mile, perhaps one node could cover 1 to 4 square miles.  Could this  
be a solution for wooded areas with low to moderate population  
densities?  In other words, do you know anyone who has ever built a  
mesh network using SR9s and SBCs with multiple radios to achieve  
redundancy and ubiquitous coverage for small towns in the  
Southeast?  And using no towers by the way, LOL?  As I see it, the  
SR9 has 4 non-overlapping channels at 5MHz each.  Thats all I need.  
(I think)




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] OT: rural WISP testers needed

So a bunch of you are asking for a bit more detail in order to know if
you might be interested. So I can add the following in the way of
analogy. If BreezeACCESS VL is a Lexus, the new line would like a
Corolla -- still from Alvarion so the expected quality will be there,
just not all the bells and whistles that VL brings. It does have a few
unique features like one CPE for all 5 GHz bands (yes, Brad Belton, you
heard it right :) ; you select whether to make the CPE 5.3, 5.4 or 5.8
GHz. So that's a big plus on the operations side. And though still
riding the same roads, it would not share the same infrastructure.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World
Chicago, September 25-27
Booth #409

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT: rural WISP testers needed

Hi folks,

We are looking for a handful of WISPs to do some product testing on an
entirely new WISP multipoint product line from Alvarion. You need not be
a current Alvarion WISP (and this is not intended for those with
BreezeACCESS VL networks). The line is intended for the most cost
sensitive markets, especially on the residential side. No big strings
attached, but testers would be required to provide detailed feedback on
performance as well as overall value. I am looking for testers who are
in deep rural areas and I am interested in a sampling which could
include U.S., Canada and the Caribbean. Please contact me OFFLIST, but
only if you are serious. I can't offer more detail on the product in
this mail, but the whole WISP market will know about it in short order.

Again, please reach out offlist.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World
Chicago, September 25-27
Booth #409






 This footnote confirms that this email message has been
scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code,
vandals  computer viruses(84).







 
 


This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses.







** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190).











This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(43).









 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp 
Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer viruses(84). 









This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer 
viruses.






** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)

Not to be overly provocative here, but why are you paying $60/meg?

You're a trade organization...make deals with each other, share your
upstream peers, buy in bulk, and get your $60/meg to $30/meg, $20/meg,
or even lower...

-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies


On 9/10/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Forrest W Christian wrote:

 we're trying to rid ourselves of exactly the same people that the cable
 companies are ridding
  themselves of - those which expect a full bore pipe for less than it
  costs us to purchase the bandwidth.

 I just had a guy who wanted to sign up but wanted to define what speeds
 I was going to give him and what exactly he was expecting.
 He said, when I buy a 3 meg connection I expect 3 megs all the time.

 I asked him if he thought 3 megs all the time meant that when he hit the
 speed test button, that it was going to come back every single time at 3
 megs or if he meant 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at
 3megs a second.

 He chose 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at 3megs a
 second.

 And he wanted a public ip address and no ports blocked.

 So I asked him if he thought it was feasible for me to buy bandwidth at
 $60+ per meg on a dedicated internet connection and then sell him 3x $60
 for $40.00 per month and then to boot buy him a public ip and configure
 my routers to his specification.

 How long will I stay in business doing that.

 We argued a bit about bit caps and consumer broadband connection verses
 dedicated business class connectivity. I kept my cool and was even keel,
 the guy was getting pissed and disagreeing the deeper I got into
 explaining what I was going to be providing and he was going to be
 buying. Finally I sent him on his way to google and told him he should
 search out comcast and bit caps and give me a call back when he thinks
 he can operate on my network with my terms of service.

 The guy called back, apologized and explained he misunderstood and and
 he expected to pay what he should be paying and would give me a call
 back when he was ready.

 I hooked him up a couple weeks ago and we're both happy.

 He knows the rules. He even offered to pay more for his public ip. I
 didn't and generally don't charge extra for ip addresses. And he knows
 to be reasonable about usage.
 Heck I could care less if he used 50 gigs every now and then, but not
 all-the-time

 Now how to explain it to the rest of the market place is going to be the
 hard thing.

 George
 

 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)


I'm paying $150, but I only have 1.  ;-)

Getting together on purchases of things never really seems to get anywhere.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Clint Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)



Not to be overly provocative here, but why are you paying $60/meg?

You're a trade organization...make deals with each other, share your
upstream peers, buy in bulk, and get your $60/meg to $30/meg, $20/meg,
or even lower...

-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies


On 9/10/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Forrest W Christian wrote:

we're trying to rid ourselves of exactly the same people that the cable
companies are ridding
 themselves of - those which expect a full bore pipe for less than it
 costs us to purchase the bandwidth.

I just had a guy who wanted to sign up but wanted to define what speeds
I was going to give him and what exactly he was expecting.
He said, when I buy a 3 meg connection I expect 3 megs all the time.

I asked him if he thought 3 megs all the time meant that when he hit the
speed test button, that it was going to come back every single time at 3
megs or if he meant 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at
3megs a second.

He chose 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at 3megs a
second.

And he wanted a public ip address and no ports blocked.

So I asked him if he thought it was feasible for me to buy bandwidth at
$60+ per meg on a dedicated internet connection and then sell him 3x $60
for $40.00 per month and then to boot buy him a public ip and configure
my routers to his specification.

How long will I stay in business doing that.

We argued a bit about bit caps and consumer broadband connection verses
dedicated business class connectivity. I kept my cool and was even keel,
the guy was getting pissed and disagreeing the deeper I got into
explaining what I was going to be providing and he was going to be
buying. Finally I sent him on his way to google and told him he should
search out comcast and bit caps and give me a call back when he thinks
he can operate on my network with my terms of service.

The guy called back, apologized and explained he misunderstood and and
he expected to pay what he should be paying and would give me a call
back when he was ready.

I hooked him up a couple weeks ago and we're both happy.

He knows the rules. He even offered to pay more for his public ip. I
didn't and generally don't charge extra for ip addresses. And he knows
to be reasonable about usage.
Heck I could care less if he used 50 gigs every now and then, but not
all-the-time

Now how to explain it to the rest of the market place is going to be the
hard thing.

George


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)


Mike Hammett wrote:

I'm paying $150, but I only have 1.  ;-)

Getting together on purchases of things never really seems to get anywhere.

The reason one side has to be the vendor and the other side the 
customer. Nobody seems to want to be the customer of their peer.


-Matt


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)

2007-09-10 Thread Sam Tetherow

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm paying $85/meg but over half that
cost is in transport which I can't do anything about. And before you
tell me to bring it in wirelessly I suggest you do a google map on
Valentine Nebraska ;) The last time I checked I was significantly
cheaper than anywhere within 250 miles.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

Clint Ricker wrote:

Not to be overly provocative here, but why are you paying $60/meg?

You're a trade organization...make deals with each other, share your
upstream peers, buy in bulk, and get your $60/meg to $30/meg, $20/meg,
or even lower...

-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies

On 9/10/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Forrest W Christian wrote:

we're trying to rid ourselves of exactly the same people that the cable
companies are ridding

themselves of - those which expect a full bore pipe for less than it
costs us to purchase the bandwidth.

I just had a guy who wanted to sign up but wanted to define what speeds
I was going to give him and what exactly he was expecting.
He said, when I buy a 3 meg connection I expect 3 megs all the time.

I asked him if he thought 3 megs all the time meant that when he hit the
speed test button, that it was going to come back every single time at 3
megs or if he meant 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at
3megs a second.

He chose 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at 3megs a
second.

And he wanted a public ip address and no ports blocked.

So I asked him if he thought it was feasible for me to buy bandwidth at
$60+ per meg on a dedicated internet connection and then sell him 3x $60
for $40.00 per month and then to boot buy him a public ip and configure
my routers to his specification.

How long will I stay in business doing that.

We argued a bit about bit caps and consumer broadband connection verses
dedicated business class connectivity. I kept my cool and was even keel,
the guy was getting pissed and disagreeing the deeper I got into
explaining what I was going to be providing and he was going to be
buying. Finally I sent him on his way to google and told him he should
search out comcast and bit caps and give me a call back when he thinks
he can operate on my network with my terms of service.

The guy called back, apologized and explained he misunderstood and and
he expected to pay what he should be paying and would give me a call
back when he was ready.

I hooked him up a couple weeks ago and we're both happy.

He knows the rules. He even offered to pay more for his public ip. I
didn't and generally don't charge extra for ip addresses. And he knows
to be reasonable about usage.
Heck I could care less if he used 50 gigs every now and then, but not
all-the-time

Now how to explain it to the rest of the market place is going to be the
hard thing.

George

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

a
href=http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=historyuser=tetherowretrain=spamsignatureID=16,46e5b6c0229681286817381;!DSPAM:16,46e5b6c0229681286817381!/a

[WISPA] Laptop

2007-09-10 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

I need a new one.  Anyone got a laptop that works outside well?  I can't 
see the screen on my dell very well.


Brian


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)

Yeah...I know... been there, done that.

The cable companies and the bells compete with each other over
millions of dollars of business, and yet can somehow release
similtaneous FCC filings, press releases, position papers, and so
forth.

Most independents don't compete with each other, and yet can't work
out deals to reduce their overhead (some out there do this and do
this quite well)

Matt's post about no one wanting to be the customer is right on as
to the reason...but it's a shame.  There are some that do this and
save thousands or more a monthPride can be expensive...

just a thought.


On 9/10/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm paying $150, but I only have 1.  ;-)

 Getting together on purchases of things never really seems to get anywhere.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Clint Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 4:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)


  Not to be overly provocative here, but why are you paying $60/meg?
 
  You're a trade organization...make deals with each other, share your
  upstream peers, buy in bulk, and get your $60/meg to $30/meg, $20/meg,
  or even lower...
 
  -Clint Ricker
  Kentnis Technologies
 
 
  On 9/10/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Forrest W Christian wrote:
 
  we're trying to rid ourselves of exactly the same people that the cable
  companies are ridding
   themselves of - those which expect a full bore pipe for less than it
   costs us to purchase the bandwidth.
 
  I just had a guy who wanted to sign up but wanted to define what speeds
  I was going to give him and what exactly he was expecting.
  He said, when I buy a 3 meg connection I expect 3 megs all the time.
 
  I asked him if he thought 3 megs all the time meant that when he hit the
  speed test button, that it was going to come back every single time at 3
  megs or if he meant 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at
  3megs a second.
 
  He chose 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at 3megs a
  second.
 
  And he wanted a public ip address and no ports blocked.
 
  So I asked him if he thought it was feasible for me to buy bandwidth at
  $60+ per meg on a dedicated internet connection and then sell him 3x $60
  for $40.00 per month and then to boot buy him a public ip and configure
  my routers to his specification.
 
  How long will I stay in business doing that.
 
  We argued a bit about bit caps and consumer broadband connection verses
  dedicated business class connectivity. I kept my cool and was even keel,
  the guy was getting pissed and disagreeing the deeper I got into
  explaining what I was going to be providing and he was going to be
  buying. Finally I sent him on his way to google and told him he should
  search out comcast and bit caps and give me a call back when he thinks
  he can operate on my network with my terms of service.
 
  The guy called back, apologized and explained he misunderstood and and
  he expected to pay what he should be paying and would give me a call
  back when he was ready.
 
  I hooked him up a couple weeks ago and we're both happy.
 
  He knows the rules. He even offered to pay more for his public ip. I
  didn't and generally don't charge extra for ip addresses. And he knows
  to be reasonable about usage.
  Heck I could care less if he used 50 gigs every now and then, but not
  all-the-time
 
  Now how to explain it to the rest of the market place is going to be the
  hard thing.
 
  George
  
 
  ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
  ISPCON **
  ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
  ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
  ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
  ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
  http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **
 
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
  
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
  
 
  ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
  ISPCON **
  ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
  ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
  ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
  ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
  http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)

2007-09-10 Thread Travis Johnson

That doesn't work really well because of the various WISPs around the
entire country. Our biggest expense isn't the actual bandwidth (that's
usually around $20/meg)... it's the cost of the transport from the
closest NOC. For us, that transport is at least 200 miles.

Travis
Microserv

Clint Ricker wrote:

Not to be overly provocative here, but why are you paying $60/meg?

You're a trade organization...make deals with each other, share your
upstream peers, buy in bulk, and get your $60/meg to $30/meg, $20/meg,
or even lower...

-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies

On 9/10/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Forrest W Christian wrote:

we're trying to rid ourselves of exactly the same people that the cable
companies are ridding

themselves of - those which expect a full bore pipe for less than it
costs us to purchase the bandwidth.

I just had a guy who wanted to sign up but wanted to define what speeds
I was going to give him and what exactly he was expecting.
He said, when I buy a 3 meg connection I expect 3 megs all the time.

He chose 3megs all-the-time constantly consuming bandwidth at 3megs a
second.

And he wanted a public ip address and no ports blocked.

How long will I stay in business doing that.

The guy called back, apologized and explained he misunderstood and and
he expected to pay what he should be paying and would give me a call
back when he was ready.

I hooked him up a couple weeks ago and we're both happy.

Now how to explain it to the rest of the market place is going to be the
hard thing.

George

** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!

RE: [WISPA] IPTV

Good point regarding added value to the IP service we are offering.  VoIP
has added a certain stickiness for us already.  If we had IPTV to bundle
in as well it could only help.

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:43 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Brad Belton wrote:
 Correct, we see the same requests.  However, why try re-inventing the
wheel
 when DirecTV already has a solution in place?  Every time this issue has
 popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if
 they only wanted CNN or FOX.
 
Are you reselling DirecTV now?

 It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP
leg
 into a building when the service is already available from the roof where
we
 already have rights.
 
Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. 
If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building.

In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle 
the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use 
more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their 
commit.

-Matt



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] IPTV

Please expand a bit more on your offering.  Inquiring minds want to know.

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Clint Ricker
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:31 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Not ready for prime time...?  There's already several hundred thousand
subscribers on IPTV platforms in the US alone, so I'm not sure what
you're waiting for...  what shortcomings are you seeing?

The technology IS being deployed in prime time scenarios already
(ATT, which is not known for being adventuresome with technology is
the biggest, but not the only domestic example; internationally, it is
being deployed much more widely).

The main problem that WISPs face is that you may have to do some
network overhauls to handle that sort of traffic...

When you resell DirectTV (unless they have changed their model since
2005, which is the last I looked at their agreements), it is more of a
referral/outsourced installation crew than reselling.  It does let you
offer triple play to a point, but (again, unless it's changed), you
can't do single bill and you can't really generate any reoccuring
revenue (which, as a service provider, is where your real profit tends
to be)

Although you do have increased costs in doing your own in terms of
network buildout and so forth, you also effectively (if done right,
profitably) subsidize the buildout of a better network

It probably is not quite viable for ultra-rural WISPs because of
really low densities and so forth.  In areas with higher densities
(definitely MDU), it is viable and deployable

-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies





On 9/10/07, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Agreed, but IMO just not quite ready for prime time . yet.  grin

 Best,

 Brad


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:23 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

 IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold.  You can offer
 thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources.  It doesn't
even
 have to be in the traditional channel format.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV


  Brad Belton wrote:
  We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we
came
  to
  a conclusion years ago.  Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish?
 
  For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with
  you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to
  multiple customers using IP provides different economics.
 
  -Matt
 


 
 
  ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
  ISPCON **
  ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
  ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
  ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
  ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
  http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **
 
 


 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 


 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 



 

 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **

Re: [WISPA] Looking for cheap RAS

2007-09-10 Thread Zack Kneisley

I assume you mean a 3Com Total Control, Cisco 5300, or Ascend.

My personal favorite is the 3Com as I have  worked with these units for over
10 years and they are reliable.

check ebay.. most of the time the shipping cost more than the unit.

On 9/9/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Anyone have a good source or do it yourselfa

 Tnx

 Bob
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 

 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] You're all going to lose ( I hope not)


Clint Ricker wrote:

Not to be overly provocative here, but why are you paying $60/meg?

You're a trade organization...make deals with each other, share your
upstream peers, buy in bulk, and get your $60/meg to $30/meg, $20/meg,
or even lower...

-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies


Hmmm,

How much should I be paying?




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Allen:

Metricom's long out of business, but technologically, they made it
work (albeit at ~28 Kbps, and later ~128 Kbps). One of the key things
they did to make it work at 902-928 MHz is to use FHSS and small
channel sizes rather than fixed, wide channels as all the current
902-928 MHz BWIA gear (except Alvarion's BreezeNet [?].

The earlier version did both mesh and access using 902-928 MHz. The
newer version used 2.3 and 2.4 GHz for the mesh (backhaul) and 902-928
MHz for access only.


Thanks,

Steve


On 9/10/07, Allen Marsalis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Thanks for the reply Steve.  Can you share if they were able to make
 it work or not?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 Allen


-- 

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Looking for cheap RAS

I've got some Patton Electronic 24 port 56k ras's. They all worked great 
when I moved to outsourced modems.


Make me an offer.

George

Zack Kneisley wrote:

I assume you mean a 3Com Total Control, Cisco 5300, or Ascend.

My personal favorite is the 3Com as I have  worked with these units for over
10 years and they are reliable.

check ebay.. most of the time the shipping cost more than the unit.

On 9/9/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Anyone have a good source or do it yourselfa

Tnx

Bob
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org


Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Thank you David for your thoughts on this.  I too am a bit 
skeptical.  :)  Which is why I decided to ask for comments from you 
guys.  There is the additional issue of mesh routing protocols but 
I think (and I mean think) I may have that covered if the physical 
stuff worked out ok.  It's just the whole concept might fall flat for 
a dozen reasons.  I'm trying to figure out how many nodes I would 
need to deploy in a real world test, but I also want to think this 
out before getting that far and spend a bunch of money.  The idea may 
be so bad that testing is unwarranted.


But hey, there must be at least 8 people left in the country without 
broadband, and I want to give it to them! ;)


Allen


At 01:05 PM 9/10/2007, David E. Smith wrote:

Allen Marsalis wrote:


I take it that nobody has ever built a 900MHz NLOS mesh network before.
Which is not a good sign to me.  That's a sign that my idea 
probably won't work.


I'd be very skeptical just because of what I lovingly call the 
Tropos Effect.


Obviously, all these nodes eventually have to come back to... 
somewhere that has a big bad Internet connection. Your office, a 
central tower, whatever. If you're near that tower, you don't have 
much of a problem, as your laptop is talking to a node that's 
talking directly to that point of origin. If you're a few blocks 
away, where your laptop talks to a node that's two or three hops 
away, there's cumulative bandwidth loss and added latency, and just 
more things that can go wrong generally.


Your proposal gets rid of the worst part of how Tropos does things. 
They use the same radio both for inter-node communication and for 
customers, same SSID, same everything; by using separate radios for 
backhaul and customer access, you're already coming out ahead.


There will still be added overhead and latency, the more nodes you 
have to go through, and the folks at the farthest reaches of the 
network won't have as good an experience as the folks close to your 
point of origin.


I'm a bit skeptical. The expense of 900MHz gear, and the sheer 
number of units you'd need to for a wide coverage area, makes this 
seem like a really difficult idea to pull off. Nevertheless, I wish 
you luck, if you do choose to deploy something like that.


David Smith
MVN.net




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] OT: rural WISP testers needed

2007-09-10 Thread Ryan Langseth


Patrick,

What do you have for more information.  I would be interested in it. I 
just need to run it past Phil and Dave.


Thanks,

Ryan

Patrick Leary wrote:

Hi folks,

We are looking for a handful of WISPs to do some product testing on an
entirely new WISP multipoint product line from Alvarion. You need not be
a current Alvarion WISP (and this is not intended for those with
BreezeACCESS VL networks). The line is intended for the most cost
sensitive markets, especially on the residential side. No big strings
attached, but testers would be required to provide detailed feedback on
performance as well as overall value. I am looking for testers who are
in deep rural areas and I am interested in a sampling which could
include U.S., Canada and the Caribbean. Please contact me OFFLIST, but
only if you are serious. I can't offer more detail on the product in
this mail, but the whole WISP market will know about it in short order.

Again, please reach out offlist.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World
Chicago, September 25-27
Booth #409






 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp 
Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer viruses(84). 






 
 


This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer 
viruses.





** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org


Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Thanks George.  Sounds like wise advice to me considering all the 
things happening within the industry in recent years.  Google is 
petitioning the FCC for nationwide prime spectrum?  I'm short a few 
billion it seems..  Even if my idea is technically doable, then I 
must go find the right markets which is a challenge all in itself.  I 
sometimes see data centers and there aren't many dialup customers 
left and lots of empty modems.  How Netzero can still afford to run 
ads I do not know.


Allen


At 03:23 PM 9/10/2007, George Rogato wrote:
I'm glad your still around the industry Allen, every one in a while 
someone says, Where's Allen M? Makes us wonder.
Myself, I would only look at 900 as a temporary frequency to use. 
Maybe a couple years, more in the very rural areas and less urban wise.


Too many others are using 900 or starting to use it. Electric and 
water companies for meter reading, walmart and other bigbox for id 
and our portable phones still use 900 even when their 2.4 or 5.8.


So if building something out and realizing it has a short time span 
works. Then 900 is workable.



George





** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


At 04:00 PM 9/10/2007, John Valenti wrote:

Allen,

It sounds as if you might be proposing this for a suburban or even
tree filled urban environment. One problem you might run into is
clear spectrum in 900MHz.  I've use Trango gear out in rural areas,
where it works OK. I've only done a few scans in the city (East
Lansing and Lansing, specifically). Both of those scans were so
depressing I never tried making any links with 900 in town. All the
channels were what the Trango manual calls unsuitable.


Point noted.  My testing thus far has been at my house which is in an 
remote community a couple miles outside of town.  Results may and 
probably will vary and I get closer to town, but I'm not wanting to 
compete with cable or DSL.  I was hoping to find some still under 
served small towns that would appreciate my services..





I have a few of the SR9 cards and am just starting to work with them.
I read somewhere that Trango (for example) rejects interference
better than the SR9. No personal experience one way or another yet.


I saw were Ubiquiti has cavity filters but I have no idea what they 
cost or how well they work.  I had one Trango 900 POP years ago and 
it worked well.  But 6 sectors ain't happening. (I had only a few 
customers off one sector)  But I'm really thinking in terms of 
multiple radio systems (SBC's) for a number of reasons.





My new rule of thumb with Trango is that I can go 2 miles.



I recall a little bit better for me.  But the spectrum may have been 
really clear.  I didn't have a 900MHz option for my cheap spectrum 
analyzer.  I sold my company not long after hanging that gear.





You might consider a modified mesh structure that uses 2.4 or 5GHz
(or even 900 after testing) to those few LOS houses, then something
like Meraki mesh to connect close neighbors.


Nodding, I have thought in terms of large outter mesh with an inner 
micro mesh structure that isn't intended to go very deep (lots of 
hops)  But out in the boonies, I'm not sure 2.4/5.8 is going to get 
me very far  when houses might be a quarter or half mile apart. (or 
more)  If I did have a tower in the area, perhaps breaks in the 
mesh could be patched with a new homerun shot if you follow me.


Thanks for the feedback

Allen



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


At 05:12 PM 9/10/2007, you wrote:

Allen:

Metricom's long out of business, but technologically, they made it
work (albeit at ~28 Kbps, and later ~128 Kbps). One of the key things
they did to make it work at 902-928 MHz is to use FHSS and small
channel sizes rather than fixed, wide channels as all the current
902-928 MHz BWIA gear (except Alvarion's BreezeNet [?].


I clearly see your point as an old FHSS guy.  hehehe

LOL, between you and me, I would never have waxed so philosophically 
over this idea had it not been for the muni-wifi movement with its 
limited non-overlapping channels. Multiple radio systems got me 
interested in meshing a while back.  I guess I'm not the only one, 
but my market is definitely not city wifi like Strix.





The earlier version did both mesh and access using 902-928 MHz. The
newer version used 2.3 and 2.4 GHz for the mesh (backhaul) and 902-928
MHz for access only.


Gotcha, many thanks for responding to me Steve.  I think there is 
something to be learned under every new stone, and even some old 
stones long forgotten my most...  I barely remember Metricom and 
packet radio.


Hmmm I just saw a HughesNet commercial.  The one with the pretty lady 
in a green dress.  I assume GEO satellite service still stinks to 
high heaven??  I nearly forgot about those guys...  I once knew Avi 
Freedman when he was into some satellite stuff and learned enough not 
to be too scared of the sat guys who have their own unique set of 
expensive problems.


Allen



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] IPTV

Brad,
Here's what I'm looking at, and what would generally be involved...

I do a lot of work with cable / video, and, having previously worked
in the independent ISP industry, I'm familiar with both worlds.

One of the major problems that I see that independents face is that
they are trying to build networks getting about 1/2 to 1/3 of the
revenue of the competition--when your competition gets $120 per
customer instead of your $40 (or whatever), it's hard to build a
competitive network and continually stay ahead of the technology
curve.  Many don't and others just take smaller profit margins or try
to leverage other services (like computer support, etc...).  Still,
it's a harder position to be in.

I've started some discussions about getting content.  It's really a
matter of #s--very few of you have enough subscribers to get very far;
but, if I get enough people interested (I'm talking to some rural
telco's that want to get into this so that's coming along), then I
should be able to push that through, according to the conversations
that I've been having.

Initially, support for WISPs would be fairly limited to either
MDU-setups and limited business programming (like what Matt's looking
for).  This is because wireless is a VERY challenging medium to deal
with since it is basically broadcast and doesn't offer much capacity
to boot (so, the worse of cable HFC and DSL in one package).  It is
also because content providers are particular about protecting their
content, and that...is a challenge since wireless does not necessarily
have the best reputation (kinda funny for an industry built around RF
and satellite).  Still, bandwidth for wireless gear is getting better,
compression is getting better, and, given the right wireless gear and
network design, it is definitely possible to deliver a good IPTV
service to customers.

Clint Ricker
-Kentnis Technologies




On 9/10/07, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Please expand a bit more on your offering.  Inquiring minds want to know.

 Best,


 Brad


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Clint Ricker
 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:31 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV

 Not ready for prime time...?  There's already several hundred thousand
 subscribers on IPTV platforms in the US alone, so I'm not sure what
 you're waiting for...  what shortcomings are you seeing?

 The technology IS being deployed in prime time scenarios already
 (ATT, which is not known for being adventuresome with technology is
 the biggest, but not the only domestic example; internationally, it is
 being deployed much more widely).

 The main problem that WISPs face is that you may have to do some
 network overhauls to handle that sort of traffic...

 When you resell DirectTV (unless they have changed their model since
 2005, which is the last I looked at their agreements), it is more of a
 referral/outsourced installation crew than reselling.  It does let you
 offer triple play to a point, but (again, unless it's changed), you
 can't do single bill and you can't really generate any reoccuring
 revenue (which, as a service provider, is where your real profit tends
 to be)

 Although you do have increased costs in doing your own in terms of
 network buildout and so forth, you also effectively (if done right,
 profitably) subsidize the buildout of a better network

 It probably is not quite viable for ultra-rural WISPs because of
 really low densities and so forth.  In areas with higher densities
 (definitely MDU), it is viable and deployable

 -Clint Ricker
 Kentnis Technologies





 On 9/10/07, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Agreed, but IMO just not quite ready for prime time . yet.  grin
 
  Best,
 
  Brad
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:23 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV
 
  IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold.  You can offer
  thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources.  It doesn't
 even
  have to be in the traditional channel format.
 
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV
 
 
   Brad Belton wrote:
   We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we
 came
   to
   a conclusion years ago.  Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish?
  
   For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with
   you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to
   multiple customers using IP provides different economics.
  
   -Matt
  
 
 
  
  
   ** Join us at the WISPA

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Allen:

While progress in satellite communications can be measured in 5 year
increments - to design, fund, and launch them... technological
progress DOES come, and has. Spot beams are now a standard feature on
all new satellites, and it's beginning to make a big difference. Watch
to see what happens with WildBlue over the next year as they bring
their built-for-purpose satellite online, as opposed to using one
big, continent-spanning transponder technology.

Thanks,

Steve

On 9/10/07, Allen Marsalis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I clearly see your point as an old FHSS guy.  hehehe

 LOL, between you and me, I would never have waxed so philosophically
 over this idea had it not been for the muni-wifi movement with its
 limited non-overlapping channels. Multiple radio systems got me
 interested in meshing a while back.  I guess I'm not the only one,
 but my market is definitely not city wifi like Strix.

 Gotcha, many thanks for responding to me Steve.  I think there is
 something to be learned under every new stone, and even some old
 stones long forgotten my most...  I barely remember Metricom and
 packet radio.

 Hmmm I just saw a HughesNet commercial.  The one with the pretty lady
 in a green dress.  I assume GEO satellite service still stinks to
 high heaven??  I nearly forgot about those guys...  I once knew Avi
 Freedman when he was into some satellite stuff and learned enough not
 to be too scared of the sat guys who have their own unique set of
 expensive problems.

 Allen


-- 

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Allen, great to see you pop up on the list again. You've been missed.

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World
Chicago, September 25-27
Booth #409

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Allen Marsalis
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 3:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Thank you David for your thoughts on this.  I too am a bit 
skeptical.  :)  Which is why I decided to ask for comments from you 
guys.  There is the additional issue of mesh routing protocols but 
I think (and I mean think) I may have that covered if the physical 
stuff worked out ok.  It's just the whole concept might fall flat for 
a dozen reasons.  I'm trying to figure out how many nodes I would 
need to deploy in a real world test, but I also want to think this 
out before getting that far and spend a bunch of money.  The idea may 
be so bad that testing is unwarranted.

But hey, there must be at least 8 people left in the country without 
broadband, and I want to give it to them! ;)

Allen


At 01:05 PM 9/10/2007, David E. Smith wrote:
Allen Marsalis wrote:

I take it that nobody has ever built a 900MHz NLOS mesh network
before.
Which is not a good sign to me.  That's a sign that my idea 
probably won't work.

I'd be very skeptical just because of what I lovingly call the 
Tropos Effect.

Obviously, all these nodes eventually have to come back to... 
somewhere that has a big bad Internet connection. Your office, a 
central tower, whatever. If you're near that tower, you don't have 
much of a problem, as your laptop is talking to a node that's 
talking directly to that point of origin. If you're a few blocks 
away, where your laptop talks to a node that's two or three hops 
away, there's cumulative bandwidth loss and added latency, and just 
more things that can go wrong generally.

Your proposal gets rid of the worst part of how Tropos does things. 
They use the same radio both for inter-node communication and for 
customers, same SSID, same everything; by using separate radios for 
backhaul and customer access, you're already coming out ahead.

There will still be added overhead and latency, the more nodes you 
have to go through, and the folks at the farthest reaches of the 
network won't have as good an experience as the folks close to your 
point of origin.

I'm a bit skeptical. The expense of 900MHz gear, and the sheer 
number of units you'd need to for a wide coverage area, makes this 
seem like a really difficult idea to pull off. Nevertheless, I wish 
you luck, if you do choose to deploy something like that.

David Smith
MVN.net




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190).











This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(43).









 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp 
Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer viruses(84). 









This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer 
viruses.






** Join us at the

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


At 06:37 PM 9/10/2007, Patrick Leary wrote:

Allen, great to see you pop up on the list again. You've been missed.



Thanks Patrick.  I trust all is going well with you.  I hear you are 
now vice president.  Great job!  (I mean that both ways. You do a 
great job and have a great job)  :)   Our kids are all growing 
up!   Your daughter must be what about 7 now.  Am I close?  Mine is 9 
and still wears her oversized Mikrotik and Trango 
T-shirts!  :ducking:   LOL, She's still waiting for her Breezecom t-shirt.. ;)


Allen






** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] FW: Launch of LoKT Telecom/Internet Blog- www.ispcleclaw.com

2007-09-10 Thread Rick Harnish

I have added a link to Kris Twomey's new Blog to the WISPA homepage.
Judging from today’s post, we need to keep our eye open for an upcoming NPRM
on possible use of 2155-2175 mHz.  See excerpt below:  

 

“The FCC refused to grant M2Z's request for a (basically free) national
license in the 2155-2175 MHz spectrum range. Instead, the FCC will open a
formal rulemaking seeking comments on proposed uses of the spectrum. The
spectrum could be sold at auction, or possibly opened to unlicensed use.”

 

Subject: Launch of LoKT Telecom/Internet Blog- www.ispcleclaw.com

 

First I'd like to thank everybody who's been emailing asking what 

happened to the LoKT newsletter. I was surprised how many people enjoyed 

it. After much thought and some procrastination, I decided to officially 

retire the newsletter. In it's place, I have just launched a blog at 

www.ispcleclaw.com. My hope is that the blog format will allow for more 

timely delivery of information than the monthly newsletter did. I'm just 

starting, so if anybody has any thoughts about what would make the blog 

more helpful, please let me know before I get stuck in my ways.

 

Kris

 

-- 

__

Kristopher E. Twomey

Telecom/Internet Law  Regulatory Consulting

www.lokt.net

 

 

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition. 

Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.13/998 - Release Date: 9/10/2007
8:48 AM

 


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.13/998 - Release Date: 9/10/2007
8:48 AM
 


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread Dylan Oliver

Isn't WildBlue actually leasing a HughesNet/DirecWay satellite? Thus sprach
a HughesNet installer, anyway.

On 9/10/07, Steve Stroh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Allen:

 While progress in satellite communications can be measured in 5 year
 increments - to design, fund, and launch them... technological
 progress DOES come, and has. Spot beams are now a standard feature on
 all new satellites, and it's beginning to make a big difference. Watch
 to see what happens with WildBlue over the next year as they bring
 their built-for-purpose satellite online, as opposed to using one
 big, continent-spanning transponder technology.


Best,
-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread Dylan Oliver

Not so. Just look up the opening bid for your CMA..

On 9/10/07, Allen Marsalis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thanks George.  Sounds like wise advice to me considering all the
 things happening within the industry in recent years.  Google is
 petitioning the FCC for nationwide prime spectrum?  I'm short a few
 billion it seems..  Even if my idea is technically doable, then I
 must go find the right markets which is a challenge all in itself.  I
 sometimes see data centers and there aren't many dialup customers
 left and lots of empty modems.  How Netzero can still afford to run
 ads I do not know.

 Allen


 At 03:23 PM 9/10/2007, George Rogato wrote:
 I'm glad your still around the industry Allen, every one in a while
 someone says, Where's Allen M? Makes us wonder.
 Myself, I would only look at 900 as a temporary frequency to use.
 Maybe a couple years, more in the very rural areas and less urban wise.
 
 Too many others are using 900 or starting to use it. Electric and
 water companies for meter reading, walmart and other bigbox for id
 and our portable phones still use 900 even when their 2.4 or 5.8.
 
 So if building something out and realizing it has a short time span
 works. Then 900 is workable.
 
 
 George



 

 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

LOL. My girls are 6.5 and 4 now. They don't care much what the shirt
says so long as it has something sparkly on it. :)  And I have plenty of
old BreezeCOM shirts still. 


Patrick
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Allen Marsalis
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

At 06:37 PM 9/10/2007, Patrick Leary wrote:
Allen, great to see you pop up on the list again. You've been missed.


Thanks Patrick.  I trust all is going well with you.  I hear you are 
now vice president.  Great job!  (I mean that both ways. You do a 
great job and have a great job)  :)   Our kids are all growing 
up!   Your daughter must be what about 7 now.  Am I close?  Mine is 9 
and still wears her oversized Mikrotik and Trango 
T-shirts!  :ducking:   LOL, She's still waiting for her Breezecom
t-shirt.. ;)

Allen







** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190).











This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(42).









 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp 
Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer viruses(84). 









This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  computer 
viruses.






** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread Gino Villarini

I'll bet they prefer the Motorola Canopy T-shirts!

;-) ... ducking!

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

LOL. My girls are 6.5 and 4 now. They don't care much what the shirt
says so long as it has something sparkly on it. :)  And I have plenty of
old BreezeCOM shirts still. 


Patrick
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Allen Marsalis
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

At 06:37 PM 9/10/2007, Patrick Leary wrote:
Allen, great to see you pop up on the list again. You've been missed.


Thanks Patrick.  I trust all is going well with you.  I hear you are 
now vice president.  Great job!  (I mean that both ways. You do a 
great job and have a great job)  :)   Our kids are all growing 
up!   Your daughter must be what about 7 now.  Am I close?  Mine is 9 
and still wears her oversized Mikrotik and Trango 
T-shirts!  :ducking:   LOL, She's still waiting for her Breezecom
t-shirt.. ;)

Allen







** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190).











This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(42).









 This footnote confirms that this email message has been
scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code,
vandals  computer viruses(84).







 
 


This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses.








** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


Does anyone have some to send down?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:35 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


I'll bet they prefer the Motorola Canopy T-shirts!

;-) ... ducking!

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

LOL. My girls are 6.5 and 4 now. They don't care much what the shirt
says so long as it has something sparkly on it. :)  And I have plenty of
old BreezeCOM shirts still.


Patrick
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Allen Marsalis
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

At 06:37 PM 9/10/2007, Patrick Leary wrote:

Allen, great to see you pop up on the list again. You've been missed.



Thanks Patrick.  I trust all is going well with you.  I hear you are
now vice president.  Great job!  (I mean that both ways. You do a
great job and have a great job)  :)   Our kids are all growing
up!   Your daughter must be what about 7 now.  Am I close?  Mine is 9
and still wears her oversized Mikrotik and Trango
T-shirts!  :ducking:   LOL, She's still waiting for her Breezecom
t-shirt.. ;)

Allen







** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190).











This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(42).









 This footnote confirms that this email message has been
scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code,
vandals  computer viruses(84).











This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses.








** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

2007-09-10 Thread Mike Bushard, Jr

Talk to your local sales rep...

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Does anyone have some to send down?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:35 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks


I'll bet they prefer the Motorola Canopy T-shirts!

;-) ... ducking!

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

LOL. My girls are 6.5 and 4 now. They don't care much what the shirt
says so long as it has something sparkly on it. :)  And I have plenty of
old BreezeCOM shirts still.


Patrick
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Allen Marsalis
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

At 06:37 PM 9/10/2007, Patrick Leary wrote:
Allen, great to see you pop up on the list again. You've been missed.


Thanks Patrick.  I trust all is going well with you.  I hear you are
now vice president.  Great job!  (I mean that both ways. You do a
great job and have a great job)  :)   Our kids are all growing
up!   Your daughter must be what about 7 now.  Am I close?  Mine is 9
and still wears her oversized Mikrotik and Trango
T-shirts!  :ducking:   LOL, She's still waiting for her Breezecom
t-shirt.. ;)

Allen







** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(190).











This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by

PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses(42).









 This footnote confirms that this email message has been
scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code,
vandals  computer viruses(84).











This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals 
computer viruses.








** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
ISPCON **
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

Dylan:

WildBlue is leasing satellite transponders for their current service,
but I don't think they have anything to do with Hughes.

Thanks,

Steve


On 9/10/07, Dylan Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Isn't WildBlue actually leasing a HughesNet/DirecWay satellite? Thus sprach
 a HughesNet installer, anyway.
 Best,
 --
 Dylan Oliver
 Primaverity, LLC


-- 

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com


** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

I'm proud to say no Canopy shirts in this house Gino!   I can't 
afford them.  (major ducking)  :)


Allen


At 08:35 PM 9/10/2007, Gino Villarini wrote:

I'll bet they prefer the Motorola Canopy T-shirts!

;-) ... ducking!




** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks