Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
Forrest, let me get back to the very old conversation about why WISPA should organized at least 1500 filings to the FCC by every WISP they could get to act, to say This cannot be done. Before they even bothered to read half of them, the FCC would have been in the process of asking INDUSTRY how to do this, but no, WISPA folks had to play pussyfoot and now we're stuck with an enormous boondoggle, FOR NO BENEFIT TO ANYONE. In spite of people's best efforts at character asassination, I have never once objected to being required to help law enforcement do what it needs to do, so could we dispense with the silly nonsense already? (let me state, that this no benefit to anyone is based on the common sense notion that data interception has specific limitations, both technical and physical, but real, actual, help to law enforcment is not served well by CALEA mandates, and instead, needs a solution suited to data networks, not switched voice calls... thus, huge outlays could be required, for no real gain) You correctly state that there are interesting ways to intercept data traffic. Lots of them. But that's not the problem with CALEA. Believe me, I spent many hours reading the regulations and summaries, etc.Let's start off with a few interesting details, and see what a sticky wicket it REALLY is, because Telco mechanisms are applied to intelligent data networks. 1. No, you cannot just intercept at your access point. Well, unless you own or lease or otherwise have sole access to the tower, building, and cabling it consists of. Did you forget that you are required to guarantee confidentiality, security, and validity of the data you intercept? This means a locked building, secured cable paths, and 0 packet loss. So, you better have a backup, or better yet, a mirroring RAID array on that intercept device.Any lawyer will tell you that you, or your designated non-security risk employee sworn to fidelity, must have sole access, and that ALL the mechanisms must be secured.. like, your building had better have locks not easily defeated, an alarm system and preferrably, live security. 2. Intercept may not change routing, latency, bandwidth, or availability to your customer. Custom routing changes for an individual client is expressly forbidden. Did you miss that? It was very specific. 3. Once your data is collected, it must be remain secure. You must have a safe or a vault in which to keep it, expressly and solely for the purpose of CALEA and cannot be shared with, say, your wife's jewelry. Or, a locked room where nobody enters except for the purpose of CALEA, OR, that person is part of the confidentail collection process. So, you can't collect at your provider, unless your provider is a TTP. Or, you lease lockable space, yadda yadda yadda. You can't collect 'In the field' unless your site is compliant. none of mine are, most of them are decidedly insecure. I dunno who doesn't have shared hut space for a tower, or whatever... mabye some of you do, but that's like 1000 times beyond my budget. I have a lot of AP's in the field, and only ONE of them has a building that's mine. None of the rest actually have a building dedicated to them. Now, I DO NOT HAVE AN OFFICE. I have a workshop, but my customer's data does not physicially pass through it. Nor do I have a NOC. Many of you have just a room or even some shelves around the corner where your stuff sits. Sorry. NOT CALEA COMPLIANT. It must be in a secure room while you intercept. Maybe you could make the case that a secure box would do. Can you stuff your main router and all traffic passing gear into it?Somehow Ill bet not. Now, before you think I'm just running off at the mouth, I have many years of institutional (not school, organizational) education about what security and confidentiality and risk management means and implies. I've been around the block with a medical organization about HIPAA compliance. The poor guy had to remodel his office just to get his computer compliant.These standards are pretty much driven by our legal system and don't in practice vary much from industry to industry. So, Forrest, when I'm talking about CALEA compliance, I'm not talking just about the intercept mechanism and making something intercept. I had a plan for what to do long ago if I had to help out law enforcment. It's perfectly workable. But not CALEA compliant, because I simply cannot. It is simply physcially impossible to to have a wireless network that is fully and completely compliant, in the strict sense. I realize that some of these things have limitations.. like the packet loss issue... But, when they want it all, they mean it all, and lawyers - mostly prosecutors and defense attorneys, don't give a damn about you, only what vengeance they can exact on you if a weakness in your compliance can be found. You're only immune if you're fully
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking Are you deliberately being obtuse? Or at least acting obtuse? Not at all. Any competent network engineer is capable of inserting a packet sniffer at the AP site. Really? What crack you been sniffing, Forrest? Especially one who is capable of engineering a properly engineered network, as you obviously know so much about. Most of the time it involves a hub (or a managed switch capable of mirroring a port - but a dumb ethernet switch) placed between the AP and the rest of the network. Can't be done. In no place on my network does the data flow through ethernet. All routing is done within a single cpu board between an array of wireless interfaces. Most places have no capacity to even power a hub or switch and CERTAINLY no physical place to put it. If you are using the same physical hardware for the AP and the BH, you may need to separate these functions out into two separate pieces of hardware so you can sniff the traffic between them - but like I said, any decent network engineer should be able to understand the concepts of how to make this work. BANGS HEAD ON DESKNO! This is not wanted, practical, or possible for ANY part of my network. Certainly, it cannot be done CALEA compliant. I refer to the previous post I made on the topic... the long one. -forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a better idea. Explain how you do that. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No matter how many times you try to change the subject to you need to help law enforcment, which has NEVER been the issue, it still fails to address the fact that no properly designed and operating wireless network can be CALEA compliant. Explain how your network is designed such that you can't go to an AP site and insert a packet sniffer and gather all of the internet traffic for a specific customer attached to that AP - excluding traffic between two customers on the same AP. That is all that is required for CALEA compliance, thanks to WISPA. -forrest WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking Are you deliberately being obtuse? Or at least acting obtuse? Any competent network engineer is capable of inserting a packet sniffer at the AP site. Especially one who is capable of engineering a properly engineered network, as you obviously know so much about. Most of the time it involves a hub (or a managed switch capable of mirroring a port - but a dumb ethernet switch) placed between the AP and the rest of the network. If you are using the same physical hardware for the AP and the BH, you may need to separate these functions out into two separate pieces of hardware so you can sniff the traffic between them - but like I said, any decent network engineer should be able to understand the concepts of how to make this work. Any competent WISP engineer would understand why you don't do this. -forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a better idea. Explain how you do that. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No matter how many times you try to change the subject to you need to help law enforcment, which has NEVER been the issue, it still fails to address the fact that no properly designed and operating wireless network can be CALEA compliant. Explain how your network is designed such that you can't go to an AP site and insert a packet sniffer and gather all of the internet traffic for a specific customer attached to that AP - excluding traffic between two customers on the same AP. That is all that is required for CALEA compliance, thanks to WISPA. -forrest WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forrest, let me get back to the very old conversation about why WISPA should organized at least 1500 filings to the FCC by every WISP they could get to act, to say This cannot be done. Your fears are unfounded and not based in reality. I understand, now, why you think it will cost so much. You are simply incorrect in nearly all of your assumptions. Have you even read the standard? The Law? Nowhere in either will you find ANY of what you are talking about. 3. Once your data is collected, it must be remain secure. You must have a safe or a vault in which to keep it, expressly and solely for the purpose of This is ludicrous. Your whole post, I mean, not just this one point, though this one is the most laughable. -- *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks* *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Professional Technical Trainer* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Meraki called embarrassment to wi-fi
I overheard a WLAN engineer recently call Meraki an embarassment to wi-fi. I was little suprised, as I've heard decent things about it, considering how scalable it is for being a product that's easy for the masses to implement. Is there something I'm not getting? I've heard that the units break down quite frequently (compared to other more expensive units), but given the fact that they're so cheap, I would imagine the OPEX and CAPEX numbers come about right, particularly for lower end apartment buildings. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - TradeAssociation Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Forrest, let me get back to the very old conversation about why WISPA should organized at least 1500 filings to the FCC by every WISP they could get to act, to say This cannot be done. Before they even bothered to read half of them, the FCC would have been in the process of asking INDUSTRY how to do this, but no, WISPA folks had to play pussyfoot and now we're stuck with an enormous boondoggle, FOR NO BENEFIT TO ANYONE. In spite of people's best efforts at character asassination, I have never once objected to being required to help law enforcement do what it needs to do, so could we dispense with the silly nonsense already? Unless a party files a special petition pursuant to CALEA ยง 107(b), the Commission does not get formally involved with the compliance standards development process. CALEA also does not provide for Commission review of manufacturer-developed solutions. Entities subject to CALEA are responsible for reviewing the Commission's regulations and analyzing how this regulation applies per their specific network architecture. http://www.fcc.gov/calea/ Frank WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change- Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
Mark, How do you connect the cpu board to the wireless devices? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 2:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change- Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking Are you deliberately being obtuse? Or at least acting obtuse? Not at all. Any competent network engineer is capable of inserting a packet sniffer at the AP site. Really? What crack you been sniffing, Forrest? Especially one who is capable of engineering a properly engineered network, as you obviously know so much about. Most of the time it involves a hub (or a managed switch capable of mirroring a port - but a dumb ethernet switch) placed between the AP and the rest of the network. Can't be done. In no place on my network does the data flow through ethernet. All routing is done within a single cpu board between an array of wireless interfaces. Most places have no capacity to even power a hub or switch and CERTAINLY no physical place to put it. If you are using the same physical hardware for the AP and the BH, you may need to separate these functions out into two separate pieces of hardware so you can sniff the traffic between them - but like I said, any decent network engineer should be able to understand the concepts of how to make this work. BANGS HEAD ON DESKNO! This is not wanted, practical, or possible for ANY part of my network. Certainly, it cannot be done CALEA compliant. I refer to the previous post I made on the topic... the long one. -forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a better idea. Explain how you do that. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No matter how many times you try to change the subject to you need to help law enforcment, which has NEVER been the issue, it still fails to address the fact that no properly designed and operating wireless network can be CALEA compliant. Explain how your network is designed such that you can't go to an AP site and insert a packet sniffer and gather all of the internet traffic for a specific customer attached to that AP - excluding traffic between two customers on the same AP. That is all that is required for CALEA compliance, thanks to WISPA. -forrest WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Report: FCC to Punish Comcast Over Web Blocking
I object to this. Here is an example of what I have done regarding my interactions with the FCC in the last year: I was on a conference call with several ranking members of the FCC about a year ago. One of the people on the call was the head of enforcement in DC. I had recently purchased a pair of Alvarion backhaul radios and used my existing (already installed and aimed) Gabriel parabolics from my previous EX-1 link as opposed to the flat panels that they came with. I was getting fed up with their whole certified system crap. I asked the enforcement guy to tell me if I had broken the law. I was very frank and nearly yelling at the guy. I asked him to wear my shoes for one time and told him the scenario and asked him what he would do in my shoes. He promptly told me that there is no reason to ever break the law. (He never answered the question because he did not know if I had broken the law or not. None of them in DC knew the answer which was my point) I told him, in front of many in this association and on the phone at FCC headquarters to come and arrest me and to be sure and arrest the 3000 other people who had done the same thing between DC and Illinois on the way to get me. If that is not taking a stand and showing some balls then kiss my rear quarters. I took a stand with enforcement in DC for you. So get off my ass. By the way, I'll take my week's removal from this week for cussing if that was too much. I have had it with Mr. Conspiracy always slamming us here. So Muddy, when is the last time you told a federal official to come and get you in regard to standing up or our industry? Scriv On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 5:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is what I don't get. I reminded the OP that several ranking members of WISPA have declared objecting to mandates as politics. And, unless I have missed something, WISPA has NEVER officially objected to a single thing the FCC has wanted or gotten or demanded, and if someone suggests they should, immediately, all the long term list members and board members and committee members start hollering Stop being political. Yet, they suggest that our going along with nicely and with a smile will buy us some future favor - the essence of DIRTY POLITICS. And, over the years, WISPA has officially endorsed and approved of all kinds of stuff we should have fought tooth and nail. Why? I don't know. I can't understand it.We're not on record objecting to anything, but many of those things have the capability of putting most or all of us out of business, especially if future personell in DC, who know nothing of representations or negotiations or discussions made historically decide to re-interpret stuff we've already endorsed in the past tense, which basically has taken away any legitemate ability TO object credibly in the future. Yet, here we are, after all the time I've been repeating till Im blue in the face that we need to fight for our survival, and you can easily see that minor opinion changes in DC could ultimately send us to flipping burgers at McDonald's. Yet, everyone's blithely going along with the stop playing politics, it's not nice and will embarrass the wannabe future politicians running WISPA nonsense. And now you want to label me Anarchist? For what purpose? Just because I have the math skills of at least a second grader and can tell that work done for free for the government is bad for my business? Or that I have 20 years experience in small business and loads of experience in how mandates and regulation can be idiotically costly and yet accomplish minimal or no benefit because beaurocracies are horribly incompetent at getting stuff done? That doesn't require me to be political. All it requires is that I have an IQ above 60 and the ability to recognize reality. And you find this so threatening, you have to get personal and attempt character denigration by callign me anarchist. What would objecting to these things cost YOU? If you're going to claim these things dont' benefit you, then it must be that you believe in them, and that makes YOU THE POLITICAL person, not me. There are political ideologies that believe in public control over private business and services. If that's your motivation, then just come out and admit it. By golly, it's about time YOU and all the other people who're whining and moaning start telling the rest us of just what is in this for you? What benefits did you acrue from the CALEA mandates? Reporting mandates? Net Neutrality mandates? You hoping for quid pro quo future benefits from the FCC? ( I gotta bunch of tropical beach front property in Montana to sell you, then ) You hoping for MONEY, in the form of grants or loans or some other taxpayer funding? What is it? Frankly, I don't want any mandates. I kinda hope that Qwest and Comcast get some stupid notion and tick off their customers left and right. If they do, hurrah for
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
I see how reporting helps, but I fail to see how CALEA helps us. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking You don't get it. CALEA was a good thing for WISPA and its members. You need to understand that you pick the battles you feel you can win. WISPA has gained a good amount of respect from the FCC, but this is only one of many battle fronts WISP's are up against. The FIGHT for US battle cry you comment on takes money, time and a good amount off leg work to make things work. You are dealing with a bureau that has many different levels of staffing, it can take weeks to know who to talk to, when and if they will talk to you, will it be ex-parte or not, etc, etc, etc. Understand that the RBOCs and other companies are clamoring for the eyes and ears of those a the FCC, as WISPs need to get to.The fight is not only on the federal level, but also at the state and local levels as well. Frank - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC toPunishComcast Over Web Blocking insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:53 AM Subject: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC to PunishComcast Over Web Blocking I will got out here and say it. There is NO excuse not to support WISPA, NONE! So for all of you on this general list not supporting WISPA, you are losing out on an opportunity to make your livelihood last and support your families for years to come. $25 a month is a small price to pay for some representation in a industry that is supporting yourself and families. I am sure you can find that much on wasted expenses every month. Yes, there is. Until the current leadership gets their head out of the sand and starts fighting FOR US, instead of playing the FCC's patsy, I will not give them another dollar. When the boys came back from DC and posting to the lists that CALEA and the reporting mandates were good things, I could no longer in good conscience give them another dollar to use to use AGAINST US. Whatever they did or said in DC on that topic, IN NO WAY REPRESENTED ME OR THE INTERESTS OF MY BUSINESS OR MY FUTURE. When I saw certain WISPA leadership glom onto the idea of a CALEA mandate being an opportunity to extract more money and blackmail more memberships, I was immediately convinced that they were in it FOR THEM, and not us.I even saw posting by someone who said that CALEA would be good for WISPA. Not good for the members = good for WISPA? Hell NO! I will not play that game. We got local, state and federal governemnt playing that game, why would I voluntarily add WISPA to it? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
I see the value in reporting. I see the value in what WISPA did after CALEA was a requirement. I don't see the value in CALEA itself. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking You don't get it. CALEA was a good thing for WISPA and its members. You need to understand that you pick the battles you feel you can win. WISPA has gained a good amount of respect from the FCC, but this is only one of many battle fronts WISP's are up against. The FIGHT for US battle cry you comment on takes money, time and a good amount off leg work to make things work. You are dealing with a bureau that has many different levels of staffing, it can take weeks to know who to talk to, when and if they will talk to you, will it be ex-parte or not, etc, etc, etc. Understand that the RBOCs and other companies are clamoring for the eyes and ears of those a the FCC, as WISPs need to get to.The fight is not only on the federal level, but also at the state and local levels as well. Frank - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC toPunishComcast Over Web Blocking insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:53 AM Subject: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC to PunishComcast Over Web Blocking I will got out here and say it. There is NO excuse not to support WISPA, NONE! So for all of you on this general list not supporting WISPA, you are losing out on an opportunity to make your livelihood last and support your families for years to come. $25 a month is a small price to pay for some representation in a industry that is supporting yourself and families. I am sure you can find that much on wasted expenses every month. Yes, there is. Until the current leadership gets their head out of the sand and starts fighting FOR US, instead of playing the FCC's patsy, I will not give them another dollar. When the boys came back from DC and posting to the lists that CALEA and the reporting mandates were good things, I could no longer in good conscience give them another dollar to use to use AGAINST US. Whatever they did or said in DC on that topic, IN NO WAY REPRESENTED ME OR THE INTERESTS OF MY BUSINESS OR MY FUTURE. When I saw certain WISPA leadership glom onto the idea of a CALEA mandate being an opportunity to extract more money and blackmail more memberships, I was immediately convinced that they were in it FOR THEM, and not us.I even saw posting by someone who said that CALEA would be good for WISPA. Not good for the members = good for WISPA? Hell NO! I will not play that game. We got local, state and federal governemnt playing that game, why would I voluntarily add WISPA to it? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Meraki called embarrassment to wi-fi
I overheard a WLAN engineer recently call Meraki an embarassment to wi-fi. I was little suprised, as I've heard decent things about it, considering how scalable it is for being a product that's easy for the masses to implement. Is there something I'm not getting? I've heard that the units break down quite frequently (compared to other more expensive units), but given the fact that they're so cheap, I would imagine the OPEX and CAPEX numbers come about right, particularly for lower end apartment buildings. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change- Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
Since there's only a couple home brew systems left, I'm going to perhaps incorrectly assume Mikrotik. Mikrotik itself has a CALEA sniffer, so you could even do it on the CPE, in software, no extra hardware required. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 1:32 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change- Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking Are you deliberately being obtuse? Or at least acting obtuse? Not at all. Any competent network engineer is capable of inserting a packet sniffer at the AP site. Really? What crack you been sniffing, Forrest? Especially one who is capable of engineering a properly engineered network, as you obviously know so much about. Most of the time it involves a hub (or a managed switch capable of mirroring a port - but a dumb ethernet switch) placed between the AP and the rest of the network. Can't be done. In no place on my network does the data flow through ethernet. All routing is done within a single cpu board between an array of wireless interfaces. Most places have no capacity to even power a hub or switch and CERTAINLY no physical place to put it. If you are using the same physical hardware for the AP and the BH, you may need to separate these functions out into two separate pieces of hardware so you can sniff the traffic between them - but like I said, any decent network engineer should be able to understand the concepts of how to make this work. BANGS HEAD ON DESKNO! This is not wanted, practical, or possible for ANY part of my network. Certainly, it cannot be done CALEA compliant. I refer to the previous post I made on the topic... the long one. -forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a better idea. Explain how you do that. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No matter how many times you try to change the subject to you need to help law enforcment, which has NEVER been the issue, it still fails to address the fact that no properly designed and operating wireless network can be CALEA compliant. Explain how your network is designed such that you can't go to an AP site and insert a packet sniffer and gather all of the internet traffic for a specific customer attached to that AP - excluding traffic between two customers on the same AP. That is all that is required for CALEA compliance, thanks to WISPA. -forrest WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
[WISPA] Brand new in box old 7.2.9 5.2Ghz SMs
I have 25 brand new, still in box 5.2 SMs, not Advantage, that have been sitting on the shelf too long. Would anyone be interested, I'll throw in free shipping. Hit me offline. -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
Because you are not a cop. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking I see the value in reporting. I see the value in what WISPA did after CALEA was a requirement. I don't see the value in CALEA itself. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking You don't get it. CALEA was a good thing for WISPA and its members. You need to understand that you pick the battles you feel you can win. WISPA has gained a good amount of respect from the FCC, but this is only one of many battle fronts WISP's are up against. The FIGHT for US battle cry you comment on takes money, time and a good amount off leg work to make things work. You are dealing with a bureau that has many different levels of staffing, it can take weeks to know who to talk to, when and if they will talk to you, will it be ex-parte or not, etc, etc, etc. Understand that the RBOCs and other companies are clamoring for the eyes and ears of those a the FCC, as WISPs need to get to.The fight is not only on the federal level, but also at the state and local levels as well. Frank - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC toPunishComcast Over Web Blocking insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:53 AM Subject: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC to PunishComcast Over Web Blocking I will got out here and say it. There is NO excuse not to support WISPA, NONE! So for all of you on this general list not supporting WISPA, you are losing out on an opportunity to make your livelihood last and support your families for years to come. $25 a month is a small price to pay for some representation in a industry that is supporting yourself and families. I am sure you can find that much on wasted expenses every month. Yes, there is. Until the current leadership gets their head out of the sand and starts fighting FOR US, instead of playing the FCC's patsy, I will not give them another dollar. When the boys came back from DC and posting to the lists that CALEA and the reporting mandates were good things, I could no longer in good conscience give them another dollar to use to use AGAINST US. Whatever they did or said in DC on that topic, IN NO WAY REPRESENTED ME OR THE INTERESTS OF MY BUSINESS OR MY FUTURE. When I saw certain WISPA leadership glom onto the idea of a CALEA mandate being an opportunity to extract more money and blackmail more memberships, I was immediately convinced that they were in it FOR THEM, and not us. I even saw posting by someone who said that CALEA would be good for WISPA. Not good for the members = good for WISPA? Hell NO! I will not play that game. We got local, state and federal governemnt playing that game, why would I voluntarily add WISPA to it? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Meraki called embarrassment to wi-fi
The main argument is that they had a nice scalable open(able) platform when they had the $49 Minis. They enticed everyone to get on board with a pretty interface. Then they took the standard Mini and put advertising on it, forcing you to either upgrade or stop using it. Now they are big, the standard minis have automatic advertising, and if you don't like that you can buy the $149 Pro model, so basically, you're taxed $100 if you don't like their ads, when in reality the similar SOC unit with Open-Mesh from Accton is less than $40 in quanities of 20 with no advertising, and soon to have support for a billing option that uses your credit card gateway (i.e. no 20% fee). That said, I have a 120 unit building with about 20 Meraki Pro's with billing turned on, that generates about $250-400 a month in revenue (usually about 15-20 users a month @ $20 each), that I get a check in the mail monthly, I never really do anything, signup is automatic, no servers required. They send you an email (which could be email to SMS for a text message) if a unit doesn't respond for 60 minutes. Their software shows uptime, bandwidth usage, everything you could ask for pretty much. I've had more stolen than fail, actually (velcro-secured back then). In fact from October 2007 until now, I've never had one go bad but I've had 4 go missing. - Original Message - From: Rogelio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 3:41 AM Subject: [WISPA] Meraki called embarrassment to wi-fi I overheard a WLAN engineer recently call Meraki an embarassment to wi-fi. I was little suprised, as I've heard decent things about it, considering how scalable it is for being a product that's easy for the masses to implement. Is there something I'm not getting? I've heard that the units break down quite frequently (compared to other more expensive units), but given the fact that they're so cheap, I would imagine the OPEX and CAPEX numbers come about right, particularly for lower end apartment buildings. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topicchange- Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast OverWeb Blocking
Like it should be, snapped in. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Jeff Broadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 5:03 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topicchange- Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast OverWeb Blocking Mark, How do you connect the cpu board to the wireless devices? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 2:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change- Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking Are you deliberately being obtuse? Or at least acting obtuse? Not at all. Any competent network engineer is capable of inserting a packet sniffer at the AP site. Really? What crack you been sniffing, Forrest? Especially one who is capable of engineering a properly engineered network, as you obviously know so much about. Most of the time it involves a hub (or a managed switch capable of mirroring a port - but a dumb ethernet switch) placed between the AP and the rest of the network. Can't be done. In no place on my network does the data flow through ethernet. All routing is done within a single cpu board between an array of wireless interfaces. Most places have no capacity to even power a hub or switch and CERTAINLY no physical place to put it. If you are using the same physical hardware for the AP and the BH, you may need to separate these functions out into two separate pieces of hardware so you can sniff the traffic between them - but like I said, any decent network engineer should be able to understand the concepts of how to make this work. BANGS HEAD ON DESKNO! This is not wanted, practical, or possible for ANY part of my network. Certainly, it cannot be done CALEA compliant. I refer to the previous post I made on the topic... the long one. -forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a better idea. Explain how you do that. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No matter how many times you try to change the subject to you need to help law enforcment, which has NEVER been the issue, it still fails to address the fact that no properly designed and operating wireless network can be CALEA compliant. Explain how your network is designed such that you can't go to an AP site and insert a packet sniffer and gather all of the internet traffic for a specific customer attached to that AP - excluding traffic between two customers on the same AP. That is all that is required for CALEA compliance, thanks to WISPA. -forrest WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
This is where I am sadly going to post to you sometime in the near future... I told you so. And that will be the saddest day for all of us. I have no unfounded fears. I just read and understand precisely what these things mean. It won't be the first one, it won't be the second one. It may not even be the first time someone's data doesn't work out for LEA that things go sour. But it WILL happen. YOU will find yourself explaining your mechanism for security, confidentiality, and so on. And those are the aspects that will kill us. No matter what the folks who liason with you at the FCC or FBI, they don't speak for the irritated prosecutors or agents who will not have had ny quality control over the data themselves, and so will dump on YOU.And they do intend for you to do this JUST LIKE THE PHONE COMPANY. That means the locked buildings, the hard lines, the secure data storage, and on and on.I'm not kidding. There's a reason the reports insist on you explaining your plan for each of these things, including the chain of custody for the data and your security plan. They expect a specific set of circumstances, and to them, that's what CALEA means to them. How many times have we seen a big flap in the news because some low level flunkie took a laptop home, or whatever?Those are only the things that make the news. How long will you be collecting data? Are you going to have someone to physically be there? If not, and if the location isn't secure, alarmed, and locked, POOF. You're toast. And so's the case for the LEA. Your data has obvious gaps in the packets... Do you think that there's packet loss between the access point and my collection point going to mollify someone wanting to make an example of you?Nope. First rule of law... if you can't prosecute the criminal, get the guy watching him YOU will be the target and they'll come guns blazing. It would be better for you to say you can't do it, than to do it and then let them down. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forrest, let me get back to the very old conversation about why WISPA should organized at least 1500 filings to the FCC by every WISP they could get to act, to say This cannot be done. Your fears are unfounded and not based in reality. I understand, now, why you think it will cost so much. You are simply incorrect in nearly all of your assumptions. Have you even read the standard? The Law? Nowhere in either will you find ANY of what you are talking about. 3. Once your data is collected, it must be remain secure. You must have a safe or a vault in which to keep it, expressly and solely for the purpose of This is ludicrous. Your whole post, I mean, not just this one point, though this one is the most laughable. -- *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks* *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Professional Technical Trainer* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
I AM a telephone company and I am a WISP and I have participated in lawful intercepts of data and call information on multiple occasions. You are paranoid. Cops just want the best you can give them as quick as you can give it to them. If you get stupid with them, then maybe you will have reason to fear. Hmmm, that might explain some of your posts... - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking This is where I am sadly going to post to you sometime in the near future... I told you so. And that will be the saddest day for all of us. I have no unfounded fears. I just read and understand precisely what these things mean. It won't be the first one, it won't be the second one. It may not even be the first time someone's data doesn't work out for LEA that things go sour. But it WILL happen. YOU will find yourself explaining your mechanism for security, confidentiality, and so on. And those are the aspects that will kill us. No matter what the folks who liason with you at the FCC or FBI, they don't speak for the irritated prosecutors or agents who will not have had ny quality control over the data themselves, and so will dump on YOU.And they do intend for you to do this JUST LIKE THE PHONE COMPANY. That means the locked buildings, the hard lines, the secure data storage, and on and on.I'm not kidding. There's a reason the reports insist on you explaining your plan for each of these things, including the chain of custody for the data and your security plan. They expect a specific set of circumstances, and to them, that's what CALEA means to them. How many times have we seen a big flap in the news because some low level flunkie took a laptop home, or whatever?Those are only the things that make the news. How long will you be collecting data? Are you going to have someone to physically be there? If not, and if the location isn't secure, alarmed, and locked, POOF. You're toast. And so's the case for the LEA. Your data has obvious gaps in the packets... Do you think that there's packet loss between the access point and my collection point going to mollify someone wanting to make an example of you?Nope. First rule of law... if you can't prosecute the criminal, get the guy watching him YOU will be the target and they'll come guns blazing. It would be better for you to say you can't do it, than to do it and then let them down. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forrest, let me get back to the very old conversation about why WISPA should organized at least 1500 filings to the FCC by every WISP they could get to act, to say This cannot be done. Your fears are unfounded and not based in reality. I understand, now, why you think it will cost so much. You are simply incorrect in nearly all of your assumptions. Have you even read the standard? The Law? Nowhere in either will you find ANY of what you are talking about. 3. Once your data is collected, it must be remain secure. You must have a safe or a vault in which to keep it, expressly and solely for the purpose of This is ludicrous. Your whole post, I mean, not just this one point, though this one is the most laughable. -- *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks* *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Professional Technical Trainer* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
Don't you protect your NOC Muddy? My NOC is already locked and I pay $30 a month for alarm service. I have been doing that for 6 years already. I also have a camera system which monitors the front door and stores all the video of entry and exit to my NOC. I did this prior to CALEA because I want that level of security myself. It is just common sense to do these things as far as I am concerned. The rest of what you are saying sounds like FUD to me. Scriv On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is where I am sadly going to post to you sometime in the near future... I told you so. And that will be the saddest day for all of us. I have no unfounded fears. I just read and understand precisely what these things mean. It won't be the first one, it won't be the second one. It may not even be the first time someone's data doesn't work out for LEA that things go sour. But it WILL happen. YOU will find yourself explaining your mechanism for security, confidentiality, and so on. And those are the aspects that will kill us. No matter what the folks who liason with you at the FCC or FBI, they don't speak for the irritated prosecutors or agents who will not have had ny quality control over the data themselves, and so will dump on YOU.And they do intend for you to do this JUST LIKE THE PHONE COMPANY. That means the locked buildings, the hard lines, the secure data storage, and on and on.I'm not kidding. There's a reason the reports insist on you explaining your plan for each of these things, including the chain of custody for the data and your security plan. They expect a specific set of circumstances, and to them, that's what CALEA means to them. How many times have we seen a big flap in the news because some low level flunkie took a laptop home, or whatever?Those are only the things that make the news. How long will you be collecting data? Are you going to have someone to physically be there? If not, and if the location isn't secure, alarmed, and locked, POOF. You're toast. And so's the case for the LEA. Your data has obvious gaps in the packets... Do you think that there's packet loss between the access point and my collection point going to mollify someone wanting to make an example of you?Nope. First rule of law... if you can't prosecute the criminal, get the guy watching him YOU will be the target and they'll come guns blazing. It would be better for you to say you can't do it, than to do it and then let them down. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forrest, let me get back to the very old conversation about why WISPA should organized at least 1500 filings to the FCC by every WISP they could get to act, to say This cannot be done. Your fears are unfounded and not based in reality. I understand, now, why you think it will cost so much. You are simply incorrect in nearly all of your assumptions. Have you even read the standard? The Law? Nowhere in either will you find ANY of what you are talking about. 3. Once your data is collected, it must be remain secure. You must have a safe or a vault in which to keep it, expressly and solely for the purpose of This is ludicrous. Your whole post, I mean, not just this one point, though this one is the most laughable. -- *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks* *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Professional Technical Trainer* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - TradeAssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
Please don't get into this... We all know where this conversation leads... We've seen it so many times before... Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - TradeAssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking I AM a telephone company and I am a WISP and I have participated in lawful intercepts of data and call information on multiple occasions. You are paranoid. Cops just want the best you can give them as quick as you can give it to them. If you get stupid with them, then maybe you will have reason to fear. Hmmm, that might explain some of your posts... - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking This is where I am sadly going to post to you sometime in the near future... I told you so. And that will be the saddest day for all of us. I have no unfounded fears. I just read and understand precisely what these things mean. It won't be the first one, it won't be the second one. It may not even be the first time someone's data doesn't work out for LEA that things go sour. But it WILL happen. YOU will find yourself explaining your mechanism for security, confidentiality, and so on. And those are the aspects that will kill us. No matter what the folks who liason with you at the FCC or FBI, they don't speak for the irritated prosecutors or agents who will not have had ny quality control over the data themselves, and so will dump on YOU. And they do intend for you to do this JUST LIKE THE PHONE COMPANY. That means the locked buildings, the hard lines, the secure data storage, and on and on.I'm not kidding. There's a reason the reports insist on you explaining your plan for each of these things, including the chain of custody for the data and your security plan. They expect a specific set of circumstances, and to them, that's what CALEA means to them. How many times have we seen a big flap in the news because some low level flunkie took a laptop home, or whatever?Those are only the things that make the news. How long will you be collecting data? Are you going to have someone to physically be there? If not, and if the location isn't secure, alarmed, and locked, POOF. You're toast. And so's the case for the LEA. Your data has obvious gaps in the packets... Do you think that there's packet loss between the access point and my collection point going to mollify someone wanting to make an example of you?Nope. First rule of law... if you can't prosecute the criminal, get the guy watching him YOU will be the target and they'll come guns blazing. It would be better for you to say you can't do it, than to do it and then let them down. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forrest, let me get back to the very old conversation about why WISPA should organized at least 1500 filings to the FCC by every WISP they could get to act, to say This cannot be done. Your fears are unfounded and not based in reality. I understand, now, why you think it will cost so much. You are simply incorrect in nearly all of your assumptions. Have you even read the standard? The Law? Nowhere in either will you find ANY of what you are talking about. 3. Once your data is collected, it must be remain secure. You must have a safe or a vault in which to keep it, expressly and solely for the purpose of This is ludicrous. Your whole post, I mean, not just this one point, though this one is the most laughable. -- *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks* *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Professional Technical Trainer* - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - TradeAssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
I've been told the same thing off-the-record by FBI personnel. My guess is that they will be more insistent on CALEA compliance as time goes on though. Still wonder what they do with encrypted traffic though... Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - TradeAssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking I AM a telephone company and I am a WISP and I have participated in lawful intercepts of data and call information on multiple occasions. You are paranoid. Cops just want the best you can give them as quick as you can give it to them. If you get stupid with them, then maybe you will have reason to fear. Hmmm, that might explain some of your posts... - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking This is where I am sadly going to post to you sometime in the near future... I told you so. And that will be the saddest day for all of us. I have no unfounded fears. I just read and understand precisely what these things mean. It won't be the first one, it won't be the second one. It may not even be the first time someone's data doesn't work out for LEA that things go sour. But it WILL happen. YOU will find yourself explaining your mechanism for security, confidentiality, and so on. And those are the aspects that will kill us. No matter what the folks who liason with you at the FCC or FBI, they don't speak for the irritated prosecutors or agents who will not have had ny quality control over the data themselves, and so will dump on YOU.And they do intend for you to do this JUST LIKE THE PHONE COMPANY. That means the locked buildings, the hard lines, the secure data storage, and on and on.I'm not kidding. There's a reason the reports insist on you explaining your plan for each of these things, including the chain of custody for the data and your security plan. They expect a specific set of circumstances, and to them, that's what CALEA means to them. How many times have we seen a big flap in the news because some low level flunkie took a laptop home, or whatever?Those are only the things that make the news. How long will you be collecting data? Are you going to have someone to physically be there? If not, and if the location isn't secure, alarmed, and locked, POOF. You're toast. And so's the case for the LEA. Your data has obvious gaps in the packets... Do you think that there's packet loss between the access point and my collection point going to mollify someone wanting to make an example of you?Nope. First rule of law... if you can't prosecute the criminal, get the guy watching him YOU will be the target and they'll come guns blazing. It would be better for you to say you can't do it, than to do it and then let them down. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forrest, let me get back to the very old conversation about why WISPA should organized at least 1500 filings to the FCC by every WISP they could get to act, to say This cannot be done. Your fears are unfounded and not based in reality. I understand, now, why you think it will cost so much. You are simply incorrect in nearly all of your assumptions. Have you even read the standard? The Law? Nowhere in either will you find ANY of what you are talking about. 3. Once your data is collected, it must be remain secure. You must have a safe or a vault in which to keep it, expressly and solely for the purpose of This is ludicrous. Your whole post, I mean, not just this one point, though this one is the most laughable. -- *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks* *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Professional Technical Trainer* - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC to PunishComcast Over Web Blocking
Can we please kill this thread, nothing new has been said in it in the last three days (or year...), its redundant and repetitive. Ryan -- Ryan Langseth System Administrator InvisiMax email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 218.745.6030 Cell: 701.739.1577 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall)
As some of you may (or may not) know, we used to organize large trade shows several years ago...at its height, WiNOG had over 500+ attendees with 50+ exhibiting sponsors (I still have pictures of Rick Harnish and Mac Dearman @ the inaugural WISPA meeting in Chicago almost 3+ years ago =) In 2006, I decided to put an end to the large shows and change the format into a 1-day traveling road-show due to the fact for the there hasn't really been anything all that exciting out there in the market that would drive traffic to get me to put forth the effort to organize a large show...That said, I believe that with recent market developments, including the release of the 3.65 GHz band, the commercialization of WiMAX equipment in the US and the maturation of the market, I have enough stuff to work with to build an interesting content program. That said, before I go out and spend a lot of time and effort throwing something together, I'd like to get a feel for what people feel: Here are my thoughts 1. WiMAX World 2008 is scheduled for Sept 30-Oct 2, 2008 (Tuesday-Thursday) in Chicago...with 100+ exhibitors, it makes for a pretty large gathering of the wireless operator industry 2. While WiMAX World has a lot of people coming together, it's focusing more on large mobile broadband operators (ClearWire / Sprint) and the 802.16e WiMAX standard instead of small-to-medium operators who would utilize 802.16d (fixed) WiMAX 3. A three-day conference pass for WiMAX World costs almost $2,000...additionally, in looking at the programming, it seems more suited for Wall-Street / Gartner-type Analysts than for operators deploying systems in the field 4. WiMAX World (Yankee Group) is aware that they're content program doesn't really cater to the small-to-medium fixed-wireless operators, so they've come to me with a proposal to put together a more focused / targeted program on the side (that's also cheaper) Here's my idea 1. Do WiNOG as a smaller sub-get-together (100 or so people) focused on the specific issues of fixed-operators on September 29-30 (Monday-Tuesday) right before WiMAX World 2. Make WiNOG affordable to the network operators (have 2 tiers of admissions - 1 tier for service providers at say $95 to pay for food and another tier for vendors / consultants / random people at $500+) 3. Give attendees of WiNOG (through some cross-promotional agreement) the ability to go to the WiMAX World Exhibit hall for free on Oct 1-2 (Wednesday / Thursday), so they would get the focused content and operator peer-to-peer discussion along with the chance to experience a massive exhibit hall Thoughts? Comments? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] THREAD CLOSED: RE: Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC to PunishComcast Over Web Blocking
We have seen enough hashing of this topic. Now it is getting personal. Thread Closed. Mike Delp (New Moderator) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Langseth Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC to PunishComcast Over Web Blocking Can we please kill this thread, nothing new has been said in it in the last three days (or year...), its redundant and repetitive. Ryan -- Ryan Langseth System Administrator InvisiMax email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 218.745.6030 Cell: 701.739.1577 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall)
I would probably go. Brian Charles Wu wrote: As some of you may (or may not) know, we used to organize large trade shows several years ago...at its height, WiNOG had over 500+ attendees with 50+ exhibiting sponsors (I still have pictures of Rick Harnish and Mac Dearman @ the inaugural WISPA meeting in Chicago almost 3+ years ago =) In 2006, I decided to put an end to the large shows and change the format into a 1-day traveling road-show due to the fact for the there hasn't really been anything all that exciting out there in the market that would drive traffic to get me to put forth the effort to organize a large show...That said, I believe that with recent market developments, including the release of the 3.65 GHz band, the commercialization of WiMAX equipment in the US and the maturation of the market, I have enough stuff to work with to build an interesting content program. That said, before I go out and spend a lot of time and effort throwing something together, I'd like to get a feel for what people feel: Here are my thoughts 1. WiMAX World 2008 is scheduled for Sept 30-Oct 2, 2008 (Tuesday-Thursday) in Chicago...with 100+ exhibitors, it makes for a pretty large gathering of the wireless operator industry 2. While WiMAX World has a lot of people coming together, it's focusing more on large mobile broadband operators (ClearWire / Sprint) and the 802.16e WiMAX standard instead of small-to-medium operators who would utilize 802.16d (fixed) WiMAX 3. A three-day conference pass for WiMAX World costs almost $2,000...additionally, in looking at the programming, it seems more suited for Wall-Street / Gartner-type Analysts than for operators deploying systems in the field 4. WiMAX World (Yankee Group) is aware that they're content program doesn't really cater to the small-to-medium fixed-wireless operators, so they've come to me with a proposal to put together a more focused / targeted program on the side (that's also cheaper) Here's my idea 1. Do WiNOG as a smaller sub-get-together (100 or so people) focused on the specific issues of fixed-operators on September 29-30 (Monday-Tuesday) right before WiMAX World 2. Make WiNOG affordable to the network operators (have 2 tiers of admissions - 1 tier for service providers at say $95 to pay for food and another tier for vendors / consultants / random people at $500+) 3. Give attendees of WiNOG (through some cross-promotional agreement) the ability to go to the WiMAX World Exhibit hall for free on Oct 1-2 (Wednesday / Thursday), so they would get the focused content and operator peer-to-peer discussion along with the chance to experience a massive exhibit hall Thoughts? Comments? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall)
I'd go On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would probably go. Brian Charles Wu wrote: As some of you may (or may not) know, we used to organize large trade shows several years ago...at its height, WiNOG had over 500+ attendees with 50+ exhibiting sponsors (I still have pictures of Rick Harnish and Mac Dearman @ the inaugural WISPA meeting in Chicago almost 3+ years ago =) In 2006, I decided to put an end to the large shows and change the format into a 1-day traveling road-show due to the fact for the there hasn't really been anything all that exciting out there in the market that would drive traffic to get me to put forth the effort to organize a large show...That said, I believe that with recent market developments, including the release of the 3.65 GHz band, the commercialization of WiMAX equipment in the US and the maturation of the market, I have enough stuff to work with to build an interesting content program. That said, before I go out and spend a lot of time and effort throwing something together, I'd like to get a feel for what people feel: Here are my thoughts 1. WiMAX World 2008 is scheduled for Sept 30-Oct 2, 2008 (Tuesday-Thursday) in Chicago...with 100+ exhibitors, it makes for a pretty large gathering of the wireless operator industry 2. While WiMAX World has a lot of people coming together, it's focusing more on large mobile broadband operators (ClearWire / Sprint) and the 802.16e WiMAX standard instead of small-to-medium operators who would utilize 802.16d (fixed) WiMAX 3. A three-day conference pass for WiMAX World costs almost $2,000...additionally, in looking at the programming, it seems more suited for Wall-Street / Gartner-type Analysts than for operators deploying systems in the field 4. WiMAX World (Yankee Group) is aware that they're content program doesn't really cater to the small-to-medium fixed-wireless operators, so they've come to me with a proposal to put together a more focused / targeted program on the side (that's also cheaper) Here's my idea 1. Do WiNOG as a smaller sub-get-together (100 or so people) focused on the specific issues of fixed-operators on September 29-30 (Monday-Tuesday) right before WiMAX World 2. Make WiNOG affordable to the network operators (have 2 tiers of admissions - 1 tier for service providers at say $95 to pay for food and another tier for vendors / consultants / random people at $500+) 3. Give attendees of WiNOG (through some cross-promotional agreement) the ability to go to the WiMAX World Exhibit hall for free on Oct 1-2 (Wednesday / Thursday), so they would get the focused content and operator peer-to-peer discussion along with the chance to experience a massive exhibit hall Thoughts? Comments? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - TradeAssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
OK, Whats the correct way to intercept IP communications, then? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - TradeAssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking I still don't get it. I really don't. CALEA was designed for a telco network. It is simply NOT APPLICABLE in design or function to a multi-homed IP network. I keep hearing how so much time and effort was put into this... But I can explain in plain, clear, and unmistakeable language to any reasonably intelligent person how it is simply not the way to intercept IP communications. Yet nobody has claimed they attempted to even explain this, nor even object, much less state this is impossible in a properly designed wireless IP network. Didn't anyone even try? It appears not. Rather, it looks to me like all WISPA did was get some lubrication for the square peg to go into the round hole. Obligation to help law enforcement? This is stated up front, in my sales contract, LONG BEFORE CALEA WAS EVER HEARD OF, that I will assist law enforcement any way I can in criminal investigation. No matter how many times you try to change the subject to you need to help law enforcment, which has NEVER been the issue, it still fails to address the fact that no properly designed and operating wireless network can be CALEA compliant. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade AssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking We have had the CALEA pain in the telco side for a decade. Believe me, it was much more expensive to become compliant if you were a LEC. Fact of the matter is that the internet is becoming the defacto alternate PSTN network and when you are a public utility you become beholden to the public you serve and the greater good. If a bad guy is hiding behind your network, being a good corporate citizen of this nation, it is your duty to help law enforcement do their job. Telcos did not like CALEA any more than the ISPs. Actually, the FBI and CALEA vendors are the only ones that liked CALEA. An analogy would be, if we discovered a way to transport water over the internet, and people started using IP water than the city water lines, don't you think that the health department ought to then become interested in the quality of the water you sell? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 2:04 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking You don't get it. CALEA was a good thing for WISPA and its members. No, of course I don't get it. This has got to be one of the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life. I can find NO benefit to it of ANY kind. Nor has anyone I know of explained a single benefit, ever. It is a mandate on how a network must function, a limitation to equipment, software, topology, and redundancy, and an absurd notion in the first place. It is a direct requirement to dumb-down and overbuild bandwidth, with NO return of ANY kind, financial or otherwise. A good thing? Obviously, you're in the camp that expecting to get money ripped out of someone else's pockets and headed your way. Or, just try to explain it. Nobody has till now. They make the statement, but the logic used is an insult to our intelligence. You need to understand that you pick the battles you feel you can win. WISPA has gained a good amount of respect from the FCC, but this is only one of many battle fronts WISP's are up against. Gained respect? Please. This is imaginary nonsense. We're forgotten faster than styrofoam cup in a hurricane. We haven't got the millions to bribe them with, so there is no amount of positive influence we can have. The FIGHT for US battle cry you comment on takes money, time and a good amount off leg work to make things work. No kidding. I agree entirely. But when people start the comments like CALEA is good for us, whatever agenda they have in mind is NOT the well being of WISP's, but some kind of other agenda. You are dealing with a bureau that has many different levels of staffing, it can
Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM
Actually...if you're willing to accept Class B status under Part 101, you can even get a 2' in 11 GHz NOTE: Class B is still MILES ahead of anything unlicensed -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brownson Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Correct. Normally 4 ft is the standard. But in most areas of the country you can request an exception and go down to a 2.5 ft. It has something to do with locations near certain military installations. Mike B On 7/10/08 10:42 AM, 3-dB Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5' Minimum on 11GHz Daniel White -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Doesn't 11Ghz have a 4' minimum or was that changed? Last rumor I heard was you might be able to get a 3' or possibly even a 2' approved for 11GHz, but if it becomes a problem then you'll be forced to change to an antenna that doesn't cause a problem with a tighter pattern...like 4'. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Regs are 6' minimum high performance dish at 6 GHz unless something changed recently. At 11 Ghz you should be able to get 99.99 and use the 5 Ghz to back it up Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jonathan Auer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:17:07 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Not really. The biggest I can use are 3' On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have facilities to mount 6' antennas at any real height?? You may be able to get away with 11 GHz... Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jonathan Auer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:57:06 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Does anyone have a Radio Mobile antenna pattern for the Dragonwave Horizon Compact? Is there a better tool/method for figuring out if the 6+Ghz licensed freqs are appropriate for a link? I could be barking up the wrong tree with this... Are the higher freq licensed links appropriate for ~15-25 mile links? At the moment I'm using PTP600s and AN-50es to do the job but I can't get the speed I'd like because of noise floor. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - TradeAssociationWas:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
This thread is closed. Stop posting to it! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM
Could you please elaborate about a Class B? This is new to me. - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Actually...if you're willing to accept Class B status under Part 101, you can even get a 2' in 11 GHz NOTE: Class B is still MILES ahead of anything unlicensed -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brownson Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Correct. Normally 4 ft is the standard. But in most areas of the country you can request an exception and go down to a 2.5 ft. It has something to do with locations near certain military installations. Mike B On 7/10/08 10:42 AM, 3-dB Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5' Minimum on 11GHz Daniel White -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Doesn't 11Ghz have a 4' minimum or was that changed? Last rumor I heard was you might be able to get a 3' or possibly even a 2' approved for 11GHz, but if it becomes a problem then you'll be forced to change to an antenna that doesn't cause a problem with a tighter pattern...like 4'. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Regs are 6' minimum high performance dish at 6 GHz unless something changed recently. At 11 Ghz you should be able to get 99.99 and use the 5 Ghz to back it up Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jonathan Auer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:17:07 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Not really. The biggest I can use are 3' On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have facilities to mount 6' antennas at any real height?? You may be able to get away with 11 GHz... Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jonathan Auer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:57:06 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Does anyone have a Radio Mobile antenna pattern for the Dragonwave Horizon Compact? Is there a better tool/method for figuring out if the 6+Ghz licensed freqs are appropriate for a link? I could be barking up the wrong tree with this... Are the higher freq licensed links appropriate for ~15-25 mile links? At the moment I'm using PTP600s and AN-50es to do the job but I can't get the speed I'd like because of noise floor. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall)
This sounds like a worthwhile project, and would fill a void. Chicago is an awesome venue. Ah the days of the Boudreaux's butt cream ceremony. ;) Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:20 PM To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA General List Cc: Jeff Ehman Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall) As some of you may (or may not) know, we used to organize large trade shows several years ago...at its height, WiNOG had over 500+ attendees with 50+ exhibiting sponsors (I still have pictures of Rick Harnish and Mac Dearman @ the inaugural WISPA meeting in Chicago almost 3+ years ago =) In 2006, I decided to put an end to the large shows and change the format into a 1-day traveling road-show due to the fact for the there hasn't really been anything all that exciting out there in the market that would drive traffic to get me to put forth the effort to organize a large show...That said, I believe that with recent market developments, including the release of the 3.65 GHz band, the commercialization of WiMAX equipment in the US and the maturation of the market, I have enough stuff to work with to build an interesting content program. That said, before I go out and spend a lot of time and effort throwing something together, I'd like to get a feel for what people feel: Here are my thoughts 1. WiMAX World 2008 is scheduled for Sept 30-Oct 2, 2008 (Tuesday-Thursday) in Chicago...with 100+ exhibitors, it makes for a pretty large gathering of the wireless operator industry 2. While WiMAX World has a lot of people coming together, it's focusing more on large mobile broadband operators (ClearWire / Sprint) and the 802.16e WiMAX standard instead of small-to-medium operators who would utilize 802.16d (fixed) WiMAX 3. A three-day conference pass for WiMAX World costs almost $2,000...additionally, in looking at the programming, it seems more suited for Wall-Street / Gartner-type Analysts than for operators deploying systems in the field 4. WiMAX World (Yankee Group) is aware that they're content program doesn't really cater to the small-to-medium fixed-wireless operators, so they've come to me with a proposal to put together a more focused / targeted program on the side (that's also cheaper) Here's my idea 1. Do WiNOG as a smaller sub-get-together (100 or so people) focused on the specific issues of fixed-operators on September 29-30 (Monday-Tuesday) right before WiMAX World 2. Make WiNOG affordable to the network operators (have 2 tiers of admissions - 1 tier for service providers at say $95 to pay for food and another tier for vendors / consultants / random people at $500+) 3. Give attendees of WiNOG (through some cross-promotional agreement) the ability to go to the WiMAX World Exhibit hall for free on Oct 1-2 (Wednesday / Thursday), so they would get the focused content and operator peer-to-peer discussion along with the chance to experience a massive exhibit hall Thoughts? Comments? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Report: FCC to Punish Comcast Over Web Blocking
You know, I think there are three very different issues here. 1) Is one in favor of Calea. 2) Regardless, Calea is Law. How will WISPs best deal with Compliance? 3) What did WISPA do to help WISPs solve this problem? #1 is something we can go on forever debating. There are many WISPs that are not in favor of Calea, and took positions to fight it in the past. Including some WISPA members. WISPA has never taken the position that we are Pro Calea. WISPA has taken the position to represent WISPs, and do our best to comply with the Law. We have a responsibilty to our Country first. FBI won the Calea battle with legislators. Its not approriate to hold it against WISPA, that the US's elected legislators favored law enforcement's request for CALEA Compliance. #2 This is something every WISP has to ask themselves. REGARDLESS of whether they agree or disagree with Calea. This has nothing to do with WISPA. #3 What WISPA has done, as John Scrivner stated, is that the Calea committee asked these questions for WISPs, so WISP's did not have to. And I tell you there was a lot of man hours by those volunteers. Something that should be appreciated. I'd argue the Calea effort was probably the single largest group effort contribution in the organization's history, and undisputedly a success, and worthy of praise. If someone is unhappy with Calea, they should take it out on legislators, not WISPA that has just tried to ease the pain. Calea law was passed way before the Calea committee started to work on ways to comply. The time to fight the Calea law was BEFORE it was passed, and that was not the Calea's committees task, sense the laws had already been passed. Saying I can't or I wont doesn't do anyone any good. It was already law that we Have to. The best that could be expected of the Calea Committee and Leadership was to determine what is feasibly possible, and how we might most easilly accomplish that. Lets keep it real, please. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Report: FCC to Punish Comcast Over Web Blocking I object to this. Here is an example of what I have done regarding my interactions with the FCC in the last year: I was on a conference call with several ranking members of the FCC about a year ago. One of the people on the call was the head of enforcement in DC. I had recently purchased a pair of Alvarion backhaul radios and used my existing (already installed and aimed) Gabriel parabolics from my previous EX-1 link as opposed to the flat panels that they came with. I was getting fed up with their whole certified system crap. I asked the enforcement guy to tell me if I had broken the law. I was very frank and nearly yelling at the guy. I asked him to wear my shoes for one time and told him the scenario and asked him what he would do in my shoes. He promptly told me that there is no reason to ever break the law. (He never answered the question because he did not know if I had broken the law or not. None of them in DC knew the answer which was my point) I told him, in front of many in this association and on the phone at FCC headquarters to come and arrest me and to be sure and arrest the 3000 other people who had done the same thing between DC and Illinois on the way to get me. If that is not taking a stand and showing some balls then kiss my rear quarters. I took a stand with enforcement in DC for you. So get off my ass. By the way, I'll take my week's removal from this week for cussing if that was too much. I have had it with Mr. Conspiracy always slamming us here. So Muddy, when is the last time you told a federal official to come and get you in regard to standing up or our industry? Scriv On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 5:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is what I don't get. I reminded the OP that several ranking members of WISPA have declared objecting to mandates as politics. And, unless I have missed something, WISPA has NEVER officially objected to a single thing the FCC has wanted or gotten or demanded, and if someone suggests they should, immediately, all the long term list members and board members and committee members start hollering Stop being political. Yet, they suggest that our going along with nicely and with a smile will buy us some future favor - the essence of DIRTY POLITICS. And, over the years, WISPA has officially endorsed and approved of all kinds of stuff we should have fought tooth and nail. Why? I don't know. I can't understand it.We're not on record objecting to anything, but many of those things have the capability of putting most or all of us out of business, especially if future personell in DC, who know nothing of representations or negotiations or discussions made
Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM
To summarize, it details to the amount of interference you are willing to accept on your system That said, for standard operations in Part 101, due to the fact that the rules were written back in the early 90s for analogue microwave systems, the interference threshold of a licensed system can be summarized as follows (keep in mind, you can easily poke holes into my response, so bear with this oversimplification) Part 101 Interference Threshold is ~40 dB BELOW the minimum threshold of your licensed modulation That said...say I have a radio that as a result of operating at 64 QAM, has a minimum receive threshold of -68 dBm Chances are, when I build the link, I will plan for some amount of fade margin (say 30 dB here), so my nominal receive threshold for the link is -38 dBi That said, when I'm talking about this 40 dB buffer, I'm talking 40 dB below the MINIMUM threshold, so if I were to license a system in the area on the same channel, the co-channel noise that I would be able to pick up from you must be 40 dB BELOW -68, or ~ -108 dBm In this particular situation, if you were running in 11 GHz, as a result of using a 2' dish, you may change the allowable interferable noise flow from -108 (40 dB below -68) ro -78 (40 dB below -38) Again, in the unlicensed world, 10-15 dB above the noise floor is considered to be pretty good -- anything above that with some level of protection is incredible, and in the lower bands (!1 6 GHz) where it may be hard to fit a system in a geographical area at a specific interference/noise level, taking in an extra 10-20 dB of noise (when I've got 60+ dB of fade margin) isn't too much of an issue -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 1:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Could you please elaborate about a Class B? This is new to me. - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Actually...if you're willing to accept Class B status under Part 101, you can even get a 2' in 11 GHz NOTE: Class B is still MILES ahead of anything unlicensed -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brownson Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Correct. Normally 4 ft is the standard. But in most areas of the country you can request an exception and go down to a 2.5 ft. It has something to do with locations near certain military installations. Mike B On 7/10/08 10:42 AM, 3-dB Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5' Minimum on 11GHz Daniel White -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Doesn't 11Ghz have a 4' minimum or was that changed? Last rumor I heard was you might be able to get a 3' or possibly even a 2' approved for 11GHz, but if it becomes a problem then you'll be forced to change to an antenna that doesn't cause a problem with a tighter pattern...like 4'. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Regs are 6' minimum high performance dish at 6 GHz unless something changed recently. At 11 Ghz you should be able to get 99.99 and use the 5 Ghz to back it up Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jonathan Auer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:17:07 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Not really. The biggest I can use are 3' On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have facilities to mount 6' antennas at any real height?? You may be able to get away with 11 GHz... Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jonathan Auer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:57:06 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Does anyone have a Radio Mobile antenna pattern for the Dragonwave Horizon Compact? Is there a better tool/method for figuring out if the 6+Ghz licensed freqs are appropriate for a link? I could be
Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking
Then I agree. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking I meant to say the WORK WISPA did with CALEA was a good thing, not that CALEA was a good thing for WISPA. Frank - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking I see the value in reporting. I see the value in what WISPA did after CALEA was a requirement. I don't see the value in CALEA itself. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking You don't get it. CALEA was a good thing for WISPA and its members. You need to understand that you pick the battles you feel you can win. WISPA has gained a good amount of respect from the FCC, but this is only one of many battle fronts WISP's are up against. The FIGHT for US battle cry you comment on takes money, time and a good amount off leg work to make things work. You are dealing with a bureau that has many different levels of staffing, it can take weeks to know who to talk to, when and if they will talk to you, will it be ex-parte or not, etc, etc, etc. Understand that the RBOCs and other companies are clamoring for the eyes and ears of those a the FCC, as WISPs need to get to.The fight is not only on the federal level, but also at the state and local levels as well. Frank - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC toPunishComcast Over Web Blocking insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:53 AM Subject: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was: Report: FCC to PunishComcast Over Web Blocking I will got out here and say it. There is NO excuse not to support WISPA, NONE! So for all of you on this general list not supporting WISPA, you are losing out on an opportunity to make your livelihood last and support your families for years to come. $25 a month is a small price to pay for some representation in a industry that is supporting yourself and families. I am sure you can find that much on wasted expenses every month. Yes, there is. Until the current leadership gets their head out of the sand and starts fighting FOR US, instead of playing the FCC's patsy, I will not give them another dollar. When the boys came back from DC and posting to the lists that CALEA and the reporting mandates were good things, I could no longer in good conscience give them another dollar to use to use AGAINST US. Whatever they did or said in DC on that topic, IN NO WAY REPRESENTED ME OR THE INTERESTS OF MY BUSINESS OR MY FUTURE. When I saw certain WISPA leadership glom onto the idea of a CALEA mandate being an opportunity to extract more money and blackmail more memberships, I was immediately convinced that they were in it FOR THEM, and not us. I even saw posting by someone who said that CALEA would be good for WISPA. Not good for the members = good for WISPA? Hell NO! I will not play that game. We got local, state and federal governemnt playing that game, why would I voluntarily add WISPA to it? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM
Thanks. at 18 GHz, a Class B should be fine. - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM To summarize, it details to the amount of interference you are willing to accept on your system That said, for standard operations in Part 101, due to the fact that the rules were written back in the early 90s for analogue microwave systems, the interference threshold of a licensed system can be summarized as follows (keep in mind, you can easily poke holes into my response, so bear with this oversimplification) Part 101 Interference Threshold is ~40 dB BELOW the minimum threshold of your licensed modulation That said...say I have a radio that as a result of operating at 64 QAM, has a minimum receive threshold of -68 dBm Chances are, when I build the link, I will plan for some amount of fade margin (say 30 dB here), so my nominal receive threshold for the link is -38 dBi That said, when I'm talking about this 40 dB buffer, I'm talking 40 dB below the MINIMUM threshold, so if I were to license a system in the area on the same channel, the co-channel noise that I would be able to pick up from you must be 40 dB BELOW -68, or ~ -108 dBm In this particular situation, if you were running in 11 GHz, as a result of using a 2' dish, you may change the allowable interferable noise flow from -108 (40 dB below -68) ro -78 (40 dB below -38) Again, in the unlicensed world, 10-15 dB above the noise floor is considered to be pretty good -- anything above that with some level of protection is incredible, and in the lower bands (!1 6 GHz) where it may be hard to fit a system in a geographical area at a specific interference/noise level, taking in an extra 10-20 dB of noise (when I've got 60+ dB of fade margin) isn't too much of an issue -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 1:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Could you please elaborate about a Class B? This is new to me. - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Actually...if you're willing to accept Class B status under Part 101, you can even get a 2' in 11 GHz NOTE: Class B is still MILES ahead of anything unlicensed -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brownson Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Correct. Normally 4 ft is the standard. But in most areas of the country you can request an exception and go down to a 2.5 ft. It has something to do with locations near certain military installations. Mike B On 7/10/08 10:42 AM, 3-dB Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5' Minimum on 11GHz Daniel White -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Doesn't 11Ghz have a 4' minimum or was that changed? Last rumor I heard was you might be able to get a 3' or possibly even a 2' approved for 11GHz, but if it becomes a problem then you'll be forced to change to an antenna that doesn't cause a problem with a tighter pattern...like 4'. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Regs are 6' minimum high performance dish at 6 GHz unless something changed recently. At 11 Ghz you should be able to get 99.99 and use the 5 Ghz to back it up Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jonathan Auer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:17:07 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave antenna pattern for RM Not really. The biggest I can use are 3' On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have facilities to mount 6' antennas at any real height?? You may be able to get away with 11 GHz... Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jonathan Auer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:57:06 To:
Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall)
Nice... -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Aeras Networks WaveLink 4500
I've got an old Aeras networks ptp radio I picked up. Anybody with experience with these want to chat offline? -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Aeras Networks WaveLink 4500
Do you have one or two? Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McDowell Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:56 PM To: WISPA General List; wisp; Motorola Canopy User Group Subject: [WISPA] Aeras Networks WaveLink 4500 I've got an old Aeras networks ptp radio I picked up. Anybody with experience with these want to chat offline? -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Aeras Networks WaveLink 4500
two On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 8:10 PM, Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have one or two? Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McDowell Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:56 PM To: WISPA General List; wisp; Motorola Canopy User Group Subject: [WISPA] Aeras Networks WaveLink 4500 I've got an old Aeras networks ptp radio I picked up. Anybody with experience with these want to chat offline? -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Aeras Networks WaveLink 4500
I had one link that was 18 miles with 3' dishes for about 9 months. Aeras went out of business about the same time one of the ends took a lightning strike and I never got it repaired. This was back in 2004 I think. I do remember we would lose the link occasionally on days where we got a temperature inversion in the hot summer days over growing cropland. Other than that, they were pretty solid radios for the day. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McDowell Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Aeras Networks WaveLink 4500 two On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 8:10 PM, Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have one or two? Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McDowell Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:56 PM To: WISPA General List; wisp; Motorola Canopy User Group Subject: [WISPA] Aeras Networks WaveLink 4500 I've got an old Aeras networks ptp radio I picked up. Anybody with experience with these want to chat offline? -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall)
OH my, I look so young! I probably need that butt paste more today than I Mac needed back then! That one is going to cost ya WuWu! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall) Speaking of which... [cid:image003.jpg@01C8E5C9.5BD545B0] Good thing we're done with board elections=) -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Delp Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 1:22 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall) This sounds like a worthwhile project, and would fill a void. Chicago is an awesome venue. Ah the days of the Boudreaux's butt cream ceremony. ;) Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:20 PM To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA General List Cc: Jeff Ehman Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall) As some of you may (or may not) know, we used to organize large trade shows several years ago...at its height, WiNOG had over 500+ attendees with 50+ exhibiting sponsors (I still have pictures of Rick Harnish and Mac Dearman @ the inaugural WISPA meeting in Chicago almost 3+ years ago =) In 2006, I decided to put an end to the large shows and change the format into a 1-day traveling road-show due to the fact for the there hasn't really been anything all that exciting out there in the market that would drive traffic to get me to put forth the effort to organize a large show...That said, I believe that with recent market developments, including the release of the 3.65 GHz band, the commercialization of WiMAX equipment in the US and the maturation of the market, I have enough stuff to work with to build an interesting content program. That said, before I go out and spend a lot of time and effort throwing something together, I'd like to get a feel for what people feel: Here are my thoughts 1. WiMAX World 2008 is scheduled for Sept 30-Oct 2, 2008 (Tuesday-Thursday) in Chicago...with 100+ exhibitors, it makes for a pretty large gathering of the wireless operator industry 2. While WiMAX World has a lot of people coming together, it's focusing more on large mobile broadband operators (ClearWire / Sprint) and the 802.16e WiMAX standard instead of small-to-medium operators who would utilize 802.16d (fixed) WiMAX 3. A three-day conference pass for WiMAX World costs almost $2,000...additionally, in looking at the programming, it seems more suited for Wall-Street / Gartner-type Analysts than for operators deploying systems in the field 4. WiMAX World (Yankee Group) is aware that they're content program doesn't really cater to the small-to-medium fixed-wireless operators, so they've come to me with a proposal to put together a more focused / targeted program on the side (that's also cheaper) Here's my idea 1. Do WiNOG as a smaller sub-get-together (100 or so people) focused on the specific issues of fixed-operators on September 29-30 (Monday-Tuesday) right before WiMAX World 2. Make WiNOG affordable to the network operators (have 2 tiers of admissions - 1 tier for service providers at say $95 to pay for food and another tier for vendors / consultants / random people at $500+) 3. Give attendees of WiNOG (through some cross-promotional agreement) the ability to go to the WiMAX World Exhibit hall for free on Oct 1-2 (Wednesday / Thursday), so they would get the focused content and operator peer-to-peer discussion along with the chance to experience a massive exhibit hall Thoughts? Comments? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
[WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps
Hey all Mikrotik gurus. Is it possible to pull 40meg+ through an RB532 with NAT'ing (masquerade) turned on? Total of 3 in-house systems running through this one - not a lot going on with it - but I'm having trouble pulling much more than 10 through it. Have narrowed it down to the 532 I've got as my router. If it's not possible no problem - I have other options. If it is, then any suggestions as to what might be the problem? I've been through the duplexing / speed possibilities already and have tested in front of, and behind, the 532. Can pull what I've got (40meg give or take) without the Mik but again, can only get 10 through the 532. Thanks in advance! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due
Dear Members and NonMembers: For those that may be filing comment on the Form 477 NPRM, please be reminded that comments on the Section IV(B), which seeks comment on the adoption of a national broadband mapping program and the Commission's tentative conclusion that the Commission collect information that providers use to respond to prospective customers to determine on an address-by-address basis whether service is available, are due on July 17 (replies due on Aug. 1). Comments on the other sections of the NPRM (reporting number of lines and channels, delivered speed information gathering, broadband price information, preserving confidentiality and broadband customer surveys) are due on Aug. 1 (replies due Sept. 1). This is Docket Number 07-38 and I have attached the NPRM pdf. You can go to http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/upload_v2.cgi to file your comments online. This reminder was sent from Ron Harden of VoxCorp. Thank you Ron. Respectfully, Rick Harnish DA-08-1586A1.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reader- Who are you, really?? Rick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 11:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking This is where I am sadly going to post to you sometime in the near future... I told you so. And that will be the saddest day for all of us. I have no unfounded fears. I just read and understand precisely what these things mean. It won't be the first one, it won't be the second one. It may not even be the first time someone's data doesn't work out for LEA that things go sour. But it WILL happen. YOU will find yourself explaining your mechanism for security, confidentiality, and so on. And those are the aspects that will kill us. No matter what the folks who liason with you at the FCC or FBI, they don't speak for the irritated prosecutors or agents who will not have had ny quality control over the data themselves, and so will dump on YOU.And they do intend for you to do this JUST LIKE THE PHONE COMPANY. That means the locked buildings, the hard lines, the secure data storage, and on and on.I'm not kidding. There's a reason the reports insist on you explaining your plan for each of these things, including the chain of custody for the data and your security plan. They expect a specific set of circumstances, and to them, that's what CALEA means to them. How many times have we seen a big flap in the news because some low level flunkie took a laptop home, or whatever?Those are only the things that make the news. How long will you be collecting data? Are you going to have someone to physically be there? If not, and if the location isn't secure, alarmed, and locked, POOF. You're toast. And so's the case for the LEA. Your data has obvious gaps in the packets... Do you think that there's packet loss between the access point and my collection point going to mollify someone wanting to make an example of you?Nope. First rule of law... if you can't prosecute the criminal, get the guy watching him YOU will be the target and they'll come guns blazing. It would be better for you to say you can't do it, than to do it and then let them down. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Topic change - Trade Association Was:Report:FCCtoPunishComcast Over Web Blocking On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forrest, let me get back to the very old conversation about why WISPA should organized at least 1500 filings to the FCC by every WISP they could get to act, to say This cannot be done. Your fears are unfounded and not based in reality. I understand, now, why you think it will cost so much. You are simply incorrect in nearly all of your assumptions. Have you even read the standard? The Law? Nowhere in either will you find ANY of what you are talking about. 3. Once your data is collected, it must be remain secure. You must have a safe or a vault in which to keep it, expressly and solely for the purpose of This is ludicrous. Your whole post, I mean, not just this one point, though this one is the most laughable. -- *Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS* *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks* *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Professional Technical Trainer* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
kinda a cool domain name... Mark, what is the origin of the name Kostenmaki? ryan %whois muddyfrogwater.us Domain Name: MUDDYFROGWATER.US Domain ID: D6645077-US Sponsoring Registrar:GODADDY.COM, INC. Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID:146 Registrant ID: GODA-07967572 Registrant Name: Mark Koskenmaki Registrant Organization: North East Oregon Fastnet Registrant Address1: 512 N Franklin Registrant City: Weston Registrant State/Province: Oregon Registrant Postal Code: 97886 Registrant Country: United States Registrant Country Code: US Registrant Phone Number: +1.5415661859 Registrant Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Registrant Application Purpose: P1 Registrant Nexus Category: C21 Administrative Contact ID: GODA-27967572 Administrative Contact Name: Mark Koskenmaki Administrative Contact Organization: North East Oregon Fastnet Administrative Contact Address1: 512 N Franklin Administrative Contact City: Weston Administrative Contact State/Province: Oregon Administrative Contact Postal Code: 97886 Administrative Contact Country: United States Administrative Contact Country Code: US Administrative Contact Phone Number: +1.5415661859 Administrative Contact Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Administrative Application Purpose: P1 Administrative Nexus Category: C21 Billing Contact ID: GODA-37967572 Billing Contact Name:Mark Koskenmaki Billing Contact Organization:North East Oregon Fastnet Billing Contact Address1:512 N Franklin Billing Contact City:Weston Billing Contact State/Province: Oregon Billing Contact Postal Code: 97886 Billing Contact Country: United States Billing Contact Country Code:US Billing Contact Phone Number:+1.5415661859 Billing Contact Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Billing Application Purpose: P1 Billing Nexus Category: C21 Technical Contact ID:GODA-17967572 Technical Contact Name: Mark Koskenmaki Technical Contact Organization: North East Oregon Fastnet Technical Contact Address1: 512 N Franklin Technical Contact City: Weston Technical Contact State/Province:Oregon Technical Contact Postal Code: 97886 Technical Contact Country: United States Technical Contact Country Code: US Technical Contact Phone Number: +1.5415661859 Technical Contact Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technical Application Purpose: P1 Technical Nexus Category:C21 Name Server: DNS1.SPEEDINGBITS.COM Name Server: DNS2.SPEEDINGBITS.COM Created by Registrar:GODADDY.COM, INC. Last Updated by Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC. Domain Registration Date:Fri Sep 03 17:53:00 GMT 2004 Domain Expiration Date: Tue Sep 02 23:59:59 GMT 2008 Domain Last Updated Date:Sun Sep 02 11:41:14 GMT 2007 Rick Herrmann wrote: Reader- Who are you, really?? Rick WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Finnish. If you think Germans are stubborn, you never met a Finn :) Muddy Frogwater is an annual local festive event which occurs in August, and the city of Milton Freewater, Or has myriad year round references to Muddy Frogwater - which happens to be a nickname assigned to the city by bored teenagers referring disparagingly to thier hometown... 30 years ago, that is. Note: I only live near MF, and serve only a church within the city limits. Today, Muddy Frogwater has been successfully branded as a local festival and has a positive connotation. Some of my subscribers use this domain for their email addresses, and I bought and pay to keep it, just for kicks and giggles. I also use this domain for testing various permutations of spam prevention, etc. It gets enough traffic to test, but has little disruption to my customers. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [EMAIL PROTECTED] kinda a cool domain name... Mark, what is the origin of the name Kostenmaki? ryan %whois muddyfrogwater.us Domain Name: MUDDYFROGWATER.US Domain ID: D6645077-US Sponsoring Registrar:GODADDY.COM, INC. Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID:146 Registrant ID: GODA-07967572 Registrant Name: Mark Koskenmaki Registrant Organization: North East Oregon Fastnet Registrant Address1: 512 N Franklin Registrant City: Weston Registrant State/Province: Oregon Registrant Postal Code: 97886 Registrant Country: United States Registrant Country Code: US Registrant Phone Number: +1.5415661859 Registrant Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Registrant Application Purpose: P1 Registrant Nexus Category: C21 Administrative Contact ID: GODA-27967572 Administrative Contact Name: Mark Koskenmaki Administrative Contact Organization: North East Oregon Fastnet Administrative Contact Address1: 512 N Franklin Administrative Contact City: Weston Administrative Contact State/Province: Oregon Administrative Contact Postal Code: 97886 Administrative Contact Country: United States Administrative Contact Country Code: US Administrative Contact Phone Number: +1.5415661859 Administrative Contact Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Administrative Application Purpose: P1 Administrative Nexus Category: C21 Billing Contact ID: GODA-37967572 Billing Contact Name:Mark Koskenmaki Billing Contact Organization:North East Oregon Fastnet Billing Contact Address1:512 N Franklin Billing Contact City:Weston Billing Contact State/Province: Oregon Billing Contact Postal Code: 97886 Billing Contact Country: United States Billing Contact Country Code:US Billing Contact Phone Number:+1.5415661859 Billing Contact Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Billing Application Purpose: P1 Billing Nexus Category: C21 Technical Contact ID:GODA-17967572 Technical Contact Name: Mark Koskenmaki Technical Contact Organization: North East Oregon Fastnet Technical Contact Address1: 512 N Franklin Technical Contact City: Weston Technical Contact State/Province:Oregon Technical Contact Postal Code: 97886 Technical Contact Country: United States Technical Contact Country Code: US Technical Contact Phone Number: +1.5415661859 Technical Contact Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technical Application Purpose: P1 Technical Nexus Category:C21 Name Server: DNS1.SPEEDINGBITS.COM Name Server: DNS2.SPEEDINGBITS.COM Created by Registrar:GODADDY.COM, INC. Last Updated by Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC. Domain Registration Date:Fri Sep 03 17:53:00 GMT 2004 Domain Expiration Date: Tue Sep 02 23:59:59 GMT 2008 Domain Last Updated Date:Sun Sep 02 11:41:14 GMT 2007 Rick Herrmann wrote: Reader- Who are you, really?? Rick
Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due
I'm going to ask that we oppose this in its entirety, due to it giving away information we really don't need given away. Whatever your take... please file. ... something. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA's FCC Committee' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Motorola Canopy User Group' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 8:06 PM Subject: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due Dear Members and NonMembers: For those that may be filing comment on the Form 477 NPRM, please be reminded that comments on the Section IV(B), which seeks comment on the adoption of a national broadband mapping program and the Commission's tentative conclusion that the Commission collect information that providers use to respond to prospective customers to determine on an address-by-address basis whether service is available, are due on July 17 (replies due on Aug. 1). Comments on the other sections of the NPRM (reporting number of lines and channels, delivered speed information gathering, broadband price information, preserving confidentiality and broadband customer surveys) are due on Aug. 1 (replies due Sept. 1). This is Docket Number 07-38 and I have attached the NPRM pdf. You can go to http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/upload_v2.cgi to file your comments online. This reminder was sent from Ron Harden of VoxCorp. Thank you Ron. Respectfully, Rick Harnish WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due
This is an excerpt from a comment filed by a state representative from Kansas: As a state policy-maker attempting to develop incentives that will induce broadband providers (particularly the larger DSL and cable companies) to use multiple technologies to reach beyond city limits, FCC data providing greater specificity about which potential customers are adversely impacted by the digital divide and left without a viable option for service would be invaluable. That ought to turn your stomach into knots. Let me interpret it... We want detailed data, so we can help,cajole, coerce, or bribe the big guys into universal coverage. This is not a question of the FCC determining how broadband is being deployed. This is a matter of us being required to provide the data so that public money can be used to benefit the politically connected. My comments to the FCC... As a small businessman, one of the ways that we exist, is by being flexible and by offering services in an ad-hoc basis that larger, inflexible entities don't. Often, small businesses are purely based upon market need. Individuals find a need and fill it. And we do so in our own town, or neighborhood, or in the areas near where we live. One of the most critical efforts that small business people undertake, is to determine if there's a large enough market for what they want to do. Often, little funding is available for this, and they substitute days, weeks, or even months of time and personal effort instead of hiring research companies or marketing consultants, or buying the data outright. In the case of a wireless ISP, for instance, one of the most critical elements for success, is to map out an area, and then begin building out a network. Many such WISP's are one or two man operations, and start with minimal capital, usually enough to get started and operate in a limited area for a short period of time. Then, funding from operations then provides capital for expansion and improvement of infrastructure. During this phase of the life of a WISP, the financial situation is generally very fragile, and a loss of markets to move into will generally cause business failure. If WISP's are required to do even MORE work, such as finding census borders and maintaining massive and detailed databases of location etc, and the purpose of that work is to give free assistance to competitors to show them where to take your markets away from you, this effort is 100% counterproductive. Not only do the results hurt you, but the time it takes away from a small businessman often comes at the expense of operations, expansion, or even quality of service. Perhaps people who sit behind desks in Washington DC don't care about anything but press releases where they get to praise themselves and get lauded on TV, but for those of us who risk our life's savings and often years of our lives building a business by bootstrap have a LOT more at stake than a transitory and soon forgotten political posture by some appointed or hired public employee. So, as a small businessman, I cannot state how incredibly wrong ALL of this is, and that IN NO WAY should the FCC be in the business of deliberating wasting the time, money, and resources of small business people solely for the purpose of harming their future. So, in closing, I state for the record, there is no good aspect the collection of detailed information. It is not and has never been the business of Congress or the FCC to provide broadband. That's being done by thousands of hard working people who have risked everything they have to try to make it happen. It seems worse than Machiavellian, then, for the FCC to demand that these people then waste thier time, money, and energy, in an effort where the only result possible, is to harm them. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due I'm going to ask that we oppose this in its entirety, due to it giving away information we really don't need given away. Whatever your take... please file. ... something. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
