[WISPA] One long @#$% day!
It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a few weeks old. I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run. So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up the mountain. Won't boot. Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep. Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road. Takes 20 min round trip) with all the parts. Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting. Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again. I see nothing. So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it in. Boots. Lights flash. Fire up the laptop and no. It's not working. log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED. Put old RB14 back in, change one radio. Boots up. Logs in. all radios detect, data flowing to customers. Drive home. Try to thaw out. The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts like a knife through you.Log in from home and watch everything, suddenly noticed one of the ap radios has no clients. Odd. Look at config, looks ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate. As they slowly hop on, I'm sitting there wondering why this... and just then, PM suddenly starts popping up red.Sure enough. System locked. Drive up the mountain, put in second spare radio in place of XR5 and boot. (Spare XR5, was used for 2 weeks in temp site).System boots and runs and ... No link to the XR5.Try new pigtail.Dead.How strange. It worked fine just 9 days ago, and it's been stored in the ALIX board it was installed and working in all this time. As I'm sitting and watching while sitting in the van, trying to stop shivering with the heat on full blast, It locks up again. I reboot. Everything comes up, I had put the old XR5 in, and everything starts working - apparently it wasn't the pigtail, just the replacement XR5 that had no output. Waited 15 min, still
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
maybe none of the parts are bad (except the original mini-itx board) and it is just getting too cold out for them to function properly? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:49 AM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe. Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected. Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town. It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there. Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down. ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it. Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a few weeks old. I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run. So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up the mountain. Won't boot. Doesn't even beep. Power comes on, but no beep. Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road. Takes 20 min round trip) with all the parts. Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting. Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again. I see nothing. So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it in. Boots. Lights flash. Fire up the laptop and no. It's not working. log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED. Put old RB14 back in, change one radio. Boots up. Logs in. all radios detect, data flowing to customers. Drive home. Try to thaw out. The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts like a knife through you. Log in from home and watch everything, suddenly noticed one of the ap radios has no clients. Odd. Look at config, looks ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate. As they slowly hop on, I'm sitting there wondering why this... and just then, PM suddenly starts popping up red. Sure enough. System locked. Drive up the mountain, put in second spare radio in place of XR5 and boot. (Spare XR5, was used for 2 weeks in temp site). System boots and runs and ... No link to the XR5. Try new pigtail. Dead. How strange. It worked fine just 9 days ago, and it's been stored in the ALIX board it was installed and working in all this time. As I'm sitting and watching while sitting in the van, trying to stop shivering with the heat on full
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
Power supply could also be the culprit. Power connections that moved with the cold. Re-seat every cable. Philip Dorr wrote: maybe none of the parts are bad (except the original mini-itx board)and it is just getting too cold out for them to function properly? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:49 AM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town. It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was e xtremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she 's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a few weeks old. I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run. So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up the mountain. Won't boot. Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep. Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road. Takes 20 min round trip) with all the parts. Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting. Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again. I see nothing. So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it in. Boots. Lights flash. Fire up the laptop and no. It's not working. log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED. Put old RB14 back in, change one radio. Boots up. Logs in. all radios detect, da ta flowing to customers. Drive home. Try to thaw out. The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts like a knife through you.Log in from home and watch everything, suddenly noticed one of the ap radios has no clients. Odd. Look at config, looks ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate. As they slowly hop on, I'm sitting there wondering why this... and just then, PM suddenly starts popping up red.Sure enough. System locked. Drive up the mountain, put in second spare radio in place of XR5 and boot. (Spare XR5, was used for 2 weeks in temp site).System boots and runs and ... No link to the XR5.Try new pigtail.Dead.How strange. It worked fine just 9 days ago, and it's been stored in the ALIX board it was installed and working
Re: [WISPA] www.google.com
Is this something specific to the RB450/450G? I have the RB750 and I'm running 4.3 and having no issues. I'm using the RB750 on a 15Mbps/2Mbps cable connection with numerous pcq queues doing prioritization (no limiting) on outbound (queuing with no prioritization on the inbound) and I'm impressed with how low the CPU usage is. It spiked once to 22% but since that one time it's not gone over 12%. I've been using it a few weeks. Greg On Dec 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I'm quite confident it's MT. Introduced in 4.0. On 12/6/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Ya, I think I mentioned it there already. I figured it may not be a Mikrotik problem so wanted to post here too. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: I am having the same issue. We have a thread on Butch's MT list but it is just discussion. On 12/6/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: OK, 3 times in the past week that I've noticed I could not get to www.google.com via the web, nor ping it, and DNS could not resolve it. I COULD ping and resolve google.com. I tried changing my DNS to OpenDNS and Public DNS (4.2.2.1) but had the same results. M firewall is an RB450G running 4.3. Is anyone out there having this issue? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
That was our experience with Mini-ITX boards as well. One thing we were able to tell was that they didn't like sudden changes in temperature. It didn't have to be outside the temperature tolerances of the board, but even going from 80 to 60 over a couple hours would cause it to lock up. In the end, we pulled all the Mini-ITX boards. We switched to routerboards and everything has been solid. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] www.google.com
It's not specific to any board, as it happens on X86 and RB1000s as well. However, it only happens to customers using Mikrotik as their DNS server. On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:46 AM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Is this something specific to the RB450/450G? I have the RB750 and I'm running 4.3 and having no issues. I'm using the RB750 on a 15Mbps/2Mbps cable connection with numerous pcq queues doing prioritization (no limiting) on outbound (queuing with no prioritization on the inbound) and I'm impressed with how low the CPU usage is. It spiked once to 22% but since that one time it's not gone over 12%. I've been using it a few weeks. Greg On Dec 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I'm quite confident it's MT. Introduced in 4.0. On 12/6/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Ya, I think I mentioned it there already. I figured it may not be a Mikrotik problem so wanted to post here too. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: I am having the same issue. We have a thread on Butch's MT list but it is just discussion. On 12/6/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: OK, 3 times in the past week that I've noticed I could not get to www.google.com via the web, nor ping it, and DNS could not resolve it. I COULD ping and resolve google.com. I tried changing my DNS to OpenDNS and Public DNS (4.2.2.1) but had the same results. M firewall is an RB450G running 4.3. Is anyone out there having this issue? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance. On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The problem now is either people are profiting from the waste or they're too immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I don't think anyone is talking about that. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote: That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government running health care or even an option. This includes many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net wrote: Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. I am more than happy to pay for extra medical services. Whatever those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to pay that extra tax to drive your car? Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much...
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
It's snowing here! Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Long Cat5 Run
I once had a Tranzeo radio running at near 500ft of cable, at 100 Base full, with no problems. Granted it was Belden 7919 Shielded Cable... it was a backhaul for my house and didn't have issue with the cable (getting the radio to deal with the noise floor was a separate issue :-) FWIW... I've run many radios to 350ft on 802.3af power and 24v PoE with no issues. I of course try to avoid it, but I often wonder if those recommendations were for CAT5 cable, and 5e allows you to stretch a little bit further... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Long Cat5 Run Voltage won't be a problem. http://www.wisp-router.com/poecalculator.php At 320 feet you should be OK with the Ethernet timing. I have done 340 with 48v Ceragon (that's AirMux FYI) gear. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:31 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Confusing info on the net so I guess I better ask. I need to run a Cat5 line near 320 feet. I know that over 300 could cause issues but if I put my PoE switch about 20 or 30 feet in and then run the rest of the way, will we be golden or will we risk attenuation? Seems to be confusion on the net over use of switch curing the attenuation. Personally I think the switch will make it all cool, just want to make sure. I use outdoor, solid core, shielded, flooded cable with static drain. Running it to a Mikrotik 600a using 4 R52N cards. Another thought, running 48v though 290 feet of solid core Cat5 Do ya think I'll have enough juice the end of the run to power up that 600a and the 4 R52N's? Just so ya know. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Long Cat5 Run
The important specs are twists per foot and capacitance per foot with the capacitance being the most important. The lower the capacitance per foot the lower the attenuation and the lower the crosstalk (because there is capacitive interaction with neighboring pairs as well). If you can find a cable with lower capacitance per foot you can go further. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 8:37 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote: I once had a Tranzeo radio running at near 500ft of cable, at 100 Base full, with no problems. Granted it was Belden 7919 Shielded Cable... it was a backhaul for my house and didn't have issue with the cable (getting the radio to deal with the noise floor was a separate issue :-) FWIW... I've run many radios to 350ft on 802.3af power and 24v PoE with no issues. I of course try to avoid it, but I often wonder if those recommendations were for CAT5 cable, and 5e allows you to stretch a little bit further... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Long Cat5 Run Voltage won't be a problem. http://www.wisp-router.com/poecalculator.php At 320 feet you should be OK with the Ethernet timing. I have done 340 with 48v Ceragon (that's AirMux FYI) gear. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:31 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Confusing info on the net so I guess I better ask. I need to run a Cat5 line near 320 feet. I know that over 300 could cause issues but if I put my PoE switch about 20 or 30 feet in and then run the rest of the way, will we be golden or will we risk attenuation? Seems to be confusion on the net over use of switch curing the attenuation. Personally I think the switch will make it all cool, just want to make sure. I use outdoor, solid core, shielded, flooded cable with static drain. Running it to a Mikrotik 600a using 4 R52N cards. Another thought, running 48v though 290 feet of solid core Cat5 Do ya think I'll have enough juice the end of the run to power up that 600a and the 4 R52N's? Just so ya know. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. I am more than happy to pay for extra medical services. Whatever those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. Why are we not having a
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
80+ and sunny here ;) To bad it will not last long. Can see why Gino lives here in the Carribbean. Talk about Gino should past by him shortly ;) (Alright so I'm on vacation on a Disney Cruise to the eastern Carribbean) /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:33:20 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's snowing here! Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Interference Perhaps
Hi, We are running into some interference type issues in a few markets with 900MHz. We've put in place some 10 and 20 MHz bandpass to filter cell and paging. The interference seems to be still bothering our AP. In these markets we have some antiquated MikroTik equipment running SR9 cards. We believe this interference to be in-band but have yet to locate the source. Anyone have any tips/tricks for either avoiding this interference or locating its source? If we do locate it, any tips on how to get them to play nice? -- Nick Huanca WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
I would say the problems is lawyers. When a skilled good doctor that is nationally renowned as a OB can't make a living as a OB alone yet he is always busy but end up doing plastic surgery on the side because his malpractice insurance is so high (yet never had to use it) but he has to carry it. On the prices I seen the clear opposite. The insurance companies have allowed prices what the doctors can charge. If you don't have insurance you can end up paying full premiums which sometimes can be twice as much as health insurance allowed fees. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:26:22 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
That's correct and you're blaming the doctor? Your example gives you some idea the amount of waste our current system is saddled with. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that mandate. They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum liability. It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the national level. I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public healthcare because I don't live there. I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any business. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument. The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need it. The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not buying auto insurance from them if you don't need it. Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and ultimately put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them. They are taking your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something from them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit. Big difference. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. I am more than happy to pay for extra medical services. Whatever those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to pay that extra tax to drive your car? Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much... ryan On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke nstooke...@wisperisp.comwrote: Hello, I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that started WedMD years back. He was starting another company that worked with the insurance flow of paper work. He said several times that 70% to 80% of the insurance premiums we pay go to the middle man and not to pay for the doctors services. My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:22 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Yes, we in South Florida have some of the highest insurance rates (all types of insurance). There are many reasons, non of them that make a great deal of sense to me, but I have heard all kinds of excuses... The original point was, Health Care Insurance is a necessity. Health Care Insurance should be a vital benefit, provided by an Employer whenever possible. Health Care Insurance is expensive So, How do you set up this benefit so that it makes sense for all (Employer and Employee). There are a number of very effective ways to do this, rather than the drastic options to convert Employees to Contractors... BTW, if you Talk to you Accountant, they will also tell you that simply paying someone on a 1099 as a Contractor, does not make them a contract employee There are other 'litmus' tests used to determine the exact status, in-case someone challenges the status quo. Faisal Imtiaz Computer
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. But the feds current answer is to create another football team, buy new uniforms for their team with taxpayer dollars and then expect all the teams, including theirs, to suddenly start performing well. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance. On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The problem now is either people are profiting from the waste or they're too immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I don't think anyone is talking about that. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote: That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government running health care or even an option. This includes many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net wrote: Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
Yeah, I woke up to snow. Now I'm glad I worked till midnight last night, at least I didn't have snow to deal with. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's snowing here! Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Interference Perhaps
Nick Huanca wrote: We are running into some interference type issues in a few markets with 900MHz. We've put in place some 10 and 20 MHz bandpass to filter cell and paging. The interference seems to be still bothering our AP. In these markets we have some antiquated MikroTik equipment running SR9 cards. We believe this interference to be in-band but have yet to locate the source. Anyone have any tips/tricks for either avoiding this interference or locating its source? If we do locate it, any tips on how to get them to play nice Hi Nick...what exactly are you experiencing? Please describe your setups. Thanks leon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.97/2550 - Release Date: 12/07/09 02:33:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
Just taking issue with the I was charged $8 for two Tylenol, I was charged $10 for a Tylenol. A beer in a bar (with far less overhead) is $5. Isn't the fact that if one doesn't have insurance the hospitals work with you at the very least go to show that the folks providing us healthcare aren't the cold hearted money grabbing parasites some pushing for healthcare reform (I mean people I know and people I hear on TV, not pointing fingers at anyone here on the list) try to claim they are? I know of examples where patients couldn't afford the meds so the pharmaceutical company donated them, or a friend (who's a missionary in the jungle and not much money) who's daughter ran up a $500,000 bill being on a special life support device which the company itself helped pay for and the rest was covered by grants. Our system is not as broken as some want to make it out to be. Many of the uninsured are uninsured by choice or illegals. I live in Venezuela and I am covered by their free system there (though if it matters and one has the money people go to the paid clinics) BUT I'M NOT THERE ILLEGALLY. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote: I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
Have a blast!!! Is the cruise stopping in San Juan? Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 7, 2009, at 10:30 AM, e...@wisp-router.com e...@wisp- router.com wrote: 80+ and sunny here ;) To bad it will not last long. Can see why Gino lives here in the Carribbean. Talk about Gino should past by him shortly ;) (Alright so I'm on vacation on a Disney Cruise to the eastern Carribbean) /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:33:20 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's snowing here! Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
We'll save some snow for you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of e...@wisp-router.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:27 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! 80+ and sunny here ;) To bad it will not last long. Can see why Gino lives here in the Carribbean. Talk about Gino should past by him shortly ;) (Alright so I'm on vacation on a Disney Cruise to the eastern Carribbean) /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:33:20 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's snowing here! Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
I was clear when I said need insurance. If you don't have a car or drive the car on the public roadway the government doesn't fine you or jail you for not having auto insurance. The government isn't forcing you to have a car and buy their auto insurance at the price and under the terms they dictate. That is exactly what is being proposed with this government run health care system. Again, big difference. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that mandate. They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum liability. It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the national level. I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public healthcare because I don't live there. I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any business. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument. The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need it. The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not buying auto insurance from them if you don't need it. Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and ultimately put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them. They are taking your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something from them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit. Big difference. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. I am more than happy to pay for extra medical services. Whatever those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to pay that extra tax to drive your car? Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much... ryan On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke nstooke...@wisperisp.comwrote: Hello, I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that started WedMD years back. He was starting another company that worked with the insurance flow of paper work. He said several times that 70% to 80% of the insurance premiums we pay go to the middle man and not to pay for the doctors services. My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:22 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Yes, we in South Florida have some of the highest insurance rates (all types of insurance). There are many reasons, non of them that make a great deal of sense to me, but I have heard all kinds of excuses... The original point was, Health Care Insurance is a necessity. Health Care
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a nightmare? At least you got a new hat. That's the bright side out of all this, I say. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a few weeks old. I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run. So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up the mountain. Won't boot. Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep. Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road. Takes 20 min round trip) with all the parts. Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting. Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again. I see nothing. So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it in. Boots. Lights flash. Fire up the laptop and no. It's not working. log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED. Put old RB14 back in, change one radio. Boots up. Logs in. all radios detect, data flowing to customers. Drive home. Try to thaw out. The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts like a knife through you.Log in from home and watch everything, suddenly noticed one of the ap radios has no clients. Odd. Look at config, looks ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate. As they slowly hop on, I'm sitting there wondering why this... and just then, PM suddenly starts popping up red.Sure enough. System locked. Drive up the mountain, put in second spare radio in place of XR5 and boot. (Spare XR5, was used for 2 weeks in temp site).System boots and runs and ... No link to the XR5.Try new pigtail.Dead.How strange. It worked fine just 9 days ago, and it's been stored in the ALIX board it
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
That's correct and you're blaming the doctor? Yes, or the hospital. Many insurance companies may have a set rate they will pay, but many do not. In this instance, the doctor/hospital knew that Friend 1 had insurance and Friend 2 did not. Why the cost disparity? The doctor/hospital knew they could sock it to the insurance company. Insurance company pays more out, now what? Everyone's premiums go up to fund the doctor/hospital charging the outrageous prices to people that have insurance. Just an FYI, they have to treat you in life threatening situations. I have seen illegal aliens get treated in emergency rooms and then sent back across the border(if the law enforcement was involved, such as car wreck,etc...) and no one pays the bill, except the US citizens being charged more for health care. You can also make any attempt to pay on a doctor/hospital bill and their is nothing they can do about it. Even if it's $25 - $100/mth. At least that is the way it is around here. Both of these cause the price of health care to rise which leads to higher insurance. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:44:29 -0600 That's correct and you're blaming the doctor? Your example gives you some idea the amount of waste our current system is saddled with. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
I believe the proposed changes have only dealt with the insurance side (government provided and more rules for the private sector insurance providers). On the healthcare provider (doctors, hospitals) side I believe they've only talked about rules. Maybe new government clinics that provide healthcare at discounted rates would help drive down costs in the private sector. What works well in Venezuela is the private and state run systems are separate. It doesn't matter how bad the state run system gets because you are free to go to the paid clinics, which don't charge exorbitant rates because it would drive everyone to the public system. What I worry about happening here is we lose a completely free and unfettered option. If the government really can do it better and cheaper then the private sector will follow suit. If the government needs to stifle the private sector and strong arm people into their plan it only shows they can't compete. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Paul C Diem wrote: It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. But the feds current answer is to create another football team, buy new uniforms for their team with taxpayer dollars and then expect all the teams, including theirs, to suddenly start performing well. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance. On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The problem now is either people are profiting from the waste or they're too immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I don't think anyone is talking about that. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote: That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government running health care or even an option. This includes many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net wrote: Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance if you own/operate a vehicle. There are LOTS of people out there that don't. In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance period. It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and am happy with that. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that mandate. They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum liability. It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the national level. I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public healthcare because I don't live there. I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any business. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument. The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need it. The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not buying auto insurance from them if you don't need it. Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and ultimately put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them. They are taking your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something from them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit. Big difference. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. I am more than happy to pay for extra medical services. Whatever those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to pay that extra tax to drive your car? Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much... ryan On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke nstooke...@wisperisp.comwrote: Hello, I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that started WedMD years back. He was starting another company that worked with the insurance flow of paper work. He said several times that 70% to 80% of the insurance premiums we pay go to the middle man and not to pay for the doctors services. My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:22 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Yes, we in South Florida have some of the highest insurance rates (all types of insurance). There are many reasons, non of them that make a great deal of sense to me, but I have heard all kinds of excuses... The original point was, Health Care Insurance is a necessity. Health Care Insurance
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
Agreed about the lawyers, that is why it is so difficult to find an OB now. But, every single hospital, doctors office, lab, and pretty much any other health care provider offers discounts for cash pay customers. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: e...@wisp-router.com To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I would say the problems is lawyers. When a skilled good doctor that is nationally renowned as a OB can't make a living as a OB alone yet he is always busy but end up doing plastic surgery on the side because his malpractice insurance is so high (yet never had to use it) but he has to carry it. On the prices I seen the clear opposite. The insurance companies have allowed prices what the doctors can charge. If you don't have insurance you can end up paying full premiums which sometimes can be twice as much as health insurance allowed fees. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:26:22 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
No insurance was probably required to put some down, and then paid the balance quickly. Doctors and hospitals love that - it saves them a tremendous amount of money compared to the discounts that they have to give insurance, billing, time waiting for money, rebilling, giving the billing service a cut, etc. They always discount that. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
Insurance operations cost more because of the paperwork involved in claiming the insurance. I doubt it's $25k different, but... - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
If the government really can do it better and cheaper then the private sector will follow suit. Government has a history showing they can't do anything better or cheaper than the private sector. If the government can really run a better, cheaper, more efficient health insurance program than the private sector WITHOUT using tax dollars, then I'm all for it. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I believe the proposed changes have only dealt with the insurance side (government provided and more rules for the private sector insurance providers). On the healthcare provider (doctors, hospitals) side I believe they've only talked about rules. Maybe new government clinics that provide healthcare at discounted rates would help drive down costs in the private sector. What works well in Venezuela is the private and state run systems are separate. It doesn't matter how bad the state run system gets because you are free to go to the paid clinics, which don't charge exorbitant rates because it would drive everyone to the public system. What I worry about happening here is we lose a completely free and unfettered option. If the government really can do it better and cheaper then the private sector will follow suit. If the government needs to stifle the private sector and strong arm people into their plan it only shows they can't compete. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Paul C Diem wrote: It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. But the feds current answer is to create another football team, buy new uniforms for their team with taxpayer dollars and then expect all the teams, including theirs, to suddenly start performing well. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance. On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The problem now is either people are profiting from the waste or they're too immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I don't think anyone is talking about that. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote: That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government running health care or even an option. This includes many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net wrote: Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes to participate in society (work, school, food, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance if you own/operate a vehicle. There are LOTS of people out there that don't. In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance period. It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and am happy with that. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that mandate. They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum liability. It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the national level. I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public healthcare because I don't live there. I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any business. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument. The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need it. The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not buying auto insurance from them if you don't need it. Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and ultimately put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them. They are taking your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something from them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit. Big difference. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. I am more than happy to pay for extra medical services. Whatever those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to pay that extra tax to drive your car? Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much... ryan On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke nstooke...@wisperisp.comwrote: Hello, I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that started WedMD years back. He was starting another company that worked with the insurance flow of paper work. He said several times that 70% to 80% of the insurance premiums we pay go to the middle man and not to pay for the doctors services. My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. Thanks -Original Message- From:
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Why would the majority of individual people need multiple cars? I can see a family of 3 having 3 cars. I can see a worker needing a car to get around and a van/truck for work. But I can't see random Joe (like me) needing a second vehicle. Or are you including company owned vehicles? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes to participate in society (work, school, food, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance if you own/operate a vehicle. There are LOTS of people out there that don't. In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance period. It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and am happy with that. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that mandate. They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum liability. It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the national level. I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public healthcare because I don't live there. I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any business. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument. The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need it. The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not buying auto insurance from them if you don't need it. Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and ultimately put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them. They are taking your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something from them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit. Big difference. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. I am more than happy to pay for extra medical services. Whatever those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to pay that extra tax to drive your car? Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much... ryan On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke nstooke...@wisperisp.comwrote:
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 09:53, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote: Ok, but you still don't HAVE to have a car - hence you don't HAVE to have insurance. With the new plan, no matter what, I HAVE to pay for insurance. But you also have to be healthy. Unless of course you're harboring latent suicidal impulses... It is proven, if people have health insurance, they use it more than they would if paying out of pocket. Seems like that is a dangerous progression. I don't see this as a problem, really. It encourages people to be responsible for their own health, and to get regular checkups and preventative care. (I'll keep my we need single-payer rant to myself, because this whole thread is already so far off-topic for this list it ain't even funny.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Let's connect on LinkedIn
LinkedIn Paul Rice requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: -- Dave, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Paul Rice Accept invitation from Paul Rice http://www.linkedin.com/e/vl4zrL3YW0mL8E2dh-xQe8EYBOGOR-/blk/I1640578026_2/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_cBYScz0UdPkMd3oNiiYQrj9ciSdncyYMdPwUdPoOcjALrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Paul Rice http://www.linkedin.com/e/vl4zrL3YW0mL8E2dh-xQe8EYBOGOR-/blk/I1640578026_2/39vdz8Me3sRc3gSckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ -- (c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
The majority don't have more cars than people, but I don't know any in my area that has fewer cars than people, only the same or more. Some people it's sports cars; some people they have a somewhat nice car they drive in summer and a beater for winter; some people it's recreational whether its for offroading, racing, RVs, etc.; some have a commuter car and a regular car; car or two at their summer home; etc.; etc. Then there's vehicles they have due to any work or business they're involved in, but I didn't include those. This tangent is a little too far out, so any further replies on this, please direct them to me offlist. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:33 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Why would the majority of individual people need multiple cars? I can see a family of 3 having 3 cars. I can see a worker needing a car to get around and a van/truck for work. But I can't see random Joe (like me) needing a second vehicle. Or are you including company owned vehicles? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes to participate in society (work, school, food, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance if you own/operate a vehicle. There are LOTS of people out there that don't. In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance period. It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and am happy with that. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that mandate. They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum liability. It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the national level. I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public healthcare because I don't live there. I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any business. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument. The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need it. The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not buying auto insurance from them if you don't need it. Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and ultimately put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them. They are taking your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something from them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit. Big difference. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
It's 10* here right now. Gotta love it! First, LAYERS If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved shirt. Usually something like longjohns. I wear thick blue jeans. Next go the Carharts. Not a pair of knockoffs. I've got both, the Carharts are the only way to go. Much much warmer. If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over the top of all of that. I wear good, fleece lined snow boots. Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out. For gloves I have a couple of pairs. One factory one my own version. Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves. Cut the fingers out at the second knuckle. The factory ones fit a bit tighter and are easier to work with. On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts anyway. Use hand and foot warmers! I buy them by the case every year (they don't work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed). Loosely tape a warmer on each wrist. On the underneath where your arteries are at. The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use. That will do amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm! Honest. Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets. That's also near an artery and will help keep your feet warm. If there is room in your shoes, use foot warmers there too. Modern technology can be quite helpful. I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has been sitting for a while. Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of the time). For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on. It's got flaps that completely cover my ears. If it gets really nasty I'll slip a hand warmer or two in it as well. I'd love to find an even thicker version of it but haven't come up with one yet. I will also probably get a pull over ski mask one day. The kind you see crooks wear. As I've gotten older it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and windy. Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!! If it's not mission critical stay inside. Or at least keep your shifts outside short until things warm up. When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs. The cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much. The drills and cars don't like to run well etc. It's just much too hard on everything. Out here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they understand. I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow over etc.). I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily managed with cold water and slow movement Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Let's connect on LinkedIn
There was an unexpected problem that prevented us from completing your request. May need to be individualized. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com wrote: LinkedIn Paul Rice requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: -- Dave, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Paul Rice Accept invitation from Paul Rice http://www.linkedin.com/e/vl4zrL3YW0mL8E2dh-xQe8EYBOGOR-/blk/I1640578026_2/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_cBYScz0UdPkMd3oNiiYQrj9ciSdncyYMdPwUdPoOcjALrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Paul Rice http://www.linkedin.com/e/vl4zrL3YW0mL8E2dh-xQe8EYBOGOR-/blk/I1640578026_2/39vdz8Me3sRc3gSckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ -- (c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Bottom line is auto insurance is not required. However, they are proposing government run health insurance will be required and you will be fined and put in jail if you don't buy it. The entire car insurance as it compares to the proposed health insurance is a failed argument. There is no comparison. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:25 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance The majority don't have more cars than people, but I don't know any in my area that has fewer cars than people, only the same or more. Some people it's sports cars; some people they have a somewhat nice car they drive in summer and a beater for winter; some people it's recreational whether its for offroading, racing, RVs, etc.; some have a commuter car and a regular car; car or two at their summer home; etc.; etc. Then there's vehicles they have due to any work or business they're involved in, but I didn't include those. This tangent is a little too far out, so any further replies on this, please direct them to me offlist. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:33 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Why would the majority of individual people need multiple cars? I can see a family of 3 having 3 cars. I can see a worker needing a car to get around and a van/truck for work. But I can't see random Joe (like me) needing a second vehicle. Or are you including company owned vehicles? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes to participate in society (work, school, food, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance if you own/operate a vehicle. There are LOTS of people out there that don't. In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance period. It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and am happy with that. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that mandate. They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum liability. It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the national level. I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public healthcare because I don't live there. I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any business. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument. The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need it. The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not buying auto insurance from them if you don't need it. Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and ultimately put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them. They are taking your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something from them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit. Big difference. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:45, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Bottom line is auto insurance is not required. However, they are proposing government run health insurance will be required and you will be fined and put in jail if you don't buy it. [citation needed] David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
Another thing to consider in this scenario is negotiated fees. If you have insurance, the insurance company will negotiate a discount on the fees charged by the provider on your behalf. You pay your deductible, your insurance carrier pays the difference between your deductible contribution and the discounted amount. Most carriers will have pre-negotiated discounts in place with the providers. The providers try to get the costs up to factor in the discounts. In the case below, the discount could get the ultimate cost pretty close to the cash price. If this was a Medicaid case, the actual payment to the provider would be $1000 less than the cash price of $15,000. Medicaid has @ a 65% discount. You pay the insurance company a premium. Out of that premium the insurance company does three things - takes profit, pays claims and pays its administrative costs. Here are the rough numbers for the three silos: Profit 3% Overhead11% Claims 86% There isn't a whole lot of room to shift allocation on the first two items. The biggest column to move is the $.86 of every dollar that gets paid out in claims. The only way to do that is to use less services or be smarter about the ones you do use. The best way to do that is to be well. Live a healthier lifestyle = less sickness. You might be able to reduce your premiums if you promote wellness within your employees just because they will go to the doctor less. Incent them to stop smoking, loose weight, exercise etc. Share some of the savings you realize in premium dollars with them through deductible rebate, wellness program expenses etc. A healthier group will have lower premiums. It pays to have your group healthy. Our medical system is set up to treat and not prevent disease. As a nation we eat quarter pounders and drink quarts of soda. This causes heart disease. When you get heart disease, you go to the doctor, he puts you on meds and sends you to the cardiac care unit to get a cardiac procedure done. This generates big dollars for the drug company and big dollars for the hospital performing the procedure. We all could save the system, and therefore ourselves, billions just by avoiding this scenario. Chris I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent:
[WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi
I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed in 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire connection back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same subnet for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access out. Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The Tuesday before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi nor Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked for several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these issues? I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't get it to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up. http://www.aerowire.net Alan Long Director of Network Operations Aerowire http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmapaddr=687+North+Dean+Roadcsz=Aubu rn%2C+AL+36830country=us 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 mailto:alan.l...@aerowire.net alan.l...@aerowire.net tel: mobile: http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=3342759998E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 3342759998 http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=336092E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 336092 https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883src=client_sig_212_1_card_joini nvite=1=en Always have my latest info http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig=en Want a signature like this? image001.jpg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently have read more of it than you. Clearly not, or else you'd know that the fine actually is just a tax penalty, and that the current draft of the Senate Finance Committee bill actually includes an explicit provision saying the exact opposite (i.e. you explicitly cannot be jailed for failure to pay this specific tax). http://www.factcheck.org/2009/11/imprisoned-for-not-having-health-care/ Don't get me wrong, the bill still is a travesty, but that's because it doesn't go far enough in providing effective health care to tens of millions of Americans. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance If they use it more, would they have potentially expensive health issues caught faster? Again, from my experience in the ambulance, poo' people are more likely to get REALLY sick because they have no preventative care. I don't know about that. From my EMS experience, since 1977, we spend too much time playing the medicare/medicade taxi, for trips we should absolutely not be doing. The outlook is that they have medicare/caid, we have to carry them because they don't have a car, to the ER at 2:30 am, because they are drunk, or because they have a cold, etc. How is that helping? And an outlook that will get me labeled, but it appears to me that the medicare/caid folks are (absent of meth or other addictions) often the best over fed. A dear friend of mine has spent too many lifetimes in the ER as an RN, and she puts it simply - if you have trauma, if you have dangerous medical problems, she will lick the blood off of you if that is what it takes. (Note to all, its a phrase, not an action) If you have a cold? Why are you bothering me? GOMER! I fear I am digressing - no one could notice that misuse of EMS is a pet peeve could they? Another example: My $10-my-wife-hates-the-job-he-does barber was telling me he *was* on high blood pressure meds because his resting blood pressure was 130/90!. He stopped taking the meds because he got hives from them. I told him he should go back in and get the proper meds as his blood pressure was pretty darn high. He won't because he cannot afford to go in for a basic office visit.. Great, now I get to transport his behind to the hospital when he is gorked out from an aneurysm. No clinic nearby that has a sliding scale? (Everywhere has those now a days) We are talking a minor visit here, under 100 bucks at full rate. Just a med change. Priorities? Since he has no basic health care he will probably not get anything besides basic life supporting care at the hospital (or if he does, it will break him) and I will either pay the cost of his bankruptcy (in higher interest on my CCard) or I will pay for his long term care. Great, another mouth to feed. Versus going on another plan that may very well still be another mouth to feed? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards. I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable and reliable manufacturer. You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers. On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote: It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a few weeks old. I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run. So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up the mountain. Won't boot. Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep. Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road. Takes 20 min round trip) with all the parts. Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting. Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again. I see nothing. So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it in. Boots. Lights flash. Fire up the laptop and no. It's not working. log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED. Put old RB14 back in, change one radio. Boots up. Logs in. all radios detect, data flowing to customers. Drive home. Try to thaw out. The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts like a knife through you.
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
It is also snowing here in Vernalis and Modesto areas, and north, but it's barely sticking here. We haven't seen snow this low since maybe the 80's I guess I've got to put away the floral shirt and shorts and find me a hat with ears. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's snowing here! Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi
Broadcast storm? Alan Long wrote: I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed in 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire connection back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same subnet for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access out. Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The Tuesday before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi nor Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked for several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these issues? I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't get it to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up. http://www.aerowire.net Alan Long Director of Network Operations Aerowire http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmapaddr=687+North+Dean+Roadcsz=Aubu rn%2C+AL+36830country=us 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 mailto:alan.l...@aerowire.net alan.l...@aerowire.net tel: mobile: http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=3342759998E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 3342759998 http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=336092E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 336092 https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883src=client_sig_212_1_card_joini nvite=1=en Always have my latest info http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig=en Want a signature like this? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
SShhh, don't tell him that, hes a StarOS guy =) Along the same, my primary site went down last night, cycling every 30~45seconds. -15F reported at the site this morning. RB433 is spec'd for -4FW T F Time to replace it with a few NS's and a RB450/750 in better temp controlled case. To bad they do not make a RB790 with POE =) jp wrote: I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards. I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable and reliable manufacturer. You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers. On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote: It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a few weeks old. I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run. So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up the mountain. Won't boot. Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep. Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road. Takes 20 min round trip) with all the parts. Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting. Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again. I see nothing. So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
Thanks for this list. We don't see a lot of really cold weather, but when a cold storm comes through, it seems that's when I have to go fix something on the towermy pal Murphy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:36 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! Thanks, Shaddi. Good list. Haven't thought at all about some of that. I'll look it all over. I forgot to mention it all has to fit under the safety harness as well! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Shaddi Hasan Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! This is mostly from my list of gear I use for backpacking and biking during winter... maybe it'll be useful to you, though. First, my two favorite pieces of gear are a Windstopper fleece tobaggon and a pair of silk-weight windstopper gloves. Windstopper is a wind-proof, water-resistant fabric that in my experience is a good, cheaper alternative to Goretex in non-wet conditions. Mountain Hardware sells one of these (I think they call it Dome Perignon) that I could not get through winter without. Manzella sells the best silkweight windstopper gloves I've found. They are seriously thin (like a cotton t-shirt), so they don't impede motion, but because they are windproof and water resistant they do wonders for keeping hands warm. I have a pair of down mittens I wear over them in wet and super-cold conditions, but otherwise those gloves work great. Second, I strongly believe in the benefits of a good baselayer. This means longjohns and long undershirts. The material makes a /huge/ difference here. Polyester or polypropylene is best, in my experience, though I've heard merino wool is pretty awesome too. REI sells this under the name MTS; they have a range of weights, but I've found midweight to be pretty sufficient for me. And don't forget socks! Wool socks are a must, they will change your life... When it gets really cold, I put on the down. Nothing can beat down for warmth and weight, but it doesn't retain heat when wet, which is very important to remember. Itis a bit pricey though, and you have to take care of it well. Generally, knowing your fabrics and how to layer properly will go a long way in keeping you warm. Hats make the biggest difference in keeping you warm, and a good base layer will let your body's natural means of keeping warm be effective. Most of this stuff you can buy at outdoors or climbing stores, or online from backcountry.com or REI.com. FWIW, I live in North Carolina, so your definition of cold may differ slightly than mine. But, I have used most of this stuff at altitude so I'm confident in its warm-keeping ability. Shaddi On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
Thanks, Marlon. You have any picture of you in all that?! Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE? Just askin' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's 10* here right now. Gotta love it! First, LAYERS If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved shirt. Usually something like longjohns. I wear thick blue jeans. Next go the Carharts. Not a pair of knockoffs. I've got both, the Carharts are the only way to go. Much much warmer. If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over the top of all of that. I wear good, fleece lined snow boots. Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out. For gloves I have a couple of pairs. One factory one my own version. Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves. Cut the fingers out at the second knuckle. The factory ones fit a bit tighter and are easier to work with. On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts anyway. Use hand and foot warmers! I buy them by the case every year (they don't work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed). Loosely tape a warmer on each wrist. On the underneath where your arteries are at. The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use. That will do amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm! Honest. Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets. That's also near an artery and will help keep your feet warm. If there is room in your shoes, use foot warmers there too. Modern technology can be quite helpful. I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has been sitting for a while. Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of the time). For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on. It's got flaps that completely cover my ears. If it gets really nasty I'll slip a hand warmer or two in it as well. I'd love to find an even thicker version of it but haven't come up with one yet. I will also probably get a pull over ski mask one day. The kind you see crooks wear. As I've gotten older it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and windy. Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!! If it's not mission critical stay inside. Or at least keep your shifts outside short until things warm up. When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs. The cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much. The drills and cars don't like to run well etc. It's just much too hard on everything. Out here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they understand. I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow over etc.). I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily managed with cold water and slow movement Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
You got it. It runs like a dream unless it's 2am, 5 below, 2 foot of snow and the ladder to the top is covered in ice. Other than that, it's a happy day. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! Thanks for this list. We don't see a lot of really cold weather, but when a cold storm comes through, it seems that's when I have to go fix something on the towermy pal Murphy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:36 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! Thanks, Shaddi. Good list. Haven't thought at all about some of that. I'll look it all over. I forgot to mention it all has to fit under the safety harness as well! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Shaddi Hasan Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! This is mostly from my list of gear I use for backpacking and biking during winter... maybe it'll be useful to you, though. First, my two favorite pieces of gear are a Windstopper fleece tobaggon and a pair of silk-weight windstopper gloves. Windstopper is a wind-proof, water-resistant fabric that in my experience is a good, cheaper alternative to Goretex in non-wet conditions. Mountain Hardware sells one of these (I think they call it Dome Perignon) that I could not get through winter without. Manzella sells the best silkweight windstopper gloves I've found. They are seriously thin (like a cotton t-shirt), so they don't impede motion, but because they are windproof and water resistant they do wonders for keeping hands warm. I have a pair of down mittens I wear over them in wet and super-cold conditions, but otherwise those gloves work great. Second, I strongly believe in the benefits of a good baselayer. This means longjohns and long undershirts. The material makes a /huge/ difference here. Polyester or polypropylene is best, in my experience, though I've heard merino wool is pretty awesome too. REI sells this under the name MTS; they have a range of weights, but I've found midweight to be pretty sufficient for me. And don't forget socks! Wool socks are a must, they will change your life... When it gets really cold, I put on the down. Nothing can beat down for warmth and weight, but it doesn't retain heat when wet, which is very important to remember. Itis a bit pricey though, and you have to take care of it well. Generally, knowing your fabrics and how to layer properly will go a long way in keeping you warm. Hats make the biggest difference in keeping you warm, and a good base layer will let your body's natural means of keeping warm be effective. Most of this stuff you can buy at outdoors or climbing stores, or online from backcountry.com or REI.com. FWIW, I live in North Carolina, so your definition of cold may differ slightly than mine. But, I have used most of this stuff at altitude so I'm confident in its warm-keeping ability. Shaddi On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
Actually, as long as it is all done with quality (read: expensive) gear, it really wouldn't look all that different. We saw temps of -40 F for a while last winter, and Marlon is spot on. The only thing that I would add is to make sure that the layer closest to your skin is something other than cotton (something polyester or wool, Under Armor is great but expensive), especially if there is a chance that layer could get wet. Josh Robert West wrote: Thanks, Marlon. You have any picture of you in all that?! Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE? Just askin' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's 10* here right now. Gotta love it! First, LAYERS If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved shirt. Usually something like longjohns. I wear thick blue jeans. Next go the Carharts. Not a pair of knockoffs. I've got both, the Carharts are the only way to go. Much much warmer. If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over the top of all of that. I wear good, fleece lined snow boots. Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out. For gloves I have a couple of pairs. One factory one my own version. Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves. Cut the fingers out at the second knuckle. The factory ones fit a bit tighter and are easier to work with. On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts anyway. Use hand and foot warmers! I buy them by the case every year (they don't work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed). Loosely tape a warmer on each wrist. On the underneath where your arteries are at. The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use. That will do amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm! Honest. Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets. That's also near an artery and will help keep your feet warm. If there is room in your shoes, use foot warmers there too. Modern technology can be quite helpful. I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has been sitting for a while. Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of the time). For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on. It's got flaps that completely cover my ears. If it gets really nasty I'll slip a hand warmer or two in it as well. I'd love to find an even thicker version of it but haven't come up with one yet. I will also probably get a pull over ski mask one day. The kind you see crooks wear. As I've gotten older it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and windy. Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!! If it's not mission critical stay inside. Or at least keep your shifts outside short until things warm up. When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs. The cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much. The drills and cars don't like to run well etc. It's just much too hard on everything. Out here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they understand. I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow over etc.). I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily managed with cold water and slow movement Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
That made me smile Robert. Thank you for that! Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! Thanks, Marlon. You have any picture of you in all that?! Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE? Just askin' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's 10* here right now. Gotta love it! First, LAYERS If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved shirt. Usually something like longjohns. I wear thick blue jeans. Next go the Carharts. Not a pair of knockoffs. I've got both, the Carharts are the only way to go. Much much warmer. If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over the top of all of that. I wear good, fleece lined snow boots. Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out. For gloves I have a couple of pairs. One factory one my own version. Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves. Cut the fingers out at the second knuckle. The factory ones fit a bit tighter and are easier to work with. On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts anyway. Use hand and foot warmers! I buy them by the case every year (they don't work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed). Loosely tape a warmer on each wrist. On the underneath where your arteries are at. The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use. That will do amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm! Honest. Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets. That's also near an artery and will help keep your feet warm. If there is room in your shoes, use foot warmers there too. Modern technology can be quite helpful. I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has been sitting for a while. Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of the time). For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on. It's got flaps that completely cover my ears. If it gets really nasty I'll slip a hand warmer or two in it as well. I'd love to find an even thicker version of it but haven't come up with one yet. I will also probably get a pull over ski mask one day. The kind you see crooks wear. As I've gotten older it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and windy. Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!! If it's not mission critical stay inside. Or at least keep your shifts outside short until things warm up. When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs. The cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much. The drills and cars don't like to run well etc. It's just much too hard on everything. Out here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they understand. I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow over etc.). I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily managed with cold water and slow movement Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
You're welcome. I've already envisioned PoE powered socks and gloves as well. Just install a switch inside the lining of your coat and one cable controls all. Make it IP based and you can monitor and control the temps as Zones with the your iPhone or Blackberry. Feet Cold? We have an App for that! Sadly, you want one, you know you do. Yet, it is only the fantasy male geeks everywhere. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:22 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! That made me smile Robert. Thank you for that! Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! Thanks, Marlon. You have any picture of you in all that?! Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE? Just askin' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's 10* here right now. Gotta love it! First, LAYERS If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved shirt. Usually something like longjohns. I wear thick blue jeans. Next go the Carharts. Not a pair of knockoffs. I've got both, the Carharts are the only way to go. Much much warmer. If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over the top of all of that. I wear good, fleece lined snow boots. Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out. For gloves I have a couple of pairs. One factory one my own version. Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves. Cut the fingers out at the second knuckle. The factory ones fit a bit tighter and are easier to work with. On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts anyway. Use hand and foot warmers! I buy them by the case every year (they don't work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed). Loosely tape a warmer on each wrist. On the underneath where your arteries are at. The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use. That will do amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm! Honest. Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets. That's also near an artery and will help keep your feet warm. If there is room in your shoes, use foot warmers there too. Modern technology can be quite helpful. I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has been sitting for a while. Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of the time). For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on. It's got flaps that completely cover my ears. If it gets really nasty I'll slip a hand warmer or two in it as well. I'd love to find an even thicker version of it but haven't come up with one yet. I will also probably get a pull over ski mask one day. The kind you see crooks wear. As I've gotten older it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and windy. Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!! If it's not mission critical stay inside. Or at least keep your shifts outside short until things warm up. When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs. The cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much. The drills and cars don't like to run well etc. It's just much too hard on everything. Out here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they understand. I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow over etc.). I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily managed with cold water and slow movement Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
Thinsulate is good and light. Redwing has some insulated lace up boots with Thinsulate. They have fiberglass shanks and fiberglass toes instead of steel -- supposed to be safer for electricians. I think the Wrangler jeans with Thinsulate in them are awesome. It's warmer than long johns and regular jeans. Wool socks, with a silk under sock is the answer for warm feet. Some people just use thin tight socks as the first layer, but the two layers is the answer. Thinsulate gloves are the best going. A pair of tight goatskin or deer skin gloves will give you some dexterity. Use a larger pair of gloves with Thinsulate in them over them when you don't need the dexterity. I don't mind the cold. Wind and wind blown snow are my bane. Mike At 01:07 AM 12/7/2009, you wrote: It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
Don't use steel wool. You will never get all the steel back out. Clean them with warm soapy water and let them dry well. The black you are seeing is probably silver oxide on the silver plating. Silver oxide conducts RF just fine. They can be really black and still work just fine. At 01:51 AM 12/7/2009, you wrote: Another issue I find myself with... Dude gives me 4 2.4GHz Andrews 90 degree sectors. Cool! But I have to take them down if I want them. So I go to take them down. Hey! No LMR-400 on these things! Just naked N connectors... WTF?! Oh yeah, I put them up there but never got around to running any cable. says Wisp operator useta-wannabe. Nice. They were up there naked since spring. Inside of the connectors look okay but still not perfect. I read on the net about using alcohol, sounds bogus unless I'm supposed to drink it until I no longer care. My first thought is steel wool then I imagined myself striping the gold surface of the interior. One connector is a bit black on the outside threads, I attribute this to the large amount of bird crap on the radome. Fun. What's the right way to rehab these things? Never had to deal with this before, I tape everything including the cat. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
If it works off batteries, you could easily make a breakout panel. Plug the cable into your coat. Take the power to the coat. Data pairs to another jack. Plug in the laptop. Stay warm and configure away. Robert West wrote: Thanks, Marlon. You have any picture of you in all that?! Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE? Just askin' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's 10* here right now. Gotta love it! First, LAYERS If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved shirt. Usually something like longjohns. I wear thick blue jeans. Next go the Carharts. Not a pair of knockoffs. I've got both, the Carharts are the only way to go. Much much warmer. If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over the top of all of that. I wear good, fleece lined snow boots. Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out. For gloves I have a couple of pairs. One factory one my own version. Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves. Cut the fingers out at the second knuckle. The factory ones fit a bit tighter and are easier to work with. On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts anyway. Use hand and foot warmers! I buy them by the case every year (they don't work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed). Loosely tape a warmer on each wrist. On the underneath where your arteries are at. The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use. That will do amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm! Honest. Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets. That's also near an artery and will help keep your feet warm. If there is room in your shoes, use foot warmers there too. Modern technology can be quite helpful. I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has been sitting for a while. Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of the time). For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on. It's got flaps that completely cover my ears. If it gets really nasty I'll slip a hand warmer or two in it as well. I'd love to find an even thicker version of it but haven't come up with one yet. I will also probably get a pull over ski mask one day. The kind you see crooks wear. As I've gotten older it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and windy. Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!! If it's not mission critical stay inside. Or at least keep your shifts outside short until things warm up. When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs. The cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much. The drills and cars don't like to run well etc. It's just much too hard on everything. Out here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they understand. I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow over etc.). I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily managed with cold water and slow movement Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
Sounds reasonable to me. I have found that my first instinct is often not correct. Hence the existence of my first wife. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors Don't use steel wool. You will never get all the steel back out. Clean them with warm soapy water and let them dry well. The black you are seeing is probably silver oxide on the silver plating. Silver oxide conducts RF just fine. They can be really black and still work just fine. At 01:51 AM 12/7/2009, you wrote: Another issue I find myself with... Dude gives me 4 2.4GHz Andrews 90 degree sectors. Cool! But I have to take them down if I want them. So I go to take them down. Hey! No LMR-400 on these things! Just naked N connectors... WTF?! Oh yeah, I put them up there but never got around to running any cable. says Wisp operator useta-wannabe. Nice. They were up there naked since spring. Inside of the connectors look okay but still not perfect. I read on the net about using alcohol, sounds bogus unless I'm supposed to drink it until I no longer care. My first thought is steel wool then I imagined myself striping the gold surface of the interior. One connector is a bit black on the outside threads, I attribute this to the large amount of bird crap on the radome. Fun. What's the right way to rehab these things? Never had to deal with this before, I tape everything including the cat. Bob- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
We have the makings of a product here. No, not one that will generate cash but a real bonafide product that someone could lose a lot of money manufacturing and marketing. It's the American way. (Made in China, of course) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! If it works off batteries, you could easily make a breakout panel. Plug the cable into your coat. Take the power to the coat. Data pairs to another jack. Plug in the laptop. Stay warm and configure away. Robert West wrote: Thanks, Marlon. You have any picture of you in all that?! Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE? Just askin' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's 10* here right now. Gotta love it! First, LAYERS If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved shirt. Usually something like longjohns. I wear thick blue jeans. Next go the Carharts. Not a pair of knockoffs. I've got both, the Carharts are the only way to go. Much much warmer. If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over the top of all of that. I wear good, fleece lined snow boots. Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out. For gloves I have a couple of pairs. One factory one my own version. Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves. Cut the fingers out at the second knuckle. The factory ones fit a bit tighter and are easier to work with. On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts anyway. Use hand and foot warmers! I buy them by the case every year (they don't work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed). Loosely tape a warmer on each wrist. On the underneath where your arteries are at. The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use. That will do amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm! Honest. Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets. That's also near an artery and will help keep your feet warm. If there is room in your shoes, use foot warmers there too. Modern technology can be quite helpful. I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has been sitting for a while. Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of the time). For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on. It's got flaps that completely cover my ears. If it gets really nasty I'll slip a hand warmer or two in it as well. I'd love to find an even thicker version of it but haven't come up with one yet. I will also probably get a pull over ski mask one day. The kind you see crooks wear. As I've gotten older it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and windy. Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!! If it's not mission critical stay inside. Or at least keep your shifts outside short until things warm up. When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs. The cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much. The drills and cars don't like to run well etc. It's just much too hard on everything. Out here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they understand. I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow over etc.). I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily managed with cold water and slow movement Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob-
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Concerning mandatory auto insurance, I think missing is the fact that while not required to have a car, I would be hard pressed to survive without a human body. The requirement for all that drive cars represents the same principle, that if everyone that fits the profile (car drivers, those with human bodies, whatever) responsibly share the risk (insurance), it is fairest to all. My rates for uninsured motorist coverage are way below what they were before mandatory insurance. Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Bowers Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Ok, but you still don't HAVE to have a car - hence you don't HAVE to have insurance. With the new plan, no matter what, I HAVE to pay for insurance. You can bet, if I HAVE to, I will go to the doctor more often. I recently had the flu. Swine most likely, normally the flu will have me down for 2-3 days. This one, 3 WEEKS in bed. I never went to the doctor, what was the point. Sound financial decision. If I had insurance, I would have been right there, just in case there was something that might be able to be done. It is proven, if people have health insurance, they use it more than they would if paying out of pocket. Seems like that is a dangerous progression. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes to participate in society (work, school, food, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance if you own/operate a vehicle. There are LOTS of people out there that don't. In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance period. It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and am happy with that. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that mandate. They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum liability. It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the national level. I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public healthcare because I don't live there. I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any business. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument. The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need it. The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not buying auto insurance from them if you don't need it. Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and ultimately put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them. They are taking your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something from them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit. Big difference. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Take away my ice cream then. I pay my own way - and I am fairly healthy although I could lose some weight. I still run circles around my firefighters on my fire department, the ones that are 20-25 years younger than I. Where does all this stop? Will they actually want to take away my ice cream? The scoop comes away only when you pry it from my cold dead fingers You use a scoop? I just take care of the pint sized containers. :) ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
I have RB333, 532, 433 and 411 survive without issue last winter when it hit -10F. Non temperature controlled environments - freezing their chips off on water towers and towers. I'd take the suggestion provided and just use a Routerboard. ITX is decent but I've seen several scenarios frown upon it in cold weather (like carputers)? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: MT provides a specially modified RB14 (at least they did a few years ago) that handles multiple high power cards. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards. I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable and reliable manufacturer. You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers. On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote: It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and
Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi
When you say no wifi does that mean you can not connect to the AP or that your laptop doesn't see the AP broadcasting in 2.4? I would have to guess packet storm as well. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.netwrote: Broadcast storm? Alan Long wrote: I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed in 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire connection back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same subnet for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access out. Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The Tuesday before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi nor Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked for several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these issues? I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't get it to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up. http://www.aerowire.net Alan Long Director of Network Operations Aerowire http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmapaddr=687+North+Dean+Roadcsz=Aubu rn%2C+AL+36830country=us 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 mailto:alan.l...@aerowire.net alan.l...@aerowire.net tel: mobile: http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=3342759998E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 3342759998 http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=336092E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 336092 https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883src=client_sig_212_1_card_joini nvite=1=en Always have my latest info http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig=en Want a signature like this? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
If the current draft now says you can't be jailed for not paying this particular tax/fine then ok, but that's not the way it was written earlier. I wouldn't be surprised if this is flipped back...sooner or later. Regardless, the government is forcing you to buy something from them at a price they determine with services they see fit. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently have read more of it than you. Clearly not, or else you'd know that the fine actually is just a tax penalty, and that the current draft of the Senate Finance Committee bill actually includes an explicit provision saying the exact opposite (i.e. you explicitly cannot be jailed for failure to pay this specific tax). http://www.factcheck.org/2009/11/imprisoned-for-not-having-health-care/ Don't get me wrong, the bill still is a travesty, but that's because it doesn't go far enough in providing effective health care to tens of millions of Americans. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi
Can't connect via wifi or Ethernet, can't see it via 2.4. I have the sniffer going now. Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi When you say no wifi does that mean you can not connect to the AP or that your laptop doesn't see the AP broadcasting in 2.4? I would have to guess packet storm as well. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.netwrote: Broadcast storm? Alan Long wrote: I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed in 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire connection back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same subnet for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access out. Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The Tuesday before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi nor Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked for several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these issues? I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't get it to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up. http://www.aerowire.net Alan Long Director of Network Operations Aerowire http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmapaddr=687+North+Dean+Roadcsz=Aubu rn%2C+AL+36830country=us 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 mailto:alan.l...@aerowire.net alan.l...@aerowire.net tel: mobile: http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=3342759998E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 3342759998 http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=336092E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 336092 https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883src=client_sig_212_1_card_joini nvite=1=en Always have my latest info http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig=en Want a signature like this? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.97/2550 - Release Date: 12/07/09 01:33:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
Get a bigger harness! You might need two of them marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! Thanks, Shaddi. Good list. Haven't thought at all about some of that. I'll look it all over. I forgot to mention it all has to fit under the safety harness as well! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Shaddi Hasan Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! This is mostly from my list of gear I use for backpacking and biking during winter... maybe it'll be useful to you, though. First, my two favorite pieces of gear are a Windstopper fleece tobaggon and a pair of silk-weight windstopper gloves. Windstopper is a wind-proof, water-resistant fabric that in my experience is a good, cheaper alternative to Goretex in non-wet conditions. Mountain Hardware sells one of these (I think they call it Dome Perignon) that I could not get through winter without. Manzella sells the best silkweight windstopper gloves I've found. They are seriously thin (like a cotton t-shirt), so they don't impede motion, but because they are windproof and water resistant they do wonders for keeping hands warm. I have a pair of down mittens I wear over them in wet and super-cold conditions, but otherwise those gloves work great. Second, I strongly believe in the benefits of a good baselayer. This means longjohns and long undershirts. The material makes a /huge/ difference here. Polyester or polypropylene is best, in my experience, though I've heard merino wool is pretty awesome too. REI sells this under the name MTS; they have a range of weights, but I've found midweight to be pretty sufficient for me. And don't forget socks! Wool socks are a must, they will change your life... When it gets really cold, I put on the down. Nothing can beat down for warmth and weight, but it doesn't retain heat when wet, which is very important to remember. Itis a bit pricey though, and you have to take care of it well. Generally, knowing your fabrics and how to layer properly will go a long way in keeping you warm. Hats make the biggest difference in keeping you warm, and a good base layer will let your body's natural means of keeping warm be effective. Most of this stuff you can buy at outdoors or climbing stores, or online from backcountry.com or REI.com. FWIW, I live in North Carolina, so your definition of cold may differ slightly than mine. But, I have used most of this stuff at altitude so I'm confident in its warm-keeping ability. Shaddi On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
If it were me? Toss em and start over. Not worth the trouble. Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it. marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:51 PM Subject: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors Another issue I find myself with... Dude gives me 4 2.4GHz Andrews 90 degree sectors. Cool! But I have to take them down if I want them. So I go to take them down. Hey! No LMR-400 on these things! Just naked N connectors... WTF?! Oh yeah, I put them up there but never got around to running any cable. says Wisp operator useta-wannabe. Nice. They were up there naked since spring. Inside of the connectors look okay but still not perfect. I read on the net about using alcohol, sounds bogus unless I'm supposed to drink it until I no longer care. My first thought is steel wool then I imagined myself striping the gold surface of the interior. One connector is a bit black on the outside threads, I attribute this to the large amount of bird crap on the radome. Fun. What's the right way to rehab these things? Never had to deal with this before, I tape everything including the cat. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
Praying for ya! I can identify as many here can and we feel your pain. Below freezing weather really sucks. I had several sessions like that last year. One time, I had to borrow a friends bucket and it was full of water and wouldnt drain. So I was in the ice cube filled bucket up to my knees for about 3 hours. Not sure how I made it. The next time, the bucket was drained OK but the hydralics had a leak and would let me down. Thats when the snow storm hit. After waiting for help about an hour, I decided to jump to the rusty silo ladder about 5 feet away. I vowed to prepare for this winter. Time will tell. Hang in there buddy! -RickG On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:49 AM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a few weeks old. I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run. So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up the mountain. Won't boot. Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep. Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road. Takes 20 min round trip) with all the parts. Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting. Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again. I see nothing. So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it in. Boots. Lights flash. Fire up the laptop and no. It's not working. log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED. Put old RB14 back in, change one radio. Boots up. Logs in. all radios detect, data flowing to customers. Drive home. Try to thaw out. The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts like a knife through you.Log in from home and watch everything, suddenly noticed one of the ap radios has no clients. Odd. Look at config, looks ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate. As they slowly hop on, I'm sitting there wondering why this... and just then, PM suddenly
Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi
If you can't see the 2.4 spectrum then the device simply locked up. What is causing it sounds like a bug to me. One simple broadcast packet nails several of the radios and freaks them out. Do you have the latest firmware for them? In the past these radios would lose their config if they had to switch modes (that is, if the default mode out of the box is bridge you will lose the config - if the default mode out of the box is AP you're safe). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Alan Long alan.l...@aerowire.net wrote: Can't connect via wifi or Ethernet, can't see it via 2.4. I have the sniffer going now. Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi When you say no wifi does that mean you can not connect to the AP or that your laptop doesn't see the AP broadcasting in 2.4? I would have to guess packet storm as well. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.netwrote: Broadcast storm? Alan Long wrote: I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed in 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire connection back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same subnet for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access out. Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The Tuesday before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi nor Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked for several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these issues? I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't get it to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up. http://www.aerowire.net Alan Long Director of Network Operations Aerowire http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmapaddr=687+North+Dean+Roadcsz=Aubu rn%2C+AL+36830country=us 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 mailto:alan.l...@aerowire.net alan.l...@aerowire.net tel: mobile: http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=3342759998E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 3342759998 http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=336092E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 336092 https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883src=client_sig_212_1_card_joini nvite=1=en Always have my latest info http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig=en Want a signature like this? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
I had that once. Then I woke up and things were worse than the nightmare. So I went back to sleep :) On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a nightmare? At least you got a new hat. That's the bright side out of all this, I say. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a few weeks old. I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run. So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up the mountain. Won't boot. Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep. Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road. Takes 20 min round trip) with all the parts. Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting. Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again. I see nothing. So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it in. Boots. Lights flash. Fire up the laptop and no. It's not working. log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED. Put old RB14 back in, change one radio. Boots up. Logs in. all radios detect, data flowing to customers. Drive home. Try to thaw out. The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts like a knife through you.Log in from home and watch everything, suddenly noticed one of the ap radios has no clients. Odd. Look at config, looks ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate. As they slowly hop on, I'm sitting there wondering why this... and just then, PM suddenly starts popping up red.Sure enough. System locked. Drive up the mountain, put in second spare radio in place of XR5 and boot.
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
LOL!It really was a very warm hat. -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:58 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a nightmare? At least you got a new hat. That's the bright side out of all this, I say. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
It's true! Having resources in times of need are important. I have a few good customers I can call on. Most are hams. One time I climbed up a 200' tower several times to replace everything in an attempt to fix it. I had been up late the night before and ran out of energy. So, I called one of the guys and he came out and wrapped it up for me. Of course, Murphy is always around and when it hits the fan everyone is out of town :) On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: It is amazing what a new hat can do for your outlook on outside work. I was having a *(^ day in a bucket truck and my wife came by with a hat that had been sitting on the dash of her truck with the warm defroster running on it. I think just that hat recharged me for another 6 hours! :) That and the fact that someone cares about you... As for the very long night.. I had an issue where I was not getting BGP updates from neighboring ISPs when working for a colo. It was an all nighter and I finally had the wherewithal to call an alpha geek friend of mine. (his license plate is his ARIN NIC). After asking me a few questions to see if he could fix things quickly, he told me to go take a nap and not call him until I had slept for at least 2 hours. I protested, but he assured me we could fix things faster and more effectively if I had some small amount of sleep. Well, 3 hours later, and well rested, I noticed an ACL blocking incoming route announcements from my peers. I swear had I not taken that nap it would have taken me 5 hours to notice! ryan On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a nightmare? At least you got a new hat. That's the bright side out of all this, I say. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
I've had a great experince over the past few years with StarOS/WRAP combos. They just work. With that said, I am slowly migrating to Mikrotik/Routerboards because I like the control they offer. So far, they just work as well. -RickG On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: SShhh, don't tell him that, hes a StarOS guy =) Along the same, my primary site went down last night, cycling every 30~45seconds. -15F reported at the site this morning. RB433 is spec'd for -4FW T F Time to replace it with a few NS's and a RB450/750 in better temp controlled case. To bad they do not make a RB790 with POE =) jp wrote: I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards. I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable and reliable manufacturer. You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers. On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote: It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a few weeks old. I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run. So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up the mountain. Won't boot. Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep. Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I drive
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
You should post pictures of the hat! MDK wrote: LOL!It really was a very warm hat. -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:58 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a nightmare? At least you got a new hat. That's the bright side out of all this, I say. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Amen Brother! But, I'm not sure the new choices are much better.We need a few good men! On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Vote 'em out! I'm speaking of any representative regardless of party affiliation that has voted for government run health care. They clearly aren't listening to the people they represent. Look closely at the incumbent's voting record and listen to the challenger's ideas during the primaries. I know I won't be voting for very many incumbents come next year and will be looking to help put representation in place that reflects ideas and values that I agree with. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government running health care or even an option. This includes many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net wrote: Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. I am more than happy to pay for extra medical services. Whatever those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to pay that extra tax to drive your car? Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much... ryan On
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
There really should not be government assistance. But then back to reality, it is here and will probably always will be. In that case, I agree that IF you are taking government assistance in any form it should require an exchange of strict rules that promote proper personal responsibility. It also should be very limited in time and dollars. In the application to health care, IF you get assistance then they start looking at your life style, etc. IF you dont take assistance - get outta my face and my pocketbook! On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:14 AM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance. On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The problem now is either people are profiting from the waste or they're too immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I don't think anyone is talking about that. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote: That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government running health care or even an option. This includes many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net wrote: Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
When the Constitution is called No longer relevant to a modern society on the floor of the House of Representatives and there is no uproar over it As I said before, I've stopped paying too much attention to the news. Did that really happen? If so, I believe the real problem is that there was no uproar from we the people over it. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance It's because it started out as a good idea but the ones with the cash and who are looking to protect their slice of our cash as well as enhance it, (Insurance companies), have been allowed to trade policy for dollars. It all comes down to one thing, cash. He who has the most cash wins. It's not supposed to be that way but unfortunately as long as the ones who are benefiting from all that cash are the ones who are sitting in both houses this is what we will have. No matter what your politics may be, dollars do not make good policy. We can all Vote the bums out but the reality is that we only get new bums. Until the system of cash for votes is wiped out it will only get worse and we are seeing it escalating more and more each year. Tend to the issue of WHY we are stuck with this power to the dollar and then we can work on getting it back to power to the people. When the Constitution is called No longer relevant to a modern society on the floor of the House of Representatives and there is no uproar over it, There's your sign! Had to throw my 35 cents in. (It's no longer 2 cents, had to raise the price due to the economy. A guy has to eat, ya know.) Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance If the current draft now says you can't be jailed for not paying this particular tax/fine then ok, but that's not the way it was written earlier. I wouldn't be surprised if this is flipped back...sooner or later. Regardless, the government is forcing you to buy something from them at a price they determine with services they see fit. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently have read more of it than you. Clearly not, or else you'd know that the fine actually is just a tax penalty, and that the current draft of the Senate Finance Committee bill actually includes an explicit provision saying the exact opposite (i.e. you explicitly cannot be jailed for failure to pay this specific tax). http://www.factcheck.org/2009/11/imprisoned-for-not-having-health-care/ Don't get me wrong, the bill still is a travesty, but that's because it doesn't go far enough in providing effective health care to tens of millions of Americans. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi
All the configs were fine after reboot. I do have the latest firmware on all of them. I even reloaded the firmware on a few of them and still had them lock up. Since going to router in front of them, they are working ok. Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi If you can't see the 2.4 spectrum then the device simply locked up. What is causing it sounds like a bug to me. One simple broadcast packet nails several of the radios and freaks them out. Do you have the latest firmware for them? In the past these radios would lose their config if they had to switch modes (that is, if the default mode out of the box is bridge you will lose the config - if the default mode out of the box is AP you're safe). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Alan Long alan.l...@aerowire.net wrote: Can't connect via wifi or Ethernet, can't see it via 2.4. I have the sniffer going now. Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi When you say no wifi does that mean you can not connect to the AP or that your laptop doesn't see the AP broadcasting in 2.4? I would have to guess packet storm as well. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.netwrote: Broadcast storm? Alan Long wrote: I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed in 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire connection back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same subnet for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access out. Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The Tuesday before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi nor Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked for several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these issues? I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't get it to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up. http://www.aerowire.net Alan Long Director of Network Operations Aerowire http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmapaddr=687+North+Dean+Roadcsz=Aubu rn%2C+AL+36830country=us 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 mailto:alan.l...@aerowire.net alan.l...@aerowire.net tel: mobile: http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=3342759998E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 3342759998 http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=336092E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 336092 https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883src=client_sig_212_1_card_joini nvite=1=en Always have my latest info http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig=en Want a signature like this? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
LOL I do have a pick but fortunately I can't seem to find it right now. marlon - Original Message - From: Jeff Broadwick jeffl...@comcast.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! That made me smile Robert. Thank you for that! Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! Thanks, Marlon. You have any picture of you in all that?! Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE? Just askin' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's 10* here right now. Gotta love it! First, LAYERS If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved shirt. Usually something like longjohns. I wear thick blue jeans. Next go the Carharts. Not a pair of knockoffs. I've got both, the Carharts are the only way to go. Much much warmer. If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over the top of all of that. I wear good, fleece lined snow boots. Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out. For gloves I have a couple of pairs. One factory one my own version. Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves. Cut the fingers out at the second knuckle. The factory ones fit a bit tighter and are easier to work with. On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts anyway. Use hand and foot warmers! I buy them by the case every year (they don't work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed). Loosely tape a warmer on each wrist. On the underneath where your arteries are at. The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use. That will do amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm! Honest. Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets. That's also near an artery and will help keep your feet warm. If there is room in your shoes, use foot warmers there too. Modern technology can be quite helpful. I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has been sitting for a while. Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of the time). For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on. It's got flaps that completely cover my ears. If it gets really nasty I'll slip a hand warmer or two in it as well. I'd love to find an even thicker version of it but haven't come up with one yet. I will also probably get a pull over ski mask one day. The kind you see crooks wear. As I've gotten older it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and windy. Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!! If it's not mission critical stay inside. Or at least keep your shifts outside short until things warm up. When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs. The cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much. The drills and cars don't like to run well etc. It's just much too hard on everything. Out here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they understand. I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow over etc.). I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily managed with cold water and slow movement Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob-
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
I hesitate to jump into this, but this particular issue had to do with what would happen if you didn't pay the fine for not having insurance. It is really just a tax, and the IRS considers non-payment the same as tax fraud...thus the potential of jail time. A Congressman sent a letter to the IRS and they verified it. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance If the current draft now says you can't be jailed for not paying this particular tax/fine then ok, but that's not the way it was written earlier. I wouldn't be surprised if this is flipped back...sooner or later. Regardless, the government is forcing you to buy something from them at a price they determine with services they see fit. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently have read more of it than you. Clearly not, or else you'd know that the fine actually is just a tax penalty, and that the current draft of the Senate Finance Committee bill actually includes an explicit provision saying the exact opposite (i.e. you explicitly cannot be jailed for failure to pay this specific tax). http://www.factcheck.org/2009/11/imprisoned-for-not-having-health-care/ Don't get me wrong, the bill still is a travesty, but that's because it doesn't go far enough in providing effective health care to tens of millions of Americans. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
h http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SJ5S43VGz5Q/StJenrWlLxI/FzI/b4UybsR59aw/s400/blanket+coat+2.jpg http://www.gerbing.com/coreheat.net/Products/Products.html Let me know how any of that works! marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! You're welcome. I've already envisioned PoE powered socks and gloves as well. Just install a switch inside the lining of your coat and one cable controls all. Make it IP based and you can monitor and control the temps as Zones with the your iPhone or Blackberry. Feet Cold? We have an App for that! Sadly, you want one, you know you do. Yet, it is only the fantasy male geeks everywhere. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:22 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! That made me smile Robert. Thank you for that! Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! Thanks, Marlon. You have any picture of you in all that?! Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE? Just askin' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's 10* here right now. Gotta love it! First, LAYERS If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved shirt. Usually something like longjohns. I wear thick blue jeans. Next go the Carharts. Not a pair of knockoffs. I've got both, the Carharts are the only way to go. Much much warmer. If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over the top of all of that. I wear good, fleece lined snow boots. Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out. For gloves I have a couple of pairs. One factory one my own version. Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves. Cut the fingers out at the second knuckle. The factory ones fit a bit tighter and are easier to work with. On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts anyway. Use hand and foot warmers! I buy them by the case every year (they don't work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed). Loosely tape a warmer on each wrist. On the underneath where your arteries are at. The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use. That will do amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm! Honest. Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets. That's also near an artery and will help keep your feet warm. If there is room in your shoes, use foot warmers there too. Modern technology can be quite helpful. I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has been sitting for a while. Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of the time). For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on. It's got flaps that completely cover my ears. If it gets really nasty I'll slip a hand warmer or two in it as well. I'd love to find an even thicker version of it but haven't come up with one yet. I will also probably get a pull over ski mask one day. The kind you see crooks wear. As I've gotten older it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and windy. Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!! If it's not mission critical stay inside. Or at least keep your shifts outside short until things warm up. When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs. The cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much. The drills and cars don't like to run well etc. It's just much too hard on everything. Out here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they understand. I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow over etc.). I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily managed with cold water and slow movement Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday,
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
Out here our lineman keeps a rope ladder in his bucket in case that happens. Won't catch me climbing out of one. I'll freeze to death first! shudder marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! Praying for ya! I can identify as many here can and we feel your pain. Below freezing weather really sucks. I had several sessions like that last year. One time, I had to borrow a friends bucket and it was full of water and wouldnt drain. So I was in the ice cube filled bucket up to my knees for about 3 hours. Not sure how I made it. The next time, the bucket was drained OK but the hydralics had a leak and would let me down. Thats when the snow storm hit. After waiting for help about an hour, I decided to jump to the rusty silo ladder about 5 feet away. I vowed to prepare for this winter. Time will tell. Hang in there buddy! -RickG On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:49 AM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts and start to assemble the whole thing. It goes down again . Drive back up, restart. This time, nothing will coax it into running. Finally, I pull everything out, and take it home. Now the phone's going nuts. I just put 60 customers down. I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the hillside... and everything runs flawlessly. Just to be judicious, I grab a config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a few weeks old. I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run. So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up the mountain. Won't boot. Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep. Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road. Takes 20 min round trip) with all the parts. Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting. Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again. I see nothing. So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it in. Boots. Lights flash. Fire up the laptop and no. It's not working. log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED. Put old RB14 back in, change one radio. Boots up. Logs in. all radios detect, data
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Man, way, way, way off topic on this list but as risk of adding more to it, here goes... October 3, 2002. Chairman Henry Hyde was quoted on the record and live on C-Span as saying. There are things in the Constitution that have been overtaken by events, by time. Declaration of war is one of them.There are things no longer relevant to a modern society.Why declare war if you don't have to?.We are saying to the President, use your judgment.So, to demand that we declare war is to strengthen something to death. You have got a hammerlock on this situation, and it is not called for. Inappropriate, anachronistic, it isn't done anymore.. Right or wrong since it was about declaring war on Iraq, it speaks volumes of how bad the mentality is getting. I ask, what part of I, _, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same... .is no longer relevant? They have chipped away at it to where the Constitution is only lip service, regarded as something akin to The Force in Star Wars to be made fun of and anyone who mentions it in a serious way is considered a wacko extremist. They being the people and organizations who find the protections that we are given in the Constitution to be inconvenient to their agenda and They will do whatever and say whatever to discredit what is inconvenient until it becomes the norm and our basic rights and protections are tossed to the side like my daughter used to go through boyfriends. When we hear a major member of the House declare that the Constitution is no longer relevant and you see United States Border Patrol agents NOT on the border where they belong but stopping vehicles well within the borders for Inspection, again, There's you sign. That will be another 35 cents, please. Thanks. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 3:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance When the Constitution is called No longer relevant to a modern society on the floor of the House of Representatives and there is no uproar over it As I said before, I've stopped paying too much attention to the news. Did that really happen? If so, I believe the real problem is that there was no uproar from we the people over it. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance It's because it started out as a good idea but the ones with the cash and who are looking to protect their slice of our cash as well as enhance it, (Insurance companies), have been allowed to trade policy for dollars. It all comes down to one thing, cash. He who has the most cash wins. It's not supposed to be that way but unfortunately as long as the ones who are benefiting from all that cash are the ones who are sitting in both houses this is what we will have. No matter what your politics may be, dollars do not make good policy. We can all Vote the bums out but the reality is that we only get new bums. Until the system of cash for votes is wiped out it will only get worse and we are seeing it escalating more and more each year. Tend to the issue of WHY we are stuck with this power to the dollar and then we can work on getting it back to power to the people. When the Constitution is called No longer relevant to a modern society on the floor of the House of Representatives and there is no uproar over it, There's your sign! Had to throw my 35 cents in. (It's no longer 2 cents, had to raise the price due to the economy. A guy has to eat, ya know.) Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance If the current draft now says you can't be jailed for not paying this particular tax/fine then ok, but that's not the way it was written earlier. I wouldn't be surprised if this is flipped back...sooner or later. Regardless, the government is forcing you to buy something from them at a price they determine with services they see fit. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me... Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently have read more of it than you. Clearly not, or else you'd know that the fine actually is
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
Marlon! You got your got your hair cut! Looks good on ya! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 3:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! h http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SJ5S43VGz5Q/StJenrWlLxI/FzI/b4UybsR59aw/s4 00/blanket+coat+2.jpg http://www.gerbing.com/coreheat.net/Products/Products.html Let me know how any of that works! marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! You're welcome. I've already envisioned PoE powered socks and gloves as well. Just install a switch inside the lining of your coat and one cable controls all. Make it IP based and you can monitor and control the temps as Zones with the your iPhone or Blackberry. Feet Cold? We have an App for that! Sadly, you want one, you know you do. Yet, it is only the fantasy male geeks everywhere. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:22 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! That made me smile Robert. Thank you for that! Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! Thanks, Marlon. You have any picture of you in all that?! Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE? Just askin' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! It's 10* here right now. Gotta love it! First, LAYERS If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved shirt. Usually something like longjohns. I wear thick blue jeans. Next go the Carharts. Not a pair of knockoffs. I've got both, the Carharts are the only way to go. Much much warmer. If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over the top of all of that. I wear good, fleece lined snow boots. Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out. For gloves I have a couple of pairs. One factory one my own version. Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves. Cut the fingers out at the second knuckle. The factory ones fit a bit tighter and are easier to work with. On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts anyway. Use hand and foot warmers! I buy them by the case every year (they don't work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed). Loosely tape a warmer on each wrist. On the underneath where your arteries are at. The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use. That will do amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm! Honest. Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets. That's also near an artery and will help keep your feet warm. If there is room in your shoes, use foot warmers there too. Modern technology can be quite helpful. I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has been sitting for a while. Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of the time). For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on. It's got flaps that completely cover my ears. If it gets really nasty I'll slip a hand warmer or two in it as well. I'd love to find an even thicker version of it but haven't come up with one yet. I will also probably get a pull over ski mask one day. The kind you see crooks wear. As I've gotten older it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and windy. Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!! If it's not mission critical stay inside. Or at least keep your shifts outside short until things warm up. When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs. The cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much. The drills and cars don't like to run well etc. It's just much too hard on everything. Out here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they understand. I also tend to not work when it gets really windy
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: If it were me? Toss em and start over. Not worth the trouble. Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it. marlon He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to toss em. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
That's my thinking as well. What's the worst I could do? Flames could be involved but I don't foresee that in this case. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Parr Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors 2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: If it were me? Toss em and start over. Not worth the trouble. Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it. marlon He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to toss em. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
I read black stuff, not corrosion. If they are silver connectors, then it's silver oxide and NOT a problem. In the old days all, and now only the best equipment still use silver connectors. Just like an old dime will turn black once it has skin oils on it, so will a silver connector. Neither of them is hurt by the patina. Mike At 03:29 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: 2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: If it were me? Toss em and start over. Not worth the trouble. Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it. marlon He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to toss em. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
I never would have guessed silver though. Someone mentioned that earlier too. At first it looked like rubber tape residue but it had me scratching me head since boy never put any cables on them. Makes perfect sense though. They will probably be okay, I just didn't want to attack them with the steel wool or whatever and screw up what seem to be very nice sectors. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors I read black stuff, not corrosion. If they are silver connectors, then it's silver oxide and NOT a problem. In the old days all, and now only the best equipment still use silver connectors. Just like an old dime will turn black once it has skin oils on it, so will a silver connector. Neither of them is hurt by the patina. Mike At 03:29 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: 2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: If it were me? Toss em and start over. Not worth the trouble. Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it. marlon He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to toss em. --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
LL Bean. Mike wrote: Thinsulate is good and light. Redwing has some insulated lace up boots with Thinsulate. They have fiberglass shanks and fiberglass toes instead of steel -- supposed to be safer for electricians. I think the Wrangler jeans with Thinsulate in them are awesome. It's warmer than long johns and regular jeans. Wool socks, with a silk under sock is the answer for warm feet. Some people just use thin tight socks as the first layer, but the two layers is the answer. Thinsulate gloves are the best going. A pair of tight goatskin or deer skin gloves will give you some dexterity. Use a larger pair of gloves with Thinsulate in them over them when you don't need the dexterity. I don't mind the cold. Wind and wind blown snow are my bane. Mike At 01:07 AM 12/7/2009, you wrote: It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
Bob: The fingers are gold plated and won't corrode either. When you're cleaning them, and since they were outside unprotected, get your close up goggles on and use a toothpick to make sure there is nothing in the space between the fingers. I actually have some ancient silver N right angle adapters that are black, not silver. I use them on various radios in my shack. They work just fine. I do like to put just a little bit NOT MUCH NoAlOx or equivalent on the female threads when I put them back together. Silver connectors are more susceptible to mechanical loosening from thermal changes than the nickle silver ones. Get em tight! Mike At 03:55 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: I never would have guessed silver though. Someone mentioned that earlier too. At first it looked like rubber tape residue but it had me scratching me head since boy never put any cables on them. Makes perfect sense though. They will probably be okay, I just didn't want to attack them with the steel wool or whatever and screw up what seem to be very nice sectors. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors I read black stuff, not corrosion. If they are silver connectors, then it's silver oxide and NOT a problem. In the old days all, and now only the best equipment still use silver connectors. Just like an old dime will turn black once it has skin oils on it, so will a silver connector. Neither of them is hurt by the patina. Mike At 03:29 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: 2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: If it were me? Toss em and start over. Not worth the trouble. Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it. marlon He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to toss em. --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
I hope that's a woman cause I don't want no dude keeping me warm. Just me, you understand. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Curtis Maurand Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold! LL Bean. Mike wrote: Thinsulate is good and light. Redwing has some insulated lace up boots with Thinsulate. They have fiberglass shanks and fiberglass toes instead of steel -- supposed to be safer for electricians. I think the Wrangler jeans with Thinsulate in them are awesome. It's warmer than long johns and regular jeans. Wool socks, with a silk under sock is the answer for warm feet. Some people just use thin tight socks as the first layer, but the two layers is the answer. Thinsulate gloves are the best going. A pair of tight goatskin or deer skin gloves will give you some dexterity. Use a larger pair of gloves with Thinsulate in them over them when you don't need the dexterity. I don't mind the cold. Wind and wind blown snow are my bane. Mike At 01:07 AM 12/7/2009, you wrote: It's cold. I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my feet are frozen. Time for new boots and the rest of the winter gear.. Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT? I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC. Everything is pretty much worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. Ideas so that I don't freeze to death? And gloves! Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at the same time. So as usual Who loves what and who hates what? Thanks. Bob- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
Well boy, ya learned me something! I honestly never heard of NoAlOx before. Looked it up, looks good. I'll have to pick some up for other things as well, looks like. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors Bob: The fingers are gold plated and won't corrode either. When you're cleaning them, and since they were outside unprotected, get your close up goggles on and use a toothpick to make sure there is nothing in the space between the fingers. I actually have some ancient silver N right angle adapters that are black, not silver. I use them on various radios in my shack. They work just fine. I do like to put just a little bit NOT MUCH NoAlOx or equivalent on the female threads when I put them back together. Silver connectors are more susceptible to mechanical loosening from thermal changes than the nickle silver ones. Get em tight! Mike At 03:55 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: I never would have guessed silver though. Someone mentioned that earlier too. At first it looked like rubber tape residue but it had me scratching me head since boy never put any cables on them. Makes perfect sense though. They will probably be okay, I just didn't want to attack them with the steel wool or whatever and screw up what seem to be very nice sectors. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors I read black stuff, not corrosion. If they are silver connectors, then it's silver oxide and NOT a problem. In the old days all, and now only the best equipment still use silver connectors. Just like an old dime will turn black once it has skin oils on it, so will a silver connector. Neither of them is hurt by the patina. Mike At 03:29 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: 2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: If it were me? Toss em and start over. Not worth the trouble. Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it. marlon He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to toss em. --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
OxGard works too! They usually have that at Menards. Electrical supply house will have NoAlOx. At 04:10 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: Well boy, ya learned me something! I honestly never heard of NoAlOx before. Looked it up, looks good. I'll have to pick some up for other things as well, looks like. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors Bob: The fingers are gold plated and won't corrode either. When you're cleaning them, and since they were outside unprotected, get your close up goggles on and use a toothpick to make sure there is nothing in the space between the fingers. I actually have some ancient silver N right angle adapters that are black, not silver. I use them on various radios in my shack. They work just fine. I do like to put just a little bit NOT MUCH NoAlOx or equivalent on the female threads when I put them back together. Silver connectors are more susceptible to mechanical loosening from thermal changes than the nickle silver ones. Get em tight! Mike At 03:55 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: I never would have guessed silver though. Someone mentioned that earlier too. At first it looked like rubber tape residue but it had me scratching me head since boy never put any cables on them. Makes perfect sense though. They will probably be okay, I just didn't want to attack them with the steel wool or whatever and screw up what seem to be very nice sectors. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors I read black stuff, not corrosion. If they are silver connectors, then it's silver oxide and NOT a problem. In the old days all, and now only the best equipment still use silver connectors. Just like an old dime will turn black once it has skin oils on it, so will a silver connector. Neither of them is hurt by the patina. Mike At 03:29 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: 2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: If it were me? Toss em and start over. Not worth the trouble. Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it. marlon He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to toss em. --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] The long day...final insult
So, I get to the workshop this afternoon, and walk in.There's a cat on my chair.I have NO idea how he got in, other than he must have dashed through the door as I walked in or out. I specifically made sure he wasn't in the next to last time I walked in or out. And, of course, as soon as I kicked the heat on and it warmed up, the pungent aroma he'd messed under my rollaround desk chair... And I had rolled the chair through it to sit at my workstation. ( pounds head slowly against monitor. slowly, of course, I have a splitting headache from lack of sleep) -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:02 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! I've had a great experince over the past few years with StarOS/WRAP combos. They just work. With that said, I am slowly migrating to Mikrotik/Routerboards because I like the control they offer. So far, they just work as well. -RickG On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: SShhh, don't tell him that, hes a StarOS guy =) Along the same, my primary site went down last night, cycling every 30~45seconds. -15F reported at the site this morning. RB433 is spec'd for -4FW T F Time to replace it with a few NS's and a RB450/750 in better temp controlled case. To bad they do not make a RB790 with POE =) jp wrote: I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards. I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable and reliable manufacturer. You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers. On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote: It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get up, drive over to house, start the project. 30 min later, my phone beeps. Text message... Site's down.ARRRGGH. 25 minute drive to the site and I
Re: [WISPA] The long day...final insult
Get em a litter box, he'll keep mice away. At 04:23 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: So, I get to the workshop this afternoon, and walk in.There's a cat on my chair.I have NO idea how he got in, other than he must have dashed through the door as I walked in or out. I specifically made sure he wasn't in the next to last time I walked in or out. And, of course, as soon as I kicked the heat on and it warmed up, the pungent aroma he'd messed under my rollaround desk chair... And I had rolled the chair through it to sit at my workstation. ( pounds head slowly against monitor. slowly, of course, I have a splitting headache from lack of sleep) -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:02 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! I've had a great experince over the past few years with StarOS/WRAP combos. They just work. With that said, I am slowly migrating to Mikrotik/Routerboards because I like the control they offer. So far, they just work as well. -RickG On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: SShhh, don't tell him that, hes a StarOS guy =) Along the same, my primary site went down last night, cycling every 30~45seconds. -15F reported at the site this morning. RB433 is spec'd for -4FW T F Time to replace it with a few NS's and a RB450/750 in better temp controlled case. To bad they do not make a RB790 with POE =) jp wrote: I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards. I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable and reliable manufacturer. You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers. On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote: It's 2:30 AM... I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside. After all, weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind. In their head, maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 mph. There's no snow on the ground. I don't make a habit of staying up late, but last night, I was doing one of those let's just have some fun looking around sessions on EBAY. Next thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM. Without shutting anything down, I just crawled into bed. At 8:45 my cell phone rang... I didn't answer it, but I did get up. Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it. The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the ventilation fan running in the box. Thinking I had sucked in too much damp, I just shut it off and rebooted. The locked up system is a mini-itx board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios... Obviously, I was wrong. Something was wrong. It had run since Friday, but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours. It's died 2 other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem... I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in. Restarted and everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. And that's not good or right. I look in the van. Spare mini-ITX board, licensed. Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her. So, I go to do that and she's not home. That's odd. I could have sworn she said she'd be there at 2... I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow. So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish. When I wake up, it's after 5. Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh. So, I get
Re: [WISPA] The long day...final insult
2009/12/7 Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com: Sorry, Mike. I think he's mine. He got out yesterday, haven't seen him since. Pees everywhere, rubber tape used to help but not anymore. See if he answers to the name Jihad. If so I'll drop by and get him. I've been losing that cat a lot. Thought Jihad would be a cool name for a cat until I found myself outside yelling for the cat and it got me noticed. Lesson: Don't stand outside in a Jewish neighborhood yelling out your cats name over and over especially if the cats name is Jihad. I'm on a list now. I'm not sure what it means but I'm sure I'll find out. I had a cat who I named Mohammad, then I adopted another named Darwin. They never did get along, and Darwin ended up chasing Mohammad away. True story. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] The long day...final insult
And somehow very fitting. Very fitting, indeed. Hopefully you have no pictures of your cat, Mohammad. If so, my cat Jihad will be forced to pay you a visit. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Parr Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] The long day...final insult 2009/12/7 Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com: Sorry, Mike. I think he's mine. He got out yesterday, haven't seen him since. Pees everywhere, rubber tape used to help but not anymore. See if he answers to the name Jihad. If so I'll drop by and get him. I've been losing that cat a lot. Thought Jihad would be a cool name for a cat until I found myself outside yelling for the cat and it got me noticed. Lesson: Don't stand outside in a Jewish neighborhood yelling out your cats name over and over especially if the cats name is Jihad. I'm on a list now. I'm not sure what it means but I'm sure I'll find out. I had a cat who I named Mohammad, then I adopted another named Darwin. They never did get along, and Darwin ended up chasing Mohammad away. True story. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Insurance....
As business people, we should be looking at insurance for health like we do as insurance for everything else.What's it there for? Protect us from catastrophe, like falling through some guy's glass skylight, or accidently parking the bucket truck on top of his sprinker control box and it falls through the lid... Or, think of any other catastrophic accident, in terms of cost... I don't know about you, but in my family, we evaluate our spending on food, cell phones, and other stuff on a regular basis. We have an item that goes to pay doctor bills.I haven't had insurance in years, but we do have a hundreds of dollars a month budget item. (there's 7 in the family). Imagine if used the insurance on the work rig to pay for having the tires changed, oil changed, washed, seat tear fixed, tuneups, and even brake jobs.Not only would your car insurance be stupidly high, we'd never care what the places charged to do the fixing, since insurance pays. As business people, we use our analytical powers to fix stuff, save money, etc. Apply it to health insurance.You KNOW you're going to spend money on it. Budget for it. But use insurance only as catastrophic relief, and find doctors, clinics, pharmacies that give you the best deal for cash, and take advantage of it.Since WWII, the laws concerning taxes and wage controls provided high incentive for employers to pay for health insurance as a benefit to be competitive.Now, everyone expects employer to pay the bill and health care should be free or close to it. Since that means YOU consume, the insurance pays, the doctor charges... You can fully understand why prices spiral out of control - there is no market forces to control prices. Every single payer health system in the world controls costs by simply deciding who can and who cannot be treated.It lacks any market forces to make anyone or anything competitive.And we've almost done that here, by removing the consumer from the equation. Imagine what kind of revenues we could generate if the government promised everyone broadband... the consumer used, we provided, beaurocrats pay. Either prices would spiral upwards wildly, or we'd start capping customers and limiting use to control OUR costs. The free market really does work. We use it daily in our business... Now imagine if we used it for health care, too.We know how to do that, don't we? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Great post! clap - clap - clap Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Insurance As business people, we should be looking at insurance for health like we do as insurance for everything else.What's it there for? Protect us from catastrophe, like falling through some guy's glass skylight, or accidently parking the bucket truck on top of his sprinker control box and it falls through the lid... Or, think of any other catastrophic accident, in terms of cost... I don't know about you, but in my family, we evaluate our spending on food, cell phones, and other stuff on a regular basis. We have an item that goes to pay doctor bills.I haven't had insurance in years, but we do have a hundreds of dollars a month budget item. (there's 7 in the family). Imagine if used the insurance on the work rig to pay for having the tires changed, oil changed, washed, seat tear fixed, tuneups, and even brake jobs.Not only would your car insurance be stupidly high, we'd never care what the places charged to do the fixing, since insurance pays. As business people, we use our analytical powers to fix stuff, save money, etc. Apply it to health insurance.You KNOW you're going to spend money on it. Budget for it. But use insurance only as catastrophic relief, and find doctors, clinics, pharmacies that give you the best deal for cash, and take advantage of it.Since WWII, the laws concerning taxes and wage controls provided high incentive for employers to pay for health insurance as a benefit to be competitive.Now, everyone expects employer to pay the bill and health care should be free or close to it. Since that means YOU consume, the insurance pays, the doctor charges... You can fully understand why prices spiral out of control - there is no market forces to control prices. Every single payer health system in the world controls costs by simply deciding who can and who cannot be treated.It lacks any market forces to make anyone or anything competitive.And we've almost done that here, by removing the consumer from the equation. Imagine what kind of revenues we could generate if the government promised everyone broadband... the consumer used, we provided, beaurocrats pay. Either prices would spiral upwards wildly, or we'd start capping customers and limiting use to control OUR costs. The free market really does work. We use it daily in our business... Now imagine if we used it for health care, too.We know how to do that, don't we? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 16:42, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: The free market really does work. We use it daily in our business... Now imagine if we used it for health care, too.We know how to do that, don't we? There is a fundamental difference between broadband Internet and basic medical care, and the fact that tens of millions of Americans have better access to the former than the latter shows that in this instance the free market has failed miserably. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
