subject:"\[WISPA\] VoIP"

So a question for the masses.  We are selling VoIP services and the number
of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect.
Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers,
and CISCO/Linksys ATAs.  Primarily Vitelity accounts.  We get complaints of
choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using
successfully.  I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out
where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups
that would be great.

 

I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get
our Support Calls down.

 

Matt - NC Wireless

 

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

2014-07-31 Thread Josh Reynolds


Is the VOIP traffic encapsulated in any way, such as EoIP, PPPoE, etc?

If so, AirMax will not be able to prioritize it correctly, assuming the 
correct DSCP value is assigned to the traffic to begin with.


Josh Reynolds, CIO
SPITwSPOTS
www.spitwspots.com

On 07/31/2014 11:56 AM, Matt Brendle wrote:


So a question for the masses.  We are selling VoIP services and the 
number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I 
would expect.  Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik 
infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs.  Primarily Vitelity 
accounts.  We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I 
wanted to see what others are using successfully.  I am currently 
making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if 
anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great.


I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work 
and get our Support Calls down.


Matt – NC Wireless



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Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

Nope.  Public IP on the CPE.  CPE is set to router mode and then we are
doing DMZ to the ATA.  Customer router sits behind ATA so local QOS is being
handled by the ATA.

 

I am doing traffic shaping in the CPE, but with VoIP customers we disable
bursting.  Other than that I don't do any prioritizing.

 

-Matt

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:00 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

 

Is the VOIP traffic encapsulated in any way, such as EoIP, PPPoE, etc?

If so, AirMax will not be able to prioritize it correctly, assuming the
correct DSCP value is assigned to the traffic to begin with.

Josh Reynolds, CIO
SPITwSPOTS
www.spitwspots.com http://www.spitwspots.com 

On 07/31/2014 11:56 AM, Matt Brendle wrote:

So a question for the masses.  We are selling VoIP services and the number
of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect.
Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers,
and CISCO/Linksys ATAs.  Primarily Vitelity accounts.  We get complaints of
choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using
successfully.  I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out
where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups
that would be great.

 

I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get
our Support Calls down.

 

Matt - NC Wireless

 






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Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

2014-07-31 Thread Nick Olsen

You'll want to make sure you're tagging the Voip traffic with a DSCP tag. So 
the UBNT gear will give it a dedicated timeslot. This should improve the call 
quality if your issue is related to the RF side.

 If your issue is your connection to Vitelity, Or something else in the path, 
It won't make much of a difference.

 Off question.. Does anyone know if MT Radios do any type of automatic 
classification like airmax does as part of Nstream? Can this be changed with 
DSCP tags? Or would you have to just mark the DSCP tags and queue it yourself 
on the link?

 Nick Olsen
Network Operations  (855) FLSPEED  x106




 From: Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:10 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

Nope.  Public IP on the CPE.  CPE is set to router mode and then we are doing 
DMZ to the ATA.  Customer router sits behind ATA so local QOS is being handled 
by the ATA.



I am doing traffic shaping in the CPE, but with VoIP customers we disable 
bursting.  Other than that I don't do any prioritizing.



-Matt



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:00 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?



Is the VOIP traffic encapsulated in any way, such as EoIP, PPPoE, etc?

If so, AirMax will not be able to prioritize it correctly, assuming the correct 
DSCP value is assigned to the traffic to begin with.

Josh Reynolds, CIO
SPITwSPOTS
www.spitwspots.com

On 07/31/2014 11:56 AM, Matt Brendle wrote:

So a question for the masses.  We are selling VoIP services and the number of 
Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect.  Our 
basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and 
CISCO/Linksys ATAs.  Primarily Vitelity accounts.  We get complaints of 
choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using 
successfully.  I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where 
the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would 
be great.



I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get 
our Support Calls down.



Matt - NC Wireless





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Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

2014-07-31 Thread lar

On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:56:33 -0400
  Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote:
 So a question for the masses.  We are selling VoIP services and the number
 of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect.
 Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers,
 and CISCO/Linksys ATAs.  Primarily Vitelity accounts.  We get complaints of
 choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using
 successfully.  I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out
 where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups
 that would be great.
 

We've been doing VOIP across dsl, dedicated and wireless circuits for years.
It's a fairly simple engineering task that is very detail oriented. Jitter is
the killer. I have and am using Cisco, Force 10, Mikrotik, UBNT, Radwin
and MRV equipment. They all work but you have to look for any possible spot
where there can be congestion and plan a way through. Mikrotik's are 
particularity
difficult because they don't re-order packets. You make room by throwing 
something
else away. Like everything Mikrotik it takes some middle to both edges thinking.

Regularly sniff your voice traffic and be sure that the dscp/tos codes are 
there. Some
switches/ providers will remove them. You can build an entire network with a
pristine voice channel in it to find your voip running best effort. I have had
that happen more than once.

Also remember adding bandwidth on one link can create two or more new 
congestion points
someplace else. details, details, details but once you get it right it's 
something to behold.

 
 
 I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get
 our Support Calls down.
 
 
 
 Matt - NC Wireless
 
 
 

Larry Ash
Network Administrator
Mountain West Telephone
123 W 1st St.
Casper, WY 82601
Office 307 233-8387
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

Larry,

Thanks for the feedback.  I have a mix of ATAs deployed, but I am going to
make sure they all have the right DSCP flags set for Airmax to prioritize.
I will also take your advice on sniffing and include in my testing.  That
way I can make sure the flag isn't getting stripped off somewhere on my
network.

Anybody else with suggestions/info?  I welcome all input no matter how minor
or critical it may seem.

-Matt

-Original Message-
From: l...@mwtcorp.net [mailto:l...@mwtcorp.net] 
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:59 PM
To: WISPA General List; Matt Brendle
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:56:33 -0400
  Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote:
 So a question for the masses.  We are selling VoIP services and the 
 number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would
expect.
 Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure 
 routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs.  Primarily Vitelity accounts.  We get 
 complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what 
 others are using successfully.  I am currently making a test procedure 
 to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success 
 stories and example setups that would be great.
 

We've been doing VOIP across dsl, dedicated and wireless circuits for years.
It's a fairly simple engineering task that is very detail oriented. Jitter
is the killer. I have and am using Cisco, Force 10, Mikrotik, UBNT, Radwin
and MRV equipment. They all work but you have to look for any possible spot
where there can be congestion and plan a way through. Mikrotik's are
particularity difficult because they don't re-order packets. You make room
by throwing something else away. Like everything Mikrotik it takes some
middle to both edges thinking.

Regularly sniff your voice traffic and be sure that the dscp/tos codes are
there. Some switches/ providers will remove them. You can build an entire
network with a pristine voice channel in it to find your voip running best
effort. I have had that happen more than once.

Also remember adding bandwidth on one link can create two or more new
congestion points someplace else. details, details, details but once you get
it right it's something to behold.

 
 
 I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work 
 and get our Support Calls down.
 
 
 
 Matt - NC Wireless
 
 
 

Larry Ash
Network Administrator
Mountain West Telephone
123 W 1st St.
Casper, WY 82601
Office 307 233-8387

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

2014-07-31 Thread Chris Ruschmann

I don't have anything to offer, but we are planning a limited rollout of
VOIP and would be interested in feedback as well.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Brendle
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:11 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

Larry,

Thanks for the feedback.  I have a mix of ATAs deployed, but I am going to
make sure they all have the right DSCP flags set for Airmax to prioritize.
I will also take your advice on sniffing and include in my testing.  That
way I can make sure the flag isn't getting stripped off somewhere on my
network.

Anybody else with suggestions/info?  I welcome all input no matter how
minor or critical it may seem.

-Matt

-Original Message-
From: l...@mwtcorp.net [mailto:l...@mwtcorp.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:59 PM
To: WISPA General List; Matt Brendle
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:56:33 -0400
  Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote:
 So a question for the masses.  We are selling VoIP services and the
 number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I
 would
expect.
 Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure
 routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs.  Primarily Vitelity accounts.  We get
 complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what
 others are using successfully.  I am currently making a test procedure
 to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success
 stories and example setups that would be great.

We've been doing VOIP across dsl, dedicated and wireless circuits for
years.
It's a fairly simple engineering task that is very detail oriented. Jitter
is the killer. I have and am using Cisco, Force 10, Mikrotik, UBNT, Radwin
and MRV equipment. They all work but you have to look for any possible
spot where there can be congestion and plan a way through. Mikrotik's are
particularity difficult because they don't re-order packets. You make room
by throwing something else away. Like everything Mikrotik it takes some
middle to both edges thinking.

Regularly sniff your voice traffic and be sure that the dscp/tos codes are
there. Some switches/ providers will remove them. You can build an entire
network with a pristine voice channel in it to find your voip running best
effort. I have had that happen more than once.

Also remember adding bandwidth on one link can create two or more new
congestion points someplace else. details, details, details but once you
get it right it's something to behold.

 I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work
 and get our Support Calls down.

 Matt - NC Wireless

Larry Ash
Network Administrator
Mountain West Telephone
123 W 1st St.
Casper, WY 82601
Office 307 233-8387

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

2014-07-31 Thread Rubens Kuhl

On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Matt Brendle 
mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote:

 So a question for the masses.  We are selling VoIP services and the number
 of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would
 expect.  Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure
 routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs.  Primarily Vitelity accounts.  We get
 complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others
 are using successfully.  I am currently making a test procedure to try to
 find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example
 setups that would be great.



 I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and
 get our Support Calls down.




Besides the air side of the question, how is the network side ? How good is
the connection from your network to the Vitelity SIP and media servers ?
Although I would guess your issue is on the air side, good diagnosing
starts by not assuming anything...

Rubens
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

Correct.  I am not planning on assuming anything.  We have assumed the network 
from our NOC to the SIP servers was good in the past.  That is going to be step 
1 in my process.  I will verify good quality from there and work my way back to 
the CPE.

 

-Matt

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Rubens Kuhl
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 6:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Matt Brendle 
mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com mailto:mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com  
wrote:

So a question for the masses.  We are selling VoIP services and the number of 
Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect.  Our 
basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and 
CISCO/Linksys ATAs.  Primarily Vitelity accounts.  We get complaints of 
choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using 
successfully.  I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where 
the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would 
be great.

 

I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get 
our Support Calls down.

 

 

Besides the air side of the question, how is the network side ? How good is the 
connection from your network to the Vitelity SIP and media servers ? 

Although I would guess your issue is on the air side, good diagnosing starts by 
not assuming anything... 

 

Rubens

 

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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Security Consultant

2014-04-18 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

Hi Chris, 

Not withstanding security on Freepbx, you know there is no way for freepbx to 
do anything if one of the endpoints are compromised, or a valid user /ext 
password is jacked. 

We use an external system (a2billing) as a means of managing and controlling 
such compromises... 

If this is of interest, feel free to give me shout off-line, unless there are 
others who would like to hear more about this on the list. 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet  Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -

 From: Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 7:28:28 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] VOIP Security Consultant

 I need help troubleshooting some fraudulent activity on our FreePBX system
 and implementing safeguards to prevent it happening again. Anyone who is
 knowledgeable with this please contact me offlist.

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[WISPA] VOIP Security Consultant

2014-04-17 Thread Chris Fabien

I need help troubleshooting some fraudulent activity on our FreePBX system
and implementing safeguards to prevent it happening again. Anyone who is
knowledgeable with this please contact me offlist.
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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Security Consultant

2014-04-17 Thread Cameron Crum

You'll probably get a visit from the fbi soon.  We had a server penitrated
for a couple hours one day a few years back. I pulled the hd and rebuilt
the box on a new disk and tightened up my firewall. A year later I got a
visit from two agents asking about it with a warrant. I told them what
happened and gave them the hd. Luckily I just left it sitting on top of the
box all that time. Never heard anything else.

Cameron
On Apr 17, 2014 6:28 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.com wrote:

 I need help troubleshooting some fraudulent activity on our FreePBX system
 and implementing safeguards to prevent it happening again. Anyone who is
 knowledgeable with this please contact me offlist.



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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Security Consultant

2014-04-17 Thread Chris Fabien

This was someone relaying international calls through somehow. I don't
think the server itself was compromised. We caught very quickly but need to
figure out where the security flaw is.


On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Cameron Crum cc...@wispmon.com wrote:

 You'll probably get a visit from the fbi soon.  We had a server penitrated
 for a couple hours one day a few years back. I pulled the hd and rebuilt
 the box on a new disk and tightened up my firewall. A year later I got a
 visit from two agents asking about it with a warrant. I told them what
 happened and gave them the hd. Luckily I just left it sitting on top of the
 box all that time. Never heard anything else.

 Cameron
 On Apr 17, 2014 6:28 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.com wrote:

 I need help troubleshooting some fraudulent activity on our FreePBX
 system and implementing safeguards to prevent it happening again. Anyone
 who is knowledgeable with this please contact me offlist.



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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Security Consultant

2014-04-17 Thread Chris Stradtman

Chris,

I'm on an Asterisk mailing list where a lot of folks do this for a living.
 Would you like me to forward your request onto that list??

Chris Stradtman


On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.com wrote:

 This was someone relaying international calls through somehow. I don't
 think the server itself was compromised. We caught very quickly but need to
 figure out where the security flaw is.


 On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Cameron Crum cc...@wispmon.com wrote:

 You'll probably get a visit from the fbi soon.  We had a server
 penitrated for a couple hours one day a few years back. I pulled the hd and
 rebuilt the box on a new disk and tightened up my firewall. A year later I
 got a visit from two agents asking about it with a warrant. I told them
 what happened and gave them the hd. Luckily I just left it sitting on top
 of the box all that time. Never heard anything else.

 Cameron
 On Apr 17, 2014 6:28 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.com wrote:

  I need help troubleshooting some fraudulent activity on our FreePBX
 system and implementing safeguards to prevent it happening again. Anyone
 who is knowledgeable with this please contact me offlist.



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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Security Consultant

2014-04-17 Thread Chris Fabien

That would be fine, thank you


On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Chris Stradtman 
cstradt...@greenpointcommunications.com wrote:

 Chris,

 I'm on an Asterisk mailing list where a lot of folks do this for a living.
  Would you like me to forward your request onto that list??

 Chris Stradtman


 On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.com wrote:

 This was someone relaying international calls through somehow. I don't
 think the server itself was compromised. We caught very quickly but need to
 figure out where the security flaw is.


 On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Cameron Crum cc...@wispmon.com wrote:

 You'll probably get a visit from the fbi soon.  We had a server
 penitrated for a couple hours one day a few years back. I pulled the hd and
 rebuilt the box on a new disk and tightened up my firewall. A year later I
 got a visit from two agents asking about it with a warrant. I told them
 what happened and gave them the hd. Luckily I just left it sitting on top
 of the box all that time. Never heard anything else.

 Cameron
 On Apr 17, 2014 6:28 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.com wrote:

  I need help troubleshooting some fraudulent activity on our FreePBX
 system and implementing safeguards to prevent it happening again. Anyone
 who is knowledgeable with this please contact me offlist.



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[WISPA] VoIP reselling.

2014-03-26 Thread Roger Howard

So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with
freeswitch, and it works great.

I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only
thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to
collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax.
etc.

I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity
booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911
is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better
pricing and charge what I like to the customers.

Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't
sound right, surely it can't be that easy?

Thanks,
Roger
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.

2014-03-26 Thread Randy Cosby

Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing 
and tax filing in your behalf.


If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the 
difference between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate?


On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote:
So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with 
freeswitch, and it works great.


I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the 
only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought 
I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. 
Maybe sales tax. etc.


I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity 
booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the 
e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get 
better pricing and charge what I like to the customers.


Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something 
doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy?


Thanks,
Roger


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InfoWest, Inc
435-674-0165 x 2010
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.

2014-03-26 Thread Chris Fabien

This can vary by locality too. We offer voip and collect/pay USF, sales
tax, state 911, and a different county 911 fee for each county we serve.


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote:

  Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing
 and tax filing in your behalf.

 If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the difference
 between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate?

 On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote:

 So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with
 freeswitch, and it works great.

 I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only
 thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to
 collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax.
 etc.

 I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity
 booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911
 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better
 pricing and charge what I like to the customers.

 Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't
 sound right, surely it can't be that easy?

 Thanks,
 Roger


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.

2014-03-26 Thread Fred Goldstein


On 3/26/2014 12:53 PM, Randy Cosby wrote:
Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing 
and tax filing in your behalf.


If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the 
difference between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate?


USF rules are pretty strict.  If a USF-subject class of carrier has 
interstate telecommunications revenues (not Internet per se) that would 
subject it to USF payments of $10k/year, then it is de minimis and 
does not pay.  BUT then its suppliers treat it as retail and they pay on 
the services supplied to the de minimis carrier.  Once the carrier 
crosses out of de minimis, it suppliers must verify that it is paying 
USF, and then should not charge it USF on their wholesale sales.  So 
it's paid once, only once, by the last non-de mimimis carrier en route 
to the retail customer. (Disclaimer: IANAL and that's just my 
understanding.)


E911 is a state requirement.  Interconnected VoIP services have to do 
it, but the state sets the price.




On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote:
So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with 
freeswitch, and it works great.


I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the 
only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought 
I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. 
Maybe sales tax. etc.


I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity 
booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the 
e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get 
better pricing and charge what I like to the customers.


Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something 
doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy?


Thanks,
Roger


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.

2014-03-26 Thread Paolo Di Francesco

Roger

I have experience with VoIP but no experience with US VoIP rules. 
Anyway, the rule is always the same: who owns the customers? If you are 
a RESELLER (how powerful are words!) then you resell the service, i.e. 
it sounds like you are not selling the service but re-selling, i.e. you 
are just the guy in the middle between the service provider (them) and 
the customer.

So, RE-selling does not sound like what you want to do, i.e. the 
customer sign a contract with you, whatever is your provider if you are 
connected to them or to others. So I would say to the salesman if he 
is so sure that the contract that you are going to sign makes YOU a 
service provider and not just another of their zombie-resellers...

Personally we want to be the operator who will sell the service and not 
the reseller who will just get revenues from the contracts. That is 
RESELLING somebody else (not you) providing the service, and you 
finding customers for them.

Regards


 So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with 
 freeswitch, and it works great.

 I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the 
 only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought 
 I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. 
 Maybe sales tax. etc.

 I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity 
 booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the 
 e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get 
 better pricing and charge what I like to the customers.

 Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something 
 doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy?

 Thanks,
 Roger


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.

2014-03-26 Thread Jon Auer

This is a matter where you really need a telecom lawyer with knowledge of
your state.

What we found is you really need to avoid hitting that interconnected VoIP
requirement. As for how you do that, check with your lawyers.
Once we crossed that it's been a chain of paperwork that seems to never
end. Going beyond just paying USF (and it sucks when your bookkeeper
forgets to account for interest and your licensed backhaul applications are
held up for pennies) you have recordkeeping requirements, compliance
requirements for customer information, and now some kind procedure for
accessibility by persons with disabilities.
That's just the federal level. Once your state public service people see
your FCC 499 (from USF) you might be hearing from them about more paperwork.


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Roger Howard g5inter...@gmail.com wrote:

 So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with
 freeswitch, and it works great.

 I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only
 thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to
 collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax.
 etc.

 I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity
 booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911
 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better
 pricing and charge what I like to the customers.

 Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't
 sound right, surely it can't be that easy?

 Thanks,
 Roger

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.

2014-03-26 Thread Roger Howard

So if I'm de minimis, do I have to register anything with the FCC? or just
ignore it and let Vitelity pay until I get big?


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote:

  On 3/26/2014 12:53 PM, Randy Cosby wrote:

 Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing and
 tax filing in your behalf.

 If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the difference
 between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate?


 USF rules are pretty strict.  If a USF-subject class of carrier has
 interstate telecommunications revenues (not Internet per se) that would
 subject it to USF payments of $10k/year, then it is de minimis and does
 not pay.  BUT then its suppliers treat it as retail and they pay on the
 services supplied to the de minimis carrier.  Once the carrier crosses out
 of de minimis, it suppliers must verify that it is paying USF, and then
 should not charge it USF on their wholesale sales.  So it's paid once, only
 once, by the last non-de mimimis carrier en route to the retail customer.
 (Disclaimer: IANAL and that's just my understanding.)

 E911 is a state requirement.  Interconnected VoIP services have to do it,
 but the state sets the price.



 On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote:

 So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with
 freeswitch, and it works great.

 I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only
 thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to
 collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax.
 etc.

 I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity
 booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911
 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better
 pricing and charge what I like to the customers.

 Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't
 sound right, surely it can't be that easy?

 Thanks,
 Roger


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 InfoWest, Inc435-674-0165 x 2010
 ---
 This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc
 and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
 contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.

 Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is
 prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
 contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy
 the original message, all attachments and copies.



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Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.

2014-03-26 Thread Fred Goldstein


On 3/26/2014 1:44 PM, Roger Howard wrote:
So if I'm de minimis, do I have to register anything with the FCC? or 
just ignore it and let Vitelity pay until I get big?




If you're de minimis -- and just reselling might be an out, if the 
underlying carrier owns the customers, pays USF, and essentially gives 
you a commission, but I'm really not sure about that -- then you still 
have to file Form 499-A (annual) and give the numbers. If you're above 
the limit, then you file Form 499-Q (quarterly) and give the numbers and 
remit the money.


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Fred Goldstein 
fgoldst...@ionary.com mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:


On 3/26/2014 12:53 PM, Randy Cosby wrote:

Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the
billing and tax filing in your behalf.

If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the
difference between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked
up rate?


USF rules are pretty strict.  If a USF-subject class of carrier
has interstate telecommunications revenues (not Internet per se)
that would subject it to USF payments of $10k/year, then it is
de minimis and does not pay. BUT then its suppliers treat it as
retail and they pay on the services supplied to the de minimis
carrier.  Once the carrier crosses out of de minimis, it suppliers
must verify that it is paying USF, and then should not charge it
USF on their wholesale sales.  So it's paid once, only once, by
the last non-de mimimis carrier en route to the retail customer.
(Disclaimer: IANAL and that's just my understanding.)

E911 is a state requirement.  Interconnected VoIP services have to
do it, but the state sets the price.




On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote:

So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with
freeswitch, and it works great.

I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my
customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal
requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with
the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc.

I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the
Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we
don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign
up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to
the customers.

Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman.
Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy?

Thanks,
Roger


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contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.

2014-03-26 Thread lar

On Wed, 26 Mar 2014 12:44:57 -0500
  Roger Howard g5inter...@gmail.com wrote:
 So if I'm de minimis, do I have to register anything with the FCC? or just
 ignore it and let Vitelity pay until I get big?

Get a telcom lawyer. This is a minefield and can blow up in your face if you
do it wrong. There are several groups that do just this and they are not that
expensive. If I remember correctly there are a couple on this list.

We provide wholesale voip to a couple of WISP's. We own the customer, we 
handle
the e911 and USF and we bill though the WISP in the customer's name and the
agent doesn't have access to the CPNI data. It's all running through our 
switch and
it's still a minefield. We have had to consult the lawyers multiple times to 
be sure
to keep us and the WISP out of hot water.

So, the salesman could be right or he might not know and doesn't care. Don't 
trust
what he say's or anybody else for that matter. Get you own lawyer that knows 
both Federal
and your State requirements. The fines for mistakes are designed to get the 
attention of
multi-national companies. They could easily kill one of us.


 
 
 On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Fred Goldstein 
fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote:
 
  On 3/26/2014 12:53 PM, Randy Cosby wrote:

 Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing and
 tax filing in your behalf.

 If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the difference
 between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate?


 USF rules are pretty strict.  If a USF-subject class of carrier has
 interstate telecommunications revenues (not Internet per se) that would
 subject it to USF payments of $10k/year, then it is de minimis and does
 not pay.  BUT then its suppliers treat it as retail and they pay on the
 services supplied to the de minimis carrier.  Once the carrier crosses out
 of de minimis, it suppliers must verify that it is paying USF, and then
 should not charge it USF on their wholesale sales.  So it's paid once, only
 once, by the last non-de mimimis carrier en route to the retail customer.
 (Disclaimer: IANAL and that's just my understanding.)

 E911 is a state requirement.  Interconnected VoIP services have to do it,
 but the state sets the price.



 On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote:

 So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with
 freeswitch, and it works great.

 I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only
 thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to
 collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax.
 etc.

 I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity
 booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911
 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better
 pricing and charge what I like to the customers.

 Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't
 sound right, surely it can't be that easy?

 Thanks,
 Roger


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 ---
 This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc
 and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
 contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.

 Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is
 prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
 contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy
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123 W 1st St.
Casper, WY 82601
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.

2014-03-26 Thread Mike Hammett

Only the person sending the bill to the end user can do all of that. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: Roger Howard g5inter...@gmail.com 
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 11:51:47 AM 
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP reselling. 


So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, 
and it works great. 

I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only 
thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to 
collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. 

I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He 
told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, 
all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what 
I like to the customers. 

Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't 
sound right, surely it can't be that easy? 

Thanks, 
Roger 

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-30 Thread Randy Cosby

There is another issue I've found when dealing with the taxes and fees
that I think gets overlooked. If you are charging your federal portion
(USF) at 64.9% safe harbor for interstate, I have been told that the
intrastate portion (state, county, regional) taxes should be charged on
on the intrastate portion of revvenue- 35.1%. Talk to a competent
telecom taxing consultant / lawyer for advice on that.

I have to agree that Utah is extra special in the way they have us file
and charge the telecom taxes, and if done correctly there can be
different rates in different municipalities. The tax follows the
customer location, not your office location.

If you think that is fun, wait until you file and have to not only track
each of those municipalities by state-assigned municipality id code, but
ALSO by your outlet code that is assigned separately for each
municipality to each tax paying entity. TC-62M worksheet A. Oh, and the
handy excel spreadsheet the state gives you to file this mess is broken
and has been for at least 2 quarters. Unless you do it by hand, the
online form is the only way I've seen to get them all the information
they require.

Good luck!

On 2013-07-28 16:03, Carlos Alcantar wrote:

I would highly suggest you go talk to a telecom tax lawyer. Taxes on voice
are all over the place and in most cases it's up into interpretation, and
this is where things can go really bad if you think it's one way and they
think it's the other. Just my 2 cents.

Carlos Alcantar
Race Communications / Race Team Member
1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / http://www.race.com

From: Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:20 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main thing
that has me confused is the Universal Service Fund. It seems that my state
(Utah) has a USF of 0.45%
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf
[2]

Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%?? That is huge!
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support
[3]

Then there is sales and use tax of

STATE SALES USE - 4.7% MUNICIPALITY SALES USE - varies - see
http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf [4]

Then we have E911:

E911 STATE - .08

E911 COUNTY - .61
POISON CONTROL - .07
--- TOTAL FOR E911 - .76

Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the TELECOMMUNICATIONS RELAY
FUND - .06
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf [5]

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[1] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
[2]
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf
[3]
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support
[4] http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf
[5] http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-29 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

99% of customers are business, we are providing hosted pbx, Sip Trunk w/ATA or 
SIP Trunk w/PRI hand off. 
On the average they are running between $25 to $40 per line (per say). 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet  Telecom 
- Original Message -

From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 6:59:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees,  Insanity 



How much are you charging for it? 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On Jul 28, 2013 6:45 PM, Faisal Imtiaz  fai...@snappytelecom.net  wrote: 



hehe you can dip your toes in the water... it is warm. 

When done right, voip can easily have 50% to 80% margin. 

paying these fees and taxes are just tiny nuisance. 


:) 


Faisal Imtiaz 



From: Matt Hoppes  mhop...@indigowireless.com  
To: WISPA General List  wireless@wispa.org  
Cc: WISPA General List  wireless@wispa.org  
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 3:51:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees,  Insanity 

This is one reason I won't touch VoIP. 

On Jul 28, 2013, at 0:20, Jeremy  jeremysmi...@gmail.com  wrote: 


blockquote

I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main thing that 
has me confused is the Universal Service Fund. It seems that my state (Utah) 
has a USF of 0.45% 
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf
 

Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%?? That is huge! 
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support
 

Then there is sales and use tax of 
State Sales  Use - 4.7% 
Municipality Sales  Use - varies - see 
http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf 

Then we have E911: 

E911 State - .08 
E911 County - .61 
Poison Control - .07 
--- 
Total for E911 - .76 

Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the Telecommunications Relay 
Fund - .06 
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf 




blockquote

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-29 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

We have some Hosted Pbx Customers with very low usage, which work out to be in 
the high margin range. 
Professional Offices (Lawyers, Engineers, etc). 

But even then, when you have an properly designed in house system, and one is 
buying origination / termination properly, even the heavy users should yield a 
decent 40%-60% margin. (multi-line customers, hosted pbx customers etc..) 

Profit margins become rather thin when you start going through middle folks and 
or if you are having to buy the origination / termination from the ILEC via 
their retail side. 

Just for kicks, I am going to give CTI a plug, ( I am not endorsing their 
service, just using it as an example), but they offer $9/line service Suited 
for Resi and Small Business selling that for $25 to $35 before taxes would 
also yield a nice margin. 

Regards 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet  Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -

From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 7:39:02 PM 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees,  Insanity 



I meant those getting 80% profit. 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On Jul 28, 2013 7:17 PM, Jeremy  jeremysmi...@gmail.com  wrote: 



(plus taxes and fees) 


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Jeremy  jeremysmi...@gmail.com  wrote: 

blockquote

Josh - $21.95 residential and $29.95 business. 


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Fred Goldstein  fgoldst...@ionary.com  
wrote: 

blockquote

On 7/28/2013 2:20 PM, Jeremy wrote: 

blockquote

So while I am de minimus should I not be charging a USF fee? You stated that I 
cannot charge more than I pass along but if I pass along nothing until I am at 
the 10K mark then am I not supposed to bill it until that point? 




Carlos has good advice -- consult a lawyer. (I'm not a lawyer but I play an 
engineer on TV.) I just checked with one who could not render actual advice. 
Rather, he explained, This is one of the mysteries of USF. 

The FCC forgot about this case when they did the rules. So the usual practice 
seems to be to collect the fees. You might after all be passing them along to 
your wholesale provider, who is charging USF to you. But if you do go over the 
$10k limit, then you could owe retroactively, and in that case you want the 
money in the bank! So unless they've clarified this in the instructions on the 
Form 499s (be warned; they do that sometimes, and you don't know the rule until 
you read the new fine print), you can pass along the fee you would be 
collecting under safe harbor, and apply it to the USF charges you're being hit 
with. 

I don't think these crazy fees are a reason to avoid voice services, but they 
are a pain to administer. The FCC is terrible about writing clear rules. 



blockquote


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Fred Goldstein  fgoldst...@ionary.com  
wrote: 

blockquote

On 7/28/2013 12:46 AM, Jeremy wrote: 

blockquote

From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever you want directly from 
your customers but it may be considered as income and taxed as such. So you 
can't really pass it on as a direct fee and bypass your income tax liability 
for it. 


/blockquote

No. Federal billing rules say that you cannot collect more on your retail bill 
for FUSF than you pass along. No markups allowed. Most of the other charges can 
also be passed along one for one, but state rules could vary. 

But the rate is not exactly what you think. The Federal USF rate is calculated 
as a percentage, changed quarterly (it has gone over 17%), of your interstate 
telecommunications service billing. If you are providing local telephone 
service, that line item is not subject to USF as it is intrastate, not 
intersate. Internet access is not subject to USF as it is information service, 
not telecommunications service. The tax was meant to apply to long distance 
calls, which were a lot of money back in the day. 

If you are (as is the norm nowadays) providing a service that does not charge 
explicitly for interstate long distance, then you have two options. There is a 
safe harbor of 64.9%, wherein that percentage of the total phone package is 
deemed interstate. So if you sold it for $10/month, the tax would be applied to 
$6.49 of it. This number was computed back when VoIP services were primarily 
used as cheap dial-around long distance, not as primary lines, so the PIU 
(percentage interstate use -- this number comes up a LOT in telecom billing) 
was high. 

You can also compute what percentage of your calls are actually interstate, and 
pay USF on that percentage of the bill. This involves filling out the Form 
499-Q's correctly, but it is the norm nowadays. 

Bear in mind that there is a de minimis rule. If you would owe less than 
$10k/year, then you only

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-29 Thread Mike Hammett

A lawyer once told me that you aren't required to file with USAC for under 
$10k, but there is nothing preventing you. Don't mess around with the who does 
USF when dance, just do it from the beginning yourself. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com 
To: wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 6:06:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees,  Insanity 


On 7/28/2013 2:20 PM, Jeremy wrote: 



So while I am de minimus should I not be charging a USF fee? You stated that I 
cannot charge more than I pass along but if I pass along nothing until I am at 
the 10K mark then am I not supposed to bill it until that point? 





Carlos has good advice -- consult a lawyer. (I'm not a lawyer but I play an 
engineer on TV.) I just checked with one who could not render actual advice. 
Rather, he explained, This is one of the mysteries of USF. 

The FCC forgot about this case when they did the rules. So the usual practice 
seems to be to collect the fees. You might after all be passing them along to 
your wholesale provider, who is charging USF to you. But if you do go over the 
$10k limit, then you could owe retroactively, and in that case you want the 
money in the bank! So unless they've clarified this in the instructions on the 
Form 499s (be warned; they do that sometimes, and you don't know the rule until 
you read the new fine print), you can pass along the fee you would be 
collecting under safe harbor, and apply it to the USF charges you're being hit 
with. 

I don't think these crazy fees are a reason to avoid voice services, but they 
are a pain to administer. The FCC is terrible about writing clear rules. 


blockquote



On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Fred Goldstein  fgoldst...@ionary.com  
wrote: 

blockquote



On 7/28/2013 12:46 AM, Jeremy wrote: 

blockquote

From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever you want directly from 
your customers but it may be considered as income and taxed as such. So you 
can't really pass it on as a direct fee and bypass your income tax liability 
for it. 



/blockquote

No. Federal billing rules say that you cannot collect more on your retail bill 
for FUSF than you pass along. No markups allowed. Most of the other charges can 
also be passed along one for one, but state rules could vary. 

But the rate is not exactly what you think. The Federal USF rate is calculated 
as a percentage, changed quarterly (it has gone over 17%), of your interstate 
telecommunications service billing. If you are providing local telephone 
service, that line item is not subject to USF as it is intrastate, not 
intersate. Internet access is not subject to USF as it is information service, 
not telecommunications service. The tax was meant to apply to long distance 
calls, which were a lot of money back in the day. 

If you are (as is the norm nowadays) providing a service that does not charge 
explicitly for interstate long distance, then you have two options. There is a 
safe harbor of 64.9%, wherein that percentage of the total phone package is 
deemed interstate. So if you sold it for $10/month, the tax would be applied to 
$6.49 of it. This number was computed back when VoIP services were primarily 
used as cheap dial-around long distance, not as primary lines, so the PIU 
(percentage interstate use -- this number comes up a LOT in telecom billing) 
was high. 

You can also compute what percentage of your calls are actually interstate, and 
pay USF on that percentage of the bill. This involves filling out the Form 
499-Q's correctly, but it is the norm nowadays. 

Bear in mind that there is a de minimis rule. If you would owe less than 
$10k/year, then you only file Form 499-A (annual, vs. quarterly), and don't pay 
anything. BUT you then are treated as a retail customer of your wholesale 
provider(s), and *they* collect USF on what they bill you. If you are no de 
minimis, and do actually pay USF, then you tell that to your providers, who 
have to verify it against FCC records, and then they don't charge you USF. It's 
sort of like a retailer's exemption on sales tax; it's only collected once. 
Note that this whole system is on the docket at the FCC and they're still 
thinking about how to revise it, but don't seem to have a consensus, so they're 
just putting it off. 




blockquote



On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Chris Fabien  ch...@lakenetmi.com  wrote: 

blockquote

That looks about right, it varies by state/locality of course. We collect 
Federal USF, State use tax, state and county E911. The USF you get to pocket 
until your required contributions are $10k/year - under that you are considered 
de minimus and just have to file the annual form. 


When we set up our billing the Telecom Relay Fund passed under our radar so now 
we're just paying for that out of pocket. I'm not sure if you are allowed to 
collect that specifically from your

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-29 Thread Fred Goldstein


On 7/29/2013 8:22 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
A lawyer once told me that you aren't required to file with USAC for 
under $10k, but there is nothing preventing you. Don't mess around 
with the who does USF when dance, just do it from the beginning yourself.




That doesn't sound right to me.  If you are required to file except for 
being under the $10k, then you are expected to file a 499-A annually.  
You may not however elect to pay directly.  There are small carriers 
asking the FCC to let them waive de minimis status (which can under some 
circumstances be a disadvantage), but so far that hasn't been granted.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com
*To: *wireless@wispa.org
*Sent: *Sunday, July 28, 2013 6:06:13 PM
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees,  Insanity

On 7/28/2013 2:20 PM, Jeremy wrote:

So while I am de minimus should I not be charging a USF fee?  You
stated that I cannot charge more than I pass along but if I pass
along nothing until I am at the 10K mark then am I not supposed to
bill it until that point?


Carlos has good advice -- consult a lawyer.  (I'm not a lawyer but I 
play an engineer on TV.)  I just checked with one who could not render 
actual advice.  Rather, he explained, This is one of the mysteries 
of USF.


The FCC forgot about this case when they did the rules.  So the usual 
practice seems to be to collect the fees.  You might after all be 
passing them along to your wholesale provider, who is charging USF to 
you.  But if you do go over the $10k limit, then you could owe 
retroactively, and in that case you want the money in the bank!  So 
unless they've clarified this in the instructions on the Form 499s (be 
warned; they do that sometimes, and you don't know the rule until you 
read the new fine print), you can pass along the fee you would be 
collecting under safe harbor, and apply it to the USF charges you're 
being hit with.


I don't think these crazy fees are a reason to avoid voice services, 
but they are a pain to administer.  The FCC is terrible about writing 
clear rules.



On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Fred Goldstein
fgoldst...@ionary.com mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:

On 7/28/2013 12:46 AM, Jeremy wrote:

From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever
you want directly from your customers but it may be
considered as income and taxed as such.  So you can't
really pass it on as a direct fee and bypass your income
tax liability for it.


No.  Federal billing rules say that you cannot collect more on
your retail bill for FUSF than you pass along.  No markups
allowed.  Most of the other charges can also be passed along
one for one, but state rules could vary.

But the rate is not exactly what you think.  The Federal USF
rate is calculated as a percentage, changed quarterly (it has
gone over 17%), of your interstate telecommunications service
billing.  If you are providing local telephone service, that
line item is not subject to USF as it is intrastate, not
intersate.  Internet access is not subject to USF as it is
information service, not telecommunications service.  The tax
was meant to apply to long distance calls, which were a lot of
money back in the day.

If you are (as is the norm nowadays) providing a service that
does not charge explicitly for interstate long distance, then
you have two options.  There is a safe harbor of 64.9%,
wherein that percentage of the total phone package is deemed
interstate.  So if you sold it for $10/month, the tax would be
applied to $6.49 of it.  This number was computed back when
VoIP services were primarily used as cheap dial-around long
distance, not as primary lines, so the PIU (percentage
interstate use -- this number comes up a LOT in telecom
billing) was high.

You can also compute what percentage of your calls are
actually interstate, and pay USF on that percentage of the
bill.  This involves filling out the Form 499-Q's correctly,
but it is the norm nowadays.

Bear in mind that there is a de minimis rule.  If you would
owe less than $10k/year, then you only file Form 499-A
(annual, vs. quarterly), and don't pay anything.  BUT you then
are treated as a retail customer of your wholesale
provider(s), and *they* collect USF on what they bill you.  If
you are no de minimis, and do actually pay USF, then you tell
that to your providers, who have to verify it against FCC
records, and then they don't charge you USF.  It's sort of
like a retailer's exemption on sales tax; it's

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Fred Goldstein

On 7/28/2013 12:46 AM, Jeremy wrote:
From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever you want
directly from your customers but it may be considered as income and
taxed as such. So you can't really pass it on as a direct fee and
bypass your income tax liability for it.

No. Federal billing rules say that you cannot collect more on your
retail bill for FUSF than you pass along. No markups allowed. Most of
the other charges can also be passed along one for one, but state rules
could vary.

But the rate is not exactly what you think. The Federal USF rate is
calculated as a percentage, changed quarterly (it has gone over 17%), of
your interstate telecommunications service billing. If you are
providing local telephone service, that line item is not subject to USF
as it is intrastate, not intersate. Internet access is not subject to
USF as it is information service, not telecommunications service. The
tax was meant to apply to long distance calls, which were a lot of money
back in the day.

If you are (as is the norm nowadays) providing a service that does not
charge explicitly for interstate long distance, then you have two
options. There is a safe harbor of 64.9%, wherein that percentage of
the total phone package is deemed interstate. So if you sold it for
$10/month, the tax would be applied to $6.49 of it. This number was
computed back when VoIP services were primarily used as cheap
dial-around long distance, not as primary lines, so the PIU
(percentage interstate use -- this number comes up a LOT in telecom
billing) was high.

You can also compute what percentage of your calls are actually
interstate, and pay USF on that percentage of the bill. This involves
filling out the Form 499-Q's correctly, but it is the norm nowadays.

Bear in mind that there is a de minimis rule. If you would owe less
than $10k/year, then you only file Form 499-A (annual, vs. quarterly),
and don't pay anything. BUT you then are treated as a retail customer
of your wholesale provider(s), and *they* collect USF on what they bill
you. If you are no de minimis, and do actually pay USF, then you tell
that to your providers, who have to verify it against FCC records, and
then they don't charge you USF. It's sort of like a retailer's exemption
on sales tax; it's only collected once. Note that this whole system is
on the docket at the FCC and they're still thinking about how to revise
it, but don't seem to have a consensus, so they're just putting it off.

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.com
mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com wrote:

That looks about right, it varies by state/locality of course. We
collect Federal USF, State use tax, state and county E911. The USF
you get to pocket until your required contributions are $10k/year
- under that you are considered de minimus and just have to file
the annual form.

When we set up our billing the Telecom Relay Fund passed under our
radar so now we're just paying for that out of pocket. I'm not
sure if you are allowed to collect that specifically from your
customers as well.

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and
the main thing that has me confused is the Universal Service
Fund. It seems that my state (Utah) has a USF of 0.45%

http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf

Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%?? That is huge!

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

Then there is sales and use tax of
*State Sales Use -* 4.7%
*Municipality Sales Use - *varies - see
http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf

Then we have E911:

*E911 State -* .08
*E911 County -* .61
*Poison Control -* .07
*---*
*Total for E911 -* .76

Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the
*Telecommunications Relay Fund* - .06
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf

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--
Fred R. Goldstein fred at interisle.net
Interisle Consulting Group
+1 617 795 2701

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Jeremy

So while I am de minimus should I not be charging a USF fee? You stated
that I cannot charge more than I pass along but if I pass along nothing
until I am at the 10K mark then am I not supposed to bill it until that
point?

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote:

On 7/28/2013 12:46 AM, Jeremy wrote:

From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever you want directly
from your customers but it may be considered as income and taxed as such.
So you can't really pass it on as a direct fee and bypass your income tax
liability for it.

No. Federal billing rules say that you cannot collect more on your retail
bill for FUSF than you pass along. No markups allowed. Most of the other
charges can also be passed along one for one, but state rules could vary.

But the rate is not exactly what you think. The Federal USF rate is
calculated as a percentage, changed quarterly (it has gone over 17%), of
your interstate telecommunications service billing. If you are providing
local telephone service, that line item is not subject to USF as it is
intrastate, not intersate. Internet access is not subject to USF as it is
information service, not telecommunications service. The tax was meant to
apply to long distance calls, which were a lot of money back in the day.

If you are (as is the norm nowadays) providing a service that does not
charge explicitly for interstate long distance, then you have two options.
There is a safe harbor of 64.9%, wherein that percentage of the total
phone package is deemed interstate. So if you sold it for $10/month, the
tax would be applied to $6.49 of it. This number was computed back when
VoIP services were primarily used as cheap dial-around long distance, not
as primary lines, so the PIU (percentage interstate use -- this number
comes up a LOT in telecom billing) was high.

Bear in mind that there is a de minimis rule. If you would owe less
than $10k/year, then you only file Form 499-A (annual, vs. quarterly), and
don't pay anything. BUT you then are treated as a retail customer of your
wholesale provider(s), and *they* collect USF on what they bill you. If
you are no de minimis, and do actually pay USF, then you tell that to your
providers, who have to verify it against FCC records, and then they don't
charge you USF. It's sort of like a retailer's exemption on sales tax;
it's only collected once. Note that this whole system is on the docket at
the FCC and they're still thinking about how to revise it, but don't seem
to have a consensus, so they're just putting it off.

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.comwrote:

That looks about right, it varies by state/locality of course. We collect
Federal USF, State use tax, state and county E911. The USF you get to
pocket until your required contributions are $10k/year - under that you are
considered de minimus and just have to file the annual form.

When we set up our billing the Telecom Relay Fund passed under our
radar so now we're just paying for that out of pocket. I'm not sure if you
are allowed to collect that specifically from your customers as well.

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main
thing that has me confused is the Universal Service Fund. It seems that my
state (Utah) has a USF of 0.45%
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf

Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%?? That is huge!
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

Then there is sales and use tax of
*State Sales Use -* 4.7%
*Municipality Sales Use - *varies - see
http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf

Then we have E911:

*E911 State -* .08
*E911 County -* .61
*Poison Control -* .07
*---*
*Total for E911 -* .76

Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the *Telecommunications
Relay Fund* - .06
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf

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Wireless mailing
listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

--
Fred R. Goldstein fred at interisle.net
Interisle Consulting Group
+1 617 795 2701

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

Hi Fred, 

on a related note... Neustar sending bills to anyone/everyone filling out FCC 
form 499, for LNP system, is that legit ? 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
- Original Message -

From: Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com 
To: wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 11:42:04 AM 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees,  Insanity 

On 7/28/2013 12:46 AM, Jeremy wrote: 



From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever you want directly from 
your customers but it may be considered as income and taxed as such. So you 
can't really pass it on as a direct fee and bypass your income tax liability 
for it. 




No. Federal billing rules say that you cannot collect more on your retail bill 
for FUSF than you pass along. No markups allowed. Most of the other charges can 
also be passed along one for one, but state rules could vary. 

But the rate is not exactly what you think. The Federal USF rate is calculated 
as a percentage, changed quarterly (it has gone over 17%), of your interstate 
telecommunications service billing. If you are providing local telephone 
service, that line item is not subject to USF as it is intrastate, not 
intersate. Internet access is not subject to USF as it is information service, 
not telecommunications service. The tax was meant to apply to long distance 
calls, which were a lot of money back in the day. 

If you are (as is the norm nowadays) providing a service that does not charge 
explicitly for interstate long distance, then you have two options. There is a 
safe harbor of 64.9%, wherein that percentage of the total phone package is 
deemed interstate. So if you sold it for $10/month, the tax would be applied to 
$6.49 of it. This number was computed back when VoIP services were primarily 
used as cheap dial-around long distance, not as primary lines, so the PIU 
(percentage interstate use -- this number comes up a LOT in telecom billing) 
was high. 

You can also compute what percentage of your calls are actually interstate, and 
pay USF on that percentage of the bill. This involves filling out the Form 
499-Q's correctly, but it is the norm nowadays. 

Bear in mind that there is a de minimis rule. If you would owe less than 
$10k/year, then you only file Form 499-A (annual, vs. quarterly), and don't pay 
anything. BUT you then are treated as a retail customer of your wholesale 
provider(s), and *they* collect USF on what they bill you. If you are no de 
minimis, and do actually pay USF, then you tell that to your providers, who 
have to verify it against FCC records, and then they don't charge you USF. It's 
sort of like a retailer's exemption on sales tax; it's only collected once. 
Note that this whole system is on the docket at the FCC and they're still 
thinking about how to revise it, but don't seem to have a consensus, so they're 
just putting it off. 


blockquote


On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Chris Fabien  ch...@lakenetmi.com  wrote: 

blockquote

That looks about right, it varies by state/locality of course. We collect 
Federal USF, State use tax, state and county E911. The USF you get to pocket 
until your required contributions are $10k/year - under that you are considered 
de minimus and just have to file the annual form. 

When we set up our billing the Telecom Relay Fund passed under our radar so now 
we're just paying for that out of pocket. I'm not sure if you are allowed to 
collect that specifically from your customers as well. 


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Jeremy  jeremysmi...@gmail.com  wrote: 

blockquote

I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main thing that 
has me confused is the Universal Service Fund. It seems that my state (Utah) 
has a USF of 0.45% 
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf
 

Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%?? That is huge! 
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support
 

Then there is sales and use tax of 
State Sales  Use - 4.7% 
Municipality Sales  Use - varies - see 
http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf 

Then we have E911: 

E911 State - .08 
E911 County - .61 
Poison Control - .07 
--- 
Total for E911 - .76 

Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the Telecommunications Relay 
Fund - .06 
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf 


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/blockquote



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Wireless@wispa.org 
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/blockquote




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/blockquote


-- 
 Fred R. Goldstein  fred at interisle.net

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Fred Goldstein

On 7/28/2013 2:34 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Hi Fred,

on a related note... Neustar sending bills to anyone/everyone filling
out FCC form 499, for LNP system, is that legit ?

Good question. They are allowed to charge for LNP, and the formula for
that is subject to some current arguments. It is based on revenues,
form 499. I'm not sure who is exempt, if anyone.

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz

*From: *Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com
*To: *wireless@wispa.org
*Sent: *Sunday, July 28, 2013 11:42:04 AM
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

On 7/28/2013 12:46 AM, Jeremy wrote:

From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever you want
directly from your customers but it may be considered as income
and taxed as such. So you can't really pass it on as a direct fee
and bypass your income tax liability for it.

No. Federal billing rules say that you cannot collect more on your
retail bill for FUSF than you pass along. No markups allowed. Most
of the other charges can also be passed along one for one, but state
rules could vary.

But the rate is not exactly what you think. The Federal USF rate is
calculated as a percentage, changed quarterly (it has gone over 17%),
of your interstate telecommunications service billing. If you are
providing local telephone service, that line item is not subject to
USF as it is intrastate, not intersate. Internet access is not
subject to USF as it is information service, not telecommunications
service. The tax was meant to apply to long distance calls, which
were a lot of money back in the day.

If you are (as is the norm nowadays) providing a service that does not
charge explicitly for interstate long distance, then you have two
options. There is a safe harbor of 64.9%, wherein that percentage
of the total phone package is deemed interstate. So if you sold it
for $10/month, the tax would be applied to $6.49 of it. This number
was computed back when VoIP services were primarily used as cheap
dial-around long distance, not as primary lines, so the PIU
(percentage interstate use -- this number comes up a LOT in telecom
billing) was high.

Bear in mind that there is a de minimis rule. If you would owe less
than $10k/year, then you only file Form 499-A (annual, vs. quarterly),
and don't pay anything. BUT you then are treated as a retail customer
of your wholesale provider(s), and *they* collect USF on what they
bill you. If you are no de minimis, and do actually pay USF, then you
tell that to your providers, who have to verify it against FCC
records, and then they don't charge you USF. It's sort of like a
retailer's exemption on sales tax; it's only collected once. Note
that this whole system is on the docket at the FCC and they're still
thinking about how to revise it, but don't seem to have a consensus,
so they're just putting it off.

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Chris Fabien
ch...@lakenetmi.com mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com wrote:

That looks about right, it varies by state/locality of course.
We collect Federal USF, State use tax, state and county E911.
The USF you get to pocket until your required contributions
are $10k/year - under that you are considered de minimus and
just have to file the annual form.

When we set up our billing the Telecom Relay Fund passed under
our radar so now we're just paying for that out of pocket. I'm
not sure if you are allowed to collect that specifically from
your customers as well.

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Jeremy
jeremysmi...@gmail.com mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP
and the main thing that has me confused is the Universal
Service Fund. It seems that my state (Utah) has a USF of
0.45%

http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf

Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%?? That is
huge!

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

Then there is sales and use tax of
*State Sales Use -* 4.7%
*Municipality Sales Use - *varies - see
http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf

Then we have E911:

*E911 State -* .08
*E911 County -* .61
*Poison Control -* .07
*---*
*Total for E911 -* .76

Then, since October 2011 we are also liable

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Matt Hoppes

This is one reason I won't touch VoIP. 

On Jul 28, 2013, at 0:20, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main thing 
 that has me confused is the Universal Service Fund.  It seems that my state 
 (Utah) has a USF of 0.45% 
 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf
  
 
 Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%??  That is huge!  
 http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support
 
 Then there is sales and use tax of 
 State Sales  Use - 4.7%
 Municipality Sales  Use - varies - see 
 http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf
 
 Then we have E911:
 
 E911 State - .08
 E911 County - .61
 Poison Control - .07
 ---
 Total for E911 - .76
 
 Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the Telecommunications Relay 
 Fund - .06
  http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf
 ___
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 Wireless@wispa.org
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Carlos Alcantar

I would highly suggest you go talk to a telecom tax lawyer.  Taxes on voice are 
all over the place and in most cases it's up into interpretation, and this is 
where things can go really bad if you think it's one way and they think it's 
the other.  Just my 2 cents.

Carlos Alcantar
Race Communications / Race Team Member
1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / http://www.race.com

From: Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.commailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org
Date: Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:20 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees,  Insanity

I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main thing that 
has me confused is the Universal Service Fund.  It seems that my state (Utah) 
has a USF of 0.45% 
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf

Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%??  That is huge!  
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

Then there is sales and use tax of
State Sales  Use - 4.7%
Municipality Sales  Use - varies - see 
http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf

Then we have E911:

E911 State - .08
E911 County - .61
Poison Control - .07
---
Total for E911 - .76

Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the Telecommunications Relay 
Fund - .06
 http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

hehe you can dip your toes in the water... it is warm. 

When done right, voip can easily have 50% to 80% margin. 

paying these fees and taxes are just tiny nuisance. 


:) 


Faisal Imtiaz 


- Original Message -

From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com 
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 3:51:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees,  Insanity 

This is one reason I won't touch VoIP. 

On Jul 28, 2013, at 0:20, Jeremy  jeremysmi...@gmail.com  wrote: 




I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main thing that 
has me confused is the Universal Service Fund. It seems that my state (Utah) 
has a USF of 0.45% 
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf
 

Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%?? That is huge! 
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support
 

Then there is sales and use tax of 
State Sales  Use - 4.7% 
Municipality Sales  Use - varies - see 
http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf 

Then we have E911: 

E911 State - .08 
E911 County - .61 
Poison Control - .07 
--- 
Total for E911 - .76 

Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the Telecommunications Relay 
Fund - .06 
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf 




blockquote

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Wireless@wispa.org 
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Wireless@wispa.org
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Josh Luthman

How much are you charging for it?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jul 28, 2013 6:45 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote:

 hehe you can dip your toes in the water... it is warm.

 When done right, voip can easily have 50% to 80% margin.

 paying these fees and taxes are just tiny nuisance.


 :)


 Faisal Imtiaz


 --
 *From: *Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com
 *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 *Cc: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 *Sent: *Sunday, July 28, 2013 3:51:55 PM
 *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees,  Insanity

 This is one reason I won't touch VoIP.

 On Jul 28, 2013, at 0:20, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main thing
 that has me confused is the Universal Service Fund.  It seems that my state
 (Utah) has a USF of 0.45% 
 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf


 Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%??  That is huge!
 http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

 Then there is sales and use tax of
 *State Sales  Use -* 4.7%
 *Municipality Sales  Use - *varies - see
 http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf

 Then we have E911:

 *E911 State -* .08
 *E911 County -* .61
 *Poison Control -* .07
 *---*
 *Total for E911 -* .76

 Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the *Telecommunications
 Relay Fund* - .06
  http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf

 ___
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 Wireless@wispa.org
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless


 ___
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 Wireless@wispa.org
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless


 ___
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 Wireless@wispa.org
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Fred Goldstein


On 7/28/2013 2:20 PM, Jeremy wrote:
So while I am de minimus should I not be charging a USF fee?  You 
stated that I cannot charge more than I pass along but if I pass along 
nothing until I am at the 10K mark then am I not supposed to bill it 
until that point?




Carlos has good advice -- consult a lawyer.  (I'm not a lawyer but I 
play an engineer on TV.)  I just checked with one who could not render 
actual advice.  Rather, he explained, This is one of the mysteries of 
USF.


The FCC forgot about this case when they did the rules.  So the usual 
practice seems to be to collect the fees.  You might after all be 
passing them along to your wholesale provider, who is charging USF to 
you.  But if you do go over the $10k limit, then you could owe 
retroactively, and in that case you want the money in the bank! So 
unless they've clarified this in the instructions on the Form 499s (be 
warned; they do that sometimes, and you don't know the rule until you 
read the new fine print), you can pass along the fee you would be 
collecting under safe harbor, and apply it to the USF charges you're 
being hit with.


I don't think these crazy fees are a reason to avoid voice services, but 
they are a pain to administer.  The FCC is terrible about writing clear 
rules.




On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com 
mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:


On 7/28/2013 12:46 AM, Jeremy wrote:

From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever you want
directly from your customers but it may be considered as income
and taxed as such.  So you can't really pass it on as a direct
fee and bypass your income tax liability for it.



No.  Federal billing rules say that you cannot collect more on
your retail bill for FUSF than you pass along.  No markups
allowed.  Most of the other charges can also be passed along one
for one, but state rules could vary.

But the rate is not exactly what you think.  The Federal USF rate
is calculated as a percentage, changed quarterly (it has gone over
17%), of your interstate telecommunications service billing.  If
you are providing local telephone service, that line item is not
subject to USF as it is intrastate, not intersate.  Internet
access is not subject to USF as it is information service, not
telecommunications service.  The tax was meant to apply to long
distance calls, which were a lot of money back in the day.

If you are (as is the norm nowadays) providing a service that does
not charge explicitly for interstate long distance, then you have
two options.  There is a safe harbor of 64.9%, wherein that
percentage of the total phone package is deemed interstate.  So if
you sold it for $10/month, the tax would be applied to $6.49 of
it.  This number was computed back when VoIP services were
primarily used as cheap dial-around long distance, not as primary
lines, so the PIU (percentage interstate use -- this number
comes up a LOT in telecom billing) was high.

You can also compute what percentage of your calls are actually
interstate, and pay USF on that percentage of the bill.  This
involves filling out the Form 499-Q's correctly, but it is the
norm nowadays.

Bear in mind that there is a de minimis rule.  If you would owe
less than $10k/year, then you only file Form 499-A (annual, vs.
quarterly), and don't pay anything. BUT you then are treated as a
retail customer of your wholesale provider(s), and *they* collect
USF on what they bill you.  If you are no de minimis, and do
actually pay USF, then you tell that to your providers, who have
to verify it against FCC records, and then they don't charge you
USF.  It's sort of like a retailer's exemption on sales tax; it's
only collected once.  Note that this whole system is on the docket
at the FCC and they're still thinking about how to revise it, but
don't seem to have a consensus, so they're just putting it off.




On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Chris Fabien
ch...@lakenetmi.com mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com wrote:

That looks about right, it varies by state/locality of
course. We collect Federal USF, State use tax, state and
county E911. The USF you get to pocket until your required
contributions are $10k/year - under that you are considered
de minimus and just have to file the annual form.

When we set up our billing the Telecom Relay Fund passed
under our radar so now we're just paying for that out of
pocket. I'm not sure if you are allowed to collect that
specifically from your customers as well.


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Jeremy
jeremysmi...@gmail.com mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP
and the main thing that has me confused is the Universal

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Jeremy

Josh - $21.95 residential and $29.95 business.


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote:

  On 7/28/2013 2:20 PM, Jeremy wrote:

 So while I am de minimus should I not be charging a USF fee?  You stated
 that I cannot charge more than I pass along but if I pass along nothing
 until I am at the 10K mark then am I not supposed to bill it until that
 point?


 Carlos has good advice -- consult a lawyer.  (I'm not a lawyer but I play
 an engineer on TV.)  I just checked with one who could not render actual
 advice.  Rather, he explained, This is one of the mysteries of USF.

 The FCC forgot about this case when they did the rules.  So the usual
 practice seems to be to collect the fees.  You might after all be passing
 them along to your wholesale provider, who is charging USF to you.  But if
 you do go over the $10k limit, then you could owe retroactively, and in
 that case you want the money in the bank!  So unless they've clarified this
 in the instructions on the Form 499s (be warned; they do that sometimes,
 and you don't know the rule until you read the new fine print), you can
 pass along the fee you would be collecting under safe harbor, and apply it
 to the USF charges you're being hit with.

 I don't think these crazy fees are a reason to avoid voice services, but
 they are a pain to administer.  The FCC is terrible about writing clear
 rules.



 On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote:

  On 7/28/2013 12:46 AM, Jeremy wrote:

 From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever you want directly
 from your customers but it may be considered as income and taxed as such.
 So you can't really pass it on as a direct fee and bypass your income tax
 liability for it.


  No.  Federal billing rules say that you cannot collect more on your
 retail bill for FUSF than you pass along.  No markups allowed.  Most of the
 other charges can also be passed along one for one, but state rules could
 vary.

 But the rate is not exactly what you think.  The Federal USF rate is
 calculated as a percentage, changed quarterly (it has gone over 17%), of
 your interstate telecommunications service billing.  If you are providing
 local telephone service, that line item is not subject to USF as it is
 intrastate, not intersate.  Internet access is not subject to USF as it is
 information service, not telecommunications service.  The tax was meant to
 apply to long distance calls, which were a lot of money back in the day.

 If you are (as is the norm nowadays) providing a service that does not
 charge explicitly for interstate long distance, then you have two options.
 There is a safe harbor of 64.9%, wherein that percentage of the total
 phone package is deemed interstate.  So if you sold it for $10/month, the
 tax would be applied to $6.49 of it.  This number was computed back when
 VoIP services were primarily used as cheap dial-around long distance, not
 as primary lines, so the PIU (percentage interstate use -- this number
 comes up a LOT in telecom billing) was high.

 You can also compute what percentage of your calls are actually
 interstate, and pay USF on that percentage of the bill.  This involves
 filling out the Form 499-Q's correctly, but it is the norm nowadays.

 Bear in mind that there is a de minimis rule.  If you would owe less
 than $10k/year, then you only file Form 499-A (annual, vs. quarterly), and
 don't pay anything.  BUT you then are treated as a retail customer of your
 wholesale provider(s), and *they* collect USF on what they bill you.  If
 you are no de minimis, and do actually pay USF, then you tell that to your
 providers, who have to verify it against FCC records, and then they don't
 charge you USF.  It's sort of like a retailer's exemption on sales tax;
 it's only collected once.  Note that this whole system is on the docket at
 the FCC and they're still thinking about how to revise it, but don't seem
 to have a consensus, so they're just putting it off.



 On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.comwrote:

 That looks about right, it varies by state/locality of course. We
 collect Federal USF, State use tax, state and county E911. The USF you get
 to pocket until your required contributions are $10k/year - under that you
 are considered de minimus and just have to file the annual form.

  When we set up our billing the Telecom Relay Fund passed under our
 radar so now we're just paying for that out of pocket. I'm not sure if you
 are allowed to collect that specifically from your customers as well.


  On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.comwrote:

I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the
 main thing that has me confused is the Universal Service Fund.  It seems
 that my state (Utah) has a USF of 0.45% 
 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf


  Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%??

Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-28 Thread Josh Luthman

I meant those getting 80% profit.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jul 28, 2013 7:17 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 (plus taxes and fees)


 On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Josh - $21.95 residential and $29.95 business.


 On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote:

  On 7/28/2013 2:20 PM, Jeremy wrote:

 So while I am de minimus should I not be charging a USF fee?  You stated
 that I cannot charge more than I pass along but if I pass along nothing
 until I am at the 10K mark then am I not supposed to bill it until that
 point?


 Carlos has good advice -- consult a lawyer.  (I'm not a lawyer but I
 play an engineer on TV.)  I just checked with one who could not render
 actual advice.  Rather, he explained, This is one of the mysteries of
 USF.

 The FCC forgot about this case when they did the rules.  So the usual
 practice seems to be to collect the fees.  You might after all be passing
 them along to your wholesale provider, who is charging USF to you.  But if
 you do go over the $10k limit, then you could owe retroactively, and in
 that case you want the money in the bank!  So unless they've clarified this
 in the instructions on the Form 499s (be warned; they do that sometimes,
 and you don't know the rule until you read the new fine print), you can
 pass along the fee you would be collecting under safe harbor, and apply it
 to the USF charges you're being hit with.

 I don't think these crazy fees are a reason to avoid voice services, but
 they are a pain to administer.  The FCC is terrible about writing clear
 rules.



 On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Fred Goldstein 
 fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote:

  On 7/28/2013 12:46 AM, Jeremy wrote:

 From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever you want
 directly from your customers but it may be considered as income and taxed
 as such.  So you can't really pass it on as a direct fee and bypass your
 income tax liability for it.


  No.  Federal billing rules say that you cannot collect more on your
 retail bill for FUSF than you pass along.  No markups allowed.  Most of the
 other charges can also be passed along one for one, but state rules could
 vary.

 But the rate is not exactly what you think.  The Federal USF rate is
 calculated as a percentage, changed quarterly (it has gone over 17%), of
 your interstate telecommunications service billing.  If you are providing
 local telephone service, that line item is not subject to USF as it is
 intrastate, not intersate.  Internet access is not subject to USF as it is
 information service, not telecommunications service.  The tax was meant to
 apply to long distance calls, which were a lot of money back in the day.

 If you are (as is the norm nowadays) providing a service that does not
 charge explicitly for interstate long distance, then you have two options.
 There is a safe harbor of 64.9%, wherein that percentage of the total
 phone package is deemed interstate.  So if you sold it for $10/month, the
 tax would be applied to $6.49 of it.  This number was computed back when
 VoIP services were primarily used as cheap dial-around long distance, not
 as primary lines, so the PIU (percentage interstate use -- this number
 comes up a LOT in telecom billing) was high.

 You can also compute what percentage of your calls are actually
 interstate, and pay USF on that percentage of the bill.  This involves
 filling out the Form 499-Q's correctly, but it is the norm nowadays.

 Bear in mind that there is a de minimis rule.  If you would owe less
 than $10k/year, then you only file Form 499-A (annual, vs. quarterly), and
 don't pay anything.  BUT you then are treated as a retail customer of your
 wholesale provider(s), and *they* collect USF on what they bill you.  If
 you are no de minimis, and do actually pay USF, then you tell that to your
 providers, who have to verify it against FCC records, and then they don't
 charge you USF.  It's sort of like a retailer's exemption on sales tax;
 it's only collected once.  Note that this whole system is on the docket at
 the FCC and they're still thinking about how to revise it, but don't seem
 to have a consensus, so they're just putting it off.



 On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.comwrote:

 That looks about right, it varies by state/locality of course. We
 collect Federal USF, State use tax, state and county E911. The USF you get
 to pocket until your required contributions are $10k/year - under that you
 are considered de minimus and just have to file the annual form.

  When we set up our billing the Telecom Relay Fund passed under our
 radar so now we're just paying for that out of pocket. I'm not sure if you
 are allowed to collect that specifically from your customers as well.


  On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.comwrote:

I am attempting to figure

[WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-27 Thread Jeremy

I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main thing
that has me confused is the Universal Service Fund.  It seems that my state
(Utah) has a USF of 0.45%
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf


Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%??  That is huge!
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

Then there is sales and use tax of
*State Sales  Use -* 4.7%
*Municipality Sales  Use - *varies - see
http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf

Then we have E911:

*E911 State -* .08
*E911 County -* .61
*Poison Control -* .07
*---*
*Total for E911 -* .76

Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the *Telecommunications
Relay Fund* - .06
 http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-27 Thread Jeremy

Accidentally hit send.  There is more!  We also have:

*Municipal Telecommunications License Tax (MTLT) - *3.5% ...this is the
tricky one.  It is never charged on a county level and is determined by the
zip+4 of the municipality.  It appears that most charge it but some don't
and unincorporated areas never do.
http://tax.utah.gov/utah-taxes/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=177#telecom
http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3other.pdf

So we are looking at like 25-30% tax?? Is this correct?


On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main thing
 that has me confused is the Universal Service Fund.  It seems that my state
 (Utah) has a USF of 0.45% 
 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf


 Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%??  That is huge!
 http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

 Then there is sales and use tax of
 *State Sales  Use -* 4.7%
 *Municipality Sales  Use - *varies - see
 http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf

 Then we have E911:

 *E911 State -* .08
 *E911 County -* .61
 *Poison Control -* .07
 *---*
 *Total for E911 -* .76

 Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the *Telecommunications
 Relay Fund* - .06
  http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf

 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-27 Thread Chris Fabien

Our $25 phone service ends up being between $29 and $33 depending on what
county the customer is in Sounds like your taxes are higher there.


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:22 AM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Accidentally hit send.  There is more!  We also have:

 *Municipal Telecommunications License Tax (MTLT) - *3.5% ...this is the
 tricky one.  It is never charged on a county level and is determined by the
 zip+4 of the municipality.  It appears that most charge it but some don't
 and unincorporated areas never do.
 http://tax.utah.gov/utah-taxes/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=177#telecom
 http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3other.pdf

 So we are looking at like 25-30% tax?? Is this correct?


 On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main
 thing that has me confused is the Universal Service Fund.  It seems that my
 state (Utah) has a USF of 0.45% 
 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf


 Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%??  That is huge!
 http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

 Then there is sales and use tax of
 *State Sales  Use -* 4.7%
 *Municipality Sales  Use - *varies - see
 http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf

 Then we have E911:

 *E911 State -* .08
 *E911 County -* .61
 *Poison Control -* .07
 *---*
 *Total for E911 -* .76

 Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the *Telecommunications
 Relay Fund* - .06
  http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf

 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf



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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-27 Thread Chris Fabien

That looks about right, it varies by state/locality of course. We collect
Federal USF, State use tax, state and county E911. The USF you get to
pocket until your required contributions are $10k/year - under that you are
considered de minimus and just have to file the annual form.

When we set up our billing the Telecom Relay Fund passed under our radar so
now we're just paying for that out of pocket. I'm not sure if you are
allowed to collect that specifically from your customers as well.


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main thing
 that has me confused is the Universal Service Fund.  It seems that my state
 (Utah) has a USF of 0.45% 
 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf


 Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%??  That is huge!
 http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

 Then there is sales and use tax of
 *State Sales  Use -* 4.7%
 *Municipality Sales  Use - *varies - see
 http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf

 Then we have E911:

 *E911 State -* .08
 *E911 County -* .61
 *Poison Control -* .07
 *---*
 *Total for E911 -* .76

 Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the *Telecommunications
 Relay Fund* - .06
  http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf

 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP Taxes, Fees, Insanity

2013-07-27 Thread Jeremy

From what I read it seems like you can collect whatever you want directly
from your customers but it may be considered as income and taxed as such.
So you can't really pass it on as a direct fee and bypass your income tax
liability for it.


On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Chris Fabien ch...@lakenetmi.com wrote:

 That looks about right, it varies by state/locality of course. We collect
 Federal USF, State use tax, state and county E911. The USF you get to
 pocket until your required contributions are $10k/year - under that you are
 considered de minimus and just have to file the annual form.

 When we set up our billing the Telecom Relay Fund passed under our radar
 so now we're just paying for that out of pocket. I'm not sure if you are
 allowed to collect that specifically from your customers as well.


 On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am attempting to figure out all of the taxes for VoiP and the main
 thing that has me confused is the Universal Service Fund.  It seems that my
 state (Utah) has a USF of 0.45% 
 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf


 Then it also seems like the Feds want 15.1%??  That is huge!
 http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

 Then there is sales and use tax of
 *State Sales  Use -* 4.7%
 *Municipality Sales  Use - *varies - see
 http://tax.utah.gov/salestax/rate/13q3combined.pdf

 Then we have E911:

 *E911 State -* .08
 *E911 County -* .61
 *Poison Control -* .07
 *---*
 *Total for E911 -* .76

 Then, since October 2011 we are also liable for the *Telecommunications
 Relay Fund* - .06
  http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-150A1.pdf

 http://www.psc.state.ut.us/utilities/telecom/documents/Rule%20746-360%20amendment.rtf

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP CALEA Question

2012-03-02 Thread Mike Hammett

*A* solution would be to simply not do RTP redirect. Not the best 
solution, but it is one.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 3/1/2012 6:20 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 We are considering doing some limited VoIP offerings to supplement our
 GSM offerings in certain situations.

 A question that just arose, and I don't know the answer to is:

 * Understanding that an interconnected VoIP carrier must be CALEA
 compliant and be able to record calls.

 ** How does this situation work if the audio stream does not pass
 through your soft-switch? (e.g. end user makes a call, my soft switch
 sets up the call between end-user and Level3, and then a re-invite
 happens which sends the audio from the end-user direct to the Level3 switch)

 How am I suppose to be able to record that call?
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP CALEA Question

2012-03-02 Thread J.C. Utter

Matt:

Given traffic that is not originated or terminated by your soft switch, 
intercept orders for that traffic is only subject to the requirements 
for network access providers that do not provide VoIP services. However, 
traffic that is originated or terminated by your soft switch would be 
subject to additional reporting requirements including call record details.

jc



On 3/1/2012 6:20 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 We are considering doing some limited VoIP offerings to supplement our
 GSM offerings in certain situations.

 A question that just arose, and I don't know the answer to is:

 * Understanding that an interconnected VoIP carrier must be CALEA
 compliant and be able to record calls.

 ** How does this situation work if the audio stream does not pass
 through your soft-switch? (e.g. end user makes a call, my soft switch
 sets up the call between end-user and Level3, and then a re-invite
 happens which sends the audio from the end-user direct to the Level3 switch)

 How am I suppose to be able to record that call?
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[WISPA] VoIP CALEA Question

2012-03-01 Thread Matt Hoppes

We are considering doing some limited VoIP offerings to supplement our 
GSM offerings in certain situations.

A question that just arose, and I don't know the answer to is:

* Understanding that an interconnected VoIP carrier must be CALEA 
compliant and be able to record calls.

** How does this situation work if the audio stream does not pass 
through your soft-switch? (e.g. end user makes a call, my soft switch 
sets up the call between end-user and Level3, and then a re-invite 
happens which sends the audio from the end-user direct to the Level3 switch)

How am I suppose to be able to record that call?
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP CALEA Question

2012-03-01 Thread Dennis Burgess

Don't think the requirement is to record the call, but CALEA would
allow you to record, or capture the packets, that would include the
call. The LEA would be required to extract or retrieve the call from
the data.  Its more of a digital wire-tapping of packets, vs what kind
of packets.   So, you would capture as close to the target as
possible, so in our case, we would do it at the AP, so you would still
get all of the packets going to and from the client.  

I'm sure someone else who has read more of the code can answer other
questions.  

Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net 
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS: Second
Edition

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 7:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP CALEA Question

We are considering doing some limited VoIP offerings to supplement our
GSM offerings in certain situations.

A question that just arose, and I don't know the answer to is:

* Understanding that an interconnected VoIP carrier must be CALEA
compliant and be able to record calls.

** How does this situation work if the audio stream does not pass
through your soft-switch? (e.g. end user makes a call, my soft switch
sets up the call between end-user and Level3, and then a re-invite
happens which sends the audio from the end-user direct to the Level3
switch)

How am I suppose to be able to record that call?
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP CALEA Question

2012-03-01 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

Do a google search on Mikrotik CALEA, take a look at  The Mikrotik 
WIki as well as Butch's CALEA (MUM 2007) presentation.
This will give you an excellent idea on how to accomplish what you are 
asking for .

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet  Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, Fl 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net


On 3/1/2012 7:20 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 We are considering doing some limited VoIP offerings to supplement our
 GSM offerings in certain situations.

 A question that just arose, and I don't know the answer to is:

 * Understanding that an interconnected VoIP carrier must be CALEA
 compliant and be able to record calls.

 ** How does this situation work if the audio stream does not pass
 through your soft-switch? (e.g. end user makes a call, my soft switch
 sets up the call between end-user and Level3, and then a re-invite
 happens which sends the audio from the end-user direct to the Level3 switch)

 How am I suppose to be able to record that call?
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 Wireless@wispa.org
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP CALEA Question

2012-03-01 Thread Matt Hoppes

I'm obviously not asking the question properly.

I know how to do a CALEA capture for regular IP traffic.  My question is 
related to VoIP traffic in particular.

(e.g. Yes, if a customer has Vonage I obviously can't record the call... 
but I can capture the packets).

However, my understanding was always that if you provided VoIP from your 
network you had to be able to record both legs of the call so that the 
LEA can determine, for example, which side of the call a noise was heard on.


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 3/1/12 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
 Do a google search on Mikrotik CALEA, take a look at  The Mikrotik
 WIki as well as Butch's CALEA (MUM 2007) presentation.
 This will give you an excellent idea on how to accomplish what you are
 asking for .

 Regards.

 Faisal Imtiaz
 Snappy Internet   Telecom
 7266 SW 48 Street
 Miami, Fl 33155
 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net


 On 3/1/2012 7:20 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 We are considering doing some limited VoIP offerings to supplement our
 GSM offerings in certain situations.

 A question that just arose, and I don't know the answer to is:

 * Understanding that an interconnected VoIP carrier must be CALEA
 compliant and be able to record calls.

 ** How does this situation work if the audio stream does not pass
 through your soft-switch? (e.g. end user makes a call, my soft switch
 sets up the call between end-user and Level3, and then a re-invite
 happens which sends the audio from the end-user direct to the Level3 switch)

 How am I suppose to be able to record that call?
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP CALEA Question

2012-03-01 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181)

You can only record what hits your network.

If it's handed off to someone else they'll have to record it.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com
To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP CALEA Question

 I'm obviously not asking the question properly.

 I know how to do a CALEA capture for regular IP traffic.  My question is
 related to VoIP traffic in particular.

 (e.g. Yes, if a customer has Vonage I obviously can't record the call...
 but I can capture the packets).

 However, my understanding was always that if you provided VoIP from your
 network you had to be able to record both legs of the call so that the
 LEA can determine, for example, which side of the call a noise was heard 
 on.

 Matt Hoppes
 Director of Information Technology
 Indigo Wireless
 +1 (570) 723-7312

 On 3/1/12 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
 Do a google search on Mikrotik CALEA, take a look at  The Mikrotik
 WIki as well as Butch's CALEA (MUM 2007) presentation.
 This will give you an excellent idea on how to accomplish what you are
 asking for .

 Regards.

 Faisal Imtiaz
 Snappy Internet   Telecom
 7266 SW 48 Street
 Miami, Fl 33155
 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net

 On 3/1/2012 7:20 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 We are considering doing some limited VoIP offerings to supplement our
 GSM offerings in certain situations.

 A question that just arose, and I don't know the answer to is:

 * Understanding that an interconnected VoIP carrier must be CALEA
 compliant and be able to record calls.

 ** How does this situation work if the audio stream does not pass
 through your soft-switch? (e.g. end user makes a call, my soft switch
 sets up the call between end-user and Level3, and then a re-invite
 happens which sends the audio from the end-user direct to the Level3 
 switch)

 How am I suppose to be able to record that call?
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Re: [WISPA] Voip over fixed wireless ubnt

2011-07-29 Thread Scott Carullo

What will make the most difference is the firmware you run on them.  Each 
firmware they have released dramatically affects voip performance.


I don't have a good answer for your next question - just use the newest one 
and see how it goes for you, its as good as any of the past ones...  
(5.3.3)  I'm waiting to try a newer 5.5 beta but I haven't felt like 
walking the plank yet.


Scott Carullo

Technical Operations

855-FLSPEED x102



From: Zach Mann zma...@gmail.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 12:06 PM

To: wireless@wispa.org

Subject: [WISPA] Voip over fixed wireless ubnt

How many are sucessfully doing this for businesses and what details need to 
be looked at when making sure phones work ?

A SIP company will no longer partner with me as they have a sour taste from 
2 previous wisps that had high latency issues. 

-Zach 





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[WISPA] Voip over fixed wireless ubnt

2011-07-27 Thread Zach Mann

How many are sucessfully doing this for businesses and what details need to
be looked at when making sure phones work ?

A SIP company will no longer partner with me as they have a sour taste from
2 previous wisps that had high latency issues.

-Zach



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Re: [WISPA] Voip over fixed wireless ubnt

2011-07-27 Thread Mike Hammett

From my furthest device to my offnet, public server in Chicago...  6 
ms. I'm not sure it could be much better.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 7/27/2011 11:06 AM, Zach Mann wrote:


How many are sucessfully doing this for businesses and what details 
need to be looked at when making sure phones work ?


A SIP company will no longer partner with me as they have a sour taste 
from 2 previous wisps that had high latency issues.


-Zach





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Re: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

2011-05-24 Thread Eduardo

Is someone already using v6.5 in BreezeAcess VL radios?

I'm looking for some input about its performance.

Any comments?

Thanks,

Eduardo

  - Original Message - 
  From: Patrick Shoemaker 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 2:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch


  Seems like they're $10 each in low quantity, should have a quote in a few 
minutes.

   

  -- 
  Patrick Shoemaker

   

  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
  Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 14:32
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

   

  Are they really only $6-7?


  Regards,

  Chuck



  On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Patrick Shoemaker 
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com wrote:

  Found it:

  http://www.sittelletech.com/RPS3000.html

  -- 
  Patrick Shoemaker


  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker
  Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 23:46
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

  Someone posted on this or the Motorola list once about a physical switch 
device that installs at customer premises and aids in doing LNP with VoIP. A 
POTS line, the VoIP ATA, and the customer's phone equipment is wired to the 
switch. The switch connects the POTS line to the customer equipment until it 
gets a ring signal from the ATA, then the ATA is automatically connected to the 
customer equipment from that point forward. Makes LNP easier since no 
technician is required on site when the port actually occurs.

  Anyone have a link to the manufacturer and a suggestion for a distributor if 
it can't be purchased direct from the manufacturer in low quantities?

  --
  Patrick Shoemaker
  Vector Data Systems LLC
  shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
  office: (301) 358-1690 x36
  http://www.vectordatasystems.com



  

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[WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

Someone posted on this or the Motorola list once about a physical switch 
device that installs at customer premises and aids in doing LNP with 
VoIP. A POTS line, the VoIP ATA, and the customer's phone equipment is 
wired to the switch. The switch connects the POTS line to the customer 
equipment until it gets a ring signal from the ATA, then the ATA is 
automatically connected to the customer equipment from that point 
forward. Makes LNP easier since no technician is required on site when 
the port actually occurs.

Anyone have a link to the manufacturer and a suggestion for a 
distributor if it can't be purchased direct from the manufacturer in low 
quantities?

-- 
Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com




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Re: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

Found it:

http://www.sittelletech.com/RPS3000.html

-- 
Patrick Shoemaker

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Patrick Shoemaker
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 23:46
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

Someone posted on this or the Motorola list once about a physical switch device 
that installs at customer premises and aids in doing LNP with VoIP. A POTS 
line, the VoIP ATA, and the customer's phone equipment is wired to the switch. 
The switch connects the POTS line to the customer equipment until it gets a 
ring signal from the ATA, then the ATA is automatically connected to the 
customer equipment from that point forward. Makes LNP easier since no 
technician is required on site when the port actually occurs.

Anyone have a link to the manufacturer and a suggestion for a distributor if it 
can't be purchased direct from the manufacturer in low quantities?

--
Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com




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Re: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

2011-05-23 Thread Chuck Hogg

Are they really only $6-7?

Regards,

Chuck


On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Patrick Shoemaker 
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com wrote:

 Found it:

 http://www.sittelletech.com/RPS3000.html

 --
 Patrick Shoemaker

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker
 Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 23:46
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

 Someone posted on this or the Motorola list once about a physical switch
 device that installs at customer premises and aids in doing LNP with VoIP. A
 POTS line, the VoIP ATA, and the customer's phone equipment is wired to the
 switch. The switch connects the POTS line to the customer equipment until it
 gets a ring signal from the ATA, then the ATA is automatically connected to
 the customer equipment from that point forward. Makes LNP easier since no
 technician is required on site when the port actually occurs.

 Anyone have a link to the manufacturer and a suggestion for a distributor
 if it can't be purchased direct from the manufacturer in low quantities?

 --
 Patrick Shoemaker
 Vector Data Systems LLC
 shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
 office: (301) 358-1690 x36
 http://www.vectordatasystems.com




 
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

$10 from Vetco Supply, http://www.vetcosupply.comhttp://www.vetcosupply.com/

--
Patrick Shoemaker

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 14:32
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

Are they really only $6-7?

Regards,

Chuck

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Patrick Shoemaker 
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.commailto:shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com 
wrote:
Found it:

http://www.sittelletech.com/RPS3000.html

--
Patrick Shoemaker

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 23:46
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

Someone posted on this or the Motorola list once about a physical switch device 
that installs at customer premises and aids in doing LNP with VoIP. A POTS 
line, the VoIP ATA, and the customer's phone equipment is wired to the switch. 
The switch connects the POTS line to the customer equipment until it gets a 
ring signal from the ATA, then the ATA is automatically connected to the 
customer equipment from that point forward. Makes LNP easier since no 
technician is required on site when the port actually occurs.

Anyone have a link to the manufacturer and a suggestion for a distributor if it 
can't be purchased direct from the manufacturer in low quantities?

--
Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.commailto:shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36tel:%28301%29%20358-1690%20x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

Seems like they're $10 each in low quantity, should have a quote in a few 
minutes.

--
Patrick Shoemaker

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 14:32
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

Are they really only $6-7?

Regards,

Chuck

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Patrick Shoemaker 
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.commailto:shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com 
wrote:
Found it:

http://www.sittelletech.com/RPS3000.html

--
Patrick Shoemaker

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 23:46
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP LNP line switch

Someone posted on this or the Motorola list once about a physical switch device 
that installs at customer premises and aids in doing LNP with VoIP. A POTS 
line, the VoIP ATA, and the customer's phone equipment is wired to the switch. 
The switch connects the POTS line to the customer equipment until it gets a 
ring signal from the ATA, then the ATA is automatically connected to the 
customer equipment from that point forward. Makes LNP easier since no 
technician is required on site when the port actually occurs.

Anyone have a link to the manufacturer and a suggestion for a distributor if it 
can't be purchased direct from the manufacturer in low quantities?

--
Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.commailto:shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36tel:%28301%29%20358-1690%20x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com

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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

2010-11-30 Thread Leon D. Zetekoff


On 11/29/2010 9:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:


We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time 
finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup 
and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?



check out vitelity and voip.ms

Leon



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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

2010-11-30 Thread Leon D. Zetekoff

On 11/29/2010 10:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
 Well right.  There's 38746546574 VoIP carriers in Chicago's 358 LATA.
 38746546571 of them only cover the contiguous ATT portion.  Only say 3
 cover the remaining ATT and Frontier portions of that LATA.  Obviously
 all of these numbers were made up (other than the LATA number), but I
 think I got the point across.

 Most places where WISPs aren't already doing VoIP, VoIP coverage is
 difficult to obtain because of a lack of coverage with national
 providers.  Take Elizabeth, IL for example.  It hooks to the Freeport,
 IL tandem.  Level 3 does have a presence in Freeport, but last I
 checked, their VoIP coverage did not extend there.  However, local
 companies BitWise and Aero are both there.  Both will sell you VoIP
 service, and you'll be hard pressed to find either on an aggregator's
 network.
I live in an area where Frontier is the LEC not a BOC. Only a handful of 
carriers are in those rate centers. When I needed numbers I got local 
numbers from the Reading, PA rate center since that local calling area 
included the area I am in. When I moved within my same town a year ago I 
ported my number to Service Electric and get my local dial tone through 
them and haven't been happier plus I'm not constrained with the poor DSL 
at the new location. In any event, the key is if a provider doesn't 
service your late rate center look upstream for the next major one that 
includes you local calling area.

Leon



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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

2010-11-30 Thread Christopher Hair

Vox has reasonable rates if you are a WISPA member.  We have used them for
about 2 years without any issues.  Management  billing  is a bit cumbersome
if you offer anything other than unlimited services.

 

voxcorp.net

 

Chris

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Leon D. Zetekoff
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 6:58 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

 

On 11/29/2010 9:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote: 

We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time finding a
provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup and resell.
Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?

check out vitelity and voip.ms

Leon




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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

2010-11-30 Thread Alan Bryant

We actually had that happen with Verizon once. It took two months for
them to finally remove the number so that local customers could call.

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have ported lots of them in their clec area. It is always a problem. 
 Typical Att ports are 7-10 days. Centurytel is 90-120 days. Even when they 
 port they sometimes don't remove the numbers from their switch so any 
 centurytel customer that calls their numbers gets a ring with no answer. They 
 truly try everything possible to stop a port.

 Sent from my iPhone4

 On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:53 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:

 I know we ported a CenturyTel customer, I remember dealing with those
 idiots.  One of those ports that personify hell.

 You were probably better off.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Only place I couldn't port was a small town outside of Baton Rouge where 
 Centurytel was the ilec.

 Sent from my iPhone4

 On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
 wrote:

 For domestic we have...off hand...

 Level3, Global Crossing, Pac West, XO, Paetec, One Communications,
 Broadvox, Com Partners, Verizon

 Between these carriers we've had 1 number we couldn't port.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net 
 wrote:
 Well right.  There's 38746546574 VoIP carriers in Chicago's 358 LATA.
 38746546571 of them only cover the contiguous ATT portion.  Only say 3
 cover the remaining ATT and Frontier portions of that LATA.  Obviously
 all of these numbers were made up (other than the LATA number), but I
 think I got the point across.

 Most places where WISPs aren't already doing VoIP, VoIP coverage is
 difficult to obtain because of a lack of coverage with national
 providers.  Take Elizabeth, IL for example.  It hooks to the Freeport,
 IL tandem.  Level 3 does have a presence in Freeport, but last I
 checked, their VoIP coverage did not extend there.  However, local
 companies BitWise and Aero are both there.  Both will sell you VoIP
 service, and you'll be hard pressed to find either on an aggregator's
 network.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Our provider has a dozen carriers or more, I expect others are 
 comparable.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net 
  wrote:
 Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive ports
 from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch and 
 may
 even be more restrictive than that.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.

 On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
 wrote:
 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means 
 nothing.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:
 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

2010-11-30 Thread Josh Luthman

It happens automatically every 30-60 days for their DID inventory
process or something.  I do not have customers that will wait 30 days,
so I call in and make sure they clear it up.  Almost always fixed
within the day, maybe two.  I typically call it in in the morning and
before I leave for the day call the customer on our PSTN line.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Alan Bryant
a...@gtekcommunications.com wrote:
 We actually had that happen with Verizon once. It took two months for
 them to finally remove the number so that local customers could call.

 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have ported lots of them in their clec area. It is always a problem. 
 Typical Att ports are 7-10 days. Centurytel is 90-120 days. Even when they 
 port they sometimes don't remove the numbers from their switch so any 
 centurytel customer that calls their numbers gets a ring with no answer. 
 They truly try everything possible to stop a port.

 Sent from my iPhone4

 On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:53 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
 wrote:

 I know we ported a CenturyTel customer, I remember dealing with those
 idiots.  One of those ports that personify hell.

 You were probably better off.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Only place I couldn't port was a small town outside of Baton Rouge where 
 Centurytel was the ilec.

 Sent from my iPhone4

 On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
 wrote:

 For domestic we have...off hand...

 Level3, Global Crossing, Pac West, XO, Paetec, One Communications,
 Broadvox, Com Partners, Verizon

 Between these carriers we've had 1 number we couldn't port.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net 
 wrote:
 Well right.  There's 38746546574 VoIP carriers in Chicago's 358 LATA.
 38746546571 of them only cover the contiguous ATT portion.  Only say 3
 cover the remaining ATT and Frontier portions of that LATA.  Obviously
 all of these numbers were made up (other than the LATA number), but I
 think I got the point across.

 Most places where WISPs aren't already doing VoIP, VoIP coverage is
 difficult to obtain because of a lack of coverage with national
 providers.  Take Elizabeth, IL for example.  It hooks to the Freeport,
 IL tandem.  Level 3 does have a presence in Freeport, but last I
 checked, their VoIP coverage did not extend there.  However, local
 companies BitWise and Aero are both there.  Both will sell you VoIP
 service, and you'll be hard pressed to find either on an aggregator's
 network.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Our provider has a dozen carriers or more, I expect others are 
 comparable.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Mike 
 Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  wrote:
 Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive 
 ports
 from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch and 
 may
 even be more restrictive than that.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.

 On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
 wrote:
 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means 
 nothing.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:
 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can 
 markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
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 Archives:

Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

2010-11-30 Thread Kristian Hoffmann

With VOX, does your VoIP traffic traverse the Internet, or do/can you
get a cross connect with VOX?

-Kristian

On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 14:17 -0500, Josh Luthman wrote:
 It happens automatically every 30-60 days for their DID inventory
 process or something.  I do not have customers that will wait 30 days,
 so I call in and make sure they clear it up.  Almost always fixed
 within the day, maybe two.  I typically call it in in the morning and
 before I leave for the day call the customer on our PSTN line.
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
 On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Alan Bryant
 a...@gtekcommunications.com wrote:
  We actually had that happen with Verizon once. It took two months for
  them to finally remove the number so that local customers could call.
 
  On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote:
  I have ported lots of them in their clec area. It is always a problem. 
  Typical Att ports are 7-10 days. Centurytel is 90-120 days. Even when they 
  port they sometimes don't remove the numbers from their switch so any 
  centurytel customer that calls their numbers gets a ring with no answer. 
  They truly try everything possible to stop a port.
 
  Sent from my iPhone4
 
  On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:53 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
  wrote:
 
  I know we ported a CenturyTel customer, I remember dealing with those
  idiots.  One of those ports that personify hell.
 
  You were probably better off.
 
  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
  On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote:
  Only place I couldn't port was a small town outside of Baton Rouge where 
  Centurytel was the ilec.
 
  Sent from my iPhone4
 
  On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
  wrote:
 
  For domestic we have...off hand...
 
  Level3, Global Crossing, Pac West, XO, Paetec, One Communications,
  Broadvox, Com Partners, Verizon
 
  Between these carriers we've had 1 number we couldn't port.
 
  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
  On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Mike Hammett 
  wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
  Well right.  There's 38746546574 VoIP carriers in Chicago's 358 LATA.
  38746546571 of them only cover the contiguous ATT portion.  Only say 3
  cover the remaining ATT and Frontier portions of that LATA.  Obviously
  all of these numbers were made up (other than the LATA number), but I
  think I got the point across.
 
  Most places where WISPs aren't already doing VoIP, VoIP coverage is
  difficult to obtain because of a lack of coverage with national
  providers.  Take Elizabeth, IL for example.  It hooks to the Freeport,
  IL tandem.  Level 3 does have a presence in Freeport, but last I
  checked, their VoIP coverage did not extend there.  However, local
  companies BitWise and Aero are both there.  Both will sell you VoIP
  service, and you'll be hard pressed to find either on an aggregator's
  network.
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
  On 11/29/2010 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
  Our provider has a dozen carriers or more, I expect others are 
  comparable.
 
  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
  On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Mike 
  Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  wrote:
  Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive 
  ports
  from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch 
  and may
  even be more restrictive than that.
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
  On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 
  Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.
 
  On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
  wrote:
  The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality 
  of
  the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means 
  nothing.
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
  On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:
  We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
  finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can 
  markup
  and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?
 
 
 
 
 
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 
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[WISPA] VOIP Provider

2010-11-29 Thread Liam Cummings

We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time finding
a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup and
resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?




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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

We make something like 30 to 40 percent.  Happy with our service.
On Nov 29, 2010 9:29 PM, Liam Cummings lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com
wrote:
 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time finding
 a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup and
 resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?




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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

VOX.  

Sent from my iPhone4

On Nov 29, 2010, at 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings lcummi...@datacomspecialists.com 
wrote:

 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time finding a 
 provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup and resell. 
 Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?
 
 
 
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of 
the service) is local numbers.  Everything else relatively means nothing.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:


We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time 
finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup 
and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?






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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.
On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means nothing.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:

 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?






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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

I think I have something like 10 numbers that weren't ported. Everything we do 
is port. 

Sent from my iPhone4

On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:

 Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.
 
 On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
  The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of 
  the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means nothing.
  
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
  
  
  
  On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:
 
  We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time 
  finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup 
  and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?
 
 
 
 
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
  
 
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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive ports 
from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch and 
may even be more restrictive than that.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.

On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net 
mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:

 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means nothing.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:

 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?




 


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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

Our provider has a dozen carriers or more, I expect others are comparable.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
 Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive ports
 from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch and may
 even be more restrictive than that.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.

 On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means nothing.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:

 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?





 
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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

Well right.  There's 38746546574 VoIP carriers in Chicago's 358 LATA.  
38746546571 of them only cover the contiguous ATT portion.  Only say 3 
cover the remaining ATT and Frontier portions of that LATA.  Obviously 
all of these numbers were made up (other than the LATA number), but I 
think I got the point across.

Most places where WISPs aren't already doing VoIP, VoIP coverage is 
difficult to obtain because of a lack of coverage with national 
providers.  Take Elizabeth, IL for example.  It hooks to the Freeport, 
IL tandem.  Level 3 does have a presence in Freeport, but last I 
checked, their VoIP coverage did not extend there.  However, local 
companies BitWise and Aero are both there.  Both will sell you VoIP 
service, and you'll be hard pressed to find either on an aggregator's 
network.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 11/29/2010 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Our provider has a dozen carriers or more, I expect others are comparable.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
 wrote:
 Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive ports
 from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch and may
 even be more restrictive than that.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.

 On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  wrote:
 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means nothing.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:
 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?





 
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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

For domestic we have...off hand...

Level3, Global Crossing, Pac West, XO, Paetec, One Communications,
Broadvox, Com Partners, Verizon

Between these carriers we've had 1 number we couldn't port.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
 Well right.  There's 38746546574 VoIP carriers in Chicago's 358 LATA.
 38746546571 of them only cover the contiguous ATT portion.  Only say 3
 cover the remaining ATT and Frontier portions of that LATA.  Obviously
 all of these numbers were made up (other than the LATA number), but I
 think I got the point across.

 Most places where WISPs aren't already doing VoIP, VoIP coverage is
 difficult to obtain because of a lack of coverage with national
 providers.  Take Elizabeth, IL for example.  It hooks to the Freeport,
 IL tandem.  Level 3 does have a presence in Freeport, but last I
 checked, their VoIP coverage did not extend there.  However, local
 companies BitWise and Aero are both there.  Both will sell you VoIP
 service, and you'll be hard pressed to find either on an aggregator's
 network.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Our provider has a dozen carriers or more, I expect others are comparable.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
 wrote:
 Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive ports
 from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch and may
 even be more restrictive than that.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.

 On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  wrote:
 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means nothing.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:
 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?





 
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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

Only place I couldn't port was a small town outside of Baton Rouge where 
Centurytel was the ilec. 

Sent from my iPhone4

On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:

 For domestic we have...off hand...
 
 Level3, Global Crossing, Pac West, XO, Paetec, One Communications,
 Broadvox, Com Partners, Verizon
 
 Between these carriers we've had 1 number we couldn't port.
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net 
 wrote:
 Well right.  There's 38746546574 VoIP carriers in Chicago's 358 LATA.
 38746546571 of them only cover the contiguous ATT portion.  Only say 3
 cover the remaining ATT and Frontier portions of that LATA.  Obviously
 all of these numbers were made up (other than the LATA number), but I
 think I got the point across.
 
 Most places where WISPs aren't already doing VoIP, VoIP coverage is
 difficult to obtain because of a lack of coverage with national
 providers.  Take Elizabeth, IL for example.  It hooks to the Freeport,
 IL tandem.  Level 3 does have a presence in Freeport, but last I
 checked, their VoIP coverage did not extend there.  However, local
 companies BitWise and Aero are both there.  Both will sell you VoIP
 service, and you'll be hard pressed to find either on an aggregator's
 network.
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 On 11/29/2010 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Our provider has a dozen carriers or more, I expect others are comparable.
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
 wrote:
 Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive ports
 from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch and may
 even be more restrictive than that.
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 
 Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.
 
 On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  wrote:
 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means nothing.
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:
 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

I know we ported a CenturyTel customer, I remember dealing with those
idiots.  One of those ports that personify hell.

You were probably better off.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Only place I couldn't port was a small town outside of Baton Rouge where 
 Centurytel was the ilec.

 Sent from my iPhone4

 On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:

 For domestic we have...off hand...

 Level3, Global Crossing, Pac West, XO, Paetec, One Communications,
 Broadvox, Com Partners, Verizon

 Between these carriers we've had 1 number we couldn't port.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net 
 wrote:
 Well right.  There's 38746546574 VoIP carriers in Chicago's 358 LATA.
 38746546571 of them only cover the contiguous ATT portion.  Only say 3
 cover the remaining ATT and Frontier portions of that LATA.  Obviously
 all of these numbers were made up (other than the LATA number), but I
 think I got the point across.

 Most places where WISPs aren't already doing VoIP, VoIP coverage is
 difficult to obtain because of a lack of coverage with national
 providers.  Take Elizabeth, IL for example.  It hooks to the Freeport,
 IL tandem.  Level 3 does have a presence in Freeport, but last I
 checked, their VoIP coverage did not extend there.  However, local
 companies BitWise and Aero are both there.  Both will sell you VoIP
 service, and you'll be hard pressed to find either on an aggregator's
 network.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Our provider has a dozen carriers or more, I expect others are comparable.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
 wrote:
 Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive ports
 from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch and may
 even be more restrictive than that.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.

 On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  wrote:
 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means nothing.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:
 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?





 
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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

I have ported lots of them in their clec area. It is always a problem. Typical 
Att ports are 7-10 days. Centurytel is 90-120 days. Even when they port they 
sometimes don't remove the numbers from their switch so any centurytel customer 
that calls their numbers gets a ring with no answer. They truly try everything 
possible to stop a port. 

Sent from my iPhone4

On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:53 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:

 I know we ported a CenturyTel customer, I remember dealing with those
 idiots.  One of those ports that personify hell.
 
 You were probably better off.
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Only place I couldn't port was a small town outside of Baton Rouge where 
 Centurytel was the ilec.
 
 Sent from my iPhone4
 
 On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
 wrote:
 
 For domestic we have...off hand...
 
 Level3, Global Crossing, Pac West, XO, Paetec, One Communications,
 Broadvox, Com Partners, Verizon
 
 Between these carriers we've had 1 number we couldn't port.
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net 
 wrote:
 Well right.  There's 38746546574 VoIP carriers in Chicago's 358 LATA.
 38746546571 of them only cover the contiguous ATT portion.  Only say 3
 cover the remaining ATT and Frontier portions of that LATA.  Obviously
 all of these numbers were made up (other than the LATA number), but I
 think I got the point across.
 
 Most places where WISPs aren't already doing VoIP, VoIP coverage is
 difficult to obtain because of a lack of coverage with national
 providers.  Take Elizabeth, IL for example.  It hooks to the Freeport,
 IL tandem.  Level 3 does have a presence in Freeport, but last I
 checked, their VoIP coverage did not extend there.  However, local
 companies BitWise and Aero are both there.  Both will sell you VoIP
 service, and you'll be hard pressed to find either on an aggregator's
 network.
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 On 11/29/2010 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Our provider has a dozen carriers or more, I expect others are comparable.
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
 wrote:
 Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive ports
 from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch and may
 even be more restrictive than that.
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 
 Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.
 
 On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
 wrote:
 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means nothing.
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:
 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider

Ohio is a fairly well populated state.  (You may think not, but just 
wait until the next election to see how big Ohio is.)  More than likely 
multiple of those carriers service those areas.  I'm just trying to say 
that most WISPs that don't already have VoIP live areas that I guarantee 
you XO and Global Crossing couldn't find on a map with Google's help.

I thought Pac West folded when they ran out of money, but I guess not.  
I haven't looked at their penetration since then because of this.

Verizon depends on which part of the house is selling it this time.  
Verizon local doesn't really service much of anything after splitting 
Frontier and their New England businesses, and they've never really been 
fond of the MCI VoIP product.

etc., etc.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 11/29/2010 9:43 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 For domestic we have...off hand...

 Level3, Global Crossing, Pac West, XO, Paetec, One Communications,
 Broadvox, Com Partners, Verizon

 Between these carriers we've had 1 number we couldn't port.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net  
 wrote:
 Well right.  There's 38746546574 VoIP carriers in Chicago's 358 LATA.
 38746546571 of them only cover the contiguous ATT portion.  Only say 3
 cover the remaining ATT and Frontier portions of that LATA.  Obviously
 all of these numbers were made up (other than the LATA number), but I
 think I got the point across.

 Most places where WISPs aren't already doing VoIP, VoIP coverage is
 difficult to obtain because of a lack of coverage with national
 providers.  Take Elizabeth, IL for example.  It hooks to the Freeport,
 IL tandem.  Level 3 does have a presence in Freeport, but last I
 checked, their VoIP coverage did not extend there.  However, local
 companies BitWise and Aero are both there.  Both will sell you VoIP
 service, and you'll be hard pressed to find either on an aggregator's
 network.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Our provider has a dozen carriers or more, I expect others are comparable.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net
 wrote:
 Porting only works if the receiving LEC has the ability to receive ports
 from that rate center.  They have to be on the same tandem switch and may
 even be more restrictive than that.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 On 11/29/2010 9:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Somewhere at least 90% of out customers ported their numbers.

 On Nov 29, 2010 10:12 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net
 wrote:
 The second most important thing about VoIP (aside from the quality of
 the service) is local numbers. Everything else relatively means nothing.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 11/29/2010 8:07 PM, Liam Cummings wrote:
 We are looking to start offering VOIP but are having a hard time
 finding a provider that offers a service at a price that we can markup
 and resell. Anyone know of a good VOIP provider?





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

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Re: [WISPA] VOIP Provider