Re: [WISPA] FCC Says Fixed Wireless Only Delivers 1 Mbps

[Robert West]

Maybe 5 years ago.  Not now.  How old is this info they are getting  Not
a surprise though.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:01 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Says Fixed Wireless Only Delivers 1 Mbps

Hmm, so I guess my 10Mbps down and 8mbps up wireless links (yes, to
customers) don't count  

My guess, though, is that they're pulling this data from the 477 and making
assumptions based on that.  Most of our customers are 1.5Mbps or less
customers so looking at the "raw" 477 data then yes, it would appear that we
may not be doing much more than the 1.5meg.  

Interesting...


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Lists
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:54 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] FCC Says Fixed Wireless Only Delivers 1 Mbps

This really ticks me off:

 

"Wireless broadband Internet access services offered over fixed networks
allow consumers to access the Internet from a fixed point while stationary

 and often require a direct line-of-sight between the wireless transmitter
and receiver. These services have been offered using both licensed spectrum 

and unlicensed devices. For example, thousands of small Wireless Internet
Services Providers (WISPs) provide such wireless broadband at speeds of 

around one Mbps using unlicensed devices, often in rural areas not served by
cable or wireline broadband networks." 

http://www.broadband.gov/broadband_types.html 

 

I talked to them at the NTIA workshop in Memphis about this, but they are
still defaming our industry.

I have emailed them at the broadband.gov site and think it is a good idea
that they hear from more of us.

 

Thanks!

Victoria Proffer  - President/CEO 

StLouisBroadband.com    

  ShowMeBroadband.com 

Rural Missouri Wireless Project.

314.974.5600 * Fax 573.747.4756

Follow us on Twitter.com @stlbroadband

SBA Certified WOSB

STLBBLogo

 

 

 

 






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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[Robert West]

The 2" would be good for that, it's a big solid item.  But the setup this
guy uses is 1.25" with a 1" inside of it going up 8 feet.  A 2" up that high
would be strong enough I suspect but a 1" would give out quickly I bet.
Would work well with a NS or something small, like a yagi or a small grid.




-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Paul Rice
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

YMMV, but I've had them out in high winds in excess of 40 miles an hour with

2 parbolics on 1 10 foot section of 2 inch EMT.
But it is soft, so you might want to get heavier pipe for piece of mind

------
From: "Robert West" 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:27 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

> My competitor here uses 1.25" EMT conduit from Home Depot, 13 bucks for a
> 10' section.  He takes them to the local muffler shop and has them bend 
> them
> with a block U shape so that he can mount them to the side of the house
> under the peak and the bend allows him to swing the mount to the eave as
> well for stability.  For additional height he inserts the next smaller 
> size
> of EMT 1 to 2 feet inside the 1.25" and puts a couple of 1/4" bolts to
> attach them together.  He can add another 8 or 9 feet this way.  BUT, EMT 
> is
> a soft allow, it's made to bend easily so I certainly wouldn't want to 
> trust
> it with anything with a large wind load very high up.
>
> I haven't tried it but he says it works perfect for him and his guys 
> install
> a lot faster now.
>
> Bob-
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:49 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
>
> As we get into more and more installs, we are discovering installations
> where we just need a little more height, 5-10 ft. or so. Currently the
> majority of our installs are roof mount via a dish type screw in mount,
> or antenna tower mount. I'm looking for suggestions on additional
> mounting options, specifically we would like to be able to extend off
> the roof another 5-20ft if possible with some sort of simple/economical
> extension that will remain stable into the future.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
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> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [WISPA] FCC Says Fixed Wireless Only Delivers 1 Mbps

[Robert West]

So we should provide old internet.  "Internet Classic".  

Sounds good.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of St. Louis Broadband
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:36 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Says Fixed Wireless Only Delivers 1 Mbps

Bingo!  When I asked them about this at the NTIA Memphis meeting, they
acknowledged that this is old data.

Shouldn't WISPA get involved here?

I have written my response to them.

Victoria

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:29 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Says Fixed Wireless Only Delivers 1 Mbps

Maybe 5 years ago.  Not now.  How old is this info they are getting  Not
a surprise though.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:01 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Says Fixed Wireless Only Delivers 1 Mbps

Hmm, so I guess my 10Mbps down and 8mbps up wireless links (yes, to
customers) don't count  

My guess, though, is that they're pulling this data from the 477 and making
assumptions based on that.  Most of our customers are 1.5Mbps or less
customers so looking at the "raw" 477 data then yes, it would appear that we
may not be doing much more than the 1.5meg.  

Interesting...


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Lists
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:54 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] FCC Says Fixed Wireless Only Delivers 1 Mbps

This really ticks me off:

 

"Wireless broadband Internet access services offered over fixed networks
allow consumers to access the Internet from a fixed point while stationary

 and often require a direct line-of-sight between the wireless transmitter
and receiver. These services have been offered using both licensed spectrum 

and unlicensed devices. For example, thousands of small Wireless Internet
Services Providers (WISPs) provide such wireless broadband at speeds of 

around one Mbps using unlicensed devices, often in rural areas not served by
cable or wireline broadband networks." 

http://www.broadband.gov/broadband_types.html 

 

I talked to them at the NTIA workshop in Memphis about this, but they are
still defaming our industry.

I have emailed them at the broadband.gov site and think it is a good idea
that they hear from more of us.

 

Thanks!

Victoria Proffer  - President/CEO 

StLouisBroadband.com <http://stlbroadband.com/>   

 <http://showmebroadband.com/> ShowMeBroadband.com 

Rural Missouri Wireless Project.

314.974.5600 * Fax 573.747.4756

Follow us on Twitter.com @stlbroadband

SBA Certified WOSB

STLBBLogo

 

 

 

 






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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[Robert West]

No, it's like this crude ASCII rendering.
He puts a U clamp on the bottom and on the eave.

I
I
I
I
I
I
I
--I
I
I
I
---
I
I
I
I   

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:38 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

Robert,

Your competitor's U shaped EMT - does it look like my painting?

http://i27.tinypic.com/30woz1k.jpg

Note - IANAA (I am not an artist)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> My competitor here uses 1.25" EMT conduit from Home Depot, 13 bucks for a
> 10' section.  He takes them to the local muffler shop and has them bend
> them
> with a block U shape so that he can mount them to the side of the house
> under the peak and the bend allows him to swing the mount to the eave as
> well for stability.  For additional height he inserts the next smaller
size
> of EMT 1 to 2 feet inside the 1.25" and puts a couple of 1/4" bolts to
> attach them together.  He can add another 8 or 9 feet this way.  BUT, EMT
> is
> a soft allow, it's made to bend easily so I certainly wouldn't want to
> trust
> it with anything with a large wind load very high up.
>
> I haven't tried it but he says it works perfect for him and his guys
> install
> a lot faster now.
>
> Bob-
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:49 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
>
> As we get into more and more installs, we are discovering installations
> where we just need a little more height, 5-10 ft. or so. Currently the
> majority of our installs are roof mount via a dish type screw in mount,
> or antenna tower mount. I'm looking for suggestions on additional
> mounting options, specifically we would like to be able to extend off
> the roof another 5-20ft if possible with some sort of simple/economical
> extension that will remain stable into the future.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>


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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[Robert West]

[IMG]http://i28.tinypic.com/fnsxl.jpg[/IMG]

Another crude rendering.

The bottom is where he mounts the pipe to the side of the house.  Then it
goes up and the bend allows it to go out and up over the eave and then back
into over the roof.  If the bend is too far out, they swing the assembly in
towards the eave and mount to that as well.  

He said he has the muffler shop bend it just like regular muffler pipe, the
alloy is similar as in it's pretty soft and easy to bend.  So it does a 90
degree, then up and a 90 degree back and up again.  Looked darned simple and
he buys the EMT for 13 bucks and pays the muffler guy something like 20
bucks to do 10 or 20 of them.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

I think the bottom horizontal line is the base of the standard powmount -
but the top horizontal line is where I am confused.  You said the muffler
shop bends it, does it make a shift like a traditional muffler? 90 turn?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Robert West
wrote:

> No, it's like this crude ASCII rendering.
> He puts a U clamp on the bottom and on the eave.
>
> I
> I
> I
> I
> I
> I
> I
> --I
>I
>I
>I
> ---
> I
> I
> I
> I
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:38 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
>
> Robert,
>
> Your competitor's U shaped EMT - does it look like my painting?
>
> http://i27.tinypic.com/30woz1k.jpg
>
> Note - IANAA (I am not an artist)
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > My competitor here uses 1.25" EMT conduit from Home Depot, 13 bucks for
a
> > 10' section.  He takes them to the local muffler shop and has them bend
> > them
> > with a block U shape so that he can mount them to the side of the house
> > under the peak and the bend allows him to swing the mount to the eave as
> > well for stability.  For additional height he inserts the next smaller
> size
> > of EMT 1 to 2 feet inside the 1.25" and puts a couple of 1/4" bolts to
> > attach them together.  He can add another 8 or 9 feet this way.  BUT,
EMT
> > is
> > a soft allow, it's made to bend easily so I certainly wouldn't want to
> > trust
> > it with anything with a large wind load very high up.
> >
> > I haven't tried it but he says it works perfect for him and his guys
> > install
> > a lot faster now.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Michael Baird
> > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:49 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
> >
> > As we get into more and more installs, we are discovering installations
> > where we just need a little more height, 5-10 ft. or so. Currently the
> > majority of our installs are roof mount via a dish type screw in mount,
> > or antenna tower mount. I'm looking for suggestions on additional
> > mounting options, specifically we would like to be able to extend off
> > the roof another 5-20ft if possible with some sort of simple/economical
> > extension that will remain stable into the future.
> >
> > Regards
> > Michael Baird
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
>

> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[Robert West]

Well, the story on this is, the competitor dude, he bought the wisp from a
friend of mine who was near death from cancer and he bought it to make cash,
didn't know a thing about wifi or networking.  But the 2 motivators for him
was, his guys were using 1/2" galvanized water pipe and fittings to make up
mounts for whatever situation they were in..  Dunno how that was
ever gonna work right and it never did.  When the wind blew these things
would move about on the fittings and the guys would take forever making up
some bracket out of legos, basically.  The second motivation is that the new
owner of the wisp is an insurance agent and won't allow roof penetration,
which is a good idea for anyone.  So somehow he came up with this pipe bent
at the muffler shop idea and I have to say, it looks like a winner.  Cheap,
cheap, cheap and from what the guys say, they can have the bracket mounted
in a matter of minutes.

I'll see if I can locate one or two installs and get some pics.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Profito
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:28 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

Robert, 
Not a bad idea at all. It would cut out a tripod and possible roof damage
liability. 
That 'u' part, what is the apx depth of the 'u'? 18" 24"? and 10-12"
vertically? 
If you are running around in the next few days, can you shoot a photo or two
of a representative sample?
I do like the idea of rolling it to the side and lagging it to the eve.
Also, when extending it, you could add two pieces of EMT at a 45's, similar
to a overhead power drop.


Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
cprof...@cv-access.com 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California




-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:27 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

My competitor here uses 1.25" EMT conduit from Home Depot, 13 bucks for a
10' section.  He takes them to the local muffler shop and has them bend them
with a block U shape so that he can mount them to the side of the house
under the peak and the bend allows him to swing the mount to the eave as
well for stability.  For additional height he inserts the next smaller size
of EMT 1 to 2 feet inside the 1.25" and puts a couple of 1/4" bolts to
attach them together.  He can add another 8 or 9 feet this way.  BUT, EMT is
a soft allow, it's made to bend easily so I certainly wouldn't want to trust
it with anything with a large wind load very high up.  

I haven't tried it but he says it works perfect for him and his guys install
a lot faster now.

Bob-

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

As we get into more and more installs, we are discovering installations 
where we just need a little more height, 5-10 ft. or so. Currently the 
majority of our installs are roof mount via a dish type screw in mount, 
or antenna tower mount. I'm looking for suggestions on additional 
mounting options, specifically we would like to be able to extend off 
the roof another 5-20ft if possible with some sort of simple/economical 
extension that will remain stable into the future.

Regards
Michael Baird




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-

Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[Robert West]

I'm not sure.  I'm no engineer, post that on the Ham list and you'll get 15
opinions with graphs and studies from 1968 proving that you don't need to
mount it on the roof at all.  For me, it just looks more stable since it
comes out then returns to the same plane, possibly putting less stress on
the mount.  Dunno.  I don't see where it would be any less effective either
way.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of J. Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

Obviously, my ASCII art skills are lacking. :) You are correct.

Josh Luthman wrote:
> I think you mean straight up from the j-arm.  ASCII art didn't turn
> out from what I see.
>
> On 8/27/09, J. Vogel  wrote:
>   
>> I don't understand the need for the full "U" bend. Why wouldn't it work
>> going straight up from the facia/gable mount instead of continuing the
>> bend to get back over the roof? I would think that it would be stronger
>> and more rigid if the bends were all between the mounting points.
>> Perhaps I am missing something...
>>
>> ASCII art of what I am thinking below.
>>
>>
>>   |
>>   |
>>   |
>>   |
>>   |
>>   |
>>   |
>>___/
>>  /
>> |
>> |
>>
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, the story on this is, the competitor dude, he bought the wisp from
a
>>> friend of mine who was near death from cancer and he bought it to make
>>> cash,
>>> didn't know a thing about wifi or networking.  But the 2 motivators for
>>> him
>>> was, his guys were using 1/2" galvanized water pipe and fittings to make
>>> up
>>> mounts for whatever situation they were in..  Dunno how that was
>>> ever gonna work right and it never did.  When the wind blew these things
>>> would move about on the fittings and the guys would take forever making
up
>>> some bracket out of legos, basically.  The second motivation is that the
>>> new
>>> owner of the wisp is an insurance agent and won't allow roof
penetration,
>>> which is a good idea for anyone.  So somehow he came up with this pipe
>>> bent
>>> at the muffler shop idea and I have to say, it looks like a winner.
>>> Cheap,
>>> cheap, cheap and from what the guys say, they can have the bracket
mounted
>>> in a matter of minutes.
>>>
>>> I'll see if I can locate one or two installs and get some pics.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> --
>>
>> John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
>> http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
>> Vogel Enterprises LLC
>> Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas
>>
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>


>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> 
>
>
>   




-- 

John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas





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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[Robert West]

I have a big problem with making holes in a roof. I just don’t!

Reason is, any drip or drop then becomes the internet guys fault no matter
if the roof is 40 years old and missing half the shingles already.  Too many
people out to "gotcha".  And the ones who ask to see our liability insurance
before we do anything...  Red flags!  They turn out to be nightmares, we
get permission in writing from those folks for every hole drilled.

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:21 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

Tripods like roof hole making tripods?

On 8/27/09, Brian Rohrbacher  wrote:
> I guess I'm just old fashioned using tripods and 10 ft masts.  Channel
> master.  Tripods are $18 and masts are $11.  We charge $30 for the tripods
> and $15 for 10ft mast including install.
>
> Brian
>
> Scott Reed wrote:
>>
>> 4" length of strut at the peak.
>> 5' length of strut down where ever it falls on the eaves.
>> Strut pipe clamp to fit pipe.
>>
>> /\
>>/-\
>>  / \
>>/ \
>>  /\
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 'splain please!  How is that configured? Thanks.
>>>
>>> At 10:50 AM 8/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>
>>>

 ... We now mount 2 pieces of 1-5/8"
 Unistrut with 1/4" lags and clamp the pipe to it.


>>>
>>>
>>>


>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>


>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.70/2329 - Release Date:
>>> 08/27/09 08:11:00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>


-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle




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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[Robert West]

When the house finally falls down, the chimney and mount will still be
standing!



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

Looks like a mount designed by an under-confident Civil Engineer.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "ralph" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:25:55 -0400

>This is a weird looking animal!  A chimney mount for a dish with 5 straps.
>http://www.ronard.com/4424.html
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Randy Cosby
>Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:51 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
>
>http://www.ronard.com/730731.html
>
>A bit more expensive / sturdy / configurable...
>
>Probably overkill.
>
>Ronard makes really good stuff.
>
>
>Robert West wrote:
>> [IMG]http://i28.tinypic.com/fnsxl.jpg[/IMG]
>>
>> Another crude rendering.
>>
>> The bottom is where he mounts the pipe to the side of the house.  Then it
>> goes up and the bend allows it to go out and up over the eave and then
>back
>> into over the roof.  If the bend is too far out, they swing the assembly
>in
>> towards the eave and mount to that as well.  
>>
>> He said he has the muffler shop bend it just like regular muffler pipe,
>the
>> alloy is similar as in it's pretty soft and easy to bend.  So it does a
90
>> degree, then up and a 90 degree back and up again.  Looked darned simple
>and
>> he buys the EMT for 13 bucks and pays the muffler guy something like 20
>> bucks to do 10 or 20 of them.  
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:06 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
>>
>> I think the bottom horizontal line is the base of the standard powmount -
>> but the top horizontal line is where I am confused.  You said the muffler
>> shop bends it, does it make a shift like a traditional muffler? 90 turn?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Robert West
>> wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> No, it's like this crude ASCII rendering.
>>> He puts a U clamp on the bottom and on the eave.
>>>
>>> I
>>> I
>>> I
>>> I
>>> I
>>> I
>>> I
>>> --I
>>>I
>>>I
>>>I
>>> ---
>>> I
>>> I
>>> I
>>> I
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:38 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
>>>
>>> Robert,
>>>
>>> Your competitor's U shaped EMT - does it look like my painting?
>>>
>>> http://i27.tinypic.com/30woz1k.jpg
>>>
>>> Note - IANAA (I am not an artist)
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>>> improbable, must be the truth."
>>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Robert West
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>> My competitor here uses 1.25" EMT conduit from Home Depot, 13 bucks for
>>>>   
>> a
>>   
>>>> 10' section.  He takes them to the local muffler shop and has them bend
>>>> them
>>>> with a block U shape so that he can mount them to the side of the house
>>>> under the peak and the bend allows him to swing the mount to the eave
as
>>>> well for stability.  For additional height he inserts the next smaller
>>>

Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[Robert West]

I use lead anchors in the mortar joints because it doesn’t stain and is easy
to remove unlike an epoxy based fastener.  But the mortar has to be darned
solid and in good shape.  And even with that, ask the customer if it's REAL
brick or brick veneer.   

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

What's so bad about brick?  I would imagine there is lags made for it
(not the mortor).  've always used the saufet ?sp? And gutter to
tuck/hide the cable so there is no damage.

On 8/28/09, Steve Barnes  wrote:
> I agree,  I will never again install on a roof.  That cost me money once,
> not again.  Can't even tell you how many homeowners have thanked us for
not
> installing on the roof.  They hate their satellite dish being up there and
> are willing to pay extra for anything to keep it off the roof.  What I
hate
> is brick homes. No way to mount no way to run cable and for some reason
> those are always the people who have their computers on an inside wall,
are
> tighter than ticks and don't want to pay for anything but the standard
> install.
>
> Steve Barnes
> Manager
> PCS-WIN
> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>
> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience
of
> trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition
> inspired, and success achieved.
> - Helen Keller
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:02 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
>
> I have a big problem with making holes in a roof. I just don't!
>
> Reason is, any drip or drop then becomes the internet guys fault no matter
> if the roof is 40 years old and missing half the shingles already.  Too
many
> people out to "gotcha".  And the ones who ask to see our liability
insurance
> before we do anything...  Red flags!  They turn out to be nightmares,
we
> get permission in writing from those folks for every hole drilled.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
>
> Tripods like roof hole making tripods?
>
> On 8/27/09, Brian Rohrbacher  wrote:
>> I guess I'm just old fashioned using tripods and 10 ft masts.  Channel
>> master.  Tripods are $18 and masts are $11.  We charge $30 for the
tripods
>> and $15 for 10ft mast including install.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> Scott Reed wrote:
>>>
>>> 4" length of strut at the peak.
>>> 5' length of strut down where ever it falls on the eaves.
>>> Strut pipe clamp to fit pipe.
>>>
>>> /\
>>>/-\
>>>  / \
>>>/ \
>>>  /\
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 'splain please!  How is that configured? Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> At 10:50 AM 8/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ... We now mount 2 pieces of 1-5/8"
>>>>> Unistrut with 1/4" lags and clamp the pipe to it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>

> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>
>

> 
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>>

>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.70/2329 - Release Date:
>>>> 08/27/09 08:11:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
&

Re: [WISPA] Bill proposed to give President Emergencey Contol of Interent

[Robert West]

I knew it!  That "Geek Squad" really IS a secret arm of the government!



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of jp
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:04 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bill proposed to give President Emergencey Contol of
Interent

No, you'll have some geek with a badge threatening to shut your WISP 
down, just for "national security practice" because you didn't stoke his 
ego. Single guys who don't mind traveling and couldn't hold a steady job 
in the business or academic world, or failed the skills tests to be a 
traditional representative of law enforcement.

Think TSA for the Internet instead of for airports. 

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 01:52:08PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote:
> I can see it now, they will respond with free anti-virus software being
> bundled with those AOL disks.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:47 PM, St. Louis Broadband
 > wrote:
> 
> > "The new version would allow the president to "declare a cybersecurity
> > emergency" relating to "non-governmental" computer networks and do
what's
> > necessary to respond to the threat. Other sections of the proposal
include
> > a
> > federal certification program for "cybersecurity professionals," and a
> > requirement that certain computer systems and networks in the private
> > sector
> > be managed by people who have been awarded that license."
> >
> > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html
> >
> >
> > Victoria Proffer
> > www.StLouisBroadband.com
> > 314-974-5600
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >


> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >


> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> 
> 
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> 
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-- 
/*
Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
*/




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Re: [WISPA] Bill proposed to give President Emergencey Contol of Interent

[Robert West]

Oh, and I can just imagine the quality of people who would be picked for
investigation and enforcement.  A group of people making better than minimum
wage, computer experience is that their cousin once gave them a computer.
Give them a badge and some power..  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Gary Garrett
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bill proposed to give President Emergencey Contol of
Interent

OMG I think I am going to throw up.
Bend over boys we want to look up inside your network.


> Think TSA for the Internet instead of for airports. 




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Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

[Robert West]

I'm actually about to test something similar in a few days.  We have a 2.5
mile link to put in with half a mile of it through trees with .25 miles of
that running right over a creek.  Doing it on the cheap, or trying to.  Have
2 Mikrotik 411 boards on both sides running a transparent bridge using XR9
cards attached to a pac wireless grid antenna setup with horizontal
polarity.  The antennas are up and the boxes are configured, just have to go
out tonight or tomorrow and run power to them and try to see what kind of
throughput we can get, if any.  Haven't tried it before but we'll see.  

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick D. Nix, Jr
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

We've been using the Trango 900Mhz gear and are familiar with canopy and
it's abilities.  How does a Mikrotik with something like a XR9 compare
in terms of penetration and throughput when paired with a Ubiquity CPE?

 

Patrick Nix, Jr.,
Computer Network Solutions
CSWEB.NET Internet Services
IT Manager

http://www.cnetworksolutions.com
http://www.csweb.net

(918) 235-0414

 



Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and
destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a
person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be
illegal.

 





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Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

[Robert West]

I hear ya, brother!  I'm overly optimistic.  I've also been waiting for that
13 cents the tooth fairy still owes me from 1972!

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

Good luck and may the force be with you!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Robert West
wrote:

> I'm actually about to test something similar in a few days.  We have a 2.5
> mile link to put in with half a mile of it through trees with .25 miles of
> that running right over a creek.  Doing it on the cheap, or trying to.
>  Have
> 2 Mikrotik 411 boards on both sides running a transparent bridge using XR9
> cards attached to a pac wireless grid antenna setup with horizontal
> polarity.  The antennas are up and the boxes are configured, just have to
> go
> out tonight or tomorrow and run power to them and try to see what kind of
> throughput we can get, if any.  Haven't tried it before but we'll see.
>
> Bob-
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Patrick D. Nix, Jr
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:38 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>
> We've been using the Trango 900Mhz gear and are familiar with canopy and
> it's abilities.  How does a Mikrotik with something like a XR9 compare
> in terms of penetration and throughput when paired with a Ubiquity CPE?
>
>
>
> Patrick Nix, Jr.,
> Computer Network Solutions
> CSWEB.NET Internet Services
> IT Manager
>
> http://www.cnetworksolutions.com
> http://www.csweb.net
>
> (918) 235-0414
>
>
>
> 
>
> Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and
> destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a
> person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be
> illegal.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>


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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


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>
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Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

[Robert West]

Why horizontal polarity?  Cause I'm a total idiot when it comes to 900mhz
and as my luck usually runs, if I go by the book nothing works until I do
what I'm not supposed to do.  But, also as my luck runs, the opposite of
what I try first will work  So it actually won't matter what I do including
sitting the antennas 5 feet in front of each other, it will never work the
first time out.  :)

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tim Edwards
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

I'm with Chuck, much better performance with the Trango vs. Mikrotik in 
my experience.
Why horizontal pol?  Vertical cuts through the foliage much bettter, at 
least with the NorCal
foliage we have here.

tim

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Tim Edwards, Chief Engineer t...@telescience.net
TeleScience Networks http://telescience.net
11101 Hiway 1, #102415-663-8891
Point Reyes Station, CA 94956-1375
=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



Chuck Hogg wrote:
> I find that the Trango 900 can handle the noise and capacity much better
> than MikroTik/XR9.  I have a few hundred on Trango and it works better
> imo than XR9's.  Canopy's GPS synch is the only reason I would prefer
> their 900MHz option.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck Hogg
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com
> http://www.shelbybb.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:49 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>
> I'm actually about to test something similar in a few days.  We have a
> 2.5
> mile link to put in with half a mile of it through trees with .25 miles
> of
> that running right over a creek.  Doing it on the cheap, or trying to.
> Have
> 2 Mikrotik 411 boards on both sides running a transparent bridge using
> XR9
> cards attached to a pac wireless grid antenna setup with horizontal
> polarity.  The antennas are up and the boxes are configured, just have
> to go
> out tonight or tomorrow and run power to them and try to see what kind
> of
> throughput we can get, if any.  Haven't tried it before but we'll see.  
>
> Bob-
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Patrick D. Nix, Jr
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:38 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>
> We've been using the Trango 900Mhz gear and are familiar with canopy and
> it's abilities.  How does a Mikrotik with something like a XR9 compare
> in terms of penetration and throughput when paired with a Ubiquity CPE?
>
>  
>
> Patrick Nix, Jr.,
> Computer Network Solutions
> CSWEB.NET Internet Services
> IT Manager
>
> http://www.cnetworksolutions.com
> http://www.csweb.net
>
> (918) 235-0414
>
>  
>
> 
>
> Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and
> destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a
> person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be
> illegal.
>
>  
>
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
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>
> 
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>
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> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>

Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

[Robert West]

Exactly!  But the wife never listens to that explanation of why I have to
"redo it again" after the fourth or fifth time.

Never let someone tell you it can’t be done because even out of failure
lessons are learned.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

But look at all the experience you are gaining :)

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Robert West
wrote:
> Why horizontal polarity?  Cause I'm a total idiot when it comes to 900mhz
> and as my luck usually runs, if I go by the book nothing works until I do
> what I'm not supposed to do.  But, also as my luck runs, the opposite of
> what I try first will work  So it actually won't matter what I do
including
> sitting the antennas 5 feet in front of each other, it will never work the
> first time out.  :)
>
> Bob-
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Tim Edwards
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:33 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>
> I'm with Chuck, much better performance with the Trango vs. Mikrotik in
> my experience.
> Why horizontal pol?  Vertical cuts through the foliage much bettter, at
> least with the NorCal
> foliage we have here.
>
> tim
>
> --
> =-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Tim Edwards, Chief Engineer         t...@telescience.net
> TeleScience Networks             http://telescience.net
> 11101 Hiway 1, #102                        415-663-8891
> Point Reyes Station, CA 94956-1375
> =-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
>
> Chuck Hogg wrote:
>> I find that the Trango 900 can handle the noise and capacity much better
>> than MikroTik/XR9.  I have a few hundred on Trango and it works better
>> imo than XR9's.  Canopy's GPS synch is the only reason I would prefer
>> their 900MHz option.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck Hogg
>> Shelby Broadband
>> 502-722-9292
>> ch...@shelbybb.com
>> http://www.shelbybb.com
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Robert West
>> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:49 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>>
>> I'm actually about to test something similar in a few days.  We have a
>> 2.5
>> mile link to put in with half a mile of it through trees with .25 miles
>> of
>> that running right over a creek.  Doing it on the cheap, or trying to.
>> Have
>> 2 Mikrotik 411 boards on both sides running a transparent bridge using
>> XR9
>> cards attached to a pac wireless grid antenna setup with horizontal
>> polarity.  The antennas are up and the boxes are configured, just have
>> to go
>> out tonight or tomorrow and run power to them and try to see what kind
>> of
>> throughput we can get, if any.  Haven't tried it before but we'll see.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Patrick D. Nix, Jr
>> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:38 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>>
>> We've been using the Trango 900Mhz gear and are familiar with canopy and
>> it's abilities.  How does a Mikrotik with something like a XR9 compare
>> in terms of penetration and throughput when paired with a Ubiquity CPE?
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Nix, Jr.,
>> Computer Network Solutions
>> CSWEB.NET Internet Services
>> IT Manager
>>
>> http://www.cnetworksolutions.com
>> http://www.csweb.net
>>
>> (918) 235-0414
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
>> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
>> notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and
>> destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a
>> person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be
>> illegal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> -

Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

[Robert West]

It's not the size of the wave cycle, it's how you use it.  Or something like
that.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Paul Rice
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

Folks like horizontal for 900 MHz due to the size of the wave cycle approx 
13 inches long

--
From: "RickG" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:02 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

> But look at all the experience you are gaining :)
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Robert West 
> wrote:
>> Why horizontal polarity?  Cause I'm a total idiot when it comes to 900mhz
>> and as my luck usually runs, if I go by the book nothing works until I do
>> what I'm not supposed to do.  But, also as my luck runs, the opposite of
>> what I try first will work  So it actually won't matter what I do 
>> including
>> sitting the antennas 5 feet in front of each other, it will never work 
>> the
>> first time out.  :)
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Tim Edwards
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:33 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>>
>> I'm with Chuck, much better performance with the Trango vs. Mikrotik in
>> my experience.
>> Why horizontal pol?  Vertical cuts through the foliage much bettter, at
>> least with the NorCal
>> foliage we have here.
>>
>> tim
>>
>> --
>> =-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>> Tim Edwards, Chief Engineer t...@telescience.net
>> TeleScience Networks http://telescience.net
>> 11101 Hiway 1, #102415-663-8891
>> Point Reyes Station, CA 94956-1375
>> =-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>> I find that the Trango 900 can handle the noise and capacity much better
>>> than MikroTik/XR9.  I have a few hundred on Trango and it works better
>>> imo than XR9's.  Canopy's GPS synch is the only reason I would prefer
>>> their 900MHz option.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck Hogg
>>> Shelby Broadband
>>> 502-722-9292
>>> ch...@shelbybb.com
>>> http://www.shelbybb.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Robert West
>>> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:49 PM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>>>
>>> I'm actually about to test something similar in a few days.  We have a
>>> 2.5
>>> mile link to put in with half a mile of it through trees with .25 miles
>>> of
>>> that running right over a creek.  Doing it on the cheap, or trying to.
>>> Have
>>> 2 Mikrotik 411 boards on both sides running a transparent bridge using
>>> XR9
>>> cards attached to a pac wireless grid antenna setup with horizontal
>>> polarity.  The antennas are up and the boxes are configured, just have
>>> to go
>>> out tonight or tomorrow and run power to them and try to see what kind
>>> of
>>> throughput we can get, if any.  Haven't tried it before but we'll see.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Patrick D. Nix, Jr
>>> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:38 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>>>
>>> We've been using the Trango 900Mhz gear and are familiar with canopy and
>>> it's abilities.  How does a Mikrotik with something like a XR9 compare
>>> in terms of penetration and throughput when paired with a Ubiquity CPE?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick Nix, Jr.,
>>> Computer Network Solutions
>>> CSWEB.NET Internet Services
>>> IT Manager
>>>
>>> http://www.cnetworksolutions.com
>>> http://www.csweb.net
>>>
>>> (918) 235-0414
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain conf

Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill

[Robert West]

I thought it was to watch funny cat videos on YouTube.  Have I been wrong on
this???

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Frank
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:58 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill

Exactly! One of the best reasons to have the Internet is to hack (with free
speech) the government.

Frank 

-Original Message-
From: Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:02 PM


Wasn't the internet made for the exact opposite of what this bill is trying
to give him power to due?

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 






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Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill

[Robert West]

Nicola Tesla had the idea back in the late 1800's but it included the
telegraph  Strange but true.

But he was from the future, after all.  :)





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill

Was it Prodigy, AOL or Gore who invented the Internet?  Or was it 
Compuserve?  Man we've come a long ways since ALL of those.

At 10:53 AM 9/3/2009, you wrote:
>I guess it depends on your definition of "Internet".  The ARPANET model
>doesn't really show what we have today.
>
>For me it's about TCP/IP, communication globally from the home, the
capacity
>for anyone to present what they want nearly instantly.
>
>20 years could you put a video online and share it with the planet in less
>then a minute?  That would have been a joke back then.
>
>Anyways..back to the government not doing its job...
>
>Josh Luthman
>Office: 937-552-2340
>Direct: 937-552-2343
>1100 Wayne St
>Suite 1337
>Troy, OH 45373
>
>"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>improbable, must be the truth."
>--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
>On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:50 AM, RickG  wrote:
>
> > It was more about national defense way back in the 60s -->
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET
> > Commercial didnt enter the picture until much later.
> > -RickG
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:49 AM, Josh
> > Luthman wrote:
> > > Actually Internet wasn't really made for anything.  If you want to tie
it
> > to
> > > any one thing, commercial purposes was the primary focus.
> > >
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> > > improbable, must be the truth."
> > > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:01 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Wasn't the internet made for the exact opposite of what this bill is
> > trying
> > >> to give him power to due?
> > >>
> > >> Kurt Fankhauser
> > >> WAVELINC
> > >> P.O. Box 126
> > >> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> > >> 419-562-6405
> > >> www.wavelinc.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> > >> Behalf Of RickG
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:44 PM
> > >> To: WISPA General List
> > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill
> > >>
> > >> He'll have to pry my radios from my cold, dead fingers! What I cant
> > >> figure out is why "we" are giving this guy so much power?
> > >> At any rate, the comments are interesting:
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
>
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/28/senate-president-emergency-contro
> > >> l-internet/comments/
> > >> -RickG<
> > 
>
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/28/senate-president-emergency-contro
%0Al-internet/comments/%0A-RickG
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:27 PM, John J. Thomas
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
>
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/28/senate-president-emergency-contro
> > >> l-internet/<
> > 
>
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/28/senate-president-emergency-contro
%0Al-internet/
> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
>

> > >> 
> > >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
>

> > >> 
> > >> >
> > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >> >
> > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >> >
> > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
>

> > >> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
>

> > >> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
>


> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
>


> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > 

Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill

[Robert West]

That brings me back to a thought I had a few months back.  Text messaging.
It's been proven that a person using Morse code to enter a text message will
beat someone using normal text entry.  But with that, isn’t text messaging
pretty much the same type of thing as sending in Morse?  We went from Morse
to voice and it was a big improvement but now it's retro and we're back to
the text.  So my thought was, coming up with a phone that would do semaphore
and then after that caught on, go for smoke signals then later still, the
cell phone could tell my kid to run down the street and give my message in
person.  At that point there would be no need for the cell phone and we
could charge for the luxury of not having one.


I also have too much time on my hands, or so the wife tells me.



Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill

I guess one might say that was the original concept. I suppose smoke
signals would qualify as well. Or maybe a bottle with a note cast into
the sea? LOL!

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Frank wrote:
> The telegraph was the Victorian Internet.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Internet
>
>
> Frank
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Robert West
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:07 AM
>
> Nicola Tesla had the idea back in the late 1800's but it included the
> telegraph  Strange but true.
>
> But he was from the future, after all.  :)
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


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>




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Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill

[Robert West]

The head to head competition!  

http://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/Text_vs_Morse_Leno_2005_05_13.wmv



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:04 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill

Apparently someone doesn't use T9 word mode  or have a smart phone.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "jp" 
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 3:39 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill

> Well, keying in letters on the dtmf keypad of a phone means it's 1-4
> presses per digit. Morse code is 1-4 presses per letter or 5 for
> numbers. Input encoding: Morse code is 1-2 press options (depending on
> the input device), a phone is 10-12 keys to use. So I'd say they are
> comparable for text data efficiency, and morse wins hands for hand-eye
> coordination or simplicity.
>
> Thus if phones had morse code encoders and decoders built in, people
> could text easier with less distraction. You know kids would learn morse
> code in order to become superior texters.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 03:23:35PM -0400, Robert West wrote:
>> That brings me back to a thought I had a few months back.  Text 
>> messaging.
>> It's been proven that a person using Morse code to enter a text message 
>> will
>> beat someone using normal text entry.  But with that, isn't text 
>> messaging
>> pretty much the same type of thing as sending in Morse?  We went from 
>> Morse
>> to voice and it was a big improvement but now it's retro and we're back 
>> to
>> the text.  So my thought was, coming up with a phone that would do 
>> semaphore
>> and then after that caught on, go for smoke signals then later still, the
>> cell phone could tell my kid to run down the street and give my message 
>> in
>> person.  At that point there would be no need for the cell phone and we
>> could charge for the luxury of not having one.
>>
>>
>> I also have too much time on my hands, or so the wife tells me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:07 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Senate Bill
>>
>> I guess one might say that was the original concept. I suppose smoke
>> signals would qualify as well. Or maybe a bottle with a note cast into
>> the sea? LOL!
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Frank wrote:
>> > The telegraph was the Victorian Internet.
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Internet
>> >
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Robert West
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:07 AM
>> >
>> > Nicola Tesla had the idea back in the late 1800's but it included the
>> > telegraph Strange but true.
>> >
>> > But he was from the future, after all. :)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>

>> 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>>

>> 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >
>>
>>
>>

>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Preliminary analysis of BTOP/BIP applications

[Robert West]

If it's a long flight they could burn some internet to a dual layer DVD.  

But I thought Bill Curtis already found the internet on the plane with his
AT&T netbook and the AT&T G4 network???  I was SURE that's what he told me.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Carullo
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preliminary analysis of BTOP/BIP applications

Yeah for that much they could put the Internet on a disk and take it  
with them on the plane :)

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x102

On Sep 10, 2009, at 6:24 PM, ralph  wrote:

> This:
>
> "requesting $65M to deploy "Inflight Internet service in the largely  
> unserved U.S. airspace via Aircell's ATG commercial broadband  
> network."
>
> Is absolutely ridiculous!
>
> mail/wireless/
>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
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[WISPA] Customer to Bandwidth Ratio

[Robert West]

I'm sure this has been asked before but what ratio are some of you using for
customer vs. available bandwidth?  We aren't experiencing any problems at
the moment but I want to know when we should start looking to add capacity.
Our competitor is running 20 up and 20 down but has 500+ customers on it and
if I do a speed test the pings are fast, 32 or so, but it's really "jerky"
on the download and uploads.  So..  What is a good REAL WORLD ratio that
you use that is smooth?

Thanks!

Robert West
Just Micro Digital Services Inc.






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[WISPA] Comet Antennas

[Robert West]

I was looking for a decent 2.4GHz Omni for some small AP's I'm in the
process of setting up in our outlying areas with low population density and
came across these Comet antennas over at wlanparts.  Has anyone had any
experience with these? At a little over 100 bucks, worth it or not?   Price
doesn't always reflect quality, as has been shown with the Wifi+ antennas at
least from MY experience, any better alternatives for an inexpensive,
quality Omni?

Reason for using the Omni, I've been setting up small AP's with a 411AH with
one MT R52N card for the customer side and a Bullet 5HP on a PAC Wireless
grid for the backhaul.  The Omni lets me connect the site owner to the
network, at least, and some of their neighbors.  I'll upgrade to sector
antennas and add 2 more MT cards once the interest is there.  The Omni lets
me set it up an AP for less than 400 bucks plus the cost of a NS2 for the
site owner's house.  Been using cheap Pac Wireless Omni's but if I could pay
a small bit more for a little more reach, all the good!

Thanks!

Bob-





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[WISPA] UBNT AirMax World Conference

[Robert West]

Okay, so I got an email from UBNT about the AirMax World Conference in
Chicago.  The bait is a FREE Rocket5 for EVERYONE who attends??  Of course
the small print, "*While supplies last, we will try to make sure all
registered attendees receive one"  I'm still waiting for my free shirt, by
the way, and it's only been a year.

Anyhow, if we are to get a free RocketM5, which looks to retail at around 89
bucks per, and one goes to EVERY attendee, not to every company represented,
I think I'm taking the family on vacation to Chicago.  I'm sure the kids can
sit through all the technical mumbo-jumbo yackety-yack, as well as any
friends they want to bring along.  My parents haven't been anywhere for
awhile...  I could possibly invite maybe the drive thru window
person at McDonalds to come along..  I could pull people off the street,
maybe, pay them 10 bucks to come inside...  The possibilities are endless!  

Robert West
Just Micro Digital Services Inc.


Sent from my PC because I don't own a BlackBerry and not one handed because
I type with two fingers.


(It's Saturday)





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Re: [WISPA] UBNT AirMax World Conference

[Robert West]

Hey, it's only a 5 hour drive for me!  Gotta get out the calculator...
22 miles a gallon, 692 miles round trip, gas 2.50 gallon, 78 bucks in gas,
already 10 buck profit.  (Not counting for the extra weight from the
humans packed like cattle into my mini-van)  Gotta feed em', sadly 
Say, 100 bucks in food for the day, the PIGS, dipping into my
profit..  The 99 cents for a cheeseburger at McDonalds to ask the
drive thru person to come along..  The 10 dollar bills to pass out
on the sidewalk to coerce passersby to come inside is variable.  

It's workable.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jayson Baker
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT AirMax World Conference

You can get round-trip airfare and hotel accomodations to Chicago for less
than $89/pp?

On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Okay, so I got an email from UBNT about the AirMax World Conference in
> Chicago.  The bait is a FREE Rocket5 for EVERYONE who attends??  Of course
> the small print, "*While supplies last, we will try to make sure all
> registered attendees receive one"  I'm still waiting for my free shirt, by
> the way, and it's only been a year.
>
> Anyhow, if we are to get a free RocketM5, which looks to retail at around
> 89
> bucks per, and one goes to EVERY attendee, not to every company
> represented,
> I think I'm taking the family on vacation to Chicago.  I'm sure the kids
> can
> sit through all the technical mumbo-jumbo yackety-yack, as well as any
> friends they want to bring along.  My parents haven't been anywhere for
> awhile...  I could possibly invite maybe the drive thru window
> person at McDonalds to come along..  I could pull people off the
> street,
> maybe, pay them 10 bucks to come inside...  The possibilities are endless!
>
> Robert West
> Just Micro Digital Services Inc.
>
>
> Sent from my PC because I don't own a BlackBerry and not one handed
because
> I type with two fingers.
>
>
> (It's Saturday)
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] UBNT AirMax World Conference

[Robert West]

Maybe I could put something up on Craig's List in Chicago and gather up,
say, 200 people.  Fill the hall with warm bodies who have no interest in
UBNT all for the sake of my greedy motivation.  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:35 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT AirMax World Conference

Not to mention the fact we all expect it to be difficult to order more
Ubnt gear half the time.

On 9/12/09, Robert West  wrote:
> Hey, it's only a 5 hour drive for me!  Gotta get out the calculator...
> 22 miles a gallon, 692 miles round trip, gas 2.50 gallon, 78 bucks in gas,
> already 10 buck profit.  (Not counting for the extra weight from the
> humans packed like cattle into my mini-van)  Gotta feed em', sadly 
> Say, 100 bucks in food for the day, the PIGS, dipping into my
> profit..  The 99 cents for a cheeseburger at McDonalds to ask the
> drive thru person to come along..  The 10 dollar bills to pass out
> on the sidewalk to coerce passersby to come inside is variable.
>
> It's workable.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jayson Baker
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:07 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT AirMax World Conference
>
> You can get round-trip airfare and hotel accomodations to Chicago for less
> than $89/pp?
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
>> Okay, so I got an email from UBNT about the AirMax World Conference in
>> Chicago.  The bait is a FREE Rocket5 for EVERYONE who attends??  Of
course
>> the small print, "*While supplies last, we will try to make sure all
>> registered attendees receive one"  I'm still waiting for my free shirt,
by
>> the way, and it's only been a year.
>>
>> Anyhow, if we are to get a free RocketM5, which looks to retail at around
>> 89
>> bucks per, and one goes to EVERY attendee, not to every company
>> represented,
>> I think I'm taking the family on vacation to Chicago.  I'm sure the kids
>> can
>> sit through all the technical mumbo-jumbo yackety-yack, as well as any
>> friends they want to bring along.  My parents haven't been anywhere for
>> awhile...  I could possibly invite maybe the drive thru window
>> person at McDonalds to come along..  I could pull people off the
>> street,
>> maybe, pay them 10 bucks to come inside...  The possibilities are
endless!
>>
>> Robert West
>> Just Micro Digital Services Inc.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my PC because I don't own a BlackBerry and not one handed
> because
>> I type with two fingers.
>>
>>
>> (It's Saturday)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>
>

> 
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
>

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-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle




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--

Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)

[Robert West]

Those marketing photos sure look pretty though.  They might also explain why
I keep seeing installs done just like the pictures.  I had a bit of an
argument a few weeks ago on the UBNT forums with some folks defending using
indoor patch cable outside and not wrapping connectors.  It started with
someone complaining to UBNT that the patch cable boots wouldn't fit inside
the bullet caps.  (The answer from UBNT was that it was a tradeoff in the
design...???)  Silly me, I said they were supposed to be used with outdoor
shielded cable, not patch with the boots.  You wouldn't believe how many
negative comments came from that.  Pictures of nice pretty blue PVC patch
cables and bright shiny connectors.  And now there is an army of
installers following these lies.

We use outdoor, flooded cable with the static drain wire to an outdoor
shielded connector.  All connections wrapped.   It's not as pretty but I
don't work for Apple so I just care about it being functional and trouble
free.  I would be more attracted to a photo of equipment with a correct
install.  They are marketing to professionals, after all, and when I see one
of these photos, I'm like you and are too busy being distracted by the
things that are wrong.



On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote:

> Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely  
> create
> a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just  
> big
> enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing  
> photos
> of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor
> unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc...





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Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)

[Robert West]

Nice pretty and shiny PVC makes for a better picture in a variety of colors!
All the outdoor shielded cable we've ever purchased is a boring flat black.





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are
You?)

Wait why would patch cables look better then shielded cable and
connectors..?

On 9/12/09, Robert West  wrote:
> Those marketing photos sure look pretty though.  They might also explain
why
> I keep seeing installs done just like the pictures.  I had a bit of an
> argument a few weeks ago on the UBNT forums with some folks defending
using
> indoor patch cable outside and not wrapping connectors.  It started with
> someone complaining to UBNT that the patch cable boots wouldn't fit inside
> the bullet caps.  (The answer from UBNT was that it was a tradeoff in the
> design...???)  Silly me, I said they were supposed to be used with outdoor
> shielded cable, not patch with the boots.  You wouldn't believe how many
> negative comments came from that.  Pictures of nice pretty blue PVC patch
> cables and bright shiny connectors.  And now there is an army
of
> installers following these lies.
>
> We use outdoor, flooded cable with the static drain wire to an outdoor
> shielded connector.  All connections wrapped.   It's not as pretty but I
> don't work for Apple so I just care about it being functional and trouble
> free.  I would be more attracted to a photo of equipment with a correct
> install.  They are marketing to professionals, after all, and when I see
one
> of these photos, I'm like you and are too busy being distracted by the
> things that are wrong.
>
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote:
>
>> Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely
>> create
>> a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just
>> big
>> enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing
>> photos
>> of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor
>> unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc...
>
>
>
>

> 
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>

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>


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-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle




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Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)

[Robert West]

Yep.  I'll take a boring flat black shielded cable over a pretty indoor
patch cable anytime for an outdoor install.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are
You?)

As opposed to pretty rainbow colors?

On 9/12/09, Robert West  wrote:
> Nice pretty and shiny PVC makes for a better picture in a variety of
colors!
> All the outdoor shielded cable we've ever purchased is a boring flat
black.
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:12 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are
> You?)
>
> Wait why would patch cables look better then shielded cable and
> connectors..?
>
> On 9/12/09, Robert West  wrote:
>> Those marketing photos sure look pretty though.  They might also explain
> why
>> I keep seeing installs done just like the pictures.  I had a bit of an
>> argument a few weeks ago on the UBNT forums with some folks defending
> using
>> indoor patch cable outside and not wrapping connectors.  It started with
>> someone complaining to UBNT that the patch cable boots wouldn't fit
inside
>> the bullet caps.  (The answer from UBNT was that it was a tradeoff in the
>> design...???)  Silly me, I said they were supposed to be used with
outdoor
>> shielded cable, not patch with the boots.  You wouldn't believe how many
>> negative comments came from that.  Pictures of nice pretty blue PVC patch
>> cables and bright shiny connectors.  And now there is an army
> of
>> installers following these lies.
>>
>> We use outdoor, flooded cable with the static drain wire to an outdoor
>> shielded connector.  All connections wrapped.   It's not as pretty but I
>> don't work for Apple so I just care about it being functional and trouble
>> free.  I would be more attracted to a photo of equipment with a correct
>> install.  They are marketing to professionals, after all, and when I see
> one
>> of these photos, I'm like you and are too busy being distracted by the
>> things that are wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote:
>>
>>> Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely
>>> create
>>> a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just
>>> big
>>> enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing
>>> photos
>>> of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor
>>> unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

>> 
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>

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>
>
> --
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
>

> 
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-

Re: [WISPA] Comet Antennas

[Robert West]

I've been using the Pac OD24-12 and they have the 3 degree downtilt but the
reach isn't very far which is okay for what I've been doing with them.  The
price is around 60 to 65 bucks for the pac wireless.  The comets seem to be
around $105 but if 40 bucks more gave me an extra half mile or more, that
would pay for it easily.  My use of it is just to gather enough generated
income to justify the investment in good sectors and move the omni to the
next cheapo AP.

I'll try one out with an existing AP we have and see what sort of difference
we get and possibly get a few more if the specs work out.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:59 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Comet Antennas

The GP-24-3 street price costs about double than the OD24-12... but you do
get 3 degrees of electrical downtilt

Comet is going to probably be more expensive across the board

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:30 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Comet Antennas
>
>What are Comet's prices relative to Pac's (similar products)?
>
>Josh Luthman
>Office: 937-552-2340
>Direct: 937-552-2343
>1100 Wayne St
>Suite 1337
>Troy, OH 45373
>
>"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>improbable, must be the truth."
>--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
>On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:31 AM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>>
>> I strongly recommend Comet antennas... in 2.4GHz it is the only omni I
>> typically recommend.
>>
>> Just had a customer swap out some Pac Omni's for Comet ones and he
>told me
>> he saw an across the boards performance increase.  My own limited
>testing
>> in
>> our old WISP showed them to outperform the Pac's we had elsewhere.
>>
>> I personally generally recommend the GP-24-3... which is 12dBi with 3
>> degrees of downtilt
>>
>> Daniel White
>> 3-dB Networks
>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>
>>
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>On
>> >Behalf Of Robert West
>> >Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:23 AM
>> >To: 'WISPA General List'
>> >Subject: [WISPA] Comet Antennas
>> >
>> >I was looking for a decent 2.4GHz Omni for some small AP's I'm in the
>> >process of setting up in our outlying areas with low population
>density
>> >and
>> >came across these Comet antennas over at wlanparts.  Has anyone had
>any
>> >experience with these? At a little over 100 bucks, worth it or not?
>> >Price
>> >doesn't always reflect quality, as has been shown with the Wifi+
>> >antennas at
>> >least from MY experience, any better alternatives for an inexpensive,
>> >quality Omni?
>> >
>> >Reason for using the Omni, I've been setting up small AP's with a
>411AH
>> >with
>> >one MT R52N card for the customer side and a Bullet 5HP on a PAC
>> >Wireless
>> >grid for the backhaul.  The Omni lets me connect the site owner to
>the
>> >network, at least, and some of their neighbors.  I'll upgrade to
>sector
>> >antennas and add 2 more MT cards once the interest is there.  The
>Omni
>> >lets
>> >me set it up an AP for less than 400 bucks plus the cost of a NS2 for
>> >the
>> >site owner's house.  Been using cheap Pac Wireless Omni's but if I
>could
>> >pay
>> >a small bit more for a little more reach, all the good!
>> >
>> >Thanks!
>> >
>> >Bob-
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-
>---
>> >
>> >WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> >http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >-
>---
>> >
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>>
>>
>> --
>--
>> WISPA Wa

Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX AreYou?)

[Robert West]

Yep.  And some are very smug about it.  As if anyone using anything else is
pretty darned stupid.  We use the flooded and shielded just to use one
cable.  Had call for it a few times so we just use it always.





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX
AreYou?)

People are using patch cords from Walmart in their WISP installs?  Jeez...

I use regular outdoor cable, no flooding, no shielding, just UV protected 
cable.  It's all I normally need and I've been doing this for a few years.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Robert West" 
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:00 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX 
AreYou?)

> Those marketing photos sure look pretty though.  They might also explain 
> why
> I keep seeing installs done just like the pictures.  I had a bit of an
> argument a few weeks ago on the UBNT forums with some folks defending 
> using
> indoor patch cable outside and not wrapping connectors.  It started with
> someone complaining to UBNT that the patch cable boots wouldn't fit inside
> the bullet caps.  (The answer from UBNT was that it was a tradeoff in the
> design...???)  Silly me, I said they were supposed to be used with outdoor
> shielded cable, not patch with the boots.  You wouldn't believe how many
> negative comments came from that.  Pictures of nice pretty blue PVC patch
> cables and bright shiny connectors.  And now there is an army 
> of
> installers following these lies.
>
> We use outdoor, flooded cable with the static drain wire to an outdoor
> shielded connector.  All connections wrapped.   It's not as pretty but I
> don't work for Apple so I just care about it being functional and trouble
> free.  I would be more attracted to a photo of equipment with a correct
> install.  They are marketing to professionals, after all, and when I see 
> one
> of these photos, I'm like you and are too busy being distracted by the
> things that are wrong.
>
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote:
>
>> Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely
>> create
>> a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just
>> big
>> enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing
>> photos
>> of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor
>> unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc...
>
>
>
>

> 
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Re: [WISPA] [Btop-bip] BIP / BTOP Applications are online

[Robert West]

Where will the Executive Summaries be posted, what area?  I too am
interested in seeing some of the content of the applications.



- Original Message - 
>From: St. Louis Broadband 
>To: 'WISPA General List' 
>Cc: 'WISPA Members BTOP-BIP List' 
>Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:21 PM
>Subject: Re: [Btop-bip] [WISPA] BIP / BTOP Applications are online
>
>They will show most of it when they post the Executive Summaries...maybe,
at
>least ours does,
>
>Victoria
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of jp
>Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 12:35 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Cc: WISPA Members BTOP-BIP List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] BIP / BTOP Applications are online
>
>I'd like to see the actual content of the applications
>
>Some of them seem quite far fetched. Others seem like plans I'd like to 
>know more about.
>
>On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 05:34:18PM -0400, Kevin Suitor wrote:
>> http://www.ntia.doc.gov/broadbandgrants/applications/search.cfm
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [cid:image001.jpg@01CA3173.C2138660]
>> Redline Communications Inc.
>> Kevin Suitor
>> Vice President, Corporate Marketing
>> 302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA
>> o: +1 905.948.2299 f: +1 647.723.0451 m: +1 416.508.1252
>> Skype:   ksuitor
>> e-mail:
>ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
>> Web:
>www.redlinecommunications.com
>> 
>> 
>
>-- 
>/*
>Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
>    KB1IOJ    |   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
> http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Maine    http://www.midcoast.com/
>*/
>
>
>---
-
>
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-
>
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>
>
>___
>Btop-bip mailing list
>btop-...@wispa.org
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/btop-bip


  




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Re: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids.

[Robert West]

I've been installing pac grids with the 5ghz version of the new Bullet, the
5hp, and it's been darn stable. Could it be something in the Airmax or the
2ghz???  Dunno.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids.

What grid type/vendors are most using here. Our installers are having 
some issues with our Grid deployments. We've tried a few types of 
Pac-Wireless's, some of them have had wildly fluctuating signal levels 
they bounce 20db. Our Andrew grids seem to work fine, but we are looking 
for a less costly alternative, any ideas? We are using Ubiquity 
Bullet2-HP's as the client radios on these things. I'm just wondering 
what causes this, we can take a different radio/antenna and get a rock 
solid connection on the same pole, so we've discounted some kind of 
interference issue.

Regards
Michael Baird




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[WISPA] Rohn 25G Tower Jack

[Robert West]

Anyone have a Rohn 25G tower jack they no longer need?  Gotta take one down,
need a jack but would rather buy a used one from a member before shelling
out some jack to Champion radio.  

Thanks!

Robert West
Just Micro Digital Services inc.

Sent from my PC cause I'm too poor for a Blackberry and not one handed cause
I type with two fingers.

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:36 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids.

I've been installing pac grids with the 5ghz version of the new Bullet, the
5hp, and it's been darn stable. Could it be something in the Airmax or the
2ghz???  Dunno.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids.

What grid type/vendors are most using here. Our installers are having 
some issues with our Grid deployments. We've tried a few types of 
Pac-Wireless's, some of them have had wildly fluctuating signal levels 
they bounce 20db. Our Andrew grids seem to work fine, but we are looking 
for a less costly alternative, any ideas? We are using Ubiquity 
Bullet2-HP's as the client radios on these things. I'm just wondering 
what causes this, we can take a different radio/antenna and get a rock 
solid connection on the same pole, so we've discounted some kind of 
interference issue.

Regards
Michael Baird




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Re: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids.

[Robert West]

Using the same coax as you have been using?  Any new guys crimping the
connectors???  Something has to be different.  Might be the signal jumps
when the wind blows?  check the connections, maybe.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids.

Well this is strange, we've seen it on different model Grids. We saw the 
same behavior with Non-M and M based Bullets.
The signal just keeps bouncing 20db from -74 to -94 for example, with an 
Andrew it is solid at around the -74. Is it possible they are defective? 
I can't see how we could be assembling these things improperly, it's 
pretty obvious. We do use them in Horizontal polarity, but the feedhorn 
is parallel to the wires when we do this. I mean it's like it's flipping 
between HPOL/VPOL.

Regards
Michael Baird
> I've been installing pac grids with the 5ghz version of the new Bullet,
the
> 5hp, and it's been darn stable. Could it be something in the Airmax or the
> 2ghz???  Dunno.  
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:58 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids.
>
> What grid type/vendors are most using here. Our installers are having 
> some issues with our Grid deployments. We've tried a few types of 
> Pac-Wireless's, some of them have had wildly fluctuating signal levels 
> they bounce 20db. Our Andrew grids seem to work fine, but we are looking 
> for a less costly alternative, any ideas? We are using Ubiquity 
> Bullet2-HP's as the client radios on these things. I'm just wondering 
> what causes this, we can take a different radio/antenna and get a rock 
> solid connection on the same pole, so we've discounted some kind of 
> interference issue.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>

> 
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Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

[Robert West]

In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to
provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the
masses.  That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband
is for their system.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM
To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't  
really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want  
you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on.

For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in  
for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well  
tough.

If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes  
to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale  
access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just  
seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their  
usual games with this stuff and block the intent.

So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how  
they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the  
provider is willing to and interested in doing so.

Chuck


On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote:

> Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open  
> their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule?
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Chuck Bartosch 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400
>
>> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you  
>> don't
>> think it's a good plan.
>>
>> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that  
>> explicitly
>> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over  
>> about
>> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over
>> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage
>> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you
>> can find it on line.
>>
>> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are  
>> instructed
>> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this.
>>
>> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms
>> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any
>> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's.
>>
>> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out
>> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach  
>> you're
>> suggesting as I understood the circular.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>
>>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan.
>>> The
>>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer
>>> money
>>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and
>>> adhere to the NOFA rules.  If you think you can do a better plan,
>>> but didn;t
>>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get
>>> approved
>>> if its less good?
>>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA
>>> what we
>>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the
>>> public that
>>> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects.
>>>
>>> I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that
>>> targeted
>>> truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider
>>> infrastructure. I plan to support those projects.
>>> For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that
>>> would
>>> directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets.  I
>>> plan to
>>> protest that 20%.  Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre-
>>> existing
>>> providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them
>>> into the
>>> proposal to gain their support.  If they didn't do that, they
>>> deserve to
>>> have their applications protested, in my opinion.
>>>
>>> As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on
>>> applying
>>> for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and
>>> advising that
>>> the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to
>>> projects
>>> without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny  
>>> the
>>> conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe
>>> fairly
>>> considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and
>>> isn't
>>> underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the
>>> areas.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9

Re: [WISPA] Need Lightning Arrestor Advice

[Robert West]

For us, we also do an arrestor before the radio, a gas discharge unit.  We
also use an arrestor before the POE injector and anyplace else a cable
enters a structure or piece of equipment.  We use shielded and flooded Cat5
cable with a static drain wire attached to shielded cat5 connectors and also
grounded.  (The static can give you problems just as much as lighting) For
ground, we "try" to stay away from just wire and use copper strap where we
can.  1.5" to 2".  In a pinch I've cut copper pipe in half to give me the
strap needed.  (Never make any sharp angles with the grounds, lightning
likes to go in a straight line) On our MT boxes, I put a thin copper sheet
on the inside and outside where the gas discharge is inserted and attach a
copper ground terminal to it on the outside and use that to ground to the
structure we are on.  For good measure, I use a lighting rated surge
protector wherever we get commercial power.  20 bucks here from Ace
Hardware.  Says they will pay for up to $50,000 in damages caused by
lightning.  (I always thought, the surge has 6 outlets to plug things in - -
What 6 things could I possibly have that would total $50,000 and if I did,
why would I trust a $20 adapter from Ace Hardware???)   What we do is
probably overkill in our area but we haven't lost a unit yet.  I obviously
modify everything, it's a curse.

The experts in all this are the cellular and broadcast tower people.  Look
around on the methods they use.  Polyphaser is a good place to look for
ideas, http://www.polyphaser.com/  I can't afford much of what they sell but
it's good to see what's out there.






-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of James McBryan
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:52 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Need Lightning Arrestor Advice

Hello all,

I am part of a group installing a wireless network in rural Honduras  
for a growing educational system with a chapter of Engineers Without  
Borders (http://ewb-usa.org). We are creating a 7 node wireless  
network spanning a 3 mile radius. Since Honduras is very prone to  
rain storms and lightning strikes, we need to protect our equipment  
from the lightning. We plan on doing the following:

1) Place an arrestor between the radio and the antenna
2) Place an arrestor in the POE injector

Some of the following criteria we are thinking:

Amount of lightning strikes: One or Many
Insertion Loss: Small as possbile
Frequency : 2.4-5.8 GHZ

When searching the internet, I see many many types of lightning  
arrestors given my criteria. Does anyone have any recommendations  
through their experience with lightning arrestors? What do you use?

Thanks!
James




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Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

[Robert West]

Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in.  A system
of towers, is what they propose.  No fiber.  A million bucks worth of towers
and radios?  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper  
bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going  
to have tons of excess capacity.

Chuck

On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote:

> In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million  
> bucks to
> provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband  
> to the
> masses.  That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper  
> broadband
> is for their system.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM
> To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
>
> Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't
> really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want
> you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on.
>
> For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in
> for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well
> tough.
>
> If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes
> to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale
> access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just
> seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their
> usual games with this stuff and block the intent.
>
> So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how
> they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the
> provider is willing to and interested in doing so.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote:
>
>> Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open
>> their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule?
>>
>> Scottie
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: Chuck Bartosch 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400
>>
>>> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you
>>> don't
>>> think it's a good plan.
>>>
>>> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that
>>> explicitly
>>> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over
>>> about
>>> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over
>>> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage
>>> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you
>>> can find it on line.
>>>
>>> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are
>>> instructed
>>> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this.
>>>
>>> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general  
>>> terms
>>> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any
>>> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's.
>>>
>>> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out
>>> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach
>>> you're
>>> suggesting as I understood the circular.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan.
>>>> The
>>>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer
>>>> money
>>>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and
>>>> adhere to the NOFA rules.  If you think you can do a better plan,
>>>> but didn;t
>>>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get
>>>> approved
>>>> if its less good?
>>>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA
>>>> what we
>>>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the
>>>> public that
>>>> has to pay the taxes

Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

[Robert West]

I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums.  The solution they
had is the same as Josh here says.  It tends to fall on its face at times
although I never tried it for myself.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups.

Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links.  Personally done
with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four
bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess
wrote:

> Don't know what that means?  I am assuming that you had some lockups
> while using dual nstream.  Don't think that was part of the
> conversation.  I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or
> Static-Routed link is well documented.
>
> ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member
> Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
> LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
> Author of "Learn RouterOS"
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
>
> So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a
> coincidentally solved by changing the config..?
>
> On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess  wrote:
> > OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented,
> > but I don't think he needs that.  I would just put up a link and be
> > happy!  Keep in mind, installation is key to a quality and reliable
> > link!
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:39 PM
> > To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
> >
> > Assuming you can get 40mhz of 5ghz spectrum and not need it anymore,
> > MT is great and it's cheap. Finding that 40mhz is your major concern.
> >
> > I am running two backhauls, each with two pairs of radios (that's
> > 40mhz of spectrum) and they're 99% awesome.  Don't use the 532/333
> > (433ah IMO) or dual nstreme (use Butch's pseudo fdx OSPF) and you'll
> > get that .999%.
> >
> > On 9/16/09, Scott Carullo  wrote:
> >>
> >> Marlon,
> >>
> >> I haven't seen every post on this thread but have been keeping eye on
> > it at
> >> a distance...
> >>
> >> Why would you not want to use a MT solution for about $500 for the
> > link
> >> with the ability to easily go 30/60MB depending on 20/40Mhz channel.
> > I'd
> >> say its proven there are a multitude of people that use the gear for
> >> backhaul on this list and any of them will tell you its a solid
> > performer.
> >> Is it the absolute most reliable rock solid gear available?  Depends
> > who
> >> you ask.  I've had MT gear running I've forgotten about for many
> years
> >> without a hickup.  Also had some that has to be replaced a bit more
> > than
> >> other solutions might need to be due to ethernet sensitiity - depends
> > on
> >> how & where its installed.
> >>
> >> But, considering the alternative prices you could get an awful lot
> > more for
> >> your money with this solution.  You could even put in two radios on
> > each
> >> side and link them together using on of many different ways for
> > redundancy
> >> - still at a fraction of the cost of other solutions.
> >>
> >> The positive side is your price range is very realistic for that
> > throughput
> >> - you have many good solid choices you won't go wrong with most of
> > which
> >> has been discussed on this list already.  I'll give you one more...
> I
> > have
> >> an external trango Atlas link coming down in about a week I can part
> > with
> >> ;)
> >>
> >> Scott Carullo
> >> Brevard Wireless
> >> 321-205-1100 x102
> >>
> >>  Original Message 
> >>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:57 PM
> >>> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
> >>>
> >>> Uh, guys, this is interesting.  But it doesn't answer the original
> >> question!
> >>>
> >>> I don't have a need for a 100meg full duplex backhaul solution.  20
> > megs
> >>
> >>> both ways will do just fine for now.
> >>>
> >>> What ideas do y'all have for a 20+ meg backhaul solution.  Something
> > less

Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

[Robert West]

Yeah, locks up.  But again, I haven't tried it but from what I've read I'll
pass on it.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

>It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself.

What is "it"?  Referring to dual nstreme?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums.  The solution they
> had is the same as Josh here says.  It tends to fall on its face at times
> although I never tried it for myself.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
>
> I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups.
>
> Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links.  Personally done
> with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four
> bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges).
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess
> wrote:
>
> > Don't know what that means?  I am assuming that you had some lockups
> > while using dual nstream.  Don't think that was part of the
> > conversation.  I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or
> > Static-Routed link is well documented.
> >
> > ---
> > Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> > WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
> > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> > WISPA Vendor Member
> > Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
> > LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
> > Author of "Learn RouterOS"
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
> >
> > So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a
> > coincidentally solved by changing the config..?
> >
> > On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess  wrote:
> > > OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented,
> > > but I don't think he needs that.  I would just put up a link and be
> > > happy!  Keep in mind, installation is key to a quality and reliable
> > > link!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:39 PM
> > > To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
> > >
> > > Assuming you can get 40mhz of 5ghz spectrum and not need it anymore,
> > > MT is great and it's cheap. Finding that 40mhz is your major concern.
> > >
> > > I am running two backhauls, each with two pairs of radios (that's
> > > 40mhz of spectrum) and they're 99% awesome.  Don't use the 532/333
> > > (433ah IMO) or dual nstreme (use Butch's pseudo fdx OSPF) and you'll
> > > get that .999%.
> > >
> > > On 9/16/09, Scott Carullo  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Marlon,
> > >>
> > >> I haven't seen every post on this thread but have been keeping eye on
> > > it at
> > >> a distance...
> > >>
> > >> Why would you not want to use a MT solution for about $500 for the
> > > link
> > >> with the ability to easily go 30/60MB depending on 20/40Mhz channel.
> > > I'd
> > >> say its proven there are a multitude of people that use the gear for
> > >> backhaul on this list and any of t

Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

[Robert West]

Looks nice.  Thanks Butch!


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 11:23 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: 
> Have Butch set it up in a few minutes or read the documentation and get it
> going yourself.  Well worth it.

http://blog.butchevans.com/2008/10/using-ospf-to-create-full-duplex-behaviou
r-for-wireless-links/ 

I believe it is still on my other website at http://www.butchevans.com/
in an article.  Both of these predate the Mikrotik Wiki.  I have used
this approach many times and it just simply works.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *






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Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

[Robert West]

Okay, so for the grant they MUST provide the bandwidth for the same price
they are paying for it???  But are they then able to throw a bunch of BS
fees on top of it?  If they have to provide at the same price, then it's not
bad but I suspect it will be more cumbersome.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

>In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to
>provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the
>masses.  That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband
>is for their system.  

If it's a middle mile application, they would be in violation of their
funding contract if they bandwidth wasn't available to you for the same
price that they're buying it for -- IMO, you would win either way

1. You get access to cheap bandwidth for the same price as them
2. They deny you access, you report them to the government, they get
audited, shut down, thrown in jail, you have one less competitor, and you
get to buy their system for pennies on the dollar =)

-Charles


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM
To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't  
really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want  
you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on.

For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in  
for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well  
tough.

If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes  
to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale  
access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just  
seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their  
usual games with this stuff and block the intent.

So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how  
they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the  
provider is willing to and interested in doing so.

Chuck


On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote:

> Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open  
> their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule?
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Chuck Bartosch 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400
>
>> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you  
>> don't
>> think it's a good plan.
>>
>> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that  
>> explicitly
>> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over  
>> about
>> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over
>> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage
>> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you
>> can find it on line.
>>
>> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are  
>> instructed
>> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this.
>>
>> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms
>> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any
>> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's.
>>
>> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out
>> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach  
>> you're
>> suggesting as I understood the circular.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>
>>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan.
>>> The
>>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer
>>> money
>>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and
>>> adhere to the NOFA rules.  If you think you can do a better plan,
>>> but didn;t
>>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get
>>> approved
>>> if its less good?
>>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA
>>> what we
>>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the
>>> public that
>>> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects.
>>>
>>> I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that
>>> targeted
>>> truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider
>>> infrastructure. I plan to support those projects.
>>> For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that
>>> would
>>> directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets.  I
>>> plan to
>>> protest that 20%.  Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre-
>>> existing
>>> providers or called t

[WISPA] 2.4 Sector Recommendations

[Robert West]

Looking for recommendations for 2.4ghz sector antennas, cheap of course.  

Thanks!

Robert West




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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

Another unfunded mandate.  If I were to provide net neutral broadband the
price would be $120 per meg.  Maybe my customers would understand if I
explained how it's net neutral.

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

 

It's back

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,552503,00.html?test=latestnews






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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

Yup.  We pay almost 800 bucks for 20/20 meg.  To not do any shaping we would
have to charge way more than anyone will pay.  Take the 800 bucks split by
20 then add overhead costs and it's too much to bear.  Bandwidth that will
handle 500+ customers with shaping would then, if totally net neutral, only
go to 20 customers or less.  To be true net neutral is just to pass all the
traffic through with no touching it.  Reasonable network management, as Josh
says, is pretty broad in definition.  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 3:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

Who's definition of unreasonable...

On 9/19/09, Jack Unger  wrote:
> The proposal doesn't say you have to provide unlimited bandwidth.
> Reasonable network management policies are allowed.
>
> Robert West wrote:
>> Another unfunded mandate.  If I were to provide net neutral broadband the
>> price would be $120 per meg.  Maybe my customers would understand if I
>> explained how it's net neutral.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Blair Davis
>> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:02 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>>
>>
>>
>> It's back
>>
>> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,552503,00.html?test=latestnews
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>


>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
> www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
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>
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>


-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle




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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

Ah...  I "thought" it also regulated bandwidth shaping.  My error if this is
not part of it.

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 5:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

 

Congress and the FCC would define "reasonable". It's their job to write the
laws and make the rules. 

Net neutrality (NN) is about "free speech". NN would prohibit your carrier
from delaying your packets or shutting off your service because they didn't
like what you had to say or what web site you wanted to surf or post to. NN
is "anti-censorship" therefore NN is "pro-freedom". 

If you write a letter to your local newspaper, the editor can refuse to
print it. WITHOUT Net Neutrality, your carrier can decide to block your
packets. Net neutrality is about remaining a free nation. What's not to like
about that?


Josh Luthman wrote: 

Who's definition of unreasonable...
 
On 9/19/09, Jack Unger  <mailto:jun...@ask-wi.com> 
wrote:
  

The proposal doesn't say you have to provide unlimited bandwidth.
Reasonable network management policies are allowed.
 
Robert West wrote:


Another unfunded mandate.  If I were to provide net neutral broadband the
price would be $120 per meg.  Maybe my customers would understand if I
explained how it's net neutral.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
 
 
 
It's back
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,552503,00.html?test=latestnews
 
 
 
 
 


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--
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
 
 
 
 
 



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Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

[Robert West]

Not with multiple lan and at 50 bucks.

Why not Linksys?  You can always put third party firmware on it if you want.
I use DD-WRT on them when I have use one.  I've even taken a few of them out
of the factory case and put them in other boxes with the CPE.  At 55 bucks,
they are certainly cheap and with the DD-WRT, they are much more
configurable.

Robert West
Just Micro digital Services Inc.









-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

Mikrotik?

Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:36 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Router suggestions

I'm looking for suggestions on an 802.11 router with multiple LAN ports
where I can disable the NAT capability...  making it a bridge.  I used
to use the TrendNet TEW-452BRP, but it's EOL and the TEW-633GR is too
expensive ($100).  I'm looking for something in the $30 - $45 area.

No Linksys, I don't want to tarnish my name.  :-p


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





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Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

[Robert West]

Never saw that one.  Looks to be the thing!  Would be my pick.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

Rb750 for $40 with PS

Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

Too expensive for a home router.  I do use them most everywhere else, 
though.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Gino Villarini" 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 4:57 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

> Mikrotik?
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:36 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Router suggestions
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on an 802.11 router with multiple LAN
ports
> where I can disable the NAT capability...  making it a bridge.  I used
> to use the TrendNet TEW-452BRP, but it's EOL and the TEW-633GR is too
> expensive ($100).  I'm looking for something in the $30 - $45 area.
>
> No Linksys, I don't want to tarnish my name.  :-p
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>

> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

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>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

[Robert West]

That's why I change the firmware.  I have 2 hotels running a bunch of
Linksys 160n's with dd-wrt for the past 4 years with no issues.  At the
time, was the cheapest solution and it's paid off for me.  They take care of
themselves and they all reboot once a week automatically.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

Something like 80% of the time I've been to a network had Linksys, it's been

broken.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



------
From: "Robert West" 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:08 PM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

> Not with multiple lan and at 50 bucks.
>
> Why not Linksys?  You can always put third party firmware on it if you 
> want.
> I use DD-WRT on them when I have use one.  I've even taken a few of them 
> out
> of the factory case and put them in other boxes with the CPE.  At 55 
> bucks,
> they are certainly cheap and with the DD-WRT, they are much more
> configurable.
>
> Robert West
> Just Micro digital Services Inc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Gino Villarini
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:58 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions
>
> Mikrotik?
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:36 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Router suggestions
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on an 802.11 router with multiple LAN ports
> where I can disable the NAT capability...  making it a bridge.  I used
> to use the TrendNet TEW-452BRP, but it's EOL and the TEW-633GR is too
> expensive ($100).  I'm looking for something in the $30 - $45 area.
>
> No Linksys, I don't want to tarnish my name.  :-p
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
>

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>
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>


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Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

[Robert West]

I bought a bunch of those a year ago for 6 bucks each.  They use the Ralink
chip.  A year ago the drivers were a mess but run okay now, at least the
ones I still have.  Mine are black, not white.  Small though.  The driver
also supports 5ghz so I thought maybe the ralink chip supported both and the
5 was disabled.  I never got around to looking into that, would have been
nice to have a usb adapter that was dual band and under 10 bucks.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

http://www.edimax.us/
EW-7207APg
-RickG

On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Mike Hammett 
wrote:
> I'm looking for suggestions on an 802.11 router with multiple LAN ports
where I can disable the NAT capability...  making it a bridge.  I used to
use the TrendNet TEW-452BRP, but it's EOL and the TEW-633GR is too expensive
($100).  I'm looking for something in the $30 - $45 area.
>
> No Linksys, I don't want to tarnish my name.  :-p
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

[Robert West]

You got it.  Good in a pinch but not for customers.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:50 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

So no more than any other USB dongle like H1N1 vs. any other flu that has 
ever existed?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Mike" 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:11 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

> In my experience NO USB wireless dongle has been without their
> problems.  I avoid them like H1N1.
>
>
> At 09:47 PM 9/20/2009, you wrote:
>>I bought a bunch of those a year ago for 6 bucks each.  They use the 
>>Ralink
>>chip.  A year ago the drivers were a mess but run okay now, at least the
>>ones I still have.  Mine are black, not white.  Small though.  The driver
>>also supports 5ghz so I thought maybe the ralink chip supported both and 
>>the
>>5 was disabled.  I never got around to looking into that, would have been
>>nice to have a usb adapter that was dual band and under 10 bucks.
>>
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of RickG
>>Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:40 PM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions
>>
>>http://www.edimax.us/
>>EW-7207APg
>>-RickG
>>
>>On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Mike Hammett 
>>wrote:
>> > I'm looking for suggestions on an 802.11 router with multiple LAN ports
>>where I can disable the NAT capability...  making it a bridge.  I used to
>>use the TrendNet TEW-452BRP, but it's EOL and the TEW-633GR is too 
>>expensive
>>($100).  I'm looking for something in the $30 - $45 area.
>> >
>> > No Linksys, I don't want to tarnish my name.  :-p
>> >
>> >
>> > -
>> > Mike Hammett
>> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> > http://www.ics-il.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>--
--
>>
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>>--
--
>>
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
--
>>
>>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>http://signup.wispa.org/
>>--
--
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>--
--
>>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>--
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>>
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>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

[Robert West]

We're a Linksys dealer but the new routers suck, in my opinion.  Better than
the belkin or netgear though so for home use, they are fine.  We keep stock
firmware on the home users and the new ones don't support DD-WRT for the
most part anyhow.  And yeah, it's easy to walk them through things over the
phone with the Linksys, the netgears are a nightmare with their auto-config
crap.  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Kevin Neal
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:04 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

WRT54G post Cisco buyout, yes, major major problems.
One of the things I tell our customers when we sell them the WRT54GL is:
 We've been in this business and been through a lot of different routers and
these WRT54GL's have the best proven track record in our experience.  There
may be other products from all kinds of vendors that may work just as well,
but we have experience with these and KNOW they work well.

These are routers we purchase and keep in stock on all of our trucks and at
our office to sell, we don't load any custom firmware on them, and rarely do
we have to walk someone through upgrading the firmware.  I have had a few
problems with customers having FTP issues though, the quick fix is to update
the firmware in the router, if that fails we always have DD-WRT or Tomato.


-Kevin


On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Mike Hammett
wrote:

> Something like 80% of the time I've been to a network had Linksys, it's
> been
> broken.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Robert West" 
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:08 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions
>
> > Not with multiple lan and at 50 bucks.
> >
> > Why not Linksys?  You can always put third party firmware on it if you
> > want.
> > I use DD-WRT on them when I have use one.  I've even taken a few of them
> > out
> > of the factory case and put them in other boxes with the CPE.  At 55
> > bucks,
> > they are certainly cheap and with the DD-WRT, they are much more
> > configurable.
> >
> > Robert West
> > Just Micro digital Services Inc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Gino Villarini
> > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:58 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions
> >
> > Mikrotik?
> >
> > Gino A. Villarini
> > g...@aeronetpr.com
> > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> > tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:36 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: [WISPA] Router suggestions
> >
> > I'm looking for suggestions on an 802.11 router with multiple LAN ports
> > where I can disable the NAT capability...  making it a bridge.  I used
> > to use the TrendNet TEW-452BRP, but it's EOL and the TEW-633GR is too
> > expensive ($100).  I'm looking for something in the $30 - $45 area.
> >
> > No Linksys, I don't want to tarnish my name.  :-p
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
>

> > 
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Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

[Robert West]

Hot glue in the reset hole and a bit of black tape over it hides it enough
to discourage the resets.  :)



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:05 AM
To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

It's got a similar reset process to a Linksys, hold reset button while
cycling power.

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Carullo
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions


I view the money for Mikrotik gear as a sound investment, due to its 
versatility. I don't mind paying a bit more for it rather than dlink, 
netgear, trend etc...  Also - the RB750 can't be reset by typical user 
pushing the reset button - I hate that.  Oh, it doesn't work lets hit
reset 
button then they say they didn't touch it.  Further more, the additional

built in tools and flexibility make it an easy buy for me.  I have
thrown 
away loads of linksys, dlink etc gear that starts acting up or craps
out. I 
have never thrown away a MT for acting up or crapping out from normal
use 
through the years.

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102

 Original Message 
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions
> 
> If that new router had wireless it would be a 40 dollar piece of 
awesomeness.
> 
> On 9/20/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> > Too expensive for a home router.  I do use them most everywhere
else,
> > though.
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From: "Gino Villarini" 
> > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 4:57 PM
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions
> >
> >> Mikrotik?
> >>
> >> Gino A. Villarini
> >> g...@aeronetpr.com
> >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> >> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
On
> >> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:36 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: [WISPA] Router suggestions
> >>
> >> I'm looking for suggestions on an 802.11 router with multiple LAN 
ports
> >> where I can disable the NAT capability...  making it a bridge.  I 
used
> >> to use the TrendNet TEW-452BRP, but it's EOL and the TEW-633GR is
too
> >> expensive ($100).  I'm looking for something in the $30 - $45 area.
> >>
> >> No Linksys, I don't want to tarnish my name.  :-p
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> Mike Hammett
> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >> http://www.ics-il.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 

> >> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> 

> >> 
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >> 



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> >
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> > 



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> 
> -- 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
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> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

[Robert West]

Who do you use as a distributor?  We used to go with Ma-Labs but their
prices crept up too high on most of the things we purchased.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:19 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

I have used these without problems.
http://www.encore-usa.com/product_item.php?region=us&bid=2&pgid=82_10&pid=42
8

They have an option to do bridging, but I have never used it. They are not a
big name brand, but for less than $40 wholesale, I can't complain.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "Mike Hammett" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:35:42 -0500

>I'm looking for suggestions on an 802.11 router with multiple LAN ports
where I can disable the NAT capability...  making it a bridge.  I used to
use the TrendNet TEW-452BRP, but it's EOL and the TEW-633GR is too expensive
($100).  I'm looking for something in the $30 - $45 area.
>
>No Linksys, I don't want to tarnish my name.  :-p
>
>
>-
>Mike Hammett
>Intelligent Computing Solutions
>http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

[Robert West]

The old power supplies were decent and I still have them around here but the
new ones are small and pop easily.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions

Not sure if Linksys has fixed it, but we determined a while back the 
lockup problem with them was the lack of robustness in their power 
supply.  They work fine in the city where the electricity doesn't sag 
or spike, but in the country they are always locking up.  Wind blows 
trees against lines, farmer turns on huge corn dryer ...

At 11:13 PM 9/20/2009, you wrote:
>We're a Linksys dealer but the new routers suck, in my opinion.  Better
than
>the belkin or netgear though so for home use, they are fine.  We keep stock
>firmware on the home users and the new ones don't support DD-WRT for the
>most part anyhow.  And yeah, it's easy to walk them through things over the
>phone with the Linksys, the netgears are a nightmare with their auto-config
>crap.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Kevin Neal
>Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:04 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions
>
>WRT54G post Cisco buyout, yes, major major problems.
>One of the things I tell our customers when we sell them the WRT54GL is:
>  We've been in this business and been through a lot of different routers
and
>these WRT54GL's have the best proven track record in our experience.  There
>may be other products from all kinds of vendors that may work just as well,
>but we have experience with these and KNOW they work well.
>
>These are routers we purchase and keep in stock on all of our trucks and at
>our office to sell, we don't load any custom firmware on them, and rarely
do
>we have to walk someone through upgrading the firmware.  I have had a few
>problems with customers having FTP issues though, the quick fix is to
update
>the firmware in the router, if that fails we always have DD-WRT or Tomato.
>
>
>-Kevin
>
>
>On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Mike Hammett
>wrote:
>
> > Something like 80% of the time I've been to a network had Linksys, it's
> > been
> > broken.
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From: "Robert West" 
> > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:08 PM
> > To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions
> >
> > > Not with multiple lan and at 50 bucks.
> > >
> > > Why not Linksys?  You can always put third party firmware on it if you
> > > want.
> > > I use DD-WRT on them when I have use one.  I've even taken a few of
them
> > > out
> > > of the factory case and put them in other boxes with the CPE.  At 55
> > > bucks,
> > > they are certainly cheap and with the DD-WRT, they are much more
> > > configurable.
> > >
> > > Robert West
> > > Just Micro digital Services Inc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> > > Behalf Of Gino Villarini
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:58 PM
> > > To: WISPA General List
> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Router suggestions
> > >
> > > Mikrotik?
> > >
> > > Gino A. Villarini
> > > g...@aeronetpr.com
> > > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> > > tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> > > Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:36 PM
> > > To: WISPA General List
> > > Subject: [WISPA] Router suggestions
> > >
> > > I'm looking for suggestions on an 802.11 router with multiple LAN
ports
> > > where I can disable the NAT capability...  making it a bridge.  I used
> > > to use the TrendNet TEW-452BRP, but it's EOL and the TEW-633GR is too
> > > expensive ($100).  I'm looking for something in the $30 - $45 area.
> > >
> > > No Linksys, I don't want to tarnish my name.  :-p
> > >
> &g

[WISPA] Crown Castle Tower Space Leasing

[Robert West]

Does anyone here lease space from Crown Castle?  I have a cell tower in an
area I've been trying to find access in and this tower is in a good spot for
us and our tier 1 provider has fiber running right across the road from it.


Any idea what they charge and issues with them?  Looks to be a big company
so I doubt they will lease cheaply.

Thanks!

Bob-





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Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle Tower Space Leasing

[Robert West]

That's just crazy money.  I can put up a used 160' tower for 2 grand plus a
500 buck permit here.  I decided to just look for some land.  With that kind
of money it just makes sense to own and not lease around here.  I have 3
towers in storage but have been hesitant to do much with them.  

Thanks for the response.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Kevin Neal
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:59 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle Tower Space Leasing

Last I looked, 3 sectors and 2 2' backhauls would be $1800/mo+.  For a
single sector and one backhaul it was still over $1000/mo.
-Kevin


On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Does anyone here lease space from Crown Castle?  I have a cell tower in an
> area I've been trying to find access in and this tower is in a good spot
> for
> us and our tier 1 provider has fiber running right across the road from
it.
>
>
> Any idea what they charge and issues with them?  Looks to be a big company
> so I doubt they will lease cheaply.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle Tower Space Leasing

[Robert West]

I need to hang a pac grid and a MT 411 board and run a cat5 line up to it.
Seems like an engineering study is way overkill!  :)



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:11 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle Tower Space Leasing

I have found the leasing relatively cheap.  The expensive parts are the 
engineering studies, application fees, and the 
almost-impossible-to-afford insurance you'll need before putting 
anything on the tower.  FWIW, Crown Castle is offering a Wispa 
discount. They are waiving the site application fees for WISPA 
members (around $1000 per site IIRC).  Wispa sent out an ad 8/21 about 
it.  I'd copy it here, but it was all included in a bunch of  awful 
image files.

Randy


Robert West wrote:
> Does anyone here lease space from Crown Castle?  I have a cell tower in an
> area I've been trying to find access in and this tower is in a good spot
for
> us and our tier 1 provider has fiber running right across the road from
it.
>
>
> Any idea what they charge and issues with them?  Looks to be a big company
> so I doubt they will lease cheaply.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>


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>


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>   

-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

work: 435-773-6071
email: rco...@infowest.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby





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Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

[Robert West]

I wonder how many large companies have paid their employees to be
volunteers???  

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

 

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. 

I see a potential conflict of interest issue here. An employee of a large
telecom company could be a volunteer who reviews applications received from
WISPs and rejects them. As long as the reviewer wasn't "involved" in the
large telecom company's application and the WISP applications that they
rejected weren't in the same or nearby coverage areas as the large telecom
company's applications then all is OK? I think NOT. 

The BTOP/BIP protections against anti-competitive behavior seem far too
weak. Maybe my prejudices are showing here but all along I've felt that the
government should have planned to do its own application review work instead
of delegating this task to "volunteers". I see this "volunteer" process as
being a wide-open door for corruption. 

jack


David E. Smith wrote: 

Charles Wu wrote:
  

Hi David,
 
While I applaud your efforts in being involved with the broadband stimulus,
it is my understanding that MVN.net is/was applying for stimulus funds for
Round 1 -- maybe I'm missing something, but I can't figure out how you'd be
able to over-come the conflict of interest clauses?


 
If we're applying, the boss never told me about it.
 
Also, it is, according to the little PowerPoint presentation they made 
reviewers watch, permissible to work for a company that's applying for a 
grant, and also to be a grant reviewer. You can't be personally involved 
in the grant application, of course, and you're expected to 
conflict-of-interest yourself out of anything that's even close to your 
current or proposed coverage area.
 
David Smith
MVN.net
 
 


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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
 
 
 
 
 



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Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

[Robert West]

That's the one I have issue with.  That would cause me to think I need a 1
to 1 ratio on bandwidth or at least close to it.  This one item brings the
cause for metered bandwidth to the top of my list of things to push for.
Honestly, I'd rather not meter the bandwidth just for the sake of image but
if this goes through, what other choice would there be?  Would certainly
take away a lot of headaches.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

http://openinternet.gov/read-speech.html

In addition to the four classic "Network neutrality" principles, the FCC 
plans to pursue two more. Quotes from the speech:

* "The fifth principle is one of non-discrimination -- stating that 
broadband providers cannot discriminate against particular Internet 
content or applications."
* "The sixth principle is a transparency principle -- stating that 
providers of broadband Internet access must be transparent about their 
network management practices."

I love the sixth one, but number five gives me the willies. "Nope, 
doesn't matter that BitTorrent users bring your network to its knees, 
you're not allowed to do anything about it." Please tell me I'm missing 
something.

David Smith
MVN.net





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Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

[Robert West]

Isn't the 28th amendment the right to keep and bear firewalls?



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

They can pry my firewall from my cold, dead hands. -RickG

On 9/21/09, David E. Smith  wrote:
> http://openinternet.gov/read-speech.html
>
> In addition to the four classic "Network neutrality" principles, the FCC
> plans to pursue two more. Quotes from the speech:
>
> * "The fifth principle is one of non-discrimination -- stating that
> broadband providers cannot discriminate against particular Internet
> content or applications."
> * "The sixth principle is a transparency principle -- stating that
> providers of broadband Internet access must be transparent about their
> network management practices."
>
> I love the sixth one, but number five gives me the willies. "Nope,
> doesn't matter that BitTorrent users bring your network to its knees,
> you're not allowed to do anything about it." Please tell me I'm missing
> something.
>
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

[Robert West]

With the possible exception of Australia, I don't think anyone has a true
transparent internet.  All governments, including the US, have their
blacklist.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:50 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

LOL! Can we get that through congress :)
What is so sad is that the government claims thery want transparency
yet they do the opposite.
What I want to know from anyone here is what and how do you block
specific content. Thats for the hosting companies, not the access
providers.
-RickG

On 9/21/09, Robert West  wrote:
> Isn't the 28th amendment the right to keep and bear firewalls?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:37 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for
>
> They can pry my firewall from my cold, dead hands. -RickG
>
> On 9/21/09, David E. Smith  wrote:
> > http://openinternet.gov/read-speech.html
> >
> > In addition to the four classic "Network neutrality" principles, the FCC
> > plans to pursue two more. Quotes from the speech:
> >
> > * "The fifth principle is one of non-discrimination -- stating that
> > broadband providers cannot discriminate against particular Internet
> > content or applications."
> > * "The sixth principle is a transparency principle -- stating that
> > providers of broadband Internet access must be transparent about their
> > network management practices."
> >
> > I love the sixth one, but number five gives me the willies. "Nope,
> > doesn't matter that BitTorrent users bring your network to its knees,
> > you're not allowed to do anything about it." Please tell me I'm missing
> > something.
> >
> > David Smith
> > MVN.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

> 
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> >
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> >
>
>
>

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Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

[Robert West]

Limiting the number of packets would indeed be the neutral way, in my
opinion.  But what problems would that cause with Voip and video?  You
certainly have to give priority to Voip.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

If you're rate limiting in a neutral way, why would it bring your  
network to its knees? Doesn't matter who the packets are coming from  
or going to if you rate limit the total number of packets a user can  
generate/receive, right?

Chuck

On Sep 21, 2009, at 12:33 PM, David E. Smith wrote:

> http://openinternet.gov/read-speech.html
>
> In addition to the four classic "Network neutrality" principles, the  
> FCC
> plans to pursue two more. Quotes from the speech:
>
> * "The fifth principle is one of non-discrimination -- stating that
> broadband providers cannot discriminate against particular Internet
> content or applications."
> * "The sixth principle is a transparency principle -- stating that
> providers of broadband Internet access must be transparent about their
> network management practices."
>
> I love the sixth one, but number five gives me the willies. "Nope,
> doesn't matter that BitTorrent users bring your network to its knees,
> you're not allowed to do anything about it." Please tell me I'm  
> missing
> something.
>
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
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>
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--
Chuck Bartosch
Clarity Connect, Inc.
200 Pleasant Grove Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
(607) 257-8268

"When the stars threw down their spears,
and water'd heaven with their tears,
Did He smile, His work to see?
Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"

 From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!







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Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle Tower Space Leasing

[Robert West]

Yeah, here it's just a 500 buck inspection fee for a communications tower.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle Tower Space Leasing

> I can put up a used 160' tower for 2 grand plus a
> 500 buck permit here

Depend on the location. In my town, it will cost $17,000 minimum just for 
the first phase of a special exception process with County Zoning.
Then what if you need to get up 300-400ft?  300-400ft towers are way more 
expensive to build, and to get permission to build.
And in this county a lot large enough to qualify for a tower cant be had for

anything less than about $500k.  The county property tax alone for the site 
would easilly be $8000/year.

Sure if you live in remote rural America, where a lot can be had for $4-5K, 
and 150ft tower will do, where there is no one that can see the tower except

for the people that NEED your service, (so no one to protest), sure building

your own may be the way to go.
But if you live in that type area, you can use that arguement to negotiate a

lower price for colocation.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Robert West" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle Tower Space Leasing


> That's just crazy money.  I can put up a used 160' tower for 2 grand plus 
> a
> 500 buck permit here.  I decided to just look for some land.  With that 
> kind
> of money it just makes sense to own and not lease around here.  I have 3
> towers in storage but have been hesitant to do much with them.
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Kevin Neal
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:59 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Crown Castle Tower Space Leasing
>
> Last I looked, 3 sectors and 2 2' backhauls would be $1800/mo+.  For a
> single sector and one backhaul it was still over $1000/mo.
> -Kevin
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone here lease space from Crown Castle?  I have a cell tower in 
>> an
>> area I've been trying to find access in and this tower is in a good spot
>> for
>> us and our tier 1 provider has fiber running right across the road from
> it.
>>
>>
>> Any idea what they charge and issues with them?  Looks to be a big 
>> company
>> so I doubt they will lease cheaply.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>
>

> 
>>
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>>
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>
>
>

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Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

[Robert West]

Well, you know  some of those virus's may be important to the person who
is downloading them.  Who am I to judge?



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Profito
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:01 PM
To: sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

OH GOOD POINT!!! 
How could we dare discriminate against the poor troublemakers and doo doo
gooders, phishers and thieves? 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

Lets go ahead and let all the viruses and spam through too.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "David E. Smith" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:33:26 -0500

>http://openinternet.gov/read-speech.html
>
>In addition to the four classic "Network neutrality" principles, the FCC 
>plans to pursue two more. Quotes from the speech:
>
>* "The fifth principle is one of non-discrimination -- stating that 
>broadband providers cannot discriminate against particular Internet 
>content or applications."
>* "The sixth principle is a transparency principle -- stating that 
>providers of broadband Internet access must be transparent about their 
>network management practices."
>
>I love the sixth one, but number five gives me the willies. "Nope, 
>doesn't matter that BitTorrent users bring your network to its knees, 
>you're not allowed to do anything about it." Please tell me I'm missing 
>something.
>
>David Smith
>MVN.net
>
>
>
>---
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>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>
>

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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

ill pass and what content they
>
> won't pass.
>
>
>
> If ISPs practice active bandwidth management then they should not need
>
> to practice content management. ISPs should not be able to tell me (or
>
> you) what we can or can't send or who we can or can not send it to or
>
> receive it from.
>
>
>
> I think I stated that very clearly. Do you agree?
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> jack
>
>
>
>
>
> John Vogel wrote:
>
>
>
> Free speech itself is not so much the issue, as presented by most who
>
> would argue for net neutrality, but rather application/traffic type. If
>
> it were not for the change in the way network traffic has evolved,
>
> moving from a bursty/intermittent type of traffic to a constant, high
>
> bit rate streaming, there would probably not be much of an issue, as
>
> most ISPs don't really care so much what you say or view over their
>
> networks. Those ISPs who have fallen afoul of the NN advocates have done
>
> so primarily because they were attempting to address a particular type
>
> of traffic pattern, rather than whatever content may have been
>
> transmitted in that traffic pattern. (e.g. bittorrent, lots of
>
> connections, constant streaming at high bandwidth utilization)
>
>
>
> Although I hesitate to use analogies... If I own a public restaurant, I
>
> reserve the right to refuse service to anybody who is determined to
>
> converse with other patrons in that restaurant by shouting everything
>
> they say, Likewise, if they choose to communicate using smoke signals,
>
> (cigarette or otherwise) I or the State/City have rules regarding that,
>
> and will restrict their speech in that manner. What they are
>
> communicating is immaterial. While they DO have a right to free speech,
>
> arguing that they should be allowed to communicate that speech via smoke
>
> signals, and subsequent complaints about the infringement of their free
>
> speech right by restricting the way in which they choose to communicate
>
> is somewhat disingenuous.
>
>
>
> There are really two different issues in play here. Conflating them
>
> under the banner of free speech does not address both issues adequately.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> Jack Unger wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> The government is actually protecting your freedom to access any
>
> Internet content you choose and your freedom to say whatever you want to
>
> say.
>
>
>
> The arguement that you can just move to another ISP is false because, as
>
> most WISPs know, many rural citizens don't have ANY ISP or maybe just
>
> one wireless ISP to choose from therefore they can't just "move to
>
> another ISP if the first ISP doesn't like what they have to say and
>
> shuts them off. Further, even if you have more than one ISP, how are you
>
> going to get the news or get your opinions out if BOTH ISPs (or ALL
>
> ISPs) disagree with your opinion and shut you off.
>
>
>
> Your arguement is like saying "I enjoy Free Speech" right now but I
>
> don't want the government to interfere in order to protect my Free
>
> Speech when AT&T doesn't like what I have to say and shuts my Internet
>
> service off. If AT&T wants to take your Free Speech away then you are
>
> saying to the Government "Hey, let them take it! I'd rather lose my
>
> freedom then have you telling AT&T what to do. STOP protecting my Free
>
> Speech right now!!!".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike Hammett wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What I don't like about it is another case of the government telling me
what to do.  More regulations is less freedom.  If someone doesn't like the
way ISP A operates, move to ISP B.  If they don't like ISP B, find ISP C, or
start ISP C, or maybe you shouldn't be doing what you're wanting to in the
first place.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> Mike Hammett
>
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Jack Unger
>
> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 4:38 PM
>
> To: WISPA General List
>
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
>
>
>
>
> Congress and the FCC would define "reasonable". It's their job to write
the laws and make the rules.
>
>
>
> Net neutrality (NN) is about "free speech". NN would prohibit your carrier
from delaying your packets or shutting off your service because they didn't
like what you had to say or what web site you wanted to surf or post to. NN
is "anti-censors

Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

t;
> >
> > The arguement that you can just move to another ISP is false because, as
> >
> > most WISPs know, many rural citizens don't have ANY ISP or maybe just
> >
> > one wireless ISP to choose from therefore they can't just "move to
> >
> > another ISP if the first ISP doesn't like what they have to say and
> >
> > shuts them off. Further, even if you have more than one ISP, how are you
> >
> > going to get the news or get your opinions out if BOTH ISPs (or ALL
> >
> > ISPs) disagree with your opinion and shut you off.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your arguement is like saying "I enjoy Free Speech" right now but I
> >
> > don't want the government to interfere in order to protect my Free
> >
> > Speech when AT&T doesn't like what I have to say and shuts my Internet
> >
> > service off. If AT&T wants to take your Free Speech away then you are
> >
> > saying to the Government "Hey, let them take it! I'd rather lose my
> >
> > freedom then have you telling AT&T what to do. STOP protecting my Free
> >
> > Speech right now!!!".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Hammett wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What I don't like about it is another case of the government telling me
> what to do.  More regulations is less freedom.  If someone doesn't like
the
> way ISP A operates, move to ISP B.  If they don't like ISP B, find ISP C,
or
> start ISP C, or maybe you shouldn't be doing what you're wanting to in the
> first place.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> > Mike Hammett
> >
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Jack Unger
> >
> > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 4:38 PM
> >
> > To: WISPA General List
> >
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Congress and the FCC would define "reasonable". It's their job to write
> the laws and make the rules.
> >
> >
> >
> > Net neutrality (NN) is about "free speech". NN would prohibit your
> carrier from delaying your packets or shutting off your service because
they
> didn't like what you had to say or what web site you wanted to surf or
post
> to. NN is "anti-censorship" therefore NN is "pro-freedom".
> >
> >
> >
> > If you write a letter to your local newspaper, the editor can refuse to
> print it. WITHOUT Net Neutrality, your carrier can decide to block your
> packets. Net neutrality is about remaining a free nation. What's not to
like
> about that?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman wrote:
> >
> > Who's definition of unreasonable...
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/19/09, Jack Unger <mailto:jun...@ask-wi.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >   The proposal doesn't say you have to provide unlimited bandwidth.
> >
> > Reasonable network management policies are allowed.
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert West wrote:
> >
> > Another unfunded mandate.  If I were to provide net neutral
broadband
> the
> >
> > price would be $120 per meg.  Maybe my customers would understand if I
> >
> > explained how it's net neutral.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>
> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >
> > Behalf Of Blair Davis
> >
> > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:02 PM
> >
> > To: WISPA General List
> >
> > Subject: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It's back
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,552503,00.html?test=latestnews
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


> >
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>


> >
> >
> >
> > WISPA Wireless Lis

Re: [WISPA] OT: Rouge antispyware

[Robert West]

Okay, there is no list of sites.  We are also a retail computer repair shop
and we have been dealing with this program for over a year now.  The story
is, it's first job is to see if you design websites.  If you do and you use
something like FrontPage, it will steal your login info, go to your site
then infect your index with a script redirecting the visitor to the picture
that tells them they are infected and will deposit the infection into their
temporary folder and adds a run command in the registry.  I've also seen the
files in the Java folder and the temp and prefetch folders as well as the
software distribution folders.  If you do use a webhost, most if not all
hosting services have forced the change of passwords as well as taken away
support for FrontPage extensions, even though Microsoft did away with them
as well awhile back.  The United States post office was infected, Kroger was
infected, the YMCA, and thousands of others.  Google now pre-checks for the
infection and will actually block entry into the site until the host or
domain holder contacts Google to request a review.  Anyhow, the program
itself changes every couple of weeks or so in order to get past Norton and
the rest.  The goal is to have the infected persons click and pay cash which
is just extortion because the program they think they are buying does
nothing.  And eventually the PC cannot be used because it keeps taking away
functions.  6 months ago it was estimated that this group has amassed over 5
million dollars this way.  Last week it hit hard yet again.  We have talks
with little old ladies daily about having their bank reverse the charges but
they seem too confused to do that so the crooks keep the cash.

So the answer is no.  there is no list and can't be.  No one is safe from
these people unless we all lock down our passwords and not auto save them in
the web design software.

Also be aware that a lot of the "Personal Anti-Virus" removal tools on the
internet are also from the same people trying to get payment on both ends.
Beware.  I used to tell people that if it popped up to not click on
anything, unplug the pc totally and not to go to that site for a few days.
Clicking the X to close was a fake, the thing was actually a picture and
clicking anything installed it.  Now it auto-installs and you're screwed.

The one from the past 2 weeks has been easier.  It's been going just to the
Program Files in an PAV folder.  You have to go to safe mode, delete the
folder then go to regedit,
HKLM\software\Microsoft\windows\currentversion\run and delete anything
saying PAV or Personal Anti-Virus.  Do the same in
HKCU\software\microsoft\windows\currentversion\run AND the other step is to
go to control panel and internet options and reset internet explorer
including deleting all user settings or else the danger is that the
infection also changed your browser and will redirect you to the infection
yet again.

Been there, done that.  This thing sucks but we've made lots of cash with it
even though I hate making it from other peoples misfortune.


If you have any questions, ask cause I've been everywhere with this little
gem.





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:51 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org; motor...@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] OT: Rouge antispyware

Does anyone have a complete list of URL's that these rouge antispyware
programs use to deposit their payload? I am talking Personal Antivirus,
Windows Police Pro, Antivirus 2009, etc...

I found this site that list URL's for each separately:
http://www.spywarevoid.com/ . My idea is to block all these URL's at my
border router(while I still can...another topic). I am going to try to block
them with Mikrotik, so I guess I will need all the IP's too?

Scottie

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Re: [WISPA] OT: Rouge antispyware

[Robert West]

OpenDNS won't block it.  I run OpenDNS and still come across it because it
infects the sites you are trying to open.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Parr
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:20 PM
To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Rouge antispyware

2009/9/21 Scottie Arnett :
> Does anyone have a complete list of URL's that these rouge antispyware
programs use to deposit their payload? I am talking Personal Antivirus,
Windows Police Pro, Antivirus 2009, etc...
>
> I found this site that list URL's for each separately:
http://www.spywarevoid.com/ . My idea is to block all these URL's at my
border router(while I still can...another topic). I am going to try to block
them with Mikrotik, so I guess I will need all the IP's too?

Just run OpenDNS




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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

I think that's an excellent idea!  At least for the wireless side of things
where we have to run things tight.  

We are a bit of a different animal from Comcast and Time Warner.  Hell, some
of us use them as the upstream provider!  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

Curtis Maurand wrote:

> I think they're saying things like Time-Warner can't prioritize CNN 
> (which is owned by Time, Inc.) over MSNBC or Youtube over hulu, etc.

That may be what they mean, but that sure isn't what they're saying (or 
at least that's not what it sounds like from way up here in the peanut 
gallery).

Can anyone comment on whether WISPA plans to adopt any official position 
on this? I'm not saying "net neutrality is bad," because I adore the 
principles. I just want to be sure the FCC doesn't pass some 
overly-broad rulemaking, slanted towards bigger operators, that makes it 
difficult or impossible for smaller outfits (like mine!) to keep things 
running smoothly.

David Smith
MVN.net




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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

> >
> > > bit rate streaming, there would probably not be much of an issue, as
> > >
> > > most ISPs don't really care so much what you say or view over their
> > >
> > > networks. Those ISPs who have fallen afoul of the NN advocates have
done
> > >
> > > so primarily because they were attempting to address a particular type
> > >
> > > of traffic pattern, rather than whatever content may have been
> > >
> > > transmitted in that traffic pattern. (e.g. bittorrent, lots of
> > >
> > > connections, constant streaming at high bandwidth utilization)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Although I hesitate to use analogies... If I own a public restaurant,
I
> > >
> > > reserve the right to refuse service to anybody who is determined to
> > >
> > > converse with other patrons in that restaurant by shouting everything
> > >
> > > they say, Likewise, if they choose to communicate using smoke signals,
> > >
> > > (cigarette or otherwise) I or the State/City have rules regarding
that,
> > >
> > > and will restrict their speech in that manner. What they are
> > >
> > > communicating is immaterial. While they DO have a right to free
speech,
> > >
> > > arguing that they should be allowed to communicate that speech via
smoke
> > >
> > > signals, and subsequent complaints about the infringement of their
free
> > >
> > > speech right by restricting the way in which they choose to
communicate
> > >
> > > is somewhat disingenuous.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are really two different issues in play here. Conflating them
> > >
> > > under the banner of free speech does not address both issues
adequately.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jack Unger wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The government is actually protecting your freedom to access any
> > >
> > > Internet content you choose and your freedom to say whatever you want
to
> > >
> > > say.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The arguement that you can just move to another ISP is false because,
as
> > >
> > > most WISPs know, many rural citizens don't have ANY ISP or maybe just
> > >
> > > one wireless ISP to choose from therefore they can't just "move to
> > >
> > > another ISP if the first ISP doesn't like what they have to say and
> > >
> > > shuts them off. Further, even if you have more than one ISP, how are
you
> > >
> > > going to get the news or get your opinions out if BOTH ISPs (or ALL
> > >
> > > ISPs) disagree with your opinion and shut you off.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your arguement is like saying "I enjoy Free Speech" right now but I
> > >
> > > don't want the government to interfere in order to protect my Free
> > >
> > > Speech when AT&T doesn't like what I have to say and shuts my Internet
> > >
> > > service off. If AT&T wants to take your Free Speech away then you are
> > >
> > > saying to the Government "Hey, let them take it! I'd rather lose my
> > >
> > > freedom then have you telling AT&T what to do. STOP protecting my Free
> > >
> > > Speech right now!!!".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Hammett wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What I don't like about it is another case of the government telling
me
> > what to do.  More regulations is less freedom.  If someone doesn't like
the
> > way ISP A operates, move to ISP B.  If they don't like ISP B, 
> find ISP C, or
> > start ISP C, or maybe you shouldn't be doing what you're wanting to in
the
> > first place.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > > Mike Hammett
> > >
> > > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > >
> > > http://www.ics-il.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Jack Unger
> > >
> > > Sent: Saturday,

Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

But why wait for the FCC?  Why not be pro-active?  We already know our
concerns and we could at least list the ways we would like to see this type
of thing designed.   To just react to something isn't being the leader.  We
should be at the front of this thing.  At least that's what I feel I should
do myself.  The entire idea had to be started by someone, why not jump in
and be part of it?

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

 

David, 

Regarding WISPA plans to adopt any official position on Network
Neutrality...that process is always active but it does have a number of
steps. 

1. We've got to see what rules the FCC actually proposes. 

2. We need to get general agreement (probably a majority view since getting
complete agreement between all independent-thinking WISPA members is a darn
near impossibility) on what WISPA's official position should be. 

3. We need to either a) wait for the FCC to ask for opinions or (if our
beliefs are compelling enough) b) go to the FCC and make an Ex Parte
presentation to selected FCC employees to explain our position and what we
recommend the FCC do. 

4. Wait and see what the FCC does after we express our opinion or make our
presenation and then decide if further action on our part is needed. 

Steps 1 and 2 (above) are already in play. Watching the FCC's proposals and
listening to WISPA member opinions and ideas is happening as we participate
in this discussion. Additional work will be done by WISPA's FCC Committee to
refine WISPA's position and either write it up (Step 3) or prepare an Ex
Parte presentation. 

Funding to prepare either a written or an in-person FCC presentation comes
from the dues of WISPA members therefore it would be beneficial if those
participating in this discussion who are not WISPA members would choose to
do the right thing and become WISPA members. 

As the Chair of WISPA's FCC Committee, I will be participating in the
preparation of any FCC Comments that WISPA officially makes. While I
appreciate all input, I'm obligated to give more weight to the views of
WISPA members compared to the views of those who are not yet WISPA members. 

jack


David E. Smith wrote: 

Curtis Maurand wrote:
 
  

I think they're saying things like Time-Warner can't prioritize CNN 
(which is owned by Time, Inc.) over MSNBC or Youtube over hulu, etc.


 
That may be what they mean, but that sure isn't what they're saying (or 
at least that's not what it sounds like from way up here in the peanut 
gallery).
 
Can anyone comment on whether WISPA plans to adopt any official position 
on this? I'm not saying "net neutrality is bad," because I adore the 
principles. I just want to be sure the FCC doesn't pass some 
overly-broad rulemaking, slanted towards bigger operators, that makes it 
difficult or impossible for smaller outfits (like mine!) to keep things 
running smoothly.
 
David Smith
MVN.net
 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
 
 
 
 
 



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Re: [WISPA] Authentication Methods

[Robert West]

I've been trying to get around to FreeRADIUS.  Do you use that, Josh?  I've
been looking at Radius Manager as well and have the download but have yet to
do a darn thing with any of it.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Authentication Methods

Sounds like a job for FreeRADIUS to me.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Nick Huanca  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I currently am working on a project to develop a sustainable, manufacturer
> agnostic, easy to maintain and provision authentication system for our
ISP.
> We have a mix of access points from Alvarion, Trango, MikroTik, Canopy,
and
> others. We're currently running a distributed PPPoE model with MikroTik
> PPPoE concentrators. We're concerned about MikroTik's longevity,
> reliability
> and support as we move towards a more centralized PPPoE model where all
our
> sessions terminate at a CO. We're looking to migrate over 1,000 customers,
> currently across 15 or so concentrators, to one single concentrator with
> either load balancing or redundancy. We're also trying to keep our
> decisions
> based around a future IPv6 implementation.
>
> My question is if anyone has had any experience in deploying large scale
> PPPoE with a centralized methodology. I have investigated the Open Source
> options such as rp-pppoe and others but have found that they don't offer
> any
> load-balancing or redundancy options, which are important considerations
> when moving to a centralized model. These packages also don't offer any
> type
> of integrated rate-limiting or burst-limiting based on RADIUS. Does anyone
> have any experience with other types of centralized authentication for
> customers that support IPv6 and include integration of
> rate-limiting/bursting?
>
> I have reached out to a Cisco integrator, ImageStream, Fine Point
> Technologies (http://www.finepoint.com/servpoet.html), and some others to
> find solutions.
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> --
> Nick Huanca
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

[Robert West]

Uh..  That seems to be double speak.  Isn't putting priority on
something de-prioritizing the things under it?

That's government for you.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

Right, which is why I phrased it that way.  You can't deprioritize anything,

but you can prioritize anything (based upon what I've read on this list). 
They accomplish the same thing, but at face value, one is permissible the 
other is not.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jeff Broadwick" 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:53 PM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for

> You'd have to ask the FCC.  Seems like it's the opposite side of the same
> coin.
>
> Jeff
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:51 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for
>
> What's the difference between prioritizing all traditional services above
> other and deprioritizing the "bad" ones below other?
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Broadwick" 
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:07 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for
>
>> The FCC has said that you cannot de-prioritize any type of traffic.  You
>> have to do it by prioritizing other types of traffic.
>>
>> Jeff
>> ImageStream
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:53 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for
>>
>> I read the Fifth as I cannot discriminate - meaning block this but not
>> that.
>> It says nothing about shaping.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of David E. Smith
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:33 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] The Net Neutrality speech we've all been waiting for
>>
>> http://openinternet.gov/read-speech.html
>>
>> In addition to the four classic "Network neutrality" principles, the FCC
>> plans to pursue two more. Quotes from the speech:
>>
>> * "The fifth principle is one of non-discrimination -- stating that
>> broadband providers cannot discriminate against particular Internet
>> content
>> or applications."
>> * "The sixth principle is a transparency principle -- stating that
>> providers
>> of broadband Internet access must be transparent about their network
>> management practices."
>>
>> I love the sixth one, but number five gives me the willies. "Nope, 
>> doesn't
>> matter that BitTorrent users bring your network to its knees, you're not
>> allowed to do anything about it." Please tell me I'm missing something.
>>
>> David Smith
>> MVN.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>

>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

>> 
>>
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>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

> 
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
>

> 
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>

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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

Was a joke.  But some who need porn in the morning..  that's just weird.


But again, who am I to judge?!  

(Is there really a superhotstoffhere.com)



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:48 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

Some of us don't need porn every morning and those that do won't admit nor
complain about it.  Saves us bandwidth.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Robert West
wrote:

> Why do you put superhotstuffhere.com as 8?  Some of us count on that every
> morning.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:26 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
> Just needed to be worded based on service or type of traffic not
> destination.
>
> All TOS byte 184 traffic priority 1
>
> All DNS priority 2
>
> All HTTP priority 4
>
> etc...
>
> WE DO NOT want
>
> cnn.com, twcbc.com, abc.com priority 1
>
> google.com yahoo.com priority 2
>
> whitehouse.com superhotstuffhere.com priority 8
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Curtis Maurand 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > I think you're all jumping to conclusions.  There will be
> > modifications.  You will probably find that you'll be able to limit
> > outgoing bittorrent and block spam from botnetted machines, block
> > illegal activity, etc.  How do you determine illegal bittorrent
> > (uploading of copyrighted content, etc.) from legal  (uploading of GNU
> > licensed open source)?   There lies the big question.
> >
> > I think they're saying things like Time-Warner can't prioritize CNN
> > (which is owned by Time, Inc.) over MSNBC or Youtube over hulu, etc.  I
> > still say they should allow you to prioritize VOIP over everything else.
> > IMHO
> >
> > --Curtis
> >
> >
> > Jerry Richardson wrote:
> > > I can't agree more.
> > >
> > > "Blocking" (0 bits passed) is constitutionally wrong IMO.  Since I can
> no
> > longer distinguish legal traffic from illegal traffic I have to allow it
> > all.
> > >
> > > Shaping/Throttling/Caps is not only 100% within my rights, but as an
> ISP
> > is prudent and a critical part of my business model and I would win that
> > fight in court every time.
> > >
> > > We stopped selling residential service two years ago - they use more,
> pay
> > less, and need the most support - however it's clear that this has
> hampered
> > growth.
> > >
> > > I am planning to implement metered billing on our network. The plan is
> to
> > determine the traffic utilization of 95% of our customers in each
service
> > tier and set that as the baseline. Moving forward light users will pay
> less
> > and heavy users will pay more. It's the only way I can think of to
> survive
> > and be fair.
> > >
> > > Jerry Richardson
> > > airCloud Communications.
> > >
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Jack Unger
> > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:08 AM
> > > To: WISPA General List
> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
> > >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > I appreciate hearing your thoughts and I believe that I understand the
> > ISP concerns that new regulations may force ISPs to pass large or
> unlimited
> > amounts of traffic to the detriment of 1) other ISP customers and 2) the
> > financial well-being of the ISP.
> > >
> > > Again the two main Network Neutrality (NN) issues are 1) Bandwidth and
> 2)
> > Content.
> > >
> > > Bandwidth should already be managed by all ISPs and no one (not the
> > Government and not a competitor) should be able to force an ISP to
> deliver
> > more bandwidth to a customer than the amount that the customer
contracted
> > f

Re: [WISPA] Authentication Methods

[Robert West]

Ah, an unbiased opinion!  An honest man I see.  I'll install the thing
someday.  I'm only 2 years behind in my to-do list.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tim Sylvester
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:59 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Authentication Methods

I have deployed FreeRADIUS for large ISPs terminating PPPoE on Cisco (14,000
subs) and RedBack gear (200K subs). Works great.

Tim

Disclaimer: By day I am a FreeRADIUS consultant.

> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:36 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Authentication Methods
> 
> I've been trying to get around to FreeRADIUS.  Do you use that, Josh?
> I've
> been looking at Radius Manager as well and have the download but have
> yet to
> do a darn thing with any of it.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:58 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Authentication Methods
> 
> Sounds like a job for FreeRADIUS to me.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Nick Huanca  wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I currently am working on a project to develop a sustainable,
> manufacturer
> > agnostic, easy to maintain and provision authentication system for
> our
> ISP.
> > We have a mix of access points from Alvarion, Trango, MikroTik,
> Canopy,
> and
> > others. We're currently running a distributed PPPoE model with
> MikroTik
> > PPPoE concentrators. We're concerned about MikroTik's longevity,
> > reliability
> > and support as we move towards a more centralized PPPoE model where
> all
> our
> > sessions terminate at a CO. We're looking to migrate over 1,000
> customers,
> > currently across 15 or so concentrators, to one single concentrator
> with
> > either load balancing or redundancy. We're also trying to keep our
> > decisions
> > based around a future IPv6 implementation.
> >
> > My question is if anyone has had any experience in deploying large
> scale
> > PPPoE with a centralized methodology. I have investigated the Open
> Source
> > options such as rp-pppoe and others but have found that they don't
> offer
> > any
> > load-balancing or redundancy options, which are important
> considerations
> > when moving to a centralized model. These packages also don't offer
> any
> > type
> > of integrated rate-limiting or burst-limiting based on RADIUS. Does
> anyone
> > have any experience with other types of centralized authentication
> for
> > customers that support IPv6 and include integration of
> > rate-limiting/bursting?
> >
> > I have reached out to a Cisco integrator, ImageStream, Fine Point
> > Technologies (http://www.finepoint.com/servpoet.html), and some
> others to
> > find solutions.
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > --
> > Nick Huanca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ---
> -
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> ---
> -
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> 
> 
> ---
> -
> 
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> ---
> -
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&

Re: [WISPA] Authentication Methods

[Robert West]

Yikes!  Money well spent, I must say!



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Authentication Methods

We have PowerRouter 732s (under 1500 MSRP) doing over 2500 PPPoE
sessions without issues, and PowerRouter 2282s with over 5k currently.
Just a FYI.

---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of "Learn RouterOS"


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Authentication Methods

I think first off, why the concern over Mikrotik longevity? Do you not
think the company will be around, or do you just not see it scaling (for
whatever reason) to the level that you want / need? Personally, I'm not
sure what you're looking for that's not already out there. Build a
mikrotik concentrator with a good spec server (or two), dropin
Freeradius Oas someone else already mentioned) and you should be good
for a long time.  


Sent from Windows mobile device...

-Original Message-
From: Nick Huanca 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:48 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Authentication Methods

Hi all,

I currently am working on a project to develop a sustainable,
manufacturer
agnostic, easy to maintain and provision authentication system for our
ISP.
We have a mix of access points from Alvarion, Trango, MikroTik, Canopy,
and
others. We're currently running a distributed PPPoE model with MikroTik
PPPoE concentrators. We're concerned about MikroTik's longevity,
reliability
and support as we move towards a more centralized PPPoE model where all
our
sessions terminate at a CO. We're looking to migrate over 1,000
customers,
currently across 15 or so concentrators, to one single concentrator with
either load balancing or redundancy. We're also trying to keep our
decisions
based around a future IPv6 implementation.

My question is if anyone has had any experience in deploying large scale
PPPoE with a centralized methodology. I have investigated the Open
Source
options such as rp-pppoe and others but have found that they don't offer
any
load-balancing or redundancy options, which are important considerations
when moving to a centralized model. These packages also don't offer any
type
of integrated rate-limiting or burst-limiting based on RADIUS. Does
anyone
have any experience with other types of centralized authentication for
customers that support IPv6 and include integration of
rate-limiting/bursting?

I have reached out to a Cisco integrator, ImageStream, Fine Point
Technologies (http://www.finepoint.com/servpoet.html), and some others
to
find solutions.


Thanks in advance,

-- 
Nick Huanca




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Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page

[Robert West]

I should start an anti-social networking site where people could be my
enemy.

What do you think?  A money maker???



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Martha Huizenga
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Cc: Motorola Canopy User Group
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page

That would be great. However, I read that it's 1000 fans to get your own 
URL. I am hoping I was wrong! I am only in the teens : (

Martha Huizenga
DC Access, LLC
202-546-5898
*/Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
Join us on Facebook 
or 
follow us on Twitter 
/*



Dylan Bouterse wrote:
> I'm thinking there should be a list on the WISPA page for it's member's
> Facebook fan pages (assuming you're in on the social marketing train)?
> Thoughts?
>
> Apparently if you have more than 100 fans you can get a custom URL from
> Facebook. We are just over 60 fans. Can I get some help from our WISPA
> community?
>
> Dylan
> PowerOne/airPowered
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tavares-FL/airPowered/168580151456?ref=nf
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


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> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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>   




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Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page

[Robert West]

I can host it along side my Amish Personal Ads Dating site.

Another money making idea!



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:27 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page

I'd sign up for that.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> I should start an anti-social networking site where people could be my
> enemy.
>
> What do you think?  A money maker???
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Martha Huizenga
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:22 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Cc: Motorola Canopy User Group
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page
>
> That would be great. However, I read that it's 1000 fans to get your own
> URL. I am hoping I was wrong! I am only in the teens : (
>
> Martha Huizenga
> DC Access, LLC
> 202-546-5898
> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
> Join us on Facebook
> <
>
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Access-LLC/640964
>
86706?ref=ts<http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Acces
s-LLC/640964%0A86706?ref=ts>
> >or
> follow us on Twitter <http://twitter.com/dcaccess>
> /*
>
>
>
> Dylan Bouterse wrote:
> > I'm thinking there should be a list on the WISPA page for it's member's
> > Facebook fan pages (assuming you're in on the social marketing train)?
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Apparently if you have more than 100 fans you can get a custom URL from
> > Facebook. We are just over 60 fans. Can I get some help from our WISPA
> > community?
> >
> > Dylan
> > PowerOne/airPowered
> > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tavares-FL/airPowered/168580151456?ref=nf
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
>
>

> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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>
>


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>
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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

I agree and in a roundabout way I guess that's what I'm saying. As a group,
come up with a solid and agreed upon position and try to come up with a set
of guidelines that would provide both net neutrality and economic sense.

That's what I mean by being pro-active instead of being re-active.  As a
group, 100%.   Or as close as one can get with this bunch!  :)



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:22 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

Robert,

Being pro-active can be good when it's constructive. WISPA's position 
needs to be developed through a discussion process otherwise it's just 
the position of one person and may not be representative of the position 
of a majority of WISPA members however it appears that Julius 
Genachowski must have been reading your mind because today he announced 
a brand new website called Open Internet.gov . You 
could go there as an individual and start contributing your constructive 
suggestions immediately.

jack


Robert West wrote:
> But why wait for the FCC?  Why not be pro-active?  We already know our
> concerns and we could at least list the ways we would like to see this
type
> of thing designed.   To just react to something isn't being the leader.
We
> should be at the front of this thing.  At least that's what I feel I
should
> do myself.  The entire idea had to be started by someone, why not jump in
> and be part of it?
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:56 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
>  
>
> David, 
>
> Regarding WISPA plans to adopt any official position on Network
> Neutrality...that process is always active but it does have a number of
> steps. 
>
> 1. We've got to see what rules the FCC actually proposes. 
>
> 2. We need to get general agreement (probably a majority view since
getting
> complete agreement between all independent-thinking WISPA members is a
darn
> near impossibility) on what WISPA's official position should be. 
>
> 3. We need to either a) wait for the FCC to ask for opinions or (if our
> beliefs are compelling enough) b) go to the FCC and make an Ex Parte
> presentation to selected FCC employees to explain our position and what we
> recommend the FCC do. 
>
> 4. Wait and see what the FCC does after we express our opinion or make our
> presenation and then decide if further action on our part is needed. 
>
> Steps 1 and 2 (above) are already in play. Watching the FCC's proposals
and
> listening to WISPA member opinions and ideas is happening as we
participate
> in this discussion. Additional work will be done by WISPA's FCC Committee
to
> refine WISPA's position and either write it up (Step 3) or prepare an Ex
> Parte presentation. 
>
> Funding to prepare either a written or an in-person FCC presentation comes
> from the dues of WISPA members therefore it would be beneficial if those
> participating in this discussion who are not WISPA members would choose to
> do the right thing and become WISPA members. 
>
> As the Chair of WISPA's FCC Committee, I will be participating in the
> preparation of any FCC Comments that WISPA officially makes. While I
> appreciate all input, I'm obligated to give more weight to the views of
> WISPA members compared to the views of those who are not yet WISPA
members. 
>
> jack
>
>
> David E. Smith wrote: 
>
> Curtis Maurand wrote:
>  
>   
>
> I think they're saying things like Time-Warner can't prioritize CNN 
> (which is owned by Time, Inc.) over MSNBC or Youtube over hulu, etc.
> 
>
>  
> That may be what they mean, but that sure isn't what they're saying (or 
> at least that's not what it sounds like from way up here in the peanut 
> gallery).
>  
> Can anyone comment on whether WISPA plans to adopt any official position 
> on this? I'm not saying "net neutrality is bad," because I adore the 
> principles. I just want to be sure the FCC doesn't pass some 
> overly-broad rulemaking, slanted towards bigger operators, that makes it 
> difficult or impossible for smaller outfits (like mine!) to keep things 
> running smoothly.
>  
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>  
>  
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>  
&g

Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page

[Robert West]

Uh..  I do not recall making any snide comments or any comments
whatsoever against or for social networking. What I actually did was make a
JOKE about ANTI-SOCIAL networking.   

Please explain my non-understanding of social networking and also how I have
bashed.  I see no bashing being performed on this side yet I feel some
symptoms of being the recipient of some of this reported bashing activity.

Hm..  I am sorry that you are so sad.  

Fin.





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Martha Huizenga
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page

It's too bad the two of you don't understand the power of social 
networking and feel the need to bash the rest of us in our marketing 
efforts.

This is why so many people leave these lists. Some of us are trying to 
help each other and the rest are just making snide comments.

So sad.

Martha Huizenga
DC Access, LLC
202-546-5898
*/Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
Join us on Facebook 
<http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Access-LLC/640964
86706?ref=ts>or 
follow us on Twitter <http://twitter.com/dcaccess>
/*



Robert West wrote:
> I can host it along side my Amish Personal Ads Dating site.
>
> Another money making idea!
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:27 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page
>
> I'd sign up for that.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
>   
>> I should start an anti-social networking site where people could be my
>> enemy.
>>
>> What do you think?  A money maker???
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Martha Huizenga
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:22 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Cc: Motorola Canopy User Group
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page
>>
>> That would be great. However, I read that it's 1000 fans to get your own
>> URL. I am hoping I was wrong! I am only in the teens : (
>>
>> Martha Huizenga
>> DC Access, LLC
>> 202-546-5898
>> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
>> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
>> Join us on Facebook
>> <
>>
>> 
>
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Access-LLC/640964
>   
>
86706?ref=ts<http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Acces
> s-LLC/640964%0A86706?ref=ts>
>   
>>> or
>>>   
>> follow us on Twitter <http://twitter.com/dcaccess>
>> /*
>>
>>
>>
>> Dylan Bouterse wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm thinking there should be a list on the WISPA page for it's member's
>>> Facebook fan pages (assuming you're in on the social marketing train)?
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Apparently if you have more than 100 fans you can get a custom URL from
>>> Facebook. We are just over 60 fans. Can I get some help from our WISPA
>>> community?
>>>
>>> Dylan
>>> PowerOne/airPowered
>>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tavares-FL/airPowered/168580151456?ref=nf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>

>   
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>

>   
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>
>>
>> 
>

>   
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/

Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

I'm not looking.  I will assume the site promotes super efficient heating
devices.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Curtis Maurand
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:09 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality


yes.

Registration Service Provided By: ABOVE.COM, INC.
Contact: +613.95897946

Domain Name: SUPERHOTSTUFF.COM

Registrant:
Above.com Domain Privacy
8 East concourse
Beaumaris
VIC
3193
AU
hostmas...@above.com
Tel. +61.395897946
Fax.


Robert West wrote:
> Was a joke.  But some who need porn in the morning..  that's just
weird.
>
>
> But again, who am I to judge?!  
>
> (Is there really a superhotstoffhere.com)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:48 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
> Some of us don't need porn every morning and those that do won't admit nor
> complain about it.  Saves us bandwidth.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Why do you put superhotstuffhere.com as 8?  Some of us count on that
every
>> morning.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:26 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>>
>> Just needed to be worded based on service or type of traffic not
>> destination.
>>
>> All TOS byte 184 traffic priority 1
>>
>> All DNS priority 2
>>
>> All HTTP priority 4
>>
>> etc...
>>
>> WE DO NOT want
>>
>> cnn.com, twcbc.com, abc.com priority 1
>>
>> google.com yahoo.com priority 2
>>
>> whitehouse.com superhotstuffhere.com priority 8
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Curtis Maurand 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I think you're all jumping to conclusions.  There will be
>>> modifications.  You will probably find that you'll be able to limit
>>> outgoing bittorrent and block spam from botnetted machines, block
>>> illegal activity, etc.  How do you determine illegal bittorrent
>>> (uploading of copyrighted content, etc.) from legal  (uploading of GNU
>>> licensed open source)?   There lies the big question.
>>>
>>> I think they're saying things like Time-Warner can't prioritize CNN
>>> (which is owned by Time, Inc.) over MSNBC or Youtube over hulu, etc.  I
>>> still say they should allow you to prioritize VOIP over everything else.
>>> IMHO
>>>
>>> --Curtis
>>>
>>>
>>> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>>   
>>>> I can't agree more.
>>>>
>>>> "Blocking" (0 bits passed) is constitutionally wrong IMO.  Since I can
>>>> 
>> no
>> 
>>> longer distinguish legal traffic from illegal traffic I have to allow it
>>> all.
>>>   
>>>> Shaping/Throttling/Caps is not only 100% within my rights, but as an
>>>> 
>> ISP
>> 
>>> is prudent and a critical part of my business model and I would win that
>>> fight in court every time.
>>>   
>>>> We stopped selling residential service two years ago - they use more,
>>>> 
>> pay
>> 
>>> less, and need the most support - however it's clear that this has
>>>   
>> hampered
>> 
>>> growth.
>>>   
>>>> I am planning to implement metered billing on our network. The plan is
>>>> 
>> to
>> 
>>> determine the traffic utilization of 95% of our customers in each
>>>   

Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

Okay.  Isn't this what most of us already do in our Terms Of Service notice?
So if it's just a matter of notification then the issue would be void on day
one as far as traffic shaping is concerned.  Am I right on my understanding
of this?  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Curtis Maurand
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

I just read the fifth rule in the speech and I quote it below and the 
remarks made by Mr. Genachowski:


"Fifth Principle of Non-Discrimination

The fifth principle is one of non-discrimination -- stating that
broadband providers cannot discriminate against particular Internet
content or applications. 

This means they cannot block or degrade lawful traffic over their 
networks, or pick winners by favoring some content or applications over 
others in the connection to subscribers' homes. Nor can they disfavor an 
Internet service just because it competes with a similar service offered 
by that broadband provider. The Internet must continue to allow users to 
decide what content and applications succeed.

This principle will not prevent broadband providers from reasonably 
managing their networks. During periods of network congestion, for 
example, it may be appropriate for providers to ensure that very heavy 
users do not crowd out everyone else. And this principle will not 
constrain efforts to ensure a safe, secure, and spam-free Internet 
experience, or to enforce the law. It is vital that illegal conduct be 
curtailed on the Internet. As I said in my Senate confirmation hearing, 
open Internet principles apply only to lawful content, services and 
applications -- not to activities like unlawful distribution of 
copyrighted works, which has serious economic consequences. The 
enforcement of copyright and other laws and the obligations of network 
openness can and must co-exist.

I also recognize that there may be benefits to innovation and investment 
of broadband providers offering managed services in limited 
circumstances. These services are different than traditional broadband 
Internet access, and some have argued they should be analyzed under a 
different framework. I believe such services can supplement -- but must 
not supplant -- free and open Internet access, and that we must ensure 
that ample bandwidth exists for all Internet users and innovators. In 
the rulemaking process I will discuss in a moment, we will carefully 
consider how to approach the question of managed services in a way that 
maximizes the innovation and investment necessary for a robust and 
thriving Internet."

The sixth rule just says that if you're going to throttle things like 
peer to peer, you're going to have to notify your users before you do it.

Reads just I thought it would.  It doesn't prevent you from throttling 
bittorrent uploaders, etc.  Everyone should read the speech.  Its not as 
bad as the media makes it out to be.

--Curtis




Mike Hammett wrote:
> Worldwide, the US ISPs don't have that much power.  See Comcast tell DT, 
> PCCW, NTT, etc. to fly a kite and Comcast will be the odd man out.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Tom DeReggi" 
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:04 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
>   
>> For those that have not yet read it, the relevent site to read is
>>
>> http://www.openinternet.gov/read-speech.html
>>
>> We need to realize and seperate two things...
>>
>> 1) that the intent of NetNeutrality expressed at this site, is an
>> idealalistic view, to keep the Internet open and free, which is hard to
>> combat based on the "ideals", and we should recognize that the goal of an
>> open Internet is not specifically what we are fighting.
>> 2) The reality that idealistic views dont translate to how the Internet
>> Industry really works. And the site's proposed methodology to attempt
>> preservation of an open network, infact may be harmful to consumers and
>> delivery of most common Internet services from competitive Access 
>> providers.
>> What we need to fight are mechanisms and ideas that harm access
providers,
>> or that prioritize content provider's needs over that of access
providers.
>>
>> There is an important thing to realize. One of NetNeutrality's biggest
>> advocates is now I think Chief of Staff. (Bruce somebody). NetNeutrality
>> will be directly addressed in the new FCC, we can count on that. More so
>> than in past commissions.
>>
>> Over the next 3 months I believe WISPA will need to get actively engaged 
>> in
>> Netneutrality lobbying. It will need to be a combined effort between
>> legislative and FCC committees.
>> The Legislative committee will need to fight bills being plannedd to be
>> introducted to congress, and FCC commit

Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

I'll pass.  I have enough mind altering substances called children and a
wife.  Not euphoric by any means but one can't have everything.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Curtis Maurand
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality


something about salvia leaves.  some sort of euphoric mind altering 
substance.

--C

Robert West wrote:
> I'm not looking.  I will assume the site promotes super efficient heating
> devices.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Curtis Maurand
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:09 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
>
> yes.
>
> Registration Service Provided By: ABOVE.COM, INC.
> Contact: +613.95897946
>
> Domain Name: SUPERHOTSTUFF.COM
>
> Registrant:
> Above.com Domain Privacy
> 8 East concourse
> Beaumaris
> VIC
> 3193
>     AU
> hostmas...@above.com
> Tel. +61.395897946
> Fax.
>
>
> Robert West wrote:
>   
>> Was a joke.  But some who need porn in the morning..  that's just
>> 
> weird.
>   
>> But again, who am I to judge?!  
>>
>> (Is there really a superhotstoffhere.com)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:48 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>>
>> Some of us don't need porn every morning and those that do won't admit
nor
>> complain about it.  Saves us bandwidth.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Robert West
>> wrote:
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> Why do you put superhotstuffhere.com as 8?  Some of us count on that
>>>   
> every
>   
>>> morning.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:26 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>>>
>>> Just needed to be worded based on service or type of traffic not
>>> destination.
>>>
>>> All TOS byte 184 traffic priority 1
>>>
>>> All DNS priority 2
>>>
>>> All HTTP priority 4
>>>
>>> etc...
>>>
>>> WE DO NOT want
>>>
>>> cnn.com, twcbc.com, abc.com priority 1
>>>
>>> google.com yahoo.com priority 2
>>>
>>> whitehouse.com superhotstuffhere.com priority 8
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>>> improbable, must be the truth."
>>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Curtis Maurand 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>   
>>>> I think you're all jumping to conclusions.  There will be
>>>> modifications.  You will probably find that you'll be able to limit
>>>> outgoing bittorrent and block spam from botnetted machines, block
>>>> illegal activity, etc.  How do you determine illegal bittorrent
>>>> (uploading of copyrighted content, etc.) from legal  (uploading of GNU
>>>> licensed open source)?   There lies the big question.
>>>>
>>>> I think they're saying things like Time-Warner can't prioritize CNN
>>>> (which is owned by Time, Inc.) over MSNBC or Youtube over hulu, etc.  I
>>>> still say they should allow you to prioritize VOIP over everything
else.
>>>> IMHO
>>>>
>>>> --Curtis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>>&g

Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page

[Robert West]

Believe it or not, I used to do stand up in the Cleveland and Columbus areas
back in the 90's and then again about 5 years ago due to age allowing me to
forget how much it sucks.  (I remembered quick enough during my rant on the
Bible Factory Outlet..  Half the room falling off their chairs
laughing and the other half silent.)  So I'm used to some not "getting it"
or, okay, MOST probably don’t get it!  (I admit this freely)  This all
explains my current day job.  I still tend to share my twisted and
convoluted thoughts to those who are unlucky enough to be near.

Thanks for the good feelings though.  It's appreciated.

Just remember to tip your wait staff, they do a hard job keeping you people
drunk and unaware that I suck.




-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:25 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page

Robert,

I enjoy your humor while some may not understand it.

-RickG

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Robert West 
wrote:
> Uh..  I do not recall making any snide comments or any comments
> whatsoever against or for social networking. What I actually did was make
a
> JOKE about ANTI-SOCIAL networking.
>
> Please explain my non-understanding of social networking and also how I
have
> bashed.  I see no bashing being performed on this side yet I feel some
> symptoms of being the recipient of some of this reported bashing activity.
>
> Hm..  I am sorry that you are so sad.
>
> Fin.
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Martha Huizenga
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:46 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page
>
> It's too bad the two of you don't understand the power of social
> networking and feel the need to bash the rest of us in our marketing
> efforts.
>
> This is why so many people leave these lists. Some of us are trying to
> help each other and the rest are just making snide comments.
>
> So sad.
>
> Martha Huizenga
> DC Access, LLC
> 202-546-5898
> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
> Join us on Facebook
>
<http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Access-LLC/640964
> 86706?ref=ts>or
> follow us on Twitter <http://twitter.com/dcaccess>
> /*
>
>
>
> Robert West wrote:
>> I can host it along side my Amish Personal Ads Dating site.
>>
>> Another money making idea!
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:27 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page
>>
>> I'd sign up for that.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Robert West
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I should start an anti-social networking site where people could be my
>>> enemy.
>>>
>>> What do you think?  A money maker???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Martha Huizenga
>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:22 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Cc: Motorola Canopy User Group
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Facebook fan page
>>>
>>> That would be great. However, I read that it's 1000 fans to get your own
>>> URL. I am hoping I was wrong! I am only in the teens : (
>>>
>>> Martha Huizenga
>>> DC Access, LLC
>>> 202-546-5898
>>> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
>>> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
>>> Join us on Facebook
>>> <
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Access-LLC/640964
>>
>>
>
86706?ref=ts<http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Acces
>> s-LLC/640964%0A86706?ref=ts>
>>
>>>> or
>>>>
>>> follow us on Twitter <http://twitt

Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

> On bandwidth, every ISP (in my opinion) should already be managing
>> >
>> > bandwidth and limiting bandwidth so that customers get what they
>> >
>> > contract for and not any more than what they contract for.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On content, no ISP (again, in my opinion) should be able to be the
>> >
>> > "decider" and choose what content they will pass and what content they
>> >
>> > won't pass.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If ISPs practice active bandwidth management then they should not need
>> >
>> > to practice content management. ISPs should not be able to tell me (or
>> >
>> > you) what we can or can't send or who we can or can not send it to or
>> >
>> > receive it from.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I think I stated that very clearly. Do you agree?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Respectfully,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > jack
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > John Vogel wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Free speech itself is not so much the issue, as presented by most who
>> >
>> > would argue for net neutrality, but rather application/traffic type. If
>> >
>> > it were not for the change in the way network traffic has evolved,
>> >
>> > moving from a bursty/intermittent type of traffic to a constant, high
>> >
>> > bit rate streaming, there would probably not be much of an issue, as
>> >
>> > most ISPs don't really care so much what you say or view over their
>> >
>> > networks. Those ISPs who have fallen afoul of the NN advocates have
done
>> >
>> > so primarily because they were attempting to address a particular type
>> >
>> > of traffic pattern, rather than whatever content may have been
>> >
>> > transmitted in that traffic pattern. (e.g. bittorrent, lots of
>> >
>> > connections, constant streaming at high bandwidth utilization)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Although I hesitate to use analogies... If I own a public restaurant, I
>> >
>> > reserve the right to refuse service to anybody who is determined to
>> >
>> > converse with other patrons in that restaurant by shouting everything
>> >
>> > they say, Likewise, if they choose to communicate using smoke signals,
>> >
>> > (cigarette or otherwise) I or the State/City have rules regarding that,
>> >
>> > and will restrict their speech in that manner. What they are
>> >
>> > communicating is immaterial. While they DO have a right to free speech,
>> >
>> > arguing that they should be allowed to communicate that speech via
smoke
>> >
>> > signals, and subsequent complaints about the infringement of their free
>> >
>> > speech right by restricting the way in which they choose to communicate
>> >
>> > is somewhat disingenuous.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > There are really two different issues in play here. Conflating them
>> >
>> > under the banner of free speech does not address both issues
adequately.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jack Unger wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The government is actually protecting your freedom to access any
>> >
>> > Internet content you choose and your freedom to say whatever you want
to
>> >
>> > say.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The arguement that you can just move to another ISP is false because,
as
>> >
>> > most WISPs know, many rural citizens don't have ANY ISP or maybe just
>> >
>> > one wireless ISP to choose from therefore they can't just "move to
>> >
>> > another ISP if the first ISP doesn't like what they have to say and
>> >
>> > shuts them off. Further, even if you have more than one ISP, how are
you
>> >
>> > going to get the news or get your opinions out if BOTH ISPs (or ALL
>> >
>> > ISPs) disagree with your opinion and shut you off.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your arguement is like saying "I enjoy Free Speech" right now but I
>> >
>> > don't want the government to interfere in order to protect my Free
>

Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

So what I think you're saying, we should restrict the user based on a
predetermined usage limit then kick the throttling in for the entire
connection, not per app.  This is okay.  Then the users who hit it once in
awhile will never reach the "bandwidth abuse" level and would sail right on
through as happy customers.  And all of that sounds perfectly doable and as
reasonable and fair as it can get.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Clint Ricker
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:55 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

The key words in the FCC quote is "users", not applications.

They aren't restricting your ability to block or degrade IP address
"162.21.25.200" because that IP address is generating spam or running up
terabytes of traffic a month when you only have a DSL backhaul.

They are trying to restrict your ability to say "my heaviest users all use
bit torrent, so I'm going to block bit torrent".

In other words, shape on users, not on user actionsblock/restrict the
heaviest users, not the heaviest applications.

This doesn't really change anything for WISPs, since it has the same effect
and is really a better approach in any case.  It lets you give the ideal
experience for ALL applications to your ideal customers.  And you can
directly target your heaviest users.  This is a lot better than potentially
losing good customers (ie low bandwidht customers) because they can't get
bit torrent to work when they try to use it twice a month.

-Clint Ricker




On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Okay.  Isn't this what most of us already do in our Terms Of Service
> notice?
> So if it's just a matter of notification then the issue would be void on
> day
> one as far as traffic shaping is concerned.  Am I right on my
understanding
> of this?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Curtis Maurand
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:58 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
> I just read the fifth rule in the speech and I quote it below and the
> remarks made by Mr. Genachowski:
>
>
>"Fifth Principle of Non-Discrimination
>
>The fifth principle is one of non-discrimination -- stating that
>broadband providers cannot discriminate against particular Internet
>content or applications.
>
> This means they cannot block or degrade lawful traffic over their
> networks, or pick winners by favoring some content or applications over
> others in the connection to subscribers' homes. Nor can they disfavor an
> Internet service just because it competes with a similar service offered
> by that broadband provider. The Internet must continue to allow users to
> decide what content and applications succeed.
>
> This principle will not prevent broadband providers from reasonably
> managing their networks. During periods of network congestion, for
> example, it may be appropriate for providers to ensure that very heavy
> users do not crowd out everyone else. And this principle will not
> constrain efforts to ensure a safe, secure, and spam-free Internet
> experience, or to enforce the law. It is vital that illegal conduct be
> curtailed on the Internet. As I said in my Senate confirmation hearing,
> open Internet principles apply only to lawful content, services and
> applications -- not to activities like unlawful distribution of
> copyrighted works, which has serious economic consequences. The
> enforcement of copyright and other laws and the obligations of network
> openness can and must co-exist.
>
> I also recognize that there may be benefits to innovation and investment
> of broadband providers offering managed services in limited
> circumstances. These services are different than traditional broadband
> Internet access, and some have argued they should be analyzed under a
> different framework. I believe such services can supplement -- but must
> not supplant -- free and open Internet access, and that we must ensure
> that ample bandwidth exists for all Internet users and innovators. In
> the rulemaking process I will discuss in a moment, we will carefully
> consider how to approach the question of managed services in a way that
> maximizes the innovation and investment necessary for a robust and
> thriving Internet."
>
> The sixth rule just says that if you're going to throttle things like
> peer to peer, you're going to have to notify your users before you do it.
>
> Reads just I thought it would.  It doesn't prevent you from throttling
> bittorrent uploaders, etc.  Everyone should read 

Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

And adding a priority to certain traffic would still be acceptable since it
would only be in force if that traffic is being used, such as VOIP and video
and is there only to enhance and ensure the quality of that particular
traffic that the customer themselves chose to use.  Yes?



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Clint Ricker
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:15 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

Exactly.  And, it works better all around since you deliver an ideal
experience (including access to ALL internet applications) to your ideal
customers.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> So what I think you're saying, we should restrict the user based on a
> predetermined usage limit then kick the throttling in for the entire
> connection, not per app.  This is okay.  Then the users who hit it once in
> awhile will never reach the "bandwidth abuse" level and would sail right
on
> through as happy customers.  And all of that sounds perfectly doable and
as
> reasonable and fair as it can get.
>
> Bob-
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Clint Ricker
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:55 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
> The key words in the FCC quote is "users", not applications.
>
> They aren't restricting your ability to block or degrade IP address
> "162.21.25.200" because that IP address is generating spam or running up
> terabytes of traffic a month when you only have a DSL backhaul.
>
> They are trying to restrict your ability to say "my heaviest users all use
> bit torrent, so I'm going to block bit torrent".
>
> In other words, shape on users, not on user actionsblock/restrict the
> heaviest users, not the heaviest applications.
>
> This doesn't really change anything for WISPs, since it has the same
effect
> and is really a better approach in any case.  It lets you give the ideal
> experience for ALL applications to your ideal customers.  And you can
> directly target your heaviest users.  This is a lot better than
potentially
> losing good customers (ie low bandwidht customers) because they can't get
> bit torrent to work when they try to use it twice a month.
>
> -Clint Ricker
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Okay.  Isn't this what most of us already do in our Terms Of Service
> > notice?
> > So if it's just a matter of notification then the issue would be void on
> > day
> > one as far as traffic shaping is concerned.  Am I right on my
> understanding
> > of this?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Curtis Maurand
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:58 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
> >
> > I just read the fifth rule in the speech and I quote it below and the
> > remarks made by Mr. Genachowski:
> >
> >
> >"Fifth Principle of Non-Discrimination
> >
> >The fifth principle is one of non-discrimination -- stating that
> >broadband providers cannot discriminate against particular Internet
> >content or applications.
> >
> > This means they cannot block or degrade lawful traffic over their
> > networks, or pick winners by favoring some content or applications over
> > others in the connection to subscribers' homes. Nor can they disfavor an
> > Internet service just because it competes with a similar service offered
> > by that broadband provider. The Internet must continue to allow users to
> > decide what content and applications succeed.
> >
> > This principle will not prevent broadband providers from reasonably
> > managing their networks. During periods of network congestion, for
> > example, it may be appropriate for providers to ensure that very heavy
> > users do not crowd out everyone else. And this principle will not
> > constrain efforts to ensure a safe, secure, and spam-free Internet
> > experience, or to enforce the law. It is vital that illegal conduct be
> > curtailed on the Internet. As I said in my Senate confirmation hearing,
> > open Internet principles apply only to lawful content, services and
> > applications -- not to activities like unlawful distribution of
> > copyrighted works, which has serious economic consequences. The
> > enforcement of copyright and other laws and the obligations

Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

That's Time Warner fiber with 15 public IPs.  I totally acknowledge how
lucky we are to have such a rate here.  We are actually to have some cheaper
fiber coming into the area which I'll try to snag as a secondary access or
maybe even primary and dump the snail pace DSL.  I will not gloat, I feel
for anyone with expensive broadband.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

> Yup.  We pay almost 800 bucks for 20/20 meg.  To not do any shaping we
would

Thats cheap compared to what we pay!  You are paying about $40 a meg.
Is that tier1 bandwidth?  We are paying about $100 meg for tier1.

Matt

> have to charge way more than anyone will pay.  Take the 800 bucks split by
> 20 then add overhead costs and it's too much to bear.  Bandwidth that will
> handle 500+ customers with shaping would then, if totally net neutral,
only
> go to 20 customers or less.  To be true net neutral is just to pass all
the
> traffic through with no touching it.  Reasonable network management, as
Josh
> says, is pretty broad in definition.




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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

You doing Time Warner as a provider as well?  

We are in an old Adelphia area and they had to install an entire new network
which is probably why the cost is lower.  That and we're on the edge of
Appalachia, they probably get some sort of incentive to provide cheaper in
this area.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:22 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

$1500 for 20 megs here.  Nearly double your cost.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Matt  wrote:

> > Yup.  We pay almost 800 bucks for 20/20 meg.  To not do any shaping we
> would
>
> Thats cheap compared to what we pay!  You are paying about $40 a meg.
> Is that tier1 bandwidth?  We are paying about $100 meg for tier1.
>
> Matt
>
> > have to charge way more than anyone will pay.  Take the 800 bucks split
> by
> > 20 then add overhead costs and it's too much to bear.  Bandwidth that
> will
> > handle 500+ customers with shaping would then, if totally net neutral,
> only
> > go to 20 customers or less.  To be true net neutral is just to pass all
> the
> > traffic through with no touching it.  Reasonable network management, as
> Josh
> > says, is pretty broad in definition.
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

Okay.  Who are these IT experts?  I'll offer them a deal.  They provide my
bandwidth and I'll be generous and pay them a nice percentage over their
price for that virtually nothing cost access.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:27 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

> It's back
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,552503,00.html?test=latestnews

I am just waiting for them to say bitcaps are a no no.  When you think
about it with a bit cap you cannot really use the Internet to
completely replace the catv or dish service.  Some consumers I am sure
are going to say that's not fair and some clueless law makers will
likely believe them.

I have already heard some 'expert' IT people on blogs brag that
bandwidth costs ISP's virtually nothing and the only reason for
bitcaps is to prevent competing video services from taking market
share.

Matt




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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

Ah!  Now that's cool!  They charge me $15.00 for more IP's but will go to 10
bucks if I buy a block of 50.  I don't because for one, I'm cheap and
another is because I'm cheap.  As in, we don't charge that much.  If someone
wants one we'll just pass the cost on to them.  I have a hotel I take care
of way out in St. Marys, near Wapakoneta, that we have just regular copper
going to and the salesman threw a bunch of public IPs in to try to seal the
deal, I suppose only I kept telling him I only need 2, one for the router
and one for the camera system.  So they have 15 public ip's and no, Time
Warner says I can't use them on any other modem or router.  Whatever.
Giving them out like that, in my case, is no wonder why the IP pools is
almost dried up.

Ask around, maybe they have the cheaper rate there as well and the salesman
is hosing you and making himself feel better with the unlimited IP's.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

Robert - I too am using TWC fiber.  They let me get as many public IPs as I
want, though.  Have you tried to called them up and filled out their public
IP form for more?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> That's Time Warner fiber with 15 public IPs.  I totally acknowledge how
> lucky we are to have such a rate here.  We are actually to have some
> cheaper
> fiber coming into the area which I'll try to snag as a secondary access or
> maybe even primary and dump the snail pace DSL.  I will not gloat, I feel
> for anyone with expensive broadband.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:20 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
> > Yup.  We pay almost 800 bucks for 20/20 meg.  To not do any shaping we
> would
>
> Thats cheap compared to what we pay!  You are paying about $40 a meg.
> Is that tier1 bandwidth?  We are paying about $100 meg for tier1.
>
> Matt
>
> > have to charge way more than anyone will pay.  Take the 800 bucks split
> by
> > 20 then add overhead costs and it's too much to bear.  Bandwidth that
> will
> > handle 500+ customers with shaping would then, if totally net neutral,
> only
> > go to 20 customers or less.  To be true net neutral is just to pass all
> the
> > traffic through with no touching it.  Reasonable network management, as
> Josh
> > says, is pretty broad in definition.
>
>
>
>

> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
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>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

No!  We don't hit it at all wirelessly, I had Time Warner do a normal copper
install there and tied it into the front desk and some wireless repeaters.
It's the County Hearth, used to be the Amerihost.  We did one of his
properties here in town and he liked it and had us do that one as well.  A
pretty good drive away though!  We monitor from here just through the
internet.  That one was my first pain in the ass due to their, then,
DirectPC system for the reservations.  Was both uplink and downlink and it
kept knocking out our frequency.  Oh, what I would have given for a spectrum
analyzer back then!





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:52 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

You can hit St. Mary's?  How can you hit the Best Value Inn there?  It's
across the street from the Ford dealership.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Ah!  Now that's cool!  They charge me $15.00 for more IP's but will go to
> 10
> bucks if I buy a block of 50.  I don't because for one, I'm cheap and
> another is because I'm cheap.  As in, we don't charge that much.  If
> someone
> wants one we'll just pass the cost on to them.  I have a hotel I take care
> of way out in St. Marys, near Wapakoneta, that we have just regular copper
> going to and the salesman threw a bunch of public IPs in to try to seal
the
> deal, I suppose only I kept telling him I only need 2, one for the router
> and one for the camera system.  So they have 15 public ip's and no, Time
> Warner says I can't use them on any other modem or router.  Whatever.
> Giving them out like that, in my case, is no wonder why the IP pools is
> almost dried up.
>
> Ask around, maybe they have the cheaper rate there as well and the
salesman
> is hosing you and making himself feel better with the unlimited IP's.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:39 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
> Robert - I too am using TWC fiber.  They let me get as many public IPs as
I
> want, though.  Have you tried to called them up and filled out their
public
> IP form for more?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > That's Time Warner fiber with 15 public IPs.  I totally acknowledge how
> > lucky we are to have such a rate here.  We are actually to have some
> > cheaper
> > fiber coming into the area which I'll try to snag as a secondary access
> or
> > maybe even primary and dump the snail pace DSL.  I will not gloat, I
feel
> > for anyone with expensive broadband.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Matt
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:20 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
> >
> > > Yup.  We pay almost 800 bucks for 20/20 meg.  To not do any shaping we
> > would
> >
> > Thats cheap compared to what we pay!  You are paying about $40 a meg.
> > Is that tier1 bandwidth?  We are paying about $100 meg for tier1.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > > have to charge way more than anyone will pay.  Take the 800 bucks
split
> > by
> > > 20 then add overhead costs and it's too much to bear.  Bandwidth that
> > will
> > > handle 500+ customers with shaping would then, if totally net neutral,
> > only
> > > go to 20 customers or less.  To be true net neutral is just to pass
all
> > the
> > > traffic through with no touching it.  Reasonable network management,
as
> > Josh
> > > says, is pretty broad in definition.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

It's the same here.  Starting at 20 meg but going up to 50 is just a little
more.  No need for that right now on my end but it only takes a phone call
and it's on.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

I found out that going from 10Mb to 50Mb was rather inexpensive.  We
went from 1700  to $2080 including local loop.  My other connection is
100Mb at $24/Mb, burstable to 300Mb at $15/Mb over 100 including local
loop.  I was about 2 months late getting in on their promo of $8/Mb.

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

$40 a meg is ridiculously low. 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:39 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

 

$1600 per 10M here

I'd kill for either of those deals!

Josh Luthman wrote: 

$1500 for 20 megs here.  Nearly double your cost.
 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
 
"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
 
 
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Matt 
  wrote:
 
  

Yup.  We pay almost 800 bucks for 20/20 meg.  To not do
any shaping we
  

would
 
Thats cheap compared to what we pay!  You are paying about $40 a
meg.
Is that tier1 bandwidth?  We are paying about $100 meg for
tier1.
 
Matt
 


have to charge way more than anyone will pay.  Take the
800 bucks split
  

by


20 then add overhead costs and it's too much to bear.
Bandwidth that
  

will


handle 500+ customers with shaping would then, if
totally net neutral,
  

only


go to 20 customers or less.  To be true net neutral is
just to pass all
  

the


traffic through with no touching it.  Reasonable network
management, as
  

Josh


says, is pretty broad in definition.
  

 
 



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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

Can you send me some of that in a FedEx mailer?  I'll pay the shipping!



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

As Blake said before, Location, location, location.  I've heard of prices 
below $1/meg on full GigE multi location deals.  I can get $4.50/meg in 
Chicago on a 100 meg pipe on a month-month contract.  $4 if I go GigE+


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Andy Trimmell" 
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 3:07 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

> $40 a meg is ridiculously low.
>
>
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Blair Davis
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:39 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality
>
>
>
> $1600 per 10M here
>
> I'd kill for either of those deals!
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> $1500 for 20 megs here.  Nearly double your cost.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Matt 
>   wrote:
>
>
>
> Yup.  We pay almost 800 bucks for 20/20 meg.  To not do
> any shaping we
>
>
> would
>
> Thats cheap compared to what we pay!  You are paying about $40 a
> meg.
> Is that tier1 bandwidth?  We are paying about $100 meg for
> tier1.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> have to charge way more than anyone will pay.  Take the
> 800 bucks split
>
>
> by
>
>
> 20 then add overhead costs and it's too much to bear.
> Bandwidth that
>
>
> will
>
>
> handle 500+ customers with shaping would then, if
> totally net neutral,
>
>
> only
>
>
> go to 20 customers or less.  To be true net neutral is
> just to pass all
>
>
> the
>
>
> traffic through with no touching it.  Reasonable network
> management, as
>
>
> Josh
>
>
> says, is pretty broad in definition.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
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>
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>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] customer bandwidth ratio

[Robert West]

Hey, it works!  Thanks, Marion.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] customer bandwidth ratio

OK, we have the graphs opened up so you guys can see them.

http://64.146.146.1:81/

That's about 300 wireless and 70 ftth plus web and email servers.

laters,
marlon





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Re: [WISPA] customer bandwidth ratio

[Robert West]

Yeah, but he charges by the mb.  Funny how they play differently when the
meter is running.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] customer bandwidth ratio

Wow they don't use very much do they...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
wrote:

> OK, we have the graphs opened up so you guys can see them.
>
> http://64.146.146.1:81/
>
> That's about 300 wireless and 70 ftth plus web and email servers.
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
>
>
>
>


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[WISPA] Organite defense

[Robert West]

Anyone else tired of these do-gooders and their organite gifting of your
towers?

Here I am, minding my own business and they come and place this darned
organite near my tower, messing up all the funny shaped clouds I've been
working so hard to create for the government and their secret weather
control project.

I'm looking for something that can counter act this most powerful substance.
Any ideas? My handlers at the NSA won't help, you all know how THAT goes!
Always their needs, never mine.  National security this, weather control
that, blah, blah, blah  Whatever.

In case you aren't in the loop and haven't received your secret and
confidential memo, look it up on You Tube.  It will explain the danger.

I feel like I need to sprinkle maybe some ground up goat spleen or something
around the tower for protection from the organite energy waves...
It works to slow my electric meter, maybe it will defend against this as
well.  Too bad Granny from the Beverly Hillbillies isn't with us any more,
she would certainly know the fix for this.

Suggestions are welcome.



The serious side of this is that I see it's been going around and I just saw
it.  More crazies messing about the towers.  I had a long
conversation with a customer today about all of this, she was "concerned"
about these weather experiments and wanted to know if we were involved.  How
do you defend against stupidity?









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Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

[Robert West]

One thing you can bank on, it WILL take hold. 

The need for more Bandwidth won't be stopped anytime soon, I believe.
Eventually most if not all communications will run over the same network,
which if you think about it, all the communications out there seem to touch
the internet at least in part.





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Clint Ricker
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:21 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality

For the mainstream ISPs (the big RBOCs and MSOs), their bandwidth costs are
very, very low and are a small fraction of their overall costs.  However,
that statement does ignore the costs of perpetually upgrading their network
to handle larger volumes of bandwidth.  From a cost perspective, that is the
main motivation for the big players to shape traffic.  However, even that is
small compared to the potential loss of revenue if "over the top" video
takes hold.

-Clint



On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Matt  wrote:

> > It's back
> >
> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,552503,00.html?test=latestnews
>
> I am just waiting for them to say bitcaps are a no no.  When you think
> about it with a bit cap you cannot really use the Internet to
> completely replace the catv or dish service.  Some consumers I am sure
> are going to say that's not fair and some clueless law makers will
> likely believe them.
>
> I have already heard some 'expert' IT people on blogs brag that
> bandwidth costs ISP's virtually nothing and the only reason for
> bitcaps is to prevent competing video services from taking market
> share.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>


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