Re: [WSG] dl question
On 4/08/08 1:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I was under the impression a dl could only contain one dt and one or many dd's. But I have just come across a piece of code that uses multiple dt's in the one dl Upon further investigation, it seems this is legitimate practicebut does it make sense?!?! Semantically, isn't the whole point of a dl to use definition data tags (dd's) to describe a definition title (dt)!? Does it make sense to have multiple definition titles in the same dl?! Or does it make more sense to have a seperate dl for each dt?? The point you probably haven't considered is that it's a definition *list* - a list of things and their definitions. So, one dl can have as many dts (and their attendant dds) as you like. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ # This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal # This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information in this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies. The College does not guarantee that this e-mail is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the College. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED [WSG] XSLT: looping through ancestors looking for a specific node
On 28/07/08 2:07 PM, Matt Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, Grant, this is off topic for this list. Is it? I thought XSLT was a web standard - it certainly has a home on the W3C site ( http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt). Are we just a CSS group now? -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ # This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal # This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information in this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies. The College does not guarantee that this e-mail is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the College. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Who's A Front End Developer?
On 5/7/07 9:37 AM, Lucien Stals [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I missed something in the original question. The front end part. Somebody else categorised some of the technologies as back end and that got me wondering. When I said I was a web developer, I meant back end development. So what is front end development? DHTML? Anything not related to visual design but *not* talking to a back end system? (as opposed to front end design) Developing for the web is such a mixed bag, I just can't see an easy way to categorise things into dev/design or front end / back end. I like Bruce's suggestion for a break down, but he too acknowledges the grey area around development. And I'd say that once you touch the db, you are definitely back end, not front end. In the end I guess I question the validity of defining developers in terms of front end and back end. Can we just stick to designers and developers? Lucien. I work in a school as part of a team of 3 IT people, so I need to be able to do it all - from configuring the server to developing the databases to designing the interfaces to building the back-end to crafting the HTML/CSS to coding the JavaScript where necessary. So, roles like that do indeed exist, especially in small businesses or where this kind of work is not core business. Am I an expert practitioner of all these disciplines and technologies? Of course not, but I get the job done, and know how to find out what I need to know. Your biggest asset in this game is your problem-solving ability, regardless of how you define your role. For the record, I usually describe myself as a 'web developer', but my school defines my role as 'IT Support'. (I'm also responsible for my share of IT support and staff training too, so it doesn't even end there!) Kevin -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ # This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal # This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information in this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies. The College does not guarantee that this e-mail is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the College. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript gurus - exercise in vanity
On 19/6/07 9:27 PM, Rob Kirton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lars Your problem is going to be to get what are deemed good academic sources. As you will already know academic publications and conference papers will carry greater weight than books, especially those not peer reviewed and published as an academic work. It's who your tutor / prof is going to rate as a guru; sad as that may seem. The names mentioned are good in their field and have written books, however you may have been going more down the correct path with your original list. Find good conference papers if you can No one¹s mentioned John Resig, developer of JQuery? -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ # This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal # This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information in this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies. The College does not guarantee that this e-mail is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the College. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Acronym tag usage
On 11/5/07 1:08 AM, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, technically this is not an acroynm or even a tag. :) An acronym is defined as a WORD formed from the initial letters of a multi-word name. The important point here is that an acronym must be a WORD - this means that the joined initial letters must be able to be pronounced. http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/abbreviations/ Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) is actually an initialism - An abbreviation pronounced as the names of the individual letters formed only from the initial letter of constituent words. Initialisms are subsets of abbreviations. So theoretically this should be marked up using the abbr element: abbr title= Metropolitan Statistical AreaM.S.A./abbr The problem is that the abbr is poorly supported by IE5 and IE6. This means you may have to (1) revert to using the acronym element, or (2) place a span inside your abbr element and style this instead or (3) use JavaScript: http://annevankesteren.nl/2003/08/improved-styling-abbr-in-ie The full stops between the letters in the initialism are used by some authors in order to allow screen readers to spell out the letters properly rather than coming out as a single unintelligible word - msah. Oh, and I'd vote for just the first instance on each page - as others have suggested. Thanks Russ Russ is indeed absolutely correct. These terms are confused all the time, and while colloquial use might have become blurred in recent years, their technical definitions have not. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ # This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal # This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information in this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies. The College does not guarantee that this e-mail is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the College. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Acronym tag usage
On 11/5/07 10:23 AM, Dan Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/10/07, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russ is indeed absolutely correct. These terms are confused all the time, and while colloquial use might have become blurred in recent years, their technical definitions have not. I'm genuinely interested in seeing some references on the proper technical definitions of the terms; apparently even linguists don't agree, and fifty/sixty years of usage (at least) seems a rather loose interpretation of recent years. I was unable to dig up any positive position one way or t'other, just varying opinion. I promise, I won't argue any more on the matter, since this is getting awfully pedantic, but I am genuinely curious: if anyone has some concrete sources on the subject, please let me know; off list would be fine. Dan Dorman Dan - I sent you an email offlist. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ # This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal # This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information in this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies. The College does not guarantee that this e-mail is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the College. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
On 19/4/07 8:29 AM, John Foliot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] One way around this would be to announce prior to the image array to Click on any image to view a larger version (or similar). This is the solution that I've (eventually) arrived at for most image galleries - just a simple line of text above the gallery itself explaining what you need to do. The images themselves or their captions are then left alone to function as intended. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ # This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal # This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information in this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies. The College does not guarantee that this e-mail is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the College. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Global and page-specific style sheets
On 13/3/07 3:01 PM, Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All I¹ve got a site that has a fairly MASSIVE style sheet. It¹s quite long as the design spec dictates a number of different pages be layed-out differently. Accordingly, its becoming quite tedious to find certain style blocks that need to be altered/tweaked as development continues. So, I¹m beginning to think that the better way to accomplish this is to attach a ³global² sheet in the head that would take care of all ³generic² issues and page requirements. Then, in those pages that need ³special handling² I would attached separate sheets that would address page-specific requirements. BTW: This site is a dynamic one (php) so these special-case pages are ³included² depending on query-string variables/conditions. What do the good folks say here about this particular topic? Is this a normal (and preferred) workflow when one has to deal with long and unwieldy style sheets? Are there any ³best practice² guidelines for such an issue? Cole I usually do that as a matter of course one global style sheet that I usually call default.css¹, which sets up all the default styles (no kidding?), and then a page- or section-specific style sheet to deal with the, well, specifics (man, I think I see a pattern here...). I find that it makes managing larger sites much easier. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ # This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal # This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information in this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies. The College does not guarantee that this e-mail is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the College. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
On 3/3/06 10:24 AM, Rob Mientjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 02/03/06, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it should be *who* will grin gleefully for a start. My apologies for that typo, but it shouldn't detract from the matter at hand. -Rob. Partly my fault there Rob - I didn't realise until after I'd posted that your comment wasn't part of the quoted material you were referring to. I wouldn't have commented had I realised. I decided not to post a correction/clarification as it was already off-topic enough (even more off-topic now I guess). Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Breadcrumb as Section Heading H1
On 23/2/06 10:19 PM, Ian Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Futter wrote: Anyway, for the benefit of others interested in this thread/topic, the upshot from the above link seems to be that the pipe character (|) is the best compromise currently available as a screen reader-friendly element separator. I profoundly disagree with that. The vertical bar is the worst thing you can use in a breadcrumb trail, regardless of how it reads in a screen reader. This is conventionally used on the web as a separator for sibling links, and it really doesn't work as a breadcrumb separator for sighted users. For the record, I was merely summarising the article that Patrick's earlier link pointed to, not endorsing its conclusions. I too tend to agree that the pipe is a poor choice for sighted users as it already has semiotic significance on the web. I don't think a list is appropriate markup for breadcrumbs and prefer the conventional You are in: home products foo We certainly agree here! Screen reader users in our user testing on sites with this construct had no problems with it reading home greater than products greater than foo, and reported that it was a very useful aid. Now I find this very interesting, mainly because the article seemed not to be based on any user testing, but rather a developer running various alternatives through JAWS and making assumptions about the usability of the results. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - I didn't bookmark the link so I can't go back to confirm.) What you're saying is based on direct observation of and feedback from the target audience, which is of course far more valuable. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Breadcrumb as Section Heading H1
On 22/2/06 10:38 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Futter wrote: My only concern about using a string of text is defining a semantically-appropriate item delimiter that works well for assistive technologies. This seems apropos: http://www.standards-schmandards.com/?2004/11/06/6-the-sound-of-the-accessibl e-title-tag-separator Thanks for the link Patrick - quite interesting. I must admit that I'm guilty of using raquo;, so I may need to rethink that. One thing I found interesting in the comments is the idea of using a colon as a delimiter, with one person commenting that it's semantically appropriate as it's used this way in English grammar. This is not actually correct; colons are used to *introduce* a list (there's that word again) of elements, but semicolons (;) are used to separate the constituent elements, with the last element technically requiring a full-stop (period). I must say though that I feel drawing on the already-muddled semantics of the English language as a model for web semantics is a tenuous affair. Anyway, for the benefit of others interested in this thread/topic, the upshot from the above link seems to be that the pipe character (|) is the best compromise currently available as a screen reader-friendly element separator. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Breadcrumb as Section Heading H1
On 21/2/06 7:00 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Futter wrote: Yes, I've argued strongly in the past that a list is not completely semantically-appropriate for breadcrumbs markup. Unlike breadcrumbs, a flat list does not represent a hierarchy, unless you nest them ... Of course I have to qualify this by saying that I treat breadcrumbs not as a dynamic path mirroring your journey through my website, but a clear and fixed path from site root to the page you're currently on. But one could also look at a homeward path as an ordered set of steps from the homepage to the current page, where the hierarchy is implied by the order in which the list items appear. While I can concede that an ordered list offers more chance of an implied hierarchy than an unordered one, I'm not keen on the amount of code required to produce the result, nor the concept of a series of nested lists, each with one element. Based on what you're saying Patrick, my preference for a simple string of text (a paragraph, for example), set out as an ordered set of steps from the homepage to the current page would have a hierarchy implied by the order in which the list items appear. My only concern about using a string of text is defining a semantically-appropriate item delimiter that works well for assistive technologies. I can but defer to earlier threads referring to Occam's Razor. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Breadcrumb as Section Heading H1
On 21/2/06 12:31 PM, Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Hunter: Is it appropriate to use the breadcrumb as the H1 element? Breadcrumbs do not describe the *document* structure - they hint at the *site* structure (provided you only provide a hierarchal navigation system) or site history (depending on what type of breadcrumb you employ). I'm thinking out aloud here: not sure why, but using a list for breadcrumbs doesn't quite sit right with me, despite it being a type of navigation device. I think it is due to list structures replacing the dir and menu elements - and the notion that the site hierarchy represented as links is distinctly different from a navigation menu. Anyone else have thoughts on this? Yes, I've argued strongly in the past that a list is not completely semantically-appropriate for breadcrumbs markup. Unlike breadcrumbs, a flat list does not represent a hierarchy, unless you nest them (and of course then it's no longer a flat list). So, breadcrumbs would need to be a series of nested lists, each with only one element, in order to satisfy me semantically. And of course, that is just absurd. Breadcrumbs are more about integrating a vertical site or navigation path, rather than a horizontal (in the conceptual sense) collection of same-level data. Of course I have to qualify this by saying that I treat breadcrumbs not as a dynamic path mirroring your journey through my website, but a clear and fixed path from site root to the page you're currently on. If you want to traverse back and forth along your own personal path, you can use the ... wait for it ... Back and Forwards buttons. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict
On 15/2/06 6:57 PM, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bert Doorn wrote: Serdar Kýlýç wrote: How does one open a new window with a 4.01 Strict DOCTYPE and have it be valid? For my weblog I ran the w3 validator and it complained that there is no attribute called target The users! Please, won't somebody think of the *users*! Many users hate popup windows. There are no valid use-cases or reasons for opening a popup window, don't do it. If you think you have one, I'd like to hear it, but know this: I've heard many excuses over the years (some more often than others) but every single one of them has been flawed in some way. Yes, in fact I do have one. For a couple of sites I do for musicians, I open a Flash-based music player in a new window - a small pop-up. Why? Because if you embed the music player in the page and begin to play a song, and then navigate to a different page or website, you lose the entire show. My choice was to put it in a frame - which I did do for a while - or open a new window. I decided that the small pop-up was the lesser of two evils, as the other choice required changing the structural approach of the entire website. An additional benefit of the pop-up not afforded by frames is that the music player is still available even when the user chooses to leave the site. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Justify this
On 15/12/05 4:27 PM, Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kevin, That's just another limitation of the parameter. Justified text actually comes in several flavours - left, right and both. Actually, that's quite wrong. There is no such thing as left- or right-justified text, only left- or right-aligned text. Justified text is exactly as I described in my last post: text that spans a full block element (print or screen) and is aligned to both left and right margins. I am of course talking about the technical publishing definition of the term, not the CSS version. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Resolutions
On 16/12/05 7:07 AM, Brian Cummiskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Wilson wrote: I was surprised to see (in the data Brian posted) so few users at a 1280 x 960 setting. We have a large percentage who use this (I suppose because it is a 3:4 resolution). Isn't 1280x960 mostly on laptops? i don't even have that option on my machine (basic intel built in graphics card) It's a standard 4:3 screen resolution, so any graphics card should support it by default. Sounds like a deficiency in your Intel graphics. I use this resolution myself, as I don't like the slight aspect ratio distortions I get using 1280x1024. (Skulks away realising none of this is on-topic ...) -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Justify this
On 15/12/05 2:49 PM, Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lachlan, Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified text for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid. Thanks anyway. Justified text runs full-width and aligns to both left and right margins, and is hence incompatible with the concept of being centred. This is also why it's less legible - the rivers of white space alluded to already are caused by varying and inconsistent word spacing, which makes the eye jump from word to word instead of tracking smoothly. I'd also have to dispute that it looks better, but that's just subjective on my part. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official
On 30/11/05 9:39 PM, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Mac version of HTMLTidy doesn't work under 1.5, which actually prevents me from upgrading on my work machine, as I use this all the time as a handy shortcut for picking up validation errors (and puts this thread vaguely on-topic too). The PC version works, so I'll be upgrading my PC for sure. Version which I got from http://users.skynet.be/mgueury/mozilla/download.html worked on 1.5RC just fine. Regards, Rimantas Ah, thanks Rimantas - last time I checked (a couple of weeks ago), the 0.7.6 version for Mac wasn't there, only the older 0.6.2 version (which definitely doesn't work with FF1.5). -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official
Title: Re: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official On 30/11/05 12:07 PM, Jay Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The one extension set that no longer works and I haven't found a solution is the libraries for Spellbound. I am not sure where to find the libraries. They are available at for Thunderbird. I really do use it alot for blogging and forum posting. -best. Jay Jay Gilmore Developer/Consultant Affordable Websites and Marketing Solutions for Real Small Business. SmashingRed Web Marketing http://www.smashingred.com P) 902.529.0651 E) [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Mac version of HTMLTidy doesnt work under 1.5, which actually prevents me from upgrading on my work machine, as I use this all the time as a handy shortcut for picking up validation errors (and puts this thread vaguely on-topic too). The PC version works, so Ill be upgrading my PC for sure. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/
Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders
On 15/11/05 3:20 PM, Andy Kirkwood, Motive [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Geoff, (To pick up on Patrick's point.) Have you come across a scenario on a website where it seems appropriate to use an input element to indicate that an option exists but cannot be edited by the user? Perhaps it's preferable to show such content as text rather than as an input? (Seems like an instance of yes, we have no bananas: yes this is an input, but no you can't.) Best regards, I actually used read only input fields recently for our online subject selections. Compulsory subjects were pulled out of a database and displayed as read only input fields, while other fields were normal select elements. Why not just display the compulsory subjects as plain text? Because then there is a visual and cognitive dissonance between the two information sets - they can seem unrelated, especially when you consider that high school students rarely read a web form's accompanying text, no matter how important. I think in this case the fact that the information was displayed with as part of the form avoided that problem, while using the readonly attribute and styling the input text a medium grey took care of the rest. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] specifying width of pre
On 25/10/05 1:59 PM, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Other than a scroll bar (overflow) there is no solution? The reason I need to use pre is that the content comes from a database that doesn't use HTML br's, but normal linebreaks. So to format the text correctly I need to put it in pre tags, but of course I want it to still fit into the rest of the content. Can you not use PHP to replace the line breaks with br / tags? I use something like this: ?php $br = chr(10); //single line feed character (LF) $description = str_replace(chr(10), br /\n); // etc ? You just need to verify which character your db is using for line breaks (MySQL?). Sorry to the list for straying off-topic, and apologies to Andreas (like the new site mate!) if I'm barking up the wrong tree. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] javascripts and standards
On 17/10/05 8:01 AM, Andrew Krespanis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/17/05, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the best books on JavaScript is: JavaScript: The Definitive Guide, by David Flanagan (O'Reilly Associates, Inc.) Couldn't agree more. A fantastic reference manual that will remain on my desk for years to come. Here's the complete 4th edition online: http://157.26.64.29/OReilly_books/books/webprog/jscript/index.htm fou nd via: http://www.maththinking.com/boat/booksIndex.html I *believe* it's legal... fingers crossed! -Andrew. �� ��.�Ȩ� b�� i��y�-jwZ�� ������I 瀆�i��y�-jwZ�� ������f���.�ץ�w����+�xb���p)��b�-� ax b����)��� Well, having just read this: http://157.26.64.29/OReilly_books/books/webprog/jscript/copyrght.htm ... I suspect that it's not (legal, that is). -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon
I would posit that this association of poor markup and table-based design has more to do with a certain approach to web development than merely a raised risk of error in using table-based design. What I mean by that is that most designers/developers who are entrenched in the table-based approach are old skool, knowing nothing of standards-based approaches, or dismissing them as unnecessary. This mindset also tends to treat HTML with disdain, and the vast majority of designers/developers under this umbrella fall into 1 of 3 categories: 1. Hacks who have been asked to produce websites for their company/department in the absence of a qualified professional; 2. Old skool warriors whose hard-earned table-based hacks are just too entrenched to let go of; 3. Programmers, who almost unanimously seem to treat the inevitable HTML output of their web apps with contempt, or at best, as an afterthought. The practical upshot of this is that they don't care, or know enough to care, that their markup is invalid, and will always argue that it works. I think the key here - and I know this was the case for me - is getting them to understand the semantic value of their markup, more so than the simple binary opposition of tables vs css. Being inspired to strip away all the crap is the natural and inevitable result of the semantics light bulb coming on in someone's head. Then they realise that it's not an arbitrary debate about style or best practise, but about efficient and effective information architecture and delivery. Hope all that made sense! Kevin On 7/9/05 10:24 AM, John Allsopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the location of the overwhelming percentage of these malformations is in and around tables. So the use of tables appears to be associated strongly with invalid documents (and not only through poorly formed documents, but also through the use of invalid attributes associated with td and tr elements). In short, using tables is a very good way of raising the risk of invalid documents. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Safari 1.3 vs Safari 2 differences
On 19/8/05 8:22 AM, chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quoteSafari 1.3 and 2.0 are supposed to be identical/quote I was recently working on a site that errors out completely in Safari/Tiger but works great in Safari/Panther. The error in Tiger is too many http requests when downloading images. However, viewing the activity bar for the same page, the error is shown for random images .. There's no (observable-to-me) consistency. Has anyone else witnessed a similar problem? I haven't located any resources yet. -chris Are you sure that the Panther version of Safari you're using is 1.3? Safari v1.3 *requires* 10.3.9, and in fact was part of that OS update. The intention of the 1.3 update was to bring its rendering engine into line with v2, effectively making them the same. You *should* be seeing the same results in either version, OS-specific features aside (font rendering etc). Having said all that, I'm not sure what's causing your error. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Strange font-family behavior on Mac
On 22/6/05 6:52 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marcello Cerruti wrote: I have the same strange problem that you can see on this Apple site page: http://guide.apple.com/index.lasso If you look at the left side column with IE (Mac) or Firefox (Mac) the font is different from the one that you can see on Safari, iCab, OmniWeb, Opera, and on all the Windows browsers as well. Not having a Mac, I can't test this, but: could it not just be the fact that (stab in the dark) Safari and co use a better font smoothing algorithm than FF and IE? As far as I'm aware font smoothing is handled by the OS in OS X, and apps are hands-off in this regard. K -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com
On 24/5/05 4:43 PM, Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/23/05 11:33 PM Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out: I can't speak for all browsers, but I do find it annoying that Firefox on Windows has the print preview option, but Firefox on the Mac does not (latest versions). Makes it hard to recommend for verifying print output (assuming it would be at all accurate in the first place). On FF Mac, just choose File Print and then click on Preview button. No? Hth, Rick Faaberg Actually, that's correct, but more a function of OS X than FF. Still, thanks for reminding me, and apologies for straying off-topic. Kevin -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com
On 22/5/05 10:23 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thierry Koblentz wrote: I was talking about the user, not the designer. Most browsers do not offer a Print Preview option Getting off topic (so perhaps email me back off list) but: which browsers exactly? I can't speak for all browsers, but I do find it annoying that Firefox on Windows has the print preview option, but Firefox on the Mac does not (latest versions). Makes it hard to recommend for verifying print output (assuming it would be at all accurate in the first place). Kevin -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox bug?
On 2/5/05 8:04 AM, Matt Thommes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I experience this vertical line problem quite a bit. It only happens on my Mac - using Firefox. It's something to do with Firefox, because it doesn't seem to happen in any other browser. Also, I don't recommend Firefox for the Mac. For the PC, it's great. The Mac version has issues. Issues? The only serious one I've come across is the completely non-functional Import from file feature. It also delivers more JavaScript errors than any other browser on either platform (apologies to Linux users). Camino has even more issues (naturally, at v0.8.4), but access to the Web Developer toolbar for Firefox certainly makes up for any (real or imagined) shortcomings for anyone hoping to use Web Standards. (For the record, Firefox is my primary browser on both platforms.) Sorry if this is off-topic. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] double space after period
Apologies for being so late on this (been rather busy at work). The double-space after a full-stop (period) thing is simply a notational convention that sprang out of the typing pools of the 1950s. It has nothing to do at all with grammar, and is in fact actively discouraged as practise in the modern age. Many old school secretaries who may have come through 'secretarial school' swear by it, but it's a very out-of-date practise confined to old school corporate documents. Anyone insisting on it now as 'grammatically correct' simply doesn't know what they're talking about. Cheers, Kevin Futter On 23/1/05 10:23 PM, Iain Gardiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It certainly has nothing to do with grammar, it's more a presentation convention that has evolved with type. As for a solution, maybe the CSS property 'white-space: pre' would work? Iain -- Iain Gardiner http://www.firelightning.com -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Help - newbie
Even Dreamweaver's code editing mode does this (context-sensitive syntax highlighting). There's been a good deal of derogatory commentary about Dreamweaver recently, but as a web IDE I think it's fantastic. Where people get into trouble is by relying solely on WYSIWYG mode. I rarely use WYSIWYG mode, but if you know what you're doing and stick to code editing mode it's relatively easy to churn out standards-compliant code in DW. On 21/1/05 1:32 AM, Alan Trick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually that's nothing new. Many of the better editors will do that. The reasons I switched were 1) I was using PHP and so many of the nice things like the built in HTML/CSS Validator. 2) Besides syntax highlighting, it doesn't really support PHP (as in being able to parse it on the fly) 3) Doesn't work in linux 4) Eclipse can do everything TSW Webcoder can do, everything I just mentioned (besides 1, but if I was smart enough I could just right and extention for that), and a whole lot more. Alan Trick -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards Macromedia Contribute
On 16/12/04 3:04 AM, david [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sam Whilsts not completely off-topic, this is relevant: It depends on the complexity of the CSS code for layout Macromedia's Contribute uses the same page-render engine as Dreamweaver, and we all know what that's like to work with ;) Actually, at a Macromedia seminar I attended last year, Bob Regan told us that the Contribute render engine was definitely NOT the same as Dreamweaver's (newer and more advanced in fact, as my own tests seem to indicate). He did say however that they were working towards integration and uniformity of the two products, and I got the impression that meant migrating Contribute's engine to Dreamweaver. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] using IE7 script
On 16/12/04 10:50 AM, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't even be relying on my users having IE7, let alone JS being on or off. Hi Natalie, Andreas is not referring to MS's official IE7 here, but an extensive JavaScript solution (confusingly called IE7) that attempts to make IE6 behave in a more standards-compliant manner. See the link that Andreas supplied for more details. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] using IE7 script
On 16/12/04 11:16 AM, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I Know - I think everyone missed my second post that states as much :) Actually, a little bit OT, but I often receive posts out of order or out of sync, so my post actually went off long before your second post arrived. I think this is why when the list admins scream CLOSED on a thread, messages for that thread can still arrive thereafter - we're not being rebellious, just slow to catch up! -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Cross browser background-position
On 16/12/04 2:29 PM, Jonathan T. Sage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alright, so, I am out of ideas... page : http://apathy.jtsage.com/ css: http://apathy.jtsage.com/wp-layout.css is there any way that the effect achieved in firefox / mozilla can be achieved in IE/Win as well? (that of the multiple background images with the one under the content div being fixed at the bottom of the viewport) My problem is that IE/Win does not support background-position: fixed in the same way that gecko does (or at all maybe?) not sure which browser 'get's it right' here, but the desired effect is the one in firefox. IIRC, background-position declarations are supposed to apply to any element that can take an image as a background, but IE/Win supports it only on the body element of a document. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Validating unicode files
On 13/12/04 8:23 AM, Matthew Cruickshank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi chaps, When it comes to text encoding the character range from 127-255 is, as I understand it, disputed territory. In that all kinds of regional hacks were used over the years and with Unicode they're no longer neccessary so I should avoid this range. I was just copying some text together and my xml parser didn't like it because of some characters in this range. It seems that even when you tell notepad.exe to save as utf-8 it sometimes doesn't. So is there a bit of software to validate UTF-8 encoded files? .Matthew Cruickshank http://holloway.co.nz/ My understanding is that it's a known 'feature' of Notepad to add some internal proprietary identifier to UTF-8 encoded files that actually render them invalid, so-to-speak. I'm sure someone else can explain it better than I just did! I've found this article quite useful, though it may not necessarily directly address your problem: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
On 6/12/04 9:31 PM, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Time to call a truce? I am unwilling to change my view as I've seen no reason to do so; in fact, I believe even more strongly now in what I'm saying that I did when this discussion began. If you want to leave it at that, I won't object (not that an objection would be worth much, anyway). OK, time to wrap this up methinks, as you seem to be getting a little testy here Mordechai (and I'm sure this issue's had more than enough air time now). By calling a truce I'm not asking you to change your mind, nor has that been my goal throughout this discussion. I need to state this plainly I think: I'm not against the use of lists for breadcrumbs, I think they're fine; I do however take issue with the notion that they are the only semantically valid approach. I too don't see any reason to change my views on this, which renders further discussion/debate kinda pointless. I respect your views on this issue Mordechai and you argue them well, and I apologise if I've antagonised you in any way, but at the end of the day it's better to 'agree to disagree' and move on to more fruitful discussions. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
On 6/12/04 5:32 AM, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Spence wrote: In my opinion a simple string of a/a would work just fine. The information that you are trying to display is not really a list. I strongly disagree. Breadcrumbs are most definitely a list of links; they're even normally represented as a horizontal list. A list, according to The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=list) is: A series of names, words, or other items written, printed, or imagined one after the other: a shopping list; a guest list; a list of things to do. Paul Farrell wrote: Am I correct in understanding that an ordered list is the best way of marking up a breadcrumb system that shows where a user has been ? As far as ordered or unordered goes, whether it shows where you've been or where you are, either is acceptable, though an ordered list is slightly better. Here's a couple of examples. The first uses borders for the arrows and works in IE6. The second uses generated content. http://testing.pellerweb.com/bclist1.html http://testing.pellerweb.com/bclist2.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** I don't buy the argument that breadcrumbs *have to be* structured as lists. Why? Because they're not a collection of loosely-related list items, like a shopping list or such; rather, a unit of breadcrumbs collectively delineates a *path* to a resource (without resorting to conventional OS-style paths). For me it's a subtle but important difference that allows either approach to work effectively. To take the 'breadcrumbs must be lists' argument to its logical extreme would see us marking up sentences as ordered lists, with individual words as list items, simply because each component has a relationship to its neighbours. I don't see any inherent semantic superiority in the list approach in this case. Perhaps the W3C needs to introduce a breadcrumbs element? Cheers, Kevin Futter -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
On 6/12/04 10:12 AM, Jonathan T. Sage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think for this argument, I would go towards the analogy of driving directions. 1.) Go to the Home page 2.) go the the sub-section etc. Just my thought. As for your comment about sentences as lists, everybody knows that a sentence isn't a list. It needs to be a graphic since it's really a diagram anyways, and the unimportant words don't even go on there. (if you're young enough not to understand what I'm refering to, consider yourself lucky! for those who care to know - http://www.geocities.com/gene_moutoux/diagrams.htm ) ~j I don't buy the argument that breadcrumbs *have to be* structured as lists. Why? Because they're not a collection of loosely-related list items, like a shopping list or such; rather, a unit of breadcrumbs collectively delineates a *path* to a resource (without resorting to conventional OS-style paths). For me it's a subtle but important difference that allows either approach to work effectively. To take the 'breadcrumbs must be lists' argument to its logical extreme would see us marking up sentences as ordered lists, with individual words as list items, simply because each component has a relationship to its neighbours. I don't see any inherent semantic superiority in the list approach in this case. Perhaps the W3C needs to introduce a breadcrumbs element? Cheers, Kevin Futter -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ... everybody knows that a sentence isn't a list - this is a specious argument. Sentences can indeed be construed as a list, particularly those built with dependent clauses (true, this concept applies more readily to paragraphs). I'm not arguing that lists are not the way to go, merely that I don't see that approach as inherently superior, semantically, since the relationship between breadcrumb elements is not as compellingly list-like, and I'm beginning to understand why some are labelling lists as 'the new tables'. But like I said, I don't think either approach is inappropriate. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
On 6/12/04 11:09 AM, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Futter wrote: I don't buy the argument that breadcrumbs *have to be* structured as lists. Why? Because they're not a collection of loosely-related list items, like a shopping list or such; rather, a unit of breadcrumbs collectively delineates a *path* to a resource (without resorting to conventional OS-style paths). No, they're not loosely related collection of items, they're strongly related, so all the more so they should be a list. To take the 'breadcrumbs must be lists' argument to its logical extreme would see us marking up sentences as ordered lists, with individual words as list items, simply because each component has a relationship to its neighbours. I don't see any inherent semantic superiority in the list approach in this case. A sentence isn't a collection of related item because each word is dependent on the rest of the sentence to give it meaning. In a list, while the list itself may impart context, each item otherwise stands on it's own. Adding or removing items from a list doesn't change the meaning of the list, nor its members. Adding or removing words from a sentence changes the meaning of the sentence to such an extent that it may make the sentence meaningless. As with words of a sentence, to a slightly lesser extent, so could be said about sentences of a paragraph. Yes, breadcrumb elements are strongly related in exactly the same way that sentence elements (i.e. words) are; and sentences can be rendered with precise meaning even if some words are omitted (prepositions, conjunctions, most adverbs, many adjectives). You're chasing your tail here. Also, while the order of an ordered list imparts meaning to the list, little or no meaning is imparted to its item. Change the order of the words of a sentence, not only can the sentence take on new meaning, so can its words. This is true, and in my opinion only makes it more useful in a breadcrumbs context, as you can't arbitrarily move breadcrumb elements around or omit them without destroying the meaning of the whole, either. Perhaps the W3C needs to introduce a breadcrumbs element? In XHTML 2 there's a navigation list (nl). I did not know that - it sounds useful. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
On 6/12/04 2:23 PM, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Futter wrote: Yes, breadcrumb elements are strongly related in exactly the same way that sentence elements (i.e. words) are; and sentences can be rendered with precise meaning even if some words are omitted (prepositions, conjunctions, most adverbs, many adjectives). Not at all in the same way. Each word in a sentence gets its meaning from the sentence, while with breadcrumbs its the list which receives meaning from the items. It's the commonality which the items bring to the list which gives the list meaning. Words of a sentence have no commonality outside the sentence. Removing any word from a sentence removes meaning from the sentence. Take His car, versus His blue car. The latter conveys more meaning than the former. A longer breadcrumb list may provide more information than a shorter one, but no additional meaning. I think we're crossing at talked purposes here. I see breadcrumbs as a complete unit - just as a file path is a complete unit; take out a component and you render it useless. The fact that each breadcrumb unit is hyperlinked to the resource it represents is less important in my view than the fact that they clearly show where you are in the document hierarchy. And therein lies the rub: lists are one-dimensional, as you yourself point out elsewhere; breadcrumbs attempt to represent a path across the document hierarchy, whereas lists imply, and are taken to imply, that each element exists on the same hierarchical plane. To me, they imply a semantic structure that is not consistent with what breadcrumbs are trying to achieve. A word outside a sentence is of little worth, however, the value of a link is unchanged irrespective of whether or not it's in a list. If I were to say blue, you would likely respond 'Blue what? because the word blue isn't useful on its own. On the other hand, the link http://www.somedomain.com/thispage.html; means the same thing wherever you encounter it. I disagree - there is profound meaning in a single word, but we're definitely off-topic for web standards now! But as I said earlier, I'm not so interested in the individual breadcrumb components, linked or not, as I am in the breadcrumb unit as a whole. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
On 6/12/04 4:04 PM, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Futter wrote: Less important doesn't mean not important. Exactly, which is why I didn't say not important ... And therein lies the rub: lists are one-dimensional, as you yourself point out elsewhere; breadcrumbs attempt to represent a path across the document hierarchy, whereas lists imply, and are taken to imply, that each element exists on the same hierarchical plane. Not ordered lists. The fact that they are ordered gives them a hierarchy. You can slice it and dice it however you want, but 'order' does not mean 'hierarchy'. Any given unit cannot exist in the same physical or virtual space as any other unit, so it has to displaced from them. This displacement has to be ordered, sometimes arbitrarily; the result is not necessarily a hierarchy, and it is folly to assume that it is so. Order is horizontal integration, hierarchy is vertical integration. Perhaps, except semantics are important to Web standards. Perhaps, but Web standards semantics are not the same as linguistic semantics, and neither has much to do with the compressed meaning a single word can contain. Time to call a truce? -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
Title: Re: [WSG] Code or Markup In the document editing and proofing field (obviously related to the typesetting industry as its natural precursor in the workflow chain), markup is the word used to describe an editors or a proofreaders copy editing symbols. Corrections are made by hand using a specialised symbol set and then handed off to the relevant person to implement the document is said to be marked up for correction. Getting further off topic here ... Cheers, Kevin On 3/12/04 12:29 AM, Marilyn Langfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, speaking again as a print designer, markup is a typesetting industry term meaning applying styles (yes style tags) to text (and has been for a very long time). Used to be, you'd mark up text to send to the typographer. They'd apply that markup to text in whatever technology was employed at the time (hot metal to phototype). With desktop publishing wiping out that industry, anyone who styles text (read content) is marking it up--whether in Word or BBedit, WordPress or Dreamweaver. I'd say that CSS is a markup language developed to separate markup from coding, Which is why CSS works together with XSLT to style XML. I don't know the history. Was CSS developed first for XSLT/XML and then applied to HTML? Or vice versa? Best regards, Marilyn Langfeld http://www.langfeldesigns.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.301.598.3300 business phone +1.301.598.0532 fax +1.202.390.8847 mobile -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
On 2/12/04 1:33 PM, Nick Lo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This seems a silly question but it bounces about enough that whilst discussing it with a client I thought I'd put it to the list. During development when referring to HTML (and perhaps CSS) with a client do you use the term code or the more pedantically correct, though perhaps less recognised, term markup ? I'm asking as I often wonder which one the client grasps first. From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing: code: software Instructions for a computer in some programming language, often machine language. The word code is often used to distinguish instructions from data (e.g. The code is marked 'read-only') whereas software is used in contrast with hardware and may consist of more than just code. markup text In computerised document preparation, a method of adding information to the text indicating the logical components of a document, or instructions for layout of the text on the page or other information which can be interpreted by some automatic system. For example, the source of this dictionary is marked up by enclosing cross-references in curly braces which are significant to the World-Wide Web server software. Nick I tend to use 'code', because a) this indeed makes more immediate sense for the client, and b) in a less technical definition, markup *can* be considered code, in that markup tags are the codes that the relevant parser requires to render the expected output. In fact, my other commonly used option is just to say 'HTML' - just about everybody understands roughly what that is, conceptually at least. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Focus highlighting, was Re: [WSG] Some links for light reading (30/11/04)
I interpreted 'IR' to stand for 'image replacement', such as FIR and sFIR et al. Cheers, Kevin Futter On 1/12/04 7:50 AM, Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure what IR refers to. Here's the the CSS rule explained: snip -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Adobe Forum comment on CSS in visual editors
On 26/11/04 6:10 PM, Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/25/04 9:46 PM Sam - SS29 [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out: As far as I see Adobe is not to bothered with webstandards, Macromedia see standard compliance as a string to DW bow. The adobe site is based old skool web design, surface looks nice but underneth its ugly. Sorry, but your post is idiotic. I use GoLive everyday and all the code it produces is standard. What GoLive are you using that produces non-standard code? Rick Faaberg Ps. Please learn to spell, and to use apostrophes for plurals and contractions correctly. Thanks! This is decidedly off-topic but I'll put it out there anyway. Rick, I hope you're not suggesting here that plurals require apostrophes! For the record, plurals only require apostrophes if they are also possessive. I'm sure you're phrasing is just misleading here - we can discuss it off list if necessary. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Margin Madness
Actually, it's been my experience that using transparent makes no difference to the layout problems. For me, I've always had to define a border colour - obviously the same as the background colour - in order for this 'hack' to work. Cheers, Kevin Futter On 1/11/04 10:55 AM, Andrew Krespanis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another is to add a 1px border of the same colour as the container - depends on your need. Or even border:1px solid transparent; Andrew http://leftjustified.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firebird / Mozilla
On 3/11/04 1:09 AM, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2 Nov 2004, at 11:38 PM, Sam Hutchinson wrote: Hi all, Fairly new here and been monitoring list for a day or so, all very useful stuff. Anyway, i'm having a bit of trouble with hanging images - my right image hangs into the footer on Mozilla - any ideas? http://www.sammyco.co.uk/pages/solutions/default.html Page validates as xhtml css, and works ok everywhere else but still looks slightly odd in Moz Cheers Sam --- - SAM[MY]CO » CREATIVE DESIGN SOLUTIONS » website [re]launch november 04 http://www.sammyco.co.uk/ ...let's fix the web ! Just noticed something about Sam's javascript - he's using a chunk of code to display a rotating message in the status bar - and in Firefox, even when I have another site loaded in a new tab, Sam's contact details are still happily rotating right there at the bottom of the screen. Not very friendly - kind of hijacks the second site... Comments? (or not, if it's OT) I've noticed this about Firefox too - it appears that the status bar belongs to the parent window, and child tabs open in the same window will inherit any status bar wrangling that is applied to that window. IMHO this is a minor flaw in the way Firefox uses the status bar, as it should be relative to the current tab, not the 'containing' window. Do any other tabbed or Gecko-based browsers exhibit this behaviour? -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] skip to content (was: Site Review Request)
While I agree with the idea of clarifying the destination, I disagree with the logic of your choice here. The pronunciation issues with A are significant enough to warrant B as the first choice. Cheers, Kevin On 27/10/04 6:48 PM, Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clarify the destination. So if there is more than one set of content B. otherwise A. mike 2k:)2 marqueeblink e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk /marquee/blink -Original Message- From: john [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27 October 2004 09:38 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] skip to content (was: Site Review Request) So, what do others think? A. skip to content B. skip to main content C. skip navigation ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter Damian Sweeney wrote: Regarding skip to content links, I found this article recently about usability testing of screen reader users: http://www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0304-observing.html In particular under the 'Many want to skip the navigation, but don't use that feature' section: Some developers have used the phrase Skip to Content instead of Skip Navigation. Good idea. But it does not work because content in English can be a noun or an adjective. JAWS reads it here as an adjective with the accent on the second syllable. So it does not make sense to users. A solution that does seem to work is Skip to Main Content. JAWS reads that correctly as the noun content with the accent on the first syllable. Cheers, Damian I like it. Clean and simple. IMO, you should include a skip to content link for the screen readers. ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter Daniel Bowling wrote: Hello, I would greatly appreciate any feedback for my personal site regarding design, standards compliance, usability and general code quality. http://www.danbowling.com Thank you for your time, Dan Bowling W: http://www.danbowling.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Stadards Site Section
Hi Chris,
The semi-accessible way of creating JavaScript pop-ups would go something
like this:
Create a js function called popWindow() or somesuch, with all the relevant
code to create your pop-up window. Your HTML code would then look something
like this:
a href=myWindow.html onclick=popWindow('myWindow.html'); return
false;Click here/a
This essentially creates the pop-up window if JavaScript is available, but
falls back to just loading the linked page in the same window if it isn't.
Cheers,
Kevin
On 25/10/04 6:18 AM, Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
It doesn't keep page count down after thinking about it, can you direct
me to the correct solution you alluded to.
C
On Saturday, October 23, 2004, at 11:30 PM, Mordechai Peller wrote:
Chris Kennon wrote:
I dread the use of JS pop up windows, but would like to keep the
page count down,
Besides being potentially inaccessible to those without JavaScript
(unless done correctly) or XP SP2, and annoying to those where it does
function (again, depending on how and where it's done), since each
pop-up is a separate page, how does it keep the page count down?
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Imagination is more important than knowledge.
-Albert Einstein
Chris Kennon
Principal
ckimedia (www.ckimedia.com)
ph: (619)429-3258
fax: (619)429-3258
e-mail: ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Re: [WSG] Stadards Site Section
On 25/10/04 12:13 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Futter wrote:
a href=myWindow.html onclick=popWindow('myWindow.html'); return
false;Click here/a
Small modification: use popWindow(this.href) to refer back to the A
element's HREF attribute. This way, if you change the href at some
point, you won't have to remember to change the javascript as well, as
it will automatically pick it up...
Patrick H. Lauke
Thanks Patrick - I wasn't aware of this trick. Nice one.
Kevin
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Re: [WSG] 256 colours or the whole enchilada?
Here's a link to an article that convinced me the Websafe colour palette sits alongside Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster ... http://webmonkey.wired.com/webmonkey/00/37/index2a.html?tw=design Cheers, Kevin Futter On 21/10/04 4:49 PM, Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.mail-archive.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?method=andformat=shortconfig=ws g_webstandardsgroup_orgrestrict=exclude=words=Web+safe+colours+-+still+rele vent will answer our question Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Andreas Boehmer wrote: Out of curiosity: what's your stand to the 216 web colours? Do you stick with them or do you go the full 16 bits? I personally have stopped limiting myself a long time ago (unless absolutely necessary), but keep coming across articles warning me from doing so. What's your thoughts? Andreas Boehmer User Experience Consultant Phone: (03) 9417 0468 Mobile: (0411) 097 038 http://www.addictiveMedia.com.au Consulting | Accessibility | Usability | Development ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Broken Menus and Bullets
I interpreted this as a z-index issue too ... (but I didn't check the code). Kevin On 21/10/04 1:48 PM, Stephen Cheshire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the z-index of the block of text starting with Maecenas laoreet laoreet... is it greater than the submenus? Because I'm thinking the menus aren't transparent but simply behind the text? Steve. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Natalie Buxton Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2004 1:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Broken Menus and Bullets Hi All Im having big issues with a design Im working on. Example live: http://pixelkitty.net/devel/wsg/whirl.php The left Menu is broken in both Mozilla and IE on Windows. As you go further down, the menu items are transparent. The menu is the basic one from ALA's horizontal drop down example. issue two is that when the menu is included in the #sidebar , my bullets dissapear in the #content. This issue is driving me completely insane and I just cannot work out where the conflict is. Looking forward to your advice. Natalie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] w3c badges
Hi Rick, You're not tied to using the W3C images, and there are a few good replacements around. I'm using a pretty common set of examples on the front page of my site (http://www.klp.com.au/). They're not mine, and I've forgotten exactly where I borrowed them from (so apologies to the original creator), but they are free to use (otherwise I wouldn't be using them). I also agree with your last point - the general public neither knows nor cares about this stuff. We developers only do it for self-congratulation and brownie points from other developers and standards zealots. I'd certainly think twice (or more) before putting them on a client's site. Cheers, Kevin On 18/10/04 12:50 PM, Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Who can I send a suggestion to at W3C that they make their web badges a lot more subtle (and smaller) so that I would actually use them on my sites? Or do I just put up text that says W3C Valid? Is that what you do? Or just forget it entirely, 'cause who beside developers care in the first place? Best, Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] w3c badges
I think for most clients you just don't go there - after all, it's their site, not yours. They don't know or care about web standards, and neither do their clients - it just doesn't mean anything to them, so is hardly useful for evangelical purposes. Imagine if all TV commercials had a SMPTE banner splashed across their final moments ... (Still, there are always exceptions.) Cheers, Kevin On 18/10/04 2:08 PM, Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also agree with your last point - the general public neither knows nor cares about this stuff. We developers only do it for self-congratulation and brownie points from other developers and standards zealots. I'd certainly think twice (or more) before putting them on a client's site. What is your opinion (and practice) with regard to putting the W3C badges on you clients' sites? I'm thinking just don't do it. Best, Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS caching problem in IE and Firefox
Hi Sean, IE on both platforms is notorious for its caching issues, but is especially tenacious on the Mac (though this is the first time I've heard of problems with Firefox). The usual solution, which doesn't always work, is to hold down the shift key while hitting refresh/reload (from memory, it's the option key for IE/Mac - maybe someone else here can clarify). In the past, I've had to resort to deleting temporary Internet files, closing the browser, restarting the machine and starting from scratch (on Windows). Even then my mileage varied. Good luck! Kevin Futter On 13/10/04 8:21 AM, Sean Ho @ W3 Compliant Sites [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I am having this caching problem everytime I update my CSS file and the browser suddenly stop showing the new changes. This only happens in IE and Firefox occasioinally. I realised it straight away it's a caching problem but often clearing the cache (or temporary internet files in IE) doesn't make any difference. The only browser that I know that does work everytime though is Opera. But for IE and Firefox, I sometimes have to wait for 10 or 15 minutes before I hit refresh then only it will register the new changes. I use Firefox mainly for my browsing but always check my pages in IE and Opera. Is there anything I can do when this problem occur again for IE and Firefox? Lil' annoyed, Sean. http://w3csites.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mac Tools Kit for Web Standards Developer
On Windows I use Crimson Editor (sorry, can't provide a link right now, but I'm sure Google can), which shares many of the same features as SubEthaEdit, such as syntax colouring for multiple languages. In fact, in Crimson this is extensible through syntax modules, so in theory it could support ANY syntax. It's free, too. Cheers, Kevin Futter On 12/10/04 1:05 AM, Genau Junior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anybody knows some software like that for Windows? Genau Lopes Júnior WebDesigner - Original Message - From: Clayton Lengel-Zigich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Mac Tools Kit for Web Standards Developer I really like SubEthaEdit! http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/ On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:20:42 +1000, Amit Karmakar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just ro reiterate. Style Master rocks! Nothing come close to it. I switched a few months back and only ever use my windows box sparingly. There is no coming back from a PowerBook! While I use BBEdit a lot I do like Xpad a whole lot too for quick edits etc On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:52:28 +1000, John Allsopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Andy Budd Not forgetting Style Master http://www.westciv.com/style_master/ Andy Budd Yeah, I was waiting for that one to come up. Thanks Andy and Geoff Review comparing Mac CSS Editors at the bible MacWorld here http://www.macworld.com/2004/07/reviews/cascadingstylesheeteditors/? lsrc=mwweek-0719 John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ :: WebEssentials Sept 2004 Sydney Australia :: http://www.we04.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://karmakars.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Clayton Lengel-Zigich http://www.lengelzigich.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mac Tools Kit for Web Standards Developer
I use Dreamweaver MX2004 for site development and SubethaEdit for nuts and bolts text editing. I know some people are leery of DW because they see it as purely a WYSIWYG solution, but its code editing tools are robust and its site management tools can't be matched by any text-editor. And it makes a decent fist of producing compliant code. I almost never switch it to visual layout mode these days. SubethaEdit is impressive, especially given that it's free, and it comes with a bunch of preset 'pretty print' modules for code colouring in a number of syntaxes. By the way Kristof, I use Transmit too, but unlike you I think it sucks, and is poor in comparison to things like WS_FTP on Windows. Cheers, Kevin On 9/10/04 2:13 AM, Kristof Rutten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Geoff, I've 'switchted' sides in March of this year and haven't returned to my old Win-platofrm ;) Tools I use most while desingning : CSSEdit from MacRabbit - http://www.macrabbit.com/cssedit/ Transmit - a great FTP client -http://www.panic.com/transmit/ CocoaMySQL - database tool - http://cocoamysql.sourceforge.net/ Take care, the OS X platform is highly adictive and you are not likely to return to your old win/linux boxes ;) Regards, .K On 08 Oct 2004, at 12:36, Geoff Deering wrote: Hi, I'm wondering what tools Mac developers out there use? I'm basically and windows and linux person, but will get a small iBook for travelling and testing on next week. I'll be OS in Nov/Dec and need to still do some work, so I need to be able to work pretty comfortably on the Mac. On Windows I mainly use TopStylePro. Appreciate any Mac software tips for standards based development - Regards Geoff Deering ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mac Tools Kit for Web Standards Developer
On 11/10/04 10:11 AM, Paul Connolley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11 Oct 2004, at 00:54, Kevin Futter wrote: SubethaEdit is impressive, especially given that it's free, and it comes with a bunch of preset 'pretty print' modules for code colouring in a number of syntaxes. By the way Kristof, I use Transmit too, but unlike you I think it sucks, and is poor in comparison to things like WS_FTP on Windows. Transmit is quite nice but is as good an FTP client as Fugu or Cyberduck. Combine this with the fact that they both work with SEE (SubEthaEdit), in that it combines SFTP functions with the editor, I don't need a website management program. True, but try doing a site-wide, 200-page find-and-replace with a text-editor; or move a dependent file to a new directory and have the software automatically update all dependent links in all pages ... Anyway, I fully appreciate that we all have our various ways of working! Cheers, Kevin Futter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
Title: Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
For the line wrapping issue, you could try:
whitespace: nowrap;
On whatever element is giving you trouble.
Cheers,
Kevin Futter
On 5/10/04 11:28 AM, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm putting together a semantically correct UL of links for my footer.
I'd like to have them separated by 'pipes' as this is a common and easily recognised technique.
But the pipes themselves are irrelevant (semantically). So here's what I've come up with...
ALSO! My one thing is that if the text inside the links is made up of two or more words, then they get pushed to separate lines. Is there a way to avoid this without specifying a width or without putting a 'no broken spaces' between the words?
Can you suggest anything better?
style type=text/css
#footer {
text-align: center;
}
#footer ul li {
display: inline; width: 1px;
margin: auto 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: 1px solid #00;
line-height: 120%;
}
#footer ul li:first-child { border-left: none; }
/* Not rendered by a few agents, so we'll use the 'footerBorderKill' _javascript_ function switches off the first child's left border */
/style
div id=footer
ul id =contentLinks
lia href="" title=Link 1 accesskey=1link/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 2 accesskey=2link with multiple words/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 3 accesskey=3link/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 4 accesskey=4linknbsp;withnbsp;NoBrokenSpaces/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 5 accesskey=5link/a/li
/ul
ul id=validationLinks
lia href="" href="http://validator.w3.org/check/referer">http://validator.w3.org/check/referer rel=external title=Check XHTMLxhtml/a/li
lia href="" href="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer">http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer rel=external title=Check CSScss/a/li
lia href="" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/ rel=external title=View licensecc/a/li
/ul
/div
script type=text/_javascript_//![CDATA[
// Kills the Left Border on the Footer Navigation
function footerBorderKill() {
myBody=document.getElementById('footer');
myBodyElements=myBody.getElementsByTagName(ul); // Gets all the UL elements that are children of 'footer'
for( var i = 0; i myBodyElements.length; i++ ) {
myList=myBodyElements.item(i); // Loops through all the ULs in the footer
myListElements=myList.getElementsByTagName(li); // Gets all the LI elements that are children of the ULs
myLI=myListElements.item(0); // Gets the first item of the list of LI elements
myLI.style.borderLeft = 'none'; // And sets its border to nothing
}
}
window.>
//]]/script
Re: [WSG] IE problem with CSS tabs
Actually, I apply classes and styles to hrefs all the time - it's the only way to emulate button functionality on a text link. Cheers, Kevin On 1/10/04 9:23 AM, David McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My very sincerest apologies, John. I made one small change to the HTML before I started fiddling with the CSS (but which I completely forgot to tell you about). I applied the active class to the list item, rather than the a link: ul id=tabmenu li class=activea href=./index.htmlhome/a/li I'm pretty sure that you don't apply classes to the a href bit. I've never seen it done (which is why I changed it) but others may know better. Sorry about that. This is the one that works for me. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of john Sent: Thursday, 30 September 2004 6:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] IE problem with CSS tabs Thanks, David, for the suggestions (and for the code). I implemented the changes, however nothing seems to have changed. I don't understand why that would be, as everything you said makes perfect sense. However, I'm still not the getting the you are here active tab in IE. Any other possible ideas I should consider? Thanks again. ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PNGs and IE windows
My understanding is that while IE Win supports the display of PNG files, it doesn't support any of their transparency features. If you want to use transparency for images in a cross-browser safe way, GIF is really your only option. I wouldn't be holding my breath for IE to catch up either ... Cheers, Kevin Futter On 30/9/04 8:48 AM, Wayne Godfrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could someone please explain what I can and can't do with a PNG image in IE Windows? I have a logo with a soft drop shadow that works everywhere except IE Win. In IE, there is a gray box that where the transparency should be. So I tried one with a solid drop shadow and the transparent part of the PNG still shows gray. I've read that I can't use alpha transparencies with IE, but I'm not sure how IE defines alpha transparencies. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks to this list, I've had three or four questions answered without ever asking, in the four days I've been a part. I only wish I felt more able to answer some questions myself... Wayne Godfrey ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] fixed background...
The 'fixed' property for element background images works in IE only for the body selector, and fails in all other cases. Cheers, Kevin On 28/9/04 7:27 PM, john [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen: I'm attempting my first fixed background, and I have one question and need one solution to a problem. question: is it supposed to work in IE? problem: in FF, even though I believe the syntax is correct, it's not fixing. I have a sidepanel ID created specifically to house the fixed image (and I've also stuck the same image on the page itself, for experimentation purposes). I tried, instead, to fix the image as a background of the content ID (floating left and bottom), but I was getting whitespace gaps in the image, and the content in the content ID was wigging in IE...that remains a mystery. I admit that I'm very new at this stuff, and so I'm rather embarassed to even mention it (worrying that it's a simple mistake that is easily corrected). You can see what I'm talking about at http://www.drzeus.net/redesign/cslewis/ Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. I have other questions (ie: how can I get the menu to stick in place in IE as it does in Firefox), but I'll save those for another time. ;) Much obliged! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mac IE5 double character weirdness
Hi James, I get it too on IE 5.2, but only for the password field, not the username field. The only difference I can see between the 2 fields is the 'value=' attribute, so maybe try adding that to the password field and see if it makes any difference. Kevin On 28/9/04 1:17 PM, James Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Looks like it's Mac IE 5 day today... Has anyone experienced this before? Mac IE 5.x user hits a page with a login form. When they tab to the form field and type in their details two characters appear for every one typed. If the user clicks in the field with their mouse the problem goes away. Here's the markup, pretty standard stuff: fieldset legend Returning user login/legend label for=emailEmail address input class=textfield name=email type=text id=email value= /label label for=passwordEmail password input class=textfield name=password type=password id=password /label /fieldset You can see it in action at my.spamtrap.net.au (but only duplicated with the above browser). Validates as HTML 4 Trans. Cheers James ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Embedding Flash
I thoroughly agree with David here. Web standards are a means to an end and not an end in themselves. The way I see it, the point of web standards is to a) separate form from content and both from behaviour; b) make all content equally accessible to the widest possible audience; c) provide a predictable, reliable model that we can all work with. It seems to me that trying to use 'web standards techniques' for embedding Flash content fails at least two of these aims, and isn't worth pursuing just so that some software program will 'validate' your code. If you've done everything else pretty close to right, then the only validation you really need is that your intended audience sees everything they need to see. After all, Flash content isn't that accessible to begin with - insisting on embedding it with strictly valid code is a bit like putting handles on an elephant to make it easier to carry across a swollen river ... Cheers, Kevin Futter On 24/9/04 8:53 AM, David McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reiterating Ben's comments and Zeldman's summary of the problems with the Satay method in Designing With Web Standards, that's exactly the problem with the Satay--sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. On some browsers, on some machines, sometimes. I think Zeldman's comment is how many people do you want to choose to alienate? This may sound like heresy in this list, but the goal of using Web standards is not to get your site to validate. (Wait, put down that pitchfork!) The way I see it people, is that it's all about people. The goal is to make it better for people. Better for viewers, who don't get things looking like krud because they choose the 'wrong' browser or platform. Better for people with special needs. Better for people who build and maintain the site and better for the people who will redesign the site when it comes to that. Then, when the forces of good rise up to crush the forces of tyranny all people will live in... Er... sorry, got a bit carried away there... Anyway it may just be better to use the flash default code because it works even if it doesn't validate. No, not the torch! Arrgh! David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Foskett Sent: Friday, 24 September 2004 12:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Embedding Flash Just checked it in: PC: Opera v7, Firefox v1, IE v6. Mac: Safari v1, firefox v1, Netscape v7, IE v5.2 All displayed just fine. I'd remind you to replace some of the alt tags though (intro1.jpg etc). And perhaps consider adding house doctor to the initial h1. mike 2k:)2 marqueeblink e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk /marquee/blink -Original Message- From: Ian Fenn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23 September 2004 11:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Embedding Flash Mark wrote: Unless there is a major reason to be XHTML then I normally use HTML 4.01 - even if only on the pages with flash included. That's what I'm going to do now :-( Thanks for the help everyone! All the best, -- Ian ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list
Re: [WSG] css validation error
My understanding was that there shouldn't be a comma in the shorthand font
selector after Trebuchet MS (but I could be wrong ...).
Cheers,
Kevin Futter
On 20/9/04 4:26 PM, John Oxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe you could try not using the font shorthand to get it to validate,
try it as font-family etc. Could it be that there is something missing
from that rule? Certainly one I have had problem with before.
Cameron Muir wrote:
Thanks for pointing that out John - serves me right for not cleaning out
disused styles.
However, I'm still getting the same error.
John Oxton wrote:
Hi Cameron,
You have this
.paymate {
position: relative:
top: 20px;
right: 10px;
}
the position:relative needs a semi colon and you should be on your way
Regards,
John,
Cameron Muir wrote:
Hello,
I can't work out why this is producing an error. I'm sure there must
be a simple solution that I've missed.
body {
font: small Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;
color: #66;
}
The error:
URI : http://design.quagma.net/themes/quagma/style.css
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
Parse Error - : Trebuchet MS
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
Parse Error - sans-serif;
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
Parse error - Unrecognized : { }
The site:
http://design.quagma.net
**
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Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] css validation error
It appears from another post that I am wrong! Oh well ...
Kevin Futter
On 21/9/04 8:56 AM, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My understanding was that there shouldn't be a comma in the shorthand font
selector after Trebuchet MS (but I could be wrong ...).
Cheers,
Kevin Futter
On 20/9/04 4:26 PM, John Oxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe you could try not using the font shorthand to get it to validate,
try it as font-family etc. Could it be that there is something missing
from that rule? Certainly one I have had problem with before.
Cameron Muir wrote:
Thanks for pointing that out John - serves me right for not cleaning out
disused styles.
However, I'm still getting the same error.
John Oxton wrote:
Hi Cameron,
You have this
.paymate {
position: relative:
top: 20px;
right: 10px;
}
the position:relative needs a semi colon and you should be on your way
Regards,
John,
Cameron Muir wrote:
Hello,
I can't work out why this is producing an error. I'm sure there must
be a simple solution that I've missed.
body {
font: small Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;
color: #66;
}
The error:
URI : http://design.quagma.net/themes/quagma/style.css
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
Parse Error - : Trebuchet MS
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
Parse Error - sans-serif;
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
Parse error - Unrecognized : { }
The site:
http://design.quagma.net
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] question about iframe accessibility
Ted - the content between the iframe tags doesn't need to be hidden or commented out; in browsers that support iframes, it's automatically replaced by the content specified in the source attribute, otherwise it's shown. Think of it a little bit like the noframes or noscript tags in old school HTML, where people usually just put something like Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes Cheers, Kevin On 21/9/04 10:26 AM, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's what I figured out. When you have a frame, you need to specify what the content is. You could do this with a title tag or even better, distinct text in the body of the frame. for instance, you would say, this is the navigation frame. I did both. I put a title attribute on the iframe saying title=dynamic calendar and in the body of the iframe I added span class=hiddenDynamic Calendar for form fields/span. This satisfied the requirements and we are now 508 compliant and wai level 1 happy. \/ \/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/ \/ To satisfy level 2 I have a problem with a series of input fields. For multiple travelers, we have 10 boxes for ages. I have a label associated with the first age and then alt tags on the following inputs. Should I wrap all ten inputs in the lable tag as I've seen elsewhere? I'd rather not create a label for each ten boxes. What do you think? Ted -Original Message- From: Ted Drake Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 5:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] question about iframe accessibility We are using a popup calendar for forms on our site and it uses an iframe for the calendar. I'm getting this message from the developers toolbar 508 checker Rule: 1.1.6 - All IFRAME elements are required to contain element content. * Failure - IFRAME Element at Line: 362, Column: 1 I'm not very familiar with iframes. What do you think it is asking for? Here's a reference page http://v4.csatravelprotection.com/csa/twelcome.do and the appropriate code: iframe width=132 height=142 name=gToday:contrast:agenda.js id=gToday:contrast:agenda.js src=../js/cal/ipopeng.htm scrolling=no frameborder=0 style=visibility:visible; z-index:999; position:absolute; left:-500px; top:0px; /iframe There is a javascript that populates this iframe. Do you think the validation engine would be happy with a simple comment tag inside the iframe before the javascript populates it? I'll try for the heck of it. Any other ideas? Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tidy extension for Firefox
Hi James, I can't find this anywhere on the Extensions site - can you point to it specifically? Is it OS or version specific? Cheers, Kevin On 21/9/04 11:10 AM, James Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all Just a heads up for all of you trying to move to standards compliant, accessible code - there's a new extension at Mozilla update called HTML validator with Tidy. This gets triggered when you view the source of a page in Firefox, reporting errors and there is an option to Tidy your page using the inbuilt Tidy library (tidy.sourceforge.net). The options for the extension also have Accessibility warnings, sourced from the W3C WAI @ http://w3c.org/TR/WCAG10/full-checklist.html Go forth, accessify and tidy! There's no excuse now... :D Cheers James ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
