Re: Wargaming (was Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated)
At 18:33 10/3/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: There's a real-life precedent for your scenario: Napoleon's invasion of Russia, and that was just the Priepsky Marshes that he had to navigate. Territory and weather were major causes of the Nazi failure in their attempt at invading Russia, too. Yes, but at what cost to the Russians? According to Tolstoi, Borodino alone accounted for 80k Russian casualties. Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:06:31 -0600, Tom Matkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: virtual breath. Anyway I'm guessing the acronym is Masticate your own beans. No! Were we not discussing food storage and such? It goes with that: Make Your Own Bread! It is good advice for those who stored a lot of wheat, but don't know what you do with it! Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Wargaming (was Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated)
Scott McGee wrote: Mark, Sorry, I misread your post. You said a list of countries who could, and I read it as a list of countries who would like to. My apologies. I was repeatedly interupted yesterday while trying to read my mail (ok, I was trying to read my mail while working on something that had repeated wait a minute periods). Who still watches golf on TV anymore...? -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: Wargaming (was Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated)
Jon Spencer wrote: Actually, I think that there is a realistic way for Mexico to invade Canada, to see if Canada's entire 55,000 member armed forces could beat the Mexican army. Since the US already lets the Mexican army come onto Indian lands in Arizona to protect the drug smugglers, the US could just extend a little corridor of land for the Indians all the way up to the Canadian border, which, of course, the Mexican army would immediately enter. Don't you think that this would work? Jon Hmm, I'm not sure. 55 000 reinforcements might not help them too much. And why should they bother with our military help when La Reconquista is working just fine in a way the militarism *doesn't* understand? -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Although, with Stephen's caricaturism in mind, I should admit that being every bit as human as you all are, if we could, we'd be every bit as well, whatever you want to call it, as you are, if you get my drift. It's just human nature, the natural man at work. John W. Redelfs wrote: At 12:15 PM 10/2/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: We don't paint targets on our chest like the US has a tendency to do. That is exactly what the USA does, and I don't understand it. Why deliberately make enemies around the world unnecessarily? A little MYOB would go a long way to solving America's foreign policy problems. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Who cares. What I want to know is if we'll ever find out what really happened to Elvis. Is that covered by the 9th AoF? John W. Redelfs wrote: At 06:43 PM 10/2/02 -0500 Paul Osborne favored us with: I'll slightly violate a personal (temporary) rule of mine and ask all on this list who think that Canada needs the US to protect it: Canada would beg for US assistance if their country was under attack by aliens from outer space. It could happen. We all need to remember that after Christ comes, there will be no USA or Canada, just Zion. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 20:25 10/2/2002 -0800, BLT wrote: A little MYOB would go a long way to solving America's foreign policy problems. Make your own beer Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 18:02 10/2/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: But we're vastly outnumbered by caribou. I'm thinking that if the aliens are really smart, they'll assume that caribous are the sentient species, and we're just advanced prairie dogs. Besides, they'd be looking for Elvis, and Wawa, Ontario, is the last place they'd think of looking. Go Home Bay, Ontario sounds pretty tempting Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 07:36 AM 10/3/02 -0400 Elmer L. Fairbank favored us with: A little MYOB would go a long way to solving America's foreign policy problems. Make your own beer Mind Your Own Business --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 05:16 10/3/2002 -0800, BLT wrote: Mind Your Own Business --JWR Sorry! 8)) Till the penitent / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
-John- A little MYOB would go a long way to solving America's foreign policy problems. Make your own beer Mind Your Own Business --JWR Seems unnecessarily harsh. Poor Till was just trying to clarify the meaning of the acronym -- and this is a discussion list, after all. Stephen the Peacemaker (1.5 megaton warhead) On the other hand, and it pains me to say this because no one is more to be admired than the venerable Till, but still, I have to say it... Wasn't it the Till who first introduced alcohol into the discussion? That never helps in civil discourse. One can understand JWR responding a little bit harshly when someone wades into a discussion with beer on his virtual breath. Anyway I'm guessing the acronym is Masticate your own beans. JWR's gentle way of suggesting that US foreign policy was slightly overzealous and that nations should be left to chew on their own problems. Of course if JWR comes back at me and suggests that I Mind my own business I'll go the penitent route too. Tom the temperate / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Canada would beg for US assistance if their country was under attack by aliens from outer space. It could happen. I don't think you are trying to be serious, but if aliens ever attacked, it would be the US asking Canada for a safe place to hide. If Canada were being attacked there'd be absolutely nothing the US could do. If, however, you are making an oblique reference to the fall of nukes, well, what good would it do to ask for US assistance? The damage would already be done. And the US couldn't stop the missiles in any case. NMD will not work and will not be built. And, as I've said, no one is interested in nuking Canada. We have the ultimate in stealth technology: a whole stealth _nation_. = Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = -- __ Download the FREE Opera browser at www.opera.com/download/ Free OperaMail at http://www.operamail.com/ Powered by Outblaze / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 10:06 10/3/2002 -0600, Uncle Presidente wrote: On the other hand, and it pains me to say this because no one is more to be admired than the venerable Till, but still, I have to say it... Wasn't it the Till who first introduced alcohol into the discussion? That never helps in civil discourse. One can understand JWR responding a little bit harshly when someone wades into a discussion with beer on his virtual breath. Anyway I'm guessing the acronym is Masticate your own beans. JWR's gentle way of suggesting that US foreign policy was slightly overzealous and that nations should be left to chew on their own problems. Of course if JWR comes back at me and suggests that I Mind my own business I'll go the penitent route too. Of course, being virtual breath that contained the beer, there is implicit the implication that it will sustain no life. Therefore, the Till that wrote that has long since died of suffocation, and is no longer accountable for what was written. Now it remains to be seen if the Till that is scribbling this is a virtual Till or just a vacuous illusion. We just love the reasoning of men. It absolves us of all accountability. Think the concept will sell? What's the area code for Washington DC? Hollywood? . OK, I've looked virtually everywhere for that stupid phone, where could we ha Till the blue ohhh, maybe it stood for muffle your own backside I'm outa here. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
list consists of exactly no one. It used to consist of the Soviet Union, which would absolutely have loved to own Canada the way it owned eastern Europe, and would doubtless have invaded had they believed they had any chance whatsoever of success. --- That's just the point. Had the Soviet Union ever engaged in an overseas invasion? Never. Couldn't have pulled it off. Overseas invasions are tough stuff. Really, really tough. No, I mean way tougher than that. And once you've tried and failed you have to continue failing by trying and failing to hold the territory. A complete nonstarter. -- have.) In the future, it might well consist of China, a country with great resources and vast potential they are beginning to develop. --- Let's distinguish between who might like to and who actually could. China doesn't want to and China will never be able to. See my first paragraph. John alone could hold them off. Of course, now he tells us that he plans to move to Provo in a few years. Very clever, abdicating his responsibility just in time. No, wait, I said that Canada doesn't need US protection. Okay John, you are cleared to go. But swing by our place on the way down, would ya? = Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = -- __ Download the FREE Opera browser at www.opera.com/download/ Free OperaMail at http://www.operamail.com/ Powered by Outblaze / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 13:41:02 -0400, Elmer L. Fairbank [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: At 11:24 10/2/2002 -0600, you wrote: Oh, they have wolves in Provo, too. They stand at the bottom of the long ramp up to southern campus and hand out anti-Mormon tracts. Till thought the wolves in Provo were the RM's prowling for mates No, Tilly, my friend, it is the BYU coeds prowling for RM's! Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Currently, I think you're probably correct. For now. Will that be the situation tomorrow? Are Canadians righteous and God-fearing enough to stand alone against the world, if it comes to that? Will God fight your battles for you? -- No, I'm afraid the Canadians are not more God-fearing and righteous than other peoples. Or rather, better than some, worse than others. So God definitely won't fight our battles for us. At least, I'm not at all sure that He will save Canada for the sake of 150,000 latter-day saints (who may or may not merit it) and others who might merit it. Our practical defense therefore lies in not unduly antagonizing other nations. Then we won't have to have God fight our battles because we won't have battles. Repentance is much cheaper and far more effective but it simply will not happen. At least, that's how I read the scriptures. Wouldn't it be great if I were wrong? = Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = -- __ Download the FREE Opera browser at www.opera.com/download/ Free OperaMail at http://www.operamail.com/ Powered by Outblaze / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Stephen Beecroft wrote: You are my perception. Hey, that could be a Carly Simon song... So far as I know, the entire world and all its people don't even exist, except in my fevered imagination. But I think my perception is at least reasonably justified in this case, based on exchanges like the following from yesterday evening: -Marc- Maybe better food is why our special forces killed more Taliban than your special forces did in Afghanistan over the past six months even though your group is 4 times the size of ours (1300 vs 300)* ;-) It was a yolk (pun intended). Like better food (and who's the judge) really makes the difference. And it's always easy to egg on [pun intended] USAmericans by impugning (at a low broil for 45 minutes, then turn over and repeat) their armed might and implying their eagles might be chickens with an attitude problem... [and this is a joke, too] -John- Yeah, its real nice to know that you Canadians are real killers slaughtering people half way around the word. It must make you feel great. -Marc- I never know whether to feel proud or ashamed. Our problem these days is we are gradually losing our sovereignty to the U.S. and are becoming prisoners of your foreign policy. We don't have a lot of choice -- sometimes you just have to play a bad hand the best you can. That's why I was so surprised when Jean Chrétien criticized Bush's readiness to go to war against Iraq and advised caution. That's rather un-Canadian. Perhaps now you understand the origin of my confusion. The latter part's thread drift. Happens all the time. But I think I knew right from the start the origin of your confusion, so I tried to keep the moral aspect separate from just the factual side, of numbers, who said what, etc. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Mark: If, however, you are making an oblique reference to the fall of nukes, well, what good would it do to ask for US assistance? The damage would already be done. And the US couldn't stop the missiles in any case. NMD will not work and will not be built. Dan: Actually, it would work, (has in multiple tests), but I agree that it probably will not be built. The cost is to great in a world that is beginning to rely on other means. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 13:41:02 -0400, Elmer L. Fairbank [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: At 11:24 10/2/2002 -0600, you wrote: Oh, they have wolves in Provo, too. They stand at the bottom of the long ramp up to southern campus and hand out anti-Mormon tracts. Till thought the wolves in Provo were the RM's prowling for mates Scott: No, Tilly, my friend, it is the BYU coeds prowling for RM's! Dan: We have a friend that is returning home from the Orem area in part because she couldn't get dates there; she was considered too young, at 18. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
I dunno, I kind of like the North Korean translation, Stim-kim-ah-lim-boh, which phonentically spells out an acronym meaning fragrant asparagus stem of revenge against running dog imperialists Stephen Beecroft wrote: -John- A little MYOB would go a long way to solving America's foreign policy problems. Make your own beer Mind Your Own Business --JWR Seems unnecessarily harsh. Poor Till was just trying to clarify the meaning of the acronym -- and this is a discussion list, after all. Stephen the Peacemaker (1.5 megaton warhead) / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:37:27 +, Stephen Beecroft [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: -Marc- Am not sure I follow your point about moral matters. NEWS: US kills enemies in Afghanistan, looks to invading Iraq MARC: Just goes to show you how corrupt the US is. NEWS: Canada kills enemies in Afghanistan, supports Iraq invasion MARC: Just goes to show you how corrupt the US is. Hmm, he did agree with John that there was NO honorable nation on earth, so that implies that Canada is corrupt too. In fact, he criticized Canada for following the same policies he disagrees with the US adopting. He is being very consistent here anyway. I happen to agree with John and Marc, I think (ok, so I am not totally sure of my feelings on the issue yet, I lean HEAVILY towards their views). Is the problem that he mentioned the US and not Canada? He _did_, as I mentioned, criticize Canada too. I think the heart of the matter is that he felt pleased that the Canadien troops were effective (even more so) in the pusuit of Taliban who, despite the corruptness or lack there of of either the US or Canada, were being jutifiably and needfully fought. He also felt that the US was not justified in seeking war with Iraq and that Canada wasn't justified in backing them. I still don't see any conflict. Seriously, your problem _sounds_ like you are upset that a citizen of another country is criticizing the US. Please tell me I am wrong there, but I don't see why else you made this comment. Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm/ - Consolidate POP email and Hotmail in one place / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Newfound is chock full of names like this, the best example of which I can't give because it would break the charter (but it's an ironic name, given that a former Playmate, Shannon Tweed, comes from this town). But some other examples I can think of are Channel-port-aux-Basques, Rose Blanche Harbour le Cou, and L'anse aux Meadows (mixing French and English like this is common) A tickle in Newfoundland English is a small fjiord so you get all kinds of names like Mary's Tickle and so on. Joe Batts Arm is another similar one. Then there are whimsical names that are, well, just whimsical: Hearts Content Little Hearts Ease Come by Chance Nameless Cove Witless Bay Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 18:02 10/2/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: But we're vastly outnumbered by caribou. I'm thinking that if the aliens are really smart, they'll assume that caribous are the sentient species, and we're just advanced prairie dogs. Besides, they'd be looking for Elvis, and Wawa, Ontario, is the last place they'd think of looking. Go Home Bay, Ontario sounds pretty tempting Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
-Marc- Am not sure I follow your point about moral matters. -Stephen- NEWS: US kills enemies in Afghanistan, looks to invading Iraq MARC: Just goes to show you how corrupt the US is. NEWS: Canada kills enemies in Afghanistan, supports Iraq invasion MARC: Just goes to show you how corrupt the US is. -Scott- Hmm, he did agree with John that there was NO honorable nation on earth [...] He is being very consistent here anyway. I perceived inconsistency on several different levels in his treatment of the matter. Seriously, your problem _sounds_ like you are upset that a citizen of another country is criticizing the US. Please tell me I am wrong there, but I don't see why else you made this comment. No, I don't think so. I believe my meaning is reasonably clear to those who have followed the thread from the beginning. If I were to try to explain myself again, I would simply recast the arguments I've already presented, which frankly I just don't really feel like doing, and probably wouldn't do much good anyway. So go ahead and think whatever you choose. My point still stands; if I've presented it incomprehensibly, I guess that's my problem, and if you haven't read carefully enough to understand it, I guess that's yours. In either case, it isn't really very important. President Bush hasn't asked for my input in weeks, and Canada never sent me a refund for monies spent in BC. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 06:35:09 +0800, Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I'll slightly violate a personal (temporary) rule of mine and ask all on this list who think that Canada needs the US to protect it: Please send me a list of Canada's enemies who could invade Canada. Your list will be empty. There is no one. I don't think so. I think the list is far from empty. The list would include many of the same countries that would like to invade Canada. It is just that they are not inclined to try, just as they don't try to invade the US. Part (and I _DO_ know it is only part) of the reason they don't try is _BECAUSE_ of the US. They know that if they tried to invade Canada, they would immediately be attacked by the US. They don't try to invade the US for the same reason. Mexico also benefits from this same effect. The US is known as a country with a very strong military and a willingness to protect their own intrests. (Sticking our nose into other people's business is another topic all together!) Therefore, no country will try to invade us or one of our two nearest neighbors without having a good reason to beleive they can defeat us because they can be quite sure we will repell any such invasion. This subject was tested and proved with the Cuban Missle Crises where the invasion was merely the placing of missles in a closely neighboring country with that contry's explicit approval. Do you not think that China would like to invade Canada if they thought they could pull it off? I am quite sure they would, but are smart enough not to seriously consider such a thing. Do you think the old USSR would have liked to invade Canada? I sure do. Again, they could have beaten Canada possibly, but not the US who surely would have stepped in heavily to defend Canada. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't ascribe any altruistic notions to the US government. If England wanted to invade Canada, it is possible that the US could be kept out of the picture if England could convince them that Canada as ruled by England would be a better allie. No enemy of the US could ever do so without immediate US intervention. The US government is very strongly inclined to seek what it sees as it's own self interest. This means that it will strongly protect a friendly Canadien government from any enemy agressors. I feel quite as sure that the Government of the US would _wish_ to intervene if it felt an unfriendly internal faction was trying to take over control of the government in Canada. I don't know if they would convince themselves to intervene or not as that depends on too many other conditions. So, in conclusion, I think the list you stated would be empty is, instead, rather lengthy. I won't bother to try to fill in the list, but if you were to concede my arguements, you would see that it is indeed a long one. Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Thanks, Scott -- you've summarized my views very well, and succinctly. Scott McGee wrote: Hmm, he did agree with John that there was NO honorable nation on earth, so that implies that Canada is corrupt too. In fact, he criticized Canada for following the same policies he disagrees with the US adopting. He is being very consistent here anyway. I happen to agree with John and Marc, I think (ok, so I am not totally sure of my feelings on the issue yet, I lean HEAVILY towards their views). Scott -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: Wargaming (was Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated)
Mark: But that's just what I refuse to do: concede that any country can do an overseas invasion of Canada. You have heard of wargaming. I mean the real stuff done by the military, not the Saturday afternoon fantasies of teenage boys. Do a wargame of an overseas invasion of Canada. You will be quite astounded at how hard it would be to invade. Dan: Wasn't the movie Red Dawn about the possibility of an overseas invasion? Granted, it was an invasion of the US, but if it'll work here Not to say that I disagree with you, but if a planner is able to 'think outside the box' there _might_ be a way to successfully invade either the US or Canada. But a full scale invasion is not realistic; our enemies have found other easier ways to take us over. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Dan R Allen wrote: Mark: If, however, you are making an oblique reference to the fall of nukes, well, what good would it do to ask for US assistance? The damage would already be done. And the US couldn't stop the missiles in any case. NMD will not work and will not be built. Dan: Actually, it would work, (has in multiple tests), Marc: Tests that would not pass scientific scrutiny, because the criteria were defined ex post facto. Put into plain English, the tests failed miserably and the Pentagon went into full spin control. Not a single test missile fired from Kwajalein has ever hit a target when decoys were present. So the Pentagon simply took that requirement out of its criteria, and, bingo! Success! Dan: I think that you might be relying on old information about the use of decoys during testing. http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2002_04/testapril02.asp Did you actually read this? While it's true that it's more up to date than the information I had (see below), I see they're still using balloons, not real decoys, and they still haven't developed the close-range tracking technology necessary but are relying on shock waves, which isn't part of the design criteria. n the closing seconds before an intercept, the EKV relies on its infrared sensors, as well as preprogrammed information on the objects it is expected to see, to select the right target. Some critics object that the Pentagon is unlikely to have as much information on future enemy warheads and decoys as it does with its own test elements, but Pentagon officials defend the use of preprogrammed information, explaining that they hope to have such information in a future, real-world situation. Trying to deflect any criticism of the Pentagons approach, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz told CNN a day after the test that, before some critic discovers it, this was not a realistic test, adding that the decoys were not as good a decoy as we would expect to face later. Wolfowitz stressed that the system is only a development program at this time. So even the spinmeister admits he's spinning. Complex systems require complex test plans. Testing is done in steps; as the requirements for that step are met, complexity is added to either the system being tested, or the test that it must pass. There is still a large number of tests that need to be conducted before the system could be fielded. We've barely started. The 2 failures reported in the mass media were instances of manufacturing failures, not design or concept failures. So far, other than those two, all of the missile tests have passed the testing requirements; proving that the portion of the concept they were _intended_ to validate is indeed valid. Could you point out where you got the information that the test firings have been such abject failures? My latest information is as of 19/07/01. Sorry I have to quote the whole article and can't just give a URL, but it's in the subscriber area of The Economist: Missile tests If at first you dont succeed... Jul 19th 2001 From The Economist print edition A timely hit in space has helped the Pentagons case THIS time, nobody could accuse the Pentagon of building up unrealistic expectations. In the run-up to its fourth attempt to stop a long-range ballistic missile as it hurtled through space on July 14th, the Defence Department insisted again and again that it did not really matter much whether the $100m experiment worked. What were test failures, anywayso the argument wentexcept a healthy sign that new ideas were being tried out, and new conclusions being drawn? As Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy defence secretary, told Congress, all the best arms programmes began with one setback after another. Failure is how we learn, he insisted. If a programme never suffers test failures, it means someone is not taking enough risks or pushing the envelope. In fact, the test went according to planor so the Pentagon, very cautiously, asserts. First an intercontinental ballistic missile, carrying a mock warhead, was launched from an air base north of Los Angeles. Simultaneously, a decoy balloon was fired in a similar direction. Then, about 20 minutes later and 5,000 miles away, an interceptor rocket carrying a small kill vehicle was unleashed from the Kwajalein atoll in the Marshall Islands; within eight minutes, the killer had detached itself, figured out which was the fake target and collided with the real one at more than 16,000 miles per hour. Pictures relayed to the Pentagon showed an impressive flash of light; there was cheering in the control room. True to his low-key style, Donald Rumsfeld, the defence secretary, followed proceedings from home for the reasonhis spokeswoman saidthat it was just a test. Should American taxpayers be concerned, then, that not enough risks are being taken or envelopes pushed? In one sense, yes. The target was cone-shaped, whereas the decoy was round, and
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 19:02 10/1/2002 -0800, JWR wrote: Yeah, its real nice to know that you Canadians are real killers slaughtering people half way around the word. It must make you feel great. --JWR Just rogue wolves wandered from the Boreal Forest, eh? Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 07:01 AM 10/2/02 -0400 Elmer L. Fairbank favored us with: Yeah, its real nice to know that you Canadians are real killers slaughtering people half way around the word. It must make you feel great. --JWR Just rogue wolves wandered from the Boreal Forest, eh? I love and have a deep admiration for wolves. They mind their own business, and mate for life. Wouldn't if be wonderful if people were more like that? Incidentally, once and a while wolves will come down out of the mountains around here and eat the neighborhood dogs. I haven't heard of it recently, but when I first arrived here in the late '80s, it was the big gossip in town. There is something that fulfills me to live where there are wolves, grizzlies, and ravens. I just love it up here. Of course, when Esperanza retires in a couple of years, we are going to move to the Provo area. And they have a good library, and a good bookstore. I guess one can't ever expect to have it all. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] * For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. (Ephesians 6:12) * All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Yea, John, give them thar Canadians a break, eh? Frankly, I would rather that they slaughter the criminals over there, rather than have more come over here and slaughter more of us. Besides, with the mighty armed services that Canada has (a TOTAL of 55,000), they couldn't even muster up another 800 to replace those who rotated out, so you have little to worry about - it will be a while before Canadians can slaughter any more people. Also, you need not worry that they will invade Alaska - you're safe. I guess Canada is just dependent upon the US to protect them if anyone is ever wacked out enough to attack Canada. Cretan (I meant it that way) must believe that we will protect him even after he badmouths us as he does, and he must depend upon our armed services even though he badmouths them. Canada certainly does not have the ability to defend themselves. Jon Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 19:02 10/1/2002 -0800, JWR wrote: Yeah, its real nice to know that you Canadians are real killers slaughtering people half way around the word. It must make you feel great. --JWR Just rogue wolves wandered from the Boreal Forest, eh? Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
John W. Redelfs wrote: I'll bet they could whip the Mexican army if they were to invade. grin --JWR Now perhaps here is where you and I may agree. However, given that the Mexican army is invading Arizona quite successfully on an ongoing basis, maybe they might night win. Jon / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
I'll bet they could whip the Mexican army if they were to invade. grin --JWR Boy, you are really on a roll these days. grin I thought I was really bad at kicking the beehive. I guess I've met my match! Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 11:24 10/2/2002 -0600, you wrote: Oh, they have wolves in Provo, too. They stand at the bottom of the long ramp up to southern campus and hand out anti-Mormon tracts. Till thought the wolves in Provo were the RM's prowling for mates . / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Am not sure I follow your point about moral matters. Let me put it this way, though: we pay a higher cost for the moral high ground -- look at the reaction of people like Cousin Bill to Chrétien's caution about going to war with Iraq. It's a simple fact of geopolitics that the US has substantial economic control over Canada, and that limits our level ground choices. It doesn't eliminate them, just makes them more expensive. Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Marc- Our problem these days is we are gradually losing our sovereignty to the U.S. and are becoming prisoners of your foreign policy. We don't have a lot of choice -- sometimes you just have to play a bad hand the best you can. Yuko? How long have you been posing as Marc? In any case, I'm glad to see it really was the US's fault, after all. For a brief moment, I feared that perhaps some other country besides the US had to grapple with possible failings in moral matters. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
-Marc- Am not sure I follow your point about moral matters. NEWS: US kills enemies in Afghanistan, looks to invading Iraq MARC: Just goes to show you how corrupt the US is. NEWS: Canada kills enemies in Afghanistan, supports Iraq invasion MARC: Just goes to show you how corrupt the US is. Now is it clear? I can explain more, if you like. Just don't send down your slim-and-trim policemen to beat me up. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Marc- Am not sure I follow your point about moral matters. NEWS: US kills enemies in Afghanistan, looks to invading Iraq MARC: Just goes to show you how corrupt the US is. NEWS: Canada kills enemies in Afghanistan, supports Iraq invasion MARC: Just goes to show you how corrupt the US is. Now is it clear? I can explain more, if you like. Just don't send down your slim-and-trim policemen to beat me up. As I recall this started with me offering to feed you with better food than MRE's ;-) I get it, but as I explained, it's not a level playing field, morally speaking. No part of Zion has lived up to the contract in Ether and we're all corrupt. Much as we would love to take a higher ground, it is too expensive for us. We *could* do it, but your government's actions make it more difficult for us. We have free agency but limited options, which is usually how life works. Stephen -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Mark Gregson wrote: I get it, but as I explained, it's not a level playing field, morally speaking. No part of Zion has lived up to the contract in Ether and we're all corrupt. Much as we would love to take a higher ground, it is too expensive for us. We *could* do it, but your government's actions make it more difficult for us. We have free agency but limited options, which is usually how life works. What would be more expensive and difficult, Marc? Are you saying that it is cheaper for Canada to support nearly every US military operation (i.e. war) than to not support them? Yes. Reluctantly, but that's the conclusion I've come to. That makes no sense to me. My reasoning is that we are being hammered enough by US protectionism as it is -- if we upset the US it could get worse. So I mean expensive literally. So then the question becomes, should we take the moral high road despite the increased financial cost? (we'd need to beef up our military, too, speaking of costs). Look at the reaction Chrétien's remark got in the US. Fox, in particular, for some reason, has their sights set on us, and this is not good. Better to be taken for granted and forgotten about than to become an item on US network news. Are you saying that it is cheaper and easier for Canada to support other US policy actions even if we don't like them and feel that they will be detrimental to our country? That also makes no sense. Literally speaking it may not make sense but I'm trying to explore the options open to us. I'm open to alternatives, believe me. I know you're hesitant to get too involved in political topics at this time, but if you have any ideas, I'm open. I'll slightly violate a personal (temporary) rule of mine and ask all on this list who think that Canada needs the US to protect it: I'll vote in a typically wishy-washy way. It *was* necessary during the Cold War. All those missiles that the US and the USSR had pointed at each other would have been flying over Canada in the case of nuclear war. As you know, we were also pressured by Kennedy to station Bomarc nuclear missiles on Canadian soil. When we refused, the US dismantled our aerospace industry (remember the AVRO Arrow scandal?) and violated our sovereignty by stationing nuclear submarines with nuclear missiles aboard in the straits of the Arctic Archipelago. They still refuse to recognize our sovereignty over the internal waters of the Arctic. It's absolutely NOT necessary today, imo. So record that vote in the context in which you asked the question. Please send me a list of Canada's enemies who could invade Canada. Your list will be empty. There is no one. Hence, Canada does not need _any_ form of US protection. Not economic, not from ballistic missiles (who would launch against us?), not from land invasions, not from sea invasions, not from air invasions, not from no one no how. (Just as a little tip to those who might think that invasions are easy: research the allies' effort in the Gulf War to beat puny little Iraq. Try to extrapolate to massive Canada (one of many caveats: we have winter). Extra hint: try to find any US Cold War plans for the invasion of Russia). LOL. I know what you're getting at. We'll see who else gets it. Can I add John Candy's name as an additional hint? That truth is stranger than fiction? However, here's the kicker: I don't think it's anyone's military we have to worry about, but the US economic might which is steamrolling over us in absolute blatant hypocrisy even now; imagine if we had someone like Paul Martin, who at least speaks one of our official languages, as PM, who told the Pentagon to stuff it. What do you think would happen to Nortel, Canadian Marconi, Spar Aerospace, etc., etc.? (let alone all the unknown little specialists who subcontract to US companies like Lougheed-Boeing and MITRE). I only pray that we become Scotland to their England and not Romania to their Soviet Union. = Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = \-- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
I'll slightly violate a personal (temporary) rule of mine and ask all on this list who think that Canada needs the US to protect it: Canada would beg for US assistance if their country was under attack by aliens from outer space. It could happen. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
-Marc- No part of Zion has lived up to the contract in Ether and we're all corrupt. Much as we would love to take a higher ground, it is too expensive for us. Yes, you would be moral if only it weren't for the US. Darn them! -Marc- My reasoning is that we are being hammered enough by US protectionism as it is -- if we upset the US it could get worse. So what? Don't sell to US markets. Take your ball and go home. The US can't really do much about Canadian trade with other countries, can it? Better to be taken for granted and forgotten about than to become an item on US network news. Or discussion lists. -Mark- I'll slightly violate a personal (temporary) rule of mine and ask all on this list who think that Canada needs the US to protect it: Please send me a list of Canada's enemies who could invade Canada. Your list will be empty. There is no one. Any country that desires Canada's resources or location, and that has resources sufficient for such an invasion. Currently, I believe that list consists of exactly no one. It used to consist of the Soviet Union, which would absolutely have loved to own Canada the way it owned eastern Europe, and would doubtless have invaded had they believed they had any chance whatsoever of success. But your big, mean, smelly neighbors to the south scared them off. (To be fair, it was your big, mean, smelly southern neighbors who gave the Soviets the desire to possess Canada; but judging from European and Asian locations, the Soviets might have wanted to march into American Siberia anyway, just because they could have.) In the future, it might well consist of China, a country with great resources and vast potential they are beginning to develop. As you know, we were also pressured by Kennedy to station Bomarc nuclear missiles on Canadian soil. When we refused, the US dismantled our aerospace industry (remember the AVRO Arrow scandal?) No kidding? The US actually invaded Canada and took apart the aerospace factories? Wow. and violated our sovereignty by stationing nuclear submarines with nuclear missiles aboard in the straits of the Arctic Archipelago. That's one side. The other side is: If your neighbors are carrying typhoid or have rats or mosquitos or some such thing, and refuse to (or perhaps cannot) observe basic hygiene, you (or some other vested authority) might be fully within your rights to demand and enforce a standard of cleanliness that ensures your own safety. Hence, Canada does not need _any_ form of US protection. Not economic, not from ballistic missiles (who would launch against us?), not from land invasions, not from sea invasions, not from air invasions, not from no one no how. Currently, I think you're probably correct. For now. Will that be the situation tomorrow? Are Canadians righteous and God-fearing enough to stand alone against the world, if it comes to that? Will God fight your battles for you? However, here's the kicker: I don't think it's anyone's military we have to worry about, but the US economic might which is steamrolling over us in absolute blatant hypocrisy even now; imagine if we had someone like Paul Martin, who at least speaks one of our official languages, as PM, who told the Pentagon to stuff it. What do you think would happen to Nortel, Canadian Marconi, Spar Aerospace, etc., etc.? I suppose the US would invade Canada, seize control of them, and forcibly dismantle their factories and research facilities, as it did your aerospace industry? I only pray that we become Scotland to their England and not Romania to their Soviet Union. If you quit your bellyaching, we may allow you to catch the anchovies for our pizzas. No promises, comrade. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
But we're vastly outnumbered by caribou. I'm thinking that if the aliens are really smart, they'll assume that caribous are the sentient species, and we're just advanced prairie dogs. Besides, they'd be looking for Elvis, and Wawa, Ontario, is the last place they'd think of looking. Paul Osborne wrote: I'll slightly violate a personal (temporary) rule of mine and ask all on this list who think that Canada needs the US to protect it: Canada would beg for US assistance if their country was under attack by aliens from outer space. It could happen. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 12:15 PM 10/2/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: We don't paint targets on our chest like the US has a tendency to do. That is exactly what the USA does, and I don't understand it. Why deliberately make enemies around the world unnecessarily? A little MYOB would go a long way to solving America's foreign policy problems. Your friend and brother, John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 06:43 PM 10/2/02 -0500 Paul Osborne favored us with: I'll slightly violate a personal (temporary) rule of mine and ask all on this list who think that Canada needs the US to protect it: Canada would beg for US assistance if their country was under attack by aliens from outer space. It could happen. We all need to remember that after Christ comes, there will be no USA or Canada, just Zion. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
-Stephen- Yes, you would be moral if only it weren't for the US. Darn them! -Marc- Your caricature does not accurately represent what I wrote. I think it does, more or less. Your implication has been that Canada's problems originate with the US, and that any of Canada's perhaps less-than-sterling actions are caused because they have little choice but to bow to the yoke of oppression of the southern imperialists and do their bidding. -Marc- My reasoning is that we are being hammered enough by US protectionism as it is -- if we upset the US it could get worse. -Stephen- So what? Don't sell to US markets. Take your ball and go home. The US can't really do much about Canadian trade with other countries, can it? -Marc- We're an export-dependent economy -- 80% of what we make gets exported, and most of that goes to the U.S. Why would we go back to the stone age just to retain the moral high ground (note I said, why *would* we... not why *should* we... No good reason that I can think of, just things like pleasing God, keeping yourselves free of entangling alliances, and so forth. Oh, yes, and the fact that you could spout off on an internet discussion list with some modicum of credibility because of your superior moral position. If you commit immoral actions for the purposes of keeping a foreign market open, fine, but then quit bellyaching about the oppressions of the foreigners. At least the Americans on this list who warn of the potential Chinese threat are consistent in that they abhor the US' trade status with the Chinese, instead of making excuses about how big a market China is. Not badly put, actually. I may have to have this post framed. -Marc- we were also pressured by Kennedy to station Bomarc nuclear missiles on Canadian soil. When we refused, the US dismantled our aerospace industry (remember the AVRO Arrow scandal?) -Stephen- No kidding? The US actually invaded Canada and took apart the aerospace factories? Wow. -Marc- Who wrote that? Not I. You wrote that the US dismantled your aerospace industry. What, you were building arms for the imperialists to the south, and they threatened to take their business elsewhere? That makes you an oppressed nation? Give me a break. If the mob threatens to buy their automatic weapons from another supplier, well, I probably tell them not to let the door hit their butts on the way out. The pressure was, again, exports. I don't think you have any idea how much of your military equipment is built in Canada. So then, why is a pacifist like you berating the US? Oughtn't you to be tending to home business instead, like working to get Canada out of the arms-building business? If the Manhattan had spilled oil, whose environment would have been harmed, who would have had to clean it up, and who would have refused to foot the bill, dya think? Maybe you're right. Please cite a reasonably recent example of the US creating an environmental mess in another country, especially an important strategic/trade partner, and then refusing to do anything to help out. -Stephen- Currently, I think you're probably correct. For now. Will that be the situation tomorrow? Are Canadians righteous and God- fearing enough to stand alone against the world, if it comes to that? Will God fight your battles for you -Marc- If we're righteous. But we're not. Bingo. So perhaps if you don't have the chops to stand on your own, you should quit bellyaching about the bully on your team. -Marc- What do you think would happen to Nortel, Canadian Marconi, Spar Aerospace, etc., etc.? -Stephen- I suppose the US would invade Canada, seize control of them, and forcibly dismantle their factories and research facilities, as it did your aerospace industry? -Marc- The least you could do is make your caricatures funny. Since you didn't find it funny, clearly you are wrong. In fact, I suppose the least I could have done would have been nothing at all. But we aren't all clever enough to be Canadians, so you have to show a little patience. -Marc- I only pray that we become Scotland to their England and not Romania to their Soviet Union. -Stephen If you quit your bellyaching, we may allow you to catch the anchovies for our pizzas. No promises, comrade. -Marc- Spasibo. A Nunavet insult? A Canadian sandwich spread? An anagram of I pass B.O.? Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
By the way, Paul...it is GREAT to see you back on the list! Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/30/2002 8:40:26 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated Why are we (I include myself in that) latter-day saints so reluctant to get our year's supply of food? Not JWR. I have seen his stash. He is loaded with grain! When I visited him in Alaska I told him he may need a gun to protect his stock but he said he has so much he is willing to feed his neighbors too! What a swell guy. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 06:05 PM 10/1/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Maybe better food is why our special forces killed more Taliban than your special forces did in Afghanistan over the past six months even though your group is 4 times the size of ours (1300 vs 300)* ;-) Yeah, its real nice to know that you Canadians are real killers slaughtering people half way around the word. It must make you feel great. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
I never know whether to feel proud or ashamed. Our problem these days is we are gradually losing our sovereignty to the U.S. and are becoming prisoners of your foreign policy. We don't have a lot of choice -- sometimes you just have to play a bad hand the best you can. That's why I was so surprised when Jean Chrétien criticized Bush's readiness to go to war against Iraq and advised caution. That's rather un-Canadian. John W. Redelfs wrote: At 06:05 PM 10/1/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Maybe better food is why our special forces killed more Taliban than your special forces did in Afghanistan over the past six months even though your group is 4 times the size of ours (1300 vs 300)* ;-) Yeah, its real nice to know that you Canadians are real killers slaughtering people half way around the word. It must make you feel great. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Why are we (I include myself in that) latter-day saints so reluctant to get our year's supply of food? Not JWR. I have seen his stash. He is loaded with grain! When I visited him in Alaska I told him he may need a gun to protect his stock but he said he has so much he is willing to feed his neighbors too! What a swell guy. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
