Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Stephan Richter wrote: On Monday 01 August 2005 07:13, Benji York wrote: Hmm, crazy idea: perhaps we should ask the Zope 2 folks (developers) if they'd be willing to do the work to get to 2.4. Jim asked this weekend on Zope-Dev whether someone would like to work on switching Zope 2's security implementation to Zope 3's, iow switch to name-based security. Implementing the proposal would solve a lot (if not all) of the Python version issues. Unless we make the Zope 3 protection scheme optional initially, which is likely. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Martijn Faassen wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: Stephan Richter wrote: ... We will also require Python 2.4 for Zope 3.2, so feel free to use new Python features such as decorators. How did we decide this? Shouldn't we follow a proposal-based policy for a change like this? I would favor Python 2.4 for Zope 3.2, for two reasons: * 2.4 has been out for a while now, and it will be out for a long time by the time december happens. Maintaining a Zope 3.2 for two python versions is a pain. * zope.formlib wants Python 2.4, and I want zope.formlib to be part of Zope 3.2. Note that this also effects Zope 2. Starting with the next release, the Zope 2 and Zope 3 will be released together. Zope 2.9 will include Zope 3.2. If Zope 3.2 requires Python 2.4, then so will Zope 2.9. We can still go back to making Zope 2.9 contain Zope 3.1 instead. I still favor this approach where Zope 2.x trails one version behind Zope 3.x. Working with a stable Zope 3 version makes a Five developer's life easier, and we have less release dependencies to worry about. And we have more Zope releases to maintain and less opportunity for sharing applications between Zope 2 and 3. That's why I want Zope 2 to use the current Zope 3 release. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
On Monday 01 August 2005 07:13, Benji York wrote: > Hmm, crazy idea: perhaps we should ask the Zope 2 folks (developers) if > they'd be willing to do the work to get to 2.4. Jim asked this weekend on Zope-Dev whether someone would like to work on switching Zope 2's security implementation to Zope 3's, iow switch to name-based security. Implementing the proposal would solve a lot (if not all) of the Python version issues. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Martijn Faassen wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: Stephan Richter wrote: ... We will also require Python 2.4 for Zope 3.2, so feel free to use new Python features such as decorators. How did we decide this? Shouldn't we follow a proposal-based policy for a change like this? I would favor Python 2.4 for Zope 3.2 [...] It is a bit frustrating for Zope 2.x developers as they don't have the latest and greatest Zope 3.x but I don't consider this a big problem myself as its only lagging behind 1 release cycle so they only need to wait to get newer features. If we are able to maintain the time-based releases, we'll have another release in June of '06, that means if we use 2.4 for 3.2, Zope 2 will still have to migrate to 2.4, just in 10 months, not in 4. Hmm, crazy idea: perhaps we should ask the Zope 2 folks (developers) if they'd be willing to do the work to get to 2.4. -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Jim Fulton wrote: Stephan Richter wrote: ... We will also require Python 2.4 for Zope 3.2, so feel free to use new Python features such as decorators. How did we decide this? Shouldn't we follow a proposal-based policy for a change like this? I would favor Python 2.4 for Zope 3.2, for two reasons: * 2.4 has been out for a while now, and it will be out for a long time by the time december happens. Maintaining a Zope 3.2 for two python versions is a pain. * zope.formlib wants Python 2.4, and I want zope.formlib to be part of Zope 3.2. Note that this also effects Zope 2. Starting with the next release, the Zope 2 and Zope 3 will be released together. Zope 2.9 will include Zope 3.2. If Zope 3.2 requires Python 2.4, then so will Zope 2.9. We can still go back to making Zope 2.9 contain Zope 3.1 instead. I still favor this approach where Zope 2.x trails one version behind Zope 3.x. Working with a stable Zope 3 version makes a Five developer's life easier, and we have less release dependencies to worry about. It is a bit frustrating for Zope 2.x developers as they don't have the latest and greatest Zope 3.x but I don't consider this a big problem myself as its only lagging behind 1 release cycle so they only need to wait to get newer features. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Julien Anguenot wrote: ... I'm working on a proposal to change Zope 2's security system in 2.9, but that will likely be a big job. You mean migration of Zope2 security system to the Zope3 one right ? Specifically, the protection system at this point. See: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/Zope3ProtectionInZope2 If it's the case I'll be glad to give a hand on this if I can. Great! Short of that, someone would need to do a security review of 2.4. You mean in a Zope's scope or the 2.4 itself ? Someone would have to review Python 2.4 changes to try to assure that language changes don't pole holes in Zope 2's protection system. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jim Fulton wrote: > Julien Anguenot wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Benji York wrote: >> >>> Jim Fulton wrote: >>> >>> I'd liek to hear why testbrowser requires Python 2.4. >>> >>> >>> >>> I haven't tried it on 2.3 yet, but the main thing is the use of >>> decorator syntax. Obviously that wouldn't be hard to back port, if a >>> bit >>> uglier. >>> >>> If we decide we want to continue supporting Python 2.3, then I'd want to try to make testbrowser (and formlib) work with 2.3. We haven't decided that we need to support 2.3. We need to decide and we need to take the Zope project as a whole into account. >>> >>> >>> >>> Personally I'd like 3.2 to require 2.4, but admit that most people (Zope >>> 2 users especially) might prefer we not force that requirement on them. >> >> >> >> I support 3.2 with 2.4 as well. Just for being able to play with new >> Python stuffs :) > > > You can certainly do that in your projects without making > Zope itself require 2.4. sure. > > >> And is it that complicated to have Zope2.9 working with > >> 2.4 ? > > > The problem is that Zope 2's security protection system works > by recompiling Python scripts to insert security checks. > This system has to be reviewed in detail for any change > in the language, which tests to happen for each Python > feature release. > right... > I'm working on a proposal to change Zope 2's security > system in 2.9, but that will likely be a big job. You mean migration of Zope2 security system to the Zope3 one right ? If it's the case I'll be glad to give a hand on this if I can. > Short of that, > someone would need to do a security review of 2.4. You mean in a Zope's scope or the 2.4 itself ? J. - -- Julien Anguenot | Nuxeo R&D (Paris, France) CPS Platform : http://www.cps-project.org Zope3 / ECM : http://www.z3lab.org mail: anguenot at nuxeo.com; tel: +33 (0) 6 72 57 57 66 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFC7OXDGhoG8MxZ/pIRAv9gAJ9CbwP74vJEh3oJYIO0y/HwOQ8ucACdEsRT rrQP7nzRTgRH5TrxGHPf5jU= =EemH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Julien Anguenot wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Benji York wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: I'd liek to hear why testbrowser requires Python 2.4. I haven't tried it on 2.3 yet, but the main thing is the use of decorator syntax. Obviously that wouldn't be hard to back port, if a bit uglier. If we decide we want to continue supporting Python 2.3, then I'd want to try to make testbrowser (and formlib) work with 2.3. We haven't decided that we need to support 2.3. We need to decide and we need to take the Zope project as a whole into account. Personally I'd like 3.2 to require 2.4, but admit that most people (Zope 2 users especially) might prefer we not force that requirement on them. I support 3.2 with 2.4 as well. Just for being able to play with new Python stuffs :) You can certainly do that in your projects without making Zope itself require 2.4. > And is it that complicated to have Zope2.9 working with 2.4 ? The problem is that Zope 2's security protection system works by recompiling Python scripts to insert security checks. This system has to be reviewed in detail for any change in the language, which tests to happen for each Python feature release. I'm working on a proposal to change Zope 2's security system in 2.9, but that will likely be a big job. Short of that, someone would need to do a security review of 2.4. > (because 3.2 will likely be shipped with 2.9 right ?) Right. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Benji York wrote: > Jim Fulton wrote: > >> I'd liek to hear why testbrowser requires Python 2.4. > > > I haven't tried it on 2.3 yet, but the main thing is the use of > decorator syntax. Obviously that wouldn't be hard to back port, if a bit > uglier. > >> If we decide we want to continue supporting Python 2.3, then I'd want >> to try to make testbrowser (and formlib) work with 2.3. We haven't >> decided that we need to support 2.3. We need to decide and we need to >> take the Zope project as a whole into account. > > > Personally I'd like 3.2 to require 2.4, but admit that most people (Zope > 2 users especially) might prefer we not force that requirement on them. I support 3.2 with 2.4 as well. Just for being able to play with new Python stuffs :) And is it that complicated to have Zope2.9 working with 2.4 ? (because 3.2 will likely be shipped with 2.9 right ?) J. - -- Julien Anguenot | Nuxeo R&D (Paris, France) CPS Platform : http://www.cps-project.org Zope3 / ECM : http://www.z3lab.org mail: anguenot at nuxeo.com; tel: +33 (0) 6 72 57 57 66 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFC650aGhoG8MxZ/pIRAm/bAJ9I5nQBIt68ymCWNKe0Z98w+SoEXgCfYzVl pZtDVuZh6pQxiIdyi5mhg7g= =ZTPy -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Jim Fulton wrote: I'd liek to hear why testbrowser requires Python 2.4. I haven't tried it on 2.3 yet, but the main thing is the use of decorator syntax. Obviously that wouldn't be hard to back port, if a bit uglier. If we decide we want to continue supporting Python 2.3, then I'd want to try to make testbrowser (and formlib) work with 2.3. We haven't decided that we need to support 2.3. We need to decide and we need to take the Zope project as a whole into account. Personally I'd like 3.2 to require 2.4, but admit that most people (Zope 2 users especially) might prefer we not force that requirement on them. -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Roger Ineichen wrote: ... Note that this also effects Zope 2. Starting with the next release, the Zope 2 and Zope 3 will be released together. Zope 2.9 will include Zope 3.2. If Zope 3.2 requires Python 2.4, then so will Zope 2.9. Wasn't there a "we don't slow down our development because of z2" in the past. Did this change? Yes. Initially, when deciding what Z3 was, we didn't want to be burdened by trying to provide backward compatibility with Z2. This is still largely true, however, we are working hard to: - Make features of Zope 3 available in Zope 2 - Provide a transition path from Zope 2 to Zope 3. The people working on the Five project deserve special thanks for this and deserve our support. Zope 2 now incluses Zope 3, however, at this point, the Zope 2 version of Zope 3 is out of sync. I think it's important that, going forward, the version of Zope 3 used by Zope 2 is current -- thus the linkage. btw. does this mean we can't write tests with the new testbrowser package and improve the quality of z3? I'd liek to hear why testbrowser requires Python 2.4. If we decide we want to continue supporting Python 2.3, then I'd want to try to make testbrowser (and formlib) work with 2.3. We haven't decided that we need to support 2.3. We need to decide and we need to take the Zope project as a whole into account. ... I think we need to make a proposal for this first. +1 That's really all I'm asking for. :) Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Hi Jim Behalf Of Jim Fulton > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 1:47 PM > To: Stephan Richter > Cc: zope3-dev@zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State > > Stephan Richter wrote: > ... > > We will also require Python 2.4 for Zope 3.2, so feel free > to use new Python > > features such as decorators. 1+ > How did we decide this? Shouldn't we follow a proposal-based > policy for > a change like this? > > Note that this also effects Zope 2. Starting with the next release, > the Zope 2 and Zope 3 will be released together. Zope 2.9 will > include Zope 3.2. If Zope 3.2 requires Python 2.4, then so will > Zope 2.9. Wasn't there a "we don't slow down our development because of z2" in the past. Did this change? btw. does this mean we can't write tests with the new testbrowser package and improve the quality of z3? I don't like this restriction if z2 is the only reason for this. > I think we need to make a proposal for this first. +1 Regards Roger Ineichen > Jim > > -- > Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! > CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org > Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org > ___ > Zope3-dev mailing list > Zope3-dev@zope.org > Unsub: > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/dev%40projekt01.ch > > ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Stephan Richter wrote: ... Trunk check-in policy and development notes: - We are switching to time-based release cycle, which means that all checked in code must be beta quality, if it is to be considered to be in the release. Zope 3.2 wil be released in December, that means we will freeze the trunk mid-October for new features. - We need to become much better about fixing bugs. I think we should make Bug Days a regular event. - We are switching back to a proposal-based development cycle. This means that you must have an approved proposal online before the code can be checked into the trunk. You make some important points, Thanks! I'm hopeful that, by switching to a policy that code must be beta quality before it makes it to the trunk, we will not have so many bugs to fix after betas. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Stephan Richter wrote: ... Zope 3.2 wil be released in December, that means we will freeze the trunk mid-October for new features. Actually, we are going to freeze Nov 1. If we don't make a December release, then we'll need to move the freeze for 3.3 up. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Repository State
Stephan Richter wrote: ... We will also require Python 2.4 for Zope 3.2, so feel free to use new Python features such as decorators. How did we decide this? Shouldn't we follow a proposal-based policy for a change like this? Note that this also effects Zope 2. Starting with the next release, the Zope 2 and Zope 3 will be released together. Zope 2.9 will include Zope 3.2. If Zope 3.2 requires Python 2.4, then so will Zope 2.9. I think we need to make a proposal for this first. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
