Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Credence had its own sound man, I mean, you could take the band mates solos
and offshoots as similar, but really, there is no one else like them..
oh, wait, nevermind

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> For reference, who else is out there like CCR?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Joe Falaschi" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 12:37:51 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
> Two other things:
>
> You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we sell very
> little Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly.
> They all seem to have corporate policies and decisions.  The vast majority
> of our retail sales come in via the CCRs of the world.
>
> We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at least
> three of them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone attending events
> was either another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas.  We
> looked at who our best customers were and who was attending the events and
> the positions and companies were not matching up.  Generally the CFOs and
> IT directors are not going to the Chamber events.  A lot of small service
> businesses who wanted basic best effort internet service were attending.
> If you have the time and want to be a part of that community - it might pay
> off in the end but it wasn’t for us.
>
> Joe
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved,
> sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from
> the rest.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
> 
>
> I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation
> with a potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one
> management company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you
> wire the place do you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a
> term-deal?  I'm not sure, can you?
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
> I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other
> than offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100
> each, I'm fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate
> deals, that's real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals,
> they wouldn't have chased that. If they want to work all day for a
> $30/month account, that $3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much.
> Tying the compensation to the value of the sale should incentivize most
> toward the higher dollar accounts.
>
> I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting
> paid forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't
> an issue. Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the
> customer stops paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them
> properly, I'm no longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops
> working because he's collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a
> new sales guy. If someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything
> in their power to do it.
>
>
> Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so maybe I have the wrong approach.
>
>
>
> I have done regular LinkedIn posts and even shared those posts to the
> greater 

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Mike Hammett]

For reference, who else is out there like CCR? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Joe Falaschi"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:37:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

Two other things: 


You/someone should figure out your buyer personas. For us we sell very little 
Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly. They all seem 
to have corporate policies and decisions. The vast majority of our retail sales 
come in via the CCRs of the world. 


We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events. We left at least three of 
them in the area. It just seemed like everyone attending events was either 
another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas. We looked at who 
our best customers were and who was attending the events and the positions and 
companies were not matching up. Generally the CFOs and IT directors are not 
going to the Chamber events. A lot of small service businesses who wanted basic 
best effort internet service were attending. If you have the time and want to 
be a part of that community - it might pay off in the end but it wasn’t for us. 


Joe 








On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from the 
rest. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" < par...@cyberbroadband.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

 

I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation with a 
potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
company or one land owner you have to get through? Once you wire the place do 
you own your own infrastructure? ( no ) , can you get a term-deal? I'm not 
sure, can you? 



- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 


I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other than 
offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 each, I'm 
fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate deals, that's 
real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals, they wouldn't have 
chased that. If they want to work all day for a $30/month account, that 
$3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much. Tying the compensation to 
the value of the sale should incentivize most toward the higher dollar 
accounts. 

I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting paid 
forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't an issue. 
Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the customer stops 
paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them properly, I'm no 
longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops working because he's 
collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a new sales guy. If 
someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything in their power to do 
it. 


Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so maybe I have the wrong approach. 



I have done regular LinkedIn posts and even shared those posts to the greater 
Chicago area B2B and sales groups, but not a job position ad. I have a hard 
time swallowing paying $400 without the guarantee of getting someone good (or 
at all). 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:45:13 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 


First, I would focus on just business sales and raise the minimum package value 
sold by this person to a few hundred dollars. You don't want them wasting time 
with the consumer level stuff you already handle well. Small businesses wanting 
to pay $100 or less are making their own phone calls and expect to be treated 
more like regular consumers since that is what they really are. Next, make sure 
you put a limit on the revenue share. Tying it to a contract length or 18 
months are good. If you give them rev share forever eventually they don't need 
to work to earn a substantial paycheck and become unmotivated. At least that is 
how it ended up for us when we made the mistake. 
Most of these people want some kind of estimate of what they can earn so I 
would try to come up with that and put it in the ad. In addition, if you can 
pay a lower commission and add base pay some people are just not in a position 
to live commission only. I prefer it and I think 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I just want my hands on ticket stubs, or better yet, unused tickets. Can
you imagine how much those will be worth in 20 years

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 10:43 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Shutout Mike... What a pitch
>
> On Oct 28, 2016 5:51 PM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>
>> I may be biased, but I always have a good time when we go up to watch the
>> (SF) baseball Giants. Decent tickets are not too expensive, and it's a
>> great family outing. Plus the ballpark is beautiful with lots of great
>> views of San Francisco Bay.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/28/2016 4:18 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> I had tickets to take my son to a baseball game that got cancelled during
>> the MLB strike around 20 years ago.  Baseball has been dead to me ever
>> since.  (Not that it’s much of a spectator sport anyway, marginally better
>> than golf, a step less exciting than curling.)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *George Skorup
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 6:08 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>>
>>
>>
>> I know. I don't even care for baseball. I just like to piss off the
>> northsiders.
>>
>> On 10/28/2016 5:54 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> *YOU* suck.
>>
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"George Skorup"  
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 5:23:56 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>>
>> Cubs suck.
>>
>> On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.� Wish I
>> lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.�
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Lewis Bergman]

Bummer

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 10:43 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Shutout Mike... What a pitch
>
> On Oct 28, 2016 5:51 PM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>
> I may be biased, but I always have a good time when we go up to watch the
> (SF) baseball Giants. Decent tickets are not too expensive, and it's a
> great family outing. Plus the ballpark is beautiful with lots of great
> views of San Francisco Bay.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/28/2016 4:18 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I had tickets to take my son to a baseball game that got cancelled during
> the MLB strike around 20 years ago.  Baseball has been dead to me ever
> since.  (Not that it’s much of a spectator sport anyway, marginally better
> than golf, a step less exciting than curling.)
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 6:08 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>
>
>
> I know. I don't even care for baseball. I just like to piss off the
> northsiders.
>
> On 10/28/2016 5:54 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> *YOU* suck.
>
>
> ;-)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"George Skorup"  
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 5:23:56 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>
> Cubs suck.
>
> On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.� Wish I
> lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.�
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Jaime Solorza]

Shutout Mike... What a pitch

On Oct 28, 2016 5:51 PM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

> I may be biased, but I always have a good time when we go up to watch the
> (SF) baseball Giants. Decent tickets are not too expensive, and it's a
> great family outing. Plus the ballpark is beautiful with lots of great
> views of San Francisco Bay.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/28/2016 4:18 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I had tickets to take my son to a baseball game that got cancelled during
> the MLB strike around 20 years ago.  Baseball has been dead to me ever
> since.  (Not that it’s much of a spectator sport anyway, marginally better
> than golf, a step less exciting than curling.)
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 6:08 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>
>
>
> I know. I don't even care for baseball. I just like to piss off the
> northsiders.
>
> On 10/28/2016 5:54 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> *YOU* suck.
>
>
> ;-)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"George Skorup"  
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 5:23:56 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>
> Cubs suck.
>
> On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.� Wish I
> lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.�
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Adam Moffett]

I think the reality is somewhere in between what your boss and Joe are 
saying.  I'm sure it varies somewhat by state too.


As a /de minimus/ VoIP provider you don't have too many obligations.  
USF, Sales Tax, and some forms you file quarterly. You just keep the USF 
money if your contribution is less than $10,000 per year, but you still 
file the forms.


A key point is don't trust a vendor to keep you compliant with the law, 
get a lawyer for that.  Multiple VoIP wholesalers in the past told me it 
wasn't a big deal, no problem, lots of guys just like you are doing it 
this way, etc etc.  The vendor does not get in trouble for your lack of 
compliance, and they're not lawyers.


On the original question about hiring sales staff, I have no ideas.  It 
sounds like you want a marketing VP type of person rather than "sales".  
That will be a tough role to fill.



On 10/28/2016 8:58 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:


Would you mind elaborating on that in a manner I can relay verbatim to 
my boss. He doesn't think voice would be a big deal cause we are 
little, he doesn't understand why I dismiss anything he talks about 
when it comes to us doing any voice at all



On Oct 28, 2016 5:34 PM, "Joe Falaschi" > wrote:


The technical aspect of providing voice isn’t difficult.  The
regulatory aspect of voice is no joke though.  I wouldn’t do it
unless I thought I could do at least 30k/year in voice revenue, or
related Internet service deals lost because I didn’t offer it.

Joe




On Oct 28, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Mike Hammett > wrote:

It certainly makes sense. It isn't overly difficult to do, either.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From:*"Ken Hohhof" >
*To:*af@afmug.com 
*Sent:*Friday, October 28, 2016 12:57:13 PM
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

Joe, would you agree that you must have a killer hosted PBX
product in your portfolio if you’re going to target businesses?

I find many small businesses want phone and Internet bundled, in
fact saving money on phone service or replacing an outdated phone
system may actually be what convinces them to switch from the LEC
which is screwing them over with business pricing for everything
and crappy service.  Without a business phone solution, in many
cases I don’t think the Internet sale can be made. Unless you’re
looking to be the backup connection.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*Joe Falaschi
*Sent:*Friday, October 28, 2016 12:38 PM
*To:*af@afmug.com 
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

Two other things:

You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we
sell very little Internet Service to retail organizations -
especially directly.  They all seem to have corporate policies
and decisions.  The vast majority of our retail sales come in via
the CCRs of the world.

We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at
least three of them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone
attending events was either another sales person or not fitting
into our buyer personas.  We looked at who our best customers
were and who was attending the events and the positions and
companies were not matching up. Generally the CFOs and IT
directors are not going to the Chamber events. A lot of small
service businesses who wanted basic best effort internet service
were attending.  If you have the time and want to be a part of
that community - it might pay off in the end but it wasn’t for us.

Joe

On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett > wrote:

Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be
involved, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores
are owned separately from the rest.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Ken,

I bought that camera for $399 all summer during a special from
DWGDistributing.com Their retail price listed on the website is misleading,
if you setup an account with them you can expect to pay half what the
listed price on the website is. Also there was a guy on ebay selling those
cameras a while back too and I picked up several for under $400. The
bracket comes and is a arm welded to a flat surface than can be bolted
directly to a wall, I just drilled some holes in the flat surface and used
some stainless U-bolts I had left over from old Pac Wireless/Laird antennas
to bolt that to whatever.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:39 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Kurt, where are you finding that camera for $400 to $600?
>
>
>
> Also, anything special for mounting it to the tower?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 8:34 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras
>
>
>
> Paul,
>
>
>
> I have done this on 5 different towers this summer and it works great. The
> camera I am using a PTZ with 30x optical zoom Dahua brand model#
> DH-SD50A230IN-HC-S2 Its a Chinese camera but the housing is rugged and
> rated for IP67. You can pick them up for anywhere from $400-600 online.
> Here is a video I made from a 130' tower with this camera. In the video I
> am controlling the camera from 15 miles away sitting at my office.
>
>
>
> https://youtu.be/wl9gLF0nZ9o
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Jerry Head 
> wrote:
>
> We have hung about 6 of these for the local 911 guys...
> http://www.axis.com/ie/en/products/axis-p56-series
> They seem to work pretty well.
>
>
> On 10/27/2016 9:54 AM, Paul McCall wrote:
>
> We want to put a camera(s) at the top of a 400� tower.� Best way to
> get 360 degree coverage?
>
> �
>
> Paul
>
> �
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800�
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
> �
>
> �
>
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

[Craig Schmaderer]

Looks sweet.  I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.

Get Outlook for iOS

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Would you mind elaborating on that in a manner I can relay verbatim to my
boss. He doesn't think voice would be a big deal cause we are little, he
doesn't understand why I dismiss anything he talks about when it comes to
us doing any voice at all

On Oct 28, 2016 5:34 PM, "Joe Falaschi"  wrote:

> The technical aspect of providing voice isn’t difficult.  The regulatory
> aspect of voice is no joke though.  I wouldn’t do it unless I thought I
> could do at least 30k/year in voice revenue, or related Internet service
> deals lost because I didn’t offer it.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> It certainly makes sense. It isn't overly difficult to do, either.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 12:57:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
> Joe, would you agree that you must have a killer hosted PBX product in
> your portfolio if you’re going to target businesses?
>
>
> I find many small businesses want phone and Internet bundled, in fact
> saving money on phone service or replacing an outdated phone system may
> actually be what convinces them to switch from the LEC which is screwing
> them over with business pricing for everything and crappy service.  Without
> a business phone solution, in many cases I don’t think the Internet sale
> can be made.  Unless you’re looking to be the backup connection.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Joe Falaschi
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 12:38 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
>
> Two other things:
>
>
> You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we sell very
> little Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly.
> They all seem to have corporate policies and decisions.  The vast majority
> of our retail sales come in via the CCRs of the world.
>
>
> We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at least
> three of them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone attending events
> was either another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas.  We
> looked at who our best customers were and who was attending the events and
> the positions and companies were not matching up.  Generally the CFOs and
> IT directors are not going to the Chamber events.  A lot of small service
> businesses who wanted basic best effort internet service were attending.
> If you have the time and want to be a part of that community - it might pay
> off in the end but it wasn’t for us.
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>
>
> Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved,
> sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from
> the rest.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
> 
>
>
> I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation
> with a potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one
> management company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you
> wire the place do you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a
> term-deal?  I'm not sure, can you?
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
>
>
> I'm not in a position to offer a base pay 

Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras

[Ken Hohhof]

Kurt, where are you finding that camera for $400 to $600?

 

Also, anything special for mounting it to the tower?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 8:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras

 

Paul,

 

I have done this on 5 different towers this summer and it works great. The 
camera I am using a PTZ with 30x optical zoom Dahua brand model# 
DH-SD50A230IN-HC-S2 Its a Chinese camera but the housing is rugged and rated 
for IP67. You can pick them up for anywhere from $400-600 online. Here is a 
video I made from a 130' tower with this camera. In the video I am controlling 
the camera from 15 miles away sitting at my office. 

 

https://youtu.be/wl9gLF0nZ9o

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Jerry Head  > wrote:

We have hung about 6 of these for the local 911 guys...
http://www.axis.com/ie/en/products/axis-p56-series
They seem to work pretty well.


On 10/27/2016 9:54 AM, Paul McCall wrote:

We want to put a camera(s) at the top of a 400� tower.� Best way to get 360 
degree coverage?

�

Paul

�

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800� 

pa...@pdmnet.net  

www.pdmnet.com  

www.floridabroadband.com  

�

�

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Mike Hammett]

For those not in our area... {S welcome 


The receive beam forming wouldn't help (other than mitigating some of the 
interference), but it does have active out of channel filtering like the 
airPrism, so that should help as well. Not significantly, mind you, but some. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 3:02:36 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question 

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side. If you have a 
customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, they're 
still hosed right? The AP still wont' be able to hear them over the noise. 

I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is running 
about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7) I think the source 
of the interference is a close by corporate campus that's probably 
flooded with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the 
tower and the campus. I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side 
with a receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect in this 
scenario, right? 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Bill Prince]

I may be biased, but I always have a good time when we go up to watch 
the (SF) baseball Giants. Decent tickets are not too expensive, and it's 
a great family outing. Plus the ballpark is beautiful with lots of great 
views of San Francisco Bay.



bp


On 10/28/2016 4:18 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I had tickets to take my son to a baseball game that got cancelled 
during the MLB strike around 20 years ago. Baseball has been dead to 
me ever since.  (Not that it’s much of a spectator sport anyway, 
marginally better than golf, a step less exciting than curling.)


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

I know. I don't even care for baseball. I just like to piss off the 
northsiders.


On 10/28/2016 5:54 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

*YOU* suck.


;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"George Skorup"  
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 5:23:56 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

Cubs suck.

On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:

Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at
home.� Wish I lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go
to one of the games.�

Re: [AFMUG] google dns

[Paul Stewart]

Most IDS systems have logs that you could search through and find the look up … 
should give you a clue … is that what you’re asking?

> On Oct 28, 2016, at 7:28 PM, David Milholen  wrote:
> 
> Ok, 
> I have some happy IDS components  that seem to stopping google dns from 
> completing a lookup to our website.
> How can I find out what ips are being blocked from making the trip?
> I am not sure a traceroute is going to do it.  I dont have an issue getting 
> to google. 
>  google-dns is having an issue finding our dns.  
> 
> This is what I get with the commands I run
>  nslookup wletc.com 8.8.8.8
> Server: 8.8.8.8
> Address:8.8.8.8#53
> 
> ** server can't find wletc.com: SERVFAIL
> 
> When I disable the firewall rule that drops the bad IPs this is what I get.
>  nslookup wletc.com 8.8.8.8
> Server: 8.8.8.8
> Address:8.8.8.8#53
> 
> Non-authoritative answer:
> Name:   wletc.com
> Address: 162.212.24.50
> 
> What ip addresses are causing the lookup to fail??
> 
> -- 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Chuck McCown]

A bit boring on TV for sure.  But nice pace at the ballpark if you are there 
with friends.  Sit, visit, eat, watch a play now and then.  Better than fishing 
I think.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 5:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

I had tickets to take my son to a baseball game that got cancelled during the 
MLB strike around 20 years ago.  Baseball has been dead to me ever since.  (Not 
that it’s much of a spectator sport anyway, marginally better than golf, a step 
less exciting than curling.)

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 6:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

 

I know. I don't even care for baseball. I just like to piss off the northsiders.

On 10/28/2016 5:54 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

  *YOU* suck.


  ;-)



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "George Skorup" mailto:geo...@cbcast.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 5:23:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

  Cubs suck.

  On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.� Wish I 
lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.� 

   

   

 

[AFMUG] google dns

[David Milholen]

Ok,
I have some happy IDS components  that seem to stopping google dns from 
completing a lookup to our website.

How can I find out what ips are being blocked from making the trip?
I am not sure a traceroute is going to do it.  I dont have an issue 
getting to google.

 google-dns is having an issue finding our dns.

This is what I get with the commands I run
 nslookup wletc.com 8.8.8.8
Server: 8.8.8.8
Address:8.8.8.8#53

** server can't find wletc.com: SERVFAIL

When I disable the firewall rule that drops the bad IPs this is what I get.
 nslookup wletc.com 8.8.8.8
Server: 8.8.8.8
Address:8.8.8.8#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:   wletc.com
Address: 162.212.24.50

What ip addresses are causing the lookup to fail??

--

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Ken Hohhof]

I had tickets to take my son to a baseball game that got cancelled during the 
MLB strike around 20 years ago.  Baseball has been dead to me ever since.  (Not 
that it’s much of a spectator sport anyway, marginally better than golf, a step 
less exciting than curling.)

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 6:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

 

I know. I don't even care for baseball. I just like to piss off the northsiders.

On 10/28/2016 5:54 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

*YOU* suck.


;-)



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "George Skorup"   
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 5:23:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

Cubs suck.

On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.� Wish I lived 
close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.� 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[George Skorup]

I know. I don't even care for baseball. I just like to piss off the 
northsiders.


On 10/28/2016 5:54 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

*YOU* suck.


;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"George Skorup" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 5:23:56 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

Cubs suck.

On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.�
Wish I lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the
games.�

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Ken Hohhof]

The regulatory stuff is mainly just a pain in the butt, $30K/yr sounds high to 
justify filling out some forms and paying some fees.  But it’s one thing to 
provide residential voice, it’s another to provide a full featured business PBX 
service with a slick web interface and to support it with helpdesk, training, 
and (for a fee) remote management.  It’s amazing the features even the smallest 
businesses want to use, partly because even a 20 year old Toshiba phone system 
on the wall had all those features.  There are solutions out there you can buy, 
but you’re not going to just drop in a basic Asterisk/FreePBX box and convince 
most customers they are getting a “carrier class” service.

 

Also, I worry a lot about international calling.  That’s a real pain, parsing 
the CDRs and sending itemized bills, also providing customers the rate decks 
for per minute charges to each country.  But I’m not about to offer flat rate 
international calling to businesses.  Also I worry about toll fraud – walking 
in one morning and finding a $10K bill because of fraud or that the customer 
actually made but refuses to pay.  There are solutions for all of this, but not 
that you want to implement unless you’re up in the dollar volume Joe talks 
about.  Luckily my customers don’t seem to know anybody outside the US.  Maybe 
once a year I get someone who specifically wants to get VoIP because they spend 
hours every day making international calls, I don’t want those customers.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Falaschi
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 5:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

 

The technical aspect of providing voice isn’t difficult.  The regulatory aspect 
of voice is no joke though.  I wouldn’t do it unless I thought I could do at 
least 30k/year in voice revenue, or related Internet service deals lost because 
I didn’t offer it.

 

Joe

 

 

 

On Oct 28, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Mike Hammett  > wrote:

 

It certainly makes sense. It isn't overly difficult to do, either.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof" <  af...@kwisp.com>
To:   af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:57:13 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

Joe, would you agree that you must have a killer hosted PBX product in your 
portfolio if you’re going to target businesses?

 

I find many small businesses want phone and Internet bundled, in fact saving 
money on phone service or replacing an outdated phone system may actually be 
what convinces them to switch from the LEC which is screwing them over with 
business pricing for everything and crappy service.  Without a business phone 
solution, in many cases I don’t think the Internet sale can be made.  Unless 
you’re looking to be the backup connection.

 

 

From: Af [  mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Joe Falaschi
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:38 PM
To:   af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

 

Two other things:

 

You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we sell very little 
Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly.  They all seem 
to have corporate policies and decisions.  The vast majority of our retail 
sales come in via the CCRs of the world.

 

We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at least three of 
them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone attending events was either 
another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas.  We looked at who 
our best customers were and who was attending the events and the positions and 
companies were not matching up.  Generally the CFOs and IT directors are not 
going to the Chamber events.  A lot of small service businesses who wanted 
basic best effort internet service were attending.  If you have the time and 
want to be a part of that community - it might pay off in the end but it wasn’t 
for us.

 

Joe

 

 

On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett <  
af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

 

Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from the 
rest.



-
Mike Hammett
  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Mike Hammett]

Rooftops probably cost just as much. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 5:28:05 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs 




You are cool with a lawn chair on a nearby roof, right? 




From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 4:27 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs 


Send me those tickets first and we'll see what happens =) 





Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:25 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






Hmmm, tempting, first class airfare. 
Suite at the Peninsula Hotel... 





From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 4:21 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs 


I'll buy your airline tickets + hotel if you buy us tickets. 





Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 



On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:11 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






Yeah, don’t want spend another $500+ for airline tickets plus hotel. 




From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 4:08 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs 


Tickets are like a grand... 





Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:07 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home. Wish I lived 
close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Mike Hammett]

*YOU* suck. 


;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 5:23:56 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs 

Cubs suck. 


On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 





Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.� Wish I lived 
close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.� 

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Mike Hammett]

Maybe I don't think it's that bad because it's been added incrementally for me. 
I've been doing voice since 2003, so a year longer than my WISP. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Joe Falaschi"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 5:34:23 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

The technical aspect of providing voice isn’t difficult. The regulatory aspect 
of voice is no joke though. I wouldn’t do it unless I thought I could do at 
least 30k/year in voice revenue, or related Internet service deals lost because 
I didn’t offer it. 


Joe 









On Oct 28, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


It certainly makes sense. It isn't overly difficult to do, either. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:57:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 



Joe, would you agree that you must have a killer hosted PBX product in your 
portfolio if you’re going to target businesses? 

I find many small businesses want phone and Internet bundled, in fact saving 
money on phone service or replacing an outdated phone system may actually be 
what convinces them to switch from the LEC which is screwing them over with 
business pricing for everything and crappy service. Without a business phone 
solution, in many cases I don’t think the Internet sale can be made. Unless 
you’re looking to be the backup connection. 




From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Falaschi 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:38 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

Two other things: 



You/someone should figure out your buyer personas. For us we sell very little 
Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly. They all seem 
to have corporate policies and decisions. The vast majority of our retail sales 
come in via the CCRs of the world. 



We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events. We left at least three of 
them in the area. It just seemed like everyone attending events was either 
another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas. We looked at who 
our best customers were and who was attending the events and the positions and 
companies were not matching up. Generally the CFOs and IT directors are not 
going to the Chamber events. A lot of small service businesses who wanted basic 
best effort internet service were attending. If you have the time and want to 
be a part of that community - it might pay off in the end but it wasn’t for us. 



Joe 









On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 



Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from the 
rest. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" < par...@cyberbroadband.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

 



I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation with a 
potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
company or one land owner you have to get through? Once you wire the place do 
you own your own infrastructure? ( no ) , can you get a term-deal? I'm not 
sure, can you? 





- Original Message - 

From: Mike Hammett 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 



I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other than 
offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 each, I'm 
fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate deals, that's 
real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals, they wouldn't have 
chased that. If they want to work all day for a $30/month account, that 
$3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much. Tying the compensation to 
the value of the sale should incentivize most toward the higher dollar 
accounts. 

I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting paid 
forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't an issue. 
Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the customer stops 
paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them properly, I'm no 
longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops working because he's 
collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a new sales guy. If 
someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything in their power to do 
it. 


Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so 

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Joe Falaschi]

The technical aspect of providing voice isn’t difficult.  The regulatory aspect 
of voice is no joke though.  I wouldn’t do it unless I thought I could do at 
least 30k/year in voice revenue, or related Internet service deals lost because 
I didn’t offer it.

Joe



> On Oct 28, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> It certainly makes sense. It isn't overly difficult to do, either.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "Ken Hohhof" >
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:57:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
> 
> Joe, would you agree that you must have a killer hosted PBX product in your 
> portfolio if you’re going to target businesses?
>  
> I find many small businesses want phone and Internet bundled, in fact saving 
> money on phone service or replacing an outdated phone system may actually be 
> what convinces them to switch from the LEC which is screwing them over with 
> business pricing for everything and crappy service.  Without a business phone 
> solution, in many cases I don’t think the Internet sale can be made.  Unless 
> you’re looking to be the backup connection.
>  
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of Joe Falaschi
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:38 PM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>  
> Two other things:
>  
> You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we sell very 
> little Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly.  They 
> all seem to have corporate policies and decisions.  The vast majority of our 
> retail sales come in via the CCRs of the world.
>  
> We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at least three 
> of them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone attending events was 
> either another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas.  We 
> looked at who our best customers were and who was attending the events and 
> the positions and companies were not matching up.  Generally the CFOs and IT 
> directors are not going to the Chamber events.  A lot of small service 
> businesses who wanted basic best effort internet service were attending.  If 
> you have the time and want to be a part of that community - it might pay off 
> in the end but it wasn’t for us.
>  
> Joe
>  
>  
> On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett  > wrote:
>  
> Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
> sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from 
> the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  >
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
> 
> 
>  
> I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation with 
> a potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
> company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you wire the place 
> do you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a term-deal?  I'm 
> not sure, can you?
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: Mike Hammett 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>  
> I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other than 
> offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 each, 
> I'm fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Josh Luthman]

That ain't no Cubs tickets

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 28, 2016 6:28 PM,  wrote:

> You are cool with a lawn chair on a nearby roof, right?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 4:27 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>
> Send me those tickets first and we'll see what happens =)
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:25 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Hmmm, tempting, first class airfare.
>> Suite at the Peninsula Hotel...
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 4:21 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>>
>> I'll buy your airline tickets + hotel if you buy us tickets.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:11 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, don’t want spend another $500+ for airline tickets plus hotel.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 4:08 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>>>
>>> Tickets are like a grand...
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:07 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.  Wish I
 lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Ken Hohhof]

Pretty funny, WGN radio sent their 2 staff millennials who both live at home
with their parents out to Cleveland to cover the games.  They keep asking
“are the kids OK?”  Anyway, the kids report no price gouging in Cleveland,
and that many Cubs fans are flying to Cleveland to watch because they can’t
afford the tickets at home.  And supposedly no $250 cover charges at bars
and still $3.50 beers.  I think they were also reporting pizza good, hot
dogs not so much.  Oh, and Apple store much friendlier than the one in
Chicago.

 

http://wgnradio.com/author/violeta-podrumedic/

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 5:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

 

(relatively cheaply)� I think the news is reporting >$2k a ticket for
standing room.

Bars around Wrigleyville were charging $250/person cover when it wasn't even
a home game.� 

On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.� Wish I
lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.� 

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[chuck]

You are cool with a lawn chair on a nearby roof, right?

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 4:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

Send me those tickets first and we'll see what happens =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:25 PM,  wrote:

  Hmmm, tempting, first class airfare.  
  Suite at the Peninsula Hotel...


  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 4:21 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

  I'll buy your airline tickets + hotel if you buy us tickets.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:11 PM,  wrote:

Yeah, don’t want spend another $500+ for airline tickets plus hotel.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 4:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

Tickets are like a grand...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:07 PM,  wrote:

  Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.  Wish I 
lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Josh Luthman]

Send me those tickets first and we'll see what happens =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:25 PM,  wrote:

> Hmmm, tempting, first class airfare.
> Suite at the Peninsula Hotel...
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 4:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>
> I'll buy your airline tickets + hotel if you buy us tickets.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:11 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, don’t want spend another $500+ for airline tickets plus hotel.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 4:08 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>>
>> Tickets are like a grand...
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:07 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.  Wish I
>>> lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[chuck]

Hmmm, tempting, first class airfare.  
Suite at the Peninsula Hotel...


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 4:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

I'll buy your airline tickets + hotel if you buy us tickets.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:11 PM,  wrote:

  Yeah, don’t want spend another $500+ for airline tickets plus hotel.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 4:08 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

  Tickets are like a grand...


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:07 PM,  wrote:

Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.  Wish I lived 
close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Bill Prince]

i heard much higher. First game was around $3000, 2nd, 3rd and so on 
went up from there.


One hundred and eight years. Man o man.


bp


On 10/28/2016 3:08 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Tickets are like a grand...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:07 PM, > wrote:


Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home. 
Wish I lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the

games.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[George Skorup]

Cubs suck.

On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.  Wish I 
lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Josh Luthman]

I'll buy your airline tickets + hotel if you buy us tickets.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:11 PM,  wrote:

> Yeah, don’t want spend another $500+ for airline tickets plus hotel.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 4:08 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs
>
> Tickets are like a grand...
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:07 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.  Wish I
>> lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Joe Falaschi]

Having a voice solution definitely helps - it is the reason we started offering 
voice.  It helps us close more of the sub $200/mo best effort accounts.  With 
the larger DIA circuits, the companies generally have an internal IT 
department, not managed service provider, and the voice solution is generally 
already taken care of in our experience.

Joe


> On Oct 28, 2016, at 12:57 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> Joe, would you agree that you must have a killer hosted PBX product in your 
> portfolio if you’re going to target businesses?
>  
> I find many small businesses want phone and Internet bundled, in fact saving 
> money on phone service or replacing an outdated phone system may actually be 
> what convinces them to switch from the LEC which is screwing them over with 
> business pricing for everything and crappy service.  Without a business phone 
> solution, in many cases I don’t think the Internet sale can be made.  Unless 
> you’re looking to be the backup connection.
>  
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of Joe Falaschi
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:38 PM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>  
> Two other things:
>  
> You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we sell very 
> little Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly.  They 
> all seem to have corporate policies and decisions.  The vast majority of our 
> retail sales come in via the CCRs of the world.
>  
> We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at least three 
> of them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone attending events was 
> either another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas.  We 
> looked at who our best customers were and who was attending the events and 
> the positions and companies were not matching up.  Generally the CFOs and IT 
> directors are not going to the Chamber events.  A lot of small service 
> businesses who wanted basic best effort internet service were attending.  If 
> you have the time and want to be a part of that community - it might pay off 
> in the end but it wasn’t for us.
>  
> Joe
>  
>  
>> On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett > > wrote:
>>  
>> Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
>> sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from 
>> the rest.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>   
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>   
>>  
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" > >
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation with 
>> a potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
>> company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you wire the place 
>> do you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a term-deal?  I'm 
>> not sure, can you?
>>  
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: Mike Hammett 
>>> To: af@afmug.com 
>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>>>  
>>> I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other than 
>>> offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 each, 
>>> I'm fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate deals, 
>>> that's real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals, they 
>>> wouldn't have chased that. If they want to work all day for a $30/month 
>>> account, that $3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much. Tying the 
>>> compensation to the value of the sale should incentivize most toward the 
>>> higher dollar accounts.
>>> 
>>> I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting 
>>> paid forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't 
>>> an issue. Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the 
>>> customer stops paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them 
>>> properly, I'm no longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops 
>>> working because he's 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[chuck]

Yeah, don’t want spend another $500+ for airline tickets plus hotel.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 4:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

Tickets are like a grand...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:07 PM,  wrote:

  Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.  Wish I lived 
close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Nate Burke]

(relatively cheaply)  I think the news is reporting >$2k a ticket for 
standing room.


Bars around Wrigleyville were charging $250/person cover when it wasn't 
even a home game.


On 10/28/2016 5:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.  Wish I 
lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Cubs

[Josh Luthman]

Tickets are like a grand...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:07 PM,  wrote:

> Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.  Wish I
> lived close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.
>

[AFMUG] OT Cubs

[chuck]

Pretty cool if they can sweep the next three and win at home.  Wish I lived 
close enough to (relatively cheaply) go to one of the games.  

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[chuck]

While I totally agree that Qwest and Comcast were never going to ride Utopia, I 
debated Pete Ashdown on KUER about this very issue.  He was constantly claiming 
that if you build it they will come.  

He tried to liken Utopia to the airports.  We only need one and if everyone 
uses it then it pays for itself.  

Of course airports receive huge amounts of federal money.  Most do not stand on 
their own.  

From: Roger Timmerman 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 3:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

A couple of comments below from my perspective... 

-Roger


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:17 PM,  wrote:

  Chuck wrote:
  > They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network.
What alternate reality do these people live in?


That was never likely to happen because they are local infrastructure 
incumbents, although we did have AT for a while, and now have Windstream, so 
it is possible to attract national players if it is built as a carrier-class 
network with good SLAs and they don't have a strong infrastructure presence in 
the area that it would compete with.  AT is non-existent and Windstream has a 
very limited presence in Utah so it doesn't threaten themselves in any way to 
ride UTOPIA.



  > I personally am philosophically opposed to governments providing goods or
  > services that private companies can do.  Obviously streets are better done
  > by government.  Arguably water and sewer.  I have lived in cities with two
  > power companies.  But all the rest should be done by commercial providers.
Why do you draw the line at the utilities and the infrastructure you 
listed? What makes them so special?


A lot of philosophical differences here.  Every day fiber infrastructure looks 
more and more like water, sewer, power, roads, and other government provided 
services.  I believe we will see far more government involvement in providing 
fiber infrastructure in the future because private companies are actually , but 
I understand why those who stand to lose the most would disagree.


  > More importantly government should never compete with businesses.
  > They have many unfair advantages.
What unfair advantages do you feel they have?

Government businesses have to pay off debt, make payments in lieu of taxes 
and absorb losses like everybody else.


Government agencies benefit from tax exemption, bonding ability, and 
taxing/assessment authority unlink private companies.  I can see why people 
feel like government has unfair advantages.  However, at least in the example 
of UTOPIA, you can argue that because it is wholesale-only, it doesn't actually 
compete with anyone because the system is made available to any private company 
and doesn't provide services directly to the end-users.


  Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Roger Timmerman]

As far as the first bond, the cities are covering it for now.  We could be
contributing some of our net revenue to decrease the burden, but because
the system is only completely built in all of the cities, we are investing
that money towards the completion of the project.  When the project is
completed, then there will likely be some relief of that bond form our
revenues.

Roger

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:08 PM,  wrote:

> Thank you Roger for that detailed write up.
>
> What happened to the first phase bond?
>
> Jared
>
>
>
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 at 8:37 PM
> From: "Roger Timmerman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber
>
> Most of what Chuck says is true about the first phase of UTOPIA.  It was a
> disaster.  Some of it was their fault, some of it wasn't.
>
> For example, AT was actually the first service provider on UTOPIA and
> had an initial exclusivity period.  One day the higher-ups at AT decided
> to abandon that part of the business without telling anyone.  AT's
> services on UTOPIA went dark and no one was there to answer the phones.
> Took a while to recover from that one.
>
> The next provider to go belly-up was Mstar which was a whole other
> financial disaster for UTOPIA.
>
> RUS loans that were approved and then later withdrawn caused UTOPIA to
> invest heavily in rural areas rather than build in more strategic areas.
> This was the topic of a lawsuit between UTOPIA and RUS for which there was
> a recent $11M settlement after several years of fighting.
>
> A lawsuit from Qwest tied up construction for a while and cost a fortune
> to fight but eventually resulted in a settlement, was still a huge blow to
> the project.
>
> Bad management, bad state legislators, bad contractors, you name it.
> UTOPIA has had tough times.
>
> However, there was a restructuring about 8 years ago when I first came on
> board.  The management company was given the boot and we parted ways with
> bad contractors and partners. We in-housed our operations, NOC,
> technicians, network engineering, etc and recruited better service provider
> partners.  Costs dramatically decreased, reliability increased, and the
> project gained some stability even though it was still costing a lot of
> money keep the lights on.  We used what money we had after a debt refinance
> of the original bond to finish Tremonton City, and we partnered with
> Brigham City to build their city with them doing their own bond.  The
> revenues covered all of Brigham City's new debt payments and the new
> revenue decreased the bleeding for UTOPIA.
>
> We knew that if we could replicate the success of Tremonton and Brigham
> City we would not only build out more network, but also would further
> alleviate the bleeding and maybe even break even.  9 of the original 11
> UTOPIA cities agreed to take down new debt to do this. One dropped out when
> it came time to bond so only 8 proceeded with the bond.  Because it had
> different city membership, we had to create a new agency that acts only as
> a financing arm for furthering the project, with the same purpose of
> UTOPIA, but without investing in the cities that didn't financially support
> the new growth.  UTOPIA and UIA (the 8 city project) have taken down three
> additional incremental bonds for building out the system.  Now we cover a
> much larger area and are covering all of costs and generating positive net
> revenues. All of the debt service is also being paid for by UTOPIA and UIA
> except for the first phase bond.  Rather than spend the net revenues on
> partially addressing the original bond, we are investing in finishing out
> the project.
>
> We are currently building out at our fastest pace with a model that is
> financially sustainable and actually profitable.  Our service provider
> partners are stable, growing, competitive, and well liked.  If bonding
> weren't so politically unpopular, you would see us or other similar
> projects everywhere.  However, bond is a four-letter word these days and it
> is still an uphill battle to do these types of projects despite how well
> they do.
>
> Roger
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 10:46 AM, 
> wrote:It is all armchair quarterbacking at this point.
>
> It went wrong at its inception.
> A guy named Arthur Brady with Telecom Choices played the part of Harold
> Hill in the Music Man.
> He got paid for the band instruments and blew out of town.
>
> So, the cities were sold a bill of goods in my opinion.  But the largest
> city was smart enough not to put its foot in the trap. Salt Lake City.
>
> Then they had issues with contractors and quality of work.
> They overpaid.  They borrowed too much etc etc.
> They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network.
>
> There was a point in time that Wireless Beehive was installing at a weekly
> rate greater than UTOPIA and almost had as many customers.  We were in the
> hole perhaps $2-4M 

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Roger Timmerman]

A couple of comments below from my perspective...

-Roger

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:17 PM,  wrote:

> Chuck wrote:
> > They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network.
>   What alternate reality do these people live in?
>

*That was never likely to happen because they are local infrastructure
incumbents, although we did have AT for a while, and now have Windstream,
so it is possible to attract national players if it is built as a
carrier-class network with good SLAs and they don't have a strong
infrastructure presence in the area that it would compete with.  AT is
non-existent and Windstream has a very limited presence in Utah so it
doesn't threaten themselves in any way to ride UTOPIA.*


>
> > I personally am philosophically opposed to governments providing goods or
> > services that private companies can do.  Obviously streets are better
> done
> > by government.  Arguably water and sewer.  I have lived in cities with
> two
> > power companies.  But all the rest should be done by commercial
> providers.
>   Why do you draw the line at the utilities and the infrastructure you
> listed? What makes them so special?
>
> *A lot of philosophical differences here.  Every day fiber infrastructure
looks more and more like water, sewer, power, roads, and other government
provided services.  I believe we will see far more government involvement
in providing fiber infrastructure in the future because private companies
are actually , but I understand why those who stand to lose the most would
disagree.*


>
> > More importantly government should never compete with businesses.
> > They have many unfair advantages.
>   What unfair advantages do you feel they have?
>
>   Government businesses have to pay off debt, make payments in lieu of
> taxes and absorb losses like everybody else.
>

*Government agencies benefit from tax exemption, bonding ability, and
taxing/assessment authority unlink private companies.  I can see why people
feel like government has unfair advantages.  However, at least in the
example of UTOPIA, you can argue that because it is wholesale-only, it
doesn't actually compete with anyone because the system is made available
to any private company and doesn't provide services directly to the
end-users.*


>
> Jared
>

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Bill Prince]

Excellent point. If you have a big sector, you won't be able to 
distinguish where the noise is coming from. If you have beam steering, 
you may be able to block out different frequencies in different directions.


The real trick would be the ability to use frequency A in sub-sector A, 
and frequency B in sub-sector B, and so on.



bp


On 10/28/2016 2:06 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yeah, true... it certainly wouldn't hurt. Also, if all of the noise 
isn't actually coming from the same location, you could potentially 
find a clean channel using beam steering.


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 4:02 PM, George Skorup > wrote:


BUT... the filter in the ePMP2000 may help you find a clean enough
slice of spectrum to make the customer work.

On 10/28/2016 3:59 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

Ok, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some sort of RF
Magic contained within the EPMP2000.

On 10/28/2016 3:42 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Yep... if the interference wasn't in the same direction as the
customer, beam steering would help you, but I don't see that
it'd do much in this case.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>
wrote:

a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the
interference is coming in from the same direction as the sm,
not alot you can do. with -50 floor that sector is
effectively not there. can you go lower with the sector and
hope ground clutter will mitigate the campus interference to
a point you can get a reasonable snr. compared to what you
have right now hin dropping to a -70 if you can get clutter
to -80 is better,
but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight
shielded directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp

beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than
anything isnt it?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince
> wrote:

If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should
affect the downstream traffic. Interference on the AP
side (which you don't seem to be having) would affect he
upstream.

Something else is going on.


bp



On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream
side.  If you have a customer that is in line with
the source of the Interference, they're still hosed
right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them over
the noise.

I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it
and the AP is running about -50 noise across the
entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think the source of the
interference is a close by corporate campus that's
probably flooded with 5ghz wifi, and this customer
is directly in between the tower and the campus.  I
can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side with a
receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect
in this scenario, right?





-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but

you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already
failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, true... it certainly wouldn't hurt. Also, if all of the noise isn't
actually coming from the same location, you could potentially find a clean
channel using beam steering.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 4:02 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> BUT... the filter in the ePMP2000 may help you find a clean enough slice
> of spectrum to make the customer work.
>
> On 10/28/2016 3:59 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> Ok, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some sort of RF Magic
> contained within the EPMP2000.
>
> On 10/28/2016 3:42 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Yep... if the interference wasn't in the same direction as the customer,
> beam steering would help you, but I don't see that it'd do much in this
> case.
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the interference is
>> coming in from the same direction as the sm, not alot you can do. with -50
>> floor that sector is effectively not there. can you go lower with the
>> sector and hope ground clutter will mitigate the campus interference to a
>> point you can get a reasonable snr. compared to what you have right now hin
>> dropping to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 is better,
>> but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight shielded
>> directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp
>>
>> beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than anything isnt
>> it?
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect the
>>> downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you don't seem to be
>>> having) would affect he upstream.
>>>
>>> Something else is going on.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>>
 So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If you have a
 customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, they're still
 hosed right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them over the noise.

 I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is running
 about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think the source of
 the interference is a close by corporate campus that's probably flooded
 with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the tower and the
 campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side with a receive
 level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect in this scenario, right?

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[George Skorup]

BUT... the filter in the ePMP2000 may help you find a clean enough slice 
of spectrum to make the customer work.


On 10/28/2016 3:59 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
Ok, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some sort of RF Magic 
contained within the EPMP2000.


On 10/28/2016 3:42 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yep... if the interference wasn't in the same direction as the 
customer, beam steering would help you, but I don't see that it'd do 
much in this case.


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:


a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the
interference is coming in from the same direction as the sm, not
alot you can do. with -50 floor that sector is effectively not
there. can you go lower with the sector and hope ground clutter
will mitigate the campus interference to a point you can get a
reasonable snr. compared to what you have right now hin dropping
to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 is better,
but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight
shielded directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp

beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than
anything isnt it?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince
 wrote:

If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should
affect the downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side
(which you don't seem to be having) would affect he upstream.

Something else is going on.


bp



On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side. 
If you have a customer that is in line with the source of

the Interference, they're still hosed right? The AP still
wont' be able to hear them over the noise.

I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the
AP is running about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1
and 5.7)  I think the source of the interference is a
close by corporate campus that's probably flooded with
5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the
tower and the campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the
upstream side with a receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would
have no effect in this scenario, right?





-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Nate Burke]

Ok, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some sort of RF Magic 
contained within the EPMP2000.


On 10/28/2016 3:42 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yep... if the interference wasn't in the same direction as the 
customer, beam steering would help you, but I don't see that it'd do 
much in this case.


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
> wrote:


a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the
interference is coming in from the same direction as the sm, not
alot you can do. with -50 floor that sector is effectively not
there. can you go lower with the sector and hope ground clutter
will mitigate the campus interference to a point you can get a
reasonable snr. compared to what you have right now hin dropping
to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 is better,
but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight
shielded directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp

beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than
anything isnt it?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince > wrote:

If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect
the downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you
don't seem to be having) would affect he upstream.

Something else is going on.


bp



On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side. 
If you have a customer that is in line with the source of

the Interference, they're still hosed right? The AP still
wont' be able to hear them over the noise.

I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the
AP is running about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1
and 5.7)  I think the source of the interference is a
close by corporate campus that's probably flooded with
5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the
tower and the campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the
upstream side with a receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would
have no effect in this scenario, right?





-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Mathew Howard]

Yep... if the interference wasn't in the same direction as the customer,
beam steering would help you, but I don't see that it'd do much in this
case.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the interference is
> coming in from the same direction as the sm, not alot you can do. with -50
> floor that sector is effectively not there. can you go lower with the
> sector and hope ground clutter will mitigate the campus interference to a
> point you can get a reasonable snr. compared to what you have right now hin
> dropping to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 is better,
> but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight shielded
> directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp
>
> beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than anything isnt
> it?
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect the
>> downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you don't seem to be
>> having) would affect he upstream.
>>
>> Something else is going on.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>
>>> So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If you have a
>>> customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, they're still
>>> hosed right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them over the noise.
>>>
>>> I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is running
>>> about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think the source of
>>> the interference is a close by corporate campus that's probably flooded
>>> with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the tower and the
>>> campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side with a receive
>>> level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect in this scenario, right?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[chuck]

From: fiber...@mail.com

by government.  Arguably water and sewer.  I have lived in cities with two
power companies.  But all the rest should be done by commercial providers.
 Why do you draw the line at the utilities and the infrastructure you 
listed? What makes them so special?


Duplication of public utilities is typically not in the public's interest. 
Duplicate sewer systems would not give a better value to anyone.  Ditto 
water.  Power lines use up lots of public utility easements and are best 
left to one company serving for that reason.  There is only so much room for 
streets.


The same philosophy used to apply to airlines, truck lines, railroads, still 
applies to taxi companies in some areas but most of those have been 
deregulated and open to competition.


Same thing happened to telecom.  It was deregulated to encourage competition 
and choice of providers.  Allowing government entities to re-enter that 
market is a reversal of policy as public utilities are considered quazi 
public entities.  Do they want monopolies or do they want competition...  If 
they want a free market, they should stay out of it.




More importantly government should never compete with businesses.
They have many unfair advantages.

 What unfair advantages do you feel they have?

They do not pay taxes.  Property, personal property, income, corporate, 
excise etc etc.

(Ask Bountiful city how much property tax they pay on the fiber system. )
They do not pay ROW access fees or impact fees.
They have the power to tax to finance competition.
They have the power to limit access to competitors.
They have the power to grant permits without delay and without burden.
They have the ability to market to all residents without additional burden.
They have the color of government approval on their activities.
They can force all to participate in funding a business that by its very 
nature can hurt other businesses and even force them out of business.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Bill Prince]

Whoops. Missed that important detail. A -50 dBm noise floor is pretty 
much a impossible situation.



bp


On 10/28/2016 1:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the interference 
is coming in from the same direction as the sm, not alot you can do. 
with -50 floor that sector is effectively not there. can you go lower 
with the sector and hope ground clutter will mitigate the campus 
interference to a point you can get a reasonable snr. compared to what 
you have right now hin dropping to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 
is better,
but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight shielded 
directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp


beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than anything 
isnt it?


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince > wrote:


If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect the
downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you don't
seem to be having) would affect he upstream.

Something else is going on.


bp



On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If
you have a customer that is in line with the source of the
Interference, they're still hosed right?  The AP still wont'
be able to hear them over the noise.

I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP
is running about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and
5.7)  I think the source of the interference is a close by
corporate campus that's probably flooded with 5ghz wifi, and
this customer is directly in between the tower and the
campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side with
a receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect in this
scenario, right?





--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the interference is
coming in from the same direction as the sm, not alot you can do. with -50
floor that sector is effectively not there. can you go lower with the
sector and hope ground clutter will mitigate the campus interference to a
point you can get a reasonable snr. compared to what you have right now hin
dropping to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 is better,
but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight shielded
directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp

beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than anything isnt
it?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect the
> downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you don't seem to be
> having) would affect he upstream.
>
> Something else is going on.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
>> So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If you have a
>> customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, they're still
>> hosed right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them over the noise.
>>
>> I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is running
>> about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think the source of
>> the interference is a close by corporate campus that's probably flooded
>> with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the tower and the
>> campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side with a receive
>> level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect in this scenario, right?
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[fiberrun]

Chuck wrote:
> They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network.
  What alternate reality do these people live in?


> I personally am philosophically opposed to governments providing goods or 
> services that private companies can do.  Obviously streets are better done 
> by government.  Arguably water and sewer.  I have lived in cities with two 
> power companies.  But all the rest should be done by commercial providers.
  Why do you draw the line at the utilities and the infrastructure you listed? 
What makes them so special?


> More importantly government should never compete with businesses.
> They have many unfair advantages.
  What unfair advantages do you feel they have?

  Government businesses have to pay off debt, make payments in lieu of taxes 
and absorb losses like everybody else. 

Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[chuck]

I was wondering the same thing.  I am guessing the cities are eating it.

-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 2:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Thank you Roger for that detailed write up.

What happened to the first phase bond?

Jared



Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 at 8:37 PM
From: "Roger Timmerman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Most of what Chuck says is true about the first phase of UTOPIA.  It was a 
disaster.  Some of it was their fault, some of it wasn't.


For example, AT was actually the first service provider on UTOPIA and had 
an initial exclusivity period.  One day the higher-ups at AT decided to 
abandon that part of the business without telling anyone.  AT's services 
on UTOPIA went dark and no one was there to answer the phones.  Took a while 
to recover from that one.


The next provider to go belly-up was Mstar which was a whole other financial 
disaster for UTOPIA.


RUS loans that were approved and then later withdrawn caused UTOPIA to 
invest heavily in rural areas rather than build in more strategic areas. 
This was the topic of a lawsuit between UTOPIA and RUS for which there was a 
recent $11M settlement after several years of fighting.


A lawsuit from Qwest tied up construction for a while and cost a fortune to 
fight but eventually resulted in a settlement, was still a huge blow to the 
project.


Bad management, bad state legislators, bad contractors, you name it.  UTOPIA 
has had tough times.


However, there was a restructuring about 8 years ago when I first came on 
board.  The management company was given the boot and we parted ways with 
bad contractors and partners. We in-housed our operations, NOC, technicians, 
network engineering, etc and recruited better service provider partners. 
Costs dramatically decreased, reliability increased, and the project gained 
some stability even though it was still costing a lot of money keep the 
lights on.  We used what money we had after a debt refinance of the original 
bond to finish Tremonton City, and we partnered with Brigham City to build 
their city with them doing their own bond.  The revenues covered all of 
Brigham City's new debt payments and the new revenue decreased the bleeding 
for UTOPIA.


We knew that if we could replicate the success of Tremonton and Brigham City 
we would not only build out more network, but also would further alleviate 
the bleeding and maybe even break even.  9 of the original 11 UTOPIA cities 
agreed to take down new debt to do this. One dropped out when it came time 
to bond so only 8 proceeded with the bond.  Because it had different city 
membership, we had to create a new agency that acts only as a financing arm 
for furthering the project, with the same purpose of UTOPIA, but without 
investing in the cities that didn't financially support the new growth. 
UTOPIA and UIA (the 8 city project) have taken down three additional 
incremental bonds for building out the system.  Now we cover a much larger 
area and are covering all of costs and generating positive net revenues. All 
of the debt service is also being paid for by UTOPIA and UIA except for the 
first phase bond.  Rather than spend the net revenues on partially 
addressing the original bond, we are investing in finishing out the project.


We are currently building out at our fastest pace with a model that is 
financially sustainable and actually profitable.  Our service provider 
partners are stable, growing, competitive, and well liked.  If bonding 
weren't so politically unpopular, you would see us or other similar projects 
everywhere.  However, bond is a four-letter word these days and it is still 
an uphill battle to do these types of projects despite how well they do.


Roger



On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 10:46 AM,  
wrote:It is all armchair quarterbacking at this point.


It went wrong at its inception.
A guy named Arthur Brady with Telecom Choices played the part of Harold Hill 
in the Music Man.

He got paid for the band instruments and blew out of town.

So, the cities were sold a bill of goods in my opinion.  But the largest 
city was smart enough not to put its foot in the trap. Salt Lake City.


Then they had issues with contractors and quality of work.
They overpaid.  They borrowed too much etc etc.
They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network.

There was a point in time that Wireless Beehive was installing at a weekly 
rate greater than UTOPIA and almost had as many customers.  We were in the 
hole perhaps $2-4M and they were in the hole more than $100M.  I think it 
was more like $216M.  All backed by bonds that were tied to sales tax 
revenue.


Originally they needed 120,000 customers they said to be viable.  That was a 
1/3rd take rate.
I am guessing they don't even have 25K at this point but that is just a 
guess based on nothing.

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Bill Prince]

The cities don't actually eat it. They absorb it, and the citizens eat 
it (one way or the other).


   TANSTAFL

bp


On 10/28/2016 1:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I was wondering the same thing.  I am guessing the cities are eating it.

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 2:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Thank you Roger for that detailed write up.

What happened to the first phase bond?

Jared



Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 at 8:37 PM
From: "Roger Timmerman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Most of what Chuck says is true about the first phase of UTOPIA. It 
was a disaster.  Some of it was their fault, some of it wasn't.


For example, AT was actually the first service provider on UTOPIA 
and had an initial exclusivity period.  One day the higher-ups at AT 
decided to abandon that part of the business without telling anyone.  
AT's services on UTOPIA went dark and no one was there to answer the 
phones.  Took a while to recover from that one.


The next provider to go belly-up was Mstar which was a whole other 
financial disaster for UTOPIA.


RUS loans that were approved and then later withdrawn caused UTOPIA to 
invest heavily in rural areas rather than build in more strategic 
areas. This was the topic of a lawsuit between UTOPIA and RUS for 
which there was a recent $11M settlement after several years of fighting.


A lawsuit from Qwest tied up construction for a while and cost a 
fortune to fight but eventually resulted in a settlement, was still a 
huge blow to the project.


Bad management, bad state legislators, bad contractors, you name it.  
UTOPIA has had tough times.


However, there was a restructuring about 8 years ago when I first came 
on board.  The management company was given the boot and we parted 
ways with bad contractors and partners. We in-housed our operations, 
NOC, technicians, network engineering, etc and recruited better 
service provider partners. Costs dramatically decreased, reliability 
increased, and the project gained some stability even though it was 
still costing a lot of money keep the lights on.  We used what money 
we had after a debt refinance of the original bond to finish Tremonton 
City, and we partnered with Brigham City to build their city with them 
doing their own bond. The revenues covered all of Brigham City's new 
debt payments and the new revenue decreased the bleeding for UTOPIA.


We knew that if we could replicate the success of Tremonton and 
Brigham City we would not only build out more network, but also would 
further alleviate the bleeding and maybe even break even.  9 of the 
original 11 UTOPIA cities agreed to take down new debt to do this. One 
dropped out when it came time to bond so only 8 proceeded with the 
bond.  Because it had different city membership, we had to create a 
new agency that acts only as a financing arm for furthering the 
project, with the same purpose of UTOPIA, but without investing in the 
cities that didn't financially support the new growth. UTOPIA and UIA 
(the 8 city project) have taken down three additional incremental 
bonds for building out the system.  Now we cover a much larger area 
and are covering all of costs and generating positive net revenues. 
All of the debt service is also being paid for by UTOPIA and UIA 
except for the first phase bond.  Rather than spend the net revenues 
on partially addressing the original bond, we are investing in 
finishing out the project.


We are currently building out at our fastest pace with a model that is 
financially sustainable and actually profitable.  Our service provider 
partners are stable, growing, competitive, and well liked.  If bonding 
weren't so politically unpopular, you would see us or other similar 
projects everywhere.  However, bond is a four-letter word these days 
and it is still an uphill battle to do these types of projects despite 
how well they do.


Roger



On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 10:46 AM, 
 wrote:It is all armchair 
quarterbacking at this point.


It went wrong at its inception.
A guy named Arthur Brady with Telecom Choices played the part of 
Harold Hill in the Music Man.

He got paid for the band instruments and blew out of town.

So, the cities were sold a bill of goods in my opinion.  But the 
largest city was smart enough not to put its foot in the trap. Salt 
Lake City.


Then they had issues with contractors and quality of work.
They overpaid.  They borrowed too much etc etc.
They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network.

There was a point in time that Wireless Beehive was installing at a 
weekly rate greater than UTOPIA and almost had as many customers.  We 
were in the hole perhaps $2-4M and they were in the hole more than 
$100M.  I think it was more like $216M.  All backed by bonds that were 
tied to sales tax revenue.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Bill Prince]

If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect the 
downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you don't seem to 
be having) would affect he upstream.


Something else is going on.


bp


On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If you have 
a customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, 
they're still hosed right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them 
over the noise.


I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is 
running about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think 
the source of the interference is a close by corporate campus that's 
probably flooded with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in 
between the tower and the campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the 
upstream side with a receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no 
effect in this scenario, right?

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[fiberrun]

Thank you Roger for that detailed write up. 

What happened to the first phase bond?

Jared
 
 

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 at 8:37 PM
From: "Roger Timmerman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Most of what Chuck says is true about the first phase of UTOPIA.  It was a 
disaster.  Some of it was their fault, some of it wasn't.
 
For example, AT was actually the first service provider on UTOPIA and had an 
initial exclusivity period.  One day the higher-ups at AT decided to abandon 
that part of the business without telling anyone.  AT's services on UTOPIA 
went dark and no one was there to answer the phones.  Took a while to recover 
from that one.  
 
The next provider to go belly-up was Mstar which was a whole other financial 
disaster for UTOPIA.  
 
RUS loans that were approved and then later withdrawn caused UTOPIA to invest 
heavily in rural areas rather than build in more strategic areas.  This was the 
topic of a lawsuit between UTOPIA and RUS for which there was a recent $11M 
settlement after several years of fighting.
 
A lawsuit from Qwest tied up construction for a while and cost a fortune to 
fight but eventually resulted in a settlement, was still a huge blow to the 
project.
 
Bad management, bad state legislators, bad contractors, you name it.  UTOPIA 
has had tough times.
 
However, there was a restructuring about 8 years ago when I first came on 
board.  The management company was given the boot and we parted ways with bad 
contractors and partners. We in-housed our operations, NOC, technicians, 
network engineering, etc and recruited better service provider partners.  Costs 
dramatically decreased, reliability increased, and the project gained some 
stability even though it was still costing a lot of money keep the lights on.  
We used what money we had after a debt refinance of the original bond to finish 
Tremonton City, and we partnered with Brigham City to build their city with 
them doing their own bond.  The revenues covered all of Brigham City's new debt 
payments and the new revenue decreased the bleeding for UTOPIA.
 
We knew that if we could replicate the success of Tremonton and Brigham City we 
would not only build out more network, but also would further alleviate the 
bleeding and maybe even break even.  9 of the original 11 UTOPIA cities agreed 
to take down new debt to do this. One dropped out when it came time to bond so 
only 8 proceeded with the bond.  Because it had different city membership, we 
had to create a new agency that acts only as a financing arm for furthering the 
project, with the same purpose of UTOPIA, but without investing in the cities 
that didn't financially support the new growth.  UTOPIA and UIA (the 8 city 
project) have taken down three additional incremental bonds for building out 
the system.  Now we cover a much larger area and are covering all of costs and 
generating positive net revenues. All of the debt service is also being paid 
for by UTOPIA and UIA except for the first phase bond.  Rather than spend the 
net revenues on partially addressing the original bond, we are investing in 
finishing out the project.
 
We are currently building out at our fastest pace with a model that is 
financially sustainable and actually profitable.  Our service provider partners 
are stable, growing, competitive, and well liked.  If bonding weren't so 
politically unpopular, you would see us or other similar projects everywhere.  
However, bond is a four-letter word these days and it is still an uphill battle 
to do these types of projects despite how well they do.
 
Roger
 
 
 
On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 10:46 AM,  
wrote:It is all armchair quarterbacking at this point.

It went wrong at its inception.
A guy named Arthur Brady with Telecom Choices played the part of Harold Hill in 
the Music Man.
He got paid for the band instruments and blew out of town.

So, the cities were sold a bill of goods in my opinion.  But the largest city 
was smart enough not to put its foot in the trap. Salt Lake City.

Then they had issues with contractors and quality of work.
They overpaid.  They borrowed too much etc etc.
They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network.

There was a point in time that Wireless Beehive was installing at a weekly rate 
greater than UTOPIA and almost had as many customers.  We were in the hole 
perhaps $2-4M and they were in the hole more than $100M.  I think it was more 
like $216M.  All backed by bonds that were tied to sales tax revenue.

Originally they needed 120,000 customers they said to be viable.  That was a 
1/3rd take rate.
I am guessing they don't even have 25K at this point but that is just a guess 
based on nothing.

So the debt service was more than they could ever cover it appeared at one 
time.  I fully expected bankruptcy.  Then they attempted to do a deal with an 
Australian company that would have forced personal debt on 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

bbdne has gel and crummy coated shield, bbdge has copper clad and paste,
the paste doesnt run, bbdne killed alot of power supplies on our network,
turns out running cable designed to be horizontally in a vertical run is bad

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Lol I think that's the cable with issues...
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Oct 28, 2016 3:55 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> bbdge - no more headaches
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:23 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Rev C are currently in production with Rev D within a month.
>>> Rev C has the improved RF interference bypass and the POE sync glitch
>>> absorber.
>>>
>>> The Rev D is a mechanical change only.  100% surface mount.
>>>
>>> If you think one of our surge suppressors is possibly suspect in any
>>> link issues, we will always do a free upgrade.
>>>

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

> All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly
> older, but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.
>
> Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1 and
> then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any
> ethernet link issues.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Yes, you want rev C or D.
>>
>> Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP and
>> POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.  But
>> ePMP still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the fix 
>> for
>> POE sync seems to also cure the ePMP problem.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do
>> they have the rev written on them?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the last
>>> 4 weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> That's the box, yes.
>>>
>>> I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap
>>> that out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but 
>>> it's
>>> raining for days at this point...
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?
 I’ll send you a new one to try.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything
 else coming in to the building (A LOT).


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

> I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into an
> APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
> The new design calms down goofiness like this on some circuits.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> No.  Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:06 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Is it POE sync?
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:00 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> I have an AP that we put up last year.  It ran just 

[AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Nate Burke]

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If you have a 
customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, they're 
still hosed right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them over the noise.


I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is running 
about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think the source 
of the interference is a close by corporate campus that's probably 
flooded with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the 
tower and the campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side 
with a receive level of -48.  EPMP2000 would have no effect in this 
scenario, right?

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Josh Luthman]

Lol I think that's the cable with issues...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 28, 2016 3:55 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> bbdge - no more headaches
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:23 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Rev C are currently in production with Rev D within a month.
>> Rev C has the improved RF interference bypass and the POE sync glitch
>> absorber.
>>
>> The Rev D is a mechanical change only.  100% surface mount.
>>
>> If you think one of our surge suppressors is possibly suspect in any link
>> issues, we will always do a free upgrade.
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly
 older, but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.

 Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1 and
 then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any
 ethernet link issues.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:

> Yes, you want rev C or D.
>
> Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP and
> POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.  But
> ePMP still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the fix for
> POE sync seems to also cure the ePMP problem.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do
> they have the rev written on them?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the last
>> 4 weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> That's the box, yes.
>>
>> I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap
>> that out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but 
>> it's
>> raining for days at this point...
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?
>>> I’ll send you a new one to try.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything else
>>> coming in to the building (A LOT).
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into an
 APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
 The new design calms down goofiness like this on some circuits.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 No.  Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:06 PM,  wrote:

> Is it POE sync?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> I have an AP that we put up last year.  It ran just fine until a
> few months ago.  About once a week I could simply reboot and it would 
> go
> from 10 meg to 100.  Now for the last day or two it's stuck at 10 meg.
> Plugging in to an rb2011 and WB GIGE HV card.  The weird thing is 
> that the
> Mikrotik is showing that the link partner is only advertising 10full 
> or
> 10half.  Does this mean it has to be the line/SS card or can it be the
> radio 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

bbdge - no more headaches

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:23 PM,  wrote:

> Rev C are currently in production with Rev D within a month.
> Rev C has the improved RF interference bypass and the POE sync glitch
> absorber.
>
> The Rev D is a mechanical change only.  100% surface mount.
>
> If you think one of our surge suppressors is possibly suspect in any link
> issues, we will always do a free upgrade.
>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly older,
>>> but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.
>>>
>>> Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1 and
>>> then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any
>>> ethernet link issues.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Yes, you want rev C or D.

 Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP and
 POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.  But
 ePMP still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the fix for
 POE sync seems to also cure the ePMP problem.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do
 they have the rev written on them?


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:

> Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the last 4
> weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> That's the box, yes.
>
> I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap
> that out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but it's
> raining for days at this point...
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:
>
>> OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?
>> I’ll send you a new one to try.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything else
>> coming in to the building (A LOT).
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into an
>>> APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
>>> The new design calms down goofiness like this on some circuits.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> No.  Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:06 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Is it POE sync?

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:00 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 I have an AP that we put up last year.  It ran just fine until a
 few months ago.  About once a week I could simply reboot and it would 
 go
 from 10 meg to 100.  Now for the last day or two it's stuck at 10 meg.
 Plugging in to an rb2011 and WB GIGE HV card.  The weird thing is that 
 the
 Mikrotik is showing that the link partner is only advertising 10full or
 10half.  Does this mean it has to be the line/SS card or can it be the
 radio itself?

 Has anyone seen this kind of behavior before?

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[chuck]

Rev C are currently in production with Rev D within a month.  
Rev C has the improved RF interference bypass and the POE sync glitch absorber.
The Rev D is a mechanical change only.  100% surface mount.  
If you think one of our surge suppressors is possibly suspect in any link 
issues, we will always do a free upgrade.  

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly older, 
but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes. 

  Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1 and 
then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any ethernet 
link issues.



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:

Yes, you want rev C or D.  

Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP and 
POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.  But ePMP 
still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the fix for POE sync 
seems to also cure the ePMP problem.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do 
they have the rev written on them?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:

  Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the last 
4 weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

  That's the box, yes. 

  I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap 
that out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but it's 
raining for days at this point...


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:

OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?  
I’ll send you a new one to try.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything 
else coming in to the building (A LOT).


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

  I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into 
an APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
  The new design calms down goofiness like this on some circuits.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

  No.  Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:06 PM,  wrote:

Is it POE sync?

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

I have an AP that we put up last year.  It ran just fine until 
a few months ago.  About once a week I could simply reboot and it would go from 
10 meg to 100.  Now for the last day or two it's stuck at 10 meg.  Plugging in 
to an rb2011 and WB GIGE HV card.  The weird thing is that the Mikrotik is 
showing that the link partner is only advertising 10full or 10half.  Does this 
mean it has to be the line/SS card or can it be the radio itself? 

Has anyone seen this kind of behavior before?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] Lot of NEW Telrad

[Bill Prince]

I don't sign in to facebook.

Hard rule. Sorry.


bp


On 10/28/2016 12:20 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


Lot of CPEs, base station, SIMS, antennas, all Telrad up for auction.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1098747466802644/permalink/1343901302287258/?sale_post_id=1343901302287258

*/_Dennis Burgess_/**�**Network Solution Engineer � Consultant ***

MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant 
 � 
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE


For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net 



Radio Frequiency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com 



Office: 314-735-0270

E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net 

Re: [AFMUG] Lot of NEW Telrad

[Jaime Solorza]

no facebooking for me

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> Lot of CPEs, base station, SIMS, antennas, all Telrad up for auction.
>
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1098747466802644/
> permalink/1343901302287258/?sale_post_id=1343901302287258
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess** –** Network Solution Engineer – Consultant *
>
> MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant
>  –
> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
>
>
>
> For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
>
> Radio Frequiency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
>
> Office: 314-735-0270
>
> E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Jaime Solorza]

We use that one pretty much on all our SCADA projects.Holds up and we
have no leakage issues...

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Using cable with dry gel tape (like Shireen DC-1042), instead of cable
> with gel, so you don't have goo leaking out all over the place gumming up
> the works.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> What is it you're talking about?  Maybe we're talking about two different
>> things.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That's another excellent argument for dry gel tape...
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 The issue was actually the gel in the cable, I think.  Wiped it clean
 and squeezed some out.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:01 PM, George Skorup 
 wrote:

> 9 times out of 10 it's water in the cable. Hopefully you get to it
> before it ends up all the way to the bottom and into the SS. Been through
> this way too many times. Never without dry gel tape cable ever again.
>
> On 10/28/2016 1:43 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Looks like the issue was the cable...of course...
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly
>> older, but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.
>>
>> Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1
>> and then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any
>> ethernet link issues.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, you want rev C or D.
>>>
>>> Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP
>>> and POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.
>>> But ePMP still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the 
>>> fix
>>> for POE sync seems to also cure the ePMP problem.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do
>>> they have the rev written on them?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the
 last 4 weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 That's the box, yes.

 I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap
 that out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but 
 it's
 raining for days at this point...


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:

> OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?
> I’ll send you a new one to try.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything
> else coming in to the building (A LOT).
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into
>> an APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
>> The 

[AFMUG] Lot of NEW Telrad

[Dennis Burgess]

Lot of CPEs, base station, SIMS, antennas, all Telrad up for auction.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1098747466802644/permalink/1343901302287258/?sale_post_id=1343901302287258





Dennis Burgess - Network Solution Engineer - Consultant
MikroTik Certified 
Trainer/Consultant
 - MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
Radio Frequiency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
Office: 314-735-0270
E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net

[AFMUG] For Sale

[Yent, Timothy M]

I still have the following for sale.  All reasonable offers will be accepted.  
Buyer responsible for shipping costs.


41 12dB 2.4 Ghz ePMP WBMFG Reflector Dish


1  Allot NetEnforcer AC-1440
1  Allot NetEnforcer Bypass
You can view product specifications at 
http://www.allot.com/products/platforms/netenforcer/

Tim
Mercury Network Corporation

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Mathew Howard]

Using cable with dry gel tape (like Shireen DC-1042), instead of cable with
gel, so you don't have goo leaking out all over the place gumming up the
works.


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> What is it you're talking about?  Maybe we're talking about two different
> things.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> That's another excellent argument for dry gel tape...
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The issue was actually the gel in the cable, I think.  Wiped it clean
>>> and squeezed some out.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:01 PM, George Skorup 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 9 times out of 10 it's water in the cable. Hopefully you get to it
 before it ends up all the way to the bottom and into the SS. Been through
 this way too many times. Never without dry gel tape cable ever again.

 On 10/28/2016 1:43 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Looks like the issue was the cable...of course...


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

> All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly
> older, but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.
>
> Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1 and
> then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any
> ethernet link issues.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Yes, you want rev C or D.
>>
>> Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP and
>> POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.  But
>> ePMP still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the fix 
>> for
>> POE sync seems to also cure the ePMP problem.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do
>> they have the rev written on them?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the last
>>> 4 weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> That's the box, yes.
>>>
>>> I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap
>>> that out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but 
>>> it's
>>> raining for days at this point...
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?
 I’ll send you a new one to try.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything
 else coming in to the building (A LOT).


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

> I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into an
> APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
> The new design calms down goofiness like this on some circuits.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> No.  Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Josh Luthman]

What is it you're talking about?  Maybe we're talking about two different
things.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> That's another excellent argument for dry gel tape...
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> The issue was actually the gel in the cable, I think.  Wiped it clean and
>> squeezed some out.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:01 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>>
>>> 9 times out of 10 it's water in the cable. Hopefully you get to it
>>> before it ends up all the way to the bottom and into the SS. Been through
>>> this way too many times. Never without dry gel tape cable ever again.
>>>
>>> On 10/28/2016 1:43 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> Looks like the issue was the cable...of course...
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly
 older, but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.

 Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1 and
 then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any
 ethernet link issues.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:

> Yes, you want rev C or D.
>
> Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP and
> POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.  But
> ePMP still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the fix for
> POE sync seems to also cure the ePMP problem.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do
> they have the rev written on them?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the last
>> 4 weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> That's the box, yes.
>>
>> I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap
>> that out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but 
>> it's
>> raining for days at this point...
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?
>>> I’ll send you a new one to try.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything else
>>> coming in to the building (A LOT).
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into an
 APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
 The new design calms down goofiness like this on some circuits.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 No.  Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:06 PM,  wrote:

> Is it POE sync?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> I have an AP that we 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Mathew Howard]

That's another excellent argument for dry gel tape...

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> The issue was actually the gel in the cable, I think.  Wiped it clean and
> squeezed some out.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:01 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
>> 9 times out of 10 it's water in the cable. Hopefully you get to it before
>> it ends up all the way to the bottom and into the SS. Been through this way
>> too many times. Never without dry gel tape cable ever again.
>>
>> On 10/28/2016 1:43 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> Looks like the issue was the cable...of course...
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly older,
>>> but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.
>>>
>>> Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1 and
>>> then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any
>>> ethernet link issues.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Yes, you want rev C or D.

 Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP and
 POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.  But
 ePMP still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the fix for
 POE sync seems to also cure the ePMP problem.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do
 they have the rev written on them?


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:

> Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the last 4
> weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> That's the box, yes.
>
> I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap
> that out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but it's
> raining for days at this point...
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:
>
>> OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?
>> I’ll send you a new one to try.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything else
>> coming in to the building (A LOT).
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into an
>>> APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
>>> The new design calms down goofiness like this on some circuits.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> No.  Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:06 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Is it POE sync?

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:00 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 I have an AP that we put up last year.  It ran just fine until a
 few months ago.  About once a week I could simply reboot and it would 
 go
 from 10 meg to 100.  Now for the last day or two it's stuck at 10 meg.
 Plugging in to an rb2011 and WB GIGE HV card.  The weird thing is that 
 the
 Mikrotik is showing that the link partner is only advertising 10full or
 10half.  Does this mean 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Josh Luthman]

The issue was actually the gel in the cable, I think.  Wiped it clean and
squeezed some out.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:01 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> 9 times out of 10 it's water in the cable. Hopefully you get to it before
> it ends up all the way to the bottom and into the SS. Been through this way
> too many times. Never without dry gel tape cable ever again.
>
> On 10/28/2016 1:43 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Looks like the issue was the cable...of course...
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly older,
>> but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.
>>
>> Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1 and
>> then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any
>> ethernet link issues.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, you want rev C or D.
>>>
>>> Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP and
>>> POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.  But
>>> ePMP still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the fix for
>>> POE sync seems to also cure the ePMP problem.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do they
>>> have the rev written on them?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the last 4
 weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 That's the box, yes.

 I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap
 that out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but it's
 raining for days at this point...


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:

> OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?
> I’ll send you a new one to try.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything else
> coming in to the building (A LOT).
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into an
>> APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
>> The new design calms down goofiness like this on some circuits.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> No.  Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:06 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Is it POE sync?
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:00 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> I have an AP that we put up last year.  It ran just fine until a few
>>> months ago.  About once a week I could simply reboot and it would go 
>>> from
>>> 10 meg to 100.  Now for the last day or two it's stuck at 10 meg.  
>>> Plugging
>>> in to an rb2011 and WB GIGE HV card.  The weird thing is that the 
>>> Mikrotik
>>> is showing that the link partner is only advertising 10full or 10half.
>>> Does this mean it has to be the line/SS card or can it be the radio 
>>> itself?
>>>
>>> Has anyone seen this kind of behavior before?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[George Skorup]

9 times out of 10 it's water in the cable. Hopefully you get to it 
before it ends up all the way to the bottom and into the SS. Been 
through this way too many times. Never without dry gel tape cable ever 
again.


On 10/28/2016 1:43 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Looks like the issue was the cable...of course...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:


All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly
older, but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.

Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1? I'll buy the D.1
and then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to
avoid any ethernet link issues.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM, > wrote:

Yes, you want rev C or D.
Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with
ePMP and POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and
have solved that.  But ePMP still has some goofiness that we
have not figured out but the fix for POE sync seems to also
cure the ePMP problem.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4
weeks.  Do they have the rev written on them?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:

Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like
in the last 4 weeks). If not then they don’t have the new
rev.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
That's the box, yes.
I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out
there to swap that out and see what happens. Next step
would be the line/radio but it's raining for days at this
point...
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:

OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position
metal box?
I’ll send you a new one to try.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as
everything else coming in to the building (A LOT).
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this
plugged into an APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
The new design calms down goofiness like this on
some circuits.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
No. Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:06 PM, 
wrote:

Is it POE sync?
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
I have an AP that we put up last year.  It ran
just fine until a few months ago. About once a
week I could simply reboot and it would go
from 10 meg to 100.  Now for the last day or
two it's stuck at 10 meg. Plugging in to an
rb2011 and WB GIGE HV card.  The weird thing
  

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Josh Luthman]

Looks like the issue was the cable...of course...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly older,
> but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.
>
> Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1 and
> then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any
> ethernet link issues.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Yes, you want rev C or D.
>>
>> Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP and POE
>> sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.  But ePMP
>> still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the fix for POE
>> sync seems to also cure the ePMP problem.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do they
>> have the rev written on them?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the last 4
>>> weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> That's the box, yes.
>>>
>>> I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap that
>>> out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but it's
>>> raining for days at this point...
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?
 I’ll send you a new one to try.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything else
 coming in to the building (A LOT).


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

> I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into an APC
> rack or is it in an outdoor box?
> The new design calms down goofiness like this on some circuits.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> No.  Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:06 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Is it POE sync?
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:00 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> I have an AP that we put up last year.  It ran just fine until a few
>> months ago.  About once a week I could simply reboot and it would go from
>> 10 meg to 100.  Now for the last day or two it's stuck at 10 meg.  
>> Plugging
>> in to an rb2011 and WB GIGE HV card.  The weird thing is that the 
>> Mikrotik
>> is showing that the link partner is only advertising 10full or 10half.
>> Does this mean it has to be the line/SS card or can it be the radio 
>> itself?
>>
>> Has anyone seen this kind of behavior before?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>
>


>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Mike Hammett]

It certainly makes sense. It isn't overly difficult to do, either. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:57:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 



Joe, would you agree that you must have a killer hosted PBX product in your 
portfolio if you’re going to target businesses? 

I find many small businesses want phone and Internet bundled, in fact saving 
money on phone service or replacing an outdated phone system may actually be 
what convinces them to switch from the LEC which is screwing them over with 
business pricing for everything and crappy service. Without a business phone 
solution, in many cases I don’t think the Internet sale can be made. Unless 
you’re looking to be the backup connection. 




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Falaschi 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:38 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

Two other things: 



You/someone should figure out your buyer personas. For us we sell very little 
Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly. They all seem 
to have corporate policies and decisions. The vast majority of our retail sales 
come in via the CCRs of the world. 



We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events. We left at least three of 
them in the area. It just seemed like everyone attending events was either 
another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas. We looked at who 
our best customers were and who was attending the events and the positions and 
companies were not matching up. Generally the CFOs and IT directors are not 
going to the Chamber events. A lot of small service businesses who wanted basic 
best effort internet service were attending. If you have the time and want to 
be a part of that community - it might pay off in the end but it wasn’t for us. 



Joe 









On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 



Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from the 
rest. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" < par...@cyberbroadband.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

 



I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation with a 
potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
company or one land owner you have to get through? Once you wire the place do 
you own your own infrastructure? ( no ) , can you get a term-deal? I'm not 
sure, can you? 





- Original Message - 

From: Mike Hammett 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 



I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other than 
offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 each, I'm 
fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate deals, that's 
real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals, they wouldn't have 
chased that. If they want to work all day for a $30/month account, that 
$3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much. Tying the compensation to 
the value of the sale should incentivize most toward the higher dollar 
accounts. 

I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting paid 
forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't an issue. 
Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the customer stops 
paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them properly, I'm no 
longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops working because he's 
collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a new sales guy. If 
someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything in their power to do 
it. 


Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so maybe I have the wrong approach. 



I have done regular LinkedIn posts and even shared those posts to the greater 
Chicago area B2B and sales groups, but not a job position ad. I have a hard 
time swallowing paying $400 without the guarantee of getting someone good (or 
at all). 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:45:13 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

First, I would focus on just business sales and raise the minimum package value 
sold by this person to a few hundred dollars. You don't want them wasting time 
with the consumer level stuff you already 

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[chuck]

I always figured the chamber was filled with:
1)   Insurance salesmen
2)   Real estate agents
3)   Local politicians
4)   Bureaucrats looking for a free lunch and and excuse to not work
5)   Sales, Marketing and HR people looking for a free lunch and an excuse to 
not work

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 11:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

In my opinion, the only reason to go to one of those Chamber events is to look 
for sales people to hire since that is all that go to them. I think that might 
be what someone was suggesting when they mentioned it. If you are a one man 
shop I would definitely consider 1099 them just for simplicity sake. On the 
other hand, that is one more reason a professional salesperson won't work for 
you; lack of benefits.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 12:37 PM Joe Falaschi  wrote:

  Two other things: 

  You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we sell very 
little Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly.  They 
all seem to have corporate policies and decisions.  The vast majority of our 
retail sales come in via the CCRs of the world.

  We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at least three 
of them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone attending events was either 
another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas.  We looked at who 
our best customers were and who was attending the events and the positions and 
companies were not matching up.  Generally the CFOs and IT directors are not 
going to the Chamber events.  A lot of small service businesses who wanted 
basic best effort internet service were attending.  If you have the time and 
want to be a part of that community - it might pay off in the end but it wasn’t 
for us.

  Joe


On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:


Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from the 
rest.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP





From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
To: af@afmug.com

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People


 

I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation 
with a potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you wire the place do 
you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a term-deal?  I'm not 
sure, can you?

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

  I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other 
than offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 
each, I'm fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate deals, 
that's real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals, they wouldn't 
have chased that. If they want to work all day for a $30/month account, that 
$3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much. Tying the compensation to 
the value of the sale should incentivize most toward the higher dollar accounts.

  I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting 
paid forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't an 
issue. Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the customer 
stops paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them properly, I'm 
no longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops working because 
he's collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a new sales guy. If 
someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything in their power to do 
it.


  Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so maybe I have the wrong approach.



  I have done regular LinkedIn posts and even shared those posts to the 
greater Chicago area B2B and sales groups, but not a job position ad. I have a 
hard time swallowing paying $400 without the guarantee of getting someone good 
(or at all).




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP





  From: "Lewis Bergman" 
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:45:13 AM

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People


  First, I would focus on just business sales and raise the minimum package 
value sold by this person to a few hundred dollars. You don't want them wasting 
time with the consumer level stuff you already handle well. Small businesses 
wanting to pay $100 or less are making their own phone calls and expect to be 
treated more like regular 

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Mike Hammett]

*nods* I've picked up three CCR type deals in the past month. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Joe Falaschi"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:37:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

Two other things: 


You/someone should figure out your buyer personas. For us we sell very little 
Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly. They all seem 
to have corporate policies and decisions. The vast majority of our retail sales 
come in via the CCRs of the world. 


We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events. We left at least three of 
them in the area. It just seemed like everyone attending events was either 
another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas. We looked at who 
our best customers were and who was attending the events and the positions and 
companies were not matching up. Generally the CFOs and IT directors are not 
going to the Chamber events. A lot of small service businesses who wanted basic 
best effort internet service were attending. If you have the time and want to 
be a part of that community - it might pay off in the end but it wasn’t for us. 


Joe 








On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from the 
rest. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" < par...@cyberbroadband.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

 

I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation with a 
potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
company or one land owner you have to get through? Once you wire the place do 
you own your own infrastructure? ( no ) , can you get a term-deal? I'm not 
sure, can you? 



- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 


I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other than 
offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 each, I'm 
fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate deals, that's 
real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals, they wouldn't have 
chased that. If they want to work all day for a $30/month account, that 
$3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much. Tying the compensation to 
the value of the sale should incentivize most toward the higher dollar 
accounts. 

I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting paid 
forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't an issue. 
Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the customer stops 
paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them properly, I'm no 
longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops working because he's 
collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a new sales guy. If 
someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything in their power to do 
it. 


Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so maybe I have the wrong approach. 



I have done regular LinkedIn posts and even shared those posts to the greater 
Chicago area B2B and sales groups, but not a job position ad. I have a hard 
time swallowing paying $400 without the guarantee of getting someone good (or 
at all). 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:45:13 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 


First, I would focus on just business sales and raise the minimum package value 
sold by this person to a few hundred dollars. You don't want them wasting time 
with the consumer level stuff you already handle well. Small businesses wanting 
to pay $100 or less are making their own phone calls and expect to be treated 
more like regular consumers since that is what they really are. Next, make sure 
you put a limit on the revenue share. Tying it to a contract length or 18 
months are good. If you give them rev share forever eventually they don't need 
to work to earn a substantial paycheck and become unmotivated. At least that is 
how it ended up for us when we made the mistake. 
Most of these people want some kind of estimate of what they can earn so I 
would try to come up with that and put it in the ad. In addition, if you can 
pay a lower commission and add base pay some people are just not in a position 
to live commission only. I prefer it 

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Lewis Bergman]

I don't know if Joe would agree but I would. I don't think you have to
offer it but it sure works better with it. I thought when we started
selling VoIP we would get a bunch of VoIP customers from our ISP. Actually
we got a bunch of new ISP customers from our new VoIP business. Customers
that would never have gotten a second connection from us didn't think twice
about it when we told them to get our hosted VoIP they would have to buy a
$100 internet connection from us to run it on.

Of course from their point of view the connection was free compared to the
reduced cost from the ILEC.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 12:57 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Joe, would you agree that you must have a killer hosted PBX product in
> your portfolio if you’re going to target businesses?
>
>
>
> I find many small businesses want phone and Internet bundled, in fact
> saving money on phone service or replacing an outdated phone system may
> actually be what convinces them to switch from the LEC which is screwing
> them over with business pricing for everything and crappy service.  Without
> a business phone solution, in many cases I don’t think the Internet sale
> can be made.  Unless you’re looking to be the backup connection.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Falaschi
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 12:38 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
>
>
> Two other things:
>
>
>
> You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we sell very
> little Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly.
> They all seem to have corporate policies and decisions.  The vast majority
> of our retail sales come in via the CCRs of the world.
>
>
>
> We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at least
> three of them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone attending events
> was either another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas.  We
> looked at who our best customers were and who was attending the events and
> the positions and companies were not matching up.  Generally the CFOs and
> IT directors are not going to the Chamber events.  A lot of small service
> businesses who wanted basic best effort internet service were attending.
> If you have the time and want to be a part of that community - it might pay
> off in the end but it wasn’t for us.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>
>
> Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved,
> sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from
> the rest.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
>
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>
> *From: *"CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
> 
>
>
>
> I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation
> with a potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one
> management company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you
> wire the place do you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a
> term-deal?  I'm not sure, can you?
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
>
>
> I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other
> than offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100
> each, I'm fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate
> deals, that's real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals,
> they wouldn't have chased that. If they want to work all day for a
> $30/month account, that $3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much.
> Tying the compensation to the value of the sale should incentivize most
> toward the higher dollar accounts.
>
> I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting
> paid forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't
> an issue. Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the
> customer stops paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them
> properly, I'm no longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops
> working because he's collecting 

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Ken Hohhof]

Joe, would you agree that you must have a killer hosted PBX product in your 
portfolio if you’re going to target businesses?

 

I find many small businesses want phone and Internet bundled, in fact saving 
money on phone service or replacing an outdated phone system may actually be 
what convinces them to switch from the LEC which is screwing them over with 
business pricing for everything and crappy service.  Without a business phone 
solution, in many cases I don’t think the Internet sale can be made.  Unless 
you’re looking to be the backup connection.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Falaschi
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

 

Two other things:

 

You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we sell very little 
Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly.  They all seem 
to have corporate policies and decisions.  The vast majority of our retail 
sales come in via the CCRs of the world.

 

We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at least three of 
them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone attending events was either 
another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas.  We looked at who 
our best customers were and who was attending the events and the positions and 
companies were not matching up.  Generally the CFOs and IT directors are not 
going to the Chamber events.  A lot of small service businesses who wanted 
basic best effort internet service were attending.  If you have the time and 
want to be a part of that community - it might pay off in the end but it wasn’t 
for us.

 

Joe

 

 

On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett  > wrote:

 

Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from the 
rest.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People



 

I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation with a 
potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you wire the place do 
you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a term-deal?  I'm not 
sure, can you?

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Hammett  

To: af@afmug.com  

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

 

I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other than 
offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 each, I'm 
fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate deals, that's 
real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals, they wouldn't have 
chased that. If they want to work all day for a $30/month account, that 
$3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much. Tying the compensation to 
the value of the sale should incentivize most toward the higher dollar accounts.

I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting paid 
forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't an issue. 
Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the customer stops 
paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them properly, I'm no 
longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops working because he's 
collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a new sales guy. If 
someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything in their power to do 
it.


Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so maybe I have the wrong approach.



I have done regular LinkedIn posts and even shared those posts to the greater 
Chicago area B2B and sales groups, but not a job position ad. I have a hard 
time swallowing paying $400 without the guarantee of getting someone good (or 
at all).






-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Lewis Bergman]

In my opinion, the only reason to go to one of those Chamber events is to
look for sales people to hire since that is all that go to them. I think
that might be what someone was suggesting when they mentioned it. If you
are a one man shop I would definitely consider 1099 them just for
simplicity sake. On the other hand, that is one more reason a professional
salesperson won't work for you; lack of benefits.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 12:37 PM Joe Falaschi  wrote:

> Two other things:
>
> You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we sell very
> little Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly.
> They all seem to have corporate policies and decisions.  The vast majority
> of our retail sales come in via the CCRs of the world.
>
> We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at least
> three of them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone attending events
> was either another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas.  We
> looked at who our best customers were and who was attending the events and
> the positions and companies were not matching up.  Generally the CFOs and
> IT directors are not going to the Chamber events.  A lot of small service
> businesses who wanted basic best effort internet service were attending.
> If you have the time and want to be a part of that community - it might pay
> off in the end but it wasn’t for us.
>
> Joe
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved,
> sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from
> the rest.
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>
> *From: *"CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
> 
>
> I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation
> with a potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one
> management company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you
> wire the place do you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a
> term-deal?  I'm not sure, can you?
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
> I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other
> than offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100
> each, I'm fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate
> deals, that's real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals,
> they wouldn't have chased that. If they want to work all day for a
> $30/month account, that $3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much.
> Tying the compensation to the value of the sale should incentivize most
> toward the higher dollar accounts.
>
> I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting
> paid forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't
> an issue. Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the
> customer stops paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them
> properly, I'm no longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops
> working because he's collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a
> new sales guy. If someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything
> in their power to do it.
>
>
> Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so maybe I have the wrong approach.
>
>
>
> I have done regular LinkedIn posts and even shared those posts to the
> greater Chicago area B2B and sales groups, but not a job position ad. I
> have a hard time swallowing paying $400 without the guarantee of getting
> someone good (or at all).
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Joe Falaschi]

Two other things:

You/someone should figure out your buyer personas.  For us we sell very little 
Internet Service to retail organizations - especially directly.  They all seem 
to have corporate policies and decisions.  The vast majority of our retail 
sales come in via the CCRs of the world.

We stopped going to the Chamber of Commerce events.  We left at least three of 
them in the area.  It just seemed like everyone attending events was either 
another sales person or not fitting into our buyer personas.  We looked at who 
our best customers were and who was attending the events and the positions and 
companies were not matching up.  Generally the CFOs and IT directors are not 
going to the Chamber events.  A lot of small service businesses who wanted 
basic best effort internet service were attending.  If you have the time and 
want to be a part of that community - it might pay off in the end but it wasn’t 
for us.

Joe


> On Oct 28, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
> sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from 
> the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  >
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
> 
> 
>  
> I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation with 
> a potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
> company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you wire the place 
> do you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a term-deal?  I'm 
> not sure, can you?
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: Mike Hammett 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
> 
> I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other than 
> offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 each, 
> I'm fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate deals, 
> that's real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals, they 
> wouldn't have chased that. If they want to work all day for a $30/month 
> account, that $3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much. Tying the 
> compensation to the value of the sale should incentivize most toward the 
> higher dollar accounts.
> 
> I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting 
> paid forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't an 
> issue. Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the customer 
> stops paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them properly, 
> I'm no longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops working 
> because he's collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a new sales 
> guy. If someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything in their 
> power to do it.
> 
> 
> Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so maybe I have the wrong approach.
> 
> 
> 
> I have done regular LinkedIn posts and even shared those posts to the greater 
> Chicago area B2B and sales groups, but not a job position ad. I have a hard 
> time swallowing paying $400 without the guarantee of getting someone good (or 
> at all).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "Lewis Bergman"  >
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:45:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
> 
> First, I would 

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Roger Timmerman]

Most of what Chuck says is true about the first phase of UTOPIA.  It was a
disaster.  Some of it was their fault, some of it wasn't.

For example, AT was actually the first service provider on UTOPIA and had
an initial exclusivity period.  One day the higher-ups at AT decided to
abandon that part of the business without telling anyone.  AT's services
on UTOPIA went dark and no one was there to answer the phones.  Took a
while to recover from that one.

The next provider to go belly-up was Mstar which was a whole other
financial disaster for UTOPIA.

RUS loans that were approved and then later withdrawn caused UTOPIA to
invest heavily in rural areas rather than build in more strategic areas.
This was the topic of a lawsuit between UTOPIA and RUS for which there was
a recent $11M settlement after several years of fighting.

A lawsuit from Qwest tied up construction for a while and cost a fortune to
fight but eventually resulted in a settlement, was still a huge blow to the
project.

Bad management, bad state legislators, bad contractors, you name it.
UTOPIA has had tough times.

However, there was a restructuring about 8 years ago when I first came on
board.  The management company was given the boot and we parted ways with
bad contractors and partners. We in-housed our operations, NOC,
technicians, network engineering, etc and recruited better service provider
partners.  Costs dramatically decreased, reliability increased, and the
project gained some stability even though it was still costing a lot of
money keep the lights on.  We used what money we had after a debt refinance
of the original bond to finish Tremonton City, and we partnered with
Brigham City to build their city with them doing their own bond.  The
revenues covered all of Brigham City's new debt payments and the new
revenue decreased the bleeding for UTOPIA.

We knew that if we could replicate the success of Tremonton and Brigham
City we would not only build out more network, but also would further
alleviate the bleeding and maybe even break even.  9 of the original 11
UTOPIA cities agreed to take down new debt to do this. One dropped out when
it came time to bond so only 8 proceeded with the bond.  Because it had
different city membership, we had to create a new agency that acts only as
a financing arm for furthering the project, with the same purpose of
UTOPIA, but without investing in the cities that didn't financially support
the new growth.  UTOPIA and UIA (the 8 city project) have taken down three
additional incremental bonds for building out the system.  Now we cover a
much larger area and are covering all of costs and generating positive net
revenues. All of the debt service is also being paid for by UTOPIA and UIA
except for the first phase bond.  Rather than spend the net revenues on
partially addressing the original bond, we are investing in finishing out
the project.

We are currently building out at our fastest pace with a model that is
financially sustainable and actually profitable.  Our service provider
partners are stable, growing, competitive, and well liked.  If bonding
weren't so politically unpopular, you would see us or other similar
projects everywhere.  However, bond is a four-letter word these days and it
is still an uphill battle to do these types of projects despite how well
they do.

Roger



On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 10:46 AM,  wrote:

> It is all armchair quarterbacking at this point.
>
> It went wrong at its inception.
> A guy named Arthur Brady with Telecom Choices played the part of Harold
> Hill in the Music Man.
> He got paid for the band instruments and blew out of town.
>
> So, the cities were sold a bill of goods in my opinion.  But the largest
> city was smart enough not to put its foot in the trap. Salt Lake City.
>
> Then they had issues with contractors and quality of work.
> They overpaid.  They borrowed too much etc etc.
> They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network.
>
> There was a point in time that Wireless Beehive was installing at a weekly
> rate greater than UTOPIA and almost had as many customers.  We were in the
> hole perhaps $2-4M and they were in the hole more than $100M.  I think it
> was more like $216M.  All backed by bonds that were tied to sales tax
> revenue.
>
> Originally they needed 120,000 customers they said to be viable.  That was
> a 1/3rd take rate.
> I am guessing they don't even have 25K at this point but that is just a
> guess based on nothing.
>
> So the debt service was more than they could ever cover it appeared at one
> time.  I fully expected bankruptcy.  Then they attempted to do a deal with
> an Australian company that would have forced personal debt on everyone
> owning property in all the member cities.
>
> It has been a cluster from the start.  Sounds like Roger has turned it
> around.
>
> I personally am philosophically opposed to governments providing goods or
> services that private companies can do.  Obviously streets are 

Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras

[Jaime Solorza]

No.. No lights at all.   I will go by later and check

On Oct 28, 2016 10:54 AM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> One lights on... They checked this morning
>
> On Oct 28, 2016 10:22 AM, "Chris Wright"  wrote:
>
>> Looks like IR light reflecting off a table leg.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Wright
>>
>> Network Administrator
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 9:07 PM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras
>>
>>
>>
>> These two snapshots I just took on my phone through an app called
>> iVMS-4500 are in the basement work room of my son in laws sign design
>> business.  There is not light down there.   This is the IR of the TurboHD
>> camera at work.BTW.. I have no idea what that shiny object or light is
>> I zoomed into to look at is.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 27, 2016 9:37 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>> Nice, especially if the cute neighbor has a hot tub...
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:34 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have done this on 5 different towers this summer and it works great.
>> The camera I am using a PTZ with 30x optical zoom Dahua brand model#
>> DH-SD50A230IN-HC-S2 Its a Chinese camera but the housing is rugged and
>> rated for IP67. You can pick them up for anywhere from $400-600 online.
>> Here is a video I made from a 130' tower with this camera. In the video I
>> am controlling the camera from 15 miles away sitting at my office.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://youtu.be/wl9gLF0nZ9o
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Jerry Head 
>> wrote:
>>
>> We have hung about 6 of these for the local 911 guys...
>> http://www.axis.com/ie/en/products/axis-p56-series
>> They seem to work pretty well.
>>
>>
>> On 10/27/2016 9:54 AM, Paul McCall wrote:
>>
>> We want to put a camera(s) at the top of a 400� tower.� Best way to
>> get 360 degree coverage?
>>
>> �
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> �
>>
>> Paul McCall, President
>>
>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>
>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>
>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>
>> 772-564-6800�
>>
>> pa...@pdmnet.net
>>
>> www.pdmnet.com
>>
>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>
>> �
>>
>> �
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Joe Falaschi]

Others have already given you some good points.  Getting partners in any 
definition of the term, IT consultants, building managers, PBX installers, etc 
is probably a good intermediate step.

If you get to the point where you need an employee to be on the payroll, I 
think you’re going to need to go the route of base pay plus commission.  That 
is what we do anyway.  Commissions do not start until you sell $1500/month and 
after that it is a one time payment of 1x the MRR and as the sales go higher in 
the month the multiplier goes higher.  There are no residuals because we need 
the person to keep making sales.

We are near enough Chicago that the range in pay is huge.  You can find people 
selling business services with base pay over 100k.  I think your current job 
description is tough.  I mean you’re asking a lot from someone without much 
initial compensation.  To some extent you’re almost in startup mode as far as 
the sales person is concerned.  Since you do not have a system to drop them 
into with a proven success of sales, they have a safer personal financial 
future if they work at a fast food restaurant.  Risk / reward, right - but they 
need to have confidence this could work for them.  The base pay is what does 
that in my opinion.  Everyone we have brought in has taken some time to ramp up 
- months.  It’s a long term approach.

I haven’t done this yet but sometimes I talk to someone at the cell phone store 
or the fast food drive through at 6AM that is just so darn energetic and happy. 
 I wonder if I should give them a business card and tell them to call me about 
a job.

If you can’t swing a direct hire, that’s fine.  I think then you need to go the 
route of attempting to make connections with people who have a network of 
people who can do the selling for you.  Or, you do marketing to get the calls 
coming it for you to answer.  We’ve had better success converting sales via 
advertising to residential customers than business customers though.

Joe



> On Oct 28, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> You might just have to accept that an ant can't move a rubber tree plant.
> 
> Before getting into wireless, my ISP sold T1 and ISDN to small businesses 
> primarily in office parks.  Like you, I came up via the technical side, and 
> am not a born salesman.  I tried direct sales, and had no success until I 
> started working with the management companies at the office parks.  Most of 
> my business came from new tenants.  There is usually an information packet 
> for new tenants with a list of approved contractors and local providers.  
> They usually want to minimize who is working in their wiring closets and 
> there might be some hoops to jump through to get on the list of approved 
> contractors.  At one office complex, I had master keys to the mechanical 
> rooms which even the AT techs didn't have.  One building (one of those with 
> single person offices and a shared receptionist and conference room), the 
> deal involved me wiring each new office they rented with Cat5 drops for free, 
> I think they were taking advantage of me to their building wired for free.
> 
> You want to be on that approved contractor list or have your brochure 
> included in the new tenant packet.  They also sometimes have monthly 
> newsletters for tenants and are willing to include a one-pager or trifold 
> brochure for you.  Figure out what it takes to be the preferred provider for 
> the management company.  (Hint: it usually includes giving them free 
> Internet.)  They will sell for you.  As long as you don't screw up.  Also, 
> some may want a piece of the action, not in my experience though.  I was in 
> buildings with a lot of churn and the property manager wanted to lease space, 
> and was interested in anything that helped them do that.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 10:24 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
> 
> One man show.  :-)
> 
> -Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe 
> Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:55:26 -0500 (CDT)
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
> 
> you also might look a little closer to home, do you have an exceptional tech 
> who is aware of the operation, and driven? you might already have what youre 
> looking for in house, you might lose a solid tech, but customers love sales 
> folks who actually know what theyre talking about
> 
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 9:50 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm < 
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> our partner company got one of the sales guys from on of the vendors 
>> to come over to him, if you can snatch up a vendor rep (a good rep) 
>> youll be golden
>> 
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:45 AM, Mike Hammett 

Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras

[Jaime Solorza]

One lights on... They checked this morning

On Oct 28, 2016 10:22 AM, "Chris Wright"  wrote:

> Looks like IR light reflecting off a table leg.
>
>
>
> Chris Wright
>
> Network Administrator
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 9:07 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras
>
>
>
> These two snapshots I just took on my phone through an app called
> iVMS-4500 are in the basement work room of my son in laws sign design
> business.  There is not light down there.   This is the IR of the TurboHD
> camera at work.BTW.. I have no idea what that shiny object or light is
> I zoomed into to look at is.
>
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2016 9:37 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> Nice, especially if the cute neighbor has a hot tub...
>
>
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:34 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras
>
>
>
> Paul,
>
>
>
> I have done this on 5 different towers this summer and it works great. The
> camera I am using a PTZ with 30x optical zoom Dahua brand model#
> DH-SD50A230IN-HC-S2 Its a Chinese camera but the housing is rugged and
> rated for IP67. You can pick them up for anywhere from $400-600 online.
> Here is a video I made from a 130' tower with this camera. In the video I
> am controlling the camera from 15 miles away sitting at my office.
>
>
>
> https://youtu.be/wl9gLF0nZ9o
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Jerry Head 
> wrote:
>
> We have hung about 6 of these for the local 911 guys...
> http://www.axis.com/ie/en/products/axis-p56-series
> They seem to work pretty well.
>
>
> On 10/27/2016 9:54 AM, Paul McCall wrote:
>
> We want to put a camera(s) at the top of a 400� tower.� Best way to
> get 360 degree coverage?
>
> �
>
> Paul
>
> �
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800�
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
> �
>
> �
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[chuck]

It is all armchair quarterbacking at this point.

It went wrong at its inception.
A guy named Arthur Brady with Telecom Choices played the part of Harold Hill 
in the Music Man.

He got paid for the band instruments and blew out of town.

So, the cities were sold a bill of goods in my opinion.  But the largest 
city was smart enough not to put its foot in the trap. Salt Lake City.


Then they had issues with contractors and quality of work.
They overpaid.  They borrowed too much etc etc.
They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network.

There was a point in time that Wireless Beehive was installing at a weekly 
rate greater than UTOPIA and almost had as many customers.  We were in the 
hole perhaps $2-4M and they were in the hole more than $100M.  I think it 
was more like $216M.  All backed by bonds that were tied to sales tax 
revenue.


Originally they needed 120,000 customers they said to be viable.  That was a 
1/3rd take rate.
I am guessing they don't even have 25K at this point but that is just a 
guess based on nothing.


So the debt service was more than they could ever cover it appeared at one 
time.  I fully expected bankruptcy.  Then they attempted to do a deal with 
an Australian company that would have forced personal debt on everyone 
owning property in all the member cities.


It has been a cluster from the start.  Sounds like Roger has turned it 
around.


I personally am philosophically opposed to governments providing goods or 
services that private companies can do.  Obviously streets are better done 
by government.  Arguably water and sewer.  I have lived in cities with two 
power companies.  But all the rest should be done by commercial providers.


More importantly government should never compete with businesses.
They have many unfair advantages.



-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 1:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Chuck McCown wrote:

Utopia tried that method in Brigham City and it didn't work so well (for a
variety of reasons).
 Did UTOPIA have any option? Municipalities in Utah are barred from 
providing retail services.


 Where do you think they went wrong?

Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[chuck]

Well, the mayor and city council said it didn’t work so well.   This was 4 
years ago or so.  I was there multiple times by invitation.  

From: Roger Timmerman 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Not sure why anyone would say the UTOPIA/Brigham City project didn't work.  
~25% of the city pre-committed for services which was enough to back a bond to 
fund the whole city's fiber build.  Since then subscriber-ship has continued to 
increase, is now at about 33% across the entire city, and generates net 
positive cash flow.  It's a great model and I would expect we will see much 
more of it (albeit without the liens the city used alleviate their risk).  
Despite occasional complaints, a third party net promoter survey last March 
gave UTOPIA a 57 net promoter score, which is almost unbelievably high in the 
ISP industry.  I'm not sure what you're comparing us to, but that seems like 
very successful project to me. 

Roger

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Sterling Jacobson  
wrote:

  I like the idea of the bond, but I don’t like the idea of a split 
responsibility/ISP where one entity owns the fiber and others bill and provide 
service over it.





  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of can...@believewireless.net
  Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:32 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber



  Seems like a race to the bottom on pricing. I'm sure spammers and DCMA 
violators will love it!



  On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Utopia tried that method in Brigham City and it didn't work so well (for a 
variety of reasons).

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 8:35 AM


To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Hi,

This is a small "town" that is directly connected to my hometown of
Idaho Falls. The road I drive to work on, the west side of that street
is Idaho Falls, the east side is Ammon. We had a lot of wireless
customers in the Ammon area when I was a WISP. They have been working on
this fiber project for almost 10 years.

It's a very interesting way to do it. They have bundled the $3,000
installation into a low interest "bond" kind of thing that is attached
to the property... so that's about $15/month for 20 years. Then they
have a small transport/utility fee for the fiber itself of $16.50/month.

The most amazing part is the user can switch between providers from a
website, picking the speed and service that they want, and it changes
their service immediately. It will be interesting to see how this goes.
They are supposed to have their first residential customer live by the
end of this year.

They are saying 100Mbps x 100Mbps service would be about $60-$70 per
month total (with $0 installation cost).


http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/06/what-if-switching-fiber-isps-was-as-easy-as-clicking-a-mouse/

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras

[Chris Wright]

Looks like IR light reflecting off a table leg.

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 9:07 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras


These two snapshots I just took on my phone through an app called iVMS-4500 are 
in the basement work room of my son in laws sign design business.  There is not 
light down there.   This is the IR of the TurboHD camera at work.BTW.. I 
have no idea what that shiny object or light is I zoomed into to look at is.

On Oct 27, 2016 9:37 PM, "Chuck McCown" 
> wrote:
Nice, especially if the cute neighbor has a hot tub...

From: Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras

Paul,

I have done this on 5 different towers this summer and it works great. The 
camera I am using a PTZ with 30x optical zoom Dahua brand model# 
DH-SD50A230IN-HC-S2 Its a Chinese camera but the housing is rugged and rated 
for IP67. You can pick them up for anywhere from $400-600 online. Here is a 
video I made from a 130' tower with this camera. In the video I am controlling 
the camera from 15 miles away sitting at my office.

https://youtu.be/wl9gLF0nZ9o




On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Jerry Head 
> wrote:
We have hung about 6 of these for the local 911 guys...
http://www.axis.com/ie/en/products/axis-p56-series
They seem to work pretty well.


On 10/27/2016 9:54 AM, Paul McCall wrote:
We want to put a camera(s) at the top of a 400� tower.� Best way to get 360 
degree coverage?
�
Paul
�
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800�
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com
�
�

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Ken Hohhof]

You might just have to accept that an ant can't move a rubber tree plant.

Before getting into wireless, my ISP sold T1 and ISDN to small businesses 
primarily in office parks.  Like you, I came up via the technical side, and am 
not a born salesman.  I tried direct sales, and had no success until I started 
working with the management companies at the office parks.  Most of my business 
came from new tenants.  There is usually an information packet for new tenants 
with a list of approved contractors and local providers.  They usually want to 
minimize who is working in their wiring closets and there might be some hoops 
to jump through to get on the list of approved contractors.  At one office 
complex, I had master keys to the mechanical rooms which even the AT techs 
didn't have.  One building (one of those with single person offices and a 
shared receptionist and conference room), the deal involved me wiring each new 
office they rented with Cat5 drops for free, I think they were taking advantage 
of me to their building wired for free.

You want to be on that approved contractor list or have your brochure included 
in the new tenant packet.  They also sometimes have monthly newsletters for 
tenants and are willing to include a one-pager or trifold brochure for you.  
Figure out what it takes to be the preferred provider for the management 
company.  (Hint: it usually includes giving them free Internet.)  They will 
sell for you.  As long as you don't screw up.  Also, some may want a piece of 
the action, not in my experience though.  I was in buildings with a lot of 
churn and the property manager wanted to lease space, and was interested in 
anything that helped them do that.



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 10:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

One man show.  :-)

-Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe 
Brothers WISP




- Original Message -
From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:55:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

you also might look a little closer to home, do you have an exceptional tech 
who is aware of the operation, and driven? you might already have what youre 
looking for in house, you might lose a solid tech, but customers love sales 
folks who actually know what theyre talking about

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 9:50 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm < 
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> our partner company got one of the sales guys from on of the vendors 
> to come over to him, if you can snatch up a vendor rep (a good rep) 
> youll be golden
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:45 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> What's the best way to get a B2B sales guy? That's the overall point, 
>> but digging in deeper, what should I be asking for? I'm very tech 
>> oriented, very little sales. I'm needing someone that can do it on 
>> their own without guidance from me on what I want them to do. To me, 
>> sales sounds more like B2C or lower end services while business 
>> development sounds more B2B or higher end, but does the sales world reflect 
>> that?
>>
>> Where do I look? The #1 source people say is referrals, but 
>> apparently I don't know anyone that knows anyone worth a darn as I've 
>> posted it on various social media...  a dozen times over the last couple 
>> years.
>>
>>
>> Here's the copy from a posting I did this past summer:
>>
>> Job Description
>>
>> Local ISP seeking independent sales leader. ICS has been operated in 
>> the DeKalb - Naperville area for 12 years by tech guys.
>>
>> Compensation will be a one time commission after the sale and a 10% 
>> residual to ensure the customer is attended for on an ongoing basis. 
>> Our services range from $30/month into the thousands of dollars a 
>> month. The path you take is yours.
>>
>> Job Requirements
>>
>> We need someone with B2B experience to lead our sales force. You will 
>> be responsible for the entire sales and marketing process. The tech 
>> guys will say what they can do where and your job will be to develop 
>> the strategy and then pursue those clients. We can teach a good B2B 
>> salesperson the tech they need to know far easier than you'll teach us how 
>> to sell.
>>
>> We believe that boots on the ground would be necessary, so 
>> willingness to travel to the DeKalb, Kane, Kendall, southwest DuPage 
>> and northwest Will County areas as needed would be required.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange  
>> 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] FYI Cambium PTP doesn't sync with PMP

[Jon Langeler]

It seems anti-Cambium not to have that sync work 100%. And anything less than 
100% these days and the customers will notice.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


On Oct 28, 2016, at 11:11 AM, Matt  wrote:

>> Not 100% impossible. It's worked for us if the master PTP450 is co-located
>> with the PMP450 APs. We set the DL % to the same (we're using 65% DL where
>> we're doing this).
>> 
>> The big problem is the auto-ranging that the PTP450 does, and there's not
>> much you can do about it. Once it's synced up, if you've set the framing
>> properly, they will sync just fine.
>> 
>> Many people on the list have asked for, like, forever to have a way to "set"
>> the framing parameters so that this would be easier.
> 
> Back with the backhaul 20's transmit frame spreading used to help a
> lot with the issue.  I would think having a setting to cap range would
> be easy for cambium to do since they are based on an AP anyway.
> 
> 
> 
>> The other problem since the beginning of time with Canopy style PTPs is that
>> the master starts up in beaconing mode with a max range of like 120 miles
>> and waits for a BHS reg attempt then does auto-ranging and shifts the
>> timing. So yeah, it's pretty much impossible.
>> 
>> On 10/27/2016 3:18 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>> 
>> that's been true since the beginning of time.
>> 
>> you can get it close with 50% downlink on the AP and then use the frame
>> calculator to match the air delay parameter to the BHS.  not easy at all but
>> you could probably get it to work.
>> 
>> your best bet is to use different bands for PMP and PTP tho.
>> 
>> -Sean
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Jon Langeler 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't think their support department understands the concept of sync.
>>> But as of now we have given up on PTP products syncing 100% with PMP
>>> products. Oh well
>>> 
>>> Jon Langeler
>>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Microsoft Store DNS

[Mike Hammett]

So far, it looks like storeedgefd.dsx.mp.microsoft.com is a good one to work 
with. I know that it stops the store from loading, but I'm not yet sure if it 
stops the store from updating. Hopefully it doesn't update via other methods.

-Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe 
Brothers WISP




- Original Message -
From: Mike Hammett 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 10:00:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [AFMUG] Microsoft Store DNS

Do any of you know what DNS the Microsoft store users? I need to block access 
to the Microsoft store to prevent application updates. Blocking access to it 
through layer 7 inspection of DNS would seem to be the most effective.

-Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe 
Brothers WISP

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Mike Hammett]

One man show.  :-)

-Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe 
Brothers WISP




- Original Message -
From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:55:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

you also might look a little closer to home, do you have an exceptional
tech who is aware of the operation, and driven? you might already have what
youre looking for in house, you might lose a solid tech, but customers love
sales folks who actually know what theyre talking about

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 9:50 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> our partner company got one of the sales guys from on of the vendors to
> come over to him, if you can snatch up a vendor rep (a good rep) youll be
> golden
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:45 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> What's the best way to get a B2B sales guy? That's the overall point, but
>> digging in deeper, what should I be asking for? I'm very tech oriented,
>> very little sales. I'm needing someone that can do it on their own without
>> guidance from me on what I want them to do. To me, sales sounds more like
>> B2C or lower end services while business development sounds more B2B or
>> higher end, but does the sales world reflect that?
>>
>> Where do I look? The #1 source people say is referrals, but apparently I
>> don't know anyone that knows anyone worth a darn as I've posted it on
>> various social media...  a dozen times over the last couple years.
>>
>>
>> Here's the copy from a posting I did this past summer:
>>
>> Job Description
>>
>> Local ISP seeking independent sales leader. ICS has been operated in the
>> DeKalb - Naperville area for 12 years by tech guys.
>>
>> Compensation will be a one time commission after the sale and a 10%
>> residual to ensure the customer is attended for on an ongoing basis. Our
>> services range from $30/month into the thousands of dollars a month. The
>> path you take is yours.
>>
>> Job Requirements
>>
>> We need someone with B2B experience to lead our sales force. You will be
>> responsible for the entire sales and marketing process. The tech guys will
>> say what they can do where and your job will be to develop the strategy and
>> then pursue those clients. We can teach a good B2B salesperson the tech
>> they need to know far easier than you'll teach us how to sell.
>>
>> We believe that boots on the ground would be necessary, so willingness to
>> travel to the DeKalb, Kane, Kendall, southwest DuPage and northwest Will
>> County areas as needed would be required.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] FYI Cambium PTP doesn't sync with PMP

[Matt]

> Not 100% impossible. It's worked for us if the master PTP450 is co-located
> with the PMP450 APs. We set the DL % to the same (we're using 65% DL where
> we're doing this).
>
> The big problem is the auto-ranging that the PTP450 does, and there's not
> much you can do about it. Once it's synced up, if you've set the framing
> properly, they will sync just fine.
>
> Many people on the list have asked for, like, forever to have a way to "set"
> the framing parameters so that this would be easier.

Back with the backhaul 20's transmit frame spreading used to help a
lot with the issue.  I would think having a setting to cap range would
be easy for cambium to do since they are based on an AP anyway.



> The other problem since the beginning of time with Canopy style PTPs is that
> the master starts up in beaconing mode with a max range of like 120 miles
> and waits for a BHS reg attempt then does auto-ranging and shifts the
> timing. So yeah, it's pretty much impossible.
>
> On 10/27/2016 3:18 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>
> that's been true since the beginning of time.
>
> you can get it close with 50% downlink on the AP and then use the frame
> calculator to match the air delay parameter to the BHS.  not easy at all but
> you could probably get it to work.
>
> your best bet is to use different bands for PMP and PTP tho.
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>>
>> I don't think their support department understands the concept of sync.
>> But as of now we have given up on PTP products syncing 100% with PMP
>> products. Oh well
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: I got dibs on the Grand Canyon

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I dont like art, but I would have been inclined to pummel that guy

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> While walking through the Louvre I saw some dickhead putting his grubby
> little hands all over some large African art. I scolded the little bastard
> and he backed off but I could tell he didn't really understand why that was
> inappropriate. The museum staff person nearby seemed unconcerned when
> informed. That place is full of valuable objects you could touch if so
> inclined.
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 1:29 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Is cheyenne mountain taken yet?  If not, I'll take that one ;)  Might
>> need some help with the takeover though
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 9:34 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> I’ll take the Smithsonian Museum of American History and the Air and
>> Space Museum...
>> Perhaps one of the mints too.  Ft Knox?
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:04 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I got dibs on the Grand Canyon
>>
>>
>> Great idea. I'll take Yellowstone
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 7:54 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/
>> 10/27/jury-acquits-leaders-of-armed-takeover-of-the-oregon-
>> wildlife-refuge-of-federal-conspiracy-charges/
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> 
>>   
>>
>>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

you also might look a little closer to home, do you have an exceptional
tech who is aware of the operation, and driven? you might already have what
youre looking for in house, you might lose a solid tech, but customers love
sales folks who actually know what theyre talking about

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 9:50 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> our partner company got one of the sales guys from on of the vendors to
> come over to him, if you can snatch up a vendor rep (a good rep) youll be
> golden
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:45 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> What's the best way to get a B2B sales guy? That's the overall point, but
>> digging in deeper, what should I be asking for? I'm very tech oriented,
>> very little sales. I'm needing someone that can do it on their own without
>> guidance from me on what I want them to do. To me, sales sounds more like
>> B2C or lower end services while business development sounds more B2B or
>> higher end, but does the sales world reflect that?
>>
>> Where do I look? The #1 source people say is referrals, but apparently I
>> don't know anyone that knows anyone worth a darn as I've posted it on
>> various social media...  a dozen times over the last couple years.
>>
>>
>> Here's the copy from a posting I did this past summer:
>>
>> Job Description
>>
>> Local ISP seeking independent sales leader. ICS has been operated in the
>> DeKalb - Naperville area for 12 years by tech guys.
>>
>> Compensation will be a one time commission after the sale and a 10%
>> residual to ensure the customer is attended for on an ongoing basis. Our
>> services range from $30/month into the thousands of dollars a month. The
>> path you take is yours.
>>
>> Job Requirements
>>
>> We need someone with B2B experience to lead our sales force. You will be
>> responsible for the entire sales and marketing process. The tech guys will
>> say what they can do where and your job will be to develop the strategy and
>> then pursue those clients. We can teach a good B2B salesperson the tech
>> they need to know far easier than you'll teach us how to sell.
>>
>> We believe that boots on the ground would be necessary, so willingness to
>> travel to the DeKalb, Kane, Kendall, southwest DuPage and northwest Will
>> County areas as needed would be required.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

our partner company got one of the sales guys from on of the vendors to
come over to him, if you can snatch up a vendor rep (a good rep) youll be
golden

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:45 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> What's the best way to get a B2B sales guy? That's the overall point, but
> digging in deeper, what should I be asking for? I'm very tech oriented,
> very little sales. I'm needing someone that can do it on their own without
> guidance from me on what I want them to do. To me, sales sounds more like
> B2C or lower end services while business development sounds more B2B or
> higher end, but does the sales world reflect that?
>
> Where do I look? The #1 source people say is referrals, but apparently I
> don't know anyone that knows anyone worth a darn as I've posted it on
> various social media...  a dozen times over the last couple years.
>
>
> Here's the copy from a posting I did this past summer:
>
> Job Description
>
> Local ISP seeking independent sales leader. ICS has been operated in the
> DeKalb - Naperville area for 12 years by tech guys.
>
> Compensation will be a one time commission after the sale and a 10%
> residual to ensure the customer is attended for on an ongoing basis. Our
> services range from $30/month into the thousands of dollars a month. The
> path you take is yours.
>
> Job Requirements
>
> We need someone with B2B experience to lead our sales force. You will be
> responsible for the entire sales and marketing process. The tech guys will
> say what they can do where and your job will be to develop the strategy and
> then pursue those clients. We can teach a good B2B salesperson the tech
> they need to know far easier than you'll teach us how to sell.
>
> We believe that boots on the ground would be necessary, so willingness to
> travel to the DeKalb, Kane, Kendall, southwest DuPage and northwest Will
> County areas as needed would be required.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] FYI Cambium PTP doesn't sync with PMP

[Bill Prince]

Not 100% impossible. It's worked for us if the master PTP450 is 
co-located with the PMP450 APs. We set the DL % to the same (we're using 
65% DL where we're doing this).


The big problem is the auto-ranging that the PTP450 does, and there's 
not much you can do about it. Once it's synced up, if you've set the 
framing properly, they will sync just fine.


Many people on the list have asked for, like, forever to have a way to 
"set" the framing parameters so that this would be easier.



bp


On 10/27/2016 1:23 PM, George Skorup wrote:
The other problem since the beginning of time with Canopy style PTPs 
is that the master starts up in beaconing mode with a max range of 
like 120 miles and waits for a BHS reg attempt then does auto-ranging 
and shifts the timing. So yeah, it's pretty much impossible.


On 10/27/2016 3:18 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

that's been true since the beginning of time.

you can get it close with 50% downlink on the AP and then use the 
frame calculator to match the air delay parameter to the BHS.  not 
easy at all but you could probably get it to work.


your best bet is to use different bands for PMP and PTP tho.

-Sean

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:


I don't think their support department understands the concept of
sync. But as of now we have given up on PTP products syncing 100%
with PMP products. Oh well

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

That is correct... all the providers bring their connections into the 
main NOC for the city (brand new facility). So you have to get transport 
there, but then you are billing the customer directly for whatever 
services they want from you. It looks like 100Mbps residential will be 
around $20/month. I'm not sure how you compete on that level, but that 
seems to be around the price where the 3-4 providers are at right now.


The city makes money billing the customer the $16.50/month for the 
"transport" for each customer.


Travis


On 10/28/2016 7:47 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
Can a WISP like us even compete in the city of Ammon? I assume that 
this fiber all goes to some sort of Central Office building and any 
carrier that wants to come into town can then run a line into this 
building and sell on the FTTH plant. So in reality the only providers 
that can compete is whoever owns the long-haul fiber coming into this 
town. And selling service in the $20/month price bracket to the 
customer and then having to turn around and pay the city of Ammon on 
top of that sounds like you'd be lucky to make a couple dollars per 
customer at all.


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 5:05 AM, > wrote:


Rob Genovesi wrote:
> I despise over regulation but it could create a large enough barrier
> to entry that only serious operators would enter the market and that
> might prevent race to the bottom, at least for a little while.
  How do you define a serious operator and who gets to set the rules?

  I'd much rather have low barriers to entry and any downside that
it brings. Generally speaking we need more competition, not less.

  A far larger long term threat than bottom of the barrel
operators is market consolidation, due to the fact that the ISP
business is very much a volume business where the winner can just
outscale smaller players.


> >> I'm sure spammers and DCMA violators will love it!
> >
> > How do you figure the above applies?
>
> That seems pretty obvious, DCMA violators will just keep jumping to
> the next service provider any time their current provider is
forced to
> turn them off.
  That assumes there is an infinite supply of ISPs to chose from,
which there clearly isn't. In other words, this is not a viable
long term strategy, and most people are smart enough to figure
that out and don't go down that road. Much easier to just use a
VPN service than jumping ship every time you get a DMCA complaint.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Mike Hammett]

Either approach. Sometimes the management company wants to be involved, 
sometimes they don't. Sometimes the anchor stores are owned separately from the 
rest. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:06:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 

 

I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation with a 
potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
company or one land owner you have to get through? Once you wire the place do 
you own your own infrastructure? ( no ) , can you get a term-deal? I'm not 
sure, can you? 



- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 


I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other than 
offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 each, I'm 
fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate deals, that's 
real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals, they wouldn't have 
chased that. If they want to work all day for a $30/month account, that 
$3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much. Tying the compensation to 
the value of the sale should incentivize most toward the higher dollar 
accounts. 

I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting paid 
forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't an issue. 
Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the customer stops 
paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them properly, I'm no 
longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops working because he's 
collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a new sales guy. If 
someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything in their power to do 
it. 


Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so maybe I have the wrong approach. 



I have done regular LinkedIn posts and even shared those posts to the greater 
Chicago area B2B and sales groups, but not a job position ad. I have a hard 
time swallowing paying $400 without the guarantee of getting someone good (or 
at all). 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:45:13 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People 


First, I would focus on just business sales and raise the minimum package value 
sold by this person to a few hundred dollars. You don't want them wasting time 
with the consumer level stuff you already handle well. Small businesses wanting 
to pay $100 or less are making their own phone calls and expect to be treated 
more like regular consumers since that is what they really are. Next, make sure 
you put a limit on the revenue share. Tying it to a contract length or 18 
months are good. If you give them rev share forever eventually they don't need 
to work to earn a substantial paycheck and become unmotivated. At least that is 
how it ended up for us when we made the mistake. 
Most of these people want some kind of estimate of what they can earn so I 
would try to come up with that and put it in the ad. In addition, if you can 
pay a lower commission and add base pay some people are just not in a position 
to live commission only. I prefer it and I think the absolute best sales people 
do but you just might not get those people. Maybe consider doing without the 
first month and replace with a base as an option. I give my candidates the 
choice and the option to switch at 12 months. 
You might try LinkedIn. I have had some success recruiting there. Otherwise, if 
you like a salesperson that tries to sell you on a B2B service ask them if they 
know anyone interested in a sales position. They may be or they may know 
someone who is. That is how I hired my last one. I like copier sales people for 
their technical side. I like the phone book salespeople as they are 100% cold 
call with no support for leads. It also easy to make a case on the fact that 
they work for a dying company. Most of them are actually selling web pages so 
they are close to your business anyway. 


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 6:46 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




What's the best way to get a B2B sales guy? That's the overall point, but 
digging in deeper, what should I be asking for? I'm very tech oriented, very 
little sales. I'm needing someone that can do it on their own without guidance 
from me on what I want them to do. To me, sales sounds more like B2C or lower 
end services while business development sounds more B2B or higher end, but does 
the sales world reflect that? 

Where do I look? The #1 

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Mike Hammett]

It sounds like that $20 you bring in is yours for support and upstream, the 
rest is between the city and the customer. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Kurt Fankhauser"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:47:41 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber 


Can a WISP like us even compete in the city of Ammon? I assume that this fiber 
all goes to some sort of Central Office building and any carrier that wants to 
come into town can then run a line into this building and sell on the FTTH 
plant. So in reality the only providers that can compete is whoever owns the 
long-haul fiber coming into this town. And selling service in the $20/month 
price bracket to the customer and then having to turn around and pay the city 
of Ammon on top of that sounds like you'd be lucky to make a couple dollars per 
customer at all. 


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 5:05 AM, < fiber...@mail.com > wrote: 


Rob Genovesi wrote: 
> I despise over regulation but it could create a large enough barrier 
> to entry that only serious operators would enter the market and that 
> might prevent race to the bottom, at least for a little while. 
How do you define a serious operator and who gets to set the rules? 

I'd much rather have low barriers to entry and any downside that it brings. 
Generally speaking we need more competition, not less. 

A far larger long term threat than bottom of the barrel operators is market 
consolidation, due to the fact that the ISP business is very much a volume 
business where the winner can just outscale smaller players. 


> >> I'm sure spammers and DCMA violators will love it! 
> > 
> > How do you figure the above applies? 
> 
> That seems pretty obvious, DCMA violators will just keep jumping to 
> the next service provider any time their current provider is forced to 
> turn them off. 
That assumes there is an infinite supply of ISPs to chose from, which there 
clearly isn't. In other words, this is not a viable long term strategy, and 
most people are smart enough to figure that out and don't go down that road. 
Much easier to just use a VPN service than jumping ship every time you get a 
DMCA complaint. 

Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Lewis Bergman]

I think that is a great idea Ken.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:50 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Mike, you could try attending the Chamber of Commerce meetings, but
> that’s a long term approach, won’t reach a lot of the potential customers,
> and assumes the owner is a born salesperson which you say you aren’t.
>
>
>
> I’d take the approach of paying commissions to someone who is already in
> your target customers on a regular basis, plus probably advises them on
> communications purchase decisions.  Go visit 10 businesses you  would like
> as customers and ask who they pay to work on their computers and network.
> Watch for the nerdmobiles parked outside businesses you want to  target.
> One company will probably stand out.  Go make a deal with them to pay them
> commissions, plus explain the advantages to them of working with a local
> business where they have the cell number of the owner and they can work
> directly with someone with technical  knowledge rather than wait on hold
> with some script reader at the big phone company.
>
>
>
> For example, if I were trying to sell to small businesses in my hometown
> of Glen Ellyn (not where my WISP has service), there is a local company
> TMC2 that has done the legwork to get a local customer base.  You say that
> you are targeting DeKalb and Naperville, I’m sure there are similar
> companies there.  Unfortunately someone may already have deals with them.
> But it can’t hurt to ask.
>
>
>
> As far as finding someone with the right skills, my opinion has always
> been look at realtors, but right now the real estate market has picked up.
>  5 years ago you  could probably have found tons of them willing to give it
> a try.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 8:22 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
>
>
> Having actually paid the guy $10k a month for doing nothing and watching
> for a year as he answered phone calls we would have gotten the customer
> from anyway I would think when it actually happens you might feel
> differently. You can pay someone $13 to $15 per hour to do inside sales.
> IMHO you pay an outside sales rep to go get business you can't get by
> answering the phone. You can take a good salesperson and turn them to crap
> by paying them not to sell, which is what you will end up doing. Been
> there, done that. But, if you want to learn that mistake yourself go ahead.
> Maybe I am to "half glass empty" but of course, it is yours and you should
> definitely do what you want.
>
> In the end, we are all rats working the maze. If you put the cheese at the
> start of the maze, the maze never gets worked. That is what you do to a
> sales person with non expiring commissions. You move the cheese closer to
> the front of the maze after a while and every month it gets closer and
> closer until they just have to lay there and open their mouth. Limiting the
> time they receive it keeps the cheese nearer the end of the maze. And of
> course, they can get paid for a contract renewal so they can go back to
> that expiring commission and renew it and start the clock again. To each
> his own.
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:06 AM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation
> with a potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one
> management company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you
> wire the place do you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a
> term-deal?  I'm not sure, can you?
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People
>
>
>
> I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other
> than offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100
> each, I'm fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate
> deals, that's real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals,
> they wouldn't have chased that. If they want to work all day for a
> $30/month account, that $3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much.
> Tying the compensation to the value of the sale should incentivize most
> toward the higher dollar accounts.
>
> I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting
> paid forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't
> an issue. Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the
> customer stops paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them
> properly, I'm no longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops
> working because he's collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a
> new sales guy. If someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything
> in their power to do it.
>
>
> Then again, I'm 

Re: [AFMUG] FYI Cambium PTP doesn't sync with PMP

[Jon Langeler]

We do. Just thought I would try PTP in a small instance 

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Oct 28, 2016, at 6:44 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
> 
> Why no use a 900 ap and sm?
> 
> Gino A. Villarini
> @gvillarini
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Gino Villarini
> 
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
> 
> 
> On Oct 27, 2016, at 6:21 PM, Jon Langeler  wrote:
> 
>> Yeah. I never tried it before. It's not an awesome idea. But if the customer 
>> pays $1500 for the install, we thought we would try a PTP in their 
>> direction. 900MHz :-)
>> 
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 27, 2016, at 4:35 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>> 
>>> YeahI'm curious who/what led you to believe otherwise.
>>> 
>>> Did Cambium sales or support ever say that a PTP could sync with a PMP? 
>>> 
 On 10/27/2016 4:23 PM, George Skorup wrote:
 The other problem since the beginning of time with Canopy style PTPs is 
 that the master starts up in beaconing mode with a max range of like 120 
 miles and waits for a BHS reg attempt then does auto-ranging and shifts 
 the timing. So yeah, it's pretty much impossible.
 
> On 10/27/2016 3:18 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
> that's been true since the beginning of time.  
> 
> you can get it close with 50% downlink on the AP and then use the frame 
> calculator to match the air delay parameter to the BHS.  not easy at all 
> but you could probably get it to work.
> 
> your best bet is to use different bands for PMP and PTP tho.
> 
> -Sean
>  
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Jon Langeler 
>>  wrote:
>> I don't think their support department understands the concept of sync. 
>> But as of now we have given up on PTP products syncing 100% with PMP 
>> products. Oh well
>> 
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] New Network from Ground Up - How Would You Address It?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Create a $99.95/month "Gamer" package and tell the gamers that complain
that to fix their NAT they need to upgrade to the gamer package and then
put them on a public IP once they go to that package.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Jesse DuPont  wrote:

> That's where we're at, option 4. By default, we NAT everyone for v4. Those
> who call and complain about issues with the NAT (gaming, VoIP maybe, VPN
> sometimes), we move them to a dynamic routable v4 address. We're all PPPoE
> so this change is simple: change it in RADIUS, kick their session, back on
> with routable v4 address. All our SM's are bridged so the customer's router
> does the PPPoE session and gets the IPs directly. We do not charge
> customers who need a public, only those who need a STATIC.
> We also are 100% dual-stack throughout, with v6 prefix-delegation enabled
> at every site. Any router we sell has v6 enabled and is tested at the
> house. Any customer-owned existing router, if it supports v6 PD will also
> get a prefix if v6 is enabled on their router.
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
> On 10/27/16 7:56 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>
> You can do an option 4 HYBRID if you don't have enough IPV4 for each
> customer like me. About half my customers are on public V4 and the other
> half are Private 10.0.0.0 numbers and I plan on overlaying that with dual
> stack IPV6 and everyone will have public V6 assignment while only about
> half will have public v4 and the other half will have private v4
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
>> We are doing dual stack with IPv6 and IPv4 available on DHCP for each
>> customer.
>>
>> I have over 600 IPv4 assigned and about 80 IPv6 assigned currently, so
>> you can see how well that's going...
>>
>> I would love to just use IPv6, but there doesn't seem to be a good
>> solution for that currently.
>>
>> Which is sad because IPv6 has been out there for over a decade.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul Stewart
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 4:31 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New Network from Ground Up - How Would You Address
>> It?
>>
>> Dual stack and Ipv4 public addresses….
>>
>> > On Oct 26, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Sam Morris  wrote:
>> >
>> > If you were starting a new network from scratch, how would you do your
>> IP addressing?
>> >
>> > Option 1) ipv6 - Doesn't appear that everything on the Internet
>> supports pure v6, which would require...
>> >
>> > Option 2) ipv6 with NAT64 or dual stack (or whatever would be a patch
>> to make Option 1 work)... or
>> >
>> > Option 3) ipv4 with private IP addresses and a single public v4 address
>> at the edges (and use CGN for the calea stuff - CGN which evidently comes
>> with its own set of problems...)
>> >
>> > Or is there a better option that I'm not thinking about?
>> >
>> > Deciding among these seems like picking which presidential candidate to
>> vote for - They all stink, and trying to decide which one stinks the
>> least...
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Sam
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tower Cameras

[Kurt Fankhauser]

That camera I posted is PTZ over the POE and also has a heater so the lens
doesn't fog up. Draws about 15-20 watts on the POE.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 7:31 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller  wrote:

>
> One of my tower owners has been playing with this camera -
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/401101692425?_trksid=p2057872.
> m2749.l2649=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
>
> says it will even do PTZ over the POE.  It's on my "play with" list, if i
> ever get to my play with list
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Paul McCall 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 9:54 AM
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Tower Cameras
>
> We want to put a camera(s) at the top of a 400’ tower.  Best way to get
> 360 degree coverage?
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

[Ken Hohhof]

Mike, you could try attending the Chamber of Commerce meetings, but that’s a 
long term approach, won’t reach a lot of the potential customers, and assumes 
the owner is a born salesperson which you say you aren’t.

 

I’d take the approach of paying commissions to someone who is already in your 
target customers on a regular basis, plus probably advises them on 
communications purchase decisions.  Go visit 10 businesses you  would like as 
customers and ask who they pay to work on their computers and network.  Watch 
for the nerdmobiles parked outside businesses you want to  target.  One company 
will probably stand out.  Go make a deal with them to pay them commissions, 
plus explain the advantages to them of working with a local business where they 
have the cell number of the owner and they can work directly with someone with 
technical  knowledge rather than wait on hold with some script reader at the 
big phone company.

 

For example, if I were trying to sell to small businesses in my hometown of 
Glen Ellyn (not where my WISP has service), there is a local company TMC2 that 
has done the legwork to get a local customer base.  You say that you are 
targeting DeKalb and Naperville, I’m sure there are similar companies there.  
Unfortunately someone may already have deals with them.  But it can’t hurt to 
ask.

 

As far as finding someone with the right skills, my opinion has always been 
look at realtors, but right now the real estate market has picked up.  5 years 
ago you  could probably have found tons of them willing to give it a try.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

 

Having actually paid the guy $10k a month for doing nothing and watching for a 
year as he answered phone calls we would have gotten the customer from anyway I 
would think when it actually happens you might feel differently. You can pay 
someone $13 to $15 per hour to do inside sales. IMHO you pay an outside sales 
rep to go get business you can't get by answering the phone. You can take a 
good salesperson and turn them to crap by paying them not to sell, which is 
what you will end up doing. Been there, done that. But, if you want to learn 
that mistake yourself go ahead. Maybe I am to "half glass empty" but of course, 
it is yours and you should definitely do what you want.

In the end, we are all rats working the maze. If you put the cheese at the 
start of the maze, the maze never gets worked. That is what you do to a sales 
person with non expiring commissions. You move the cheese closer to the front 
of the maze after a while and every month it gets closer and closer until they 
just have to lay there and open their mouth. Limiting the time they receive it 
keeps the cheese nearer the end of the maze. And of course, they can get paid 
for a contract renewal so they can go back to that expiring commission and 
renew it and start the clock again. To each his own.

 

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:06 AM CBB - Jay Fuller  > wrote:

 

I'd love to wire up whole strip malls to and have had this conversation with a 
potential sales guy - but how do you get access? is there one management 
company or one land owner you have to get through?  Once you wire the place do 
you own your own infrastructure? ( no  ) ,  can you get a term-deal?  I'm not 
sure, can you?

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Hammett   

To: af@afmug.com   

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 7:58 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Finding Sales People

 

I'm not in a position to offer a base pay that would do anything other than 
offend. If they want to hook up everyone in a strip mall, paying $100 each, I'm 
fine with that. Each deal is $100, but there's seven separate deals, that's 
real money whereas if I discourage them from lower deals, they wouldn't have 
chased that. If they want to work all day for a $30/month account, that 
$3/month residual is all theirs. I'm not out much. Tying the compensation to 
the value of the sale should incentivize most toward the higher dollar accounts.

I figured the long term residual would be self-fulfilling. If I'm getting paid 
forever from the customer, paying the sales guy forever really isn't an issue. 
Once the ROI is done, I'm in an even better position. If the customer stops 
paying me because the sales guys wasn't taking care of them properly, I'm no 
longer paying the sales guy for that account. If he stops working because he's 
collecting $10k/month for doing nothing, fine. I get a new sales guy. If 
someone truly wants to do nothing, they'll do everything in their power to do 
it.


Then again, I'm not getting any bites, so maybe I have the wrong approach.



I have done regular LinkedIn posts and even shared those posts to the greater 
Chicago area B2B and sales groups, 

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Can a WISP like us even compete in the city of Ammon? I assume that this
fiber all goes to some sort of Central Office building and any carrier that
wants to come into town can then run a line into this building and sell on
the FTTH plant. So in reality the only providers that can compete is
whoever owns the long-haul fiber coming into this town. And selling service
in the $20/month price bracket to the customer and then having to turn
around and pay the city of Ammon on top of that sounds like you'd be lucky
to make a couple dollars per customer at all.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 5:05 AM,  wrote:

> Rob Genovesi wrote:
> > I despise over regulation but it could create a large enough barrier
> > to entry that only serious operators would enter the market and that
> > might prevent race to the bottom, at least for a little while.
>   How do you define a serious operator and who gets to set the rules?
>
>   I'd much rather have low barriers to entry and any downside that it
> brings. Generally speaking we need more competition, not less.
>
>   A far larger long term threat than bottom of the barrel operators is
> market consolidation, due to the fact that the ISP business is very much a
> volume business where the winner can just outscale smaller players.
>
>
> > >> I'm sure spammers and DCMA violators will love it!
> > >
> > > How do you figure the above applies?
> >
> > That seems pretty obvious, DCMA violators will just keep jumping to
> > the next service provider any time their current provider is forced to
> > turn them off.
>   That assumes there is an infinite supply of ISPs to chose from, which
> there clearly isn't. In other words, this is not a viable long term
> strategy, and most people are smart enough to figure that out and don't go
> down that road. Much easier to just use a VPN service than jumping ship
> every time you get a DMCA complaint.
>
> Jared
>

Re: [AFMUG] IPV6 deploymernt

[Lewis Bergman]

It appears S3 doesn't not support V6 while Route53, the DNS does. So..kind
of getting there.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:05 AM Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> yes
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess** –** Network Solution Engineer – Consultant *
>
> MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant
>  –
> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
>
>
>
> For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
>
> Radio Frequiency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
>
> Office: 314-735-0270 <(314)%20735-0270>
>
> E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:04 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] IPV6 deploymernt
>
>
>
> That's just the storage, right, not actual compute?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
>
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 27, 2016 5:19:03 PM
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] IPV6 deploymernt
>
> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/now-available-ipv6-support-for-amazon-s3/
>
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2016 2:49 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> Anyone in AWS won't, given AWS's poor to no IPv6 support.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Jason Wilson" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 27, 2016 2:48:07 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] IPV6 deploymernt
>
> Is sonar the only CRM that supports IPV6?
>
>
>
> I know currently Visp Does not.
>
>
> Jason Wilson
>
> Remotely Located
>
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
>
> 530-651-1736
>
> 530-748-9608 Cell
>
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Simon Westlake 
> wrote:
>
> What do you mean, 'even Sonar'? We aren't chopped liver!
>
> On 10/27/2016 2:12 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
> I would totally agree here. We have deployed IPv6 quite a bit for clients,
> our networks etc.  However, the major issue is the hosting companies, most
> big guys, google, amazon, etc all support IPv6, heck even Sonar does now!
> Hahah, but until the cost of IPv4 addresses is so high that no one; even
> the major guys can afford it, IPv6 deployment will keep stalling.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess** –** Network Solution Engineer – Consultant *
>
> MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant
>  –
> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
>
>
>
> For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
>
> Radio Frequiency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
>
> Office: 314-735-0270
>
> E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Paul Stewart
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 2:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] IPV6 deploymernt
>
>
>
> Actually in my opinion what we need is better IPv6 adoption in general and
> this becomes a non-problem quickly :)
>
>
>
> I know .. good theory … and “we” are getting better though …. a lot of
> providers have gotten their heads out of the clouds in the past few years
> alone ….
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2016, at 2:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>
>
> What we all need, is a low cost solution to stop needing more V4 IPs.
>
>
>
> If it is CGN at the edge with a limited pool of V4, so be it.
>
>
>
> But I want a solid solution that can be trusted.
>
> And I want and expert to come drop it into my company.
>
>
>
> *From:* Paul Stewart
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:23 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] IPV6