Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City Fiber

ame > Travis! > > -Original Message- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson > Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 9:37 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: [AFMUG] Ammon City Fiber > > Hi, > > Here is the new fiber network that has been developed over

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City Fiber

To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Ammon City Fiber Hi, Here is the new fiber network that has been developed over the last 6 years in a suburb of Idaho Falls. A quick breakdown: Fiber install = $3,000 to the homeowner, or financed at $15/month as a bond against the property for 20 years. Fiber

[AFMUG] Ammon City Fiber

Hi, Here is the new fiber network that has been developed over the last 6 years in a suburb of Idaho Falls. A quick breakdown: Fiber install = $3,000 to the homeowner, or financed at $15/month as a bond against the property for 20 years. Fiber transport for 100Mbps = $25/month to the city

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

It kind of depends on what the majority of people in the entire country thinks ought to be standard levels of infrastructure. If you live in the country, which things are you willing to not have just because there aren't as many people to distribute the cost for? Certainly street lights aren't

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Lewis Bergman wrote: > I rail against these types of projects not because they typically fail, > which they do,   That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this up with some sources? >>>Do you mind enlightening us with all the tales of success and glory?

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

That only takes a little while when you very good at it On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 9:07 PM Jaime Solorza wrote: > Don't mayors keep busy groping, sextng, using private email servers , > building walls, servicing council members wives and collecting money from > speed

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Not yet, they're still in training. Have to work your way up from the speed traps and voter polling place harassment. On Oct 31, 2016 9:07 PM, "Jaime Solorza" wrote: > Don't mayors keep busy groping, sextng, using private email servers , > building walls, servicing

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Don't mayors keep busy groping, sextng, using private email servers , building walls, servicing council members wives and collecting money from speed traps? How could you be bored Lewis? On Oct 31, 2016 5:27 PM, "Lewis Bergman" wrote: > I'll reply only because I'm

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

I'll reply only because I'm bored. On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 5:15 PM wrote: > Lewis Bergman wrote: > >>> I rail against these types of projects not because they typically > fail, which they do, > >> That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this > up with

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 4:15 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Lewis Bergman wrote: I rail against these types of projects not because they typically fail, which they do, That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Lewis Bergman wrote: >>> I rail against these types of projects not because they typically fail, >>> which they do, >>  That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this up >>with some sources? >Do you mind enlightening us with all the tales of success and glory? Excellent

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

rted for leaving his dogs outside in the winter. Those > dogs had never been in the house in their entire lives. > > Odd study in human behavior. I think it all boils down to selfishness and > lack of empathy. > > > > *From:* Jason McKemie > *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

. I think it all boils down to selfishness and lack of empathy. *From:* Jason McKemie *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 3:30 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Who cares? Really...who cares. They chose to live somewhere without internet. You want internet,

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

down to selfishness and lack of empathy. From: Jason McKemie Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 3:30 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Who cares? Really...who cares. They chose to live somewhere without internet. You want internet, move somewhere with it. Your

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

down to selfishness and lack of empathy. From: Jason McKemie Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 3:30 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Who cares? Really...who cares. They chose to live somewhere without internet. You want internet, move somewhere with it. Your job isn't there

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

> > Who cares? Really...who cares. They chose to live somewhere without > internet. You want internet, move somewhere with it. Your job isn't there? > OK, guess you get to use internet when you visit the kids in the big city. > So you don't have internet. Who gives a damn? I am pretty sure oxygen

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 11:23 AM wrote: > Lewis Bergman wrote: > > I rail against these types of projects not because they typically fail, > which they do, > That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this > up with some sources? > Do you mind

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

I believe so. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 11:53:31 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG]

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Do they still have free WiFi from the streetlights in town? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 11:48 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber RMU fixed wireless is largely dead. I tried picking it up when

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

No doubt, but I believe we were discussing public fiber networks. Jared > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 at 6:26 PM > From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > No doubt all the muni-wifi projects

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

" <af...@kwisp.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 11:45:29 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Municipal utilities are probably best off deploying fiber because it fits their model of infrastructure that you can install and forget for 20+ years. Something I think t

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 11:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber No doubt all the muni-wifi projects failed. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 10:23 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

No doubt all the muni-wifi projects failed. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 10:23 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Lewis Bergman wrote: I rail against these types of projects not because they typically fail, which

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Lewis Bergman wrote: > I rail against these types of projects not because they typically fail, which > they do, That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this up with some sources? Could you also shine some light on those federal bailout programs you say are paying

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

31, 2016, 8:16 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> In this case Lewis, I can assure you that Roger does indeed >> comprehend/understand it. He is one of us when it comes to the technical >> side of things. >> >> *From:* Lewis Bergman >> *Sent:* Monday, O

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

hen it comes to the technical > side of things. > > *From:* Lewis Bergman > *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 6:54 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > When does pricing get so high and service get so terrible that government &

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

In this case Lewis, I can assure you that Roger does indeed comprehend/understand it. He is one of us when it comes to the technical side of things. From: Lewis Bergman Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 6:54 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber When does pricing get so

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

When does pricing get so high and service get so terrible that government has to step in to provide a service that is not integral to any life, limb, or pursuit of happiness? Don't get me wrong, if the citizens of whatever jurisdiction want to succumb to the wiles of some huckster (yea kids, I

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

It is a very political discussion that will likely never result in any form of consensus, especially among this group because of financial interests involved, as to whether or not government should be involved in building fiber networks. However, from my perspective (and UTOPIA Fiber's), interest

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016, 6:19 PM wrote: > Lewis Bergman wrote: > > At the root is that you somehow believe government involvement is always > good. > Now don't you go putting words in my mouth! > I never said such a thing. > You have made a case for it I do not think

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

you need fiber? Everybody can get > hughesnet. > > > The county should run water and gas first. > > > -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com > Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 4:52 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Chuck writes: > You have wireless internet why do you need fiber? Everybody can get > hughesnet. Have you actually used satellite internet? The punishment for advocating that position is to have to use only satellite internet u tik you cry uncle. :) > The county should run water and gas

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

> Electricity costs 4 x NG. Distribution costs money. New infrastructure costs money. The price of commodities fluctuates. Is it still four times cheaper when you factor in all that? Don't ask me, I'm not a gas guy. > What does more of the people, gas or fiber? Any reason you can't

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Lewis Bergman wrote: > At the root is that you somehow believe government involvement is always good. Now don't you go putting words in my mouth! I never said such a thing. I do not think government involvement is always good. Neither do I believe that government involvement is always

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

You have wireless internet why do you need fiber? Everybody can get hughesnet. The county should run water and gas first. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 4:52 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Chuck wrote: Why

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Electricity costs 4 x NG. What does more of the people, gas or fiber? -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 4:52 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Chuck wrote: Why should the county not choose to build out natural gas

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Chuck wrote: > Why should the county not choose to build out natural gas to everyone? > That would save them all lots of money, that would be a real benefit. > Why fiber not gas? Because gas can easily be substituted for an o

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Chuck wrote: > Why should the county not choose to build out natural gas to everyone? That > would save them all lots of money, that would be a real benefit. Why fiber > not gas? Because gas can easily be substituted for an other form of energy, like electricity? And everybody's already got

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

al Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 4:48 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Chuck writes: Unless you chose the federal cost of money rate, it has been about 1% for 13 years and counting. My bad. I've never taken RUS money so I wouldn't know.

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Chuck writes: > Unless you chose the federal cost of money rate, it has been about 1% for 13 > years and counting. My bad. I've never taken RUS money so I wouldn't know. Can you point me in the right direction? Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

] Ammon City fiber Chuck wrote: Why does it have to be open? It does not have to be, but if one party offers dark fiber rental and the other does not, then they are not competing directly on all levels. Open access also opens up the market to a different level of competition, which may or may

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Unless you chose the federal cost of money rate, it has been about 1% for 13 years and counting. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 1:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Lewis Bergman wrote: Chuck mentioned 1% rates

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

At the root is that you somehow believe government involvement is always good. History doesn't back you up, especially where broadband is concerned. Government, most any government, does a pretty poor job if what it should be doing much less tasks it has no business doing. You sound like someone

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Chuck wrote: > Why does it have to be open? It does not have to be, but if one party offers dark fiber rental and the other does not, then they are not competing directly on all levels. Open access also opens up the market to a different level of competition, which may or may not be a goal.

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Lewis Bergman wrote: > Chuck mentioned 1% rates for RUS. Definitely below market. Here are the current RUS interest rates: http://www.rd.usda.gov/programs-services/services/rural-utilities-loan-interest-rates#BaseRates Looks like a 30 year bond rate is 2.6-4.425%. > Are you saying that

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

ww.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ---------- > *From: *"Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Saturday, October 29, 2016 10:41:36 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > Compound question. &

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

October 29, 2016 10:41:36 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Compound question. They open up market to content providers and others that do not own infrastructure in a given area. Similar to the whole CLEC idea 20 years ago. But this time the facility owners are not forced to share,

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:48 PM wrote: > Lewis Bergman Wrote: > > First, a subsidized rate below market is still cost. > Who said anything about below market rates? Municipal bond rates are set > by the market. > Chuck mentioned 1% rates for RUS. Definitely below market. If

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Lewis Bergman Wrote: > First, a subsidized rate below market is still cost. Who said anything about below market rates? Municipal bond rates are set by the market. > I have seen the size of Comcast. And concatenation uses its own money not > mine. I beg to differ. It's not like Comcast

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

First, a subsidized rate below market is still cost. Maybe to those who do accounting the way the government does it is zero cost. If the rate you could get us 4% below the bond rate you just subsidized (or spent) 4%. I really don'tunderstand why that is difficult to comprehend. I have seen the

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

I am getting >80% and it is still growing. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 4:00 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Depends on how confident you are in your market projections. Some would say build the temporary solut

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Ken Hohhof wrote: > Depends on how confident you are in your market projections. True. However, if we were to spend a trillion dollars on wiring the nation, I think we could spare a few dollars to hire some guys with some applicable skills that could get it right, on average. Internet

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

; From: ch...@wbmfg.com > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > If big money is being spent, spend it on fiber. He who brings fiber to the > home wins the whole game. Been saying that for years. > > -Original Message- > From: fiber...@mail

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

? -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of fiber...@mail.com Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 4:48 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Bill Prince wrote: > We are now debating this same thing with regard to internet service, > and further w

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Rory Conaway wrote: > Long term, the result of the government proving any kind of service and > destroying the free-enterprise or a > competitive market Hold up! Before we take the above as a given, we'll have to establish a few facts. - will government proving *any* kind of service

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

If big money is being spent, spend it on fiber. He who brings fiber to the home wins the whole game. Been saying that for years. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 3:48 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Bill Prince

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Bill Prince wrote: > We are now debating this same thing with regard to internet service, and > further whether it should or should not be provided over fiber. > > I sit firmly on the fence on that last one. I'm not. I'm firmly in the NO camp. Fiber is just a tool. There is nothing magical

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Lewis Bergman wrote: > Government is rarely small at the level where it competes with an enterprise, > be it local or otherwise.  You are kidding me, right? Have you seen the size of Comcast? > My apologies. Railing  against government as a solution instead of the pariah > it normally

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber It kind of depends on what the majority of people in the entire country thinks ought to be standard levels of infrastructure. If you live in the country, which things are you willing to not have just because there aren't as many people to distribute the cost

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

It kind of depends on what the majority of people in the entire country thinks ought to be standard levels of infrastructure. If you live in the country, which things are you willing to not have just because there aren't as many people to distribute the cost for? Certainly street lights

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 3:18 PM wrote: > Lewis Bergman wrote: > > I understand the attractiveness of the big government to solve a problem. > In all fairness, we are talking about fairly small projects done by > local governments. It's not like there is a Big Bad Fiber Network

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Ken Hohhof wrote: > One issue is cherry picking, if a fiber deployment will only serve the > easiest or most lucrative customers, > that tells existing providers they should switch to differential pricing > where the less desirable customers > have to pay more. Or just shut down when the

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

can’t decipher “dem to be a touchy”. *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman *Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 2:49 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber I understand the attractiveness of the big government to solve a problem. It just

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Lewis Bergman wrote: > I understand the attractiveness of the big government to solve a problem. In all fairness, we are talking about fairly small projects done by local governments. It's not like there is a Big Bad Fiber Network being built by the Feds. > It just always that is a fairly

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

“dem to be a touchy”. > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman > *Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 2:49 PM > > > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > > > I understand the attractiveness of the big government

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

OK, you need better auto correct. I can’t decipher “dem to be a touchy”. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 2:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber I understand the attractiveness of the big government

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

a wedding cake, what happened to that nice bakery I used to buy muffins at? -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of fiber...@mail.com Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 2:48 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Chuck, Thanks for taking

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

I understand the attractiveness of the big government to solve a problem. It just always that is a fairly poor short term solution and an even worse long term one that always serves to stifle innovationand extend the life of entities that should already be out of business. I live in a rural area

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Chuck, Thanks for taking the time to reply. > I am not wholly against muni fiber systems in concept. But harm to existing > service providers must be mitigated. A publicly funded fiber network is years in the making. It should not come as a surprise to any local business. WISPs are

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Sounds like someone should read Atlas Shrugged > > Why not. If the government wants to help commerce, it should help > commerce. > If they can pay farmers for not farming, they should pay WISPS they injure. > If they wipe out service providers they should be forced to buy them out. > Just like

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

> I'd just like to see how the whole cost structure comes out $5 per MST port (12k MSTs total) $100 per NAP port (2.6k NAPs total) $3500 per bckbone fiber strand Prices are 40% higher for small (<40k) or low density (<80 subs per mile) deployments. Google pays $208k per month.

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

, October 29, 2016 1:34 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber I am not wholly against muni fiber systems in concept. But harm to existing service providers must be mitigated. They must be allowed to connect for free and be given some kind of pioneers preference such as no MRC

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 12:28 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber What's stopping the WISP from using the same government fiber to provide service? They've already got the advantage as they are established and have the customers

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

- From: Roger Timmerman To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Most of what Chuck says is true about the first phase of UTOPIA. It was a disaster. Some of it was their fault, some of it wasn't. For example, AT was actual

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

What's stopping the WISP from using the same government fiber to provide service? They've already got the advantage as they are established and have the customers. Cost to connect, MRC costs while you build to break even, loss of margin and ARPU per customer. But yes, they compete with

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

> Great if I am a provider of services, and then I can come into your area, > compete with you wireless system, using guvmnt provided fiber... What's stopping the WISP from using the same government fiber to provide service? They've already got the advantage as they are established and have

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

to everyone. I see zero downside. The nation was just coming out of the great depression when this program started. How is this any different than the SBA? From: Lewis Bergman Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 10:48 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber A loan at sub market

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

11:33 AM *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber I think that the Rural Electrification Administration (REA, later renamed the RUS) was probably the best government program ever created. You could borrow at 1% or 2%, buil

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

turday, October 29, 2016 11:33 AM > > > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > > > I think that the Rural Electrification Administration (REA, later renamed > the RUS) was probably the best government program ever created. You could > borrow a

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Good thing they didn’t loan people money to build hotels or casinos. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 11:33 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber I think that the Rural Electrification Administration (REA

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

t; > *From:* Lewis Bergman > *Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 10:11 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > > I am confused. I don't know why anyone should get government money for not > doing something or being unable to compete. Of course once the

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

29, 2016 10:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber I am confused. I don't know why anyone should get government money for not doing something or being unable to compete. Of course once the government gets involved in subsidizing anything it skews the whole market so it's

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

i and govt fiber systems > should > do the same thing for the WISPS they are hurting... > > > > -Original Message- > From: fiber...@mail.com > Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 7:34 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > C

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

.com Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 7:34 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Chuck, Do you feel government built/owned last mile open acces dark fiber networks are a detriment to the market and/or compete with private companies? Jared Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 at 11:

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Chuck, Do you feel government built/owned last mile open acces dark fiber networks are a detriment to the market and/or compete with private companies? Jared > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 at 11:37 PM > From: ch...@wbmfg.com > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fi

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

How much of the first bond is left to pay? Jared   Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 at 12:42 AM From: "Roger Timmerman" <timmer...@gmail.com> To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber As far as the first bond, the cities are covering it for now.  We could be c

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

it then it pays for itself. Of course airports receive huge amounts of federal money. Most do not stand on their own. From: Roger Timmerman Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 3:38 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber A couple of comments below from my perspective... -Roger On Fri

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

iday, October 28, 2016 at 8:37 PM > From: "Roger Timmerman" <timmer...@gmail.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > Most of what Chuck says is true about the first phase of UTOPIA. It was a > disaster. Some of it was their fault, some of it

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

A couple of comments below from my perspective... -Roger On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:17 PM, wrote: > Chuck wrote: > > They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network. > What alternate reality do these people live in? > *That was never likely to happen because

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

From: fiber...@mail.com by government. Arguably water and sewer. I have lived in cities with two power companies. But all the rest should be done by commercial providers. Why do you draw the line at the utilities and the infrastructure you listed? What makes them so special? Duplication

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Chuck wrote: > They honestly expected Qwest and Comcast to ride their network. What alternate reality do these people live in? > I personally am philosophically opposed to governments providing goods or > services that private companies can do. Obviously streets are better done > by

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

I was wondering the same thing. I am guessing the cities are eating it. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 2:08 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Thank you Roger for that detailed write up. What happened to the first

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

essage- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 2:08 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Thank you Roger for that detailed write up. What happened to the first phase bond? Jared Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 at 8:37 PM From: "Roger Timmerman" <

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Thank you Roger for that detailed write up. What happened to the first phase bond? Jared     Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 at 8:37 PM From: "Roger Timmerman" <timmer...@gmail.com> To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Most of what Chuck says is true about

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

t; > > > -----Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 1:49 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber > > Chuck McCown wrote: > >> Utopia tried that method in Brigham City and it didn't work so well (for a >

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

unfair advantages. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 1:49 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Chuck McCown wrote: Utopia tried that method in Brigham City and it didn't work so well (for a variety of reasons). Did UTOPIA

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Well, the mayor and city council said it didn’t work so well. This was 4 years ago or so. I was there multiple times by invitation. From: Roger Timmerman Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:29 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Not sure why anyone would say

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Hi, That is correct... all the providers bring their connections into the main NOC for the city (brand new facility). So you have to get transport there, but then you are billing the customer directly for whatever services they want from you. It looks like 100Mbps residential will be around

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

t;lists.wavel...@gmail.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:47:41 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber Can a WISP like us even compete in the city of Ammon? I assume that this fiber all goes to some sort of Central Office building and any carrier that wants to co

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Can a WISP like us even compete in the city of Ammon? I assume that this fiber all goes to some sort of Central Office building and any carrier that wants to come into town can then run a line into this building and sell on the FTTH plant. So in reality the only providers that can compete is

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