[agi] AGI Preschool: sketch of an evaluation framework for early stage AGI systems aimed at human-level, roughly humanlike AGI

2008-12-19 Thread Ben Goertzel
for someone... ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org "I intend to live forever, or die trying." -- Groucho Marx --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/ar

Re: [agi] Creativity and Rationality (was: Re: Should I get a PhD?)

2008-12-19 Thread Ben Goertzel
> > In my opinion you are being too generous and your generosity is being > taken advantage of. That is quite possible; it's certainly happened before... > > As well as trying to be nice to Mike, you have to bear list quality in > mind and decide whether his ramblings are of some benefit to all

Re: [agi] Creativity and Rationality (was: Re: Should I get a PhD?)

2008-12-19 Thread Ben Goertzel
had some mutual colleagues in the past who favored such a style of discourse ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Pei Wang wrote: > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Ben Goertzel wrote: > > > > IMHO, Mike Tintner is not often rude, and is not exactly a "troll" > b

Re: [agi] Creativity and Rationality (was: Re: Should I get a PhD?)

2008-12-19 Thread Ben Goertzel
tps://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > --- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > M

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-18 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:47 PM, Mike Tintner wrote: > Ben:I don't think there's any lack of creativity in the AGI world ... and > I think it's pretty clear that rationality and creativity work together in > all really good scientific work.Creativity is about coming up with new > ideas. Rational

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-18 Thread Ben Goertzel
thx for the reply! *** Anyway, to answer you simply - conflict is v. fruitful, if you embrace it. (Jerry Rubin expounded this POV well in Do It! ) *** I've always been more of an Abbie Hoffman guy, but ... sure... *** > More specifically, AGI-ers -as I have in part explained - are almost > per

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-18 Thread Ben Goertzel
ambitions (which is >> understandable/ obviously v. risky) but ALSO its simpler ambitions, i.e. >> making even the smallest progress towards *general* as opposed to >> *specialist/narrow* intelligence, producing a ,machine, say, that could >> cross just two or three domains

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-18 Thread Ben Goertzel
erm AGI & its more grandiose ambitions (which is >> understandable/ obviously v. risky) but ALSO its simpler ambitions, i.e. >> making even the smallest progress towards *general* as opposed to >> *specialist/narrow* intelligence, producing a ,machine, say, that could >> cross jus

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-18 Thread Ben Goertzel
dictment of the AGI field? > > > > > -- > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <ht

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 6:12 PM, YKY (Yan King Yin) < generic.intellige...@gmail.com> wrote: > > "If...you want a non-research career, a Ph.D. is definitely not for you." > > I want to be either an entrepreneur or a researcher... it's hard to > decide. What does AGI need most? Further research,

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > > Modify Your Subscription: > > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > >

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
;s my current > reasoning... > > > --- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
Well, no... actually I think this is extremely bad advice ;-) On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Steve Richfield wrote: > Yan, > > Your quest incorporates some questionable presumptions, that you will > literally be "betting your (future) life on". > > 1. That AGI as presently conceived won't be j

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 12:29 PM, YKY (Yan King Yin) < generic.intellige...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I got my PhD there in 1989 in math, not AI > > Let me see... you were about 22 in 1989? I was still an undergrad at > that age... Yep... I was already interested in working on AGI, but didn't fee

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
people--Ben Goertzel, Pei Wang, and now Peter de Blanc. Is > this just a coincidence? > Joshua > > On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Ben Goertzel wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>> >>> Can I start the PhD directly without getting the MS first? >>&

[agi] Re: [OpenCog] Re: What is the role of MOSES in Novamente and Open Cog?-----was---- internship opportunity at Google (Mountain View, CA)

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
> > You have interpreted my below post in an overly defensive manner. > > > Sorry ... I'm dealing with some other frustrating things this morning so maybe the frustratedness unintentionally rubbed off on this email exchange ... > > > > (Are you saying Novamente is not scaleable to human level w

Re: [agi] Re: [OpenCog] Re: What is the role of MOSES in Novamente and Open Cog?-----was---- internship opportunity at Google (Mountain View, CA)

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
little advantage of all the rich, complex > hierarchical > > and generalization knowledge contained in the hypergraph --- although it > was > > clear to me that their would be ways in which it could be modified to do > > so. > > > > > > > -----

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
> > Can I start the PhD directly without getting the MS first? > You can start a PhD without having an MS first, but you'll still need to take all the coursework corresponding to the MS I don't personally know of any university that lets you go directly from a BS/BA to a PhD without doing a coup

Re: [agi] Re: [OpenCog] Re: What is the role of MOSES in Novamente and Open Cog?-----was---- internship opportunity at Google (Mountain View, CA)

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
such explanations for its ideas. So I'd > be v. interested). > -- > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/

Re: [agi] CopyCat

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
> > Do you mean that examples that Hofstadter/Mitchell used in their > papers for CopyCat did not in fact work on their codebase? I remember > downloading second copycat implementations (in Java IIRC), it seemed > to be working. Besides, they don't claim anything grandiose for this > model, and it

Re: [agi] CopyCat

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
I happened to use CopyCat in a university AI class I taught years ago, so I got some experience with it It was **great** as a teaching tool, but I wouldn't say it shows anything about what can or can't work for AGI, really... ben On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Ben Goertzel wrote:

Re: [agi] Should I get a PhD?

2008-12-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
ww.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org "I intend to live forev

[agi] Re: [OpenCog] RE:What is the role of MOSES in Novamente and Open Cog?-----was---- internship opportunity at Google (Mountain View, CA)

2008-12-16 Thread Ben Goertzel
; --- > > agi > > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: htt

Re: Why? (was Re: [agi] references on hypercomputation?)

2008-12-16 Thread Ben Goertzel
en On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Tim Freeman wrote: > >From: "Ben Goertzel" > > > >I'm considering writing a paper on hypercomputation, ... > > If I understand right, hypercomputation is theoretical computer > science arguments of the form "If I

Re: [agi] Transfer learning

2008-12-16 Thread Ben Goertzel
tbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org "I intend to live forever, or die trying." -- Groucho Marx -

Re: [agi] references on hypercomputation?

2008-12-16 Thread Ben Goertzel
original > > before writing the paper... > > > > thx > > ben > > > > > > > > -- > > Ben Goertzel, PhD > > CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC > > Director of Research, SIAI > > b...@goertzel.org > > > > "I inten

[agi] references on hypercomputation?

2008-12-16 Thread Ben Goertzel
I'm considering writing a paper on hypercomputation, and am wondering if anyone on this list could suggest a good bibliography on the topic ... I want to read up on the latest literature to be sure my thoughts are original before writing the paper... thx ben -- Ben Goertzel, Ph

[agi] Transfer learning

2008-12-16 Thread Ben Goertzel
I just read an interesting (somewhat mathy) paper on transfer learning, and put the link here http://www.opencog.org/wiki/Transfer_Learning ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org "I intend to live forever, or die t

Re: [agi] Images read from human brain-Old ground, new thoughts?

2008-12-12 Thread Ben Goertzel
e brain activities and reconstructed the images of Roman letters and other > figures, succeeding in recreating optically received images. > > (Dec. 11, 2008) > > > --- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.c

Re: [agi] Vector processing and AGI

2008-12-12 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, >> > There isn't much that an MIMD machine can do better than a similar-sized >> > SIMD machine. >> >> Hey, that's just not true. >> >> There are loads of math theorems disproving this assertion... > > > Oops, I left out the presumed adjective "real-world". Of course there are > countless diop

Re: [agi] Seeking CYC critiques PS

2008-12-12 Thread Ben Goertzel
> > Visual images, in particular, uniquely provide *isomorphic maps of objects.* > Well, no. The congenitally blind also create internal isomorphic maps of objects Vision is a rich source of information, but it is does not in itself provide isomorphic maps of object -- it provides messy, noisy d

Re: [agi] Vector processing and AGI

2008-12-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, > There isn't much that an MIMD machine can do better than a similar-sized > SIMD machine. Hey, that's just not true. There are loads of math theorems disproving this assertion... >> >> OO and generic design patterns do buy you *something* ... > > > OO is often impossible to vectorize. The

[agi] Vector processing and AGI

2008-12-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Steve wrote: > Bit#3: Did Ben realize that the prospective emergence of array processors > (e.g. as I have been promoting) would obsolete much of his present > work, because its structure isn't vectorizable, so he is in effect betting > on continued stagnation in processor architecture, and may in

[agi] First AGI Summer School, in Xiamen, China

2008-12-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
s cost money to attend: we would have liked to be able to offer it for free, but the funds to pay the faculty has to come from somewhere, and grant funding for AGI is generally hard to come by...) -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL

[agi] Empathic virtual agents ;-)

2008-12-08 Thread Ben Goertzel
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/12/08/virtual-human-empathy.html -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I intend to live forever, or die trying." -- Groucho Marx --- agi Archi

[agi] Novamente and Hugo de Garis in the japanese media ;-)

2008-12-08 Thread Ben Goertzel
http://robot.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/column/2008/12/08/1489.html --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id

Re: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?)

2008-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
for other neurons. > > -- Matt Mahoney, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > --- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: https://

Re: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?)

2008-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
een any explanation of how changes in gene expression in a > neuron's nucleus would store memories, even given the knowledge that the > epigenome can store information. > > > > If there is such an explanation, either now or in the future, I would > welcome hearing it

Re: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?)

2008-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
>> agi >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ >> Modify Your Subscription: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > > ---

Re: [agi] Seeking CYC critiques

2008-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
erts could rapidly >>>> extend the Cyc KB without Cycorp ontological engineers having to intervene. >>>> A Cycorp paper describing its KRAKEN system is here. >>>> >>>> I would be glad to answer questions about Cycorp and Cyc technology to >>>> the best

Re: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?)

2008-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Terry and Ben, > > > > I never implied anything that could be considered a "memory" at a conscious > level is stored at just one synapse, but all the discussions I have heard of > learning in various brain science books and lect

Re: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?)

2008-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
> > I know you're just playing here but it would be easy to empirically test > this. Does junk DNA change between birth and death? Something tells me we > would have discovered something that significant a long time ago. > > Terren well, loads of mutations occur in nuclear DNA between birth and

Re: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?)

2008-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
es: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ >> Modify Your Subscription: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > > ---

Re: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?)

2008-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
>>> Implication for neuroscientists proposing to build a WBE (whole brain >>> emulation): the resolution you need may now have to include all the >>> DNA in every neuron. Any bets on when they will have the resolution >>> to do that? >> >> No bets here. But they are proposing that elements ar

Re: [agi] Lamarck Lives!(?)

2008-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
; RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "

Re: >> RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-12-02 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi Hector, >> You may say the hypothesis of neural hypercomputing valid in the sense >> that it helps guide you to interesting, falsifiable theories. That's >> fine. But, then you must admit that the hypothesis of souls could be >> valid in the same sense, right? It could guide some other peop

Re: >> RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-12-02 Thread Ben Goertzel
the >>> number >> >>> of subspaces that could be represented with a given number, say 100 >>> billion, >> >>> of nodes --- or that the minute changes in boundaries, or the occasional >> >>> difference in tipping points t

Re: >> RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-12-01 Thread Ben Goertzel
> If two theories give identical predictions under all circumstances > about how the real world behaves, then they are not two separate > theories, they are merely rewordings of the same theory. And choosing > between them is arbitrary; you may prefer one to the other because > human minds can visu

Re: >> RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-12-01 Thread Ben Goertzel
>We cannot > ask Feynman, but I actually asked Deutsch. He does not only think QM > is our most basic physical reality (he thinks math and computer > science lie in quantum mechanics), but he even takes quite seriously > his theory of parallel universes! and he is not alone. Speaking by > myself, I

Re: >> RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Hector Zenil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:55 AM, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> But I don't get your point at all, because the whole idea of >> "nondeterministic" randomness has nothi

Re: >> RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
first N bits of an uncomputable series or of a computable one... ben g On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Hector Zenil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:44 AM, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> OTOH, there is no possible real-world test to distinguis

Re: >> RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:09 AM, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> But quantum theory does appear to be directly related to limits of the >>> computations of physical reality. The uncertainty theory and the >>> quantization of quantum states are limitations o

Re: >> RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
HI, > "In quantum physics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle states that the > values of certain pairs of conjugate variables (position and momentum, for > instance) cannot both be known with arbitrary precision. That is, the more > precisely one variable is known, the less precisely the other

Re: >> RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
> But quantum theory does appear to be directly related to limits of the > computations of physical reality. The uncertainty theory and the > quantization of quantum states are limitations on what can be computed by > physical reality. Not really. They're limitations on what measurements of phy

Re: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
human brain model an infinity of > infinitely complexity things? > > > > ----- > > > > I don't understand what your paper on uncomputability has to do with my > questions and comments about Richard's paper, other than to highlight > pro

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
> > Regarding winning a DARPA contract, I believe that teaming with an > established contractor, e.g. SAIC, SRI, is beneficial. > > Cheers, > -Steve Yeah, I've tried that approach too ... As it happens, I've had significant more success getting funding from various other government agencies ... b

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
hilip Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/11/30 Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Hi, >> >>> I have proposed a problem domain called "function predictor" whose >>> purpose is to allow an AI to learn across problem sub-domains, &g

Re: [agi] AIXI (was: Mushed Up Decision Processes)

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
p://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html > > > --- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.co

[agi] Re: Glocal memory

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
om/2008/01/semantics-and-brain-more-on-atl-as-hub.html As Richard L would likely point out, the authors' data supports plenty of different interpretations, and the one presented is only one of the many plausible ones... -- ben G On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, > I have proposed a problem domain called "function predictor" whose > purpose is to allow an AI to learn across problem sub-domains, > carrying its learning from one domain to another. (See > http://www.includipedia.com/wiki/User:Cabalamat/Function_predictor ) > > I also think it would be use

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Ben Goertzel
> Could you give me a little more detail about your thoughts on this? > Do you think the problem of increasing uncomputableness of complicated > complexity is the common thread found in all of the interesting, > useful but unscalable methods of AI? > Jim Bromer Well, I think that dealing with comb

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Ben Goertzel
ave to be able to express > and analyze its statistical assessments in terms of some kind of > declarative methods as well. > > Jim Bromer > > > --- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS F

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Ben Goertzel
from will be the inevitable >>> emergence of inherently illogical decision processes that will mush up >>> an AI system long before it gets any traction. >>> >>> Jim Bromer >>> >>> >>> --- >>>

Re: [agi] If aliens are monitoring us, our development of AGI might concern them

2008-11-27 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Eric Burton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All I've tried to impress is that these revelations, epiphanies, > theophanies or what-have-you are at least as primary as the sensations > associated with daily life. I tend to agree ... but unless you are going to tie th

Re: [agi] If aliens are monitoring us, our development of AGI might concern them

2008-11-27 Thread Ben Goertzel
> But that in no way means your statements are correct descriptions of > external reality, as many of your statements would appear to claim to be. > And you have provided no evidence, other than drug induced experience within > your own mind, that they are. > > Ed Porter The notions of "correct de

Re: [agi] The Future of AGI

2008-11-26 Thread Ben Goertzel
gt;> >>> You'll remember that I've been saying this for quite a while - now Kevin >>> Kelly is saying it - and you'll be hearing a lot more of this >>> >>> >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/magazine/23wwln-future-t.html?_r=2&sq=KEVIN%20KELLY&st=cse&scp=1&pagewa

Re: [agi] The Future of AGI

2008-11-26 Thread Ben Goertzel
--- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > --

Re: [agi] JAGI submission

2008-11-25 Thread Ben Goertzel
> I could also argue that the limitations on RSI would constrain a hard-takeoff > singularity to an explosion of computational power, not of knowledge. But I > think that might be a stretch. Not everyone agrees that there will even be a > singularity in the first place. You could argue that, b

Re: [agi] Glocal memory

2008-11-25 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > yeah, it's coming back to me now .. I remember holons and holarchies > and all that stuff ;-) > > However, Koestler was writing before complex dynamics and attractors > and such were well-underst

Re: [agi] Glocal memory

2008-11-25 Thread Ben Goertzel
vade Iraq" and a little later a >>> vast army of 150,000 with all its machinery is elaborating his command. >>> >>> Our machines also are designed in terms of simple switches, or key >>> mechanisms, setting off whole elaborate complexes of action. >>> &

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-25 Thread Ben Goertzel
>> >> http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/engineering/extranet/research-groups/neuroengineering-lab/ > > > There are always more papers that can be discussed. OK, sure, but this is a more recent paper **by the same authors, discussing the same data*** and more recent similar data. > > But that does

Re: [agi] Glocal memory

2008-11-25 Thread Ben Goertzel
I wrote this a long while ago but just got around to posting it now... >> > > > > > --- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify You

[agi] Glocal memory

2008-11-24 Thread Ben Goertzel
A semi-technical essay on the global/local (aka glocal) nature of memory is linked to from here http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.com/ I wrote this a long while ago but just got around to posting it now... ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-24 Thread Ben Goertzel
e Sciences. 12: 87-91; 2008 *** at http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/engineering/extranet/research-groups/neuroengineering-lab/ -- Ben G On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ben Goertzel wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> BTW, I jus

Re: [agi] Entheogins, understainding the brain, and AGI

2008-11-24 Thread Ben Goertzel
of being and computation > upon which the much higher levels of organization that provide human > awareness are built. > > > > If you have communicable evidence to the contrary, please enlighten me. > > > > Ed Porter > > > > > > -Original Message-

Re: [agi] Entheogins, understainding the brain, and AGI

2008-11-24 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Since I assume Ben, as well as a lot of the rest of us, want the AGI > movement to receive respectability in the academic and particularly in the > funding community, it is probably best that other than brain-science- or > AGI-

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-24 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, BTW, I just read this paper > For example, in Loosemore & Harley (in press) you can find an analysis of a > paper by Quiroga, Reddy, Kreiman, Koch, and Fried (2005) in which the latter > try to claim they have evidence in favor of grandmother neurons (or sparse > collections of grandmother n

Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-23 Thread Ben Goertzel
what is off topic was more narrow? > > > > That is what I assumed, and that is why, in the post you responding to > below, I was asking if there were any describable non-entheogenic aspects of > the ego-loss experience, other than what I had already described. > > > > Ed

Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-23 Thread Ben Goertzel
r gin and tonic with lime)? > >> > >> What is the respective emphasis given to each of these three parts in the > >> proper pronunciations. > >> > >> It is a word that would be deeply appreciated by many at my local >> Unitarian > >> Church

Re: [agi] IBM and US government Seek to Build Computer Brain as Smart as a Cat

2008-11-22 Thread Ben Goertzel
rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The empires of the future are the empires of the mind."

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
work would be to have > (about) 1% of the MTL respond to one picture - a *huge* number of cells, by > anyone's standard! > > This is a contradiction. Or, as we put it, an incoherent claim. > > > > All of this was in the paper. > > Yes, the data by itself is inte

Re: [agi] To what extent can our minds experience the consciousness of external reality?

2008-11-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
> > Agreed. The beliefs we have expressed are certainly beyond humanity's > current powers of explanation, and at least certain aspects of them probably > always will be. But as I expressed in my recent discussion of Richard's > paper, I think science will know much more about consciousness in 50

Re: [agi] To what extent can our minds experience the consciousness of external reality?

2008-11-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, > I have said many times on this list that I believe there is nothing we know > about reality that is anything other than computing, and that there is > nothing we know about consciousness that is anything other than computing, > other than our sense of awareness, which can be considered an at

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Vladimir Nesov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> They want some kind of mixture of "sparse" and "multiply redundant" and "not >> distributed". The whole point of what we wrote was that

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ben Goertzel wrote: >> >> I saw the main point of Richard's paper as being that the available >> neuroscience data drastically underdetermines the nature of neural >> knowle

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
> Vladimir Nesov > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://causalityrelay.wordpress.com/ > > > --- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscr

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] &

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
u say > that cognitive science is "running on raw data". I cannot find any way to > understand this statement that does not lead directly to the conclusion that > it is completely and utterly wrong. Cognitive science involves a huge > theoretical interpretation of raw data.

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
> I stated a Ben's List challenge a while back that you apparently missed, so > here it is again. > > You can ONLY learn how a system works by observation, to the extent that its > operation is imperfect. Where it is perfect, it represents a solution to the > environment in which it operates, and a

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-20 Thread Ben Goertzel
> The neuron = concept > 'theory' is extremely broken: it is so broken, that when neuroscientists > talk about bayesian contingencies being calculated or encoded by spike > timing mechanisms, that claim is incoherent. This is not always true ... in some cases there are solidly demonstrated conne

Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-20 Thread Ben Goertzel
> When I was in college and LSD was the rage, one of the main goals of the > heavy duty heads was "ego loss" which was to achieve a sense of cosmic > oneness with all of the universe. It was commonly stated that 1000 > micrograms was the ticket to "ego loss." I never went there. Nor have I > eve

Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-20 Thread Ben Goertzel
box.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "A human being should be able to c

Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of consciousness

2008-11-20 Thread Ben Goertzel
e harder, much more > >> important problem. And without the sense of awareness and realness --- > >> which you never convincingly explain the source of --- other than to say > >> it exist and it comes from the operation of the framework --- even the > >> major conclusion

Re: [agi] Hunting for a Brainy Computer

2008-11-20 Thread Ben Goertzel
Richard, > The main problem is that if you interpret spike timing to be playing the > role that you (and they) imply above, then you are commiting yourself to a > whole raft of assumptions about how knowledge is generally represented and > processed. However, there are *huge* problems with that s

Re: [agi] Professor Asim Roy Finally Publishes Controversial Brain Theory

2008-11-20 Thread Ben Goertzel
> > So, basically, you don't disagree with his paper to much. > You just don't like his attitude.;) > > Danged AI researchers that think they know it all! ;) > > You don't think you could call it excessive PR where he is trying to > dislodge an entrenched view? The thing is, the simplis

Re: [agi] Professor Asim Roy Finally Publishes Controversial Brain Theory

2008-11-20 Thread Ben Goertzel
hu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > yay ... we all agree on something ;-p > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Vladimir Nesov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 7:04 PM, Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> w

Re: [agi] Professor Asim Roy Finally Publishes Controversial Brain Theory

2008-11-20 Thread Ben Goertzel
esov > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://causalityrelay.wordpress.com/ > > > --- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: https

<    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   >