[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-13 Thread Dilip Kounmany
------------ > *From:* Lu Heng > *Sent:* Sunday, August 13, 2023 2:00 AM > *To:* Christopher Hawker > *Cc:* Dilip Kounmany ; apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net < > apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net> > *Subject:* Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Barry Greene
> On Aug 12, 2023, at 10:02 PM, Lu Heng wrote: > > stop deformation and personal attack. Yes, Mr Lu - take a break from your behavior and think about the consequences of your abrasive attacks. Constituents are leaving apnic-talk. If you goal is to influence policy - success - people are

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Barry Greene
> On Aug 13, 2023, at 6:28 AM, David Conrad wrote: > > > it was a mistake to have 5 RIR instead of one, it was mistake to concentrate > all the powers to single individual for past 25 years, it was mistake to even > start distinguish difference in race, ethnic, or location on the internet

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread David Conrad
On Aug 11, 2023, at 9:59 PM, Lu Heng wrote: > I understand you really like the dictatorship mode where first you then paul > Wilson can change the bylaw without the membership just like recently > demonstrated. I would suggest it is unwise to presume understanding about that which you know

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread David Conrad
On Aug 10, 2023, at 11:22 PM, Lu Heng wrote: > We (followed by a geographic region or ethnic group) are (better, capable, > talented) compared to (rest of the world, other nations, etc). > > And this is exactly what me and my colleagues are fighting for here. So, presumably, you and your

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread David Conrad
On Aug 10, 2023, at 8:09 PM, Hubert wrote: > We are fine with the rules set out by the commission in prohibiting the usage > of whoisdata found in the disclosure system, but our contention has always > been, > > "what if, the data that is found in the disclosure system, which incidentally >

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Hubert
Dear Mr. Hawker, Just so you know, we (read: LARUS Limited) did provide consultancy services in assisting the uninitiated to apply for memberships in RIR, and in fact for numerous times acted pro bono for certain organisations for good cause, enclosed herewith the embedded link

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Hubert
Dear Mr. Hawker, If you can substantiate your statement with empirical data and solid proof, it is best not to say anything at all. You are getting delusional as we speak and getting too engrossed on spewing baseless allegations and libellous statements without undergoing in-depth research

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Christopher Hawker
ubject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Chris: You mean any member who disagrees with you and supports me has integrity problems? Wasn't that exactly the same sentence as suggesting every member who voted for me in the last election because of the bride? This is

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Christopher Hawker
r H. From: Lu Heng Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2023 7:19 PM To: Christopher Hawker Cc: David Conrad ; Dilip Kounmany ; apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Chris: First you suggest members sh

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Lu Heng
;>>> member >>>>>>> bases, it is more prone to happen within the APNIC region. And to think >>>>>>> that it doesn't happen is simply ignorant. It's all about education, >>>>>>> training and development to mitigat

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Karl Kloppenborg via APNIC-talk
ithout a member vote >>>>>> twice in 25 years - once to expand the EC from 5 to 7 members, and to >>>>>> require a super majority of 75% of all EC members to change the bylaws >>>>>> without a member vote. This clearly demonstrates that the EC ac

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Lu Heng
t; >>>>>> You cannot advocate for "decentralize the registration database so >>>>>> members will truly own their registration", due to your sheer IP resource >>>>>> holdings that you hold with an estimated secondary market value exceed

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Olerato Manyaapelo
egistration database so >>>>>> members will truly own their registration", due to your sheer IP resource >>>>>> holdings that you hold with an estimated secondary market value exceeding >>>>>> $240m USD. This is in itself, what defin

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Karl Kloppenborg via APNIC-talk
ines a conflict of interest. I don't >>>>> think you quite grasp that concept. Further, decentralisation of RIRs will >>>>> not work, as there needs to be some form of registry to manage >>>>> allocations. >>>>> This is what the RIRs are design

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Lu Heng
ceeding >>>>> $240m USD. This is in itself, what defines a conflict of interest. I don't >>>>> think you quite grasp that concept. Further, decentralisation of RIRs will >>>>> not work, as there needs to be some form of registry to manage >>>>

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Karl Kloppenborg via APNIC-talk
members. If you really wanted to get out there >>>> and campaign for a position on the EC, you would be actively engaging with >>>> the community like the current EC members have, not be hung up on APNIC >>>> compiling a list of governance contacts for you to send

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Lu Heng
ins the same. It's designed to protect >>> members' rights and allow them to have their voices heard as well as >>> protect the interests of APNIC as a whole. Allowing individuals who feel >>> the need to seek redress from APNIC through litigation, then join the EC, >>> is not i

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Karl Kloppenborg via APNIC-talk
et" on the world stage, you >> may want to start advocating to your clients. >> >> Regards, >> Christopher H. >> -- >> *From:* Lu Heng >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 12, 2023 5:43 PM >> *To:* Christopher Hawker >> *Cc:* David

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Lu Heng
ds, > Christopher H. > -- > *From:* Lu Heng > *Sent:* Saturday, August 12, 2023 5:43 PM > *To:* Christopher Hawker > *Cc:* David Conrad ; Dilip Kounmany < > dlilipk2...@gmail.com>; apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net < > apnic-talk@lists.apnic

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread JJ
Hi Christopher, The qualifications of Dr. Felter, while commendable in their own right, do not preclude him from offering an informed opinion on APNIC's corporate structure. His expertise in various legal domains reflects a versatile analytical mind, well-suited to critically assess

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Christopher Hawker
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2023 5:43 PM To: Christopher Hawker Cc: David Conrad ; Dilip Kounmany ; apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Chris: Are you suggesting every voter that voted for me in the last election is because of monetary incent

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Lu Heng
ways held power within APNIC. 20% of its members can call > for an extraordinary meeting to amend by-law changes, and to effect changes > only two-thirds of all votes cast are required. This is a substantial > amount of power that members hold. > > Regards, > Christopher H. >

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Christopher Hawker
_ From: Lu Heng Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2023 5:28 PM To: Christopher Hawker Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Chris: "Every RIR has a stipulation (and is written into their agreements) that resources delegated by them are used in thei

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Lu Heng
gt; > Regards, > Christopher H. > -- > *From:* Lu Heng > *Sent:* Saturday, August 12, 2023 2:59 PM > *To:* David Conrad > *Cc:* Dilip Kounmany ; apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net < > apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net> > *Subject:* [apnic-talk]

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Christopher Hawker
23 2:59 PM To: David Conrad Cc: Dilip Kounmany ; apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi David: I understand you really like the dictatorship mode where first you then paul Wilson can change the bylaw without the membership just lik

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-12 Thread Christopher Hawker
Christopher Hawker Cc: Aftab Siddiqui ; apnic-talk ; m.ch...@larus.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Chris: I am not quite sure what you refer to as financial interest here, if you refer to a functional registry that is vital to every ISP's business

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
Hi David: I understand you really like the dictatorship mode where first you then paul Wilson can change the bylaw without the membership just like recently demonstrated. But I am afraid this is not how democracy works. Just because under paul Wilson’s leader ship, APNIC’s lawyer put road block

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Olerato Manyaapelo
come from. >>> >>> It's a principle so vital to the future of the internet, we must protect >>> it not abandon it. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 at 14:07, Christopher Hawker >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Aftab, I

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
y >>> demonstrated to the APNIC region but to the world, the value that some of >>> these people bring to the EC. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Christopher H. >>> -- >>> *From:* Aftab Siddiqui >>> *Sent:* Friday, A

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
:* Lu Heng > *Sent:* Saturday, August 12, 2023 12:36 AM > *To:* Christopher Hawker > *Cc:* Aftab Siddiqui ; apnic-talk < > apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net>; m.ch...@larus.net > *Subject:* Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms > > Hi > >

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
ts in these entities. Regards, Christopher H. From: Lu Heng Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2023 12:36 AM To: Christopher Hawker Cc: Aftab Siddiqui ; apnic-talk ; m.ch...@larus.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi None of your st

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
, 2023 12:11 AM To: Christopher Hawker Cc: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms The irritation arises from the apparent intention of someone to argue solely for the purpose of arguing, rather than genuinely proposing ideas that could

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
gust 11, 2023 11:47 PM > *To:* Christopher Hawker > *Cc:* Aftab Siddiqui ; apnic-talk < > apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net>; m.ch...@larus.net > > *Subject:* Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms > > Hi Chris: > > Leasing IP is part of internet ser

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
hristopher Hawker Cc: Aftab Siddiqui ; apnic-talk ; m.ch...@larus.net Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Chris: Leasing IP is part of internet service, what other service it could be? Food and beverage? LMAO. What an assumption, a simple fact, APNIC runs

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Yap Jia Jun (JJ)
H. From: JJ Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 10:53 PM To: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms   Hi Christopher, It is with mounting frustration that I find myself addressing the same points once again, as it seems my

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
litigation nonetheless is against an RIR that in essence performs the same functions as APNIC. So it is indeed very relevant. Regards, Christopher H. From: Hubert Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 11:09 PM To: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedbac

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
;> *From:* Aftab Siddiqui >> *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2023 9:12 AM >> *To:* m.ch...@larus.net >> *Cc:* Christopher Hawker ; apnic-talk < >> apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net> >> *Subject:* Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms >> >&

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
hat service region, thus causing a ripple effect for the millions that > rely on their internet services... > > To think that I am "very interested in excluding all ISPs from APNIC > governance", that I "don't want them to participate in the voting process" > and tha

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
, August 11, 2023 10:53 PM To: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Christopher, It is with mounting frustration that I find myself addressing the same points once again, as it seems my intended message has yet to be fully grasped. My

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
August 11, 2023 10:43 PM To: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Dear Mr. Hawker, Incorporating another new entity to act as corporate trustee is akin to adding new wine to an old bottle, which does not really alter its original purpose.

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
r services such as IP transit, international or domestic backhaul, etc). Regards, Christopher H. From: Lu Heng Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 10:39 PM To: Christopher Hawker Cc: Aftab Siddiqui ; m.ch...@larus.net ; apnic-talk Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APN

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Hubert
Dear Mr. Hawker, With all due respect you have let your ego gets in the way and digressed way too far from our original topic, the goal that we strive to achieve here is to make known to you all, higher up on the pedestal, what change does the member truly yearn for in the community, in hoping

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread JJ
Hi Christopher, It is with mounting frustration that I find myself addressing the same points once again, as it seems my intended message has yet to be fully grasped. My intention remains clear: I advocate for APNIC to disclose the corporate documents or provide a comprehensive write-up

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Hubert
Dear Mr. Hawker, Incorporating another new entity to act as corporate trustee is akin to adding new wine to an old bottle, which does not really alter its original purpose. If APNIC is truly about reinventing the whole wheel, the entire structure has to be re-incorporated with a fresh board

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
othing you say will change my mind. > > Regards, > Christopher H. > -- > *From:* Lu Heng > *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2023 9:46 PM > *To:* Christopher Hawker > *Cc:* Aftab Siddiqui ; m.ch...@larus.net < > m.ch...@larus.net>; apnic-talk > *S

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Dear Mr. Harker, Well that one insignificant Associate member that you are talking condescendingly to, have succeeded in initiating calls for change and exert enough pressures for the almighty board of APNIC to finall

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Hubert
Dear Mr. Harker, Well that one insignificant Associate member that you are talking condescendingly to, have succeeded in initiating calls for change and exert enough pressures for the almighty board of APNIC to finally disclose the Deed of Trust which has remained in obscurity for good 20

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
qui ; m.ch...@larus.net ; apnic-talk Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Chris: I obtained a large portion of the IP address because my business needed it at that time, just like any other ISP. Since providing IP is also part of providing connectivity, I don

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
; m.ch...@larus.net < > m.ch...@larus.net>; apnic-talk > *Subject:* Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms > > Hi > > I think his language is clear, not excluding other people but only me. > > If that does not warrant CoC enforcement I don't w

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
Heng Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 9:27 PM To: Christopher Hawker Cc: Barry Raveendran Greene ; m.ch...@larus.net ; apnic-talk Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi I think his language is clear, not excluding other people but only me. If that does not w

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Hubert
Dear Mr. Hawker, If all members were to just see APNIC at its face value, based on the ASIC's search report, then APNIC EC would be nothing but just a mere department of APNIC PTY LTD and whoever sitting on board would be puppets (for the lack of better term) controlled by the sole director

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
To: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Christopher, I wish to reiterate my prior assertions (yet again) that our comprehension of Paul's imminent designation as a non-voting director, aligned with the imperative to fulfill Australia's

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
nsion, its Regional Internet Registries. > > Regards, > Christopher H. > -- > *From:* Lu Heng > *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2023 7:37 PM > *To:* Christopher Hawker > *Cc:* Aftab Siddiqui ; m.ch...@larus.net < > m.ch...@larus.net>; apnic-ta

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
- > *From:* Lu Heng > *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2023 9:12 PM > *To:* Barry Raveendran Greene > *Cc:* m.ch...@larus.net ; apnic-talk < > apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net> > *Subject:* [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms > >

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
violation) is laughable. Regards, Christopher H. From: Lu Heng Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 9:12 PM To: Barry Raveendran Greene Cc: m.ch...@larus.net ; apnic-talk Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Dear Barry: You mean you

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread JJ
Hi Christopher, I wish to reiterate my prior assertions (yet again) that our comprehension of Paul's imminent designation as a non-voting director, aligned with the imperative to fulfill Australia's resident directors stipulation, remains steadfast. However, please take note that my current

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
Dear Barry: You mean you want to exclude me as a community member? APNIC secretary, can I have a code of conduct enforced here please. On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 at 19:05, Barry Raveendran Greene wrote: > > > > On Aug 11, 2023, at 21:52, Lu Heng wrote: > > > > You are exactly demonstrating the

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Barry Raveendran Greene
> On Aug 11, 2023, at 21:52, Lu Heng wrote: > > You are exactly demonstrating the issue I am raising here, people like you > will start to attack and exclude people from different ideologies and values, > then we will start have divide in the internet, government will start to race > to get

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
:37 PM To: Christopher Hawker Cc: Aftab Siddiqui ; m.ch...@larus.net ; apnic-talk Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Chris: Your logic simply makes no sense. All ISP's business depends on the IP address, NTT(or any national telecom) would depend all i

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
, where you from, what race are > you, where do you live, does not matter to serve in internet governance > organization, APNIC is not a government, it should merely being a technical > solution provider, and as a technical solution provider, it really does not > matter where you come from. &

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Dear Mr. Hawker, There is definitely more than it meets the eyes where one was to trace back its origin, and certainly a search on the register would not reveal much in depth details, especially when there was involvement

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
eng > *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2023 4:22 PM > *To:* Christopher Hawker > *Cc:* Aftab Siddiqui ; m.ch...@larus.net < > m.ch...@larus.net>; apnic-talk > *Subject:* Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms > > Hi Aftab and Chris: > > Just listen

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
; m.ch...@larus.net ; apnic-talk Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Aftab and Chris: Just listen to what your guys are saying here, the exact same argument in the past hundreds years fuels nationalism, separationism, and ultimately, wars. We (followed by

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Rod Beck
] <https://unitedcablecompany.com/video> From: Lu Heng Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 8:22 AM To: Christopher Hawker Cc: m.ch...@larus.net ; apnic-talk Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Aftab and Chris: Just listen to w

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Hubert
Dear Mr. Hawker, There is definitely more than it meets the eyes where one was to trace back its origin, and certainly a search on the register would not reveal much in depth details, especially when there was involvement of Declaration of Trust which governs the relationship between the

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
abase" is invalid. Regards, Christopher H. From: Hubert Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 1:09 PM To: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Dear Mr. Conrad, It is good to see your names popping out here in the

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
bert Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 12:49 PM To: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net Subject: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Dear Mr. Siddiqui, If you are unsure of the origin or the incorporation history of any organization, it is best not to make any sweeping statement followe

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Lu Heng
s.apnic.net> > *Subject:* Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms > > Hi Melvin, > > On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 at 07:00, Melvin Cheng > wrote: > > Hi Christopher, > > Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful response to my viewpoint on > APNIC's

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-11 Thread Christopher Hawker
of these people bring to the EC. Regards, Christopher H. From: Aftab Siddiqui Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 9:12 AM To: m.ch...@larus.net Cc: Christopher Hawker ; apnic-talk Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms Hi Melvin, On Fri, 11 Aug

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Hubert
Dear Mr. Conrad, It is good to see your names popping out here in the discussion as the last time I came across the same would be the time where the old Deed of Trust was publicized in the transparency page on APNIC website. If it weren't for your constant participation and input in internet

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Hubert
Dear Mr. Siddiqui, If you are unsure of the origin or the incorporation history of any organization, it is best not to make any sweeping statement followed by IANAL in public forum as it will create disinformation and lead to confusion for uninitiated members. Under the old structure, APNIC

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread David Conrad
On Aug 10, 2023, at 6:16 AM, Dilip Kounmany wrote: > If candidates are reaching out to members during the election period, I don't > see any issue with it. Presumably you are familiar with the term “spam” as it applies to electronic communication. > I'm a bit unclear about what you're

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
Hi Melvin, On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 at 07:00, Melvin Cheng wrote: > Hi Christopher, > > Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful response to my viewpoint on > APNIC's proposed bylaw reforms. I appreciate the chance to engage in this > conversation and to clarify my opinions further. > > I

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Ole Jacobsen via APNIC-talk
Hi, Imagine for a moment that you are working for a company in the process of hiring a new employee. Any reasonable hiring process would involve performing some kind of background check, verification of details etc. Would you hire a person who is in active litigation with your company? Of

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Dilip Kounmany
Hello Chris, Greetings to you. I'm an active "CD-room" member from the past, looks today's discussion has been quite lively. I've noticed you're quite the contrarian, and that adds an interesting dimension. I couldn't agree more with the sentiment that “Being a member of an association means you

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Vivien
Dear colleagues, Below is my feedback for the proposed law reform. While there are concerns and issues in most of the sections, I will focus on the most problematic section 6. I have concerns over the legitimacy of the so-called “election oversight”. The situation here is like this: The

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread JJ
Hi Christopher, I appreciate your acknowledgment that the EC's decisions are geared towards the collective benefit of all members and the overall advancement of the internet across the APNIC service region. My suggestion is rooted in the desire to fortify member protections in the event that

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Melvin Cheng
Hi Christopher, Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful response to my viewpoint on APNIC's proposed bylaw reforms. I appreciate the chance to engage in this conversation and to clarify my opinions further. I understand your perspective on restricting EC memberships to active

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Sylvain Baya
Dear APNIC Community, Hope this email finds you in good health! ...i'm only commenting to thank Christopher for standing at least for me; hoping that a great part of the community would recognised on its welcomed & much appreciated words. Christopher, while reading your replies, i feel as the

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
Hi hubert, IANAL but IMO, APNIC is an Australian Pty Ltd and maintains whois data of Australian organisations as well, please read the Spam Act. The unsolicited calls your (alleged) sister concern NRS did last time were annoying and I don't want to receive them. Regards Aftab A. Siddiqui On

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Christopher Hawker
er: https://asic.gov.au/for-business/registering-a-company/steps-to-register-a-company/minimum-officeholders/. Regards, Christopher H. From: Melvin Cheng Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2023 9:31 PM To: Christopher Hawker Cc: apnic-talk Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Re: Feedbac

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Lu Heng
Hi Chris: Governance matters are an obligation of a membership, just like it is your obligation as a nation's citizen to vote for your leaders, it's basic democracy 101. Governance matters are not marketing, don't confuse political discussion with commercial operation, EC is a vunleary position.

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Christopher H
Hi Lu, Being contacted by candidates is not a membership obligation. Members do not "default agree" to receiving unsolicited communications from EC candidates using information from an operational database as a condition of membership. There is no argument to be had. It's not the RIR's

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Lu Heng
Hi Chris: I would argue being contacted by candidates is part of your membership obligation, if you wish to surrender your rights to vote, you are free to do so and noted to APNIC nad rest of membership, but if you choice to vote for candidates, in a democratic society, you in default agree to be

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Lu Heng
Hi Chris: Your statement about LARUS and Cloud Innovation is simply misinformation and it is not true. Cloud Innovation, like every other ISP, obtains the IP address that fully complies with community made policy. While due to sub judice rules I am not able to future comment on any ongoing

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Christopher H
Hello Hubert, > the particular code of conduct where member is precluded from reaching > out/communicate with members whose contact can be found in whoisdata, is > simply archaic, rigid and over onerous. I disagree. The Whois system is designed to be a platform in which network operators can

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Christopher H
Hello JJ, > allowing members to file injunctions against APNIC is ... to provide a legal > avenue for members to protect their rights in cases where decisions may > adversely affect their interests. The EC don't make decisions for the benefit of one member, they make decisions that benefit

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Hubert
Dear Mr. Hawker, the particular code of conduct where member is precluded from reaching out/communicate with members whose contact can be found in whoisdata, is simply archaic, rigid and over onerous. In this day and age, a data could easily be replicated and reproduced elsewhere in other

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Okoli Jesusson
Dear colleagues, I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to express my deep concerns regarding the Proposed By-law Reforms. In particular, proposal 6, which grants extensive powers to the APNIC EC with regards to overseeing elections. While the intention may be to ensure fair and

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread Christopher H
Melvin, I agree with proposal 1 in its current form. If someone wishes to run as a candidate for the EC, they should reside within the service region and be actively involved in APNIC's activities. I see no additional benefit in allowing people from economies not within the APNIC service

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-10 Thread JJ
Hi Christopher, I appreciate the opportunity to further discuss the important matters I raised regarding the governance and transparency of APNIC. Pertaining to (1), I understand your perspective on the issue of restricting the authority to amend bylaws within the jurisdiction of EC

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-09 Thread Melvin Cheng
Dear community  I trust this communication finds you all in good health. I am writing to convey my perspective on APNIC's recently proposed bylaw reforms. I commend the organization's dedication to improving its governance, and I firmly believe that constructive dialogue is imperative for

[apnic-talk] Re: Feedback on APNIC proposed By-law reforms

2023-08-09 Thread Christopher H Christopher H
Hello JJ, (1) When you say that consideration should be given on "restricting the authority to amend bylaws within the jurisdiction of EC members" are you suggesting that the EC should not be able to make decisions that affect their home economy? If this is the case, I don't believe that it is