: Buy vs. Build
From: Bradford Bingel
Date: Fri, July 25, 2008 11:42 pm
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
I tip my hat to BMC/Remedy for holding a unique session dedicated solely
to
the AR System . . .
Now, what about those complimentary developer
press, they will
have to make some major changes in direction.
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Axton
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 8:06 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
That initially
but declining) business model and swallow some losses in order to go on to big time success. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Axton Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:32 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Buy vs
]
(Yes, I work for BMC. This post reflects the opinions of the poster and not
the
offical opinion of BMC)
Original Message
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
From: Bradford Bingel
Date: Fri, July 25, 2008 11:42 pm
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG mailto:arslist
m findingit VERY hard to justify the trip to management.Regards,Dave Davis-Original Message-From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Howard RichterSent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 16:40To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGSubject: Re: Buy vs. Build**
to justify the trip to management.
Regards,
Dave Davis
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Howard Richter
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 16:40
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
**
This is starting
.
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Davis, David CTR
NAVSURFWARCENDIV Crane, Code 0552
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
When you look at BMC User World Sessions
, July 25, 2008 8:15 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
There is an entire track at UserWorld dedicated to just AR System:
http://www.bmc.com/userworld/miami/agenda/Tracks_and_Sessions.html
BMC Atrium : Enabling Technologies BMC Remedy AR System - this track
will take you
I want to change the topic slightly and go off on a tangent that keeps coming
up repeatedly. That topic is of the power of ARS for development.
While I agree that ARS is great, I would have to qualify that to say that if
you want to build an application that is within its capabilities, it is
per se.
(now I feel better...)
John
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 9:00 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Pros and Cons of ARS development - was Buy vs. Build
I
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:00 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Pros and Cons of ARS development - was Buy vs. Build
I want to change the topic slightly and go
Shawn,
I have thought _a lot_ about how to describe ARS over the last 10
years. I find it interesting that lots of programmers can not even
agree on what generation of a language (and in some cases if ARS is
a language at all) that ARS is. I have also observed that most
business people have a
This may not be a pro for businesses who use Remedy but the fact that
it is not a mainstream language makes it a good market those who know
how to develop with the tool. I think typically a Remedy developer's
pay is going to be higher than say a .NET, php, insert other language
here.
So with all
a new Sci-Fi novel with such a plot.
As for this whole Buy vs. Build thread, what has changed? BMC Remedy has
made ITSM more efficient from a Computer Science sense. What's different
from this and what happened early on when Open Window took the place
of Macros. The old guys out there remember
PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Axton
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 8:06 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
That initially means laying off and then eventually hiring people.
This has some implications in terms of active development in the
product lines and other things. Also, Microsoft has
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Why buy AR Server for 25k when you can get a Visual Studio Express edition, and
SQL Server Express and make better apps? For Free or at least not for 25k?
Who uses Access anymore nowadays?
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList
, July 24, 2008 9:00 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Pros and Cons of ARS development - was Buy vs. Build
I want to change the topic slightly and go off on a tangent that keeps coming
up repeatedly. That topic is of the power of ARS for development.
While I agree that ARS is great, I would have
discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Garrison, Sean (Norcross)
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:11 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of ARS development - was Buy vs. Build
Having been a developer for years here are some of my experiences:
1. Remedy
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Axton
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 8:06 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
That initially means laying off and then eventually hiring people.
This has some implications in terms of active development in the
product lines and other things. Also
diehards (us), but
we are a very small community.
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bradford Bingel
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 12:07 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Shawn, you are right
.
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:12 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
**
I have to take some exception to your first remark, Norm. If the ARS
-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:12 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
**
I have to take some exception to your first remark, Norm. If the ARS
were dying a slow
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
**
Fred,
I have been using Remedy for over 8 years, and it has always been called
a Helpdesk application by people outside of the Remedy world. Granted I
never describe it as such, and I correct everybody I can, but the fact
remains, if you are not on the backside
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Goralczyk
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:31 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
**
Fred,
I have been using Remedy for over 8 years, and it has always been called
a Helpdesk application by people outside of the Remedy world. Granted I
never
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Simple answer is affordable for the customer does not necessarily
mean profitable for the proprietor. I'm not saying it can't be
profitable, but there is a lot to account for in developing and
proposing a business model that is so drastically different
Norm,
For the record, my point was that, your right, it needs to be promoted as
more than a helpdesk solution. But I think part of the fault in the current
situation would also fall to the sales people. They make more money by
convincing management that they NEED to buy ITSM. So maybe part of
: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:32 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Simple answer is affordable for the customer does not necessarily
mean profitable for the proprietor. I'm not saying it can't be
profitable, but there is a lot to account for in developing and
proposing
Am I the only one seeing a resurgance of contacts seeking experienced
custom-build expertise vs. install/configure/maintain/integrate folks?
I know BMC's pie in the sky goal is minimal need for customizations vs.
configuration/data changes, but there seems to be a growing backlash against
this
I have a bit of a different take on things, Ray. The new BMC business
continues to be almost entirely ITSM, because their sales people can't make
as much money selling the AR System. However, many older customers have
lots invested in their custom systems, and have no intention of converting.
Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Gellenbeck
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:48 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Buy vs. Build
Am I the only one seeing a resurgance of contacts seeking experienced
custom-build expertise vs. install/configure
22, 2008 8:48 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Buy vs. Build
**
Am I the only one seeing a resurgance of contacts seeking experienced
custom-build expertise vs. install/configure/maintain/integrate folks?
I know BMC's pie in the sky goal is minimal need for customizations vs.
configuration
Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Gellenbeck
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:48 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Buy vs. Build
Am I the only one seeing a resurgance of contacts seeking experienced
custom-build expertise vs. install/configure
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Gellenbeck
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Buy vs. Build
Am I the only one seeing a resurgance of contacts seeking experienced
custom-build expertise vs. install/configure/maintain/integrate folks?
I know BMC's pie in the sky goal
:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Gellenbeck
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Buy vs. Build
Am I the only one seeing a resurgance of contacts seeking experienced
custom-build expertise vs. install/configure/maintain/integrate folks?
I know BMC's pie in the sky
: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:32 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Yes...it is an awesome RAD environment but it's extremely hampered by
its extraordinarily expensive licensing model. With another RAD (let's
say Visual Studio .Net), you build the application and then never have
Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96
CS/SCCE
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:32 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Yes...it is an awesome RAD environment but it's extremely hampered by
its
: Buy vs. Build
Another great reason for the Custom applications, I have hundreds of
users with only an AR User license - No Application licenses needed
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96
CS
(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Begosh, Kevin
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:36 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Yeah but if you custom build your application you do not need all of
the licenses for instance like ITSM 7 needs, Problem, change, asset,
incident etc
...nevermind...
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elry
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 11:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
I have to say...
There is nothing wrong with the ITSM Suite 7.x
this from experience. It is not pretty!
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tanner, Doug
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 15:37
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Another great reason for the Custom
(No, I don't get a commission from Gidd for saying this. I truly believe it.)
--Tim
- Original Message
From: Begosh, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:36:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSLIST] Buy vs. Build
Yeah but if you custom build your application
15:41
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Right...you avoid the ridiculous (my opinion) costs associated with
ITSM, but you still have to pay for AR System user licenses.
With VS .Net, Delphi, or whatever you NEVER worry about user licenses
for apps you build.
-Original Message
Crane, Code 0552
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:06 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
All Microsoft users must be covered by a CAL license of some type either
Server license and/or Database license.
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList
Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:10 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Right...given...but same is true about Remedy running in an MS environment.
Remedy in MS environment = CALs, server license, and/or database license
PLUS Remedy user licenses Other app
-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:32 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build
Yes...it is an awesome RAD environment but it's
Shawn, you are right on target!
IT management culture has changed since the AR System's initial
introduction. In those days IT shops regularly debated the buy vs. build
dilemma, and there wasn't a clear winner. Today it's different, as IT shops
regularly select OOTB applications -- build
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