Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Thanks Mridul, for a much needed voice of support :-). But I don't think such answers will be forthcoming. Our friends here are more interested in having me submit to their inquisitions than answering questions to their proposals and ideas. I have gotten used to the idea however. I realize, I wouldn't be the lightning rod, if my arguments did NOT score any points . If they did not, they would not elicit the kind of reactions they usually do .That is reward enough for me to continue to serve as the designated punching bag of Assamnet :-). c-da At 9:51 PM -0700 5/17/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote: I have been following this debate for quite a long time. This time I think Chandan Da has definitely raised some valid points. Looking forward to the response from others. Rgds. Mridul Bhuyan Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mohan: If the two hoots can bring some boys back home and bring them to the mainstream of life. I do not mind being ridiculed *** I wouldn't either. However, what are the chances ? I would think offering of a puja at an important temple will hold a higher potential :-). That is the point I was trying to drive home; the ineffectiveness or more precisely the absence of realism in the various posts by netters who could expected to be far more result oriented than their proposals indicate. I don't devalue your good-will. That is all very good. But good-will or good-wishes sans realism will do little to cure that 'mohamari' that you all have been railing against. You have been prolifically writing hate words towards India. *** I think you are misusing the English language here Mohan. Will you be able to point out WHICH words in my posts you can consider HATE WORDS against India, or for that matter against anybody else; people, state, culture or religion? Yes, I do write a lot of critical things about India. But that is different from HATE. And if you find those criticisms untrue, unfair or otherwise unwarranted, then all you need to demolish them, putting me in my place, is to point them out. Rebut. Refute. It is good for you to try that. Because you will need to do your homework to do so, and in the process will become more informed. I know you are a well-meaning person. I will never take offense with such rebuttals or showing netters how or why I am wrong. It will actually be a PLEASURE to see someone doing that CREDIBLY and EFFECTIVELY . Would demonstrate a sincerity of purpose and instill pride in my fellowmen's abilities. I do not have a islamic paranoia. I have both Pakistani and Bangladeshi friends. I would any day like a free and open trade between these countries and a open border. *** Who would not? Even Narendra Modi would love to do that :-). But that does not prove or disprove anything. Remember, I did not say Pakistani's or Bangladeshi's. I specifically said ISIThis is a militant organization with extreme hate towards India. Ido not support any form of violence or extremism. *** I would not badger you on this, only because I know you mean well. But I also know very well where the ISI-paranoia amongst desis spring from. It has everything do with deeply-rooted Hindu /Muslim bigotries and animus so pervasive in north, central, west and south India, translated to ownership pretenses of Kashmir, never mind what the Kashmiris who call it home want, leading to the Pakistan/India conflicts that gave rise to ISI and Jihad and has escalated into today's Islamic and Hindu militancy. Assam and the contiguous states and Bengal , barring the Hindu Siletis displaced from today's B'desh, have been relatively free of that debilitating desi condition. Only in recent years, thanks to Hindian influences, compounded by the GoI propaganda to discredit ULFA, has this ISI paranoia begun to take root in Assam. It is in the exact same vein as that of the CIA paranoia during the cold-war. Only now we have begun to learn how overblown it was. I don't dispute the fact of ISI's dirty record. So is RAW's. But ISI cannot be THAT powerful. ISI today is the code-word for demonizing everything associated with Islam. And its cultivated fear is an essential GLUE to hold the tattered bonds of Indian nationalism together. This is what ULFA has done for Assam. The rest of the country has grown in leaps and bounds. But Assam is still miles behind. Its growth fettered by this cankerous grwoth called ULFA. *** That argument is another propaganda designed by Indians and Indian apologist Oxomiyas. How will you answer to the question of Assam's condition BEFORE ULFA happened? Why was it so? Can you tell me, with a straight face that if ULFA disappeared today, tomorrow Assam's prosperity will take off the ground ? That its problems will disappear like a bad dream? Think about that Mohan. How come in this net only you speak for the ULFA, as if you can read their minds and
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
This is where some of the Tax collected as part of the Conflict goes: http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070517/asp/northeast/story_7787385.asp Rgds, Sandip - Original Message From: Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: chittaranjan pathak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 11:01:29 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA Excellent points raised Chitta. I am sure C'da will come at y'all (as we say in Texas) with guns a-blazin. There is one slight correction that is needed ***But, I have often said that if the ulfa or some other group was really, really fighting for a cause, and with all sincerity, I would be the first one to at least give them the respect they deserve (even if I do not agree with their cause). That part is mine, not C'da. But one would wish C'da would also something like that - am not holding my breath, though. --Ram da On 5/16/07, chittaranjan pathak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mahanta da Salute Jyatirmay posed some questions-: - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public places? - Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons? You first did your patented qualitative analysis of these questions to classify them as dumb, dumber and dumbest. But let me assure you, many people in Assam are asking these seemingly dumb questions. While trying to work out intelligent responses to these dumb questions, you came out with not dumb; but some very disgusting explanations. And in the process you: Justified ULFA's extortion as a form of TAXATION Endorsed the hobnobbing with ISI and BDesh Jehadis as a STRATEGIC ALLAINCE Defended the killing of children and civilians as a modus operandi of the CONFLICT. Can we go back to your intelligent responses to these dumb questions one by one? TAXATION Try explaining this taxation scheme to those belonging to the samples I have given below. I am just limiting to few-with little effort I can post to you some copies of extortion notices (sorry tax advices) also. 1) This guy from humble background from Abhayapuri by grace of reservation/education in an engineering college gets a job in Public sector (OIL-Duliajan). Settles down, gets married and commits his first mistake of family life-taking an easy PSU provided loan buys a brand new Maruti 800 (it was late eighties). The happiness was short lived-the new car was whisked away never to be seen again for Xongothon activities. Served him right for being materialistic!! 2) Try explaining this taxation to tea tribes who have to resort to strike every year for timely payment of few thousands of rupees as Puja bonus where as their employers have to pay millions of rupees to these outfits. By the way as you can see-the polarization is complete now. These guys will rip you apart if you talk of independence and taxation. There is no solidarity-leave alone on the ULFA front but also on the army atrocities on innocent people as long as people dying are from the other side of the fence. 3) Or to the GMC trained Assamese government doctor posted in Diphu donating part of his monthly salary to UPDS coffer. 4) Or to this Assamese teacher in NC Hills (few of the last remaining breed-will be forced to rush to plain as soon as Dimaraji is claimed) who is visited by Hindi speaking DHD cadres every month. 5) Or to those contractors who still dare to do some theeka thukali in Bodoland. By the way is there any rare instance of this taxed money being used for a purpose like monetary help to those innocent people killed by armed forces in the name of ULFA hunting? Do you know of any instances? STRATEGIC ALLINACE Mahanta da –you gave a good justification why some of the ULFA leaders are holed up in BDesh. Strategic reason-good reasoning! Ram da unnecessarily lambasted you on this. Can I ask you a personal question? How far will you go on endorsing such spineless strategic alliance where the voice of the protagonist gets muffled by those pulling the strings? And if tomorrow they take this BDesh/ISI aided anti-India stance to extreme and declare that they would like to see Assam as an independent IRA (Islamic Republic of Assam) asking a segment of squabbling people forgo their religious independence for the sake of national independence of Assam. Will you still support them and endorse this as a strategic shift. Or you have set some limit up to which you will go on supporting ULFA's strategic alliance
[Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Chitta, your article was indeed thought provoking. I don't think I will get an answer to my dumb questions. Even in the US, the sympathizers seem to be a dying breed. I am thinking of posting these questions directly to Mr Paresh Baruah and company. Mr Mahanta seems to me to be the best person who may possibly help me getting Mr Baruah's email id. To all Assam netters ... I will keep you all informed. Cheers JS ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Hi Mohan: If the two hoots can bring some boys back home and bring them to the mainstream of life. I do not mind being ridiculed *** I wouldn't either. However, what are the chances ? I would think offering of a puja at an important temple will hold a higher potential :-). That is the point I was trying to drive home; the ineffectiveness or more precisely the absence of realism in the various posts by netters who could expected to be far more result oriented than their proposals indicate. I don't devalue your good-will. That is all very good. But good-will or good-wishes sans realism will do little to cure that 'mohamari' that you all have been railing against. You have been prolifically writing hate words towards India. *** I think you are misusing the English language here Mohan. Will you be able to point out WHICH words in my posts you can consider HATE WORDS against India, or for that matter against anybody else; people, state, culture or religion? Yes, I do write a lot of critical things about India. But that is different from HATE. And if you find those criticisms untrue, unfair or otherwise unwarranted, then all you need to demolish them, putting me in my place, is to point them out. Rebut. Refute. It is good for you to try that. Because you will need to do your homework to do so, and in the process will become more informed. I know you are a well-meaning person. I will never take offense with such rebuttals or showing netters how or why I am wrong. It will actually be a PLEASURE to see someone doing that CREDIBLY and EFFECTIVELY . Would demonstrate a sincerity of purpose and instill pride in my fellowmen's abilities. I do not have a islamic paranoia. I have both Pakistani and Bangladeshi friends. I would any day like a free and open trade between these countries and a open border. *** Who would not? Even Narendra Modi would love to do that :-). But that does not prove or disprove anything. Remember, I did not say Pakistani's or Bangladeshi's. I specifically said ISIThis is a militant organization with extreme hate towards India. Ido not support any form of violence or extremism. *** I would not badger you on this, only because I know you mean well. But I also know very well where the ISI-paranoia amongst desis spring from. It has everything do with deeply-rooted Hindu /Muslim bigotries and animus so pervasive in north, central, west and south India, translated to ownership pretenses of Kashmir, never mind what the Kashmiris who call it home want, leading to the Pakistan/India conflicts that gave rise to ISI and Jihad and has escalated into today's Islamic and Hindu militancy. Assam and the contiguous states and Bengal , barring the Hindu Siletis displaced from today's B'desh, have been relatively free of that debilitating desi condition. Only in recent years, thanks to Hindian influences, compounded by the GoI propaganda to discredit ULFA, has this ISI paranoia begun to take root in Assam. It is in the exact same vein as that of the CIA paranoia during the cold-war. Only now we have begun to learn how overblown it was. I don't dispute the fact of ISI's dirty record. So is RAW's. But ISI cannot be THAT powerful. ISI today is the code-word for demonizing everything associated with Islam. And its cultivated fear is an essential GLUE to hold the tattered bonds of Indian nationalism together. This is what ULFA has done for Assam. The rest of the country has grown in leaps and bounds. But Assam is still miles behind. Its growth fettered by this cankerous grwoth called ULFA. *** That argument is another propaganda designed by Indians and Indian apologist Oxomiyas. How will you answer to the question of Assam's condition BEFORE ULFA happened? Why was it so? Can you tell me, with a straight face that if ULFA disappeared today, tomorrow Assam's prosperity will take off the ground ? That its problems will disappear like a bad dream? Think about that Mohan. How come in this net only you speak for the ULFA, as if you can read their minds and speak on their behalf? *** First off, I don't speak FOR ULFA. Nor am I a mind-reader, ULFA's or others'. But I am informed. And my information is not based on Indian propaganda or Assam establishment's propaganda. It used to be that I too thought and spoke like you guys regarding ULFA at one time. But pretty soon I began to see, right here thru Assamnet what has been going on . And I dug deeper. More I sought, more I found. And thus my entire outlook changed to where it is today. That is why I wrote to Dilip Deka yesterday that people can and do change. It all depends on one's desire to seek the truths. One can take the position that he knows all he needs to know and remain there. Or can take the analytical approach and go wherever it may lead to. Choice is ours. It so happens, I had taken the latter path all my life. I have never been
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
I have been following this debate for quite a long time. This time I think Chandan Da has definitely raised some valid points. Looking forward to the response from others. Rgds. Mridul Bhuyan Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mohan: If the two hoots can bring some boys back home and bring them to the mainstream of life. I do not mind being ridiculed *** I wouldn't either. However, what are the chances ? I would think offering of a puja at an important temple will hold a higher potential :-). That is the point I was trying to drive home; the ineffectiveness or more precisely the absence of realism in the various posts by netters who could expected to be far more result oriented than their proposals indicate. I don't devalue your good-will. That is all very good. But good-will or good-wishes sans realism will do little to cure that 'mohamari' that you all have been railing against. You have been prolifically writing hate words towards India. *** I think you are misusing the English language here Mohan. Will you be able to point out WHICH words in my posts you can consider HATE WORDS against India, or for that matter against anybody else; people, state, culture or religion? Yes, I do write a lot of critical things about India. But that is different from HATE. And if you find those criticisms untrue, unfair or otherwise unwarranted, then all you need to demolish them, putting me in my place, is to point them out. Rebut. Refute. It is good for you to try that. Because you will need to do your homework to do so, and in the process will become more informed. I know you are a well-meaning person. I will never take offense with such rebuttals or showing netters how or why I am wrong. It will actually be a PLEASURE to see someone doing that CREDIBLY and EFFECTIVELY . Would demonstrate a sincerity of purpose and instill pride in my fellowmen's abilities. I do not have a islamic paranoia. I have both Pakistani and Bangladeshi friends. I would any day like a free and open trade between these countries and a open border. *** Who would not? Even Narendra Modi would love to do that :-). But that does not prove or disprove anything. Remember, I did not say Pakistani's or Bangladeshi's. I specifically said ISIThis is a militant organization with extreme hate towards India. Ido not support any form of violence or extremism. *** I would not badger you on this, only because I know you mean well. But I also know very well where the ISI-paranoia amongst desis spring from. It has everything do with deeply-rooted Hindu /Muslim bigotries and animus so pervasive in north, central, west and south India, translated to ownership pretenses of Kashmir, never mind what the Kashmiris who call it home want, leading to the Pakistan/India conflicts that gave rise to ISI and Jihad and has escalated into today's Islamic and Hindu militancy. Assam and the contiguous states and Bengal , barring the Hindu Siletis displaced from today's B'desh, have been relatively free of that debilitating desi condition. Only in recent years, thanks to Hindian influences, compounded by the GoI propaganda to discredit ULFA, has this ISI paranoia begun to take root in Assam. It is in the exact same vein as that of the CIA paranoia during the cold-war. Only now we have begun to learn how overblown it was. I don't dispute the fact of ISI's dirty record. So is RAW's. But ISI cannot be THAT powerful. ISI today is the code-word for demonizing everything associated with Islam. And its cultivated fear is an essential GLUE to hold the tattered bonds of Indian nationalism together. This is what ULFA has done for Assam. The rest of the country has grown in leaps and bounds. But Assam is still miles behind. Its growth fettered by this cankerous grwoth called ULFA. *** That argument is another propaganda designed by Indians and Indian apologist Oxomiyas. How will you answer to the question of Assam's condition BEFORE ULFA happened? Why was it so? Can you tell me, with a straight face that if ULFA disappeared today, tomorrow Assam's prosperity will take off the ground ? That its problems will disappear like a bad dream? Think about that Mohan. How come in this net only you speak for the ULFA, as if you can read their minds and speak on their behalf? *** First off, I don't speak FOR ULFA. Nor am I a mind-reader, ULFA's or others'. But I am informed. And my information is not based on Indian propaganda or Assam establishment's propaganda. It used to be that I too thought and spoke like you guys regarding ULFA at one time. But pretty soon I began to see, right here thru Assamnet what has been going on . And I dug deeper. More I sought, more I found. And thus my entire outlook changed to where it is today. That is why I wrote
[Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Mahanta da Salute Jyatirmay posed some questions-: - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public places? - Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons? You first did your patented qualitative analysis of these questions to classify them as dumb, dumber and dumbest. But let me assure you, many people in Assam are asking these seemingly dumb questions. While trying to work out intelligent responses to these dumb questions, you came out with not dumb; but some very disgusting explanations. And in the process you: Justified ULFAs extortion as a form of TAXATION Endorsed the hobnobbing with ISI and BDesh Jehadis as a STRATEGIC ALLAINCE Defended the killing of children and civilians as a modus operandi of the CONFLICT. Can we go back to your intelligent responses to these dumb questions one by one? TAXATION Try explaining this taxation scheme to those belonging to the samples I have given below. I am just limiting to few-with little effort I can post to you some copies of extortion notices (sorry tax advices) also. 1) This guy from humble background from Abhayapuri by grace of reservation/education in an engineering college gets a job in Public sector (OIL-Duliajan). Settles down, gets married and commits his first mistake of family life-taking an easy PSU provided loan buys a brand new Maruti 800 (it was late eighties). The happiness was short lived-the new car was whisked away never to be seen again for Xongothon activities. Served him right for being materialistic!! 2) Try explaining this taxation to tea tribes who have to resort to strike every year for timely payment of few thousands of rupees as Puja bonus where as their employers have to pay millions of rupees to these outfits. By the way as you can see-the polarization is complete now. These guys will rip you apart if you talk of independence and taxation. There is no solidarity-leave alone on the ULFA front but also on the army atrocities on innocent people as long as people dying are from the other side of the fence. 3) Or to the GMC trained Assamese government doctor posted in Diphu donating part of his monthly salary to UPDS coffer. 4) Or to this Assamese teacher in NC Hills (few of the last remaining breed-will be forced to rush to plain as soon as Dimaraji is claimed) who is visited by Hindi speaking DHD cadres every month. 5) Or to those contractors who still dare to do some theeka thukali in Bodoland. By the way is there any rare instance of this taxed money being used for a purpose like monetary help to those innocent people killed by armed forces in the name of ULFA hunting? Do you know of any instances? STRATEGIC ALLINACE Mahanta da you gave a good justification why some of the ULFA leaders are holed up in BDesh. Strategic reason-good reasoning! Ram da unnecessarily lambasted you on this. Can I ask you a personal question? How far will you go on endorsing such spineless strategic alliance where the voice of the protagonist gets muffled by those pulling the strings? And if tomorrow they take this BDesh/ISI aided anti-India stance to extreme and declare that they would like to see Assam as an independent IRA (Islamic Republic of Assam) asking a segment of squabbling people forgo their religious independence for the sake of national independence of Assam. Will you still support them and endorse this as a strategic shift. Or you have set some limit up to which you will go on supporting ULFAs strategic alliance and then no further. No it is not a trap question for you. May be your personal response will give us an indication of importance the proponents place on various binding identities on which they seek to hold together the people in an independent nation. On my part personally I would welcome such declaration like IRA-it will at least remove some ambiguity about what kind of nation ULFA wants. Secular is no different from what we have now. BDesh sheltered and ISI supported (no first hand info-just what I read from newspaper) ULFA can not afford to declare Assam as a Hindu nation. And as it stands Islam is the most widely practiced religion in Assam if you place it against the fragmented composite Hinduism practiced in Assam. From what I sense from your posts, religion is not much of an issue for some of the broad minded people. Can we do away with this Assamese language bit also and adopt an international language like
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Excellent points raised Chitta. I am sure C'da will come at y'all (as we say in Texas) with guns a-blazin. There is one slight correction that is needed But, I have often said that if the ulfa or some other group was really, really fighting for a cause, and with all sincerity, I would be the first one to at least give them the respect they deserve (even if I do not agree with their cause).* ** That part is mine, not C'da. But one would wish C'da would also something like that - am not holding my breath, though. --Ram da On 5/16/07, chittaranjan pathak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mahanta da Salute Jyatirmay posed some questions-: - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public places? - Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons? You first did your patented qualitative analysis of these questions to classify them as dumb, dumber and dumbest. But let me assure you, many people in Assam are asking these seemingly dumb questions. While trying to work out intelligent responses to these dumb questions, you came out with not dumb; but some very disgusting explanations. And in the process you: Justified ULFA's extortion as a form of TAXATION Endorsed the hobnobbing with ISI and BDesh Jehadis as a STRATEGIC ALLAINCE Defended the killing of children and civilians as a modus operandi of the CONFLICT. Can we go back to your intelligent responses to these dumb questions one by one? TAXATION Try explaining this taxation scheme to those belonging to the samples I have given below. I am just limiting to few-with little effort I can post to you some copies of extortion notices (sorry tax advices) also. 1) This guy from humble background from Abhayapuri by grace of reservation/education in an engineering college gets a job in Public sector (OIL-Duliajan). Settles down, gets married and commits his first mistake of family life-taking an easy PSU provided loan buys a brand new Maruti 800 (it was late eighties). The happiness was short lived-the new car was whisked away never to be seen again for Xongothon activities. Served him right for being materialistic!! 2) Try explaining this taxation to tea tribes who have to resort to strike every year for timely payment of few thousands of rupees as Puja bonus where as their employers have to pay millions of rupees to these outfits. By the way as you can see-the polarization is complete now. These guys will rip you apart if you talk of independence and taxation. There is no solidarity-leave alone on the ULFA front but also on the army atrocities on innocent people as long as people dying are from the other side of the fence. 3) Or to the GMC trained Assamese government doctor posted in Diphu donating part of his monthly salary to UPDS coffer. 4) Or to this Assamese teacher in NC Hills (few of the last remaining breed-will be forced to rush to plain as soon as Dimaraji is claimed) who is visited by Hindi speaking DHD cadres every month. 5) Or to those contractors who still dare to do some theeka thukali in Bodoland. By the way is there any rare instance of this taxed money being used for a purpose like monetary help to those innocent people killed by armed forces in the name of ULFA hunting? Do you know of any instances? STRATEGIC ALLINACE Mahanta da –you gave a good justification why some of the ULFA leaders are holed up in BDesh. Strategic reason-good reasoning! Ram da unnecessarily lambasted you on this. Can I ask you a personal question? How far will you go on endorsing such spineless strategic alliance where the voice of the protagonist gets muffled by those pulling the strings? And if tomorrow they take this BDesh/ISI aided anti-India stance to extreme and declare that they would like to see Assam as an independent IRA (Islamic Republic of Assam) asking a segment of squabbling people forgo their religious independence for the sake of national independence of Assam. Will you still support them and endorse this as a strategic shift. Or you have set some limit up to which you will go on supporting ULFA's strategic alliance and then no further. No it is not a trap question for you. May be your personal response will give us an indication of importance the proponents place on various binding identities on which they seek to hold together the people in an independent nation. On my part personally I would welcome such declaration like IRA-it will at least remove some ambiguity about what kind of nation ULFA wants. Secular is no different from what we have now. BDesh sheltered and ISI
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Good to hear from you Chitta. We ask QUESTIONS in a debate like this to prove or disprove a point, or to help lead someone to a find an answer or a solution. JS's post supposedly was about End this disease called ULFA Fine! He had two prescriptions: A: Wipe out ULFA militarily. B: Send ULFA sympathizers to prison. Do YOU , as a mature and informed adult, able to reason; believe those recommendations would bring about the results of his or your or Ram's or all the others' ( who have chimed in with an array of responses and posed questions of yours truly) desires ? If not, what are your recommendations? What do YOU bring to the table? How do you see it resolved? All those questions you all pose at me, designed to make ULFA look like a bunch of thugs and rogues , not to mention traitors to your Indian-ness defined by a Hinduttwa inspired animus towards Pakistan or even B'Desh , while congratulating each other on your intellectual marksmanship with the perception that you had me on the ropes, mean: * That you all are frustrated and at wit's end on how to end the conflict. * ULFA maybe all things you attempt to portray them as, and even worse, but HOW does that solve the problem? * If you are trying to convince me or Mukul Mahanta that ULFA is what YOU all portray them as and convert us to your side to badger ULFA or make them look bad in the internet, it still would not solve the problem, would it? * Taunting is something indulged in by children and immature adults, when they are unable to get their way with an adversary. Do you think ULFA will keel over or disappear because of such taunting or from the barrage of insults that you all heap on them? It is an abject display of clueless-ness, that's all. Don't you think it is unseemly? Just like you all, I too want the conflict to end. But not on YOUR ( by this I include all of you who have vented your clueless frustrations ) terms, a surrender to Indian interests. I would like to see ULFA obtain for Assam the rights to re-form its governance to a modern, truly democratic state with a rule of law and the right to have full control over its resources. Those of you who are satisfied with your vision of an Assam as an Indian colony to be exploited by outsiders with a few in Assam sharing in the loot, as things are today, that is your burden. There are those of us who are not handicapped by such a mindset, will continue to speak up for Assam's rights. Take care. m-da At 2:45 AM -0700 5/16/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote: Content-Type: text/html X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by offsite.elitehosts.com id l4G9jkoD022073 Mahanta da Salute Jyatirmay posed some questions-: - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public places? - Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons? You first did your patented qualitative analysis of these questions to classify them as dumb, dumber and dumbest. But let me assure you, many people in Assam are asking these seemingly dumb questions. While trying to work out intelligent responses to these dumb questions, you came out with not dumb; but some very disgusting explanations. And in the process you: Justified ULFAs extortion as a form of TAXATION Endorsed the hobnobbing with ISI and BDesh Jehadis as a STRATEGIC ALLAINCE Defended the killing of children and civilians as a modus operandi of the CONFLICT. Can we go back to your intelligent responses to these dumb questions one by one? TAXATION Try explaining this taxation scheme to those belonging to the samples I have given below. I am just limiting to few-with little effort I can post to you some copies of extortion notices (sorry tax advices) also. 1) This guy from humble background from Abhayapuri by grace of reservation/education in an engineering college gets a job in Public sector (OIL-Duliajan). Settles down, gets married and commits his first mistake of family life-taking an easy PSU provided loan buys a brand new Maruti 800 (it was late eighties). The happiness was short lived-the new car was whisked away never to be seen again for Xongothon activities. Served him right for being materialistic!! 2) Try explaining this taxation to tea tribes who have to resort to strike every year for timely payment of few thousands of rupees as Puja bonus where as their employers have to pay millions of rupees to these outfits. By
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
I believe that Ram has explained the points very aptly. Just adding a few comments. *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? I do not hear the Nagas, Manipuris blowing up their own population in the name of freedom struggle. They may have had conflicts within their groups and may have fought and killed rival group members but never have they targeted the general population. Would you still believe in their cause and their means had you lost a family member in one of their indiscriminate blasts? I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? Even in India's fight for independence we have had true revolutionaries who may have gone out of the country to seek help to fight the enemy( British ) but they have come back to the country to fight for the cause they believed in. In ULFA's case the leaders have simply vanished from the battle zone and surrendered themselves to become pawns of Bangladeshi agents. - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. Mr Mahanta, try telling that to someone who has lost a loved one by ULFA's guns or their blasts. It is not hard to realize that there is no cause they are fighting for. The ULFA leaders are prominent Bangladeshi citizens now and living up their life with extortion money while their lower rungs are dodging bullets, army and the people in general. Mr Mahanta, you would do well to realize the ground facts. The Bodos, Karbis, Dimasas, Bengalis( from the Barak valley) do not support the ULFA nor have they given them the onus to act/speak on their behalf. A few Assamese may still feel for the terrorists but they are a dying breed. I would have thought there is more support for the outfit among the Assamese citizens in the US, the lack of response to my questions seem to suggest otherwise. J.Sharma On 15/05/2007, at 9:40 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? Let me try! First of, the ulfa cannot really be considered revolionaries. A revolution (Like the French etc) are a mass-scale uprising of some sort against an establishment. The ulfa (as some would like to elevate) is nowhere close to that lable So, in that context, modern revolutions have always been about protecting the masses against tyrants. In the Assam context, can you give some stark examples where such a thing has happened? And yes, C'da why is these home-grown revoltionaries hell bent on killing and looting from Assamese people (and don't forget Dhemaji) - now there was a great example of your revolutionaries giving up blood treasure (of course, it matters little that blood spilled was not theirs). I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? If the 'leaders' were holed up in B'desh and making war plans/ strategic plans against the big, bad ogre called India, it may have carried some semblence of resptability - but to hole up elsewhere, goad/egg other to the battles, and all the while amass huge personal wealth, (as reported by the US think tank - Stratfor. com), getting help from BD intel and ISI (who will just as easily slit an Assamese throat as they would an Indian) is beyond me. So, now this holing up in Bangladesh is really a strategic plan - could have knocked me out with a feather! How could I have missed that First off, if 'THEY' were residing in a foreign land, why is it that India and Indians claim ULFA is fighting in Assam? Isn't that a contradiction? I am just trying here - don't know exactly what JS meant. Why is this a contradiction - the leaders stay in BD - making the big war plans, while the low-level cadres do the dirty job in Assam. *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. You may not agree with their cause. We have all been hearing about this big cause for a long time. Then why is that the whole of Assam have NOT joined and or signed on
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
The Crocodile crying from its lair: http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/details.asp?id=may1507/at04 while continuing to kill innocents - parents, brothers, sisters, everybody http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/details.asp?id=may1507/at03 Rgds, Sandip - Original Message From: Jyotirmoy Sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 9:14:19 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA I believe that Ram has explained the points very aptly. Just adding a few comments. *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? I do not hear the Nagas, Manipuris blowing up their own population in the name of freedom struggle. They may have had conflicts within their groups and may have fought and killed rival group members but never have they targeted the general population. Would you still believe in their cause and their means had you lost a family member in one of their indiscriminate blasts? I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? Even in India's fight for independence we have had true revolutionaries who may have gone out of the country to seek help to fight the enemy( British ) but they have come back to the country to fight for the cause they believed in. In ULFA's case the leaders have simply vanished from the battle zone and surrendered themselves to become pawns of Bangladeshi agents. - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. Mr Mahanta, try telling that to someone who has lost a loved one by ULFA's guns or their blasts. It is not hard to realize that there is no cause they are fighting for. The ULFA leaders are prominent Bangladeshi citizens now and living up their life with extortion money while their lower rungs are dodging bullets, army and the people in general. Mr Mahanta, you would do well to realize the ground facts. The Bodos, Karbis, Dimasas, Bengalis( from the Barak valley) do not support the ULFA nor have they given them the onus to act/speak on their behalf. A few Assamese may still feel for the terrorists but they are a dying breed. I would have thought there is more support for the outfit among the Assamese citizens in the US, the lack of response to my questions seem to suggest otherwise. J.Sharma On 15/05/2007, at 9:40 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? Let me try! First of, the ulfa cannot really be considered revolionaries. A revolution (Like the French etc) are a mass-scale uprising of some sort against an establishment. The ulfa (as some would like to elevate) is nowhere close to that lable So, in that context, modern revolutions have always been about protecting the masses against tyrants. In the Assam context, can you give some stark examples where such a thing has happened? And yes, C'da why is these home-grown revoltionaries hell bent on killing and looting from Assamese people (and don't forget Dhemaji) - now there was a great example of your revolutionaries giving up blood treasure (of course, it matters little that blood spilled was not theirs). I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? If the 'leaders' were holed up in B'desh and making war plans/strategic plans against the big, bad ogre called India, it may have carried some semblence of resptability - but to hole up elsewhere, goad/egg other to the battles, and all the while amass huge personal wealth, (as reported by the US think tank - Stratfor. com), getting help from BD intel and ISI (who will just as easily slit an Assamese throat as they would an Indian) is beyond me. So, now this holing up in Bangladesh is really a strategic plan - could have knocked me out with a feather! How could I have missed that First off, if 'THEY' were residing in a foreign land, why is it that India and Indians claim ULFA is fighting in Assam? Isn't that a contradiction? I am just trying here
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Js: I am with you in this. I support your arguement. Ulfa probably began with a just cause. Now they have lost direction and made it to be a lucrative business by amassing wealth in a foreign country. Once upon a time illegal immigrant Bangladeshi's was a big problem. Now that doesn't seems to be a problem because ULFA is sitting in their country. Mohan R. Palleti I believe that Ram has explained the points very aptly. Just adding a few comments. *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? I do not hear the Nagas, Manipuris blowing up their own population in the name of freedom struggle. They may have had conflicts within their groups and may have fought and killed rival group members but never have they targeted the general population. Would you still believe in their cause and their means had you lost a family member in one of their indiscriminate blasts? I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? Even in India's fight for independence we have had true revolutionaries who may have gone out of the country to seek help to fight the enemy( British ) but they have come back to the country to fight for the cause they believed in. In ULFA's case the leaders have simply vanished from the battle zone and surrendered themselves to become pawns of Bangladeshi agents. - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. Mr Mahanta, try telling that to someone who has lost a loved one by ULFA's guns or their blasts. It is not hard to realize that there is no cause they are fighting for. The ULFA leaders are prominent Bangladeshi citizens now and living up their life with extortion money while their lower rungs are dodging bullets, army and the people in general. Mr Mahanta, you would do well to realize the ground facts. The Bodos, Karbis, Dimasas, Bengalis( from the Barak valley) do not support the ULFA nor have they given them the onus to act/speak on their behalf. A few Assamese may still feel for the terrorists but they are a dying breed. I would have thought there is more support for the outfit among the Assamese citizens in the US, the lack of response to my questions seem to suggest otherwise. J.Sharma On 15/05/2007, at 9:40 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? Let me try! First of, the ulfa cannot really be considered revolionaries. A revolution (Like the French etc) are a mass-scale uprising of some sort against an establishment. The ulfa (as some would like to elevate) is nowhere close to that lable So, in that context, modern revolutions have always been about protecting the masses against tyrants. In the Assam context, can you give some stark examples where such a thing has happened? And yes, C'da why is these home-grown revoltionaries hell bent on killing and looting from Assamese people (and don't forget Dhemaji) - now there was a great example of your revolutionaries giving up blood treasure (of course, it matters little that blood spilled was not theirs). I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? If the 'leaders' were holed up in B'desh and making war plans/ strategic plans against the big, bad ogre called India, it may have carried some semblence of resptability - but to hole up elsewhere, goad/egg other to the battles, and all the while amass huge personal wealth, (as reported by the US think tank - Stratfor. com), getting help from BD intel and ISI (who will just as easily slit an Assamese throat as they would an Indian) is beyond me. So, now this holing up in Bangladesh is really a strategic plan - could have knocked me out with a feather! How could I have missed that First off, if 'THEY' were residing in a foreign land, why is it that India and Indians claim ULFA is fighting in Assam? Isn't that a contradiction? I am just trying here - don't know exactly what JS meant. Why is this a contradiction - the leaders stay in BD - making the big war
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Sandip, In cases like this, one also needs to blame the media. They give way too much coverage to what crooks, dressed up in 'freedom-fighter' garbs are saying. Just ignoring them when possible is the best thing. But look at this - here, he is calling forpeace - but then kills 2 more people. One often gets confused whether we are reading about Bagdad or Guwahati. :) --Ram da On 5/15/07, SANDIP DUTTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Crocodile crying from its lair: http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/details.asp?id=may1507/at04 while continuing to kill innocents - parents, brothers, sisters, everybody http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/details.asp?id=may1507/at03 Rgds, Sandip - Original Message From: Jyotirmoy Sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 9:14:19 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA I believe that Ram has explained the points very aptly. Just adding a few comments. *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? I do not hear the Nagas, Manipuris blowing up their own population in the name of freedom struggle. They may have had conflicts within their groups and may have fought and killed rival group members but never have they targeted the general population. Would you still believe in their cause and their means had you lost a family member in one of their indiscriminate blasts? I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? Even in India's fight for independence we have had true revolutionaries who may have gone out of the country to seek help to fight the enemy( British ) but they have come back to the country to fight for the cause they believed in. In ULFA's case the leaders have simply vanished from the battle zone and surrendered themselves to become pawns of Bangladeshi agents. - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. Mr Mahanta, try telling that to someone who has lost a loved one by ULFA's guns or their blasts. It is not hard to realize that there is no cause they are fighting for. The ULFA leaders are prominent Bangladeshi citizens now and living up their life with extortion money while their lower rungs are dodging bullets, army and the people in general. Mr Mahanta, you would do well to realize the ground facts. The Bodos, Karbis, Dimasas, Bengalis( from the Barak valley) do not support the ULFA nor have they given them the onus to act/speak on their behalf. A few Assamese may still feel for the terrorists but they are a dying breed. I would have thought there is more support for the outfit among the Assamese citizens in the US, the lack of response to my questions seem to suggest otherwise. J.Sharma On 15/05/2007, at 9:40 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? Let me try! First of, the ulfa cannot really be considered revolionaries. A revolution (Like the French etc) are a mass-scale uprising of some sort against an establishment. The ulfa (as some would like to elevate) is nowhere close to that lable So, in that context, modern revolutions have always been about protecting the masses against tyrants. In the Assam context, can you give some stark examples where such a thing has happened? And yes, C'da why is these home-grown revoltionaries hell bent on killing and looting from Assamese people (and don't forget Dhemaji) - now there was a great example of your revolutionaries giving up blood treasure (of course, it matters little that blood spilled was not theirs). I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? If the 'leaders' were holed up in B'desh and making war plans/strategic plans against the big, bad ogre called India, it may have carried some semblence of resptability - but to hole up elsewhere, goad/egg other to the battles, and all the while amass huge personal wealth, (as reported by the US think tank - Stratfor. com), getting help from BD intel and ISI (who will just as easily slit
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
You are right. I too like Mukul da's one-liners. Like this one here: What India needed badly are TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION TO RE- unite and set History RIGHT.And as Sarkozy saidSend India-all of its 1100 million- Back to Work/ excel worldwide I AM AVAILABLE TO HEAD IT And CP, you guys are doing fine down under. --Ram da On 5/15/07, chittaranjan pathak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Shri Mukul Mama We like your one liners. and leave him there- as this one -in the Australian Desert(Assam 's Indian Rupee cannot provide him any subsistence) to polish White Man's Shoes? By the way will you hazard a guess on our very own NRAs in Bangladesh. Whose shoes or boots are they polishing or licking? Regards Chittaranjan Pathak Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Ram: First of, the ulfa cannot really be considered revolionaries. A revolution (Like the French etc) are a mass-scale uprising of some sort against an establishment. The ulfa (as some would like to elevate) is nowhere close to that lable *** It was not *I* who assigned that label and then attempted to demolish it. You can or JS can or any old fool can arbitrarily assign a label to anyone, then demolish it, couldn't they? But what VALUE would that have? Imagine me assigning a label on you as, say, an Indian patriot, and then go on to tell the world that you are not an Indian to begin with, that you are an American. That you claim you are are an Assamese, but by parental ethnicity you are really a Tamil. But what value would such an argument have ? Would I be wrong in surmising that it would be zero, zit, nada? You catch my drift? And yes, C'da why is these home-grown revoltionaries hell bent on killing and looting from Assamese people (and don't forget Dhemaji) - now there was a great example of your revolutionaries giving up blood treasure (of course, it matters little that blood spilled was not theirs). *** What you see as looting, could be presented by ULFA as TAXING, tax that the payer does not pay to what is fancied to be the 'legitimate' government. What the two-book-keeping entities do not pay to GoI, goes to ULFA, who employs those left unemployed by India's rob-the-poor-masses-to-enrich-the-few-economy, keeps the economy running by buying what it needs to feed the soldiers. I hope you read the World Bank report on black-money's corrosive effect on the Indian economy. Further more on the looting front, how do you see the Indian elected reps' role, in looting the treasury? They are WORSE offenders, because they steal wearing that robe of respectability as the people's reps., on the sly. But I see no outrage in that from the 'fair and balanced crowd',or demands to send them to prison, or to send their sympathizers to prison. In fact I will not be surprised if the scions of some of these thieves in white are not right here amongst us urging ULFA sympathizers to be sent to prison. We surely know that most everybody who holds some important position in Indian govts. have a sopn or daughter or a close relative in some western countries as immigrant, 'green-card holder' or citizens or H1Bs. So much for their faith in their nation. Yes, Dhemaji is a stigma to ULFA. They should not have done that, IF it WAS indeed ULFA who did that deliberately. But parties to warfare do terrible things, sometimes willfully, at other times inadvertently. IF I remember correctly you took great pride in the Indian military's repeated OOpses on its civilian killings in fake encounters, as if those were slips, that never happened before, or never will in the future. Do you see a difference between GoI and ULFA? And if GOI can do no better than ULFA, where does its apologists get that halo of 'holier-than-thou', to sport? In fact GOI and its stooges, Assam govts. past or present have actively contributed to such mindless violence. Had Assam Govt. leaders NOT attempted to prove that uLFA had no teeth by putting these children of Dhemaji in harms way, in spite of warnings by ULFA not to hold those parades, this tragedy could not have happened. Not to justify it however. But I don't recall hearing from the 'fair and balanced crowd' a word on WHO was EXPLOITING these children. Then there is this other thing that the thoughtful should not avoid considering: When the Indian army operations lead to separating the leadership from the operating elements, it creates an environment of private entrepreneurship by inexperienced and poorly educated rank-and-file manning the battlefronts. How do you know that it was sanctioned by ULFA leadership, and not impromptu action by someone at location? That is war for you. We have all been hearing about this big cause for a long time. Then why is that the whole of Assam have NOT joined and or signed on the dotted line? Do you know why? *** Of course I do. In fact anyone able to reason ought to: That is because the establishment is not going to give up its rights to the feeding trough. And GoI has been pumping unaccounted for billions to keep that sector on its side. Never mind the rest. I remember Chittaranjan's assurance that a reasoned public dialogue on the need for Assam's sovereignty is not impossible in Assam media. But he could not get my posts aired in Assam, could he? I also tried, but could not. The fear of reprisals from the govt. is present and powerful. That is how it works in a violent CONFLICT. That is WHY it is a violent CONFLICT. Whew! Now that somehow makes us all feel better. Of course, all the people of Assam gave the green signal for ULFA to go violent and now it (the ulfa) acts as the sole torch bearer for God country. *** That was NOT meant to make you
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Hi Jyotirmoy, You are hitting Chandanbabu real hard; where it hurts. CM and MM behaves like paid agents of the Bangladeshis. In whole expanse of lungiwalas, they see no design. It's like closing the eyes to ward off a tiger, thinking, the tiger will not see if they close their eyes. Moreover, I found out, none of both Mr. MM and CM's future generations are going to stay in the independent Oxom, they are inciting our 'burbok' boys to fight for. -VP --- Jyotirmoy Sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that Ram has explained the points very aptly. Just adding a few comments. *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? I do not hear the Nagas, Manipuris blowing up their own population in the name of freedom struggle. They may have had conflicts within their groups and may have fought and killed rival group members but never have they targeted the general population. Would you still believe in their cause and their means had you lost a family member in one of their indiscriminate blasts? I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? Even in India's fight for independence we have had true revolutionaries who may have gone out of the country to seek help to fight the enemy( British ) but they have come back to the country to fight for the cause they believed in. In ULFA's case the leaders have simply vanished from the battle zone and surrendered themselves to become pawns of Bangladeshi agents. - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. Mr Mahanta, try telling that to someone who has lost a loved one by ULFA's guns or their blasts. It is not hard to realize that there is no cause they are fighting for. The ULFA leaders are prominent Bangladeshi citizens now and living up their life with extortion money while their lower rungs are dodging bullets, army and the people in general. Mr Mahanta, you would do well to realize the ground facts. The Bodos, Karbis, Dimasas, Bengalis( from the Barak valley) do not support the ULFA nor have they given them the onus to act/speak on their behalf. A few Assamese may still feel for the terrorists but they are a dying breed. I would have thought there is more support for the outfit among the Assamese citizens in the US, the lack of response to my questions seem to suggest otherwise. J.Sharma On 15/05/2007, at 9:40 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? Let me try! First of, the ulfa cannot really be considered revolionaries. A revolution (Like the French etc) are a mass-scale uprising of some sort against an establishment. The ulfa (as some would like to elevate) is nowhere close to that lable So, in that context, modern revolutions have always been about protecting the masses against tyrants. In the Assam context, can you give some stark examples where such a thing has happened? And yes, C'da why is these home-grown revoltionaries hell bent on killing and looting from Assamese people (and don't forget Dhemaji) - now there was a great example of your revolutionaries giving up blood treasure (of course, it matters little that blood spilled was not theirs). I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? If the 'leaders' were holed up in B'desh and making war plans/ strategic plans against the big, bad ogre called India, it may have carried some semblence of resptability - but to hole up elsewhere, goad/egg other to the battles, and all the while amass huge personal wealth, (as reported by the US think tank - Stratfor. com), getting help from BD intel and ISI (who will just as easily slit an Assamese throat as they would an Indian) is beyond me. So, now this holing up in Bangladesh is really a strategic plan - could
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Just my 2 cents here. I (and others) have frequent have online battles with C'da and in this net we have always enjoyed these tussles. And we have done this for many. many years. Both Mukul da and C'da are great, upright people in their own rights. They do bring in a lot of spirit, and often view points (that we may overlook, and not always agree) into these lively discussions. Yes, they do have views that often don't jell with many people - but then you really can't have an argument with people who agree with you, can you? :) --Ram On 5/15/07, vox populi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jyotirmoy, You are hitting Chandanbabu real hard; where it hurts. CM and MM behaves like paid agents of the Bangladeshis. In whole expanse of lungiwalas, they see no design. It's like closing the eyes to ward off a tiger, thinking, the tiger will not see if they close their eyes. Moreover, I found out, none of both Mr. MM and CM's future generations are going to stay in the independent Oxom, they are inciting our 'burbok' boys to fight for. -VP --- Jyotirmoy Sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that Ram has explained the points very aptly. Just adding a few comments. *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? I do not hear the Nagas, Manipuris blowing up their own population in the name of freedom struggle. They may have had conflicts within their groups and may have fought and killed rival group members but never have they targeted the general population. Would you still believe in their cause and their means had you lost a family member in one of their indiscriminate blasts? I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? Even in India's fight for independence we have had true revolutionaries who may have gone out of the country to seek help to fight the enemy( British ) but they have come back to the country to fight for the cause they believed in. In ULFA's case the leaders have simply vanished from the battle zone and surrendered themselves to become pawns of Bangladeshi agents. - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. Mr Mahanta, try telling that to someone who has lost a loved one by ULFA's guns or their blasts. It is not hard to realize that there is no cause they are fighting for. The ULFA leaders are prominent Bangladeshi citizens now and living up their life with extortion money while their lower rungs are dodging bullets, army and the people in general. Mr Mahanta, you would do well to realize the ground facts. The Bodos, Karbis, Dimasas, Bengalis( from the Barak valley) do not support the ULFA nor have they given them the onus to act/speak on their behalf. A few Assamese may still feel for the terrorists but they are a dying breed. I would have thought there is more support for the outfit among the Assamese citizens in the US, the lack of response to my questions seem to suggest otherwise. J.Sharma On 15/05/2007, at 9:40 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? Let me try! First of, the ulfa cannot really be considered revolionaries. A revolution (Like the French etc) are a mass-scale uprising of some sort against an establishment. The ulfa (as some would like to elevate) is nowhere close to that lable So, in that context, modern revolutions have always been about protecting the masses against tyrants. In the Assam context, can you give some stark examples where such a thing has happened? And yes, C'da why is these home-grown revoltionaries hell bent on killing and looting from Assamese people (and don't forget Dhemaji) - now there was a great example of your revolutionaries giving up blood treasure (of course, it matters little that blood spilled was not theirs). I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? If the 'leaders' were holed up in B'desh and making war plans/
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
C'da *** Surely YOUR support or for that matter of others in your camp is NOT what ULFA has been surviving all these decades. Obviously it is from the support of those who you do not see or prefer not to recognize when you see them. Thus your definition of ULFA's 'sincerity' is quite irrelevant to the resolution of the conflict. yes, the ulfa has been around for a while. Now who is giving it arms, and intel - the Bangladeshi Intel and the Pakis who gives the money - well some give, while from others the ulfa taxes and there is always abduction as a revenue source. within the next few years, they wouldn't have to pretend to be patriots IF you and others are SEEKING a resolution to the conflict, then the question would be WHAT are you contributing to its resolution? I would suggest, give up the weapons, and come for talks, to arrive at some levels of compensation for the low/mid-level level misled cadres from the GOI - the cream should be be ready for prosecution according to the Constitution of India and pay the piper. But then - thats just old me. :) --Ram On 5/15/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: All you are reduced to doing is taunting ULFA or ULFA sympathizers, or mouthing off bravado-laden but meaningless slogans. One would think something is missing here. Yes, that does happen, like it does often with the GOI/GOA and India. But, I have often said that if the ulfa or some other group was really, really fighting for a cause, and with all sincereity, I would be the first one to at least give them the respect they deserve (even if I do not agree with their cause). *** Surely YOUR support or for that matter of others in your camp is NOT what ULFA has been surviving all these decades. Obviously it is from the support of those who you do not see or prefer not to recognize when you see them. Thus your definition of ULFA's 'sincerity' is quite irrelevant to the resolution of the conflict. IF you and others are SEEKING a resolution to the conflict, then the question would be WHAT are you contributing to its resolution? Again IF you believe the arguments that you proffer here, a regurgitation of the same old same old, or recommendations of JS or the 'wah-wah' from behind the bushes from whomever or the taunting of ULFA would be bringing the conflict to an end, then I have to guess you have something else coming :-). BTW, the label was an illustration, to drive home a point, to illustrate how it does nothing. c-da At 9:57 AM -0600 5/15/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: O' C'da Sorry to have you rankled so much - not my intention, but some of lousy my traits just slip by. The labels revolution, or revolutionary are not inventions of JS, me or you. The ULFA and many of its sympathizers use these terms whenever they feel its good to use them. Even the ulfa newsletter freely uses it. The insurgency they mount is often confused with a revoltion by some people. So, that is why it is important to separate issues here. We don;t want to groups (which don't deserve it) an aura status do we? Imagine me assigning a label on you as, say, an Indian patriot C'da - is this discussion about me? Didn't realize that. But if you feel better, you could always label the GOI/Desi-demokracy, and anything else (if you haven't already). And if that doesn't work, feel free to label me - these days, I have grown such a tough skin (like our Rhinos there) - nothing seems to stick. :) :) *** What you see as looting, could be presented by ULFA as TAXING, tax that the payer does not pay to what is fancied to be the 'legitimate' government. What the two-book-keeping entities do not pay to GoI, goes to ULFA, who employs those left unemployed by India's rob-the-poor-masses-to-enrich-the-few-economy, keeps the economy running by buying what it needs to feed the soldiers. I hope you read the World Bank report on black-money's corrosive effect on the Indian economy. Further more on the looting front, how do you see the Indian elected reps' role, in looting the treasury? Here, there are a couple of things that tell me my edumacation is wrong. One is that tax is usually levied by an authority (government civic body etc). It is so levied, so that things that they do with the money collected will supposedly help the community as a whole. I never knew a tax could also be used to line pockets for personal use (and not much else) Two. Yes, there are many bureaucrats/babus/ministers in the GOI and GOA who will rob th tax-paying public blind. But your justification has really caught me unawares (to say the least). You imply that ulfa collects money from tax-cheats who don't pay their share to the GOI. It then takes that excess money, employs the unemeployed, sends them to battle royal (from whence they often don't come back). Now, that is something. The GOI, I am sure is also
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Ram: I would suggest, give up the weapons, and come for talks, to arrive at some levels of compensation for the low/mid-level level misled cadres from the GOI - the cream should be be ready for prosecution according to the Constitution of India and pay the piper. But then - thats just old me. :) I understand Ram that it is you :-). Question is if you think it has a snowball's chance in hell to produce the outcomes of your desire? As thinking adults, we cannot NOT be mindful of that while we offer our prescriptions, could we? If we don't, then all we would be doing will be p***ing against the wind :-). c-da At 12:33 PM -0600 5/15/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da *** Surely YOUR support or for that matter of others in your camp is NOT what ULFA has been surviving all these decades. Obviously it is from the support of those who you do not see or prefer not to recognize when you see them. Thus your definition of ULFA's 'sincerity' is quite irrelevant to the resolution of the conflict. yes, the ulfa has been around for a while. Now who is giving it arms, and intel - the Bangladeshi Intel and the Pakis who gives the money - well some give, while from others the ulfa taxes and there is always abduction as a revenue source. within the next few years, they wouldn't have to pretend to be patriots IF you and others are SEEKING a resolution to the conflict, then the question would be WHAT are you contributing to its resolution? I would suggest, give up the weapons, and come for talks, to arrive at some levels of compensation for the low/mid-level level misled cadres from the GOI - the cream should be be ready for prosecution according to the Constitution of India and pay the piper. But then - thats just old me. :) --Ram On 5/15/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: All you are reduced to doing is taunting ULFA or ULFA sympathizers, or mouthing off bravado-laden but meaningless slogans. One would think something is missing here. Yes, that does happen, like it does often with the GOI/GOA and India. But, I have often said that if the ulfa or some other group was really, really fighting for a cause, and with all sincereity, I would be the first one to at least give them the respect they deserve (even if I do not agree with their cause). *** Surely YOUR support or for that matter of others in your camp is NOT what ULFA has been surviving all these decades. Obviously it is from the support of those who you do not see or prefer not to recognize when you see them. Thus your definition of ULFA's 'sincerity' is quite irrelevant to the resolution of the conflict. IF you and others are SEEKING a resolution to the conflict, then the question would be WHAT are you contributing to its resolution? Again IF you believe the arguments that you proffer here, a regurgitation of the same old same old, or recommendations of JS or the 'wah-wah' from behind the bushes from whomever or the taunting of ULFA would be bringing the conflict to an end, then I have to guess you have something else coming :-). BTW, the label was an illustration, to drive home a point, to illustrate how it does nothing. c-da At 9:57 AM -0600 5/15/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: O' C'da Sorry to have you rankled so much - not my intention, but some of lousy my traits just slip by. The labels revolution, or revolutionary are not inventions of JS, me or you. The ULFA and many of its sympathizers use these terms whenever they feel its good to use them. Even the ulfa newsletter freely uses it. The insurgency they mount is often confused with a revoltion by some people. So, that is why it is important to separate issues here. We don;t want to groups (which don't deserve it) an aura status do we? Imagine me assigning a label on you as, say, an Indian patriot C'da - is this discussion about me? Didn't realize that. But if you feel better, you could always label the GOI/Desi-demokracy, and anything else (if you haven't already). And if that doesn't work, feel free to label me - these days, I have grown such a tough skin (like our Rhinos there) - nothing seems to stick. :) :) *** What you see as looting, could be presented by ULFA as TAXING, tax that the payer does not pay to what is fancied to be the 'legitimate' government. What the two-book-keeping entities do not pay to GoI, goes to ULFA, who employs those left unemployed by India's rob-the-poor-masses-to-enrich-the-few-economy, keeps the economy running by buying what it needs to feed the soldiers. I hope you read the World Bank report on black-money's corrosive effect on the Indian economy. Further more on the looting front, how do you see the Indian elected reps' role, in looting the treasury? Here, there are a couple of things that tell me my edumacation is wrong. One is that tax is usually levied by an authority (government civic body etc). It is so levied, so that things that they do
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
I get your point. Umesh Jyotirmoy Sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After reading about the endless sequence of bomb blasts that this terrorist outfit is causing throughout Assam I cannot see how a sensible person can ever think of negotiating with such a terrorist outfit. The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. Those living abroad and found assisting the outfit in any way should be barred from entering Assam. Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace, prosperity and freedom on the other. What is even more surprising is that there are groups(read PCPIA and others) who have openly become the spokesperson of the outfit. They are never short in condemning when the Army kills a terrorist but hardly raise a voice when innocent people are getting slaughtered in their bomb blasts. Yes, it is true that the Army has killed and tortured innocent people in Assam but then the Army wouldn't be there in Assam if we didn't have the disease in the first place. Some questions which a pro-ULFA supporter may care to answer: - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public places? - Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? This problem has gone on for too long. If Punjab militancy could be eliminated I don't see why Assam should be different. Assam is better off with the freedom we have under India than under these terrorists called ULFA. Jyotirmoy ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org Umesh Sharma Washington D.C. 1-202-215-4328 [Cell] Ed.M. - International Education Policy Harvard Graduate School of Education, Harvard University, Class of 2005 http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/ - Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today.___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Dexh bulile adexh nalage...These people couldnot distinguish between Oxom full of Miyas and Oxom full of Oxo-miyas..:) we should institute two awards..Badan Borphukon award for best traitor award for resident Oxomiya and Baduli Phukon award for best NRA traitor. My nominations are obvious..:)) --- SANDIP DUTTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :)) - Original Message From: Nayanjyoti Medhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]; assam@assamnet.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:59:00 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA C Da, Pranaam! Sorry to butt in like I always do but what Mr. Jyotirmoy Sharma has written is something that needs to be answered (We never got our answers, although we put some relevant question, but let us not get distracted from the core issue). As usual, his questions will remain in the background and the argument will go somewhere else and get personal like it always does in this forum. What Vox Populi (I am not aware of his/her real nomenclature) has put forward as hi/her view is also not far from truth (the reasons maybe different though). But the fact remains that does the people of Assam deserve to be killed by their own kin and kith. Maybe they do. C Da, Is it not time for you to come back to your motherland and face the questions put by so and so head on. Regards, Nayan On 5/15/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: All you are reduced to doing is taunting ULFA or ULFA sympathizers, or mouthing off bravado-laden but meaningless slogans. One would think something is missing here. Yes, that does happen, like it does often with the GOI/GOA and India. But, I have often said that if the ulfa or some other group was really, really fighting for a cause, and with all sincereity, I would be the first one to at least give them the respect they deserve (even if I do not agree with their cause). *** Surely YOUR support or for that matter of others in your camp is NOT what ULFA has been surviving all these decades. Obviously it is from the support of those who you do not see or prefer not to recognize when you see them. Thus your definition of ULFA's 'sincerity' is quite irrelevant to the resolution of the conflict. IF you and others are SEEKING a resolution to the conflict, then the question would be WHAT are you contributing to its resolution? Again IF you believe the arguments that you proffer here, a regurgitation of the same old same old, or recommendations of JS or the 'wah-wah' from behind the bushes from whomever or the taunting of ULFA would be bringing the conflict to an end, then I have to guess you have something else coming :-). BTW, the label was an illustration, to drive home a point, to illustrate how it does nothing. c-da At 9:57 AM -0600 5/15/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: O' C'da Sorry to have you rankled so much - not my intention, but some of lousy my traits just slip by. The labels revolution, or revolutionary are not inventions of JS, me or you. The ULFA and many of its sympathizers use these terms whenever they feel its good to use them. Even the ulfa newsletter freely uses it. The insurgency they mount is often confused with a revoltion by some people. So, that is why it is important to separate issues here. We don;t want to groups (which don't deserve it) an aura status do we? Imagine me assigning a label on you as, say, an Indian patriot C'da - is this discussion about me? Didn't realize that. But if you feel better, you could always label the GOI/Desi-demokracy, and anything else (if you haven't already). And if that doesn't work, feel free to label me - these days, I have grown such a tough skin (like our Rhinos there) - nothing seems to stick. :) :) *** What you see as looting, could be presented by ULFA as TAXING, tax that the payer does not pay to what is fancied to be the 'legitimate' government. What the two-book-keeping entities do not pay to GoI, goes to ULFA, who employs those left unemployed by India's rob-the-poor-masses-to-enrich-the-few-economy, keeps the economy running by buying what it needs to feed the soldiers. I hope you read the World Bank report on black-money's corrosive effect on the Indian economy. Further more on the looting front, how do you see the Indian elected reps' role, in looting the treasury? Here, there are a couple of things that tell me my edumacation is wrong. One is that tax is usually levied by an authority (government civic body etc). It is so levied, so that things that they do with the money collected will supposedly help the community as a whole. I never knew a tax could also be used to line pockets for personal use (and not much else) Two. Yes, there are many
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
So do you support ULFA's attack on Hindi speaking people in Jan 2007 which killed 67 people. Not at all. They were innocent daily wage earners who were killed to create a vacumn for more BDesis to fill the void. But in my conversation I was just referring to ULFA's attack on Assamese people as they(ULFA) seem to have got the approval from some of us to fight for our cause. I don't remember giving that right to any organization. Jyotirmoy On 16/05/2007, at 9:53 AM, umesh sharma wrote: Jyotirmoy-da, So do you support ULFA's attack on Hindi speaking people in Jan 2007 which killed 67 people. *** I do not hear the Nagas, Manipuris blowing up their own population in the name of freedom struggle. They may have had conflicts within their groups and may have fought and killed rival group members but never have they targeted the general population. Umesh Jyotirmoy Sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that Ram has explained the points very aptly. Just adding a few comments. *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? I do not hear the Nagas, Manipuris blowing up their own population in the name of freedom struggle. They may have had conflicts within their groups and may have fought and killed rival group members but never have they targeted the general population. Would you still believe in their cause and their means had you lost a family member in one of their indiscriminate blasts? I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? Even in India's fight for independence we have had true revolutionaries who may have gone out of the country to seek help to fight the enemy( British ) but they have come back to the country to fight for the cause they believed in. In ULFA's case the leaders have simply vanished from the battle zone and surrendered themselves to become pawns of Bangladeshi agents. - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. Mr Mahanta, try telling that to someone who has lost a loved one by ULFA's guns or their blasts. It is not hard to realize that there is no cause they are fighting for. The ULFA leaders are prominent Bangladeshi citizens now and living up their life with extortion money while their lower rungs are dodging bullets, army and the people in general. Mr Mahanta, you would do well to realize the ground facts. The Bodos, Karbis, Dimasas, Bengalis( from the Barak valley) do not support the ULFA nor have they given them the onus to act/speak on their behalf. A few Assamese may still feel for the terrorists but they are a dying breed. I would have thought there is more support for the outfit among the Assamese citizens in the US, the lack of response to my questions seem to suggest otherwise. J.Sharma On 15/05/2007, at 9:40 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? Let me try! First of, the ulfa cannot really be considered revolionaries. A revolution (Like the French etc) are a mass-scale uprising of some sort against an establishment. The ulfa (as some would like to elevate) is nowhere close to that lable So, in that context, modern revolutions have always been about protecting the masses against tyrants. In the Assam context, can you give some stark examples where such a thing has happened? And yes, C'da why is these home-grown revoltionaries hell bent on killing and looting from Assamese people (and don't forget Dhemaji) - now there was a great example of your revolutionaries giving up blood treasure (of course, it matters little that blood spilled was not theirs). I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? If the 'leaders' were holed up in B'desh and making war plans/ strategic plans against the big, bad ogre called India, it may have carried some semblence of resptability - but to hole up elsewhere, goad/egg other to the battles, and all the while amass huge personal wealth, (as reported
[Assam] End this disease called ULFA
After reading about the endless sequence of bomb blasts that this terrorist outfit is causing throughout Assam I cannot see how a sensible person can ever think of negotiating with such a terrorist outfit. The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. Those living abroad and found assisting the outfit in any way should be barred from entering Assam. Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace, prosperity and freedom on the other. What is even more surprising is that there are groups(read PCPIA and others) who have openly become the spokesperson of the outfit. They are never short in condemning when the Army kills a terrorist but hardly raise a voice when innocent people are getting slaughtered in their bomb blasts. Yes, it is true that the Army has killed and tortured innocent people in Assam but then the Army wouldn't be there in Assam if we didn't have the disease in the first place. Some questions which a pro-ULFA supporter may care to answer: - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public places? - Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? This problem has gone on for too long. If Punjab militancy could be eliminated I don't see why Assam should be different. Assam is better off with the freedom we have under India than under these terrorists called ULFA. Jyotirmoy ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Welcome JS to the Assamnet. That was a pretty straight forward post, if there was one, in these forums in a long time. I welcome that fresh air of audacity :) There are a few die-hard ulfa supporters and sympathizers in this forum too. I am sure some of them will respond to your post, and so will wait to see waht they write. --Ram On 5/14/07, Jyotirmoy Sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After reading about the endless sequence of bomb blasts that this terrorist outfit is causing throughout Assam I cannot see how a sensible person can ever think of negotiating with such a terrorist outfit. The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. Those living abroad and found assisting the outfit in any way should be barred from entering Assam. Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace, prosperity and freedom on the other. What is even more surprising is that there are groups(read PCPIA and others) who have openly become the spokesperson of the outfit. They are never short in condemning when the Army kills a terrorist but hardly raise a voice when innocent people are getting slaughtered in their bomb blasts. Yes, it is true that the Army has killed and tortured innocent people in Assam but then the Army wouldn't be there in Assam if we didn't have the disease in the first place. Some questions which a pro-ULFA supporter may care to answer: - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public places? - Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? This problem has gone on for too long. If Punjab militancy could be eliminated I don't see why Assam should be different. Assam is better off with the freedom we have under India than under these terrorists called ULFA. Jyotirmoy ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Hi Ram: Saw your comments to Sharma's anguished outburst with his wishful recommendations and conclusions. Good that Sharma is letting off steam. But as an informed and experienced NRA, I would have hoped to see you explaining to Sharma the profound flaws in his line of thinking, even though I know you are unable to free your own thought processes entirely from a blind devotion to the derelict Indian state :-). If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, are all it takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would have been no problem left in Assam , not to mention India. So, what is missing? Don't you think you, as someone more knowledgeable, and more experienced than obviously Sharma is,; have an obligation to help him see things in a more mature light; instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA sympathizers, who will only make the issue more muddy :-)? c-da At 6:04 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Welcome JS to the Assamnet. That was a pretty straight forward post, if there was one, in these forums in a long time. I welcome that fresh air of audacity :) There are a few die-hard ulfa supporters and sympathizers in this forum too. I am sure some of them will respond to your post, and so will wait to see waht they write. --Ram On 5/14/07, Jyotirmoy Sharma mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After reading about the endless sequence of bomb blasts that this terrorist outfit is causing throughout Assam I cannot see how a sensible person can ever think of negotiating with such a terrorist outfit. The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. Those living abroad and found assisting the outfit in any way should be barred from entering Assam. Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace, prosperity and freedom on the other. What is even more surprising is that there are groups(read PCPIA and others) who have openly become the spokesperson of the outfit. They are never short in condemning when the Army kills a terrorist but hardly raise a voice when innocent people are getting slaughtered in their bomb blasts. Yes, it is true that the Army has killed and tortured innocent people in Assam but then the Army wouldn't be there in Assam if we didn't have the disease in the first place. Some questions which a pro-ULFA supporter may care to answer: - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public places? - Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? This problem has gone on for too long. If Punjab militancy could be eliminated I don't see why Assam should be different. Assam is better off with the freedom we have under India than under these terrorists called ULFA. Jyotirmoy ___ assam mailing list mailto:assam@assamnet.org assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Hehehe C'da, I knew that would catch your attention. What JS says maybe an extreme outburst, probably from someone young - but that is how many of the younger generation in Assam feel. What kind of answers do you have for them - or do you think their feelings ought to just brushed aside? But, I will really like to see some die-hard sympathizers put JS in his place :) :). C'da - you are expecting too much out of me. JS, right or wrong, has made a stand. Now, the ball is in the other court. People like me will sit this out for a while atleast and see what happens. At some point, I will come in to defend JS if he needs it - I have a feeling, he won't. He has done good so far. If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, ?are all it takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would have been no problem left in Assam , not to mention India. No, they are not - but on this net, its a rare commodity. instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA sympathizers, who will only make the issue more muddy :-)? Me? Are they turning to me now? Something is really rotten in Denmark:), and no, I am not passing the buck here - as I ain't no sympathazer. I would expect them sympathizers to be up in arms even if they circle the wagons and make it muddier:) JS has thrown the gauntlet, now its up to them to pick it up :) --Ram On 5/14/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ram: Saw your comments to Sharma's anguished outburst with his wishful recommendations and conclusions. Good that Sharma is letting off steam. But as an informed and experienced NRA, I would have hoped to see you explaining to Sharma the profound flaws in his line of thinking, even though I know you are unable to free your own thought processes entirely from a blind devotion to the derelict Indian state :-). If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, are all it takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would have been no problem left in Assam , not to mention India. So, what is missing? Don't you think* you*, as someone more knowledgeable, and more experienced than obviously Sharma is,; have an obligation to help him see things in a more mature light; instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA sympathizers, who will only make the issue more muddy :-)? c-da At 6:04 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Welcome JS to the Assamnet. That was a pretty straight forward post, if there was one, in these forums in a long time. I welcome that fresh air of audacity :) There are a few die-hard ulfa supporters and sympathizers in this forum too. I am sure some of them will respond to your post, and so will wait to see waht they write. --Ram On 5/14/07,* Jyotirmoy Sharma* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After reading about the endless sequence of bomb blasts that this terrorist outfit is causing throughout Assam I cannot see how a sensible person can ever think of negotiating with such a terrorist outfit. The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. Those living abroad and found assisting the outfit in any way should be barred from entering Assam. Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace, prosperity and freedom on the other. What is even more surprising is that there are groups(read PCPIA and others) who have openly become the spokesperson of the outfit. They are never short in condemning when the Army kills a terrorist but hardly raise a voice when innocent people are getting slaughtered in their bomb blasts. Yes, it is true that the Army has killed and tortured innocent people in Assam but then the Army wouldn't be there in Assam if we didn't have the disease in the first place. Some questions which a pro-ULFA supporter may care to answer: - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public places? - Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? This problem has gone on for too long. If Punjab militancy could be eliminated I don't see why Assam should be different. Assam is better off with the freedom we have under India than under these terrorists called ULFA. Jyotirmoy ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
JS has thrown the gauntlet, now its up to them to pick it up :) *** It could be considered such only when there is even a modicum of SUBSTANCE or realism behind a charge. Why would anyone want to go pick a fight with someone who would proclaim ---The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. It would be like challenging an Indian who would put a man on the Moon in 2010; or recommend that all those who do not agree with him be banished to 'koliyapani'; wouldn't it? c-da At 11:49 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehehe C'da, I knew that would catch your attention. What JS says maybe an extreme outburst, probably from someone young - but that is how many of the younger generation in Assam feel. What kind of answers do you have for them - or do you think their feelings ought to just brushed aside? But, I will really like to see some die-hard sympathizers put JS in his place :) :). C'da - you are expecting too much out of me. JS, right or wrong, has made a stand. Now, the ball is in the other court. People like me will sit this out for a while atleast and see what happens. At some point, I will come in to defend JS if he needs it - I have a feeling, he won't. He has done good so far. If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, ?are all it takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would have been no problem left in Assam , not to mention India. No, they are not - but on this net, its a rare commodity. instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA sympathizers, who will only make the issue more muddy :-)? Me? Are they turning to me now? Something is really rotten in Denmark:), and no, I am not passing the buck here - as I ain't no sympathazer. I would expect them sympathizers to be up in arms even if they circle the wagons and make it muddier:) JS has thrown the gauntlet, now its up to them to pick it up :) --Ram On 5/14/07, Chan Mahanta mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ram: Saw your comments to Sharma's anguished outburst with his wishful recommendations and conclusions. Good that Sharma is letting off steam. But as an informed and experienced NRA, I would have hoped to see you explaining to Sharma the profound flaws in his line of thinking, even though I know you are unable to free your own thought processes entirely from a blind devotion to the derelict Indian state :-). If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, are all it takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would have been no problem left in Assam , not to mention India. So, what is missing? Don't you think you, as someone more knowledgeable, and more experienced than obviously Sharma is,; have an obligation to help him see things in a more mature light; instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA sympathizers, who will only make the issue more muddy :-)? c-da At 6:04 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Welcome JS to the Assamnet. That was a pretty straight forward post, if there was one, in these forums in a long time. I welcome that fresh air of audacity :) There are a few die-hard ulfa supporters and sympathizers in this forum too. I am sure some of them will respond to your post, and so will wait to see waht they write. --Ram On 5/14/07, Jyotirmoy Sharma mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After reading about the endless sequence of bomb blasts that this terrorist outfit is causing throughout Assam I cannot see how a sensible person can ever think of negotiating with such a terrorist outfit. The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. Those living abroad and found assisting the outfit in any way should be barred from entering Assam. Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace, prosperity and freedom on the other. What is even more surprising is that there are groups(read PCPIA and others) who have openly become the spokesperson of the outfit. They are never short in condemning when the Army kills a terrorist but hardly raise a voice when innocent people are getting slaughtered in their bomb blasts. Yes, it is true that the Army has killed and tortured innocent people in Assam but then the Army wouldn't be there in Assam if we didn't have the disease in the first place. Some questions which a pro-ULFA supporter may care to answer: - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
C'da Why would anyone want to go pick a fight with someone who would proclaim --- There is another way to look at it. Perhaps, one could address this utter frustration with ulfa's antics and the 'ulfa did nor wrong' crowd. The recommendations from JS may be strong, but there is a lot of truth in what he says about the unstable situation in the state created by ULFA - and the fact that the state (as it is overburdened with other problems) is now having face the insurgency problem. Why can't ulfa sympathizers answers at least some of the questions like JS asks/comments: Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace, - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? These and other questions have been asked before - and we have YET to receive prompt, short (no spin) ansers So, just Ignoring, the punishment as JS demnds is really NOT a solution. Why can't someone just answer to the questions. -Ram On 5/14/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JS has thrown the gauntlet, now its up to them to pick it up :) *** It could be considered such only when there is even a modicum of SUBSTANCE or realism behind a charge. Why would anyone want to go pick a fight with someone who would proclaim ---The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. It would be like challenging an Indian who would put a man on the Moon in 2010; or recommend that all those who do not agree with him be banished to 'koliyapani'; wouldn't it? c-da At 11:49 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehehe C'da, I knew that would catch your attention. What JS says maybe an extreme outburst, probably from someone young - but that is how many of the younger generation in Assam feel. What kind of answers do you have for them - or do you think their feelings ought to just brushed aside? But, I will really like to see some die-hard sympathizers put JS in his place :) :). C'da - you are expecting too much out of me. JS, right or wrong, has made a stand. Now, the ball is in the other court. People like me will sit this out for a while atleast and see what happens. At some point, I will come in to defend JS if he needs it - I have a feeling, he won't. He has done good so far. If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, ?are all it takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would have been no problem left in Assam , not to mention India. No, they are not - but on this net, its a rare commodity. instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA sympathizers, who will only make the issue more muddy :-)? Me? Are they turning to me now? Something is really rotten in Denmark:), and no, I am not passing the buck here - as I ain't no sympathazer. I would expect them sympathizers to be up in arms even if they circle the wagons and make it muddier:) JS has thrown the gauntlet, now its up to them to pick it up :) --Ram On 5/14/07,* Chan Mahanta* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ram: Saw your comments to Sharma's anguished outburst with his wishful recommendations and conclusions. Good that Sharma is letting off steam. But as an informed and experienced NRA, I would have hoped to see you explaining to Sharma the profound flaws in his line of thinking, even though I know you are unable to free your own thought processes entirely from a blind devotion to the derelict Indian state :-). If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, are all it takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would have been no problem left in Assam , not to mention India. So, what is missing? Don't you think* you*, as someone more knowledgeable, and more experienced than obviously Sharma is,; have an obligation to help him see things in a more mature light; instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA sympathizers, who will only make the issue more muddy :-)? c-da At 6:04 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Welcome JS to the Assamnet. That was a pretty straight forward post, if there was one, in these forums in a long time. I welcome that fresh air of audacity :) There are a few die-hard ulfa supporters and sympathizers in this forum too. I am sure some of them will respond to your post, and so will wait to see waht they write. --Ram On 5/14/07,* Jyotirmoy Sharma* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After reading about the endless sequence of bomb blasts that this terrorist outfit is causing throughout Assam I cannot see how a sensible person can ever think of negotiating with such a terrorist outfit. The only solution left, I believe, is to
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
Ram: Just out of curiosity: Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace, *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? *** This is another bright question no doubt and someone of my caliber would be hard-pressed to answer. But since you press the point , allow me to take a shot ( pun intended): First off, if 'THEY' were residing in a foreign land, why is it that India and Indians claim ULFA is fighting in Assam? Isn't that a contradiction? I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? If you asked me it is a pretty dumb question, really. And dumber expectation. - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. You may not agree with their cause. That is how it works in a violent CONFLICT. That is WHY it is a violent CONFLICT. One side does not agree with the other and neither siude is asbout to play dead. Under the circumstances, expecting an antagonist here to play NEUTRAL ( or UNBIASED to echo the favorite kharkhowa/desi terminology) demonstrates an absence of an ability to reason like an adult with ordinary intelligence. But I have trouble believing that about JS and I know you do not fit that mold. So what is the explanation Ram? Anyone expecting an answer to questions like that would merely be demonstrating their living in denial, unable to accept the widely prevalent and discernible truths that surround them like so nmany Indians seem to do. I hate to see you act so disoriented a desi, Ram :-) c-da At 1:00 PM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da Why would anyone want to go pick a fight with someone who would proclaim --- There is another way to look at it. Perhaps, one could address this utter frustration with ulfa's antics and the 'ulfa did nor wrong' crowd. The recommendations from JS may be strong, but there is a lot of truth in what he says about the unstable situation in the state created by ULFA - and the fact that the state (as it is overburdened with other problems) is now having face the insurgency problem. Why can't ulfa sympathizers answers at least some of the questions like JS asks/comments: Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace, - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? These and other questions have been asked before - and we have YET to receive prompt, short (no spin) ansers So, just Ignoring, the punishment as JS demnds is really NOT a solution. Why can't someone just answer to the questions. -Ram On 5/14/07, Chan Mahanta mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JS has thrown the gauntlet, now its up to them to pick it up :) *** It could be considered such only when there is even a modicum of SUBSTANCE or realism behind a charge. Why would anyone want to go pick a fight with someone who would proclaim ---The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. It would be like challenging an Indian who would put a man on the Moon in 2010; or recommend that all those who do not agree with him be banished to 'koliyapani'; wouldn't it? c-da At 11:49 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehehe C'da, I knew that would catch your attention. What JS says maybe an extreme outburst, probably from someone young - but that is how many of the younger generation in Assam feel. What kind of answers do you have for them - or do you think their feelings ought to just brushed aside? But, I will really like to see some die-hard sympathizers put JS in his place :) :). C'da - you are expecting too much out of me. JS, right or wrong, has made a stand. Now, the ball is in the other court. People like me will sit this out for a while atleast and see what happens. At some point, I will come in to defend JS if he needs it - I have a feeling, he won't. He has done good so far.
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
put a man on the Moon in 2010 and leave him there- as this one -in the Australian Desert(Assam 's Indian Rupee cannot provide him any subsistence) to polish White Man's Shoes? mm Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:33:47 -0500To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA JS has thrown the gauntlet, now its up to them to pick it up :) *** It could be considered such only when there is even a modicum of SUBSTANCE or realism behind a charge. Why would anyone want to go pick a fight with someone who would proclaim ---The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. It would be like challenging an Indian who would put a man on the Moon in 2010; or recommend that all those who do not agree with him be banished to 'koliyapani'; wouldn't it? c-da At 11:49 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehehe C'da, I knew that would catch your attention. What JS says maybe an extreme outburst, probably from someone young - but that is how many of the younger generation in Assam feel. What kind of answers do you have for them - or do you think their feelings ought to just brushed aside? But, I will really like to see some die-hard sympathizers put JS in his place :) :). C'da - you are expecting too much out of me. JS, right or wrong, has made a stand. Now, the ball is in the other court. People like me will sit this out for a while atleast and see what happens. At some point, I will come in to defend JS if he needs it - I have a feeling, he won't. He has done good so far. If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, ?are all it takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would have been no problem left in Assam , not to mention India. No, they are not - but on this net, its a rare commodity. instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA sympathizers, who will only make the issue more muddy :-)? Me? Are they turning to me now? Something is really rotten in Denmark:), and no, I am not passing the buck here - as I ain't no sympathazer. I would expect them sympathizers to be up in arms even if they circle the wagons and make it muddier:) JS has thrown the gauntlet, now its up to them to pick it up :) --Ram On 5/14/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ram: Saw your comments to Sharma's anguished outburst with his wishful recommendations and conclusions. Good that Sharma is letting off steam. But as an informed and experienced NRA, I would have hoped to see you explaining to Sharma the profound flaws in his line of thinking, even though I know you are unable to free your own thought processes entirely from a blind devotion to the derelict Indian state :-). If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, are all it takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would have been no problem left in Assam , not to mention India. So, what is missing? Don't you think you, as someone more knowledgeable, and more experienced than obviously Sharma is,; have an obligation to help him see things in a more mature light; instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA sympathizers, who will only make the issue more muddy :-)? c-da At 6:04 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Welcome JS to the Assamnet. That was a pretty straight forward post, if there was one, in these forums in a long time. I welcome that fresh air of audacity :) There are a few die-hard ulfa supporters and sympathizers in this forum too. I am sure some of them will respond to your post, and so will wait to see waht they write. --Ram On 5/14/07, Jyotirmoy Sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After reading about the endless sequence of bomb blasts that thisterrorist outfit is causing throughout Assam I cannot see how asensible person can ever think of negotiating with such a terrorist outfit. The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. Those living abroad and found assisting the outfit in any way should be barredfrom entering Assam.Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionarieskilled their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace,prosperity and freedom on the other. What is even more surprising isthat there are groups(read PCPIA and others) who have openly becomethe spokesperson of the outfit. They are never short in condemningwhen the Army kills a terrorist but hardly raise a voice wheninnocent people are getting slaughtered in their bomb blasts. Yes, itis true that the Army has killed and tortured innocent people inAssam but then the Army wouldn't be there in Assam if we didn't havethe disease in the first place.Some questions which a pro-ULFA supporter may care to answer:- Why do they reside in a foreign country
Re: [Assam] End this disease called ULFA
C'da *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? Let me try! First of, the ulfa cannot really be considered revolionaries. A revolution (Like the French etc) are a mass-scale uprising of some sort against an establishment. The ulfa (as some would like to elevate) is nowhere close to that lable So, in that context, modern revolutions have always been about protecting the masses against tyrants. In the Assam context, can you give some stark examples where such a thing has happened? And yes, C'da why is these home-grown revoltionaries hell bent on killing and looting from Assamese people (and don't forget Dhemaji) - now there was a great example of your revolutionaries giving up blood treasure (of course, it matters little that blood spilled was not theirs). I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? If the 'leaders' were holed up in B'desh and making war plans/strategic plans against the big, bad ogre called India, it may have carried some semblence of resptability - but to hole up elsewhere, goad/egg other to the battles, and all the while amass huge personal wealth, (as reported by the US think tank - Stratfor. com), getting help from BD intel and ISI (who will just as easily slit an Assamese throat as they would an Indian) is beyond me. So, now this holing up in Bangladesh is really a strategic plan - could have knocked me out with a feather! How could I have missed that First off, if 'THEY' were residing in a foreign land, why is it that India and Indians claim ULFA is fighting in Assam? Isn't that a contradiction? I am just trying here - don't know exactly what JS meant. Why is this a contradiction - the leaders stay in BD - making the big war plans, while the low-level cadres do the dirty job in Assam. *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. You may not agree with their cause. We have all been hearing about this big cause for a long time. Then why is that the whole of Assam have NOT joined and or signed on the dotted line? Do you know why? That is how it works in a violent CONFLICT. That is WHY it is a violent CONFLICT. Whew! Now that somehow makes us all feel better. Of course, all the people of Assam gave the green signal for ULFA to go violent and now it (the ulfa) acts as the sole torch bearer for God country. One question, if these 'revs' are NOT even able to fight from their home base (that they are forced to go to another country to do so), what odds do you, as a pragmatist, give them for any kind of win? Even the country these people take refuge in (BD) is not able to take on the bad boy on the block (India) what are the chances for the revs. Do you think perhaps, that there is no fun for them to end this 'insurgency Kamadhenu'. Whatever will they do if this all ends - Work for a living? Good grief ! :) --Ram On 5/14/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: Just out of curiosity: Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace, *** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern history? Would you like to explain? - Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state? *** This is another bright question no doubt and someone of my caliber would be hard-pressed to answer. But since you press the point , allow me to take a shot ( pun intended): First off, if 'THEY' were residing in a foreign land, why is it that India and Indians claim ULFA is fighting in Assam? Isn't that a contradiction? I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you? Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working? If you asked me it is a pretty dumb question, really. And dumber expectation. - They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? *** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and dying for a cause. You may not agree with their cause. That is how it works in a violent CONFLICT. That is WHY it is a violent CONFLICT. One side does
