Re: What happened to the audio described content topic?
Re: What happened to the audio described content topic? Yeah they deleted it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451313/#p451313 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What happened to the audio described content topic?
2019-07-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : zakc93 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What happened to the audio described content topic? Oh sorry I missed that, saw that topic now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451151/#p451151 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What happened to the audio described content topic?
2019-07-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What happened to the audio described content topic? They posted a topic in this very section as well, explaining that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451142/#p451142 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What happened to the audio described content topic?
Re: What happened to the audio described content topic? yes. The original poster chose to delete it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451138/#p451138 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
What happened to the audio described content topic?
2019-07-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : zakc93 via Audiogames-reflector
What happened to the audio described content topic? There was a relatively big topic in the off-topic room, but it seems to be gone now. Did someone delete it? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451137/#p451137 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Just to make something clear... I've actually downloaded two, possibly three things from the vault, maybe five or six if you include blind mice. There's a suggestion that everyone who argues for the vault is a spoiled brat who throws a fit when their toys are threatened to be taken away. It wouldn't affect me that much if say Grif decided to close the vault, or it were taken down. I'm not that interested in film and TV since I lost my sight. I wasn't particularly interested in it before. I stopped watching TV by and large in the early 2000s, almost 10 years before I went blind. I support it not because I'm a big baby who wants his toys, but because I think it's doing no one any harm, but some people a little good. My motivations are nothing to do with my being spoiled. A suggestion I resent very much. I see the vault as a charitable venture. The ultimate ideal for me would be if the vault's content could be legally licensed with a suitable subscription fee that went to the content providers and the upkeep of the site. Audio only is a severely reduced form of content compared to the original full video version, and so warrants a fee that reflects this. As I've said before, I pay my way plenty, and am not out for all I can steal. I say all this to make the point that it is possible that a person can argue for the vault based on purely moral grounds and not whinging self interest. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450894/#p450894 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Just to make something clear... I've actually downloaded two, possibly three things from the vault, maybe five or six if you include blind mice. There's a suggestion that everyone who argues for the vault is a spoiled brat who throws a fit when their toys are threatened to be taken away. It wouldn't affect me that much if say Grif decided to close the vault, or it were taken down. I'm not that interested in film and TV since I lost my sight. I wasn't particularly interested in it before. I stopped watching TV by and large in the early 2000s, almost 10 years before I went blind. I support it not because I'm a big baby who wants his toys, but because I think it's doing no one any harm, but some people a little good. My motivations are nothing to do with my being spoiled. A suggestion I resent very much. I see the vault as a charitable venture. The ultimate ideal for me would be if the vault's content could be legally licensed with a suitable subscription fee that went to the content providers. Audio only is a severely reduced form of content compared to the original full video version, and so warrants a fee that reflects this. As I've said before, I pay my way plenty, and am not out for all I can steal. I say all this to make the point that it is possible that a person can argue for the vault based on purely moral grounds and not whinging self interest. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450894/#p450894 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Just to make something clear... I've actually downloaded two, possibly three things from the vault, maybe five or six if you include blind mice. There's a suggestion that everyone who argues for the vault is a spoiled brat who throws a fit when their toys are threatened to be taken away. It wouldn't affect me that much if say Grif decided to close the vault, or it were taken down. I'm not that interested in film and TV since I lost my sight. I wasn't particularly interested in it before. I stopped watching TV by and large in the early 2000s, almost 10 years before I went blind. I support it not because I'm a big baby who wants his toys, but because I think it's doing no one any harm, but some people a little good. My motivations are nothing to do with my being spoiled. A suggestion I resent very much. I see the vault as a charitable venture. The ultimate ideal for me would be if the vault's content could be legally licensed with a suitable subscription fee that went to the content providers. Audio only is a severely reduced form of content compared to the original full video version, and so warrants a fee that reflects this. As I've said before, I pay my way plenty, and am not out for all I can steal. I say all this to make the point that it is possible that a person can argue for the vault based on purely moral grounds and not self interest. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450894/#p450894 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Just to make something clear... I've actually downloaded two, possibly three things from the vault, maybe five or six if you include blind mice. There's a suggestion that everyone who argues for the vault is a spoiled brat who throws a fit when their toys are threatened to be taken away. It wouldn't affect me that much if say Grif decided to close the vault, or it were taken down. I'm not that interested in film and TV since I lost my sight. I wasn't particularly interested in it before. I stopped watching TV by and large in the early 2000s, almost 10 years before I went blind. I support it not because I'm a big baby who wants his toys, but because I think it's doing no one any harm, but some people a little good. My motivations are nothing to do with my being spoiled. A suggestion I resent very much. I see the vault as a charitable venture. The ultimate ideal for me would be if the vault's content could be legally licensed with a suitable subscription fee that went to the content providers. Audio only is a severely reduced form of content compared to the original full video version, and so warrants a fee that reflects this. As I've said before, I pay my way plenty, and am not out for all I can steal. Far from it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450894/#p450894 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Just to make something clear... I've actually downloaded two, possibly three things from the vault, maybe five or six if you include blind mice. There's a suggestion that everyone who argues for the vault is a spoiled brat who throws a fit when their toys are threatened to be taken away. It wouldn't affect me that much if say Grif decided to close the vault, or it were taken down. I'm not that interested in film and TV since I lost my sight. I wasn't particularly interested in it before. I stopped watching TV in the early 2000s, almost 10 years before I went blind. I support it not because I'm a big baby who wants his toys, but because I think it's doing no one any harm, but some people a little good. My motivations are nothing to do with my being spoiled. A suggestion I resent very much. I see the vault as a charitable venture. The ultimate ideal for me would be if the vault's content could be legally licensed with a suitable subscription fee that went to the content providers. Audio only is a severely reduced form of content compared to the original full video version, and so warrants a fee that reflects this. As I've said before, I pay my way plenty, and am not out for all I can steal. Far from it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450894/#p450894 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Just to make something clear... I've actually downloaded two, possibly three things from the vault, maybe five or six if you include blind mice. There's a suggestion that everyone who argues for the vault is a spoiled brat who throws a fit when their toys are threatened to be taken away. It wouldn't affect me that much if say Grif decided to close the vault, or it were taken down. I'm not that interested in film and TV since I lost my sight. I wasn't particularly interested in it before. I stopped watching TV in the early 2000s, almost 10 years before I went blind. I support it not because I'm a big baby who wants his toys, but because I think it's doing no one any harm, but some people a little good. My motivations are nothing to do with my being spoiled. A suggestion I resent very much. I see the vault as a charitable venture. The ultimate ideal for me would be if the vault's content could be legally licensed with a suitable subscription fee that went to the content providers. Audio only is a severely reduced form of content compared to the original full video version. As I've said before, I pay my way plenty, and am not out for all I can steal. Far from it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450894/#p450894 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I don't get what about this is so hard to understand. The mods came together and decided to stop the spread of copyrighted material on the forum, then Aaron flaunts his quote, override, end quote, powers and goes back on what was agreed. Jayde just tried to fix things. Now, if fault can be found with Jayde, it would be in allowing himself to be drawn into another argument, and starting up the me me me train again. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450887/#p450887 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content China has a movie industry, music and all the things we have in the west. And is notoriously one of the biggest flouters of copyright law in the world. You say you doubt Chinese people steal movies from the West. They kick out more blag DVDs and other fake merchandise than everyone else put together. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450877/#p450877 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Evidence? Go visit ali express . It's plastered with every fake version of almost everything vailable on Amazon. And the sellers are based in China. I wouldn't buy it, but you don't have to shop there to know it exists. I thought everyone knew about China's massive disregard for copyright. I haven't answered the question because I'd be repeating myself for about the fifth time. I've made my stance on all this as clearly as I ever can. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450879/#p450879 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content China has a movie industry, music and all the things we have in the west. And is notoriously one of the biggest flouters of copyright law in the world. They kick out more blag DVDs and other fake merchandise than everyone else put together. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450877/#p450877 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Evidence? Go visit ali express . It's plastered with every fake version of almost everything vailable on Amazon. And the sellers are based in China. I wouldn't buy it, but you don't have to shop there to know it exists. I thought everyone knew about China's massive disregard for copyright. And I haven't answered the question here because I'd be repeating myself for about the fifth time. I've made my stance on all this as clearly as I ever can. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450879/#p450879 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Evidence? Go visit alibaba. It's plastered with every fake version of almost everything vailable on Amazon. And the sellers are based in China. I wouldn't buy it, but you don't have to shop there to know it exists. I thought everyone knew about China's massive disregard for copyright. And I haven't answered the question here because I'd be repeating myself for about the fifth time. I've made my stance on all this as clearly as I ever can. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450879/#p450879 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Evidence? Go visit alibaba. It's plastered with every fake version of almost everything vailable on Amazon. And the sellers are based in China. I wouldn't buy it, but you don't have to shop there to know it exists. I thought everyone knew about China's massive disregard for copyright. And I haven't answered the question here because I'd be repeating myself. I've made my stance on all this clear as clear as I ever can. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450879/#p450879 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Evidence? Go visit alibaba. It's plastered with every fake version of almost everything vailable on Amazon. And the sellers are based in China. I wouldn't buy it, but you don't have to shop there to know it exists. I thought everyone knew about China's massive disregard for copyright. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450879/#p450879 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Evidence? Go visit alibaba. It's plastered with every fake version of almost everything vailable on Amazon. And the sellers are based in China. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450879/#p450879 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Evidence? Go visit alibaba. It's plastered with every fake version of almost everything vailable on Amazon. And the sellers are based in China. It's junk and you'd be an idiot to buy it, but it's there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450879/#p450879 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content China has a movie industry, music and all the things we have in the west. And is notoriously one of the biggest flouters of copyright law in the world. Nobody steals movies in China. My God man they kick out more blag DVDs and other fake merchandise than everyone else put together. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450877/#p450877 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I would actually like to see evidence from both of the sides. @160, you still did not answer the second question. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450878/#p450878 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content China has a movie industry, music and all the things we have in the west. And is one of the biggest flouters of copyright law in the world. Nobody steals movies in China. My God man they kick out more blag DVDs and other fake merchandise than everyone else put together. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450877/#p450877 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content China has a movie industry, music and all the things we have in the west. And is one of the biggest flouters of copyright law in the world. Nice choice. This is why some of us don't enter into any argument with certain people. Nobody steals movies in China. My God man they kick out more blag DVDs than everyone else put together. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450877/#p450877 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Ironcross, you need to read both Jade and Aaron's early posts on this thread. I specifically told people not to mention or link to any illegal material. I of course meant the vault. At that point I'd fully accepted that was no longer allowed. Then Jade said he welcomed discussion of an alternative, and Aaron said: quote. Now, here's the thing. Regarding linking to this new discussion place, this is a really grey area.I do not see why it can't be linked with to begin with, however, I am going to say now that if we allow this, that link is *not* going to be able to permanentlystay on the audiogames forum and will have to eventually be spread by word of mouth, with a topic removal (not closure, but removal) date set. end quote.Aaron has remained consistent in what he suggested at the start. Something Jade didn't appear to strongly object to at the time, Saying this: quote. Aaron, just as a heads-up, you asking what I think is cool and all, but doing it that way looks an awful lot like you're asking my permission. If anyoneis asking permission of anyone, it should be me of you. You have seniority on me, if nothing else at all.Point is, though, that I agree with what you said pretty much down to the ground. It's not that we actually want to shut down the vault, stall accessibilityissues or anything of the like. We want more mainstream inclusion as much as the next person. But the vault thread was not the best way to go about it,so we're changing how we deal with that. I like the idea of having other places to talk about this, and I like the idea of being able to pass the infoaround, but I also agree that this link shouldn't just be bandied about on this forum willy-nilly, else why did we do this in the first place? end quote.Jade and Aaron were totally responsible for this thread being used to openly discuss an alternative forum for the vault. Including the temporary posting of links. Remember that I the thread starter never wanted any discussion of the vault or any links related to it posted at all, and until Jade and Aaron entered the discussion, no one was going there. It was Jade and Aaron that put that idea out there in the first place. They're more responsible than anyone else that we're now in a moderation situation over this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450868/#p450868 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content An excellent question to which I’m afraid we will not see the answer. Not from the people on this topic, anyways. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450876/#p450876 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Ironcross, you need to read both Jade and Aaron's early posts on this thread. I specifically told people not to mention or link to any illegal material. I of course meant the vault. At that point I'd fully accepted that was no longer allowed. Then Jade said he welcomed discussion of an alternative, and Aaron said: quote. Now, here's the thing. Regarding linking to this new discussion place, this is a really grey area.I do not see why it can't be linked with to begin with, however, I am going to say now that if we allow this, that link is *not* going to be able to permanentlystay on the audiogames forum and will have to eventually be spread by word of mouth, with a topic removal (not closure, but removal) date set. end quote.Aaron has remained consistent in what he suggested at the start. Something Jade didn't appear to strongly object to at the time, Saying this: quote. Aaron, just as a heads-up, you asking what I think is cool and all, but doing it that way looks an awful lot like you're asking my permission. If anyoneis asking permission of anyone, it should be me of you. You have seniority on me, if nothing else at all.Point is, though, that I agree with what you said pretty much down to the ground. It's not that we actually want to shut down the vault, stall accessibilityissues or anything of the like. We want more mainstream inclusion as much as the next person. But the vault thread was not the best way to go about it,so we're changing how we deal with that. I like the idea of having other places to talk about this, and I like the idea of being able to pass the infoaround, but I also agree that this link shouldn't just be bandied about on this forum willy-nilly, else why did we do this in the first place? end quote.Jade and Aaron were totally responsible for this thread being used to openly discuss an alternative forum for the vault. Including the temporary posting of links. Remember that I the thread starter never wanted any discussion of the vault or any links related to it posted at all, and until Jade and Aaron entered the discussion, no one was going there. It was Jade and Aaron that put that idea out there in the first place. They're more responsible than anyone else that we're now in a moderation situation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450868/#p450868 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Ironcross, you need to read both Jade and Aaron's early posts on this thread. I specifically told people not to mention or link to any illegal material. I of course meant the vault. At that point I'd fully accepted that was no longer allowed. Then Jade said he welcomed discussion of an alternative, and Aaron said: quote. Now, here's the thing. Regarding linking to this new discussion place, this is a really grey area.I do not see why it can't be linked with to begin with, however, I am going to say now that if we allow this, that link is *not* going to be able to permanentlystay on the audiogames forum and will have to eventually be spread by word of mouth, with a topic removal (not closure, but removal) date set. end quote.Aaron has remained consistent in what he suggested at the start. Something Jade didn't appear to strongly object to at the time, Saying this: quote. Aaron, just as a heads-up, you asking what I think is cool and all, but doing it that way looks an awful lot like you're asking my permission. If anyoneis asking permission of anyone, it should be me of you. You have seniority on me, if nothing else at all.Point is, though, that I agree with what you said pretty much down to the ground. It's not that we actually want to shut down the vault, stall accessibilityissues or anything of the like. We want more mainstream inclusion as much as the next person. But the vault thread was not the best way to go about it,so we're changing how we deal with that. I like the idea of having other places to talk about this, and I like the idea of being able to pass the infoaround, but I also agree that this link shouldn't just be bandied about on this forum willy-nilly, else why did we do this in the first place? end quote.Jade and Aaron were totally responsible for this thread being used to openly discuss an alternative forum for the vault. Including the temporary posting of links. Aaron has remained consistent to his original compromise, yet the very day this discussion start to bear fruit and links are posted to the alternative home, Jade has suddenly taken a hard line. This is the reason I singled Jade out. Remember that I the thread starter never wanted any discussion of the vault or any links related to it posted at all. It was a discussion between Jade and Aaron that put that idea out there in the first place. They're more responsible than anyone else that we're now in a moderation situation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450868/#p450868 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Ironcross, you need to read both Jade and Aaron's early posts on this thread. I specifically told people not to mention or link to any illegal material. I of course meant the vault. At that point I'd fully accepted that was no longer allowed. Then Jade said he welcomed discussion of an alternative, and Aaron said: quote. Now, here's the thing. Regarding linking to this new discussion place, this is a really grey area.I do not see why it can't be linked with to begin with, however, I am going to say now that if we allow this, that link is *not* going to be able to permanentlystay on the audiogames forum and will have to eventually be spread by word of mouth, with a topic removal (not closure, but removal) date set. end quote.Aaron has remained consistent in what he suggested at the start. Something Jade didn't appear to strongly object to at the time, Saying this: quote. Aaron, just as a heads-up, you asking what I think is cool and all, but doing it that way looks an awful lot like you're asking my permission. If anyoneis asking permission of anyone, it should be me of you. You have seniority on me, if nothing else at all.Point is, though, that I agree with what you said pretty much down to the ground. It's not that we actually want to shut down the vault, stall accessibilityissues or anything of the like. We want more mainstream inclusion as much as the next person. But the vault thread was not the best way to go about it,so we're changing how we deal with that. I like the idea of having other places to talk about this, and I like the idea of being able to pass the infoaround, but I also agree that this link shouldn't just be bandied about on this forum willy-nilly, else why did we do this in the first place? end quote.Jade and Aaron were totally responsible for this thread being used to openly discuss an alternative forum for the vault. Including the temporary posting of links. Aaron has remained consistent to his original compromise, yet the very day this discussion start to bear fruit and links are posted to the alternative home, Jade has suddenly taken a hard line. This is the reason I singled Jade out. Remember that I the thread starter never wanted links posted at all. It was a discussion between Jade and Aaron that put that idea out there in the first place. They're more responsible than anyone else that we're now in a moderation situation over this thread. . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450868/#p450868 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Ironcross, you need to read both Jade and Aaron's early posts on this thread. I specifically told people not to mention or link to any illegal material. I of course meant the vault. At that point I'd fully accepted that was no longer allowed. Then Jade said he welcomed discussion of an alternative, and Aaron said: quote. Now, here's the thing. Regarding linking to this new discussion place, this is a really grey area.I do not see why it can't be linked with to begin with, however, I am going to say now that if we allow this, that link is *not* going to be able to permanentlystay on the audiogames forum and will have to eventually be spread by word of mouth, with a topic removal (not closure, but removal) date set. end quote.Aaron has remained consistent in what he suggested at the start. Something Jade didn't appear to strongly object to at the time, Saying this: quote. Aaron, just as a heads-up, you asking what I think is cool and all, but doing it that way looks an awful lot like you're asking my permission. If anyoneis asking permission of anyone, it should be me of you. You have seniority on me, if nothing else at all.Point is, though, that I agree with what you said pretty much down to the ground. It's not that we actually want to shut down the vault, stall accessibilityissues or anything of the like. We want more mainstream inclusion as much as the next person. But the vault thread was not the best way to go about it,so we're changing how we deal with that. I like the idea of having other places to talk about this, and I like the idea of being able to pass the infoaround, but I also agree that this link shouldn't just be bandied about on this forum willy-nilly, else why did we do this in the first place? end quote.Jade and Aaron were totally responsible for this thread being used to openly discuss an alternative forum for the vault. Including the temporary posting of links. Aaron has remained consistent to his original compromise, yet the very day this discussion start to bear fruit and links are posted to the alternative home, Jade has suddenly taken a hard line. This is the reason I singled Jade out. Remember that I the thread starter never wanted links posted at all. It was a discussion between Jade and Aaron that put that idea out there in the first place. They're more responsible than anyone else that we're in a moderation situation today. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450868/#p450868 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Ironcross, you need to read both Jade and Aaron's early posts on this thread. I specifically told people not to mention or link to any illegal material. I of course meant the vault. At that point I'd fully accepted that was no longer allowed. Then Jade said he welcomed discussion of an alternative, and Aaron said: quote. Now, here's the thing. Regarding linking to this new discussion place, this is a really grey area.I do not see why it can't be linked with to begin with, however, I am going to say now that if we allow this, that link is *not* going to be able to permanentlystay on the audiogames forum and will have to eventually be spread by word of mouth, with a topic removal (not closure, but removal) date set. end quote.Aaron has remained consistent in what he suggested at the start. Something Jade didn't appear to strongly object to at the time, Saying this: quote. Aaron, just as a heads-up, you asking what I think is cool and all, but doing it that way looks an awful lot like you're asking my permission. If anyoneis asking permission of anyone, it should be me of you. You have seniority on me, if nothing else at all.Point is, though, that I agree with what you said pretty much down to the ground. It's not that we actually want to shut down the vault, stall accessibilityissues or anything of the like. We want more mainstream inclusion as much as the next person. But the vault thread was not the best way to go about it,so we're changing how we deal with that. I like the idea of having other places to talk about this, and I like the idea of being able to pass the infoaround, but I also agree that this link shouldn't just be bandied about on this forum willy-nilly, else why did we do this in the first place? end quote.Jade and Aaron were totally responsible for this thread being used to openly discuss an alternative forum for the vault. Including the temporary posting of links. Aaron has remained consistent to his original compromise, yet the very day this discussion start to bear fruit and links are posted to the alternative home, Jade has suddenly flip-flopped. This is the reason I singled Jade out. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450868/#p450868 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Gonna jump in here and ask this.So, lets step outside the blind community for a moment. Let's look at all those countries that don't have internet, don't really have movies, perhaps may not have music. Whatever. My point is, they don't have one of the various things being thrown around here by some as a "need". Let's take China, for example. China is (to put it polite) extremely strict when it comes to internet access. Do Chinese people steel movies from America when they want to watch films? Na, I doubt it. They most likely use good VPN services that allow them to legally acquire the movies. (I have no concrete evidence for this, but its a pretty sound theory.)So, what gives us blind people special rights that the sited person wouldn't have? What gives us the right to pirate and steel all we want when your average consumer probably doesn't have that right? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450869/#p450869 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Ironcross, you need to read both Jade and Aaron's early posts on this thread. I specifically told people not to mention or link to any illegal material. I of course meant the vault. At that point I'd fully accepted that was no longer allowed. Then Jade said he welcomed discussion of an alternative, and Aaron said: quote. Now, here's the thing. Regarding linking to this new discussion place, this is a really grey area.I do not see why it can't be linked with to begin with, however, I am going to say now that if we allow this, that link is *not* going to be able to permanentlystay on the audiogames forum and will have to eventually be spread by word of mouth, with a topic removal (not closure, but removal) date set. end quote.Aaron has remained consistent in what he suggested at the start. Something Jade didn't appear to strongly object to at the time, Saying this: quote. Aaron, just as a heads-up, you asking what I think is cool and all, but doing it that way looks an awful lot like you're asking my permission. If anyoneis asking permission of anyone, it should be me of you. You have seniority on me, if nothing else at all.Point is, though, that I agree with what you said pretty much down to the ground. It's not that we actually want to shut down the vault, stall accessibilityissues or anything of the like. We want more mainstream inclusion as much as the next person. But the vault thread was not the best way to go about it,so we're changing how we deal with that. I like the idea of having other places to talk about this, and I like the idea of being able to pass the infoaround, but I also agree that this link shouldn't just be bandied about on this forum willy-nilly, else why did we do this in the first place? end quote.Jade and Aaron were totally responsible for this thread being used to openly discuss an alternative forum for the vault. Including the temporary posting of links. Aaron has remained consistent to his original compromise, yet the very day this discussion start to bear fruit and links are posted to the alternative home, Jade has suddenly flip-flopped. This is the reason I've singled Jade out and called him two-faced. The evidence is there plain as day. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450868/#p450868 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I highly doubt he reported the links anyway, and even if he did, I doubt anything will happen to the site. I know for a fact that people have reported Blind Help for the things it contains, yet it's still alive and kicking. So are a billion torrent sites, although of course, those have a large, dedicated team which can move them at a moment's notice. since blind Help is a small project, and it's still around despite similar complaints, I don't think this will be any more than a blip on the radar. I honestly don't care one way or the other, but I'm trying to head off the flood of folks who are going to come in here screaming about how their favorite toy got taken away. I can almost assure all of them, it won't be. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450864/#p450864 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Hi. what's a sophistry. isn't that a thing I hang on my wall? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450861/#p450861 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Moderation:Amerikranian, consider this an official caution. Just watch your step, dude.As an outsider, the way you're coming across could be qualified as arrogant, or at least abrasive. As someone who often ruffles people's feathers, I feel fairly qualified to judge on this. You're making fairly good points, but you're doing it in a way that's practically bound to get people's backs up. Try and ease off.It also needs to be said here that this whole need/want thing here is really, really tricky. No one is going to argue that you will die without audio description or access to audiobooks or Game of Thrones or your favourite Lincoln Park album or whatever. That's not the point. The point is that people who aren't blind enjoy more access to media, and that people in certain countries, regardless of their disability, have greater (or less) access to said media as well. It's not as if everyone is being treated equally here, and that sucks. We do not -need any of these things, but as for whether or not we should have them? I think we should.But that's where my opinion stops. I want people to try and fight for better access, better rules involving copyright, better accessibility across the board. I think those things are hugely important in the struggle for equality across all intersectionalities. What I don't want people to do is go around flouting the law publicly on a forum that represents a large part of the English-speaking audiogame community. And most of the rest of the team doesn't want that either. As such, we're asking you not to engage in those behaviours here, on this forum. I can't stress that enough. If you want to carry on with this somewhere else, go say hi to Mason, or set up your own forum, or whatever else. Just don't do it here anymore. We want to separate ourselves from this aspect of resistance because it has the potential to cause more problems than it solves. You're free to disagree with that, but at this point your choices are to learn to live with it or to leave, because barring some sort of owner intervention or a massive new argument and consequent shift in thought, this is how it is..tl/dr: Amerikranian, try not to be quite so prickly, and please don't split hairs when you surely know that you're engaging in sophistry (arguing for the sake of arguing). Again, personal experience here. lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450838/#p450838 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content @151 Nevertheless, it is still following the law, even if my intentions aren’t so pure. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450837/#p450837 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Ironcross is correct. Aaron's stance does not and did not reflect the entirety of the team. If it had, then I'd completely agree with you; coming on here to disagree with a decision after it was already set in stone is straight-up childish. But I manifestly did not do that. And what's more, I think you folks know that.If you don't, there's a really interesting word in Aaron's post that I want to flag, in great big shouting red letters. That word is "override". Does "override" sound like democracy to you? Because it doesn't to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450835/#p450835 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Nevertheless, it's spiteful and vindictive to report the links. You didn't do it because you wanted to be a good law abiding citizen, you did it to spite the people using the service. That's assinine. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450832/#p450832 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content @144, let's take your post apart line by line: You claim that I have arrogance, how so? You do not provide any sufficient evidence to back your point up. Until I hear something more concrete from your side I will move on and dismiss your words as wining. Now, as to my experiences: I am going to give you grace and read past the point where you dismiss my points by saying that I am not you. You would be correct in that matter. I am not. However, I know 300 or so others that shared my lifestyle, more if I bother to go looking. I bet you would too, if you come out of that corner you stuck your face in and open your eyes to the real world. Fact is, not all of the people on this planet have internet. Not all blind folks can access audio description, some do not even know what it is. So, I am posing a direct question to you: If not all people know about audio description, is it truly necessary to have it? Think on it, consider what you are going to write very carefully because frankly, your point combined with what I am about to answer to below cause your credibility to go down in my eyes. I am shocked. Given that you are a lawyer, a fact which I highly doubt, you'd think that you have learned to separate your feelings from the law. Ripping movies and hosting them somewhere without the provider's permission clearly screams illegal. It does not matter if I feel like an ass for reporting the links, I followed the law, which is ultimately what matters in the long term. Tell me, how many of your cases left room for feelings when a verdict was delivered to the court? I cannot comprehend you mixing feelings in with the law. You do not need movies! You don't! You won't die just because you didn't see the last season of Game of Thrones! Also, you question my priorities. Let me return the favor. If you do not care for your life as you've clearly stated in another topic, maybe you should consider what is personally important to you before trying to give me the same advice. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450831/#p450831 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content No, it wasn't fair, because the decision had already been made. It's time to start cracking down on things, not give longer and longer grace periods. Aaron clearly doesn't want to stop the audio vault topics because he is a fan of that service, so he has an agenda. Pushing that agenda when a decision had already been made is not good, as it demonstrates his unwillingness or inability to check his bias at the door.Further, anyone else who likes the vault has the same agenda, so are likely to agree. I don't think it's a very difficult thing to do to not ask people to post links to pirated material, which the vault does contain. That arguument that the audio portion doesn't constitute piracy is rubbish, as if that were the case, then sound libraries could just be downloaded with no charge. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450826/#p450826 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content What Aaron said seemed pretty fair to me. I 100 per cent agree with je97 on this one. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450821/#p450821 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Are your admin teams like your oh so esteemed law firms? Aaron made an impulsive decision after the vote had already be taken, he was in the wrong, Jayde was trying to clean up the mess that Aaron made. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450813/#p450813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content When an admin posts you expect that it is the view of the team. I've been on admin teams before, and when someone does that, you accept it publicly and then tell him to stop doing that shit privately, if you want. You don't contradict it and then expect us to know which one of you really knows what he's doing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450804/#p450804 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content je97 wrote:if you feel that you cannot cooperate on a team led by Aaron then I feel you should consider your place as an admin. Publicly sniping at someone you have to work with is not how to go about this.Umm, last time I checked, Aaron was the one acting impulsive coming in here and dropping this new grace period. You just agree with him because it serves your agenda. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450802/#p450802 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content @Amerikranian: I cannot begin to put into words the level of arrogance that pours from your posts here today, however I will inform you of a few small facts. You are not everybody. Your experiences might not be ours. You are no better than anybody else, how you were raised does not make your words more relevant, and the fact that you would even consider reporting somebody for attempting to make the lives of people unable to access audio description disgusts me. Think about your priorities because if you would do that you really need to think very hard about what it is that makes you so bitter. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450798/#p450798 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Jayde, I thought we had done this already. When the alternative forum has arrived (hint, it hasn't yet), a grace period would be given to enable people to move discussion over to that forum. The fact that an unrelated forum has arisen does not negate the fact that this forum is at present not up and running: for one, the discussion has not yet moved to it, for another with the random and unannounced periods of downtime that like to occur on Masons other projects it does not seem like too much of a logical jump to assume that this might not be the most stable, long-standing forum that the internet has ever seen. Aaron's proposal is entirely reasonable in the regard that it fecilitates the moving of AV discussion from this forum to another purpose-built one without the need for a possibly crippling period of consusion where there is no effective place to discuss this. What is not reasonable however is the clear lack of professionalism that you have shown in this situation: admins and moderators need to agree on something to do, and act as a team in doing it. It is both unprofessional and unhelpful to have two wildly different moderation policies in effect on the same forum, and leads to confusion: if you feel that you cannot cooperate on a team led by Aaron then I feel you should consider your place as an admin. Publicly sniping at someone you have to work with is not how to go about this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450795/#p450795 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content @136, really? You had to go there? Alridy. I agree with you for the most part. Humans need social interaction. The only issue with your stance is the fact that movies weren't a thing until 1900s. Need I say anymore to be understood? Yes, yes I do.1: Internet is not a requirement for learning. I am once again a clear example of that, seeing that I didn't have it for a good chunk of my life.2: While music can encourage learning, it doesn't come close to movies. There are dozens of free music websites out there including Youtube, and if you don't have internet, radio is your next best bet.3: Read this really carefully: You do not need audio description to enjoy a movie. You don't. Shocking, I know. It's like your world has been flipped upside down. The statement above is true of at least 90% of movies out there. If you do want to have a more clear idea of what's going on, ask somebody to watch the movie with you. It's that simple. You may argue that by doing so you are not independent, but here is the simple truth that a lot of folks miss: Nobody in this world is totally independent. We all rely, read, depend, on something or someone to be there/to do a certain task for us. So, the issue above has been solved. Again, I reiterate my main points in this mess:1: You do not need audio description for most of the movies out there.2: Audio description is a want, not a need.3: If you do not have access to audio described content in your region, it is still not okay to go and rip the movie off in any shape or form.If you wish to dispute me on the legality of hosting only the audio portion of the movies, just ask yourself this: What is going to happen if I report several movies hosted on Audiovault to their rightful owners? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450794/#p450794 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I'm going back to the mod list to see if we can find a compromise. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450785/#p450785 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Wait. You mean you're not supposed to literally do that? Uh. Explains why I'm not invited to any more dinner parties. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450758/#p450758 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content On the subject of acting like monkeys: the term shit-slinging probably comes from the monkey's habit of shitting into their hands and throwing it at anything they don't like the look of. I confess I am guilty of that. the human version anyway. The monkey approach is a bit insanitary for me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450751/#p450751 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I dunno. My parents didn't feel the need to pirate material to make sure I was enjoying myself. Radio is free, and we had several. We had a TV as well, and while I didn't get as much out of it as somebody else might, I enjoyed it plenty, let me tell you. Because I had a brother at that time, we often played together as well. Yes, I was bought music sometimes, and we had video game systems paid for legitimately, and we sometimes watched movies that we rented and all that jazz. My parents had to pay for cable, as well as for electricity to run our gadgets. And I agree wholeheartedly that just providing food, water and shelter is not really enough. We need some sort of socialization.Where I fail to make the leap is when the "therefore piracy" card is played. The vault is piracy; there are no two ways about it. We can debate how ugly the morality is until the cows come home, but there's no point. Everyone's viewpoint is different here. At the end of the day, this is not an attack on the vault, it's a desire to change the face of the forum. Try and view it from that angle. No no...if this was an attack on the vault, don't you think we'd be engaged in trying to have it shut down by alerting authorities or some such about copyright violations? And do you see anybody actually doing that?Again, we aren't saying "you can't do it, ever, at all, period. We control you." We are saying "We just don't want you to do it here". We're not violating your rights. We're not telling you that the rest of your life must be spent in a box, with provision for only food, water and basic shelter. We are telling you that in this very limited corner of the internet, we're enforcing stricter measures about copyright. I really don't see how difficult that is to understand.Ironcross, this is one of those instances where I agree with you almost entirely. While my view of the staff team is not as dim as yours is (which is to be expected, of course), I agree with you that backbiting does not help. Incidentally, I haven't seen many instances where a decision has been made by the team, and then a member of the team comes in and publicly stomps on it. Aaron's proposal here was not a collaborative effort; it was Arron acting on his own initiative, which, to be fair, may be at least partially my own damn fault. I've been trying to get him to be more assertive, but I took that to mean he was going to participate more and wait/be passive less. I didn't dream he would start just making pronouncements like this, which is part of why I made the mistake of publicly challenging him in the manner that I did, and making the conflict a bit worse.Suffice it to say that yes, we are discussing some sort of alternative to (or addition to) the email list. It's clear this method of communication, while it does work, is not necessarily suiting the needs of everyone here.Oh also? Fun fact: someone mentioned that Dark should still be around, still be able to contribute on list. He...uh, kind of is. He's a database editor and has never actually left the list. He goes for a mostly hands-off approach, but on a lot of the big issues, he does still chime in from time to time. He does not have the staff standing he once had, but in deference to his long history being an administrator of the forum, it was decided to keep him on, and as far as I know and have been made aware, everyone seems happy with the arrangement. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450750/#p450750 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I play in trees. All the time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450749/#p450749 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content This idea that anything beyond basic needs is an unimportant luxury isn't really true you know. It's been demonstrated in monkeys that lack of stimulation and social interaction is extremely damaging. It's forbidden to do this to humans, but they have put monkeys in boxes and deprived them of all but food water and shelter, and it basically destroys them. For a monkey, playing in the trees with it's family and friends is what keeps them socially functional and mentally healthy, and for humans, it's not that different. We don't play in trees, but we do have our equivalent. It's things like the internet, music, TV shows, pop culture, etc. These are the things that our social interactions are based around. These are the things that keep us mentally healthy. So even though things like TV, audio/video games, this forum, etc are trivial as individual entities, the thing that they're a small part of, is absolutely necessary for our health. Parents of sighted toddlers can give them plenty of stimulation just by plonking them in front of a TV. Maybe the reason so many blind people rock and press their eyes and stuff is that their brains aren't getting as much stimulation as they require, so they self-stimulate by creating those tactile sensations. My stance all along with regard to the vault is that it isn't causing service providers any appreciable loss, and isn't a service that is even available to buy if people wanted to. It's the audio only portion of audio described TV and film. It's a single depository taken from a wide selection of providers that no one person could access in its entirety via legal means. And I think it provides something valuable to a group of people who are a bit deprived when it comes to the stimulation that this kind of pop cultural entertainment provides. Audio games are incredibly stimulating for the blind, and look how deprived we are in that regard because there's no money in it so hardly anyone bothers making that kind of content. This is why I've always felt there's no moral substance underpinning an attack on the vault. It's all just adherence to the law for its own sake. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450742/#p450742 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content This idea that anything beyond basic needs is an unimportant luxury isn't really true you know. It's been demonstrated in monkeys that lack of stimulation and social interaction is extremely damaging. It's forbidden to do this to humans, but they have put monkeys in boxes and deprived them of all but food water and shelter, and it basically destroys them. For a monkey, playing in the trees with it's family and friends is what keeps them socially functional and mentally healthy, and for 21st century humans, it's not that different. We don't play in trees, but we do have our equivalent. It's things like the internet, music, TV shows, pop culture, etc. These are the things that our social interactions are based around. These are the things that keep us mentally healthy. So even though things like TV, audio/video games, this forum, etc are trivial as individual entities, the thing that they're a small part of, is absolutely necessary for our health. Parents of sighted toddlers can give them plenty of stimulation just by plonking them in front of a TV. Maybe the reason so many blind people rock and press their eyes and stuff is that their brains aren't getting as much stimulation as they require, so they self-stimulate by creating those tactile sensations. My stance all along with regard to the vault is that it isn't causing service providers any appreciable loss, and isn't a service that is even available to buy if people wanted to. It's the audio only portion of audio described TV and film. It's a single depository taken from a wide selection of providers that no one person could access in its entirety via legal means. And I think it provides something valuable to a group of people who are a bit deprived when it comes to the stimulation that this kind of pop cultural entertainment provides. Audio games are incredibly stimulating for the blind, and look how deprived we are in that regard because there's no money in it so hardly anyone bothers making that kind of content. This is why I've always felt there's no moral substance underpinning an attack on the vault. It's all just adherence to the law for its own sake. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450742/#p450742 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content This idea that anything beyond basic needs is an unimportant luxury isn't really true you know. It's been demonstrated in monkeys that lack of stimulation and social interaction is extremely damaging. It's forbidden to do this to humans, but they have put monkeys in boxes and deprived them of all but food water and shelter, and it basically destroys them. For a monkey, playing in the trees with it's family and friends is what keeps them sane, and for humans, it's not that different. We don't play in trees, but we do have our equivalent. It's things like the internet, music, TV shows, pop culture, etc. These are the things that our social interactions are based around. These are the things that keep us mentally healthy. So even though things like TV, audio/video games, this forum, etc are trivial as individual entities, the thing that they're a small part of, is absolutely necessary for our health. Parents of sighted toddlers can give them plenty of stimulation just by plonking them in front of a TV. Maybe the reason so many blind people rock and press their eyes and stuff is that their brains aren't getting as much stimulation as they require, so they self-stimulate by creating those tactile sensations. My stance all along with regard to the vault is that it isn't causing service providers any appreciable loss, and isn't a service that is even available to buy if people wanted to. It's the audio only portion of audio described TV and film. It's a single depository taken from a wide selection of providers that no one person could access in its entirety via legal means. And I think it provides something valuable to a group of people who are a bit deprived when it comes to the stimulation that this kind of pop cultural entertainment provides. Audio games are incredibly stimulating for the blind, and look how deprived we are in that regard because there's no money in it so hardly anyone bothers making that kind of content. This is why I've always felt there's no moral substance underpinning an attack on the vault. It's all just adherence to the law for its own sake. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450742/#p450742 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content This idea that anything beyond basic needs is an unimportant luxury isn't really true you know. It's been demonstrated in monkeys that lack of stimulation and social interaction is extremely damaging. It's forbidden to do this to humans, but they have put monkeys in boxes and deprived them of all but food water and shelter, and it basically destroys them. For a monkey, playing in the trees with it's family and friends is what keeps them sane, and for humans, it's not that different. We don't play in trees, but we do have our equivalent. It's things like the internet, music, TV shows, pop culture, etc. These are the things that our social interactions are based around. These are the things that keep us mentally healthy. So even though things like TV, audio/video games, this forum, etc are trivial as individual entities, the thing that they're a small part of, is absolutely necessary for our health. Parents of sighted toddlers can give them all the stimulation they need just by plonking them in front of a TV. Maybe the reason so many blind people rock and press their eyes and stuff is that their brains aren't getting as much stimulation as they require, so they self-stimulate by creating those tactile sensations. My stance all along with regard to the vault is that it isn't causing service providers any appreciable loss, and isn't a service that is even available to buy if people wanted to. It's the audio only portion of audio described TV and film. It's a single depository taken from a wide selection of providers that no one person could access in its entirety via legal means. And I think it provides something valuable to a group of people who are a bit deprived when it comes to the stimulation that this kind of pop cultural entertainment provides. Audio games are incredibly stimulating for the blind, and look how deprived we are in that regard because there's no money in it so hardly anyone bothers making that kind of content. This is why I've always felt there's no moral substance underpinning an attack on the vault. It's all just adherence to the law for its own sake. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450742/#p450742 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I agree with the mods and admins actually coming together in a conference call rather than an email list. The list can be used to maintain things, but a lot of actual talking needs to be done that can't happen when people take hours, or days to respond.Namely, once a decision has been reached, other mods or admins do not need to be coming in and overriding anything, because that is not OK. The time for discussion is before the vote. Once the vote has been complete, tallied up, and so forth, then the decision whatever was being voted on is now in effect. If anyone wants to bring up terms and so forth, like how long a grace period, etc. again, the time to do that is before the vote. Once the decision has been made, is in absolutely not OK to come in swinging this big stick around and saying, no, we're actually going to do this.If any one member on the staff feels that they can't respect a decision once it's been made, that person should reflect on whether or not they are capable of fulfilling the duties that come along with their position. So talk with one another. Hell, set something up where once a month, you work out a time to have an actual voice conference to talk about issues. At this time though, I think that everyone should get together and actually try to get to know one another for a while before talking about forum business. Maybe that will help in making everyone feel like they are part of a team, rather than a loosely governed group of entities after somewhat of the same goal.Either way, I'm of the opinion that this has to change, because the staff is really not looked at favorably right now, and continues to collectively shove its foot up its own ass. Things that make it even worse are bad PR, and I feel that's a majority of what we see in the moment.P.S. Obviously, there are times in which things do need to be done in the moment, and you work out the logistics after the fact. Large flare ups and so forth demand a more immediate response with more hard hitting measures. However, knowing when that type of response is appropriate is definitely needed. I'll therefore somewhat echo my sentiment from above and say that any staff member who feels that they may not be able to make that kind of judgement might want to take a look at whether they 're really able to be an effective member of staff. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450710/#p450710 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I want to point out two things:First, I did contribute to making this flare up again by publicly disagreeing with Aaron. Suffice it to say that I had my reasons, but I apologize for doing so.Second, if you're that up in arms about the unfairness of it all regarding access to media - and hey, I hear ya there - instead of just pirating or trying to encourage others to do the same, why not try and use the power we have to make a difference? It doesn't always work, but it beats just sneaking around in the dark hoping we don't get caught, and then howling when we are inevitably told that we shouldn't be doing what we're doing.In other words, there is more to this than "it's not fair so let's pirate". This goes back to using one's power for good. Everybody's got a little, and if we work together, there's really no saying what could happen eventually. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450703/#p450703 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I have been reading these topics and I believe that it's time for me to chime in. First, the quote on quote need for media. You don't. Is it cool to be able to talk with somebody about a new movie that came out? Hell yeah it is. Do you need to? No, you don't. Here's a little insight into me. I have grown up for 15 years of my life and have only watched 10 or so movies. To this day, a period of a couple years, I am a healthy, creative, and perfectly normal individual if you don't take my blindness into account. So, to all of y'all screaming about the necessity of movies, I say bullshit. There is a key difference between a need and an amenity, something that a lot of you seem not to realise. Most of you are classifying an amenity as a need rather than a want. Now, consider this. Let's say I just have had a crappy day, deciding to be an asshole and reporting audiovault to several streaming services. What is going to happen? There is a chance that some service providers won't give two shits about it, but as I report more and more movies as being pirated the risk of them deciding to do something about it rises exponentially. If you disagree, by all means, post on here and I'll gladly do my best to report the content on the site so we will both witness the outcome. Will the providers sue you? Probably not. They will most likely demand you take their content down first. However, there is no guarantee that, should you get another server to host the content on, they will be as generous. Some of you are probably thinking "Well aren't you such an asshole?" Yes, I partially am. I get it. People can't access the content within some countries, but that does not give them the permission to break the law. We are back to movies being an amenity, not a need. Yes, it sucks that some currencies have bad conversion rates, yes, it's terrible that some countries do not have access to the content, but that's the world we live in. It isn't going to change just because a few people bitch, that's frankly what a lot of you are doing here, about it. If you are going to disagree with me about movies being an amenity, consider this: Were movies a thing in 1000s? Were movies a thing when this all began? No, they weren't. Was food a thing? How bout water, shelter, space, the list could go on. If you are currently considering writing a reply that goes along the lines of "So you're saying that pirating books is okay?" Nope, it isn't. While there were tales and stories way before movies, they can be accessed virtually from anywhere, and are certainly easier to legally get a hold of today. You can try and apply the argument of unequal currency and bad transfer rates to books as well, and will partially work today, key being partially. Thing is, there is way more stuff online that you can find in regards to books. Yes, it may not be most recent, but that's where the amenity areas come in. Do you need the most recent novel? No. Now to all of you posting sarcastic remarks about the moderators, Griff included. Your posts do not help in any way. In fact, they probably cause more bad blood between you and the admin team. Do you think the decision was an easy one to make? Have you considered being in an administrator's shoes? Clearly not when it comes to audiogames.net. While I am surprised at the closing of the Audiovault topic rather than it's deletion, my understanding is that the moderator team only deletes topics that have gotten way way out of hand. That topic didn't. Plane and simple. I'm simply tired of the mods receiving negative feedback about every little wrong thing they do. Hang on, let me rephrase that: I am tired of seeing moderators receiving negative treatment just because YOU, note the upper case, think they did something wrong. Were I a Mod, I'd have said "screw this" a long, long time ago. It's enough. Do not try and claim that you would be fine with others treating you like that, because we all know that you wouldn't be. I get that you're pissed about the decision the team made, hell, I won't be surprised if everyone on this forum knows your stance because you made it abundantly clear, but that's why that close button exists. Go outside, relax, howl at the moon about Jayde's unfairness if you want, just take a break. On another note, why is Jayde being given a cold shoulder? You do realise that the decision was agreed upon by the entire moderator team? Is it because Jayde is the new guy? Why are you all not treating Liam, Aaron, Carter, and everyone else with equal dislike and distaste? Hypocritical much? Also, somebody said that you can't watch movies without audio description and get the same experience as a sighted individual. Here's a fun fact: Even with the audio description you would have a different experience. It will bring you closer, but it will never be the same, never. Those 10 movies I mentioned earlier? Yeah, all without audio description. Guess w
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Hey 130.I 100 percent agree with the fact that staff disagreeing with each other is unprofessional. Again. All of us (staff that is) need to sit down and I think have an actual conversation instead of bouncing messages around. I'm going to try to get that ball rolling.The webmasters are very alive. yes. they have their own projects, and we hear from them about as much as you guys do. A plan of attrition is not put in to place, but... That is something that we can't be blamed for as again we're stuck having to act on our own.I can't speak for Dark but if he checks this topic I hope he'll chime in with his own 2 pents. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450694/#p450694 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content @Jade I told you last time over the closing of the BMMV thread that I didn't view any of this as a personal vendetta. And that's still true. If you could look in my head you'd see it, and that I don't think anyone's out to get me. The truth of my behaviour is that I think you're just being a power tripper again, so I thought I'd point out who it was who helped turn this thread into something that needed moderation. I fully intended for this thread to be totally above board and a proper thread to discuss audio described content legally. I also in a winking way said we could discuss the setting up of an alternate forum as long as we didn't reference any pirated content or sites that host it. I meant it. There was no need for this thread ever to break any rules and require closure, which is what Aaron said would happen. I actually don't give a toss if this thread is closed. If you'd have just let Aaron carry out his reasonable compromise, I wouldn't have said a word. But again, you had to come in within no time and decide you had to dominate the situation . It's like you won't let anyone do a moderate bit of moderation, you had to come in and show everyone how much tougher you are. And finally before I give up on this, you basically accused me of being delusional over the idea of this thread being closed as part of the moderation, and yet there it is in black and white, exactly what Aaron said. Then you said you didn't reword Aaron's statement to anyone's disadvantage. It was to my disadvantage because you used it to show how I had a victim mentality and thought everything revolved around me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450676/#p450676 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
2019-07-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : LoquaciousGamer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content Liam, I hope that by "discuss", you intend for there to be an actual conversation between the moderators, because I think we as users can all agree that the email list you appear to use as the sole method of communication is simply not working due to the different moderation styles of Aaron, Jayde and yourself. I think that an actual conversation will help to make it very clear what each person's stance is on several matters relating to the forum. A conference call would also allow for some actual discussion, not the I-posted-it-on-the-list-but-no-one-replied rubbish we keep seeing, which just leads to confusion and discontent among the users of this forum.Just as you as moderators and administrators have expectations of us users, I think that it is only fair that we have expectations of you. As one example, I think that it is inappropriate and unprofessional for moderators and administrators to be publicly disagreeing with each other on matters relating to content allowed on the forum; these disagreements should be sorted out before any such posts appear on the forum. You want this forum to be respected, but you cannot honestly expect this to be the case when you are not united in your stance. Another expectation that us users have is that you find out what has happened to the webmasters. Do you even know if they're alive? And if they're not in a position to continue looking after this forum, do you have an idea as to who will take up this responsibility?This might be controversial, but I'm calling for Dark to be re-appointed to the email list (since this is the only communication method you have) to serve in an advisory capacity. I think that, due to his former widespread support and the lack of general discontent among users when he had this duty on the forum, he should be able to offer his opinions on matters of moderation, but he should not be allowed to make any decisions on his own; essentially, if you think that his expertise would be valuable in a controversial situation, you would ask him for his stance and how he would handle it. I think that this would be useful to help draw a line between Jayde and Aaron, who have almost opposite moderation styles. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450672/#p450672 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I am not going to speak for the rest of the staff here, but I believe there have been some wires crossed as far as communication goes. I'm hoping we will get together as a team and discuss things some what soonish.Sorry if that sounds vague, but I don't feel like mud slinging. In this case, I will just say I think everyone is wrong inthis situation, and I hope it can be sorted out. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450661/#p450661 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I thought the plan was always to delete this topic once things got set up anyway. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450655/#p450655 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Ok so I'm not even sure why I'm posting here since I don't check this topic much anymore, but I do find it quite amusing how much jayde is discrediting himself here by joining in with the mud slinging as soon as it's against. Surely as a mod, you should try your best to stay impartial or better yet not reply at all and leave it to other mods. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450654/#p450654 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I have done no such thing. I reworded it, but not to anyone's advantage or disadvantage.The only difference between Aaron's proposal and mine is that mine could be done right now, or very soon, while Aaron's gives a few weeks more time to cobble something together. I personally feel Aaron's stance is way, way too soft, given what we're talking about, and given the grace period already provided, and given the fact that we've got an alternative forum available, and said forum seems to be getting its metaphoric feet under it.Aaron posed his idea right here for all the world to see. So did I. If he's in the wrong, then so am I; if he's -not in the wrong, then neither am I. As he said himself, this was not specifically put to list first.The issue I have with you, Flackers, is that you're supposing that you know my reason for wanting to accelerate things. If you think it's because it's your topic, and that I'd be gentler on someone else, you're dead wrong. If you think it's because I like being contrary, you're wrong. If you think I feel I've got a score to settle with you, you're also wrong. Frankly, I'm just getting tired of people thinking they know what I'm thinking, and, far worse, ignoring what I say when I tell them my intentions. At that point, what you're doing is tantamount to declaring that I am lying. I have done many things here, but I do not lie. If I tell you that my intentions are such-and-such, you can be awfully sure that's exactly what my intentions were. So when I tell you I want to speed up Aaron's plan only because we've already got a workable solution, because we no longer have a good reason to extend our grace period, why not take me at my word, step out of the center of the universe and regain some perspective? This is seriously tiresome. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450652/#p450652 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I didn't imagine anything, and don't have a victim mentality like you're suggesting. Aaron said: OK, so here's the plan. I've not put this to the staff list, consider this an immediate override, this is, I think, the best compromise for everyone.Once you've put the forum up, make another post in this topic with the links again, and the plan will be to keep that post up for around 14 days, afterwhich, remove the links and I shall close the topic.Then you said you want to put the hammer down by the end of this week. You were clearly talking about over-riding Aaron's 14 day plan. A plan which would result in the closure of this topic. Now you're saying putting the hammer down sooner is a reference to something completely different. And you've also rewritten what Aaron said in an effort to undermine me. This is what you say Aaron said: Aaron then came in and basically said that at some point he wants to host a link to the new site for quite awhile before closing that down and thenputting a blanket down on the discussion on how to obtain pirated material while you're here. You've totally reinterpretted what he said to suit your point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450649/#p450649 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I didn't imagine anything, and don't have a victim mentality like you're suggesting. Aaron said: OK, so here's the plan. I've not put this to the staff list, consider this an immediate override, this is, I think, the best compromise for everyone.Once you've put the forum up, make another post in this topic with the links again, and the plan will be to keep that post up for around 14 days, afterwhich, remove the links and I shall close the topic.Then you said you want to put the hammer down by the end of this week. You were clearly talking about over-riding Aaron's 14 day plan. A plan which would result in the closure of this topic. Now you're saying putting the hammer down sooner is a reference to something completely different. And you've also rewritten what Aaron said in an effort to undermine me. This is what you say Aaron said: Aaron then came in and basically said that at some point he wants to host a link to the new site for quite awhile before closing that down and thenputting a blanket down on the discussion on how to obtain pirated material while you're here. You've totally reinterpretted what he said to suit your point. Your behaviour just defies belief. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450649/#p450649 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I didn't imagine anything, and don't have a victim mentality like you're suggesting. Aaron said: OK, so here's the plan. I've not put this to the staff list, consider this an immediate override, this is, I think, the best compromise for everyone.Once you've put the forum up, make another post in this topic with the links again, and the plan will be to keep that post up for around 14 days, afterwhich, remove the links and I shall close the topic.Then you said you want to put the hammer down by the end of this week. You were clearly talking about over-riding Aaron's 14 day plan. A plan which would result in the closure of this topic. Now you're saying putting the hammer down sooner is a reference to something completely different. And you've also rewritten what Aaron said in an effort to undermine me. This is what you say Aaron said: Aaron then came in and basically said that at some point he wants to host a link to the new site for quite awhile before closing that down and thenputting a blanket down on the discussion on how to obtain pirated material while you're here. You've totally reinterpretted what he said to suit your point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450649/#p450649 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I didn't imagine anything, and don't have a victim mentality like you're suggesting. Aaron said: OK, so here's the plan. I've not put this to the staff list, consider this an immediate override, this is, I think, the best compromise for everyone.Once you've put the forum up, make another post in this topic with the links again, and the plan will be to keep that post up for around 14 days, afterwhich, remove the links and I shall close the topic.Then you said you want to put the hammer down by the end of this week. You were clearly talking about over-riding Aaron's 14 day plan. A plan which would result in the closure of this topic. Now you're saying putting the hammer down sooner is a reference to something completely different. And you've also rewritten what Aaron said in an effort to undermine me. This is what you say Aaron said?: Aaron then came in and basically said that at some point he wants to host a link to the new site for quite awhile before closing that down and thenputting a blanket down on the discussion on how to obtain pirated material while you're here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450649/#p450649 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I didn't imagine anything, and don't have a victim mentality like you're suggesting. Aaron said: OK, so here's the plan. I've not put this to the staff list, consider this an immediate override, this is, I think, the best compromise for everyone.Once you've put the forum up, make another post in this topic with the links again, and the plan will be to keep that post up for around 14 days, afterwhich, remove the links and I shall close the topic.Then you said you want to put the hammer down by the end of this week. You were clearly talking about over-riding Aaron's 14 day plan. A plan which would result in the closure of this topic. Now you're saying putting the hammer down sooner is a reference to something completely different. You've rewritten what Aaron said in an effort to undermine me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450649/#p450649 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I didn't imagine anything, and don't have a victim mentality like you're suggesting. Aaron said: OK, so here's the plan. I've not put this to the staff list, consider this an immediate override, this is, I think, the best compromise for everyone.Once you've put the forum up, make another post in this topic with the links again, and the plan will be to keep that post up for around 14 days, afterwhich, remove the links and I shall close the topic.Then you said you want to put the hammer down by the end of this week. You were clearly talking about over-riding Aaron's 14 day plan. A plan which would result in the closure of this topic. Now you're saying putting the hammer down sooner is a reference to something completely different. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450649/#p450649 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Flackers, seriously, I'm not sure what you want here. Since when is the closure of a topic an action against the creator of that topic, instead of an action to stop a topic in general? Goodness. This is taking "it's all about me" to a whole new level.I also don't see the bit where I said I was going to close this thread. If you'd be so good as to point it out for me?What's being talked about here is that when someone pops up saying "does the vault have this show?", that's not good, and will need to stop. That did not happen here. What happened here is that there continues to be talk about how to talk about the vault, when at least a temporary solution has already been found. Aaron then came in and basically said that at some point he wants to host a link to the new site for quite awhile before closing that down and then putting a blanket down on the discussion on how to obtain pirated material while you're here. I then said that while we do want to give people that chance, I feel like we've already done as promised, and could probably just institute that blanket ban on discussion of how to obtain pirated material...like right now, pretty much. I also stated that this was just my opinion.At no point in that exchange did we talk about lockihng this thread. At no point in that exchange did I say a bloody thing to warrant what you're saying. Get over yourself and stop trying to make it look like you're being targeted and singled out. This is not the first time you've done this, and probably won't be the last. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450646/#p450646 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Flackers, seriously, I'm not sure what you want here.I also don't see the bit where I said I was going to close this thread.What's being talked about here is that when someone pops up saying "does the vault have this show?", that's not good, and will need to stop. That did not happen here. What happened here is that there continues to be talk about how to talk about the vault, when at least a temporary solution has already been found. Aaron then came in and basically said that at some point he wants to host a link to the new site for quite awhile before closing that down and then putting a blanket down on the discussion on how to obtain pirated material while you're here.At no point in that exchange did we talk about lockihng this thread. At no point in that exchange did I say a bloody thing to warrant what you're saying. Get over yourself. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450646/#p450646 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Well anyone can see who turned this thread into a direct discussion of the vault when it was never meant to be that. If you close this thread, that's moderation. It's moderation because it's directly linked to the vault. I discouraged that. You and Aaron encouraged it. Closing my thread is moderation against me. You're the ones whose actions lead to the need for moderation not me. Give me moderation for calling you two-faced if you like. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450641/#p450641 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Something was done when Mason created his forum, which has been up and running for...what, two weeks now?The link has been provided several times by people who frequent that site. We wanted to give people time to react to the changes, and I feel that has most definitely been done now. Any bridgework that still needs doing can be done on Mason's forum, in my opinion. We can be shut of it here.@Flackers, please reread your own last post, while considering this:Nothing I do is good enough. No matter what I do, or don't do, you or someone else will speak up and call me out for it. I feel pretty confident in head-shaking this.Conversations evolve. Thread hijacking has not really occurred here. In fact, by calling me two-faced, I'd say that's a lot more of a hijacking than anything else, because now you're bringing personal attacks into the picture. I'm also not, in fact, two-faced about this at all. The only thing I cme in here and said recently was that I think Aaron's timeline is really slow, and that it needs speeding up. That's it. So this isn't a moderation action against you, but maybe give your own actions some thought first. You're not doing yourself any favours right now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450636/#p450636 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Something was done when Mason created his forum, which has been up and running for...what, two weeks now?The link has been provided several times by people who frequent that site. We wanted to give people time to react to the changes, and I feel that has most definitely been done now. Any bridgework that still needs doing can be done on Mason's forum, in my opinion. We can be shut of it here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450636/#p450636 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Before closing this thread, I suggest you go back and read the opening post. It says quite clearly not to discuss anything illegal. I was pretty obviously telling people not to directly mention the thing we weren't allowed to discuss. It was actually the admins themselves who were the ones who encouraged open discussion of an alternative home for the vault, and in fact Aaron was the first to directly reference it. So people started openly discussing the vault with what seemed like admin approval, and now finally something concrete is happening, and suddenly it's unacceptable all of a sudden. Aaron's trying to be nice about it, Liam's been dead against it all along, but Jade, you're so two-faced it's unbelievable. If you're so keen to do everything by the letter of the law, then my law-abiding thread has been hijacked, and you need to moderate the users responsible... starting with yourselves. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450635/#p450635 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Before closing this thread, I suggest you go back and read the opening post. It says quite clearly not to discuss anything illegal. I was pretty obviously telling people not to directly mention the thing we weren't allowed to discuss. It was actually the admins themselves who were the ones who encouraged open discussion of an alternative home for the vault, and in fact Aaron was the first to directly reference it. So people started openly discussing the vault with what seemed like admin approval, and now finally something concrete is happening, and suddenly it's unacceptable all of a sudden. Aaron's trying to be nice about it, Liam's been dead against it all along, but Jade, you're so two-faced it's unbelievable. If you're so keen to do everything by the letter of the law, then my thread has been hijacked, and you need to moderate the users responsible... starting with yourselves. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450635/#p450635 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I think Aaron has a decent compremise. You don't know what's going on in rl, given it's all about a couple of members. If the forum is set up, it'll be advertised on here where the community is, and then when the community has moved over you can rid yourself of it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450620/#p450620 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I second Jayde's comment. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450618/#p450618 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Hey there. I know this isn't exactly the stream of topic at the moment, but Grryfindore, could you send me a PM please? I have a question for you.Thanks very much. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450616/#p450616 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I personally feel that this timeline should be pretty steeply sped up.We've already had, what, several weeks of grace? There's already a forum up where you can talk to your heart's content about this. Go there if you want to, while it's up, and keep on working on solutions of your own. There are options, and I don't want it being suggested that we're not being charitable.Were it me, I'd suggest that we put the hammer down by the end of this week. But that's just me, just my own opinion; I'm posting it here for transparency. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450612/#p450612 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content OK, so here's the plan. I've not put this to the staff list, consider this an immediate override, this is, I think, the best compromise for everyone.Once you've put the forum up, make another post in this topic with the links again, and the plan will be to keep that post up for around 14 days, after which, remove the links and I shall close the topic. I am hoping this can all be done by August 16 as that's while I am here, otherwise another staff member shall have to do this until I get back on August 31st. From the 14 day point on it'll be word of mouth. You will be able to discuss audio described content such as your favourite shows and stuff here, but not where or how to get that content unless it's a legal source such as iTunes or Netflics. If people ask where to find the content, then everyone can contact each other privately.For what it's worth, I genuinely believe the vault is an important thing to have for the purposes of preservation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450605/#p450605 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content OK, so here's the plan. I've not put this to the staff list, consider this an immediate override, this is, I think, the best compromise for everyone.Once you've put the forum up, make another post in this topic with the links again, and the plan will be to keep that post up for around 14 days, after which, remove the links and I shall close the topic. I am hoping this can all be done by August 16 as that's while I am here, otherwise another staff member shall have to do this until I get back on August 31st. I think that August 16 is a very fare deadline, From that point on it'll be word of mouth. You will be able to discuss audio described content such as your favourite shows and stuff here, but not where or how to get that content unless it's a legal source such as iTunes or Netflics. If people ask where to find the content, then everyone can contact each other privately.For what it's worth, I genuinely believe the vault is an important thing to have for the purposes of preservation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450605/#p450605 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I replied to your email regarding setting up a forum. If you want to give me cpanel access to the website, I can have it set up in 2 minutes, literally. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450592/#p450592 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Hi guys, I have just pushed out a news section on The Vault I looked at the pole someone else posted in regards to where people'd like audiodescribed content discussion etc, and came to the conclusion that Discord and a online web based forum is something that we can do.The Discord server is here And the forum is still a work in progress. If it doesn't work out for any reason, I'll set up a googlegroup's mailinglist/ forum right away. I know many also wanted a subreddit, however that is something I am not familiar with and I couldn't even create a private subreddit due to reddit's policies/ guidelines. However if someone would be willing to create one, I wouldn't mind hopping on there and participating Cheers!Grryf URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/450579/#p450579 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content hi.I like the new featured list on the website. It's so cool! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448147/#p448147 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Well, though I can't promise it will last through the month, you could always use Mason's forum as a temporary discussion spot until you get something of your own set up, as it's aloud in his rules. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448123/#p448123 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content Hi, Another update I have started working on a forum, but if it turns out to be too much hassel, we will go with google groups. easier that way. Looking at a forum software as that seems to have the most votes. Should also start adding news and such to the website itself, but it lacks interactivity which we had on the forum here, but at least it will keep people up to date.Cheers.Grryf URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448106/#p448106 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content I take what I read on TorrentFreak with a grain of salt, so why am I bringing them up?There was an article on there, not sure how long it has been now talking about HBO canseling accounts that were using a proxy or a VPN to access their service.These customers were willing to pay for the service, but because they couldn't get it in their country, they had to resort to a VPN to gain access.Netflix on the otherhand sees you're attempting to use a VPN, but instead of canseling your account, they block you from using a proxy or VPN, but not only that, but sometimes if you're lucky enough, that movie or show you tried to watch may end up on your local Netflix.I've recently noticed this with a TV show called Glee.So sometimes, it does pay off, either that or Netflix is monitoring my searches, which can be a little creepy, but if it ends up with good results in the long run, then it's obviously working for them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447757/#p447757 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content grryfindore wrote:and really if the admins/ moderators had asked me to remove the direct links from the bmmv topic, and just keep the link to the homepage there, I would have been very happy to comply.This is by far the most worrying thing I have read onto the topic, which kind of disturbs me a bit. And I would agree with the sentiment here. Simply locking the topic, or a topic, whatever one that might have been without a reasonable basis, for example, a report or a request posted elsewhere... is at best, a hasty attempt. I think this has been talked about before but things are not having an outlook for change anyway. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447738/#p447738 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content @107, and I get your point. But my point is just as valid, so its a kinda stailmate of sorts. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447717/#p447717 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content doesn't stop it being illegal, which is my point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447713/#p447713 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content @105, yes. But the most they can do is geolocation. I have experience with that and can say that geolocation is wildly inaccurate. (They could also ask your browser for its location, but if your smart, you'll block it.) Ad if your on a VPN, it will give the location of the VPN server, not your actual location. Not sure about the browser location though, which is why you should block it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447705/#p447705 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content @105, yes. But the most they can do is geolocation. I have experience with that and can say that geolocation is wildly inaccurate. (They could also ask your browser for its location, but if your smart, you'll block it.) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447705/#p447705 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content @103, right. But that's the brilliance of VPNs -- its hard to detect that your on a VPN unless:1) your ISP tracks all packets sent from your computer and has tools like wireshark at their disposal; or2) someone hacks your router and is able to track all packets sent from the network.There are probably other ways I don't know of. But those are the two ways I know of to detect a VPN. 99 percent of the time it won't be noticeable. also, I edited post 102. So big companies who can't get their way will have no idea your not from the US and your actually in Germany. Its probably the closest thing you have to a "legal" way of obtaining AD. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447702/#p447702 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Audio Described Content
Re: Audio Described Content @103, right. But that's the brilliance of VPNs -- its hard to detect that your on a VPN unless:1) your ISP tracks all packets sent from your computer and has tools like wireshark at their disposal; or2) someone hacks your router and is able to track all packets sent from the network.There are probably other ways I don't know of. But those are the two ways I know of to detect a VPN. 99 percent of the time it won't be noticeable. also, I edited post 102. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447702/#p447702 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
