Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I hope this situation has given you much more knowledge and I wish you the best with your social work experience. You are a very good coach URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416471/#p416471 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) There's no need for excessive guilt. Contact the appropriate people, do the right thing, and remember this for future. No one is interested in whipping you for a mistake. This wasn't the best choice you could've made, but recognition is good. Not a one of us is perfect, believe me.For what it's worth, I hope the whole situation ends up working out for everyone such that no one has to get hurt any more than absolutely necessary.To clarify: I am not yet a social worker. When I get my accreditation later this year, I will be a registered social service worker, but I'm not quite there yet. I have a ton of background and plenty of theoretical knowledge, but front-line staff I definitely am -not at this point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416468/#p416468 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) how do you unsubscribe from a topic? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416454/#p416454 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I see what I have done. I have been writing in this topic, to y'all, instead of talking to parents, and other people. And I am sorry for not taking care of the solution correctly, even after multiple people have redirected me. Obviously I am not a person who should be involved in this conflict much longer. I haven't been doing what I should have, and I owe an apology to the people who I have not progressed this situation to, the right people. I should not have this situation on my hands anymore. I must tell her mom about what's happened, and then leave the rest up to everyone else who is actually involved. Plus the sister would be much much more helpful with helping this situation since she is the prime victim, I am not even a victim.My intensions coming on here were not to be bad, or harmful, and I have to admit, I do not know what I am doing anymore. So I need to tell my friend's mom, and just let everyone else handle it. I will break contact with the sister, and my friend and I will talk about other things. This is not an appropriate topic for us to be talking about, clearly. I am not hurt by anything said here, if anything I am thankful for the honesty that has been provided. I have been using this topic to delay what I need to do, I unintensionally have taken a good conversation and turned it bad, and I, whether or not I want to admit, have disrespected everyone involved by not taking care of it like I should be, and have disrespected the people on this forum by not listening. I hope my reputation here is not completely shattered, however I can understand why people would no longer want to help me or answer any questions.I will tell her mom and then I'm done with this situation. As for this thread, I will not be apart of the situation anymore after I tell her parents, so you will not here anymore from me, sorry for the cliff hanger. But someone requested I keep the thread for evidence, so it will still be available, plus it is a perfect example of what not to do. It could help someone in the future if they are struggling like me. I would like to that my tiny role out of the way, and not put myself in the situation again, so it is wise for me not to read anymore replies after this, so I am not tempted to jump back in. I apologize for the cliff hanger, my friend can post the solution if they feel the desire. They may decide to, they may not. I'm sorry I havelet this happened, again not just sorry to the forum, but to everyone I have delayed this progress with. I won't be distracted with this topic anymore, and I can get my small role out of the way, and then just hope for the best. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416453/#p416453 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) going to agree with jayde above. From the OP's very first post, it is evident that he has a lack of understanding on how mental health, family structures, and the interactions of outside stimuli tend to interact together. he disregards the situation of the bully, not realizing that such information is useful in avoiding a solution that results in someone getting horribly injured, killed or the abuse moved somewhere else. Yet this person wants to pretend to be a social worker sympathizing with just one side, already resulting in a negative outcome of victomhood defensively popping in; Something a professional would anticipate to occur and would work to avoid or minimize in the process of a therapy and effective solution, as explained by Jayde. Quite literally the first step that should of been taken is to contact known family and affected parties to coordinate an intervention by professional authorities. Your meddling in the situation has already compromised useful evidence and resources, and caused someone to go very withdrawn from trying to seek help. before things get worse, you need to tell parents and councilors in your school about your friends issue, and let them escalate the situation to other authorities once an investigation is conducted. And by the love of god, kick solution three out of your head. Going back to what I said about disregarding the bully's own situation, this type of knowledge helps in somewhat predicting potential reactions to negative stimulus as your proposing. the mass of negative texts will either get ignored, his bullying either expanding to more targets or worsening for current targets, your friend being found severely injured, or a mass shooting at your school (people can react differently to what your assumptions predicted it to be? Who would of known).. Also, fighting bullying with more bullying never tends to work; the thing you miss in television or movies of that happening is the bully finding a new target. Whether that be another student, family member or a small adorable kitten. Note: I'm not actually a social worker unlike post 48. However, the stuff I tended to do at internship and other work sites had me interacting with university social work departments, along with the DCF of our state and non-profits related to such causes as improved foster care and mental health. Civilian involvement in these fields are always directed and monitored by appropriate professionals, and civilians were always advised to contact the proper authorities first instead of going on their own (a problem with their volunteers trying to resolve home or friend situations just because they worked as a volunteer for a mental health care non-profit was weirdly common). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416447/#p416447 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I'm becoming very troubled by what I'm reading here, on multiple angles.First, I'm troubled because if the abuse is deeper and more widespread than we thought, and isn't just external bullying (which is way more than enough on its own, of course), then that's just sad, and I feel for everyone involved. However, a desire to protect your abuser is, for some, a natural outgrowth of victim behaviour. It happens because victimhood, painful and awful as it is, is a known commodity. It is something that is relatively well-understood, and if not precisely safe, it's at least familiar. Taking a wrecking-ball to it (which is what you're trying to do at the moment) is bound to produce bad results.And that brings me to my next point. I have to say this right up front, and you may not like it. In fact, I can almost guarantee that you won't like it.Zarvox, you are not a social worker, a child services worker, a mental health counsellor or anything else. You are, as far as I understand it, a high-school student who is enraged, sickened and disgusted by the abuse you're seeing. You want to help, and that's extremely good of you, but you are frankly not in any sort of position to decide what the best course of action is. Your prior posts in this thread have proven this beyond any shadow of a doubt. If you have been telling anyone that the only way forward is foster care, you are hugely overstepping yourself. It may be the best course, when it comes down to it, but you are not the one to make that qualification, and upping the ante that way and mentioning details like that is a really surefire way to get everyone involved to clam up. Who, after all, wants their family to spontaneously combust?This is why there are people who go to school for interventions like this, and why it takes years before one has an appropriate touch. Your job, as a sort of civilian first responder, so to speak, is to help the people involved inform the appropriate authorities (school, parents of bullied woman, police, perhaps). That's it. Whatever happens from there is out of your hands. I cannot stress this enough. You do not have any means of saying what should or should not happen. You're entitled to your opinions, of course, but your opinions don't mean much, and shoving them on anyone at this stage is just going to make everything ten times harder.My advice: talk to your friend, the one who's been bullied, and coordinate with her on getting adults involved. Adults outside the family to which the bully himself belongs, I mean. That is your sole area of responsibility at this stage. You are not a white knight. You are not morally obligated to save anyone. The more pou push, the more damage you will do. Please understand that I'm not saying any of this to spit on your attempts or to make you feel bad, but I am likely around twice your age, I'm studying social work, and I have seen and been part of numerous ugly situations in the past. I have the experience, both in and out of the classroom, to back up what I'm saying here. You dn't. And it's okay that you don't - nobody knows everything, not even by half - but please, please, cool your jets and take a few big steps back. Do what is truly best for these people. Don't just rush in and do what -you think is best. There is often a difference. You have let your anger and your outrage get in the way of good sense, but it may not be too late to fix things if you're careful. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416401/#p416401 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) So, I sent the sister the topic. Now all of that strength is gone, and she wants to do nothing but help her brother. I am telling her that these opinions are before her and I started talking, but it isn't working. So, what do I do now? Her strength is gone, she is starting to get the attitude she needs to fight for freedom, but now she is dead set on caring for her brother.Update, I am working on it. No one is to blame, this was before the sister and I started talking. But goes to show just how careful you need to think about things. A fair ending doesn't always happen, it's life, and her job is not to make this end fair, her responsibility is not to get him help, it's to get her a new family who loves her. It is not my responsibility to get him help either, nor my friend's. Does that mean I don't care at all? No, but it is not my job, it is not within my control. I need to focus on my part of the issue, and I do not expect anyone to know how serious this really is, and can't blame anyone, but this is a situation where safety is more important than a fair outcome, maybe at first it wasn't, and like I said I do not mean to blame anyone for saying or thinking what they did, but now it is at a point that our mindset needs to change. At least in my opinion. Her having the fair ending opinion certainly isn't going to help her, I know that because she was just influenced by it and I'm having to have to snap her out of it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416386/#p416386 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) So, I sent the sister the topic. Now all of that strength is gone, and she wants to do nothing but help her brother. I am telling her that these opinions are before her and I started talking, but it isn't working. So, what do I do now? Her strength is gone, she is starting to get the attitude she needs to fight for freedom, but now she is dead set on caring for her brother. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416386/#p416386 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) just replied URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416380/#p416380 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I seem to post here a lot, so I sent you a pm. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416378/#p416378 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Ok. I need to say something, and it is going to be said now. Him and his parents are going to a bad place. I dont' know where they will end up going, but they will not be going to a good place. And anyone who is talking about getting him help, you better evaluate your thoughts, eacuse his sister and this friend are suffering at the hands of him. His sister especialy. I am convincing her that foster care is that anser. It is most definitely the answer, and I will help her get there, and my friend and I will hep her every step. Him getting help should not be a concern to anyone anymore. The safety of these girls and everyone else is. I will continue to motivate her to fight for wanting fostr care, and we will get police involved immediately. The evidence of messages and my friend's abuse won't eve n be necessary to achieve what we need to. The sister's scars and story is enough. This is unbelievable and I am ready to make this nightmare over. We still need an master plan, but it we need one fast. I need any suggestions possible, forget the outcome of the kid and the parents. Help us get a plan rolling URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416376/#p416376 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Ok. I am talking with the sister. By the way, I double checked that my friend and this sister are not the same person. My mind wanted me to make sure that they were different people before I continue. And they are. This sister has no idea what wrong and right is, she doesn't know what options are available. This is truly sad. The brother does physically abuse her, and she has mentioned sharp objects are involved, and that can count as a weapon. So I think she has quite a story to tell and will be more than a grate help to ending this for her, my friend, and anyone else who's in that bastard's mind. I have more details, but I do not wish to give them out without permission. But wanted to give an update. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416368/#p416368 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Ok. I am talking with the sister. By the way, I double checked that my frienAnd they are. This sister has no idea what wrong and right is, she doesn't know what aoptions are avilable. This is truely dad. The brother does physically abuse her, and she has mentioned sharp objects are invloved, and that can count as a weapon. So I think she has quite a story to tell and will be more than a grate help to ending this for her, my friend, and anyone else who's in that bastard's mind. I have more details, but I do not wish to give them out wihtout permission. But wanted to give an update and this sister are not the same person. My mind wanted me to make sure that they were different people before I continue. a URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416368/#p416368 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Wow.. This has me properly fired up.. LOL. I can definitely feel where you're coming from, as I'm extremely hotheaded and quick-tempered. Things like this are what drive me up the GODDAMN WALL.. I also don't care about the hole idea of "oh he's been abused so take it easy on him," honestly it's not my place to fix the world's problems, or people's problems, especially if you choose to be a piece of shit and target others. I definitely have my fair share of problems but I don't go around stomping on people to make myself feel better, even though I'm very cynical about most people I know that the world's not *completely* fucked. A situation similar to this actually made me withdraw from being social shortly after I first started high school, because all I wanted to do was fine whoever I felt did wrong and throw them down a flight of cement stairs. As a parent, if this were my kid, I'd call/go into the school and throw an absolute fit, because I know how most school could care less about these things. Maybe possibly even pay a visit to the parent's house. The best thing to do, IMO, surprising too coming from me, is to just try the normal way first, go to the people in charge (parents, principal, cops, etc), and if nothing gets fixed give them hell. And by that I mean media attention. Make them look like the incompetent assholes they would be if they don't handle the situation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416343/#p416343 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) All of the messages in post 1 ar every single one he has sent. So they were not lost, however since I am the main carrier of them, technically I tampered with it. Now onto more news, the friend is now in contact with the sister. She asked the sister if I am allowed to meet and talk with about about it along with my friend. She has agreed. This will definitely help with things, as she is the closest to her brother. I will definitely show her this thread. I do not hide this thread from people, it is becoming very important and is the easiest way to tell this story and get an idea of what people are thinking. So I will add a post when the sister and my friend and I work out a better solution. I am glad she wants to help us, and I am sure she is glad we want to help her, because apparently, he locked his sister out of the house on purpose last night. Oh, and finally I can start giving you information directly from her, so it is much better. I will ask her if she wants this thread to have no more information about her family and other things, and will ask if she would like to contribute. It's up to her. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416341/#p416341 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Turtlepower, I'm not advocating a light touch. Not at all. When you do bad things, you need to face consequences. I'm totally behind that. Having this boy suffer consequences for his actions is just, in my opinion. I simply believe it's possible to do both. Get him therapy or whatever, and make him extremely well aware that what he was doing will not be tolerated and isn't going to fly anymore. He deserves to get help if that means he can make things right, but that doesn't mean we can all just hand-wave and forget about the shit he's done. There may be ways to explain it, but explanation and excuse are very, very different things. Also, I agree with you regarding someone in therapy wanting to progress in some way before progress is made. Frankly, we don't know this boy nearly well enough to know whether or not he would want to change if things were put to him the right way. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. He deserves that chance, but what he does with it will determine how things proceed.Also, for clarity's sake, I feel like the OP mentioned in another thread that they're high-school age (not over 18), so there's no serious repercussion there from a legal standpoint.I recommend against going public right at this point. Your evidence, thanks to you having the girl delete those messages, is kind of thin on the ground, and you're apt to suffer pretty ridiculous backlash over that (much of it undeserved, I might add). At this point, a lot of what you've got is hearsay, unless other witnesses come forward or unless there's some way to find copies of those messages from elsewhere. You should absolutely still talk to this girl's parents, and to the school, and to the authorities if necessary, but it might be slow, hard going. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416336/#p416336 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Well, I would be hesitant to go to the authorities too, simply because I went to a school that was extremely unhelpful when it came to these sorts of issues. In fact, in my case, teachers literally saw bullying behavior going on, but did nothing because they were uncomfortable dealing with a blind child themselves. This gave me some serious, persisting issues trusting anyone in a position of authority. I hope for your sake that they aren't like that, because I know a lot of schools try to sweep such things under the rug so that they don't lose state funding. Zero tolerance policies are usually just lip service, particularly if the bully's parents are well-known/well-liked in the community.Having said that, you still have to try, or rather, her parents do. Going up the chain of command is the best way to be heard about anything, so that if it does become necessary to expose this to the media, you'll have that on your side, that you tried to go through all the official channels first.As for the kid getting therapy, let's make one thing clear. While it's noble of you all to believe that he's just a little tragic, and that he can change given time, which he probably could, he still has to want to do it. Therapy can't work unless the person wants to better themselves. I'd say that even a small child receiving play therapy won't make any progress unless they bond with the therapist and see a reason to comply. Can we please not go down the slippery slope of, "abusers abuse because their lives are hard?" There very well may be truth to it, and, let's call a spade a spade here, bullying is a form of abuse, a precursor, if you will, to later domestic violence, but using a soft touch, particularly for kids who have demonstrated actual violent tendencies as this guy has clearly done, isn't the best approach. I think he might need to be scared straight, not by any form of retaliation, but by some form of punishment that sticks.Whatever happens, I hope that this gets resolved in a manner that's suitable for all involved. In my own case, I only received some form of closure when I learned that my old elementary school, where most of the worst of the things that happened to me took place, had been closed down and demolished. The only thing that possibly could have made me happier in that scenario would have been if the place had been burned to the ground, and then the ashes pissed on. I know that's not right of me to think, but when you go through enough shit, and literally no one will help you, you don't tend to forget that in a hurry. I hope that this situation isn't quite so extreme, and that there will be people in your friend's corner to help her not only with stopping this kid, but also the aftermath of such a traumatic event. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416332/#p416332 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Yes. Not only will it raise awareness about situations like this (since it seems that even people here have gone through something similar) but like I said before, with attention drawn to everything, the school will be a lot more willing to go out of their way to do whatever they can. If people feel comfortable, even leaving comments with what they've experienced could be a big help. On the other hand though, if his name does get thrown into the mix somehow... well... the internet's not a nice place. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416317/#p416317 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Now. Should we try getting these messages publicly known? I don’t mean tying his name to it, just using these to help raise awareness for the blind. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416314/#p416314 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I know that I wouldn't be able to consider other options if I were in your situation. It would be really hard to talk me out of taking matters into my own hands and getting back at whoever is causing a problem. I flew off the handle when I heard about problems my younger sister was having at her own school, and I was plotting out what I was going to do, refusing to listen to anyone, but I just took a moment. I stepped away from everything, and that time helped me relax. My sister even came up with a genius way to fix the situation herself. You have every right to be furious. I think the meeting is a great way to start things off. Unexpected is ideal, so he doesn't have time to come up with something to protect himself. Any information to confirm what he's done would be very important so it doesn't have to rely on just accusation because the school is likely to take the most passive route. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416312/#p416312 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I'm sorry guys. I am still having fits of rage and sometimes I still wish for solution 3. I know that is wrong, but don't expect me to not wan solution 3 sometimes. I would like to get her, one of her parents, and the principal in a conversation, and send the kid to the conversation as well. That is my vision, anyway. Maybe he hasn't deleted the messages yet. However, the hard part is making the principal understand how important it is to not give the kid opportunity to delete them while being sent. If there is any chance he has them still, we want to maximize keeping that chance. I can also offer my support over facetime in this meeting if necessary. I am not apart of the problem, unless they ask to verify the messages with her phone. At that point, is when I am actually apart of this. Which despite my fears, I may have to step in, I want to if necessary, but it is scary. So tonight I will talk to her and have her talk to her mom about setting up a meeting with the principal, and stressing the importance of maximizing that chance of getting the messages on his phone assuming they are still there. He can not know about this meeting in advance, it has to be an unexpected moment, where he does not have any chance of deleting the messages URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416308/#p416308 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I'm sorry guys. I am still having fits of rage and sometimes I still wish for solution 3. I know that is wrong, but but you don't expect me to not wan solution 3 sometimes. I would like to get her, her mom, nad the principal in a conversation, and send the kid to the conversation as well. Maybehe hasn't deleted the messages already. However, the hard part is making the principal understand how importnat it is to not give the kid opportunity to delete them while being sent. If there is any chance he has them still, we want to max9imize keeping that chance. I can also offer my support over facetime in this meeting if necessary. I am not apart of the problem, unless they ask to varify the messages with her phone. At that point, is when I am actuallly apart of tis. Which despite my fears, I may have to step in, I want to if necessary, but it is scary. So tonight I will talk to her and have her talk to her mom about setting up a meeting with the principal, and stressing the importantance of maximizing tat chance of getting the messages on his phone assuming there are still htere. He can not know about this meeting in advance, it has to be an unexpected moment, where he does not have any chance of deleting the messages URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416308/#p416308 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) @defenderThat was the point i was going for. Being in the situation he's in doesn't excuse anything he's done, but children (or anyone really) can handle life with a dysfunctional family in some pretty negative ways. One child can take it out on others, while another child can handle it fine or just in a different way. Combine that with being at that age and the crowd he might be around at school, and you have a recipe for something bad. He definitely knows that what he's done (or is still doing) isn't right. Sending heat back his way would likely just screw him up even more. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416305/#p416305 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) @defenderThat was the point i was going for. Being in the situation he's in doesn't excuse anything he's done, but children (or anyone really) can handle life with a dysfunctional family in some really negative ways. One child can take it out on others, while another child can handle it fine or just in a different way. Combine that with being at that age and the crowd he might be around at school, and you have a recipe for something bad. He definitely knows that what he's done (or is still doing) isn't right. Sending heat back his way would likely just screw him up even more. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416305/#p416305 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Are you sure the texts are not saved in the cloud somewhere as a wait before full delete measure? If the police step in, they may also get permission to grab the texts from the server which might still be their.By the way I agree with 12 and 26, their isn't much you can do to this kid that's worse than what he's already going through, that doesn't mean you should let it slide, but as others said, piling on more abuse is only going to make it worse. I don't know how good your family life has been but if it isn't like his, you just can't really understand his mindset. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416297/#p416297 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) . You must remember that everything I am saying was told to me by my friend, so is it 100% accurate? Well she doesn't lie, but no, that doesn't mean it is 100% accurate. Not from me saying it anyway.I do need to point out however, that his sister is not like this. Acording to my friend she is nice. So a good question for the police is what is making him act this way but not his sister? Getting an interview with the sister will help them a lot, since she knows her brother more than anyone else at school URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416273/#p416273 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I know it sounds fishy, that's why I am fearful in the first place. But I can't think about that anymore. I know I have some explaining to do, and possibly go through trouble because of that, but what's done is done. I have to move on and confront that when I tell them. Yes, kid is in middle school, same school as her. His parents smoke and drink a lot, so that will definitely contribute to the situation. However, substance abuse doesn't always a people, I know some people who's parent or parents have the issue but they are not like this. If the kid needs help then I hope they get him help. I just want her to be ok, and him to get an outcome to help him. As for recording, this is a self defense method, it is legal. If you feel threatened, you are allowed to get it on camera. But I think talking to the school about setting up cameras in that area should be discussed first before she starts recording. As of today, she is already at school and I think there is test, so she would have to record today and then tomorrow talk to them about caeras along the bus route. maybe seeing cameras is enough to deter him. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416272/#p416272 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Oh they'll deal with it. It's true that you can't legally charge a child, but there are even exceptions for that. For one thing, if a child murders someone, given age and the like, they can rule in the courts to proceed with his trial as if he were an adult, so anything he would face, he would face the adult sentence. Also, they can throw him in a juvenile detention center, commonly called juvi, or juvenile hall. Also sometimes you can be sentenced to juvi until you're 18. In some cases, if it is a bad crime, you can be sentenced to juvi until 18, then from juvi to the penitentiary.Also parents can be held legally responsible for the crimes their children commit. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416264/#p416264 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Middle school is approximately 12-14 years of age. Seventh through ninth grades, roughly, in Canada and the United States.And Zarvox, here's the deal. If you knew it would hurt evidence but told her to do it anyway, the very first thing they're going to ask you is this: "If you knew it'd make things worse, why did you suggest she do it?". Because that sounds fishy on its own. I'm not saying it is, but it definitely sounds that way. And the reason given, "I didn't want her to have to read them anymore" is...not all that strong, to be perfectly straight about it. This is the one part of this situation that doesn't really make a ton of sense to me.Whatever the case, though, I maintain my previous stance, and the best thing you can do going forward is to be strong and to be truthful. Do be careful about trying to get your friend to record her trips to the bus stop, however. Legal gray areas there, if stuff happens. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416265/#p416265 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Oh, middle school, that's the US equivalent of primary school in Britain right? As in up to 12? I don't know about the law in the US, but if this kid is under a certain age, he might not be prosecutable and the police will be powerless other than to talk to parents. I had a problem with kids that were around that age. It sounds pathetic, but I'm totally blind, so there wasn't much I could do to stop them throwing stuff at my house and giving me abuse. The police told me they took hate crime very seriously, but it would be hard to prove that it was hate crime, and that they couldn't prosecute kids under a certain age. They seemed a bit useless to be honest. What stopped them in the end was my neighbours identifying the families of some of the main offenders, and the local housing authority who owned their homes threatening them with eviction if they didn't get their kids in line. It wasn't just me they were bothering. My elderly neighbour moved house because of the harrassment, and they were responsible for a lot of vandalism and petty crime. What I'm saying is if this kid is too young to be prosecuted, the only thing that might work is consequences for the parents. They're the ones who exercise greatest control over kids this age. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416262/#p416262 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Oh, middle school, that's the US equivalent of primary school in Britain right? As in up to 12? I don't know about the law in the US, but if this kid is under a certain age, he might not be prosecutable and the police will be powerless other than to talk to parents. I had a problem with kids that were around that age. It sounds pathetic, but I'm totally blind, so there wasn't much I could do to stop them throwing stuff at my house and giving me abuse. The police told me they took hate crime very seriously, but it would be hard to prove that it was hate crime, and that they couldn't prosecute kids under a certain age. They seemed a bit useless to be honest. What stopped them in the end was the community identifying the families of some of the main offenders, and the local housing authority who owned their homes threatening them with eviction if they didn't get their kids in line. It wasn't just me they were bothering. My elderly neighbour moved house because of the harrassment, and they were responsible for a lot of vandalism and petty crime. What I'm saying is if this kid is too young to be prosecuted, the only thing that might work is consequences for the parents. They're the ones who exercise greatest control over kids this age. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416262/#p416262 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I just wanted to ask if the boy who is threatening and targeting her is also in middle school like she is? I don't want this to come off in a way that might be offensive, but it seems that, given the information you've written about the problems with his family, that his behavior is a result of those problems. I don't know how dysfunctional his family is, but what he probably needs the most is time with a professional. I'd have to agree with what others have already touched on. Taking a solution like the third one has a lot of potential for backfiring. Not only might it make the situation worse, but it could get other people involved, like members of his own family, who'd want to take matters like the ones you are suggesting. Not only that, but if you do take the situation to authorities, doing anything from the third solution could put you in a less than favorable position with them. I agree that you shouldn't have too much faith in the school handling things completely on their own, so both solutions 1 and 2 sound great. Keep a record of any response the school gives you in case they don't deliver, and if necessary, take it to the police. Making posts online to try and raise awareness about the situation would be a nice motivator for the school due to the threat of media attention. The best case would be to get the child some form of counseling so no other students have to worry about this.Edit: I wasn't sure about something I wrote, so I was looking into information about it, and it appears that it's perfectly fine to take the situation to the police if the school is not willing to come up with a solution that handles the situation. (which I'm not expecting) Harassment and assault are still offenses in a school setting, so legally it will be taken seriously. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416253/#p416253 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I just wanted to ask if the boy who is threatening and targeting her is also in middle school like she is? I don't want this to come off in a way that might be offensive, but it seems that, given the information you've written about the problems with his family, that his behavior is a result of those problems. I don't know how dysfunctional his family is, but what he probably needs the most is time with a professional. I'd have to agree with what others have already touched on. Taking a solution like the third one has a lot of potential for backfiring. Not only might it make the situation worse, but it could get other people involved, like members of his own family, who'd want to take matters like the ones you are suggesting. Not only that, but if you do take the situation to authorities, doing anything from the third solution could put you in a less than favorable position with them. I agree that you shouldn't have too much faith in the school handling things completely on their own, so both solutions 1 and 2 sound great. Keep a record of any response the school gives you in case they don't deliver, and if necessary, take it to the police. Making posts online to try and raise awareness about the situation would be a nice motivator for the school due to the threat of media attention. The best case would be to get the child some form of counseling so no other students have to worry about this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416253/#p416253 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I am aware it might be a scam, but I know my friend very well, and she knows me very well. But I have taken that possibility into account. There is one person who has done it to me before, but it was outragiously false and I was too dumb to realize. I'm not dumb anymore. It is very hard to move on after making a big mistake like this, but I need to. Was it big? Yes. Have I put things at risk because of it? Yes. But should I give up from a mistake? No. I need to reach out, even though it is difficult. I wil also mention to her to start recording her trips to the bus. I hope she does not get asulted again, never would I wish that. But if it does, it needs to be on recording. She just needs to have her phone out of her pocket when he does it. At this point, I can only hope the texts can still be used as evidence. I think the thing I need to realize is that in a lot of cases, perfect evidence does nto exist. I think I am trying to tell myself that evidence has to be perfect or it doesn't count. The good old, all or nothing attitude. So I am going to change that attitude, and continue to help with what I can, asking some people along the way, maybe even reaching out to y'all on the forum some more too. Thank you to everyone who has helped me with this issue thus far. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416246/#p416246 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I am aware it might be a scam, but I know my friend very well, and she knows me very well. But I have taken that possibility into account. It has happened before, but it was outragiously false and I was too dumb to realize. I'm not dumb anymore. It is very hard to move on after making a big mistake like this, but I need to. Was it big? Yes. Have I put things at risk because of it? Yes. But should I give up from a mistake? No. I need to reach out, even though it is difficult. I wil also mention to her to start recording her trips to the bus. I hope she does not get asulted again, never would I wish that. But if it does, it needs to be on recording. She just needs to have her phone out of her pocket when he does it. At this point, I can only hope the texts can still be used as evidence. I think the thing I need to realize is that in a lot of cases, perfect evidence does nto exist. I think I am trying to tell myself that evidence has to be perfect or it doesn't count. The good old, all or nothing attitude. So I am going to change that attitude, and continue to help with what I can, asking some people along the way, maybe even reaching out to y'all on the forum some more too. Thank you to everyone who has helped me with this issue thus far. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416246/#p416246 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I am aware it might be a scam, but I know my friend very well, and she knows me very well. But I have taken that possibility into account. It is very hard to move on after making a big mistake like this, but I need to. Was it big? Yes. Have I put things at risk because of it? Yes. But should I give up from a mistake? No. I need to reach out, even though it is difficult. It has happened before, but it was outragiously false and I was too dumb to realize. I'm not dumb anymore. I wil also mention to her to start recording her trips to the bus. I hope she does not get asulted again, never would I wish that. But if it does, it needs to be on recording. The voice memos app is enough to record it. No indication of recording, and the screen can be locked. She just needs to have her phone out of her pocket when he does it. At this point, I can only hope the texts can still e used as evidence. I think the thing I need to realize is that in a lot of cases, perfect evidence does nto exist. I think I am trying to tell myself that evidence has to be perfect or it doesn't count. The good old, all or nothing attitude. So I am going to change that attitude, and continue to help with what I can, asking some people along the way, maybe even reaching out to y'all on the forum some more too. Thank you to everyone who has helped me with this issue thus far. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416246/#p416246 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) @post 23 I would never lie. I would never give them anything but 100% truth. And I was aware at the time that having her delete them would tamper the evidence, I was aware. And telling them that will help me a lot. I would never anything but 100% truth, even if it is a big mistake like this one. I am working with her, and that requires truth and truth only, and lying to a police officer is something you never want to do, even if it is a white lie. I am well aware of that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416248/#p416248 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I am aware it might be a scam, but I know my friend very well, and she knows me very well. But I have taken that possibility into It is very hard to move on after making a big mistake like this, but I need to. Was it big? Yes. Have I put things at risk because of it? Yes. But should I give up from a mistake? No. I need to reach out, even though it is difficult. account. It has happened before, but it was outragiously false and I was too dumb to realize. I'm not dumb anymore. I wil also mention to her to start recording her trips to the bus. I hope she does not get asulted again, never would I wish that. But if it does, it needs to be on recording. The voice memos app is enough to record it. No indication of recording, and the screen can be locked. She just needs to have her phone out of her pocket when he does it. At this point, I can only hope the texts can still e used as evidence. I think the thing I need to realize is that in a lot of cases, perfect evidence does nto exist. I think I am trying to tell myself that evidence has to be perfect or it doesn't count. The good old, all or nothing attitude. So I am going to change that attitude, and continue to help with what I can, asking some people along the way, maybe even reaching out to y'all on the forum some more too. Thank you to everyone who has helped me with this issue thus far. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416246/#p416246 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I don't think you can blame yourself for having her delete the messages. It's not your fault for just innately knowing how to deal with a problem like this. Yes, you could very well have screwed up the chance for direct evidence, but just tell them everything that happened, your involvement in it, your reasoning for doing what you did. They're going to find it all out at some point anyway, so just be 100% straight with everything you tell them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416245/#p416245 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) You still need to help your friend open this up to the appropriate people (parents, school, authorities, etc). The best thing you can do, if this happens, is to own your part in it. Mention that you deleted the texts (or had her do it, rather). Ask about message recovery software, which will hopefully exonerate you.That being said, there is one thing I have to say here, and you aren't going to like it. I'm not saying I believe this next bit, but it bears consideration:On the very, very outside chance that any or all of this is some sort of scam to screw over an innocent, you're going to be in a world of hurt if it gets out, and so is she. If that ends up being the case (either because you already know, or because you find out about it), the best thing you can do is get the hell away from it and -not escalate it. But if it only comes out as a scam after you make it public - in other words, she's hoodwinked you and you fell for it - you need to just tell the straight truth.Again, I am not saying this is what I believe. I don't believe this at all at this point, in fact. I'm bringing it up because it is a possibility. I don't know you or your friend and I do not want this to be the case for either of you. But accusing someone of stuff in order to get them in trouble, when they're either wholly innocent or have dodged punishment before, is really not the way to go about things. That's literally all I'm saying here.I hope, for everyone's sake, that this is taken seriously and that everything comes out in the end. If the dude messages her again, try and get your friend -NOT to delete any of that message history. Ask her not to look at it, maybe, or to not dwell on it, but deleting it was a bad mistake in a case where you may very well require that information for action to be taken. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416241/#p416241 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I am so nervous. I shouldn't have made her delete them, even if I knew she was going to dwell on them. And even worse, she can look at them, from this topic, so there was no point in the first place, I didn't think I would post about it. If we can get them recovered, then we will do our best. But, if we can not, I hope to justice that I can be proven innocent and these texts can be used as evidence against him. I directly copied and pasted these messages from her, and she directly forwarded them to me. So no characters have been aded or removed to the texts. Also, I still have all of the messages she sent to me backed up, so it does show on my end the first 5 that she sent to me. I think she still has the rest in our conversation, and maybe the rest in his conversation. I am really nervous that I have destroyed this evidence and that I might be considered a suspect. I know this is selfish thinking and this problem isn't about me, but I am worried about my part in this situation too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416231/#p416231 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I am so nervous. I shouldn't have made her delete them, even if I knew she was going to dwell on them. And even worse, she can look at them, from this topic, so there as no point in the first place, I didn't think I would post about it. If we can get them recovered, then we will d oour best. But, if we can not, I hope to justice that I can be proven innocent and these texts can be used as evidence against him. I directly copied and pasted these messages from her, and she directly forwarded them to me. So no characters have been aded or removed to the texts. Also, I still have all of the messages she sent to me backed up, so it does show on my end the first 5 that she sent to me. I think she still has the rest in our conversation, and maybe the rest in his conversation. I am really nervous that I have destoryed this evidence and that I might be considered a suspect. I know this is selfish thinking and this problem isn't about me, but I am worried about my part in this situation too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416231/#p416231 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Yeah, I'm an idiot, because I already had her delete the conversation from her phone because I knew she would look at the texts and dwell on them. So yes, I kind of fucked myself over for that. However she sent them to me, but I had her delete some of those too. So if we were to try using these texts so far, athorities would think I made them up since I am the main carrier of them. Yes, I know, I fucked up. I did a lot. I even told her that doing this would delete primary evidence, but made her delete them anyway. I'm sorry. I don't want to be in this stress because I made that decision. It put her and me in a bad place. Do you know how hard it will be to convince them I did not write these texts? Or she didn't? There is message recovery software, but she does not have a mac or windows, so we need to get her to someone who does, and try restoring the original messages, so that way the evidence can be there again, because I've seriously fucked up. And it's decisions like this that make me horrible with helping. We could have them on her phone logged starting now, but that would not look good on me still, because they would think that I started it. But she did give me his number, so that is proof that it is not a secondary number I could have used. I guess you could say I have tampered with the evidence, fuck me for it, but do you think I am convince them I or she did not write these? She might have the last 2 or few messages from his conversation still, I hope so, but the first 5 for sure are lost on the original conversation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416224/#p416224 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Yeah, I'm an idiot, because I already had her delete the conversation from her phone beause I knew she would look at the texts and dwell on them. So yes, I kind of fucked myself over for that. However she sent them to me, but I had her delete some of those too. So if we were to try using these texts so far, athorities would think I made them up since I am the main carrier of them. Yes, I know, I fucked up. I did a lot. I even told her that doing this would delete primary evidence, but made her delete them anyway. I'm sorry. I don't want to be in this stress because I made that decision. It put her and me in a bad place. Do you know how hard it will be to convince them I did not write these texts? Or she didn't? There is message recovery software, but she does not have a mac or windows, so we need to get her to someone who does, and try restoring the original messages, so that way the evidence can be thre again, because I've seriously fucked up. And it's decisions like this that make me horrible with helping. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416224/#p416224 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I'm going to double post here because this topic is pretty active, and I don't want this to be lost in an edit.This attacker has done your friend a favor by contacting them via text message. Save every one of those messages, because they are evidence you will need. Keep records of the texts, and if it can be done safely, record other interactions with the individual (keeping in mind that recording can get you into some sketchy legal areas yourself). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416208/#p416208 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I'm going to double post here because this topic is pretty active, and I don't want this to be lost in an edit.This attacker has done your friend a favor by contacting them via text message. Save every one of those messages, because they are evidence you will need. Keep records of the texts, and if it can be done safely, record other interactions with the individual. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416208/#p416208 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I am very much with everyone whose saying to take this to the appropriate authorities, since attacking this individual directly will likely get them to escalate, and unless your friend is (a) a trained fighter, or (b) able to keep someone (or multiple someones) around them 24/7 as backup, they're going to get hurt, possibly badly.That's obviously not what you want to have happen, so going against the attacker directly isn't your best option. Taking the texts to as many people as possible is. This includes parents, school officials, police, and maybe even the media if the issue persists.Also, you probably want to make sure that multiple groups see the messages at once. If the school ignores you, your (or your friend's) parents may not.Additionally, presuming this is in the U.S (other countries are probably similar), I feel it important to point out that at least one, and likely multiple crimes *have* been committed here. Assault and battery (two different things) for sure. If a weapon was involved (I sincerely hope not), it could even be aggravated battery, which is a felony. I'm not as up on my digital crimes and hate speech law, but both of those are possibilities.No matter what you decide to do, do it carefully. Your friend is definitely in physical danger, and you and your other friends may be as well. Think before you act, and make sure you're prepared to handle the consequences of whatever action you take. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416204/#p416204 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) My problem is not that the school won’t take it seriously. My concern is the school won’t take it seriously enough URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416201/#p416201 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) There are 2 cases of physical violence this was before the prick got her number yesterday. His parents smoke and drink a lot. Also he has a twin sister who doesn’t act like this. All this info comes from my friend, not me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416194/#p416194 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) While I see Chris's point about blocking texts, at the same time having a log might help.You might have to go through different authorities. Some schools are better about these things than others, likewise if his parents aren't that bothered talking to them might not help. The thing is, don't accept the situation until there is some resolution, even if you need to get the police involved for it to work out. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416195/#p416195 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Woah! Some people are just... horrible! Picking on someone who is actually less fortunate than you? What a fucker!If you haven't already, contact everyone and get them working together on this. What the hell are his parents doing? Are his parents the reason he's like this? Is mom or dad not present? YOu know, I've noticed a pattern with people like this. Those who are neglected, abused, or have one or both parents not in the picture turn out to be criminals and assholes. Maybe some form of therapy might help, but maybe having a meaningful conversation with his parents might be the best solution here.I don't know what else to say on this as I've never really been physically bullied. If it's a case of sending these truly sickening text messages, just block the asshole and move on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416185/#p416185 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Ok we will try 1 and 2. Any other solutions? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416181/#p416181 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Fighting fire with fire may make a bigger fire, and someone else might just get swept up in the process. Is that really worth the risk? I don’t think so. The easy way is not usually the right way. Go with both one and two as post 2 said. If her parents don’t care, no harm done from what I can see, although this may be mistaken. If they do, that helps. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416130/#p416130 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) If you go with plan #3, you are feeding the problem. You may be the difference between bullying texts and your friend in the hospital. Let's be clear: it will not be your fault if that happens, the bully is the perpetrator and he is responsible for his own actions. But if you truly don't want your friend hurt, then you need to do the things that are most likely to result in positive progress. This means informing her family and the school, and perhaps the local police. This guy might just be having his jollies, but he also might be a physical threat. This is a serious matter, and fighting fire with fire doesn't work. It almost never does in cases like this. It usually just makes everything much, much worse.You will note, I hope, that I am not making excuses for the bully. He's doing these things and needs to answer for them. But you don't do that by trying to get him to feel the same way your friend feels. Inasmuch as that seems like poetic justice, it's really just a matter of you and yours stooping to his level. Were I you, I'd be disgusted by that prospect. At that point, he's making you act like him, and while you might think you have a righteous reason - and maybe you even do - the ends don't justify the means in my opinion. Not here. There are better ways to make this dude answer for the shit he's pulling on your friend, or on anyone else he may be victimizing. Set those things in motion and see if that doesn't help first.Many, albeit not all, people who deal with this sort of thing, who decide to bully others, have far bigger problems going on, and this guy may be no exception. Your friend does not deserve to be bullied, but the bully does deserve to be treated as a human being. This means that if intervention means he is psychologically assessed and given, say, anger management strategies, I think he deserves those things. He's doing some pretty awful stuff, but he is still a person and still deserving of help, if not sympathy for what he's doing. Put another way, it's totally okay to be utterly rock-solid sufirous about what he's doing while simultaneously wondering about his reasons for acting that way in the first place. And that's where I'm at. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416161/#p416161 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) As a person who unfortunately used to be bullied like that before, I can see where you're coming from when you say you want to go with solution 3. But as most people said, fighting fire with fire only creates bigger fire. I'd probably do that if I was little and got stuck in the same situation (I used to solve things by fighting back physically). But I don't think it would make him stop no matter how hard you try. In turn, he may want to bully her more, even though what you say may make him pout. He need professional help, sure and fast. If you can't get his family to do shit then go for solution 1 and 2, then inform teachers and even better, school counselors if the school has any. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416160/#p416160 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) If you know someone who could knock seven shades of shit out of this guy, he would very likely stop picking on your friend immediately. But as others have said, the trouble is he'll likely transfer his malice to someone else who doesn't have friends and make their lives even worse. He may even transfer his nastiness to a defenseless animal or something of that nature. If those texts are genuine and not dramatisations, show them to all authorities: teachers, parents, police. The authority figures are better placed to keep this guy in line in a more effective way than just bullying him back. If the authorities prove to be ineffective, as they sometimes do, then sure, go for plan B, and do whatever it takes. Though I don't think just sending him texts will work. He'll probably just revel in the attention like all trolls. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416152/#p416152 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) you might want to go combine and salutions 1 and 2, and go with itas others says fighting fire with fire, creates a bigger fire, and that burns evrything around it URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416153/#p416153 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) If you know someone who could knock seven shades of shit out of this guy, he would very likely stop picking on your friend immediately. But as others have said, the trouble is he'll likely transfer his malice to someone else who doesn't have friends and make their lives even worse. He may even transfer his nastiness to a defenseless animal or something of that nature. If those texts are genuine and not dramatisations, show them to all authorities: teachers, parents, police. The authority figures are better placed to keep this guy in line in a more effective way than just bullying him back. If the authorities prove to be ineffective, as they sometimes do, then sure, go for plan B, and do whatever it takes. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416152/#p416152 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) If you know someone who could knock seven shades of shit out of this guy, he would very likely stop picking on your friend immediately. But as others have said, the trouble is he'll likely transfer his malice to someone else who doesn't have friends and make their lives even worse. He may even transfer his nastiness to a defenseless animal or something of that nature. If those texts are genuine and not dramatisations, show them to all authorities: teachers, parents, police. The authority figures are better placed to keep this guy in line in a more effective way than just bullying him back. If the authorities prove to be ineffective, as they sometimes do, then sure, go for plan B, and git hit him hard. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416152/#p416152 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) If you know someone who could knock seven shades of shit out of this guy, he would very likely stop picking on your friend immediately. But as others have said, the trouble is he'll likely transfer his malice to someone else who doesn't have friends and make their lives even worse. He may even transfer his nastiness to a defenseless animal or something of that nature. If those texts are genuine and not dramatisations, show them to all authorities: teachers, parents, police. The authority figures are better placed to keep this guy in line in a more effective way than just bullying him back til he leaves your friend alone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416152/#p416152 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) The school is useless. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416141/#p416141 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) He's not a f**king man May I please post this story and maybe we could rally support behind this girl. those texts are sick and there is some things I would like to say but I'm not going to say them lets just say if he was a little older I know of many persons who would teach him a lesson about picking on a girl. Reading those text really did make me have a little tear in my eye because I know what it was like to be bullied in middle school. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416140/#p416140 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Hello,While I understand the situation very well as we’ve had similar cases in our school which occurred with sighted people as opposed to blind counterparts, there is one quite important thing to be pointed out:1. Taking harsh decisions on a hard offender will not make him a defender, which in tern will drive him to stop, but will turn him into a greater offender and he’ll start doing the same with other people.The solution I would propose here is collaboration. At this stage, it is vital to have a close collaboration of all the components that make up the school such as the head teacher whom you call a principal in primary school, the students and a trained psychologist who will manage and supervise this case. Also, the parents of the student who is a bully should be notified about what is happening, despite their family issues. If they choose not to collaborate, then all the job will pass onto the other components I mentioned above. Communication and collaboration are the two key elements which will help to resolve this issue. If you decide to go directly to punishment and harsh solutions, you will successfully turn that person into a threat to society. I know you and your friends don’t care, also the community does not give a damn at all about what is happening with the guy, but you and the whole community will have to, very soon if you do not act in the right way. And why will you care, by the way?Remember that the person in question has commited a crime punishable by law. He has insulted, disturbed, and threatened another person by using electronic/virtual means of communication. This, by definition, is called bullying and based on the severity of the actions, the case could be taken as a criminal offence and the bully could be arrested. Another quick solution could be suspending the person from school. None of the above solutions will help the bully stop his behavior. In fact, if you as a community choose to proceed this way, you will immediately contribute to the person experiencing increased level of stress, anxiety, and a persistent desire to revenge on his target who in this case is your friend. The guy will not have the opportunity to do that, so he will choose another path: smoking, taking drugs, drinking, speading up on the road, and most likely passing that revenge onto another person. That’s why you have to collaborate as a school. If you allow a problem to continue without any attempt of challenging it, you will contribute to its growth and measure for measure (fire for fire) is not the right direction.Hope this helps. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416137/#p416137 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Hello,While I understand the situation very well as we’ve had similar cases in our school which occurred with sighted people as opposed to blind counterparts, there is one quite important thing to be pointed out:1. Taking harsh decisions on a hard offender will not make him a defender, which in tern will drive him to stop, but will turn him into a greater offender and he’ll start doing the same with other people.The solution I would propose here is collaboration. At this stage, it is vital to have a close collaboration of all the components that make up the school such as the head teacher whom you call a principal in primary school, the students and a trained psychologist who will manage and supervise this case. Also, the parents of the student who is a bully should be notified about what is happening, despite their family issues. If they choose not to collaborate, then all the job will pass onto the other components I mentioned above. Communication and collaboration are the two key elements which will help to resolve this issue. If you decide to go directly to punishment and harsh solutions, you will successfully turn that person into a threat to society. I know you and your friends don’t care, also the community does not give a damn at all about what is happening with the guy, but you and the whole community will have to, very soon if you do not act in the right way. And why will you care, by the way?Remember that the person in question has commited a crime punishable by law. He has insulted, disturbed, and threatened another person by using electronic/virtual means of communication. This, by definition, is called bullying and based on the severity of the actions, the case could be taken as a criminal offence and the bully could be arrested. Another quick solution could be suspending the person from school. None of the above solutions will help the bully stop his behavior. In fact, if you as a community choose to proceed this way, you will immediately contribute to the person experiencing increased level of stress, anxiety, and a persistent desire to revenge on his target who in this case is your friend. The guy will not have the opportunity to do that, so he will choose another path: smoking, taking drugs, drinking, speading up on the road, and most likely passing that revenge onto another person. That’s why you have to collaborate as a school. If you allow a problem to continue without any attempt of challenging it, you will contribute to its growth.Hope this helps. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416137/#p416137 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) I empathize with your anger and frustration. Those texts are sickening.But solutions 1 and 2 are the best way to go. Notify every authority figure you can about this situation, and don't stop talking until someone listens.Thank you for standing up for your friend. That takes courage and character. Just don't let this bully pull you down to his level. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416134/#p416134 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) @Zarvox firstly, yes, I gather your annoyed about this, and want to do something, but unfortunately the situation needs looking at in a logical way, since going off half cocked or trying something out that doesn't work is likely to have the opposite effect. Its common in the media and other places to portray bullies as cowards and give the idea that if people just stand up to them they will run away. This however isn't true. Most people who do vile things do so simply are convinced of their own rightness. This isn't to say people can't change or be made to change, just that you can't "fight fire with fire" as you put it and expect anything come of it but a doubling down from the other side. What is likely to happen if you got a bunch of people to send threatening text to this scuzbag or victimise him in another way, is that either he will get his friends together and retaliate in kind, escalate his intimidation tactics towards girl your friends with, or indeed go to the authorities himself and claim that he is the victim. Believe me, I have experience of this sort of thing myself. The best thing your friend can do is make a log of the texts and present them to the school with an account of this boy's other behaviour, and if the school refuse to act go to the police, indeed there has been a recent crackdown generally on cyber bullying and stalking which should go in her favour.I know its not exactly the most dramatic thing to do or the solution you want to hear, but in terms of actually stopping the situation its got the most chance of working and actually stopping things, rather than just causing further trouble. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416132/#p416132 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) Fighting fire with fire may make a bigger fire. Is that really worth the risk? I don’t think so. The easy way is not usually the right way. Go with both one and two as post 2 said. If her parents don’t care, no harm done from what I can see, although this may be mistaken. If they do, that helps. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416130/#p416130 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Re: Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) While it might be tempting to go with solution three, there is the possibility that it won't help things at all. It may in fact just make things worse. There's every chance that he doesn't care what people say to him, and he could just use it as an excuse to keep bullying. If you feel that this girl is truly in danger, then fighting fire with fire could increase that danger. You can't fix a psychological problem simply by subjecting someone to what they're doing to other people in most cases. This guy sounds like he needs some serious professional help.So what should you do? I would recommend both solutions one and two. The school needs to know about this, and even if the parents have problems, they need to know too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416124/#p416124 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Help with hazing issue (may get controversial)
Help with hazing issue (may get controversial) This is going to be a very long and drawn out post, and quite a controversial topic. Below I will describe the situation, the solutions so far, and then messages at the end.Before I begin, I want to point out that yes, I do have a personal opinion about which solution I prefer, but I asked her what she prefers and she does not know. I also asked her for permission to post this, and sent her the whole post before submitting, so do not think I am posting this without checking with her, or trying to give a solution that I did not talk to her about. I have an opinion, she is not completely sure about which solution she likes best and that is ok.I have a friend who is in middle school. She is completely blind. There is a boy at school who enjoys hurting people due to family issues. Sometimes when she is walking to the bus after school he targets her. He has hurt her twice, and now has her phone number and has been sending threatening texts. So far her brother and I are the only ones who know, her brother is in high school, I am in high school and a different state. Her parents do not know yet, We haven't told them yet, but now that the boy has her number and is sending threatening messages we are considering telling them. Here are the solutions we have thought of.Solution 1: tell her mom or dad and have them talk to the school about getting a police officer to walk my friend to the bus everyday, and maybe keep a distant eye on her in other parts of the day, but not enough to violate her space. My analysis, I don't think the school would take it seriously enough unless they saw the messages, but I do not know what would happen beyond that.Solution 2: have her parents get one of his parent's contact info and talk to them about his behavior. My analysis, I was informed by my friend that his parents wouldn't care since they have a few problems.Solution 3: Here is where the controversy starts. Before you immediately reject this solution, think about the next paragraph, and the messages at the end.Gather a bunch of people together to spam and say basic negative things. My friend found out that the simplest phrases make him pouty. So getting like 10 or 20 people to text him simple phrases and spam him will teach him to leave her alone.Why I choose solution 3.I don’t care what his problems are. Ok? I don’t care. If he wants to be irresponsible and not control his problems and wants to hurt people and bully them then there is no shame in pushing him down ourselves. There is no shame in making him hate himself. There is no shame in teaching him not to fight fire with fire. There is no excuse. I don’t care what problems, if he does not control himself then he deserves to pay for it so he does learn. He deserves it. There are limits to someone’s responsibility and actions, and this is beyond those limits, this goes passed them. So I do not have any shame in fighting fire against fire if that's what he wants to do.And some may argue, he can't help it. He has issues that he can't deal with properly. And I call complete bullshit on that, you know why? Because I know a woman who has had nothing but problem after problem, with more problems, and more problems pile and pile on top of her, but she is one of the most loving and caring people on this earth. She is still fighting every challenge with a strong mind and healthy heart. I will not describe the issues here but they are absolutely devastating. So if she could stay strong from battling teenage years to her 40s, then what excuse does this boy have? Tell me, what excuse does this boy have to hurt people, if that woman has struggled all her life with multiple situations at once but she has never had the thought of hurting another human? Parents guidance or not, there is no excuse, and, sometimes the only way to learn is to be treated the way you want to treat other people. I'm sorry, but sometimes there is only one way out, and it is the way they came in.If you think he doesn't want to act this way, that he doesn't know how to act differently, then this will open his eyes and make him realize it hurts to hurt people. And that will give him a chance to turn himself around, and my friend despite being hurt and bullied would not mind helping him recognize it is an opportunity to change. If he does not actually want to act this way, then good, but this does not make his actions justified or ok at all. He will have to learn the hard way that it is not ok, like I had to learn the hard way to let go of my sight. Sometimes there is no easy way, and when that lesson hits hard, it opens your eyes and gives you the opportunity to turn around. I chose to, so he might want to. I will say it one more time, that does not make these texts ok to send, that does not make hurting people ok, just because he has trouble acting differently than he wants to.If you still want to reject this solution, read the following messages. If you like my
