Very interesting to read. Thanks.
Some thoughts:
Is the repertoire mainly, single line folk tunes?
Do they have accompaniment from other instruments or do other
Waldzithers provide accompaniment?
Do they mainly in C (and F)?
Do they play in ensembles (of Waldzithers)?
What do you think they
Frank Nordberg wrote:
Martina Rosenberger wrote:
..
I'm not sure, if the nowadays Zither is meant,
It can't possibly be. The term Zither wasn't used for the Hackbrett
until well into the 19th century. Before that Zither always meant cittern.
http://www.waldzither.de/dat/histor.html
But
Roman,
This instrument you have on order - what's it like? How is it tuned? Is
there any music for it? Do you
want if for Bellman?
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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Rob MacKillop wrote:
Did the instrument you were looking at have an authentic period stamp of
1758, or was it dated by a curator?
Authentic-looking stamp.
I was under the impression that it was invented by Preston in 1762, but I
can't remember where I read that. It would be nice to know for
Brad McEwen wrote:
Rob:
True. Most likely, but not necessarily. The point was though, that
neither instrument originated in the countries indicated.
Brad
It's not entirely clear where the English guitar originated. Germany is
the usual suspect. But at the time when the
Pedro Caldeira Cabral wrote:
Hi,
Can you read french?
Consult the Methode de Cytre ou Guitthare Allemande de Mr.Abbé
Carpentier, and you will find part of the answer to that problem of
the origins.
Some names of german makers working in Britain:
Remerius Liessem,Frederick Hintz, Michael
Dear Stuart and All:
Could this Zacher instrument have been an older, 17th-century cittern that
was converted by the addition of a new neck and bridge? Or does it appear
to have been entirely constructed in the 18th century?
Cheers,
Jim
It looks like an eighteenth century cittern
I've added a brief picture gallery to my page on an eighteenth-century
cittern in Prague. Just follow the link on the top of the page -
'picture gallery here'.
The photos are just holiday pictures, taken through the glass cases in
the museum and under the sceptical stare of the
Martina Rosenberger wrote:
So in my opinion there is no need of battling about the theory of the
English Guittar responsible for producing the Portuguese Guitar for example.
I wonder why you think there is a 'battle' going on! I think the tiny
minority of those people interested in the
ron fernandez wrote:
Greetings,
I have posted photos on my website of a small Portuguese guitarra I own
(circa 1890) made in Lisbon by João Miguel Andrade and imported into
England by Alban Voigt who published an English language method for
playing the Portuguese guitarra.
I was
Martina Rosenberger wrote:
Dear all,
Eventually I could reach Pedro to speak for himself:
Dear Martina,
Thank you so much for your mails.
I have been too busy lately to reply or come into this somehow useless
discussion.
I wonder why Pedro says this is a useless discussion. And what
Several more at Art Robb's site:
http://www.art-robb.co.uk/EG.html
I just looked again at Ron's Preston.
http://fernandezmusic.com/Images/Andrade%26Preston.gif
That really is a substantial chuck of metal! I do see how it would impact
the sound.
Wonder why the Portuguese neglected to
I think I may have asked this before but I've done more homework this time.
I'm trying to work out how to fret a home-made cittern and I'm having
help from a local maker. He's going to re-fret my instrument - my fret
placements just didn't work. Embarrassingly, I can't remember what
string
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In einer eMail vom 26.10.2006 20:58:40 Westeuropäische Sommerzeit
schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Several more at Art Robb's site:
http://www.art-robb.co.uk/EG.html
Interesting indeed!
The one at the bottom of the page has a lute body. Somewhat
reminiscent of my
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bondi',
Stuart, I'm sorry you can't understand what I meant by zig-zag
development. It's a Taoist concept that means non-
linear, right? With no goal in mind, one is left simply with what is. Not
so difficult to apply to cittern history, is it?
I don't think I
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Stuart,
At the risk of repeating myself again (and boring everyone to death):
I think one of the reasons terms other than cittern were used so often is
that the composers were Italian, for
example, so they used the proper word for cittern in their dialect,
ron fernandez wrote:
Greetings,
I have established a webpage which shows 2 photos of the 1764 Joaquim
Pedro dos Reis Portuguese guitarra (cítara popular) which I took 2
years ago at the City Museum in Lisbon.
The page is located at:
Music wrote:
I played my concert for the English Music Festival, in a small church in
a small village called Sutton Courteney, quite close to Oxford. The
weather was terrible, and many of the roads were flooded. Despite that,
about 40 people turned up to hear a concert dedicated to the
Doc Rossi wrote:
http://www.mezzo-mondo.com/arts/mm/wright/WRJ007.html
original in the St. Louis Art Museum
A good find! The instrument looks very convincing. A Rauche, maybe? But
it's only got 9 pegs rather than the usual eleven (so: 3x2 + 3x1?).
I think she is just holding the
count... I have a photo of a pear-shaped cittern that's in the Haig
which has 8 pegs, strung 2x2 top and the rest single.
You mean the usual 10, don't you?
Yes indeed!
On 12 Nov 2006, at 11:40, Stuart Walsh wrote:
Doc Rossi wrote:
http://www.mezzo-mondo.com/arts/mm/wright
Doc Rossi wrote:
One more and I'll stop:
http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/steen/p-steen8.htm
No, keep going, Doc.
Presumably this pic is stuffed to the gunnels with symbolism. There's a
spooky-looking sunflower in the background. Doesn't augur well.
Anyway, the boy(?) citternist seems to have
http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/steen/p-steen8.htm
I wonder what the cittern is meant to represent?
I had come across this image before. I forget on which site I had
seen it, but the notes to it stated that the picture is full of
sexual overtones -- the cittern meant to evoke the image
I guess that's why I'm stuck spending time on all this old, outdated
stuff rather than pick up my guitar and play some money into my pocket.
Even a humble little thing like this catalogue has so many intriguing
questions to ask and so many stories to tell - often stories that don't
Steve Schaper wrote:
Sounds a lot like the Ukrainian national instrument, the name of which
escapes me at the moment.
No it's definitely one of these things:
http://www.studia-instrumentorum.de/MUSEUM/ZISTER/0632.htm
I've come across a few of them from time to time, illustrated in
I went to the VA in London yesterday - for the first time in years (and
had to leave after about 40 minutes because the musical instrument
section had to be closed down because of short staff! This on a Saturday
morning.)
There is an instrument in with the citterns, from c.1780 and it's from
Yer the boss(es), I don't know. I just happened to come across it the other
day (and looked it up) because it was listed as being played on one of
Vittorio Ghielmi's CDs, he playing lyra-voil (scordatura tuned) and his
partner (who usually plays lute) playing a ceterone. The combination
Doc Rossi wrote:
The cetera in Corsica didn't just come out of nowhere and does have a
long history prior to the 1970s. The earliest music I know of is the
Stefano Allegrini ms of 1720, but there are others who know more
about this than I do.
This is completely new to me. Any
Doc Rossi wrote:
No, I'm just complaining about the narrow-minded point of view so
often seen in Grove. I've done it before...
Indeed.
On Dec 5, 2006, at 5:59 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
I think you confused Mark's quote for mine.
RT
- Original Message - From: Doc Rossi
Before I finish, let me just say I'm surprised there hasn't been any
further revival of the English guitar when compared to, for example, the
lute, as its a wonderful and unique instrument that never quite reached
what it could and unfortunately died before its time.
Best regards
Pedro Silva wrote:
Stuart Walsh wrote:
Do I detect some impish humour here?
I don't think you do. What leads you to such conclusion?
Well, the surviving repertoire of music for the lute - almost three
centuries from Dalza to Hagen (Straube, even): Da Milano, Dowland
Doc Rossi wrote:
Bonjour!
I had fun last night and have put up the result here:
http://cetrapublishing.com/artists/rossi/hey%20johann.mp3
I hope you enjoy it,
Doc
Ciao.
Very nice sound and performance. Did Carlo Cecconi fret the instrument
in equal temperament - it sounds good
Doc Rossi wrote:
Equal temperament, yes, duet, no. It's a solo.
Impressive.
On Dec 9, 2006, at 3:58 PM, Stuart Walsh wrote:
Doc Rossi wrote:
Bonjour!
I had fun last night and have put up the result here:
http://cetrapublishing.com/artists/rossi/hey%20johann.mp3
I hope
Brad McEwen wrote:
Hi:
Gavin Davenport sent me a link to eBay where there was a Paul hathway
Renaissance cittern for sale. bidding has now ended on that one, but there
is an EG for sale there. It says mid 18th C English Guittar by james Earp.
However, it has a Portugues style
The painter George James was born in London and died in a prison in
Paris in 1795. Here's an illustration of one of his paintings form 1768:
http://www.tuningsinthirds.com/GJames/
A young girl is holding a small English guitar. The instrument looks
convincing. She could cope with peg tuning!?
in Italy for a bit and then London, then Bath and finally
in France.
The caption to the illustration of 'The three Misses Walpole' says,
rather tartly: An example of the charm and talent which James was
capable of displaying if he had not been so idle.
--- Stuart Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
Damien Delgrossi wrote:
Good evening everybody,
Living In corsica and as a corsican guy i know the cetera but i am looking
for videos of different cittern, arch cittern of the world. Where can i watch
some cittern player, does anybody who play can send me a video, wich
repertoire can I
I came across a reference to this site recently:
http://www.klassiskgitar.net/imagesa.html
It's got literally hundreds of illustrations of guitars, lutes,
citterns, mandolins and others. You could spend hours pondering over
them. Here's the English guitar and 'cistre ou
guitthare allemande'
Some while back there was some discussion about the role of the
cittern in Portugal. By request, Pedro Caldeira Cabral sent me a
compilation of information on the The Cittern in Portugal and the
Portuguese Guitar. The page includes an image of a scultpure of an
Angel playing the
A
The way i understand it, the keyboard idea appeared late in the history of
the guittar, 1780s? In the music library at Yale they have an instruction
book for the Piano-Forte Guittar written by Ghillini di Asuni(!) and
published in London, circa 1795, by Longman Broderip. I haven't seen
Doc Rossi wrote:
Still in beta testing and only in Portuguese, but well worth a visit:
http://www.guitarraportuguesa.com/
Some nice links to videos too. I was intrigued by this piece played by
Pedro Caldeira Cabral:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAxcDqt9GqA
It's a pity the site
Don't know why this turned up on the vihuela list! This is a second
attempt to send it to the citttern list.
Alexander Batov wrote:
There is even more to the story. I came across a number of French
cistres
(some with seven-courses) which had watch key tuners without Preston
mark on
: Stuart Walsh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 06 December 2007 20:54
To: cittern@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [CITTERN] Michael Raucher?
I got an enquiry (passed on by Peter) about an English guitar made by
Michael Raucher (and there is an umlaut over the 'u'). I've never heard
of him so I wonder
Martina Rosenberger wrote:
Hi all,
I've found a very rare bite to chew:
http://www.cetrapublishing.com/citterncafe/
a six-course cittern with the sizes of a small 19th cent. guitarra portuguesa,
a 12 string Preston tuner and was obviously changed into a triple strung
mandolin later.
Any
Andrew Hartig wrote:
Hi all,
I just came across a few citterns for sale/sold, including one South
German Hals Zither dated 1663(?) about mid-way down the page. FWIW.
http://members.tripod.com/music_treasures/cittern.htm
-Andrew
There's another one listed here - quote: Halszither,
Doc Rossi wrote:
It's still quite simple, but I have a page on My Space which includes
a sneak preview of the new CD:
http://www.myspace.com/docrossi
Doc
Very nice. Is that a Marella duo?
Stuart
To get on or off this list see list information at
About the influence, we are pretty sure that's corsican cetera is the direct
descendant of italian cetera from 15-16th. The only special thing of
corsican cetera is the 8 courses. All the cetera found had 16 strings during
the 16th (morosaglia) to the XXth century, it never changed. The fret
Doc Rossi wrote:
It worked fine, Stuart. This looks like a Corsican Cetera.
Damien?
Isn't it a (modern)Renaissance cittern? Minus sagittal pegs and carving
of a head or animal.
Stuart
On Mar 7, 2008, at 8:29 PM, Stuart Walsh wrote:
Maybe Doc posted this a while ago or maybe it's
Damien Delgrossi wrote:
--=_NextPart_001_01B1_01C88B2E.A7534D70
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=Windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ma Carte de Visite =C9lectronique VistaPrintGood Morning,
I remembered this morning a discussion I had with a famous french
Damien Delgrossi wrote:
Good morning,
After my request about Virchi, I'd like to know if there is a modern
edition of the Pollet's method and the Charpentier's one.
Damien
There is - somewhere in existence - an expensive collection of
facsimile editions of early guitar tutors and
Damien, I'm sure other people will disagree with me, so I'll send this
to the cittern list! (also: the 'crwth' is a bowed instrument, not plucked)
Damien Delgrossi wrote:
I am suprised to read you saying that UK doesn't have plucked
instruments traditions. What about banjos? and pictures
Doc Rossi wrote:
Related to this topic, there will be an article about the influence of
art music on traditional music in the Summer 2008 issue of Fiddler
Magazine [ http://www.fiddle.com/ ], written by Andrew Kuntz, who is
responsible for The Fiddler’s Companion website.
Hi all,
New member here, I play classical guitar but came across some english guitar related info and was kindly redirected here by Rob McKillop.
What's the evidence on the english guitar being popular in the Netherlands in
the 1770s and/or being used for song accompaniment?
J.Swarts
Message - From: Damien Delgrossi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: cittern list cittern@cs.dartmouth.edu; Stuart Walsh
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:43 PM
Subject: [CITTERN] Re: pics of 18th century German cittern and French
'theorboed arch-cittern'
Hi all,
A corsican luthier
Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Could anyone kindly let me have copies of contemporary arrangements (ie c 1772)
for 'English' guitar of music from 'The Brickdust Man' by Charles Dibdin (1745
- 1814). Preferably facsimile but anything welcome!
Martyn Hodgson
A quick glance at the BL's online
I've been hunting through 19^th-century Scottish newspapers, and found
the following interesting snippet:
LONDON TUESDAY, MAY 15, 1849
The Prussian Minister and Madame Bunsen entertained last Friday at
dinner the Duchess of Sutherland, the Duke and Duchess of Argyle, the
Frank Nordberg wrote:
Starting yet another thread on this topic... ;-)
I've had a closer look at Bellman's cittern and also re-read Michel's
article on the Hamburger citrinchen and here is what I've found so far:
1. Tuning
The Moravian GCEGBE tuning Andrew Rutherford asked about, is
A very interesting thread. Just expressing a few doubts here!
The Moravian Archives in Betlehem, PA. They have a c. 1750 book with
chorales in tablature for that tuning and also a lute-cittern from the
same time period. Andrew Rutherford posted a message about it on this
group about a
Frank Nordberg wrote:
I got a reply from Britta Peterson at the Stockholm Stadmuseum. The
reason why she was unable to answer right away turned out to be that
the musueum don't actually own the cittern. They have it for a long
time from another museum (the Swedish Historical Museum) and was
On his cittern ning website:
http://cittern.ning.com/profile/TimoPeedu
Timo Peedo has photos of 3 different citoles.
citole 1 (photos 3 and 4): looks like a reconstruction of the British
Museum (Warwick Castle 'gittern') instrument - but simpler. Kate
McWilliams was at the last Early Music
Citterns in the Ashmolean. Lots of other plunder in this museum.
http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/cittern/
Stuart
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Some attempts at some pieces:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yquqU2Towi0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwcF8u-LqR0feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWiSoQTKk0ofeature=channel_page
It's a simple instrument with a repertoire mainly for amateurs - but
it's definitely an
Seems to have an odd bridge, but it is difficult to see it clearly. Is
it original?
No I don't think it's original, and it's quite high so it would be
difficult to play with the little finger planted on the soundboard. But
I can't play that way, anyway.
Seriously, Stuart, it really
Andrew Rutherford wrote:
Dear Cittern Bunch,
A while back I put up a notice about a tablature Choralbuch in the
Moravian archives in Bethlehem, PA. It's for an instrument tuned
nominally GCEgbe.
I'm trying to find out how much music there is for citterns in this
tuning. All
Andrew Hartig wrote:
Dear all,
Some time back Andy Rutherford had told us about a manuscript book
(BMB4) in the Moravian Archives of Bethlehem, PA (USA) for 6-course
cittern, tuned GCEgbe. Andy managed to get over there to take some
photos, and after quite a few emails with the folks at the
Stuart Walsh wrote:
Andrew Hartig wrote:
Dear all,
Some time back Andy Rutherford had told us about a manuscript book
(BMB4) in the Moravian Archives of Bethlehem, PA (USA) for 6-course
cittern, tuned GCEgbe. Andy managed to get over there to take some
photos, and after quite a few emails
Andrew Hartig wrote:
Dear all,
Some time back Andy Rutherford had told us about a manuscript book
(BMB4) in the Moravian Archives of Bethlehem, PA (USA) for 6-course
cittern, tuned GCEgbe. Andy managed to get over there to take some
photos, and after quite a few emails with the folks at the
Frank Nordberg wrote:
I have kept the post where Andrew R. first brught up the Moravian ms.
He said:
There is a book of chorales in tablature from c.1750 in the Moravian
Archives in Bethlehem PA, that may be for cittern.
In other words, he wasn't at that time absolutely sure what instrument
I'm assuming that the sentence in the intro to Moravian Choralbuch, here:
http://www.cittern.theaterofmusic.com/musicfiles/index.html
The manuscript and its music may not be reproduced or published without
the consent of the Moravian Archives refers to the music notation, not
attempts - puny
. It's a
generalisation but weren't all plucked instruments tuned by pegs until
the EG (emerging in the 1750s)?
Stuart
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote:
Andrew Rutherford wrote:
Re the cittern
Rob MacKillop wrote:
I've just uploaded my first 'guittar', English Guitar, 18th-century
cittern, cetra video!
[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-KR3yRNjUeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2E
youtube%2Ecom%2Fuser%2FBalcarresGuyfeature=player_profilepage
The poor instrument had lain
I've just uploaded my first 'guittar', English Guitar, 18th-century
cittern, cetra video!
[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-KR3yRNjUeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2E
youtube%2Ecom%2Fuser%2FBalcarresGuyfeature=player_profilepage
The poor instrument had lain unplayed for a few
Frank Nordberg wrote:
I just stumbled across the Telemann biography at HOASM:
http://www.hoasm.org/XIA/XIATelemann.html
It says:
..
by the age of 10 he had teamed to play the violin, the flute, the
zither, and keyboard instruments.
..
No sources are quoted.
Does anybody know anything about
Frank Nordberg wrote:
A connection between Telemann and the mandora is news to me though.
Martyn?
Stuart
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
A little bit is known about Thomas Thackray and his life as a musician
in Yorkshire in the second half of the 18th century. He published
lessons and airs for the guittar (English guitar). His Forty Four Airs'
have simple duets as well as solos. The duet format for English guitar
with a second
.
Stuart
- Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
To: cittern list cittern@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 1:11 AM
Subject: [CITTERN] Thomas Thackray
A little bit is known about Thomas Thackray and his life as a
musician in Yorkshire
Thomas Thackray (of Skeldergate, York) - 'linen weaver and musician' (!)
published music for the guittar in the 1760s and 1770s. There are
records of him playing with other musicians as far back as 1733 (in the
Assembly Rooms in York) but no record of what instrument he played.
Haxby
Stuart Walsh wrote:
Thomas Thackray (of Skeldergate, York) - 'linen weaver and musician'
(!) published music for the guittar in the 1760s and 1770s. There are
records of him playing with other musicians as far back as 1733 (in
the Assembly Rooms in York) but no record of what instrument he
Damien Delgrossi wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260480812480ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:FR:1123
Envoyé de mon iPhone
How much did it sell for, Damien?
The photos were quite dark and it was hard to see details. It looked
like a nice instrument but was it a made from a
Hey Stuart,
I had my 7-course guittar built after reading Bland's book years ago.
There is a 7-course Preston in Paris. I use Ritter's tuning for some pieced
as well - it does make a few fingerings a little more logical. Don't forget
that Oswald suggests tuning in G as well, suggesting that
four quite interesting-looking Duetti. Asuni
published other music, not for guittar.
Stuart
- Original Message -
From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009 3:17 pm
Subject: [CITTERN] D. Ritter and other English guitar things
To: cittern list cittern
David van Ooijen wrote:
Surfacing on this list once in a while: questions about the Nanki
Music Library in Japan. Now they have put some of their books on line:
http://note.dmc.keio.ac.jp/music-library/nanki/
I don't see the mss available yet, but 500 printed works should keep
us happy for a
Apart from a couple of publications for a guittar in A (Marella) and one
or two for a guittar in G, the repertoire for the English guitar/guittar
is in C. And the tutors and instructions all agree on the tuning of the
instrument to a C major chord: c-e-g-c-e-g. Some surviving instruments
even
ro...@cetrapublishing.com wrote:
Nice to hear someone else playing Ritter! I think his music is
interesting, but I also think you're short changing Schumann and
Straube. There is actually quite a bit of writing
that accompanies itself even if, on paper, it doesn't appear so. Have
a play
ro...@cetrapublishing.com wrote:
I can suggest two things to look at to resolve intonation issues. First,
have a look at the nut. Do the
strings lay in the grooves properly? It could be that the top of the nut is
curved or that the grooves are
not cut properly, so that some or all of the
A couple of Scottish tunes from Bremner (1758)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HlQPIP22-s
Stuart
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rEWuClKCD4
A Siciliana by the rather dubiously named Ghillini di Asuni who
published a few books, right up to the late 1780s.
Stuart
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
An Allegretto from Merchi's Dodici Suonate (1765) Sonata III for solo
guitar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFezGHDyvYo
and an Allegro non Tropo [sic] from Noferi's Six Sonatas or Lessons for
the guitar (c1775)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojh60MFFAoM
Stuart
To get on or off this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbRPlJxGbXw
Stuart
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
On 21/06/2011 16:03, Claudia Finke wrote:
[1]http://www.finke-family.de/images/Cister.jpeg
Hello everyone, I am new here - my name is Claudia and I'm from
Germany.
I now have the above citter, which is a handmade instrument only used
for the recording of an album. Does anyone
89 matches
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